You're listening to the back home network presented by home
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got Caulfield joining you here 23rd of October.
Pockets of Indiana. Football today is the Hoosiers
come off a loss last night or yesterday afternoon.
I guess it was to the Rutgers Scarlet Knights.
So we're going to talk through what that meant, how that
happened, and where we're at with everything and see where it
lands us, I guess. But first, just a reminder, that
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Scott, welcome back. Scott has been in much nicer
surroundings than Indiana over the course of the last week is
he was on vacation. How are you doing my friend?
I'm doing great. Yeah, we're in the Caribbean
Turks and Caicos it was amazing. My lips got sunburn which kind
of sucks but no it was, it was fantastic.
And yeah I had a fun time. YouTube TV is not available in
Turks and Caicos FYI. So I was not able to watch the
IU. Maryland game, does keeping
track of the score at dinner and it was like going great and my
God looks like we're going to win and then, you know, I see to
leave 0 and goes out and like all right, well this the sounds
pretty good form as you can tell with the score and then it's
like I put the Away like have a nice, you know, shrimp cocktail
and watch it, and it's like oh we lost and so it's like I I've
actually not watched much of the game.
I used your pre-review podcast with Griffin is kind of my way
of figuring things out and I have a lot of thoughts to pull
from that one, but yeah, it was overall is a great, absolutely
awesome vacation. Good.
Well, we're all we know you needed a break so, you know,
it's, it's, I'm glad that as it is weird, you know, I told you
in the last One coming back. Like I we potted after the
Michigan game and then we haven't done as like it was only
like, you know, 10 days since we've last talk but it's like I
feel like we'll know where Seasons gonna be when I get back
because we'll have Maryland and Rutgers in our rearview mirror
and feels like I know where Seasons going now.
Not good. Let's go back to Turks.
Yeah, no kidding. It's not the things are not
going. Well as I think everybody is
painfully aware at this point. But yeah, let's talk about it in
the air. Now one in four on the season in
the Big Ten, three and five, overall, they lose their fifth
consecutive game on the season. And, you know, we talked back in
September, and I think many people thought we were being
alarmist. About the need to take advantage
of winnable games because there weren't going to be a lot of
other games that you could count on Indiana.
Winning if they didn't pick up, you know, the the low-hanging
fruit I'm not going. Say the easy games, but the
stuff at the bottom of the tree, well, they've now essentially
failed to pick any of that fruit.
And now they find themselves staring down the barrel of the
we do, or maybe the gauntlet. I guess you could say of the
rest of the Big Ten season with a quasi reward against a Stoke
contending. But not as great as people were
thinking, they were Purdue team now that people thought pretty
was great, but they were, you know, going into yesterday if
they'd beaten Wisconsin, would have really been in a great
position. Indiana's in real real trouble
and we have to talk not just about what happened yesterday.
We'll talk a little bit about it.
I mean I think everybody got a chance to see the game but
programmatically this this program feels drift in a way
that is kind of hard to Fathom given where it was just a few
years ago and what the trajectory of the program up
here to be and it just doesn't appear that that's actually
reality. So Scott, let's Talk about the
Rutgers game first, so Indiana comes out and returns a kick for
a touchdown which I honestly, I'm sure it's happened with IU
football, Scott, but I couldn't remember the last time it had
happened, any kind of positive special teams play outside of
like a field goal. Always seems like, just
something that happens to other kids, but never happens to us.
And then it happens in this and it was almost, it might have
been the easiest looking kick return I've ever seen.
College football, I think they got one arm on Jaylen Lucas
before he busted out to the side.
There was just nobody there and you know I two things came to
mind immediately. It's like wow, this might be
Indiana's day after all and be while Rutgers really looks
awful, like that. Like if that's the effort that
Rutgers is going to give, this is going to be a cakewalk to the
point that I might have hopped on some live, betting apps, and
dropped some extra cash on Indiana, that puts possible.
And then, of course, Indiana comes out.
They Yeah, really good. Defensive possession to start
Rutgers first drive. I mean, you know, it would have
been nice to have not given up the first down, but they stopped
them on the second series and then Indiana comes out puts this
long drive together, pull stuff out.
We haven't seen before there's option plays and there's good
like timing routes and you know, they're finding open, guys, in
the flat. And they're running for 15 yards
and it's like, hey Indiana put it together.
Yes, it's Rutgers. It's a weaker competition, but
Rutgers looked Ed like they looked like they were just not
going to show up and this is going to be one of those weird
games that you look back on 20 years later and I got in the at
11:59 23. You know, just it had that Vibe.
At least that's how I felt where were you as all of that was
happening in terms of your mentality, very similar.
Yeah, I can't remember the first time we had a kickoff return to
start the game, right? It's just like, wow, that I've
seen it against us, many times. Not, not us doing it, and then.
Yeah, you know, the first He Is We Hold Rutgers you know do a
six play Drive, stop them, we score, it's 14-nothing.
And yeah the way the plays were going you just had I remember
thinking to myself like all right well this is why Rutgers
is the worst team in the Big Ten like they look really really
bad. You are run, is able to you were
actually able to get some movement on the run and get some
positive yardage and I we had a wild stretch.
We got back from vacation Friday night at 1:30 and we had a
wedding in Fort Wayne last night.
So I'm like watching the first half and I'm kind of like, all
right? And Rutgers scores which is also
like at the time. It's like did he get his foot
down? Like I'm not sure.
It's like, it's like we're okay. Just using our timeouts
willy-nilly but like any kind of review.
It's like we'll just, you know, don't worry about that.
We don't need to review a possible touchdown, but it's
like I left the first half going getting ready for the shower and
like being like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna be fine
like this. This Rucker's does not look as
good as we do, and I'll watch the second half in the car on my
iPhone. And and then we just think it's
not, it's like it all stopped. And this goes to something that
I'm going to hit on later. But you know, something we've
talked about here many times, something you and Griffin
mentioned in the, in the review of the Maryland game.
We make no adjustments or other teams make adjustments that we
can't adjust against. This is a common theme where
we've looked pretty good. In first half of games, you
played Michigan really well, we played the games that we've
lost. We've actually The first half's
pretty well, we played Nebraska pretty well and then it's the
only played Cincinnati. Okay and then it's like the
second half. We just we seized up and it
can't just be that we suck. We're not able to do anything
because the first five minutes the game we were able to do a
lot of things. This is one of the points of
like a real problem. With this team is we are getting
out adjusted every single game and it's frightening.
It's different when it's Michigan.
You're like okay they have better seconds.
Ring players they have maybe a you know more experience
coaching staff. This is Rutgers this is anyway.
So yeah it's the last thing I will say about this is listening
to your preview to the game, you know, you're kind of dancing
around how, you know, Rutgers really doesn't have a
quarterback. That is you'll Big Ten Ready or
Not a Big Ten player. I'm thinking like wasn't been
trailed the same quarterback who put 33 on us last year.
I was like, oh yeah, he was, it's like he wasn't supposed to
play like this, they didn't announce he was supposed to play
until yesterday morning. I mean, I That so pardon me.
I was looking at the everybody, the, I think Federal had passed
by the great job on that mispronunciation, you were up to
two so far with you today. It's great.
But you look at the passing numbers have been Evans, Simon
pretty much the whole year you know who was a sophomore
quarterback? And so this was vegetables,
first I think full-time start and it wasn't like he played
great IV. Let's, let's not kid ourselves.
I mean he was Was 12 of 24 for 113 yards on the game is qbr was
33.5. But point taken certainly at
least they had a guy who's played both varsity football and
varsity basketball in the Big Ten.
I mean that you know Wonder Indiana couldn't compete against
that. But no, the game was it was
really, you know, and we've talked about this phenomenon
with I you many times before we've unfortunately done so many
of these. Game podcasts that, you know,
you there comes a moment in an IU game where you suddenly
realize that the moment, whatever the moment is in the
moment, just could be like going out to get like milk at the
grocery store. The moment is too big for the
team and the coaching staff. And, you know, to me it was it
was, you know, that was the clarity I guess kind of came
when Rutgers came down and drove down the field at the beginning
of the second half. And yes, they only kicked a
field goal. But it was like clear at that
moment that it was just a matter of time before Rutgers was going
to take the lead and Indiana wasn't going to have it answer
and I don't even necessarily think that the defense played
that badly in this game it's this was one of the the defense
has better games. In fact if you look at Pro
Football Focus it was their best game of the season in terms of
grading. You know, the next closest good
game that they had was Nebraska which that wasn't that great of
a game either. But You know, Indiana did a good
job of containing the passing game.
Not that there was much of a passing game to contain, but
they didn't. It wasn't, you know, as much as
there were some bad individual moments.
It wasn't like Indiana's. Secondary was just getting
shredded, and it really wasn't even like Indiana was getting
shredded on the ground. I mean, they let up three point.
Eight yards, a carry, which was not, you know, I mean, that's,
that's pretty good if you can hold a team under four yards.
A carry, that's a good thing, you know?
But the problem was they just couldn't get off the field.
You know, they couldn't put themselves in a position where
they were, you know, able to just like, stop drives for
Rutgers or if they did the offense then couldn't turn
around and do what they needed to do on offense to keep the
defense off the field. And so I think what was actually
a relatively good defensive game was undone by the fact that the
offense let them down and the defense got tired well we've
been sick. It's like it I know it's a very
doing this over. No, no, I'm not not what you're
saying. It's like, you look at the drive
chart, every game. You look at the drive, chart,
Lucy? Wait, wait, Scott Scott.
We have a segment for this, what is it?
Okay, come on. You see.
This was your big, you're big stick, like two years ago, the
recite the drives thing. Remember try to block it out,
right? Everyone.
Get your shot glasses. Ready?
Don't let me sit on, WE punch hole because you will die.
Yes. This restart recite the drive
chart got, it's so tiring. It's like so first one to touch
down 11 plays, 91 yards, that's a functional Drive 4 minutes and
20 seconds, the rest of hard drives, this is not even weird.
I've been doing second half step, just to rest the game
punt, punt, punt punt half. Well, thank God for that punt
punt punt field goal attempt. What you missed interception
Punt. And most of those were three
plays, 40 yards or less it is this is actually I think more
informative. So yeah, give them credit for
the 11-play 91 yard. Drive at the beginning.
But then it goes eight plays, 22 yards, punt for plays nine
yards, put 3-play 0, yd putt, six plays 28 yards punt, three,
plays 17 yards end of half where I think there were three draw
plays called in quick succession.
There three plays - two yards pump to start the second half,
three plays 0, yd punt, three plays, five yards punt, five
plays 19 yards, missed field goal the a 52-yard field goal,
which included a draw. Call on Third and 16.
If you'll remember to plays - three yards, pick six going the
other direction, three plays - four yards, eight plays 70
yards, I guess they wanted to book end things properly, with
some nice drives. And then the end of the game
that is really bad Scott. Like and and I think it's worth
pointing out, but you can't see their Galen.
You're playing Ohio State here like a really good team.
You're at the Horseshoe. Oh no!
Wait you're playing? It's like, like, you're playing
rockers a team that, like, by the way, we heard a thousand
times, the broadcast hasn't won a home game in, like, in the Big
Ten in a thousand days. So, I'm going to start cussing,
like, I'm just letting everybody know, like, it's probably gonna
fly out a little bit here and, and I want to thank 10, get home
game in years. So it's not like, you're playing
a bridge too far. Like, I mean, you know, I'm
scattershot in here, but, you know, we look at 2019 2020.
I'm going to go. I want to go to this aberration
talk in a But what made me a 20-19, what made that year
special was we 15 Big 10 games but we won four of them in a row
against Rutgers Maryland, Nebraska and North Western, and
then we beat Purdue. It's not like that year.
I'm, and I'm, that was a good year, but it's not like that
year. We beat Ohio State, Michigan,
Michigan, selling all the bitching.
We do about these tough teams, like, know, if you can beat the
teams at your level and below your level, you can have great
Seasons like guess what we played Nebraska.
We played Maryland. Play drucker's this year like
these are all teams that we could be beating you know and if
you beat these teams you win five, big ten games, you go to a
nice we went to a Florida bowl game that year without beating
any of the teams that are boogeymen in the Big 10 East.
It's like a tough tough schedule.
So it's it's wild that that is the drive chart for a game at
Rutgers where there's like six thousand people in the stands
and it is just mind-boggling if that's that drive chart.
Honestly looks like it could have been against you in
Michigan or Ohio State. Well, and I think it's it's even
worse when you think about this is a, it's, this isn't a Rutgers
team that in their last four games had scored 16 10, 10 and
13 points. They get 24 points against
Indiana. So I mean, it's not even like
they, you know, I mean, that doesn't have a huge amount of
points. But for Rutgers that's like
scoring 45, you know, to be able to put that many points up on
the Board and yeah, you hit on something that I wanted to talk
about. So we'll go ahead and transition
to that which is real quick. I will just say I joked early on
that like our goal as a team should be get out of the Matt,
Millen color commentary. God, think we need to move up
and you mentioned the field goal miss.
Well first off its like he's comparing the Rutgers running
back to Derrick Henry. It's like can you find a
slightly different cop from like a Heisman Trophy winner and a
lead possible MVP like Rutgers does not.
Have that kind of talent nor do we, but that missed field.
Goal the 53 yarder, I forgot who was doing the play-by-play, and
he's like, a kick is up and on its wide left, three-second
pause, and then Bill and comes in.
He missed it because I had decided to go out
to watch the game. So I was at the Here in
Bloomington and I couldn't really hear the commentators.
It was, it was like a conversation like four tables
over. That was that kind of volume
where you could, it would pop up occasionally only and every time
it pops up. I'd be like man.
I'm glad I can't hear anything that's being said on this
broadcast. Yeah, we really I think it's
right now. Indiana.
Absolutely needs to get out of the Matt Millen broadcast slot.
It's about as bad as it gets and it should not be to get naked to
a boy like that to be our marketing for next year.
Like let's get out of the map Mill and Spotlight but I got you
that we're on the right move. But I think you hit on the
reason why they're not getting out of the mat, no one spot
which is for all the complaints legitimate complaints about
Indiana being in the Big Ten East and having to play Ohio
state every year and having to play Michigan every year and
having to play Michigan State every year Penn State, whoever
the reality is, those complaints are largely kind of eliminated
when you can't beat Maryland. And Rutgers the two teams that
are kind of, they share your genetic material in terms of
football. All they're not recruiting at
high levels, they're not coached by Geniuses.
Although I think Greg Schiano is a really good coach there.
These are the teams that if you are serious, about yourselves
and serious about being a good football program, you have to
beat those teams at least two out of every three times, and
now we've seen Indiana lose two games in a row to Maryland, two
games in a row to Rutgers and I think what's frustrating to me.
Umi, is, you look at those two programs and, you know, Mike
locksley has, you know, he's been there for a while now, but
it's not like that was a football program that you looked
at 34 years ago and said, wow, they're going to be ahead of
Indiana with the trajectories like Indiana.
I would argue had edged. At least slightly ahead of
Maryland in terms of what they were able to do on the football
field and now it looks like Marilyn has shot.
Buy them entirely Maryland, sitting at 6 and 2 on the season
they're three and two in the Big Ten Conference there they're not
only on their way to a bowl but they could be on their way to
you know, like a like a the fifth or sixth bowl that the Big
Ten hands out Rutgers with that was a complete dumpster fire of
a program, they had zero Talent, they had zero motivation, they
they were not able to get out of their own way and then Schiano
comes in and takes them to a bowl last year.
Now granted, they were were five and seven, but they still went
to a bowl last year. And I don't think they're very
good this year. Therefore, and three, this might
be the last game that they win, but they won the game and they,
you know, they managed to beat Indiana.
They've beaten Indiana, two years in a row, and you just
have to look at that. And you have to say, Tom Allen
has been here since December of 2016 and to to be in a position
where you've now lost twice in a row to the two teams that you
cannot afford to lose. If you were going to be
competitive, just raises a tremendous number of questions
about where this program is, you look around the conference.
It's like, if you can't beat Rutgers and you can't beat
Maryland. You're essentially the worst
program in the conference, perhaps, with the exception of
Northwestern right now. And that's to me pretty
unacceptable, given that you are six full seasons into the reign
of the head coach. Like that has to be the bare
minimum. If you're going to be at Indiana
like, okay, we're going to employ.
You and we're not expecting Miracles.
We're not expecting Rose Bowls, but you got to beat Maryland.
You got to be truckers. I mean, that's, that's like you.
There's no way around that Scott.
Totally agreed listening to your Maryland, postgame with Griffin,
you're talking about Illinois and the turnaround they had.
And you both kind of said, like, they hired Bielema and you both
match like, well, you know, I think BLM has a good coach and
then, you know, I, I hear it's funny listening to the, to one
of the post game that, you know, not doing a week of postgame and
then kind of stepping back and taking it.
Bottom and listening to it from afar so to speak.
You know I hear a lot of the same things you want are talking
about but you're kind of dance, not intentionally dancing around
it but you're you know saying you know this team has you know
bad scheme adjustments during the game.
The team looks undisciplined at times and then you know we
talked about the development of the the lack of development of
some of these players. It's like those are all bad
code. That's all signs of a bad
coaching staff. Like and Tom Allen seems like a
nice guy. I'm going to be rough here.
This is a results-based business but it just is.
There are big Dollars around because it's a results-based
business. It's about wins and losses.
That's what we're here to do. And, you know, it's funny.
I see some things on Twitter. I'm not going to call people
out, but, you know, one person tweeted out who been tweeting to
the Crimson cast account. But, you know, IU has fake fraud
fans who expect the world while giving the program nothing but
grief and bitching. Every single time something goes
wrong. It's like like, you would.
I have said, I Want to be respectable, right?
I just like to not be the worst team in the Big Ten.
I'd love to maybe have a shot at going to a bowl every so often.
And I also just gonna go on a rant here.
I also get really tired of this. Like, what about 2019?
What about 2020 like those years happen?
It's like yes they did. But when you look at the history
of IU football, the last 20 years last 40 years, like you
could say the same thing about IU basketball.
What about 2009-2010? Like we suck those years like
okay, those were a beret. Actions.
Like that's the definition of an aberration normally IU
basketball is good. It's not very good years where
we go over in the Big Ten and basketball are minimal in in
football. It's like 19 and 20 are starting
to look like aberrations. And for people who are like,
well, he can come out and did that.
It's like, okay, well, he's got to start fucking doing it very
soon again, because when you look at the history of IU
football, which is littered Litter with Bad seasons, coaches
that have Furs in the Big Ten followed up by a one-year season
with one big 10 win. There's not a lot of them.
Kevin Wilson. Did it his, he went over his
first year but then 12, Big 10 games.
His second year, going for an eight, oddly enough, Bill
Mallory book ended his career, he started his career over in
the Big Ten, went 17, the next year, but then did go to three
straight bowls and then he ended his career.
Oh, and eight and one in seven in the Big Ten and then was
fired. After everything he had done one
of the best coaches of the last 50 years was fired after going 0
and 8 and then one in seven. Well, Tom Allen, when towing
nine last year and is one, and for this year, and that, that's
the thing that I have to say, is for everybody, who's like, you
can't forget about twenty, twenty and twenty nineteen.
It's like I haven't those were great years but you cannot also
forget 2021 was an absolute dumpster fire of a season.
The likes of which Indiana football hasn't In, which is
saying a lot because Indiana football has had a lot of bad
here. So you can't just write that
off. And then, you can't just have
two years in a row, where you lose out in October, and
November, and just end the season with a complete dumpster
fire or shit show. So to speak.
And it's like, so next year, I don't know how.
I don't know, man. Like.
Well, nobody cares have to its, I don't know.
But it's like, yeah, go ahead. No.
I this is It's a real difficult. the thing to get your head
around, because I think a lot of people who have invested so
fully in the, how do I put this? A lot of people invest their
thoughts and their emotions in a coach as an avatar for the
program. Forgetting often times.
That those two things are actually separate, and I think
that you can, you can like the coach a lot from a personal
perspective. You also have to look at what
the coach is actually doing on the field.
And I think you, you know, this was something that was talked
about during the offseason and it would recommend everybody go
back and listen to that podcast you did with, with punt, John
punt. Because they talked about this,
it's you can say, look, clearly there, were there have been
accomplishments, but the flip side is, there's clearly a trend
downward in terms of how the program is, operating.
And I think that for so many people Who have, you know, so,
you know, quote-unquote hopped off the Tom Allen bandwagon.
It's because we've seen this movie before and what makes it
frustrating is, When you look at what's gone on since, let's say
since Bill winch was fired. And, you know, so take that 2010
season and look forward. Someone there was a there was a
Reddit comment last night I was reading that really summed it
up. Well you've watched I you kind
of Hit the nadir of the football program in the 2000s.
It was just weird to think about it.
Really, kind of hit it twice, it hit in the jury dinardo, period.
And then it hit it again with Lynch.
We're let's just couldn't win games in the conference and they
hire Wilson and Wilson wasn't perfect and they finish the
facility upgrades and you watch this, I you team kind of slowly
pull itself out of the muck and go from being a laughing stock,
type of team who wasn't competitive, who didn't play
complete games to a program. That was a, you know, they
weren't as good as the Mallory era teams, where, you know,
those teams were winning. Six, seven, eight games in a
given season, but they were, at least competitive in a lot of
games. The games were frustrating, but
they were entertaining. Ting.
And it felt like to some degree 2019 and to a lesser extent and
I know it sounds weird to say but like in terms of a full
season 2020, kind of that was the culmination of hey Indiana's
at this next level now and to watch Indiana tumble back down
to the point where they are arguably the worst or second.
Worst team in the conference is just, you know, for those people
that care about IU football, if you're going to give Tom On the
credit for 2019 and 2020. Like you said, who's who owns
20, 21 and 20 22 like it. Do we, you know, is that
decisions a get-out-of-jail-free card that applies for 10 seasons
because you get Indiana to the Outback Bowl or the Gator Bowl?
Is that how it works? That doesn't work anywhere in
college football, and I think that your, when you look at the
way that other programs, not just Illinois but Kansas state
is able to go out and find a guy that can come in and win some
games and, you know, you've found teams that aren't good
programs that aren't historically good.
They don't have to be historically, bad all the time.
You can go find people who can build infrastructure that allows
winning at a decent level. Maybe not the highest level but
that's six seven, eight win range that we've talked about
consistently and it's not like Indiana's like coming up.
Just short in these games where it's like man if they just had
One more player this year that it is a gradual D Evolution and
happened. Last year, it's happening this
year where the team has one good drive or they have a couple of
good series and that's it. And you know I mean like if the
Rutgers game went on for two more quarters, we were lost by
40. Yeah no it's true.
I mean the the momentum had gone exactly the opposite direction
and this is happening over and over again.
I mean, it's the, the fourth quarter struggles, the, the, you
know, they didn't have a bad first quarter in this game, but
they had a bad, everything else. They had a bad second quarter
and a bad third quarter in a bad fourth quarter.
And I think I talked about this about this on the preview
podcast, it's like this program seems to be incapable of
plugging a hole in the dam without three others springing
up and I'm sorry. That is an infrastructure issue.
That is an administrative issue. That is how the program is
built. I mean, I'm watching a lot of
the discussion right now is centered around.
Won't bail and will gosh, what bills offense?
Why are we running this fast tempo?
You know, it's not working Indiana's not scoring and it's
like there is no line infrastructure like the
offensive line actually had a fairly decent day to day.
And I say fairly because it's only in comparison to the games
that they've had up to this point and it's been terrible all
year and it was terrible all last year and hey it actually
wasn't very good in 2020 either but you had a generational for
Indiana at least quarterback in there.
That was able to make throws in spite of the lack of protection.
You haven't had a good running game and what three four years
this is there's no there's no basis.
There's no Foundation that this program is built on right now
except this vague concept of elio.
And I don't even like to talk about.
A lot of people throw it around is it's almost it's a kind of
insult at this point, for some people.
It's a rallying cry, for others, whatever you want to call it,
call it what it is, which is not a foundation upon, which you can
build a competitive Big Ten program year after year and
ultimately, you're right. It's a results-based business.
I would love Tom Allen to be successful.
Tom Allen is a great story, Tom Allen cells IU football really
well to the national press, which is something that Kevin
Owen Wilson could never do but Tom Allen has not demonstrated
an ability to consistently perform and look it's your 6 or
you know, I mean we're talking about its all-time Allen's
recruits its time Allen's coaches.
It's Tom Allens game plan and this program looks lost.
I mean, I was discussing with that.
Blast gun text yesterday is this season worse than 2011?
And, you know, 2011, was that season where they went 111 their
own? When was against South Carolina
state. It's you can't look at this
season and say well it's that bad, they're not going one and
eleven but that team competed that team was like three or four
plays away from being 4 and 8 or 5 and 7.
And that team basically had nothing on the roster.
This, this right now, as you said, I mean, over the course of
the last 21 games, Indiana is 5 and 16 over the course of the
last 14, Big 10 games. Indiana is one and 13.
And they're like, one and a half plays away from being 0 and 14
in Big 10 games over those last 14.
For those who are defending Tom Allen and saying, stay on the
Tom Allen bandwagon. I mean I'd love something to be
optimistic about but, you know, there's, there's no, you know,
there's like one or two really exciting, young players, who in
the transfer portal era. You can't even really get
excited about young talent because the chances of them
sticking around are not necessarily. 100%.
I mean as much as people talk about McCullough, it's like in
the next breath it's always like well and we'll see him at Notre
Dame next year or will see him somewhere else next year and
look, I don't know that. I don't know what that young
man's like mentality is, but it wouldn't be a surprise.
And I mean, the same thing could happen with Jalen Lucas for all
we know, there just doesn't seem to be an infrastructure, under
Tom Allen that's working and that is really hard to square
with the idea that we should be still.
Till like unquestioningly supportive of this coach who yes
accomplished a lot in 2019 and yes gave Indiana A Thrill Ride
of the season in 2020 but football is about consistency.
Like you have to be able to demonstrate something.
All we heard Scott over the offseason was last year, was the
result of bad apples. Last season was the result of a
bat, you know, bad chemistry bad mojo.
And that there were guys that gave up and that those guys were
supposedly gone. And we heard, oh, the team has
Focus themselves on being good this year and that's the tenor
of all the press conferences and everything.
And it it just kind of seems to miss the point which is that
this program is not capable of playing 60 Minutes of football.
And when you're losing to Rutgers and giving them their
first home, win in the Big Ten in 1800 days, or whatever it is,
when you are Nebraska's first win against an FBS opponent in a
year that doesn't happen to good teams that are unlucky, that
happens to bad teams and Indiana.
Is a bad team. There are bad program right now.
And the question is, how did it get to this point?
So a couple of all head-nodding agreement to all of that, I'm
going to pull a couple things out the back to the results,
based business for those who are, you know, saying we're
being too rough on Alan. It's like the first two years in
2017. And 2018 when they were 5 & 7 &
2 & 7, in the Big Ten, there is very few people out there
defending Allen this way, the Elio thing kind of got eye
rolls. It's like all right like this is
okay, another stupid slogan, like The only time that it
became like were in on this that when he became, you know, the
cover of Sports Illustrated, you know, the sports art, the Sports
Illustrated article, you know, come play for this man is when
he went six and one in the big tent.
It's like when there were results to go along with it,
that's when it all changed and then the result stopped.
It's like the results with with just a Leo and nothing else.
Like that's the issue to your larger point about last year.
Yes, the whole talk was like, oh it's a couple of bad apples like
The team didn't, you know, they got too big on the cells in the
offseason, you know, they didn't come in with the right
preparation. Like you pull away all of the
coach talked. This is a team built on culture,
as we've said many times it's built on Vibes.
However, you want to say but it's built on culture and Good
Vibes and Elio. It's not built on fundamentals
and doing the little things, right?
Because they don't do that. And it's very weird that last
year is being Step 2, bad culture when your entire program
is built on culture and it's not like it's your to where it's
like. I got to get Wilson's guys out
of here. It's like no that was year.
What seven like this is this is your program after the most
success and suddenly the biggest problem is what should be your
number one asset, which is culture fine.
What is it this year? Yeah, they're going to more than
likely lose out again and for everyone is like, Yeah, well
they, you know least they want a Big Ten game is here.
It's like the order of operations does matter.
The fact that that came at the first game of the season, like
it sucks a little bit for them, but it's also like it's, it's
going to be forgotten. It's like, I forgot like we're
going to lose out. Everyone's going to stop caring
and it's like what's what's, What's it gonna be this time?
Is it bad culture? Again, like you have more bad
apples, you got to get rid of and then it's like then it's
like, you know, that now it's a consistent problem.
Like now, next year we're not going to be good because All new
players like this treadmill has to stop.
And again, you talk about the dinardo era as this, you know,
awful moment in IU football, which I am not going to argue
with Denardo, never went over in the big tent dinardo.
Never had a two-year stretch where he won one big 10 game.
We're going to be there like by quit, you know, me, likely very,
very likely unless this team can turn it around and do something
that is going. NG to be shocking.
And that's kind of what, where they're at and what they're
going to have to do the last thing that I want to shoehorn in
here. Yeah, but I was thinking about
this morning as well, is I absolutely hate the narrative
that because we're going to stop here in a second, talk
basketball. But I absolutely hate the
narrative that, you know, I you fans once, you know, once the
calendar turns to october-november, like they
check out and they all they care about is basketball.
It's not that it Not that it's two separate things.
A, our basketball team has. Historically been competitive
fun to watch wins, fun games, and a good team to watch.
So there's that and therefore has a requisite, fanbase, that
follows it. There are fans like you and I
who like IU football and then I start to focus on IU basketball.
For a very simple reason, like this season students and fans
have shown time and time and time again, when there's a
little bit It to get excited about.
They will show up and support. I you football look at Michigan.
This year the the students were there, the fans were there, they
were excited, they will show up the fact that people check out
of football has nothing to do with basketball.
It has everything to do with us being a shitty football team
like people, newsflash for everybody out there.
People don't like watching shitty sports, teams go to go to
what Conseco Arab. Got us a game breaking Bridge
Fieldhouse. Yeah people are going because
it's kind of bitter. Like I want to see how bad it
can be to get Victory, won bin, Yabba.
I can pronounce that up your face, people know, but up your
faith of your faith. Try not to cuss too much.
Yeah, you failed. I failed it miserably but it's
like people don't like to see bad teams.
Well, look at the Sacramento, Kings, I like, you know, that's
what's going on here. Yeah, like people, it's that I
say, oh, if you are, you fans caret basketball.
I know there are A lot of football fans, they want to show
up. This team is just garbage, most
of the time at the end of the season and specifics,
particularly last year, and this year, and you're not going to
see a lot of fans in the stands. And you know what?
It's not the fans fault, it's the football team's fault like
it is and they suck and they need to do something different,
but more than likely, they're going to lose out.
We're going to hear a lot of rhetoric and I will end with
this, the athletic department, this whole program.
They boxed themselves into a very, very tough situation for
which I don't know what the answer is.
But I feel like you have to do something.
The trouble is you've already changed all your coordinators so
you can be pissed at well, but it's like, aren't we going to go
out and get another, you know, Walt Bell like this.
You're going to hire the best coordinator in the country.
What do you do in there? And you can't just go through
three Queen for coordinators in four years.
Nobody was happy with Hiller great.
But again, I don't think I don't think offensive line coach is
solving all of these problems. And, you know, let's put the Tom
Allen thing aside, whether You'd like him or don't like the way
that his contract is structured, he is not going anywhere
anywhere for next year. Yeah.
So you're going to have a team that loses out two years in a
row in October, and November a team that has won five games in
two years. And you're basically going to
have zero changes in the offseason.
Like I don't know what they can do and it's going to be weird to
be like you know normally that's where you have some wholesale
changes. They're not going to have any
changes so I don't know what they do.
That's the thing, I think the thing that's the most
Troublesome. And I think everything you said
is is absolutely on the mark in terms of the apathy towards the
program. People want a successful
football program and in the end this is what I keep coming back
to it. Like there's this fiction that's
existed for years that people didn't want to invest time and
effort in Indiana football because they were just like, I
don't know, intrinsically opposed to the idea of football.
It's not the case at all. It's because I you football.
Does not love you back. And, and what's weird is there's
all there's this Stockholm syndrome that occurs with the
hardcore, Indiana, football fans, and I think we've all
experienced those folks. Before, who there?
It's almost like a badge of honor that they root for the
football team. And as a result, They they look
at any positive result as like a reward to them and any negative
result that causes people to stop paying attention.
It's because those people aren't true believers.
It's almost religious in a way. Now look I've been going to all
you football games since the early 80s like this was my dad
brought me into this weird almost.
Like I don't know what you would call it.
It's like an old-school like you know polytheistic death cult.
You know, your it's it's it's not you know it's not one of
those that rewards you for things.
It's one that punishes you for not being a devout enough and
that's kind of how I feel about IU football like I shouldn't
have to sit through ten seasons of losing football to be
rewarded with like a seven and five season and a trip to
Jacksonville like that that that's not really a you lose.
Yeah. Where you lose.
That's not really a vacuum and adequate reward structure.
And I'm done mostly joking about all of that.
But my point is very straight forward on this.
I think there is a market for IU football to be good.
I do agree with you that. Unfortunately, I you boxed
themselves into a corner with Alan, I don't totally blame them
because if you look at when the extension was offered, it was
the spring of twenty one. You're coming off two of the
most successful seasons on paper and Indiana history.
You've got this Dynamic guy who a lot of the fanbase loves and
who other schools are probably token.
How about a little bit say hey that guy would work really well
here and unfortunately you bet the farm on that guy.
You you said we're going to put a huge amount of money down to
make sure that this guy goes nowhere because we're convinced
that this is Mallory 2.0. I mean that I don't even have
that might have been close to the actual wording of the press
conference. I know it was very similar to
the wording that Fred glass used when he hired Tom Allen
full-time. And look it was a Bad Bet at
this point it looks like a bad bet it looks like a very bad bet
because what we discovered in Immediately after that
extension, was that there wasn't a lot holding up the foundation
of the program and to have seen things devolved to this degree.
My big problem is it's not so much that I you had a talent
fall off or had an important coordinator leave but they've
got this burgeoning pocket of young talent that they're
bringing to the Forefront and it's just maturing look at who
Indiana's playing in these games.
Look at the the top Tacklers for Indiana football.
Like they're almost all seniors. Look at the offensive players.
I mean, outside of Jalen Lucas. It's transfers and it's you know
guys that have been in the program for a while.
There's not this huge reservoir of young Talent.
That's gradually learning how to play the game.
There's not this clearly defined system.
You know, there's not a long time coordinator or two, that is
just constantly pumping out. Top level people, you know?
Oh, and and you know, you and I have talked about this a lot
strength and conditioning wise, you know, they had two really
good guys guys that are now at, Alabama and Indiana, strength,
and conditioning looks awful. They're constantly, losing
people to injury. They're constantly again.
Like they were in the late 2000s and early 2010's.
They look like they don't measure up physically to the
teams that they're playing against and so my concern and
where I've really gotten to a point where it's hard to enjoy.
Even I thought of the future is, if this was supposed to be the
bounce-back year to last season, which was supposed to be the
huge aberration be well, gosh, we got a little too far out over
our skis and this is the recovery one.
This is a very similar season to last year, they're scoring
slightly better than they've exceeded the 100-point.
Mark in Big Ten play which they didn't do period last year.
They've done that through five games, but they're one in
foreign conference. And there's really I don't see
the foundation. For Success moving forward
because as you said, they hire a new offensive line coach, let's
get take a couple years to actually get guys up and running
and get the talent in recruiting wise.
You're not going to be able to do all that through the portal.
Tom Allen has taken over the defense and the defense looks
worse than it did last year. Like what's the fix there?
Is he going to fire himself as defensive coordinator again and
put somebody else in? I'm serious.
Like what's the answer there? Because if Alan who made his
bones as a defensive coordinator Fix the defense who's going to
come in and fix the defense. If Allen's insistent on, we have
to run my system. That's not gonna work, and I
think we've already seen Alan, can't do both jobs at the same
time. He tried it in 2017 and 2018 and
it didn't work and that's why he had to bring cane Wommack in to
take over his defensive coordinator.
I mean, it's, these are the kinds of things that really, I
think if you're paying attention, and you're not just
along for the vibe of IU football.
These are the The things that are making, most people not just
concerned, but utterly pessimistic about the current
regime. And, you know, the one thing
I'll say is that Alan is going to almost, certainly get a
couple years to fix it because this, the whole, the cold hard
facts of money. And I see people talking about,
well, if I, you, if I you Athletics really cared, they
make a change guys, 25 million dollars is a lot of money.
It's a lot of money. It is that is If of the
Athletics budget for the entire year and there's, I mean,
because of everything we've talked about, because of these,
huge deserts of lack of success with IU football over the
decades. There's not a reservoir of
donors that are going to come in and fix the problem that's been
created. And so you got to hope that Tom
Allen can fix it himself. And I hope he does because it's
bad for IU football as a program for them to be this bad for the
program to look this disorganized for them to not be
able to beat on. Nebraska or a Rutgers or a
Maryland to be in a position where they're one of the two
worst teams in the conference. It's bad for business.
I don't want to see it. I I wish Tom Allen would figure
it out but if he couldn't figure it out this year and at least
figure out ways to get his teams to play 60 Minutes against teams
that probably heard worse than they are from a talent
perspective. I don't know how that suddenly
gets fixed moving forward. Given as you said, they've
already changed a bunch of stuff and it hasn't worked.
Anyway, yeah, and I will know and I'll go on record.
I was on record at the time and I'm not going to, you know, go
back and change my feel like I thought the extension was the
right move at the time and I still think it was the right
move to give Alan that extension.
I do wish retrospectively, maybe there wasn't as much guaranteed
money. That's kind of what's putting
you in a tougher by now. But, yeah, I've made, Nebraska
didn't want to fire Scott Frost for a lot less money, and they
have a much bigger pool of donors and football, I mean, I
as much as I would love to spend all this money and I'm always a
little bit frustrated, that, you know, Indiana isn't going a
little bit harder on the, the coordinator side.
But yeah, 35 million dollars is a huge number 25 years but yes,
sorry 25 night it's a huge huge number that most schools would
balk at like even major schools like Notre Dame, Alabama, like
I'm not sure they would cover it and Indiana football definitely
isn't going to cover it, so they've got to figure this out.
But this is where I think you have to look up it.
You No this is where this goes to the entire athletic
department goes to Dolson. Like someone's got to figure out
and I say this not joking but you know maybe you need to hire
somebody to kind of be, you know, a coach helper or
something. Because right now, Alan feels
like he said, he's he doesn't seem to have any.
He doesn't seem to have any answers and this is probably the
thing answers. One in the thing that you
brought up that a lot of people don't get is like he's doing two
jobs, which were both full time jobs, he's defensive
coordinator, and head coach. There's a reason why both of
those jobs are paid, hundreds of thousands and millions of
dollars. Each they are big important
jobs, is not. Most people can't do this.
And you know, I'm big in be a fan, most teams that have a
general manager at a head coach that are the same person don't
work. It's just it's very tough to do
two of these jobs and he's not, he's not capable of doing it.
So you need, you need somebody to come in and help.
Give some answers help, provide some guidance, you know, Alan
has made it very clear. He's not, you know, very plugged
into what's going on the offensive side of the the ball
and so maybe you know as crazy as it sounds, maybe you do
change coordinators again. This offseason and maybe you go
out and you spent you try and find who are the absolute best
coordinators. But you've got to, you've got to
hit, I don't know again, I don't know.
But here's what I will say, you know, this is something that you
brought up which I think is interesting in, in regards to
last year, in regards to this year, you know, 2019 2020 that
the talk of those seasons is like we're moving up and we're
raising the floor. And then just go to and 10.
And now maybe, you know, 3 & 9. It's like, all right.
Well, I thought that the floor was at least us getting to a
bowl. And, you know, the thing that I
always said with the Archie Miller era in basketball, that
drove me nuts is, you can't underperform for two years, and
then just perform adequately and be okay.
It's like if you under perform at some point, you now need to
over perform. And so, now, we've now
underperform for two straight years.
Like it was not supposed to be Ballgame ballgame and then you
know yes and wins. Yeah so you know honestly I
don't know how you're going to get there but it's like you got
to make a bowl game. Next year like you've got to
make and not just squeak in six and six you might need to win
seven games. You know I was looking at it's
not the best analogy but I was looking at you know Pat
Fitzgerald at Notre Dame sorry at Northwestern because he kind
of has this cyclical like they're good and they're bad and
they're good but it's like when they're good first off the
Pretty good. They had a run, you know, in
2008. They go to five straight bowls,
they win one of them. But one of the years they go 10,
and 3, and when the Gator Bowl and then, yeah, they're five and
seven, five and seven, they're not that bad.
Then they go 10, + 3 7 + 6, 10, and 39.
If I mean, he went to Seasons five and seven and they went 10
and 3, it's like, that's kind of what I'm what we need to start
doing is like, if you have, if you stacked up now, five or six
really good recruiting classes and you have all this, you know,
great Elio. Sure.
Like I'm gonna be really pissed. If next year, they go like five
and seven, and it's like, oh well, you know, we're making
progress. Like, that's not what we were
sold. We were not sold a full-scale
rebuild after 2020. The idea was, we're on to bigger
and better things, which again, I'm not saying Big Ten title
like bigger and better was just like, we're going to make a bowl
every of Music City Bowl, every year, maybe win one of them.
And like so the idea of like next year, maybe we can get to
four wins and two Big Ten wins like that is not good enough.
Like at some point. Point you now have 2 over over
exceed, what you've done and I don't, I don't know how they get
there. It's funny.
You said hope twice. I'm going to say it twice here
to like, I hope they could figure this out.
But, you know, they have a, they've dug themselves quite a
whole and to your point. This is why there's not a lot of
Indiana football fans as it's just it's just bad bad times at
the last thing I'll say to your point like to there being an
appetite for football like when you and I grew up in the 80s in
This whole area was basketball and like this was a Pacers town.
I remember when the Pacers made the playoffs, for the first time
they were flying. A flag above the time bank one,
the bank one building, you know, it was all Pacers and the Colts
were an absolute afterthought. What changed?
That was consistent years of success and winning but and
Peyton Manning. But with that, this is now a
Colts town. This is now a football town.
The Pacers are the afterthought and it's all Based on results.
But there is an appetite for football and good football in
this area, but you need to have good football.
You can't just hope for it and then be too intense.
So yeah, I don't know, I'm I'm done.
Talking is not the on making any more points but now look I
finish this. The one thing I will say to
close up. It's like there's there's
nothing about Indiana, that makes it impossible for it to be
at least, decent at football as a program.
And to some degree, I feel like a lot of the people that are big
Tom Allen, Fans, they they lean on that old inaccurate Trope
from around when Tom crane was fired.
It's like well if you're fired Tom Allen you're not gonna be
able to find anybody better that'll come at tiny foot Bots.
That's like that's crap. I mean Washington State went out
and hired Mike Leach and Mike Leach has his own problems with
Mike leads you know by year three had a six and six season
and then made five straight Bowls in the next six seasons
and that's you know and it's Washington State man that's not
that mean they've you want to talk about a program that
doesn't have Natural recruiting violation or violation doesn't
mean natural. Recruiting area doesn't have
any, you know, any particularly large donors doesn't have nearly
the money that Indiana's got, they figured out a way to go
hire, somebody who came in and was able to do what they needed
to do to to build something sustainable.
Not just to have a couple of good years sandwiched with
mediocrity on one end and Abyss on the other Kansas state, has
figured out how to pull themselves out with similar.
Our problems and similar restrictions TCU, which is like
the eighth most attractive school to go to, and Kansas or
excuse me in Texas, they've figured out a way to be
successful. You're not Vanderbilt who
doesn't care about sports, you know, because they're this top
level Academic Program. Like there's, there's nothing
about Indiana intrinsically that makes it impossible to have a
good football program. It's it's really about making
the right hires And putting enough support behind those
hires to make it work and look I don't think there's an argument
to be made that Tom Allen hasn't gotten enough financial support
from the University. I mean you could I guess if you
want to make the argument about the Sheridan thing maybe.
But I mean realistically this is there's enough support.
There's enough financial structure in place right now
that this program should be in a better spot than it is right
now. And it's it's not a matter of
where, you know, and A lack of gratefulness because we'll gosh,
Tom Allen, 18 games, and then went six and one in the pandemic
year. It's like, okay, as you said,
you should be able to do that and then not immediately drop
back to a to win season. Followed by potentially a three
win season, that is not acceptable.
I don't care who's the coach or what they're doing.
That's not an acceptable chain of results.
So, anyway it as we talked about A lot of this just feels like
yelling into the wind and you know, what are you going to do
about it? But I do think ultimately,
something's got to be fixed and I don't know, I don't see.
I don't see the route right now. I'd love to be proven wrong.
I'd love to see Tom Allen be successful here, but it's got to
start showing up on the field. It can't just be in the press
conferences and when you lose to Rutgers and you come out and
say, well, everything is up for evaluation including the
quarterback and it's week eight. Essentially going into a bye
week. It tells me, you don't have any
answers and if you don't have any answers for the program that
you've coached since 2017, and it's 2022, that is a real
problem. Yeah, it did.
Yeah the that bothers me because when I watch this team, the last
thing that I think is like this is a counter base like problem.
Like I'm not saying he's great, he's not like the best
quarterback in the Big Ten but I've never thought like, I mean,
he's just making a, he's no time, he can't do anything, it's
not he didn't have a good deed out of a good game against
Rutgers. No question and and yet as
Taylor Layman pointed out in bite-sized bison, It's almost
been impossible throughout the rest of the year to evaluate
Bay's like because he's had no time because he hasn't been able
to do anything. Now if you want, if you're if
you think. Okay, let's do Jack total out
there. Let's do Dexter Williams out
there. If you honestly think that
that's going to make a difference fine try it.
I would be shocked if it made a difference at this point because
ultimately the problem is not the quarterback.
The problem is the lack of depth at wide receiver, the completely
inept offensive line in terms of Stanley blocking.
I mean, there's so many other problems.
Everybody wants to point to the quarterback and again, I'll be
the first to say basil. Act probably his worst game in
Indiana uniform but this isn't this is a guy who if he was that
he didn't get so bad leaving Mizzou that.
These are his this is who he is. Now I find that really hard to
believe. The fact that you take a guy who
was adequate at Mizzou but didn't measure up in the SEC,
you plug them into this system and he gets like three levels
worse. That should tell you a lot.
What about the infrastructure that he was plugged into?
And the fact that Jack Tuttle who's been in that
infrastructure for multiple years.
Couldn't win the job, coming into the season, hasn't thrown a
pass should tell you a lot as well.
So anyway, That'll do it for us on football.
No podcasts next week because it's a bye week and I think
everybody needs a rest but we'll be back to preview Penn State.
That game is going to be the first Saturday of November.
We'll see what that looks like Penn State big win yesterday,
kind of righted the ship, they're six and one right now,
three and one overall in the conference and, you know, still
in shouting distance of Michigan and Ohio State trip up of doing
something in the Big Ten East. So Scott is always a pleasure
and we'll look forward to talking with all you folks later
on. Thanks, don't feel the Peril for
joining us. Thanks to our Brethren and
sistren in the back home network.
Be sure to check out assembly call as it's basketball season.
A lot of great podcasts coming up from them as we get ready for
the preseason games. What this week next week.
It's right here. It's right in our backyard.
Anyway, folks will catch you on the flip side.
Bring back the Bison song, everybody.