1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:06,640 All right. Good evening ladies and 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,920 gentlemen. Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,360 from Crimson cast here today, part of the back home network. 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,120 We're scheduled to start here in a couple of minutes, but we 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,160 wanted to go ahead and get the live stream up and running. 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,080 So the people had a chance to tune in for the beginning and I 7 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:29,880 believe we are rolling now. So as we go along here, we are 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,480 doing an emergency podcast to talk about the news of the death 9 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:38,680 of former Indiana head basketball coach Bob Knight, who 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,800 passed away, we believe today at the age of 83. 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,720 For those who know Coach Knight's situation, he'd been 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,800 battling some pretty severe maladies here over the course of 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,920 of the last couple of years. And while the news is not 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,200 shocking, it's it's certainly shocking from the standpoint 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,040 that it's the passing of an absolute icon. 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:08,640 And you know I think of any listing of the most well known 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,560 people in the history that of Indiana University or connection 18 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,640 with Indiana University probably in the top three or four and 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,520 maybe the most well known person ever associated with the 20 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,560 university at least on a national scale. 21 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,800 Scott, you know a little bit about the the circumstances of 22 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,040 of Coach Knight's passing. We we don't know most of the 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,480 details obviously, and that's not really why we're doing the 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,720 show. We wanted to try to talk through 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,280 what people are feeling and experiencing right now, as this 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,120 was someone that you and I took a class from late in his time in 27 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,040 Indiana. It's someone that is fans. 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,600 We grew up watching not just his teams but him. 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,520 And for a lot of the IU fan base, this was the prism through 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,600 which Indiana basketball was viewed. 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Indiana basketball certainly has a tremendously long and storied 32 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,600 history, but for our generation, you know, both of both Scott and 33 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,759 I are in our 40s. For the generation that came 34 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:14,600 before us, certainly Bob Knight was synonymous with Indiana 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,840 University, was synonymous with the type of basketball that 36 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,560 people still associate with the university and certainly brought 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:28,280 some of the most successful and high profile moments to Indiana 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,120 University of anybody in the sports realm. 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,640 And this is a relationship between Knight and Indiana fans 40 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:40,560 that certainly had its ups and downs over the last 20 or so 41 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,240 years. Then we'll talk about that a 42 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,840 little bit as well. But Knight and I, you being able 43 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,280 to reconcile towards the tail end of things. 44 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,440 You know, I think one of the big concerns people always had was, 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,560 you know what if Coach Knight had passed before all of that 46 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:00,160 ever occurred. The fact that Knight was fully 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,280 back within the IU family, was at practices regularly, had been 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,000 fully embraced by Coach Mike Woodson and his staff and the 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,800 players was, you know, really kind of a it was a happy ending 50 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,040 to a story that had certainly not looked like it was headed 51 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,280 towards a happy ending over the course of time. 52 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:24,000 Your thoughts? I guess first and foremost, this 53 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,040 news only broke about an hour and a half ago. 54 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,040 I think we're both kind of still digesting it to some degree, but 55 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,440 what were your initial thoughts when you heard the news? 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,040 Yeah, I mean I just one thing to say with what you were talking 57 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,160 about is I would even take a step back and take the 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,040 university part out of it and one of the most well known 59 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,960 people just in Indiana. You know what, we'll talk about 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,800 a little more. You know, I'm, I'm a year older 61 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,240 than you. You know, different generation. 62 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,800 No. But I, you know, growing up, we, 63 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,600 I moved from New York to Bloomington in 1985. 64 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,240 And so I grew up in Bloomington in the epicenter of, you know, 65 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,800 the height of Bob Knight. And you know, when we would 66 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,840 travel around to different parts of the country, we'd even travel 67 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,080 to Europe. You know, you would say Indiana, 68 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,560 where are you from? I'm from Indiana would be like, 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,280 oh, Bob Knight. And like literally, I heard that 70 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,800 multiple times. So, you know, you are right 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,360 about Indiana University, but it's also just Indiana for, you 72 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,480 know, I've written down some stories here, You know, just 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,400 just for Indiana. He was such a large figure. 74 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,800 And I think everybody, you know, probably under 30 or 35, it's. 75 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,360 I don't want to sound like the old guy, but it's just you have 76 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,320 no idea how big of a figure he was. 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,200 Not just the university in the state, just he was synonymous 78 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,120 with Indiana. You know, when you ask my first 79 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,840 thoughts, I was thinking of that on the drive. 80 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,640 I was just actually in Bloomington today driving home. 81 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,560 You know, you and I have been friends for for years and don't 82 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,280 want to. Not trying to get too personal 83 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:53,320 here, but it is, you know, kind of a different podcast, you 84 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,560 know? Honestly the first thought was 85 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,720 you know we both lost parents and my first thought went to Pat 86 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,520 Knight. You know there was the the video 87 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,280 that just came out with the IU media department of Pat Knight 88 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,080 kind of telling some Bob Knight stories. 89 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,400 So it's it's fresh on my mind but you know we'll we'll 90 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,840 definitely talk about Bob Knight the the majority of this but 91 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:12,840 for. Just to be totally honest, like, 92 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,080 you know, losing a parent is unmooring. 93 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:19,080 It can be a shock. And so, you know, my heart goes 94 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,480 out to the entire family. But I just think of, you know, 95 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,520 Pat Knight was a little bit older than me. 96 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,480 I remember going to see him in games. 97 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,000 You know, we remember seeing him play. 98 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,520 And so just, you know, I know everyone's heart goes out. 99 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,760 I just wanted to say that that, you know having been there, I I 100 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,000 just think of Pat that was, you know that was my that honestly 101 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,320 was my first thought. Yeah it's it's certainly very 102 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,440 sad and and obviously his son Tim as well who is a bit older. 103 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,880 I mean it it's no, no absolutely, absolutely. 104 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:52,360 You know, it's interesting because it's it's hard to really 105 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:59,040 reconcile the the position that Bob Knight occupied in the 106 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:03,360 culture of the state of Indiana, as you mentioned of Indiana 107 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,120 University basketball. And and really just the the way 108 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:14,080 in which Knight carried himself and the kind of connection 109 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,840 between his teams and the fans that he was essentially the 110 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,400 arbiter of. He was, he was the person that 111 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,360 helped to channel that. And night. 112 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,960 I talked about night in my in the class that I teach every 113 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,480 semester and it's part of a a larger history of Indiana 114 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,160 basketball. And I always say, you know, and 115 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,000 and this is not meant to offend anybody, but you know, Indiana 116 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,480 basketball and the and the place that Indiana basketball holds in 117 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,280 the hearts and minds of so many people that grew up in Indiana, 118 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:52,000 went to Indiana University. It's almost like a religion in a 119 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,040 lot of ways. And I and I don't mean that from 120 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,040 a a worship perspective, but I mean that from a cultural 121 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,200 perspective. It is. 122 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,960 It's like you're part of a secular church. 123 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,960 And Bob Knight was essentially almost a papal figure within 124 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,200 that church. He was the leader of not just a 125 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,200 basketball program, but he was essentially what a lot of people 126 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,520 looked up to in terms of, you know, this is part of your 127 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,400 childhood, this is part of your adulthood. 128 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,680 This is part of what you are wrapped up in emotionally and 129 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,720 mentally and intellectually and and the amount of time and 130 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,240 effort people have gone to over the course of time, over 131 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,360 especially over the last 40-50 years. 132 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,600 They're going to Indiana Basketball games, organizing 133 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:43,520 their entire vacation, you know, or or their work schedule or 134 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,280 their recreational schedule around when Indiana basketball 135 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,240 games were on. I mean that's going on to some 136 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,800 degree for a long time. But from the time that Knight 137 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,000 took over as head coach, really through the time that he was 138 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,320 fired as head coach, that 29 year period, Indiana basketball 139 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,240 was such a huge part of so many people's lives and night was the 140 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,320 Seminole figure in all of that. He was the constant and you 141 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,280 know, even no longer at Indiana. He cast such a tremendous shadow 142 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,800 over the basketball program and never really left the minds and 143 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,960 thoughts of the people who followed IU basketball. 144 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,760 And you know, I think that's a fascinating spot to be in as a a 145 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,480 public figure, as somebody who coaches a basketball program. 146 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,360 And and I don't know that there would ever have been quite the 147 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,440 same level of connection between a fan base and a basketball 148 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,320 coach the way that there was between Bob Knight and Indiana. 149 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,080 And and it's very similar to you know, how you you'll read about, 150 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,640 you know, Bear Bryant and and the Alabama fan base or you 151 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,800 know, there's other coaches that you could mention that fall into 152 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,000 that category. But Knight was Indiana's coach, 153 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,600 and and he was as much the state of Indiana's coach as he was 154 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:05,240 Indiana University's coach. And it's it's been, you know, 155 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,960 really fascinating as someone who grew up in a household where 156 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,280 literally, like everything revolved around Indiana 157 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,000 basketball from October until March. 158 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,000 You know, my fandom came through my father, and my father wasn't 159 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,400 an Indiana native. He moved to Bloomington in 1964. 160 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,080 You know he started going to Indiana games at the new field 161 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,800 house. You know his first favorite 162 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,440 player was Vern Payne who you know that was that was well 163 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:38,720 before IU hired Bob Knight. But Knight inspired fervor and a 164 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,800 passion in so many IU fans that what you know you almost have to 165 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,520 have grown up around people like that or have grown up in a 166 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:51,240 household where somebody felt that way to really understand 167 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,800 what it was like. And it it's it's almost 168 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,480 impossible to put into words Scott and and I'm, you know a 169 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,080 lot of these emotions and a lot of these feelings I'm kind of 170 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:05,080 numb right now because a lot of my my younger days and the 171 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,600 relationship I had with my own dad and the way that that that 172 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,920 interacted with IU basketball. You know, we're all tied in with 173 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,360 Bob Knight and and with with Bob Knight's particular way, not 174 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,960 just of coaching, but the way that he inspired people to 175 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,800 believe every time Indiana took the floor that they were going 176 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,400 to find a way to win. And the immense amount of pride 177 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:36,360 and passion that that helped to generate in a state that frankly 178 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,440 didn't have a whole lot else going forward. 179 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,200 It felt like for large stretches of that time period, I mean, 180 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,560 Indiana basketball under Bob Knight was essentially the 181 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,080 professional sport of the state of Indiana. 182 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,760 It was that or Notre Dame football. 183 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,320 You know, it wasn't the Colts who weren't even here until 184 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,560 halfway through Knight's tenure. Essentially, it wasn't the 185 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,040 Pacers, who were very much a peripheral team until very late 186 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,920 in night's tenure. It was it was night and it was 187 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,560 IU basketball, and it wasn't just night coaching, but it was 188 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:07,920 Knight's presence. It was his words. 189 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:13,280 It was the way that he described the world that people liked and 190 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,800 wanted to gravitate towards. It was a world of order. 191 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,880 It was a world of discipline. And it was ironic because many 192 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,280 of those things were not actually how Knight himself 193 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,200 conducted himself. And I think being an IU fan 194 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,720 during that period, you kind of got used to that dichotomy. 195 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,720 And it didn't bother you nearly as much as it bothered or seemed 196 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,760 to bother people who weren't IU fans or people who were from 197 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,320 outside the state. Which I think may be why it's so 198 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,120 hard to describe exactly the the mix of emotions with this news, 199 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,240 because it's been it's been a long time since that was the way 200 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,480 that it was. But it's still fascinating. 201 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,240 Like how how real that feeling is, and how much Bob Knight 202 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,000 represented a particular period of time within not just Indiana 203 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,200 University history, but really the history of basketball within 204 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,160 the state. He was such a larger than life 205 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,760 figure and you met you you said something about like how he was 206 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,640 ours. You know that that he was our 207 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,920 Bear Bryant but it. It it during that time, it felt 208 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,120 like the epicenter of college basketball was around Bob Knight 209 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,080 and and not, you know, like you said, it was so much more to him 210 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,160 than just being a great coach. So I want to dig into that. 211 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,560 He almost doesn't get enough credit for his grade of a coach 212 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,280 as he was. But you know, it wasn't just 213 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,360 that. It was there was all of, I don't 214 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,240 want to say antics, but it was just his persona. 215 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,760 But what was also so unique about it was he was beloved by 216 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,360 everybody in college basketball. You know, John Thompson would 217 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,880 always, like, love Bob Knight. And you know, they even that the 218 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,000 refs would glowingly tell Bob Knight stories and other coaches 219 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,240 would tell Knight stories. And you know, you know, my my 220 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,520 most interesting status, like the winningest coach in the Big 221 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,400 10 in the 80s is Lou Henson, not Knight, not Jean Cady. 222 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,360 But it's like, but Knight. Knight had the light was the 223 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,800 orbit that the Big 10 revolved around. 224 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,840 And up until, you know, the mid 90s, it felt like he was the 225 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,080 orbit that college basketball revolved around. 226 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,600 And every coach he went against, you know, loved him and was hug. 227 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,840 It just, it felt like he was just, it was and it was so cool 228 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,520 because he was ours and it felt like everything revolved around 229 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,000 us. And then you know, you know 230 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,120 Hoosiers comes out and it doesn't have to do with night, 231 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,880 but it's like they're they're doing things that, you know, 232 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,200 there's definitely a night vibe in Hoosiers. 233 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,120 Not that Blue Chips is even close to the same, but it's like 234 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,480 Nick Nolte. Well, they going, they went and 235 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,720 studied Bob Knight. Bob Knight, It's like, I wonder 236 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,920 who Emmett Scott or whoever the Booster was. 237 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,720 We studied but different story for a different pod. 238 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,760 But you know, but even The thing is like, while this is sad, you 239 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,440 know it is. And it's like there is also a 240 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,400 humor part. Like I sit down with my wife for 241 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,240 really quick dinner. My wife, who, you know, we were 242 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,560 at the game, the Ted Valentine game together was one of our 243 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,680 first, you know, 4th or 5th dates we went to the Ted 244 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,760 Valentine game, which we can talk about. 245 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,120 That was a wild experience. So. 246 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,480 So you know, and one of my favorite April Fool's jokes with 247 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,280 my wife for a couple years was, you know, oh they they fired Bob 248 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,680 Knight and then it it became a reality. 249 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,520 But. You know, she even said, you 250 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,720 know, well, are they going to bury him upside down? 251 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,680 Because if you don't know and not being flipped like one of 252 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,040 his favorite speeches, which if you haven't seen it, you will 253 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,160 see it, I'm sure. And I think it was actually Pat 254 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,000 Knight, Senior Day was, you know, when, when they when my 255 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,120 time on it was the previous. It was the previous year 256 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:31,680 actually. Yeah. 257 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,560 You know, when my time on earth is done and you know my critics, 258 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,720 my activities here are past. I want they vary me upside down 259 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,560 and my. Critics kiss my ass. 260 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,680 It's like they're going to play that now, but it's like there's. 261 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,080 There's humor with Knight 2 where anyway, just it is I'm 262 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,000 with you. It's so conflicted and it does 263 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,080 bring me back to it. It's very visceral, that moment 264 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,400 of going to. I started going to games with my 265 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,840 dad, and my dad was not a native Hoosier. 266 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,920 He grew up in, you know, California, and then we were in 267 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,040 New York and we come here, but like you as a young. 268 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,240 Young boy in Bloomington, it's like, that's the ideal. 269 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,880 And like that's how you play and you heard stories about the Bob 270 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,520 Knight basketball camp and it was like with a little bit of 271 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,160 terror, with a little bit of fun. 272 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,360 But it's like it was the way and like that's how you build men 273 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,720 it. It's yeah, there's a lot, a lot 274 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,040 of a lot of emotions it is no. And I mean we're getting some 275 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,600 great comments from the folks that are joining us here live 276 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,880 and we really appreciate it. I mean that that that note there 277 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,520 from from Bryant Onsoni, you know, I think a lot of, a lot of 278 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,560 boys and girls growing up in Indiana in the 70s and 80s. 279 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,160 I mean, it was a similar kind of thing. 280 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,360 It wasn't everybody, you know. And I think what's important to 281 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,000 remember is that, you know, IU basketball wasn't a monoculture. 282 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,480 There were people when we were in school and before that who 283 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,360 didn't like Bob Knight who felt like he the game had passed him 284 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,560 by or that he was you know not right for Indiana. 285 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,120 And and look I mean there were a lot of things that you know we 286 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,280 every every tribute you're going to read about Bob Knight is 287 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,000 going to say he was a flawed man you know but he was a genius and 288 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,000 that that's most geniuses is that they are they are generally 289 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,120 very flawed people in one way or another. 290 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,360 I think what made Knight so fascinating as a as a person was 291 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,360 he was such an intelligent person. 292 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,160 He was he was such a a well read individual. 293 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,920 I mean you any anything any any profile you watched of night any 294 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:36,760 profile you read of Bob Knight. It talks so in depth about how 295 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,560 you know how how familiar he is with these different aspects of 296 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,280 literature and history. And he was he was such a huge 297 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,960 you know student of the Civil War and of World War 2. 298 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,120 And Patton Patton, you know we know you and I. 299 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,800 The class that we took with Knight in the I guess it would 300 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:59,120 have been the fall of 99 you know he's he he only really 301 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,640 taught three of the lectures it is an 8 week class. 302 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,120 Norm Ellenberger, we. Took a class with Norm 303 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,880 Ellenberger. Yes, Bob Knight made some. 304 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,119 Taught by Bob. Bob Made some guest appearances, 305 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,560 but they were great, you know, because you'd walk in and I mean 306 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,040 it was like, you know you're you're a 1920 year old kid, 307 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,079 you're sitting in a a desk in the IU press room and Bob Knight 308 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:18,160 comes strolling in, you know, and he told everybody, you know, 309 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,440 go by the Art of War, by Sun Tzu, which is not what you 310 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,280 weren't getting that in most of your other classes on campus at 311 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,560 that point, at least not the ones that we were taking majors 312 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,880 for. But he was he was an 313 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,760 intellectual who had decided to devote his life to understanding 314 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,640 and teaching the game of basketball. 315 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,160 He was insanely successful. I was trying to describe this to 316 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:48,280 my my class the other day. I mean, this is a guy who was so 317 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:54,000 successful that in his first year he took a team that hadn't 318 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,120 been to a post season in five years to the NIT, and then in 319 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,560 his second year he won a Big Ten title and went to the Final 320 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,240 Four. In his third year, he won a Co 321 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,040 championship in the Big 10, didn't go to the NCAA, but 322 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,760 instead went to a different tournament that they created and 323 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,000 won that third year, went undefeated in the regular 324 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,520 season, won a Big Ten title and lost in the regional final to 325 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,360 Kentucky. And in his fourth year went 326 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,320 undefeated, won a Big Ten title and won the national 327 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,960 championship. I mean four Big 10 titles in his 328 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:31,040 first five seasons and playing a style that would become one of 329 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,520 the primary dominant ways of playing basketball at the 330 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:39,080 college level for the next 15 years, and doing so with a 331 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,800 talented team. But not the type of talent that 332 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,440 you normally won that level of games with. 333 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,360 And you know so much of what he did was based around relatively 334 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,120 simple principles that were executed Florida State because 335 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:57,040 he was so good at preparing his teams to do what they needed to 336 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,680 do on a night in, night out basis And that kind of a start 337 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,000 to a career sometimes that's your pinnacle. 338 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,160 And we see so many coaches they they hit that and they drift off 339 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,320 instead. You know Knight wins another 340 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,640 title five years later. He wins another title six years 341 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,920 after that. He makes another final 4-5 years 342 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,880 after that. He he won so many games, he won 343 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:26,240 what, 73% of the games that he coached at IU, which is bizarre 344 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,160 like how how like hard that is to do. 345 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,720 And you know, it's funny like you and I, obviously we're at IU 346 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,800 at the tail end of his time and people were complaining about 347 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,000 how mediocre IU was. And then you look back and it's 348 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,320 like with imperfect teams and he was certainly as much to blame 349 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,440 for that as anybody in terms of the recruiting. 350 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,200 At the time, he was regularly getting single digit seeds and 351 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,240 winning 20 games in the regular season. 352 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,680 It's like that was the low point for the most part. 353 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,680 It's like that's that, you know, the the basketball side of 354 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,880 things. It was such an era of success. 355 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,160 You mentioned IU being the epicenter of basketball. 356 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,120 And I and I tell people you know younger students you know now 357 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,640 that I I work with it's like how people think today of North 358 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,440 Carolina or maybe North Carolina is a bad example But if you know 359 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,600 Duke Kentucky Kansas like that echelon of teams that was what 360 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:27,480 Indiana was from basically 1972 to 1993 a 20 year period of time 361 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,720 where Indiana was the the pre eminent program in college 362 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,480 basketball and it was it was Bob Knight. 363 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,120 I mean that was those were heights that Indiana hadn't hit 364 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,920 in 15 years prior. You know, Knight took over a 365 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,520 program that was was lost, you know, had had you know losing 366 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:49,400 seasons, had had player revolt. The year before that he he took 367 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,560 over was was a program that had been stuck in the mud for a 368 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,240 variety of reasons. And he harnessed it and turned 369 00:20:55,240 --> 00:21:00,280 it into a basketball superpower and gave IU fans something to 370 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,800 celebrate and not just be proud of, but feel like they were part 371 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,640 of something bigger than themselves for the longest 372 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,440 period of time. Those are just a fascinating 373 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,080 period of time in college basketball, and it really re 374 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,960 established Indiana as one of the top programs in the country. 375 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,360 You mentioned his early start in Indiana. 376 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,640 I just want to highlight that. And then just two other coaching 377 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:25,200 things is yes, I mean by 76. They were 32 and O he was 378 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,200 Knight. Sorry, 76. 379 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,120 Knight was 36 at that point. So at the age of 36 he had a two 380 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:37,520 year run of going 33 and or sorry 63 and 1:00 and had a 381 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,200 undefeated and a title, But you even go before that like. 382 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,560 You know, he took over Army at 25 years old. 383 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,840 And I don't have the, you know, Ken Palm doesn't go back that 384 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,000 far. So I don't know Army stats. 385 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,400 But, you know, he's 18 and eight. 386 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,680 His first year he's at Army for six years before he's 30. 387 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,320 He's 102 and 50 at Army, which, you know, I don't, I don't know, 388 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,760 they're Ken Palm, who they were playing. 389 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,320 But it's like that's a great record. 390 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,560 He did all of this, like you said, had a pinnacle of a career 391 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,840 by the time he was 36. And you talk about like, 392 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,600 Wonderkins and it's like, oh, like this guy is a young coach 393 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,320 like. He's 25, just straight to head 394 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,560 coaching, straight to success. Had you know five straight 395 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,280 winning seasons at Army. I I was also thinking about this 396 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,000 with Knight. Just the legacy is that you 397 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,280 know, I've, I've heard this talked about like, you know Tom 398 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,120 Brady for example, is like, you know he has a cup. 399 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,120 You know Brady's got a lot of Super Bowls. 400 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,680 But you could say like he, you know, he was unlucky in a 401 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,520 couple. He was lucky in a couple. 402 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,400 Like this is probably the right number. 403 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,440 The thing with Knight is. The 76 title, that's that. 404 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,000 That's not like that was a title. 405 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,720 The 81 title, that was a title. You could maybe say that 87 like 406 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,200 Okay. That's a key smart shot. 407 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,720 Like that's a toss up give. You know he's 2 for three, but 408 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,680 you look at 70 like he's honestly for as good of a career 409 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,680 as he had, was actually pretty unlucky because. 410 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,720 Outside of a Scott May injury, they're probably 33 and or 63 411 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,400 and O or you know, they they go two straight seasons 412 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,720 back-to-back, undefeated. He has another title and 75, we 413 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,080 all. You know, I don't just 414 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,280 automatically give him the 93 title with Allen Henderson's 415 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,360 injury, but that's a very bad injury to a team that had higher 416 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:23,880 aspirations. There's also, you know, I don't 417 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,600 want to dig too much into this, but it's like there's a world 418 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,320 where if Knight's able to keep it together. 419 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,760 He takes that 2002 team that Mike Davis took to the final 420 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,040 game. Maybe he has a title there. 421 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,280 You know there's what I'm getting at is like, you can, you 422 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,360 can see with a little bit of injury, Luck Knight could have 423 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,200 5-6 titles and just things playing out right. 424 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,400 But it's like you can't. You can't also say like, oh, he 425 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,920 would have lost them like the eight, the 76 and 81 ones were 426 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,160 just hardcore, straight titles. Well, you know, and it's 427 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760 interesting. I there was a comment from Gary 428 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,680 Parrish of all people. I was watching some of the 429 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,240 tributes in various places and Parrish was like, you know, 430 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,520 there's a there's a real argument he was the greatest 431 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,640 head coach of all time. And that isn't, that's not 432 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,680 controversial to IU fans, who I think already think that Knight 433 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,960 is the greatest coach of all time. 434 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760 But it's interesting watching some of the reaction from across 435 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,920 the country because they, you know almost all of the reaction 436 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,840 has been well, not only did Knight win at this insanely high 437 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,400 level, but he never cheated. He he had great disdain for the 438 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,480 NCAA, but he obeyed the rules to the letter because that's how he 439 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,880 was as a person. You know he and you know I've 440 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,760 always felt to some degree and there's a that quote that has 441 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,280 been repeated a few times today where you know he said something 442 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,360 along the lines of the joy is not in cheating to get great 443 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,640 players. It's in beating the teams that 444 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,320 cheated to get great players night. 445 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,000 You mentioned that that that amazing streak that he rattled 446 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,560 off by the age of 36. And I almost want, you know, 447 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,720 there's a there's a pardon season on the brink where you 448 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,160 read where he almost walks away from coaching after winning the 449 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,840 NCAA title in 81 because in his mind at that point he's 40 years 450 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,240 old. What, what else is he going to 451 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,960 do? Because at that point he didn't 452 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,640 think he was going to be the Olympic head coach because he 453 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,000 had been passed over for the 1980 role, which actually ended 454 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,920 up going in his favor because the US didn't play in those 455 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,640 Olympics. And it it's what what I think is 456 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,200 fascinating about Knight as a as a figure when you try to apply 457 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,760 straight up logic it doesn't always work because Knight was 458 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,120 motivated by things that I think are hard for the average person 459 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,040 to understand. Knight didn't go on coaching to 460 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,160 to set the record for the most wins in NCAA history. 461 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,320 Even though he did. He didn't go on coaching after 462 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,360 that 81 season to win another title. 463 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,680 He goes on coaching because while he's trying to sort his 464 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,960 future out Landon Turner gets into an accident driving to 465 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,400 Kings Island and and breaks his neck and his and you know it 466 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:07,000 becomes a paraplegic and knight. Yeah and again this is this is 467 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,160 from season on the brink. But Knight at that point 468 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,760 realizes he can't leave. Like he's he's got an emotional 469 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,040 and a, you know, he's got a responsibility, I guess for lack 470 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,880 of a better term. And you know that it it's 471 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,480 fascinating because real quick, also, part of the aura of Knight 472 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,680 is that he gets Landon Turner drafted by the Celtics well, and 473 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,920 this and this becomes part of the the very complicated legacy 474 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,560 of Bob Knight. You cannot nobody none of these 475 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,800 obituaries or anything that are coming out will really be able 476 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,360 to fully capture the essence of Bob Knight because you can't 477 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,400 it's it's too it's a larger than a lot it's like trying to write 478 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,280 a single book about Teddy Roosevelt like it's such a multi 479 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,680 faceted life. It's it's it's it's it makes no 480 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,760 sense if you put it down on paper and with night you know 481 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,000 it's a little more you know night wasn't president. 482 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,280 It's a lot more, it's a lot more constrained, but what he's. 483 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,360 People, you already said he's Pope. 484 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,160 He's right. But it's fascinating because, 485 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,280 like, you know, here's a guy for whom, on the one hand, it's a 486 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,560 constant stream of, well, look, he acted like a jerk here. 487 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,960 Or he, you know, he he had these publicized incidents that were 488 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,160 really negative. But then on the flip side he's 489 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,320 behind the scenes very quietly. He's raising you know hundreds 490 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,080 of thousands of dollars to get Landon Turner's family a a van 491 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,120 and and an equipped wheelchair so that he can move around. 492 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,760 You know, he's he's he's putting, you know, bringing 493 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,960 Turner in and putting him at the end of the of the scorer's table 494 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,000 and and letting him watch games there. 495 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,640 And you know it he would he would do things and would would 496 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,680 focus himself on doing things that really did make a 497 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,040 tremendous difference in people's lives. 498 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,920 And he didn't publicize those things. 499 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,680 Now others did publicize them for him, you know, because you 500 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,680 you would hear about these, you know, he would go and he would 501 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,320 raise tons of money for the library. 502 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,280 He would go and visit, you know, kids in hospitals and wouldn't 503 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,400 wouldn't want anybody to know that he was there. 504 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,640 Now, you know you knew about it because you heard about it 505 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,520 enough, but it was hard to reconcile for people who wanted 506 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,960 to paint him as as simply a bully or simply somebody who was 507 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,080 out of control all the time. And it's why I think there's so 508 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,360 many varied ideas about Bob Knight as a person. 509 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,080 You know, you had players who couldn't stand him, you know, 510 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,080 and would leave the program. You have players who would 511 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,200 probably literally throw themselves in front of a bus for 512 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,120 the guy, you know, Yeah, he, he inspired such a tremendous range 513 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,840 of emotion and an intellectual response in so many people. 514 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:55,200 And it inspired, I think, in the people that were fans of night, 515 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,840 were fans of Indiana basketball because of night. 516 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:04,280 It inspired this almost unceasing loyalty that you still 517 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,320 see today. I mean, you know, we're here on 518 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,360 a Wednesday night at 8:40. There's 235 people live watching 519 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,520 this. And and these, these 520 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,120 testimonials and little comments are coming in on YouTube and 521 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,240 they're pouring in. And I know there's thousands of 522 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,480 people who feel the same way who are expressing these things. 523 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,880 They're, you know, I've gotten 25 text messages from friends, 524 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,440 former students, people that that know that, you know, I'm 525 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,280 obviously his, you know, a night fan and an IU fan just wanting 526 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,600 to talk about it. And you know, the fact that 527 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,920 that's happening, you know, I think just kind of illustrates 528 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,720 how much night meant to so many people, how much of people's 529 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,600 lives during this period from the mid, early, mid 70s all the 530 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,960 way up to the present day got intertwined with night and and 531 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,200 the prism of night as as as basketball fed through it. 532 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,960 It's a really fascinating phenomenon, and it's something 533 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,480 that just not that many people really are able to inspire. 534 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,640 And Knight was one of those folks that were really just, you 535 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,160 know, capable of doing that almost effortlessly. 536 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,960 And it's really interesting to kind of watch all of this, this 537 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,520 interaction take place right now. 538 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,640 Well, you mentioned that dichotomy and this was a story. 539 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,760 I mean, it's almost become like a tall tale now. 540 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,840 I'm not even sure how much of it is real. 541 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,160 But I remember before you know, I was either in high school or 542 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,640 middle school. Like the story was at one of 543 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,920 like the the freshman assemblies for IU, Knight got on a kid for 544 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,560 being out of shape. And it's like that's all that 545 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,120 that kind of run with. But then like you later learn 546 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,480 that like he ended up pulling the kid aside talking to him and 547 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,120 then he let him work out with the team and the kid drop you 548 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,480 know £60.00. But it's like the these stories 549 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,720 like you said, like there's there's two sides to it. 550 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,080 There's kind of the public facing and then what Knight 551 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,720 actually did. But then it's also just becomes 552 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,640 like this Paul Bunyan type tale where it's just like this this 553 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,960 story, you know, the thing that. The other piece like we're kind 554 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,720 of all over the map here. The other piece you mentioned we 555 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,720 were in the class together and I want to get to some of those 556 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,960 stories, but and you know I we both had the privilege of 557 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,760 getting to cover Bob Knight in a in a way of student, student, 558 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,240 journalist. But the other piece of Knight 559 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,920 that is hard to capture that we were there for and kind of with 560 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,960 the tail end. But you know, he was very 561 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,600 imposing, like in that class he is a legit 6768. 562 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,880 At that time he was, you know. Not skinny. 563 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,840 He was you know 250 and I I remember in the class it's like, 564 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,920 my God, it's like he's he's just imposing and like I I do 565 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,240 remember he left the class and we would always go and like do 566 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,600 you know stuff on the court. He came back to say something 567 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,200 and I was in the back row and he just put his hand on my 568 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,400 shoulder. Just you using me as like a 569 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,480 steady. And it's like like holy shit 570 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,080 like that's Bob Knight's hand. It's like, but he's just. 571 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,840 And I remember thinking like, just don't, don't burp, don't 572 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,400 fart. Like, just don't do anything to 573 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,880 draw attention to yourself but you. 574 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,280 I think that sometimes gets lost to, you know when you when you 575 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:03,360 just realize like he was a when he went after somebody, it was 576 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,840 not scary, but it was like he definitely demanded attention. 577 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,080 But as you said, like just this dichotomy of like he he could 578 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,160 get angry, he could get mad, but he also. 579 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,080 I mean, in a way he almost missed his time because he was 580 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,360 so memeable and his quotes were just so funny and so on the 581 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,800 nose. And you know, he just had so 582 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,360 many one liners. You know, we're both Indiana 583 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:28,640 fans. We saw all the press 584 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,400 conferences. You know, there there really is 585 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:37,000 nobody out there like that today who has the kind of quips and 586 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,720 jokes and comebacks. And you know, he's like, I I 587 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,800 think, you know, just so many sides into the the interview 588 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,640 with Jeremy Shaf where he's, you know, just like a little jazz. 589 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,120 Dad's like, you know, you're not as good as your dad. 590 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:51,040 And it's like he's just like rant it, it's it, it it's so 591 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,560 much in one package, as you say. Yeah. 592 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,520 And I mean it's interesting in a lot of ways because ultimately I 593 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:04,800 think a lot about the way that it ended here at IU and I think 594 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:12,720 a lot about how it, it kind of forever changed the frame that 595 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,760 Bob Knight will get viewed through for some fans. 596 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,400 And it also essentially created a fracture, a fracture in the 597 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,240 way that the fan base worked for a long time. 598 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,200 It still is there to a large degree. 599 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,040 I mean it's it still hasn't healed and it was there before 600 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,400 Knight got fired. You know, I mean, there were, I 601 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,880 remember on the early days of the message boards, you know, 602 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,360 those who were on like the independent Indiana Basketball 603 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,520 Forum or the very early stagesofpeaks.com. 604 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,120 You know, there were, there were the moles and the lemmings and 605 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,040 the moles were the the folks that didn't like Knight, and the 606 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,880 lemmings were the people that loved Knight. 607 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,320 And, you know, and it was fat. That was even happening then. 608 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:56,800 That was 19961997. And you know it's it's 609 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,200 interesting as someone who certainly felt like there was 610 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,000 faults on both sides in terms of the Knight IU relationship. 611 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:13,239 It just is a shame that it created such a rift between 612 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,760 people between groups in the fan base, between Knight and the 613 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,960 university. And you know, Knight, as you 614 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,080 mentioned, he was in a tremendously clever guy. 615 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,520 He he was very good at getting the last word in, even if it 616 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,760 left a bad taste in your mouth. And I think, you know, for a lot 617 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,800 of people they became a culture to looking at Night as an enemy 618 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,560 of IU because he certainly didn't have anything nice to say 619 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:44,120 about IU for the longest time. And the feeling was kind of 620 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,600 mutual there for about six or seven years, which a lot of 621 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,280 times gets left out of the equation. 622 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,199 You know, I think IU did a lot to try to bring Night back into 623 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,320 the fold, starting with 2010, 2011. 624 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,240 And Night wasn't ready. And you know, when he finally 625 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:05,640 was ready, it was it was late, you know, fortunately wasn't too 626 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,720 late. But it was. 627 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,840 It was one of those things where you would have loved to have had 628 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,000 him around as a fully embraced elder statesman for a lot longer 629 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,720 within the program. Yeah, he said. 630 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:19,840 What Katie has at Purdue, it's like there's a part of me. 631 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,680 It's like that. It sucks we didn't get that, 632 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,200 yeah. But, you know, I mean, I'd also, 633 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,120 I think given Knight's personality and given the 634 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,800 weight, it just wasn't in the cards. 635 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:35,080 And, you know, look, I think that I, I love the fact that 636 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,680 somehow, you know, and I think Mike Woodson deserves a huge 637 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,000 amount of credit for this. And I think that Scott Dolson 638 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,640 deserves a huge amount of credit for this. 639 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,320 And I think Fred Glass, you know, made a lot of of efforts 640 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,840 to try to make things happen as well. 641 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,280 I mean it for all of all of this to come together in the way that 642 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,600 it did and at least allow Knight to get publicly recognized at an 643 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,120 IU game the way that it happened with his former players at his 644 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,880 side. The number of people that were 645 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,440 at that game who still talk about how emotional of a moment 646 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,800 that was. Matt Cohen, former student 647 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,160 journalist who's covering Auburn right now, talked about like 648 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,760 that. That feeling in that arena was 649 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:22,720 hard to even find an analogue for within the history of of IU 650 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,120 and and certainly within what we normally see in in college 651 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,320 basketball. And I'm glad that moment 652 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,160 happened. I remember, yeah, there was the 653 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:35,080 there was a A Pod live, the live podcast at the Bluebird back in 654 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,200 2019. That was the first time I I met 655 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,520 night since I was in class with you. 656 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,040 And I remember I sat with him in the green room for a while and 657 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:47,280 we, you know, chatted a little bit. 658 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,560 And that was, that was really a special moment for me. 659 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,360 And it was just fascinating, even at that age. 660 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,080 The gravity, as difficult as it was for him to move at that 661 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,640 point, the gravity with which you felt around Bob Knight, it 662 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,760 was just kind of almost a supernatural force. 663 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,320 And that's that's what's been on my mind here the most recently, 664 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,320 is that as deteriorating as his health had been over the course 665 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:18,280 of the last few years, I'm glad that moment at least happened. 666 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,600 And as much for everybody else around Knight As for Knight 667 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,360 himself that that occurred. And I'm really fascinated to 668 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:32,680 see, you know, how people's remembrances are as they move 669 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:33,840 forward here over the next couple days. 670 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,480 We're already starting to see some pop up. 671 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,920 I mean the Dan Wetzel piece is actually really well done. 672 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,280 I haven't had a chance to read a whole lot of other ones, but I 673 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,440 would really encourage, especially our younger audience, 674 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,240 talk to the people who were around when night was there, go 675 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:50,640 back and watch some of those games that are up on the YouTube 676 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,680 channel. You're never going to get the 677 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,840 full, you know, experience of what it was like during that 678 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,240 period. But I'm glad that, you know, 679 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,840 there's some connection still back to that, that are that 680 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,840 people can can look at and talk with people about. 681 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,800 And it's really, as you mentioned, it's it's so 682 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,240 multifaceted. It's it's the humor and the 683 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,960 cynicism and the sarcasm and the funny comments as much as it is 684 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:19,680 the tremendous XS and OS the tremendous amount of of coaches 685 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,720 across the the spectrum that respected the man and that 686 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,400 studied from the man. And you know and it was you know 687 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,880 we were doing a segment on IU women's basketball you know the 688 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,200 the first women's full time women's basketball coach Bee 689 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,200 Gorton who took her team to the final Four like she people would 690 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,440 think oh night you know misogynist wouldn't ever have 691 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,320 women in in his in his practice. She was at his practices all the 692 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,040 time, learning from him. Pat Summit would come and watch 693 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,360 practices all the time. He had a tremendous respect for 694 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,480 people that he respected in their professions, for coaches, 695 00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,800 you know, and even for media. I mean, as much as people talk 696 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,600 about how the media did night dirty, some did. 697 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,760 You know, certainly there were a lot of reporters who and 698 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,400 columnists who either didn't like Knight, and I'm not saying 699 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,000 they were wrong and not liking Knight, but but knew that Knight 700 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,400 was a reliable pinata for them to whack on because it's easy to 701 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,080 punch up with a lot of these things. 702 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,680 And but Knight had great friends in the media. 703 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,040 You know, he had, he had, you know, friendships with a lot of 704 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,760 the top writers. He had friendships with with 705 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,520 people who were top notch broadcasters and it's just kind 706 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,000 of interesting you know even in that population you know and a 707 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,880 lot of times you get journalists who you know they they'll tend 708 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,280 to they all you know they all concentrate on kind of similar 709 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,760 things. You see similar themes. 710 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,600 There were huge disagreements among those people about how 711 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360 they felt about Bob Knight and how they interacted with him. 712 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,240 But the one thing that you'll notice is the people that 713 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,200 generally like spent time with Knight and and worked with him 714 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:03,400 tended to be fans of his after a while and. 715 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,840 It's it's really interesting kind of thinking about that. 716 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,080 It's like the more exposure you had to the guy, you got more of 717 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,320 his personality that you supposedly hated, not less, and 718 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,160 that actually made you like the guy more. 719 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,840 And a lot of it was just how original he was in the way that 720 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,880 he conducted himself. And you mentioned his connection 721 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,040 with other IT. It was outside of that. 722 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,240 Like he he appreciated. As I view it, he appreciated 723 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:30,880 other people who had greatness. But you look at he was great 724 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,160 friends with Tony Larussa, like I'll never during our class was 725 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,520 when it was 98, 'cause he was talking about the McGuire Sosa 726 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,360 home run battle. And he was talking about how he 727 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,080 was talking to Larussa the night before, like about McGuire 728 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,960 hitting. And he was friends like Dewayne 729 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:50,120 Lucas, Bill Parcells, you know, he cast he, he had connections 730 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,800 in all sports and he was kind of, but it's like I think he 731 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,120 just viewed that other greatness. 732 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,000 You mentioned that him coming back to Assembly Hall. 733 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,680 Which was huge. I'm also, I'm very happy with 734 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,400 the fact that, you know, we talk about what Woodson has done as a 735 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,120 former player, being coach, kind of embracing the past, bringing 736 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,040 those players back. And I'm if this had to happen, 737 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,000 it feels right that it happens with Woodson at the helm that 738 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,440 had it been like Crean or Archie not knocking them. 739 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,120 It's just it feels like. If there has to be an end point 740 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,360 to the Bob Knight story, it does feel right that it happens while 741 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,960 Woodson's at the helm and you know, 'cause this is going to be 742 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,920 an emotional couple of weeks, months, like, you know, under 743 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,320 the wrong hand. Again, how the team deals with 744 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,600 this as a whole, it it's not anything that matters when 745 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,280 you're talking about life or death, but it just, it does feel 746 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,800 it, it feels right that that Woodson is at the helm of this 747 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,640 and is going to shepherd the IU basketball team dealing with 748 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,080 this. Yeah well and you know look a 749 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,920 couple of things that people have brought up that I think are 750 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,880 worth mentioning. I mean the he created so many 751 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,280 iconic moments for IU fans. I mean someone mentioned the 752 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:09,320 the, the, the Jack the Purdue fan thing on the coaches show 753 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,240 which you know at a time when you know the IU Purdue rivalry 754 00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:15,280 is different than the IU Kentucky rivalry. 755 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,720 It's it's you know people who are here know what I'm talking 756 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,000 about. But to at the height of that 757 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,920 rivalry to bring out a a a donkey with a Purdue hat on on a 758 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,360 on a on a coach's show. I mean the the just who would 759 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,600 have thought to do that but that was a Bob Knight thing. 760 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,240 You know the the you know the fact that he was so present like 761 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:41,280 the number of commercials that are out there from central IN I 762 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,000 I almost posted one on the Twitter feed. 763 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,160 It's him like selling Buicks, you know, he's advertising for 764 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,000 like Central IN Buick Dealers, and he's throwing in a signed 765 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,520 basketball. If you buy like a new Lesabre 766 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,840 from Dave Skillman or whatever dude his. 767 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,040 His the golfing stuff, like just search Bodite Golf like it's 768 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,600 like some of those golf shows are just like wow. 769 00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:05,240 And and you know, I think what what's interesting about him is 770 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:10,800 he was he was very conscious that what he said and did was 771 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,960 funny. And it's like Pat Knight said in 772 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,440 that piece. It's like, you know, there was 773 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,000 there was a plan with almost everything he did, whether it 774 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,320 was getting you know, like you know, maybe it came back to 775 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,720 haunt him with Ted Valentine. But it's like the whole whip 776 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,840 thing that was to get the pressure off the the team and 777 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,560 get it on to him. Like let's just get all the 778 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,240 pressure on To me, you know, a lot of the the rest stuff was 779 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:35,360 that like that just make me the attention so the players can go 780 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,320 play. You know that it really there 781 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,240 was always a method to the madness. 782 00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:42,200 He wasn't just doing things to do things, Yeah. 783 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:47,600 And you know that it's it's, it's what made Knight such a 784 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,560 compelling figure, not just to fans, but also to writers and 785 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,800 and journalists. And you know, someone mentioned 786 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,400 the Frank Deford piece The Rabbit Hunter, which which 787 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,840 really is a remarkable piece of sports journalism. 788 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,160 But even the Dick Schat piece that I posted earlier on the on 789 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,200 the Crimson cast What? You mentioned Season on the 790 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:05,920 Brink. I mean, that was just one of the 791 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,440 one of the first books of its kind. 792 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,920 I mean, you know, you had Friday Night Lights and you have Season 793 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,280 on the Brink, and they're kind of two of a similar piece. 794 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,600 It's like here is an unflinching inside look at you know in in 795 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,960 Friday Night Lights a high school town in in you know Texas 796 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,640 and what football means both both the good and the ugly and 797 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,720 season on the brink you know was an accident It was one of those 798 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,520 things where night just I think as the second thought was like 799 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,240 yeah sure Mike Schefsky says this writers in OK dude I'm 800 00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,520 going to let him watch all of our practices and what he's 801 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,160 going to write something for the Sunday like you know you know 802 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,200 variety section. No he he writes this whole thing 803 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,000 about night and if the whole thing's about night it's not 804 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,000 about the team. I mean the team gets mentioned, 805 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,160 but it's a personality profile of someone that is just 806 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,280 incredibly complex. And you know you you would, you 807 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,760 would find yourself constantly trying to evaluate what Knight 808 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,240 was doing and he would always seem to be like a step or two 809 00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:09,520 ahead. And I think to some degree, you 810 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,680 know, this is where you know the his role within Indiana 811 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,520 University becomes a fascinating 1 because he was such a larger 812 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,960 than life figure. And I think he certainly leaned 813 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,600 on that to a large degree and you know having worked in 814 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,280 academia for a long time that that engenders a lot of of anger 815 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,000 and jealousy. And and look Knight was not a 816 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,440 was certainly not a perfect Co worker, was certainly not a 817 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,040 perfect you know citizen of the university. 818 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,960 But he would offset but he would offset that by doing all of 819 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,640 these tremendous things. And this is, this is again, 820 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,520 where it's just such a complicated legacy, but it is 821 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:53,440 such a dominant legacy in terms of like this is someone who, if 822 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,720 you didn't like him, he gave you plenty of reasons not to like 823 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:58,760 him. If you loved him, he gave you 824 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,160 plenty of reasons to love him. And he didn't particularly seem 825 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,040 to care one way or another. It wasn't. 826 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,840 I never got a sense, you know, the the clever asides aside, the 827 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,720 clever one liners, you never got the sense night would do things 828 00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:16,600 specifically because he was trying to be popular. 829 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:23,200 You know there's a there's a period in the 198485 season 830 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:28,480 where IU goes to Illinois and they they bench all the starters 831 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,440 and you know it's an important game. 832 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,000 Indiana's struggling. He just benches all the 833 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,200 starters, doesn't play them, plays all freshman and ove BLOB 834 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,040 at center and they lose the game and people freak out and night 835 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,800 goes on his coaches show the next day and basically is like, 836 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,160 you know what? Leave the coaching to me. 837 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,480 I I know what I'm doing. It's where, you know, people 838 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,600 forget like the the, you know, the bury me upside down on my 839 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,960 critics and kicks my ass. That was a direct response to 840 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,720 benching all of his starters in the second-half of the game at 841 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:05,840 Minnesota in that 1994 season and Indiana lost by 5106 to 56. 842 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,960 It was the IT was Knight's largest loss at IU and I can 843 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,280 distinctly remember as a 1314 year old, whatever. 844 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,480 However, all I was at the time you know on the nightly news on 845 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,360 you know Channel 6 Ed Source is like, is night, is night done? 846 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,280 Should night be fired like stuff like that. 847 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,240 And then they turn around they win games down the stretch and I 848 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,880 think finished second in the conference that year and that 849 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,480 was what that was. In response to you know he would 850 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,880 he would create things that would become cultural icons 851 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,400 almost by accident. Ivan Renko is a great example 852 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,040 for those who don't know the story, like Night in 199293, 853 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,240 they had a a team that was at or near the top of the poles for 854 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:47,840 most of the season. So what does night do? 855 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,280 In late January I think it was or mid January he gets asked a 856 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,680 question either on his coaches show or in a press conference. 857 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,400 I think it was his coaches show And he says well you know 858 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,160 instead of talking about the team, I want to talk about this 859 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,040 kid that we're recruiting out of Yugoslavia. 860 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,280 You know, he's a six, eight kid named Ivan Renko and you know he 861 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,240 can do kind of anything with the basketball. 862 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,360 He could shoot, he can dribble, he can drive This kids going to 863 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,320 be maybe one of the best basketball players in college 864 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:16,880 basketball when we get him in her next year. 865 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:23,120 Now there was no Ivan Renko, but for literally like a month all 866 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,480 you heard about was Ivan Renko. I remember, you know, there were 867 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,080 TV reports that people had seen like Ivan Renko get on a plane 868 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,600 and and you know, fly to New York. 869 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,160 A recruiting service claimed that they had scouted Ivan Renko 870 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,880 and they they rated him like a high four-star prospect or 871 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,440 something like that. Like there was no Ivan Renko. 872 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,280 But you know, Knight did that to take pressure off of his team 873 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,640 and it worked. It was fascinating to watch the 874 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,360 entire media world and the and fandom for IU kind of wrap 875 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,800 around what Knight would do or say when he was at the height of 876 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,600 his powers at Indiana. It's something I'll never 877 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,880 forget. Well and and that's you you 878 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,160 mentioned like that's something you just you you don't see but 879 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,200 it's like that Knight knew the power he had and it's partially 880 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:14,320 because he had so much success early but he used it unlike. 881 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,360 Very few coaches I've ever seen. Like, it's somebody who, you 882 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,280 know, it's like that, you know, the best analogy I can think of 883 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,000 is like if you're, you know, valedictorian and you're three 884 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,960 months before you're going to graduate high school and it's 885 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:28,280 like, you know, you're going to get all A's. 886 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,080 It's like you're kind of, you're, you know, you're good, 887 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,240 but you can kind of coast. And he had that. 888 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,400 Like everything you're mentioning is kind of just a guy 889 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,600 who's like, yeah, I could do this and say stuff and you see, 890 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,680 you even see it today. It's like, you know. 891 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,200 You know after a couple titles Roy Williams still would you 892 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,840 know kind of get defensive on the meat. 893 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,280 He's like he's still doing the coaching thing. 894 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,040 Like I think the only person who may have that is like Belichick. 895 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,680 But Belichick's not funny. But Belichick is just like on to 896 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,200 on. You know he he knows he doesn't 897 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:55,800 have to answer any questions. You know on to Cleveland who 898 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,200 cares. But he's not funny. 899 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,080 You know Knight had the the funny and and doing that. 900 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,200 But it was definitely a. I know I'm not going to get 901 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,120 fired. Like I know I'm probably the 902 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,840 smartest guy out here. So it's like whatever you 903 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,120 mentioned the I you. I've always wondered this 904 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,720 because you and I've talked about this many, many times that 905 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:16,000 you know. He, he was kind of playing with 906 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,800 LSU like he kind of, you know, used his power to get more 907 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,280 leverage against IU and kind of said I was going to leave or go 908 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,200 to a different school and then use that to get more leverage. 909 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:27,640 That. I've always wondered if like 910 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,880 this there's a part of where it's like, you know, the the dog 911 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,000 that catches the car. Like, you know, by the 90s he 912 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,480 had almost gotten so much power at IU because he had the 913 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,040 leverage that it ended up. You know, causing him some 914 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,280 issues of like having just too much overall power. 915 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,960 But again, it's like this is with night, you know, like when 916 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,760 when I would talk to to other fans, you know, over the years 917 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,960 and it's like why couldn't he just, you know, not get mad or 918 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,640 not throw the chair? By the way, 50 minutes in we 919 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:55,600 haven't even mentioned the chair. 920 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,600 You know, why can't he not be mad and not throw the chair? 921 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,800 My my thing was always like. You don't get it's all together 922 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,480 like you you take that away and I just don't think night doesn't 923 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,480 stand. You know it's the four legs of a 924 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,400 chair that hold it together. You can't just say hey be less 925 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,960 angry or don't do the antics. Because like we said it wasn't 926 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,040 like that was just I'm screwing off and now I'm going to coach 927 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,320 like it was all part of that Stew. 928 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,560 But I I've often wondered that that like. 929 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,200 Every time he had the leverage, he pushed IU to get more to the 930 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,400 point that I mean you you. When we went to school, it's 931 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:33,120 like IU had a had an athletic department and had basketball, 932 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,920 like basketball had its own colors, had its own logo, like 933 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,160 basketball was a separate entity apart from athletics. 934 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,520 And I do wonder if that that didn't help him in the end. 935 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,680 Yeah, I mean, I think that I have. 936 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,600 There's a much longer show to be done on that and it's an 937 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,160 interesting question. It really is because I think I 938 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,600 do think Knight and and this Bears out. 939 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,960 If you read season on the Brink, it like Knight wins that title 940 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,200 in 81 and he kind of gets bored and he kind of drifts off and 941 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,280 he's like, I'm going to let the assistants do the recruiting. 942 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,120 And a lot of the season on the brink is him getting mad at the 943 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,320 fact that they don't have in his mind the players that they need 944 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,160 to compete and then he recommits himself. 945 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,560 And they they, you know, they win a national title in 87. 946 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,760 It's a wild thought to think like he and he kind of does 947 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,440 sorry. It's like he kind of takes like, 948 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,920 you know, two years off, so to speak, and just kind of lets it 949 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,400 coast. It doesn't work. 950 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,280 But then it's like he just turns it on. 951 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,760 He's like, all right, like the the season The Brink was 85, 952 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,600 they won the title in 87. It's like he starts doing Jukos 953 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:36,960 like, you know, he smarts at Jukos. 954 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,320 It's like he just taps into new stuff and like boom, turns it on 955 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,600 and then like, you know the Jay Edwards didn't quite work out. 956 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,800 But it's like he kind of then he's like figures out 92. 957 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,520 And then that's again the legacy, a totally different pod. 958 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,640 It's like, it felt like he was coasting when we were there, but 959 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,600 it's like I felt like he was like I'm going to turn it on one 960 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,440 last time and that was that team. 961 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,800 He coalesced in O2, but that's that's again, the amazing part 962 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,320 of night is like coaches can coast, but then when they try 963 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,360 and turn it on, it's like suddenly, you know, they don't 964 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,400 have the same connections, but it's just like he, he in 18 965 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,000 months, he has a national championship caliber team. 966 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:11,520 Sorry. No, it's it's right. 967 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,280 And that's it's kind of the big question mark because it's 968 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,920 Knight was interested in coaching his way, and there were 969 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,160 a lot of periods during his career where he could have 970 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,160 gotten better players, You know, better, more athletic players, 971 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,880 dudes, dudes. Yes, as as chronic Hoosier and I 972 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,320 talked about, I mean, there were a lot of moments like that. 973 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,200 But Knight was very interested in coaching players that he 974 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,480 wanted to coach. And there's a if you read all 975 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,080 the stuff on Knight, which I have, there was a real streak in 976 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,520 him that was like, I want to do things my way because his way 977 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,840 had been proven to be so successful that what didn't mean 978 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,040 that he wasn't willing to change what his way was, but once he 979 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,120 changed what his way was, that became the new his way. 980 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,720 And there was a rigidity to that, that, you know, certainly 981 00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:01,200 I think Knight could have won more national titles. 982 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,560 But as as that Parish thing pointed out, like Knight will 983 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,200 always be held, I think by basketball people in much higher 984 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,600 regard than John Wooden. Because Knight won games without 985 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:20,000 having a a very demonstrable, you know, bag bag man pulling in 986 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,120 players. Knight will always be held in 987 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,080 higher regard than Dean Smith. Because even though Dean Smith 988 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,400 was a very fine coach Dean Smith he operated an NBA factory with 989 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,640 all of the players that came and went with with North Carolina. 990 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,840 And you know you taught you look at Knight and what he did at IU 991 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,760 and he he won all those games and all those championships with 992 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,000 one NBA All Star like multi time All Star and I or Hall of Famer 993 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,680 and Isaiah Thomas you know and he had Grammy look I mean Randy 994 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,400 Whitman was an excellent NBA player. 995 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,920 Mike Woodson was a was an excellent NBA. 996 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,520 You know, Ken Benson had a pretty long career, but the 997 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,760 caliber of player that Knight wanted to coach was so 998 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,360 different. And I think that IU fans 999 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,440 identify with that as much as anything else. 1000 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,120 You know, because Indiana is a state. 1001 00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,200 It's it's it's in the middle of nowhere. 1002 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,000 It's it's an agrarian factory combo state. 1003 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,080 It's a state that doesn't have a lot of the advantages of being 1004 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,400 on one of the coasts. And you know, IU people and 1005 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,560 Indiana people and especially people that have nothing to do 1006 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,520 with Indiana University. I think this is the the 1007 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,080 population that gets forgotten about. 1008 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:30,560 The people who were did not go to college, but IU was their, 1009 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,240 that was their team and they followed that team and they took 1010 00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:39,920 a special pride in the ethic that IU Under Knight carried, 1011 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,720 which was we are going to take a group of players who aren't the 1012 00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:47,680 most talented, who aren't the most physically gifted, who may 1013 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,640 be limited in certain aspects of their game and we're still going 1014 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,680 to win at least 7075% of our games. 1015 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,360 We're going to win a a Big Ten title. 1016 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:56,960 We're going to compete for national titles. 1017 00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,520 I mean, you know, one of one of the, the kind of the, the 1018 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,920 favorite under the radar players for IU fans from this era was a 1019 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,760 guy in Brian Sloan who never shot the ball. 1020 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,000 His whole idea, the whole purpose he's out there is 1021 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,840 screening for people became what like Dick Vitale's watchword, 1022 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,240 you know, it was like Sloan 45. I mean that was the fact that 1023 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:19,720 Knight was able to establish that kind of a mentality and 1024 00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:25,880 that kind of of an ethic and and the the emotional response among 1025 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,080 fans for those sides of things. It just complete it perfectly 1026 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,760 fit Indiana, the state of Indiana in a way that it 1027 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,640 probably wouldn't have fit at another school or another state. 1028 00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,920 I mean it it would have been hard to have seen him do this at 1029 00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,800 you know like a Texas or a Florida or his or Wisconsin 1030 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,480 where he you know he actually accepted the the job back in in 1031 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,720 1968 and then backed out of it. I mean, it's it is really 1032 00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:57,080 interesting, like it was such a perfect marriage for almost 30 1033 00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,080 years, and not not necessarily in terms of the university, 1034 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,800 because certainly things have fallen apart by the end there. 1035 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,000 But it was such a perfect marriage between coach and 1036 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,880 fanbase. And again, not everybody, but 1037 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,800 the vast majority of the fanbase, it was, I don't think 1038 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,200 you could have picked a better coach, a coach that was more 1039 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,400 representative of how people wanted to root for a team then 1040 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,120 you could have with Knight in Indiana and even in the lean 1041 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,800 years, you felt like Knight was just one player away or one 1042 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,160 result away from getting things turned around and that that's 1043 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:31,520 it. That's probably never going to 1044 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,920 get replicated ever again with IU. 1045 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,520 It's really hard to envision and I guess you know that I don't 1046 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,400 want to go forever here. We're going to wrap up in a 1047 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,320 couple of minutes, but I'll I'll probably take that away from it 1048 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,880 More than anything else is like, here's the the fact that I, you 1049 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:50,920 know, you and me as as people growing up, as fans, as as 1050 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:55,160 students, as people who were in his class, got a chance to be a 1051 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,840 part of that for a lot of our, our early years. 1052 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,480 I'll always treasure that. I mean, one of the reasons I go 1053 00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,040 back and digitize all the old tapes of those games and try to 1054 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,480 put them on YouTube, I I want to try to preserve that in some 1055 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,920 way. And and you know, there was a 1056 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,480 time when Indiana University basketball wasn't just special. 1057 00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,160 It really was the epicenter of college basketball and night was 1058 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,640 the reason why. I don't know if you could have 1059 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,320 done it at another place in quite the same way. 1060 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,880 Don Fisher once right after Knight was fired was like these 1061 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,120 two things did a lot for each other and it's true. 1062 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,760 But I I can see we can certainly say in the 15 years prior to 1063 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,960 night getting to IU and certainly for most of the 15 to 1064 00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,600 20 years since he left IU is, you know, it's it's been a 1065 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:43,000 struggle for IU and it was certainly a struggle for Knight 1066 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:44,760 two. You know, Knight went to Texas 1067 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,720 Tech certainly didn't have the same level of success because 1068 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,640 that's a tough place to win. And I and you know, Knights 1069 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:56,200 magic was kind of inextricably linked to what he was able to do 1070 00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:00,200 here at IU. And I just think that everybody 1071 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,920 tonight, if you think about anything with this, think about 1072 00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,160 how special that was, if you were a part of it. 1073 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,720 And if you're if you're further down the line, if that legacy 1074 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:14,560 precedes you it's it helped to build what Indiana basketball 1075 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,720 still is today what it what it could be again. 1076 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,560 And I really do think that that's that's an important thing 1077 00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,560 and I think that every fan base that's had such an iconic figure 1078 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,120 in its midst for as long as as night was here. 1079 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,000 I think that's something you can take with you and and keep as 1080 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,600 part of the way that you think about that program, think about 1081 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,160 your relationship to the program and that's certainly what I'll 1082 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,400 be thinking about tonight. I I'm not sure like that was 1083 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,200 great that was all I mean that was all very well said. 1084 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,440 I'm not sure I I echo all of that and and agree. 1085 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:52,560 I mean, I I feel lucky to have grown up in Bloomington during 1086 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:57,680 that era, you know during that run of 87 to 93 when when it it 1087 00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,080 wasn't the the 70s and the undefeated seasons. 1088 01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:01,600 But it's like it was still close enough. 1089 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:07,840 You heard that and it yeah, I, I, I echo everything you said. 1090 01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,840 And it's it's a sad it. It does hit you. 1091 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:15,120 It kind of hits your own mortality because it's like that 1092 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:16,840 was the coach growing up and there's family. 1093 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,480 It's just, it is so interwoven with with me growing up and I 1094 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,240 think everyone who's on this pod and listening and just a fan of 1095 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,520 IU, most people have a night story or a night interaction. 1096 01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,640 And you know, when I tell people, I was, I was in his 1097 01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,560 class, I was like, I got to know some stories. 1098 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,440 And it's like I I have stories like, I have tons of stories, 1099 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,400 like. And I think that's that's The 1100 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,200 thing is, you know you can bump into famous people or you. 1101 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,120 It's like I've never met anybody who had an interaction with 1102 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,320 Knight that doesn't have a story where it's like, Oh yeah, I got 1103 01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,280 my story, I got your. And it's whether it's a funny or 1104 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,200 bad, like there's a story to go with it. 1105 01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,480 You know, I also just it's, you know, apropos of nothing else. 1106 01:00:54,480 --> 01:01:00,960 But I I do wonder how you know how the university is going to 1107 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,360 honor him. You know it's it's always been 1108 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,240 the joke you know Dick Vitale never starts to say you know 1109 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:06,920 they got to name the court after Bob Knights like all right the 1110 01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,480 court is named like all IU fans know that's branch for Kraken is 1111 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:14,320 also very important So if Kraken did something as well. 1112 01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,080 But I do you know I do wonder you know what what else can you 1113 01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,120 name out there or or do you know Knights in the the the IU Hall 1114 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,040 of Fame doesn't need to be answered today. 1115 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,520 But I just I that's the other thing I think of is like you 1116 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:31,680 know so that that he you know if you were going to take 1117 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,640 Mccracken's name off the court and move him somewhere else. 1118 01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,160 It would be fitting to put night there and be fitting to name 1119 01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,760 Assembly hall after night. It would be fitting to name the 1120 01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:40,720 athletic. I mean it. 1121 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,880 I go, I go back to, it's I go back to that initial thought of 1122 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,360 he wasn't just Indiana University, somebody from 1123 01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,400 Indiana. He was Indiana. 1124 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,520 And you know, when I grew up, the Colts were bad. 1125 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,800 The Colts weren't there. The Pacers were, as you said, 1126 01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,920 kind of an afterthought. They were there, but they just 1127 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:03,360 weren't really that, that, that thought of, you know, up until 1128 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,960 91 or 92, when the Colts started to have a little bit of success 1129 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,800 in, the Pacers had Reggie Miller, like that entire run. 1130 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,200 The state was Notre Dame or Indiana, and for basketball it 1131 01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,200 was Indiana and it was Bob Knight. 1132 01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,720 And he was when I would travel, it would be, oh, Bob Knight. 1133 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,040 Like he throws a chair and it's like, I'd hear that we went to 1134 01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:23,800 France and I heard that. It's like that's. 1135 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:29,040 That was the state of Indiana. So you know and it's it's a it's 1136 01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,320 just it's a sad night for everyone it's conflicted. 1137 01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:33,040 But in the end I I think you're right. 1138 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,720 It's like it was special that we we had that and we had it at IU. 1139 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,000 No. And look I mean all that's true 1140 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,840 and I'm it's gonna take me a a while still to process what I'm 1141 01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,760 feeling. But you know, I'll say this 1142 01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,960 night and IU. Breaking up the way that they 1143 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,120 did was like, you know, watching your parents get divorced and 1144 01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,560 then take shots at each other for, you know, 10 years. 1145 01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,720 And so I'm just glad that, you know, there's still people who 1146 01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,480 are going to point out things that they didn't like about 1147 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,000 night, things they didn't like about the way night interacted 1148 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,720 with IU. And I get all that and and I'm 1149 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:12,080 not saying those people are wrong. 1150 01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:16,160 I'm just saying for the people that really loved night and love 1151 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,240 Indiana. I'm glad that we don't have to 1152 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,840 have that as the backdrop. I'm glad that at least the 1153 01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:27,240 reconciliation of these two institutions were the backdrop. 1154 01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:31,560 And so look, I appreciate everybody joining us tonight. 1155 01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:36,400 We didn't want to go too long on this, but certainly was nice to 1156 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,640 be able to talk about some memories and and watch 1157 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,760 everybody's comments coming in and and hear your memories as 1158 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,680 well. We we appreciate it and we 1159 01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,600 certainly appreciate Coach Knight our our sympathies with 1160 01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:55,480 as we mentioned his his wife Karen and his sons Tim and Pat 1161 01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,040 and his his grandchildren and all of his extended family. 1162 01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,680 So Bob Knight dead at the age of 83. 1163 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,160 Well, we'll certainly have more coverage with this on the back 1164 01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,600 home network moving forward, but we really appreciate you folks 1165 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,080 taking the time to join us tonight. 1166 01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:16,840 Scott, thank you for hopping on on short notice and we will chat 1167 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,360 about this again in the future. We hope you folks have a great 1168 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,640 rest of the evening. Go watch the remainder of the 1169 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:26,120 post game podcast that do the work is doing right now on the 1170 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,800 women's game as they had a a big win tonight in their exhibition 1171 01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:32,440 game and both the women's team and the men's team we've learned 1172 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,120 are going to be wearing commemorative patches honoring. 1173 01:04:41,130 --> 01:04:43,330 Bob Knight on the jerseys throughout the course of the 1174 01:04:43,330 --> 01:04:45,890 season. So happy to see that. 1175 01:04:45,890 --> 01:04:48,850 Anyway, thanks everybody again for Scott. 1176 01:04:48,850 --> 01:04:52,370 I'm Galen on behalf of Crimson Cast and the Back Home Network. 1177 01:04:52,370 --> 01:04:53,730 We'll catch you folks on the flip side. 1178 01:04:53,810 --> 01:04:57,250 That's all everybody. Well done man.