You're listening to the back home network presented by home
field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cascade.
When caviar joining you, it is the 11th of April.
Hope you're all doing well as we head into the second third of.
Of April hard to believe. It's already 1/3 over at this
point and we're still waiting for some resolution on some
things with IU basketball. Certainly IU football going
through some spring, practice items.
And some interesting things going on there.
Are you women's basketball has had quite a last week as they
pick up what looked to be. Some impact transfers pulling in
some really high quality players.
One from Oregon. One from Minnesota, one from
Providence. And so Terry Moore and her crew
really starting to reload as they head into the 20, 22 23
season. So we'll keep an eye on what
happens with that roster and certainly will have more to talk
about with all three of these Sports as we move forward today.
Me and Scott get together and talk about some of the pressing
issues with IU, basketball Scott, had some questions.
I had some answers, we talked about.
Oh, a little bit of everything in terms of how to perceive this
IU team and what to think about In terms of the recruits coming
in and try to give everybody a little bit of a reality, check
in terms of what to expect and perhaps what, not to get your
hopes up on. We also talk a little bit about
Purdue as much as I'm loathe to do that.
We needed to chat about what happened to them in the NCAA
tournament and what it means in terms of their overall Legacy.
So we'll get to that as well here in a little bit.
Before we do that. Just to reminder, that Crimson
cast is part of the back home network and the presenting
sponsor, the back home network is home field apparently.
Your place to go for the finest in vintage Collegiate, apparel,
comfy, stuff stuff that you want to wear all over the place all
the time and they continue to come up with just Dynamite
designs and products. And, you know, it's really for a
college sports fan. It's what you've been waiting
for, essentially your whole life, rather than being stuck
with the inadequate and often disappointing stuff, that's on
the rack at You know, the your local coals or sometimes even
official Varsity shops across the country home field apparel
is almost bound to have something that you're going to
really enjoy and want to wear on a regular basis.
So be sure to check them out. Home field apparel.com, if you
use the code home H ome get a discount on your first order.
So be sure to head over to home field.
Apparel.com check out what they've got.
Follow them on social media as well.
They are certainly one of the best sports.
Peril related follows in the entirety of the twitterverse.
So if you're not following them, you're missing out.
Anyway, let's go ahead and get to our conversation and just a
reminder, folks, that you can always find Crimson cast by
following us on Twitter, but also subscribe on.
ITunes, subscribe on Spotify if that's your thing.
And that way the episodes get delivered right to your phone or
wherever you listen to them. All right, we've got Scott,
we've got Galen. We've got the original Crimson
cast, Voltron up and running today.
Scott. How was vacation?
Voltron? That's awesome.
It was good. We had a good time out in the
cabins. It was funny as I was driving
down there. We went to a cabin last year
around this time. I thought what a world, what a
difference a year, makes because remember, driving back last year
and it's like, we got the fights news where the Woodson news.
I can listen to all these podcasts about how great things
are going to be. And then now it's We're driving
back. Its I got five news.
Got the Vada news, like a lot of the same same names.
Different different stories and little bit different.
We know the vacation was nice, good time to get out and it's
always my favorite trip of the year.
Just getting it. Had cabin out in the woods and
just enjoying enjoying time with the family and the dog few
things illustrate the difference between Scott and me more than
our ideal weekend. His involves being in a cabin in
the woods. Mine involves being in a beach
setting as much as humanly. Only possible.
So that's okay. Like meet you, too.
I like it. All Scott doesn't discriminate.
He just doesn't want to be home. Ultimately.
So, so Scott's a lots of stuff going on as you just alluded to
with IU basketball and we wanted to dive in and talk about some
of it. We still have a lot of
questions. We need to get to from the folks
out there on Twitter. We're not going to tackle much
of that today. But what would you like to talk
about? You've been kind of out of the
action here for a little bit, and there's a lot to catch up
on. So, where should we begin?
I know it's tough with a group of Bloomington and MCCS.
See much like I, you always has spring break the first week of
the tournament. So I always got like that
Thursday, Friday off school, which is great.
Now, you know, with my wife school and here in Westfield,
the spring break is always late. So we're always gone look right
at the, you know, we missed the, the final four and all that.
It's like, I'm always now gone when it seems like this, this
news, dumped of things, you know, and it's bad, because I
feel like things have already kind of had their psycho.
Everyone's had the five takes, the reverse takes, and it's
like, we're back. Normal, you know in the end.
I've kind of come down to this. Like none of this matters if we
win games like last offseason. We won the offseason for the
most part. So hey, we got would soon, we
got five forgot model. Like we're all talk ourselves
into it and none of that really mattered.
Well, Ron Harper jr. Was, you know, dropping his
proverbial balls on the floor and Assembly Hall?
No one was like, oh, but remember how great things were
last April and none of this is gonna matter here.
If we win games we make it as a nine seed in the tournament next
year. No one's gonna be like, oh man.
I wish we'd done this with fight or with Mota.
That said, the order of operations doesn't look good.
It definitely feels like, Woodson is fully in charge,
which he probably should have been, you know, that's the funny
thing that people forget about, you know, Woodson got hired.
He didn't get to name two of his assistants or the director of
basketball operations. Just kind of bizarre for head
coach to not have that much say in who he gets.
But, you know, in totality a lot of not ideal news, but again, I
think winning cures all. But my question for you on this
that I haven't fully gotten is, You know, assistant coaches come
and go. So the idea that like, you know,
just just a dangerous, a assistant getting fired is not
the end of the world. I'm curious for AI.
You guy who came in just a year ago and again, like an IU guy
with a lot of IU history. Why did it feel like again from
my perspective just felt like he was kind of Done Dirty on the
way out. Like, it felt like it was kind
of a lot of like those articles being lined up or it's like all
right. Now we can kind of Russell
Wilson, left Seattle's like everyone had a, had a hit piece
ready to go. It felt like five, kind of got
kicked on the way out the door. Or where maybe he shouldn't have
been. I don't know.
That. That was my take.
I'm curious your thoughts on why?
It didn't feel like it was more like, hey, Dane, fives.
A great guy. Just didn't work out here at
felt like a little more like no. No, we fired him.
And here's a couple hit pieces from pigs.
Well and other spots too, I mean, look, I think and
understand folks that, you know, and what I do for a living.
I look at the stuff all the time.
Analytically. And look, this happened when,
you know, when Terry Francona got fired by the Red Sox, it got
it happened. Like you said, with Russell
Wilson, happens all the time. And I think a lot of the
reactionary pieces about Fife leaving on both sides were
Overdone. I think that there's always a
desire on the part of the people in and around a given program,
who are there to put themselves in a position where they don't
look like the bad people by doing X, Y or Z.
And you know, I think that with with someone like five, there
was a real concern that people would be up in arms about him,
essentially getting fired. Unless there was some reason
That was given or reasons given that would justify it in the
eyes of. And even then, I mean, you know,
certainly we saw and heard the chatter on Sports, Talk Radio
and on message boards, people really didn't like that.
And so a lot of that stuff is damage control.
Yes, it's unfair. I think they're even when there
are grains of Truth in it. I mean, as you mentioned
assistance, leave all the time players, leave all the time and
you don't normally see those sorts of things coming out.
But the flip side of it is it's kind of The nature to I think on
both sides of the equation. Make yourself look as good as
possible while making the person that that's leaving.
Or that did you wrong or whatever.
Look bad in in retrospect. And so that's to me, it's not
great. It's unfortunate.
But I think a lot of it, whatever the root cause, and
whatever was true and whatever is false.
I think ultimately, there was just a personality conflict
there that spilled over into some other are areas that.
And I don't think that in this era of social media coverage
where everything is so immediate and it's really out there to get
people fired up. I don't know how much people
really need to get too into the Weeds on that.
It's part of this larger soap. Opera that takes place with
sports in general, and IU basketball, in particular.
And ultimately, I don't know that it does anybody a lot of
good unless you're on the inside and we're part of the dealings.
It really doesn't affect. The program that much.
I think, I don't think it necessarily affects the way that
you as a fan are experiencing the program or at least it
doesn't have to. Yeah.
No, that's kind of been a joke. I've said, it's like, we're
starting to debate, like, what's good and bad about our third and
fourth assistance. Like, we're Deep In The Weeds.
Like it's, I don't look at guns at me.
I'm a peripheral fan of Gonzaga. Like, I know, Mark Few is their
coach. I don't, I couldn't tell you who
their third assistant is, and it doesn't matter.
And like if there's if you told me that their decision and got
fired at Gonzaga next year, going into next.
As much, okay. I still think you'll be pretty
good. But so I it's none of this stuff
really matters that much. So yeah, that's that's where we
are today now. Yeah, it's it's tough and I feel
I'm glad things have subsided a bit and, you know, particularly
if the rumors are true that the Dane five kind of land on Thad,
Matta staff and Butler. I think that's a great landing
spot for him. And I think he would do really
well in that role. And I think that the assistant
coach set up that, Indiana. Seems to have it looks like
Woodson's comfortable with that moving into this year.
And I think that's great. And ultimately, I think that's
the something that we can put behind us.
Now that March is gone and we've turned the page into April, at
least, I hope so. Because as you say, you know,
part of the problem with the lack of success for IU is, we
end up getting caught in these sorts of conversations, and
these sorts of arguments. And it's, it doesn't matter,
like nothing that it gets said, or reported at the level that
it's Then I think really ends up resonating.
It just ends up exacerbating, an already difficult situation
among fans and with fans perception of the program.
Yeah, and then men and we're kind of we're recording this on
Friday April 8th that we're kind of in a flux spot because we
still, we've had the people, you know transferring.
I went to see my dad right after like Michael dirr announced and
we were just kind of talking about basketball and he's like,
he was like a hundred percent sure that tomorrow Bates had.
His name into the portal. Like, no, he hasn't.
Well, no, he hasn't like it's like no, like it was like this
back and forth, but we were still waiting to hear about
Trace, Jackson, Davis, and race Thompson.
I think those are kind of the big dominoes to fall on the
transfer side of where you know, I think our team's going to
really depend on whether their back or not what direction our
team goes. I don't know, you know a lot of
people I've gotten really hung up one way or another on the
race and Trace thing. And, you know, some people have
convinced themselves as like, well, we're not going to be
good, unless they're both back or at least one of them is back.
Some people have convinced themselves that both of them
need to leave and that you just need to hand the starting
position at least at the for, I guess, over to Jordan Geronimo.
And then, like hope that you've got a solution at the five.
Look, here's the thing. I think that it's easy to get
tied up in thinking that there's Going to be a an ideal
circumstance, by which the roster will take shape and that
we don't really know. I mean, we went in the last
year, you know, Xavier Johnson was on the roster, but I don't
know how many people really looked at that guy and said that
guy is going to be our starting point guard.
Most people assumed it was going to be robbed fennessy and that's
just not how the the year when at all a lot of people went into
last year thinking, that, that Tamar Bates was going to be a
major player in terms of Minutes and points and so forth and that
just never materialized. Meanwhile, I don't know that
many people were looking at Jordan Geronimo and saying that,
that guy's going to make a huge impact down the road, and he
ended up making a really big impact.
So, as you, and I talked about many times it just, it's
speculation is fun. But it really means nothing at
the end of the day. Because not only do you have the
uncertainties of how players are going to play with each other.
You also have the uncertainty of who's going to actually get
better in the offseason. You know, my favorite on this is
Ways, you know that that summer and fall leading into what ended
up being Mike Davis, is interim year.
As people were thinking about, who was going to be playing
Major minutes and making a big impact.
Nobody was saying, hey, you know, Tom Coverdale, that's the
guy that's going to solidify his hold on the point guard position
and really become an everyday starter.
I mean that Tom barely played his first two years and that,
that kind of thing happens pretty regularly, you know, as
much as Victor Oladipo was a relation is sophomore and Junior
years. There were a lot of things that
happened is freshman year where you were like, well, maybe he'll
round into something of an athlete, but he probably won't
be. He certainly won't be scoring
double figures or anything like that and how wrong we were.
So, look the I think it's an along along those lines.
I'll hop in one of those lines. I think it's, I listened to your
pod with Father, James Antonio's Rania, the, the Hoosier hotline
guys. And they went into this little
bit of assembly call. I've heard this before and it is
funny. We He's starting to see this for
people are kind of looking at the lineup next year and it's
like, oh we already have, you know, you got to have Drake out
Roy Galloway and you can has Avery Johnson and like you're
going to, you know, put your fee nose coming in.
It's like, all of a sudden we already don't have enough
minutes. Are the guys that we have.
It's like that. That's your point.
Exactly. As not, the way it works.
And I've heard the talk of like, you know, well, gosh next year,
you know how you two split minutes, but he between hoods
Ruffino and Xavier Johnson, like, you know, you're gonna
have to give Hood At least, you know, 20, 25 minutes.
And it's like, I've always all the guys that point guard that I
know on the roster, including our freshman, who can play at a
high level, with in the Big Ten. I got one name.
His name is Xavier Johnson's, but I know that guy can do it.
And and this freshman thing is always, it's always kind of, you
know, my I got two Hills to die on the talk about this pod, but
one is like, the, let's just not expect too much or freshman.
I kind of looked at UV. Take Xavier Johnson.
Give me a second to get to my point.
If you take a look Xavier Johnson's year this year, does
he have? 12 points of 12 points.
A game offensive rating, 102 and the usage rate of 66 and we made
the NCAA tournament. So you say, all right.
I need a freshman over the last 20 years who's had that
Baseline. So averaging 12 or more points.
Having an offensive rating will call it a hundred or over with a
usage rate of over 65 and the team made the tournament in the
last 20 years. You'll how many freshmen have
met that bar for for Indiana for Indiana to?
To it was more. I thought I thought it was too
as well. It's actually for, okay.
Let me see if I can guess them. Yeah, Cody, Zeller.
Yes, Eric Gordon. Yes, Yogi Ferrell.
Nope, James Blackman jr. Yes, and then Trace Jackson
Davis. No interesting.
Gracie. Gracie, right, Christie, right?
Wow. Okay.
Yeah. So so if you look at it based on
points per game. You know, are coordinates like
an outlier 20 points. A game offensive rating, 110.
They made the tournament Romeo Langford had a good freshman
year, but they did not make the tournament Bracey, right?
They were a 7c that year, James backs in junior.
They were attend seed. Cody, Zeller.
They were four seed and then TJ D &, DJ white also had
statistically, they be better years and Xavier Johnson, but
they did not make the tournament.
So kind of a weird setup there, but it's like, you look at next
year making the tournament should be the goal.
So the idea that you're going to have your hood Shafi, no, come
in. In and have a year where he's
basically playing at the same level of Xavier Johnson this
year statistically and you're making the tournament.
We just don't have a lot of experience in doing that and,
you know, Zeller and Eric Gordon are kind of outliers.
Like those are just the kind of freshmen that you don't normally
see. So all that saying is just that
the idea that you're just going to take these freshmen and plug
them in is unlikely, you know, when I have this I went ahead
and did it. I started every guy in the last
20 years, everybody under Xavier Johnson has a lot of guys, You
know, Noah vonleh and our mom Bassett Yogi Ferrell and you
know, Justin Smith and drawn Davis like a lot of guys who
turned it appear to be pretty good players who had very, very
pedestrian freshman years, and that's much more than Norm.
So, it's just, as we're doing it.
It's fun. We have a good time.
But like, let's just be careful when you start sliding eyes into
being like, well, he's going to get 20 25 minutes and you're
going to get 15 points out of him.
And the idea of like, we're not going to have enough time at
either the Physicians, like, believe me.
We'll get to February. It'll be like this year.
With tons of time for tons of guys and look, I think it's an
understandable tendency among fans and pundits.
You're always wanting to unwrap the next present under, you
know, whatever holiday vessel you happen to utilize, whether
that's a tree or something else. And and look what we've seen is
that the guys who made the most consistent contributions to IU
in the last year were Xavier. Who while he transferred has
been playing college basketball for a while and race Thompson,
who has also been playing college basketball for a while,
that was his fifth year of Eligibility.
And in certainly Trace Jackson, Davis had a very good year, but
it was, you know, there was a big trough in the middle that
frankly you didn't get out of race Thompson or, you know,
Xavier Johnson got better as the season went along.
So, you know, on the one hand we've said for years that I you
needs to get older, they need to get more experienced.
And yes, it's nice to have talented freshmen coming in.
But I'm with you 100%. I think just cordoning off 20 to
25 minutes and saying it's going to go to this freshman and you
have to play them that amount. Look, I think you, you have to
play the players that are going to produce on a regular basis.
And you sometimes get the Eric Gordon types who come in and
they are immediately. The man, they're immediately
able to contribute but that is in the IU annals of History,
very rare and even more. So I think Because a lot of the
promising or really exciting freshman that we have had have
generally been plugged into teams that haven't been that
good. Noah vonleh being a great
example. I mean the ones that you mention
Bracy, right, you know, they went to the tournament that year
but keep in mind, you know, they've got a bunch of veterans
on that team that that he's able to slide into and it wasn't a
perfect fit. But he, at least had that
support structure around them. You look at the next two years
of racy, right? Where they don't go to the
tournament either year and you start to see some of the issues
Cody. Zeller.
His freshman year, you know, he's got Jordan holes and
Christian Watford, and Victor Oladipo.
And will she he already on the roster and that group had forged
and identity of the verdell. Jones was on that roster as
well, obviously. And you can go down the list.
This is where I think if there's not a lot more in terms of
defections off of this team. I think Jalen Hooch, Fino has a
much better and ncj gun for that matter and Banks.
I think this is where they have a better chance of succeeding in
a way. Say scoop Bates didn't this year
because he had to get plugged into an environment where a lot
of the pieces, as we talked about many times didn't fit
together, particularly. Well, and where they're just
hadn't been a lot of winning over the course of the last four
to five seasons. So, just pump the brakes.
It's fun to speculate. It's fun to think about this
guy's got to play like this. I'm just not going to put a lot
of stock into it. And obviously, you aren't
either. Yeah, well, and you mentioned
the pieces, not totally fitting together.
I'm just gonna start, I'm kind of pinball on around here, but A
question that you asked Tony on that podcast was, you know, what
was wrong with the offense? I'm driving back from from
George and I thought I was thinking about it and, you know,
to me it's like a two-fold, there's a problem and there's
also not a problem. I think part of the problem is,
and this is Trish, Jackson, Davis is a talent and a great
player. But, you know, he does present a
problem. This is again the other Hill
that I've been dying on forever that you know, he, we need to
give him an outside, gamer needs to be able to do more than what
he's doing offensively because the, the starting lineup, as it
was consistent played a lot. You had Trace Jackson, Davis
just basically eight feet from the basket at all times.
And when he left his Defender didn't leave with him.
So there's a Defender there, you have race Thompson, kind of
doing some of that and then you basically had Miller cop and
Parker Stewart like they went to the corners because there was
nowhere else. As for them to go on the court,
they couldn't go in to go out because there's, there's a two
Defenders there for race. And traces, guys.
They couldn't go out and then go in because there's already a
Defender standing there. And then he has Xavier Johnson
at the point and like the, the geometry of the Court never seem
to fit all of that said, you know, as I was thinking about
this as I was driving again, like the end of that Rutgers
game is a prime example that, you know, we needed a three.
What's in, Drew up a play, where Parker Short came off a curl and
head a way. Open three from the top of the
key, like, all the issues that we have with geometry.
You still Drew up a play that got your best, three-point
shooter, a wide-open three. He didn't hit it.
And it's like, who's and I remember telling my buddy at the
time, like, which one's gonna take crap for this but it's
like, I don't know what else you can do.
Like you got, you've got the best shot for your best shooter
and he missed it. Like look, I don't want you but
they'll print date. They end up running another
play. They got Stewart, another good
shot. He hit the shot.
They ended up losing the Rutgers, but it's like that.
It is part of the problem it and I look at that play.
As kind of, I go back to we pulled up here like in 2009
creams. First year, the team went six
and twenty five. I think we could all agree.
Not a great season, but that season, the one thing that I
took away was Matt Roth was 57 for 153 from three chop, 37
percent from three, but I remember during that said, I
think he had like nine through or nine threes against Illinois.
I remember that Seasons like that team didn't have much.
We had a young verdell Jones, you had Tom Prichard yet, but
Like Matt Roth could shoot threes.
But yet Creed was running an offense that got him open
threes. When the defense was like, we
all we got to do is worry about this one guy.
There's not a lot of offensive weapons on that team, and I
remember thinking like Creed's pretty damn good at offense.
Like if he's able to get Matt Roth, open threes with this
team, that's pretty good. And it turned out that Creed was
really good at running an offense.
Period. Stop there.
But so the fact that Woodson is able to get open shots for his
guys, you know, I do think I don't want to be an apologist
for. But it gives me a little bit of
those same feelings that like this is a an odd roster, where
if he's able to get sand, run some really good sets guys
aren't hitting shots. Maybe we get guys, who can hit
shots, things are going to look vastly different.
It's entirely possible. I mean whether you want to be of
the mindset that the offense was bad because guys weren't hitting
shots, you know, because they were just not capable of making
them or the offense was bad because it wasn't giving guys
shot opportunities. I'm I guess more The former Camp
than the latter Camp because if you look at the offense as a
whole, there's some things that you can take away.
That said, well at the very least, the offense under Mike
Woodson was able to shore up some things, you know, Trace
Jackson Davis, being an example. He posts his best shooting
percentage and is best effective field goal percentage of his
career in this past season, you know, he's able to increase his
abilities on the offensive. Glass even though
percentage-wise it was you know, is about the same as it was a
previous year, but it within where the offense was.
It was almost a more impressive contribution and you can go down
the list. I mean, race Thompson was more
efficient offensively than it was the previous year.
There's a lot of things, both internally and externally, that
you feel like the pieces were there.
The execution wasn't there? The actual we're going to carry
this out and hit the shot. I don't know if that necessarily
changes too much, and maybe it's just a matter.
Or of more practice, more interactions more.
Here's what you have to do at this time.
In this situation. It does take a while to get
players to think along those lines to get rid of the ball
when you've got the shot as opposed to waiting and looking
around understanding the difference between those things
and even something. As Elemental as the
pick-and-roll, which we finally saw start to work towards the
tail end of this last year. I just, I think the big question
ultimately for the offense. Is whether the missed shots and
the droughts offensively are something that can be addressed
through schematics and through training, or whether that is
something where there's just, there's a fundamental issue with
the players and their ability to execute and I don't know what, I
don't totally know what the answer that is.
I think it's probably an execution issue rather than a
plans issue. That's not to say that the plans
couldn't be better in a lot of spots, but I do think that a
whole nother Of working on execution.
Probably gets this team. A lot closer knowing that last
year, most of their execution time and practice was spent on
defense and we certainly saw some improvements in that area.
Not just collectively, but also individually.
Yeah, I mean, the only trouble is you have like, you know, you
did lose your best, you know, statistically best three-point
shooter and Parker Stewart, you know, you're going to be based
you hoping, you know Xavier Johnson keeps shooting at the
level he is it is. I know you talked about in the
Other pods like it's baffling that out how bad we've just
gotten as a program. And getting three point
shooters. I did do that research.
I was looking at Armand Franklin and what providence Al Durham
Alger up. Yeah, like I look at their
numbers at how like they didn't get that much better when they
left it just it's wild. The three-point shooting.
How are your board? Just not able to get it but it's
well, that's right, cooking stuff.
That's the word. A lot of the recruiting.
It's weird. It's like Armand, Franklin's a
great example. I mean Armand, Franklin was a
pretty good three-point shooter for Indiana.
His sophomore year shot 42%. We thought gosh, that's a big
loss. He shot. 29.6% Virginia this
year. You know, Al Durham was was a
pretty good three-point shooter for Indiana All Things
Considered. I mean, it wasn't a great
exhibition, but he was in the 38 percent range his last two years
that I was shocked. 23% at Providence.
This last year. There's a lot of things.
That go into all of this. And the one thing that's hard
for me and you, and I think anybody watching IU is, how do
you analyze? What is Woodson?
And what is Woodson's approach? And what is the overall way that
this team is playing like, how much of that is just latent in,
what's been built up and what people have known versus?
What is an artifact of the new system in the new approach to
things. I don't think we know that yet
one season is not enough of a Ample size, to be able to say,
for sure. It's why we were so patient on
Archie, because we looked at it was like, well, we knew the
talent level had dipped. So it's like, you got to give it
two or three years to figure it out, and make sure that this
isn't working. And then I think everybody
figured out that it wasn't working with Woodson and I know
everybody's impatient, but I saw enough positives on defense,
that makes me think. All right, give them a year on
offense. I think they'll figure that out
too, but we'll see. I could be wrong on that.
Yeah. Yeah, well, but the other thing
too is, you know, he has a full off season this year as an
office and he has his whole staff.
I mean, that's the thing is, you had guys like, I'm not saying
Pfeiffer motto. We're bad or good but they were
not Woodson's hires like that is definitely what I take from this
offseason is this is now Woodson's program.
Like now he has the keys, he is in control this program making
the tournament. I think allowed him to take some
of that control and it's you know, it's It is a good thing.
But like it's, you know, again when we hired cream, he brought
his whole team and we hired Archie.
He brought his whole team in it's bizarre to hire Woodson
back. Hey, you don't get to of the,
the off, the Accord are spots and the basketball off spot,
will hire those on our own and you'll get, guys, you can meet
on, you know, first day of work. So this is this is his program.
It is his now and you know, we will see where it goes, but I'm
with you. There was enough, positive on
the ending. I'm trying to stay positive
because it's yeah. There's been a lot of what you
could perceive as bad news. But in the end, none of it.
Is that bad me Fitness. He's the only one that's a
little bit of like I wasn't expecting him to transfer, but
you know, people transfer people decide to go for a bunch of
different reasons, you have some transfers and then, you know,
the coaches, those things leaving is, you know, it is
normal business. And like I said, if we win
games, none of this is gonna matter now.
No, I mean most of the external or the side drama tends to bleed
out whenever there's something better to pay attention to.
And there just hasn't been we need more of that.
So let's let's get more of it. Into the system, please.
I got one more thing. I know you're tight on time.
Yeah, but just a I've heard this in a couple different places,
you know, we had a and I want to get your thoughts on the st.
Peter's beat of Purdue and we've talked off the pot.
I want to get it on pod to which is just just fantastic.
But you know, the Big Ten doesn't win a title again.
I heard it on a couple of Indiana pods, you know, what's
the problem? And I'm as guilty as anybody
else. Like I've I talk to Jess settles
about it. Like, you know, is it
officiating? I think there's some of those
things. I would just say a bit of a
scarecrow argument. You know, the last couple years
have not been good. But there's a great article on
538. I recommend you go check it out.
It's called where to the big Ten's March magic go but you
know from 2000 2019 the Big Ten had 16 teams, make the final
four of the most of any conference 48.
Sweet 16s, which was just too shy the acc's 50.
So it's you put the most teams in the final four for 19
straight years. A lot of it and I hate to just
kind of push it away, but it's like a lot of it's just Just,
you know, you have some bad games.
You have some bad matchups, like if any one of those if Michigan
beats Louisville, we're not having this discussion.
Like any one of those games. Go a different way.
And Michigan State cash was one of those in like, we're not
having any of these discussions. We've been a really good league
for a long time. I do agree.
The officiating doesn't help us in the end.
I think the way these teams are constructed, but when people are
like, oh, we need more high level Talent.
It's like dude, three to four of the top 10 picks in the NBA
draft. The Big Ten players like we have
top level Talent, we have top. All coaches.
I'm not sure. We have top-level officials.
But I do think this idea of what we have now.
Even want to 22 years. Like we've got to you know,
we've got to change everything up.
It's like, all right, the last two years has not been good.
But if you make the bar like making the most final fours,
we've done that like making the most sweet 16 s where s the
country doing that like you're setting the bar at only one team
gets to do it every single year. So just throwing that kind of
counter argument to a scarecrow argument out there.
No, I mean, look, there's something to be said for that.
It hasn't been a complete wash. I mean, but it's it's irksome
when the Big Ten with all of its financial resources and all of
its Brands isn't able to win a title.
When the titles, what matters. Yes.
The final four is absolutely matter certainly, but if all
you're doing is getting final fours.
While the ACC or the Big 12 or the SEC, or winning the national
championships, you're going to be perceived, you know, however,
unfairly is it conference that just can't get it done?
And I do think that if you look over the history, the teams that
have made, Made the final four have been teams that are
comprised in a way. That is somewhat similar to what
you see every year out of the top, ACC teams teams with a lot
of high level Talent, that's athletic.
That's offensive. Oriented the generally play at a
faster pace. And that is something I think
that doesn't really mesh. Well.
And I talked about this on the, the senior counsel podcast
earlier last week. It's not something that mesh is
particularly well, Well with what wins you games in the Big
10, you know, that having that like the if you think about the
Villanova, we also may be awesome more teams with, you
know, five level 1 infractions and FBI investigation, but you
know, I mean maybe but let's not kid ourselves about the Big Ten
being innocent on that front, you know, I mean, you know, the
the reality is when the best of the Big Ten in the final four
has met up again. Best of these other conferences,
they've lost. And that is a problem because we
can talk about final fours. All we want is like, what we're
better than the Pac-12. And it's like, well, I would
hope so. But you know, the reality is the
Big Ten much like in football. The Big Ten wants to be judged
on championships, the same way that the SEC does in football.
The same way that the ACC does in basketball.
The difference is those conferences are winning
championships and the Big Ten is not and you know, as much as
people want, you know, you can we use the 20-year Mark as
Michigan. State won the title in 2000.
Michigan. State was the only top seed left
standing that year. It was a very lucky break of the
bracket for them. And look, there's other teams
that have had lucky breaks of the brackets, but it's, it's
gotten to the point where when you think about the last time,
the Big Ten was really able to claim.
Without question that it was the top league in the country
because they were winning titles and they had a bunch of of
top-level athletes every single year.
I just It's it hasn't resonated enough or it hasn't resulted in
enough actual championships to ever feel like you can make the
argument that the Big Ten is clearly the top League.
I mean, this year that was supposed to be it was a really
deep League team. Didn't even get a team out of
the sweet 16. And you think about that
Villanova game. I've learned of a Kansas game in
the final for the difference, in the way that that game was
played and officiated where there was what one or two fouls
called in the first. Ten minutes of each half and
then you compare that to what you see in a Big Ten game.
I think certainly something needs to be done, just to
acclimate the team's to what it's like to play at a high
level where athleticism and skill are more important than
physicality. That's that, that is fair before
we wrap up just because short schadenfreude is fun.
You and I talked about it, but you know, this was a 20, you
know, 15 years you're kind of building up to this team at
Purdue and One of the best teams Matt Painter has had a bracket
that breaks. I mean, could not have broken
better for any team to be like, hey number one seed, got number
two, seed and gone like it. Is there outside of them.
Be like, hey, we're just going to move the regional the Mackey.
I'm not sure what else? They could have done the made
this better and you don't get it done.
It's not, it's a close game. No one gets injured.
You know, wow. Like that.
That is hitting a brick wall. I know it's you.
Hey, I, you'll even get out of the, you know, there.
Their game against st. Mary don't care watching, Pretty
loose like that is awesome. This is worse than the loss.
We had the Syracuse because at least Syracuse the four seed
they made the final four. And you know, I don't know, man.
That is that is a tough tough L to throw on there.
I mean, it's all the things I just said about the Big Ten
Purdue is the Big Ten in miniature that they are.
They all the stuffs on paper, the talent, the accomplishments,
everything is there. Except they don't win titles.
And you know what's fascinating to me about this Purdue team is,
this was clearly from a an overall Talent perspective.
This should have been the the season that Purdue was able to
win the conference title. The, the Big Ten tournament that
and the national championship should have loosened able to get
to the final four as you mentioned.
You know, they play of that. Yeah, they got none of it.
And there's no real explanation as to why for the amount of
talent that that Purdue team. Team had to not play better
defense and to put themselves in a position where they would play
a team that got completely outclassed an out talented by
North Carolina and Purdue who, you know, of course, earlier on
in the season, beat that North Carolina, team on a neutral
floor. The fact that Purdue was an able
and Matt Painter, wasn't able to figure out a way to game plan
effectively against st. Peter's, despite having two guys
above 610, who have very little Double scoring.
It's, it's hard to take anything away from that other than,
that's why Purdue has the reputation that it has.
And there's not a lot else. You can say, as much as Purdue
people might want to get mad about that.
As much as people might Point their fingers and say, will you,
I, you fans have no room to comment.
Look, you, you have to be able to judge a program by itself.
And, you know, produce constant thing is they're they're tired
of living in the shadow of, I you, but you don't get out of
the Shadow unless you win something.
And you at least get to the final four and it looked like it
was a affair complete that they were going to get there and they
couldn't get their. So I take a great amount of joy
out of it because I got you just you get very tired of hearing
about Purdue and you know how supposedly Superior that program
is and what they've built and they still when the rubber meets
the road have been incapable of doing it.
And there's been a variety of reasons for that over the last
40, some years, but it's always the Same result.
And I think that's hilarious. Yeah.
No, I mean, and they are they're a great consistent Big Ten team.
Yeah, like they, they could put up 20 23 wins a game a season.
It's how I will end my buddy, Dan.
I like, I was calling him before the sweet 16 lamenting like,
damn, like Purdue's going to the final four.
I guess it's happening this year and he's like, hey is that
painters? Killer coach like?
Yeah. He's like you'll be all right.
Yeah. No, I mean and then after the
game Barkley was like, that was the worst coach game Versailles,
Barton was Ask you like I don't know what the hell they were
doing. I mean, it's like Barclays
reaction to Kansas in the first half of the national title game,
which was almost as bad and would have been given given the
relative, you know success level of both of those teams in this
year. That wouldn't have been as bad
certainly as Purdue losing to st.
Peter's. But it still would have been
pretty bad. Yeah.
I don't know. I don't know how you come back
from. This is painter.
Like what I mean? Could he have success down the
road? Is he going to continue to
recruit? He still relatively young?
I'm sure. But it's kind of like we're Gene
Katie. Not after about you know, 15
years into his career at Purdue. You're just like, all right,
Jane you've had Glenn Robinson. You've had Melvin McCants and
Everette Stephens. You've had all of these really,
really great players. You've had teams that have won
multiple Big Ten titles. You can't get to the final four
like at some point. It's not, it's not bad luck.
And yeah, so that's it's going to be interesting to watch
because they're not going to be as good next year.
And it's as we know as I, you fans, it's incredibly rare.
To get the types of rosters together.
That had the offensive Firepower.
That, that Purdue team did. It's amazing, that they kind of
pissed it away. That is, that is what I think
for a lot of people was the end of created.
I you like that team that lost to Syracuse.
I think for a lot of us realize like that team was so perfectly.
Constructed like that team, you know, I think we would've been
okay losing in the final four to another one.
See, but like, we just, it's like we were better than that.
Sit, that Syracuse team. I think that was, that was the
end of really, to me like that was the start of the end of
crean and This could be the same thing for painter.
And yeah, I think the difference is I you fans have ridiculously
high standards and for Purdue fans.
I mean, are they going to do better than Matt Painter?
Probably not. I mean like it's hard to
Envision. Another coach being able to come
in and have the level of success that painter has had its not to
say that a coach probably couldn't do better with the
talent, but I don't know what other coaches going to come in
in that environment and get as much out of that program as
painter has because as much as Purdue fans want to argue to the
contrary, it's just it's not a national championship caliber
program. It's it never has been.
I mean least I can maybe it was in the 20s and early 30s, but
that was that was a hundred years ago at this point.
So yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm tired of talking about
Purdue already. So anyway, I know that'll wrap
us up this time. We're going to do more will have
an upcoming podcast. We will chat with you folks
about some things will tackle some questions back with great.
All right, Scott. Good talking to you.
Thank you to Scott for writing me for that relatively brief,
but inspired or at least relatively fast conversation.
Perhaps inspired is going a little bit too far, but we had
some fun with that one. It was good to talk with Scott
again about what's going on with IU basketball.
And as we try, this is always a rough time of year in terms of
trying to figure out. All right, you know, when is the
season officially over, when do we officially get to the
offseason? And you know, with the recent
news, of course that Trace Jackson Davis is going to test
the NBA draft Waters, that actually came out after the
podcast that Recorded, we didn't I decided.
Well, you know, everything that we said is still quite pertinent
because frankly tjd announcing that he was going to test the
draft Waters, but retain eligibility changes.
Nothing about the conversation that we just had.
So still a lot unsettled for Indiana in terms of its roster
composition. You know, like I said, we're
recording this or I'm recording this section on the 11th.
By the time you hear this three or four people could have left,
or we might discover that everybody's coming back.
It's really hard to say. At this point.
So just buckle up and enjoy the ride and understand that this is
happening across college basketball at this point.
So we'll see what happens with Indiana and where everything
finally lands, my thanks to my partner Scott Caulfield and my
thanks to all you folks for listening in throughout the
course, not just of this podcast, but over the course of
this entire basketball season, my thanks to home-field apparel
and to our friends in the back home network.
We will be back with more podcasting coming up later on
this week or next week, depending on How news warrants
for Crimson cast on Galen? Clabby will catch you folks on
the flip side, bring back the Bison song, everybody.