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Hi folks, welcome back to 
Crimson cash. 

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We are in Woodson day, one aaww,
woody day, one coach Woody, is 

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our coach Scott here with you 
and I'm breaking. 

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I feel like I'm breaking podcast
protocol. 

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I feel really bad about this. 
I'm super excited to have him 

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on. 
Think it's first time we've done

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121. 
I have Andy bottoms from 

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assembly call, but Andy, you've 
not been on assembly call yet. 

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So I feel like I'm stealing your
thunder. 

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So I'm happy to hold this for a 
couple days if you want to wait.

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And then we can have you on 
assembly call and then you can 

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make this your your part do or 
something. 

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Now you're good. 
We don't think we have anything 

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else planned. 
I think Jared's working on 

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something for after the women's 
game tonight, so I'll probably 

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hop on for that a little bit. 
But, you know, no need to hold 

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it. 
It was, it was funny. 

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We had scheduled this ahead 
ahead of time and I was going to

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talk about that. 
My wife was joking about like, 

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whoa. 
When are they going to have you 

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on? 
They've had everyone else on. 

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And I told her, I said, you 
know, it's always good to really

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find out where you stand. 
But now this is like a, you 

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know, breaking new ground and I 
didn't have a chance to be able 

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to get on the show yesterday. 
So it all it all. 

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It all evens itself out. 
I got a plan, man. 

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You may think I'm crazy. 
I know what I'm doing. 

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I was saving you for the best 
day, I emailed. 

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All you guys the same time. 
It's your schedule was tougher 

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to get in line with know. 
It's funny yesterday gay. 

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I feel like the, the hiring 
overtook my life because 

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yesterday, Galen and I did like 
an 85 Minute Podcast. 

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And then immediately like an 
hour later, they news 

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announcement, I just protect 
others like shit. 

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All right, let's get on. 
Like it was such a, my wife, 

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like sorry, but all day and they
spent doing podcast. 

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I was probably going to play 
Warfare anyway with some 

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friends. 
So it's not like I was going to 

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probably be a good husband. 
But, yeah, I spent all day 

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podcasting, on Woodson 
yesterday. 

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So I was my, my wife and older 
daughter out of town for soccer 

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and I was home with my younger 
daughter and we were just 

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hanging out in the afternoon. 
We're like playing a board game 

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and I saw this stuff's are 
coming off my phone. 

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And she was like, it's your 
turn, it's your turn. 

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I was like just one second. 
I'm just trying to figure out 

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what's going on. 
So, but I did, I did, at least 

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not not abandon her completely 
and hop on the assembly call, 

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while we were doing that. 
So, that was really why I 

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couldn't get on and do that 
then. 

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So I was at least like a 
reasonably good father except 

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for like the 10 minutes where I 
was like I just want to read 

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whatever is going on here. 
So we're good. 

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Good Perry what board game we're
playing life. 

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So I ended up losing to so it's 
you know, it's not even working 

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but no one of my neighbors 
started playing sorry with this.

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It's we've been into that and 
sorry is a underrated game but I

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like life to agree. 
Yeah. 

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My younger daughter is a big 
game person. 

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So we usually, usually go 
through quite a few. 

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All right. 
Yeah. 

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Monopoly Juniors. 
Also nice. 

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You can bang was out in like 15 
minutes. 

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All right. 
Well anyway board game podcast. 

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Time is over. 
Let's talk. 

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We have a new. 
I you coach we have Coach. 

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Mike Woodson was announced today
in a press conference. 

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We've had some time to think 
about it. 

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I've had some time to kind of 
digest and recenter. 

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Some of my thoughts. 
Listen to some of the responses 

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from the IU. 
You podcast fear. 

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But Andy, tell us your thoughts.
What was your thoughts 

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yesterday? 
Where are you at today? 

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If you had your thoughts change,
like how are you feeling about 

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the the era so far? 
Yeah, it's interesting. 

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Because when his name first came
up, I my reaction was probably 

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like a lot of other people's of 
being a bit underwhelmed, I 

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think framing everything. 
Once the Stevens stuff died down

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probably would have heard really
any candidate. 

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So I don't think that, I don't 
think that helped Jared put some

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stuff together about, you know, 
maybe this might not be As crazy

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as people think and written up 
some stuff about that which I 

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think he's since since tweeted. 
I guess I tend to come down on 

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the side of a couple things, 
one, after all of it, like I'm a

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fan first. 
So I'm going to talk myself into

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virtually anything, no matter 
what. 

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Because to me, there's not a lot
of fun to be had in being 

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skeptical of it from day, one 
and and their parts to have 

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questions about and I'm sure 
we'll we'll get into those and 

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like how that part of its going 
to work. 

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But I think there are definitely
arguments to be made that it can

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it can work and it's it's 
interesting at the very least in

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a way that you know some of the 
other hires may not have been. 

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And then the the other part of 
that is I think you guys have 

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mentioned this. 
A lot of people have it's on the

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heels of the you know, quote 
unquote can't-miss guy, missing 

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for four straight years. 
I find it really hard to then 

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follow along the trail of people
who are like well this is the 

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dumbest thing anyone's ever 
done. 

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This is a This is a failure. 
I can't believe this is you, 

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they had this is never going to 
work. 

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So I just the reality is like, 
we don't know and that was end 

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up. 
I think those were the couple 

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things that I ended up like 
retweeting yesterday from some 

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people is like, you legitimately
don't know. 

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I can go find NBA people who 
think it's great. 

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I think there was like some 
David Aldridge quotes that he 

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had out yesterday about you know
about him, you can go find stuff

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to support whatever you want, 
but the reality is like there's 

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so many of these coaches that 
have seemed like, you know, 

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can't miss things that haven't 
worked. 

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Act out both at IU and other 
places and there's other guys 

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that people have been skeptical 
about. 

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You know everybody was bagging 
on Goodman for the like oh 

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here's your piece when you said 
you want Howard was a risk that 

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wasn't going to work. 
Well that's going pretty well. 

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So you know, I just don't know 
and that's not to single him 

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out. 
A lot of people have made those 

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mistakes so so to me I'm trying 
not to get sucked into whatever 

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everybody thinks is going to 
going to work and try to just 

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take it at face value and see 
what happens and the reality 

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wins and losses will matter a 
lot of the stuff now is like 

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window dressing. 
And you can pick your staff and 

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do all those things. 
But when when push comes to 

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shove, when games actually 
start, is this team? 

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Look better prepared. 
Is this team play more together?

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Does this seem Play Harder They,
you know, do those things 

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happen. 
That's ultimately what matters. 

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And unfortunately, we're not 
going to know that for a while. 

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So we can fill in the gaps with 
speculation until then about 

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whether it will work or not. 
Yeah, I know a lot of good stuff

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there. 
A lot to unpack, I think a lot 

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of the same feelings that I had,
you know, I agree. 

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It's it's tough because I bought
into the Archie thing and 

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there's so much, you know, 
National positive media. 

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Like this was the good higher 
and it felt like, all right, we 

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got the hot young coach. 
Like we did exactly what you're 

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supposed to do. 
We did what all these other 

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programs do and then it's like, 
yeah, I remember that. 

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I little Indiana State game and 
then I cop, I'm not picking on 

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you guys at all. 
I hope of the Assembly Hall like

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what the hell happened? 
It's like, all right. 

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Let's pack line defense, it's 
going to happen. 

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It's kind of like, all right, 
like let's not look over there 

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but like just, you know, this is
the right higher, it's good. 

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And then like there's IPFW and I
remember the second year with, 

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you know, That Romeo year it's 
like what is going on? 

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Why are we not better than this?
But the results on the court or 

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kind of what ended up really 
changing my mind. 

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And that's where I'm trying to 
be very pragmatic at this point 

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but also just realizing that you
know yeah this isn't if you ask 

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me three or four days ago, 
Woodson wasn't one of my top 

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candidates and this isn't the 
answer that. 

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It's like I wanted if you would 
have asked me two or three days 

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ago that said, I'm like you, I'm
gonna find the Is it as I think 

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there's a lot of ways you can 
spin this. 

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And I think in the end, it's 
kind of a cop-out answer. 

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But it's true, because I think 
we've all been burned by kind of

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that Archie experience that it's
like, look how this team looks 

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in the fall when they play their
first five or six games and how 

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they look the next two years. 
Like that's really going to 

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answer the question here and you
know, we're at a point where 

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it's kind of like you got to 
show us but if there's wins and 

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they look good it's right 
because I just talking to a 

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friend and it's kind of like 
what's the bar? 

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And it's like I think for me I'm
happy to hear your answer for 

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me. 
It's like I think over the next 

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two years Years if we could make
one tournament and maybe beat 

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Purdue once I'm happy. 
And that's a crazy low bar. 

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You know, and I would say over 
the next four years, we got to 

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make the tournament three times 
and I don't think that's asking 

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too much and to me that's the 
bar and if we can get there this

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was a great hire in my mind. 
Yeah, I think it's an 

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opportunity to edit at a 
minimum, get things back going 

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in the right direction versus 
where they were before and that 

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and that's where you know people
can bag on. 

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Oh you went and got you pay 10 
million dollars to get rid of 

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Archie Miller you did whatever 
like no one has painted the 

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picture for me of how exactly 
was this going to turn around 

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and why would it have in any 
way? 

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Been the right move to keep him.
So all the stuff about, do you 

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pay 10 million dollars? 
You ended up with Mike Woodson? 

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Like next year was not going to 
be good and To pretend that some

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of these guys are in the 
transfer portal, right now, 

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wouldn't have been in there. 
Anyway, is equally silly, which 

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is, you know, these other, oh 
well I use not even going to 

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have a team. 
Look at all these guys in a 

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transfer portal. 
I mean, the list of guys who 

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look like they were having a 
hell of a time out there toward 

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the end of last season. 
Look, like they really had a 

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passion for playing for their 
coach, was, was pretty short. 

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So I'm not really, I'm not 
really, I'm not really buying 

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into that either. 
And so that's obviously the 

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first thing Woodson's going to 
be tasked with. 

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But I think you're, you know, I 
think what you said is is fair 

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you'd like To see progress and 
getting the term. 

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I think, once in the next couple
of years, would be reasonable 

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and with the transfer portal and
system the way that it is right 

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now, if he can come in and get 
guys on staff that are going to 

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help make this even more 
compelling to recruits. 

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And and by recruits, I mean, 
both high school kids, and 

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people in the transfer portal, 
you've seen guys, be able to 

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turn things pretty quickly, 
whether he's able to do that or 

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not. 
We truly have no idea, but the 

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ability To get your talent level
in a place to make those things 

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reality is different than it has
been. 

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And so that that and he's eluded
to that in a couple things that 

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I've heard with and talk about 
even today of you know, really 

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want to understand. 
I like how he said where 

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people's hearts are when he's 
talking about the you guys and 

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what they want to do and come 
back and then figure out, hey he

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was going to be back in then and
figure out how to attack it from

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there. 
So, the one thing that I thought

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about as I listened to the 
assembly call this morning, Was 

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I think Jared pointed this out. 
Well first off I will say let me

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go back to something called 
sorry all over the place. 

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I will say that you mentioned 
like you know that idea but we 

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fired our to we've got Mike 
Woodson like what were you 

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doing? 
This is a Galen point that I 

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think is very valid. 
Like the two decisions are don't

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have to be tied. 
Like you could fire your coach 

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and maybe make a good or bad 
hire like they're not tied 

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00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:13,000
together. 
Like the idea to get rid of 

224
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,400
Archie is one decision who to 
hire as your next coach is 

225
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,500
another decision and they can 
both be right, they can be right

226
00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:21,800
or wrong, they can both be wrong
but Don't need to be tied 

227
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,600
together. 
So I think that's where National

228
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,500
people look at it. 
They like oh you fired Archie. 

229
00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:28,200
This is what you got. 
It's like no we needed to fire 

230
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,100
Archie. 
I don't want to rehash that I 

231
00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:33,100
think the thing that was talked 
about on the assembly call that 

232
00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:37,600
really got me thinking today was
the idea of, you know, how this 

233
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,200
decision is framed based on the 
Human Being Framed on Stevens. 

234
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,700
But it's, you know, a lot of us 
are framing this based on people

235
00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:49,300
that we assume. 
It's like, well, you know, we're

236
00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:52,900
looking at Woodson vs. 
Chris beard or Woodson versus, 

237
00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:55,100
you know, Eric Musselman, and 
what's in versus Scott? 

238
00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:59,200
Drew where I'm a knife and we've
been podcasting for 12 years and

239
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,100
I you bathroom, when I you grab 
like, I'm an IU fan, but I do 

240
00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:04,100
think we might need to come to 
the realization, there's a real 

241
00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:06,600
possibility. 
None of those guys wanted the 

242
00:11:06,608 --> 00:11:09,800
job like we're looking at this 
as if like we turn down a bunch 

243
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,900
of other maybe good guys to get 
Woodson. 

244
00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:14,900
And again, I'm going to lay out 
the positive points for Woods 

245
00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:16,100
near. 
I'm not knocking it but it's 

246
00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:19,200
possible that whether you like 
or dislike Woodson. 

247
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,900
What's it could have been the 
Name that was available for us 

248
00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:27,000
to hire as guys who also had 
reciprocity interest in us. 

249
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,600
So I think that's an interesting
way to frame it because I look 

250
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,100
at it as like, you know, just be
honest. 

251
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:34,500
I was kind of interested in Eric
Musselman but it's like there's 

252
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:36,700
a possibility. 
I'm assuming like Musselman 

253
00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:39,000
would have wanted to come here, 
but maybe he didn't. 

254
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,800
So I think that needs to be 
like, we'll never know that 

255
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,200
answer, but I do think that's 
where some fans are getting 

256
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,700
locked up. 
And, like some of my friends are

257
00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:47,800
kind of like, you know, my other
friends were not. 

258
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,200
I you fans like that's the best 
you could do. 

259
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,700
And it's kind of like, well, 
it's possible. 

260
00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:52,800
All that there. 
Wasn't anybody? 

261
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,200
You know, they be it is the best
that we could do. 

262
00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:59,000
Yeah, it's it's odd to think 
about. 

263
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,300
I don't mean it like sorry, that
that came off - I got the best 

264
00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:03,200
we could do. 
But it's like it's possible that

265
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,100
all of those other names that 
it's not like we turned out 

266
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:11,300
other people to get this. 
Yeah, I think the the Regard in 

267
00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:16,300
which, you know, we might hold 
the job is different than, or 

268
00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:19,200
potentially different at least 
than the way other people would 

269
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,000
see it. 
And I think your pointer on 

270
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,400
whether that's a muscleman or, 
or beard or whatever mean there,

271
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,300
there were reasons to believe 
those guys may not want to move.

272
00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:32,100
Plus then you have Texas open up
that has implications with at 

273
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:33,600
least at least one of those 
guys. 

274
00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:39,500
And also what due diligence was 
done by you to check these guys 

275
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:42,000
and say are these really guys 
that we want like we can look 

276
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,300
and say, hey this guy has a 
great record and this, you know,

277
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:48,100
this looks good about this guy 
and they do their due diligence 

278
00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:49,800
in the background and say, hey, 
there's a couple things here 

279
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,700
that I'm not, I don't know that 
I want to introduce him to the 

280
00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:55,400
program, not saying that happen 
with either one of those guys. 

281
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,700
Certainly don't know. 
But I also think the possibility

282
00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:03,600
exists that as people create 
their wish list of what they see

283
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,500
based on the information that 
they have, there's other 

284
00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:07,500
information available in the 
background that then may 

285
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:09,500
disqualify some of those guys or
to your point. 

286
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:13,900
Those guys aren't interested and
what was a list of 10 people 

287
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,800
might get whittled down to four 
by the time you've sorted some 

288
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,000
of these things out and it's 
what you have. 

289
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:25,200
I don't know that. 
I do think that's the sum total 

290
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,900
of 20 plus years of of the way 
the program has pressed perform 

291
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,600
with some, you know, positive 
moments here and there. 

292
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,700
But you know, you've done that 
multiple times, we kind of go 

293
00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:36,000
through and say, hey, over this 
time period. 

294
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,700
Here's what these Blue Bloods 
have done, and here's how I you 

295
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,800
Compares and whatever else and 
like, it doesn't compare 

296
00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:43,900
favorably. 
And the way that the way that 

297
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:47,200
it's thought of by the fan base 
and different people there may 

298
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:50,200
not, I think that's always going
to be a little bit skewed, but 

299
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,200
maybe even more skewed than 
Expect it to be in terms of How 

300
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,900
It's really perceived out in 
the, in the marketplace of 

301
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:59,500
people who are looking for jobs.
Yeah, I think the other thing 

302
00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:04,300
that, you know, I think it's a 
real possibility, I could also 

303
00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:06,800
see it as like, people see this 
as a - I want to look at both 

304
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,900
sides of this, but before we get
into digging into the 

305
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:12,700
particulars of this, you can't 
talk about this much, that 

306
00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,400
bringing up fad Mata, which I 
think is just a really 

307
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,800
interesting wrinkle. 
You know, when I looked at the 

308
00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:22,700
again, kind of made my wish list
of, you know, Coaching hires 

309
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,200
that model was top of my list if
not you know one one or two if 

310
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,900
he was going to be healthy 
enough, he's a lot younger than 

311
00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:31,800
people expect. 
We said a million times in this 

312
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,900
podcast. 
His record in the Big Ten is 

313
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:35,400
impeccable. 
Everybody's like OB line. 

314
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,700
It's like dude modest probably 
has a better record over that 

315
00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:39,600
time like modest. 
Probably the second best coach 

316
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,500
in the last 20 years in the Big 
Ten behind is 0 and it's is 

317
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:45,600
those got a title and Mata 
doesn't like the is those 

318
00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,700
models. 
Got a lot of good going for him,

319
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:50,700
you get him on the staff. 
I look at that as a real 

320
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:53,300
positive again like this is So 
tough for this hires you could 

321
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:54,500
you can kind of see it both 
sides. 

322
00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:57,200
You also see it as like that 
said, you know, an admission 

323
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,700
that like Woodson wasn't enough 
and you had to hire bada I'm and

324
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:04,700
and yeah, I'm not fully sure. 
I know what his role is, I think

325
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:07,100
we'll learn more overtime. 
Like he's not an assistant 

326
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:10,900
coach, he's an athletic 
director, you know, it's like, 

327
00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:12,600
I've talked to other people. 
It's like, I've been saying, 

328
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,200
like, oh, his job, as he has a 
great coaching tree. 

329
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,300
So he should be like, getting 
great assistance, but they're 

330
00:15:17,308 --> 00:15:19,600
like, that's not his job 
because, you know, he's not an 

331
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,500
assistant coach and he's like, 
that's not the coach's job, it's

332
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,500
like so, I don't know what his 
role is, but to me, I don't 

333
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,200
think it's again, the and I come
down like, it doesn't hurt to 

334
00:15:27,208 --> 00:15:30,200
have mod of here and to me, like
that's kind of The Quiet part. 

335
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,700
Secret amazing part of all this 
is, like, you kind of got two 

336
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,500
coaches for the price of one. 
Like, I joked in the last pot. 

337
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:38,600
It's like, it's like we printed 
Voltron, like we have all the 

338
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,100
pieces that come together and 
now we have, like, the mega 

339
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:43,900
coach. 
But yeah, that's, I'm curious 

340
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,200
your thoughts on the, the Mata 
piece of this, because you can't

341
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,900
go too far down this road 
without mentioning like bad, 

342
00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:51,700
bada is on the IU basketball 
staff. 

343
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,600
Pretty cool to say. 
Yeah, that was he was definitely

344
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,000
a guy that I was was fairly high
on there. 

345
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,300
That the health questions were 
really the biggest ones for him.

346
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:04,900
He not had as good a run the 
last year to he was at Ohio 

347
00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:08,000
State. 
But to your point, his success 

348
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,600
in the Big Ten was proven and 
that's the one thing that one of

349
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,000
the things everybody talked 
about before is I don't want to 

350
00:16:14,008 --> 00:16:17,100
get the up-and-comer who hasn't 
already performed at this level 

351
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:19,900
before he truly fit, the bill of
the guy who already had. 

352
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:24,300
So I think that's a positive. 
Even it like you said, I don't 

353
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:26,100
know exactly what the role 
entails. 

354
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,100
I think it's a role that's 
existed before that different. 

355
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,200
People have held and it may be 
something that each coach may 

356
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:32,400
use. 
Differently. 

357
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,300
Based dependent the, you know, 
how the rules are what they can 

358
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:37,500
and can't do and those different
things. 

359
00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:39,700
But I think each coach is 
probably looking for something 

360
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,200
different from that, that 
particular role. 

361
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,400
I think, if it a minimum modest 
serves in some advisory role on 

362
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:52,900
the pieces of the job that 
Woodson would be, Less prepared 

363
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:54,600
for Less familiar with or 
whatever you want to say. 

364
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,200
So whether that be recruiting or
how to handle on campus visits 

365
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,900
or how to do whatever not 
necessarily the mod is 

366
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,000
participating in those because 
I'm not sure what the rules are 

367
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,599
on that or they aren't. 
But at least to be able to, hey,

368
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,300
here's here's how to organize 
this to be able to say, hey 

369
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:13,599
here, we have another guy who's 
had this, that your to potential

370
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,400
recruits that is, you know, we 
have this guy, he's had this 

371
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,800
success. 
Here's the players that he's 

372
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,900
coached and got into the NBA and
different things like that. 

373
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,300
So, I don't know how forthright 
anybody's going to be with 

374
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:28,200
exactly like what he's gonna do 
in that role, but I think it 

375
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,500
certainly can't be a bad thing. 
Having a guy with his resume in 

376
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:36,400
the mix and it certainly seems 
like it's something that Woodson

377
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:41,500
would have had to be open to on 
some level and hopefully serves 

378
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:43,800
as somewhat of an 
acknowledgement of hey I know 

379
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,600
that, I don't know everything 
but here's a guy who can help me

380
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,700
fill in some of the gaps and 
help me through the acclimation 

381
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:53,400
process and we don't know. 
And I think Jared maybe it was 

382
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,100
Ryan, brought this up, I think 
it was Ryan about, you know, how

383
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:59,400
long is Mata for this position? 
That's a fair question. 

384
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,600
If something opens up and he's 
able to get back to coaching and

385
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,400
wants to get back into coaching,
is this a one year thing or not 

386
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:10,000
hard to say? 
But I also would argue for a guy

387
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,600
who's coming and who's never 
coached college basketball 

388
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,400
before even getting one year of 
tutelage, from a guy like that 

389
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,500
Mata is, is probably worth 
bringing him on, and bring it 

390
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:21,600
in, and having that risk, and 
maybe he comes on really like 

391
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,400
The role and is able to you 
know, it is a better fit for him

392
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,400
from a health perspective and 
not having the rigors of 

393
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,100
actually being the coach. 
And it's something that he likes

394
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,100
and wants to stay at we that we 
don't know. 

395
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:35,400
But in the short term it feels 
like a positive for for Woodson 

396
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,200
and Fry you. 
Yeah, I liked Ryan's point. 

397
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,900
I hope that he's here to unpack 
his bags and stay for 7 to 10 

398
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:44,100
years. 
I hope this isn't just, you 

399
00:18:44,108 --> 00:18:46,300
know, his kind of dipping his 
toe into the water and then 

400
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:48,100
getting ready for the next job 
that he wants. 

401
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:50,600
But I agree with you. 
It's it's one year and this is 

402
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,100
where, you know, Tough because I
think retroactively you could 

403
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:55,800
see this honestly going both 
ways. 

404
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,500
Like, if Woodson does a good 
job. 

405
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:01,600
You look at this very similar. 
Again, as mentioned on one of 

406
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,700
the assembly call podcast, this 
is not a similar situation to 

407
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:07,000
Juwan Howard, but one similarity
is Juwan. 

408
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,800
Howard brought unfilled martelly
to his staff who has a lot of 

409
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,200
experience and that's, that's 
viewed. 

410
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,100
Now is like oh look how great, 
you know, Howard was to bring a 

411
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,800
experienced guy like saying, so 
humble is able to give up, you 

412
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,100
do not give up a put somebody on
his staff who, you know, will 

413
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,900
tell him things to do. 
And if wasn't a success, Well, I

414
00:19:21,908 --> 00:19:24,000
think it'll be viewed the same 
way flip side. 

415
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,300
If he's not, it'll be like, man.
This is like it showed right off

416
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:28,100
the bat like he wasn't able to 
take control. 

417
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:30,200
Like he couldn't take control of
the game, he couldn't take 

418
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,900
control of his program, like, it
could be viewed, both ways with 

419
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:36,100
that. 
Here's where I'd like to kind of

420
00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:38,600
frame. 
Our discussion is personal 

421
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,100
opinion. 
I think at this point, people 

422
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:45,500
who are all in or all out are 
wrong and this is what I mean, 

423
00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:48,100
is I think those who were just 
saying like look, this is this 

424
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:49,900
is the greatest higher ever. 
Like, there's no question. 

425
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:51,100
You don't, you don't think 
you're right. 

426
00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,800
You're Stupid like how can you 
not see this as great? 

427
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,800
I think there are some real 
question marks to look at and 

428
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,100
things that we can at least 
discuss rationally because this 

429
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,700
is a different type of higher. 
I think also people who say this

430
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:07,100
is awful like this is a state of
how bad I you is. 

431
00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:08,900
Mike, I'm done. 
This is the worst Tire ever. 

432
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,200
I think that's also not a good 
way to look at it. 

433
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,800
There's a lot of things that you
could look at and say there's 

434
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,400
some real positives here and 
some real almost hidden gems of 

435
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,700
how things are being done. 
So I Veer away from people who 

436
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,100
were just 100% Went in or 100% 
out. 

437
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:26,200
I think there's definite ways to
look at it so I'd like to kind 

438
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,300
of look at the positives and 
negatives with you. 

439
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:31,000
You know, let's start with, 
we'll start with positives, will

440
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,200
go to negatives and will end on 
a positive note. 

441
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,400
I promise folks are not going to
I don't want to end just a bunch

442
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,200
of negatives but I'm curious. 
What are some of the things that

443
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,800
you look at when you as you look
at this and think about it that 

444
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,700
you really think are you know 
positive opportunities for 

445
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:49,000
Woodson as coach. 
So I'm going to, I'm going to 

446
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,200
hit off the court stuff first, I
guess, and then we can, we can 

447
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,500
get into a little bit of the 
other stuff, but I think the one

448
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,800
thing that he is really, really 
try to drive home in the press 

449
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,900
conference, and some of the 
videos that have been making the

450
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,600
rounds in terms of conversations
with, like, Raymond Felton. 

451
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,700
And I forget the other, I 
forget, the other next guys were

452
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,400
in the video, Felton was the one
that was prime or prominent, but

453
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:14,500
the people have been, you know, 
going around about is I think 

454
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:17,300
his his focus on relationships 
with the play. 

455
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:20,600
There's and the talking about 
more of the family, atmosphere, 

456
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,900
whatever I say that without even
talking about the whole, I you 

457
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:25,500
piece of it. 
And, you know, being able to 

458
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:27,600
talk a lot about Bridging, the 
Gap between different 

459
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,300
generations of players, but I 
think from in because Jarrod has

460
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:34,800
definitely brought it up to me. 
I don't remember whether he 

461
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,300
brought it up on when he was on 
with you or not. 

462
00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:38,800
There's been so much content 
around this. 

463
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,300
I can't keep track of who said 
what where I know and but 

464
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:45,200
luckily there's so much nobody 
can prove, prove me wrong, if I 

465
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,300
throw the wrong name out of the 
wrong, the wrong out. 

466
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,900
Let but, you know, he talked a 
lot about just the yeah, I was 

467
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,600
one of the kind of failures of 
Archie was you just didn't see 

468
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:54,800
that relationship with the 
players? 

469
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,200
I don't think he, you know, set 
himself up to really let you in 

470
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,800
to know what he was really all 
about any more than he did in 

471
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,600
the opening press conference and
in and Woodson seems very 

472
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,600
focused on that. 
Now, time will tell on that, 

473
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,700
it's easy to pay lip service to 
that right out of the gate. 

474
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:14,400
But I think when you hear NBA 
guys, talking about that like 

475
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,300
that, to me really says 
something. 

476
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,800
Maybe I'm Drinking the Kool-Aid 
or getting sucked into that. 

477
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,400
But I think the relationship 
piece of what he's doing. 

478
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,200
He's talked about 
accountability. 

479
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,800
I think we've all had questions 
about, you know, how some of 

480
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,900
that has been put into place in 
Archie Senor, probably even 

481
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,700
green to a certain extent of, 
you know, being clear with his 

482
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,300
expectations, being hard on 
players, expecting a lot of them

483
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:41,700
but also really, you know, being
there for them and and being a 

484
00:22:41,708 --> 00:22:44,000
resource for them that they can 
use and somebody that they are 

485
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,200
comfortable working with and 
want to play for and want to 

486
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,400
play. 
A hard for it and want to do 

487
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,300
well for. 
And I think that's resounded 

488
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:54,000
pretty clearly from any of the 
NBA guys who have come out and 

489
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,200
said things. 
And I think if there's one area 

490
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,000
that we talked about this, as 
well of see, NFL teams do this 

491
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,200
where the pendulum swings so far
back and forth between oh here's

492
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,300
the hard-ass and I got to go to 
the player's coach and it just 

493
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,100
like goes so far. 
One way or the other. 

494
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,500
I think that was the one area of
the eye. 

495
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:14,000
You search process whatever you 
want to say that needed to 

496
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,300
probably take the biggest 180, 
wasn't. 

497
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:18,800
Of building the plate 
relationship. 

498
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,400
Now, whether that establishes 
itself on the recruiting Trail, 

499
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,000
whether that comes to fruition 
or not, from that perspective, I

500
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,300
don't know. 
But anything you've seen red, 

501
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:28,800
even heard and brief times 
today. 

502
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:33,100
I think bodes well for that part
of the job, which will be a big 

503
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:34,600
improvement from where we were 
before. 

504
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:36,500
Yeah, it's funny. 
You mention that. 

505
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:39,900
That's one of the things I look 
at is a real positive that, you 

506
00:23:39,908 --> 00:23:43,300
know, as I look back on the 
Archie era, one of the things 

507
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:47,300
that I've said is, you know, and
I'm not rehashing the air. 

508
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,000
But your he was really on the 
margins. 

509
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,500
Like you were one or two wins 
away every year from may be 

510
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,600
making the tournament four years
in a row and which would have 

511
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,600
kept Archie at IU. 
And he would have been here 

512
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:58,800
another year. 
And we wouldn't be looking at 

513
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,000
this as a massive 
disappointment. 

514
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,800
If we were in the tournament, 
four years in a row and again, 

515
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,300
you're talking about two wins a 
year to get there. 

516
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,800
But what, you know, we saw it 
like a lot of, you know, the 

517
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,400
game against Rutgers the game 
against Michigan State where, 

518
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,800
you know, Ella it looked like 
they didn't want to be there. 

519
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,900
And now you're hearing some 
Rumblings coming out that Archie

520
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:19,800
wasn't The in Indiana that he 
kind of regretted taking the job

521
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,300
and, you know, he kind of almost
had his own mental foot out the 

522
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,100
door as well. 
It's like, well, yeah, the team 

523
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:28,200
reflected their coach, they 
looked like they were kind of 

524
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,600
disinterested and, you know, I 
anybody who's played Sports will

525
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,900
tell you, it's as much mental, 
as it is physical. 

526
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:40,000
And that is the one thing that, 
you know, Mike Woodson wants to 

527
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,700
be here. 
Mike, Woodson loves. 

528
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:44,000
I you and I think you're going 
to get to a point where he's 

529
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,700
gonna seem disinterested or I 
don't see your good as and the 

530
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:48,100
team isn't. 
Going to reflect that. 

531
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:51,200
Like, I don't see a spot where 
Mike Woodson is gonna kind of 

532
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,400
look like Archie, did the last 
couple of games this season 

533
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,300
where you're like, dude are you,
are you locked in because I had 

534
00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,300
that feeling with her and I'm 
not trying to bag on Archie, but

535
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,600
we all were kind of like. 
He looks kind of like, he's out 

536
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,900
of answers and the team looks 
disinterested at time and the 

537
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:09,700
team, showed it by not scoring 
four minutes minutes, upon 

538
00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:14,200
minutes and Game film. 
And my point is that back to the

539
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,300
expectations, right asking for 
much. 

540
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:20,400
And honestly, If we keep the 
things just stable and Woodson 

541
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,100
has a team that at least is 
passionate and it's like, no, we

542
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:26,100
are not going to give up against
Rutgers. 

543
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:30,800
Maybe they win those extra two 
games a year and we're in the 

544
00:25:30,808 --> 00:25:33,300
tournament four years in a row. 
Like at that, that's the part 

545
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:36,700
where, you know, we don't need 
to be talking sweet 60s and 

546
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:38,300
Elite eights and national 
championships. 

547
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:42,200
Like and I'm not trying to 
undersell what he has to do to 

548
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,800
be a good coach. 
But it's like if the team 

549
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,100
displays hard, that could be the
difference, you know, it's 

550
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,200
making the tournament not That 
could be the difference that's 

551
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,800
turning this whole thing around.
Like, on one hand, it seems like

552
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,700
it could be, it's a Monumental 
task. 

553
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,600
On the other hand, it may not 
be. 

554
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,800
So I really do think the fact 
that Archie might have mentally 

555
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,300
been checked out, and that 
Woodson is, is fired up and 

556
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:05,300
wants to be here. 
I think has been a little bit 

557
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:07,500
understated, might be more 
important than people are 

558
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,500
looking at, is that the team 
we're going to have next year. 

559
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:12,900
I do think they're going to 
understand how important it is, 

560
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:16,400
and they're going to play with 
passion because if anything, I 

561
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:19,900
you seen that With the way that 
the players talk about Mike 

562
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,200
Woods, make you said the the 
former NBA players like Carmelo 

563
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,100
Anthony being like this guy's 
like a father figure. 

564
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:28,900
You know you have high-level NBA
players talking, glowingly about

565
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:33,100
Mike Woodson and I can tell you 
that Mike Woodson wants to be 

566
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:36,500
the IU coach. 
Like I'm I don't know him but I 

567
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:38,800
have a hard time believing that 
six months from now he's gonna 

568
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,800
be regretting taking this job 
like this is a great job for him

569
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:47,800
for what he for, who he is. 
So I think All that could 

570
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,500
translate to just a better 
product on the court. 

571
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,800
Yeah, I think so too. 
You talked about Archie, not 

572
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,600
looking locked in sir, you 
saying you did not abide by the 

573
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,900
John Rothstein Archie Miller 
more locked in than a CPA on 

574
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,400
April 14th. 
No anyway couldn't couldn't help

575
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,600
but think you probably might 
still be able to get this kind 

576
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,100
of t-shirt with that saying on 
it from rothstein's website. 

577
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:11,000
Yeah along with and it really 
hideous jackets. 

578
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,000
But that's neither here nor 
there. 

579
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:17,200
Um so when we hear so I'm sorry 
I'll really like it but now I 

580
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,500
What? 
One of the things you brought up

581
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:21,200
is one of the other caste man, 
let it go, let it come on. 

582
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,400
One of the I know I gotta get, I
gotta get myself into this, you 

583
00:27:24,408 --> 00:27:26,200
know, this frame of mind. 
But anyway, yeah. 

584
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,900
What are the other things that 
you brought up is just how much 

585
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:31,900
he actually wants to be here and
how much the job means to him. 

586
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:37,300
I have never been a big 
proponent of the, you need an IU

587
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:41,100
guy or you need Indiana players 
or you need whatever because I 

588
00:27:41,108 --> 00:27:44,500
think fans, I don't know that 
fans really kick, you know? 

589
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:47,200
Again your as a fan or you going
to enjoy a win. 

590
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:50,200
More because there were 8 IU 
kids on the roster as opposed to

591
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,400
two. 
Are you going to enjoy wind 

592
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,600
more? 
Because now, you guy was the guy

593
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:57,800
as the head coach at verses, not
know, especially after the last 

594
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,300
handful of years. 
You just enjoy wins period. 

595
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:04,200
But, but you can tell it means a
lot to him, talked about it, 

596
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,700
being a dream come true and how 
its, you know, come full circle 

597
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:08,700
for him being able to come back 
and be in a kid from 

598
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:14,200
Indianapolis and being able to, 
to get this job for a 

599
00:28:14,208 --> 00:28:16,100
university. 
That means a lot to him and for 

600
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:17,200
program, that means a lot to 
him. 

601
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:23,200
And so that's the part where I 
do think that argument holds 

602
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,400
some weight and maybe I missed 
the boat on that a little bit. 

603
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,900
And I still, you know, I still 
believe that nobody is getting 

604
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:31,800
the feeling of winning is not 
diminished by somebody else 

605
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,400
being there. 
But I may have sold short. 

606
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,200
The notion of this guy is not 
going to let let people just not

607
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,100
show up and kind of in what. 
I assumed his view would be 

608
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:45,500
Sully, the reputation of 
something that means a lot to 

609
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:49,600
him and is Ali going to enforce 
those kinds of things and 

610
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,500
reinforce the, the meaning of 
what. 

611
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:54,400
Putting on the Jersey means all 
that kind of cliched stuff, but 

612
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,900
it clearly means a lot to him. 
And I think how far that takes 

613
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:05,200
him what, what shortcomings, 
that may, that may help. 

614
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,000
I don't know, but it does feel 
good to know that. 

615
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,300
There's a guy who, who 
understands the magnitude of 

616
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:15,400
being the caretaker of something
that he was a part of and what 

617
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,500
it meant. 
And he, I feel like he's a Is 

618
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:19,800
that a lot of times getting 
things back to where it was, 

619
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,100
what they had built, bringing 
the guys bringing different guys

620
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:26,900
in and how much it meant to him 
when he was in the program when 

621
00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:29,200
when night would bring some of 
the older guys, back to talk to 

622
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,300
him and how he wants to do that 
here. 

623
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,000
So again what that how many wins
that equates to knit, nobody 

624
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,600
knows. 
But I think despite his kind of 

625
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,000
mild-mannered delivery of a lot 
of what he said. 

626
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:45,700
Like you could tell that he was 
passionate about IU basketball, 

627
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:48,700
which is a good feeling. 
The other thing that I would say

628
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:53,700
on a positive is in his NBA 
record, you know, and a couple 

629
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:56,700
of the pods I've listened to 
have had dissected his record 

630
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:59,000
pretty well and what he did in 
Atlanta and there's there's 

631
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:00,700
different ways you can look at 
it. 

632
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:03,400
You know, he made he took two 
bad teams to the playoffs. 

633
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,400
The last coach to have really 
any massive success with the 

634
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,400
Knicks, but he took over a bad 
Atlanta team to his record. 

635
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,500
May not, you know, reflect as 
good of a coach as he is the 

636
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:16,800
thing that I take away from it 
is that year, the 2012 2013 

637
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,600
season The Knicks won the 
Atlantic division, and, you 

638
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,200
know, people forget that, that 
was kind of the space and paste.

639
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,800
Nick's like that was the 
Warriors before the Warriors. 

640
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,000
Like they Woodson's teams played
a slower Pace, but they shot the

641
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,000
most number of Threes in the 
league that year, they made the 

642
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,300
most number of Threes are one of
the most high scoring offenses. 

643
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,500
And I remember at the time, like
they were shooting, you know, 

644
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:43,300
almost like what, like, ten 
threes a game them in the 

645
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:45,000
Rockets. 
But people were, like, what the 

646
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,800
hell are the Knicks doing? 
Like it's nuts. 

647
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:50,800
And this You know, in the sound 
like I say, Mike Wilson created 

648
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,300
basketball as we know it today, 
but he was ahead of the curve, 

649
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,400
like he that mixed, he was ahead
of the curve. 

650
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,800
The team that he coached that 
was before the warrior started 

651
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,200
going at it nuts. 
And that was a team that didn't 

652
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,900
like, it's not like they had 
Steph Curry. 

653
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,800
And you know, Klay Thompson. 
I mean you had Carmelo Anthony 

654
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,400
trying to pull up their stats. 
Now on who the totals for three 

655
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,300
points attempted that year but 
you had to go j.r. 

656
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:17,200
Smith, you know, Steve Novak 
Jason Kidd, Raymond Felton, you 

657
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,600
know, so I wouldn't call it j.r.
Smith, the Deadeye of the 

658
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,100
league, but you had a team where
he's like, we're going to shoot 

659
00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:24,000
a bunch of Threes. 
And so that is another positive 

660
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,900
I take from his coaching 
experience. 

661
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:29,800
As you look at it, he saw where 
basketball was going. 

662
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,100
And to be fair, he had one of 
the first teams that kind of 

663
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:35,400
play a space and pace and play a
bunch of three out. 

664
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:39,600
Again they're there. 
The the pace is a little bit 

665
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,500
slower in the NBA but he scored 
a lot of points to shot a lot of

666
00:31:42,508 --> 00:31:45,700
Threes. 
And so I'm invigorated by that, 

667
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,600
that he shown that You know, he 
had some pretty Innovative 

668
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,000
offenses while coaching in the 
NBA. 

669
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,900
I will also say this. 
I need to, I haven't done the 

670
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,900
full due diligence and kind of 
looking at it, but there's two 

671
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:01,600
coaches that I found, you know, 
there's not a lot of coaches 

672
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,600
that have gone from the MBA to 
college with experience a lot of

673
00:32:05,608 --> 00:32:08,200
got Calipari, did it? 
And was not good in the NBA. 

674
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,500
They went back to college and 
Pitino. 

675
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:12,500
Did it went back? 
This is an honest question. 

676
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,700
You know, Avery Johnson went to 
the finals but doesn't have as 

677
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:21,300
many Ins as Mike Woodson, as am 
be a coach, is this the most 

678
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:25,300
number of wins for an NBA coach 
to have ever then gone back to 

679
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:29,000
college and Coach? 
I'm having a hard time finding 

680
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,500
anybody who has more head 
coaching wins in the NBA than 

681
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:34,500
Mike Woodson bringing to 
college. 

682
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:38,200
He definitely has more than, you
know, more than Avery Johnson 

683
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:42,000
more than Calipari. 
More than Pitino, there might be

684
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,200
another example that I'm 
completely whiffing on, but if 

685
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,500
not, it's in the top three. 
So, I mean, there's a lot of 

686
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,800
experience and Innovative 
experience in the NBA as a head 

687
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,700
coach. 
Yeah, it's funny because we 

688
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:54,900
haven't really talked about any 
the X's and O's stuff. 

689
00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,200
And I think what you said about 
the paces is true. 

690
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,900
I know, Sam disini had a few 
tweets yesterday where he talked

691
00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:03,800
about, you know, relatively 
slower paced but offenses were 

692
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,300
always efficient. 
And you talked about that season

693
00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:10,700
just being able to, you know, to
work around the Personnel he 

694
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:12,500
had. 
And there was another video that

695
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:14,100
they had. 
I think it was j.j. 

696
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:18,200
Redick and somebody else were 
talking about about basically 

697
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,200
wasn't getting Steve Novak paid 
where they risk. 

698
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,300
Basically said like after after 
every time out he would run a 

699
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:25,200
play and get no beca three. 
And he would, you know, he was 

700
00:33:25,208 --> 00:33:26,700
such a good shooter. 
He would like, make almost all 

701
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:29,000
of them, they talked about how 
much money he made him over 

702
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,600
time, or being, you know, 
running different in bounds 

703
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,100
plays and things like that. 
So I think I think the X's and 

704
00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:39,600
O's piece is an exciting one. 
You got to figure out how to get

705
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,500
your pieces to fit around it and
that's where the recruiting 

706
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:42,900
comes in which is ultimately 
going to be one of the 

707
00:33:42,908 --> 00:33:44,000
questions. 
I'm sure that we're going to 

708
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,900
talk about but you know, from a 
just coaching basketball 

709
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:51,800
standpoint You know, I struggle 
to believe and I think he even 

710
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,100
said this on his interview with 
dockage today where you know, 

711
00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:57,200
people have questions about how 
can this guy go from the NBA and

712
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,600
Coach College? 
He's never coached in college 

713
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,800
before and I think his retort 
was what can a guy from college 

714
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,200
just going to the NBA and have 
success right away and it's like

715
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,600
yeah if you can do it there. 
Yeah. 

716
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:08,900
They're different people who 
have kind of phrase, the 

717
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,400
different ways but you know, 
then I forget who it was. 

718
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:12,800
I wish I wish. 
I remember. 

719
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,900
I think it was Fran fraschilla, 
I have to look up the, I'll have

720
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,300
to look up the Tweet, but it was
something to the effect of 

721
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:21,600
There's more coaching that goes 
on in three or four minutes of 

722
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,199
an of an NBA game. 
Then something at a college 

723
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,400
game, I'll find it here while 
we're while we're here. 

724
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,000
He said, oh yeah, honestly, Mike
wouldn't have to build a good 

725
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,699
experience. 
College hoops staff in Indiana, 

726
00:34:32,699 --> 00:34:35,300
but honestly, there's more 
coaching in one NBA game than 

727
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:37,500
three or four college games that
will not be an issue. 

728
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:40,900
Well, I think, guys from that 
perspective, you kind of 

729
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:42,699
understand the coaching pieces 
of it will be there. 

730
00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:45,300
Can you get his guys to execute 
what he wants them to do that? 

731
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:47,400
Remains to be seen. 
Can you get the guys, too? 

732
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:50,400
That he needs to run the system 
that he wants to run or can he 

733
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,199
adapted a little bit two guys 
that he has? 

734
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,000
That remains to be seen but I 
think it would be hard to look 

735
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,200
at some of the things that he's 
done and say like this guy you 

736
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,500
just can't coach. 
You don't stick around whether 

737
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:03,200
it be as a head coach or on the 
sidelines of an MBA people 

738
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,700
talked about. 
We went back to the Nicks has an

739
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:08,200
assistant like how they you 
know, had an uptick in 

740
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,100
performance as well. 
So I don't think you stick 

741
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:12,100
around in the league that long 
it's hard to keep a head 

742
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:13,600
coaching job for a long time in 
the NBA. 

743
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,700
Yeah. 
But I don't think you stick 

744
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:18,200
around in the league that long 
without without having some 

745
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,800
serious, you know, coaching 
chops in that regard. 

746
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,400
So I think that part will be 
fine, it's really the personnel 

747
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,200
and how that piece of it comes 
together but a lot of good 

748
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,200
anecdotes about some is like I 
said, is in bounds plays and 

749
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,000
different things like that that 
were floating around. 

750
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,900
Yeah. 
Well and I think it's funny to 

751
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,100
that, you know, some of the 
negatives are like well, but you

752
00:35:36,107 --> 00:35:38,900
know, he he had success of the 
Knicks when he did and he a fire

753
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:41,500
and it's like so is that good? 
It's like well I mean we're all 

754
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,900
in the Bret Stephens trains Brad
Stevens could very likely get 

755
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:45,400
fired from the Celtics like two 
years. 

756
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,100
Like there's a lot of good NBA 
coaches who get We just had your

757
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:49,800
fire the NBA as a mean, you're 
bad. 

758
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:52,200
You guys might be a good fire. 
Then go to a different team and 

759
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,800
be successful. 
It's like yeah it's just it's 

760
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,600
very cyclical and I think very 
much the the leashes typically 

761
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,100
not too long for those guys and 
when it starts to go sideways 

762
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,000
you're not going to be there for
very long because there's so 

763
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,900
much money to be made and 
different things like that. 

764
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:11,100
So yeah, I don't necessarily 
concern that and then I think 

765
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:13,800
somebody else pointed out with 
the next haven't won nearly that

766
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,800
many games since he left except 
for maybe you know as he's been 

767
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,900
back more. 
More recently. 

768
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,400
So, yeah. 
And I have one more positive in 

769
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,400
less than that. 
Also, I think is lead us into 

770
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,000
some of the negatives or at 
least question marks, unless you

771
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,400
have any more positive you want 
to talk about now, keep going to

772
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,300
go with your you know, I think 
the other positive here is just 

773
00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:34,200
an immense amount of MBA ties, 
you know, I think there's any 

774
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,500
cats. 
I don't have it up in front of 

775
00:36:35,508 --> 00:36:36,800
me. 
He tweeted, go check his 

776
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,100
Twitter. 
He tweeted out a list of like 

777
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:40,500
all the NBA players that Mike, 
Woodson, his coach in some 

778
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:42,900
capacity and it's like a, who's 
who of All Stars? 

779
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:46,000
You know, obviously Carmelo 
Anthony had a great time under 

780
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,200
him. 
Jason It Allen Iverson, you 

781
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,400
know, is like Paul Pierce just 
just a ton of players who played

782
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,600
under Woodson, all have glowing 
things to say about them and 

783
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,900
that's something where I do 
think like, that's a great 

784
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:01,100
recruiting tool. 
Like, you know, I heard Mike 

785
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:02,900
wasn't talking to the end and 
Doc, it's like the first thing 

786
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:06,100
he's gonna do is go talk to 
trace Jackson, Davis, and to me 

787
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:07,800
it's like that's a real real 
pitch. 

788
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,300
It's like, hey, you know, Davis 
Jackson Trace sorry he's all 

789
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:12,300
those names. 
Are you? 

790
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:15,400
Hey Trace, he'll pick one of 
those, you know. 

791
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,300
Hey but you know hey I'm gonna 
help you. 

792
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,400
Get to the NBA because I know 
what NBA coaches are looking for

793
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,200
because I was one and I talked 
to them. 

794
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,600
And hey, do you want to talk to 
Thibodeaux? 

795
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,900
All right. 
Do you want to talk to, you 

796
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:26,900
know, DeAndre Thomas? 
Because I coached him or do I 

797
00:37:26,908 --> 00:37:28,200
talk to Colonel? 
Anthony come early. 

798
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,100
Anthony could tell you right 
now. 

799
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:30,800
Here he is on, Zoom like 
Carmelo. 

800
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,700
Tell, Tracy was got to work on 
for his game to make it the NBA.

801
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:37,900
It's like that's very compelling
and he's got a plethora of Guys,

802
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,400
across eras and interested he 
can talk to. 

803
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,800
I think that's that's a huge 
piece. 

804
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:45,100
This leads me into some of the 
question marks. 

805
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:47,700
Is that one, you know, as we 
talked about Hurting. 

806
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:51,100
It's like all the recruiting is 
based on him bringing in other 

807
00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:53,600
people, taking the end. 
It's got to be, people have to 

808
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,200
have to want to play for woods 
and I would all say the MBA Tais

809
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,600
while I'm excited about that, 
it's not like other coaches 

810
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,000
don't have connections to NBA 
players that we talked about 

811
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,700
that with Tom crean like well 
Tom crean has to Wade Wade and 

812
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:06,100
that gets you a LeBron, you 
know. 

813
00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:10,100
He has Victor Oladipo it's like 
I think Tom Izzo could call up, 

814
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:17,300
you know oh God come on the 
green frame. 

815
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,400
Agreed, get his phone call 
returned and probably get on the

816
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,000
line with yo Steph Curry or Klay
Thompson or one of those guys or

817
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:28,800
a variety of other NBA players. 
So I well I think that's a 

818
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,900
positive for us. 
I also don't think it's Unique 

819
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:36,400
to us, some of the other, you 
know, concerns that I have. 

820
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,400
And then I want to hear some of 
yours. 

821
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,500
Is that, you know, the age thing
is something that has to be 

822
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:45,400
talked about, like, he is 63 
years old. 

823
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:47,700
It's not bad. 
I mean, I'm getting We're all 

824
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:50,700
getting older. 
So I not ageism but even on his 

825
00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:53,200
interview with dokic today, he 
said that, you know, he was 

826
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,600
talking to Patrick Ewing and 
Ewing was surprised that, you 

827
00:38:55,607 --> 00:38:59,300
know, when he was going out to 
recruit all the father's, loved 

828
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:02,000
Patrick Ewing, but the students 
that he was trying the players, 

829
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,800
he was trying to get had no idea
who he was and we all 

830
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,700
Collective. 
I you we know who Mike Woodson 

831
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:12,800
is, I'm going to be honest, 
like, not nationally. 

832
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,800
You just don't like, if you 
don't know who Patrick Ewing is,

833
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,300
you don't know who Mike Woodson 
is. 

834
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,800
And so I do wonder how much any 
of that is going to hold that, 

835
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,000
you know, maybe the fathers are 
going to be very impressed in 

836
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,600
the High School, coaches, run 
Indiana, but are the players 

837
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:29,000
going to care about? 
You know, somebody who is as 

838
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,600
old, as their grandparents. 
I may just it has to be brought 

839
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,100
up. 
I think it just is a question 

840
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:36,300
mark. 
So that's I have a, I have a 

841
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:38,500
couple others, but I want to 
hear some of, you know, as you 

842
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:42,000
look at, you know, what are some
of the concerns as you look at 

843
00:39:42,008 --> 00:39:43,800
the Mike Woodson. 
That model hiring? 

844
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:46,800
Yeah, I think that. 
I mean, I think the recruiting 

845
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,600
and that one is Really. 
The biggest one is how I don't 

846
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,600
wanna stay motivated. 
He is but it is a lot. 

847
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,000
It's something he hasn't done 
before from that standpoint. 

848
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,300
I know he's made the point, your
recruiting and the NBA but I 

849
00:39:59,300 --> 00:40:02,300
think that's a bit. 
It's different in both of a good

850
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:03,900
and a bad way. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

851
00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:08,800
But yeah his name doesn't 
necessarily have the same cache 

852
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,000
a walking into somebody's living
room as other guys. 

853
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,600
But the flip side of that is I 
don't know. 

854
00:40:16,100 --> 00:40:18,100
You know, there's plenty of 
other guys who are coaches who 

855
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:20,500
the people aren't going to have 
heard of or can't go do quick 

856
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:22,200
research about and see, 
whatever. 

857
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,700
I think, I think you're right. 
The NBA connections are great 

858
00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:30,000
and sound great on the surface. 
But everybody at most major 

859
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,100
programs has somebody that 
they've put in the league who 

860
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:34,800
can do that. 
Now, he may have some older guys

861
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,800
who he's really work with and 
maybe that from a Player 

862
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,600
Development standpoint becomes 
really important as to being 

863
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,100
able to being able to talk 
through like, hey, here's here's

864
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:43,800
how I've done it. 
I thought the trace stuff was 

865
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,400
interesting as well, where you 
said, you Here's how you know 

866
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,100
want to talk to him about. 
Here's what I think you need to 

867
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:50,900
do to get to Lee. 
Here's here's how I can help you

868
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:53,500
do it because I don't think 
that's the kind of help that 

869
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:57,000
traces really gotten whether 
that was because he didn't want 

870
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,200
it. 
Archie, didn't offer it? 

871
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,900
I don't, we can all his draft 
stock, reflects it, we can lead 

872
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:05,900
into that, but yeah, you know, I
think if there was a selling 

873
00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:09,100
point there for him, there could
be a selling point for other 

874
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:11,700
guys that said, hey, I've spent 
20 plus years in the NBA. 

875
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:15,300
I understand what is, what is 
needed in today's game. 

876
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,300
And here's how I'm going to, 
here's how I'm going to get it 

877
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:22,900
to you, but I also think he's 
not necessarily going to be the 

878
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:26,700
you know rah-rah guy necessarily
out in front of it. 

879
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:30,800
So you know I think his approach
to recruiting is going to be 

880
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,600
interesting. 
Only because we can't after 

881
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,400
listening to him talk and 
whatever old videos and a press 

882
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,900
conference. 
A radio interview today, really 

883
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:43,000
understand like, you know what 
how that's going to go when 

884
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,500
you're talking to a recruit but 
I think the age of thing is part

885
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,400
of it, but I also think you just
his approach to, it seemed 

886
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,900
pretty matter-of-fact and and 
whatever else. 

887
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:56,000
So I think it'll be interesting 
to see how that plays now 

888
00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:58,700
depending upon, who you surround
yourself with from an assistant 

889
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:01,300
standpoint, what role model 
could play in that, and kind of 

890
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:04,000
advising him a guiding him 
through that, maybe you mitigate

891
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,100
some of those things, but that's
to me is the biggest one of how 

892
00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:09,400
you do that. 
And with all the guys in the 

893
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,500
transfer porter portal, maybe 
that's a little bit easier where

894
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:16,200
you can, at least initially you 
can go to Get some guys that you

895
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,300
think are going to be a good fit
for your system, you get them 

896
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:19,700
in. 
You start to have some success 

897
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,900
and then every conversation 
becomes easier because you've 

898
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:23,200
actually started have some 
success. 

899
00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:27,700
So I mean not that, not only 
flipped so good, I say not to 

900
00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:29,600
keep flip, not to keep 
flip-flopping on the recruiters 

901
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,000
for you get off. 
That is as I got to be flipping 

902
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,100
on the positive and negative, 
but it's like it also is, you 

903
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:37,200
know, it's like when we had our 
cheese like we're gonna get 

904
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,800
Bruiser flint and Bruiser 
phone's going to recruit the 

905
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,000
guys and then it's like you hear
a lot of guys like, oh and I was

906
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,100
recruited because the assistant 
coach, not the not the head 

907
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:47,000
coach and so it's like how much 
is Woodson important. 

908
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,400
But then is like, but it is what
we talked about now. 

909
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,600
But I would also say to it's 
like winds kind of solve all of 

910
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,900
this because if your, if your 
bread under word or you're, you 

911
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:59,400
know, it's like your holtmann. 
It's like maybe you just kind of

912
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,800
come and say, look man we're 
rolling we got, you know, your 

913
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,700
is oh, like how much do kids 
really think is those cool? 

914
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:07,300
Which is like I know that's a 
program that is consistent and 

915
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:11,000
can get things done and I'm 
going to the program not so much

916
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,000
the coach. 
But again maybe it may be the 

917
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,600
assistant coach is the one 
recruiting me. 

918
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,100
So I it's I can flip up them at 
a bunch of different ways, you 

919
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:22,800
know, the other thing he said on
Deck Edge that was kind of 

920
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,300
perked my ears up at was you 
talked about recruiting the 

921
00:43:26,308 --> 00:43:28,300
state and different things like 
that and he's like I don't even 

922
00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:31,400
know if I need to leave the 
state of Indiana to, you know, 

923
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:34,800
you know everything I need can 
be right here and I you know 

924
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,800
that's certainly Hyperbole and 
everything. 

925
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,900
I think these guys are saying 
and some of these situations is 

926
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:43,100
said for a reason and I think by
the same way that Archie talked 

927
00:43:43,100 --> 00:43:44,900
about the importance of that, 
and that was one of the areas 

928
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:47,400
that he Seeded at least earlier 
in his career there. 

929
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,600
If you guys as a, you know, got 
later through here that were 

930
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:52,800
mrs. 
And things like that. 

931
00:43:52,800 --> 00:44:00,000
But, you know, again, if you 
want to be concerned about how 

932
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,100
what his approach to recruiting 
to be and how that's going to go

933
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:04,700
like hearing that is a statement
might make you a little bit 

934
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:06,000
concerned. 
Is it like do you really think 

935
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,100
you can do that? 
Is that just because that's all 

936
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:10,600
that you really want to recruit 
is that, you know, because 

937
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,600
you're not really embracing the 
totality of all the stuff you 

938
00:44:12,607 --> 00:44:15,100
have to do. 
Like I don't know again that, 

939
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:17,600
that that's probably One quote 
in and spinning it too far. 

940
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,600
But I think, for me, most of the
question marks fall within that 

941
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:28,300
kind of recruiting and how you 
get, how you get players again, 

942
00:44:28,300 --> 00:44:32,000
if you're able to show Player 
Development with the guys that 

943
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,400
you have, and you're able to 
show wins, then I think it takes

944
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,500
care of itself. 
If that doesn't happen early on 

945
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,100
in, and it puts more of a burden
on you, to go, get guys. 

946
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:48,400
Is he wanting to really grind in
that way and the you and 

947
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,700
comment. 
I also thought was interesting 

948
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:53,700
of like I just didn't know how 
involved this was essentially. 

949
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:56,700
It was the gist of the comment 
so and I don't think he has a 

950
00:44:56,707 --> 00:44:59,000
way to know how involved it was 
going into it. 

951
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,400
He's just going to have to see 
because it isn't an offer from I

952
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,700
you today isn't what it was when
he was playing in four years 

953
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:11,400
after he was playing and I you 
like that's not enough anymore 

954
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,900
in the same way that we talked 
about, you know, kind of how the

955
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:16,600
program is. 
You've done a variety of levels 

956
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,200
like that doesn't really hold 
the same weight. 

957
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,400
So there's more work required to
do that versus you hear all 

958
00:45:23,408 --> 00:45:26,300
these guys, the get interviewed 
about the night Recruitment and 

959
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:28,400
he was like, basically. 
So you coming or what once he 

960
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,300
had zeroed in on who he wanted? 
Yeah, I don't think that, I 

961
00:45:31,308 --> 00:45:32,800
don't think that works anymore. 
I'm pretty sure. 

962
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,300
So you have to have to figure 
out how he's going to navigate 

963
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:37,500
those those Waters. 
Yeah. 

964
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,300
The other thing that, you know, 
Ryan brought this up on the 

965
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:44,700
assembly call which I think is 
fair, very fair point that You 

966
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:49,800
know I've never I'm I grew up in
Bloomington so I'm an IU guy. 

967
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,200
Deep, I never thought we needed 
to get an eye you guys coach. 

968
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,700
Like I just want to get the best
coach. 

969
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:57,800
I just want to win but I do 
think this is a nice spot where 

970
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,500
it's like, all right. 
We can now put this to bed 

971
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:02,800
forever like if it works then 
maybe that maybe this is the way

972
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,700
we need to go down. 
Maybe maybe that was something 

973
00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:07,200
need to be looked at if it 
doesn't work. 

974
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,300
I do agree. 
It's like I can we stop. 

975
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,700
We did it, like we stop talking 
about it? 

976
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:15,500
Like I think either way we now 
have that answer is like We need

977
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:19,200
how important it is to have the 
IU guy in the ties and all that 

978
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,700
stuff. 
It's like you look at Kansas at 

979
00:46:21,700 --> 00:46:24,700
just a random example. 
It's like, you know, they bill 

980
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:28,100
self is really a value ties and 
or sorry, it says Kansas Kansas 

981
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:31,800
ties and he did a doing okay. 
There, you know, North Carolina 

982
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,200
was more important to them. 
They got a guy who had the ties,

983
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,600
but it's like, I'm a happy to 
get this question finally 

984
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,200
answers. 
It wasn't to keep percolating 

985
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,300
every single time. 
Ryan also mentioned, I think 

986
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:46,200
this is a fair point to that. 
If things go sideways or just 

987
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,800
not going, well it's going to be
tougher to fire Woodson than 

988
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,300
just a random coach you brought 
in because of all the ties 

989
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:55,600
because of all the connections 
because he's close with, so many

990
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,200
of the old players, like it's 
going to be, he's probably going

991
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,600
to get an extra year whether you
like it or not. 

992
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,900
And this is also again, the flip
side where the age maybe comes 

993
00:47:03,900 --> 00:47:05,800
in to be a help. 
It's like, because we're kind of

994
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,000
looking at like a six-year term 
either one way or the other. 

995
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:15,600
Yeah, I agree with you. 
I think it'll be People can 

996
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,600
argue. 
This is 20 years too late. 

997
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,800
They should have done this 
hour-long, go abroad. 

998
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,300
And I you guy like I said 
before, I don't know that I've 

999
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:25,000
ever subscribed to that, but I'm
also willing to admit that maybe

1000
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,000
that's a blind spot for me of 
not really realizing how much 

1001
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,900
that matters in this is. 
Yep, one way or another, gonna 

1002
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,900
get a tell that story. 
I think because if it doesn't 

1003
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:38,700
work out, at least you've gone 
down that road and said, hey, 

1004
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:41,700
we've tried to do this. 
We've tried to reconcile the 

1005
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:43,800
past with the present and all of
those kinds of things. 

1006
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,300
And And what's made a lot of, a 
lot of comments to that effect 

1007
00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:50,100
when he was in the press 
conference, in particular, 

1008
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:53,600
really trying to bridge the gap 
and use that comment A Lot G or 

1009
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,300
bringing the the old timers as 
he said with with the newer guys

1010
00:47:57,300 --> 00:48:00,800
and really kind of bringing the 
program back together. 

1011
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,300
In that regard. 
Even, you know, even mentioned 

1012
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:07,400
Josh Smith who as we know will 
always be part of the IE family,

1013
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:15,500
he retired his jersey retired as
recruitment so But I do think 

1014
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:17,400
it'll tell because that's been 
such an area. 

1015
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,900
Maybe if we have a banner for 
Indiana's. 

1016
00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:21,600
Number one all-time big. 
Tina all-time NCAA, people get 

1017
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,200
her number one. 
All-time recruit never played 

1018
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,700
here. 
I never put a banner for that. 

1019
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,800
Yeah. 
But yeah. 

1020
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,600
So I think that's like it or 
not, that's important. 

1021
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,000
And like I said earlier, I think
that you know I may have misread

1022
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,400
the importance of that over the 
course of time, just listening 

1023
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,200
to him. 
Talk about it. 

1024
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,100
Now obviously the reactions from
any former player that has 

1025
00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:43,200
turned up have all been really 
positive in that regard but I 

1026
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:48,100
think that's what you'd expect. 
Spect and so it remains to be 

1027
00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:50,100
seen. 
I think that's a difficult job 

1028
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:53,000
for him though, too. 
Because there's kind of been 

1029
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,700
that Line in the Sand of night. 
Guys, and post night guys, 

1030
00:48:57,700 --> 00:49:01,200
essentially how he's really able
to bring some of that together 

1031
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,700
will be a challenge, but you 
also have a lot of guys who have

1032
00:49:04,700 --> 00:49:08,800
played after night left that are
still passionate about Indiana 

1033
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,700
basketball. 
I think if he's able to navigate

1034
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:15,200
that and bring that all together
with guys from Yo, across the 

1035
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,100
Spectrum. 
That'll be really interesting. 

1036
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,000
I think a guy like Jared 
Jeffries is maybe somebody who 

1037
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,100
can help bridge that Gap. 
He tweeted a little bit. 

1038
00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:23,600
I think you're at asked him 
about it. 

1039
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,100
He's got experience with Woodson
from his time, with the Knicks 

1040
00:49:27,100 --> 00:49:29,500
and you know it's kind of in 
that transitional time period 

1041
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:33,300
between night Davis so maybe 
there's an opportunity for him 

1042
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:37,100
to do that. 
But yeah, I like you, I'm like 

1043
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:38,400
it or not. 
I think it at least put that 

1044
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,800
argument to least. 
We'll get an answer to like 

1045
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,200
whether that is could have work 
now. 

1046
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,500
We'll never know. 
Oh well, they're doing that 15 

1047
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:47,200
years ago would have made any 
difference. 

1048
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,300
I'm sure people will try to tell
you that it would have. 

1049
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,200
I don't know that it that's true
or not, but it will be 

1050
00:49:53,207 --> 00:49:56,800
interesting. 
But I think that's a maybe more 

1051
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,300
difficult task than perceived to
really bring all of that back 

1052
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:02,400
together in some kind of 
cohesive way. 

1053
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:04,800
That their bread, do you think 
it's needed? 

1054
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,800
And he seems to have a passion 
around doing that based on his 

1055
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,600
passion for the program. 
So we'll, we'll see how that 

1056
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,500
actually manifest itself. 
And what that actually means two

1057
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:15,400
guys that are on. 
Yeah. 

1058
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,100
Yeah, I would say this again 
back to my initial thought, you 

1059
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:23,200
know, I it has seemed like, you 
know, listening to coach to 

1060
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,600
sahni and a lot of the lot of 
the podcast I've listened to 

1061
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:27,700
that. 
Most people are kind of 

1062
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,400
justifying his in the right word
but kind of coming around like 

1063
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:31,900
alright, this wasn't what I was 
expecting. 

1064
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:35,300
I'm a little bit underwhelmed 
but let's find the positives 

1065
00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:37,900
here and there's some real 
positives here, you know, and a 

1066
00:50:37,900 --> 00:50:40,200
lot of people are also saying 
that, you know, I'm excited to 

1067
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,300
see who is assistant coaches 
are, which I find I agree with. 

1068
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:46,400
I also, So find it funny because
it's like, all right, if you 

1069
00:50:46,900 --> 00:50:50,600
theoretically if you nail the 
hire, nobody gives a shit who 

1070
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,000
the assistant coaches are like, 
let's just pretend to get a 

1071
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,800
world like, hey, we hired Brad 
Stevens. 

1072
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,000
No one's next questions. 
Like who's number two assistant 

1073
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,600
going to be? 
It's like so there is a part 

1074
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,600
where like the fact that people 
are so Iran. 

1075
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,800
The assistance kind of means 
like maybe we're confused. 

1076
00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:09,600
All that said, I think it's good
that you can be a little 

1077
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,100
skeptical on some of these 
things. 

1078
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:13,900
You don't need to be all in. 
You shouldn't be all out. 

1079
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,100
I think we can come to a point 
where it's like, all right, I'm 

1080
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:20,500
I will speak for myself. 
I was a little bit underwhelmed.

1081
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:23,500
I was like, okay, that wasn't 
that wasn't where my head was 

1082
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:25,000
at. 
I wasn't expecting that that 

1083
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,000
wasn't on my top list, but as 
I've given it more time and more

1084
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,400
thought, I see a lot of 
positives and I see a lot of 

1085
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,000
reasons why this could work. 
I see a lot of ways that this 

1086
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,000
could be a great move for IU. 
And like I said, I love seeing 

1087
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,600
Dolson. 
Take a chance here. 

1088
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,300
This is a real. 
It's not a gamble but it's just,

1089
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:46,700
it's a Very unique way of doing 
it with the fad bottom piece. 

1090
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:49,300
We haven't talked and I think we
probably talked enough about 

1091
00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:51,600
that here, but I think we're 
both kind of, not sure exactly 

1092
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,700
what that role is going to be. 
I like that to me in the end. 

1093
00:51:56,700 --> 00:51:59,700
I like that Dolson did something
that's a little bit more unique 

1094
00:51:59,700 --> 00:52:02,500
and different than just saying. 
All right, we're going to bring 

1095
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:05,500
in, you know, Eric Musselman. 
And you know, this just kind of 

1096
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:09,000
do what we always do. 
What we've always done, this is 

1097
00:52:09,008 --> 00:52:12,300
a little more different and you 
know, innovators look, silly on 

1098
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:14,800
the get go until they We'll 
catch up to him. 

1099
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:19,800
So I'm coming around on it I 
think it's okay if you're a 

1100
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,400
little bit skeptical and have 
some questions you don't need to

1101
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,600
be all in and you shouldn't be 
all out. 

1102
00:52:25,100 --> 00:52:28,200
Yeah, I agree with what you said
before if you're if you've 

1103
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,300
already chalked it up as a 
failure or if you already 

1104
00:52:30,300 --> 00:52:32,700
chalked it up to the greatest 
decision anyone's ever made, 

1105
00:52:33,900 --> 00:52:36,200
your you've already made your 
mind up about a lot of other 

1106
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,100
things and really it wouldn't it
almost wouldn't matter if coach 

1107
00:52:39,100 --> 00:52:43,500
was right and so yeah I'm like 
you I we did. 

1108
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,700
J-horror had sent in a question 
for us last week. 

1109
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:48,500
On a, somebody called radio and 
it was just different, like, 

1110
00:52:48,500 --> 00:52:49,900
buckets of where you put people 
in. 

1111
00:52:49,900 --> 00:52:53,000
And I think what sin was in the 
kind of underwhelmed. 

1112
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,100
I think the category was 
underwhelmed, but I'll talk 

1113
00:52:55,100 --> 00:52:57,600
myself into it by the time the 
season starts or by the summer. 

1114
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,600
Like I feel like that's and 
that's what I said. 

1115
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,800
That's what I said then. 
And that's, that's kind of how I

1116
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,300
feel. 
Now, like I said, I'd be, I'd be

1117
00:53:04,300 --> 00:53:10,400
interested to think about How 
you would view Woodson if not 

1118
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,800
for all the few days of the 
stevia scoop blah, if it was the

1119
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,300
only thing now, people are going
to point out will, you know, he 

1120
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:20,000
wasn't really a candidate for 
any other college coaching jobs,

1121
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,700
or any of that kind of. 
Like I don't think he wanted 

1122
00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:25,400
another College coaching job 
like in listening to him. 

1123
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,100
Talk about it. 
He had expressed interest in the

1124
00:53:28,107 --> 00:53:31,700
job at some point in the past 
didn't make it clear when that 

1125
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:34,500
was. 
But I also you know, there's 

1126
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:37,000
some things that you would, you 
know, only do for A certain 

1127
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,400
place like right, it's not like 
he's gonna go coach, Austin 

1128
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,900
Peay, just because he really 
wants to get into college 

1129
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:47,000
coaching, I think he won and the
flip side, the flip side County 

1130
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,400
boards. 
Like the flip side counts to 

1131
00:53:50,500 --> 00:53:53,000
like just sorry to interrupt you
but that's what I do like but 

1132
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,200
the flips it's like I'm you 
shoot from Ryan so it's cool. 

1133
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,100
I know, I know I know but it's 
like no but I think your point 

1134
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:00,700
is valid like yeah like yes 
Woodson would have been hired by

1135
00:54:00,700 --> 00:54:03,500
any other college but on the 
flip side, it's like when you 

1136
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:06,600
look at I use list it was like 
we had a bunch of other random 

1137
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,400
Assistant coaches. 
I gotta know who the second 

1138
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,400
assistant for the Raptors is but
like nobody was talking about 

1139
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,700
him for the IU job. 
Like like yeah, what's it's not 

1140
00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:16,300
like, hey, can I go get the 
Tulane job? 

1141
00:54:16,300 --> 00:54:18,000
I've no connection there. 
But yeah, like the pace. 

1142
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,800
I mean, you know, I use Muscle 
not looking at like, who's the 

1143
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,300
Sacramento, Kings number one, 
assist. 

1144
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:25,200
I think we should hire him like 
it goes both ways. 

1145
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:31,000
Yeah, yes, I so like I said, I 
feel like I'm I'm talking myself

1146
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,600
into it. 
And like I said, the beginning, 

1147
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,600
I don't really know. 
As a fan, I'm not totally sure 

1148
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,300
what the upside is for talking 
yourself out of it. 

1149
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:43,200
And it's like, we all want, I 
you to have success in a way 

1150
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,600
that they've been completely 
unable to sustain for however 

1151
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,500
many years now. 
So he might be the guy, he might

1152
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:52,900
not be, but for now I am in a 
probably talked myself into it 

1153
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:55,700
and say, hey, here's the ways 
that this could work in the same

1154
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:57,700
way that everybody talk 
themselves into Archie Miller 

1155
00:54:57,700 --> 00:54:59,500
and said, hey, this is an 
up-and-coming coached. 

1156
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,900
Here's how this is going to work
and even, With in Seasons would 

1157
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:07,100
say, oh, there's progress being 
made here, like, that's kind of 

1158
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:10,100
what you do as a fan and then 
reach a point, whatever it is. 

1159
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:12,600
And I think everybody reach that
it at different points with 

1160
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:17,200
Archie was okay, look, this 
isn't this isn't working, there 

1161
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,100
needs to be some kind of 
different direction and we need 

1162
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:20,800
to move on and figure out what 
that is. 

1163
00:55:21,500 --> 00:55:25,500
So to me I just think that's the
general way you approach it and 

1164
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:28,400
if I'm even more pleasantly 
surprised that things really go 

1165
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,500
well with Woodson than great and
if they don't Like, I'm not 

1166
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:34,600
going to feel better being able 
to say, like, well, I didn't 

1167
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,400
ever believed in this in the 
first place. 

1168
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,600
So, somehow feel Vindicated that
it didn't work before four years

1169
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,700
later and shoving somebody's 
face in it. 

1170
00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:45,800
So, I think, you know, there's a
lot of reasons to believe that 

1171
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,000
it could work and could be a 
little bit different and because

1172
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,700
it isn't what other people would
do. 

1173
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,600
Maybe they're onto something. 
At the very least, Dolson has, 

1174
00:55:55,900 --> 00:56:00,200
at least a track record, thus, 
far of being decisive and being 

1175
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,700
able to Yo, move multiple 
programs in a positive 

1176
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:07,600
direction. 
So, to me, he gets a little bit 

1177
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,700
of benefit of the doubt, but 
he's also putting his ass on the

1178
00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:12,600
line. 
Bye-bye, going about it this 

1179
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,300
way. 
In a non-traditional way, which 

1180
00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:15,900
is not to say that. 
If you hired muscle, man, it 

1181
00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:17,600
didn't work out. 
It would be any different. 

1182
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,600
But you went a little bit off 
the board with what you were 

1183
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,700
doing. 
So, at some point, you got to 

1184
00:56:24,700 --> 00:56:28,300
trust his instincts and say he 
thinks this is going to work and

1185
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:31,700
is putting the structure around 
Woodson in place. 

1186
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,200
To help ensure that it works 
because nobody stands to benefit

1187
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,700
more from this working out than 
Scott Olson. 

1188
00:56:38,300 --> 00:56:41,100
He gets that program humming 
with everything else that's 

1189
00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:43,300
going on base, good. 
You got everything humming. 

1190
00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:46,000
I think that he's like, then 
he's like build the damn statue 

1191
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,600
of me on front of, you know, 
whatever and move along. 

1192
00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:53,300
So he has a lot to lose if this 
doesn't go well. 

1193
00:56:53,300 --> 00:56:57,400
So to think that he did this, 
just because it's a night guy or

1194
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,200
it's a you know, and I you guy 
or whatever like a lot more due 

1195
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,100
diligence. 
Into this than any of us will 

1196
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:07,800
probably ever know about. 
And so I'm willing to give it a 

1197
00:57:07,808 --> 00:57:11,700
chance and try to understand the
negatives and be aware of what 

1198
00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:17,100
those are, but also embrace the 
pieces of it that are positive 

1199
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:18,400
and suggest things could really 
work. 

1200
00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:20,800
So I guess you had it out of 
here on this. 

1201
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,300
I kind of touched on this 
earlier kind of throughout my 

1202
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:27,600
thoughts but how do you how do 
you judge success moving 

1203
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:29,200
forward? 
Like, I know it's an open-ended 

1204
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,700
question but I'll leave you. 
You know, open timeline. 

1205
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:36,200
How how do you judge success for
Mike Woodson? 

1206
00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:40,100
Yeah, not getting smoked by 
Indiana State in the first game 

1207
00:57:40,100 --> 00:57:42,500
would be a good start I'll just 
throw that out there schedule a 

1208
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:46,600
schedule wisely Mike for the 
first game of your for your 

1209
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:47,700
first game. 
That's good. 

1210
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,600
That's probably my biggest. 
Yeah, a lot of states in a lot 

1211
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,000
of directions. 
Yeah. 

1212
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,200
I was able to school. 
Yeah, the more directions, the 

1213
00:57:54,200 --> 00:58:02,300
better than just kind of figure 
it out from there. 500 in the 

1214
00:58:02,308 --> 00:58:05,100
Big Ten was had his best year in
the first year at Nine and Nine.

1215
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:06,700
And I think that's one of the 
things you look back at that 

1216
00:58:06,700 --> 00:58:08,400
where it's like, hey maybe he's 
gonna do this, these aren't his 

1217
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,700
guys, he had some guys on that 
team who I felt like he really 

1218
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:14,000
was able to get to buy into what
he was doing. 

1219
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,900
He saw Freddy McSwain, Prairie 
play really well in that 

1220
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:19,200
scenario and like those were, I 
think, in some ways, the kinds 

1221
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,400
of guys that he will work with 
the best. 

1222
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:25,200
Yeah. 
So but you know, so it's now 

1223
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:30,200
been three seasons and four of 
the last five where I you hasn't

1224
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,100
even been 500 in the Big Ten. 
I think if you're able to get to

1225
00:58:34,900 --> 00:58:37,000
and 500 the Big Ten more often 
than not is going to get you in 

1226
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,000
the tournament, although 
apparently this year's 

1227
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,700
tournament format suggested, the
big tennis terrible depending on

1228
00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:45,300
who you listen to. 
So I think if you're able to 

1229
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,100
your point within the first 
couple Seasons really get show 

1230
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:49,500
progress. 
Get yourself to that five 

1231
00:58:49,500 --> 00:58:51,800
hundred, mark. 
I do think the being pretty 

1232
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,400
thing that you brought up is, is
important and I think and I 

1233
00:58:56,408 --> 00:59:02,900
don't know how to quantify this 
one, but being able to Convey 

1234
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:05,500
the recruiting pieces, what 
we've all got concerns about, 

1235
00:59:05,500 --> 00:59:07,300
right? 
So I don't know how you show. 

1236
00:59:07,300 --> 00:59:09,400
You really got your feet 
underneath you from a recruiting

1237
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:13,000
perspective and that you're kind
of starting to understand that 

1238
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,700
part of the job. 
So that's a little bit harder to

1239
00:59:15,700 --> 00:59:19,400
quantify but I think if you're 
able to do that then a lot of 

1240
00:59:19,408 --> 00:59:22,100
the negatives you start to quell
some of those fears which I 

1241
00:59:22,107 --> 00:59:27,300
think is important but I think 
while he may be given a little 

1242
00:59:27,300 --> 00:59:30,900
bit more leeway, it also isn't 
it? 

1243
00:59:30,900 --> 00:59:32,800
I mean maybe it's me. 
Is a complete rebuild, depending

1244
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,300
upon how many guys in the 
portal, or there. 

1245
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,100
But like I said, I do think you 
can turn things quickly if 

1246
00:59:37,100 --> 00:59:40,100
you're able to identify guys and
I think even understanding who's

1247
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:43,400
back and who's in this program 
from a transfer perspective. 

1248
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,200
Next year is going to be a 
really good indication of the. 

1249
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,300
You have a good idea of the 
kinds of guys that you need to 

1250
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:50,700
win and are they buying into 
what you're doing? 

1251
00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:54,000
And I think you can see that as 
early as your one that might not

1252
00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:57,600
get you to the NCAA tournament 
but should set the stage for you

1253
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,700
to either bring in other 
transfers because you got 

1254
00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:01,300
coaches out there who are doing 
a great job of this. 

1255
01:00:01,300 --> 01:00:04,700
Everything Your muscle known as 
one beer done this, the Texas 

1256
01:00:04,700 --> 01:00:06,700
not to you know keep bringing up
other guys whose names are 

1257
01:00:06,700 --> 01:00:08,900
mentioned for the job. 
But they've been able to plug 

1258
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:12,700
holes with those and Muslims 
case almost assemble entire 

1259
01:00:12,700 --> 01:00:16,600
rosters at various points of 
yeah, of transfers. 

1260
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,900
So if you're able to do that 
this year, then you become a 

1261
01:00:18,900 --> 01:00:21,800
potential destination there. 
So I do really think get into a 

1262
01:00:21,808 --> 01:00:23,400
tournament within the first 
couple of years. 

1263
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,200
Feels like a bar that you need 
to clear and then as you get out

1264
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:30,900
further than that you know into 
you know your three your for, 

1265
01:00:31,300 --> 01:00:33,700
are you You really pushing at 
that point for what we wanted 

1266
01:00:33,700 --> 01:00:37,800
Archie to push for in year four 
of being, you know, top four top

1267
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:42,000
five of the Big Ten being able 
to get a, you know, a decent 

1268
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:43,900
tournament run in there 
somewhere. 

1269
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:48,100
I think the the four-year 
trajectory expectations, 

1270
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:50,800
whatever that people had for 
Archie is completely reasonable 

1271
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:55,300
here because I don't think 
that's, you know, I don't 

1272
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:58,800
necessarily feel like people 
were going above and beyond to 

1273
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,100
say like hey he really has to do
things that were that Have been 

1274
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:04,800
unattainable based on the amount
of time he'd been given. 

1275
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:10,000
So in that regard I think I you 
guy or not standard needs to be 

1276
01:01:10,300 --> 01:01:12,600
pretty similar to what you'd 
look at with Archie. 

1277
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,400
And so I think what we use to 
measure his performance over the

1278
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,200
last few years is probably Fair 
me. 

1279
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,200
Look at what's it to ya, gotta 
make the tournament. 

1280
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,500
He's got start making the turn, 
but you guys were getting cracks

1281
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:26,800
at it. 
But I'm, I'm a botanist big 

1282
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,900
concert in the game, every once 
in a while, that would be, that 

1283
01:01:28,900 --> 01:01:31,000
would be exciting. 
I mean, you're allowed to win 

1284
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,100
back-to-back base. 
Senator McCain's like they do 

1285
01:01:33,100 --> 01:01:34,700
play games in that on Fridays 
and Saturdays. 

1286
01:01:35,100 --> 01:01:37,400
I've heard I've there rumors, 
they plan on a Sunday. 

1287
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,200
I mean, we'll know one of these 
days but I'd love to know for 

1288
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,800
sure. 
Hey Andy, it's been great. 

1289
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,200
Having you on, man. 
Let's not do it every time we 

1290
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,900
have to get and it looks like 
you have to get a new coach to 

1291
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:49,900
get you on. 
But no, man, it's great talking 

1292
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:51,300
to you. 
Thanks for coming on, giving 

1293
01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:54,700
your Insight. 
And yeah, let's let's have a 

1294
01:01:54,700 --> 01:01:56,500
good offseason. 
Take a breath. 

1295
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,500
Enjoy this this time and get 
ready to get at it in the fall 

1296
01:02:00,500 --> 01:02:03,000
with a coach Woodson. 
And that model as our 

1297
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,900
consiglieri that's why I'm gonna
call my don't know what his 

1298
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:07,900
title is but I said she liked 
it. 

1299
01:02:07,900 --> 01:02:08,700
I thought it right. 
Girl. 

1300
01:02:08,700 --> 01:02:10,200
That room last night I thought 
of that too. 

1301
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,200
So I think we I think we throw 
that out and go at it. 

1302
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,700
Now I appreciate you. 
Appreciate you having me on and 

1303
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,600
yeah, it's good to be on it a 
hopeful time as opposed to I 

1304
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:19,100
think there was one or two of 
the games that we had. 

1305
01:02:19,100 --> 01:02:21,600
You come on the post game show 
for this year that we're we're 

1306
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,700
far from good. 
So I least I'm on your show and 

1307
01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:25,600
more positive terms than you 
were ours. 

1308
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,000
You know I look forward to 
coming on, I look forward to 

1309
01:02:28,008 --> 01:02:31,000
doing an assembly call next year
and discussing more fun 

1310
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,200
hopefully more Fun, play more 
fun offense and things to talk 

1311
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,900
about. 
So again, any bottoms from 

1312
01:02:36,900 --> 01:02:39,200
assembly called great to have 
you on, thank you all for 

1313
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listening and we'll continue to 
have more great content as we 

1314
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,800
continue to look at the Mike 
Woodson, new-hire kind of 

1315
01:02:45,808 --> 01:02:48,300
dissect, it and move forward in 
a positive manner. 

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01:02:48,500 --> 01:02:50,400
So, until next time, thank you 
all for listening. 

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This is Scott for Crimson cast 
signing off.