1 00:00:15,090 --> 00:00:18,810 Hello, I'm Jonathan Kirschner, founder and CEO of Air 2 00:00:18,810 --> 00:00:22,170 Consulting and host of a podcast about leadership. 3 00:00:22,730 --> 00:00:27,130 And this is a show about the mindsets and skill sets that we 4 00:00:27,130 --> 00:00:29,210 need to navigate change and shape better future. 5 00:00:29,210 --> 00:00:35,010 And joining me today are three incredible people who know a 6 00:00:35,010 --> 00:00:40,960 thing or two about leadership. So we have Reed Foz, Alex Wilkes 7 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,600 and Jamie Ramzan. So I'm going to briefly 8 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,760 introduce each of you. Reed has served as CEO of 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,120 National Vision for more than two decades. 10 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,200 Yes, you heard me right, decades guiding it from a modest optical 11 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,200 chain into one of the largest vision care retailers in 12 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,680 America. And under his leadership, the 13 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:09,360 company went public, grew to more than 1000 stores, and 14 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,800 became known for making quality eye care in general, but also 15 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,520 specifically accessible to everyone, so very, very special. 16 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,200 In August, Reed transitioned into the role of Executive 17 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,680 Chairman and continues to provide incredible strategic 18 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,640 support while passing the baton to National Vision's new CEO, 19 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:36,320 Alex Wilkes Woo. All right. 20 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:41,040 So Alex joined the company last year as President after senior 21 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,640 leadership roles at Cooper Vision, SLR Luxottica. 22 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,080 And across those positions, he has earned a very rich 23 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:54,360 reputation for leading both with strategic focus and also real 24 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,880 empathy for customers and patients. 25 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:02,040 By the way, managing those two polarities not, not 100% simple. 26 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:08,479 I'm sure we'll get into that. And joining us today is well is 27 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,120 author and senior executive coach Jamie Ramsden. 28 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,160 In addition to being one of the longest serving coaches on Air's 29 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,800 bench, he's a former CEO himself. 30 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,240 Jamie won the 2021 Coaching Leadership Award at Air, not an 31 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,000 easy award to win. And Jamie's been working with 32 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,400 Reed for the past five years and has also been working with Alex 33 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,880 since May. So we have three CEO's. 34 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,640 If you throw me into the mix, that's four CEO's on one one 35 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:46,920 podcast. And it's just a real pleasure to 36 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:47,600 be together. Guys. 37 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,920 Thanks so much for taking out the time to be on the show. 38 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,840 You got it. Look at looking forward to it. 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,400 Alex, I'm going to direct the first question to you. 40 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,600 All right. You've been, you've been in the 41 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,920 hot seat for four months now in one of the most successful 42 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:03,680 companies in in the market. I mean, we're up over 150%. 43 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:08,320 It's it's amazing. And, and not an easy year if AI 44 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,960 is not your business model, not an easy year for pretty much 45 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,320 every sector. And help us understand, let's 46 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,560 just start, help us understand National vision. 47 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,480 What do you, what do you do and why do we all need to be going 48 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,080 to National Vision for for our eye care? 49 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,040 Perfect. Well, again, thank you for the 50 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,880 opportunity to to share a bit of my experience in the background 51 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,560 and and what we're up to within the company today. 52 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,160 So National Vision is as you said earlier, an incredible 53 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,680 company that scaled over 2 decades. 54 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,000 We have over 12150 retail locations that provide 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,920 optometric services, glasses, contact lenses and I care to 56 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,800 close to 7 million American patients a year delivered 57 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,320 through a network of 2500 optometrists. 58 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:04,520 So we offer a ton of healthcare within the US ecosystem and we 59 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,760 pride ourselves on doing that through providing great value to 60 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,480 our our customers and patients through our series of brands. 61 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:19,040 America's Best is our most, our largest brand with over 1000 62 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,680 doors, Eyeglass World, which is a hyper regionalized optical 63 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,720 retail chain with a good presence in Florida and in the 64 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,920 Southwest predominantly. And then we we also are proud to 65 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,160 to provide optometric services within the military exchanges as 66 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,720 well. It's a, it's a, it's a great 67 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,760 business for us too. So that's the, the kind of 68 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,600 combination of national of national vision. 69 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,560 So think about us as your your quality, high quality, high 70 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,720 value provider of eye care and eyewear throughout throughout 71 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,200 the US. And they hear that right 7. 72 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,920 Million, close to close to 7 million patient encounters per 73 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,880 year. It's, it's absolutely 74 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,520 incredible. And, and just, you know, the, 75 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,680 the power of being able to see and, and, and that gift that 76 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:17,320 that so many of us have and, and to be able to, to help in that 77 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,040 way is just, I mean, at that scale, like it's, it's a, it's a 78 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,040 nice percentage of, of the country, right. 79 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,440 It's a category that resonates with me personally. 80 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,800 I mean, I've, I've been wearing glasses and contact lenses since 81 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,480 I was a teenager. And you know, for for those of 82 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,800 us who have entered the category, you know how life 83 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,400 changing it is to have quality eye care, quality eyewear and 84 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:45,000 the ability to to see clearly. Actually, I'm in 7th grade, you 85 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,360 know, I was getting headaches. I couldn't, couldn't, couldn't 86 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,120 quite figure it out. And, and, and lo and behold, it 87 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,120 was, it was. I just needed some air glasses 88 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:58,520 and probably few other things. But but that's fantastic. 89 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,720 Alex, thank you for, for helping us understand the incredible 90 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,480 landscape that you're that you're immersed in every day 91 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,840 read. You've led the organization for 92 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:11,200 more than two decades. I mean, you basically took it 93 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:17,880 from from infancy to this Goliath of a organization with 94 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,400 an IPO on that journey. Can you bring us on that, that 95 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,000 leadership journey and just like help us understand what it's 96 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,440 like, what it's like to be on a, on A2 decade plus journey. 97 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Well, I. Guess it shows a distinct lack 98 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:32,720 of imagination. Who knows? 99 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,320 But first of all, Jonathan, I want to say I'm really 100 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,320 complimented to be invited on here, especially to, to share 101 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,080 this with, with Alex and with, with Jamie. 102 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,520 Alex, because I just could not be prouder of the work he has 103 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,080 done with National Vision and what he's done in such a time to 104 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,840 make it an ever, ever better company. 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,280 And, and Jamie, because frankly, I've learned so much from him 106 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,440 over the past several years. Jamie, of course, has published 107 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,240 that great book, Let's go. And in it he has a lot of 108 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,960 leadership concepts. I might just reference a few of 109 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,600 those because they were the without knowing the words of 110 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,320 them until I met Jamie. There was a lot of them that 111 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,040 were being demonstrated there. And one of one of Jamie's 112 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,600 concepts is sense making and that the a leader, one of their 113 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,880 core 4 roles. I think Jamie, if I'm 114 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,000 remembering the book right, it's sense making is one of them. 115 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,280 And that's that's understanding where a company is in its in its 116 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,000 development and helping the whole organization to understand 117 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,440 that as as well. So in thinking back on this, 118 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,920 this is the sense making of of all of that. 119 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920 Yeah. I joined the company 23 years 120 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,800 ago. The company had just emerged 121 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,640 from bankruptcy and the company at that time was 400 optical 122 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,400 stores inside Walmart were essentially all the sales and 123 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,800 profits of the company. And within my first month, 124 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,320 Walmart informed me that they weren't planning on renewing the 125 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,040 leases on any of the 400 stores that were providing us all of 126 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,520 our sales and and profits. I call that that was not a good 127 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,920 day. That's a hell of a way to start 128 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,640 a job. Your largest? 129 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,400 So it just emerged from banquet see a mountain of bank post 130 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:25,040 bankruptcy debt and then we are told that in essence we were we 131 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,440 had we were given a death sentence. 132 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,600 Luckily we are going to die over time because each of the 400 133 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,799 stores had a different lease, but we were going to die over 134 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,360 time. So I think of my 23 years as 135 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,840 roughly 7 chapters and the 1st chapter I'd call solving the 136 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,080 problem the problem and we always did it with these they 137 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,400 quotes. The problem was that our 138 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,600 business was going away and and so solving that was finding a 139 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,160 way to find something that would go like this because our current 140 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,800 business was going like that. And you needed it to go like 141 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,920 that faster than it went like that, to not go bankrupt and and 142 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,640 die again. And we always did these hand 143 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,440 motions. It kept it very simple. 144 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,880 And the first stage of this was another one of Jamie's 145 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,960 leadership principles was community building, gathering 146 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,880 around a team because during the bankruptcy, in essence, people 147 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,240 had left her all been fired. So there was almost no 148 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,960 leadership team there. So there was the community 149 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,880 building, trying to attract people to what what they all now 150 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,040 referred to as the company that had no future and and trying to 151 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,040 get a team together with with sort of two strategies. 152 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:37,240 One was 1 was elongate the profit runway to buy ourselves 153 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,320 more time to solve the problem. So finding ways with what we had 154 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:45,960 to get more profit out of it so that we would have a longer time 155 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,560 before we hit a bankruptcy again. 156 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:53,320 And to to find some some growth vehicle that that period went 157 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,440 from 2002 to 2005 and 2005. We managed to attract a private 158 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,440 equity firm who is willing to buy us and buy the America's 159 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,280 Best chain, which at the time was 114 stores. 160 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,880 And I'll say you, you've got a great management team running a 161 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,360 a declining asset. We'll give you a great asset, 162 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:17,240 see if you can grow that. And so then it was a grow these 163 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,000 faster than the Walmart stores die. 164 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,800 So Chapter 2 began when we were when, when the private equity 165 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,400 firm bought us and bought and bought America's Best. 166 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,600 And, and that was about refining the America's Best concept to 167 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,200 make it better and then scaling the heck out of it. 168 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,720 And frankly, we've been scaling it ever since 1st 35 stores a 169 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,560 year, then 55 stores a year, then 50, then, then 75 stores a 170 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:44,720 year. And we did that for the for a 171 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,640 very long time. The 3rd chapter began in roughly 172 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,360 2009. I'd call that the mergers and 173 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,720 acquisition and integration chapter. 174 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,000 During that time we bought the third largest online contact 175 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,960 lens business and bought a chain called Eyeglass World that was 176 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,120 about to go into bankruptcy itself. 177 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,080 So then we had three things going upward and one thing 178 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,240 declining. And during that time also we 179 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,640 convinced Walmart to, to, not to not take back our stores and to 180 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,040 freeze us for a time at 227 stores. 181 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,680 The 400 stores had gone down to that. 182 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,280 So that was the managed care or the the mergers and acquisition 183 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,120 and integration chapter. Then I'd say from 2014 through 184 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,280 2019, it was ever growing sophistication. 185 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,400 We went from a medium sized private equity firm to to KKR, 186 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,240 one of the largest in the world. That raises your level of 187 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,560 sophistication. And then it was preparing to, to 188 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,720 have art to go public and then to learn how to live in a public 189 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,040 mode. And that was ever increasing 190 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,840 sophistication. That was 2014 to 2019, 2020. 191 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,600 Guess what? A new chapter happened. 192 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,920 I don't know whether you remember this global pandemic 193 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,360 that happened in 2020 that, that, that came along. 194 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,160 And, and that was its own chapter in and of itself that 195 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,760 was closing all of our stores, determining how to reopen safely 196 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,240 and then maximizing that experience. 197 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:14,120 Probably our, our, our proudest period throughout all that. 198 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,760 I couldn't be happy with how we did that in 2020 and 2021 where 199 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,520 we are crazy proud. 6th chapter began in 2022 post COVID where 200 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,280 everything was different for our consumers and everything was 201 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,000 different for us. We had the same labor disruption 202 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,080 that everyone else was having. We had the same disruption of 203 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,320 healthcare providers and our consumers were feeling very, 204 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,520 very strapped. Very, we are very back footed 205 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,920 during, during that time and had to do a lot primarily around 206 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,840 trying to build enough capacity and, and ways to ensure we could 207 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,040 always give people eye exams then it but, but I would say it 208 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:57,000 was a pretty back footed period. Then Chapter 7 came in 2024 when 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,160 Alex and others joined the company. 210 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,360 And that was, I'd say the period of of transformation where we 211 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,880 took a company that had been wildly successful at replicating 212 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,080 a winning concept was no longer winning in the post COVID world. 213 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,320 And Alex and team came along and, and took that foundation, 214 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,920 modernized it and reconceived it for the world that we're living 215 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,280 in now. Those are, those are the, that 216 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,240 was the leadership journey. I, I would say in another 217 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,000 podcast, we could do the same chapters for our philanthropic 218 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,960 journey. That was a totally different 219 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,760 thing, but that's a different story. 220 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,480 I think that answers your question. 221 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,760 Wow. It's, I mean, I first of all, I, 222 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:49,240 I, my sense making is registering that a book should 223 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,440 be written on this. It was it. 224 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,440 Was very nice to have Jamie's book to help put words to a lot 225 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,000 of the concepts we were applying during that time. 226 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:01,880 I'll. I'll. 227 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,440 Say this, I'm really pleased we're doing this podcast, but we 228 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,560 have our sights set on acquired. Like, you know, that's once we 229 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,320 get, once we get an acquired podcast, then we can claim we've 230 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,720 made it. I love it. 231 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,600 I love it. You know, something that I 232 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,520 learned from Jamie because he's, he's provided a fair amount of 233 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,640 coaching whether I've asked for it or not. 234 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,800 And, and, and I consider him seriously as a, as, as a 235 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,280 consiglier. Jamie actually taught me what 236 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,640 that word was. I had to go watch the Godfather 237 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,520 afterwards to, to understand fully what, what that meant. 238 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,000 But you know, as CEO, I mean, I'm sure you all can relate to 239 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,240 this. Like, you know, you, you wake up 240 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,560 every day and you're trying to, you're trying to move the 241 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,840 needle, you're trying to grow the business. 242 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,640 And, and to your point read, it's like, you know, you want 243 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,320 more of this than this. And, and inevitably you, you, 244 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,320 you reconcile that it's impossible that there can't be 245 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,800 this happening concurrently with this. 246 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,960 And you just need more of this than this. 247 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,960 You know, more money and more than than than money going out. 248 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,600 You know, more good things happening in the culture then 249 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,480 then then not great things. And one of the things that that 250 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:21,120 Jamie always reminds me of is that growth doesn't happen in a 251 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,280 straight line, right? Just curious, Jamie, like if you 252 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:27,560 could expand that. I don't know if there's a 253 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:33,760 chapter in Let's Go that kind of aligns to that concept, but 254 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,600 that's always been very helpful for me. 255 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,320 Maybe the? Chapter is expand and contract 256 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,800 because I think when we look at the cycles that surround us in 257 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,360 the nature and in our patterns of our life and in the universe, 258 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,560 very, you know, there is so much more that's cyclical that is, 259 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,720 than is actually linear. And I think that that's when I 260 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,880 think I get people to try and understand if we put the 261 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,080 conditions in place for us to maximize the opportunity when 262 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,400 the cycle is in our favor and minimize the downside when it's 263 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,680 not. And actually there is 264 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,200 opportunity when there's a downside. 265 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,880 But the idea that, you know, we sort of plan for straight line 266 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,280 thinking and then we're shocked by the reality of seeing that 267 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,400 there are variables that are outside of our control and 268 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,320 cycles that are outside of our control. 269 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,200 And so really part of the role of the leader is to be able to 270 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,640 see them clearly and more quickly than other people, and 271 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,080 to adapt more quickly and more clearly than other people. 272 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,680 And to make sense for it, for other people and to make sure 273 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,880 that people, the teams and the organization are aware of the 274 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,040 chapter change, aware of we were doing this. 275 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,960 It worked well. We have moved into a new part of 276 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,320 the cycle. Hey everyone, let's all 277 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,360 recognize that and try to figure out what are the what are the 278 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,560 rules of engagement and the game plan to win now that this has 279 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,000 changed on us. So it's almost like the, you 280 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,880 know, the the CEO in in in this case with but but elite 281 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,880 leadership attribute is it's not just, you know, setting the 282 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,839 vision and just getting people to try to it, but it's, it's all 283 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:14,520 the bumps along the road and then helping people make meaning 284 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,680 of that to to really. And I guess that's when you say 285 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,160 sense making, is that essentially like how do we make 286 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,440 meaning of it? Well, here's what I'd say is, 287 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,640 you know, one of the things I think, and we may have talked 288 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,720 about this recently, but you know, normally the organization 289 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,920 will come to us with what we call in the the coaching world, 290 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,480 the presented problem. So somebody walks in our office 291 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,440 or they knock on the door, they send us an e-mail, they send us 292 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,480 a text saying, hey, here's a challenge that I have. 293 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,480 And it can manifest itself in various different ways. 294 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,760 It can be, Hey, you didn't set us up for success or hey, you're 295 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,840 not being fair with me versus my colleagues or hey, so it can 296 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,040 come in a very presented form in a way that causes us to react. 297 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,680 And actually part of the, the the process of great leadership, 298 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,880 as I see it, or as I try and encourage people to see it is 299 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,040 actually slowing down and understanding what's behind the 300 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,800 presented problem, understanding what's the motivation and then 301 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,600 the sense making is about, OK, we're in this context. 302 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,680 You presented an obstacle that you're expecting me to help you 303 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,120 overcome. And I can help, I can give you a 304 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,240 solution and walk you out the, the door to the presented 305 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,920 problem. But invariably, if we do that, 306 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,240 they'll be back in again or there'll be another request or 307 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,800 will be suboptimal or actually it won't give the results that 308 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,400 we or they're looking for. And so the idea is in this, you 309 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,000 know, in the, in the moments and as a leader, as Aceo, you're 310 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,840 constantly under time pressure. And so when how can you slow 311 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,880 down in order to be able to to have that conversation and to 312 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,280 understand the motivations of others and then make sense for 313 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,680 them is to build this pathway to give them the agency to go and 314 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,720 solve it themselves with some input from you. 315 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,040 And maybe that they came to you because they didn't have they 316 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,080 were missing something that could have been information. 317 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,720 It might have been a network or introduction. 318 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,880 It might have been it resource. It might have been a reframing 319 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,480 of the situation or a sense making that they didn't 320 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,400 currently have. But it may sometimes just be 321 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,840 permission and confidence to go and take the action and they 322 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,280 were going to take. And so if you're able to do 323 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,680 that, I call these the magic moments of truth, the gold 324 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,400 moments of truth, where the organization comes to us in some 325 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,320 way, shape or form with a problem that we feel obliged to 326 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840 fix. And we may fix it at the surface 327 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,480 level and say, OK, it's Dom. But often, invariably, it comes 328 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,520 back to us in a different form. And that's when we realized, oh, 329 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,240 I didn't really see what was going on. 330 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,880 And so I'm encouraging people, I always encourage people to sort 331 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,320 of stock in that moment and say, hey, here's an opportunity to 332 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,920 view, to make sense of this situation for that person and to 333 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,360 build the bridge to connect their work back to the strategy, 334 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,000 the vision, the direction, the wrong. 335 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,440 Jamie I love that. I find personally one of the 336 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,800 hardest things is slowing down because there's just so many 337 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,760 forces. That are pushing you to speed up 338 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,280 right. And it's, it's like one of the 339 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,720 hardest things to wrap your head around as a, as a, as a CEO. 340 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,320 And, and actually, when I, when I work with CE OS and I'm 341 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,200 working with say new time, you know, you know, early on CE OS 342 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:23,000 versus more mature CE OS, one of the distinguishing qualities is, 343 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,880 is this capability of, of knowing how to operate at like 344 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,560 multiple gears and know when to, to like slow down to speed up, 345 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,800 right. Reed, you were going to, you 346 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:35,880 were going to say, well, you just think. 347 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,440 That, you know, we are talking about organizational sense 348 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,960 making and I've, I've, I've always liked the the expression 349 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,400 that heightened self-awareness yields heightened effectiveness. 350 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,680 And I think heightened organizational self-awareness 351 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,320 also yields heightened effectiveness. 352 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,600 But you know, the challenge of being ACEO in a high pressure 353 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,160 situation, so much of it is a mind game just with yourself, 354 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,840 just dealing with your managing your own brain and what it's 355 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,480 doing. And again, This is why it's 356 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,480 great to work with a coach like Jamie is. 357 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,240 You've got someone who, who you can open up to, who you can 358 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,920 share all the good and bad with. And they can. 359 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,920 And it raises yourself awareness and it it is helpful for you to 360 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,600 try to wrap your mind around the, the, the pressures that 361 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,280 it's it's causing for you. Well, that's a that's a really 362 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,560 good segue into something I'm really, really curious about and 363 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,800 that's CEO succession, right. So, so I'm a founder CEO. 364 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,960 I've been founder, I've been CEO for 16 years. 365 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,920 I've said 16 years of muscle memory. 366 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:49,200 If somebody asks me, you know, about air and, and, and about my 367 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,240 life, it's like it actually, it takes a moment for me to 368 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,840 separate the two. My identity is pretty, you know, 369 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,920 wrapped up in, in the business and stuff. 370 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:05,480 I spent a lot of time, you know, at work, but but also like these 371 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,840 decisions and, and a lot of the strategic decisions we made as 372 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,840 an organization. They've they've come from me, 373 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,760 right? I can't imagine not being CEOI 374 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,760 mean, I'm curious for you, Reed, right at like you got, you know, 375 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,880 2 decades of, of, of muscle memory going through those, 376 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:35,080 those 7 chapters, right? What is it been like to hand 377 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,600 over the baton? How? 378 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,920 How do you, you know, make space for somebody else? 379 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:50,920 It is a really interesting journey and has been quite a 380 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,200 learning experience. And as you could imagine, 381 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,080 you're, you're managing yourself because I, I, I think one point 382 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,800 in time you use the word identity and your identity does 383 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:08,200 become sort of sort of enmeshed. There were, there were two sort 384 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,520 of big moments for me in this journey. 385 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:18,560 You know, on the plus side, there were, there was a lot of 386 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,640 longevity and tenure in a lot of folks in the organization, which 387 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,520 says a lot about keeping people and, and memory and that. 388 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,960 And in a, in an, in a time and place when winning was about 389 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,400 replicating winning formulas, that was wonderful because you 390 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,240 wanted people who really understood how to make the 391 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,560 recipe and not to put in things in the recipe that didn't work 392 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,320 and all that. So in and frankly, peak pre 393 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,360 COVID, a lot of success for a lot of businesses was if you've 394 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:51,520 got a winning business model and you can replicate it, well, you 395 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,000 can win. And that was a lot of our 396 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,520 success. The challenge is in a 397 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:01,280 transformational era that can actually hold you back because 398 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:06,400 there are a lot of people who just naturally say, well, can't 399 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,200 we keep doing what used to work? And that's fine, but if it 400 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,320 doesn't work anymore, then it's actually a handicap. 401 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,360 But human psychology is, I wanted the way it used to be, 402 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,560 even if the recipe isn't turning out as well as as it was. 403 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:26,920 So, so I had there was a lot of tenure, a lot of longevity, lot 404 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,200 of dedication in that way, but also many were retiring and 405 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,120 some, it was probably the right moment for to move on because we 406 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,480 had this tension during the, the chapter where the post COVID 407 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,400 chapter where we were backfooted and there was this tension 408 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,040 between do we go forward and transform or do we try to do it 409 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,560 the old way? And, and this was an ongoing 410 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:52,040 tension that, that was one conversation. 411 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,240 The other conversation was with, with Jamie around the same 412 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:01,320 period where he said, you know, Reid, your, your legacy has two 413 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,320 different points to it. Your legacy is about about what 414 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,600 you do until you leave the organization, whether you're CEO 415 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,600 or not. And it's also about what happens 416 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,880 in the aftermath, after your departure and in the 417 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,600 conversation. Of course, great leaders don't 418 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,280 leave, leave organizations that fall apart the day they they 419 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,040 leave. And you know what, what's the 420 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,640 natural instinct of all of us as parents? 421 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,800 You want your children to do better than you do, right? 422 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,840 You don't you don't want to say I was great and boy, my kids 423 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,080 screwed up. They didn't get anything. 424 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,280 You know, you, you want the next generations and, and, and 425 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,200 bearing in mind that your legacy is not about just the time, your 426 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,240 CEO, but the time, the time until you leave the company and 427 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,240 also what happens afterwards. And you know, I think Jack 428 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,200 Welch's image is tarnished by the fact that the company never 429 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,000 did as well afterwards. It didn't go from strength to 430 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,040 strength. Our company, National Vision is 431 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,160 going from strength to strength because they're Alex's 432 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,840 leadership and the, the team he is, he has brought in. 433 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:13,320 But but I'll add one thing it, it has been a journey of in 434 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,520 terms of my own mind managing my maturity. 435 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,920 Like there's a natural feeling of defensiveness, new people 436 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,720 come in and frankly, it's very hard to transform a business if 437 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,160 you've been running it for 23 years or 16 years. 438 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,200 Jonathan just saying because because the thing you think you 439 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,760 fixed two years ago, you bring in some fresh eyes and they say, 440 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,760 wait a minute, that's not fixed. I thought I thought I fixed it 441 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,240 two years ago. Or they come in and there was 442 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,640 something you really believed in and they point out not and you 443 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:53,880 the the maturity comes in A not being defensive and and B 444 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:01,560 encouraging them to transform and and feeling great that their 445 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,960 success is actually also your success. 446 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,480 Although it's their success. It's great, you know, but but 447 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,680 it's a like so much, it's a mind game. 448 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:19,880 But in this period of time, I actually personally am very 449 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,880 proud of that there. You know, I, Jamie and Alex know 450 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,800 I very much like Broadway musicals and the communications 451 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,920 they have. There's a line in there's a song 452 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,320 in Hamilton. It's about George Washington 453 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,880 leaving the presidency and going back to to Mount Vernon and, and 454 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,920 the song is called Teach Them how to Say Goodbye. 455 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:47,320 And, and I'm I'm hoping that there's a little bit of that in 456 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,080 this so. Wow. 457 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,120 Well, first of all, I'm going to have my my podcast staff and the 458 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,480 podcast with that with that song. 459 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,480 So we'll make sure that that gets gets included here. 460 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,800 And by the way. I could only do it if because I 461 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,600 got the the right successor in Alex, who waltzed in with a real 462 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,120 vision, a transformational vision that was a winner. 463 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,240 His first day was a strategy day and he he was not a I'm going to 464 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,840 sit back 90 days and watch. He was a let's go. 465 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,680 He he jumped, he jumped right in and and it things it, it was 466 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,880 great from there. Yeah. 467 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,400 Well, I would, I would actually. So there's so much in what you 468 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,040 just shared read and, and that that piece on maturation, 469 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,240 because you know, you could you go buy a book on CEO succession 470 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,320 and, and there's like, you know, the playbook, but like that 471 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,560 piece on maturation is a internal process of, of 472 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:52,680 essentially like relinquishing ego and aligning yourself to 473 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,080 what's best for the organization. 474 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,960 And it's a really, really hard thing. 475 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,880 I've coached number of leaders, you know, going through a 476 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,840 succession process and when it doesn't work, it's because that 477 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,640 maturation didn't happen. You could follow all the steps 478 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,800 and in any of the playbooks if that maturation piece doesn't 479 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,040 happen in parallel, it just it just doesn't work. 480 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,320 There's a term I use in my head which is called becoming 481 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:27,840 audience. OK, so because Alex is the is 482 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:33,160 the key player right now, he is the player and and I am stepping 483 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,400 back and in most meetings that he's kind enough, he's kind 484 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,800 enough to invite me to most everything. 485 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,360 I try to become audience. I'll I'll share things with him 486 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,960 quietly the two of us, but audience and think of think of a 487 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,240 soccer field. Who's on that soccer field? 488 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,360 The grandparents, they're not out there playing, but they're 489 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,760 actually also, but they are playing an important role. 490 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,640 That kid out there on the field knows his grandparents are 491 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,600 watching and both the kid wants to sort of make the grandparents 492 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,520 proud. And when things aren't going 493 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,880 great, the grandparents can be very soothing. 494 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,880 The grant that that grandparent who is audience on the soccer 495 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,600 field, they're actually playing an important role, being 496 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,680 audience they're but they're not. 497 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,880 They're not the key players in any way, shape or form. 498 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,840 Audience I I love that. Thank you, Reed. 499 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,520 Alex, I'm just curious. OK, so. 500 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:32,800 So you've come into a kitchen with a winning recipe and so now 501 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,040 you have to make and I'm sure so, so there's just tons of 502 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:43,080 legacy and winning recipes. And yet I'm sure there's aspects 503 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,120 of the business that you see like Tariq's point, like there's 504 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,040 things that you see that he doesn't see, right? 505 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,560 How do you do this? Like I want to hear from your 506 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,120 side. How do you decide you know what? 507 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,640 What do we keep the same and what do we preserve? 508 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,840 What do we disrupt or or begin to experiment on? 509 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,640 And how do we manage a transition like this? 510 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,560 Maybe you could help us understand CEO succession from 511 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,720 your perspective. Reed and I have known each other 512 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,120 for quite some time. Like we, you know, I, I was in 513 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,720 the industry, Reed and I were on a, on an industry board 514 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,040 together. So we, we, we knew each other. 515 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:32,720 We were friendly. Reid was a a sounding board to 516 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,640 me as I was thinking about career changes throughout my 517 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,480 earlier tenure. And even though stylistically 518 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,720 Reid and I are different more than we are alike, However, we 519 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,080 share a really strong set of core principles and values. 520 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,000 And I think, you know, even just taking that back when I think 521 00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:00,040 about like, why are transition is worked so well, it is because 522 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,960 of this, this ideal that we have embraced and appreciated each 523 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,600 other's differences. And, and Reed has certainly 524 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,960 embraced my, my kind of leadership and personality 525 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,760 nuances that are, are, I think are, are fairly different from 526 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,760 the stylistic mode of the organization historically. 527 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,800 And that has helped to kind of drive the, the, the business in 528 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,640 a, in a different direction. And so a, a bit of the advantage 529 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,160 I had too, was knowing the national Vision story, both as a 530 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,880 kind of competitor from my previous employer, from a 531 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,400 supplier to National Vision from my previous employer's 532 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,040 perspective. So I, I had a, a strong thesis 533 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,120 coming into the company about what needed to evolve that 534 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,720 wasn't necessarily evolving where we had, as we had coined 535 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,240 it, we were a very strong analog rigid replicator of a winning 536 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,560 recipe. But the consumer had evolved, 537 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:13,600 the needs of the optical category had had evolved and 538 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,160 the, the brand experiences, the, the approach to marketing, the 539 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,440 approach to merchandising hadn't necessarily evolved in a dynamic 540 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,880 way to meet the consumer where the consumer now was in the 541 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:35,680 20/4/2024 time period. So coming into the, the, you 542 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,240 know, the the business, you know, I talked about, you know, 543 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:47,440 change in degrees of of pivot and this was not 180° kind of 544 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,920 turn around situation, but it was a business model that 545 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,040 probably needed a 90° turn of the dial in almost every way. 546 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,880 So Reid and I talk a lot about this rapid modernization of 547 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,880 national vision and some of it is symbolic in nature, but some 548 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,400 of it is bringing in real capability that has helped us to 549 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,199 be faster, smarter, more assertive and ultimately meet 550 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,679 the consumer where the consumer now is. 551 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:21,600 So over the last, you know, 12 months, we've made some some 552 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,760 substantial changes to the leadership team Reid was talking 553 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,760 about. There were, you know, there were 554 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:31,159 people on the on the team that frankly weren't going to be the 555 00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:34,400 right players on the soccer field for this next match that 556 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,800 we were going to play. And I think, you know, one of 557 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:43,239 one of the the leadership lessons learned I've had over 558 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:49,760 the years is, you know, you can identify fairly quickly if you 559 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,159 have a player on the team who can play the game, go forward. 560 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:56,040 And if you have a player that with a little bit of coaching 561 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,440 can contribute. Or if you have a player that 562 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,520 might have all the talent in the world, but is not a cultural fit 563 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,400 for the type of game you want to play. 564 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,560 And make that decision really fast, whether or not those team 565 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,200 members are going to be able to, to continue to play on your 566 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,200 team, go forward because otherwise it's just going to 567 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,840 ultimately slow you down. So coming into this, coming into 568 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,480 this business, I did have a, a fairly clear thesis on the 569 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,080 things that we needed to evolve and in the, in the order that 570 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,320 they needed to evolve. And over the last 12 months 571 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,600 we've been, we've been playing that playbook out. 572 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,080 I love that, Alex. I mean, I, I, I, I took 573 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,160 particular note to the word rapid because sometimes people 574 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,960 will say, right, If you read like the first 90 days or either 575 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,040 there's some philosophies that would say, you know, don't 576 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,440 disrupt the apple cart, you know, on, on, on day one or, you 577 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,840 know, within those first 90 days, like spend that time 578 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,240 connecting, understanding, you know, touring, listening. 579 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,560 But, but, you know, it sounds like that wasn't necessarily the 580 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,720 approach from, from your perspective there. 581 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,640 There was a like part of why this has been successful and 582 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,080 we're seeing such incredible growth right now. 583 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,240 I would argue it might have to do something with this 584 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,160 rapidness. Anything you'd want to elaborate 585 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,520 on there? I certainly. 586 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,640 Think it was an advantage that I came from the industry, right? 587 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,680 That I came from the optical retail industry, that I, I knew 588 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,360 this category inside and, and out, right. 589 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,360 I use this term, I call it the belly math of the business, 590 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,000 which is, you know, if you see, if you see something, you can 591 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,800 immediately internalize it and run it through your belly math 592 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,320 and you know what's going on. And you know, I didn't have to 593 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,840 learn new belly math for this business, right? 594 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,120 I mean, it was, you know, from pretty clear from, from the 595 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,080 trajectory of the business and where there were challenges to, 596 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,280 to rapidly identify where some of the where some of the 597 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,720 challenge exists and where some of the the friction points were 598 00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,760 that needed to be to be addressed. 599 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,520 So that was certainly an advantage in in, you know, 600 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,800 coming in with with a a strong, you know, strong thesis of 601 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,560 things that and the order in which they needed to be to be 602 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,320 addressed. And, you know, I, I don't have, 603 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,080 you know, it's funny. Reed was talking about the seven 604 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,800 chapters and, you know, over the last, you know, couple days in 605 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,840 New York, I've been I've actually been talking to 606 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,880 investors about the eras of the of 2425 and 26. 607 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,680 And you know, I said, you know, you can roughly think of 25 as 608 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,160 think about our business as a chess board. 609 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:54,600 And in 25 we move probably 70% of our chess pieces into the 610 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,440 right position that we wanted the chess pieces to be in. 611 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,760 Of those 70% chess pieces, we probably put 50% of those pieces 612 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,400 in motion to start attacking the things that we wanted to attack. 613 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,920 But there's still another 30% of chess pieces that we have yet to 614 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,320 move and certainly haven't moved in a position to to kind of to 615 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,360 attack it at the moment. But we have our game strategy, 616 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,880 We have our our plan baked of what what that's going to, what 617 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,600 that's going going to look like. So also thinking about, yes, we 618 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,240 did move things rapidly and with urgency, but the team has also 619 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:39,800 built a fairly substantial longitudinal game plan for how 620 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,560 we're going to attack the business over multiple years. 621 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:48,760 And we've been very, very deliberate about ideas that are 622 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,640 additive to the consumer and additive to the business. 623 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,840 But these are some ideas that we're not going to touch and 624 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:01,840 work on until 2026 or 2027 and being disciplined about not 625 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,240 chasing some of those things until we've until we've moved 626 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:07,600 our other pieces and gotten leverage out of the other pieces 627 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,440 that we've we've moved, we've moved in place first. 628 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,560 One of my favorite chapters from a book, The Hard Thing about 629 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,400 Hard Things by Ben Horowitz of Andreessen Horowitz. 630 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,080 It's I think the chapter is called, it's in. 631 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,520 You know, we're we're playing we're playing chess, not 632 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,440 checkers, right when we're CEO, I introduced you a strategic and 633 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,880 that was probably the most strategic description of a 634 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:40,080 strategy. 50% of this wow, it's pretty, pretty impressive and it 635 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,200 is interesting like great CEO's are doing something really 636 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,040 incredible. They're living in the present 637 00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:51,480 with informed by what's happened in the past. 638 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,560 But there's also this like plain of consciousness where you're 639 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,240 living like in the future and you're doing it all at once. 640 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:01,000 It's, it's pretty impressive. I love that. 641 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,600 So, so maybe just like just to get really concrete and, and 642 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,200 practical, you know, there's a lot of CEO's who are, who are 643 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,520 going through this and, and not having as, as much fun or as 644 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,840 success. And there's a lot of CEO's that 645 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,000 that will be going through CEO succession. 646 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,480 I, I want to ask you, you know, Reed and Alex 1st and then 647 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,200 Jamie, I'd just love to get your perspective as well, you know, 648 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,640 what advice would you give to CE OS going through this? 649 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,080 Yeah. You know, I think it is back to 650 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,880 what I, I'll, I'll anchor back to what I said previously, 651 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:46,800 having this transition dynamic where you have a really deep 652 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,960 respect for one another, both the, the, the, the differences 653 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,920 and similarities and shared vision. 654 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,200 It that is so critical and crucial to this, to this 655 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,400 relationship. And, and, you know, Reid and I 656 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,160 agreed early on that, you know, if there were ever like things 657 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,000 that were foot faults, we'd pull each other to the side, we'd 658 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,840 talk about them. We wouldn't do it in front of 659 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,200 the team. We'd have meals together where 660 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,400 we could, you know, where we would share our insights, we 661 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,480 would share our, our beliefs. But then ultimately, you know, 662 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,960 I, I, I'll just give all the credit in the world to read 663 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,800 right. He, he has said this is you're 664 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,840 running the company. I will give you my, my advice. 665 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,800 I'll give you my counsel. But when he says I'm, I'm 666 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,760 sharing this with you for you to do with as you see fit. 667 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,040 It's a sincere you do with it as you see fit. 668 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,080 And I sincerely sometimes will do nothing with the things that 669 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,040 Rita said, you know, do with what you see fit. 670 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,760 And I know that's OK, but he's he also knows it's OK and that 671 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,400 I'm not if he's giving me the stimulus, I'm not just like, 672 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,960 let's say I don't do anything with it. 673 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,280 It's not like I ignore it. I process it. 674 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,760 It goes through, it goes through the calculator, it goes through 675 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,520 the belly math and everything is, you know, everything is, is 676 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,040 considered. And I think and I think Reid 677 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,960 having that trust in me that that has made all all the 678 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,040 difference in the world. The second piece that I think 679 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,800 has been so, so critical. And one of the reasons that that 680 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,280 we have been able to to move fast is, you know, Reed's legacy 681 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:29,640 of a humble, truly leader, servant, sorry, servant leader, 682 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:35,640 leader within the organization. You can't put a price on the 683 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:44,440 goodwill and a price on the kind of cultural power that that 684 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,240 places on and, and responsibility that that puts on 685 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:51,840 Reed's shoulders. Him getting out in front of the 686 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,960 team and saying, hey, I embrace this, I support this. 687 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,200 I genuinely am supportive of this, of this transformation 688 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,440 strategy helps put people at ease. 689 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,560 And they said, OK, you know, it's, it's going to be OK. 690 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,200 We can buy into this. We can adapt to this new way of 691 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,320 thinking that is in some cases very counter to what they've 692 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,800 been been used to. But. 693 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:24,840 Having Reed's support and having his his not only blessing but 694 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,760 but cheering on of the team, I think it's just helped it help 695 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,360 it all go so much, help it all go so much faster. 696 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,800 I, I love that that those are, those are some incredible 697 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,400 Nuggets. I, I think about, you know, so 698 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,120 you know, you kind of like set some norms between you, you 699 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,160 know, how to, how you're going to behave. 700 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,880 There's these sort of rituals that you built in to like, not 701 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,840 only like build and grow trust, but maintain it, you know, 702 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,800 through dinners. But then like the shared values. 703 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,560 That's really what's striking me. 704 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,160 It's like you might have differences in like perspectives 705 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:10,400 and strategy, but it's it's the the shared values that really 706 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,720 makes it all hum. And then of course, you know, 707 00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:18,760 even even if you had all that, but Reed was kind of giving 708 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,560 permission, maybe overtly, but then like unconsciously pulling 709 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,960 back or doing things like, and I've seen that by the way, then 710 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,600 then that could make it messy, right? 711 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,520 But what I'm hearing is that like reads full hearted support 712 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,480 and saying you got this, right, That that that was that's 713 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,640 actually crucial. That's a crucial ingredient to 714 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:42,960 this. There is something. 715 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,920 Also, that was gosh, it seems like an eternity ago now, but 716 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,040 when I first joined the company and you know, I mean, I think it 717 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,240 was pretty obvious that this I joined with the intention of 718 00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:57,960 this succession that it was going to occur. 719 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,120 But Reid was even more overt with the team, right? 720 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,360 I mean, it wasn't like this was a he said we are going to run 721 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,200 the company under this idea of two in a box. 722 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,640 So it wasn't like did did you know the chief pick your chief 723 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,160 title person, report to Reid or report to Alex. 724 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:22,560 They had an accountability to, to both of us and, and you know, 725 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,480 Reid setting that as the the standard for how we will, we 726 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,320 will run. I think not. 727 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,040 I think I know made a huge different big difference because 728 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,480 it it allowed for well, it ensured there wasn't any 729 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,440 ambiguity in terms of what the direction to the organization 730 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,640 was going to be. And. 731 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:48,160 It that happened on day one in front of the leadership team. 732 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,320 We said we're going to keep it, you know, to the leadership 733 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,880 team, but it's it's although you've heard it never works, 734 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,200 it's going to work this time. And regardless, AS2AS in box day 735 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:06,040 one. And yeah, I'll also add Alex is 736 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,800 a low ego guy. It would be very easy for 737 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,840 someone to walk in and say, oh, that old guy, he he cast a wide 738 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,600 shadow. I think I'm going to get him out 739 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,000 of here. And frankly, by not doing that, 740 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:24,320 it did allow me to use my social capital for his changes to say 741 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,920 this is going to be this is good. 742 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,800 This is what we have to do. This is the only way forward. 743 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:35,160 And and I will say this also, it's nice that so many of the 744 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,760 things he did worked real well. That's always good. 745 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,160 You know, that helps. But so, you know, advice I'd 746 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,400 give to CE OS is plant a lot of seeds there. 747 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:52,200 Were there sort of a few things? I always had one board member, 748 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,560 the head of the non government committee, who I would say, hey, 749 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,240 if I go under a bus, here are a couple people you could call. 750 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,360 And Alex was very much on that list. 751 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,360 I called right after that, that, that fun lunch in Rockefeller 752 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,800 Center at Alex and said put him on the list. 753 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,360 But there were people I had brought into lesser rules in the 754 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,720 hopes that over years they might evolve and they did not work 755 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:18,560 out. So, so you know, it's you're, 756 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,760 it's often not, not the first thing you're planted in in 757 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,520 different ways. And that was years ago. 758 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,920 We, we, I went, I sought out Joel Anderson, who was the CEO 759 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,480 of Five Below, now CEO of Petco, because I had heard he was the 760 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:39,600 best example of founder transition in a public sphere. 761 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,720 And he was the one who said, he said make sure to have a meal 762 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,120 just the two of you start that meal with a did I do anything to 763 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,640 piss you off this week? Did you do anything to piss me 764 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,080 off this week? And frankly, I, I don't think 765 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,640 Alex and I ever did do anything to piss each other off. 766 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,080 But it was nice to know that once a week we'd ask each other 767 00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,680 the the question. Yeah. 768 00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,400 Never disagree in public. I, I know we're sitting there in 769 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,560 one meeting once in Texas that I think it was Dallas, Alex, we're 770 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,720 in this one meeting and it was pretty clear that we were about 771 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:12,560 to evolve to a disagree agreement. 772 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,640 And we said, hey, you know, Alex and I are going to go for a 773 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,920 walk. You guys wait here. 774 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,400 We came back. Nobody even knew what, where 775 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,080 anybody was. We came back and we said, oh, 776 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,360 we're doing this. OK, great. 777 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,680 But it was, it was all done. It didn't even take long once 778 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,720 the two of us. But playing it out in public, 779 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,080 oh, that would have been very, very bad. 780 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,920 But I, I do, I do think it's important. 781 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,920 I will text him during meetings. I will write him emails saying 782 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,240 prioritize this if you want to and where you want to. 783 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,160 You do not need to respond to me on this. 784 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,640 Here are some thoughts. I do believe most great brains 785 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,080 percolate on things. So, you know, again, I don't 786 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,120 expect response to these things. I know he's read them and 787 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,880 they're perking up, percolating on them. 788 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,080 Sometimes we chat about them, sometimes not. 789 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,720 But he's got the pressure on his shoulders now. 790 00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:07,400 I know what that pressure is, but he's got to prioritize this 791 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,840 first, this this later. So the pressure is his. 792 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,840 I'm a free consultant. I can say, hey, I know a few 793 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,000 things about this, think about this. 794 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,920 But if he's to be held accountable, he has to be able 795 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,840 to pick and choose that what what he wants to do and what 796 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,560 what not want to do. So I do think that's, that's 797 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,840 that's really important. And again, the other advice to 798 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,000 CE OS is you're there to make your successor successful. 799 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,440 I've defined my job as executive chair as to do everything 800 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,400 possible to make Alex and the CFO successful, to make the two 801 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,840 of them successful. And that that is the only job 802 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,480 description I have right now. I, I, I love that. 803 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,120 That's, that's fantastic. And you know, we talked, there's 804 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,760 so many like different leadership attributes or 805 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,960 leadership skills. I mean, in, in our taxonomy at 806 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,920 air, it's, there's 45 leadership skills. 807 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,120 That's all, you know, that's a lot of things to, to learn and, 808 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,240 and develop. The one thing we don't 809 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:15,120 necessarily talk about so much is is, you know, sustainability 810 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,160 beyond the leader, him or herself, right? 811 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,680 And, and, and that is actually like a really important part of 812 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,720 being a successful leader. So just something for us to, to 813 00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:31,440 contemplate here. I, I, I just love this advice. 814 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:36,840 Like go do the dinner. It's just, I mean, I know how we 815 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,160 all know on this call we're four CE OS like how busy you can get 816 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,200 and you got like, you know, 3 or 4 fire hoses pointed at you at 817 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,120 any given time. A couple fires here, a couple 818 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,600 wonderful things here and like, oh, by the way, like family and 819 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,240 all sorts of other things. And it's like to just take out 820 00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:54,960 that time. It it, it really requires, you 821 00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,240 know, intentionality. I'd. 822 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,040 Say it's also really just important for the first year. 823 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,280 Then you figured out a rhythm. You figured out you, you've, 824 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,400 you've got a code almost, you know, at that point, it's. 825 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,720 Even an unspoken code for sure. And, and, and again, I think 826 00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:17,160 there's, there's been a, not only are we in a period of rapid 827 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:22,160 transformation as a company, we are in a period of rapidly 828 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:28,280 adapting new ways of working. And that has also been AI think 829 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,720 a significant shift for the organization. 830 00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:35,640 And it's been, you know, I, again, I've known Reed for over 831 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,760 a decade. Reed used to say, hey, to work 832 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,200 at National Vision, your, your head has to be on the pillow in 833 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,920 Atlanta every night. And that was a, for many years, 834 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,400 a long held belief. And as Reid and I started 835 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,400 talking about that, you know, back in last summer and we 836 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,040 started to talk about what could a, what could a workforce look 837 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,760 like and a team that is possibly a bit more distributed and a bit 838 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,000 more hybrid. And oh, by the way, here's the 839 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,640 types of tools we can use and the rhythm we could create and 840 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,640 the type of talent we could get access to. 841 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,360 You know, that adaptability was tremendous. 842 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:15,600 And I think when you look at this the, the the speed to which 843 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,240 we have achieved some of the transformation objectives and 844 00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:24,920 the results, it has also been enabled by this, by this more 845 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,080 nimble distributed but very entrepreneurial and startup type 846 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:37,640 work mentality. Well, I definitely want to dig 847 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,000 into that more. Yeah, maybe we could. 848 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,840 Jamie, I do want to get your advice, but since we're on this 849 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:49,040 topic of distributed workforce and and the pretty dramatic 850 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:54,240 change, I am just, I'm just curious like, you know, how is 851 00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:57,640 that working, you know, going from, you know, being an in 852 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,480 office culture to, I mean, Alex, I mean, are you even in you 853 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,600 don't look like you're in the office. 854 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,000 I'm currently in New York. Because I was in AI, was in 855 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,920 investor meetings, but I'm I'm in the office. 856 00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:09,960 Explain. The philosophy Alex Explain 857 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,160 explain because it's a great philosophy and and pretty 858 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,320 ingenious so. You know, one, we said, OK, as a 859 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,240 business we we spend historically we'd spend millions 860 00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:26,360 of dollars a year relocating people and we would spend a lot 861 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,560 of money on recruiter fees to find people who were, you know, 862 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,240 met the job spec and who would be willing to relocate to 863 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:34,360 Atlanta. We said, OK, well, you know, 864 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,320 maybe through our networks, we could find other talented people 865 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:42,040 who would be great for the role who have category expertise, but 866 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,920 maybe the location. That was kind of the that was 867 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,040 the starting point of this, this ideal. 868 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,920 Then we said, you know, other things have changed post COVID. 869 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,320 The way people work on teams has changed. 870 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,040 They're not just for meetings. You can use Teams to do to 871 00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:04,800 deliver content and if I think that Teams use correctly can be 872 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,880 an incredibly powerful tool and and a little bit contrary to how 873 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:14,800 Teams is used in other places. Having a Teams meeting that's a 874 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:19,640 business review that's content rich where everyone is virtual 875 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,240 and paying attention to the one speaker and focused on nothing 876 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,680 but the one slide or the one piece of information that's on 877 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,840 the screen, I think allows for a real rich acknowledgement and 878 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,200 understanding of the content that's being discussed. 879 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,680 So that was so these are kind of some of the, the, the, the 880 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:43,640 stimulus that, you know, we were thinking about, we were talking 881 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,920 about. So, so we said, all right, 882 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,840 listen, what if we, what if we actually looked at a year and we 883 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:56,240 said we're going to schedule, we're going to be purposeful 884 00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,960 about our weeks and we're going to create a week that is a 885 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,960 virtual week that is going to be structured around content rich 886 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,840 deep dives. And we're going to have a week, 887 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,680 a month that we plan out through 26 where we bring all senior 888 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,960 directors and above, regardless of where they are. 889 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,160 We bring them to the office in Atlanta and we are delivered 890 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,200 about the agenda. We, we have small team meetings 891 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:29,240 and we schedule everything from happy hours to team based 892 00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:31,520 events. And we've really become 893 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,120 prescriptive about how this rhythm works. 894 00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:40,360 So that has been what we've implemented and it has worked 895 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,080 fantastically. And you know, Reid and I joke 896 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:45,320 about this. We're like, you know, 897 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,160 collaboration week is, is really my, my Trojan horse to get 898 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,560 people to work from 8:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night, 899 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:53,920 right? Because they start in the 900 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,840 morning and then obviously, you know, they're, they, they go on 901 00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,400 to dinner and we're still talking about work stuff, you 902 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,960 know, until 10:00 at night, but in a bit more of a social 903 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,760 setting. Then we put some rules in place 904 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,480 around like even when we're in the office, like if you don't 905 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,640 have more than 70% of participants ready to be in a 906 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,080 room, then everyone goes on teams. 907 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,600 So you're not creating a dynamic where there's, you know, some, 908 00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,400 you know, where there's five people in a conference room and 909 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:25,120 five people on teams, right. So, you know, it, it sounds odd, 910 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:29,960 but like putting a bit of rigidity and process and 911 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,080 structure has actually been incredibly freeing for the 912 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:37,200 organization because it's in that predictability and in that 913 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:43,000 structure that it creates the connection points that people 914 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,440 were worried about not having if you worked in a distributed way. 915 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,280 Because it's all very, you're like, Oh yeah, I see how I'm 916 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,760 going to get the same kind of connection points to play 917 00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,000 business along the way throughout the cadence of of the 918 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,400 month I've. Also noticed in non 919 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,920 collaboration weeks, Alex tends to have the larger team meetings 920 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,920 on Fridays. I guess he wants to know whether 921 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,440 people are there on Fridays and they're all there because yeah, 922 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,600 but I think that's pretty conscious as. 923 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,120 Well, I, I will say there was a text message from Reed that I 924 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,520 think might have been the closest I've ever gotten from a 925 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,560 mandate, which is Alex, you really think we got to schedule 926 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,160 these deep dive meetings still at 4:00 on a Friday? 927 00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:29,520 And I'm like, all right, point, point taken after. 7 hours of 928 00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,520 them let's. Let's let's ratchet that back. 929 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:39,160 But but it is something really I think what the structure again 930 00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:43,840 what the structure has allowed is predictable connection points 931 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:50,880 that we have not lost a beat by not having people all kind of Co 932 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,960 located continuously. And and Jonathan to to bring 933 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,200 this up to the umbrella thought of of some of the things you 934 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,320 started with. All of us have hired lots of 935 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,520 people in our lives. All of us have brought in people 936 00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:10,560 to our organizations, and isn't one of the great joys of running 937 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,680 a company and of leadership? When you bring in somebody for 938 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,120 any given role and they start doing things, you think, Oh my 939 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,160 God, I wish I thought of that. What a great idea. 940 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,560 I wish I could. I wish that had occurred to me. 941 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,400 I've got the right person in that role because I am learning 942 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,960 by watching them do their thing. That is the great joy. 943 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,680 And Alex has brought so many things where I said, wow, I, I 944 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,440 didn't, I would not have thought of that. 945 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,640 It's such a great idea. It's, it is, isn't it wonderful? 946 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,840 And again, that's that is the joy of of leadership, getting to 947 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,800 watch people come in and teach you things in their new roles. 948 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,120 It's really cool. I, I love it. 949 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:57,320 I, and actually this is reminding me of was we had Peter 950 00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,640 Capelli, who's like the, you know, the HR guru. 951 00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:05,200 I, I consider him the guru of HR And you know, I've been been 952 00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,080 researching, writing, speaking on, on HR as he's over here at 953 00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,720 Wharton. And you know, you, you would 954 00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:17,600 think that, you know, being virtual and, and remote or 955 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,120 hybrid, that that that's like really easy. 956 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,480 But actually the, the organizations that are actually 957 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:30,080 successful with a, a virtual first or hybrid model, it's not 958 00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,040 because they just said like, OK, just do your work and, and be 959 00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,880 flexible. They actually have a lot of 960 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,600 structure and expectations set and norms set. 961 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,320 So, you know, to your point out, you were like, oh, it sounds 962 00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:47,520 kind of weird, but that's actually the critical ingredient 963 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,000 to success. Otherwise you start to see a 964 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:55,240 degradation in culture and, and sort of the haphazardness of 965 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,400 like, you know, come go when you want. 966 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,560 So I I just love the intentionality and the 967 01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,000 expectations that you that you set. 968 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,520 And, and I think that that is as silly as it may sound, it is 969 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,680 probably why it it works so well. 970 01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:12,760 What's? Interesting. 971 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:17,320 Like to me, even as an observer of our collaboration week, when 972 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:26,000 we mandate that that entire team is together, you, you compact a 973 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,800 bunch of energy and ideas in a, a short, short kind of time 974 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,280 frame. It almost forces you to be 975 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:39,160 nimble and fast and make decisions and come to alignment. 976 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:44,640 Because you know, you, you have this finite amount of time to 977 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,520 kind of land the plane on this thing. 978 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,080 And then you have two or three weeks to kind of go work it 979 01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:55,360 before everyone's back together. So in a, in a, in a funny way, 980 01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,240 you know, re re teases me, you know that I'm a, I'm a Peloton 981 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,520 addict. Peloton ANU. 982 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:09,040 It one of my favorite genres of, of Peloton classes are the are 983 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,760 the hit classes, the high, high intensity interval training. 984 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,440 And so I was talking to a pal of mine from outside the company 985 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,760 about, you know, this and he's like, he's like Alex. 986 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,040 You basically turn your work calendar into like a hit 987 01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,600 training class like you do high intensity. 988 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,000 High. Intensity, low intensity and 989 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,680 then back to high intensity. So you basically count the rise 990 01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,240 of business around how you like to around how you like to 991 01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,400 exercise too. So I thought it was a fun 992 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:35,840 observation. I absolutely. 993 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,120 Love that. I absolutely love that. 994 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,560 Well, I want to actually, I want to hear from Jamie, who has 995 01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:48,160 coached both of you, you know? So Jamie coaching Reed for five 996 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:53,160 years, coaching you Alex for for, you know, almost a half 997 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,840 year now. And Jamie, what's it been like 998 01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:03,000 from the vantage point of a coach who is also Aceo? 999 01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,360 How is this experience been for you? 1000 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:08,440 The. The. 1001 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,360 Framework around this if we're since making is that we're 1002 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:15,360 talking about planned succession and that's a different scenario 1003 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:19,000 from unplanned succession. And so part of reading our 1004 01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,600 conversation Reid and I3 four years ago was the difference 1005 01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,880 between you know leaving or succeeding, bringing on your 1006 01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,240 successor 3 weeks or three months before you're asked to 1007 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:31,920 leave versus after you're asked to leave. 1008 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,240 There's a very different feeling around that scenario right. 1009 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,880 So if you're able to build that succession, because I work with 1010 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,520 folks who are brought into organizations where somebody's 1011 01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,640 had to leave or been asked to leave, that's a very different 1012 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,840 situation for what we have here. And if you think about 1013 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,880 continuity, what we've talked about like the desire to have 1014 01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,840 that continuity and the value that we've got in two people 1015 01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,000 working really, really well together to respect the values 1016 01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,920 and the culture that it has existed, but also to see the 1017 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,280 organization with new eyes, then you could argue that we would 1018 01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,680 want to have planned succession, right. 1019 01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,960 And so, you know, part of if I think about the, the framing 1020 01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,960 again, you talked about the 1st 90 days of the 1st 100 days 1021 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,600 started and I always think about the last 100 days and I did this 1022 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,160 myself when I was the chief exec is like, what is the legacy? 1023 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,640 I'm going to leave at some point because at some point I'm going 1024 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,720 to leave. And so, you know, part of how do 1025 01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,200 I develop A-Team a high performing team, You start 1026 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,680 there, how about building systems and structures and 1027 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,040 processes that help to get the best out of the team 1028 01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,720 individually and collectively. That would be a second piece. 1029 01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,440 But the last thing I would say here, and I think we spoke to it 1030 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,720 earlier on, and I think to me it's a hallmark of all great 1031 01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:43,800 leaders. And I'll say that Alex and Reid 1032 01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,600 are two exceptional leaders. But the hallmark of great 1033 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:51,880 leaders is that they say when things go well, like with this 1034 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,120 individual and they're doing well, or when things go well for 1035 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:58,480 the team, it's because of them. And when they don't go well, 1036 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,240 it's because of me. And so not in a way that 1037 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,080 advocates their accountability or advocates their 1038 01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,960 responsibility or assumes more than we need to, but just 1039 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,960 understanding that we may have missed something that's created 1040 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,360 the conditions for somebody to do their greatest work. 1041 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,640 And that we may have access to information or resources, We 1042 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,360 will be able to create the conditions for somebody to 1043 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,600 really do their best work. And if that isn't the case, let 1044 01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,040 me at least examine those variables and see if I could 1045 01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,520 change something in that, because I can see the pattern 1046 01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,240 from my vantage point, just like the coach on the sideline of our 1047 01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,880 famous soccer game now is like, I can see how the game is being 1048 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:38,840 played. I could be playing somebody in 1049 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,960 the wrong position. My, I could, they could have too 1050 01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,160 much scope or responsibility. I could have them working in the 1051 01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,400 wrong mindset. And I think really that sort of 1052 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,160 neurodivergent populations that require different criteria to be 1053 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,320 able to do their greatest work. And I think we're going to see 1054 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,320 more and more of this in the conversation. 1055 01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,120 How are we getting people to be able to do their best work, 1056 01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,560 whether it's in the office, whether it's in a hybrid 1057 01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,360 situation or, or other ones. And so I, I just want to 1058 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:04,720 encourage people to think about it. 1059 01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,880 Part of the reason for success here is we've got 2 exceptional 1060 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,040 leaders. Alex is the right person at the 1061 01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:14,360 right time in this organization. Reid has also been very 1062 01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,760 intentional about seeing his legacy as being through Alex and 1063 01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:23,080 with Alex, and also when if Alex comes across a challenge so that 1064 01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,920 Reid can assume some of the responsibility of how do I help 1065 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:29,360 Alex and the team and Alex can do this too, how can I help the 1066 01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:32,320 team to do their best work? Natalie is an exceptional 1067 01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,600 hallmark of great leaders. They say when it goes wrong, 1068 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,040 it's because of me. When it goes well, it's because 1069 01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,880 of them, not because it does, but because that mindset gives 1070 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,520 people the freedom. It gives people the cover. 1071 01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,400 It gives people the collaborative sense of support 1072 01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,640 and encouragement that somebody's got my back and 1073 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,520 they're helping me to see it differently. 1074 01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,480 Instead of just saying you haven't done this properly, it 1075 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,200 needs to be better. I'm just pushing that downhill. 1076 01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,840 We see that too often. And that to me is what the 1077 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,040 difference between a transactional leader, right, or 1078 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,000 manager, even, and a transformational leader. 1079 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:11,960 A tree. That's, that's amazing. 1080 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,800 Jamie, I, I'm so obviously I'm a huge fan of your book. 1081 01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,920 Let's go. You know, when you think about 1082 01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,960 that book and all the chapters, you know which, which really 1083 01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,800 represents, you know, the, the, your, your philosophy on 1084 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:34,200 leadership, both from your experience as, as ACEO, as a 1085 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:40,400 coach and, and, and life what, what concept is most salient, 1086 01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:46,440 like what comes up as being hyper relevant when you think 1087 01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,040 about Reed and Alex and the work you've, you've done. 1088 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,360 You know, you want to hear from these two gentlemen. 1089 01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:54,560 You don't need to hear so much from me. 1090 01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,280 My job is to frame. But there was one, there's one 1091 01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,480 called Perform, Prepare, Recover, which talks about, you 1092 01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,920 know, we normally spend 60% of our time performing, 30% 1093 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,120 preparing and 10% recovering. And we'd extended that 1094 01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,440 conversation, Reid and I to think about where are you 1095 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,120 spending your energy? Is it tactical, short term, 1096 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,600 medium term, long term? And I said, well, what happened 1097 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,480 if we flip that? If you spent 10% on the 1098 01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:21,240 day-to-day, 30% on the 9:00 to 12:00 and 60% on the 12 plus. 1099 01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:23,760 And I think that von Veed, you can speak to this. 1100 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,680 He ended up agreeing. We sort of negotiated A303030, 1101 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,400 which is numerically gone, but it was a good agreement. 1102 01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,320 But just even just think about where am I spending my time and 1103 01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,800 energy as the CEO? There are only, there are 1104 01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,480 certain things that only you can see and only you can do. 1105 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,760 And so if you're dragged down into the organization like most 1106 01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,440 people are by the day-to-day fires, like the gravity pulls 1107 01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,720 you into the organization, then you may not be future proofing, 1108 01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,320 you know your business against the vagaries that are out there. 1109 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,760 So that would be #1 read. I mean, you can talk to that too 1110 01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,000 if you like. I'd just like to say that when a 1111 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:03,560 business is going well, you have the luxury of thinking more long 1112 01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:08,080 term and when when it's not. It it's. 1113 01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,040 It's harder. I'm not sure I ever got to the 1114 01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:15,920 3030 thirty we negotiated, but I would also say we started 1115 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:22,000 working together at the end of the really good era and at the 1116 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,840 beginning of what I call the very backfooted chapter and the 1117 01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:30,560 backfooted chapter. You just inherently get shorter 1118 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,520 term. What has been wonderful is when 1119 01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,920 Alex arrived, you know, in terms of your your, your rule of 1120 01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,920 future shaping. Alex has been able to bring a, a 1121 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:49,600 longer term orientation to the business through his approaches 1122 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,800 and and ideas. Then, then, then I was, I was 1123 01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,120 able to, but again, I had AI, had a working model that I could 1124 01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,479 replicate really well and replicate well into the future. 1125 01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,840 So success when we went IPO was look at the last few years. 1126 01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,319 We're going to just keep doing that and it's going to keep 1127 01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:08,120 working. And it did till the end of 21 1128 01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:11,640 when it stopped working. And then the second one, 1129 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,680 Jonathan, would be about the stories you tell because all 1130 01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:19,120 great leaders, we have two exceptional storytellers with us 1131 01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:20,479 today, right? They're too great. 1132 01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,800 And I find that that ability to be able to really, when you 1133 01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,800 think about sort of, you know, leadership, future shaping is 1134 01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,560 about being able to look into the future and tell a compelling 1135 01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,520 story that galvanizes a group of people to want to build a better 1136 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,200 future, right? But the ability to be able to 1137 01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,800 tell a story, right? And we're telling, you know, the 1138 01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,120 story is evolving now under Alex's watch. 1139 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,640 The story is evolving about what we used to be. 1140 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,640 The chapters closed, now we're evolving the story. 1141 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,200 But the storyteller, the values that underpin the organization, 1142 01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,680 the culture that we bring, the impact that we have in for 1143 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,720 people across the country, 7 million plus people across the 1144 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,320 country and accounting, you know, the storytelling 1145 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,440 capabilities of a leader are something that I think is 1146 01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:06,800 absolutely critical. And so not just the story we 1147 01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,240 could tell about ourselves, with the stories that we tell about 1148 01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,000 the team and our teammates, the stories we tell about the world 1149 01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,320 that we live in. And then the most compelling 1150 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:15,960 story of all. It's just the one about the 1151 01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:19,400 future. I love that. 1152 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,600 And obviously you have to be a great sense maker because that's 1153 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:27,320 that's sort of the this the this story forming. 1154 01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,400 And then it's the articulation of that, which is the 1155 01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,240 storytelling itself. Right? 1156 01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:34,600 Read. Yeah, sitting. 1157 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:38,960 On the sidelines watching the game, you have an ability to see 1158 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,360 the story unfolding. And frankly, it's one thing if 1159 01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,880 Alex is telling the story, and that's an important part, but 1160 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,560 it's another thing and gives an added validity if somebody else 1161 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,960 is telling the story and and even pointing out bits of the 1162 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,320 story to folks from the sidelines. 1163 01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,200 Amazing. All right, so we're moving into 1164 01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,400 this is my version of the Lightning round. 1165 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,000 So I'm not Jim Cramer and we're not talking stocks. 1166 01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,440 We're talking leadership on a podcast about leadership. 1167 01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:12,280 And so lightning round on leadership. 1168 01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:17,640 OK, it's it's it's Q4, December 2025. 1169 01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:21,280 We're moving into 26. Alex, I know you're already in 1170 01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:28,080 26 in your head. We got we got AI innovation 1171 01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,600 curve going like this. We have a pretty confusing 1172 01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,120 economy. There's a lot of stuff going on. 1173 01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:40,520 You know, geopolitically, there's a there's an interesting 1174 01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,360 consumer right now in in in the US. 1175 01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,480 It's just a whole, you know, confluence of factors that make 1176 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:57,280 leadership, not checkers, but but more conducive to chess. 1177 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,400 And something we talk a lot about it air is that, you know, 1178 01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:05,480 change, which used to happen in sort of episodic ways and then 1179 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,080 more accelerated ways. Change seems to be now just like 1180 01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:11,440 a constant. It's like we're living in 1181 01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:16,280 change. So, you know, having laid out 1182 01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,640 that landscape, what advice, you know, would you give leaders? 1183 01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,600 You know, when you when you think about, you know, the year 1184 01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,280 ahead and the times you know that we're in and where things 1185 01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,440 are trending, what advice would you give leaders? 1186 01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:34,720 And, and maybe I'll give each of you, you know, up to two minutes 1187 01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,120 to, to share some parting advice for leaders. 1188 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,760 Don't accept. Don't accept the status quo. 1189 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,320 Really understand your your customer, your consumer, your 1190 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:53,360 business. Be willing to challenge past 1191 01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:59,200 assumptions. Get to an insight that you may 1192 01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:03,560 not have had before that allows you to take advantage of a 1193 01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:11,600 nuance in your business, the market, the macro, whatever, and 1194 01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:17,040 focus on once you've once you've kind of nailed those insights, 1195 01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:21,680 then focus on on execution. Remove roadblocks along the way. 1196 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:30,760 Be very deliberate on what you're going to focus on and 1197 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:35,400 what you might not. You know, you can't juggle 17 1198 01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:40,000 balls and you got to be mindful of you're going to let some drop 1199 01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,880 and that's OK. And but once they're on the 1200 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,840 ground, continue to focus on the balls you're juggling and don't 1201 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,400 don't think about those that have dropped and just just keep 1202 01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:55,560 those that are going up in the air and, you know, keep just 1203 01:13:55,560 --> 01:14:02,960 hyper, hyper focused. I love that it's OK for a couple 1204 01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:09,000 drop balls to drop in so far as we are being conscious about 1205 01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,880 letting those drop and focused on the balls in the air. 1206 01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:17,440 That is as beautiful advice as and, and in an ideal world you 1207 01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:21,320 would have read on the sidelines cheering you on, you know, as 1208 01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:23,720 you're juggling. Amazing. 1209 01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,120 That's awesome advice, Alex read. 1210 01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,800 Well, you know, Jamie referenced this a moment ago, the 1211 01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:34,480 conversation where where I I went to him and said and said, 1212 01:14:34,480 --> 01:14:38,440 hey, the learning this concept of 6030 ten, that an 1213 01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:42,360 organization should spend 60% of its time on the year ahead, 30% 1214 01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:45,320 on to the three years and 10% on the period thereafter. 1215 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,400 Jamie then came back to me and said, yeah, that's the 1216 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,520 organization, but you as CEO should flip it 10% on the next 1217 01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,440 year, 30% to 3 and 60% beyond that. 1218 01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:59,240 I don't believe in this day and age that's possible to achieve. 1219 01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,400 But, but in my relationship with Alex, there have been sort of 1220 01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:07,160 chapters of this, you know, the 1st chapter was his presidency 1221 01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:11,320 and evolving to take over as CEO, that the next chapter was 1222 01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:15,320 sort of, I think he became CEO on August 1 and we, we sort of 1223 01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,680 agreed he had this big investor presentation in mid November. 1224 01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:23,160 He said, why don't we say now there's this chapter of, of Alex 1225 01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:27,040 is new to CEO and, and, and sort of rallying Wall Street around 1226 01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:31,120 this and, and, and why don't we make sure everything goes 1227 01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,480 beautifully for that investor Day thing. 1228 01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:35,840 And frankly, Alex and I are getting together next week to 1229 01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,840 say, OK, what's the next chapter in our relationship here? 1230 01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:43,280 How can we do that? And, and for me, I preview of 1231 01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:44,440 what we're going to talk about next week. 1232 01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:49,280 Alex is, should I be working now on much longer term things? 1233 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:53,960 I, I do think now Jamie, I probably could in this role do 1234 01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,720 103060 not in Alex's role. And I don't think Alex can do 1235 01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:02,080 103060 for a great many years. It really has to be going so 1236 01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:05,200 well and still a great, great aspiration. 1237 01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:10,000 But I think it is figuring out how to balance the long term and 1238 01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,080 the and the near term that's that's so hard in this 1239 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:16,720 transformational age. AI is not going to make us a ton 1240 01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:20,480 of money in the next six months to a year, but to ignore it will 1241 01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:23,400 kill us. We have a lot of big strategies 1242 01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:27,920 that can be useful to us and big value creators a a a couple 1243 01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:32,080 years from now, but that it's figuring out how to progress 1244 01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:36,960 them now with while still delivering next year's plan or 1245 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,360 Wall Street really wants next next quarter to be really good. 1246 01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:43,320 You know that. And, and so making sure that 1247 01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,120 we're delivering on, on those pieces. 1248 01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:48,240 So, so it's it's just getting that balance right short term 1249 01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,400 and long term. I I love that, Yeah. 1250 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:56,520 Whether it's 303030303060, that one, that one add up, 2020 1251 01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,800 sixty, Yeah. However you do it, you got to do 1252 01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:00,800 it. Meaning you got to be 1253 01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:05,280 intentional about delineating between, you know, the the 1254 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:09,120 immediate, the short term and the long term and but the more. 1255 01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:11,920 Success you have as Alex is delivering now, the more you get 1256 01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,320 your you, you buy yourself the opportunity to think longer 1257 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:17,440 term. Yeah, and and. 1258 01:17:17,440 --> 01:17:20,400 Again, I'll just, I'll just sorry, I'll just share. 1259 01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,720 You know, to me, at the end of the day, strategy is as simple 1260 01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:27,400 as it's about choice. It's about what choices you're 1261 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,160 going to make. Back to the analogy of what 1262 01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,920 balls you're going to drop. That's both a short term and a 1263 01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,680 long term has to be a long term point of view. 1264 01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:42,800 You know, I my advice to anyone stepping into this role, you get 1265 01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:44,920 a job like this, you've earned a job like this. 1266 01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,040 You probably have pretty good instincts. 1267 01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,280 Stick with your like, stick to your guts, stick to your 1268 01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:53,160 instincts. They're not going to lead you 1269 01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:54,920 astray. They've gotten you this far. 1270 01:17:55,240 --> 01:18:00,080 I I think people when they when doubt starts to creep in and 1271 01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:04,200 outside forces start to creep in and external stimulus that might 1272 01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:07,560 take you in a different path. Yeah, I've seen, you know, 1273 01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:13,080 friends fail because of those externalities versus sticking to 1274 01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:17,640 your *NSYNC, your playbook certainly being, you know, 1275 01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,320 influenced. But if you have a strong 1276 01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:25,040 conviction on something, then you know have strong resolve and 1277 01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:28,840 see it through. I I love that I mean it it's 1278 01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:34,640 it's appreciating our intuition or or as as you know, this new 1279 01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:39,520 term that I've learned our belly math I I I absolutely love that 1280 01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:45,760 Alex love that Jamie, your last when I. 1281 01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,000 Wrote the book 20 years ago. We were in the midst of a 1282 01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,040 technological revolution at the time. 1283 01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:53,520 That's what we were told. All the articles were saying the 1284 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,240 same things that I'm hearing today. 1285 01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:58,080 And I wrote the book as the antidote to that, which is about 1286 01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:00,640 leadership. If strategy is about choice, 1287 01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,040 Alex, then leadership is about people. 1288 01:19:03,480 --> 01:19:07,160 And so you don't ever forget the people run your organizations 1289 01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:09,360 and people buy from your organizations. 1290 01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,840 And so it's so easy to get consumed and think every 1291 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,360 generation thinks it's special. We think that we're in really 1292 01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:19,120 radical times and there is a lot of uncertainty for sure. 1293 01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:21,440 But this piece of research is really interesting. 1294 01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:25,200 That said 1880 to 1920 was actually more disruptive than 1295 01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:28,960 1980 to 2020. And so because of the 1296 01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:33,040 introduction of automobile, radio, car, TV, electric light 1297 01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,640 bulb, etcetera, etcetera. And so you know we're building 1298 01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:38,080 on the top of that. And So what can seem uncertain 1299 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,440 actually, as we gravitate toward back towards what people needs 1300 01:19:41,440 --> 01:19:43,760 are, what are people's needs, because you'll be serving a 1301 01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,280 person at the end of the day of whatever organization you're in. 1302 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,320 And so technology can enable that and it can help you to be 1303 01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:53,080 effective and efficient at that. It can help you to optimize, but 1304 01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:57,520 it may not help you to actualize both yourself, your team, and 1305 01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,640 the consumers who buy from you. And so keep that in mind as you 1306 01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,920 move forward. Don't get distracted by the 1307 01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:05,120 noise. Focus on what you do well. 1308 01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,720 And you know, who knows? You could be like National 1309 01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:14,920 Vision. Now, you know, as as the oldest 1310 01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,720 person here, I'll take the final word if there is a final word. 1311 01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:22,480 And this is we, I used to do a lot of meetings with new store 1312 01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:25,800 managers and new new optometrists who came to us. 1313 01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:27,880 And I always ended with the same thing. 1314 01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:32,920 It's, it's, and it's the same advice I give to all leaders is 1315 01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:37,160 do work that you're proud of. Tried is the greatest litmus 1316 01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,080 test for any decision. When you're faced with a 1317 01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:44,120 decision saying which Rd. would I be prouder of? 1318 01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:46,960 And generally that road takes you to the right place. 1319 01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,440 And it's just such a great, a great guide. 1320 01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:55,160 So my the best piece of advice I can get of anyone is do work 1321 01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:57,960 that you can be really proud of and aim high. 1322 01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,080 Do work that you can be really proud of and aim high. 1323 01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:09,400 That is a perfect way to conclude our podcast on 1324 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:13,720 leadership right now. Gentlemen, thank you so much for 1325 01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:20,400 sharing your, your stories, your wisdom for, for being a little 1326 01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:24,240 vulnerable. And this was just fantastic. 1327 01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:30,720 I, I took so many pointers away from this and, and this notion 1328 01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,640 of optimization versus actualization. 1329 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:37,800 Jamie, that's a, that's a long walk, you know, contemplation 1330 01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,240 there. And, and, and really this idea 1331 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,480 of, of like the art of how to say goodbye. 1332 01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:48,840 Will will end the podcast with that, with that song. 1333 01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:54,040 You know, it's, if you don't get that right, you can't say hello. 1334 01:21:55,320 --> 01:22:00,600 And it's it's really a beautiful see it happening and unfolding 1335 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:05,040 in such a beautiful way. So thank you very much, Reed, 1336 01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:10,000 Alex and Jamie and and and looking forward to A to a Part 2 1337 01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:14,240 on on philanthropy. OK, anytime previous both on. 1338 01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:16,160 Yeah. All right, you guys. 1339 01:22:16,480 --> 01:22:17,240 Great to see you.