You're listening to the back home network presented by home
field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson cast
Galen clavius, got Caulfield joining you.
It is the 9th of January is a Monday.
We had an inkling about recording yesterday and
discretion was the better part of valor there is, we did not
angry pod We left that to our friends at assembly call who I
wish they were able to do more happy potting, but they've been
doing some angry potting here over the last eight games by and
large, but hopefully you tuned in.
You remember, you can tune in to listen to assembly call after
every IU game home. In a way, we are the snail mail
version of podcasting, where we generally, we've learned about
ourselves, Scott. That it's best that you not hear
us immediately after any game football or basketball.
So we here, we are on a Monday, we're going to talk Are you
basketball for about the next 25?
30 minutes? Good to see you again.
It's not been very long since we last talked.
But how are you doing now? I'm good.
I feel like we should get give out free.
Oh, Chase. Credit card offers other things
that come and snail mail like we fight.
Yes, we send send dimes for the, you know, for for the, one of
the Toys for Tots and just, you know, things like that.
God, just a reminder. We're part of the back home.
Network has his assembly call, and we are brought to, you are
presenting sponsors home-field apparel your place to go for the
finest and college Fashions. This Softest Fabrics, new
collections being launched regularly, we talked in our last
podcast about the impending new, I you refresh.
And one of several refresh is that home field is likely to do
throughout the course of this spring.
As we get ready for basketball, tournament time, be sure to
check out home field. Apparel.com, buy stuff if you
buy there for the first time you get 15% off your first order
with the code home H ome, if you've bought things there
before, be sure to review what you've bought.
You get some discounts, they're just all kinds of ways to save
money, Scott. Just the way we like it and some
delightful stuff that you can wear by purchasing things there.
So again, home field apparel.com, be sure to check
them out as well on social media at Twitter on home-field apparel
and Instagram as well. Anyway, Scott we talked before
the the Northwestern game about, you know, Indiana might have a
tough sled here, a little bit. I was myself thinking primarily
about about the Penn State and Wisconsin games.
The Penn State game coming up on Wednesday, the Wisconsin game
coming up on Saturday, not that I didn't think there was a
possibility, Indiana might lose to Northwestern, but I, it was
the least likely of the scenarios given how bad
northwestern's been on offense, thus far this season, I thought,
I you especially coming off that Iowa loss would be galvanized
ready to go. And gosh, that was not the case
at all the Hoosiers came out. Late, a gigantic.
Egg through the first 35 30 while 39 minutes of the game and
then try to make up for it at the end.
It was like your classic case of not going to any of the class
sessions and then trying to cram everything into the exam at the
final. And sure enough.
They got an F, Plus, instead of a d-minus as they lose by one to
Northwestern, northwestern's fifth win against Indiana in the
last eleven times they played, which is just not good business.
If you're Indiana basketball lot.
Do we can talk about with this. This.
So we can still, we can go micro and then go macro, how do you
want to approach things? I just want to go macro but I
will say it's it. This was a game where I feel
happy to podcast because you know, you pull me deep into
analytics and you do a lot of analytical research, which is
really good, but this is one of those games where the numbers
kind of like because you look at the end stats, it's like a
one-point game and it's like, as you mentioned like a lot of
that. At the end, you know, this is
also a game where, you know, our defense wasn't great but it's
like it's worse during those runs and the start of the game
like and the numbers kind of even out and even when you look
at and they talk about the assembly calming to reference a
couple things, they said they do a great job.
I thought about even texting Jared like this is kind of like
welcome to you know, what it's like when Gail and I do
football. But I realized they did that,
you know, losing 12 out of 13 Romeo Season 2.
So they've been down this road. Fortunately, we've all been down
this road but they mentioned this that, you know, You could
look at him like aren't we took 18 3 is like, that's pretty
good, but it's like seven of those were from Jaylin.
Hood Shafi. Know what?
I would say most of those were like MBA style threes, where he
just kind of created a three out of his own which isn't really
like the team trying to get more sets to play to get threes.
It's just one-on-one basketball, getting threes, which is a
problem, we can get to. But overall this game really,
when we look back on it, the stats are not going to remember
what we saw with. Is that Northwestern kind of
came in, kicked ass around. And unfortunately, like we've
seen so many times this year since the Northwestern, the
North Carolina game, we just kind of looked defeated and we
just kind of look like we didn't have a pulse to come back and
you know, there's I hate you know, getting on, you know,
players and you'll college kids for playing hard and effort
because I know it's tough. But on the flip side like this,
we've seen teams in the past that hustled for entire game.
Ezra for the majority of times. And when you have, you know,
most of the guys on Northwestern diving after all the 50/50 balls
and us, you know, iut not getting them, you have to
wonder. It's like all right.
Well, other people are able to do this.
And why do we seem so kind of not up for the moment.
Not understanding how important this is, you know, not utilizing
Assembly Hall for what it is like you know, the crowd is
ready to get you there and then when you just go down by 12,
Northwestern. It's kind of like, yeah, like
it's hard to get that crowd back and so it's all of those things.
The micro is kind of what I took away from the game.
And I would say to, you know, this is a really tough spot
because you had two games in a row that you lost where I would
say. Trace Jackson, Davis, and Jalen
Hood Shafi. No gave you as much as you could
ask for. Buy me like hit Ruffino had a
couple more turnovers me like he's also handling the ball 95
over here. Ask him to be the the
distributor and one of the leading scorers and offend one
of the guys other your best guys who have G, like you're asking a
lot out of him, so I'm okay with some mistakes, but it's like
you're getting almost, you know, 50, 60 points from those two,
guys, two games in a row. I don't expect them to keep that
up and you're kind of looking around, like, right, does
anybody else, right? Wanna hop in?
I understand we've had some injuries.
I understand, you're kind of getting deeper in the lineup,
but these are all guys, who I would say, almost everybody on
our bench would have been recruited.
Northwestern and may or may not be starting for them.
So it's kind of like, unless they transferred going on here.
Yeah, that's a fair point. You know?
So I want to say this before we get, bigger picture.
Yeah, it's this is where it gets tricky, trying to talk
basketball because there's so Trace Jackson, Davis, and Jalen
Hurd Jaffe. No, in particular.
Trace Jackson. Davis is clearly hobbled.
He's clearly got some kind of a physical Vehicle ailment and yet
in his last two games, he's scored 35 points and pulled down
nine rebounds against Iowa and he scored 18 points and got
twenty four rebounds against Northwestern like those are
Herculean efforts under any circumstances, let alone
circumstances where you're injured.
And so, you know, you it's hard to like, what do you get?
You know. Can you criticize Trace Jackson?
Davis for being kind of average or worse.
And simply you can, but let's be realistic.
His job out there really is score points and grabbed
rebounds, especially with race Thompson out.
And I think he deserves a tremendous amount of Applause
and I think you can excuse some of the defensive lapses, you
know, because it's a guy who despite being injured played 78
of the 80 minutes in the last two games, like that's, that's
nuts. I mean, that's he hadn't done
that in any two consecutive games this year.
I don't know if he's done that in two consecutive games in his
FireEye ordeal is 40 minutes a game.
Just you can't do that. Like you just had I know you
needed a win but it's like that. You almost make you need to rest
him more than the win. Almost, yeah.
Meanwhile Jalen Hurd Ruffino not just in the last two games, but
really in the last four, really coming out of that Kansas game,
which keep remember was the first game he had played after
missing three consecutive games due to, you know, what was
classified as back spasms. I think it might have actually
been more serious than that. This is a guy who in that
four-game stretch starting. Ilan has played at least 30
minutes every game, and in fact, it played 37 minutes and then 35
minutes has raised his offensive rating.
His offensive rating was hovering around like .89 or
point nine points per possession, which is not great.
It's now over one point per possession used.
He's also if you take conference play only he is the
third-highest assist rate in the entire Big Ten Conference
through the four games that have been played.
He's been dishing out a cyst like crazy.
Nationwide. He's top 200 in assist rate,
which is tremendous. He's also increased his
three-point shooting. Now to her, he's 39th in the
country in three-point percentage at for almost 48
percent. Like so I know there's been
criticism and I understand the criticism and I don't disagree
with it about some of his defensive lapses as well.
He had a couple of plays in that Northwestern game where he lost
the ball and didn't run after it, you know, and Northwestern
ended up with easy layups. But again like You know, somehow
gentleman Jaffe knows managed to absorb most of the assist
related items that we lost would save your Johnson's injury and
has elevated his offensive play. I look at these two guys and I
say they can't be super men, they just cannot be.
They are they both of them? And I've had my criticisms of
both over the course of time. They both have performed at an
otherworldly level offensively and IU has desperately needed
that. And the fact that they are also
essentially being Expected to play at another worldly, level
defensively, highlights something that you mentioned,
which is where is the rest of the team at this point.
And this is where it's really, you know, to me, I think a real
concern and some of it is personnel and some of it is
schematic. This is not going to sustain
even to the level that it has. I mean Indiana.
Yes, they've lost three of their first four big, ten games but
they've, you know, in, you know, the last two they lost them by a
combined three points. Not Both the Northwestern game
was especially not acceptable. In the Iowa has its own in its
own, special way, losing a 21-point lead but it highlights
the paucity of contributions coming from their teammates and
this is where yes you have to acknowledge the injury to Xavier
Johnson. You have to acknowledge the
injury to race Thompson. Those are, those are tough
things to come back from. But a home game against
Northwestern should not be a showcase for a bunch of players
standing around, on offense. It shouldn't be a Showcase for a
lack of energy on defense. It shouldn't be a showcase for
subpar rebounding effort. It shouldn't be a situation
where you have a starter playing 28, 6 minutes and picking up
five points. When that person's primary role
is to be an offensive threat, it shouldn't be a situation where a
starter Place. Ten minutes score, zero points,
commits three fouls and is a negative 16 in the ten.
It's that they played in plus minus like that.
You know, on the one hand, it's easy to blame the stars because
they're the ones that are most visible, but where, where is the
collective effort? And yes, I realize you've got
some younger players and players that are missing some facets to
their game, but we're not talking about playing against
Purdue. We're not talking about playing
against Arizona, we're not talking about playing its
Kansas, we're talking about a home game against an offensive
ly crippled on most days, Northwestern team and it looked
like some of the Players really struggled to even be bothered
with competing at times, except at the very end, by which point
it essentially didn't matter. And that is, I think a real
concern agree. Well, and the other thing to
they mention this on assembly call, you know, for large
stretches of the game. Four of our five players were,
you know, top 35 recruits. Yep.
You know, whether it's Trace, Jackson, Davis, jail Hood, she
knows you mentioning Malik, renew and tomorrow, Bates.
And then whoever the fifth person was, you know, it's you
have more toys. This is where it gets
frustrating because like, I'm okay saying like and I'm not,
you know, we both talk about, you were kind of the one be
like, hey man, Rucker, that's a tough road game.
It's like, okay, it's like Arizona.
It's a really good team and you're right, it's like Kansas
tough environment. Like, you're writing all those
things but then it's like, you know, we can't continue to be.
I'm not saying you're saying this but you can't continue to a
car while it's tough place to play.
It's like all right. Well northwestern's like at some
point. Again not saying you're saying
is look at some point. It's like yes.
And I know like Malik renews a freshman, he's hit the wall but
it's like he's better than guys. Northwestern, like he just is
and we have this is not a talent efficiency.
This is this is, you know, this is where I get concerned about
the coaching and where we're at and I guess I'll just go macro
here is, you know, it's, you see a lot of this, you know, we this
was a concern going in is there's not been a lot of
success of NBA guys, coming into college because it is just a
different style of basketball. I bring up the JLo Hood Cioppino
thing because you know, in the NBA you just kind of like hey
Going to shoot more 3 since I call.
Right, Tyrese, Halliburton can just get a three or buddy hield
can get a three. Like guys can kind of move
around and get their own threes, doesn't work that way in
college, but you just can't tell Miller cop, like, hey, man, go
get some threes like you need to run sets for Miller, cop to get
threes. We don't seem to be doing that
Jalen who Cioppino again. Got seven threes.
I would say six of them were created by him because he's
really good at creating Three's. A great we're not going to we
obviously aren't very good at getting a A lot of guys who can
do that. So we need to run plays to get
guys more threes because as crazy as it sounds this team is
actually not a bad 3-point shooting team but I'm harping on
this because it beliles a bigger issue which is like we're not we
don't seem to be running set to seems to be and when you hear
Woodson talk about things the end of games, I know it's a
press conference and coaches are never going to give stuff out
but he's like, guys got to play better defense.
Like guys, guys just play better offense.
Like, all right. Well, that's kind of the MBA
mentality. You also need to run sets for
them to do things and I'm, I'm getting concerned because the
other thing, too, that you look at is, you know, if you look at
our Big Ten schedule this for game stretch, Iowa Northwestern
Penn State. Wisconsin.
Would you go off the Ken Palm ratings?
This is the easiest stretch. We're going to have like these
next two games, Penn State, Wisconsin are really the only
two back-to-back games. You have teams above 50 and can
pom. We just play the stretch, Iowa
Northwestern were, I think it's the only other stretch where we
have two teams that are Of 40. And if you add them up, you
living Minnesota. Kind of throws things out
because they're 191st. But every other matchup of two
teams that don't involve, Minnesota, is a tougher matchup
than what we just went through. Yeah.
And we lost both of those games. And, you know, we're kind of at,
like, you know, we gotta start hitting, you know, panel button,
if we can't go to an do in the next two years.
So, I'm with you on all of this and I think you know what?
And we talk about these stats on the last podcast about what
Indiana stats had been since December first because you know,
you look at Indiana stats before, they were like a solid
top 25 team on both offense and defense, which equates and
ultimately to being like a top 15 team overall, because very
few teams do both. Well, when you add in what
happened against Northwestern since December 1st Indiana's
defense, Efficiency, the amount of points that they're giving up
per Possession. It ranks 140 First in the nation
in that time. Period, adjusted for opponents
that is comparatively speaking. Nebraska's averages 25th in the
nation, they, they are letting a tenth of a point less per
possession up than Indiana is at this point in the same span of
taught Indiana's, defense has fallen off a cliff as much as
the offense is a problem and I agree to sets are a problem.
Indiana does have more Talent this year.
They have shown an ability to kind of brute force their way
into points at some point scoring opportunity because they
do have better Shooters. Their spacing has been a little
bit better, not great, but a little bit better and Trace
Jackson Davis has been better on the average with it.
What resilient falling down though has been the overall
defensive effort of this team now.
Yes, you'll also save your Johnson but the team wasn't
playing great defense before. Xavier Johnson went down.
You lose race Thompson. Playing poor defense before race
Thompson went down. There is a real effort issue,
right now with this team and, you know, this is where, you
know, you can, you can criticize effort, you can criticize, you
know, I look at it like this and I think we talked about this
after the podcast when we were having kind of our post podcast
podcast that we always have on Saturday, when you look at most
of the really successful teams out there right now, you'll You
look at the teams like UConn Tennessee, Houston Kansas, who
we've already seen Purdue Xavier, you know, teams that
really like pop by and large. They are demonstrating a level
of activity and energy particularly on the defensive
end where they are. They look like, they're really
into the game. They look like they are really
going above and beyond Indiana. Looks catatonic.
Oftentimes defensively or they'll Of one or two
possessions where like someone Dives on the floor for a ball
and Assembly Hall erupts and it's like who effort?
And then that's that's the last time that happens for like five
or six minutes and then maybe it'll happen again.
It's so inconsistent and you know you look across at you know
and this is something we're again.
I'm loathe to criticize. Trace Jackson, Davis in jail and
rufina right now because they are carrying so much of the
offensive burden on this team. But you look at the rest of the
contributors and there either. Making low energy plays or
they're making, not very smart plays defensively.
And that combination is just not sustainable under any
circumstances. And again, I don't think that's
entirely players. I don't think it's entirely
coaches. I think it's a joint effort.
Where something is not penetrating.
I have a hard time believing that like, Mike Woodson and his
staff aren't telling their players to play hard.
But the way that they're doing it is not penetrating and for
the players, I have no doubt that they want to play hard.
But somewhere along the way that is not translating into actually
playing hard. And, you know, Irish, I've
always resist, I hate the word like soft.
I think that that's always an an inconsistently applied term,
that doesn't really mean anything.
There's normally like far more precise things.
In this case, it's like, where's the effort?
Why is it feel like you have to be bothered to go do something
like, you'll play that way against, like a Purdue, but you
won't play that way in an average like run-of-the-mill
game. You know, there's no reason why
you're up 21 points in a game home or away, and you should
come away losing. That game is no reason for it
whatsoever. Except that mentally you take
your foot off the gas. You stop defending you stop
doing what you need to do. And yeah you can point to
individual players here and there and say Well they're
making a lot of stupid decisions.
There's other players on the bench like there's other ways to
go about things. Like, why are those buttons
being pushed and or why don't you see like, more concerted
effort? Don't lie.
That's really what's threatening the season at this point?
Yes, the injuries. Do not help but injuries I mean
that's what that's what separates you from title
Contender versus, you know, a team that's going to be like in
a 6789 seed range, not title Contender and might miss the
tournament which right now is where Indiana is at.
And, and that's a, that's a hell of a turn around in a five week
span of time. No, it's been Sinbad five weeks
Bob, no question. And I think, I think what's
giving everybody the heebie-jeebies and again, I'm
I'm as guilty of this is like, you know, we're gonna beat just
because you know you know produce ranked sixth in can bomb
doesn T we can't beat them. But like I mean it's we're not
going to lose to everybody who's ranked above us and beat
everybody's right below us. So there's going to be some more
wins this year. God hoping.
But we've seen you know this you've mentioned it.
I heard Jared talked about an assembly call like we've all
seen this a couple of years ago. Like this really looks a lot
like the Romeo Juwan Morgan season.
We're that team. Some talent but kind of just
Sleepwalk through and what can happen is you can lose it, can
get off the rails real quick and next thing you know, you're
losing 12 of 13 and it's like just the entire season summary
and that is what concerns me is. Especially with the way the Big
Ten schedule is this year where you're talking three or four
days off and you're traveling every single week now.
There's no back-to-back home games.
There's no kind of get right moment.
You know, this could go off the rails quickly.
Yeah. Well that's what that's what
concerns me and then. I've won more Huger macro
thought, but I'll leave it at that and I'll go to that.
This might lead into that macro thought, I don't know.
I we do, we never check what we're going to talk about before
these things. This is all on the Fly France,
it is very own brand. Um, there's a, it's clearly,
there's a disconnect with this coaching staff and I'm
disappointed about that. Because last year, it looked
like they were making progress towards establishing a team that
didn't have the issue. Is that prior IU rosters had
demonstrated about not being able to finish games, you know
it always we you and I talked on the phone yesterday during the
Archie era and and the end of the Korean Air, it always felt
like well if Indiana was going to win, it was going to be a
grind. There were very few blowouts in
favor of Indiana but Indiana was capable of getting blown out and
it happened on on multiple occasions because there were
just be days where I you would not show up.
And this stretches across three coaches, it stretches across
what 40 plus players. The the if you take the record
this year that I use a crude in the Big Ten and you add it to
the record that I you is accrued starting with cranes final
season. This Indiana team in regular
season Big Ten play is fit, I don't know his foot and right
now and the podcast now I don't want to know it's 50 and 69 it's
a 42% win percentage since the start of Big Ten play in 2017.
If you add in Big, Ten tournament games there 54 and
74, which is So 42% like there's no percentage difference there.
This is who Indiana is. What's fascinating?
To me is cert is certainly that you know, you have this
situation where there's there's a lot of fingers that you can
point at the way that the coaching staff thus far has
handled this team. You know, they took a nosedive
back around the first of December, where they were simply
they went from being a really good team, like a Top 15 caliber
team at the beginning of the year to being essentially, a
team that would be on the outside looking in.
I think if the tournament draw were to happen today.
So you can certainly point the finger at the coaching staff
this year, but this is a multi generational problem.
Now, with IU basketball stretching back to when crane
was still here where I you just doesn't seem like they care at
the end of the day on the floor as much as many of the teams
that they play. Now, some of that is stylistic
some of that is There are teams that are, I think recruited for
a particular system that works in the Big Ten better than
Indiana has. And that's part and parcel with
having three different coaches, that's three different
philosophies that you're trying to construct but it's just
curious that I you of all programs, the the Blue Blood of
the Big Ten would have a 42% win percentage that stretches over
an hour six and you know almost six and a half years span and
they're not be a Real like accounting for that.
Like what is it? Like, it can't be this Coach
Sucks. Therefore that's the problem.
Because again, it stretches over multiple coaches.
It stretches over multiple types of players.
There isn't really a Common Thread other than this is
always, this is now suddenly always happening at Indiana and
that's both not acceptable, but it's also really curious like
why that would be he like what like what's the root cause of
it? Because it can't just be one
thing. Yeah, I don't you are 100%
right? I don't have an answer.
I will say this and this is kind of the we've gotten into like
sometimes our discussion after the Pod is is deeper than a dirt
like, so I'm just going to bring some after pod discussion to on
the Pod because that's what the whole point of this podcast was
is that this is a freight. Everyone likes to be right in
retrospect, but it's harder to be right in the moment and not
saying I'm, right. And by the way, I caveat this,
I'm not saying anybody should be like fired or any of that now.
Just like just hear me out. But you know, a common frame
that we hear a lot is, you know, he got again.
We kept creating, you know, just too long, we kept Archie too
long. Well, okay, Creed and 2013 had
the number one ranked team. Like that's he's going to be
fine after that, but he was here, Four Seasons after that 14
15 16 17. And so if you're going to say he
stayed around too long, like that's a three-year window.
Like if you're going to say like because obvious you're not going
to fire him after, he was the number one team in the country.
But the, you know, and I've heard that a lot like crane was
here too long. II don't disagree.
But it's like that's three years of mediocrity.
See, Archie was here for years. We're like some people like
Archie was here. You got me messed up?
We left him here too long. It's like, okay.
Then we've been using that logic, you should have made a
change after three years knows, obvious and noticeable.
I think what concerns me and we need to realize this real-time
is a lot of those warning signs are things that we're seeing
right now, like getting blown out, losing to Northwestern,
hoping all the things we just talked about.
And so both of those guys, Create an Archie.
You could also say deserved a little more benefit of the doubt
because they were younger. So like if Archie were been able
to turn it around or be good, it's like well, now we got a guy
in his mid-40s. You can be here for another 25
years, Woodson. Just by the way, time works
doesn't have that as an advantage.
And so, I would just say again, I'm not saying not that I have
the power to call for anything, or we should be calling for
heads. I'm just saying that if you're
retroactively one of those people who says, we kept crying
too long and that screw things up, we kept our chew too long
and screw things up then, and if this Season continues to go down
the tubes and we don't turn things around very quickly and
make the tournament then, like, honestly next year should be,
you know, a culmination year to either get the grade or not for
Woodson. And that's just, that's kind of
what's been rattling around in my head is that, you know,
that's, my concern is that people are going to be kind of
like, well, it's give them a couple more, like give him a
couple more years again and suddenly he's here, 34 feel for
56 years, it just looking back. Everybody that we say was here
Long. It was for years and it's like
time goes by quickly, like data this year will be at two years,
so it's just, I'm just throwing that out there or something to
think about that. We got to get this back on track
very quickly because you missed the tournament this year.
You know, that's, I don't want to keep going with that thought,
but that's just the thoughts of rattling around my head.
I mean, it's tough because there's clearly it's an injury
affected team but as we just talked about the issues are she
had an indirect in season? Well, I mean well and issues
aren't that the injuries as much as they are.
The Bert. And the plan because it doesn't
seem to be a plan. There doesn't see.
I don't know what the identity of this team is, I really don't
like, I know, I've been saying that for a while, even we were
doing well, that's kind of a question we have.
Yeah, it's like well. Okay.
What direction are they going to go with this and look?
I, you know, Woodson, you know, so much seems to be hinging on
what he's does in recruiting and I look and I'm predisposed to
like Woodson, I think I'm predisposed to like the idea of
Woodson coaching I think That he brings a lot to the table.
What does you know? What's interesting about this
era? Is, it's hard to use the excuse
of? Well, I don't have my guys in
yet, when you look at the roster, okay?
Trace Jackson Davis is clearly an Archie player, but then you
start going and race Thompson's in Archie player, but you start
going down the list. Like we all liked them, too.
So that's not a bad thing. Jalen, atrophy know.
That's a, that's a Woodson guy. Xavier Johnson.
That was a Woodson Guy, brought him in the transfer portal.
Renew, that's a Woodson guy Banks.
Woodson By tomorrow Bates, Woodson guy was brought in as a
recruit pick up when Shaka left. Texas.
Jordan Geronimo. He's not really a Woodson guy,
but they had an opportunity to let Geronimo walk in the portal
this year and they actively told him to come back.
At least that's how it was presented.
CJ gun, Woodson guy, cop, Woodson guy Galloway.
I mean he's a he's a he's an Archie guy.
So I guess he's kind of in the middle but he's starting right
now, you know, it's just like you go down the roster.
Not like it's populated by a bunch of guys who would send
didn't bring in it. You know, I'd say it's probably
slightly more guys that Woodson brought in either, you know,
through the portal or in recruiting.
Is it a younger team? Well, yes and no it is now
because they're having to play a bunch of guys that weren't
expecting to play, but even then it's not really.
I mean, like, Tres Jackson Davis is in his fourth year.
Like tomorrow, Bates is, you know, middle of a sophomore
year, like that's not what I would consider a young guy, man.
It's like and and it's like, okay, you can make that excuse,
I think, okay, you losing it Iowa, whatever, but you're at
home against Northwestern like this is a Northwestern team that
while they're not terrible. They're, they're also, as you
mentioned, that's essentially probably maybe the third worst
team that you're going to play in Big Ten.
Play clearly Minnesota's worse than them clearly.
And maybe coming out of Nebraska is clearly worse than the but
they're worse than them. Statistically that's that's
about the bottom of the rung. Rung of the ladder and it does
worry me. And I think, you know, what, you
and I were talking about yesterday that I don't have an
answer to, but I do think it's important just to just to make
sure those of you were listening.
We're not advocating anybody getting fired when advocating at
changes in Direction per se, but it is an interesting thought,
process. When you look at the successful
programs that are out there right now, Most of them not
every single one but most of them has a coach in place that
has been there for a while now that has built up structures
that has a direction and I don't know that you're going to be
able to get to that point with Woodson, given his age and given
the fact that he's not a coaching lifer on the college
level, this isn't exactly what you know, like this is not the
world, he came from, this is a difficult model to get your head
wrapped. Around because it is different
than the pros. You're doing different things,
you need different things out of players, you know, your program
needs to do different things and it just it's very tricky to look
at that and say, okay, this is sustainable.
And if you if you're going to miss the tournament this year in
a year where you were expected to contend for the Big Ten
title, yes, certainly injuries are creating problems but It's
one thing to not contend for the title.
It's another thing to look like you can't contend for anything
and you know, if the team rights the ship and wins two games this
week, we're not talking about any of this.
What is concerning though? I guess is this, you know the
what led the team to lose both of the games was an attention to
detail and as much as, you know, bob Knight and his disciples of
always preached. This idea about preparation,
being the key and is as much as we still have this memory of
night, coached teams being better prepared and having the
will to win as well as the will to prepare to win.
You know, the reality is more often than not thus far with
what we've seen out of Woodson's teams is very similar to what we
saw out of Archie's teams and very similar to what we saw out
of a lot of those Korean teams which was teams that look like
on some days they're ready to roll and on other days look like
they can't really be bothered and what I see in a lot of new
hires. And hires with older coaches is
if it's going to change that changes pretty quickly.
You know, it's and it's why I got excited about the first
month of the season because it looked like that and changed, it
looked like oh this team really looks locked in this team looks
like yeah there's some flaws that have to be fixed but this
team looks like it's going to fight for 40 minutes.
That's what that's what we saw in that game at Xavier and for
it to just categorically disappear, the way that it has
doesn't bode well for what is likely to be a very difficult.
Big Ten campaign, I would love to, I love this, Woodson thing
to work out, and I just wonder why this team looks like, it's
just reverted right back to where it was for the bulk of the
regular season last year, and where it was at the previous
season and where it was at, for a large part of the Season
before that, as well, that doesn't, that really should be
setting some Panic alarms off because that is that's not going
to work. It hasn't worked in the Big Ten.
That's why you missed as many NCAA.
Tournaments as they did in a row and it's why they're at this
point early on in the Big Ten granted.
But it's why at this point, they, you look at them versus
most of the other teams in the conference that would be NCAA
contenders and it's like, I don't see a lot out of Indiana
right now, that's making me think they're gonna be able to
rise above not, you know, not just the Purdue's and the
Michigan State's but like Maryland who has sucked the last
month, you know, lost five out of seven games lost.
Just, you know, got destroyed by Michigan on the road.
Got destroyed by Rutgers. They turn around on Sunday at
home and they beat an Ohio State team by seven points.
That was you know, that's top 15 and Ken palm.
And, you know, took Purdue down to the wire.
Like that's the response that you need.
And I you doesn't look like they're up to the task of
answering it even against a Northwestern and yes, again
injuries, caveat it. But that's a real problem.
I think. And I don't know what the answer
to that isn't. It doesn't sound like in the
postgame press conference that Woodson had a whole Out of
answers for it either, and that really does concern me.
Yeah. I mean the pot I'll put want to
end it on negatives but I will, but that the positive is you
know, if you can go to and own your next games all this
changes, you know, there's this is a little bit of, you know,
like shot. React, we go forward, one in.
Your next five games that changes, I would love to see the
IU fan, who's willing to bet a thousand dollars on those
results. Because I think that's why we're
doing this here, you know, the things that do that also concern
me, that give me a lot of pause is, you know, I really Like you
know, coached on Sony on assembly call.
And this is I'm not knocking him at all.
Just when he said this, it freaked me out in the in the
post game yesterday is talking about how you know, you know,
we'd see more probably CJ gun some more Loken Duncan because
he's like, this is a Reba, this is a training year or rebuilding
year and I don't, I'm not it's whether he's right or wrong,
might even go ahead. It's just like the idea of like,
wow, okay, I respect what he sees.
And for him to just be like yeah like we're this is not even a
year, we're going to compete but we're just we got to get young
guys, some reps, we can be better next year.
It's like it was a shot across my bow.
It's like I am not here to say agreed.
This was like, wow, like that. Could be what we're looking at
is like this is like and what's frightening is with the Woodson
idea again it's not like you're hiring a young guy who like
going to take some time, like all right, we can kind of, you
know, so to speak, piss away a year on training because we're
building something here, it's like the whole idea with Woodson
is like Like he'll come in, get the Indiana thing.
Get a couple recruiting like we'll get some quick hits of a
couple years just making the tournament being good.
Then it's like then we can hand off a respectful program to
somebody else. The idea of a guy who I think
even in the best case we're all thinking has six or seven years
here. It's like to just be kind of
like we're going to piss one of these away.
Like early cream years is like that was never anything.
I thought was going to be in our options here and I'm not saying
it's happening yet. Yeah, but it does when you look
at the schedule and you look at where we're at, At it, we are
still in the tournament if they picked it today but we're
trending in the absolutely wrong direction.
And you know this is where again this you know it's this is this
is really where you were in your money and it's really tough to
turn these things around and you really got to dig in and put an
absolute ton of work in to get a team turned around.
And this is where it's like I really hope Woodson and the
staff is able to do that because I'm concerned.
Well yeah. And on that.
Yeah. No, I agree and I guess I'll
just come back to a different version of the same roof ain't
refrain. Which is that your best win in
the last month. Since you know since December
9th is a 14-point win against Kennesaw State a team that you
struggled against were trailing for a bit.
You just were down by double digits, for most of the game
against Northwestern. Team that I is going to struggle
to make the tournament. I don't know what you're
supposed to feel good about and I don't know what the excuse
would be with those sorts of performances, because it doesn't
feel like this, you know, it's not like you're missing your for
top scorers, you've got an All-American candidate and
you've got a starting guard, who is at this point, probably a
fringe first round second round draft pick.
Like, is certainly in the Pro conversation.
Like there are teams that would kill for that level of talent.
Who are outperforming that level of talent.
Talent and and it just, you get such inconsistent contributions
from the rest of the roster. Is that the roster you thought
you were going to have. No.
But why do you need an ideal roster for guys who are out
there to give the level of effort needed to win games?
This has been the problem with Indiana, the lack of consistency
of effort. Again, it stretches across
multiple coaches multiple rosters.
It's not pointing the finger at any one person, but it is at
this point. It's Mike Woodson's job.
It's this coaching staffs roll. And I I'm certain they are doing
everything they can to try to fix this but I'm very fascinated
by why it is not working like what what is the disconnect it
shouldn't be? Like the the level of and we've
seen this with certain players and is no point in naming them
because I think we've all watched the games like why are
you having to like Kajol? And I felt this way at the end
of the night are, you know? And it's not like it's a limited
here. I mean, you go back and watch
those tapes. Tapes from 96 97, even into 98 a
little bit and it's like, why is it such an you know, a huge
undertaking to try to get a level of effort that exceeds
your opponent when your opponent is generally an inferior,
talented team, probably you know, a team that we would, you
know, in our arrogance is IU fans would look down our noses
upon. And it's like, well, that's all
well and good. But they won the game and
Indiana didn't, and it's worse now.
Because, at least those teams were Finishing 500 or better in
the conference Indiana's, a 42% team in the conference for the
last seven years. I think of the greatest quote
for you know the the night you know, 1985 when he's pissing the
locker room screaming I'm tired of F and losing to Purdue and
I'm tired. It's like yeah.
We're to point out is I'm tired of losing Northwestern, right?
Tired of losing to Rutgers like. Yeah.
I'm tired of losing to, like, half the bottom of the Big Ten
know that that stat is, is frightening.
I want to end on this question for you.
A question. I never thought I would ask this
season. And, but how important is it for
Indiana to make the tournament this year?
Now let's not talk about if they will or Camp it.
Like you know, what is, how is, how important is that if we miss
a tournament? What does that do?
I never, well, we need to be thinking about that.
I mean, look, it's Indiana. It's important to make the
tournament every year. I mean it should be.
And the that's when I look at the roster, I guess here's what
concerns mean. First of all, this is an arrow
that nobody knows. We don't know exactly.
We how college basketball works? Now, because with the portal, it
is theoretically possible to bring a bunch of new players in
change over the roster. What concerns me is, you know,
even if the expectations were slightly too high or moderately
too high. This is a team that went on a
run at the end of last season. They made the tournament as it
turned out. Barely there in the play-in
game, they chose to bring back a bunch of players.
Is that they could have moved on from with the idea that this
core was going to be a core that could move things forward and
get Indiana back to a level of respectability.
Like they chose to have all of these players on the roster.
There was a lot of excitement among the coaching staff among
others around the program about how good this could be.
It is to me, it's vitally important that they make the
tournament, and they very well, might still, I mean, Ken pom is
projecting them at 10 and 10 in the conference, you know?
So it's not like the, you know, it's not like the season's over
or anything like that, you know, now it depending on the thing
that you're looking at, in terms of like the projected record
liked, or Vic's already got Indiana dropped to nine and
eleven. That's, that's starting to get
into danger territory. But going back to your point
about what our friends over at assembly.
Call said, if this is somehow turning into a rebuilding year
or a building toward next year year, you're going to have an
entirely different roster or a largely different roster in
terms of who the primary people are next year, most likely, if
that's the case. So what are you really building?
Like it's this is not like, hey we've got this core of like baby
Hoosiers that we have to grow and cultivate as you said you've
got you've got a lot of experience on this roster.
You've got a lot of guys in roles that you're relying on and
what bothers me is. You know you've got Certain
players who by this point should have been able to step into
full-time roles, who should have been antsy to get out there and
be full timers. And then when they've gotten the
opportunity haven't been able to actually provide the requisite
performance on the offensive and defensive sides of things.
And that's to me like if that's the case, what are you building
towards? Because a year-and-a-half
essentially of prepping people and getting them in that
direction you should have either been able.
To get them to the point where they could contribute when they
come in now, or if you couldn't, you probably should have moved
on from them in the offseason and gotten some people in who
Could because we've seen programs across the country, do
one of the other. And the fact that Indiana at
this point is struggling with both injuries taken into
account. With that I don't think anything
excuses, losing the Northwestern.
Barely beating Kennesaw State blowing a 21-point lead at Iowa
like that. Those are things that I refuse
to think that will Oh gosh, we're just too injured to have
kept any of those things from happening that, if that's the
case, then I am really concerned.
And I'm just, I keep holding out hope in my mind that this was
just some big Swoon, but you get hit in the face with, you know,
Visual Evidence enough times. You start to wonder if that's
actually the reality as opposed to the exception.
I'll just one more minute. This is an after the Pod
discussion on the Pod, it your stat boggles my mind like again
that just going through those that that's that.
I'm just playing and Ken Palm right now.
Kind of being like, you know, when was the last time we were?
Because we always say we're projected at 10 and 10 this year
it's like what was the last time we were above 500 in the Big Ten
and looking back? I know you're like encyclopedic
knowledge, you know, but it's like I will say my son, Grayson,
who I love who's in first grade was born in.
He's six years old now, he was born in June of 2016.
He's never seen Indiana. Finish above 500 in the Big Ten.
It was 2016 Yogi's Big 10. Here and then what's weird is
going back. I'm just, like while you're
talking, I'm also playing around on Kenta I'm listening to you
and Tenley 99% of attention to you 1% to Ken bomb.
I'm like, how many years of the, you know, since 2002 have we
finished above 500, the Big Ten and again there's a crean,
there's a gap there with like we were really bad ever say I'm
saying, like, you always have to factor that in but what boggles
my mind is that you get down it's like oh it kind of changes
like near the end, there were a bunch of years above 500 like
the end of the day. The Sarah Davis finishes in 05,
he's tenant. Exit and 07 in 06.
He's nine and seven and it's like, nobody would sit here and
say, you know, Mike Davis is at that point.
His career was the best X's and O's coach.
And a great program manager, like not here to kick on Davis.
But it's like it at Indiana with what you have and with what we
have on this roster, it's not. It shouldn't be this hard to go
500 in the Big Ten like we're not asking for national titles,
right? Asking for a blue blood unless
you're big tent. Titles like for f sake, going
500, the Big Ten and I continue to look at that Samson years,
it's like two years back to back just you know, somebody who
comes in who obviously knows what he's doing were 10 and 6,
and then were 14 and four and that's without him finishing a
year. It's well, it's even
mind-boggling again. This is crean Archie Woodson,
like it, this is a cross, but it's like, why is this so GD?
Hard for us to just get Above 500 in the Big Ten because right
now, it looks like we're going to claw to get to 10 and 10.
Well and this is what I was going to mention real quick.
Like, you look at each of the last several years, you look at
the high watermark for Indiana in the conference.
This is what I think really, what concerns me the most both
about both about Woodson and about the players, it's not one
or the other. Yeah, last year Indiana's,
high-water Mark in, the conference was, they were seven
and four. It was at the end of January,
there's 16 and 5, overall, they beat Maryland that Maryland,
they were on it, they won four out of five.
They were seven and four. They finished at Big Ten season
9 and 11. They lost five games in a row.
After that, you go to the covid year Indiana's, high-water, Mark
in the Big Ten that year I guess, was seven and seven.
They beat Minnesota at home Wednesday, the 17th and then
they lost their next five. Finished 7 and 12 and then lost
in the Big Ten tournament in 2020 there.
That's like somebody who drowns is like the your high water mark
is right before. Well, your last Gap severe?
But yeah. In 20 in 2020, their high water
mark, they beat Michigan State at home.
They were five and three. They finished that season in the
Big 10 9 and 11 in 94 neuro after that high water.
You know, in 2019 they were 3 and 0.
They beat Illinois at home in January 3rd and then they
proceeded to lose, they proceeded to lose 11 of the
excuse me, 12 of the next 13 and they finished eight and 12 in
conference play that year the previous year.
They're high water mark, they were five and three.
They beat Maryland at home January 22nd and then they
finished Nine and Nine. Now you can do you want to argue
that their high water, mark was actually nine and seven fine.
They lost their last two That season, you know, in creams last
year, their high water mark was Four and Twenty they finished
7-Eleven, you know, that season. So this is become unfair, and
I'm sorry if this is depressing the listeners, but it's
cathartic for me and I think, maybe for Scott this is, this is
Indiana. This is the DNA of Indiana.
It is it and I it's it is again, it's not one coach, it's not one
player, it's not one roster. This is the DNA of Indiana right
now. It is a program that loses a
bunch of games in conference against better prepared, better
coached higher effort, higher energy teams and what's yes
Indiana's had injuries. Guess what a lot of other teams
have injuries as a lot of other teams out there that lose
starters and it is on the one hand, we try to be supportive,
you know, as much as we can. But we also try to be realistic,
it's unreal. It's unreasonable to expect fans
or people like us that have to follow the games and try to come
up with comment on them to just be like, oh you know, we'll get
them next time. That's that's not realistic.
Like your yes. Certainly you're gonna have
people do that but this happens year after year after year with
all of this change over it's like what's the real problem?
Why is this continuing to happen?
Why, Why Can't This be addressed?
And I don't think there's a good answer.
I know you don't have an answer. I see people debating this all
the time. I don't think that they have
answers either, maybe it's all just one big coincidence, but it
makes it so that it's essentially not a very fun
program to follow because, you know, you just you keep you keep
banging your head against the same roof over and over and over
again. And you keep getting told, oh,
it's different this time and it's not and there's never any
explanations given as to Oh, why?
It's always going to be better next year until it's not.
And then it's just well, we're gonna have to wait next year.
This is essentially Cubs fandom in the 70s and 80s in basketball
form and it's certainly not what people like to, like, claim
Indiana, basketball is, but I got news for people, This is
Indiana basketball. No, you're, you're right.
Like, this is your right. And then, what, what concerns me
is again. I want Woodson to work.
I like it but it's like, this is a Herculean effort.
This is something that's going to take a ton of work.
Like you said, you probably got to tear this down to the studs
without going forward. 13 in the Big Ten.
It's like, find a way to change the everything that's been going
on. It's like is a guy who's, you
know, in his mid-60s, have the effort and interest in doing
that and doing a full system rebuild on the Fly.
Is he able to not knowing it? It's white.
Like, I mean, yeah. It's it's clear.
It's clear. Yeah.
It's clear. He's able to recruit players
like jail and put your fee. No, that's good.
But there's more to it than that as we're seeing where it's like
for this to work at any program. It's like how have you
constructed the collective will. And and what I guess what, I'm
getting irritated with Woodson about as inclined as I am to be
supportive of them. It's every time this team loses,
its like, I just got to get these guys over the hump.
What's the hump? Is the hump giving a crap about
the game is the hump executing. What's I mean?
Tres Jackson Davis in the postgame press conference.
After this Northwest It was like, I thought coach had a good
game plan and we didn't follow it.
Well, that's a real problem. Like that's that's your captain.
That's a guy who's been there for five years saying, well, we
didn't execute the game plan, the coaches gave us now, maybe
the game plan wasn't great, but for a captain to come out and
say that, I mean, I admire Trace Jackson Davis for coming out and
saying that. But my God, like that's a real
issue. And so I don't know what the
answer is because it's not just about going out and picking up
some recruits which I think Woodson has done to his credit.
It's not just about Grabbing guys out of the portal which
he's done you, you know, I'm not this isn't rocket science but
you got to like there has to be a collective energy and cohesion
and you know, for all the people that salivate over the program
that painters got at Purdue, that's what they salivate over.
I mean it's not, it's certainly not the final four appearances,
but it's but it's but it's this, this Collective will that Purdue
is able to demonstrate and yes, you're going to lose game.
You're Gonna Lose a home game to Rutgers occasionally but you're
also going to win a game when your backs against the wall.
Ohio State, you know, you're funny, you mentioned Purdue and
I thought of the injuries. I just going through, you know
you always know. Just I remember just you know
the Hummel injury it's like oh God you know he could never stay
healthy but it's like they still never finished under 500 in the
Big Ten, even the years that he was out for an ACL, the entire
year. Like I know, I know they had a
really good team around him, but I think that's the point here is
that show. Do we like, we still, you still
have an All-American on the court and Trace Jackson Davis,
who is playing it at all at all American level.
Like you have a freshman who's playing I'm at the highest
level. I've seen a freshman play.
She's probably Eric Court. Well, I'm like in the last three
games, like he's at the highest. It's just like and it's not an
in have those pieces there and it's not an NBA thing, Juwan
Howard, and his four years, you know, the his first year, they
would have been a succeed. If there had been a tournament
as second year, they went to the elite eight and we're a one
seed. In this third year, they were in
11c that made it to the Sweet 16.
I mean, it's like it's again another program where you look
at them and it's like you know, there's some collective will
there, there's there, you know, and I mean, Michigan wasn't
great. Sure.
But hey. Guess what they did?
They finished over. 500 in the Big Ten.
Yeah. So I mean they beat us in some
hell yeah. And we beat them in the big in
the Big Ten tournament and then watch them go to the Sweet 16
and then beat a Tennessee team. That was better than they were
and I mean, it's again and I'm just using them as an example.
You could point that example at with a bunch of other teams as
well. I am fascinated.
Always the the intellectual part of me is like why is it why is
it become that? In Indiana is essentially the
team we all laughed at 25 years ago.
It's wild but that's where they are at and until something
changes and I thought that this year from the evidence of the
first month it's like finally we're on this pathway right back
to where Indiana was last year and the year before, and the
year before, and the year before, and the year before it
is funny to think. I don't know this happen but
just hear me out. It's filled.
It did seem to change so much after the North Carolina.
It'd be funny if you're like, you know, Scot Olson on, you
know, after that game is a guy. I'm just gonna take a month-long
Cruise, like, I know, I got a Tom, Tom Allen problem, but
like, I'm just gonna take a cruise, but come back and like,
we're just gonna, you know, get my head right.
Cuz I gotta deal with this Tom Allen thing in the next two
years and like, but everything else is going to be a basket.
Everything else is good, you come back.
And it's like well there's three alarm fires everywhere.
It's like like, Mike, Mike and use you to keep stuff together,
like, I can't deal with both of you, my programs needing
Possible Cochise has to say we're like, can one of you be
the good kid like please. I need one of you to be the
good. It's just it's just, you know,
it's disappointing because I know I and I look I know
everybody on the program was really excited about this year
and, you know, I'm the fan base was certainly excited about this
year. You know, interest is it was
through the roof and I've yet to hear any good explanations as to
why things have gone off the rails because I just don't buy
that. The injury situation is that
severe. Because again it's like teams
deal. This stuff, you know, it's not
it's not helpful, but it does, it does shouldn't like, result
in what we've seen and that, you know, maybe it turns around like
you said, and hopefully they're they beat Penn State on the road
and that starts a. Yeah, but I mean, I just I'll
say this like, Rutgers is really good and, but like Iowa went
into Rutgers and one, there's like that and we lost at Rutgers
back when we had raised Thompson Xavier John Suite of jail his
feet. Oh, it's like We had most of the
team they're like and we still got not only lost.
We've got like just demolished at Rutgers.
Yeah. And it can be done and you know
we had. Yeah so I'm you know we anyway.
Yeah. So then not a whole lot else to
say we've probably talked too much anyway at this gas but
anyway, we'll be back. Will, you know, obviously I you
plays at Penn State Fast and Furious.
I mean, like now it's like your help.
You know, you're in it, you've got, you've got, you've got Penn
State coming up on Wednesday, you At Wisconsin, at home on
Saturday, you're at Illinois on Thursday, you got Michigan State
at home on Sunday, and then you get a little bit of a break,
kind of going to the barn and playing a pretty hapless
Minnesota team, but then you got to come right back and you got
Ohio State at home. You're at Maryland, you got
Purdue at home and you got Rutgers at home.
Like that is, you want to talk about the potential for things
to, you know, go off the rails over the cliff and into the
ocean. This is when it will happen.
If it's Going to happen and that should be really concerning and
I think I guess the if there's a there's a main theme of this
podcast this episode of the podcast.
It's that if this team plays like they did against Kennesaw
State Iowa and Northwestern against that slate of opponents,
they're going to be like one in seven in that stretch.
And, you know, we're just talking about this on Saturday,
where it's like, well, you know, the Northwestern the right, the
ship and if they can go 500 in this, Maybe that's a win.
Now you're really talking about this is where you could be 11
and 11 during at the end of this stretch, you do for your overall
record and I hope it doesn't happen and I hope that some
stuff gets figured out between now and when the team gets on
the court in State College in a couple of days so we'll see what
happens. Yeah, anyway on that jury.
No, we're done. Thanks to our friends at home.
Feel the barrel and the rest of the back home network.
Thanks to you Scott. Thanks to my wife.
I blew off cooking some pasta tonight, so hopefully I get
forgiven and get a chance to eat.
We'll catch you. Folks on the flip side, be sure
to tune into the women's basketball show with Amanda
Foster. That'll drop on Tuesday.
I said, we'll catch you on the flip side, I'll say it again.
Bring back the Bison, so everybody, Thanks to my wife.
I blew off cooking some pasta tonight, so hopefully I get
forgiven and get a chance to eat.
We'll catch you. Folks on the flip side, be sure
to tune into the women's basketball show with Amanda
Foster. That'll drop on Tuesday.
I said, we'll catch you on the flip side, I'll say it again.
Bring back the Bison, so everybody,