1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,160 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:22,360 Field Apparel. All right, folks, welcome back. 3 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,920 Scott here for Crimson Cast. I know Galen often says it's, 4 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,520 you know, hoodie season, which is true. 5 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,200 And you know Starbucks says it's pumpkin spice latte season. 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,240 It is. All those things are true. 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,800 But it is also basketball preview season. 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,360 So continuing to roll on with more basketball previews. 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,200 Super excited to have Mike decorcy on today. 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,560 You know him from Bing 10 network analyst there. 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,360 He's also the bracket analyst for Spocks for Fox Sports as 12 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,040 well as being the senior writer for Sporting News for the gosh 13 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,200 23 years. Before we get to Mike, do you 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,560 want to talk about the home network? 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,440 All of our friends there assembly call doing the work. 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Check them out. Also as always sponsor of the 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,480 home network is home field Apparel. 18 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,440 Every time I go to their website it's something new to talk 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,240 about. I talked about it a couple times 20 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:12,120 ago. Idaho man. 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,480 They have an entire 12 P piece Idaho collection. 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,640 It's awesome. I'm I I might just do a live 23 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,360 order right now. The Idaho Vandals 1982 24 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:27,000 basketball script hoodie shout out to that Connor and the team 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,040 you killed them. There's a good a good T-shirt 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,760 for the Kibby Dome some really good stuff with their mascots. 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,040 But just I love that Idaho script hoodie. 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,200 I might just order it live right now and I could probably do it 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,400 with the you know you get reward points from ordering at home 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,040 field. I've got garnered way too many 31 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,080 of those, but if you have not ordered from home field before 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,920 First off check out their Idaho collection. 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,920 You're going to like it and also use the promo code HOME 23 for 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,520 15% off your first purchase and make it a good one. 35 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,200 You got one shot at that first purchase. 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,120 I remember mine way back in the rearview mirror. 37 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,800 Enjoy it. Use the promo code HOME 23 and 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,039 get that 15% off. And without further ado, excited 39 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:14,440 to bring on Mike Decorcy on the podcast to preview value 40 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,040 basketball, talk a little Big 10, what it's like covering the 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,440 Big 10, things like that. So here is Mike Decorsi. 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,640 All right, so excited to have Mike Decorsi on. 43 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,560 Mike, how you doing? Thanks for joining Crimson Cast 44 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,480 first time. Yeah, I'm happy to do it. 45 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Everything's going well. Doing great and and man, 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,000 basketball season is coming fast. 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,960 I know it's it's right around the corner. 48 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,000 I know we were looking. I was looking at my calendar and 49 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,680 like I'm going to the the New York Empire games for IU and 50 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,000 it's like that's like three or four weeks away. 51 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,640 I mean we're getting exhibition games in like a week. 52 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:51,160 It's it's time to go. Let's go. 53 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,360 I'm tired of football. So tired of football we had. 54 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,560 An ex, You know, we've had some of those scrimmages going on 55 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,000 over the last couple of weeks and we had a a public exhibition 56 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,800 with Ohio State and Dayton playing on Sunday. 57 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,080 A game that Ohio State was able to win. 58 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,320 So it it's it's already going and then we'll play for Rio and 59 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,360 goodness, less than two weeks. It's amazing. 60 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,400 Yeah. So let's start doing a little 61 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,760 Indiana talk and then I kind of want to branch out to some other 62 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,760 Big 10 ideas because you you have a great view of the Big 10 63 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,320 as as we've been looking as IU fans, we've been looking at the 64 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,120 IU team. I think there's like a a really 65 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,440 high ceiling and a really low floor. 66 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,800 And I think it's really hard to tell kind of what's going to be 67 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:32,880 there. I'm not sure anybody knows 68 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:33,920 because there's so many questions. 69 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:36,680 But I'm curious as you view it for the pieces we brought in 70 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,280 from what Woodson has done thus far, what do you think is more 71 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,640 likely us hitting the ceiling or us, you know, going toward the 72 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,880 floor? Well, I think the first thing I 73 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,640 would say is that I don't think the floor is that low. 74 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,760 I don't think you put that much talent out there and have the 75 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,760 floor be that low. But for those who programs who 76 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,360 are accustomed to competing in the NCAA tournament or believe 77 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,000 that they should be accustomed, and I think Indiana's history 78 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,960 suggests that that although they had a a spell where it was a bit 79 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,600 elusive. And the last couple of years 80 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,120 have been tournament years and I think Indiana fans generally 81 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,800 think that's where they should be every year. 82 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,560 Just a question of the good year should be higher higher seeds. 83 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,800 1234, the tough year should be bubble type seeds or or 8 84 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,040 playing an 8-9 game. That's I think it rarely should 85 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,400 an IU team in the mind to the fans, and I think it's a fair 86 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,960 expectation rarely should an IU team miss. 87 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,080 It's probably going to change in the future. 88 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,960 As the conference gets larger, the expectations may have to 89 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,480 change because when you have 18 teams there's so many more 90 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,880 variables. But for now, with with what's 91 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,040 been established and what the league has shown it's capable of 92 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:06,760 doing in terms of procuring bids, I think that a a floor for 93 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,840 this team would be. Toughing it out in the NIT and 94 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:15,520 being disappointed and having to find some enthusiasm for that 95 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:19,800 occasion. A young team, which this team 96 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,240 is, might in some years say, well, yeah, we'll be good that 97 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,600 that we'll we'll go into there and we'll get better and we'll 98 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,280 be really good next year. I mean, Xavier did that from 99 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,760 2022 to 2023. But I think it's a little 100 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,840 different with this group because you've got guys that 101 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:38,320 you, even though they're young, wouldn't expect to be around in 102 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:44,440 25 S That NIT scenario would not be a happy one. 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,320 But I think that's probably the worst this team is going to do. 104 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,640 I think that the the, the midline, if they just if 105 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,880 something's go wrong and some things go right. 106 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,000 I think that the midline is you're competing for a. 107 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,560 Middle of the seed The middle of the field seed somewhere between 108 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,840 8:00 and 12:00. Yeah, I would I would agree with 109 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:06,440 that. I think that's for most fans. 110 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,120 For most IU fans I think we're we're looking at that rationally 111 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,240 and like just giving yourself a shot in the tournament. 112 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,840 You know you've been you're you're the bracket one of the 113 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:17,640 bracket experts on Fox Sports you've your your bracket matrix 114 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,760 is is phenomenal. You've been really good at 115 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,760 projecting the bracket. I'm curious just to get your 116 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,760 take on this, something we've harped on a lot on this podcast. 117 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,880 You know, I've been really impressed with what Mike Woodson 118 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,840 has done with the scheduling at IU. 119 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,120 You know, playing, you know, adding, adding better teams, 120 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,320 playing Kansas, you know, this year we're playing, you know, 121 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,360 Auburn on a neutral site. You know, we're playing in the 122 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,880 Empire Classic, the Atlantis Classic next year. 123 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,040 You know, we've talked about it at length on this podcast about 124 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,920 how how important those types of games are to your bracket 125 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,760 ability, so to speak, at the end of the season and how they don't 126 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,640 always hurt you. But maybe you can speak to it a 127 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,520 little bit of how you see Indiana helping themselves with 128 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,520 the scheduling that hasn't been done over the last couple of 129 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,520 coaches before Woodson. Yeah, I think one of the one of 130 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,520 the errors that was made in scheduling for Indiana probably 131 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,760 for the decade prior to my getting there was not using the 132 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:19,880 strength of IU, the attraction of Assembly Hall, the the money 133 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,040 that comes from being in the Big 10, those those elements to 134 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,520 attract a better. Class of victim so to speak. 135 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,840 The, the, the and I I I used that phrase in the in, you know 136 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,240 very much in the colloquial sports sense that that you 137 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,120 you're buying opponents that you expect to beat and you shouldn't 138 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,400 be shopping in the 300 aisle, right? 139 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,720 You should be shopping in the 150 aisle. 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,960 And IU did not do that enough before Mike got here. 141 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,920 Mike. One year though and said the 142 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,360 heck with both of those, let's just go play Kansas. 143 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:02,080 And so this year I, you know, I, you know, I now I will say play 144 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,880 opening with Florida Gulf Coast. If you think that's nothing then 145 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,400 you're not paying close enough attention because Florida Gulf 146 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,920 Coast is going to compete, going to compete for its conference 147 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,120 championship. I'm not promising they're going 148 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,880 to win it, but they're going to be in the mix. 149 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,000 Wright State is going to compete for its conference championship, 150 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,080 so they have done what I've talked about. 151 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,040 I was joking a little bit about that, but it but they they 152 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,040 really have a difficult schedule. 153 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,600 It may be too difficult, but it's it it. 154 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,640 But if they can succeed, if they can find success against this 155 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,320 schedule, then they then then we'll blow past. 156 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,600 The 8 to 12 scenario I was talking about and be in the 157 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,160 heart of the field, that's that they they they have built a 158 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,480 schedule and they you know, Kennesaw State was in the 159 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,640 tournament a year ago. They've lost some players from 160 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,920 that team, but they were in the tournament a year ago, won the 161 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,880 ace on regular season and conference tournament and pushed 162 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,840 Xavier to the very edge of their tournament lives in the first 163 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,240 round. So they have done a really smart 164 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,880 job of scheduling the by games. But I I do think that the number 165 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,880 of high end non conference games that they've lined up and you 166 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,840 know U Conn, Kansas, they'll help get them ready for the Big 167 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,920 10 for sure because they know they have to be really good to 168 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,480 compete in those games. But it will be hard for them to 169 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,080 to to be confident going into the Big 10. 170 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,960 They'd have to really perform at a really high level in November 171 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,600 and December. To get enough wins against what 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,640 they've constructed for themselves, to be able to go 173 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,520 into the Big 10 feeling great about themselves when you talk 174 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,240 about coaches shopping in the 300 aisle, which is so, so true. 175 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,240 And we saw that unfortunately too many times under the Crean 176 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,080 era where he was just scheduling, you know, five or 177 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,600 six sub 300 teams. As you look at like college 178 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,200 basketball and you talk to a lot more coaches, like why? 179 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,920 Why are some coaches so reluctant to schedule harder 180 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:09,640 games? And that is it. 181 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,320 Is it as simple as just like I want to get eight wins and give 182 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,800 myself, you know, job security, especially at a place like and 183 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,280 maybe, you know, at Indiana where it's like you have that 184 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,280 brand, you have the fans who want that. 185 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,680 Like, why do some coaches seem to kind of just kind of hole up 186 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:27,720 and schedule from a perspective of being scared versus going 187 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,640 after it? I'll be, I'll be honest Scott, I 188 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:36,040 I I never asked the question why are you scheduling these. 189 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,480 So in some cases it it that's not all you as the head coach. 190 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,760 In some cases it's what you're what what you're being budgeted. 191 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,480 So I don't know whether that was a factor for them because it 192 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,320 does cost more to buy Kennesaw State than it costs to buy the 193 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,000 team. That's 300, whoever that would 194 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,600 be. It it it because those those 195 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,040 teams, can they, they come in expecting to, you know they're 196 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,960 going to compete their tails off, but they know that if they 197 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,440 lose, it's no big deal to them. It doesn't change who they are. 198 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,960 They're going to get into the tournament based on whether they 199 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,760 win their, their, their league tournament. 200 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,920 That's it's that simple. So it doesn't hurt Kennesaw to 201 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,360 come into IU and lose. So it doesn't matter to them if 202 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,120 they're losing to IU. Where if they're losing to 203 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,760 Kentucky or Duke or Texas or whomever. 204 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,840 So sometimes you have to compete for those games. 205 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,520 Financially, if Kentucky is going to pay any. 206 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,880 I'm just using round numbers here. 207 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,840 Kentucky is going to pay 100, you have to pay 100, and if 208 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,000 you're not willing to pay 100, then you're not going to get to 209 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,560 play that team. And I don't know whether that 210 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:51,960 was a factor in. I know in some circumstances it 211 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,520 is. I don't know whether. 212 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,240 It was for IU and that's why I said Brand, You know the 213 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,800 experience of playing in Assembly Hall. 214 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,240 There are coaches I've talked to over the years, lots of them, 215 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,920 who play at that level and will say they'll go to their players 216 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,360 and say, OK, who do you want to play this year? 217 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,000 Who's your dream? Like where like I want to play 218 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,400 in Cameron Indoor Stadium, I want to play at Allen Field 219 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,000 House. Hey, there got to be some guys 220 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,760 out there that are saying I want to play at Assembly Hall in 221 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,320 Bloomington. There have to be so. 222 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,920 That, you know, so then they go to the school and they say, OK, 223 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,880 we'll play you and but sometimes, you know, it costs a 224 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,400 little bit of money. Again, I don't know whether 225 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,400 that's what held up IU schedules over the years. 226 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,280 It's clear that whatever was happening one way or the other 227 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,240 under the previous two administrations is not happening 228 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,200 now because they are both really challenging themselves at the 229 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,880 high end and they're doing a really good job of bringing in 230 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,760 teams like FGCU. And Kennesaw and teams like that 231 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,520 that are going to rate in the you know somewhere between 150 232 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:03,280 and 225 and not damage your your your net rating and other 233 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,880 factors. I'm I'm laughing only the the 234 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,880 the idea of like I really want to play into somebody hall like 235 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,400 that's not John Calipari like all all everybody else maybe 236 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,000 want to Calipari. I don't think he wants any part 237 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,840 of that different discussion You you mentioned the other 238 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,560 administrations. It's something that's been 239 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:20,560 poking around in my head as I've been doing some of these 240 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,200 previews. I I really wanted to ask you 241 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,320 this because you've been around basketball long enough. 242 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,680 I'm really curious. I I don't want to dig into the 243 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:31,440 Archie air Archie Miller era too much but I'm curious with this. 244 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,800 You know when I you hired Archie Miller he was I I've said it 245 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,000 before he was probably you know him or Chris Holtman was the 246 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,920 number one pick that that cycle and sometimes you it's a 247 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,320 different cycle. But like everything about what 248 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,480 Archie did at Dayton should have worked at a bigger school like 249 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,080 Indiana like his teams played hard. 250 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,840 They played really solid defense. 251 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,360 You know, I know, baby, with the pack line, maybe it's not the 252 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,600 best system for college basketball today. 253 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,600 But you you see this where a guy has like everything, right at a 254 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,440 mid, mid major and then he goes to a major college and it should 255 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:02,840 just be all right. We're going to pour gas in the 256 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,880 fire and it's going to work. And then it just doesn't. 257 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,120 And it's like I obviously Archie didn't work. 258 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,480 I'm not trying to rehash that. I'm just curious as someone 259 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,120 who's been around basketball long enough, what is like how? 260 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,440 How come some people make that fit and some people don't? 261 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,800 Or is it just simple as like just, you know, that's why some 262 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,440 guys make the NBA and some guys don't? 263 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,960 It's just it's odd when guys have the profile. 264 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,720 We're like, this really should work at the next level, and then 265 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,480 it just doesn't. Well, there are a couple things 266 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,800 about Arch is higher that you know, Arch is a very, you know, 267 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,360 his brother is a much more gregarious person. 268 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:42,320 Sean is much more comfortable in the salesman role. 269 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,600 Sean's Arch is a Arch is someone that he gets into a living room 270 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,760 with somebody and. Does the private stuff very 271 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,320 well. He and he showed that one of the 272 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:59,040 things that had not been working at IU for the previous four or 273 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,360 five years was not doing well with Indiana kids. 274 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,320 And there a couple of things I look at. 275 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,120 Arch is unlucky in a lot of ways. 276 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,480 First of all, they've had they had injuries at times that that 277 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,760 diminished them. Second of all. 278 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,680 There was the COVID, which they were probably going to make the 279 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,000 tournament and that never happened because of the the 280 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,160 absence of the tournament. And the third thing is I used to 281 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,960 won that B 10 tournament and in my mind they won the last game 282 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,080 in that tournament. Sorry, that's the only thing. 283 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,120 We put a banner up in Assembly Hall for that. 284 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,200 And I think the last thing is that he got into Indiana and 285 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,160 started to protect the borders pretty well in terms of the 286 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,880 prospects at a time when. It's a little bit of a dip. 287 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,920 There was still R5 star guy and there was Trace who was a 288 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,520 program legend and he got them both. 289 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,840 But there weren't a lot of guys, you know, right before that 290 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:01,240 there were like 5 five star guys in one year or five 4-5 top 50 291 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,920 guys in one year that he didn't ever have a year like that. 292 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:10,080 So that when he did protect the borders, well, it worked, for 293 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,600 not only, you know. Doing the recruiting that people 294 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,760 wanted to see, but also what would make the Hoosiers 295 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,920 significantly better. Look, he he left some players 296 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,560 that have helped the program and the the most obvious example 297 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,440 that is Trey Galloway. Trey has been a a warrior, a 298 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,520 program guy, a facilitator, A-Team guy. 299 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,400 He's everything you'd want, but you'd want that guy to be the 300 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,360 4th or 5th contributor from a recruiting class. 301 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,280 And not the guy who now stands as the most significant 302 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,800 contributor from a recruiting class. 303 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,040 Yeah, no, that makes total sense looking at current coaches as 304 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,160 you view it. How would you kind of grade 305 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,840 Woodson's tenure thus far at at Bloomington in 2 1/2 years? 306 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,840 I think he's done everything that he needed that he he that 307 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,319 he needed to do to make the to put the program on the track 308 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,280 that. People want first of all, it 309 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,800 helps that he comes in with the Bob Knight stamp of approval. 310 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,880 So a lot of the bitterness that was in place subsequent to 311 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,839 September 2000 is now gone. I mean it's it's brought the 312 00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:26,920 program back around to where the people who were still angry 313 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,920 about what happened then haven't have less reason to be angry 314 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,520 about it now because because Mike is. 315 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,800 You know he's an alum. He's an all time great. 316 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,040 He's a night guy etcetera, so he's got all of that. 317 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,920 He got the team back to the tournament twice the second, the 318 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,360 first experience was not great. I don't put that all on him 319 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,720 because they won a really tough first round game in the in the 320 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,400 in Dayton and then they got shipped to like. 321 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,440 Siberia to play the second game, It wasn't fair. 322 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,160 Like 40 hours you go from Dayton to Portland. 323 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,480 There's like no flights, yeah. One of the things that I do and 324 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,720 do in putting together the bracket, and that was one of the 325 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,240 brackets that I was able to do and I was pretty, pretty 326 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,600 successful in matching the committee generally. 327 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,080 But there were opportunities to put that game, to put IU 328 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,400 reasonably close to Dayton, a flight that wouldn't be. 329 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,240 Exhausting. I I I think the committee needs 330 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,120 to do better at that. I completely agree. 331 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:33,640 And if they're going to lock those games in at Dayton, I've 332 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,800 always said like then just give those Dayton teams a spot in the 333 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,440 Midwest. Like just give them a room where 334 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,600 they're going to Pittsburgh or Houston or just like to to have 335 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,720 them go Dayton. And like I think for IU is like 336 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,120 Dayton, you know on two days notice you're going to Dayton 337 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:48,240 and you're going to Portland. It's it's absurd like no team 338 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,760 and I think there was another team Rutgers was in the same 339 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,880 boat they were also in that I think that same final first four 340 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,320 and they went got shipped out like San Diego and it's just 341 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,440 like it's like come on like you're you're a professional 342 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,440 sport basically. I know you the NCAA doesn't want 343 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,320 to be, but you are like treat it, treat these. 344 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,240 Give these guys a shot. Yeah, whether you're a pro sport 345 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,880 or not, it's a it's a competition. 346 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,760 You got to make it fair and they're and they and that I I in 347 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,400 my final bracket. And I don't have it in front of 348 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,440 me or whatever, but I know that I accommodated the first four 349 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,480 teams by putting them reasonably close to home. 350 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,360 When I do my first four, the only times I ship a team to the 351 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,440 West is if they happen to reside in the West. 352 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,400 So they're basically going home and then they can just bust over 353 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,640 wherever they are. Putting IU on a plane to 354 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,800 Portland was egregious. It was one. 355 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,040 It was a significant failure on the committee that year. 356 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,600 I showed with my final bracket and I don't have all the tools 357 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,800 they have, So if I can do it. They can do it and that was a 358 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,960 disappointment. So there's that. 359 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,840 And then last year would like to see them do a little bit better 360 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,680 in the Miami game, but they've got in. 361 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,280 They won their first round game. So they they've done what they 362 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,120 needed to do to get the program back in the right direction. 363 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,320 And then they've recruited really well, whether it's 364 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,280 transfer Portal getting Khalil Ware. 365 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,400 Whether it's the, you know, the significant addition of 366 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,040 Mackenzie and Baco, I know this wasn't the best weekend for him. 367 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,360 But still to be able to go back into that when he did committed 368 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,800 and say hey, come to IU and they were. 369 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,760 Or the five star guys that they got a year ago, which Malik 370 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,080 Renew is still there. And then what they're bringing 371 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,200 in next year already, what they've already gotten committed 372 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,880 to the 2024 class. I think he's done everything to 373 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,040 get it right, in the right direction. 374 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,160 And then the I think this year they want to, they want to do 375 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,480 what I said before, what the fans expect, what you'll see 376 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:55,880 them projected to be on various brackets or in top 20 fives or 377 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,480 conference projections or whatever all come around the 378 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,320 same ballpark. So and then next year will be a 379 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,160 big year to have a big year. It some of it's going to depend 380 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,280 on who will remain and who won't, but it'll be a big year 381 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,040 for them to have a big year. Yeah, I agree. 382 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,040 I think this is kind of a stepping stone year and all 383 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,080 these previews it's kind of like this is the year I think we just 384 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,760 have to continue and stay in the tournament. 385 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,960 You know you mentioned like last year it while it was a 386 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,120 disappointment I, I, I reflect back on last year and you know 387 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,000 you're a protected seed you're you're on the four line. 388 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,720 You're in the tournament and not you know at some point you have 389 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,080 to have success, but it's also like it's just you you met a bad 390 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,360 a bad matchup. Like Miami was a hot team. 391 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,240 It's not like they were they you know they went to the final Four 392 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,480 like that was a good team. You met the wrong matchup. 393 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,800 I think the trouble with Indiana has been you just haven't had 394 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,040 enough shots at the at the table, so to speak. 395 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,800 It's like you only were a protected seed. 396 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,120 That was the first time in like, you know, 15 years you've been a 397 00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,000 protected seed. Where as you look at teams like, 398 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:58,440 you know, Kansas, Kentucky, where we're trying to get to 399 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,680 where they're just doing that year after year after year and 400 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,600 it's like. Not that you've just got to wait 401 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,280 for luck, but if you give yourself enough opportunities, 402 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,520 the bracket will break, you're going to play the right team, 403 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,720 you'll be the hot team. So I look at it like I don't see 404 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,160 them being a protected seed this year, but give yourself a shot 405 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,200 getting that 678 line and then who knows, maybe you you get a, 406 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,320 you get a favorable match up. But yeah, that's how I look at 407 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,120 this as well when you look at Woodson. 408 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,400 You know what do you think he the one thing you would say he 409 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,200 needs to improve on whether it's on the court or recruiting? 410 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,480 Like is there an area where you're like if Woodson did this, 411 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,800 Indiana could even unlock to the next level. 412 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,960 Well, you know I, I, I, I don't think that he's left anything 413 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,600 undone in recruiting. I mean they they've been very 414 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040 successful in in all various ways. 415 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,960 As I mentioned you you look at this year's team and you have a 416 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,200 lot of success in a lot of areas whether it's the transfer portal 417 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,600 with Ware, whether it's that late get with Imbaco which was a 418 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,920 significant win for them when you know no one knew that no one 419 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,240 knew it, they knew at some point but no one knew I don't know 420 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,600 December, January that all of a sudden there's going to be a 5 421 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,480 star guy that was available in April. 422 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,040 So there's that and then Renew was a win in the the recruiting 423 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,680 class so you you they he's shown success in all the venues on the 424 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,600 floor. They beat, they swept Purdue 425 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,400 last year which was by far the best team in the Big 10, won 426 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,560 both championships. So they haven't shown any 427 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,440 inability to step up to the biggest challenges. 428 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:47,600 They they had bad luck last year with injury with with with Trace 429 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,080 getting hurt in December. That probably cost them some 430 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,760 development time and some seed time but even from that they 431 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,960 were able to bounce back. So I I think that they've done 432 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,360 really well. I obviously what the next 433 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,240 challenge for him is you know we talk about you know you've got 434 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,320 three five star guys on this team and a senior, 5th year 435 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,400 senior point guard and we are mitigating the expectations for 436 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,560 that because there's still some questions to be answered about 437 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,280 those guys and Baco just has to get out there and be healthy and 438 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,200 I think he's going to have a significant year. 439 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,240 Where is a different kind of player Can you take, can you 440 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,760 find a system that that amplifies what he does well and 441 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:39,720 sort of shoves to the side what he maybe isn't the best at And 442 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,320 then renew, can you take him from a really good contributor? 443 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,960 I mean and look the fact that Malik Renew is back at Indiana 444 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,240 for his sophomore year after he played it as basically as a 445 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,160 reserve his entire freshman year, that's a win because 446 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,800 there's a lot of programs where he did just said I know the 447 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,040 guy's an all American but you played him instead of me. 448 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,960 I'm a 5 star guy that's. A great point. 449 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:05,920 Yeah. I'm going to market or 450 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,920 something. Yeah, And it's so. 451 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,160 But now you got to get something out of Malik and you've got to 452 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,920 put him in positions where he can excel because he committed 453 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,400 to you as, you know, as a freshman and then again as a 454 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,160 sophomore. So you've got to find a way to 455 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,400 make him have a significant sophomore year. 456 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,040 Now what that means numerically, statistically, all that is mixed 457 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,520 into however they're going to build their attack. 458 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,080 But he's got to be a baller, and that's somewhat on Malik, 459 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,960 showing up and practicing and playing hard and listening to 460 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,520 what they're asking of him, all that. 461 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,680 I think that he's going to do that. 462 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,840 So you also have to give him the opportunities to do that. 463 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,320 Now again, that doesn't mean he's got to get 15 shots a game, 464 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,480 but he's got to be out and put in positions to influence 465 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,440 success. I suspect he will be, but again, 466 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,160 we've got to see that. Yeah it's you know you're you 467 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,560 were at I think at the Cincinnati Enquirer during the 468 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,200 kind of the Bob Knight firing I was. 469 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,160 I was in college at that time. I've always, you know, I always 470 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,080 kind of took the approach of I wanted IU to hire the best 471 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,040 coach. Like I didn't want necessarily 472 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,000 whenever we had coaching searches like I don't want an IU 473 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,560 guy, I I I do or I just I want the best person. 474 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,920 I don't want to go ahead and limit it. 475 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,240 You know you mentioned kind of how Woodson has brought things 476 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,360 back, which he really has. It's. 477 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,720 It's interesting, you also being a Midwest guy, kind of knowing 478 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,040 the Indiana soup and every university, every fan base 479 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,040 thinks they're special and obviously we do too. 480 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,800 But it's it is, it is really interesting seeing what Woodson 481 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,000 has done and kind of see it's like, wow, this really was 482 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,720 important. Like it was important to bring 483 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,960 it back and it has healed. Like even just a couple days ago 484 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,200 that, you know, IU released a video with Pat Knight where he's 485 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,560 talking just, you know, telling Bob Knight stories and it's like 486 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,240 he's like we we feel welcome again and Brian Evans is there 487 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,080 and it's just like. You didn't fully realize how 488 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,600 important it was and how needed it was, and it does. 489 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,400 It really feels like Woodson is the right person at the right 490 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,520 time, at least as an IU fan. Well, I mean, I think you look 491 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,000 at Kelvin, his experience as an example of how that wound 492 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:21,000 impacted, impacted the program because at the end of the day 493 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,920 what Kelvin did. Was nothing. 494 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,240 Nothing. I know well, and honestly, 495 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,040 Indiana, I mean, it's a whole other pod like Indiana, we 496 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,600 punish ourselves way more than NCAA ever did. 497 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,920 I mean, the NCAA might have done more had we not done as much, 498 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920 but you look at it, it was all just self flogging. 499 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,200 Like Indiana just crushed ourselves. 500 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,440 Whereas it's galling when you look at like Kansas who's like 501 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,600 under FBI investigation. People are getting arrested and 502 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,040 they're just like, yeah, whatever, we're just going to 503 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,480 move on. And it's like, anyway, sorry, 504 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,080 total side note, but no, but I mean, that's really the core of 505 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,240 this because that was a product of that wound, that look, I 506 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,480 think Kelvin's one of the best coaches in college basketball 507 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,200 and I really like him. He's somebody that I've always 508 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,800 gotten along great with. But he was not the right person 509 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,000 to hire at that time. His program at OU Oklahoma was 510 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,080 under, well, it wasn't under investigation. 511 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:17,120 It was in the system and about to have a a finding when they 512 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,200 hired. You couldn't do that because of 513 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,480 what happened in 2000 if you couldn't do it and they did it 514 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,720 anyway and they paid the price for that when he got a couple of 515 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,880 parking tickets, so to speak. And so that's why it is been 516 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,880 beneficial. I'm not saying it was essential, 517 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,840 but it was beneficial to bring it back around and and hire 518 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,560 Mike, who was eminently qualified, 30 years in the NBA 519 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,920 as a coach, a decade plus as a player, extraordinarily 520 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,040 qualified to do this. And the concern about 521 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,960 recruiting, I'll be honest with you, I thought at the time it 522 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,720 was overblown. Because in today's day and age, 523 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,480 you just have to be willing to do the work and, and and that 524 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,120 doesn't necessarily mean you got to be on the road 24 hours a day 525 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,720 or whatever. You got to be willing to do what 526 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,720 a head coach is required to do, which is when it when your 527 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,720 assistant says you need to see this kid, he's playing in the 528 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,520 back aux gym at 4:00, You need to be there wearing your IU 529 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:28,720 shirt. That's. 530 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,960 And then OK, we need to go on an unofficial. 531 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,720 You know, we need to go on a home visit to see these players. 532 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,320 You got to be willing to do that. 533 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,160 It's and it helps if you're willing to do the old Roy 534 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,720 Williams thing, which was like I remember there in the middle to 535 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,000 early 2000s, I wanted to do a project where I went with Roy on 536 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,200 one of those kinds of I go, I do practice, I get on a private 537 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,400 plane, I go watch Marvin Williams play in Seattle and I 538 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,000 go home. He did that. 539 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,720 Now you don't have to do that. It helps, but you don't have to. 540 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,880 But that's why he was Roy. But you have to be willing to do 541 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,280 her and you have to hire the assistants who can put you into 542 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,480 those positions. Clearly they've they've gotten 543 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:19,680 guys on their staff who can, who can line up the five stars for 544 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,120 you to knock them down so to speak for you to close and he's 545 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,600 done the job in closing. So I I I thought that that that 546 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,120 was probably a bit overblown but that he should be able to coach 547 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,160 in the Big 10 since he coached in the NBA for 30 years. 548 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,520 So it's worked out really well and there's, as we all know, 549 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,680 there's still some, there's still some success out there 550 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,560 that they've not yet gotten to, but they are in position over 551 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,240 these next two seasons to get there. 552 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,040 I I agree and I I agree with you on the recruiting piece. 553 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,440 You know he's he's starting you know it, it takes time. 554 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,320 Some of these recruitments, you know, guys are starting you know 555 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,840 7th, 8th, 9th grade there's going, you know, so it's tough 556 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,600 to get those longer battles. But you know, the thing that's 557 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,680 been impressive to me in a good way is, you know, with the 558 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,800 portal and just how fluid that situation is. 559 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,520 I look at, you know, what IU has done and what Woodson has done. 560 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,480 They've been one of the more successful teams in the portal 561 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,000 based on, you know, what they have to offer and what they're 562 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,680 getting. You get where you get Imbaco in 563 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,560 the portal and it's like you you realize like, Oh yeah, like 564 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,480 that's way more like free agency, which Woodson dealt with 565 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,720 for 30 years in the NBA. Whereas, you know, I, I think 566 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,680 it's not catching a lot of other coaches off guard, but you 567 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,360 definitely feel the bristling from a lot of their coaches. 568 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,480 Like, man, I hate this Portal thing and it's like, it feels 569 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,520 like. Woodson's embracing it and now 570 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,000 you have to you have to do it with other you also, you know 571 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,800 getting the the, the, the recruits as freshmen also helps 572 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,600 me starting to show that too. So I I agree with you. 573 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,840 I thought it was always kind of a little bit unfair to like oh 574 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,400 man, can this guy even recruit and do it. 575 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,000 It's like, no, he can I think. I think the way the game is 576 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,960 changing is actually moving more towards some of his skill set, a 577 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,360 Fairpoint. You know I I think that they 578 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,360 have done a very good job as well of keeping players and 579 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,440 they've lost some transfers over the years over his time. 580 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,000 But it's not been it's never been a mass exodus. 581 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,440 They've kept Anthony Leal for instance they you know I 582 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,640 mentioned before about Trey, look if Trey weren't an IU guy 583 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,920 and I think there's a there's two elements Trey understands 584 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,120 the value of of what being an IU guy can can do for him. 585 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,280 That's first. Second of all, the program has 586 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200 to understand that. And they have reflected that 587 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,760 even though they didn't recruit him, they've understood one, 588 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,320 what he means on the floor, but also what he can mean by 589 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,160 remaining at IU and committing to this staff as well as to the 590 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,280 IU. You know, the broader IU 591 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,120 experience, whether it's within Assembly Hall or all throughout 592 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,600 Bloomington, he's committed to all of that. 593 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,760 And so you have to value that and so both sides have. 594 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,040 And that's, you know, that's an element again of of being a 595 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,040 successful college coach in 2023 is knowing who fits that 596 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,520 profile, knowing why it matters, knowing why you're not the 597 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,520 program you want to be. If you can't keep Trey Galloway 598 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:31,280 as a as a happy, committed, lifetime Hoosier, if you can't 599 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,960 get him to do that, then you're you're then there's then there 600 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,200 is an element of your resume that's missing. 601 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,440 Yeah. In the time we have left, you 602 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,080 don't mind. I want to scale back and unless 603 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,720 you have any other IU basketball thoughts for this season, I want 604 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,320 to scale back and just ask you some larger Big 10 questions 605 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,160 because you part of the Big 10 network, one of the studio 606 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,520 analysts. The first question is just when 607 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,840 you're on the air talking throughout the season, which fan 608 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,120 base gives you the most pushback? 609 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,360 When whenever you say things like you know, you know, you 610 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,640 mentioned things like is it Illinois? 611 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,600 I'm just it could be Indiana take us. 612 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,719 We're we're a neutral party. I'm just, I'm curious, when you 613 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,159 get on social media after a broadcast, is there a fan base 614 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,520 that's like always, always picking at you? 615 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,719 I will say, Scott, and this is, you know, I don't know, I'm not 616 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,960 bragging or whatever, but I don't get a lot of pushback. 617 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,639 I don't. I there might be if I if I slip 618 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:35,120 and make a factual error or if I slip and say something that 619 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:42,080 maybe is like a little bit off, you know, in terms of an opinion 620 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,120 that's presented and maybe I haven't factored in everything 621 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,679 that I should have. If I miss, like if I say so and 622 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:52,320 so is the best point guard in the league and for a second the 623 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,920 actual best point guard in the league slipped my mind. 624 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,680 You know I might get some pushback on something like that. 625 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,160 But I think the fan base has been the Big 10 at large has 626 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,360 been really accepting of what I present and you know this is my 627 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,800 15th season and the the amount of times that I've gotten reamed 628 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,040 is very small. I get I get raved a lot more for 629 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:24,760 my bracket picks that I get a lot more of that then but the 630 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,920 the Big 10 Network audience has been phenomenal to me. 631 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:28,480 I. Mean. 632 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,240 That would have been a perfect spot to say Purdue. 633 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,240 Purdue fans are horrible. But I mean, yeah, I get you. 634 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,520 You could have said that. No, it's it's funny. 635 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,800 I heard this on another podcast. I think it was like Ryan 636 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,920 Rasilla, but he was talking about, you know, just as you 637 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,640 talk about the bracket and like they're doing the bracket show 638 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,080 with Dick Vitale. Is on ESPN doing with Dick 639 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,440 Vitale. And you know Vitale who I love, 640 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,960 was always just like, you know, oh man, you got to put, you know 641 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,760 North Carolina State they got to make it. 642 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,680 Oh, Villanova, how can you leave him out? 643 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,640 And like they they cut to break and I think it was like Bob Lee 644 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,680 or someone was like Dick someone's got to be cut. 645 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,680 Like they can't all make it like there's only 64 teams. 646 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,960 Anyway, just as you say that it reminds me of that when you have 647 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,840 these shows and it's like, oh man, you got to put that, you 648 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,720 got to be in there. It's like there is there is a 649 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,200 cut line at some point. My favorite example of pushback, 650 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,960 the my favorite ever, was the literal I I started doing this 651 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,840 in the 20/19/20 season. That's when Fox hired me to do 652 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,760 the brackets. So my very first bracket I had 653 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:30,000 Butler as a three seed I think instead of like A1 or A2. 654 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,040 And that and Butler fans just crushed me. 655 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,720 It was amazing and I'm like my goodness like because remember 656 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,280 like we don't. I don't do. 657 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,520 I do. I'm doing 1 preseason bracket 658 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,600 this year for Fox. They asked if I would and so I'm 659 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,320 doing it. But we generally don't start 660 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,600 until we have a body of work. So that year we waited until the 661 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,440 until January. This year I'll start the last 662 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,520 week of December with the regular brackets. 663 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:01,680 And so we're talking about like they had like six weeks of of of 664 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,600 data and they just crushed me and I'm like that. 665 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,600 And it was amazing to me because it was like the first time I 666 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,760 ever put my toe in the water and the shark came and ripped my 667 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,720 foot right off. Of all fan base to Butler they 668 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:18,600 had a good run. Here's I'll I'll ask and you can 669 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,880 be be careful with your answer. I'm not trying to get you in hot 670 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,760 water or anything but with Big 10 expansion because you're a 671 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,200 member of the the Big 10 network. 672 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,480 But I'm just, I'm curious, you know everything's been focused 673 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,040 on football. We know there's four teams 674 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,520 coming next year. I'm curious, as a basketball 675 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,920 guy, myself included, how do you think this is going to affect 676 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,200 basketball in the sense that, like, I've been talking to some 677 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,880 friends and it's like, you realize, like there's going to 678 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,680 be 18 teams next year. We only play 20 Big 10 games 679 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,040 right now. Like, that's if you're going to 680 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,000 play everybody, you're going to play, you know, two games. 681 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,080 Like if, if you're IU, like, you play Purdue twice, you play 682 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,440 Michigan twice, you play everybody else once. 683 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,160 Like that kind of sucks like. I'm just, and again, I'm not 684 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,240 asking you to tell me like what you know, Like no one said, I'm 685 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,680 just, I'm curious as a fan of Big 10, like how how do you see 686 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,720 them reconciling this for basketball? 687 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,160 Because as I look at it, it's like something's got to give. 688 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,480 Because 20 games for 18 teams, it doesn't make a ton of sense. 689 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,040 Well there is discussion buzz I guess because I haven't asked 690 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:23,160 anybody about this because I I, I I'm I'm not sure whether this 691 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,480 is the approach to take but there is a discussion about 692 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,360 upping the number of league games I if you do that see to 693 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,000 me. To me I'm not sure whether 694 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,160 that's the right approach for a couple of reasons. 695 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,160 One you still have 8. Like if you go to 22 games, how 696 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,600 much? You're still not seeing that 697 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:47,520 much cross action between your your. 14 teams once, Yeah, Yeah. 698 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,800 So it doesn't change it that much, but it does change the 699 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,680 opportunity for you to say hey everybody, we're better than 700 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,400 everybody which they've done over the last three years and 701 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,320 how do you do that? You do that in non conference 702 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,280 play. It's the only way to do that. 703 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,520 And so if you if you have to accomplish both of those, up the 704 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,240 number of games and still establish we're better than you 705 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,280 and that's why we should get X number of tournament bids. 706 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,800 If you have to do both of those do you sacrifice by games. 707 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,000 So that makes it that puts a load on your players and makes 708 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,720 it pretty heavy because they lose. 709 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:34,200 Though believe me, I still I I I believe in this theory very 710 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,480 strongly. And it's still just a theory 711 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,000 because we don't have enough data, but we have enough data to 712 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,920 support the theory not being nonsense. 713 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,400 And that is the deepest conferences don't do well in the 714 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,240 NCAA's. They just don't do as well. 715 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,960 If you look back over time, the leagues that have gotten 9 716 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,920 members or eight members into the tournament don't perform as 717 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,080 well as those that get five or six. 718 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:09,960 Because at the end of the day, what helps those teams succeed 719 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,760 is they haven't had to sweat every conference game. 720 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:14,640 They got, they know. They knew. 721 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,040 Like if you were in the ACC last year, my goodness, you knew. 722 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:23,040 If you were playing at home and you were playing the bottom 723 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,480 teams in your league, all you had to do was go out there and 724 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,360 throw AC plus effort out there and you were going to win. 725 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,560 If you were Duke, say mean, that's all you had to do. 726 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,120 Or if you were Virginia, if you threw out AC plus effort, we're 727 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,600 good. But you throw out AC plus effort 728 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,640 in any Big 10 game except maybe Minnesota at home last year 729 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:48,840 you're loose simple you lose and that's there's there's nobody in 730 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,160 the league that's not beating AC plus effort and so that's the 731 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,120 problem and and so I I I really do wonder about whether or not 732 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,520 adding more to the to that burden is is going to be helpful 733 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:08,200 to the league in the long run. They they are the according to 734 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,160 Adam Sigouria, my friend who's a freelance writer in New York, 735 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,440 works for thenewjersey.com papers as well as does his own 736 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,840 blog and work writes for Forbes as well. 737 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:27,320 He tweeted out today that that the Gavin games are dead and 738 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:33,200 that's between 2 leagues that are both Fox Sports First 739 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,120 contractees. So if that series can't survive 740 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,920 the expansion then you know what other, you know how many non 741 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,440 conference games are you going to be able to play. 742 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,800 So I, I, I'm, I'm very curious about where that leads us, where 743 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,320 you know where we go with that. And then of course there's the 744 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,280 conference tournament. Do you take all 18? 745 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,880 Do you take 16 do? You you know that it's a it's a 746 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,120 big question for them to answer because nobody's ever had to do 747 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,520 18 before. We've had 16 in a couple of 748 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,200 different leagues and obviously the Big 10's been navigating 14 749 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:20,000 for a while now, but nobody's ever done 18 and I'll be very 750 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,520 curious to see where they take that. 751 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,360 That's a great. I didn't even thought about 752 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,680 that. No, it's it's a really, it's an 753 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,480 interesting point about you know the the deeper the league which 754 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,360 the Big 10's going to be even more deep next year you know not 755 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,800 doing well in the tournament that's. 756 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,040 That's a trope. I didn't want to bring it up. 757 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,480 It's like it every year we kind of get into this like why can't 758 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,760 the Big 10 do better in the NCAA tournament? 759 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,840 And I I always waffle back and forth on that because on one 760 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,560 hand it's like it's a problem because it we haven't won since 761 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,400 Michigan State. Maryland doesn't count. 762 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,960 They were not part of the Big 10 at that time. 763 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:53,960 It's it's going to be really funny though. 764 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,360 I've I've joked like if USC or UCLA wins the NCAA tournament 765 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,600 this year and then it's like, oh the Big 10 broke their streak. 766 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,400 Like we'll get them before that happens. 767 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,720 It's like it hasn't happened but on the flip side it's like I I 768 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:07,640 it's been a while so I put all the numbers together like the 769 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,160 Big 10 has put a good number of teams in the final four. 770 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,800 It's not like we're we're not you know there's a couple years 771 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,080 where it doesn't happen but like Michigan State has been to the 772 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,560 Final four. Ohio State like you you've 773 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,840 you've had a lot of shots and not that it's like a crapshoot, 774 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,560 but kind of like you get to the final four and then it's a 775 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:22,960 little bit kind of all bets are off. 776 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,080 It's like match up dependent on how things go. 777 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:28,440 And so it's not like we haven't had any teams in the final four 778 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,600 over the last couple years. I I think we've had more than 779 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,800 like the PAC 12. And so it it is but it's going 780 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,840 to be really interesting to see and as I look at like I don't 781 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,600 it's a tough solution because you're right, you have the 782 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,000 tournament, the the Big 10 tournament to worry about. 783 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,720 If you expand the Big 10 to like 20/24/26 games, you're now 784 00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:48,560 bumping into like our all of those pre season tournaments 785 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,360 like the NIT or the Atlantis or the you know you mentioned the 786 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,520 gavity, like the Empire games, like all those November 787 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,920 tournaments. Are they going to get compressed 788 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,120 then if you get rid of those, like, then if you're a coach 789 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,320 like at some point you do want to play some cupcake games, 790 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,720 like, how does that affect some of those early? 791 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,560 I don't know how it all fits in. You know, I I want to say there 792 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,920 are. Those are two different problems 793 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,840 about tournament performance. The the the non champion thing 794 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,160 has been in existence since 2000, 2002 if you want to 795 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,880 stretch it. But like it's not like Maryland 796 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,320 won in 2010. Even if you take it, it doesn't 797 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,280 change the math. That two years? 798 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,160 Yeah, Yeah. So that's been in existence. 799 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:33,200 But during that time, from 2001 to 2019, the Big 10 got more 800 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,320 Final Four teams than just about anybody. 801 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,280 I think maybe the ACC did or they had the most it's it's 802 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:47,000 right there but no champion. But then 21/22/23 they haven't 803 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,880 done well in the tournament you've you've lost your number 804 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:55,200 one seed on the first day your your your your your conference 805 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,240 conference tournament champion on the on the 1st round each of 806 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,360 the last two years you haven't had a final four team in any of 807 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,160 those three years. You've I don't know that there 808 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,200 been an elite eight team in that three years there might have 809 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,200 been one but there were no final fours. 810 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:15,640 So that performance I think is I put that down to that grind that 811 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,200 that at least some element of it to that grind. 812 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,600 The absence of a champion, some of it's just been bad luck. 813 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,040 I mean, Michigan should have won in 2013. 814 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:31,560 One bad call changes the game. They did fail to block out some 815 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,920 offensive rebounding that Louisville was able to do, but 816 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,160 they played well enough to win it. 817 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,680 They just, you know, one bad call and maybe missing a couple 818 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,920 of shots and there and and they did. 819 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,360 They don't get it, you know, but they've been in position a few 820 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,560 times to be right there. Other years, like 2009, Michigan 821 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,560 State's in the title game, but they are not on the same floor 822 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,640 basically as that Carolina team. Same thing in 18 with Michigan 823 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,280 Having the great year they had gets to the final game, but 824 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,520 they're not in that Villanova team's class and you can see why 825 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,800 now. They weren't in that Villanova 826 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,280 team's class and that again goes to what really wins 827 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,160 championships in the NCAA Tournament. 828 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:24,040 The exception that we have to that rule is IU 1987. 829 00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:29,240 That's the last time that you had a champion that didn't, that 830 00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,320 didn't have a first round pick on its roster in its rotation 831 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,640 last time. We're now well past 30 years on 832 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,080 that. There have been Big 10 teams 833 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,040 that didn't have that guy, and I believe that that Michigan team 834 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,760 might have been one of them. They might have had one, but 835 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,840 they didn't have the level of talent that that Villanova had 836 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,080 with Jalen Brunson, Mikhail Bridges, Dante Devincenzo. 837 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,320 They didn't have the level. So that's really been the 838 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,320 dividing line between being really a tremendous college 839 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,560 basketball conference, which the Big 10 has been for the last 22 840 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:14,040 years, and having either a champion or, in the last three 841 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:19,080 years, some level of deep runs. Yeah, I'll get you out of here 842 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,680 on this. You you've been covering 843 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,720 basketball for a while and a good very positive, and you're 844 00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:27,920 part of the Basketball Writers Hall of Fame over that time. 845 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,840 You mentioned a good Roy Williams story. 846 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,720 Who, who's one of your favorite coaches to cover and maybe a 847 00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,000 story to go along with it. Just having been around all 848 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,080 those years, like just who who do you like? 849 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:39,880 Who do you like seeing in the locker room and maybe a story to 850 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,960 go with it? Well, there there's so many that 851 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,520 I could say. And that's one of the reasons, 852 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,440 Scott, why I like covering college basketball. 853 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,040 I covered college football at the start of my career. 854 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,480 I did nine seasons covering Penn State football, another 5 855 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,720 covering the SEC or 4 covering the SEC when I was in Memphis. 856 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,000 I don't miss it. I like college football. 857 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,360 I like watching it, but I don't like dealing with football 858 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,400 coaches like I like dealing with basketball coach. 859 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,680 Is it? Is it because football coaches 860 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,160 are a little too, like mercurial or king like or they're very 861 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,360 king, like very military like basketball coaches are just 862 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:18,880 guys? Yes. 863 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:24,320 You know I mean whether it's Bill Self or or Mike Bray or Tom 864 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:29,440 Izzo they're guys that you could see yourself having lunch with 865 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,640 having a a beverage with it. It's just not the same and and 866 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,440 and and that's why I like it so much but I'd probably single out 867 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,520 Schefsky. I was able to build a really 868 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,840 good relationship with Mike Schefsky. 869 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:49,520 The very few writers were able to have and you know he was 870 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:56,440 always really kind to me and and he you know opened his his 871 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,560 office to me. I was I I I got a one-on-one 872 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,520 with him at the start of his last year in the business and I 873 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,520 wrote a big long series of articles and I'll tell I've got 874 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,560 I've got a few scores but I'll tell a funny one about him. 875 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,560 Don't remember what year was. It was sometime in the early 876 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,880 through 2000s. He He wrote a book. 877 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,840 He's written several but one of the books he wrote I can't even 878 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,320 remember which one it was. They had a launch party so to 879 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,880 speak during one of the events that took place in New York. 880 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:34,080 Whether it was like preseason NIT or the champion that was pre 881 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,760 Champions Classic. It was some some double header 882 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,920 or whatever that I went to in New York and they had this 883 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,080 launch party at the 21 club which I'd never been to, been to 884 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,680 New York a ton, I'd never been there. 885 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,240 So that was pretty cool to be able to go. 886 00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:50,600 There was a very famous place when I was growing up and they 887 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,880 had, I don't know, 6 to 8 round tables and that were there. 888 00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:01,640 And he gave a speech, talk or whatever. 889 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,040 And then after that he went around to each table and 890 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,920 interacted with everybody there. And I took my wife to this event 891 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,480 because she came. We like to go to New York, we 892 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,480 like Broadway, we like to shop up there. 893 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,320 So we probably go there almost once a year. 894 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,560 And so we used that as a chance to make our trip to New York at 895 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,000 the same time as I cover a game. So she came with me to the 896 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,560 luncheon and she was sitting next to me and. 897 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,400 Oh, no, Mike, I lost you. OK, so where do you want me to? 898 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,680 Do you want me? To start, no, I was like, that 899 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,760 was gross, wildest cut. I'll, I'll edit it back if I 900 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,160 know you were talking about how, like you're there with your wife 901 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,560 and then you know she's, she's with you and he's walking around 902 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,320 to the table. And then yeah, you're just like 903 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,560 you're froze like, oh, what happened? 904 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,680 Like what happened with Chesky and your wife. 905 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,440 So go ahead. So he's so he walks around. 906 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,680 He talks to each table, he comes to our table. 907 00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,160 We're in the back. And I I shook his hand. 908 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,000 I said hi and I didn't know him as well at this point. 909 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,960 I mean this is this is early 2000s. 910 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:11,000 I had only met him for the first time at the Final Four in 2001. 911 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,600 When they want it with Battier and J Will and. 912 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,480 And that's a UConn team, Yeah. So I didn't know him as well 913 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,360 then. And he comes up and he shakes my 914 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,840 hand and he knows who I am, but I don't, I don't know him great. 915 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,080 And he shakes my hand and I say hi. 916 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,560 And I introduced my wife and I said this is my wife Deb. 917 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,120 And he said he shakes her hand and he looks at her right in the 918 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,800 eye and he says, what'd you do, lose a bet that was his. 919 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,280 That was his reasoning for why she would possibly marry me. 920 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,360 So that is so I I always get a big kick out of that that he, 921 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,480 you know that he was so quick putting that one together. 922 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,280 That's great. No Coach K that's I think that's 923 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,560 that's a good one he's he he was around a while and was was 924 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,680 obviously a fantastic college coach. 925 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,200 So well, hey Mike, I I sincerely appreciate you hopping on. 926 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:09,480 Definitely catch Mike on Big 10 Network Fox Sports and you know 927 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,480 no fan base has been bad to him yet. 928 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,120 So IU fans be good to him this year and let's let's let Purdue 929 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,840 be the be the pain in his rear this season. 930 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,000 My thanks again to Mike Decorcy for joining us. 931 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,800 Great conversation and for all of you out there, thank you. 932 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,520 We will have continue to have more preview podcast, a little 933 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,000 bit of football this weekend, but we'll continue with our 934 00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,520 basketball preview next week. Got a couple more fun guests 935 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,080 lined up. So appreciate you guys tuning 936 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,120 with us and it's right around the corner. 937 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,200 It's almost basketball time. So this is Scott for Crimson 938 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,400 cast signing off.