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You're listening to the back 
home network, presented by home 

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field. 
Apparel. 

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Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale
and Claudio Scott Caulfield 

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joining you. 
It is the 16th of April of the 

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Year 2023. 
We're I think tax day is 

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tomorrow. 
Do you know if you is that I am 

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married to a tax expert, I 
should probably be more aware of

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these things but yeah, we're 
already halfway through April, I

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filed. 
Yes, I file and it's Pat 

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podcasts. 
Over gotta go file. 

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Actually the podcast, 
unfortunately was lost in our 

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latest tax settlement with with 
the folks that do taxes. 

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I guess that would be the IRS, 
right? 

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The IRS has taken over Crimson 
cast and there Converting it 

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into now, I'm not sure where 
we're going with that, but no, 

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it's it is the, I mention it 
because we are now more than 

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halfway through April, and I 
have yet to do a show on the 

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network since March, and it's 
gotten so bad. 

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I was today, I was at the 
Indiana sportscasters and 

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sportswriters Association Hall 
of Fame, induction ceremony. 

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Now, I was not being inducted. 
We were there actually 

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supporting Mike Wells. 
Well, well, We're supporting 

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Mike Wells, who of course, is a 
faculty member down here, at IU 

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now but, you know, spent 20 
years as a sports writer in, 

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Indianapolis for the star for 
espn.com. 

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He had won the, the Corky lamb 
sportswriter of the Year award, 

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but one of the six Hall of Fame 
inductees is friend of the show.

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And, you know, I you, you know, 
and just kind of Indiana Sports 

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writing and and other media 
Legend, Ric bozek who, you know,

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he's all dressed up and I go 
over to congratulate. 

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Native. 
And he's like, you know, I'm, 

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I'm waiting on the next Crimson 
cast, you know, I really don't 

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like, wow, okay. 
I've been, I've been playfully 

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shamed into doing an episode by 
Rick. 

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I told also told Rick, we need 
to get him on the show, which we

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will do at some point, but 
congrats to Rick and the rest of

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the Hall of Fame, inductees, 
tremendous honor and a really 

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good ceremony. 
It was up in Greenwood, they got

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a chance to go up and enjoy 
that. 

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So that was fun. 
I love that. 

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He's listening to thank you for 
listening and I also like you 

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could use, this is just like, 
hey, you know, to the Hall of 

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Fame, like, Galen will come back
once I get my induction, like, 

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the ban is out there, like, 
you're not doing podcasting 

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until I get inducted, you can 
just do that. 

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Let's see how that works. 
Bob Knight did that with the 

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Basketball Hall of Fame in like,
the late 80s. 

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Like, he was like, well, I'm 
not, you know, I don't get 

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inducted this year, you can just
take me off the ballot forever, 

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then inducted, in the next year 
at all, was well, I guess very 

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odd that I don't know, but, but 
it was great to see much people 

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up there. 
Greg, Greg straw was up there, 

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Alex. 
Suppose it's from inside. 

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The hall was up there supporting
his dad and a bunch of other 

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folks. 
Don, Fischer, won the Lifetime 

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Achievement Award. 
So that was cool as well and 

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just a bunch of really top level
names and Indiana Sports writing

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and sportscasting. 
So that was cool. 

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Tom kubat, who's an IU guile, 
you know, wrote for the Journal 

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and Courier up in Lafayette for 
a long time. 

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I grew up reading him. 
So, cool to see all of those 

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folks and good to be back. 
We've got some things to talk 

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about, and we're going to just 
kind of rifle through them here 

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when I start with. 
Portal stuff. 

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And and then, we've got a debate
that I don't think is a debate, 

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but we're going to get into it 
anyway. 

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A little bit later on, in the 
show, I don't even think Scott 

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and I are debating. 
We're debating a straw man 

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essentially, but we know we 
enjoy that. 

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That's essentially what we do 
here, Crimson cast. 

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So, looking forward to that. 
First of all, before we get to 

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that. 
Just a reminder, folks that we 

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are part of the backbone 
Network, the backbone network is

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brought to you by home field 
apparel and home field apparel 

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is bringing you a brand new 
little 500 shirt. 

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They just Announced it today 
pretty sweet light blue, it's 

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different than last year's orde.
I guess maybe he's two years ago

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is little 500 shirt. 
Maybe was last year the black 

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one with the the kind of mid 90s
graphic on it. 

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This one's a bit different, it's
really pretty. 

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I would highly recommend getting
it. 

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If you're going to be in 
Bloomington, home field is going

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to be at the graduate on 
Kirkwood Avenue, on Friday, and 

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they're going to be, you know, 
selling some merch. 

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There's a bunch of home-field 
apparel right now at the IU 

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bookstore. 
I Went down there and checked it

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out, but if you want to order 
home-field apparel yourself, you

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should do. 
So online, use the code home. 

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H ome get 15% off your first 
order and you know buy it where 

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it got a little five? 
You know, women's race is on 

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Friday. 
Men's race is on Saturday. 

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I'll be there at both of them so
you can come over and say hi to 

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me and I think all the home 
field folks will be around and I

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bet we're going to see a lot of 
those shirts out after a. 

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So again check out home field 
apparel that is home field. 

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Apparel.com follow them on the 
socials and whatnot. 

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Not and you would have found out
about that shirt as quickly as I

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did if you did that. 
So do that for next time because

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they got some other cool stuff 
coming out here soon to anyway, 

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Scott, we've got two new 
Hoosiers since the last time we 

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talked, Peyton Sparks, played at
Ball State, and at transferring,

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in interesting pickup, not the 
headliner as the headliner and 

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upcoming a couple weeks later as
Indiana, reels in a former 

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five-star from last year coll, 
where from Oregon, And this is a

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guy that physically looks like 
he's got all of the gifts 7 feet

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tall and just, you know, one of 
those guys that if he puts it 

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together, could be a lottery 
pick like very easily actually 

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mock. 
Drafted in the early, second 

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round right now, which is about 
where Trish Jackson Davis is 

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being mocked and significantly 
ahead of where Zack Edie's being

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mocked. 
So, looking at these two 

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pickups, you know, both of them 
more post player types, but 

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Indiana needed to make Some 
Replacements, they're obviously,

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the trace Jackson Davis leaving 
with race Thompson, leaving, you

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know, your come back. 
And essentially if you're 

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Indiana you're looking at your 
post position. 

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You like well, yeah we got to we
got Malik renew coming back and 

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we've got nobody else over 67. 
66 on the roster, coming back, 

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so desperately needed some post 
presence and it looks like I you

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did some good work with both of 
these guys. 

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Yeah, no. 
I mean I think it was funny when

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Peyton Sparks, got signed 
everybody's like oh we need 

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shooting. 
We need. 

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This is like alright well like 
not you're not gonna like you 

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know like you did Kevin 
Durant's, not in the portal is 

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not looking at IU. 
Like there are pieces that need 

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to be put together as for. 
So I think he, you know, Sparks 

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looks like a really good pick up
it again. 

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We have a couple of starting 
spots me to fill but there's 

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also a team you have to fill out
and they're not, you're not 

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going to get all of the top five
guys in the portal, there are 

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other role players need to fill 
in and he seems like He's going 

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to be a good, you know, Indiana 
typeface troll player. 

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So I like that. 
You know, as for where we talked

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about it, we went on the 
assembly called emergency pod, 

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you know, I've I've changed my 
thought a little bit since we 

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talked on that, you know, I'm 
going to leave it to people like

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you and you know, like Ryan and 
those who really dig into the 

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the seen the tape by Tony and 
see that, you know, I look at 

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whereas there's like, you said, 
very high possibilities and a 

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lot of talent there are the 
Curry is great. 

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The thing that I'm more excited 
about is, you know, we are 

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entering a. 
This is kind of, no, no kidding 

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podcast. 
We're entering a world where the

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portal is much more important. 
And I think the portal is going 

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to be as important if not the 
same as recruiting and, you 

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know, depending where you look 
at him, you know, where was one 

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of the top two or three, you 
know, until one or Dickinson 

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went out. 
He was the number one guy in the

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portal. 
And so, if you think that the 

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portal is going to be similar to
recruiting, I just want to go 

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back. 
I've been doing this. 

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I apologize for the Standard 
intro but I've been looking 

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back. 
I went back to 2003 here's the 

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highest-rated recruit that we 
got every single Years. 

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Also just a really fun exercise 
and some of these names are 

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wild. 
So in 2002 the numbers get that,

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the ranking is get really murky 
after a 2002 just like 

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historical rankings. 
But in 2003, we didn't sign 

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anybody in the top 100. 
In 2004. 

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We did get the number three 
player. 

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That's Joshua Smith, you know, 
always always be part of the IU.

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Ali yes absolutely. 
Yes, DJ white was 15. 2005 bed. 

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Allen was 49. 
I'd call that a whiff. 

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Let's, let's blame the 
recruiting services for that 

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10K. 
My God. 

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Sorry. 
Go on. 

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You can also recruit other 
people. 

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Yeah. 2006 was Armand Bassett at
122. 2007 yet. 

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Eric Gordon, which was number 
two. 

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So there you go, 2008, Nick 
Williams, 3509, Watford, 34 And 

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we sat out the top hundred, I 
think Nick Williams at 35 is 

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more shocking than Ben Allen. 
In the top 50. 

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I got to be honest with you 
there, but anyway, go ahead. 

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Yeah, it keeps going dude, 2010.
We sat out nobody 11, Zeller, 

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1412 Yogi Ferrell 24:13, Noah 
vonleh 1314 Blackman jr. 2015, 

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Thomas Bryant 2016 Curtiss, 
Jones, 4117, Justin Smith, 91. 

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And this is exhibits, you know, 
three and four. 

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And why Tom crean should have 
been fired 2018 Romeo, Langford 

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5 so there you go and then you 
go you know the last couple of 

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years you have traced Jackson 
Davis, 27, Christian Lander, 27 

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tomorrow Bates, 25 Malik renew, 
23 Pacino, 26 and then this year

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Gabe, cut 67, all of that said, 
long intro. 

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It is fun to go back and look at
it. 

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Is that in the last 20 plus 
years two times, we've gotten a 

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top-five guy in recruiting and 
this is part of the reason why 

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we've had struggles over 20 plus
years is we've not been in these

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conversations. 
I'm not saying that, you know 

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this this changes everything but
it's like this is woodsen's 

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second year, really his first 
full year attacking as you're 

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attacking the portal. 
And he got the number to dude. 

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So this is this is big stuff and
you know so I just I look at 

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that as like this. 
This is a really big thing that 

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Woodson's able to come in and do
this. 

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Really, we've only done two 
other times in the last 20 

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years, I think if you and 
starting in 2003, if you go back

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from there, maybe Jeffries in 
there. 

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But I'm not sure how many other 
top three guys we've gotten in 

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recruiting again. 
I know. 

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I'm recruiting and portal 
different, but I think moving 

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forward, the portal is going to 
be as important. 

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I think, as he said, like 25% of
college at college baseball 

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players from the portal. 
So to me, that's the key. 

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Is that this is this was a dude 
who was super highly recruited 

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in the last thing. 
I will say sorry I'm going super

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long hair, but the last thing 
I'll say is, I'm also a mention 

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assembly call. 
Like I think it's huge that he 

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visited. 
I you he had a visit schedule 

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with Alabama. 
And was like, yeah, I'm good. 

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But we know Alabama, is the 
number one team in the country 

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this year. 
Nate oats is one of the hottest 

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young coaches and that's a 
school that you know they have 

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that's a great campus. 
That's a great atmosphere. 

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As a very Sports it wasn't like 
he was going to Vanderbilt or 

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something like that's that's a 
program has a lot of ni0 money. 

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Like that's a school that I'd be
worried about recruiting against

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and not only do we beat them, he
didn't even go there. 

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So I think all of those things 
are really key now, yeah, he 

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could come here and score, five 
point five points, a game, and 

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it didn't pan out, but it's like
the fact that you're getting top

221
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:23,400
level Talent. 
And whether they pan out is kind

222
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,700
of two different stories. 
I think the fact that you got 

223
00:11:25,700 --> 00:11:29,600
him and it's so uncharacteristic
of I you this a really good 

224
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,700
thing. 
I'm gonna let everybody take a 

225
00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:34,900
breath, sorry. 
No, it's fine. 

226
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,700
Not look. 
I think you bring up a lot of 

227
00:11:36,708 --> 00:11:40,000
good points and I won't be able 
to follow along and respond to 

228
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,900
all of them but I'll pick up on 
a couple of things. 

229
00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:47,300
I mean, a what you rattled off 
there is in one way I think. 

230
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:50,200
Indicative of how you never 
really know with recruiting 

231
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,200
rankings how good a player is, 
or how they're going to 

232
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,600
transition. 
Now, I was, you know, I was a 

233
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:04,100
little bit, I've gotten used to 
the troll, Calls on social media

234
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:10,300
and the trolls within certain 
sectors of the IU basketball. 

235
00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:15,800
Content landscape. 
I'll just put it that way, who 

236
00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:18,800
kind of seized on this idea 
that. 

237
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,200
Oh, this guy didn't put up very 
good numbers. 

238
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,100
His one year at Oregon. 
Why is everybody so excited? 

239
00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:29,700
And look, I get the temptation 
to kind of lean into that. 

240
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,400
It's kind of the same Temptation
that people had to, you know, 

241
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,700
basically go after what they 
perceived as you know, Mike 

242
00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:41,900
Woodson's terrible offense or 
Mike Woodson's like You know, 

243
00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:46,100
poor approach to Logistics or 
roster management. 

244
00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:50,900
We see this over and over again.
And I'm, you know, Scott, gosh, 

245
00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:52,300
darn it. 
I'm starting to feel like some 

246
00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:56,800
of these attacks are maybe a bit
disingenuous because, you know, 

247
00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,900
we've seen now, as you mentioned
like this is the third player 

248
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,100
who was very highly rated as a 
recruit that Mike Woodson has 

249
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:10,200
been able to bring to Indiana in
essentially two years and you're

250
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,100
coming off a year. 
Bianna was one of the top 16 

251
00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:16,300
teams in the regular season as 
demonstrated by being seeded 

252
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:21,700
fourth in one of the regions. 
And I look at Woodson, I look at

253
00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:24,900
what Woodson was able to bring 
out of all of the players that 

254
00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:26,900
didn't perform particularly 
well. 

255
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:30,400
His first year as head coach 
Trey Galloway who struggled 

256
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,200
mightily, especially on offense 
who suddenly blossomed into a 

257
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,400
pretty reliable shooter, and a 
guy who you could have play, a 

258
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,800
lot of really important minutes 
Miller cop suddenly seemed to 

259
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,300
get his feet under him this 
year. 

260
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,100
Year, you know, you know, Trace 
Jackson Davis expanded his game 

261
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:50,000
in a bunch of different ways. 
This year, you know, you've seen

262
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,300
multiple instances. 
Now of Mike Woodson being able 

263
00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:56,800
to take players who weren't 
quite at their best and in a 

264
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,600
short period of time, figure out
a way to put them in a spot 

265
00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:02,400
where they could play much 
closer to whatever their best 

266
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,000
is. 
And to be honest, I kind of 

267
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,400
think in a in a situation or 
two, you might have gotten 

268
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,000
players to about as good. 
A spot as they could be given 

269
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,800
their innate talent and 
abilities. 

270
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,100
And you look at his NBA track 
record and he was able to do 

271
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:20,100
that with a lot of the players 
that played underneath them, 

272
00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:22,300
whether it was in New York or 
whether it was in Atlanta or 

273
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,800
whether it was elsewhere. 
So I look at bringing in a guy 

274
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,900
like we're and I see a guy who 
started off the season, playing 

275
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:33,600
pretty well. 
Had some big games against some,

276
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,100
pretty difficult competition, 
some difficult matchups. 

277
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:38,200
You look at the clips. 
You look at the tape. 

278
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,800
He's got all of these flashes. 
But when you read, What about 

279
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,000
the kid when you read about the 
situation that he was in going? 

280
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,100
You know, quiet very reserved 
guy goes across country loses. 

281
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:52,200
The one person that he really 
knew and found himself in a 

282
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,300
situation where he probably 
wasn't particularly happy. 

283
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,500
It's hard for me to just look at
a player like that and say well 

284
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,600
why would you want him? 
You know, because he couldn't 

285
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,400
perform under whatever 
circumstances 18 year, old 19 

286
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,100
year, old kid, you know, trying 
to figure out his freshman year 

287
00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:11,300
at college and doing so 1,500 or
2,000 miles. 

288
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:17,800
From home and you look at the 
talent that He has both the 

289
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,200
physical gifts and what he's 
already shown on a basketball 

290
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,000
floor in flashes and it's like, 
that is exactly the type of 

291
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,500
player that you want Mike 
Woodson to have and work with 

292
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,900
over the course of an off 
season, a season of practice, 

293
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:32,600
and then going into a regular 
season. 

294
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,400
Is it going to be Flawless? 
Probably not. 

295
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:40,700
But we know when I look at a 
player like that, I say the 

296
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:43,500
ability for him. 
To grow into a role and redefine

297
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,500
who he is as a player and do. 
So in a spot where he's going to

298
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:49,200
get some really good Player 
Development like, that could be 

299
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,200
as important as anything and you
know, especially I look at 

300
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,700
Woodson and Woodson has clearly 
figured out a way to reach 

301
00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:58,800
players and develop them in a 
way that Archie Miller never 

302
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,300
could. 
And that Tom crean only could on

303
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,000
rare occasions. 
It seemed like, you know, that's

304
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,300
you know when I look at wood 
Senate and I hear what players 

305
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,800
say about Woodson and I mean I 
think Jalen Hurd Cioppino said 

306
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,000
something along. 
These lines about playing it, 

307
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,100
Indiana and you know, we've 
heard Trace Jackson Davis say 

308
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:17,500
it. 
We've heard others, I think 

309
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:20,100
Miller cop is talked about it as
well, a little bit, like there's

310
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:24,000
clearly some kind of Special 
Sauce going with Woodson and the

311
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,300
players where he is, he keeps 
things behind closed, doors. 

312
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,000
He seems to give them a lot of 
the direction that they need 

313
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,600
Trace Jackson, Davis talked 
about this extensively, you 

314
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,100
know. 
Imagine Trace Jackson Davis with

315
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:41,900
an extra year of Mike Woodson's 
coaching and it makes You wonder

316
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:43,400
gosh, you know, what could have 
been? 

317
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:46,400
You know, I mean, as greatest 
race Jackson Davis, his career 

318
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,400
was you could almost hear a 
little bit of wistfulness in his

319
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,200
comments about how, you know, it
seemed like, it would have been 

320
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,400
great to have that that kind of 
coaching throughout his entire 

321
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,000
time. 
So that's why I look at where 

322
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,800
and I'm like, clearly everybody 
would have loved to have this 

323
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,600
guy on their roster. 
It kind of boggles my mind that 

324
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,200
you have a sector of the IU fan 
base and and content field. 

325
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,200
That's like well, why is 
everybody excited? 

326
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,800
It's almost like wow, there's a 
bowl of Cheerios, maybe I P in 

327
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,599
it. 
Not let me give you some cogent 

328
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,000
analysis about how this might 
work for Indiana. 

329
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,000
Moving forward. 
I agree with all that. 

330
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:22,700
I mean I would say unfortunate, 
I'm not a pee in the Cheerios 

331
00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:24,800
guy. 
I initially looked at it and it 

332
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,900
just kind of looks straight As 
numbers and it's like, wow, it's

333
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:28,900
not the numbers. 
I was looking at but there is a 

334
00:17:28,908 --> 00:17:32,200
lot of context there. 
And the two other things I would

335
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,600
say is when you look at his 
numbers for the first like ten 

336
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,500
or eleven games, stretch of the 
season this year, he was like, 

337
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,300
you know, over 100 over 100 
offensive rating. 

338
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,800
And like eight of the nine 
games. 

339
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,700
Like two of them are seven of 
the 70 11 games, like two of 

340
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:50,000
them, he was like 99 and 98 and 
I'm not saying this is great, 

341
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,200
but it's a reality. 
This is the guy who transfer the

342
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,200
he was from, you know, Arkansas,
the assistant coach that brought

343
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,300
him to Oregon left. 
And, you know, I doubt he 

344
00:17:58,308 --> 00:18:01,300
decided to just go in the portal
in March. 

345
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:03,500
Like, he probably was figuring 
middle of the year. 

346
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:05,300
He's going to go in the portal 
and, like a lot of us. 

347
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,500
It's like all right, you know, 
maybe he kind of mentally 

348
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:10,100
checked out a little bit in 
January and his numbers 

349
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:12,400
definitely declined in the way. 
He Being used as differently. 

350
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,700
There's a lot of, you know, 
reasoning behind those numbers. 

351
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:21,500
And I would also say to that, 
you know, we we all got caught 

352
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,300
not I was not this nor were 
really you, but a lot of people 

353
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:28,000
got caught up in like the, you 
know, the Oladipo story of like,

354
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,800
let's get these guys who were, 
you know, Diamonds in the Rough 

355
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,100
and turn them into polished. 
You know, first round NBA draft 

356
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,000
picks, that's great. 
But normally the guys who become

357
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,400
the lottery picks are guys. 
Like, we're like, the guys were 

358
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,100
five stars like normally. 
Yes, you You can find the old 

359
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,200
Depots, like that's a much 
harder game. 

360
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,100
And when you're Indiana with the
highest cream budget, you don't 

361
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,100
have to do that, right? 
And the majority of the lottery 

362
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:51,700
picks are guys. 
Like we're in a lot of times, 

363
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:53,900
they have a bad first year, they
have a hard time adjusting 

364
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:56,900
college and they figure it out 
and then they're on their way. 

365
00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:00,300
And, you know, this also gives 
Woodson, a great opportunity 

366
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:03,000
where you have a year and this 
year, we have a guy in jail. 

367
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,200
Who chafee know, who was lightly
on, you know, NBA draft horse. 

368
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,900
Whose now, you know, really 
close to being a lottery pick. 

369
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:11,000
We'll see how it pans out, but 
he will definitely be a mid 

370
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,000
first. 
On pick. 

371
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,500
You have a guy in, you know, 
Trish Jackson Davis, who is not 

372
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,900
going to be drafted this year? 
Who's now going to be drafted 

373
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:18,500
this year? 
You know, Woodson has both those

374
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,600
things on his marker. 
If he can take a guy like we're 

375
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,700
who had, you know, kind of a 
suboptimal first season and turn

376
00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:26,100
him into even a first-round pick
or maybe a lottery pick. 

377
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:29,300
Now, it's like, all right man, 
this guy can turn you around 

378
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:32,400
like this guy can get you into 
the league which is what we were

379
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,200
all saying is something that he 
was able to do because he knew 

380
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,400
the league and so again like 
this is where you go after the 

381
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,700
pedigree guys. 
Well, and and that's the Thing, 

382
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,100
it's in the flip is it's not 
just, hey, wow. 

383
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:45,600
This guy could get you to the 
league. 

384
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,600
The flip side is if you're 
Indiana, you know, what's really

385
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,200
helpful to have top-tier 
athletic talent, because if, if 

386
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,200
the lost to Miami should teach 
you and I a lot of people took 

387
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,800
the wrong lesson from the lost 
to Miami the lesson. 

388
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,600
A lot of people took was when we
need guards, and it's like, 

389
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,400
well, we do need guards but we 
already have a really good 

390
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,900
starting point guard who might 
have made the difference in that

391
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:10,300
game, but you would Indiana 
really needs is NBA caliber 

392
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,800
Talent. 
And if you want an example of 

393
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,400
this, I would point you to the 
Indiana, Women's Basketball 

394
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:20,300
team, who had a first round pick
in the WNBA draft this year. 

395
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:23,100
In Grace Burger, they're going 
to have another first-round, 

396
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:27,100
pick in Mackenzie homes who's 
still on the roster for next 

397
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,000
year. 
And if you want a difference 

398
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,400
between IU Women's Basketball 
and their ceiling, you know, 

399
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,600
early like earlier, like in 
Terry morons early days versus 

400
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,600
now, that's it. 
It's a get players who can play 

401
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,100
in the league and And you're 
going to probably have a better 

402
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,100
shot at succeed. 
It's not a guarantee. 

403
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:46,300
And that's the thing with. 
Where is it? 

404
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,200
A guarantee. 
He's going to just pop right in 

405
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,000
and play at a high level. 
No, it'll probably take some 

406
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:57,300
time, but you'd rather have the 
idea that you'd rather have like

407
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:01,500
the scrappy kid, who with 
limited Talent, you know, you 

408
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:04,600
know, score like 11 points, a 
game in the Pac-12, or whoever 

409
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,100
I'm just making it somebody up 
right now, that seems to have 

410
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:10,300
gotten ingrained in the eye, you
fans mentality, and it's like, 

411
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:13,300
no, like Like, I mean, just 
think about the players that you

412
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:15,900
rattled off like, would we have 
been better off without Eric 

413
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:17,800
Gordon? 
No, would we have been better 

414
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,000
off without Cody? 
Zeller know, you know? 

415
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,200
And and so yes, you get some 
players like Nick Williams or 

416
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,600
Ben Allen who don't live up to 
their ratings, but that doesn't 

417
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,200
mean that you don't want those 
players because you're, and it's

418
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,500
funny. 
As I was going through those 

419
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,900
lists of those lists and 
rankings and what kind of tacos.

420
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:36,100
We talk about you Cam, but it's 
like the top five every year. 

421
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:39,200
I mean, it's like Kansas 
Kentucky, Duke Kansas Kentucky 

422
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,900
Duke. 
It's like they just, they're 

423
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:45,000
doing It every year and we've 
done it twice in 25 years but 

424
00:21:45,008 --> 00:21:47,000
like now we've done it once, you
know, once in two years under, 

425
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,700
which like we're batting 50%, 
this is good like this, this is 

426
00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:51,500
all. 
So we have to keep this up. 

427
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:53,400
Like now you need to the portal 
next year. 

428
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,700
Be in the top five, I like well 
in you doing it but yes, and 

429
00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:02,000
this is where I'm sorry haters, 
but by Woodson seems to be 

430
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,000
making a lot of Headway. 
And as you said something early 

431
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,200
on in this, I feel like just an 
honor, Mike Miller, I got to 

432
00:22:08,208 --> 00:22:11,500
throw a sorry cops in after the 
sorry haters there. 

433
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:18,400
So I will you know, Woodson has 
the ability not just to operate 

434
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,100
well on the recruiting Trail, 
but also operate well in the 

435
00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:24,600
portal and the portal I think is
probably more important right 

436
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,200
now in that you would rather get
a A player who's been in college

437
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,600
a year or two, a known quantity,
at least to some degree in terms

438
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,100
of, you know? 
Okay, we know that they can at 

439
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:38,900
least play at this level. 
Maybe they haven't had the 

440
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,100
greatest statistical outlier, 
but I'll point you in the 

441
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:45,700
direction of Penn State who you 
know, made it into the the 

442
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,600
tournament and kind of 
overachieved for their station. 

443
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,200
How did they do it? 
They do it with players that 

444
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,100
they'd recruited and kept around
for four years. 

445
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:56,200
No, they did it with Jalen 
Pickett who played at Siena for 

446
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,800
three years and then transferred
they did it with Drew Funk who 

447
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,800
played at Bucknell for four 
years and then transferred into 

448
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,400
Penn State. 
This year, it is more important 

449
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,900
at this point, unless you're 
grabbing, like top 50 Bonafide 

450
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,000
Talent, like, like they did with
Josephine. 

451
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,400
Oh, and renew your doll. 
Most be better off at this 

452
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,900
stage. 
Filling your roster spots with 

453
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:18,900
players who, you know what 
you're getting. 

454
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,700
And you feel like mesh better 
with what you are doing and 

455
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,800
Indiana's in a really good spot.
Not just because of their ni O 

456
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,200
War chest. 
But also because Mike Woodson is

457
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,000
rapidly Starting, I think based 
upon things I've heard and just 

458
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,100
the overall reputation of the 
guy as it's starting to develop 

459
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,000
a guy who people want to go play
for who they look at. 

460
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,700
And say this guy knows that the 
NBA works. 

461
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:43,200
This guy can help me get there. 
He can help me become a better 

462
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,900
basketball player. 
And by the way, now he's got a, 

463
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:50,600
you know, a top four finish in 
the Big Ten and a four seed in 

464
00:23:50,608 --> 00:23:54,100
the NCAA to go along with that, 
that's only going to help as you

465
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,000
move along. 
So, I really think that right 

466
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,600
now I use in pretty good shape 
in terms of the direction. 

467
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,100
They're pointing now some of it 
will depend on obviously what 

468
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,500
they're able to do in terms of 
closing the deal with some of 

469
00:24:03,508 --> 00:24:06,400
the other outstanding players 
that are in the portal but I 

470
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,500
like Indiana's chances because 
all told like I use got the 

471
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:13,100
pieces. 
We just mentioned the ni L piece

472
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:16,300
to Woodson piece and they're 
starting spots to be had there's

473
00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:20,500
minutes to be had. 
And as we've seen with Florida, 

474
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,000
Atlantic with some of these 
other teams like you can put 

475
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,300
together a team that brings in 
players from outside and you can

476
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:29,800
turn things around pretty. 
Quickly, it doesn't have to be a

477
00:24:29,808 --> 00:24:32,200
situation. 
We had to take a step back, you 

478
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,800
can maintain that same level if 
you get the right pieces in 

479
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,800
place, completely agree. 
Well, I also think for next year

480
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
again, assuming the end, you 
know, we're all kind of assuming

481
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,900
the NCAA is going to Grant 
Xavier another year. 

482
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:44,300
But let's just, I will also do 
the same. 

483
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,000
If you have that it's like you 
have a man at point guard like, 

484
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:50,000
you know, as you're coming in 
and you're still, you know, 

485
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,600
Ludlow or wherever else to look 
into coming here. 

486
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,900
It's like, hey, we got a Glasgow
level. 

487
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:58,500
Mm, he's not here yet. 
Wow. 

488
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:02,100
Wow. 
Okay go on you know it's like 

489
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:05,400
hey we got a 23 24 year old guy 
who liked who is a you know, 

490
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:09,300
top-tier Big Ten, probably first
or second team all-big ten point

491
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:12,700
guard who can get you the ball 
and steady the team and like 

492
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:13,800
that. 
That to me is that that's 

493
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,700
another big selling point 
specifically for next year. 

494
00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:18,800
But no. 
I'm I'm in agreement with the, 

495
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,700
you know, the the portal to me 
is key and it's something that 

496
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:24,300
Tony had Ronge is as mentioned 
on this pot a couple times that 

497
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:27,600
it's like you know you just 
never know they can even mention

498
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,600
the recruiting services like 
you. 

499
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,400
Don't know the high school stuff
and you know, it's it's like 

500
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,000
when you draft guys in the NBA. 
And if I have no idea you know, 

501
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,400
women Jama looks really good but
it's a koozie playing against 

502
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,800
like how good is that 
competition? 

503
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,300
Where it's like it's a weird 
comp but it's like, I knew 

504
00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:44,100
Marcus Smart was going to be 
good in the NBA. 

505
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,300
Just like he played in college, 
he was a dog in college and he 

506
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,400
had a lot of transferable skills
and that's the way I look at the

507
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,200
portal where you can look at 
somebody who, you know, they put

508
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,400
up, you know, 18, you know, 13 
14 points in, you know, even a, 

509
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,100
you know, Oh Mac level school 
like you know Peyton Sparks out 

510
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:04,000
of those numbers in front of it 
you know whatever Peyton Sparks 

511
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,100
put up a heat. 
He's at least playing against D 

512
00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:08,600
level competition. 
Like you don't need to worry 

513
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,900
about, you know, being away at 
home for the first time, you 

514
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:12,500
know, playing college basketball
for the first time. 

515
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:15,500
Like yeah, the competition is 
going to be bigger in the Big 

516
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:19,100
Ten in the Mac, but that's a 
smaller jump than, you know, 

517
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:24,100
even high level AAA you to D1 
and all the things that go 

518
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:26,000
around with it. 
And so there's it's much more 

519
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,900
transferable and, you know, I 
think Is a world where you 

520
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:33,600
don't, if you're Indiana, you 
don't need to seed recruiting. 

521
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,700
You still look to recruit some 
pieces here or there. 

522
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:38,500
But there's also a world where 
you're like, you know what, we 

523
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:41,700
could also just let other people
get the dudes and seat and let 

524
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,600
them try it. 
Kind of turns the smaller 

525
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,100
conferences into the farm system
which that's a whole different 

526
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:49,700
podcast but kind of like, hey go
see if if you're good, go put it

527
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:51,500
up in western Michigan. 
Go put up 20 points again. 

528
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:53,000
In West Michigan and then we'll 
talk. 

529
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,500
That's kind of like Peyton 
Sparks wanted to play at IU. 

530
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:57,100
He's an Indiana kid. 
It's like, you went and bought 

531
00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:59,300
state did well and now he's He's
going to play it. 

532
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:03,600
I you, this is how it works in a
lot of other sports across the 

533
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:04,800
world. 
It really is. 

534
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,300
I don't know. 
People don't like it about, you 

535
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:09,800
know, changing the college game 
but that look the idea that, oh,

536
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,800
I'm gonna have to play there for
years. 

537
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:16,300
It's not really, I mean, if 
you're that good as a younger 

538
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,200
player, you'd like to earn a 
player to lower level, as a 

539
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,900
younger player, you'd you'd 
wanted the opportunity to move 

540
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:24,600
up to the next level. 
And look for those. 

541
00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:26,900
As we look at who else they're 
looking at. 

542
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,900
They're looking at Ludlum from 
Harvard, and we're waiting to 

543
00:27:29,908 --> 00:27:31,600
hear on that. 
They're looking at this.this 

544
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,600
kid. 
It sounds like that. 

545
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,000
One. 
Like there's very few like 

546
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,600
crystal ball. 
Sights on right portal, but it 

547
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,400
looks like he's as close to I 
use. 

548
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,000
You can get other. 
Yeah, couple other visit. 

549
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,000
There's some visit, I think 
there's a visit to like st. 

550
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,600
John's or something happening. 
You've also got this Dalton 

551
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,800
connect out of Northern Colorado
who looks like an intriguing 

552
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,200
option. 6680 kind of guy who can
play the two or the three, you 

553
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,800
know. 
But also say this like 

554
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,000
Indiana's, got some young Talent
at the guard position to go 

555
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,100
along with z. 
Our Johnson, you've got Gabe 

556
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:02,300
cups coming in, you've got 
Yokai, Newton coming in, you've 

557
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:04,300
got tray. 
Galloway coming back, you've got

558
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:07,500
CJ gun coming back. 
And who knows? 

559
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:10,700
I mean, it may be a situation 
where the coaching staff feels 

560
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:13,900
that that group is, well, 
positioned to be able to handle,

561
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,000
you know, at least defensively. 
And, you know, obviously, you've

562
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,900
got some proven commodity 
scoring wise with would save 

563
00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:22,900
your Johnson with Trey Galloway.
They really like what? 

564
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:25,900
They're getting out of Gabe cups
as he comes in as a freshman. 

565
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:29,500
So, maybe they look at that and 
they say well gosh, another 

566
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:32,600
shooter would be great to have, 
but it needs to be more of a 

567
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,400
like that Miller cop sized 
person as opposed to being a 

568
00:28:36,408 --> 00:28:39,300
smaller player who would take 
minutes away from Folks. 

569
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:43,200
At the to, it's funny the same 
people who are raging about IU, 

570
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,400
not getting shooting yet, or the
same people who were raging 

571
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,400
about CJ gun, not getting more 
minutes during the regular 

572
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,700
season, say well, hey, now's the
chance. 

573
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,400
And, and I think, you know, 
again, as you and I have said 

574
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,400
for a decade. 
Now it's okay to have Players 

575
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:02,100
like sit for a year and learn 
and develop some skills. 

576
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,000
And even if they don't show it a
whole lot, an individual like in

577
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,700
their freshman year, you know 
they might show at that next 

578
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:10,900
year. 
It is possible for players to 

579
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,600
actually develop into something 
bigger than what they were when 

580
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,000
they first started. 
And so we'll see what happens 

581
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,900
with all of that. 
They'll be more to talk about 

582
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:20,600
with this. 
Obviously Scott as we get closer

583
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,800
to do what 33 scholarships open.
Well well more to the point 

584
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,200
we've got like five and a half 
Six weeks left in the portal, 

585
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,600
the portal isn't close to the 
end of May. 

586
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,300
And so, you know, we'll talk 
probably on Memorial Day because

587
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:37,200
we'll know for sure, at that 
point, like here's what the 

588
00:29:37,208 --> 00:29:40,200
roster is going to be, but we 
got time until we got to get to 

589
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,700
that point. 
And so the last thing that I 

590
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:47,100
like and this is very just, you 
know, anecdotal but you know, 

591
00:29:47,108 --> 00:29:51,200
when you talk about the the top,
you know, 5 or 10 recruits every

592
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,500
year, it just, you know, for 20 
years unless they have an 

593
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:56,500
Indiana tie, like a Romeo 
Langford, Eric. 

594
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:59,200
And it's just like you're not 
hearing like oh man the stud 

595
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,100
player I do or you know the 
stunt player out of it, you 

596
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:02,500
know, Idaho's looking at 
Indiana. 

597
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,700
It's just we're not in the mix, 
any of those conversations 

598
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,800
unless there's like a tie to 
Indiana, what's been kind of fun

599
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,500
this year in the portal. 
Again, anecdotal and I've been 

600
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,100
following a lot more on the 
college basketball, Reddit, as 

601
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:17,600
you pointed out. 
So this is its unaffiliated. 

602
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,100
So it's just kind of overall 
college basketball fans. 

603
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,000
It is kind of cool that every 
major person that's come out in 

604
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,000
the portal outside of Hunter 
Dickinson. 

605
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:28,800
It's been like, Indiana where do
they fit in? 

606
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:29,900
Like could they talk to my 
Caleb? 

607
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:31,800
Love Indiana. 
And again, this is an total 

608
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,800
means nothing, but it's like 
again, the portal is going to be

609
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,000
as important as recruiting and 
it does feel like this year and 

610
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:42,100
yeah, we have a lot of spots 
available, but it feels like 

611
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:44,900
Indiana is at least in from a 
red at point B. 

612
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:47,000
The conversation and a lot of 
these guys again, read, it 

613
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,700
doesn't mean anything. 
Not now these guys are taking 

614
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:52,700
visits, but it does feel like 
we're, we're the Zeitgeist 

615
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:57,600
unlike we've ever been in any of
the other years of like, The top

616
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,400
nine recruits people are talking
about, you know, Indiana, it's 

617
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,500
nice, isn't it? 
Yeah, I Indiana, is it's well, 

618
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:11,000
just I, you know, just a feels. 
It's always the IU fandom and 

619
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,100
talking about IU basketball, has
become fun. 

620
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:17,400
It's become so fatalistic. 
It's, you know, and it's been 

621
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,600
like, it's all, I don't know. 
It's so frustrating to listen to

622
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,200
people talk about IU. 
You know, I had someone who 

623
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,200
contact it was weird. 
Dming back and forth pretty, you

624
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,900
know, well-established person 
in, in the overall content 

625
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:37,900
sphere of, I you who actually 
said, well, you know what? 

626
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:41,100
If they don't win the Big Ten 
title and the and and get to the

627
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,800
Sweet 16, like, you know, what 
happens? 

628
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:45,900
And I'm like, what do you mean 
what happens? 

629
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:48,600
Like well, what if this is just 
as far as they can go and I'm 

630
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,700
like mean what this year or as a
program and as like was as a 

631
00:31:51,708 --> 00:31:55,400
program it's like well no that's
that I just reject that 

632
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,200
hypothesis out of how we Watch 
Yukon who like, you know, won a 

633
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,200
title in 14. 
Hit rock, bottom fired. 

634
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,400
Their coach for cause in one of 
the sleaziest University legal 

635
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,400
Maneuvers, that I think I've 
ever seen because they didn't 

636
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,200
want to pay him the buyout that 
they had like legally promised 

637
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,200
him. 
Go hire a guy who you know, had 

638
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,100
coached at buffler Buffalo and 
Rhode Island. 

639
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:20,100
I think we're his top two stops 
before that and over a five-year

640
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:22,900
period of time. 
He resurrects that program back 

641
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:24,600
to the point where they win a 
National Title. 

642
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,400
I mean, this this idea That IU 
is somehow going to be incapable

643
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,700
of achieving anything more than 
what they had on the table this 

644
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:35,400
year. 
I just don't get it. 

645
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,800
I don't get the mentality and I 
think in the fans it's even 

646
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,000
worse than some of the observers
surrounding the team because 

647
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:49,300
fans you know that everybody 
wants to get fans in an uproar 

648
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:53,400
and IU fans are so easy to stir 
up because they're so they're 

649
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,600
kind of like the Kentucky fans 
in a lot of ways and that they 

650
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,100
are. 
They are so Zest with not just 

651
00:32:58,100 --> 00:33:00,300
how good their basketball team 
is doing but how they are 

652
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:04,300
perceived Nationwide as a 
basketball power or lack 

653
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,900
thereof. 
And it's the easiest way to get 

654
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:11,300
IU fans like on the defensive 
and down as if you start talking

655
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,600
about, well they're just they 
don't matter and they'll never 

656
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,900
be good again, which all of that
is crap. 

657
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:19,500
It doesn't have to be that way. 
It is, it is entirely a series 

658
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:22,200
of managerial and strategic 
choices and we're starting to 

659
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,500
see with Woodson and and under 
Scott, Dolson, in my opinion. 

660
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,300
Ian, the beginnings of a 
reorganization of how I you does

661
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:34,400
things, and whether that is 
through recruiting, utilizing 

662
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,300
the portal, the types of players
that I use been able to get, 

663
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:40,300
which they have not been able to
get before that consistently the

664
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:42,700
utilization of Ni L. 
Like all of those things come 

665
00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:47,300
together in a way that might, 
you know, finally indicate that 

666
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:50,800
Indiana is really taking 
basketball, like seriously, not 

667
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,800
just we want to win, but we are 
doing the things that have to be

668
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,300
done in order to win and I think
I you, as we've said before on 

669
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,900
this podcast, is really, really 
like, really well suited for 

670
00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:06,100
this particular ERA with NI L 
with the portal and it's 

671
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:08,300
exciting to watch. 
Indiana utilizing it while 

672
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:12,300
Syracuse as just an example that
I saw today is losing players 

673
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:14,600
who out the door saying, yeah, I
don't really think Syracuse is 

674
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,800
taking and I'll seriously like 
it just doesn't seem to be 

675
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,300
something that they're 
interested and this was one of 

676
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:20,199
the players that transferred to 
to West. 

677
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,800
Virginia said that like you 
would much rather be where 

678
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,100
Indiana's at right now. 
Anyway I'm gonna get off my 

679
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:28,100
soapbox. 
Ox, but that just all kind of 

680
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:30,199
led me to wanting to say all of 
that. 

681
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,900
So I think it leads in well, to 
kind of the the Yukon discussion

682
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:37,000
two ways. 
I'll wrap up your thought with 

683
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,000
this that, I think you're right.
It's not the best analogy, but 

684
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,900
you know, when you con one their
title and I have a couple of 

685
00:34:45,908 --> 00:34:49,000
Yukon thoughts and we both want 
to talk about but you know, they

686
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,400
now have five titles, they're 
tied with Indiana and kind of 

687
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,100
the overall title list and there
was a lot of like people looking

688
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:59,100
at that list of, you know, it's 
UCLA Kentucky and then, you 

689
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:02,200
know, North Carolina and then 
were there with you Yukon 

690
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,500
Indiana and it's like, well, you
know, of all those teams 

691
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:07,000
Indiana's wanted to. 
It's just kind of like, we look 

692
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,200
bad in comparison to a lot of 
those teams in historical late, 

693
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,600
historical records. 
So that to your point in like, 

694
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,200
Indiana fans, it hurts. 
But it's like, that's true. 

695
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,400
We've not had the success 
lately, and we're probably not 

696
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,500
at that level right now, but the
idea that like it can't ever 

697
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,500
happen again. 
I think that's all just BS 

698
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:28,300
because again, Not the best 
example, but one that I've 

699
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:31,500
always thought is you look at, 
you know, Alabama football right

700
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:33,600
now for any of the students in 
your class. 

701
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,200
It's like that's just a behemoth
and that's like, I don't know 

702
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,200
how that how that ever is going 
to stop like every year they're 

703
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,800
getting, you know, 25 5 stars 
and like, man. 

704
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,700
That's just that how do you get 
that thing rolling? 

705
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,600
Like, the late 90s early 2000s, 
that program was an absolute 

706
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,000
mess. 
It wasn't that, what mean they 

707
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,800
weren't a mess for long? 
But like, Alabama was not doing 

708
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,300
well, they have losing Seasons, 
the SEC, they were not making 

709
00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,500
bowls, but, you know, the 
Structure was there. 

710
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,600
You see the right person to come
in, figure it out, wire it up, 

711
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,200
and then once you get going, 
you're good to go. 

712
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,900
Me cleanse and footballs another
great example, like they were 

713
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:07,700
just out in the wilderness for 
20 years. 

714
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,100
It's like they had all the 
infrastructure. 

715
00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:11,000
They had a great state and 
everything there and it's like 

716
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,400
it can be done. 
Georgia is another example, 

717
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,700
haven't been yes, what Georgia 
is another example in football 

718
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:18,600
now. 
Now, you know, you can you can 

719
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,200
make and you can make the 
argument while they're in good, 

720
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,300
recruiting grounds will guess 
what? 

721
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:26,800
Those Indiana basketball. 
And it's easier to build a 

722
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,000
basketball team that it is to 
build a football team anyway. 

723
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,100
The other thing I think that's 
interesting with Connecticut and

724
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,800
obviously not probably not a ton
of Connecticut fans listening 

725
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,000
this, but if there are, you 
know, championships are 

726
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,200
championships. 
Like you get a banner and they 

727
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,900
won this year. 
But this is something that was 

728
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:45,600
talked about before the 
tournament on a One Shining 

729
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,100
podcast. 
But that they were even saying 

730
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:51,700
this, this tournament even going
into it felt very much, like one

731
00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:54,400
of those years were someone's 
going to, you know, air quotes, 

732
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,000
steal a title and it did. 
Play out that way where it just 

733
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,400
felt like obviously things were 
open. 

734
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,500
It was a weird final four, you 
know, I look like 2021 like 

735
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:05,900
Baylor, you know, really want a 
lot of big games to get like it 

736
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:10,400
felt like that was a real title.
But my point is it feels like 

737
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,700
three of the last titles for 
Connecticut you know the Shabazz

738
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,000
Napier year and the Kemba 
Walker. 

739
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200
Your did feel like those were 
you know they wanted me to put 

740
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,600
Butler in the files on the boat 
was a bad team but it's just 

741
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:24,200
stole is not the right word, but
it does feel like you kind of 

742
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,400
just like you were in the right 
place, right time. 

743
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:28,300
That year and yet, it might 
break. 

744
00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:31,300
And it does feel like they've 
had a lot of good breaks and 

745
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,900
like they've been hot the right 
year in the right tournaments, 

746
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,000
unlike some teams that are, you 
know, really good. 

747
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,400
And just they end up, you know, 
losing and tough matchups or 

748
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:44,100
teams that are just dominant and
wind titles. 

749
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:48,400
It does feel like a lot of their
their championships are kind of 

750
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,700
like you know stolen Zone where 
I could think of but hey I don't

751
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:56,300
know, I I strongly disagree. 
I mean look you you win a title?

752
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:58,000
Win a title. 
I mean, if we're going to start 

753
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,200
getting into that debate, I 
mean, you can go back and look 

754
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,500
at. 
I mean, Kentucky is going to 

755
00:38:02,508 --> 00:38:05,000
claim a bunch of titles. 
If your definition is well, 

756
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,600
whoever the strongest team was, 
or he had to be in the top three

757
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,500
or four, strongest teams should 
have been the ones to win the 

758
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,000
title. 
I just from my perspective, when

759
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:18,300
I look at this year's UConn 
team, they were, and you can 

760
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:22,200
look at Ken Palm like they were 
legitimately that strong. 

761
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,300
They got a little bit downgraded
because they played in the Big 

762
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:28,600
East and they ended up Up 
playing teams that had scouted 

763
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,100
them really well and then they 
just put it back together. 

764
00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:34,900
And that was one of the greatest
maulings of a series of 

765
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:38,900
opponents in a tournament that 
we've ever seen in college 

766
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:41,900
basketball. 
So I have a real hard time. 

767
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:46,100
You know pointing at anybody, 
that's won a title. 

768
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:48,500
I mean you can look at Virginia 
like Virginia had to have two 

769
00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:51,700
overtime games and a bunch of 
you know, questionable calls and

770
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,200
you know, a Hail Mary 
essentially to win their title. 

771
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,300
I would I don't think anybody 
would go. 

772
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:59,700
I can say that that one was like
a stolen title or that, that it 

773
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:02,500
wasn't deserving. 
So I get, I get what you're 

774
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:06,000
saying. 
I just, I think to some degree. 

775
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,100
What makes college basketball 
work so? 

776
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:14,400
Well, is that it doesn't really 
matter who the regular season 

777
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,700
best team was, what matters is 
what happened at the end of the 

778
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:21,200
tournament and that's why the 
tournament matters. 

779
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,900
It's why, you know the at the 
end of the day for IU Winning 

780
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:29,900
the Big Ten to me is far less 
important than getting to the 

781
00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:32,200
final four. 
Winning a national title because

782
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,800
ultimately, you know, most 
people could not tell you who's 

783
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,200
won what titles Conference 
titles. 

784
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,700
But everybody should be able to 
tell you who was, who's won the 

785
00:39:40,707 --> 00:39:44,000
national titles? 
And if you need a win, is a 

786
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,400
seven seed and somehow figured 
out a way to win the national 

787
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,200
title. 
There's no way that we would 

788
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,400
ever say, well gosh, they didn't
deserve that. 

789
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,800
Yeah, no, I agree. 
You know, if we did, I'm Kara, 

790
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,400
I'm happy if we could win five 
more stolen titles, like in. 

791
00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:00,300
My definition, it's just I get 
that feeling any way we can move

792
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:02,600
on. 
It's just it is they're tied 

793
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,000
with us now and it's wild that 
they did all of this since our 

794
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,000
last title. 
Yeah. 

795
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,200
Well I mean look, I mean and 
this is where I've already on 

796
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,800
record earlier in this podcast 
as saying I think I you is doing

797
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,200
the right stuff now that you 
know, they've hired a coach who 

798
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,700
seems to have really taken to 
the job. 

799
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:22,300
They're doing really well on the
recruiting Trail. 

800
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:23,500
They're using an eye, all very 
well. 

801
00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:26,200
But this is what happens when 
you stop taking your. 

802
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,500
Program as seriously as you need
to, for essentially 30 years. 

803
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:35,900
And from from allowing bob 
Knight to, you know, take entire

804
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:39,000
Summers off to go fish rather 
than focusing on recruiting and 

805
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,700
putting the right players in his
program. 

806
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:44,200
To putting Mike Davis in a job. 
He wasn't ready for to 

807
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,000
inexplicably hiring K Samson. 
When they knew he was under 

808
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,100
probation to letting Tom crean 
gut the program and then, you 

809
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:54,300
know, go off in the directions 
that he went towards the end to 

810
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:56,300
hiring Archie Miller who was a 
dead fish. 

811
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:59,700
Essentially upon arrival, like 
there were so many poor 

812
00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:02,500
decisions made throughout the 
course of the entire time, that 

813
00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:03,900
UConn's been winning these 
titles. 

814
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:07,300
And, you know, maybe this is 
the, I mean, I think the wake-up

815
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,600
call already happened a couple 
of years ago, but this is where 

816
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,300
it's like, well gosh, they've 
caught Indiana, Dukes caught 

817
00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:18,100
Indiana, you know? 
I mean, it's like, if Purdue won

818
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:19,900
a title. 
Would that wake everybody up and

819
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:23,000
be like, oh, like wow, we should
probably take this more 

820
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,400
seriously. 
And again, I think, I think 

821
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,400
Indiana is now. 
But this is where Where this is 

822
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,300
what happens when you stop doing
that and you kind of let other 

823
00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:34,800
teams and other programs, take 
the initiative and become the, 

824
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,100
the core of college basketball. 
I mean, you know, Yukon Michigan

825
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:39,400
State. 
Those are the teams playing in 

826
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,500
like, you know, the classic at 
the beginning of the year or 

827
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:46,000
Kentucky your North Carolina, as
an Indiana, in a couple of 

828
00:41:46,008 --> 00:41:50,200
decades, because no one like 
Indiana's taking themselves, not

829
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,200
seriously enough, and so many of
those Seasons that they haven't 

830
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,300
deserve that mantle and teams 
like you. 

831
00:41:56,500 --> 00:41:59,200
You might debate or not like 
some of the things that they've 

832
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,700
done over the years, but they 
have taken themselves seriously,

833
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,900
and this has been the result. 
And the last thing I'll say is, 

834
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:07,800
it's, it's annoying. 
But it also is a glimmer of 

835
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,900
hope. 
And that all the programs you 

836
00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:12,800
mentioned have just a consistent
coach. 

837
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,800
I mean, you know, Kentucky is a 
different breed because they're 

838
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,600
always going to just hire five, 
you know, to get the best coach.

839
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,200
But you know, like you said 
Michigan State, like it's a 

840
00:42:20,207 --> 00:42:21,500
happened. 
All under is oh like I want to 

841
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:23,600
see them do it without is. 
Oh like you North Carolina. 

842
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,100
They did it. 
They had one really good 

843
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:26,600
decision. 
Getting Roy Williams I'm like 

844
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,600
let's see how thick how they 
continue doing it. 

845
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,600
Hubert Davis you know, Duke the 
owner, Chef ski like they'll 

846
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,600
still waiting to see how it goes
that our new guys. 

847
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,800
The the the frustrating thing is
like you can also made mistakes.

848
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:41,400
They've made mistakes and last 
25 years, but they figured him 

849
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,900
out quickly and it's not like, 
they just had it something that 

850
00:42:43,900 --> 00:42:45,900
you can just like all Jim 
Calhoun like got him fight like 

851
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:48,900
no, he got him three then I only
got one, early got one thing, 

852
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,200
it's the multitude of changes 
and bad decisions and changing 

853
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,600
conferences than good decisions 
that have been there. 

854
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,500
But This is also, this makes me 
feel happy as an IU thing 

855
00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:02,100
because if all the other teams 
out there are just like in that 

856
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,200
Michigan State mold where it's 
like, well you just got to find 

857
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,600
the is, oh he's got to find that
coach who's great? 

858
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:09,600
Like, well, that's tough. 
But, you know, you cam shows 

859
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,500
that you can make a lot of 
mistakes, but as long as you 

860
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:15,300
start making some good 
decisions, the you can cover up 

861
00:43:15,308 --> 00:43:18,100
for the mistakes, very quickly, 
I'm just, you know, it's a good 

862
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:22,300
point and I don't know. 
I'm constantly amazed people 

863
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:23,900
talk like that about Mike 
Woodson. 

864
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:25,500
Like, he's gonna retire next 
year. 

865
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:28,200
And, you know, and it's like, 
Like Jim Calhoun won a national 

866
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,300
title. 
I think when he was 68 or 69, 

867
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:35,200
you know, I mean the the idea 
that you can't be an effective 

868
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,200
coach. 
I mean, you have to be 

869
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,600
effective, you have to recruit 
effectively, you have to do all 

870
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,200
the things you need to do, but 
everything you're seeing out of 

871
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,400
Woodson. 
So far, if you're really taking 

872
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,200
the last two years into account,
has been pretty positive, and 

873
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,100
he's 65 years old, just turn 65,
you know, I think it's guys got 

874
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,800
quite a bit left to become one 
of the most active teams in the 

875
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,700
portal. 
Like he's resting though, I 

876
00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:01,600
know, you know. 
So so I just you know, overall I

877
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,500
think a lot of a lot of people 
get hung up on with coaching and

878
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:12,100
with programs is its kind of off
the beaten path from what 

879
00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:14,500
reality is sometimes and 
ultimate, like you said Indiana 

880
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:18,300
needs, they need some stability.
They need a clear path forward. 

881
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,900
They need to some degree to 
become a program that is bigger 

882
00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:24,800
than any of their coaches and 
that to me is the thing that's 

883
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,400
been missing, you know, I mean 
all the talk of what you can't 

884
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,700
replace bob Knight. 
Well, you know what Dean Smith 

885
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:33,400
was? 
As much of a legend as bob 

886
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,200
Knight was at North Carolina 
somehow North Carolina? 

887
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Yes. 
They made a bad hire that first 

888
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,700
time, but somehow they figured 
it out and they figured out how 

889
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:44,400
to, how to replace Dean Smith 
pretty easily. 

890
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,400
You know, I mean, having won two
national worth three times. 

891
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,900
Yes there, any Guthrie made a 
final force, you count him and 

892
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:53,200
then it's a mini of Roy 
Williams. 

893
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,300
And yeah, yeah, so at Kansas is,
is another Like you know, Kansas

894
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:02,300
has been a solid like top-tier 
program and you can make an 

895
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:04,600
argument that the best coach 
that they had over the last 40 

896
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,600
years, wasn't one that won a 
national title and that was Roy 

897
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,500
Williams, you know, but self was
able to win a couple afterwards 

898
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:13,300
and obviously Larry Brown 11 
right before. 

899
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,100
So, you know, this is where I 
look at Indiana and I say if 

900
00:45:17,100 --> 00:45:19,100
you're going to, this is what I 
mean by taking your program, 

901
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:22,500
seriously, where the per the 
coach is very important, but 

902
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,000
this is like, I think Dukes 
about to find this out, you 

903
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,000
know, all those Oh, you wouldn't
know it. 

904
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,900
I mean, there's so desperately 
trying to push on Shire forward 

905
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:32,200
is like yes. 
See how great he is. 

906
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,900
It's like, yeah, let's give him 
a couple of years but Michigan 

907
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:37,000
State. 
Like there's no clear Heir 

908
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,400
Apparent when Tom Izzo, finally,
hangs it up. 

909
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,000
That's a program, I could see, 
you know, struggling to maintain

910
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,900
because it is such a cult of 
personality around what is 0 has

911
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:50,000
done up there much like Chef ski
at Duke. 

912
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:54,100
And so, I think for Indiana, the
aspiration has to be, how do we 

913
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:58,200
create a program that sustains 
That Mike Woodson can do great 

914
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,600
things in and then whenever he's
ready to pass the Baton on the 

915
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,700
next person whoever it is, it's 
not dependent upon them, right? 

916
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:10,200
And that's the you know, that 
was honestly that's why the Tom 

917
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,000
crean thing fell through. 
It's yrt Miller never really got

918
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,700
off the ground because it was so
dependent on anything. 

919
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:19,400
You look at the tears K, Samson 
was here the year and three 

920
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,400
quarters. 
The fact, he was able to turn it

921
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,100
around so quickly from where 
Mike Davis had. 

922
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:27,100
It is another illustration that 
it was so dependent on the 

923
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:29,700
abilities of the individual 
coach. 

924
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,100
And I think if you're going to 
be in that top tier programs, 

925
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,500
and again, this is where your 
football analogies come into 

926
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,500
play. 
You have to be able to survive a

927
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:41,900
retirement or somebody leaving. 
And I'm hoping Indiana's, 

928
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:44,800
finally, learned that lesson 
because UConn certainly learned 

929
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,900
it and has been able to figure 
things out from there. 

930
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,000
So anyway, okay. 
Any final thoughts before we 

931
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,800
wrap up, I think we're good, 
man. 

932
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,200
Okay, good talking with you. 
And we'll do this again. 

933
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,700
And probably the end of the 
month, unless there's big 

934
00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:01,900
transfer portal news, then we'll
obviously tackle that as it 

935
00:47:01,900 --> 00:47:04,100
happens. 
But anyway, thanks to all you 

936
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:08,200
folks for checking us out once 
again and we look forward to 

937
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,200
chatting with you again. 
Soon. 

938
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:12,700
This is, of course, Crimson 
cast. 

939
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:15,000
Be sure to subscribe, like, 
right. 

940
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,300
Do whatever you do on Apple 
podcast or Spotify will catch 

941
00:47:19,300 --> 00:47:20,800
you folks on the flipside, 
thanks to our friends at the 

942
00:47:20,808 --> 00:47:24,200
back home network. 
Thanks to our friends at home 

943
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,500
field apparel. 
Bring back the And so everybody.