1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Can I ask you a question because I think what some people enjoy, 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:04,520 at least I know for me with strength training, what I 3 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,640 enjoyed, especially at the start was feeling something other than 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,680 pain, which sounds really dark when you have chronic pain. 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,040 And then you go and you do something to your muscles, you 6 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,760 do an exercise correctly without injuring yourself. 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,600 Key is that you do it correctly without injuring yourself. 8 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,960 Yes. You then have that feeling of 9 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,640 healthy muscular fatigue exactly, which is technically 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,560 it's a healthy inflammatory process for remodeling that 11 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,120 tissue and that feels so pleasant. 12 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,160 Yes, yeah. And I think I kind of building 13 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,960 off that also, it's a when I'm in the gym, I feel like I'm not 14 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,680 using, yes, you're using your brain to exercise, but like the 15 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,600 loud and anxious thoughts are not as present because my body 16 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,360 is tired. So it's not like my brain is 17 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,280 also tired then. And so the thoughts that are the 18 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,360 compulsive anxiety that's quieter. 19 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,720 Have you heard of heavy work? No, so I don't have diagnosed 20 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,080 ADHD, but we, there's a lot I do. 21 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,360 There we go, there we go. We all know how it is. 22 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,080 But I used to, you know, I've had boyfriends over the years 23 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,959 and they come home and be like, Alex, why have you moved all the 24 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,640 furniture in the flat? And it did tend to, you know, 25 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,920 correlate with me being a bit like anxious or something going 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,240 on. And for me, I started to realize 27 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,560 when I learned about heavy work, which is a term for types of 28 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,800 exercise or, or movements or different activities that people 29 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,000 will do sometimes to kind of. And again, I'm not a mental 30 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,720 health expert, OK? I have expertise, but it kind of 31 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,600 like helps to calm you down a bit and lets you just feel a bit 32 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,600 more, as you said, like it takes all those like scattered 33 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,840 thoughts away and just makes you feel more at peace. 34 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,080 I guess I would say when I learned about that, I was like, 35 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,760 oh, This is why I really like strength training. 36 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,120 And for me, it's not even about the physical aspects. 37 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,560 Like my number one concern is how my mental health would 38 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,160 deteriorate if I'm not able to exercise. 39 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,240 That's my greatest fear. I think you and I've talked 40 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,800 about that. But yeah, that's that's how you 41 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,080 work. I relate to that so much. 42 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,560 Hey, I'm Hyper Mobile and if you're listening to this, I'm 43 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,720 guessing you might be too. Hi, my name is Alex and I'm your 44 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,560 Hyper Mobile host. And today we have on a very, 45 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,479 very special guest. Abby is here with us today. 46 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:13,080 Abby, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Alex. 47 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,240 I appreciate you asking me to be here today. 48 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,360 I'm honestly shocked you're here, given that you have no 49 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,200 social media presence. Like I was not expecting you to 50 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,120 be, you know, happy to be here, but I'm. 51 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,640 Delighted I actually to comment on that. 52 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:28,840 I did have Instagram like at one point in my life and it's still 53 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,080 active and I will occasionally post something on it, but I only 54 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,840 have started reposting things more recently because I entered 55 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,280 a writing competition. This is not a plug for that. 56 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,080 This is just me talking. But I want to know more. 57 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,440 I, I did not win, but the woman who was like running, it was 58 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,480 like very Instagram heavy. And so the only reason I like 59 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,440 posted something was because I thought she would unfairly judge 60 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,480 me because I'm like a hermit and I didn't win anyway. 61 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,800 And I I maintained that it's because I'm a hermit, not 62 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,880 because my entrance piece wasn't that very wasn't good there. 63 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,160 There you go, the complex world of writing competitions. 64 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:04,880 Can I ask real quick we by the way, we have you on because 65 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,600 you're going to talk about, just to be clear for the audience, 66 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,320 we're going to talk about here, talk about that entire going to 67 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,960 talk about your childhood spinal injury at a really serious 68 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,040 injury as a child. We're going to talk about how 69 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,080 you've kind of renegotiated a relationship with exercise and 70 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,240 how you found strength training to really help you, you know, 71 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,880 given that you're dealing with joint hypermobility. 72 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,400 But back to the writing thing. Tell me, tell me real quick, 73 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,480 what was it? Can you come in vague terms what 74 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,720 the story was? About So it was like the first 75 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,280 chapter of something I'm working on that is more of a long form. 76 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,760 I don't know how long it'll be, but I've had a story kind of in 77 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,680 my brain that I've been trying to get out on paper. 78 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,720 Everyone says you need to. Like, if you actually want to be 79 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,040 an author, you have to write a bunch of bad books before you 80 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,080 write a good one. So I'm trying to like, write all 81 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,920 that bad stuff. But I thought I would submit it 82 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,880 because the prize was like, that chapter would get edited by a 83 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,240 professional editor. So I was like, that's really 84 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,600 cool. But I I didn't win. 85 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,360 Well, next time, Abby, next time you know too. 86 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,280 I, I should mention this more often, but partly why we're 87 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,960 doing this season, because it's been a year and a half since I 88 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,560 recorded my last season of help my Hybrid mobile is because I 89 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,600 will soon theoretically be an author. 90 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,360 It is crazy. The book is helping Hypermobile 91 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,000 and it's kind of a little bit the, the vibe of this podcast. 92 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,560 It's looking at the realities of life for people with HEDSHSD. 93 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,040 We touch on other hypermobility related connective tissue 94 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:21,680 disorders. And also we have to remember 95 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,960 that there are people who have generalized joint joint 96 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,800 hypermobility who are not diagnosed for whatever reason, 97 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,400 partly because diagnosis takes forever. 98 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,000 So tell me a little bit real quick about if I can, if you 99 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,840 don't mind me asking this, your earliest memory of being hyper 100 00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:38,320 mobile or that kind of affecting you? 101 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,480 Like, was it the injury we're going to talk about in a second 102 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:41,880 or was there something before that? 103 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,520 I mean, I've always been really flexible. 104 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,440 And people commented on that a lot as a kid. 105 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,640 Like even just a few weeks ago, I was hanging out with my sister 106 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,160 and we were both like trying to touch our toes because we just 107 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,720 finished hiking. And she was like, you've always 108 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,600 been able to do that. Like how is that? 109 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,880 A thing everyone does after hiking do you just like? 110 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,880 I don't know, just like stretching, I guess. 111 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,840 And I she, she just commented on it and it was that kind of 112 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,280 stuff. I think as a kid where like, you 113 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:07,960 know, when did you ever have to do those? 114 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,320 Like you probably didn't because where I grew up, they made you 115 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,400 basically do these like presidential fitness tests. 116 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,600 So one of the things you had to do was like touch your toes as 117 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,560 far as possible because you had to push the bar. 118 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,200 And I was just very, very good at that one. 119 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,880 And I would get the blue metal for doing that, which is like 120 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,480 the highest metal you could get. And I didn't really, I was like, 121 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,760 how is this a physical fitness challenge? 122 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,040 Like it's just pushing a bar past my feet. 123 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,840 So I was always flexible I guess, but I never really 124 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,040 noticed anything else before the injury. 125 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,160 OK so no like serious pain issues or stuff when you were 126 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,920 like 4 years old or whatever. No, in Canada at least in my gym 127 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,200 class we did have to do all these weird like measuring, 128 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,360 bending and stretching things. I think I touched like 20 129 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,920 centimeters past my toes, which is wild. 130 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,240 But it's not because I'm that flexible in my hips per SE, 131 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:00,920 although I am. I'm flexible is the wrong word 132 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,400 hypermobile I should be saying but I have really long arms and 133 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,480 a really long back and unfortunately short legs. 134 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:08,920 People say they're like normal length. 135 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,960 Maybe they are normal length, I don't know but compared. 136 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:14,120 Short legs on you. My arms and back are just so 137 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,200 long, you'll see. Like, you think I can't reach 138 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,160 something off the shelf and then my arms just come out. 139 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,920 It's it's like, you know, like what builders use those like 140 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,000 ladders that they like extend like this. 141 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:27,920 That's just. Say one of those like, you know, 142 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,520 those bendy things that stand outside car dealerships that, 143 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:31,760 like, wave in the wind? Yeah. 144 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,200 It's like that. It's like that. 145 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:35,640 They are heavy, long and large arms. 146 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,880 But enough about me. Let's talk about you back to 147 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,360 your back. Yeah, if I can say tell me like 148 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,000 what happened because you're just having to chill childhood. 149 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,960 Yeah, as one does life. I was on my school's basketball 150 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,240 team in elementary school and I played point guard, which was my 151 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,160 position. Basically, that's the person 152 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,960 that like brings the ball up the court and then tries to get the 153 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,000 ball to other people so they can score because I was short. 154 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,120 And that's what the short person typically does because you're 155 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,080 not that close to the basket. And the I'm from Ohio. 156 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,080 I think I need to say this because the girls who we were 157 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,640 playing against were a team from Kentucky. 158 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,400 And my mom was always like, oh, those corn fed girls from 159 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,880 Kentucky. Like you got to you got to be 160 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,720 like aggressive with them. And my dad was actually the 161 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,600 coach of the team, which is I think a little bit of context 162 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,600 here because he had been like, you know, giving me advice about 163 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,760 how to like get on the ball with the girl who I was like against. 164 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,520 And I was like, OK, I need to be really aggressive because she is 165 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,400 a lot larger than me. And when you are there's that 166 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,400 size differential. A lot of the time she can just 167 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,680 physically overpower me, which is what continually was 168 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,000 happening in this game. And so at this point, what I 169 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,600 remember before the injury occurred was I was, you know, 170 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,080 dribbling the ball down the court. 171 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,880 And this girl was again, trying to physically overpower me. 172 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,320 And I was really annoyed about it because this was like the 173 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,640 third or fourth time during the match that she had done this. 174 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,480 And I was like, it's unfair. It's a size differential. 175 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,200 So she tries to take the ball from me and I'm just just like 176 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,720 not letting that happen. So I like grip onto it really, 177 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,760 really tightly. And instead of just like, you 178 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,200 know, letting that go, typically the the referee will blow a 179 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,040 whistle when there's what they call a jump ball, when two of 180 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,520 the players like will not let go of the ball and they have to 181 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,080 separate and one team will get the ball. 182 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,720 But that didn't happen because it looked like there was still a 183 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,120 possibility for one of us to win this jump ball. 184 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:31,720 You were. Not letting. 185 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,720 Go. I was not letting go and instead 186 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,080 she basically was physically able to lift me by like me 187 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,799 grabbing onto the ball and drop me onto the floor and I landed 188 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,640 on my back, still holding the ball mind you, but she also 189 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,400 landed on top of me. Wait, so so. 190 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,840 We were kind of wrestling and I fell to the floor. 191 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,000 There's a word for this. So Dave, my boyfriend, he's 192 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,280 really into wrestling and I can't. 193 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:57,240 What's it? I don't even. 194 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,400 Know is it body slam? I think that's that's. 195 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,960 What I I didn't want to physically say body slam, but 196 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,000 that that's you got body slam. I got body slam and in that 197 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:13,560 moment I fractured my L4 and L5 vertebrates in my lower back on 198 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:20,200 both sides. I laid on the floor for a little 199 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,040 bit after this, but both of us were disqualified from the game 200 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,320 for this egregious fight. They claimed. 201 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,840 Well, they said that we were and there had been warnings 202 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,160 previously, you know, that you guys need to knock it off. 203 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:38,320 At this point though, I just kind of like hobbled off the 204 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,080 floor and like to the side of the court and was like, I don't 205 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,680 something doesn't feel normal. Did you have like sharp pain in 206 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,680 your back when you were taking those steps or was it just a 207 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:50,360 total blur for you in terms of? To be quite honest, it's really 208 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,720 a total blur. I, I think because I was in so 209 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,440 much pain. Do you know when like something 210 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,120 happens and you're in so much pain that you just cannot even 211 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,280 remember a lot of the the moments around? 212 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,880 Yeah, and bone pain, I find a specific, so I fractured 5 213 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,960 bones. And The thing is like when you 214 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:06,680 do a fracture again, people don't always know. 215 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:07,920 I've had patients where they think they've sprained 216 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:09,360 something. I send them for MRI, you know, 217 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,200 we, we see a fracture there. But bone pain, at least in my 218 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,160 experience, having fractured stuff before, it's like a very 219 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,600 deep like, oh, shoot type of pain. 220 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,160 There's like I've done a Boo Boo like this is a no, no yes. 221 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,120 No, it it what? From what I can remember, it was 222 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,920 very similar to that because even when I sat down, the pain 223 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,640 didn't go away. And like, at that age, I hadn't 224 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,600 experienced pain like this before. 225 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,200 Like I felt, you know, pain from stretching or pain from other 226 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,480 things, but never had I felt this acute intensity of pain. 227 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,360 And so it didn't go away. It just kept hurting. 228 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:50,560 And I like would complain to my PE teacher, like my back hurts. 229 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,600 I don't, I don't think I can like do this. 230 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,720 And I, I kept saying to my mom and I, I want to preface, no 231 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,120 shade to my mom. She has four children. 232 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,120 She was a full time pediatrician. 233 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,640 Like she was working her butt off to support our family. 234 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,800 But like she was also like, Abby, you're fine, go to school. 235 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,520 Abby, you're fine, go to school. And I was like, mom, but my back 236 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,040 really hurts and she's like, it's going to be OK, go to 237 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,360 school. So I kept going to school, but I 238 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,160 failed a test for the first time. 239 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,400 And so my teacher called up my mom and was like, I think 240 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,960 there's something wrong with Abby because she's never done 241 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,200 this poorly on an assignment before. 242 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,080 And I, I just think that maybe you should look into it. 243 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,560 So my mom finally agreed to take me to the doctor. 244 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,600 So I went to the doctor and the first thing the doctor really 245 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,440 asked me to do was like touch my toes. 246 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,360 And that's one of the things I had always been, as we had been 247 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,720 saying, really good at. I couldn't like get past my 248 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,040 hips. I like, bent over as far as I 249 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,560 could and like this my, my arms were coming like to my thighs. 250 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,520 I was like, this is it, This is all I got. 251 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,920 And I'm almost like 00. And then I went to go get an MRI 252 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,680 and I had all those the, the fractures. 253 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,280 And she was like, OK, yeah, this is this is a serious injury. 254 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:11,640 And then I had to wear a back brace for like 6 to 8 months, I 255 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,160 think. And it also coincided with, you 256 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,160 know, being at this point I was 12 years old. 257 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,200 So I was, it's a very formative, you know, time in your life. 258 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,960 I couldn't play the rest of the season out for basketball. 259 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,600 And it was also meant to switch schools like to the to middle 260 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,560 school in the next year. And I was just, I was feeling 261 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:38,760 very defeated because my entire social scene had really been 262 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,000 around. I was dance and basketball like 263 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,280 I would did ballet and tap and jazz. 264 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,400 And then I also played basketball. 265 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,160 And so all my friends really had been. 266 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,360 I'd gone to a small school, so that wasn't really an issue. 267 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,360 But I planned when I switched schools to join like, you know, 268 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,360 the sports teams and make new friends that way. 269 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,200 And back then too, like you, like me, kind of grew up pre 270 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,040 Internet being huge. It's like the way that kids 271 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,040 played was like, go outside, like your friends were doing 272 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,440 things. Your Razor scooter? 273 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,560 Yeah, exactly. Remember from those, but yeah, 274 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,280 like it's like you couldn't, it's like you're like some 275 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,520 online community you could be a part of. 276 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,040 Like there were really these same types of like ways people 277 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,400 can are 12. Year olds in. 278 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:19,760 Online commercial, I don't know what kids do I have two cats, 279 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,400 but like people can like I don't know you can play video games 280 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,160 and stuff right yeah, it's. True, I had Animal Crossing. 281 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,920 Animal Crossing. You probably got a lot of Animal 282 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,080 Crossing in. I I did. 283 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,440 Were you scared of Rosati? Absolutely. 284 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,560 I had nightmares about that guy. I'm. 285 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:36,600 Still scared to open up that game like I that is a we're 286 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,120 keeping that close. That is the stuff of a 287 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,040 nightmare. Yeah, yeah. 288 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,920 If you're someone who plays Animal Crossing, you'll you'll 289 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,320 get this. If you don't, then you're going 290 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,640 to be really. But anyway, so you got all this 291 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,720 going on now. When was hypermobile they 292 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,160 mentioned like when did that come up or start? 293 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,600 So it's. Actually really interesting 294 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,600 because the concept of being hypermobile wasn't brought up to 295 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:05,520 me until I think 2022 because I, you know, I did a bunch of 296 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,320 physical therapy to recover from this injury. 297 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,760 I didn't participate in a lot of like, physical activity for a 298 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,880 really long time. But then in 2022, I was doing my 299 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,840 master's degree and I was writing my dissertation, and I 300 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,720 had to sit down all the time at my desk and just force myself to 301 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,240 write. But at that point, I hadn't 302 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,160 really been. I mean, I want a pretty 303 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,600 sedentary lifestyle during the COVID times and whatnot, but 304 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,880 like, I hadn't spent hours upon hours in the same exact position 305 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,760 doing nothing. And so my back was like really 306 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,840 starting to hurt. And it was that it wasn't the 307 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,440 exact same pain, but it was in the same spot. 308 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,400 So I was like, I think I need to go back to the doctor like this. 309 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,280 I haven't experienced the pain to this degree in so long. 310 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,320 I I should see somebody. So I went back. 311 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,920 I still was able to go to the Children's Hospital at this 312 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,480 time. Wait in America like. 313 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:05,800 How old are you? 23 this. 16 yeah, 18 but like 314 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,320 20. So because my mom's affiliated 315 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,840 with the hospital, I think they made an exception for weird. 316 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,320 Pediatrics is the best. Like I when I had my jaw surgery 317 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,640 done, we'll talk about another episode, but like, yeah, I, I 318 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,880 got like I somehow I got into the Pediatrics. 319 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,480 That's where it's, it is. I find it's a more positive 320 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,240 healthcare. They're nicer to you? 321 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,800 Yeah, you're because you're technically a child, even though 322 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,840 I was not. And there was some Unicorn 323 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,360 wallpaper which made me just happy. 324 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,760 So anyways. So I went to the Children's 325 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,720 Hospital to get this to basically just get reassessed by 326 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,840 a physician there. And I, one of the things they 327 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,280 asked me to do classic touch your toes. 328 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,400 So I bend down, I touch my toes. And the doctor is astonished by 329 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,240 this. She's like, hold on, I need to 330 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,920 bring in some medical students to witness this. 331 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,160 I'm like, why? Like it's just touching your 332 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,480 toes. And she's like, yes, but this is 333 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,360 a classic example of hypermobility. 334 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,320 And I was like, I don't know what that is. 335 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,280 She's like, you have very hypermobile knees. 336 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:04,600 Has anybody ever told you that before? 337 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,640 I'm like, no, I don't know what that is. 338 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,600 It's really hard when like people just say these things 339 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,320 about you would really explain it. 340 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,240 I I can find that and it's it's great that she picked up on it. 341 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,080 It just seems like that would have been quite a like 342 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,760 surprising or a lot to take. In exactly and then when you 343 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,440 bring in all these other medical students to like make me do 344 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,920 weird positions, I felt like like somebody at the circus like 345 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,240 I don't know it, it was it was a very strange situation and then 346 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,080 like they made me do things with my arms and I'd always like when 347 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,600 I raised my arm up, people in school had made fun of me 348 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,040 because my elbow like I don't know if you could see just from 349 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,760 doing this, but like my elbow joints are a bit strange they'll 350 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,840 like point forward in some sort of ways so I I had an idea that 351 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,200 like my joints were a bit odd, but I'd never. 352 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,880 Thought about you know, you were quirky. 353 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,040 I think like I think everyone would do hypermobile or for 354 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,160 people go on to be diagnosed with HDS or HSD. 355 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,880 I've had patients with Marfan syndrome because again it by the 356 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,120 way, it's really hard to talk about this stuff. 357 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,760 I don't leave anyone out, but there are people undiagnosed HSD 358 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,880 Marfan syndromes. I don't know other ones, 359 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,280 whatever. But all of these people, they 360 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,160 always tend to have a sense, even if, like, their symptoms 361 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,800 are pretty minimal, that there's something different about them 362 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,680 because they'll like to. Like for me, it was being the 20 363 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,599 year old who wanted to sit on the floor at dinner parties. 364 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:23,800 They're like, let me get you a chair. 365 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,440 I'm like, no, they're like, don't you want to sit in a 366 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,359 chair? And I'm like, please, no, 367 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,079 because I and I didn't know I was getting blood pooling. 368 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,240 But it's like these little quirky things will kind of be 369 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,840 sprinkled throughout people's youth. 370 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,440 And then they start, we know what, when you figure out what's 371 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:36,360 going on. Yeah. 372 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:37,960 And it's like, oh, this all makes sense. 373 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,440 But yeah. So all these medical students 374 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,880 came in the room making all these like different types of 375 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,160 orthopedic tests and whatnot. What happened? 376 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,600 Did you get any like guidance from there or were you just kind 377 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,240 of down to the wind? Go to physical therapy. 378 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,320 And it was the same sort of stuff that I've been told to do 379 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,040 over and over again, like as a kid, which is like stand and 380 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,680 hold this chair and move your leg out to a 45° angle, bracing 381 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,440 your core. And like do this over and over 382 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,080 again. And like do planks and lay and 383 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,000 sit on the ground and put your back up against a wall and, you 384 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,200 know, touch your toes and, you know, feel your hamstrings. 385 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,440 Like, and all this stuff that I was like, I don't know, it like 386 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,400 kind of helped in some ways. Like the core stuff have always 387 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,480 been sort of drilled into my brain. 388 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,760 But I nothing that anybody had ever really said made my body 389 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,080 feel any better or made me feel more comfortable moving in my 390 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,960 body. No, it's a really common 391 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,600 experience. I think the whole like get 392 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,880 physio thing is really problematic because not all 393 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,120 manual therapy is the same and not all rehabilitative exercise 394 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,000 approaches are the same. So a lot of patients, they're 395 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,680 seeing people in this field. And again, I know that some 396 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,840 people disagree with me, but when a patient's seen someone 397 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,160 for, they're told to get physio, like I'm an osteopath. 398 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,920 I do manual therapy on my patients. 399 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,480 I also prescribe rehabilitative exercises, which is what a lot 400 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,760 of physiotherapists will do and what some chiropractors will do. 401 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,720 All those chiropractors sometimes will adjust people, 402 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,760 but again, some won't. So the whole field. 403 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,720 My dream is that it all becomes one, like United Professional 404 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,240 one day, and I know some people disagree with me on that, but 405 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,680 that's fine. This is the Alex Show you. 406 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,360 Can say what you want. That's my opinion. 407 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,800 But when you're told to like get musculoskeletal expert support 408 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,080 or whatever is meant by get physio, I think the big problem 409 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,600 there is it's like if I told you like Abby, like we're in London, 410 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,480 go get some pasta. There are good pasta 411 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,000 restaurants, There's bad pasta restaurants. 412 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,600 There's different. Yeah, there's like all different 413 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,400 types. Like that patient needs to be 414 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,880 told, hey, you're hypermobile. I want you to see a 415 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,680 physiotherapist or osteopath or whatever who specializes in 416 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,080 working with people who are hypermobile so you can get 417 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,000 correct support for your injury. Because otherwise you're just 418 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,840 being given like the standard treatment when you are someone 419 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,520 with particular. So like I kind of got lucky in 420 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,160 this way because I saw the physio at the Children's 421 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,240 Hospital like once or twice. And then my mom was like, why 422 00:19:54,240 --> 00:20:00,680 don't you see my physio? This guy in Cincinnati who I, I 423 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,800 think his name is Andy, I believe. 424 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,440 And I went to go see him once. But I, I live in London, so I 425 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,080 was just on holiday, like visiting my parents. 426 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,280 And she was like, just see him one time before you go home. 427 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,040 So I went and I saw her guy and he did like ART on me. 428 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,680 And I was like, oh, this? This is really, I feel a lot 429 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,960 better after this. I'd I'd never had that 430 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,000 experience where a physio was able to address my pain rather 431 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,360 than just like give me exercises. 432 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,000 So I asked him. I was like, do you have any 433 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,280 contacts in London or do you know anybody in London who sort 434 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,280 of does this type of movement? And he was like, yeah, I'll send 435 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,560 you a name. And he sent me Alex's name. 436 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,960 And I, that's how like we sort of met and I was able to get on 437 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,160 this current journey that I find myself on of addressing the pain 438 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,480 in a more, I think, constructive way. 439 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,840 Yeah, We could talk more about kind of what we're doing these 440 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:57,920 days. I should say also like you're my 441 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,640 patient, just fill. I just banged the mic, I'm 442 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:01,920 sorry. That's okay. 443 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,640 Adjusting my legs. Fidgeting is necessary here. 444 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,320 I love how to and I'm like, you can take your shoes off you like 445 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,320 Yep, taking those off OK, and I've seen you in every pretzel 446 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,000 variation so far. You can put your feet on the 447 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:11,880 table too. I don't care. 448 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,960 But yeah, no, when it comes to what we're talking about, we're 449 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,240 talking about like referrals. And yeah, you, Oh yeah, you, you 450 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,880 had active release techniques. You had ARTI should say active 451 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,640 release techniques is a specific type of manual therapy protocol. 452 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,160 So there's specific techniques done in specific ways. 453 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,880 And again, I don't have a relationship with them other 454 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,200 than the fact that I pay for their certifications because I 455 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,400 think their courses are really good. 456 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,680 So I'm not like an instructor. I don't work with the company. 457 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,800 I just really value their certifications and it's one of 458 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,440 the, you know, it's one of the postgraduate things like I look 459 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,200 for when I'm looking to see someone for treatment just 460 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,360 because I regard it that highly. The reason for this is they make 461 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:52,040 you recertify. So you've heard me talk about 462 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,760 after on these courses and do exams every year cost me money, 463 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,320 takes up my time, but it's good. And I still get nervous. 464 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,680 I get like sweaty little, like shaking hands, like trying to 465 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:00,960 make sure I'm doing everything right. 466 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,280 But what it does is it does mean that there's some type of degree 467 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,280 of standardization. It's medical. 468 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,800 Yeah, exactly. It's like. 469 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,120 You're a medical professional to be qualified. 470 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,240 And I can say, look, I did this protocol and let's say that you 471 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,640 moved to, I have a colleague in Berlin. 472 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,120 I you say say that you moved to Berlin. 473 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,320 I could tell my colleague in Berlin, hey, I've done this 474 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,720 protocol and this one and this one, they seem to help. 475 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,160 Abby, could you continue with those? 476 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,400 And we like speak the same language. 477 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,040 So I think there's a lot of value in active release 478 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,840 techniques. And it is this a certification 479 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,560 that I continue to maintain. What I also like about it too, 480 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,080 is the fact you're moving when you do it. 481 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,880 So it, I find it works really well for people who need to be 482 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,480 able to move. And there's a lot of different 483 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,360 ways I think that that affects the the muscles and the joints 484 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,160 and the tissues and the neurological function of that 485 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,160 patient. But that's that's a whole other 486 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,920 science podcast. We won't get into that today. 487 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,240 But yeah, I'm a big fan of ART. You are too. 488 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,800 And I think for hyper mobile people, when it's done 489 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,360 correctly, and I want to specify it's not designed or developed 490 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,240 for people who are hyper mobile. OK. 491 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,800 But I find that it can be used when it's adapted and modified 492 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,960 to the individual patient, which is how all treatment should be 493 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,240 done. You know, you want to always do 494 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,280 patient centered care. I think it can be a very 495 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,360 effective treatment modality. So it's my primary form of of 496 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,040 manual therapy for my patients. But yeah, that's how you found 497 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:14,880 me. Exactly. 498 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,520 And here we are. Here we are, here we are. 499 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,720 So you went through basically you had this really serious 500 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,000 injury occur in childhood. You were then basically told, we 501 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,640 talked about this a bit earlier, but you were told like don't do 502 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,040 exercise. Yeah. 503 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,760 And you just kind of. It was like more that they said 504 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,120 don't do like high intensity physical exercise. 505 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,040 And as a kid, when you're 12 years old, the only type of 506 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,400 physical exercise you're really going to be doing is high 507 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,720 intensity physical exercise like. 508 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,200 You're not going to be going to. The pool and like, oh, I'm going 509 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,280 to swim laps like a 12 year old's not going to do that. 510 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,520 So I was just really, oh, I mean, I guess if you're on the 511 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,640 swim team, sorry, styles to. You for four hours a day No, but 512 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,000 like The thing is too like even if you don't do the high stuff, 513 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,520 you can't injure yourself too. This whole because I was told 514 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,920 like you they like don't do any high impact exercises. 515 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,720 So I took their advice yeah, but then I just did a lot of low 516 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,240 impact exercise which can also injure you so. 517 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,200 I basically took that as an excuse to just like not 518 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,800 exercise. And in some ways it was really, 519 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,320 it was a positive impact on my life because it made me learn 520 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,080 how to socialize in different ways rather than just being on, 521 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,800 you know, sports teams and having built in friends that 522 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,840 way. But it was also really negative 523 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,880 because I couldn't really participate in a lot of 524 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,600 different sports activities. And though that had been a big 525 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,920 part of my life and my family's pretty athletic and all of us 526 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,760 played sports growing up. And it just, it changed the way 527 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,920 that I, the relationship that I had with my body and being able 528 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,400 to trust my body. I felt like instead of my body 529 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,000 being like me being a part of my body, I was like kind of at war 530 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:58,360 with my body and that I never knew how something I would do 531 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:01,440 was going to affect me. And I started to become hyper 532 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,040 aware of just the different movements that I did or how 533 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,960 sitting in a position for too long would hurt or just things 534 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,240 that I think when you were a teenager and you know, go with 535 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,400 that teen, early teens, you aren't really supposed to be 536 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,640 thinking about. You're supposed to just be 537 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240 enjoying your life and figuring out things about yourself. 538 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,160 But like this, this really impacted that for me. 539 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,080 And so I didn't, I didn't participate in really any 540 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,560 physical activity. I tried to run cross country, 541 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,000 which ended up hurting my back a bit. 542 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,400 I tried to play basketball again, which I had to quit 543 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,120 because it just was too bad. And then eventually I played 544 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:42,880 softball for a little bit in high school, but it, it just 545 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,960 like wasn't a positive experience. 546 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,480 The only thing that I did, and I don't think we've ever talked 547 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,960 about this before, which I'm going to probably surprise you a 548 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,200 little bit. The only thing I did between 549 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,560 like age 18 to 21, I did a little bit of pole fitness. 550 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:04,360 Yeah, there was AI had this music teacher in where I grew up 551 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,680 in Cincinnati, who she was really into pole fitness and she 552 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,960 was like, I think you should try this. 553 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,440 But you couldn't do it until you were 18 because of like the 554 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,560 regulations and whatever. And so when I was 18, I started 555 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,080 doing it and I started like gaining a little bit of muscle, 556 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,280 but I also realized how like I hadn't moved in any sort of way 557 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,560 and so long and I couldn't do a lot of movements that you needed 558 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,080 to do. I was still flexible, but I 559 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,680 wasn't like able to, I was not able to bend my body in a lot of 560 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,520 positions because I felt like my hips would hurt if I did 561 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,800 something in the wrong way or like I didn't have the built up 562 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,040 strength necessary to do it. And so I would go like once a 563 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,480 week. I did that like my senior year 564 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,200 of high school, and then in college I did it a little bit 565 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,080 too, but not like a ton to the point where by the time COVID 566 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,520 hit I pretty much was just sedentary all the time. 567 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,080 OK, so did it get, did it help you get pull ups and stuff? 568 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,680 Like did you do any upper body strength training to help? 569 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,240 You. I didn't know strength training 570 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,760 except for the like I was. The thing I felt most 571 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,240 accomplished about was being able to climb the pole all the 572 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,440 way to the top and slide back down like a firefighter. 573 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,600 That's a very, yeah, that's a very interesting routine. 574 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,440 Well, it's not even really upper body, it's that's full legs and 575 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,560 you just like stick your shin onto the pole and drive it in. 576 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,480 And that hurt so bad. But I was like, this is really 577 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,200 cool. But one of the things I noticed 578 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,800 is how badly I would bruise after these things because like 579 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,360 you will get some bruising. My bruising was always so much 580 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:32,720 worse than. It's a type of quirky thing. 581 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,720 Like you get childhood photos of you as well. 582 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,400 You're going to be way more bruised than your friends. 583 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,320 It's one of those other little things that just comes up for. 584 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,560 People and also just like scars on my body. 585 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,400 So like, when I was 13, I was at summer camp and I did a like 586 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,200 mudslide and I stood up and I had this giant gash in the 587 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,480 middle of my leg. And I had to get this, like, 588 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,960 metal thing that had somehow gotten into my leg removed. 589 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,600 And the doctor just like, glued it back up. 590 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,440 And there's this huge scar right here that like, never fully 591 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,080 healed. I forgot that was what that was 592 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:08,720 from. There's yeah, scars, other 593 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,320 things. You had a very North American 594 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,800 childhood. I love hearing about, like 595 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,760 summer camp, you know, all these things. 596 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,960 So you kind of, you were navigating things. 597 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,000 OK. A lot of my patients do pull, by 598 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,720 the way. It's a really common type of 599 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,720 exercise because. It's low intensity. 600 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,840 Yeah, I love it. And it's it's upper body 601 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,560 pulling. Yeah. 602 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,560 I think you know how I feel about pull ups. 603 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,160 You know how I feel about upper body strength training. 604 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,920 I think it's critical. We talked a little bit. 605 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,880 We touched on my like really long arms at the start, you 606 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,640 know, neck pain was kind of my worst thing. 607 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,160 And having the strength, the interscapular muscle region 608 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,960 strength, so kind of upper mid back strength to be able to hold 609 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,160 my shoulder blades in place and do things with my upper body has 610 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,120 involved me so much because it helps me control the weight of 611 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,760 my long arms. OK, so we don't just like go in 612 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,640 wild and yeah, on my neck and whatever. 613 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,560 But for you. So you had pull and then COVID 614 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,720 happened and because. You couldn't really exit like 615 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,760 you could be in like exercise. And at that point also like I 616 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,840 had, I like tried to go to the gym a little bit in college and 617 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,320 like did one of those apps like where, you know, they scheduled 618 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,680 workouts for you. No, it was like one of the I 619 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,800 don't even know what it's called. 620 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,320 I don't want to plug anybody's apps. 621 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,680 That probably isn't very. Bad. 622 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,360 This show, we have no, no sponsors. 623 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,240 Anyone's listening. I'm just saying. 624 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,080 She was like some personal trainer that I'd seen like 625 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,080 online or something and I was like, oh, maybe I'll try her app 626 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,160 and why? Not it was. 627 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,800 Fine, but I also had no idea what I was doing and so I was 628 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,760 kind of embarrassed to just go to the gym, not know what I was 629 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,080 doing. And so I didn't really do that 630 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,600 so frequently. And then COVID happened and then 631 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,360 I was doing yoga in my apartment in New York City and suffering, 632 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,280 but like only a few times a week, not like intensive or 633 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,640 anything. And you know, when you're not 634 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,760 moving, you put on weight, like you start to feel worse in your 635 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600 body in a lot of ways that I mean, personally for me, I'm, I 636 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,160 know other people, you know, might have different opinions 637 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,120 about how they move and what they like to do. 638 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,360 But for me, that sedentary lifestyle started to hurt me 639 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,600 more than it helped. It's so confusing when lying 640 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,640 down her too, and then standing up her too, and walking her too, 641 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,120 and sitting in her too. It's like, what do I do? 642 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,920 By the way, I love that you talk with your hands. 643 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,800 You're like me, but your hand keeps going in front of the 644 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,920 camera. Oh, I'm sorry. 645 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,760 Camera. Just like, because otherwise 646 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,600 we're gonna have like 100% footage of you. 647 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,560 It's OK. I love it. 648 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,840 I love it. But look, you talked earlier 649 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,800 too, about feeling like you're at war with your body. 650 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,720 I think that was a really important statement. 651 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,920 I did a video, not that you'll have seen it because you aren't 652 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,040 on social media really, but I I did a video. 653 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,400 It's one of my first kind of ones to go a bit viral where I 654 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,440 talked about not feeling at home and my body so like my shoulder 655 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,840 wouldn't feel settled and that fear of your body kind of 656 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,040 betraying you where you're doing everything right. 657 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,600 Like because all these hyper mobile young people, you know, 658 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,160 they're the people I was eating like spinach. 659 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,680 I was doing yoga, you know, doing like all these. 660 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,880 I was eating sour candy, yes. Well, some, some of us more than 661 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,200 others, but it's like you'll be doing everything right, Right, 662 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,240 Like you did your physio exercises and whatnot. 663 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,080 And then I complained the whole way though but. 664 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,400 That's that's a necessary part of everything. 665 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,120 But but you don't things don't just they you don't have that 666 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,040 same recovery outcome. And then it's so disorienting 667 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,480 and confusing. I know about know about you, but 668 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,640 I felt like a failure. Oh, absolutely. 669 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,480 I felt like a failure. I also felt like a failure 670 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,800 because I was like, well, I guess I will never be able to. 671 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,400 You know, I loved playing basketball, I loved dancing, I 672 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,760 loved all those things. And I'm just like, well, I guess 673 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,320 the things I like, it doesn't matter anymore that I like them. 674 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,160 I will never accomplish the things that I wanted to 675 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,040 accomplish. And your goals have to change. 676 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,920 And also at that age, it's really hard to pivot because you 677 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,720 have your heart set on things. And again, like you have your 678 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,880 friends, you have your social scene through all of it. 679 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,040 And then when that has to change too you, you feel like a failure 680 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,400 in more ways than just one. No, absolutely. 681 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,920 And did anyone think you were lazy? 682 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200 I know that's something I got. Yeah, I'd be going for around. 683 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,680 There's this one, one friend and her dad, and they were runners. 684 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,440 And I like, you know, I did a triathlon with her and other 685 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,760 stuff. So I'd like to go for runs with 686 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,120 them sometimes in my teens. And I would always be like, oh, 687 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,880 my shoulders hurt when we were running. 688 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,520 And the dad would just kind of rolls eyes, like, oh, Alex, 689 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,000 like, you know, stop being lazy. And it's like my shoulders were 690 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,320 in agony. And now that I can run without 691 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,120 shoulder pain, I understand you're waiting. 692 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,120 Yeah. But I get to, like, that was 693 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,840 messed up. Like, that's an unstable 694 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,720 shoulder just jostling around in the joint. 695 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,920 Yeah. Hurting, but it's it's hard just 696 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,440 when you want to just be normal. Yeah, just two things. 697 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,320 Just just go for a ride. Exactly. 698 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,720 Nothing too hard. About a dance class. 699 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,120 So look. So we went through all that. 700 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,560 You saw the art provider in Cincinnati, I think you said. 701 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,760 You then got referred to me. You saw me. 702 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,960 How has your journey evolved since then? 703 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,160 Do you take me through a bit of that? 704 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,160 So okay, I think you can be honest by the way. 705 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,560 I will, I will. So one of the things I started 706 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,320 doing even before I started seeing you. 707 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,640 So this was like between seeing the art provider in Cincinnati 708 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,880 and then making my first appointment with you, I was 709 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,960 like, what's something that I feel not super intimidated by in 710 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,480 terms of physical activity that I could try? 711 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,360 So I started going to spin classes only once a week. 712 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,400 And that helped to some degree of like getting me to start 713 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,040 moving again in a way that I thought was fun because I don't 714 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,280 know why I found that like those, those PT exercises I was 715 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,760 given to be just absolutely dreadfully boring and not 716 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,600 useful. And I didn't want to do them 717 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,360 because I dreaded doing them. So I was like, I know that this 718 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,520 isn't really, you know, building that much strength, but what's 719 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,320 fun for me to do? So I started. 720 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,040 It's important. Yeah. 721 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,600 So I started going to spin classes. 722 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,760 I loved being like in the dark with the the lights and the 723 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,360 instructor yelling at you. Can I just fly? 724 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,120 So I did that. I did the exact same thing. 725 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,560 So spin was really important to me because I couldn't go out 726 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:50,960 clubbing. AI had no friends. 727 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,400 BI hate. Clubbing. 728 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,680 No, but I know what you mean. I hate clubbing, but I love 729 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,320 being in the club. Exercising, Yeah. 730 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,800 Exactly. So for me, my clubbing was like 731 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,400 Saturday morning, like 8:00 AM spin class same like. 732 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,160 I, I, I just am, so I don't know, I, I'm not saying I'm anti 733 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,239 alcohol. I will drink, but like I'm not a 734 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,239 like, let me get hammered and go to the club kind of person 735 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,480 because of all of my experiences with that have been negative. 736 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,320 Standing, standing I, I one time I, I don't get too much like 737 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,719 negative stuff online, partly because I haven't posted 738 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,199 forever, partly because I just try to avoid that stuff if I 739 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:25,800 can. But one of the videos I did have 740 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,920 some really lousy comments on it was where I talked about how 741 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,360 like I struggle with standing for long periods of time. 742 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,719 Like I would rather do 4 CrossFit classes or I don't 743 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,159 know, like go for AI don't know any type of any type of physical 744 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:37,560 activity. I would probably pick that over 745 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,520 standing for half an hour like anything. 746 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,199 A. 100% I agree with you. Yeah, standing because of the 747 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,199 blood pooling. It's because of how it starts to 748 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:46,560 hurt. Extending my knees is one of the 749 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,239 worst things that like I can physically do to myself. 750 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,840 I went to a Vampire Weekend all standing concert at the 751 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,679 Hammersmith Apollo last year, which was really, really fun. 752 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,280 But the entire time I like was trying to focus on the concert, 753 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,480 but also was just thinking my knees really hurt right now 754 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,320 because I'm hyperextending my knees and like I had to stand on 755 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,720 one leg, stand on the other leg, try and squat down a little bit 756 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,840 sometimes just to like engage the correct muscles. 757 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,280 Like I was so constantly hyper aware of how my body feels in 758 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,560 that moment rather than being able to be present and enjoy the 759 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,520 thing. So sometimes it's like, not even 760 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,680 worth going to a concert that I really want to go to if I'm not 761 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,920 going to enjoy myself, dude, 'cause I have to stay. 762 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,200 I've never been to a concert. I'm like, I know I really want 763 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,600 to go to 1. I know we need I will do it one 764 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,520 day. Well, tell me when there's a 765 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,200 good one, I will go. But yeah, it's partly I was 766 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,640 always like trying to think, why don't I want to go to 1? 767 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,440 And it took me a long time to realize that it's because stand 768 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,080 is standing in line, likes to get in, having to stand to watch 769 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,120 it. Like that's just a whole box of 770 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,760 horrors. Have you seen those like 771 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,000 collapsible stools? My boyfriend's sister has one of 772 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,120 them and she always brings them when I'm around her and go out 773 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,920 with her but like does she? Bring it for. 774 00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,520 You Well, she wasn't at this concert. 775 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,880 She actually had to sell her ticket last minute, so we all 776 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,600 went without her anyway. But it was we did go a few years 777 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,320 ago to a music festival in Gunnersbury Park. 778 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:09,920 Nice. Where I know Gunnersbury. 779 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,000 Yeah, yeah, We saw MUNA. I don't know if you know that. 780 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,320 I don't know MUNA. They're a band from America. 781 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,400 And Boy Genius was the other band who was playing there. 782 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,560 And we, she brought the little stool and we were just like 783 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,360 sitting and standing and sitting and standing on the little 784 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,000 school together. It was really fun. 785 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,360 So she has inspired me to consider purchasing one of them. 786 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,440 But also I think it's less weird doing it outside than it would 787 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,240 be inside. Yeah, so I asked Dave, I'm like, 788 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:37,960 because I, I, I didn't get to clubbing as much as I didn't get 789 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,280 to very much at all, right. So I, I know I'm old now, but 790 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,600 like, I have like a dream of like, you know, seeing this. 791 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:43,920 I know, I know it's not how it is anymore. 792 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,560 I know all the nightclub venues are shining, but you know, like 793 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,920 what it's presented as being. I like wish I could have 794 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,720 experienced that. And I asked Dave, I'm like, can 795 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,480 I bring like a collapsible stool to a nightclub? 796 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,440 And he's like, probably not because they might think it's 797 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:55,240 like a back then. Yes. 798 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:56,480 You're not supposed to bring seating. 799 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,600 You're supposed to pay for seating. 800 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,280 I don't want to pay for seating. I don't want to down for two 801 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,280 minutes exactly That's it Go to the bathroom, sit on the toilet. 802 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,280 Dude, I've done that. Like the few times I go out I'm 803 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,200 like exactly take and make my sweet time Abby in terms of. 804 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,600 Oh sorry, I forgot to talk about the actual thing you asked me 805 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,440 about, like my journey back into fitness. 806 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,800 We got on a tangent. That's OK. 807 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,280 Journey into life. Yeah. 808 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,680 Tell me about fitness. So OK, so I started doing the 809 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,120 spin classes, yeah. And then I was like, OK, I'm 810 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,320 noticing that this is a positive thing in my life, but I also, I 811 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,360 still feel in pain in a lot of ways that I don't know how to 812 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,120 address. So I'm not entirely sure what 813 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,800 sparked it. Like there wasn't one morning 814 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,320 where I woke up and I was like, I'm going to start lifting 815 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,280 weights. But I moved into a building that 816 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,480 had a gym in it. And I was like, well, my spin 817 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,400 studio now is kind of far from where I currently live. 818 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:58,960 And I, I have a gym here and my parents have a Peloton and with 819 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,520 you have a Peloton and you like have the group membership, you 820 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,760 can basically put other people on your membership like your 821 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,600 children in this case, and they can use the classes that are on 822 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,080 the app. So I was like, fantastic, I'm 823 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,800 going to do the beginning strength Peloton classes. 824 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,160 Why not? Why not? 825 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,520 Because I have a gym now that I pay for in my rent, I might as 826 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,480 well use it. So I started doing that and I 827 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,480 would my goal to myself was like, I'm going to go to the gym 828 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:32,640 once a week for 30 minutes and try and strength train. 829 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,080 That's such a sensible amount. So many people, they're like, 830 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,520 I'm going to go to the gym like an hour like every other day. 831 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:38,840 And that is how you crash and burn. 832 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,760 Yeah, you were like, I'm just going to see if I can survive. 833 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,360 Yes. For me, it was more about like, 834 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,720 am I going to hurt myself? Yeah. 835 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,480 This is we, we talked to us, we talked to us a lot, I think. 836 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,120 And you know, I work with you as a patient, but it's like 837 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,560 trialling things and tests, you know, you can always do more, 838 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,960 you know, So that's, let's just take it slow. 839 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,560 So you did this experiment. You survived. 840 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,840 Well, the first few times I I did like very I didn't do. 841 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,200 I just did body weight exercises. 842 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,880 Like I didn't really do that much weight. 843 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,320 And what I realized was that I actually liked having a goal 844 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,800 that was outside of work and outside of, you know, my social 845 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,160 life. That was just for me. 846 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,440 What was your goal? My goal was to just go to the 847 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,360 gym once a week and just to show the thing, like show up because 848 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,480 I don't know, after you graduate and you're in the real world and 849 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,400 you're living your life, it's like, how do you how do I 850 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,200 continue to challenge myself in ways? 851 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,080 And like, you know, I was always that kid that liked to succeed 852 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,480 at stuff and no one is giving you gold stars anymore. 853 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,440 So I was like, I need to do this for myself. 854 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,240 I started doing that with the gym. 855 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,960 After going and doing it, I was like, I, I kind of like this. 856 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,760 Like I don't know why I like it. I can't really put my finger on 857 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,040 what is positive about it for me. 858 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,680 But like I wasn't really starting to see any, any change 859 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,760 in my physical like pain. It was more just OK, this is 860 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,480 something that I'm trying. Can I ask you a question because 861 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,200 I think what some people enjoy, at least I know for me with 862 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,080 strength training what I enjoyed especially at the start. 863 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,680 Was feeling something other than pain, which sounds really dark 864 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,920 when you have chronic pain and then you go and you do something 865 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,640 to your muscles, you do an exercise correctly without 866 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,280 injuring yourself. Key is that you do it correctly 867 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:14,240 without injuring yourself. Yes. 868 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,080 You then have that feeling of healthy muscular fatigue 869 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,000 exactly, which is technically it's a healthy inflammatory 870 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,400 process. We're remodeling that tissue and 871 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,520 that feels so pleasant. Yes, yeah. 872 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,880 And I think kind of building off that also it's a when I'm in the 873 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,680 gym, I feel like I'm not using, yes, you're using your brain to 874 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,000 exercise, but like the loud and anxious thoughts are not as 875 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,880 present because my body is tired. 876 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,040 So it's not like my brain is also tired then. 877 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,240 And so the thoughts that are the compulsive anxiety that's 878 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,280 quieter. Have you heard of heavy work? 879 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,480 No, so I don't have diagnosed ADHD, but we, there's a lot I 880 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,880 do. There we go, there we go. 881 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,600 We all know how it is. But I used to, you know, I, I've 882 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,360 had boyfriends over the years and they come home and be like, 883 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,600 Alex, why have you moved all the furniture in the flat? 884 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,080 And it did tend to, you know, correlate with me being a bit 885 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,840 like anxious or something going on. 886 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,960 And for me, I started to realize when I learned about heavy work, 887 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,720 which is a term for types of exercise or, or movements or 888 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:17,280 different activities that people will do sometimes to kind of, 889 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,080 and again, I'm not a mental health expert, OK? 890 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,080 I have expertise, but it kind of like helps to calm you down a 891 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,040 bit and lets you just feel a bit more, as you said, like it takes 892 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,040 all those like scattered thoughts away and just makes you 893 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,880 feel more at peace. I guess I would say when I 894 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,680 learned about that, I was like, oh, This is why I really like 895 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,440 strength training. And for me, it's not even about 896 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,040 the physical aspects. Like my number one concern is 897 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,280 how my mental health would deteriorate if I'm not able to 898 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:40,640 exercise. That's my greatest fear. 899 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,840 I think you and I've talked about that, but yeah, that's 900 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,560 that's how you work. I relate to that so much. 901 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,080 Like, it just like silencing the obsessiveness in my brain is 902 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,240 really one of the main reasons that I workout. 903 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,160 Yeah. But so kind of like what you 904 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,880 were saying, I, I started like noticing those feelings that 905 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,320 like, it was quieter in my mind when I was doing this and I was 906 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,960 feeling things other than pain in my body. 907 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,080 And that's when I started to see you at this point. 908 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:15,960 And I told you about like, my physical pain and we started 909 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,680 addressing it. But you also were like, let's 910 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,720 try and work on your gym routine. 911 00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:22,960 Like do you do you do strength training? 912 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,720 And if so, what do you do? So we would like talk about what 913 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:27,800 I did and you would recommend things. 914 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,120 And I started actually not just like, you know, doing my like 915 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,400 lifting 3 kilogram weights or five kilogram weights that, you 916 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,880 know, you see all the people at the gym who say they don't want 917 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,960 to get bulky lift like the Pilates girls. 918 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,560 No, no shade to the Pilates girls. 919 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,280 You do you, but like we. We love Pilates like the whole 920 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:46,720 what do you call Pilates Princess body. 921 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:48,640 Have you heard of this? It's crazy to me. 922 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,360 It's yeah, it's. Terrifying. 923 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,640 I have no shade to the Pilates girls. 924 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,280 Some of my best friends are Pilates girls. 925 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,160 And if that's what you want to do, do it, girl. 926 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,120 But you should be, I think people should be from a health 927 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,880 as a health care provider, OK. I think people can train or do 928 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,200 exercise for whatever reason they want. 929 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,920 But if you're looking to reduce your pain or manage your 930 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,960 symptoms, we need to be be prioritizing functionality over 931 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:10,680 visual appearance. And I just say that because I 932 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,240 used to get really self-conscious of having large 933 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:14,560 shoulders. I have a large Bony frame. 934 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,040 I just do have a, you know, large shoulders. 935 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,640 And I was really, really nervous to put muscle mass on them. 936 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,560 But the muscle mass of my very muscular, very quite bulky to be 937 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,760 on his shoulder. Yeah. 938 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,120 I don't have shoulder pain all the time. 939 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,560 And it's like, I think back to when I was so scared of being 940 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,160 big. And it's like, you know, when 941 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,920 you start to read discussions of how people sometimes feel about 942 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,400 taking up space, like I was, it came from a lot of different 943 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,080 places, but I was so scared to take up space. 944 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,560 And that's heartbreaking, you know, So it's like, again, 945 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,880 people can want whatever they want, but just if you're 946 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,920 listening to this and you're nervous to take up space, so 947 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,480 you're nervous about looking bulky or big, like maybe try and 948 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,440 reframe it, at least for me, by focusing as you did on what I'm 949 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,920 trying to achieve. So I just for me, the path to 950 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,000 getting into the healthy or as healthy as possible place I am 951 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,360 now was to think of like, how can I do different movements? 952 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,360 How can I keep it improving? You know myself and the function 953 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,320 of my body. Also, you're not going to get 954 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,920 bulky like you're not going to get bulky. 955 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,040 You have to actively try to get bulky to get bulky. 956 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,680 In 10 years of me trying my hardest and I'm not that big. 957 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,400 So like I just when people say that to me, I'm just like, 958 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,960 you're going to be just just lift weights. 959 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,360 You're not going to get bulky. If anything, you're going to get 960 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,280 more toned like, and it's so that's so I started lifting 961 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,760 heavier like, and I was thanks to you, I was scared to do it 962 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,680 because I was like, am I going to injure myself? 963 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,480 What am I going to do? Like, how can I be sure that 964 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,120 this isn't going to hurt me? Because there's that like voice 965 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,160 in my head that's constantly being like, you're doing this 966 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,880 wrong, Like you're going to hurt yourself. 967 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,160 Be careful like overthinking every single thing that I do. 968 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,000 And I, I think one of the things that's been, I guess like the 969 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,120 most difficult for me on my journey to becoming a more fit 970 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:04,520 individual is finding the balance between when I am maybe 971 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,640 going to injure myself and when I actually can push myself and 972 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,360 be safe doing it and knowing when to back off and when to 973 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:17,640 like actually push myself. It's such a thin line sometime. 974 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,800 It's really hard. I'm going to say like even I 975 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,240 still struggle at it and I'm probably pretty darn good. 976 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,880 Yeah. But it's it's really hard 977 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,560 knowing your body is difficult. I call it being your own coach. 978 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,360 And I think when I work with patients, you in terms of your 979 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,920 experience as well, like I think that what helps me sometimes get 980 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,680 better results, especially for patients who have that athletic 981 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,320 background or patients who do want to, you know, do a bit more 982 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,400 kind of physical activity. I think that is really my, my 983 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,440 niche, of course, is high mobility, but my niche within 984 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,360 that is kind of athletic high mobility, I would say, or people 985 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,160 who want to be athletic, even if they're not. 986 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,800 But it comes down to really, you know, accepting that that voice 987 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,960 is there and sometimes that anxiety voice is there and 988 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,240 acknowledging that it might not be a bad thing. 989 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,360 Sometimes it's there because of a history of injury and and 990 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,840 trauma and you know, the stuff you've been told. 991 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,400 But looking at it and saying like, hey, you know, let's break 992 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,200 down this movement in a lot of detail. 993 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,760 Let's make sure we're not missing anything. 994 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,400 Let's take that sports specific or that elite athlete type of 995 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,640 approach and see like how are your feet positioned? 996 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,520 How are your knees positioned? Are you bracing? 997 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,080 You know, how how are you holding the barbell? 998 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,560 It's all of these little micro adjustments. 999 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,000 Yeah. And, and The thing is, the 1000 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,400 average person probably with normal connective tissue or 1001 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,880 collagen, typical connective tissue or whatever, they can get 1002 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,840 away with having anything like less than perfect technique. 1003 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,120 But when you're hyper mobile, because you're more vulnerable 1004 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,240 to injury, there is that risk. If you're not doing everything 1005 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,880 perfectly perfect or as close to that as possible, your risk of 1006 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,760 injury is going to be higher. And again, I don't stress anyone 1007 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,320 listening to this, you know, because like I, you know, it's, 1008 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,280 it's hard just to go and you have to start at a certain place 1009 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,080 and try your best. But one bit of advice that I try 1010 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,640 to give my patients and that I'm so happy I just kind of stumbled 1011 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,120 into because of my work early on in my career with professional 1012 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,560 athletes, is just seeing that it's OK to want to be really 1013 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,000 good at something. Yeah. 1014 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,360 Like, a lot of people can do a squat, but can you do a squat 1015 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,880 anywhere close to the level that someone who's like a 1016 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,360 professional athlete, you know, their bio mechanics, can we try 1017 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,840 and emulate, you know, that and get it right for your body? 1018 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,040 But like, are we really looking at those little details with the 1019 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,120 amount of thoughtfulness that they deserve? 1020 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,720 Absolutely. Like, the thing that really 1021 00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:27,960 changed the game for me was when you taught me more about like, 1022 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,040 it's more important to make sure your form is correct before you 1023 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,080 start lifting heavy than it is to just start lifting heavy. 1024 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,760 Because if you don't have right the correct form, you're going 1025 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,120 to injure yourself and not just injure yourself, but you're not 1026 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,680 going to succeed and trying to do what you're setting out to 1027 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,880 do. So if I want to, you know, 1028 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,440 actually deadlift weight on the bar rather than just the bar, I 1029 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,800 have to make sure that my deadlift form isn't A injuring 1030 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,760 me and B, like he's actually and I'm engaging all the correct 1031 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,120 muscles. Because I found that I wasn't 1032 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,320 making any progress until I learned, OK, this is how you 1033 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,520 actually engage your core. Like I remember one of our first 1034 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,600 sessions, you taught me actually how to engage your core and I 1035 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,480 said to you, should it feel like I have to pee when I'm doing 1036 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,280 this? Yeah, it's a pelvic flooring 1037 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,920 core. There's like a lot going on in 1038 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,480 there. We'll get into that in more 1039 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,960 detail in another podcast. But it's so it's hard to feel 1040 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,960 muscles and joints, you know, in your extremities. 1041 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,400 The core stuff is something like even I'm still working on. 1042 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,400 So I've talked with you about the personal training I'm doing 1043 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,200 for myself right now where we're focusing on some gymnastics 1044 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,920 based movements. And to this day, like I am still 1045 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,520 learning, I'm still developing there. 1046 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,240 And for me, it's been a A10 year plus very intensive journey. 1047 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,240 So it's something, you know, even when it comes to barbell 1048 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,400 movements once in a while, like I'll forget to brace or 1049 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,200 whatever, but it's being able to do the self corrections. 1050 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,640 I think once you know what it should feel like and should not 1051 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,040 feel like and how to cue yourself and in a sense become 1052 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,560 your own coach, then you're able to have a, you know, a lot more 1053 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,560 successful for time because you're not getting injured. 1054 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,440 And it's also more fun exactly because we need fun because when 1055 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,680 you're like dealing with chronic health issues, chronic illness 1056 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,280 and chronic pain and stuff, it's like, it's a bit depressing. 1057 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,400 Oh, really? Depressing. 1058 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,000 So you need a good playlist to make it fun times. 1059 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,520 Any movements, I think it's good to have goals that let you feel 1060 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,160 like a bit of badass. So like, do I remember when I 1061 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,720 got a body weight deadlift and I felt like, you know, queen of 1062 00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:24,120 the world or like my first pull up or whatever? 1063 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,920 So again, those movements are not safe or appropriate for 1064 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,240 everyone, but for the patients, where they are safe and 1065 00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,280 appropriate and we can work toward them, the journey's just 1066 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,760 as good as getting there sometimes, too. 1067 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:35,720 You know, even if you don't feel it in the moment. 1068 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,680 Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. I'm, I'm working on trying to 1069 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,200 get my first dips, you know? Yeah, yeah. 1070 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,600 I've, I've never had a dip. I'm very nervous. 1071 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:43,960 One of the shoulder stuff stresses me. 1072 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,280 We'll talk about my shoulders another time. 1073 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,880 But that's a movement I've always wanted. 1074 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,880 I've never been able to have it. I scale it. 1075 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,840 So I'm doing again what I have done with you. 1076 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,840 So sometimes we cut the depth to make sure that we're moving 1077 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,120 really, really nicely instead of focus obsessing over full range, 1078 00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,840 which I think is overrated sometimes. 1079 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,160 But yeah, working on that, you know, technique first and 1080 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,800 foremost and just take taking our time. 1081 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,360 Taking our time. Yeah. 1082 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,560 Abby, is there anything else you want to touch on real quick? 1083 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,680 I was thinking self treatment and managing being weird. 1084 00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,040 Can we talk about being weird at the gym? 1085 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,720 Absolutely. I'd love to talk about being 1086 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,520 weird at the gym. It's my specialty for. 1087 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,120 Tell me about that. So one of the things I do at the 1088 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,440 gym, which I think people would look at me and question what is 1089 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:33,000 this woman doing, is Alex has introduced me to these like 1090 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,680 metal and wooden tools. I don't know what else to call. 1091 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:36,760 OK, let me do a little explainer. 1092 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,040 It's instrument assisted soft tissue mobilization. 1093 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,840 There are different protocols out there. 1094 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,160 I do not do those with patients even though I'm actually 1095 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,960 certified in one of them. I just don't like it. 1096 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,800 I do my own protocol with patients because people who are 1097 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,160 hypermobile, the tissue is a bit different. 1098 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,080 You have to be careful. It's softer, more sensitive, 1099 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,080 more prone to injury. But with my protocol, we use it 1100 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,480 almost, I call it like mini foam rolling. 1101 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,640 Like we're using that little edge just to subject the tissue 1102 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,200 to a mechanical stimulus to force some blood flow there, to 1103 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,640 warm it up and to really get on spots that you feel like maybe 1104 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,080 you can't quite warm up in a normal warm up. 1105 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,120 Like for me with my shoulder, I used to feel like there's a spot 1106 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,160 in the front of the shoulder and I would try and stretch it, but 1107 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,800 nothing quite got to it when I had that little. 1108 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,080 And again, it doesn't matter if it's you can get stainless steel 1109 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,000 instrument assisted soft tissue mobilization tools. 1110 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,240 There are some plastic ones, wooden ones, whatever. 1111 00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:29,040 I once used an M&S wooden. I was, I was desperate in the 1112 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,080 gym like a couple months ago and I'm like, my shoulder can feel 1113 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,680 it right there and I just need something to get on it. 1114 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,360 But regardless of what it is, yeah, it's a way that you can 1115 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,280 just kind of get in and mobilize that tissue, a form of self 1116 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,480 massage that I find this really, really well for myself and for 1117 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,920 two people who are mobile. Well, like one of the things 1118 00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,120 I'll do is that let's say I did it yesterday, like I was doing 1119 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,720 upper body yesterday and I was doing overhead press and I felt 1120 00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:58,440 like there was a part of my right shoulder that I absolutely 1121 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,160 could not like engage properly. And it was like, you know, when 1122 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,120 it feels like one of your, I'm going to use the wrong word for 1123 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,640 this, but like muscle things is underneath one of the other 1124 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,880 ones. Like a tender. 1125 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,640 A trapped nerve or like some sort of something like that? 1126 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,880 Something's we it's that feeling of something being stuck. 1127 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,120 We talk about the freedom of movement. 1128 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,320 Sometimes it's like, yeah, something is not quite moving as 1129 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,160 it should. I think that sensation so. 1130 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:23,680 I put the bar down. I stepped. 1131 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,360 Away very proud of that's yeah yeah key role here. 1132 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,080 Yeah, and I took out my tool from my little Lululemon gym bag 1133 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,600 and I started just like scraping myself. 1134 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,720 And people at the gym will look at you like, what are you doing? 1135 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,880 But I also think that I'm probably not the weirdest person 1136 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,680 at the gym. Like there are people who are on 1137 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,520 phone calls. Sometimes there are people who 1138 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,160 are like. There's a lot of special people. 1139 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:47,360 Yeah, there's a. Lot of people. 1140 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:52,640 So I feel less weird because I'm not, you know, taking a phone 1141 00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,160 call in front of like 50 other people, but I'm like, actively 1142 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,920 doing something to make my body feel better. 1143 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,280 But yeah, I stepped away, did that, came back. 1144 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,120 I also realized at that point, like, OK, I reassessed. 1145 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,480 I started lifting again. I was like, OK, I still don't 1146 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,600 feel like 100% good about this movement. 1147 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:14,120 I'm going to lower the Rep count that I want to do. 1148 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:21,200 I'm also not going to continue on with working the front of my 1149 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,840 shoulder today like I'm going to. 1150 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:27,400 I'm going to do some lats instead just to see how to test 1151 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,120 it out, see if other muscles are also giving me the same kind of 1152 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,800 trouble. And that's one of the things 1153 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,480 that I feel like has really helped me be more like a 1154 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,200 comfortable in my body and also be comfortable at the gym. 1155 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,760 Being able to be weird and like step away and maybe not always 1156 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,000 be fully working out when you're at the gym. 1157 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,520 Like being OK, taking up space and like letting your body feel 1158 00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:53,600 a certain way for a little bit and then trying again and trying 1159 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,520 again and not overdoing it. Like when you feel something 1160 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,720 back off. Don't don't just force yourself 1161 00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,080 through it. I really have had to come to 1162 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,800 terms with being OK with that. Yeah, I know. 1163 00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,320 It's, I think of it as being kind to your body. 1164 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,240 So like a good program for anyone long term is going to 1165 00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:13,440 involve being kind. And that day your shoulder was 1166 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,120 OK, I'm not feeling less. You took that opportunity, took 1167 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:17,880 that information, you made a decision. 1168 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,560 You, you were your own coach. You stepped away, tried to do 1169 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,800 some stuff to see if you could adjust it. 1170 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,680 And I think this is key and this is how I work with patients 1171 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,800 because it's, I think it's what's helped me get progress. 1172 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,480 Because if you didn't have things for you to try when that 1173 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,320 happens, you would kind of just be stalling. 1174 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,760 We want to have ways that you can self correct or try to 1175 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,760 manage it. And also not give up. 1176 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,160 Yeah. Because I feel like that's what 1177 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,560 bothered me the most. Like, I'd be like, I'm in pain. 1178 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,800 I have to stop doing this because it's going to continue 1179 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,600 the pain. And I would just go home and be 1180 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,040 sad on my couch. You don't have to go home and be 1181 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,560 sad on your couch. You can continue working out, 1182 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,240 but you can just do something else that isn't hurting you. 1183 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,120 If you can find something, yeah. There are some days. 1184 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,880 Man, I swear. I like everything, but no, 1185 00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,680 absolutely the more options you have, the better. 1186 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,200 I think it's having that, that wealth and that education, you 1187 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,800 know, background and, and hopefully what I do is help 1188 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,920 educate my patients so that you can look at like all the 1189 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,160 resources you have in the gym and try and figure out, you 1190 00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:10,760 know, what you can do or cannot do. 1191 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,880 And really leaning into that. Again, coming back to kindness, 1192 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,000 you know, finding what your body needs on that given day and 1193 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,560 giving it to yourself. And that's why with programming 1194 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,880 you've ever even seen in how I program, it's not like week one 1195 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,440 do this week two week do this, we have a framework. 1196 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,120 And then if you feel good, you can do more. 1197 00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:28,840 If you don't feel so good, you can do less. 1198 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,800 And if you need to do something different, than you do something 1199 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,800 different. And I think that's ultimately 1200 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,240 what this is all about. I think it's that being able to 1201 00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:37,400 accommodate different needs in different ways. 1202 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,640 Yeah, which is a challenge. But it's also, I think it is in 1203 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,000 a way, like, again, I'm not saying this is a positive. 1204 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,120 Like, I, you know, nobody would wish to have a connective tissue 1205 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,560 disorder behind mobile or whatever. 1206 00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,800 But the one kind of good thing about it is you get to know your 1207 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,480 body and yourself, I think in a really deep way. 1208 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:55,800 Absolutely. Like you, you kind of have to 1209 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,280 come to terms with always checking in on yourself in a way 1210 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,400 that I feel like people who don't experience this maybe 1211 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,000 don't need to. It's an autopilot. 1212 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:07,960 Yeah, exactly. And there's some days I'm like, 1213 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:09,840 Oh my God, I wish I could do that. 1214 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:15,960 But also I am grateful in a way for knowing my body so well at 1215 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:21,200 this point that, like I, knock on wood, can hopefully prevent 1216 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,840 as much injury as possible because I know these things. 1217 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:25,800 Absolutely. And look, the way I see it is 1218 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,760 like injuries happen. You saw me injured my back badly 1219 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,280 a few months ago. I feel you. 1220 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,960 That was rough. Did nothing by the way, just 1221 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,040 like went on a normal car journey, whatever. 1222 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,600 Your 30s. Hey, I love it. 1223 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,640 But yeah, no, it's like, look, injury will come for us all 1224 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,160 whether you slip on. I don't know what banana or 1225 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,960 banana peel, who can say, right? But the the ideal situation is 1226 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,360 that your body is resilient enough, like you've done a bunch 1227 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,160 of strength training, which will help with things like bone 1228 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:54,720 density, by the way, and other stuff. 1229 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,240 Where then when you're like B and you fall flat on your face 1230 00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:00,080 running for a train instead of fracturing things, you are kind 1231 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,320 of OK and come to clinic and see your patients. 1232 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,800 Anyways, Abby, this has been fantastic. 1233 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,560 We didn't have time to go into you being a Dungeons and Dragons 1234 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,360 master. Love that DM lifestyle. 1235 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,720 I we need to have you back on one day to talk about that. 1236 00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:14,680 I do. We have talked about doing an 1237 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,880 event as well, maybe one day. So if anyone wants that, leave 1238 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,200 it in the comments. It might happen one day. 1239 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,960 But yeah, is there anything like if you could turn back time and 1240 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,800 talk to little 12 year old aggressive basketball player 1241 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,520 Abby, who's not like nothing on the ball, would you? 1242 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,160 Is there any like advice you'd get for anything? 1243 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,720 Two things, I think the first thing I would say is take a deep 1244 00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,880 breath. Like, remember why you're here. 1245 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,240 You're not here to fight other girls. 1246 00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:47,120 You're here to play basketball. And the second thing I would say 1247 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,760 would be like maybe start lifting weights. 1248 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,720 I know you're 11, but like, one of the best things you'll be 1249 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,880 able to do for yourself is control your own destiny in 1250 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:04,440 terms of like athleticism. And the earlier you start doing 1251 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,160 that, the better you're going to feel in the long term because so 1252 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,880 many people you see as they age like people who aren't 1253 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,480 physically active or can't be physically active. 1254 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,400 I feel like I've seen, and this is just an anecdote, age faster 1255 00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,640 like the. No, it's it's not an anecdote. 1256 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,800 It's very proven in research. So like if you can just keep 1257 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,720 moving your body as much as possible in ways that are safe, 1258 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,040 do it. No 100% I wish I could have told 1259 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,280 myself like hey like strength train like don't just spend 4 1260 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,520 hours in the pool. No animal? 1261 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:40,000 Well, no, no Animal Crossing. Yes Animal Crossing but but also 1262 00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,600 maybe do some bicep curls. Exactly. 1263 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,360 It's it comes down, we'll do another episode one day on like 1264 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,120 childhood type property. We'll get an expert on hopefully 1265 00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:50,840 in Pediatrics and stuff because I'm not one. 1266 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,680 But what I can say from my experience is 100% if I had a 1267 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,080 child, I would be talking with them about like we would, we 1268 00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,600 would be doing family gyms. Yeah, together little baby 1269 00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,000 weights. But it's not scary like that. 1270 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,680 It's also not just to, like you said, like get bulky, like do 1271 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,360 all those things. It's to maintain your normal 1272 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:10,600 state. Yeah, to feel strong, Yeah. 1273 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,560 And yeah, when you when I find at least when I feel strong, 1274 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,960 feeling stronger on the outside makes me feel stronger on the Oh 1275 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,920 yeah, same. Also, like when my D&D 1276 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,320 characters are really strong, I want to be able to be that 1277 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,520 strong too. So sometimes I like try and 1278 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,440 channel like one of them and I'll be like, OK, what would she 1279 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,200 be doing? How would she be training to go 1280 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,280 out? I love it, Abby. 1281 00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,200 Abby, thank you again for your time today. 1282 00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:33,080 Thank you. Please come back. 1283 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,440 We really need to talk about DND. 1284 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,080 I've only played once, but maybe we can change that. 1285 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,600 But thank you again, and I hope to see you back here soon. 1286 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:42,640 Thank you, Alex.