1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,000 You know when Meredith goes to the hotel and so like sitting, 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,440 she's really upset she doesn't get a bath. 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,240 Yeah, I'd be upset too. Think, you know, I was like 4 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,280 interesting because I would be upset. 5 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,160 Yeah, what if you have a bad pain day and you need a bath? 6 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,120 I need to mermaid ASAP. Yeah, like if I had a bath in my 7 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,120 room and you didn't, I would give you my room. 8 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,600 I would just ask that if I did have a bad pain day that you'd 9 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:20,960 let me have a bath. Exactly. 10 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,800 But I would feel like your need might be greater than mine right 11 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,360 now for sure. I don't know. 12 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,200 Who knows what pain days are, Yeah? 13 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,360 How do we quantify things? Numbers are tricky. 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,560 Hey, I'm Hyper Robot, and if you're listening to this, I'm 15 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,000 guessing you might be too. Hi, my name is Alex and I'm your 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,880 Hyper Robot host. And today we have on Hannah 17 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,400 again. Again, Hannah, thank you for 18 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:50,280 being here. No. 19 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,440 Problem. Welcome back. 20 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,520 How was your sleep last night? Oh, about half as good as the 21 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,880 night before, but weirdly I tried to listen podcasts in the 22 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,280 morning and then I got really engaged so I gave up. 23 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,000 Did you listen to help on my for mobile? 24 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,440 I listened to. There's only one right answer 25 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,760 here and the doors there. Maybe not. 26 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,120 No. That would have been too 27 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,000 intellectually stimulating. That's my answer. 28 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,400 Some compliments, you know, it's really interesting because that 29 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,160 brings us into kind of like the podcast as a whole, because the 30 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,920 first two seasons, if we call it that, the first, you know, 31 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:23,720 episodes that exist right now, they're me kind of just info 32 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,760 dumping, like I think a topic like pregnancy or intimacy or, I 33 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,320 don't know, fitness and stuff. And I just like, will sit in 34 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:34,280 front of the camera set up with all my own really stressful and 35 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,600 just like be like, here's everything I think you need to 36 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:37,880 know. You did it in your own flat, 37 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,000 didn't you? Yes, Yeah. 38 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,840 It was low budget. Cat disasters all the time 39 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,800 though. I so I had to do it when they 40 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,720 were sleeping. So for listeners who might not 41 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,720 know, I live in a tiny apartment in London and I have two very 42 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,600 athletic and very large cats. Cleo talks using buttons, so it 43 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,000 was a concern that she would be pressing the buttons. 44 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,160 Her first word was laser for anyone who cares about my cat 45 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,320 children, quite frankly. But yeah, she, she luckily kept 46 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,160 quiet when I was recording for the most part. 47 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,440 But there may have been some food involved with that. 48 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,320 Yeah. We're going back to the podcast. 49 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,080 Thank you for the compliment about it being intellectually 50 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,800 stimulating this first. And it wasn't an excuse at all. 51 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,840 It's all right. I won't judge you, but the first 52 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,560 two seasons were really very like fact based. 53 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,160 Now for this season, I've kind of done something a little bit 54 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,320 different. I wanted to bring some different 55 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,000 voices on here. I wanted to talk about some of 56 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,720 the conversations that I get to have with wonderful people such 57 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,200 as yourself. And I wanted to do in a way, 58 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,920 it's like conversational and just kind of easy. 59 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,720 Yeah. To listen to because life is 60 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:44,720 hard. Yeah. 61 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,160 And sometimes we just need it. Chill vibes. 62 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,640 We'll put some studies in the descriptions. 63 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:53,040 If you want factual stuff. There are resources that you can 64 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,720 check out if you want specific numbers and references. 65 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,560 But what I really wanted to focus on is the the real 66 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,840 experience of all of this. And you very kindly interviewed 67 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,640 me for the first episode of the season. 68 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:08,480 So it's all been filmed out of order, but the first episode of 69 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,680 the season you interviewed me and I talked a lot about kind of 70 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,160 my personal experience. And then after that episode, I 71 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,960 interviewed my coach. Right now I'm doing some kind of 72 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,720 personal training exercises with some gymnastics stuff. 73 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,240 And I just felt so anxious last night. 74 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,840 I went home and I was just like, I know that I'm not a typical 75 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,640 person. I know that I'm someone who is 76 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:37,560 not currently having the typical experience right now in this 77 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,760 moment of living with heds. And I'm diagnosed with that. 78 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,160 Now I have that official label, didn't have for a while, but now 79 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,400 I do. And I just felt this awareness 80 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,080 or this pressure or this fear, I guess, of being judged for 81 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,320 talking about what works for me. And I try and be clear and be 82 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,360 like, you know, this might not work for you. 83 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,800 Or actually, I think I say very clearly a lot of the time I'm 84 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,280 like, yeah, I'm like, your body is your body. 85 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,760 My body is my body, you know? And it all comes down to kind of 86 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,920 risk benefit decisions for every individual. 87 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,440 And I do some things that will be higher risk for some people, 88 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,200 some things that have some risk for me, but I make those 89 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,279 decisions on how to really minimize, address or at least 90 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,440 consent to the risks. Of actually understand fully 91 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,320 what you're what experiment you got to sign up to a little bit. 92 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,000 Yeah, and the reality of all this too is like sometimes 93 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,920 things that are like weird or frowned upon help. 94 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,080 So we have you on today to talk about you, and we will get to 95 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,000 that in a second. But it's kind of like a side 96 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,120 going into that because I know we've both had kind of atypical 97 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:44,040 experiences in some ways. I found, for example, going back 98 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,400 to kind of my gymnastics lessons, which, again, sound 99 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,680 much more glamorous than they are. 100 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,680 It's really not. I am not Simone Biles. 101 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,920 I am like lying on the floor trying my best to feel things in 102 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:54,920 my body. Yeah. 103 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,080 But sometimes I do hang off bars and and I got into kind of 104 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,280 hanging movements even though my shoulders are hyper mobile. 105 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,680 I've never had a dislocation. I've never had profound 106 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,120 instability in the joint. Yes, they sublux. 107 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,760 I thought that everyone's shoulders would like clunk into 108 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,240 place each night to say like I thought they were my body saying 109 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,040 goodnight to me. Do you get any subluxations when 110 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,720 you're falling asleep? I see this is a thing. 111 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,880 I wouldn't I sometimes you're not sure whether you are 112 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,880 supplicing. I'm not entirely sure but I 113 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,320 certainly remember when I was younger, which has stopped now 114 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,520 thankfully. Was lying down in bed when you 115 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,480 first lie down and my lower spine was in agony. 116 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:47,080 I would say it probably started like early teens and then it 117 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:51,920 stopped probably about 20-4 ish. I don't know why. 118 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,280 I have no idea why. Knock on wood, like. 119 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,000 The Tobias, yes, stays that way, but it was like my spine was 120 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,560 settling and I think it was obviously stretching out in a 121 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,880 certain. Way it'll decompress. 122 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,560 That's why we're taller when you wake up in the morning and it 123 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,120 was still compressing. And some people. 124 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,720 One day you'll be tall. I know if I lie down enough, 125 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,120 maybe I'll get so you're. Still getting growing pains? 126 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:13,440 Do I? I'm joking. 127 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,920 I stopped growing at 12. I was gonna. 128 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,040 Say maybe you will go taller now though I've ranted about growing 129 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,360 pains so many times on this podcast. 130 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,000 I'm not gonna get into it again today, but going back to kind of 131 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,200 the fitness stuff. So I found with my shoulders I 132 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,440 was struggling to do like, you know, people say do body weight 133 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,760 movements, do planks. Yeah, planks would give me 134 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,480 agony. Even theraband exercises like 135 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,840 external rotation ones, I would struggle with them. 136 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,720 But hanging off a bar felt comfortable. 137 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,600 And for me, sometimes doing things in an atypical way is 138 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,600 what served me well. So for building this upper body 139 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,040 strength by focusing on doing pull ups, you know, and being 140 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,360 thoughtful. So again, my my wonderful coach, 141 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,480 he talks about how we're working on beat swings and kipping. 142 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,080 And yeah, I know there's a lot of criticism of like people who 143 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,880 swing off bars in certain ways when you're very technical about 144 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,480 it and you're focusing on those minute details that we review 145 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,280 videos of me to make sure that I'm getting the exact shape 146 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:07,720 right and tension. It's like an athlete would a. 147 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,960 100%, You know, I like to role play as an athlete. 148 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:11,440 Yeah. That's how I kind of live my 149 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,120 life. But it's, I feel like it's 150 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,640 important to talk about because it's what works for me. 151 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,760 Yeah. But I'm so aware that what works 152 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:19,920 for me. Yeah. 153 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,240 It's not going to work for you right now. 154 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,760 Exactly. Yeah, there's things I would do 155 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,400 that wouldn't work for you at. All 100%. 156 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,560 I mean, I can just about do wash, washing up standing up and 157 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,240 you're like, no. Oh, no, no, Oh, the standing. 158 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,160 I hate it, but I can maintain it a little bit. 159 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,160 But did you think that the hanging would be OK for you? 160 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,960 Did you have an idea going in, or was it more? 161 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,920 I'll give it a bash and see how I do, but carefully. 162 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,480 Yeah, For me, early on, it goes back to that work I did with 163 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,080 athletes initially, kind of learning about movement, which 164 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,720 again, I think everyone in my field needs to have a really 165 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,320 deep exercise base because when you're trying to help people who 166 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,640 are hyper mobile and we know that building muscle and 167 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,000 exercising safely is one of the best things if it's possible and 168 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,560 safe. And if it's not not possible and 169 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,720 not safe for you, don't do it. Yeah, but if it's possible and 170 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,840 safe for you, it's one of the single best things you could do. 171 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,840 So for me, I'm going through my journey of my career and just my 172 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,920 own personal journey. I learned that you can kind of 173 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,840 think of exercise, especially strength building, in terms of 174 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,880 pushing and pulling in different with different joints and in 175 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,920 different directions. So you can push with your upper 176 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,440 body or you can pull right just to breakdown movements in a 177 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,720 really simple way. And I was trying to do planks 178 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,200 and push ups. So I was really trying to do 179 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,840 push ups at the time or press UPS as they call them in the UK. 180 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,240 And I would have so much pain even doing push up. 181 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,880 I'm like, which pronunciation do you do push ups? 182 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,120 They call it in Canada and America. 183 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,200 What do you call it? Press UPS anyways, whatever you 184 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,400 want to call them. I was trying to do these 185 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,000 movements from my knees and I was getting so much pain in my 186 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,560 shoulders. So I then said, and This is why 187 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,120 we we talked last on the, the intro episode. 188 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:55,160 We'll release these two together. 189 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,200 It's a nice little, nice little listening, listening experience 190 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,680 24 hours previous. Previously it wasn't, it was 191 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,840 like less than that. But I realized I couldn't do 192 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,920 pressing movements well and they were hurting me. 193 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,160 So I said, OK, what if I do pulling movements? 194 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,520 I noticed very quickly I didn't have the grip strength to hang 195 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,760 off a bar properly. So I started doing ring rows. 196 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,560 So for listeners who might not know, a ring row refers to 197 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,720 hanging rings off a rig. Again, my wonderful coach, he's 198 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,960 saying rig and I'm like, people might not know what a rig is. 199 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,880 Now do you know what a rig goes? Is it a? 200 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,560 A-frame. Because I only know that because 201 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:35,000 of school gym, OK, Of which I was very strong, but very 202 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,680 clumsy. Yeah, bad times. 203 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,160 I'm excited to talk to you in a SEC because you're as atypical 204 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,720 as I am, to be honest. But yeah, doing. 205 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,440 I would hang off a bar and I could feel it felt nice because 206 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,400 it was giving me kind of space in the joint. 207 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,000 I think people talk so much time about so often about having kind 208 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,400 of too much movement. I initially would think too much 209 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:56,680 space. Oh, bad times. 210 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:01,080 Like some blokes dislocate, but you're kind of it's there's an 211 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,080 intermediate part where like, oh, that's relieving. 212 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:07,720 People with low back pain often find hanging off a bar helpful 213 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,400 or you know, going in a swimming pool or different ways to kind 214 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,280 of decompress. Or the baddest but. 215 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:13,320 The bath? Exactly. 216 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,320 Huge one for me Yeah, a love of that and for the bath like I, 217 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,400 I'm sorry electronics, but they have a short life with me 218 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,080 because I will go in the bath, I will mermaid in the bath. 219 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,840 I will have my computer. Not on your cheap 1 though. 220 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:28,920 Yeah. Are you being safe? 221 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,640 Because we don't want electronics in the bath. 222 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,520 Can I tell you my setup? Yes, you can. 223 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,760 OK, so so safety Alex can put a hard hat on and listen, right? 224 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,240 This is what I do. I the poodle sometimes demands 225 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,640 to to lie on the in the floor next to me because he's a Velcro 226 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,920 dark and he doesn't like being on his own so he will sometimes 227 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,600 wander in that. But it helps the humidity as 228 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,440 well 'cause I leave the door open because I live on my own. 229 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,960 So that's how I say it to myself, right. 230 00:10:56,680 --> 00:11:02,040 So then I purposely got a laundry basket with a flat lid. 231 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,080 It's very important. OK, OK. 232 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,920 And I put a towel underneath the computer or the iPad or 233 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,800 whatever. And then I set my thing up. 234 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,080 The bath is already done. I put a towel over the keyboard, 235 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,680 so the. No steam or water, really. 236 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:20,400 Yeah. Because Real Housewives usually 237 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,640 and I put my little Flamingo LED light on so I don't have the 238 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,680 lights. This is usually a pre pre bed 239 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,080 sort of situation. And so it's like lit up with the 240 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,680 purple glow and then I put housewives on and line my side 241 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,280 because I can line my side without any pain. 242 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,680 I just. You know your comfy position. 243 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,560 And so it's like, yeah, it's. That's what I do. 244 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:41,880 I just, I just mermaid. It's about having your safe, 245 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,760 like you have your own little safe space and your little 246 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:44,920 setup. And when you're having a bad 247 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,600 day, like, you know where to go. Yeah, just like crawl there and 248 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,800 you're like going in the bath. I've set up. 249 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:56,320 I haven't realized I've set up systems, processes and symptoms. 250 00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:58,760 Didn't set those up, they just kind of. 251 00:11:58,920 --> 00:11:59,800 Happened. They just happened. 252 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,560 But yeah, so that's that's my setup. 253 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,080 So you can take inspiration from that. 254 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,320 I love that as you like, but the cats would probably mess with 255 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,040 that. Do you bring 3 beverages? 256 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,160 I no, I shut the cats out. The cats are not allowed in. 257 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 I bring tea, electrolyte beverage, and water. 258 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:18,320 Now this is where I know my limitations because if I have 259 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,480 drinks in the bath they will get dropped. 260 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,280 How have you seen my hands? That's true. 261 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,440 I have like large. Strips you strum from hand to 262 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:28,960 stump jerking. Yeah, we're going to do some 263 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,080 grip. String no, but I'm my 264 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,960 proprioception of my hands is shocking. 265 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,480 Yeah, you have dropped a few things. 266 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,840 I mean we, I mean the Japanese food yesterday. 267 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,360 I didn't probably introduce you to like you are. 268 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,280 So you're my dear friend. You're someone you're someone 269 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,000 I've met through social media. You're someone who, again, just 270 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,960 introduced you properly. You are what I would call a 271 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,840 patient expert. You've you're someone who's gone 272 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,560 through a lot and you know you're not a qualified 273 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,400 healthcare expert or professional or you're not a 274 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,960 medical doctor just like. No fashion, Yeah, neither of us 275 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,480 see in science. No, sorry, no. 276 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,480 Be in science. Oh well. 277 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,440 But bees get. No, but I'm saying that's as far 278 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,400 as it goes. OK, but that's OK. 279 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,200 But this is not medical advice. So I can't remember if I did the 280 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,960 medical disclaimer, but if I didn't do it, I don't think I 281 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,560 did it. If I didn't do it, yeah. 282 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,840 This is not medical advice in any way, shape or form. 283 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,800 Please speak with your healthcare provider, ideally 284 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,840 your medical doctor, and we might swear, say things that are 285 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,400 not appropriate for younger listeners. 286 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,000 So. The mood might take. 287 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,080 Who knows what's going to happen, but going back you're 288 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,560 talking about like your strong grip strength and so on. 289 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,120 So I, as I was going through my fitness journey, I kind of 290 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,320 started to realize, you know, in my case, the importance of grip 291 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,000 strength. I was in my, you know, I was 292 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,040 going through the dark times kind of at the start of my 293 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,320 osteopathy degree and I was like, I want to build grip 294 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,640 strength. It feels good when I pull my 295 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,320 body weight against things. I think because it gave me a way 296 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,920 to feel tension, if that makes sense. 297 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,040 I know it's weird. And most importantly, pressing 298 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,160 was painful. So I was like, if I can't press, 299 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,400 I'm going to pull. And I, yeah, it was literally 300 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,440 just I can't do this. Can I do this? 301 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,520 And it just felt nice. You just went on vibes. 302 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,560 I honestly, I'm such a vibes person, so I will prescribe 303 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,120 exercises for patients and I tell them I'm like, firstly, of 304 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,960 course, if you have any pain, of course, let me know this or 305 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,120 that. But I tell them I'm like, if you 306 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,400 don't like the exercise for any reason, if you just don't like 307 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,800 it because you just don't like it, you don't have to give me an 308 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,880 explanation. There's like a million different 309 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,920 ways to move your body and exercise. 310 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,640 It's my job to support you in that. 311 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,720 Tell me. I will not judge you. 312 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:30,800 I'm one of those people you've seen. 313 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,320 Let me be like this. I'm like, I just don't like 314 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,840 this. I know the vibes are off. 315 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,520 So sometimes you get a bad feeling and you just know. 316 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,400 And just interrupt really quickly because I want to just 317 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,600 say when I can't remember what we're talking. 318 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,080 Again, I apologize to people listening. 319 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,920 I joked with Alex that my hoodie should say, wait, I forgot what 320 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,920 I was saying because that will be me. 321 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,160 But there was something early that we were talking about 322 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,560 finding different ways to kind of engage the muscles and to, 323 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,160 you know, I think the shoulder, you were saying pulling and 324 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,640 pushing in just different ways. I didn't realise this is again, 325 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,840 how little I think about muscles and stuff, which is ideal that 326 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,720 you're my friend now because I can teach me at your workshop. 327 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,600 You're talking about, oh, well, if the patient doesn't like this 328 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,720 movement in this way because just do this. 329 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,120 Well, what I didn't realise you could achieve the same outcome 330 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,960 with certain muscles or whatnot in so many different ways. 331 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,480 Because my experience of physio was always no, there's this one 332 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:30,720 and this is how you do this muscle. 333 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,440 I just thought there's only one way to engage a muscle like 334 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,760 that. Blew my mind. 335 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,560 I think there's two reasons why that happens. 336 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,520 And again, like I tend to treat the whole manual therapy, 337 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,000 rehabilitative exercise professionals, if you call that 338 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,760 physiotherapist, osteopathic and chiropractors. 339 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,120 And yes, I know they're, they are different qualifications. 340 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,840 And there are people who are very, you know, firmly like, oh, 341 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,560 like you have to see a physiotherapist, you have to see 342 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,920 an osteopath or whatever. And some have different 343 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,280 certifications or different areas of specialization than 344 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:00,880 others. For example, I do not do 345 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,680 immediate post surgical rehabilitation. 346 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,480 That needs to be a physiotherapist who's trained in 347 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,360 that way. Or if you need respiratory 348 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,040 physiotherapy, again, I'm not your person. 349 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,360 I'm not trained in that. So there are certain specialties 350 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,400 that have different, I don't know, perks or different 351 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,480 benefits in different ways. But if we look at this 352 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,720 profession as a whole, because people will have muscle and 353 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,480 joint pain and they'll kind of just see someone in this field, 354 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,280 this type of field. And what I will say is that 355 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,520 people encounter the experience you had for a couple of reasons 356 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,560 of kind of being told this is how you do this. 357 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,960 One, it's the healthcare provider, the musculoskeletal 358 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,400 expert. It worked for them. 359 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,960 And they're projecting their experience onto the patient. 360 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,600 And their brain cannot cope with the fact that something that 361 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,480 worked for them. Yeah, might not work for 362 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,720 something else. They've had AI would imagine had 363 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,400 a patient who was a real like made them feel really good about 364 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,000 their turn around. Like no this this method works. 365 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,240 Yeah, you can have bias. From your experience, there's so 366 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,120 many types of bias you can have. It could also just be that their 367 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,800 knowledge base isn't that deep. Maybe they aren't particularly 368 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,720 well versed in exercises for this joint or this thing we're 369 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,280 trying to address. You know, maybe they're maybe 370 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,079 their depth of exercise knowledge is not that great. 371 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,040 I really think that the best people in this field are people 372 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,400 who generally are going to have some personal experience with 373 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,880 exercise because my goal is to get people out of the treatment 374 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,280 room and ideally working with, you know, coaches or personal 375 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,520 trainers or getting into that fitness setting, maybe even 376 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,720 managing themselves in a exercise base process. 377 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,720 Yeah, 100%. Like they're they're alive. 378 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,000 By themselves. Look, being in a fire thing, 379 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,680 maybe it's like fun, but it's more fun to not be in an 380 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,240 appointment. Like I enjoy leaving the clinic 381 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,320 room and I want that for my patients as well. 382 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,840 So I think sometimes they they potentially they just, they 383 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,520 don't quite have that base of knowledge that helps to bridge 384 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,640 the gap between what the patient needs to do in the real world to 385 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,120 manage it and what they what they can do for the patient. 386 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,440 I think we've reached that like limiting point. 387 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,240 Sometimes it's a clinical setting, it kind of falls apart, 388 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,800 yeah. Some people, because the patient 389 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,520 isn't supported in knowing how to progress it or how to modify 390 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,760 there, you know, they might not know like you, oh, if this 391 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,800 hurts, I can do it this way or something. 392 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,520 They might not have that expertise and I think as well 393 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,160 there's a bias sometimes from looking at things from a strict 394 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,360 evidence base. So there are some exercises that 395 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,440 get researched more than others. There are some exercise 396 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,480 protocols that get researched more than others. 397 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000 There are some people who put exercises together. 398 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,200 Call it a protocol. Again, it's not a protected 399 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,400 term. Anyone can say it. 400 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,160 I think I have some exercises online that I've. 401 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,120 Called Come up with a man you can make a bath. 402 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,760 Time practical, you have a bath time protocol. 403 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,480 So I think sometimes people, they also get this kind of bias 404 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,560 that just because one study found that on like 10 people 405 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,800 that this exercise protocol outperformed doing nothing 406 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,360 there, then like this is the way that we rehab this. 407 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,440 Very black and white. To be clear, with surgical 408 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,000 interventions, that is one of the times where it is actually 409 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,440 quite black and white, because we can do studies where we're 410 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,320 looking at the similar patients who've had the same surgery, the 411 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,960 same injury, and then look at how they progress and it kind of 412 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,600 controls. Some of those variables, yeah, 413 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,600 the variables. But patients are hypermobile. 414 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,400 They're as variable as they come, I know. 415 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,480 So it's, I, I, I tend to look at more what works for the 416 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,480 individual patient versus what does a specific protocol say. 417 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,720 Again, it's it's good to look at research 100%. 418 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,520 It's a good base to start, isn't it? 419 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,880 It's the foundation of clinical decision making. 420 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,680 But from there, the best outcomes come down to like, OK, 421 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,200 this patient, this doesn't feel quite right. 422 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,000 Like I've had patients where I give them an exercise. 423 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,080 I think it'll be great for them. And then they're like, Alex, I 424 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,920 don't know what's going on, but it just doesn't feel right. 425 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,920 And they feel apologetic. And I'm just like, I'm like, no, 426 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,480 like, thank you for telling me that. 427 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,800 Let's see if we can find something better. 428 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,880 I think last thing I'll say and then I'll stop talking. 429 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,920 We'll talk about you. But it's like, I think people 430 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,040 sometimes they're so OK with accepting mediocrity. 431 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,400 There's a lot of complacency that comes, I agree with. 432 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,000 This. Yeah, Yeah. 433 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,520 No, go on. No, people, people they don't 434 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,960 have this drive to get the best or most optimum clinical outcome 435 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,120 possible. And again it's. 436 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,800 Good. Oh, you mean the clinicians are? 437 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:08,760 I mean, the clinicians. You told me what you were 438 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,320 thinking in a SEC, but I mean the clinicians. 439 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:11,040 Yeah. What? 440 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,240 Were you thinking? No, we've talked about this 441 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,680 before. I mean, it's, it's difficult 442 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,480 when particularly in NHS, like it's been so squeezed and people 443 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,720 are just trying to survive from their jobs that they're, that. 444 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,600 I mean, we're the same opinion. Like they're just trying to 445 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,200 survive. Yeah, no shade to that. 446 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,640 I could not deal with like 10 minutes with a patient. 447 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,680 Like I could do my work. I would feel depressed, like I 448 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,880 would be really happy. And you, but you get this thing 449 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,000 called compassion burnout and I absolutely understand how it how 450 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,680 it the NHS, unfortunately at the moment is the perfect breeding 451 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,840 around for compassion burnout. And the patients, the ones that 452 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,200 suffer because sometimes, like, you know, I've had a not not 453 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,440 I've had a hard time, but I have not had a tenth of the 454 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,440 experience of some people that I've talked to. 455 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,680 So relatively speaking, I've had a, you know, a good experience 456 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,080 it, but I've had terrible outcomes. 457 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,240 And the problem with mediocre care is that you are, you 458 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,240 finally get the courage up to tackle something that's been 459 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,280 bothering you that you feel insecure about, that it's 460 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,360 sucking all the joy out of life sometimes. 461 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,040 And it could just be we're just talking about physio here, but 462 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,920 same goes for any other kind of health issue, but particularly 463 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:34,160 physio because it's so physical that sometimes when you've been 464 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,800 out of physical activity and maybe you've put on weight 465 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,800 because guess what, not moving means that it's pretty hard to 466 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,280 keep the weight down. Or just being in pain. 467 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,600 In pain, not, you know, you can't sleep, you know, blah, 468 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,760 blah, blah. You go to the physio and you're 469 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,320 like, right, let's do this. Like let's do it. 470 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:54,280 I'm I'm so up for you. Get there and you get even 471 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,920 mediocre is, you know, a bit disappointing. 472 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,080 And if it doesn't work, you can't course correct because 473 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,520 they say, well, you've had your physio. 474 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,920 We've done all we can. You just have to go on 475 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,080 painkillers now. It's very demotivating, but it 476 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,040 also compounds over time, doesn't it? 477 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,160 When you have less than mediocre experiences with someone who is 478 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,800 struggling with compassion, it unfortunately comes out in the 479 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,280 patient sometimes and it's really difficult because you 480 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,280 don't know what the parameters are. 481 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,520 You don't know what good care looks like compared to mediocre 482 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,760 or poor care. I would have no idea. 483 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,720 I mean, maybe would now, but I wouldn't have done before. 484 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,600 Yeah, it's, it's hard when you you know, you're, you have to 485 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,480 because if you're some with chronic illness or disability, 486 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,920 you, you are forced to interact with the healthcare system, but 487 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,440 you're not an expert in the healthcare that yeah. 488 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,800 You can't quality control Yeah a. 100% you can't quality. 489 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,720 Control. You have no idea. 490 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,080 Sometimes the. Patients will tell me things and 491 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,800 I'm just like, yeah, that sounds not quite right based on based 492 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,760 on what I understand. Yeah, I know it's it's it's 493 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,680 difficult. And then the challenging thing 494 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,520 for people who have chronic health issues is they often, you 495 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,480 know, I remember the day I put on Instagram, I work with 496 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,880 complex chronic treatment resistant injuries. 497 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,000 I didn't really know I was that was code for hypermobile 498 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,240 patients, but that's when I just started seeing everyone is hyper 499 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,280 mobile. But when you're dealing with a 500 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,120 challenging clinical situation, that person's had neck pain for 501 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:18,920 like 10 years or whatever, you have to treat it like it is 502 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,600 something that you care about extremely deeply. 503 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,120 Like you have to become so. And again, there's a healthy 504 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,440 level of compassion and a healthy level of clinical drive, 505 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,600 but you have to be so thoughtful, motivated, precise, 506 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,760 technically skilled, you know, able to adapt your care to that 507 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,840 patient, if that, you know, especially with my patients, 508 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,440 sometimes they have good days, bad days, injuries will happen, 509 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,040 subluxation, this and that. And you have to be so on it. 510 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,880 And it's not easy, but it's what these patients need. 511 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,960 It's what has to happen because there are patients who, you 512 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,440 know, they have, like me in my first experience of manual 513 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,600 therapy and exercise, which happened to be with a physio, 514 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,600 but I had a negative outcome. I didn't get better. 515 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,720 And I was like, wow, this is stupid. 516 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,800 The exercises made my symptoms worse. 517 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,040 Manual therapy didn't nothing. The, you know, other treatments 518 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,720 they did with like different machines and whatnot did 519 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,960 nothing. They've told me it's in my head. 520 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:12,680 There's nothing. Yeah. 521 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,840 So after this I'm done. And you assume that they've 522 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,400 they've whipped out every single technique and method they can 523 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,480 think of and that, well, I'm the problem, I'm not treatable. 524 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,280 Absolutely. And she told me, and this is 525 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,440 something again, I'll tell you how I handled it in a SEC, but 526 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,680 this physio told me that I would have to live with shoulder pain 527 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,160 for the rest of my life. And I thought being 16 or 17, 528 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,200 this was like the word from like, God, I'm like, this person 529 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,440 has told me this, yes, this is my fate. 530 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,480 And I didn't realize this was just some physiotherapist in 531 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,680 London, ON who maybe wasn't having the best day. 532 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,440 Maybe it was frustrating her as a patient, I don't know. 533 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,200 But it's wow. I didn't know how to interpret 534 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,200 that because I thought I was condemned. 535 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,720 There's anyone way to interpret it? 536 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,560 Yeah, she she, I mean, not to bag on her, but she left no roof 537 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,600 or any hope at all. And she should be. 538 00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,040 Making bag on her. Own. 539 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:04,160 It's a Really, it was. It's a a very harmful thing to 540 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,440 tell a patient. It's devastating, yeah. 541 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,120 And I just had this quiet acceptance and I just got used 542 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,720 to living with chronic pain. It's only through chance that I 543 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,720 ended up having another encounter with a manual 544 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,200 therapist to help me with an injury. 545 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,520 And I was like, holy. Cow, but that could have been 546 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,160 lifelong. Literally her words could have 547 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,400 meant you have a lifelong issue. Oh, I should not be as well as I 548 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,280 am today. I should not be working in this 549 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,200 field like there's I I just would be shocked if, if I like 550 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,960 if 16 year old 17 year old me could see 33 year old me. 551 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,080 They would be like, this is wild. 552 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,120 So this is crazy. And even in your 20s, when you 553 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,760 stuck up with it, the neck and the migraine. 554 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,040 Yeah, the dark, the dark. Like if you, I just wish we 555 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,200 could have flashed forward like to a period where things did get 556 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,040 better just so you had that hope. 557 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,600 Oh, man, I wish. Yeah, it's. 558 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,160 Yeah. And it's great. 559 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,440 It's wild how these, like, early experiences, they really affect 560 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,760 how you approach healthcare. So because I've been told 561 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,480 absolutely, you know, programs you. 562 00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,320 Yeah. You have. 563 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,320 Oh, in this family, we have funny tummies. 564 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,080 As you know, we have to deal with all these things. 565 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,200 Your shoulder pain, you'll live with it your whole life. 566 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,840 Or your wrist pain, you have to live with it your whole life. 567 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,880 When I had those serious headaches, which in hindsight, 568 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,600 I've never thought about this before, but I really should have 569 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,840 spoken to a doctor about them. I was just like, OK, cool. 570 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,160 This is just another way my body's failing. 571 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,440 Yeah, Oh well. And because of my mom who died 572 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,880 from cancer, I'm like, at least I'm not dying from cancer. 573 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,280 Yeah, but it gives you a completely out of. 574 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,640 I can't think of the word it. Negates your whole experience. 575 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,480 You don't have the parameters. Yeah. 576 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,760 Like, and you think, wow, it's not cancer. 577 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,200 So I'm doing really well. Yeah. 578 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,960 And that's what society tells you as well, actually. 579 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,480 I think, I think people have a hard time accepting, like, 580 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,400 different things are allowed to be difficult in different ways. 581 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,920 You know, I wasn't in luckily I wasn't in like immediate mortal 582 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,480 peril from my, you know, really horrible headaches and, you 583 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:54,920 know, trigeminal nerve pain and this and that. 584 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,800 But it was not, it was a quality of life that I'm scared. 585 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,360 Like that's my one of my biggest trays of having to experience 586 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:02,520 again. Yeah, to be honest. 587 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,400 Yeah. Hannah, we've talked about kind 588 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,280 of my weird fitness stuff and anxiety. 589 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,960 Can we talk about like, bean soup as well? 590 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,520 We kind of frame the rest of the episode. 591 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,760 Soup. I have the You made me look it 592 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:13,200 up. I have. 593 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,000 It here it's such a satisfying phrase as well. 594 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,960 I just like it. We're going to make bean super 595 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,000 thing again. What year was bean soup from? 596 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,280 It was this year. This year, cool. 597 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,560 I mean the freshest social media updates on here. 598 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,840 No, no one will believe that we're cosplaying as early 20s on 599 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,360 TikTok. Exactly, exactly. 600 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,600 I got the baggy jeans and whatever. 601 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,720 OK bean soup theory describes the oops the what about me 602 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,640 effect where people struggle to understand concepts not directly 603 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,840 applicable to them in instead demanding that condo be tailored 604 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,480 to their specific situation. I think it sounds about right. 605 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,000 It's like you said, there was this person, this creator made a 606 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,040 bean soup. Yeah. 607 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,520 And then people got upset. Like So what do people say in 608 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,840 the comments? This I I haven't looked into it 609 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,360 fully, but I just I I I saw the video and I saw I probably saw a 610 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:04,280 stitch of the video. To tell you the truth, I think 611 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,720 it I did and it just spoke to me. 612 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,160 It just because it was this creator who was like again, I 613 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,320 apologize for this completely irritable, but so I remember she 614 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,000 was like oh hey guys like you know this is my bean soup that I 615 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,720 take I think around my period because I struggle with low iron 616 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,600 levels and beans have got loads of good iron she. 617 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,160 Just likes her beans. Yeah, just, I mean, she really 618 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,400 likes beans. Bean soup. 619 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,320 This is my recipe, didn't it? Apparently all of the comments 620 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,760 were like, what if you don't like beans? 621 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,800 Yeah, I don't really like beans. I'm gonna say this. 622 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,320 Can't eat be I mean I'm fod mapping top yeah sipo so beans 623 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,440 bad news, yeah. Bad news, Beans. 624 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:43,880 We're not having beans on the show. 625 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,040 But like, yeah, people were like, what if you don't like 626 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,320 beans, blah blah blah. And the one that kind of cracked 627 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,400 me up a bit was what if you don't like beans? 628 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,720 What can you substitute it with? Everyone Like beans? 629 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,080 It's beans. You can't substitute beans. 630 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,240 Yeah. It's like, and again, it's okay 631 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,960 to ask questions like yeah, and I'm sure that she probably did a 632 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,520 really nice reply and said that you can have Carrot super. 633 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,080 And actually have no idea and. We'll just say that she did. 634 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,360 The iron and the beans that she was like doing it for. 635 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,120 So I don't know anyway. This is difficult, but like The 636 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,560 thing is, it's hard for every piece of content and every 637 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,400 episode of this podcast to reflect every persons 638 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,840 experience. And we can't like caveat every 639 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,760 single thing you say because you can't think of every single 640 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,720 caveat ever. No, and then I go hide in a 641 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,480 closet and like just never talk ever again. 642 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,640 My brain. No, my little pea brain. 643 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,320 We can't do this bean brain. So anyways, if we say something 644 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,720 or if I say something in a later episode the seasons, that's not 645 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,280 for you. It doesn't mean that I don't 646 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,680 care about you. It doesn't mean that we won't 647 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,240 talk about things in a future season. 648 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,040 I want to have more people on with different health issues. 649 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,280 You know, this season has kind of been like, it's not the Alex 650 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,360 Show as much as the first two seasons, but there still is a 651 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,360 little bit of me. And, you know, right now how I 652 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,360 manage my health is different. But it's important because there 653 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,160 might be some people right now living their best life in the 654 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,800 gym who hear my episode and maybe think like, hey, I have 655 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,840 some chronic neck pain or some gut issues. 656 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,120 I wonder if I could have the same thing as this person 657 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,280 talking, you know, So it's like as much as the chronic illness 658 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,000 and disabled community is very important, the people who, you 659 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,880 know, we want to keep functioning as well as possible, 660 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,720 they're also really important. So everyone's experience is 661 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,760 important. Exactly. 662 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,440 And we're just chatting about our own experience. 663 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,760 A lot of time anyway. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot. 664 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaking of chatting about experiences, we spoke before the 665 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,440 show, but kind of what what we talk about the most and one 666 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,880 thing that we talk about a lot is our kind of bodies and how 667 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,320 they've affected our access to healthcare or perceptions about 668 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,320 healthcare. Can you tell me a little bit 669 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,800 about your experience with that? Yeah, I suppose it's a society 670 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,720 as a whole, isn't it? How society sees you as a, a 671 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,160 chronic ill person or someone who just struggles physically 672 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,920 sometimes. And the medical setting is, is a 673 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,600 reflection of society, isn't it? So there's an awful lot of 674 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,280 biases, you know, 10s of thousands of biases, but there 675 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,720 tends to be some big biases that have worked against me 676 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,200 particularly. And because, you know, I do have 677 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,760 HEDS and I'm hyper mobile, there tends to be one picture of 678 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:27,280 somebody who has the issues that I have that has made getting 679 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,360 care very difficult and it's delayed me massively. 680 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,760 Have you had a doctor comment on your height? 681 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,160 Because I know you're what what? How tall are you for viewers 682 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,640 just 5252, I'm 510. The classic like HEDSHSU, what 683 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,760 people think of and by the way, there is no look, I want to be 684 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,440 clear for anyone listening, I've had patients and it breaks my 685 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,800 heart, but they think that because they're not white that 686 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,200 they can't have. This I know I was upset. 687 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,360 By that. But if they've been told that, 688 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,840 they I'm sure I've heard people saying they were told that. 689 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,680 Well, we've talked about how there aren't many people who are 690 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,400 in this space online who are not white, who are creators and 691 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,240 influencers in that. And those are like awkward 692 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,640 words, but there aren't many non, there's not much non white 693 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,320 representation. And it's huge because then you 694 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,240 just, you look and you think it doesn't apply to me because all 695 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,640 the people who are talking about it, they don't look like you. 696 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,080 And that's a very reasonable thing. 697 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,680 So yeah, it's in terms of kind of the classic appearance it 698 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,760 tends to be, at least on the social media sphere. 699 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,080 And I do think that influences what healthcare providers may 700 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,440 be, if you think this as well, pale people with who are tall 701 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,480 and usually kind of like as skinny as like the classic like 702 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,400 you'll see people like that you are 5 foot one or five foot two. 703 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,640 Sorry, forgive me. I can't afford to lose an. 704 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,400 Inch but. You can interrupt. 705 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,960 Me anytime. Because tragically, a few weeks 706 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:57,320 ago my mum actually announced that she's lost an inch of 707 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,240 height. I was like worried for a time. 708 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,960 I. Said so no wonder I feel like 709 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,880 gigantic next to my mum now. But yeah, those dark days will 710 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,040 come for me. They're coming for us all and. 711 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,280 You're 5-10. You don't. 712 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,560 You can afford to lose an inch. It would help you, but in my 713 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,920 space your bed is small. I need to shrink a little bit. 714 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,320 I'm otherwise I have to buy a longer bed. 715 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,320 But yeah, back to serious stuff. So you're 5 foot 2 and you don't 716 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,520 look like the typical HEDSHSD person that we see. 717 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,960 And again, there is no look in case you need to hear it again, 718 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,920 but the. Stereotype online, particularly. 719 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,320 Yeah, the online stereotype. Yeah, what kind of some 720 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,160 healthcare providers think of? Unfortunately, I hit I I do hit 721 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,680 some stereotypes, definitely. Can you tell me about those 722 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:46,760 white? Yeah. 723 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:47,840 Real white? Yeah. 724 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,680 Female. Female. 725 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,600 Yeah. White. 726 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,280 Biologically female? Yeah. 727 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,120 What else? Young looking ish. 728 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:03,240 Yeah, we were talking about. I young, you know, I am younger 729 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,200 looking, so I've been told. Oh, of course, Grandma hands. 730 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,400 What is the grandma hands thing like? 731 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,000 Do I have grandma hands? No, you have a weird. 732 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,719 I have like baby hounds. Yeah, you have, But you have the 733 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,639 knuckle indentation things. It's apparently the sign of 734 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,639 hyper mobility. Well, it makes sense because the 735 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:23,679 joints can go into a hyper extension. 736 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,639 Are you? You're possibly more hyper. 737 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,440 Yeah, they have some hair. Oh well, mine goes right back 738 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,080 here. I won't do it. 739 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,840 Yeah, we don't do it. That was my plan to check. 740 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,880 Yeah, can you do the thumb touching thing? 741 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,760 I used to be able to. Yeah, they stiffen up. 742 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,280 Minor stiffening as well. Don't, don't. 743 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,520 No, I'm not going to do it to hurt. 744 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,360 Don't you go face yourself, Stand down, stand down and. 745 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:41,920 Safety. Seriously here? 746 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,480 Like there, Yeah, but I used to be able to touch. 747 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, with effort. And they stiffen up a lot in 748 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,440 your 30s. And this that goes to there that 749 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,080 just about hurts that I used to it used to go back. 750 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,400 To all the way back yeah it's it's well, but going back to 751 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,880 kind of so you fit some so yeah, stereotypes. 752 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,480 White female, I don't know, there's probably couples that 753 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,680 have forgotten, but but as we've talked about before, I, I always 754 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,920 knew that was muscly. I'm from, you know, fairly musty 755 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,080 family, but on both sides. I mean, my mom's not overly 756 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,760 musty, but can I? Contextualize a little bit your 757 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,720 family's all like quite compact and build and sturdy like even 758 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,760 you know, like your your dad, for example, he's relatively 759 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,000 like he forgiven his, his age. He's like a relatively 760 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,040 physically capable person. Is that OK to say? 761 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,040 He's like, Oh yeah, he's like a strong looking guy, but he's 762 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,280 just very, he's not lanky. He's. 5 foot 10, is he? 763 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,280 Yeah. And I think that, I mean, again, 764 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,760 he's probably shrunk. Sorry Dad, but he used to be 765 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,240 used to be 5 foot 10 and you know, boy, he was a rugby 766 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,080 player, typical rugby player. Yeah, they resound. 767 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,760 Yeah, not a beefed up rugby player, but you know. 768 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,400 Just compact and sturdy. Yeah, very, very sturdy. 769 00:35:52,400 --> 00:36:00,960 I mean, yeah, like my, my, my, my uncle and my mum's side 770 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,840 would, he would always comment on my dad's forearms if they're 771 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:07,960 in the pub or something. Yeah. 772 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,240 Like you got to calm down, Pete. You got to, you got to not. 773 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:12,280 You see, you're holding all your tension in your muscles. 774 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,240 He's like, I am, I am calm. I'm sat in the pub with I'm like 775 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:19,040 2 pints down. I'm like as happy as Ari. 776 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,440 And he's like, no, no, you're holding all your tension in your 777 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,880 muscles. And that obviously we know now 778 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,720 that we're just solid muscles. You're just. 779 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,920 Muscular and we can kind of see the presentation in you. 780 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,520 So like as someone who knows you again, you are not my patient. 781 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,160 You've never been my patient, but just as like a friend, 782 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,920 you're like, oh, it's like, how do my forums feel? 783 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,200 Yeah, you have. Some people have a more 784 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,440 pronounced muscle tone or bulk than others. 785 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,680 And you have like, relatively given your level of physical 786 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,920 activity because you're not able to exercise really at all 787 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,800 because of your health issues, which again, is fine. 788 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,080 That's what you need to do for you. 789 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,120 But like, you have more muscle mass than we would expect to see 790 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,200 in someone who is as sedentary as you are right now. 791 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,200 Yeah, no, I didn't realise. I I had. 792 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,440 No, I thought that people were born with muscle that kind of 793 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,000 just stayed. I just didn't realise. 794 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,160 There's so many listeners are going to be jealous. 795 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,960 Everyone's experiences are different. 796 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,960 But yeah, you just like you just retain muscle mass. 797 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,720 Well, I had no idea and and that masked the joint instability 798 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,320 massively. So I, I genuinely think that if, 799 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:31,960 if I wasn't a genetic mutant on multiple efforts anyways, I 800 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,920 probably would have figured out that's not quite right because 801 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,360 of course the joint, so I say dysregulation, that's not the 802 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,400 right word. Instability. 803 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,040 And you know, the civilizations and dislocations and things are 804 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,520 one of the most stereotypical like red flags of there's 805 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,800 something going on a little bit. I didn't necessarily have that 806 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,760 and I didn't realise the subpluxing as well. 807 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:56,680 Had no idea. But again, because you don't 808 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,640 know, you don't know what it's like to be in somebody else's 809 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,960 body. You know some some bigger 810 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,280 things, but all of the different like language of your body, you 811 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,160 know, different pains and different subluxations, 812 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,760 different sensations. I kind of saw them as like 813 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,680 different flavours. I didn't really realize it was 814 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:22,800 pain, really realized that, like it wasn't necessarily bad or 815 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,840 that it was unusual. And then I had a sort of a 816 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:31,200 realisation probably about four years ago, and I realised, oh, 817 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,240 this is pain. It's not just my muscle feeling 818 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:38,200 not happy. It's not just oh, I'm 819 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,240 uncomfortable. I think I always think of being 820 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:41,720 uncomfortable. This part's uncomfortable. 821 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:44,200 This part's uncomfortable. When we talk about moderate 822 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,320 pain, I never thought of it as pain. 823 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,360 So sometimes when you don't realise that you are a chronic 824 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,800 pain sufferer, there's other things where you miss yourself 825 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,720 off the kind of what it looks like to have hypermobility and 826 00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,960 HEDS. So if I'd have known that I was 827 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,560 in pain, if I'd have known that I was subluxing, that could have 828 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,160 been two more things on the list of that actually looks at HEDS. 829 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,400 But sometimes you don't realize. Do you ever think back to when 830 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,400 you were younger too? Because I think of this and it's 831 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,080 wild that even in my early 20s when I had some of that stuff 832 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,520 like the headaches I had went on, the neck pain and so on, If 833 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,040 someone gave me a medical form and said tick the box if you 834 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,440 experience chronic pain, like every day, I would have been 835 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,560 like, no, I'm cool. I know. 836 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,440 And that's unbelievable because I would have been gone home to 837 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,560 be in agony, cancel all my plans and lie in a dark room waiting 838 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,840 for my pain to end. But like, it's really hard to 839 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,640 accept. I think in a lot of ways that 840 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,920 pain is like a chronic, a constant thing that you've had 841 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,440 to deal with. And I know it was really hard 842 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,960 for me. And the whole question, I talked 843 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,080 about this with another guest, but have you ever experienced 844 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,040 like a true zero? That question haunts me. 845 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,000 Yes, like. It's like finding out no pain is 846 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:53,960 normal. I was like, yeah. 847 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,440 I know it's I talked to my brother before but I'm just like 848 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,800 shocked. I know so blessed people. 849 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,400 I don't understand how you just like cannot have had pain of a 850 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,080 disabling intensity in childhood even if you wouldn't accept it 851 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,880 as pain as as you and I both didn't. 852 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,080 I was just told her that's normal. 853 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,600 It's really weird that other existence going back to body 854 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,160 image. Something that we have in common 855 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,360 is actually PCOS, and I haven't talked about this as much as I 856 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,920 should. And to be clear, I have not been 857 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,200 officially medically diagnosed with PCOS. 858 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,560 We'll talk about this in a second. 859 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,720 But Hannah, how did your body presentation affect your 860 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,640 diagnostic journey of PCOS? Well, I walked in the door and 861 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,080 you went, you look like you got PCOS. 862 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,960 And I was like, oh great. No, that was no, I said in the 863 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,040 last episode that, you know, chat, chat, chat. 864 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,360 And then he said, well, you do have a very piece OS figure. 865 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:51,200 And I was like, OK, fine, but I of course, if if you are 866 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,640 overweight, you know, more overweight than I was back then, 867 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,040 for sure you get a foot in the door. 868 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,040 And actually I was listening to Lara Briden's podcast this 869 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,840 morning. Plus, I was trying to sleep this 870 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,600 wrong podcast to Pig because it's very, very interesting. 871 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,160 Not too intellectual. I'm joking. 872 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,200 No, I hadn't listened to her podcast before, so I didn't know 873 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,800 I. Think I've heard I've only read 874 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,160 her books just for listeners. She is a naturopath. 875 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,560 I know she's a very she's someone who like me like I'm an 876 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,080 osteopath, but she works in a very medically aligned or 877 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,040 scientifically aligned way and she works with patients who have 878 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,920 various types of female specific health issues and has written 879 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,160 some brilliant books the period repair manual, the hormone 880 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,600 repair manual. I really create her content. 881 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,840 She has some blog posts where she talks about estrogen and 882 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,600 diamine oxidase and histamine even. 883 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,280 But before I interrupt further, you were listening to her 884 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:44,680 podcast? Yeah, what happened? 885 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:50,480 And she was saying about how to actually diagnose PCOS. 886 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,000 And so again, I apologize if I've got this, I might have this 887 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,880 completely wrong. Not medical advice. 888 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,840 Not. Medical advice. 889 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:06,000 I also have a very bad memory. She was saying that you can't. 890 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,000 So I think I don't have the testosterone dominant. 891 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,840 PCOS have a very strong estrogen dominance, which, you know, 892 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,400 makes sense of the picture of histamine and all that malarkey. 893 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,240 But I have had a ultrasound confirming you know cysts in the 894 00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:30,640 ovaries but you're polycystic. But from what I've learned you 895 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,440 can't actually confirm PCOS through just an ultrasound. 896 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,160 I always want to know. You absolutely cannot. 897 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,160 For anyone listening, the ultrasound is actually 898 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,360 borderline useless. Yes, and I'm very careful in 899 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,480 what I will say firmly and what I will not say again. 900 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,440 I'm not a medical doctor. I'm certainly not a 901 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,840 gynecological specialist, but female specific health and ovary 902 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,760 and uterus related health is very much a secondary interest 903 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,720 of mine because of what I've been through, and an ultrasound 904 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,280 is not sufficient to diagnose anyway. 905 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,720 It was presented to me again. I might have misunderstood, but 906 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,680 it very much was. No, I mean my, when, when it 907 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:14,080 happened, I don't know. Many wounds ago, 1520 years ago. 908 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,920 So we were taking this now probably 15 years ago. 909 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,120 It was very much presented to me that I had a provisional, sorry, 910 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:27,640 I had a PCOS diagnosis already without an ultrasound, which is 911 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,640 a little bit strange. But I then had further issues 912 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,000 where my periods stopped entirely for like 5 years I 913 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,480 would say. And obviously the investigations 914 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,720 stopped because it was like we'll go on hormone and birth 915 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:44,080 control. I was like no because. 916 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,160 They tried to say it would bring your period back. 917 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,840 That's that's nonsense. Yeah, fortunately I knew enough 918 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:51,800 about that. I just thought. 919 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,120 That's yeah not. And to be clear, we're not anti 920 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:55,440 hormonal birth. Control here I just. 921 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,840 Pro it for the right patients in the right situations and it's 922 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,200 not going to restore your normal hormonal ovulatory cycles. 923 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:07,080 It's it's a. Depresses them yeah again 924 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,200 sometimes that's the right clinical decision there exactly 925 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,800 where it is a life saving like important medication. 926 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,800 I'm pro the more medications the more options we have the better. 927 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,200 But yeah, when they tell people, oh, it'll bring back your very 928 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,920 cool. It's it's been the I mean, it's 929 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,360 just outright lying. Sometimes it is full on lying. 930 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:25,560 Yeah, exactly. I'm exactly the same. 931 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,400 Every treatment has its pros and cons and every treatment has its 932 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,440 appropriate treatment. Yeah, setting. 933 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:33,560 And the more options the better. Everyone with chronic illness, 934 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,600 we need to be all like pro. More options. 935 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,280 You know, they may have it right for you, but they could be right 936 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,400 for someone. Yes, and that's why I mean not 937 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,440 to segue segue. Tangent, tangent, whatever run 938 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,800 I'm doing. Go with the track. 939 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,680 That's why I'm a huge fan of naturopathic and functional 940 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,920 medicine options because I want as many options as possible. 941 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,400 I don't just want pharmaceutical options. 942 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,400 I would like some herbal options when maybe the pharmaceutical 943 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,280 options I'm allergic to or it interferes with another 944 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,280 medication. I'm pro having as many safe 945 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,080 options as possible. And I have to bring up too 946 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,520 brilliantly, like you're working with someone who is Co qualified 947 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,160 as a medical doctor and an aftermath. 948 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,040 So again, it's it's like any industry, you have to be careful 949 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,160 and you have to be safe. And I don't want anyone in the 950 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,720 comments saying that I'm like promoting that they use medical 951 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:24,480 herbalism instead of medication. I'm not doing that. 952 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,600 It's actually not my place. One of the best things, but not 953 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,000 being a medical doctor is I can't really have opinions on 954 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,480 these things that strongly. Now all my opinions and be 955 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:32,480 completely run down. Exactly. 956 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:35,240 This is the Alex show. I'm joking. 957 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,080 Although my company and I do fund the show, this is all 958 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,280 funded by me. So if anyone would like to ever 959 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,280 sponsor the show, please let me know and please reach out. 960 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,280 We would yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll do a season 4 regardless. 961 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,600 I'll just have. To we need a hyper mobility 962 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:56,320 help, Hyper mobility HQ, an Alex, whatever, an Alex podcast 963 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,600 that tools the globe and then I can join. 964 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:01,240 So we need sponsorship. We do, we will. 965 00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:03,880 We'll take it to the next level. But going back to your 966 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,000 experience, So you had our house naturopath and MD Co qualified. 967 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,400 You're careful and who you work with. 968 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,120 Oh yeah. And you're not going to be like 969 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:13,560 high cardiologist. You've told me this medication 970 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,880 is important for me but lols I'm going to go like take some 971 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,360 random medical herbalism instead like you do, safe and sensible. 972 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:28,200 Decisions exactly like I I don't play about, you know, that type 973 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,840 of thing. Like it's very as I say, I like 974 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,040 all of my options. I like smart people. 975 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,680 It doesn't matter what they do in my life. 976 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,360 My doctors need to be smart. My friends need to be smart. 977 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,960 But I yeah, as I say, I like, I like all my options. 978 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:53,160 But going back to the PCOS they told me that that I had PCOS but 979 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,640 my period stopped and I thought that sounds very very not PCOS 980 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,160 ish but I'm sure it can happen PCOS at that time. 981 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,200 Amenorrhea technically of something, but they need to 982 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,520 diagnose it. Is it primary? 983 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,520 Is it secondary? They have to figure like this is 984 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,680 what I don't like calls yeah. And again, I, I don't like that 985 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,160 I have to criticize people for this stuff because I'm not a 986 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,080 medical doctor. But you can't just have a 987 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,520 patient who has PCOS, then her peers just stop and then be 988 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,640 like, OK, cool, cool story, bro. Like you can't do that. 989 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,440 You have to figure out why, what is causing this cessation? 990 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,640 Because they're kind of sometimes serious reasons why 991 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,600 things happen. That probably was though Alex. 992 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:35,080 I think this is when my adrenal, possibly the that kind of 993 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,320 hyperpots was off the scale, I think. 994 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:43,720 I think that's what ruined a lot of my hormonal resiliency and I 995 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:48,960 think that I was in some sort of adrenal crisis for sure. 996 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,800 Again, I don't really know what I'm talking about, but this is 997 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,360 what I've picked up. It's your experience. 998 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,400 It does fit the picture. I think when I'm trying to 999 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,720 figure out a picture of what was happening and what's happening 1000 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,200 now, it absolutely fits. Pictures or something should 1001 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,840 have been investigated for sure. And I was not backwards in 1002 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,680 coming forwards about going to the doctors to say I'm really 1003 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,960 struggling with this still. But yeah, it was the Marina. 1004 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,720 It was home and a birth control. And then I just, I lost steam 1005 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,480 with everything. I thought, well, my periods 1006 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,080 aren't happening, but maybe they'll come back. 1007 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,480 I can't keep doing this because I was getting the same advice of 1008 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,720 go to the gym and lose weight and everything would get better. 1009 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,920 Go to the gym, lose weight. I'm like, OK, so I did and they 1010 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:33,080 still didn't come back. So yeah, it was the when we talk 1011 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,760 about bias in the medical field and how my experience has been 1012 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,760 changed for sure. Fat phobia plays a massive part. 1013 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,800 I haven't suffered with it as intensity as some people have. 1014 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,080 I've only ever had one, maybe 2 doctors who have directly said 1015 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:51,920 it. And I've thought the something 1016 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,640 that that's a very much a brush off. 1017 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,040 They used it to brush me off, but I can't say what part that 1018 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,080 didn't play in other clinical decision making. 1019 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,880 So with the PCOS, I could absolutely see that being well, 1020 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,280 she's been told to lose weight. That's what she needs to do. 1021 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:11,360 That's what'll fix it all. And it's very it takes away 1022 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,360 confidence. And it even though it kind of 1023 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,040 helps you get the diagnosis, it kind of also helped them wash 1024 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,720 their hands if you because they've now told you, yeah, you 1025 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,600 have PCOS because of your weight, you sort this out, it's 1026 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,360 on you. And it's exactly let's them 1027 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,360 solve their responsibility or role as the healthcare provider. 1028 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,240 And that's. Absolutely. 1029 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,640 And you know, I, I always on, I, I'm very honest with my doctors. 1030 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,800 I never, you know, what's the point, You know, you gotta go to 1031 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,000 be honest because you want to work it out. 1032 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,480 And I started my prayers when I was 11 and they were never 1033 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,160 regular right from the beginning. 1034 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,960 They were every other month. They were never like clockwork. 1035 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,680 So that's pre weight gain. And that can be normal, to be 1036 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,720 clear, when someone's going through puberty, like when I 1037 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:53,600 started to learn about female specific health and you know, 1038 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,440 cycle specific health, your brain has to talk to your 1039 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,040 ovaries, to talk to your adrenal glands. 1040 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,120 You have the hypothalamic pituitary, adrenal, ovarian 1041 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,160 access and all of this stuff. HPAO, don't forget that. 1042 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,360 But everything has to talk to everything and it's hard. 1043 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,600 And the tissues that produce those hormones, they have to get 1044 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,840 better at producing them, the receptors have to get better at 1045 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,920 receiving them. And this is the extent of my 1046 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,880 knowledge about hormones, but it's complex systems and it does 1047 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,040 take a while often for hormonal cycles to become established. 1048 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,640 Yeah, I think the LAR Brian, actually the period of Impaired 1049 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,960 manual maybe talks about this. There's a couple of your books I 1050 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,120 like. And I encourage you always, if 1051 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,440 you're listening to this or watching it, do your own 1052 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,960 research. But that type of normality, I 1053 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,960 believe it, it can take years, maybe even slightly longer to 1054 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,520 get established. I know I had a similar 1055 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,440 experience. What I can say is when it comes 1056 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,560 to when I have young female patients like you in your early 1057 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,960 20s and you are, you know, you're, you're not having 1058 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,240 periods and you're not on anything that would be. 1059 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:55,520 Suppressed on that exactly. That's a serious concern and one 1060 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,560 reason why it becomes a serious concern is because of bone 1061 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,200 density. So people who have, you know, 1062 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,920 estrogen domino hormonal profiles, people who are 1063 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,560 females, they struggle or sorry, they, they will hopefully not 1064 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,360 struggle, but they will reach their peak bone density at 1065 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,280 around their late 20s, maybe early 30s. 1066 00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,880 And again, I'm not an expert here, but that's kind of when 1067 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,440 you're going to reach that peak bone density, you then will kind 1068 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,560 of plateau in that bone density. And then when you go through 1069 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,080 menopause, it will start to decrease over time. 1070 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,640 We want that person's bone density to get as high as it 1071 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,280 can. So you have further to fall. 1072 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,000 It's like a managed decline basically, although I don't 1073 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,200 think of ageing as a decline, but a hormonal decline. 1074 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,960 You. Know what decline it is your 1075 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,680 favorite phrase. Make hay whilst the sunshine. 1076 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,360 You want to make hay whilst the sun shines? 1077 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,480 Absolutely. And one thing that you can do in 1078 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,480 your 20s basically to try and achieve that is to, in addition 1079 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,880 to doing ideally some strength training, if it's possible to 1080 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,840 say for that person to do it. You want to be having ideally 1081 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,160 healthy hormonal cycles. Yeah, that's one way to build up 1082 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,560 this kind of health buffer. And when you have chronic health 1083 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,320 issues and that starts to erode that ability for your body to do 1084 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,480 that, it can have lasting consequences. 1085 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,960 Like I, you know, I get worried about bone density issues in all 1086 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,080 my patients quite to be honest. I see. 1087 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,640 I've never, never once was that mentioned. 1088 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:13,840 Yeah. And that's. 1089 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,040 Kind of the role I play. So hope this will help anyone 1090 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,000 listening. So I obviously treat muscle and 1091 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,240 joint pain and I manage that and I do rehabilitative exercises 1092 00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,200 and all of that, right. But one thing I try to do, and 1093 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,520 the reason that I do a pretty thorough medical history at the 1094 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,480 first appointment at least, and I try to stay updated on changes 1095 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,440 in medical history is because sometimes things happen and I'm 1096 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,800 like, that's not right. I don't know what the solution 1097 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,080 is, but I know that's not right. And you need to ask your medical 1098 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,320 doctor to explain how we're going to manage this aspect of 1099 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,440 your health. So that's kind of the role I end 1100 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,600 up playing just to just set aside in terms of with with 1101 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,200 PCOS. I'll share my story for a SEC. 1102 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:56,480 So I had kind of the opposite experience to you that I, I was 1103 00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,200 in my again, same age, early 20s, had a history of irregular 1104 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:00,840 cycles, lots of pain. I. 1105 00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,560 Really. He not should now think about 1106 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,400 it, Yeah. I would have been 2122. 1107 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,800 It was in the UK, maybe slightly older, but I had a lot of pain, 1108 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,880 a lot of period pain, really irregular cycles did. 1109 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:15,640 You have pain outside of your period as well. 1110 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,520 Yeah, yeah. And my chronic my muscle 1111 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,200 dripping was at its worst as well, even though I would have 1112 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,040 been like I'm fine like I'm early 20s, how can I have any 1113 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,320 health issues going on? But I I went to my medical 1114 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,160 doctor, my GP and I had looked up the diagnostic criteria for 1115 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,280 PCOS. I'm very. 1116 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,160 True Alex fashion. True Alex fashion printed it 1117 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:34,480 off. I love a print out. 1118 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,400 So theatrical. You can show people things on 1119 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,640 your phone, but it's not the same as a print out. 1120 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,800 There's something tangible about that piece of paper. 1121 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,240 Drop. Exactly. 1122 00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:44,560 So I brought it in. No, but it does. 1123 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:45,600 It does. Yeah. 1124 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,640 And I was like, hi, I have these symptoms. 1125 00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,440 I think I might have PCOS. Can we investigate me for them? 1126 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,040 So we did. I had some blood tests which did 1127 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,160 show elevated levels of certain hormones which are associated 1128 00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,400 with PCOS. In my case, it wasn't so much. 1129 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,160 Again, people talk about testing testosterone. 1130 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,880 There are many different types and versions of testosterone and 1131 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,240 I only had one that was slightly elevated, but it was elevated. 1132 00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:11,120 It was just at the lowest end of what's considered to be high. 1133 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,640 I had issues with sex hormone binding globulin and I believe 1134 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,400 glutenising hormone. Again, I have the blood test 1135 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,280 results somewhere. That's based off my memory. 1136 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,880 I had documented long and ovulatory cycles, Yeah. 1137 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,960 So this is when I got into charting my cycle. 1138 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,760 So actually I would have around 25 when this happened, not early 1139 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,320 20s, somewhere mid 20s. But I had detailed charts 1140 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,640 showing my my basal body temperature, my cervical fluid 1141 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,840 or cervical mucous observations like I was like. 1142 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,240 You were like I was argue with. Me, I'm like, I'm not ovulating, 1143 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:43,320 basically like here is the, you know, and here's the research 1144 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,840 about why this method of tracking is accurate. 1145 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,480 Yeah, for identifying whether or not you're ovulating. 1146 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,320 And to be clear, I'm not here promoting that anyone use that 1147 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,240 as birth control. These are discussions for other 1148 00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:55,440 people and other podcasts and other experts. 1149 00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:58,000 But what I can say is that if you're trying to figure out for 1150 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,640 your health reasons, yeah. Am I ovulating or not? 1151 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,240 It's just data, good data. Yeah, learning how to chart your 1152 00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:06,080 cycle using. I use the Sensi Plan protocol. 1153 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,440 That was what I did at the time. And again, I will say this one 1154 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,000 more time, I'm not telling you to do this. 1155 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,520 This is what I was doing. OK, So anyways, I did all that, 1156 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,800 went to my doctor and I was like, I'm yeah, I'm not 1157 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,120 ovulating. I'm going like 3 months plus. 1158 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,320 You know, my longest cycle was 180 something days and I have 1159 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,000 the chart saved on my phone just to remind myself that I wasn't 1160 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,760 well sometimes. What is the ideal? 1161 00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:28,400 A normal cycle. So a cycle is considered long if 1162 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,000 it's longer than 35 days and short if it's less than. 1163 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,280 I think it's 20. 4 So 100 and 80s. 1164 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,680 Yeah, yeah. And that was, I felt like trash 1165 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,760 the whole time, by the way. Headaches, muscle and joint 1166 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,680 pain, fatigue. I was gaining weight. 1167 00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,480 So the weird thing is I was eventually told that I couldn't 1168 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,840 possibly have PCOS because I was too skinny. 1169 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,000 And that's what this GP told me. I also had no cysts on the 1170 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,640 ultrasound as well. So again, she's like, yeah, you 1171 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,960 don't have cysts and you're, you know, you're not overweight, so 1172 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,000 you can't have PCOS, which makes no sense because as per the 1173 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,840 diagnostic criteria back then, and I'm not sure what they are 1174 00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,320 now. It's still not on. 1175 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,120 Yeah, you had to have two of the things. 1176 00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,160 It was long, an ovulatory cycle, elevated hormones associated 1177 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,840 with PCOS and, or, and or cysts on the ovaries. 1178 00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,240 You have to have two of three. So if you have two, the 1179 00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:16,640 ultrasound becomes irrelevant, basically. 1180 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,040 And yeah, as far as I know, cysts can be a normal finding on 1181 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,040 an ultrasound. Everyone will. 1182 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,600 I think it's once a year, even someone with healthy cycles will 1183 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,920 have like a few cysts appear. It's just a thing that happens. 1184 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,800 So could type podcast now translate. 1185 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,400 And she said that that it's a really normal thing. 1186 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,960 And it's just a sign that you haven't ovulated properly. 1187 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,800 And you cannot ovulate, Poppy, for loads of different reasons. 1188 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:42,760 It's normal. Yeah. 1189 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,080 Like maybe you didn't eat enough, maybe you're very 1190 00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,080 stressed. Too much exercise. 1191 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,360 And it's not normal if it's all the time and for years and 1192 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:50,280 years. There's a point where it's not 1193 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,040 normal. That's the point. 1194 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,360 So if, you know, I got scanned and they're like, Oh yeah, lots 1195 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:54,960 of cysts. Yeah. 1196 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,680 I mean, obviously in my case, like I really wasn't ovulating, 1197 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,680 but for somebody else they wouldn't write positive tests. 1198 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,760 But it's no, it's just that that month they. 1199 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,000 Yeah, depends on where they catch. 1200 00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:06,000 Got back to normal, you know. Exactly. 1201 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,200 It's the UPS and the downs. It's a fluctuating type of 1202 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,720 situation. So yeah, in my case, I was then 1203 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,000 also told, oh, well, you can go on hormonal birth control. 1204 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,240 And I said, look, I can't. I've been on, I was on it for 1205 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,320 like 9 years or eight years or something previous because I had 1206 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,000 had some, you know, acne issues in my teens. 1207 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,680 It was a really common thing at the time. 1208 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,800 There is, there are some, again, they're very minor. 1209 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,320 And the last thing I want to do is make anyone not feel 1210 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,200 comfortable with the type of birth control they're using. 1211 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,400 So it's important that if someone listening has a system 1212 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,920 that works for them, you do. That, absolutely. 1213 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,800 But in my case, I looked at some of the potential risks or 1214 00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,120 concerns about things like breast cancer and stroke. 1215 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,840 I have a family history of some things in that area. 1216 00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,280 And obviously, even though the risk still would have been very, 1217 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,680 very low, I didn't feel comfortable with that. 1218 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,480 And that's the full consent, Yeah, You were able to, yes. 1219 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,600 Weigh it up and go. I'll go for all. 1220 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,880 I'll find some. Mail and it's like a major theme 1221 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,600 of this podcast and I think I hope everything that I do is 1222 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,240 there are no options that are risk free yet. 1223 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,120 I spoke with my coach on the episode I recorded with him like 1224 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,840 sitting, not exercising has risks. 1225 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,720 Exercising also has risks. You know everything. 1226 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,840 Different types of exercise have risks in different ways. 1227 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,920 Like everything is a big risk sandwich in life. 1228 00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,000 You have to pick which type and amount of risk you feel best 1229 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:21,840 stealing. I mean. 1230 00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,320 We talked about last time constant calculating. 1231 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:26,480 It's exhausting. Yeah. 1232 00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,760 And you know, I said to my parents like, well, you know, 1233 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,600 because I struggle with history and issues like well, do you and 1234 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,600 Ford map issues and self issues, but do you want to eat this or 1235 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,280 this? And I'm like, OK, I'm like, OK, 1236 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,080 cuz I had eggs for breakfast. I had chicken for that. 1237 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,480 That's too much soft to do. Like everything is pick your 1238 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,600 poison or British sandwich. But I think you're small, 1239 00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:48,920 palpable well. You know, 100% it's like there's 1240 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,560 there's often no good option. Yeah, you just got to go with 1241 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:59,360 the best, best wrist sandwich that you can put together. 1242 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,160 Yeah. And I'm afraid of trial and 1243 00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:02,760 error. Yeah, so massively. 1244 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,800 What I ended up doing, what helped me, because the whole 1245 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,280 PCOS thing, it's really the kind of the start of my journey with 1246 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:09,800 all. That big? 1247 00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,080 Realizations, really. And it was the thing that gave 1248 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,680 me hope was I literally left that doctor's office. 1249 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,120 I was like, well guess I'm on my own now. 1250 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,240 That's the feeling you get, yeah. 1251 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,880 It makes you feel on your own. By the way, if you see me 1252 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,160 rolling this up. Do you want my pillow? 1253 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,080 No, this is not just a fashion I have. 1254 00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,960 I have a grumpy shoulder. Do you play pillow? 1255 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,560 No, it's fine. Short arms. 1256 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,400 That's true. You're doing, you're doing 1257 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,200 position of true rest or supported rest. 1258 00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,160 You're propping your joints up because if they're not propped 1259 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,520 up then they're obviously having to support themselves. 1260 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,200 And that could be irritating as I am with my little, it's better 1261 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,600 late than single style pillow that show. 1262 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,040 Do you not see that? Yeah, they always have the 1263 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,800 pillow on the lap. It's for modesty. 1264 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:54,080 Alex Maybe they're all hyper. Mobile, beautiful, some of them, 1265 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,320 you know you and I watch it and I'm like, because I'm getting, 1266 00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:58,600 I'm learning from you, I'm getting back. 1267 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,960 I'm like, that's a hyper mobile knee. 1268 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,960 We'll get to team in a second because there's stuff we have to 1269 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,160 touch on, but just been wrapping up the whole PCOS thing. 1270 01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:07,600 Yeah, that was and this is the first. 1271 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,920 Realization. Yeah, it was the this is the 1272 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,040 thing that kick started my whole progress because you asked me at 1273 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,480 the end of last episode, you're like, how did you get to where 1274 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,920 you are today? And honestly, when that doctor's 1275 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,520 door shut and she's like, yeah, good luck, I have nothing else 1276 01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:21,720 to help you with. Peace out. 1277 01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,960 And I was like you. Know I think I think I went 1278 01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,680 through a similar thing at some point I must have just realized 1279 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:30,000 I'm on my own because I remember saying to you that it was very 1280 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,360 much a feeling of feeling like you're on your own that they're 1281 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,560 not going to be thinking about you when they're going home 1282 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,240 you're like I think about my patience when I and I believe 1283 01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,200 you but. Unfortunately, I'm trying to get 1284 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:41,320 better. It's kind of that feeling of 1285 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,720 being on your own. And I'm going to have to do this 1286 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,480 myself. Yeah, but go, sorry. 1287 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,840 Yeah, with no support at all. Yeah, and. 1288 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,160 She was like you're, you're done. 1289 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,520 So I just left and I did a lot of research and obviously the, 1290 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,600 the medical medication option. And again, hormonal birth 1291 01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,480 control does not treat P so it can suppress cycles and 1292 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,120 sometimes that's good. Sometimes people need a break. 1293 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,040 You know, my cycles, I, I had less pain, to be honest, I was 1294 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,440 on the hormonal birth control than when I was off it. 1295 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,960 So again, there's pros and cons each way. 1296 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,680 Right. And sometimes you have to go to 1297 01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,480 the full back position to make progress. 1298 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,400 So if you're really struggling with a particularly high mobile 1299 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,160 pain, you've got so much going on, you just need some mental 1300 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,720 and physical space, some symptoms, people sort something 1301 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,040 else out. People need a break. 1302 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,800 It's exhausting living with the burden of having chronic health 1303 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:31,560 conditions. And sometimes I see patients 1304 01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,880 where they're nervous to speak with our medical doctor about 1305 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,200 pain management 'cause they don't want to take like drugs. 1306 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,600 And I just look at them and I'm like, you are tired, you have 1307 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,040 dealt with this for so long, you need a break. 1308 01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,480 The soul is tired. Yeah. 1309 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,800 And I'm like, look, there are certainly risks with different 1310 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,040 pain medications people get worried about, you know, like 1311 01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,440 addiction and side effects, which are totally reasonable 1312 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,800 concerns. But I'm like, This is why we 1313 01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,480 have these medications is so that you can talk with people 1314 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,080 who are appropriately qualified to discuss them with you, which 1315 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,720 is not me. But you can talk with your 1316 01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,520 medical doctors and they might be able to support you in a 1317 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,520 short term intervention just to try and get you some sleep. 1318 01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,480 If you're in so many much pain you can't sleep at night or 1319 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,760 whatever. We sometimes you need that like 1320 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:13,640 that way to have a break from from. 1321 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:18,280 Yeah, But in my case, I, you know, I didn't have any, any 1322 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,080 support there. I remember going to a pharmacist 1323 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:21,520 one day. She gave me some special 1324 01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,360 painkillers are available from a pharmacy in the UK because I was 1325 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,240 it was actually my boyfriend one at the time, but I was in agony. 1326 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,480 There was one day I'll never forget. 1327 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,080 I was like lying on the bathroom floor. 1328 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,640 I couldn't reach my phone. He wasn't home. 1329 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:34,520 And I was just like, I guess this is the end. 1330 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,120 Like I just, I don't know what it was, but it has to. 1331 01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:38,440 It was such a high pain level. Sorry. 1332 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,720 Go on. But no, I'm interrupting you, 1333 01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,400 don't worry. It's good. 1334 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,280 It's a nice change. I know we we're both terrible. 1335 01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:49,600 We're being very well behaved today. 1336 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:55,800 But also it's crucial to remember that you don't know 1337 01:02:55,800 --> 01:03:00,360 that pain's going to end. I mean, I had one of the most 1338 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:06,800 absolutely horrific periods about six months ago and I was 1339 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,000 literally considering going to A&E. 1340 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,440 It was that bad. I couldn't breathe. 1341 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:17,000 And you, I mean, I was pretty sure that was going to end. 1342 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,160 But for many of the pain, you know, your shoulder pain, you 1343 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,000 were, you were told it was never going to end. 1344 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,120 You don't know it's not going to. 1345 01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,000 You don't know that it will end. And you don't know, like is it 1346 01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,160 do you have red flag symptoms? Like you're not medically 1347 01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:30,400 trained. You're not, you're not even 1348 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,400 trained to my level. So you don't, you don't know how 1349 01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,200 you don't have skills to triage. Basically. 1350 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,520 I can kind of do like, am I in mortal peril badly or not, But 1351 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,360 it's, I don't know how patients cope if they don't have a strong 1352 01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,520 healthcare background with the PCOS. 1353 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,800 So I, you know, I had these, I, it wasn't an easy journey. 1354 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,400 It took me about two years. What I did was kind of similar 1355 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:50,760 to you. I was like, look, medication in 1356 01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,640 my case isn't really working. What can I do? 1357 01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,080 I did a bunch of research. I ended up taking not all 1358 01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,640 together. Please do your research. 1359 01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,160 Please talk with your medical doctors. 1360 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:00,960 Please do. That's so intricate, you got to 1361 01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,640 be. I took a myo inositol, they do 1362 01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:07,800 like a 40 to one with D Cairo. So I took that and the research 1363 01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:08,600 is really good. Yes. 1364 01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,080 Can I tell you Yes. No. 1365 01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,880 You've just said exactly what I was going to interrupt with that 1366 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,800 If you take too much of a certain type of myo nosotl, it 1367 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,400 changes to the one that actually makes PCOS worse. 1368 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,960 Yeah. And you have to get the not, not 1369 01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:23,040 the right shame. God. 1370 01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:24,240 What the dose? Yes. 1371 01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,400 The you said 40 to one, that's what you need essentially. 1372 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:30,800 That's what the ratio, that's the word. 1373 01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,320 Inosotols are really interesting molecules. 1374 01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,240 They're in different tissues, in different ratios in different 1375 01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,560 ways. People, you know, like people 1376 01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,280 who have testosterone, dominant hormonal profiles of people who 1377 01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,360 are like males, They have different ratios in different 1378 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:42,320 ways than females. Yeah. 1379 01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,440 So nostals are just really cool. Everyone should learn more about 1380 01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:45,560 them. So you took. 1381 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,440 Myo nostal I. Took myo nostal like a 40 to 1 1382 01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,880 ratio with Decaro nostal. At some point I also tried 1383 01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,360 Berberine and I don't think I took them together because they 1384 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,000 have similar mechanisms of action. 1385 01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,640 So this is where detailed research becomes critical. 1386 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,760 And I am going to give a shout out to examine.com. 1387 01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,520 You've heard me talk about times I am examine.com's number one 1388 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,760 fan. It is a website where they 1389 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:11,840 synthesize research. So even for me, reading a study, 1390 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,160 reading a piece of primary research on pub Med is 1391 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,600 difficult. It's tiring, it's exhausting, 1392 01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,560 it's not fun. I don't enjoy it, but that's why 1393 01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,240 I'm not a researcher, let's be honest. 1394 01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,840 But if you use examine.com, what's really helpful is that 1395 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,600 they synthesize the research. So you could go home, you could 1396 01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,320 type in in a myo inositol. And what will come up is links 1397 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,960 to a bunch of studies and kind of some tables just summarizing 1398 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,080 the findings of those studies. Yeah. 1399 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:37,880 So what dosages were used in different studies? 1400 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,800 What does it interact with? You know, because people forget 1401 01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,360 supplements have interactions. Just because it's natural 1402 01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,680 medicine or supplement doesn't mean if, if something never 1403 01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,200 interacts with anything and there are no side effects or 1404 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:54,800 risks, it means it doesn't work. Yeah, well, well, there's very 1405 01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:56,400 little. There'll be something in there. 1406 01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,800 Look, we're I'm not experts in pharmaceuticals. 1407 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,040 You we're not experts supplements necessarily, but 1408 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:05,000 people need to, you know, if you're taking a supplement for a 1409 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,040 specific reason, it has a mechanism of action. 1410 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,480 It's going to do things in your body. 1411 01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,320 So you need to be careful. You have to take it seriously. 1412 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,200 And if you're someone who is kind of like on your own trying 1413 01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:18,680 to navigate thatexamine.com is a tool that I think people can use 1414 01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,120 to try and be safe. But I was on examine.com in the 1415 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,920 early days, looking up everything, looking up studies, 1416 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,000 getting the protocols used in studies, making my own little 1417 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,560 like strategies. How did you implement it then? 1418 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,920 So when you did your little research, did you make notes how 1419 01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,040 to do? Yeah, I had like notes and notes 1420 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:34,880 and notes and. So this is what I'm going to try 1421 01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:35,640 this month. Yeah. 1422 01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,320 Well, and I would do it for three months at a time. 1423 01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,640 I just, I picked that as my intervention window basically my 1424 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,440 SO I had my methodology for my own personal health exploration 1425 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,480 basically. But out of desperation, I was 1426 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:52,040 just like trying various things. So I would try a supplement for 1427 01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:53,600 three months. I would then try another. 1428 01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:55,680 I was trying to not mix too many things because I wanted to see 1429 01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:57,800 what see what had an effect and what didn't. 1430 01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,040 I tried not exercising. I tried exercising. 1431 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,880 I tried different types of exercising. 1432 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,200 Like I was just trying a bunch of different things in different 1433 01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,960 ways. Long story short, eventually 1434 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,440 things did start to improve. I do have to add in the 1435 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:15,800 anecdote. I was so desperate. 1436 01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:17,240 You know, I have a bit of a phobia of needles. 1437 01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:18,640 If you want dry needle, you do not see me. 1438 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:20,040 I do not do that. I will pass out. 1439 01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,120 But I made-up that I had like an Ant. 1440 01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,600 I went to Boots and I wanted to buy blood glucose monitor 1441 01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:30,000 because I was convinced PCOS should really be reclassified as 1442 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,520 female metabolic syndrome or cycle related metabolic syndrome 1443 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,600 or whatever. So basically I was convinced 1444 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,760 that there's something wrong with my, you know metabolism. 1445 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:44,240 So I sorry my insulin response. So I went to Boots and I was 1446 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,400 like, hi, I have an aunt who's a diabetic and she forgot her 1447 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,000 blood glucose monitor. Can you sell me one? 1448 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,760 And they were like, this is a very weird 24 year old. 1449 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:52,880 Did you not think that they would sell it to you? 1450 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:54,240 Not allowed to buy. That I think you're supposed to 1451 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:55,720 have diabetes to buy these things. 1452 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,640 Like I was just basically making up that I like I, I wanted to 1453 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,880 have because I wanted to know what was going on with my blood 1454 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,200 glucose. Anyways, I remember I would sit 1455 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,080 on the kitchen floor trying to like stab my finger. 1456 01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,160 It's hard to do. There is a technique and it's 1457 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,640 harder to do if you are going to pass out and have a needle 1458 01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,640 phobia. That's how desperate I was. 1459 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:16,399 Yeah. Anyways, I was trying to do all 1460 01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,439 these objective assessments. I eventually got to a point 1461 01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:22,479 where things did improve. I now have regular knock on wood 1462 01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,279 cycles, which is wild. I've been that way for years. 1463 01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:28,479 And for me, that was the first thing it did. 1464 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,120 It did two things. One, it took away this hormonal 1465 01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,920 chaos element that I've had to deal with as you know what it's. 1466 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:38,800 Finalized a bit. And two, it, it gave me hope and 1467 01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,279 taught me that I can maybe change things even when people 1468 01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:44,800 say it's not possible. Maybe I can improve things. 1469 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,600 Again, I'm I'm not saying that like it's like I have a cure. 1470 01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,200 I wasn't even diagnosed with PCOS. 1471 01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:51,800 So this is just my own weird health experience. 1472 01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,680 So this is before you went to the doctors and you were like. 1473 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:55,200 No, after. This was after. 1474 01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,200 Oh, so she didn't even diagnose? No, I was told I was too skinny. 1475 01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,680 Oh. I thought you are. 1476 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:00,960 Could you wait? No, no. 1477 01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:02,279 No, I'm not that. Serious. 1478 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,399 No, she didn't have diagnosed. That's shocking. 1479 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,359 But I definitely like as far as I'm aware, I met the diagnostic 1480 01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:10,600 criteria at the time. That I find that really. 1481 01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:12,800 Yeah. Yeah, she was just like, peace 1482 01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,640 out nice, have a nice life. She should have, I mean, I mean 1483 01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,120 someone had to do the job, but really that should have been 1484 01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,200 referred as she was like this doesn't match up the criteria 1485 01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:23,840 and I'm not too sure here. I'll refer. 1486 01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,240 Yeah, that would have been this part, because I was missing 1487 01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,520 classes, I couldn't work. Like it was affecting my life as 1488 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:33,000 well, but touching real quick on other things in life because I 1489 01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,880 know we're running out of time and you're leaving. 1490 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,720 You're moving to New Zealand, which I'm really cross about, 1491 01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,279 quite frankly. But can we talk real quick about 1492 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,080 Housewives? And of course, Meredith Marx and 1493 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:52,040 the bath You, I am disengaging. No, I got into Housewives partly 1494 01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,360 because of you, partly because of Dave. 1495 01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:57,400 And I have to say the whole bath thing, you know, when Meredith 1496 01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,080 is like, for listeners who don't know what we're talking about, 1497 01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:01,840 this is Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. 1498 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,800 It is where I like, I just, I love spending time with these 1499 01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,160 women. I do think it's hard to put your 1500 01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,160 life out there. I do actually like respect them 1501 01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:13,360 more. You know, people think it's like 1502 01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:14,920 a trashy show. And I'm, I'm not saying it's 1503 01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:19,160 like going to get an Oscar, but for me, it's been a really 1504 01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,640 interesting show to, you know, kind of engage with over time. 1505 01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,400 And you know, when Meredith goes to the hotel and so, like, 1506 01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,040 sitting, she's really upset she doesn't get a bath. 1507 01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,920 Yeah, I'd be upset too. You know, I was like, 1508 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:32,920 interesting because I would be upset. 1509 01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,520 Yeah, what if you have a bad pain day and you need a bath? 1510 01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,720 I need to mermaid Aesop. Yeah, like if I had a bath in my 1511 01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:40,760 room and you didn't, I would give you my room. 1512 01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,200 I would just ask that if I did have a bad pain day that you'd 1513 01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:44,560 let me have a bath. Exactly. 1514 01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,400 But I would feel like your need might be greater than mine right 1515 01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,960 now for sure. I don't know. 1516 01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:50,840 Who knows what pain days are, Yeah? 1517 01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,920 How do we quantify things? Numbers are tricky. 1518 01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,960 Hannah. It has been an absolute delight 1519 01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,600 to have you on today and I don't want to let you go because 1520 01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,800 you're going to leave me. Hannah, when it comes to let's 1521 01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,960 talk about friendship and hypermobility, is there any 1522 01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:11,080 advice that you kind of give, you know, yourself or maybe 1523 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:12,840 previously or maybe you're one of those people's always have 1524 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:14,160 lots of friends. I don't know, I've struggled. 1525 01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:15,960 No. Is there any? 1526 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:17,880 I've been a solitary animal for a long. 1527 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,280 Time and then the hyperability. I know, I know. 1528 01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,800 It literally did. Is there any advice you'd like 1529 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,200 to give listeners or? In in terms of how to make 1530 01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,160 friends or. I don't know how to just, I 1531 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,160 think for me, what I would have told myself is look like it's 1532 01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,960 you're struggling partly with friendships because you have 1533 01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,520 chronic health issues. And Oh yeah, the people who get 1534 01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,120 it get it. The people who don't, don't. 1535 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:47,280 It's, it's very difficult. I mean, at the moment it's very 1536 01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,640 much a feeling if you don't really belong anywhere because I 1537 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,840 can't really fit into society in a lot of places where I would 1538 01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,520 get social interaction, like, you know, working in an office 1539 01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,200 setting, for example, having workmates that people don't 1540 01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:06,240 appreciate just how much social I know social from a social 1541 01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,200 battery perspective. People often understand that. 1542 01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,040 Yeah, and you can like right now, go to the gym or make 1543 01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,600 friends like a spin class. Your world, it becomes a bit 1544 01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:16,480 small. Exactly. 1545 01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:21,360 It shrinks and it's very difficult to kind of maintain a 1546 01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:23,880 sense of self and to keep yourself ticking over because 1547 01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:28,920 I'm an introvert and I need to be in peopley settings to keep 1548 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:30,640 me ticking over. The wise I get nervous and I 1549 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:36,600 just shrink up. But it's that's when I think if 1550 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,680 you've had a bit of a hard time keeping friendships going for 1551 01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:44,360 whatever reason, chronic illness, like, you know, to an 1552 01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,920 extent where it's disabling and it stops you doing everyday 1553 01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,840 activities where you would meet people naturally. 1554 01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,280 I forgot what I'm saying. Yeah. 1555 01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,160 I think just being aware that like it's, it happens. 1556 01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,480 It's a. Sorry, I remembered to have come 1557 01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:01,080 back online. I've come back online. 1558 01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:07,360 It also means that I think that I can spot somebody who I think 1559 01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,840 is a really good person straight away. 1560 01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:11,960 I think so. That's why when I saw you on 1561 01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:16,560 TikTok, I thought I like. So yeah, I think that it, as 1562 01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,680 much as things get a little bit isolating, I do think it makes 1563 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,280 you better at spotting people who are like quality human 1564 01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:25,440 beings. Definitely. 1565 01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,560 Yeah, definitely. Because I think a lot of people 1566 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,760 waste some time with people who maybe aren't good for them. 1567 01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:35,040 And when you have chronic illness, wait, you are trying to 1568 01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:38,760 survive like you haven't got time for people who bring kind 1569 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,400 of take, take money out of the pot. 1570 01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:42,680 So. You don't have the energy for. 1571 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,120 That I think you just don't have time. 1572 01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:46,840 So I think it makes you more selective. 1573 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:54,520 But yeah, I think social media, as much as it's a bit toxic 1574 01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:58,200 sometimes for sure, it's also an opportunity for kind of making 1575 01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:02,680 friends and and lasting relationships like us. 1576 01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,480 One day we we still do our ultimate girls trip before you 1577 01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:08,080 go away ultimate girls trip Yorkshire. 1578 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,800 Before we go, I do want to see what my grip. 1579 01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,120 Shoot, I forgot. You promise me I've held off. 1580 01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:17,880 And I brought it. I actually remembered which is 1581 01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:22,120 shocking, but so this is a grip strength testing device. 1582 01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:24,800 A dynamometer I believe is the typical term for. 1583 01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,280 It I've been dying for this. Hannah is surprisingly strong 1584 01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:30,440 and again, don't do this at home. 1585 01:14:30,440 --> 01:14:31,920 If your fingers are going to dislocate, you're going to 1586 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:33,680 injure yourself. Please, kids, be safe. 1587 01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:35,800 Or adults, Hopefully adults listening to the. 1588 01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,320 Side. But yeah, this just shows 1589 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,360 people's grip strength and we'll see how I do today. 1590 01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,000 We'll see. OK. 1591 01:14:43,080 --> 01:15:02,960 Oh my God, it wasn't on. We're going to go again. 34.40 1592 01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,280 That's that's good. I'm in the top 20 again. 1593 01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,120 I looked at some study, different studies calibrate this 1594 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,120 different ways. This is like an Amazon's finest 1595 01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:11,880 option. This is not a clinically 1596 01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,320 calibrate. I know my hands are slightly 1597 01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,160 sweaty too. So I got 34.4. 1598 01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:20,920 You can try now to see who wins. I'm intimidation. 1599 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:23,000 Now now seeing how how hard you had to do it. 1600 01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,480 I did cramp my arm but oh. So you just let you go for. 1601 01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:28,000 It it was worth it. The number, yeah. 1602 01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:30,600 Oh no, that's so hard. Harder. 1603 01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:38,800 OK, let's see what it got. 39.8. Give me this I. 1604 01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:40,240 Want you, You go again and then I'll. 1605 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:41,760 I'm not going again. No, you're done. 1606 01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:42,960 I'll. Never do it again. 1607 01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,080 OK, well I'm not going again because I'm going to hurt 1608 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:46,440 myself. You go one more time if you 1609 01:15:46,440 --> 01:15:49,160 want, I'm going to talk while you do that because you do and 1610 01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:51,600 tell me the number. But basically, Long story short, 1611 01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:55,120 my I, Hannah and I have talked about kind of her figure. 1612 01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:59,160 And it's funny because yeah, you Hannah was, I swear, like meant 1613 01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:02,520 to do strong woman activities in another life because you just 1614 01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:07,680 have a shockingly strong grip and ability to maintain muscle 1615 01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,280 mass. And I, I hope that one day when 1616 01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,440 you're when you're, you know, some of your health issues are 1617 01:16:12,440 --> 01:16:14,960 hopefully have you in a little bit better place that maybe 1618 01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,840 you'll be able to ahead to do some strength training because 1619 01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,360 you excited some natural talent right here. 1620 01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,960 That was that was hard. Anyways, Hannah, thank you so 1621 01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:27,640 much for being on here today. I would keep you longer if I 1622 01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:29,520 could. We have to set our wonderful 1623 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,240 Brian Free. He has a life to live. 1624 01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:33,400 Set free. We need to wrap up here. 1625 01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:35,560 Sonia's thank you to everyone who's listened today. 1626 01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,920 Please be careful if you get one of these and try this at home. 1627 01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,080 And I can't wait to share this season with you. 1628 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,840 I hope you enjoy it as much as I have making it. 1629 01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:45,480 Take care.