You're listening to the back home network, presented by home
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Crimson Cass. Got here with you gonna take a
little bit of a departure. Hopefully do something that will
make kind of a regular feature here, but we're gonna start
looking at the Big Ten landscape.
Nobody better to do it with then Thomas.
Bend it from the Big Ten Powerhouse Sports be Nation.
BT Powerhouse.com Thomas. How you doing, man?
Good. Good.
Thanks. Thanks for having me on.
It's starting to gear up for towards March.
So good time here. Yeah, I don't want that point
where like, they're saying on the bra.
That's like six weeks or selection Sunday, and you're
starting to look at the Big Ten and it's like, wow, like that
means we're, you know, four and a half weeks away from getting
ready for the Big. Ten Tournament.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
It's sneaking up. Yeah, it is before we dig into
it. Just real quick mention about
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along with many others that are not so Thomas.
I want to start here. You know, we're kind of Midway
point of the Big Ten season and obviously we'll kind of focus on
Indiana some points. But who, who are you most
surprised with? And who are you most
disappointed with is, you look at the Big Ten as a whole
surprised with the most? I think that from the
disappointing side of things, I think it has to be Michigan.
Yeah. Coming into the year as a
preseason. Top 10 team.
They look loaded. Not only The newcomers you're
talking about Devonte Jones, who was a high-profile transfer, the
big Ten's best recruiting class, some believed.
It was the nation's best recruiting class.
And then Hunter Dickinson, who was Big Ten freshman of the year
last year, looked primed. And at this point there are
absolutely a bubble team. I think you can make arguments
either way as far as whether they would be in the field if,
you know, tomorrow was selection Sunday, so I think they have
definitely been the most disappointing.
The second to them, I would say, Maryland which has been just
kind of a mess on and off the court this year from a positive
standpoint. I honestly, I think Indiana has
been has been one of the teams that has really surprised in a
positive way because, you know, they have the coaching
transition obviously, but I don't think anybody was quite
sure what to expect bringing a guy in from the MBA, the roster
for the most part. Similar, but they're they're
getting a lot better results this year and maybe some of that
is just Fortune worth for the balls, fall in the right way,
but I think they have been a real positive and an
overachieving team, Michigan State as well.
I was one of the ones who kind of thought the Spartans were
going to be about lot better than they were last year.
But I think just from the fact that they were in the first four
last year. Now, they're like a top 10 ish
team. So, yeah, it there been a few
that have positively surprised and a couple Appointments as
well. Yeah, lots of go off of that.
Let's talk about Indiana first just because that's what people
here. I'm sure want to talk about.
So curious to get your thoughts on that from kind of an outsider
perspective. I agree.
I mean, it's been, it's been good to me.
I've been trying to tell people on this pod.
Those are kind of my, we're kind of in line with the expectations
that I had for us this year kind of finishing in that 527 range,
making the tournament to me. The thing that I've seen is the
most impressive is the defense that Woodson's put in a name.
Are we look at the conference, only stats?
We're one of the top. If not the top defensive team.
You're seeing that start to travel.
What do you see kind of in the Woodson, you know, New Era that
you've been impressed with? And then you tell us, I'm
curious, your thoughts. I don't want to always say, I
want to rehash the past, but it's like most I, you fans were
so ready to get rid of Archie. I'm just, I'm curious.
We haven't talked to you, obviously, during that time.
Like, did you think this was the right move?
Were you skeptical on it and kind of, you know, what are you
seeing out of Woodson so far? So yeah, I agree.
I think the defense has been phenomenal so far this year and
it really, it seems like it's continuing to Trend up Ken Palm
Hasma up to 16th now. And but it seems like they've
been playing even better than that recently.
Albeit that the rough performance against Michigan.
But yeah, I think it's that. And the other thing too.
Going back to, you know, arching Miller's, tender.
I definitely thought they had See it from the road.
He they gave them, I don't know how people evaluate the covid
year because they probably would have made it in 2020 had the
tournament out been canceled. So I don't know how people
evaluate that but for years without a tournament appearance,
maybe with an asterisk on there. I don't think is good enough for
Indiana basketball and but it seemed like they were always
competitive. They were they were close it.
Just felt like they needed to be like 5 to 10 points better.
And a lot of these games will go the right way and Woodson's done
it. I thought it was a gamble.
It's not a higher that I was blown away by but the guy has a
really really long history of coaching and he's coached a lot
of great players. Well first time in the NBA, so
it was a calculated risk so far, obviously, working out really
well. I'm curious to see how he builds
off of this in the years ahead. I presume Jackson Davis.
This will be his last year. I don't know if that's the case
or I never can keep track of the elegy eligibility stuff with
with all the covid years and and everything across the board.
But I know it seems like everybody's either a sophomore
or Junior like, everyone just sophomore, junior perpetually.
Yeah, it's a mess. But I presume, you know, given
how he's done this year? That he'll be out of there.
So it'll be interesting to see what would some does after him,
but Yeah, I mean, I think they've been really good.
They're dangerous and really, but what's fascinating is, I
always felt like Archie Miller, the biggest hole they had was
just from the three-point line. They were always a disaster from
deep and this year, like they're better, but they're not insanely
better, which is really speaks to really just the whole
performance across the board because it's not like they just
brought in some a shooter and he fixed all the problems.
It's Been incremental and across the board.
So impressive job so far. I think ya know, I think most
most are you fans us agree. It's funny.
You mentioned that you at 20:20 year, it is.
It is tough because we've always steal.
We would like all your archenemy of tournaments like well with an
asterisk, like you probably would have made it but it's, you
know, the the trouble with that perception becomes reality in
the trouble with that is, I think he would have gotten more
credit had we would have been like a four or five seed in the
tournament. Like how do we made it in 2020?
It would have been By the skin of our teeth and we were at one
point five and three in the Big Ten that year we finished 9 and
11. I mean, we did, you know, I
joke, we won the Big Ten tournament that year.
We play the last game. That happened at the big Center
would be Nebraska co-champs. Yeah, we we theoretically one
dollar, we won the game. I mean, the last game.
They had you. Last last last person to win a
game wins the tournament. Right, fair enough, fair enough,
but yes, it's gonna be you're right.
We've incrementally gotten our three-point shooting better.
But if the defense is really a That's funny because that was
the the Archie Miller thing is cut coming in and he's a
defensive guys as a Collide, you know, playing it never seemed to
work. And what was wild that I still
never willfully. This is where, like, you know,
the, the NBA draft is always a crapshoot and I think hiring
coaches is odd because Archie, Miller, obviously knows how to
coach basketball. He knows more about basketball
than I'll ever know. He has a system, but it dating
like his teams were tough. It's like that.
That's what those dating teams were like, tough out to the
tournament. They played tough.
They The guys who got the maximum ability and that just
didn't translate Indiana. It's so interesting to see how
that works and doesn't, you know, the big Ten's, a great
example, you guys coming from mid-majors, you come here and
it's like, Chris holtmann is getting it to work at Ohio,
State and works there. You know, there's nothing to say
why Archie couldn't get it done. But you do see this?
As some guys are able to do it at a mid-level, and then they
get to the Big Ten and they can't do it.
It doesn't, it doesn't seem to be a lot of Rhyme or Reason
which is why I'm happy Indiana. Didn't go with another.
You know, we're going to go with another hot.
Hot young Prospect. Like, let's try some different.
Let's get a guy with some NBA experience.
The Indiana ties, who cares, but it's I've always found it
interesting. Like there really is no way to
predict like, who, who's going to be a good mid-major coach.
It's going to come in and do great in a Big Ten stage.
You know, I think that's a great point.
And I think it's a fair point and well-timed here to with what
has happened with Louisville. Because Chris Mack seem like a
guy that was just destined for, you know, great success.
We built, you know, did really, really well at Xavier and you
wonder because you get to Louisville and you got to
recruit different guys than you can recruit.
I know he built a great program there with a Xavier, but
Louisville, obviously has some pretty lofty expectations.
They have a national championship.
I know the banner came down, but they have a national
championship in modern history and they expect to be in
contention for the final for over a year.
And I think sometimes It seems like certain coaches.
They don't know how to work with those certain personalities.
Those high-level guys, the recruits who know, they're going
to be playing in the NBA later on and and certainly I think if
you're an Indiana fan, obviously you got a guy who's well-versed
in how to work with big personalities and MBA level
Talent. So I think if Indiana can can
continue the success and he hits the recruiting Trail and get
some of those guys. It'll be interesting to see how
he Works with them versus somebody like a Chris Mack or an
Archie Miller who got their success primarily based on
unheralded, guys, who you know, blow up or develop when they get
there. So, yeah, I think that's an
interesting point and I may be something that should be
encouraging for Hoosier fans. No, I think I think it is and
you mentioned kind of the building of a program like that
is, that is what it has felt like has been lacking in
Indiana's. We've been so up and down, you
know, there was, you know, I want to talk bigger, Big Ten
stuff, but, you know, I don't get to did two of the weeds of
Indiana history, but it is, it does feel like we're in a, in a
nice spot with Woodson, who a guy who we know wants to be
here, and seems to be able to kind of build a program.
And, you know, again, we're Deanna biased here, but it does,
you know, you're starting to see a little bit of the recruiting
kind of pick up, and he definitely has ties to Indiana.
And that that's always been, you know, with the Big Ten as you
do. See and this is no knock on
Purdue because Matt, I'm curious your take on this, like, Matt
Painter has done a fantastic job and I would have if I would take
the last 20 years of the success that he's had.
But you do kind of see the correlation that Purdue mine's a
lot of Talent with Indiana's down like what Indiana, really
It the the dumps. That's when Purdue got, you
know, Robbie Hummel and each one more like they kind of strip.
Mine, Indiana, the state of Indiana once Indiana's not
really recruiting and the ones that seems like we're kind of
doing well. And we get, you know, Cody
Zeller and we're getting, you know, Jordan holes and the
Indiana guys. It seems like Purdue struggles a
little bit. I feel similarly with, you know,
like Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio still like they all
kind of come in and start me on pecking at Indiana, guys.
That was always, the thing is, like, just close the border.
It does feel like Woodson, might be able to do that more.
You know cream tried to and then kind of lost control was going
after you know guys and you know other states and going for you
every single top 25. Recruitin Archie just never made
those connections. So it does it feels like for
this in Indiana feel like that's always the roadmap like just get
the best Midwest guys, and you can probably lockout.
You're going to do two things going to get good players, but
you're also going to hurt your competition because teams like,
you know, Purdue Ohio State aren't going to be able to get
the talent, Indiana. I agree for the most part.
Art, I think to me, one of the the big things that you always
hear about, you know, for covering the Big Ten is, you
know, when's the Big Ten going to win a National Championship
again? It's been 20 plus years,
depending on how you count the Maryland National Championship.
I don't count it as a Big Ten title in the earth.
You know that, you know, I wasn't.
No, it's Michigan. Michigan, State won.
The last one. Yes.
Yes, and and the thing that you wonder is I really feel like
It's because the what I consider the big Ten's Premier program,
Indiana and that that's why I don't say that.
Just because I'm on this podcast.
I really feel like Indiana is when it is at its best.
It's better than anybody else in the conference.
Just in terms of national appeal, the force behind it.
And I really feel like the reason the Big Ten hasn't been
able to break through is because Indiana has been kind of amid, a
mess for a lot of, a lot of the last 20 years.
As we say here, we've been in the wilderness.
Like we've just been out the Wilderness for 20 years Wonder.
Are you go? Yeah, you know, there are a
couple good years sprinkled in there.
But because you need, if you're going to win a National
Championship, unless you're going to be a weird year where
your Yukon or something like that, you have to recruit at an
elite level. You got to have MBA type talent
and you got to have it mixed with really really good Elder
players here and there's really only a couple programs in the
Big Ten that I feel like actually have the Capability to
go out and get those types of players.
And Indiana is absolutely one of them, especially when you're
talking year in and year out because we've seen programs in
the league, you know, Maryland, they had Diamond Stone.
They had a couple other guys years back, Michigan's done at
Michigan, State's done it, where they've had a year, maybe, even
two years in a row where they've recruited well, but Indiana is
one of the few where you can just pencil in, they're going to
recruit. Well, even even during this,
these Wilderness years. They've Landed a lot of good
good prospects. Haven't always worked out but I
feel like that is is one of the big things because you know, one
of the big talking points when Rutgers and Maryland joined the
league was that you know, the big Ten's going to have access
to all this new talent and these elite players.
And and the like and for me, I've always felt like the Big
Ten and the Midwest already have a lot of really really good
talent. You go through state by state,
Indiana, you mentioned obviously.
I have a lot of great players. The Chicago area has a lot of
great players. There's more than enough in the
midwest to build a great team and it'll be interesting.
Yeah, if Woodson can sort of lock it down and Indiana becomes
the de facto of Target for a lot of these players out of Illinois
and Indiana, maybe even parts of Ohio, the sky's the limit.
That's that's for sure. Now, I will use this.
You punched your repeat visit on the podcast, anytime you want
and send those. And of things.
No II agree with you? I me, I would I think that
you're I think Michigan state is probably as but, you know, been
the class of the Big Ten for 20 years now.
And they've it's kind of Staggering they haven't won
another title because they've been definitely punching the
punching, their ticket getting the final four.
I think they've been able to do that.
But I agree with what you said and this is something that
you'll pisses off all the people.
I know who are produced France, but you know, I look at them as
again, they've had a fantastic 20-year run.
And they've had really good teams.
You're just starting to see it. Now that maybe they're changing
this narrative a little bit, but it's always been that, you know,
they've been consistent. They've been fantastic.
But it's like a car. Doesn't have that like, six
gear. Like they can do that.
But like you look at again, you know, and they can make fun of
us. All they want.
But you know, we we've out in the wilderness, but that one
year we kind of put together in 2012 and 2013 would be Kentucky
going a little run, would come back the next year.
Ranked 1 in the country. It's like once we figure our
shit out. We get things running like
Indiana's, got a 6 gear or we can just throw it to that next
level. It's like we're now an elite top
level program and it does, it feels like Michigan state has
that in a recruiting. But I'm with you.
I don't feel like other teams in the Big Ten, like Wisconsin's
kind of just steady Eddie. And again, it feels like Purdue
is just doesn't like have that ability to get that next level
gear. Like Illinois can do it.
Sometimes then they just fall completely off the map, you
know, and so I If you kissing our ass, yeah, I wouldn't phrase
it that way. But yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, it's it'll be it'll be fun to watch and, you know, frankly
as somebody who covers the Big Ten.
It's nice to have Indiana back to playing at a top 25.
Ish level may be better. I mean, even that Purdue Indiana
game like it's so fun watching those games.
So it's fun and hopefully they're here for a bit way more
fun than watching that, that Michigan game.
But you mentioned And teams not winning the title.
Like that was a game. I want your take on this, they
want to talk about Big Ten whole, but big kid officiating.
I'm curious your thoughts on it because it's Indiana fans.
It drives me nuts and I watched that game and, you know, the
game against Purdue wasn't, it was an example, we ended up
winning, but you know, and I know that Edie is a, is a
handful. But you have traced Jackson,
Dave's out there. Who's one of the top players in
the Big Ten? And I'm not saying they need to
have, like, you'll start treatment.
It's like, do you really owe Jackson Davis?
Average is 1.9 fouls a game for his career.
He hasn't had 4,000 a game in, like two years.
And so, then he gets four thousand nine minutes.
Now. I know he's coming off an
injury. He's not as fast like I know
that Edie is a handful but you see this where these games are
called so erratically. So often it feels like the refs
are such a part of the game and yet they have such little
control and then you have these things where like, you know, a
great player just get three or four 1,000 ended up working out.
Alright, for Indiana, in that case.
Because fantasy went, what Bonkers?
But I've always felt like part of the problem in the tournament
is that the Big Ten officiating is so bad.
And so unclear that when they get to the tournament teams
start to like look around like, you know, Purdue's going to be
like, why are we get these fouls called media?
It's like oh, yeah because we're not playing in the Big Ten and
like you're just going to have a team like Kentucky just bum-rush
you like. I'm I'm curious what your
thought is in that, you know, looking at the whole the league
is a whole. I've been ranting about it for
years. I feel like the Big Ten
officiating has And as you said erratic and I think really,
really Divergent from what you see out of postseason.
And I think to me an example to use in recent years, were
Michigan's teams under John beilein, where they would
perform in one way for it seemed like it took almost 45 years for
them to finally break through in the big tent there in the
tournament. I think the year they made the
final four were Trey Burke. It was that your with Cody?
Zeller you were mentioning earlier.
Yep. I want to say they were like fit
the fifth seed, in the Big Ten tournament and it really felt
like they got to the NCAA tournament there like any, we
can play our style of basketball.
Now, you know, we're not playing with the Big Ten reps on our
back. So it was I feel like that
that's an example and you know the other night Michigan plays
Northwestern not a super high profile game, but I think there
were forty six fouls in that game.
It was just utterly unwatchable for its egg.
It's and I'm hoping they will improve it at some point.
I'm doubtful. It'll happen.
But, you know, fingers crossed. They at least make it a little
closer to what we see. Nationally.
It does. Make you understand why?
Fran mccaffery wigs out. Every third game is like I do
get it. Like why you're gonna check
every third game? Haven't seen the chair recently.
So he's making some progress. Haven't seen it yet.
I will, I gotta say this that game where we played them.
He so effectively. He used the T like, you know,
the game was kind of in flux and we start to make a little Run.
The game was getting a little nutty and then McCaffrey just
went nuts. Got a tea and then the way the
refs called the game completely changed and it got kind of ugly
and I mean Iowa played it to their style and ended up
winning, but you could it was a moment where I'm like, oh man,
like I hate saying the frame McCaffrey like out coach
Woodson, but damn he played he played the rest and played all
of that, you know to good effect, which is never fun.
So absolutely. All right.
Go ahead. Good.
So looking at the Big Ten as a whole, I am just going to start
with this. It's annoying because they've
always been good and they always end up being good.
But to me, it's like I think this is Michigan.
State's like I know you just had the power rankings that you put
up on the BT Powerhouse site. People are kind of looking, you
know, who's it's kind of an odd spot, because nobody really
seems to have an upper leg at winning the Big Ten title.
But I look at it. I think Michigan State's got an
inside leg. And I look at it.
Just because their next few games, they have Maryland
Rutgers on the road. Like, that's nice.
They have Wisconsin and Indiana at home.
You possible Wednesday at Penn State on the road.
Like they're three of the next row.
Games are Maryland Rutgers and Penn State.
That's pretty good. If northwestern's not involved
as well. They're home to Illinois.
I mean at Iowa and then, you know home to Purdue.
They could theoretically with all those games up until that
Purdue game. They play in East Lansing, which
could put them at Tetum to in the Big Ten, maybe 13 and 3.
If you give them a lost somewhere in there, but I don't
know, I look at that when you look at everyone else's
schedule, like obviously you have what the Illinois,
Wisconsin game is kind of going to depend on where those teams
laying out. I just, I look at Michigan.
State has a pretty easy Runway, the next three weeks.
Yeah. I mean, I, I tried, I threw this
in, when I did my power rankings and I ended up dropping the
state actually this week. Yeah.
Like a nerd, right? Yeah, and I feel bad about it
because I was like, you know, they're combat, they just They
beat Wisconsin like a week and a half ago and they blew out
Michigan over the weekend. So I was like man, I feel bad
dropping them. But the top four, I really feel
like it's a it's a tear with with the top for you got Purdue,
Illinois, Michigan State and Wisconsin, and I really feel
like they're all really close one game slips here.
There they move up and down. So it's bizarre because it's
rare that we get all the way to February where you're like four
deep depending on your view of Ohio State.
B5 deep. I think the Buckeyes are a
little bit back from the top floor.
But yeah, Michigan state has a pretty solid line up here.
Moving forward. The thing that I found really
interesting was T rank, which is like the Ken pom.
I don't want to call it a knockoff, but the Pepsi to Coke
of do we Advanced analytics? We reference both them on this,
on this podcast. We locate.
Okay. Well, good, good.
I know some people aren't as familiar with t rank but he does
a Big Ten title. Allods projection and he has
Purdue at 42 percent chance to get a share of the title,
Michigan State, 20% chance, which I found just baffling
because of what you're saying, which is Michigan.
State has a pretty manageable slate moving forward.
I think part of it is the advanced stats just don't seem
to love the Spartans right now, for whatever reason and love,
Purdue. I presume because there, they
seemed generally tailored towards the offensive end and
obviously produce offense is fantastic.
This year. Um, but yeah, I mean, if
Michigan State can take care, this is one of these weeks where
you look at it. Michigan State.
As you mentioned, they get Maryland tonight on the road and
then they get Rutgers on the road on Saturday, where these
should be winds. And a lot of times this, these
are the types of games. Where the Big Ten title is
decided where it's some stupid road came.
Have Phil gym or something where you should win, you put in half
and effort and you end up losing.
So, yeah, I mean, That Wisconsin home game afterwards should be,
it should be a fun one, but I really think Michigan State and
Purdue are the teams to beat as far as getting a share of that
title and it will be something if we got too late, February 22,
played and had the title online. Yeah.
I just I get I'm always a big. I look at the schedule and
Michigan State. Just has this great run coming
up because again, they play Wisconsin.
Who Wisconsin? Pretty good, too.
So I think that could be a very tough game, but it's in East
Lansing and then they owe the next game is Indiana.
We just we have not shown an ability to play good
competition. Well on the road, maybe
Maryland, but I don't know what Maryland's going on.
Yeah, I mean, Penn State. It's just they have a nice
Runway. Right?
Look at every other team. It's like they're either playing
each other or they have some tougher games in there.
So, yeah, it's gonna be interesting.
How many teams did you think? What?
You Mission. Michigan earlier, which again?
I agree. They've been down until they
played us and they looked like that was exactly the moment.
You're like. Oh, yeah.
This is why they were ranked like fourth in the country to
start the season. Like they had themselves a game
and a half against us. Do you think they can pull it
back up because they're kind of, the reverse mean they have
Nebraska at home tonight, which should be a win.
But then, I mean, they're at Purdue at Penn State, which is,
you know, that's not hard, but that's that's getting harder.
Order. But then home to Purdue again
and then Ohio State and then, you know, Iowa, Wisconsin like
they have a much tougher, really do you, do you see them getting
what they need to do to get back into the NCAA tournament.
I think Michigan is going to end up making it, I think it's going
to be really tight. And I think they're going to be
one of those teams where they're going to come into the Big Ten
tournament. They're probably going to be
seated on the second day and they're probably going to have
to win a game. If not to the the Most
interesting thing that I think for the Wolverines moving
forward is they had one of those covid outbreaks, and they had to
adjourn their games against Purdue and Michigan State.
And the rescheduled, for you mentioned, they get Purdue at
home. It's the February 10th and then
March 1st, they just added the Michigan State game, which a lot
of the schedule, guys, don't even have it on their sites yet.
But the game, those games are hard enough by themselves, but
if you look at where they place them, It's like they play a game
day off. Play a game.
Okay, off play a game. So it's really compressed the
last month of the Season, which I mean some teams seem to thrive
on that. I'm a little skeptical of how
Michigan's going to be performing once they get through
some of that. But I think Michigan.
They've been playing better recently.
I know they lost to Michigan State last Saturday, but I did,
to me, they still won three out of four.
I think they're trending up. I think that was it.
Game, they probably were lost regardless and really if they
can just win. You mentioned, that Penn State
game on the road. That's going to be a really
important one. Take care of some of those
winnable games. I think they're going to be
there when all said and done because their strength of
schedule is really, really strong and it's going to remain
strong with all these Big Ten teams.
Like, I don't know if people realize this but in the net
rankings there like late low, 30s High 40s or so, which is
pretty solid given. Their General consensus, which
is that they're right on the edge of the tournament.
I think if you get selection Sunday and they're like 35th or
something than that, they're probably going to slide it.
Yeah, not me their 30-second can Palm right now, even though they
are like 10 and 84 in the Big Ten, but now I'm with you.
I think they're going to be really interesting to see
because their schedule, like you said is so compressed and you
could even see that again with, you know, Indiana, you know, we
have these little runs where it's like, We won the Purdue
game, and then it's like three days later.
You gotta go, play Michigan. And there's like, he's just
like, obviously the team is going nuts there while, but it's
like three days turn around, you got to do that.
And same thing with, you know, we have like a little stretch
there. We had Ohio State Minnesota,
Iowa, just like boom, Thursday Sunday, Thursday.
She's like boom boom. Boom, just back to back to back.
So it's going to be interesting to see if that, you know, when
that catches up to them, if it does.
But you figure it'll catch up. Sometime in one of those almost
back to backs or fit. Like you said, if they get to
the Big Ten Tournament, they have to win a game and they're
just so, So beat down like I would, definitely not expect
them to make a run to the Big Ten Tournament.
Just based on the fact they're going to have played probably
like four more games and everybody else between now and
then mmm. Yeah, absolutely.
And I like I said, I'm interested to see but man that
the last couple weeks of February going to be really
tough for Michigan and we'll see how they're bent.
This is a time where, you know, I'm normally not high on benches
in college basketball. I think they're overrated for
the most part but this is a time where Michigan's probably gonna
have to Lean on the bench a little bit and hope that it can
get them through, you know, a game against Nebraska or Penn
Stater. Again.
Some of the more winnable games on the Slate.
Yeah, being a big tank. I'm just curious.
We just played Maryland. What what happened with church?
I think that was, I mean, we all saw it, he was gone to
beginning, it a very odd time to let somebody go and then nothing
really hurts. All right, Danny man.
He's coaching. Like, I'm just curious, you
know, I, as I you fan of just kind of put my head down and
focus on IU and worry about us, but What is going on there?
Because you saw that story. It's like there's some there's
more here than just he wants to leave early.
It feels that way the timing and everything, which is very
bizarre. But I have I have not heard
anything else. I also have not been seeking
out, you know, Maryland basketball info.
Yeah. I mean, it seems like there was
some some split between him and some issues with some of the
coaches up to some questionable activities, outside the games to
put it lightly and I don't know. He I'm I described him not to
get too to In The Weeds on this but like a a year, a year ago.
I described his tenure as akin to what Jim Harbaugh's was at
Michigan. If you're a football fan, just
in the guise of, like, the teams have been pretty good.
They just never break through and do anything and it, really,
I think created this just extreme frustration with the fan
base and the coaches and the players and it seemed like It
just finally hit a Breaking Point.
That's my read on it. At least and I think it will
probably be good for all parties in the long run.
I'm I still I haven't seen. I don't know if it seems like
they're almost acting. Like Manning is is going to be
the head guy moving forward, but I can't imagine that they're not
going to go out there and see who else is on the market, but
they're in a fertile fertile, recruiting area.
They have a die-hard fan. Fan base.
So I mean, this should be a program capable of some big
things and they really haven't done much with them.
Couple, sweet 16s, but never felt like they were real.
I mean, I know they won that Big Ten title, but never never
really felt like they were on the edge of anything great.
I'd agree with that looking at just the bubble will come back
to that whole on what will come back to the tournament a second.
I want to talk like all-conference players.
I think it's interesting, you know.
We're obviously looking at it through the guise of Trace
Jackson Davis, who's no longer on, you know, Ken Palms All
Conference team, which is just, you know, 11 barometer.
Who do you see as the all-conference player this year?
Because Johnny Davis had his moment with Wisconsin, you know,
Jane IV has had that great shot for Purdue.
He's awesome. But you know, he's gonna play
enough. Liddell has been good at Ohio
State but he's had some no-shows.
And then you know again, Tres Jackson Davis has been
fantastic. But he's also a little bit
one-dimensional which I have a question for you about that,
also, but I'm curious. Where do you see kind of the Big
Ten Player of the Year shaking out.
I mean, I think it's going to depend on the next month and I
know that's a little bit of a cop-out but just because like
like you mentioned there's a good five, six seven guys,
depending on how you, you know, view certain players that are
really, really playing at a high level to me.
I would say. Liddell and Davis are the guys.
I would be looking at the most for Player of the Year Liddell.
It just seems so consistent night in and night out.
I know he's had a couple games that weren't his best, but the
guy just keeps producing and Davis, obviously, went
absolutely ballistic. I'm for a couple weeks there to
start the new year and if he can replicate anything close to that
here down the stretch. I think he will probably get the
nod. I'm Keegan Murray, Zach Edie
treyvion Williams. I'm not quite as high on.
I think all of them have some issues in their game, not to
diminish their play because they've all been great, but I
have them a little bit of a step back.
And yeah, Jackson Davis has got to be in the conversation as
well. At least for all Big Ten.
And then I would say, Kofi Colburn should be in the running
as well. But it seems like he's missing a
game every couple of weeks. So I'm I'll be curious to see if
you really has the full resume necessary to make the list at
season's end. But obviously, when he's on the
floor, he's a great player. No, he's good.
The thing with Johnny Davis is interesting is he probably feels
like he might win it. And it's a weird like almost
anti new stats because his numbers are, and my dad got love
them. Is 90 gonna be 92 years old this
year, but he all he looks as it, you know, points and rebounds
like he's like, just locked in, you know, now. 1984 stat mode,
you know, Johnny Davis is awesome for those numbers, but
you look at some he's almost Allen Iverson s like some of the
games will still put up like, you know, 14 minutes against
Ohio State, but it's like 3 or 13 shooting like, of all his
offensive rating. Even in those times.
He went ballistic, you know, four of the last six games.
He has sub-100 offensive rating. So, it is from an analytical
point of view. It's like his numbers wall,
pretty amazing. And by the way, watching him
play, Indiana, You're like this guy's Transcendent.
He is just at a different level. So there's no debating that, but
also like the advanced stats aren't super kind to him either.
Yeah, I think part of that is just because Wisconsin, depends
so much on them where they're just there for him.
Throw him the ball, and hey, please save us, especially a
month or so ago. Where it's since then it seems
like the guys have picked up a little bit around him.
I don't know if that's just development or they really he
inspiring. Um, I don't know.
But yeah, for the conference, like to 32% of possessions or
through him. Yeah.
So, I mean, he's dominating the
ball when it when he's on the floor and, you know, remaining
pretty productive. I agree.
I think he's Advanced numbers are a little bit weaker.
I mean if you're looking at just the raw box score totals, I
think he's the easy pick your but I think if you analyze a
little bit more, I like Liddell like his consistency, but you
know of Davis can keep putting up.
Mr. Numbers. Yeah, I would say he's probably
the leader. Now.
I agree with your dad's, take at least 10, at least on that, but
it'll be interesting to see just because, I don't know if that
Centric posted focus of him, dominating the ball so much is,
he's gonna kind of hurt his stats as we move towards March.
Yeah, it's all I will also say just you mention Zach ET.
I saw him in person for the first time.
This year because obviously didn't see him last year and
person. Um, it's wild at Purdue now has
that like Michigan State always seem to four years have like,
the the Draymond Green type look, just the 68 power for you.
Just gonna bust your ass inside, and that's what they'd go.
And now, it's like for new always has this just massive,
massive big, white boy in the middle of yet.
Isaac Haas, you harms. And now Zack, ET is, I mean,
he's all of 74, if not more, and he's thick like he reminds Just
body size of like Rik Smits like just super thick like that is
one of the biggest kids I've ever seen.
Come through the Big Ten. Yeah.
I mean if you can get a chance to see him in real life, it is
quite it's not real tight. Yeah.
Yeah, really, really physical. And, you know, I think the thing
he has on Isaac has and some of the other guys recently is he
seems to play a lot faster below and Around the Net at least I
think so, but he liked a lot. Other big men, you know, but the
big issue I would have of Notch and him as Big Ten Player of the
Year. Something is just the playing
time, you know, versus some of these guys that are out there
just all the time. He's played 44% of produce
minutes, which isn't isn't crazy for a big man, especially with
Williams. They're playing with him up
front. But to me, that's the thing
where I'm like, I just have a hard time on principal saying
this guy's the best player in the league and he didn't even
play half the minutes. Well, that's true.
And I think also that would be I was a Purdue fan.
This would be eating me away. As I'd be so nervous at how he
does in the NCAA tournament cause I feel like he's a guy who
having watched him play. Now in person.
You know, he you could call Travel every time he gets the
ball. I don't think he travels but he
just he moves a little awkward. They me dude. 74 was huge.
Yeah, but you could call foul every play and it's that like
same problem where you know, you could call a foul on him.
You can call found the guy, you know playing defense on him and
it feels like those types of Guys who are kind of big and
unwieldy and tough to figure out.
It feels like they're always not called to help you out in the
tournament. So I'd be worried about that but
it's it where they're here at like between him then Jaden IV.
Who would Johnny Davis like two of the most explosive players in
the Big Ten? That's where Purdue could be
interesting. But again, Ivy has again, I'm
going off of what I signing seen him to other games.
That you've definitely that, I you gave he'd lost his mind
there for a while, but then came back.
Can was determined but you could definitely get him rattled like
it's a produced, an interesting team for the tournament.
In just that I could see them having a nice run.
I can also see them getting upset just based on kind of
funky and stubble, a calls. Yeah, and the other, the other
thing too is there, they're gradually, becoming the offense
again. Fantastic, Ken Palm has them as
the best offense in the country. I don't know if I see them as
quite that great, but clearly a really, really good offensive
team, but those defensive numbers.
Is have been a little troubling. They've had some games where
they've performed pretty well, but they're given up a lot of
decent looks and it's hard to win.
Six games in March, when you're barely a top 100 defensive unit.
Somebody's going to get hot and roast you if you're playing like
that. So I am a little concerned as
you said about them actually being able to make the final
four. Or and pull host, hold up that
trophy on a Monday night. Well, the thing that I would
always say is like when you look at Ken Palm, which is not the
end, all be all, but it's a very good place to look like you just
click on any team, you go to the left side.
Like there's the four factors for offense and defense, you
know, any team that's winning a title or it's in the top ten.
I don't like, seeing one of those four factors being bright
red. There's Dida red and, you know,
their turnover percentage on defense is the worst in the
country or not. 339th. I mean it's really bad.
You saw it against Indiana. We're a team that turns the ball
over. We're getting better and that
might have been kind of a turning point.
But I mean, that's what kill you Iowa.
We have a 25 turnovers or something and that game we had
three turnovers and you thought like that's what helped us win.
The game is, we were just not turning the ball over and you
look at like, other teams that you look at Gonzaga and all
their stuff is green. Except for like a true over
percentage is their 224th the country.
It's like not, it's not green, but it's not bright Reds.
That's where I do worry about Purdue having those high-level
abilities. Plus I'm an Indiana fans of
always looking at ways to shit on Purdue's.
Oh fair enough. Yeah, but I I think they're a
team. That's that's absolutely capable
of making some noise. I mean, they knocked off
Villanova earlier. In the year.
They beat you in, see they beat no, Illinois on the road in that
crazy game on Martin, Luther King day.
But yeah, it's just and I think you can almost look at their
resume and see if they like they win a few games.
Ames and then they blow one. Well, if you blow one and it's
like, yeah for winning six straight and March that's
usually not the best site. So how many teams you think get
in the tournament from the big town?
So I think to me there are good. I have, I did a little write-up
on in a week or so ago and obviously things have changed,
but I think there are five teams that are basically locks at this
point. If they aren't there going to be
in the next week or two, Illinois.
I miss you. Us.
You Purdue Wisconsin, I think those are all in real real, safe
bets. There's a chance to all of them
could be for seeds higher depending on how things fall.
I think they're all ranked in the top 20 right now.
At least in the polls, Indiana, Iowa.
I think at this point are very, very highly likely that they're
going to make it. It would take some pretty epic
collapses at this point to miss out, not ruling it out.
We've seen, Iowa knows deaf hard in the last month of the season,
but Pretty hard to see those teams missing without, you know,
Marie going down. Jackson Davis going down,
something weird. And then I think Michigan is
squarely on the bubble. As I said earlier.
I think they're going to Edge it.
If they ended up in the first four, I would not be surprised
at all because I really feel like they're going to be
somewhere around there barring, you know, a couple big upsets
that are hard to project and then what's interesting is I
feel like you have five teams that are all in this similar.
Tear Maryland, Minnesota Northwestern, Penn State
Rutgers. They all have things that you
can like but they're all clearly a couple steps out of the field
at this point. I don't feel like any of them
are going to make it because I think they're going to beat up
on each other too much to actually get across the Finish
Line. I mean, I was even saying this
to someone last night. I felt like one of the big
Ten's, biggest issues. The last couple of years has
been there, like two teams. Too deep.
We're like, they need a couple more body bags for the good
teams to beat up on like Penn State taking down Iowa.
Last night. It's like Penn State's, probably
not going to make it in there and they're hurting Iowa's
resume with a loss and credit to Penn State Credit, you know,
obviously go out there and give it your all, but I feel like
those five teams. So I my answer is your point.
Cut you off and I like your answer is, like from February
17th on Penn State. His Minnesota, Maryland,
Northwestern and Nebraska. It's like they're very squarely
all playing each other. Yeah.
So I mean if any of those five,
you know can up their play, you know, 10 15 %, They're going to
have a real solid shot at getting there.
But I think like you said, it's going to be this round, robin
thing. We're all going to knock each
other off too much and maybe one of them can Edge into the NIT,
maybe two, but probably not. Who do you think Big Ten gets a
one seed? I don't think so this year.
I think they have teams, you know, Purdue is obviously, I
think has the strongest shot at it just because of the
non-conference play. Although Wisconsin had a few
nice winds as well, but I don't think so.
Again, just because like, I think they're going to beat each
other a couple part times down the stretch, but I think you'll
probably see. This is one of those years, you
might see like two 2's or something.
Yeah, and I think you're writing because you could basically
pencil in, you know, gonzaga's getting a one and probably
Baylor's going to get the other one.
But exactly your point. It goes our conferences that are
just not as deep and maybe the same with Arizona, like Arizona
might just be able to bang up on a lot of bad teams.
So, there you have three of the four there.
If you had to put your stock on one big tents to win the title
this year. This is the year, the Big Ten
breaks the title, like, who do you think could make Final four
and then also win a title. Oh, geez.
I yeah, I mean, as I said before, I'm not a believer in
Purdue actually making it all the way.
I feel. Like the, let's talk more about
that. Let's keep going.
Yeah. I feel like I'm giving you guys
all the great stuff today. The actually, I think Purdue has
the best shot to make the final four.
It's just getting through those the six.
I just, I can't see it. But I probably say Michigan
State, even though, I'm, I don't feel like this is the year of
the big Ten's going to break through and win it all.
Although I want to say last year, the year before, I felt
like they were, we finally set up.
We were finally gonna break through and yeah, it happen.
So who knows? But Michigan State, I think
they're a really balanced team. I think they have a nice bench
and I think they're a tough matchup.
They can shoot get hot from three there.
In the top 10 in three-point percentage this year, really, if
they can just fix some of those turnover problems, which have
really been a problem with the last couple of years.
So I'm not sure it's something they're going to be able to get
under control. But if they can improve that
even moderately, I think they'll have a shot to make some real
noise. Yeah.
I know they're really balancing their off adjusted offense, is
just a defense or both top, 30 in the country and you just have
to, you know, is oh knows how to coach teams to get, ready for
the tournament. It just does absolutely.
I want a couple more things. One thing that I've been hitting
on for a while curious your take looking at things from a larger
Point. I've you know part of this is on
coaching part of this on the player.
I don't know quite where it lands.
I look at Trace Jackson Davis and he has been unworldly at
Indiana. He's been fantastic.
He's been great. His post defense this year.
Has been amazing. You see the he's worked on with
both hands. Like, he's now able to finish
from both the left and the right side, but his defense, he's
blocking. A shots like in the post.
He's Unstoppable. But I've said that I feel like I
wish he would have spent more time working on an outside shot.
I feel like that. I wish the team would have given
him more opportune. We see race Thompson is
shooting, like sub 30 percent for us, but he's still taking
you to one or two, three, averaging one or two, threes a
game. This All Leads up to, you know,
Trace Jackson Davis is most likely going to leave the leaf.
Leave, Indiana at the end of this year, right now.
He's not Even projected as a second-round pick in the NBA
draft. Now, as I would tell my dad
again is 92, you know, it's like he's like, well, who cares?
You heard? It went IPO, your pure to play
the Big Ten went, I was like, okay.
Yes, but if I'm a young up-and-coming player, like
players getting drafted from my school, really mad.
Like, Calipari would always say this the biggest day of the
year, is the NBA draft and we're not.
You India is not, we're not Kentucky, but I've just been
saying for a while. I think it's not a great thing.
If you have a talent like Jackson Davis, who is that good?
And you can't get him drafted in the NBA.
I think that's it's not good. Like I'm not saying it's like
the end of the world. It's not the end of the
Woodson's doing great like but I just think like that's not a
good thing. I feel like there needs, we
should be focusing more as Indiana to get that done.
I'm just curious your thoughts on this and somebody kind of
from the outside seeing that or is it just hey, man, this is a
kid who's really good at these things, but this is just not
what the NBA wants, which I get. But I don't know.
I felt for a while, you've got to do.
Things to get him. Drafted, because if I'm a young
up-and-coming post player, it's like, well shit, man, there's no
way I'm going to be as good as Jack.
The best you can do is be Jackson Davis in the post and if
Indiana can get him, drafted, why would I go?
There would be my counter. Yeah.
I think that's a, that's a decent point.
I to me, it's just one of those things where it's like, well, I
mean, can he shoot? You know, I've I ask that
because he attempted tempted, what?
Two three-pointers. As I'm looking at his numbers
right here, two three-pointers is entire career.
So, and they both got the objects here.
He hasn't, he hasn't he's only taken to.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I mean, I don't know. I haven't watched him a ton of
warm-ups or, you know, heard any practice about how he shoots
threes. But yeah, I mean, you'd like to
see it. I think, an example, you look at
two guys in recent, Big, Ten history who really were nothing
from outside the arc and actually started developing
their agent, pain for Michigan State, a couple of Back never
became an elite three-point shooter, but you know what?
He had that wind up three. Where if he was left completely
wide open he'd bang it and he ended up being a decent draft
pick. I don't know if Jackson Davis
could ever be drafted that high because I think pain was was
significantly bigger off the top of my head, but I think you're
seeing some of it with Hunter Dickinson to this year for
Michigan, where he's attempting threes, and he's hitting some
Accenture. Indiana fans.
Remember, Emma? A week ago or so so I agree.
I think that's something that you know Woodson and the staff
probably want to look at going forward to a certain extent.
I think they inherited a inherited.
Yeah, with with Jackson Davis, but to me, this is a almost a
broader issue of y. N IL is necessary.
And why guys like Jackson Davis should be able to cash in now at
Indiana because the Dude is a bona fide star.
For the Hoosiers. He's an outstanding basketball
player. He's going to be an All-American
consideration at season's end and he should be able to make
some money now where he's getting a ton of attention and
I'm sure he's got some stuff going on on that front, but it's
nice at least he's going to get something here.
Where as you mention. I don't I don't think he's gonna
get drafted. Maybe he figures out a way or
does something in the tournament to justify it, but I'm, I agree
that I don't think he's gonna get drafted.
Which is unfortunate, it's wild. And you think about, you know,
last year, Luke Garcia is like the best player of the Big Ten
and barely got drafted, but it's it again.
It's nothing. I mean Garza's fantastic.
He's he was a great player, but it's like, just not the things.
This is probably another podcast another time, but it's like the
the way that we're playing is not commensurate with the way
the MBA is played. And that could be something you
disagree with and maybe you don't like and you hate the NBA.
But in the end it's like we live in a world where the NBA exist.
MBA plays a certain way and you know, this is why, you know, got
guys want to get to the NBA like just to be like, well they'll at
that sucks. And that's not the way we play.
It's like, okay, great. You're going to fall behind like
I do think it is something the Big Ten needs to think about is
like two or three years in a row.
If your best one of your best players or your top player year
and year out is not even getting a first round draft pick in the
NBA like something isn't right there.
You know. Mmm, Yeah.
No, I mean, I think I think that's a good point.
Point and maybe to round it back to you know, something I said
earlier. I think you could argue maybe
that's a factor in why the Big Ten isn't breaking through with
with national titles. Yeah.
So well Thomas dude, it has been it's been a pleasure.
This is fun. I'd love to do it like in a
couple of weeks as we get closer to the Big Ten tournament and we
can start kind of putting those pieces together as I've, you
follow the big tent, you can let our listeners know, I joke about
it all the time. My understanding is, I mean,
we're Indiana fans, it says wild to say But they play Big Ten
tournament games on Friday Saturday and Sunday, right?
Like I'm not aware of these games like I hear about it.
I've heard rumors this happens, but it does happen, right?
So there's, they do happen. Yeah, a lot of fun.
It's not just the game against Rutgers on Thursday that we lose
and then it's over it is it's wild.
I bet a lot of Big Ten fans would not be able to fully grasp
it. Like for as you know, blue blood
is Indiana. Feels like we are that, you
know, Ten tournaments been around what like 24 years now,
we've made the finals. Once once it's quite an
accomplishment in a certain way, a certain way to consider an
accomplishment and be a last-place Illinois, team once
made the finals. Well, maybe maybe maybe, who
knows, maybe it's it'll be in Indianapolis.
So that's going to be in the, in the dome, which is wild.
Like I don't know why they moved it from game Bridge or Bankers
Life for those of you. No change, but to move it to
Lucas Oil is like, I are they going to play in the middle or
they going to cut it in half like it's going to suck either
way because you cut it in half. Those are never great venues,
but you play the middle, I got even worse because you're not
going to fill it. Hmm.
Yeah, I'm assuming happening and I would, I would think so.
I'm not sure I haven't read anything on that front yet.
I presume. Maybe it's some sort of wow,
covid concern. I don't know but Who knows?
Well, we'll see. It'll be fun regardless.
No, I totally agree. We'll, definitely check out.
Thomas has stuff on Big, Ten Powerhouse.
BT Powerhouse.com Thomas. It has been awesome.
Look to have you back as we get ready for the Big Ten
Tournament. Thank you so much for joining
us. Excellent.
Thanks for having me guys, having too good of a
conversation. There were Thomas to drop this
in. So apologized, it real quick.
Just make sure you check out our friends and over at the power
rank. He's got his huge March Madness
preview coming up soon which hopefully in It will be a big
part of its a pact with predictions.
So definitely check that out. Sports betting advice the PHD
Edge or if you just like understanding Sports and More
analytical level. You should check out everything
it has to offer at the power rank.
Go to Power rank.com, AC to subscribe as the power rank.com
/. AC again.
Thank you to Thomas. Check him out on BT power
house.com. And until next time this is
Scott for Crimson cast signing off.