1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,320 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:22,320 Field Apparel. Hello and welcome to Crimson 3 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,080 Cast, GAIL Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining you. 4 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:30,040 It is Sunday morning. February 11th, Super Bowl 5 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,080 Sunday, Scott Happy Super Bowl Sunday. 6 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,960 I I know you are the Taylor Swift. 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,120 Super Bowl. The Taylor Swift. 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,040 Yes. Well, if you stick around till 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,440 the end of the podcast, you folks will get a a sneak preview 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,960 of a theory that I have about Taylor Swift and media exposure 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,520 that actually touches on some other things as well. 12 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,960 And I I want to. We'll just unleash that. 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,600 Normally, that'd be AVIP video, but I think we can unleash it on 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,760 the general population today because I want to play like the, 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,360 like the, you know, the Charlie, the Charlie meme of, like him 16 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,520 from, you know, it's sunny in Philadelphia, all the strings. 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,400 Because I want to see how you can connect Taylor Swift. 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Like, I just want to throw out three things like Swift and Mike 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,080 Woodson and like Jim Harbaugh. Can you connect all of those? 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,680 Things. I don't think I'm going to go 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,520 that direction today, but we'll see. 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,800 We'll see where things take us. Hard to say at this point. 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,440 Anyway, it's good to have you folks joining us once again as 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,160 we'll be talking Indiana basketball today. 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,400 I I still owe everybody a football podcast or or we do. 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,560 We've got some folks that I'm lining up to talk football more 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,880 in depth over the course of the next couple of weeks as that 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,680 looks like that may be the most exciting thing for us to talk 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,960 about as we move forward. So first of all, just a reminder 30 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,200 that we are part of the back home network. 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,240 You should check out all of the shows on the back home network 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,160 across the board. Assembly Call still plugging 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,720 along this, you know one of the reasons why we don't do post 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,640 game podcasts, Scott, is to avoid having to talk immediately 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,480 after losing, losing, losing by 20 to your archrival. 36 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,440 But Assembly Call does, and so you want to tune into them after 37 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,280 every IU game plus Assembly Call radio on Thursday evenings. 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,040 You've also got to doing the work podcast Big Game for IU 39 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,120 today as they take on Purdue and Assembly Hall in women's 40 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,960 basketball. We've got Film Room with Tony 41 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,200 Adrania. We've got Exes and Joes with Bob 42 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,600 and Mike and a bunch of other things under the sun. 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,360 All that brought to you by Home Field apparel, your place to go 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,560 for the finest in college fashion. 45 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:40,120 They just dropped a new collection for IU in particular, 46 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,440 some great stuff. We told you about it on the show 47 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,560 earlier this week. Hopefully you got in there and 48 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,640 ordered. I'll tell you that Indiana Hyper 49 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:49,920 Crew Neck was that's my favorite. 50 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,640 It's both awesome. But again I'm I'm just kind of, 51 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,720 I'm always fascinated as someone whose office was in the Hyper 52 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,240 building for many years here. The building itself loses a lot 53 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,520 of luster once you get out of the basketball court area. 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,520 But it is amazing how much of A cultural touchdown that building 55 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,840 is for anybody that's been at IU that in any way, shape or form 56 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,400 was interested in basketball. So that's on the site. 57 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,960 There's a bunch of other great stuff that came out in that 58 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,400 collection release. Go check it out on home field 59 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:26,280 apparel.com, use the code Home 23 and get 15% off of your first 60 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,160 order. And just a reminder folks, when 61 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,920 you order from home field apparel, they give back in the 62 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:35,680 form of points that you can then redeem towards more home field 63 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,800 apparel in the future. It is. 64 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,040 It's a particular type of of economic relationship that some 65 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,600 of you know. I think it's a, it's a great one 66 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,640 but it's also quad collection might be coming out. 67 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:49,960 You never know. Yeah exactly. 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,120 So anyway home field apparel.com. 69 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,360 Also follow them on social media. 70 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,800 We also would like to remind you we're on sub stack. 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,520 Go to crimsoncast.substack.com and sign up for free. 72 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,440 Get emails with Crimson Cast podcast delivered right to your 73 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,440 inbox. We also have a a light 74 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,440 subscriber option I would say where we send VIP related 75 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,960 materials out to those of you who financially support the 76 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,480 podcast. $50 a year, $5 a month. Your choice. 77 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:25,040 If you don't have to you can always come on in and do things 78 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,600 for for free. Just just sending along things. 79 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,160 So anyway, we are once again talking about Indiana 80 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,400 Basketball. Scott, I I want to just start 81 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:44,480 off by having you discuss what you saw yesterday in this game. 82 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,760 OK we'll we'll start there. I was my God, I'm just pulling 83 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,360 up the the Ken Palm stuff and like the win percentages. 84 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,040 We were never above like 80% to win. 85 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,520 I I watched the game with the Patriots game on the other TV 86 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:00,960 and the Patriots game was a lot of fun. 87 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,000 Halliburton is a heck of a player put on the show at 88 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Madison Square Garden. You know, I it is exactly what I 89 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,120 thought it would be. I had a couple friends over. 90 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,760 I I didn't watch it intently. It's like it's kind of sucks 91 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,000 because like this is normally like IU Purdue. 92 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,920 You get super fired up and like it started pretty well. 93 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,480 You know you had a little bit of lead, yet you knew Purdue was 94 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,800 going to come back and and take it over, which they did. 95 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,680 You know, I was, I was thinking about it this morning as we were 96 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,080 texting about potting. It's like I I feel like I'm in a 97 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,240 weird spot because even in IU football, you and I have gotten 98 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,840 to the point where, you know, you lose these games to Michigan 99 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:40,920 or Ohio State and football and it's like you're annoyed. 100 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,560 And then you and I are kind of annoyed because like at some 101 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,360 point you have to solve this problem. 102 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,160 You can't just lose the same team over and over again. 103 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,800 But on the flip side, it's like game single games. 104 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,840 Like, I don't expect us to beat Michigan in football. 105 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,480 Like it's just like coming in and getting super pissed about 106 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,720 us. Losing in football to Michigan 107 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,960 is kind of stupid. I've never fully bit. 108 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,280 Like, it's weird to be there now in a place with IU bass. 109 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:01,520 I know. Unfortunately we've been there 110 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,040 in the past. You know, the first couple years 111 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,720 of the cream, like, there have been points around there. 112 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,960 It just sucks that, you know, kind of going into this game, 113 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,040 not being fully plugged in because I knew, like, there's 114 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,320 really not a chance for going to win this game. 115 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,080 And it played out pretty much exactly how I thought it would 116 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,200 play out is that, you know, Purdue would impose their will. 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,800 They would take it up and then, you know, I thought it was odd, 118 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,720 sorry, let's say odd. It's like the fact that they 119 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,520 played Edie that long. I'm like, you're just really 120 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,520 caught. It's like I knew Purdue was 121 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,800 going to lay it on because they would and they should and 122 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,280 they're just going to, you know, do it. 123 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,080 But anyway, I leave. I don't really have any deep 124 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,560 thoughts on the game because it's exactly what I expected and 125 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,440 I'm not. I don't really want to analyze 126 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,920 it and be like, here's all, you know, micro it because it's like 127 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,920 I well, it is exactly what I expected. 128 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,200 I just, I hate that. I'm in that position where it's 129 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,280 like it's just a game at Purdue has to be just an automatic L 130 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:53,480 And dude, I know we won there last year, so that's why it's 131 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,000 not like this is some super massive problem, but it's like, 132 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,960 for this season there was really no chance we were winning that 133 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,480 game. Yeah, I mean, look, from a 134 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,440 basketball perspective, this one was pretty easy to diagnose from 135 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,920 the get go. IU was almost certainly going to 136 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,640 come out and have a good first five to 10 minutes of game time. 137 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,520 You know, they were going to, they were going to look engaged 138 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,440 and then substitutes were going to start happening and Indiana 139 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,880 would lose their focus and a couple of bad things would 140 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,240 happen and then that would lead to things kind of rolling 141 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,280 downhill for Purdue. And at that point it would be 142 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,000 over. And that's essentially how it 143 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,160 went. You know, Indiana was getting 144 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,200 abused early by Braden Smith driving to the lane. 145 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,400 They didn't really have an answer in terms of how they were 146 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,440 playing that defensively. And then, you know, the moment 147 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,520 that Khalil Ware picked up his second foul and got auto 148 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,560 benched, it's like, well, this is going to get extended. 149 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:48,840 And that's exactly what happened. 150 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,520 And then Indiana comes out and you know what? 151 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,160 Was it possible that they could have gotten back in the game in 152 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,240 the second-half? I think in other years, sure. 153 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,000 But we've seen this from this team more often than not where 154 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,040 they come out, they make some mistakes, they can't hit shots 155 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,200 and then they just kind of give up. 156 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:14,040 You know, they they really don't have the the mental fortitude in 157 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,360 terms of how they've demonstrated it on the floor 158 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,960 over the course of this season to be able to handle situations 159 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,720 where things aren't going well. You know, we've we've seen an 160 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,720 occasional version of that be different. 161 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,560 We saw it obviously in the Ohio State game earlier this week. 162 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,960 But I think it's important to keep in mind that Ohio State 163 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,080 team is really bad. You know they they were they had 164 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,799 to come back and win in double overtime to beat Maryland at 165 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:40,200 home. I mean you know they they could 166 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,320 have easily lost that game yesterday. 167 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,600 So nothing about the game was surprising. 168 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,200 And you know the maybe the only surprising thing was that CJ 169 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,640 Gunn hit some shots not, you know none of the shots happened 170 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,720 at a time when it mattered. But it was good to see CJ Gunn 171 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,440 you know lead the team in scoring go 3 for four from three 172 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,520 that was that was nice. But everything else was pretty 173 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,440 much what one might have expected. 174 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,960 Malik Renew, clearly. I mean, had, you know, after 175 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,480 having one of the best games that he's ever had in IU 176 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,640 uniform, had one of the worst games that he's ever had in IU 177 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,040 uniform last night. But I think to me, the 178 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:23,080 overriding problem with the game was just how engaged Purdue was 179 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,320 emotionally with each other, with the game. 180 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,800 They they really looked like they had a singular focus. 181 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,760 They had an energy about them and Indiana, while there were 182 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,920 some good individual plays, just looked like they lacked any kind 183 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,280 of team cohesion. You know that there was there. 184 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:45,080 There were no plays that look like they were adding up to IU, 185 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,600 getting opportunities to score. You know the IT seemed like the 186 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,120 entire game plan was Trey Galloway throwing alley oops to 187 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,200 Khalil Ware, which while you know those were nice, but that 188 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:00,400 was hardly a winning strategy. And defensively, look, I know 189 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Zach Edie is difficult to defend, but we've seen Indiana 190 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,640 teams defend Zac Edie fairly well over the course of the last 191 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,400 two seasons. We've not seen that happen 192 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,800 essentially at all so far this season. 193 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,560 So yeah, I mean, in terms of the game itself, it went about like 194 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,280 what one might have expected it would have gone. 195 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,320 And in this case, I guess I look at it and I say to myself, well, 196 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,280 Indiana did what we thought that they would do. 197 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,520 And that ends up being the problem because the expectation 198 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,960 at this point is that that's the kind of performance that you're 199 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,280 going to get out of this team. And they've lost five of their 200 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,920 last seven and they're like two kind of lucky minutes of 201 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,960 basketball away from having lost seven out of seven. 202 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,760 That's that is a significant issue. 203 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,080 And that is something that I think is really what we have to 204 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,040 focus on for this show. Because when you've lost both 205 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,280 games to your rival and look, produce a fine team, produce 206 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,280 better than last year, you know, Purdue looks like they might get 207 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,480 to the second weekend of the NCAA tournament. 208 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,040 You know, the first game, yeah, you know there, but. 209 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:11,640 But just because Purdue is really good, doesn't give IUA 210 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,120 license to not show up. And the fact that you lose both 211 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:21,000 games to Purdue by a combined 41 points for the, you know, and 212 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,120 you lose both games by 20 for the first time since the 1930s 213 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,280 really I think illustrates the core issue here with this team, 214 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,400 which is that there does not appear to be any level of like, 215 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,280 you know, team unity or pride in terms of how they're playing on 216 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,720 a night by night basis. I mean Trey Galloway came out in 217 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,360 the post game press conferences like, well, we lost our energy, 218 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,280 we lost our focus. It's like this is Purdue that 219 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,560 you're playing, this is your, this is your archrival, this is 220 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,960 a team that waxed you on your home floor a couple of weeks 221 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,720 ago, and you can't maintain your energy and focus in that 222 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,440 environment. I mean that that to me, you 223 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,320 know, as much as there's this discourse around IU basketball 224 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,760 and what direction it's going and the concerns about things, 225 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,560 that to me is a huge red flag. Not just because we clearly saw 226 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,360 it in this game and we clearly saw it in the first game, but 227 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,480 we've seen it in several other games so far this season out of 228 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,240 this IU team, particularly in the Big 10, but also against 229 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:28,480 Auburn, also against UConn. This is a team that just often 230 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,200 times looks like it either doesn't know what it's supposed 231 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,600 to do or doesn't really want to be there doing it. 232 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,640 That's a culture problem, Scott, and that is a problem that I, 233 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,120 you know, we keep hearing from Mike Woodson in these post game 234 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,640 press conferences. Well, you know, we just got to 235 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,400 get over the hump. You know, we got to keep 236 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,000 working. It's like what you need to be 237 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,960 working on is the culture of your team. 238 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,320 Like where is the fight? And don't point to the Ohio 239 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,560 State game when that Ohio State team, you know, looks like they 240 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:55,320 don't want to be on the floor with each other either. 241 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,160 Like, where's the fight against good teams? 242 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,480 Where's the fight in the, where's the pride? 243 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,280 You know for for all of this talk about IU basketball and and 244 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,080 its historical relevance and how it's supposed to be this special 245 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,920 program, where's the pride in in how the the group is playing 246 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,160 collectively? Where's the pride from the 247 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,200 people who are are coaching the team in terms of what is being 248 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,440 put out on the floor. It just looks insanely 249 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,280 pedestrian, Scott, and and this is a team that on any given 250 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,720 night looks like the worst team in the conference. 251 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,320 And it's not because of the talent, it's because there 252 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,880 doesn't seem to be any kind of central motivating factor 253 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,560 amongst the players most of the time. 254 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,120 Yeah, well one one thing with the with the post game comment, 255 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,680 you know, you picked up on this on Twitter too. 256 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:41,960 I think I'm going to get the quote here from Woodson. 257 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,400 We got to continue to grow as a team. 258 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,080 We're going to have to add some pieces and like that. 259 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,800 That's an odd comment because it's like you joked, I'm 260 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,760 stealing your joke on Twitter. It's like there's no like 261 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,480 February trade deadline. Like it's like there is in the 262 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,680 NBA. Like this is where it's like 263 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:57,360 Mike, we are not in the NBA. Like, we're not going to be able 264 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,800 to, you know, get rid of Buddy Hield and do something else like 265 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,600 they're like, and it's just an odd thing to say because it's 266 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,680 like, all right, so are you just giving up on this year, Like 267 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,160 because when you add pieces in college, it's the end of the 268 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,120 year. So are you just saying we don't 269 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,080 have the pieces? And it's funny, I was with a 270 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,200 couple friends last night watching the game who aren't as 271 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,560 plugged in. And I do think what's kind of 272 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:23,280 masking some of this for just kind of the average fan is the 273 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,240 record isn't awful like 14 and 10. 274 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,800 They're looking like, oh, you know, you're still like almost 275 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,400 500. The Big 10, like you have a soft 276 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,240 schedule coming up. And I'm like, no, we don't. 277 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,400 Like First off, we're not good. And secondly like Northwestern, 278 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,520 Nebraska like they're better teams that I know it's not like 279 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920 the name on the front that you're used to but like this is 280 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,160 different and everybody we play the rest of the year is better 281 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,560 than us. And so I I do think as if losses 282 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,600 continue to stack up and we get closer to 14 to 14 and 14 as a 283 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,120 team. I I think the larger collective 284 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,680 might kind of wake up and notice what you and I have been seeing. 285 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,080 But no I I agree with everything that that you're saying and it's 286 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,880 it is a team that is just been kind of checked out going 287 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,280 through the motions and then they have moments where they 288 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,800 click in and I said it last night with my buds and I'll say 289 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,880 it again here that. That this is not one of those 290 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,240 years where it's like we just don't have the talent. 291 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Like I will go back to the offseason again. 292 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,240 You got one of the just let's not argue about it. 293 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,960 You got one of the top five or top three players in the portal. 294 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,080 You got that guy. You got a five star recruit to 295 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:35,320 recommit from Duke to Indiana. Now you know and then you know 296 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,320 like I I throw it in there like you got like a very good Mac 297 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,800 player in Peyton Sparks. It's Peyton Sparks in the 298 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,800 transfer portal like to me And you're you're pairing that up 299 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,080 with two you know 5th and 6th year guards. 300 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,880 One of them got injured and another five star big man that's 301 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,680 a ton of talent and that's a really great portal year and so 302 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,320 I get really frustrated when it's just like oh we got to do 303 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,440 some more in the portal next year. 304 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,560 It's like you're you basically got an A on the test last year 305 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,480 in the portal you did it really well like you got one of the top 306 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,040 guys, you got a five star recruit, you got a good mid 307 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,640 major player. You're going to do better than 308 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,120 that. Like off of coming off of a year 309 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,600 you expect more players to want to come and you're going to get 310 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,800 two of the top five guys in the the portal. 311 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,120 Like it's like I want to kind of yell at people and what like you 312 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,000 understand Kansas, Duke, like Alabama, they're in the portal 313 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,000 as well like they are offering other players it's not just 314 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,280 Indiana. And so that this is where I get 315 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,760 really concerned. But again I kind of take a step 316 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,120 back. You know we we we beat Purdue 317 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,880 last year at Mackey. It's like this is a massive 318 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,360 trend. It is just a this season thing. 319 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,240 But this season you know back-to-back games against 320 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,080 Purdue you you lose by 20 and you look wildly uncompetitive. 321 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,920 It's tough and I'll just end with this it's like you know the 322 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,960 the Purdue fans were chanting NIT and it's like like that'd be 323 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,440 great. That's like probably not 324 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,480 happening. Can you make that happen please 325 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,880 like that would be awesome. I'm in. 326 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:01,320 Done. Go make it right now. 327 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,240 Thank you, Mackey. Yeah, I know the the NIT chant 328 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,160 was funny, mostly because it was aspirational as opposed to 329 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,280 insulting. You know, our our friend Matt 330 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,200 Blaska had some some stats this morning for me in the In five of 331 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,440 the last seven games, IU has fallen behind by 18 or more 332 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,480 points. That's awful. 333 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,200 That really is terrible. And I mean, you can even take it 334 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,599 a a different direction if you wanted to, you know, because in 335 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,960 that Iowa game, at one point Indiana was up 31 to 15 and Iowa 336 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,840 came back and tied that game at 66 in the closing minutes. 337 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,440 You know, So it's it's been one of those stretches of play where 338 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,640 you go back to the Rutgers game and you know, the the best, the 339 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,000 best performance I guess was the 15 to two run that they had 340 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,560 against Minnesota in the second-half of of that game that 341 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,640 they played at Assembly Hall, you know, But even that Indiana 342 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,480 at one point was at 56 to 35 and Minnesota clawed all the way 343 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,440 back and I think got within, you know what they they got within 344 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,360 11 at the end of the game that this is a team that has, they've 345 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,720 not been competitive in a lot of these games. 346 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,880 And even the ones that they have been competitive in, they've had 347 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,280 these huge swoons where they just either forget how to play 348 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,360 with each other or just get bored with prosperity. 349 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,600 In the 10 losses Indiana's had, they've lost by less than 10 350 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,440 only three times and by less than five once again that was 351 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,920 that was from Matt and in the wins that they've had. 352 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,320 I mean I think people when you look at the the overall record, 353 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,880 Indiana's non conference strength of schedule is 200th in 354 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,320 the country. Like this is a this is a bottom 355 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,520 third or close to bottom third strength of schedule. 356 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,440 In the non conference they lost all the games against good teams 357 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,000 that they played and so you know everything that you just said 358 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,360 about the you know looking forward I'm going to get to in a 359 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:05,040 second but this season the wins have largely like the the best 360 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,840 team Indiana's beaten. I guess at this point is I guess 361 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,560 Iowa at home and they did they had to squeak that one out at 362 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,720 the very end. I'm not telling you folks 363 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,080 anything that you don't already know, but it does make you 364 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,480 wonder. Like, you know when when Mike 365 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,960 Woodson's coming out and saying, well, the season's not over. 366 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,320 Yeah, technically that's true. But what have you seen in any of 367 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,320 these games up to this point that would really make you think 368 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,640 that against competition that is trying to get into the NCAA 369 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,080 tournament And, you know, essentially six of the last 370 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,120 seven teams Indiana's playing are in that boat. 371 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,600 Penn State, who Indiana lost to, is the one exception to that. 372 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,200 You know, where do you see Indiana pulling it together and 373 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,280 playing at a level that is going to be commensurate with winning 374 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,080 any of those games? Now, will they win one of them? 375 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,520 Probably just by the the luck of the draw. 376 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,760 But this team does not look like it's headed in the right 377 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,160 direction, even right now. And for all of this talk about, 378 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,880 you know, what we got to keep, we got to keep pulling together. 379 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,320 Yeah, that's true. But what we've seen. 380 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,040 From this team is very little learning over the course of of 381 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,480 this stretch and again it just kind of feels like Indiana is 382 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,080 stuck in this rut where they are destined to get into the heart 383 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,520 of the Big 10 schedule and struggle. 384 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,240 You know, last year was the one year that we didn't see Indiana 385 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,560 do that, but any of the previous seasons that has been the mark 386 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,880 of of IU teams, they they do not have the capacity to pull it 387 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,320 together and and they put themselves in worse and worse 388 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:44,800 positions the further in you get. 389 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,000 One, you know, the stat that I've been monitoring and we're 390 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,440 now over the Rubicon, you know, the the 15 point losses. 391 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:59,120 Archie in his career, his four year is his last three years or 392 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,760 sorry, his first three years. Sorry, sorry, I'll get this 393 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,680 right. His first three years Archie had 394 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,320 1415 point losses, but in 3rd year he only had three of them. 395 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,520 20 to Wisconsin, 16 to Maryland, 24 to Michigan. 396 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,440 This now gives Mike Woodson in his first three years 20 losses 397 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:21,360 that are over 15 points and right now he has 12345 this 398 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:26,480 season 5 losses over 15 points with a doozy a 28. 399 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,200 That's the largest. Well, Archie had won 28 loss to 400 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,600 Tennessee Tech that that doesn't, that doesn't age well. 401 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,200 But you have a 28 against you know against Auburn. 402 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,480 The the thing that I continue to go back to for this season is 403 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,760 everything you're saying is right. 404 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,280 All stuff Blaska saying is right. 405 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,000 Like the stats are not good. This is not this is not a good 406 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,800 team. And I I kind of get tired of 407 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,320 hearing the like, hey you know you lost a lot last year. 408 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,400 You're going to have dips. It's like that's fine. 409 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,880 You can have dips and you lost. Yes, you can. 410 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:59,160 Two things can be true. Trace Jackson Davis can be 411 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,320 awesome and can leave this team. That doesn't mean that now the 412 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,080 team has to suck. Like this team still has talent. 413 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,560 And I look at it and it's like you again, you got you know, you 414 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,080 got Khalil Ware who is one of the best transfers out there. 415 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720 Then you only other. You only have two other freshmen 416 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,000 on this team. One of them is McKenzie and Baku 417 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,520 who's a five star. The other one is Gabe Cubs, 418 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,520 who's played. All right, everything. 419 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,240 Else oh, you got Don't forget your Kyle Newton who's been out 420 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,360 all season but. All right. 421 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,240 Yeah, but then everyone else is returning and then it's like you 422 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,760 start well, I guess a couple like you know Walker and Sparks 423 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,200 but like everyone else is returning. 424 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,240 Renew stepped up and then you look at it's like all right 425 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,800 well, you know CJ Gunn hasn't played well and it's like, all 426 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,520 right, well, why not He's a sophomore. 427 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,200 Like this is the time to step up. 428 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,360 Like he's not like Caleb Banks just isn't playing anymore. 429 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,720 It's like why not? Like you can't just be like, oh 430 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,560 are are those guys suck and that suck. 431 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,160 It's like it's a down year. Like it doesn't I I will never. 432 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,360 This year does not have to be this bad. 433 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,480 And I think that's what's really frustrating to me is you can 434 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,640 have down years like Michigan states having a down year, 435 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,320 they're probably going to make the tournament. 436 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,160 They just beat Illinois at home like they are not having the 437 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,240 year they expected to have. It is not a complete dumpster 438 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,720 fire crash and burn. Just you know, every having, you 439 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,960 know, things that haven't happened in 90 years to your 440 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,440 rival. That to me is what's really 441 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,760 rough when again you we were saying it this offseason, this 442 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,920 is the most number of five star players you've had on an IU team 443 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,440 in like 15 years. So the talent is there. 444 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,920 The talent is 100% there. And when you look across the 445 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,200 board, it's like we talked about in one of our last pods, like 446 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,920 Gabe Cubs was a higher recruit than Braden Smith. 447 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,160 I'm not saying that that matters, but it's like, again, 448 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,640 you can't you to me, you can't use that argument like we just 449 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,320 didn't have the talent OR this didn't work out. 450 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,520 And then you can't just say, all right, the Xavier Johnson 451 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,640 injury, like that's the entire reason this season fell off the 452 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,040 rails. So I I'm just that's where I'm 453 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,080 very frustrated because I just I don't understand why it has to 454 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,360 be this absolutely bad. It it doesn't. 455 00:23:54,360 --> 00:24:00,400 And I think a lot of the angst for IU fans right now above and 456 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,880 beyond this season which is angsty enough, like the the 457 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,440 results have not been sufficient. 458 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,400 They've not been acceptable and and you know losing to Purdue 459 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,960 both times that way. You know the the way that this 460 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,480 team performed at home against Penn State, the way that they 461 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,440 performed in those games against Connecticut and Auburn. 462 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,480 I mean, there have been plenty that IU fans have had to swallow 463 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,440 this year that have not been acceptable, that have just to 464 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,680 some degree. I think you know the the 465 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,880 answer's been well, Indiana was good last year, so why are you 466 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,240 complaining, which is which is nuts given the profile that 467 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,280 Indiana likes to carry itself at in men's basketball. 468 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,520 But I think a lot of the source of angst right now beyond even 469 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:46,120 what you talked about is there's not a lot to get excited about 470 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,560 as far as the next year. I mean if you take a hard look 471 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,720 at the roster for the for next year, there's a good chance that 472 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,160 Indiana's only got maybe six or seven players coming back. 473 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,440 I mean there's not really, there's a little bit of a 474 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,840 nucleus and that is entirely dependent on Malik Renew 475 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,880 returning, which I think he probably will. 476 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,160 But there's just, you know, you're you're banking on, oh, 477 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,720 there's a McDonald's All American coming. 478 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,800 That's great. That's, as we've talked about, 479 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,240 that's the only person that's that we know is coming to 480 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,920 Bloomington. And the idea that you're going 481 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,400 to go get a guard or two in the portal and everything will be 482 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,680 fine. I mean, that's been kind of the 483 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,480 argument, but the roster is setting itself up to need a lot 484 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,920 more than that in order for Indiana to like not just not 485 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,040 just have a roster that they can field, but retool the team to 486 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,760 get to a level of competitiveness. 487 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,320 That's what I don't even know what level of competitiveness 488 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,960 people are looking at for the upcoming year. 489 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,680 I mean is it like, oh, they'll go back and play like they did 490 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,760 in 20/22/23? That seems unlikely unless like 491 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,560 every single thing breaks, right? 492 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,760 And you know, the the entire foundation of the program just 493 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,000 feels incredibly shaky right now. 494 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,360 You know, you're going to either have to retain and count on a 495 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:10,120 bunch of players this season who are not performing for next 496 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,960 year, or you're going to have to go out and get almost an entire 497 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,600 new roster of players to go along with the couple of players 498 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,280 that are contributing regularly this year And. 499 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,160 Or you're going to need players to take immense leaps. 500 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,240 I mean, we've talked a lot about some of the different players in 501 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000 the things that they've had to do so far this season. 502 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,000 And I think the thing that has concerned me as the season has 503 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,960 gone on is that partially due to injury but largely due to the 504 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,280 system that's being played. You're just not seeing a huge 505 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,600 amount of development in a lot of the players that you need to 506 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,320 get development out of, not just to help this year go better, but 507 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,920 to get going next year and and have a nice foundation. 508 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,120 I mean, you know, I feel bad for Gabe Cups on the one hand 509 00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:04,400 because he's had to do so much, but he's also just still not 510 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,680 able to contribute very much offensively. 511 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,440 You know he's he, he looks very tentative in his shooting and I 512 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,000 think a lot of that is system based as opposed to necessarily 513 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,760 being like Gabe. Cubs is not a good basketball 514 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,520 player. I don't believe that. 515 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,200 You know, we haven't seen Caleb Banks at all lately. 516 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,320 Caleb Banks is on his. He just completed his fifth 517 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:27,080 straight DNPCD, and at least we assume it's a coach's decision. 518 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,040 And in the four games prior to that, Caleb Banks played 5 519 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,080 minutes, one minute, 3 minute and four minutes. 520 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,640 Like he's essentially ceased being a contributing member of 521 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760 the roster. And that's a guy that, just from 522 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,360 a roster numbers perspective, you're like, that's a guy you're 523 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,960 going to need, you know, to to step up. 524 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,240 CJ Gunn's been all over the map. 5 minutes, DNP, 5 minutes, 11 525 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,680 minutes, three points, 7 minutes, no points. 526 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,400 And then last night, 20 minutes, 13 points. 527 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,760 I mean, that's not illustrative of a player that is consistently 528 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,760 developing Peyton Sparks, who they brought in. 529 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,960 I mean, you know, he's gone since the beginning of the year. 530 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,320 DNPD NP3 minutes. DNP 8 minutes, 29 minutes, 2 531 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,640 minutes, 5 minutes. DNP, one minute, 11 minutes, you 532 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,200 know that's a, that's a obviously a player that's only 533 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,400 being used situationally. So if you look at the roster and 534 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,360 you're like, well, if everything's banking on Renew 535 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:28,920 and Embako coming back and I guess Trey Galloway coming back 536 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,720 and then you have to build around that nucleus plus Khalil 537 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,640 Ware or excuse me, not Khalil Ware plus Liam Mcneely, that's 538 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,480 that's still not a foundation that would give me a lot of 539 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,520 confidence as a as a fan and and and as someone who observes the 540 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,880 team, I'm not very confident in it. 541 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,200 And to go back to what you said, what is like, what is the 542 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,920 message to players in the portal after what has been demonstrated 543 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,080 this year from this team? You can go out and get some good 544 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,320 players certainly, but what are they meshing into at this point 545 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,600 and what is the plan? Well, and this is where you 546 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,360 know, style of play and pace of play. 547 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,560 Like these are things that are important for players who want 548 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,560 to play in a fun at, you know, fun atmosphere. 549 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,400 You look at, you know, the NBA style here without, you know, 550 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:16,800 Tyrese Halliburton and the Pacers. 551 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,360 You're getting a lot of buzz with players who are like, I 552 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,920 want to play with that. Like OB Toppin came here because 553 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,200 he wanted to play with Tyrese Halliburton, like Pascal. 554 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,720 Siaka made it very clear he'd like to re sign in Indiana 555 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,600 because he wants to play with somebody like that. 556 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,280 The Pacers play fast pace. They shoot a lot of threes and 557 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,520 they have a system that put guys in good position to score. 558 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,000 This is where you know there's a lot of things conspiring 559 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000 against. It's just, you know, the the the 560 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,400 optics aren't good and that you have a team that plays in 561 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,720 Indiana a glacial pace. You don't shoot a lot of threes 562 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,960 and you the the all of the offenses thus far have been very 563 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,640 post centric and post, you know, heavy. 564 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,200 And so now you're trying to sell to guards like all right you 565 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,240 know if you look at if you're a guards like, well tell me who's 566 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,520 been successful, it's like, well, Jalen Hoodschaffino was 567 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,120 you know, successful. He was also a lottery pick. 568 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,040 So if you're a lottery pick you can come here and I guess be 569 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,880 successful. Outside of that, not really. 570 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,680 And like is it fun to play now? You're not going to shoot a lot 571 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:12,800 of threes. You have to put, you know push 572 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,000 the ball into the post a lot and it I don't know what the selling 573 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600 point is for a guard to come out. 574 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,760 And again, I would just you know urge people to look at what 575 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,360 happened and look where we are and look to the future. 576 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,240 This idea of just we have to do better in the portal. 577 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,240 Like you know, we should have gotten more last year. 578 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,880 It's like I I will steadily steadfast say like Mike Woodson 579 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,080 got an A last year on what he did in the portal. 580 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,880 So now and that and that's getting you a team that in the 581 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,840 struggle to make the NIT. So you're saying, you know, to 582 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,000 those fans out there, it's like, so, so you got to do an A+ plus, 583 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,000 like we just have to continue to do better in the portal. 584 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960 And then, you know, isn't that kind of where you get into this 585 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,920 culture problem where guys are trying to fit in? 586 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,000 It's like you can't then next year be like, oh, well, you 587 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,560 know, it's new guys takes another year. 588 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,760 Like this is, you know, the teams that, you know, like TCU 589 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,920 got two top 20 guys in the portal. 590 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,920 But Jamie Dixon has a system there. 591 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,840 He's got a bunch of other guys are plugging into and even that 592 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,320 team's five and five in the Big 12. 593 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,640 It's not like they're tearing it up. 594 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,200 No, I'm I'm with you. But I'm just I'm not sure what 595 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,520 you're selling to guards when you see this play it. 596 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,760 So it's it's not fun for us to watch. 597 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,960 But it's a it's a it's an important thing. 598 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,320 And then you know the last thing I'll say is like when you have, 599 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,920 you know, the the way that the the game is played at Indiana, 600 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,920 it's slow. It's very, you know, dependent 601 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,120 on players making moves. It just, it looks like a coach 602 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,800 who's kind of, I don't want to say it this way, but it just the 603 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,400 optics are it's like someone who doesn't have, you know, modern 604 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,960 basketball styles and kind of are coaching as if they were, 605 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,680 you know, a former NBA coach. But those things are all true. 606 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,640 Like this is where it's tough and I don't know what the sales 607 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,520 pitch is to a young dynamic guard. 608 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,120 And you know, just being frank, I'm not sure if they have the 609 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,240 right pitch because you were pitching Boogie, you know, 610 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,720 Boogie Flan and you didn't get him. 611 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,440 Not saying it's like one guy you don't get, but it's like they've 612 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,960 had a couple of guards they've gone after and they haven't. 613 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,920 Gotten them, Yeah. I mean it's it's just a rough 614 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,880 situation. I mean the the so much of the 615 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,160 problem seems to come down to these two separate things that 616 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,600 both collaborate in a bad way on how Indiana's playing. 617 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,600 And you know, we've talked about this a lot on the podcast and 618 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,320 you know, we've we've tried to grab on to what optimism we can 619 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,840 over the course of the season. But realistically, you know it. 620 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,640 Yes, the there's there's issues with players and there's issues 621 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,040 with the roster and there's issues with roster composition 622 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,080 and there were poor choices made. 623 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,400 There were leaps of faith taken that they're just probably 624 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,760 shouldn't have been and there's been a lack of development. 625 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,640 All of that is true. And then you set aside that and 626 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,880 you also look at the system that's being conducted. 627 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,600 It's both offense and defense and you know on on both ends of 628 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,320 the floor. Indiana is just not able to 629 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,800 measure up against teams that are equal to or better than them 630 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,760 on a given night. And that is that's a real, 631 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,720 that's the fact that Indiana basketball continues to find 632 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,200 itself in this position is just not acceptable. 633 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,360 It's not like that. That is not what the brand of 634 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,400 Indiana basketball is supposed to be. 635 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,000 And it is. And I, you know, I know some of 636 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,520 you are out there listening. It's like it's been that way for 637 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,880 1/4 century. It's like, yes, but the whole 638 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,640 idea is that was supposed to be fixed and addressed Like, you 639 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,280 know, for like, there was supposedly some kind of an issue 640 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,160 in in the previous coaches that was causing that to be the case 641 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,960 and that this was going to fix things. 642 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,800 And what you've gotten instead is, from a stylistic 643 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,760 perspective, a team that shoots the fewest threes of any team in 644 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,520 conference play, you know, has three pointers comprised of the 645 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,760 fewest points in total point distribution of any team in the 646 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,720 conference in conference play. A team that shoots 64% from the 647 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,360 free throw line, which is dead last in the conference, A-Team 648 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,840 that's either gets the ball stolen from it 11% of the time, 649 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,680 which is dead last in the conference. 650 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,679 You know, a team that is pretty good at keeping opposing teams 651 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,520 from shooting well but is terrible about putting opposing 652 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,960 teams on the free throw line, their 12th worst in the 653 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,280 conference there. On offense, this team looks like 654 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,360 it's stuck 15 to 20 years ago, even more so than it did last 655 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,639 year. And on defense, this team just 656 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:29,080 kind of looks disengaged. You know, the thing that sticks 657 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,000 out to me about Purdue, The thing that stuck out about Penn 658 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,800 State, the thing that stuck out about Illinois and and 659 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,360 Wisconsin, back when Wisconsin was still a good basketball team 660 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,920 was the effort and the energy with which those teams played, 661 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,600 especially defensively. And I just don't see that out of 662 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,000 Indiana. And this is, again, not 663 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,800 something unique to Mike Woodson. 664 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,719 It was also very present in the Archie Miller era and to some 665 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,160 degree in the latter end of the Cream era. 666 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,000 But it's a problem that ends up exacerbating the already 667 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,120 existing issues with the roster and the already existing issues 668 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,600 with the style that's being chosen to be played. 669 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,200 It's just not working. And Mike, look, at this point, 670 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,880 my feeling is pretty straightforward. 671 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,200 I think if you're still, like heavily emotionally invested in 672 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,000 this team this year, there's not going to be a lot of rewards for 673 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,400 you. And the problem is that that has 674 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,760 LED a lot of people to become emotionally disinvested. 675 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,320 And that's kind of how I felt last night watching this team 676 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,320 play. You know, like you, there was, 677 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,400 there were no surprises in store as far as I was concerned about 678 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,840 how this game was going to go, which made it an odd watch 679 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,560 because I was just like, well, let's see, you know, maybe 680 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,440 they'll upset expectations and they'll spring a surprise. 681 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,640 And when they didn't, it was like, oh, well, here we go 682 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,240 again. You know, we've had so many 683 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,200 complaints about IU basketball over the years being in exactly 684 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,600 this spot. It is just baffling how you 685 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,000 know, coach after coach, different different approaches, 686 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,040 different people being hired. This seems to be the default 687 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,280 mechanism now for IU basketball. And that is really depressing. 688 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,800 And I keep hearing what we got to get this fixed, we got to do 689 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,360 this is that it's not getting fixed. 690 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,000 And I think you can make an argument now that it's like 691 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,360 you've you've run out of time to fix it because you get a week 692 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,200 off and then you've got essentially this huge run of 693 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,840 games, the, you know, the the final six games of the season 694 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,400 and they're all like right after each other. 695 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,400 There's like two or three games or three, two or three days 696 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,840 between every game. Three of them are on the road. 697 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,280 You know, this could get really bad because I've I don't see 698 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,680 where this team is suddenly going to start pulling it 699 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,480 together. If you can't give effort and 700 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:51,240 competitiveness and show fire against Purdue, a team that blew 701 00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:54,320 you out by 20 points a couple of weeks earlier, what is your 702 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,160 motivating factor for playing hard against like Nebraska or 703 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,560 Maryland or Minnesota down the road? 704 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,840 I I don't know what, like, it would be perverse if those games 705 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,240 got you fired up, but the Purdue game didn't, and I think you 706 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,080 know that to me. Again, it goes back to the 707 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,640 culture issue. That is a real concern and I 708 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,160 don't see that getting fixed, and I hope I'm wrong. 709 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,880 I hope that there's some rabbit that Woodson and the staff pull 710 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,800 out of their hat. But this seems like the team, 711 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,400 this is the team is on the floor as they say, right? 712 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,120 The IT is can I I'm just going to go back one more thing to 713 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,600 like how how you get the the guards in here that we need like 714 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,120 you look at last year's portal. Maybe one of the top guards in 715 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,120 the portal was LJ Cryer, who went to who went to Houston. 716 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,680 This year he's he's 68 for 183 from three points. 717 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,160 So he's gone out and shot 183 threes. 718 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,160 This year Indiana as a team has shot 367. 719 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,920 So he's effectively shot half as many threes by himself as 720 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,720 Indiana has a team. If he came to IU, he, if you 721 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:01,360 look at it, if you're him, it's like, all right, well, you know 722 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,040 Mackenzie and Bacco this year has shot 99 threes so far this 723 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,240 year. Like, I want to come in and 724 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,360 shoot 250. Am I going to be able to do 725 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,960 that? You look at this offense like 726 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,320 I'm not sure I could do that and I just think that's going to be 727 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,000 the problem as you sell that to other guards. 728 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,400 But no, the the disengagement thing you're talking about is 729 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,640 tough. And I I, I it's real. 730 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,880 I feel it too. I'm kind of just like I'm I'm 731 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,960 not as engaged with this team. Who cares what Scott, you know 732 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,520 for for Scott. But I think it's it's kind of 733 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,200 catching the the fan base. And you know the last thing I'll 734 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,480 say is this, you know, it's it's parroting something you said, 735 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:35,800 but kind of two different prongs. 736 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,600 You know the whole idea of hiring a former night guy was 737 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,600 that you know what what you had under night was you had 738 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,840 something special. You had a culture and you had 739 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,000 this. You know, we're not going, you 740 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,640 know, we're going to protect homecourt and we're going to 741 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,360 play a certain way. We're going to play with pride, 742 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,360 you know, the whole thing with the names not in the back, the 743 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,960 names in the front. And then to come in and just see 744 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,800 us get, you know, continually pounded and have games where we 745 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,480 look, you know, mentally not checked in, it's like. 746 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,880 What this was? The whole thing of bringing you 747 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,960 night guys to try and bring, if none of that is there, then what 748 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,960 do we have? The other piece is, you know I 749 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,920 don't want to make this an age, just we talked about it the 750 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,680 other the other time. It's like kind of like if your 751 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,040 team's doing well, age doesn't matter. 752 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,840 If you're not doing well, age becomes an issue. 753 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,040 But you know the same thing I will say for Cignetti and 754 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,120 football as we as we hire Woodson is like when you hire a 755 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,960 coach who's in his late 50s, early 60s, you're not doing 756 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,240 something that's a 15 year turn around like you don't have the 757 00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:35,320 time that you gave, you know Tom Crean, it needs to be a 758 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,680 relatively quicker fix. The world has changed in college 759 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,520 basketball with the transport, parole you can do quicker fixes. 760 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,720 And I think this is also the the frustrating part and especially 761 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:47,920 if next year you have struggles is it's like with what's in like 762 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,520 dude the whole thing wasn't like this wasn't supposed to be a 763 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,600 five year teardown. Like we don't have a a 12 year 764 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,440 runway to suddenly get good in nine years and then we can bra 765 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,040 for the races. Like that was kind of why I 766 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,480 always said like I felt like you could give Archie a little bit 767 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,960 more time is like if he got it figured out. 768 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:09,040 You do now have your coach for the next 25 years you're not 769 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,320 going to have that. And so this is where I also get 770 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,240 a little bit like pre frustrated is with people who are like I 771 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:17,720 just give it a little more time. It's like I I the whole point 772 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,960 here was it wasn't going to be time. 773 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,800 You were going to kind of be able to figure it out and plug 774 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,800 and play and start moving up the escalator and not just have it 775 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,280 completely drop off. Well, yeah, I mean, I think part 776 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,360 of the issue is you knew coming in you might only get Trey, Trey 777 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,800 Jackson Davis for another year, right? 778 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,960 You knew coming in you were going to have to make some 779 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,720 immediate fixes to the roster because you had some people 780 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,160 leaving. And look, I, I, Woodson made 781 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,560 some good moves to to make sure Indiana was more competitive 782 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,800 than they had been in the season before he took over. 783 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,760 What concerns me is that you've had that run of two years where 784 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,160 you had Trace Jackson Davis as your core, as your your aircraft 785 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,200 carrier basically. Well he's gone and for all the 786 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,200 people who are like you know, you got to give Wood some time 787 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,080 to do XY or Z. My concern is like there was a 788 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,040 two year runway to get ready for the moment when Trace Jackson 789 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,480 Davis wasn't going to be on the floor. 790 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,600 There was a point, there was a two year runway to figure out, 791 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,760 OK, here is how, here is our identity. 792 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,040 Here is the culture of Indiana basketball. 793 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,840 Here's how things are going to get done. 794 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:30,080 And you know the that that couldn't survive the graduation 795 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:35,520 of Jackson Davis and I guess race Thompson and and Miller Cop 796 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,320 that that all of that seemed to go away and don't give me Jalen 797 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,840 Chaffino. As great as Jalen Chaffino was 798 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,880 he was a freshman. Like there's only a certain 799 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,960 amount of culture enforcement that's coming there. 800 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,680 Like where is it now? Why why does this team look like 801 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,320 it's it's soul was kind of departed after that left with no 802 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,080 with no real underpinning. I mean, you're going to get ups 803 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,000 and downs with college basketball programs. 804 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:05,240 But as we talked about last time, the the down for Indiana 805 00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:09,000 should have been like the season that Minnesota's having right 806 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,240 now. Or the state or this. 807 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,160 I I use Michigan State as a prime. 808 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,440 Exam. Yeah, or Michigan State. 809 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,280 I mean the the idea that that Indiana would be in the spot 810 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,240 that they're in right now, where they're outside the NCAA 811 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:23,480 tournament window, they're outside the the, the NIT just 812 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,760 seems kind of implausible if there's a trajectory of success 813 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,720 going on with the. Program losses, but just, you 814 00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:34,280 know, the the, the knucklehead kind of plays like it's just the 815 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,320 way they play with a the the flagrant fouls, the technicals 816 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,440 like just do that stuff. It's like, where is that? 817 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,840 Inner culture, well, this is the but see and this is where I 818 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,640 think this is hard. And I'm sorry for those of you 819 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,920 who have heard parts of this before, it's like we're kind of, 820 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,960 we're doing that. We never prepare before these 821 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,360 podcasts. We're just kind of doing it on 822 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,520 the fly. And sometimes things, sometimes 823 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,760 things come out and it's like, oh, I hadn't thought about that 824 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,320 before. This is one of those for me. 825 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,720 It's like the the I How do I put this? 826 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:07,400 There's clearly effort being given by players, but a lot of 827 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:14,040 times it feels like the effort is in service of a poor idea, 828 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,560 you know? So Trey Galloway is a great 829 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,480 example of this. Trey had a, you know, great game 830 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,120 at Ohio State. He had a good start to this 831 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,880 Purdue game, and then Trey just decided to take it on himself to 832 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,560 try to make all of these plays that ended up in turnovers. 833 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,040 He took a bunch of shots that he shouldn't have taken and I think 834 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,800 to some degree he felt compelled to do that because there is when 835 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,840 when Indiana's first option is defended properly, there doesn't 836 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,760 seem to be a Plan B on most of these things. 837 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,920 You know, we we see Malik Renew do this constantly. 838 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,400 Where Malik Renew is trying to pass out of the post. 839 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,040 He's trying to consider post moves. 840 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,360 You know, when he's getting heavily defended and when teams 841 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,560 are taking him away, he ends up making mistakes because he has 842 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,360 to, because he has to do these high risk, high reward types of 843 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,040 plays in order to even give Indiana a chance at success on a 844 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,320 given possession. And you can kind of go down the 845 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,760 roster on that front. We've talked about Mackenzie and 846 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,600 Baco, who's clearly still learning how to be a basketball 847 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,640 player. He'll try to make plays. 848 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,720 He'll lose his man. He gets benched for it and he 849 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,240 doesn't know what exactly what he is, you know, supposed to do 850 00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:24,800 afterwards. And then he kind of shrinks into 851 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,240 the background. Gabe Cups, I don't know what 852 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,160 Gabe Cups is supposed to do out there. 853 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,200 Gabe Cups assist rate is 10% on the season. 854 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,960 That's horrific for a point guard, especially point guard 855 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,160 that started 13 games. But I don't think Gabe Cups 856 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,480 clearly understands what his role is out there. 857 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,920 I mean, there were possessions where, you know, Gabe Cups would 858 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,480 come down the floor and would just kind of hide in the corner. 859 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,600 Wasn't a shooting threat, you know, there was one, the one 860 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:50,840 pass I think that went over there. 861 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,080 Did he shoot when he caught the ball? 862 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,280 No. He faked, drove in and took a 863 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,560 bad shot from 15. And Bako did that a bunch of 864 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,640 times. So you know this is where the 865 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,520 culture thing is a real problem because it's not like oh all 866 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,840 these guys hate each other and and and hate playing the game. 867 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,200 I don't think that's the case. I could be wrong. 868 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,040 Maybe somebody will will have an evidence to the contrary. 869 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:18,120 But the culture is more like everybody appears to be afraid 870 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,720 of of playing the way that they are supposed to play or that 871 00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:27,600 they can play because the approach being taken by IU from 872 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,080 a strategic perspective doesn't really leave them a lot of 873 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,200 options for victory. And you know, and defensively, I 874 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,520 think it's actually worse because they seem to be adhering 875 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,960 to this very stodgy kind of style of defense that leaves a 876 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,680 lot of shooters open. They've actually gotten kind of 877 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,920 lucky because opposing teams haven't hit a lot of threes. 878 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,440 It could actually be much worse than it has been over the course 879 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,400 of the season. Indiana's opponents in the Big 880 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,120 10 are actually shooting the lowest 3 point percentage of any 881 00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,080 teams in the conference. You know but but they're 882 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,280 allowing the 7th most points from three pointers in the 883 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,480 conference. So like you can kind of do the 884 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,480 math. You know it's it's it's not that 885 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,520 they're, you know, they're making good initial plays then 886 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,640 they give up offensive rebounds there. 887 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,840 There's always something that happens that doesn't seem to be 888 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,560 accounted for and that leads to a lot of frustration from 889 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,200 players. And it ends up leading to a team 890 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,560 that looks unmoored from success. 891 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,160 Because there does not appear to be, you know, evidence in their 892 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,160 eyes that what they're going to go out and do is actually going 893 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,880 to lead to success at the end of the game. 894 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,400 And that that's. Unmoored from success is the 895 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,080 name of the. Podcast Unmoored from success? 896 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,240 Yeah, so you know, again, many of you have probably heard most 897 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,360 of this already. I don't know if we're covering 898 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,440 any particularly new ground, but you know, what concerns me is in 899 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,760 a game like Purdue, you know who's a superior opponent? 900 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,240 It shouldn't. I mean, if Northwestern can go 901 00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:58,680 into West Lafayette and take Purdue to overtime, it feels 902 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,000 like Indiana could at least keep it within 10. 903 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,040 I don't think that that's a huge ask. 904 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,800 And yet it seems to be for this vintage. 905 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:11,640 And the concern really is what's the future look like for IUI 906 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,400 mean this season. Indiana really can't afford to 907 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,000 lose like 7, you know, the last seven games or six of their last 908 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,160 seven games. I mean, things will get very 909 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:21,920 toxic. They've already gotten toxic. 910 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,000 And then what is, what exactly is the platform for? 911 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,920 Oh, we're going to turn it around next year. 912 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,480 You know, what is the sales pitch that you're going to bring 913 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,400 people in and say, hey, here's IU basketball 202425 this time 914 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,880 it's going to be better. You know, you're you're hold on, 915 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,920 hold on, hold on, hold on. You're asking for a leap of 916 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:45,360 faith from the fan base that you're going to fix it this time 917 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,040 around when you didn't get it right the last time around. 918 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,680 And that I think is a very reasonable thing for fans to be 919 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,320 concerned about. Sorry, Scott, go ahead. 920 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:55,520 Oh, no, sorry. I know. 921 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,280 I. And the other thing that I would 922 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,000 say and I don't want to, I I don't want to speculate, but 923 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,320 it's like the. We've had a, we've had a very 924 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:08,080 good run of for the most part continuity in the in the players 925 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,320 that we have. You know that's the thing that I 926 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,320 I think is the other pieces that like transfers are A2 way door 927 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,760 that you know we just assume like all right you know that guy 928 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,440 will GoPro then renew will come back. 929 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,600 It's like I'm not saying I, I don't want it to happen. 930 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,240 But it's like if if there really is kind of this malaise and 931 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:27,200 people kind of checked out, it's very possible that one of the 932 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,760 guys that you expect is going to be back, they will be in the 933 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,880 transfer portal and they will be out and now you need to replace 934 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,200 that person. And two more people. 935 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,200 Like it is funny. Most people when they talk about 936 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,800 it just like, all right, we're going to bring all this back and 937 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,920 then we just got to add five more pieces like Oh no, this is 938 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,840 a revolving door. And teams that normally teams 939 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,680 that have these kinds of seasons, you normally see a lot 940 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,000 of people picking those guys off and those guys transferring out. 941 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,520 So it could theoretically be even even worse. 942 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,720 But I I, I agree. Like this is a time when you you 943 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:06,440 got to take a stand. You can't just lose out you know 944 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,120 you it it sounds bananas, but it's like you you got to just 945 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,960 keep yourself above. I think it's I I honestly don't 946 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,120 know anymore. I'm assuming you still have to 947 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,480 be 500 to be in the NIT. Like, is it, is it still like, 948 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,200 yes, you have to be 500 to be in the NIT that that is kind of the 949 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,360 goal. Like right now, you know they're 950 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,280 projected on Ken Pond to go 16 and 15, but they're also when 951 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,560 you go game by game, they're projected to lose every game. 952 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,440 So it's kind of like a shrug emoji. 953 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,520 I'm like, well, how you going to get there? 954 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,080 It's like, I don't know. Like, well, numbers say you 955 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,360 could, you got to get to 16 and 15. 956 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,680 You've got to find a way to win two more games. 957 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,880 You have, you know, four of them at home. 958 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:47,880 So that that's not too far of an ask and that gets you in the NIT 959 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:49,960 and that that should be the goal. 960 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:53,000 I think if you don't make that even at this point where we're 961 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,440 moving the goal posts, to me that is just an utter failure of 962 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,440 a season. If you cannot make the NIT. 963 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,000 But you know where when you look at, it's like, I don't know 964 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,800 where the wins are going to come from, you know? 965 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,040 Maybe, yeah. Because I mean all of the teams 966 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,560 on your schedule, with maybe the exception of of Penn still, I 967 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,200 guess Penn State and Maryland are kind of in a weird spot, but 968 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,160 they've all got something to play for. 969 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,360 I mean they they you know they've all got, you know, 970 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,440 Northwestern, Nebraska. They're both fighting for NCAA 971 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,080 bids. You know Wisconsin is trying to 972 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,440 get their season back on track. You've got to play at Minnesota 973 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,920 who who still harbors some ambitions of being in the 974 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,240 tournament. You've got to play Michigan 975 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:33,960 State who's absolutely going to need that game at the end of the 976 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,960 season. It's so I as much as I'm you 977 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,520 know you're not you don't don't cancel the season certainly you 978 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,760 got to play the games out. But I just don't know what 979 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,240 evidence you were leaning on with 13 games played in the 980 00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:50,040 conference and with what's happened over the last seven 981 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,280 games to point forward and say Indiana's going to be OK, 982 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,160 Indiana's going to figure something out. 983 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:01,920 And that really I mean we talked for a while like you know not 984 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,040 making the NCAA tournament while bad is not you know it's not an 985 00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:10,480 an insane set back in as much as we've seen other programs, good 986 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,600 programs like top level programs miss the NCAA tournament and 987 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,000 still be fine. But the difference is most of 988 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,800 those programs when they miss the NCAA tournament have a clear 989 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,920 young nucleus that they are going to be bringing to the 990 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,440 forefront and and that those players needed time that really 991 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,680 doesn't exist on this IU team. And the 2nd, not making the NIT, 992 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,040 not not not doing the North Carolina thing and turning it 993 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,240 down, but like actually not being selected in the NIT, which 994 00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:39,880 is where Indiana is at right now. 995 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,080 That is a real problem and maybe we can preempt that by just 996 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,800 turning it down before we get don't get it offered like we 997 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,920 like if they if they finish like 15 and 16 we're like we we are 998 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,360 going to go ahead and turn down the NIT because we're not 999 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,760 getting just like I turned down you know Grammy parties and 1000 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,840 Oscar parties like Crimson Cast will not be at the post. 1001 00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,160 Post game the Super Bowl post game today. 1002 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,600 We're just letting you guys know right now. 1003 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,120 That's right. We're we're we're going to let 1004 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,520 someone else have that glory. Well you know we don't need it. 1005 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,240 Taylor Swift have our seats at the yeah in the Kelsey booth 1006 00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:14,480 today anyway. Well no it's it's wild. 1007 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,360 Not a lot else to say at this point. 1008 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,840 Indiana gets some time off, which which is a good thing and 1009 00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:24,200 maybe, I guess. Well, it's just, it's just more 1010 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,160 of kind of the same swirling concern. 1011 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,800 I know. I mean, I I look, it's one of 1012 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,720 those things where Indiana got a decent amount of time off 1013 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,840 between the Wisconsin and Illinois games and they did play 1014 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,640 slightly better in that Illinois game, but they still, at the end 1015 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,480 of the day they lost that game by 8. 1016 00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:45,120 You know, is Indiana able to handle business against 1017 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,200 Northwestern after getting seven days off? 1018 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,800 I don't know, because I I I think it's worth noting that if 1019 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,280 you look back over Mike Woodson's first two and 2/3 1020 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,920 seasons, he's yet to beat Northwestern home or away. 1021 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:04,160 That's a real problem, you know, and you look at at Boo Booey and 1022 00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:06,200 Brooks Barnhiser in that whole group. 1023 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,760 Like that's a team that's a team that for all of their flaws and 1024 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,720 they have several flaws. They they do. 1025 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,520 They they know exactly who they are. 1026 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,080 They're a slow paced team that doesn't rebound but doesn't turn 1027 00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:23,360 the ball over, Who shoots threes really well and you know, 1028 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,880 opponents tend to shoot threes. Will it really well against 1029 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,040 Northwestern? But Indiana doesn't shoot threes 1030 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,160 really well against anybody. That's a game that should be 1031 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,800 extra scary for Indiana. And then you got to play 1032 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,960 Nebraska, a team that already boat raced you by 16 points 1033 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,760 earlier in the season and who has been playing pretty well. 1034 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,560 So it's it's daunting times for Indiana right now. 1035 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,120 And I don't know what the solution is at this point, 1036 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,560 Scott, because I feel like if there was a magic solution to 1037 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,680 this, this program's issues, it would have maybe been done by 1038 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:54,760 this point. Like it would have. 1039 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,920 There would have been some kind of of change in approach in the 1040 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,680 games. There would have been some kind 1041 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,200 of a change in approach in terms of substitution strategy or 1042 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,480 mentality. And other than benching a guy 1043 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,680 for a while for reasons that we're not totally sure about, I 1044 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,040 haven't seen a whole lot of change between how this team was 1045 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,080 playing in early November and how this team's playing now. 1046 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,120 And that is probably the biggest problem that you can call out on 1047 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,560 this particular season. I agree and and looking forward 1048 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,760 as we've said many times but you know to try and crystallize it 1049 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,440 into one point. You know the the problems that 1050 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,400 we're having this year with you know the style of our play and 1051 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,160 some of the lack of cohesion and a lot of the turnover and 1052 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,120 roster. All of those things are going to 1053 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,080 be apparent next year like unless unless the unless the 1054 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,960 Woodson just does a complete 180 and changes his style of play 1055 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,720 which I think is very unlikely. But the the the roster 1056 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:51,120 construction in so much as a lot of new players from you know not 1057 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,200 freshmen but new players from transfers like that's all going 1058 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,040 to be there next year. But you're going to turn over a 1059 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,960 lot of this. You know you're going to look 1060 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,600 back last, you know next year we're going to be like man you 1061 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,680 know it's tough you you lose 2 you know Xavier Johnson and Trey 1062 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,960 Galloway like you know 2 senior point guard you know a lot of 1063 00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,200 the culture there it's like the same problems are going to be 1064 00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,600 there next year. So that that can't be the reason 1065 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,880 why things are bad this year also next year and that that is 1066 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,200 what's concerning. But you know they they still 1067 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,840 have time to turn it around and and you know this is where 1068 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:26,760 trying to end on a positive note you have seen teams take an NIT 1069 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,960 berth and turn it into a stepping stone for the next 1070 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,120 season where you know the they they turn that into something 1071 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,240 and I think that's going to be the real key. 1072 00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:38,200 A lot of teams use the NIT as like all right this sucks and 1073 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:39,680 they just get blown out in the first round. 1074 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,120 We've seen Indiana do that. You know that's not ideal but 1075 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,200 you know ideally you have like wasn't it Michigan a couple 1076 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,400 years ago like won the NIT in the next year came back and 1077 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,680 played really well. Like you you hope you have a 1078 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,960 situation like that where they use the NIT as a step. 1079 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,280 They get into it and they can use that as a stepping stone to 1080 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,120 to try and show like here's the foundation of how we have some 1081 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,960 success moving into the 2024-2025 season. 1082 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,160 I appreciate your willingness to end on a positive note. 1083 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,000 I'll end on a negative note. You lose. 1084 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,960 You lose by I was saying you lose by 41 combined points to 1085 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,200 Purdue. Like that's unacceptable. 1086 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,120 Show some pride. Like I'm sorry. 1087 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,800 Like that's that is a bridge that shouldn't be crossed. 1088 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,920 And I'm sure you know Purdue when they got blown out by 1089 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,200 Indiana, like by a combined 60 some points in 2013, I'm sure 1090 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,600 they were saying the exact same thing. 1091 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,920 You know, like to to not be ready to play either of those 1092 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:39,200 games and for the team to just look like they just kind of gave 1093 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:46,360 up on the games both times is is about as bad as it gets in terms 1094 00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,480 of Indiana basketball, you know, in Indiana has not been great. 1095 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:54,360 You know, they've had individual moments of brilliance the last 1096 00:56:54,640 --> 00:57:00,280 quarter century, 30 years, but. Being uncompetitive to that 1097 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,160 degree against Purdue, I don't care how good Purdue is that's 1098 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,000 that should not be considered acceptable and that stat of it 1099 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,280 not happening since 1930. I'm like that can't be like we 1100 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,160 we dude 2009 was the worst year we ever had and you go back and 1101 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:13,600 look it's like that was a Purdue team. 1102 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,200 That Indiana team was ranked 209th in the country. 1103 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,560 That Purdue team was ranked 18th in the country and they were in 1104 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,520 Mackie and Indiana only lost by what, like 15? 1105 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,800 Yeah, I mean, I just people to keep it there. 1106 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,320 That's a team that was led by Verdell Jones and Tom Pritchard 1107 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,200 and Nick Williams. That was just, that was a team 1108 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,840 that went one in 17 in the big. Ten. 1109 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,440 I mean, as a coach, if you're going to, if you're trying to 1110 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,760 keep your team's mentality, fine. 1111 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:41,640 Go out and blame yourself in the post game. 1112 00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,760 Press conference say that was absolutely unacceptable. 1113 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,080 That is an embarrassment to Indiana basketball, that we 1114 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,840 played like that against Purdue. That can never happen again, and 1115 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,160 I'm going to make sure that never happens again. 1116 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,840 Just say some words that illustrate that you're 1117 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,360 discontented with getting blown out by a combined 41 points by 1118 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,240 Purdue. It's not that hard and and look 1119 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,200 I think there's plenty of things you can call out from your team 1120 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,560 about the things that they didn't do and the the unforced 1121 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,800 errors that they made and yes, you're playing a good opponent. 1122 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,560 It doesn't matter. It's Purdue. 1123 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,200 This is supposed to be different. 1124 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,000 You know, this is supposed to be go through all of the rivalries. 1125 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,440 This is supposed to be different. 1126 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,480 It always is. And for Indiana and for Woodson, 1127 00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,240 especially in that post game, in those post game comments, to 1128 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,360 just act so nonchalant about it and like, well, we still got 1129 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,760 time to improve, you're missing the point. 1130 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,560 And it really makes me wonder, how tuned in are you to this 1131 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,880 culture value basketball that you are supposedly an avatar of, 1132 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,120 you know, and that's that that. I don't know. 1133 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,000 That shouldn't be controversial. That should be pretty 1134 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,800 straightforward. But the fact that Indiana, I 1135 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,120 think, fans have have kind of been lulled into this idea that, 1136 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,920 well, of course we were going to lose by 20 points to Purdue is a 1137 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,080 huge part of the problem. Yeah. 1138 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,160 Anyway, I promised Taylor Swift comment. 1139 00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,720 I promised a little Taylor Swift comment at the end. 1140 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,560 So there's been a lot of interesting discourse over the 1141 00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,600 course of the last, I don't know, well really the last two 1142 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:12,040 months about Taylor Swift, the Kansas City Chiefs, the NFL, and 1143 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,280 you know, there's this dumb ass cultural war that seems to be 1144 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,880 going on on on social media especially. 1145 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:19,280 It's entered the political realm. 1146 00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,840 You know, you've got certain people, certain political 1147 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,320 backgrounds, You know, you know, they, they hate Taylor Swift and 1148 00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:30,400 I hate Travis Kelsey. So I I see this a lot in study 1149 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:31,960 media for a living. And one of the interesting 1150 00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:39,600 things about media I think is media coverage has a tendency to 1151 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,400 ruin a lot of things that people like, but also has a tendency to 1152 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,120 make things that aren't that big of a deal a big deal simply 1153 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:48,840 because it's like a constant thing. 1154 00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,640 And so with Taylor Swift, I think it's fascinating and it 1155 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,680 and it also applies to Caitlin Clark the exact same way. 1156 00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:02,880 Both of these are objectively successful and I think 1157 01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,320 objectively good things. I mean Taylor Swift has grown 1158 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,640 into the largest pop star in the world, you know in this era and 1159 01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,960 and competing for all eras just in terms of overall success. 1160 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,480 Caitlin Clark's about to set the all time women's scoring record. 1161 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,760 Will probably set the all time basketball scoring record at the 1162 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,360 college level. So why are so many people, like, 1163 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,920 angry at both of them? And it's this thing I'd like to 1164 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,440 call saturation theory, which isn't an official theory. 1165 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,320 It's really more of a hypothesis at this point, but it's an 1166 01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:36,200 interesting one. Because ultimately, when you're 1167 01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,720 constantly exposed to the same coverage of the same person over 1168 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,160 and over again, almost always there's a tipping point where 1169 01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,320 people become resentful of the coverage and it has very little 1170 01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,160 to do with the actual person. It, and often times the actual 1171 01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,040 person, has very little to do with the coverage. 1172 01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,760 It has everything instead to do with the fact that when you're 1173 01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,960 just completely surrounded by exposure to that person over and 1174 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,520 over again, there's a certain segment of the population who's 1175 01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,240 like, enough. I want no more of this, and you 1176 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,520 see it down the line with it. It doesn't happen as much in 1177 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,600 sports because very few sports figures get to the point where 1178 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,400 they have that level of coverage. 1179 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,440 Tom Brady was one of those people, and there were there's a 1180 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,520 huge swath of people who hate Tom Brady, even though 1181 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,960 objectively, Tom Brady is the most successful quarterback in 1182 01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,440 NFL history. It's getting that way to some 1183 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,400 degree with Patrick Mahomes. It got that way to some degree 1184 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,880 with Peyton Manning, you know. So I don't even think it's like 1185 01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,360 just a, it's not that Taylor Swift is is a female and people 1186 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,280 are angry because she keeps getting shown in football games. 1187 01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,400 You know, I think you could pick another highly popular person, 1188 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,560 put them in the same spot. And if they were constantly 1189 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:49,600 being injected into coverage over and over again by networks 1190 01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,200 and and you know, by media who are covering it, there would be 1191 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,200 a backlash that would be proportionate to the amount of 1192 01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,640 coverage. And so with Caitlin Clark, it's 1193 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,120 like why is Caitlin Clark so annoying to so many people? 1194 01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,040 I mean people will say, oh, it's, you know, her antics on 1195 01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,000 the court that's crap. There's lots of people who 1196 01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,440 complain to officials and and so on and so forth. 1197 01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,720 It's because when you're like there was a Caitlin Clark 1198 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,000 segment during the Indiana Purdue game men's game last 1199 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,520 night. Like guys back off a little bit, 1200 01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,280 you know. And it's to some degree a 1201 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,680 phenomenon of this era of media, where there's this constant 1202 01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,560 feeling on the part of people creating media content that I 1203 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,040 have to constantly hit the dopamine button of the audience 1204 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,000 and constantly expose them to the things that have already 1205 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,320 proven to be successful. The the Marvel movie universe 1206 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,000 actually occupies this exact same theoretical space. 1207 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,400 It's like we'd be fine with some other movies and some new 1208 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,960 intellectual property and some different ideas, but instead 1209 01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,320 we're going to get our 38th superhero movie. 1210 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,280 Why? Because you know, what's the 1211 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,360 famous saying? Like, Hollywood is out of ideas. 1212 01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:58,280 But it's more than that. It's that ultimately people will 1213 01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,520 continue to saturate a marketplace with images or with 1214 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,760 news about the same people over and over again because it's been 1215 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,200 proven to be successful. But it creates this runaway 1216 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,080 train of discontent on the part of the audience that's 1217 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,520 essentially the core of the theory. 1218 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,440 And so the Super Bowl is going to be interesting because you 1219 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:20,360 know, CBS is not going to be able to help themselves. 1220 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,440 They are going to have as much Taylor Swift as they feel like 1221 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,600 they can squeeze in and it's going to make it worse. 1222 01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,840 I'm just happy to some degree that the NFL season is ending 1223 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,960 because I just would like to have that debate off of, you 1224 01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,360 know, everybody's plate. It's the dumbest thing for 1225 01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:40,000 people to get upset about, and yet that is probably what we're 1226 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,160 going to see for the majority of the day-to-day if you're 1227 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,640 watching Super Bowl coverage. So I want to help you try and 1228 01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,760 rename the theory. I I think the name is pretty 1229 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,520 good because because I've noticed the same thing in a 1230 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,680 different arena. So I'm going to call it the flow 1231 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,760 from progressive theory because you you get this. 1232 01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,200 And she may not be the best. It's it's kind of it's the girl 1233 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,600 in the AT&T ads because I've kind of gotten tired of her. 1234 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,040 But like you're, we're all going to have this problem in about 1235 01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,080 four weeks. Because like many of the 1236 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:09,360 listeners, yourself included, I love March Madness and I will 1237 01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,600 watch, you know, Thursday to Saturday, Sunday. 1238 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,760 I will watch nothing but the NCAA tournament. 1239 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,280 And I try and flop from game to game to game. 1240 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,640 The trouble is, with that package, it's all one, you know, 1241 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,480 conglomerate of networks and CBS with TNTTBS and TRU TV. 1242 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,600 You get the same like 7 ads every single time. 1243 01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,920 And it's like, even I'm like telling friends like, God damn 1244 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,000 it would AT&T just, I would love for them to just have like 85 1245 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,520 different ads. Like make one, like, make it 1246 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:38,400 like MTV. Like one's just a wild ad, like 1247 01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:39,720 make this one in cartoon and claymation. 1248 01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:41,920 Like I don't care if it's good. Like I'm just tired of seeing, 1249 01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,680 you know, the same ad where, you know, it was like couple well 1250 01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,840 years ago, like Matt Stafford coming in and being like, oh, 1251 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,000 like this was so much nicer. And it's like it's funny. 1252 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:50,640 Third time it's like, oh God, another one. 1253 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:51,480 It's like, oh, we're doing this again. 1254 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,920 And you start making fun of it. And then it's like it's like, 1255 01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:56,800 man, we should have put a different angle on this. 1256 01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,560 It's like. First defender of that was the 1257 01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,680 the Applebee's commercials from the mid 2000s with the guys with 1258 01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,800 the guitars like, you know, singing sea shanties. 1259 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,440 It's just. Like that you get this. 1260 01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,600 But I I feel the same thing and I'm getting it now with Danny 1261 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,880 DeVito and the the Jersey Mike's ads. 1262 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,800 It's like getting a bunch. No, I hear you on that. 1263 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,520 The other thing that I always find funny is you get this other 1264 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,680 kind of scare, you know, straw man argument every year with 1265 01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,800 people who are like, I just, you know, I'm tired of Taylor Swift. 1266 01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:29,960 I just want to watch my football on the Super Bowl. 1267 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,720 And it's like the Super Bowl has never been about football. 1268 01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:36,680 Like, yes, there is a football game played every single year. 1269 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,960 There's tons of media that covers it, that always finds 1270 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,760 other angles, whether it's the Kelsey brothers, whether it's 1271 01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,880 the Harbaugh brothers, whether it's, you know, Usher coming in 1272 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,400 and do you know whoever's doing the, you know, Tom Petty's doing 1273 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,480 the halftime show. It's like there is always a, you 1274 01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,480 know, fluff piece element that gets pushed. 1275 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,440 They're always showing people in the stands. 1276 01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,720 It's like, there's always that. Like this is, of all the games, 1277 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,680 this is not one where it's like we're going to focus for the 1278 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,160 hard cores. Like that's the NBA Finals, 1279 01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,040 That's Major League Baseball. Like the Super Bowl in and of 1280 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,960 itself is something different. It's the commercials, like. 1281 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,840 So people who are like, I just hate, it's like that, hate that. 1282 01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,040 It's like, take it over there. You know, true football day. 1283 01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,280 It's like it was never a true football day. 1284 01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,320 The last thing I'll say, and this is this where it ties back 1285 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:23,520 into the Taylor Swift and Caitlin Clark for that matter. 1286 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,040 Yeah, the problem with whatever you're we're calling it, you 1287 01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,160 didn't like saturation theory. What was your name for it? 1288 01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,120 I do. I do is, is that the the person 1289 01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,200 gets blamed for this, not the media coverage. 1290 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:37,840 That's very fair. Yeah. 1291 01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,760 So it's like, look, I'm sure Taylor Swift. 1292 01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:42,960 Clark, stop. It's like here's the stop going 1293 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:44,920 into Fox and telling Gus Johnson to talk about. 1294 01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,280 Well, it's the same thing with with Taylor Swift. 1295 01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:49,080 Like people are like, oh, Taylor Swift just wants the media 1296 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:50,720 coverage. Taylor Swift doesn't give a crap 1297 01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:53,840 about the media coverage. Taylor Swift what grossed $3 1298 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,840 billion or whatever it is on on this tour that she's doing. 1299 01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,960 She does not need NFL fans like she really does not. 1300 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,640 I'm sorry, that is not a a demographic that is necessary in 1301 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,600 the Taylor Swift universe. She's doing fine and like we see 1302 01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,280 it with like Caitlin Clark. 3 unsold seats in all of them. 1303 01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,360 It's like, I doubt she's like we got to sell those last four 1304 01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,560 seats. Caitlin Clark is not, you know, 1305 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:21,040 using her her vaunted position as a State Farm spokesperson. 1306 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,240 You know, to to to saturate coverage of herself across these 1307 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:27,400 things. These are decisions that are 1308 01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,000 being made. And it really comes back to this 1309 01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,840 idea that, you know, there's clearly a segment of the 1310 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,000 population that likes the coverage, but there's also a 1311 01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,680 huge segment of the population that does not like the coverage. 1312 01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:42,400 And there you need to be a little more judicious, and it's 1313 01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,560 hard to do in this era because you're constantly worried about 1314 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,640 losing people. It's interesting as you try to 1315 01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,840 break down while this happens the the cycle just goes over and 1316 01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,880 over again and this you know, someone else, someone leaves the 1317 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,520 environment and then it's a waiting period and then whoever 1318 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,800 comes back in, it's suddenly all over the place all the time. 1319 01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:09,120 And I just at this point would really again, I'm glad that 1320 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,360 we're seeing this kind of come to a close. 1321 01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:16,560 It's going to be interesting to see exactly what happens in in 1322 01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,080 the Super Bowl coverage and how they've got everything set up. 1323 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:23,160 I am concerned about how it's going to play out and I'm. 1324 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,920 I'm just happy that we're not going to have to talk about it 1325 01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,319 again. After today for at least another 1326 01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,080 six months, can I do one? Caitlin Clark thought. 1327 01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,920 While we're here just to wrap up, I've had this discussion 1328 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:35,760 with multiple people and I can't believe I've had these 1329 01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:37,120 arguments. Like, I feel like I'm taking 1330 01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,560 crazy pills, you know, with the fever, having the number one 1331 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,200 pick this year, I've been like, this is going to be awesome. 1332 01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,080 Like, if Caitlin Clark comes out, that'd be that'd be 1333 01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:46,560 awesome. Like she would be really great 1334 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,600 for the city of Indianapolis. Like she is a fun basketball 1335 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,960 figure to watch. I've had this multiple people 1336 01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,160 who are like I don't know man. Like you know the the the 1337 01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,359 average you know the starting salary the WNBA is like 1338 01:08:57,359 --> 01:08:59,600 $300,000. Like she makes, you know, 1.2 1339 01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:00,960 million nil. Iowa. 1340 01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:04,120 And I'm like, OK, But like, I understand, like, I understand 1341 01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,960 some of that is like Iowa boosters giving money. 1342 01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,840 But like the other nil is like, it's State Farm endorsements. 1343 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,439 It's like endorsements that like, I don't think State Farm 1344 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,840 is going to be like, oh, now that you're in the WNBA, we're 1345 01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:16,560 done being in the Caitlin Clark business. 1346 01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,920 I'm like, I would say the majority of that money will 1347 01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,840 transfer with her and she might even make more because she'll 1348 01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,640 now be working for an organization that has an actual 1349 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,479 professional marketing team that will get her more marketing 1350 01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:30,720 dollars. And people were like, Oh no man, 1351 01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,080 she makes like, you know, again they're using like 1.2 in Iowa, 1352 01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,439 like she'll make 300,000 at, you know, WNBA. 1353 01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,399 It's like, I just like I I've had like I don't know, I can't 1354 01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:41,960 get through people's head. It's like most of that money 1355 01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,359 will continue with like those are contracts with Caitlin 1356 01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:45,000 Clark. Yes. 1357 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,920 People who are paying her to be in Iowa, they won't be happy. 1358 01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,240 But State Farm? That's awesome. 1359 01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,880 Let's go promote her somewhere else where she can now do even 1360 01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,360 more ads, 'cause she's not contractually obligated to 1361 01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,840 pretend to. It's just it's funny that people 1362 01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,000 use these numbers. It's like, it's not like all 1363 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,680 that goes anyway. I just, I've had that conference 1364 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,080 with multiple people who like I I'm literally like having this 1365 01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,520 argument with. It's like doesn't make any 1366 01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:10,480 sense. People, This is where college 1367 01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:14,120 athletics and the way that it's set up has really created a 1368 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:20,840 perceptional issue for people in terms of like nil is just 1369 01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,240 commercial is essentially just commercial dollars. 1370 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,400 Like the idea that the idea that somehow you would make more in 1371 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,760 college basketball if you have that level of Q rating. 1372 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:35,080 You know, I mean again Caitlin Clark is is she's on more State 1373 01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:36,840 Farm commercials than Chris Paul. 1374 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:41,240 Now she's, you know, you know she's on she's in as many it 1375 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,120 feels like as Patrick Mahomes now. 1376 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:48,040 I mean she's clearly got a national brand that is going to 1377 01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,320 carry to the WNBA level. Now if she doesn't perform at 1378 01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,240 the WNBA level, some of that could go away. 1379 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,480 But especially that first year. I mean you know the the Fever, 1380 01:10:56,480 --> 01:10:59,240 drafting the idea that it wouldn't be a good idea or like 1381 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:02,080 wouldn't be beneficial for the Fever to draft her and that she 1382 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,240 wouldn't make as much money. It'll it'll it'll be fine. 1383 01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:07,880 For those of you who are concerned trolling about that, 1384 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:09,960 like it, yes, it will actually be amazing. 1385 01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:13,120 And it'll be amazing for the WNBA because they will sell out 1386 01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:15,160 arenas because people will want to go see her. 1387 01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:16,640 It's happened all over the place. 1388 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,680 Indiana has sold out their game against Iowa. 1389 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,040 That's coming up here in a couple of weeks because people 1390 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,200 want to see Caitlin Clark, so just. 1391 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:26,920 The idea the dollars don't transfer. 1392 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,680 Yeah, the the idea that there's a reservoir, I mean there are 1393 01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:33,320 certain circumstances where there's more money to be made in 1394 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,760 college athletics, but that's generally it's like. 1395 01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:38,360 It's like Olympic sports. Right. 1396 01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:39,720 That's what exactly was going to say. 1397 01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:41,680 You know, I mean, you're you're not. 1398 01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,040 It's not like a highly successful and popular 1399 01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:50,000 basketball player at the WNBA level isn't going to make a lot 1400 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,840 of money in endorsements in the pros if they're already making 1401 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:54,960 them in college. If anything it gives you a 1402 01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,360 broader platform to work with. You know the one thing you do 1403 01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,600 miss is the branding around the team that you're playing for. 1404 01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,040 But it's Iowa like it that you're not talking about a 1405 01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,960 national brand like Caitlin Clark has made Iowa national 1406 01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,400 brand in women's basketball, not the other way around. 1407 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,360 So no, she'll be fine. She'll make as much money, 1408 01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:18,760 probably more money in at the at the professional level and it 1409 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,280 will make the Fever more popular as well, which is important. 1410 01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,640 And I think what's important about the Caitlin Clark thing is 1411 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:30,440 that Caitlin Clark's of like success and abilities are 1412 01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,200 they're in a different mode than other great WNBA players that 1413 01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:39,560 have come before because the market is a lot more ready to 1414 01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,480 embrace women's sports, particularly women's basketball. 1415 01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,360 You've seen that on the women's soccer side where you've had, 1416 01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,480 you know, players that may not have the same level of 1417 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,520 popularity at their individual professional clubs, but they are 1418 01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,120 incredibly popular at the national team level. 1419 01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,680 And now that is starting to reciprocate where that is 1420 01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,680 starting to help the the club teams in terms of their overall 1421 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,080 levels of popularity. It's coming from the other 1422 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,480 direction in women's basketball where it's a lot easier with the 1423 01:13:07,480 --> 01:13:10,520 television contracts and the built in branding for individual 1424 01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:16,800 players to be seen as successful and popular, but that will carry 1425 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,920 up to the WNBA level. It's not like it's going to go 1426 01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,320 die there. It's more like that's what the 1427 01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:23,920 WNB needs to expand its popularity, which will make 1428 01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,480 Caitlin Clark even more valuable, I think, to the WNBA 1429 01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:30,480 than she has been. To Indy. 1430 01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,400 You know you pair her with Halliburton like you you now 1431 01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:37,120 have a great pairing of like two really dynamic guard players and 1432 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,520 like they could do ads together. It's like those all things are 1433 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,640 going to be available. Like imagine if she used the 1434 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,080 Fever right now and you're having the the All Star weekend 1435 01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:45,960 this next weekend coming up. It's like you could have her in 1436 01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:47,720 the skills challenge. You could have her do a 1437 01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:49,200 three-point shooting contest with Halbert. 1438 01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,800 Like Steph Curry is doing one this this next weekend. 1439 01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,480 It's like there's so anyway it's just it's a an argument I've had 1440 01:13:55,480 --> 01:13:57,240 where it's I think it's silly and then I've had multiple 1441 01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,480 people like like really argue with me about. 1442 01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,080 It like doesn't make any sense anyway. 1443 01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:04,640 But anyway, it's it's an interesting thought exercise if 1444 01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:06,640 nothing else. So anyway, that was that last 1445 01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,120 part. That's kind of a preview of what 1446 01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,080 we do on the VIP videos is we'll talk about things that have 1447 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:15,080 nothing to do with IU or only tangentially related to IU, so 1448 01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:16,680 maybe a good reason to subscribe. 1449 01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:19,400 Anyway, we appreciate you folks sticking around for this. 1450 01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,320 We apologize if you've heard all this already. 1451 01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:23,800 We will have some football podcasts coming here relatively 1452 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,360 soon for those who are hanging out for that. 1453 01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:31,200 And yeah, we'll be back to talk more IU basketball as we move 1454 01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:32,400 forward. Be sure to check out the Crimson 1455 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,680 Cast Women's Basketball Show with Amanda Foster and Kevin 1456 01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,280 Vera. And we hope you all have a 1457 01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,080 wonderful week. Have a happy Valentine's Day for 1458 01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:41,360 Scott. I'm Galen. 1459 01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:44,240 This is Crimson Cast. We will catch you folks. 1460 01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:47,040 On the flip side, bring back the Bison. 1461 01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:49,560 Thanks to home field apparel. So everybody.