You're listening to the back home network presented by home
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Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale clavius got Caulfield joining.
You once again, it is the 28th of November and football
season's over Scott. Thank God.
We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about the
aftermath of Indiana's thrashing at the hands, of the Purdue
Boilermakers. Yesterday by the count of 44, 27
at Ross Aid, Stadium a bit of a historic game on a couple of
levels. But first, how are you doing?
I'm all right, it's over. We can talk basketball, it's
over. We made it through.
I have thoughts. Yeah, I may not be able to keep
the the no cursing Scott around, but no, it's a I'm good, man.
It's, it's a, it's a Sunday. It's nice outside.
I have, I'll search share a picture on our Instagram feed,
but one of my next door neighbor's is a Purdue grad.
And so, we have like a bet just whatever IU and Purdue play in
football and basketball. The other person has to fly the
other person's flag if that team loses.
So I have to fly a Purdue flag above my house, but I went on to
Etsy. Thank God for Etsy and bought a
three by five Flags. Lag.
Customize it as an arrow. Pointing up that says I lost a
bet. So I'm Gonna Fly that underneath
the Purdue flag to at least take away some of the sting.
But man, I'm gonna be flying this flag a lot after
Thanksgiving. It seems see if this is a Bad
Bet. Yeah.
All right. I'm glad I'm glad we're it.
How you doing? I'm bummed because I still have
the tickets right here. I will also, I think I'm gonna
burn the on Instagram. Gonna put this on our, put these
in my fire pit and burn them. This was like my big thing for
you and me as I bought tickets to the IU /, do Game.
I try to give his way out our last podcast, with one person,
kind of interested. And then he backed out because
he was a smarter man than most, but it's like II bought.
I was like, you know, this is just this reminds me of that
feeling I had in August, where it's like, oh yeah, like bucket
tickets. Like I'll get him a gale about
go. Like, yeah, well, you know,
worst case where, at least go to the Music City Bowl like, you
know, that's not gonna happen. It's amazing how it went off the
rails. I'm with you, 100% on that.
So, we'll talk about all that here in a second, a bunch of
questions in A bunch of comments from you folks.
So many that I don't think we're gonna be able to get through all
of them today. But, you know, we might have a
second, follow-up podcast depending on what happens here.
Over the course of the next week because it could be an
interesting week for the program will have to wait and see.
Anyway before we get to that, just wanted to remind you that
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Hope you'll apparel 20% off through Cyber Monday and we hope
that you, you do that. So, let's talk about.
First, the game. It was an Abomination, not a
surprise, but an Abomination. This was the first time since
1998. That Indiana did not break
double figures in a bucket game in terms of scoring.
They lost that game in 1998, 52, 27, I think it was.
And this game, of course, they lose 44 27.
And, you know, it's not like Indiana's.
Exactly lit. Things up in the Indiana Purdue
series between then, and now, but there's at least been some
successes here. And there this looked like among
the worst performances I've seen Indiana play in a bowl and
excuse me, in a bucket game over the course of the last 35 years.
It was a very predictable game. On a number of levels, there was
a scripted drive that Indiana put out early on in the game
that resulted in a touchdown. That looked pretty clever.
There were subsequent, I've got, I gotta jump in, like, this is
one thing, I thought like it begs.
The question of like, the old joke of why don't they build the
plane out of the black box? Like, why don't you just run
your first drive? Every got every time like the
exact same set of plays like it might work better than what
you're doing. Yeah well I'm sure there's some
kind of reason for that part. Of the issue is just that most
of the time, the scripted plays follow a very specific pattern
and once the opposition sees it, the first time they've scouted
it and it's like, well, we have no second idea here and that's
exactly what happened. This time around again, the
Hoosiers, decided in this game to put grant kreml in at
quarterback. And look, I don't think great.
Grandma was the reason Indiana lost and we talked about it a
little bit. There were certainly reasons why
you wanted him in there instead of Macaulay largely because
Grandma's seem to be able to, at least throw the ball down the
field. But the downside of it was he
still a walk-on quarterback and you still have an offense.
That is basically crippled by a lack of being in touch with
reality. It's sometimes it's like, well,
this is not a creative offense, but sometimes it's like, well,
we don't know if that was a creative offense because while
there was a five or six seconds, Long developing pass play that
was called, but the offensive line can only block for
two-and-a-half or three of those seconds.
So who knows might have been the greatest player in the history
of mankind, but couldn't be executed by the players that
were out there. And so, you know, after a pretty
impressive 11-play 75-yard drive to start things off.
Indiana goes 3 and out three and out for an out.
And then the last Drive, I don't even know how would you describe
that last drive that Indiana had?
I mean, it was just Was one of those Comedy of Errors, drives
where you get, you know, you get a sack, you get a nice
completion to Peyton, Hendershot you get a, you know, a couple of
weird plays where liked, I fry Fogle gets inner feared with but
then there's another play where he doesn't really fight to get,
you know, first down yardage and then, of course, Indiana tops,
it all off by missing a field goal at the end of the of the
half. And, you know, not that the
field goal would have made a whole lot of difference.
But at that point in the game, It would have made it a one
score game again. It would have been 17 to 10 and
once the field goal was was wide left.
You just kind of looked at that and said, nothing, that's
happened this season, would let you think that Indiana's got any
chance of coming back and doing anything in the second half and
well, that was accurate because they managed to make the most
plays they had in the second half.
Were, there was that second to last Drive of the game, 10
plays, 51 yards and of course ended in an interception.
Purdue just dominated the second half.
It almost wasn't worth talking about.
There were very little, very few statistical performances or
individual play performances. Indiana.
Look like, they basically just wave the white flag at that
point and Purdue actually didn't pile it on.
As much as I feared that they would, you know, they stopped at
44 and I mean you know I think Indiana's defense had a couple
of good individual moments but really didn't look up to the
task at also Hoosiers lose this one and Purdue was clearly the
stronger team out there. Tom Allen's record against
Purdue drops to 1 and 3 now in bucket games.
Scott, what are your overall Impressions coming out of this
contest? I mean, I'm going to miss this
team and I hate that I got here. But I'm Gonna Miss This team
because they've been great to bet against, you know, that the
having for the last four weeks betting their opponent to cover.
The spread has been great at the beginning of the game has been
great at halftime. It was really only about this
game. I think perhaps I'm pretty.
As I got 28 point, like had a 28 point spread they had a cover at
that point. I'm like I I still put some
money on it but I wasn't as comfortable.
But like I increasingly little like going this game.
Pretty was a 15 and a half Point favorite.
I'm like they're gonna cover. Like there's just no Universe
where they don't. We got three weeks ago.
We were a 7-point favorite at home, like that's how it's it's
been fun to bet against. There's my dog wouldn't be
Crimson cast that a dog in the background but I mean, gosh, I'm
ready to talk, but yeah, I could talk big picture but this game
went through the normal scripting, this game, you talk
about Grandma. The thing that was wild is I
again Wonder kind of, you know, what Alan is thinking at times
when he's in the maybe it's just coach peek but it's like why
even in the press conference leading up to the game talk
about. Hey panics is going to be
available. Total is going to be available.
It's like that you play a walk-on for the like they're not
available like even if they were why would you like Lennox this
game, there's no point. Why like is John Elway available
like is Peyton Manning available?
Like could we talk about all those who aren't available who
are going to play and and yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I
think they threw it more. At least he said he want to
throw more and they did and they did know they did throw the ball
more. Oh, I do think we give them some
credit for at least trying to get the ball in the air.
And I think I would be more impressed by that if produce
defense wasn't so bad. I mean, you look at their
numbers. I think right now Indiana's
defense is worse than Purdue's, but on the bulk of the Season,
like produce given up a lot of big plays.
They've given up a lot of opportunities and Indiana.
Just didn't look capable of capitalizing on any of those
opportunities for most of this game.
And, you know, dancer your question about the penix thing
or the Tuttle thing or anything, you know, there's this thing in
football, where theoretically, if you say, well, this guy may
be available and maybe back then, theoretically, somebody's
having to stay up and watch film and prep for the chance that
that guy. I might be in there, I'm with
you. I think those kind of Mind Games
matter when you're like 7 and for something.
Yeah, playing for something where your opponent isn't
overwhelmingly better than you are in these sorts of
situations. Not so much.
But yeah, it was a really. I mean, I've watched a lot of
bucket games. This was the growing up
unfortunately, in West Lafayette, this was a game.
I went to a lot because it was the one game that was always
easy for me to get to. So I've seen Indiana win in Ross
Aid. I've seen them Get pulverized in
Ross, Aid. I've seen the same thing happen
to Memorial Stadium. This was among the worst efforts
that I've seen out of an IU team and it really fit the pattern of
the last six weeks of the Season.
Where, yes, I know individual players have, you know, tried
they've, they've put themselves in positions where they've, you
know, they've, they tried to make plays and they've tried to
keep Indiana and games, the reality is most of this team
looked like, it wasn't giving the heh, Effort required to be
competitive in games, like this, and the coaching staff looked
like they didn't have any answers at all.
For what was needed to keep Indiana competitive or have a
game plan that could last beyond the first quarter.
So yeah, I mean, you know statistically just real quick
talking about this game. I mean granny Granville 18 of 30
147 yards, Davion Irvin Poindexter.
On the one hand, had some nice runs.
He averaged six yards, a carry on the other hand, he got a nun.
It's been like conduct penalty for kicking a guy in the nuts
and on a key drive that Indiana ended up missing a field goal on
that could have brought them back within a score.
So I have a hard time saying. Hey, great job on the eight
carries for 48 yards, Charlie Spiegel had a couple of nice
moments in there. David Holloman at a couple of
nice moments and you know you got a good game out of Peyton
Hendershot in his likely last game.
You know know that's it's a shame that hendershot's career
You know, potentially is, is over like that.
I guess it is technically over because he was a redshirt
senior. I've lost track of the covid
years and who could potentially come back.
I'm going to assume that people who are, you know, seniors
either red shirt or otherwise aren't coming back until told
otherwise. So wife Marcia had that at
halftime, she saw that like produce giving out, you know,
celebrating Juniors for senior day and like well actually they
are like she forgot they didn't have eligibility last year
Michael. We at their junior, like, I'm
assuming they're doing off of Eligibility.
Like, if they're a junior there really a senior because they
played at this point, four years of college.
Football's they should get a senior day with the really a
junior. And it was, yeah, it's like I've
lost complete. I've lost ideas of where people
are in their. I just assumed if they tell us
they're gone, they're gone, they have eligibility or not.
So, you know, but outside of that I mean offensively just
very little stood out for this team and defensively.
Look, I think Marcelino Mercury bulb deserves some credit.
I had a nice sack in the game. And was kind of returning funds
like, yeah, I know he's all over the place.
I mean, it was, it was, it was like old times and Mike McFadden
and cam Jones both had good games, and outside of that,
there just wasn't a whole lot else to talk about with this
team. Except, you know, I do have to
say, the wow, the punting was terrible.
I mean, James Evans, six pumps for an average of thirty four
point, seven yards, and that was with a 49 yarder.
That was pretty. All role in the mix.
I mean, at one point, he had a 25 yard punt followed by a 29
yard punt. I mean, really not good from
from the punting position and it's this match has a theme with
frankly, a lot of problems on special teams throughout the
course of the year whether it's bad.
Punting missed field goals touchdowns given up on returns
just a real systems failure for the special team so far this
season. Anyway, we had a lot of
questions that people sent in and I wanted to try to get To,
as many of those as we could while.
Also, I think a lot of these match our own thoughts and
things that we've discussed and you know, I guess maybe let's
let's start here. And this is from Tamar Bates
Stan account because I think this is kind of the overarching
question that a lot of people have settled on coming into the
end of this season. And the question is this can Tom
Allen actually Salvage? This can he retain the fanbase
following up 14 and 7 over 2 years with to bowl berths with a
season? This bad, I have my concerns
besides firing everyone. What else does he need to do?
So let's let's start with the big Picture because we're going
to get into the firing thing. I guess a little bit later on,
but let's kind of set the scene for everybody.
You know, Indiana, obviously went eight and five and twenty
nineteen. That was a surprisingly
successful season. Last year, people were intrigued
and then Indiana is basically exceeded expectations.
They finish with, you know, the in the top, 10 in the polls, a
lot of options, you know, like optimism coming into this year,
you've got relatively High rankings, For Indiana, at least
in the AP poll, coming into the season.
And you have not just a season that doesn't match those
expectations. But really one of the worst
seasons we've had in program history, after one of the best.
So, can I highlight something on there?
I'll squeeze some numbers. Go ahead because everyone's been
kind of pointing to 2011 as a as a Bad season, and rightfully.
So they also went over in the Big Ten that year, the other
really the only other oh I think was 95 like, so we're talking a
30-year stretch but I was playing around with some of the
numbers in 2011. So I was looking at, like, how
many games are weak competitive in in the Big Ten this year
versus that year. And the answer is two.
If you count a seven-point spread a competitive game, we
are competitive and two big ten games this year to Big 10 games.
In 2011, I played around with Excel and there's one a little
deeper in 2011, the point differential for Why you in the
Big Ten? Losses was 195 points in 2011?
You would, it was in 2021 Galen. It was more 222.
So there's a higher Point, differential I've not done 95
yet. But I mean, this puts us in, you
know, one of the worst, one of the worst seasons in 20 to 30
years. And I just sorry, I don't mean
to cut it on that, but it's like about it is it's, you know, look
based on no big 10 wins. You got to mark it up with the
seasons where you go over in the Big Ten but it's like to me, you
know, I look at 2011 kind of answering the question here at
least in 2011 like when I look at some of the Players on that
team. It's like you had a family.
Pull it up. Sorry I was it was a bad team.
Well but you at least had a young tree Roberson's.
You had a young shade win and Kofi Hughes you had some guys
who were going to become better players later to me.
That's the scary thing about this season.
Is everything you're saying is right.
Sorry, I'm hijacking your point here, but it's fun.
It, you know, the scary thing here is that there aren't a lot
of those young players that you can at least say, well, you
know, we have a Opie Hughes who might get better or a shade win.
It's like we had them a collie who now is back behind us a
walk-on. We have a lot of guys like
McCarey ball, Peyton Hendershot like a lot of the guys here who
are doing well, our seniors and the other ones like are doing
nothing and like we still have half our leaderboard of offense
or guys who haven't played since October.
Yeah and so that's the really scary thing is he can't even
look at and then she's a couple pods, you know, you can't even
look like well, hey, we got a couple young receivers a couple
of young. Use your guys just here working
their way to the speed of the game.
It's like, no that we have no young freshmen who are at least
good enough to try and get in to a Purdue blowout.
And that's the part where I think no question this is this
is the worst place we've been in 25, 30 years which is remarkable
where we were as you were just alluding to well.
And this is where I think this gets to be a complicated
question to answer because this I think about halfway through
the season was a disappointing season at the end of the season,
it's a season that went completely off the rails in way
that few seasons have like normally for Indiana football,
things are just bad all the way through.
There's no expectations in the team is terrible or the team is
kind of like got mixed expectations and they tend to
finish like with four wins or five wins and occasionally,
they'll get that sixth win but this was a rare one where
everybody thought that the team was a lot further.
Along than they ended up being and they ended up basically
being the worst team in the Big Ten.
I understand. If you want to make an argument
for Northwestern being worse than Indiana in this season, but
at least Northwestern won a game in conference and Indiana
didn't. So, that's, that's the tough
question because it's not just a matter of can Indiana.
Can Tom Allen recover. This, it's like, what?
What's being recovered at this point.
I don't have Good handle on. I think it's obvious at this
point that Indiana was not as good as the rankings indicated
last year, but they also weren't bad either like, I mean, the
winds were not a mirage. And yes, they might have won
games largely against teams last year, that that didn't end up
with winning records, but they still won the games, where is
this year? They lost those games and badly
down the stretch. And so when you think of if you
go to 2019 I mean they were Eating, you know, they had a
four-game winning streak in the Big Ten, they beat Northwestern,
34 23, they but Rutgers 35 to nothing.
I mean, right? So, you know, it's like I would
be like I'm with you, it's not a mirage.
So like so a lot of the question ends up being.
How much weight do you put on what happened in?
2019 and 2020 versus how much weight you put on what's going
on right now? But it's also not a matter of.
Well there's this there's an obviously stable core of players
because as you noted like this was a veteran team, this is a
team that's got a lot of Players who are listed as seniors or
graduate students, who appear likely to leave.
I mean, you run down the list. You've got three, starting
offensive lineman, who fall into that category.
You've got a starting wide receiver.
You've got your starting running back at the start of the year.
You've got your starting tight end and I think your second
string tight end, I'm fairly certain that be Orson is a
senior who would be graduating and then on the defeat, the
defensive side you've got I believe five of your starting
defensive lineman, Rider Anderson, Demarcus Elliott
Western Kramer, Alfred Bryan and Michael ziemba.
You've got Mike and McFadden. You've got cam Jones, who are
your two starting line backers. You've got Brian Fitzgerald,
who's your starting Husky and the reserve Husky and Marcelino
McCrary ball. You've got Jaylyn Williams and
retailer. Who there may be some question
about them coming back. You've got Devon Matthews.
You've got Rahim Lane and Juwan Burgess.
Like that's most of your setup. Defensive player.
I one moment. No no no.
Moans only technically a junior. So well one could come back but
everybody else that I listed off there is listed as either a
senior senior Plus or graduate student.
It is certainly possible that a few of the players could come
back because of the extra covid year, but that's a lot that is
an awful lot that is just up in the air.
And I think the big concern I have right now is, you know, one
of the reasons why people were excited about this year was that
it A veteran team, yes, they suffered a lot of injuries but
still you had players that had played together in the system
for a while. That normally works its way out
somehow on the field where the team is able to overcome
obstacles and especially beat teams that aren't as veteran in
in in, you know, just being around for a long period of time
and it didn't work. And with all those injuries
you're thinking, well, if Indiana's got these younger
players who are You know, I've been coming through the
recruiting cycle or whatever you would think they'd be able to
step in and at least do something about what's going on
out there on the field and that really didn't happen at all and
as the injuries took over and more younger players came in the
team got actively worse. So that's what do you?
Yeah. Go ahead.
Forget to other quests. Have a question for you.
I mean, this is, you know, we're not, we're not Michigan, we're
not Michigan State. I think we don't have.
As deep of a kind of foundation, but in your history, you're a
little more. Your better answer is kind of
just historical questions off-the-cuff have, you would
have you seen when programs that kind of our level or that
Medium? Level go off a cliff like, are
they recoverable? Because you look at Michigan.
It's like the narrative is kind of like all like, you know, they
were there are starting to fall apart it's like but they you
know they want against Ohio State like he had a good year
this year. It's like dude, last year was a
mess for them. But they also do a bunch of
weird cancellation stuff like two years ago.
In 99, you know, 2019, they were still mine and 4 6 & 3 in the
Big Ten. Like it's it's very unusual to
just go over in your conference. That's really fine off a cliff.
So to be like, so I'm just I'm curious, are there other
examples of coaches in history who've gone over or fall off a
cliff? And then brought it back because
normally. Yeah, Indiana.
It's like when that happens. It's either like Wilson's first
year, or like, Mallory's last year.
That's no. And I think it's an interesting
point. I mean, look, it does happen,
normally, it's not this far off. Cliff like, you know
Northwestern is probably the easiest analog for IU in the
conference. I think northwestern's got a
better infrastructure in terms of the way that they run their
program under Fitzgerald. But you know, they've dipped out
of Bowl eligibility and then come back.
I mean that that two years ago versus last year was a great
example that way. They were 3 and 9 in 2019.
They came back when we're in the Citrus Bowl last year at seven
and two, you know, we saw that happen with with Michigan State
where they would have tremendous seasons.
You know, the, you know, so you go back to for instance, 2015,
they the three years prior to that they went Rose Bowl,
Cotton, Bowl Cotton Bowl and then they went three and nine
and it was like what happened and then they came back and they
went to the Holiday Bowl, the following year and won 10 games.
So, it does occur. I think the problem though, is
all of those programs, when they've had a really bad year,
they've had the infrastructure in place where it's like, well,
everything went wrong and this is something that we're going to
go back and rely on. There were only several greater
years of success. I don't see that right now with
IU and that that's a concern, you know?
The I mean, Kenji kuriyama grounded.
Us asked what excites you about next season?
And I don't know because not this year, you know, all those
things that I rattled off like the, the Personnel loss, on the
one hand, you can look at things and you can say, well, good that
those guys didn't perform, but they did perform the previous
two years. So I don't think it's as simple
as that. You have seasons like this where
whatever is going wrong, you know, as much as this was a
mediocre season, a disappointing season with that loss to
Michigan State. They still could have gotten to
a bowl, it would have been a minor Bowl but there the path
was still there and they responded by essentially
scuttling the ship and you know the whole thing took on water
and you know, then suddenly you're losing to Rutgers by 35
points at home like this. So you do get these Seasons
where things go. So, completely off the rails
that it's almost hard to To separate what was actually bad
versus. What was guys just kind of
throwing their hands up and saying, I don't know what to do.
And so, to answer kenji's question, what am I excited
about at this point. The only thing I'm really
excited about is seeing, what structural changes are made to
try to take the pieces that are still there and plug them back
into something that they can believe in.
And that's it. That's really, that's not a
great thing to be excited about frankly.
Is what you're now, you're basically back to this idea that
I don't know what to rely on, because Indiana is going into a
2022 season without a proven starting quarterback, without a
running back, without any reliable wide receiver targets
with the possible exception of DJ Matthews, coming back with an
offensive line. That hasn't shown the ability to
block for not just this past year, but really, for the last
couple of years and a defense that you spent so much time
getting older Older and trying to put pieces together for a
season where they could capitalize on the ball.
Hawking nature of what they did in 2019 and 2020.
You've lost all of those guys after a bad season, like what
are you building back to at that point.
So I don't know what I'm excited about.
And that's this isn't the first year that I felt that way coming
into an offseason but it's been like a decade since I felt this
way where I'm just, like, I don't know what I'm supposed to
get hyped about for 2022, because what I see, right now,
Now on the roster and in the coaching room has an inspired a
lot of confidence in me, I mean, does anything stand out to you,
Scott? I mean I've hit this a couple
times it to me, it's a double-edged sword.
What I'm excited about is our schedule is a lot easier to
start the season, right? So as an ice Runway but I'm
nervous. It also makes me very nervous
because to me, there's a ton of expectations for next season.
Also, they, they can't start like two and two because you
finished the season at Ohio. State home, depend State home to
Michigan at Michigan State at her home to Purdue.
I mean, that's a, your ending the season with your with,
basically, what was the beginning part of our season
this year. So you have this Gauntlet
hanging over you? They got to start good next year
and I'm very nervous a lot of expectations because if you go
like if you go out and lose at Northwestern first game of the
year or you can't beat Cincinnati on the road.
It's like there's you've got to get this figured out in the
offseason. So yeah, I'm nervous about the
easy schedule, start the year. They've got to get it done.
I'm also, you know, like you I want to see changes but it's
also it's like I'm nervous again because you're basically asking
Tom Allen is going to have to hit the transfer portal or find
guys somewhere else. But it's like that is completely
against the his being of I stick with my guys that you're asking
a coach now to on-the-fly kind of change his demeanor and
change his way of doing things, but he's going to have to
because like you said, we don't have a Quarterback going in the
next year, the we can see a reliable quarterback, that's
willing to have the offense to the Bowl.
You're going to basically have either an offensive coordinator,
we're not interested in or a new one.
Like there's just there's a lot of things that I don't like and
you're having a coach change, a lot of his believe.
He's going to change a lot of his beliefs going on the next
year. But the main thing that I don't
like is I'm not sure how good this team is going to be, but to
me, there's going to be not, the expectations are obviously going
to be different than this season but there are Going to be real
expectations to start next year because if you start off slow,
or you lose one or two games to start next year, then I think
everyone's going to think. Alright, 19 and 20 were the
Mirage? Like this is the reality?
Yeah. No.
I think there's a lot to that, and I think that there's a real
question mark right now about what, like, what is this
program, really? Because it's easy to, it's easy
to forget that at the end of the 2018 season, a lot of people
were very down Down on Tom Allen.
Now they've lost their second straight bucket game, they'd had
their second straight five and seven season.
A lot of people looked at this team and said, Alan to be 5 and
7. I know, I know that's the thing.
It's like people but those were those were legitimate concerns
at that point. And now, I mean, I don't think
anybody conceived of the idea that I you would be to intent.
Like the idea was the bar has been raised far enough to the
point where that just isn't going to happen.
Happen. Tom Allen has got something
moving and so this this is we're both guilty of that.
It was like we're Bowl. Sure the preseason like ours our
floor is higher. Yeah, no question.
Our floor has been raised like, five wins is kind of our floor.
You know, we got a lot of questions about coaching changes
and I literally can't go through all of them.
But let me let me tackle a couple that are representative.
Well, first of all, So dr. Hoosier rights in is there any
one thing I you can build on going into next year?
I've got nothing after thinking about it for a while.
I think as you mentioned it's probably the schedule and how
forgiving the schedule looks at the beginning of the year.
That's not really something to build on per se, but at least
softens the runway for you as you're getting ready to go into
the season and I do think that counts for something because if
you can get confidence under your players early much like
this season, spiraled out of control.
Roll, last year, went the opposite direction because they
started off with that win versus Penn State and suddenly they
were rolling. And I think that does
particularly with the with the teams that Alan seems to put out
on the field belief. Self-belief really does seem to
matter to them in a way that is maybe more important than it is,
for other teams who have more of a reservoir of process as
opposed to a motion. Beyond that.
I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that they would
build off of gut feelings is from dr.
Hoosier right now, is that they keep the guys who can recruit
and turn over the rest of the staff 5 plus changes.
So this is where something that you mentioned.
I think makes a big impact on what is going to happen with
this iut moving forward, which is what is Tom Allen believe and
what is he willing to do to effect change?
Because, you know, Allen with the success of 2019 and the
success. 20/20 really turned Elio into a brand.
And this idea that this is a, it's a culture that Fosters love
it, Fosters support, it Fosters picking each other up.
And, you know, that's resonated I think with a lot of people,
it's one of the reasons why everybody was so excited about
this team. It wasn't just that they had
one, you know, however, many 21 games in the previous two years
or 14 games in the previous, two years and had put themselves in
a position where They were being taken, seriously, but it was
that it was such an easy thing to root for.
You know, people want the Tom Allen experiment to work.
They want this motivational type of coach, who is, you know, gets
a lot of comparisons to the Ted lasso character.
They want that to be something that works in college sports.
And I get that. But this is the downside, like,
it's easy to preach Elio on the and then you get a season where
your two and ten you got guys. Ring during the season before
the bucket game, like the week of the bucket game and you can
clearly see just through a rudimentary evaluation of how
the team is performing on the field that there are some
significant inadequacies in the way that the team is prepared.
The way that the play calls are coming down.
All of that. Well, what do you do then?
Do you walk into the staff room and say guys, this is
unacceptable, I'm going to have to let a bunch of you go and
bring in new people, you know, if you look really closely, On
the list of people that coach football for Indiana, the
assistant coach list. It is filled with people who
have coached with Tom Allen at previous stops, you know,
whether that is Darren Hiller who coached with him at
Arkansas, State and Coach with him at South Florida, whether
it's Grant heard who coaches them at Ole Miss, whether it's
you can keep going down the list.
I mean, Cane wall Mac, when he was the defensive coordinator, I
mean, he's the son of Alan's Mentor from a defensive
perspective, you know, he brings in a guy from IMG Adam e that he
worked with in the past. I mean, this is very much, a
family affair, for Tom Allen and I'm very curious if Tom Allen
looks at this and says I got to come in and I've got a
essentially clean house and start over with new people that
I don't necessarily know. I don't know if that's actually
in Allen's character. He may end up having to do it
because it's clear at this point that changes have to be made,
but it is a significant sea change from what Tom?
Alan has done and said through his first five years.
Yeah, it's just it's not normally, you don't normally see
the culture of a football coach change much like, but this
season as you were laying that out of kind of reminds you of.
Like if you start reading like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, fighting
Richard Kawasaki, so you start reading all.
This is great and it's good advice, and he really go and dig
is ago, but he's declared bankruptcy three times, I'm
like, yeah, it's like yeah, it's like the culture is great to you
dig into a little bit like that's but you're right.
I mean, it is, you know, in reality.
What Alan and again, it's easy for you.
And I sitting here on a podcast and I'm in our house is not
coaching football for the outside it but sometimes
honestly, it's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're
in it, you know? But but to me my advice would be
of Allen asked me. Which he's not, would be, you
gotta. Yeah.
You've got a higher completely differently.
You got to hire people. You don't know.
Hire someone is gonna push you like someone who's going to push
you to go, you know, go against your grain it to really
challenge a lot of your beliefs because it doesn't feel like
he's doing that. But yeah, I mean pointe-noire,
Ali football coaches. Don't Shane see pains this?
This hard in their career and to be fair to Tom Allen.
He did do that leading into the 2019 season.
He went out and hired Kaelyn Devore as offensive coordinator.
That was not a pretty well it was not a Surefire higher that
everybody thinks that it was I mean this was a guy who was the
offensive coordinator at a Mountain West School who had had
some success but there were some questions and that was a really
good Higher by Tom Allen. The question is going to be.
Can he go? Didn't do that again.
And, you know, I think the the best way I could describe what's
happened this season. After thinking about it a lot is
that you can lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Tom Allen
from an organizational perspective.
Because I think the most charitable reading is that he
took it incredibly naive viewpoint of what was going to
work, coaching wise, and player wise, into this season, you
know, I think that last year's success under very weird.
Circumstances that probably can't ever be fully repeated
because of covid and everything else.
I you had a bunch of things go their way and not throwing those
back every program. Gets those every once in awhile,
we as we've talked about many times but I think those were
misinterpreted, as items of success, that prove that what
Alan had decided was right, rather than being accidents of
circumstance that happen to play out in Indiana's favor.
And, you know, I think that goes up and down the roster.
I think it goes on throughout the the the coaching room.
A lot of the things that we thought worked worked.
Not because they were what they were, but because of the
circumstances that surrounded those things, and furthermore, I
think that Alan brought a certain level of naivete into
this season in terms of his evaluation of his own Talent on
the roster. I mean, I keep going back, Scott
to all of those those comments from Big Ten media day and from
the start of the Season, where Michael penix was throwing the
ball better than he ever had and we had transfers coming in that
we're going to really make huge impacts and you had a guy and
Stephen Carr who was going to come in and be, you know, a
top-notch back and none of those things proved true.
That isn't to say that there weren't some successes in the
offseason in terms of players that were brought in or the guys
that were, you know, coming back but it just feels like the
expectations. Internally were way out of whack
from what the actual reality was and ahead.
Coach just has to be better and more realistic about figuring
out what they've got and how they're going to go about
game-planning with those things. And that includes the people
that are in the room with them making the decisions Yeah, I
mean, the one of those, you know, part of this is coach,
speaking of Coach never come out and say, Hey, you look like shit
and practice like it's gonna be a rough season.
They always going to have some coach think about how guys are
looking really good and changing.
The the thing that again, I continue to go back to on this
year where I feel a little bit duped is part of my expectations
and me being kind of excited for the year was based on the fact
that it sounded all indications were we were getting 100% penix
back and if that was the case, then I felt like our ceiling was
higher because He could drag things with him.
Well. Okay and it was, I thought it
was either that or you were at least getting Jack, Tuttle, who
had quarterback throughout the spring and summer and was in the
system, you were going to have something.
And it look, I think a lot of this is the reality that it
wasn't just the players as an issue.
It was also the systems that were being utilized, that were
built around those players. Like there were a lot of
inadequacies across the board. Anyway, go ahead.
Yeah. Oh no.
Yeah and that's why like this is not on.
This has nothing to do with penix himself.
It's just he's unfortunately that the guy at the center of
this, that, you know, it bothers me that the coaching staff
either didn't test him enough in practice to to put him in a
situation to see if he could succeed, if he was, you know,
how he was going to play against a team like Iowa, or they did.
And they just didn't see anything again.
From everything that we saw penix was not ready to play at
an elite level this year. I think it's a fair statement.
He just didn't look Look 100% in a variety of ways.
And again, maybe that was maybe him at 70 per--.
Give me that was our best option.
But if that's the case, then. Yeah.
You you gotta, you can't go in and just say he's great, he's
gonna come back at a hundred percent.
But that was the part that worries me, is?
It sounds like the little bits that I've heard, is that they
kind of really didn't put a bunch of pressure on panics and
practice. Because, and then he looks
really good because it's like, he's placed be playing against
no defense and that's, that's not great.
I don't know, I just, it feels They really miscalculated that
and kind of gave themselves The View that they wanted to have of
what penix like this is we want him to be 100% so we're going to
create a view that looks like it and then we're going to be great
and then it's like but now we're playing Iowa.
Again, that's that's the real, that's a real defense that
connects the tough place to play.
So that that misreading of, that really threw me off because it
felt like we never had a quarterback all year.
So again that bugged me. But yeah, it's you, you know, in
a way Way too. If your Alan, this is a
situation to you are. As you mentioned that the boat
is taking on water, like you are an SOS mode.
Like this is where as you look at coordinators, you know, maybe
this is where, you know, you take on a couple of coordinators
on your staff who can bring players the transfer portal like
a maybe you don't want them as coaches.
But it's like, hey, if you got a quarterback come on and be
offensive coordinator, you can coach the old life.
Like I mean, this is where again, this is the thing that
concerns me is there's really no history.
Or example of Allen, even this season is things are falling
apart. He's standing by his guys Till
The Bitter End, it's going to be a complete sea change to see
Alan start doing things. Like, I'm just gonna get some
transfers into take spots away from guys, who've been on my
team like it's it's going to change Elio culture.
I think there's a way that you can still have Elio but also
start doing some things you have to do to run a successful
football program, it's going to be a tougher needle to thread
but I worry that I'm not sure. Sure Allen's going to make all
this is because, like I said, this is the point where it's
like, hey, you got a quarterback you got a coordinator job on
this team in my mind and this actually feeds into a question
we had from Mike, see, big picture, where does Elio go from
here? The season seemed to prove that
it doesn't mean much if you have poor coaching development,
execution etcetera, sadly, it feels like the brand is kind of
stained. How does Tom Allen turn this
thing around? It's an it I think it's a valid
and important question because it is so woven.
To the fabric of Tom Allen as head football coach.
This idea that I'm not just a football coach, I'm also a
Lifestyle brand, you know, I mean if it's and and look,
that's that's happening a lot. Like I listened a couple of
weeks ago to I think it was it was a South Carolina football
game and they were going on in the last seven minutes about
Shane Beamer installing this culture of Love within the
Gamecocks locker room. It sounded exactly like the Elio
sales. Pitch, but I think Mike brings
up a good point. Elio is great when you're going
eight and five, or you're winning, you know, six out of
the seven games in a regular season.
But as happened in 2017 and 2018, when you don't go to a
bowl, it invites. A lot of people to look at this
and say look, this sounds like a great slogan but there's a bunch
of teams going to the postseason and Indiana is not you're going
to need to do. Little more explaining or maybe
a little more tough. Love tle.
Oh, perhaps, you know, to make us believe that this is actually
a sustainable model and here we are again.
Also suffer you're going to and 10 and like when you well,
someone in the balls, like that, it's like that.
It's like, all right, where's Ellie?
Oh well, and that's putting yourself up for and that's the
big. That's the big problem this year
is that a season that was fully, you know, sewn in the bed of
elio, the Elio garden and ends with a bunion.
No several guys transferring during the course of the Season.
Not just at the end either like it wasn't just Javon sweatin.
It was also, you know, Tim Baldwin transfers in the middle
of the year and get a couple of other players.
You've got Tom Allen calling out his offensive coordinator in
multiple press conferences. Even though he's not like
specifically doing it by name about not throwing the ball
enough, you've got him calling out, his quarterback in press
conferences for not throwing the ball enough, you've got, you
know, as you mentioned guy, Kicking another guy in the nuts.
In the course of the old Oaken Bucket game, leading to a
15-yard penalty, you've got a receiver, who's not even really
making game attempts at getting first downs and things like
that. I mean, it's just, it's hard to
look at that team and think other anything other than this
looks like every other team that doesn't really care too much
about itself and that is the exact opposite of the Elio
brand. And I think, Mike's right, like
as much as the last two years, We're great evidence of hey,
this culture of elio can work. This is essentially the Yang to
that Yin. This is the what gosh when
everything goes wrong. You have to question, okay?
What else is there besides the slogan?
What else is what is the actual binding agent?
Because it didn't seem to last through the acid test of things
going, wrong throughout the course of the year and is, as
Matt Blasco pointed out in, or at least asked in his question,
let me get down to it here real quick.
As I mentioned, there were a lot of looking that up at this
reminds. How does that?
How does IU football recover from this?
This wasn't a five and seven season that we ran into good
teams. This was a season where they
weren't competitive for the last five weeks and that's really
what It's down to like uh I guess the only other thing.
Yeah, go ahead. Like it reminds me very much
also as a fan. Here's my take is reminds me of
God. This was like six or seven years
ago or five when they had the Breakthrough.
Like that was a big marketing slogan, like you and I just we
lost our minds over that because it's like these are the games
you got to break through. Like it's just it drove me
bonkers and what do they stepped off of that?
And kind of went away like fine, you can keep Elio keep it on the
front of the helmet but like to me Me just as a fan, like, let's
step back from the Elio. Think don't get off that but
like, let's just take it down a notch and like, I don't want to
hear about it as much. We start winning again.
Like if you start off rough next year, like I'm I'm not going to
want to hear more Elio talk. I think that's also something
your lifestyle brand that cracks me up.
It's like that's that is a valid.
I was again with with marketing Alan Doug.
Look you still have Elio but you gotta just tone it down until
you start winning again because so it gets very very aggravating
To deal with that kind of Pious, this when you're losing well, I
wouldn't so much Terminus Pious - as much as I would look at it
and say, that's right. That's right where you're right.
It's their look, there's a lot to be said in human psychology
for small easily identifiable and, you know, slogans that are
easy to latch onto in the locker room.
Certainly, I think that a lot of successful coaches try to
distill things down to a very small like core element that
Layers focus on and that's it. And you know, every year we hear
this with Alan like what's your one word for this year?
And look I don't like there's anything inherently wrong with
that and in fact I think that to some degree maybe that has
helped Indiana at points my big problem and I would actually
divorce this from the Elio sloganeering and I would focus
this on another aspect of the program is that I just I fail to
see where the infrastructure is right now with this team.
That allows them to easily bounce back from stuff, not just
overall with this season, but in individual moments throughout
the course of games, you know, I've been harping on this for a
while now. Really.
I mean, this goes back to in the Wilsons 10-year and before, it's
not like this is unique to Tom Allen but Indiana's teams always
struggle with discipline. They always struggle with
penalties, they struggle with. I mean, there were the number of
snaps that just weren't completed in the game versus
Purdue. Made you wonder, like, do they
practice snapping the ball? There's so many little errors
that other teams that are successful.
Maybe not more talented, but more successful.
Just don't make, you know, when you look at the Iowa's and the
northwestern's, you know, and to some degree, even the Michigan
State's so much of what they've done and what they've built
their little mini Empires on has been focused on look, we're
never going to out recruit Ohio. State were never going to out
recruit Michigan. What we are going to do is make
sure that we've got the fundamentals down, the make
sure. Our special teams are top-notch.
Make sure that our our lines may not be the most physically
imposing, but they block with great technique.
I see none of that with Tom Allen's Indiana, I see, you
know, last year, I saw a team that survived on in the early
going explosiveness and in the late going turnovers and as many
people pointed out, that's not really a sustainable model and
you know, we were overly optimistic and where we
shouldn't have been in thinking. That maybe those things could
sustain but when you have a season like this, where the
turnovers don't come and the offense isn't able to put those
explosive plays out there because they just can't block
and can't keep plays alive long enough to do things then it
really does return. My mind to the idea of I don't
think the love is the issue. I think the discipline is the
issue and Allen through. Now, five years I I don't I
haven't seen that particular aspect of this program Get
better. And to me, it has to if Indiana
wants to keep this sustainable. Because when we talk about those
other teams that have bad Seasons, like I said before,
they always have that to fall back on and they can make it
look like guys gets. Let's let's get back to our
fundamentals, I don't know what Indiana's fundamentals are like,
what like what are we hanging? Our hat on in a program.
If it is Elio, if that's what you're hanging.
Your hat on, I think we've seen through this season, that that
can go off the rails very quickly.
There needs to be something more technical.
One more technique based that is the focus of what this program
is doing going to blasquez question about like, how do you
turn this around? You know, the, I don't know if I
do, if I have been don't have answers but the other piece that
makes me very nervous, kind of the scary dystopian view is if
you go micro and macro. If you take the Cincinnati game
is kind of a microcosm of this season.
Everything's going good. They're kind of on a roll and
then you have the Mike McFadden targeting hit.
It's like the defense never recovered from that and then
it's like we're fumbling we're having Red Zone problems.
Like to your point. There was already some of those
things happening before that hit, but it's like that
targeting, hit happened McFadden's out.
And then it's like, well, now we're just we're not allowed to
have a functional defense, like now we just, we got to give up
five straight, you know, scoring drives, but then if you go
macro, you know, it's like that. Mike McFadden hit ended our
season, but you go macro that slide started.
The Cincinnati game. Yeah.
We beat Western Kentucky by 2. Like barely and then we didn't
win again. It's like then that's what
really frightens me is. We couldn't stop the mental
slide in that game, fine like that happens to teams that you
can have a play where it's like, it's just too much and like,
it's happening in real time. It's not ideal, but it's not the
end of the world, but to let that basically what feels like
slide extend out for the rest of the season.
There's no stopping point where like, Hey, we're going to get
our together for one game and kind of Bring It Back Together,
you let it just. Into the abyss.
That's what really scares. Me is, if you go micro-macro,
like how do you slop that? Stop this slide from going into
next year? I don't know.
And I don't think again that keep on harp coming back to
this, to me. It's not going to be changes
around the margins. You have to just almost have an
entire seismic change of everything on this program,
which is mind-boggling because it felt like we were going in
the right direction, but it almost feels like we're starting
4.0. It's a blast is question.
I don't know that. That's what scares me is.
To me like that Cincinnati game is a micro of the macro of the
entire year and how do you stop that?
Because that's the other thing we haven't shown like how do you
stop this slide because Tom Allen hasn't shown that he can
stop. The slide, we are currently in.
So until that could they answered, I don't know.
Well, the argument I guess would be twofold if you were taking
the perspective of Allen or defending Allen and it would be
a injury sent the thing off the rails, you lost.
Your starting quarterback, you lost your starting running back,
you lost several key members of the defense and you know, what
are you going to do? You've lost that many people.
Now, you could just call this a huge.
Coincidence. Perhaps, I think the other
argument that you would make in favor of the perspective that
things aren't unrecoverable is that it was a very tough
schedule and Indiana kind of got the Daylights beaten out of them
in the first half of the season and just kind of lost their will
to compete. And, and any coach would have
trouble recovering a program that has, you know, so that
suffered as many injuries and as many early crushing losses from
a, you know, a mentality. T perspective and look maybe
there's something to that. I guess the flip side argument
that I would make is this team was bad from the word.
Go. You know the falling behind Iowa
by as much as they did early in that game was not an accident
because we've seen over the course of the Season.
Like this was not, yes. I know.
I was going to the Big Ten title game, but this is an Iowa team
that has. I mean, they lost to Purdue
they, they've struggled in certain games, they're not the
world. That they looked like in that
Indiana game at the beginning of the year and at every point
along the way you know yes Indiana was competitive against
Cincinnati. Yes.
They were competitive against Michigan State but they still
lost those games. And then when you look at the
way that the players played in the season played out, it's hard
to get very optimistic even if you wanted to take the injury
thing into account because you're losing so much production
going into next year as we talked about already.
You're losing so many of the players that you were going to
rely on this year. That didn't perform.
It's not like those players can, you know, have a deep think to
themselves and just work really hard in the offseason and come
back and get better. Many of those players are just
going to be gone and now you're replacing them with unproven
people and you still don't have the core issues of.
Well, what's the offense? Like, how does that approach?
Is the defense still good. Is that, you know, I mean it
under Under Tom Allen, this defense has been consistently
pretty good. This defense got really bad over
the course of the Season, some of that and much of that.
On this podcast we've attributed to you know they were actually
playing really well at the start of the year and the lack of
offensive production eventually just ground their mentality into
the dust but fact of the matter is like by the end of the
season, the defense wasn't really defending anybody.
I mean it was pretty much open season whether you were Rutgers
or Minnesota or You all those offenses had their way with this
Indiana defense. I have a hard time attributing
all of that to just a poor mentality from the offense not
performing and so it Scotland and I'm not, I'm not going, I
know you're I know you're taking I'm not arguing with you on this
but like to me the counter to the schedule argument would be I
think it's it's somewhat Fair it's like the Rutgers game
stands out as like a really hard thing to to navigate with the
schedule but to me it's like all right fine.
The schedule was really tough to start the year you were.
If that was your side, my point would be all right.
Well, I will see you next year on October 22nd 2022 because
next year, schedule starts off easier and like Michigan state
was in a similar situation this year.
They started eight know. So, how about you?
I you next year, you have seven easy me.
Quote, air quotes easier games to start the year before you get
into the meat. How about you start six in one.
Like let's let's talk then it to me it's like I'm going to check
out until and see if you can Art the next year for no.
Yeah. And then we'll get interested.
But it's like that's kind of, unfortunately, where you leave
the fan base is if you're gonna get, I know, it's not you Galen.
But, like, if you're gonna take those sides, like, all right.
Well, then I'll see you next year.
Like, I'll just, I'll check out. And then, if you don't show up
in those early games, and I'm out because like, I know, we
don't have what it takes to beat Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan,
State, Purdue Penn State. But you can still, if you start
six in one next year, maybe you get the ball rolling downhill,
and maybe you can beat Penn State at home, like who, Uno's
like let's see how things roll. But yeah, it's like then you
again. That's where next year becomes a
weird year where I'm not sure we're going to be good but
there's pretty hot. There's higher expectations to
start off really good. So you know as we kind of enter
the home stretch of this podcast I'll say this I think that a lot
of the questions have revolved around, you know what what
changes are going to get made on this staff?
And what is Alan going to do? Some have asked, you know, Do
you move on from a lot of people.
Look at Kalin tube or look at came Wommack first of all, that
won't happen, and I don't think it should.
I mean, here's the thing. I, first of all, it's a
financial and possibility at this point it's a 34 million
dollar buyout and a lot of people have said, well gosh,
that was a foolish move by I you but I do think it's important to
keep in mind that even if Indiana has what everybody
assumed is going to be a disappointing season this year
and finishes like six and six or seven and five if you look
around the country at all of the Openings that are in coaching in
college football. Right now, you know, I mean,
Florida LSU USC. Virginia Tech.
I mean, there's several programs that are out there.
I know it looks silly now to give that big of a buyout to Tom
Allen, but if you really feel strongly and I think there's
every reason to feel strongly about Tom Allen after 2019 and
2020, that this is the guy that you want to make sure that you
keep the guy that you don't have to go hunt for a new coach.
Of course, you give that kind of in a Tension you, of course, you
give that kind of a buyout, because that's the cost of doing
business in college football. Right now mean, Michigan State,
gave a much larger and more financially naked extension to
Mel Tucker. We don't know if that guy's
actually good. We know he had a good season
this year with a bunch of transfers but we don't have that
guy's actually good but you have to do that.
Now, does it tie Indiana's hands?
A little bit. Sure.
But I also think that as irritating as this season has
been, you have to give Tom Allen sufficient credit for what
happened in 2019 and what happened in 2020 to say,
alright, Tom, we're going to entrust you with the program as
up and down or and mostly down is Indiana.
Football has been historically, we're not in a position yet
where we are going to be a Destination type of job, where
we're going to be able to go out and just hire whoever we want.
And you don't just throw away those two seasons and act like
they didn't exist. And if you don't, give that kind
of a buyout extension, you're probably not going to That coach
because he's probably at Florida, Florida State, maybe
maybe by now, if you don't do that, that said, Alan has got
basically three years to play with to get this program back on
track. So what does he need to do?
The first thing, obviously, is he has got to get a better
offensive system in place. You know, the thing that's been
noticeable about IU football in the Tom Allen tenure is that
Alan loves to hire Fire basically a chief executive
officer for offense and let that person run with it Allen either
doesn't have the confidence in his grasp of offense to do
things or just feels like, you know, he's a defensive guy.
The offense needs to be left to the offensive coaches in some
cases. I think that's actually an
admirable trait. You got to, you got to be aware
of what you're not aware of in football, but he's got to do a
better job of hiring, as you know, the mike deboard.
Word hiring was not a good hire but it was somebody that Alan
trusted and, you know, that offense was not great, but it
also wasn't the worst offense in power 5 football.
The Kalin de bourgh higher was inspired and in one year in one
offseason the offense suddenly transformed into something.
It was able to win football games, the next Sheridan.
Higher was the higher that you make when you feel like your
system is up and running and you can bring anybody in.
And train them up and he had done that on the, on the
defensive side, like the cane Wommack, higher was kind of the
same sort of higher it worked. There, it didn't work with Nick
Sheridan. He has to realize that and he
has to move on and it's nothing personal.
But this was, as I mentioned on several occasions, this year,
this was among the worst offenses in the entirety of the
power 5 and that's a real problem.
And, you know, we need to go inside the numbers real quick on
this Scott. And just a reminder that when Go
inside the numbers. We want to use the power rank.
Add Fang who runs the power rank gives out PhD.
Level science and predictive elements around college football
and college basketball, and you can take advantage of this as
well. You want to go to the power
rank.com /. AC we've got bowl season coming
up if you want to get, maybe a wagering Edge or just have a
better understanding of what's going on in the college
football, world and certainly during March Madness when
basketball rules around. That's really where the And
butter is at there's a guide that Ed puts out with the power
rank. That is pretty good.
I mean it gives you a lot of insight information, a lot of a
lot of thoughts and perceptions on game.
So check out the power rank.com /, AC free newsletter, sign up
for it. You won't regret it.
Be sure to check out the power rank for some higher level
analysis, on college, football and basketball.
But anyway, looking at the numbers when I just want to the
power rank, you'll see the numbers for.
Are you offense? Just not good, right?
That's all says, that's not good.
Not good. There's no numbers.
But, you know, you look at you look at the grades right now.
For this, I you team this year and it's, it's just it's so
clear where the problems came into being with this team, you
know, across and ironically, you know, this last game against
Purdue from a yardage perspective.
Just from a moving, the ball perspective was among the better
games at Indiana had played, but across the course of the season,
the passing game was just really bad.
Bad in so many games. So many different levels
throughout the course of the year, the blocking was not good
there and you know even Beyond just the basics of for instance
the quarterback play for different quarterbacks played
frankly, none of them looked good at any point throughout the
course of the Season receivers struggled to get open.
The line struggled to block, you have to hit the reset button on
that. Tom Allen has to realize that
whatever he's done up to this point is what led to this and
that there were signs of this Steer that blew up into
full-blown symptoms this year so that has to be addressed.
And I think other and it is a good start.
Just real quick like to your point about like you just a
realities of, you know, having to pay Alan what you pay.
Like, there's also just a reality.
He has to understand too that this is just business, but if he
doesn't fire Nick Sheridan, when you said, he has like a
three-year window, it's like he's kind of cutting a year off
his own window. If he doesn't do that this
season is like, all right. You're down to two years.
Maybe one year. It's like you're now putting
your own self. It Risk.
And if he doesn't do it, if he doesn't do that are often still
bad next year. It's like the only other
options. Like, all right, well then we
got start. Look, he's getting rid of out.
I don't want to say that. I don't want to go there, but
the he has to understand that to that.
This is the order of operations is like a things go really bad.
On one side of the ball as the head coach.
That's what you replace. And that gives you that
three-year window to kind of figure things out, but if you
don't do that, you're kind of bucking the trend.
And now, it really does gonna all fall on you.
Well, and look. And this is again, it's nothing
personal with Sheridan. You know, this, that we went
through the same thing. Doug Mallory, almost a decade
ago. Where Mallory was the defensive
coordinator, he's a legacy name in the IU program and the
defense's were just awful and yeah, it like you do a couple of
years of that. You see the things are not
trending the way that they need to train.
You got to make a change, it's just the way that the business
works and you know I think Alan above all else.
Has to realize that in this goes back to the question or the
thoughts that that Mike. See shared if Elio is your brand
and you want to, you want to To put forward this idea that you
have a specific style and approach to coaching football
that's better than what you would get elsewhere.
You have to have some results that go behind that you're
actually endangering that brand and you're endangering the
Indiana football brand. By creating a situation where
your system doesn't actually look like it results in any sort
of successes long-term. Like if it's just flashed on the
pan sort of stuff that doesn't have the same level of
consistency Allen. As you mentioned earlier, has to
start taking really hard looks at everybody.
On a staff and saying look we've been here for five years.
What have we accomplished? And where is where?
Things trending right now? Yes, there have been some
recruiting successes. Those did not play out on the
field. Yes.
The team will probably be better.
Maybe a couple of years. Now, but what you're looking at
next year is going to be a young team that's going to need some
veteran coaching leadership from people who have won at the
highest levels. And I think the thing that I
keep coming back to Scott is Alan.
I, in my opinion, has to go out and say, look, we have to get
and pay for an experienced offensive coordinator.
Who can come in and no BS, just rearranged what Indiana's
offense does it? We've seen it happen.
Elsewhere in College football. There's no reason why it can't
happen here, but it's going to require Allen going out and
getting somebody who is already proven rather than trying to
cultivate somebody from the ground up.
Like he's done with all of his coordinator hires thus far
except for Mike deboard. You go across the board.
It's like all of them. I mean yes came Wommack worked
out but Nick Sheridan. Didn't Kalin Deboer worked out
you know. The so he's actually technically
I think had more successes than failures.
I think the jury's still out on Charlton.
Warren certainly, but you can't afford to take a dice roll on
the coaching changes. You have to go out and get
proven people that's going to cost money.
But that essentially is the stratosphere that Indiana put
itself in when it gave Tom Allen, the big contract.
Indiana said, we want to be successful at football.
We need to be successful at football.
You have to take those managerial changes seriously
because honestly, if Alan replaces, the guys that need to
be replaced right now with people.
Who are similarly, not of a power five caliber.
I think you're going to run into the same problems over and over
again. And then look, I think Alan
really has to dip into the transfer market in a way that he
has not yet so far as a coach. There were some successes coming
out of the transfer market this year.
I think, certainly DJ Matthews looked very promising.
And then of course you got injured, you know, certainly I
think Kramer and Anderson. We're successful relatively
speaking Anderson in. Ocular there were some busts out
of the Transformer, you're going to get that, but that is going
to be the like, Steven car looked pretty good and it's hard
to say if he was good or not based on how bad a line was.
But he looked serviceable. So, it is one of those
situations where in the area that you're in, it is possible
to right the ship relatively quickly.
If you make the right decisions as you mentioned, you bring in
coordinators who can bring in their own people and expand the
network of players that you're drawing from.
Indiana at this point. I don't think I can afford
another season where they don't go to a bowl, just from a
perceptional perspective. Look, if you're trying to get
people excited and you've got this relatively soft Runway to
start the season. Next year, you have to take
advantage of that by getting players in who can re-establish
confidence. And you know, look I think to
some degree were kind of seeing that with the basketball program
right now and I you where the key players for IU, some of them
are guys. That came back.
But the difference that Xavier Johnson, for instance, has made
the difference that Parker Stewart has made in the way that
those offenses. The offensive Rhythm flows, the
way the defense goes all throat Miller cop in there as well,
that is change the mentality in part of this team and that's
essentially what's going to have to happen with IU football.
It's a lot harder when you're replacing.
There's so many players in football, it's hard to do it,
but I think the idea is, if you can bring in people who can push
internally, that's going to get the guys.
You are coming back back on board.
Get them excited. You know, we've seen big
turnarounds from year to year in college football.
There's no reason why I can't happen again.
But Alan has to put a better infrastructure in underneath or
I really do worry about what Indiana would be able to do
coming in the next year. Yeah, and you mentioned to me
that he's going to have a couple of years to do that but it's
like it gets it gets late real quick as Yogi Berra would say
it's like you look at 2023. We start the season at out.
You know we have Ohio State Home nigger playing Penn State in
October 7th. I mean, the seat that schedules
get tougher. Like next year's schedule is set
up to get us to a bowl and hopefully an okay Bowl.
You know, it's just, it gets tougher later quicker.
It's just like, it's like you've got to get some, you've got to
make hay next year. You've got to figure out a way
to get done to your point, you don't.
So you don't have time to groom another coordinator.
You've got to bring some of you can get it done.
My only request is he went through Deboer and deboard like
can we just Let's go with somebody whose name, I
Sheridan's nice and different. Like, if anybody's name starts
with d e, or has afforded it like just your own?
Actually, you're not, you're not who were looking for here at IU,
that's it. The whole things just like, it's
so hard to keep them apart. That's your request.
That's of all the things that's your request.
Okay, we did have a question from from Keith, and this look,
one of the things I want to say, this was a tough season on.
Everybody was a tough season on players and coaches.
There's a Season on fans as well.
The question we got, if players can enter the transfer portal,
why can't alumni we provided sellout crowds only to witness
yet another excruciating, Lee Bad season.
Can't we transfer support to a school like Ohio State to give
both fan bases. A better sense of perspective.
I wouldn't want to do that to myself Keith but no in all
seriousness. Thanks for the question.
I do think the fans kind of got lost in the shuffle and and I,
you know, for as much as the core.
Group that surrounds IU football, likes to bag on IU
football fans and talk about how they're bad fans and they're not
loyal fans. This season is an example of why
there's not a lot of loyalty among IU football fans because
the fans showed up. They showed up for the Iowa or
the Idaho game, they showed up at the Iowa game, there were
large numbers of IU people there they showed up for the
Cincinnati game, they showed up for the Michigan State game and
they got nothing. You know, I've often said this
is probably in power 5 football the leash rewarding fandom in
all of power 5 because there have been so few successes.
And so many disappointments over the course of the entire history
of the program that, you know, even a Kansas made the Orange
Bowl back in 2007. I think, our 2008, even a
Vanderbilt has gone on runs where they've won eight or nine
games a few times. Illinois has been to the Orange
Bowl, I think? Yeah.
Illinois. Illinois is going to a Bowl this
year, you know? I mean, Maryland's.
Going to a Bowl this year record.
That's another Point. Yeah.
Sorry to your point of getting nothing like you're right.
I want to talk with us for a couple minutes.
I know we like, but the fans really got nothing because we
showed up, we were there, we not only didn't get wins.
We got a pretty bad game day experience like Cincinnati.
Nobody and I, we don't want to get back into.
This is based on a lot of factors.
This is this happens every year we play Ohio State played
Michigan, the stadium gets busy, it's not a great.
Perience. The lines are long.
The concessions are not ready. It's like every part about it
was bad and then you just get kicked in the nuts.
The entire season of losing. So to your point like it wasn't
just the wins and losses that were bad.
It's like I worry that, you know this is why it's tough being a
fan is that when things are going good, we're not, we don't
have the infrastructure to take care and have a good experience
on game day. Yeah, it's it's not good.
And this is why next year, I've said this before, like now I I
want to hear word one about the fans next year.
Like we did our time if nobody shows up for the first couple
games, like it is all we are incomplete.
Prove me mode now with this team for next year.
Well that's the thing. I mean this is the problem as
was summed up by a couple of other people in comments about
the amount of Goodwill that was burned this year.
Yeah, because you had everybody excited, you had the entire
offseason to get people excited and it wasn't just a gosh,
they're disappointing. Finished.
Five and seven kind of year. It was a everything went off the
Rails. And the team was basically
unwatchable for the last six games of the season and that is
hard to bring people back from. And and again, it's like when
when there's complaints, about why isn't the stadium full, why
don't people complain, you know, support our youth football more.
This is why? Because there's just very little
reward. The reward have course, you
know, the best season. And I you football, the last 50
years happens when nobody can be in the stadium except for
parents and families to watch the games.
It's sad, it's disappointing, but it's also the reality.
And I think that when this program thinks about what it's
doing, this is why I think it's why I you can't afford a foreign
aid or five and seven season next year because the whole
reason I have a successful football program is the revenue
that you bring in from ticket sales from concessions, things
like that. And if you're putting out a
subpar product, eventually people will just Be like I'm not
going to go except for the diehards who frankly I think
have largely been poisoned by the well that they've been
forced to drink from for them for their whole lives that their
their priority system is almost a little bit screwed up at this
point. I mean, it really is interesting
meeting a long time, IU football fan, you just your mate, your
brain kind of gets battered to the point where you lose sight
of what actual successes and you focus more on what makes us feel
good. You know, I mean, people love
Tom Allen in this group because he makes them feel good because
he makes it feel good to be an IU football.
Fan in terms of like, hey, this guy's saying positive things and
creating a positive atmosphere around IU football.
And that's really been a key part of the Allen era, but if
you can't back that up with at least some semblance of results
and worse, you end up with the season that is as bad as
anything Jerry dinardo did as bad as worse than anything Cam.
Cameron did I guess except for that first year when they went
to an Nine. You create a situation where
what you're supporting is more, just the feeling of IU football
being good, rather than I you football actually being good.
So anyway, all that said out there, just there have to be not
just changes made in the coaching staff or in who the
players are. But there has to be a shift in
what this program emphasizes. Because what we saw at the end
of the day with this season, is that this system when
everything's going great work, Really well but when things got
tough, this team really had a problem pulling together and
that really does speak to maybe some kind of internal cultural
issue that needs to be rectified before next season starts.
And so when you look at next season, you talking about the
fans and talking about support looking at it.
Now a little bit more intently, being a knife and four years.
That first game is huge. You have Northwestern, you're at
home. That's the lowest bridge to
cover in the Big Ten. You have to win that game if you
want to get fan sport because let's say yeah, I'm gonna do the
thing that drives you nuts, the hypothetical Scott, if you lose
that game, your next two games are at home against Idaho,
Western Kentucky. Nobody cares.
It's going to be. All right.
Well we beat them. Why are we meeting last year?
And we sucked like No One's Gonna care about those games.
You have two games on the road and then your home against
Maryland. It's like at that point.
Yeah. I mean, if you win both the
Cincinnati Nebraskans the road, you might get a little bit of
pecan interest but it's like, wow.
But we already lost the one big 10 game.
It's like, you have to start off.
The win against the team that people know is least a big 10
team, it's like, hey, we want a Big Ten game for the first time
in 18 months. This is good.
If you lose that first gave you may not get support because then
after that Marilyn game at home you got, you know, Penn State
and Michigan and Purdue. It's like it's just it gets
rough again and then people are going to the weather's bad.
So it's it is again, it gets late really quick here.
You've got to start off with a win in that game or else.
I'm not sure how you get support back.
I I don't have these it. I'm not as I'm not as wound up
in that. I do think though you have to
win seven games minimum next year.
I mean because that like and in the schedule does set up to do
that, this is where the question is coming.
I mean, look, you're in the Big Ten.
The Big Ten is tough, it is tough to win games in the Big
10. But you do have a schedule set
up where you should be able to win enough of those games if
your program is actually tracking the way that it's
supposed to be tracking what we're worries me.
That Maryland finished four games ahead of Indiana.
In overall wins this year. Rutgers finished three games
ahead of Indiana, and overall wins.
Nebraska had more overall wins than Indiana.
This year. Indiana finished the year as the
worst offense in the big tent. They finished with double-digit
points, scored in conference games, double digits, not triple
like everybody else double digits.
So I'm less worried about where the winds come from.
Because if you lose to Northwestern and beat Michigan,
nobody cares about the Western game at that point, as long as
you finish with a winning record, and look, I think the
idea that you're going to have a bunch of fans in the stands,
you'll get your normal 45, 46 thousand for that opening game.
I do think that's where it matters because if you come out
and you look like, you don't know what you're doing.
Why would anybody hop back on the bandwagon at that point?
So anyway, I don't know if we answered any questions
effectively in this podcast, Scott.
I mean, outside to send, this is why this probably won't be our
last football podcast of 21, because we got to wait and see,
like, what changes Tom Allen makes, you know, there have to
be some changes. They just have to be, you can't
go through a 2 and 10 season. When you started the season
ranked 17th and say, well gosh, we had a lot of injuries and
things were tough. We do.
We're going to run it back next year and we'll get it right that
time. Like I just don't think that
we're Indiana's at as a program, I don't think that's acceptable
right now and you said something to you talk about coaches.
Like there's a long Litany of not great.
Are you football coaches like Bill Lynch who One who never had
a season where they didn't win a big 10 game, right?
Like that's unfortunately Tom Allen has put himself in kind of
fun, you know Wilson did it but it was his first year but even
he did it. But there's there's not a lot of
bad coaches have been through. I you football and not all, you
know, most of them have found a way to win one big 10 game a
season have to go over. Is you're putting yourself in
pretty bad. Elite cat territory?
Yeah. I mean it's something that it's
really jarring when you put it in those terms because if you go
back and Get the seasons, where Indiana only one there like 10,
big 10 games, you got 20 21, you've got 2011, you've got
1995, which I mean Bill, Mallory had one of these seas.
That was kind of the clue that the Mallory thing was over.
You got 1984. So we've got four, you've got
1973. Which was Lee Corsos first year
and then you got to go all the way back to 1961.
So, you know, that's you're talking about five seasons in
the last, Almost 60 years where you didn't win a single game in
the Big Ten and that's not to say that, there weren't a lot of
terrible IU football program, you know, during those
intervening 50 years. But this is going to be on a
special list of teams that couldn't figure out a way to win
a single Big Ten game, and that is.
And again, I go back to when you look at this year, again, the
numbers like this might be the biggest Point, differential,
like, not only do we not win a game, like, at least if you're a
Nebraska it's like, well, I saw a joke, like putting a brass key
in the big tent, Allegan you don't to be close like, All
their games are like within three points.
You know that that's the other thing that might get lost with
this year. There were only two games where
we theoretically, could have won Michigan State in Maryland.
Like, and in neither of those games, I think, did we have a
chance to win the gate in Maryland?
We needed a, I guess in Michigan, say, we had the ball.
We would have scored it like but in Maryland we never had the
ball where we could have taken the lead, I guess.
And what I have to go back and remember whether we had on-site
kick to get it, but it's like, you had your two games were Even
had a chance to win the rest of them were just complete ass
kickings, just getting your brains beat in.
There's not even a world where it's like a discos different in
that goes, like, you have to say, 85 things go different for
us to beat Rutgers, which is mind-boggling.
That's, that's the scary part of this is.
I bet some of those Mallory, the Mallory year, I bet we were more
competitive and more games. Like, that's the really scary
thing is. You only had two games that you
even had a shot at making one? No, that's the truth.
I mean, you go back, you go back to that. 1984 season, which was
Mallory's first year that team competed like, it wasn't a good
team. There was not a lot on the
roster but that team competed and even the 1995 season were
Indiana. When towing eight, I mean, they
lost by 72. Illinois.
They lost by nine at Iowa. They you know, they they didn't
That season. Kind of went off the rails in a
similar way but they weren't getting they only got blown out
in a couple of games that year. Unfortunately, one of those was
Purdue that was a pretty bad bucket game that year but it's
just jarring. And this is where I think a lot
of fans and ourselves. I think are just I'm cautious
because everything that we saw this year from the results to
the way that the player is reacted or didn't to the frankly
kind of cluelessness of the way that the plays were being called
and the games were being conducted in the overall
training and development of players everything points to
this being real bad. Now I think we're fortunate,
we're fortunate, and this is where I, this is where my Paws
comes in. And we're going to finish the
podcast after this. We're fortunate that this is
probably the easiest era in college football to hit the
reset button. Change what your program is all
about and get back into a competitive landscape if you're
smart enough to do it. And if you're able to, you know,
if you have the financial wherewithal to go out and make
the changes that you need to make will Tom Allen, be able to
effectively do that and I don't know the answer to that question
and that is kind of frightening. I'd like to think so.
I'd like to give Alan the benefit of the doubt and say,
look Inherited a roster that had some problems with Kevin Wilson.
He took a couple of years and then he was able to elevate that
program to two of the most successful seasons in Indiana
football history in years, three, and four.
I don't know what to make of the fact that with so many people
back and with his hand-picked coaching staff, he then goes to
and 10. I'd like to think that that's
the outlier. As you mentioned, next year, is
really going to decide, which one of those was the outlier,
and that's why I guess I'm a little ambivalent on
definitively saying what my Things are going into this
offseason because so much of my feelings right now are just like
I'm I am essentially keeping everything at arm's length
because I don't know. I have yet to see any evidence
from what we saw this year that things are going to get better.
But I also think that if Alan is smart in the way that he handles
this offseason, he can make the changes that can at least get
Indiana back on its feet back to a bowl and then kind of get this
program back. On track but a lot of its going
to depend on what happens in the next two to three months.
Yeah, yeah. So anyway, all that optimistic
note, first of all Scott, we've been doing this for we've been
doing this for what 12 13 years now with football and gosh, it's
tough. You know, the last two years
were so much fun to talk about and this year was just so much,
not fun to talk about that, but I appreciate you sticking with
Me throughout the course of the podcast season and talking about
everything. And I really think that
ultimately, it's, these are the kinds of Seasons that make this
hobby that we do kind of an interesting one, because we
don't have to do this. Like, we're not getting paid
much. I mean, do we know and most of
that is just kind of like, hey, here's, you know, here's some ad
reads and stuff like that. It's not like we're getting a
salary. This is not our full-time jobs,
or anything along those lines. So it is Of the labor of love,
more than anything else and I appreciate your alarm on Sunday
morning. Hey thanks.
You gotta put 8 a.m. on the Sunday after Thanksgiving so
that we could podcast I did as well.
I was already up the kids made sure of that, but, but thank
you. And I'd like to thank all of the
folks that have listened throughout the course of, not
just this year but previous years, all of you who take time
to write questions on Twitter. I wish we could answer all of
them. I've actually tried to save some
because I want to see what happens in the next couple of
weeks and when we come back and do our next football podcast,
Cast, we can talk about those perhaps in more detail, maybe,
but we really appreciate you folks taking the time to listen.
There aren't a whole lot of places where you can regularly
talk about IU football, honestly, and we've always tried
to make Crimson cast a spot for that.
It's gotten us into trouble sometimes, but we've tried to do
that. I think that you folks is IU
football, fans deserve it. It's certainly cathartic and
therapeutic for me to have not just Scott, but other people to
talk through the thoughts and feelings that I you in genders
with its football program, So thanks for being along with us
on this ride. I wish it had been a better one.
We had all had dreams of, maybe a Florida bold or at the very
least, like Las Vegas or the Music City Bowl.
Now, there's nothing. Now there's an off season of
discontent, and all I can say is, we'll be back to talk about
IU football later on in the winter and will certainly be
back to talk about is football next year.
Yeah, no, I Echo all of that. I'm always it.
Always warms my heart. We see stuff on Twitter, like, I
got to write back to him. A chronic, Hoosier was like
that. Taking us for just giving us a
place to listen to IU football talking it's it is nice to hear.
Like you said we do this as a labor of love like we don't we
don't really make any money. We do this because we like it
and it feels like your needs to be an outlet for me.
We still do basketball. Like we're still going to be
talking about basketball is kind of what started this.
But you know, it felt like there needs to be an outlet for
football. I feel like we built a nice
structure here and I it always warms my heart when people come
up and they say they listen to it you know thanks for do with
it. It feels very much like we've
Bit in some kind of like weird p.o.w. camp where it's like, oh,
thank you so much for talking about this.
Like, there's somebody out there like me who, who watches this
and listen to this and but II, it's it, do it in.
Like I said, I've always this podcast.
Has always kind of been for me a way to a get things out.
But also, I thank you, man, for doing this with me because my my
feeling is always, I can't wait to hear what Galen thought about
about that, whether it's a win, whether it's a loss, whether
it's that like it, that never /. That's always kind of the ethos
of me. And the podcast is like I want
to get my stuff out. I have my rants but I always
want to hear what you have to say it.
It's always good. And I always leave these feeling
a little bit better. Maybe not this season, but we
shall see ya. Now, look, I appreciate that.
And it's the IU football is kind of like this epic Bartok Saga,
you know. It is.
It is like, it's like the Canterbury Tales just with a lot
more losing. And it's always fun to talk
about it. Even if the actual product isn't
necessarily fun, I'm really curious to see what happens.
I care very deeply about IU football as a program and I care
very much about our fellow IU football fans and I would like
them to experience Joy. In watching IU football just as
I too would like to experience some Joy, you know?
And it's it just becomes tough in these sorts of situations and
unfortunately, it's these sorts of Seasons that feel like the
rule rather than the exception and this is almost like a really
sad throwback to the the 2000s, which I still maintain.
Might be the worst decade. And I youth football history
where you get to the end of the season and you're like, I don't
know where we're am. I supposed to draw the Hope from
like, you know, where Where's the infrastructure that I can
lean on and say it's alright. I know this season stunk but
we're going to be back, I don't know what back is with IU
football at this point but we'll keep keeps them Faith.
The Tom, Allen's got a plan and is able to execute it and we'll
keep some faith. That are you football.
Just had a really unfortunate year and next year might
potentially be better. I'd like to see some evidence of
that before I get excited again but you know we'll see what
happens. Anyway, Scott is always.
Pleasure will be back talking basketball after, let's talk
basketball after Syracuse will be back, probably Wednesday or
Thursday night or Friday night of this upcoming week.
Big win for the Hoosiers last night against Marshall.
Big win for the women, as they knocked off.
Miami, a good start to the season for both of those
programs. And, you know, for those of us,
for those of you who only know, Crimson cash from football, we
have basketball coverage. We've done that actually longer
than football coverage. That was the first thing we
started doing back in 2008. So we look forward to talking
with you about all that you can. Please check us out on Crimson
cast on Twitter or you can check us out on Facebook as well for
Scott. I'm Galen, thanks to all of you
from the bottom of my heart for another ayehu, football season
for all your contributions. Bring back the Bison will catch
you folks on the flip side. So everybody