I run on nicotine and caffeine. We're we're the.
Same age and I tell you anymore if I'm I drink a lot of water.
I had some stomach issues and the doctor says drink water.
It really helps with the end of the indigestion real bad.
It's just chewing, but I won't give it up.
But if I can sleep through the night or get about four or five
hours without having to get up and pee.
Yeah, I know. I know exactly exactly what
you're talking about. You know what I that's, that's
me. When we fly we, we have family
out of state so we have to fly there.
The day before I leave, I start dehydrating myself.
I can't stand to get on a plane and have to try to pee and it
never fails. I don't know if it's the cabin
pressure or what. I can go pee 5 seconds before I
get on. As soon as he gets up and make
air, I got to go pee, you know, and everyone you're walking down
the hall. But I'll try to get people out
of your way. Especially when you got really,
really good. Yeah, so I've learned to just
dehydrate myself like crazy. Before and.
It never fails. It never fails.
It seems like I drink more that night.
Whenever I go to bed, I have to have something right there
because, yeah, I get up three or three times to do my my
nebulizer and then you have to have something to drink to wash
the yuckiness out. Blood down.
My grandson's got asthma real bad and he starts wheezing or he
just and we're fighting with the insurance company to get him one
of those breathing things so they can give him treatments at
home instead of having to go pay $1000 at the ER to give a
breathing treatment. The insurance company says, well
no, you got to have a prescription from a doctor to
get it. We're going.
You do? Although both my machines were
gave to me. Yeah, I didn't have to the
steroid. Stuff that you put in you have a
prescription. Though, right?
That's how that works. They're all sulfate and
something. OK, he's going to be nice to you
anyway. I know you said.
No, but I always thought you'll be drinking somebody and I'm
offering, making them have a little advantage over me.
Tony, they've met you before and I want to kind of I thank you
for coming down here to talk. To well, you know, as a state
employee, you know, it's something we have to do well, we
have to abide by all. But we appreciate.
Law enforcements and all that. And here's where we're kind of
bad. We're, we're still looking at
the Kirsten Hatfield thing and we're going back and we're
talking to a lot of people and I know over the years.
You weren't there the first time they got down, were you?
You know. Now, I was with Miller the the
last time I talked to you about the other deal.
You over 17 years, I know in my life I've changed a lot and so
we wanted to talk to you about if you can kind of tell me 17
years ago how your life was, how that neighborhood was, what was
going on in that neighborhood. I know I've talked, I've read
some of the reports that from the interviews before and how it
appears to me that you're, they call you Uncle Tony around there
because you care about the kids. You will.
Feed the kids Basically, when I moved there, lived there, there
was a bunch of older people that was like an I don't know, not
that no retirement place, but most of the people in that area
were old retirees And you know, I being I like doing stuff all
the time. You know, I was always outside
and somebody's working on their vehicle.
Got to go be busy body. Hey, you know, help them or
somebody's washing machine was broke down with older people,
you know, they can't knight older people, you know, can't do
stuff. And I've always been
mechanically inclined, you know, where I could figure stuff out,
you know, or help them move this or, you know, just I've always
been, I don't know about friendly, but neighborly.
And that being my first home, you know, or try to make it
work. That neighborhood was my home.
Yeah, well, did you help any of the kids over there?
Well, I wouldn't feed them pizza.
Yeah, I've always, there's always.
That's my. Kool-aid House.
Well, I don't know about kool-aid.
That's always been my pet peeve. It's, I grew up hungry, you
know, and I don't there's a lot of kids hungry, you know, and I,
I, I don't like that. I mean, not where I'd go out of
my way. Hey, hungry.
But I mean, you see kids, you're over there eating something and
they're just, you know, you see them drunk, they're naked.
I can't stand that. And I'm that like that now.
I got 2 damn kids in my house. Drone boys.
One they he says that when he was at his house they they
didn't he didn't eat from Monday to Friday till he got to my
house. You know, that's, that's one of
those stories. I I want to turn my phone off so
people. Will leave.
Me alone while we get started here.
Tony, let me go ahead and I want to read your Miranda warning,
OK? You have the right to remain
silent. Anything you say can and will be
used against you in affordable law.
You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have them present
with you while you're being questioned.
If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to
represent you before any questioning, if you wish one.
And if you decide to make a statement, you can stop at any
time. And do you understand each of
those rights? I can explain to you having
those rights in mind. Do you wish to talk to us?
OK, As my partner Landers said, we're still working on the
Hatfield case, OK. And there's some things that we
want to go back over with you. We try to be as thorough as we
can be on cases like this. And I'd like to go back
initially over some of what you've already talked to
Detective Miller about in the past.
I wasn't there. I'm kind of up to speed on some
of it. But my understanding is, is when
Kirsten disappeared, you were still living there at 11 O 4,
correct. OK, Do you mind just initially
kind of take us back to 1997 and go back over that maybe that
evening before and end of that morning when all of it all kind
of started blowing up and just best you can tell us everything
you remember and and take your time.
I know we're going back some some.
Years, yeah. And I'm starting to get that old
timer stuff. But really the only thing I can
really remember is afterwards, you know, when you know, because
it, it was just a, a typical day, you know, I got off work,
went home that supper, watched TV.
When I was used to being a landscaper, my yard was my
pride. Everybody wanted to play in my
yard because my yard was nothing but Bermuda.
I mean, I had, you know, I just had Bermuda grass.
But I mean, not that they came over there, but that's what I
did. I always, I always worked for my
yard. And back then you were you said
you were working at the Capitol. So God see, you were very
experienced in the yard. I.
Well, you know, got chemical license, all the gap and all
that, yeah. OK.
You remember anything about the the day or evening before?
You said it was just a typical day.
You worked all day and then went home.
You remember anything unusual about that evening that stands
out to you? No, other than what I told them
about, you know, seeing the white truck, you know, in front
of their, the white Chevy truck in front of their yard.
OK. You know, I, like I said, I
didn't, I didn't have anything to do with those people.
Didn't know them at all. You know, it's not like I went.
Hey, yeah, You, you got to live girls.
No, it wouldn't look like that. I was usually, I was outside
working in my yard, you know, either talk to the neighbors or
kid would come by, tell me, can you fix my bike?
You know, stuff like that. You know, it wouldn't like I'd
tell them to come over or anything.
I wouldn't go to other people's houses unless, you know, I, I
was needed or something like that.
But everybody just got, oh, Tony will fix your bike and blah,
blah, blah, you know, and not try to make it feel like, you
know, that was kind of a safe place, you know, for, you know,
because I had Tristy at the time.
She wasn't there during that time, but I had Tristy there
since she was, you know, small. And whenever she was there, you
know, the kids would come and play with her.
And she was my, well, one of my girlfriend's daughters that
stayed with me a lot. So you.
Had a good bond with Tristy, I'm assuming, yeah.
Yeah, but she had her mom. Yeah.
Who? Who was Mom?
Mom's dad. Unfortunately, Melanie.
I wonder which name she want to go to.
How? How tristy now?
Growing, I'm assuming, yeah, about 30.
OK. No, I, we don't talk that much
anymore because everybody's into this computer stuff and that's
how they communicate. But my daughter was looking on
her Facebook and she'd send us a text that she was fixing to have
a or that I'm a grandpa. No, she had a daughter.
You said you didn't know them. I'm assuming you're meaning
Shannon and Hurston. And I couldn't even tell you how
long they've they've lived there.
I was going to actually ask you that.
So you didn't know how long they've been living there when
this happened? I going to think they hadn't
been there very long. And, and tell me what you
remember about that. Do you remember seeing them move
in or anything? No.
No, I'm trying to remember. I there were a friend of mine
lived in that house. I can't remember what his damn
name is, but he had a janitorial service, Janet King, and I'd
visit with him. I helped him put the fence up
around his house, you know, helped him.
In fact, his boy come up missing one day.
Really. Yeah.
He was like 7 or 8 or younger than that.
And we went looking everywhere for him.
We finally found him. He was under the bed with the
place pretty crawl underneath the bed.
But I mean, everybody was freaking.
We had Midwest City out there and of course, you know,
everybody in the neighborhood was out there looking at me and
you were, you know, going up St. you know, hauling his name and
then she calls it. Yeah, we found him.
He's like there's. A good that's usually where we
start. You learned that early on in
that FPO school. Check all the closets, check
check out in the boat in the backyard and shit.
So you're saying this friend of yours lived at the house, We're
Shannon and Kirsten moved, Right.
OK. And was that immediately before
them or do you know? You remember, I don't remember,
to tell you the truth. And I don't remember if after he
moved out, if there had been somebody in that house before
they did or, or what. I don't remember.
You remember that guy's name? You said.
You didn't, William. Was his first name.
OK. I don't remember what his last
name was that. That's been football back.
And you said you helped put up the fence around the property,
so we're talking about the stocking fence in the back.
So you and William put that up. Yeah, plank at a time.
That's the old, old school way. Well, actually we had to put it
up twice because we had a storm coming and it moved one side all
the way back down. We had to go pay back.
We got him to finally put the the steel, the metal hose.
Yeah. OK, so had you ever been inside
that house when that gentleman lived there, William?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
And you don't recall his name, but he owned or worked for Danny
Can. I think he he had a, what do you
call it, you know? Anyway, yeah, janitorial
service, yeah, it was a janitorial service.
But you know, you can have a, a piece of that company, but you
still be the company that you're, you're involved.
That's the critter. I was like before.
So you never, I'm assuming you probably saw Shannon and Perston
running around the neighborhood and so forth.
To tell you the truth, until that happened, I, I, I think
I've seen the kid one time she was playing with the crystal
that lived up the street, but I don't remember if it was in that
time frame or what. I don't.
I don't really don't because I like I said, I didn't pay no
attention. Do you remember ever like giving
food to Kirsten or talking to Kirsten?
Was she ever at your house? Anything like that I'm.
I'm, I'm actually a leery guy until, you know, people start
coming around, you know, I, I just, I'm just.
Oh, yeah. I will be your friend, you know?
No, not like that. But I didn't know.
I didn't, I, I didn't have, don't, didn't pay attention to,
you know, who I was there or who they were, you know, things like
that in my world just falling because, you know, we
accidentally meet. Oh, OK.
Yeah. Now I know you, you know then,
but no, never. Never.
Do you ever recall helping Kirsten with her by no or
anything? You don't remember any
interactions with them. No, I know there would be any
interactions. I didn't.
I didn't know them at all. And I like I said, I don't even
know how long they'd been living there until that happened.
OK, Because I was always me. That was back when I was
fishing. I'd juicy come off of work and
load up my poles, go to Drudman and sometimes I'd stay there all
night, but I'd always have, you know, second jobs, you know,
after after hour jobs, either landscaping or anything,
anything to make a bug. I'm pretty sure that Detective
Miller talked to you this before, but am I correct that
you said you had never been over there mowing for Shannon or on
her property or seems like that that come up somebody thought
you might have been mowing over there or something?
No, he was. Asking it's about something
about a handyman was what he was asking me about.
OK well do you remember ever mowing over there or anything
like that? No.
OK did while they lived there. Do you remember ever being in
the yard, the front or backyard for any reason?
OK, how about in the house? Nope.
OK, so there was never any time that Shannon asked for your help
to fix this or that or mow the yard for me or?
OK, just tell you the truth then.
The only and I didn't even recognize her when y'all showed
me the pictures of her. That was the only time I could
actually say, OK, that's you know, I met her once afterwards
she was going up and down the street and you know, she was
still looking for her kid and you know, I met her once.
So I gave her some money so she'd have gas money so she
could keep doing what she was doing, you know?
Was this like in the day days after or?
Talking a long time. Let, let, let me bounce back a
little bit. We got off a little bit off
track. I was kind of having you go back
over what you remembered through the night and I, I read over
the, the FBI notes that they took when they talked to you.
I guess there was some information about you hearing
dogs. Barking.
I had a dog in the backyard. Dog.
His name was Dog. About 3:00 or 4:00 in the
morning you went to raising hell.
So I just, you know, believe it or not, in my neighborhood we
still got skunks and possums and stuff like that, plus other
dogs, you know. So I don't know why that woke me
up, but because I usually didn't wake up and, and usually he's
out inside anyway. But it woke me up and he was
barking at that back fence, at our back fence.
But at the time, as you walk out my back door, I had an apricot
tree. So unless you went out there,
you know, you couldn't see. And I just hollered at him
because, you know, thinking there was another dog because
there was always in traffic. There was human traffic back
there. But usually there was other
dogs. Yeah, there was other dogs or
cats. There's always animals through
there. So I just, you know, I really
didn't think nothing about it. I just hollered at him and he
came in and I went back to bed. So you actually let him back
into the house? So you open what, your back
door, I'm assuming, and let him know.
Did you go investigate? Did you look down the alley?
Anything like that? No, because.
Usually in the past, whenever I did, that's what it was, was,
you know, either another dog or people use that alleyway, you
know, to get through it. Why?
I don't know because I mean, I don't know where you'd be going
other than from house to house, but there was always, not
always, but there was, there was traffic.
And, and Speaking of the alleyway, did you have any kind
of a gate or anything that went out to it?
So you didn't have access to it through your backyard?
I, I mean, I, I think that'd be be ideal to be able to go out in
the alley and you could back a trailer up and just seems like
everybody had a. Gate.
Well, the house next door to me had didn't have a fence, so
whenever I weed eat it or you know did whatever, 'cause I
always weed eat it, you know 2 foot around from my fence, you
know, next door and then that alleyway quits.
The alleyway was. 'Cause I read your, your
statement, You said you saw your gate ajar.
Which gate was that gate ajar? Yeah.
You didn't have a gate on the back or on the side.
Did you have a gate on the side of that?
Yeah, we got a gate. Well, it's yeah, it's a gay, but
no, it wouldn't 1 ajar, OK. Anything else that night after
you let dog back in? Did anything else occur that you
remember? No, I went back to bed.
And then when did you first become aware of Kirsten was
missing and all that? Going well, the next day there
was all that activity and I asked neighbor across the street
what was going on. They said they couldn't find
Kirsten. And I didn't think nothing about
it. You know, I went to work and
then I, I don't remember if she called me or I called over there
or what. And they said there's one people
back, you know, because they wanted to go to our houses and
blah, blah, blah. So clocked out and came back
home. Do you remember what time it was
that you clocked out, came back home?
Was this morning? Was this afternoon.
Probably mid morning, something like that.
Now, who was the friend that you were communicating?
With it was and I don't today. I don't know what her name is.
Y'all showed me a picture of her.
I think y'all showed me a picture of her Anyway of her
husband Don is this. The Halsey's Tiffany Halsey and
Don Halsey. Yeah, I'm not sure if if if Mr.
Halsey is Don or not. Did you have everybody that
called me? So there was, there was that we
were wanted back at our house. OK.
So I I came home OK. And then what happened?
I just sat there. Did did any of our officers or
the FBI or anybody come by? It was the FBI, you know, OK, we
came in, took statements, you know, walked through the house
and, you know, wanted to go in the backyard and, you know,
because I had a shed back there. You want to look in the shed
and. OK, so he did look through the
house and look through the shed. You probably don't remember who
that was, I'm sure. OK.
And did he? Was he just?
Asking you general questions about first Gen. and did you
know where have you seen her that kind of thing or?
Basically. Did you write out a statement
for him or did he? Did he just had a conversation?
I thought he brought out a statement, but he asked me if
he'd come in. He wanted, you know, asked me
what I knew, but at the time really wasn't anything he wanted
to. He said they was going through
the canvassing, the neighborhood and, you know, asking everybody.
And so, yeah. 17 years ago, honey, were you experimenting
with any drugs? No, never did.
No, I drink beer. Just drank.
I drink beer. But as far as drugs, no.
Was cursed than ever one of the kids that you had seen?
Or was there any talk in the neighborhood about her being
mistreated or abused or in need? I really I had no inkling that
they even existed until after that.
I didn't know I had. Never seen her.
Anything maybe once or twice and didn't think nothing about it.
You know, just another kid. Speaking of 17 years ago, who?
Who all was living there at your house back then?
Just me. OK.
She lived alone. Do you recall?
Were you dating anybody? Were you?
Did you have a girlfriend? Me and Melody were off and on.
OK. Years.
For years. And you said that was Melody
Howe, right? And that's what's her daughter's
name. Tristy.
She's got two daughters, Tristy and Robin.
Tristy, Tri. STSTI and Robin.
Robin, did you say STI or why? OK, do you know what Tristy and
Robin's last names are? Tristy's was howl at the time.
Robin was married, I think at the time.
So she was going for something different.
Would Melody come stay the night with you sometime?
That kind of thing. OK, but she didn't live there
full time. But she she's, like I said, she
passed away about four or five years ago.
That's right. That's not good.
As far as other people you hung out with back then, do you have
any good friends or anybody that you associated with in the
neighborhood or? Oh, in the neighborhood?
No, no. OK, how about I mean just
generally like who were your friends best you can recall back
then? Basically just people that I
worked with. OK.
Up there at the Capitol. No, no long lost power from
school or anything. Yeah, I guess you moved off from
New Mexico and left them there. Yeah, and I'm not the kind that
goes to a bar. You know, If I'm not drink, I
drink at home. I mean, I know I've met a lot of
people, but so you. You would drink some but didn't
do any, didn't experiment with drugs, didn't do marijuana
anything. Did they drug test back back in
them days at your work? Well, they always hold that over
on us, you know, but we never, we never had a got UA.
OK. So it was kind of the the
threat. Yeah, there was some not recent
look of them. Have you ever had any trouble
with the law before? Years ago, first degree
burglary, assault and dog with a dangerous weapon.
I think I told your partner that really that when I was a dumb
kid. How?
How long ago? Was that I was I think fixed
turned 18. So you were just a boy?
And all about it. My girlfriend.
Walters. Walters, Oklahoma.
Oh, OK, up in Cotton County. I got out of Job Corps I they
found me a job there in Walters as a diesel mechanic.
Is that how you bought your training was?
Actually, I was training for an auto mechanic, but they found me
a job as a diesel mechanic and the counselor at Job Corps, he
made some deal with the government that if the
government or the employer would pay half the wages, they would
pay, you know, for OJT. So it was a pretty good deal.
Yeah, it was. I'm surprised that decent you
didn't stay with that. Those decent mechanics make some
money. Yeah, but it's.
Hard work. I mean it can be harder than
weed eating all the. Time some of the some of the
parts weigh heads for one of the burst tiles was probably 200 lbs
and you got you got a tire about that high and you got to get it
up on that and get it, you know, on the block.
And then you're torquing stuff at 240 foot pounds, you know,
laying on your back and it's, it's hard.
In the last 17 years Tony, have you, have you changed much?
Is this how you were 17 years ago?
Just a hard working man. Yeah, that's basically it.
It changed older wise, but no. And I'm not the same person I
was 17 years ago. I've matured a little bit.
I wish I could say that. Life changes people, you know?
As you get older, you start recognizing things that you that
you could handle differently than what you if you had it to
do over again, you'd change. You know I can.
That's the thing, we can't, we can't ever change it.
No, you can't change what happened, but sometimes you can
make things better. I remember a few years ago I
went to my high school reunion and I seen a kid that honestly,
I just tormented the death. I made his and I was able to
find him and. Make amends I.
Make amends and apologize and tell him how, you know what, I
was immature at the time and asked for his forgiveness.
And, you know, I think that by the end of he actually
remembered some of the things I'd done and we talked about it
and I, I felt a lot better. And I think he felt better at
the end. I know I did when he said he
gave me some absolution, Some forgiveness for what?
Yeah. I know you were just, you
weren't very mature back then and you know.
And it's good for your own self respect too.
It is to get it out and I tell you about the weight and I don't
know why God had put on me a burden of of guilt.
I, I want to say I want to use the word guilt, but I really
felt like after I did that, I had a a new outlook and because
I wasn't I picked on him. But I I also, you know, other
kids does but and it helped me deal with my tormentors and
forgiving them and realizing because I came from a poor
family. I was a white trailer, white
trash, lived in a trailer park. You know, you know what I'm
saying? I didn't have the nice clothes
and I had two pairs of blue jeans and PF Flyers.
Remember PF Flyers if I was really lucky, I got from the
Poonos Linda shoes or jeans. No, PF Flyers were black and
white tennis shoes. They were the. 1st.
Ones that you rent that you could run really fast.
When I was like moved to California my problem was
whenever growing up I had crooked feet and the only thing
that was fixed up was couple of boots.
So when I moved to Delano, CA I was young kid in high school and
had couple of boots. I imagine.
It wasn't. Sandals and tennis shoes and all
that. But you know, I, I.
I was very, I felt. Very fortunate to be able to
that he was at this reunion and you know, we were a small class.
There was only about 50 of us, so we all knew each other.
And, you know, he was dirt poor like me and which made it even
worse. You know, I should have been
picking on the on. The rich kid.
On the rich Kid, but I didn't. The point being that I really
felt a lot better about it and even now after I mean that.
Heck, that was my 25th high school referee.
You know, reunion. That I was able to do that.
He still picks on me though. So he really hadn't changed his
wedding. That's he he like.
He asked for next week. He's.
Gone fishing. The week before, he was gone
fishing. You get to go fishing?
Yeah, for a week. Don't, don't.
That's what radiation. Because he like just when he's
gone. It's all right, it's my therapy,
it's all right. Actually, it is therapy.
It's very good therapy. It is.
I'm like you, I've worked. I mean, that's all I've ever
known is. Work.
But now my wife doesn't understand that working is
therapy too, especially. Well, I've always, I've always
suffered from depression, but young kid so and that always
seems like working. I guess get your mind off of
whatever it is you're thinking about or you know, whatever.
So that's all I do is work. You can get a sense of
accomplishment, too. That's one thing we really.
Especially when it's your your folks tell you that you ain't
worth the shit, you'll never mind to hell beans and blah blah
blah blah blah blah. Yeah.
I know. Show you the yeah.
I don't have to grow up in. Self environment like that.
That's that's a shame. I remember my dad, he never
wrestled in, went to state and dad never saw me wrestle, you
know, and I asked him about it one day and it's been bothered
me for years. And he goes, well, I never
discouraged you from doing it. And now get you.
And he goes and he goes. My dad would down there on the
farm paw. He was a rough man, you know, he
would browbeat those boys. So dad has progressed to he's
better than his father. Hopefully I'm better than my
father was as far as encouraging.
Yeah, but that's that's telling you that he didn't discourage
you, you know. That's wrong.
And that affects you? Yeah.
I mean, that stays with you for life.
I've I'm always on my boy because my grandson's the
greatest thing who walks the face of the earth, and I'm
always on him. Hey, you're too hard on that
boy. You're too hard on that boy.
You're too hard on him. And so hopefully he, he's a
better father than I am. He was, he is so.
But I was very fortunate to get to get some things off my chest
over the years. And as I get older, I, you know,
my dad has even talked to me about things that he has wished
he had redone, you know? Yeah, I think everybody has my
only well done within that really, and that's probably
probably getting completely off the deal.
But when I left Walters, when I got in trouble with Walters, I
was going out with an Angel. I mean a good.
Woman, huh? My biggest mistake.
Yeah, I fucked up big time. Did you?
That's the only time I can really stay there.
I I dressed up. With you camper.
Well, yeah, that's basically what it what had happened, you
know, he was picking on her and I had like a dumb kid had to go
do something about it, you know? Well, not necessarily a dumb
kid. Sometimes men got to do.
Well, now you know there's other ways of doing stuff but.
And of course, I've been drinking.
Right. That's not the best decision
making process conducive to great decision making.
Believe me. I was telling my partner as we
was driving that out to your work that I was 16 years old and
we'd cut school and back then that's where we we went
drinking. Dirty Bird.
And now that I've put my Mustang
in the ditch out there and I shouldn't have and I tried.
Telling them I probably found 200 gold rings and something up
there. Wow, do they wash up on the bank
with current waves or do you think they get lost there?
Well, they get lost and then they get covered up, you know,
because of the wave action. And then the wave action
uncovers it again. And then you have to be at the
right time at the right place. So every time, you know, after
it winds blowing, you know, I checked my because I I hate
glass in the water. Yeah, that's another one of my
pet peeves. Yeah, I'm stepping on that.
Well, first, first month I was there, I was out at Turkey Pass
picking up trash and people were, yeah, from out of state.
Kid goes in the water. What's the first thing he does?
Steps on a damn rusty hook. And after that, I thought now,
so every day, every day, I'd go out there and not have a couple
of five gallon buckets and I'd fill them suckers up.
OK, You know I do that enough. You know I get it all.
But you don't. You'll be surprised.
You get out there and you have it spotless next day, next week,
like nothing ever. You know, you never do that.
Nothing. Yeah.
Hey to get back to.
What we're here about, I'm not. I mean, you've been living there
all these years since Kirsten went missing.
I'm curious about your your thoughts on what happened, who
might be involved, that kind of thing.
I don't know, tell you the truth, like I said, I didn't
know them. But the one thing that's always
bothered me that she left the mom, she went to Jones, I guess
with her dad or something like that.
I, you could have got me off out of my house.
You know, I mean, I'm not whether she comes back or you
know what, if somebody makes a call or, you know, something
like that, I, there was no way I'd left that house.
That's the only thing that bothers me.
Yeah. So you felt like she shouldn't
have left, huh? Yeah, Yeah.
Did you ever at any. Point over these years or or
back when it occurred, have any knowledge of what happened or
know who was involved or you in any way involved?
No, no. So you're not responsible for
person's disappearance? No, didn't play any part in
that. Like I said, didn't know, didn't
have. Like I said, I just probably,
you know, might have seen her bullets, flies playing with the
kids, but other than that, I didn't, I didn't know.
Well, just out of curiosity, what do you think the motivation
was of whoever did this? I mean, why would this have
happened? Well, Darren, I could have told
you, but after over the years, you know, and hearing the rumors
and this and that and the other me, it always boils down the
drugs, you know, I heard that she was on meth and cocaine and
all this other Don's wife was the same thing.
You know, she said, yeah, she'd been over there, you know, that
night and they got lit up. So apparently she did get lit up
because, you know, if somebody did come in, I mean, when you
heard it. I don't know so, but I was
telling. You that she left Kirsten home
alone, you think? Or I.
Don't know. I'm sure she did, but I don't
know. Like I said, I didn't know and I
really didn't pay much attention to to Don and his wife.
It's just I read it. They live.
I'm I'm pretty sure that had all of this to me.
She had to go down the street, not straight, just Cady corner,
the little White House, Cady Corner for me.
And they had two or three kids and I come home one day and I
was rewarding myself. I did something and I was
stopped at Kentucky Fried Children.
Got me family packet chicken. I was going to go to town and
the kids when I walked up there was just the one.
They were eyeballing me, you know, like they hadn't ate
nothing. I mean, they really, if you, if
you'd have seen them, you'd have thought that too, because, I
mean, they were skinny. So I got me a piece of chicken.
I was chewing on it and they just, you want some chicken?
Is that all I was baking out of this?
Yeah. But I just gave me one damn
thing because I, I know it's not that it's something everybody do
because we got kids that are, you know.
Yeah. And I know he was a lot about
trade, but he, you know, talking to him a time or two, you know,
things weren't going right for him.
And, you know, he didn't have money and all that.
So, yeah, I didn't, I didn't have a problem.
You know what are we? Talking about was a well.
From looking back over the history I I understood that
Shannon's brother, I guess stayed with you.
In a short. Time, Aaron.
Aaron, tell us about that. How did that happen?
And he was in the neighborhood, you know, he's looking,
apparently looking for, you know, his niece.
So I'm out there going down and he stops and he talks, you know,
anything and blah, blah, blah. You know, we just got to
talking. And, you know, he's living in
the Dome, you know, under bridge.
And dude, you know, I found out already that he'd that night
that he'd been locked up, you know, so he wasn't a suspect in
motherfucks. So, yeah, I opened my house to,
you know, he got he had did that for anybody, you know, it's safe
to say. But that's the kind of guy I am.
So he needed a place to sell. There's a couch, you know, you
can trash here for a couple days and, you know, try to do what
you got to do to, you know, figure out what happened to your
niece. Because I mean, to me that's
like, y'all, that's serious. Sure.
Absolutely. How long after a person went
missing did this happen? Was it like the same week?
Was it? Yeah.
Probably in the same. Week and the same week and then
I. Can't, I can't verify that
because like I said, that's that's been a while.
But yeah, it was probably about the same week.
How long did Aaron stay there with you?
Oh, just. A couple of days and then, you
know, he'd go off and then he'd come back.
And then I wound up having to just told me he couldn't come
back 'cause he was on that too. Then at the time, they'd do it
and that. AP That says you, you, you've
heard that Shannon was using drugs, too.
I mean, I don't know for four or five, but that's what I heard.
And it I'll just say this, if you ever partied with them, if
you knew they were doing drugs or witnessed it, just just tell
us that. I don't know.
We're not. No, I don't.
I don't know. Like I said, there's and you all
know, you got people that do drugs, you got people that drink
and you don't do drugs and you don't, you know, do I drink?
But no, I never partied with him and I never partied with Don in
his life. Now, did you know Aaron at all
before? So you'd never met him, ever
talked to him before either? Did he ever confide in you
anything about the case or anything about Shane?
And he couldn't clear his sister.
Those words will always, you know, I can't do it as the way
he said it, I can't clear my sister.
So he was suspicious of, of shame.
Did he ever give you any, any real factual information that
would be beneficial to the case? No, I like I said, I'm hearing
my own free will. If I had any information, yeah,
I'd give it to you. Would that be the same thing if
something were to happen? To my daughter.
My God, yeah. I don't know how she does it.
I mean, if she's innocent, God bless her soul, I don't know how
she does because I just thinking about it, what would I do if my
daughter came up missing and she's my world?
That's all I've got. My old lady can go to hell, but
my kid that's no. Yeah, I.
Agree because I became a Midwest City.
It's hard to imagine. We've talked a lot about kind of
the background. I, I want to kind of talk to you
about some new information developed in this case, OK?
As you know, Detective Miller got some buckle swabs from you a
couple months back or whenever it was, there was a reason for
that, OK? And we collected DNA samples
from lots of people, but we've submitted, resubmitted some
evidence from the case and got Adna kit.
OK. The reason those buckle swabs
were even collected was we were trying to find the person
responsible, OK? We we talked about had you ever
been in the backyard? Have you ever been in the house?
All those things. And you said you hadn't.
Not while they were there, no. OK.
Well, I don't. I don't believe you, Tony.
I don't think you're telling the whole truth, OK?
Your DNA is in the backyard. The morning that she was
discovered missing, OK? And on her window.
And on the panties she'd been wearing the night before that
were recovered in the backyard. No, no, not me, because I was
not. No.
Yeah, that. That's the truth.
I find it far fast. But no, because I I don't know.
I didn't know. Maybe you didn't know him,
honey, but we. And I didn't have no business
over there at all. That maybe also what we need to
talk about is what you were doing in that backyard that
night and what happened we need to get to the truth of.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Were you there trying to help Kirsten?
No, like I said, I didn't know anything about them people at
all. Nothing.
Never met them, never said I buy
nothing. Well, here's the here's our.
Problem with that is how did your DNA get there then?
Don't know. I mean, is it, is this something
that's gone on? Tell me that, is this one of
those things from 17 years ago? The split second decision has
haunted you for 17 years. I don't know what's on
something. Are you there to?
Help her? No, like I said, I don't.
I had nothing to do with any people.
Nothing. I didn't know him at all.
OK, so how did? Your DNAI have no idea there.
I have no idea. Tell me your blood is on her
window. Your blood is on Kirsten's
panties. I don't see how that could
happen. Well, it happens when you're
injured in some way and your blood gets transferred to her
window in those panties and it gets left behind.
I think you were there to help. No.
Or was it there period? How?
Did your blood get there? I have no idea.
Tell me you were there. This this is scientific
evidence. It's not a debate, it's not
anything that can be. Argued and.
And here's the point where I really feel you're a good guy.
I mean, you've worked 29 years at a hard job.
You came up rough like I did. Came up poor.
Yeah, but then. He saw the 4th.
I had nothing to do with any of this but.
Here's the thing. I don't think you're that was
your intention. You're going to have to explain
this. You were there.
Now I do it if you were there, if you were there because you
heard her yelling for help from your backyard and you go over
there to see because you knew that her mother was a meth head
and that she is probably home alone.
And you went over there to help. And you went to the backyard to
avoid the conflict with the mother.
And you was just going to take care of this little girl because
just like you growing up, you didn't want her being treated
that way. That is, that's how
understandable things become. Yeah, I can understand that, but
I don't I don't understand maybe my.
DNA maybe? Well, how exactly?
How was your blood? I have no idea.
Well. I wasn't there at all.
We we weren't there either. All we have is this the evidence
that was collected. I didn't.
Collect it. It was.
Collected 17 years ago, Tony, But it's there and we have to
deal with this. And you're saying you were never
there? No, there's no reason it should
be there. No, it's not helping your cause.
What's going to help your cause is to explain to us how it's
there. I because they don't have a
clue. Because the fact it's there is
the gorilla in the room. Now there is a reasonable
explanation As for why you were there and you were there to help
Kirsten. No.
You were there for, you had a relationship with Shannon.
No, never knew her. You were there, the peeping Tom
or something of this nature? No, then those are explainable
to God. I understand.
That, but I I won't. Never there, never there, never
there. Can't give us any reason.
Why your blood would be there? No.
Tony, the worst thing you can do for yourself right now in this
position is lie and not be. Truthful.
I'm being truthful dude. I don't know why I don't.
I can't explain that why that y'all are finding this.
Well, your blood is in that backyard.
The wing that she's discovered missing.
OK, this is your chance, Tony. I understand.
That explain explain what happened.
Maybe you didn't mean. You know, for.
Whatever. Has something happened?
There. Or you were there?
You were there. Was you in that depression?
Was that a period when you were going through a depression and
drinking and getting depressed and you don't remember until
later? Whatever sudden.
Occurred. I don't even think I was
drinking that night, to tell you the truth.
I might have been, but I don't think so.
And I was in bed and I started, sure, I don't football just
suddenly deal. Where you got drunk the night
before and and actually went through with some urges you had.
You know, whether you're attracted to little girls or
whatever you're I've never been attracted.
To little girls 4 little boys. Well, once again, how is your
blood there? I don't know, do you?
Not. Do you not believe me when I
tell you that we have your DNA? I don't.
You don't believe me, OK, And I I I can show you the.
I'm sure you're going to just be in touch with that, but I don't,
I don't know how that could have happened.
Well, I love it there. There's more to this story,
Tony, and that's what we're hoping to get from you today.
And this is your opportunity to be truthful and to take
responsibility for whatever. Happened.
If I was responsible, that'd be different.
OK. Well, with that said, were you
there and somebody else was there and actually took her and
maybe you left your neighbor? There, I'm not into middle girls
and I'm not a window peeper. OK, well, is there some other
explanation for why you were in that backyard that night?
I wasn't in that backyard. I don't know how my blood could
have been there or what. I know I went to bed.
I know when the dog woke me up I didn't go out my back door.
I let dog in and I went back to bed.
Well, Tony, I I don't know how to impress upon you anymore
than. The.
Physical evidence there, Tony, We really do.
And we have to get to a point where we can explain that.
I understand that, you know. Help me do.
That I wish I could. I don't know.
I don't know what you want to talk about.
I don't sleepwalk. Tony, I think that you've been
living with this a long time. And I.
Think that's what? With what happened.
And I think that it's, it's one of those things, Tony, where
you're scared and but I think it's, there's some verses that
says, you know, at some point everything is known.
And I truly believe that. And one of these days that
you're going to have to come and realize that.
And I don't I think that your best bet is simply tell the
truth. I've been telling the truth.
Well, unfortunately, what you're telling me doesn't align with
any of the physical evidence that we have.
And unless there's a huge conspiracy to the FBI and the
OSBI and our officers from 17 years ago to frame you, we have
to explain this. And I really think you're, you
need to talk about it because I think that's the best thing for
you to do is simply tell us the truth.
I think you're going to feel better about it.
You're going to have a weight lifted off your shoulders.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
OK, you got somebody's blood, but I not mine.
I was not there, OK? Not that night, not the night
before, not the night after. Did someone talk to you into
doing something? Going with them.
No, I wouldn't do that. So how did?
How do we explain your? Blood.
I have no idea. Well, the blood's.
Going to have to be explained to me.
It's going to have to be, yeah. I mean, I'm trying to go in my
head. I don't how anything or but I
whenever she was living there, I didn't go there.
I was there when William was there, but and even then I don't
don't see how to cut myself on the window.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
I wasn't. There, brother, I don't know
either. OK, well, I'm telling.
You that the physical evidence is going to have to be
explained. I think that you made a mistake
and I think you've lived through this a long time and I believe
that your depression issues and things and the way you were
raised and the abuse that you took as a child, I never had
that depressed and has something to do with it the other day.
This is our OSPI results. I, I kind of no disrespect, I
get the impression maybe you don't believe me.
So I want to just bring you the copy directly from OSDI and
we've highlighted it here for you, OK?
I just want to understand that this isn't, this isn't a bluff,
Tony. You see those odds, those odds.
I can just tell you that from my years of experience, I've never
seen at that level. Which means this is your DNA,
OK? This is your life, Tony.
There is. That's Kirsten's panties that
her mom identified that she had on that night.
And that's where your blood was found, as well as on her window
seal. So this isn't just A and and
just so you'll know, we also located some blood on the fence
picket and it's still out for testing, but I suspect that
there's a good chance. I guess that'll come back to
you. I can't.
Explain that and that's. That's what I want to give you
an opportunity to do is explain it because it's scientific
evidence. We know for a fact it's your
blood. And of course, Tony, I don't
have to tell you that when these panties are identified as as
Kirsten's, then mom says, yeah, she was wearing those the night
before. And the next morning at dawn,
your blood is found in them at the back fence of the property.
I mean, if you're in my position as the detective, what does that
tell you? Look good for me.
You know, I just want to plead. With you to be.
Honest. I want to be honest.
I know.
You know, I mean, Tony, I think this has gone on for so many
years and has been unsolved, as you all know, for for a long,
long time. And I'm sure you've told people
countless times, I had nothing to do with it.
I don't know anything about it, et cetera, et cetera.
But this isn't the time to keep saying the same old routine
because this didn't go in the way.
You get what I'm saying? Yeah.
I mean, this is scientific, scientific evidence, Tony.
That's your DNA. That's your cells from your
body. Tell me.
I mean, tell me what happened. How did you get injured?
I'm trying to figure it out myself what what what all this
is about. I mean, you were you were in in
some injured for your blood to be on her window and for your
blood to be in our panels. My, what I want to know from
you, was there some kind of a dispute between you and cursed?
I had no dealings with those people, didn't know nothing
about them. I believe that.
I believe that, but I also believe that this is your DNA on
her window seal and your DNA on her panties in the backyard.
I don't doubt that you didn't know them, that that doesn't
take this away. This isn't going anywhere and
we've got to get to the truth of the matter.
I mean, for you to sit here and say I've never been in that
backyard and I wasn't there, it's a lie, Tony.
That's not the truth. It's it's not the truth.
And I got to believe, if I can speak frankly, you seem like a
good guy and I, I know if I've made a mistake like that and we
all make mistakes, we're all sinners.
But I got to believe this has been bugging you for your entire
life since it happened. If if it doesn't, then you're a
cold blooded killer. Tony.
Is that what you're telling me? I ain't never killed nobody.
OK, so you're telling me what happened that morning or that
night hadn't been bothering you all these?
Years. That's not me.
I don't was that. Was that the alcohol or were you
experimenting with? Something else I don't do drugs
and I don't know. I don't know.
I still trying to tell them in my mind.
What blood? My blood.
Yeah. I was never around there, didn't
know their people, didn't have no dealings with their people,
didn't care about. Some people tell me this, this
is I always tell you, OK, I you can sit here and say that same
crash over and. Over.
You and I both know that's not the truth, no.
It's the truth. I have to come out.
I don't understand. This, the truth is what needs to
come out, and you're the only person that can do that.
You're the only person. That can bring Kirsten back and
let her family have a proper burial for her.
You're the person that can help do that.
You made a mistake, Tony, and you made a huge mistake.
Do which right now, take responsibility for what happened
and help us get Kirsten. Back, I can't help you.
I don't know, I don't understand.
You said that's. Not me.
And when and when somebody says that to me, what it says is just
left. I live in my right mind.
I was under the influence. What in the influence?
Like I said, if I had beer, I'm going to have two.
I went to bed. I always go to bed.
I'm at 10:00 bedtime guy. The only reason here why I've
been going to sleep is because I have to have a treatment.
I wake up every 2 1/2 hours, 3 hours, take treatment, go back
to sleep. I have nothing bothering me
rather than breathing problems. So your conscience hasn't been
bothering you for all these years?
You know, let me ask you this. Your wife told us that every
year on Kirsten's anniversary that you're upset about it, that
you go through a phase of being depressed and upset about it.
And the reason that is it's on the news and.
Yeah. How do you feel about it?
Well, yeah, I'm going to be upset.
I mean, it's a missing child. But.
But I mean, as far as me. Oh, what?
What day is this? No.
It's not just a missing child, Tony.
It's a missing child with your blood on her Lindo cell and your
blood on her pants. So should that affect you?
Absolutely. And that tells me you're human.
That tells me that you have a heart and you have a conscience,
but you're not showing it, sitting here and denying that
you've never been in there. I don't know anything about it.
That wasn't me. That's not the truth, Tony.
This is the time. I'm going to be saying that, but
I I don't. You need to think about that
because I'm just telling you when all this gets presented to
the judge and jury. I understand.
Do you think anybody's going to believe in?
Their blood. Don't believe me?
Nobody's. Going to believe you because
it's not the truth Tony. If you want to carry it to your
grave and not do what's right, that's on you that you need to
think about what you're doing because right now these will say
every right and I was with them blood or meat because I was not
there. And I'm in that night.
I was in my same boat. Yeah, I don't want to spend.
It well, it's pretty clear. You know how big sexy it is.
That's that's that's true. Yeah, it's too big.
I mean, that's you can line people up from planet Earth all
the way to the moon. You Remember Me, don't you?
I mean, we, I've been working on this case for two years here.
Look at me real quick. I've been working on this for
two years. I've got a little girl about her
age. She's age at the time.
And this case is all I think this case has taken over me and
it it's all I think about, you know, and I told you earlier on,
you know, all the cases I work is crimes against children
cases. So my whole life, I go home, I
have kids, I kind of work, I deal with kids, you know, and
you seem like, like, like you said in our past, you know,
conversations we've had all you do is you care about kids, you
take care of the neighborhood kids.
And you got a hard disciplination.
Yeah. And that that's what I, we're
trying to figure out, Tony, is how is your, your blood, your
DNA, get on it. And you were there when I, when
I took your sample from you, right?
We had an unknown male profile DNA on her panties and on her
window sill. I mean it don't make no sense to
me. All I'm concerned about is where
is she at? Tony.
I'm not sure where is she at. Help me find her.
I mean we got pictures of window sills.
And of. The window sill that day, you
know, we go right down the line with all these pictures.
You know, you say, oh, I mean everything.
Of course, today it's a totally different ball game.
There'll be 500 pictures of a window sill and it it's all
there. I mean, to figure out the print.
Yeah, those are kids prints there.
I was not there the day before that day.
Next day, I know. Have you talked with the FBI
since the last time you and I spoke?
No. OK.
What all have you done for that? Have you taken a polygraph?
Have you been to their office? Tell me the time I was talked to
the FBI was when they were anywhere.
Else. OK, but you've never taken a
polygraph anything like that, didn't we?
Didn't we ask you about a polygraph when I spoke with you
last? I don't think we did.
What that Trisky did? OK, that's right.
You did take a polygraph of that but but.
We need to figure this out. Yes, you do.
But you're my key. You're the one that can help me,
Tony. I want you to help me if I.
Could I? Would because it's making me
look. What about?
Well, yeah. Well, I'm not going to hear.
I'm not, I'm not going to be mean or anything, but I, I need
the truth. I need I.
Need the truth? Do I need to find her?
I need to find Kirsten. Help me find her.
OK. Help you.
Was there somebody else involved?
I. Can't help you on that either.
I no I didn't help anybody or help myself take this drill.
Now, how do you explain? The ball I don't and I can't.
You got to let me see your arm. You have a scar in your arm.
What happened there? I was picking up the toilet bowl
and it cracked. What was that last year?
Hey, hey. I'm the Major.
I'm Major David House. I'm I'm, I'm pretty much these
guys, boss, the guys that have been out there kind of talking
to me about the interview. What do you say?
Let's let's take a break for just a minute.
I don't want you getting upset at us.
We really are trying to get to the truth, but I don't want you
getting upset with us. Take a drink of water.
We'll just relax for a minute, OK, And we'll just take a deep
breath. All right, I, I know.
I said smoke a cigarette. Yeah.
Come on. Come on out with us.
You're gonna have to go with us, though, OK?
Yes, I. Understand.
I want to make sure we don't have any juveniles out here.
Hold on a second. Yeah, hold on a second.
We got cheap and all this stuff right here.
I I normally don't do it. I'll let you smoke in here.
I normally don't do that. OK, Yeah, there's some kids
around. You'll be right.
Now go ahead man, you're fine. Normally don't let people do
this. Probably against no other law
anymore. Well, I know you're stressed, so
we're going to allow it. I'll smoke three pipes a day.
Do you have since I was 12? I can't.
I can't explain this. And the only thing that I'm
thinking right now is, yeah, I'm being set up because we want to
close this case. That's young things coming in my
head right now. Seriously.
OK, Well, I understand what you're saying.
I'm going to be honest with you. When this first stuff with the
stuff first came out, the DNA, I want to understand how it works
because not everybody does this. So it wouldn't be uncommon for
you not to know the. Real.
Person that doesn't do police work doesn't know the DNA that
we got off of these pins that was taken all the way back when
it happened, OK? And it was put into a container
where we can keep it indefinitely, all right?
It's been there ever since the FBI ticket when they were
helping us. It was there, OK?
We had what was called an unknown DNA sample.
We knew that it was human DNA. We can tell that asterisk.
Oh, we have to. We knew human DNA.
OK, And we knew it was human DNA from the male.
We can know that. What we don't know when we got
it back then, we didn't know the name attached to it.
We didn't know whose DNA that was.
OK, When the FBI and Detective Miller went out and got those
swabs, OK, got them. They got them from a bunch of
people. All right?
You being one of them. Then it was tested against the
sample that was taken off the windowsill and off of the
panties, which by the way, I don't know if they told you this
or not, but also has Kirsten's DNA on it because little kids,
they get their little pee pee in their pants and skid marks.
So her DN as on it, your DN as on it, and it's also on the
window seal. That was all done way back when
this all happened. It's just now that the DNA
results have come back and I don't know if they told you
this. You seem like an intelligent
man, so to help you comprehend when we're talking about when we
say we allow this to be a fact, remember sextillion, what this
is saying if you take a one and you put 21 zeros behind it.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's yours.
Any anybody in the world, any scientist is going to say that
that is your. Blood.
Now, obviously when we have a case like this, we're not going
to Mr. Palmer, We're not going to lay out everything that we
know and everything we have. And that's just not the way it
works. It'd be counterproductive.
We're not going to do it. There's more than this, but
we're going to try to get you to digest, try to digest one thing
at a time. Now, having said that, do we
know all the circumstances surrounding what happened that
night? We don't only only God, the
person who did it, and Kirsten probably know that, but I'm
going to tell you this. We do know that Kirsten was
wearing those that night. We do know that your blood's on
there and her DNA is on there. And that is just an absolute
fact. Yeah, I understand that.
And, and I, I pleaded, you know, just listening and talking to
you, you know, 1718 years now has passed.
I'm going on my 25th year here. I worked every case you could
probably imagine. So is Detective Miller, like he
was telling you, we're not brilliant men by any stretch of
imagination, but when it comes to this stuff, and we're, we're
pretty damn smart. And this is what it boils down
to. And this much time can pass and
something horrible happens in your life that you don't want to
remember. You can put it in a little box
and put it out here and try to keep it away from you.
And it it happens. I have to put horrible things
that happen. I can put it in a little box out
here and just hope that it goes away and that pray that it
doesn't come out because I've seen some some terrible things
I. Can imagine and.
Here's what I think, and you know what I think may not matter
to you, but it's from the heart. This is what I think.
I think that you're not an evil person.
I don't think you're an evil person.
I've heard about your work history.
You know, I know all that stuff. I know you're a dependable
person, a hard working man. I think on this one night, this
one time, for whatever reason, with some demon inside you, you
made a mistake with the fact is, the fact is there here.
Here's what here's what how we look at it.
You know I'm about to retire. You know I I know he told you
he's got a young daughter. We want, we want to know where
this baby's at. We want to know where she's at
or. Her No, I can't help you.
I don't understand any of this. Can I ask you something?
Sir. Why did why did you tell your
wife that, that the FBI had given you a polygraph and you
passed? She just told us that he said
that. No, I told her that y'all had
gave me a polygons, but it's excuse me for something
altogether different for the trustee deal.
I got 2 polygons that day. OK, so you think she just
misunderstood? Probably.
Yeah. I've told her the FBI was in my
house. They shut my house down.
Garage shed. Hold up.
Well, we're we're and the only time.
This comes up is when she asked about it and they choose me like
the anniversary because there's newspaper people or television
people are knocking on the door and you still live here.
Do you know, blah, blah, blah. And that's it.
The law still lives around here, that's you live there longest
right of. Course I know.
There's no one that still lives there.
That's there back when you were there.
Well, Tony, after we need your help.
You having that one? We do must move 3 packs a day
more fortunately for me, I, I, I if I could help you, I would
help you. Well, I don't like sitting in
this situation. I don't, I don't like there's
no, there's no look good for me at all.
And I've, I've done research on, you know, what happened at when
he was in Walters and stuff like that.
And I've listened to. Part of the interview.
Well, here this morning and is there a chance that maybe you
blacked out and did it that you went over there and did
something you said, you said something about you don't think
you sleepwalk. No, I've just built in some
areas. OK, I mean, that's going to be a
sarcastic. Well, take a look at a good
point. I mean, from what we've read
from the report that happened, Aaron Walters, that was a pretty
horrific deal that happened and it kind of shows that it's
somebody that can lose it or whatever.
Kid, that was drugs and I still pay for that.
That'll never go away. Well, what it what it comes into
is this, you know, we've had a lot of people in this room and
interviewed a lot of people about stuff similar to this,
unfortunately. And there's two kinds of people
we deal with. There's the people that when we
prevent present the evidence that we got and they know
they've been found out and they stand up and take.
Some type of responsibility and move on.
Or they deny it. And to me, that's the folks that
are really evil. And I just didn't get the
feeling that that was you. But I guess I could be wrong.
It wouldn't be the first. Time.
I don't, I can't. I can't explain it.
And I'm still sitting here. Thank you, April Fool.
Y'all come up with April Fool? That's.
Yeah, well, that's not this serious.
You know, there's some, there's some April Fool.
Where, where, where do you think if if someone was to, if
someone, the person that did do this, where would they take her
and dump her at if they would? Couldn't do you.
I mean, I watch all the cop shows and stuff like that or
what I do watch and there's there's no telling so.
You, you bring up. Cop shows so I'm sure my.
Wife. Likes cop shows?
Yeah, you've watched a lot of CFI and stuff like that.
So, you know, and most of the this classes and all this
research and stuff I've done with, you know, missing children
where they're usually located at they're located, you know, or
the suspect lives 2 doors down, 3 Doors Down there in the same
neighborhood, you know, So I mean, you hit the profile, you
know, your past history shows that, you know, but.
That's a little struck against me, no?
But like I said, people change Tony.
People change. You talk about your home life,
how you grew up. I grew up with a single mom that
raised 9 kids by herself, and I'm about the only one that I'm
about the only one out of my family that that's graduated
school that has a successful job.
All right, you know, people tell me you can't do that.
You're a piece of crap. And I showed them that it's not
about anything like that. I was.
Not sexually. Molested or abused, I was hated.
But I found good in this. You know, he taught me some shit
and that's helped me, you know, go through my life.
I know some stuff. I know carpentry, I know
mechanics, you know I accustomed.
To to this. Day because he hated me but Jack
of all trades that didn't that didn't turn me into a monster.
I hate it and. I don't think you're a monster.
I think this just one time something happened and it went a
little too far and something had that, you know actually.
I'm in shock is what I am like I said I am still thinking y'all
going to sleep Yeah but this is just a a joke or not a joke but
trying to get me to say something or.
I'm not, I'm not hearing a lot. I'm not lying to you about
anything. Like I told you from the get go,
you know, my job was to investigate this case and to go
out and I guarantee that there were probably 30-40 people that
I went out and I got swabs from just like you doing that today.
No, it's shocked. I don't know what to say.
Well, you're coming here. The last person.
Your last person, if I've heard you're the last person that's
that's your that's your opinion. You're you're the absolute last
person that touched person that with other things that we have
and that we know and that we've learned.
I mean, I'm going to be honest with you.
This guy especially has been pushing to allow him to be able
to talk to you and, and try to make some sense about it and
give you an opportunity to tell the truth.
I was, heck, I was kind of against it, to be honest with
you, because you don't get that kind of scientific evidence
every day. That is absolutely the most
astronomical thing that you could imagine.
It's about like every grain of sand on the whole planet Earth
and or the odds that it's not you that were the last person
that touched her panties. That was the last person that
went through that window. The the odds are they're
incomprehendible. So is that is that the way it's
going to be coming? Is it going to be?
Is it going to be a little where to till the day you die?
You're going to. They're telling my is this?
Yeah. Well, I can tell you.
I can tell you this. Well, that's fair enough.
I'm not going to argue with you or get into a battle with you.
I can tell you this. Everything that we were going to
do here today and everything that you were going to tell us
is going to go into a report. It can either be a report saying
that he manned up and had some remorse or it can be that it's
that evil person that we were afraid of and that's up to you.
That is total black ball is totally in your court, but it's
going to read one way or another.
And that's up to you because it goes from us to the District
Attorney and then to the court. So it can, it can read how you
want, but giving you this opportunity, that was this
gentleman's idea. And and I gave him that
opportunity and I'll be able to go home and sleep tight tonight
knowing that I gave you that shot.
And if you don't want to take that shot, then that's fine.
And I, I can't force you to, Tony, all, all we want is the
truth and all, all we want is to to finally be able to let a
mother bury her child. That's what we want properly.
We wanted to be able, we wanted to be able to bury your sterile
tongue. I know you always think I'm
guilty, but I know I'm not, so I don't.
I don't know what else to. Tell you I'm still.
In shock, I don't. I mean, you're in shock because
because it's been 17 years and you thought it was over.
That's why you're in shock. No, I'm shocked about it.
You got my blood. And how's that possible?
I, I can't tell you that, but I can tell you that it is
absolute. It is absolute.
There is no maybe, there is no, there's a possibility.
It is absolutely 100%. Hey, do you want to?
Take a break and give them. Some time to think about what we
talked about. Do you have any more?
Do you have any more to smoke? Not yet.
Go ahead, go ahead and smoke for a minute.
Let us go out here and talk. Once you get your head together,
we'll give you more opportunity to to think about what I just
said, OK? None.
All right, I'll ask you again.
Where's she at? OK, I want you to understand
too, and you probably already know this.
You're not leaving this room. Down I understand that.
And you understand that it's probably going to be quite a
while that you're going to spend in jail.
Just because we don't have a body doesn't mean that we're not
going to charge you with anything.
I've got enough evidence against you.
No, go ahead. Tell me there's there's the next
one in that real family judge and it's for murder.
And judges don't sign up unless there's probable cause.
And to be fair to you, OK, to be fair to you, you're not going
anywhere. You're you're being charged with
murder. And here's the bill.
I want you to remember right now we're interviewing every one of
your family members. You can probably hear it in the
next stream. We're already at your house.
We will have backhoes, ground penetrating sonar, cadaver dogs,
the whole 9 yards. We was laughing about that
yesterday. What's so funny about that?
That. If y'all were to ever go in our
backyard, well, I got dogs and cats and that's everywhere.
That backyard I went to, heaven was nothing.
Nothing about that. It was watching something on
Tuesday. Like great barium.
Or animal show. Well, so we're not going to find
and and this is your opportunity because I mean.
You ain't going to find first and a half field in my backyard.
Or on your property, anywhere. Where do I find her?
I don't know. Did you black out and you took
her somewhere, Doctor? I didn't get her.
Who did well? What we're going to do is we're
just going to we're going to leave it with you're that person
that has no remorse. And that's the way the report's
going to read, because what I'm seeing from you is you could
careless if we ever find her and.
You could. Careless.
Just just figure it out for me. Turn around for me.
The chance on your back. Relax.
And arrest for murder. Kidnap Kirsten Hatfield.