You're listening to the back home network, presented by home
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Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale and Claudio Scott Caulfield
joining you. It is the 16th of April of the
Year 2023. We're I think tax day is
tomorrow. Do you know if you is that I am
married to a tax expert, I should probably be more aware of
these things but yeah, we're already halfway through April, I
filed. Yes, I file and it's Pat
podcasts. Over gotta go file.
Actually the podcast, unfortunately was lost in our
latest tax settlement with with the folks that do taxes.
I guess that would be the IRS, right?
The IRS has taken over Crimson cast and there Converting it
into now, I'm not sure where we're going with that, but no,
it's it is the, I mention it because we are now more than
halfway through April, and I have yet to do a show on the
network since March, and it's gotten so bad.
I was today, I was at the Indiana sportscasters and
sportswriters Association Hall of Fame, induction ceremony.
Now, I was not being inducted. We were there actually
supporting Mike Wells. Well, well, We're supporting
Mike Wells, who of course, is a faculty member down here, at IU
now but, you know, spent 20 years as a sports writer in,
Indianapolis for the star for espn.com.
He had won the, the Corky lamb sportswriter of the Year award,
but one of the six Hall of Fame inductees is friend of the show.
And, you know, I you, you know, and just kind of Indiana Sports
writing and and other media Legend, Ric bozek who, you know,
he's all dressed up and I go over to congratulate.
Native. And he's like, you know, I'm,
I'm waiting on the next Crimson cast, you know, I really don't
like, wow, okay. I've been, I've been playfully
shamed into doing an episode by Rick.
I told also told Rick, we need to get him on the show, which we
will do at some point, but congrats to Rick and the rest of
the Hall of Fame, inductees, tremendous honor and a really
good ceremony. It was up in Greenwood, they got
a chance to go up and enjoy that.
So that was fun. I love that.
He's listening to thank you for listening and I also like you
could use, this is just like, hey, you know, to the Hall of
Fame, like, Galen will come back once I get my induction, like,
the ban is out there, like, you're not doing podcasting
until I get inducted, you can just do that.
Let's see how that works. Bob Knight did that with the
Basketball Hall of Fame in like, the late 80s.
Like, he was like, well, I'm not, you know, I don't get
inducted this year, you can just take me off the ballot forever,
then inducted, in the next year at all, was well, I guess very
odd that I don't know, but, but it was great to see much people
up there. Greg, Greg straw was up there,
Alex. Suppose it's from inside.
The hall was up there supporting his dad and a bunch of other
folks. Don, Fischer, won the Lifetime
Achievement Award. So that was cool as well and
just a bunch of really top level names and Indiana Sports writing
and sportscasting. So that was cool.
Tom kubat, who's an IU guile, you know, wrote for the Journal
and Courier up in Lafayette for a long time.
I grew up reading him. So, cool to see all of those
folks and good to be back. We've got some things to talk
about, and we're going to just kind of rifle through them here
when I start with. Portal stuff.
And and then, we've got a debate that I don't think is a debate,
but we're going to get into it anyway.
A little bit later on, in the show, I don't even think Scott
and I are debating. We're debating a straw man
essentially, but we know we enjoy that.
That's essentially what we do here, Crimson cast.
So, looking forward to that. First of all, before we get to
that. Just a reminder, folks that we
are part of the backbone Network, the backbone network is
brought to you by home field apparel and home field apparel
is bringing you a brand new little 500 shirt.
They just Announced it today pretty sweet light blue, it's
different than last year's orde. I guess maybe he's two years ago
is little 500 shirt. Maybe was last year the black
one with the the kind of mid 90s graphic on it.
This one's a bit different, it's really pretty.
I would highly recommend getting it.
If you're going to be in Bloomington, home field is going
to be at the graduate on Kirkwood Avenue, on Friday, and
they're going to be, you know, selling some merch.
There's a bunch of home-field apparel right now at the IU
bookstore. I Went down there and checked it
out, but if you want to order home-field apparel yourself, you
should do. So online, use the code home.
H ome get 15% off your first order and you know buy it where
it got a little five? You know, women's race is on
Friday. Men's race is on Saturday.
I'll be there at both of them so you can come over and say hi to
me and I think all the home field folks will be around and I
bet we're going to see a lot of those shirts out after a.
So again check out home field apparel that is home field.
Apparel.com follow them on the socials and whatnot.
Not and you would have found out about that shirt as quickly as I
did if you did that. So do that for next time because
they got some other cool stuff coming out here soon to anyway,
Scott, we've got two new Hoosiers since the last time we
talked, Peyton Sparks, played at Ball State, and at transferring,
in interesting pickup, not the headliner as the headliner and
upcoming a couple weeks later as Indiana, reels in a former
five-star from last year coll, where from Oregon, And this is a
guy that physically looks like he's got all of the gifts 7 feet
tall and just, you know, one of those guys that if he puts it
together, could be a lottery pick like very easily actually
mock. Drafted in the early, second
round right now, which is about where Trish Jackson Davis is
being mocked and significantly ahead of where Zack Edie's being
mocked. So, looking at these two
pickups, you know, both of them more post player types, but
Indiana needed to make Some Replacements, they're obviously,
the trace Jackson Davis leaving with race Thompson, leaving, you
know, your come back. And essentially if you're
Indiana you're looking at your post position.
You like well, yeah we got to we got Malik renew coming back and
we've got nobody else over 67. 66 on the roster, coming back,
so desperately needed some post presence and it looks like I you
did some good work with both of these guys.
Yeah, no. I mean I think it was funny when
Peyton Sparks, got signed everybody's like oh we need
shooting. We need.
This is like alright well like not you're not gonna like you
know like you did Kevin Durant's, not in the portal is
not looking at IU. Like there are pieces that need
to be put together as for. So I think he, you know, Sparks
looks like a really good pick up it again.
We have a couple of starting spots me to fill but there's
also a team you have to fill out and they're not, you're not
going to get all of the top five guys in the portal, there are
other role players need to fill in and he seems like He's going
to be a good, you know, Indiana typeface troll player.
So I like that. You know, as for where we talked
about it, we went on the assembly called emergency pod,
you know, I've I've changed my thought a little bit since we
talked on that, you know, I'm going to leave it to people like
you and you know, like Ryan and those who really dig into the
the seen the tape by Tony and see that, you know, I look at
whereas there's like, you said, very high possibilities and a
lot of talent there are the Curry is great.
The thing that I'm more excited about is, you know, we are
entering a. This is kind of, no, no kidding
podcast. We're entering a world where the
portal is much more important. And I think the portal is going
to be as important if not the same as recruiting and, you
know, depending where you look at him, you know, where was one
of the top two or three, you know, until one or Dickinson
went out. He was the number one guy in the
portal. And so, if you think that the
portal is going to be similar to recruiting, I just want to go
back. I've been doing this.
I apologize for the Standard intro but I've been looking
back. I went back to 2003 here's the
highest-rated recruit that we got every single Years.
Also just a really fun exercise and some of these names are
wild. So in 2002 the numbers get that,
the ranking is get really murky after a 2002 just like
historical rankings. But in 2003, we didn't sign
anybody in the top 100. In 2004.
We did get the number three player.
That's Joshua Smith, you know, always always be part of the IU.
Ali yes absolutely. Yes, DJ white was 15. 2005 bed.
Allen was 49. I'd call that a whiff.
Let's, let's blame the recruiting services for that
10K. My God.
Sorry. Go on.
You can also recruit other people.
Yeah. 2006 was Armand Bassett at 122. 2007 yet.
Eric Gordon, which was number two.
So there you go, 2008, Nick Williams, 3509, Watford, 34 And
we sat out the top hundred, I think Nick Williams at 35 is
more shocking than Ben Allen. In the top 50.
I got to be honest with you there, but anyway, go ahead.
Yeah, it keeps going dude, 2010. We sat out nobody 11, Zeller,
1412 Yogi Ferrell 24:13, Noah vonleh 1314 Blackman jr. 2015,
Thomas Bryant 2016 Curtiss, Jones, 4117, Justin Smith, 91.
And this is exhibits, you know, three and four.
And why Tom crean should have been fired 2018 Romeo, Langford
5 so there you go and then you go you know the last couple of
years you have traced Jackson Davis, 27, Christian Lander, 27
tomorrow Bates, 25 Malik renew, 23 Pacino, 26 and then this year
Gabe, cut 67, all of that said, long intro.
It is fun to go back and look at it.
Is that in the last 20 plus years two times, we've gotten a
top-five guy in recruiting and this is part of the reason why
we've had struggles over 20 plus years is we've not been in these
conversations. I'm not saying that, you know
this this changes everything but it's like this is woodsen's
second year, really his first full year attacking as you're
attacking the portal. And he got the number to dude.
So this is this is big stuff and you know so I just I look at
that as like this. This is a really big thing that
Woodson's able to come in and do this.
Really, we've only done two other times in the last 20
years, I think if you and starting in 2003, if you go back
from there, maybe Jeffries in there.
But I'm not sure how many other top three guys we've gotten in
recruiting again. I know.
I'm recruiting and portal different, but I think moving
forward, the portal is going to be as important.
I think, as he said, like 25% of college at college baseball
players from the portal. So to me, that's the key.
Is that this is this was a dude who was super highly recruited
in the last thing. I will say sorry I'm going super
long hair, but the last thing I'll say is, I'm also a mention
assembly call. Like I think it's huge that he
visited. I you he had a visit schedule
with Alabama. And was like, yeah, I'm good.
But we know Alabama, is the number one team in the country
this year. Nate oats is one of the hottest
young coaches and that's a school that you know they have
that's a great campus. That's a great atmosphere.
As a very Sports it wasn't like he was going to Vanderbilt or
something like that's that's a program has a lot of ni0 money.
Like that's a school that I'd be worried about recruiting against
and not only do we beat them, he didn't even go there.
So I think all of those things are really key now, yeah, he
could come here and score, five point five points, a game, and
it didn't pan out, but it's like the fact that you're getting top
level Talent. And whether they pan out is kind
of two different stories. I think the fact that you got
him and it's so uncharacteristic of I you this a really good
thing. I'm gonna let everybody take a
breath, sorry. No, it's fine.
Not look. I think you bring up a lot of
good points and I won't be able to follow along and respond to
all of them but I'll pick up on a couple of things.
I mean, a what you rattled off there is in one way I think.
Indicative of how you never really know with recruiting
rankings how good a player is, or how they're going to
transition. Now, I was, you know, I was a
little bit, I've gotten used to the troll, Calls on social media
and the trolls within certain sectors of the IU basketball.
Content landscape. I'll just put it that way, who
kind of seized on this idea that.
Oh, this guy didn't put up very good numbers.
His one year at Oregon. Why is everybody so excited?
And look, I get the temptation to kind of lean into that.
It's kind of the same Temptation that people had to, you know,
basically go after what they perceived as you know, Mike
Woodson's terrible offense or Mike Woodson's like You know,
poor approach to Logistics or roster management.
We see this over and over again. And I'm, you know, Scott, gosh,
darn it. I'm starting to feel like some
of these attacks are maybe a bit disingenuous because, you know,
we've seen now, as you mentioned like this is the third player
who was very highly rated as a recruit that Mike Woodson has
been able to bring to Indiana in essentially two years and you're
coming off a year. Bianna was one of the top 16
teams in the regular season as demonstrated by being seeded
fourth in one of the regions. And I look at Woodson, I look at
what Woodson was able to bring out of all of the players that
didn't perform particularly well.
His first year as head coach Trey Galloway who struggled
mightily, especially on offense who suddenly blossomed into a
pretty reliable shooter, and a guy who you could have play, a
lot of really important minutes Miller cop suddenly seemed to
get his feet under him this year.
Year, you know, you know, Trace Jackson Davis expanded his game
in a bunch of different ways. This year, you know, you've seen
multiple instances. Now of Mike Woodson being able
to take players who weren't quite at their best and in a
short period of time, figure out a way to put them in a spot
where they could play much closer to whatever their best
is. And to be honest, I kind of
think in a in a situation or two, you might have gotten
players to about as good. A spot as they could be given
their innate talent and abilities.
And you look at his NBA track record and he was able to do
that with a lot of the players that played underneath them,
whether it was in New York or whether it was in Atlanta or
whether it was elsewhere. So I look at bringing in a guy
like we're and I see a guy who started off the season, playing
pretty well. Had some big games against some,
pretty difficult competition, some difficult matchups.
You look at the clips. You look at the tape.
He's got all of these flashes. But when you read, What about
the kid when you read about the situation that he was in going?
You know, quiet very reserved guy goes across country loses.
The one person that he really knew and found himself in a
situation where he probably wasn't particularly happy.
It's hard for me to just look at a player like that and say well
why would you want him? You know, because he couldn't
perform under whatever circumstances 18 year, old 19
year, old kid, you know, trying to figure out his freshman year
at college and doing so 1,500 or 2,000 miles.
From home and you look at the talent that He has both the
physical gifts and what he's already shown on a basketball
floor in flashes and it's like, that is exactly the type of
player that you want Mike Woodson to have and work with
over the course of an off season, a season of practice,
and then going into a regular season.
Is it going to be Flawless? Probably not.
But we know when I look at a player like that, I say the
ability for him. To grow into a role and redefine
who he is as a player and do. So in a spot where he's going to
get some really good Player Development like, that could be
as important as anything and you know, especially I look at
Woodson and Woodson has clearly figured out a way to reach
players and develop them in a way that Archie Miller never
could. And that Tom crean only could on
rare occasions. It seemed like, you know, that's
you know when I look at wood Senate and I hear what players
say about Woodson and I mean I think Jalen Hurd Cioppino said
something along. These lines about playing it,
Indiana and you know, we've heard Trace Jackson Davis say
it. We've heard others, I think
Miller cop is talked about it as well, a little bit, like there's
clearly some kind of Special Sauce going with Woodson and the
players where he is, he keeps things behind closed, doors.
He seems to give them a lot of the direction that they need
Trace Jackson, Davis talked about this extensively, you
know. Imagine Trace Jackson Davis with
an extra year of Mike Woodson's coaching and it makes You wonder
gosh, you know, what could have been?
You know, I mean, as greatest race Jackson Davis, his career
was you could almost hear a little bit of wistfulness in his
comments about how, you know, it seemed like, it would have been
great to have that that kind of coaching throughout his entire
time. So that's why I look at where
and I'm like, clearly everybody would have loved to have this
guy on their roster. It kind of boggles my mind that
you have a sector of the IU fan base and and content field.
That's like well, why is everybody excited?
It's almost like wow, there's a bowl of Cheerios, maybe I P in
it. Not let me give you some cogent
analysis about how this might work for Indiana.
Moving forward. I agree with all that.
I mean I would say unfortunate, I'm not a pee in the Cheerios
guy. I initially looked at it and it
just kind of looks straight As numbers and it's like, wow, it's
not the numbers. I was looking at but there is a
lot of context there. And the two other things I would
say is when you look at his numbers for the first like ten
or eleven games, stretch of the season this year, he was like,
you know, over 100 over 100 offensive rating.
And like eight of the nine games.
Like two of them are seven of the 70 11 games, like two of
them, he was like 99 and 98 and I'm not saying this is great,
but it's a reality. This is the guy who transfer the
he was from, you know, Arkansas, the assistant coach that brought
him to Oregon left. And, you know, I doubt he
decided to just go in the portal in March.
Like, he probably was figuring middle of the year.
He's going to go in the portal and, like a lot of us.
It's like all right, you know, maybe he kind of mentally
checked out a little bit in January and his numbers
definitely declined in the way. He Being used as differently.
There's a lot of, you know, reasoning behind those numbers.
And I would also say to that, you know, we we all got caught
not I was not this nor were really you, but a lot of people
got caught up in like the, you know, the Oladipo story of like,
let's get these guys who were, you know, Diamonds in the Rough
and turn them into polished. You know, first round NBA draft
picks, that's great. But normally the guys who become
the lottery picks are guys. Like, we're like, the guys were
five stars like normally. Yes, you You can find the old
Depots, like that's a much harder game.
And when you're Indiana with the highest cream budget, you don't
have to do that, right? And the majority of the lottery
picks are guys. Like we're in a lot of times,
they have a bad first year, they have a hard time adjusting
college and they figure it out and then they're on their way.
And, you know, this also gives Woodson, a great opportunity
where you have a year and this year, we have a guy in jail.
Who chafee know, who was lightly on, you know, NBA draft horse.
Whose now, you know, really close to being a lottery pick.
We'll see how it pans out, but he will definitely be a mid
first. On pick.
You have a guy in, you know, Trish Jackson Davis, who is not
going to be drafted this year? Who's now going to be drafted
this year? You know, Woodson has both those
things on his marker. If he can take a guy like we're
who had, you know, kind of a suboptimal first season and turn
him into even a first-round pick or maybe a lottery pick.
Now, it's like, all right man, this guy can turn you around
like this guy can get you into the league which is what we were
all saying is something that he was able to do because he knew
the league and so again like this is where you go after the
pedigree guys. Well, and and that's the Thing,
it's in the flip is it's not just, hey, wow.
This guy could get you to the league.
The flip side is if you're Indiana, you know, what's really
helpful to have top-tier athletic talent, because if, if
the lost to Miami should teach you and I a lot of people took
the wrong lesson from the lost to Miami the lesson.
A lot of people took was when we need guards, and it's like,
well, we do need guards but we already have a really good
starting point guard who might have made the difference in that
game, but you would Indiana really needs is NBA caliber
Talent. And if you want an example of
this, I would point you to the Indiana, Women's Basketball
team, who had a first round pick in the WNBA draft this year.
In Grace Burger, they're going to have another first-round,
pick in Mackenzie homes who's still on the roster for next
year. And if you want a difference
between IU Women's Basketball and their ceiling, you know,
early like earlier, like in Terry morons early days versus
now, that's it. It's a get players who can play
in the league and And you're going to probably have a better
shot at succeed. It's not a guarantee.
And that's the thing with. Where is it?
A guarantee. He's going to just pop right in
and play at a high level. No, it'll probably take some
time, but you'd rather have the idea that you'd rather have like
the scrappy kid, who with limited Talent, you know, you
know, score like 11 points, a game in the Pac-12, or whoever
I'm just making it somebody up right now, that seems to have
gotten ingrained in the eye, you fans mentality, and it's like,
no, like Like, I mean, just think about the players that you
rattled off like, would we have been better off without Eric
Gordon? No, would we have been better
off without Cody? Zeller know, you know?
And and so yes, you get some players like Nick Williams or
Ben Allen who don't live up to their ratings, but that doesn't
mean that you don't want those players because you're, and it's
funny. As I was going through those
lists of those lists and rankings and what kind of tacos.
We talk about you Cam, but it's like the top five every year.
I mean, it's like Kansas Kentucky, Duke Kansas Kentucky
Duke. It's like they just, they're
doing It every year and we've done it twice in 25 years but
like now we've done it once, you know, once in two years under,
which like we're batting 50%, this is good like this, this is
all. So we have to keep this up.
Like now you need to the portal next year.
Be in the top five, I like well in you doing it but yes, and
this is where I'm sorry haters, but by Woodson seems to be
making a lot of Headway. And as you said something early
on in this, I feel like just an honor, Mike Miller, I got to
throw a sorry cops in after the sorry haters there.
So I will you know, Woodson has the ability not just to operate
well on the recruiting Trail, but also operate well in the
portal and the portal I think is probably more important right
now in that you would rather get a A player who's been in college
a year or two, a known quantity, at least to some degree in terms
of, you know? Okay, we know that they can at
least play at this level. Maybe they haven't had the
greatest statistical outlier, but I'll point you in the
direction of Penn State who you know, made it into the the
tournament and kind of overachieved for their station.
How did they do it? They do it with players that
they'd recruited and kept around for four years.
No, they did it with Jalen Pickett who played at Siena for
three years and then transferred they did it with Drew Funk who
played at Bucknell for four years and then transferred into
Penn State. This year, it is more important
at this point, unless you're grabbing, like top 50 Bonafide
Talent, like, like they did with Josephine.
Oh, and renew your doll. Most be better off at this
stage. Filling your roster spots with
players who, you know what you're getting.
And you feel like mesh better with what you are doing and
Indiana's in a really good spot. Not just because of their ni O
War chest. But also because Mike Woodson is
rapidly Starting, I think based upon things I've heard and just
the overall reputation of the guy as it's starting to develop
a guy who people want to go play for who they look at.
And say this guy knows that the NBA works.
This guy can help me get there. He can help me become a better
basketball player. And by the way, now he's got a,
you know, a top four finish in the Big Ten and a four seed in
the NCAA to go along with that, that's only going to help as you
move along. So, I really think that right
now I use in pretty good shape in terms of the direction.
They're pointing now some of it will depend on obviously what
they're able to do in terms of closing the deal with some of
the other outstanding players that are in the portal but I
like Indiana's chances because all told like I use got the
pieces. We just mentioned the ni L piece
to Woodson piece and they're starting spots to be had there's
minutes to be had. And as we've seen with Florida,
Atlantic with some of these other teams like you can put
together a team that brings in players from outside and you can
turn things around pretty. Quickly, it doesn't have to be a
situation. We had to take a step back, you
can maintain that same level if you get the right pieces in
place, completely agree. Well, I also think for next year
again, assuming the end, you know, we're all kind of assuming
the NCAA is going to Grant Xavier another year.
But let's just, I will also do the same.
If you have that it's like you have a man at point guard like,
you know, as you're coming in and you're still, you know,
Ludlow or wherever else to look into coming here.
It's like, hey, we got a Glasgow level.
Mm, he's not here yet. Wow.
Okay go on you know it's like
hey we got a 23 24 year old guy who liked who is a you know,
top-tier Big Ten, probably first or second team all-big ten point
guard who can get you the ball and steady the team and like
that. That to me is that that's
another big selling point specifically for next year.
But no. I'm I'm in agreement with the,
you know, the the portal to me is key and it's something that
Tony had Ronge is as mentioned on this pot a couple times that
it's like you know you just never know they can even mention
the recruiting services like you.
Don't know the high school stuff and you know, it's it's like
when you draft guys in the NBA. And if I have no idea you know,
women Jama looks really good but it's a koozie playing against
like how good is that competition?
Where it's like it's a weird comp but it's like, I knew
Marcus Smart was going to be good in the NBA.
Just like he played in college, he was a dog in college and he
had a lot of transferable skills and that's the way I look at the
portal where you can look at somebody who, you know, they put
up, you know, 18, you know, 13 14 points in, you know, even a,
you know, Oh Mac level school like you know Peyton Sparks out
of those numbers in front of it you know whatever Peyton Sparks
put up a heat. He's at least playing against D
level competition. Like you don't need to worry
about, you know, being away at home for the first time, you
know, playing college basketball for the first time.
Like yeah, the competition is going to be bigger in the Big
Ten in the Mac, but that's a smaller jump than, you know,
even high level AAA you to D1 and all the things that go
around with it. And so there's it's much more
transferable and, you know, I think Is a world where you
don't, if you're Indiana, you don't need to seed recruiting.
You still look to recruit some pieces here or there.
But there's also a world where you're like, you know what, we
could also just let other people get the dudes and seat and let
them try it. Kind of turns the smaller
conferences into the farm system which that's a whole different
podcast but kind of like, hey go see if if you're good, go put it
up in western Michigan. Go put up 20 points again.
In West Michigan and then we'll talk.
That's kind of like Peyton Sparks wanted to play at IU.
He's an Indiana kid. It's like, you went and bought
state did well and now he's He's going to play it.
I you, this is how it works in a lot of other sports across the
world. It really is.
I don't know. People don't like it about, you
know, changing the college game but that look the idea that, oh,
I'm gonna have to play there for years.
It's not really, I mean, if you're that good as a younger
player, you'd like to earn a player to lower level, as a
younger player, you'd you'd wanted the opportunity to move
up to the next level. And look for those.
As we look at who else they're looking at.
They're looking at Ludlum from Harvard, and we're waiting to
hear on that. They're looking at this.this
kid. It sounds like that.
One. Like there's very few like
crystal ball. Sights on right portal, but it
looks like he's as close to I use.
You can get other. Yeah, couple other visit.
There's some visit, I think there's a visit to like st.
John's or something happening. You've also got this Dalton
connect out of Northern Colorado who looks like an intriguing
option. 6680 kind of guy who can play the two or the three, you
know. But also say this like
Indiana's, got some young Talent at the guard position to go
along with z. Our Johnson, you've got Gabe
cups coming in, you've got Yokai, Newton coming in, you've
got tray. Galloway coming back, you've got
CJ gun coming back. And who knows?
I mean, it may be a situation where the coaching staff feels
that that group is, well, positioned to be able to handle,
you know, at least defensively. And, you know, obviously, you've
got some proven commodity scoring wise with would save
your Johnson with Trey Galloway. They really like what?
They're getting out of Gabe cups as he comes in as a freshman.
So, maybe they look at that and they say well gosh, another
shooter would be great to have, but it needs to be more of a
like that Miller cop sized person as opposed to being a
smaller player who would take minutes away from Folks.
At the to, it's funny the same people who are raging about IU,
not getting shooting yet, or the same people who were raging
about CJ gun, not getting more minutes during the regular
season, say well, hey, now's the chance.
And, and I think, you know, again, as you and I have said
for a decade. Now it's okay to have Players
like sit for a year and learn and develop some skills.
And even if they don't show it a whole lot, an individual like in
their freshman year, you know they might show at that next
year. It is possible for players to
actually develop into something bigger than what they were when
they first started. And so we'll see what happens
with all of that. They'll be more to talk about
with this. Obviously Scott as we get closer
to do what 33 scholarships open. Well well more to the point
we've got like five and a half Six weeks left in the portal,
the portal isn't close to the end of May.
And so, you know, we'll talk probably on Memorial Day because
we'll know for sure, at that point, like here's what the
roster is going to be, but we got time until we got to get to
that point. And so the last thing that I
like and this is very just, you know, anecdotal but you know,
when you talk about the the top, you know, 5 or 10 recruits every
year, it just, you know, for 20 years unless they have an
Indiana tie, like a Romeo Langford, Eric.
And it's just like you're not hearing like oh man the stud
player I do or you know the stunt player out of it, you
know, Idaho's looking at Indiana.
It's just we're not in the mix, any of those conversations
unless there's like a tie to Indiana, what's been kind of fun
this year in the portal. Again, anecdotal and I've been
following a lot more on the college basketball, Reddit, as
you pointed out. So this is its unaffiliated.
So it's just kind of overall college basketball fans.
It is kind of cool that every major person that's come out in
the portal outside of Hunter Dickinson.
It's been like, Indiana where do they fit in?
Like could they talk to my Caleb?
Love Indiana. And again, this is an total
means nothing, but it's like again, the portal is going to be
as important as recruiting and it does feel like this year and
yeah, we have a lot of spots available, but it feels like
Indiana is at least in from a red at point B.
The conversation and a lot of these guys again, read, it
doesn't mean anything. Not now these guys are taking
visits, but it does feel like we're, we're the Zeitgeist
unlike we've ever been in any of the other years of like, The top
nine recruits people are talking about, you know, Indiana, it's
nice, isn't it? Yeah, I Indiana, is it's well,
just I, you know, just a feels. It's always the IU fandom and
talking about IU basketball, has become fun.
It's become so fatalistic. It's, you know, and it's been
like, it's all, I don't know. It's so frustrating to listen to
people talk about IU. You know, I had someone who
contact it was weird. Dming back and forth pretty, you
know, well-established person in, in the overall content
sphere of, I you who actually said, well, you know what?
If they don't win the Big Ten title and the and and get to the
Sweet 16, like, you know, what happens?
And I'm like, what do you mean what happens?
Like well, what if this is just as far as they can go and I'm
like mean what this year or as a program and as like was as a
program it's like well no that's that I just reject that
hypothesis out of how we Watch Yukon who like, you know, won a
title in 14. Hit rock, bottom fired.
Their coach for cause in one of the sleaziest University legal
Maneuvers, that I think I've ever seen because they didn't
want to pay him the buyout that they had like legally promised
him. Go hire a guy who you know, had
coached at buffler Buffalo and Rhode Island.
I think we're his top two stops before that and over a five-year
period of time. He resurrects that program back
to the point where they win a National Title.
I mean, this this idea That IU is somehow going to be incapable
of achieving anything more than what they had on the table this
year. I just don't get it.
I don't get the mentality and I think in the fans it's even
worse than some of the observers surrounding the team because
fans you know that everybody wants to get fans in an uproar
and IU fans are so easy to stir up because they're so they're
kind of like the Kentucky fans in a lot of ways and that they
are. They are so Zest with not just
how good their basketball team is doing but how they are
perceived Nationwide as a basketball power or lack
thereof. And it's the easiest way to get
IU fans like on the defensive and down as if you start talking
about, well they're just they don't matter and they'll never
be good again, which all of that is crap.
It doesn't have to be that way. It is, it is entirely a series
of managerial and strategic choices and we're starting to
see with Woodson and and under Scott, Dolson, in my opinion.
Ian, the beginnings of a reorganization of how I you does
things, and whether that is through recruiting, utilizing
the portal, the types of players that I use been able to get,
which they have not been able to get before that consistently the
utilization of Ni L. Like all of those things come
together in a way that might, you know, finally indicate that
Indiana is really taking basketball, like seriously, not
just we want to win, but we are doing the things that have to be
done in order to win and I think I you, as we've said before on
this podcast, is really, really like, really well suited for
this particular ERA with NI L with the portal and it's
exciting to watch. Indiana utilizing it while
Syracuse as just an example that I saw today is losing players
who out the door saying, yeah, I don't really think Syracuse is
taking and I'll seriously like it just doesn't seem to be
something that they're interested and this was one of
the players that transferred to to West.
Virginia said that like you would much rather be where
Indiana's at right now. Anyway I'm gonna get off my
soapbox. Ox, but that just all kind of
led me to wanting to say all of that.
So I think it leads in well, to kind of the the Yukon discussion
two ways. I'll wrap up your thought with
this that, I think you're right. It's not the best analogy, but
you know, when you con one their title and I have a couple of
Yukon thoughts and we both want to talk about but you know, they
now have five titles, they're tied with Indiana and kind of
the overall title list and there was a lot of like people looking
at that list of, you know, it's UCLA Kentucky and then, you
know, North Carolina and then were there with you Yukon
Indiana and it's like, well, you know, of all those teams
Indiana's wanted to. It's just kind of like, we look
bad in comparison to a lot of those teams in historical late,
historical records. So that to your point in like,
Indiana fans, it hurts. But it's like, that's true.
We've not had the success lately, and we're probably not
at that level right now, but the idea that like it can't ever
happen again. I think that's all just BS
because again, Not the best example, but one that I've
always thought is you look at, you know, Alabama football right
now for any of the students in your class.
It's like that's just a behemoth and that's like, I don't know
how that how that ever is going to stop like every year they're
getting, you know, 25 5 stars and like, man.
That's just that how do you get that thing rolling?
Like, the late 90s early 2000s, that program was an absolute
mess. It wasn't that, what mean they
weren't a mess for long? But like, Alabama was not doing
well, they have losing Seasons, the SEC, they were not making
bowls, but, you know, the Structure was there.
You see the right person to come in, figure it out, wire it up,
and then once you get going, you're good to go.
Me cleanse and footballs another great example, like they were
just out in the wilderness for 20 years.
It's like they had all the infrastructure.
They had a great state and everything there and it's like
it can be done. Georgia is another example,
haven't been yes, what Georgia is another example in football
now. Now, you know, you can you can
make and you can make the argument while they're in good,
recruiting grounds will guess what?
Those Indiana basketball. And it's easier to build a
basketball team that it is to build a football team anyway.
The other thing I think that's interesting with Connecticut and
obviously not probably not a ton of Connecticut fans listening
this, but if there are, you know, championships are
championships. Like you get a banner and they
won this year. But this is something that was
talked about before the tournament on a One Shining
podcast. But that they were even saying
this, this tournament even going into it felt very much, like one
of those years were someone's going to, you know, air quotes,
steal a title and it did. Play out that way where it just
felt like obviously things were open.
It was a weird final four, you know, I look like 2021 like
Baylor, you know, really want a lot of big games to get like it
felt like that was a real title. But my point is it feels like
three of the last titles for Connecticut you know the Shabazz
Napier year and the Kemba Walker.
Your did feel like those were you know they wanted me to put
Butler in the files on the boat was a bad team but it's just
stole is not the right word, but it does feel like you kind of
just like you were in the right place, right time.
That year and yet, it might break.
And it does feel like they've had a lot of good breaks and
like they've been hot the right year in the right tournaments,
unlike some teams that are, you know, really good.
And just they end up, you know, losing and tough matchups or
teams that are just dominant and wind titles.
It does feel like a lot of their their championships are kind of
like you know stolen Zone where I could think of but hey I don't
know, I I strongly disagree. I mean look you you win a title?
Win a title. I mean, if we're going to start
getting into that debate, I mean, you can go back and look
at. I mean, Kentucky is going to
claim a bunch of titles. If your definition is well,
whoever the strongest team was, or he had to be in the top three
or four, strongest teams should have been the ones to win the
title. I just from my perspective, when
I look at this year's UConn team, they were, and you can
look at Ken Palm like they were legitimately that strong.
They got a little bit downgraded because they played in the Big
East and they ended up Up playing teams that had scouted
them really well and then they just put it back together.
And that was one of the greatest maulings of a series of
opponents in a tournament that we've ever seen in college
basketball. So I have a real hard time.
You know pointing at anybody, that's won a title.
I mean you can look at Virginia like Virginia had to have two
overtime games and a bunch of you know, questionable calls and
you know, a Hail Mary essentially to win their title.
I would I don't think anybody would go.
I can say that that one was like a stolen title or that, that it
wasn't deserving. So I get, I get what you're
saying. I just, I think to some degree.
What makes college basketball work so?
Well, is that it doesn't really matter who the regular season
best team was, what matters is what happened at the end of the
tournament and that's why the tournament matters.
It's why, you know the at the end of the day for IU Winning
the Big Ten to me is far less important than getting to the
final four. Winning a national title because
ultimately, you know, most people could not tell you who's
won what titles Conference titles.
But everybody should be able to tell you who was, who's won the
national titles? And if you need a win, is a
seven seed and somehow figured out a way to win the national
title. There's no way that we would
ever say, well gosh, they didn't deserve that.
Yeah, no, I agree. You know, if we did, I'm Kara,
I'm happy if we could win five more stolen titles, like in.
My definition, it's just I get that feeling any way we can move
on. It's just it is they're tied
with us now and it's wild that they did all of this since our
last title. Yeah.
Well I mean look, I mean and this is where I've already on
record earlier in this podcast as saying I think I you is doing
the right stuff now that you know, they've hired a coach who
seems to have really taken to the job.
They're doing really well on the recruiting Trail.
They're using an eye, all very well.
But this is what happens when you stop taking your.
Program as seriously as you need to, for essentially 30 years.
And from from allowing bob Knight to, you know, take entire
Summers off to go fish rather than focusing on recruiting and
putting the right players in his program.
To putting Mike Davis in a job. He wasn't ready for to
inexplicably hiring K Samson. When they knew he was under
probation to letting Tom crean gut the program and then, you
know, go off in the directions that he went towards the end to
hiring Archie Miller who was a dead fish.
Essentially upon arrival, like there were so many poor
decisions made throughout the course of the entire time, that
UConn's been winning these titles.
And, you know, maybe this is the, I mean, I think the wake-up
call already happened a couple of years ago, but this is where
it's like, well gosh, they've caught Indiana, Dukes caught
Indiana, you know? I mean, it's like, if Purdue won
a title. Would that wake everybody up and
be like, oh, like wow, we should probably take this more
seriously. And again, I think, I think
Indiana is now. But this is where Where this is
what happens when you stop doing that and you kind of let other
teams and other programs, take the initiative and become the,
the core of college basketball. I mean, you know, Yukon Michigan
State. Those are the teams playing in
like, you know, the classic at the beginning of the year or
Kentucky your North Carolina, as an Indiana, in a couple of
decades, because no one like Indiana's taking themselves, not
seriously enough, and so many of those Seasons that they haven't
deserve that mantle and teams like you.
You might debate or not like some of the things that they've
done over the years, but they have taken themselves seriously,
and this has been the result. And the last thing I'll say is,
it's, it's annoying. But it also is a glimmer of
hope. And that all the programs you
mentioned have just a consistent coach.
I mean, you know, Kentucky is a different breed because they're
always going to just hire five, you know, to get the best coach.
But you know, like you said Michigan State, like it's a
happened. All under is oh like I want to
see them do it without is. Oh like you North Carolina.
They did it. They had one really good
decision. Getting Roy Williams I'm like
let's see how thick how they continue doing it.
Hubert Davis you know, Duke the owner, Chef ski like they'll
still waiting to see how it goes that our new guys.
The the the frustrating thing is like you can also made mistakes.
They've made mistakes and last 25 years, but they figured him
out quickly and it's not like, they just had it something that
you can just like all Jim Calhoun like got him fight like
no, he got him three then I only got one, early got one thing,
it's the multitude of changes and bad decisions and changing
conferences than good decisions that have been there.
But This is also, this makes me feel happy as an IU thing
because if all the other teams out there are just like in that
Michigan State mold where it's like, well you just got to find
the is, oh he's got to find that coach who's great?
Like, well, that's tough. But, you know, you cam shows
that you can make a lot of mistakes, but as long as you
start making some good decisions, the you can cover up
for the mistakes, very quickly, I'm just, you know, it's a good
point and I don't know. I'm constantly amazed people
talk like that about Mike Woodson.
Like, he's gonna retire next year.
And, you know, and it's like, Like Jim Calhoun won a national
title. I think when he was 68 or 69,
you know, I mean the the idea that you can't be an effective
coach. I mean, you have to be
effective, you have to recruit effectively, you have to do all
the things you need to do, but everything you're seeing out of
Woodson. So far, if you're really taking
the last two years into account, has been pretty positive, and
he's 65 years old, just turn 65, you know, I think it's guys got
quite a bit left to become one of the most active teams in the
portal. Like he's resting though, I
know, you know. So so I just you know, overall I
think a lot of a lot of people get hung up on with coaching and
with programs is its kind of off the beaten path from what
reality is sometimes and ultimate, like you said Indiana
needs, they need some stability. They need a clear path forward.
They need to some degree to become a program that is bigger
than any of their coaches and that to me is the thing that's
been missing, you know, I mean all the talk of what you can't
replace bob Knight. Well, you know what Dean Smith
was? As much of a legend as bob
Knight was at North Carolina somehow North Carolina?
Yes. They made a bad hire that first
time, but somehow they figured it out and they figured out how
to, how to replace Dean Smith pretty easily.
You know, I mean, having won two national worth three times.
Yes there, any Guthrie made a final force, you count him and
then it's a mini of Roy Williams.
And yeah, yeah, so at Kansas is, is another Like you know, Kansas
has been a solid like top-tier program and you can make an
argument that the best coach that they had over the last 40
years, wasn't one that won a national title and that was Roy
Williams, you know, but self was able to win a couple afterwards
and obviously Larry Brown 11 right before.
So, you know, this is where I look at Indiana and I say if
you're going to, this is what I mean by taking your program,
seriously, where the per the coach is very important, but
this is like, I think Dukes about to find this out, you
know, all those Oh, you wouldn't know it.
I mean, there's so desperately trying to push on Shire forward
is like yes. See how great he is.
It's like, yeah, let's give him a couple of years but Michigan
State. Like there's no clear Heir
Apparent when Tom Izzo, finally, hangs it up.
That's a program, I could see, you know, struggling to maintain
because it is such a cult of personality around what is 0 has
done up there much like Chef ski at Duke.
And so, I think for Indiana, the aspiration has to be, how do we
create a program that sustains That Mike Woodson can do great
things in and then whenever he's ready to pass the Baton on the
next person whoever it is, it's not dependent upon them, right?
And that's the you know, that was honestly that's why the Tom
crean thing fell through. It's yrt Miller never really got
off the ground because it was so dependent on anything.
You look at the tears K, Samson was here the year and three
quarters. The fact, he was able to turn it
around so quickly from where Mike Davis had.
It is another illustration that it was so dependent on the
abilities of the individual coach.
And I think if you're going to be in that top tier programs,
and again, this is where your football analogies come into
play. You have to be able to survive a
retirement or somebody leaving. And I'm hoping Indiana's,
finally, learned that lesson because UConn certainly learned
it and has been able to figure things out from there.
So anyway, okay. Any final thoughts before we
wrap up, I think we're good, man.
Okay, good talking with you. And we'll do this again.
And probably the end of the month, unless there's big
transfer portal news, then we'll obviously tackle that as it
happens. But anyway, thanks to all you
folks for checking us out once again and we look forward to
chatting with you again. Soon.
This is, of course, Crimson cast.
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