You're listening to the back home network presented by home
field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale
and Claudia Scott Caulfield joining you.
Once again, it is the 10th of February.
We had to take a little bit of a hiatus.
In podcasting largely because of our live event that happened
this past Saturday, in Bloomington, great to see
everybody down at switchyard. Great to see the guys from
assembly call. And Scott.
We missed a couple of games that.
Well, you know, the podcasting is fun when there's wins.
And there, haven't been a whole lot of those in the last week
and a half. Unfortunately, but here we are
to talk about where Indiana basketball is at.
And first of all, to talk about how you're at.
How are you? At what's going on?
How you doing? I'm good.
Yeah, sorry, I missed everybody at the switchyard event of the
world was conspiring to not, get me there.
And what I mean by that is I was supposed to go to Boston for a
wedding, everything got cancelled, all the flights got
canceled. So I theoretically would have
been able to drive down but three days before the wedding.
So last Wednesday, I took some covid test to get ready to go to
the wedding and I was positive and so I'm breaking my own HIPAA
here. So there you go, but it was
weird. I had no I had no symptoms, but
I did have To isolate in the house.
I wore the mask, you know, luckily my wife and kids all
tested negative and then never showed symptoms.
And I was one of the rare ones who never got symptoms through
the whole thing. So I kind of Breeze through it.
I'm not making light of it. But yeah.
Anyway, so I was, I was definitely sitting in my guest
room, with the door closed watching the game thinking of
all you guys the switchyard being like, wow, they're between
trips and cancellations and covid.
Like this was, the world did not want me to go to that event.
So I was not there, so, hopefully, hopefully next year,
We're pandemics and whether and weddings allow me to come to the
live event. It's a, it's always a less than
complete event when you're not there.
So hopefully you will be down next time.
But now I look was a good time and we certainly appreciate
everybody coming out and joining us at the show and raising
money. Look great sound a great.
Yeah, raising money for charity and just getting a chance to
interact with people always a good time.
So we got a chance to see Connor from home field of All down
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All right, Scott, where do we start?
Where do we start? Well, I guess we got to start
with the big story, which is that Indiana played at
Northwestern. On Tuesday night, 9 p.m.
Eastern tip, never the best of times to talk about watching a
basketball game because it's either thrilling and you're up
all night or it's awful. And you're depressed, all the
next morning. This one was definitely in the
latter category. Although there were some things
to get upset about if you were the type of person to do.
So, as we found out right before tip that Indiana's, Mike Woodson
had suspended five players for the game 4.
I guess the best way to describe it because we haven't gotten an
explanation, and I don't think we will would be like, conduct
detrimental and this included starting point guard, Xavier
Johnson. It started start its included,
the starting shooting guard, Parker Stewart, Michael juror,
who had been in some hot water earlier in the season also.
Benched and in, in general, Indiana lost.
I think 46 percent of their their scoring or 46 percent of
their minutes. I think it was in the five
players. That we didn't play Hoosiers.
Played pretty well in the first half.
I feel like we've seen this movie a few times where they
they were Scrappy. They took a lead.
They lost a little bit of the lead, but they maintain just
enough of it that you could be somewhat optimistic about the
second half. But then in the second half, the
team ran out of gas Trey Galloway who really played a
good game. For the most part, had a couple
of very unfortunate hook and holds that he committed Trace
Jackson, Davis, really? Race Thompson wasn't his normal
self and the team kind of fell apart in the last 10 minutes of
the game. Northwestern picking up.
What for them was a very much-needed Victory.
And, and unfortunately, IU with a loss in a game that they
probably couldn't afford to lose in terms of their overall
tournament resume. They needed to pick up some Road
wins, but Scott the window or the loss, the game itself was
almost secondary to the news of the suspension and it's, what's
had? I you the fan base of Buzz here
over the course of the last couple of days.
What, what is your overall take on this situation?
Yeah, it's by the way. It's like I don't like
situations like this, but I was thinking this morning.
This is kind of why we have this podcast because this would be
something in a non podcast world.
I would have called you and we were just talk for an hour about
it. So this is anyway, here's one of
my first thoughts and I'm not taking a side here and I've been
guilty on both sides of this, but I do find it interesting.
How when these things do happen. It does seem to be The kind of
crystallization of where you can see where people feel the
program is at. And what I mean by this is we've
had situations somewhat similar to this in the past.
So in this one Woodson suspends the players and for the most
part again judging by the podcast and kind of the social
media reaction. It seems very much.
Like everybody is the Players. Let the team down the players.
Screw this up like Woodson's being a tough coach, that's
fine. And again, let me just get this
out without taking sides here. There is a Situation years back
where, you know, Devin Dumas and Harper.
A had a car thing with Yogi Ferrell.
There wasn't Devon. Dumas.
It was, it was Devin Davis. But what Devin Davis?
Sorry? Yeah, covid.
By the way, I can explain all presentation problems the rest
of my life on covid brain fog. So we're not letting you get
away with it. We know the truth.
Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, but you know, there was
that an oddly like Yogi, never seem to get connect to that the
rest of his career, but that was very much at the time.
I think I was on this bandwagon the time like that.
A Creed as lost control of this team.
Like, this is a coach who's lost control of the team, because the
players are doing this, it felt like that way very much the end
of the day, visera. That was like, who the players
were still getting suspended here?
And there, it was very much like the coach has lost control of
the team. So I just, I do find it
interesting that when these things happen, it's either a
coach has lost control of the team or the coaches, throw it,
you know, coaches doing what he needs to do, is the Players
fault. I find that interesting that
basically. Again, I And they are different
situations, but for kind of a similar situation of players
being suspended. You can you can basically play
both sides of the field and I'm as guilty of this as anybody
where. So I just, I find that
interesting where, for the most part in this situation.
Everybody is on Woodson side and kind of saying the players let
the team down. So that was the kind of the
first thought that I had which doesn't answer any questions.
But no, I mean, it's it sucks. You know, I would also say this
that it is kind of jarring to be like, there's Five Guys who, you
know, got suspended that said, it's like I was putting this in
a couple texts from friends. Like Christian Lander, basically
doesn't play, Michael dirr plays.
Like three or four minutes, you know, Parker Stewart is kind of
a ghost after the starting lineup goes out like most games.
He's kind of there but not there.
Man. Always eating up minutes.
It's like you basically lost Xavier Johnson, which is a big
loss. Like that's a big loss for this
team, but the, you know, being like Oh God during Lander out
like dirt. Does provide some backup help
but it was more the the number of guys than actually like which
guys were out there that sucked. And so I you know, I still feel
like that team could have won at Northwestern but yeah, it does
feel like I'll end with this. It does feel like you know,
chronic Hoosier kind of put this in a tweet very eloquently that
you know, this feels like this is kind of the fork in the road
moment for this team. Like are they going to come
together or they going to fracture a part?
And to me, you know? I would err on the side of like
look, these are these are college kids.
We watch college basketball, like it was kind of, no surprise
looking back. They lost to Michigan, like they
want a great game at Purdue. They probably went out and party
as I would have done it. 21, 22 years old to be helped.
I did as a 40 year old guy was pretty fired up after that game.
They came out flat because that was, you know, they went a
little nuts after that. They, I get it, these kids made
some mistakes. It's like people make mistakes,
people screw up a college or college the bout to me.
It's like, you can you can make up for it by going.
And kicking some ass against Michigan State or Wisconsin like
come out and really show like, hey, I'm sorry.
I screwed up and go kick some ass.
The trouble is like those were really, you can play your ass
off and still lose the Michigan State.
So anyway, I'm going to stop because I'm rambling down.
I've given you a lot to chew on, so I'll stop there at a, in a
mid paragraph Point. Okay.
Look, I mean, I'll say this. I've thought about this a lot
over the last couple of days and I think to some degree, these
sorts of situations are bound to be misinterpreted or over
interpreted in the social media era because you know, we would,
you know, look, we've seen players get suspended before
we've seen, you know, guys, do you know things that the
coaching staff didn't like and prior generations?
And people would talk about it, but it wasn't one of those
things that took on a life of its own, in terms of public
conversation, the way that it does Now on Twitter, especially
and unfortunately, I feel like in this particular era of social
media. This stuff is just red meat for
the over reactionary aspects of how people act on social media,
you know, there's this There's this disinhibition that comes
with being online, now, where you can overdo it in terms of
what you say, or how you react to things, simply because
there's no ramifications for you and going out and, and
criticizing people for what they've done.
Even, if they've done things that, you know, we would
classify as wrong. There's also, you know,
overreactions to the overreactions and and people
going too far. The other direction and saying,
well, you know, you know, this is just a Small mistake, it's
not worth being critical over to this degree.
And so, you kind of even lose sight of the original thing.
And I think the original thing if I'm parsing things correctly,
and if I think back over the course of the last several
years, to me, this is more of a culmination of a long period of
time of IU basketball, just not having a great culture around
it. And I don't know that
necessarily Woodson is going to be able to build a better
culture. I mean, I think he, he seems
more concerned about It than the previous coaches did, but I
think that, you know, is a very interesting move.
I'm still not totally sure. It was. 100% the right move on
Woodson's part because we don't really know what the Genesis of
the situation was or anything like that.
And I think there were some rumors that came out before the
game about what the actions were that led to this and why Woodson
took the actions that he did. And we you know at the end of
the day, we really don't know what the situation was.
You know, I'm sure there's rumors or whatever that you
could believe if you wanted to, but the reality is, it doesn't
necessarily matter. What matters is that the head
coach of IU basketball in when it was just, you know, maybe not
a must-win game but a really, really need to have game decided
to bench, you know, almost half of his team and put his team in
a situation where they weren't going to win the game.
I mean, there was almost no scenario where they were going
to be able to pull that out with essentially six players on
scholarship playing in that game Logan.
Duncan didn't even see the floor.
I just, you know, I'm kind of at a point with IU basketball where
I'm not sufficiently moved emotionally to get mad about
this at this point because it's just kind of what I expect.
And it honestly, it kind of goes back to the, you know, the the
perea Devin Davis thing and it goes back before that with other
things that have occurred, if you look across Sports, as I
mentioned a little bit earlier. The one thing you can't hire and
it's the one thing that you can't just like, have a peer and
it's, you know, if you look at the successful college
basketball programs out there, you can debate how and why they
do things. But generally speaking, the best
programs consistently are the ones that have a winning
mentality in their culture one that takes care to have players
doing things the right way. And not just being enforced by
the Coaching staff. But rather having things being
enforced by the players and I still don't think that this team
necessarily is at that point. And I think that Woodson is
apparently trying to instill that in his team.
But ultimately what matters is the team caring enough about the
culture to do things in a way that needs to be done and and to
police their own conduct. That's really the only way that
you get to this and fix something like this.
And I just Don't know if I you is at a point right now in terms
of its roster makeup where you're going to have guys doing
that. And you know, that's I think
that's Brad by two decades of not being a program that takes
itself as seriously as it used to.
And, you know, I you can say well that's just people who are
living in the past. But look, there's plenty of
programs out there that take themselves seriously and win a
lot of basketball games these days.
And, you know, these are the programs that everybody points
to and would like to be And Indiana just hasn't been that
for a long time. So I wasn't really angry about
the news. I was more just kind of bemused.
I was like, wow, this is still happening.
And you know, Woodson does not get it absolved of blame for the
fact that still happening. But I also think that this is a
culmination of a lot of years of recruiting players who are
individually talented, but for one reason or another don't buy
into and maybe because there's nothing to buy into a culture, a
mentality of being serious about what they're doing and and
ultimately, you know, when I when I heard Woodson's comments
in the post game, That's why, you know, I mean he's not going
to spill the beans on what the individual items were, really
what it's about is, do you take playing for IU?
And do you take playing college, basketball, seriously, doesn't
have to be I you we have this proud long-standing tradition of
thinking that were a superior basketball culture at IU.
But the reality is nothing on the court is showed that really
since, you know, the early 2010's.
So this is to me, just more of the same.
I don't necessarily agree with chronic, Hoosier that this is,
you know, the fork in the road. Because I don't think you change
culture overnight. I don't think suspending five
players is going to make much of a difference because it's way
easier for players at this point to feel wronged or feel hard
done by and, you know, or just say, I don't really care.
Okay, suspend me big deal. I didn't have to play at
Northwestern. I'm, you know, like until that
changes. It's hard to Envision things
really altering and you know, this isn't meant to be, I'm not
trying to denigrate any Visual player.
But, you know, there's there's a spark of of attitude and and
dedication and, you know, an unwillingness to allow
whatever's happening to negatively affect you that I
just haven't seen with this team.
They play good some nights. They play really bad other
nights. They've kind of gradually
devolved here over the last couple of weeks.
Anyway, in terms of just what they're doing on the floor like
you week and we'll talk about that in a little bit.
But I just think it's a larger issue than just whatever
happened that led to the suspension.
And I just don't know if what Woodson did is ultimately going
to make much of a difference with this year's team.
It's what you say dovetails into my next thought perfectly
because you're talking about because I was in a similar boat
where I was annoying like, oh my god, really, but I wasn't like
Furious. I wasn't like worked up and like
this is an embarrassment and like a lot of those things just
didn't really hit. At me.
And the way that I looked at like you mentioned again like we
talked about really excite like I was In quite lost it.
And then we come back and it's like we beat Braska.
Then we lose Wisconsin and you know, we get we've gotten
moments this year, where it feels like the I'm using myself
as a corollary, but the fan base has gotten kind of fired up, you
know, like obviously the Purdue game you could feel the energy
there, but then, you know, I was the game against Michigan and
you could feel the energy was different and Assembly Hall.
Like we didn't extend it over to players.
Didn't the fans did the whole program didn't and it it got me
thinking to your point about just kind of like this.
Program doesn't have it. Like what was really frustrating
to me about this stretch of the Illinois, Northwestern the
suspensions is, it's a carryover of the end of the Tom crean era
and the Archie Miller era. In this respect.
The Archie Miller era to me is going to be remembered as kind
of like a start and stop like, just a car with a bad clutch
where you get a win and then like you immediately get a loss
and you never and it got me thinking.
When was the last time we had? I'm just picking an arbitrary.
Re number 18 or 20 calendar days where you've been like IU?
Basketball is bat like we're back on track and we're going
use this heat Seasons analogy. Like you're getting excited.
You lose a Syracuse. So Nebraska look lose to
Wisconsin. That's like Notre Dame like,
okay. We beat Notre Dame.
It's all right, those two games were flukes and played really
well and then it's like literally night 16 days later.
You lose the Penn State, you know, God that he come back and
beat Ohio says, alright, we're back.
And then literally like seven days later lose the Iowa and
like Purdue Michigan that you have this up and down.
Go back, you know Archie Miller era is littered with that.
Like you go back even to I'm just kind of I'm not going to do
this the whole game but the whole podcast like you go back
to 2017. We lose the Fort Wayne.
It's like, oh God, then we beat North Carolina at home.
We crush them. The third in the country.
It's like, all right, we're good to go and then literally, like,
you know, 16 days later. We lose the butler.
It's like, oh, are we bad? Like and this has been going on.
I mean, probably since that season were ranked.
Number one, even in that season. I remember like that.
We, we took the number one ranking.
Back, I think after beating Michigan, am not having to look
at Ken Palm. Like we took the number one
ranking back and then immediately lost at Illinois to
some crazy. Like if bound play at the last
second and it's like, oh man, we can't even get a run where we
get a couple weeks, like you look at Purdue this year.
This is an example of a team where like they lost, you know,
to Rutgers when they win four in a row, they lose Wisconsin.
And they lose to Indiana. It's like, oh people are
starting to get a little nervous like this team.
Have what it takes and like, boom, they just had a month now
or it's like, we're just crushing people, like we'd be
I'll we crushed Michigan, we crushed Illinois.
Like they are in that mode of their feeling great and to your
point on the culture. We just haven't had that for 10
years. And really, for 20 years.
We've had like a one-year stretch where it's wild to think
that we haven't had a 20 day calendar, stretch where anybody
feels good. I'm not talking like feel good.
Like we're going to go to the final four.
Like I'm talking like, I feel like we're going to finish fifth
in the Big Ten and be a seven seed in the tournament like just
feeling like Like that for 20 days, I haven't had that in
seven or eight years. So, to your point, that culture
isn't there. And so yeah, for players, like
teams that have that, are teams that have cultures, where it's
like, hey, we got to go to Northwestern, do some work, like
we got to put together five. We got to beat Purdue and then
we got to get focused on the next game, which is in you'll 72
hours and that takes team that has a culture of doing that.
And we just don't have that. I mean, fan base doesn't have
that. Well, I mean, look, I'll just
I'll keep it on the team stuff. Look.
Go back and look at the last three years prior to this of IU
basketball, you know, it's a team that lost it was a 12 of
13, between January 6th and February 22nd back in 2019 and
2020, you know that team loses five of six and then three of
their last four in January and February and early, March lat.
What last year's team lost their last six games and seven of
their last eight games. And, you know, I, I don't know.
What's going to happen with this year?
This you know, they've lost their last two games.
You got Five Guys, suspended for a key Road game.
This just feels suspended for Michigan State, as I know no
fraud. No, I was talking about the
Northwestern game, like the file.
Okay. Sorry.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know of anybody suspended for Michelle.
Like it dark for Michigan's that was kind of like a, we don't
know, but I but you know, but I guess my point is I'm looking at
the suspensions is essentially just a proxy for the same issue,
which is, I don't know what it is.
But this team like gets bored with being successful in
February and is like it'd be a lot more.
On if we were just not successful and it's like to play
on Thursday in the Big, Ten Tournament.
Yeah, let's make sure we're playing on Wednesday, but it up
on losing. So look, there's only so much
you can say about all of this because you've got a whole
section of the fan base, who I think, is, is titillated by the
idea that who there's discipline being needed out.
And it's like that kind of misses the point here.
It really does. Like, it's there is what appears
from the outside to be a battle going.
Going on over how this team is going to conduct itself.
And ultimately I think the coaching staff certainly isn't
perfect. But I think a coaching staff is
looking at this and saying there's a problem with the
culture and it's hard to look at the IU coaching staff and not
think these people know what they're talking about because
it's, you know, it's not just Mike Woodson, who's been
coaching for 30 years. And yes, this is his first time
in college, but it's not like it's the first time Woodson's
dealt with young basketball players before.
But you've also got Dana Fife on staff who What a good culture is
because he's been in one for the last decade.
Plus, you've got fad, Mata who certainly did a pretty good job
of building, a winning culture at Ohio, State on the, on the
bench, you know, and I don't, I can't speak as much to Hunter
and Roseman, but I'm sure that they're conscious of what a good
culture is supposed to look like.
But it doesn't matter unless the players care about it and I just
yeah, I just don't. I think the players care about
winning. I think they care about the you
know, the vague. Depth of being on a winning team
but what appears to occur with the limited information we have
here is that that doesn't seem to carry over into do this and
do this and do this. And, you know, these are the
rules that we have set within the confines of the program, in
terms of how you're supposed to act and unfortunately for IU,
you know, I mean you would get disciplinary actions again,
taken like, in the night era or whatever and It was, it was a
different era of basketball where you could take a guy out
or take a couple of people out for breaking a rule.
But because you had so much success around the program.
It didn't negatively affect your recruiting and, you know, you
still were able to win enough games to get to NCAA tournament.
Everybody's able to like learn their lesson and do.
So in a way that still contributes to winning
basketball games. I don't think that's the case
right now because there's, there's no, there's no normal to
reset to, like, the normal for this, I Team is a death spiral
that lasts the entire last third of the season.
And so, you know, it's so that's sad.
That's, that's where I'm at with it.
Where again. I just I hear this and I think,
you know, I know I'm supposed to get mad and I know I'm supposed
to get fired Up For What Woodson's doing.
And look I appreciate what the coaching staff seems to be
trying to do here because I think anybody that's being
honest with themselves. Would look at this.
I you program and say for many years stretching back through
the Miller era into the Korean era.
The culture hasn't been what it needs to be to sustain success,
but that's not just on the coaches, that's on the players.
And that's on the players that you recruit and IU has not
recruited the types of players over the course of the last
several years that come in, with that mentality.
That is like, look, we have a job to do and we have a set of
rules that we need to follow in order to be successful.
And, you know, that's again, it's not to denigrate individual
players from a talent perspective.
But I do think mentality wise, that's the difference between
winning teams and teams that end up coming up short.
And, you know, I mean someone I forget I might have been jQuery,
you know. As the they've been a lot of the
indymedia have been understandably, praising Purdue
and look. Produce got a lot of good
players, but Purdue has built a culture that is enviable because
they do seem to have players that are really dedicated, not
just to playing good basketball. All and winning games but doing
so in a manner that is sustainable and where there's a
core culture of success. And that's ultimately, I think
what people are looking for with IU basketball, just feels like
we're a long way away from that at this point.
Yeah. So anyway with that said, let's
reset worry Indiana's at with everything.
So they lose the game something that's been notable.
I think over the course of the last not just the last two
games. But really, I think you could
say, you know, four of the last five games is Indiana's, offense
has. Yes, go ahead.
You know, you say we were saying cuz I okay.
I think you're just a Indiana's. Offense is falling off a cliff.
I don't know if anybody's been monitoring this, but Indiana was
hovering around somewhere between the 65 and 75 Mark in
can Palm in terms of offensive efficiency.
There are 106 now and that's really only about a four game.
Change Indiana's offense is drop-down efficiency wise in
conference play to 12th out of 14.
Only Penn State and Nebraska are worse right now and then
Actually, Minnesota is better than Indiana.
Maryland who doesn't have a functioning coach essentially at
this point is better in conference play and he had his
defense has been very good. They've certainly doubled down
on that. But you know, whether you've got
a full complement of players like Indiana did against
Illinois or a nun. Full complement of players is
they did against Northwestern. The offense is about the same.
It's not efficient. They're not hitting shots
particularly. Well, they're not getting good
shots and that is As concerning to me as anything, perhaps
borrow the cultural issues that Indiana's got.
This is a team that's forgetting how to score at.
Exactly The Wrong Time of the Season.
That should be a red alert. Issue to everybody even above
and beyond all the other items that we've talked about so far
today. When I think part of that goes
into what I have noticed in kind of been looking at is that, you
know, you can kind of draw a line since.
Trace Jackson Davis had that, you know, hip or injury against
Nebraska. He's been a different place
watching him. He looks like he's missing a
step or a spark, and he might still be injured.
So, I'm taking this very lightly and he's still injured.
You know, I appreciate him playing injury.
I don't want him to play and get more hurt, but I will say, you
look at the end of the 2021. See.
And, you know, he had his, he had a couple of games where he
had a 70 offensive rating against Michigan, like an 85
against Purdue 94 gets Michigan state competition.
Got better. But, you know, he had an 84
against Northwestern and February February.
The he has a history of you, kind of run them like a car in
the red line throughout the whole year and then he starts to
slow down at the end of the year.
And this has been something that has been talked about in a lot
of different venues. You know, our offense is still
kind of just pump the ball in the trace and let's see what
happens. And let's use him a lot.
He was getting some Pretty high minute loads in the beginning of
the year against some teams that maybe we didn't need to be using
him for. And you do wonder where this
lays up and, you know, no question.
He had an offensive rating against 76 against Purdue.
We had foul trouble there. But I mean, his last two games,
you know, 67 offensive rating. It's Illinois, 92 against
Northwestern, even the game against, you know, Penn State
and Maryland. He's not super efficient as he
normally is. You have to wonder if he's
healthy Or if, if he's been used too much or the other, you know,
concerning thing too is just, you know, is there a limit?
You know, when he goes up against a team, like, Purdue or
Illinois? That has another top-level big
man. He has not done well, and so,
you know, it's one of those three things, but none of them
are good because if he's just, if he's a notch below, that's
not good. Because our whole offense runs
through him, if we've run him too much, the beginning of the
year. That's not good.
Because you can't go back and get that time and if he's still
Injured and just is he's not going to get back to the level.
He was you know pre North Nebraska game.
That's not good because our offense does not seem to have a
real other option outside of him that other option is Xavier
Johnson, which that's also not as efficient as we all want, you
know, just doesn't really have that other.
I mean, race Thompson has been steady, but we don't he seems to
be more like you just get your points in the flow of the game
and and there's nothing that gets run for him.
So I look at Tres Jackson Davis as kind of He's not, he is it's
not the problem, but everything gravitates around that and he's
not been playing well and that causes problems this entire team
because this entire team is focused on him, having good
games. Well, I think that the last part
is the big one. I would not go so far as to say,
he's had bad games. Now the last two games he's had
you know that he has. I mean the Illinois game was an
obvious exception, but he let me know in the Northwestern game.
He had the best game of anybody on the floor for either team.
Yeah, and you know, he did that. Yes.
I know he missed shots. He missed free throws, but he
racked up a double double on the road playing. 39 minutes with
essentially, nobody to come in Off, the Bench, to spell him.
And, but I think what you said is exactly correct.
When your whole offensive success pattern is predicated
on. Trace Jackson Davis scoring
somewhere between 15 and 25 points per game and he's not
able to do that. There is no second option on
this team. And I, you know, the I point the
finger a lot more at, you know, where is the support for tres
Jackson, Davis from other people on the team and I don't even
know that it's necessarily a matter of blaming the offense.
I mean the And certainly could be better in spots.
But you look around. I think race Thompson has done
his best to try to contribute. But where is Miller cop?
You know, I mean Miller cop starting in a game at the place
that he transferred from managed to throw up a 14-7 on the game
with essentially. I mean, he rebounded a little
bit but his job is to score particularly in a game like you
had on Tuesday where you don't have your starting point guard
who also happens to be. Be your second best offensive
player on most nights, and you don't have your shooting guard.
Where's Mueller cop? Like where's the shots with?
Like this is what you're there for that was cops 16th
consecutive game in single digits.
That's not a winning formula. I mean like and and Parker
Stewart, frankly. Let's all remember this next
this offseason when we talk about another Big Ten transfer,
right, who does but ya know to your point.
I'm not just real quick. It's a cop was one from five
four, three, like if your three is not hitting go down.
Something else, but he was 0 for 2 from the rent, you know, from
inside three. It's like to me, it's like, I'm
fine with him going. 14443 people can miss shots.
Like, it's people, Miss, open shots, but what bugs me is, when
you don't then change, like, why doesn't he have eight more
attempts inside of each of them deck?
Screw this, I'm gonna go post up.
I'm gonna get the ball inside to get it on, you know, right in
the free-throw line. And I'm going to shoot from
there, but that didn't happen. It's just he kept on taking more
threes and only took two other shots.
Yeah. I mean, you know, you can, you
can Levy that criticism against Parker Stewart as Well, who has
been in not particularly visible?
In terms of his offense in a lot of games.
He'll pop up for a few possessions and then disappear
and so offensively. All right.
That's as we, and we've talked about this on the show before.
That's a couple of people that you really need to be relying on
to not just score their starters, but to open up the
floor for tres Jackson, Davis, and it just isn't happening and
I don't buy the idea that it is a matter of not.
In place for those folks. I know we have a running debate
going with are back home, partner, Ryan Phillips on this a
little bit, you know, the curl actions and things like that to
get those guys open. I mean half the time.
They don't look intending. They look like they don't intend
to shoot once they get the ball in the first place.
So it's as much a mentality thing as anything else with this
team, and it's frustrating when you watch it, because we've
watched enough bad offense with Indiana basketball over the
course of the last several years.
There looked like there was real hope.
Hope towards the start of the Big Ten season that this IU team
had maybe figured out a formula that would work in terms of how
they were going to play offense. And unfortunately, what we've
seen from this team for the most part over these last few weeks
is that they're kind of going the opposite direction.
It's hard to give them a huge amount of credit for the good
offensive games that they did have because they came against
Penn State and Maryland. Neither of whom are teams that
are doing, particularly great things, you know, on the season.
I mean, Penn State's been okay on defense.
But Maryland certainly has not. It's like, yes, of course,
you're going to look good on offense.
It guns those teams. But when you you play the
Illinois's or you're playing a team like, you know Northwestern
who's definitely shown some spark here lately.
It's it's just not sufficient and there doesn't seem to be a
secondary answer. You know, I don't know that it's
a foregone conclusion that if Indiana had had the five players
that were suspended from Northwestern that they would
have wanted anyway, because frankly even though fatigue was
clearly a factor in the In half for the Hoosiers, the offense
has been perfectly capable of junking itself up with everybody
available in on the floor in some previous games.
So, you know, it's important not to overreact.
But I also think it's important to look at the team and say
look, they're not going to survive into the tournament.
Living off of Defense. Defense is great.
You have to have defense has a beginning point, but you're not
going to win enough games to get into the tournament.
Unless you can also score the basketball consistently.
And if you're going to put all of that weight on Trace Jackson,
Davis Trace Jackson. Davis is not going to be able to
carry that weight by himself. He's not that kind of player and
whether it's the injury that he suffered, that still creating
issues for him or whether it's simply a matter of.
When you stick your entire defense in the post and are
like, well, we're just going to guard Trace Jackson, Davis
really hard and you're gonna have to find another way to win.
Indiana hasn't shown that they can find another way to win
consistently. This point.
And so I worry about that because it's not like the
schedule getting any, is getting any easier.
As they move forward. Indiana's, only played the 12th
toughest schedule in the conference up to this point.
And they've really if you look at their schedule moving
forward, they've they've got three games that you would
think. Oh, well, they should win given
their relative rankings and Ken Palm which would get them to 10
wins in conference. But that is if they lose all the
other games which they very well could Good, that's a lot of
losing down the stretch and that does worry me both in terms of
the mentality of the team heading into March, and also
just the overall momentum. That seem to be building with
the program. You hope that they were going to
be able to push through this and finish the season strong.
It sure. Kind of looks like they could
end up going the opposite direction at this point.
Well, into your point, you know, looking ahead on the Ken Palm
stuff. Like let's just, you know, play
a little bit of speculation, but it's very possible.
They could lose the next three games.
I mean, at Michigan, state is a very tough game, Wisconsin.
And home is a tough. Hope game and then at Ohio State
is a very tough road game and then yes, it looks like.
All right, you have Maryland, Minnesota and Rutgers after that
but we, you know, you can look at Ken Palm deco case.
We lose three win three. And that's how we get to ten
wins. But the history has shown us
something different to your point on the culture of this
team, the history and culture of this team is that when things
start to slide we don't Have the E brake to stop things, like,
when things start to slide, they slide and we've seen a history.
Were three game losing streak. Suddenly turn into four game,
losing streaks, and games. You like.
Oh shit. We just lost a, you know,
Minnesota, like it's just all of a sudden, you know, a three-game
losing streak turns into a six-game losing streak and
that's been the history of this team.
The last seven, eight years and that's been to your point, the
death spiral and that's what scares me.
This is, this is a situation where you have a team where we
don't know how these players are going to react to these.
Is they going to come back harder?
They just came back and, you know, and then how are they
going to react after coming back and then getting their teeth
kicked in to out of the next three games and it's like that's
going to suck it. Like that's what really worries
me is. Yes.
Theoretically, we should win, Maryland Minnesota, Rutgers that
gets us to 10 wins that gets us to 10 and 10 and we're still in
a good spot. But, you know, I'm nervous.
How you get there after losing three in a row and now you've
basically, you get 2 Feb. 24th and you've had a month since
your last win, you've had three or four weeks since you've had a
win. In that time, people has been
suspended, feelings have been hurt, people are pissed.
Hopefully, they brought those fractures back, but that's a lot
to put on a game against Maryland.
Like, you're just, you're putting all of that.
And then now it's like those are those are must-win games because
by the way, I'm not, you know, I'm a big look ahead guy, but I
will say this Saturday March Fifth, you're going to lose.
I love I you I want I you to win all games.
You're not winning that game at Purdue like this.
That game is not a victory. So like you have a loss, a tough
loss coming up at the end of the season.
So you got six games. You got to win three.
I mean, I wouldn't write any game off at this point.
We've seen stranger things happen in some of these.
I don't know. Just look, here's the thing.
All right, the the, we just watched Wisconsin, win at
Michigan State. We, you know, we we've watched
We watched Ohio State lose to Rutgers after leading the whole
game last night. I mean, there's, I don't think
any game is off the table for this Indiana team.
And look, I think this Indiana team if they're, if they're
properly motivated and they're playing at maximum potential can
actually beat anybody in the Big Ten on anybody's for the larger
question for me is something you said earlier, which is what is
the overall reaction and how do the players decide that they're
going to finish out the season because Ultimately, and this is
where the, you know, the new realities of college basketball
enter into play. You could simply say, as a
player. Well, look, I'm just going to
finish out the season. Try to get the best statistics
that I can. And then I'm going to go
transfer somewhere else which everybody's got a right to do
that. But that's where ultimately the
culture conversation comes back into play, right of no culture
and caring about the universities.
Like I'm I'll get mine. Yeah, you know, so we'll see and
I look i-i'm not. Not putting any expectations on
the team one way or the other. I hope they come out strong and
and play well, in these next couple of games because we know
that they can. It's just a question of whether
they will, and this is going to be an interesting challenge for
the coaching staff and Woodson in particular because he's on
the one hand. He's managed to establish
himself as the guy that's looking out for the players on
the other hand. He's also trying to establish
himself as the guy who is policing the culture.
That's a very difficult spot to have put oneself.
And and it it can blow up on you if you're not careful.
So, we'll see what happens. I'm really curious more than
anything else at this point, but I got to say, This is where my
level of emotional investment and IU basketball every year,
has kind of taken a nosedive because ultimately, and look at,
and again, I'm just a guy here watching the games.
I'm not, I'm not here to make moral pronouncements on players,
which I know that's, that's red meat.
For a lot of the IU fan base. That's, that's what a lot of
them live for. I people make mistakes.
It's fine. Ultimately, the product on the
court, is the ultimate Arbiter of what's going on.
The program. And that's where I'm the most
curious to see what the reactions are and how they
handle these things. And that's going to be what we
watch. The next couple of games.
As far as the rest of the season is concerned, Scott.
Look, I mean, everybody's got their own sets of problems
within this conference and Indiana, certainly blew a game
that would have been very nice to have but realistically they
are still there. Close to the top half of the
conference. It's hard to get a real good
bead on. What?
Exactly The Indiana needs to do moving forward because there's
so many teams that have to make up games and you are playing
games at odd times. So, you know, at this point it's
it's a situation where Indiana's got three very tough games in
the next three at Michigan state, Wisconsin at home at Ohio
State. And I don't know that any of
those are must win, but if Indiana wins any of those games,
it to some degree, just basically cancels out the loss
that they they sell phone at Northwestern.
And I think that it is a realistic possibility that they
could win one or multiple of those games.
So I'm not tempted at this point to jump off the ledge and say
well the seasons over or you know, God they got to get the
other three wins because they certainly aren't going to get
these next three. I will say this.
I think that lineup wise I don't know what this, I you team
really does moving forward, any different.
I know a lot of people. Yeah, we've been getting a lot
of calls for start tray Galloway and you know, why is, you know,
put Galloway in for cop. I mean to be fair Woodson did
change the starting lineup against Northwest, he did that's
true even nobody nobody can say that he didn't change the
starting lineup, you know, but as we as we dive into the the
lineup argument philosophically, yes Miller cops shouldn't be
starting he's not Contributing nearly enough on offense and he
hasn't particularly in contributing on defense either.
The problem is, if you talk about straight line UPS here,
over the course of the next several games.
You still don't have Rob fantasy like Rod fantasy is still not, I
don't know if I'm finishing, a play again this year.
I mean, it's possible that he could but it didn't sound from
Woodson's last press conference. Like he was particularly close
and Christian Lander has not shown an ability to stay on the
floor. Still.
I mean the the sample size minutes Wise from him.
Is it? I mean, it's just it's not
great. He's still turning the ball over
on 40% of the possessions that he uses.
I mean, it's just it's a disaster when he's on the floor
generally and he, you know, when he's done good things, it's been
back followed up by doing things that are detrimental.
He's so if you have to hold on, Russell Big, Ten player, so
yeah, so if, if you're not, if you can't effectively play land
or minutes, how do you start who you know Galloway?
Who's essentially your second point guard?
When those guys have to come out who comes in, this is this is
where I really do by the idea that you'd rather have a
stronger line up a little later in the game.
You'd rather get you're going to get 30 minutes out of trade
Galloway. I'd rather use those 30 minutes
in the last 35 minutes of the game as opposed to the first 35
minutes of the game. These guys are not robots and
you can't just throw people out there who are, you know,
complete mismatch. Actress for what you need to do
on the floor. The offense is bad enough as it
is. I don't know that maybe it gets
better for small stretches, but then it gets worse for different
stretches than it's been up to this point.
So, it certainly, you know, I think the idea of who Indiana is
going to have on the floor, is one that people have talked
about quite a bit, but I also haven't seen anything in terms
of where the lineups at right now without Rob that would make
me think that you could afford to essentially start to point
guards and then have nobody. That is channel in Big Ten play
being able to come off the bench and play that position.
Yeah, I agree with you. It's similar to what we what I
said last time like it you could bring Galloway up but it kills
your second unit. I have a question for you.
Just a large picture question, you know, we in our preview
podcast with somebody call. I've been thinking about this.
One of the things we asked everyone to go around and do was
make a bold prediction for the year.
And I probably as I always do cheat these things a little bit
ever. You know, I think yours is like
Indians can be a double by in the Big Ten Tournament
everybody. I didn't say that.
Yes action. I remember mine was we're going
to make the NCAA tournament. Everybody's like, that's not
bow. Like what like and to be fair.
It wasn't bold. But I sit here now being like, I
stand by my bold prediction, but and I don't mean to shout out
Ryan Phillips again, our friend, but he's been on this train.
I'm going to use him as kind of a corollary for a lot of people
who were there. Shout out to Ryan at hashtag or
at rumors rants. He's been saying Indiana has to
make the NCAA tournament this year.
That's been kind of his corner. I'm curious your thoughts on
that were I sit? I'll just really quickly give
you my take is I don't think there's a hard-line the saying
to me. It's a little more.
I just need to see this team play hard.
And by the way, they can play hard the next three games and
lose because those are all, you know, at Michigan State.
It's not like we have a long history of winning it in East
Lansing. They can play hard and lose the
next three games and I can feel okay.
Like I what I don't want to see is this team kind of check out
and go into the deaths. Viral.
Like, I don't want that. I feel like this team can play
hard. Not make the NCAA tournament.
I don't think it's the end of the world for recruiting.
Like, all the pieces are not going to fall down.
I think making the NIT would be very nice thing to do at least
as a minor piece, but I'm I'm not so much in the they have to
make the NCAA tournament this year.
I think, I think you can get by this year with look they played
really hard to finish the stretch.
It was a tough schedule. You can do some some some kind
of messing around with things there.
But I'm curious your thoughts on that.
It would be a real embarrassment.
If this team didn't make the NCAA tournament now, would it
have a outsized effect on recruiting?
I met not in this upcoming class.
But look, I think you have to show some progress and you have
to show some momentum to Future players.
You have to be able to not just sell them on the vision.
You have to sell them on, something they can see and if
they say if what they're seeing is a Another year a, what a
sixth straight year of not making the NCAA tournament.
How do you really distinguish yourself from say, Penn State or
Minnesota on the recruiting Trail?
Fair Point Fair Point, you know, so look, I mean from a fan base
perspective. I think the fans are going to be
patient, you know, because I think ultimately they more
people than not believe in the direction of the program at the
certainly, there's people that have questions still and maybe
that's realistic. From a functional managerial
perspective. I think this team probably does
need to get to the NCAA tournament because it's it is a
matter of saying well, we made some progress this year.
Imagine how much we're going to make next year and then that's
what you're going to come into as a player.
And ultimately that's what matters free for any basketball
team. How do you get?
Good players better players than you currently have players with
both skill and winning mentality.
How do you get those players to come and play for your
basketball? Program.
And I don't think you do that by saying, well, you know, we
tried, but we ended up in the NIT.
So I do actually disagree with you here a little bit.
I think this is something that I knew needs to do.
Anyway, before we wrap up, we wanted to hit some numbers for
the NCAA tournament and that as with all of our numbers
discussions is brought to you by the power rank.
The power rank is a delightful newsletter and resource for
those of you interested in the smarter side of A sports
wagering, but just the general understanding of what's going on
in the world of college, basketball college, football, Ed
Fang. Who is our friend?
That does the power rank with some PhD level insights on all
kinds of aspects of what's going on with college, basketball
college, football puts out, a nice March Madness guide, that
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to few weeks, I guess. So, check out the power rank.com
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So Indiana right now, believe it or not, didn't really get hurt
that much by that Northwestern game in terms of its overall
profile. It would have been a nice
booster to have gotten that game.
But realistically speaking, Indiana, barely dropped in the
net. Ranking, their 35th.
That's the official NCAA metric that they use to compare
resumes, Indiana 2 and 5 on the road, they do.
A third win away from home. That was that neutral Court win
against Notre Dame, which between you and me is looking a
little bit better. These days that Notre Dame team
is weirdly enough leading the ACC.
They're 10 and 3 in conference. So far other numbers of note for
Indiana for Quad 1, plus quad 2 wins 2 quad one wins 2.
Quad 2 wins, that doesn't sound like a whole lot, but it's in
line with a lot of other teams that are going to be vying.
Four at-large births potentially, in the NCAA
tournament by comparison, you know, you look at a team like
Loyola Chicago who certainly right in the thick of the the 89
seed range. They've got four wins again
Squad 1 quad to competition, Indiana certainly trailing a few
other programs in terms of being competitive in those areas, but
not by a tremendous. Margin, Ohio State's got six of
those wins. Iowa has got three or four of
those wins overall and so on. So forth, so still time for
Indiana to pick up some victories and, you know, thirty
four, Thirty fifth isn't great, but that will certainly get you
an at large bid, Indiana looking forward.
I still think if they get to 1920 wins in the regular season
and then can add a win or two in the Big Ten Tournament is going
to be fine. You know, I think the dreams of
a six seed or something along those lines are pretty much gone
unless they really make some hay here over the next couple of
weeks. Weeks.
But I still think that a seating in the eight nine, ten range
Navy down as far as 11. Well, within the prospects of
what this Indiana team can do. So, a lot of it really is going
to come down to how they play against these teams.
That at least from a statistical perspective, aren't viewed as
being that far superior to them. And and you look over these next
three games, Michigan State right now. 26 then Ken Palm
Indiana's 30. What?
39th right now in Candy, Pop, Wisconsin?
23rd and can Palm Ohio State 21st in Kent Farm, those are all
teams within Striking Distance of where Indiana is at right.
Now. You win games against those
teams, you're going to be viewed pretty positively, by the power
rankings. And then that's going to feed
over into how the NCAA tournament selection committee
feels feels about you. What's interesting to me is, you
know, in some of the other power metrics Indiana is actually
faring pretty well. They're still 16th and torvik,
largely because their defense has been so good and that That
is going to be an interesting thing to watch.
As we move forward, Indiana still favored in the power
rankings in four of their remaining seven games including
that home game versus Wisconsin. And so, if you can win the four
games that you're favored, for than Indiana finds themselves 11
and 9 in conference, which will put them in great shape as far
as the NCAA tournaments concerned.
So a lot of stuff writing obviously on these last seven
games, but that's really no different than any other season
Scott. You finds itself in a very
similar spot to where it's been the last few years except I
would argue in better shape overall than they were in any of
those Seasons. What they do with it.
The rest of the way is, certainly an open question, but
they've at least set themselves up to where they can do some
things and put themselves in a position to get into the
tournament, just to some degree by Treading Water, the rest of
the way. One of the best things about
this podcast and my time with you over our friendship has
been, you're helping me understand the NCAA bracket and
the Matrix and the rankings more and I was I always understood it
a little bit you understand it way more but I was never on this
side of it, but it is funny. I'll see people after are lost
in Northwestern even a couple of random friends like, oh well,
Indiana in the NIT. Now if you're not making the
tournament, it's like that's I feel like I'm sounding like you
now, like that's not how this works.
Looks like it's just it is it is funny.
How how naive? I don't know.
He's not the right way about how some people just don't fully
understand it and I was partially in that camp years
ago, but it's like, yeah, we're gonna even if we lose our next
two games, we're still going to be in the tournament.
Like we're still going to be seated there and part of its
base of just the way that the tournament looks at things.
But also it's like look at the team's you're like, look at go.
Look at Stanford. There there there on the bubble.
I think we're going to stay ahead of them.
It's like you don't need to be the fastest person, you have to
not be. The slowest.
If you don't wanna get eaten by the bear, like some of, it
depends on what the bubble looks like, but it is just been funny
seeing people. And part of this is due to the
fact that I think for Indiana fans.
We haven't dealt with being looking at bracket Matrix stuff
for years. So we're not used to it.
It's like oh, yeah that there's ways this work.
It's not just like, oh, you beat Purdue like we're in.
We're a to see. It's like doesn't work that way.
Like, you lose Northwest like, oh, we're out like, doesn't work
that way. Either.
What? I don't want to get back to is I
often joke that That that year with Archie.
We were on like the NIT bubble. That felt very dirty.
Like I almost felt like I was in the dark web like going on the
Silk Road like looking for nit, Bracketology sites.
Like that's where I started feeling really dirty in the web
like this. There's not a lot of nit
Bracketology sites. I don't want to get down there.
But yeah. No, I agree with all you said
and I would say if you haven't been there, the bracket Matrix
is like easily one of my favorite websites, this time of
year. Just go look at that.
Look at all those but just have fun looking at the Teams below
Indiana, some of those teams on the bubble and that'll make you
feel better over these next two weeks.
And we might lose a couple more games that, you know, we still
have that pedigree. We still have, you know, what it
takes to get there and like, everything you said is valve.
Yeah. I mean, it's just funny.
People are like, Oh north, North Western lost.
Like, you're in the NIT. It's like, doesn't doesn't work
that way. So this is a, it's a place that
Indiana has not been in a while. We are securely in the field
right now, but there's still things we have to do to keep
that going. We lose.
It's in a row in that does change.
Yeah. No, I mean, look, you have to
win games. Like, you can't finish the
season 7 7 and 13 or something like that in the conference.
Like they got to win games, but you look people, Nothing creates
over reaction more than I you losing and people loudly
declaring that they're going to lose every other game in the
conference because they lost this one and it's just not how
it works. It just isn't, I mean, go back
and look at previous Seasons. It just it's It doesn't work
that way, and I'm not taking go back and looking for reasons for
why you like, look at other teams that make the NCAA
tournament and they don't all finish on 10-game winning
streaks. You know, there's, it's a, it's,
it is meant to be a metric for the whole season and how you did
and there's a lot of things that you would have liked to have
seen. I you done doing better in this
season, but the reality is, they've done enough.
At this point to still be solidly in the field despite
losing at Northwestern. Which by the way, is not a bad
loss. It's Literally a bad loss.
But according to the computers who don't care about what
happened in the 1980s. It's a perfectly fine loss.
It's an understandable loss. So that's where I just think
people need to chill a little bit on things.
Anyway, we're going to wrap up as we're almost to the hour,
mark, any final thoughts before we finish things off.
Scott. No, I think we've hit everything
we're gonna hit today, but, no, well good.
I don't have anything either. So, we'll finish up and we'll
see the Hoosiers again in action.
This coming weekend. Fortunately, not a Super Bowl.
And a game, I actually kind of hate those but we do see them on
National Television on Saturday on Fox at 3:30 p.m.
As they travel to East, Lansing to take on a Michigan State
team. That is not exactly having a
textbook season themselves. A team that is has lost to
Rutgers by 20 and just lost at home by 8:00 to Wisconsin.
Also lost at home to Northwestern.
God. Imagine how that would have been
perceived and honestly Michigan State.
If you really look at their resume.
Is it particularly impressive? They have a win at Wisconsin?
They have a win on a neutral court against a Connecticut
team. That's pretty schizophrenic, and
a whole bunch of slop beyond that.
They actually look a lot like Indiana in many ways, except
they're much better on offense. And so the Hoosiers with the not
insurmountable task coming up this weekend, one that I would
still expect them, probably to lose but that there's no reason
why they shouldn't be at least competitive in that game.
So we'll keep an eye on that and see what happens.
And we'll be back, probably early next week to talk with you
once again about Indiana basketball.
And we'll talk a little IU football as well.
Perhaps, if there's some news there there, there was a little
bit of news, but we're going to save that for the next podcast
because everybody's overreacting to it.
Shockingly. Who knew that we might have our
reactions in the IU fanbase. Oh, thanks.
Anyway, thanks. All you folks for listening.
We enjoy talking to you as always hopefully you enjoy
listening for Scott. I'm Galen thanks to our
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Apparel. Thanks to all the fine folks who
listen into the back home. Network will catch you folks on
the flip side. So long everybody.