1 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,840 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:20,480 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cask Ale 3 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,920 and Clavio joining you. I'm going to bring Scott on here 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,440 in just a minute. We recorded this podcast on 5 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,640 Friday around noon as we were reacting to the news from the 6 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,960 previous night of the decommitment of Liam Mcneely 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,440 from the IU basketball program and kind of where that leaves 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,320 everything. It's obviously been a very 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:48,200 strange last week, really last month for IU men's basketball as 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,920 unfortunately things are not going well and we talk a lot 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,760 about that on this upcoming podcast. 12 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,640 We talk about kind of the overall set up of things with 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,240 the basketball program. We talked about the some of the 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,319 weird messaging that we've heard and I think just overall trying 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,800 to get a a bead on how all of this reconciles with where the 16 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,960 fan base is at right now. And and you know we didn't dive 17 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:15,360 a whole lot into some of the things that ended up coming up 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,080 later on on Friday. There was a lot of media that 19 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:23,160 came out on Friday that if you're an avid consumer of IU 20 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,120 men's basketball materials, you may want to go check out. 21 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,120 There was an interesting segment of a podcast from I think it was 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,520 the The Sleepers podcast which I'd recommend checking out. 23 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:41,800 There was a good segment with Rob Doster on field of 68 that's 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,760 worth checking out. There was a nice about 8 minute 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:49,280 video from Sam Vicini which delved into some things and and 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,520 left some things unsaid. But there were, there were some 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,040 clear implications. I think all these are worth 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,000 checking out if you're an IU fan right now. 29 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,720 And there's others. I mean the podcast on the Brink 30 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,920 with Zach Osterman's worth listening to. 31 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,120 There's just a lot to consume and and to think about there's a 32 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,480 lot of different perspectives. We tried to capture some of that 33 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,199 on this show that we're about to unveil. 34 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,880 And you know, before we get into the bulk of this first, well, 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,040 first of all I want to get the business out of the way. 36 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,080 But I've got a couple of other quick things to add to the 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,960 beginning of the conversation before we dive in to the bulk of 38 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,840 the conversation. First of all, of course you need 39 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,920 to go check out home Field apparel, proud sponsor of the 40 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:31,640 back home network and the place to go for the finest in college 41 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:33,800 fashions. And they have significantly 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:38,640 added to the array of college fashions available as they have 43 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:41,600 unleashed Basketball tea Saturday. 44 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,000 So today they've got all of these new basketball T-shirts 45 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,080 available. There's some stuff that you may 46 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,800 not want to see as an IU fan, like there's a there's a Purdue 47 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,760 2024 Big 10 Champs item there. There's there's some Kansas 48 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,640 stuff, but there's some really cool other things. 49 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:02,000 I mean there's everything from new Creighton shirt. 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,480 There's there's I think some Canisius stuff, if I, if I saw 51 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,920 that correctly, just a whole array of of different types of 52 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,000 of T-shirts from across the college basketball landscape, 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,600 many of which are not going to impact whatever your existing 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,160 fandom happens to be. And you know it allows you to 55 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,800 buy. Like for instance there's a 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,480 there's a bunch of women's basketball T-shirts which some 57 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,160 of you might be very interested in everything from there's a 58 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,680 Texas 1986 national championship shirt. 59 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,880 There's there's a really nice Gonzaga one that's worth 60 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,040 checking out. 14 new T-shirt designs overall including a 61 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,360 sister Jean Loyola shirt. There's if you're if you're one 62 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,520 of those people that likes Butler, there's a Butler 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,040 20/10/2011 shirt, there's some Colorado basketball shirts. 64 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,080 There's a great dunking Husky Washington long sleeve shirt. 65 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,440 So anyway my point is go check out these selections. 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,120 Some awesome stuff across the board that you should go see and 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,000 and purchase and you can use the code HOME 23 get 15% off your 68 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,560 first order so go out check on the options at home field 69 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,600 apparel and be sure to continue to partake in their entire month 70 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,760 as they are just dropping amazing things left and right. 71 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,480 We we continue to see third month mania marching on. 72 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,680 We've got fleece day coming up soon we've got jerseys more 73 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,840 shooting shirts, some other stuff coming out here soon. 74 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,360 So all kinds of fun things go check that out. 75 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Use the code Home 23 get 15% off your first order. 76 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,960 Also just a reminder, we're on sub stack 77 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:43,120 crimsoncast.substack.com free subscription gets you an e-mail 78 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:47,440 about once or twice a week with all of our podcasts and 79 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,040 occasionally some links to articles or other items that we 80 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,200 found to be worthwhile. I'll try to put a couple of 81 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:58,200 items from what I just discussed into that e-mail today, which 82 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,000 you probably if you if you're already subscribed you've seen 83 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,600 it and if not you will when you subscribe. 84 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,720 You also have a paid subscription option. 85 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,120 It's it's low cost, it's $5 a month, $50 a year if you want to 86 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,520 financially support the podcast and we try to give those folks 87 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:15,000 some extra items, some extra videos. 88 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,240 In this e-mail today we've got Scott giving an IndyCar preview. 89 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,280 We're going to try to increase our overall IndyCar coverage 90 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:25,920 throughout the course of this upcoming season as as it's 91 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,960 starting tomorrow. The the Grand Prix of Saint Pete 92 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:35,760 is happening on Sunday, so you got that coming, so you should 93 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,120 go ahead and subscribe, it'd be great. 94 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,440 We'll try to do some regular podcasts on that as well. 95 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,040 Again, crimsoncast.substack.com. So a couple other items real 96 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,880 quick that I wanted to hit on before we got started. 97 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:54,200 First of all, you know in this podcast that Scott and I did, we 98 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:57,600 we didn't talk whole lot about Senior Day or the Michigan State 99 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,400 game. And I, you know a quick preview 100 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,440 on I guess one of those items is that we're still not sure and 101 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,320 I'm recording this at about 1:30 on Saturday and and so maybe 102 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,160 probably something will break right after I record this. 103 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,760 But we're still not totally sure if Anthony Leal and Trey 104 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,560 Galloway are planning on walking on Senior Day. 105 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880 That was something that was was not revealed during Mike 106 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,680 Woodson's press conference on Friday and we still haven't 107 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,600 heard anything on social media at this point. 108 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,440 So we we may see Trey Galloway and Anthony Leal talk to the 109 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:33,680 crowd. We may not. 110 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,600 We know we're going to see Xavier Johnson talk to the crowd 111 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,200 and I'm assuming we're going to see Anthony Walker talk to the 112 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,040 crowd, but we're not sure beyond that. 113 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,640 You know, this is an interesting thing. 114 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,520 It's a little bit surprising, you know, not entirely shocking, 115 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:48,520 but it's a little bit surprising. 116 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,960 We don't know about either of those players and what their 117 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,480 intentions are and and look, they could choose not to talk 118 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,640 and Senior Day and and still not be back. 119 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,920 They could choose to talk on Senior Day and still be back. 120 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:03,280 I mean they're a bunch of stuffs on the table in terms of all of 121 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:07,080 this. But certainly you know this is 122 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,400 both an artifact of kind of the weird spot college basketball's 123 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,160 in right now with with not just the portal but the COVID year 124 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,360 that a lot of players including Leo and Galloway are are still, 125 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,600 you know, using or could use. It's, you know, there's all 126 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,520 there's that, but there's also the clearly the very odd 127 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,920 circumstances surrounding the IU basketball program right now. 128 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,120 So a lot to think about there and it will be interesting to 129 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,520 see how it all plays out on Sunday. 130 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:42,760 The game at 4:30, you know, hopefully fans go and are in 131 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,880 full throated support of of all the players, but particularly 132 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,760 the seniors and hopefully they're able to lead IU to a win 133 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,480 against the Michigan State team. That's a really interesting case 134 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,440 to take a look at. You know, Michigan State has had 135 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,480 one of those seasons that is just kind of peculiar to watch. 136 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,720 They are 18 and 12 right now. They're ten and nine in 137 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,760 conference. They had to squeak out a win 138 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,960 against Northwestern earlier this week That ended a 139 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,760 three-game losing streak, which included home losses to Iowa and 140 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,880 Ohio State. Which is not what one might have 141 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,960 expected out of Michigan State in any season, let alone a 142 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,040 season when Iowa's very mid and Ohio State is not very good. 143 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,360 But they did beat Northwestern, which was a good sign for them. 144 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,600 They look to be safely in the tournament largely because, you 145 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,159 know, they've done just enough. They've yeah, they beat Baylor 146 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,440 in a semi home environment. They beat Illinois. 147 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,120 They've got some Rd. wins, although nothing that's like 148 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,360 something you'd write home to your mom about. 149 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,800 They've they've won at Maryland, at Penn State, at Michigan. 150 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,840 They're one of those teams that has a really good defensive 151 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,640 presence. They're they're 11th in Ken Palm 152 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,920 and defensive efficiency. They play a pretty slow down 153 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,960 style. They really slow down their 154 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,040 opponents. That's probably been one of the 155 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,880 key items of of what made this made their defense so good. 156 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,360 Similar to IU, they're not a team that that takes a lot of 157 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,520 threes as a proportion of their overall offense dissimilar to 158 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,360 IU. They do hit threes at a pretty 159 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,160 good clip. They're about a 36% three-point 160 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,640 shooting team, but their offense has just been kind of gunky all 161 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,480 season. You know, they've really only 162 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,120 got one truly efficient scorer and and that's Malik Hall, the 163 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,000 the senior post player and most of his work is getting done in 164 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,360 the paint, but he's also been fairly effective. 165 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,120 When he's gone out and shot threes, you know, they've 166 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,920 they've not gotten the season I think that they would have 167 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,200 wanted offensively out of Tyson Walker. 168 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:42,960 They haven't gotten the season they would have wanted 169 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,760 offensively out of AJ Hogard and they've just struggled. 170 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,200 I think from an identity perspective, a lot of the things 171 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,440 you expect out of the Michigan State team, you haven't really 172 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,680 seen out of this team. Now that said, they are one of 173 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:01,400 the unluckiest teams in college basketball, which is something 174 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,920 that we talked about in an earlier episode when we were 175 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,320 talking about, you know, trying to figure out how teams rate 176 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,120 against each other. If you recall Maryland also a 177 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,320 tremendously unlucky team and and as I mentioned when I was 178 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,000 trying to explain that earlier the luck statistic in Ken Palm 179 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:24,440 is a stand in for looking at your statistical performance as 180 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:29,360 a team in each game and the computer saying based upon how 181 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,200 you performed you should have this record and if you're above 182 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,960 that in terms of wins that improves your luck standing and 183 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,400 if you're below it it decreases your luck standing. 184 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,360 So it's luck is almost, it's a it's a catch all phrase and it 185 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,040 isn't really luck as much as it is over or under performance 186 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,120 according to what the computers would expect. 187 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,640 And Michigan State has underperformed quite a bit. 188 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,720 A lot of that is because they have had a lot of relatively 189 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,280 close losses in in their season. They they lost by three and 190 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,760 overtime in the first game of the season to James Madison, 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,560 they lost by what, nine points to Duke on a neutral floor? 192 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:11,000 They lost by 6 to Arizona and on a neutral floor They lost by 7 193 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,560 to Nebraska on the road. They lost by three to Illinois 194 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:16,840 on the road. They lost by three to Minnesota 195 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,480 on the road. They lost by three at home to 196 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,760 Ohio State. Like they played well enough 197 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,000 that they probably could have either gotten closer or won 198 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,000 almost all those games. But it didn't happen for them. 199 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,200 And so does that mean anything? I mean it didn't against 200 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,160 Maryland. Indiana was able to to play 201 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,160 well. And I think this is an 202 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,000 interesting match up for Indiana because Indiana, I would argue 203 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,800 is playing better right now on the whole than Michigan State 204 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,960 is. And how much of that maintains 205 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,120 in this particular game when Michigan State could really use 206 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,680 the win just in terms of stabilizing their tournament 207 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:58,320 resume And for seating purposes, it's going to be really 208 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,960 fascinating to see. Michigan State has played really 209 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,520 well. They really only had, you know 210 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,160 like four games this season where you could say, wow, you, 211 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,640 you played significantly under under standards, actually maybe 212 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,040 5 and all of the more losses. But the vast majority of their 213 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,680 games, they have been pretty impressive in terms of their 214 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:19,520 overall performance. And what's going to be 215 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,640 fascinating to me is how well do they perform offensively in a 216 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,160 road game. They're only, statistically 217 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,720 speaking, on pound. Ken Palm, they're only a four 218 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,640 point favorite. And on Torvik they're only a 3.3 219 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,200 point favorite. So the computer's kind of like 220 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,080 Indiana in this one. And you know Michigan State not 221 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,200 being able to hit threes consistently, they were two for 222 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,200 17 in that win against Northwestern. 223 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,640 They were two for 14 in their win on the road against 224 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,560 Michigan. And that ultimately ends up 225 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:56,440 being one of those deals where I don't know how Michigan State 226 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,640 will necessarily perform when they come in to Assembly Hall 227 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,480 and you know that has been, they've had luck. 228 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,600 They have obviously beat Indiana last year you know at home, but 229 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,320 they lost an Assembly Hall. They they lost 8269 at IU that 230 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,880 was in what mid January last year but they beat Indiana by 15 231 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,640 at the Breslin Center in in 2022. 232 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,240 They they beat Indiana at home and they didn't play Indiana on 233 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,200 the road that year. But you know, Michigan State 234 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,440 hasn't been the unbeatable foe for Indiana that that they, you 235 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,640 know, maybe had been consistently over the course of 236 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,480 some time that, you know, Archie's last year they did 237 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,320 sweep Indiana, but that Indiana by that point it already really 238 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,800 started to go downhill and was losing games left and right. 239 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:49,840 So anyway, all that said, I am really curious to see how all of 240 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,080 this plays out and what we're going to get out of both teams. 241 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,440 I think for IU, whatever lightning they've managed to 242 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,080 bottle over the course of the last couple of games or last 243 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,560 three games in terms of offensive positivity has got to 244 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,360 be where it starts and and they've got to play good 245 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,160 defense. If if you look at what Indiana's 246 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,160 done in terms of their performance so far in this 247 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,120 winning streak, they they were really impressive offensively 248 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,440 against Wisconsin. They were really impressive 249 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,000 offensively for the whole game against Maryland. 250 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,120 They that they're adjusted offensive efficiency in that 251 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,960 game was 130.3 and then even though they weren't nearly as 252 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,920 impressive offensively on the road against Minnesota, they 253 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,680 were very impressive defensively. 254 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,880 Minnesota, they they held to an adjusted defensive number of 79, 255 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,400 which is ridiculously low. That's that is if you go all the 256 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,560 way down the list they've only played one better defensive game 257 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,600 all season and that was the game at home versus Maryland back in 258 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,480 the beginning of December. So. 259 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,360 Looking at all that. I think Indiana's got a fairly 260 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,400 good chance to win this game if they can get the field goals to 261 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,840 drop. And you know the last three 262 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,080 games, Indiana's effective field goal percentage. 263 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,720 And for those who don't know what that is, effective field 264 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,960 goal percentage is counting 3 pointers, 1 1/2 times what you 265 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,840 would count 2 pointers to account for the fact that 266 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,800 they're worth more points. Indiana's effective field goal 267 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,800 percentage in the stretch of games from the Illinois loss all 268 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,040 the way through to the Penn State loss on the road, hovered 269 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:32,000 somewhere between 45 and 52%. In the last three games, 270 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,280 Indiana's effective field goal percentage has been 68% against 271 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:41,160 Wisconsin, 62 1/2% against Maryland and 59.1% against 272 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,840 Minnesota. So if the shots are falling, I 273 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,120 like Indiana's chances in this one and we'll just have to see 274 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,720 if they've, if they've crap captured some kind of a vibe 275 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,560 from a shooting perspective that will allow them to take 276 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,080 advantage. Because at the end of it all, 277 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,480 this ends up being kind of newfound strength for Indiana in 278 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,720 terms of, hey, we can shoot the ball and it'll go in versus what 279 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,040 has been an existing strength for Michigan State all season, 280 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,360 which is their ability to play defense and and hold teams to 281 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,360 not great shooting percentages. So with all that said, we'll see 282 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,720 what happens in the game. I hope if you're going that you 283 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,960 have a good experience and hopefully Indiana's able to give 284 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,760 the fans something small to cheer for as they close out the 285 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,160 home campaign and get ready for the Big 10 tournament. 286 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,320 We'll see what happens. Anyway, we're going to go ahead 287 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,960 and go to Scott. We'll have probably a recap 288 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,520 podcast coming on Monday sometime, so be sure to stay 289 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,640 tuned for that. And obviously we'll in that same 290 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,680 period of time, we'll finally have a sense of what Indiana 291 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,040 seating is going to be and what their pathway will be for the 292 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,360 Big 10 tournament, which will take place starting on 293 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,320 Wednesday. Although it sounds like now for 294 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,680 Indiana, they've removed themselves from the equation for 295 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,280 the first games that are played on Wednesday. 296 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,800 So Indiana will start on Thursday. 297 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,359 We just don't know who they're going to play or what their 298 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:12,310 seeds going to be. All right. 299 00:17:12,310 --> 00:17:16,599 Joining us now, Scott is with us, Scott. 300 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:17,760 Good to see you. How you doing, hey? 301 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,560 Man, how you doing? I'm doing fine. 302 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,560 Interesting way to go into the last game of the season, 303 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,400 obviously for IU as I just. Want to let you know that I'm 304 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,280 committed to the podcast? Are you? 305 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,200 I'll just choose my words very carefully. 306 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,200 Are you sure? I don't know. 307 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,680 I mean, Barstools call it. I'll see what they have to say. 308 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,280 Wow. Scott on Barstool is absolutely 309 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,400 a scenario that we let's like an alternate universe that I would, 310 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,760 I'd be frightened to see how it played out. 311 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,400 Yeah, I mean. Definitely would hit the 312 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,560 explicit button for. Sure. 313 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,160 Anyway, we need to talk a little bit about what's going on with 314 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,680 the IU basketball. Obviously, we've we've covered 315 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,640 this quite a bit in various ways over the course of the last 316 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,080 month, month and a half. And then obviously there's been 317 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,800 a lot of news that's come out. I talked about this a little bit 318 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,720 at the beginning of the live pod on Wednesday with Zion Brown. 319 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,680 We talked about the announcement that Mike Woodson was going to 320 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,600 be coming back. It was an odd announcement in as 321 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,080 much as you don't normally get those kind of announcements on a 322 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,480 Wednesday in the middle of the week, 2 hours before a road 323 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,920 game. Interestingly, Indiana played 324 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,360 well in that game. Then after the game, Mike 325 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:33,280 Woodson like categorically refused to talk about his job or 326 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,120 his position at IU despite the university putting out a 327 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,800 statement saying that he would be coming back next year. 328 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,840 I mean, anytime you have that vote of confidence as we know it 329 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,000 in this business, it's normally worth talking about, but just 330 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,280 categorically shut down that conversation, which is fine, 331 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,080 That's his prerogative. But then yesterday, about almost 332 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,440 exactly 24 hours after that news leaks, the bombshell drops that 333 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:03,200 Indiana's lone recruit for the 20/24/25 season, Liam Mcneely, 334 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,520 the five star out of Montverde Academy, has asked out of his 335 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,600 NLI and is asking to have his recruitment reopened with a 336 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,520 heavy amount of speculation that he might be refocusing his 337 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,440 efforts on going to Kansas, which is the school that he 338 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,440 basically chose Indiana over back in the fall. 339 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,720 So now things are even in sharper relief for IU basketball 340 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,520 As as of today, the 8th of March, Indiana has zero 341 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,760 committed recruits coming in next year, an uncertain future 342 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,440 in terms of their current roster. 343 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,960 They they could all be back. But even if they are all back, 344 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,440 it's clear that it's not a very complete roster and you've got 345 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,240 the very high likelihood that Khalil Ware is going to be 346 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,120 leaving to go to the draft, and you have a coach who has 347 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,160 essentially been assured of his spot as the head coach. 348 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,640 But there, you know, with the number of questions that are 349 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,200 surrounding the current state of the program, it's got a lot of 350 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,920 fans on edge beyond that. I mean, it's just it's not a 351 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,760 great situation overall. Scott, I guess first of all, I 352 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,960 want to get your general reaction to the Mcneely news. 353 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,520 And then I wanted to do something and kind of lay out 354 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,640 what we know and what we don't know, 'cause I think it's 355 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,160 important that we split those things apart. 356 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,400 But let me let me start with you and your thoughts on the Mcneely 357 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,720 situation. Well, from a different point of 358 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,720 view, it's it's a bummer and we've been here in certain spots 359 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,840 with IU basketball. It's not great, but it's like we 360 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,800 should be talking about a three-game winning streak. 361 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,280 Like we should be talking about a team that's trying to get to 362 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,240 500, trying to get ready for the Big 10 tournament. 363 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,760 Like we're we're not talking about basketball. 364 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,360 That's not great with the Liam Mcneely news, you know that. 365 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,840 To me it's like the order of operations is really what's kind 366 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,920 of damning here is you know kids opt out all of the time. 367 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,440 It's not great that he was a high level recruit that we were 368 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,040 going after that Now the stacks up to basically we we took a 369 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,600 bunch of home run swings for 2024 and we're going to come 04 370 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,480 you know 04 at the plate. But the fact that you have that 371 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,320 Woodson announcement which I I I guess they had, I don't you 372 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,560 wonder why they had to make it. It's like they make it the next 373 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,120 day Mcneely makes his announcement like you you they 374 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:21,640 might be unrelated and it could very well be their unrelated. 375 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,160 They feel related and it just feels very much like 1 begot the 376 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,680 other which isn't a great a great vibe or a great look. 377 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,160 And now you're left you know where there were already a lot 378 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,960 of questions for next season. You know, with, and I'm, I'm 379 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,240 quoting you on Twitter kind of like, well now we don't need to 380 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,320 worry about who we're going to pair with Mcneely in the portal. 381 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,480 It's like there's already like all the holes to fill. 382 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,040 The trouble was Mcneely was a pig. 383 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,720 You are already kind of plugging in. 384 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,280 Well, that pig's gone and and now instead of, you know, 385 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,080 hitting a three run home run in the portal, you've got to hit a 386 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,120 Grand Slam and maybe also hit a second home run and then maybe a 387 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,480 triple of your third at bat. Like you've got to really go 388 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,000 pretty wild with what you've got to do. 389 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,640 It. It makes the path for a really 390 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,840 successful season next year unbelievably narrow and you 391 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,320 know, they've already shortened the recruiting window. 392 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,480 It's just so it it's it's not awesome. 393 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,160 It's not great. And you know, it's things can be 394 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,960 recovered. Things can be done. 395 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,320 But you know part of the college basketball viewing and fun 396 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,200 experience is, you know, you and I don't get into recruiting that 397 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,480 much, but there is kind of the fun of like, oh, like there's 398 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,680 recruits. I'm going to watch McDonald's 399 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,280 All American a game and there is an Indiana player and like so to 400 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,360 have none. Just to have no recruits, none 401 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,600 to look at, nobody from Mr. Basketball, nobody from the 402 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,720 Indiana, Kentucky game. Like there's just no recruits 403 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,640 coming in that that's that. That kind of takes away from 404 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,640 even just part of the fun of college basketball, of getting 405 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,800 excited about it. Not to mention the fact that for 406 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,400 a team that currently needs, it seems to have a lot of holes 407 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,320 that needs to be plugged. To have 0 answers on how it's 408 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,440 going to be done is a little bit daunting as a fan. 409 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,280 Well, I think all of that is very well stated and I guess I'd 410 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:10,000 add to it that it's just a weird spot for a program like Indiana 411 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,880 or like Indiana thinks that it is perhaps would be the better 412 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,960 way of putting it to be in at this point where you know you 413 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,160 the the recruiting and the overall acquisition of players 414 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:29,640 has been pretty uneven so far under Mike Woodson and that is 415 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,480 really starting to look more like perhaps the norm. 416 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,360 You know Indiana obviously when Woodson came in had to fill some 417 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:37,880 holes. They went out and got a couple 418 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,960 guys in the portal. They they grabbed A recruit off 419 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,960 the shelf that had backed out of a commitment at another 420 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,920 university. That was the first year. 421 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,320 Then you know they also brought in a player that had already 422 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,040 been committed. They had a couple of players 423 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,800 that they you know, they they wanted to try to recruit This 424 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,600 year it felt like all of the efforts were around some really 425 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,360 big pieces. Obviously, you know, Mcneely, 426 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,480 Boogie Flan and Derrick Queen, and, you know, it was a, it was 427 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,240 a kind of a bitter consolation prize for Indiana, that they 428 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,560 swung at three of those and we're only going to get one of 429 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,480 them. Now they've swung at three of 430 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,320 them and they've gotten none of them. 431 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,760 And the idea that that's it, there's no backup plan, There's 432 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,840 nothing like on the horizon, I think for a lot of fans is it 433 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,480 should be. And it and it is rightfully 434 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,680 concerning and I think for those people who are watching the 435 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,280 trajectory of the program very closely, what we've been talking 436 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,600 about over the course of not just the month but really the 437 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:43,680 last year is that the system that Indiana's playing isn't 438 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,560 that attractive right now to a lot of recruits. 439 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,880 It's attractive to post players and I think that's why you get a 440 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,640 Khalil Ware and it's why you get a a Malik Renew in Mackenzie. 441 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,240 And Baca is kind of a unique case which we will kind of put 442 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,120 aside for a second. But you know the the juice that 443 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,920 you would have in terms of trying to bring people in, a lot 444 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,720 of it is, is it's not just nil dollars, it's it's about fit as 445 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,440 much as anything else. People talk, we talked about 446 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,480 this before, but people talk about like Dalton Connect like 447 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,880 why did he go to Tennessee. You know Indiana was interested 448 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,640 in him and he didn't even take a visit. 449 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,880 I don't believe even if he did, if it was an official one. 450 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,400 It's not just about, hey, here's X number of dollars in NIL, it's 451 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,400 about what's the fit, how are you going to play within this 452 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,920 system. And as we've talked about, it's 453 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:38,480 hard to reconcile what you see out of players, freshmen and 454 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,680 sophomores especially that are in Indiana's system and how much 455 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,320 they are struggling to contribute. 456 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Or how long of a in the Mackenzie and Bacco's case, how 457 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,320 long it took them to get up to speed versus what you're seeing 458 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,040 at Purdue, at Illinois, where not only are you seeing those 459 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,440 programs integrate freshmen, get them into their system, but 460 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,560 you're also seeing transfers. You know, Purdue has thrived 461 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,760 this year with a transfer that they got out of the Missouri 462 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,160 Valley Conference who has played a big role for them. 463 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,360 Illinois, same thing, you know Marcus Damask came out of the 464 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,320 the Missouri Valley and it's like it's the the system doesn't 465 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,520 seem to be attracting even mid level players who are looking to 466 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,440 take a jump up, let alone top level players who might be 467 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,720 looking at a place like Indiana as where they'd want to go. 468 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,720 And I guess what worries me now, you've left everything to do in 469 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,520 the portal. You don't get the long tail 470 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,240 development like you were talking about. 471 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,800 The Portal hasn't been around for that long, but we do have 472 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,400 all of this data that it's not a particularly reliable place to 473 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,400 go if you're having to rely on it to essentially bring a new 474 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,760 team or large parts of a new team in. 475 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,640 And the idea that especially you're going to go get a 476 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,040 starting point guard that can play it at a big 10 caliber 477 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,640 level throughout the course of the season in the Portal seems 478 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,000 fanciful given that those are among the most valuable players 479 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,440 in basketball. And there are offensive systems 480 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,280 out there and teams looking for players like that who would be 481 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,120 much better suited in most cases to allowing those players to 482 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,080 showcase their skills to get to the next level. 483 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,320 And yes, you can point to Jalen Hutchefino and say, well look 484 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,680 what we did with him, but I don't know if that's enough. 485 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,400 I think it might have been enough coming off a season where 486 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,120 you were a four seed in the NCAA tournament and finished second 487 00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:27,520 in the Big 10. I don't know if that's enough. 488 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,840 If you're coming off a season where your offense is hovering 489 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,760 around 100th in Ken Palm, you're around 100th in Ken Palm 490 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,840 overall, and you missed the NCAA tournament, like at some point 491 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,800 it's not about the nil dollars or what happened two years ago. 492 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,840 It's about what are we dropping you into now as a Portal player? 493 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,520 I think if you're an IU fan, there's real cause for concern 494 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,920 because there doesn't appear to be a clear pathway towards 495 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,080 reconstituting a roster that already has some holes. 496 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,480 And that's assuming that nobody else leaves. 497 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,800 So I think there's there's two other things here and each of 498 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,720 them are are I think real problems where you kind of have 499 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,000 diametrically opposed things that both need to be done kind 500 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,040 of at the same time. So when you look at you know, 501 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,880 what needs to be done in the portal, this is something 502 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,640 Woodson has talked about that you know, you know that the team 503 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,720 needs more continuity and a little more leadership. 504 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,760 And so on one hand you can think, all right, you know in 505 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,000 the portal you need to go after you know juniors and seniors and 506 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,400 and guys who can be leaders. You know, one of the troubles is 507 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,280 that if you you're going to need to get five or six guys in the 508 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,920 portal who are going to be big time contributors next year. 509 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,160 The idea that they're going to all have, you know, Jelly and 510 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,400 continuity is, is is probably really hard. 511 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,120 You're going to have the same problem next year. 512 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,800 But if you do go with the leadership aspect, you're just 513 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,680 perpetuating a cycle where now you need to get six more guys 514 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,640 the next year or you can go and get maybe some sophomores in the 515 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,080 in the portal. But now you're going to have the 516 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,840 same, you know going off of what Woodson has talked about with 517 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,120 leadership, you're now going to have that leadership issue. 518 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,280 But to me the the bigger issue that I see is something I listen 519 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,000 to the assembly call radio show last night and something that 520 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,920 Joe brought up. He kind of brought up his like 521 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,360 the the doomsday scenario. But I'm going to take a step 522 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,360 back, you know when when they announced that Woodson was 523 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,880 coming back. I think we can all agree that 524 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,920 this season has been you know various stages of disappointment 525 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,480 where where where it files and that continuum, it depends on 526 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,040 where you see things. But you know this is not gone 527 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,360 well and I I firmly believe that you know if they're going to 528 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,280 bring Woodson back there does I feel like need to be some kind 529 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,760 of change to the staff in my mind you can't just bring just 530 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680 run it all back so you know if you. 531 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,320 But on the flip side, as Joe was mentioning on the podcast last 532 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,440 night, like if you start having to do some staff overhauls, 533 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,920 you're now when you lose an assistant, you lose all the 534 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,840 relationships that that assistant had with recruits and 535 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,840 transfers. And now not only are you trying 536 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,200 to work the portal in a 45 day manner while fighting other 537 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,760 teams, if you're also trying to hire two assistant coaches in 538 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,920 that process, that becomes an even more complex and a a 539 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,760 harder, you know, a harder problem to solve. 540 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,320 And I view this as a real problem. 541 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,120 It's like, so now you're looking at it as, like, you know, if you 542 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,880 just bring back the entire staff with the idea of like we need 543 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,440 continuity to at least solve this portal problem, it's like 544 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,320 okay, but you're are you solving the problems that caused a 545 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,320 really poor season this year? But if you do what you need to 546 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,520 do, which is maybe make some staff changes, you're now making 547 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,600 the the ability to get the players you need this offseason 548 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,400 even more difficult, which may not build the foundation that 549 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,400 new staff needs next year. It's like I I don't they're 550 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,560 they're kind of in a spot where they've got to pick one or the 551 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,000 other, but they're both kind of the the worst option for each 552 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,320 option. There's a whole separate 553 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,040 conversation to be had about 2526 right now. 554 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,400 You know and this is, this is where so one of the. 555 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,960 So first of all I think it's important to emphasize for 556 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,440 people listening to the show, We've got people who are very 557 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,400 online who listen to the show. They're on Twitter, they're on 558 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,160 the Discord, they're they're very plugged in to the chatter 559 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,320 online. We've also got a lot of 560 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,160 listeners who aren't plugged into those things. 561 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,480 And I and I think it's important for the people who aren't 562 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,160 plugged in online who might be thinking about all this, like 563 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,360 why do you guys keep talking about Woodson being in trouble? 564 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,720 Because a lot of that discourse hasn't really soaked in outside 565 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,400 and and and I to some degree think that, you know, you can't 566 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:39,720 say that there's a a clear pathway for why we're already at 567 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,640 the conversation of Woodson being potentially under fire to 568 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,200 the point that Indiana felt the need. 569 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,560 And when I say Indiana, I mean Indiana really loosely like 570 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,160 people, people who are involved with Indiana decided to put out 571 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,360 an unnamed statement, not even a statement, but just kind of a 572 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280 confirmation that Mike Woodson would be back For a lot of 573 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,120 people. They're like, well, this 574 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,960 season's been a bit tough, but it's not like they have a losing 575 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,160 record like Archie Miller had in in his last year. 576 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,120 It's not like, you know, there's clear, like ironclad discontent 577 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,760 like Crane had in his last year and yet we've seen booing at 578 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,920 Assembly Hall already. There's all these things that 579 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,520 have occurred for I think for a lot of people who are observing 580 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:30,200 the program closely, the concern is not so much the results this 581 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,360 year alone. That is certainly part of it. 582 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:40,360 The larger concern is the real lack of clear pathway or plan or 583 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,080 strategy moving forward. And and I think just taking next 584 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,560 year into account and this idea that we're going to plug a bunch 585 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,240 of holes and there's going to be 0 recruits. 586 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,120 You know maybe you'll get, you'll pick someone off that 587 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,240 decommits somewhere else perhaps. 588 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,680 But again, you've the chance that you've built a long term 589 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,240 relationship with that player and you're really thinking 590 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,760 through how they fit into the the organic chemistry of IU 591 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,080 basketball I'd say is low. Maybe you get lucky and someone 592 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,840 that you spend a lot of time on the committed somewhere ends up 593 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,960 decommitting because a coach gets fired or whatnot. 594 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,360 That's there is a possibility there, but more likely than not 595 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,920 it's a situation like Tamar Bates where oh here's a five 596 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,040 star that's available because there was a coaching change at 597 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,960 Texas. We're going to grab him. 598 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,880 You saw how, and you know Tamar had other things going on, but 599 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,680 you saw how like that was not a great fit organically when you 600 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,000 compared it to, say, Jalen Huchefino and the way that that 601 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,800 recruitment went. So you don't have a player that 602 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,680 you've recruited like? That coming in. 603 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,440 Or even like, I mean just another example like Malik Renew 604 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,480 who has worked out but like his first year was still rocky. 605 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,920 So if you get that, you know you get a Malik Renew type next 606 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,480 year, it's like, is that enough to get you out of the hole 607 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,280 you've dug? Because it it could be a bit of 608 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,840 a project. And the point is, the point is, 609 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,760 you know, next year there might be the ability to do some 610 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,360 patchwork with the portal. Maybe you get lucky. 611 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,120 You know Mike Weymouth from the Ex's and Joes on Twitter laid 612 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,080 out kind of from a production perspective what Indiana would 613 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,840 need to do in the portal. And it's daunting, you know, I 614 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,040 mean even for a program that suppose you know has the nil 615 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,639 resources that IU has. IU doesn't have the market like 616 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:20,560 the brand value to go and just get anybody that they want. 617 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,360 They're not North Carolina. They're not a tough program like 618 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,520 Arizona that's you know, a a single digit seat every year and 619 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,760 and plays you know this attractive offense. 620 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,280 They're not Kansas, they're they're, you know, Indiana is 621 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,080 just kind of this sea level program right now. 622 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,360 And that might be being charitable, quite frankly, 623 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,560 because sea level programs probably make the tournament 624 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,199 more than twice in seven years. So you end up with this 625 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,159 situation where you are banking largely on not just going into 626 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,960 the portal and getting what you need and having those players 627 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,320 immediately contribute at a level that is significantly 628 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,920 above what you've seen out of this year's team. 629 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,760 You've blamed if you're Mike Woodson. 630 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,960 You've blamed the lack of continuity and all the fresh 631 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,720 faces this season on your team not playing well and now you're 632 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:10,760 going into a season where you'll have less continuity in most 633 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,280 cases. You know it's certainly you're 634 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,200 not going to have whatever continuity you had at the at the 635 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,440 point guard position if you lose Khalil where you're having to 636 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,280 break somebody new in there. But what worries me even more 637 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,320 the next year is without any freshman that you have 638 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,840 cultivated relationships with and really thought about their 639 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,880 long term placement within the program, you have an even weaker 640 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,880 foundation for the following year. 641 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,840 And the lack of success in recruiting and the lack of 642 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,480 strategic effectiveness in who you've targeted in recruiting 643 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,560 over the course of the last couple of seasons. 644 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,960 I mean, because let me think about it, the recruits that 645 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,160 Indiana's pulled in that they had a longer tailed recruiting 646 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,680 relationship with. I mean well, Gabe Cops, who's 647 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,400 struggled to contribute offensively at least in terms of 648 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,680 statistics. CJ Gunn, who has barely played. 649 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,600 Caleb Banks, who has barely played. 650 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,920 I mean, Malik Renew's been a success and Mackenzie and 651 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,040 Bacco's talented enough that he's been able to round into 652 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,400 shape on the floor. But you know the other players 653 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:13,880 that you've been relying on. But renew. 654 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,680 And Malik were not long term recruit. 655 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,600 I'm like, well your no, your point, your point's to it's a 656 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,640 good point but but but even with that it's like OK, take Malik 657 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,840 Renew out of that equation. You just don't have a lot of 658 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,560 that stability. If that's really the problem, 659 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:33,400 you're really in trouble I think in terms of trying to create 660 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,760 some kind of organic chemistry between your players and your 661 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,320 coaching staff on the fly in the portal. 662 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,160 When generally speaking, the players that are coming in from 663 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,520 the portal are not sure things as we've seen with several other 664 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,840 programs, there are success stories, but there's a lot of 665 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,720 non success stories that we don't talk about. 666 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,680 And and something more to that you know that that Twitter post 667 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,920 about you know what we would need to get in the in the 668 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,280 portals I've seen some of this. I've heard people talk about it 669 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,920 the last 24 hours about, you know what we what we would need 670 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,880 to get and how we need to do And just you know if we could dial 671 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,280 back the expectations for next year a little bit you know can 672 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,400 we at least get to like a 10 or 11 seater. 673 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,040 Just getting the you know and and this is where I have 674 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,920 struggle with it is again for those who are not in the online 675 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,560 discourse I'm kind of like foot in, foot out. 676 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,000 I'm not as deep into it as others. 677 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:23,600 But you know, all I can say is that the some people it is not 678 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,360 to do it now this different time for a different debate, but like 679 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,040 the fact is some people have checked out like some. 680 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,880 People, a lot of a lot of people have checked out. 681 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,560 Some people have been like I I think we need to move on and 682 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,160 that has happened. And as I've said many times, 683 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,160 once fans cross that Rubicon, rightly or wrongly, you don't 684 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:45,440 get them back by just performing at AC level. 685 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,760 You have to over perform and what I mean by that is like you 686 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,320 know last year you're you know fourth in the Big 10. 687 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,920 You you go a four seed in the NCAA tournament you don't make 688 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,280 it to the Sweet 16. Like that's not an over 689 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,240 performing year like over performing is winning the Big 10 690 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:04,360 making the Elite 8 having a real shot at a final four maybe make 691 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,560 the final four. Like this is where I think that 692 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,680 I I get concerned just from a wanting the the program to be 693 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,920 successful and healthy and vibrant is you have a a portion 694 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,040 of the fan base that is. That is out. 695 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,440 Right now and I continue to bring this up when people kind 696 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,800 of discuss like all right, let's just, you know we dial back 697 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,680 expectation, we can just kind of you know steady things for next 698 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,040 year and then move it for the year after. 699 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,000 It's like this is how you get into the problems of the Archie 700 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,200 problem. These are all these problems we 701 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,280 get into is like at some point you have to over perform you 702 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,840 might have to do it two years in a row to get those people back 703 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,960 and I think that's that's the issue is all of the things that 704 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,240 we're looking at next year now without Mcneely it it's kind of 705 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,720 like can we just struggle to get to here And I'm like that 706 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:54,280 getting to that minimum threshold is not good enough you 707 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,160 you have to over perform. And you know the last thing I'll 708 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,400 say too is just, you know, as it it's also tough just because you 709 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,960 know again part of college basketball is the fun of 710 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,680 recruiting and like you know, getting a five star recruit buys 711 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,960 you, you know, it buys you some of that window of time where 712 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,440 it's like hey you just you can talk about the future and you'd 713 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,200 like you've lost all of that now. 714 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:23,880 Well, yeah, I mean, you know, here's the thing. 715 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:30,800 I think that we too easily sometimes allow this idea that 716 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,800 fans are the problem, especially with Indiana. 717 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,880 Like there's been such an unbroken chain of a lack in the 718 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,600 problem, lack of success over the course of the last 25 years, 719 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,800 and it always seems to boomerang back to this idea that fans are 720 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:44,960 the problem. You're talking about fans 721 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:50,440 getting disengaged. You know, the the idea to me 722 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:56,640 that fans are at the root cause of like the Mcneely departure is 723 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,280 is about the dumbest thing I've heard spoken. 724 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,800 That is, that's a coaching thing. 725 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,400 I'm sorry. You know, players of that 726 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,880 caliber don't decommit because of what's going on on on social 727 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,400 media. And if and if you think that to 728 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,360 borrow something that you used to say for years on the podcast, 729 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,560 you're either lying or you're stupid. 730 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,160 I mean that that is, that is, it's amazing to me. 731 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,880 I think more than anything else. And this is more of a macro 732 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,120 thing. Over the last month and 1/2 as 733 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:35,120 as IU has failed to meet what I think we're pretty low 734 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,280 reasonable expectations for a program that has the type of of 735 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,200 recruited talent that's currently on the roster. 736 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,800 The amount of, oh, you people are, you know, you fans or you 737 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,960 people that are talking about this online or or you're causing 738 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,560 the problem and everything would be fine if people would all just 739 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,080 get It's like that's not the way that it works. 740 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,760 OK? Fans are reacting to what 741 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,120 they're seeing and what's being put in front of them and they're 742 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,120 not a unified. It's not like there's a hive 743 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,280 mind that, you know, this is not some kind of gestalt 744 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,880 consciousness where you know, all the fans just think 745 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,440 automatically the same way. There are, you know, from from 746 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,000 the 19 year old on campus who's just being introduced to IU 747 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,880 basketball for the first time, to the 46 year old living in 748 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,080 Noblesville who's been watching for 20 some years and hasn't 749 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,280 seen any any success. To the 75 year old retiree 750 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,360 living in Scottsdale who's seen it all, like everybody to some 751 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,240 degree is watching all of this, processing it. 752 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:38,560 They're seeing what's going on on the floor game after game. 753 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:42,440 They're seeing the the weird trajectory that recruiting is 754 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,520 taking and and that the overall discourse around the program has 755 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,160 has taken because of the stuff that's going on on the floor. 756 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,120 And a lot of them are just like, you know what this is? 757 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,040 I've seen so many people the last week even before the 758 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,760 announcement that you know that that Woodson was going to come 759 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,040 back and then the Mcnealy de commitment, which I'm still not 760 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,440 sure if those are connected in terms of timing or if that was 761 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,600 entirely incidental. I've seen so many people just 762 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,280 because of the nature of the way this season has played out in in 763 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,600 the context of the last 1020 years say I can't do this. 764 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,040 I'm I'm tired of giving this much attention this much money 765 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,120 to to focusing on it. And you know at some point if 766 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,480 you if you and you know we we see this with some of the 767 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,680 statements or lack thereof. You know you you know for for 768 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,360 there to be in the press conference today like well I'm 769 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,680 not going to talk about recruiting. 770 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,640 It's like really like the most of the season has been 771 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,320 predicated on this idea that the problem is guys not hitting 772 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,280 shots. So you go recruit a guy whose 773 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,840 primary thing is to hit shots and now that player is no longer 774 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,200 coming. Of course people are going to 775 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,360 want to hear something on the recruiting front. 776 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,960 You just got a public vote of confidence in your job from your 777 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,440 employer, which is never a good sign in any sporting 778 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:02,560 environment. Can you imagine? 779 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,640 Remember the last time that a a vote of confidence for anybody's 780 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,880 job in sports coaching came out and things were good? 781 00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:12,000 Like the Miami Heat aren't coming out and be like, hey, 782 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,160 we're going to keep Spolstra for next. 783 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:13,680 Year. So. 784 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,960 So if it's not, if it's not Mike Woodson's job to talk about 785 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,720 those things, someone needs to say something. 786 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:24,320 Because what you're what you're relying on at this point is fans 787 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,840 being given occasionally a fun product, but more often than not 788 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,480 a not a fun product to watch. And you know you, you've got 789 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,320 fans who spent tons of money on tickets, far more than what you 790 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,240 see at other Big 10 schools for the same product because of the 791 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,560 brand, because it's supposedly special and they're not being 792 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,640 given a return and they're being asked to emotionally invest in 793 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:47,960 something. And they are. 794 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,520 And then when that doesn't work out, they're told, well, shut 795 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,440 your mouth, you don't know what you're talking about and you're 796 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,440 the problem. That's like that's that's how 797 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,200 you lose a generation, which has been happening, and I'm not, 798 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,840 this is not even a matter of saying, well, they need to make 799 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,800 a change. It's that right now. 800 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,560 If you're an IU fan, I think you are desperately looking in many, 801 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,360 in a lot of cases, I want to speak for everybody. 802 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,600 But I, the people that I'm seeing online, the people that 803 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,440 I've talked to, they're looking for a reason to remain engaged 804 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,560 because they've watched what looked like a positive 805 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,520 trajectory for the program take 180° turn. 806 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,800 And they're basically being told, well, you need to not 807 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,480 worry about any of that, just sit in your seats and cheer and 808 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,960 that's that. And I I hate to say it like 809 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,280 that's not the era that we're in. 810 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,880 Like that's that's not how audiences work. 811 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:48,840 And I feel like Indiana basketball is even an even worse 812 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,080 case scenario now than it was when Crean got fired because at 813 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,640 that point there was at least some success to point back to. 814 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,080 That was at a level where you could say, well, look, we've 815 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,000 hit, we've hit some pinnacles. They're not the pinnacles we 816 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,160 want. It's like they've been no 817 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,680 pinnacles hit. You know, going to the NCAA 818 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,720 tournament, that's not success at IU. 819 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:12,840 That's just, that's supposed to be what you do and that that 820 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,080 gets pointed to as well. You know that that's a 821 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,400 justification for XY or Z is kind of. 822 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,120 Baffling at this point. So I'm going to take an even 823 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,160 more like macro 30,000 foot view of this. 824 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,560 But to to the fan engagement thing is, you know, I've been 825 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,920 thinking about this for a while is like just kind of like, you 826 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,360 know, are are you taking it seriously? 827 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,000 Because I take it seriously like. 828 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,040 And are you not you like you as the university. 829 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,000 Are you, are you guys really taking this seriously? 830 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,880 And, you know, I have no stats pulled up. 831 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,520 I'm just kind of thinking of teams in the top of my top of my 832 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,240 head, like, you know, UCLA basketball. 833 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,320 It's like over the last 20 years. 834 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,840 Are they really taking it seriously? 835 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,560 I bet I would just like probably not. 836 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,480 Like probably in the last 1050. It doesn't feel like they're 837 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,920 taking it as seriously as they used to. 838 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,120 It's like Alabama. I don't think they did. 839 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,840 And now I think they do like Oregon. 840 00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,840 I think they did for a while. I'm not sure they do anymore. 841 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,920 You know, and this is all based and you can go micro and be like 842 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,080 they made this good decision that that bad decision. 843 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,800 But I think if a UCLA podcast is having the same discussion, they 844 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,080 said Indiana, you think they're taking it seriously. 845 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,760 Like, no, they're probably not. And you look here, it's like, do 846 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,800 you think North Carolina takes basketball seriously? 847 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,920 I do like and and yes there are coaches who've been good and bad 848 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,920 and like you get the right coach and it and it it it makes things 849 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,880 different. But this is where I just kind of 850 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,600 step back and, you know, I'm not picking one decision here, but 851 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,920 just kind of an overarching, like part of me is honestly like 852 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,440 is is this something that is that that the university is 853 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,320 taking as seriously as I do because the the checks keep 854 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,520 coming, you know, the bills keep coming due. 855 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,960 And like we always talk about like, you know, what is 856 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,280 deserved? Like are you deserve this, 857 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,560 deserve that. Like I know that I'm deserved to 858 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,040 to pay the bills for the tickets when they come every year. 859 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,840 The prices don't ever go down. And there is a part as a fan 860 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,880 where it's like, are are you taking this seriously? 861 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,760 Because we're not having the results of a program that takes 862 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,440 it seriously. Now you can be taking it 863 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,200 seriously and make a lot of wrong decisions. 864 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:01,960 And it's like are you doing things the correct way? 865 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,120 But it it does feel like, you know, when programs feel like 866 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,840 they're taking it seriously. Like I said with like, you know, 867 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,000 UCLA at times, Oregon at times, Alabama now, you know when they 868 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,360 start taking it seriously, like they pop. 869 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,840 They just, they they pop and and you see them hit here and there. 870 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,720 They don't all win a title. They don't all make an Oregon 871 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:23,200 made a final four in that run. But it's like there was five or 872 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,280 six years where Oregon was like, wow, that's a real force. 873 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,320 They're doing something there. And it's just that's kind of 874 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,400 where I go back to like it's just I I know people are taking 875 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,400 it. I I know people are trying and 876 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,280 like I don't think they're just fluffing this off. 877 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,320 But it it it is something that has crossed my mind. 878 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:46,240 I think sometimes it's too easy to assume when we say are they 879 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,880 taking it seriously, we're talking about a unified 880 00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:53,240 organization that's running things. 881 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,920 And I don't know that that's necessarily something that can 882 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,320 be assumed. I mean, and I don't want to get 883 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,800 into this now, but if you understand how this 884 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:08,320 communication generally works in college sports, a lot of weird 885 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,120 stuff that's happened over the last couple of weeks that has me 886 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,560 scratching my head a little bit about, you know, the idea of IU 887 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,560 as a unified entity moving forward with all of this. 888 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,920 It's just it's a little bit off from what I would normally 889 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,840 expect even. And I look, I think the biggest 890 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:31,160 exemplar of that you're going to, if you feel the need to, in 891 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,520 year three of a coach, come out and say he's going to be back, 892 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,400 you obviously somebody has realized there's a problem. 893 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:42,520 Well, normally I think in that case, like there needs to be a 894 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,080 road map put out there by somebody like fans. 895 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,880 This is, this has not been a successful season. 896 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,800 We understand that. There's concerns. 897 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,640 We have full faith. Here's stuff that's being done. 898 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,080 Maybe that's coming at the end of the year if if the statement 899 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,560 on Wednesday was supposed. Yeah 'cause it's so much I like 900 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:01,880 you got MIL at the end of the. Year. 901 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:02,880 Well, that's. Well, no, you're right. 902 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,680 I mean, but but you know the idea that that statement that 903 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,360 came out Wednesday again with which wasn't a statement, it was 904 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,200 essentially just a message that was sent out to media saying 905 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,320 Mike Woodson's going to be back next year. 906 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,840 The idea if that if the idea behind that was that that was 907 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:23,120 going to tamp down the the angst and and the irritation that a 908 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,600 lot of fans both online and offline are expressing in the 909 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,360 apathy that has started to well up. 910 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,280 If that was the idea that that was going to fix that it's 911 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:37,200 actually had the opposite effect, especially coming so 912 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,800 proximally to Mcneely decommitting, you know, so 913 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,320 there's got to be something else. 914 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:50,440 And I just at this point, this is a weird thing to be watching. 915 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,200 And you know, you and I have covered IU basketball for over 916 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,640 15 years now doing this podcast. We've seen a lot of weird stuff. 917 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,480 You know, this is really starting to remind me of like 918 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,840 the the end of Davis's interim year or or that period of time 919 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,080 like an O four O 5 after Greenspan got hired where, you 920 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,480 know, it felt like the the train was leaving the station and they 921 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,440 were going to move on from Davis and then they didn't. 922 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,040 And you know what? The reason I bring those times 923 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,080 up is that there was a clear within Indiana Athletics and the 924 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,600 broader Indiana administrative landscape, historically 925 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,920 speaking, there was a lack of coherent planning and strategy, 926 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,840 you know, and at the time you got to remember, like you had 927 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,320 Miles Brand who was trying to grandstand his way into an Ivy 928 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,320 League job and firing Bob Knight was part of that. 929 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,480 But hiring Mike Davis was part of that too. 930 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,280 And kind of undercutting the existing power structure of the 931 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:46,880 athletic department was part of it. 932 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,040 And that's why a lot of those decisions that happened over 933 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,040 that 4-5 year span from like 2000 to 2005, you go back even 934 00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,600 extended out to when Samson got hired, like 2000 to 2007. 935 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,280 You look at it in papers like what the hell was going on 936 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,960 during that time. And you know, Indiana didn't 937 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,320 even have a full time athletic director during part of that 938 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,480 time after Michael nearly got fired. 939 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,200 No relation. And that, sorry, you're a fine, 940 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:11,920 Siri. Don't worry. 941 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,400 You know they end up bringing a vice president from elsewhere on 942 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,800 campus to come in and run athletics for like I think 18 943 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,280 months, you know? So, and the reason I bring all 944 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:25,320 that up is I can't remember a general vibe around IU athletics 945 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,120 being this disorganized, at least around basketball since 946 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,840 then. And it's it's so jarring coming 947 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,240 off of what happened with football, where it felt like 948 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:39,440 there was finally a clear vision about what IU Athletics wanted 949 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,680 Indiana football to be. And they went out and found a 950 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,720 guy who they could build around and they gave him financial 951 00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:48,360 resources. And obviously we have to see 952 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,480 what happens with IU football, but it feels like there's a 953 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,000 pathway towards success there. Here, like with basketball, it 954 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,960 just feels so disjointed. And so there's there's such 955 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,520 inconsistent philosophies right now, and it shines through in 956 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,720 what you're seeing on the floor. It shines through with the 957 00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:07,560 recruiting process. It shines through with the 958 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,080 reliance on the portal, which I never, I never thought of all 959 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,880 things IU would consciously choose to become a school that 960 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,320 relied on the portal to fill roster holes. 961 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,800 I mean, obviously not mean you're going to fill bits and 962 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,160 pieces as you can, but to fill this many potential roster holes 963 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,680 with Portal players, that just smacks of there's there's not a 964 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,960 clear consensus about what direction the program is going 965 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,640 and and so it's hard to even say, like are they taking it 966 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,680 seriously, 'cause I don't know who they is at this point. 967 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,720 It's fair and and you're not. You're right, this is a one of 968 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:43,880 the most awkward times we've had cloudy as to where we're going. 969 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,440 And it's it, you know, the two things are one, it's wild 970 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,240 because again, the whole idea with bringing back a former 971 00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:54,720 night player and somebody from that era was that you're going 972 00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:57,400 to bring some of that night lineage with you. 973 00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,280 And Night lineage is about you know building players developing 974 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,360 players, seeing people grow and having continuity and kind of a 975 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,960 system It it's it's wild none of that is happening and that we 976 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,440 are at this point with you know that was one of the selling 977 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,240 points of a of a night person. The other thing that I would say 978 00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:15,680 we'll have more time to talk about in the offseason, it's 979 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,000 just you know the, you know a lot of people are trying to find 980 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,800 you know what's the the positive way out if we lower expectations 981 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,160 for next year and this and that. I just I hate to be this guy but 982 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,040 I just want to lay out that like what is at the feet here too 983 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,480 that they could be going is like next year could be really funky 984 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,400 like could be really toxic. You already have fans who are 985 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,560 unhappy and voicing in an assembly hall. 986 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,520 And I I will tread lightly here, 'cause I I I don't I don't Boo 987 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,880 at games. I don't like booing players at 988 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,600 all. I think it's fair to kind of Boo 989 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:47,640 coaches. They're adults. 990 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,480 They get paid. It's fair to kind of Boo what 991 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,040 what you're seeing. I'm not a fan of booing players 992 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,280 even at the NBA level. I just don't it's not my style. 993 00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:00,200 That said, you know, I, I, I'm hopefully you can understand my 994 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,080 point of making it across like next year if you have, if you go 995 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,280 out and get seven or eight guys in the portal and things start 996 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,200 to go sour next year, it could get really toxic because people 997 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,080 are already annoyed. They're going to be like, hey 998 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,040 man, you had a chance to make a change last year, you didn't do 999 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,240 anything and now we're with this. 1000 00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,120 And then you know guys like, you know, Will Sheehy who had been 1001 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,560 around for four years, Yogi Ferrell, guys who you have a 1002 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,600 relationship with. You know, at least it's like, 1003 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:24,840 hey man, I'm pissed at what's going on. 1004 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,640 But like I love those guys on the floor. 1005 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,840 If you just have a bunch of guys who were just all new, just a 1006 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,120 whole, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's like it 1007 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,800 could just get really toxic really quickly. 1008 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,800 And it's just like this is as it's like half this podcast has 1009 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,600 been you and I kind of lamenting the break in the IU fan base 1010 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,600 between Davis and Knight. And then it's like did they do 1011 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,840 the right thing with Samson? And then it's like with Crean, 1012 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,040 it was coming back and then it became the pro Crean, anti Crean 1013 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,000 faction. It's like we continually find 1014 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,040 ways to fracture and break this fan base into different 1015 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,280 sections. It's almost like the spider man 1016 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:03,880 meme where like at some point we're going to come around like, 1017 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,680 whoa, are you pro knight? Anti queen pro Woodson are like, 1018 00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:11,160 Oh no, we're both, we're both anti Woodson, pro queen one 1019 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,640 like, anti knight, pro knight. Like it's like we we've broken 1020 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,280 into 35 different factions. But like I could see next year 1021 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,640 being another year where we just break the fan base in half 1022 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,080 again. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I 1023 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,320 would say that that was hyperbole or that you were 1024 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,840 overdoing it. If we hadn't already seen fans 1025 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,280 in the middle of February booing players, you know in the in the 1026 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,200 middle of a big 10 game that Indiana end up going on and 1027 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:41,560 losing it's man, I don't know. I I'm at a point right now where 1028 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,840 I'm. I'm fascinated by where things 1029 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,960 are currently AT. And again, like, if you've 1030 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,040 gotten tired of this conversation, I don't blame you. 1031 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,000 I'm kind of tired of talking about it because I don't know 1032 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,800 what I mean. Yeah. 1033 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,600 But so much of the problem has been like Indiana has continued 1034 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,960 to struggle to find the right fit. 1035 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,440 And if you listen to XS and Joes, which I recommend, 1036 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,400 everybody does. They spend so much time 1037 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,720 rightfully talking about the the actual successful programs. 1038 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,160 The Villanovas. The North Carolinas. 1039 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,640 The the the Kentucky's the, you know, the the Michigan's over 1040 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,440 the course of the last 15 years and and what they've done and 1041 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,080 what patterns have existed with the coaches that they've had and 1042 00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,160 the players that they've brought in and the way that those 1043 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,120 players have meshed together and that just isn't here and it 1044 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:33,560 hasn't been here for a while with IU and it can get solved. 1045 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,120 And there's the thing I think it's important to keep in mind, 1046 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,520 like college sports in particular, it's. 1047 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,760 Yes, there's there's certain program aspects that matter, but 1048 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,160 so much of it is about the coach. 1049 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,400 So much of it is about the coach's ability to understand 1050 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,320 the landscape, to navigate the different things you have to 1051 00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,800 navigate in terms of dealing with players, developing 1052 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,360 players, having a system together that's going to be 1053 00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,880 compatible with those players and also work in the larger 1054 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:08,960 framework of college basketball. And the, you know, a lot gets 1055 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,480 pinned on programs. This, you know, we've heard this 1056 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,520 about IU, like this program's over the hill. 1057 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,760 Or, you know, like it's no longer a special program. 1058 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:21,560 And it, you know, you can't with any intellectual honesty say 1059 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,960 that, oh, it's a program thing. When you can look around at all 1060 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,560 the programs that were in the dumps or had, you know, 1061 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,680 declined, who then hired the right coach and then things took 1062 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,480 off. Purdue's a great example. 1063 00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,000 Like Purdue basically abandoned their basketball program for 1064 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,160 five years at the turn of the century, and then they made the 1065 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:42,720 right hire. As it turned out. 1066 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,600 And with a couple of bad years in the middle, that's made 1067 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,800 Purdue as successful, if not more so than they were during 1068 00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,560 the Katy era. Villanova's another one. 1069 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,280 Villanova had success in the 80s. 1070 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,600 They tailed off. They were kind of in the pits in 1071 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,640 the in the early 2000s. They make their right hire, 1072 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,040 suddenly you're off. You can say the same thing about 1073 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,520 Virginia, you can say the same, there's there's several other 1074 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:08,400 programs that you can point to. And and so that's where this is 1075 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,960 where I think having the situation with Woodson is so 1076 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,120 difficult. And again we're talking about it 1077 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,720 because the universities thought that it was important enough 1078 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,880 that they had to come out and make a statement slash non 1079 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,800 statement that Woodson was going to be retained. 1080 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,000 So it's not like all of this stuff is just being invented. 1081 00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,040 But you know this is where having a former player who's got 1082 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,640 a lot of NBA head coaching experience is just a it's a 1083 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,880 difficult thing to try to parse because it's hard to look at the 1084 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,800 results and the trajectory. More importantly, and I think 1085 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,000 it's, I think it's the, you can look at the results this year 1086 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,520 and it's one data point, but the trajectory as it's currently on 1087 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:47,400 paper and the problems that have contributed to this season and 1088 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,920 why it hasn't been as successful, it's hard to 1089 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,680 reconcile that with a clear vision of success. 1090 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,760 And at the end of it, it, it really does come back to whoever 1091 00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,520 the head person is and what they're doing. 1092 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,360 And again, we have that example here at IU with Terry Moran. 1093 00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,720 You know, if you were following like Indiana women's basketball 1094 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,640 was a nothing program and you know, Kurt Miller did some good 1095 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:11,520 things to kind of get the beginnings going. 1096 00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,880 But Terry Moran's taking it to an entirely different level and 1097 00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,080 has had this sustained pattern of success over the last six 1098 00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,760 seasons. And that I think illustrates the 1099 00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,080 point. Is that still a possibility 1100 00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,080 under Mike Woodson? Maybe, but it seems 1101 00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:32,480 progressively less likely in terms of the, the, the, the 1102 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,560 pieces that are currently there, the pieces that we know are 1103 00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,320 coming in, the pieces we know have to come in. 1104 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,960 And the examples that have been given to us over the course of 1105 00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,400 the first three seasons in terms of how these things are likely 1106 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,960 to be managed. And so I think if you're an IU 1107 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,480 fan who thinks that Woodson deserves a fourth year, that's 1108 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,720 fine. But I would recommend that 1109 00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,560 perhaps you think about, OK, what are the metrics of success 1110 00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:01,640 that Indiana should be focusing on and how is how is this coach 1111 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,320 and this staff addressing those in a way that seems like 1112 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,280 tangible progress? If you're someone who thinks 1113 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,280 that a change needs to be made, I think you've probably crossed 1114 01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,120 a threshold where it's, as you said earlier, going to be hard 1115 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,800 to bring you back. It's and and that does create 1116 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:21,120 the fishers in the fan base that you just referred to that are 1117 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,280 real hard to fix. I mean, when a lot of people 1118 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,160 lost faith in Cream about halfway through the 1415 season 1119 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,040 and it never got repaired, even with a Big Ten title and a Sweet 1120 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,400 16 appearance. And that does not seem like a 1121 01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,280 likely scenario for next year for this particular program at 1122 01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,720 this particular point in time. It's a good point that you make. 1123 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,280 I and it's something that unfortunately Indiana's just 1124 01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,480 kind of stuck with now. Yeah, I mean I I think at that 1125 01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,200 point we're, yeah, I I think we're kind of belabouring all 1126 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,600 points at this point. But it's a it's it's it's a 1127 01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:00,560 bummer and you know it's this was you know you and I talked 1128 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,360 about it last year that it's it's great to go out big game 1129 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,160 hunting and I'm happy they tried and I think it's good and it's 1130 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,400 something that Indiana is this the you know the take away from 1131 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,520 this shouldn't be all right we got to be gonna go out for five 1132 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,840 stars Like no you you can continue to do this You just 1133 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,400 need to have backup plans and you know then you also need to 1134 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:24,560 again I I have no idea nor do I care Like you know why Mcneely 1135 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,800 did what you know decided to decommit what his reasoning was. 1136 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:33,920 But you know once you commit Mcneely you know this isn't I 1137 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,760 just continue to use the NBA because that's where Woodson 1138 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,240 come from and it seems to be where a lot of his philosophies 1139 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,640 still evolved from. It's like this isn't the NBA 1140 01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,200 where like once you sign you know once you sign Carmelo to an 1141 01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,360 offer sheet like he's going to be here next year. 1142 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,840 Like you know the the you can decommit from these things. 1143 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,880 Like are you continuing to keep touch with this Mcneely 1144 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,880 throughout the year. I'm I'm assuming they did but 1145 01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,000 they obviously didn't do enough or he didn't like what he was 1146 01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:04,960 seeing and or hearing because he is now decommitted and and so 1147 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,280 but all of that said it's like you got to have a plan BI think 1148 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,360 that's where you and I you know this shot across the bow 1149 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,920 yesterday was like all right well whatever was left of plan A 1150 01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:19,120 is gone and it's too late to get Plan B in because there is no 1151 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,360 more recruiting. And you really don't have time 1152 01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,640 to do that because you know now you got to hit the portal hard 1153 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,840 And so you know we we shall see but it's going to take and you 1154 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,320 know the last thing I will say is like it's it's going to take 1155 01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,880 a maniacal amount of work to get this done. 1156 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,480 You know when you look at this like you're you're looking at, 1157 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,320 you know there are 10 players coming back for next year. 1158 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,040 One of those is Khalil Ware who who should go to the NBA. 1159 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,120 Like anybody who says, oh, maybe Ware wants to come back like no, 1160 01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,800 Ware should be going to the NBA. So you effectively have nine 1161 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,960 players coming back. One of those is Caleb Banks, who 1162 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:56,880 I I'm assuming is still a player on the. 1163 01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,920 He was he. He came in at the end of the 1164 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:00,760 Minnesota game. We actually saw him on the 1165 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,840 floor. So yeah, I was, I was pushing a 1166 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,440 103 fever that night. So I'm. 1167 01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,120 I'm not sure, but so. All right, great. 1168 01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,600 So so we we can count on him for two minutes. 1169 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,880 We're up by 20 but you have you know him and CJ Gunn and Caleb 1170 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,400 Sparks or or Peyton Sparks are three of those players who who 1171 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,720 are barely playing in games. So you're down to like 6 players 1172 01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,240 so you need to get you know six or seven players. 1173 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,440 It it's just it's a lot of work to be done. 1174 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:29,480 You have you have to start short shoring up 2024-2025 recruiting. 1175 01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,360 You probably need to make a couple of staff changes. 1176 01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:38,400 Like this is a a ton of work for a coach who has has made some 1177 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:42,200 good strides, made some good portal moves, but doesn't 1178 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,200 doesn't always give off the appearance that he's burning the 1179 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,360 the candle on both ends at all times. 1180 01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:49,680 That's just going to have to change. 1181 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,480 This is going to have to be the hardest he's ever worked or the 1182 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,880 most strategic he's ever worked in in college basketball. 1183 01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,720 And he's got to figure it out. He's got to figure it out 1184 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,720 unbelievably quick because I think the portal now is like 45 1185 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,000 days, right? Yeah, it's, it's 15 days less 1186 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,400 than it than it than it has been in the past. 1187 01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:09,280 And so that's. Right. 1188 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,440 The last thing I know, I'm cutting you off. 1189 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,360 Like the last thing is, you know, for those who are not 1190 01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,640 fully engaged in the portal, it's like the idea that just, 1191 01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,480 you know, all of the portal doesn't start until the end of 1192 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:20,520 the year and we'll just wait till then. 1193 01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,840 It's like, I'm assuming half of the guys have already who are 1194 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,040 going to be in the portal already have a good idea of 1195 01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,440 where they're going. Like there's already 1196 01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,280 conversations going play it. Players have agents now like the 1197 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,840 the all the rules are out the windows like it is, it is all 1198 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,600 free games. So the idea that it's like, oh, 1199 01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,160 we'll just wait till the end of the year and figure this out, 1200 01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,480 like all of these discussions are already happening. 1201 01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,680 So it's kind of like we don't know it yet, but I think the die 1202 01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,200 is already cast as to whether we're going to win or not in the 1203 01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,200 portal. Yeah, I know I and it goes both 1204 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:50,840 ways. And you know, if Indiana's been 1205 01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:52,960 doing their due diligence, they've been reaching out as 1206 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,400 well. And look, magic can happen. 1207 01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,840 But I think that there is justifiable concern from fans 1208 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,240 who are looking at a roster where you're going to lose your 1209 01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,200 most productive player regardless. 1210 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,520 You're going to lose. The point guard that the head 1211 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,240 coach has now multiple times said is the linchpin to 1212 01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,440 everything. And you're you don't have a 1213 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,840 recruit, you have no recruits coming in, you have no four year 1214 01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,120 or Mcneely was going to be a four year player, but you have 1215 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:26,040 no freshman coming in and you're going to rely on essentially 1216 01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,560 trying to get people to come here again to play in an offense 1217 01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,960 that isn't very attractive unless you are a post player. 1218 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:41,240 And that is, that is daunting for any fan who's try. 1219 01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,880 And And again, IU fans are not unreasonable. 1220 01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,160 There are entire message boards, entire websites devoted solely 1221 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,640 to recruiting and the idea that you just focus on the team 1222 01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,000 that's on the floor. That hasn't been college fandom 1223 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,600 for decades now. It's about the recruiting 1224 01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:57,960 process. It's about who's in the 1225 01:05:57,960 --> 01:05:59,760 pipeline. It's about how those players are 1226 01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:05,640 developing and that there's there's such little to grab 1227 01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,720 onto. If you're an IU fan in those 1228 01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,840 areas that yeah, you're at a point where what do you do? 1229 01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,840 You're just kind of you're you're you're you're again, 1230 01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,760 you're being told to just sit there and and trust in the 1231 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,760 process which is probably going to lead to some angst on the 1232 01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,920 part of a bunch of people. Anyway, let's go ahead and wrap 1233 01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,560 up. We'll see what happens Senior 1234 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,720 Day coming up on Sunday, and apparently other than Xavier 1235 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:33,600 Johnson, we don't know who is walking. 1236 01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,400 Mike Woodson, in His press availability on Friday, said 1237 01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,920 that he hadn't had a conversation with Trey Galloway 1238 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,960 or Anthony Leal yet about whether they were going to be 1239 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,360 taking part. Which to be fair, Chloe Moore 1240 01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:50,320 McNeil on the women's side also waited until she made that 1241 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,080 decision. Like right before the Senior Day 1242 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,480 for women's basketball. But still, given the general 1243 01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:02,760 concern around everything, it would be nice to have a clearer 1244 01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,280 sense of what to expect, you know, even just out of Senior 1245 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,760 Day, let alone the rest of things for IU basketball moving 1246 01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,120 forward. And I don't say that from my 1247 01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:13,240 perspective, I'm not on anything, but if you're fans, I 1248 01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,760 think you're probably like, I'd like to know a little bit more 1249 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,440 about what's going on moving forward because I'd like to know 1250 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,360 how to feel. I have one last question. 1251 01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:26,040 Like it it feels like it's 17 and 13 we're we're going to be 1252 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,160 getting an NIT berth or or possibly in the NIT like our 1253 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:30,920 we're. We're still on the outside of 1254 01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:32,840 NIT Bracketology. Really. 1255 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,120 So you you don't you don't see us hosting a game and having to 1256 01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,120 deal with funky, funky vibes at A at an Assembly Hall NIT game? 1257 01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,200 I mean, is it possible, you sure. 1258 01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:45,360 I mean if Indiana, if they beat Michigan State, they might move 1259 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:47,400 into a position where they could host a game. 1260 01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,920 But I mean if you're on the, if you're on the lower edges of the 1261 01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,200 bubble in the NIT, you'd probably be going somewhere else 1262 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,000 where they would host. But it's it's certainly 1263 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,600 possible. If you're asking if Indiana 1264 01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,160 would turn down another NIT, I'm not asking that. 1265 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:04,760 I'm just, I'm just like, I'm wondering if you know Siri, Siri 1266 01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,160 does not want, no. Just going nuts today with this 1267 01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:08,040 we. Don't need to. 1268 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:10,040 Let's let's wait until we get through the Big Ten term. 1269 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,360 I don't know. I just it's more like you know 1270 01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,800 what the vibes would feel like for that it's I'm with you, man. 1271 01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:19,319 I I don't remember a time that have been kind of this this odd 1272 01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:23,640 for vibes. It's a weird time, so I was just 1273 01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,399 thinking like an A home NIT game would probably be a really 1274 01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:31,760 another weird experience. Yeah, I mean, let's I I would 1275 01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:33,960 prefer to pass on that experience, if at all. 1276 01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,359 I didn't. I didn't go to the NIT games 1277 01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:42,439 back in what was it, 819? It just, I wasn't here that that 1278 01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,160 spring break. So that was part of the reason. 1279 01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,200 But yeah, those tend to be kind of odd experiences to say the 1280 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,920 least. So maybe maybe would be best for 1281 01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,000 all involved if that didn't happen, but we'll see anyway. 1282 01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:54,399 All right, we'll go ahead and wrap up. 1283 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,920 Thanks to Scott, and thanks to all of you for listening in. 1284 01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,760 We'll we'll catch you folks on the flip side, bring back the 1285 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:02,720 Bison. So long, everybody.