1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,280 And just that data and being more explicit around what you 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:05,760 want that data for and how it's going to power an experience is 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,240 just so much more valuable because I'm much more likely, 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,600 having chosen to give my data to that brand, much more likely to 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,760 return and therefore make a purchase through better 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,880 interactions with me as a consumer. 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,200 Hello and welcome to the Retail Podcast. 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,560 Now, as you know, we'd like to solve problems on the show. 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,280 So we thought what better way that when retailers are looking 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,120 at customer engagement platforms, we haven't really 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,840 covered that area specifically. We've covered some of the 12 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:49,680 partners and suppliers around that, but who better than Brace 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,040 to to talk to when, when, when retailers are looking to, to fix 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,720 that? And I'm joined by James Herridge 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,880 Link, who is the director for partnerships at Braise. 16 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,280 Have I got that right? Yeah. 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,880 And so global strategic partnerships and at Braise prior 18 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,600 to that, I was actually the Global Head of Retail and 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,960 Consumer Goods at Braise based here in London. 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,440 I got you, but you're you're AUS company, right? 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Because I can see the head office is based in New York. 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,080 That's right, yes, so frequently travelling overseas and, but but 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,160 20 years in in technology and I think the, the, the luxury or 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,480 joy of travel is definitely starting to wear off. 25 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,040 OK, I got you. So listen, if I if I knew 26 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,680 nothing about brakes, which is pretty much the case, how would 27 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,240 you in layman's terms sort of describe brace? 28 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,560 Sure. So a great place to start. 29 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,640 So Braise is a customer engagement platform that helps 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,480 brands to personalise and scale the customer experiences across 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,400 all channels. So it's one platform and endless 32 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,320 touch points and channels that we support for customers 33 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:05,200 including Deliveroo, ASOS, Estee Lauder, elf Cosmetics, many of 34 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,960 the the best and and leading brands in the world. 35 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,000 So I I noticed that's cross category, so you're not limited 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,080 to fashion or beauty. No, no, we, we absolutely work 37 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,800 with from like small, from very small businesses and through to 38 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,200 some of the largest companies in in the world. 39 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,520 I got you and and so if I was like, you know, SS their Lauder, 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,440 what what would be the outcome that you would you would you 41 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,160 would create for me? What would you? 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:38,280 Do sure it's a great question. So if, if we go back to, you 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,680 know, pre kind of 1947, so SS Lauder was in New York, she was 44 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,280 in hair salons and beauty salons and she was starting to actually 45 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,080 implement what was her, her products to consumers as they 46 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,400 were having their hair blow dry. And, and that was really kind of 47 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,640 the starting of what was high touch consumer experiences. 48 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:02,880 And so for Estee Lauder, they want to continue to, to, to 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,040 fulfil what was their kind of founding mission. 50 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,240 And, and really that's being able to understand consumers in 51 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,720 the moment through the various different touch points that they 52 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,320 have, whether it's a a website, whether it's through their and 53 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:21,400 skin or online diagnostics tool through to also in store and 54 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,320 experiences. By understanding those consumers 55 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,360 based on their known and unknown behaviours or anonymous or known 56 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,520 behaviours, be able to actually orchestrate journeys and 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,960 delivering messaging through to those consumers across the 58 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,440 various different channels that that brave supports. 59 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,960 And in doing so means that they can launch campaigns quicker, 60 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,520 they deliver more value when it comes to using own channels. 61 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,720 So very much a prioritisation of own before paid. 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,800 And in doing so, you know you've seen significant reductions in 63 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,120 the OR increases in the return on ad spend, just as as one 64 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,120 example. So there was a / 200% increase 65 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,360 in return on ad spend just by using braids. 66 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,440 Got you. So, so if I, if I understand 67 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,760 right, because one, one of the complaints I always hear senior 68 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,080 execs at conferences talk about is that the, the fact that 69 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,680 people take the decisions take longer and then more digital 70 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,320 touch points that they, they touch before they come to 71 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,520 complete or purchase. And if I understand what you're 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,640 saying correctly is that you sort of help secure that if you 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,440 know, if there's an advert or a digital channel that they've 74 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,400 gone and they've seen the brand and they've they've touched one 75 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,880 of those digital touch points, if they're known to us, 76 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,440 fantastic, we've got more data. But if they haven't that you can 77 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,880 also somehow bring that data. In well, so probably a good 78 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,720 example is that you would see an an ad from a a brand and the 79 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,800 most typical thing that you do is that could be. 80 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:52,640 Anywhere right that on any? Social. 81 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,360 Yeah, anywhere. Instagram, exactly. 82 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,120 Exactly. And typically in those 83 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,160 experiences, those consumers are unknown to the brand because 84 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,080 they're not logged in. So they see an add on Instagram, 85 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,240 they go to the website and they're anonymous. 86 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,160 But for the brand, they need to very, very quickly understand 87 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,720 who that consumer is and drive them somewhere, right? 88 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,080 So they want to typically drive them to either do a skin 89 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,880 diagnostic, yeah tool or to say make a purchase. 90 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,880 And So what Braise is doing is in the moment understanding that 91 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,040 consumer based on their behaviours and then triggering 92 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,280 messaging to drive some form of action. 93 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,440 And so that might be to a certain place on the website or 94 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,960 it might be to make a purchase or actually even into to store 95 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:47,120 to, you know, at that point, say download a coupon or something 96 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,760 like that. But I think in so many examples, 97 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,000 you've got consumers that and actually, if you ask them what 98 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,200 they're looking for, they can't necessarily tell you. 99 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,160 And I think that that kind of is like modern day life, right? 100 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,120 If you ask someone what they're they're wanting or looking for, 101 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,560 they can't tell you. And, and what Braise is doing is 102 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,320 actually just watching them and understanding their behaviours 103 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,800 and then using messaging to drive some form of interaction, 104 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,080 which ultimately drives then an outcome. 105 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,520 And you look at many of the other brands that we serve, from 106 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,840 elf Cosmetics to Zealando to Doctor Barbara Stern, that was a 107 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,720 hard one to to to get out there. And all of all of these are able 108 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,480 to actually just personalised experiences at scale. 109 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,800 And in doing so, consumers just become a lot more loyal. 110 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,000 I got you. So I mean, from my own personal 111 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,400 experience of working in tech, you probably have a view of what 112 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,640 people get wrong, right? What do they not do or what do 113 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,760 they take for granted? What what? 114 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,960 Like, what are the top three things that people are getting 115 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,480 wrong in this industry right now? 116 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,440 Sure. So I think one of the one of the 117 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,440 big challenges that a lot of brands have is that they operate 118 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,960 within silos, whether that's a channel based silo. 119 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:05,000 So just understanding how consumers interact through 120 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,960 e-mail or with data silos. So, you know, I think a lot of 121 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,360 retailers have just legacy systems and they're not 122 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,560 connected. And that's a real challenge for 123 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,720 retailers because they want to be able to make data available 124 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,680 to therefore action. But where data lives in silos, 125 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,800 they can't action it in the moment. 126 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,600 And so there's always this latency. 127 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,520 But then when it comes to channel silos, you're looking at 128 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,800 how James Harris laying interacts for e-mail. 129 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,240 But I didn't necessarily interact with brands through 130 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,520 e-mail. I'm much more responsive, say, 131 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,320 on the website or through WhatsApp. 132 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,440 And I think the the, the core challenge that fundamentally a 133 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,440 lot of the brands have is that that data is siloed and the 134 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,640 channels are also siloed. And therefore to be able to have 135 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,920 cohesive, ongoing conversations with consumers through 136 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,520 messaging, it's just really difficult. 137 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,240 But yeah, I guess the reason it's difficult is because those 138 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,040 signals that consumers are giving pretty much I don't know 139 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,440 what percentage is are lost, right? 140 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:12,640 Because you, you don't have some form of signal detector picking 141 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,640 up all the signals that you're missing, right? 142 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,560 So obviously I can go on my how many people are responding to 143 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,720 e-mail and that's going to be abysmal number, right? 144 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,720 Because how many people respond to that as opposed to as you 145 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,840 said, these new channels. So what are the channels that 146 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,760 you're seeing influence purchasing behaviour? 147 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,880 Sure. So I think so in what would be 148 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,640 seen and say in product channels, so like web messaging 149 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:46,040 on the website and in app messaging and then channels or 150 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:51,040 out of product channels like e-mail, WhatsApp, SMS. 151 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:56,760 Also RCS when it, when it comes to say braised on a, on an 152 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,480 annual basis runs what we call our consumer engagement review 153 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,400 and that we go out to many different execs across our, our 154 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,440 customer base. And a, a, a key stat for you. 155 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:16,280 So 47% of retailers say that they're extremely or very 156 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,160 concerned that their messaging isn't resonating with customers. 157 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,840 And I think when, you know, when you even kind of break that down 158 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,760 further. So 95% of marketers through the 159 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,760 consumer engagement review admit that they can't or sorry, they 160 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,680 find it difficult to craft emotionally resonant messaging 161 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,880 and this lack of connection can lead to lower engagement rate. 162 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,120 So I think the it's very clear that there's an issue. 163 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,840 And I think one of the challenges is, is that a lot of 164 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,280 brands have gone to or a lot of retailers gone to your kind of 165 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:54,880 one-size-fits-all type technology vendor where what 166 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,120 we're seeing is this shift to what is kind of composability 167 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,320 and composable solutions. So being able to actually find 168 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,040 the best in breed of a data warehouse or ABI tool or a 169 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,360 customer engagement platform. But core to those technologies 170 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,680 actually being able to work is that they can work together. 171 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,600 And I think, you know, Braze has very recently launched or 172 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,680 announced our partnership and integration to Shopify. 173 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:22,360 And I think for, you know, if you've got 70 million people in 174 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,760 the UKI think we too frequently just look at the biggest 175 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,760 businesses in the UK and the world that are then the example. 176 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:35,120 But but actually 85% of consumers live outside of 177 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,000 Greater London. So you've got I'm a parish 178 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,040 councillor and on the Watlington Business Association as a 179 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,200 representative. And you just see that the 180 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,800 challenges that a lot of these businesses have in trying to 181 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,760 actually engage with consumers and actually resonate with them 182 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,600 to increase the amount of spending and the, the, the 183 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,680 frequency by which they're making purchases. 184 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:01,280 And I think fundamentally they need technologies that can work 185 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,440 together. And so composability I think is 186 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,640 becoming more and more of a, a theme that that will play out 187 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,600 over the, the the coming years. How do you handle privacy across 188 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,840 Europe or across the world? Because you have so many 189 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,400 different privacy laws that you have to adhere by in different 190 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,000 parts of the UK, or I mean, actually I think GDPR is a 191 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,960 European, you know, almost if you're GDPR compliant. 192 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,200 Do you have any thoughts on privacy? 193 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:36,120 So like privacy and, and, and customer data is, you know, cool 194 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,880 to, to what we do it, it underlies everything but, or 195 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,000 underpins everything that we do when you take it very seriously, 196 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,720 because you can't build trust for the consumer without 197 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,560 respecting their, their data and their privacy, but also having, 198 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,280 you know, and again, taking security very, very seriously. 199 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,880 I think an important point to consider is so many marketers 200 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,960 hesitate to use personal data because of concerns around 201 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,800 consumer consent. So 45% of the UK marketers cite 202 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,240 this as a top worry. And with an ever evolving 203 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,400 landscape, it becomes even more important because you've got all 204 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,120 of these various different technologies for Braise, 205 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,320 security, privacy and compliance. 206 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,120 Is, is, is, you know, the, the, the most critical part to, to 207 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,840 what we do because our customers and the reason that they love 208 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,040 Braise is because we make sure that the, the relationship that 209 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,400 they have with their consumers is just, you know, dealt with in 210 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,320 a way that's secure, trustworthy and compliant in, in every way. 211 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:42,840 I got you. I understand. 212 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,880 So do you think that there's a hindrance? 213 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,800 Is there like do retailers, is that like does that perception 214 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,360 block them from doing things in terms of they're eternally 215 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,840 worried about not being compliant, whereas actually 216 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,760 maybe the work that they are? I mean, what's what's the 217 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,920 blockage of, of using a system like brace? 218 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,280 I guess that's what I'm trying to understand. 219 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,560 Sure. So I, I don't think compliance 220 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:13,760 is one of the factors that kind of underpin or so being 221 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,560 compliant in the way by which you communicate with consumers 222 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,200 is absolutely critical. We know that. 223 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,680 But I think that that is kind of course of what all of these 224 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:27,360 technologies allow brands to be able to adhere to in terms of 225 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,320 kind of compliance and regulation. 226 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,040 That said, I think one of the biggest fears that we we 227 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,600 continue to see is that there's a risk of kind of taking that 228 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,000 next step, as it were. So the status quo is, is, is the 229 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,200 status quo. So I think a lot of brands are 230 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,840 still chat struggle to, to to challenge what is that status 231 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,680 quo. I've got a, a stat here in terms 232 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,480 of like the amount of of e-mail that's being used. 233 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,880 So bear with me one second. Sure, no problem. 234 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:04,880 So when it comes to e-mail like as a channel, so 43% of 235 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,960 consumers or sorry, respondents to the customer engagement 236 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,040 reviews say that e-mail is the preferred channel. 237 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:18,600 Messaging apps like WhatsApp lying account talk is 39% SMS 238 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,000 38% and then slowly followed by by other channels. 239 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,280 And I think there's this still over reliance on one single 240 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,320 channel and consumers are all different, right. 241 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,480 And I the one like I said earlier, e-mail is, is one way 242 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,800 of getting hold of me, but not necessarily the the best way. 243 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,960 And I think it's also dependent by market as well. 244 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:44,800 So in a lot of mobile first markets, so like India is a good 245 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,920 example or South America, the penetration of mobile is just so 246 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,400 high. And you know, like e-mail to cut 247 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,120 through is, is quite difficult because it's not a channel that 248 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,400 that everyone uses. And so for a lot of brands that 249 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,680 come to Braise is that they want one platform to walk a straight 250 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,760 journeys and have an like a variety of different ways to 251 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,960 communicate with consumers and to do so at scale. 252 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,000 And I think where AI is going to, you know, change the way by 253 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,040 which brands communicate is that it's not going to be a 254 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,280 one-size-fits-all. It's going to be really truly 255 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,120 understanding who that consumer is, whether you know them or you 256 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,160 don't, and then interacting with them based on their behaviours 257 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,160 and other data that you have about them, but also being even 258 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,640 more explicit about the data that you collect from them and 259 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,080 asking them. So you know, James, do you like 260 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,440 this product versus this product or this experience versus this 261 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,920 experience and using all of that data and it being available is 262 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,800 going to what I think is, is, is the next wave that a lot of 263 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,040 brands are are starting to embark on, but very few are 264 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,400 actually doing it well, I would say. 265 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,440 I got you. So I think that brings us nicely 266 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,040 to like the the final question in terms of you, you mentioned 267 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,000 AI or when you look to the future of over what this 268 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,960 industry, your industry looks like over the next two to three 269 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,720 years, what does that look like? What? 270 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,680 What is in, in, in, You know, what is in the future for us. 271 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,680 So I think that there's, there's a number of factors outside of 272 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,080 just the, the industry. I think, you know, planning as, 273 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,720 as one example here in the UK, there's planning laws that are 274 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,560 changing. And I think the cost to live in 275 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,720 a city centre, I live in, like I said, in in Watlington, which is 276 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,680 junction six of the M40 for those who don't know, second 277 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,480 smallest town in the UK and you know, you've got the LTN or the 278 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,360 20 mile an hour speed limits. It takes an hour to get into to 279 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,360 Oxford City centre. And I think planning laws are 280 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,880 changing in a way that you're going to see new shopping 281 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,680 centres and new malls built around housing because we've got 282 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,960 a housing crisis. And I think that fundamentally 283 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,240 is 1 opportunity that's going to change the way in that you've 284 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,400 got property that allows for better connectivity and better 285 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,720 experiences. And I think AI is going to 286 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,240 change the way there in that it will move to a more Omni channel 287 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,440 way. So brands will see this more as 288 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,960 even more of an opportunity that you need to connect online and 289 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,880 install, equipping your, your teams, whether they're in store 290 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,640 or online, but specifically in store with technologies that 291 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,640 provide them with more knowledge, which is effectively 292 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,160 AI or Gen AI is being able to equip them with, with, with more 293 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,040 skills and, and, and knowledge. And, and in doing so, I think 294 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,680 will change the way that consumers interact with the 295 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,720 stores. So being able to actually be 296 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,760 identified as you walk in that store through a mobile app and 297 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,880 then retail media, being able to actually deliver much more of an 298 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,880 immersive experience to those consumers in store, using that 299 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,920 behavioural real time data to then trigger more experiences, 300 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,720 whether it's through your app or actually through kiosks and so 301 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,800 forth. And I think where the power of 302 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,240 AI is going to come in is it's going to allow you to do that at 303 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,520 scale. So your experience, Alex, will 304 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,520 be different to my experience, James and, and so on. 305 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,880 And what's your perspective on that? 306 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,600 Well. That's a good question. 307 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,120 I think there's there's a bit of a bun fight going on in terms of 308 00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:16,600 what the how AI wants to control the future channel. 309 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,280 So you've got AI companies or like perplexity who basically 310 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,720 circumvent the website and take the customer to where the 311 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,160 transaction happens to like the buy page because they feel that, 312 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,680 you know, if you're looking for a floral summer dress, you don't 313 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,560 necessarily need to go through the 25 different touch points on 314 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,880 the website. Let's just take you to the buy 315 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,680 page. We'll show you what that that 316 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,480 looks like. And so I think, you know, 317 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,760 whether or not retailers accept that and say, you know, the 318 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,800 amount of money they're they're spending on their websites, 319 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,320 whether they'll obviously, they don't want to lose any channel. 320 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,080 I just see that as them wanting to take more control to own that 321 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,240 data rather than the data sitting in perplexity, TikTok, 322 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,320 Instagram or wherever else. And I think that's what 323 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,280 retailers are really probably struggling with building 324 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,640 coherent plans. Either they give up and say 325 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,680 we're not going to have that data, it's all going to sit in 326 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,880 meta and you know, that's the way it goes. 327 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,240 Or they'll put some form of fight, fight back and really, 328 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,640 really sort of double down on their own digital assets on 329 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,920 owning the customer or, or providing better value for the 330 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,800 customer and the reason to engage at that level. 331 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,760 So. Yeah, it's it's definitely an 332 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,000 interesting one because I think the last time that brand 333 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,080 actually asked me data about me instead of just assuming or 334 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,240 understanding my behaviours. So Estee Lauder do this really 335 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,600 well. They use a an in browser message 336 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,880 on their website. So it might be cosmetics to 337 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,040 actually surface a message that is interactive that you can 338 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,960 potentially part ways with 0 positive data. 339 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,400 So it might understand your skin type or what you're looking for. 340 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,920 And just that data and being more explicit around what you 341 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,400 want that data for and how it's going to power and experience is 342 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,920 just so much more valuable because I'm much more likely 343 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,680 having. I've chosen to give my data to 344 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,920 that brand much more likely to return and therefore make a 345 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,880 purchase through better interactions with me as a 346 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,880 consumer, and I think brands that get that right will build 347 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,480 better longer term relationships with their customers. 348 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,640 Yeah, I think there's, there's so much that brands get wrong in 349 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,480 terms of just look at, if you follow some of the chat rooms 350 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,000 where you know what, why do the, why do people use ChatGPT? 351 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,840 And it goes to beauty? It's they want to know what 352 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,480 other colours are adjacent to the, that match their skin tone, 353 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,560 right? And so they'll ChatGPT has a, 354 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,680 has a, a capability of looking at you, taking, you know, using 355 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,280 a vision AI, saying, OK, you're this colour. 356 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,720 Consider wearing this, this than this colour. 357 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,880 And the beauty industry is nervously asking you to, you 358 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,640 know, scan your face to see whether or not you, you, you're, 359 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,480 you've done sconce sun damage. So I think there's that source 360 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,360 of the bold will win because they understand or they'll look 361 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,480 at these sort of what people are searching with AI and then 362 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,840 think, well, we could do that. Why are we not offering a 363 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,600 service of you bought this brown because you're that shade of 364 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,800 brown and all these other colours that go with you or, you 365 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,240 know, I don't know. But it's that's where I think 366 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,720 brands are need to invest more to not be left behind. 367 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,640 And again, I heard someone say, well, is that like in the old 368 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,440 days, like 10 years ago? Alexa voice, everyone was 369 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,160 worried that that would be the channel. 370 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,200 You'll just say, Hey, Alexa, buy this for me. 371 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,640 And so retailers were like, well, we need to own that 372 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,480 because we don't want, you know, if, if, if, if someone says buy 373 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,480 some batteries, you don't want Amazon deciding what batteries 374 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,360 you're going to sell. You want to own that. 375 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,640 That really didn't come into fruition as a channel. 376 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,040 Maybe it still might because, you know, these things take take 377 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,800 forever in terms of consumer behaviour changing. 378 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,200 But yeah, that's it. Any closing thoughts? 379 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,680 So. Thank you for for taking the, 380 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,920 the, the time for me today. And I think for, for, for those 381 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,800 retailers and brands that want to have one platform that 382 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,760 connects to their best of breed technology and be able to 383 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,240 orchestrate journeys and deliver messaging to consumers in the 384 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,320 moment using first and zero party data and across a variety 385 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,720 of channels. So in products, a web app and 386 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,640 then out of product through e-mail, SMS and WhatsApp, 387 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,800 Braises is becoming even more well known and just the 388 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,000 customers that we work with and the results do speak for 389 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,160 themselves. So I'd encourage those that are 390 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,280 interested in finding out more to to to make contact. 391 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,360 That's fantastic. Are you at any conferences that 392 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:52,520 are coming? Up we are so we'll be at Cannes 393 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:58,080 Lion festival OK, and what's amazing about Cannes is that you 394 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,560 get to make meet so many of the world's most amazing people and 395 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:07,640 I think you do so obviously in 30° sunshine. 396 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,640 And then we've got Viva tech and tomorrow or the twenty 20th of 397 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,640 May we've got praise city by city and then other things like 398 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,520 shop talk Europe that we'll also be at. 399 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,240 So looking forward to having many great conversations with, 400 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,640 with, you know, amazing people across the world. 401 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,920 That's fantastic, James. Thank you so much for giving up 402 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,520 your time and I look forward to seeing you at one of these 403 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,160 conferences. Great. 404 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:31,880 Thank you, Alex.