And good afternoon folks and welcome to another emergency
podcast on the back home network.
Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield and Tony Adronia joining you
here on a combined episode of Film Room and Crimson Cast.
We got assembly call, people may be joining us later, but we had
a bunch to talk about and we're like, what better time to do it
then in the middle of a little five week as Indiana signs 2 new
players to the men's basketball roster within the last 24 hours.
And it's been 3 new players actually since the last time we
did an emergency podcast. Scott, Tony, it's great to see
you both. Scott, let me start with you.
Great to see you in the middle of a Friday, obviously.
And you were worried a couple of weeks ago that this roster
wasn't going to have enough people on it, are you?
Are you feeling better now? I guess would be my question.
I was never worried. I just, I made a joke that we
had like you were terrified. What are you talking about?
Throwing things on me. No, no, I was.
I was not terrified. I just made the comment like
after a couple years of inept, you know, roster building,
having no one on the, you know, and are people getting their
work done. What I think is funny is I, I
think this all comes down to you, Galen, because what we need
is you being more busy because we texted earlier in the week
like, hey, should we do something like, no, I'm busy.
I'm like, oh, it makes sense. And then like, Nope, we got to
do 3 emergency pots. Like, so we need more on your
plate. We just need to give you more
things to do in your calendar and maybe we'll be signing more
people or even better people. More on my calendar is really a
frightening proposition. I got to say that let's let's
avoid that if at all possible. Tony you're drawing you back and
joining us once again Tony business appears to be pretty
good for Indiana basketball right now.
It's it's heartening and, and certainly we're going to get
into each of these individual players here in a little bit.
But you know, we talked a while back about the way that Darren
Devries and his staff, whoever they are at this point, are
trying to go about this. And as you would say in the
relationship business, it seems like Darren Devries has a type.
And man, he's finding his type right now it looks like, at
least from the statistics. He's hot.
He's on a roll. Yeah, he's he certainly has a
type. And, you know, it's, it's good
to see that Indiana certainly, you know, we'll, we'll get into
the types that we were talking about, But you know, Indiana is
building a roster right now that looks like it's ready to play
some modern basketball. And, and it's funny, you know,
the, the kind of gripes I've heard is like, where are the big
men? Like, you know, it's like you
have to. We're an abusive relationship
that we're trying to get out of. It's like we got to free
ourselves of the big man thing. Like it's fine.
We don't not we don't have to have a 7 footer.
It's OK. Or four of them, certainly, I
think. Yeah.
Next year at games, I'm just going to go to every game and
yell, throw it in the post, get in the post.
We need more post play just. It, it's crazy.
I mean, like, it really is like Indiana fans have been
conditioned to watch a style of basketball that like at this
point, folks are wondering like, you know, how how are they going
to compete without, you know, these 7 footers?
And it's like, I think they'll be just fine.
Yeah, facts, Scott, facts. But yeah, it's, it's an exciting
time, you know, getting 2 commitments back-to-back, one
seemingly kind of coming out of nowhere and Sam Alexis, you
know, didn't, didn't visit and and just kind of pops all the
sudden. I think Joe Tipton had the the
tip, no pun intended, but yeah. So it's, it's, it's been good
and you know, whenever there's good things happening, we have
these emergency podcasts. I get to talk to you guys.
So that's the the cherry on top. Well, somebody's advocating for
you to be head coach. I think, let I think what we
Tony, we've been talking about GMs. I'm just like, let's, let's
make Tony the GM. I've I would be totally fine
with that move. But before we talk about the
individual players and and Scott, maybe when we start with
you on this, but I want to hear from both of you.
What I am fat and you kind of mentioned this with the the the
the most recent addition, Tony. Like it is shocking how quiet
these recruitments have been. You know, we often times are
only finding out that a guy visited the day that it's
happening or maybe we find out afterwards.
And Scott, this has been perhaps the leakiest basketball program
in terms of news and stuff going on with the program.
It feels like for the longest time, it is jarring in some ways
how unleaky things have been with this program since Darren
Debris got the town. And from honestly, I know a lot
of people like we're so used to having information that we
shouldn't have about IU basketball.
I'm I love it like I love. It's almost like I'm getting
bought presents that I have know nothing about.
And and then they suddenly like, like, Hey, you've got a new
player. Whether or not these end up
being the right pieces per SE, it's refreshing that we don't
know everything that's going on with IU basketball.
Well, and I think that's where like the text you keep joking
about. But I think a lot of people did
feel that, you know, after so many years of, of just leaks and
hearing tons of rumors to, to hear nothing for the first
couple of weeks of the portal and then also have no signings.
It's like, well, this isn't good because I'm used to hearing a
lot of stuff and there's all this fire and like, so there's
no fire, there's no smoke, but but you know, you, you have
faith and it is all getting put together.
So no, it's, it's nice. And I, I keep joking.
It feels like my coaching staff is now working.
When I go to bed at night, they're, they're out doing
things. Things are being done.
I don't need to see it or hear it.
And then things just come. And I just want to highlight one
of the things Tony said. He's got a type like he really
does. It is.
And what's really cool is it's a type of the type.
And whether it works or not, like you said, who knows, but
that kind of 6367, you know, multiple 3 and D type shooter,
it's kind of cool because we just saw that type a lot in the
Final four in a lot of teams. And it is nice to see that our
coach has a type that does seem to be on other teams that is
working as well. More three than D.
Yeah, Yeah, it's very true. It is.
It is like 3 and the hit on the way out of the locker room, just
more than three and another three and another three maybe
some D later on. No, but Tony, I mean first your
thoughts about the the new almost wall that's around the IU
basketball program and how different it looks from what
we've seen in the past? I'm with you.
I really like it and I honestly, I think some of that is just
from like the new landscape, like the more it leaks of guys
visiting and you're in talks with them.
Other schools can then get that information, get involved up in
Illinois, all that, all that different stuff.
But no, it's great. I mean, last year it was like
mid February and I was already hearing Miles Rice and Cane and
Carlisle. We're coming to Indiana.
You know, there's there's been none of that this this year.
And and like you said, I think the other day it kind of got
leaked that Nick Dorn was on campus because somebody just
happened to see him in Devries out in the golf cart.
You know, they're like Devries is out with like some really big
dudes in a golf cart. Like anybody got any word on
this? So like, I love it.
You know, I think that, you know, as the saying goes, real
G's move in silence, like Adronia is the saying, right?
That's. Fine, my new name is Alan
Clavio. Can I just, I want to one other
piece of this too. The last two years, so much of
the noise has been around the money, you know, oh, like we're,
you know, it's $2,000,000 for this guy or, you know, Indiana's
got that. Like the rumors always seem to
be around money. I'm sure a lot of these guys,
all of them are getting some kind of nil deal.
But I think it's really refreshing that we're we're
seeing these signings. But at least for me, it's like
I'm not hearing all of the rumors about, oh, it's this
dollar amount, that dollar amount.
It it does seem to again, be more about, you know, these are
the guys that Devries wants to get on his team and these are
the right players, less about just us as Tony would like.
Just geez, throwing money around you.
It's it's, I find that very refreshing where it doesn't feel
like we're just going on a shopping spree.
Spending money and it's all about the money it it seems to
be more about the players again, knowing that there is nil behind
it right. So let's talk about these
players. Let's dive in so three players
since we last talked to you all directly about this and you know
the first one that we'll I think well, who do you want to start
with Tony? Give me a we've got three we've
got Doran, we've got Alexis, we've got Drake I think well,
let's save Alexis for last. We want to start with Doran.
Sure, let's do it. So give us give us the breakdown
on Nick Doran. Nick Doran, transfer guard from
Elon, 6 feet, 7 inches tall, two years of eligibility remaining.
Give us the breakdown on his game as far as you've seen it in
the film. I'm going to show some B roll
underneath you while you're talking.
Sure. Yeah, with Doran, kind of a lot
of these guys I want to caveat it with like some statistics are
almost worth throwing out the window with guys that are coming
from, let's say an Elon where they are high usage because
they're the best player and the best talent on their team, which
really isn't how they're going to be utilized at Indiana.
So with Dorn, I think he's more so being brought in to kind of
be that three and D guy that Scott talked about.
He shot over almost 200 threes last season at a 35% clip.
What I really liked about him is where I think he's going to
thrive at Indiana is is as a secondary playmaker and really
getting open catch and shoot looks, which is kind of you
know, you're going to have Conner way and you're going to
have Wilkerson that are that are going to have the ball in their
hands a lot going to create things.
You're going to have Tucker Devries who a lot of the offense
is going to be run through. So when you have guys like that,
other guys are going to be open because they're going to attack
driving lanes, whatever the case is.
So with Doran, as you can see here from the outside on catch
and shoot, unguarded threes, I believe is a effective field
goal percentage last season was 75%.
And so when Darren Devries is building this roster, I think
he's looking at very specific things of, OK, here's how I'm
going to utilize this guy. What are his numbers looking
like in that regard? And so for for Dorn, being able
to knock down threes at a high clip, especially open ones where
he's not forcing a shot off the dribble or something like that,
and more so just getting a catch and shoot.
Look, it's it's awesome. You know, he he he put up great
numbers in that regard. He also rebounds the ball well.
I think 4, 4 rebounds per game. Indiana, you know, as we talked
about, a lot of guys are worried about the size Indiana may not
have, but the Freeze is also getting guys that can rebound
the ball from guard spots, from wing spots.
Dorn's another one of those that can go get some rebounds.
So for me, I really like to pick up, again, think he's somebody
that that'll be utilized in a very specific role and they're
going to have an idea of what he's able to do while while he's
great in the catch and shoot, he can put the ball in the deck,
get to the rim and finish a bit. But I think you're going to see
most of his work done from the outside and then have a lot of
length on defense and versatility on the defensive end
where he can guard multiple positions.
You know, whether that be, you know, more of a big man in the
Big 10 setting or or can step out on the perimeter and guard a
wing. I think that's something that
Debris really liked about Dorn's game.
Scott, I mean you, you got a chance to look at his stats a
little bit. Any any general thoughts to
start with on on Nick Dorn? One thing that's interesting is
last year Balo shot 156 free throw attempts.
All that B roll footage you're showing of Doran is, you know,
catch and shoot looks great. He shot 105 free throws last
year, hitting 81% of them. And that's that's a ton of free
throws for a small guard who's also doing a lot of shooting.
Now, as, as Tony said, how he's going to be utilized in the IU
offense, we don't know. But to to me, that's the stat
that really stood out. Is a a player of that size able
to get to the line and also cover your ears shooting free
throws at 80.1% clip with 100. I mean, nobody else on IU last
year shot over 100 free throws except for Balo.
So having a guard come in who's able to get that get to the line
that much is nice. Again, I'm not sure he's going
to shoot 100 free throws if he's going, you know, if he's going
to have that much of the offense.
But it's a really nice other feather to have in a in a guard
like this where it's not just shooting, but the ability to get
to the line and shoot at 81%. So to me, that was the one stat
that really stood out outside of the other things Tony was
talking about. Yeah.
I think the thing with Doran that I find fascinating is he
was on the way to an A pretty impressive statistical
performance on what was not a great team.
I mean, Elon was I think around 200th and Kenpom, but he missed
the last eight games or not eight games of the season with a
lower extremity injury. So we're not totally sure what
that was. But like, prior to that, this is
a guy that was logging north of 30 minutes a night on a nightly
basis. Like he missed the last eight
games of the season and still played 59% of available minutes
for Elon during this last year, you know, And so the the fact
that he had a really high offensive rating, he was a
really efficient scorer and used a ton of possessions again,
without turning the ball over very much.
This is a theme I keep saying over and over again, not so much
in the point guards. And, and, and maybe this is
Tony, indicative of what Darren Devries's vision is.
You can deal with turnovers from your point guards because
they're facilitating, but he really seems to be targeting
guys who know how to enforce ball security and take care of
the basketball when they are the point of like the, the, the
where the ball is being distributed to, I guess is what
I'm saying. Do you see that as well?
Yeah, certainly so and you know, especially from guys that are
kind of secondary playmakers, those are guys that when the
balls reverse to them, you can't have them make a silly decision
when they're whether they're driving, shooting and just turn
the ball over. And so like you said, in that
regard, very strong and with their, their primary playmakers,
maybe a little bit of a higher turnover rate, like you noted,
but their assist rates are off the chart.
And that's again, kind of the, the type, if you will, of, of
Darren Devries are guys that are, are able to pass the ball.
You know, ball movement is at a premium.
And if you can move the ball, you can move the defense.
If you can move the defense, you open up driving lanes, you open
up driving lanes, you open up shots.
And so it, it's a great thing to see that that these are the kind
of guys that he's targeting. And yeah, with, with a Dorn, you
know, as Scott said, he's able to get to the line, really makes
good decisions, doesn't shoot a lot of bad shots necessarily.
And when he gets to the rim, he's going to go up strong.
And I think he drew 4.4 fouls per 40, so you know, that was in
the top. 500 yeah, that's and that goes back to exactly what
Scott said. I mean, he's he can draw fouls
and he can hit free throws when he gets to the free throw line.
This is also a guy that's got two years of eligibility left,
which I think is we've asked a lot.
Some people have been like, wow, like they're really loading up
on on 5th year guys, six year guys, guys that aren't going to
have another year necessarily after that.
We talked in the last podcast about how that's not the worst
thing in the world in as much as you really do need to have an
experienced team to go out there and be able to reconstitute
around a new roster, new roles, but know how to play basketball,
know how to be effective in positions.
You're a lot more likely to get that with veterans, but you do
want to have some people that you can say, hey, we're going to
bring you up and develop you in this process.
You might play a role this year, but you'll play a bigger role
next year. You know, Scott, like in the new
roster era, that's about the best you can hope for in terms
of bringing guys into the roster and trying to build beyond the
year. Because as we've seen it with
teams like Baylor, you can have years where everybody's gone.
Can you set it up so you've at least got a few pieces to build
around for the following year? Yeah, it it's like we're slaying
old Dragons because wasn't that always the Korean thing?
It's like we just need to get guys in the locker room who, who
know the culture and trying to build the culture.
No, I mean that was something I kept looking at like the inside
the hall scholarships page for a while where you're, you're
seeing the, you know, 252016 get built, but you look out and just
like Sicily just on his own for three years.
It is nice. You now have, you know, with
Dorn, Drake, Miles and Sicily, you have 4 players who are
committed past this next season. You know, you still have a
couple more spots like I could see that getting to 5 or 6.
And to me that's that's kind of a good spot because some people
are going to leave, you know, this it's a newer era of both.
I think the where we're going to play basketball, which will be
nice, but altered with roster construction.
But you know that I think this also, you know, I, I think
people have been concerned, but I also think you have to
understand how much debris is going to have to do here and how
much was was, you know, you're, you're flipping over an entire
roster. You've got to sign 12 to 15
players. And then you also have to figure
out how do I do that in a way where it kind of stretches out
over 4 years? You know, you're getting a, a
mix of those players, you're getting players that you want,
but you're also getting guys who are juniors and sophomores.
And you know, that that's, that's not always going to be
easiest. And I do think, you know, in his
mind, Debris is probably having to make some, you know, is it
the player that I want? Is it the, the, are they in the
amount of eligibility that I want?
Things like that. But it does seem like he's he's
threading the needle pretty well there and you're getting some,
you know, four players for next year.
You hope you get a couple more recruits lined up.
I I think we're in a good. Spot there.
The last thing I'll say on Nick Dorn.
The only downside to Nick Dorn is I can already hear the pun
makers talking about the Dorn identity or the Doran ultimatum.
If he ever hit you just. Put it in the universe, it's
over. It's, it's gonna and it's
actually almost unfortunate cause the next guy we're going
to talk about, his first name is Jason.
You could have had a Jason Doran here and it would have made it
even worse. So anyway, we just wanted to get
that out there anyway, let's. Talk about hang on real quick,
how about Nick Doran? Let's not let's not talk about
the sample size, but against Tier A competition 146 offensive
rating, it may or may not have just been one game, but.
Hey, you know what Everybody else is dishonest about
statistics, Tony. Why can't we be too?
I love that, though. Yeah, that that one game was a
was a really good game against Notre Dame, was the MVP of that
game. I had a 164 offensive rating in
that game and scored 24 points. Was was just a monster out
there. So anyway, let's let's move on
to our next player, which is Jason Drake.
Tony, take it away. Talk a little bit about him as
we roll some B roll. Yeah, we've got a, we've got a,
a Drake. We've got, we've got all kinds
of fun names going on here. We've got a Lamar, you know.
But yeah, with Jason Drake, you know, guy from Drexel averaged
11 points a game. Again, another guy that, that
passing is at a premium with what he's able to do.
I believe over 3 assists per game, assist rate, that's around
25. Again, another guy that that
shot over 100 threes last year shot at a 39 percent .6% clip.
Again, that is part of the type that we've talked about with
with Darren Devries is that a guy in Drake's mold can pass, he
can shoot, he's going to move the basketball. 62 guards.
So a little bit kind of a smaller guard doesn't
necessarily fit like the mold, but still 6 twos.
Not 510, so still has a little bit of size to to compete.
But yeah, I really like his game.
You know, 45% from from two. He was 91 for 200.
So he can get to the rim a little bit as well as shoot from
the outside. Again, this is another guy that
I think is going to be utilized kind of as a combo guard in the
second unit. So can play with in right, but
also could lead the offense if he needs to.
Again, you saw some of his clips passing just a minute ago.
These are some of his clips now from the outside, got a really
quick release, shoots the ball well.
Again, somebody that can be on the floor with other playmakers,
kind of be that that primary or secondary playmaker, depending
on who else on the floor with them and can put the ball in the
bucket. You know, and that's just
something that Indiana hasn't had a lot of in the past pretty
much decade. You know, you go back to Crean's
last year all the way through Archie Miller and then Woody's
era, you've had a playmaker here and there.
But the fact that you've got multiple guys now that that
shoot the three shot over 100 threes in a season at almost a
40% clip. Again, you can you can kind of
see how Devries wanted to build this roster and what he was kind
of placing a premium on. Scott, as we look at these
clips, I mean I'm drawing to a couple of things with this
player 1. He is not afraid to go to the
basket. He clearly has confidence in his
handles. He is not afraid to turn around
and shoot is able to evade defenders pretty effectively,
can pull up and and hit the you know the the shot from the mid
range. Either you look at his assist
rate and again, I, I go back to what I said a minute ago, like
his assist rate's a little over 1 to one in terms of assist to
turnover ratio. But you know, playing on a team
that didn't have a lot of great options offensively as this
Drexel team did. Still pretty impressive that he
was able to rack up a a A+ category offensive rating and
you know, was able to distribute the ball very effectively, shot
the ball very well from outside. Looks like he needs to work on
his layup conversions a little bit.
His he was a little under statistically in close twos.
I only shot 54%, which really isn't nearly good enough, but I
love the athleticism and he he just seems like the type of guy
that you can bring in off the bench and plug in and not really
lose as much as you might otherwise.
And we've seen this with Indiana in the past couple of years,
really for the last seven or eight years when they've lost
their primary ball handler because they have to sit him
down, they have nobody else to go to.
It feels like Indiana's got at least a couple of options now
that can come off the bench and not really miss a step, and
that's really exciting. What's interesting is like, I
feel like we're just doing copy and paste from the Doran
discussion here, which again goes to this nice, like you can
just bring people in because they all do a lot of similar
things. Again, I'm I'm looking at Drake.
You know, everything Tony said is, is on point.
Drake shot 68 free throws last year and shot at 85%.
That would have put him fifth most free throws in the team and
second highest free throw percentage.
So again, another guy who's shooting a lot of threes, but
also able to get to the line. You know it, as you said, it
feels like he has a he has a type.
What I think is funny, and this is something Galen you've gotten
me into kind of playing around with is we're getting some of
these players from these mid major teams.
Just looking through, you know, some of the teams they played
his first year he was on Cleveland State.
The team they played the first, the first game of the of the
season was Notre Dame of Ohio. So there's that team.
But then that last year he played for Drake.
The first team they played was Georgian Court, which sounds
like they might, might be in charge of picking the new Pope
as well as playing basketball. But I just think of like,
paraphrasing the night thing, like it just debris being like,
Georgian Court's not going to be coming on the court tomorrow.
Like this isn't Georgian Court you're going to be facing next
week. Or maybe we just go the other
way around. We just play somebody completely
insane as our first game of the year.
So yeah, unfortunately. Notre Dame of Ohio is not even a
school anymore. There you go.
That's funny. You know the this, this is also
an interesting pick up from my perspective.
Just, you know, it, it felt a little redundant when I first
saw it. But the more I've dug in to
looking at what type of player this is and what he might bring
to the table, the more I'm like, there's almost the potential for
three very different looks with the same personnel that you're
drawing off of. Someone in the chat pointed out
by you right now only has three guys under 65 and everybody can
shoot. And I think that that's that's
one of the key things where it's like you can be flexible in your
lineups in a way that Indiana has not been in a long time Now,
Tony, I think knows this. Scott definitely knows it
because they've he's heard the news about it.
Like one of my favorite teams of all time was that Illinois team
from 1989, the team that lost in the Final four.
And what made that team so fascinating to watch was they
were comprised very similar to what it feels like Darren
Devries is doing. I'll be it with less of an
emphasis on outside shooting, a bunch of interchangeable players
where you can run a lineup of four guys that are between 65
and 69, which in the modern game, Tony, means you can switch
everything, which I know you've been a big advocate for in
certain circumstances for a while.
And what we see out of the offensive games of all these
players is they all seem to share some similar
characteristics. They all have a quick release.
None of them seem afraid to either shoot or put the ball on
the floor. And they seem to all hunt space.
And, and now you've got with Drake, a guy that can do that,
but can also serve as a distributor if they're going to
be working through a couple of different units or a couple of
different looks every game. Knowing that you're going to
have with any shooters, you know, you're going to have
situations where a guy's going to have an off night.
But unlike what you've seen where it's like, well, if Luke
Goody has an off night or if Mackenzie Mbacco has an off
night or Miller cop has an off night, you're screwed.
From outside, it feels like Indiana's got a bunch of fail
safes to say, well, if that doesn't work, we'll try a
different lineup and we might have the same success that that
to me feels. And you're not, you're not
loading with five stars here, but you're loading with guys
that can do those things. And that is really intriguing to
me. Yeah, and a lot of guys that
that can create shots for themselves, for others.
And then you've got the secondary pieces like a Drake
that that can do both, but also in catch and shoot situation.
So that's that's what's so important about some of these
numbers too to me is that, you know, you can look at 3 point
percentage, but it's like, OK, how many of those were late
clock threes or off the dribble threes that they had to pull or,
you know, or we're allowed to shoot?
You know, some of these guys are coming from programs where maybe
shot selection wasn't at a premium.
So that's the things that Darren Devries and his staff dive into
where it's like, OK, let's throw these out.
Let's look at these numbers. And obviously synergy helps
break a lot of that down. Like for Drake, you know, he was
39% three-point shooter, but in in catch and shoot situations
unguarded, you know, he was 69%. And so you look at things like
that and like, OK, well, if I've got Connerway creating, he
swings it to Wilkerson one more over to Drake and he's in
shooting a wide open corner three, I think he's going to hit
that. So those are the things as there
as he's building his team, he knows the offense in the system
that he's going to run. He understands like, OK, well,
if I put guys in these spots, this is where they'll thrive.
And I think that's kind of what Indiana's been missing is like,
OK, this guy scores in this way, let's get him the ball there.
To me, Indiana, over the last eight years, it really more so
has just been like, here's my offense, this is my system, run
it. But it didn't really necessarily
have a rhyme or reason to match the skill sets of the team.
Unless it was get the ball to Romeo Langford, get the ball to
Trace Jackson Davis, get the ball to Malik Renew or Omar
Barlow. Like that's been the end goal of
the offenses here over the course of the last several
years. And it's really what you missed.
I mean, the Korean era at its best, you would have a night
where Cody Zeller was clearly going to be the focal point of
the offense. We'd have another light where it
was going to be Victor Oladipo or it was going to be Christian
Wofford or it was going to be, you know, Thomas Bryant.
Like you had that flexibility and, and it's been so rigid that
when it worked, like when Jalen Huchafino has the game of his
life at Mackie Arena and goes off, OK, great, hey, we won.
But it was, it never felt remotely sustainable because it
was impractical for those guys to have those types of games
consistently. And then it does feel, and
obviously we got to wait till they play the games, but it
feels a lot less like you're banking on the same thing having
to happen every time in order to be successful.
And that is such a radically different approach from what
we've seen Indiana doing here over the course of the last
eight years. And it's almost hard to conceive
of. So I I get where people are
like, I'm still not sure how this works because you haven't
seen it. I don't blame you.
But the pieces are there. Let's talk about the third
piece, Scott. I'm going to we'll start on this
one with the this was the mystery guy and everybody was
surprised. But coming in from the defending
national champions, although he didn't get to play too much
because of injury this year. Sam Alexis, 6-8 right now,
although it's interesting because it's inside the Hall
noted he was 69 last year when he played for Chattanooga, 6-8
this year with Florida. I doubt he shrunk, but this is a
player that even in relatively limited minutes this year,
certainly was functional as a player.
And even though he barely played, once you got past about
the first seven games of the season prior to those injuries,
this was a plus Offensive rating player.
In every game that he played he was contributing minutes wise
like he had games 1614201417. He had several games in double
digit minutes for a Florida team that went on and won the
national championship. This feels like an under the
radar signing that's going to look weird on paper
statistically, but this guy's clearly got a lot of ability
around the basket. I mean, look at some of these
put backs and rebounds and and overall things that he's doing
in the lane offensively for people that are looking for the
big man. This isn't A7 footer, but this
is a guy who clearly knows his way around the post.
Yeah. I mean, the first thought that I
had with this signing was Anthony Walker just off of, you
know, a team that year with Miami that went to the Final
Four who was kind of a lower level contributor.
And I don't mean that as a knock because if you look at Walker's
stats when he played, you know, two years ago, he did, he got
statistically better with Indiana.
He just wasn't used as much. But he everything he did at
Miami, he did more efficiently and increased at Indiana.
So I can see something similar here with Alexis where you, you
could just take this and just continue to grow it with what
he's doing at Florida to, you know, what you see in Indiana.
To me, the biggest difference in Walker and, and Alexis though,
is that Indiana already had like 4 Walkers on the roster when
they signed him with Alexis. You know, he, he fits a need.
Like they, they need a guy that can protect the rim going to
rebound, bring a different energy.
Like, you know, more than likely going to come off the bench and
kind of, you know, it's going to probably be Reed Bailey at the
five. It's going to be a different
type of energy. And when Alexis comes in and
plays the five, like I said, protects the rim a little bit
more, so maybe the guards can get a little bit more aggressive
because they can get beat and there's still somebody there to
protect the rim. You know, I had some people that
were like, I don't really like the signing.
I don't see it. And it's like, OK, well, let's
say we get Indiana's getting a kid from Chattanooga that
average 11 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks per game.
I think everybody's pretty Dang excited about that.
Well, those were his numbers before he transferred to
Florida. Kind of got buried on the bench
a little bit like Galen said, had an injury so then didn't get
to play the last 8-9 games of the season.
So to me he fits a need right. And so that's the biggest thing
that is important to me is it's like there's a coherent plan for
how this roster needs to be built.
There was a coherent plan for how Indiana needed to land a guy
of Sam Alexis's skill set and they went out and got him
seemingly without him ever even visiting campus.
You know I. Think he I think he visited and
we just didn't hear about it potentially, but who knows.
Yeah, at the very least it was. It was a stealth operation, kind
of came out of nowhere. Yeah, I mean, and again, as we
talked about earlier, that's good.
You want to be able to move undercover of darkness in this
era. But yeah, I'm really struck that
you you really hit the nail on the head, Tony, in terms of like
you look at the numbers he had coming out of Chattanooga.
He was in the nearly in the top 200 and effective field goal
percentage as a six nine guy. That's hard to do.
He was 187th in the country in two point field goal percentage
his sophomore year. He was 37th in the country in
block percentage. He was 43rd in the country in
defensive rebounding percentage. Like this guy was a dynamite
pick up for Florida in terms of athleticism.
Now, it turned out they didn't need him, but they just won the
national title. So we probably shouldn't read
too much into that, especially since he clearly had an injury
that limited him throughout the course of the second or the last
2/3 of the season. So when I look at this, I say
there's you clearly have to take on faith that he's going to rise
to the occasion and be a guy that can play regularly.
But I agree with you, Tony, if you've got Reed Bailey as your
five, but this is a guy who can come in and play it.
Either the four or the five change the energy.
He's very bouncy like this is this may be one of the two or
three most athletic players that Indiana has pulled so far in the
portal. He clearly knows how to control
his body in the post and as someone pointed out with the
Trace Jackson Davis size comp like you can have an effective
center that's not 7 feet tall. It requires a different
defensive approach. But again, if you if you're able
to limit the disadvantages that you are facing by being able to
switch, if that's indeed how they decide to go defensively,
it makes that less of a big deal.
Yes, you're still going to have big guys that you will attack or
have to attack, but that's where good positioning and good
technique can combat things. It's not like all of the teams
that had 7 foot centers automatically won everything
this year. Many of them were almost like
handcuffed to some degree because of the problems that
they ran into on the other end. And those guys get in foul
trouble a lot easier than the six, nine guys do.
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to me, it's just
it's such a mindset shift that I understand why there's some some
kind of like consternation from Indiana fan.
First of all, Reed Bailey isn't short some for some reason, his
six 10611 stature continues to kind of get overlooked because
of the way he plays the game offensively.
But he's still not he's 66106 eleven depending on what site
you look at. And then you've got a guy in Sam
Alexis that that clearly Todd Golden saw something in to to
go, you know, pull him in last season to a national
championship roster. You know, this isn't a guy that
that Devries is is going to be counting on for 2530 minutes a
game. This is a guy that you plug in
in spurts or you're playing more of an athletic center or Ree
Bailey gets a foul strip or whatever the case may be.
You know, where he might play 20 minutes maximum.
But really you're looking at more of a sweet spot between
like 12 and 15 perhaps for for him to play.
And it just give you a different look in a different type of
energy. And so, and also like, I know
this is is kind of breaking news, perhaps Indiana fans, but
like, he doesn't have to play with only second unit players.
Wait, I thought we had to. Don't we have to change the
entire line up at the 12 minute mark of every game?
And so, you know, you plug him in with with a more athletic
lineup or, or some of the starting lineup and, and whatnot
and gives him a different look from a ball screen standpoint.
He because Reed Bailey's going to be more of a pick and pop
threat or he's going to be more of a pick and roll threat,
catching lobs at the rim again, aggressive on the offensive
rebounding front. And so I like to pick up, you
know, it's it, it fits a need that Indiana needs.
So this is where maybe we take the remainder of this
conversation. We'll go for another 10 minutes
or so on the show here, but we've heard a lot of question
marks about what exactly what's left.
I mean, so like Jim actually asked a good question.
What is the second unit on this team?
So let's let's quickly I want to I want to call up the the latest
Ken Pom comp thing with that I sent Tony earlier.
Let me let me pull this up real fast.
Let's see if this is right. Yep, there it is.
So here's here's your Ken Pom comparison page.
Now of all the players, I've got Luke Goody on there still.
We've had a lot of questions about whether Luke Goody is
going to get his waiver. I still think he's going to get
the waiver, but I don't have any actual factual evidence to back
that up. It's just a feeling on my part.
But let's look at this roster as it currently stands.
So you got Tatan Conner way at six.
Three seems likely to be the starting point guard.
You've got Tucker Debris, who's likely to a get a waiver and
maybe be the starter at the three, I would guess, feel free
to agree with you, maybe the four.
You've got Lamar Wilkerson, who seems destined to be the
starting two. You've got Reed Bailey, who's
likely the starting 5 right now. And then you've got a bunch of
different options that either the three or four that you could
plug in given who's there. So you've also got Connor
Enright, who's going to probably get a significant number of
minutes, but probably not start at point, Sam Alexis, who we
just talked about who could come in if you're playing a really
big team and be your four. And that would change the
perspective on the line of a bit.
You've got Jason Drake who's clearly in the in the guard, the
1-2 category. You've got Nick Dorn, who we
talked about earlier. And then you've got Goody.
That's the roster along with Trent Sisley, who plugs in out
of four probably. And then you what?
So you got what, 123456789? And if you've got and you've got
Sicily at 10, Goody makes 11. You've got 13 scholarships.
What do you see them doing with the remaining slots on this
roster, Tony? Yeah, I could see them maybe
looking at freshman for for one more spot, which would then put
them at 12, assuming Goody gets the waiver or goes to court and
wins or whatever the case is there.
And then maybe you sit on one open scholarship to see what
happens in in summer ball. There are, you know,
decommitments and, and things that happen there, you know, the
the big kid out of Iceland that decommitted from Arizona State.
Seems like there, there could be some, some traction there.
But I would, I would love to get another freshman, maybe 2 into
the fold just for what we had talked about previously.
As you get some continuity, some guys that that learn and then at
the same time, too, freshmen are more likely to, you know, not
get pissed if they're not playing.
If you sell that to them from the start, you get 11-12 guys
you pulled into the portal that you took you, you're seemingly
selling them a role on, you know, on the team and all of a
sudden they're not playing a lot.
That can cause some consternation, locker room
issues, all that stuff. So to me, if you build up a
roster where you have, you know, your 10 guys that you're
probably going to play in your rotation at some point, maybe
not each game, but at some point there's going to be those 10.
And then you've got two or three that are, are development pieces
that that you're really kind of looking towards the future with.
To me, that's that's the happy medium to find.
So that's kind of what I could envision them doing.
But I know too, like sometimes you just take best available,
like, and then you figure it out later.
So when you kind of have your roster how you want it and
you've got a couple open spots, maybe now you really focus in on
a Euro guy or something that that that you've been looking
at. But to me, there's a.
There's a couple different ways you could go here, but either
way, I like them. Finding guys that they can
develop in their system, that they can have that continuity
moving into next year, assuming they don't hit the portal.
So I have a question for both of you guys on this is just looking
at that roster for next year. And you know, I, I want to be
positive. I don't want to throw cold water
on this, but you know, last year during during the off stage, you
look, it's like, all right, you know, I can see where you know,
Miles Rice is going to open the floor.
If you got Bolo renew, you know, they can make it work.
And we're always trying to look at the positive piece.
I am curious and, and I look at this and I, I fully admit I like
everything I'm seeing and I, I, I hear everything we're saying.
I'm just curious from both of your perspectives, if things
don't work, why, what do you think would be the reason why
what we see now isn't going to work?
Or what could be some of the issues out there that, you know,
maybe we should have been looking more at last year that
we could look at, you know, looking ahead for next year?
Well, I mean, I'll start on this, Tony.
And I guess there's two big things I would look at.
One is, can this team coalesce and play defense effectively?
And that's that's a big question mark.
This is a lot more of a Creighton roster or a Drake
roster for Darren Devries than it is the West Virginia roster
that he had last year. That West Virginia roster had a
lot of athleticism and a lot of defensive ability that I don't
think it been tapped particularly well the previous
season. He managed to harness that.
He had to because he didn't have the offensive firepower after
the first part of the year. There's no guarantee that this
group is going to be able to coalesce on that front because
it's hard to take defensive effort and ability out of the.
You can't really look at it on an individual basis except in
things like steel percentage, which we've got a couple of
players in this transfer portal class that clearly can pressure
the ball. But how does that work in terms
of a holistic system? The other issue, and and this is
one that I keep seeing brought up and I don't think it's an
unreasonable question, is you've got a ton of players that are
from the lower levels of college basketball.
How well do their games translate to the Big 10 and to
the power conference level? You know, and if you look at
there, there are there have been isolated but consistent cases
with a lot of teams where you've been able to take players from
the mid major level or below, plug them into the next level
and they've worked. But that's generally been
getting plugged into a roster of athletes that were recruited to
the power conference level. And so there's less leaning on
them. How does that work when they're
all from that level? And, and this is where it's like
they might all be D1 high power conference caliber players that
either got under recruited or developed quite a bit in their
first couple of years. But you are leaning quite a bit
on the idea that those players have the ability within them to
play at this level. Those are the two things I'd be
the most concerned about. I I trust Darren Devries, I
don't think he's going out and getting players that can't
translate. And this is where he and his
assistants, this is where they make their money that, you know,
the talent evaluation and like that guy will work at this level
and this is how we're going to make it happen.
That's honestly where I think we're the the rubber's going to
hit the road or not when it comes to this roster.
Tony, what are your thoughts on this?
Defense would would be my first thought just because some of
these guys have some lower defensive box plus minus yeah.
And then what what coach Tansone just put there is everybody's
going to have to buy into a new role maybe minus Wilkerson and
Devries, you know those those two are still going to be high
usage guys that the offense is going to run through more than
likely. But pretty much everybody else
on this roster was their team's best player last season.
And trying to get those guys together, buy into their role
and then just understand each others games.
Like there's a reason continuity is a real metric you look at in
terms of building a team and how far they can go.
Because you just have to understand how each other play
and where you like the ball and all that good stuff.
Now what gives me some excitement or kind of like what
helps me rest easy at night with that is that this is not new to
Darren Devries. He did it completely new roster
at West Virginia last season, completely new roster minus his
son at Drake the year prior and both he should have made the
tournament at West Virginia and made the tournament at Drake.
I looked last year, I think there were ten teams that had a
complete rebuild. Kentucky and Louisville were the
only two that made the tournament, which to me that's
the level that Indiana's on in terms of resources where you
have. And what I mean by that is you
have the resources to go out and build a new team that actually
can be high caliber. And then the next best rated
team was West Virginia, which again thought that they should
have made the tournament, but their resources were at a lower
level than Indiana. And that's why Darren Devries is
here now, right? So to me, those are kind of the
two things that give me a little bit of heartburn.
But I also like win with Scott where you know, there we won't
know till we know. But I feel good about it in
terms of of how they're building this roster.
And the main reason I feel good about it is while basketball is
a different sport than football, we just saw it done with Coach
Signetti at the football realm bringing some some lower tier
guys, but have a chip on their shoulder.
Maybe feel that they were overlooked and then was able to
put them in into a cohesive unit and then go out there and, and
dominate, you know, college football.
So that also helps me feel good. Like I just saw it done in a
much more difficult situation in terms of Indiana football.
And so the while I, you know, I don't think Indiana's a final 4
caliber roster, I do feel good about what they've built thus
far and that they'll be able to compete night in night out.
I'm going to do Colin. Coward and answer my own
question. Just do a little solo radio here
for a second. I I my other this is a thing
that I like, but also a concern. You know, as I look at this team
to something Galen, you mentioned in the pod a couple
weeks ago, just how how the SCC really transformed how they were
recruiting and building basketball teams in the Big 10
is still kind of led by Michigan State and Purdue building teams
a different way. I like that it looks like we're
building a little more SEC style team with with the kind of
players that we're getting, the schools are coming from the size
and all of that, but we're still playing in the Big 10 next
season. And so the idea of we're just
going to, you know, we're still going to be competing against
Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue teams that have big players.
I'm not saying we can't compete with it, but the idea that we
are going to be able to radically do all of this change
in one year and, and change the paradigm within the conference.
I, I think we're on the right track.
I think that it, from what I'm seeing, we're going about this
the right way. But I do think it, you know, we
still play in the Big 10 and it's going to be hard against
some of those teams and just the way the Big 10 is.
And so if we're helping to move that forward, it may be.
Be a 234 year process. Well, yeah, I agree.
Although here's what I would look at it as the the reality is
Indiana has to build itself back up to a national level of
relevance among recruits. This has to become a destination
once again, not just for top rated recruits that are looking
for a home and a quick payday, but guys who are buying into a
particular system, especially to talk about what Mike Weemuth
talks about regularly on X's and Joe's being able to grab those
guys in the sweet spot. Those those, you know, 30 to 80
ranked players who can stick around for multiple years build
into a system. Indiana's essentially got to
demonstrate what that system looks like.
Are you going to go out and be able to get high major players
as transfers to fill those roles effectively?
No. Like what?
Why would those players leave their current situations, the
ones that would probably you don't want and the ones that you
want you probably aren't going to be able to get?
Because why would they leave their current situation to go
out and get a bunch of guys who are in the next tier who
clearly, as coach Tom Sony mentioned in the comments, are
high usage guys. They're high output guys, I
guess for lack of a better term. The all of it adds up to me to a
team that's got a ceiling. As Tony pointed out, it's got a
significantly higher floor. And to Scott's point about you
got to play in the Big 10. I I think you can catch
lightning in a bottle in a given year in the Big 10 if you are
throwing a system out there that other teams are not equipped to
defend effectively. Because if you look at what's
happened in the Big 10 over the course of of the last few years,
and I think Illinois has been a great example of a, a program
that's done this. You know, I think that you've
got a couple of other examples of of this, but if you look at
who has been the most effective in the Big 10 over the course of
the last several years, Wisconsin did it this year as
well. Teams that focus on shooting,
teams that focus on ball movement, teams that focus on
exchange of players and being able to not lose a whole lot.
They are able to win more games than they lose in this
conference. I think USC actually kind of did
it a little bit this year at a lower level.
Indiana is going to throw something out there that almost
reminds me of, I mean, this is a weird ass comp.
I acknowledge it. It reminds me of what Joe Tiller
did in his first year as a Purdue football coach.
Like he was like, we're never going to be able to compete with
the way our current structure is against the Michigan's and the
Ohio states. So let's do a completely
different thing out there. And yeah, are we going to win a
national title or win go to the Rose?
We'll probably not. But can we get to a bowl?
Can we? Can we win our rivalry games?
And that's what happened. And it's set up this 5 or 6 year
string where they actually built to the level they were, where
they were a national contender. Indiana, I think can do that in
basketball on a shorter time scale.
Maybe it doesn't take the four years you're talking about, but
Indiana's got to be viewed as a serious contender.
And right now they're not viewed as a serious contender I think
by a lot of players out there. You know, it's a landing spot,
it's not a destination. And you know, as Coach Tonsone
points out, we had transfers from Stanford, Washington State,
Arizona and Illinois and did not make the tournament last year.
Well, that's what I like about this team is it's a lot of guys
who seem to have a chip on their shoulder.
Not saying other guys didn't, but you know, a lot of a lot of
players in this team played at a lower level.
They were under recruited. They, they probably feel like
they're all, you know, Tom Brady, so to speak, like to the
NFL drafts going on, like they all feel like they're getting
jobbed and they're ready to show and prove something.
I, I like, I think, I do think if nothing else, this team is
going to be one that people can rally behind 'cause that's
something. The last couple years there's
just been a disconnected feat. You know, that there hasn't been
the same connection with the fans and the teams.
It does feel like a bunch of guys who have a chip on their
shoulder who want to show that's that's a real fun team to watch.
Yeah. I think it's funny too that
there's there's been, you know, a lot of our shows just national
folks talking about like Tucker Devries is completely overlooked
on this roster. And he's a really.
Really not on the team. It's wild, you know?
Well, and the fact that you got regret, you're almost like,
well, that doesn't count. It's like, but it does like he
is going to play like he does count as a transfer and a
recruit, yes. And I mean like potential all
American level player, like very, very, very good player.
And like, because he's the coach's son, it's just like,
completely. Overlooked.
Yeah. As if it in the game, the refs
were like, those points don't count.
Like every coach's son points only count, you know, half a
percent or something. Yeah.
Look, this is I'm I'm excited. I'm not promising anything and
nobody should, but I think that as I said in one of the
emergency podcasts, we did enjoy the building it everything is
possible right now. You know, I was looking at the
Torvic page for next year. You know where he'll he'll take
the the different projections into account and try to throw up
what statistically it looks like things are going to be.
And right now he's got IU projected at 31st in the country
with the 23rd ranked offensive efficiency and the 42nd ranked
defensive efficiency. And that's what just.
Yeah, I mean, so, you know, you're in the same realm as, you
know, several teams that you would consider contenders.
Indiana right now with the roster they've got is projected
higher than Arizona, higher than Alabama, higher than, you know,
several team, Clemson, who, you know, obviously had a great year
last year. Now, does that mean that's going
to happen? No.
But the pieces statistically look good.
So enjoy that. Just just buy into that for now.
And look, I think again, you have to almost dispense of
whatever you thought the roster should look like or what we've
gotten conditioned to it looking like.
This is going to be a new system.
And look, I'll tell everybody this right now on May or on
April 25th, there's going to be growing pains.
There's going to be a couple of games probably early on where
like the team looks like they don't know them each other and
don't know what they're supposed to be doing.
And then there'll be games where they will blow somebody out.
This happened to Kentucky this year with a couple of games
early on where they went from, OK, this is a real bad idea to
wow, that team just did that. You know, I think this will be a
building process. Someone mentioned the idea of a
summer tour that would help this team coalesce.
I think that that's going to be a big part of it.
They're not going to have a long on ramp because they've got some
big games early on. The Marquette game is real early
in the season. But to some degree, if they can
figure out how to click offensively and start to
coalesce defensively, this team looks like a grower to me.
One that is guys get more comfortable both with each other
and the roles that they're playing.
They're going to be all right and maybe even a lot better than
all right. And in a Big 10, that's all over
the place right now in terms of styles of play.
I don't think it's a necessity that you have the big seven
footer or that you have a line up.
If you know, this gives Indiana for the first time the chance to
shoot over a line up, that's just like we're not letting you
shoot anything from 18 feet in. Now Indiana is no longer
handcuffed to that. And as Tony Stuckey pointed out
in the chat, you know, you may not see A1 through 5 traditional
lineup. You're almost certainly not
going to. This isn't a lineup that's going
to be about can you ride the hot hand?
Can you get the right players on the floor on the right nights in
the right matchups? It's a lot more complex than
just, you know, my team is on the floor and that's that.
That's going to be an interesting thing to watch with
this team. I hear all that and if anyone
you know was listening from the Devries coaching staff, I
understand about the growing pains.
Let's just not make it the first game 20 point loss to Indiana
State at home. Like let's just make the growing
pains something a little bit different.
Not I hear, I hear you. Just let's not, let's not have
that again. Yeah, that was that was the
beginning of the end. And and here we are eight years
later, it's still yeah. But yeah, it's it's it's an
exciting roster build, as Galen noted to it's, it's something to
look forward to the the European Tour, if that's going to happen,
will be great for this team, not only from a basketball
standpoint, but from just like a team bonding and building
standpoint. Like that stuff matters.
That's where you build your culture.
And like, I know that's a buzzword that's probably
overused, but like, culture is something that's important.
And if your locker room's in a good spot, guys play for each
other, that that just changes the dynamic of the team.
And, and you can see it as a fan too on the floor.
Teams that gel together and teams that don't really look
like they they care about one another.
It's it's not typically too hard to to kind of figure out.
But but yeah, I'm I'm excited for what this roster is turning
into. And there's still a couple
pieces to go. And that's kind of the
interesting part now. But also it gives his staff a
little bit of time to breathe. I think start figuring out the
high school recruiting landscape.
You know, this season's going to be very important for how
they're going to be able to recruit moving forward.
You know, that way they can say, hey, we bought this guy in and
and we put him in these positions and and you know,
that's why Indiana couldn't land a guy like Berlin Mullins.
They had no way to showcase how they could use a player of his
caliber. Well, now they're going to have
those opportunities to have guys like Wilkerson and De Vries
where you can showcase high level talents, how they can be
used, run off screens, things like that.
And then you can land them and you've got a good INIL to to
sweeten the pot a bit as well. Indiana not done yet.
They'll be probably at least a couple more additions to the
roster. I will say there was a little
discussion about what the roster limit is.
It's a little bit dependent on what happens with the house
settlement. But also keep in mind I I'd be
surprised if they carried more than 12 full time players
because at this point, what's the purpose?
Like, you know, the anybody who's willing to sit on the
bench, maybe not either not good enough to play or might leave
after one year. And you really aren't playing
more 9 or 10 guys generally anyway.
And unless you got major injury issues.
And Indiana's got some flexibility with this roster
already that they haven't had in previous year.
So we'll see. But I expect at least at least
one, maybe two more additions depending on what happens with
Goody. And it's going to be fascinating
to see what direction they go with this as it's clear the one
piece that they still would like to get.
And I've heard several names even the Tony didn't mention
here publicly that are possibilities as well.
So I think we'll see something on that soon.
Yeah. The thing about the the
scholarship limit too is I know they they're increasing that to
15. But once you go over 13, that
cuts into your Rev share. I can't imagine Indiana's going
to put two guys in the end of their bench to cut into revenue,
revenue sharing for the other 12 or 13.
So I'd be shocked if they ever went over 13 because then it
starts cutting into revenue sharing for for your top
contributors. Yeah, anyway, I think we'll go
ahead and wrap up. Go ahead and separate.
Let's take the weekend, enjoy Little 5 and hopefully we'll
come back with more to talk about.
Go Pacers. Yeah 3 great first two games for
the Pacers. You got to finish the finish
things off, but thanks to all of you who tuned in live to listen
to us here on Friday, April 25th as Indiana continues to add to
their roster for the 2526 season.
Thank you to Tony Adronia and to Scott Caulfield, you guys
answering the bell really filled my heart today.
Thank you so much and we will look forward to chatting with
you all again soon. Be sure to tune into the back
Home network as we continue to cover IU football, IU basketball
and other things related to Indiana University.
We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, stay never
daunted. Bring back the Bison.
So long, everybody.