1 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,040 And welcome back to Crimson Cast Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield 2 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,520 joining you Sunday, August 10th, our record date. 3 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,920 And we're not talking IU football or IU basketball, at 4 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,640 least not directly on this one, although we'll have a couple of 5 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,760 quick mentions of both very shortly. 6 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,720 But first, Scott, happy weekend. It's almost over now, 7 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,800 unfortunately, but. Sunday afternoon, you can't wish 8 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,200 me happy weekend. We're almost done. 9 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,360 Wow, it's still part of the weekend. 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,120 I mean. Could I, I mean, if I wish you 11 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,960 on Friday afternoon, good weekend, you'd be like, oh, 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,000 thanks, but it's in the weekend. You have a problem with that? 13 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,560 I wouldn't wish you good week on Friday afternoon, but no, we 14 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,519 are, We're, we're getting there. We have like two or three more 15 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:08,040 weekends without football and then and then it just starts. 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,160 It's. Solid football. 17 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,320 You got NFL. It's coming. 18 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,000 It's one more weekend without football because the first 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,400 'cause this upcoming the weekend of the 17th, the 16th, 17th. 20 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,400 No football, but Kansas State and IO State are heading to 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:29,160 Dublin to play in Farmageddon in Ireland on the 23rd. 22 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,960 So we're not the 23rd. The, the, the, yeah, the 23rd, 23 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:36,640 yeah, it's gets right around the corner. 24 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,560 So it is really close. And of course, IU football 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,640 starts on the 30th and then the NFL starts a couple weeks after 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,960 that. So it's all it's upon us, my 27 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:47,040 friend. Yeah, the dog days of summer are 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:48,440 almost over. Yeah, so. 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,560 We are of course going to be here throughout the entirety of 30 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,400 August talking about IU football. 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:57,920 Got some new shows launching as well. 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,840 We did want to remind you folks if you didn't hear the 33 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:04,160 announcement before, we announced finally that we are 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,039 going to be doing a live podcast from the Buskirk Chumley Theater 35 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,840 on Friday, September 5th. Doors at 6:30 and the show 36 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,920 starts at 7:00. We'll be up for about an hour 37 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:17,760 and a half. Planning on having some guests, 38 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,040 going to talk football, going to have AQ and A with the audience 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,480 going to have try to just a fun evening all the way around. 40 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,640 Hopefully at that point, celebrating a big win the 41 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:32,160 previous weekend against Old Dominion and we'll be previewing 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,440 not just the Kennesaw State game. 43 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,720 I would hope so, yes. But also we'll be previewing the 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,160 rest of the season talking about where IU football sits and how 45 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,080 things are looking across the country. 46 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,080 Tickets are on sale right now. There'll be a link to that at 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,840 the bottom of the video or the podcast, wherever you're 48 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,880 watching or listening to it. It's it tickets about 15 1/2 49 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,400 dollars a pop and that helps to go support the Buskirk Tremley 50 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,640 Theatre and we hope that you will take advantage of that. 51 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:04,200 We've already had some ticket sales, which is nice and we love 52 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:05,920 to see you folks out there. If you're going to be in 53 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,560 Bloomington or if you're already in Bloomington and you'd like to 54 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,360 come join us again, Buskirk Tremley Theatre, Friday, 55 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,040 September 5th, doors at 6:30, podcast at 7:00 and we'll have 56 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,440 a, a meet and greet somewhere in town immediately afterwards. 57 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:20,680 We're looking forward to seeing you folks. 58 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,920 For anybody going in the first couple rows, I mean, we haven't 59 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:25,040 really planned out what we're doing yet, but I don't think 60 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,880 it's going to be a Gallagher style concert where we're 61 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,440 smashing watermelons and stuff. So should be good. 62 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,800 No poncho's needed. You're good. 63 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,960 Early mid 80s, no reference to comedy, you reference Gallagher. 64 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:42,040 I mean, wow, we have a special guest. 65 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Maybe. Maybe Gallagher will be there. 66 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,600 Don't know. You're bringing the Yakov. 67 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,280 Smirnoff out after that. I mean, what's going on? 68 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,760 Wow, in Russia they pay me to do concerts. 69 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,640 Yes, yes, and. And and yeah. 70 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,080 Whatever. Anyway, quick reminder also we 71 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,920 are brought to you here on Crimson Cast and the rest of the 72 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,440 back home network by Home Field Apparel and they have a new box 73 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,040 of IU apparel that's out. And you can order it and it 74 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,200 looks amazing. Be sure to do the what? 75 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,160 All the logos. Like all the logos, The Platinum 76 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,640 box for 2025, it's ready for you folks. 77 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,040 You can go order it right now and have it shipped to you by 78 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,160 the start of football season. And if you haven't ordered from 79 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,040 home field yet, use the code home 23. 80 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,680 Get 15% off your first order Home field. apparel.com, proud 81 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,240 sponsor for the Back Home network. 82 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,240 All right, Scott, this is Part 2 of a podcast that we started 83 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,480 about a month ago and there may be a Part 3 as well, but we 84 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,880 wanted to try to. Wrap up the loose edges or 85 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,880 loose. Ends from the summer because, 86 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,360 you know, we have several podcasts. 87 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,680 There's actually 1 floating podcast that we're still 88 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,640 planning on doing, which will hopefully be next weekend. 89 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,960 So keep an eye out for that. But we talked about the 90 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,920 foundations of youth sports in the United States and we talked 91 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:04,480 about the way that that has manifested itself over the 92 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,040 course of time, what's changing how the system works, why the 93 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,040 system is the way it is. And so if you haven't had a 94 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,840 chance, I'd recommend going back and listening to that podcast 95 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:18,440 from a few weeks ago. I'll drop a link in the sub 96 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,360 stack or I'll also have a link in the YouTube. 97 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,200 But I got a lot of comments from people, Scott, who had started 98 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,840 listening to that or listen to the whole thing. 99 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,920 And they were like, wow, I'm glad you guys are tackling this. 100 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,120 This is a really fascinating topic. 101 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,960 It's, it is really interesting to think about how much youth 102 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,840 sports touches so many people's lives amongst our audience. 103 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,440 It's either you were participant in youth sports and so you've 104 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:48,640 got a clear memory of how that was, or you're a parent that's 105 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,160 got children in youth sports, or you're like me and you research 106 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,520 these things and you try to figure out like how it fits into 107 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,920 the larger fabric of society. And so on the last podcast, what 108 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,640 we talked about was essentially how we got to the position that 109 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,920 we're at and a lot of the examples of, you know, why the 110 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,040 current system might not be great, but it also might not be 111 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,040 the worst thing in the world that it's not optimized. 112 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,400 But we're also concerned about the direction that it's headed. 113 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,160 So I guess coming out of that first episode, was there 114 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,040 anything that really stuck out to you as you had been 115 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,200 reflecting on it before we get into some of your particular 116 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,920 experiences thus far as being someone on the parenting side of 117 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,600 this whole structure? Just just kind of thinking about 118 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,840 how singularly unique the college athletic experience or 119 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,280 the college athletic infrastructure is in the US and 120 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:43,680 how it it's really, you know, we are the aberration out there, 121 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,760 not the norm that, you know, most other most other countries 122 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,840 have some kind of professionalized sports system 123 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:54,120 or, you know, I'll reference a couple times like, you know, 124 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,640 Norway, I think they had a piece on, you know, real sports about 125 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,480 this years ago. But you know, they other 126 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,760 countries have other ways of doing things where they try and 127 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,400 keep it fun, but also trained. We're really the only one to 128 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,120 kind of tie academics and where you go to school with athletics 129 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,600 at such a young age. And so that that's the kind of 130 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,800 what I was thinking back on is just how it's kind of like us 131 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,920 using our own, you know, measuring system. 132 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,800 We're just we're kind of out in, in the wilderness, on our own in 133 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,640 the world. Yes. 134 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,240 And it's, it's fascinating to think about because as we talked 135 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:34,120 about before, using education as a barrier essentially to team 136 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,960 athletic participation is a very uniquely American thing. 137 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:43,600 And it almost feels like it. It highlights how we approached 138 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,400 it as a society. And it's interesting watching 139 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,160 the US kind of pull apart from that a little bit and discover 140 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,880 that that system made things kind of neat and tidy. 141 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,960 But it also left a lot of things on the table that we probably 142 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,320 shouldn't have left on the table. 143 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,240 And I think there's a reckoning that's coming at some point in 144 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,760 terms of how we need to be thinking about that. 145 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,360 So to catch everybody up on that aspect of things. 146 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,600 In case you missed that first episode, it's a misconception. 147 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,040 I think in a lot of cases for us to consider education and 148 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,880 athletics as needing to be closely tied to one another. 149 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360 But for most Americans, that is the only way we've come to think 150 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:25,800 about it. And as we talked about on that 151 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,720 previous show, when you are an athlete at the high school 152 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,080 level, even that phraseology indicates some kind of a 153 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,400 pre-existing educational experience that goes along with 154 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,159 you playing sports. And that's a really odd thing 155 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:47,040 because as we talked about in Europe and elsewhere where they 156 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,480 have this Academy style system, there's school offered, but the 157 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:56,080 focus is on developing your athletic ability, developing 158 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,840 your skill set, and putting you down a trajectory where we find 159 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,720 out if you really can be an elite athlete or not. 160 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,000 And what ends up happening in the United States is that 161 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,520 because there's such a close tie between academics and athletics, 162 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,920 you end up pushing a whole bunch of people off the table first in 163 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,880 high school because some people just do not do well academically 164 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,680 in high school. They never make grades. 165 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,960 And then further at the college level. 166 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,400 And this is where I think it's important for us to keep in mind 167 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,880 with the team sports with primarily football and 168 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,160 basketball. And I mean, those are really the 169 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,320 two main ones when you get to the USI mean, there are other 170 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,040 team sports, obviously, but most of them do not have a pathway 171 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,600 that lies directly through college and high school soccer 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,800 maybe a little bit in the US. And that in and of itself is 173 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,200 something we need to talk about later. 174 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:52,920 But only 62% of high school graduates in the US enroll in 175 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,800 college at all. And the number of people that 176 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,120 get a degree in college is significantly lower than that. 177 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,280 It's only about 35% of Americans aged 25 and older hold a 178 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,960 bachelor's degree. So think about that. 179 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,880 That means 4 out of every 10 people never go to college. 180 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,880 And if you think about the athletic ability of people, 181 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,320 often times some of our most athletically gifted people are 182 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,040 people who don't necessarily have the intellectual capacity 183 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,640 or the wherewithal to survive in what we currently classify as 184 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,080 the college environment or may not have the money to be able to 185 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,560 go. You know, there's so many 186 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:37,960 elements to education that are completely decoupled from 187 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,080 athletic ability. And yet that has been the way 188 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,800 that the US has metered this out. 189 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,520 And you think about the number of basketball players we've 190 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,400 heard rumor, you know, the, the, the famous open courts at Rucker 191 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,480 Park and elsewhere in, in New York and other urban areas where 192 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,000 you'd have players that just didn't go to school because it 193 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,160 wasn't important in their families or because they had 194 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,680 flunked out or, or something, you know, legendary types of 195 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,360 athletes who never got to play team sports because of the 196 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,560 routing that you have here. And it's always been fascinating 197 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:10,800 to me to contrast that, especially in basketball, but 198 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,920 also in football with what occurs in, say, baseball, where 199 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,560 a similar kind of thing happens. Like it's very difficult to go 200 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,160 get into the minor leagues unless you've at least played in 201 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,360 high school, even if you've got a, a, a Legion team or an AU 202 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,200 team, you're playing. And yet Major League Baseball 203 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,640 regularly traffics in drafting and developing players from 204 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,480 Latin America, often whom don't have, you know, higher education 205 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,960 development or education development above like the 7th 206 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,880 or 8th grade. And and that's even, that's kind 207 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,760 of an equivalency. That's that's odd. 208 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,640 And it's like, well, it's fine there. 209 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,720 We don't mind that, but we do mind it happening within our own 210 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,000 country. That points to a real odd 211 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,760 psychological aspect of the way that we think about these 212 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,400 things. I don't know if we're actually 213 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,840 seeing a lot of progress made, Scott, in terms of that, that 214 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,720 perception changing, but I think it's important people understand 215 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,240 that it's there and it's very different from what you see 216 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,640 elsewhere. I look at the perception 217 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,960 changing in this and that, like the 70s and 80s when you and I 218 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,800 were growing up and previous to that, you know, everything you 219 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,720 said about, you know, some people's inability to get to 220 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,160 college is true. But you know, the athletic 221 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,000 scholarship was looked at as like, all right, well, this is 222 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,840 the key to allow somebody to get the education that they're not 223 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,320 going to be able to get. And like you go to college and 224 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,120 that was always nice things that you don't get your name in the 225 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,160 locker until you graduate. And there's, there's all these 226 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,320 kind of, you know, fun stories of guys who, you know, the the 227 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,160 few who left early, like they would go back years later and 228 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,520 get their degree. And at the time, you know, like 229 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,720 John Thompson, Bob Knight, there's a lot of coaches, you 230 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,600 know, John Cheney at Temple who preach this. 231 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,280 You know, we want guys to stay four years, not just because I 232 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,680 want them to play four years, but because I want them to get 233 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:50,760 their degree. And I want, you know, there's 234 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,080 more to life than basketball. There's going to be more and 235 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,960 over the last 30, you know, to to a point where we're at now 236 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,400 where that is morphed, where everyone's just like, oh, you 237 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,160 should leave early. Like that's dumb to stay in 238 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,960 college. Like you should leave and go to 239 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,880 the pros. And like, as you were talking 240 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,320 about the number of, you know, people who have a degree, most 241 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,200 people in the NBA don't or at least they didn't get it while 242 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,240 they were in college. Most players in the NBA did not 243 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,760 stay all four years and in fact, frowned upon. 244 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,800 And very rarely do you hear that case anymore of you should stay 245 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,240 in college all four years to get that degree. 246 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,200 It's if if anything else, you should stay in college to keep 247 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,600 the NIL money. And it's become just so about 248 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,800 the money, which I'm not saying right or wrong, just it is a 249 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,320 much different viewpoint. And I would I don't know the 250 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,560 numbers. This is more for you. 251 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:40,800 I think that the number of players in the NBA, you know, 252 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,720 the average career length probably hasn't changed since 253 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,960 the 80s. So it's like the the odds of you 254 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,120 going in college two years and then, you know, making enough 255 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,600 money to live forever out of the NBA is probably still the same 256 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,920 percentage now as it was then. But yet we don't seem to Care 257 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,160 now about people who go to college, just don't get a degree 258 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,080 and then go to the NBA. Well, I will say, I don't know 259 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,480 if it's that we don't care as much as it's like, should we 260 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,760 care? And, and this becomes kind of 261 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,680 interesting. It's an interesting 262 00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:13,720 philosophical question about how Americans view this versus how 263 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,240 Europeans view it and others. But it's also it sounds callous 264 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,280 to say, well, what what exactly is it about the athlete that we 265 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,920 should care about in terms of them getting an education when 266 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,480 we don't care about that for the drop out who doesn't have 267 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,640 athletic skill in high school? That's what I always found 268 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,440 fascinating about this mentality. 269 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,560 Now, some of it and what you were talking about with Bob 270 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,080 Knight, John Cheney, they were raised in a an era where it was 271 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,880 like you have an opportunity to go get, you know, an advanced 272 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,080 degree at a time when that was still very unusual. 273 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,560 And we talked about this on the last show, the. 274 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:55,160 It wasn't until the GI Bill started to get cashed in that 275 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,080 enrollments at higher education institutions skyrocketed across 276 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:00,120 the country. That's when I. 277 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,760 Think we talked about like IU didn't clear the 10,000 student 278 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,440 enrollment barrier until the mid 1940s. 279 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,800 Like after World War 2 ended. This used to be something that 280 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,760 only the elite participated in. It used to be something that was 281 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,400 not for the vast majority of people because most jobs in the 282 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:23,000 US didn't require that level of, you know, of education. 283 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,000 And it's ironic because now it's not just athletes where you're 284 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,280 starting to hear less of a concern about this, but it's 285 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,560 also this entire anti college or college is not worth the money 286 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,840 and you should go to trade school and become a plumber or 287 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,200 an electrician. Nothing. 288 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,720 I mean, again, that's nothing against plumbers, electricians, 289 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,320 but you weren't hearing that rhetoric 303540 years ago. 290 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,040 All you were hearing was you need to go to college because 291 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:54,400 college was this guarantor of, you know, economic success that 292 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,880 you just couldn't get if you were working a blue collar job. 293 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,200 And it was something aspirational. 294 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,640 It's become a lot less so. And it is interesting that it's 295 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,880 now starting to hit athletics because it's also hitting other 296 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,120 areas. But this is where and the reason 297 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,480 why I wanted to reset us on that is it's fascinating because I 298 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,160 don't. Think. 299 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,800 There's been quite the realization that when you pull 300 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,080 up that thread of we're going to decouple education from 301 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,800 athletics in the United States, you're suddenly confronted with 302 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,400 a lot of problems in terms of development for athletes at high 303 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,240 levels that can compete at a global rate in a bunch of 304 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,760 different sports, not just the team sports. 305 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,600 Because of how central higher education and to some degree 306 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,920 secondary education have been to the development of athletes. 307 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,920 Because there really isn't another way of doing it. 308 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,120 And what I mean by all of that is basically this. 309 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,080 You've got a circumstance right now in basketball, as we talked 310 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,960 about last time, where NBA teams will often look overseas, even 311 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,880 college teams. IU just signed two guys from, 312 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,280 you know, one from Serbia, one from Bosnia who look pretty 313 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,960 skilled, will probably get a chance to play professional 314 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,560 basketball somewhere, whether it's the NBA or a lower level. 315 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,680 They're, you know, they've developed effectively and 316 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,800 clearly they are academically sound enough that they can get 317 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,960 in to an institution of higher learning at the at the pro 318 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,280 level. You've got players getting 319 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,160 drafted in from overseas pretty regularly. 320 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:30,360 And that should be, I think, an increasing warning sign to not 321 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,400 just colleges and universities in the US, but the entire 322 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,120 basketball system in the US. Because when you compare that to 323 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,240 the United States's clear issues with competing on the 324 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,520 international stage in soccer and the fact that it's not just 325 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,520 a fait accompli, that in the Olympics or elsewhere, you're 326 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,960 just going to be among the best in what you do or win a gold 327 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,640 medal if you're an American. It just shows like the rest of 328 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,480 the world in many cases has caught up. 329 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,880 And now the US finds itself in this weird spot where youth 330 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:05,680 sports becomes in need of reform because of the training process 331 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,320 is needed to maintain the level of dominance that the US has 332 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,080 gotten used to historically. Well, in a way, the universities 333 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,280 and high schools kind of served as almost like the, the public 334 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,000 good for, for, for, for athletic training. 335 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,440 Like it was like a Police Department or a fire department. 336 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,200 It was like the, the public good. 337 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,160 They, they did it where you would have these one off sports 338 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,840 like tennis was just, you know, you would send your kids down to 339 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,800 ballitaries camp and it was like a for profit enterprise. 340 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:36,160 And I'm not saying that's bad, but that is where, you know, 341 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,280 corruption and bad things can start to come. 342 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,800 And that was just like, you want to go to tennis, you had to go 343 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,720 to Florida, you had to go there when you were 12, you had to 344 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,160 drop out of school and you had to pay Bullet Terry a ton of 345 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,360 money. And we'll see like no 346 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,200 guarantees. And in a weird way, we're kind 347 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,280 of moving toward that across the board because as you decouple 348 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,760 these things, you know, and this is probably off the, you know, 349 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,480 but this is like the the US, you know, Olympic training was so 350 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,840 tied into the universities. As you decouple these, you get 351 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:09,360 the youth sports industry, which it is now you know, it, it's 352 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,120 tough because like the the other model had its own issues too 353 00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:13,880 when you connected it with education. 354 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,480 But on the flip side, the youth sports model like, hey, you're 355 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,560 going to do travel teams, You're just going to play basketball 12 356 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,400 months a year. We're just going to continually, 357 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,720 you know, use this as a, as a money maker, but also a trainer, 358 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,160 but kind of more of a money maker. 359 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,840 And there's good teams, there's bad teams, and you got to travel 360 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,440 a bunch and you might have to spend a ton of money. 361 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,680 And it almost limits the ability of people like you're you're 362 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,640 back to the point where it's like the guys at Rutgers Park. 363 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,560 To your original analogy, it's like Rucker. 364 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,240 Rucker Park, Scott. Makes me out of four. 365 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,320 I do love, I do love the alternate scenario where it's 366 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,800 actually Rutgers Park and it's a bunch of guys in New Jersey 367 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,240 playing basketball with each other. 368 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,560 But please go ahead. Why is why are the games not as 369 00:19:53,560 --> 00:20:00,480 good as what I've been hearing about where was Oh, but but it's 370 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,240 you know, you they are now kind of eliminated from that travel 371 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,080 team set up and it's becoming again back just kind of, you 372 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,800 know, high level, the elites of just people who have a ton of 373 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,720 money, the ability to travel. And it's like, again, this is 374 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,000 kind of AUS thing. We we can't find middle, we 375 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,840 can't find middle ground. We're always going just. 376 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,800 Polarity to polarity. Well, and this is where to some 377 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,880 degree, there's a lot of different things colliding at 378 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,000 once. And this is where I wanted to 379 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,840 get into the parent discussion. But you hit an economic point 380 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,920 that I think has to predicate all of this. 381 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,600 You mentioned that real sports video that was showcasing what 382 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,960 was it? That was it the, the complex up 383 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,600 by where you live. And there was another real 384 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,600 sports excavation of this, I think about six or seven years 385 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,200 ago about a similar kind of youth sports park in Columbus, 386 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,480 OH. And what you'll note and, and 387 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,680 what gets talked about in that Columbus, OH piece, or maybe it 388 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,400 was Dublin, OH, it was one of the suburbs of Ohio, is they 389 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,920 talked to the guy who's running it and he basically is like, 390 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,000 well, we're doing this as a service for people that can 391 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,200 afford to pay. It is essentially, you know, the 392 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,520 message and, and that actually concerns him because he knows 393 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,440 that there are all of these children who don't have the 394 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,040 financial means to pay. And what's interesting is if you 395 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,720 think about education as a barrier for athletic 396 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,920 participation, economic barriers work in much the same way that 397 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,880 academic barriers do. Because there's a pretty clear 398 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,680 correlation in most cases between a child's socioeconomic 399 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,880 circumstance that they grow up in through their parents, or 400 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,440 maybe they don't have parents in the house and they're being 401 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,200 raised by a family member and their ability to have decent 402 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,920 enough academic achievement to be able to stay in school and 403 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,040 participate. And when you don't have that, 404 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,720 and especially when you see that, you know, 40% of the 405 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,000 population wasn't isn't going to college and never has. 406 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,640 Well, that shows 40% of the population off the map. 407 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,120 Well, this is a similar kind of thing where if you have the 408 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,480 means, your child can participate. 409 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,720 What's fascinating is historically, at least over the 410 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,360 last 20 years, the way this developed was if you have a son 411 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,440 who you think might be good enough to play a sport that 412 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,360 could get them a scholarship at a college, or if you have a 413 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,920 daughter who you think would be good enough in volleyball or 414 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,560 softball. You look at it as an investment 415 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,600 that's worth the potential pay off. 416 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,360 Even if it doesn't work out, 'cause if you can get a 417 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,200 scholarship even to a smaller school, what you've gotten 418 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,800 college paid for. And that's a huge economic 419 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,840 burden that you don't have to deal with. 420 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,440 But for the people who can't afford those things, 421 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,400 increasingly and almost universally now, there's no 422 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,520 alternative. One of the things in the real 423 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,520 sports piece from from six or seven years ago, if you go to 424 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,120 the municipal playgrounds or parks where kids used to play 425 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,040 regularly, even when we were in school, like back in the 80s and 426 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,880 certainly before that, most of them are in disrepair. 427 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,760 Most of them have had budgets slashed. 428 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,960 Most of them don't have people attending to them. 429 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,440 They're unsafe. They're often times in drug 430 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,520 infested neighborhoods or in just unsafe neighborhoods. 431 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,560 And So what it creates is essentially a further winnowing 432 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,360 of who can participate in sports. 433 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,200 And while that works in a closed system where you don't have 434 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,040 outside competition from other societies, what it does is in 435 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,560 the sports like soccer, like basketball, where there are more 436 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,640 comprehensive systems in place that don't have all those 437 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,920 economic barriers, you suddenly start to fall behind really 438 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,160 quickly. Well, there there was a real 439 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,840 sports did a lot of this because there was another story they did 440 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,240 6-7 years ago, which oddly is like not like there's only clips 441 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,600 available. It's not fully available. 442 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,640 Come on, HBO, put it out there on one of your 27 apps from HBO 443 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,760 Go to not go to HBO Now to not. Super Match. 444 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,400 Super match not match just HBO we'll do it again just total 445 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,000 horrible branding. They, they did a story about the 446 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,920 Norway skiing like youth instruction and how just 447 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,680 completely different it is because all these youth sports 448 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,360 here, you know, in the US it's all about tournaments and games 449 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:15,040 and playing, playing a ton and keeping score and having winners 450 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,720 and having losers and having trophies. 451 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,640 And in Norway, where they have a unbelievable success at skiing, 452 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,520 it's like up until 16, it's just, we'll have fun. 453 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,840 Like everybody's allowed to be in there. 454 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,920 Like there's professional coaches and they're coaching, 455 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,400 but it's like we're not keeping track of times or anything. 456 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,200 And like, we'll, we'll do races and like the, the kids will kind 457 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,160 of know where they finish, but we're not giving out meds. 458 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,840 Like it's just for fun. And then it like 12 or 13 or 14 459 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,440 is when they're like, all right now we'll see who can actually 460 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,360 do it. And you know, I, I look at that 461 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:44,360 too. And it's like that that goes 462 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,040 into like, I'm not even sure the program we have now with the 463 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,760 youth sports culture provides the results because you get a 464 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,000 ton of burnout. And then you also get, you know, 465 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,320 this is also so many things tie into this. 466 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,600 It's like after you had the injuries with, you know, 467 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,160 Halliburton and Tatum and a little bit of Lillard, but like 468 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,520 all of these crazy Achilles injuries, you start looking at 469 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,800 like, is this overuse and kids just playing too much, which 470 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,680 also, again, like real sports is the Rosetta Stone. 471 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,160 It goes back to a real sports. Another one they talked about 472 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,440 with, you know, Tommy John surgery and young kids and just 473 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,920 the idea of, you know, pitchers in these travel teams throwing 474 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,000 curveballs when they're 910111212 years old again, 475 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,920 because they're trying to win where it's like, you know, 476 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,160 these, these guys are doing Tommy John surgery and 17-8, you 477 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,280 know, 12 and 13 year old kids. It's like, are are you getting 478 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,960 overuse injuries because you're playing too much at A at a 479 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,840 competition? Level. 480 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:38,360 So part of the issue, and I want to start this segment or part of 481 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:41,800 it by saying the big problem with the European system when 482 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,160 you get into things like soccer is that it does leave a ton of 483 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,160 people behind who don't make it. People who think they're going 484 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,760 to become professional soccer players and they get to age 18 485 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,280 and they're not good enough and suddenly they basically don't 486 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,240 have a future. When you think about, however, 487 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,320 the overall setup in sports, there's a bunch of things in the 488 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,880 European system and elsewhere that work more functionally 489 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,560 better than the current American system. 490 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,720 And it's ironically something the American system used to at 491 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,560 least do somewhat well and has increasingly not done well. 492 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,960 So there's a few things here to throw in a as you said, it's a 493 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,080 lot more inclusive. It's not sorry you don't qualify 494 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,480 economically, so we're not going to let you into our. 495 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,600 Club or sorry your your. Family doesn't have enough 496 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,640 money, so you don't get to play on these fields. 497 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,800 You've got to go. Find something that your tax 498 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,400 dollars don't even pay for anymore. 499 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,280 So that's that's part of the issue is that you, you, as we 500 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,480 talked about, not just with the academic barriers that the US 501 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,920 has had, but you know, even with that, everybody would at least 502 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,600 normally get a chance to go to high school. 503 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,600 It wasn't until high school that you would start to see people 504 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,960 drop off. But that's a different set of 505 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,440 barriers that reduces the number of people that could 506 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,800 potentially. Be discovered as elite athletes 507 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,320 or very good athletes that could play at the collegiate level or 508 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,200 the professional level. So that's part of the issue. 509 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,280 Second issue that you run into is that with most of these 510 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120 travel teams, with most of the high school coaching, there's no 511 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,440 licensing. There's, there's, there's very 512 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:25,440 little quality control in terms of what you get with the coaches 513 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,560 that you have The a lot of times your qualifications in those 514 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,640 cases are, well, I played in college or I played at the pro 515 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,600 level, but I'm not actually doing the training. 516 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,840 It's somebody I knew in high school or college that's doing 517 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,800 the training. It's my name, the brand name on 518 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,480 there that's selling it, but it's a business. 519 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,360 I'm not actually necessarily out there doing XY and Z. 520 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,760 You know, contrast that with take soccer training in Europe 521 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,440 where and in basketball where there is there are badges and 522 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,640 there are training levels and you have to in order to. 523 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,680 Qualify for jobs, have to take tests. 524 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,560 And have to continually upgrade your knowledge level in order to 525 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,200 rise up through the ranks of coaching. 526 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,960 That doesn't mean that you can't get great coaches out of a 527 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,960 license list system. It just means that you could get 528 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,600 a coach who isn't very good. And you'll often get coaches who 529 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,960 might be good at coaching particular skills but might be 530 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,640 terrible at teaching the holistic elements of the game. 531 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,200 And it's why you don't see a lot of skill development in a lot of 532 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,160 these for, and again, I'm painting with A broad brush 533 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,400 here, but when you think about, but the complaints and the 534 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,560 concerns that people have about youth sports in the USA, lot of 535 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,240 it is there is no real quality control. 536 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,040 Often times parents don't know what they're getting because 537 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,000 they're getting sold a vision or a, or a bill of goods on certain 538 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,960 things that may not match up with the reality. 539 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,520 But how are you going to know you're not an expert in this? 540 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,840 Either so I have some experience in this. 541 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,280 I was AII coached basketball in Texas. 542 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,800 I was a teacher for five years, middle school coach, head coach 543 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,960 the basketball team in Texas. It's funny, I I got there, you 544 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,920 and I took the coaching basketball course with Bob 545 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,120 Knight. I had my notebook. 546 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,560 But I I get there, I was hired as a social studies teacher and 547 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,960 my principal was like, you're from Indiana. 548 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,760 Like, yeah, he's like, I like Bob Knight, you're a basketball 549 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,560 coach. Like, OK, I guess that's how I'm 550 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,840 doing it. But you know, this was right 551 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,600 2000 to 2006, kind of early AAU culture. 552 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,240 Again, one point of reference. But you know, I'm coaching 7th 553 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,440 and 8th grade in middle school. I'm the head coach. 554 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,800 We met every year with the high school head coach, the high 555 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,120 school that we fed into and and his directives were very clear. 556 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,440 Like, Hey, we run a motion offense. 557 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,840 I play man to man defense. You here's there's little things 558 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,600 like you know, when the guys, you know what we call Wolf, when 559 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,400 the guys come up behind the ball, just terminology. 560 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,200 I want to to plug in. So we get your kids as freshmen, 561 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,240 it moves in. He's like, I really don't care 562 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:45,640 if you win or lose. Like I want your kids to 563 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,080 compete. I want them to play hard, but I 564 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,880 would much rather your team come in and they know the principles 565 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,040 of motion offense. Then you guys win a division 566 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,800 title middle school, because who really cares about that Move 567 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,240 that to today where some kids just playing AAU all the time. 568 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,480 And from an AAU point of perspective of these travel 569 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,080 teams, you kind of have to play to win. 570 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,920 Because if you're telling parents like, hey, we're going 571 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,040 to go to Buffalo and then Rochester and then we're going 572 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,160 to date and we're going to fly all these places, you know, just 573 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,480 economically, it's like, I, I don't want to go and watch my 574 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,080 team go own 25 all year. Like that sucks. 575 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,080 And like I, I don't really, if we're just going to learn 576 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,200 principles, why, why are we going to Dayton, OH to do that 577 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,320 when I live in Indiana? So I, I think that's part of it. 578 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,280 I also think, you know, one of my other when I was in sales for 579 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,680 years too, Like one of my things I always try and think of is 580 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,840 like, how, how are you making money off of this? 581 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,480 Like just in the, in the equation when I'm doing a 582 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,120 business deal, like what's the benefit to the other side? 583 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,480 Because there has to be one there? 584 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,240 Like how are they making money? It's also good, just like good 585 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,040 advice to not get scammed. Someone's like, Hey, I'll give 586 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,080 you free money. It's like, how, what's your deal 587 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,320 on this? But what do you think about it? 588 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,120 Like again, back to kind of that public good, you know, high 589 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,800 schools, colleges, they were this there to provide education 590 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,680 and also provide athletics and they would get a benefit if a 591 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,720 player went to the next level. It's like, oh, we're the high 592 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,120 school that had, you know, Tyrese Halliburton, Jason Tatum, 593 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,880 and you get some of that on the the travel circuit. 594 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,800 But really how the travel circuit makes money is not that 595 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,640 they advance players to the next level. 596 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,960 It's that you stay in their system and then you continue to 597 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,040 pay them their dues every year and you continue to fund these 598 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,920 travel tournaments, which fund the sites like Grand Park. 599 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,320 And, and that is that just provides a different level of 600 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,040 instead of work. Again, not saying that travel 601 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,360 coaches can't be good or the system can't work, but it, it 602 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,720 also provides this underbelly where it's like, what's the real 603 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,200 goal here? It's like, am I trying to make 604 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,160 everybody better? Or if I win a bunch of games and 605 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,200 the parents are happy and they sign up again next year and I 606 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,200 can raise the prices, maybe I just kind of focus on the, the 607 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,760 wrong things. Like I the last thing I'll say, 608 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,120 sorry, I'm talking a lot. It's like I just finished 609 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,800 coaching my son who's going into 7th grade last two years in 610 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,000 intramurals here in Westfield. And you know, in the 6th grade 611 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,640 intramural, you're allowed to do zone defense like two quarters 612 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,520 of the game. I just never did it. 613 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,720 I hated running zone. I we, we had a little tournament 614 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,440 at the end. It's like I ran zone for half a 615 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,160 game because like it's a tournament, but the rest of the 616 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,920 season I'm like, let's play man to man. 617 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,160 Cause zone is almost like this weird hack at the younger levels 618 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,440 of basketball where it's really tough for kids to play offense 619 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,840 against a zone. But it teaches. 620 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,440 And again, like Jim Beheim, I'm sorry if you're listening, but 621 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,160 you know, zone at a young level just teaches really bad 622 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,680 defensive principles. OK, just stay there and just 623 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,200 don't move a lot. Whereas man to man teaches you 624 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,520 to move. And so I look at it kind of like 625 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,560 throwing a curveball young, but it's like you, you see this a 626 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,680 lot in travel teams. They run a lot of sets that 627 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,080 maybe aren't teaching the best fundamentals, but they're kind 628 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,400 of hacks to get you to get wins. And that's where you get into 629 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,400 this issue where you have a lot of players who may have the 630 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,880 means maybe in the system and they're learning kind of all of 631 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,000 the wrong things. So they get to a level where 632 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,800 they need to know like how to shuffle on defense, how to get 633 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,240 back and how to, you know, understand your spot in a, you 634 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,280 know, help defense situation. They don't know how to do it. 635 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:04,640 Right. Well, and I just want to 636 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,400 clarify, there are licenses available. 637 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,360 Whether they're required or not is almost entirely dependent 638 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,880 upon what state you're in, what organization is being coached. 639 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,280 So, you know, like USA Basketball has a licensing 640 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,560 system where you have to become, I think AUSA Gold member or you 641 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,720 don't have that license in order to coach, but that's only if 642 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,160 you're affiliated with USA Basketball. 643 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,120 Same thing with soccer. Like they've tried to create a 644 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,840 system where there's licensing, but it's no guarantee that 645 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,160 you're actually going to be needing that depending on what 646 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,440 organization you're coaching for. 647 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,320 My point in all of this is not that there aren't great coaches 648 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,640 in the US or that there's not certain circumstances where you 649 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,560 might have that, but most parents are very ignorant about 650 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,760 these spaces to begin with. The kids certainly don't know 651 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,520 any better one way or the other in most cases. 652 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,760 And what we find is that there's even when there is licensing 653 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,960 involved and even when you do have some kind of a credential 654 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,120 check, it's often as you just put it, without real direction. 655 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,520 Because you could be in one community learning one set of 656 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,320 things and move to a different community in the same state, in 657 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,000 the same metro area and have an entirely different set of 658 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,800 emphases. It's very inconsistent. 659 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,560 It's very patchwork. And what it ends up creating is 660 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,719 a circumstance where for a lot of people, they're they're 661 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,520 wasting money and they don't know it at the parental level. 662 00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:42,159 And they're your kid might just be naturally good at sports and 663 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,239 not need that coaching. And often times there's things 664 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,280 you need to unlock in kids that you might not be able to get to 665 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,960 because you're not getting the right coaching. 666 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,719 I mean, it's a real issue that often times doesn't get cleared 667 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,600 up until much later in the process. 668 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,000 Right. Yeah, so, you know, I I do think 669 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,240 that just across the board and we had AI thought some really 670 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,240 good comments from Mike Petrie, long time friend and listener 671 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:10,520 and occasional guest on the pod. But, you know, he made the note 672 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,360 the following which I which I thought that the, you know, 673 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,120 we're, we're worth mentioning. So one thing I think works 674 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,200 against the skill development model in the US is the sheer 675 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,800 scale of the number of players. And we talked a little bit about 676 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,200 the population differences on the last show, but I think it's 677 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,200 worth reiterating like the, the largest country in Europe by 678 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,800 population is Germany, which has about 80 to 85 million people. 679 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,080 the US has like 350 million people. 680 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,240 It's a it's a huge country. And I mean, you compare it to 681 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:45,200 something like, you know, I think like England has 60 682 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,120 million, I think France has 50 million. 683 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,080 I mean, and then and those are the biggest ones and then it 684 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,440 starts to really go downhill from there. 685 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,000 So worth noting. So bike continues because there 686 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,320 are so many players to sort through. 687 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,440 It works to NBA teams advantage to wait as long as possible 688 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,320 before they spend big money on assets, you know. 689 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,280 And so that I think is, you know, one of the issues is that, 690 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,520 as we talked about before, there probably should be a licensure, 691 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,040 A licensure system that is mandated by the major 692 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,000 professional leagues. And those professional leagues 693 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,240 should be working in tandem with the national governing bodies of 694 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:24,240 those sports. But everybody knows that the 695 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,160 leagues in the US have far more power than the governing bodies. 696 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,240 And they don't necessarily want to have to deal with that 'cause 697 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:33,160 they don't want to have to take over the training process 'cause 698 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,360 that is a lot of money. It's all about investment at 699 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,280 that point, which I'm going to come back to in a second. 700 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,640 Another thing that Mike notes, the problems of the US model are 701 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,040 that scale dictates everyone in the chain and and what the chain 702 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,760 values is quantity over quality. And a a coaches value to 703 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,400 coaching to college coaches is based on how many college ready 704 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,880 players are in the program at the same time. 705 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,440 The value to parents is how many college coaches are looking at 706 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,280 the program that the they might put their kids into. 707 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,320 What's interesting is that football appears more like golf 708 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,720 and tennis, where outside coaches and camps are more 709 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,200 concerned with individual skill development than competition 710 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,800 results. And that we you do see that a 711 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,800 bit in the draft process. We talked about how unique 712 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,320 football is. Football also has the. 713 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:17,800 Benefit. Of not having any of those 714 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,240 external pressures. As we talked about before, the 715 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,640 US isn't competing with anybody to produce football players and 716 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,720 the NFL knows it as a closed system. 717 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:31,720 And as we've seen a lot of great football players, great NFL 718 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:36,960 players either play at smaller Division One FBS colleges or 719 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,320 sometimes even lower than that. I remember, you know, who was an 720 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,800 Andre Reed, great Buffalo Bills receiver, went to Cuts Town 721 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:44,840 State. I was like, where the hell is 722 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,400 Cuts Town State? It's a small school in 723 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,600 Pennsylvania, but that shouldn't have worked. 724 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,760 How did he end up there? Look at, I mean, you want to 725 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,360 take another example last year. I mean, just how many guys? 726 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,720 Came from a deep, you know, a low level area. 727 00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:58,920 But yeah, I mean, no, it's there's Jerry Rice. 728 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,280 Didn't he play it like a Mississippi Valley state for 729 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,360 Jerry? Rice, Elijah Sarat started I 730 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,720 think at the division two school, right, and meant to 731 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:09,240 James Madison and now he's here. So it is one of the interesting 732 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,320 things about football. And again, the scale is 733 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,800 important because of how many people you need to play football 734 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,000 versus some of the other sports. And that scale thing is a real 735 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,200 problem again, because it is nationwide and you know, it does 736 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,520 create some problems in terms of trying to come up with a 737 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,720 coherent system that works nationally. 738 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,800 The problem? I think Scott for you know that 739 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,080 I, you know, I'd love to hear from you about is so many we, 740 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,440 we, you know, a, a lot of Americans love to have systems 741 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,160 that just work that they don't have to think about. 742 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,880 And that's a lot of criticism of Americans. 743 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,000 I think it's actually the case with most people everywhere. 744 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,160 You really do have to do a lot of research to figure out what 745 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,200 you should be getting your kid into at the youth sports level 746 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,360 in order to make the right decisions. 747 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,960 But you often times neither have enough information on your own 748 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:01,720 because you don't have the background in it to make the 749 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:04,080 right decisions. Nor is the information that 750 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,640 you're being presented in any way, shape or form the right 751 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,840 information that you need to actually make the decisions 752 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,520 because it requires you to go essentially scout multiple teams 753 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,080 and coaches for what, two or three years before your kid gets 754 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,480 to that point, often times while your kids already playing some 755 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,760 other version of youth sports that you already have to keep 756 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,880 tabs on. It's, it's really one of those 757 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:33,280 kind of survival of the fittest sorts of environments and it 758 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,760 disadvantages everybody except the service providers at that 759 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,160 point it feels like to me 100% true. 760 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,880 I mean. And you know, the, the two 761 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,640 things that I've experienced, you know, 1 is, you know, like 762 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,360 our, our, our, both of our, both of our boys, we signed them up 763 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,520 for baseball when they were like 6 or 7 years old. 764 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,320 And I was kind of naive. It's like, all right, well, 765 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,680 they've never played baseball. Like this is a great time to it 766 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,160 was intramural wasn't like just a trap, like an intramural 767 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,440 Baseball League at six years old. 768 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,680 And like we get there and half the kids have already had, you 769 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,600 know, professional coaching and like they're they all know how 770 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,040 to play baseball And and like my sons didn't do well. 771 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,240 They're they're not particularly awesome at baseball, but it was 772 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:11,440 like, I thought this was to learn baseball. 773 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,880 Like do we need to pre learn before six years old? 774 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,480 Like what's going on? I find that increasingly in the 775 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,720 intramurals around here and just northern Indy, Indianapolis is 776 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,040 very, you know, you sports centric up here. 777 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,680 What also. I'm finding is. 778 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,360 You know, my, my oldest plays basketball. 779 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,720 He's not, you know, he's going to try out this year. 780 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,200 We'll see how he does on the basketball. 781 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,240 He's he's not good enough to make the travel teams. 782 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,720 But I have some friends who have some daughters who are in soccer 783 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,520 and they're they're starting to make travel teams. 784 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,440 And what you also run into is like, I personally, let's just 785 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,960 say my oldest was good enough to make a travel basketball team, 786 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,600 was getting really good at basketball. 787 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,680 You, you kind of can't have your own views on things. 788 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,080 Like I don't believe that that anybody should be playing the 789 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,560 same sport 12 months a year. But if they were good enough, 790 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,920 like my friends who have the daughters in soccer, it's like 791 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,520 they don't really get to make that choice. 792 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,720 It's like, well, if you want to be on the travel team, we're 12 793 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:07,800 months a year and you sign up as like, you got to do all these 794 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,600 tournaments. If you miss two or three 795 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,320 tournaments, you're off the team sometimes without a refund. 796 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,600 So like the idea of like, well, I want my kids to play multiple 797 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,040 sports through high school. It's like you kind of don't get 798 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,520 that option if your kids are good enough to be in that elite 799 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,840 level. Because as you said, the service 800 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,760 providers kind of have these terms and conditions like, no, 801 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,800 this is what we do because then you're paying 12 months a year. 802 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,840 And so you kind of get pushed out in that realm also. 803 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,880 But it's, it's tough as a parent because it's like, I want, I, I 804 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,600 would love to see my kids grow and excel in some sports. 805 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,960 But it does feel like, man, I'm running like, you know, my 806 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,040 youngest is 9 and it's like, man, I feel like I've run out of 807 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,080 time. He's 9. 808 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,480 Like, it's stupid. But it's like I, I don't have 809 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,840 enough time to give him a trial in each one of these. 810 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,320 But it's like at 9, it feels like the kids who are already, 811 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,040 you know, pushing ahead, they've already had four years in there. 812 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,800 So it's like, I can't just start, oh, try lacrosse. 813 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,640 It's like, well, you're already behind in everything at at six 814 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,920 or seven or eight, which is which is nuts. 815 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,080 It is well, and it makes. Me feel bad because you know for 816 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,240 the number of really good youth coaches that are out there who 817 00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:14,480 believe in the right things and really push the right things and 818 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,840 have the best interests of the the kids that they're working 819 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,680 with their heart. Often times at the municipal 820 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,800 level, it, it ends up that you a lot of the the places you're 821 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,160 supposed to send your kids, if you think that they've got a 822 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,560 shot at making it to the next level of whatever that is, are 823 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:38,120 not necessarily run in a way that is conducive to being 824 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,480 having a normal life. You know, making normal or, you 825 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,920 know, economical decisions or not having to choose, as you 826 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,360 just said, between this or something else entirely because 827 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,760 you're not willing to commit to the level that somebody else is 828 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,440 willing to commit at. Well, and also, I mean I'm, I'm. 829 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,000 Sure. Many people in our audience have 830 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,440 dealt with this, like my friends who are getting into the travel 831 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,080 soccer world, they're kind of like, we'll, we'll, we'll be 832 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,160 gone for the next four months. And like, we'll, we'll throw out 833 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,080 like, Hey, we want to go to a concert in November. 834 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,880 Like we don't have our schedule yet. 835 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,320 Like they, they don't commit to anything. 836 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,920 But it's, but it's because of that commitment. 837 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,200 And I, I mean, I get it. And you know, I'm, I'm not 838 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,440 sitting here saying that if my son wasn't good enough in 839 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,120 basketball to do that, I might not be doing that for a year or 840 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,760 two just to see what it's like. So it's, I'm not at all saying 841 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,640 that's not the thing to do. It's just you, you take a step 842 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,800 back and it's like, man, that is, that is nuts. 843 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,560 I mean, we're not even in high school yet. 844 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,320 And this is a ton of commitment. Well, I guess what concerns? 845 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,760 Me, that's a micro level thing that's really important, but 846 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,280 that's happening all over the country. 847 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,400 But the macro level is just as important from a cultural 848 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,560 perspective. And this is where we probably 849 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,640 leave this topic broadly for the third episode, but to kind of 850 00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,200 tease it as many problems that individual parents and kids have 851 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,240 at this level, at the level you're talking about that period 852 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,960 between maybe 6:00 and 12:00. But even beyond that, it all 853 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,680 feels like it's directionless. And that really should concern a 854 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,160 lot of people in the United States about if you care about 855 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:21,680 USA anything, USA Basketball, USA soccer, USA track and field. 856 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,240 So much of what the setup is right now is either still 857 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,040 heavily, heavily like reliant on these pay for play types of 858 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,600 systems that have developed where you're not getting the 859 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,920 best athletes in at the top of the funnel. 860 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,520 So you're not getting them as as they pass through the funnel and 861 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,920 at the tail end as finished products. 862 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,800 But you're also, in many cases, the the part where you're 863 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,160 actually in the funnel isn't really teaching you the skills 864 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,960 that you need to be an elite athlete in that sport. 865 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,760 When you get to the tail end of things, you know, I'm always 866 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,200 amazed at how. Good. 867 00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,600 The former. Yugoslavian republics are at 868 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,160 training basketball players. You think about it like, you 869 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,680 know, Luka Doncic and Nikola Yokich and all of these amazing 870 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,080 players that they've had historically coming out of 871 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,200 Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, those three especially. 872 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,400 Like that doesn't make a lot of sense if you think about it. 873 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,400 That's that's a war-torn area. It's not the richest area in 874 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,040 Europe by any means. And yet the training 875 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,120 specifically in basketball and also in tennis, when you also 876 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,520 consider, you know, Novak Yukovich, who comes out of the 877 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,440 exact same setting. Like they have been able to come 878 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,440 up with a very directionally focused, skill heavy training 879 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,840 process that does at the end of the day, produce really high 880 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:49,120 level players in their sports, despite them not fitting any 881 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,200 archetype of what we would think of as being great athletes. 882 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,920 Like it's, it's hilarious listening to other NBA players 883 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,920 talking about Nicola Yokich. He, he breaks their brains, 884 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,520 right? Because they it like, they look 885 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,200 at this guy and he looks like, you know, Eric Montross. 886 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,240 You know where it's like that guy shouldn't be Eric Montross. 887 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,040 Yeah, out of shape. Eric Montross. 888 00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:13,520 That guy shouldn't be the best NBA player in the in the league, 889 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,560 but yet he, he's won an MVP, he probably should have won another 890 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,320 MVP. He's won an NBA title. 891 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,880 You know, he is so skilled, and he is. 892 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,000 So smart and sees the game so well. 893 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,960 And the US system, if they can get those types of players, it's 894 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,320 almost by accident because as we've talked about, the US has 895 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,640 largely survived off of brute force athletic talent making it 896 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,080 through all of these gates to get to the final spot. 897 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,680 Now with basketball, basketball's a relatively 898 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,320 inexpensive sport to do this in. Where the US needs to be 899 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,440 concerned is swimming and diving, track and field, you 900 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,240 know, all of these sports that require large facilities, 901 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:56,920 state-of-the-art facilities. And what we're going to talk 902 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,360 about in the next episode is how the potential collapse of 903 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,600 college sports as we know it really endangers. 904 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,320 That Olympic training model, Olympic training model, because 905 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,320 think about the USA Swimming and diving team, like the vast 906 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,600 majority of them are coming from where? 907 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,920 From Indiana, from Texas, you know, from a couple of other 908 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,960 schools that have great facilities and are willing to 909 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,640 fund these things. Well, we're on the precipice 910 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,240 right now of a bunch of schools saying we got to spend twenty, 911 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,280 $22 million a year on revenue sharing to pay for our football 912 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,640 players and basketball players, which we have to have in order 913 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,880 to maintain a college athletics department in this environment. 914 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,400 We're not going to continue to pay for a swimming and diving 915 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,840 program or a gymnastics. And we've already seen it in 916 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,320 some of the the like the more esoteric Olympic sports where 917 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,440 those have been. Men's gymnastics is a great 918 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,040 example. It's gotten dropped in so many 919 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,840 places because of Title 9. So you end. 920 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,240 Up with an almost entirely Academy based system. 921 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,080 The one last thing I'll also say, you also deal with a 922 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,400 situation where even in football, a lot of schools and 923 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,960 coaches are saying, if I'm at Northern Illinois, which I think 924 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,120 is actually the coach that did this, said this, or if I'm at a 925 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,640 smaller school, why should we spend our time and our money and 926 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,240 our effort training players who then move on and go play at a 927 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:20,400 higher level and we get 0 compensation in return. 928 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,400 And this is where the transfer system comes into to play, which 929 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,480 is the topic that we'll hit the next time that we do this. 930 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,360 So anyway, we'll wrap it up there. 931 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,120 Scott, any final thoughts? No, sounds good. 932 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,920 Looking forward to Part 3. We'll be back with. 933 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,640 Part 3 of this eventually we'll have a lot more IU football talk 934 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,800 coming up this week as well. This is Crimson cast for Scott. 935 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:39,960 I'm Galen. We'll catch you folks. 936 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,600 On the flip side, stay never daunted. 937 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,600 So everybody.