1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,080 I run on nicotine and caffeine. We're we're the. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:08,480 Same age and I tell you anymore if I'm I drink a lot of water. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,400 I had some stomach issues and the doctor says drink water. 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,120 It really helps with the end of the indigestion real bad. 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,600 It's just chewing, but I won't give it up. 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,360 But if I can sleep through the night or get about four or five 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,000 hours without having to get up and pee. 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,800 Yeah, I know. I know exactly exactly what 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,520 you're talking about. You know what I that's, that's 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,160 me. When we fly we, we have family 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,320 out of state so we have to fly there. 12 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:46,360 The day before I leave, I start dehydrating myself. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,640 I can't stand to get on a plane and have to try to pee and it 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,440 never fails. I don't know if it's the cabin 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,320 pressure or what. I can go pee 5 seconds before I 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,480 get on. As soon as he gets up and make 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,160 air, I got to go pee, you know, and everyone you're walking down 18 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,480 the hall. But I'll try to get people out 19 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,960 of your way. Especially when you got really, 20 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:12,920 really good. Yeah, so I've learned to just 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,400 dehydrate myself like crazy. Before and. 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,840 It never fails. It never fails. 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,480 It seems like I drink more that night. 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,880 Whenever I go to bed, I have to have something right there 25 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,840 because, yeah, I get up three or three times to do my my 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,840 nebulizer and then you have to have something to drink to wash 27 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,480 the yuckiness out. Blood down. 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:49,240 My grandson's got asthma real bad and he starts wheezing or he 29 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:54,840 just and we're fighting with the insurance company to get him one 30 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,000 of those breathing things so they can give him treatments at 31 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,680 home instead of having to go pay $1000 at the ER to give a 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,760 breathing treatment. The insurance company says, well 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,840 no, you got to have a prescription from a doctor to 34 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,520 get it. We're going. 35 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,600 You do? Although both my machines were 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,200 gave to me. Yeah, I didn't have to the 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,200 steroid. Stuff that you put in you have a 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:21,720 prescription. Though, right? 39 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,600 That's how that works. They're all sulfate and 40 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,840 something. OK, he's going to be nice to you 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,280 anyway. I know you said. 42 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,800 No, but I always thought you'll be drinking somebody and I'm 43 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,840 offering, making them have a little advantage over me. 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,840 Tony, they've met you before and I want to kind of I thank you 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,840 for coming down here to talk. To well, you know, as a state 46 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,320 employee, you know, it's something we have to do well, we 47 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,360 have to abide by all. But we appreciate. 48 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,320 Law enforcements and all that. And here's where we're kind of 49 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,520 bad. We're, we're still looking at 50 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:08,440 the Kirsten Hatfield thing and we're going back and we're 51 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,080 talking to a lot of people and I know over the years. 52 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,440 You weren't there the first time they got down, were you? 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,520 You know. Now, I was with Miller the the 54 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,440 last time I talked to you about the other deal. 55 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:30,800 You over 17 years, I know in my life I've changed a lot and so 56 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,360 we wanted to talk to you about if you can kind of tell me 17 57 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,600 years ago how your life was, how that neighborhood was, what was 58 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,320 going on in that neighborhood. I know I've talked, I've read 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:50,720 some of the reports that from the interviews before and how it 60 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,040 appears to me that you're, they call you Uncle Tony around there 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,160 because you care about the kids. You will. 62 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,640 Feed the kids Basically, when I moved there, lived there, there 63 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,360 was a bunch of older people that was like an I don't know, not 64 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,760 that no retirement place, but most of the people in that area 65 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,960 were old retirees And you know, I being I like doing stuff all 66 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,680 the time. You know, I was always outside 67 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,640 and somebody's working on their vehicle. 68 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,000 Got to go be busy body. Hey, you know, help them or 69 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,000 somebody's washing machine was broke down with older people, 70 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,920 you know, they can't knight older people, you know, can't do 71 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,480 stuff. And I've always been 72 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,040 mechanically inclined, you know, where I could figure stuff out, 73 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,440 you know, or help them move this or, you know, just I've always 74 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,320 been, I don't know about friendly, but neighborly. 75 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,920 And that being my first home, you know, or try to make it 76 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,720 work. That neighborhood was my home. 77 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,080 Yeah, well, did you help any of the kids over there? 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:56,720 Well, I wouldn't feed them pizza. 79 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,800 Yeah, I've always, there's always. 80 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,680 That's my. Kool-aid House. 81 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,280 Well, I don't know about kool-aid. 82 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,120 That's always been my pet peeve. It's, I grew up hungry, you 83 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,040 know, and I don't there's a lot of kids hungry, you know, and I, 84 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,720 I, I don't like that. I mean, not where I'd go out of 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,760 my way. Hey, hungry. 86 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,200 But I mean, you see kids, you're over there eating something and 87 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,120 they're just, you know, you see them drunk, they're naked. 88 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,160 I can't stand that. And I'm that like that now. 89 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,040 I got 2 damn kids in my house. Drone boys. 90 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,240 One they he says that when he was at his house they they 91 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,320 didn't he didn't eat from Monday to Friday till he got to my 92 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,080 house. You know, that's, that's one of 93 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,320 those stories. I I want to turn my phone off so 94 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,240 people. Will leave. 95 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:50,120 Me alone while we get started here. 96 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,640 Tony, let me go ahead and I want to read your Miranda warning, 97 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,760 OK? You have the right to remain 98 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,360 silent. Anything you say can and will be 99 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:58,840 used against you in affordable law. 100 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,480 You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have them present 101 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:02,800 with you while you're being questioned. 102 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,840 If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to 103 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,080 represent you before any questioning, if you wish one. 104 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,080 And if you decide to make a statement, you can stop at any 105 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,280 time. And do you understand each of 106 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:16,480 those rights? I can explain to you having 107 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,440 those rights in mind. Do you wish to talk to us? 108 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:27,160 OK, As my partner Landers said, we're still working on the 109 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,520 Hatfield case, OK. And there's some things that we 110 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,960 want to go back over with you. We try to be as thorough as we 111 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,560 can be on cases like this. And I'd like to go back 112 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,880 initially over some of what you've already talked to 113 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,280 Detective Miller about in the past. 114 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:48,960 I wasn't there. I'm kind of up to speed on some 115 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:54,520 of it. But my understanding is, is when 116 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,840 Kirsten disappeared, you were still living there at 11 O 4, 117 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:06,080 correct. OK, Do you mind just initially 118 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:12,560 kind of take us back to 1997 and go back over that maybe that 119 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,600 evening before and end of that morning when all of it all kind 120 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,240 of started blowing up and just best you can tell us everything 121 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,000 you remember and and take your time. 122 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,400 I know we're going back some some. 123 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,680 Years, yeah. And I'm starting to get that old 124 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,680 timer stuff. But really the only thing I can 125 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,200 really remember is afterwards, you know, when you know, because 126 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,640 it, it was just a, a typical day, you know, I got off work, 127 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,680 went home that supper, watched TV. 128 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:53,240 When I was used to being a landscaper, my yard was my 129 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,600 pride. Everybody wanted to play in my 130 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,200 yard because my yard was nothing but Bermuda. 131 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,680 I mean, I had, you know, I just had Bermuda grass. 132 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,200 But I mean, not that they came over there, but that's what I 133 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,840 did. I always, I always worked for my 134 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,320 yard. And back then you were you said 135 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,160 you were working at the Capitol. So God see, you were very 136 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,960 experienced in the yard. I. 137 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Well, you know, got chemical license, all the gap and all 138 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,840 that, yeah. OK. 139 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,400 You remember anything about the the day or evening before? 140 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,720 You said it was just a typical day. 141 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,760 You worked all day and then went home. 142 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:36,880 You remember anything unusual about that evening that stands 143 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,440 out to you? No, other than what I told them 144 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,360 about, you know, seeing the white truck, you know, in front 145 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,600 of their, the white Chevy truck in front of their yard. 146 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,960 OK. You know, I, like I said, I 147 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,800 didn't, I didn't have anything to do with those people. 148 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,640 Didn't know them at all. You know, it's not like I went. 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,240 Hey, yeah, You, you got to live girls. 150 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,320 No, it wouldn't look like that. I was usually, I was outside 151 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,720 working in my yard, you know, either talk to the neighbors or 152 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,240 kid would come by, tell me, can you fix my bike? 153 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,800 You know, stuff like that. You know, it wouldn't like I'd 154 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,600 tell them to come over or anything. 155 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,080 I wouldn't go to other people's houses unless, you know, I, I 156 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,280 was needed or something like that. 157 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,960 But everybody just got, oh, Tony will fix your bike and blah, 158 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,000 blah, blah, you know, and not try to make it feel like, you 159 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,840 know, that was kind of a safe place, you know, for, you know, 160 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,480 because I had Tristy at the time. 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,480 She wasn't there during that time, but I had Tristy there 162 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,520 since she was, you know, small. And whenever she was there, you 163 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,200 know, the kids would come and play with her. 164 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:41,960 And she was my, well, one of my girlfriend's daughters that 165 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,640 stayed with me a lot. So you. 166 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,120 Had a good bond with Tristy, I'm assuming, yeah. 167 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,200 Yeah, but she had her mom. Yeah. 168 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,600 Who? Who was Mom? 169 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,320 Mom's dad. Unfortunately, Melanie. 170 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,160 I wonder which name she want to go to. 171 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,240 How? How tristy now? 172 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,000 Growing, I'm assuming, yeah, about 30. 173 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,000 OK. No, I, we don't talk that much 174 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,160 anymore because everybody's into this computer stuff and that's 175 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,640 how they communicate. But my daughter was looking on 176 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,800 her Facebook and she'd send us a text that she was fixing to have 177 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,080 a or that I'm a grandpa. No, she had a daughter. 178 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,800 You said you didn't know them. I'm assuming you're meaning 179 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,320 Shannon and Hurston. And I couldn't even tell you how 180 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,680 long they've they've lived there. 181 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,560 I was going to actually ask you that. 182 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,840 So you didn't know how long they've been living there when 183 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,800 this happened? I going to think they hadn't 184 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,160 been there very long. And, and tell me what you 185 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,840 remember about that. Do you remember seeing them move 186 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:52,720 in or anything? No. 187 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,880 No, I'm trying to remember. I there were a friend of mine 188 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,960 lived in that house. I can't remember what his damn 189 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:11,800 name is, but he had a janitorial service, Janet King, and I'd 190 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,280 visit with him. I helped him put the fence up 191 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,440 around his house, you know, helped him. 192 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,440 In fact, his boy come up missing one day. 193 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:21,760 Really. Yeah. 194 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,120 He was like 7 or 8 or younger than that. 195 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,000 And we went looking everywhere for him. 196 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,480 We finally found him. He was under the bed with the 197 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,040 place pretty crawl underneath the bed. 198 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,720 But I mean, everybody was freaking. 199 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,800 We had Midwest City out there and of course, you know, 200 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,960 everybody in the neighborhood was out there looking at me and 201 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,600 you were, you know, going up St. you know, hauling his name and 202 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,240 then she calls it. Yeah, we found him. 203 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,920 He's like there's. A good that's usually where we 204 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,080 start. You learned that early on in 205 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,800 that FPO school. Check all the closets, check 206 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,480 check out in the boat in the backyard and shit. 207 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,760 So you're saying this friend of yours lived at the house, We're 208 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:00,960 Shannon and Kirsten moved, Right. 209 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,520 OK. And was that immediately before 210 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:13,960 them or do you know? You remember, I don't remember, 211 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,760 to tell you the truth. And I don't remember if after he 212 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,240 moved out, if there had been somebody in that house before 213 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,120 they did or, or what. I don't remember. 214 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,760 You remember that guy's name? You said. 215 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,360 You didn't, William. Was his first name. 216 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,040 OK. I don't remember what his last 217 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,240 name was that. That's been football back. 218 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,760 And you said you helped put up the fence around the property, 219 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,360 so we're talking about the stocking fence in the back. 220 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,920 So you and William put that up. Yeah, plank at a time. 221 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,800 That's the old, old school way. Well, actually we had to put it 222 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,160 up twice because we had a storm coming and it moved one side all 223 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,600 the way back down. We had to go pay back. 224 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,320 We got him to finally put the the steel, the metal hose. 225 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:07,200 Yeah. OK, so had you ever been inside 226 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,560 that house when that gentleman lived there, William? 227 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. 228 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,680 And you don't recall his name, but he owned or worked for Danny 229 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,960 Can. I think he he had a, what do you 230 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:27,000 call it, you know? Anyway, yeah, janitorial 231 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,000 service, yeah, it was a janitorial service. 232 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,480 But you know, you can have a, a piece of that company, but you 233 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,360 still be the company that you're, you're involved. 234 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,600 That's the critter. I was like before. 235 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,200 So you never, I'm assuming you probably saw Shannon and Perston 236 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,880 running around the neighborhood and so forth. 237 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,200 To tell you the truth, until that happened, I, I, I think 238 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,760 I've seen the kid one time she was playing with the crystal 239 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:04,400 that lived up the street, but I don't remember if it was in that 240 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,280 time frame or what. I don't. 241 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,080 I don't really don't because I like I said, I didn't pay no 242 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,360 attention. Do you remember ever like giving 243 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,560 food to Kirsten or talking to Kirsten? 244 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,960 Was she ever at your house? Anything like that I'm. 245 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,240 I'm, I'm actually a leery guy until, you know, people start 246 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,960 coming around, you know, I, I just, I'm just. 247 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,280 Oh, yeah. I will be your friend, you know? 248 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,720 No, not like that. But I didn't know. 249 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,120 I didn't, I, I didn't have, don't, didn't pay attention to, 250 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,480 you know, who I was there or who they were, you know, things like 251 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,320 that in my world just falling because, you know, we 252 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:43,680 accidentally meet. Oh, OK. 253 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,200 Yeah. Now I know you, you know then, 254 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,360 but no, never. Never. 255 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,840 Do you ever recall helping Kirsten with her by no or 256 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,160 anything? You don't remember any 257 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,920 interactions with them. No, I know there would be any 258 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:55,760 interactions. I didn't. 259 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,040 I didn't know them at all. And I like I said, I don't even 260 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,680 know how long they'd been living there until that happened. 261 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,520 OK, Because I was always me. That was back when I was 262 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,120 fishing. I'd juicy come off of work and 263 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,400 load up my poles, go to Drudman and sometimes I'd stay there all 264 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:18,720 night, but I'd always have, you know, second jobs, you know, 265 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,120 after after hour jobs, either landscaping or anything, 266 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:29,120 anything to make a bug. I'm pretty sure that Detective 267 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,640 Miller talked to you this before, but am I correct that 268 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,800 you said you had never been over there mowing for Shannon or on 269 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,760 her property or seems like that that come up somebody thought 270 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,520 you might have been mowing over there or something? 271 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,680 No, he was. Asking it's about something 272 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,880 about a handyman was what he was asking me about. 273 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,240 OK well do you remember ever mowing over there or anything 274 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,160 like that? No. 275 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,200 OK did while they lived there. Do you remember ever being in 276 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,560 the yard, the front or backyard for any reason? 277 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,040 OK, how about in the house? Nope. 278 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,240 OK, so there was never any time that Shannon asked for your help 279 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,320 to fix this or that or mow the yard for me or? 280 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,040 OK, just tell you the truth then. 281 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,120 The only and I didn't even recognize her when y'all showed 282 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,880 me the pictures of her. That was the only time I could 283 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,640 actually say, OK, that's you know, I met her once afterwards 284 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,720 she was going up and down the street and you know, she was 285 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,600 still looking for her kid and you know, I met her once. 286 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,760 So I gave her some money so she'd have gas money so she 287 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,360 could keep doing what she was doing, you know? 288 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,120 Was this like in the day days after or? 289 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,680 Talking a long time. Let, let, let me bounce back a 290 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,280 little bit. We got off a little bit off 291 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,240 track. I was kind of having you go back 292 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,360 over what you remembered through the night and I, I read over 293 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,520 the, the FBI notes that they took when they talked to you. 294 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,040 I guess there was some information about you hearing 295 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:03,880 dogs. Barking. 296 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,119 I had a dog in the backyard. Dog. 297 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,680 His name was Dog. About 3:00 or 4:00 in the 298 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,240 morning you went to raising hell. 299 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,680 So I just, you know, believe it or not, in my neighborhood we 300 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,280 still got skunks and possums and stuff like that, plus other 301 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,440 dogs, you know. So I don't know why that woke me 302 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:25,400 up, but because I usually didn't wake up and, and usually he's 303 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,840 out inside anyway. But it woke me up and he was 304 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,880 barking at that back fence, at our back fence. 305 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,760 But at the time, as you walk out my back door, I had an apricot 306 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,200 tree. So unless you went out there, 307 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,240 you know, you couldn't see. And I just hollered at him 308 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,560 because, you know, thinking there was another dog because 309 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,120 there was always in traffic. There was human traffic back 310 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:47,840 there. But usually there was other 311 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,240 dogs. Yeah, there was other dogs or 312 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,960 cats. There's always animals through 313 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,280 there. So I just, you know, I really 314 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,760 didn't think nothing about it. I just hollered at him and he 315 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,320 came in and I went back to bed. So you actually let him back 316 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,640 into the house? So you open what, your back 317 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,080 door, I'm assuming, and let him know. 318 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,240 Did you go investigate? Did you look down the alley? 319 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:08,960 Anything like that? No, because. 320 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,680 Usually in the past, whenever I did, that's what it was, was, 321 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,640 you know, either another dog or people use that alleyway, you 322 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:17,960 know, to get through it. Why? 323 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,920 I don't know because I mean, I don't know where you'd be going 324 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,360 other than from house to house, but there was always, not 325 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,160 always, but there was, there was traffic. 326 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,960 And, and Speaking of the alleyway, did you have any kind 327 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,680 of a gate or anything that went out to it? 328 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,800 So you didn't have access to it through your backyard? 329 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,400 I, I mean, I, I think that'd be be ideal to be able to go out in 330 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,280 the alley and you could back a trailer up and just seems like 331 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:47,040 everybody had a. Gate. 332 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,280 Well, the house next door to me had didn't have a fence, so 333 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,160 whenever I weed eat it or you know did whatever, 'cause I 334 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,560 always weed eat it, you know 2 foot around from my fence, you 335 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,840 know, next door and then that alleyway quits. 336 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,960 The alleyway was. 'Cause I read your, your 337 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,680 statement, You said you saw your gate ajar. 338 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,800 Which gate was that gate ajar? Yeah. 339 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,840 You didn't have a gate on the back or on the side. 340 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,480 Did you have a gate on the side of that? 341 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,680 Yeah, we got a gate. Well, it's yeah, it's a gay, but 342 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:30,960 no, it wouldn't 1 ajar, OK. Anything else that night after 343 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,120 you let dog back in? Did anything else occur that you 344 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:38,000 remember? No, I went back to bed. 345 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,120 And then when did you first become aware of Kirsten was 346 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,920 missing and all that? Going well, the next day there 347 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,760 was all that activity and I asked neighbor across the street 348 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,440 what was going on. They said they couldn't find 349 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,080 Kirsten. And I didn't think nothing about 350 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,200 it. You know, I went to work and 351 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,840 then I, I don't remember if she called me or I called over there 352 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,480 or what. And they said there's one people 353 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,760 back, you know, because they wanted to go to our houses and 354 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,720 blah, blah, blah. So clocked out and came back 355 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,360 home. Do you remember what time it was 356 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,200 that you clocked out, came back home? 357 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,640 Was this morning? Was this afternoon. 358 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,880 Probably mid morning, something like that. 359 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,480 Now, who was the friend that you were communicating? 360 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,720 With it was and I don't today. I don't know what her name is. 361 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,040 Y'all showed me a picture of her. 362 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,680 I think y'all showed me a picture of her Anyway of her 363 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:33,080 husband Don is this. The Halsey's Tiffany Halsey and 364 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:38,520 Don Halsey. Yeah, I'm not sure if if if Mr. 365 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,000 Halsey is Don or not. Did you have everybody that 366 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,720 called me? So there was, there was that we 367 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,720 were wanted back at our house. OK. 368 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,160 So I I came home OK. And then what happened? 369 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,720 I just sat there. Did did any of our officers or 370 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,760 the FBI or anybody come by? It was the FBI, you know, OK, we 371 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,360 came in, took statements, you know, walked through the house 372 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,320 and, you know, wanted to go in the backyard and, you know, 373 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,400 because I had a shed back there. You want to look in the shed 374 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,240 and. OK, so he did look through the 375 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,920 house and look through the shed. You probably don't remember who 376 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:16,960 that was, I'm sure. OK. 377 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,520 And did he? Was he just? 378 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,880 Asking you general questions about first Gen. and did you 379 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,000 know where have you seen her that kind of thing or? 380 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,520 Basically. Did you write out a statement 381 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,400 for him or did he? Did he just had a conversation? 382 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,960 I thought he brought out a statement, but he asked me if 383 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,800 he'd come in. He wanted, you know, asked me 384 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,320 what I knew, but at the time really wasn't anything he wanted 385 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,640 to. He said they was going through 386 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,720 the canvassing, the neighborhood and, you know, asking everybody. 387 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:53,440 And so, yeah. 17 years ago, honey, were you experimenting 388 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,040 with any drugs? No, never did. 389 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,840 No, I drink beer. Just drank. 390 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,840 I drink beer. But as far as drugs, no. 391 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,320 Was cursed than ever one of the kids that you had seen? 392 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:10,960 Or was there any talk in the neighborhood about her being 393 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:17,560 mistreated or abused or in need? I really I had no inkling that 394 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,360 they even existed until after that. 395 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,760 I didn't know I had. Never seen her. 396 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,080 Anything maybe once or twice and didn't think nothing about it. 397 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:33,080 You know, just another kid. Speaking of 17 years ago, who? 398 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,280 Who all was living there at your house back then? 399 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:36,680 Just me. OK. 400 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,240 She lived alone. Do you recall? 401 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,680 Were you dating anybody? Were you? 402 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,520 Did you have a girlfriend? Me and Melody were off and on. 403 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,600 OK. Years. 404 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,360 For years. And you said that was Melody 405 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,480 Howe, right? And that's what's her daughter's 406 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,200 name. Tristy. 407 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,600 She's got two daughters, Tristy and Robin. 408 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,440 Tristy, Tri. STSTI and Robin. 409 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:07,400 Robin, did you say STI or why? OK, do you know what Tristy and 410 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,160 Robin's last names are? Tristy's was howl at the time. 411 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,080 Robin was married, I think at the time. 412 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,200 So she was going for something different. 413 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,280 Would Melody come stay the night with you sometime? 414 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,400 That kind of thing. OK, but she didn't live there 415 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,040 full time. But she she's, like I said, she 416 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,080 passed away about four or five years ago. 417 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:41,640 That's right. That's not good. 418 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,320 As far as other people you hung out with back then, do you have 419 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,080 any good friends or anybody that you associated with in the 420 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,240 neighborhood or? Oh, in the neighborhood? 421 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:58,000 No, no. OK, how about I mean just 422 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,640 generally like who were your friends best you can recall back 423 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,800 then? Basically just people that I 424 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,280 worked with. OK. 425 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:10,440 Up there at the Capitol. No, no long lost power from 426 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,680 school or anything. Yeah, I guess you moved off from 427 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,960 New Mexico and left them there. Yeah, and I'm not the kind that 428 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,000 goes to a bar. You know, If I'm not drink, I 429 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:26,120 drink at home. I mean, I know I've met a lot of 430 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:31,040 people, but so you. You would drink some but didn't 431 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,760 do any, didn't experiment with drugs, didn't do marijuana 432 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,920 anything. Did they drug test back back in 433 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:49,920 them days at your work? Well, they always hold that over 434 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,120 on us, you know, but we never, we never had a got UA. 435 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,760 OK. So it was kind of the the 436 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,720 threat. Yeah, there was some not recent 437 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,280 look of them. Have you ever had any trouble 438 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,960 with the law before? Years ago, first degree 439 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,840 burglary, assault and dog with a dangerous weapon. 440 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,400 I think I told your partner that really that when I was a dumb 441 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:16,640 kid. How? 442 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,640 How long ago? Was that I was I think fixed 443 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,960 turned 18. So you were just a boy? 444 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,440 And all about it. My girlfriend. 445 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,360 Walters. Walters, Oklahoma. 446 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:37,360 Oh, OK, up in Cotton County. I got out of Job Corps I they 447 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:40,120 found me a job there in Walters as a diesel mechanic. 448 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,400 Is that how you bought your training was? 449 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,160 Actually, I was training for an auto mechanic, but they found me 450 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,840 a job as a diesel mechanic and the counselor at Job Corps, he 451 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,280 made some deal with the government that if the 452 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,160 government or the employer would pay half the wages, they would 453 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,360 pay, you know, for OJT. So it was a pretty good deal. 454 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,800 Yeah, it was. I'm surprised that decent you 455 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,960 didn't stay with that. Those decent mechanics make some 456 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,880 money. Yeah, but it's. 457 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,560 Hard work. I mean it can be harder than 458 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,640 weed eating all the. Time some of the some of the 459 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:20,480 parts weigh heads for one of the burst tiles was probably 200 lbs 460 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,320 and you got you got a tire about that high and you got to get it 461 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,280 up on that and get it, you know, on the block. 462 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,960 And then you're torquing stuff at 240 foot pounds, you know, 463 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,400 laying on your back and it's, it's hard. 464 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,160 In the last 17 years Tony, have you, have you changed much? 465 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,680 Is this how you were 17 years ago? 466 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,440 Just a hard working man. Yeah, that's basically it. 467 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,200 It changed older wise, but no. And I'm not the same person I 468 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,080 was 17 years ago. I've matured a little bit. 469 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,680 I wish I could say that. Life changes people, you know? 470 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,880 As you get older, you start recognizing things that you that 471 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,480 you could handle differently than what you if you had it to 472 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,160 do over again, you'd change. You know I can. 473 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,720 That's the thing, we can't, we can't ever change it. 474 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,080 No, you can't change what happened, but sometimes you can 475 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,800 make things better. I remember a few years ago I 476 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,440 went to my high school reunion and I seen a kid that honestly, 477 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,440 I just tormented the death. I made his and I was able to 478 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,400 find him and. Make amends I. 479 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,520 Make amends and apologize and tell him how, you know what, I 480 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,240 was immature at the time and asked for his forgiveness. 481 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,760 And, you know, I think that by the end of he actually 482 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,400 remembered some of the things I'd done and we talked about it 483 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,600 and I, I felt a lot better. And I think he felt better at 484 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,040 the end. I know I did when he said he 485 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,280 gave me some absolution, Some forgiveness for what? 486 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,840 Yeah. I know you were just, you 487 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,800 weren't very mature back then and you know. 488 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,800 And it's good for your own self respect too. 489 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,360 It is to get it out and I tell you about the weight and I don't 490 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:14,800 know why God had put on me a burden of of guilt. 491 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,640 I, I want to say I want to use the word guilt, but I really 492 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,480 felt like after I did that, I had a a new outlook and because 493 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,080 I wasn't I picked on him. But I I also, you know, other 494 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:35,240 kids does but and it helped me deal with my tormentors and 495 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,760 forgiving them and realizing because I came from a poor 496 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,200 family. I was a white trailer, white 497 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,320 trash, lived in a trailer park. You know, you know what I'm 498 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,440 saying? I didn't have the nice clothes 499 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,200 and I had two pairs of blue jeans and PF Flyers. 500 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,840 Remember PF Flyers if I was really lucky, I got from the 501 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,000 Poonos Linda shoes or jeans. No, PF Flyers were black and 502 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,800 white tennis shoes. They were the. 1st. 503 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,840 Ones that you rent that you could run really fast. 504 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,840 When I was like moved to California my problem was 505 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,960 whenever growing up I had crooked feet and the only thing 506 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,520 that was fixed up was couple of boots. 507 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:19,400 So when I moved to Delano, CA I was young kid in high school and 508 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,240 had couple of boots. I imagine. 509 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,560 It wasn't. Sandals and tennis shoes and all 510 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,640 that. But you know, I, I. 511 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,640 I was very, I felt. Very fortunate to be able to 512 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,320 that he was at this reunion and you know, we were a small class. 513 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,120 There was only about 50 of us, so we all knew each other. 514 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,920 And, you know, he was dirt poor like me and which made it even 515 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,400 worse. You know, I should have been 516 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,240 picking on the on. The rich kid. 517 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,680 On the rich Kid, but I didn't. The point being that I really 518 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,640 felt a lot better about it and even now after I mean that. 519 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,240 Heck, that was my 25th high school referee. 520 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,720 You know, reunion. That I was able to do that. 521 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,320 He still picks on me though. So he really hadn't changed his 522 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,880 wedding. That's he he like. 523 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,640 He asked for next week. He's. 524 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,000 Gone fishing. The week before, he was gone 525 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,520 fishing. You get to go fishing? 526 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,200 Yeah, for a week. Don't, don't. 527 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,200 That's what radiation. Because he like just when he's 528 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,080 gone. It's all right, it's my therapy, 529 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,320 it's all right. Actually, it is therapy. 530 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,080 It's very good therapy. It is. 531 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,960 I'm like you, I've worked. I mean, that's all I've ever 532 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,000 known is. Work. 533 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,600 But now my wife doesn't understand that working is 534 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,160 therapy too, especially. Well, I've always, I've always 535 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:46,240 suffered from depression, but young kid so and that always 536 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,960 seems like working. I guess get your mind off of 537 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200 whatever it is you're thinking about or you know, whatever. 538 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,840 So that's all I do is work. You can get a sense of 539 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,000 accomplishment, too. That's one thing we really. 540 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,320 Especially when it's your your folks tell you that you ain't 541 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,680 worth the shit, you'll never mind to hell beans and blah blah 542 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,080 blah blah blah blah. Yeah. 543 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,840 I know. Show you the yeah. 544 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,600 I don't have to grow up in. Self environment like that. 545 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,800 That's that's a shame. I remember my dad, he never 546 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,800 wrestled in, went to state and dad never saw me wrestle, you 547 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,880 know, and I asked him about it one day and it's been bothered 548 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,880 me for years. And he goes, well, I never 549 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,240 discouraged you from doing it. And now get you. 550 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,840 And he goes and he goes. My dad would down there on the 551 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,000 farm paw. He was a rough man, you know, he 552 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,600 would browbeat those boys. So dad has progressed to he's 553 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,200 better than his father. Hopefully I'm better than my 554 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,920 father was as far as encouraging. 555 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,840 Yeah, but that's that's telling you that he didn't discourage 556 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:58,840 you, you know. That's wrong. 557 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,880 And that affects you? Yeah. 558 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,720 I mean, that stays with you for life. 559 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,280 I've I'm always on my boy because my grandson's the 560 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,920 greatest thing who walks the face of the earth, and I'm 561 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,800 always on him. Hey, you're too hard on that 562 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:12,960 boy. You're too hard on that boy. 563 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,040 You're too hard on him. And so hopefully he, he's a 564 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,160 better father than I am. He was, he is so. 565 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:28,120 But I was very fortunate to get to get some things off my chest 566 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,000 over the years. And as I get older, I, you know, 567 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:38,800 my dad has even talked to me about things that he has wished 568 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,960 he had redone, you know? Yeah, I think everybody has my 569 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:48,440 only well done within that really, and that's probably 570 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,000 probably getting completely off the deal. 571 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,480 But when I left Walters, when I got in trouble with Walters, I 572 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,040 was going out with an Angel. I mean a good. 573 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,240 Woman, huh? My biggest mistake. 574 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,080 Yeah, I fucked up big time. Did you? 575 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,320 That's the only time I can really stay there. 576 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,440 I I dressed up. With you camper. 577 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,160 Well, yeah, that's basically what it what had happened, you 578 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,760 know, he was picking on her and I had like a dumb kid had to go 579 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,960 do something about it, you know? Well, not necessarily a dumb 580 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,480 kid. Sometimes men got to do. 581 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,120 Well, now you know there's other ways of doing stuff but. 582 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,040 And of course, I've been drinking. 583 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,120 Right. That's not the best decision 584 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,440 making process conducive to great decision making. 585 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,160 Believe me. I was telling my partner as we 586 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,480 was driving that out to your work that I was 16 years old and 587 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,680 we'd cut school and back then that's where we we went 588 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:51,720 drinking. Dirty Bird. 589 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:57,160 Dirty Bird. And now that I've put my Mustang 590 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,720 in the ditch out there and I shouldn't have and I tried. 591 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,280 Telling them I probably found 200 gold rings and something up 592 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,040 there. Wow, do they wash up on the bank 593 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,719 with current waves or do you think they get lost there? 594 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,880 Well, they get lost and then they get covered up, you know, 595 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,480 because of the wave action. And then the wave action 596 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,600 uncovers it again. And then you have to be at the 597 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,199 right time at the right place. So every time, you know, after 598 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,159 it winds blowing, you know, I checked my because I I hate 599 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,760 glass in the water. Yeah, that's another one of my 600 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,760 pet peeves. Yeah, I'm stepping on that. 601 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,920 Well, first, first month I was there, I was out at Turkey Pass 602 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,840 picking up trash and people were, yeah, from out of state. 603 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,800 Kid goes in the water. What's the first thing he does? 604 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,920 Steps on a damn rusty hook. And after that, I thought now, 605 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:52,239 so every day, every day, I'd go out there and not have a couple 606 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,120 of five gallon buckets and I'd fill them suckers up. 607 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,560 OK, You know I do that enough. You know I get it all. 608 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,560 But you don't. You'll be surprised. 609 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,400 You get out there and you have it spotless next day, next week, 610 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,040 like nothing ever. You know, you never do that. 611 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:06,480 Nothing. Yeah. 612 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,680 Yeah. Hey to get back to. 613 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,560 What we're here about, I'm not. I mean, you've been living there 614 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,840 all these years since Kirsten went missing. 615 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,200 I'm curious about your your thoughts on what happened, who 616 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,800 might be involved, that kind of thing. 617 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,080 I don't know, tell you the truth, like I said, I didn't 618 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,400 know them. But the one thing that's always 619 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,040 bothered me that she left the mom, she went to Jones, I guess 620 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,960 with her dad or something like that. 621 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,440 I, you could have got me off out of my house. 622 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,320 You know, I mean, I'm not whether she comes back or you 623 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,560 know what, if somebody makes a call or, you know, something 624 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,320 like that, I, there was no way I'd left that house. 625 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,560 That's the only thing that bothers me. 626 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,880 Yeah. So you felt like she shouldn't 627 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,160 have left, huh? Yeah, Yeah. 628 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,440 Did you ever at any. Point over these years or or 629 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,920 back when it occurred, have any knowledge of what happened or 630 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,120 know who was involved or you in any way involved? 631 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,480 No, no. So you're not responsible for 632 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,800 person's disappearance? No, didn't play any part in 633 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,640 that. Like I said, didn't know, didn't 634 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,480 have. Like I said, I just probably, 635 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,360 you know, might have seen her bullets, flies playing with the 636 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,040 kids, but other than that, I didn't, I didn't know. 637 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,200 Well, just out of curiosity, what do you think the motivation 638 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,920 was of whoever did this? I mean, why would this have 639 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,920 happened? Well, Darren, I could have told 640 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,680 you, but after over the years, you know, and hearing the rumors 641 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,400 and this and that and the other me, it always boils down the 642 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:54,480 drugs, you know, I heard that she was on meth and cocaine and 643 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,600 all this other Don's wife was the same thing. 644 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,840 You know, she said, yeah, she'd been over there, you know, that 645 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,960 night and they got lit up. So apparently she did get lit up 646 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,240 because, you know, if somebody did come in, I mean, when you 647 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:13,600 heard it. I don't know so, but I was 648 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,440 telling. You that she left Kirsten home 649 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,720 alone, you think? Or I. 650 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,760 Don't know. I'm sure she did, but I don't 651 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,560 know. Like I said, I didn't know and I 652 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,680 really didn't pay much attention to to Don and his wife. 653 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,640 It's just I read it. They live. 654 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,840 I'm I'm pretty sure that had all of this to me. 655 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,680 She had to go down the street, not straight, just Cady corner, 656 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,880 the little White House, Cady Corner for me. 657 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,560 And they had two or three kids and I come home one day and I 658 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,000 was rewarding myself. I did something and I was 659 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,760 stopped at Kentucky Fried Children. 660 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,240 Got me family packet chicken. I was going to go to town and 661 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,320 the kids when I walked up there was just the one. 662 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,920 They were eyeballing me, you know, like they hadn't ate 663 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,120 nothing. I mean, they really, if you, if 664 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,720 you'd have seen them, you'd have thought that too, because, I 665 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,040 mean, they were skinny. So I got me a piece of chicken. 666 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,240 I was chewing on it and they just, you want some chicken? 667 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,320 Is that all I was baking out of this? 668 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,520 Yeah. But I just gave me one damn 669 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:18,040 thing because I, I know it's not that it's something everybody do 670 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:20,560 because we got kids that are, you know. 671 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,880 Yeah. And I know he was a lot about 672 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,400 trade, but he, you know, talking to him a time or two, you know, 673 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:31,920 things weren't going right for him. 674 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,840 And, you know, he didn't have money and all that. 675 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,080 So, yeah, I didn't, I didn't have a problem. 676 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,000 You know what are we? Talking about was a well. 677 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640 From looking back over the history I I understood that 678 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,560 Shannon's brother, I guess stayed with you. 679 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,640 In a short. Time, Aaron. 680 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,480 Aaron, tell us about that. How did that happen? 681 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,920 And he was in the neighborhood, you know, he's looking, 682 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:03,640 apparently looking for, you know, his niece. 683 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,120 So I'm out there going down and he stops and he talks, you know, 684 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,240 anything and blah, blah, blah. You know, we just got to 685 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:11,560 talking. And, you know, he's living in 686 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,400 the Dome, you know, under bridge. 687 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,160 And dude, you know, I found out already that he'd that night 688 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,120 that he'd been locked up, you know, so he wasn't a suspect in 689 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,520 motherfucks. So, yeah, I opened my house to, 690 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,800 you know, he got he had did that for anybody, you know, it's safe 691 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,840 to say. But that's the kind of guy I am. 692 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,000 So he needed a place to sell. There's a couch, you know, you 693 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,440 can trash here for a couple days and, you know, try to do what 694 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,040 you got to do to, you know, figure out what happened to your 695 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,960 niece. Because I mean, to me that's 696 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,760 like, y'all, that's serious. Sure. 697 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,040 Absolutely. How long after a person went 698 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,320 missing did this happen? Was it like the same week? 699 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:50,680 Was it? Yeah. 700 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,040 Probably in the same. Week and the same week and then 701 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,640 I. Can't, I can't verify that 702 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,440 because like I said, that's that's been a while. 703 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,040 But yeah, it was probably about the same week. 704 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,160 How long did Aaron stay there with you? 705 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,600 Oh, just. A couple of days and then, you 706 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,360 know, he'd go off and then he'd come back. 707 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,880 And then I wound up having to just told me he couldn't come 708 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:16,480 back 'cause he was on that too. Then at the time, they'd do it 709 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,600 and that. AP That says you, you, you've 710 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,520 heard that Shannon was using drugs, too. 711 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,240 I mean, I don't know for four or five, but that's what I heard. 712 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,440 And it I'll just say this, if you ever partied with them, if 713 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,760 you knew they were doing drugs or witnessed it, just just tell 714 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,760 us that. I don't know. 715 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:35,360 We're not. No, I don't. 716 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,680 I don't know. Like I said, there's and you all 717 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,120 know, you got people that do drugs, you got people that drink 718 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,360 and you don't do drugs and you don't, you know, do I drink? 719 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,880 But no, I never partied with him and I never partied with Don in 720 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,160 his life. Now, did you know Aaron at all 721 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,720 before? So you'd never met him, ever 722 00:40:55,720 --> 00:41:00,880 talked to him before either? Did he ever confide in you 723 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,480 anything about the case or anything about Shane? 724 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:06,960 And he couldn't clear his sister. 725 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,040 Those words will always, you know, I can't do it as the way 726 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,400 he said it, I can't clear my sister. 727 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,440 So he was suspicious of, of shame. 728 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,240 Did he ever give you any, any real factual information that 729 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,360 would be beneficial to the case? No, I like I said, I'm hearing 730 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,720 my own free will. If I had any information, yeah, 731 00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,120 I'd give it to you. Would that be the same thing if 732 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,520 something were to happen? To my daughter. 733 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:42,880 My God, yeah. I don't know how she does it. 734 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,840 I mean, if she's innocent, God bless her soul, I don't know how 735 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,600 she does because I just thinking about it, what would I do if my 736 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,440 daughter came up missing and she's my world? 737 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,320 That's all I've got. My old lady can go to hell, but 738 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,760 my kid that's no. Yeah, I. 739 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,400 Agree because I became a Midwest City. 740 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:08,720 It's hard to imagine. We've talked a lot about kind of 741 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,520 the background. I, I want to kind of talk to you 742 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,680 about some new information developed in this case, OK? 743 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,080 As you know, Detective Miller got some buckle swabs from you a 744 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,600 couple months back or whenever it was, there was a reason for 745 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:30,360 that, OK? And we collected DNA samples 746 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,880 from lots of people, but we've submitted, resubmitted some 747 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,640 evidence from the case and got Adna kit. 748 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,960 OK. The reason those buckle swabs 749 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,160 were even collected was we were trying to find the person 750 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:51,680 responsible, OK? We we talked about had you ever 751 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,000 been in the backyard? Have you ever been in the house? 752 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,520 All those things. And you said you hadn't. 753 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,240 Not while they were there, no. OK. 754 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,000 Well, I don't. I don't believe you, Tony. 755 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,000 I don't think you're telling the whole truth, OK? 756 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,600 Your DNA is in the backyard. The morning that she was 757 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,000 discovered missing, OK? And on her window. 758 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,760 And on the panties she'd been wearing the night before that 759 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:27,120 were recovered in the backyard. No, no, not me, because I was 760 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:27,760 not. No. 761 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,280 Yeah, that. That's the truth. 762 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,560 I find it far fast. But no, because I I don't know. 763 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,320 I didn't know. Maybe you didn't know him, 764 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,480 honey, but we. And I didn't have no business 765 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,920 over there at all. That maybe also what we need to 766 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,320 talk about is what you were doing in that backyard that 767 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,000 night and what happened we need to get to the truth of. 768 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,280 I have no idea what you're talking about. 769 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,880 Were you there trying to help Kirsten? 770 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,360 No, like I said, I didn't know anything about them people at 771 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:05,960 all. Nothing. 772 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,960 Nothing. Never met them, never said I buy 773 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,800 nothing. Well, here's the here's our. 774 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,040 Problem with that is how did your DNA get there then? 775 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,040 Don't know. I mean, is it, is this something 776 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,840 that's gone on? Tell me that, is this one of 777 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:36,720 those things from 17 years ago? The split second decision has 778 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,240 haunted you for 17 years. I don't know what's on 779 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,320 something. Are you there to? 780 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,000 Help her? No, like I said, I don't. 781 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,000 I had nothing to do with any people. 782 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:49,360 Nothing. I didn't know him at all. 783 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,400 OK, so how did? Your DNAI have no idea there. 784 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,840 I have no idea. Tell me your blood is on her 785 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,560 window. Your blood is on Kirsten's 786 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,240 panties. I don't see how that could 787 00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:07,360 happen. Well, it happens when you're 788 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,840 injured in some way and your blood gets transferred to her 789 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,320 window in those panties and it gets left behind. 790 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,600 I think you were there to help. No. 791 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,640 Or was it there period? How? 792 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,280 Did your blood get there? I have no idea. 793 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,520 Tell me you were there. This this is scientific 794 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,560 evidence. It's not a debate, it's not 795 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,440 anything that can be. Argued and. 796 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,280 And here's the point where I really feel you're a good guy. 797 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,080 I mean, you've worked 29 years at a hard job. 798 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,040 You came up rough like I did. Came up poor. 799 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,080 Yeah, but then. He saw the 4th. 800 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,840 I had nothing to do with any of this but. 801 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,480 Here's the thing. I don't think you're that was 802 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,640 your intention. You're going to have to explain 803 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,120 this. You were there. 804 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:03,720 Now I do it if you were there, if you were there because you 805 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:08,120 heard her yelling for help from your backyard and you go over 806 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080 there to see because you knew that her mother was a meth head 807 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,240 and that she is probably home alone. 808 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,080 And you went over there to help. And you went to the backyard to 809 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,800 avoid the conflict with the mother. 810 00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:21,760 And you was just going to take care of this little girl because 811 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:27,000 just like you growing up, you didn't want her being treated 812 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,960 that way. That is, that's how 813 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,360 understandable things become. Yeah, I can understand that, but 814 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,800 I don't I don't understand maybe my. 815 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,600 DNA maybe? Well, how exactly? 816 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,200 How was your blood? I have no idea. 817 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,640 Well. I wasn't there at all. 818 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:50,240 We we weren't there either. All we have is this the evidence 819 00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:52,240 that was collected. I didn't. 820 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:53,200 Collect it. It was. 821 00:46:53,400 --> 00:47:01,280 Collected 17 years ago, Tony, But it's there and we have to 822 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,880 deal with this. And you're saying you were never 823 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,400 there? No, there's no reason it should 824 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,760 be there. No, it's not helping your cause. 825 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,960 What's going to help your cause is to explain to us how it's 826 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,760 there. I because they don't have a 827 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:25,320 clue. Because the fact it's there is 828 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:30,960 the gorilla in the room. Now there is a reasonable 829 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,600 explanation As for why you were there and you were there to help 830 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,440 Kirsten. No. 831 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,520 You were there for, you had a relationship with Shannon. 832 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,280 No, never knew her. You were there, the peeping Tom 833 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:50,080 or something of this nature? No, then those are explainable 834 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:51,520 to God. I understand. 835 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,920 That, but I I won't. Never there, never there, never 836 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,520 there. Can't give us any reason. 837 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,160 Why your blood would be there? No. 838 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,160 Tony, the worst thing you can do for yourself right now in this 839 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,360 position is lie and not be. Truthful. 840 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,480 I'm being truthful dude. I don't know why I don't. 841 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,560 I can't explain that why that y'all are finding this. 842 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,360 Well, your blood is in that backyard. 843 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,120 The wing that she's discovered missing. 844 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:20,560 OK, this is your chance, Tony. I understand. 845 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,640 That explain explain what happened. 846 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,040 Maybe you didn't mean. You know, for. 847 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,440 Whatever. Has something happened? 848 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,400 There. Or you were there? 849 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,880 You were there. Was you in that depression? 850 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,520 Was that a period when you were going through a depression and 851 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,440 drinking and getting depressed and you don't remember until 852 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:41,720 later? Whatever sudden. 853 00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:43,840 Occurred. I don't even think I was 854 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,560 drinking that night, to tell you the truth. 855 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,040 I might have been, but I don't think so. 856 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,880 And I was in bed and I started, sure, I don't football just 857 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,640 suddenly deal. Where you got drunk the night 858 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,880 before and and actually went through with some urges you had. 859 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,680 You know, whether you're attracted to little girls or 860 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,760 whatever you're I've never been attracted. 861 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:11,200 To little girls 4 little boys. Well, once again, how is your 862 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,800 blood there? I don't know, do you? 863 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,240 Not. Do you not believe me when I 864 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:19,040 tell you that we have your DNA? I don't. 865 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,440 You don't believe me, OK, And I I I can show you the. 866 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:27,360 I'm sure you're going to just be in touch with that, but I don't, 867 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,560 I don't know how that could have happened. 868 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,400 Well, I love it there. There's more to this story, 869 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,200 Tony, and that's what we're hoping to get from you today. 870 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,000 And this is your opportunity to be truthful and to take 871 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,800 responsibility for whatever. Happened. 872 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,400 If I was responsible, that'd be different. 873 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,080 OK. Well, with that said, were you 874 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,920 there and somebody else was there and actually took her and 875 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,760 maybe you left your neighbor? There, I'm not into middle girls 876 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,400 and I'm not a window peeper. OK, well, is there some other 877 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,120 explanation for why you were in that backyard that night? 878 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:10,600 I wasn't in that backyard. I don't know how my blood could 879 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,440 have been there or what. I know I went to bed. 880 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,400 I know when the dog woke me up I didn't go out my back door. 881 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,160 I let dog in and I went back to bed. 882 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:33,560 Well, Tony, I I don't know how to impress upon you anymore 883 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,840 than. The. 884 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:44,080 Physical evidence there, Tony, We really do. 885 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,480 And we have to get to a point where we can explain that. 886 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,360 I understand that, you know. Help me do. 887 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,800 That I wish I could. I don't know. 888 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,280 I don't know what you want to talk about. 889 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:09,480 I don't sleepwalk. Tony, I think that you've been 890 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,760 living with this a long time. And I. 891 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,400 Think that's what? With what happened. 892 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,320 And I think that it's, it's one of those things, Tony, where 893 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:30,360 you're scared and but I think it's, there's some verses that 894 00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,720 says, you know, at some point everything is known. 895 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:39,440 And I truly believe that. And one of these days that 896 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,200 you're going to have to come and realize that. 897 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:49,720 And I don't I think that your best bet is simply tell the 898 00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:52,480 truth. I've been telling the truth. 899 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:59,480 Well, unfortunately, what you're telling me doesn't align with 900 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,440 any of the physical evidence that we have. 901 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:08,160 And unless there's a huge conspiracy to the FBI and the 902 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:15,680 OSBI and our officers from 17 years ago to frame you, we have 903 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:21,280 to explain this. And I really think you're, you 904 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,680 need to talk about it because I think that's the best thing for 905 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,720 you to do is simply tell us the truth. 906 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,200 I think you're going to feel better about it. 907 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,080 You're going to have a weight lifted off your shoulders. 908 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,800 I have no idea what you're talking about. 909 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:43,000 OK, you got somebody's blood, but I not mine. 910 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:49,040 I was not there, OK? Not that night, not the night 911 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:54,840 before, not the night after. Did someone talk to you into 912 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,600 doing something? Going with them. 913 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:03,720 No, I wouldn't do that. So how did? 914 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:06,920 How do we explain your? Blood. 915 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:20,680 I have no idea. Well, the blood's. 916 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,120 Going to have to be explained to me. 917 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,080 It's going to have to be, yeah. I mean, I'm trying to go in my 918 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:31,480 head. I don't how anything or but I 919 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,040 whenever she was living there, I didn't go there. 920 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:43,040 I was there when William was there, but and even then I don't 921 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,400 don't see how to cut myself on the window. 922 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,800 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. 923 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,960 I wasn't. There, brother, I don't know 924 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,680 either. OK, well, I'm telling. 925 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,080 You that the physical evidence is going to have to be 926 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:12,360 explained. I think that you made a mistake 927 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,520 and I think you've lived through this a long time and I believe 928 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,320 that your depression issues and things and the way you were 929 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:27,680 raised and the abuse that you took as a child, I never had 930 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,000 that depressed and has something to do with it the other day. 931 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:39,640 This is our OSPI results. I, I kind of no disrespect, I 932 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,040 get the impression maybe you don't believe me. 933 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,840 So I want to just bring you the copy directly from OSDI and 934 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,160 we've highlighted it here for you, OK? 935 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:59,800 I just want to understand that this isn't, this isn't a bluff, 936 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:20,480 Tony. You see those odds, those odds. 937 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,200 I can just tell you that from my years of experience, I've never 938 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,760 seen at that level. Which means this is your DNA, 939 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:31,080 OK? This is your life, Tony. 940 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:41,640 There is. That's Kirsten's panties that 941 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,760 her mom identified that she had on that night. 942 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:49,280 And that's where your blood was found, as well as on her window 943 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:58,920 seal. So this isn't just A and and 944 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,120 just so you'll know, we also located some blood on the fence 945 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,760 picket and it's still out for testing, but I suspect that 946 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,120 there's a good chance. I guess that'll come back to 947 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,720 you. I can't. 948 00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:16,600 Explain that and that's. That's what I want to give you 949 00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,800 an opportunity to do is explain it because it's scientific 950 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,680 evidence. We know for a fact it's your 951 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,600 blood. And of course, Tony, I don't 952 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,800 have to tell you that when these panties are identified as as 953 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,360 Kirsten's, then mom says, yeah, she was wearing those the night 954 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,440 before. And the next morning at dawn, 955 00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,240 your blood is found in them at the back fence of the property. 956 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,360 I mean, if you're in my position as the detective, what does that 957 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,000 tell you? Look good for me. 958 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,640 You know, I just want to plead. With you to be. 959 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,080 Honest. I want to be honest. 960 00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:01,120 I want to be honest. I know. 961 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,240 You know, I mean, Tony, I think this has gone on for so many 962 00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:09,440 years and has been unsolved, as you all know, for for a long, 963 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,560 long time. And I'm sure you've told people 964 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,400 countless times, I had nothing to do with it. 965 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,920 I don't know anything about it, et cetera, et cetera. 966 00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,920 But this isn't the time to keep saying the same old routine 967 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,800 because this didn't go in the way. 968 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:28,880 You get what I'm saying? Yeah. 969 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,400 I mean, this is scientific, scientific evidence, Tony. 970 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,400 That's your DNA. That's your cells from your 971 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,160 body. Tell me. 972 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,200 I mean, tell me what happened. How did you get injured? 973 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,160 I'm trying to figure it out myself what what what all this 974 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,000 is about. I mean, you were you were in in 975 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,760 some injured for your blood to be on her window and for your 976 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:57,520 blood to be in our panels. My, what I want to know from 977 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,640 you, was there some kind of a dispute between you and cursed? 978 00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,440 I had no dealings with those people, didn't know nothing 979 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,040 about them. I believe that. 980 00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:11,000 I believe that, but I also believe that this is your DNA on 981 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,880 her window seal and your DNA on her panties in the backyard. 982 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,360 I don't doubt that you didn't know them, that that doesn't 983 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,960 take this away. This isn't going anywhere and 984 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,120 we've got to get to the truth of the matter. 985 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,920 I mean, for you to sit here and say I've never been in that 986 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,160 backyard and I wasn't there, it's a lie, Tony. 987 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,680 That's not the truth. It's it's not the truth. 988 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:45,400 And I got to believe, if I can speak frankly, you seem like a 989 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:49,800 good guy and I, I know if I've made a mistake like that and we 990 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,560 all make mistakes, we're all sinners. 991 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,840 But I got to believe this has been bugging you for your entire 992 00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:02,120 life since it happened. If if it doesn't, then you're a 993 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,360 cold blooded killer. Tony. 994 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,200 Is that what you're telling me? I ain't never killed nobody. 995 00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:12,840 OK, so you're telling me what happened that morning or that 996 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,400 night hadn't been bothering you all these? 997 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,320 Years. That's not me. 998 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,920 I don't was that. Was that the alcohol or were you 999 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,840 experimenting with? Something else I don't do drugs 1000 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,720 and I don't know. I don't know. 1001 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,680 I still trying to tell them in my mind. 1002 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,920 What blood? My blood. 1003 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,720 Yeah. I was never around there, didn't 1004 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,640 know their people, didn't have no dealings with their people, 1005 00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,280 didn't care about. Some people tell me this, this 1006 00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,800 is I always tell you, OK, I you can sit here and say that same 1007 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:50,880 crash over and. Over. 1008 00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,280 You and I both know that's not the truth, no. 1009 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,200 It's the truth. I have to come out. 1010 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,000 I don't understand. This, the truth is what needs to 1011 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,880 come out, and you're the only person that can do that. 1012 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,920 You're the only person. That can bring Kirsten back and 1013 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,240 let her family have a proper burial for her. 1014 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:12,640 You're the person that can help do that. 1015 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,760 You made a mistake, Tony, and you made a huge mistake. 1016 01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,520 Do which right now, take responsibility for what happened 1017 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,800 and help us get Kirsten. Back, I can't help you. 1018 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,120 I don't know, I don't understand. 1019 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,080 You said that's. Not me. 1020 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,600 And when and when somebody says that to me, what it says is just 1021 01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,400 left. I live in my right mind. 1022 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,560 I was under the influence. What in the influence? 1023 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,880 Like I said, if I had beer, I'm going to have two. 1024 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,480 I went to bed. I always go to bed. 1025 01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:55,680 I'm at 10:00 bedtime guy. The only reason here why I've 1026 01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,600 been going to sleep is because I have to have a treatment. 1027 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,280 I wake up every 2 1/2 hours, 3 hours, take treatment, go back 1028 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,280 to sleep. I have nothing bothering me 1029 01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,680 rather than breathing problems. So your conscience hasn't been 1030 01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,000 bothering you for all these years? 1031 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,040 You know, let me ask you this. Your wife told us that every 1032 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:22,240 year on Kirsten's anniversary that you're upset about it, that 1033 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,600 you go through a phase of being depressed and upset about it. 1034 01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,080 And the reason that is it's on the news and. 1035 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:31,400 Yeah. How do you feel about it? 1036 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:32,840 Well, yeah, I'm going to be upset. 1037 01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,520 I mean, it's a missing child. But. 1038 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,400 But I mean, as far as me. Oh, what? 1039 01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,000 What day is this? No. 1040 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,400 It's not just a missing child, Tony. 1041 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,480 It's a missing child with your blood on her Lindo cell and your 1042 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,960 blood on her pants. So should that affect you? 1043 01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,120 Absolutely. And that tells me you're human. 1044 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,160 That tells me that you have a heart and you have a conscience, 1045 01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,560 but you're not showing it, sitting here and denying that 1046 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,280 you've never been in there. I don't know anything about it. 1047 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,680 That wasn't me. That's not the truth, Tony. 1048 01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:11,360 This is the time. I'm going to be saying that, but 1049 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:19,880 I I don't. You need to think about that 1050 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,080 because I'm just telling you when all this gets presented to 1051 01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,160 the judge and jury. I understand. 1052 01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,000 Do you think anybody's going to believe in? 1053 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,040 Their blood. Don't believe me? 1054 01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,320 Nobody's. Going to believe you because 1055 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:42,700 it's not the truth Tony. If you want to carry it to your 1056 01:02:42,700 --> 01:02:48,140 grave and not do what's right, that's on you that you need to 1057 01:02:48,140 --> 01:02:51,860 think about what you're doing because right now these will say 1058 01:02:51,860 --> 01:02:58,860 every right and I was with them blood or meat because I was not 1059 01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:01,840 there. And I'm in that night. 1060 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:14,880 I was in my same boat. Yeah, I don't want to spend. 1061 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:30,480 It well, it's pretty clear. You know how big sexy it is. 1062 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:38,240 That's that's that's true. Yeah, it's too big. 1063 01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,240 I mean, that's you can line people up from planet Earth all 1064 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:48,400 the way to the moon. You Remember Me, don't you? 1065 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:55,600 I mean, we, I've been working on this case for two years here. 1066 01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,200 Look at me real quick. I've been working on this for 1067 01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:03,560 two years. I've got a little girl about her 1068 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,200 age. She's age at the time. 1069 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,600 And this case is all I think this case has taken over me and 1070 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,240 it it's all I think about, you know, and I told you earlier on, 1071 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,240 you know, all the cases I work is crimes against children 1072 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,680 cases. So my whole life, I go home, I 1073 01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:24,600 have kids, I kind of work, I deal with kids, you know, and 1074 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,840 you seem like, like, like you said in our past, you know, 1075 01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,960 conversations we've had all you do is you care about kids, you 1076 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,560 take care of the neighborhood kids. 1077 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:36,400 And you got a hard disciplination. 1078 01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,920 Yeah. And that that's what I, we're 1079 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,160 trying to figure out, Tony, is how is your, your blood, your 1080 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,520 DNA, get on it. And you were there when I, when 1081 01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,760 I took your sample from you, right? 1082 01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:56,480 We had an unknown male profile DNA on her panties and on her 1083 01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:07,480 window sill. I mean it don't make no sense to 1084 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,840 me. All I'm concerned about is where 1085 01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,240 is she at? Tony. 1086 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:16,400 I'm not sure where is she at. Help me find her. 1087 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,600 I mean we got pictures of window sills. 1088 01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:26,200 And of. The window sill that day, you 1089 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,240 know, we go right down the line with all these pictures. 1090 01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:33,880 You know, you say, oh, I mean everything. 1091 01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,960 Of course, today it's a totally different ball game. 1092 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,640 There'll be 500 pictures of a window sill and it it's all 1093 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,880 there. I mean, to figure out the print. 1094 01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:47,480 Yeah, those are kids prints there. 1095 01:05:58,790 --> 01:06:02,790 I was not there the day before that day. 1096 01:06:03,110 --> 01:06:08,800 Next day, I know. Have you talked with the FBI 1097 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,520 since the last time you and I spoke? 1098 01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:14,760 No. OK. 1099 01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,440 What all have you done for that? Have you taken a polygraph? 1100 01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,920 Have you been to their office? Tell me the time I was talked to 1101 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:25,360 the FBI was when they were anywhere. 1102 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,240 Else. OK, but you've never taken a 1103 01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:29,600 polygraph anything like that, didn't we? 1104 01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:31,920 Didn't we ask you about a polygraph when I spoke with you 1105 01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,160 last? I don't think we did. 1106 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:39,120 What that Trisky did? OK, that's right. 1107 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:47,840 You did take a polygraph of that but but. 1108 01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,040 We need to figure this out. Yes, you do. 1109 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,920 But you're my key. You're the one that can help me, 1110 01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:04,760 Tony. I want you to help me if I. 1111 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,200 Could I? Would because it's making me 1112 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:07,400 look. What about? 1113 01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:12,840 Well, yeah. Well, I'm not going to hear. 1114 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,400 I'm not, I'm not going to be mean or anything, but I, I need 1115 01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:18,200 the truth. I need I. 1116 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,200 Need the truth? Do I need to find her? 1117 01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:23,480 I need to find Kirsten. Help me find her. 1118 01:07:32,980 --> 01:07:33,580 OK. Help you. 1119 01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:35,460 Was there somebody else involved? 1120 01:07:35,740 --> 01:07:37,780 I. Can't help you on that either. 1121 01:07:38,060 --> 01:07:44,000 I no I didn't help anybody or help myself take this drill. 1122 01:07:57,620 --> 01:08:01,420 Now, how do you explain? The ball I don't and I can't. 1123 01:08:02,380 --> 01:08:04,740 You got to let me see your arm. You have a scar in your arm. 1124 01:08:04,740 --> 01:08:08,260 What happened there? I was picking up the toilet bowl 1125 01:08:08,260 --> 01:08:12,700 and it cracked. What was that last year? 1126 01:08:14,460 --> 01:08:15,900 Hey, hey. I'm the Major. 1127 01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:20,200 I'm Major David House. I'm I'm, I'm pretty much these 1128 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,680 guys, boss, the guys that have been out there kind of talking 1129 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:29,000 to me about the interview. What do you say? 1130 01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:31,319 Let's let's take a break for just a minute. 1131 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,040 I don't want you getting upset at us. 1132 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,600 We really are trying to get to the truth, but I don't want you 1133 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:41,760 getting upset with us. Take a drink of water. 1134 01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:46,920 We'll just relax for a minute, OK, And we'll just take a deep 1135 01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,840 breath. All right, I, I know. 1136 01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:54,800 I said smoke a cigarette. Yeah. 1137 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:56,040 Come on. Come on out with us. 1138 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:57,760 You're gonna have to go with us, though, OK? 1139 01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:59,120 Yes, I. Understand. 1140 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:05,880 I want to make sure we don't have any juveniles out here. 1141 01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:07,520 Hold on a second. Yeah, hold on a second. 1142 01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:26,960 We got cheap and all this stuff right here. 1143 01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,680 I I normally don't do it. I'll let you smoke in here. 1144 01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:42,200 I normally don't do that. OK, Yeah, there's some kids 1145 01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,439 around. You'll be right. 1146 01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:52,439 Now go ahead man, you're fine. Normally don't let people do 1147 01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,080 this. Probably against no other law 1148 01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,920 anymore. Well, I know you're stressed, so 1149 01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,520 we're going to allow it. I'll smoke three pipes a day. 1150 01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:05,800 Do you have since I was 12? I can't. 1151 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:14,280 I can't explain this. And the only thing that I'm 1152 01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,080 thinking right now is, yeah, I'm being set up because we want to 1153 01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:21,040 close this case. That's young things coming in my 1154 01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:25,120 head right now. Seriously. 1155 01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:31,840 OK, Well, I understand what you're saying. 1156 01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:36,880 I'm going to be honest with you. When this first stuff with the 1157 01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:42,440 stuff first came out, the DNA, I want to understand how it works 1158 01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:47,520 because not everybody does this. So it wouldn't be uncommon for 1159 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,160 you not to know the. Real. 1160 01:10:50,440 --> 01:10:55,800 Person that doesn't do police work doesn't know the DNA that 1161 01:10:55,800 --> 01:11:01,000 we got off of these pins that was taken all the way back when 1162 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:05,880 it happened, OK? And it was put into a container 1163 01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,640 where we can keep it indefinitely, all right? 1164 01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:14,240 It's been there ever since the FBI ticket when they were 1165 01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,640 helping us. It was there, OK? 1166 01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:21,560 We had what was called an unknown DNA sample. 1167 01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:27,760 We knew that it was human DNA. We can tell that asterisk. 1168 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,960 Oh, we have to. We knew human DNA. 1169 01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,560 OK, And we knew it was human DNA from the male. 1170 01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:40,880 We can know that. What we don't know when we got 1171 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,800 it back then, we didn't know the name attached to it. 1172 01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,200 We didn't know whose DNA that was. 1173 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:53,160 OK, When the FBI and Detective Miller went out and got those 1174 01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,960 swabs, OK, got them. They got them from a bunch of 1175 01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,160 people. All right? 1176 01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:03,680 You being one of them. Then it was tested against the 1177 01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,800 sample that was taken off the windowsill and off of the 1178 01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,640 panties, which by the way, I don't know if they told you this 1179 01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:17,400 or not, but also has Kirsten's DNA on it because little kids, 1180 01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:21,160 they get their little pee pee in their pants and skid marks. 1181 01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:26,480 So her DN as on it, your DN as on it, and it's also on the 1182 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:30,720 window seal. That was all done way back when 1183 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:36,120 this all happened. It's just now that the DNA 1184 01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,280 results have come back and I don't know if they told you 1185 01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,480 this. You seem like an intelligent 1186 01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:46,080 man, so to help you comprehend when we're talking about when we 1187 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:52,200 say we allow this to be a fact, remember sextillion, what this 1188 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:58,760 is saying if you take a one and you put 21 zeros behind it. 1189 01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,160 Yeah. It's, it's, it's yours. 1190 01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:09,320 Any anybody in the world, any scientist is going to say that 1191 01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:11,120 that is your. Blood. 1192 01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:18,280 Now, obviously when we have a case like this, we're not going 1193 01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,240 to Mr. Palmer, We're not going to lay out everything that we 1194 01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,560 know and everything we have. And that's just not the way it 1195 01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,080 works. It'd be counterproductive. 1196 01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,720 We're not going to do it. There's more than this, but 1197 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,240 we're going to try to get you to digest, try to digest one thing 1198 01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:41,480 at a time. Now, having said that, do we 1199 01:13:41,480 --> 01:13:45,880 know all the circumstances surrounding what happened that 1200 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:52,200 night? We don't only only God, the 1201 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,840 person who did it, and Kirsten probably know that, but I'm 1202 01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:00,520 going to tell you this. We do know that Kirsten was 1203 01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:04,760 wearing those that night. We do know that your blood's on 1204 01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:08,840 there and her DNA is on there. And that is just an absolute 1205 01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:10,720 fact. Yeah, I understand that. 1206 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:17,520 And, and I, I pleaded, you know, just listening and talking to 1207 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:22,120 you, you know, 1718 years now has passed. 1208 01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:29,240 I'm going on my 25th year here. I worked every case you could 1209 01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:32,840 probably imagine. So is Detective Miller, like he 1210 01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:38,760 was telling you, we're not brilliant men by any stretch of 1211 01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:43,960 imagination, but when it comes to this stuff, and we're, we're 1212 01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,480 pretty damn smart. And this is what it boils down 1213 01:14:47,480 --> 01:14:52,080 to. And this much time can pass and 1214 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,280 something horrible happens in your life that you don't want to 1215 01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,960 remember. You can put it in a little box 1216 01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:01,720 and put it out here and try to keep it away from you. 1217 01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:08,280 And it it happens. I have to put horrible things 1218 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,720 that happen. I can put it in a little box out 1219 01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:15,520 here and just hope that it goes away and that pray that it 1220 01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:20,120 doesn't come out because I've seen some some terrible things 1221 01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:22,600 I. Can imagine and. 1222 01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:26,120 Here's what I think, and you know what I think may not matter 1223 01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:31,440 to you, but it's from the heart. This is what I think. 1224 01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,640 I think that you're not an evil person. 1225 01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:36,280 I don't think you're an evil person. 1226 01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:39,360 I've heard about your work history. 1227 01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,760 You know, I know all that stuff. I know you're a dependable 1228 01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:47,840 person, a hard working man. I think on this one night, this 1229 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:53,360 one time, for whatever reason, with some demon inside you, you 1230 01:15:53,360 --> 01:16:00,520 made a mistake with the fact is, the fact is there here. 1231 01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,800 Here's what here's what how we look at it. 1232 01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:08,360 You know I'm about to retire. You know I I know he told you 1233 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:12,600 he's got a young daughter. We want, we want to know where 1234 01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,280 this baby's at. We want to know where she's at 1235 01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:19,000 or. Her No, I can't help you. 1236 01:16:29,190 --> 01:16:33,150 I don't understand any of this. Can I ask you something? 1237 01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:36,350 Sir. Why did why did you tell your 1238 01:16:36,350 --> 01:16:40,830 wife that, that the FBI had given you a polygraph and you 1239 01:16:40,830 --> 01:16:44,280 passed? She just told us that he said 1240 01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:48,520 that. No, I told her that y'all had 1241 01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:52,320 gave me a polygons, but it's excuse me for something 1242 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,120 altogether different for the trustee deal. 1243 01:16:55,440 --> 01:17:02,000 I got 2 polygons that day. OK, so you think she just 1244 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,840 misunderstood? Probably. 1245 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,360 Yeah. I've told her the FBI was in my 1246 01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:12,400 house. They shut my house down. 1247 01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,760 Garage shed. Hold up. 1248 01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:27,200 Well, we're we're and the only time. 1249 01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,600 This comes up is when she asked about it and they choose me like 1250 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,480 the anniversary because there's newspaper people or television 1251 01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:36,760 people are knocking on the door and you still live here. 1252 01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,320 Do you know, blah, blah, blah. And that's it. 1253 01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,480 The law still lives around here, that's you live there longest 1254 01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:45,680 right of. Course I know. 1255 01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:48,160 There's no one that still lives there. 1256 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,440 That's there back when you were there. 1257 01:18:01,480 --> 01:18:05,080 Well, Tony, after we need your help. 1258 01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:12,280 You having that one? We do must move 3 packs a day 1259 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:20,960 more fortunately for me, I, I, I if I could help you, I would 1260 01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,480 help you. Well, I don't like sitting in 1261 01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:27,560 this situation. I don't, I don't like there's 1262 01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:29,600 no, there's no look good for me at all. 1263 01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,840 And I've, I've done research on, you know, what happened at when 1264 01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,520 he was in Walters and stuff like that. 1265 01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,400 And I've listened to. Part of the interview. 1266 01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:53,240 Well, here this morning and is there a chance that maybe you 1267 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,280 blacked out and did it that you went over there and did 1268 01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:58,360 something you said, you said something about you don't think 1269 01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:04,160 you sleepwalk. No, I've just built in some 1270 01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:09,160 areas. OK, I mean, that's going to be a 1271 01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:18,200 sarcastic. Well, take a look at a good 1272 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:22,520 point. I mean, from what we've read 1273 01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,840 from the report that happened, Aaron Walters, that was a pretty 1274 01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:33,000 horrific deal that happened and it kind of shows that it's 1275 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:36,360 somebody that can lose it or whatever. 1276 01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:40,080 Kid, that was drugs and I still pay for that. 1277 01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:52,960 That'll never go away. Well, what it what it comes into 1278 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,400 is this, you know, we've had a lot of people in this room and 1279 01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:00,120 interviewed a lot of people about stuff similar to this, 1280 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,800 unfortunately. And there's two kinds of people 1281 01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,200 we deal with. There's the people that when we 1282 01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:10,520 prevent present the evidence that we got and they know 1283 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:17,360 they've been found out and they stand up and take. 1284 01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,360 Some type of responsibility and move on. 1285 01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:28,400 Or they deny it. And to me, that's the folks that 1286 01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,960 are really evil. And I just didn't get the 1287 01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,520 feeling that that was you. But I guess I could be wrong. 1288 01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:37,120 It wouldn't be the first. Time. 1289 01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:41,640 I don't, I can't. I can't explain it. 1290 01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:53,640 And I'm still sitting here. Thank you, April Fool. 1291 01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,320 Y'all come up with April Fool? That's. 1292 01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:59,680 Yeah, well, that's not this serious. 1293 01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,360 You know, there's some, there's some April Fool. 1294 01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:06,200 Where, where, where do you think if if someone was to, if 1295 01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:11,960 someone, the person that did do this, where would they take her 1296 01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:16,920 and dump her at if they would? Couldn't do you. 1297 01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,800 I mean, I watch all the cop shows and stuff like that or 1298 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:27,000 what I do watch and there's there's no telling so. 1299 01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:30,200 You, you bring up. Cop shows so I'm sure my. 1300 01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:31,560 Wife. Likes cop shows? 1301 01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:35,840 Yeah, you've watched a lot of CFI and stuff like that. 1302 01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:41,360 So, you know, and most of the this classes and all this 1303 01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,480 research and stuff I've done with, you know, missing children 1304 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,680 where they're usually located at they're located, you know, or 1305 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,960 the suspect lives 2 doors down, 3 Doors Down there in the same 1306 01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:58,960 neighborhood, you know, So I mean, you hit the profile, you 1307 01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:03,040 know, your past history shows that, you know, but. 1308 01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:05,280 That's a little struck against me, no? 1309 01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:07,640 But like I said, people change Tony. 1310 01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:12,280 People change. You talk about your home life, 1311 01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:14,880 how you grew up. I grew up with a single mom that 1312 01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:20,000 raised 9 kids by herself, and I'm about the only one that I'm 1313 01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:22,800 about the only one out of my family that that's graduated 1314 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,160 school that has a successful job. 1315 01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,280 All right, you know, people tell me you can't do that. 1316 01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:36,280 You're a piece of crap. And I showed them that it's not 1317 01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:38,600 about anything like that. I was. 1318 01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:43,600 Not sexually. Molested or abused, I was hated. 1319 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:48,040 But I found good in this. You know, he taught me some shit 1320 01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,440 and that's helped me, you know, go through my life. 1321 01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,800 I know some stuff. I know carpentry, I know 1322 01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,280 mechanics, you know I accustomed. 1323 01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:03,440 To to this. Day because he hated me but Jack 1324 01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:07,520 of all trades that didn't that didn't turn me into a monster. 1325 01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:12,640 I hate it and. I don't think you're a monster. 1326 01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:18,240 I think this just one time something happened and it went a 1327 01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:21,760 little too far and something had that, you know actually. 1328 01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:25,760 I'm in shock is what I am like I said I am still thinking y'all 1329 01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:31,320 going to sleep Yeah but this is just a a joke or not a joke but 1330 01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:34,840 trying to get me to say something or. 1331 01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:38,200 I'm not, I'm not hearing a lot. I'm not lying to you about 1332 01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:41,160 anything. Like I told you from the get go, 1333 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,280 you know, my job was to investigate this case and to go 1334 01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:48,480 out and I guarantee that there were probably 30-40 people that 1335 01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:51,360 I went out and I got swabs from just like you doing that today. 1336 01:24:00,430 --> 01:24:04,110 No, it's shocked. I don't know what to say. 1337 01:24:12,430 --> 01:24:16,070 Well, you're coming here. The last person. 1338 01:24:16,230 --> 01:24:20,280 Your last person, if I've heard you're the last person that's 1339 01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:24,720 that's your that's your opinion. You're you're the absolute last 1340 01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:37,040 person that touched person that with other things that we have 1341 01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:38,880 and that we know and that we've learned. 1342 01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:45,320 I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. 1343 01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:52,440 This guy especially has been pushing to allow him to be able 1344 01:24:52,440 --> 01:24:55,960 to talk to you and, and try to make some sense about it and 1345 01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:58,840 give you an opportunity to tell the truth. 1346 01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,880 I was, heck, I was kind of against it, to be honest with 1347 01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:07,240 you, because you don't get that kind of scientific evidence 1348 01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:10,520 every day. That is absolutely the most 1349 01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:13,920 astronomical thing that you could imagine. 1350 01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:18,040 It's about like every grain of sand on the whole planet Earth 1351 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,440 and or the odds that it's not you that were the last person 1352 01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:25,480 that touched her panties. That was the last person that 1353 01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:29,560 went through that window. The the odds are they're 1354 01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:40,400 incomprehendible. So is that is that the way it's 1355 01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:41,880 going to be coming? Is it going to be? 1356 01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,840 Is it going to be a little where to till the day you die? 1357 01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,600 You're going to. They're telling my is this? 1358 01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:56,840 Yeah. Well, I can tell you. 1359 01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:58,800 I can tell you this. Well, that's fair enough. 1360 01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,880 I'm not going to argue with you or get into a battle with you. 1361 01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:08,680 I can tell you this. Everything that we were going to 1362 01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:10,960 do here today and everything that you were going to tell us 1363 01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:17,440 is going to go into a report. It can either be a report saying 1364 01:26:17,440 --> 01:26:23,720 that he manned up and had some remorse or it can be that it's 1365 01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:27,000 that evil person that we were afraid of and that's up to you. 1366 01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:30,640 That is total black ball is totally in your court, but it's 1367 01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:32,160 going to read one way or another. 1368 01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:37,440 And that's up to you because it goes from us to the District 1369 01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:41,640 Attorney and then to the court. So it can, it can read how you 1370 01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:47,120 want, but giving you this opportunity, that was this 1371 01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:51,160 gentleman's idea. And and I gave him that 1372 01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:54,840 opportunity and I'll be able to go home and sleep tight tonight 1373 01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,280 knowing that I gave you that shot. 1374 01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:02,160 And if you don't want to take that shot, then that's fine. 1375 01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:08,240 And I, I can't force you to, Tony, all, all we want is the 1376 01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:13,760 truth and all, all we want is to to finally be able to let a 1377 01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:19,600 mother bury her child. That's what we want properly. 1378 01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,480 We wanted to be able, we wanted to be able to bury your sterile 1379 01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:43,640 tongue. I know you always think I'm 1380 01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:45,880 guilty, but I know I'm not, so I don't. 1381 01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:47,800 I don't know what else to. Tell you I'm still. 1382 01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:51,560 In shock, I don't. I mean, you're in shock because 1383 01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:55,120 because it's been 17 years and you thought it was over. 1384 01:27:57,440 --> 01:28:03,400 That's why you're in shock. No, I'm shocked about it. 1385 01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:07,720 You got my blood. And how's that possible? 1386 01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,160 I, I can't tell you that, but I can tell you that it is 1387 01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:18,520 absolute. It is absolute. 1388 01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:27,720 There is no maybe, there is no, there's a possibility. 1389 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:40,520 It is absolutely 100%. Hey, do you want to? 1390 01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:43,120 Take a break and give them. Some time to think about what we 1391 01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:45,960 talked about. Do you have any more? 1392 01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:49,960 Do you have any more to smoke? Not yet. 1393 01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,400 Go ahead, go ahead and smoke for a minute. 1394 01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:59,200 Let us go out here and talk. Once you get your head together, 1395 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:04,280 we'll give you more opportunity to to think about what I just 1396 01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:30,120 said, OK? None. 1397 01:30:04,500 --> 01:34:18,000 None. All right, I'll ask you again. 1398 01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:26,440 Where's she at? OK, I want you to understand 1399 01:34:26,440 --> 01:34:29,080 too, and you probably already know this. 1400 01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:32,080 You're not leaving this room. Down I understand that. 1401 01:34:33,440 --> 01:34:37,600 And you understand that it's probably going to be quite a 1402 01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,400 while that you're going to spend in jail. 1403 01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:43,920 Just because we don't have a body doesn't mean that we're not 1404 01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:45,120 going to charge you with anything. 1405 01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:47,480 I've got enough evidence against you. 1406 01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:53,400 No, go ahead. Tell me there's there's the next 1407 01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:57,400 one in that real family judge and it's for murder. 1408 01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:00,840 And judges don't sign up unless there's probable cause. 1409 01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:07,680 And to be fair to you, OK, to be fair to you, you're not going 1410 01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:10,080 anywhere. You're you're being charged with 1411 01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:11,960 murder. And here's the bill. 1412 01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:18,120 I want you to remember right now we're interviewing every one of 1413 01:35:18,120 --> 01:35:20,840 your family members. You can probably hear it in the 1414 01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:23,640 next stream. We're already at your house. 1415 01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:30,560 We will have backhoes, ground penetrating sonar, cadaver dogs, 1416 01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:35,680 the whole 9 yards. We was laughing about that 1417 01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:38,760 yesterday. What's so funny about that? 1418 01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:40,920 That. If y'all were to ever go in our 1419 01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:44,520 backyard, well, I got dogs and cats and that's everywhere. 1420 01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:47,120 That backyard I went to, heaven was nothing. 1421 01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:48,880 Nothing about that. It was watching something on 1422 01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:50,400 Tuesday. Like great barium. 1423 01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:55,240 Or animal show. Well, so we're not going to find 1424 01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:57,720 and and this is your opportunity because I mean. 1425 01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:00,560 You ain't going to find first and a half field in my backyard. 1426 01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:04,760 Or on your property, anywhere. Where do I find her? 1427 01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:10,000 I don't know. Did you black out and you took 1428 01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:12,760 her somewhere, Doctor? I didn't get her. 1429 01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:17,440 Who did well? What we're going to do is we're 1430 01:36:17,440 --> 01:36:22,400 just going to we're going to leave it with you're that person 1431 01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,880 that has no remorse. And that's the way the report's 1432 01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:28,680 going to read, because what I'm seeing from you is you could 1433 01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:31,560 careless if we ever find her and. 1434 01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:32,920 You could. Careless. 1435 01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:36,960 Just just figure it out for me. Turn around for me. 1436 01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:48,000 The chance on your back. Relax. 1437 01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:54,880 And arrest for murder. Kidnap Kirsten Hatfield.