1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,200 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:23,480 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 3 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,920 GAIL and Claudia Scott Caulfield joining you. 4 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:33,360 It's the 25th of February, a month that cannot end soon 5 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,760 enough for Indiana basketball. Be our favorite time of the 6 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,000 year, right? Remember, this is our favorite 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,960 sports section. It's It's not anymore. 8 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,240 It is. It still should. 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,440 It's real bad, man. Now Indiana. 10 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,680 One in five so far in the month of February, and still with one 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,560 game left to play it. It feels Groundhog Day is in 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,680 February, Scott, and that is what this has felt like pretty 13 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,519 consistently for many years now with IU. 14 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,680 So let's look on the. Positive side I think that most 15 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,720 fans probably know what all of the gifts of a dumpster on fire 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,840 and or bust with wheels falling off like look like right now. 17 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,280 So we've kind of it's like we've all we all know all of them like 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:20,080 that. That's a positive. 19 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,000 It's like hey, I know all of the gifts of 1 subcategory. 20 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,120 Yeah, no, it's there's I'm actually a little disappointed 21 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,600 in the gift makers that we've been stuck with the same 22 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,120 dumpster fire gifts for years and you know, we didn't have to 23 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,600 stop making gifts in 2014, Scott. 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,920 Like, you know, the the the people need to get in there and 25 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,800 and continue to create new representations of despair just 26 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,000 to help us visually through the moment. 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,680 So if you. New ways to say it like you know 28 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,520 wheels falling off the like the wheels are off the bus. 29 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,520 Let's come up with some new things like let's we can work on 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,320 that we can make this a positive we can become. 31 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,520 Hey, there could be a back home network GIF maker business we're 32 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,560 into. We're really scraping the bottom 33 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,840 of the business barrel if we're going for gift maker, but. 34 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,520 I'm gonna, I wouldn't go to Kelly's School of Business with 35 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,040 this business. Plan, I'm gonna say. 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,520 Wow, that'll make hundreds of dollars. 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,360 That's great. Off people. 38 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,720 Yes, this is definitely the people you want to go. 39 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:23,440 After anyway, we are brought to you by Home field apparel. 40 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,160 Your place to go for the finest in college fashions and racing 41 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,640 fashions, the softest fabrics, all kinds of tremendous stuff 42 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,680 coming at you from the home field apparel line. 43 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,560 They've been releasing some of their their NASCAR and and 44 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,480 racing related stuff. They've got Indy 500 and little 45 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,240 500 collections coming out soon. They've also got, of course, 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,200 pretty much every college and university under the sun that 47 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,320 plays competitive sports. That's a little bit of an 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,840 exaggeration, but not by much as as they've got hundreds of 49 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,360 options to choose from and really wow, thousands of options 50 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,000 if you count all the different types of apparel, T-shirts, 51 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,520 hoodies, crew necks, hats, long sleeve. 52 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,840 I mean just just everything. So go over to home field, 53 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:15,400 apparel.com, use the code home 23, get 15% off your first order 54 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,440 and be sure to sign up for their newsletter. 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,920 Be sure to follow them on social. 56 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:22,640 They've always got something new. 57 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:28,040 Brewing home field labs, just just mixing the beakers, turning 58 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,920 on the Bunsen burner and making things happen. 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,480 homefieldapparel.com Go check them out. 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,200 Also, just a reminder, we're on sub stack. 61 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,000 You can subscribe for free. crimsoncast.substack.com get 62 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,880 podcast delivered right to your e-mail as well as extras. 63 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,800 I did AVIP video the other day trying to break down what went 64 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,760 on with that ruling, saying that the NCAA can't enforce their nil 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,440 rules anymore. It was very good. 66 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,880 It I was hanging out with some, hanging out with some friends 67 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 last night and we talked about this and I felt like I came in 68 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,920 with information and like I was leading like it it was a good 69 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,880 precursor to hanging out and having discussions. 70 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,960 So thank you. No, it was some good stuff. 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:07,840 I thought you were going to say like, yeah, you know, I had some 72 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,080 friends over and we we threw Galen's VIP video on and you 73 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,120 know, we roasted some marshmallows while we watched. 74 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,120 It that's actually I I'm like. It's premium content that would 75 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,519 be giving it away to people who that's a good. 76 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,600 Point you, you, you're like, well, guys. 77 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,480 Arrest me for infringement. We're going to sit here and 78 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,840 watch this, but I have to collect $5 from each of you 79 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:28,640 this. Is actually not a podcast, it's 80 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,120 an injunction. So no, it's actually. 81 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,400 It's not a podcast. It's it's like it's like one of 82 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,920 those Tupperware parties, you know, where where you invite 83 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,720 your friends over and you sell them things. 84 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,680 I think that's that's how that's really how now we're here to. 85 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,040 Hang out. Can we stop talking about the 86 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,440 NCLA injunction? And this is premium video. 87 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,680 This is back home network, multi level marketing. 88 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,800 This is this is the MLM branch of the back home network. 89 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,880 I'm excited for it. Talking to invest in your meme 90 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:57,680 company. We're done, man. 91 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,440 We want to hang. Out. 92 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,600 Come on, man. See this cannot fail. 93 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,240 Yes, it's, it's, it's podcast. Yeah, never mind. 94 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,600 Yeah, podcasting, Amway, I guess. 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,320 Something like that. So anyway, right. 96 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,320 Yeah that that was thus concludes the fun part of the 97 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,200 show. So yes, let's talk let's talk 98 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:24,040 about you the the men's team. Gosh they're just not good. 99 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,480 They lose to Penn State yesterday 83 to 74 in what 100 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,320 really was a game that it you know it. 101 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Honestly, it's funny like you look at the score 8374 and then 102 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,400 you realize as you dive into it, as you go back and and watch 103 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:49,120 that the entire game was decided in about a 5 minute stretch from 104 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,960 the the basically last three minutes of the first half 105 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,360 through the 1st minute and a half ish of the second-half. 106 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,480 When Penn State went on an 11 to one run and you look at that and 107 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,040 you look at the final score, it was 8374 and it's like, gosh, 108 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,440 Indiana played them even except for that 11 to one run, which 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,880 unfortunately Scott, I checked with the NCAA this morning, that 110 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,520 period still counts. Like we can't give them credit 111 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,080 for the other 35 minutes because those 5 minutes did actually 112 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,640 matter. It's it feels very similar to 113 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,040 what we've seen in many of the other games that we've watched 114 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,560 Indiana watch in this recent stretch. 115 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,680 You know it it it had a similar sort of thing that we think 116 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,280 about the Nebraska game where Indiana had a 20 to three run of 117 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:41,440 its own bookended by 11 O and 14 to one runs on the part of 118 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,200 Nebraska, which largely led to what the final outcome ended up 119 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,880 being score wise. You know when Indiana has been 120 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,440 faced with superior competition talent wise, like Purdue, 121 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,480 they've tended to be down most of the game. 122 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,680 But when they play these teams that they should be more or less 123 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,920 in touch with from a talent perspective or or from an 124 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,360 ability perspective, the Northwestern's, the Nebraska's, 125 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:11,280 the Penn State's, they they consistently had bad moments 126 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,400 that have stretched over 5 to 10 minutes that have been the 127 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,640 deciding factor. And I talked about this with 128 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,040 Tony in the podcast I did with him towards the tail end of last 129 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,440 week. It's just Groundhog Day. 130 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,720 To use something from earlier on in the show over and over for 131 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,200 this IU team, they just cannot play a full 40 minute basketball 132 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:31,480 game. We've heard Mike Woodson talk 133 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:32,600 about that. He's not wrong. 134 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,880 He hasn't gotten a full 40 minutes out of the team. 135 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,240 Where he is wrong is, or at least where it's really 136 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,840 troubling, is that he does not seem to have any clue how to fix 137 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,280 it. And thus Indiana is 6 and 10 and 138 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,800 14 and 13 overall. Sorry, bad time to cough. 139 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,480 That's fine. You know, I I listened to the 140 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,000 podcast you did with Tony, you know, when I was thinking about, 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,760 'cause you were talking about, you know, everything you were 142 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,800 just talking about. But I was thinking about those 143 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,960 two wins, you know, Iowa and Ohio State. 144 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,960 And to me it's like I I think about, it's less than like they 145 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,320 they had a bunch of heart and they really tried. 146 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,760 It's just more in like Iowa you had Gabe Cups hit a three that 147 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,800 just as he doesn't normally hit. And like at Ohio State, you 148 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,680 know, Anthony Leal hit a three and it it really, it's like, you 149 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,480 know, unfortunately the rest of these games, it's not that guys, 150 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,960 I don't say, I don't say can't hit threes, but they're not 151 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,280 hitting threes. It's like just too often the 152 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:31,800 energy always seems about the same. 153 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,799 It's just a lot of these plays aren't being made and you're 154 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,159 getting the ball kind of the right positions you're getting 155 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:39,760 renew the ball, you're getting, you know, shooters open threes. 156 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,640 They're either not taking them, they're not making them, they're 157 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,240 dribbling into worst shots or they're not making plays. 158 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,560 And I think that's, that's the really troubling part is when 159 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,400 you look back at the only two wins, it's like, all right, you 160 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,480 know, we're basically 2, two shots away that we don't 161 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,520 normally make from having not won since January 12th. 162 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,440 And it it looks like it's the same, the same process. 163 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,880 It's the same effort. It it's really kind of the same. 164 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,080 And and yeah, I mean you get these moments where you know, 165 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:09,560 Penn State just kind of grinds it out. 166 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:12,120 They get up by 8:00. They go on that 11 to one run 167 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,400 like you mentioned. And then I think most IU fans 168 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,120 and unfortunately it feels like it's seeped into the team. 169 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:22,320 Everybody at that moment when it's, you know, 43 to 33, Penn 170 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,560 State's up in the second-half. I don't think there's any 171 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,440 rational IU fan who would do a live bet on like FanDuel and be 172 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,040 like, I'm going to bet Indiana to win. 173 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,000 Like it's just you're kind of like, all right, well, that's, 174 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,200 that's it. Like this is not a team that 175 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,800 normal. I'd be shocked if they came 176 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,440 back. They don't. 177 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:42,040 And it feels like that that feeling has kind of permeated 178 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,360 the team. But like I said I don't think 179 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,280 it's because of an ever thing and think it's just because guys 180 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,920 aren't able or they're not in positions to to make the plays 181 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,720 that need to be made to win the games. 182 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:56,760 It's both but it's not the same but it So what I mean by that is 183 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,600 there are effort issues there are also but but well no this is 184 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,640 important I think because this is this is something that I 185 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,920 think a lot of times when not we but the Royal we as as as 186 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,000 observers or fans discuss IU. Everybody wants to distill it 187 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,200 down to well the team's not playing hard or or the system 188 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,080 sucks and what I keep trying to get across is some guys are 189 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:23,400 playing hard but not smart. Some guys are playing you know 190 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,360 in a way that looks unnatural to them. 191 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,880 Some guys are not playing hard at least not all the time you 192 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,400 know. So this is where you cannot 193 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,560 fault Trey Galloway for how hard he plays. 194 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,960 Like he he clearly is sacrificing his body and is 195 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,000 going, you know, like OverDrive, trying to make things happen. 196 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,280 But that's a problem in and of itself because it's creating 197 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,200 turnovers, it's creating bad offensive possessions. 198 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,640 And again, it's like that's not an effort thing, but it's a why 199 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,960 is the scheme set up in such a way that one guy has to try to 200 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,000 make everything happen? You know, there's there's so 201 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,080 many possessions where it's one person doing something and four 202 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,360 people watching. It's it's very similar to like 203 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,200 complaints people have in the worst moments of the Mike Davis 204 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,840 era. So, you know, 20 years ago. 205 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,080 So yeah, it's it's tough. And I think you know with the 206 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,200 game, with it, with opponents that Indiana's been losing to 207 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,720 lately, the Penn State's, the Nebraska's, the Northwestern's 208 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,720 primarily and even the wins. You know, Iowa and Ohio State. 209 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,320 Iowa's played OK down the stretch, but I wouldn't call 210 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,480 them a great team. What's frustrating is that it 211 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,000 just feels like if Indiana could keep an even keel, if there was 212 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,000 some kind of of centralizing force that that didn't lead to 213 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,680 this cavalcade of mistakes that seem to happen, you feel like 214 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:48,560 Indiana would be in a position where they could have won a 215 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:52,520 couple more of these games. But just there'll be dumb things 216 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,520 that happen. I mean twice in the closing 2 217 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,040 minutes of the game yesterday when the game was a little bit 218 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,680 in the bath, the second one, not as much, but certainly the first 219 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:04,680 one, Indiana fouled 3 point shooters in the active shooting 220 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,600 and and it's just like you know, for that to happen multiple 221 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,360 times for the free throws to be as bad as they are in conference 222 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,800 play. Scott, did you realize that in 223 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,480 the Big 10, the the 2nd? Word. 224 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,760 The answer's already no, but. The The second worst free throw 225 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,840 shooting team in the Big 10 is Minnesota. 226 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,920 They're shooting 67.5% in conference play from the charity 227 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:35,680 stripe, Indiana's 14th. They are shooting 5% worse than 228 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:40,120 Minnesota in conference play from the charity stripe 62.5%. 229 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,160 I mean that's that's that's sizable like that is that is a 230 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,880 standard deviation if not two off of things. 231 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,600 It's stuff like that that you look at this Indiana team and 232 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,720 it's like so many of the core issues look like they might be 233 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,400 not that big of a deal if they weren't so consistently bad at 234 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,320 them. And some of it seems to be just 235 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,720 mentality and concentration and effort more than anything else. 236 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,560 And so the this Penn State game was I think a a pretty 237 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,880 interesting example of all of that because again, it really to 238 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,720 me came back to the defensive effort or lack thereof. 239 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,960 Indiana scored one point O six points per possession, which 240 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,080 isn't great, but that should be something where you could stay 241 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,520 within a possession or two. But they let Penn State score 242 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,800 1.19 points per possession. You know that they they let Penn 243 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,640 State shoot 43% from three. They put Penn State on the line 244 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,120 30 times and they hit 26 of them. 245 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:46,320 And that's again, it's just like the same thing over and over 246 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:47,960 again with a slightly different skin. 247 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,480 And even in the wins, as you pointed out, the profile is not 248 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,800 that different. It's just that a couple of shots 249 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,040 went in for Indiana that are a little bit surprising in 250 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,960 retrospect, given how the rest of the games have gone. 251 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,920 Yeah, no, it's, it's and unfortunately where we sit now 252 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,720 is like that was kind of the the Penn State on the road was kind 253 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,560 of the last port in the storm. You know Indiana could still 254 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:12,760 pull one of these out and this is still a team. 255 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,040 You know we went you know one at Michigan which they're not great 256 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,360 this year but you did beat Maryland at home and so Maryland 257 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,240 is a better team than like let's say Minnesota and you also play 258 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,920 Maryland again, you know there's there's there are possible you 259 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,160 know Wisconsin has had its issues this season like things 260 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,480 can be put together It it does just feel like this is kind of a 261 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,200 a train that just doesn't have an engine. 262 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,280 It's just kind of like just it's just coasting and I think that's 263 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,480 really the the tough part is how quickly we seem to be adrift and 264 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,040 just kind of rudderless and and things that everyone has said. 265 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,720 And it doesn't feel like there's really an answer and it doesn't 266 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,440 feel like things are changing. It just feels like you continue 267 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,600 to kind of go out with the same type of gameplay and you still 268 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,920 get the same auto benches. You know like you you were kind 269 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,120 of saying like you know he doesn't do that. 270 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,800 It was like part, part of it was like some of the guys aren't 271 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,560 playing because they have two fouls and it's just like they're 272 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,640 sitting on the bench forever. And you know, and again, we're 273 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:11,840 we're fans. We don't know everything that's 274 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,360 going on in the team. But it is frustrating when you 275 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,640 see a lot of the things that from this perspective look like 276 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,320 aren't helping where it's like, hey, Khalil Ware isn't playing 277 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,600 like Mackenzie and Bako always seems to get 2 fouls but is 278 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,000 never allowed to play through it. 279 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,960 Maybe he'll always get a third foul, but there does come a 280 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,400 point where it's like, all right, well, you've tried it a 281 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,680 bunch of ways your time. Like, I see other college 282 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,720 basketball teams trying different things, and it doesn't 283 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:37,920 always work, but sometimes it works. 284 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,920 Like, that's the frustrating part when it's like as a fan, 285 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,080 you just, you see the same things over and over again. 286 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,640 But now you see, you know, four straight losses against kind of 287 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,040 suboptimal Big 10 opponents. And that's where it's like, I'd 288 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,120 love to see you at least try something different. 289 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,240 Maybe you'd have the same result. 290 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,440 I don't know. But that that's the. 291 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,720 Frustrating part from a fan's perspective, it was interesting 292 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,880 that in the post game, I mean we've talked a lot about the the 293 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,000 communication in the post game press conferences as they as 294 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,920 they are not being very good and not being very satisfying in 295 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,320 terms of the kinds of things that have been said by Woodson. 296 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,560 It was interesting that Woodson yesterday in the post game press 297 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,520 conference you know, said well, you know, essentially I'm not 298 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,240 happy with how I've coached this team. 299 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,560 I won't put the blame for that on anybody but Mike Woodson or 300 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,880 something to that effect, which is odd because he has put the 301 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,560 blame on not Mike Woodson. In prior press conferences. 302 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,760 It did feel like maybe for the first time we got like a clear 303 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,840 recognition from Woodson that, OK, things are really off the 304 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,760 tracks right now. And I just wonder if that came 305 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:54,080 too late because it really, Scott feels like public 306 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,760 sentiment about Mike Woodson and about this team has kind of 307 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,000 rounded the bend, so to speak. Like, it really feels like we 308 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,400 hit an invisible barrier probably during that Nebraska 309 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,960 game, but maybe during the Northwestern game where fans 310 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,920 kind of en masse have just, you know, not everybody, but many, 311 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,960 many fans, many people we talked to. 312 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,839 Many of the the people that we see have just kind of thrown 313 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,319 their hands up and said I'm done. 314 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,920 And you know, that's why I found Woodson's comments and they 315 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,400 were, they were not long comments. 316 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,960 It wasn't like he went long. I think he was in the press 317 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,240 conference for like 3 minutes or maybe slightly less than 3 318 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,280 minutes yesterday. But even that kind of public 319 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,600 acknowledgement a is is different from what we've seen. 320 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,720 But B it it almost feels like an attempt at damage control. 321 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,440 But the the the a lot of a lot of water has been taken on in 322 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,520 terms of IU basketball's perception and the way that fans 323 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,000 are are looking at this right now. 324 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,800 I I wonder if it's too late to try to turn that ship around, at 325 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,440 least in terms of how people are feeling. 326 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,240 I mean I'll distill that down. It's like it's a toxic 327 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,240 atmosphere right now. I mean you and Tony talked about 328 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,520 it like the you know you had people booing at assembly hall 329 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,680 which it I'm I'm not a booer like I don't I don't really Boo 330 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,920 I I even as bad as it gets with IU football like I don't really 331 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,160 just I'm not booing the team like you you you said it very 332 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,120 well I'm not going to distill your thoughts like I I 333 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,440 definitely understand the sediment where sentiment where 334 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,040 people are coming from. But I will say this like it's 335 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,960 here are the things, here's like the reality points. 336 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,960 When it gets to this point, and we've seen it before, like the 337 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,360 end of the, you know, Davis era a little bit, the end of the 338 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,760 Crean era, the end of the Archie era. 339 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,480 We've seen it in football at the end of basically every, every 340 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,160 era. You kind of pass this Rubicon 341 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,720 and once you, it's really hard. We keep on saying it's really 342 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,040 hard to get it back. I can't think of a situation 343 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,560 where you've gotten it back. You know, Crean lost it after 344 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,320 that #1 ranked team. He won a Big Ten title and still 345 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,520 didn't get it back. You know once fans cross that 346 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,560 line it it's just I keep I I just don't know if you can get 347 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,920 it back and I don't know if there's a lot of examples of it 348 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,560 getting back in writing the ship and writing off into the sunset 349 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,240 into a great spot. And that's that's the part that 350 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:12,560 worries me because once the fans are there and you're having them 351 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,960 you know booing at the Big 10 tournament like you did under 352 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,120 Archie or unfortunately booing. You know we we still two more 353 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:18,800 home games. It's like they're they're 354 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,120 probably not going to go well. And this is where I, you know my 355 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:27,600 take on it is you know I'm not going to say I'm not going to 356 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,120 say what needs to be done. But it's like here's here's what 357 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,640 I would say if absolutely nothing changes and you come 358 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,160 back and you have the same type of season next year. 359 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,680 To me, I would say like that's something we're like the IU 360 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,040 administration and the athletic department like they've allowed 361 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,320 this to be an atmosphere where like if if there's booing again 362 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,160 it's kind of like what's on them like like you can't not do 363 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,080 anything. But I don't know you know we're 364 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,120 not going to get in like what what exactly you do. 365 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,200 But it's like I think everyone would kind of agree you can't 366 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,320 just do nothing or else or else this is going to just continue 367 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,320 to roll over because people are pissed because because people 368 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,480 care like and that's The thing is like this is what fans are, 369 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:10,880 is like they care. I don't. 370 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:16,320 The thing is, I mean, there's a level of, I hate to call it 371 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,960 apathy, cause apathy. You're not going out of your way 372 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,480 to talk about how you don't care if you're actually apathetic. 373 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,400 Yeah, I know. I guess we talked about, yeah, 374 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,200 it's kind of on both sides. No and I'm talking and I'm not 375 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,680 talking about you or me necessarily. 376 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,520 I mean we we have to watch this otherwise we don't have a show 377 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,280 and we can't you know we can't multi level market you VIP 378 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,600 videos if we don't have a show you know so like we've got 379 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,520 certain things. Quiet part out loud. 380 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,880 Galen stop. But no, but you know, the number 381 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,160 of people who have kind of gone out of their way to tell me 382 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,840 that, like, you know, I just, I've stopped watching. 383 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,120 It's like, well, to me, that's the expression of a group of 384 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:58,920 people that still wants to care and has kind of shut things off 385 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,640 emotionally. And I don't blame them. 386 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,680 I mean, you know the thing that stuck out to me more than 387 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,640 anything else yesterday, you're facing a Penn State team that 388 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,160 you've already lost to and you lost to them last time because 389 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,720 they hit 12, three-point shots. That was 36 of the 85 points 390 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,840 that they scored on you in Assembly Hall. 391 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:26,200 That that graphic at the end of the game yesterday, Scott, it 392 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,080 was like maybe like 4 minutes to play and it said something like 393 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,240 I think Indiana had 71 points at the time of the graphic and it 394 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,640 was like 65 of those points came either off of like dunks, layups 395 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,160 or free throws you know which. And at the time I think Indiana 396 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,840 still had not hit a three. They they obviously hit a couple 397 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,360 at the very end of the game. But to have lost to a Penn State 398 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:54,400 team that only seems to be able to beat you if they're hitting 399 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,360 threes and do not, like, think maybe we need to figure out a 400 00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,520 way to incorporate this more in our offense. 401 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,760 Between the last time we played them in this time, it just kind 402 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,960 of felt like no adaptations have been made to the plan. 403 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,160 There's no different approaches. You know, It wasn't like they 404 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,040 were significantly better in defending the three. 405 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,320 Penn State hit nine this time instead of 12. 406 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,880 It it just really felt like no lessons were learned. 407 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,880 And that frustrates IU fans more than anything else. 408 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,800 I think IU fans will accept losses if it feels like what we 409 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,960 learned from that loss and we'll be better for it the next time. 410 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,320 And the people who have said well I haven't watched games 411 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,480 really it feels like and some of them have just outright said it 412 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,760 to me. I'm not watching games because 413 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,400 the it's the same experience every time. 414 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,160 It's either play a superior opponent and get blown out like 415 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,080 Purdue or play an equal or slightly inferior opponent and 416 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,160 look the same every single time, not being able to you know, have 417 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,080 a modern looking offense on one end and then not defending 418 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,040 properly on the other. And so yes, I to go back to what 419 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:06,600 you were saying, the idea that fans are going to be in any way, 420 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,280 shape or form like satisfied with the direction of things. 421 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,360 If there's no change, I mean Indiana has to win out to get to 422 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,560 500 in the conference right now that's that almost certainly is 423 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,440 not going to happen given the mix of things. 424 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,000 Given the way the team is playing they're far more likely, 425 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,160 they're far more likely to lose out and and as you say if if the 426 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,880 plan is to go into next season with no changes to the overall 427 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,280 approach, if there's if the plan is to go in and just say well 428 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,840 that that stunk, but we're going to come back stronger than ever 429 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,480 next time. I don't think people are going 430 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,040 to be particularly excited about that. 431 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,560 But that is that is essentially where things are at right now 432 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:52,320 and it is only going to get more toxic down the stretch here, 433 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,640 which is unfortunate. I mean, to some degree, I guess 434 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,280 it's good that Indiana only has two home games left, but man, it 435 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,320 is. It is a tough sled right now for 436 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,880 everybody. Like there are no winners in 437 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,920 this at all, it feels like. No. 438 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,560 Well, a couple things. And and you, you know, I'm kind 439 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,080 of with Woodson and the staff. I'm done listening to their post 440 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,680 game comments because like this is the offense they play. 441 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,880 This is not directed. You like, you know, I I hear 442 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,680 this log, man, they just shoot a couple more threes. 443 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,560 I say it's like they're not like they just don't like you'll have 444 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,640 these weird aberration games. They will shoot a bunch. 445 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,480 They might hit a couple, you know, hit seven or eight. 446 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,560 It's like we look all right. It's like this is not the 447 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,120 offense they run and we spent all offseason talking about, all 448 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:32,360 right. You know, maybe Woodson only did 449 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:33,920 that because of Trey Jackson Davis. 450 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,600 And you know you kind of work yourself into a pretzel of like, 451 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,840 all right, well, that's you. You have a generational talent 452 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,800 at center and you have like Purdue does as well and they 453 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,520 seem to be able to shoot threes. But it's like this year has 454 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,080 shown this is this is the offense he wants to run. 455 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,880 Like whether he says it or not. Like maybe not to like this is 456 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,640 the offense he's running and it's not changing. 457 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,040 Like he can say whatever he wants. 458 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,280 And and I do think that's a real problem because part of this is, 459 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,240 you know, it's not WWE but sports is also entertainment. 460 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,800 Like it is fun to watch a team that you enjoy to watch. 461 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,640 And as we've mentioned many times, this is not just, this is 462 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,160 not a super fun style of basketball to watch and the 463 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,520 results also aren't there. But I can already hear it in the 464 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,480 offseason us doing pods assembly call not picking on people. 465 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,480 But it's like kind of like, all right, you know, well you know 466 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,320 this will happen. You know, if I you can just 467 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,920 shoot a couple more threes, you know, we can just increase that 468 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,360 efficiency there. It's like this is all based on 469 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,760 no evidence that any of this is going to change. 470 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,320 Like this is the style that this staff wants to play like that is 471 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,880 just bar none hard stop. Like this is the style and 472 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,000 there's really no if you were going to make a change, you 473 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,440 would have made it this year. You know this is a coach who's 474 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,400 later in his tenure. Most coaches later in their 475 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,080 tenure don't just automatic you know Tony Bennett doesn't 476 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,240 normally just in his 60s like hey I'm going to start running 477 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,160 a, you know five out off like they run the styles that they 478 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,040 run And so that's where I get kind of pre frustrated is I I 479 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,760 don't see. I'm not saying it can't work. 480 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,440 It can work. But I I don't think it's going 481 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,960 to work based on massive fundamental changes in the way 482 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,760 that that our team plays because as you mentioned you're not 483 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,840 seeing it happen you know in game after game where it would 484 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,200 make more sense to play Penn State differently. 485 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,520 We don't. We play them the same way and 486 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,560 we're getting the same results. But it's it's frustrating 487 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,520 because it's not it's not a fun product to watch. 488 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,320 I I want to can I say one more thing about the frustration just 489 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,000 while we're here. You know, this is a part that I 490 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,720 do think you and I understand. It's wild to think this, that 491 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,680 some younger fans may not know this, but it's like this is all 492 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,800 part of the the tapestry of what we're living in IU basketball. 493 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,120 You know, I'm also a fan of the NBA. 494 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,760 You know, like 76er fans are are very, very angsty about this 495 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,120 team because of where they went through to get here. 496 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,040 The Sixers did a complete rebuild. 497 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,040 They did a tank job where they spent five years just out in the 498 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,400 wilderness getting first round picks. 499 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,400 They kind of they kind of blew away you know the tapestry of 500 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,280 what you and I live with is we went through a stud that to the 501 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,800 studs build out of this team in the first couple years of cream 502 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,400 which I'm not going to re litigate. 503 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,040 But it's like we did it and as a fan base for the most part it's 504 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,640 like all right that was I don't look back at 09 and again this I 505 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,040 we lived through it. I went to a lot of those games 506 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,040 that that team went 6 and 25 six and 24 one and 17 in the big 10. 507 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,280 It felt like most of those games were fun atmospheres. 508 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,240 It wasn't toxic. We we lived through an entire 509 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,720 rebuild. But as I always point out, it's 510 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,800 like I lived through those years like those were two years of my 511 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,080 life as an IU basketball fan that are just completely punted 512 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,000 into the sun. I'll get snarky here and be like 513 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,720 prices didn't go down, like my varsity club donations as a 25 514 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,120 year member didn't go down, like that all happened. 515 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,600 But it's like that that angst does kind of like nobody owes 516 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,400 anybody anything in this, you know, except for me owing money 517 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,040 for the tick people money for tickets. 518 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,040 But it's like that is there like that is like all right, we did 519 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,880 a, we did a rebuild. And so it's like that's where I 520 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,320 do think a lot of this, gosh, every other team has one bad 521 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,680 season. It's like, I don't know, I was 522 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,400 going to ask you like, I don't know other teams that did that 523 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,960 kind of a massive rebuild, had their fan base stay with them. 524 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,720 And then like, I just don't know if there's really a precedent 525 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,280 for that. And I I do think it's important 526 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,880 because it does, at least for me it's like that does factor into 527 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,720 some of the like pent up angst that kind of comes up. 528 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,680 It's like I really don't want to go through, not that we're going 529 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,960 to be at that point, but like I don't want to keep on going 530 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,120 through these micro rebuilds. It's like we we did this, we 531 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,920 went to the studs, we rehabbed this house. 532 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,160 You're the only team I could think of that came to mind is 533 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840 like the the Kentucky team of like the late 80s where they're 534 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,840 on the cover of Sports Illustrated, the end of the 535 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,360 Eddie Sutton era. And it's like I went back and 536 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,680 looked, it's like they were 13 and 1914 and 14 and then went 537 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,440 with Pitino 22 and 622 and seven and like, they're off and 538 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:00,680 running. I look at that. 539 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,840 It's like, man, I wish this season we could be 13 and 14 and 540 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,640 14. So I I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm 541 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,080 'cause I don't have a point. But it's like I do think that 542 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,040 that rebuild really matters in that it kind of like it. 543 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,880 It is. Having gone through that, it's 544 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,680 like you you do get pent up angst where it's like I'm tired 545 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,840 of rebuilding. I don't think there's a comp. 546 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,240 We've talked about this before, but no other program. 547 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,440 The only other program I can think of, the only one that and 548 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,160 it's a very different circumstance but it had 549 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,680 essentially the same outcome from a roster perspective is 550 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:46,400 Baylor who you know had a murder scandal under Dave Bliss and it 551 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,480 required essentially it was a slightly longer version of what 552 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,720 happened with Indiana. But they had four years where 553 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,280 they were under 500 each of the four years they had three of 554 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,360 those years where they were winless, you know the O six 555 00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,760 season. I don't even think that they 556 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,920 were allowed to play non conference games. 557 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,280 You know that was part of that sanction. 558 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,520 So that it's an extreme example but you know it's it is 559 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:18,840 interesting thinking about the the long tail aspect of how that 560 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,600 program was rebuilt under Scott Drew. 561 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,560 And you know certainly there are things to criticize about the 562 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,160 way that Scott Drew did business. 563 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,280 But and you know it was very intermittent for them in terms 564 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,760 of success early. You know, they'd make a 565 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,200 tournament. They missed the tournament. 566 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,800 They'd have a really good year and then they'd have a bad year. 567 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,320 But you know I think with the you know the thing about Indiana 568 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,800 is that there's just not a comp to even like a program like 569 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,560 Michigan who had to kind of bottom out a little bit after 570 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,400 the Tommy Amerker era ended. They bring in John beeline that 571 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,040 shakes things up a bit and then they had a pretty significant 572 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,760 and consistent level of success. I just with Indiana, I keep 573 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:05,320 coming back to this this idea of it's not bad that Indiana felt 574 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,520 like it could do better than the inconsistencies that Crean 575 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,280 showed at the end of his tenure and you know, missing 2 576 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,080 tournaments in the last four years. 577 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,280 But then the flip side is they just made what appear to be 578 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,320 wrong choices a couple of times and perhaps there were, you 579 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,000 know, is with Archie Miller perhaps there were warning signs 580 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,160 that that should have been seen. I don't. 581 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,040 I don't know if that's necessarily fair, but I I do 582 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,320 think that a lot of the frustration does come out of 583 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,000 that. But I I don't know, I don't know 584 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,760 if I totally agree with you about that being kind of the 585 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,200 core 'cause I think for most fans that's just kind of, I mean 586 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,040 that was a long time ago, that was 15 years ago now 587 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,080 essentially. And so to, you know, we've seen 588 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,800 programs, do resets have success and then kind of recede? 589 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,440 You know, from my perspective, I look at where this Indiana 590 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,320 program's AT and why there's frustration. 591 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,520 I just think the frustration is it's less about what happened in 592 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,560 2009 and more what happened in 2019 and and around that period 593 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,440 where there just wasn't the elevation of the program that 594 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,240 was promised with letting Cream go. 595 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:24,160 And what has happened in this season is such a huge reset back 596 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,920 to a level that reminds people of resetting the program that 597 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,560 it's like now we've got real problems. 598 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,240 And, you know, I don't know how deep the average IU fan really 599 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,440 thinks about all of this, and I'm not expecting them to. 600 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,000 I guess that's that's kind of our job, to find interesting 601 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,640 things to talk about on the podcast. 602 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,520 You and I, I think, think about it. 603 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,800 And they're like, wow, you know, you would have thought that 604 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,360 hitting that reset button to the degree that Indiana did would 605 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,040 have guaranteed some level of future success because it would 606 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,400 have been like, well, clearly things went wrong at this point, 607 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,400 but we're going to set a proper foundation. 608 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,280 I just don't think a proper foundation was ever set. 609 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,920 And you know, I've, I go back to this a lot. 610 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,040 I've talked about it a lot when we've talked football. 611 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:15,040 You know, I I Indiana is so beholden to the logistical and 612 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,240 program running abilities of the coaches that they've hired. 613 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,360 And and look, a a lot of programs are like that. 614 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,320 But it feels like Indiana thinks they're in the air of Kansas and 615 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,120 North Carolina and Kentucky where there's an institutional 616 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,600 stability in the program because of who they are that can 617 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,680 supersede a bad coach hire and allow you to come back. 618 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:38,920 And Indiana's just not like that. 619 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,040 I think if anything has been demonstrated, not just in the 620 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,560 last 20 years, but in the entire history of IU athletics for 621 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,520 men's basketball and really women's basketball too. 622 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,400 Now I think we see this as well. If Indiana hires a really good 623 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,680 coach, they're going to be really good. 624 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,960 And if Indiana hires a coach that does not have those 625 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,360 intangible aspects or the tangible aspects that make them 626 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,560 a top level coach in college basketball, they're not going to 627 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,760 be good. And I don't know that the 628 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,960 equation is any more complicated than that. 629 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,239 Now that's, I think that there's a lot of implications to that. 630 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,320 Like does Indiana need to look really hard at what Kansas and 631 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,040 Kentucky and North Carolina do, who I think are really the only 632 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,360 schools that you can say for sure fall into this paradigm? 633 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,440 Do they need to look at that and say, all right, how could we 634 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,560 manage our basketball program differently so that we are not 635 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,120 so susceptible to these huge swings of fortune based upon who 636 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,920 has been hired? But I don't know if that's 637 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,040 something that you just flip a switch and do because that's 638 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,199 there. There are basketball programs 639 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,840 all over the country who would like to have that secret sauce. 640 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,080 It may just be that that's not something that's attainable for 641 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,840 Indiana, much like, I mean, UConn had a similar situation. 642 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,920 They they had a they had a Hall of Fame coach, They won four or 643 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,800 three national titles. They won one on the fumes of 644 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,320 that coaches operations. But that coach wasn't very good 645 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,040 and he ends up getting fired. They hire another awesome coach 646 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,920 and now they're winning national titles or have won a national 647 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,600 title and are competitive for another one. 648 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,840 I just wonder if if it's maybe just as simple as that. 649 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,600 Yeah, no, I I think you're right. 650 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,560 And what's you know, what's interesting is two of those 651 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,000 three teams I, I talk about a lot that, you know you look at 652 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,960 Kentucky, you know they had the the Billy Gillespie era which by 653 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,480 the way doesn't look that bad in retrospect. 654 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,440 You go back and look at Gillespie's numbers and it's not 655 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,680 awful. He's sorry I had it here in a 656 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,960 second. You know he was 18 and 13 and 22 657 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,840 and 14 in his last year and it's like wow that's not not too bad. 658 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,720 But it it wasn't working there. They only gave him two years. 659 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,320 But like the the dot, dot, dot is like then they hired 660 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,040 Calipari, who at the time was like, all right this it seems 661 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,160 like he's going to be a fit that's going to work and it 662 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,840 worked. Same thing with you know North 663 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,360 Carolina had this with Brad Doherty that he was a, you know 664 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,640 former former Tar Heel. They only gave him two years I 665 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,040 believe 2. But it's like they they hired, 666 00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:07,200 they hired Roy Williams who no guarantee he would have won a 667 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,800 title at that point. He had not won a title. 668 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,680 His rap was kind of like he can get him there and can't win the 669 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,760 title which was kind of Calipari's rap also. 670 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,680 But it's like those are also dependent on those guys working 671 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,000 out. And so I I do fully agree. 672 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,360 It's like if you're going to play in that air you you got to, 673 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,920 if you're going to make quick moves you got to then make the 674 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,880 right next move which like that that's a whole different that's 675 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,320 not even get into that but it's like I I hear you on that. 676 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,200 The other thing with that, I will say like we get comped a 677 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,440 lot that this always you and Tony touched on this. 678 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,720 But I just want to hammer this point home because it drives me 679 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,760 bananas when people are like, you know, hey man, everybody's 680 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,760 got, you know, I hear this sometimes. 681 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,600 Yeah, everyone's got a bad year like, you know, North Carolina 682 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,240 missed the tournament one year and it's like, all right, well, 683 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,520 First off, that team wasn't that bad. 684 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,080 Like that North Carolina team statistically was that bad. 685 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,480 But yes, you know, there's different ways to miss the 686 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,440 tournament, I'll say that. But it's like you can have a 687 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,240 kind of an off year if you've had very high level success. 688 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:01,560 I mean, North Carolina has won a title in this century. 689 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,280 North Carolina's been to multiple final fours. 690 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,880 North Carolina was in the final four the year before and then 691 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,960 missed the tournament. Like very top notch high level 692 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,600 success covers up for a lot. Like it's a Bill Simmons thing. 693 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,120 He won a title. He can't talk for five. 694 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,480 You know, you can't complain about your team for five years. 695 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,520 You know, a lot of times those those mad seasons happen after 696 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,720 that. And I think what we're running 697 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,080 into, at least for me, my frustration is like we're 698 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,080 getting comp the stuff like look, we've barely made sweet 699 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,720 sixteens. We've you know gotten blown out 700 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,960 in the tournament games that we're losing. 701 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:36,680 Very disappointed that that's not high level enough to then 702 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,960 have basically really bad worst seasons. 703 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,560 Like this is the worst season when North Carolina missed the 704 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,680 the tournament two years ago but it's like they had a final four 705 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,080 they were riding off of. We have a a round of 32 loss 706 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,040 like that. That's the difference is we're 707 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,760 not getting enough of that top level success for at least for 708 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,080 me to just have seasons that you just completely punt away. 709 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,560 And yeah, I mean, it's just it's it's a bummer because I think 710 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,920 most fans are at a point and I know I'm kind of getting there 711 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,560 to where it's just like, I just, I want this season to be over. 712 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:08,880 Like there's really nothing left to talk about. 713 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,360 There's nothing more really to accomplish. 714 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,680 Like it's unless this team wins the Big 10 tournament, which we 715 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,680 don't do, or unless this team goes on a massive run in the NIT 716 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,760 and wins the NIT, which is like there's no, there's no markers, 717 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,840 this team is going to do that that that you've seen so far 718 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,000 this year. So that'd be a complete 719 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,520 aberration. It's kind of like I just I'm 720 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,720 ready for it to be over and it's just it's wild that we're at 721 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,560 this point and I haven't been at this point in IU basketball in 722 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,760 quite some time where I just want this to be over. 723 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,680 It's very reminiscent of IU football, which is a very kind 724 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,640 of there's a core face base there, but it's very apathetic 725 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,280 base and it's just it's wild that we're in the spot with IU 726 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,600 basketball. But I I do think most fans are 727 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,240 there and I think it's a I will say again, it's very, very, it 728 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,800 puts the IU administration in a tough spot because if they just 729 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,480 do absolutely nothing. I do think if things get kind of 730 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,720 bad and toxic next year, while not great, it does. 731 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:00,000 Kind of like I would put it at their feet and be like you did 732 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,800 this, you let this fester. I'll take a different approach 733 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,320 and it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier. 734 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,520 I mean ultimately I think a lot of the a lot of the core ideas 735 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:20,080 around IU basketball and what decisions get made with it are 736 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,880 predicated on this idea that there's there's something 737 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,360 intrinsically different about the program. 738 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,760 Not. I mean that's it's obviously a 739 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,760 special program. It has a huge fan base. 740 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,160 It has a fan base that travels. But I'm not talking about that. 741 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,920 I'm talking about the actual program and and the elements to 742 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,720 it. And this is, this is not 743 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:41,960 breaking news for anybody listening, but there's nothing 744 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,840 in the actual results and there hasn't been anything in the 745 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,080 actual results for, for 30 years that make this any different 746 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:54,360 than any other kind of upper half Power 5 conference team or 747 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,880 Power 6 or whatever you want to say. 748 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,080 And and and you know, I mean you've got a few things. 749 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,320 It's not like it's completely bereft. 750 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,160 There's a national title appearance in that mix. 751 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,360 There's, you know, there's there's there's conference 752 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:05,960 championships and stuff like that. 753 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,280 You know, but I mean. It's I mean Georgia Tech has all 754 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,680 of those things too So Utah, Utah has those things in the 755 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,400 last 30 years. I mean you can go down the list. 756 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,680 Butler's got more national title appearances. 757 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,120 I mean I mean so but don't calm. But there's not there's there's 758 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:28,040 nothing that you know there's the famous RMK fan one on pigs 759 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,680 back in the day the you know the the infamous line there's 760 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,920 there's nothing different in the water in Bloomington. 761 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:40,360 And that's this is where I think you if you are going to say, OK, 762 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,480 this isn't working much like we saw you know with with some of 763 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,120 the examples that you provided earlier, Indiana is not going to 764 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,280 save Indiana. Like the program's, the 765 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,840 program's vitality the the, the DNA of the program is not going 766 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,280 to dig the program out of the problems that it's in. 767 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,800 And I hope you understand what I mean by that, folks, when I say 768 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,160 that it's it's that there's, you know, the you're not going to 769 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,000 have a sudden shift of fortune solely because it's Indiana. 770 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:20,160 Because as I said earlier, Indiana really is so reliant on 771 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:26,920 having a coach that is capable of doing the things that make a 772 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,560 program special rather than leaning on an already special 773 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,560 program. And you know, whereas you've, 774 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,440 you know you've had multiple great coaches with North 775 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,480 Carolina, with Kansas, with Kentucky. 776 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,960 You know Indiana's had two essentially they've had Branch, 777 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,040 McCracken, I mean Everett, Dean Everdeen's kind of in a special 778 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,360 category because the the game was much different. 779 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,000 And I, you know if if Everdeen had stuck around for another 780 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,640 decade, it would have, it would have been interesting to see 781 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,800 what would have happened. But Branch were cracking and 782 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,960 then Bob Knight and then you got a bunch of not great years and 783 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,360 or very inconsistent years that are probably more the actual DNA 784 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,040 of what Indiana is than necessarily what Indiana is 785 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,240 under those two coaches. That's what I guess I'm getting 786 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,760 at. And so the hope would be if 787 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,640 you're if you're not going to see any change, there's got to 788 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,240 be an alteration to the approach because the approach is not 789 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:24,560 working. And did did the approach work 790 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,640 last year. It worked to a degree, but 791 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:33,720 certainly not to a degree that most people view Indiana in the 792 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:36,840 Indiana fan base within the perspective of. 793 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,520 I mean it was not it was a, it was a sub par year for a great 794 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,080 program. It was a really great year for a 795 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,480 program that doesn't have a lot going for it. 796 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,480 You know what I mean? So that's, that's where I'm kind 797 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,720 of at right now, where you take the adriftness of this season, 798 00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,240 you take the lack of direction, you take the fact that it just 799 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,360 doesn't feel like a whole lot is changing in terms of of 800 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:02,920 anything. You take the comments that have 801 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,680 been made-up to this point and and the idea that, well, you 802 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,680 know it's it's youth, it's an experience, it's it's a lack of 803 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,840 of carryover from 1 roster to the next. 804 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,880 It's like well, all those things can be true, but that those 805 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,520 things aren't fixing themselves either at this point. 806 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,080 Like there's got to be some engineering from above that's 807 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,160 like, well, this approach is clearly not working and that to 808 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,720 me is the biggest indictment right now or it's like that. 809 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,160 There do not appear to be any changes that have been made that 810 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,400 have been positively affecting things, and if anything, it 811 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,360 feels like the team's gotten worse relative to the other 812 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:37,720 team. Teams in the conference over the 813 00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:39,720 course of the last month and 1/2. 814 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,240 Well, and something that you and Tony hit on and I do feel like 815 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:47,720 this is kind of, you know, you and I saw, we saw that like I'll 816 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:52,680 call it the Ken Palm problem this team had in you know, even 817 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,320 in like early December. We're just like, you know, we 818 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,400 kind of like you and I had a podcast talk about how that 819 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,960 Kansas game was kind of a must win just from a Ken Palm 820 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,600 perspective of trying to make the tournament because we could 821 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,680 see how the math was going to work out. 822 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,240 I remember talking to some rational people like that aren't 823 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,000 deep into college basketball like I am at that time. 824 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,360 And they're like, come on, man, like you make 500, the Big 10, 825 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,120 you're making the turn, I guess so much, so much to play. 826 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:15,840 And it's like, all right. What? 827 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,840 Like you look ahead and it's like, I just don't Like we 828 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,400 didn't see the path. And you know, the results have 829 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,080 not been where we thought they were going to be. 830 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,640 They've been worse. But it's like this is shown. 831 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,320 The path was going to be really tough. 832 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,960 People got to there. You know, where I also think you 833 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,560 know you and Tony hit on this that that that I think fans are 834 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,200 going to come to realize soon as well is and where I get very 835 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,760 concerned is just as you mentioned like changing this all 836 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,360 up. But you look at next year like 837 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,160 there's just there's not a lot in the pipeline that's going to 838 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,800 change. You have one recruit coming in, 839 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,880 so now you're going to have to get a bunch of people in the 840 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,720 portal. You know, Tony mentioned that 841 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,280 teams that got, you know, 3-4 guys in the portal have not done 842 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,080 well this year. You know, that's been a refrain. 843 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,640 We don't have continuity. We need more players. 844 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,600 Yet we none of those things are going to happen next year. 845 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,840 It's just not going to happen unless you bring this entire 846 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,600 team back, which it's also like, but you this team does need some 847 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,400 other pieces and some other areas. 848 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,320 They're going to have to come in the Portal and as I rail on a 849 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,720 bunch like he, they did really well in the Portal last year. 850 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,480 So they think you're just going to do that and do better after a 851 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,040 bad season when the vibes aren't good. 852 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,760 I think that's also tough, but I I think that's where those of us 853 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,000 who are really concerned we're we're just kind of future 854 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,400 casting, which you can be totally wrong, like next year 855 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,560 could be an A complete success. And I would love that more than 856 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,400 anything else. I'm just not sure how you get to 857 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,920 that based on the system that we're playing and based on the 858 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,800 pieces that are that are here and the pieces that you're going 859 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,000 to have to get. It's going to be a Herculean 860 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,520 task. And I guess I will finish this 861 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,800 by just saying that's where you know, I appreciate the comments 862 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,880 that Woodson made at the post game, kind of a little bit of a 863 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,440 Mia Coppa. But I'm I'm just the thing that 864 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,640 I go back to is like this is this is going to be a 865 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,920 unbelievably important offseason and it's going to be an absolute 866 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,440 ton of work. Like this is going to be an 867 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,960 absolute complete grind because you're going to have to get new 868 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,240 recruits. You're going to have to re 869 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,560 recruit the players you have. You have to hit the portal like 870 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,960 this is this is a 5 alarm fire. But this is going to be a ton of 871 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,840 work and I'm just like, I'm just like dude, are are we, are we 872 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,000 ready for the like the amount of hustle and work this is going to 873 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,960 take is, is going to be unlike, I think any other program is 874 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,560 going to have to deal with it. You're going to have to get guys 875 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,280 to decommit other places come here. 876 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,800 You have to win people over, win over your own team. 877 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,520 Like this is just, it's a ton. And I just, I look at them like 878 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,240 I just is is the hustle the fight the energy to do all this. 879 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,280 I just like are we sure it's all there. 880 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,280 It's kind of my well. And no, I I think it's a it's a 881 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,240 good. Point I I think additionally, 882 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,120 what are you going to remake the program into the image of? 883 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,800 Is that going to be sufficient? Because a lot of this is about 884 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,480 blueprints, a lot of it is about what am I trying to build. 885 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,400 It's not just let me go get some new players and replace the ones 886 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,040 that aren't working. It's like, well, what are you 887 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,960 plugging them into? And are you really thinking more 888 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,800 fundamentally about why this season went so bad? 889 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,000 Because this is we. We talked about this in the last 890 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,440 podcast with Tony. If, if you don't, if there's not 891 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,960 an honesty about why things are not working on both sides of the 892 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:31,000 ball, on both ends of the floor, however you want to say it, then 893 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:36,280 you're you're really going to struggle to come up with a plan 894 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:41,880 to plug these new pieces into as well as trying to reformat to 895 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,960 some degree. The pieces that are already 896 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:50,800 there, I mean Indiana in conference is I think -.8 or 897 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,440 point O 8 in terms of efficiency margin, which is real bad. 898 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,080 Efficiency margins basically take your offensive efficiency, 899 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,200 you subtract your defensive efficiency. 900 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,400 You don't want to have a negative number like Maryland 901 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,960 is. Maryland's offense is is 902 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,200 actually worse than Indiana's. But their defense is much 903 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,920 better. So their efficiency margin is 904 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,600 essentially an A net 0. Indiana is a -, .8, which is 905 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,920 bad. So what are you changing? 906 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,480 I'm just and I'm curious because what we've heard is not I need 907 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,080 to change how I'm doing things or we need to change how we're 908 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,600 doing things. From a coaching perspective, 909 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,520 it's well, we're too young. OK, so so is the. 910 00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:29,080 So the problem is not the system. 911 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,640 The problem is the youth we've heard, oh we don't have we don't 912 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:39,840 have our point guard OK that's be that as it May is if that's 913 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,640 the problem then we're relying on going out and getting a point 914 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:49,280 guard in in the portal the right one that can fix all of this. 915 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,520 That really is frightening because those guys don't exist 916 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,720 or if they do they're going to be there's a ton of teams who 917 00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,480 would like a top notch point guard to come in and fix their 918 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,280 offense or fix their overall flow. 919 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,040 I mean other than money which as we've talked about is not the 920 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,280 end all be all for players like that necessarily it's it's 921 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,720 money, yes, but it's also fit. It's also showcasing. 922 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,520 So is that the issue? OK, it's youth or it's a lack of 923 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,400 continuity in terms of experience? 924 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,280 Well, that you're not going to, that's not going to get better 925 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,240 if simultaneously you're saying I got to go get new people, 926 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:29,640 that's that was kind of the point. 927 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,520 And look, Indiana's not the only team that's going to have to 928 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,360 reconcile these things. Michigan is going to have the 929 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,240 exact same conversation. I'm assuming they're going to 930 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,640 move on from Juwan Howard, whoever comes in there. 931 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,920 I mean, Michigan's an attractive brand. 932 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,760 They've got, you know, they don't have as much nil money, 933 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,000 but they've got a lot of other things going for them. 934 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,760 But they're going to have the advantage of a new coach 935 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,240 probably coming in and saying things are different now. 936 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,920 And I have this exciting new system that I've brought in from 937 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,360 elsewhere. And I'm going to use you the 938 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,240 same way I use this other player who was probably awesome at the 939 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,680 place that I just came from. And you can recruit off of that 940 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,880 Ohio State who's had a similarly horrific season. 941 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,360 And actually the statistics are they're they're better than 942 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,080 Indiana, certainly offensively, but they're worse defensively. 943 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,040 But a new coach is going to come in there from somewhere else and 944 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,080 say look at all the success I had here this if you go to the 945 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,920 Exes and Joes podcast, this is that honeymoon effect. 946 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:25,760 Indiana's not going to have that. 947 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,000 It was Mike Woodson and and that's The thing is. 948 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,520 Like you know that's what's going to make if if we keep 949 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:38,040 things the same next year is going to be really, really hard 950 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,400 because like one of two things is going to happen if they keep 951 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,840 the exact same system of basketball. 952 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,680 I think we would all agree it's that's that's a very that's a 953 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,440 needle that I needle. You really have to thread to win 954 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,760 with this style of basketball. But if you overhaul the system 955 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,280 like like you were saying and in the honeymoon period, it's like 956 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,800 that's why you hire new coaches. It's because you get a two year 957 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,960 window to be like Archie's like hey, I'm putting in the pack 958 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,480 line and it's like this is a whole new system. 959 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,320 Guys are playing a new system. It's going to take some time and 960 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,160 everybody understands, OK, it's going to take time. 961 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,600 These guys are going to get new system. 962 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,320 So if if, I mean this is a tough spot that we're in because if we 963 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,560 don't change this the the, the underlying system, I'm not sure 964 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,440 outside of faith how you think things are going to get better 965 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,000 If you bring in a point guard. It's like this system doesn't 966 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,680 really allow for point guard. Hard to do things unless you're 967 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,480 Jalen Hood Shafino. He had to do it completely on 968 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,160 his own. But if you're going to change 969 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,640 the system, I I think we'd all be like inherently like, yes, I 970 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,520 wish we shot more threes and did that, but it's like now you have 971 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,560 the problem of every time you have a new system. 972 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,000 In basketball, it's normally associated with a new coach. 973 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,440 There's normally A2 year honeymoon period. 974 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,000 You know next year Woodson's not going to have that. 975 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,080 He can't, He can't just be like hey new system get like next 976 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,800 year is a year you have to over perform. 977 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,800 Like if if you come back this type of year or coming in you 978 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,960 know gliding into the the tournament as an 11 seed I don't 979 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,440 think would cut it. So it's like you don't have the 980 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,360 luxury of any complaints that you have to put in a new system 981 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,600 and have it completely fully functional on day one and firing 982 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,680 at pretty much all cylinders. There have been circumstances 983 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,920 where these things have turned around but it is required other 984 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,600 changes. So Northwestern is probably the 985 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,920 best example of this where things that really gone off the 986 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,800 rails for Chris Collins. You know, I mean they they had a 987 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,840 straight they they made the tournament in 2017 and then over 988 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,440 the course of the next four years they won 15 games, 13 989 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:40,480 games, eight games and nine games and and then they won 15 990 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,240 games last year. You know. 991 00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:44,200 But keep in mind they had players transferring out 992 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,360 including Miller Cop being one of those players that 993 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,120 transferred out. There were several others and 994 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,600 Collins had to go higher. Chris Lowry to be like a 995 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,120 specialist on the bench to basically like take, I think it 996 00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,760 was the defense off of his hands and it's largely worked or at 997 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:02,960 least at large they work last year. 998 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,240 The defense hasn't been as good this year, but they've they've 999 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,560 compensated in other ways and they made the tournament last 1000 00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,840 year as a seven seed and made the second round, which is a big 1001 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,720 deal, a place like Northwestern. I guess the the point here is 1002 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,720 yes, you've either got to, you've either you've either got 1003 00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:21,920 fundamental change because your competition's dealing with that 1004 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,520 or you've got more incremental change. 1005 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,880 But it's like OK, the the, the facade of the building isn't 1006 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,400 going to be different, but the the, the floor layout has to be 1007 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,280 completely different and someone else is in charge of that 1008 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,880 internal architecture. That's then, you know, kind of 1009 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,680 wrap this up because I don't know how much we can belabour 1010 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,240 the same point over and over again. 1011 00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:47,320 But ultimately it's like for for donors. 1012 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,440 And this is where I think you do have to keep this in mind in the 1013 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:55,720 nil era for donors, for fans to to have this season going not 1014 00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:59,400 just the way that it's going, but to have it mirror so many 1015 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:04,200 February's and late January's and recent IU basketball 1016 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,080 history. We we feels like we see this all 1017 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,320 the time now with IU. It happened in with Crean. 1018 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,000 It happened with Miller. It's happening with Woodson now. 1019 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,400 It happened with Woodson in his first year and this year where 1020 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,760 the team just falls apart down the stretch, they cease getting 1021 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,520 better. You know they they they had one 1022 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,760 really two seasons out of that stretch where they kind of 1023 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,280 pulled it together at the end and figured out a way into the 1024 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,520 tournament conversation. They didn't actually make the 1025 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,040 tournament in 2020, but nobody did. 1026 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,200 Like after a point that just that that can't be how you do 1027 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,800 things. And I do wonder to some degree 1028 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,440 how much patience is he's even left in the reservoir and I 1029 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,000 don't think it's unfair for fans at this point to have finally 1030 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,400 gotten to the point where they they just feel like this is not 1031 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,200 working for me. This is not providing me with 1032 00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:00,280 anything that brings me joy or excitement. 1033 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,680 It's a chore to watch the team. It's a chore to kind of see the 1034 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,600 same thing happening over and over again. 1035 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,640 So yeah, I mean and I will say as as a the. 1036 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,400 Varsity Club member here. As a donor, at some level, you 1037 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,800 know it. That's where I go back to the 1038 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,200 you know it. It's those those years in the 1039 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,400 early Korean era, you know, we went through it, but it's like 1040 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,240 the there was never a price break. 1041 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:25,280 There was never, it was always the same. 1042 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,960 And I think that's where it gets frustrating. 1043 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,840 And I I will say this as a season ticket holder for 25 plus 1044 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,920 years, it's like. Less about. 1045 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,240 Even the wins and losses, like I just, it's it it. 1046 00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:39,560 I don't want to go into Assembly Hall in those kind of bummer 1047 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:40,600 atmospheres. It's not fun. 1048 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:45,000 Like I just, I didn't go to you know, the last the Nebraska 1049 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,360 game, partially because it's like I knew it was probably not 1050 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,800 going to be a great result. But I also kind of felt like the 1051 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,120 vibes are getting bad. Like I I really don't want to go 1052 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,840 to the next two games because I don't want to be there if people 1053 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,440 are booing and are pissed off. Like that's not a fun 1054 00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:58,520 atmosphere. I don't want to do it for a 1055 00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,920 whole year next year. Like that's as A and I'm not 1056 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,440 going to get rid of my tickets. But you you do start to look at 1057 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,480 like this just and like you said, it's just that that's 1058 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,920 where I do think it's important. The long tail history of this 1059 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,640 is, you know, if you're giving money year over year over year, 1060 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,120 at some point it's like, look, I'm, I've been doing this for 25 1061 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,640 years and you know, maybe it's time for someone else to give 1062 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:20,960 some money and I'll go give my money. 1063 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,880 Being money is a finite resource, as we all know. 1064 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:25,560 It's like there's not unlimited supplies. 1065 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,720 I can put my money to work in a lot of different areas. 1066 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,120 There does come a point where it's like, look, I I'll come 1067 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:33,920 back when you guys have figured this out. 1068 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,160 And I'm not saying I'm going to, I'm not saying I'm doing that. 1069 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,240 I definitely see a. Lot of I can see a. 1070 00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:41,840 Lot of people being like and that's you know this is where it 1071 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,160 kind of becomes a spiral problems like that's where 1072 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,240 Indiana can lose some of its nil powers. 1073 00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:49,200 Like a lot of people and a lot of people I know who are donors 1074 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:50,960 who are in this boat are kind of in that like you know I'm I'm 1075 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,160 just kind of I'm I'm here I'm ready. 1076 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,200 But like you guys figure out your house and get a little more 1077 00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,240 stability and then then I'll I'll lock back in and until then 1078 00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:02,880 I'm going to go put the money in, you know some other form of 1079 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,000 entertainment, an interesting. Spot to be in across the board. 1080 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,640 Well we'll see what happens as we move forward here and and 1081 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,560 it's a it's going to be an interesting week. 1082 00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,280 Indiana has to host Wisconsin who has not looked great but 1083 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,040 they're still 10 and six in the conference. 1084 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,000 They they did have a big win at home versus Maryland that's been 1085 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,800 a that's been a sick team. I mean that team has lost five 1086 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,160 of their last seven. Some of those have been pretty 1087 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,720 close. Couple overtime losses, a home 1088 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,440 loss to Purdue. But man, losing at Michigan, 1089 00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,920 losing at Rutgers. I mean, those are losses along 1090 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,880 the lines of what it would be like to lose at Indiana. 1091 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,080 And if Michigan can pull it together and beat Wisconsin, If 1092 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,840 if Rutgers can pull it together and beat Wisconsin, there's no 1093 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,160 reason why Indiana can't pull it together and beat Minnesota or 1094 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:53,280 beat Wisconsin. But I'll believe it when I see 1095 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:54,640 it. I guess is is kind of where I'm 1096 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,800 at with things. Can I ask, can I ask you a final 1097 00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:57,640 question? Yeah, go ahead. 1098 00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,480 As we go down this stretch. Because. 1099 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,960 If you know the the vibes are bad, I think we can all agree on 1100 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:04,160 that. It's like it's not a great, 1101 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,600 great time. If we win a couple of games, the 1102 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,400 vibes will get slightly better. The tournament, it seems to be 1103 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,960 off the table. But if if we're in, you know 1104 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,600 vibes are still, we've won a game or two. 1105 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:20,080 Like I want to ask you, you know does does it if we get an NIT 1106 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,240 berth I, you know inherently I think the answer is always yes 1107 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,600 you play but there's always that concern. 1108 00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,040 I think this is you know this is the cream thing if like I want 1109 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,800 to play in the NIT, but I don't want to play at home because I 1110 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,720 don't want to deal with bad vibes and like I sell the game. 1111 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,960 You know is is there a world and that that was not a good look 1112 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,800 didn't didn't go well. But I'm just, I'm curious, you 1113 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,080 you study this way more than I do and just kind of your feeling 1114 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,920 like is there a world where if the vibes are subpar, does it 1115 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,080 make sense to just kind of pass on the NIT and not not put 1116 00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,360 yourself in that situation? Or is it really a no brainer 1117 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,120 that if you have an NIT berth, you take it? 1118 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,040 And I'm sorry, I mean. I will say for this season, like 1119 00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:04,840 for this, this year. I would say that if IU wins 1120 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:11,080 enough games to even be in the running for an NIT berth, then 1121 00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,080 the season's ending will be positive because I think they'll 1122 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:18,480 have to win three of their last four to get into the NIT right 1123 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,880 now, which seems unlikely, but that's that. 1124 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,240 I mean that's how bad because it's not just the record, it's 1125 00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:28,360 also the fact that it that Indiana's 103rd now in Ken Palm. 1126 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:29,880 I don't know what they. I haven't even looked at the 1127 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,000 net, but I don't think the net is very good either. 1128 00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,480 I mean there there's a lot of teams that are well ahead of 1129 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,640 Indiana in the NIT pecking order. 1130 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:43,160 Keep that in mind you know and and every conference champion in 1131 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,720 the smaller conferences that doesn't win their automatic bid 1132 00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,120 and that's normally several of them, gets an automatic NIT 1133 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,680 berth. And so Indiana's not even in the 1134 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,120 NIT discussion. They're not close, and to get 1135 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,280 there they're going to have to probably win against three of 1136 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,520 Wisconsin, Maryland, Minnesota, Michigan State with the Maryland 1137 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,920 and Minnesota games being on the road, and probably win at least 1138 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,120 a game in the Big 10 tournament, that seems. 1139 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:15,040 Implausible to me Scott, at this point but so so it's almost like 1140 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,880 yeah you'd at that point I think you'd want to have the NIT 1141 01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,440 berth. I don't even know if you would I 1142 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,840 doubt you'd host because so that would take like I don't think 1143 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,880 they'd be a top four seed in the NIT. 1144 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,680 So that's that's that that's where I'm at with that. 1145 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,480 That let's check back in a week after they've played Maryland 1146 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,960 and see where their records at. But you know, I think that 1147 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,200 luckily, I guess that problem is not actually going to be now. 1148 01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,360 It would get you on a pause. Yeah. 1149 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:44,960 All right. Gotcha. 1150 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:46,880 Yeah. So anyway all. 1151 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,120 Right. Well, positive note. 1152 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,760 There you go. End on that delightful notes to 1153 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,760 end. On we'll go ahead and wrap 1154 01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:55,240 things up. We'll have some more content 1155 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,160 coming for you later on in this week, folks, and we appreciate 1156 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,240 you sticking with us. These are not the fun times to 1157 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,400 be observing IU basketball. These are not fun times to be 1158 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,200 podcasting about IU basketball. So if you stuck with this to the 1159 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:13,160 end here, even if you were just out, like cleaning your shed or, 1160 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,800 you know, getting your lawn mower blades sharpened, we 1161 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,680 appreciate you sticking with it. And certainly I want I want the 1162 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,000 Crimson cast. Extended universe movie where 1163 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,280 you and I are in the alternate timeline where we just we've 1164 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,960 we've won 12 titles we're we're you know we're like Ohio State 1165 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,520 football where it's like we we just pod and it's like man I 1166 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,120 expect us to win every game by 10 and it's like there there's a 1167 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,080 if you believe in the multiverse there's a verse out there where 1168 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,640 a different Scott and Gale and are just like it's like we're 1169 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:40,960 we're like oh dude I forgot about that year we won the title 1170 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:45,120 like Oh yeah we did win a title in 2012 yeah I I so many like I 1171 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,480 forgot we're at 12 championships. 1172 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,240 Miss the that or or never. I've never had that, but I've 1173 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,560 never been able to experience that level of entitlement. 1174 01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,400 That sounds grand. Although it's funny because like 1175 01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,280 every time I read an Ohio State person they sound miserable. 1176 01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:02,960 That's fair. You know they they. 1177 01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,800 I don't know maybe it's just like the nature of being an Ohio 1178 01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,400 State person but they just they just there's not a there's not a 1179 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,680 lot of joy. It's almost like, well now we're 1180 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,000 so concerned with fighting people or you know there's 1181 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,440 there's other fan bases that we could mention where it's just 1182 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,360 like there's there's there's not. 1183 01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,600 I don't know what the there's no ideal spot to be in but this is 1184 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,520 probably the least of the spots to be in like this is because 1185 01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:31,360 you're not bad, bad you you can't revel in your misery all 1186 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:36,120 the time like it like maybe DePaul fans do and you don't 1187 01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:38,560 have the benefit of, hey, we've won multiple titles and we've 1188 01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,320 won multiple national championships. 1189 01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,520 You're just, you know, you're a, you're a distressed asset as 1190 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,120 opposed to just being a bad asset or a successful asset and 1191 01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,520 that in sports is probably the worst thing to be. 1192 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:52,680 I'll put this out to our fans. Maybe we just. 1193 01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,480 Like we'll we'll create a an alternate like a fan fiction. 1194 01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,120 Just let let's have somebody else write the last 20 years and 1195 01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,200 you and I can do a podcast about that. 1196 01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,080 We'll just, we'll live in our alternate reality. 1197 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,680 And it's like, yeah, what happened to Galen and Scott? 1198 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,720 Like oh, they've they've completely lost their marbles. 1199 01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,400 They're they're podcasting about a world that doesn't exist, that 1200 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,440 this is, this is a different. MLM scheme that you've come up 1201 01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,880 with now I love. This is great. 1202 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,280 So now now we're selling fanfic in addition to VIP episodes, 1203 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:22,600 tremendous stuff. Anyway, thank you to all of you 1204 01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,080 for listening. As always, thanks for 1205 01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:25,480 representing sponsor Home Field apparel. 1206 01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,240 Thanks to the rest of the back home network. 1207 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,320 Be sure to check out all of the shows and content across the 1208 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,120 network and subscribe on YouTube, follow on social, so on 1209 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,440 and so forth. So for Scott, I'm Galen, This is 1210 01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,680 Crimson Cast. Thanks for joining us, folks. 1211 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:41,800 We will catch you on the flip side. 1212 01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,680 Bring back the Bison. So long, everybody.