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So there's a there's a question 
looming in the back of my mind 

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around leadership, and it is, is
leadership. 

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Are you born or made right? 
And I guess this gets us back to

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the whole nature nurture debate.
And I yeah, I mean, what's your 

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take on that? 
Basically for every trait that 

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you look at, behavioral, 
cognitive, whatever, it's like 

7
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5050, I mean, give a like, 
right. 

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So it's like 50% genetic, what 
you're endowed with from your 

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parents, the random shuffle of 
genes that you got from your 

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parents and then your 
experiences and you're growing 

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up and, and then, you know, the 
context basically, which then 

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shapes, you know, that 
biological endowment. 

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We see that in monkeys where 
it's, you know, easier to 

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measure and you know, that that 
seems to be true in people as 

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well. 
And, you know, that's really 

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apparent when you look at, you 
know, extreme cases. 

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So, so in, you know, in the 
autism spectrum, for example, 

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genetic, you know, genetic 
factors, very powerful genetic 

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factors. 
And, you know, the two of the 

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key kind of defining 
characteristics of the autism 

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spectrum is, you know, 
differences in social 

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interaction, right? 
So more difficulty reading 

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social cues, maybe not as 
motivated to be with other 

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people, maybe. 
Yeah. 

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So so that part and then 
language and then repetitive 

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behavior. 
So it so we, we know, we know 

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that even across just the 
typically developing spectrum 

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that there are genetic factors, 
right, that shape and shape the 

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hallow circuits about now in 
monkeys, we've been able to 

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study this much more directly. 
And we do that in two ways. 1 is

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like in the lab here where we 
can study in a really fine 

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degree of detail what's 
happening from molecules on up 

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to circuits to networks in the 
brain and understand how how 

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social information is processed.
But we also have been, and this 

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is a really, you know, this is a
different part of my life and 

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work that's unusual for a 
neuroscientist is that we've 

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been studying as population of 
monkeys on an island off the 

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coast of Puerto Rico, in Puerto 
Rico, 18 years. 

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They live on an island. 
There's about 2000 monkeys 

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there, give or take at any time.
And we know everything about 

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every monkey going back to the 
founding of the population, the 

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founding population of 400 in 
1938. 

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And so we have people there who 
are research teams who track 

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every single monkey, do, you 
know, complete behavioral 

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profiles. 
So they know what they're like, 

46
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,360
they know who they hang out 
with, who they don't, who they 

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fight with, their status. 
There's something Myers Briggs. 

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They're sort of like a Myers 
Briggs for monkeys. 

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It's but it's not self report, 
which is the key because 

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otherwise, you know, that's the 
problem with Myers Briggs. 

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It's like how you want to what 
you think you will be or what 

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the other person has more 
biases. 

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But monkeys vary in their 
tendencies to be, you know, 

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really skilled and deft social, 
you know, players and others who

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are more aloof on solitary or or
awkward. 

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A lot of the genes are involved.
We've we've demonstrated that 

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00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:45,480
down on Kyo similar to the genes
that are, you know, associated 

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with with differences amongst 
humans in terms of their social 

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tendencies, etcetera. 
And what what's really been a 

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focus of our work over the last 
decade is understanding how that

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biological endowment, any 
monkeys born with interacts with

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their experience to shape 
ultimately success and what's 

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the kind of biological 
foundation of that. 

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So just like people, monkeys who
and this is true in humans, you 

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know, monkeys and people who 
have more friends, more social 

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support, live longer, healthier 
and in humans, happier lives for

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humans, they make more money for
all the business reasons we just

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talked about. 
Monkeys make more babies when 

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they have more. 
As their KPI. 

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As their KPI exactly, I love to 
say that and and the underlying 

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hardware in their brain that 
they're using is the same that 

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we see in people. 
Now what's really interesting is

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just like in humans, but it's 
more evident in monkeys, is that

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monkeys who have more friends, 
the social brain network is 

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bigger. 
Like the more friends you got, 

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the bigger the social. 
Brain. 

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Literally. 
Physically. 

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Bigger in part of it, it's just 
like large, larger, it's larger.

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And, and then, you know, that 
that's reflects both their 

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endowment that they got from 
their parents, but also their 

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experience growing up, because 
we see that those changes don't 

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really emerge until adolescence.
You know, so it's not like not 

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so evident when a monkey's a 
like an infant when they're a 

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baby monkey. 
So it, it, you know, it emerges 

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through interactions with, with 
others. 

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And I know we got to wrap, but 
I'm going to kind of tell this 

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story, but the story which I, 
you know, I, I know, you know, 

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but you know, we had, we started
working there, what, in 2008 or 

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something like that. 
And we're merrily going along 

90
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,200
and we're, we're cataloging the 
behavior monkeys. 

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We're identifying certain genes 
that affect whether a monkey's 

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like really like the at the 
center of the network, they got 

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lots of friends and their 
friends have lots of friends or 

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they're kind of on the 
outskirts. 

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Same genes that are involved in 
humans. 

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You know, it's heritable. 
And then, and then in 2017, 

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Hurricane Maria hits Monkey 
Island while hits, you know, so 

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we know about it hitting Puerto 
Rico, the mainland, 3000 people 

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lost their lives. 
Other devastation. 

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People still have PTSD about it.
When I, you know, when I go down

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there, I was down there in 
January and it was really 

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devastating, worst natural 
disaster in, in the history of 

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Puerto Rico. 
And in a lot of people, you 

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know, suicides went way up, you 
know, anxiety, depression, PTSD,

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etcetera. 
And so that hurricane hit Monkey

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Island first. 
It was an even stronger storm 

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when it hit Kyo, and remarkably,
all the monkeys survived. 

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All the monkeys survived the 
hurricane. 

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Yeah, as far as we could tell, 
maybe a few infants, you know, 

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which we didn't, you know, 
catalog. 

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We don't know how, how we 
believe they hunkered down on 

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the Leeward side of the island. 
There's like a Cliff. 

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And so they'd be out of the, you
know, the not taking the full 

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force of the wind. 
And they don't have houses or 

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things like that that could fall
on them, you know. 

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So some ways better ways that 
helps. 

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But, you know, the, the, the, 
But it was utterly devastating. 

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It was like a bomb went off on 
the island. 

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All the research facilities were
destroyed, the freshwater 

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cisterns were destroyed, and all
the trees were destroyed, 

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basically, And they still 
haven't recovered. 

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OK, So the trees are a source of
food, a source of shelter, and 

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probably most importantly, 
shade. 

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So if you ever been to Puerto 
Rico, it's really hot and humid 

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in the afternoon. 
It's right at the limits of 

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human tolerance. 
Monkeys can't sweat. 

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So in terms of thermoregulation,
they're a real How do they? 

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Stay cool then. 
They have to use their behavior 

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and so they typically would go 
in the shade in the the heat of 

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the day. 
Now there's no more shade 8°C 

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hotter, 8°C hotter in the open 
compared to the shade in the 

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afternoon. 
Now, what's really interesting 

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is that, and we've been able to 
catalog this over the years that

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at every level, this gist, I 
mean, talk about a stressor that

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you can't replicate in the lab. 
So at the molecular level, what 

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we see is that it's basically 
they're they're we that 

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00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,640
accelerated aging. 
So within one year, we look in 

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the stress. 
And yeah, so so running through.

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I mean the the unleashed and so,
but it's so many levels. 

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So just if you look at gene 
expression, going through the 

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hurricane is like getting old. 
So genes that turn on when you 

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get old, like inflammation, like
my knees, you know, they get 

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turned way up. 
And genes that are turned off 

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like that are involved in, you 
know, repairing DNA and things 

145
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,400
like that when you get old, 
right? 

146
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:37,960
That's that. 
Starts, you start turn off. 

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00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,480
Turn off when you go through 
this hurricane and then when you

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00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,559
see that in there, there the 
monkeys successively with each 

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00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,600
cohort after the hurricane that 
we sample, like they're less 

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flexible like so teenage monkey 
looks like an elderly monkey, 

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00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,400
but going through the hurricane 
one year in the aftermath. 

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So I think it's more the 
devastating environment. 

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It's like aging 2 years for 
them. 

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Accelerated the aging. 
Accelerated aging, and that has 

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00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,800
continued. 
Now what's really important to 

156
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,360
note though is that there's a 
lot of variation. 

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Some monkeys aged a lot and some
monkeys were. 

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So they're vulnerable and some 
monkeys are really resilient. 

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And so that's a key question for
us. 

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And This is why we come back to 
the social brain network, 

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because now when we look at how 
the monkeys responded to the 

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storm, the storm that the, you 
know, their world is turned 

163
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,400
upside down. 
There's no more shade. 

164
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,600
You know, it's a disaster area. 
And what did they do to this? 

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They fight over every little 
scrap. 

166
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,280
No, they, they did the exact 
opposite. 

167
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They suddenly became super 
intensively social like monkeys.

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00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,000
The foundation of a social 
relationship in monkey society 

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is grooming. 
They go and they, you know, 

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00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,760
you've seen them, kind of. 
Pictures. 

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00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,280
That's the number one social 
behavior. 

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That's how they build and 
sustain a relationship. 

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Wow, another monkey. 
And every investment like that 

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00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,920
pays off later. 
It might pay off in you know 

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00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,000
it's going to pay off in some 
grooming now, but that's if you 

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00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,440
groom an alpha male or alpha 
female. 

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00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,800
They're going to come help you 
in a fight maybe 2 years from 

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now. 
So it it just like humans, 

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right? 
It's. 

180
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:09,920
Like you buy me a coffee. 
It's. 

181
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,720
Like going to get a beer or 
something. 

182
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,840
You know, we go to Union League,
you know, we had dinner. 

183
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,560
That's that's the same thing, 
right? 

184
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,560
It's building that relationship.
And what we saw is that like 

185
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,640
suddenly monkeys who didn't 
really groom with anybody else 

186
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,000
are grooming everybody 
massively. 

187
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,040
Everybody, entire groups, all 
the groups are like massively 

188
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,840
so, so grooming way up. 
They're investing in social 

189
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relationships, friendliness way 
up, tolerance way up and 

190
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,920
aggression way down. 
And we reported that like 2 

191
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,840
years after the hurricane, but 
we've still been studying them 

192
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,440
and it turns out they're still 
that way. 

193
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,160
That's what's so shocking. 
And this is the killer app here.

194
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,240
When you ask like the why the So
what? 

195
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,920
The friendliest monkeys who had 
the most connections had a 50% 

196
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,960
higher likelihood of surviving 
the seven years after the 

197
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,840
hurricane than those who were 
the least friendly monkeys. 

198
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,520
OK, so it's a survival 
advantage, right? 

199
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,880
And it's interesting because you
know, Julia Holt Lundstadt's 

200
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,640
work in epidemiology public 
health has shown over A7 year 

201
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,800
period, humans who have more 
social support and are exposed 

202
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,000
to trauma have a 50% higher 
likelihood of. 

203
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,360
That's absolutely brilliant. 
So it's and at the. 

204
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,920
Core of all of that would be the
social brain, yeah. 

205
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,440
And in fact, this is very 
preliminary data, but when we've

206
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,000
done brain scans on these 
monkeys, monkeys who survived 

207
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,280
the hurricane, their social 
brain networks are larger. 

208
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,400
So we don't know if it's 
actually, we still have to do 

209
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,120
the Histology and you know, 
etcetera, gene expression. 

210
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,320
But those monkeys who you know, 
all the monkeys after the 

211
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,720
hurricane are really social and 
their social brain networks are 

212
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,040
bigger, right? 
And so this is really cool too, 

213
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,760
because it tells us that, and 
this is a lesson for 

214
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,280
neuroscience is it's generally 
practiced. 

215
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,680
There is a huge capacity or 
flexibility in the brain right 

216
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:11,360
to adapt to the environment. 
So before the hurricane, you 

217
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,480
know, having a few friends was 
useful but otherwise not worth 

218
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,720
my, you know, time and effort. 
After the hurricane, wow, 

219
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,600
suddenly. 
This is my this. 

220
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,400
Is my whole life, this is how 
I'm going to survive this 

221
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,160
competitive advantage. 
And so I'm going to put 

222
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,960
everything into that, right? 
And yet in laboratory studies, 

223
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,160
we typically don't. 
Yeah. 

224
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,440
We, we just assume everything's 
always the same, right? 

225
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,480
And so, and I think that that's 
also the reason why we see so 

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much variation in human social 
tendencies, because what's 

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adaptive, what's favorable, you 
know what, what can depends a 

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lot on the circumstances, right?
And we also saw this in monkeys 

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in a, in a study, a paper we 
published. 

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It was basically an anecdote, 
but we got to publish. 

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But this was about 10 years ago.
It was interesting because we, 

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we, we'd been studying this, 
the, the dominant group and it's

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very big and it had the best 
territory on the top of this 

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mountain, basically. 
And they kick all the other 

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groups out of there. 
Wow. 

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And then suddenly, out of 
nowhere, there was this, just 

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this spasm of violence, and 
monkeys were fighting each 

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other. 
Within the within the dominant. 

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Group yeah, within that within 
that group but in the center of 

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the social network that's what's
really important like the most 

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dominant families and monkeys 
who are in the middle of 

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everybody took. 
Some really. 

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Well, it was so so the spasm of 
violence monkeys died. 

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The group broke up into like 
four or five daughter groups 

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that got kicked out of the good 
territory because they couldn't 

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hold the territory anymore. 
And so we went back in the 

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records to see what in the world
was going on. 

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Somebody takes somebody's bet. 
What what happened was monkeys 

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were losing the capacity to 
service all those relationships 

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with each other with through 
grooming. 

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So they're getting more 
cliquish, spending too much time

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with just their few besties and 
not distributing, you know, 

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making sure that they're keeping
their alliances and friendships 

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with everybody, you know, warm. 
You got to keep that network 

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warm. 
And they weren't doing it. 

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And then we don't know what 
actually triggered. 

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It was all his violence. 
That was interesting. 

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Is that so those animals, when, 
you know, the crap hit the fan, 

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It was really bad to be in the 
center of everything. 

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But if you're a wallflower on 
the outskirts, those monkeys, 

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they didn't get hurt and they 
just kind of melted away and 

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attached themselves to, you 
know, other groups loosely 

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affiliated. 
So it. 

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I feel like you just described 
the history of human 

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civilization. 
Like you think about like, you 

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know, different empires rising 
and falling, you know, You know,

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maybe, you know, right before 
the rise there was some kind of 

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traumatic experience or a war 
that was one that brought 

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everybody together. 
You know, analogous to say like 

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this phase of grooming, high, 
high grooming, but then you get 

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comfortable and then you start 
to maybe engage in, I don't 

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know, depending on on on your 
theorist or philosopher, like, 

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you know, hedonistic or selfish 
pleasure seeking behavior that 

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ultimately. 
You turn inward. 

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Starts to create like a caste 
system of of and then and then 

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create. 
You just need something to some 

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spark or something that that you
know, creates that heightens the

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schism. 
And then you have conflict and 

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and yeah, unity is is. 
Yeah. 

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And when an empire is so 
far-flung and you've got so 

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many, you know, different 
cultures, and I think that it 

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could become Britain, like the 
Roman Empire, it'd be very 

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difficult to keep it all 
connected. 

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And like we're all one, you 
know, we are all on the same 

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team. 
That's a harder proposition 

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because you're just not having 
those contacts, you know, and 

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connections. 
And so, you know, in some sense,

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maybe there's a like with our 
digital age, yeah, maybe there's

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a way to leverage that. 
I don't know because the 

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technology doesn't really work 
with our brains in the way that 

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IRL works. 
I don't know. 

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00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,800
I'm just throwing this out there
that maybe there is because of 

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00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,880
the way to because it's a, it's 
a medium that allows for maybe 

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00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:26,280
there's. 
A way to. 

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Massive scaling through our. 
Phones or. 

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00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,480
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm 
saying. 

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So hard hasn't happened. 
But I would argue that this is 

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where leadership comes in, 
right? 

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00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,440
It's it, it very much at those 
moments, you know, where, where,

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00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,120
where we've won and we're now 
comfortable. 

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You need something or somebody 
or some people to keep the group

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00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:57,280
focused on, on a, on a purpose, 
on an aligned purpose, or else 

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00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,600
you can sort of degenerate or 
devolve into you know, you know 

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00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,480
a range of different. 
Yeah, I mean that sense of 

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00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,800
meaning and purpose and 
connection and engagement is 

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00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,400
critical. 
I've, you know, I have had the 

307
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,839
opportunities to advise, for 
example, in Microsoft work Lab, 

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00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,640
you know, and they do these 
reports every year. 

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00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,520
And, and one from a couple of 
years ago was really telling 

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00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,040
because what they did is they 
they looked at several million 

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00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,520
employees and this was over the 
year 2022. 

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00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,720
So it was like during, yeah, 
huge sample size coming out of 

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00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,760
pandemic. 
And they looked at firm value as

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a function of time, as a 
function of engagement. 

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00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:41,840
And this was using their Viva 
glint engagement index, which is

316
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,720
a combination of like, how 
connected do you feel to the 

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00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,800
company, to your Co workers and 
your sense of meaning and 

318
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,200
purpose? 
You know that that's like, 

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00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,160
because a lot of what we derive,
the value we derive out of work 

320
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,080
is not just a paycheck. 
It's like what we, you know, the

321
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,760
intangibles that we get from our
relationships at work and 

322
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,680
feeling sense of connection. 
Are we working together on 

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00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,920
something bigger than ourselves,
right. 

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00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,520
That's what you want in a job, 
not just. 

325
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,800
Kind of. 
That's why somebody will take a 

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00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,800
job where they're making less. 
Correct, absolutely right. 

327
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,680
And what was interesting is that
the companies with the highest 

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00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,160
engagement index not only 
outperform just their value and 

329
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,400
it got bigger over the course of
that year, the ones with the 

330
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,480
least engaged employees, but 
outperformed the S&P 500 

331
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,760
significantly. 
So that's the slide that I 

332
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,120
always show to like CE OS what I
was saying, like, why do you 

333
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:32,480
need to invest in social 
connection and, you know, 

334
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,320
amongst your employees and for 
them with you and with the 

335
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,240
company. 
This is the reason why 

336
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,000
presumably because they're more 
productive, they're more 

337
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,920
creative. 
They're, you know, they're more 

338
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,680
effective at what they do. 
They're, you know, they're 

339
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,440
they're going to be mentally, 
you know, healthier, physically 

340
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,000
healthier, miss less work 
because of all those. 

341
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,320
So there's just a whole bunch of
different levers that end up 

342
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:02,080
getting, you know, pulled on 
when you create a culture of 

343
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,320
connection. 
Workplace. 

344
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:05,800
That's beautiful.