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You're listening to the back 
home network presented by home 

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field. 
Apparel. 

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Welcome back to Crimson Cask 
ale, and klaviyo joining you 

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here. 
It's Saturday, the 13th of 

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August 1. 
This podcast is being recorded. 

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I hope you folks are all having 
a good start. 

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Two year August. 
We're almost halfway done with 

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it and we've got to talk IU 
football. 

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Football is coming up here in 
less than a month. 

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The start of the season. 
Right. 

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At the beginning of September is
the Indiana Hoosiers. 

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Take on the Illinois. 
Fighting Illini in the real 

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Memorial Stadium on the Friday 
before Labor Day, and we're 

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going to be doing what we 
normally do to start off 

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football season talking with a 
bunch of folks in media across 

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the board getting perspectives 
on My you football, as we go 

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into this upcoming season with 
the strengths and weaknesses are

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what to look for. 
What to be concerned about 

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coming off of what was frankly, 
a disastrous two and ten 

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campaign for a program that had 
built a pretty decent amount of 

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momentum up in the four years 
prior to that. 

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So we're going to talk to Zach. 
Osterman coming up here on this 

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show. 
Zach of course from the Indy 

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star we've talked with in many 
times. 

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If you're in IU football or 
basketball fan demand, you 

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aren't reading Zack, I'd 
question what you're doing, but 

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yeah, Zack's got a lot of 
interesting. 

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Dibs. 
We're going to talk, I think 

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mostly about the past year and 
the past couple of years and the

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overall attitude towards Tom 
Allen and the program. 

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Right now, try to get a sense of
where everybody's at, whether 

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those feelings are fair and 
perhaps how we should be 

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thinking about this upcoming 
season before we get to that. 

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Just a reminder, that Crimson 
cast is part of the back home 

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network in the back home, 
network presenting sponsor is 

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home field apparel your 
one-stop-shop. 

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It seems like pretty much every 
cool. 

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Cool and very soft piece of 
apparel that's out there right 

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now in college sports, they've 
been releasing some killer 

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collections on a week-by-week 
basis over the course of the 

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last several weeks. 
They actually just released a 

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big Penn State collection all 
due respect. 

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I'm not going to be partaking in
that collection, but I've 

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partaken in any other 
Collections and they've all been

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tremendous. 
They've got tons of IU gear. 

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If you haven't gone to 
home-field apparel, you need to 

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go check it out. 
You can get 15% off your first. 

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Ordered by using the code home. 
It's home field. 

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Apparel.com, they're also a 
great Twitter, follow home-field

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apparel on Twitter. 
We've talked about the many 

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times and I feel like it's kind 
of care Club for Men back in the

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day. 
It's like I'm not, you know, 

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only pitching them, but I'm also
a consumer. 

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Got a lot of their stuff and 
it's always tremendous and 

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including a lot of oval IU 
stuff, which is, of course, 

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that's how you football, you 
know, that's, that's the DNA For

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Better or For Worse, just picked
up an oval crew neck. 

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Check sweatshirt for the 
upcoming season. 

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I'm looking forward to busting 
that out of the first chili 

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tailgate morning of the, you're 
probably not in the Friday 

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before Labor Day. 
I'm guessing it's not going to 

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be quite cool enough to bring 
that out of the closet, but 

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you've got a lot of great 
options there. 

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So go check them out, home-field
apparel.com, not just IU, the 

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entirety of college sports. 
We'll go ahead and get to the 

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interview here in a second. 
Just a couple of programming 

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notes before we get to that a 
reminder, that it Susan cast, we

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generally have a pattern by 
which, we cover the week for 

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football and that's the pattern 
will be settling into once we 

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get through a lot of these 
initial interviews, talking 

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about, you know, the, the 
preseason stuff here. 

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Once we get into the season, 
you'll get a preview podcast 

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that normally comes out on 
Thursday or Friday leading into 

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a football week. 
And then you'll get a recap 

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show, that'll pop up on Sunday. 
We might add another show to the

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mix in the go. 
Oh, she ations with a couple of 

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people that I think you'd like 
to hear from as we get a little 

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bit closer to that. 
So, keep your ears open as we 

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will have some potentially new 
content coming this year. 

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And then, of course the whole 
calendar gets blown up as soon 

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as basketballs underway is, 
we're still doing our football 

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stuff but we're also doing 
basketball. 

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So looking forward to speaking 
with you, folks once again 

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throughout the course of this 
upcoming season and if you've 

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ever got comments questions 
anything about IU sports or 

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cooking or music, whatever that 
you want to ask, you can Hit us 

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up on Twitter at Crimson Castro.
Also on Instagram if you want to

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message us there and you can 
also catch me on Twitter at dr. 

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G c. 
Always love hearing from you 

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folks, and you've always got 
some great thoughts and insights

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and we try to work those into 
the shows as much as we possibly

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can. 
We'll go and get to our 

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interview. 
With Zach Osborne coming up here

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after that, thanks for 
listening, folks, and as we move

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into this upcoming season, I'm 
looking forward to seeing how it

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all unfolds, it's always a big 
mystery. 

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Tree with IU football. 
You never quite know what. 

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You're going to get and Zach. 
Osterman, joining us again from 

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the Indy star IU Insider for 
football and basketball. 

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And it's that time of year 
again, Zach as we are just a few

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weeks away from the start of the
football season. 

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How are you doing? 
I'm good. 

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I'm resting as best I can. 
How about you? 

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Same, you know, the Calm before 
the storm. 

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Although, in my role here, the 
storm pretty much started two 

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weeks ago, so not much calm at 
this stage. 

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You football its back and, you 
know, we've had fall Camp going 

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here for a little bit. 
Obviously, some observations, 

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you know, that you've been able 
to gather through media 

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availability and things like 
that, which we'll talk about in 

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a minute. 
But you and I were talking last 

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week at some point and, you 
know, you had made some kind of 

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a, an observation about the 
mentality or the kind of the 

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mental state of some IU football
fans coming into this year. 

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And so we wanted to maybe start 
off and talk about That, you 

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know, the the IU football did 
not have a great year last year.

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It was the worst year since the 
first year of the Kevin Wilson 

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era. 
Both, I think, in terms of 

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record and an overall sentiment 
towards the team, and they come 

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into this year with, you know, I
think maybe some causes for 

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optimism but a lot of people 
really seem like they're either 

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very out on the team already or 
just your very much taking a 

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wait-and-see approach. 
You know what's Overall, take 

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on. 
Where are you football? 

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Fans are right now and how this 
program is being evaluated in 

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the eyes of those folks? 
Yeah, I think. 

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What I said to somebody 
recently, I said Indiana 

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football fans are not unfamiliar
with being disappointed, you 

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know. 
It that is, that's not the issue

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here. 
It's the depth of the 

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disappointment from last season.
It's the extent to which they 

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were encouraged to get their 
hopes up, you know, effectively.

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And do you know it it it just 
completely kind of collapsed on 

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them and so I think that's why 
it feels like there is a maybe a

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for lack of a better term 8, a 
more intense frustration or a 

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more intense sort of Distrust is
probably the best word I can. 

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I get like it, you know, it like
I said, ìyou, football fans are 

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not unfamiliar with 
disappointment. 

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They're not unfamiliar with 
under performance. 

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They're not unfamiliar with, you
know, just likely being, you 

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know, being bad, sometimes it's 
that they were rightly sort of 

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encouraged to get their hopes up
last season. 

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And then, you know, the program 
that kind of encourage those 

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hopes just sort of Lapsed in on 
itself and so at least for last 

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season so I understand very much
where they're coming from and I 

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think just would be the 
interesting sort of conversation

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or the interesting sort of you 
know tug-of-war that exists here

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is really to me, sort of about 
kind of nature versus nurture 

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with this. 
This, this specific team not 

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this program but this specific 
Team in this specific season, I 

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think it's going to be 
interesting to kind of watch out

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what unfolds and I'm very sort 
of curious, just kind of like 

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how the team handles it. 
But then, of course, that's the 

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biggest part of it but also just
sort of where the fan base coats

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depending on, where the season 
goes because at the same time I 

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you know what is sort of sparked
this. 

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This thread in my own mind is 
that I still don't think this is

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a terrible team. 
I don't think it's going to 

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finish second in the big Denise,
like it did in 2020, but I still

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don't think this is a bad team. 
It's an interesting question 

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because I'm curious. 
Why you don't feel that? 

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It's a bad team, not that I 
disagree with that assumption. 

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And I've perhaps first of all, 
like, when you say, I don't 

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think this is a bad team. 
What do you mean? 

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That like, where, where do you 
think this team is likely to 

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land from a results perspective?
The thing is, it's, it's hard 

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for me to say and normally 
understandably. 

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You would look at a season like 
this and you would say, well 

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they went to in 10 last year. 
You know, they didn't sign the 

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number to recruiting class in 
the country. 

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You know, it did probably got 
some good transfers but nobody 

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that feels just overwhelmingly. 
Dominant teams like that. 

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Don't usually get better. 
I think the the my starting 

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position though is that I don't 
think Indiana was as bad last 

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season as its record or at least
I think it was like a this way. 

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It was, as bad as its 
performance and its record 

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reflected its performance. 
I think it was a more talented 

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roster than that, that for a 
variety of reasons, could not 

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arrest. 
Its dip, I don't think every 

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problems been solved but I also 
just, you know, the the sort of 

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sentiment of 20/20 was just the 
aberration last year, is the 

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norm doesn't really explain away
the six years before that. 

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And six years is a long time. 
Like that's, you know, from for 

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so long. 
People like you and me, when we 

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watched Indiana, finished 
between two and four wins, and, 

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you know, maybe the highlight of
the season was beating Purdue. 

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And, you know, that half the 
games on their schedule were 

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heavy heavy defeats and they 
were never competitive the 

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conversations. 
We would have asked these 

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questions. 
Actions. 

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Like, how do you build winning 
habits? 

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You know, how do you, how do 
you, how do you build a, you 

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know, how do you learn how to 
win? 

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That's, that's a thing. 
Surprise. 

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Coaches use a lot but like the 
reason they use it is because 

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that's a thing. 
This program spent the best part

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of a decade, learning how to win
and and saw the fruits of that 

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four bowls. 
And six years was not a was not 

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a mirage. 
The question is, when I say it's

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nature versus nurture, the 
roster you have here, still has 

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all big 10 level performers on. 
It still has one or two 

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All-American level performers 
on. 

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It has been bolstered by I think
a few Savvy transverse and a 

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really good-looking freshman 
class. 

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I don't think it's going to be 
the best freshman class in 

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history, the Big Ten but I think
there's going to be some players

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there that contribute right away
and meaningfully This roster 

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this program has seen seen this 
sort of thing before, once the 

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rug gets pulled out that's it 
and it's just a slow. 

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Walk toward the inevitable. 
The inevitability of this is 

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going to, you know this is all 
going to fail and it'll start 

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over this roster hasn't though. 
None of these players had been 

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through what I think. 
Fans would call a quote-unquote 

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typical IU football season. 
Same old IU football season, At 

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any point in their careers. 
And so that's where I get back 

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to this idea of nature versus 
nurture like yours at the nature

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of the biz, the nature of the 
program. 

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Going to win out here. 
Is that what we saw last year 

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was that IU football to some 
extent is always just going to 

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be I youth football. 
And there may be brief, you 

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know, brief Peaks. 
But the valleys will always be 

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just over the hill. 
And I'm not saying I used to be 

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good forever. 
Just if they, like if I you go 

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six and six is here, I'm not 
saying everything is solved and 

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I is going to be fine forever. 
But the nurture is that this 

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00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:50,200
roster I had never known a 
season like that and it had 

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00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,500
developed a lot of those. 
Those elusive habits that 

228
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:55,500
coaches, always talk about that 
programs, like this really 

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00:12:55,500 --> 00:13:01,100
struggle with and that's, that's
kind of the, that is the push 

230
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:07,200
and pull that I see. 
And I'm just, I guess I'm not, I

231
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,000
would not call myself, I mean, I
don't care if they win or lose, 

232
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,600
that's not my job, but I would 
certainly not classify my 

233
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,100
Outlook on this season. 
As overly optimistic in terms 

234
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:20,900
of, you know, if you said look, 
what do you think the record 

235
00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:23,400
will be or how successful season
do you think it will be? 

236
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,800
But I do think I do think I am a
lot more Curious than most 

237
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:33,700
people about IU football, and 
I'm surprised at maybe the lack 

238
00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:39,100
of curiosity, maybe a certain 
lack of trust and Tom Allen. 

239
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:44,700
Certain lack of trust in these 
players that it feels like was 

240
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:48,500
built over three or four years 
but then lost in one and that's 

241
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:52,600
that's that's the Curiosity. 
I see well I think it might be 

242
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,600
helpful since we're talking 
about the psyche of the fans to 

243
00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,300
some degree here in relation to 
last year, you talked about the 

244
00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:03,100
you know, the inherent talent 
that was on that roster and how 

245
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,200
they weren't able to pull 
themselves out of the slide. 

246
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,300
So, what do you think happened? 
Last year? 

247
00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:13,000
I mean, I think it's important 
to Remind people that this like 

248
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,500
the entire build up from the 
moment that the Outback Bowl 

249
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:20,000
ended essentially all the way 
through to, when the ball got 

250
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,200
kicked in Iowa City, at the 
beginning of September there 

251
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,100
seemed to be this constant build
up, not just from outside 

252
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:28,700
sources. 
But even inside that, this was 

253
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,300
going to be a really good team 
that this was going to be a team

254
00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,600
that was going to contend, you 
know, at least within the 

255
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:40,100
confines of the top 25 and it 
just never Got going. 

256
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:43,300
I mean you could make an 
argument that they maybe even 

257
00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:45,600
over achieved it to and 10. 
I mean, it could have easily 

258
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,700
lost the Western Kentucky game 
that they did win and for a team

259
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:51,600
that and I think you make some 
good points like it. 

260
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,000
The last four seasons the 
program and particularly the 

261
00:14:54,008 --> 00:14:59,100
previous two seasons had 
performed so well, had one types

262
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:01,400
of games and add the types of 
performances that you just 

263
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,200
hadn't seen traditionally out of
OU football for the bottom to 

264
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,100
fall out. 
The way that it did last year, 

265
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:09,400
was I think hard for a lot of 
fans to get their heads. 

266
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,700
So, what do you think were the 
core elements that led to that 

267
00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:21,100
happening? 
Well, I think for most and 

268
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:23,400
people don't like it when you 
bring up injuries, but I think 

269
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,000
that it's important to 
contextualize it, Indiana 

270
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,600
thought it had A superstar 
quarterback and it built 

271
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:36,000
everything around that and 
Michael penix was never that 

272
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:42,000
player and that's ultimately at 
least partly on a coaching staff

273
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:46,500
that they've got to look around.
They needed to be able to see 

274
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,400
that now seeing it and being 
able to do anything meaningful 

275
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,900
about, it are two different 
things. 

276
00:15:52,500 --> 00:16:00,200
But you know, We went into last 
season, not unfairly saying when

277
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,700
he things like whinnies on 
Michael penix is the biggest 

278
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:05,300
offensive Difference Maker in 
the Big Ten think that wasn't 

279
00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:08,900
unfair and we'd also seen 
Michael penix come back from 

280
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:11,300
major injuries and look fine 
once healthy. 

281
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:14,600
So it wasn't unfair to just sort
of presume that he'd be. 

282
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,600
All right from the ACL tear as 
well. 

283
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:27,300
He was really bad and a lot of 
that probably was the injury and

284
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:31,100
maybe it's too many injuries. 
Maybe he was back too soon. 

285
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,100
Maybe this one was just a little
bit more serious than the others

286
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,000
but he was he just he never 
other than maybe that Western 

287
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,300
Kentucky game. 
He never looked anything like 

288
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,200
The Michael penix that had been 
so important for Indiana in 2019

289
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,200
and 2020. 
For any consistent length of 

290
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,600
time is offensive line, did not 
help him and that is a position 

291
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,800
group that frankly, I think not 
that this is ever not completely

292
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,900
taste. 
But like, her completely not the

293
00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:03,100
case. 
But, you know, if you're talking

294
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,200
about, like, if, if I told you 
right now Indiana's offensive 

295
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,900
line group would be a full 
letter grade better than it was 

296
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:11,500
last year. 
I think You know, we'd be better

297
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:15,500
off offensively for that. 
Then like if you said one 

298
00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:19,200
position group can be a full 
letter grade better than it was 

299
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,700
a year ago on offense, just like
that. 

300
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:27,599
Like just, just just kick off. 
That's your starting point. 

301
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,000
Which one would be most 
beneficial for Indiana. 

302
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000
It would be that offensive line 
again. 

303
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,100
I think injuries hurt by the end
of the season. 

304
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:44,200
You know, a program that had For
scholarship quarterbacks in its 

305
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:50,900
you know it's in its roster 
charting on Signing Day 2021 had

306
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:56,900
one healthy one who was clearly 
not ready for you know, to be a 

307
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,100
50-60 snap again quarterback in 
the Big Ten as a true freshman, 

308
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:02,400
which is there's nothing wrong 
with that and obviously he's now

309
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:09,000
playing wide receiver. 
You had, you know, some of your 

310
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,300
biggest, the players that felt 
like your biggest offensive play

311
00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:14,900
makers outside the one or two, 
that were really disappointing, 

312
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,800
like a David Ellis where DJ 
Matthews heard all year on 

313
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,500
defense, where it felt like, 
well, maybe Indiana's just going

314
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:25,400
to have to try and stiffen up 
defensively and just find a way 

315
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,100
that was the area that I mean, 
like there were points were 

316
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,800
Indiana's, basically its entire 
defensive secondary was either 

317
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,300
injured or playing injured. 
We've since found out things 

318
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,700
like dealing with. 
Played back after the season 

319
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:40,500
with cracked ribs, but he didn't
come out because he felt like he

320
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,600
couldn't because so many other 
guys were already hurt. 

321
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,600
I think. 
You know, that, I mean, again 

322
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,900
people only hear this schedule 
didn't help. 

323
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,900
The, it was turned out to be a 
remote, was it that I think it 

324
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:56,400
was 10 of their 12 opponents 
went to bowl games. 

325
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,700
I think that's what what it 
turned out in the end. 

326
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:06,800
There is something else. 
And I would, I think Tom Allen 

327
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,600
agreed with me when I sort of 
put this to him with. 

328
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,300
He does. 
He always does sit-down 

329
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:15,400
interviews with the media, like 
one-on-one interviews with 

330
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,500
different media, Outlets after 
spring practice. 

331
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,200
The that's kind of a, that's one
quiet time of year, where you 

332
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,800
can just sort of sit down and 
you know, talk through whatever 

333
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:30,400
flag an hour. and Dustin, and I 
sat with him and I'd probably 

334
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,000
put this to him a slightly more 
polite way than I'm going to put

335
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,300
it to you now, but I think I got
him to kind of agree with me. 

336
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:44,700
That I think some guys sort of 
gave up on last season. 

337
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,000
And I don't think it was just 
because they thought, oh, oh, 

338
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:51,000
losing stinks. 
I'm gonna quit. 

339
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:54,900
It's that you have this roster 
full of players that had bought 

340
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,800
into the idea of playing in 
Indiana. 

341
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:03,300
Because they could do something,
you know? 

342
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,900
In the, in the proverbial sense,
no one else had done, you know, 

343
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,900
I could go. 
So I Taiwan Mullen could go 

344
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:17,600
somewhere else and probably win 
more games. 

345
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:21,400
But I'm going to go to Indiana 
because I believe in this idea 

346
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,600
that like, I'm going to make 
Indiana something different. 

347
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,900
I'm going to be part of making 
Indiana, something different And

348
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:34,600
I have wondered. 
And again I said that I said it 

349
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,900
more artfully to Tom. 
We're talking to him, but I 

350
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,700
think he kind of agree with me 
or at least sort of 

351
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,300
acknowledged. 
It was a factor that you had 

352
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:45,700
this roster full of players that
basically have bought into the 

353
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,700
idea of including a number of 
players that probably could have

354
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,600
maybe should have gone pro after
the 2020 season. 

355
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,600
But they thought I'm coming back
for one more year, like a tie 

356
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,600
for iPhone, will I'm coming back
for one more year to try and 

357
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,000
finish this job. 
Whatever. 

358
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,800
That looks like a ten win 
season. 

359
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,300
You know the most wins in a 
season in program history, 

360
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:09,600
breaking the bowl, drought 
winning the Big Ten whatever 

361
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,100
that looks like. 
You know, we're going to take 

362
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:16,200
one more big step together. 
And we're going to end. 

363
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:19,200
It's worth saying to all those 
moments they got in 2020. 

364
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,800
They didn't get to share with 
the fans. 

365
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,400
That means something to athletes
really does and I think we've, 

366
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:27,000
we have learned that now more 
than we ever really appreciated 

367
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:33,300
before covid. 
And they came back and there was

368
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:36,100
all this sort of build up even 
in their own minds. 

369
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,400
And again, like I think you 
could probably get people to 

370
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,900
sort of tacitly admitted around 
the program, they let the noise 

371
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:43,300
get too loud. 
You know? 

372
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,400
And not not may be too arrogant 
but just like that. 

373
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,300
They just They probably could 
have pump the brakes a little 

374
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:56,600
bit, you know, and turn the 
volume down, just a tad more at 

375
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,300
different points. 
But once the season started to 

376
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:01,500
go, the way it went, you had 
this roster full of guys that 

377
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,100
maybe looked around. 
And thought I already did this 

378
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:08,400
though, like when suddenly had 
to when suddenly you you know 

379
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,800
whether you have the 
conversation directly or it was 

380
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,200
something sort of more implied 
you had to look at them and say 

381
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,300
like okay now we're not going to
we're not going to go 10 and But

382
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,700
we need to Rally together so we 
can go six and six. 

383
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:25,300
I think you had a lot of guys on
that roster that maybe thought. 

384
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:28,500
But I did that already. 
Like I came to Indiana to do 

385
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:33,800
that and I did I came back this 
year on the idea of doing, you 

386
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,000
know, of sort of expanding those
Ambitions, one more time on now 

387
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,100
that's not possible anymore and 
I think some guys just struggled

388
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:43,300
to re-engage with the season and
then in the thing is, all these 

389
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:47,600
things were happening together. 
You know, DJ Matthews got hurt. 

390
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,900
Literally the week after. 
He emerged as like, Michael 

391
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:55,100
penix is favorite wide receiver,
playmaker, you know, Taiwan 

392
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:56,900
mulliner, Devon Neff. 
He's got hurt. 

393
00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:58,700
Week, one came back like week 
for. 

394
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:00,500
Then got hurt again, then came 
back and got hurt. 

395
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:03,600
Again, Taiwan Mullen was in and 
out almost from the beginning. 

396
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,300
So you've got, you know, you've 
got, you've got key players who 

397
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,600
are also key leaders in and out 
immediately. 

398
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,600
Michael penix was out by the 
second, Big Ten game, it's all 

399
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,800
happening together. 
And so it's not like it's only 

400
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,300
that they struggled. 
Early and then quit on the 

401
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:23,800
season ever. 
You know maybe you sort of check

402
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,500
out on the season because you're
also looking around and being 

403
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:27,300
like well yeah of course we're 
not gonna be able to do this 

404
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,600
because we're running a walk on 
out at quarterback and our 

405
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,700
entire defensive backfield is is
broken right now and like you 

406
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:39,000
know so just did this just isn't
going to work and I will say 

407
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,800
this this is one of the few ways
in which I will ever compare my 

408
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,200
own athletic experience to to 
what like a big ten football 

409
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,300
player. 
Does, I played on two really bad

410
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:49,300
football teams in high. 
A school. 

411
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,500
We went Owen, 10 twice and I can
tell you right now. 

412
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,500
We all thought we were playing 
hard week, 10. 

413
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,100
Like, we all believed we were 
practicing hard. 

414
00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:01,400
We were focused, we, but, but we
knew that the number two team in

415
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,900
the state was going to come in 
and kick our ass on Friday. 

416
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:07,400
And then the season was going to
be over, and we wouldn't have to

417
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,000
deal with it anymore. 
And we could tell ourselves all 

418
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,800
we wanted that we were still 
playing hard. 

419
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,200
We were still trying hard 
everything but like Tucker was 

420
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,400
coming with its three Georgia 
commits. 

421
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,800
In the kid, that was going to 
get draft to play baseball at 

422
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,200
quarterback and they were going 
to kill us. 

423
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,900
And then we weren't gonna have 
to worry about it anymore. 

424
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:29,500
And there does come a point 
where you lose some, I think, 

425
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:32,600
you know, where you sort of 
disengage slowly almost without 

426
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,600
realizing it. 
And so I think that In terms of 

427
00:24:36,608 --> 00:24:39,000
what happened last year and this
is a long answer for giving 

428
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,500
that's spinning, it forward to 
this year. 

429
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,300
I think a big piece of it is 
basically just resetting 

430
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,200
Ambitions. 
You've got a lot of transfers in

431
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,700
that probably feel like they 
have something to prove like a 

432
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:51,700
counter basil a crash on 
chivers. 

433
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,800
You've got some freshmen in who 
aren't going to come in and 

434
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,400
think I'm here to get Indiana to
the Pinstripe Bowl. 

435
00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:00,000
They're going to come in and 
think I bought into the Indiana.

436
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,400
That was going to the Gator. 
Bowl the Outback Bowl. 

437
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:07,100
That's what I'm here for. 
But you still have what seems 

438
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:12,300
like a hardened and recommitted 
core of seniors veterans 

439
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:15,500
leaders, who spent the entire 
offseason being very honest 

440
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:19,400
about what went wrong as a 
mechanism for making sure that 

441
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,800
it gets put, right? 
So again for giving that was a 

442
00:25:23,808 --> 00:25:27,200
long answer when you go from, 
you know 14 and 7 over 2 years 

443
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,600
at a job at a place like Indiana
to 2 and 10 that there's there's

444
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,900
no short answer to what happened
but I think if you That's what I

445
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:37,100
saw is sort of what went wrong 
and then, of course, there's 

446
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:39,400
other things. 
Like the offense just could not 

447
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,400
solve this increasing list of 
problems. 

448
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,500
Like as the quarterback 
Merry-Go-Round kept spinning, 

449
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:49,000
they couldn't, you know, Nick 
Sheridan. 

450
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,700
Just nobody could ever get the 
line right. 

451
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,000
There was no running back depth.
We can keep going on and on, but

452
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,500
I think those are the three big 
things and I think they all kind

453
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:05,700
of came together together and I 
think they, You know, I think it

454
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:08,300
just if you kind of spin it 
forward to where Indiana is. 

455
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,000
Now, I think the biggest thing 
is just sort of almost, like I 

456
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,600
said, just resetting Ambitions 
after, you know, maybe a year of

457
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:20,400
feeling like you lost lost. 
Grip of those. 

458
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,100
One of the odd aspects of the IU
fan, football program 

459
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:30,800
relationship right now is how 
perceptions of Tom Allen play 

460
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,100
into the way that people feel 
about the program and Alan's, He

461
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,100
is been an interesting spot here
because he's spent his first 

462
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:41,300
couple of years. 
As head coach really, trying to 

463
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,600
Galvanize fans and kind of 
promising them. 

464
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,800
That there was going to be a 
breakthrough that was literally 

465
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,200
the slogan for the program that 
first year that he was there. 

466
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,600
That didn't really come when the
Breakthrough did come it, it was

467
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:57,300
surprising and galvanizing. 
I think for a lot of IU fans and

468
00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:00,400
then it gets followed up with a 
really good season in 2020 and 

469
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,500
we can debate the how good 20 He
actually was I mean there was 

470
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,500
some luck involved with when 
they caught certain teams and 

471
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,200
and they were all so good 
performance as it wasn't like it

472
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,700
was one of the other thing. 
But then a lot of the criticism 

473
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,700
that I see of Alan now and and 
to be fair, I think that's been 

474
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:20,800
the same kind of criticism. 
We've seen his whole career, 

475
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,200
it's just been a change in 
volume and the number of people 

476
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,500
who've had these issues has 
been, you know, how like how 

477
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:32,600
skilled is he actually as a 
strategist in terms of football,

478
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:35,500
he's clearly had success as a 
Offensive coordinator and a guy 

479
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:39,700
running a defense. 
His his coaching in terms of 

480
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:43,600
game day strategy has sometimes 
been called into question. 

481
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,600
I think reasonably so and it's 
hiring of assistance has been up

482
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,000
and down. 
You know, clearly hit Gold by 

483
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
bringing in Kalin to bore Cain 
Wommack ended up turning into a 

484
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,600
really good defensive 
coordinator but then you've got 

485
00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:59,000
what happened with Nick 
Sheridan. 

486
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:02,500
You've got Charlton, Warren who 
was only there for a year and 

487
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:04,800
left for a lesser position. 
I swear. 

488
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:08,300
And now you have a new set of 
coordinators what with Alan 

489
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:12,600
jumping back in to a role that 
he pulled out of a few years ago

490
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,900
because he said he needed to 
concentrate on the whole team. 

491
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:17,500
So that's a long way of asking 
you. 

492
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:20,900
Like how should how do you 
evaluate Allen at this point in 

493
00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:24,900
his career and how much should I
you fans be willing to trust his

494
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:28,700
decision making process along 
those higher line strategic and 

495
00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:31,200
tactical items? 
Yeah. 

496
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,000
That's a good question and I 
don't think there is I mean Mike

497
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,200
Cop out to begin with is I don't
think there is a perfect answer 

498
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,500
to it or even something 
resembling it. 

499
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:44,000
I do think coach perception is 
and I believe this forever is 

500
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,400
always driven by results. 
And that the example I always 

501
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:53,000
use is Kirk Ferentz, you know, 
when when Iowa is and he's had a

502
00:28:53,008 --> 00:28:56,700
couple of stretches where maybe 
Iowa has two losing seasons and 

503
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:00,600
three in the, the one winning 
season is kind of underwhelming 

504
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,200
and they're losing their rivalry
games. 

505
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,900
And You know that they all of a 
sudden it's he doesn't know how 

506
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:11,800
to recruit a quarterback. 
This offense is old and stale, 

507
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:14,600
look at this guy on the 
sidelines, he's boring, how can 

508
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,100
these players, you know, be 
excited to play for him and then

509
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,100
he'll do the Kirk Ferentz thing 
where then he tears off like 28 

510
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,600
wins and three you know, three 
years or 30 wins and three 

511
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,200
years. 
And suddenly it's it's just the 

512
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,600
Kirk Ferentz way. 
Is there a more consistent coach

513
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,400
in the Big Ten? 
Yeah, sure. 

514
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,300
What he does is old-school. 
It's not modern, but man, it 

515
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:39,200
works for Iowa. 
That's their identity and they 

516
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,600
stick to it. 
And look at, you know, they just

517
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,700
want 11 games and they went to 
the Rose Bowl, you know, I get 

518
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:49,700
it, your results, ultimately our
and I was just met with Tom 

519
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,000
crean to and people would be 
like our Tom crean is just out 

520
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,100
of control on the sideline. 
It's like the first five years. 

521
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:56,800
You love that. 
Like you you love that Tom was 

522
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,200
Talking the sideline all the 
time and was you know was just 

523
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,900
was like intensely into it was 
high energy and all that until 

524
00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:08,800
suddenly it felt you suddenly 
perceived that that wasn't right

525
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,100
that that that was somehow sort 
of holding Tom back for lack of 

526
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:15,600
a better term. 
I think that Allen's 

527
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,300
personality, Is always going to 
be a big part of his coach. 

528
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,900
I don't think he's Nick Saban 
and I don't think there's a 

529
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,400
point at which anybody should 
have her probably did believe, 

530
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,700
he was Nick Saban. 
Alan's a big part of Alan's 

531
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:39,700
strength in that job is always 
going to be tied to his ability 

532
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,400
to basically instill that 
passion in other people. 

533
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,400
And that means that sometimes it
Probably is going to be passion 

534
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,100
over performance if you 
understand what I mean and that 

535
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:57,600
means that you know, no I would 
not expect Tom Allen to be 

536
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,400
sitting there drawing up plays 
in the dirt. 

537
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,800
Like you know I mean you know 
who's a genius offensive coach? 

538
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,600
I'm trying to you know like I'm 
struggling here all of a sudden 

539
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,300
like who's made an offense and 
on a Chip Kelly like you 

540
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:13,500
understand what I'm saying? 
I don't joke killer. 

541
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,800
Yes yeah yeah. 
I mean like you know some some 

542
00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:20,300
you know, revolutionary Savant 
like Joe tiller or Steve 

543
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:23,700
Spurrier but like You know this 
is always true. 

544
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:27,100
Alan's been and when he's 
winning everybody's loves it and

545
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:31,300
not just in Bloomington like he 
he captured something in 2020 

546
00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:34,600
like the the country was in a 
bad place. 

547
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,400
We were all miserable and 
College football is looking for 

548
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,800
people to enjoy frankly and Tom 
Allen was one of them. 

549
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:48,300
And like I say this as someone 
who works incredibly hard to be 

550
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:51,800
objective in doing my job. 
It was so wholesome that that 

551
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,200
scene coming off the field 
against Wisconsin like in every 

552
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,600
one of his players stopping to 
hug him and Shout at the camera 

553
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,200
and all that kind of stuff like 
that. 

554
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,100
That is that is something that 
transcends just like, hey nice 

555
00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:06,600
wind team. 
Like, that's that is actually 

556
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,300
special and you don't get that. 
Everywhere you don't get that 

557
00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:12,400
with every winning season like 
you don't get that kind of that 

558
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,500
kind of Harmony or Unity or 
togetherness, you know? 

559
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:19,300
I mean and I even think about 
like you know, Tom Allen during 

560
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:21,900
the whole sort of black lives 
matter movement around George 

561
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:24,700
Floyd's death. 
When you know, when I think he 

562
00:32:24,708 --> 00:32:27,400
just tried to be very honest and
be like I just I just want to 

563
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,900
understand how my players are 
feeling. 

564
00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:32,000
This is clearly hurting them, 
and I do all I want to do is 

565
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,600
just try to understand. 
And if and if all that means is,

566
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,700
I'm going to sit there and I'm 
going to listen. 

567
00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:41,900
And just give them someone to 
talk to, for an hour or two 

568
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:44,000
hours, whatever it takes. 
I just want to try and 

569
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,100
understand, I think there was a 
lot about Tony and all that felt

570
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:49,800
very genuine and I think it was,
I think it genuinely was. 

571
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,100
And, you know, obviously in 
2020, it all sort of bundled 

572
00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:57,100
together to be this like 
magical. 

573
00:32:57,300 --> 00:32:58,700
Oh my god. 
Look, what I do football is 

574
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:02,400
doing but that was no different 
than what Tom Allen had been 

575
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,400
doing in 2019 or 2018 when 
people were frustrated 2017 when

576
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,700
people felt Indiana wasted an 
opportunity to, you know, to go 

577
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,600
to a bowl game. 
My point is in fact, probably 

578
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,600
did frankly, let me just be 
honest. 

579
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,800
My point is, that will always be
who Tom Allen is, and there are 

580
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,500
gonna be some days when you're 
frustrated by it. 

581
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:26,800
But there are also going to be 
some days when you surprise 

582
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:32,300
Nebraska in Lincoln to get your 
sixth win and let Fred glass, 

583
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,500
you know? 
Just just go pee on the 50-yard 

584
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:41,400
line for what Scott Frost said. 
and that's you know, especially 

585
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,200
when you're a football and I 
that's here's where I start to 

586
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:51,000
sound, you know, very sort of 
like What is the word a 

587
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,300
paternalistic? 
I start to sound very sort of 

588
00:33:57,100 --> 00:33:59,500
I'm talking down to you a little
bit. 

589
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:04,600
Is an IU football fan but like 
If you're a football like, 

590
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,500
that's the stuff, you should 
hold onto. 

591
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:09,800
And yes, don't get me wrong. 
Dream of going to the Rose Bowl.

592
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,800
That's great. 
That's as long as the Rose Bowl 

593
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,800
exists, which may not be much 
longer, who knows? 

594
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:20,000
But Like and if you ever get 
there, soak it all in. 

595
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,900
But like, the fundamental 
purpose of all this is just to 

596
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:24,800
enjoy it. 
Like, I don't understand people 

597
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,300
who can't enjoy sports unless 
they somehow culminate in 

598
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,300
winning something shiny like 
like that. 

599
00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:38,600
Like, that should be the goal. 
But ultimately if the only thing

600
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,300
that you can take in, this is a 
total tangent. 

601
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:44,000
If the only thing that you can 
take pleasure in the result, 

602
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,500
you're going to be disappointed.
Most of the time because Most of

603
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:49,199
the time somebody else is going 
to win. 

604
00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:52,500
Well, Jim and what? 
No, no, this is this isn't me 

605
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:54,699
saying just enjoy the Western 
Kentucky win. 

606
00:34:54,699 --> 00:34:56,500
And forget the 10 losses last 
year. 

607
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,400
What I'm this is, I've gone on a
tangent, but my point is with 

608
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,900
Tom Allen. 
The process is always going to 

609
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:07,100
be built on that passion. 
It is not an end. 

610
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:08,700
Listen. 
Sometimes he's going to do some 

611
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:13,000
stuff like go talk to people 
like Joe Moorhead about I mean 

612
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,400
like Joe Moorhead who was widely
considered a great offensive 

613
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,200
mind before he took a job. 
He probably shouldn't have as 

614
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:25,000
head coach at Mississippi State.
Joe Moorhead was like, Tom Allen

615
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,700
ran laps around me when Indiana 
played Pitt State, and I think 

616
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:32,200
it was 2016, possibly, and you 
can get other people like Jim 

617
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,100
Harbaugh. 
And I don't think it is just 

618
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:36,100
that coach thing of like talking
about coaches. 

619
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:38,000
You beat most of the time, very 
positively. 

620
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,900
And then, warring with the ones 
who beat you, most of the time, 

621
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,800
the Jim Harbaugh seems genuinely
fascinated by Tom Allen. 

622
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,600
And whatever you think of Jim 
Harbaugh, he's been a very 

623
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,200
successful head coach across the
course of his career. 

624
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:53,700
He has the respect of his peers.
I'm not saying this is all just 

625
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:58,600
sort of like vibes. 
But passion is always going to 

626
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,400
be part of it. 
Loyalty is always going to be 

627
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,000
part of it. 
This, this was a lot of what 

628
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,100
came up through, the whole 
Michael penix before he got 

629
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:05,200
hurt. 
Should they bench him? 

630
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,700
Should they not now in 
hindsight? 

631
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:08,600
Sure, you can sit there and say,
well, they should have benched 

632
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,100
him sooner. 
I don't know how much difference

633
00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:13,100
that would have made given. 
How much, how, given the breadth

634
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:15,600
of everything that was going 
wrong for Indiana in that 

635
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,000
moment. 
But like, Loyalty and trust 

636
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,800
those things are always going to
be part of it and maybe they'll 

637
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,300
be his undoing. 
Guess what? 

638
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:28,300
For a lot of coaches and this is
not just true of Tom Allen. 

639
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:31,000
It's not just true in football 
is not just true in college 

640
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,600
their strengths and their 
weaknesses. 

641
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,600
Don't live in, you know, starkly
different neighborhoods. 

642
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,800
They're actually just down the 
street from one another and 

643
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,100
sometimes coaches get undone by 
the very things that make them 

644
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:46,300
good coaches. 
And I think you, and I can find 

645
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:50,500
some very recent examples of 
that, just at this particular 

646
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,900
institution that we discuss on 
this podcast. 

647
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,400
Maybe that winds up being Tom. 
Allen's, I'm doing in one way or

648
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,900
another not giving up on a 
coach, or a player, whatever. 

649
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:02,800
And like, no, you're right. 
Not every not every stamping 

650
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,300
move. 
He's made has paid off that 

651
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:07,500
every Staffing move he's made 
has even been a good one and 

652
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:12,600
some have been good at times and
then eventually failed like Nick

653
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,100
Sheridan had some really good 
moments. 

654
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:17,900
In 2020 in a year where like 
offensive coordinators job for 

655
00:37:17,908 --> 00:37:20,900
very difficult. 
Then in 2021 boy he just had no 

656
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:24,000
answers at all. 
You know Kane Wommack didn't 

657
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,800
look like a particularly in hot 
inspired higher. 

658
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,700
I remember when it happened 
getting texts from a couple 

659
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:32,800
people like It's sort of like 
within the industry sort of 

660
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,400
around. 
I you not like within the 

661
00:37:34,408 --> 00:37:36,900
program being like, oh, he's 
he's only doing this because 

662
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:39,400
this is Dave Wommack son, like 
that's the only reason he's 

663
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,600
hiring him. 
This is total favoritism. 

664
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:47,000
And then like yeah a year later 
came Wommack is not only 

665
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,800
coordinate. 
I mean his coordinating, one of 

666
00:37:50,808 --> 00:37:53,400
the better football defenses 
I've ever seen. 

667
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:58,000
I mean they led the Big Ten and 
turnovers and sacks like that 

668
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,800
was with without without. 
Single, double digit, sack 

669
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,000
performer, the Big Ten, and 
turnovers and sacks. 

670
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,200
And now King Wommack is a head 
coach but then, yes, I can fight

671
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,500
like Charlton, Warren did not 
work and by the end of last 

672
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,000
season and certainly through 
this off season without 

673
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,400
necessarily blaming it on him, 
or calling him out or starting 

674
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,800
some war of words. 
Like, Allen has made it pretty 

675
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,100
clear that by the end of last 
season, they were not playing 

676
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:25,500
the defense he wanted. 
And that I think that's why he's

677
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:28,700
taking it over is because he's 
like, we're going to get back to

678
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,300
doing it my way. 
And then I'll turn it over to 

679
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:36,100
someone else again possibly. 
But my point is You can't have 

680
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:40,000
one without the other. 
It may eventually undermine time

681
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,000
Alan but this is who he is. 
This is this is this is the 

682
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,100
coach you got. 
And I'll tell you what I told 

683
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,600
when I told people for the first
two years, when they said, 

684
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,500
doesn't this breakthrough stuff 
can get tiring, doesn't this 

685
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,700
Elio stuff? 
Get tiring from my perspective. 

686
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:57,300
Sure. 
Yeah I'd rather come out and sit

687
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,500
there and explain things to me 
analytically because that's just

688
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:01,500
how I am. 
But that's just not for me and 

689
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:04,600
the minute that stuff starts to 
feel like it's for me and not 

690
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,400
his players. 
Coach has his family's, whatever

691
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,600
is the minute. 
I'll think he's done. 

692
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:16,000
So you know, this is just kind 
of who he is and I don't know 

693
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,400
that I fully answered your 
question other than to say like 

694
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:21,700
should they trust him? 
I think they should appreciate 

695
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:23,400
that. 
This is the way he's had success

696
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,400
and it may not mean that he can 
fix it, and it may not 

697
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,100
ultimately bring all this back 
and he may ultimately get fired.

698
00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:35,900
But I think the most we can ask 
of anyone in any Walk of Life, 

699
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:38,100
is Just to do the job to the 
best of their ability, the way. 

700
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:41,000
They know how And I think that's
what you get from Tom Allen. 

701
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:44,500
Now, I understand all of that. 
And I think that those are valid

702
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:47,500
points and, and certainly from 
an overarching, kind of 

703
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,700
attitudinal perspective. 
I think that there's, there's a 

704
00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:55,000
lot to take from that. 
I will say that, I think if 

705
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,500
there's a lack of trust or a an 
uncertainty about, Alan's actual

706
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:04,600
ability to maintain the momentum
that he had built with the 

707
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,600
program. 
It's, there's a real 

708
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,400
psychological reflex among. 
Many people who follow, are you 

709
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,400
football and have for a while? 
Like you said at the beginning, 

710
00:40:15,300 --> 00:40:17,900
when you get these sorts of 
Seasons, these two and ten 

711
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:22,200
Seasons, it rarely comes back 
under that regime, you know, and

712
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,800
you saw it under Mallory. 
You know, we never really saw it

713
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,200
under Kevin Wilson, but I think 
we might have been en route to 

714
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,900
seeing it under Kevin Wilson. 
Had that continued, you know, 

715
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:35,500
you and you've seen certain 
coaches that it's never got off 

716
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:39,200
the ground in the first place. 
And so I do Wonder to some Cory.

717
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,400
It's like when you think about 
the way that Alan has approached

718
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,500
things, you're right there have 
been successes, but there hadn't

719
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:50,200
been failure to the degree that 
we saw last year with this 

720
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,900
program and I think it's a 
reasonable perspective for a lot

721
00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:57,800
of IU fans to say, all right, 
well, we've seen now Alan, 

722
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,100
hopefully at the worst that 
we're going to see him. 

723
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,300
But is that the new normal? 
Because that does tend to be, 

724
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:05,700
how I you football has played 
out historically. 

725
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:08,300
Oh, yeah, I'm in. 
This is where I come back to 

726
00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:11,800
that day idea of nature versus 
nurture IU, fans have seen this 

727
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,300
movie before and I mean, I have 
like, I mean, I was a student in

728
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,200
2007, the Insight bowl that that
team came together across the 

729
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,100
course of three seasons. 
It probably should have gone to 

730
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:26,600
a bowl game the year before, you
know, it had that obviously 

731
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,000
tragedy with Terry Hefner and 
then that sort of triumphant 

732
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,900
moment of hitting the field goal
to be Purdue. 

733
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:38,900
And then the next year, it all 
fell apart and, and yes, you 

734
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,400
know, you'll lose a couple key 
pieces off that team namely 

735
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,600
James Hardie, but like, That 
team should not have been as bad

736
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:51,000
in 2008 as it was. 
And Bill inch never got that 

737
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,200
back and you know you bring up 
Bill Mallory that's fair. 

738
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,900
I mean I can find you others. 
Lee Corso flirted with, you 

739
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:59,800
know, sort of a greater level of
success for a little while 

740
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,200
before ultimately not being able
to sustain it. 

741
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,500
That is the history, the history
of value football. 

742
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,700
And to be clear, as I said 
earlier, I don't, you know, 

743
00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:13,000
let's say, ìyou, manages to go 6
and 6 this year gets to the 

744
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:15,200
Music City Bowl, which would be 
a lot of fun. 

745
00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:20,400
And they get into existence 
Zack, Dave, Dave Ramsey is 

746
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,000
listening, you know, president 
of the Music City Bowl. 

747
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,700
Just just, just keep it in mind,
Zach loves Nashville, What's a 

748
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:33,000
Indiana gets to Music City Bowl?
Let's say Indiana beats. 

749
00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:35,400
I don't know, you know, 
Missouri. 

750
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:38,300
Mike Leach is Mississippi state 
in the Music City. 

751
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:41,500
Oh, hey, that's good. 
Who's your media Bowl? 

752
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:43,700
I'm all for that. 
Everything's fixed. 

753
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:47,100
And I'm the football is just 
going to be good in perfect 

754
00:42:47,100 --> 00:42:51,500
know, like and guess what? 
Most coaches get fired. 

755
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,500
Even the good ones, like, Bobby 
Bowden. 

756
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,600
Basically got fired. 
A man who turned 42 State into a

757
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:05,800
cultural totem and changed the 
way we thought about, basically,

758
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,500
everything in college football. 
I mean, he essentially got 

759
00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:11,700
fired. 
He was a Hall of Famer. 

760
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,700
He was a legend, and my point in
this is most coaches, get fired 

761
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:23,700
in the end very few coaches. in,
get to determine the You know, 

762
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:28,700
the final the the sort of Last 
Exit of their career, that's 

763
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:31,900
just the reality of the job and 
you know it when you get into it

764
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,500
at some point in the future it 
is very possible. 

765
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:41,200
Indiana will have to fire time 
out just because Tom Allen could

766
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,400
have 10 great years and then if 
he has like three or four bad 

767
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,800
ones, that's the nature of the 
job. 

768
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:52,500
I'm not suggesting that if 
Indiana has whatever. 

769
00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:56,700
This is a good season in 2022. 
All Is Forgiven, all is 

770
00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:59,900
forgotten, and all is perfect 
forever. 

771
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:09,700
But We're like the again this 
this sort of like central theme 

772
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:13,100
that I keep shoving down. 
Everyone's throat is, are you 

773
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:19,500
footballs nature is basically 
what you're talking about here, 

774
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:21,800
which is that this is, this is 
the beginning of the end and 

775
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,100
then listen to it. 
May well be and there's a lot of

776
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:26,100
things. 
Well, you know, this kind of 

777
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:29,300
roster turnover, this kind of 
Staff turnover, this kind of 

778
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:32,200
radical sort of like new 
offense, you know, we're 

779
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,000
switching up, who's calling the 
plays, we do all these things. 

780
00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:38,900
Those are usually the Things 
that happen on the road to 

781
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:41,700
everybody getting fired. 
I totally get that. 

782
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,200
I think that there's a sort of 
separate conversation to be had 

783
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,100
about basically like how that 
calculus changes in the portal 

784
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:51,300
era because realistically 
Indiana is going to run out on 

785
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:58,800
offense, on September 4th that 
could at minimum could start a 

786
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:04,200
quarterback a running back. 
Three wide receivers and maybe 

787
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,300
an offensive lineman though 
right now I would suspect, 

788
00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:11,100
probably not just based on what 
wait time I was talked that all 

789
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:13,700
got to Indiana via the portal in
the last 24 months. 

790
00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:20,200
So, like the portal changes 
everything in a way and we don't

791
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,700
fully understand how yet. 
Well it's an interesting. 

792
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:26,300
There's an interesting thing 
with this as well. 

793
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:28,800
It's not just that you're right 
and Indiana. 

794
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,100
I think there's somebody is 
going to have to live in the 

795
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:36,300
portal because of Ni L the the 
relative lack of structure 

796
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,800
around Indiana football and IL 
compared to the teams that 

797
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,400
they're competing against but 
also and I think it's you have 

798
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,700
to keep in mind two things. 
Things one is pretty much going 

799
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:49,200
to be the same team for the next
two years with the potential, 

800
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,400
certainly of some guys leaving 
an or coming back, but Allen's 

801
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,400
talked about how the recruiting 
class is going to be small this 

802
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,600
year because there are going to 
be a whole lot of people leaving

803
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,800
next year. 
So you're going to have a 

804
00:45:58,808 --> 00:46:02,100
relatively stable group and 
let's be honest. 

805
00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:04,800
Tom Allen's got one of the 
biggest buyouts in college 

806
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,200
football right now, you know, it
would cost. 

807
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,700
What 300? 
Everybody's about to like 

808
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:12,300
money's not going to be an 
object for long, right? 

809
00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:14,900
But that media deal doesn't 
Again, until the fiscal year, 

810
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:17,200
twenty three, right? 
So we're talking about 

811
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,000
essentially, it's almost 
financially impossible, even if 

812
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,400
I you wanted to fire out. 
And I'm not advocating that they

813
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,800
do, which gives Alan a weird 
kind of like three year window 

814
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,000
here to demonstrate that the to 
attend was a fluke. 

815
00:46:31,100 --> 00:46:34,000
I am interested to see how about
all those factors play in 

816
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,300
because it isn't, that is the 
one thing that makes it a bit 

817
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:39,100
different from some of the 
scenarios you're describing that

818
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:41,800
have happened in the past where 
things start to fall apart 

819
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,300
quickly. 
And then it's inevitable that 

820
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:45,200
there might be A change. 
I don't know that that's 

821
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,900
necessarily the case here. 
And also, you know, I you 

822
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:52,100
football fans are as passionate 
as anybody but like, you know, 

823
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,500
like Brian Parsons getting fired
at Alden. 

824
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,200
I mean like you know I'm like I 
know how it goes in a place like

825
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,400
Auburn you know or Georgia or 
somewhere like that where like 

826
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,800
once you reach a certain point, 
you there's too much passion, 

827
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,400
there's too much hysteria around
it IU. 

828
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,700
Football will always be a little
bit calmer than that just 

829
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:15,300
because it is not. 
Maybe the this, the central 

830
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:18,000
sport in, you know, kind of the 
in. 

831
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,000
I mean like I've put it this 
way. 

832
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,500
Kevin Wilson, got five years. 
Archie Miller got four. 

833
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:26,900
I think that, I mean, you know 
what I mean? 

834
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,000
That, I think that's, that's a 
little bit of a difference in 

835
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,300
IU. 
Football fan culture, you'd give

836
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:36,000
Kevin Wilson five years now, 
maybe not anymore, because the 

837
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,800
money is again, about to be a 
lot bigger. 

838
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:43,000
But I think you understand what 
I'm saying, but where you get to

839
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,900
nurture, instead of nature is 
I'm sitting here looking at this

840
00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:51,500
roster. 
You've got 12 sixth year players

841
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,700
players who have been in Indiana
For all of tha malins tenure, 

842
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:06,300
you've got one, two, three, 
four, fifth year players that 

843
00:48:06,300 --> 00:48:09,600
either have been here, all five 
years or have been here long 

844
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,300
enough to, I think be classified
as part of the core group, in 

845
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:18,300
case of Jack total. 
Then you've got Matthew Bedford.

846
00:48:18,300 --> 00:48:23,200
Sean Rancher see you in a funk 
guitar Taiwan. 

847
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,300
Mullen I'm just kind of 
scrolling down here but you know

848
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:33,700
Mike kaduk Tim Weaver Bo Robbins
Josh sanguinetti. 

849
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:36,500
These are all players who are 
entering their fourth years in 

850
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:39,400
Indiana. 
Again I get back to what I said 

851
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:45,300
before is the the people trying 
to lead this revival know what 

852
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:49,800
85 looks like or what 6 and 2 
looks like, they actually know 

853
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,500
what it looks like a lot better 
than they know it two and ten 

854
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:57,100
looks like I think part of what 
happens and you know somebody 

855
00:48:57,100 --> 00:49:00,500
from that 2007 Insight Bowl team
is listening and thinks I'm flat

856
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:03,100
out wrong like Zach Osterman. 
Zach that Osterman an Indy 

857
00:49:03,100 --> 00:49:05,200
star.com. 
I'd love to hear their 

858
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,000
perspective. 
But part of what I think, In 07.

859
00:49:10,300 --> 00:49:15,500
is Indiana feels like You know, 
sort of the task has been 

860
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:17,300
completed when it gets to that 
bowl game. 

861
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,100
And when it gets hard again, 
it's not that difficult for 

862
00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:23,100
everybody to revert back to 
where Indiana was, you know, 18 

863
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:25,900
months earlier or 24 months 
earlier, which is four and 

864
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:29,300
seven, three and eight, all that
kind of stuff. 

865
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:35,500
The reality is for Indiana, is 
that since 2013, Indiana has 15 

866
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:39,300
or more games every season, save
one up until last year. 

867
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:44,700
And it only only twice in that. 
What from from 13 to 20 is what 

868
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:48,800
7 years. 
Only twice in those 7 years. 8 

869
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,600
years, 8 years, only twice. 
In those eight years. 

870
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,400
Did Indiana. 
Not going to the final game of 

871
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,700
the season. 
Either already Bowl eligible or 

872
00:49:55,700 --> 00:49:58,700
playing for Bowl eligibility. 
And those are the first two 

873
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:00,700
years of that stretch. 
Indiana, had a six-year stretch 

874
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:04,300
were either at went to a bowl 
every year or either an end of 

875
00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:06,800
the season in the bowl filled or
it went into the Purdue game, 

876
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,400
five and six playing for a spot 
in the bowl filled and the only 

877
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,200
one of those years that wasn't 
at least five wins is the year 

878
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,800
that Nate side felt shoulder. 
Jury just completely derails the

879
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,400
offense and Kevin Wilson's. 
Well, what really derails, the 

880
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,900
offense is Kevin Wilson's, 
quarterback roster management 

881
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:28,800
and affected. 
His backup is a true freshman 

882
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,800
who was, you know, way 
physically ready, all respect is

883
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,100
an edema for the Big Ten. 
I mean I think even Xander would

884
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:37,000
probably admit that. 
He just had that point in his 

885
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,300
career, the physical demands of 
that position. 

886
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:46,800
We're going to be too much for 
my point is like it's not Just 

887
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,300
like Indiana had a couple good 
years out of nowhere, like 

888
00:50:50,300 --> 00:50:53,000
Indiana had been building this 
for a while. 

889
00:50:54,200 --> 00:51:01,900
And when when Indiana had the 
season that it had in 2020, I 

890
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:08,400
think a lot of a lot of us kind 
of looked around and said you 

891
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,200
know like well hey this is this 
is actually kind of what Indiana

892
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,800
has been doing you know if you 
really if you really look at it 

893
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:21,100
this is this is sort of what 
Indiana has has been building 

894
00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:23,300
toward. 
Maybe this this year, 2020 being

895
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:27,800
kind of You know, the the 
absolute sort of best best case 

896
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,500
scenario but like it shouldn't 
be surprising that a team to win

897
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:37,100
18 for last year with a one 
touchdown loss in Penn State and

898
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:39,200
effectively, I think they lost 
by 9. 

899
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,600
But like really in terms of the 
competitiveness of the game, a 

900
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,000
free point loss at Michigan 
State that then returned a lot 

901
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,400
of that, it shouldn't be 
shocking. 

902
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,900
That that team has gone up 
another level, that's what made 

903
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:53,400
last year. 
So, jarring to me, Watching on, 

904
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,800
you know, sort of, you know, 
from a neutral perspective was 

905
00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:59,700
you actually have this 
progression of like Indiana is 

906
00:51:59,700 --> 00:52:02,300
getting better and better and it
lasted over multiple coaching 

907
00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:04,800
staffs. 
It lasted over multiple roster 

908
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,900
Cycles. 
It lasted over multiple 

909
00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:11,100
offenses, to some extent. 
Anyway, multiple defenses, it 

910
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:14,300
lasted over multiple 
quarterbacks, you had all 

911
00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:16,600
Americans on both sides of the 
ball. 

912
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,200
You know, it wasn't like you 
just hit on two really good, 

913
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,300
recruiting classes and just rode
that on now. here's the, here's 

914
00:52:23,300 --> 00:52:27,200
the one thing I will say about 
kind of long-term future is This

915
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,100
Indiana team. 
If this if the season is going 

916
00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:31,000
to be approved to be a 
turnaround, is going to count 

917
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,000
pretty heavily on guys that are 
not gonna be around a lot 

918
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,600
longer. 
And that's where I think you 

919
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,300
start to, you do start to ask 
the question of Tom, Allen of 

920
00:52:39,100 --> 00:52:41,900
whether you're an X's and O's 
genius, or not, whether you're 

921
00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:45,300
whether you're coaching ability 
is more centered, and passion, 

922
00:52:45,300 --> 00:52:48,300
and persistence and work ethic 
and belief in the intangibles. 

923
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,700
Here's where you need to prove. 
You can do something the 

924
00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:54,000
sustains that you can build a 
culture that going back to the 

925
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,200
Kirk Ferentz. 
Example, maybe there's some lean

926
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,600
years, but ultimately everybody 
trusts and believes in the 

927
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,500
method of doing things enough, 
that you're going to have more 

928
00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:09,600
good years than that. but with 
this team right now, You know, 

929
00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:13,500
this group. 
Would be allowed to look at last

930
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:15,100
year and say, no. 
We're never doing that again 

931
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:16,200
because we never did that 
before. 

932
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,300
That's, that's not us all of 
this other success is US. 

933
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:24,400
Dominating, Maryland, and 
Rutgers beating Purdue upsetting

934
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,400
Nebraska on the road, the 2020 
season at least to some extent, 

935
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:30,500
that's us. 
That's what we're capable of. 

936
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:35,000
That's what we're doing. 
Like, last year that was like, 

937
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,800
that, that was just a bad dream 
and that's where I think there 

938
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,200
is. 
This this tension of like, Which

939
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,700
sort of wins the roster that has
every right to believe that it 

940
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:51,400
is better than this or the 
program that has struggled to 

941
00:53:51,400 --> 00:54:02,400
escape this identity for 75 
years. 120 years but yes nothing

942
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,900
happened. 
There's plenty of national 

943
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:10,000
championships claimed by 
programs pre-World War Two but 

944
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,400
no I take your point. 
Yeah. 

945
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,100
So anyway well we'll stop here. 
I'm sure we'll talk with you 

946
00:54:16,100 --> 00:54:17,900
again as we get a little bit 
closer to the start of the 

947
00:54:17,900 --> 00:54:20,000
Season. 
There's going to be certainly 

948
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,300
some more news, some more 
observations we can dive into. 

949
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,700
What exactly this IU offense is 
going to be if we're ever going 

950
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:27,600
to learn, if we're really going 
to have to wait until the 

951
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:29,600
kickoff of the Illinois game, 
but Zach. 

952
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,200
Thanks for joining us on the 
show is always appreciate your 

953
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,300
time and look forward to reading
you throughout the course of the

954
00:54:35,300 --> 00:54:38,900
Season at Indy star.com. 
Thanks for having me, as always,

955
00:54:38,900 --> 00:54:41,100
thanks for letting me. 
I feel like I did a lot more 

956
00:54:41,100 --> 00:54:42,900
talking than listening. 
I apologize. 

957
00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:46,000
Hey, you know what, we always 
appreciate your observations on 

958
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,600
thing. 
So not a problem at all. 

959
00:54:47,700 --> 00:54:50,200
Thanks to all you folks for 
listening in, we will be back 

960
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,900
with more IU football coverage. 
Over the next couple of weeks as

961
00:54:53,908 --> 00:54:57,100
we get ready for Indiana, taking
on Illinois to start the 2022 

962
00:54:57,100 --> 00:54:58,100
season. 
I'm Kailyn Javi. 

963
00:54:58,100 --> 00:55:00,900
Okay. you folks on the flip 
side, bring back the Bison, so 

964
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:01,400
everybody