1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,560 Hello and welcome back to the Retail Podcast. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,880 Now today we're going to take a slight detour from our 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:10,440 traditional focus on retail technology and what's going on 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,000 in the world of retail customer experience data and AI and 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,640 actually look at product. I'm joined by Liam White, Doctor 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:23,120 Wills who Liam is the CEO of and cofounder of a basically 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,480 condiment business. But they're probably one of the 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,320 fastest growing condom in businesses in the UK, if not the 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,200 fastest growing. And they are already available 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,600 in grocers such as Tesco's. But this isn't about condiments, 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,120 this is about our lives, about sugar, about sustainability, 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,240 about B Corp. But Liam, before we get into all 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,400 of that, I'd love to sort of unpack who you are, how you got 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,400 here and actually to help us what what I'm doing, we're 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,620 launching a retail news website and it's retail news dot A I and 16 00:00:55,740 --> 00:00:57,300 it'll be launched somewhere in the summer. 17 00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:01,260 And what what we're doing is using obviously A I to produce 18 00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:02,900 the content 10 and all the other things. 19 00:01:03,060 --> 00:01:06,140 So I asked the A I to give me a view of you. 20 00:01:06,260 --> 00:01:09,340 So I'm hoping this is in in light. 21 00:01:09,340 --> 00:01:12,860 So let me read it to you. And actually the first part 22 00:01:12,860 --> 00:01:15,660 talks about Doctor Wills, UK's first all natural condiment 23 00:01:15,660 --> 00:01:17,980 brand. And this is Liam, the cofounder 24 00:01:17,980 --> 00:01:21,080 and CEO of Doctor Wills introduced the brand as a maker 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,520 of naturally sweet and delicious products that demonstrate 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,600 superiority of natural sugar sources over artificial 27 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,400 alternatives. And actually really topical 28 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,600 because that was in the news this week with one of the major 29 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,040 beverage companies being infected with the use of the 30 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,440 artificial sweetener and one of their products. 31 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,760 But let's get down to who you are. 32 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,040 Sorry I got it wrong. It's available at Tesco's 33 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,880 Waitrose, Ocado, Holland and Barra and independent farm shops 34 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,350 and delis up and down the countries there you are. 35 00:01:50,350 --> 00:01:54,150 Liam's professional background includes JPMorgan McKenzie, 36 00:01:54,150 --> 00:01:58,430 Credit Suisse, Rothschild and A and a testimonial on your page 37 00:01:58,430 --> 00:02:02,230 braces Liam passion for his days like it's funny. 38 00:02:02,230 --> 00:02:06,870 But anyway, your passion in in bringing innovative and healthy 39 00:02:06,870 --> 00:02:11,350 products to market. So how do you go from banking to 40 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:15,510 making a a better eating environment for the UK 41 00:02:15,950 --> 00:02:18,870 population? Yeah, it's probably not the most 42 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:21,310 traditional journey. Interestingly, there's a 43 00:02:21,990 --> 00:02:26,070 surprising number of like ex investment banking food founders 44 00:02:26,070 --> 00:02:28,230 in the UK. I've come across a handful when 45 00:02:28,230 --> 00:02:29,990 I've been at kind of, you know, networking events and things 46 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:31,790 like that. So although it sounds like a 47 00:02:31,790 --> 00:02:34,510 very odd, nontraditional journey, there are a few others 48 00:02:34,510 --> 00:02:36,630 doing it. And yeah, I started my career 49 00:02:37,550 --> 00:02:39,710 after a series of internships at JP Morgan. 50 00:02:40,430 --> 00:02:43,990 Unanimous there in investment banking, which is pretty. 51 00:02:45,510 --> 00:02:47,910 Tough working environment, You work really hard, lots of hours 52 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:51,990 and yeah, like really interesting place to work. 53 00:02:51,990 --> 00:02:55,670 But I quickly realized that I was quite entrepreneurial. 54 00:02:55,670 --> 00:03:00,390 I've always had aspirations to run my own business and I also 55 00:03:00,710 --> 00:03:04,070 like working in kind of larger companies is quite hierarchical 56 00:03:04,070 --> 00:03:06,550 and it takes a long time to kind of work your way up. 57 00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:09,590 And I wanted to kind of move a bit quicker than that if I 58 00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:12,520 could. My mom is a food writer, so 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,680 there's some personal inspiration there. 60 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,960 And so it kind of grew up like surrounded by lots of good food 61 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,640 and interested in interested in what's on the supermarket 62 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:25,320 shelves but also in kind of restaurants and kind of end of 63 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,080 the TIF cuisine. And then, yeah, a couple of 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,520 years into the bank journey, I met Will and Josh, who are my 65 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,320 business partners, who had the idea for essentially A healthier 66 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,200 range of condiments. So. 67 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,400 We were looking looking at the the market and seeing that 68 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,480 everything was was getting healthier. 69 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,720 So if you look at snacks we were going from crisp and chocolate 70 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,520 to protein bars and popcorn and you know graze with nuts things 71 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,960 like that. And then there was also this 72 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,600 whole craft scene that was going wild. 73 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,040 So craft beers and like, you know, gin distilleries popping 74 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 up all over the place, Fever Tree doing an amazing job with 75 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,800 the mixers and we just kind of realized that, you know, people 76 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,720 were trying to make that plate as healthy as possible. 77 00:04:07,590 --> 00:04:09,750 But we're sort of unaware of just, you know, they're adding 78 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:12,510 the same source, same condiments they've added for years and 79 00:04:12,510 --> 00:04:15,270 years and often they're loaded with sugar. 80 00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:17,910 And we just thought we could do a better job, but equally use 81 00:04:17,910 --> 00:04:20,390 the best quality ingredients and make them really, really tasty 82 00:04:20,390 --> 00:04:21,990 at the same time. Because that's, you know, that's 83 00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:23,070 that's the purpose of a condiment. 84 00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:25,510 And that was the air back in 2017 when we started our journey 85 00:04:26,150 --> 00:04:30,030 and and I assume you're still your Forbes 30 under 30, you're 86 00:04:30,030 --> 00:04:34,740 still under 30. I'm 30, so thankfully, 87 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:36,580 thankfully you keep it even when you were. 88 00:04:36,740 --> 00:04:41,420 When you get there, they don't. They don't just say, well, 89 00:04:41,660 --> 00:04:43,860 actually, no, I'm 30 and 30 anyway. 90 00:04:44,260 --> 00:04:47,180 I was 28 when I got it. Yeah, OK, all right. 91 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:49,700 That explains it. If you were being able to go 92 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:54,340 back to younger self and have a chat with him to help him get to 93 00:04:54,340 --> 00:04:57,220 where you are now, what would you like to say to him? 94 00:04:57,260 --> 00:05:00,020 What would you say to him? Yeah, I think. 95 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:04,850 I think you often get really caught up in the minutia of your 96 00:05:04,850 --> 00:05:09,010 of your day today and you know problems that are absolutely 97 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:11,970 problems and things that have, you know, big challenges for you 98 00:05:11,970 --> 00:05:15,250 at that time, you know undoubtedly will get solved and 99 00:05:15,250 --> 00:05:18,370 when you kind of zoom out, I think you know. 100 00:05:18,410 --> 00:05:21,170 So as you get hung up on quite small things and I think I would 101 00:05:21,170 --> 00:05:24,130 just try and just enjoy every, you know, each, each phase of my 102 00:05:24,130 --> 00:05:27,390 life and you know, everybody. Says to, you know when you're at 103 00:05:27,390 --> 00:05:29,190 university somewhere a few years old, it says, you know these 104 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:31,270 might be the best in your life. Enjoy them and all that kind of 105 00:05:31,270 --> 00:05:32,430 stuff. And you sort of listen to them 106 00:05:32,430 --> 00:05:34,870 and sort of not a long ago and you really taken that stuff. 107 00:05:34,870 --> 00:05:37,950 And I think I would just, yeah try and try and listen to listen 108 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:40,470 to that advice as much as possible and just, you know like 109 00:05:40,470 --> 00:05:44,430 just enjoy every stage of the journey for what it is and yeah, 110 00:05:44,430 --> 00:05:47,230 not get, not get too hung up on kind of where you're headed and 111 00:05:47,230 --> 00:05:49,590 things like that. I think if you know if you work 112 00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:51,550 hard and you have a, you have a bit of a plan. 113 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:55,540 You know, those things can can fall into place. 114 00:05:56,220 --> 00:05:58,940 And I think, yeah, I think lots of us are sometimes like too 115 00:05:58,940 --> 00:06:02,140 guilty of being like really, really obsessed with you know, 116 00:06:02,620 --> 00:06:03,740 obsessed with. With. 117 00:06:04,780 --> 00:06:06,660 Yeah, for sure. Definitely in terms of putting 118 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:09,740 that in terms of and obviously you're just 30, right. 119 00:06:09,740 --> 00:06:14,060 So I don't want to like, you know, the guest that I just 120 00:06:14,740 --> 00:06:17,540 recorded an interview with was obviously in his 50s. 121 00:06:17,860 --> 00:06:20,220 And so you know there's there's that journey and I think it's 122 00:06:20,220 --> 00:06:24,290 important to to to reflect on that it is a journey that people 123 00:06:24,290 --> 00:06:26,170 are on. But I'm curious from a from a 124 00:06:26,170 --> 00:06:31,490 business perspective raising capital, doing everything, what 125 00:06:31,490 --> 00:06:34,410 are the lessons that you've learned because you've done the, 126 00:06:34,450 --> 00:06:37,330 the, the biggest, you've jumped that biggest hurdle you funded, 127 00:06:37,490 --> 00:06:40,770 you're in shops, you had to go through so much pain to get to 128 00:06:40,770 --> 00:06:42,370 that. Well, what for you? 129 00:06:42,370 --> 00:06:45,210 Were those major milestones or hurdles that you have to get 130 00:06:45,210 --> 00:06:46,610 over? Yeah. 131 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:50,330 And that's not to say that there's not another new set of 132 00:06:50,330 --> 00:06:52,140 hurdles that you've got to. Get over. 133 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:54,100 Yeah. No there that there will be for 134 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:56,420 sure. I think something my, you know I 135 00:06:56,420 --> 00:07:00,020 was guilty in the early stages of so I'd have I speak to my FD 136 00:07:00,020 --> 00:07:04,180 quite a lot who's been more experienced and has now he's 137 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:09,300 he's in his 50s not if not 60s and as you know seen a lot more 138 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:11,820 than I have and and I'd say I just need to get through this 139 00:07:11,820 --> 00:07:13,940 stage and then we'll be OK and he'd say we do need to get 140 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:15,660 through this stage but then there'll be another challenge 141 00:07:15,660 --> 00:07:18,420 and he's absolutely right you know you can you think that you 142 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:20,000 know. You've got the only challenges 143 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,480 now, but there will be different and bigger challenges in the 144 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,120 future I think. Yeah, if you break it down, I 145 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,320 think launching the product at the very start will be the first 146 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,200 thing. So finding a manufacturer and 147 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,000 then creating a commercially available product, I guess 148 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,120 finding manufactured in the Where is the product 149 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,760 manufactured? Yeah, in the UK. 150 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,240 So, yeah, about an hour and a half outside London, obviously 151 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,340 there. So, yeah, all in the UK, yeah, 152 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:49,060 getting up on it made raising funds I'd say. 153 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:53,020 And then getting on to sort of launching initially into Daddy's 154 00:07:53,020 --> 00:07:56,260 and farm shops and kind of smaller retailers. 155 00:07:56,260 --> 00:07:58,500 Then getting into a few kind of prestigious places like 156 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:01,060 Selfridges that really kind of start to open doors for us. 157 00:08:01,380 --> 00:08:03,580 And then going on to the start to work with the big growth 158 00:08:03,580 --> 00:08:06,420 that's like Tesco, Waitrose, Ocado, those kind of guys. 159 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,280 I mean those are, yeah, those are some of the steps but 160 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,960 there's been you know millions on the journey, lots of you 161 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:13,400 know, building our product range. 162 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,920 So starting from basically ketchup and BBQ sauce at the 163 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,080 start through to a much fuller range of products now that span 164 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,680 kind of catch up mayonnaise, hot sauce, dressings. 165 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,960 So yeah, it's been you know, tons of learnings and tons of 166 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,360 like little miles stands along the way. 167 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,360 I think it's important to celebrate those because you 168 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,480 know, you're always going to have more challenges, whatever 169 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,720 stage you're at, and you've got to kind of celebrate the wins as 170 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,830 you go and it's all too easy to. You know, achieve something that 171 00:08:38,830 --> 00:08:41,669 you have been working on for ages and, you know, maybe a 172 00:08:41,669 --> 00:08:44,150 month or a year ago you'd have been over the moon to have 173 00:08:44,150 --> 00:08:46,150 achieved that. And you can get it kind of drawn 174 00:08:46,150 --> 00:08:48,590 into the next, you know, just the next challenge and often 175 00:08:48,590 --> 00:08:54,470 forget that that's true in terms of the culture that you're 176 00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:56,350 building. Obviously, I've watched one of 177 00:08:56,350 --> 00:08:58,670 the adverts that you've got out there and it's very sort of, you 178 00:08:58,670 --> 00:09:04,390 know, fun in that sense. As CEO, what type of culture are 179 00:09:04,390 --> 00:09:08,220 you looking to build? Yeah, it's really important to 180 00:09:08,220 --> 00:09:11,940 us to have a like a fun culture and trying to build a brand that 181 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:15,580 people want to, you know, people want to buy and but also the 182 00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:17,900 people want to work for. So we just try and be quite 183 00:09:17,900 --> 00:09:21,100 modern with how we do things. So I mean we've got you can look 184 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:23,420 at, look at our brand and you know we're the only guys that 185 00:09:23,420 --> 00:09:25,740 have pink ketchup. We have a massive exclamation 186 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:28,620 mark in front of the bottle and you know, it's sleek and we try. 187 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:30,820 We're trying to make a beautiful brand, but at the same time 188 00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:33,940 we're trying to do things a bit differently. 189 00:09:34,540 --> 00:09:38,060 And we're pretty unashamed about that and we want and you know, 190 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:41,620 we This is just, there you go and catch it. 191 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:43,620 Yeah, exactly. And like the kind of the reason 192 00:09:43,620 --> 00:09:46,700 for that is we were, you know, looking at ketchup, which is 193 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:49,340 ubiquitous product. Lots of people are pretty much 194 00:09:49,340 --> 00:09:52,060 sleepwalking down the supermarket aisle to go and grab 195 00:09:52,460 --> 00:09:54,340 their favorite brand of ketchup that they've bought for years 196 00:09:54,340 --> 00:09:57,260 and years or to buy a supermarket and enable product. 197 00:09:57,980 --> 00:10:00,660 And we have to stand out. So everybody has a pretty much a 198 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:03,020 white label and we decided to do. 199 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,120 To do a the pink label and the exclamation mark is is all 200 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,040 around kind of like stop and think think both about kind of 201 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,760 sugar but also about your condiments that quality about 202 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,120 you know extendability everything which is that big 203 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,240 kind of exclamation mark And then we use the different the 204 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,000 different point on every products and we've got the 205 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,160 tomato and the ketchup and then you know an egg for the 206 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,120 mayonnaise and then things like that chilly on the on the hot 207 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,400 sauce and so you know trying to keep it fun and playful but have 208 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,200 something that people want to you know want to have on the 209 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,360 table and then from a culture point of view in the business. 210 00:10:33,330 --> 00:10:35,410 Yeah, we just, you know, we're just normal people and I think 211 00:10:35,410 --> 00:10:39,330 like there's so much formality in in, in, in business that you 212 00:10:39,330 --> 00:10:41,330 know some of it is required but some of it really isn't. 213 00:10:41,650 --> 00:10:43,690 So we just have you know honest conversations with people. 214 00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:48,210 We try and just you know treat people like people and and just 215 00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:51,890 have a you know pretty try and be pretty as straightforward as 216 00:10:51,890 --> 00:10:56,250 you can be trust people to you know to to get the work done and 217 00:10:56,770 --> 00:10:59,610 and not be you know not be too over there. 218 00:11:00,330 --> 00:11:02,370 Yeah, I I got you. One of the things that was 219 00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:06,970 really interesting in terms of. Your your approach you obviously 220 00:11:07,010 --> 00:11:10,610 you're you're a young company but you went for B certification 221 00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:16,210 already how and I know there's a lot of green washing that 222 00:11:16,210 --> 00:11:18,450 happens. What's your honest take in terms 223 00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:21,410 of the sustainability elements and how how? 224 00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:23,770 Because I noticed again on the website and I'll, I'll, I'll 225 00:11:23,770 --> 00:11:26,770 bring it up about recycling and and and being. 226 00:11:27,170 --> 00:11:30,640 I'm just curious about how that measures within your part of 227 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,200 your culture and the organization. 228 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,440 Yeah, definitely. So it's really important to us. 229 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,920 So we decided quite early to to go for certification to become a 230 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,640 B Corp because I think it's a B Pop essentially is a commitment 231 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,240 to to Better Business. So you're you're committing to, 232 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,240 you know we're absolutely a forprofit business. 233 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,400 We're not, you know we're not charity, but you're committing 234 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,640 to balance profits, profits and purpose. 235 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,160 So you're, you know, you're not forgoing one for the other and 236 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,400 essentially it's a commitment from our side to do everything. 237 00:11:57,970 --> 00:12:00,610 To try and do Better Business and sustainability is 1 angle of 238 00:12:00,610 --> 00:12:03,410 it, but it's also you know doing right by your, by your customers 239 00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:05,810 and by your staff and that kind of anchors every decision we 240 00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:08,810 make in the business. And then from a sustainability 241 00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:10,210 point of view, you're absolutely right, there is a lot of 242 00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:13,130 greenwashing out there. So we just try and and to be 243 00:12:13,130 --> 00:12:17,290 clear, we're far from perfect. It's a journey that we're on and 244 00:12:17,290 --> 00:12:19,090 we've made. I think we've done some things 245 00:12:19,450 --> 00:12:20,730 really well. There's lots of like small 246 00:12:20,730 --> 00:12:23,210 things that we're that that that layer up and I'm a big believer 247 00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:25,490 in that, you know that's it's quite rare that there's like a 248 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:28,740 silver bullet that kind of. You know, fixes everything, but 249 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:32,340 quite often it's just this, it's like a series of good choices. 250 00:12:32,340 --> 00:12:35,980 So we just try and we use glass, but for a lot of our products 251 00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:38,820 and then we also use, we use squeezy like plastic squeezy 252 00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:40,820 bottle, but we've ensured that it's, you know, fully 253 00:12:40,820 --> 00:12:45,100 recyclable. The lids, the lids are also 254 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:47,140 recyclable. We're moving to labels. 255 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:50,500 They can all go in the same recycling streams. 256 00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:53,260 We just try to do just try to make all the right choices from 257 00:12:53,260 --> 00:12:56,400 like a packaging point of view. So like trying to figure out you 258 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,120 know what's the next thing cuz there the stuff that we have now 259 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:03,400 is really good for what is on the market, but also we're 260 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,400 looking at kind of big innovation is there, you know 261 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,640 things like sugar cane packaging and there's also interesting 262 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,040 things out there. So we're, you know, we're 263 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,480 absolutely keeping abreast of all of that stuff and trying to 264 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,640 make sure that yeah we can we can. 265 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,720 We just always think ahead with with sustainability and trying 266 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,600 to, yeah, trying to have the, you know, a robust like 267 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,320 sustainability sustainable supply chain. 268 00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:27,100 What surprised you when you were going through the creation? 269 00:13:27,460 --> 00:13:29,660 Cuz I'm noticing you guys did some research in terms of how 270 00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:34,100 much sugar was in other products and the impact your source of 271 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:37,820 sugar is through dates only Or do you use other sources of 272 00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:40,300 sweetness? Yeah, so dates primarily. 273 00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:42,140 So if you take ketchup for example. 274 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:47,380 You like all the there's there's a bit of sugar in in tomato for 275 00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:48,780 example. So you get you you'll get a 276 00:13:48,780 --> 00:13:51,140 little bit of the sugar will come from like a tomato or from 277 00:13:51,140 --> 00:13:53,860 an onion you know like natural sauces but they all come from 278 00:13:53,860 --> 00:13:57,780 natural fruit sources. So yeah, we've used, we have 279 00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:01,020 used the Garvey as well like in our sweet chili product but they 280 00:14:01,020 --> 00:14:03,540 all we try and use natural natural sugar sauces. 281 00:14:03,540 --> 00:14:05,980 So it's basically dates and tomatoes where the where the 282 00:14:05,980 --> 00:14:08,860 sweetness comes from in our ketchup and then just use less 283 00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:09,940 of it. That's the other thing. 284 00:14:09,940 --> 00:14:12,300 So it's it's one thing to use natural sugars but also we just 285 00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:14,090 try and use like. A sensible amount. 286 00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:17,890 So I think you know you you mentioned sugar crime, look at 287 00:14:17,890 --> 00:14:21,770 BBQ sauce and I'm not going to mention any particular brand 288 00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:25,010 because it's pretty much across the board like there are you 289 00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:27,570 know if you turn turn the product around like frequently 290 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:31,370 there are products that have 50% sugar, 35% sugar, 40% sugar and 291 00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:33,330 it's just you don't need that much sugar. 292 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:35,570 And if you think about it, if you put like you know, serving a 293 00:14:35,570 --> 00:14:38,890 decent a few dollars to catch them might be, you know, 3040 294 00:14:38,890 --> 00:14:42,330 grams, 20 grams of sugar and it's just, you know, it's not. 295 00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:44,350 Yeah. Then you have a few more dollops 296 00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:47,110 and like you're not far of a can of Coke, but you know, if you 297 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:49,550 have a can of Coke, at least you kind of, you know, you're 298 00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:51,950 constantly making a decision to have a sugary beverage, right. 299 00:14:52,190 --> 00:14:53,990 Whereas it's kind of, it's sort of hidden in a source. 300 00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:56,710 So that's the kids. That's the thing that gets me 301 00:14:56,710 --> 00:15:01,030 into that. And you know, two boys I am 302 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:04,590 constantly, especially with ketchup because that's the 303 00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:07,830 example you guys used. Or Doctor Willa, who's an actual 304 00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:11,530 doctor, The users that you know, he was using ketchup on the 305 00:15:11,530 --> 00:15:13,530 vegetables, where I think all parrots do. 306 00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:16,050 And then all of a sudden you look at the label and it's not 307 00:15:16,050 --> 00:15:18,690 only the E Forget the sugar, I can live with sugar. 308 00:15:18,930 --> 00:15:20,450 It's all the E numbers that then are. 309 00:15:21,130 --> 00:15:24,850 Following the the things and you're like, oh man, especially 310 00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:25,770 in cereals. But that. 311 00:15:25,850 --> 00:15:28,850 Again, I know you're not in cereal business, but there's got 312 00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:32,290 to be a better way. There's got to be another way, 313 00:15:32,890 --> 00:15:34,290 yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. 314 00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:34,850 Yeah. It's. 315 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,480 And that's what we're trying to do like it's it's you know, we 316 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,640 keep it really simple. So we use you know, we use dates 317 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,560 rather than like lots of like white refined sugar and then we 318 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,200 just just less of it. And in doing that we think you 319 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:46,920 know, there's still some sweetness in the product. 320 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,680 Absolutely. That's a key part of of of the 321 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,600 flavor. And I think you could, you know, 322 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,120 you could absolutely make like a 0 calorie, 0 sugar kind of 323 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,080 product, but you know, pretty wouldn't get pretty, wouldn't 324 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,480 get very far. There are some on the market, 325 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:58,720 but people are people are used to. 326 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,360 You know when you have a catch up, you want to have some 327 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,480 sweetness. You want to have some. 328 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,840 So with that sort of vinegary, that vinegary punch you want to 329 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,560 sell things like that. So we absolutely have those 330 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:08,600 things. We're just trying to have it in 331 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,880 sensible quantities and then just use the best quality 332 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,560 ingredients. So I think if you look at, you 333 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,800 know, if you look at our product, you turn the 334 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,200 background, everything that's in there are things that you'd have 335 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,680 in your kitchen. So it's you know, to like if you 336 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,120 look at our ketchup ingredients, it's like tomatoes, onions, 337 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,880 dates, spices, that kind of thing. 338 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,000 And then, yeah, and it's just, it's just trying to use like, 339 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,400 you know, good quality, simple ingredients and not. 340 00:16:30,830 --> 00:16:33,590 Had out our products with, you know, lots of gums and 341 00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:36,270 thickeners and like you said, any numbers, preservatives, all 342 00:16:36,270 --> 00:16:38,070 that stuff. You just you just don't need it. 343 00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:42,070 Like you know, with a with a product that just has tomatoes, 344 00:16:42,070 --> 00:16:43,990 dates and some vinegar and a little bit of salt, you get 345 00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:46,470 plenty of shelf life. There isn't any need to to fill 346 00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:48,550 them with, you know, preservatives that you can't, 347 00:16:49,390 --> 00:16:54,310 you can't recognize. Have you cracked the nuts of 348 00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:56,910 making people care? Because I think that's one thing 349 00:16:56,990 --> 00:17:01,700 lots of brand companies play on is the fact that the inertia of 350 00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:03,900 of change and making that change. 351 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:06,819 I'm just curious from your research or from the work that 352 00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:11,660 you've done making that a topic that's important, which it is 353 00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:16,339 for people's health and the consumer, Is there a secret or 354 00:17:16,339 --> 00:17:18,460 is there a way of of bringing that to life? 355 00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:22,859 Is a great question, I think. Have we cracked them? 356 00:17:22,859 --> 00:17:25,490 Not I think. We are getting people to care. 357 00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:27,490 I think we need to get lots more people to care. 358 00:17:27,490 --> 00:17:30,410 So we're on that journey. I think lots of people really 359 00:17:30,410 --> 00:17:33,210 resonate with our brand and and stay you know, they want a 360 00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:35,210 healthier option, but equally they want great tasting 361 00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:36,650 condiments. And I think what we're trying to 362 00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:39,530 do is not compromise. So I think if you do compromise, 363 00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:42,370 yeah again and and we were guilty of this at the start. 364 00:17:42,370 --> 00:17:45,850 We were trying to make, you know the a product that was so low in 365 00:17:45,850 --> 00:17:50,010 sugar that it didn't deliver on flavor and it tasted, you know, 366 00:17:50,090 --> 00:17:53,450 too different and and. You know didn't didn't quite 367 00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:55,730 have the balance that you expect in a in a catch up. 368 00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:58,970 Now we've got to a stage where we have products that really do 369 00:17:58,970 --> 00:18:01,130 deliver in their own right. Like we're not saying they're 370 00:18:01,130 --> 00:18:03,970 good for healthy catch up. Like these are like our products 371 00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:06,170 are delicious and they, you know, they've won great taste 372 00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:08,730 awards and I'm really passionate about making products that just 373 00:18:08,730 --> 00:18:10,650 taste great and always happen to be healthier. 374 00:18:10,970 --> 00:18:13,770 I'm curious on where you go from here, Liam, in terms you've had 375 00:18:13,770 --> 00:18:17,490 so much success, but there's so much more to do in terms of 376 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:21,220 growth of the company. What's what's top of mind for 377 00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:23,300 you? Is that the the, the key driver 378 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,540 for the next sort of 18 to 12 months for you? 379 00:18:26,260 --> 00:18:31,540 I think yeah we're we're a few years in but we're we're very 380 00:18:31,540 --> 00:18:35,420 much on this on this path to to try and disrupt that the the 381 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:39,180 economist industry. So we we're at stage, we're in 382 00:18:39,180 --> 00:18:41,540 lots of the kind of major retailers in the UK in 383 00:18:41,540 --> 00:18:44,220 particular and we also export to a few markets around the world 384 00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:47,060 and now the next challenge for us is just taking on. 385 00:18:47,970 --> 00:18:50,890 You know scanning up to to the next level and taking on some of 386 00:18:50,890 --> 00:18:53,610 these these big brands that have been around for years and years 387 00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:57,130 and just trying to essentially offer you know a healthier but 388 00:18:57,130 --> 00:18:59,650 but great tasting product to more people. 389 00:19:00,410 --> 00:19:03,730 So it's kind of scaling up that that you know distribution but 390 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:07,290 also just a when so trying to get our product out to as many 391 00:19:07,290 --> 00:19:10,290 people as as as we possibly can and we know that you know when 392 00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:11,570 people try our products they love them. 393 00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:15,370 So the big challenge is, is getting them into you know into 394 00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:17,290 many people's hands and their mouths as possible. 395 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:22,810 Yeah, I'm I'm as I keep going back to as a father this makes 396 00:19:22,810 --> 00:19:26,210 so much sense for me. It just takes away the the the 397 00:19:26,210 --> 00:19:28,850 guilt and pain of not giving them what they want, but giving 398 00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:31,090 them what they want with something that's that's better 399 00:19:31,090 --> 00:19:35,010 for them To really great. To find a passionate group of 400 00:19:35,010 --> 00:19:39,490 people that genuinely want to change the way that we eat for 401 00:19:39,490 --> 00:19:43,610 better and who also care about the world and environment that 402 00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:45,950 they live in and and we live in as well. 403 00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:48,790 I think these are really important sort of pillars if you 404 00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:52,510 like, of Business Today Liam, With all of that I want to thank 405 00:19:52,510 --> 00:19:55,630 you for giving up your time and where can people find out more 406 00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:58,510 about your business? Are you on all the social 407 00:19:58,910 --> 00:20:00,710 channels? Yeah, on all the social 408 00:20:00,710 --> 00:20:04,510 channels. So our website, Dr. Wills WILL 409 00:20:04,510 --> 00:20:09,230 f.com, Instagram at Doctor, DOCTOR, under score, Wills, 410 00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:12,470 Wilf, and then yeah, that's kind of where you can. 411 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:14,550 Find us right I need to see at the moment. 412 00:20:16,110 --> 00:20:17,030 Yes. Yeah, we do. 413 00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:18,990 So you can buy our products on our website, Okay. 414 00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:21,550 Cool. Yeah, we're on Amazon as well. 415 00:20:21,550 --> 00:20:25,350 And then in the UK, lots of retailers and also in sort of 416 00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:28,150 select parts of Europe, Middle East, Asia as well. 417 00:20:28,910 --> 00:20:29,950 That's fantastic. Liam. 418 00:20:29,950 --> 00:20:32,230 Thank you so much. Thanks very much, Alex. 419 00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:32,830 Thanks.