1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,040 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:21,320 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cask, 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,760 Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining you. 4 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:29,680 It is the 18th of January 2024. Happened to be podcasting to you 5 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,640 folks once again. You probably perhaps just 6 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,960 listened to the podcast right before this. 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,280 We had Ben Portnoy from Sports Business Journal on some 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,680 interesting commentary on a bunch of things that was 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,480 actually recorded before the Purdue game. 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,680 This is being recorded after the Purdue game through the miracle 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,600 of technology. They're in your feed at the same 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,120 time. So we'll have more how? 13 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,920 How's that work? Well, time like happens and then 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,040 time continues to happen. There's this whole like 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,960 continuum thing that people talk about. 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,680 It's great. Anyway, Scott, how are you 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,760 doing? I'm doing great, but you drink 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,800 some coffee, I'm doing fantastic. 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,360 That's great. Yes, I am happy to be talking to 20 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,680 you folks and we are happy to be sponsored by Home Field Apparel, 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,160 our presenting sponsor here on the back home network where you 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,920 get a full cavalcade of podcast covering Indiana men's 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,240 basketball, Indiana Women's basketball, IU football which is 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,720 largely us at this point and a bunch of other things as well. 25 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,600 Hope Field Apparel, the place to go for the finest in college 26 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,680 fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest designs, just the 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,000 place you want to be. They just launched in big news 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,640 to perhaps some people in the state, Scott, they just launched 29 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,520 a Nevada collection for the first time, saw that, I saw 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,560 that. So if you've ever wanted to 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,000 support Steve Olford's school, now's your chance. 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,960 Go buy some Wolfpack apparel. This stuff looks great. 33 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,240 It's it's Nevada is one of those schools that's got kind of an 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,560 understated that blue and silver combo. 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,560 I I think in in the right moment is a really, really nice 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,920 sartorial choice and you've got the opportunity to go purchase 37 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,360 it for 15% off. It's your first time ordering at 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,520 home field apparel. Use the code home 2-3, home 23 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,280 and you'll get the aforementioned 15% off. 40 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,280 If you're not into Nevada swag, well, they got plenty of other 41 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,440 great stuff. The Bomber Jackets keep flying 42 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,160 off the shelves. They've got hoodies, which we 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,920 definitely are in hoodie season right now. 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,040 They've even got a core collection. 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,960 If you just love the fabric or love the colors but don't really 46 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,520 want a logo, you can buy one of their core collection hoodies or 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,560 or T-shirts or what have you. So get yourself over to home 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,240 field apparel.com, follow them on social media and get yourself 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,800 some amazing gear and get 50% off on us. 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,800 It'd be great. Also a reminder, we're on sub 51 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,520 stack. We keep getting people signing 52 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,400 up for Sub Stack and I keep being filled with a feeling of 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,640 gratification and gratitude that you folks are signing up for the 54 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,120 Sub Stack. We send you podcast episodes 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,400 right to your e-mail inbox. We will occasionally include 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,200 extra things as well. We also have a paid option if 57 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,000 you want to support the podcast financially. 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,760 Very reasonable amount. I think where we give you some 59 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,760 extra content, you will hear Scott and I's commentary on the 60 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:27,440 Indiana Pacers trade in the VIP commentary not during the 61 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,480 regular podcast. That's outside the bounds of 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,040 what we would do in a normal podcast. 63 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,680 So that's an extra that we'll give to our our paying 64 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,600 subscribers, so. How about a tease in the 65 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,960 business? That's a tease folks. 66 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,040 So anyway, crimsoncast.substack.com. 67 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,760 The Podcast Emails are free, and we'd love to have you as a part 68 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,360 of the community. If you would like to be a part 69 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,600 of the community With us, Scott, we are contractually obligated 70 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,000 to talk about the game that occurred earlier on this week, 71 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,240 and we're going to do that. Indiana comes out and lays A 72 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,480 gigantic egg at home against Purdue. 73 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:06,600 They lose 87 to 66 in a game that felt like a game for a 74 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,960 solid 4 minutes or so. Felt like Mackenzie Mbako might 75 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,560 have his huge breakout game as an Indiana Hoosier, and he did 76 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,880 for about 5 minutes. Actually ended up being second 77 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,280 leading scorer for Indiana in the game, but Indiana quickly 78 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:26,360 demonstrated they were nowhere close to equal to the task in 79 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,000 this one. Purdue looked awesome. 80 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,640 Purdue was aggressive. Purdue was physical. 81 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:39,200 Indiana struggled a bit due to the same kind of paradigm that 82 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,920 we talked about a lot in in football as well as in 83 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,960 basketball, which is that officiating tends to reward the 84 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,560 aggressor and it tends to reward the more talented team. 85 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,600 And that's what happened in this one. 86 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,720 Purdue kind of got to do whatever they wanted to do and 87 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,040 Indiana didn't seem to have a clue what they wanted to do 88 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,640 after about the 1st 5 minutes and they end up losing to 89 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,520 Purdue. Which in and of itself isn't 90 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,400 that much of a surprise. But what was a surprise to me, 91 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,800 Scott, was how lifeless and indifferent Indiana looked 92 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,640 through most of the last 35 minutes of game time. 93 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,600 You got a chance to watch the game as well. 94 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,240 What were your thoughts? All the above. 95 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,640 So thanks for listening to Crimson Cast bring back the 96 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,000 bison As long. No, that joke's gonna come in 97 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,440 handy the rest of this year. Maybe many more times. 98 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,120 No, I I agree with with a lot of that maybe. 99 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,840 So I'll kind of break up a couple of those thoughts like to 100 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:34,760 to the Fowling and Mackenzie and Baco. 101 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,640 So Mackenzie and Baco comes out hot. 102 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,040 I think scoring 7, the first seven or eight of Indiana's 103 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,280 points gets too early fouls and then you know assembly call talk 104 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:46,760 about this a bit. But it it also drives me nuts. 105 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,280 You kind of like you end up fouling out your own player when 106 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:53,440 you take them out for for having fouls. 107 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,440 And you know, it's it was annoying because on the other 108 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,520 side Edie got one foul, which is nice to see, but then you saw 109 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,840 the rest of the first half, he just didn't foul. 110 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:05,240 Like, I mean he he's playing physical, but like guys would 111 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,520 drive into him like Sparks was trying to drive into him and he 112 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,200 would just pull back, pull his arms back. 113 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,720 And like you can play basketball without fouling, you give up 114 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,240 points, but it can be done. You know this, this is where at 115 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,000 times you can't just have this rule like 2 fouls you're sitting 116 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,680 because like you basically just fouled him baco out of the game 117 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,880 yourself. Just say hey Mackenzie, stop. 118 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,440 Just do not foul, give up points, just don't foul. 119 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,280 So that's annoying. The, the fouling piece, you 120 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:36,520 know, it makes this Indiana team hard, hard to watch at times 121 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,880 because I I do think they, they really fell into something in 122 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,720 that game that drives me annoyed. 123 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,640 It makes me annoyed when teams are kind of like fake 124 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,840 aggressive. So like you know that they were, 125 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,560 you know, hooking Edie with their arm, pulling, pulling them 126 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,480 down. But then would kind of stop and 127 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,280 like, they'd flop at the end and be like, you know, why didn't I 128 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:56,200 get the call? And like, they, they kind of got 129 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,600 wrapped up in the bitching and complaining about refs. 130 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,400 Like, I'm, I'm not a fan of the Big 10 refs at times. 131 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,320 I also think that teams can sometimes take a little bit too 132 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,080 much of that mentality of the fan base. 133 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,040 Like, hey, we're getting screwed. 134 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,280 We're not getting the calls. And like, they start looking for 135 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,840 calls and then Indiana starts like, you know, causing they 136 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,520 start, you know, starting to be physical and then looking back. 137 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,160 And then why didn't he get the call when he get a call there? 138 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,320 And then looking at bitching. And like sometimes I was telling 139 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,560 another friend this, like sometimes you know, when the 140 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,360 fouls are 9 to 1, you look these refs like you're not calling it 141 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:28,800 fair. It's like, no, they're actually, 142 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,360 we're calling it fair. Like we were fouling Purdue a 143 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,480 lot and then we're looking at the refs to call a foul on on 144 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,240 Purdue and like it just it's annoying. 145 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,760 It goes to the, you know, we can talk about Xavier and the the 146 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,920 shiver. It's just all of those kinds of 147 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,960 things where it's like this kind of fake toughness and then like 148 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,840 you said that the lifelessness part of it, you know if you take 149 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,480 the 1st 5 minutes at the end of that five minute segment, Purdue 150 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,120 is up 9:00 to 7:00 and then you take the, you know there was a 151 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:57,640 let me pull up the exact number here. 152 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,040 There was a 13 to two run that Indiana had to start the 153 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,080 second-half. So about four minutes there. 154 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,480 You take that 9 minutes out of the game, Purdue wins 76 to 46. 155 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,680 It's just a complete 30 point drubbing the rest of the time. 156 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,000 And I think that's, you know, there's no, no shame in losing 157 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,320 to a good Purdue team. You kind of had this coming. 158 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,360 Consider we've, you know, owned them over the last 2 1/2 years 159 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,720 or so, like they were looking to take their revenge. 160 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,200 But it was just tough seeing, you know, Edie diving for balls. 161 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,840 Like it's just there's so many memories of this game where it's 162 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,000 like, I I don't like seeing us complaining for calls, us taking 163 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,320 bad shots, us not hustling, watching Purdue do it. 164 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,679 You know, it's it's not awesome. And so, yeah, I mean, it's all 165 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,680 the things you mentioned, but it's not a great way to end the 166 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:48,680 game. And it does make you realize how 167 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:52,880 far we really are away from being at the level we want to 168 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,400 be. At yeah. 169 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,360 I mean I agree with all of that it's I don't know there's 170 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,000 there's like a there's a there's an in game strategic aspect to 171 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,600 this and then there's just the the vibe of the whole thing to 172 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,440 borrow something that we sometimes use in football you 173 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,520 know the so the this was the worst loss points wise Indiana 174 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,120 suffered to Purdue in a decade and it's not coincidental to me 175 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,360 that the the last team that lost by this many points to Purdue 176 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,920 with 22 points 21 points in this game 22 points was the last 177 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,600 worst defeat happened in the 2014 season which was another 178 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,880 team another vintage of Indiana basketball that had a lot of the 179 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,480 flaws and a lot of the disappointing aspects that the 180 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,640 one that we're watching this year has it. 181 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:45,360 Like a clearly a roster that wasn't constructed well doesn't 182 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,000 fit well together. A a dominant post presence 183 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,920 offensively. A lot of immaturity or 184 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:56,320 ineffectiveness at the guard positions and just a an 185 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,240 atmosphere around the team that feels like it can go off a Cliff 186 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,120 at any moment. And as we've talked about 187 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,200 throughout most of this season, you look at what Indiana has 188 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,360 done in the games that they played in the Big 10 so far. 189 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,760 They've they've they've lost 111, lost 111, now, lost one in 190 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,160 the wins. They've looked fine, but they 191 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,880 haven't really looked. They haven't cruised in any of 192 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,880 those games. And even in a game like the 193 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,360 Minnesota game, where they got up by a decent amount, it always 194 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,160 felt like they were one or two bad possessions away from that 195 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,480 being a close game. The Ohio State game very much 196 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,120 was like that. And it looked like they had it 197 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,960 and then it ended up being a close game at the end. 198 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,120 And in the losses they've they've had a key moment where 199 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,720 the game has just gotten completely away from them and 200 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:51,480 they've seemed to neither have the attention nor the the the 201 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,440 verve, I guess, for lack of a better term, to try to reel it 202 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,720 back in and make it competitive. I think you know what? 203 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,160 What irritates me the most about this Purdue game? 204 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,640 Yeah, Purdue's a really good team. 205 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:07,080 Edie's very hard to stop. But Edie was really good last 206 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,680 year and that Purdue team was hard to stop. 207 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:13,240 And yes, Indiana had some better personnel, but this is the same 208 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,960 Purdue team that got blown out at Nebraska not too long ago. 209 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,800 It's the same team that Northwestern was also not great 210 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,960 from a talent perspective, you know, was able to take to 211 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,960 overtime and beat. And I'm not expecting 212 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,760 necessarily Indiana to win. I would like to see them win. 213 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,440 And and you know, even with a depleted roster, I don't think 214 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,560 that winning against your rival on your home floor is, is out of 215 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:41,680 the question. But Indiana just kind of got to 216 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:44,120 a point where it looked like they had no answers for Purdue. 217 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,840 And that was almost entirely from my perspective in Purdue 218 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,680 just looked like a they knew what they were doing and were 219 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,360 calm on every possession, and they were making passes, and 220 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:54,880 they were just picking Indiana apart. 221 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,560 And Indiana looked completely overwhelmed by the moment. 222 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,160 And that's to me the most frustrating thing. 223 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,360 Like, you know, you hoped. And we saw this in the Auburn 224 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,000 game too, and I think eventually we kind of saw it in EU Conn 225 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,280 game. It took a little bit longer 226 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,480 there, but this team is so easy to overwhelm by teams that are 227 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,240 calm and know what they're doing. 228 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,080 And it hurts even worse in a game against your rival where 229 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,320 you know, these games are not generally decided by who's the 230 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,800 most together of the teams. Because there's, you know, even 231 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,640 in that entire losing streak that Indiana had, the one that 232 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,240 stretched from cream to Miller, none of those games were really 233 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,160 blowouts. You know, there were a couple of 234 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,680 games that were in, like the 12 to 15 point range, but a lot of 235 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,520 those games were close, even if Indiana didn't win. 236 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,520 And it's like you could be frustrated about the fact that 237 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,840 you can win, but it's like that 4846 game from like the 2019 238 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,080 season. It's like, well, that sucked. 239 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,840 But they were in the game and and Purdue was clearly the 240 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,080 better team. Indiana still figured out a way 241 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,280 to keep it close here. Not only could they not figure a 242 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,800 way out, they didn't look terribly interested in keeping 243 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,040 it close. And I don't like to me, that's 244 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,040 where fans start to just kind of turn it off mentally and that's 245 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,680 that. I've talked to so many fans over 246 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,600 the course of the last 48 hours, not 48 hours, 36 hours. 247 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,600 Who said some kind of a version of well now I can watch this 248 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,040 team without having any real expectations the rest of the way 249 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,840 and that's kind of how I feel at this point Scott and I think 250 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,640 it's how you feel it's it you know it's you're you've got a 251 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,400 fan base that's fully moving into the I'm not mad I'm 252 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,640 disappointed phase of the season and that's a really bad place to 253 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,720 be on the 17th of January. It it that's a that's that's not 254 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,440 a good sign for the rest of the season and the overall 255 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,000 atmosphere surrounding the program. 256 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,440 Well and one thing that you know was mentioned on assembly call 257 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,200 after the game, but as mentioned anybody could have seen is like 258 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,120 you know our guard play was just not up to the task in that game 259 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,120 and Purdue was was you know it's we were just taking a bunch of 260 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,560 shots we shouldn't have. But it got me thinking two 261 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:04,800 things. First off it's like it's 262 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,080 frustrating because like we we treat this as if like there's 263 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,960 some alchemy of like Oh my God, how do you get guard play like 264 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,800 Purdue does. And it's like, well, you know, 265 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,040 look at it, Fletcher Lawyer was a four-star recruit out of Fort 266 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:16,640 Wayne. You know, Braden Smith is a 267 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,960 three star recruit out of Westfield who I know I'm here 268 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,760 know for a fact would have liked to have been at least recruited 269 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,400 by Indiana, but he wasn't. Some of these are sins of the 270 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,360 Archie Miller. So it's not all Woodson's fault. 271 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,080 Lance Jones, who had a great game, is an, you know, three 272 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,880 star recruit out of Evanston, IL. 273 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,040 Who who was in the portal? Almost, yeah. 274 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,640 For me it's not. And and by the way, you know, so 275 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,760 Trey Galloway was a four-star recruit out of Culver, you know, 276 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,280 so we're getting some of these. It's frustrating because a 277 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,240 again, you don't need to get all Indiana kids, but it it's always 278 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,560 galling when this happens. It kind of happened when you had 279 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,080 that, you know, Purdue run with, you know, hummy and each one, 280 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,320 each one more when like who? Robbie Hummel. 281 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,040 Sorry. Hummel One more like, you know 282 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,520 when when Indiana just kind of ceded the state to other people 283 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,600 and then Purdue's like, OK, we'll just take everybody and 284 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,000 we'll get a team that beats you. It's frustrating, but then it's 285 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,480 like you know. Well, to be fair. 286 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,840 To be fair, Calvin Sampson got himself fired in part trying to 287 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,880 recruit Robbie Hummel. But anyway, keep going. 288 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,120 But you know Purdue gets these guys and then they develop them. 289 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,360 We sit here and it's like, well, I've you know, we got to get 290 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:21,800 more guys. We got to get more guys in the 291 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,120 portal. We need more five star recruits 292 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,440 like or we could just get the guys we have and make them a 293 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,160 little bit better. It to me that's also very 294 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,120 frustrating that you know, it's not like Purdue has five Jalen 295 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Hood Shafinos in their backcourt and it's like oh man, how do you 296 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,560 compete with that? These are all guys theoretically 297 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,600 Indiana could have been competing for. 298 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,760 But the the larger thing that kind of got me thinking is, you 299 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,800 know, during that game you see Purdue, you know, packing the 300 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,080 paint and just daring us to take threes, which we do when we 301 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,600 don't. We step in and take a really 302 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,560 dumb long 2, which is also another topic that's super 303 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,920 annoying. But you know, we're we're for a 304 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,680 team that plays to the post and our two best players are post 305 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,640 guys. We just got out of our game 306 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,200 really quickly, which got me thinking, you know, what is our 307 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:08,880 identity? Because in this game it's like 308 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,160 you need to, you know, you see it slipping away and then we 309 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,720 just continue to shoot a bunch of long twos and threes, like 310 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,560 that's not what we do. And then I started, this is 311 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,080 where I got kind of you know sad and existential as I started 312 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,040 thinking well you know what is this team's identity been for a 313 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,720 couple of years and it's like you know what Scott, this is, 314 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,720 this like this is not only this teams identity, this programs 315 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,320 identity of really not having an identity and like just when big 316 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,440 games happen for the most part we don't really have something 317 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,400 we lean on. And year over year it's like 318 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,120 this is kind of what we've been for 20 plus years as we don't 319 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,520 really have that. Whereas you look at Purdue, they 320 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,320 have a identity year in, year out over a long period of time 321 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,520 and that was that was sad, man, that was a depressing like 10 322 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,280 minute just identity thought in my head going on. 323 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,960 I'll push back a little on something you said, which is the 324 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,440 recruiting piece. Because, you know, I'd like to 325 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,280 note that in the middle of that stretch where Purdue beat 326 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,599 Indiana, whatever, nine times in a row, Indiana had guards from 327 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,520 the state of Indiana that were pretty highly regarded that they 328 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,079 recruited onto the roster. They had Rob Fennessy. 329 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,119 They had Armand Franklin. They Demisi Anderson was a swing 330 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,200 man but he was from the state of Indiana as well. 331 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,000 It's but I think the the bigger point is that Purdue has a 332 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,800 system that they have figured out under Painter. 333 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:33,040 And really since Purdue missed the tournament in 2013, Painter 334 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,240 has to his credit figured out a way to make a an Uber 335 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,600 competitive team pretty much year in and year out in the 336 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,400 regular season. You know they've you you go back 337 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,560 to those two years in a row, back-to-back, they missed the 338 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,960 tournament Purdue in 2013 and 2014 and those teams 339 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,320 statistically actually were very similar to what you're seeing 340 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,800 out of Indiana this year. They they were teams that were 341 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,000 in the the upper 90s to a hundreds in offensive 342 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,760 efficiency. They were around the same in 343 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,560 defensive efficiency. They were clearly teams that 344 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,400 could win a game here or there but weren't going to be able to 345 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,520 compete at a high level. Then you look at what happened 346 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,320 afterwards, you know, Purdue went nine seed, five seed, four 347 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,640 seed, two seed, three seed, COVID, 4 seed, three seed, one 348 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,000 seed. Like that's that's been their 349 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,800 last decade. And a lot of that is continuity. 350 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,120 A lot of that is we're going to pluck these players, we're going 351 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,200 to put them in a particular system and that system is going 352 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,760 to work really well. And Painter deserves a lot of 353 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,400 credit for that. Purdue deserves a lot of credit 354 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,200 that for that. In that same time period, 355 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,280 Indiana's had three different head coaches and so you've had 356 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:41,880 three different types of systems. 357 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,960 And I think you've also with Indiana, you've got a you've had 358 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,520 bad luck to some degree with the recruiting, but you've also had 359 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,520 poor development of players. Simultaneously, you've had 360 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,120 players not take leaps that other players have taken. 361 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,040 What is the cause of all of that? 362 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,480 You know, it's it's not like Purdue didn't want to grab some 363 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,440 of the recruits that I just mentioned when I talked above, 364 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,040 you know, So you could say, well, Indiana got unlucky 365 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,600 because they chose Indiana in some cases, or they just got 366 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,960 unlucky because they got here and there was something wrong 367 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,520 with the way Indiana was developing them. 368 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,560 These are all kind of interesting things and I think 369 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,240 it's probably a different answer for each. 370 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,440 But the the The upshot or the downshot, perhaps you would say 371 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,680 in regards to this rivalry is there's few things more 372 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,320 frustrating for Indiana fans than watching a well oiled 373 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,880 machine take Indiana down. When a lot of Indiana fans, 374 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,720 that's their brains are trained to think that that's what 375 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,160 Indiana's supposed to be doing because that was the calling 376 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,080 card of the program. But it hasn't been for 1/4 377 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,080 century. And that's the thing that people 378 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,880 seem to not grasp. It's it's you know you can be 379 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,040 upset about Purdue doing XY and Z and Indiana not you could and 380 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,120 and I think that those are all reasonable things and and look I 381 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,920 think you run into danger by taking too much out of this 382 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,160 game. When you look at what Indiana 383 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,120 has been able to do the last couple of seasons with Purdue 384 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:15,000 and and beat what we're probably superior teams on balance than 385 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,960 what Indiana had. You can't just throw that out. 386 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,120 But in a season like this where everything's kind of gone wrong 387 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,720 for Indiana, whether it's player development, whether it's 388 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,320 recruiting, whether it's a bunch of other things and everything's 389 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,000 going right for Purdue, it stings even more. 390 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,680 I'm just not sure at this point, other than trying to get some 391 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,720 stability in place and trying to like, finally just chart a 392 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,880 course and say this is what it's going to have to be, I don't. 393 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,120 I think you're going to constantly have this issue when 394 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,800 you're facing up against Purdue because Purdue's not going 395 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,880 anywhere anytime soon. With the way that they're 396 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,800 approaching the game and they can just plug new pieces in 397 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,400 every year, Indiana's a long way from being on that runway. 398 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,040 That's that's the thing I, you know, the problem is there's no 399 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,440 quick fix. There's not going to be a way 400 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,240 for Indiana to fix this overnight. 401 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,120 And I do worry a little bit about the trajectory. 402 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,960 But I also look at it and I say, you know, Indiana looked as as 403 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,960 bad as they look this year. They're not going to make the 404 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,040 NCAA tournament. I feel pretty sure about that at 405 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,240 this point, and if I'm wrong, I will apologize later. 406 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:28,120 But the last time Indiana looked this bad was probably 2014. 407 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,520 Like even those Archie Miller teams I think looked better than 408 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,360 this team does. And two years after that 2014 409 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,840 team, Indiana won the Big 10 title. 410 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,080 You know, Purdue, as we just mentioned, missed the tournament 411 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,400 two years in a row a decade ago and within three years they were 412 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,400 in the Sweet 16. I mean it's it's not 413 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,560 unrecoverable. But I think when you hit this 414 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,360 point as an Indiana squad, you have to re evaluate what you're 415 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:52,320 doing and that's going to be the real question mark. 416 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,560 Because I got to be honest Scott, the words that are spoken 417 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,920 in the press conferences and the actions that we're seeing on the 418 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,360 court and the strategies and like the foul stuff, you talked 419 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,800 about a ton of other things that have been complained about. 420 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,040 I'm just not seeing a lot of adaptation to the moment by this 421 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,000 coaching staff about how they're approaching their jobs and how 422 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,720 they're approaching this team's mentality. 423 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,760 And that does concern me because I don't think you can be so 424 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,200 rigid in a season where even getting to like a halfway decent 425 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,840 postseason tournament and playing well and playing 426 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,120 consistently seem to be such tenuous things. 427 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,080 So I'm, I'm just going to go back real quick to something you 428 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,480 said because I think it's a a piece that IU fans are getting 429 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,000 stuck in is that you know, you mentioned that you know like our 430 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,800 players are not having those like massive developments that 431 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,360 we're expecting. And that's I think what the, the 432 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,320 the fallacy or the issue that we've kind of fallen into is, 433 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,880 you know we got used to that like Oladipo type growth chart 434 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,120 where like some guy would just come back and like Oh my gosh, 435 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,840 like this is unbelievable. And and those are really, you 436 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,880 know, the outliers when you look at Purdue. 437 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,400 Like Fletcher Lawyer is better this year than he was last year 438 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,120 but it's not like you're like, Oh my God, like he's like you 439 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,760 know top ten pick. He's just incrementally better. 440 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,400 And you know, like Lance Jones, you look at his stats year over 441 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,720 year, it's not like there's one year like, my God, he popped. 442 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,840 It's just he got incrementally better. 443 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,760 And that's also part of a larger machine thing. 444 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,240 But it's like that's where, you know, we're waiting for OG and 445 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,840 Anobe to have that one year, you know, Trace Jackson, Davis last 446 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,720 year to kind of go up a huge level. 447 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,240 And those just don't happen. Those are a little more 448 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,320 anomalies and all the point to what you said. 449 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,360 It's frustrating and this is where I am worried about the 450 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,200 course because you know just looking at it a little bit, big 451 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,040 picture again not calling for anything but just you know you 452 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,640 like you said we've had three coaches in six years and like 453 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,960 this is that's not going to give you that continuity. 454 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,240 That's something that a Purdue of Michigan State those teams 455 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,480 have that we just don't and you we had to do what we had to do 456 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,480 for those reasons. But you know what did you get 457 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,920 like a stock option come due or what was going on there? 458 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,680 I'm sorry, just a phone call coming in. 459 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,120 But do you have a do you have a pager? 460 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:07,000 Scott, what the Hell's going on? Scott brought to you by Nextel 461 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,800 and Motorola. Wow. 462 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:10,080 I got. I got a cool. 463 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,080 Yeah, it's a double edged. Sprint has a great pager feature 464 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:12,960 on my phone. It's awesome. 465 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,960 It's really cool. But, but you know the the thing 466 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,280 with the Woodson Higher was always like this is going to be 467 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,840 for the most part plug and play and like we can get going 468 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,000 relatively quick if we're not going to make the. 469 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,960 What I'm concerned about is there is a hard ending at some 470 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,480 point coming, you know whether he stays as long as he wants 471 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,360 like if we don't have 12 more years of Woodson just based on 472 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:37,680 age. So it's like we're going to be 473 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,920 redoing this again in a couple of years and that's where I get 474 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,680 frustrated. Like we we do need some longer 475 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,800 term continuity to build this up and kind of like have that 476 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,120 vision, have that focus. This is kind of my fear is that 477 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,480 A, I'm not sure we're going there now, but B, if it does, if 478 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,280 the ship does get righted, it kind of feels like by the time 479 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,800 we get it righted, we're going to be back to kind of all right, 480 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,720 we got to make a change again, just just based on age. 481 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,760 Well, I don't know. I'm, I'm still, I'll say this, I 482 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,360 think that this is a lull. This is a clear lull. 483 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:18,040 This is you know on track to be the worst by numbers team that 484 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,840 Indiana's had since 2010 And you know, which is crazy to think 485 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,520 about, like even the 2011 team right now is tracking better 486 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,840 statistically than this 2024 team. 487 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,000 And and that's that is a that is a point where you really just 488 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,440 had to have to stand back and say what the heck's going on. 489 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:39,160 What it's what's scary is it could get worse. 490 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,400 Well, it could, although I think what you've seen out of Indiana, 491 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,360 like I don't think there's going to be any huge fluctuations in 492 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,600 terms of where they're at. They're going to be around 100 493 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,120 in Ken Palm for the most of the rest of the way, I would say. 494 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,040 But, you know, look. Ken Palm, if you look at the 495 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,360 like the rest of the season, we we win at home against Penn 496 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,920 State. I know there's no other 497 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,920 projected wins. Well, there's yeah, but I mean 498 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,720 they are projected to win. You know what the 8 by 8 games 499 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,040 overall but but the I mean I think the larger issue at this 500 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,400 point is OK, this season is is rapidly heading towards lost and 501 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,440 unrecoverable. So then what do you do? 502 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,960 Well now you have to look at recruiting and you have to look 503 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,440 at who Indiana can bring in because clearly there's going to 504 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,040 have to be some roster change and some approach changes if 505 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,400 you're going to get the natural bounce back. 506 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,120 And look I I think that there's there's you can look at what 507 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,200 choices were made in terms of the roster construction this 508 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,120 year. Some of that was bad decision 509 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,280 making. Some of it was probably sound 510 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,360 decision making that turned out poorly. 511 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,920 You know it's easy to to be overly critical at this point 512 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,800 and say well everything was awful and and how could they do 513 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,880 XY or Z. And I don't think that that's 514 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,520 fair. That doesn't mean that you're 515 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,880 removing criticism or absolving blame from the folks in charge. 516 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,920 But I do think you can look at it and say, well they had a 517 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,360 thought, they had a plan, The plan ended up not being a good 518 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:10,520 plan. It didn't work out. 519 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,600 Now what do you do, You know what what's, what are the 520 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,400 changes that you make. And and I think ultimately where 521 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,600 a lot of people are concerned is that they take what we've seen 522 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,920 of the roster construction for this year and they're like well 523 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,920 that's how it's going to be moving forward and that's just 524 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,880 not going to work. And I think that that is a 525 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,160 reasonable concern. I don't think it's a it's not a 526 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,320 reasonable enough concern to make like argue for pre emptive 527 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,200 action or anything like that. What I am saying though is all 528 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,680 lies now end up being on all right, this roster didn't work. 529 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,000 The coaching staff was responsible for piercing it 530 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,760 together. What are you going to do 531 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040 differently next year? And from my perspective I think 532 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,800 the the bigger issue for me and I keep coming back to this is I 533 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,560 am less worried right now about the overall record at the end of 534 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,040 the year than I am about the clear deficit in effort and 535 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,400 intensity that I see from Indiana versus good teams. 536 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,800 You know that is. And that to me is I don't care 537 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,200 what players you go bring in next year, whether that is 538 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,560 recruits like Liam Mcneely, whether that's we're going to go 539 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,960 get a couple of guards in the portal. 540 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,280 What's starting to really concern me is that it feels like 541 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,040 and I I felt the same way in the Archie Miller era and it and it 542 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,240 felt like it had turned around and now maybe it hasn't. 543 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,960 But it feels like Indiana is playing about a notch below its 544 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,760 opposition in terms of intensity. 545 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,480 And you see it in the rebounding numbers. 546 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,120 You see it in, you know, not turning the opponents over, you 547 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,800 see it and letting opponents doing rebounding, you know, 548 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,880 Jared wrote a really nice piece in Assembly call on the 549 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,360 newsletter. If you haven't subscribed to 550 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,400 their sub stack, you need to you know where. 551 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,360 You know it's clear Indiana's trying to do certain things, but 552 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,920 they're just not doing them intelligently. 553 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,680 You know this is one of the most profligate teams in terms of 554 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,760 shooting from long twos, which is like the worst thing you can 555 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,960 do analytically right now, and it just doesn't seem to register 556 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,640 with this squad that you can't do that. 557 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,640 That's both not smart statistically and also they're 558 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,440 just not hitting the shots. It's a team that's built around 559 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,200 getting to the free throw line, yet it's a terrible free throw 560 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,760 shooting team. It's a team that's really built 561 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,120 around trying to make life difficult on the opposition 562 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,960 defensively, yet they're not actually putting the effort in 563 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,160 throughout the course of the entire defensive possessions. 564 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,520 It's a team that should be built. 565 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,440 Things like. It's a team that should be built 566 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,840 around, hey, we have two guys that are close to 7 feet tall, 567 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,440 Why don't we rebound the basketball and live on the 568 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,400 glass? And yet they do awfully on that 569 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,480 on both ends. That's that to me is less about 570 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,040 scheme and more about how are these guys being told to play, 571 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,040 What is the energy, what is the vibe? 572 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,400 And whether you want to say that's on Woodson or whether you 573 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,960 want to say that's on the leadership, on the floor, like 574 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,480 on the roster. Either way it's not where it 575 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,120 needs to be and you and that's the thing that stands out when 576 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,680 you play a team like Purdue or you play a team like Auburn. 577 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,520 Those teams play hard every possession and Indiana can't 578 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,000 measure up. If that can't get changed, then 579 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,400 I don't think it matters who you add to the roster moving 580 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,360 forward, and there were already some signs of that at times in 581 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,720 the last couple of years. I assumed that would be the 582 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,600 least of your concerns under Woodson. 583 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,640 It actually seems to be maybe the biggest concern thus far. 584 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,240 Those statistics you were talking about, like one of them 585 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,000 is like we shoot 98% more than any other team in college 586 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,240 basketball along too, which is just a bad shot, shouldn't be 587 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,280 doing. But the galling part is when you 588 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,440 hear the post game press conference, like Woodson saying 589 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,400 we don't want to be doing that. We want to be doing more of this 590 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,440 like well you're you're saying that but it's not being done. 591 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,600 So like again, like there's a massive disconnect with what you 592 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,560 want to do and what your team is doing and that has to be figured 593 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,480 out. No, I I agree with you on the 594 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:01,480 effort. It is. 595 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,680 It's concerning because it's like why you know and you don't 596 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,760 get like you say a lot of times you'll get bonus points for 597 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,320 playing hard at home, but you should be doing that. 598 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,920 We should be doing that all the time. 599 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,720 It shouldn't be in these little spurts. 600 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,760 The other thing that it's not like so much pushing back that 601 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,160 I'll just come to is, you know, we started this pod. 602 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,640 We talked about how, you know, we don't have that well oiled 603 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,440 machine. We need that continuity, need 604 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,680 that growth and I I agree with that. 605 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,120 But it's like we're turning also under this mindset of like, oh, 606 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,560 we got to get a bunch of more guards in the portal. 607 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:31,600 We need to get more guys in the portal. 608 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,840 It's like, well, that's not going to be continuity. 609 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,280 Like that's bringing it. Like that's hoping you're 610 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,920 getting really good guys in the portal who are just plug and 611 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,200 play ready, which would be nice. Like it's funny, I hear that a 612 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,520 lot this year where it's like, man, Woodson should should have 613 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,760 gotten one more guard in the portal. 614 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,640 It's like, well, we did get 25 stars in the portal. 615 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,880 Like last year's portal haul was really pretty good. 616 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,760 You can't go into every year saying, well, all we need is a 617 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,840 center, a forward and a guard who are all five star and just 618 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,920 get those out of the portal like it's not a Kroger where you can 619 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,240 just go and get stuff off the shelves like other people are 620 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,640 competing for this. You're not always going to get 621 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,760 the best. And this is where I go back to 622 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,400 like, you look at this roster and people are concerned with a 623 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,920 guard play. I'm concerned that it's like we 624 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,800 need to start developing some of our own players and you know 625 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,200 like like him, you know for for all his issues at times like 626 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,400 Gabe Cups, we've got to turn him into a better player. 627 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,840 Or if not like CJ Gunn or like we we can't. 628 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,640 I don't like the idea of like we're just going to become a 629 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,480 portal team because one of the issues this team has, like we 630 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,720 mentioned is just lack of continuity, lack of identity. 631 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,000 And I think becoming just always looking to the portal solve the 632 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,080 problems is not going to solve that problem. 633 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,600 Like there has to be some growth. 634 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,400 I'm just talking just fans seem just kind of give up on 635 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,200 everybody real quick. It's like like, no, we we've got 636 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,600 to get guys and turn them into functional players and you have 637 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,480 to be recruiting and you know growth needs to be like 60 to 638 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:03,760 70% of your roster. CJ Gunn was a four-star recruit, 639 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,960 Trey Galloway was a four-star recruit. 640 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,800 Gabe, Cubs was a four-star recruit. 641 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,760 Like there there's the I, I, you're everything you said is 642 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,240 correct. I just think it's interesting 643 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840 like the idea that you need better players either through 644 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,960 the portal or recruiting development. 645 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,880 No, but no. I'm saying people are arguing, 646 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,040 oh, Indiana needs better players and it's like you're getting 647 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,920 waxed by three stars, by a bunch of different programs who are 648 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,800 just playing harder than you. And that that cultural piece is 649 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,040 really starting to concern me. And I'm. 650 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,480 I know it concerns a lot of the people in the audience and. 651 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,000 You bring good players into a culture like that and they're 652 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,800 going to start playing lackadaisical. 653 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,040 You're going to turn five stars in the three stars. 654 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,520 And and again it it's it's as much the tone that's set by the 655 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,320 coaches as it is the tone that's set by the players and and and I 656 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,640 think I look at last year like last year's team showed some 657 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,360 grit. We didn't think that they were 658 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,240 going to have given what we'd seen out of them the previous 659 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,280 three years when they went on that streak where they won, you 660 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,760 know five of nine or excuse me, eight of nine. 661 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,880 It was because it really felt like a corner had been turned in 662 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,080 terms of how that team played and the aggressiveness with 663 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,360 which they they did the things that they did. 664 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,480 And that was not just Trace Jackson Davis. 665 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,239 It was also Miller Cop. It was also Jalen Hoochaffino 666 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,239 who really grew into that role. It was, I mean there were, there 667 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,880 were a bunch of players on that team that kind of carried that 668 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,719 attitude and that just doesn't seem to exist on this year's 669 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,320 team. And you'll get seasons like 670 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,760 that. But that's where to me, it's 671 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,280 like the there's always has to be a personality transplant 672 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,920 plant with this Indiana team because right now they look like 673 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,320 a team that that just isn't aggressive enough, isn't 674 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,600 confident in what they're doing, gets easily kind of put off by 675 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,360 things when when they don't go their way. 676 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,480 And that's a just a recipe for disaster in a big 10 where 677 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,760 everybody can win a a game here or there, you know, And we've 678 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,000 seen Maryland who look like they couldn't get out of bed in the 679 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,080 morning a month ago. They just wanted Illinois and 680 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,000 they almost won it. Northwestern, like they look 681 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,800 like a functional team. You know Michigan has moments, 682 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,640 even as bad as they've looked where they look like a 683 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,240 functional team and so does Indiana. 684 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,960 But you don't you can't be in the Michigan and Maryland 685 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,880 category this year. You you know Indiana even taking 686 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,440 a step back in terms of well there was going to be a rebuild 687 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,200 and a restructure on the roster. This is still a roster with a 688 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,040 lot of talented players that is playing significantly below 689 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,480 where they should be. And again, and I just, I'll 690 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,160 close on this, it feels yes the systems could be better, but a 691 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,640 lot of it's effort, a lot of it is attitude and that is really 692 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,200 something. It feels like it's dominated a 693 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,000 lot of Indiana basketball over really the last 20 some years, 694 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,520 maybe even going back 30 years where it just doesn't feel you. 695 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,840 You when you look at the Purdue's the Michigan State's, 696 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,680 the envy often times comes from how much effort those teams give 697 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,440 consistently time after time. And and yes, there's exceptions. 698 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,480 Michigan State doesn't look like that good this year. 699 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:11,360 But on the whole, Indiana hasn't looked that way for a long time, 700 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,400 and that is really frustrating. Why? 701 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,640 I mean, let me ask you this. Why? 702 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,320 Why do you, why do you think that is? 703 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,520 Because it's been over multiple coaches and like you get guys 704 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,200 like I I continually always like, I don't want to do an 705 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,800 Archie debate here, but it's like this was not a problem at 706 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,560 Dayton. Like at Dayton, it was never, 707 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,800 there's never an effort problem. You add more, he comes here, 708 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,120 it's more resources. Then suddenly the team looks 709 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,960 like, I mean, just looks like it has an effort problem and it's 710 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,600 kind of like it's been unshakable. 711 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,880 Since you have a new coach in Woodson, you still have the same 712 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,520 issues. Like what? 713 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,360 Why do you think this is? Seems to be lingering with us. 714 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,920 Man, I think if I had that answer I or if anybody had that 715 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,400 answer, it'd have been solved by now. 716 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,960 I mean I think it's a combination of things. 717 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,720 You know, I mean I really and I think it's, you know, the VIP 718 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,840 answer, The VIP answer, right. Yeah. 719 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,520 VIP's bad news. We don't know anything. 720 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,600 Sorry. No, the no, I I think it it 721 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,680 actually to me varies a bit from from era to era. 722 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,320 I think with Cream the problem was the lack of focus on defense 723 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,520 and and Crane's inability like Crane seeding the state of 724 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,160 Indiana and recruiting at the time when there was a lot of 725 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,400 talent that if you haven't listened to Exes and Joes, the 726 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,440 podcast by Bob Motes and Mike Weemeth, you absolutely need to 727 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:25,760 do so. There. 728 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,680 This recent episode that they had, they brought up something 729 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,600 I'd forgotten, which was like that last year, coming off of 730 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,400 that Big 10 title, Crane offered like 19 of the top 50 players in 731 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,880 the country and got none of them. 732 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,920 And you know, there was, there was so much talent in the state, 733 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,000 got none of them. I think with Archie, it's it 734 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:54,080 always felt like Archie never found an actual leader who could 735 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,800 enforce what he wanted on the floor. 736 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,160 And it felt like to some degree that was partially Archie's 737 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,760 fault for not recruiting the right types of personalities to 738 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,000 run his system. But it was also to some degree a 739 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,240 developmental issue because nobody really grew into that 740 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:13,480 role with Woodson. Who knows, I mean, at some point 741 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,360 it when it works with Woodson and we saw this last year, it's 742 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,080 because the team is kind of unflappable. 743 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,320 Like they could they would take runs and they wouldn't be 744 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,000 bothered by. But they had a lot of experience 745 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,080 and I don't think that that works on this year's team. 746 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,400 That mentality of well we're on to the next game kind of thing 747 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,920 doesn't really work as well. I used to not believe this, but 748 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,120 I've slowly been turned around on this. 749 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,480 It doesn't work as well in college as it does in the NBA. 750 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,040 And again, though, I think Woodson has not done a good job 751 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:48,080 thus far of finding and instilling a a leader on the 752 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,920 floor to operate on his behalf. And I think Xavier Johnson was 753 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,360 supposed to be that guy and it just hasn't worked out. 754 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,280 Trey Galloway doesn't seem to really be that guy. 755 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,960 You know, Malik Renew is a very talented player, but he's not 756 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,880 that kind of leader. Gabe Cups is way too young and 757 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,280 isn't having as much of an impact on the floor to be able 758 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,240 to do that. Who else on the roster? 759 00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:13,920 I mean the rest. Are like great as a player, but 760 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,160 doesn't seem like he's the. Leader of the team you know so 761 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,200 you know there there does not and and again I think that 762 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,840 you're you're in a situation where if the idea was Jalen 763 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,520 Hutchefino wasn't going to be a one and done this is probably 764 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,360 much less of a concern because I could see Jalen Hutchefino on 765 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,800 this team just being like this is my roster we are going to do 766 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,400 things this way. I'm going to hold people 767 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,520 accountable. You know it's one of the if 768 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,760 you've been following what's been going on in the NBA with 769 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,000 the Golden State Warriors and Draymond Green. 770 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,800 You know there was Doc Rivers had some interesting comments 771 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,960 where he said you know the problem you can't change 772 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,320 Draymond because not only does Draymond have to act the way 773 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,760 that he acts to be who he is but he's the guy that made the 774 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,880 Golden State Warriors actually work. 775 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,040 He was the one that held people accountable and. 776 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,400 You know that you can look at some coaches have that ability, 777 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,480 like Knight to some degree had that ability, but he also had 778 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,960 players on almost all of his good teams who were doing that 779 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,960 on behalf of him on the floor. And you absolutely as a coach 780 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,680 have to have those people. You have to be able to recruit 781 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,320 those people or bring them in through the portal. 782 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,080 And I think that's what Purdue does so well. 783 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,520 It's like they clearly have a central command structure on the 784 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,080 floor. They and and yes, painters, 785 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,720 they're giving instructions and doing all the tactical stuff, 786 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,800 but the culture there and the players that are operating 787 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,160 within it understand that they have responsibilities and that 788 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,680 they have to answer for what they do. 789 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,320 I don't know that that's really the case. 790 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,520 It doesn't feel that way with this year's Indiana team down 791 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,280 the stretch last year. And This is why I think I was so 792 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,200 excited about what Indiana could do this year. 793 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,600 It felt like Indiana had figured that out and it was like for the 794 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,520 first time in a while, that Indiana team felt like a team 795 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,840 that was holding each other accountable on behalf of the 796 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:01,920 coaching staff. And then it just went away. 797 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,320 And I think that tells us as much about what the senior 798 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,760 leadership on that team was doing as anything. 799 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,240 And I think you can hold the coaching staff culpable for not 800 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,400 having the right people on the floor to take that mantle. 801 00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:18,040 It also might have just been very difficult to do that with 802 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,480 this year's team given who left and when and what was actually 803 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,400 left on the roster. And again, it kind of goes back 804 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,600 to what you said. You can say, well let's go get 805 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,520 more talented players. A lot of people have been like 806 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,560 go get a guard in the portal and yes, in hindsight they should 807 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,440 have gotten at least one more guard in the portal. 808 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,440 You don't know if that person is going to come in and be able to 809 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,560 be the the change agent in terms of culture. 810 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,400 I don't know if you can just plug somebody in from outside. 811 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,240 That's really the larger point, and have it work here in the 812 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:48,840 same way that it would work elsewhere. 813 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,880 So the idea that you just go out into the portal, grab somebody, 814 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,360 and that changes the fortunes of this team, I am rapidly of the 815 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,320 opinion that that's just not how it would have worked. 816 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,240 This team almost looked like it was cursed from the outset to 817 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:04,200 some degree because of the mix of personalities. 818 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,520 There just doesn't seem to be a way to get this group to play 819 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,320 with the intensity that they need to. 820 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,760 That's probably not changing down the stretch, even though 821 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,040 I'm sure they're doing some things schematically. 822 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,320 We've seen some better things defensively out of them in terms 823 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,960 of numbers, but when it matters, it's not really coming. 824 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,440 Through the the last thing I'll say just haven't fully thought 825 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,240 this all out but it's like you know the to to Indiana fans. 826 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,560 You know I I, I push back a little bit on the idea of you 827 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,560 know well we weren't expecting Jalen Hutchafino to be as good. 828 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,960 Like that was a two year pro like 2 year process like it. 829 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,240 You know this is guys getting better and things changing is 830 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,280 that's high level college basketball like not the best 831 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,080 comp but you know like you know he was a high level recruit but 832 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,760 when Grady Dick went to Kansas I'm not sure they were expecting 833 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,080 him to be a one and done he was you know it's not just like all 834 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,240 right well what are you going to do. 835 00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:59,240 We can't make the tournament for the next two years like bad 836 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,600 luck. Like this is something where you 837 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,600 know we can't just be fait accompli as Indiana fans like. 838 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,880 Well one one player decided to go pro in the late lottery and 839 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,040 now it's like 2 seasons are scuttled like this. 840 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,280 We have to this is we have to be able to overcome these things as 841 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,840 a program because other teams do this like and they continue to 842 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,720 compete at high levels year in, year out. 843 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:24,680 Again Kansas has it together. They are a well oiled machine. 844 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,800 I'm not making the comp. I'm just saying it does bug me 845 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,840 when it's like we have one or two things happened that 846 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,760 basically happened to every team every year. 847 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,800 And we we look at it as like, Oh my God, like, will this, what 848 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,480 are you going to do? Like can't make the you can't 849 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,120 make the NIT this year. Well, OK, I'm going to agree and 850 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,160 disagree with you. I'll agree in as much as the 851 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,000 following. This Indiana team is very 852 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,640 fragile. Like the the success of the 853 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,320 program is very fragile in terms of what, you know one player 854 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,440 leaves unexpectedly and it's like well there goes the House 855 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,400 of Cards but that's also every program and I think this is 856 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,080 important to keep in mind like you know Auburn who looks 857 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,000 awesome now, missed the tournament in 2021 entirely. 858 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,840 You know we we've seen North Carolina went from being the 859 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,280 number one team in the country to missing the tournament in, in 860 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,120 one year. You know you you know Alabama's 861 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,200 been OK this year but they've already got 5 losses and they'll 862 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,880 they are not the same team they were last year. 863 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,480 Arkansas, who was the. I mean everybody wanted to hire 864 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,720 Eric Musselman like that's that's a bad Arkansas team this 865 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,200 year. That's a team that cannot get 866 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,240 out of their own way. You know. 867 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:32,960 So that's when I look at all of this. 868 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,960 I say to myself, yes, Indiana needs to be less fragile, but 869 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,920 even the programs that are really, really good will hit 870 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,080 these these, these spells where things kind of disintegrate a 871 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,440 bit. Villanova's kind of gone through 872 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,240 that with the retirement from Jay Wright. 873 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:52,720 I mean, it's to me, I don't know, unless you're in a very 874 00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,760 special situation and unfortunately Purdue is in that 875 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,200 situation right now. You know, UConn kind of feels 876 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:00,800 like they're in that situation a bit. 877 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,400 You're, you know, Tennessee's been this way since about 2018. 878 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,960 Unless you're in one of those rare situations where you've 879 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,480 just got the machine humming, I don't know if you can avoid 880 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,520 seasons like this. It's just that the the leash is 881 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:18,440 so much shorter at IU because it's been like this for 25 882 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,840 years. And what what I was going to say 883 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,760 is like the teams you, I agree with you 100%, so I'm not 884 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,200 pushing back. But like the teams you picked 885 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,600 out like this is, this is unfortunately the problem 886 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,600 Indiana has is the weight of past expectations just piling 887 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,080 up. But like you mentioned, Auburn 888 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,480 like well they have a Final four in the last couple of years. 889 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,640 You know, North Carolina has a Final four and a title in the 890 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,080 last 15 years. Villanova has titles and final 891 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,800 fours. Like this is the trouble with 892 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,200 you know, it's like the the trouble with where Indiana's 893 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,400 been in 20 years is our highs just aren't high enough to kind 894 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,640 of make up for those lows. Like the great seasons we've 895 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,360 had. We're not even getting to the 896 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,120 Elite 8. Like it's just it is like you 897 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,400 can we can sit here and round the edges like oh it's a good 898 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,120 year, 4C in the tournament. Those things are true. 899 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,680 It's like we're not getting the high highs which if you're 900 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,240 Auburn, it's like I I I hear everything you're saying. 901 00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:08,160 But that that helps ease some of those bad seasons and that's 902 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,760 where it's, you know, it's it's the expectations of of years 903 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,680 past, but it's like at some point our highs have got to be 904 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,800 higher to make up for some of these lows that seem to be as 905 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,640 low as the other teams lows. Now, I I agree that's ultimately 906 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,680 the issue is you're going to have seasons like this and they 907 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,480 suck. And you should point some 908 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,360 fingers and say why was this allowed to happen at a place 909 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,600 where you're supposed to have a higher standard, although there 910 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,400 hasn't been that standard for 30 years. 911 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,040 Basically, you know, not consistently. 912 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:42,320 But again what's frustrating is the way that this has happened. 913 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,400 Some people saw it coming and we're like, this is going to be 914 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,040 a problem. Others and I'll throw myself in 915 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,440 this mess. I was wrong thought well maybe 916 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,640 the culture has been built finally where they'll overcome 917 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,160 it. You got to play the games. 918 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,880 The games obviously have demonstrated that that's not the 919 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,280 case. And and again if you don't have 920 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,480 adaptation game by game to try to maximize what you can do 921 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,880 well, which it doesn't feel like Indiana does, and then you don't 922 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,480 have players that can go out and execute with the effort levels 923 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,960 required and they look like they're getting out efforted by 924 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,240 teams like Purdue, that's going to lead to a lot of 925 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,960 understandable and justifiable angst and that's where we're at 926 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,600 right now. So anyway, it's A and it doesn't 927 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,080 get any easier. As you all I think are aware, 928 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,160 Indiana's got to travel to the happy action, fun time spot of 929 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,960 Madison, WI this Friday to take on a Wisconsin team that looks 930 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,440 pretty damn good, another team that just seems to plug people 931 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,520 into the system and play consistently well, they got to 932 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,600 travel to Illinois. They've got an Iowa team that 933 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,520 has looked better than they have statistically, it's never beaten 934 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,560 Iowa. I mean it's And then you get 935 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,720 perhaps a slight reprieve against Penn State before 936 00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:52,680 traveling to Ohio State and Purdue. 937 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,520 This this is one of those. But I'm sure Matt like they're 938 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:57,920 they're going to be fine. They're not going to be that 939 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,680 excited for that game. Like they they already got their 940 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,080 win. Like, that'll just be kind of an 941 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,520 average game. For them, there's a there's that 942 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,640 Calvin and Hobbs sequence where he duplicates himself a bunch of 943 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,880 times, and the duplicates all start running around and causing 944 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,600 trouble. And at 1:00, there's one frame 945 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,360 where Hobbs looks at Calvin and says I think we should check 946 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,240 into a hotel until this all blows over, which is kind of how 947 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:21,320 I feel about the next couple of weeks of of IU basketball. 948 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,160 Well, you might just want to check into a hotel until this is 949 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,880 all over with. I I for one probably need to 950 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,120 move seating sections after my performance in the Purdue game. 951 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,080 So if anybody would like me in their seating section, let me 952 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,120 know my like. The the the Galen Auburn meme 953 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,160 for the entire game. Well, no, not for the actually. 954 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,000 I kind of ran out of energy and and and and ran into apathy. 955 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,720 More. Effort we I did my best, but it 956 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:47,920 was probably too much anyway, so my apologies for the people 957 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,440 around me for that one. But man, just frustrating, 958 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:55,000 frustrating, frustrating and kind of resigned to it now, I 959 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,760 guess, Scott, this was to me the game where it's like if Indiana 960 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,880 was going to change the trajectory of the season, this 961 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,200 was the game that was going to happen. 962 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,240 We were going to see what they were made of and we did. 963 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,040 And so that's where we are now. So anyway, on that happy note, 964 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,240 just a reminder that we got plenty of other great podcasts 965 00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:15,160 on the network. You should check out the Doing 966 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,680 the Work podcast just had, I think their 100th episode. 967 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,360 They did the post game after Indiana smashed Minnesota in 968 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,080 women's basketball last night, so go back and check on that if 969 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,560 you haven't yet. The Crimson cast Women's 970 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,200 Basketball Show will be back talking about that tough loss 971 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,120 that Iowa, but also the big win against Minnesota. 972 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:34,680 You. If you haven't watched Film Room 973 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,120 with Tony Adrania, check that out. 974 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,880 X's and Joe's nice long episode talking about coaching and chip 975 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,840 stacks and all kinds of fun things. 976 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,720 And of course assembly call. Be sure to check them out as 977 00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:46,120 well. Scott, any final thoughts where 978 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,600 we go? No, man, no. 979 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,560 Let's look forward to that hotel. 980 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:50,880 We'll we'll catch you all in February. 981 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,720 Can't wait? As they say, yeah, I've. 982 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,960 I've got a nice spot picked out at the Radisson that No, I'm 983 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,720 kidding. Anyway, we will catch you folks 984 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,120 later. Thank you for taking the time 985 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,160 and effort to listen and bring us into your your ears. 986 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,920 Be sure to stay tuned as we'll have some fun stuff coming up 987 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,400 around not just basketball, but also some football talk as well. 988 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,360 For Scott, I'm Galen. This is Crimson Cast. 989 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,880 We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the 990 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:18,920 Bison. That's all everybody.