1 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,480 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:22,160 Field Apparel. Hi folks welcome back to Crimson 3 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,560 cast again. I'm in the the pilot seat. 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:25,960 It's so weird. Galen's just sitting there. 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,600 I'm going to put him on mute. He can't say anything. 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,480 I can say what I see you about to talk I. 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,960 Can't talk. This is like trying to trust 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,920 early self driving cars. Like really it has that like I'm 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,000 assuming at some point we're going to like careen off of a 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,080 Cliff. So welcome to. 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,960 Waymo, everybody we are. We're coming up on a crosswalk. 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,120 What are we going to do? It's got us to do a live read. 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,080 Oh my gosh, no. Welcome back to Crimson Cast. 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,240 We're having some fun. I have Galen, of course, we have 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,720 Tony Adronia because we are here to talk about Pacers. 16 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,640 I know that we are AIU focus podcast, but you know, last year 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,600 Tony and I dipped our toe in the Pacers waters had just haven't 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,600 had the personal time to put into it. 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,280 But what a run by the Pacers second finals in in franchise 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:07,360 history. It's something that we need to 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,920 talk about because there is you know, there's this Hoosier 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,120 adjacent pieces. Let's get a joke, like the joke 23 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,800 would be like let's talk about Thomas Bryant, but let's 24 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,000 actually talk about Thomas Bryant. 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,920 We'll get to that. Just some great stuff. 26 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,160 But as always, you know, if you are going to the finals, you 27 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,480 will see home field apparel in the Pacers store. 28 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,280 They have some great stuff. You know that coming off the 29 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,480 heels of May with a great racing jacket that Alex, Alex Pelo 30 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,880 wanted to to get. I think him and paddle award 31 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,640 both got it. And then Pelo won the 500 and I 32 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,360 don't think he was wearing the jacket in his car, but maybe you 33 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,760 know, shortly thereafter. If you want to get any home 34 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,800 field gear, check him out some fantastic stuff and use the 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,680 promo code home 23 to let them know that Crimson cast sent you. 36 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:51,040 Also check us out on sub stack crimsoncast.substack.com. 37 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,960 We have all kinds of insider VIP videos. 38 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,280 Tony and I've been hopping on doing some pastry stuff. 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,120 You also just get a nice e-mail letting you know that a new 40 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,960 podcast is available. And so that's always fun. 41 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,160 And then finally, you're not watching us on YouTube. 42 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,080 You should check us out. We're going try screen right 43 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,640 here. You're going to see some some 44 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,240 fun stuff. You see what Galen's drinking 45 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:09,639 looks like? Pepsi Cherry. 46 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,440 Pepsi, Pepsi 0 Cherry, who's not sponsoring us? 47 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,240 So we'll be censoring that later, right? 48 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,240 We need to get like Doctor Thunder, we need to get 49 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,560 something like that or oh, and Tony's drinking water. 50 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,560 OK, so we're doing all kinds of beverage stuff that you coffee. 51 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,880 This is all the some fun stuff you see on YouTube. 52 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,600 I think we're pushing 7000 subscribers strong. 53 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,440 It's a great way to get podcasts. 54 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,680 I've been listening to a lot of podcasts on YouTube as well. 55 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,800 It's fun. It's what all the kids are 56 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:35,520 doing. They say. 57 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,000 So guys, here we are. Let's recap a little bit of the 58 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,640 Knicks Pacers series. Pacers win in six. 59 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,040 I'll just kind of open it up. What were your guys's thoughts 60 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,840 on the series as a whole in the final game six that the Pacers 61 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,240 kind of took control and won? Tony, why don't you start? 62 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,640 I'd love to get your thoughts. Yeah, the the guys, it was 63 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:00,600 open-ended there, Scott. I know, I know. 64 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,920 Getting out of the cockpit seat, I'm I'm not in the pilot. 65 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Turn off the autopilot for a second there. 66 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,320 We're back on now. The no, the the next series was 67 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,840 fantastic in terms of just, I mean, everything you could 68 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,360 probably have asked for as a Pacers fan, like best case 69 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,880 scenario pretty much happened. You know, you went in the 70 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,920 Garden, which like I think most people would have been happy if 71 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:30,000 you, you won one. You know, you, you assume that 72 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,600 you, you probably are going to lose 1 of the ones at home. 73 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,840 They did they lose game three, they bounce back game four, win 74 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,840 that. You lose at the garden, bounce 75 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,360 back game six, win handily wrap up the series at home. 76 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,200 Like prior to, you know, I was, I was so nervous for for Game 6, 77 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,240 but it was like prior to the series, if you're like the 78 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,320 Pacers are going to have a chance to clinch game six at 79 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,360 home, you know, you're like taking that not, you know, 10 80 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,800 times out of 10. So I I thought Rick Carlisle was 81 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,200 masterful. I think he has been obviously 82 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,480 he's one of the best coaches in the game and he has been for a 83 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,880 long time, But I really think he's flexing his muscles right 84 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,800 now this playoffs. I think with the Bucks and then 85 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 just the dismantling of a Cavs team that I do want to remind 86 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,640 people was was pretty similarly set up to this Oklahoma City 87 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,000 Thunder team. And so, you know, flexing his 88 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,400 muscles there. And then I think in the Knicks 89 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,760 series, you know, the Knicks would throw some wrinkles out, 90 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,240 you know, props to Thibodeau, but Carlisle would always come 91 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,960 out the next game with with adjustments for that. 92 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,680 And so, you know, for me, it was just like him flex his muscles. 93 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,400 The Pacers stars came to play most of the time. 94 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,720 You know, Tyrese kind of had a tough Game 5, but and then 95 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,360 Indiana's bench really just outplayed the Knicks bench top 96 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,120 to bottom. I think they outscored him by 70 97 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,080 or 80 points in the entirety of the series. 98 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,840 So, you know, it's all the things that have made the Pacers 99 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:59,360 great the last two years. They continued to shine in this 100 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,200 series with the Knicks and there wasn't really a lot of surprises 101 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,040 outside of maybe that Thomas Bryant 3 point barrage where, 102 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,520 you know, it was really out of character of what the Pacers 103 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,440 were doing. They just won doing what they've 104 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,360 done. Yeah, I mean, I echo almost all 105 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:15,800 of that. Tony hit all the great points 106 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,160 there. Look, the the big thing for me 107 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,680 was as follows, like the the setup in the series, everything 108 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,880 hinged on that comeback in the fourth quarter of Game 1. 109 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,880 And I, I think that much as the, you know, the, the, the, the 110 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,880 Bucks probably will always have questions about like, could they 111 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,960 have knocked off the Pacers if they don't have the injury to 112 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,520 Lillard? Like what happens in that 113 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,760 scenario? I, you know, I don't know if the 114 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,600 Pacers maybe they win game two, game three-game four and it's 115 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,120 back to the Garden up three one anyway. 116 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,760 But I, I heard this on one of the podcasts covering it. 117 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,160 It's like when that shot went in that sent it to overtime that 118 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,120 that bouncing shot from Halliburton. 119 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,080 It's almost like the Pacers stole the team of destiny 120 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:10,360 narrative from the Knicks mentally and emotionally, and 121 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,920 suddenly they were the team that was getting the lucky bounce in 122 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,160 that series. And so that's how it plays out 123 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,760 the rest of the way ultimately. But look, whatever, however you 124 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,760 want to break this down, this was a close series between the 125 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,000 Knicks and the Pacers, but it was just, it was clear to me 126 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,640 that the Pacers were just a bit better. 127 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,360 They were better constructed, they were better coached. 128 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,600 The Knicks had better overall talent amongst their starting 129 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,120 five, but that's kind of a poor way to evaluate the two teams 130 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,320 because the Pacers weren't built on the conceptualization of 131 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:49,280 having the best starting five. And I'm with Tony, like I, you 132 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:52,280 know, the Game 5 was disappointing, but it's the kind 133 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:55,000 of game it's not too different from what the Thunder looked 134 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,400 like in game three against the Timberwolves. 135 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,200 They didn't have to win that game. 136 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,760 And I think they got about midway through that third 137 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,280 quarter and they were like, we're not winning this game. 138 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,280 We're not going to worry too much about it. 139 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,840 And frankly, I found all of the questioning of the Pacers effort 140 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:15,480 and intensity level in that game to be silly given that it's A7 141 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,240 game series for a reason. It's not a bowl game in 142 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:19,840 football. It's not a playoff game in 143 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,360 football. It's not a winner take all. 144 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,280 The Pacers had given themselves the cushion of being able to 145 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,520 lose that game, you know, do a strategic retreat essentially 146 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,840 and put themselves in a position where they could capitalize in 147 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,920 Game 6. And if you look at what Carlisle 148 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,600 did, whether whether it was intentional that he held Nemhard 149 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,800 off of defending Brunson until Game 6 to give him a totally 150 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,640 different look, or whether it was forced by Nesmith's injury, 151 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,160 either way, him knowing he had that in his bag of tricks that 152 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,160 he could throw out there just adds to the overall, I think, 153 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,400 excellent coaching job that he's done and the excellent 154 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,800 managerial job that he's done with this roster and how they've 155 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,800 approached it. So it was heartening to me that 156 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,760 my one big regret is I went to game three. 157 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,680 I went to Game 4I, flew back from Atlanta on Saturday. 158 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,360 I should have just gone to Game 6. 159 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,880 I would have paid for the ticket because that looked like an 160 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,120 absolutely nutty, amazing experience in that arena. 161 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:18,880 I'm I'm jealous that I was not there. 162 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,680 So with the effort piece, you're you're not with Greg Doyle's 163 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,840 line of questioning for Siakam after Game 5. 164 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,400 Set the whole thing and I know why. 165 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,560 Greg, Greg, The problem is Greg Doyle was trained in an era 166 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,480 where you had to ask those questions because you had to 167 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,919 sell newspapers the next day. Like we knew so much less about 168 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:39,240 basketball in the 90s and 2000. It was funny 'cause see, Occam's 169 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:40,799 answer was actually great. She's like, bro. 170 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:43,080 You still talking like bro? We still talking like bro? 171 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:43,840 What? What are you? 172 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,520 Doing it's just like again, and, and I, I had friends talking 173 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,520 about this because I think for a lot of people, this is still how 174 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,480 we evaluate basketball. And I think you can ask those 175 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,720 questions at the college level where you do have to like have 176 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,080 it all on the table in a game because it's a winner take all. 177 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,800 But there's ebbs and flows in the NBA on purpose. 178 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,200 And I just felt like the idea that how could that team play 179 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,800 harder than you? Well, of course, the Knicks were 180 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,600 literally backs against the wall. 181 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,680 They were in front of their crowd who they had disappointed 182 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:21,520 in the first two games. Like under the best of 183 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,440 circumstances, that is an almost impossible task. 184 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,800 And again, it's exactly what happened with Oklahoma City in 185 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,160 Game 3 when they went in and got buzz sawed by the Timberwolves, 186 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,200 A Timberwolves team that then could not repeat it in Game 4. 187 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,680 So anybody I think who's been involved in professional sport 188 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,040 or competitive sport or just understands how the flows of 189 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:42,640 these things go. And Tony, please tell me if I'm 190 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,520 wrong on this. But like there, there is going 191 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,240 to be a moment a great team or a team that's really coalesced 192 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,440 will come up short in the effort department. 193 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,000 But if you've given yourself the cushion, I don't think that's 194 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,080 the right time to ask a question. 195 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,440 Ask that question in Game 7. Don't ask that question in Game 196 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,280 5. Yeah, yeah, certainly so. 197 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,840 And and I think like, I think Pascal was really just trying to 198 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,400 find a way to quantify what happened. 199 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,320 I don't really think he truly like, you know, that effort is 200 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,080 always kind of the word people use when somebody gets the floor 201 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,960 wiped with them. But it's not necessarily just 202 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:15,680 effort. It's execution. 203 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,800 You know, it's, it's all these different things. 204 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,840 And like Pascal is just trying to simplify like how they played 205 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,680 harder than us. And then it got into this weird 206 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,080 semantics thing of like, how does that happen? 207 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,400 It's like, well, that then Pascal was like, that's 208 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,920 basketball, dude. Like every every time that 209 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,000 happens. When building off of this, you 210 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,960 know, you got you guys had a lot of things for this, but you 211 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,640 know, I I look at this is, you know, game one, people could 212 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,760 look back at that and be like, man, if that Halliburton shot 213 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,160 doesn't go in, you know, you could easily be like, oh, well, 214 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,080 you know, this game would be going back, you'd be going back 215 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,320 to New York for Game 7. But as both of you said, like, I 216 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,760 don't think that's the case because I think in the end, 217 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,160 these are both two really good teams. 218 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,720 The Pacers looked better. But I'm a kind of echoing what 219 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,400 Ryan Rosilo said on his podcast that, you know, like you can't 220 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,440 just like one affects the other. So like, if, if the Knicks win 221 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,960 game one, maybe the Pacers still win Game 2. 222 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,760 But all of this changes where it's like the Pacers were able 223 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,280 in Game 5 to not not try, but it's like they knew they had 224 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,240 game six at home. Not that you're like not trying, 225 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,880 but you knew you had that. If they didn't know that, maybe 226 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,880 they play that game differently. And this is also a racilo thing 227 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,000 is that you can't teach your coach desperation. 228 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:21,960 Like the Knicks had it in game five. 229 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,040 They knew they had to win three in a row. 230 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,720 So I, I don't, I don't think it's as easy as just saying 231 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,240 that. The thing that I'll say for the 232 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,960 series as a whole is, you know, with the Knicks, you're right, 233 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,600 GAIL. And like, maybe they're top five 234 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,360 or better, but it's like this is the ultimate. 235 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,280 Like this is not a feature. It's a, you know, it's not a 236 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,760 bug. It's a feature of this team. 237 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Tibbs plays six guys and so they're running so many minutes. 238 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,320 Also, their two guys, Brunson and Cat, are just such unique 239 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,920 players. You see it with the Pacers, how 240 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,120 they built around Halliburton and they found guys who can work 241 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,600 within the Halliburton structure and Hal Burton's a unique player 242 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,600 in his own. You saw it with the Knicks where 243 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,880 they have these moments where it's like this is not really a 244 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,240 team built around Brunson. It's not really a team built 245 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,920 around Cat. It's like trying to build around 246 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,680 both of them. You couldn't do that. 247 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,960 And for me, the moment where I felt great, it didn't work out 248 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,520 so much in game in Game 5. But you know, you had Game 3445 249 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,480 and six are. He had a lot of moments where 250 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,520 it's like, this is a big moment. The Knicks need a shot. 251 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:21,680 And it's like Landry Shamit's taking that shot. 252 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,200 And I'm like, he made a couple of like, that's great because I 253 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,280 will take that all day long. And to me, that was where I'm 254 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,240 like, man, this is a wild moment because like, Tim's going deep 255 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,440 into his bench. You're playing Landry Shamit. 256 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,280 You're playing Precious Ochua. It's like DeAndre Wright or 257 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,920 Laundre Wright. Like it's like these guys Dion 258 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:39,280 Wright. Yeah. 259 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,280 It's like we're in a good spot and like I'm fine with this 260 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,240 series being in Landry Shamit's hands. 261 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,720 Well, I'm, I'm curious what Tony's thoughts are on this, but 262 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,440 I think in our last pod that we did previewing Eastern 263 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Conference finals, I might have made this point or I might not 264 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,520 have. My brain doesn't work very well 265 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,880 anymore, it feels like. But I remember back when the 266 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,560 Pacers lost to the Cavs about, you know, a little over a decade 267 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,760 ago. And they they had gotten to the 268 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,440 Eastern Conference finals utilizing the build that one 269 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,640 would use in the 2000s. You know, a large person in the 270 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,200 middle and a, a group that was kind of complimentary to the 271 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,360 idea that you were going to score through efficiency in the 272 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,560 post. And it was clear in that series 273 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,840 that that was no longer the formula that you could use to 274 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,480 get to the, the, the NBA championship. 275 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,440 Like you, you, you're not going to win a title that way. 276 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,800 This felt like the inverse, like the Pacers were now on the front 277 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,080 foot from a structural perspective and the Knicks 278 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,000 designed A-Team around what you would have used eight years ago 279 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,080 to get to the finals. And I, and I just think 280 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,600 ultimately it's the, it's where Indiana is so lucky to have Rick 281 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,880 Carlisle. And you know, I, I give 282 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,440 Pritchard and, and the rest of his GM team their flowers. 283 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,240 Like they saw they got lucky and we'll talk about how they got 284 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,960 lucky in a couple of ways with the personnel assemblage, but 285 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,200 they saw the future and they figured out how to coach and 286 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,800 structure the team around that. And you know, look at the 287 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,120 Knicks, like they go and get a dominant big man who can't 288 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,120 really play defense. They've got a ball dominant 289 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,360 guard who doesn't really play defense and they have to keep 290 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,120 those guys on the floor because they can't score. 291 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,960 But by having them on the floor, they can't play defense 292 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,400 effectively. And they've got a coach and 293 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,840 Tibbs, who is very much a coach of the the late 2000s, early 294 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,920 twenty 10's and how he conceives of the NBA working. 295 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,240 And it doesn't feel like it works that way anymore. 296 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,160 And all you have to do is point to the Thunder and the way that 297 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,600 they're constructed compared to some of the other teams in the 298 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,040 Western Conference, and you see the exact same pattern. 299 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,160 Yeah. I mean, I, I think you kind of 300 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,320 hit the nail on the head there and just how these two 301 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,600 franchises essentially play basketball. 302 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,200 And, and one, I know I'm biased being a Patriots fan, but one is 303 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,120 much more aesthetically pleasing than the other. 304 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,200 I can tell you that much. You know, the, the, the Knicks 305 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:04,440 kind of grinded out ball screen late shot ball screen isolation 306 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,920 like that. That's like I said, late, late 307 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,680 2000s, early twenty 10s style of basketball. 308 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,200 And really, you know, like the Warriors kind of flip things on 309 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,480 its head with with Steph and those guys, but that's and the 310 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,600 Spurs as well. But like that's the style of 311 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,320 play that Indiana's used under Rick Carlisle. 312 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,080 And so, you know, it's it's fantastic to see. 313 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,840 Like you said, the Thunder are very similarly set up. 314 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,520 But yeah, I I don't think, I think the Knicks kind of went 315 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,040 all in with this group going to get Bridges and we're going to 316 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,040 talk about that here in a bit. But to me that that's not really 317 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,040 a a roster that's that's set up to win an NBA title. 318 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,960 Just the way that it it's currently constructed. 319 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,200 They've got good talent, but it's definitely not two way 320 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,280 talent in in the way that it's constructed. 321 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,760 And then if you're only going to play 6-7 guys, you're really 322 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,240 banking on a lot of good injury luck. 323 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,440 Well, this is something I find fascinating in sports. 324 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,160 It happens across all different sports. 325 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,920 You have these moments like, you know, Tony mentioned that the 326 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,960 Warriors where everyone's playing big and then suddenly 327 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,120 it's like, holy crap, this teams playing small and they're 328 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,520 shooting and shooting a lot of threes. 329 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,320 This is the new wave. And it's like, wow, why did 330 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,400 anybody think of this? Like, well, going against the 331 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,760 grain means exactly that. Like you need to go against the 332 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,120 grain and, you know, then suddenly all these teams in the 333 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,920 last couple years were building around two or three stars, you 334 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,000 know, trying to get two stars and building out around that. 335 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,920 And like, let's kind of get big again. 336 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:30,960 And then the Pacers go against the grain. 337 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,160 And I I think it was not so much like let's do something 338 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,640 different. It's just they they looked at 339 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,400 what they had, they saw something unique in Halliburton. 340 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,080 It's like we're going to build around this. 341 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,040 And they did. And it was going against the 342 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,480 grain. But it's so you see it all the 343 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:45,720 time. Like it happens in the NFL where 344 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,960 team suddenly you start playing a wide open style. 345 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:48,920 It's like, why do I think of this? 346 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,280 Like, well, because everyone who does groupthink, it's like 347 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,560 because you're all doing the same thing to do something 348 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,320 different, you have to do something different and go 349 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,560 against the grain. And it's it's wild. 350 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,040 It looks so stark when it works, but you know, it's, it's cool to 351 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,960 be on this side of it where it does look like we've positioned 352 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,280 ourselves to have a nice spot for the next couple of years. 353 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,040 But it's, and this is where you have to so one of the great 354 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,119 subplots that we heard and read about in a lot of podcasts and 355 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,560 articles about the, the, the, the, the Eastern Conference and 356 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,839 Western Conference Finals combined was that both the 357 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,560 Thunder and the Pacers, and now it's the Finals themselves. 358 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:32,680 Both teams were built off of the proceeds of respective Paul 359 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,720 George transactions, which is cool 'cause if you roll that 360 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,880 back, I think it goes all the way back to like 2008 in terms 361 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,000 of like where all the asset trails go. 362 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,080 But so much of what happens in the NBA is essentially a, it's a 363 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,600 dice roll. This might work based upon what 364 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,040 we think is going to happen, but you really have to have things 365 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,120 fall your way. And we've seen a ton of teams 366 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,400 make big bets on certain players or certain transactions, and 367 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,600 they just simply have not worked. 368 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,040 The Brooklyn Nets essentially for their entire history in 369 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,920 Brooklyn have been an example of this. 370 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,800 The Pacers nearly got on the wrong side of history because if 371 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,840 you'll recall like that, the Halliburton trade happens in I 372 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:18,080 think like February of 2022. What else almost happened in 373 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,760 2022 nearly altered the trajectory of this franchise 374 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,880 forever. Because if you'll recall, all 375 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,880 the buzz that offseason and the actual thing that happened was 376 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:33,280 the Pacers making a Max offer to DeAndre Ayton, which the Suns 377 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,600 matched. So he ends up not coming here. 378 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,720 They don't acquire Pascal Siakam until January of 2024. 379 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,240 And, you know, part of that Ayton thing was the Suns wanted 380 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,080 Miles Turner and there was supposed to be some kind of 381 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,320 potential sign and trade there. That doesn't happen. 382 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,160 Ayton is now with the the Blazers, and I don't. 383 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,600 If you want to frighten yourself, go look at his 384 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,000 basketball reference page from the last two years where I think 385 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,440 he he played only 40 games this season. 386 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,280 I mean, that's a door the Pacers were ready to walk through. 387 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,560 They were not allowed to walk through it. 388 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,680 They end up having to restructure around this roster 389 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,000 and this roster is the one that ends up taking them to 390 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000 back-to-back Ecfs and then the finals. 391 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,360 You need though, I mean, the there's a story. 392 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:19,920 The Warriors were ready to trade, I think Klay Thompson for 393 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,400 Kevin Love and that was going to be done. 394 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:23,560 And then it's like, no, we're not. 395 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,120 You know that. I think the the, the Minnesota 396 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,560 backed out on that one. Here's kind of my sliding door 397 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,480 as you look at the history of the Pacers is I'm going to go 398 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,880 back not that far, but I'm going to go to 2020. 399 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,360 So this is the lineup for the 2020-2021 Pacers in in number of 400 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:40,720 minutes. I'm going to go with the top 12 401 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,080 guys. This is not that it's only four 402 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,800 years, five years ago. You know, Sabonis, Malcolm 403 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,160 Brogdon, Victor Oladipo, Karis LeVert, Miles Turner, Justin 404 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,960 Holiday, TJ Warren, TJ McConnell, Oshie Present, Doug 405 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,040 McDermott, Jeremy Lamb and Aaron Holiday. 406 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:56,960 I mean, they flipped a lot of those guys. 407 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,480 Now to me that the other sliding doors moment is the coach of 408 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,040 that team was Nate Bjorkman and but but this is something that 409 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,880 we talked about. Wanted to be hired from again, 410 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,360 yeah. Well, we talked about the Item 411 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,280 fight a lot. That was his first year 412 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,840 coaching. You could have, you know, in a 413 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,520 way. The Pacers always get chided for 414 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,720 being too conservative and not making any changes. 415 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,840 They fired him after one year and they hired Rick Carlisle. 416 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,920 That looked to be a good choice. Too often sometimes we see teams 417 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,120 and, you know, sports where they, they, they give guys too 418 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:28,280 much legal. You could have very easily been 419 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,680 like, hey, man, Bjorkman's first year, we'll give him two or 420 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,360 three more years. And then you suddenly slide into 421 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,960 the abyss of where the Hornets are, where every season you're 422 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,280 just like that, you know? So I, I look at that as a real 423 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,640 sliding doors moment, too. Tony, I want to hear from you, 424 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,320 but ironically, where is Nate Bjorkman coaching now? 425 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,200 Don't know with the Blazers. He's an assistant coach with the 426 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,320 Blazers right now. So. 427 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,200 And I want to hear, you know. Yeah, the other funny thing that 428 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,800 I've heard is, you know, through all this, obviously we traded to 429 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,040 get Halliburton from the Kings and the Kings traded deer and 430 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,400 fox. And I've heard like one of the 431 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,680 podcasts, one of the this the Kings GM is now saying we're 432 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,720 looking at a point guard in the in the in the draft this year. 433 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,240 If I was the owner of the Kings, like you're fired, like you're 434 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,000 just fired right now anyway. It oh, it's insane. 435 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:22,200 But to that point, I think where Pritchard and Chad Buchanan and 436 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,400 those guys really deserve a lot of credit is the projecting 437 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,400 they've been able to do when essentially they've they've lost 438 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,640 all leverage in their last two big transactions or or really 439 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,880 three with Paul George. He made it known I won out. 440 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,560 So it's like, well, crap, man. Like Pacers like don't have any 441 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,120 leverage. Everybody knows that he wants 442 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:43,640 out of there. He turns that in. 443 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,720 He projects that all the depot and Sabonis are going to project 444 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,440 into pretty solid players. Both turn into All Stars. 445 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,960 All the depot says he wants out turns that into who did we? 446 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,240 Always hurt, by the way, just throwing that like, gets hurt 447 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,320 and right, yeah, double, double whammy. 448 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,160 Who did we even acquire for Oladipo? 449 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,080 Was that a? We got hurt. 450 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,920 It was part of a deal with Harden. 451 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,200 I think we were part of a three-way. 452 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,280 I'm doing this by memory. And that got us LeVert. 453 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,040 Though Paris LeVert for Oladipo, yeah. 454 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,320 And then so bonus it, it was like, hey, miles weren't going 455 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,160 to work. You knew you had to get rid of 456 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,680 them. And then you turn that into 457 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,840 Tyrese and Buddy. Yeah. 458 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,280 Just to clarify, the the Oladipo trade was a four team trade that 459 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,240 involved the Rockets, the Nets, and the Cavs. 460 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,080 The the Rockets got Oladipo, the Pacers got LeVert and the Pacers 461 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,720 got a second round pick. So that was that was essentially 462 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,600 the Pacers. Side and they quite literally 463 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,080 turned. Into Nemhart, I believe. 464 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,520 I think that was the Nemhart pick. 465 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,840 Well then, in the pace, in classic Pacers fashion, 466 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,920 literally as they acquire LeVert, he gets cancer and 467 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,640 misses. Misses like six weeks or 468 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,880 something like that in his physical to become a Pacer. 469 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,320 So, you know, it was at that point where I'm just like, all 470 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,240 right, like these guys are just this organization's cursed. 471 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,840 And then within two years are in the Eastern Conference finals, 472 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,440 within 3, they're in the NBA Finals, which is just insane. 473 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,040 But the fact that Prichard has been able to leverage those 474 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,640 assets, project on guys like Tyrese, project on guys like 475 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,200 Sabonis, like that's pretty much the NBA draft process, right? 476 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,760 You're trying to hit on things of, of projections to me that 477 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,920 that speaks volumes kind of to, you know, their, their 478 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,200 evaluation process and and how that they can project what guys 479 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,680 would be able to do. And then with like a Nim heart 480 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,440 and a knees myth project in advance more than they even can 481 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,200 and say like, Hey, let's lock you up now to these deals that 482 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,880 maybe don't make a lot of sense at the time. 483 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,680 Like, man, they're really paying Andrew Nimhart a lot or they're 484 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,280 really paying easement a lot. And now those dudes are on value 485 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,880 contracts. The thing that I find 486 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,320 interesting is there a couple people you listen to are kind of 487 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,160 saying, oh, the Pacers, you know, they went all in to get 488 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,400 Siakam. It's like they didn't like they 489 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,800 they, you know, they signed Bruce Brown in that offseason 490 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,200 after the Nuggets won it all. They gave him 20 million, which 491 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,480 was basically like, I've heard this called. 492 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,800 He was like human trade exemption, like you just you 493 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,400 sign up for 20. That was way more than anybody 494 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,840 was willing to pay. But it's a it's a great number 495 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,800 to trade. The second year was a team 496 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,160 option. So it was basically a one year 497 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,680 contract. They trade Bruce Brown, they 498 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,360 trade two first round picks, which were that year. 499 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,840 So they already are gone. And one of them wasn't theirs. 500 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,120 It was a Thunder pick that was going to be the end of the 501 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:20,600 draft. They were both basically high 502 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,920 second round, late first round picks and they traded away their 503 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,920 2026 first round pick, which looks like next year isn't going 504 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,120 to be a super high pick. You know, I look at that versus 505 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,600 what the Knicks did for Mikhail Bridges. 506 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,720 They gave up that the the Knicks sent away Bojan Bogdanovic, not 507 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,160 to be confused, Bogdan Bogdanovic, who we played for 508 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,160 the Pacer. Lots of Bogdanovic's, a couple 509 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,440 other players. But they also traded away a 510 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,240 first round pick in 25, a first round pick in 27, a first round 511 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,160 pick in 29, a first round pick in 31, a pick swap in 28 and 512 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,400 four top protected 2025 first round picks, like 9 first round 513 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,040 picks. That's called going all in. 514 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,960 I mean, that's the thing that I think is so cool about this is 515 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,120 the Pacers have built this on smart moves, smart contracts. 516 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,880 And if they want to air quote go all in, they still can. 517 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,640 They only, there's only one pick. 518 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,040 They don't have a first round pick. 519 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,040 A future first round pick they don't have is 2026. 520 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,400 They have all their other first round picks. 521 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,480 They've given up a couple to get like OB top and second round 522 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,320 stuff. But I think that's also the 523 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,200 pretty amazing part is so many of these teams out there are 524 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,960 just giving away tons of assets to get players, and the Pacers 525 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,640 really haven't done that. Yeah. 526 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,240 I mean, and, and you also have to throw into this and this, I 527 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,200 think we mentioned this before, this is a team that's doing all 528 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,120 of this on the margins the few times they've had high level 529 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:42,880 draft picks. They didn't do great. 530 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,640 I mean, if you go back and look at at what they've done and 531 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,680 we'll throw in Jairus Walker in this as well, who who at least 532 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,640 was able to contribute a little bit finally in two games of the 533 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,120 Eastern Conference final and then going to Tony's cursed 534 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,320 point got injured immediately. But and. 535 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,040 Looks like he might be able to play in the finals though. 536 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,560 Like I don't know how watching that but it looks like he's only 537 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,040 missing. Two games, but, but you know, 538 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,960 you look back and in in 2023, they trade the 7th pick to the 539 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,800 Wizards and they get Walker back with the 8th and Walker's been 540 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,800 OK but hasn't really contributed that much. 541 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,320 They get Ben Shepard with the 26th pick of that draft and you 542 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,280 know, I think for a 26th pick, he's been a pretty good value 543 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,200 overall. They should almost trade all 544 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,240 picks down into the 20s 'cause they did really well in that 545 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,040 mid. In 22 they picked Benedict 546 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,080 Matheran and I think the jury is still out on whether Benedict 547 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,520 Matheran is reliable. He was clearly a key player in 548 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,120 this series, but they nailed the second round pick with Andrew 549 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,440 Nemhardt that ends up being a really high value pick. 550 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,200 Their first round pick in 2021 was Chris Duarte, who is barely 551 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,040 in the league at this point. Played 17 games for the Bulls 552 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,520 this season. They had one pick in town. 553 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,520 From where they go against the Greg because I think he was like 554 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,800 25. I have 24. 555 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,920 He was old. I have a Chris Duarte jersey 556 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,840 hanging up in my claw. FanDuel. 557 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,920 FanDuel had a promo where you could like make a bet and you 558 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,720 got like $100 free to fanatics get a jersey. 559 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,480 And that was like the Pacers future from In My Eyes was like, 560 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,480 hey, Chris Duarte because he started out gangbusters, man. 561 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,240 We have season tickets. We were supposed to do like an 562 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,800 in game thing with my son. Didn't able to, wasn't able to 563 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,160 happen. My son was sad the ticket Rep 564 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,560 sent us that offseason. 2 items, a signed basketball and a signed 565 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,760 hat. And like a ugly Pacers hat. 566 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,720 Like signed hats. Just you know the 8 year old's 567 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,680 going to ruin it. The hat was signed by 568 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,880 Halliburton, the ball was signed by Duarte. 569 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,280 And I'm like, could we just? Anyway, go ahead. 570 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,280 But no, I mean, and you go back from there, you know, Cassius 571 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,200 Stanley did not hit as a second round pick. 572 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,360 Gogo Batazde did not hit as a first round pick. 573 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,760 I mean you it's the link over OG and an Obi. 574 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,320 Among yes, I mean the the one pick you could kind of point to 575 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,720 and say, well, it was kind of a success was Aaron Holiday. 576 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,520 You know, so you you've had this lack of draft success in the 577 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,120 upper rounds of the draft and you've still managed to cobble 578 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,360 together not just a competitive team, but a team that is built 579 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,360 specifically around what they have with Tyrese Halliburton, 580 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,800 which Tony, as you pointed out, that was a real projection. 581 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,720 Like, can this guy actually become this type of a player? 582 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,480 People liked him a lot. I don't know that anybody would 583 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,760 have predicted that he would have been like this. 584 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,840 And that makes the engine go around all of this. 585 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,080 And it's just, it's, it is a real testament to it was a slow 586 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,920 build. It was a build I was complaining 587 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,120 about as recently as two years ago with Scott was so nice to 588 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,920 point out on the last podcast that we did. 589 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,320 But when it when it's when it clicked and really it was that 590 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,120 Siakam trade that I, you know, it was kind of the final major 591 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,360 piece. It felt like suddenly it's like 592 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,240 this is not only a group you can work with, but it's an 593 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,160 affordable group, which becomes more and more important than an 594 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,920 era where affordability is getting harder and harder to 595 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,360 come by for NBA teams. Also, just sorry, I want to 596 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,800 chime in one thing on drafting stuff. 597 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,760 Just, you know, the 2020 draft was weird because it was the 598 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,440 COVID drafts. There were no workouts. 599 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,960 It was all Zoom stuff. And and you look at how the 600 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,720 draft worked out and say why, you know, Bill Simmons loves 601 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,680 doing redrafts. Like it's a crazy redraft 602 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,680 because a lot of the guys up there are just not supposed to 603 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,400 be there. But what's also Pacers to me is 604 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,680 like, yeah, the Pacers, you got, you know, out of that, out of 605 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,160 that lottery, you have Obi Toppin, Jaylen Smith, who's not 606 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,080 with the Pacers, but was Tyrese Halliburton and Aaron Nesmith. 607 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,160 Like it's the Pacers identified that as a draft where it's like 608 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,960 there was a lot of guys who were drafted kind of incorrectly and 609 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,720 they really cherry picked out of that 2020 draft. 610 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,040 That was the draft that was in like November, right? 611 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,200 Yes, it was. Like right after the bubble and 612 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,120 all that, Yeah. And then like the season started 613 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,840 2 weeks later. Well, sorry Wiseman. 614 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:48,960 They had Wiseman too. I apologize. 615 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,880 They had the second. They have Wiseman on the team, 616 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,840 or did for a while, too. So five of the lottery picks in 617 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,000 2020 the Pacers have had. And here we are. 618 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000 Yeah. Well, with with Tyrese, 619 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,360 obviously, like you said though, Galen, he's the engine that that 620 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,080 makes this whole thing go. So being able to get that piece, 621 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,840 like I remember Scott within like the first week, you're 622 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,520 like, dude, you got to come to a game with me. 623 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,520 Like seeing this guy live is just insane. 624 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,800 Like, because it is though, like when you when you're not used to 625 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,560 seeing that and then all of a sudden you see this dude that 626 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,640 just has this fantastic court vision and and whatnot. 627 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,600 It's like it was it just immediately I felt better about 628 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,400 the Pacers future and his numbers. 629 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,800 I think his numbers jumped insanely even within that season 630 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,840 as soon as he became a Pacer where he really, you know, the, 631 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,120 the had the reins to the offense and he wasn't kind of playing 632 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,200 this Jekyll and Hyde with deer and fox. 633 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,760 Yeah, yeah, well, and the thing with Halliburton is he's I I go 634 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,880 back something Galen you've you've brought up a couple times 635 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,640 we've talked Pacers is, you know, the similarities in a way 636 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,240 between this and the mid 90s teams is, you know, Halliburton 637 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,440 and Reggie are different, but they're very similar in that 638 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,200 they they love the kill shot. They love the moment they play 639 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,080 well in big games. Reggie was a very unconventional 640 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,360 superstar in that he was a little bit roller coastery high 641 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,760 and low. Didn't he was going to give you 642 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,120 25 and, you know, 13 every night. 643 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,560 He was a little and you to really build things uniquely 644 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,880 around him. I think Halliburton's better, 645 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,960 but he's he's similar in the in the respect of he's not the 646 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,000 LeBron Anthony Edwards type where you're going to get, you 647 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,800 know, 2814 and 12 every night. You know, Halliburton is a 648 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,560 little bit more up and down. I would also say, you know, he 649 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,040 has these moments of brilliance that he has games where you're 650 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,040 like, man, it's rough. It's like he's also 25 and I get 651 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,160 when you're when you're suddenly, you know, being talked 652 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,120 about as a top ten guy, it's more about consistency and 653 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,720 that's what he's got to work on. But he's also still young. 654 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,120 He's still probably a here or two away from his prime, but 655 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,240 yeah, you see the stuff that he does and it really is one of 656 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,440 those where you can't just look at the box for or the 657 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,920 highlights. You have to watch the whole game 658 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,080 and you look at the way that he's able to infuse the way he 659 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,920 plays basketball with, you know, in this series, you know, there 660 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,640 was a play where Miles Turner had a wide open 3 and just saw 661 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,080 Siakam and just threw it like, no, you're getting the ball 662 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,200 thrown into Siakam. I look at that because there's 663 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,880 always second, third passes. Guys are giving up open shots 664 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,800 for a better shot, which is very unusual in the NBA. 665 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,280 But I also look at the way Pascal Siakam, you know, and 666 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,200 Tony and I talked about a lot last year, It's like it's going 667 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,080 to take time for them to figure out how to play together. 668 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,880 Pascal is playing so much faster than he ever played in Toronto. 669 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,960 But you see it where he, Pascal, has now realized like, oh man, 670 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,720 if I just Sprint and I get out every time, I'm going to get 671 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,320 eight points a game just on like layups and dunks. 672 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,680 Obi Toppin is similar in that respect. 673 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,640 But just seeing how, you know, high level players are changing 674 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,080 their game to play with Halliburton because they know 675 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,760 he's going to get him the ball. He sees almost everything and 676 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:42,920 he's going to make the right decision. 677 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,760 It is. It's so cool to see a team built 678 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,960 around that and being built around unselfish basketball. 679 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,320 Yeah. That like literally they're, 680 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,280 they're together like, and that's a big piece of it. 681 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,320 Yeah. It's also it's a stylistic 682 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,240 choice though. And I think one of the things 683 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,920 that is interesting and, and I think a small part of why the 684 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,280 NBA establishment didn't know how to deal with the 90s Pacers 685 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,800 and doesn't really know how to deal with these Pacers is that 686 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,880 it's it's really a team where it's not really predictable who 687 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,720 the second best player is going to be on any given night or even 688 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,040 the first best player. But they can still win because 689 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,480 they have this cast of characters that can rise up and 690 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,080 contribute at a really high level and then sink back into 691 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,160 the background. And they even got guys that can 692 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,640 come off the bench that can do that. 693 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,360 You know, the fact that you've had Mathurin come in and 694 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,960 contributed a high level statistically. 695 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,360 You know, the fact that you'll you'll get a great individual 696 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,880 game out of TJ McConnell one night. 697 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,640 I mean, you'll get those things individually. 698 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,840 But there's almost always dedicated stars on either end of 699 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,760 the floor that we're used to following along with in the NBA. 700 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,120 And I think for a lot of analysts, it, it almost takes a 701 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,000 rewiring of your brain in terms of how you think about the NBA. 702 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,360 But it's a stylistic change that the league now to some degree 703 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,760 allows because of how standardized the three-point 704 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,440 line and the corner threes have been. 705 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,520 And also the idea that you can push pace, that you can play at 706 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,360 that level if you have the right personnel set. 707 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,280 And that can neutralize not having, you know, a, a dominant 708 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:28,239 scorer or a dominant, you know, assist person in every single 709 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,679 game. I I think this, this formula can 710 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,159 easily not work. And and I think that's where 711 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,560 there's a lot of skepticism and you can make an argument to some 712 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,080 degree that like the Cavs were the supercharged version of 713 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,520 this. And yes, they had some injuries 714 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:47,000 in that semi final round, but they broke down because they 715 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,199 almost got they they reverted to Donovan Mitchell will win the 716 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,800 game for us in in most of those games. 717 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,760 And it didn't work. And it and when he got his ankle 718 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,440 tweaked or whatever it was in game five, it was like, well, 719 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,840 that's that's kind of it for them because if they can't rely 720 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,960 on him to carry the load, much like with Brunson or with Towns 721 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,280 with the Knicks, it was over. And the Pacers are almost never 722 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,600 out of these games because they aren't so reliant on anyone 723 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,880 piece and because it can be any one of the five people that are 724 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,520 in the starting lineup. And we kind of saw every single 725 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,760 one of them have their moments in the first 3 rounds of the 726 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,720 playoffs, which is pretty cool, but just very unorthodox for 727 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:29,840 this particular league. But I also think this this goes 728 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,680 into just another highlight of how good of a coach Rick 729 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,480 Carlisle is because you look back if he won a title with the 730 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,120 Mavs, that Mavs team played completely differently than this 731 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,680 Pacers team did. He was a coach of the Pistons, 732 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:42,920 that team. Play differently, you know, 733 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,320 those those O3 to O7 Pacers play differently than these teams do. 734 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,840 Whereas, you know, picking on a guy like Tibbs that those team, 735 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,080 A Tibbs team plays a Tibbs way like you are going to play his 736 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,520 style of basketball. Or it does feel more like 737 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,400 Carlisle kind of, you know, looks all right, I'm going to 738 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,480 take a step back. What do I have? 739 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,920 I'm going to build a team around what I have versus we're going 740 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,320 to build a team around the way that I coach. 741 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,400 And to me, that's a a really cool. 742 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,240 I love coaches like that where it's like, you know, Belichick's 743 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,520 was kind of like that with the Pats. 744 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,280 Like I'm going to build my team based on the ingredients I have. 745 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,480 Not trying to do that. And I I think again, it just 746 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,800 shows the the vast difference in styles that Carlisle has played 747 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,600 and won at at a high level. And it shows too, to me, like 748 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,280 Carlisle, not only will he like, adapt to the team he's got, he's 749 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,960 adapted to the modern NBA. Like he's been around. 750 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,120 He's seen the ebbs and flows and how the game has changed and 751 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,840 he's changing alongside it and kind of on that cutting edge. 752 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,120 Whereas you've got, you know, guys, Doc Rivers, for instance, 753 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,200 like still coaches the same way that he coached the O 7 Celtics. 754 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,640 And like, that isn't gonna fly. And like, honestly, he was out 755 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,560 of the league for a bit. And I know we're gay. 756 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,320 I know why, Galens laughing. Really looking. 757 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,720 We've had no experiences with this whatsoever, Tony. 758 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,120 But yeah, so thankfully, Indiana Pacers have Rick Carlisle at the 759 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,160 helm and he's he's adapting well, the other. 760 00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:12,280 Thing that he does that you you see a lot of other teams do like 761 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,400 with the Knicks campaign wasn't playing well. 762 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,320 It's like, all right, he's in the doghouse like campaigns done 763 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,040 and that was just the end of his series. 764 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,600 You see it with the way Rivers coaches the the Bucks guys just 765 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,080 get you know, like Lopez, you're done with the Pacers just kind 766 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,680 of this feeling of like, all right, man, Thomas Bryant, 767 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,480 you've had two bad games like just take a breath. 768 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,720 We are going to need you and they needed him and he showed 769 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,640 up. You know, Andrew Nemhart was not 770 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,560 playing great the first couple of games, having a really hard 771 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,600 time. You know how to defend Brunson. 772 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,040 It's like game six, We're going to put you on him and you know, 773 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,000 we're going to give you some ideas and like, but we need you 774 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,360 to kick some ass. And you did. 775 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,520 And that's the other thing. Just like the Pacers are never 776 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,720 out of it. It does feel like no one's ever 777 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,080 buried on the bench, like math around a couple bad games, Like 778 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,840 all right, like brush it off, come on back and we're going to 779 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,440 need you. And I think that's also unique 780 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,360 is you just don't see a lot of teams where, you know, once guys 781 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,600 are in coaches dog houses, they're just kind of there and 782 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,200 it's really hard for them to get back out. 783 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,040 We're fields with Carlisle. They they've built this team 784 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:08,600 where it's like, alright, man, it's not your night. 785 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,200 No worries, But like tomorrow night is going to be your night. 786 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,400 And but you also feel that the coaching staff is trying to put 787 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,960 like with them hard, especially like we're going to put you in a 788 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,040 position where you're going to succeed. 789 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,800 And here it is Game 6. Go defend the hell out of 790 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,520 Brunson and you know you're going to do such a good job. 791 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,240 It's basically like he we got the head butt again that Starks 792 00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:29,000 gave to Reggie Miller. They just didn't call it this 793 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,120 time. Absolutely, yeah. 794 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,520 I mean it's. Yeah, I mean with. 795 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,760 All these flowers we now have to play the Thunder, who are a 796 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,760 really, you know, a really good team. 797 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,520 You know, the two things I'll say then I'll turn it over to to 798 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,080 you guys to give me your thoughts is, you know, from a 799 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,480 pro Pacer's point of view, the Thunder are really good. 800 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,080 There's no question about that. Everyone's talking about their 801 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,240 record. I will point out that, you know, 802 00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,360 the Pacers started, I think 10 and 15. 803 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,320 That was because they didn't have Nesmith or Nemhart, which 804 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,600 are huge pieces of this team. Once they had those guys back, 805 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,600 think the Pacers are the exact same record or one game worse 806 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,720 than the Thunder. So, you know, since Christmas, 807 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,640 it's not like the Thunder are much better just over the full 808 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,120 season. It is a true stat. 809 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,360 But like, since those guys have come back, the Pacers have been 810 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,200 playing at the same pace the Thunder have have, you know, not 811 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,320 gone to A7 game series this post season. 812 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,080 I would also say that, you know, Carlisle has a history of 813 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,200 postponing or holding back dynasties from starting. 814 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,920 You know, when he was with the mat, the Mavs, they went into 815 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,840 that series as a massive underdog because it was the 816 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,800 Heat, LeBron, and he broke the Heat. 817 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,520 I mean, he had JJ Berea guarding LeBron, JJ Berea's 511 guarding 818 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,520 LeBron in the post. And Lebron's head was just 819 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,440 broken in that series. He was able to do that. 820 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,800 And you do wonder if, like, is this a moment where you can 821 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,280 catch the Thunder before they start a run? 822 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,640 Is it possible? That's how I look at this 823 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,160 series. But I will say the Thunder look 824 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,600 good. They look scary. 825 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,160 And it's it's going to be an interesting strength on 826 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:05,560 strength. The Pacers don't turn the ball 827 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,040 over. The Thunder get teams turn the 828 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,600 ball over. You know, how's that going to 829 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,160 go? But I'll start with you, Tony. 830 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,080 What, what are your thoughts going into this series against 831 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,200 the Thunder? I mean, it's it's just another 832 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,040 series that I mean, the Pacers. Seriously, though, the Pacers 833 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,040 have been underdogs in every single series they've gone into. 834 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,080 I think it was seven straight games between the Cavs and the 835 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,320 Knicks. They were underdogs, Vegas, you 836 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,200 know? One of my pets been making me 837 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,720 and some friends some money this series. 838 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,400 Oh man, it's, it's been glorious. 839 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,280 It's it's been fantastic. But, and I'll probably do 840 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,440 similarly with the Thunder games because you know, I, I think 841 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,440 when you look at it on paper, obviously the Thunder are the 842 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,200 favorite. You know, like not even going by 843 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,960 Vegas lines, like they've got the MVP of the league. 844 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,600 They've got a historically great defense, but I think pace the 845 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,400 Pacers have things that can come back. 846 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,840 All of that as well. You know, I, I think the Pacers 847 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,240 are are every single player in their starting lineup except for 848 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,600 Tyrese is shooting over 40% from three in the playoffs. 849 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,360 And then, you know, Tyrese is obviously the engine that makes 850 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,760 him go. He has games where he can go 6 851 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,280 for 8/6 for 9 from three. He also has the ones where he 852 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,000 might go over 9 at No, actually, if he's not, if he doesn't make 853 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,400 like his first three, he's not shooting again. 854 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,360 What am I talking about? But you know, on paper, the 855 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,200 Thunder look better, but I, I have a hard time counting out 856 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,520 the Pacers just based on this playoff run. 857 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,600 Seems magical. I thought Rick Carlisle put it 858 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,520 really well when he was kind of congratulating the Knicks on a 859 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,160 great season. He's like, look, these dudes 860 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,320 just ran into a team on a magical run right now. 861 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,880 And like that's, that's true. Like they, they, but it's not 862 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,240 the, the run, though. I think most people are probably 863 00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,680 thinking he's talking about from like April through now in the 864 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,520 playoffs. It's from January, like from 865 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,160 January through now. They've been one of the best two 866 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,640 or three teams in the league in terms of record, in terms of 867 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,160 pace, in terms of adjusted margin, like all of those 868 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,000 things. So to me, I, I think the Thunder 869 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,720 are certainly the best team the Pacers have played. 870 00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,960 They have they're playing against the best player they've 871 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,320 played against, but I don't think that they are just leaps 872 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,280 and bounds better than the Cavs team that the Pacers absolutely 873 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,200 dismantled and kind of made look silly and like had them 874 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,520 questioning is like this how we want to build this team. 875 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,400 Yeah, I'll jump in on this. I mean, if you look at the stats 876 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:30,040 and the record since the All Star break, the Thunder are 24 877 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,280 and four and the Pacers are 20 and 9. 878 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,720 You know, so that's, that's A5 game difference essentially, or 879 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:41,080 4 1/2 game difference. If you look at the advanced 880 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,680 statistics in the playoffs, which I think like we've got, 881 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,160 we've played 16 games, both teams have played 16 games. 882 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,720 That is roughly 20% of an 82 game schedule. 883 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,840 So it's a pretty representative sample size of what you're 884 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,200 getting now. And and that to, to some degree, 885 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,600 I think that's where a lot of the national analysis has fallen 886 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,000 down in that they're comparing full season stats and full 887 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,560 season records between these two teams. 888 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,320 And Scott, as you pointed out, Pacers really haven't been whole 889 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,400 since the I mean, they got whole around New Year's and it's been 890 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,680 a different mode since then. But, but even looking just 891 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,640 within the playoffs, so up to this point, the Thunder are 892 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,960 outscoring their opponents by 10.8 points per game in the 893 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:27,240 playoffs, the Pacers by 4.1. The offensive like the net 894 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,240 efficiency difference. So basically taking offensive 895 00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:32,720 efficiency and subtracting defensive efficiency. 896 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,040 The Thunder are 10.8 which is the exact same as their points 897 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,320 difference. The Pacers are at 4.2 in 898 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,080 efficiency. Pace wise, the Thunder are 899 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,600 actually played just a little bit faster than the Pacers. 900 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,480 But that advantage for the Thunder becomes less when you're 901 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,800 used to playing a team that plays at that pace. 902 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,880 Whereas almost everybody else that they played in the Western 903 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,520 Conference wasn't playing that fast. 904 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,640 Denver certainly wasn't. Minnesota was not used to 905 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,880 playing at that pace either. And the Pacers had the advantage 906 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,760 of playing a Cavs team that played almost as fast as they do 907 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,480 and they got the better of them than that. 908 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,760 So you know, when I look at this, as Tony pointed out, yes, 909 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,160 the the Thunder are going to be the favorites. 910 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,960 They are kind of a ridiculous betting line favorite right now 911 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,520 in terms of I think they're -750 or -700 in the series. 912 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,640 Pretty much every prediction I've seen has been Thundering 4 913 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,440 or thundering 5. That largely is predicated on 914 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,640 the idea that the Thunder's defense is going to completely 915 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,200 jam up with the Pacers. Want to do that may be the case, 916 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,280 but all you've got is A2 game sample size in the regular 917 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,640 season, and I don't know if that's necessarily something 918 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,960 that you can point to it to some degree it's almost an advantage 919 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,760 to the Pacers because the Thunder are going to have it in 920 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,000 their heads that, hey, we handled these guys a couple of 921 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,320 times already, you know, we can jam up what they're doing. 922 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,280 I think the whole team right now is playing with a lot more 923 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,320 belief in what they can do because they've seen evidence of 924 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,080 it over the course of these three series. 925 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,040 And they've beaten 3 really good teams. 926 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,080 And I believe like the Pacers have beaten teams with an 927 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,960 aggregate better record overall than the Thunder have. 928 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,440 Like, I mean, the, the, the one over the Cavs is pretty 929 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,920 impressive. And as Tony points out, like, 930 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,360 it's not like the Cavs were. I mean, the Cavs were the number 931 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,560 one seed. Like that was a team that 932 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,880 everybody was a little bit concerned to, to see how that 933 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,240 was going to happen in the playoffs. 934 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:29,000 But they were as young as the Thunder and if you look at who 935 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,040 the Thunder have played so far, they've played three relatively 936 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,640 flawed teams to get here. I mean I have a hard time giving 937 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,800 them full credit against the Nuggets team that fired their 938 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,240 coach what, 2 weeks before the play offs started and clearly 939 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,200 had chemistry issues and clearly wasn't sure how to proceed and 940 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,560 that team took them to 7. You know the. 941 00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:50,320 Only thing with the Cavs, like they I think they won 64 games 942 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,760 this year and because like the the narrative has gotten odd 943 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,120 with that. I mean, I know like, you know, 944 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,360 Garland was hurt for one game, but you know, they were healthy 945 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,920 most of those games because we beat them in five. 946 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,160 It's kind of like, well, they sucked. 947 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,760 It's like, but no, they're the one seal. 948 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,960 Like that is more credit to us than the other way around. 949 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,040 It's like it's just kind of like, well, the Pacers had an 950 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,640 easy Rd. because they played a bad Cav. 951 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,120 Like they are they bad because we beat them in five? 952 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,680 Like doesn't that, don't we get any credit for that? 953 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,200 It's not a it's basically what happened to you football. 954 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,760 You know, it's exact same narrative. 955 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,480 Well, you so you beat Michigan. They must suck and well, hey, 956 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,120 they beat they beat Ohio State and Alabama. 957 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,680 Well, it doesn't matter. I so I look Tommy. 958 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,760 Scoring kind of jumping on the scoring piece, you know, for, 959 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,920 for you know what I, I look at, it is like I, it is weird to say 960 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,880 because the Thunder have won some playoff games, like one 961 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,440 40s, one 30s are putting up big scoring numbers. 962 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,880 But when you look in the playoffs, the Pacers right now 963 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,320 have six players averaging over 10 points a game. 964 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,320 Matheran at 10, Nemhart at 12, Niece Smith at 14, Turner at 965 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,040 1415, Halliburton 18, Siakam at 21. 966 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,680 You go to the Thunder, they only got 3 guys averaging over 10 967 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,880 points. You know, SGA is at 29.8, so 968 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,200 he'll get his 30, Jay Williams at 20, Chet Holger at 16. 969 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,640 Then it drops. You're like hard seems 9, 970 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,600 Caruso's 8, Dort is 7. You know, this, this has a lot 971 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,560 of hallmarks of some of the Knicks with Brunson and 972 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,800 definitely the Cavs with Mitchell where it's like OK. 973 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,680 And even the Bucks with Giannis, like, great, we'll let you go 974 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,480 nuts, you know, and I saw this, I saw this with the Cavs and the 975 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:22,640 Bucks. And we'll let Giannis and 976 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,320 Mitchell go nuts. And then some of those ancillary 977 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,000 guys, you just instinctively don't play as hard when it's 978 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,960 like every possession is Giannis going at it Like you don't 979 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,360 rebound as hard, you don't play as hard. 980 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,280 So I do wonder, like, where is the scoring going to come from 981 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,320 from the Thunder outside of those top two guys? 982 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,080 Are you going to be able to score at that clip to keep up 983 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:47,840 with the pace of the Pacers? Yeah, and to me, good offense 984 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,280 beats good defense and and I know that it's like defense wins 985 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,560 championships is kind of the mantra and all that. 986 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,920 You know, I think if the Pacers are clicking on all cylinders, I 987 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,520 think that their their offense will be tough to stop regardless 988 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,480 of I know that the the Thunder have you know, Door and Williams 989 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,840 and guys that were on the all defensive team. 990 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,520 That's the all. Defensive team is primarily 991 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,680 predicated on one-on-one matchups. 992 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,960 The Pacers aren't really trying to take you one-on-one unless 993 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,560 it's Pascal Siakam with a smaller guy on them. 994 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,760 Their offense is predicated on movement, spacing and things 995 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,600 like that. And then they have the best, in 996 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,880 my opinion, distributor as their point guard. 997 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,960 So to me, I I have a little concern about them putting a guy 998 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,840 with a lot of length on Halliburton and trying to lock 999 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,120 him up. But they have other guys that 1000 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,000 can create and their offense isn't predicated on one-on-one 1001 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,600 stuff, which is where I think the Thunder kind of thrived 1002 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,600 defensively. So I know I'm looking at this 1003 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,880 certainly with with through a Pacers lens, but I mean that 1004 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,720 that to me I think kind of works in their favor. 1005 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:55,600 Yeah, I mean, I look, the Pacers have to shoot well from three in 1006 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,400 this series. You know, the The Ringer did a 1007 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,280 really nice breakdown of, you know, the the advantages for the 1008 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,560 Pacers are going to be corner threes, which Oklahoma City 1009 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,320 generally does not try to defend particularly well. 1010 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,800 The, the, the Pacers have struggled or they struggled in 1011 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,680 the two regular season games against the Thunder in terms of 1012 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,120 they were, you know, the, the Thunder had the ability to 1013 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,680 switch basically everything, but they didn't have Chet Holmgren 1014 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,360 in either of those games. And Chet Holmgren can't quite 1015 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,160 switch as effectively with everybody as the line UPS that 1016 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,160 they were using in those first two games. 1017 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,400 So what does that look like? Because they are going to be 1018 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,720 playing him in this series. He's been, what, their third 1019 00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:36,880 leading scorer in the playoffs so far. 1020 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:42,840 The Pacers defensively are they're, you know, they're they 1021 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,000 are used to giving up baskets when they can easily get out in 1022 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,040 transition and get baskets in return to essentially negate 1023 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,080 whatever the other team did. The Thunder are probably the 1024 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,600 best in the league at getting back and preventing those things 1025 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,240 from occurring. So they're going to have to 1026 00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:59,120 figure out some other avenues on that. 1027 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,480 Ultimately, if the Pacers allow their offense to get gunked up 1028 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,640 the way that it got gunked up in games, 3:00 and 5:00, they're 1029 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,880 gonna have a real hard time throughout the course of this 1030 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,240 series. But if they're scoring 1031 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:16,000 consistently and if they've literally if they can get the 1032 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,680 ball movement to the point where they've got three or four people 1033 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:23,480 that can reliably hit from outside and use that to open up 1034 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,880 opportunities in the post, I do think that they've got a really 1035 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,360 good shot at at keeping the series close. 1036 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,720 But it's going to require obviously them to play defense 1037 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:34,120 as well. And I guess the one thing that I 1038 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,880 don't know and the thing that sometimes gets lost in all the 1039 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,680 conversation about how good the Thunder are defensively is this 1040 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,040 was a team that averaged over, you know, since the All Star 1041 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,760 break, 125 points per game, which was tops in the league by 1042 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,800 a pretty significant margin, you know, but was able to pair it 1043 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,400 with good defense to match. And so the Pacers have got to 1044 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,120 have probably their best defensive effort of this entire 1045 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,200 play offs or the Thunder are going to have to like self 1046 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,760 destruct to some degree, which is essentially what happened to 1047 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,160 the Cavs where they, as you were mentioning Scott, got too 1048 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,400 focused on the ball dominance and put themselves in a position 1049 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,240 where nobody else could contribute effectively. 1050 00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:16,040 I don't know. And, and this is the big 1051 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,640 unknown, like, as much as the Pacers are clearly the underdogs 1052 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,960 statistically, do the Thunder at some point look up and say, holy 1053 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,480 shit, we're in the NBA Finals. Does that end up hurting them? 1054 00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:30,160 I mean, the Pacers might do the same thing and the Pacers might 1055 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,840 get them in. So, So I think it's something 1056 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,200 that both teams have to wrestle with. 1057 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,560 The one difference is the Pacers got to the Eastern Conference 1058 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,440 finals last year. They get stopped there. 1059 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,080 They've had, you know, now 2 full playoff series in a row 1060 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,200 with the same unit where they're essentially relying on the same 1061 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,760 guys to do the same sorts of things. 1062 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,840 Does that give them a mental advantage in this? 1063 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,960 Because oftentimes we will see players suddenly hit a wall when 1064 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,000 you get to this point, not just because of the minutes that 1065 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,240 they've played, but also because of the moment that they're 1066 00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:01,120 playing in. I I love this because, you know, 1067 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,360 we're going to look back in three weeks and we can kind of 1068 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,840 tell the narrative either way. Because on one hand, if the 1069 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,480 Thunder win, they blitz the Pacers, it's going to be like, 1070 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,200 yeah, man, that was the best team. 1071 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,440 Like that's a really good team. They might be, you know, 1072 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,480 starting a dynasty like May and it's going to suck. 1073 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,040 It's like, damn it, the Pacers make the finals twice. 1074 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,440 Like we, we immediately play the the Lakers in the middle of the 1075 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,120 Kobe Shaq, you know, starting of that. 1076 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:23,720 And then we play the Thunder starting here. 1077 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,600 But the other thing that I could see and, you know, if this 1078 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,880 starts to happen is, you know, coaching and experience matters. 1079 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,040 And that's always brought up too. 1080 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,000 You know, you have Rick Carlisle has all this experience and he's 1081 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:39,840 been in like, it's wild how much this mirrors the Mavs run that 1082 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,400 he had in 2011, even to the point that I was concerned about 1083 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,680 the nine days off between the Cavs and the Knicks series. 1084 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,760 They had nine days off between their Western Conference 1085 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,280 semifinal W like exactly the same. 1086 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,400 So Carlisle's been in almost these exact same spots. 1087 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,440 That has to matter. And then, you know, Siakam has 1088 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,240 won a title, not just as a, you know, as a key part of that 1089 00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:02,680 Raptors team. He's been there. 1090 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,400 He talked about it a little bit in the post game of, you know, 1091 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,160 how he's using that experience. None of the Thunder guys have 1092 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,800 been here. And and I do think this is kind 1093 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,120 of a dumb thing. It's like you got to win some 1094 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,520 games, but I if the Pacers get blitzed and blitzed in game one 1095 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,080 and two, it's like, damn it, that's going to suck. 1096 00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:18,640 I look at this like they they've got to keep it close. 1097 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,360 You be there like, let that experience matter. 1098 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,920 Because I do think you'll get to some points for Carlisle if he 1099 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,120 can make those adjustments. If Siakam can use that 1100 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,800 experience, I think you could be at a point where, you know, the 1101 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,320 Pacers can steal one in the first two in Oklahoma City. 1102 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,640 They come back home, they win. It's like suddenly the Thunder 1103 00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,080 can be like, holy shit, we're down to 1. 1104 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,960 Like and then we're trying to make weird adjustments. 1105 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,880 They're doing their version of Shamit or something and maybe 1106 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,520 Carlisle can outmaneuver him. But you you can't do that if you 1107 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,000 get blitzed in the first two games. 1108 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,960 No, I mean you, you mentioned the coaching, you know 1109 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,840 difference here. I mean Daniel is is or Daniel 1110 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,480 Alter, however you pronounce his last name, is a very good coach. 1111 00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:58,520 But this is his it's only his third playoff series as a head 1112 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,800 coach. They lost in the first round in 1113 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,480 his first season, and then last year they lose in the conference 1114 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,880 semifinals despite having won 57 games to the Mavs. 1115 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,000 Now, that was a different type of team they were playing. 1116 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,360 That was a team that had Luka Doncic and had Kyrie Irving. 1117 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,240 You know, that was a team that you you could understand how 1118 00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:21,280 they lost that they get that experience. 1119 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,560 I'm curious, though, how the management of this team 1120 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,120 continues. They won 11 more games in the 1121 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,800 regular season. If they win the four games in 1122 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,360 this like they're they're up there amongst literally the all 1123 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,760 time great teams, are they actually that good? 1124 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,800 That's what I'm very curious about. 1125 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,640 And it may turn out that they are, but I think you you bring 1126 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,240 up a great point in that coaching experience does matter 1127 00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:50,440 in these particular cases, especially when you are a team 1128 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,960 that has a large roster of players that you can call on a 1129 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,480 night by night basis. And we saw that in the next 1130 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,040 series. Like really the the levers that 1131 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,360 Carlisle was pulling made a big difference in terms of the way 1132 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,320 the Pacers were able to handle the different challenges in that 1133 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,800 series. I think it's foolish to just 1134 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,280 assume based upon how the regular seasons for both teams 1135 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:16,160 ended up, that you would automatically just seed all of 1136 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,760 the advantages to the Thunder when you've got all of these 1137 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,640 other items in the mix that you need to consider. 1138 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,760 Well, just one more quick thing that I want to get to Tony again 1139 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,800 is just you know, you look at who the Thunder lost to last 1140 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,640 year, the Maz with Luca who they really struggled with this year 1141 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,920 going 7 is the Nuggets with Jokic. 1142 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,000 You know, the, the similarities between Jokic and Doncic are 1143 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,600 they are both guys who see the floor and have great passing. 1144 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,040 We have Halliburton and like, and it's, I'm not saying that 1145 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,400 he's up there in that level, like versus A-Team, like, you 1146 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,800 know, the, the Cavs where you have a ball dominant guy like I, 1147 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,240 I do look at this. It's like that is what the 1148 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:52,880 Thunder seem to struggle with is a player who can get to the 1149 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,920 middle and then break down a defense with passing and vision. 1150 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,160 And that's what Halliburton does. 1151 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,080 Yeah. And I I think the Pacers have 1152 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:04,640 found something defensively as well to Yeah, I mean, if you 1153 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,320 look at ball dominance, I mean, they've gone against Giannis, 1154 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:13,040 Donovan Mitchell and Jaylen Bronson in three successive 1155 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,680 series. Shay's going to dominate the 1156 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:19,240 ball in similar fashion where the Pacers have have essentially 1157 00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:21,040 they're they're not going to see anything that they're not used 1158 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,440 to. I think I think they're going to 1159 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,560 have ways to guard that corral him when you know, whether you 1160 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,560 double him or whatever the case may be, or, or maybe you let him 1161 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,840 get his like they kind of did Giannis and make sure everybody 1162 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,160 else is shut down on the perimeter. 1163 00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:35,840 So to me, I think the Pacers have an advantage because I 1164 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,520 think the Thunder haven't played in offense like the Pacers have 1165 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,520 played, where I do think the Pacers have played an offense 1166 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,520 like the Thunder have in terms of ball dominance and and trying 1167 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,200 to corral a guy like, you know, similar to like a Luka Doncic or 1168 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:55,240 whatever the case may be. So I am intrigued by by that 1169 00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,200 standpoint of it too. Again, looking through a Pacers 1170 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,160 lens and some advantages I think they might have. 1171 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,760 That one is interesting to me. Let's play the Galen's been a 1172 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,840 part of this, thankfully in a very positive way in football, 1173 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,440 Tony, you get to join us for this a little Scott fever dream 1174 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,640 to wrap things up. If the Pacers win, they win four 1175 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,600 games, they win the series. I I've been Galen and I've been 1176 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,880 kind of kicking this around like what's what's at stake? 1177 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,520 I mean, obviously a championship is there. 1178 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,240 I look at it as as like, are we talking about Halliburton is the 1179 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,680 best pacer ever over Miller? You know, I, I look at like 1180 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,480 Miles Turner suddenly becomes a guy who like, well, that's a guy 1181 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,160 whose number gets retired. You know, does the Simons just 1182 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,400 sell the team like, hey, we're, we're going to cash in? 1183 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,280 You're off to Seattle. I'm I'm curious, you know, 1184 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,960 obviously outside of like a title, it does feel like there's 1185 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,640 a lot at stake here, which is so dumb to say because you're in 1186 00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,120 the Finals, but just fever dream for a second the Pacers win. 1187 00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,840 What are some answers, awesome benefits of that outside of 1188 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,360 obviously winning that title? Galen, I'll start with you. 1189 00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,560 I mean, look, if you there, there's a couple of things I 1190 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,760 think worth noting right now about where the Pacers are. 1191 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:12,960 Like they during the Reggie Miller era, they became the most 1192 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,480 popular team in the state of Indiana. 1193 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,720 I think you can make the argument because I mean, IU, you 1194 00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:22,360 know, IU basketball had receded. Purdue was at their apex and 1195 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,440 even at their apex they weren't that popular. 1196 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,360 The Colts were still kind of mired in that, you know, nine 1197 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,640 win, you know, 10 win, 8 win phase. 1198 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:32,680 Playoffs, right? Yeah. 1199 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,720 That was what, 2001, I think then, then, then, you know, you 1200 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,680 think about what happened in that following decade. 1201 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,880 The Malice in the Palace happens, the whole Jamal Tinsley 1202 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,160 era happens, and then the Colts get amazingly good. 1203 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:47,720 Manny happens, yeah. Yeah, right. 1204 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,920 And and so the Pacers continue to recede and they have this 1205 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,040 long stretch of yeah, I mean they they do come back a little 1206 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,440 bit in the early twenty 10s with the Paul George Roy Hibbert 1207 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,440 thing. But even that ends in a really 1208 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,000 awkward way where I people have fond memories of those teams. 1209 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,520 But I think that that group is almost looked upon is like, 1210 00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,280 well, how much should we have gotten excited about that in 1211 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:17,920 retrospect? For the Pacers now to be playing 1212 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,440 this style, to have this type of a team, to have a team that 1213 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,880 seems to be connecting at a level that I haven't seen in 25 1214 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,280 years with the fans, you know, just getting to the Finals, 1215 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:34,120 frankly, this is as high as this franchise has ever gotten in the 1216 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,640 NBA era. I and I know they won three ABA 1217 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,280 titles. We need to really stop talking 1218 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,640 about those. No, no disrespect to Slick 1219 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,040 Leonard and no disrespect to Rodger Brown and and Mel 1220 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,920 Daniels. It it's just like none of the 1221 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,040 people on this podcast were even alive when those people were 1222 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:53,200 playing, let alone the younger fans who desperately need 1223 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,080 something to connect with. So I think they've already 1224 00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:59,480 gotten a lot of the ancillary benefits of not just this year, 1225 00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,560 but last year's run. And the fact that they look set 1226 01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,080 up to be able to sustain this for a couple years is great. 1227 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:11,640 But to win a title against such a dominant team in Oklahoma City 1228 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:16,320 would be not just obviously the high watermark for the entire 1229 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,640 history of the Pacers franchise. I think you could make an 1230 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:24,440 argument that it would be the most unexpected and underdog 1231 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,960 story, so to speak, in the NBA since what, the Pistons beating 1232 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,840 the Lakers in 2004. You know, it's you know, it's 1233 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,760 one of those like off the wall, like, you know, the last time a 1234 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,720 four seed won the title. I believe in in the NBA. 1235 01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,920 And the last time a team that I think was this big of A and. 1236 01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,880 The. Last time a team that was this 1237 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,480 much of an underdog betting wise at the beginning of the playoffs 1238 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,040 won the title was the 95 Rockets, who have a huge 1239 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,960 asterisk next to them since they were the defending champs and 1240 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,240 had Akima Lajwan. You know, I mean like that. 1241 01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,160 That really doesn't count as, as far as what you're talking about 1242 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,440 here. It would be 1 of it's kind of 1243 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,160 like when you look back at NBA history and you're like, how the 1244 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,800 hell did the Bullets win a a title in 78? 1245 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,280 Or how did the Trail Blazers in 77 or 79? 1246 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,400 Like that, that, that three-year stretch was such a weird time in 1247 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,200 NBA history. And a lot of it was expansion 1248 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,600 and, or, you know, adding the ABA teams. 1249 01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,320 I mean, there were a lot of reasons for it, but it was 1250 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,440 almost the IT was a cycle change in the NBA. 1251 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,400 And I think the Pacers have an opportunity to do something 1252 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,280 really remarkable. It'd be a, you know, the rarity 1253 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,840 of a small market team without a dominant star. 1254 01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,560 Like any of those things are unusual to combine them all and 1255 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,440 to be able to win and to do so with this type of a playoff run. 1256 01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,840 This is the kind of thing you bank off a franchise for the for 1257 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,000 the next 10 years. And so if they if they lose in 1258 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,480 the in the finals, it really no one's expecting them to win 1259 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,600 outside of Pacers fans, literally nobody. 1260 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,720 If you if you guys find someone that's picking the Pacers to win 1261 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,680 in this series, please let us know. 1262 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,200 I have yet to see a single person who's even picked the 1263 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,880 Thunder in Six, but I think. Stephen A Smith is still picking 1264 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,040 the Knicks, by the way. Right. 1265 01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,280 But I think that all of those things combined, you know, I, I, 1266 01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,120 I think we have to leave the player stuff aside. 1267 01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:29,080 It's the one weird aspect of having such a young team is that 1268 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,960 we don't know how Halliburton's career is going to go. 1269 01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,400 You know, he's not, he's not in the, you know, the, if you look 1270 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,240 at win shares, like there's nobody from this team except for 1271 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,800 Miles Turner, that's in the top 12 of win shares in Pacers 1272 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,200 history. You know, So I, I think all of 1273 01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,400 that stuff personnel wise has to be delayed. 1274 01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,440 But from a franchise perspective, it's amazing. 1275 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,160 The Pacers have puts themselves in a position where they almost 1276 01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,440 have nothing to lose in this Finals 'cause even if they don't 1277 01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,360 win it, they're really well set up to, to be able to get back 1278 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,720 again. And I think that that's a really 1279 01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,240 special place for this franchise to be and not anything I would 1280 01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:07,680 have predicted four or five years ago. 1281 01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:15,960 Yeah, for me, I think about like Indiana sports lore and and 1282 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:21,280 where it would stack up and because of the improbability of 1283 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:27,040 this run, like the Colts in O 6, I think you expected them to to 1284 01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,560 win a championship at at some point while he was great. 1285 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,320 You know, you had one of the best players in the game. 1286 01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:37,360 You were on the precipice of it several years running Indiana 1287 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,960 basketball in that window, especially from 76 to to 87. 1288 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:47,720 You expected them to win. So I, I then, you know, Purdue, 1289 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:56,440 well, they'd never won one so little jab, you know, So you 1290 01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,000 look at, and then Notre Dame football, not everybody's a fan 1291 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,520 of Notre Dame football. So I look at like the grand 1292 01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,480 scheme, like you've got some Cincinnati Bengals fans in 1293 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,680 Indiana. You've got, you know, so from 1294 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,760 the grand scheme of like the connectedness of the state and 1295 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,560 the improbability of this run, like I don't know if there's 1296 01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,520 more people behind this then there there there has been, I 1297 01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:20,360 guess is kind of the way I'm thinking about it. 1298 01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,320 Obviously the Colts just because the NFL is a bigger brand or 1299 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,720 whatever, But I'm just thinking about like me as a sports fan, 1300 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,400 the improbability I think of like, you know, the Butler runs 1301 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:35,480 were were improbable. I used 2002 run was similar to 1302 01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,120 this. You know, my estimation, like 1303 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,760 pretty good team, but didn't really expect him to to make 1304 01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,080 that run. So I'm just kind of thinking 1305 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,280 about it in that regard of like, where was this? 1306 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,080 Where would this stack up for me? 1307 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,360 Like, let's say the Pacers win the championship. 1308 01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,920 I've thought about that. Like how does that stack up to 1309 01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,360 all of the other kind of fun fan experiences that I've had of my 1310 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:02,240 favorite teams? And I don't really know yet if 1311 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,320 it would top the Cubs winning for me. 1312 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,840 That was a huge, huge thing for me that I didn't really ever 1313 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,920 expect to happen just because of that. 1314 01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:15,240 But man, I'll, I'll be damned if it's not going to be close. 1315 01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,800 It's it's pretty incredible this run. 1316 01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,080 The thing with the, the and you know, we have the, the, the 1317 01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,280 beauty of hindsight here with the Reggie Miller era, you know, 1318 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,440 all of those runs were awesome. Like the eight points in nine 1319 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,000 seconds, Like they've almost become these own little capsules 1320 01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,760 of like that was cool. But it's not really amounting to 1321 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,200 anything because a lot of those series we lost, we went on to 1322 01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,800 lose the next round. Or I mean, there were, you know, 1323 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,000 there were no titles. It it any of those mid 90s. 1324 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,160 I mean, like the finals team was kind of near the end of Reggie's 1325 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,160 era. It was more a Jermaine O'Neal 1326 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,000 team. Like all of those Reggie heroics 1327 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,320 were in series and seasons that didn't amount to the going to 1328 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,160 the finals. And and so that I look at that 1329 01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,120 as something interesting here that, you know, this could 1330 01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,120 really break that paradigm. And it's suddenly it's like 1331 01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,320 those Halliburton moments of, you know, the comebacks and the 1332 01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,880 threes and the choke sign. It's like that all LED up to a 1333 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,040 title is just something so different and unique. 1334 01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,600 And you know, Galen, you're you're kind of blowing my mind 1335 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,280 in a good way, like just how big this could be for the state. 1336 01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,280 But I, I think you're right. It, it could really reset a lot 1337 01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,440 of things because the Colts are kind of floundering. 1338 01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,080 And if the Pacers win a title, you look at this and it's like, 1339 01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,720 well, shit, they could win too. I mean, you look at houses and 1340 01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:28,880 stuff and, and I'll just say, you know, you, you, you talked. 1341 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,680 About not one. Yeah, not 2. 1342 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,640 You know, the, the thing with the Paul George era, you're 1343 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,440 right. Because it, you know, on one 1344 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,160 hand, Hibbert just like stopped being a functional basketball 1345 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,160 player like that. It was just like, oh, we don't 1346 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,560 play Hibbert anymore. But with Paul George, you always 1347 01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,200 know, like the guys from LA probably wants to go back there. 1348 01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:50,480 But like you have something unique here is you have a player 1349 01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,720 in Halliburton who's from Wisconsin. 1350 01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,520 Like he went to Iowa State. Like this is like he, I, I mean, 1351 01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,280 who knows. And he'll probably end up going 1352 01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,560 to Miami at some point, like 3 years because everyone does. 1353 01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:02,560 You stop it, you stop it. The feeling that it's like this 1354 01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,240 team wants to be here and they all. 1355 01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,480 I don't want to be here. And anyway, sorry, go ahead. 1356 01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,760 No, no, I, I just, I don't think the intrinsic likability of the 1357 01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,120 that 12 to 14 run with the Pacers was not entirely there. 1358 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,840 It was still a team that people liked in the moment. 1359 01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:22,400 But I mean, who's got among Pacers fans, you could make a 1360 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,440 legitimate argument. The guy with the highest Q 1361 01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,120 rating on those teams was Danny Granger still like I mean, does 1362 01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:29,880 anybody think fondly of Paul George? 1363 01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,600 Does anybody think fondly of Roy Hibbert? 1364 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,600 Does anybody think I mean it's like the high curating is Lance 1365 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,800 Stephenson like that's the guy from that era. 1366 01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:41,640 But even that it's maybe you're right, but he but in terms of 1367 01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,560 like the. Which that kind of speaks for 1368 01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:44,280 itself, right? And. 1369 01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,160 I'm trying to make it's like that's that's the problem. 1370 01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,960 If Lance is your most beloved and you're blowing in Lebrons 1371 01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:52,680 ear like that's the high watermark of that. 1372 01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,120 The the the the the roar he got in game 4 when they introduced 1373 01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,760 him courtside was second only to Reggie Miller. 1374 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,720 But and, but again, right, but I'm talking about the former 1375 01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,680 Pacers. But that team, for a variety of 1376 01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:14,400 reasons, never fully connected, I would argue with the fan base 1377 01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:18,200 in a lasting way like the 90s teams did. 1378 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,000 And, and this team has all of those ingredients 'cause there's 1379 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,800 really not an unlikable guy on the entire roster. 1380 01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,359 You know, the and Halliburton, while he's unlikable to other 1381 01:08:28,359 --> 01:08:33,279 fan bases for a variety of reasons, that's endeared him in 1382 01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:36,840 a way that few players have been endeared to the Indiana Pacers 1383 01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,479 fan base over the course of time. 1384 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:39,840 And I do think that that matters. 1385 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:44,560 And when you think about like what makes a team, what makes a 1386 01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,840 group of players stick with a fan base and become part of the 1387 01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,000 culture and part of the lore, I think what we're seeing here is 1388 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:56,080 a possibility of not just a star being born, but kind of like a 1389 01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,319 franchise legend being born. The fact that this is all 1390 01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:02,359 happening within a few years of of him getting on the roster and 1391 01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:06,160 and this roster being assembled, you know, there's still stuff to 1392 01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,640 do, but it to demonstrate you can win like this. 1393 01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,120 And even just with A50 win team, which is, you know, that's there 1394 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,439 have been several 50 win teams in Pacers history. 1395 01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,600 There have only been two that have made it to the finals. 1396 01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,560 And that's that is I think really fascinating to think 1397 01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:24,000 about in terms of like a full healthy season with this team 1398 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,080 maybe puts them in a completely different perspective in the 1399 01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,640 playoffs and they've got the road ahead of them. 1400 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:32,439 But it kind of starts here. And whether that is they lose to 1401 01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,560 a a Thunder team that's just more efficient than they are or 1402 01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,720 whether they upset a Thunder team that everybody is already 1403 01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,960 assuming going to win the final. Yeah. 1404 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,800 Three. You know that there's a lot to 1405 01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,399 like about all of that. And I'm just really curious to 1406 01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:51,399 see how it unfolds. I don't think there's a good 1407 01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,560 there's no way of knowing. You know, I was talking to 1408 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,800 somebody the other day and it's like, I've been, you know, I'm 1409 01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,680 I'm, I was born in in the late 70s as as you were, Scott. 1410 01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:07,280 And in my entire lifetime, the number of Indianapolis 1411 01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:12,480 professional championship appearances just now got to 1412 01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,000 four. We've had two Colt Super Bowls 1413 01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:18,480 and now we've had a second Pacers Finals appearance. 1414 01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:23,000 These things are rare. They do stick around, you know, 1415 01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,080 and unlike the Colts in O nine, who I think people to some 1416 01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:30,200 degree, that's that's one we've almost kind of lesser lessened 1417 01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,480 out in our minds because they were expected to win. 1418 01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,320 The O61 is probably always going to be the most beloved of those 1419 01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,840 because of how relatively unexpected it was. 1420 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,080 And that's the one like they had Peyton Manning obviously on that 1421 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:46,080 roster, but that was not a team going into the playoffs that 1422 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,440 most people gave a shot to win the Super Bowl. 1423 01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:53,280 And they had to upset the, you know, the the Patriots to get 1424 01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,040 there. There was a lot that went on. 1425 01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,720 They'd upset the Ravens on the road in that sequence. 1426 01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,120 There's there's a little bit of connective tissue there 'cause 1427 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,080 that team had to do it despite not being a perfect team, 1428 01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,160 despite being a team that had a relatively flawed defense for 1429 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,720 most of the season. And keep in mind, like until Bob 1430 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,120 Sandler came back and they signed Booger McFarland, that 1431 01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,200 team was not whole and they got whole in that second-half of the 1432 01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,280 year. If you're looking for an analog 1433 01:11:17,480 --> 01:11:20,360 and something that could add some more historical gravitas, 1434 01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:21,600 that's where I would connect it to. 1435 01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:26,240 I also think as a kid of the 70s and 80s, you know, growing up, 1436 01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:27,760 Indiana was the basketball state. 1437 01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,920 It was just all about basketball and not a bad way, but just 1438 01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,400 because of the, the things you mentioned with the Pacers, IU 1439 01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,520 basketball and and with Peyton Manning, it became more of a 1440 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,160 football state. And I would tell people like 1441 01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,080 growing up, the Colts were just like 4th on the list. 1442 01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,880 It's the way it was. Not that one's better or worse, 1443 01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,120 but it would be kind of cool to see, you know, if the Pacers win 1444 01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:48,720 the title and then you have Caitlin Clark in the exact same 1445 01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,040 arena with a ton of interest on the Fever. 1446 01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:54,920 You know, I I could see a world where they they recenter where, 1447 01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:56,960 you know, where the sports landscape is. 1448 01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:00,240 And oddly, it would be IU football kind of holding the 1449 01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,240 banner for for football in the state of Indiana, which is like 1450 01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:04,360 what? That was my point. 1451 01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,880 What are we living in? IU Football Playoff and Pacers 1452 01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:12,840 NBA Finals in the same year is yeah, absolutely insane. 1453 01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:15,200 We're back. We're back, baby. 1454 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:16,360 We're. Back. 1455 01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,880 No, no better. Place to end on that Tony, as 1456 01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:21,800 always man, thank you so much for joining Galen. 1457 01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,880 Always fun talking to you and we're ending with that. 1458 01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,960 We are back play the music and and the Bison's back like it's 1459 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:29,560 all back. It's all happening. 1460 01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,240 We are living in a simulation. So let's finish the simulation 1461 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:36,120 with A7 game win a six game win over the Thunder. 1462 01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,360 Let's win it at home and then have A and have a parade. 1463 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,240 Pacers and six Pacers. And six. 1464 01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:44,520 All right. Thank you guys for joining us. 1465 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,400 We appreciate you as always. Until next time, this is Scott 1466 01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:48,920 for Crimson cast signing off.