1 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,080 Hello and welcome back to the Retail Podcast. 2 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:16,560 I'm joined by Senior Vice President Eric Linksweiler from 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,440 Trade Beyond. I think we're set up for an 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,280 interesting conversation just by the a snapshot that Eric gave me 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,680 what what's occupying his time right now? 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,240 But Eric, for those who don't know who you are or what trade 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,640 beyond are above, sorry about, if you could just give us an 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:34,880 overview that would be phenomenal. 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,960 Yeah, fantastic. Hey, Alex, thanks so much and 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,560 really appreciate the channel and the opportunity to to chat 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,640 with you today and tell the folks, you know kind of what we 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,760 do here at Trade Beyond. So we are a global organisation 13 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:53,120 and I manage the team around the globe, from North America to 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,800 Europe to our headquarters in Hong Kong and throughout Greater 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,280 Asia. We're in the business of helping 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,880 Tier 1 retailers and brands to streamline their processes, 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,880 manage their extended retail supply chain as it pertains to 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,840 private label product development, sourcing, costing, 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,320 compliance, quality to the container. 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,800 Our customers enjoy our platform in that it, you know, reduces 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,200 time to market, creates efficiencies and allows them to 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,240 have greater visibility in their overall day-to-day operations. 23 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:37,480 Wow, that's a, a pretty impressive list of activities. 24 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,240 You, you obviously must spend a lot of time I #1 travelling the 25 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,520 world and #2 meeting executives at these Tier 1 retailers. 26 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,920 Given the diverse sets of operational environments across 27 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,520 the world, what's keeping people awake right now? 28 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,160 What's what's the number one thing people want to talk to you 29 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,680 about when when you're meeting execs? 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:08,360 Well, yeah, in in our world we have gone, we've gone into a 31 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,480 time of high regulation through legislation. 32 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,960 As it relates to the retail supply chain in particular, the 33 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,640 execs that I speak with, you know, around global sourcing, 34 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:27,760 supply chain management, around governance, finance and 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,600 compliance are deeply concerned about making sure that they are 36 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,920 doing the right things to not impede the delivery of their 37 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:43,000 shipments of direct import. And to do that they are they are 38 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:49,240 grappling with how to create digital chain chains of custody 39 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,640 to document the flow of their merchandise from early stage raw 40 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:55,920 material development through finished goods. 41 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:59,400 This is a topic that we talked about every single day. 42 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,120 Of course, the cost of shipping of cost of moving goods is top 43 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,760 of mind, creating new opportunities for source, 44 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,360 exploring opportunities to move into new geographies. 45 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,960 And what that does to the business is the infrastructure 46 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,920 available. Are the people trained up and 47 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:24,080 able to to enter into a new market or a new geography to 48 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,880 help bolster their sourcing strength. 49 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,280 You know, that's a lot. Those are four or five topics 50 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,920 jammed in there, but those are the kind of things we hear about 51 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,480 everyday. What's? 52 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,560 In terms of if, if you were going to break that down in in 53 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,840 into the various categories of, you know, stuff that's going to 54 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,000 impact the product arriving, stuff that's going to impact the 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,160 product being produced and the whole traceability. 56 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,760 And then you've got sort of sustainability that sort of 57 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:58,240 covers all the areas. I mean, sustainability is a 58 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,760 really interesting one, especially like. 59 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,720 The. In a cost of living crisis when 60 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,360 consumers were given the choice, do you want cheaper products or 61 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,120 do you want more sustainable products? 62 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,640 I think there's a very sort of mixed response there. 63 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,360 I'm just curious how retailers see that problem because is, is 64 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,519 the legislation, especially in Europe going towards more 65 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,520 regulation and more sustainable like, you know, understanding 66 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,360 where your raw materials coming from having product passports 67 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,800 for, for products. Yeah. 68 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,560 What's your view? Yeah. 69 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,640 You know, Alex, I've, I've, I talked about this with others, 70 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,880 others in, you know, that sit in chairs like yours as well as, 71 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,720 you know, our clients and, and, and, and and other folks in the 72 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,400 ecosystem that I work with. And the way I see it. 73 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,400 And you maybe I'm, maybe I'm a bit of an optimist, but you 74 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,880 know, this whole topic of sustainability, it's not new, 75 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,240 OK? It's been, you know, we've been 76 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:05,760 talking about this for a while and some of the better companies 77 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,600 are actually say the leading companies, not better leading 78 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:15,480 have been, you know, exploring opportunities of becoming a more 79 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,360 responsible sourcing organisation, a more sustainable 80 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,040 organisation as it comes to material consumption, waste, 81 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,920 circularity, et cetera. So those conversations have been 82 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,760 going on. What's new is that folks are now 83 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,680 forced to do something about it, right? 84 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,640 What becomes law becomes, you know, and what becomes 85 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,640 measurable, you know, now becomes action. 86 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:45,640 And, and, and, and I, I see that as a good thing, frankly. 87 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,080 And it's just, it's, it's taking the leaders and it's putting 88 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,920 their thoughts into actions and it's helping what I see that 89 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,040 from an optimistic perspective is the leaders are dragging some 90 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,600 of the laggards into the conversation and into the action 91 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,400 plan with them. You know, I see, you know, we 92 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,320 operate in a, in a global shareable world, the global 93 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,800 shareable economy, a global, I mean, gosh, we share, you know, 94 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,360 we share rides with each other. We, you know, we, we share, we 95 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,200 share seating at the table and at restaurants together. 96 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,240 And, and everything is becoming more, more community driven. 97 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,240 I see this, you know, I see this particularly in the apparel 98 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,640 space. You know, the leaders in the 99 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,440 apparel space in particular are helping each other to partner 100 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:37,600 with their common supply chain suppliers and, and developers 101 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,640 and, and mutually helping each other to realise goals and 102 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,720 targets around sustainability. So I think I, I, I think the 103 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,560 future is, is challenging, but bright. 104 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,800 I think the road to brightness is going to be bumpy, but I 105 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,240 think the future is bright. Do you find? 106 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,840 How do you manage, you know the different cultures specifically 107 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:07,080 in Europe or in Asia where you know it is higher on on the menu 108 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,400 compared to North America or the United States? 109 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:16,800 It is sustainability from your experience as much of A issue in 110 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,480 in the US or not? Well, I don't know. 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,520 It's a question rather than a statement. 112 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,920 Yeah, Yeah. I believe we're, I believe in 113 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,360 the in the US and North America in general. 114 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,760 We're certainly catching up, catching up to Europe, Europe, 115 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,600 Europe seems to act faster and with more depth and more 116 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,080 diligence around these topics than we do in North America for 117 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,240 sure. But the North American consumer 118 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,640 is, is driving the market. It's driving the turn as well, 119 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,840 as well as the, as, as well as the legislation. 120 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,880 And, and I, I, I, I believe we're seeing, you know, 121 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,000 certainly a, closer to the middle, a closer to the evening 122 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,840 or the levelling, I should say, of all regions around this 123 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,040 topic. And, and do you see in terms of 124 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,920 the category of product or retailer gross, I mean, I 125 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,120 remember reading a fantastic transparency in supply chain use 126 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,040 case for I think it was LVMH. So you know, 3-4 years ago they 127 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,840 wanted to on one line of products bring that traceability 128 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,679 to life. Do you see a certain category 129 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:36,559 having more focus on by retailers or are they all? 130 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,559 It's across all categories right now. 131 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,400 I believe, which is not uncommon in our business, certainly 132 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,000 around digitalization, that apparel, footwear, wearable 133 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,600 apparel, footwear and accessories are leading the 134 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,520 charge. You know, I, I remember I'm 100% 135 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,560 retail. So I'm, I'm a bit biassed, but I 136 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:02,360 and I work across all product assortment or merchandise mix 137 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,120 retailers, hypermarkets, DIY specialty, this department 138 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,120 store, you name it. But, but clearly with the amount 139 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,160 of consumption that we see in apparel, you know, obviously 140 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,320 food out out stripes it of course, but with count of 141 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:26,760 consumption as it relates to material usage, apparel, 142 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,760 footwear, outrace, everybody at this point, at this point that's 143 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,360 where the majority, that's where the movers are. 144 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Yeah, well, and what are the sort of quick wins retailers can 145 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,160 do in this space apart from obviously picking up the phone 146 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,800 and speaking to you guys? But what what's like when they, 147 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,040 when they come to you again and you're having these 148 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:51,520 conversations, they how how are they, you know, what's the 149 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,000 outcome that ultimately they're there trying to get to that you, 150 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,960 you will help them with or the the the major one that you're 151 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,080 you focus on. Yeah, what I try to do is strip 152 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,240 people down to the basics. You know, most, most folks come 153 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:13,080 to us with a very long wish list and they want it all and they 154 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,640 want it all tomorrow. They don't have the foundation 155 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,160 in place. They don't have the building 156 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,760 blocks in place. The building blocks of your 157 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,760 supply chain is just that. Your supply chain partners, your 158 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,320 ecosystem, your supply chain community. 159 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:35,840 And in in what we do is we emphasise the importance of 160 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:41,960 identifying to the 3rd, 4th and 5th tier every member of your 161 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,400 supply chain and actually getting it into a visualisation 162 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:52,400 map that allows you to see the inter and intra dependencies of 163 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,720 all those members. And then begin your segmentation 164 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:02,960 of that map into certain certain like types, certain certain 165 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,680 performers and non performers, certain folks that can impact 166 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:10,840 your goals in certain areas at a significant level. 167 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,560 So where is my biggest opportunity for scope free 168 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:19,520 reduction if I have a supply chain made-up of 15 to 2000 169 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,960 active supply chain partners? It's not in all of them, but 170 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,720 until I get them all mapped and can backwards to the top 100, I 171 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:28,960 don't really know where to start. 172 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:36,880 So gaining visibility into your true supply chain community and 173 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,440 that community of partnerships is job one. 174 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,640 And it's very low hanging fruit, by the way, it is a place where 175 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,280 we can to your point, Alex, you asked where's the quick win? 176 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,400 I mean, it's a, it's, it is a quick win. 177 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,680 It seems elementary, but you'd be shocked at how many folks are 178 00:11:54,680 --> 00:12:00,200 trying to do this manually on paper in Excel and just can't 179 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,160 keep up with it, right. And and so these are the tools 180 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,280 we bring the market that we help, you know, we help make 181 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,840 that. I won't say make it more simple. 182 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,760 I don't like that word because everything is work, but make it 183 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,160 possible. And that, that's where I like to 184 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,080 emphasise. Do you has anyone's? 185 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,920 Oh, again, because I, I'm definitely not a supply chain 186 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,400 expert, but in terms of the single modality of a lot of 187 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,840 supply chains not having redundancy built into Geo 188 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,880 geographies where there may be tension somewhere in the middle. 189 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,160 And you know, therefore they have to then diversify to 190 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,600 another region or country. Again. 191 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,600 Is that is that something people are like going to bimodal supply 192 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,800 chain models in terms of, you know, I've got something in Asia 193 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,680 or China and I need to get something in, in, I don't know, 194 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,040 Brazil or something in case something happens. 195 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,480 Is that is that the level of depth people are thinking about 196 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,800 or is that just very like they're? 197 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,280 No, no, they, they, they are absolutely at that level of 198 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,360 depth of thinking and a conversation and of modelling 199 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,800 and of seeking outside counsel and outside support and outside 200 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,200 advisorship on how to make that happen. 201 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,760 That being said, I don't see a tonne of execution from that 202 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,480 perspective, you know, from using your words, you know, by 203 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:29,640 bimodal. Now what I do see that is being 204 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:37,840 executed is the elimination, you know, of redundancy on maybe on 205 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,440 a, on a single modal perspective as an example. 206 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,360 And from a systems management perspective, you know, I do see 207 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,240 of most organisations moving forward with digital 208 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:55,440 transformation projects to get their entire organisation on a 209 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,440 single backbone whereby they can be communicating more 210 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,160 effectively. Everybody's hearing the same, 211 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,360 everybody's on the same channel, everybody's getting the same 212 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,240 message, everybody's understanding exactly where they 213 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,840 are in time and motion and in critical path and in milestone 214 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,760 because they're all on a single sheet. 215 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,840 That has happened. That is, that's what we do and 216 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,800 that is absolutely happening in the biggest organisations in the 217 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,120 world. Go ahead. 218 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,840 How, how does that compare? So where, where does it again, 219 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,480 theoretically, I read a lot about, you know, how retailers 220 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,640 are optimising their supply chains to finish at the 221 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:39,400 customer, not at the point of entry at some port in country. 222 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,200 And again, I, I haven't because people don't really talk about 223 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,280 this trans, this sort of transparency. 224 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,040 How much of that do you see from your experience in terms of have 225 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,320 you seen good examples of supply chains finishing with the 226 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:59,520 customer as in you know end to end visibility on that? 227 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,840 You know what's interesting about that is you do hear a lot 228 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,600 of people talking about it and what I the success stories I see 229 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,840 are with the smaller organisations that are do a 230 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,000 better job figuring they do a better job figuring out the last 231 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,120 mile than the large organisations. 232 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,840 You know if you are $150 billion top line, $50 billion US top 233 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:29,720 line retailer, yeah, the volumes you are working with make it 234 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,120 challenging to have the supply chain end at the consumer, 235 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,400 right, At least, you know, at least from finished good to 236 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,240 delivery. So we don't see this much there, 237 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,680 but in the mid tier, in the mid tier, we're seeing more and more 238 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,080 of that and they're getting better at it. 239 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,320 I mean, I was in Shanghai in couple of weeks, 3 weeks ago 240 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,680 doing a, a bit of a recce safari with some retailers and I was 241 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,600 really impressed with their sort of sustainability, how they're 242 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,000 trying to drive sustainability through their different supply 243 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,080 chains and operations. But again, it's a big, you know, 244 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,480 there's a big diversity in terms of people who, who are nailing 245 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,280 it and people who, who are, are still, you know, doing things 246 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,720 the, the old way you mentioned earlier in terms of the quick 247 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,560 wins. What's the one thing that's 248 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,040 surprised you when you, when you speak to retailers? 249 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,080 Is there any themes that like you're like, oh, things that you 250 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,560 thought people had already done or doing and they're not doing? 251 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,000 Is there anything that's really surprised you when you're having 252 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,560 these conversations that you can share? 253 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,520 Well, I'll tell you, you know, it's I, I take it back to that, 254 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,400 to the dinner conversation. You know, you go to dinner with 255 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,520 your wife and you sit down, you're having dinner with a 256 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,920 couple you you don't really know very well. 257 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,240 Maybe it's her girlfriend and her meeting the husband for the 258 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,960 first time, right? Yeah. 259 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,520 And you get into the conversation. 260 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,880 So what do you do? You know, and I start to 261 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,720 explain, well, I help retailers that are developing private 262 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,280 label and this and that and, and, and then they kind of drill 263 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,599 in a little bit and they go, well, gosh, you know, if 264 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,640 they're, if they're already creating, you know, if 50% of 265 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,760 their assortment is already private label and they're 266 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,240 managing all that on their own, I mean, it seems like they've 267 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,800 got it pretty figured out. What else can you possibly do? 268 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,359 And I said we need be surprised. You'd be surprised to walk into 269 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,160 $100 billion retailer and see how much they do on sticky 270 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:35,040 notes, on e-mail, on WeChat. And this hand's not talking to 271 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,080 the other hand. And yet they're managing this 272 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,680 massive business. I mean, and yet they're doing it 273 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,960 from a state of pencil and pad. That's the biggest thing that I 274 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,520 see. And, and, and then on top of 275 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,680 that, once you see it, it's the inability for so many 276 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,400 organisations to make a decision and get started on an 277 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,760 optimization and a transformation programme. 278 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,080 They are just, they are just hypnotised and paralysed in, in 279 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,560 their ability to move forward quickly. 280 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,640 That's the biggest surprise I see. 281 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,080 It's, it's, it's a bit frustrating to me actually, 282 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,440 because I see so much opportunity and so many dragging 283 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,120 and so many dragging feet. And every year you'll get the, 284 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,280 you know, you'll get the Gartner report and here's what we're 285 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:25,600 going to do. And here's how much money we're 286 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,720 going to spend. And here's the projects that 287 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,320 were, you know, that are top of mind. 288 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,000 And these are the things that we're budgeting for. 289 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,800 And, you know, the numbers at the beginning of the year never 290 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,000 seem to match up to the numbers at the end of the year. 291 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,840 Yeah. I mean, look, I the, the allure 292 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,640 of private label is you know, from a, a return on investment 293 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,440 is fantastic. And that's why, why I understand 294 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,240 it coming towards the end of, of our, of our chat, 2 sort of 295 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,960 areas that I'd like to focus on and, and I'll let you decide in 296 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:55,760 which way you'd like to answer them. 297 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:03,000 Circular and sustainability and how practical ways you can help 298 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,720 retailers or what retailers should be thinking about is, is 299 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,000 one question around, specifically around circular and 300 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,120 sustainability. And then the second one, when 301 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:18,080 you look to the future and you look at, you know, OK, not 302 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,240 looking into the looking glass, but what you think is going to 303 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,960 be on people's agendas going forward, Is it going to be more 304 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,560 regulation? Are there other things that you, 305 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,720 you see on the horizon? Yeah, 2 questions. 306 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,720 Yeah, both of them pretty busy. You know, the circularity 307 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,600 conversation is an interesting one and you know, certainly one 308 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,080 that I, I embrace. I'm not an expert in 309 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,480 circularity, but we're getting more and more into these 310 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:52,280 conversations 11 place where people are using the tools that 311 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,160 trade beyond to assist them here and other tools, not just sorry, 312 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,360 of course we're getting we're we're beginning to do a better 313 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:07,560 job incorporating the. The end life of a product and 314 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,680 the voice of the customer utilising the product playing 315 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,160 back into the early stage development of the next 316 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,520 generation of a collection or of a product. 317 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,880 So, So what do I mean by that? So if you are a, you know, if 318 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,600 you're let's stick with apparel, I mentioned that earlier, you 319 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,040 know, if you're an apparel or retailer and you're, and you're, 320 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,480 you're creating a, a new material, let's say a new 321 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,840 material blend that hasn't been in market before, proprietary 322 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,040 material blend and you're, you're, you're building that now 323 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,720 it's taking you 18 months to get it to a role and now we're in 324 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,480 production and we're producing product and that product, 325 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,400 product is in the market. In the past when that product 326 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,320 has been returned for a quality issue, a performance issue, 327 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,600 etcetera, we never get that information back to the front, 328 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,240 back to the early stage product development cycle so that we can 329 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,800 improve upon it. We just sort of forget about it. 330 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,080 We throw it away and we leave it. 331 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,600 We leave it to the past and we just start working on a new 332 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,680 product. We're seeing a much better job 333 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,520 now, new tools available. AI is helping out a little bit 334 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,760 here. You know, we're able to deliver 335 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,520 and anticipate some of the reaction from the market and 336 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,880 we're pushing that reaction into the early stages of product 337 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,520 development for the next generation of goods that that's 338 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,080 happening, that's happening. It's slow, it's got a ways, it's 339 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,240 got a ways to go. But, but that's what I would 340 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,480 say, you know, about circularity, I'm very bullish on 341 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,760 it. I, I really believe, you know, 342 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,920 again, it's my optimistic side. I really believe as a, as a 343 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,960 human race in general, you don't, you only hear the bad 344 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,280 news, you don't hear a lot of the good. 345 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,680 But we're beginning as a global society to understand the 346 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,200 importance of that and understand the importance of 347 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,080 taking care of things longer term. 348 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:03,400 As for the future, I do believe that we are going to see more 349 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,320 people jumping on the artificial intelligence machine learning AI 350 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,280 bandwagon. Right now the use cases 351 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:17,560 impracticality frankly are limited in our in our business, 352 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,080 in our world, particularly around the area supply chain. 353 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,480 But we're working hard at it. Other folks in our business are 354 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,080 working hard at it and we're beginning to at least get a 355 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,920 vision towards, you know, what does 12 months outlook like for 356 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,160 tools that we can deliver to our customers that would be 357 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,040 meaningful and help them. Automating the onboarding, the 358 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:47,280 vetting and the actual activation of new source, new 359 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,000 sourcing agents, new sourcing the supply chain partners is, is 360 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,800 a key. Being able to anticipate the 361 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,640 performance of a particular product in market in different 362 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,440 climate, in different use patterns, that's coming and it's 363 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,200 helping our designers that are on our platform in the early 364 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,720 stage. Being able to do cost 365 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,200 optimization using AI is something on the sourcing side 366 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,960 of the business that we're that we're seeing start to bubble up 367 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,520 to the top that you really can't do with a lot of manual 368 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:23,560 actually. I mean, you can, but you know, 369 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,440 obviously we, we speed up, we speed up the process with AI, 370 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,720 the whole, the whole topic of traceability, traceability of 371 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,600 labour, traceability of slave labour, of, of illegal underage, 372 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,480 socially challenged labour. This is a huge opportunity for 373 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,440 AI, one that we've already employed and we do have an 374 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,320 action. So I think that's where the 375 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,520 future is. Lots of opportunity there that 376 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,040 we're not there yet. People want to rush it. 377 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,400 People are trying to rush it. It's not there, but the 378 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,000 practical use cases are starting to come out. 379 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,400 That's fantastic. Thank you. 380 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,520 Eric, a side note, will you be at any of the conferences in the 381 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,080 final sort of quarter of the year you is trade beyond 382 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,200 expoing? We, we do, we, we actually find 383 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,560 a lot of opportunity in some of the smaller or some of the non 384 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,600 profit events. We do a lot of work, for example 385 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,960 with the American Apparel Footwear Association. 386 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,040 A A Of course, we attend some of the larger retail events. 387 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,880 NRF, right? I think you guys had a big 388 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,640 presence at NRF this. Year certainly NRF on an annual 389 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,680 basis in New York shop Hawk these larger events we do you 390 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,560 know one of our most successful events not to plug but we have 391 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,720 we have an event that we run in Hawk in Hong Kong every November 392 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,440 called Global Sourcing Day. Oh, we sponsor and produce this 393 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,160 event ourselves 100% full full full day. 394 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,440 And you know we're in the heart we're in the heart of global 395 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,120 sourcing for Consumer Packaged Goods and products and 396 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,200 merchandise there in in Hong Kong. 397 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:14,040 And so we have leaders, managing directors, supply chain leaders 398 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,320 from all over greater greater Asia and and several from Europe 399 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,640 actually that come in for that, that day. 400 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,280 So people can see that on our website actually. 401 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,200 What's the, what's the outcome of the event? 402 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,000 So is it, are you, is it like people talking about various 403 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,760 elements of supply chain? Is it? 404 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,800 Is it some workshops or bit of everything? 405 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,160 Yeah, yeah. It's we primarily bring in 406 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,840 experts in the space of supply chain, supply chain 407 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,800 optimization. We bring in efforts in the 408 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,120 around topics of environmental, social, governance and 409 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,920 compliance. We bring in logistics experts, 410 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:01,640 run panels, offline workshops as well, and of course give folks 411 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,240 exposure to a lot of a lot of digital tools and platforms that 412 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,400 we either connect to or that we develop ourselves. 413 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,600 That's fantastic. What's the event called? 414 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,520 Sorry. Yeah, Global Sourcing Day. 415 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,120 Global Sourcing, I was just going to I'll put, I'll put the 416 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:20,680 I'll put the link in the show notes. 417 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,160 Eric, thank you so much for giving up your morning. 418 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,800 It was really great pleasure and hopefully maybe see you at NRF 419 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,400 in January. All right. 420 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,000 Fantastic, Alex. Look forward to it. 421 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,080 Thanks for the opportunity.