1 00:00:06,700 --> 00:00:09,900 You're listening to the back home network presented by home 2 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:21,000 field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cascade. 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,200 When caviar joining you, it is the 11th of April. 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:29,800 Hope you're all doing well as we head into the second third of. 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,900 Of April hard to believe. It's already 1/3 over at this 6 00:00:32,900 --> 00:00:38,800 point and we're still waiting for some resolution on some 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,100 things with IU basketball. Certainly IU football going 8 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:44,000 through some spring, practice items. 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,700 And some interesting things going on there. 10 00:00:46,100 --> 00:00:50,000 Are you women's basketball has had quite a last week as they 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,800 pick up what looked to be. Some impact transfers pulling in 12 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:56,400 some really high quality players. 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,800 One from Oregon. One from Minnesota, one from 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,500 Providence. And so Terry Moore and her crew 15 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:04,900 really starting to reload as they head into the 20, 22 23 16 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:06,200 season. So we'll keep an eye on what 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,700 happens with that roster and certainly will have more to talk 18 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:14,000 about with all three of these Sports as we move forward today. 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,600 Me and Scott get together and talk about some of the pressing 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,500 issues with IU, basketball Scott, had some questions. 21 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:23,700 I had some answers, we talked about. 22 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:28,300 Oh, a little bit of everything in terms of how to perceive this 23 00:01:28,300 --> 00:01:31,100 IU team and what to think about In terms of the recruits coming 24 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:34,600 in and try to give everybody a little bit of a reality, check 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,000 in terms of what to expect and perhaps what, not to get your 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,200 hopes up on. We also talk a little bit about 27 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,800 Purdue as much as I'm loathe to do that. 28 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:47,300 We needed to chat about what happened to them in the NCAA 29 00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:50,500 tournament and what it means in terms of their overall Legacy. 30 00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:52,500 So we'll get to that as well here in a little bit. 31 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:54,900 Before we do that. Just to reminder, that Crimson 32 00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:56,900 cast is part of the back home network and the presenting 33 00:01:56,900 --> 00:01:59,800 sponsor, the back home network is home field apparently. 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,900 Your place to go for the finest in vintage Collegiate, apparel, 35 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,900 comfy, stuff stuff that you want to wear all over the place all 36 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:13,000 the time and they continue to come up with just Dynamite 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:18,300 designs and products. 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Home field apparel.com, if you 46 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:51,400 use the code home H ome get a discount on your first order. 47 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:52,800 So be sure to head over to home field. 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,000 Apparel.com check out what they've got. 49 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:56,800 Follow them on social media as well. 50 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,800 They are certainly one of the best sports. 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,200 Peril related follows in the entirety of the twitterverse. 52 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,900 So if you're not following them, you're missing out. 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,400 Anyway, let's go ahead and get to our conversation and just a 54 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,100 reminder, folks, that you can always find Crimson cast by 55 00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:17,600 following us on Twitter, but also subscribe on. 56 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,300 ITunes, subscribe on Spotify if that's your thing. 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,100 And that way the episodes get delivered right to your phone or 58 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:29,800 wherever you listen to them. All right, we've got Scott, 59 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,700 we've got Galen. We've got the original Crimson 60 00:03:32,700 --> 00:03:35,400 cast, Voltron up and running today. 61 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,000 Scott. How was vacation? 62 00:03:37,900 --> 00:03:38,900 Voltron? That's awesome. 63 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,400 It was good. We had a good time out in the 64 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:43,800 cabins. It was funny as I was driving 65 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,200 down there. We went to a cabin last year 66 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,300 around this time. I thought what a world, what a 67 00:03:48,308 --> 00:03:50,500 difference a year, makes because remember, driving back last year 68 00:03:50,508 --> 00:03:53,100 and it's like, we got the fights news where the Woodson news. 69 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:55,000 I can listen to all these podcasts about how great things 70 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,700 are going to be. And then now it's We're driving 71 00:03:57,700 --> 00:03:59,800 back. Its I got five news. 72 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,200 Got the Vada news, like a lot of the same same names. 73 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,000 Different different stories and little bit different. 74 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,800 We know the vacation was nice, good time to get out and it's 75 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:10,800 always my favorite trip of the year. 76 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,400 Just getting it. Had cabin out in the woods and 77 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,400 just enjoying enjoying time with the family and the dog few 78 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,000 things illustrate the difference between Scott and me more than 79 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,899 our ideal weekend. His involves being in a cabin in 80 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:25,300 the woods. Mine involves being in a beach 81 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:27,800 setting as much as humanly. Only possible. 82 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,100 So that's okay. Like meet you, too. 83 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,000 I like it. All Scott doesn't discriminate. 84 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,200 He just doesn't want to be home. Ultimately. 85 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:38,500 So, so Scott's a lots of stuff going on as you just alluded to 86 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:42,100 with IU basketball and we wanted to dive in and talk about some 87 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:43,500 of it. We still have a lot of 88 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:44,900 questions. We need to get to from the folks 89 00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:46,900 out there on Twitter. We're not going to tackle much 90 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:49,300 of that today. But what would you like to talk 91 00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:50,800 about? You've been kind of out of the 92 00:04:50,808 --> 00:04:53,700 action here for a little bit, and there's a lot to catch up 93 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:55,300 on. So, where should we begin? 94 00:04:56,300 --> 00:04:59,700 I know it's tough with a group of Bloomington and MCCS. 95 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:02,300 See much like I, you always has spring break the first week of 96 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:03,800 the tournament. So I always got like that 97 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,500 Thursday, Friday off school, which is great. 98 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,200 Now, you know, with my wife school and here in Westfield, 99 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:12,000 the spring break is always late. So we're always gone look right 100 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,800 at the, you know, we missed the, the final four and all that. 101 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,700 It's like, I'm always now gone when it seems like this, this 102 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:21,300 news, dumped of things, you know, and it's bad, because I 103 00:05:21,308 --> 00:05:23,100 feel like things have already kind of had their psycho. 104 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:25,200 Everyone's had the five takes, the reverse takes, and it's 105 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,500 like, we're back. Normal, you know in the end. 106 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:30,900 I've kind of come down to this. Like none of this matters if we 107 00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:33,700 win games like last offseason. We won the offseason for the 108 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:35,100 most part. So hey, we got would soon, we 109 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:37,100 got five forgot model. Like we're all talk ourselves 110 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:39,000 into it and none of that really mattered. 111 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,600 Well, Ron Harper jr. Was, you know, dropping his 112 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,300 proverbial balls on the floor and Assembly Hall? 113 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:46,400 No one was like, oh, but remember how great things were 114 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,700 last April and none of this is gonna matter here. 115 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:51,300 If we win games we make it as a nine seed in the tournament next 116 00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:53,000 year. No one's gonna be like, oh man. 117 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,100 I wish we'd done this with fight or with Mota. 118 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,100 That said, the order of operations doesn't look good. 119 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,100 It definitely feels like, Woodson is fully in charge, 120 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:05,800 which he probably should have been, you know, that's the funny 121 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,200 thing that people forget about, you know, Woodson got hired. 122 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,900 He didn't get to name two of his assistants or the director of 123 00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:13,300 basketball operations. Just kind of bizarre for head 124 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:15,800 coach to not have that much say in who he gets. 125 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:20,200 But, you know, in totality a lot of not ideal news, but again, I 126 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,200 think winning cures all. But my question for you on this 127 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:27,600 that I haven't fully gotten is, You know, assistant coaches come 128 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,000 and go. So the idea that like, you know, 129 00:06:29,008 --> 00:06:32,100 just just a dangerous, a assistant getting fired is not 130 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:34,900 the end of the world. I'm curious for AI. 131 00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,800 You guy who came in just a year ago and again, like an IU guy 132 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,500 with a lot of IU history. Why did it feel like again from 133 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:43,800 my perspective just felt like he was kind of Done Dirty on the 134 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,100 way out. Like, it felt like it was kind 135 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:48,700 of a lot of like those articles being lined up or it's like all 136 00:06:48,707 --> 00:06:50,000 right. Now we can kind of Russell 137 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,600 Wilson, left Seattle's like everyone had a, had a hit piece 138 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,500 ready to go. It felt like five, kind of got 139 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:57,600 kicked on the way out the door. Or where maybe he shouldn't have 140 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:58,000 been. I don't know. 141 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:58,800 That. That was my take. 142 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,400 I'm curious your thoughts on why? 143 00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:02,500 It didn't feel like it was more like, hey, Dane, fives. 144 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:04,000 A great guy. Just didn't work out here at 145 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,100 felt like a little more like no. No, we fired him. 146 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:08,000 And here's a couple hit pieces from pigs. 147 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,300 Well and other spots too, I mean, look, I think and 148 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,800 understand folks that, you know, and what I do for a living. 149 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,200 I look at the stuff all the time. 150 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,600 Analytically. And look, this happened when, 151 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:27,100 you know, when Terry Francona got fired by the Red Sox, it got 152 00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:28,500 it happened. Like you said, with Russell 153 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:32,700 Wilson, happens all the time. And I think a lot of the 154 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:38,400 reactionary pieces about Fife leaving on both sides were 155 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:41,500 Overdone. I think that there's always a 156 00:07:41,508 --> 00:07:47,300 desire on the part of the people in and around a given program, 157 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:51,700 who are there to put themselves in a position where they don't 158 00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:55,700 look like the bad people by doing X, Y or Z. 159 00:07:55,700 --> 00:08:00,200 And you know, I think that with with someone like five, there 160 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,900 was a real concern that people would be up in arms about him, 161 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,600 essentially getting fired. Unless there was some reason 162 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,100 That was given or reasons given that would justify it in the 163 00:08:12,100 --> 00:08:13,700 eyes of. And even then, I mean, you know, 164 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:18,400 certainly we saw and heard the chatter on Sports, Talk Radio 165 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,300 and on message boards, people really didn't like that. 166 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:24,200 And so a lot of that stuff is damage control. 167 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:27,600 Yes, it's unfair. I think they're even when there 168 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,300 are grains of Truth in it. I mean, as you mentioned 169 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,299 assistance, leave all the time players, leave all the time and 170 00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:36,500 you don't normally see those sorts of things coming out. 171 00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:41,299 But the flip side of it is it's kind of The nature to I think on 172 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:44,400 both sides of the equation. Make yourself look as good as 173 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,400 possible while making the person that that's leaving. 174 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,300 Or that did you wrong or whatever. 175 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:56,700 Look bad in in retrospect. And so that's to me, it's not 176 00:08:56,700 --> 00:08:58,000 great. It's unfortunate. 177 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,200 But I think a lot of it, whatever the root cause, and 178 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,800 whatever was true and whatever is false. 179 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,100 I think ultimately, there was just a personality conflict 180 00:09:07,100 --> 00:09:10,200 there that spilled over into some other are areas that. 181 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,800 And I don't think that in this era of social media coverage 182 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:18,500 where everything is so immediate and it's really out there to get 183 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:20,800 people fired up. I don't know how much people 184 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,900 really need to get too into the Weeds on that. 185 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:27,200 It's part of this larger soap. Opera that takes place with 186 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,800 sports in general, and IU basketball, in particular. 187 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,600 And ultimately, I don't know that it does anybody a lot of 188 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,700 good unless you're on the inside and we're part of the dealings. 189 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:40,200 It really doesn't affect. The program that much. 190 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,700 I think, I don't think it necessarily affects the way that 191 00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:46,700 you as a fan are experiencing the program or at least it 192 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:48,500 doesn't have to. Yeah. 193 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:51,400 No, that's kind of been a joke. I've said, it's like, we're 194 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,800 starting to debate, like, what's good and bad about our third and 195 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,700 fourth assistance. Like, we're Deep In The Weeds. 196 00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:57,600 Like it's, I don't look at guns at me. 197 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,700 I'm a peripheral fan of Gonzaga. Like, I know, Mark Few is their 198 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:02,500 coach. I don't, I couldn't tell you who 199 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:04,200 their third assistant is, and it doesn't matter. 200 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,400 And like if there's if you told me that their decision and got 201 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,600 fired at Gonzaga next year, going into next. 202 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,300 As much, okay. I still think you'll be pretty 203 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:13,000 good. But so I it's none of this stuff 204 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,600 really matters that much. So yeah, that's that's where we 205 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,400 are today now. Yeah, it's it's tough and I feel 206 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,700 I'm glad things have subsided a bit and, you know, particularly 207 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:28,400 if the rumors are true that the Dane five kind of land on Thad, 208 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Matta staff and Butler. I think that's a great landing 209 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,100 spot for him. And I think he would do really 210 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:37,200 well in that role. And I think that the assistant 211 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,700 coach set up that, Indiana. Seems to have it looks like 212 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:41,600 Woodson's comfortable with that moving into this year. 213 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,400 And I think that's great. And ultimately, I think that's 214 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,100 the something that we can put behind us. 215 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,300 Now that March is gone and we've turned the page into April, at 216 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:54,200 least, I hope so. Because as you say, you know, 217 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,200 part of the problem with the lack of success for IU is, we 218 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,200 end up getting caught in these sorts of conversations, and 219 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,200 these sorts of arguments. And it's, it doesn't matter, 220 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,300 like nothing that it gets said, or reported at the level that 221 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:10,300 it's Then I think really ends up resonating. 222 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:13,800 It just ends up exacerbating, an already difficult situation 223 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,400 among fans and with fans perception of the program. 224 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,500 Yeah, and then men and we're kind of we're recording this on 225 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,000 Friday April 8th that we're kind of in a flux spot because we 226 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,500 still, we've had the people, you know transferring. 227 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:34,200 I went to see my dad right after like Michael dirr announced and 228 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,100 we were just kind of talking about basketball and he's like, 229 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,500 he was like a hundred percent sure that tomorrow Bates had. 230 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,700 His name into the portal. Like, no, he hasn't. 231 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,600 Well, no, he hasn't like it's like no, like it was like this 232 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,200 back and forth, but we were still waiting to hear about 233 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,100 Trace, Jackson, Davis, and race Thompson. 234 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:52,800 I think those are kind of the big dominoes to fall on the 235 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,800 transfer side of where you know, I think our team's going to 236 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,500 really depend on whether their back or not what direction our 237 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:01,500 team goes. I don't know, you know a lot of 238 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:05,500 people I've gotten really hung up one way or another on the 239 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,100 race and Trace thing. And, you know, some people have 240 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:09,800 convinced themselves as like, well, we're not going to be 241 00:12:09,808 --> 00:12:12,200 good, unless they're both back or at least one of them is back. 242 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,000 Some people have convinced themselves that both of them 243 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,000 need to leave and that you just need to hand the starting 244 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,600 position at least at the for, I guess, over to Jordan Geronimo. 245 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,500 And then, like hope that you've got a solution at the five. 246 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:29,800 Look, here's the thing. I think that it's easy to get 247 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:35,900 tied up in thinking that there's Going to be a an ideal 248 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:39,700 circumstance, by which the roster will take shape and that 249 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,100 we don't really know. I mean, we went in the last 250 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:45,900 year, you know, Xavier Johnson was on the roster, but I don't 251 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:48,100 know how many people really looked at that guy and said that 252 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:49,800 guy is going to be our starting point guard. 253 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,300 Most people assumed it was going to be robbed fennessy and that's 254 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:55,900 just not how the the year when at all a lot of people went into 255 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:59,600 last year thinking, that, that Tamar Bates was going to be a 256 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,800 major player in terms of Minutes and points and so forth and that 257 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,100 just never materialized. Meanwhile, I don't know that 258 00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:09,100 many people were looking at Jordan Geronimo and saying that, 259 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:11,900 that guy's going to make a huge impact down the road, and he 260 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:13,800 ended up making a really big impact. 261 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:19,100 So, as you, and I talked about many times it just, it's 262 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:22,400 speculation is fun. But it really means nothing at 263 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,400 the end of the day. Because not only do you have the 264 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,100 uncertainties of how players are going to play with each other. 265 00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:30,300 You also have the uncertainty of who's going to actually get 266 00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:32,900 better in the offseason. You know, my favorite on this is 267 00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:37,100 Ways, you know that that summer and fall leading into what ended 268 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:39,000 up being Mike Davis, is interim year. 269 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,400 As people were thinking about, who was going to be playing 270 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,700 Major minutes and making a big impact. 271 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:46,800 Nobody was saying, hey, you know, Tom Coverdale, that's the 272 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,500 guy that's going to solidify his hold on the point guard position 273 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,100 and really become an everyday starter. 274 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:57,600 I mean that Tom barely played his first two years and that, 275 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,200 that kind of thing happens pretty regularly, you know, as 276 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,400 much as Victor Oladipo was a relation is sophomore and Junior 277 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,100 years. There were a lot of things that 278 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:08,300 happened is freshman year where you were like, well, maybe he'll 279 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,200 round into something of an athlete, but he probably won't 280 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,700 be. He certainly won't be scoring 281 00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,400 double figures or anything like that and how wrong we were. 282 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,600 So, look the I think it's an along along those lines. 283 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,900 I'll hop in one of those lines. I think it's, I listened to your 284 00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,700 pod with Father, James Antonio's Rania, the, the Hoosier hotline 285 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,800 guys. And they went into this little 286 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,500 bit of assembly call. I've heard this before and it is 287 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,100 funny. We He's starting to see this for 288 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:37,600 people are kind of looking at the lineup next year and it's 289 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,000 like, oh we already have, you know, you got to have Drake out 290 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Roy Galloway and you can has Avery Johnson and like you're 291 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,300 going to, you know, put your fee nose coming in. 292 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:46,000 It's like, all of a sudden we already don't have enough 293 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,900 minutes. Are the guys that we have. 294 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:50,200 It's like that. That's your point. 295 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,800 Exactly. As not, the way it works. 296 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,900 And I've heard the talk of like, you know, well, gosh next year, 297 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:56,700 you know how you two split minutes, but he between hoods 298 00:14:56,700 --> 00:14:58,700 Ruffino and Xavier Johnson, like, you know, you're gonna 299 00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:01,200 have to give Hood At least, you know, 20, 25 minutes. 300 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,200 And it's like, I've always all the guys that point guard that I 301 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,400 know on the roster, including our freshman, who can play at a 302 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,500 high level, with in the Big Ten. I got one name. 303 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,700 His name is Xavier Johnson's, but I know that guy can do it. 304 00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:18,800 And and this freshman thing is always, it's always kind of, you 305 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,000 know, my I got two Hills to die on the talk about this pod, but 306 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,500 one is like, the, let's just not expect too much or freshman. 307 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,100 I kind of looked at UV. Take Xavier Johnson. 308 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,000 Give me a second to get to my point. 309 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,200 If you take a look Xavier Johnson's year this year, does 310 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,200 he have? 12 points of 12 points. 311 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,100 A game offensive rating, 102 and the usage rate of 66 and we made 312 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:41,500 the NCAA tournament. So you say, all right. 313 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,000 I need a freshman over the last 20 years who's had that 314 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,400 Baseline. So averaging 12 or more points. 315 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,500 Having an offensive rating will call it a hundred or over with a 316 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:54,700 usage rate of over 65 and the team made the tournament in the 317 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:57,500 last 20 years. You'll how many freshmen have 318 00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:02,800 met that bar for for Indiana for Indiana to? 319 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,900 To it was more. I thought I thought it was too 320 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:07,300 as well. It's actually for, okay. 321 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,100 Let me see if I can guess them. Yeah, Cody, Zeller. 322 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:16,200 Yes, Eric Gordon. Yes, Yogi Ferrell. 323 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:24,100 Nope, James Blackman jr. Yes, and then Trace Jackson 324 00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:26,800 Davis. No interesting. 325 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,800 Gracie. Gracie, right, Christie, right? 326 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:29,600 Wow. Okay. 327 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,300 Yeah. So so if you look at it based on 328 00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:34,100 points per game. You know, are coordinates like 329 00:16:34,108 --> 00:16:37,200 an outlier 20 points. A game offensive rating, 110. 330 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,100 They made the tournament Romeo Langford had a good freshman 331 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,900 year, but they did not make the tournament Bracey, right? 332 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:45,800 They were a 7c that year, James backs in junior. 333 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,000 They were attend seed. Cody, Zeller. 334 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,600 They were four seed and then TJ D &, DJ white also had 335 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,700 statistically, they be better years and Xavier Johnson, but 336 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:53,900 they did not make the tournament. 337 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:57,600 So kind of a weird setup there, but it's like, you look at next 338 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,100 year making the tournament should be the goal. 339 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,700 So the idea that you're going to have your hood Shafi, no, come 340 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,099 in. In and have a year where he's 341 00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,200 basically playing at the same level of Xavier Johnson this 342 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,700 year statistically and you're making the tournament. 343 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:14,200 We just don't have a lot of experience in doing that and, 344 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,400 you know, Zeller and Eric Gordon are kind of outliers. 345 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,700 Like those are just the kind of freshmen that you don't normally 346 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,200 see. So all that saying is just that 347 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,800 the idea that you're just going to take these freshmen and plug 348 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,700 them in is unlikely, you know, when I have this I went ahead 349 00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:30,600 and did it. I started every guy in the last 350 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,100 20 years, everybody under Xavier Johnson has a lot of guys, You 351 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:36,800 know, Noah vonleh and our mom Bassett Yogi Ferrell and you 352 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,400 know, Justin Smith and drawn Davis like a lot of guys who 353 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,400 turned it appear to be pretty good players who had very, very 354 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,400 pedestrian freshman years, and that's much more than Norm. 355 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,700 So, it's just, as we're doing it. 356 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,100 It's fun. We have a good time. 357 00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:52,500 But like, let's just be careful when you start sliding eyes into 358 00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,300 being like, well, he's going to get 20 25 minutes and you're 359 00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:56,500 going to get 15 points out of him. 360 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,000 And the idea of like, we're not going to have enough time at 361 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,500 either the Physicians, like, believe me. 362 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:02,700 We'll get to February. It'll be like this year. 363 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,800 With tons of time for tons of guys and look, I think it's an 364 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,600 understandable tendency among fans and pundits. 365 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:15,900 You're always wanting to unwrap the next present under, you 366 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:20,100 know, whatever holiday vessel you happen to utilize, whether 367 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:25,000 that's a tree or something else. And and look what we've seen is 368 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,700 that the guys who made the most consistent contributions to IU 369 00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:35,100 in the last year were Xavier. Who while he transferred has 370 00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:39,000 been playing college basketball for a while and race Thompson, 371 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,900 who has also been playing college basketball for a while, 372 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,900 that was his fifth year of Eligibility. 373 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,600 And in certainly Trace Jackson, Davis had a very good year, but 374 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,500 it was, you know, there was a big trough in the middle that 375 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:53,100 frankly you didn't get out of race Thompson or, you know, 376 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:55,400 Xavier Johnson got better as the season went along. 377 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,800 So, you know, on the one hand we've said for years that I you 378 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,800 needs to get older, they need to get more experienced. 379 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:06,800 And yes, it's nice to have talented freshmen coming in. 380 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,400 But I'm with you 100%. I think just cordoning off 20 to 381 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,800 25 minutes and saying it's going to go to this freshman and you 382 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,500 have to play them that amount. Look, I think you, you have to 383 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,200 play the players that are going to produce on a regular basis. 384 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,200 And you sometimes get the Eric Gordon types who come in and 385 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,200 they are immediately. The man, they're immediately 386 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,700 able to contribute but that is in the IU annals of History, 387 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:34,100 very rare and even more. So I think Because a lot of the 388 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:38,000 promising or really exciting freshman that we have had have 389 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000 generally been plugged into teams that haven't been that 390 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,400 good. Noah vonleh being a great 391 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,000 example. I mean the ones that you mention 392 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,000 Bracy, right, you know, they went to the tournament that year 393 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,500 but keep in mind, you know, they've got a bunch of veterans 394 00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:53,000 on that team that that he's able to slide into and it wasn't a 395 00:19:53,008 --> 00:19:54,600 perfect fit. But he, at least had that 396 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,600 support structure around them. You look at the next two years 397 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,900 of racy, right? Where they don't go to the 398 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,300 tournament either year and you start to see some of the issues 399 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:02,700 Cody. Zeller. 400 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,400 His freshman year, you know, he's got Jordan holes and 401 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,300 Christian Watford, and Victor Oladipo. 402 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:12,000 And will she he already on the roster and that group had forged 403 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,400 and identity of the verdell. Jones was on that roster as 404 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,800 well, obviously. And you can go down the list. 405 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,300 This is where I think if there's not a lot more in terms of 406 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:26,300 defections off of this team. I think Jalen Hooch, Fino has a 407 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:29,800 much better and ncj gun for that matter and Banks. 408 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,500 I think this is where they have a better chance of succeeding in 409 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:36,100 a way. Say scoop Bates didn't this year 410 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:39,200 because he had to get plugged into an environment where a lot 411 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,500 of the pieces, as we talked about many times didn't fit 412 00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:44,200 together, particularly. Well, and where they're just 413 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,400 hadn't been a lot of winning over the course of the last four 414 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,600 to five seasons. So, just pump the brakes. 415 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,600 It's fun to speculate. It's fun to think about this 416 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,200 guy's got to play like this. I'm just not going to put a lot 417 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,600 of stock into it. And obviously, you aren't 418 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,800 either. Yeah, well, and you mentioned 419 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,300 the pieces, not totally fitting together. 420 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,000 I'm just gonna start, I'm kind of pinball on around here, but A 421 00:21:03,008 --> 00:21:06,300 question that you asked Tony on that podcast was, you know, what 422 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,700 was wrong with the offense? I'm driving back from from 423 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:11,200 George and I thought I was thinking about it and, you know, 424 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,500 to me it's like a two-fold, there's a problem and there's 425 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,300 also not a problem. I think part of the problem is, 426 00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:20,100 and this is Trish, Jackson, Davis is a talent and a great 427 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:24,100 player. But, you know, he does present a 428 00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,500 problem. This is again the other Hill 429 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,100 that I've been dying on forever that you know, he, we need to 430 00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:30,500 give him an outside, gamer needs to be able to do more than what 431 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,900 he's doing offensively because the, the starting lineup, as it 432 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,000 was consistent played a lot. You had Trace Jackson, Davis 433 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,500 just basically eight feet from the basket at all times. 434 00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:41,900 And when he left his Defender didn't leave with him. 435 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,500 So there's a Defender there, you have race Thompson, kind of 436 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,200 doing some of that and then you basically had Miller cop and 437 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,400 Parker Stewart like they went to the corners because there was 438 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,500 nowhere else. As for them to go on the court, 439 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,300 they couldn't go in to go out because there's, there's a two 440 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:57,400 Defenders there for race. And traces, guys. 441 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,700 They couldn't go out and then go in because there's already a 442 00:21:59,708 --> 00:22:01,900 Defender standing there. And then he has Xavier Johnson 443 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,700 at the point and like the, the geometry of the Court never seem 444 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:10,100 to fit all of that said, you know, as I was thinking about 445 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:13,200 this as I was driving again, like the end of that Rutgers 446 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,800 game is a prime example that, you know, we needed a three. 447 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,500 What's in, Drew up a play, where Parker Short came off a curl and 448 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:22,400 head a way. Open three from the top of the 449 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,200 key, like, all the issues that we have with geometry. 450 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:28,200 You still Drew up a play that got your best, three-point 451 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,900 shooter, a wide-open three. He didn't hit it. 452 00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:33,600 And it's like, who's and I remember telling my buddy at the 453 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,200 time, like, which one's gonna take crap for this but it's 454 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,000 like, I don't know what else you can do. 455 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,600 Like you got, you've got the best shot for your best shooter 456 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,600 and he missed it. Like look, I don't want you but 457 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,400 they'll print date. They end up running another 458 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,800 play. They got Stewart, another good 459 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,000 shot. He hit the shot. 460 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,000 They ended up losing the Rutgers, but it's like that. 461 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,200 It is part of the problem it and I look at that play. 462 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,600 As kind of, I go back to we pulled up here like in 2009 463 00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:01,000 creams. First year, the team went six 464 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,600 and twenty five. I think we could all agree. 465 00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,300 Not a great season, but that season, the one thing that I 466 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:11,000 took away was Matt Roth was 57 for 153 from three chop, 37 467 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,900 percent from three, but I remember during that said, I 468 00:23:12,908 --> 00:23:15,300 think he had like nine through or nine threes against Illinois. 469 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,800 I remember that Seasons like that team didn't have much. 470 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,700 We had a young verdell Jones, you had Tom Prichard yet, but 471 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,900 Like Matt Roth could shoot threes. 472 00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:26,000 But yet Creed was running an offense that got him open 473 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,900 threes. When the defense was like, we 474 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:29,600 all we got to do is worry about this one guy. 475 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,400 There's not a lot of offensive weapons on that team, and I 476 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,100 remember thinking like Creed's pretty damn good at offense. 477 00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:37,600 Like if he's able to get Matt Roth, open threes with this 478 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,400 team, that's pretty good. And it turned out that Creed was 479 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,900 really good at running an offense. 480 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:43,400 Period. Stop there. 481 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,500 But so the fact that Woodson is able to get open shots for his 482 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:50,900 guys, you know, I do think I don't want to be an apologist 483 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,500 for. But it gives me a little bit of 484 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,600 those same feelings that like this is a an odd roster, where 485 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,300 if he's able to get sand, run some really good sets guys 486 00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:01,300 aren't hitting shots. Maybe we get guys, who can hit 487 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:03,300 shots, things are going to look vastly different. 488 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:06,900 It's entirely possible. I mean whether you want to be of 489 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:11,700 the mindset that the offense was bad because guys weren't hitting 490 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,000 shots, you know, because they were just not capable of making 491 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,700 them or the offense was bad because it wasn't giving guys 492 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:21,900 shot opportunities. I'm I guess more The former Camp 493 00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:24,600 than the latter Camp because if you look at the offense as a 494 00:24:24,608 --> 00:24:26,800 whole, there's some things that you can take away. 495 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,400 That said, well at the very least, the offense under Mike 496 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,500 Woodson was able to shore up some things, you know, Trace 497 00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:39,500 Jackson Davis, being an example. He posts his best shooting 498 00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:42,300 percentage and is best effective field goal percentage of his 499 00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:49,200 career in this past season, you know, he's able to increase his 500 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,400 abilities on the offensive. Glass even though 501 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,400 percentage-wise it was you know, is about the same as it was a 502 00:24:55,408 --> 00:24:57,900 previous year, but it within where the offense was. 503 00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:02,200 It was almost a more impressive contribution and you can go down 504 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,200 the list. I mean, race Thompson was more 505 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,600 efficient offensively than it was the previous year. 506 00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:10,500 There's a lot of things, both internally and externally, that 507 00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:12,200 you feel like the pieces were there. 508 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,200 The execution wasn't there? The actual we're going to carry 509 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,900 this out and hit the shot. I don't know if that necessarily 510 00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:20,900 changes too much, and maybe it's just a matter. 511 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:25,000 Or of more practice, more interactions more. 512 00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:26,800 Here's what you have to do at this time. 513 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,800 In this situation. It does take a while to get 514 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,800 players to think along those lines to get rid of the ball 515 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,300 when you've got the shot as opposed to waiting and looking 516 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,000 around understanding the difference between those things 517 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:39,200 and even something. As Elemental as the 518 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,900 pick-and-roll, which we finally saw start to work towards the 519 00:25:41,908 --> 00:25:45,900 tail end of this last year. I just, I think the big question 520 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:52,500 ultimately for the offense. Is whether the missed shots and 521 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:57,000 the droughts offensively are something that can be addressed 522 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,200 through schematics and through training, or whether that is 523 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,700 something where there's just, there's a fundamental issue with 524 00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:07,500 the players and their ability to execute and I don't know what, I 525 00:26:07,508 --> 00:26:08,900 don't totally know what the answer that is. 526 00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:11,900 I think it's probably an execution issue rather than a 527 00:26:11,908 --> 00:26:14,600 plans issue. That's not to say that the plans 528 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,700 couldn't be better in a lot of spots, but I do think that a 529 00:26:17,708 --> 00:26:20,300 whole nother Of working on execution. 530 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:23,900 Probably gets this team. A lot closer knowing that last 531 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:27,000 year, most of their execution time and practice was spent on 532 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,000 defense and we certainly saw some improvements in that area. 533 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,100 Not just collectively, but also individually. 534 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,100 Yeah, I mean, the only trouble is you have like, you know, you 535 00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:39,600 did lose your best, you know, statistically best three-point 536 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000 shooter and Parker Stewart, you know, you're going to be based 537 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,700 you hoping, you know Xavier Johnson keeps shooting at the 538 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,600 level he is it is. I know you talked about in the 539 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,100 Other pods like it's baffling that out how bad we've just 540 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:55,100 gotten as a program. And getting three point 541 00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:57,100 shooters. I did do that research. 542 00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:04,700 I was looking at Armand Franklin and what providence Al Durham 543 00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:06,100 Alger up. Yeah, like I look at their 544 00:27:06,108 --> 00:27:09,400 numbers at how like they didn't get that much better when they 545 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,200 left it just it's wild. The three-point shooting. 546 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,400 How are your board? Just not able to get it but it's 547 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,000 well, that's right, cooking stuff. 548 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,100 That's the word. A lot of the recruiting. 549 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:20,800 It's weird. It's like Armand, Franklin's a 550 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,800 great example. I mean Armand, Franklin was a 551 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,900 pretty good three-point shooter for Indiana. 552 00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:28,000 His sophomore year shot 42%. We thought gosh, that's a big 553 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,600 loss. He shot. 29.6% Virginia this 554 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,900 year. You know, Al Durham was was a 555 00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:35,900 pretty good three-point shooter for Indiana All Things 556 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,000 Considered. I mean, it wasn't a great 557 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:42,100 exhibition, but he was in the 38 percent range his last two years 558 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:45,000 that I was shocked. 23% at Providence. 559 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,600 This last year. There's a lot of things. 560 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,400 That go into all of this. And the one thing that's hard 561 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:58,900 for me and you, and I think anybody watching IU is, how do 562 00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:01,700 you analyze? What is Woodson? 563 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:04,200 And what is Woodson's approach? And what is the overall way that 564 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,100 this team is playing like, how much of that is just latent in, 565 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,700 what's been built up and what people have known versus? 566 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:14,500 What is an artifact of the new system in the new approach to 567 00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:17,000 things. I don't think we know that yet 568 00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:20,100 one season is not enough of a Ample size, to be able to say, 569 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:22,500 for sure. It's why we were so patient on 570 00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:24,800 Archie, because we looked at it was like, well, we knew the 571 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,900 talent level had dipped. So it's like, you got to give it 572 00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:30,600 two or three years to figure it out, and make sure that this 573 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,000 isn't working. And then I think everybody 574 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,300 figured out that it wasn't working with Woodson and I know 575 00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:38,800 everybody's impatient, but I saw enough positives on defense, 576 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,700 that makes me think. All right, give them a year on 577 00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:42,200 offense. I think they'll figure that out 578 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,300 too, but we'll see. I could be wrong on that. 579 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,300 Yeah. Yeah, well, but the other thing 580 00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:52,000 too is, you know, he has a full off season this year as an 581 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,800 office and he has his whole staff. 582 00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:56,900 I mean, that's the thing is, you had guys like, I'm not saying 583 00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,400 Pfeiffer motto. We're bad or good but they were 584 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,000 not Woodson's hires like that is definitely what I take from this 585 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,600 offseason is this is now Woodson's program. 586 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,100 Like now he has the keys, he is in control this program making 587 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,300 the tournament. I think allowed him to take some 588 00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:18,500 of that control and it's you know, it's It is a good thing. 589 00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:21,400 But like it's, you know, again when we hired cream, he brought 590 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,700 his whole team and we hired Archie. 591 00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:25,400 He brought his whole team in it's bizarre to hire Woodson 592 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,000 back. Hey, you don't get to of the, 593 00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:30,300 the off, the Accord are spots and the basketball off spot, 594 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:32,900 will hire those on our own and you'll get, guys, you can meet 595 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:36,600 on, you know, first day of work. So this is this is his program. 596 00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:42,200 It is his now and you know, we will see where it goes, but I'm 597 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,400 with you. There was enough, positive on 598 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,200 the ending. I'm trying to stay positive 599 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,800 because it's yeah. There's been a lot of what you 600 00:29:47,808 --> 00:29:51,100 could perceive as bad news. But in the end, none of it. 601 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:52,900 Is that bad me Fitness. He's the only one that's a 602 00:29:52,908 --> 00:29:55,400 little bit of like I wasn't expecting him to transfer, but 603 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,500 you know, people transfer people decide to go for a bunch of 604 00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:59,500 different reasons, you have some transfers and then, you know, 605 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,000 the coaches, those things leaving is, you know, it is 606 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,400 normal business. And like I said, if we win 607 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,000 games, none of this is gonna matter now. 608 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,600 No, I mean most of the external or the side drama tends to bleed 609 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,300 out whenever there's something better to pay attention to. 610 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:15,600 And there just hasn't been we need more of that. 611 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,000 So let's let's get more of it. Into the system, please. 612 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,800 I got one more thing. I know you're tight on time. 613 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,600 Yeah, but just a I've heard this in a couple different places, 614 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,200 you know, we had a and I want to get your thoughts on the st. 615 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,400 Peter's beat of Purdue and we've talked off the pot. 616 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,100 I want to get it on pod to which is just just fantastic. 617 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,400 But you know, the Big Ten doesn't win a title again. 618 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,900 I heard it on a couple of Indiana pods, you know, what's 619 00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,000 the problem? And I'm as guilty as anybody 620 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,700 else. Like I've I talk to Jess settles 621 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:42,800 about it. Like, you know, is it 622 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,000 officiating? I think there's some of those 623 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,600 things. I would just say a bit of a 624 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,000 scarecrow argument. You know, the last couple years 625 00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:51,000 have not been good. But there's a great article on 626 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,300 538. I recommend you go check it out. 627 00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:57,200 It's called where to the big Ten's March magic go but you 628 00:30:57,208 --> 00:31:01,800 know from 2000 2019 the Big Ten had 16 teams, make the final 629 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,200 four of the most of any conference 48. 630 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,500 Sweet 16s, which was just too shy the acc's 50. 631 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,700 So it's you put the most teams in the final four for 19 632 00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:15,000 straight years. A lot of it and I hate to just 633 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,100 kind of push it away, but it's like a lot of it's just Just, 634 00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:18,100 you know, you have some bad games. 635 00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:21,000 You have some bad matchups, like if any one of those if Michigan 636 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,100 beats Louisville, we're not having this discussion. 637 00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:26,400 Like any one of those games. Go a different way. 638 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,900 And Michigan State cash was one of those in like, we're not 639 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:32,800 having any of these discussions. We've been a really good league 640 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,500 for a long time. I do agree. 641 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:36,100 The officiating doesn't help us in the end. 642 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:38,400 I think the way these teams are constructed, but when people are 643 00:31:38,408 --> 00:31:39,900 like, oh, we need more high level Talent. 644 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:43,200 It's like dude, three to four of the top 10 picks in the NBA 645 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,000 draft. The Big Ten players like we have 646 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,600 top level Talent, we have top. All coaches. 647 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,300 I'm not sure. We have top-level officials. 648 00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:51,400 But I do think this idea of what we have now. 649 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,200 Even want to 22 years. Like we've got to you know, 650 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,600 we've got to change everything up. 651 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,700 It's like, all right, the last two years has not been good. 652 00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:00,500 But if you make the bar like making the most final fours, 653 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,400 we've done that like making the most sweet 16 s where s the 654 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,300 country doing that like you're setting the bar at only one team 655 00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,700 gets to do it every single year. So just throwing that kind of 656 00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:12,700 counter argument to a scarecrow argument out there. 657 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:14,800 No, I mean, look, there's something to be said for that. 658 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,500 It hasn't been a complete wash. I mean, but it's it's irksome 659 00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,800 when the Big Ten with all of its financial resources and all of 660 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,400 its Brands isn't able to win a title. 661 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,800 When the titles, what matters. Yes. 662 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,800 The final four is absolutely matter certainly, but if all 663 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,700 you're doing is getting final fours. 664 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:35,500 While the ACC or the Big 12 or the SEC, or winning the national 665 00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:38,700 championships, you're going to be perceived, you know, however, 666 00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:42,200 unfairly is it conference that just can't get it done? 667 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,400 And I do think that if you look over the history, the teams that 668 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,600 have made, Made the final four have been teams that are 669 00:32:50,608 --> 00:32:53,900 comprised in a way. That is somewhat similar to what 670 00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:57,500 you see every year out of the top, ACC teams teams with a lot 671 00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,100 of high level Talent, that's athletic. 672 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:02,500 That's offensive. Oriented the generally play at a 673 00:33:02,508 --> 00:33:07,600 faster pace. And that is something I think 674 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,000 that doesn't really mesh. Well. 675 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,100 And I talked about this on the, the senior counsel podcast 676 00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,800 earlier last week. It's not something that mesh is 677 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,600 particularly well, Well with what wins you games in the Big 678 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,300 10, you know, that having that like the if you think about the 679 00:33:24,308 --> 00:33:27,100 Villanova, we also may be awesome more teams with, you 680 00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:30,200 know, five level 1 infractions and FBI investigation, but you 681 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,900 know, I mean maybe but let's not kid ourselves about the Big Ten 682 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:40,600 being innocent on that front, you know, I mean, you know, the 683 00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:45,800 the reality is when the best of the Big Ten in the final four 684 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:48,200 has met up again. Best of these other conferences, 685 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,200 they've lost. And that is a problem because we 686 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,300 can talk about final fours. All we want is like, what we're 687 00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:56,000 better than the Pac-12. And it's like, well, I would 688 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,400 hope so. But you know, the reality is the 689 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,500 Big Ten much like in football. The Big Ten wants to be judged 690 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:05,500 on championships, the same way that the SEC does in football. 691 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:07,400 The same way that the ACC does in basketball. 692 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,300 The difference is those conferences are winning 693 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:13,600 championships and the Big Ten is not and you know, as much as 694 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,400 people want, you know, you can we use the 20-year Mark as 695 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,500 Michigan. State won the title in 2000. 696 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:21,199 Michigan. State was the only top seed left 697 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,300 standing that year. It was a very lucky break of the 698 00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:27,300 bracket for them. And look, there's other teams 699 00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:30,900 that have had lucky breaks of the brackets, but it's, it's 700 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,400 gotten to the point where when you think about the last time, 701 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,500 the Big Ten was really able to claim. 702 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,500 Without question that it was the top league in the country 703 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:43,199 because they were winning titles and they had a bunch of of 704 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,500 top-level athletes every single year. 705 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,100 I just It's it hasn't resonated enough or it hasn't resulted in 706 00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:56,199 enough actual championships to ever feel like you can make the 707 00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,400 argument that the Big Ten is clearly the top League. 708 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,200 I mean, this year that was supposed to be it was a really 709 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,100 deep League team. Didn't even get a team out of 710 00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:04,800 the sweet 16. And you think about that 711 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,300 Villanova game. I've learned of a Kansas game in 712 00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:11,600 the final for the difference, in the way that that game was 713 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,700 played and officiated where there was what one or two fouls 714 00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:18,600 called in the first. Ten minutes of each half and 715 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,200 then you compare that to what you see in a Big Ten game. 716 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,000 I think certainly something needs to be done, just to 717 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,700 acclimate the team's to what it's like to play at a high 718 00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:29,900 level where athleticism and skill are more important than 719 00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:33,800 physicality. That's that, that is fair before 720 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,500 we wrap up just because short schadenfreude is fun. 721 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:42,200 You and I talked about it, but you know, this was a 20, you 722 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,800 know, 15 years you're kind of building up to this team at 723 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,200 Purdue and One of the best teams Matt Painter has had a bracket 724 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,200 that breaks. I mean, could not have broken 725 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,500 better for any team to be like, hey number one seed, got number 726 00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:59,500 two, seed and gone like it. Is there outside of them. 727 00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:01,800 Be like, hey, we're just going to move the regional the Mackey. 728 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,400 I'm not sure what else? They could have done the made 729 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,400 this better and you don't get it done. 730 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,100 It's not, it's a close game. No one gets injured. 731 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:12,300 You know, wow. Like that. 732 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:14,700 That is hitting a brick wall. I know it's you. 733 00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:16,600 Hey, I, you'll even get out of the, you know, there. 734 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,600 Their game against st. Mary don't care watching, Pretty 735 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,700 loose like that is awesome. This is worse than the loss. 736 00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:25,300 We had the Syracuse because at least Syracuse the four seed 737 00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:29,300 they made the final four. And you know, I don't know, man. 738 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:33,900 That is that is a tough tough L to throw on there. 739 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,200 I mean, it's all the things I just said about the Big Ten 740 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,500 Purdue is the Big Ten in miniature that they are. 741 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,900 They all the stuffs on paper, the talent, the accomplishments, 742 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,400 everything is there. Except they don't win titles. 743 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,500 And you know what's fascinating to me about this Purdue team is, 744 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,100 this was clearly from a an overall Talent perspective. 745 00:36:57,100 --> 00:37:00,500 This should have been the the season that Purdue was able to 746 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:05,700 win the conference title. The, the Big Ten tournament that 747 00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:07,600 and the national championship should have loosened able to get 748 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,000 to the final four as you mentioned. 749 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,800 You know, they play of that. Yeah, they got none of it. 750 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,000 And there's no real explanation as to why for the amount of 751 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,100 talent that that Purdue team. Team had to not play better 752 00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:22,300 defense and to put themselves in a position where they would play 753 00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:26,700 a team that got completely outclassed an out talented by 754 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:31,500 North Carolina and Purdue who, you know, of course, earlier on 755 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:34,000 in the season, beat that North Carolina, team on a neutral 756 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,000 floor. The fact that Purdue was an able 757 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,700 and Matt Painter, wasn't able to figure out a way to game plan 758 00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:43,300 effectively against st. Peter's, despite having two guys 759 00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:47,600 above 610, who have very little Double scoring. 760 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,500 It's, it's hard to take anything away from that other than, 761 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:54,300 that's why Purdue has the reputation that it has. 762 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:58,000 And there's not a lot else. You can say, as much as Purdue 763 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,800 people might want to get mad about that. 764 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,400 As much as people might Point their fingers and say, will you, 765 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,500 I, you fans have no room to comment. 766 00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:08,100 Look, you, you have to be able to judge a program by itself. 767 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,700 And, you know, produce constant thing is they're they're tired 768 00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:13,800 of living in the shadow of, I you, but you don't get out of 769 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,500 the Shadow unless you win something. 770 00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:20,900 And you at least get to the final four and it looked like it 771 00:38:20,908 --> 00:38:23,300 was a affair complete that they were going to get there and they 772 00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:27,000 couldn't get their. So I take a great amount of joy 773 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,200 out of it because I got you just you get very tired of hearing 774 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,900 about Purdue and you know how supposedly Superior that program 775 00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:39,800 is and what they've built and they still when the rubber meets 776 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,100 the road have been incapable of doing it. 777 00:38:42,100 --> 00:38:44,200 And there's been a variety of reasons for that over the last 778 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,700 40, some years, but it's always the Same result. 779 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:50,200 And I think that's hilarious. Yeah. 780 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,200 No, I mean, and they are they're a great consistent Big Ten team. 781 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:58,700 Yeah, like they, they could put up 20 23 wins a game a season. 782 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:00,800 It's how I will end my buddy, Dan. 783 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,900 I like, I was calling him before the sweet 16 lamenting like, 784 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:05,400 damn, like Purdue's going to the final four. 785 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,900 I guess it's happening this year and he's like, hey is that 786 00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:09,200 painters? Killer coach like? 787 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,100 Yeah. He's like you'll be all right. 788 00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,500 Yeah. No, I mean and then after the 789 00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:15,800 game Barkley was like, that was the worst coach game Versailles, 790 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,000 Barton was Ask you like I don't know what the hell they were 791 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,000 doing. I mean, it's like Barclays 792 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,500 reaction to Kansas in the first half of the national title game, 793 00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:26,900 which was almost as bad and would have been given given the 794 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:30,300 relative, you know success level of both of those teams in this 795 00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:32,500 year. That wouldn't have been as bad 796 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,000 certainly as Purdue losing to st. 797 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,000 Peter's. But it still would have been 798 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,800 pretty bad. Yeah. 799 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,100 I don't know. I don't know how you come back 800 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:39,000 from. This is painter. 801 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,500 Like what I mean? Could he have success down the 802 00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:42,500 road? Is he going to continue to 803 00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:43,800 recruit? He still relatively young? 804 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,300 I'm sure. But it's kind of like we're Gene 805 00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:48,500 Katie. Not after about you know, 15 806 00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:51,400 years into his career at Purdue. You're just like, all right, 807 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,500 Jane you've had Glenn Robinson. You've had Melvin McCants and 808 00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:57,400 Everette Stephens. You've had all of these really, 809 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,700 really great players. You've had teams that have won 810 00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:02,300 multiple Big Ten titles. You can't get to the final four 811 00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:06,100 like at some point. It's not, it's not bad luck. 812 00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:10,400 And yeah, so that's it's going to be interesting to watch 813 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,300 because they're not going to be as good next year. 814 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,200 And it's as we know as I, you fans, it's incredibly rare. 815 00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:18,300 To get the types of rosters together. 816 00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:20,100 That had the offensive Firepower. 817 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,500 That, that Purdue team did. It's amazing, that they kind of 818 00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:26,400 pissed it away. That is, that is what I think 819 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,400 for a lot of people was the end of created. 820 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,200 I you like that team that lost to Syracuse. 821 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,500 I think for a lot of us realize like that team was so perfectly. 822 00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:37,100 Constructed like that team, you know, I think we would've been 823 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:39,000 okay losing in the final four to another one. 824 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,000 See, but like, we just, it's like we were better than that. 825 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,500 Sit, that Syracuse team. I think that was, that was the 826 00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:45,800 end of really, to me like that was the start of the end of 827 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,400 crean and This could be the same thing for painter. 828 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,000 And yeah, I think the difference is I you fans have ridiculously 829 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,800 high standards and for Purdue fans. 830 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,700 I mean, are they going to do better than Matt Painter? 831 00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,700 Probably not. I mean like it's hard to 832 00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:02,300 Envision. Another coach being able to come 833 00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:05,800 in and have the level of success that painter has had its not to 834 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,700 say that a coach probably couldn't do better with the 835 00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:10,000 talent, but I don't know what other coaches going to come in 836 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,600 in that environment and get as much out of that program as 837 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,500 painter has because as much as Purdue fans want to argue to the 838 00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:19,900 contrary, it's just it's not a national championship caliber 839 00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:23,300 program. It's it never has been. 840 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,100 I mean least I can maybe it was in the 20s and early 30s, but 841 00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:29,700 that was that was a hundred years ago at this point. 842 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,500 So yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm tired of talking about 843 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:35,000 Purdue already. So anyway, I know that'll wrap 844 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,600 us up this time. We're going to do more will have 845 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,900 an upcoming podcast. We will chat with you folks 846 00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:42,300 about some things will tackle some questions back with great. 847 00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:44,700 All right, Scott. Good talking to you. 848 00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:49,200 Thank you to Scott for writing me for that relatively brief, 849 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,300 but inspired or at least relatively fast conversation. 850 00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:57,700 Perhaps inspired is going a little bit too far, but we had 851 00:41:57,700 --> 00:41:59,700 some fun with that one. It was good to talk with Scott 852 00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:02,600 again about what's going on with IU basketball. 853 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,100 And as we try, this is always a rough time of year in terms of 854 00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:08,800 trying to figure out. All right, you know, when is the 855 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,100 season officially over, when do we officially get to the 856 00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:15,100 offseason? And you know, with the recent 857 00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:18,600 news, of course that Trace Jackson Davis is going to test 858 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,400 the NBA draft Waters, that actually came out after the 859 00:42:21,408 --> 00:42:24,700 podcast that Recorded, we didn't I decided. 860 00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:27,400 Well, you know, everything that we said is still quite pertinent 861 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,900 because frankly tjd announcing that he was going to test the 862 00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:33,300 draft Waters, but retain eligibility changes. 863 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:35,500 Nothing about the conversation that we just had. 864 00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:40,100 So still a lot unsettled for Indiana in terms of its roster 865 00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:42,600 composition. You know, like I said, we're 866 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,500 recording this or I'm recording this section on the 11th. 867 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,200 By the time you hear this three or four people could have left, 868 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,200 or we might discover that everybody's coming back. 869 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,000 It's really hard to say. At this point. 870 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,700 So just buckle up and enjoy the ride and understand that this is 871 00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:59,200 happening across college basketball at this point. 872 00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:01,800 So we'll see what happens with Indiana and where everything 873 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,300 finally lands, my thanks to my partner Scott Caulfield and my 874 00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:07,500 thanks to all you folks for listening in throughout the 875 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:10,200 course, not just of this podcast, but over the course of 876 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,600 this entire basketball season, my thanks to home-field apparel 877 00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:16,800 and to our friends in the back home network. 878 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,300 We will be back with more podcasting coming up later on 879 00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:23,700 this week or next week, depending on How news warrants 880 00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:26,800 for Crimson cast on Galen? Clabby will catch you folks on 881 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,900 the flip side, bring back the Bison song, everybody.