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Hello, welcome to the Retail 
podcast live from NRF. 

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I'm here with Twilio CMO. 
Regional CMO, VP of marketing 

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for Twilio A PJ. 
Nicholas Kontopoulos 

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Contopoulos. 
Actually quite easier to say 

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than Reed, which which always 
makes me nervous. 

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I have a horrible habit of 
getting the names really wrong, 

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so it's off to a flying start. 
Got the right name company at 

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the right start. 
All off to a great start. 

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I I've seen you guys literally 
everywhere, you know, in terms 

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of solution provider at 
conferences. 

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But for those who don't know you
and and what you are all about, 

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can you just all give us an 
overview? 

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Of virtual yeah, yeah, I mean 
truly is a communications 

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company. 
That's where we started. 

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We started out in the world of 
SMS and Jeff who was the founder

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of, created the category, I 
guess you could say of CPASS or 

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help create that category. 
Yeah. 

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But we've evolved over the 
years. 

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We've now become a customer 
engagement platform. 

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Yeah, able to help customers 
basically create a channel 

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that's customer experience. 
So you know, whether it's SMS, 

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WhatsApp, e-mail, we'll provide 
a set of solutions that enable 

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you to engage your customers in 
a frictionless fashion. 

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We've all through that journey. 
We also acquired a company 

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called Segment, which brought in
a CDP capabilities and that's 

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now enabling us to really tailor
our experiences through the 

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channel of preference with our 
customers. 

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So yeah, really exciting times 
to be a toilet. 

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So I can imagine an event like 
this. 

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You must be in a really happy 
and positive way, overrun with 

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customer meetings. 
I'm just curious what's at the 

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top of everyone's mind when 
they're coming to talk to you 

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right now? 
What's the problem they're 

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trying? 
To solve, I mean there's 

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obviously every customer's got 
different problems, Yeah, but 

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you know, not just attracting 
customers, but retaining and 

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converting and retaining and 
become two key areas I'm seeing 

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a lot of businesses really 
focusing in on. 

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That seems to be a common theme 
across the customers. 

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Do you feel so from a customer 
journey perspective in terms of 

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the communication circle that 
you must work with your 

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customers in? 
Is it like at the front end like

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when they're registering or is 
it like literally at any part 

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from delivery? 
In terms of what they're looking

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to solve. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, against holistically. 
So it can depends who you're 

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talking to, where they sit in 
the organisation. 

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But if you're talking with CMO's
or heads of customer experience,

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obviously looking at the 
holistic experience, yeah. 

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And looking at it not only in 
how they can attract those 

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customers, but again, as I sort 
of said, retain, convert and 

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retain, looking at how they can 
increase lifetime value and also

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just to create more richer 
experience whether it's through 

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the digital or physical world. 
So those you know, the physical 

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world, they're looking at how 
they. 

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Can you guys sit in the middle 
of, I mean, that's the way I, I 

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see how if I'm in a physical 
store signing up for some 

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something that's the connection 
to digital, which I think you 

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guys bridge. 
I mean, actually it's from 

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pretty much any part of the 
journey, whether you're signing 

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up in store or on your mobile on
the train, you know, we, we help

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power companies abilities to 
help onboard you as a customer. 

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We're OTP processes right 
through to, as I said, you know,

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taking that data that we're 
collecting about you and then 

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using that to enrich the offers 
that we make to you again 

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through the physical or digital 
channels. 

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Yeah. 
And, and is there something that

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this year has really surprised 
you like, you know, when you're 

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in a customer meeting or you're 
like, is there, is there 

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something that's just you 
weren't, you weren't expecting 

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that? 
No, why, what, what have I am 

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pleasantly surprised. 
That is just the willingness for

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folks to really take a really 
close look at AI in a new 

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through a new lens. 
So obviously a I is not new. 

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It's been around for a while, 
but we're generating AI coming 

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on. 
It's obviously presenting a 

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whole new host of new 
possibilities for businesses. 

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So a lot of retailers are now 
really looking at how can they 

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get predictive and generative AI
working together in a way they 

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can enable them to, you know, Dr
increased value for the 

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customers, but also help them 
scale and reduce cost in their 

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businesses as well. 
And then is there any, I mean, 

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we're hearing grocery or food, 
but I, I assume you guys must go

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across all categories, right? 
There isn't one category that 

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stands out more than the. 
Other, I mean whether you're a 

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pure ecommerce vendor through to
a traditional bricks and 

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mortars, we work across all 
those categories from a retail 

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perspective. 
Yeah and again each is coming at

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the same problem from different 
vantage points. 

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Obviously ecommerce vendors are 
you know that were pure 

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ecommerce vendors are looking at
how they can move into retail 

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spaces and great retail 
experiences in the retail 

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businesses have been heavily 
focused on looking at how they 

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can improve their digital 
experiences. 

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Biggest inhibitor I see 
typically is not necessarily the

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technology, it's actually 
operationally organizationally. 

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So these are the types of 
challenges a lot of our 

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customers we're working with is 
helping them reframe their way. 

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They think about how they set 
their businesses up. 

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Because again, if we look at the
most organisational structures, 

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they've been created around 
quite honestly, 19th, 20th 

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century business operating 
practises, right? 

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So we're really a lot of the, 
especially the traditional 

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businesses are looking at how 
they can reimagine the way they 

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organise themselves around their
customers and use technology as 

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an enabler to have more 
meaningful interactions with 

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their customers. 
But most importantly, to also 

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help their employees deliver on 
their brand promise. 

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Because this is the other thing 
I think we often talk about 

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customer experience. 
Yeah, but what about the 

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employee experience? 
And again, this is an area that 

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we're having a lot of great 
conversations with our 

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customers. 
What does that look like? 

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You know, you sort of run for an
example. 

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Ohh, yeah. 
I mean, good simple example 

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might be if you're a retailer 
has a call centre capability. 

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Yeah. 
And obviously those call centre 

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agents are there to feel cause 
obviously giving them access to 

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the information that enable them
to have meaningful, impactful 

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conversations, you know, with 
the customer as they call in. 

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You know, it really is quite 
critical. 

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And especially we see that when 
that isn't the case, you see 

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high churn rates in terms of 
staff as a result of that. 

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Yeah. 
So how can you know through the 

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smart use of technology, but 
also the reimagining of the 

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people process side of the 
equation is absolutely critical 

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if you're going to drive 
transformational change. 

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It's not just technology alone 
as those three elements coming 

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together. 
Ohh, I love that. 

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Yeah. 
In terms of the the messaging 

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platforms, what's happened sort 
of ruled the roost for for a 

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long time, specifically in in 
Europe. 

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Yeah. 
I'm just curious here with the 

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plethora of messaging apps that 
you have. 

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Yeah. 
Do you, do you see any trends? 

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Are there anything, is there 
anything happening in that 

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world? 
There's no one channel. 

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This is the problem. 
I mean for businesses, this is 

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the reality. 
Like again I sort of referenced 

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earlier this idea of having we 
talked about Omni channel for a 

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long time and it's become a very
channel sort of or technology 

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specific conversation. 
What I'm challenging customers 

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to think about is the channel's 
experience and the reality is 

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you and I will have different 
channel preferences. 

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Yeah, you might start in through
an SMS engagement, I wanna start

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an e-mail or chat part or I 
might want to talk to a human. 

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Everyone's different. 
So this is the real challenge 

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for businesses. 
The problem they have is that 

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historically those channels are 
being set up in a much silo, 

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very siloed fashion in the 
organisation and. 

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Experience, right? 
Exactly. 

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You can have a different e-mail 
experience with different. 

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Messaging and that's what the 
that's where we come in to try 

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to help customers through our 
customer engagement capabilities

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deliver a solution that enables 
you to bring those channels 

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together in a much more 
integrated fashion so that if 

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I'm serving you, I'm you know 
I've got a clearer understanding

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of who you are, which channel 
you you've come through to us 

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before on what are the issues 
you've raised and how having 

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that aggregated view and 
enabling me to have a more 

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meaningful conversation with you
is really at the heart of what 

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we're trying to help I've got. 
You with this, this is a tech 

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question, so I don't mind if if 
because I haven't prepped you 

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for it. 
But in terms of the number of 

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channels that you've seen, like 
what are we? 

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Look what we're talking about in
terms of like, because you know,

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I can think about e-mail. 
I can think about. 

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I'm just curious. 
It's like, I mean. 

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Is there a number? 
I don't know if there is an 

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actual number, I haven't got a 
number that jumped straight out.

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But the reality is, is that the,
the challenge is that the, the 

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channels keep evolving, right 
And new channels come online. 

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And the real challenge also for 
businesses, if you think about 

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it, is how do I create content 
and serve that content up 

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through the right? 
I know, yeah, the form factor of

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contents changing. 
So there's a lot of, as a 

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marketing leader, that's 
something I'm always thinking 

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about. 
Right? 

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Yeah. 
So you've gotta. 

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Yeah. 
I actually think it's about 

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putting in place the 
capabilities that enable you to 

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scale up with existing channels,
but also potentially bring on 

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new channels as and when they 
come. 

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OK. 
And then just jumping little bit

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back to AI in terms of you 
talking about your AI 

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capabilities, because I mean, I 
talk about retail experiences 

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being like a conversation, 
right? 

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A good conversation, you wanna 
stay in a bad conversation, you 

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wanna leave. 
Yeah. 

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Where does the AI bit come in? 
Like what? 

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What elements of AI would you 
help me as a retailer? 

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Yeah. 
I mean, we've got, again, 

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historically we've had a a long 
history in terms of the segment 

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2 segment capability, CDP with 
predictive AI. 

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What we're now bringing in is 
building on those capabilities 

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and the predictive side, but 
also marrying that with the 

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generative AI capabilities. 
So actually we demoed a really 

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cool demo just yesterday. 
So we haven't shown you that. 

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I've got to show you that. 
OK, lay down where, you know, we

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can actually deploy, you know, 
chatbot or or you know, through 

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voice, actually through a voice 
channel AVR. 

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Yeah, the ability to talk to it,
AI, which, OK, very human 

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sounding, actually has an Aussie
accent. 

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Alright, you got kitchen eyes in
the background. 

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It's you. 
I'm placing an order from a 

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pizza perspective. 
I can actually have a 

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conversation with the AI and 
actually I wouldn't even know 

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that that is an AI that I'm 
talking to. 

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The cool thing about that is as 
I'm having that conversation, 

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I'm sharing insights about what 
my preferences are for pizzas, 

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etcetera. 
That data is being collected and

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actually mapped against my 
profile, so from future. 

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Calls. 
Yeah, can be brought back into 

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the conversation with the AI to 
say, hey, Nicholas, did you want

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the ham and cheese? 
Pineapple pizza again? 

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It kills. 
Me Friday night pizza time 

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pizza. 
I I need to recommend them to 

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come to you guys because every 
time you have to put the same 

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well, you order back in exactly 
to get it. 

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You mentioned the future and as 
we sort of come to a close on 

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this, where do you see the 
future going? 

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How, What? 
What's like the vision of the 

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future? 
Here, what's the vision of the 

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future? 
That's a big one. 

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I'm, I'm not a big, I don't like
trying to predict the future 

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because it's, it's always hard. 
But I, I do feel that what we're

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going to start to see is 
businesses reimagine the way 

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they organise themselves 
internally around their 

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customers. 
Again, as I sort of signalled 

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00:10:38,780 --> 00:10:41,660
earlier, I think a lot of 
businesses still very operate, 

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still much structured around old
world operating model. 

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Yeah. 
And it does require more 

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innovation in how we actually 
structure our organisations and 

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how do we empower those 
individuals have more, you know,

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have the capabilities to 
actually drive change inside 

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their organisation. 
So I think the future for retail

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or as well as, yeah, if you 
think about it, you know, when 

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with the advent of ecommerce, 
you know, it's how do I bring 

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ecommerce and digital channels 
and integrate them more 

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seamlessly with the retail 
traditional channels. 

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Again, I see a lot of challenges
there where they're still 

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operating those in silos. 
Yeah. 

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And you know, I kind of 100%, 
yeah. 

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So I think that's the future 
really innovating the actual 

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business models that we use to 
operate our businesses against I

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think will be a key area of 
innovation. 

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Yeah, I mean, I, I was at 
Shanghai the week before I came 

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here and the one thing that was 
so evident there, technology 

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almost sort of dissipates. 
It's so irrelevant. 

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It's about how you engage the 
customer for for the life cycle,

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right? 
How are they gonna? 

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Are you gonna be with them? 
And it's always changing. 

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That's the other thing. 
That's the other thing that 

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consumer behaviour is always 
evolving. 

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So there's, there's no silver 
bullet here like to say there's 

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a silver bullet there is. 
You have to be constantly 

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adapting and leaning into that 
customer experience and employee

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experience and helping. 
Basically, those two have a 

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meaningful engagement. 
Experience, yeah, it's how much 

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data you lose as well. 
But again, that's a whole 

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because just listening, going 
through like all the data that 

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you're capturing about my pizza,
how much of that is? 

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Lost. 
Well, that actually really good 

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point. 
If you're thinking about it from

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an internal perspective, sort of
what I said earlier about 

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collapsing the silos. 
Yeah. 

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The big challenge it faces, most
organisations, this idea of dark

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data are not familiar with that.
No, no, no, God no. 

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Coined the term, got data. 
OK, Dark data, and I love it. 

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Most of the data that we have is
siloed in our organisations 

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based around functions. 
So this is again, where the 

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innovation will come and this is
where we're helping. 

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If you look at Twilio segment, 
we're helping brands unlock that

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dark data across the 
organisation and bring that 

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together so that I can engage 
you through the right channel 

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based on your preference. 
Right. 

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So that will be where a key part
of the innovation comes, not 

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just from the technology, but as
I said earlier, how we organise 

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ourselves internally around that
data. 

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I think it's going to be 
important. 

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Final question. 
I've got so many more questions,

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but like integration, is it? 
Is it difficult? 

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Is this like something that's 
gonna take me like months System

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00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:00,500
integrator to how quickly can I 
get value from? 

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00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:03,290
This I mean, obviously I I can't
give you an exact time without. 

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00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:05,960
Knowing how big I am, yeah. 
One of the things that Twilio is

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strong at is we're an API LED 
company, so assemblies are much,

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00:13:10,330 --> 00:13:13,770
much more agile to deploy. 
What I love about it is we can 

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drop our capabilities in on 
existing legacy applications and

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00:13:18,450 --> 00:13:21,380
actually help you extract value 
out of those quite quickly in 

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that respect. 
But obviously it depends. 

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On the use case. 
But yeah. 

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I'll give you like final 
question like fine, do you find 

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that e-commerce is driving more 
than physical? 

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00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:34,390
Then no, actually, interestingly
I think there's not one of. 

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This is the last question. 
It's a great question and actual

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00:13:37,230 --> 00:13:39,180
fact. 
I think everyone thought as we 

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came out of COVID, ecommerce was
going to be the primary channel.

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00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:45,600
We haven't seen that. 
What we've seen actually was 

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people flow back into physical, 
but it's the interplay between 

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the two that's becoming 
increasingly. 

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Important. 
And how you connect those 

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00:13:52,810 --> 00:13:56,530
experiences, whether it's in the
store or in the digital format, 

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00:13:56,540 --> 00:13:59,200
and having a seamless experience
is absolutely critical. 

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00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:00,080
Yeah. 
Fantastic. 

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00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:01,320
I love it. 
Thank you so much. 

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00:14:01,330 --> 00:14:02,680
Pleasure mate, No problem at 
all. 

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00:14:02,910 --> 00:14:03,380
Cheers.