1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,640 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:21,320 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast. 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,560 Galen Clavier joining you right now. 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,640 Scott Caulfield will join us later. 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,800 I talked to IU football 1st and then IU Basketball second. 6 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,000 We got Taylor Layman from Bite Sized Bison back joining us. 7 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,320 Taylor and I were just reminiscing about how it's been 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,960 too long since we were on together and talked football. 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,560 So Taylor, great to have you back. 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,800 It's an opportune week to do this as the IU Spring Game is 11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,240 happening either tomorrow if you're listening on Wednesday 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,600 night when we're recording this, or today, hopefully not 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,200 yesterday. Hopefully you caught us before 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,360 then. But Taylor, great to see you 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:56,040 again. How you doing? 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,200 I'm good, I'm good. Galen I I'm a little heartbroken 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,480 today. Actually, I don't know if you 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,959 saw that the they erased the Mad Ants. 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,160 Now it's not the Noblesville Boom. 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,440 It's that that tears up my 26-O heart so much. 21 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,360 Yeah, that's so that's like Fort Wayne erasure, right? 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:20,040 You know, I mean, you still got the tin caps, I guess, Sure. 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,080 And the Dons. But yeah, no, it's that's a 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,720 tough one. I I have not seen that news, so 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,640 my apologies on behalf of the ownership group. 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,560 Yeah, yeah. No, the I, I, I, I've been 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,320 joking with some folks about that from back home. 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,880 Yeah, it's I. Also realized we're both wearing 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,160 some Oval content. Yeah. 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,360 You know what, I think we did not talk about this beforehand, 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,320 but hey, some days you just got to wear Oval I think is the 32 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:48,040 answer to that. Sometimes it's the five, yeah. 33 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,920 It is. So before we get started, just a 34 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,800 reminder folks were brought to you by Home Field Apparel. 35 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,320 Your place to go for the finest in college fashions, the softest 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:02:01,520 fabrics, the coolest designs. Excited today by the Home Field 37 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,720 news that they're launching a new baseball collection. 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,880 I don't know if you saw this Taylor, but really sweet looking 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,199 IU cap and hoodie. They're not a hoodie. 40 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:15,200 A pullover is is a pullover part of the 2025 Diamond Classics 41 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,920 collection, which will be dropping Thursday at 10:00 AM 42 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:21,440 Eastern. And they hit these out of the 43 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,040 park. Great script Indiana pullover. 44 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,360 They got the nice almost football esque, I would say the, 45 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,440 you know, baseball cap going and just delightful colors and 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,680 whatnot. So 20 different colleges Indiana 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,560 one of those and that will be dropping as we mentioned, 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,920 Thursday at 10 AM. So be sure to head over to home 49 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,160 field apparel. Use the code home 23, get 15% 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,480 off your first order and get yourself one of those. 51 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,720 Maybe pick up AT shirt or it's we're almost out of hoodie 52 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,680 season at this point, not entirely in Indiana, but almost 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,400 out of it. But now's the time to get a 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,080 little three quarter tee action going. 55 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,000 Get a short sleeve, get a cap. You're going to need it while 56 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,240 you're out there in the summertime. 57 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,960 So head over to home field apparel.com, follow on socials 58 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,240 as well. They're a great follow there. 59 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:09,760 All right, before we get to the main part of the pod, just a 60 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,600 quick reminder. We are also on YouTube. 61 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,760 You can watch the podcasts. More and more people are doing 62 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,720 this. We did a live emergency podcast 63 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,840 last night with Assembly Call. Actually it was with X's and 64 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,320 Joe's. We just, it was weird. 65 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:24,400 You had the Crimson cast host and the X's and Joe's guys. 66 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,440 It was like we were doing it from Assembly Calls living room 67 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:29,440 without them knowing we were there. 68 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,880 So it was fun though and we had a bunch of people join us live 69 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,400 on video and we've had over 4200 people watch that episode in 70 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,600 less than 24 hours on videos. We covered Lamar Wilkerson's 71 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,440 commitment to IU and we do that all the time on YouTube. 72 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,080 So be sure to head over there, subscribe. 73 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,520 You get notifications whenever we start a podcast or get one 74 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,080 scheduled and we we use it regularly. 75 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,400 We've also got Spotify. We've also got apple, but 76 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,720 consider subscribing to us on YouTube and also subscribe to 77 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,400 the Crimson cast sub stack. Subscribe to the bite sized 78 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,880 bison sub stack. Ours is free. 79 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,760 Taylor's you should just go ahead and subscribe to because 80 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,560 it's a little bit of money for a huge amount of information. 81 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,240 If you want to be informed about IU football, as I know all of 82 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,720 you do, that's the place to go get the info. 83 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,000 So with all that, Taylor, you had a post the other day 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,640 previewing the spring game and we wanted to talk a little bit 85 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,120 about the spring game and just everything that's going on this 86 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,280 week. It's it's quite an interesting 87 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:31,720 time for IU in terms of where they're at. 88 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:37,320 It's been a pretty quiet spring. Only one major injury, which was 89 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,760 an unfortunate one obviously, as Indiana ends up losing, you know 90 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,200 what looked like one of their premier imports in the portal 91 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,000 and needs to do something to fix that. 92 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,960 Is Tyler Morris out with a knee injury for the entire year? 93 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,320 But the rest of it's been pretty pretty on the down low. 94 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,280 And other than Kurtz Signetti getting real mad one day about a 95 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:01,480 lack of effort, there hasn't been a whole lot of other 96 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,040 noteworthy news. Which I would argue coming off 97 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,360 of a season like Indiana had is a good thing. 98 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,160 You kind of just want to let this thing simmer on the stove 99 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,520 for a little while, unmolested. Yeah, Yeah. 100 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,880 That that Chris Dignity press conference made me feel like I 101 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,480 was back on my high school football team. 102 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Yeah. But yeah, I was, I was like, OK, 103 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,920 I like this. I like this coming from the 104 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,280 coach, you know, because, I mean, you hear all the time, 105 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,160 like great things from all of these press conferences, which 106 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,000 is understandable. Everybody thinks their team is 107 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,200 the best team in the country right now. 108 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,440 And hearing that honesty from him is, is, you know, not 109 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,880 surprising, but also a bit refreshing in in some regards. 110 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,280 But also, you know, what he was talking about and kind of 111 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:44,160 related to what you were saying is there's a lot of time between 112 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,760 now and and, you know, the opening week, week 1. 113 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,080 So there's still a lot to learn about this team behind closed 114 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,040 doors. And they're the, you know, 115 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,000 player movement is, is not over. That's going to, you know, 116 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,680 that's kind of speeding up now again with the spring portal. 117 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,840 But yeah, yeah, the the spring was, this seemed to be pretty, 118 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,760 pretty uneventful, which is honestly, yeah, like you said, a 119 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,920 good thing. Like you, you don't most of the 120 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,600 news coming out of a spring camp is, is probably bad news. 121 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,440 So I think you have as little news as possible as good. 122 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,960 If you're not having to publicly announce that you're moving on 123 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,720 from your starting quarterback over an nil dispute, you're 124 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,040 probably done fairly well for yourself in the spring 125 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,800 circumstances. You mentioned the portal, and 126 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,200 this is I, I feel so bad for fans who aren't like sickos like 127 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,880 you and me who have to keep up with all this news because it's 128 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,760 got to be confusing. It's like, wait, we just had the 129 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,800 portal. Why do we have another portal? 130 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:46,040 Well, part of the issue with this whole situation is, is the 131 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,480 NCAA tries poorly to balance. These are just students. 132 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,400 Therefore, they need to be allowed to move with the 133 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,280 realities that these are really employees that are earning money 134 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,560 for this. In many cases, you have to have 135 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,560 a second portal window and coaches, I don't think hate it 136 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,120 in terms of like it allows them to plug holes that they maybe 137 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:07,560 weren't able to fill the first time. 138 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,600 You get a a whole spring of evaluating who really should be 139 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,120 on the team and who shouldn't. And it's, it's a short portal 140 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,040 window, but there's going to be, I saw some figure the other day, 141 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,600 they're estimating like $50 million minimum in NIL money is 142 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,600 probably going to exchange hands over this one week of portal 143 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,280 window that's coming up. It's nuts. 144 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,680 But this is an opportunity for Indiana, who's more appealing 145 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,360 now as a destination certainly than they were last year. 146 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,120 And now Kurt Signetti and his staff have had a full 6-8 weeks 147 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,160 to really dig in and evaluate what they've got on this roster. 148 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,000 Yeah, you know, the, the people that you hear complaining about 149 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,240 the portal the most are, are coaches, but they use the portal 150 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,360 to their to their gain as well. You know this, it is concerning 151 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,320 with the spring portal being after spring camp and you see a 152 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,880 lot of programs doing away with their scrimmages, their spring 153 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,360 game scrimmages so that they're not showing other other folks 154 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,880 their their talent. It would potentially open 155 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,360 themselves up to poaching. I'm not. 156 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,680 I'm not sure exactly how much of that goes on, but but I will say 157 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,760 I'd. Also say I don't I hate the idea 158 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,320 that it's called poaching 'cause it's like it's just player 159 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,080 movement like this happens. But anyway, go on please. 160 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,520 Yeah, Yeah. No, totally I I agree. 161 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,280 But, but when I look at what happened after the spring game 162 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,640 last year and some of the departures, obviously there was 163 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,960 still a lot more work to be doing with this roster at this 164 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,080 point last year for Indiana. But the major loss that they 165 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,960 really had last year was Kobe Minor. 166 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,680 He was, he was the the one that left after the spring game, 167 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:53,680 which was, and at that point they hadn't, they hadn't gotten 168 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,280 DeAngelo Pollens yet. So there was a minute there. 169 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:57,800 We were like, who is the quarterback 1? 170 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,400 And so, so you know, so there's a lot of movements. 171 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,240 I mean, when you look at the the guys who arrived, and this is 172 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,280 kind of what I'm talking about. I'm not like pointing to cursing 173 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,640 Neti or anything like that, but this is how it can benefit a 174 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,600 program and coaches involved as well. 175 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,480 The guys that arrived were DeAngelo Pons, CJ W, Andrew De 176 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,720 Pape, then Salomon Van Horst, Tyreke Tucker, and then a couple 177 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,360 old deaf guys and Naji Logan and Sidarius Dawes. 178 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,520 Those were big additions for that 20/20/14, especially CJ 179 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,320 West and DeAngelo Pons, of course. 180 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,480 But yeah, so you know, the the player movement, it it benefits 181 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,400 both sides. And then like we like we see 182 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,600 with the Tennessee quarterback, Nico, he you know, he that that 183 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,320 would that I, I don't, I don't know, obviously it was about 184 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,120 money that, but I think it could also be about Tennessee offense. 185 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,480 People are saying it has to be one of the other. 186 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,040 I think it could be both. It could be both. 187 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,040 Yeah. Well, and and and you know, and 188 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,680 again, it's like, was that an upgrade for UCLA at quarterback 189 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:57,640 from what they had probably is it better for Tennessee that 190 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,080 he's not there anymore? Sure. 191 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,440 You know, these are these are evolving processes is how I 192 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,040 would look at it. And I think especially for a 193 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,280 school like Indiana where there's reasonable amounts of 194 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,680 questioning, like how sustainable was what happened 195 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:16,760 last year as you move forward, you know, you, you have to trust 196 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,680 the evaluative processes of the coaches because they clearly did 197 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:23,080 an amazing job of, of both sets of portal additions that they 198 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,560 did last year. But you know, it's, you 199 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,640 mentioned this in, in the bite sized Bison preview of the 200 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,480 spring game. You know, it's interesting 201 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,680 'cause we're starting to see some names pop into the portal 202 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,680 that were supposedly really highly regarded by the previous 203 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,800 coaching staff, stuck around for that first year, and now they're 204 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,480 no longer here. So I think you can you can, you 205 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,400 can take some things from that. And given that you still have a 206 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,600 roster that's kind of part Tom Allen, part Kurt Signetti, James 207 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,160 Madison, part Kurt Signetti Indiana, that's a lot of 208 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,440 different things. And it's better that there be 209 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,560 processes by which you can move players out that no longer 210 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,200 belong or didn't measure up to expectations or didn't develop 211 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,720 and bring in new guys rather than just what we got to keep 212 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,160 those guys on the roster for the next year or two years or three 213 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,640 years or until they decide to transfer there. 214 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,120 This allows for a little more of a mutual settling of where the 215 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,840 roster is and who's on it and and what positions you need to 216 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,240 focus on. It's interesting too, Galen, 217 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,280 because when you look at this, there's a note that I first saw 218 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,640 Zach Osterman make, which was that there are three guys, 3 219 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,080 high school guys left from the 2023 class. 220 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,440 There were only 17 in the, it's kind of a small class in the 1st 221 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,280 place, but you know, 3 left is, is a little jarring. 222 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,840 But then when you look at the scholarship chart, which I, I 223 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,280 maintain a scholarship chart isn't the, the latest BSB is 224 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:50,120 linked there. There's six sophomores and so so 225 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,560 they are and, and those six sophomores are, you know, 226 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:57,600 they're some of the some of the guys that they recruited 227 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,000 directly. And when they came in in 2024, 228 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,760 that's that's like Daniel and Duque, Mario and Dino or Elijah 229 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,320 Hardy. Those guys were all guys that 230 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,160 they brought in. And then of course, the the 231 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:12,480 three ones, Nico Radicich. So, you know, so there's a these 232 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,000 guys, our guys that they clearly felt, you know, fit their 233 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,960 standard and and their system and then they're going to build 234 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,520 up behind them. So this is going to be, I mean, 235 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:22,920 it might be a reality every season. 236 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,560 It's hard to project where college football is going, but 237 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,600 it seems like this is clear that, you know, they're going to 238 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,760 work their way through the transfer portal like this, build 239 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,760 each each team as it goes, try to find as much longevity as 240 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,400 they can with these guys and then kind of work their way up 241 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,640 to the high school ranks. I think this 2026 class is going 242 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,280 to be a huge part of that process as well. 243 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,840 But yeah, like you were saying, Galen, like, you know, there's 244 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,040 there's some guys that they're pushing out that, you know, had 245 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,080 they were getting some praise from the previous previous 246 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,240 regime and, you know, but I think they're trimming some fat 247 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,280 from the roster to build up muscle in other places. 248 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,200 That's the way I put it in the in BSB. 249 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,720 Yeah, it's, it's I'm, I'm glad that they waited on some of them 250 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,360 because I think you do have to give players a chance to develop 251 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:09,840 and grow. But if it's not going to work 252 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,560 or, you know, if it's a mismatch in one way or another, I think 253 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,600 we've seen it's best to move on and figure out something else. 254 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,480 And there's plenty of players out there, as we've seen. 255 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,600 You just got to, you got to hit on the right guys and that's 256 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,880 always the big question mark. And that's what makes the spring 257 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:30,640 game fun, albeit inconclusive in terms of what you're actually 258 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,880 going to see. So I think for the and, you 259 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,520 know, I don't know, there weren't that many people at the 260 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,880 spring game last year. I'm hoping there's going to be 261 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,720 more people at the spring game this year. 262 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,120 I don't know if there will be. It's on a Thursday night. 263 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,560 They moved it from the original date on Saturday. 264 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,600 It's not going to be televised, but I would hope there'd be more 265 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,360 people out, particularly students 'cause you could tell 266 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,040 like student enthusiasm for football this time last year was 267 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,480 at an all time low. It's significantly higher than 268 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,760 that. There's been some promotions to 269 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,680 try to get some students out there, which I like to see. 270 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,400 What is it that people, you've obviously, you've covered spring 271 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,440 games at IU, you've covered spring games at Ohio State. 272 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,560 What should people be looking for when they go to watch this 273 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,920 half of football that's going to be scored oddly and you know, 274 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,600 it's going to really be less of a game and more of a showcase of 275 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,800 where players are at at a moment in time? 276 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,880 Yeah, I think it's hard for people to get a foothold if they 277 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,120 don't know a lot about football strategy, you know, so. 278 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,200 So the way that I always approach when I'm looking at 279 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,160 when I'm looking at offenses, like we've watched the whole 280 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,880 season of of, of Indiana's offense, you know, so you'll be 281 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,880 able to pick up on some differences because there there 282 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,640 is carry over from the previous season, the previous system. 283 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,760 So, but the way that I always look at it, I, I targeted the 284 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320 tight ends last year. I wanted to see how they used 285 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,280 tight ends because I didn't, I didn't think they used them very 286 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,240 well in in previous seasons. And so that was a big, a big 287 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,240 clue into how this offense is going to be ran in in 24/20/24. 288 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,720 I think the same thing is going to happen in 2025 because the 289 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,640 Titan position is really interesting right now with this 290 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,560 Indiana offense. So watch the Titans because 291 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,000 obviously specifically for this season, but also Titans can show 292 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,600 you a lot about how an offense is ran. 293 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,120 I think last year it was, it was difficult because the, the 294 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,200 running backs looked like world beaters last year, but there 295 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,320 were like hardly any interior defensive lineman in that game. 296 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,200 So it was difficult to know. So when, when you're looking at 297 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,040 like a, like a, a system, you know, when you're, when you're 298 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,240 considering like offensive lineman and running backs 299 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,640 working together within the running game, that might not 300 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,760 always get you the best, the best clue into how that that 301 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,040 unit is going to perform or how that phase the offense will 302 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,400 perform. Because we just don't. 303 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,960 We don't know, you know? Who the what's? 304 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,600 Experimentation and what's not. And so, you know, I, I look at 305 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,000 the Titans on offense and I'm going to be looking at obviously 306 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,840 defensive line rotations and then safeties on defense and 307 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,640 seeing, you know, how they kind of maneuver defensively. 308 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,000 I don't think there'll be too many changes, but the biggest 309 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,160 change I think is probably going to be along the defensive line. 310 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,960 Who plays defensive end. How does you know, how does 311 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,280 Mikhail Kamaro look at stud if if, if he plays much at all? 312 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,680 And then, you know, how do they rotate on that interior 313 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,760 defensive line? But honestly, the spring game is 314 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,240 great for just seeing the guys on the field together, seeing 315 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,080 Fernando Mendoza throw some passes, seeing what the 316 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,840 receivers look like compared to last year. 317 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,280 But I think one of the big things that I'm also looking for 318 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,840 is just an opportunity to see the young guys play because 319 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,720 you're not going to see them on the field in 2025. 320 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,360 So if there are particular young guys that that you like that you 321 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,160 want to watch, you know, you take this opportunity to do so 322 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,920 because they're probably not going to be playing much in 323 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,320 2025. Yeah. 324 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,120 I mean, yeah, I don't know if. I answered your question. 325 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,280 Oh, you did. Look, I think I, I think for a 326 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,280 lot of people, again, we, as we've talked about many times, 327 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,680 there are people in the IU football fan base who understand 328 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,440 what a, a true college football culture is like. 329 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,319 There's many other, the majority of people in the IU fan base 330 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:16,359 that this is the first offseason I think they've gone into really 331 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,880 psyched up about football and wanting to know. 332 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,319 And so I, I appreciate you breaking it down as far as maybe 333 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,119 some things to keep an eye on. I, I think it's also worth 334 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,599 noting and you did a great job of, of bringing this up in, in 335 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,600 the recent bite sized Bison newsletter. 336 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,800 Don't take too much from performances, particularly at 337 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,920 the skill positions. You mentioned the running backs 338 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,240 look like gangbusters last year and they ended up being very 339 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,200 good, but in a different way than we saw in the spring game. 340 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,640 And everybody was excited about Tave and Jackson and everybody 341 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,480 was a little skeptical about Curtis Rourke. 342 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,120 And wow, that we we saw how that went. 343 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,960 You, you had one guy who, you know, without the injury, well, 344 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,760 you know, might have been, you know, a mid round draft pick and 345 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,520 you had another guy who isn't here anymore. 346 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,640 So there's there's there's just some you don't want to read too 347 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,520 much into anything with this. As you said, it's great to see 348 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,920 guys on the field, but the statistical performances are 349 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,120 probably not going to be anything that you would want to 350 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,600 bet on going into August and September. 351 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,840 No, I remember Lincoln Murph, though, a walk on cornerback had 352 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,280 a had a pretty solid game that, you know, he was, he was on for 353 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,920 some some important reps. I think he ran with the twos at 354 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,920 one point and then we didn't see him at all the regular season. 355 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,240 I remember Alex Rodriguez, the running back. 356 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,520 I can't remember what season it was. 357 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,280 We had a great spring game, you know, several years ago and just 358 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,560 nothing from him. That's just that's just the way 359 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,160 the spring games go. But yeah, I, I do remember 360 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,000 being, you know, I, I knew that it was going to take a minute 361 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,280 for Curtis work and wide receivers to kind of gel and for 362 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,400 that offense to work 'cause everybody just getting into 363 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,760 town, they will see you something a little bit more 364 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,600 advanced now. But in, in, in the end, like it 365 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,200 like this could be an even better passing attack than than 366 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,000 last season. And it could, it could look 367 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,120 worse than it did last year. And in the spring game, there's 368 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:07,440 just, it's just really hard to tell. 369 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,200 I remember also on top of that, another example is Drew Alar at 370 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,440 Penn State. He has some terrible looking 371 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,480 throws for during their spring game last year. 372 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,120 And people thought Penn State was going to be, you know, not 373 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:23,600 very good because he couldn't throw the ball. 374 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,480 But then, you know, we saw off our Penn State when he wasn't 375 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,880 exactly, you know, fantastic. But he wasn't bad. 376 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,440 He was, he was good. Yeah. 377 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,360 So just just some things to keep in mind for everybody because 378 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,320 ultimately this it's it's odd because it's like it's a lot of 379 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,760 hype in terms of like, oh, it's the spring game and then it's a 380 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,400 half of football and it's at 8:00 at night and and then it's 381 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,120 over. And then then you're done with 382 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,000 football for a while, except for the Portal editions, which 383 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,200 obviously we'll be tracking. I add one thing, Galen, it's, 384 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,360 it's really hyped also because it's a big recruiting event. 385 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,920 So they they want it to feel hyped. 386 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,360 They want people to be there. I remember last year you were 387 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:03,520 saying this. I remember last year it was 388 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,760 mostly just like family of the players. 389 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,040 I remember sitting in the stands and I'm like, it's mostly just 390 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,640 like family and friends. But yeah, the it's it's 391 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,920 definitely important to kind of take a lot of these things with 392 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,400 a grain of salt and just kind of enjoy what you're looking at. 393 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,680 There's not a whole lot of analysis you can really do. 394 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,360 Yeah, you know, but but you know, it is some of the 395 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,720 positions you talked about probably not things that you're 396 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,960 going to focus on initially as a a spectator. 397 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,880 I mean, who goes to a game to watch the defensive line 398 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,400 specifically in the rotations? Taylor Lehman is that. 399 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,120 Person, by the way, mentally ill folks like me. 400 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,200 But these are, I always liken it to it's, it's like a prototype 401 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,720 of a car. You're probably going to make 402 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,280 some engineering changes to the car, but you got to make one 403 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,400 first and see what works, what doesn't, what it, what's in 404 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,880 conflict with something else. And this is a nice way to do 405 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,440 that as a, as a fan, you know. And again, you may not have a 406 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,000 carryover personnel wise down the line, especially since 407 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,440 there's probably going to be some transfer portal additions 408 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,720 that could change that. You mentioned tight end being a 409 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,480 good example there. There's been a lot of buzz about 410 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,600 tight ends in the portal. You got the Cal tight end in the 411 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,760 portal. You got a Wisconsin just lost a 412 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,160 tight end to the portal. So you've already got some 413 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,880 pieces that are floating around. But Indiana's certainly going to 414 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,080 be evaluating. This is perhaps an opportunity 415 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,200 for them to get those people in the building, see how things are 416 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,960 done, and be able to make a sale, so to speak, on what they 417 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,160 could do here at Indiana. And then obviously, high school 418 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,400 recruiting still very important. And you're still building from 419 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,400 the ground up with that, like you're still forming those 420 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,480 connections. If you're Kurt Signetti and his 421 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,760 staff, you're, you've only been in the, the job now for what, 16 422 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,520 months, 17 months, whatever it is, you're you're there's a lot 423 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,640 of layering that has to go in with that. 424 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,360 And this is it's why it was what the frustrating thing about Tom 425 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,400 Allen not wanting the spring game, you know, because it's 426 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,880 like that was the regime that couldn't afford to not have a 427 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,800 big recruiting event to bring people in. 428 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,960 And yet they went away from it for reasons that we've 429 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,680 speculated on on the podcast before. 430 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,200 So it's it's a welcome change. And it's nice to see Kurt 431 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,160 Signetti recognizing that and not taking the mat rule 432 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,040 approach. You know, there there's it's not 433 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,600 like, well, I can't be held accountable if they steal my 434 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,880 players. It's like, well, no, we're just 435 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,240 going to go do what we need to do and get what we need out of 436 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,320 it. And then maybe we can add some 437 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,320 additional people to the mix. Yeah, absolutely. 438 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:31,480 And, and you know, I, I also, I like that, you know, the spring, 439 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,080 the spring games almost seem like a party when, when you're 440 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,440 not. Like, I remember when I was 441 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,600 covering Ohio State and covering their spring game, it felt 442 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,200 almost more like a, like a party than a scrimmage. 443 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,400 And, and it was because they, they, they want those vibes for 444 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,160 the, for the recruits. And now, now you can have 445 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,320 transfers, like they'll probably have transfers visiting for the 446 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,560 spring game. So it's not just high school 447 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,240 recruits. It's also, you know, transfers 448 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,080 to potentially come in the spring. 449 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,760 So so yeah, I think I think there is multifaceted. 450 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,800 It's not just what you see on the field and what the what the 451 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,080 fans see. There's also a lot of things 452 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,720 happening behind closed doors as well. 453 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,040 So there are a lot of things going on that the coaches are 454 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,640 thinking about and, and, and maneuvering. 455 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,720 So it's an exciting time, but we don't see all of it, right? 456 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,160 And, and the transfer portal thing is going to be interesting 457 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,840 because having it on a Thursday, one of the benefits is you're 458 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,480 not going up against a bunch of other people's spring games on 459 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,320 Sunday or Saturday or Sunday. So you could kind of squeeze one 460 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,840 in, perhaps get people here who might not otherwise have been 461 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,200 able to come because they might be being courted by other 462 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,160 schools and they'd rather check those out. 463 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,680 So yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. 8:00 kick at Memorial 464 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,600 Stadium. I think doors open at 7:00. 465 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,080 I'm going to be over there. I got a press credential for 466 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,000 this one. So I'll be, I'll be up in the 467 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,080 box watching from, from the from that seat. 468 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,600 And I think are you going to be up there too or are you down in 469 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,240 the stands? I'm going to be down in the 470 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:53,680 stands. I actually prefer to be in the 471 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,080 stands because I can see the players a lot closer. 472 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,080 So that's that. That was really fun last year. 473 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,800 I don't know if I have the same opportunity this year because 474 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,600 there might be more people there, but I was like right, 475 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:04,920 right up there and watching them. 476 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,080 It was it was, it was a good time. 477 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,800 It was really enlightening to yeah, if you can get as close to 478 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,480 the field as possible, I'd definitely I recommend it. 479 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,080 Well, come see Taylor or me or both of us at the spring game 480 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,000 tomorrow at Memorial Stadium. We'd love to to just say hi. 481 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000 I'll, I'll, I'll see what I can do. 482 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,640 I'll try to get down to the stands a little bit because I 483 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,640 always enjoy watching from the stands as well for many of the 484 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,360 reasons you just mentioned. But Taylor, thank you for 485 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,960 joining us on the show again, Bite Sized Bison is the 486 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,760 newsletter. Go subscribe right now. 487 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,320 If you would like to be informed about IU football. 488 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,840 It's pretty much the best place to get that. 489 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,720 And we'll look forward to having you on again soon because we got 490 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,360 to talk some basketball at some point as well. 491 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,880 Yeah, yeah. No, I was really excited about 492 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,680 the Lamar Wilkerson edition too. I I would stay on and talk with 493 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,760 you and Scott. But I gotta go. 494 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,000 The man's got places to be. Taylor Layman bite sized bison 495 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,480 buddy. Thanks so much for joining us. 496 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,360 We'll catch you soon. Thanks for having me on. 497 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:01,240 All right, Taylor hopping off and guess who's joining us? 498 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,800 It's Scott. Hi, Scott. 499 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,720 How you doing man? Yeah, we're doing fine. 500 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,760 You know, I've been. I scheduled myself very poorly 501 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,680 because I do, I have another podcast that I I produce and I'm 502 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,920 a guest on and I did 3 episodes of that before this podcast. 503 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,520 So even by dude, I don't talk to my wife about my other wives. 504 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,160 So you can just leave this. You know, you shouldn't be 505 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,800 talking to me about this. I like how that's where you went 506 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,880 and not wow, Galen's been podcasting for two hours 507 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,400 straight after doing an hour Long live podcast yesterday. 508 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,600 You know, you were just like, I don't want to be jealous. 509 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,960 Yeah, that's exactly, exactly it. 510 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,600 Enjoy the practice tomorrow. It it reminds me of a Zoolander 511 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,480 with is this a school for ants? Because the press box is so far 512 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,440 up, you're going to be looking down and like who who is, is 513 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,920 that Mendoza like, oh, no, that's a wide receiver. 514 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,160 It is if you've not been up in the Memorial Stadium press box. 515 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,280 It is, It's it's up there, man. It's not a great view. 516 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,360 Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty wild. 517 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:03,920 But you know, it's one of those where I think it's good to have 518 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,680 multiple perspectives, you know, watching the game and it's it's 519 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,280 the closest you get to coaches film without actually watching 520 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,760 coaches film is how I look at it. 521 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:12,960 So. Totally true. 522 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,440 And I will just say for the spring game, you, you, I heard 523 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,480 you listen to the end of that. It's so awesome to be excited 524 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,960 about a spring game at IU football. 525 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,240 I mean, this is one of the few times I can remember having this 526 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,600 and we haven't had a spring game for years. 527 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,120 But just the the excitement that I feel talking to people, it's 528 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,040 like, wow, I actually kind of want to watch the spring game. 529 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,360 I can't remember a time I've been I've been like that. 530 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,560 See, we're just gradually changing hearts and minds here. 531 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,800 I think that's important. So I'm glad we've gotten you on 532 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,000 the bandwagon. It's great. 533 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,240 So I'm there, but we we're going to chat some basketball. 534 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,120 Obviously, big news yesterday, which we covered on the 535 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:51,840 Emergency Pod with Mike Weemuth and Bob Motz. 536 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,000 Lamar Wilkerson from Sam Houston State has announced he's coming 537 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,440 to IU 65 shooting guard, one of the best shooters in the portal 538 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,720 and really, I think kind of put some people's minds at ease, 539 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,920 including yours. You had texted me earlier in the 540 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,800 day complaining and joking about how a lack of players on the 541 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,320 roster. Only what, 4 hours later to have 542 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,440 the announcement coming that Wilkerson would would be here. 543 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,640 I gave you credit for essentially. 544 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,800 You know, Jedi mind tricking the recruiting process into reality, 545 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,800 But we haven't had a chance to hear your thoughts on this yet, 546 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,800 so please take the floor. Yeah, no, my, my text was like, 547 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,240 I, I, but a lot of caveats, like I'm not freaking out. 548 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,080 I'm not, I'm scared. But like, it would be nice to 549 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,720 get some players on the roster. I was thinking more about it and 550 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,720 I listened to the, the, the emergency pod, you know, I, I 551 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,440 think I'll speak for those. And again, I was not freaking 552 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,480 out, but for for those who have been concerned, I, I think it 553 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,880 does come from a place where we've had eight years and then a 554 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,960 hyper amount of four years where, you know, up to this 555 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,640 point, we've had no real information about recruiting 556 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,680 coming out with this groups thus far. 557 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,640 And we have up, you know what, 4 players on the roster as of 558 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,040 yesterday. I think we have 5 now. 559 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,640 But you know, there there's a long history of eight years of 560 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:15,920 not a lot of recruiting success and then four years of a lot of 561 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,960 stories about, hey, this guy's not recruiting or this guy, this 562 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,080 coach doesn't know the name or this coach is on vacation during 563 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,120 recruiting time. And so to then suddenly just be 564 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:28,040 told, hey, have faith in the process, it's going to be fine 565 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,760 and then have no news. You know, eight years tells me 566 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,120 like I'm a little bit concerned when I don't hear anything 567 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:38,320 because the the previous regimes have been nothing's happening 568 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,840 and nothing happening meant nothing was really happening. 569 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,680 In this case, it's really nice to know that nothing is 570 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,480 happening, but actually a lot of things are happening like work 571 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,200 is being done when I'm going to sleep. 572 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,920 I know that my IU basketball coach is still working and 573 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,960 getting on planes to go visit recruits and doing the things 574 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,120 that a functional basketball coach should be doing. 575 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,520 So all I say is I think people have the right to be a little 576 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,200 concerned as days kept on ticking and nothing was 577 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,760 happening. I understand it's, it's a new 578 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,520 regime. We know that. 579 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,600 But it's like 8 years of, you know, stories like that. 580 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,600 I think we're we're, people have been in that spot. 581 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,400 Yeah. I mean, we talked about this a 582 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,480 bit on the podcast yesterday. And one of the things that if 583 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,640 you've been following closely the goings on around the 584 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,920 program, most of the leaks, pretty much all of the leaks are 585 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,160 gone. And, and that it was a 586 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,800 purposeful choice, it appears by the athletic department to reset 587 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,920 the relationship between the basketball program and the 588 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,600 media, the basketball program and the fan base. 589 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,040 Because this was I, I believe this when I said it yesterday, I 590 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,840 believe it today. I mean, I think those things 591 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,640 really hurt the perception of IU basketball. 592 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,480 The fact that you'd hear about recruits four or five days 593 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,400 before they got here and you'd hear about this guy didn't do 594 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,800 this or this guy didn't do that, or you'd hear about what we 595 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,640 could have offered Aaron Henry, but we got Demizi Anderson 596 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,040 instead because he was, I mean, it's stuff like that where it's 597 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,040 I, I, I think a lot of the information that IU fans online, 598 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,440 IU fans have gotten used to was not information that should have 599 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,120 been provided, but it was information that was being 600 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,480 leaked. And so it is refreshing to me at 601 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,960 least, that IU seems to have cinched that up now. 602 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,000 I certainly can understand the perspective that some folks have 603 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,360 in the fan base about, well, gosh, if we're not hearing 604 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,680 anything, nothing must be happening, why aren't they doing 605 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,960 XY and Z? And I do think that the 606 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:43,440 Wilkerson commitment gives a lot of cover for the idea that 607 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,480 people were starting to form, which was that, well, we're not 608 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,640 going to have a roster or we're going to striking out left and 609 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,960 right. You know, I've tried to explain 610 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,040 this on the podcast. We've talked about it a little 611 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,760 bit. The last show that we did. 612 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,520 These things are neither linear nor do they happen all at once. 613 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,320 And most of the pressure early on to sign deals was based upon 614 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,400 the the, the the house settlement and whether that was 615 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,640 going to go into effect. It hasn't, it's not going to in 616 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,040 the next couple of weeks either. So that extended everybody's 617 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,880 timeline, but it's also one of those where you do, I think have 618 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,920 to have some evidence in terms of players signing and like this 619 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,000 is going to be the roster before people really start to get 620 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,080 comfortable with things. So I understand the skepticism, 621 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,040 but I do think, again, like my my recommendation to fans, if 622 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,040 they're feeling as you were feeling, is you can't carry the 623 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,960 same level of skepticism and cynicism into the new regime 624 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,600 that dominated the old. And I know that's easier said 625 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,200 than done, but you really do have to almost like be like, 626 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,640 well, we're going to, we're starting fresh. 627 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,240 And I have to assume that the coaches know what they're doing 628 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,360 until I see incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. 629 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,720 And. Certainly, I don't think we're 630 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,360 anywhere close to that. No, I agree. 631 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,080 And I personally wasn't feeling that way. 632 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,920 I was kind of speaking for those people and kind of joking about 633 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:01,960 it. But I will say that this signing 634 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,200 it, it does put my mind that he's like, all right, if we 635 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,560 don't hear anything for another week, I, I now know that we have 636 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,280 a real grinder there. And, and we've seen it by, you 637 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,480 know, you, you mentioned this, the the field of 68 interview. 638 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,640 The thing that that stood out to me was the quote of, you know, 639 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,880 oh, Devries flew back out to see me again to kind of basically 640 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,640 close the commitment, which was like, wow, I don't think. 641 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,680 And I guess that was my point. Like, I don't feel like that's 642 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,520 been done in eight years. Well and so well, hold on, let 643 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,320 me. I can't believe I'm going to do 644 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,600 this, but I, I will say clearly that him saying that was, as I 645 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,440 think I described it was catnip to IU fans yesterday. 646 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,560 I don't think that you can assume that that never happened. 647 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,880 And I think part of the problem, and again, this goes back to the 648 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:51,400 leaks thing is the there was there were clearly some mistakes 649 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,600 made. There were clearly some, some 650 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,200 poor judgement in terms of, of things that were done. 651 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,360 I don't think we can assume that nothing was ever done because 652 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,600 clearly Indiana was still bringing in talented players. 653 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,360 They were still doing the, you know, whether it was Archie 654 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,720 Miller or whether it was Mike Woodson. 655 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,080 It's more like either the system didn't work or the core 656 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,840 philosophy behind which the program was was designed around 657 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,280 was just inadequate to the current environment of college 658 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,680 basketball. So I guess that's the one thing 659 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,840 I would say it's like, I think it's easy. 660 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,400 And I've, I've, I've been as guilty of it as anyone. 661 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,880 It's easy to be like, well, now things aren't great. 662 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,120 And it's kind of like that scene from Hoosiers, you know, where 663 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,520 Jimmy Chitwood walks in to the church. 664 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,760 You know, it says, you know, I think it's time for me to start 665 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,320 playing basketball. And, you know, George is up 666 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,640 there saying, I told you as soon as he got rid of him, pointing 667 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,360 at Norman Dale. And then, of course, the next 668 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,280 thing, next line happens. You're like, oh, there's always 669 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,920 more than meets the eye on these things. 670 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:49,320 But regardless of how broadly applicable the arguments were 671 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,040 that Woodson wasn't recruiting with vigor or, or that Archie 672 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,560 Miller was making the wrong decisions and certain things or, 673 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,160 or, you know, or what not, just showing Darren Devries being 674 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,400 able to to have that happen and having the player come out and 675 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,360 say that as being a major factor is, is such a nice change of 676 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,080 pace. And it does feel like there's a 677 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,440 little bit of of healing happening already with IU fans 678 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,080 if they've seen that aspect of this story. 679 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,520 The other thing that I that that's been calming to me 680 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,040 through this is and, and part of it just has to be, you have to 681 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,199 have faith in the new regime. And it's just, you know, you do 682 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,120 like if you're a fan, you can't immediately be like, all right, 683 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,320 well, we haven't gotten recruits like this guy sucks. 684 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,760 You have to have faith and it doesn't always work out like 685 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,400 Signetti, but you have to have faith in it. 686 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:38,239 Will, you know, But you, it does feel like, you know, Devries is 687 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,440 putting together A-Team and you mentioned like, you know, 688 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,280 shopping at Whole Foods on the last pod, I think was a really 689 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,880 good analogy. I, I, you know, that feels like 690 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,679 a very good way. And it feels like that's going 691 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,440 to take some time and like you're, you're being very 692 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,159 selective of who you're picking. Whereas, you know, the last two 693 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,880 years under Woodson, it just, it did feel like, Hey, let's just 694 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,960 who's the biggest names, who's the biggest bag we can throw 695 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:00,880 out? Like, let's go get that. 696 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,880 You felt that way. I felt that way a lot under 697 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,800 Crean. When it's like, Hey, the top 20 698 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,320 recruits we've offered all of them. 699 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,200 It's like, are you think they are they all good fits for our 700 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,400 system? Like this can't be the way that 701 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,040 it works. And it does feel like it's the. 702 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,480 Reason being, very selective girls in my high school class 703 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,200 out on a date. Yeah, it's, it's like the hey, 704 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,320 you know, I mean that and that guy normally is kind of 705 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,520 successful. That's not how you build a 706 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,200 basketball team. Just hey, there's everybody who 707 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,800 said yes, welcome guys. What are we going to play today? 708 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,280 So I, I do think that, you know, there's a it does feel like he's 709 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,960 being selective and I do have faith that he's building the 710 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,840 team that's going to be there. So I'm I'm excited. 711 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,240 I also, you know, I'm hitting on some of the things you guys 712 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,640 talked about, but I do think the other piece that I absolutely 713 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,880 love here is you got this guy from Kentucky, you know, and 714 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,280 it's somebody that Kentucky was actively recruiting. 715 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,760 It wasn't just a Kentucky throughout one of, you know, 12. 716 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,640 Like it's like they took that kid to the Preakness. 717 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,240 Kentucky fans were all pissed because like, we, we were going 718 00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:59,240 for this and I was talking to somebody today. 719 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:06,120 Not the Preakness. If they flew him to Baltimore, 720 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,320 no wonder he committed to Indiana. 721 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,880 Fairpoint in a horse race. But the thing that I was talking 722 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,440 to some friends about today that kind of it's like, Oh yeah, and 723 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,760 and we're playing Kentucky this year. 724 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,760 Like this is great. Like let's get it going. 725 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,520 Like this is a great little poll from Kentucky as well that I 726 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,720 absolutely love. And it's like now we're going to 727 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,640 play them. We got some hatred, like let's 728 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:27,840 go. I mean, we'll probably still 729 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,200 lose and rough, but who knows. Well, they just set the date for 730 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,600 that. They didn't know if you saw it, 731 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,320 but they they originally scheduled the date for the Rupp, 732 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,320 the Indiana game and Rupp for the 20th of December, which is 733 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,120 going to be the first. They moved it. 734 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,840 Now it's the 13th of December, which is great because after 735 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,400 Indiana wins the Big 10 title in football up in Lucas Oil on 736 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,440 December 6th, the same day they're playing Louisville at 737 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,520 game bridge. Then the next week they can go 738 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,800 and beat Kentucky and Rupp prior to their first round game. 739 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,760 Actually, no, they won't even have a first round game in the 740 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,480 College Playoffs because they'll have a bye. 741 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,920 So actually we'll have a two week break after that Kentucky 742 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,400 game to get ready for that that next College Football Playoff 743 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,480 game. So am I. 744 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,640 Am I handing off the fever dream torch to you? 745 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:19,320 Is this Peyland's? Fever dream as as as as one of 746 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,440 my close friends would note I'm I'm big into manifesting at this 747 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,440 point, we're going to we're just manifesting all of this 748 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,080 happening, you know right in a row so that that would all be 749 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,920 all yes, I will take all of it here we go yes. 750 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,120 Give that to me in a syringe. No, this, you know, I, I will go 751 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,800 back to this. Does it? 752 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,200 It's kind of that idea of like now I, I do know that the, the 753 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,720 coaches are, and I always believed they were working, but 754 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:49,720 it's like now you're starting to see some of the results and it, 755 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:51,720 it's going to take some time and you know, they're going to pick 756 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,880 and choose. But I, I like the team that it 757 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,280 looks like Devries is building right now. 758 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,720 You know, you, you guys mentioned how this was, you 759 00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:02,360 know, all the schools that this got you, all this other schools 760 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,560 going for this guy was, was SEC schools. 761 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,000 And it is interesting, you know, you talked about that, you kind 762 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,360 of talked about around this in a couple other areas. 763 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,880 And we see it with, you know, how dominant the SEC has been 764 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,960 and how unlike Big 10 teams, the SEC teams look, you still look 765 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,320 around the Big 10 and like, Purdue's going to be good, but 766 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,360 they're going to be a traditional Purdue team. 767 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,600 You know, Michigan State is going to be good. 768 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,720 They're going to be traditional. You know, there there's 769 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,240 something cool about like, hey, let's let's go get all the SEC 770 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,760 guys like, let's do what Auburn's doing and let's do it 771 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,160 here because it doesn't seem like a lot of other Big 10 teams 772 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,240 are either trying or have the resources to replicate it. 773 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:41,240 So, you know, this is something you taught me years ago. 774 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,920 It was in the Korean recruiting, you know, we would get guys and 775 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,920 you're always like, look who we're going up against because 776 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,800 that that's more of a barometer than what their ranking is or 777 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,640 what they you know, how many stars they were. 778 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,480 It's like, oh, guy's a four-star, but like he was being 779 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,000 recruited by Belmont. But the something doesn't jive 780 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,920 here. You know, this is a guy who was, 781 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,320 you know, Wilkerson was recruited by Kentucky, Auburn, 782 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,120 and those are the three and us Ole Miss. 783 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,400 Thank you. Thank you, Ole Miss Ole Miss, 784 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,760 but all SEC schools. Well, and it's funny 'cause my 785 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,080 the original process of evaluating the offers as the 786 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,760 barometer of the player actually came from watching IU football 787 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,320 for so many years. When you're, you know, you're, 788 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,120 you're seeing like IU. Yeah, they're not recruiting the 789 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,480 same athletes that Michigan and Ohio State are recruiting, but 790 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,120 they're also not recruiting the same athletes that Illinois and 791 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,320 Michigan State are. They're recruiting against Akron 792 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,080 or they're recruiting against Toledo or or Western Michigan or 793 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,040 Miami of Ohio. And you're just like losing, by 794 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,200 the way. And, and yeah, in many cases 795 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,280 losing. And you're just kind of like, 796 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:43,480 there's something not right here. 797 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,440 And so, yeah, with basketball, I mean, look, we've talked a lot 798 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,560 over the course of the history of this podcast about the 799 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,080 fundamental issues that Big 10 teams have had because they have 800 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,360 not been attracting the types of athletes that really make 801 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,360 differences at the. You know, the in NCAA Tournament 802 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,240 time, in many cases, because you're having to recruit a 803 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,200 different type of player to succeed in the Big 10. 804 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,800 And to some degree, you almost have to break that cycle of 805 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,480 dependency and say we are going to run a system that is focused 806 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,640 around something other than power and brute force, and we 807 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,320 have to focus it on something that's based more on athleticism 808 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,480 and skill. Well, then you got to go out and 809 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,600 try to get those players. Yeah. 810 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,000 And we'll see if it works out. But as we saw with Michigan, you 811 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,360 know, Michigan was able to be a successful program in the Big 10 812 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,320 under John Beeline while running a a diametrically opposite 813 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,320 system for what most of the teams in the conference did, one 814 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,880 that was predicated on offense and predicated on shooting. 815 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,560 And yeah, they didn't always win the Big 10 title, but they made 816 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,400 two national championship games. So I do think that there is 817 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,760 value in that. And I think we are probably due 818 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,720 at some point for a paradigm shift in the conference. 819 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:54,400 And you can't help but look at the SEC and say they have some 820 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,600 top like top, they are top loaded as a conference, but they 821 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,200 have a lot of athletic skill throughout the course of that 822 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,640 conference. That's what you really have to 823 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,240 try to do. So yeah, I'm with you on that 824 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,160 100%. And I think, you know, it is yet 825 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,560 to be determined whether you can make a roster up almost entirely 826 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,400 of players that are coming in from 2nd and 3rd tier 827 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,120 conferences. So that's where the I could see 828 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,520 a little bit of trepidation or a little bit of concern if you 829 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,480 were a fan and you're like, I'm not going to get too excited 830 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,160 about this. I want to wait because it's 831 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,400 like, well, OK, it's a guy from Sam Houston State. 832 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,440 It's a guy from Davidson, you know, hypothetically, a guy from 833 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,080 Troy, a guy from Idaho, a guy from North Florida. 834 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,960 Like why aren't we pulling players in from power conference 835 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,160 teams? You know, why aren't you going 836 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,440 all after the, the guy from LSU or the guy from Maryland? 837 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,760 And we talked about this a little bit on the emergency pod 838 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,920 yesterday. Like some of it is budget where 839 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,680 even if you got a ton of money, you, you've got to be judicious 840 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,280 with how you spend it because you want to get good depth 841 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,960 players. You know, there's an interesting 842 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,880 analysis that I will not read directly off of because it came 843 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,640 from a, a, a subscription site. But the summation of a player, 844 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,480 for instance, that just got projected to go to IU. 845 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,360 This guy, the guy from North Florida who was visiting today 846 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,840 is, is now our projection to go to you will wait until it's 847 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,920 official before we go in depth on him. 848 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,600 But the idea is like this isn't an elite player, but it's a good 849 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,000 player. And that's what Indiana needs. 850 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:32,200 They need good players like 1. Like you want to have one or two 851 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,560 guys who you would classify as a lead who or who can grow into 852 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,920 that elite role. But you where Indiana has often 853 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,840 struggled is that they haven't had even players that would 854 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:47,880 classify as good in spots 789 or even 6789, sometimes even into 855 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,240 the starting line up to some degree. 856 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,520 And so it's a different method of roster construction. 857 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,480 And I think it's got as good of a chance as any, but you're 858 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,040 still kind of adding to nothing. The nothing will start to build 859 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,880 into something and then we'll see what we've got. 860 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,680 But it is an interesting thing to kind of watch the process of 861 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,280 go through because it is very different and hard to get your 862 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,960 head wrapped around as an IU fan. 863 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,440 Because you're referencing essentially a blank roster page 864 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,360 to start with. And you can't really see how all 865 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,360 the pieces will fit together. Nor have you seen the system 866 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,400 that they're being plugged into being run at Indiana in any 867 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,320 recent memory. No, it's all sand. 868 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,640 You're you're you're building question marks on question 869 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:25,200 marks. The things. 870 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,480 The other thing that I've been thinking about, you've talked a 871 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,240 lot about, you know, resource allocation or the budget. 872 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,400 But one other way to that I was thinking about this to look at 873 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:38,640 this is there is resource allocation based on the team. 874 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,880 You know, there's let's just pick a number. 875 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,000 Let's say IU has 10 million even number $10 million to spend on 876 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,040 NIL this season. You can't give 10 million to one 877 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,120 player and then have nothing for everybody else. 878 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,160 You know that you have to have kind of a salary cap like that. 879 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,280 Again, nobody wants to talk like not professional, but it is the 880 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,520 the other piece that I will say, and I'm being kind of very 881 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,000 overarching on this, if you'll forgive me for not having a 882 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,880 perfect analogy, but you know, the, the Pacers have to do the 883 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,920 same thing that the difference is they can agree to pay 884 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,520 Halliburton 35,000,000 a year because they know they're going 885 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,200 to make 140 million from TV revenue every year the next 5 or 886 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,800 6 years. Like there is a steady stream of 887 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,200 money coming in. The other piece of this that is 888 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,800 also kind of sand and a question mark is the money that IU has to 889 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,040 spend year over year. It's not like it's based on a 890 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,040 fine an amount, it's a finite number that can change in that. 891 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,280 And what I mean by this is the last two years, again, this is 892 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,680 kind of a generalization, but the last two years Indiana kind 893 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,480 of went after big name, big target spends. 894 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,240 You'll go get Khalil Ware, don't make the tournament. 895 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,320 You pay him, you know, probably a hefty sum, you go get Omar 896 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,160 Barlow, don't make the tournament. 897 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,560 At some point you can't keep going to that same donor, like, 898 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,400 hey, I need another $5,000,000 to go get a player. 899 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,280 At some point they're going to say, hey, you got to do 900 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,800 something different or, you know, or that donors like I'm 901 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,320 done. You go to another donor, like at 902 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,280 some point you run out of donors. 903 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,400 Like the NBA isn't going to run out of money. 904 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,400 Like they're going to continue to get TV contracts. 905 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,360 They know for the next 10 years they're going to fund. 906 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,160 And so I do think a change of Strat. 907 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,920 So I do think there's also resource allocation where IU has 908 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,040 to be understanding that you can't keep pissing or taking 909 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,760 donors money and having no results. 910 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,040 And so the idea of instead of maybe going after one or two 911 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,960 huge names, like huge splashes in the portal, let's build a lot 912 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,560 of smaller players and maybe this will work better. 913 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,120 You know, that could also keep the the war chest going because 914 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,240 I think that's another piece of the allocation of resources is 915 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:41,280 that it's not just an unlimited supply of money that comes in. 916 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,400 At some point donors are going to say, I'm kind of tired of 917 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,440 this. Like I, I don't want to keep 918 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,600 doing, you know, big one time spends for players. 919 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,360 So I both agree with your premise and disagree a little 920 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,200 bit. I, I think you're right. 921 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,520 I mean, I think just constantly taking swings at big players or 922 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,880 trying to get the number one or #2 player in the portal. 923 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,200 I I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with getting 924 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,640 the number one or #2 player in the portal, just like there's 925 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,320 nothing inherently wrong with getting like a top five recruit, 926 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,240 our top 10 recruit, Romeo Lankford, for instance. 927 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:20,320 But if you don't have a system in place that allows you to 928 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,720 maximize the talents of that player in the context of the 929 00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:28,080 accomplishments of the team, then it's wasted money to some 930 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,560 degree. And that's where I think donors 931 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,000 get upset. I think it's why Mike Woodson's 932 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,600 no longer the head coach here. Just same as same with Archie 933 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,840 Miller, where it's like it, I mean Archie Miller in a 934 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,160 three-year span, he got Romeo Langford, who I forget what his 935 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,160 ranking was, but he was I think a top 15, top 10 recruit and he 936 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,160 got Trace Jackson Davis, who while not ranked quite as high, 937 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,440 was a generation of player with Indiana, made the tournament 0 938 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,360 times and got fired. Not because he got those guys, 939 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,480 but because he a, didn't surround them with the right 940 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,760 personnel and B, didn't have a system that they worked in, 941 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,960 especially offensively. Mike Woodson basically had a 942 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,720 different version of the same problem where he he, he, you 943 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,560 know, he did a lot to maximize what Trace Jackson Davis could 944 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,360 do on the floor. He got Khalil Ware, he got Omar 945 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,240 Barlow, he got Miles Rice, who was a pretty hot commodity in 946 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:23,920 the portal last year. It didn't matter, you know, like 947 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,200 the, the, those, those signings were empty because as we and I 948 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,960 think your NBA analogy kind of works here in a different way 949 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,400 than you intended. The number of NBA teams who have 950 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,520 gone out and splashed the cash on a big free agent signing and 951 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,720 then put nothing around them and have gotten locked into horrific 952 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:45,640 contracts. This is the Bradley Beal 953 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,520 phenomenon, you know, and we've seen it dozens of times in the 954 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,600 NBA over the last 20 years. You know, Mike Woodson, I think 955 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,360 his philosophy was I need a star in the post because that's where 956 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,560 my offense is predicated around. That didn't work in college 957 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,800 because that's not how the college game works at the NBA 958 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,600 level. It's like, well, we need a star. 959 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,280 And half the time the star is needed, not necessarily even 960 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,240 just for their play, but we got to sell jerseys. 961 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:10,640 We got to get, we got to sell tickets. 962 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:11,960 We got to get people in the arena. 963 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,760 It's what makes the Luka Doncic trade such a bizarreity. 964 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,480 I like that word. A bizarre oddity is that is that 965 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,040 combining those two, I. Like that minting vocabulary 966 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:30,960 here on if you don't have a coherent vision and philosophy 967 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,160 as an organization, it doesn't matter how much money you spend, 968 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,120 your roster construction is going to suck. 969 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,120 I mean, this was the problem with the Pacers, you know, post 970 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,200 what, 2008, you know, for about 3 years until they were like, 971 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,760 oh, I know what we're going to do. 972 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,800 We're going to settle on this collection of players and that's 973 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,600 going to put us in contention to be, you know, maybe going to the 974 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,160 NBA Finals. And they were in contention. 975 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,480 They just had very bad timing luck. 976 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,600 But it doesn't mean the philosophy itself was wrong. 977 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,680 Whereas there's plenty of teams I could point to, they didn't 978 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,680 build intelligently like the New York Knicks for many years and 979 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,400 they paid the price over and over again and seemingly never 980 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,920 learned their lesson. And that's where. 981 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,960 And Mike Woodson. Well, but he wasn't picking the 982 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,000 players. I know, I know I'm just but, but 983 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,560 if it is, that is an interesting tie. 984 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,040 So I I look at it from the perspective of the college 985 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,240 level. It is interesting because the 986 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:29,160 the other complication is that the in the pros, there are 987 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,200 limits on what you can spend on players, There are limits on how 988 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,320 much you can spend. You can go over those if you 989 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,840 really want to get into the luxury tax. 990 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,080 They don't really exist at the college game level. 991 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,560 Your limitations are what are your resources coming from your 992 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,560 donors? What, what is your revenue share 993 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,280 allocation going to be with your athletic department? 994 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:52,600 And then from there, how good is your talent evaluation? 995 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,480 How good is your your system that you're plugging players 996 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,200 into and what is the end goal with everything? 997 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,920 And this is where I think the roster construction for this IU 998 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,560 roster for next year is going to be fascinating because they're 999 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,560 going after right now like, you know, Wilkerson's going to have 1000 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,160 one year left, right? They're. 1001 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,840 Debris, seniors, they're going. After Debris is going to have 1002 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,520 one year left, you know, if Luke Goody comes back, he'll have one 1003 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,800 year left. And look, that's that's a 1004 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,520 choice. Now, you could try to get some 1005 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,480 younger players in the portal. But I think the idea here is 1006 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:33,640 kind of twofold. And again, I could be wrong. 1007 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,480 This is just me trying to evaluate from a distance since 1008 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,000 I'm clearly not in the meetings. I was not on the plane with 1009 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,040 Darren Devries going to visit Lamar Wilkerson. 1010 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:49,240 But I look at it and I say, OK, Indiana clearly needs to have 1011 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,560 some initial success. And there's a couple of reasons 1012 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,440 for that. A, they need to win the fans 1013 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,040 back. If you were in Assembly Hall the 1014 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,840 last couple of years, you recognized a real growing 1015 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,800 problem that has not really been publicly identified, which is 1016 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,720 that the connection between the program and the and especially 1017 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:12,840 the students. But I think a lot of younger 1018 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,720 fans, fans under the age of 45, it's not there. 1019 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,520 It it like it's, it's just not there. 1020 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,560 And you can look at the empty seats in the balcony. 1021 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,720 You can look at the the the rampant booing in the Illinois 1022 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:26,400 game. You can look at the kind of 1023 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,280 unsettled nature of some of the home games down the stretch, 1024 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,040 even games that Indiana won. And you can say to yourself, 1025 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,960 there has to be some success, something for people to latch 1026 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,000 onto. And you're going to have a 1027 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,440 better shot at that if you've got a more veteran team, 1028 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,440 especially a team of hungry guys who are coming together in a 1029 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,720 system that's going to put them in a position where they can be 1030 00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,280 maximally successful. So I think part of it, but I 1031 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,160 also think because of the portal, you have to make 1032 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,280 yourself an attractive landing spot. 1033 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,520 The fact that Debris with with no tape of him in Indiana and 1034 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,200 one year at West Virginia that did not result in a tournament 1035 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,720 bid was able to come in and convince the second best shooter 1036 00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,360 hypothetically in the portal from three to come to Indiana. 1037 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,440 As opposed to going to Kentucky, who you know was a top 15 team 1038 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,240 for part of the year or going to Auburn who was in the final 1039 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:17,120 Four. Instead, they're coming to 1040 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,080 Indiana. Like that to me says, all right, 1041 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,320 there's already a good sales pitch here. 1042 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,080 There's already a pitch that is appealing to to players like 1043 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,160 that, but that's only going to last for so long. 1044 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,280 You're going to have to show results in this first year to 1045 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,560 convince the next wave of players that you're bringing in, 1046 00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,520 whether that's recruits from high school or whether that's 1047 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,760 portal players. That Indiana is a place you want 1048 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,680 to go not just because of NIL, but because you can achieve your 1049 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,680 goals as a basketball player. Whether that is I want to go to 1050 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,920 the pros, whether that's I want to lead A-Team to the Final 1051 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,280 Four. That's why I think there's this 1052 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,240 bias towards older players. And it's also like, unless 1053 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,040 you've got a dynamite player who you're going to have for a 1054 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,000 couple years, what's the point in bringing a developmental 1055 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,280 piece because you might develop them for somebody else. 1056 00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:03,560 Yeah, no, I agree. What I also think part of the 1057 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,240 portal is just most of the guys like Wilkerson played like JUCO, 1058 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,120 JUCO and then Sam Houston, like a lot of guys in the portal have 1059 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,160 that story where they've they've gone up one or two levels. 1060 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,240 You just you do that, you're going to be a junior or senior. 1061 00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:18,760 There's not a lot of sophomores in the portal that are that are 1062 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,920 of note. I guess Khalil Ware was No, I I 1063 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,760 agree with all of that. And I think this also, you know, 1064 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,840 this I I think it's smart. I mean, obviously early success 1065 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,440 isn't bad. Like no, no coaches like, you 1066 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,840 know what, I doubt arts like we're going to lose the Indiana 1067 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,040 State, like that'll show them, that'll show who's boss. 1068 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,680 You know, I think all coaches are trying to do that. 1069 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,240 But I do think, you know, that this is it's a smart approach. 1070 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,680 I agree with you. It also gives you time to kind 1071 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,920 of build your ground game in the recruiting and say, all right, 1072 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,480 now we can build, you know, build that slight pipeline in 1073 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,200 there. I would also throw this out 1074 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,280 there. I was kind of thinking as you 1075 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,200 were talking about this and forgive me if I'm just 1076 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:58,400 completely missing on somebody, but, you know, different eras 1077 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,520 with Archie and Woodson, cuz we're just in a different era 1078 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,440 now. I, I don't remember Woodson or 1079 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:09,760 Archie having a really killer recruiting offseason before 1080 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,520 their first season. Now I know it's totally 1081 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,040 different. Like neither of them had the 1082 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,600 portal. So it's a different scenario. 1083 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,840 But I, you know, we're, we're talking about, you know, Archie 1084 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,720 getting Romeo and then Trace. That was after he had success on 1085 00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:24,680 the court like you're talking about, you know, Woodson, he did 1086 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,880 his work in the portal. The portal wasn't there his 1087 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,040 first year. I'm aware of that. 1088 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,160 But his his work was done, you know, with Khalil Ware and Balo 1089 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,320 after he had tape to show like, hey, I'm a post guy, I'm going 1090 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,400 to do this in the post. It's just more to highlight your 1091 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,800 point. There's no tape of debris in 1092 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,880 Indiana and he's still having this success. 1093 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:42,960 We haven't seen that. You know what the other two 1094 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,880 coaches had it based on the tape that they had. 1095 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,320 Again, it's not a great comp because neither Woodson or 1096 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,400 Archie had this kind of portal opening. 1097 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,440 You know, the first year they started, but just making note of 1098 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,240 that. I don't know if I totally agree 1099 00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,160 in as much as like so you think about like when Archie came in, 1100 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:05,120 there was a class that was that was brought in there, the 2017 1101 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,120 class, which was Race Thompson, Justin Smith, Clifton Moore and 1102 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,840 Al Durham. And, and that there had to be 1103 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,080 some, I believe, you know, that was that was, I always look at 1104 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,520 the first two classes as something worth indicating or, 1105 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,000 you know, like kind of reading into. 1106 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:25,680 And I think people forget like the the first full class that I 1107 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,600 would attribute as far as like Archie Miller being at IU, that 1108 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,640 class according to the recruiting rankings, had the, 1109 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,360 you know, I had five players in the top 150. 1110 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:41,440 It had Romeo Lankford, Jerome Hunter, Demise Anderson, Rob 1111 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,760 Phenisee and Jake Forrester. And that was a group that people 1112 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,200 were pretty excited about. And all I'm saying is that that 1113 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,280 there was tape of Archie coaching at IU at that point 1114 00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,600 when he signed Romeo. OK, I'll give you that. 1115 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:56,800 It it. But yeah, you're right. 1116 00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,600 The paradigm has changed quite a bit, You know, and and I think 1117 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,240 ultimately it's almost and that was but I think it's worth 1118 00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:04,120 noting. It's like a different sport to 1119 00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,120 some degree from that perspective. 1120 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:11,880 Like how, how do we interpret the the reality of the situation 1121 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,760 within the confines of like, well, we're, you know, not only 1122 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,120 are we not focused as much on high school recruiting as the 1123 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,960 end all be all like the only place to be, but in some cases, 1124 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,680 especially like this. If if we were, if we were truly 1125 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:31,400 looking at 2017 in 2025, you'd be starting with a brand new 1126 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,280 roster. This would almost be 2008, 2009. 1127 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,160 First year again, I'm just a bunch of. 1128 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,520 Freshmen, yeah. So it's, it's a really 1129 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,760 interesting thing and, and look, you don't, again, you don't know 1130 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,960 how it's going to play out because it, it could not work. 1131 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,120 It could work really well. You know, what I told people at 1132 00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,280 the end of the podcast yesterday was if you're skeptical, I get 1133 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,040 it. But maybe don't automatically 1134 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,200 leap to skepticism as the primary method by which you're 1135 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,120 going to interpret all of this. Maybe instead think about it 1136 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,880 from the perspective of, hey, I'm I'm excited that the fact 1137 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,360 that Indiana's starting to pull in players, I can start to see 1138 00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,680 if I look at the roster, how all these pieces might fit together. 1139 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,480 If I go back and watch tape of what I know Devries's offense 1140 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,520 and defensive done at his previous two stops, I can kind 1141 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,800 of get a sense of what it might look like in Indiana uniform. 1142 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,280 Like, lean into those things. As much as we'd like to look at 1143 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,720 and react to and live within the emotional and mental confines of 1144 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:34,880 IU basketball over the last 8 to 9 seasons, the reality is, and 1145 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,880 this goes back to the leaks thing that we talked about when 1146 00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,320 you jumped on the podcast, a bunch has changed in this 1147 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,920 offseason. And I mean, you know, you've got 1148 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:44,800 a, you're going to have a brand new strength and conditioning 1149 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:45,720 coach. You're going to have a brand new 1150 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,800 trainer. You know, a guy who's been there 1151 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,640 for what, 45 years is no longer going to be there. 1152 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,920 You're, you've got brand new assistants, You got a brand new 1153 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,640 head coach. You've going to have like all of 1154 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,560 these changes that have taken place. 1155 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,800 This is essentially IU basketball molting and and re 1156 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,480 emerging with a new skin. And yes, you still got the the 1157 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,360 the red and white uniforms and you still got the candy stripes. 1158 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,320 But realistically speaking, it's a brand new program. 1159 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:18,000 And so I would just caution people about taking the pain and 1160 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:22,360 the frustration of the previous eight or nine years out on what 1161 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,320 you're seeing right now when it's clearly the beginning of a 1162 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,760 process as opposed to being the process. 1163 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,400 I agree that the positive way that I look at it is when you 1164 00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:36,480 look at football, you know, nobody right now is saying, I 1165 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,760 don't know about Signetti and the guys he's bringing in. 1166 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,440 Like, I mean, everyone's like you trust the process. 1167 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,880 Like there's nobody who's like, I don't know if Signetti knows. 1168 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,560 Did he get the right guys in the portal like his Mendoza, really 1169 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,640 the quarterback he wants? Like nobody's saying that 1170 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,840 Signetti has proved he has a system that works that we trust 1171 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,560 in the process. Does that mean we're going to 1172 00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,480 the College Football Playoff? I mean, in your favorite dream 1173 00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:56,840 now, Yes, we're we're doing that. 1174 00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:01,120 But on our our great weekend of IU, you know, triumphs, but you 1175 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,360 know, does that mean we're going to be when the title don't know, 1176 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,880 but I think we'll be on the right path doing that. 1177 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,320 The the positive thing that I look at is going back to Devries 1178 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,560 did all of this last year in West Virginia. 1179 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,880 And the question is, you know, how how will he do? 1180 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,320 You know, he did the same thing. He built a roster from literal 1181 00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,160 zero to 100, you know, a full roster. 1182 00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,920 He West Virginia was able to field the team like they they 1183 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,760 had enough players. They played in Atlantis like 1184 00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,200 they were fine. Devries has already done this 1185 00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,880 once. The question always is, how is 1186 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,680 he going to do when you give him more resources? 1187 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,880 And to me, it's like the question has kind of already 1188 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,240 been answered is like, well, he takes the IU jet and goes meets 1189 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,400 Wilkerson again and probably UPS the UPS, the NIL offer and he 1190 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,360 signs the player against Kentucky. 1191 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,560 And like, I'm I'm sure Devries is like, wow, I didn't have 1192 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,320 those things at West Virginia. Like when I when I asked for the 1193 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:58,120 jet, they were like, no, we ain't got no more money in 1194 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,400 mortgage. Like it's he's showing to me 1195 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,600 that he's doing more with the resources IU has and again, 1196 01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,640 trying to trusting and trusting in the process. 1197 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,400 Like the guy just did it in West Virginia. 1198 01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,840 He knows how to do it. He's showing me not going to 1199 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,440 show me anything. He's showing that he can use the 1200 01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,560 higher resources at a higher school to do what he just did. 1201 01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,920 Just do it at a better level. And I guess I would just put a 1202 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,480 slightly different spin on it and say it's less about the 1203 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:26,440 resources and it's more about the culture of college 1204 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:31,600 basketball as it has to be addressed by the head coach at a 1205 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,840 major program. And I think that, and again, not 1206 01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,760 just a Mike Woodson thing, also an Archie Miller thing, also a 1207 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,560 Tom Crean thing. On and off there, more on than 1208 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,920 off at the end. There are things you have to do 1209 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,520 in recruiting, in player development and player 1210 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,640 relationships. And I think Darren Devries looks 1211 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,280 like he's off to a really good start with that, better than 1212 01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,160 perhaps what we saw out of his predecessors. 1213 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:57,600 But it's early, so we'll wait and see what happens. 1214 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,120 Yeah, but I'm excited. It's, it's a good start. 1215 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,160 I'm glad Scott's excited folks. That's that's a key, key element 1216 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,280 as well. So anyway, all right, well, 1217 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,720 that'll wrap it up for us. We'll be back with more. 1218 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,840 If you are not planning on going to the spring game, go to the 1219 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,480 spring game. You know, and if you've not 1220 01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,840 driven from Indianapolis to Bloomington since the Interstate 1221 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,360 opened, it's it's really fast. Like my sister lives in 1222 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,280 Zionsville. I live on the southeast side of 1223 01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,360 Bloomington. It is an hour from my door to 1224 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,400 her door. So this honestly, this is like 1225 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,880 driving downtown, you know, for for a lot of people in terms of 1226 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,680 the traffic. So take advantage. 1227 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:37,520 And I've been saying that for a year now, like it's been great. 1228 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:38,880 It's been open the whole football season. 1229 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,520 It's fantastic. I was in Bloomington today. 1230 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,440 It was an hour. I bet you Caulfield 2024 it's 1231 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,800 like driving downtown. So anyway, just just yes, please 1232 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,440 come join us for the spring game and we'll we'll keep an eye out 1233 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,600 for you and try to say hi. Anyway for Scott, I'm Galen, 1234 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:55,120 this is Crimson cast. Thanks for joining us. 1235 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,120 Be sure to check out the entire roster of shows on the back home 1236 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,680 network and we'll be back maybe this weekend with some spring 1237 01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,720 game thoughts, maybe some more recruit signing. 1238 01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,920 Keep your eyes and ears open for the emergency pods as they 1239 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,200 emerge. We'll catch you folks. 1240 01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,320 As I said, on the flip side, stay never daunted. 1241 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,720 Bring back the bison. So everybody.