1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,680 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:21,880 Field Apparel. All right, folks, welcome back 3 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,920 to Crimson Cast. Scott here with you. 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,400 And we're starting our basketball previews. 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,640 And Oh my gosh, does it feel good to be talking about 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,720 basketball and not football? So we're going to keep it to 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,080 basketball. Although at the very end of this 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,960 pod, Alex and I do go into a bit of a football talk. 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,560 I I I can't help myself. I'm just, I'm just masochist. 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,040 I just keep going, going at the pain. 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,560 But I'm super excited about today's podcast. 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,640 We have Alex Bozich from the founder of Inside the Hall, the 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,440 original OG in my mind of the Indiana basketball kind of media 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,400 sphere that has built up over the last 20 years or so. 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,640 So great discussion with Alex, but before we get there, want to 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,400 give a shout out to the entire home network. 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:01,880 Definitely check out Assembly Call. 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,519 Doing the work, just tons of great podcast firing up now on 19 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,080 the home network. After every game Assembly Call 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:09,960 will be there doing their their recap. 21 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,640 That's must listen for me especially. 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,280 I'm driving home. I love just picking it up on 23 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,000 YouTube, get it on my phone and just listen on the drive home. 24 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,160 It's a great way to recap the game and the entire home network 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,360 is brought to you by your friends over at Home Field 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,480 Apparel, Just Home and Home Everywhere Home Field, Home 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,280 Network Home Field Apparel has the new Heartland collection of 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,200 jackets. Just awesome stuff growing up. 29 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:35,680 I I mean, I grew up in Bloomington. 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,000 I I wanted to go to IU, but I also kind of wanted to spread my 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,200 wings to his friends were going different colleges. 32 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,720 So I I applied to Wisconsin. I applied to a lot of Big 10 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:44,480 schools. Honestly. 34 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,760 Wisconsin was where I kind of really wanted to go and I got I 35 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,400 got wait listed. I ended up getting in. 36 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,840 But at that point I agreed to go to IU or I signed my letter of 37 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,440 intent for IU, so to speak. But you know as a student not as 38 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,200 an athlete or anything. All of this said home field 39 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,080 apparel has a killer Wisconsin jacket. 40 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,960 It's got kind of the logo I remember in the 80s the West 41 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,120 with The Walking Badger. It says Badgers on the back part 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,080 of their Heartland collection. You got Minnesota, Michigan, 43 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,920 Northwestern, as we would say OG Big 10 schools for you New kids 44 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:19,360 with West Coast, Big 10 home field apparel has the Heartland 45 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,600 collection. Great bomber jackets, you know, 46 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:24,360 tough to wear if you're an Indiana fan, but you can 47 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,160 definitely pick up one of them. You know, I I think you can get 48 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,360 away with a Wisconsin one. There's not a lot of bad blood 49 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,600 between Wisconsin and Indiana, so check them out and if you're 50 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,000 getting your first order on home field, use the promo code HOME 51 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,200 23 for 15% off your first purchase. 52 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,680 Check them out Home field apparel.com. 53 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,720 And one final programming note before we get to Alex from 54 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,200 inside the hall. We will not be talking about the 55 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,360 Mackenzie and Bako arrest on this podcast. 56 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,480 I probably won't bring it up on any of the other preview podcast 57 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,520 that I do. I'm aware of it. 58 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Know what happened. But I just think that it's 59 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,720 something that you know, it's still still out there to be 60 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,040 played out. We don't know what all happened. 61 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,440 We don't know what the ramifications are going to be. 62 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,480 And so I think until it plays out, it doesn't make a lot of 63 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,920 sense at least on this podcast to be bringing it up and talking 64 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:13,200 about it. But just wanted to mention that 65 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,080 obviously we're aware about it and but we're not going to dig 66 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,160 into it because it's just not really the platform. 67 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,960 I want to be talking about it and also want to be previewing 68 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,520 the season. And I'm, I'm aware that, you 69 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,600 know, if there's a suspension that's going to affect certain 70 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,760 games and we'll discuss that as the time comes. 71 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,920 But it's still something that's in flux, still don't have all 72 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,600 the details. And so at this point it's not 73 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,960 something that we're going to bring up or talk about in the 74 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,560 preview podcast, at least the ones that I'm doing until we 75 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,480 know more and just kind of know how it's going to affect things 76 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,000 on the court. I think that's at least for me 77 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,280 the, you know, the, the most important thing in the end this 78 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,400 podcast is about basketball. You know, college kids are kids 79 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,840 and people make mistakes. Not condoning it. 80 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,080 Again, I don't really know what happened outside of what we've 81 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,720 all read about. But I think at this point it's 82 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,400 best just to focus on how it's going to affect the team. 83 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,080 And right now we don't really have those answers. 84 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,560 There's no point in digging into it. 85 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,240 So just wanted to bring that up up front that it's not going to 86 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,320 be mentioned and it's not because this was recorded, you 87 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,760 know, two months ago or it's not something that we don't know 88 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,320 about. It's just something that really 89 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:23,840 isn't, you know, the the purvey of this kind of podcast, So just 90 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:26,600 pointing that out there up front and won't do it again. 91 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,240 But as you hear the other previews that I have scheduled 92 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,120 and lined up for the next couple of weeks, not going to dig into 93 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,760 it unless we get an announcement that says, you know, that 94 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,080 there's suspensions and what games, in which case then we can 95 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,800 discuss how that'll be affected. But at this point, I mean 96 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,080 there's so many questions, don't even know what guys on the court 97 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,000 are going to look like. So not even sure what we're 98 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,560 gaining and or losing. So anyway, just bringing that up 99 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,880 upfront, mentioning that and then we will let that go for 100 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,480 now. And now very excited to have 101 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,520 Alex on the podcast, a great discussion as we look at kind of 102 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,840 the Woodson era as a whole and what we can look forward to and 103 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:08,040 what we're both looking forward to for this upcoming season. 104 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,560 So with no further ado, Alex from inside the hall. 105 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,240 All right, Excited to have him back on one of the O GS. 106 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,040 Like we get kind of the OG podcast, but this is literally 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,440 the OG of Indiana basketball. Social social media, social. 108 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:29,600 The Alex Bozich inside the hall, dude, glad to have you on. 109 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,360 Good to talk to you again. Scott, it's always a pleasure to 110 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,960 talk IE basketball with you. You know, I have a ton of 111 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,160 respect for you and Galen and kind of laying the. 112 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,040 The groundwork for all of us who followed after you in the IU 113 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,520 podcasting game. So anytime you want to have me 114 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,000 on Crimson Cast the answer is always going to be yes. 115 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,080 I will say, you know it's it's grown on me the the Crimson cast 116 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,000 name and I I named our pod but it's like I inside the hall is 117 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,240 just the best name like you you killed it on naming like well 118 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,840 done years ago. I I'm so proud of you for the 119 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:06,840 name. It's it's well done. 120 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,000 I can't. I can't take credit for it 121 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,240 because. I've told the story before when 122 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,200 we were when Ryan and Eamon and I were coming up with the name 123 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,440 for the site. We I still actually have the 124 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,000 Gmail thread where the names. I'd love to know what toss 125 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,440 about. And some of the ones that didn't 126 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,840 make the cut are I'm glad they didn't make the cut, but Eamon, 127 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:29,240 actually, it's credit for tossing out the name inside the 128 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,240 hall is like, we've been trying to figure this out for a couple 129 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,200 weeks and he just throws that inside the hall. 130 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:35,760 I'm like. Wow. 131 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,960 I'll go register it right now. What a great name. 132 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,960 So he gets all the credit for that. 133 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:40,560 So that's great. Yeah. 134 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 If you're not, if you're not following his latest venture 135 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,800 too, I'll give him a a free shout out here. 136 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,360 Go to eamonbrennan.com and check out his work that he's doing 137 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:49,760 over on Sub Stack. Really good stuff. 138 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,000 No, he's fantastic. You've had a lot of good people 139 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,680 come through there so it's it's been you have a good eye for 140 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,520 talent as well. I'd I'd love to know that list 141 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,880 of like is like Creed, Creed and Crimson on there. 142 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,160 Like, I think you guys started. Actually, you're Samson. 143 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,800 You're like Samson, right? Yeah, it was the first year of 144 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,280 the first year of Inside the Hall was the year that kind of 145 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,560 everything came falling down. So it was like the summer before 146 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,240 Eric Gordon plays for Indiana, so there's all the high 147 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,120 expectations. And remember that season I think 148 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:20,840 they beat. It was like what Purdue and 149 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,560 Michigan State at home, back-to-back they did, yeah. 150 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,560 And also, they wanted Illinois too, because I remember it was a 151 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,800 huge game because that was Eric Gordon, like going back and 152 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,160 yeah. Yeah, thanked in the shot. 153 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,160 So yeah, it was. After that, it got pretty bleak, 154 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,280 man. Not, not, not the greatest time 155 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,480 to enter the the IE basketball market. 156 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,560 I always joke with people, you know, really, it's been amazing 157 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,200 just to kind of see the site grow and the support despite the 158 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,080 lack of success for the program because really there there's not 159 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,680 even been an Elite Eight since we've been doing this. 160 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,400 There's been a couple Big 10 championships. 161 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,000 There's been I think what, 36 Sweet Sixteens. 162 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,760 But other than that. A lot of seasons to forget 163 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,560 sprinkled in there. So yeah, hopefully one one of 164 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,040 these days we'll get to talk about a lead eight, Final Four 165 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:10,880 something. You know, it's funny. 166 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,960 We I was, you know, we we had our one thousandth episode and I 167 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,800 went back and I found some of our original first episode, our 168 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:22,520 first season and it's like we started in 2009, like the Big 169 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,440 10. This we started when the Big 10 170 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,440 season started in Queen's first year and it's like we're doing 171 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,360 preview and postgame podcast at that point. 172 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:32,960 It was just just me doing half of them. 173 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,520 And it's like, I look back like, what the hell was I doing? 174 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,000 Like we were like, what we're going into a teeth of like a one 175 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,679 in 14 season and we're doing these previews like playing 176 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,640 Michigan. It's like you're going to lose. 177 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,840 That's it. Like moving on. 178 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,520 But yeah, it's it's wild that we both started in that era and it 179 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,720 was it was a rough time. But you you bring up a great 180 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:50,640 thing. That actually is the first 181 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,600 question I wanted to ask you something I've been thinking 182 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,040 about. You know, this is you tell me if 183 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,600 I'm crazy. I don't want to start off too 184 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,560 optimistic, but this is one of the first times in the last 20 185 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:05,880 years, the other time being right kind of in that, you know, 186 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,680 Stew of the Zeller Oladipo #1 team. 187 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,040 This is the first time that I actually see a path for us to 188 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,280 get back to where I think we all want to be as a fan base. 189 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,840 Now I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I look at what 190 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,640 Woodson's doing on the court, you know, getting, you know, the 191 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,320 guys he got this all Stevens aware and Embako and some of 192 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,640 those pieces. You know, I know we just didn't 193 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,640 get, you know, boogie flan as a 5 star, but we got Liam Mcneely, 194 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,040 you know, we're we have five stars in the hopper. 195 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,040 It seems like there's a plan in recruiting. 196 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,400 I'm not saying it's going to happen, but if I look at it like 197 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,520 this is the first year I can see a plan and see a path where it's 198 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,280 like, hey, if this team does pretty good and then we get like 199 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,480 two more five stars next year and then, you know, Woodson 200 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,760 really is able to get this going. 201 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,760 Like I I see for the first time in 20 years a path to us being 202 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,880 to where I want to be. Tell me if I'm crazy or if you 203 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,600 kind of feel the same thing too. I would say from my perspective, 204 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:06,320 the biggest compliment I can give Mike Woodson thus far in 205 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,720 his tenure is just kind of getting the stability back with 206 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,160 the program. Yeah, it seemed like for so long 207 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,840 it was on a roller coaster. Up and down there would be, you 208 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,800 know, the highs of the Queen era followed by a really bad season. 209 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,520 And then obviously we know all know how the Archie era played 210 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:23,120 out. But. 211 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,640 The fact that Woodson's come into a program and kind of laid 212 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,840 the, you know, the first two seasons expectation is going to 213 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,120 we're going to make the tournament, right. 214 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,040 So I think that's kind of the first step every year Indiana 215 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,400 needs to be in the tournament. So if they make it again this 216 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,720 year and they finish in, let's say the top half of the Big 10, 217 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,960 because I think obviously the size of the league continues to 218 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,680 grow, I mean, it's going to be 18 teams next year, so. 219 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,280 You could be the 8th or 9th best team in the Big 10 and still be 220 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:51,960 pretty good. You know, next year, even this 221 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,440 year, I think if you're 6th or 7th, I know people want to 222 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,240 finish higher than that, but I still think if you're in the top 223 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,600 half, you're still a pretty good team. 224 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:03,800 So I think just being setting like the baseline expectation of 225 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,040 being in the tournament every year, I I think if you can 226 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,320 continue to stack those appearances eventually I think 227 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,160 you're going to breakthrough in some manner, right? 228 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,040 If if you continue to have the talent that he's been able to to 229 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,560 bring in, I think. He's connected very well with 230 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,280 the players on the on the roster. 231 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:26,720 It seems like everybody's very happy just to to be on the team 232 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,640 and to play for him. Has a good relationship with 233 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,040 him, which is something we couldn't always say in the in 234 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,880 the middle of our era, in the green era, it seemed like, you 235 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,120 know that he would. Most of those coaches would wear 236 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,040 guys down a little bit and they would maybe grow weary of some 237 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,960 of the things that they did from a coaching perspective or just, 238 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,120 you know, whatever conflicts they have, but it seems like. 239 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:50,160 I I've not heard really anything that seems to suggest that any 240 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,760 players have anything but love for Mike Woodson. 241 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,160 And I think having that connection with the players, 242 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,320 being able to get talent and then being able to get to the 243 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,800 tournament every year. I don't know if you can really 244 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,800 set like an expectation of hey, this year we have to get to the 245 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,240 Sweet 16 or this year we have to get to the final Four because in 246 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,600 the tournament we all know anything can happen. 247 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,240 I think you want to give yourself a chance to get in, get 248 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,480 a favorable seed, and then and then see what happens. 249 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,040 So. I agree with you in terms of the 250 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:23,440 optimism from the standpoint of I think he's just brought a 251 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,080 solid foundation to the tournament or to the to the 252 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,280 program. I think the next step is all 253 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,200 right, The first year he he got into what, the playing game and 254 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,680 then they they played they won a game and lost to Saint Mary's 255 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,520 last year. They get to the second round. 256 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,440 So. So now I'm not saying it has to 257 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,360 happen this season, but I think the next step is let's get to 258 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,480 the second weekend and and see how that goes and then you just 259 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,880 kind of have to build from there, but. 260 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,480 It's not like he took over a completely bare cup cupboard 261 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,040 either. I mean obviously having Trace 262 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,480 Jackson Davis there in the program kind of set you up to 263 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,560 have some success, but to his credit, he has been able to fill 264 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,640 in some of the gaps. Saber Johnson was a great get I 265 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,360 think from the transfer portal getting Miller cop and then this 266 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:09,200 this past offseason being able to bring in where as you 267 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,320 mentioned in Bako, I think Anthony Walker can be a piece 268 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,000 that helps. Getting a guy like Gabe Cubs who 269 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,120 is probably going to be what, a three or four year player that 270 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,160 gives you those are just continuing to have these 271 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,000 incremental steps I think ultimately set you up for 272 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,520 success in the long run. Yeah, no, I agree. 273 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,920 I the the thing that I'm really curious to see this year is you 274 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,920 know what, this year is so interesting because there's so 275 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,880 many new pieces, you know, so, so many changes. 276 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,200 The thing that I'm really interested in is, you know how 277 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,240 much of the offense the last two years was Woodson just running 278 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,320 based on what he had in that Trace Jackson Davis was awesome, 279 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,000 but Trace Jackson Davis was kind of, you know, the sun that 280 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,120 everybody orbited around and you kind of you had to create an 281 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,400 offense around Trace Jackson Davis. 282 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,200 It's not like same thing Purdue's having with Zach Edie. 283 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,520 It's like you you can't not do something with that you know 284 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,640 asset, but it's also it's limiting in a very weird way. 285 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,760 I'm really curious to see how our offense runs this year and I 286 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,040 think it's what makes this year's projections so hard as 287 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,160 there's so many question marks. But it's also like I don't know 288 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,880 if last year, last two years that was the offense Woodson 289 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,840 wanted to run or if the OR if he just looked at his pieces and 290 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,120 says this is the this is the best offense that I can run and 291 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,040 maximize the pieces that I have. Well, we're going to find out 292 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,080 pretty soon if he was just running that offense because of 293 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,360 the personnel that he had. The one thing that kind of gives 294 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,640 me pause when I look at this roster and say all this, OK, all 295 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,520 of a sudden are they going to shoot a bunch more threes? 296 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,520 I just kind of look down the names of some of these guys. 297 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,680 Yeah, like who's going to do? Who's going to make, who's going 298 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,120 to take the threes? Who's going to take the high 299 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,200 volume of threes? Trey Galloway, I talked to him 300 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,280 at media today a little bit about about that and and he was 301 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,920 mentioning just, you know he he feels like he could be a guy 302 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,360 that maybe takes a little bit more volume but also he has to I 303 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,280 think become a little bit more comfortable just kind of. 304 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,640 Letting the shot fly when it comes to him and then you you 305 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,320 look at the other guy who's Avery Johnson. 306 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,160 I don't know that you want him taking, I mean he's he shot a 307 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,360 pretty good percentage but do you want him taking six or seven 308 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,320 threes a game? I I don't know CJ Gunn, such a 309 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,280 small sample size coming off the bench last year but his his 310 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,280 percentage I believe from three-point range was below 10. 311 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,040 So that's not necessarily something that we that the 312 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,000 Indiana fans can count on coming through this year. 313 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,600 I think he's going to obviously be much better. 314 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,800 Wild card I guess is Imbacco. He was a pretty high volume 3 315 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,360 point shooter at the EYBL level. I think most people think 316 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,160 they're going to try to line up with Imbacco and wire and renew. 317 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,800 We'll see how that works out if it if it does come to fruition. 318 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,320 But in that scenario if he is playing the three, I think he's 319 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,520 going to have to take some threes. 320 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:58,040 But I I just don't foresee a large jump in three-point volume 321 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,080 with this roster. I could see it the following 322 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,440 year when you bring in Liam Mcneely and maybe you do a 323 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,160 better job in the portal of getting a guard or two that can 324 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,200 be a higher volume than 3 point shooter. 325 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,880 But I I just look at this roster and I I look at Kilo Ware, I 326 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,520 look at Malik Renew, I look at Peyton Sparks. 327 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,160 These are guys that are going to be getting scoring opportunity 328 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,960 opportunities on a lot of possessions and they're not 329 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,680 going to be coming from beyond three-point range. 330 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,200 I mean you you kind of feel the same way just in terms of the 331 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,760 volume of of three-point shots. I just don't see the roster set 332 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,880 up to be. This team that's going to all of 333 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,800 a sudden come out and take you know 2025 threes a game. 334 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,720 Yeah, I I tend to agree. Although last year it felt like 335 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,320 threes were just such an afterthought like that. 336 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,200 That's the you know, like you had Miller Cop who was a really 337 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,560 good 3 point shooter and they just didn't get him the ball a 338 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,440 lot or at least it felt like they weren't getting him the 339 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,680 ball a lot. You know, the the the positive 340 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,640 way you can look at is, you know, Woodson, I'm not trying to 341 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,400 be an apologist here like I'm I'm just trying to stay 342 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,560 positive. But you look at Woodson like you 343 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,240 know first year the team shot 33% from three, last year was 344 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,800 36%. So like they're making 345 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,480 incremental gains. I I agree with you though I do 346 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,280 look at it as like you know what we've missed is kind of that 347 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,280 Jordan Halls, Matt Roth kind of like we have a dead eye 3 point 348 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,760 shooter you you kind of had that with Miller Cop, but you saw it 349 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,400 last year where he was. It was really hard to get him 350 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,240 the volume that you wanted to get or they just weren't looking 351 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,920 to him to for that volume. I I guess I'm also just more 352 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,400 interested in not that you need more volume in three-point 353 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,880 shooting, but just you know is the offense going to be run a 354 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,200 little more you know guard to post versus last year was very 355 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,040 post to guard. It was very much like it went 356 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,760 into Trace and then it came back out and that just kind of 357 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,120 limited things and it slowed things down at times. 358 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,360 But you know, last year is a tough I, I, I continue to go 359 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:47,240 back and you know, the more I look retrospectively at last 360 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,040 year, the more I'm impressed with what Woodson did and what 361 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,120 the pieces that you had and that, you know, you had to do 362 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,360 that. But it's also like you lost 363 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,920 Xavier Johnson, you know, a third of the way in and 364 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,520 basically you're just like, all right, our backcourt is Jalen 365 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:01,360 Hood. Like there's a there's a 366 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:03,400 freshman who's really not a point guard, who's supposed to 367 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:04,840 be a two guard. And it's like we're going to put 368 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,960 all the responsibilities of everything in the backcourt on 369 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,840 your shoulders and it's it's going to work. 370 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,320 You know, I just, I don't think in the sands of time that the 371 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,120 Xavier Johnson injury is just not going to be remembered 372 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,320 enough at how much it really probably fouled up last season. 373 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,200 And as good as Jalen Hood Schaffino was, he probably could 374 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,720 have even been better had Xavier been there the entire year. 375 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,400 So I just I I I'm curious to see how that all works. 376 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,160 But yet as you mentioned, you know, if it's going to be a 377 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,880 guard heavy team this year, it's like where who are the guards 378 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,080 going to be? Like you have Xavier Johnson, 379 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,200 then it's kind of like you have Trey Galloway and then it's kind 380 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,320 of like a lot of question marks. So it might we might end up 381 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,680 being in the same boat again this year where we're doing a 382 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,640 lot of playing out of the post because that's where a lot of 383 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,920 the talent seems to be. Yeah. 384 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,840 And I think, Mike, as you mentioned, I think Mike Woodson 385 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,160 deserves a lot of credit for the job that he did last year 386 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,360 because I agree with you that Zabre Johnson was a big loss, 387 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:01,920 not just from an offensive perspective from, but from a 388 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,120 defensive perspective. If you go watch the game last 389 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:09,200 year against North Carolina and how impactful he was, just 390 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,120 making Caleb Love and RJ Davis completely uncomfortable from 391 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,520 the tip in that game. And then you watched Indiana 392 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,840 later in the season. They clearly went the same 393 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,480 defensive team now. Obviously this year, I don't 394 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,120 know what it's going to look like defensively without Trace 395 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,560 because he was able to, with what he was able to do in the 396 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,360 paint, blocking so many shots. That's kind of an equalizer, 397 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,920 right? If you have a breakdown on the 398 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,840 perimeter and you have somebody getting in the lane, you have 399 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,800 Trace back there, then he can alter shots, he can block shots, 400 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,760 he can just make things more difficult. 401 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,000 I don't know if that's going to be the kind of the same thing 402 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,400 this year, but the other thing is just offensively last year. 403 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,080 But if I'm Mike Woodson, I kind of would have done what he did 404 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,600 was just put the ball in the hands of two guys that are now 405 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,600 playing in the NBA, right? I mean, at Purdue you don't win 406 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,400 unless you just give Jalen Hood Shaffino the ball and say go get 407 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,280 35, right? That that's why Indiana won that 408 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,080 game. There's plenty of other games 409 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,880 where they weren't going to win unless Trace had a huge night 410 00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,880 they weren't going to, you know, it wasn't going to be anyone 411 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,840 else but those two guys. So I think this season we get 412 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,520 maybe do get to see more of. What he wants to do from a 413 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,760 schematic perspective, because I don't necessarily think you have 414 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,720 that go to bona fide superstar in the rush. 415 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,960 I mean there there's obviously guys with a lot of talent, but 416 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,160 they're not maybe as as going to be as polished offensively as 417 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,640 what we saw out of Trace and Jalen Hitchafina last year. 418 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,920 Well, and the thing, the the thing with Trace Jackson Davis 419 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,120 and and the Woodson connection that you know is really amazing 420 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:43,520 to me. And again, just. 421 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,600 Looking at what Woodson did last year, you know you had trace two 422 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,000 years under Archie and he kind of he honestly regressed a 423 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,280 little bit of sophomore year when you look at the numbers and 424 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,840 and he became a really limited player in those two years under 425 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,760 Archie. And then you look at what 426 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,880 Woodson was able to do in two years and if I'm if I'm Woodson, 427 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,320 I'm selling this all over the place and talking about it, it's 428 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,200 like trace it it you know his first year was was good under 429 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,440 Woodson but. Last year, you know, he became 430 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,720 so much more, you know, efficient. 431 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,040 But also like, like I said, he was running the offense and he 432 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,200 started to pass and he started, you know, everybody's like, Oh 433 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,640 my God, you got to take a bunch more threes. 434 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:19,800 And I was kind of in that camp too. 435 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,640 Like if you want to be an NBA player, you can't have this 436 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,560 game. And I I still think he's going 437 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,720 to have to get a bit of an outside shot, but. 438 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,200 You you saw like his ability to to get assist. 439 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,560 He's getting triple double s and you know basically the offense 440 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,840 was running through Trace Jackson Davis and he was 441 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,840 bringing the ball. But he was a de facto guard for 442 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,880 half of the half of the season and became like the, you know, 443 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,240 the third most, you know statistical best player on Ken 444 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,000 Palm. You know, was national player of 445 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,400 the year candidate. And to me that all goes to both. 446 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,080 It's both Trace and Woodson, like Woodson devising a game 447 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,600 plan, getting him to work on those. 448 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,880 Those skills and kind of taking a guy who was really borderline 449 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,280 not going to be drafted to, I mean he was drafted and now it's 450 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,120 like you look at the Warriors and like, hey man, this guys, 451 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:02,840 awesome. Like, I mean he's not you know 452 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,800 there's even like little talk of like is this the Draymond Green 453 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,560 replacement? And again, that's that's 454 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,960 different, different podcasts for the NBA. 455 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,080 But to me it's like that's that's a huge sell and that 456 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,000 that's a huge sell for everybody on the team. 457 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,240 And I look at that and it's like all right, can Woodson do that 458 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,280 with you know with where you know get his motor going, he do 459 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,240 that with Renew this year. You know, it's like Woodson now 460 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,400 kind of has that history of. I can take a guy and really add 461 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,720 pieces to his game. So I guess I'm, I'm curious see 462 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,160 who he does it, if he's able to do it again and who he does it 463 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,200 with this year. But that's that's the piece as 464 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,480 we look back on Trace Jackson Davis that it's like his, the 465 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,560 things that he added to his game his senior year, it's really, it 466 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,360 was kind of small, but it was also big when you really looked 467 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,440 at it. Well, I think the most important 468 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,080 thing that he added, you kind of spoke to it a little bit at the 469 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,800 end of what you just said. There was the motor, right? 470 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,680 He? Yeah, going back and watching 471 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,040 him in high school, I remember watching him playing for Center 472 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,120 Grove. He was obviously most games that 473 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,680 I saw him. He was the most talented player 474 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,720 on the quarter. When he's playing Romeo, he was 475 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,960 probably the second most talented back in those days. 476 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,880 But when he got to Indiana, he was a good player, but he wasn't 477 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,960 a great player. And I think what Woodson kind of 478 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,880 was able to instill in him was, all right, you're talented, you 479 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,280 can do all these things. But to make yourself a pro, to 480 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,160 make yourself an all American, you're going to have to play a 481 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,440 lot harder than what than what you have played in the past. 482 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,640 And I think if you go back and watch the games last season and 483 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,400 compare them to the earlier games in his career, he was 484 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,200 running the floor harder. He was way more aggressive 485 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,120 trying to block shots. Some of that was skiing because 486 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,960 Archie kind of didn't want him going out of his area to try to 487 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,480 block shots. But on the on the glass I mean 488 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,040 he was he had a he had a hand on pretty much any rebound that he 489 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,120 wanted to try to go get. Those are kind of the subtle 490 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,120 things that that show up over the course of the season and 491 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,800 kind of make you a all American when it's all said and done. 492 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,000 The talent was never a question. I do agree with you that he was 493 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,560 much better as a passer last year out of the post and reading 494 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,320 situations. You're right he almost did have 495 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,360 some some moments where you're like he has some guard skills 496 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,760 here. Yeah, but I think the the you, 497 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,440 you made a really interesting point there. 498 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,680 Like can Mike Woodson unlock these things out of Cole Weir? 499 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,400 Because Cole Weir was a what, a top seven player coming out of 500 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,000 high school. He was a guy that people thought 501 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,440 was going to be a lottery pick after year. 502 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,280 He goes to Oregon and Mike Woodson hasn't been shy about 503 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,160 talking about like they called you lazy, they called you, you 504 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,080 know, like you didn't want to work. 505 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:39,680 If you're going to come here, you're going to have to do that. 506 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,000 So let's see. It could be scary, right? 507 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,560 If, if he does unlock that out of him because the talent has 508 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,840 never been a question. I think Malik Renew I I thought 509 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,600 last season had a pretty good year based on just kind of the 510 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,840 role that he was asked to play. You're a 5 star freshman. 511 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,920 You're coming in behind Race Thompson and Trace Jackson, 512 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:00,960 Davis. Those are guys that are 513 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,360 obviously going to gobble up most of the minutes. 514 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,080 He had a he had a problem staying on the floor due to foul 515 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,920 trouble. But I think he's another guy 516 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,840 that it looks like he's in better shape to me this year. 517 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,800 He's worked on his body. If he can just kind of ratchet 518 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,440 up the intensity and play a little bit harder, you know, I 519 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,440 just think that's it's kind of a cliche, but it's true. 520 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,880 I mean the the margins are so thin sometimes with but these 521 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,360 guys are all talented. They all have ability. 522 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,440 It's being able to focus on the little details and being able to 523 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,600 execute and and figure out you know how to get to your spots, 524 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,880 how to be the guy down the court for an easy basket, how to chase 525 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,880 down a loose ball. Those are the kind of things 526 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,320 that show up over the course of the season. 527 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,040 And if those two guys in particular can buy into that, I 528 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,320 think Indiana has a chance to have a really high ceiling as a 529 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,800 team. The the thing with where that I 530 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,000 that makes me you know positive about this season and I always 531 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,600 say it's in the offseason like and I'm I'm as guilty of it as 532 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,560 anybody that you know you start doing like the pre you start 533 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,600 looking at the season it's like it's very easy to just assume 534 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,880 that everyone like in the old like you know you know the old 535 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,080 NCAA Football games where it's like guys would go from you know 536 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,880 a 78 to an 85. It's like, it's very easy to 537 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,800 assume that everyone's just going to have the the perfect 538 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,840 offseason and it's like, well, this guy's going to get better 539 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,960 and that guy's like. It just doesn't work that way. 540 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,920 Like somebody's going to regress, somebody's not going to 541 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,280 get better and somebody will get better and it's trying to figure 542 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,240 that out, but not everyone's going to have the perfect 543 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,240 offseason. All of that said, you know, the 544 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,200 two things that I'm positive or I'm excited for for this year 545 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,200 is, as you said, the the kind of the question with where is is 546 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,920 the motor. It's like he went to Oregon and 547 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,920 it was kind of like, you know, like fish out of water didn't 548 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,640 seem to to connect. His first ten games were pretty 549 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,680 good, and then it seemed like he just kind of checked out, which 550 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,520 isn't awesome. But like, like we both said, 551 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,840 like, I I think there's a part where I think Woodson's pushing 552 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,320 him. But you know, it's funny, I 553 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,880 remember in the the early years of Korean, it was all about, you 554 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,960 know, we got to build an identity. 555 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,240 We got to have seniors who can teach our freshmen. 556 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,800 To me, it's like that there's no better senior that I want 557 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,400 leading A-Team like this than Xavier Johnson, 'cause it's like 558 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,880 the the if the problem is motor, it's like Xavier will solve 559 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,320 that. Like like Xavier is a guy you 560 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,880 got to almost pull back a little bit. 561 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,920 Like I don't see him. Telling where like all right man 562 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,480 it's a couple days off like I think he's going to push where 563 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,080 harder than anybody on this team. 564 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,840 So I feel good about that. The other thing you mentioned 565 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,400 like Renew being a 5 star like this goes back to my thought 566 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,760 about you know why I think we are in the right direction is 567 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,160 you know as as IU fans we just haven't had a lot of like 5 star 568 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,000 talent coming through here and unfortunately it's kind of like 569 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200 we'd have one it's like oh we got hotter parade it's like that 570 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,520 didn't work. It's like we're getting kind of 571 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,280 these like. Pseudo 5 stars there's no knock 572 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,080 on the players. They're good. 573 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,320 But the Christian Lander and it's like you get one and then 574 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,600 it's like you get like a Romeo Langford. 575 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,560 He's good. But like not all five stars are 576 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,160 created the same. You know the Eric Gordon's the 577 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,360 Jalen Hood Shaffinos that they're kind of unique. 578 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,400 But what I like that we're starting to do is like you're 579 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,240 stacking multiple five stars on a team. 580 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,080 So you have, you know, this team has Renew Ware and Embako. 581 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:07,720 Not all of them are going to be awesome, but like that's what 582 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,840 makes Kentucky Kansas Duke good is like when you're getting four 583 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,160 or five, five stars a a season. And again, we're looking at, you 584 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,760 know, Liam Mcneely a couple next year. 585 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,400 You know they're not all going to be awesome, but it's like 586 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080 there there's a better hit rate. Like if you start getting two 587 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,320 and three on your team, one of them is going to be good. 588 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,640 And then you can deal with it. I think the problem that we've 589 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,400 had over the years is like we just get one and it's like I 590 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,800 really hope that this is the right one. 591 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,120 And some years it's not, some years it is. 592 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,960 So anyway a lot, a lot there to digest. 593 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,480 But that that's what gets me excited is I think we're 594 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,400 starting to stack talent on talent. 595 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,880 And between the three of those guys, I think one of them will 596 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,440 pop this year. Yeah, I mean, the thing that 597 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,440 made like Trace Jackson Davis unique is kind of like the five 598 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,280 star, borderline 5 stars he stuck around four years, right? 599 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,600 Yeah, typically going to see that with these guys. 600 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,560 And so I think that with a guy like Malik Renew, I think he was 601 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,840 like right on the range of, I think he was top 25, top 30. 602 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,040 But he's not a guy that's going to bolt right away for the NBA. 603 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,440 It's just like his profile and how his game is and I think he 604 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,080 could eventually be a pro, but it's going to take him some time 605 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,360 to develop. Those are really kind of the 606 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,760 guys I think you can kind of build a program with. 607 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,680 And if you can get them to stick around, you know, Romeo Langford 608 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,920 is great to get and Noah Vonleh is great to get. 609 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,440 But if they're just there for what, 9-10 months and then 610 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,600 they're gone and they don't really help do anything in terms 611 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,680 of winning, then they're quickly forgotten. 612 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,600 I mean, I think people obviously remember those guys somewhat, 613 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,160 but they're not going to be like lasting memories of IU 614 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,280 basketball because they didn't really win anything and they 615 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:46,840 were just there for one year. So I think with just, there's 616 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,680 the problem there. There's kind of like a bit of a 617 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,560 problem with recruiting 5 stars from the standpoint of if that's 618 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,040 what you're going to, that's like the primary component of 619 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,560 your team is going to be like you better get them every year, 620 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:00,680 right? Because a lot of them are going 621 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,560 to be gone quickly. So that's why Kentucky and Duke 622 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,440 and Kansas have been able to contain it because they been 623 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,440 able to maintain it is because they can land those type of 624 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,280 players year in and year out. I think Woodson's done a pretty 625 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,440 good job now every every year getting a couple of those guys. 626 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,520 So if you can get those guys and then sprinkle it in with guys 627 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,560 like Trey Galloway or find some portal guys that can really kind 628 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,560 of bring everything together, I think that's where you can kind 629 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,400 of see the consistency come from. 630 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,240 The other thing I'll say about where is and this is just kind 631 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,200 of a business perspective from him, right? 632 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,360 So he comes out of high school as this five star guy he's 633 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,040 talked about as a potential lottery pick after one year, 634 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,000 right? So NBA scouts are are watching 635 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,160 him and he goes to Oregon and he has this up and down year. 636 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,800 They're still the flashes of talent. 637 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,120 Who knows if he would have declared for the draft, maybe a 638 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,160 team would have taken a chance on him in the second round. 639 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,720 But he's he's probably thinking to himself, I can do better than 640 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,000 this. I'm going to go somewhere else 641 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,000 and try to boost my stock. So this is really, I feel like 642 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,800 it like if he wants to be a first round pick or a lottery 643 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,400 pick, like this is his year to do it. 644 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,920 Because once you're in college for more than two or three 645 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,960 years, the NBA kind of starts to put you down the list, right? 646 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,920 Because there's an 18 or 19 year old kid that they can draft and 647 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,280 say I've got this guy, he's a year younger, I can get him in 648 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,680 my system, I can develop them the way I want want. 649 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,960 And there's just not a lot of examples of guys who stay in 650 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,880 college for three years and are a high draft pick. 651 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,840 I mean there's some but so I I think for him like if he's not 652 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,120 motivated to come in this year and be like the best version of 653 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,480 himself that he can be and kind of because it make no mistake 654 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,320 about it he's in. I mean a lot of these guys their 655 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,400 their their dream is to get to the NBA right. 656 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,760 This is his opportunity. I've his best opportunity to 657 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,200 kind of rebuild his stock and be that player that a lot of people 658 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,400 thought he could be out of high school. 659 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,480 So it's kind of a make or break year for him in terms of the 660 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,120 NBA. Not saying that he couldn't make 661 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,120 it if he has to stay in college for multiple years, but I think 662 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,040 if he wants to be a lottery pick or a first round pick, this is 663 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,760 his chance to do it. So we'll see how, how motivated 664 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,840 he is to take Mike Woodson's advice to heart and realize 665 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,200 like, you can't just float around that out there and show 666 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,440 up for for games when you want to or, you know, play hard when 667 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:23,680 you want to. I mean, it's got to be a 668 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,440 consistent thing because, I mean, there's what 60 guys 669 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,840 picked a year we just saw with Romeo Langford. 670 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,720 I thought coming out of high school he was one of the most 671 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,080 polished scorers that I had seen watching high school basketball. 672 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,320 And I've been going to games in southern Indiana since the early 673 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,840 90s. I've seen a lot of good players, 674 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,560 a lot of Division One players. I've seen pros at different EYBL 675 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,160 events. He was one of the better pure 676 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,640 scores that that I've seen. He's basically out of the NBA at 677 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,040 this point. I mean, he just got cut by Utah 678 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,600 because he didn't. I mean he never really 679 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,840 distinguished himself in terms of just having one or two things 680 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,280 that he did really well consistently on a night in, 681 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,920 night out basis on the NBA court. 682 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,240 So clearly there's got to figure out what he's going to do night 683 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,600 in and night out that's at an elite level and he's got to do 684 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,920 it consistently or he's, I mean, his chance to be, I think what 685 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,200 he, what he desired to be out of high school is going to be very 686 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,240 limited. I think that's a fantastic 687 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,920 point. I would, I would add on this if 688 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,680 anybody's interested. This was a couple weeks ago on 689 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,960 the Bill Simmons Podcast. He had Austin Rivers on. 690 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,440 And it was one of the most interesting discussions I've 691 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,080 heard. And and Rivers talked about me 692 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,600 very quick because it's nothing to do with IU. 693 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,160 But Rivers talked about, Rivers talked about how, you know, he 694 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,480 went from basically being a stud in high school, like #1 player 695 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,400 in Duke. And he's like within 18 months I 696 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,960 was on the bench in New Orleans and like he, he got drafted in 697 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,280 the same class as Anthony Davis. And he's like, normally when 698 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,120 you're a lottery pick, you come in, they get the red carpet. 699 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,280 He's like, that was Anthony Davis. 700 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,640 I was still a lottery pick, but it's like. 701 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,040 I was second tier and then like that offseason he got injured 702 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,000 and I think that offseason they they they get Drew Holiday and 703 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,280 they get I think Eric Gordon. They got somebody else. 704 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,440 Suddenly he's like he's the third, the third guard on a 705 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,560 team. He's like, I'm suddenly a role 706 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,680 player and now he's like, I'm just a role player and it's like 707 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,000 now and he's he's like, it was a really interesting discussion 708 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,480 but to your point on the Romeo like it goes quick. 709 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,440 Like you get to the NBA goes quick and I think your point on 710 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,239 where is is spot on and I think that's something. 711 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,639 To look at this year because I think you're 100% right like if 712 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,199 he comes out and if you're aware like that you look at this it's 713 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,520 like hey man you're going to play against like they they just 714 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,679 had the the the preseason all American team like Hunter 715 00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:33,480 Dickinson's on there Zach Edie's on there obviously like if 716 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,400 you're aware you're A7 footer you're playing against two of 717 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,080 the top guys in the on the all American team you're going to 718 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,440 get three shots at them. If you go out there and you 719 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,880 average you know, 17 points a game and you put up big games 720 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,639 against those guys and you, you lead Indiana, it's like a top 721 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,040 three Big 10 finish or something like dude, you're a lottery 722 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,760 pick. Like Congrats, you got it. 723 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,120 And to your. Point if you come out and kind 724 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,240 of zone in and out and you you score 7-8 points a game, it's 725 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,000 it's not over. Nothing is over. 726 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,640 But you are right When you look at the NBA, it's funny. 727 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,040 Like I talked to friends who are not huge NBA fans. 728 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,920 I like the NBA a lot. Like trying to explain to them 729 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,000 it's like, yes, Trace Jackson Davis is a right now, you know, 730 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,680 last year was a better basketball player than Jalen 731 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,440 Hood Chaffino. Like, no question. 732 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,720 Jalen Chaffino is definitely a lottery pick, and Trace was 733 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:22,440 barely drafted. It's like it has nothing so 734 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,120 little to do with what you are as a player. 735 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,760 It has to do with, like, potential. 736 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,000 It has to do with when your next contract is like, that's a 737 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,480 problem Trace is going to run into, is like his next contract 738 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,080 he's going to be 2728. Like Jalen will be 23. 739 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,560 It's like there's so many other factors, like age is such a big 740 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,440 piece and most of these teams in the NBA look at it. 741 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,320 It's like, all right if you have one elite skill. 742 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,200 We can figure the rest out. If we get you under our tutelage 743 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,440 for two or three years, like we can add those things. 744 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,680 But you're right. If you're if you're Khalil Ware 745 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,160 and you're now 21 or 22 and you've been in college three 746 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,160 years, if he didn't get drafted this year, you're going next 747 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,160 year. It's like teams are like, all 748 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,680 right man, like, well, that's he is what he is and now it's too 749 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,080 late to add it. And even if we did add it, he'd 750 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,680 be 27 by the time he's good and we'll be done. 751 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,600 So I I think that's a a super interest, a great point. 752 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,520 Because it's like, if you're aware, it kind of has to happen 753 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,320 this year if you want to be a lottery pick, Yeah. 754 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,840 And you also have to look at it from the players perspective. 755 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,000 From a lot of these guys, they're used to being the man, 756 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,800 right? They've been told since their 757 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,440 7th and 8th grade or through high school, depending on when 758 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,000 they developed and became a national recruit. 759 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Like they they think they're going to the NBA to be Jason 760 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,000 Tatum or Jalen Brown or Giannis or Jokic. 761 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,640 The reality is there's fifty or sixty players in the NBA that 762 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,080 are what, superstar level talent, maybe less if you even 763 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,880 really drill it down to the guys that you get a Max contract. 764 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,560 I know that the money is going everywhere now, but the guys who 765 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,080 are actually going to make it like This is why I think Trace 766 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,480 Jackson Davis has a chance to have a long NBA career because 767 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,080 he's on a team in a situation where he he's just going to have 768 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,440 to play a role to the best of his ability. 769 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,480 He's it's not going to be what he was in Indiana. 770 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,480 They're not going to be throwing the ball into the post to him. 771 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,120 He's going to need to run back on defense as hard as he can, 772 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:14,360 block shots, finish lobs when he gets them and play hard like 773 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,920 that. Like if he can do those things 774 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,200 with his size and size likeability, he's going to make 775 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,960 a lot of money over the long, long haul. 776 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,560 The guys that don't make it are the ones that aren't able to 777 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,760 see. Like I'm just a role player now 778 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,400 and I and I I got to do one or two things. 779 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:29,920 Like Duncan Robinson is a great example. 780 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,640 When he we watched him at Michigan, he transferred from 781 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,320 the Division Two level. Nobody thought Duncan Robinson 782 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,640 was going to be getting a huge NBA contract, but what can he do 783 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,840 in an elite level? He can shoot right So he's 784 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,280 parlayed that into probably over making over $100 million in the 785 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,920 NBAI mean that's he's not a superstar. 786 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,640 He's not a household name. So just with all these guys I 787 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,040 think that the the hardest like every draft class there's going 788 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,920 to be like one or two three guys that turn into All Star level 789 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,360 superstar level. The rest is about figuring out 790 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,840 where you fit on a roster and being able to, whether it's 791 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,920 bring energy off the bench, whether it's being able to 792 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,600 defend. OG is a great example. 793 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,960 He's not an All Star lower player, but he's gonna make a 794 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,240 ton of money because he's a defensive stopper. 795 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,600 I mean, he's one of the 10 or 15 best defenders in the NBA. 796 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,080 He's probably not gonna be an All Star or a guy that he's a 797 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,200 household name among basketball fans, but he's going to make 798 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,680 hundreds of millions of dollars because he can go out there and 799 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:27,880 play defense to a really good level. 800 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:28,720 Right. Although he's like he's like a 801 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,880 trade all *. Too but like he's a trade Hall 802 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,280 of Famer like O GS been traded for LeBron 30 times like O GS in 803 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,240 every single trade Anyway we are we are off the off the cycle 804 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:41,640 here before before we talk about the the season kind of you know 805 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,200 projections and stuff. The other thing I want to talk 806 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,160 about, just as a program that's changing, that I really like is, 807 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,000 you know. And again not trying to just 808 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,800 blow praise on Woodson. There was times last year I was 809 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,200 very concerned but I really like that he's come in with this 810 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,680 ethos of like hey man we are going to be we're going to play 811 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,040 for a title like we're not maybe we don't get there but like 812 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,520 we're going to treat this program as if and and it's 813 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,200 something. So the scheduling is what I want 814 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,040 to talk about is that you know this is again you see us and we 815 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,120 we we've entered into Atlantis for next year, but this year you 816 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,040 know we're playing in. The the New York game we're 817 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,000 playing Auburn. You know obviously we have the 818 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,760 home and home against Kansas. We got the Kentucky series back. 819 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,720 To me, this is, this is something that has bothered me 820 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:30,040 for the longest time since we've been both doing this this pod, 821 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,200 you know podcasting and inside the hall is you know, I I I 822 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,360 think back to you know Galen did a couple of podcasts where he 823 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,400 recap like old Bob Knight seasons on AI forget the name of 824 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,360 the other podcast but. Like you go back and look at 825 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,880 like the 92 Indiana season and it's like the non conference is 826 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,320 ridiculous. Like we're playing just 827 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,760 everybody and everyone's ranked and it really has bothered me 828 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,160 over the last 15 years. First off it's bad business 829 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,520 because it doesn't get fans excited playing bad games. 830 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,200 It also doesn't help when you're playing you know the cream sub 831 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,880 300 worst teams. It really always seemed to hurt 832 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,360 us trying to get in the tournament, but it always 833 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,080 bothered me when we didn't act as if in the sense that it's 834 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,600 like, hey, we're going to be a big time program. 835 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,080 It it's like it's infuriating to me the Michigan State and 836 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,880 rightfully so just kind of grab that mantle of like hey this 837 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,000 this game that happens in Indy every year with Kansas, 838 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,600 Kentucky. It's like we're just going to be 839 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,520 the big 10 team for that and it's like that should be us but 840 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,400 we're not and we're not scheduling it and like we're not 841 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,520 playing in pre season we've never played Atlantis. 842 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,600 The fact that we're doing bringing this back in. 843 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,840 I I think it's a really good thing. 844 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,160 I think it's better for the program. 845 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,440 I think it's better for recruiting. 846 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,320 I think it's better for fan engagement, but I'm just, I I 847 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,960 love the ethos of like hey, we're going to play a really 848 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,840 tough schedule. We're going to play really you 849 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,880 know, high level teams and we're going to put ourselves back in 850 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,520 the in the discussion and you know, we didn't. 851 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,480 The thing that I think sometimes is hard for fans to understand, 852 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,560 myself included. But it's like last year we lost 853 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,760 to Arizona, we lost to Kansas. It didn't affect us like I mean 854 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,480 it did. Wins are great, but it's like 855 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,160 it's not like we were still a protected seed in the 856 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,840 tournament. You know, this year we could 857 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,720 lose to UConn, we could lose to Auburn, we can lose to Kansas. 858 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:11,320 We could still be a five seed in the tournament. 859 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,760 Like good games against good teams don't. 860 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,840 Losses don't hurt you. At some point you need to start 861 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,400 winning those games. But I just, I love that we are 862 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,560 starting to schedule as if we are one of the premier teams in 863 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,720 the Big 10 and in the country. Yeah, I think there's a couple 864 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:32,040 of things with Woodson from the scheduling perspective. 865 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,920 First off, he's never going to be a guy that. 866 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,360 Beats around the Bush when he talks about expectation. 867 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,560 He came in from the beginning talking about national 868 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,280 championships and Big 10 championships. 869 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,800 That tells me he understands the fan base and what the 870 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,560 expectation is. He's not afraid to to speak what 871 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,480 everybody's thinking. If you would have come in and 872 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,240 said, hey, I just want to get in the top half of the Big 10 and I 873 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,000 maybe want to make the tournament every other year, 874 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,320 let's beat Rutgers once, That's. That's not what Indiana fans 875 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,040 want to hear. So he understands the audience, 876 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,040 like Indiana fans, to their credit, are. 877 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,680 Some of the, you know, the most knowledgeable fans in college 878 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,160 basketball, they're not stupid. So their expectations, whether 879 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,760 they're too high or not, is a completely separate debate. 880 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,480 But at least come out and say this is what I aspire to do, and 881 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,120 then back it up by playing a schedule that, you know, backs 882 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:22,720 that up. He's done that, to his credit. 883 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,200 So I also think it. He's just where he is in his 884 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,240 career. I mean he's coached for so long. 885 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,560 He's, you know he's been with the Knicks. 886 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,800 He's been in the NBA so long. Like this is his one chance to 887 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,160 coach a college program. He's not there's not going to be 888 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,200 like a slow build to do like he's going to go in full tilt 889 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:40,640 and say this is what we're going to do. 890 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,960 You know, you're completely right. 891 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,080 Last season they they got blown out by what Kansas and Arizona. 892 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,040 It didn't affect anything. I think it made him better in 893 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,280 the long run. It was helpful. 894 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,600 I mean it's it's it obviously doesn't hurt your resume some of 895 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,680 and I. Speaking specifically about past 896 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,080 Indiana coaches, but just in general, like there's a lot of 897 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,480 coaches that want to schedule seven or eight wins every season 898 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,080 because that's how they continue to keep their job, right? 899 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,560 I mean, it's job security, right? 900 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,840 Because if you figure you can, the math is if you can get seven 901 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,600 or eight non conference wins and then you can go 500 in your 902 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,800 league or you know, maybe go a little bit over 500, make the 903 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,120 tournament like you're going to continue to keep your job. 904 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,280 It's it's like almost coaching. To not get fired rather than 905 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,240 coaching, like move the program forward. 906 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,720 And so, I mean, you talk about Bob Knight. 907 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,760 Well, by the early 90s, what Bob Knight, he was as secure as any 908 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,080 coach in the country, had won three national championships. 909 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,880 He could schedule whatever if he would have told the fans that we 910 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,240 need to schedule 8 cupcakes. Because this is what I need. 911 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,600 To to make this team its best. Oh, yeah. 912 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,720 Yes, Yes, Sir. Coach will be there to focus 913 00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:47,680 somebody else. Or if he would have said we need 914 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,840 to schedule 10 top 25 opponents and he would have lost half of 915 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,920 them and it would have said this is kind of the process of 916 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,480 building the team, that people would have nodded their head 917 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:55,720 yes. Same thing with Tom Izzo. 918 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,120 He's won a national championship at Michigan State. 919 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,240 He has a long track record of winning games and building 920 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:04,280 programs, making teams better over the course of the season. 921 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,440 So he can do that. I just find it refreshing that 922 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,800 Mike Woodson is like telling people. 923 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,880 What he actually aspires to do rather than trying to like, you 924 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:23,560 know, give us some kind of, you know, I don't know, maybe the 925 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,720 right, the right way to put it, but just kind of trying to 926 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:28,800 obscure the fact that, you know, he wants to to win at a high 927 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,920 level and try to maybe ease his way into things. 928 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,080 I think it's refreshing that that he's willing to schedule 929 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,800 this way. And I agree with you, I mean. 930 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,560 I don't obviously buy season tickets because I have a media 931 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,560 credential, but I hear from I heard from plenty of season 932 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,920 ticket holders in the Green era and different you know, like 933 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,040 we're OK, we're paying for all of these non conference games 934 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,760 and maybe we get one good non conference game and it it was 935 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,480 maybe the ACC or Big 10 challenge or the Gavic games 936 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:03,120 that we had to play and OK, now I'm paying for eight games 937 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,760 against sub 300 teams or sub 200 teams. 938 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,240 Nobody wants to watch that. I mean after a while too from a. 939 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,080 From a podcasting perspective and the media perspective, how 940 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,800 how do you keep talking about the same game over and over 941 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,960 through November and December? So like for this season, from 942 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,800 mid November on, it's pretty intriguing, right? 943 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,800 The rest of the way there's that, there's the games in New 944 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,800 York, there's the early Big 10 games in December, which I think 945 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,880 of kind of helped generate more interest early in the season. 946 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,120 Then you've got the the mid November or mid-december games 947 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,400 against Auburn and Kansas and then right into Big 10. 948 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,440 So there's really no. You know, let's let's dip our 949 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,600 toes in and and see what we are as a team anymore. 950 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,520 With Indiana Basketball, it's we'll play maybe a couple warm 951 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,360 up games and then let's get to it. 952 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,240 It was fun for one or two years, but I mean GAIL and I have both 953 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:51,600 been hammering on this for years. 954 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,200 It's like this. This was the problem with the 955 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,280 Crossroads Classic. It's like it came right in that 956 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,920 area when everyone's scheduling. It's like the Crossroads Classic 957 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,800 was a regional tournament for kind of mid level Indiana teams. 958 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,120 It's like we we elevated that by being in it, but we were in it 959 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,760 way too long. It's like if we want to be a 960 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,400 national, a national power, we got to stop playing Notre Dame 961 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,720 every two years. So I'm, I'm happy we're out of 962 00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:16,240 that. I also think, you know, this is, 963 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,480 I'm just kind of going back and looking like the 2014 season, 964 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,080 just a a random year where it's like that's when Cream should 965 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,120 have had things rocking and rolling and it's like we don't 966 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,480 play anybody in the top 15 in the preseason. 967 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,320 You know, like a best team that year was Syracuse. 968 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,960 We lost on the road and it's like I think that was an ACC Big 969 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,800 10 that was a contractor. That wasn't a game That wasn't. 970 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,120 That's what I'm saying. That wasn't a game they 971 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,280 scheduled, right? And it was and you look like. 972 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,920 What's in Kansas? He's scheduled Arizona. 973 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,520 He's scheduled Auburn. Like, these aren't games that 974 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,840 the Big 10 is saying you have to play well. 975 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,120 And again, it's it's nothing to do with what Scott does, but 976 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,520 it's like last year I went to Vegas, I was excited to do that. 977 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,080 I'm going to New York this year and I think a lot of, you know, 978 00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:59,040 I was in Vegas last year and that was like 80% Indiana fans. 979 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,520 Like there's a ton of IU fans that I remember thinking like 980 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,000 this is awesome. And it also like this is this 981 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,600 should be concerning if you're an Arizona fan because no 982 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,400 question Arizona's been a better program for 15 years. 983 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,040 It's a 45 minute flight. Like, there's no reason we 984 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,880 should have 80% fans in the stadium, but we do. 985 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,440 And it, you know, in an era where fan engagement is going to 986 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,720 be more important, you know with nil and like you just you need 987 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:27,080 to get the fan base more fired up. 988 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,840 You know, this is it. It's such a breath of fresh air 989 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,480 that we're doing this, that we're getting in these 990 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,000 tournaments. People are already, I know, 991 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,240 friends who were already fired up to go to Atlantis. 992 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,160 And again at some point you have to start winning these. 993 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,240 But I do think this is all good. It's better for the team. 994 00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,880 I love the Auburn games. I think that's in the that's in 995 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,880 the Georgia Dome. But this is my buddy Robert 996 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,560 who's a Michigan State fan who has had way more success than I 997 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,200 have in the last couple of years. 998 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,240 But his his big thing which I kind of agree with is always 999 00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:57,560 like he loves when Michigan State plays in one of those 1000 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,200 games in a football stadium at some point during the year which 1001 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,480 they they Michigan State plays they play in aircraft carriers 1002 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,960 they play on the moon. They play underwater like they 1003 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,080 play everywhere. But his thing is like that that 1004 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,480 gets you ready for Elite Eight games. 1005 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:09,880 It's like they're going to be in big arenas. 1006 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,400 Like you get at least A and it's like we're we're following that 1007 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,520 road map, which I like, but I just, I look at this compared to 1008 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:17,600 the one time I'll mention football. 1009 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,880 It's just like, you know the the football program seems to be 1010 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,760 doing everything to antagonize the fan base and not get kind of 1011 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,680 team support and NIL support. It does feel like in basketball 1012 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,160 you're you're creating all these opportunities where you can go 1013 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,720 to events and you can go to games and you're playing high 1014 00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,480 level opponents. You're playing North Carolina at 1015 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:37,880 home. You're playing Kansas at home. 1016 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,160 You know it's like this this is this is what's going to keep the 1017 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,360 fan base engaged and you know help with that NIL dollar thing 1018 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,600 and and it's I it's to me it's the biggest kind of hidden 1019 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,360 secret that Indiana has that I think outside of you and me and 1020 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,200 other fans don't fully know is like we have one of the largest 1021 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:02,160 alumni bases in the in the world or in the US they're very 1022 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,600 engaged in sports and for the longest time there really hasn't 1023 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,400 been outside of the varsity club a way for those fans to kind of 1024 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,040 engage with the team financially. 1025 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,440 And it's like it's there now and you know I I think with nil 1026 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,080 we're going to have a real opportunity to be a bigger 1027 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,800 powerhouse. But you the team has to kind of 1028 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,440 provide that. I I feel like they're doing that 1029 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,040 with the scheduling, giving all these opportunities to go to 1030 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,480 games, have fun experiences. And it's like those create fans 1031 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,440 that want to provide more to the team, which is what you need 1032 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,640 with Nil World. So anyway, let's talk about this 1033 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:36,880 year's team. God, we're going like an hour. 1034 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,640 I mean, so give me like what are your expectations? 1035 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,720 Yeah. What are your expectations for 1036 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,880 for this year's like for this year's team, I'll kind of leave 1037 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,160 it open-ended. Don't don't give me, like, you 1038 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,760 don't need to give me like where we're going to finish, who's 1039 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,920 going to be the starters. But just kind of at a high 1040 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,480 level, like what are you, what are you looking for, excited to 1041 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,440 see with this year's team? Well, I. 1042 00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:01,960 Was asked to vote in the the athletics pre season media poll 1043 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,560 for the Big 10, which the Big 10 doesn't do its own pre season 1044 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,600 media poll. I don't necessarily understand 1045 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,880 why they couldn't just send out a survey and have people vote on 1046 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,720 it, but maybe they don't want her feelings among certain 1047 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,280 school. Yeah, I don't know exactly what. 1048 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:17,800 They're an amateur organization, Alex. 1049 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,080 They're they're not a big they're only making 200 million 1050 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,680 a year in TV money. They can't do that. 1051 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,440 You're too busy investigating Michigan football, right? 1052 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,760 And we'll do nothing about it like that's there's anyway. 1053 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,360 Sorry. So Brendan Quinn of The Athletic 1054 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,720 and Adam Jardi of The Columbus Dispatch send this thing out 1055 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:39,000 every year and they ask us for our full order finish one 1056 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,640 through 14. I picked Indiana 7th. 1057 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,520 I think it was Zach was the other person from Indiana beat 1058 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:47,840 that voted. I think he had him six. 1059 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,520 So we were kind of in that same. Same neighborhood there. 1060 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:59,880 So you know, I picked them 7th. Do I feel like going into the 1061 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,440 season they can finish higher than that? 1062 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,560 I I think the ceiling's probably 3 or 4. 1063 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,400 To me, that's what it feels like. 1064 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,520 But I also feel like there's a scenario where they they can 1065 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,840 finish lower than that if some things don't go right. 1066 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,880 And who knows exactly how things are going to because I really 1067 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,200 looked at it from some of these teams. 1068 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,600 Besides Minnesota, who I believe got drilled in like a early 1069 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,160 secret scrimmage against Colorado State by something like 1070 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,640 30 something, it was like it was, it was like ugly. 1071 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,200 So you don't really see that like the in in in those close 1072 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,120 scrimmages teams getting beat that bad. 1073 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,320 So that kind of hurt me up a little bit and said man they're 1074 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,200 they might be as bad as people think they're going to be. 1075 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:44,720 But beyond that I just don't really look at any of the team. 1076 00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:48,000 I mean maybe Penn State you you look at them and and say. 1077 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,320 They're going to have some struggles, but they did bring in 1078 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,520 a lot of transfers and some good players. 1079 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,000 I I I see it being another year in the Big 10 where the middle 1080 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,200 just kind of, you know, slugs it out and beats each other up. 1081 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,600 And there's going to be a lot of teams that are 8:00 and 12:00 1082 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:10,520 and 9:00 and 11:00 and 10:00 and 10:00 and you know, whatever the 1083 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,040 the the messy middle, whatever we want to call it, that's how 1084 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:14,320 it's going to. I think Indiana is going to be 1085 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,840 involved in that because, you know. 1086 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,120 What we've seen so far under Mike Woodson, while he has been 1087 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,400 able to win some Rd. games, it's been still pretty difficult to 1088 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:30,000 win away from home. And you know, you know, best 1089 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,520 case scenario, I think you win three or four big 10 Rd. games 1090 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,400 in a year if you're having a really good season. 1091 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,760 So that really puts a ton of pressure on you to to protect 1092 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,760 homecourt. And the other thing is just the 1093 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,720 guard depth. I have serious questions. 1094 00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:44,120 I mean, I was writing a player profile this morning for the 1095 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,080 site about Anthony Leal and I'm thinking to myself. 1096 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,440 Is Anthony Leal actually going to have to play this season? 1097 00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:54,560 Because, you know, not not to joke because I've kind of, it's 1098 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,120 kind of befuddled me a little bit why he hasn't gotten more of 1099 00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,680 an opportunity the last couple of years. 1100 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:03,560 When I I saw him in high school, he could make threes and he 1101 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,560 played a little bit Archie's first year and then like the 1102 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,040 last two years, it's been like almost an afterthought to even 1103 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,920 put him in the game. But then I look at the guard 1104 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,600 depth and I'm like, OK, Saber Johnson, Trey Galloway, That's 1105 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,840 pretty good. And then behind there is. 1106 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,520 Gabe Cups, a freshman Jakai Newton who we nobody thinks is 1107 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,240 going to play because he's injured and CJ Gunn, so Anthony 1108 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,160 Leo might you know get so some some some minutes. 1109 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,640 So the back court to me is a little bit of a question mark as 1110 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,640 is the front court to an extent with you know we'll see what 1111 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,360 happens with where. I think he's got a ton of 1112 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:37,800 potential. I think if he plays to his 1113 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,880 capability, I think you could see an Indiana finish, you know 1114 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,160 third or fourth of the Big 10. I think if he doesn't then 1115 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,560 you're putting a lot of pressure on. 1116 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,240 Somebody like Malik Renew and Mackenzie and Baco to provide a 1117 00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,280 lot of square. I mean they you know I I said to 1118 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,400 Xavier Johnson at media day you know I think you guys lost like 1119 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,760 7075% of your scoring from my She just kind of looked at me 1120 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,000 like wow man you have to put it out there like that but it's the 1121 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,640 truth. So you wonder you wonder where 1122 00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:07,720 the scoring is going to come from. 1123 00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:10,200 I I do think was Xavier Johnson back in the line up the the 1124 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,560 defense on the perimeter I you know I think is going to be 1125 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,240 better but I I'm. I'm entering the season with the 1126 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:20,160 expectation that this is a tournament team that's going to 1127 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,800 be in the middle of the of the pack in the Big 10 in terms of, 1128 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,080 you know, somewhere from, you know, I had him 7th, but I could 1129 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,880 see anywhere, you know, from from 3:00 to 9:00 or 10:00 1130 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,480 depending on how things shake out. 1131 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:36,960 And you know, Mike Woodson's talked a lot about wanting to 1132 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,720 win Big 10 championships, but this year I I kind of see. 1133 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,760 Purdue and Michigan State as a cut above the rest of the field 1134 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,160 in the league and it you know Purdue was last year and Indiana 1135 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,400 beat them twice. But look at the overall body of 1136 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,440 work what they were able to do in the regular season. 1137 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,720 They were really good team and they they bring everybody back 1138 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:55,040 in. Michigan State just has so much 1139 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,440 guard depth and you know with Izzo you don't really want to 1140 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,400 bet against him and I thought I think they brought in some 1141 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,800 exciting young players too that'll that'll fit well. 1142 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,000 I think it'll be a team, maybe take some a little bit longer to 1143 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,200 figure it out than Purdue because I think Purdue's just 1144 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:12,080 going to step onto the cord and. Have most of their team back and 1145 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,360 they've got Edie who's going to just be able to the bully people 1146 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,960 from day one. So, but Indiana's right there in 1147 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,840 the mix that there's a lot of Big 10 teams that kind of in 1148 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,560 that same category as Indiana where they they have some, they 1149 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,720 have some key returning pieces. They have some new pieces that 1150 00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:31,320 are going to have to be acclimated to the system. 1151 00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,600 But I think this is probably going to be another year where 1152 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,600 the Big 10 gets you know, 88 teams in the in the big dance. 1153 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,240 I agree with all that. I mean I think no question 1154 00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:41,680 Purdue and Michigan State are cut above and I I agree with 1155 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,240 that kind of the messy middle theory. 1156 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:45,560 And it's like, what's funny is the difference between 3rd and 1157 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,600 9th in the Big 10 this year could be two games like you 1158 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,000 could be looking at. One or two games. 1159 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,560 So it's like, you know, for people to be like, Oh my God, we 1160 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,480 got to, you know, you got to finish top five. 1161 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,000 It's like well, that could be the difference in like, you 1162 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,640 know, a a Boo Booey Bank shot at the end of a game where it's 1163 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,080 like you go from 4th to 9th and it's like that that's what 1164 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,400 you're basing everything off of. I I look at this year, I, 1165 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,640 there's two things kind of at odds here is that I think based 1166 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,880 on this team, based on the how young this team is and the 1167 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,240 growth is going to happen. I do. 1168 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,720 And and based on the scheduling which we just talked about is 1169 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,240 good the negative size. I do think this team will be 1170 00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:24,000 better at the end of the year than the beginning of the year. 1171 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,720 I do worry about them digging a little bit of a hole just as 1172 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:29,880 they learn and as they figure out how to play together. 1173 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,040 Where it's at odds is when you look at the lat, you know, the 1174 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:37,200 first two years of the Woodson era in 2022, you know that team 1175 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:38,800 finished two and seven down the stretch. 1176 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,920 It wasn't, it wasn't until basically the second-half of I 1177 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,560 think that Illinois game or the Michigan game in the Big 10 1178 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,440 tournament where they figured things out and kind of got 1179 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,520 going. Even last year they finished 1180 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,720 three and three, their win, one lose, one the kind of the finish 1181 00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:52,800 the year, you know, win, lose, win, lose. 1182 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,640 That's kind of how it went in the Big 10 tournament and it 1183 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,480 went in the major in the NCAA tournament. 1184 00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,360 So it you know it's only a small sample size that the team is 1185 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,000 basically totally different. But you know when you when you 1186 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,320 just look at historical records, Woodson doesn't have a doesn't 1187 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,960 have that season where it's like you know they start the the Izzo 1188 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,040 kind of thing where it's like they start slow but they figure 1189 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,120 it out as the Big 10 goes on. It's been kind of the opposite. 1190 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,080 That said, I think the way this team is constructed, I think 1191 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,200 it's going to be better as a season goes on. 1192 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,080 And I I mentioned this when we looked at the schedule to start, 1193 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,000 I think there's a stretch that fans need to highlight in on. 1194 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,560 It starts on on January 27th. We're playing at Illinois with 1195 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,120 the from there till February 21st. 1196 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:37,400 So basically at a month we're at Illinois, home to home to Iowa, 1197 00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,640 home to Penn State, at Ohio State home or a way to at 1198 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,240 Purdue, home to Northwestern, home to Nebraska. 1199 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,800 And so you have the road games in that period are Ohio State, 1200 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,640 Purdue and Illinois all within like a 2 1/2 hour range and then 1201 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,720 all the rest are home games. So basically for a month you are 1202 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,680 really basically home. I I know there's three Rd. 1203 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,600 games, but it's like, you know, Rutgers is not Purdue. 1204 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,560 And so I look at that as like that could be a time where the 1205 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,640 team really coalesces. Maybe you lose at Purdue, but 1206 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,800 you could go like six or seven in that period because you 1207 00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,840 basically have a one month home stand with some pretty short Rd. 1208 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,240 trips. I look at that as like that's a 1209 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:18,600 time where I could see this team coalescing, coming together and 1210 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,720 making a run. And then honestly the rest of 1211 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,240 the season, you know you're you're at Penn State, home to 1212 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,720 Wisconsin, at Maryland, at Minnesota, who's off like you 1213 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:28,200 said, he finished at home to Michigan State. 1214 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,280 You could finish that stretch 5:00 and 1:00. 1215 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,920 So I look at that as like that could be the time when this team 1216 00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,480 pulls it together and and kind of changes the narrative. 1217 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,200 But I definitely think, you know, I think this team is going 1218 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,400 to be better and different in February and March than what we 1219 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,360 see, you know against Kansas or against Connecticut in in 1220 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,000 November. Yeah, I think a lot of it's 1221 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,920 going to come down to just how some of the lesser known 1222 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,040 quantities on the team kind of develop as the season goes 1223 00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:59,440 along. Like ACJ gun, right? 1224 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,880 Like it's important for. Indiana to have some every year 1225 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,480 we, I feel like every season we talk about, well, this is one of 1226 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,560 the deepest Indiana teams that I've seen. 1227 00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,480 It's my favorite joke and you get to February and it's like we 1228 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,800 got no one to play. There's like seven or eight 1229 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,360 players that play at that point, right? 1230 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:19,440 Yeah, I I don't necessarily disagree with that tactic 1231 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,280 because I'm I'm kind of the the mindset is like identify your 1232 00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,440 eight best players and play them the most as you can and and let 1233 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:28,840 everything else figure itself out. 1234 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,120 But in this case. Yeah, I just think with the 1235 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,720 guard situation, you have to have somebody else that develops 1236 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,200 behind the two starters because you don't want to play in your 1237 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,080 guards 36 minutes a night because by the end of the season 1238 00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,240 they'll be worn out. And that that's that's a good 1239 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,320 way to to not have a strong finish to the season. 1240 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:54,640 So I mean, I agree with you that there's probably going to be 1241 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,560 some bumps in the road here early in the season. 1242 00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,880 I'm playing UConn in New in New York early this early in the 1243 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,120 season. We'll see how that goes. 1244 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:08,600 That's a game where I feel like Indiana's going to be, you know, 1245 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,560 an underdog going in. But if they come out and are 1246 01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,960 super competitive and and get put up a fight there and have a 1247 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,040 chance to to win that game, I think that would be a notable 1248 01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,080 moment early in the season. The other thing that has me a 1249 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,400 little bit concerned and I know it's not a trend because it's 1250 01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,040 only happened two seasons. But you know I'm a big Ken Palm 1251 01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,520 guy and I I like to look at the numbers and I I don't know if 1252 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,000 you are, but I know Galen is And you look at where India has been 1253 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,440 ranked in the preseason the last two seasons under Woodson. 1254 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,840 I believe they finished eighteen spots lower than what they were 1255 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,360 ranked in the preseason last two years. 1256 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,960 And so I looked at this year's preseason ranking their 49 and 1257 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,080 Ken Palm, if that trend continues that would not be a 1258 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,840 good season finishing. So this like this has got to be 1259 01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,240 the year where they kind of outperform the expectation of of 1260 01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,480 what what are projected to do on Ken Palm. 1261 01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,720 And obviously a lot of that, a lot of of that of what's baked 1262 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:09,640 in is who you have coming back and you know what kind of what 1263 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,560 he's able to pull from a numbers perspective on the guys that 1264 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,360 they brought in the transfer portal and figuring out 1265 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,200 freshmen. But you know I think this season 1266 01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:24,960 Indiana to to Demon to success, they need to to finish. 1267 01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,480 Obviously I don't want to say top half because as you 1268 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,600 mentioned, you know, you could finish it could be teams 4th 1269 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:33,360 through 9th could have the same record of it. 1270 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,600 It's a tiebreaker on the last day of the regular season. 1271 01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,520 But be in that mix in the middle of the Big 10 at at minimum and 1272 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,480 get back to the tournament. And I think at that point you 1273 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,440 say, wow, we've we've made the tournament three years in a row. 1274 01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,520 I mean once you get to the tournament, right, it's all 1275 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,880 about match ups and what happened, you know, any team. 1276 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,960 Can we start with Miami? Last year, I mean Indiana ran 1277 01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:57,840 into the wrong team in Albany, NY because that Miami team was 1278 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,560 you know poised to go on a run. They made the final four. 1279 01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,440 They they knocked off. It wasn't just that they beat 1280 01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,080 Indiana. They then they then they went 1281 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:06,680 and they beat Houston next, right. 1282 01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:08,760 They beat other good teams on the run. 1283 01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,360 You just keep putting yourself in position to be that team and 1284 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:13,560 eventually you're going to breakthrough. 1285 01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,320 But you know if that was the problem, I think going back to 1286 01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,240 you know, with Cream and not to, we don't want to get back to 1287 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:21,280 that. But it was like, all right, he 1288 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,880 had these good years and then he followed up with not being in a 1289 01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,400 tournament. So that was the problem where I 1290 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:28,040 think with Woodson, he's got a chance now. 1291 01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,120 You come out, you come in and you make the tournament three 1292 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,440 straight years. I think that's a pretty strong 1293 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,520 statement. No, I I I agree and I've I've 1294 01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:35,120 made that point before that you know and. 1295 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,000 Obviously at some point you know you're you're going to have to 1296 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,080 breakthrough and make a Sweet 16 and you know at some point we 1297 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:42,640 we'd like to make a final four again. 1298 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,520 I feel like that's something you and I would all I'd I'd love to 1299 01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,600 podcast about a Final four. I know you'd love to talk about 1300 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,960 it inside the hall. I never thought we would be 1301 01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,320 having this kind of drought. That said, you know, I've made 1302 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,640 this point that, you know, last year to me it's like it was a 1303 01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,680 successful year. Like you, you were a protected 1304 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,560 seed in the tournament and. You know, bad. 1305 01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:04,960 I don't want to say bad luck happens. 1306 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:06,320 Like you can't just always chalk it up. 1307 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,800 But it's like sometimes you just get you meet the wrong team at 1308 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,640 the wrong time and it's like Miami was that wrong team. 1309 01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,200 You know, when you go back to the the Final Four run of 2002, 1310 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,400 it's like part of what happened that year and I'm always talking 1311 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,440 my memory, I think, I think we were the five seed. 1312 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,640 And the four seed in that bracket was USC, if memory 1313 01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:22,840 serves right. And they got bounced in the 1314 01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,400 first round and it's like. I'm not saying like you got to 1315 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,360 have luck to get there, but it it it helps. 1316 01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,560 But it's like it's like poker. It's like you're at the table 1317 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,760 enough, you have enough hands, you have the best hand, you're 1318 01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,280 going to start winning some of those. 1319 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,840 And that's been our troubles. We haven't been in protected 1320 01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,920 seed enough times to to be in a good spot. 1321 01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:41,800 We're either not in the tournament, as you said, or 1322 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,480 we're like in that 910, you know, playing spot where it's 1323 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,680 like that's death, where it's like you're you're more than 1324 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,640 likely going to play against A1 or A2 seed and you're going to 1325 01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,920 get thumped. So I I completely agree. 1326 01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,960 It's like that's to me that's the goal this year is you've got 1327 01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,560 to get back in the tournament. It would be great if you were in 1328 01:03:58,560 --> 01:03:59,800 that. I know I just said it's bad like 1329 01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:04,160 in that 678 range and then let the chips fall where they may 1330 01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,040 and then let's get back to protected seed territory the 1331 01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,840 year after. Real quick shameless plug. 1332 01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,400 You mentioned the the Ken Palm stuff, yes, big into Ken Palm, 1333 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,760 love it. I will say we are on sub stack. 1334 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,480 You know if you find a way and you want to support Crimson 1335 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,640 Cast, if sub Stack is free, join us. 1336 01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:22,880 We we send it out there. But we do have a premium section 1337 01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,720 and Galen and I provide premium videos every week for our 1338 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,200 premium subscribers. I will just say that Galen did 1339 01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:34,000 his, I just got it this morning. He did a 10 minute recap on 1340 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:38,000 Indiana and Ken Palm and kind of some of the reasons why we may 1341 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,840 be 49th in Ken Palm, just kind of breaking it down, but you're 1342 01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,680 right, it's not great. That said, I'm kind of stealing 1343 01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,760 from Galen's post, but you know, it's Ken Palm is based and I'm 1344 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,880 not speaking to you, but Ken Palm is based on predictive 1345 01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,680 statistics, so much pulled from last year and there's just so 1346 01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,760 many question marks where it's like we all know Xavier 1347 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,120 Johnson's going to give you, you know, 13-6 and three, but Ken 1348 01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,480 Palm actually doesn't because he doesn't have much of A resume 1349 01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,360 from last year and Ken Palm doesn't go back 3-4 years. 1350 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,000 So it's like Xavier Johnson's kind of a zero in Ken Palm 1351 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,040 numbers. You know where didn't have much 1352 01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,840 there and BACO is a freshman like there's just not a lot of 1353 01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,400 production from Ken Palm to pull from. 1354 01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:23,440 I will say it you know another good site is Bart Torvick which 1355 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,120 is kind of found a way to meld that really you know some of 1356 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:27,720 that predictive stuff a little bit better. 1357 01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,640 They have us 35th which I feel is a little more where we should 1358 01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,520 be, but I'm with you. You know Ken Palm will start to 1359 01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,720 figure itself out by Game 10 or 11. 1360 01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,680 But I'm I'm with you on that that if we're you know ranked 1361 01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,320 49th, 50th in the country if we're 9:00 and 11:00 that's not 1362 01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,400 great but it's still that should still get you in the tournament 1363 01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,640 like that's what's funny is you top 25 kind of matters but it's 1364 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,040 like that's just a protected seed. 1365 01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,200 Like if you're ranked 50th in the country you're probably 1366 01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,360 still going to be a six or a seven seed in the tournament 1367 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:56,920 which is where I think we need to be in. 1368 01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,240 But yeah I I think that's been the problem is we just have so 1369 01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,040 many years where we're not in there and doing it and honestly 1370 01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:05,600 like. The floor of Indiana, if we're 1371 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,800 where we want to be and we're going to be acting as if the 1372 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,280 floor has got to be making the tournament. 1373 01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,120 Like you look at North Carolina, you look at Michigan State N 1374 01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,040 maybe not a great example last year but like Michigan State you 1375 01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:17,080 know. But these teams that just have 1376 01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,320 these runs of like we've made the tournament, you know, 1520 1377 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,120 years in a row or 20 out of 21. It's like Indiana's like at this 1378 01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,120 you know we made it 5 of 11. It's like it's just not good 1379 01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:26,720 enough. We've got it. 1380 01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,440 The floor has got to be making the tournament every year. 1381 01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,560 Yeah, I mean the other thing that you I don't have it pulled 1382 01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,800 up right in front of me, but if you go look at like the Ken Palm 1383 01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:40,640 rankings like by program for each school since that, I think 1384 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,680 it goes back to what 199798. You look at the Big 10 schools. 1385 01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,120 I mean, I think, I think Indiana is middle of the pack when you 1386 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,600 when you look at where where they are in that time frame and 1387 01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:53,920 that kind of jives with the date of what we know. 1388 01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:58,240 India has made one Final Four in the Ken Palm era and that you 1389 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:02,320 know they've had some obviously some seasons where they've won 1390 01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,600 the Big 10 but don't have a lot of tournament success to really 1391 01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,520 fall back on. And the only way you have more 1392 01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,280 tournament success is just keep getting there and and seeing 1393 01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,960 what seeing what happened. I mean the tournament is so 1394 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:17,760 unpredictable. So I mean like going back to 1395 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,080 that year that Indiana made it, would you say like that they 1396 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:21,640 beat Duke, right. Does that mean Duke had a 1397 01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:22,880 terrible season? No. 1398 01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:24,800 They just ran into the wrong team at the wrong time right 1399 01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:28,080 when they ran into Indiana in 2002 at Rupp Arena that it was, 1400 01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:29,200 it was a bad night. It wasn't. 1401 01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,080 I wasn't really taking anything away from Duke season. 1402 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:35,520 I mean, Virginia a couple years ago, loses to AA16 seed, then 1403 01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:37,440 comes back next year, wins the national championship. 1404 01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,240 So it's just. Yeah, and I, you played two 1405 01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,760 double digit seeds to get to the Final Four and it's like, no one 1406 01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,720 is like, well that sucked. It's like that was a Final Four 1407 01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:46,040 run. Like it is what it is. 1408 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:50,120 Yeah, exactly. So you know I I tend to put more 1409 01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:54,240 value on I I know ultimately you're judged on what you do in 1410 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:59,920 the tournament. But if if you're not, I think 1411 01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:02,960 and it's more reasonable to to kind of just judge the program 1412 01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,360 and its trajectory more on what they've done in the the regular 1413 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,480 season and if they're able to continue just to make the 1414 01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:13,000 tournament after after you get there, I think it's largely A 1415 01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,760 largely A crapshoot as to what happens at that point. 1416 01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:19,120 You mentioned Ken Palm, I'll end on this. 1417 01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,640 Just I'm I'm sure you've done this, but if you're if you're a 1418 01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,479 fan out there and you you kind of poked around on Ken Palm a 1419 01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:25,920 little bit. It is. 1420 01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,720 Galen found this first couple years ago, but if you go to the 1421 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,600 Texas Tech page and then you click on Bob Knight you can 1422 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,319 actually get Ken palm stats pre Ken Palm era for Indiana. 1423 01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:38,040 So you can look at like yeah like I'm looking at 9. 1424 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,680 It goes back to 97 for Bob Knight and it's actually kind of 1425 01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,080 wild looking at some of the stats like we were. 1426 01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:50,040 He was top 20 in adjusted offense in 979899 and 2000 and 1427 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,439 honestly like sub 50. Like above 50 in defense. 1428 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,760 That 2000 team was like 15th in offense, 28th in defense. 1429 01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,279 Like the numbers on on night were kind of wild. 1430 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:02,359 Like I didn't realize how good his adjusted offense was in the 1431 01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:04,880 late 90s. But just you, you can't dig in 1432 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:06,279 deeper. But it's like you can get this 1433 01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:10,640 statistical line of Indiana back to 97 in Ken Palm just by going 1434 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,240 through Bob Knight. So the defense wasn't good is 1435 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:14,840 what you're saying those last couple years, right? 1436 01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:19,040 Well, it wasn't good in 9798, but then it got, you know, it 1437 01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:23,520 was 53rd and 99 and then 2000 that team was like the the tempo 1438 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,960 was was getting faster, but that team was 15th in offense and 1439 01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:32,200 28th in in defense. Yeah, I'd love to see like the 1440 01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:37,640 1976 and you know some of those teams in the 80s, early 90s 1441 01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,000 teams like to see the 92 team, what their Ken Palm numbers 1442 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,200 would have. Been I know Ken Palm if you're 1443 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:42,800 listening. Ken, if you're listening like I 1444 01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,240 would pay an extra 10 bucks a year just to have like 1445 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:46,880 historical Ken bomb data. Like it's. 1446 01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:48,920 I think the problem is probably for him. 1447 01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,800 He probably has a hard time finding all of the yeah, the box 1448 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,160 scores and all the data from so far back. 1449 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,760 I'm sure it's available. It's probably expensive too, to 1450 01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:01,240 put all that in somehow, so maybe that's something that'll 1451 01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:02,160 be. On the No, it's fair. 1452 01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,400 You go back and look, it's hard to find box scores, even from 1453 01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:08,000 the early 90s of games. It's such a different landscape. 1454 01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:10,080 That's one reason why it's so great. 1455 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,520 Galen puts all those old games on YouTube, so you can actually 1456 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:14,800 go back and see some of those. I know. 1457 01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:16,400 Well, that's how. How else would you ever see 1458 01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:16,960 that? Stuff. 1459 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,280 I know he has all that stuff, and that's how he and I kind of. 1460 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:23,760 Really bonded as he was one of the few other people when I was 1461 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,760 at IU that I met. And it's like he had tapes of 1462 01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,880 games with Don Fisher over it on radio. 1463 01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,360 And I'm like, dude, I used to do that. 1464 01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,480 Like I would turn off the audio and put on Fisher and it's like 1465 01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,520 it's wild that like I found someone else who did that. 1466 01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,000 And yeah, he had all those tapes. 1467 01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:41,360 Yeah, I know it's it's cool that he's put. 1468 01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:43,960 If you're not on, check out Galen's YouTube channel. 1469 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,440 He has a bunch of old games. He's throwing them on there. 1470 01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,680 And you know, I know we've mentioned this in one of the 1471 01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,320 other pods, but it's like. For for the younger listeners 1472 01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,520 out there who are pissed about having to sign up for Peacock, 1473 01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,760 it's like just there was a world where it's like games were on 1474 01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,360 Ray, Com and Raytheon and it's like it was Channel 4 and you 1475 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,120 didn't get it. And if you didn't live in 1476 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:03,880 Bloomington, you were kind of Sol and watching IU games. 1477 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,480 Yeah, I mean at least, I know it's annoying a little bit to 1478 01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:12,560 have to pay a little bit extra, but I mean 5 bucks a month or 1479 01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,400 whatever it is, it's drop in the bucket. 1480 01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,640 Just cut back on your Pumpkin Spice Lattes from Starbucks and 1481 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,240 your your Peacocks paid for. Dare you. 1482 01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,320 Or you can be an IndyCar fan like me, and you already pay for 1483 01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,600 it. Oh, is that what? 1484 01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,360 What else is? What else is on there? 1485 01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:29,280 Is it like it's just sports wise? 1486 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,080 Big 10, right? Big 10 football. 1487 01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,160 Big 10 basketball. Big 10 football, Big 10 1488 01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,560 basketball, I think Premier League, right, is on there. 1489 01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,800 I'm not a Premier League fan, but I'm a IndyCar fan. 1490 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,320 And so a lot of the races are on there and a lot of them are 1491 01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,840 already on NBC, but you can get like recaps the races. 1492 01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,520 And so I was already part of Peacock and then, you know, like 1493 01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,560 Brooklyn 9/9 and The Office and all the all the NBC shows, 1494 01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,640 obviously. Yeah, good. 1495 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,280 Good stuff. All right Alex. 1496 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:53,720 Well, hey it's this has been great. 1497 01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,960 Let's, let's have you on again at the end of the year hopefully 1498 01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,400 we're we're previewing. A tournament maybe we're 1499 01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:02,480 previewing a couple of Big Ten wins and yeah it's it's it's 1500 01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:03,680 going to be an interesting season. 1501 01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,040 There's just there's a high level of variance. 1502 01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:09,920 It could be one or two games. But I think like, I like I 1503 01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,720 started this whole pod. I I feel very positive about the 1504 01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:17,040 direction we're going. Things still need to happen and 1505 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,880 things still need to be done. But I I think we are definitely 1506 01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:22,960 in the right going the right direction. 1507 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,360 But I think this year is going to be an an important stepping 1508 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:31,320 stone where if we want to get there, you know, you still need 1509 01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,320 probably one or two more recruits. 1510 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:35,680 You've got to hit the portal hard again at the end of the 1511 01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,520 year. But this season has to be a year 1512 01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:42,360 where even though it's a growing year, it can't be no knock on 1513 01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:44,240 that year. But like the the Noah Vonle 1514 01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,480 year, the year after we lost to Syracuse where it's just like 1515 01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:49,680 the the kind of like you're like wow, the wheels are falling off. 1516 01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,120 You're like we can't. Have that again because we 1517 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,280 didn't have the same highs like last year was good, but it 1518 01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:55,600 wasn't. We weren't ranked number one. 1519 01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,560 We didn't, you know, honestly do anything. 1520 01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,400 We just kind of made progressive steps and I think you you have 1521 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,200 to make that next step this year, agree Scott. 1522 01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,920 It's always fun to talk IU basketball with you. 1523 01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,920 You can expect Adm or an e-mail at some point too. 1524 01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:13,760 We're going to have to do a home and home here. 1525 01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:15,320 You have to come on podcast on the Brinks. 1526 01:13:15,480 --> 01:13:17,440 I'd love to. I'd be happy to, Yeah. 1527 01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,560 Anytime. I appreciate it. 1528 01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,000 We'll do that here sometime in the in the near future maybe 1529 01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,600 after a couple games we have some some basketball to actually 1530 01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,000 discuss. But thanks for having me on. 1531 01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,800 It's always as I said ton of respect for for you and Galen 1532 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,920 what you've been able to do with the podcast and always enjoy 1533 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:38,600 listening to your opinions in the show and and like I said 1534 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,000 thanks again for having me on. You're welcome. 1535 01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,680 I I will end with this. Do you have any I I promised I 1536 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,920 wouldn't talk about it but do you have any football comments 1537 01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:46,400 you want to make? You're you're primarily 1538 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,040 basketball site which was smart. You never made the football tab 1539 01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,920 which was a very smart idea. But as an IU fan, oh God, you're 1540 01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,760 like rubbing your temples here. You're already going to happy, I 1541 01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:57,560 can remember. This to say, whatever you want 1542 01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,120 on football. I can remember when Kevin Wilson 1543 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,880 was hired, somebody asked me, are you going to get into 1544 01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:04,280 football? Are you going to start covering 1545 01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:06,320 football? And I said no. 1546 01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,640 And smart. I've I've stuck to that for 1547 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:15,520 what, 16 / 16 years now I've been doing this. 1548 01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,800 I've, I even. There was a time when I would 1549 01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,800 even tweet some football stuff just 'cause I don't watch the 1550 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,080 games like religiously, like if it's on. 1551 01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:27,640 And because my son now he's 13, so he he'll want to watch like 1552 01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,920 we live in Louisville and his mom grew up a little fan. 1553 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,640 So they'll want to watch some of those games and other like what 1554 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:38,520 he calls, you know, the big time games that like he wants to 1555 01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:40,840 watch like the the the top. Like he doesn't want to watch 1556 01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,280 Indiana Ruckers football, which, I mean, I don't blame him. 1557 01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,520 I mean, I don't either watch the Indiana basketball games. 1558 01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,240 So there was a time when I would chime in with my thoughts on 1559 01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:53,280 social media. I just, I don't honestly know 1560 01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:57,920 enough about football to to tell you exactly what's going wrong. 1561 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:02,040 But when you watch it and you watch some of these other teams, 1562 01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:09,400 it's the talent level and the coaching is just not the same at 1563 01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:11,840 Indiana. It is these other Big 10 1564 01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:13,160 programs. I mean, it's as simple as that. 1565 01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:18,960 And I think it's a bigger discussion than just Tom Allen 1566 01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,920 and whatever players are on this Ross right now. 1567 01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:27,360 It's more of an institutional commitment I think to say we 1568 01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,520 have to make this a bigger priority and we're going to use 1569 01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,880 the whatever resources that need to be committed to this to make 1570 01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,320 this work have not been committed to. 1571 01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:39,120 I mean you can give a coach a contract and you can say you're 1572 01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:42,400 going to do these things, but just look around the league and 1573 01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,960 look at watch the other teams play and Indiana is not anywhere 1574 01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,080 close. I mean that's that's just that's 1575 01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,040 just the the reality. It's sobering. 1576 01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:53,560 But I mean, I feel like the other problem that that that 1577 01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,000 they would have even if they did get the right coach, just with 1578 01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,040 how the program's been for such a long period of time, Would you 1579 01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,360 be able ever to keep that person in place, right. 1580 01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,320 Would you like if they. Because if they came in Indiana 1581 01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,440 and won really big for a couple years, they're going to use it 1582 01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:10,360 to go somewhere else because someone's going to look at them 1583 01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:13,080 and say, wow, if they can win in Indiana, they can definitely win 1584 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:14,720 at our school with more resources. 1585 01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:18,040 So and I don't know the financials of all of it and what 1586 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,720 it would take to kind of get it going in the right direction, 1587 01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:23,840 but it's clear that it's it's not working right now and 1588 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,280 obviously I don't cover cover the program so I'm not there in 1589 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,360 a day and day I'll base this. I will say that I've met Tom 1590 01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,040 Allen a couple times at at Huber's during the tailgate 1591 01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,800 tour. He seems like a great, a great 1592 01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:37,080 guy. I know there's a lot of heat on 1593 01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:38,920 him right now. And I would just remind people 1594 01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:43,600 to to remember that he does have family and you know and all that 1595 01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:47,280 and to just you know express your anger however you want to 1596 01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:50,160 express it but try to separate the coach from the person. 1597 01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:55,320 I do think he's a a really stand up guy, but it's clearly from 1598 01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,600 anybody I mean and I can get some texts from friends that are 1599 01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,840 maybe a little bit more doubt into football like did you watch 1600 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,760 the game today? I'm like, no, man, I'm out. 1601 01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:03,320 I'm outside picking up, please, in my yard. 1602 01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:05,320 I got. I got a beside city. 1603 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:09,440 Yeah we call that you football but but it's it's just not, I 1604 01:17:09,440 --> 01:17:11,200 don't know. I mean I'd be interested you 1605 01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:13,360 watch it far more closely than I do. 1606 01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:17,200 But am I am I wrong in saying that it? 1607 01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:24,160 It's a it's more of a commitment to like we have to like really 1608 01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:28,680 revamp this and get the right. It's not just the coach, right. 1609 01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:30,400 There's, there's there's more to it than. 1610 01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:35,840 There is a couple things like First off, as as a podcast that 1611 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,080 does both football and basketball, of you were smart to 1612 01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,880 just focus on basketball cuz A it's more fun, but B like when 1613 01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,560 we look at our numbers like. The football podcast kind of 1614 01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,720 start well then just it's just off a Cliff and then when 1615 01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,440 basketball starts our numbers go back up. 1616 01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:51,000 So and this is the point of the pod that no one's listening so 1617 01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,240 you can say any of your deepest darkest secrets because once 1618 01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:54,760 they hear football everyone's tuned out. 1619 01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:01,760 A couple things you know we we've brought this up before you 1620 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:06,800 know the last I'd say 10 to 12 years IU has really focused on 1621 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,200 providing resources to football. They. 1622 01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:11,000 They finished both the end zones. 1623 01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,960 They've increased the the facilities like they've done a 1624 01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,520 really good job of focusing on football, making the game day 1625 01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,480 experience better, kind of provide and paying coaches and 1626 01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:23,760 assistant coaches more. I think the trouble is they 1627 01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:27,880 basically just advocated doing that from the end of World War 2 1628 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:32,000 to like 2009. So, like from 1945, like for 50 1629 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,400 years, they were just kind of like they they they treated 1630 01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,560 football for the most part, as an afterthought. 1631 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:38,800 And then when Mallory is there, it's like oh that's great we'll 1632 01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,520 we'll we'll be OK in football but we're going to focus on 1633 01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,640 basketball. So I think the trouble is like 1634 01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,520 now they're they're starting to put resources in which is great 1635 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:51,560 but you still have that 50 year deficit where you you've got to 1636 01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,280 play catch up at some point which means you've got to spend 1637 01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,920 more than you know I'm not even talk about Michigan or Ohio 1638 01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:02,000 State but like Minnesota like or Purdue or Purdue. 1639 01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:05,800 Yeah, it's like the the the 40 year gap that you just let them 1640 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,120 lap you like. You're going to have to pay put 1641 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:13,320 double into facility into something more than you know 1642 01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,880 then they do. And I think the trouble Indiana 1643 01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,600 has in football wise now is like the the game has changed again 1644 01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,000 and we're not prepared in that. It's the nil era like we 1645 01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:25,360 mentioned earlier for you know, for basketball and scheduling. 1646 01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,640 But it's like football's got a real existential problem. 1647 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,360 Is like you, you basically haven't had. 1648 01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,280 A a functional program for a while and there's not a lot of 1649 01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:37,960 memories that fans, you know I went to IU during the Cameron 1650 01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:40,200 era. I remember we had game day there 1651 01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:42,480 for Ohio State. We lost like 58 to three or 1652 01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:43,920 something. It's like you know Randall had a 1653 01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:44,920 couple of good plays. I don't. 1654 01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:48,080 I don't have any great memories outside of sitting with Gale and 1655 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,520 drinking and like the I've memories of football that don't 1656 01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:54,280 involve football. Under any period of basketball, 1657 01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:56,920 even if we had you know we we haven't been to a Final Four in 1658 01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,120 a while like you mentioned like there's still two wins against 1659 01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:01,040 Purdue last year. There's I mean back-to-back 1660 01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:03,840 years we beat Purdue. You know even under the Archie 1661 01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,480 era, there's a couple of wins there that that are memorable. 1662 01:20:06,480 --> 01:20:08,320 You know you have in the cream years. 1663 01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:10,840 I mean you're beating Michigan at home for, you know that the 1664 01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:13,560 number one seed in the country like obviously the Watford shot 1665 01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:15,880 like. You can take a 5 year period and 1666 01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:18,600 anybody who went to IU is going to have memories of basketball. 1667 01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:21,120 It's like dude that was fun like that was a really good time. 1668 01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:23,000 I remember this game and that play. 1669 01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,800 I remember she he I remember you know Tom Coverdale like you just 1670 01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,720 you players you remember football hasn't built that up 1671 01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,960 like they just haven't and they they did for like a two year 1672 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,400 window but they've lost a lot of that goodwill now and I think 1673 01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:40,480 that's the trouble is like now they're looking at fans like we 1674 01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:43,760 need nil dollars which they do but it's like you're looking at 1675 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,120 a fan base like you haven't given them anything to be 1676 01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:49,440 excited about for 40 years and now you're asking him to give 1677 01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:51,640 money. I think that's a problem. 1678 01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:55,800 The other thing I would say is I hear what you said a lot of you 1679 01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,600 know if we get a good coach and he's going to get hired away. 1680 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:03,520 I, I, I look at a if I'm IE you like you can't do you can't look 1681 01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:08,120 at that as a problem because my counter to that always is that 1682 01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,480 when that happens it'll be the first time like go back and look 1683 01:21:11,480 --> 01:21:14,240 at our football coaches like they've all been fired or left. 1684 01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:18,200 Like we've never had a coach hired away by a better football 1685 01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:20,480 program. It hasn't happened and the one 1686 01:21:20,480 --> 01:21:23,840 time it felt like it might happen with Alan we got freaked 1687 01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:25,840 out. I still think the contract was 1688 01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,440 right. I still think the extension was 1689 01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:29,440 right at that time. It hasn't. 1690 01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:31,680 Nobody could have expected it would go this wrong. 1691 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:34,760 But it's like that. That's I think where if you're 1692 01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,920 IU, you have to realize that this is where you are in the 1693 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:42,320 pecking order, that yes, if whoever our next coach is, 1694 01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:45,800 whenever that happens, if they have a ton of success, more than 1695 01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:48,040 likely they are going to be hired by somebody else. 1696 01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:50,800 And that has to be viewed as a good thing, not something to be 1697 01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,760 scared of or try and stop it. Because we're just not a 1698 01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:55,920 destination yet. And you have to look at it kind 1699 01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,960 of like, you know Michigan State football where it's like they 1700 01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:02,640 had Saban he left that they got to a point where they are now 1701 01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:06,680 somewhat of a destination. I I don't know I I look at it as 1702 01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:09,200 like it's just like you've got to you've got to start making 1703 01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:11,800 some right decisions. You've got to kind of play catch 1704 01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,360 up. But I still look at it in a 1705 01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:17,520 positive way in that you know you're you're still like I 1706 01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,400 talked to my dad about this all the time. 1707 01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:20,600 He's like who would want to coach here. 1708 01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,920 It's like well any coach who's not in the Big 10 of the SEC 1709 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:25,680 should want to coach here because we should be able to we 1710 01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,960 should be able to pay more than anybody else out of those out of 1711 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:30,920 those two. So it's like there's 40 schools 1712 01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:34,440 that we we can't hire from, but there's a, you know, 300 other 1713 01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:36,360 schools, like all those coaches want to come here. 1714 01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:38,920 And that's The thing is like if you're coaching at, you know, 1715 01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:42,960 Colorado State or Washington State or you know, Ball State, 1716 01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:44,760 I'm not picking on schools. It's like you're coaching at any 1717 01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:48,320 school, if not in the Big 10 or the SEC, you want to coach here 1718 01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,440 because there's only 40 jobs like that and Indiana is one of 1719 01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:52,600 those. It's not the best, but it's 1720 01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,960 going to pay more than any of those who are damn well better 1721 01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,200 if IU wants to compete. So I don't know, that's a lot of 1722 01:22:58,200 --> 01:22:59,960 ranting on on a couple of points there. 1723 01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,720 I think that I think that nil two is like a huge problem not 1724 01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,440 going forward for Indiana football, because I think most 1725 01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:11,920 people that want to give nil money are going to give to 1726 01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,320 basketball. Want to go to basketball, right? 1727 01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:20,080 And not only do you need more, more dudes in football, you need 1728 01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:22,640 way more. I mean, look at the size of the 1729 01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:25,800 roster that you're going to have to develop the depth and have 1730 01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:27,560 the. Amount of players to be able to 1731 01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:31,400 compete and it's only gonna get tougher with when they're 1732 01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:33,880 bringing in UCLA, USC, Oregon and Washington. 1733 01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,520 I mean these are all, it's not like they're bringing in any 1734 01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,160 programs that are even close to Indiana's level. 1735 01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:41,680 I mean their their Indiana's now falling down even further in the 1736 01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:44,960 pecking order and and football's almost more of a collective. 1737 01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,560 Like you need just that collective fan base cuz like at 1738 01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,880 least in basketball it's like and I've not given to NILI think 1739 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,440 it's great the players get it. I just it's not something that 1740 01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:56,120 I've dove into deep yet. But it's like if you're if 1741 01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:57,600 you're a donor, it's like, all right, I'm going to you know, 1742 01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:59,520 pick. I'm just, I will not say that 1743 01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,200 like pick a basketball player. It's like I'm going to give him 1744 01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:03,600 $25,000. And it's like you can do that in 1745 01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,480 basketball because you can kind of pick that it's in football 1746 01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,280 you need money for like the offensive lineman who you don't 1747 01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:13,320 know their name but it's like you need to somehow get them 20, 1748 01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:15,400 thirty $40,000. Not a lot of donors who want to 1749 01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:16,960 do that. So you need a collective, and 1750 01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:21,320 for a collective you need kind of that like inertia of years of 1751 01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:22,960 being excited and willing to give. 1752 01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:26,480 And I think you're 100% right. I I think this is where it 1753 01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:29,320 actually helps basketball and hurts football even more nil. 1754 01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:32,120 Because basketball is kind of like it unlocks people being 1755 01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:34,480 like, yeah, I love basketball. I want it like, you know there's 1756 01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:37,440 there's a small group of fans who like, I wish I you was 1757 01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:40,080 paying players back in the day. It's like, well, now you can and 1758 01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:43,080 now it's unlocked and now we can play the same game Kentucky and 1759 01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:44,800 Kansas did in our in in our mind. 1760 01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,400 But I I just don't think it's there for football. 1761 01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:52,160 And it's like I as a fan, I'm like, I don't trust anything 1762 01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:55,160 football's done in the last 20-30 forty years. 1763 01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,920 To just say, hey, here's 20 grand a year to figure it out. 1764 01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,400 It's like I don't trust them. But you you need to have that 1765 01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,800 trust. And I don't also don't think 1766 01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,880 it's the best environment right now to be asking people to 1767 01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:07,400 donate. And I owe money to football 1768 01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,440 right when your team is not performing. 1769 01:25:10,440 --> 01:25:14,720 I mean people, a lot of people with the money that could 1770 01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,960 actually make a difference will probably respond with. 1771 01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:22,320 Maybe get a change in the coach or get somebody else in here and 1772 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,920 get trying to shift the public perception of the momentum of 1773 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,880 the program and then I'd be willing to do something. 1774 01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,480 But like right now it just feels like it's kind of a hopeful 1775 01:25:30,480 --> 01:25:32,600 situation. I mean, I've just read some of 1776 01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,560 the things that that Zach's written and a couple of the 1777 01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,280 other people in the media and it's just like there's you can 1778 01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:41,520 only. Sugarcoat it for so long and it 1779 01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:45,040 sometimes it at some point it just kind of is what it is and 1780 01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,280 it it doesn't look like it's going to turn around anytime 1781 01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:48,920 soon. I made this as one of our pre 1782 01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:50,600 this is a couple weeks ago. I made it as one of our premium 1783 01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,160 sub stack videos but I'll I'll let you know now like this is 1784 01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:56,160 all tongue in cheek and on a funny joke a total tongue in 1785 01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:58,120 cheek. But I've joked like this is the 1786 01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,520 problem. Indiana athletics has like to me 1787 01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:05,160 the solution is please this is total joke. 1788 01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:10,200 It's like you need to find a way to unlock money for football, 1789 01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:12,200 but it's all going to basketball. 1790 01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:15,160 So my thing is like you just, you hire Brad Stevens as your 1791 01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:17,680 football coach and it's like that's where you unlock all the 1792 01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:19,160 money. And then it's like, hey, Woody, 1793 01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:20,800 you're good for the next six year. 1794 01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:22,760 Whatever. You pick a year because he's 63 1795 01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,440 and it's like, I I honestly, I'm, I'm joking, but I'm kind of 1796 01:26:26,440 --> 01:26:28,480 half serious. And I think if you know, 'cause 1797 01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,840 when Archie was fired, it's like there was like, boom, $10 1798 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,120 million for Stevens. So it's like immediately 1799 01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:36,280 available. I I do think there's people 1800 01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:39,800 who'd be like, hey, man, I would gladly pay 10 million right now 1801 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:41,480 to get Brad Stevens in six years. 1802 01:26:41,480 --> 01:26:44,000 And again, you're not pushing what's again all joke, but it's 1803 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:45,640 like there's a world where you do that. 1804 01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:47,720 And then it's like there's also this alternate world where it's 1805 01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,400 like, I mean Stevens is a good coach. 1806 01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:52,600 I know it's been basketball. But like he knows how to run 1807 01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,080 organizations. Like maybe he gets the football 1808 01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:56,480 Tove girl. Then you get this weird spot 1809 01:26:56,480 --> 01:26:58,240 where it's like, I don't know, man, maybe we keep around on the 1810 01:26:58,240 --> 01:26:59,840 football side. Like we hire a different 1811 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:01,800 football, we hire a different basketball coach. 1812 01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:03,760 And I was just, it was a thought I had. 1813 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:04,960 I did a whole like 10 minute let me. 1814 01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:07,400 Ask you this, I know we've been on a little long, so that's 1815 01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,680 that's to wrap up, but who? Who would they like? 1816 01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:14,840 What would be like a successful hire for IU to somebody that can 1817 01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:17,560 consistently like, go six and six and make a bowl game? 1818 01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,280 Yeah, I think so. I mean I think the thing that 1819 01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:23,640 we've looked at on Crimson cast that we've talked about in the 1820 01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:29,160 past is you know where where I use had struggles is when you 1821 01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,640 hire somebody who is a coordinator or doesn't have head 1822 01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,520 coaching experience and is trying to learn it on the job. 1823 01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:37,840 And that's a in football. It is just it's different than 1824 01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:41,640 basketball in that like the head coach in football and I think 1825 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,080 you've seen giving Tom Allen the benefit of the doubt. 1826 01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,280 You know he's the trouble he's had is where he's like I'm good 1827 01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:48,560 at defense. So I'm going to continue to 1828 01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:50,120 coach defense while being a head coach. 1829 01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,720 And like you see this all the time like Kevin Wilson had. 1830 01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:54,880 He came in and kind of had his hands too much in offense. 1831 01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:57,840 And it's like in football being the head coach is like that's a 1832 01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,000 just it's a manager job. Like you are in charge of a 1833 01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,560 program, which I know is kind of like a no dumb moment, but it's 1834 01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:06,800 like it's true And there's always a learning curve of 1835 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,320 assistance taking like one or two years in football to kind of 1836 01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,760 figure that out. When you look at when we've had 1837 01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:16,120 success, whether it's Mallory or Hepner, it's guys who had head 1838 01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:19,240 coaching experience at a lower level and then was able to kind 1839 01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:24,120 of plug that in right here. So I'm, I think that's what 1840 01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,840 you'd want to do. But you know it doesn't always 1841 01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:30,040 work like I, you know analogizing it back to 1842 01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,000 basketball. Like I I know we've been on too 1843 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:33,120 long don't want to get into Archie. 1844 01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:36,160 But it's like that's the thing with Archie that never I find it 1845 01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:37,920 fascinating. I don't want to learn more about 1846 01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:39,520 it. It's like everything about 1847 01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:42,160 Archie should have worked like he has a defensive mentality. 1848 01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,960 His guys played really hard. He was a great coach at a mid 1849 01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:46,880 major. It's like just give the guy more 1850 01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:48,680 resources and you are off to the races. 1851 01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:50,440 But yet you see it time and time again. 1852 01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:54,120 Sometimes mid major coaches it works and sometimes it doesn't 1853 01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:58,720 and I've I've been fascinated with that in basketball because 1854 01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:03,560 Archie didn't work but at the time he like he was the best 1855 01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:07,080 coach available and all signs pointed to it should work and I 1856 01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,840 still don't quite know why it didn't but it didn't but I mean 1857 01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:14,920 that's in in my mind in football like that's take one variable 1858 01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:17,680 out take the variable of a guy having to learn how to be a 1859 01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:21,480 coach head coach out and just now try and figure out which mid 1860 01:29:21,480 --> 01:29:23,560 major coach is going to give you the best shot. 1861 01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:26,840 And like I said, again, go into it knowing that in three years, 1862 01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:30,080 if they're successful, they're going to leave and that's great. 1863 01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:34,160 And then just do it again. Well said. 1864 01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,920 Now go do it anyway. Alex, check them out inside the 1865 01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:40,680 hall. It's been an absolute honor. 1866 01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,440 I love having you on. I love your insights. 1867 01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:44,560 And for everybody out there, thank you for sticking on 1868 01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:46,240 through football talk and everything else. 1869 01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:48,800 Appreciate you listening for Crimson Cast. 1870 01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:50,200 This is Scott signing off.