You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
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It's still the 23rd of January at the date of this recording.
I really appreciate you folks tuning back in.
Dropping multiple episodes on your audience in one day is
sometimes found upon in podcast land, but I have full faith in
you as the audience that you can digest these.
I know you folks meter them out as necessary, and a lot of you
have drives that you have to make from here to there.
And if I do nothing else in my life, if I can give you folks
content that you don't want to turn off, I feel like I'm maybe
contributing something positive to the zeitgeist.
So anyway, we've got Jared Morris, a man with plenty of
zeitgeist, joining us here In just a couple of minutes to talk
about IU basketball. We had a a pretty good, pretty
robust conversation. I thought about a variety of
different things related to this team, to fandom.
Maybe I got two negative at times, maybe I I'm not sure.
I'll let you decide, but I thought it was a really
fascinating convo. So I hope you enjoy it.
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Anyway, we're going to go and bring Jared on now from Assembly
call. As I said, we talked about a lot
regarding IU basketball, pretty good conversation.
I think you'll enjoy it. Let's get to it.
And in back home network crossover episode land, I'm not
sure if if your homicide life on the street and I'm law and order
or actually I think Crimson Cast is probably homicide and
Assembly call is probably law and order I'm guessing.
Would that, would you agree with that?
It is any show that harbors Ryan Phillips.
Should it be considered law and order?
I don't. Know that's a fair.
Well, I figured it was like, it's one of those weird spin
offs of law and order like, you know, like SUV, Temecula or
something like that. So yes, let's just go with that.
It's probably good. Anyway, Jared Morris from the
Assembly call joining us on the show.
Good to talk to you my friend, as we are midweek.
There's nothing going on with IU basketball, at least on the
men's side as they don't play till Saturday.
So we thought we would get together and talk a little bit.
First of all, welcome. Good to have you here.
Thank you. It's actually, it's perfect
timing. You know, it's not right after a
disappointing loss where the emotions are running high.
It's not right before a tough game where the anxiety is
running high. It's like we've got this week to
kind of relax, kind of take things in.
And it's interesting like I, you know, I've been just, you know,
kind of looking at numbers and different stuff and I really,
you know, find myself just kind of going back and forth between,
oh, well, that's kind of better than I thought it was.
Oh, well, that's kind of worse so that, you know.
And so it's just, it's just a really, it's a really weird
season, a strange one to contextualize and just try to
figure out how to feel about. So looking forward to exploring
that with you here. I can't wait.
You know, these podcasts are essentially just psychotherapy
for ourselves and we just let you folks in on the sessions.
It's delightful. There's actually a a mental
health professional off camera in both of our homes.
Just got a coaching both of us through this conversation.
So yeah, I know it's interesting.
If you haven't listened yet folks, check out the podcast
that I did with Zach Osterman from the Indy Star 'cause we
kind of delve I think into similar territory to what we're
going to be talking about here, at least to some degree.
But here we have Indiana Basketball, 12 and 7, four and
four in conference. On the one hand, you've got a
program that we all said, hey, that's probably going to be a
bit of a rebuilding year. It's probably not going to go
that smoothly. There's going to be some growing
pains. And I think there might be a
perception externally like why are you people so upset?
Why? Why is there so you know such
angst around the way Indiana basketball has been playing and
and certainly angst is our stock and trade.
It feels like from an IU fan base perspective, that's been
the the modus operandi here for a while.
However, the flip side of it is this is an Indiana team that has
not looked good essentially the whole season.
They have one win of questionable quality, and that
is a home win against an Ohio State team that looks like it
has stepped through a trap door on its own season.
They've been run off the floor by superior competition now in
multiple games throughout the course of the season, and while
there have been individual improvements with certain
players, Mackenzie and Bako's played better.
Certainly, you know, Khalil Ware has certainly rounded into a
good player. It just the whole thing feels
both unsatisfying and foreboding, I think to a lot of
IU fans. How off or on am I with those
statements, Jared and and you know, how do you analyze it as
you're looking at things here basically 2/3 of the way through
the season? I mean, yeah, I I think that
describes it very well. Like we all knew it was going to
be a much rougher season obviously than the last couple.
I mean, you're trying to replace Trace Jackson Davis and Jalen
Hutchefino, not to mention experienced guys like Race
Thompson and Miller Cobb. And so I think everybody
understood that certainly in the beginning this was not going to
look much like what it did the last couple of years in terms of
cohesion and just play on the court.
That is exactly what we have seen.
And I think if you told anybody that you know through however
many games Indiana's played, 19 games, that you would get this
level of production from Xavier Johnson, who everybody
pinpointed as the most important player on the roster in the
offseason. People would have been even more
fearful of what this season would look like.
You know, and I think some of those fears were baked into the
preseason, you know, predictions, you know, both the,
you know, just the analyst ones, the subjective ones and the and
the objective ones like Ken Palm, which had Indiana down at
50. So all of that stuff is baked
in, I think, you know. And so I think it's fair when
people say, well, you know, you should have expected that this
wasn't going to be that great of a season.
There's still 12 and seven. Like, I get all of that.
I think what the problem is, I mean, I think there's a couple
problems. You know, one is obviously some
of the stuff that people see with the flagrant fowls and the
lack of composure and kind of the seeming lack of
accountability and maybe discipline within the program,
which is very hard to judge from the outside.
I mean, all we see is the 40 minutes on the court.
And so you see some of that stuff and it's like, Oh my God,
like what is going on with this program right now?
And in the absence of, you know, being at practice and seeing
what kind of accountability is there, you combine that with the
results and it's like what kind of foundation is being built.
And I think again, without the concrete information, people's
minds kind of rushed to the worst possible place to me when
I've really tried to uncover like what is, what is my issue
with this team when I watch it, You know, it is the results and
all of that. There's no question.
I mean those I think could and should be better just based on
the talent that we have. But I think what's really
happening is that a lot of the red flags that some people kind
of saw the first couple years when it came to style of play.
You know the way that Coach Woodson wants to run defense,
the way that he wants to run offense, how that in many ways
contrasts with what we see in modern basketball.
There were questions about this the first two seasons.
But because Trace was so good, because Jalen was such an
anomaly in how he was offensively, where he was more
comfortable in the inefficient spots than other players are, it
covered up some of those things. And so I get frustrated, you
know, where my frustration really kind of bubbled over some
during the Wisconsin game is OK. You see this roster that's
incomplete, that just doesn't have the right pieces to compete
with good teams. That's fair.
Like we almost surely weren't going in there and beating this
Wisconsin team with this Indiana roster.
But it felt watching the game to me, like you had players that
were really trying, but it's almost like they were playing
with their hands tied behind their back because the strategic
choices we were making were not putting us in an advantageous
position. Whether it came to shot
selection, whether it came to the shots that we were willing
to give up to Wisconsin. And you see this in some of the
numbers. You know, like you know some of
the shooting numbers that that we were talking about right
before we went live. You know, Indiana's very low
nationally in three-point and rim rate, which means we take a
lot of shots in the mid range that don't lead to efficient
offense. Defensively, what we prioritize
right now allows teams to take a lot of threes and so these
things start to add up and I don't think it's just angst
about what is happening on the court with this team this
season. It's what does the foundation
look like moving forward? And even if, if Mike Woodson is
able to recruit better in the offseason, get a more complete
roster, are there still strategic and philosophical
choices we're making that are going to make it hard to
maximize that? And so I think a lot of that
angst is not, it's not quite as much about this season.
It's about, man, what is the ceiling of this right now?
And so I think those two things combined, you know, are kind of
leading to some of this, certainly, you know, at least in
my mind. And maybe that's just, you know,
because I've had my head buried so deep in numbers and trying to
understand this and figure it out.
But it is, you know, kind of hard to to to process a little
bit in some ways. Now it's it's interesting
because I don't know how. I don't know if the fan base in
general is thinking about things quite as deeply as you are.
They may be I I I don't want to sell our fans short.
I'm sure many of them have had thoughts you know in some way
shape or form similar to that. I I think they're.
Some of those things are more intuitive to the like to to IU
fans. They don't necessarily need to
see it in the numbers, they just they don't need to go to shot
quality and see like what where we ranked in shots.
They could just I would advise. I would advise people not go to
shot quality to see. No.
I will say I mean without, without, without it being more
programmatic and more just kind of a qualitative like, here's
what I'm seeing when I watch this team.
It's just an unattractive style of basketball.
On the offensive end. It's despite being faster than
people think that they're playing, they don't play with a
lot of fluidity. Everything seems very overly
rigid and certainly there are players that thrive offensively
in terms of pure numbers, Malik renews numbers look very good.
Khalil Ware's numbers look very good.
Mackenzie and Baca's numbers are getting better.
But even last year, I would argue, and the year before with
Trace, Jackson, Davis and and with some of the other personnel
that made-up that, those rosters, the offense under Mike
Woodson has never looked particularly attractive.
Now that's not a prerequisite. And you know, we often bring up
like Virginia, which got talked about in the podcast with
Osterman. Like, do you trade a lack of
aesthetic quality for the ability to win a lot of games?
The problem with IU is they don't have an aesthetically
pleasing team offensively and they're not winning big games.
They're not dictating things. I do think, you know, from my
perspective, I I try to think about, OK, how mad am I about
the way that things are going this year versus how concerned
am I overarchingly about the program and and do I?
Am I? Am I?
Is it a problem if I'm conflating those two things?
And I think for me, this year, the problem with this team is
that there just doesn't appear to be a plan in terms of like
what the players think they're supposed to do as far as the
core system of IU and the way. And somebody might push back and
say, well, no, they clearly have a plan, but they're not adapting
out of it particularly well. Either way, that's not a plan.
To me, if the plan is going to get abused consistently by
better opponents that that seems more like a scheme rather than a
plan, that's a concern. But the to me, the bigger issue
this year, and this is where it spills over for me into future
years, is that there's a good amount of talent on the roster.
It may not be talent in the spots you necessarily would
prefer it to be in, and you've had an injury issue with Xavier
Johnson. But what's concerning is that if
you look across the roster, you got a player like Malik, Malik,
Renew, who's gotten better from last year.
Who are the other players that came back from last year?
Trey Galloway looks like he's taking a step backwards.
In some ways he's been about as good, if not slightly better
than others. But he he's clearly not able to
to contribute offensively at the same degree because he's trying
to do too many things. You recruited Caleb Banks who
was a top 100 recruit who can barely get on the floor.
You recruited CJ Gunner. You sustained his recruitment.
Who was, you know, what 120th ranked player?
Who, even when he's not getting, you know, the a flagrant called
on him has really struggled with any kind of continuity or
consistency in his play. And the solution I see a lot of
people floating is, well, they clearly need to go get different
players who can contribute in the system.
That doesn't seem like a long term prospect for growth when
the players that you chose to have in your system haven't
grown into those roles. I don't know what the answer to
that is because ultimately a lot of this era of college
basketball is not just about what scheme are you running?
And you know, what does Mike Woodson want to do on the floor?
But it's about how does your roster construction contribute
to what you're doing? And that seems to be a missing
piece that got masked somewhat last year, but is definitely
yielding itself in spades this year.
How do you have confidence if you're the average IU fan,
seeing what you're seeing? The things are going to
magically get better when you're almost guaranteed to lose one of
your top scorers, you know, to the NBA Draft.
And you could lose more than that.
It just it seems like a very daunting thing to think about as
a fan. You know, I actually think from
a roster perspective, it's easier for me to have optimism
about improving the roster. And I say that because you know
what? I think this offseason, I think
the staff and specifically Woody, who's obviously the one
making the final choices, I think they just made some bets
that at the time made some sense and haven't worked out.
You know, they, you know, originally Xavier Johnson wasn't
supposed to be here and he got that sixth year waiver and they
decided, OK, we're going to roll with Xavier Johnson.
You know, as our point guard this year.
And given what you saw from him at the end of of 2022, and even
what you saw from him in brief spurts last season before he got
hurt like the Xavier game, like the North Carolina game, that
made sense. I certainly can't argue with it
because I was arguing all offseason that Xavier is one of
the best point guards in the Big 10 and so you have a sixth year
guy. It makes some sense to roll with
him. That also means that now you're
not going to be able to go out and get, you know, another
portal guard because those guys are going to want minutes.
They bet on Trey Galloway to be able to be, you know, the
starting two guard to be able to continue flourishing in a higher
usage role than he had last year.
You are right. You know, at times he hasn't
produced like we need him to. I put that blame more on the
roster construction in the role he's being asked to play than
him. I think Trey, I mean of anybody
tries his damnedest every game and a lot of the times when he's
doing stuff that you're like Trey, no, it's because a guy is
being asked to be a go to scorer who isn't comfortable in that
and I don't think he always picks his spots well.
Sometimes he does. You know Kansas, he was great.
He's at other games where he where he has been.
I I think he's a little overexposed for what he's able
to do. Now you've got.
You know you may disagree with that.
Well, here's the one thing. I hear this over and over and I
understand it and and there's a real hesitancy on the part of
anybody to criticize Trey Galloway.
And I get it, but we've been saying that since the first
month of the season, like after a while, it is incumbent upon
you as a leader if you are, if you are overextending yourself
every single game, to dial it back a little bit because it's
causing more problems than it's solving, That would be the only
thing that I would push back on there.
And I do agree and and look and Mike Woodson has been very
clear, he's got to get more from his senior guards, There's no
question. But you know he pushed it and
pushed it against Kansas and we got a vintage performance that
almost gave us the victory, you know, and so you didn't want him
to slow it down that day. But so I just, I have some
sympathy for him because I think he's he's he's in a
disadvantageous spot compared to his skill level and I think he's
trying his best to make it work. It's just not always working.
And so I think the staff made a bet that those guys could be a
backcourt that would be competitive in the Big 10.
It made sense to me in the offseason.
So I'm not going to kill him for it now.
But it hasn't worked out. And ultimately the buck stops
with them. You're going to make a bet like
that. It needs to work out.
You know, they bet that CJ Gunn, I think would be a little bit
more ready to play. And I think at times when CJ has
been allowed to play with three or four other starters on the
court, he's been better. At times when it's been CJ and
four bench guys or three bench guys, he struggled and those
line UPS have struggled. You know, that is again a
strategic philosophical choice that I disagree with.
So I think you know those three guys were so important heading
into the season and you have gotten in, in acts, you've
gotten the worst case scenario in CJ, you've gotten a, you know
based on his kind of where he was recruited in his development
curve. I wouldn't say this is
necessarily an unlikely scenario, but it's certainly not
on the optimistic side. And Trey, I mean, you know,
maybe we overrated what he could do.
He's been less than what you wanted.
And so you know, for for folks who listen to the Ex's and Jo's
podcast, which I will plug every day, very.
Very good show. You know, they talk about, you
know that they have talked about, you know you've got and
everybody knows this, you've got to get more production from your
guards. But the actual empirical
difference in production, like if you just look at, you know,
they like to look at the box plus, minus numbers, it is such
a massive gulf between what what good teams get.
And that is why even though Indiana has an excellent
frontcourt that's been very productive, we've struggled so
much to compete in some of these other games.
And so I think if you go into this offseason and X isn't
there, you've got, you know, you've got the story to tell
about Jalen Hood Shaffino, tons of nil money and minutes.
You should be able to get a good portal guard hopefully who can
come in and make an instant impact, which could have, you
know, which could really change how this thing looks now.
I still think there's all kinds of strategic and philosophical
things that, you know, may put a ceiling on how good that can be.
But I think if you're kind of looking at, you know, kind of
what Ave. is going to lead to the most improvement for this
program moving forward, I think fixing the roster issues is
probably the quickest path there.
And if Mike Woodson can be convinced to maybe pull his
basketball philosophies a little bit more into what is proven to
work more often in college basketball, and now I think
you've got a path to where things can really improve.
The issue right now is we're stuck watching A-Team where both
issues are bad or down and exacerbating each other, and
that makes it very difficult in the moment to see light through
the darkness, not to be overly dramatic.
No, not no. Of course it's like we're in a
Verizon commercial all of a sudden.
But no, it's it. Look, I I hear all of that.
I guess where I get concerned is you had there.
Yes, you made bets. So we've talked.
I've talked about this on on Crimson Cast before.
I think we've talked about it too, like you made bets on
certain players, but you didn't leave yourself any room for
something going wrong. And this has been pointed out by
many people who were more concerned about the guard
situation in the offseason. You just didn't get anybody.
Now, was that a choice or was that people talking to people
who were in the portal or in the recruiting spectrum and saying,
do you really want to go play for Indiana where the guards
underperform and and are put in on efficient situations and are
basically subordinate to the post players.
And we've seen nothing this year that's going to call Matt down.
In fact, if anything it's going to get worse.
So to fix what you're talking about, you don't have any guards
coming in. In the next recruiting class.
You're going to have to go do that in the portal.
What Portal guards of the caliber that would be needed to
have Indiana playing at the level that we think that they
should be playing at are going to say, I really want to go to
IU and play there. I think that's an open question.
Not saying it won't happen, but I think that ultimately you are
looking at a situation now where much much has happened with
Archie Miller. There's this perception that
there's much better places, more modern places, where you can
showcase your game as a guard other than Indiana, that you
could go to. So why go there when you can't
guarantee? And really, you don't have a
whole lot other than Jalen Huchafino, who as well as he
played, he didn't come out of there with great efficiency
statistics. He came out of there essentially
playing second fiddle to a post player.
And yes, he still got drafted. I mean that, but that's a lot of
evidence for the prosecution. If you're going to argue to
somebody that's on the recruiting trail and deciding
whether it's your school or Indiana in your regard, what is
it exactly about going there that you would be interested in
at this point? So I I would make one
distinction. I think it, I think it would be
very, very hard to sell a wing right now on coming to Indiana,
you know, you've got Mike Woodson's infamous comment from
last season. It's not my job to get Miller
cop shots. You know, we've seen guys like
that be an afterthought. I think this staff should have
all the ammunition they need to sell a legit lead guard on why
you would want to come here. You know, I, I, I, I, I think
maybe I look at the Jalen Hoocherfino example a little bit
differently than how you just described it.
I don't think those guys necessarily going to be like, oh
wow, his offensive rating was only 95.
They're going to see this guy was drafted, he was used, the
ball was in his hands and the offense was tailored to his
strengths. That's the story that you tell.
That combined with playing time in nil should put Indiana in a
good position to get a difference maker at that
position. Now you start talking about why
can't we get a guy like Dalton Connect?
Well, now I can list 1000 reasons why that guy may
question why should I come here. On the bright side, you've
already got Liam Mcneely committed who fills some of the
things. You know, theoretically, if he's
as good when he comes in as advertised and he's a freshman,
so you don't want to put too much on him, but you have a guy
there who should be able to do some of those things.
So now the question is, does Trey Galloway come back?
Are you going to pencil him in as you're starting two?
Would he be OK with the 6th man role and you can get another
guy, you know, there's some more question marks there.
I don't think it should be such a big question mark to get the
lead guard who's going to run your offense.
You know, if this staff can recruit like we've seen them
recruit, 'cause I think the story is still very compelling
for that guy, you know, for the next kind of shooter.
And yet, but yet there's no but yet there's nobody lined up
right now to come take that role, Jared.
I mean, that's what concerns me. Well, no.
I think they're banking on getting someone in the portal
who obviously isn't available yet.
You know, we won't know who that guy is going to be.
Like say that Wade Taylor from Texas A&M, right, who I think
has had some issues like say he decides to transfer.
That's the kind of guy Indiana should have a compelling
argument, and I'm not saying him specifically, but a guy like
that, who's proven it, who's older, who you can step in and
give him the ball and say you're going to run the offense, but I
guess he should be able to go after a guy like.
That I'm with you there. I just A, they've had those
types of people on campus and haven't been able to close the
deal. And B, the the fact that there's
no other recruits like you know the top 100 level recruits as
guards that would be in that role that are in the pipeline
right now for Indiana is a real concern from an atmospherics
perspective. Like I, I, yes, they were in
hard on boogie flan that didn't work.
If it was at it like that's a real problem from my perspective
because I just don't the portal can provide you things.
It obviously it got this team, Khalil Ware which is great.
And yes, you've had the trap door open up and Tamar Bates and
Mackenzie and Baco have both fallen through it after
decommitting from other schools before.
But the the lack of you know, even like a general sense of
direction and the oh, we're going to wait for someone who
doesn't actually exist yet because we think we might be
able to talk them into coming here when you're likely going to
be coming out of the season where you didn't make the NCAA
tournament, might not make the NIT tournament.
Are probably going to lose your best offensive player from a
numbers perspective to the NBA draft.
That's a daunting combination of things, Jared.
I mean, from my perspective at least.
It is. It is.
But my counter to that would be we had this staff hasn't had a
chance to go out and recruit an experienced lead guard without
Xavier Johnson. They're kind of taking up all
the minutes. Although they did, they did,
They did recruit Xavier Johnson for that role.
Well, they did. And that, that, that went wrong,
you know. And so I look, I think it's fair
to say, you know, look, you had this guy in your locker room.
You should be able to evaluate him as much as anybody.
And look, maybe he just hasn't come back from the injury like
they thought re injuring himself.
Like there's a lot of things that have happened with X.
And so, you know, I'm not pinning all that on the stack.
Sometimes stuff just goes wrong. Here's my maybe controversial
opinion. I think there's a chance that it
is actually better for this program given what they need
right now that Boogie Flan chose to go to Kentucky.
And I'll tell you why, given how bad this season has been and is
shaping up to be and how much they need to bounce back next
season. I think going into next season
giving the ball to a freshman guard adds a whole lot of risk
and volatility to a program that doesn't need it.
But if they did land boogie fland now you're not going to be
able to go out and be able to sell the minutes and the roll to
a more experienced guy. And what this team clearly needs
under Mike Woodson is a guy who can come in and man that role,
be experienced, hit the ground running from day one.
Now, everything that you said is fair.
They haven't been able to recruit a guy like this yet, but
they haven't really had the opportunity in the offseason
with experienced Portal guards with this role just there for
somebody. And so I I'm not saying it's a
guarantee that it'll happen, but it is to me, if you're looking
for, OK, what's the how do you craft an argument for how this
gets better and not just a little bit better, but a lot
better next season. That's where it has to start.
And I think they've got everything there to make it
happen. They're just going to have to go
close the deal. I don't know.
You may be right. But I guess my my counter to
that would be you could still go get an experienced Portal guard
and have Boogie flanned. That's what they did with Xavier
Johnson and Jalen Hoochieffino. They they they already had the
experienced guy they brought in, the freshman who wasn't supposed
to serve in the role that he eventually had to serve into
thanks to Xavier's injury. But they were.
They were able to pull both those in.
So now it almost feels like they have to get 2 experienced Portal
guards. Because I'm not, you know, at
this point, as much as I admire Gabe, Cups hustle, I, I'm, I'm
very, I'm becoming increasingly concerned about his inability to
contribute offensively. How, how much better does that
get through an entire offseason? Is he really able to grow into a
role where you can just count on him for 20 some minutes a game
next year? I don't.
I don't know if you can. That's.
Well, that's, yeah. You know, but, but this is
Galen. I think this is where, you know,
I know a lot of people, Oh well you know we're probably not
going to make the in state tournament.
So this season is over. I mean I think that's a
ludicrous statement. The season is getting very
nearly close to over for achieving any of the goals that
we had starting the season. No argument there, but I think
watching the development of players like him between now and
the end of the season is so important.
You know, I thought, I thought what we saw in the first half
from Gabe against Wisconsin, scoring 7 points in three
different ways, you know, on a nice little mid range on a catch
and shoot 3 on a drive to the basket.
That was good to see. You know, you don't need him
being a big time scorer, you just need him able to threaten
when the opportunities are there.
So can he develop into that guy now?
I don't think you want to go into next season with him as
your starter. But if he is penciled into the
role that Rob Fennessy had in Michael Woodson's first year,
where he's a defensive oriented guard who can come in and add a
little bit more efficiency, you know, scoring wise and just as a
distributor in your bench unit, that's a really nice piece to
have. But yes, you know what's going
to make the difference on next year's team is who do they go
out and land from a guard perspective?
And maybe the statement I made about Boogie Fland and is being
better off not getting him isn't correct.
Because you're right, they were able to recruit Jalen Hutchafina
when they had X. Maybe they would have been able
to go land another guy in the portal, but the number one thing
they've got to get is a guy who can hit the ground running next
year with the ball in his hands and make this offense make
sense. And Galen, we've seen it now for
three years. I hope there are some changes to
the way that we do things, but the system that we run right now
requires players who can go make individual plays.
Jalen Hood Shaffino could go make individual plays.
You've got to have a guy in that spot who is a difference maker.
That's true on any roster, but it's especially true on our
roster with our chosen style of play.
Well that's that's a a larger concern as well and I do worry
because I. That's my bigger concern.
Well, but I think it fits into the roster construction thing
too, though, because like what you're talking about requires a
very specific and particular type of person who doesn't need
coaching, is frankly around being a professional at the
collegiate level, so to speak. You know, and it feels like to
some degree, this is where someone like CJ Gunn or someone
like Caleb Banks has really struggled a bit because it
almost feels as if those guys are trying to grow into a role
that they don't know how to grow into.
They can't play the right way yet and they haven't really
improved a great deal in terms of their on court.
I mean they have the the occasional moment kind of like
Jordan Geronimo where like Geronimo he could on an on any
random night give you like a really great 14 minutes and that
was it. And he never really learned a
whole lot beyond that and that's still what he's doing at
Maryland to some degree. But you know the fact that we,
we appear to have this focus as a program around, OK, we need
guys who can go do things by themselves in this framework of
an offense and and honestly also defensively.
But you don't have those people. You haven't been able to develop
those people and you're not at the top of the charts in terms
of attractive destinations for people that are going to be in
the portal who can do those things.
There's going to be plenty of people in the Portal, but a lot
of them are going to be people who didn't play a whole lot at
their previous institutions like Anthony Walker or played at a
lower level like Peyton Sparks. That's not a plug and play kind
of situation and and I think as as this season has gone along, I
guess that's where a lot of my concerns have started to
manifest as we get into the longer term things.
It's this idea that OK, last year's team in spite of some
roadblocks and some some speed bumps worked eventually.
It wasn't always the most aesthetically pleasing to watch.
They had a lot of games they had to grind out, but they were able
to grind them out. But that was largely because of
the NBA caliber talent, the experience that they had.
This vintage doesn't really have the experience.
And you know, while it has the NBA talent, it's kind of arrayed
differently. Next year's rosters probably.
I mean, maybe it will be at the same level.
It's hard to see it being like significantly better.
You might, you could, you're going to have Liam Mcneely come
in, but you're going to lose Khalil Ware.
So that kind of that that balances itself out.
I'm just really fascinated to see, like, who are the people
that you're going to get, who you'll be able to actually plug
in and make this run significantly better, which goes
back to something that you've been talking about, which is
there have to be some changes to the approach.
Is that really on, like, is that on the cards?
Is that something where is there enough of a realization that
what's happening is not working, that there would be an
alteration? That is very rare in coaching in
general, not just with Mike Woodson, but with any coach that
they would after a few years and after a lifetime spent doing
this, they'd just suddenly be like, you know what?
The stuff I'm doing just really isn't happening.
I'm going to change it up because I have to that really
like, I'd be very surprised if that's the direction that things
went. I would too.
I think that's unfair to expect. You know, Woody has the
philosophies that he has. A lot of them were built and
developed in the NBA and he still, in a lot of ways coaches
college basketball games like they are NBA games now.
He adjusts as the season goes on.
You know, he shortens his rotation.
He stops doing the line changes, which to me actually makes doing
the line changes earlier in the season make less sense.
But whatever, you know, but he's, you know, this philosophy
is what it is. And so I don't think you're
going to make massive changes there.
But what you can make, I think are tweaks.
I mean, Galen, we are leaving so much offensive efficiency on the
court with our shot selection. It's outrageous.
It really is like it and I think it's probably frustrating.
Give them the numbers, Jared. Give them the numbers, please.
I mean, OK, so this was before the Wisconsin game.
We were in the 98th percentile in the amount of long twos that
we took. OK, these are not like your
little short mid range ones. These are 17 feet to the
three-point line. The long ones, we were in the
98th percentile and we were one of the worst teams in the
country in efficiency. So we were taking them more than
anybody and less efficient than almost anybody.
I think we were averaging like .55 points per possession on the
shots, on those shots. Then we went into the Wisconsin
game and in the first half took six of them and made one.
And I was just ready to throw things in my house.
You know that to me. And you know, again, you know,
Mike Woodson played in a different era.
He was a guy who lived in the mid range, you know, even when
he was coaching, you know, coaching guys like Joe Johnson
and Carmelo Anthony, These are players who were very effective
in that range. And when you have a player who
can make them, that's one thing. You know, you may recall, you
know last year, early in the season we are very frustrated
about this, but as the season went on, it's like, well, you
know you've got a freshman in Jalen that had to take the ball
from Xavier Johnson. It makes sense to tailor your
offense around where he's comfortable.
Those are the shots he's comfortable with.
Fine, if a guy can actually make them, then you give him a little
bit of a longer leash, right? Mackenzie Mbako I think is
averaging .8 points per possession on those long twos.
It's still not that efficient, you know, there's he'd be more
efficient if he would drive or take a step back, theoretically,
but he can at least make them at a decent clip.
But when CJ Gunn is scoring like .4 points per possession on them
and Gabe Cups, is that like .3 points per possession on them?
Maybe those shots don't need to be there.
They're essentially turnovers. You know, basically every two
long twos Indiana takes is a turnover because they're not
getting offensive rebounds and they're missing so many of them.
So that is not something that I think has to be part of this
philosophy of Mike Woodson's offense.
Like, I think, look, he likes to have shooters who space the
floor and are relatively stationary.
I'd love to see more movement from those guys.
You know, like in the Wisconsin game, you know, you saw Max
Klezmet do a great job of relocating and finding openings.
Our guys don't do that as much. Could we start to do that?
Maybe. You know, I don't think, I don't
even think it's fair to ask a guy to come coach your program
and say you need to change everything you do.
If that's what you're going to do, then just fire the guy,
right? And I certainly don't think
we're at that point. But I do think it's fair to ask
a coach to say, OK, you've got this overall philosophical
construct of how you want to play offense and how you want to
play defense. But can you tweak that in
meaningful ways each season to maximize the players that you
have? That is my biggest frustration
this year. I think we have seen, you know,
Indiana teams in past seasons where it look like the players
were a little checked out. It didn't really look like you
had the effort in the fight most nights out.
I don't get that feeling. I get the feeling that the guys
are really trying to do what they're being asked to do.
And in a lot of games what they're being asked to do is
just not really giving them a fighting chance and against some
opponents almost runs counter to what may be kind of like an
objective strategy would be for how you want to play this team.
So that's where I get frustrated.
But I think that, you know, within that is again a ray of
hope where it's like, you know, hey, if you get talented players
in the system, they're going to have freedom to express their
talent and make big plays. And you saw that with Trace, you
saw it with Jalen at times. It could be very good if we
could just make some tweaks. That make it make more sense for
the particular set of guys on the roster.
You know, if we can recognize, hey, these bench line UPS aren't
working, but when you have two bench players paired with three
starters, it actually works pretty well.
Let's stop doing this sooner. All of these things could add up
to meaningful improvements. The problem is we haven't seen
any of them and that's part of or many of them and that's part
of what's led to this season bottoming out.
This is this. Is part of what I meant when I
said earlier it doesn't feel like there's a plan because it
feels like a lot of the poor decisions that get made
offensively and defensively don't happen because of, well,
this is how Indiana was destined to play this possession or this
stretch of possessions. It's just like guys do good
things on some possessions and then they do bad things on other
possessions. There's very little continuity
in in how Indiana is executing what they're doing.
And I guess, you know, my my worry with a lot of this is, you
know, perhaps this is how it's been all along and it just
didn't look as bad last year because you had one of the most
efficient scorers in college basketball covering up a bunch
of sins. I I think this is actually where
it kind of shines to you more on the defensive end.
And you know, it's interesting because we spend so much time
talking about offense, and rightfully so, but the defensive
effort, the defensive intensity, the defensive approach is not
really good for a full 40 minutes.
And I don't know that it has been good for a full 40 minutes
this season. And if that isn't there, then I
that's where I start to worry about what are the broader
cultural issues within the program?
Because I look, I can deal with you being bad offensively.
And we've seen teams that aren't great offensively make the NCAA
tournament because they just are able to grind teams down.
This team really doesn't provide a huge amount of resistance
defensively. It feels like, particularly
against teams that have either a really good system like Purdue
does, or really talented individual players who like
Auburn who are able to take advantage of individual
mismatches. And that's the thing I didn't
think we would have a problem with under Mike Woodson.
Like I thought that would get nailed down very quickly and
it's almost gone the opposite and people will blame the
scheme, but even with the scheme, it just feels like
there's not the urgency on defense.
I mean when you've got Greg Guard of all people saying, God,
Bob Knight would have been disappointed in both teams.
Like first of all, I don't, Greg, I don't need to hear from
you under any circumstances. But if I am of all the things to
say, that is essentially say yeah, you know either team
played hard defensively and and if you've got the opposing coach
saying that about your team, like that's a real problem.
Yeah, you know you are right. I think the defense is the
bigger issue. I think it is easier to
identify. I think it's easier for most
fans. And I I put myself here.
I'm not like Coach Tonsoni. I'm not like Tony Adranya.
I can't watch or play once and tell you what was run.
I got to watch it, you know many times.
And so, you know, for me, I, I get caught up in a lot of things
that regular fans get caught up in, which is like, that was a
bad shot, 'cause I can recognize that, right?
And so I think it's easier to identify when an offensive
possession doesn't quite look right.
And maybe what, you know, some of the issues are defensively,
it's different, you know, because it's so interconnected.
And you really have to understand what's the scattering
report on a particular guy to know if this guy was doing the
right thing, leaving to help all of those things, you know?
So when Mike Woodson came, he talked a lot about defense, and
we saw a very good defense that first season.
You know, Xavier Johnson was still at his peak athletically
and was, I mean, just hounding people.
I mean, do you remember when Xavier Johnson first got here?
He was a breath of fresh air, how he defended, how hard he
played, you know, all those things and he really helped make
that defense work. But then behind him you had guys
who are athletically challenged like Parker Stewart and Miller
Kopp, but who had been around the game for a while.
Parker Stewart's dad as a coach, Miller Kopp, is a very smart
basketball player. They picked it up and and they
really improved offensively as the season went on.
And you had guys like Race Thompson and Trace Jackson
Davis, who had been coached under Archie Miller, who is a
good teacher of defensive principles.
And so you had those guys who I think understood defense.
There are some similarities between the Pack line and what
Indiana is running now. And so I think that worked that
season. Last year you saw a little bit
of slippage. The team was younger.
Xavier Johnson wasn't there. Defensively, I think it made
sense why the defense wasn't quite as good this year.
Now you have a whole lot of new guys running a complex system
where you really have to make a series of split second decisions
on OK, do I help? When do I get back?
You know, all these things that more experienced players can
make quicker and there really needs to be some cohesion.
And so you've got a lack of cohesion, a lack of experience.
And to me, what I think sometimes looks like kind of a
lack of effort or or even a lack of toughness, a lot of times
it's just indecision and a slight lack of conviction and
what you're doing because when you're constantly getting 3
pointers drained in your face, that's very demoralizing.
And so I think that's all of that has kind of mixed together
in this defensive Stew that is just really not good.
And to me, you know, outside of going zone at the end of the
Louisville game, which really kind of ended up winning that
game. And if you really spirited
defensive efforts at home where I think the home crowd helps
push you through when you might get frustrated or indecisive or
all the things that can bother you defensively.
You don't see that stuff on the road and the whole thing just
collapses. In addition to strategic choices
like hey let's double Stephen Crowell but leave Max Klezman
open three straight possessions. Well now you know it's all just
kind of going wrong And that to me defensively everything that
could go wrong is. So if you get you know if you.
But but here also is a problem Galen is if you're if this is
going to be a let's you know, just kind of recruit talent and
replacing the portal and we're kind of constantly churning
through new guys, you're never really going to get the cohesion
with this defense that you need. Length can help, athleticism can
help. But the path to building an
elite defense is not the one that Indiana is following, and
that's kind of my long term concern.
Well, what I think is interesting is when you look at,
we try to break down why the defense isn't playing that well
this year. It's not what you would think.
They're not giving up a higher three-point percentage the the
three-point percentage. Indiana's surrendering is
basically the exact same as it's been for the last six seasons.
Yeah, it's not the percentage, it's the problem.
Well, right. It's the rate, but but then
there has to be an adaptation, which we haven't seen on that.
You know the what what I find most fascinating is actually
what is worse this year is that Indiana's giving up more twos
and they're a higher percentage of twos, even though they're not
getting shot as much. And they're also they're
significantly down from what they have been in terms of
getting blocks. There's there's a clear lack of
physicality and a clear lack of utilization of size in the post
for Indiana playing defense, despite this being one of the
tallest teams in all of college basketball at every single
position, that that's what worries me.
So you I think you may be right in as much as perhaps there is a
lack of conviction because you know you get burned so many
times doing XY and Z. But like the things that are
burning Indiana visually the three pointers isn't really
what's contributing to the the vast majority of issues.
It's the day-to-day stuff. It's also the lack of
rebounding, You know and and and you know they keep teams off the
offensive glass and it's just like that shouldn't be that way
with this personnel set if you're going to play this way,
if this can't be the outcome. Well, and you know, and here's
where a lot of things are interconnected, right?
So, you know, #1, not having Trace Jackson Davis, who is a
very versatile interior defender really hurts.
You know, Khalil Ware I think is a good weak side shot blocker,
right? But if you're expecting him to
try and guard a Zac Edie or or guard a physical center, he's
really going to struggle doing that.
And so that's part of the reason why the two point percentage
Indiana's giving up is a little bit better.
Trace, you know who really struggled as a defender early in
his career, became so much better by his last season,
right? And so you don't quite have that
with Khalil. And it's probably not fair to
expect it from him. He's a sophomore, right, who has
made a lot of improvement. So I don't mean it as a knock on
him, you know. But you also have Malik Renew,
who is so important, essential to what Indiana's doing
offensively and carry such a load on the offensive end that
creates 2 things on the other end.
One, he defends afraid to foul. He has to.
He cannot get in foul trouble because the team doesn't have
answers without him. And I think he's carrying such a
heavy load offensively, You know, especially if he's playing
40 minutes against Wisconsin, you can't go, especially a big
guy like him, he can't go all out at all times.
And I think you're seeing slippage from him a little bit
defensively and on the defensive glass because of that.
Where that's interconnected is if you had guards who could take
more pressure off of him offensively now, maybe you could
get a little bit more balanced effort and focus from him on
both ends. And again, I don't say this as a
knock on Malik. I think as a sophomore he's
doing everything you could ask of him.
But he's not Superman, He's not senior year, Trace.
Trace could do it on both ends. That's why what he did as a
senior was so spectacular. But if you have to have that to
make the system work well, those players staying for four years
with that level of talent do not come around that often.
So the you know that's. I'm struck suddenly by, OK, this
is the second player who plays major minutes that we're saying
is obligated to do way too much. This is Trey Galloway and Malik
Renew. This is where a lot of my
concerns are starting to come in.
Like if you're This is a five man game.
So much rests on the shoulders of a small number of people.
Otherwise everything goes off the rails.
But. It did last year too, but Jalen
had a bad game. He had no chance.
And and look, you know, and look, last year's team and
coaching staff deserves credit for figuring out a way to pull
it together. Yeah, but there's a there's an
alternate reality where that doesn't happen.
And you know that we're seeing the alternate reality here.
We saw it in Woodson's first year, which now it's like, well,
what's the what's the reality and what's the fake reality?
I don't entirely know which kind of gets.
When Xavier Johnson became an all Big 10 level point guard at
the end of the year, they went on a run.
Well bright but they but you look at what they sustained
leading up to that is the is the larger issue.
I mean when they lose, they lost five out of seven heading into
that Big 10 tournament. And you know it wasn't like
those were all to great teams. And so that's this is where I
get my, my concern level rises and I guess this ties into how
perhaps we could finish up, which is what happens the rest
of the way with this Indiana team.
I mean, you know right now they sit at 12:00 and 7:00 and they
have 12 games remaining in the conference.
They have games at Illinois, at Ohio State, at Purdue, at Penn
State, at Maryland, at Minnesota, and then they get
home games against Iowa, Penn State, Northwestern, Nebraska,
Wisconsin and Michigan State. Their four and four record thus
far has been against one of the easier schedules in the
conference and I think they have like the 4th hardest schedule
remaining. And this is not a team that's
exactly exactly what has been forged in the fires of the the
the schedule so far. They look very tentative.
How do you see this playing out? I mean you know Indiana's got
four. They need to get four wins to
get to a a guaranteed 500 record minimum in the regular season
plus conference tournament. Can they get the four wins?
Will they will not? Not Can I know they can.
Will they get the four wins? Wait, they would need 6 right to
finish 500? No, they're 12 and seven right
now. Oh, oh, to finish, overall OK.
If they lose in the first round of the Big 10 tournament, they'd
be 16 and 16. Yes.
I don't know, Galen. My inclination after the last
four games of basketball that we've seen at, you know, against
Rutgers, Purdue, Wisconsin specifically, is to think the
pessimistic end. But, you know, I think, and this
is where I try to go back to what we talked about at the
beginning of the season, which was this team is going to be
better in February and March than they are now, than they are
at the beginning. OK, well, what has changed to
make you feel like that's not the case?
And the big thing is Xavier Johnson, right?
No one expected this. You know, a guy who had an
assist rate of above 35 for five years, suddenly plummeting to
like 15. That's difficult to expect,
right? So if as he gets a little bit
more healthier and rebuilds confidence, if he can be more
productive and maybe not even be the guy that he was, but be able
to give you 20 to 22 minutes a game with an assist rate in the
20 fives and just be a little bit more solid.
I think there's a path to win some of those games, especially
the home games, maybe even some tough ones like beating a
Michigan State at home or you know, who else do they play at
home that you know, or beating a Wisconsin at home?
That doesn't seem out of the question.
The problem with this team is it's just really hard to expect
consistency, let alone from game to game.
But from, you know, minute to minute, I mean, the way this
team has started 1st and 2nd halves has been outstanding.
I mean the thing about this roster that would probably shock
people is if you look at evanmia.com and you look at the
top ten five man lineups, the top 10 most efficient 5 man
lineups in the country, Do you realize the Gabe Cup starting
lineup is fifth in the country in efficiency margin, adjusted
efficiency, margin cups, Galloway and Baco, Renew and
wear. I mean, those five are playing
at an elite level to start halves, but it just dwindles
from there. It's almost like, you know, as
the residue from whatever coaching they're getting before
the game and at halftime whittles away, they just lose
their ability to play coherent basketball and obviously the
bench struggles factor in there and there's lots of, you know,
reasons there. So I'm filibustering and not
answering the question, but the real answer is I I just, I don't
know. Honestly, I don't have a great
feel for this team right now and maybe that's because if I
actually were to admit how I feel would be a little bit more
negative than I want to say. But I do think there is a there
is a world because of the talent.
I mean, Malik Renew is just a supremely gifted offensive
player. Mackenzie and Bako may end up
being Big 10 Freshman of the Year.
And he's a guy who, if Indiana starts giving him a higher
volume of shots, could start scoring 20 points a game.
Like there's a path there to win because they're going to be some
nights when those are two of the three best players on the court,
you know? But there's just so many other
issues with this, with this team that those two guys could have a
great game and it can still not be enough.
Last year that wasn't the case. If Trace and Jalen played great,
Indiana would win because Cop was solid.
You know, other guys were solid. And the fact that you can't even
really count on that now, you know, is it just it makes me
wonder. And so, you know, I would, if I
had to offer a prediction, you know, I'd say Indiana probably
lose, loses one or two more games and they win from here on
out. But I don't, I think it would be
fair if you wanted to take an optimistic look and say, hey, we
expected this team to get better.
I think they can when they start playing teams that aren't quite
as good as Purdue and at Wisconsin, I mean, those are
particularly tough matchups. You know, there's a path.
I just I struggle to trust that this group can get on that path
based on what we've seen so far. Yeah, it's, it's interesting.
It's just this feels like Groundhog Day for IU basketball.
I mean if you go back to the last year of cream, we're
recording this on the 23rd of January.
If you take the record for Indiana and the regular season
from the 22nd of January on through all those years, it goes
as follows, 3 and 8, four and six, five and eight, five and
eight, three and eight, four and eight.
Last year was nine and four, you know, and and that's where it
kind of felt like things had turned around a little bit and
then they didn't. And I I think it's it's
supremely frustrating across the board that there's been such a
regression in the basic concepts of how Indiana's playing this
year. Yes, there was some of that that
was expected. It's not unrecoverable, but it
is frustrating because it just kind of feels like after a
moment and it's actually goes ties back into something that I
was talking with Zach Osterman about.
After a moment where it felt like Indiana fans and the
program had gotten out of the dark and the trajectory was
moving in a better direction, it's suddenly gone the other
direction. And that's really hard to get
your head wrapped around. And I, you know, I think if
people are reacting negatively to some of the the angst that's
being expressed by IU fans, I think there's this kind of
dreaded pit of the stomach feeling regarding the direction
of the program where it's like I don't think anybody's got it in
their heads that hey, sitting here and contemplating another
January, February combination that goes like this is, is is
going to be enjoyable. No, you know, and look, I I get
the the bewilderment some have expressed with the fanbase's
reaction and how it can seem. Certainly look, the more extreme
reactions that you see out there and anybody calling for Woodson
to be fired like that stuff is all ridiculous.
And I think for the most part, social media noise, you know,
Facebook and Twitter and all these sites kind of incentivize
for the most extreme reactions and you get that there.
I think once you get out of those bubbles, it's not quite as
extreme, but it's still palpable because of just and you know,
and you've talked about this a lot, which is just this
misalignment of what is promised to IU fans and what they kind of
see as being reasonable based on resources and everything
available. And then what actually happens.
And it's always like, God, it feels like this is less than it
could be, you know. And so and I think you're just,
you're seeing some of that stuff bubble up this season where it's
like, man, because I think you know my philosophy on this Galen
is I'm always going to be super patient with a coach's first two
years. Did it with Archie, you did it
with Crane. Did it with Woodson.
I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt on red flags, all that
stuff, you know, year three, it seems to me that if the same
issues are happening, it's time to start being kind of concerned
that this is a feature, not a bug, of what the coach is doing.
And I think there may be other people like that to where now
you see some of these issues and it's like, man, you know, is
this, is this going to be another one of those false
starts where it feels like we have hope and then it doesn't
happen? And is that fair to Mike
Woodson? No, maybe not.
It's but it's the job he took. And yeah.
Well, and that's the thing. It feels it it feels when you
complain about these things and look there, there's the, there's
the micro level of look, the team is young, they're still
learning. I get all of that.
The complaints about why is this trending in this direction are
not truly fair. But this is where the the way
that we view these things tends to get off track compared to the
reality. These things are often times
categorized within the confines of who's the players at that
moment, who, who's the coach at that moment.
And it sounds entitled for IU fans to say we can't be having
this happening. But on the flip side, it's it's
kind of like that debate on Twitter yesterday about Iowa
fans. Like there were, there were some
media members who were like how could you possibly think that
getting rid of? Of, you know, Fran McCaffrey
would be a good idea. He's the all time winningest
coach in Iowa history. Then you look at Iowa's history
and it's like, well, they've they haven't been past the Sweet
16 since Fran got there and it's been 15 years.
And there is this mentality I think sometimes from the outside
where it's like I don't understand why these people are
so upset. I don't understand why they were
overreacting. But it is an accrual of things
over the course of time and it is unfortunate that Mike Woodson
and his staff and the players I think find themselves in the
crosshairs of this. But I also like I look around
the the country and I say it, it's not this hard to put
together a core program that's going to win games and be
competitive and look competitive.
And and you know, the point I made at the end of the
conversation with Zach was it's not like this team is like kind
of on the boundaries of the tournament.
It's that they're significantly outside it.
Like they've played about as 100th best team in the country
and that's that I don't think is unfair to point out.
Right. And so I have two quick things
on that. One, you know last year and you
know Ryan and I had this debate on the assembly call, you know,
we're by season's end, he said Indiana underachieved.
And my argument was, come on, you know, we hadn't made the
tournament in six years. This is the second year in a row
we got a four seed. You know, you dealt with the
injury of Xavier Johnson. Like, is it conceivable they
could have done better? Yes.
But to me, was it fair to expect them to do better?
Like that was a good season, right?
And so I think people who didn't find success in last year, that
to me is a little bit unreasonable, right?
But when you look at this year, like all of the potential issues
were kind of baked into being ranked 50th in Kenpalm at the
beginning of the season. Now Indiana's down at 100.
Here's a question for you. Remember the Kentucky season?
Was it two or three years ago when they just bottomed out and
they went 9 and 16? Do you know what?
They were ranked in Kim Palm 47th.
Because all of their losses were close.
They just kept losing these close games, right?
And part of the problem for Indiana this season is the wins
haven't looked good and have been closer than they should,
and the losses have been total blowouts.
And so it just makes you feel like you're not even almost on
the same plane as some of these other teams.
And I think what Indiana fans want is to get up on that plane,
stay on that plane, and maybe you move back and forth and it's
like, OK, we're 50th this year, we're on the bubble or maybe we
make the NIT, whatever, You're going to have a season like
that, but not be like in the basement of the conference, you.
Know. And be just trying to keep your
head above triple digits in in metrics.
I I agree. I like it's like like North
Carolina last year who you know, kind of had the season from hell
and people are questioning, you know, Hubert Davis's job, they
were like 49th or 43rd in in Ken Pop.
Look, the analytics aren't everything, but what they are,
as we talk about all the time on this network, they are an
indicator of the relative strength of how you're playing
against other teams in the country.
And it's it's by far the best, way more than record, more than
ranking in polls to be able to meter that out.
And then that's the thing. It's like you're going to get a
bottoming out occasionally. But for for for people who watch
this program for a while, to look at this team and say, you
know what? As it currently sits, according
to the metrics, this team will be worse than the 2011 team that
went 12 and 20 and 3 and 15 in the conference and will be worse
than any of the teams that came since then.
That's a really hard pill to swallow.
And that's where you could say this was going to be a
rebuilding year. This was going to be a year
where things didn't go great. It was going to be a rougher
year. That's not what we were talking
about. Like that's that's a different
level. And and so that's where I'm
really fascinated I guess to kind of to to to put a dot on
this at the end. That's where I'm really
fascinated to see what happens over this next 12 games, because
ultimately if there has been cultural progress made with IU
basketball, this is where it has to shine.
This is where, OK, maybe you're not going to make the NCAA
tournament, but but going four and eight over these last 12, I
think that's a real red flag going into the off season, If
you go six and six, you're not expected to go six and six,
you're going to go, you know you're going to 500 in
conference, you're going to go to the NIT.
Is that a good season? Is that an acceptable season?
No. But given the hand that's
currently been dealt and given the way that the season's going
to me, I think if you're an IU fan, you can at least go into
the offseason and say, well, they figured some things out
down the stretch. And I have a bit more faith that
the trajectory of this program is going to be one that will
take us where we need to go in the future.
You go four and eight down the stretch.
I'm not sure that you can reliably say that internally,
and I think that's where the questions get louder.
Yeah, and even, you know, even going deeper than the record,
even if Indiana goes 4:00 and 8:00, but those eight losses are
competitive. You know, you're competitive at
Illinois, you're competitive at Purdue, and you're playing
better. That's what I think is important
to watch for. You know, what is the
foundation? I think you learn a lot about
the foundation of your program in the worst seasons.
You know, what is the actual floor here?
How far can we go? Well, we've dropped further than
anyone would have expected and people can say whatever they
want. There were a lot of people who
were pessimistic early in the season.
No one thought Indiana was going to be playing this poorly,
right? And so can this group rebound
together? Can the staff make some
adjustments, which, to be fair, they have done in the last
couple of January's and February's little tweaks to help
get more out of the personnel. And so I'm curious to see what
Mike Woodson does because I think at times he has shown a
real handle on his personnel in terms of, you know, just being
able to get them motivated for for particular games, being able
to make little shifts and unlock something.
You know, do we see some of that stuff here down the stretch that
helps lead to improved play? I'm with you, Galen.
I think these these next you know the next couple months are
really really important for setting the stage for what comes
because part of that pitch in the offseason to you know Portal
guard Capital P, Capital G that everybody has penciled into the
you know to the roster next year.
We just don't know who it is is hey look you're going to come
play with Malik Renew who became an all big 10 player.
You know we went 500 down the stretch.
We've got you know these other guys coming back.
You know Caleb Banks really you know came on here at the end of
the season and we think he's a building block now like these
kinds of things can be really important and so no Indiana May
is not going to make the NCA tournament.
I mean, you know, a barring I I was using the Bart Torvik team
cast. If we win out, we would be a six
seed, according to. The yeah no it's I I think we
can just I I've I was doing that for a while I've I've just just
like you know what let's let's just let's just have a glass of
warm milk instead of doing that. It'll be healthier.
I'm with but. Anyway, but I I agree with you,
it is huge last stretch of the season.
That's the question. And and look, ultimately you
season can go the way people hoped.
Now it's a table setter for what the next year is.
We've had plenty of table center years that we're supposed to add
up to something in the future. And I think that the people that
are skeptical about this adding up to something better in the
future have a lot of reasons why they should feel that way.
And I hope that there can be some hard truths and
realizations as we move forward because right now this is just
not it. And you know, even by the
standards of and again, the last thing I'll say, you get this
kind of flexibility or this kind of leeway if you are at a
program that is at this level culturally but has had some
sustained success and falls on hard times for a couple of
years. That's not what Indiana's been.
And to to Zach's point, from our podcast, it gets harder for
every successive coach and every successive group of players
because you're now living with not just the present and the
disappointment of the present, but the expectations of the
past. And but I also think that
realistically, we've seen enough examples of programs figuring it
out that there's no reason why Indiana can't figure it out.
It's just that they haven't figured it out, at least not
consistently. And whether last year is the
harbinger of better times to come or an isolated incident out
of a much longer stretch of mediocrity and disappointment
from a program perspective, that's ultimately the big
question mark. So we'll see.
See what happens anyway. Well, on that happy note, we'll
we'll wrap up the crossover episode.
Jared is always a pleasure. You guys have Assembly call
radio coming up Thursday, correct?
Thursday night. Yep.
I'm not sure exactly what we'll talk about yet.
May have a guest for that one but it'll you know Simly car
radio was ours. Our chance to take a step back
post game shows tend to be very emotional and in the moment
Simly car radio, you can step back and kind of look at things,
you know, with a you know just kind of a broader view.
So we'll do that and then be ready on Saturday for whatever
happens at Illinois which is a huge opportunity for Indiana to
start to change the narrative or another chance to just continue
it on. And you know, for all the
frustration, I mean I will be there cheering and hoping and
supporting the program as much as we can because all we want
is, you know for this team to figure it out and get it.
And I think these players are playing hard enough that they
they warrant continued you know, support.
And I would just like to see them put in a little bit better
position to maximize their talents.
And if that happens, who knows, maybe you can go up there and
compete in champagne and make it a pleasant Saturday afternoon.
To paraphrase Mick Mick Jagger, love is just a kiss away.
And in this case a kiss is a road victory in Illinois, which
I'll note Maryland did couple weeks ago.
So it's it's not out of the realm of possibility, but we'll
see what happens Anyway. Be sure to check out Assembly
Call Radio. Be sure to check out Assembly
Call Post Game after that Illinois game and the entire
constellation of the podcast that we have here on the back
home network. As always, we are pleased to
have everybody along for the ride.
So for Jared and the Assembly Call crowd, I'm Galen Clavio
from Crimson Cast. I'll be back with Scott later on
this week. We'll talk about something I'm
sure should be fascinating of itself.
So anyway, thanks for listening, folks.
We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the
Bison. So everybody.