1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,440 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:20,520 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,760 GAIL and Clavio. Here it is. 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,560 The 31st of Wow. The 31st of August. 5 00:00:26,010 --> 00:00:30,050 Maybe maybe I can learn word formation in my next lifetime. 6 00:00:30,050 --> 00:00:34,010 But now we're back here on Crimson Cast and looking forward 7 00:00:34,010 --> 00:00:35,370 to speaking with you folks again. 8 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:40,330 If you missed our almost two hour long football Preview 9 00:00:40,810 --> 00:00:44,730 podcast final podcast, you can check that out if you're an I U 10 00:00:44,730 --> 00:00:48,250 Football fan. If not, I I wouldn't recommend 11 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:50,050 it. But you're you're still invited 12 00:00:50,050 --> 00:00:51,170 to listen. Certainly. 13 00:00:51,650 --> 00:00:55,060 But we're back here talking about college sports realignment 14 00:00:55,060 --> 00:00:58,060 in the business of college sports and looking forward to 15 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,620 our guest today coming on Doctor Matthew Zimmerman, another 16 00:01:01,620 --> 00:01:05,780 longtime contributor to Crimson cast and friend of the podcast 17 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:07,460 and that we've had him on before. 18 00:01:07,740 --> 00:01:10,380 This is right in his wheelhouse, not just because of the college 19 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:13,140 sports piece but because of the PAC 12. 20 00:01:13,220 --> 00:01:16,100 And we wanted to get his opinions and thoughts on what's 21 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:19,980 going on with all of that. So first of all, Matt, good to 22 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:23,440 have you back on how you doing. I'm doing really well. 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,560 I actually just returned from a trip back home to PAC 12 country 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,720 and so I'm I'm a little refreshed and renewed and in 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,160 some ways did you get to see the give Reggie Bush back his 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,200 Heisman sign on the on the 405 by chance. 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,960 I did not have a chance to see, though I did not seek it out. 28 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:44,650 I should have. Because I am, I am most 29 00:01:44,650 --> 00:01:46,530 definitely on board with that sentiment. 30 00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:49,490 Absolutely. Well, we might end up talking 31 00:01:49,490 --> 00:01:51,090 about that obliquely a little bit later. 32 00:01:51,090 --> 00:01:53,410 But first of all, before we get started with that, just a 33 00:01:53,410 --> 00:01:55,810 reminder to everybody that we are part of the back home 34 00:01:55,810 --> 00:01:59,370 network here at Crimson Cast. And the back home network is 35 00:01:59,370 --> 00:02:01,570 brought to you by home field apparel, your place to go for 36 00:02:01,570 --> 00:02:07,000 the finest in college fashions, the softest fabrics and even 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,600 more so these days, some of the best vintage gear from some of 38 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,160 the more obscure brands, which that's really what we're in this 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,160 for all of us, I think it's not just wearing a comfortable 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,240 tshirt, everybody assumes you want to wear your own school's 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,200 stuff. But man, there's there's an 42 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:27,680 allure to wearing like a 1983 Southern Illinois FCS Champions 43 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,520 shirt or I guess it was one AA at that point. 44 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,680 And then Home Fields got that they just released in their week 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,090 of Champions, You know output here this week. 46 00:02:38,370 --> 00:02:43,810 They've got shirts from SIU and from Georgia Southern and it's 47 00:02:43,810 --> 00:02:46,010 some pretty cool looking stuff, so go check that out. 48 00:02:46,010 --> 00:02:48,730 They have individual pieces as well as a three piece collection 49 00:02:48,970 --> 00:02:50,890 up on the website. If you go to 50 00:02:50,890 --> 00:02:54,370 homefieldapparel.com or you check them out on Instagram or 51 00:02:54,370 --> 00:02:58,970 on X or on Facebook or anywhere else that they are, you'll see 52 00:02:59,050 --> 00:03:01,370 that and so many more items of their collection. 53 00:03:01,450 --> 00:03:06,050 Use the code Home, HOME. Get 15% off your first order. 54 00:03:06,290 --> 00:03:11,380 Also a programming reminder, Crimson Cast is now on Sub 55 00:03:11,380 --> 00:03:12,900 Stack. They said it couldn't be done. 56 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:15,860 They said we wouldn't go there. But especially with the 57 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:19,340 dissolution of of X slash Twitter and and really just not 58 00:03:19,340 --> 00:03:22,380 being a great place to hang out anymore for sports Talk, we 59 00:03:22,380 --> 00:03:25,180 wanted to find a way to deliver Crimson Cast to you folks 60 00:03:25,180 --> 00:03:28,380 directly in your inbox. So sign up for the Sub Stack, 61 00:03:28,380 --> 00:03:31,820 it's free. crimsoncast.substack.com You'll 62 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:35,260 get updates when episodes drop. You'll get updates about some 63 00:03:35,260 --> 00:03:37,540 things that we're thinking about, some stuff that doesn't 64 00:03:37,540 --> 00:03:40,620 make it on the podcast. There's even a paid fiber area 65 00:03:40,620 --> 00:03:43,940 where we're trying to deliver some goodies that you folks will 66 00:03:43,940 --> 00:03:45,940 like. We've already done a couple of 67 00:03:45,940 --> 00:03:47,260 those and looking forward to doing more. 68 00:03:47,260 --> 00:03:49,540 So again, crimsoncast.substack.com, we 69 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:53,020 would love to have you join us on that particular venture. 70 00:03:53,340 --> 00:03:56,190 All right, Matt. Well, if I can go ahead. 71 00:03:56,230 --> 00:03:59,390 In words about home field apparel, Yes, yes, you don't 72 00:03:59,390 --> 00:04:01,950 want to. When I first started looking at 73 00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:04,070 home field apparel a few years ago, around the time of the 74 00:04:04,070 --> 00:04:08,110 Black Oval T, that amazing I UT shirt was released by them. 75 00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:11,230 I thought, okay, There's so much amazing stuff, I better limit 76 00:04:11,230 --> 00:04:14,190 myself only to schools with which I have an affiliation, 77 00:04:14,590 --> 00:04:16,899 like. Maybe that I attended or worked 78 00:04:16,899 --> 00:04:19,660 at, or my friends were. The problem is my list of 79 00:04:19,660 --> 00:04:22,380 schools with an affiliation. I keep artificially expanding it 80 00:04:22,380 --> 00:04:25,900 so I can buy those tshirts. So that's absolutely it's 81 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:28,260 absolutely amazing. You know, I covered a game, but 82 00:04:28,260 --> 00:04:31,340 you see, if I'd once gotta have that surfing antique tshirt, 83 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:33,860 it's so long. It is a great approach by you. 84 00:04:34,060 --> 00:04:36,540 Most people, they just complain that home field drains their 85 00:04:36,540 --> 00:04:39,060 bank account. You go a step further and you 86 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:41,340 actually get jobs at all of these places. 87 00:04:41,340 --> 00:04:45,140 Or go get press passes so that you can justify buying home 88 00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:48,500 field that really honestly that's like a profile worthy I 89 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:50,060 think from the home field website. 90 00:04:50,060 --> 00:04:51,260 We should talk to them about that. 91 00:04:52,220 --> 00:04:53,060 Thank you. Thank you. 92 00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:57,220 So Matt, we wanted to have you on to talk about college sports 93 00:04:57,220 --> 00:04:59,540 realignment and specifically what's happened with the PAC 12 94 00:04:59,540 --> 00:05:01,940 we obviously had you on last summer. 95 00:05:01,940 --> 00:05:04,140 Many people listen to that episode and enjoyed it when we 96 00:05:04,140 --> 00:05:08,300 talked about what at the time looked like, you know, the heart 97 00:05:08,620 --> 00:05:13,580 being cut out of the PAC 12 with USC&UCLA deciding to join the 98 00:05:13,580 --> 00:05:15,580 Big 10. But it, you know, even with the 99 00:05:15,580 --> 00:05:20,420 heart gone, it felt like the PAC 12 might find a way you know, 100 00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:24,700 through necromancy or something to keep the body animated for a 101 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:26,820 while and and maybe add some brands. 102 00:05:26,820 --> 00:05:30,100 And instead it's gone exactly the opposite direction. 103 00:05:30,340 --> 00:05:33,780 Now Oregon and Washington have left the PAC 12 to join the Big 104 00:05:33,780 --> 00:05:37,820 10, which then led to Arizona, Arizona State and Utah 105 00:05:37,820 --> 00:05:40,740 announcing that they were going to join Colorado in moving to 106 00:05:40,740 --> 00:05:44,030 the Big 12. And now what we're left with is 107 00:05:44,030 --> 00:05:49,230 the Bay Area schools who are in this, like weird, awkward should 108 00:05:49,230 --> 00:05:53,070 we hold hands or have sex phase with the ACC? 109 00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:55,590 And then Oregon State and Washington State just seem to 110 00:05:55,590 --> 00:05:58,390 have been left out altogether at this point. 111 00:05:59,110 --> 00:06:02,230 So, you know, first before we get to the business aspects and 112 00:06:02,230 --> 00:06:05,910 all of that, you know, for you as a guy who grew up in PAC 10 113 00:06:05,910 --> 00:06:09,790 country and, you know, followed those teams and that was really 114 00:06:09,790 --> 00:06:11,190 what you grew up with. Like what? 115 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,560 What's been your overall emotional and intellectual 116 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,480 reaction to what's transpired over these last two months? 117 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Well, when I I recently relistened to what we talked 118 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,600 about last year and when USC&UCLA went to the Big 10, I 119 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,240 was a little tickled by that because I thought it was funny 120 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,040 that USC&UCLA, who are our schools, which are very, they 121 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,760 very much fit the Big 10 mold, but they basically want the 122 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,400 money if long term and had to come to the Big 10. 123 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,880 And I thought that was kind of. Fun I thought the PAC 10 could 124 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,480 survive. I didn't know that they should 125 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,680 add anybody because no one fit that profile. 126 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,320 What's happened over the last couple months, though? 127 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,600 I thought. It's been heartbreaking, to be 128 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,800 honest, to see the whole thing fall and just into a shamble so 129 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,070 quickly, but also. Incredibly baffling to see and 130 00:07:01,070 --> 00:07:05,030 hear and read about how much how many bad decisions the PAC 12 131 00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:08,510 including the PAC 12 presidents made to get to this point. 132 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:12,790 I know we had an exchange about the the fact that what was it 133 00:07:12,790 --> 00:07:15,630 there was one PAC 12 like like the the commissioner went to 134 00:07:15,630 --> 00:07:18,630 them and was like OK the here's a couple deals what are we 135 00:07:18,630 --> 00:07:22,510 looking at And one of the presidents was like according to 136 00:07:22,510 --> 00:07:26,510 an economist on our campus we believe we can get big 10 or SEC 137 00:07:26,510 --> 00:07:29,590 money and I think our. The agreement was that it was 138 00:07:29,590 --> 00:07:31,310 there is in the states president probably. 139 00:07:31,750 --> 00:07:34,070 So it's it's very strange in that way that the PAC 12 could 140 00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:37,070 be so short sighted when a year ago everyone would have thought 141 00:07:37,070 --> 00:07:40,030 they'd start rating the Big 12 and now it's been the complete 142 00:07:40,030 --> 00:07:43,510 opposite and now the PAC 12 is I mean the Rose Bowl going forward 143 00:07:43,510 --> 00:07:46,190 is kind of dead as a PAC 12 Big 10 matchup anyway. 144 00:07:46,270 --> 00:07:50,310 Yeah, but this is crazy. It's funny, I I want to get to 145 00:07:50,310 --> 00:07:51,350 all the other things you mentioned. 146 00:07:51,350 --> 00:07:54,190 But I was I was actually teaching a class on this 147 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:57,980 yesterday and I was doing the part of the lecture where we're 148 00:07:57,980 --> 00:08:01,980 talking about like the formation of the BCS And you know I always 149 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:06,100 forget that you know that the BCS and it's and it's 150 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:09,660 predecessors the Bowl Coalition and the Bowl Alliance so much of 151 00:08:09,660 --> 00:08:15,300 that had to orbit the Rose Bowls place in things and the PAC 10 152 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:18,020 and the Big 10 saying we have to have the Rose Bowl that's where 153 00:08:18,020 --> 00:08:21,250 we have to go. And it it's kind of it's weird 154 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:25,370 now that essentially that's become like just another neutral 155 00:08:25,370 --> 00:08:28,650 site for the Big 10 given how the expansion has got. 156 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:31,210 It's just such a radical change from what seemed to be ruling 157 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:34,950 things 1520 years ago. Yes, absolutely. 158 00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:39,390 When I teach that particular lesson I did in the spring and 159 00:08:39,470 --> 00:08:41,630 what I always talked about, aside from the fact that, you 160 00:08:41,630 --> 00:08:45,310 know, Notre Dame gets money just for being Notre Dame from every 161 00:08:45,310 --> 00:08:52,110 playoff and championship system, that the PAC 12 and big, excuse 162 00:08:52,110 --> 00:08:54,710 me, PAC 10 and Big 10 were like, we just want to preserve the 163 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:56,630 tradition of the Rose Bowl. You know the tradition of the 164 00:08:56,630 --> 00:08:59,350 Rose Bowl is so important to us when in actuality is probably 165 00:08:59,350 --> 00:09:02,790 the TV contract that they wanted to make sure they preserved and 166 00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:05,750 so. And so now it's in the Rose Bowl 167 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:08,830 presented by AT&T because there's no way the Rose, the 168 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:11,950 sacred Rose Bowl, can have a sponsor and associated no 169 00:09:11,950 --> 00:09:16,630 tospitos for them. And so the so the Rose Bowl was, 170 00:09:16,670 --> 00:09:19,310 you know, holding its head up high, holding its nose up high. 171 00:09:20,670 --> 00:09:24,710 And now it again, I think last year was the last truly 172 00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:26,070 traditional matchup we were going to have. 173 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:28,030 Since this year it's going to be a playoff semifinal and then 174 00:09:28,030 --> 00:09:29,870 it's going to be part of the playoff going forward. 175 00:09:30,150 --> 00:09:34,470 So it's nice to end on a Utah, Penn State matchup in the Rose 176 00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:36,470 Bowl, which I believe that's what we had last year. 177 00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:38,990 Yeah, yeah. So Utah, two schools. 178 00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:42,750 Two schools that were not in the Big 10 in 1990, or the PAC 10 179 00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:44,750 for that matter. Right. 180 00:09:44,750 --> 00:09:46,950 That's so you get to hold the banner one last time. 181 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:50,390 So it's been that. That is one of the crazy things 182 00:09:50,390 --> 00:09:53,270 that just how much the Rose Bowl plummeted in importance over the 183 00:09:53,270 --> 00:09:56,430 last couple years and how it's basically gone now. 184 00:09:56,430 --> 00:10:00,790 So the PAC 12 cannot say, well, we lose that that traditional 185 00:10:00,790 --> 00:10:02,390 matchup because it was gone anyway. 186 00:10:03,310 --> 00:10:05,830 So, but yeah, that that has been a really weird loss of 187 00:10:05,830 --> 00:10:06,670 tradition. Yeah. 188 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:09,800 So well you talked a little bit about some of the weird 189 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,480 decisions that were being made by the presidents and the other 190 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,000 folks in the room. I mean part of this I'm going to 191 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,200 do something I didn't think I would do at the start of all of 192 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:25,200 this and and maybe very mildly defend the PAC 12 presidents in 193 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,760 as much as there's we've talked about this on one of the other 194 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,000 podcast. But you know you've got this 195 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,160 booster at Michigan who has or not not just a booster, but he's 196 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,480 like a member of the Board of Regents up there and he and he's 197 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,480 been giving interviews. He had this long tweet storm 198 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,840 about how you know, the the, the decision making around all of 199 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,840 this has just been screwed up. And one of the things he noted, 200 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,720 which I think is a a keen observation is that, you know, 201 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,320 the athletic directors were forced to cede control of what 202 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,920 the athletic programs did to the presidents of the universities. 203 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,120 And then the president ceded that control to the conference 204 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,160 commissioners and then the conference commissioners ceded 205 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:06,800 control of that to the networks. And the networks have largely 206 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,480 driven a lot of the decision making, a lot of the movement, 207 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,000 and we've seen that going back a couple of decades now, you know 208 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,240 that I do wonder as much as the PAC 12 presidents I think 209 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,560 deserve grief for allowing things to get that to where they 210 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:21,600 were. It it had it. 211 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:24,640 It feels like there had to have been more information in the mix 212 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,080 then, you know what one PAC 12 president thought a professor on 213 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,440 his campus had told him? It it, it feels almost to some 214 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,960 degree, especially when you think about how essentially, 215 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,360 yes, you know, Fox was unwilling to pay the PAC 12, but they were 216 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,560 willing to pay for Oregon and Washington to join the Big 10, 217 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:44,480 and they were the ones that came up with the extra money. 218 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:51,120 And yeah, ESPN didn't want to pay the PAC 12, but they are, 219 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,400 you know, they were willing to front the money to the Big 12 to 220 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,240 allow those four schools to join that. 221 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,470 And now we're hearing that, you know, if you get Stanford and 222 00:12:00,470 --> 00:12:04,630 Cal in the ACC, that money would get kicked in by ESPN as well as 223 00:12:04,630 --> 00:12:07,750 part of things. So it's like what was there just 224 00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:11,310 bad information being given was this very Machiavellian by the 225 00:12:11,310 --> 00:12:13,710 networks where they're like, well, we really don't really, we 226 00:12:13,710 --> 00:12:18,550 don't want 4 entities anymore. We really or excuse me, we don't 227 00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:21,470 want five, we really want 4. You know, are we willing to 228 00:12:21,470 --> 00:12:23,630 front the money to like break one of them up? 229 00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:26,940 And in this case, it's the PAC 12 because the component pieces 230 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,220 are more valuable than the collective. 231 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:32,980 And if that's the case and the presidents are operating off the 232 00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:35,580 idea or that they've been told, hey, you guys do have intrinsic 233 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:40,060 value, then I wonder like where, like where do you really assign 234 00:12:40,060 --> 00:12:42,740 blame at that point? Clearly you still have to be a 235 00:12:42,740 --> 00:12:44,900 custodian and and you have to safeguard these things as a 236 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,300 college president. But I'm starting to wonder, what 237 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:49,820 kind of information were they being given in the first place? 238 00:12:52,070 --> 00:12:55,470 You know, it'd be easy to say, well, maybe they just didn't 239 00:12:55,470 --> 00:12:59,110 like the PAC 12 being together or even produce to a PAC 10. 240 00:12:59,350 --> 00:13:02,350 But that whole PAC 12 After dark, I mean that always got 241 00:13:02,350 --> 00:13:04,710 really big buzz. And they the entire idea of 242 00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:07,710 while the games start too late, nobody's watching was thrown out 243 00:13:07,710 --> 00:13:10,930 the window with all that. I mean maybe the ratings weren't 244 00:13:10,930 --> 00:13:14,490 as big as, you know, a big noon Saturday game on on Fox for the 245 00:13:14,490 --> 00:13:18,170 Big 10. But clearly the PAC 12 was still 246 00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:22,210 getting some viewership and there's passionate fans and all 247 00:13:22,210 --> 00:13:24,850 that. I part of me wonders if the 248 00:13:24,890 --> 00:13:27,410 networks were trying to negotiate and they got annoyed 249 00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:31,730 with the PAC 10 like the that the presidents were like just a 250 00:13:31,730 --> 00:13:34,050 little agree look well, how much more can you give us type of 251 00:13:34,050 --> 00:13:38,450 thing like I, because I think it's pretty obvious in this 252 00:13:38,450 --> 00:13:40,270 whole thing. And yeah, that that one 253 00:13:40,270 --> 00:13:42,310 president was probably being thrown under the bus a little 254 00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:45,590 bit by the whoever talked to, I believe the LA Times about that. 255 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:48,150 Very true. But I think what happened was 256 00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:51,030 the PAC 12 just lost sight of what his true value was. 257 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,320 And we've have seen that from the beginning. 258 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,280 Again, I know you've talked about in one of the previous 259 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,440 Pods about a dozen years ago, they had the biggest TV deal and 260 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,280 they had three of the top six teams when SC, Stanford and 261 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,360 Oregon were all up there. The year that Alabama beat LSU 262 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,480 for the national title, I believe 2011. 263 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,560 And so it's easy for them to just. 264 00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:13,630 Not understand that there's still very much a regional 265 00:14:13,630 --> 00:14:18,270 delight and I think that after USC&UCLA left instead of having 266 00:14:18,270 --> 00:14:21,550 a proverbial come to Jesus moment where they said we're not 267 00:14:21,550 --> 00:14:24,630 what we were there's no way to get back to that And you know 268 00:14:24,830 --> 00:14:29,310 the San Diego State is a laughable addition if we're if 269 00:14:29,310 --> 00:14:34,990 the idea is to replace USC&UCLA instead they basically tried to 270 00:14:34,990 --> 00:14:38,210 get as much as they could and. And I think it'd be very easy 271 00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:40,210 for her to think the networks just got annoyed with them. 272 00:14:40,210 --> 00:14:42,410 Like, you know what? You have value, Some of you have 273 00:14:42,410 --> 00:14:44,730 value, but you have more value as part of a different 274 00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:46,890 collective rather than your current PAC 12 collective. 275 00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:52,130 Yeah, I mean, that's probably accurate and it really is. 276 00:14:52,610 --> 00:14:55,210 There's a lot of interesting things floating around right 277 00:14:55,210 --> 00:14:57,810 now. And I think with the PAC 10/12 278 00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:03,640 in particular the idea of value, the idea of you know being able 279 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,640 to clearly evaluate where you are in the marketplace and make 280 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,320 adaptations and that is obviously something that most of 281 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:16,120 these conferences have struggled with the and honestly the ACC 282 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:17,760 kind of falls under that same category. 283 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,720 I mean the the one thing I am curious to get your, your take 284 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,760 on in addition to all of this before we get to more of the 285 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,800 business things is from a cultural perspective. 286 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:31,560 A lot of sports media people have treated the the essential 287 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,920 death of the PAC 12. I mean it's not technically dead 288 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,720 yet, but I don't know who they would get to actually replace 289 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000 teams and and even if they did it wouldn't be a power 290 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,400 conference anymore. But this has been decried as, 291 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,240 you know, this this tragedy of sorts and and that it's going to 292 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,800 have a a really negative impact on a bunch of different things. 293 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,850 The one area that I'm kind of curious about is how important 294 00:15:55,850 --> 00:16:02,450 really has PAC 10 sports been to the larger sports culture on the 295 00:16:02,450 --> 00:16:04,650 West Coast? This is something that I've 296 00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:07,090 always had a hard time getting my head wrapped around because 297 00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:10,170 you know, LA, it's kind, it's kind of like Miami in a way, 298 00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:12,570 where there's there's a lot of sports fans and there's more 299 00:16:12,570 --> 00:16:14,810 sports fans by far in LA than there are in Miami. 300 00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:19,350 But because of the dominance of professional teams, college 301 00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:21,590 sports always tends to take a bit of a back burner. 302 00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:23,830 New York has the exact same issue, although it doesn't have 303 00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:26,830 any local teams. So going up and down the coast, 304 00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:29,230 like, how much does this actually resonate? 305 00:16:29,230 --> 00:16:31,350 How much of this will have really a negative longterm 306 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:34,070 impact versus like, well, this is a shame. 307 00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:36,630 It was nice to have our own regional conference that 308 00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:40,390 represented these areas, but it's it's either not vital to 309 00:16:40,390 --> 00:16:42,950 the continued interest in college sports on the West Coast 310 00:16:42,950 --> 00:16:45,310 or people just weren't that interested in the first place. 311 00:16:47,290 --> 00:16:48,890 Well, there's a lot of different layers here. 312 00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:52,370 It's funny because, you know, I have a obviously multiple family 313 00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:57,330 members or excuse me, wives of my brothers who attended PAC 12 314 00:16:57,330 --> 00:17:02,930 schools, Cal and UCLA. And I called my brother who is, 315 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:06,849 who's the UCLA fan by osmosis and I told him he goes, what's 316 00:17:06,849 --> 00:17:07,970 So what? What's this all about? 317 00:17:07,970 --> 00:17:10,730 And I said first lesson, you're going to learn to be as annoyed 318 00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:13,690 by Illinois and its fans as the rest of us already are in the 319 00:17:13,690 --> 00:17:17,980 Big 10 and. And so he was like, OK, that's a 320 00:17:17,980 --> 00:17:20,540 good lesson to know. But you know as far as this 321 00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:24,980 about 30 years ago, Al Davis and that had the Coliseum, the LA 322 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:28,980 Coliseum downsized from 92,000 capacity to 68,000 capacity. 323 00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:32,860 And then the Raiders proceeded of course to average 34,000 and 324 00:17:32,860 --> 00:17:36,740 anyway. But when the when USC got good 325 00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:39,340 again, like under Pete Carroll and those guys like Reggie Bush 326 00:17:39,340 --> 00:17:42,860 who we mentioned earlier were there, they would get 80, some 327 00:17:42,860 --> 00:17:47,280 90,000 people per game. And there was a lot of passion 328 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,160 for a lot of revive passion because everybody loves a 329 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,040 winner. Yeah, I mean at UCLA, that's it. 330 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,720 the Rose Bowl is very, very big. Until yesterday, it held the 331 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,960 record for the largest attendance ever at a women's 332 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,800 sporting event in America and with 91,000. 333 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,560 And I think there were 95,000 for the men's World Cup final in 334 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,400 94. It's a very, very large place. 335 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,600 And there been some Rose Bowls that have had that kind of 336 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,280 attendance. But UCLA? 337 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,080 They might get like 60,000 for attendance, and it looks like an 338 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,580 old MLS game. Where like there's, you know, 339 00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:17,660 oh, there's nobody in that. Yeah, stadium. 340 00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:19,420 And it's like, no, that's 60,000 people. 341 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:21,380 So there's still people. And there was still a lot of 342 00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:23,540 media coverage. Even with the return of the NFL, 343 00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:27,420 there was still a lot of interest in USC&UCLAI mean, and 344 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:29,380 you drive around, there's all those, you know, license play 345 00:18:29,380 --> 00:18:31,940 frames for alumni and fandom and all that other stuff. 346 00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:34,220 Can can I speak to the rest of the PAC 12? 347 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:39,690 Yeah, please do. No, sorry, I was saying. 348 00:18:39,690 --> 00:18:41,530 And I need a glass of water. My apologies. 349 00:18:41,770 --> 00:18:45,770 But Matt, unlike unlike me, Matt's not used to talking on 350 00:18:45,770 --> 00:18:47,810 podcasts for 90 minutes at a time. 351 00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:48,970 So you're excused. That's fine. 352 00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:51,170 I have. I have a very large bottle of 353 00:18:51,170 --> 00:18:53,650 water here. So anyway and some grapes. 354 00:18:53,890 --> 00:18:56,490 There you go. So anyway, you know, in 355 00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:59,130 Washington, I know that there was a lot of interest as well, 356 00:18:59,130 --> 00:19:01,570 especially with the loss of the Sonics. 357 00:19:02,270 --> 00:19:04,670 Which is largely why, you know MLS has thrived there as well. 358 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:09,430 So they're Washington fans and there are obviously Oregon fans. 359 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:14,550 They are very into it as well. But at the same time it is a 360 00:19:14,550 --> 00:19:18,180 whole thing where? Even in LA, on the West Coast, 361 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:21,180 there is a lot of, well, you know, we like sports, but you 362 00:19:21,180 --> 00:19:23,260 know, there's so many other really cool things to do out 363 00:19:23,260 --> 00:19:27,020 here. And so it's not the same level 364 00:19:27,020 --> 00:19:29,460 of passion like Stanford should have some of those passionate 365 00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:32,780 fans in the country and they just they just don't. 366 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:37,940 And same. And so it's kind of, it's it's 367 00:19:37,940 --> 00:19:40,940 not like it's the Big 10 collapsed or the SEC collapsed, 368 00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:44,900 which neither one would because the fans wouldn't let it happen. 369 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:46,340 The presidents wouldn't let it happen. 370 00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:49,780 The GM's, the AD's wouldn't let it happen and so on. 371 00:19:49,780 --> 00:19:51,460 The politicians wouldn't let it happen. 372 00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:55,860 And in California, of course, they tried to stop UCLA with 373 00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:57,740 like that weird vote. And then they were going to try 374 00:19:57,740 --> 00:20:02,060 to bring UCLA back with under like $50 million a year. 375 00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:03,820 They they offered them that and it was just. 376 00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:05,460 Really weird. Like they they were caught 377 00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:07,900 pretty flat footed. I think the politicians were out 378 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,580 there. So yeah, I think it's a lot of 379 00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:13,140 these fan bases will follow these teams to the new places. 380 00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:15,380 They'll just, they'll just fold into new rivalries. 381 00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:18,420 Because ultimately having a home at this point, if you're a PAC 382 00:20:18,420 --> 00:20:21,820 12 school, I think your fan base is just very, very relieved. 383 00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:26,820 So, you know, sad for Wazoo and Oregon State fans. 384 00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,700 Yeah, it's tough when you're when you're looking at them 385 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,340 getting courted by the Mountain West commissioner and the 386 00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:34,540 American Athletic Conference commissioner. 387 00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:38,620 It's like, God, I hate to see that, but well, yeah, and where 388 00:20:38,660 --> 00:20:40,900 you're at this point. That's to say that's where 389 00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:43,740 you're at at this point. If you them absolutely. 390 00:20:43,740 --> 00:20:45,500 And you mentioned earlier, you know, a lot of these things were 391 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:47,060 like, you know, do we hold hands? 392 00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:49,300 Do we dance, You know, kind of like a dating thing. 393 00:20:50,570 --> 00:20:53,610 And, you know, Oregon State of Washington state are, you know, 394 00:20:53,610 --> 00:20:57,370 the people, you know, left at the well left looking for a prom 395 00:20:57,370 --> 00:20:59,370 date. And now you know that the nerdy 396 00:20:59,370 --> 00:21:01,370 kids are coming to them and going, hey, you know what, we 397 00:21:01,370 --> 00:21:04,090 don't have a date either. And it's like, yeah, not you so. 398 00:21:05,850 --> 00:21:08,330 This doesn't sound like you're speaking from experience at all. 399 00:21:09,010 --> 00:21:12,130 So no, no, this is not a reference to my high school life 400 00:21:12,130 --> 00:21:15,730 at all. So let's talk about the. 401 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:20,820 Yeah, I guess we we've talked a lot about the the dissolution of 402 00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:23,300 the PAC 12 from a business perspective and and where the 403 00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:26,260 struggles came in. Obviously the big news right now 404 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:32,580 is this Cal, Stanford, maybe SMU, maybe to the ACC movement 405 00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:35,700 it's that's so. I mean you could make an 406 00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:40,290 argument that the Big 10. When they added Nebraska, when 407 00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:44,170 they added Rutgers, they really came out of their regional shell 408 00:21:44,170 --> 00:21:46,770 and and even though they only covered two time zones, even 409 00:21:46,770 --> 00:21:49,330 with those expansions they were more of a national conference. 410 00:21:49,330 --> 00:21:52,610 Because really, Nebraska doesn't have a lot in common culturally 411 00:21:52,930 --> 00:21:55,930 with anybody but Iowa in the Big 10 and Rutgers really didn't 412 00:21:55,930 --> 00:21:57,250 have that much in common with anybody. 413 00:21:57,250 --> 00:22:00,730 I guess, maybe mildly they had something in common with Penn 414 00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:03,670 State. But you know, you can make an 415 00:22:03,670 --> 00:22:06,150 argument that with those moves and with adding Maryland, which 416 00:22:06,150 --> 00:22:08,190 is really a Southern school, like they've broken out of the 417 00:22:08,190 --> 00:22:10,630 regional shell. And so adding the four West 418 00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:13,670 Coast schools seems at least within the characteristics of 419 00:22:13,670 --> 00:22:20,070 what they are aiming to do, A CC adding these three schools just 420 00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:24,110 feels completely, you know, it feels desperate, first of all, 421 00:22:24,270 --> 00:22:27,670 and it desperation and necessity are often times the same things, 422 00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:32,190 but it also feels like they. You know, this is a almost like 423 00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:34,790 a harbor of last resort for all of the parties. 424 00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:37,390 I don't think anybody if you would just put this out on the 425 00:22:37,390 --> 00:22:40,350 table a year ago and said hey Cal and Stanford, what about 426 00:22:40,350 --> 00:22:42,910 joining the ACC or ask the question in reverse. 427 00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:45,470 I think everybody's laughing you out of the room. 428 00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:50,830 Like obviously Cal and Stanford probably need this because I 429 00:22:50,830 --> 00:22:54,150 don't know where they go if they don't do it and and SMU's almost 430 00:22:54,150 --> 00:22:55,910 not important enough to mention in this. 431 00:22:55,910 --> 00:22:58,630 No offense to. Thad Matula and the and the the 432 00:22:58,630 --> 00:23:02,630 folks down in pony excess land. But I mean when you offer to not 433 00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:06,550 take any media distributions for seven years just so you can be 434 00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:09,430 part of the conference like you kind of remove yourself from the 435 00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:12,470 conversation at that point. But the Callen Stanford are 436 00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:14,350 different. I mean you know these are these 437 00:23:14,350 --> 00:23:17,070 are longstanding brands. Stanford obviously has you 438 00:23:17,070 --> 00:23:19,990 essentially sport by sport, I think the largest athletic 439 00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:23,070 department in the country. You know, is a bastion of all of 440 00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:25,670 these Olympic sports who has been competitive in the in the 441 00:23:25,670 --> 00:23:31,550 revenue generating sports. This just feels like it's a 442 00:23:31,550 --> 00:23:34,870 subject of ridicule and it's it's a bandaid at best. 443 00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:37,550 It's not a not a permanent solution for any of these 444 00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:41,970 parties. Well yeah like Stanford is. 445 00:23:42,010 --> 00:23:45,090 I mean for lack of it it's an extremely proud athletic program 446 00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:48,850 and what is it they they jockey for position with USC&UCLA for 447 00:23:48,850 --> 00:23:52,090 the most total national championships and there might be 448 00:23:52,090 --> 00:23:56,090 in all the Olympic quote non revenue sports mostly and but 449 00:23:56,090 --> 00:23:58,450 you know they're proud of their water polar dominance now 450 00:23:58,450 --> 00:24:02,170 similar to UC Santa Barbara winning ultimate frisbee 451 00:24:02,170 --> 00:24:04,330 national titles. I wonder who Stanford is 452 00:24:04,330 --> 00:24:08,690 competing against in sailing. But they still are winning these 453 00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:10,770 national titles. They're an athletic program as 454 00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:12,410 you said. I think it's Dem in Ohio State I 455 00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:16,090 think might have the two largest athletic departments in terms of 456 00:24:16,090 --> 00:24:17,610 number of. Something like that, yeah. 457 00:24:18,970 --> 00:24:24,370 And so in this case, you know, I think everybody when USC&UCLA 458 00:24:24,370 --> 00:24:27,650 left a year ago and we all kind of knew that Washington and 459 00:24:27,650 --> 00:24:31,130 Oregon would be the next move if the Big 10 made another move and 460 00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:34,170 and grabbing from the PAC 12 because they were just good fits 461 00:24:34,170 --> 00:24:36,850 overall academically, athletically, fan base and so 462 00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:39,370 on. But my fantasy of course was 463 00:24:40,350 --> 00:24:42,350 Stanford, Notre Dame. And that's not going to happen. 464 00:24:42,350 --> 00:24:46,070 Instead, Notre Dame, a non football member of the ACC, 465 00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:49,750 tried to throw its weight around and get the ACC to add Stanford 466 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:52,110 and Cal. And then certain ACC members 467 00:24:52,110 --> 00:24:55,430 looked at Notre Dame, apparently because these are all reports 468 00:24:55,630 --> 00:24:58,070 and so, well, who do you think you are type of thing. 469 00:24:58,590 --> 00:25:02,390 But it looks like I thought that ACC was set to add Stanford Cal 470 00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:05,030 and SMU the other day. But of course the tragedy 471 00:25:05,030 --> 00:25:06,830 happened at University of North Carolina. 472 00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:11,030 So it but this it's a weird fit and it is just a Band-Aid. 473 00:25:11,030 --> 00:25:14,070 At the same time, what it reminds me of is when the Big 12 474 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:19,310 lost Missouri, Texas, A and M, Colorado and Nebraska, and 475 00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:23,590 patched it up with schools which could charitably be called not 476 00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:25,670 quite that same caliber of state school. 477 00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:27,870 Right. Although TC just played for the 478 00:25:27,870 --> 00:25:30,950 national title. I need to acknowledge that but 479 00:25:32,150 --> 00:25:35,880 but it but it was the thing of but you know what we survived we 480 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,520 made it. You know, we're not the Big 481 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,320 East, for instance, and so if Stanford and Cowell. 482 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,040 The Big East, which notably was killed by the ACC, but we'll 483 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,560 come back to that in a second. Yes. 484 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,560 Yes. Yeah, very much, very much so. 485 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,640 And so in this case, Stanford and Cal, it's all about survival 486 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,360 at this point. And I think they, because, 487 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,440 again, they're very open about their academic profile. 488 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,080 I think they prefer the ACC before the Big 12 overall 489 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,000 because the Big 12 is very much a mishmash. 490 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,880 And the ACC at least could say that they're kind of a unified 491 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,960 other than North Carolina's fake classes. 492 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,880 Oh, excuse me. Anyway, sorry. 493 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,920 Yeah no, it's it is it is interesting because I mean this 494 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,480 is where trying to explain this to people who aren't in academia 495 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,640 is challenging because and and look it's not terribly 496 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,560 consistent and I understand how that looks with people because 497 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,760 you could say, well Callum Stanford just need to find a 498 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,040 port of of refuge. But they they do care about who 499 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,200 they associate themselves with institutionally from an 500 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,460 academics perspective and. While there are certainly some 501 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:48,780 good academic institutions in the Big 12, that is not a group 502 00:26:48,780 --> 00:26:51,900 of institutions that one would point to and say, wow, that's a 503 00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:55,580 great collection of academic institutions, you know, Whereas 504 00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:58,860 obviously, I mean the A/C and it's funny because the ACC, they 505 00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:02,300 have some high end schools who you would point to North, I 506 00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,900 guess North Carolina. You know, Boston College, 507 00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:09,700 Syracuse, some others. Virginia is certainly in that 508 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:12,540 mix, but they've also got their share of of kind of big 509 00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:15,700 twelveish style state schools that you know, North Carolina 510 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:19,420 State, Virginia Tech, you know, Florida State I think fits into 511 00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:23,380 that category to some degree. So it it it is, it is just an 512 00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:26,140 awkward fit. But it brings up a larger point 513 00:27:26,140 --> 00:27:29,180 that I think is worth mentioning from the ACC's perspective, 514 00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:31,080 which is. You wanted. 515 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,280 This very much reminds me of what the Big East tried to do 516 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760 when the Big East decided that they weren't satisfied with just 517 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,360 being a basketball conference in the 1980s. 518 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:46,000 You know, they go out and they add pit and they add Miami and 519 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,400 they add these other brands that are much stronger in football so 520 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,960 that they can bolster themselves and they end up with this weird 521 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,040 dichotomous conference where you've got basketball powers and 522 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,920 then you've got football powers and. 523 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,960 No one really knew where the power lay and they were primed 524 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,960 to be raided by a conference that was a little more together. 525 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,000 It's ironic that they were largely rated. 526 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,640 I mean yes, Rutgers left the biggies to go to the Big 10. 527 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,400 That's not really raiding the the biggies might have sent a 528 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,440 thank you note actually after that but but but you know but 529 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,760 the ACC going in and grabbing Miami and Virginia Tech and and 530 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,240 then and then later going in and grabbing. 531 00:28:25,730 --> 00:28:29,370 Syracuse and you know, basically making it so that the Big East 532 00:28:29,370 --> 00:28:32,890 couldn't continue viably and had to be reborn, you know, 533 00:28:32,890 --> 00:28:35,730 essentially later as as the Big East again, just it with a 534 00:28:35,770 --> 00:28:39,250 complete focus on basketball. It's just kind of it. 535 00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:42,890 It very much is reminiscent of what the ACC is trying to do now 536 00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:45,370 where they don't have the right mix of teams. 537 00:28:45,370 --> 00:28:49,970 They've got schools that are all over the map, both the actual 538 00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:52,730 map and in terms of what they want to do. 539 00:28:53,270 --> 00:28:55,870 You know what their organizational or institutional 540 00:28:55,870 --> 00:28:59,950 aims are, how dedicated or not they are to to academics, how 541 00:28:59,950 --> 00:29:01,870 dedicated or not they are to football. 542 00:29:02,390 --> 00:29:07,470 And now they're trying to add completely nonsensical fits from 543 00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:12,470 a a geographical perspective that are really you know they're 544 00:29:12,510 --> 00:29:15,550 these are largely at this point second or third tier football 545 00:29:15,550 --> 00:29:16,670 brands that they're trying to add. 546 00:29:16,670 --> 00:29:19,550 It's like that's that's probably not going to have any sort of 547 00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:22,750 positive longterm impact and could frankly hasten. 548 00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:27,870 The demise of the conference as a power because getting bigger 549 00:29:27,870 --> 00:29:30,910 at this point doesn't seem like it's the answer for a conference 550 00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:34,670 like the ACC. Well, it's interesting that you 551 00:29:34,670 --> 00:29:37,670 mentioned be the Big East trying to grab some schools and then of 552 00:29:37,670 --> 00:29:40,670 course the ACC grabbing some of those schools from them. 553 00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:44,070 You know what everybody's talking about the absurdity of 554 00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:45,470 the travel. What would these West Coast 555 00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:48,860 schools do? Going to the East Coast or the 556 00:29:48,860 --> 00:29:50,740 Midwest? You know the horror of this 557 00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:53,860 terrible? Well, Cincinnati and Louisville 558 00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:56,740 were in the Big East. Yeah, for some time. 559 00:29:57,060 --> 00:29:59,660 That E is pretty big. And it was. 560 00:29:59,780 --> 00:30:01,540 And then you. Know now the really Big East. 561 00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:03,700 Yes, sorry. Yeah, that's a really Big East. 562 00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:05,780 Yeah. And now Louisville's in the 563 00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:07,860 Atlantic Coast Conference. I don't know. 564 00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:11,020 I don't know if our listeners are familiar, but I mean, 565 00:30:11,020 --> 00:30:12,580 Louisville is in Northern Kentucky. 566 00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:15,940 Look, man, climate change works quick as all I can say. 567 00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:17,780 No, I'm kidding. Go ahead, Yeah. 568 00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:18,580 The coast. Yes. 569 00:30:18,820 --> 00:30:20,740 And. And so this absurdity was 570 00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:23,580 existing before the money got as big as it is now. 571 00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:26,180 Yeah, and that's the thing. The ACC, with the backing of 572 00:30:26,180 --> 00:30:28,420 ESPN for its network, that money is only going to get bigger. 573 00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:30,180 It'll never be SCC, Big 10 level. 574 00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:32,740 But they have the money to travel. 575 00:30:32,740 --> 00:30:37,660 They will figure this out. And so it's absurd on its face. 576 00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:42,530 But at the same time, college sports realignment has been 577 00:30:42,530 --> 00:30:46,210 absurd for some time. So let's, I mean, let's dive in 578 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:48,810 a little bit too. There was a piece that was 579 00:30:48,810 --> 00:30:52,170 written by by a colleague of ours actually Doctor Ariane 580 00:30:52,170 --> 00:30:54,570 Waite at the University of North Carolina. 581 00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:57,530 Ariane's been a sports management scholar for a long 582 00:30:57,530 --> 00:31:00,050 time. And you know the the, the one of 583 00:31:00,050 --> 00:31:04,250 the primary thrust of the piece really was essentially that. 584 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,760 You know college sports is aim has failed and that there's too 585 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,360 much money in the system and that you know what what the the 586 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,200 the explanation here is the ACC needs to resist expansion and 587 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,720 needs to consider like splitting football off and considering 588 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,680 that independently and you know I mean first and foremost I mean 589 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,760 I have I have a lot of respect for doctor weight and and her 590 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,640 her overall intellectual presence within the space. 591 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,800 But, and I've seen this kind of mentality put forward a bunch 592 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,160 like, you know, like, well, we've gone too far this time. 593 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,840 College sports and what, You know, it's not it's it's about 594 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,480 more than just money. And you know, we need to somehow 595 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,240 segregate football and what they're doing from the other 596 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,840 sports. And you know, it kind of makes 597 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:58,000 sense on its face if you're not really, I guess, attuned to the 598 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,160 commercial realities of a lot of this stuff. 599 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,090 But. I'm a little bit put off by by a 600 00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:05,730 couple of things with this line of argument. 601 00:32:05,730 --> 00:32:08,610 And I mean one of them is we'll get to all of them. 602 00:32:08,610 --> 00:32:12,090 But I guess the first one that we could start with is this idea 603 00:32:12,410 --> 00:32:16,210 that, you know, there was some kind of inflection point where 604 00:32:16,210 --> 00:32:19,370 all of this wouldn't have been rendered inevitable. 605 00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:23,730 Like somehow, oh, if we had, if we had stopped worrying so much 606 00:32:23,730 --> 00:32:27,090 about money, I don't know who the we is here and focus more on 607 00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:29,490 the educational mission of college athletics. 608 00:32:29,910 --> 00:32:32,590 Then somehow this all this wouldn't be taking place or 609 00:32:32,590 --> 00:32:34,670 would be lessened or would be more equitable. 610 00:32:35,910 --> 00:32:38,110 You know, I mean, Matt, one of the things that you and I talk 611 00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:42,470 about a bunch is, is this reality of finance and why 612 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:46,790 college and university systems engage in collegiate athletics 613 00:32:46,790 --> 00:32:50,430 at this level in the 1st place. And you know that I, like a lot 614 00:32:50,430 --> 00:32:53,590 of people in the Academy really focus on the educational aspects 615 00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:55,110 because that's what people in the Academy do. 616 00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:57,350 Professors are supposed to talk about academics and. 617 00:32:57,670 --> 00:33:00,110 You know, you're supposed to to be thinking about things along 618 00:33:00,110 --> 00:33:02,270 the lines of how is this educating people or how is this 619 00:33:02,270 --> 00:33:06,470 advancing humanity? But you know, we're on a 620 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:11,030 longterm track here with college sports that existed long before 621 00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:16,590 the current crop of leaders were put into place, where money has 622 00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:21,510 been the deciding factor in a whole number of changes and. 623 00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:25,130 The idea that it wasn't going to get to this point of that 624 00:33:25,130 --> 00:33:27,970 somehow, you know changing people's focus on to something 625 00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:32,010 else was going to fix this kind of ignores the realities of why 626 00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:35,290 these colleges and universities engage in this like it it I'm 627 00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:38,170 I'm sure there are people for whom education is still the 628 00:33:38,170 --> 00:33:40,810 primary purpose but those people generally are at the division 629 00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:43,450 two and three levels. Division One. 630 00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:46,410 If your if your institution is a member of a conference, that's 631 00:33:46,410 --> 00:33:52,340 an FBS level conference, I mean. The whole idea of an FBS, of an 632 00:33:52,340 --> 00:33:56,660 FBS level in Division One, which is a subset of a subset within 633 00:33:56,660 --> 00:34:00,460 college sports, is built around the very concept of money. 634 00:34:00,780 --> 00:34:06,020 And the idea that that money is generated by football and the 635 00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:08,699 other revenue producing sports and the sports that can be put 636 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:13,340 on television to fill advertising inventory, It's that 637 00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:15,420 has been the way things have gone for 20 years. 638 00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:18,659 Nothing this, frankly, nothing new here other than that. 639 00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:22,389 There's been more consolidation. The money isn't so much the 640 00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:24,630 issue, but the consolidation is the issue. 641 00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:26,630 But I don't know that that was ever something that could be 642 00:34:26,630 --> 00:34:29,909 really fixed given the governance structure of colleges 643 00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:32,310 and universities and how they decide to come together around 644 00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:39,150 these things. Well, there's a, there's a few 645 00:34:39,150 --> 00:34:41,830 different thoughts on this thing and and you've articulated 646 00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:43,389 you've already just mentioned a few of them. 647 00:34:44,150 --> 00:34:48,380 I guess my whole thing is, well, I know I made a joke to you the 648 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:51,340 other day and I've said it to a couple other people that college 649 00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:54,860 athletics with all the money flowing through, especially in 650 00:34:54,860 --> 00:34:58,420 the last couple decades since the BCS started and got really 651 00:34:58,420 --> 00:35:01,260 going. It's maybe one of the times when 652 00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:04,300 quote UN quote, trickle down economics actually works where 653 00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,460 you have all this money coming in from football and men's 654 00:35:06,460 --> 00:35:08,940 basketball and to an extent women's basketball, but again 655 00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:12,460 women's basketball. The payout for each for each 656 00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:15,820 unit in in their tournament is 0, whereas the men's basketball 657 00:35:15,820 --> 00:35:19,420 gets payment and football brings in the money as well. 658 00:35:20,260 --> 00:35:23,540 And yet, you know, here on our campus we've had to, we've 659 00:35:23,540 --> 00:35:26,620 gotten to renovate multiple venues and their locker rooms. 660 00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:29,300 I know what I U or the way I describe it to my students is 661 00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:32,020 Indiana University has no business having the money to 662 00:35:32,020 --> 00:35:35,420 renovate its football stadium. And yet it does because of 663 00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:37,100 what's going on with the conference and all the bowl 664 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:38,820 money there. And then all of a sudden you 665 00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:40,660 have a brand new baseball stadium, you have a brand new 666 00:35:40,660 --> 00:35:43,620 softball stadium, and there's more money for these things, 667 00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:46,540 largely because of all the money that the bigger sports bring in. 668 00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:51,740 So when we talk about separating football, it's it's kind of 669 00:35:51,740 --> 00:35:54,580 absurd because it really is Okay. 670 00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:57,780 That football drives, drives the drives the car, drives the van, 671 00:35:57,780 --> 00:36:01,860 drives the bus, because there's whatever vehicle you want, 672 00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:06,420 because that money does trickle down or trickle across. 673 00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:08,540 If you want to put all the sports on it on a similar level 674 00:36:08,540 --> 00:36:10,940 because all the athletes are, you know, they're all working 675 00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:16,130 crazy hours with you as well. So there's that. 676 00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:18,730 And then we have these situations where there's a lot 677 00:36:18,730 --> 00:36:22,170 of people are to say, yeah, if only could we have stopped the 678 00:36:22,170 --> 00:36:25,410 money. Well, the fact is that the money 679 00:36:25,410 --> 00:36:28,410 is big. And who are the most frontward 680 00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:32,770 facing people involved in any university that's in Division 681 00:36:32,770 --> 00:36:36,170 One sports, the athletes. And when they do positive things 682 00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:40,850 on the field, court or ice, that brings positive recognition. 683 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,200 I applied to Indiana. I wanted to apply to Indiana 684 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,040 back in the 90s cuz I thought coach Bob Knight was a real good 685 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,320 coach. And I thought that'd be really 686 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,280 awesome to be part of that whole thing. 687 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,760 And there are other people who were like that at the time. 688 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,800 And so now, like, like we won the national title in baseball a 689 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,630 couple of years ago, a bunch of my students talk. 690 00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:05,910 About we by we, you mean, you mean Mississippi State, where 691 00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:07,750 you're currently teaching. I'm sorry, Mississippi State? 692 00:37:07,870 --> 00:37:09,470 Yes, I was. Going to say why Indiana won the 693 00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:11,150 Big 10 pair, the National Baseball title. 694 00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:13,110 That's amazing. Mississippi State won the 695 00:37:13,110 --> 00:37:14,950 national title. Couple years in college baseball 696 00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:17,030 and it's of course a sport there's a lot of passion for 697 00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:19,110 here. And you bet a lot of the 698 00:37:19,110 --> 00:37:22,190 students talk about, yeah, everywhere I went for a couple 699 00:37:22,190 --> 00:37:25,310 weeks after that, I wanted to wear something maroon and white 700 00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:27,470 that said Mississippi State on it so that people would say, 701 00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:31,570 hey, hey pretty good. Of course I remember being in 702 00:37:31,570 --> 00:37:34,410 our being a Disney World the day after night was fired wearing an 703 00:37:34,410 --> 00:37:37,690 Indiana sweatshirt and I got hey what's up tonight at least four 704 00:37:37,690 --> 00:37:42,650 or five times when I was there. So it takes all kinds but but 705 00:37:42,730 --> 00:37:45,170 that that's another thing is though that the athletics do 706 00:37:45,170 --> 00:37:48,730 bring in as we as you've talked about already and on these they 707 00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:51,170 do bring in more applications. They do bring in more positive 708 00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:55,650 recognition of different things of the university and that 709 00:37:55,650 --> 00:37:57,930 juices the university. I mean big time athletics are 710 00:37:57,930 --> 00:38:00,810 not bad for a university at all in my opinion. 711 00:38:00,890 --> 00:38:04,370 I'm and it's like, well, you know, there's too much money 712 00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:06,690 flowing through. Yeah, but if you're one of the 713 00:38:06,690 --> 00:38:09,970 universities that has a piece of that money, you're doing OK cuz 714 00:38:09,970 --> 00:38:12,850 right now Stanford and Cal are loving the idea that getting a 715 00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:15,370 piece of that money. I mean, it's interesting because 716 00:38:16,050 --> 00:38:22,490 I the money is great when it's being what it's having an impact 717 00:38:22,490 --> 00:38:24,810 on, the things that you want it to have an impact on. 718 00:38:25,410 --> 00:38:28,570 And then not when it's not. And that that I think is 719 00:38:28,570 --> 00:38:32,650 probably my biggest concern about some of The opinions 720 00:38:32,650 --> 00:38:34,130 expressed. And this is not something that's 721 00:38:34,130 --> 00:38:36,930 unique to to Ariane's piece, but it's something that I see 722 00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:39,170 elsewhere. It's like everybody's fine and 723 00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:42,330 happy and has been for the last 20 years with the money. 724 00:38:42,610 --> 00:38:45,970 When the money has paid for a brand new softball stadium, a 725 00:38:45,970 --> 00:38:48,610 brand new track and field facility, a brand new swimming 726 00:38:48,610 --> 00:38:51,810 facility, these are facilities as I'm want to. 727 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,800 Point out that don't exist anywhere else in the world 728 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,960 except at, like National Olympic Training Centers. 729 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,440 And we essentially have 60 or 70 National Olympic Training 730 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,800 Centers in various sports across the country on college campuses, 731 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,800 paid for by the revenue generated from television 732 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,160 contracts built almost entirely on the backs of football and to 733 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,800 a lesser extent, men's basketball. 734 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,840 I mean, that's just the reality. You can. 735 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,000 You can dislike the reality but that's not a debatable thing. 736 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:28,520 So you're okay with that. You're okay with the travel the 737 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,200 increase in coaches salaries all of these things that have come 738 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,240 along with that money. But the you know the the 739 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:40,800 Faustian bargain I guess you could say with that is it is now 740 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,160 dependent on our is your brand as a university athletically and 741 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,480 and it is the the brand of the conference that you're 742 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,500 associated with. Viable enough from a commercial 743 00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:55,900 perspective that it can continue to generate that amount of money 744 00:39:56,980 --> 00:40:00,380 and you know with it, with there's an added thing there. 745 00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:04,740 Are you able to put yourself in a position where you can be at 746 00:40:04,740 --> 00:40:08,220 the level that your alumni and your prospective students and 747 00:40:08,220 --> 00:40:11,780 your corporate partners that have been buying signage to help 748 00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:14,900 pay for everything and. And, you know, signing apparel 749 00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:18,340 contracts, can you be in a position where you can continue 750 00:40:18,340 --> 00:40:21,260 to collect from those people, whether it's through donations 751 00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:23,260 from alums or whether it's through applications from 752 00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:26,260 incoming students? And, you know, to say that while 753 00:40:26,260 --> 00:40:28,820 the ACC needs to resist expanding, they need to double 754 00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:31,340 down on the education. It's like, well, that's all well 755 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:34,220 and good if you're in North Carolina, for instance, who? 756 00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:39,340 Who, despite the academic malfeasance of that institution 757 00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:42,780 over the course of time, still isn't an international brand. 758 00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:45,310 I'm sorry, but it's just true. I'm tired of people not 759 00:40:45,310 --> 00:40:49,710 mentioning that, you know, but you know, it's fine if you're 760 00:40:49,710 --> 00:40:51,110 them. It's not so fine if you're North 761 00:40:51,110 --> 00:40:53,030 Carolina State. I mean, what kind of national 762 00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:56,310 profile does North Carolina State have as an institution? 763 00:40:56,790 --> 00:41:00,030 Are people, are they really getting applications from across 764 00:41:00,030 --> 00:41:03,070 the country, from people interested in going there if 765 00:41:03,070 --> 00:41:06,550 they are not active in highlevel college athletics? 766 00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:08,790 And. And that's the part that I I get 767 00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:11,330 frustrated with. It's like you can't just on the 768 00:41:11,330 --> 00:41:15,610 one hand say, well, we want all these benefits and we like 769 00:41:15,610 --> 00:41:17,490 everything that's happened the last 20 years. 770 00:41:17,490 --> 00:41:21,490 And and and you know, the the indirect benefits of the money 771 00:41:21,490 --> 00:41:24,370 that's been made by college football and college basketball 772 00:41:24,370 --> 00:41:26,330 at least, you know, I mean really both the men's and 773 00:41:26,330 --> 00:41:30,770 women's, but primarily the men's has financed the expansion of 774 00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:33,090 women's sports. It's financed, you know, through 775 00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:35,450 through, you know, Title 9 opportunities. 776 00:41:35,450 --> 00:41:39,940 The ability of of US females to be the, you know, the best in 777 00:41:39,940 --> 00:41:42,460 the world that many of the sports that they are competing 778 00:41:42,460 --> 00:41:47,460 in, you know it's allowed. Students who want to compete at 779 00:41:47,460 --> 00:41:50,100 the collegiate level where there is no national professional 780 00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:51,860 league, The ability to participate in the de facto 781 00:41:51,860 --> 00:41:54,900 professional league, you know, whether that's in in wrestling 782 00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:57,060 or in track and field or any of these other things. 783 00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:00,740 And then be upset when it's like, well, here's what it now 784 00:42:00,740 --> 00:42:02,940 that money from football is dictating. 785 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:07,380 I mean, this is where things have headed and ultimately it's 786 00:42:07,580 --> 00:42:09,820 is it greed? It kind of is. 787 00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:14,100 But you know, the the it's that's not like the institutions 788 00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:16,220 making this money and getting this attention. 789 00:42:16,220 --> 00:42:18,420 It's it's not like individual enrichment. 790 00:42:18,780 --> 00:42:22,580 It is a competition and it's not that different from what you see 791 00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:24,940 on the academic side. I mean, it's not like all the 792 00:42:24,940 --> 00:42:27,420 universities in the world are holding hands and singing 793 00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:30,700 kumbaya and splitting research grants. 794 00:42:30,980 --> 00:42:34,130 They're, you know, most of these universities, especially at the 795 00:42:34,130 --> 00:42:37,410 research one level are are cutthroat with each other, 796 00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:40,970 hiring away professors and, you know, edging out other 797 00:42:40,970 --> 00:42:44,410 competitors for NIH grants or or NEA grants. 798 00:42:44,410 --> 00:42:48,850 And, you know, it's that is how the rest of the educational 799 00:42:48,850 --> 00:42:51,770 establishment works. It's weird that somehow we 800 00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:56,370 expect this, you know, fog of altruism to be, you know, 801 00:42:56,370 --> 00:43:00,110 enveloping college sports. It just it feels a little bit 802 00:43:00,190 --> 00:43:02,990 like it misses the mark a bit, I guess, from my perspective. 803 00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:06,510 Well, absolutely. I mean, and I'd add to that 804 00:43:06,510 --> 00:43:10,070 academic competition, you know, building state-of-the-art dorms 805 00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:13,390 and new academic buildings and different things of that nature 806 00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:16,270 where they're all trying to lure students are all trying to lure 807 00:43:16,270 --> 00:43:19,070 professors, They're in competition with each other. 808 00:43:19,070 --> 00:43:23,910 And that's not a bad thing. And so in sport, I mean it's 809 00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:26,030 funny you what is NC State's brand? 810 00:43:26,030 --> 00:43:27,670 And I always think to my I was thinking to myself. 811 00:43:28,220 --> 00:43:30,420 Hey, I can only show that video of Jim Valveno running around 812 00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:32,100 the court hugging people so many times. 813 00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:35,180 They don't really have a great academic, athletic brand. 814 00:43:35,180 --> 00:43:37,620 Athletic brand. Excuse me, but they have, they 815 00:43:37,660 --> 00:43:39,700 have Archie Miller bat. Come on. 816 00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:42,620 That's true. And point guard. 817 00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:45,140 What is it with all ACC tournament point guard I think 818 00:43:45,980 --> 00:43:48,220 let's let's not recap Archie Miller. 819 00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:51,100 I was. I was very excited to his coach. 820 00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:58,740 Go on, go on. It's not revisit that chapter 821 00:43:59,860 --> 00:44:04,220 but but yeah that's and and and it's and as I've said before 822 00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:08,060 what reminds me of is the people who I love football who say I 823 00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:11,100 love football but now that I know that they are getting 824 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:14,140 concussions out there I I just can't watch anymore. 825 00:44:14,140 --> 00:44:18,340 It's a disgusting sport and and my response is is twofold #1. 826 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,840 We watch football because it is the OR a lot of us watch 827 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,200 football I think because it is the best combination of chess 828 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,760 match and sudden wanton violence in American sport. 829 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,320 I mean just there's there's excitement either way. 830 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,200 But some related to that it is said that basically aside from I 831 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,840 always, I always say that the the two positions on the field 832 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,000 who talk the most trash are corners and whiteouts because 833 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,000 they only have to be worried, worried about being hit by the 834 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,030 other skinny guy. But, but the rest of the field 835 00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:52,710 running backs are saying nothing because you know, they're 836 00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:55,350 they're, you know, they're in danger on every play basically. 837 00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:58,550 And so when people look at the football, it's been described as 838 00:44:59,110 --> 00:45:02,550 you know 8 car crashes on every single play or whatever or 839 00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:06,190 however many. And so I guess roundabout way to 840 00:45:06,190 --> 00:45:08,870 get to my point of what sport did they think they were 841 00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:12,950 watching? And with this revenue stuff with 842 00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:16,830 football you know when 80,000 people show up to the stadium or 843 00:45:16,830 --> 00:45:21,350 90,000 have a bigger stadium is or 53,000 show up to your 844 00:45:21,350 --> 00:45:27,590 stadium and and are there to watch people play a sport that 845 00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:32,750 has a very very high injury rate and is very brutal sport but is 846 00:45:32,750 --> 00:45:36,510 there make money it is massively popular all day Saturday we have 847 00:45:36,510 --> 00:45:39,700 a remote control from. You know, on on the West Coast 848 00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:42,580 time, it'd be, you know, 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM you're watching 849 00:45:42,580 --> 00:45:48,180 football for 12 straight hours. And so again, what did people 850 00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:52,060 think they were watching like in terms of, of course, the revenue 851 00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:54,500 is huge. Of course, the revenue will not 852 00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:55,980 always go to places you want it to. 853 00:45:55,980 --> 00:45:59,860 And what I think also gets lost in this, like you mentioned the 854 00:45:59,900 --> 00:46:03,940 fact that N Carolina's academic choices. 855 00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:05,940 Have been swept under the rug so much. 856 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:11,700 Well, the fact is 2030, forty years ago, a lot of these guys 857 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:15,660 playing football, they were just kept eligible and the system 858 00:46:15,660 --> 00:46:17,500 would basically chew them up and spit them out. 859 00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:21,540 At least now we have some accountability with a PR and and 860 00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:25,020 progress toward graduation. And we both had. 861 00:46:26,830 --> 00:46:29,950 Want to get too into it, but we both know that football players, 862 00:46:29,950 --> 00:46:32,510 basketball players on all athletes are. 863 00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:34,910 The idea is to get them to graduate. 864 00:46:34,990 --> 00:46:37,350 And so I hate when there's all this hold. 865 00:46:37,390 --> 00:46:39,830 It's similar to people complaining by the BCS what BCS 866 00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:42,270 doesn't work, yeah, but it's better than the system we had, 867 00:46:42,270 --> 00:46:44,430 man. And so the systems can always 868 00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:48,190 improve just a little bit or even a lot bit as we go forward. 869 00:46:48,270 --> 00:46:50,870 Well, that's the thing. I mean there's look there. 870 00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:53,790 I think the thing that's fundamentally hard for people to 871 00:46:53,790 --> 00:46:57,970 get their heads wrapped around is that universities, yes, 872 00:46:57,970 --> 00:47:00,250 they're in the business of education, but they're also in 873 00:47:00,250 --> 00:47:03,610 the business of of making revenue to sustain themselves 874 00:47:03,610 --> 00:47:06,410 and to grow because that's what's been asked of them. 875 00:47:06,410 --> 00:47:09,730 And and that has been doubly important with state 876 00:47:09,730 --> 00:47:13,410 legislatures cutting funding to colleges and universities in 877 00:47:13,410 --> 00:47:15,810 their own states, public universities that never used to 878 00:47:15,810 --> 00:47:17,810 have to rely on that. And it's like so we've had a 30 879 00:47:17,810 --> 00:47:22,770 year plus period now of budgets and approaches having to be 880 00:47:22,770 --> 00:47:26,040 shifted, you know, away from what we're just going to educate 881 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,080 people and we're going, you know, we're not going to do job 882 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,360 training, we're going to, you know, just teach people the arts 883 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,880 and the sciences. And it's like well that's not 884 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:38,200 going to draw particularly well in an era where a, college is 885 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:43,320 expensive, B, the education is in a lot of ways kind of 886 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,640 interchangeable from university to university. 887 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,280 And So what are you selling? You're selling the student 888 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,560 experience. How do you do that? 889 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,900 And you know what? What is hard, maybe hard is the 890 00:47:54,900 --> 00:47:57,100 wrong word. But what is difficult for people 891 00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:59,780 who don't want to acknowledge that to get their heads wrapped 892 00:47:59,780 --> 00:48:04,740 around is that sports are a great way to sell a student 893 00:48:04,740 --> 00:48:08,020 experience that is unique from what you would get elsewhere. 894 00:48:08,020 --> 00:48:09,620 And it's one of them, a number of other things. 895 00:48:09,620 --> 00:48:12,900 But it's the most high profile. And as I always talk about you 896 00:48:12,900 --> 00:48:15,620 know, we, I use Butler University as an example in 897 00:48:15,620 --> 00:48:19,020 class where you know Butler makes 2 back-to-back national 898 00:48:19,020 --> 00:48:21,140 championships in men's basketball. 899 00:48:21,890 --> 00:48:25,770 And The upshot of that was that their applications all across 900 00:48:25,770 --> 00:48:27,690 the country go through the roof. Why? 901 00:48:27,930 --> 00:48:30,810 Because Butler see much like you talking about wanting to go to I 902 00:48:30,810 --> 00:48:33,970 U, because you know Bob Knight was a really good basketball 903 00:48:33,970 --> 00:48:36,930 coach. People look at that experience 904 00:48:36,930 --> 00:48:39,050 and they're like wow, Butler sounds like the place to go. 905 00:48:39,050 --> 00:48:42,450 Alabama's had that their their presence since the Saban era 906 00:48:42,450 --> 00:48:45,170 started has gone national because they are so successful 907 00:48:45,170 --> 00:48:46,730 and that's part of the experience. 908 00:48:47,050 --> 00:48:50,280 You can argue that that shouldn't be part of the the 909 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,280 the, the equation that's used to determine what a university 910 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:55,840 does. You you can argue that. 911 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,360 But I don't know how much that argument would carry weight 912 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,040 given the realities financially of the situation and the fact 913 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,440 that most of I would say pretty much all of the schools, with 914 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,680 maybe one or two exceptions that currently exist in the FPS level 915 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,160 of college football. And ironically Stanford is one 916 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:19,130 of those need and want to have that national marketing 917 00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:24,850 perspective and or need to do the type of alumni service that 918 00:49:24,850 --> 00:49:28,090 really you only get when you have high level college sports 919 00:49:28,090 --> 00:49:31,730 that are competing you know and and and fighting for titles and 920 00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:33,970 fighting you know and winning games on a national level. 921 00:49:33,970 --> 00:49:36,650 I mean, Stanford doesn't need to sell itself as an academic 922 00:49:36,650 --> 00:49:40,130 destination, but it has a lot of alums for whom, you know, 923 00:49:40,170 --> 00:49:44,050 success on the athletic field or on the floor is important. 924 00:49:44,090 --> 00:49:46,360 And you know, that's why they're still in it. 925 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,360 I think that's why Vanderbilt and Duke and, you know, schools 926 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,840 like Rice are in it. I mean, these are fine academic 927 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,520 institutions. They would probably be fine on 928 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,480 their own. But they themselves are in a 929 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,960 huge battle over, you know, who's going to apply, who's 930 00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:03,080 going to enroll, how are they going to lift their profile so 931 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,120 that they stand out amongst other peers who on paper all 932 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,360 kind of look the same. And I mean, the number of 933 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,520 schools that don't have to do that. 934 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,760 I mean, what the Ivy League schools, Chicago, Caltech. 935 00:50:14,130 --> 00:50:16,850 I mean, there's not that many, you know, other than the really 936 00:50:16,850 --> 00:50:19,690 small private schools in the Northeast and and you know, some 937 00:50:19,690 --> 00:50:21,650 of the highly religious schools, there aren't a whole lot of 938 00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:24,170 other places that can just afford to not worry about that 939 00:50:24,170 --> 00:50:28,920 kind of thing. Well and you mentioned Stanford 940 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,320 and its national profile, its embrace of victory in the OR of 941 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,600 high performance in the non revenue quote UN quote Olympic 942 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:41,560 sports gives it an international profile and athletics in in a 943 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,360 lot of these places. I mean, I've been at places 944 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,120 where half the tennis team was from overseas or half the golf 945 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,920 team was from overseas and that's the other thing is the 946 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,200 athletics by offering scholarships that it is a unique 947 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,030 system. College athletics pretty much in 948 00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:56,870 the world. So by having scholarships to 949 00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:59,910 people from overseas, that increases the international 950 00:51:00,630 --> 00:51:03,510 footprint as well and makes these schools be able to say, 951 00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:06,870 you know, we are not just getting people from our state or 952 00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:10,230 from our adjacent states, we're getting people. 953 00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:12,990 You know, we have an Australian who just, you know, won the 954 00:51:12,990 --> 00:51:16,750 conference title on our tennis team or South African on our on 955 00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:20,550 our men's golf team, and so on and so on and so. 956 00:51:21,370 --> 00:51:23,970 And that's another thing that that athletics brings and for 957 00:51:23,970 --> 00:51:26,290 these schools that again, there's too much focus on 958 00:51:26,290 --> 00:51:28,090 football. I think because football does 959 00:51:28,090 --> 00:51:30,490 drive, does drive all of the realignment. 960 00:51:30,850 --> 00:51:35,330 But athletics overall like that, when you see a lot of the 961 00:51:35,330 --> 00:51:38,730 garment rending where it's like, oh, football, it's too big, it's 962 00:51:38,730 --> 00:51:41,130 so bad. But well, no, it's not too big 963 00:51:41,130 --> 00:51:44,650 and it's not bad. But then it also that that 964 00:51:45,330 --> 00:51:47,490 positive attention can flow through an entire athletic 965 00:51:47,490 --> 00:51:49,130 department and thus a university. 966 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,040 Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to continue to see debates 967 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,920 on these things. And, you know, whether or not 968 00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,400 the ACC decides to to bring in Cal, Stanford and SMU or not, 969 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,840 it's not the end of the story. Because as we mentioned earlier, 970 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,880 it feels like a bandaid because it feels like Florida State 971 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,400 would like to get to a higher profile conference. 972 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,000 It feels like Clemson would like to you know it's ironic that you 973 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,920 you know, I I find 2 ironic things about people who are like 974 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,610 well you know you you guys killed the PAC 12 and that was 975 00:52:18,610 --> 00:52:21,570 awful. You better not kill the ACC to a 976 00:52:22,850 --> 00:52:25,730 the you know they could. The ACC could absolutely 977 00:52:25,730 --> 00:52:29,770 guarantee its longterm survival if Notre Dame would just join 978 00:52:29,770 --> 00:52:33,810 the conference as a full Member. But but Notre Dame refuses to do 979 00:52:33,810 --> 00:52:37,570 that because Notre Dame, who loves to talk about the moral 980 00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:41,010 implications of college sports across the board, is clearly 981 00:52:41,010 --> 00:52:43,090 only interested in what's best for Notre Dame. 982 00:52:43,090 --> 00:52:45,610 And I'm not begrudging them that, but spare me the 983 00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:48,640 sanctimony if that's your perspective, that the other 984 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,160 thing I'll say is that these kinds of things to me ring 985 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:57,040 really hollow from a CC land when the ACC, as we mentioned 986 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,880 earlier, killed the Big East, actively murdered it, it wasn't 987 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,160 like a passive well, we're going to cut your food off and lock 988 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,720 you in the cellar like they went in and cut every vital organ out 989 00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:10,600 of the Big East, causing the Big East to collapse in the span of 990 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,080 a decade. And it's like, so it was fine 991 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,960 back then. It was fine to, you know, force 992 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,920 the the Big East to completely change its financial model and 993 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,200 all of those schools and all those athletes to have to deal 994 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,280 with that. But now suddenly, you know 995 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,960 what's good for the goose is no no longer good for the gander. 996 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,000 That really, that really smacks of of hypocrisy. 997 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,440 The same kind of hypocrisy that's being complained about 998 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,160 with all the things that have gone on elsewhere in college 999 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,780 sports. Well, yeah, it's it's really 1000 00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:40,500 weird the lack of that historical perspective like 1001 00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:44,220 conference realignment did not start when Jim Delaney said what 1002 00:53:44,220 --> 00:53:49,500 back in 2010 that we're that the Big 10 is exploring expansion 1003 00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:52,580 and everybody freaked out and Missouri's governor begged us, 1004 00:53:52,660 --> 00:53:54,940 begged the Big 10 first spot and all that other stuff. 1005 00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:59,060 Yeah, it it didn't start then and and again we've talked about 1006 00:53:59,060 --> 00:54:02,670 before all of the. Where the the media was 1007 00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:06,190 breathlessly saying there's going to be a PAC16A, Big 16 and 1008 00:54:06,190 --> 00:54:09,990 a CC-16 and SCC16, it's going to be crazy. 1009 00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:12,150 And then they're going to kill the NCAA. 1010 00:54:12,550 --> 00:54:15,790 And that didn't happen, of course, but that was there. 1011 00:54:15,790 --> 00:54:18,190 That's what they wanted. And now a lot of those same 1012 00:54:18,190 --> 00:54:21,990 media members are saying, Oh my goodness, I can't believe this 1013 00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:23,950 expansion. It's so weird, so strange. 1014 00:54:24,030 --> 00:54:26,270 Are are the conferences getting too big? 1015 00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:29,790 What happened to the PAC 12? And it's like Y'all gleefully 1016 00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:34,350 we're promoting the. Idea of you know the whole thing 1017 00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:38,750 hitting a Wrecking Ball take take taken to it and collapsing 1018 00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:41,990 and then being these super duper conferences and now that it's 1019 00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:46,470 happening you're you're like whoa, what what what what 1020 00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:48,710 happened? We don't understand this you 1021 00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:51,670 know and it didn't. But what this? 1022 00:54:52,030 --> 00:54:55,470 This is the this is the classic. Like, I never thought leopards 1023 00:54:55,470 --> 00:54:58,510 would eat my face. Moment of college sports, right? 1024 00:54:59,510 --> 00:55:03,190 Yes, absolutely. And and it reminds me of all of 1025 00:55:03,190 --> 00:55:06,830 all the the baseball writers who knew exactly what was going on 1026 00:55:06,830 --> 00:55:09,910 in the late 90s and promoted all that and now say I will never 1027 00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:11,230 vote one of them into the Hall of Fame. 1028 00:55:11,230 --> 00:55:14,710 It's the integrity of the game. And I said, well, OK, and then 1029 00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:16,390 wait, what? You mean having? 1030 00:55:16,590 --> 00:55:20,550 Having an open bottle of of Andro next to your locker isn't 1031 00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:23,110 just part of a normal, like, workout plan mad. 1032 00:55:23,150 --> 00:55:25,720 I'm shocked. Well, yeah. 1033 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,280 What amazing workouts Roger Clemens does. 1034 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,680 Yeah, amazing. Where's the needle? 1035 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,160 Yeah. So, yeah, it's. 1036 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:40,000 So it's it's so much like it is hypocrisy that is created by a 1037 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,640 willingness to look the other way. 1038 00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:43,240 Well and now. Yeah, go ahead. 1039 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,600 Sorry, go ahead. Well, and now we see some of 1040 00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,160 these writers I won't, I won't name. 1041 00:55:48,890 --> 00:55:51,090 Name the writers but it's some of these writers like Stuart 1042 00:55:51,090 --> 00:55:54,850 Mandel are are sitting there trying to say on on their 1043 00:55:54,850 --> 00:55:58,330 platforms well here's what's going to happen next and I'm 1044 00:55:58,330 --> 00:56:01,810 proposing a football Super League like that soccer one. 1045 00:56:02,010 --> 00:56:06,170 Well, A, the soccer one didn't happen and because every there 1046 00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:11,090 was an up uproar and B, it's a lot of these guys are mostly 1047 00:56:11,410 --> 00:56:15,250 trying to get. Ahead of the story that they 1048 00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:18,090 have never been ahead of like all this comments realignment 1049 00:56:18,090 --> 00:56:20,250 like after they all got egg on their face from Texas and 1050 00:56:20,250 --> 00:56:23,410 Oklahoma and then USC and UCLA made their moves they're like 1051 00:56:23,410 --> 00:56:25,490 oh, which we're now we're going to try to predict what happens 1052 00:56:25,490 --> 00:56:29,850 next and said you can't you can't because these machinations 1053 00:56:29,850 --> 00:56:32,130 are happening in backrooms. It is wild. 1054 00:56:32,130 --> 00:56:35,530 I mean, I I think a lot about that from the standpoint of 1055 00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:39,660 first of all the, the immediate leap of logic, like what were, 1056 00:56:39,660 --> 00:56:41,420 you know, we're right on the precipice of the Super League 1057 00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:43,460 with only 30 or so teams being involved. 1058 00:56:43,460 --> 00:56:46,860 It's like well, are we? I mean, if you, if you think 1059 00:56:46,860 --> 00:56:50,580 about it, like, first of all, they've been trying to do the 1060 00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:52,860 Super League in Europe for 30 years now. 1061 00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:56,140 I want to say, I mean this is, this is an idea that keeps like 1062 00:56:56,340 --> 00:56:59,660 arriving and then departing and then new new folks come in 1063 00:57:00,140 --> 00:57:02,860 because of the way. And again, this is like you need 1064 00:57:02,860 --> 00:57:04,660 to know the historical aspects of this. 1065 00:57:04,660 --> 00:57:06,620 You need to understand why things work the way that they 1066 00:57:06,620 --> 00:57:09,950 work. The the cultural obstacles and 1067 00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:12,990 the business obstacles of a Super League and European soccer 1068 00:57:12,990 --> 00:57:14,910 make it essentially impossible to do. 1069 00:57:14,910 --> 00:57:17,910 You already have a Super League in America in in European soccer 1070 00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:19,390 it's called the Champions League. 1071 00:57:19,870 --> 00:57:23,910 The idea of having another one on top of it is not something 1072 00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:26,150 that the individual countries will countenance. 1073 00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:29,190 And I think that that's pretty much been proven as as the way 1074 00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:33,960 that things are because again Europe is a bunch of different 1075 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,360 countries. Yes, you have the European 1076 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,800 Union, but it is a bunch of and I mean the key, some of the key 1077 00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,720 brands are in England, which is no longer part of that. 1078 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,480 So that's a separate thing to put aside. 1079 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,400 But if you think about the US and college sports, it's a 1080 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,720 similar kind of constraint in a different way in that yes, you, 1081 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,560 you're all under one roof in terms of you're all under the US 1082 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,920 government. But as we've already seen with 1083 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,160 some of these conversations, there are still affiliation 1084 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,000 elements to who wants to get in bed with whom. 1085 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:09,640 That limits, you know, the Big 10 and the SEC from just 1086 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,320 grabbing everybody because Big 10 schools don't want to have 1087 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,360 subpar academic teams or academic schools in their 1088 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,920 conferences. And SEC doesn't really want to 1089 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,560 break out of its regional footprint. 1090 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,320 And you know, there are cultural elements involved in this that 1091 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,770 are either they're not just things that can be easily 1092 00:58:26,770 --> 00:58:30,170 dispersed of it's it's not formed like the NFL. 1093 00:58:30,170 --> 00:58:32,730 It is a bunch of independent businesses. 1094 00:58:33,010 --> 00:58:35,450 Some of them are public, you know, university, some of them 1095 00:58:35,450 --> 00:58:38,570 are private institutions. But it is a bunch of independent 1096 00:58:38,570 --> 00:58:42,290 businesses who have trouble coming together to decide on, 1097 00:58:42,290 --> 00:58:45,810 like how many muffins should be on the tray that you give to 1098 00:58:45,810 --> 00:58:48,970 football recruits when they come in to tour the facilities and 1099 00:58:48,970 --> 00:58:51,010 they're somehow going to put a Super League together. 1100 00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:55,110 It just seems implausible, like it seems a lot more likely. 1101 00:58:55,230 --> 00:58:58,750 If you go back and look at the history, It was 1978 when 1102 00:58:58,750 --> 00:59:02,990 Division One split, and essentially the programs that 1103 00:59:02,990 --> 00:59:06,150 could be serious about football and fill the stands and we're in 1104 00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:09,670 the big conferences, became Division 1A, which became FBS 1105 00:59:09,870 --> 00:59:12,630 and everybody else went to Division One AA, which became 1106 00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:15,940 FCS. It's a lot more likely that you 1107 00:59:15,940 --> 00:59:21,980 would see division 1FBS split in half and have like 65 to 70 1108 00:59:21,980 --> 00:59:26,140 teams in the top tier and then the remainder the the group of 1109 00:59:26,140 --> 00:59:28,460 five conferences or whatever group of six. 1110 00:59:28,460 --> 00:59:30,860 I guess if you want to add the remnants of the PAC 12, it's a 1111 00:59:30,860 --> 00:59:33,420 lot more likely that they would end up being in kind of a 1112 00:59:33,420 --> 00:59:37,540 division that straddles the line between FBS&FCS. 1113 00:59:37,980 --> 00:59:41,820 Then you would have, like, that get cut in half again. 1114 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,680 But yeah, I mean, look, anything's possible, but it 1115 00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:49,120 seems really unlikely we're going to go from 131 teams to 31 1116 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:53,040 teams in the span of a year, given all of the different 1117 00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,960 cultural and political realities that exist within the college 1118 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,320 football landscape. Well, that's The thing is, if 1119 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,880 somebody wants to talk about the absurdity of the money flying 1120 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,600 through or flowing through college football, and they want 1121 01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,320 to say that the Power Five soon to be Power Four, should 1122 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,280 separate from the Group of Five, I'm listening. 1123 01:00:11,710 --> 01:00:13,430 Because when you look at those numbers, what is it like? 1124 01:00:13,470 --> 01:00:18,150 Every Power 5 conference right now gets 60 or $70 million from 1125 01:00:18,510 --> 01:00:21,750 the playoffs before any bowl games are assigned every year. 1126 01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:24,390 That's what they get. And the group, the entire group 1127 01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:27,990 of five, gets like $65 million to divide amongst themselves. 1128 01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:32,790 And that's why Ball State is playing at Georgia this year. 1129 01:00:32,830 --> 01:00:35,110 Yeah, you know, because they, they need those money games. 1130 01:00:35,110 --> 01:00:37,250 They need those. Here's $1,000,000 or a million 1131 01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:40,610 point five, 1.5 million, please come in and get your head beat 1132 01:00:40,610 --> 01:00:42,490 in. Now go home and pay every single 1133 01:00:42,490 --> 01:00:45,330 coach on your entire athletic department with that money. 1134 01:00:45,570 --> 01:00:49,570 That disparity is something I'm interested in talking about. 1135 01:00:49,570 --> 01:00:51,330 But then they always say, well, what about, you know, the times 1136 01:00:51,330 --> 01:00:53,690 when there's giant killers? Well, yeah, but those are going 1137 01:00:53,690 --> 01:00:56,570 to get fewer and further between with the disparities and 1138 01:00:56,570 --> 01:00:58,650 facilities and recruiting budgets. 1139 01:00:58,850 --> 01:01:01,810 I mean, again, have. I've been putting it for years. 1140 01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:04,670 Long Beach State will never win another women's volleyball 1141 01:01:04,670 --> 01:01:06,350 title. Cal State Fullerton will never 1142 01:01:06,350 --> 01:01:08,990 win another baseball title. And those aren't even football 1143 01:01:08,990 --> 01:01:10,470 schools. But we're just saying that these 1144 01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:13,190 are schools that got used to being powers and in those 1145 01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:16,670 sports. But now the worst of the power 1146 01:01:16,670 --> 01:01:20,870 Five schools had in terms of on court performance or on field 1147 01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:24,030 performance has better facilities, better recruitment, 1148 01:01:24,190 --> 01:01:26,790 and then all these schools that for a while enjoyed some 1149 01:01:26,790 --> 01:01:33,650 advantages. So yeah, this is again, that's 1150 01:01:33,930 --> 01:01:35,290 but the whole idea of a Super League. 1151 01:01:35,490 --> 01:01:37,650 It just seems like one of those fantasies. 1152 01:01:37,650 --> 01:01:41,210 It's a media fantasy and it makes no sense because when the 1153 01:01:41,210 --> 01:01:44,370 playoff becomes 12 teams, that sounds like a pretty Super 1154 01:01:44,370 --> 01:01:46,570 League to me. Yeah, absolutely. 1155 01:01:47,210 --> 01:01:50,450 So I guess maybe with that, we'll go ahead and wrap up any 1156 01:01:50,450 --> 01:01:53,050 final thoughts on all of this before we do. 1157 01:01:53,050 --> 01:01:59,910 So pour one out for the PAC 12. Yeah, I'll miss it a lot. 1158 01:02:00,550 --> 01:02:02,510 The PAC 12 shall rise again, Sir. 1159 01:02:02,510 --> 01:02:04,550 It'll happen at some point, I'm positive. 1160 01:02:04,550 --> 01:02:07,430 I don't know. Well, indeed, indeed, well. 1161 01:02:07,950 --> 01:02:11,390 The big actually to me that the big question is what will end up 1162 01:02:11,390 --> 01:02:16,870 being bigger, the eventual Super League in college sports or MLS 1163 01:02:18,690 --> 01:02:20,930 in terms of number of teams? In terms of number of teams, 1164 01:02:21,330 --> 01:02:23,650 like right now we're talking about like a 30 some team, 1165 01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:26,410 college, Super League. I think MLS is at least at that 1166 01:02:26,410 --> 01:02:29,010 number now, are they not? We are. 1167 01:02:29,010 --> 01:02:31,770 I think MLS is. I know. 1168 01:02:31,770 --> 01:02:37,850 I know MLS is nearing 30. I think they're at 28. 29 There 1169 01:02:37,850 --> 01:02:44,170 are 29 teams right now. 29 Yeah, I gotta go, Gotta go to. 1170 01:02:45,450 --> 01:02:50,010 And actually, they're gonna hit 30 because this is not counting 1171 01:02:50,010 --> 01:02:53,930 the future San Diego team that's going to be added. 1172 01:02:55,490 --> 01:02:58,090 I am. On the one hand, it's kind of 1173 01:02:58,090 --> 01:03:00,730 cool, like I remember where there wasn't a league, but on 1174 01:03:00,730 --> 01:03:03,410 the other hand it just it's that's a lot of teams. 1175 01:03:03,490 --> 01:03:07,610 That's a it is anyway. Well, it's a lot. 1176 01:03:07,850 --> 01:03:11,290 Yeah, Matt, I as always enjoy talking to you about this stuff 1177 01:03:11,290 --> 01:03:13,370 and I'm sure we'll have more to talk about as we move forward. 1178 01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:14,810 But thank you for joining me. This was great. 1179 01:03:16,570 --> 01:03:18,810 Absolutely. Galen, bring back the bison. 1180 01:03:18,930 --> 01:03:19,850 Thank you. There you go. 1181 01:03:19,890 --> 01:03:22,570 Thank you for popping that in. Some people have been giving me 1182 01:03:22,570 --> 01:03:24,690 grief cuz I haven't been saying it lately and I've just 1183 01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:26,610 forgotten. No other reason that anyway. 1184 01:03:27,220 --> 01:03:29,140 My thanks to all you folks for tuning in. 1185 01:03:29,380 --> 01:03:32,100 My thanks to our sponsor at home field apparel and all of our 1186 01:03:32,100 --> 01:03:34,460 friends at the back home network. 1187 01:03:34,460 --> 01:03:37,220 My thanks to Doctor Matt Zimmerman for joining us here. 1188 01:03:37,220 --> 01:03:40,460 We'll be back with I U football coverage this weekend. 1189 01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:42,060 I'm Galen Clabby. We'll catch you folks on the 1190 01:03:42,060 --> 01:03:43,260 flip side. So everybody.