Salami hit the record button. Looks like it's working.
Okay, so we're going to start in five four, three.
You're listening to the back home network, presented by home
field apparel, you're also missing the Crimson cast what
happened to the theme music, you might be asking, well, there's a
tail there, which we won't tell right now.
This is what happens when Scott, and I get together live.
Yes, in person, she doesn't happen that often, but we're in
a different Studio. This is actually the TV's.
We did you just Longer records into?
Yeah, sounds like the sounds like like a Night Court.
Outtake says it. It's like this.
It's like a, you know, the 8:30 p.m.
Thursday NBC, sitcom sometimes very special night core, right?
Yes. George Clooney is a guest, you
know, this is pretty, ER Fame. Anyway, it's good to see you
guys first. We were talking to me, sorry
fans. All right.
Good to see the fans. Good to see.
I'm not seeing the fans. I am seeing you.
It's good to see you. How are you doing?
I'm doing fantastic. Mastic great, we're doing this
in the media school. This place is awesome.
I just tell me, I wish I was a student again to be able to go
to school here and do Medias. This is fantastic.
We're in the podcast studio. So we're still learning Mike's.
You got sounds, it's going to be great.
Yeah, there's so we've got a new board here and it's delightful.
But it is like piloting, a spaceship.
Having not been in a spaceship before, right?
I've, it's, like, I've flown V2. I like having a kid in the car
seat, right? Is that?
What's that? What's that?
Exactly. So yeah, we also have like
random sound effects, Which Scott is making me use during
this sharp. Yeah, that's the pulling my arm
sound. Anyway.
No. So, we have a lot to talk about.
We haven't had a chance to talk directly really since pre pre
season about IU football. So we're going to tackle that we
also want to tackle the big news of the day first, which I know a
lot of you are following along with which is this new Big Ten
media deal. We're going to talk about the
details of that. What it means.
What? It doesn't mean what the
implications are moving forward. So we'll tackle all those things
and I think we'll have fun doing it.
But first just a reminder that we are part of the back home
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they debuted their Penn State collection and they set a new
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My congratulations to both Penn State fans.
As and home field for that our home field.
Well, there you go, but we'll see.
They may have a second straight week of record-breaking, as
they're going to unleash, their Ohio State apparel.
And I just get a sneaking suspicion that the Ohio State
people may have the record broken in like the first six
hours the sale. It wouldn't surprise me at all.
They have a good number of fans that.
Yeah, there are a few I've run into the one or two of them out
in the wild, but if you love college apparel, you need to be
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And you actually can chop home-field apparel here on
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The favorite thing I have is the Marshal hooded sweatshirt.
Just, I love the Marshall. When I have a couple of West
Virginia ones, it's did the hooded sweatshirt is the best.
Might have the Bison. One, I'm getting some feedback.
Oh, there we go. That's smooth.
I had to turn my know. My own one down.
Okay, I give yourself a give yourself a sound effect for that
you did good. Hold on.
Yeah, there we go. Fans are loving the.
Sweatshirts are the best. I have way too many hooded
sweatshirts and I continue to say, alright, I'm done.
Like we're redoing our closets. We're doing the alpha system.
Our house and it's nice but it's like I don't have any more room
for sweatshirts but then I will see a new look.
I'll just kind of go through the site to see who Colorado School
of Mines. Like, that's a cool look and
there that it's you know, another 80 bucks down and as
you've mentioned, many times I don't have the promo code.
So use that first promo code. It is uses use it wisely by a
bunch then? Yes, just to maximize the deal.
Go on Twitter but can put an order in with my co.
Like, who wants in Ryan? Just just, yeah, well, maybe
don't do that but that, but anyway.
No. Anyway, Move on.
Let's talk about this big ten deal.
Yes to start with. This has been rumored for a
while and we've most of the details had kind of leaked out
by the time. This finally became public
knowledge but you know. Now we've got some stuff to
actually work with an eight billion dollar deal.
I believe was the final number that they landed on and it
equates out to about one point one four billion dollars per
year spread across the teams in the conference of 14.
Right now, it'll be 16 in a couple of years and it's a lot.
Money and it puts big ten games from various Sports on a bunch
of different Outlets. You've got NBC involved with Big
Ten stuff for the first time in decades, you get CBS, who's at
basketball. But as I Big Ten football in
maybe ever and certainly not, it's been decades.
Yeah. So you're going to have football
back on CBS for the Big Ten. Yes.
You're going to have stuff on peacock, you're gonna have stuff
on Paramount. Plus you're still going to have
Big Ten Network, you know, heh. Jess one, no ESPN in this deal
and that had been something that we pretty much knew was going to
be the case. Unfortunately, from the
standpoint of the way that television deals are working in
college sports. There's still a lot of side
choosing that takes place, so it's not a surprise that you're
not going to have ESPN involved because the Big Ten is very much
connected with Fox and they've allowed Fox to run the
negotiations and it's good business sense as far as the big
Ten's concerned. But overall, You've seen the
news. You had a chance to digest the
little bit. What are your overall thoughts?
The best thing that happened was CBS, put out a great thing on
Twitter like they have like their, their CBS college
football music with all like, it's like the big names big
stages and have clips of all the, the Big Ten teams.
I was happy two things. One that Indiana made it.
There is clips of Indiana and it be had to dig for those.
Well, we made it ahead of I was worried.
They were gonna do it like with UCLA and USC.
Just cut us out like us in Northwestern just aren't part of
the height video. Like we made the height video,
which I think should be like that's, you know, I work.
With half a win for this season. So we're kind of starting the
year, you know, half and oh, it's like, hey, we're in the
hype video, like that. Maybe give us a half a banner
Memorial Stadium. It, this is going to you.
And I were talking like, I don't think not, you know, the
headline here I'm hearing like, you know, add weeks like the big
thing is like, the deal does not occur, not include ESPN.
Like first off, like they did a good job of carving, it out a
couple different ways but, you know, they can't give it to
everybody so. So there's going to be a major
player that's not in there. I don't think not being mean.
It'd be great to be on ESPN, but I don't think ESPN holds the
same way that you used to. And I don't think it's bad.
I think that to me, that the real key here is, I like the CBS
afternoon slot because that's kind of become the afternoon for
football. But I do think that NBC on
Saturday night, could be really interesting because for the NFL,
which says the media king their NBC Sunday night football, has
become the premier game of the week and so MBC promotes this
together. As like, Like, we have the
weekend of football, we have Saturday night if they start
promoting next week, Saturday night game during Sunday Night
Football, you're going to get some huge numbers and it's going
to be, you know, great. I don't think Indiana will be a
part of anything Saturday nights from the, from the early on.
We don't know. We played play a lot of good
teams, Scott, you know, so there's always a chance.
Hey, let's order a 44, 27 beat down.
So, you gonna call? I mean, you know, we all know
who we're gonna call on that. No, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. But no, it's a couple things I
want to pick up on that. That first is the ESPN piece
because a lot of people have looked at this and everything
from, this is a sign of the glow of the growing commercialization
and split in college athletics that he has pan isn't a partner
of the Big Ten for the first time, in 30 plus years to which
my response is yes. And right, like I mean of
course, things are changing significantly.
But I think people that have looked at this as a significant
negative for the Big Ten, there's a lot of people still
think about the NHL and when the NHL L in, I think 2005 Post
strike, they're coming out of their ESPN has dropped them.
They're no longer part of the package and so they end up on
one of the time was the outdoor life Network and then that turns
into NBC Sports Network and then they're on, you know, big NBC
and and ESPN went from being the primary hockey people who
covered hockey consistently on SportsCenter.
Whatever it had its own NHL Tonight Show to nothing.
Well that was, it was a different era because that era
it's still very much Mattered, what was on SportsCenter?
It's still very much mattered that you had a show that
specifically focused on what you as a conference or as a
professional sports organization.
We're doing. But that was 15 years ago, it
all more than that, you know? And and what you've got now, is
a media environment where people are not by and large, if they're
under the age of 40 or 45, they're not flip going home and
turn it on SportsCenter or turn on ESPN at 5 and watch him,
like, around the horn PTI, SportsCenter special.
SportsCenter game. She's not the way that people
consume events at this point. They'll watch games.
If it involves the team that they want but they're getting
their highlights from Twitter. They're getting their highlights
on Instagram there, they're not hanging on ESPN's every word on
their website. There's other sources of getting
information and so it's it's going to be a new thing and
certainly we'll see if it's about size impact but I just
don't think that the Big Ten even if they had stayed
partnered. With ESPN was going to ever get
the same level of promotion and coverage is the SEC because that
is the conference that ESPN has thrown themselves fully into bed
with and you know, they are the ones that run the SEC network.
They're the ones that went out of their way to bid on the
entire SEC package and get it entirely within the ESPN
universe. So the idea that the Big Ten
should have maintained a toe in that when they didn't have to
and they could make this much money outside of it.
I think that that idea was probably not a good one.
Well, I also look at like, you and I are some of the few and
only IndyCar fans in the world, you know?
For a long time. I'll be brief on this because
nobody cares about IndyCar, 'but you.
And I and like three other people, you know, but for the
longest time, as I see it, you know, you had to keep on ABC for
the Indy 500 because you got to keep ESPN.
You got to keep IndyCar on SportsCenter and they never
promoted into your car. And then, you know, they went to
NBC IndyCar, went to NBC is their primary package just like
you're basically on the EU you're on ESPN and you're on
Sports and about As you were before like the races in
Nashville and you know st. Louis like there's only being
covered. The nice thing here.
For the Big Ten is like a Ohio State, Michigan game is going to
be covered whether an immediate will get as much coverage but
it's like you're the Big Ten is going to have teams in the top
five and SportsCenter. Can't not have, you know, a big
you know, Penn State, Ohio State matchup and they're going to
cover it. And so you're kind of covered
both ways like Indy car. At least they were worried about
like we're such a fringe sport. We're not going to cover will
guess what? ESPN is going to cover the best
sports in. We're going to have Biased for
things that are already under their media purview.
But the nice thing here, with the Big Ten is, you're always
going to have top five teams. It's like you have a, you know,
the the Iowa Penn State matchup last year.
They're both ranked in the top 10, it's like ESPN's.
Not going to be like. Alright let's go to Van, talk
about, Vanderbilt highlights, and like, was there any other
games? We go think so.
All right, over to you PTI like they're going to talk about it
by my question to you is, are you as you see this done?
This is still a very old meteorites.
You know, Legacy partners. Are you Is there wasn't an
Amazon? We heard about Apple going in
there? Are you surprised that, you
know, something wasn't carved off for a non-traditional
player? I'm not because I think that can
always be worked into the deal later.
First of all, like, you can always if you really wanted to
do a game of the week on Apple or Amazon, you could, you could
do it even with this deal. Like, I don't think I mean,
apple or Amazon. We have to pay to sublicense,
they can do that. But, thank ya there.
That's the stuff they find in their couch.
Cushions. Right.
But, you know, I do think that it is kind.
Of a new media deal even though the brand names are old.
Because when you go through and you look at the actual details
of the agreement, peacock is huge in this one plus, you know,
Paramount plus is going to be involved in some way shape or
form. You know, you go through and
look at that. So for instance, Every CBS
broadcast of a big ten football or basketball game will also be
streamed on Paramount plus. So even if you're in a position
where you're not able to watch the network version, you're
going to be able to watch it on that.
For NBC NBC itself, is going to do 14 to 16 games on broadcast
television but then they're also going to Simon stream that on
peacock and peacock is going to have what 47 regular-season,
men's basketball games, 30 regular-season, women's
basketball games, and eight regular season, football games
over the course of each season. Well, that's about as New Media,
as you get. Like, I think just some degree
you have to think about, it's not just the brands, it's the
venue through which the media is being transmitted and right now
NBC and, you know, this is an IndyCar fan and BC needs
peacock. Yes.
Stuff like they, you know, they need content and the can't get
by with office reruns for the Now, for all eternity, do they
really they really cannot and this gives them something
regular. Yeah, that's going to have a lot
more appeal, because you think about the properties that NBC's
able to do I mean they do the multicast on peacock for rent
for Sunday Night Football. Have you ever watched that?
No, no, no, either by it. Cuz he why it's on television
already and then they got IndyCar which you and I watch
and as you said, we're like 75 percent of India's entire
fanbase you've got the Olympics which when they're around.
Round is great, but that is what two weeks, every two years
crack, and that's it and and yet Notre Dame football and you know
this year they announced that the game that they're putting on
peacock is Notre Dame UNLV. Who I think you and I had the
same number of wins as UNLV did in college football last year.
Like these are not top-level products that they're putting on
peacock. They have to have some premium
stuff. I mean, this is what he has fans
done really well with plus over the last six or seven years is
that they have acquired rights to That people want to watch,
maybe not in huge numbers, but enough that they would
subscribe. So, German soccer, for a while,
Italian CFC UFC, you know, they stick all the secondary and
tertiary CC and SEC stuff on ESPN plus.
Well, NBC needs to get involved in that.
And, and, you know, it's what I find fascinating.
And what I'm curious about is like, how all of that interacts
with the existing web properties for like big 10 plus, or What
fox does they don't do a whole lot on the streaming side
compared to some of the other folks.
They they're kind of in a different mode of doing things,
but it really does. Look on its face like the Big
Ten struck a deal, that's going to be really positive putting it
stuff, not just in traditional media markets where everybody's
going to watch but also sticking things in places where they're
not going to be that hard to find and it's not going to cost
fans that much more, right? And as you mentioned earlier,
when we were having lunch at Osteria Rago, which you can cast
a great, wasn't it? Choice.
But you mentioned something interesting that I thought was a
good point, which is that ESPN's future is not necessarily as
secure as some might think because there's a movement
within Disney right now potentially to get ESP and
peeled off and, you know, spun off as a separate company in
part. Because a lot of the business
decisions that ESPN has to make moving forward, don't
necessarily align with Disney's Vision.
They want to get Sports, wagering stuff in there and
Disney doesn't At that, and there's a few other things but
also, ESPN's Empire was largely built off of cable Revenue.
Well, their kings of old media. They, they were like, you know,
my grandma paid for cable and they, she had to pay ten dollar
Carriage fee for ESPN and never watch anything.
And now, the things are being. Unbundled, like you mentioned
that they work with ESPN plus, but he has to be plus has not
has not shown that people are willing to pay ten bucks for
that service. And so in a weird way, they're,
they're kind of badly suited for this new model where everything
is all a cart I'm not sure you can get people to pay 15 bucks
for aren't enough. People to pay 15 bucks like the
key to ESPN's model. The reason they were a cash cow
for so many years is everybody who had cable was paying 15
bucks for ESPN, even if you didn't watch anything.
And so it's a weird way like we were talking about like it's
possible. They get bought by a hedge fund,
that just wants to squeeze the life out of them and they start
sucking the money out like there's there's a world where
ESPN is not look the same as not the Behemoth that we know it
today. So I'm not sure that that was
the thought process behind your but it just, it doesn't I don't
think that not being on ESPN, is there?
That's my point. I mean, we're not predicting the
demise of ESP and I think they'll be perfectly fine, but
they're no more secure correct than any of these other
partners. And I think you can make an
argument like, with something like Fox, where, yo Fox could
have backed off of a lot of what they did with sports.
But instead, they decided about five years ago, we're going to
double down on college football. We're going to change the way
the college football's done. We're no longer going to just
seed this territory without any competition.
To ESPN, right? And you can be the beneficiary
of that if you're the Big Ten, and this is the other nice thing
that you brought up in before this deal, and I'm happy the Big
Ten, listen to you, is like, they kind of did an NFL style,
meteorites deal here. They sold it to three different
people. So, if, if you unlike the ACC in
the grant of rights thing with ESPN, where it's kind of like
they're locked in with one partner for the whole time, like
if if you get to a point where let's just say, you know, fought
CBS for some reason has struggles in the media landscape
and looks like there may be bought out like The way this is
set up is like, you still at least have NBC and fox and maybe
then you sell that CBS part 2, Apple TV.
Like, it does feel like you are locked in for 10 years, but it's
not one partner your, you know, spread across different vendors
so to speak. And so I do like that.
Also, the last question, I'll ask to you.
We have more if you want to keep going.
No, no. The other question I have to use
I brought up is like, NBC the thing that piqued my interest is
like NBC is part of this deal and BC as a deal with Notre
Dame, does this make the on-ramp for Notre?
Dame to the Big Ten if they Want to easier in your mind.
Well, yeah, because now you're in the same corporate right
structure. Now, I was seeing some reports
earlier this week that Notre Dame might be looking at a 60
million dollar a year guarantee from NBC, which they can get
that good for them. But, you know, that largely, I
think, is on the tales of NBC deciding that they're going to
jump in with both feet to college sports, which is
frankly, something that they haven't done.
I mean, there's been college sports on NBC recently, but it's
been like the Atlantic 10 or the Colonial Athletic.
Association. You know, it hasn't been
high-profile stuff except for Notre Dame right now.
You know what will this do in terms of you know will Notre
Dame if Notre-Dame is making 60 million a year from ESPN that's
going to court for me from Hughes me from from there.
Meteorites deal through NBC that is going to mean that they're
probably making about 20 million dollars less than any big 10
team. Which if you're in order to aim,
you can probably still survive on that fairly easily.
I think the question that they're going to have is if that
number because there are escalators in this big ten deal
where it could get bigger if they have continued expansion,
it could increase like if that Gap starts to grow and now
instead of 20 million dollars behind their 30 or 40 or 50
million dollars behind I think that's where they might say.
Yeah. You know, all told we'd rather
combine things because we have better Market power.
If we're operating as a unit rather than us as the individual
because we can be bid against this point, as just some guy
podcasting has no Insight in Phi.
I think the To me, I think the bigger push should be less about
money. So I think 20 30 million here,
there's probably not the end of the world for Notre, Dame about
be nice, I'll take some of it, they don't need it, I think it's
more. If you get to a point where you
know, the Big Ten in the SEC, start determining what the
playoff is going to look like. I've say this for a while like
they're going to do it. I think when they do it the next
time, they're not going to give everybody a seat at the table
and I think they'll still be a path for non Big 10 SEC schools
to get there, but it might be where Big 10 SEC Champions have
a by or their first two games are at Home and then it goes to
bowl games are like, you know, they're the winners of each
division, the Big 10 SEC, have buys our home games.
Like the the path I think for other conferences will be harder
and Notre Dame. Will kind of be in the same boat
as Arizona and West you know, Arizona and you know UNC and
other schools. I started making sure I know the
right school. So what conferences they like,
make sure like West Virginia is not in the, the SEC are they?
But so I think that might be a bigger deter deterrent.
If you get to a point where detriment sorry wrong word,
might be a Desperate. Like, if you get to that point
where Notre Dame, see is like our path to get to the college
football national championship. Every year is a little bit
harder and we want to be with the big boys and get our byes
and stuff. I think that'll be the bigger
difference, but to your point if you already have now, you know,
a deal with NBC in the Big Ten, I think I think now it's
probably you have a longer period before Notre Dame has to
make that call and they can probably wait, five six, seven
years, see what the landscape looks like in and out.
If what I'm saying, never comes to fruition, maybe they never
join, but it's like, if I'm Notre Dame it's like I will see
if we get locked out we can always just Call the Embassy and
say, Daddy, let us in the Big Ten and, you know, they get in
the Big Ten, that's the thing. I mean, I just I wouldn't have
been surprised if Notre Dame decided that now is the right
time to do it. But I'm also not surprised that
Jack swarbrick of all people was like, what a weird to maintain
her independence and I think eventually they'll leave, but I
think they also realize they don't have to write because
they're going to still get an invite five to ten years from
now. And I look I think for the Big
Ten if you have Notre Dame on the same network that you're on,
you You both on your the only college level properties on NBC
like, to me, that is essentially moving in next door.
Yeah. Because now having said you
can't be like, hey, you don't get to play USC, all those
games, the NBC's, probably going to push to have hell anyway, so
it's like, well, that's the thing.
It's like now, if you're Notre Dame and this is where it's
gonna be interesting as they deal with the ACC stuff because
they had committed. And I think they're still
committed to the, what, the four games a year against ACC
opponents. But now it's like, well, you
know, we've got USC, which is a Big Ten team.
Mm, you got Michigan, which is a historical rival, Big Ten team,
Michigan State, Big Ten, team Purdue Purdue between the plane
Indiana and five years or six years, whatever it is, Big Ten
team will not guess what everybody gets rich off those
because there's going to be on, NBC likely, you know, those are
going to be a 7:30 game or the called the SEC quiz play
Vanderbilt 3 times. 100, is because banged out like, what?
And that's the other home and home and home with Vanderbilt is
all in one year. It's like a home game for Notre
Dame against a big 10 team could be on NBC, but part of the note,
the NBC The owner named contract, not the Big Ten
contract. It's like it's a bonus at that
point. So, that's where I would look at
this and say, it, lays groundwork it doesn't, you're
nobody's, there's no rings being exchanged or anything like that,
but it lays the groundwork so that Notre Dame wants to join.
They can and at the Big Ten once in order to aim to join, they
can and if NBC once, in order to aim to join the Big Ten, then
they can. Yeah.
So so look will be a lot more to come with this.
I think there's a out of interesting news and we won't
really see the full extent of this until 2024.
So it's gonna be another couple of years because a, you got to
wait for those to pack 12 teams to come over and be, you gotta
wait for the SEC to clear off of CBS.
So this will take a little bit of time to unveil its back
loaded because of that so Revenue generation for the first
couple years is not going to be as much as it is in those last
five or six years of the deal. But again another savvy.
Contract by the Big Ten, you know as Savvy as Jim Delaney was
signing that short-term deal before you figure.
By the time, all the pieces that we know of right now are going
to be in place for this deal to start going.
You're already going to be three years into the deal.
You're going to five years left and now, you know, sorry.
Negotiate prior to prior to 2030, you're going to have a
chance to have a brand new contract knowing what the
realities are of college sports. And if you've been paying
attention to college sports news, He's at all.
That is very much up in the air. Like, you know, the governance
of college, football's up in the air was going to happen with
college basketball in the tournaments up in the air.
There's a lot out there even down to like, who's going to
have the playoff, you know, who's gonna have the
championship. It's, it's it's not just a
matter of ESPN running things and everybody kind of fallen
into line. Now, it's this is very much
Brave New World territory. I will just say this opens up a
employment opportunity for any Crimson cast fan listener.
You know, my dad, I love My dad, he's 92 years old if he gets to,
you know, 2025 which I hope to hope he does.
I will pay somebody $300 an hour to go to his house, and show him
how to watch a game on Paramount plus, like, it's money.
Well, spent I love them, like, have a good time trying to
explain to my dad, how to get Paramount plus and peacock on
his TV. Good luck.
I can't even figure out Paramount Plus at the time and
like to pick up a little bit. Okay, on that stuff.
But yeah, no, it'll be an internet mean, this is the area
that we're in now. Now, and this is how things are
going to go. And so at the end of the day, I
hope you guys not to use apps out there, Crimson castle and
because you're going to be using a lot of them.
So anyway, let's shift gears and talk about IU football, as we
are not that far away, man. We're two weeks away from the
start of the Season plus a day at this point.
And I still don't have a clue what I'm supposed to think or
feel or expect out of this the season.
You know? I mean the this is we always We
talk, we do, we've done this so many times over the course of
the years that we've been podcasting together, and it's
always one of those deals where if you want to, you can get
really hyped up about the good news in August because it's
every every position has a breakout player and every
returner has something that they've improved in their game.
And every coach has these plans that are going to make things,
this much better and we hear this over and over again and
these are the stories that come out from the Press.
Average of things and then the season starts and most of the
time, none of that actually came to fruition in the team actually
has very similar to was before what's interesting is the last
three years. It hasn't been that way. 2019.
I think everybody at least the two of us came into that season
thinking probably another five and seven year maybe six and six
if we're lucky which is what I you had done the last four
years. Instead they go, you know, nine
and four almost win a bowl game and have, you know, One of the
they're not night and for they go eight and five and they have
one of the best seasons in IU football history, like Bar None
the next year, you know, we're, we're interested were intrigued
but I don't think anybody was thinking.
Wow, this team's going to be a top 10 team and yet they were,
and then last year, we did think they were going to be a top 10
team and they most decidedly. We're not so you to some degree.
It's like I've given up projecting at this point, you
have to do a little bit and when we get close to the start of the
season, will give our wind But right now, it's I think
important for fans, not not people that are just like
fanatics but people that are trying to be thinking fans to
back up and not get swept up in the excitement.
Reasonable level of excitement. But excitement nonetheless about
shiny new objects, or things that we haven't seen in action
because you just don't know what's going to happen with
them. So I've enjoyed some of your
pods. I have a couple more coming up
now. I know not all of All of them.
It's like, you know, getting the hot girl.
I got an achy, a little bit of not at the moment, Austin was
really good. But I've I've come to this this
conclusion. I don't know what to expect.
It's kind of where I'm at, but there's two ways to look at this
season. I think both of them have
legitimate points and fairness is all kind of hit.
Both of them in on the negative side, you know, going into that
2020 season. We talked a lot about, you know,
Nick Sheridan was a new offensive coordinator and, you
know, having a new offensive coordinator as a Change to a
team and we focused a lot on that as a possible concern,
which is fair at that point. Like, that's a big change going
into this year. And I remember years, like when
been Chapel left in the next year it's like we have all the
wide receivers like new quarterback, like how you know,
we don't know about that. And that's going to be a real
question, mark, we have a new o coordinator.
We have a nudie coordinator, even new running back
coordinator on the skill position.
We have DJ Matt Matthews, coming back after playing you know a
game and a half and that's it. We have a new, you know, new
quarterback, new running backs, new wide.
Receivers mostly a new o-line on defense, a lot of guys coming
back. But on the flip side, it's like
we you talk about that Cincinnati game like when
McFadden went out our defense just like that was we just
assume that's a law. So it's like he's gone.
So using that as a barometer there's nothing to say like that
is five or six things that have just one of them was happening
this year. You be like this is a real
question mark we got to keep an eye on this year.
There's question marks all over the place so and the point that
normally coming Of a bad year. Just historically.
Indiana doesn't normally go from to intend to rebound the ten and
two. So all of those things would
lead to this is going to be a very tough and brutal year.
Now on the flip side, something Zach talked about which I also
agree with is when you look at the last six or seven years, the
aberration year would be last year, right?
Like 2020, isn't the aberration we were building to it.
We went to a couple of bowl games.
Got a couple of years. We were competing for bowls, you
know, we were showing progress. Ress of being a solid middle of
the pack, Big 10 team, who if things lined up, right, could
pop like, we did in 2020. So, all that would say, last
year is the aberration and this year should go back to at least
the form of like, 2018, 2019 as we sit here.
Like, I really don't Eileen. Probably more toward the first
of its going to be a rough year, but I honestly don't know.
Like I think that's where I am. Very intrigued about this year.
I'm not Hang in pistor annoyed. Like my expectations are low but
my interest is actually pretty high because I'm curious to see
how this plays out because I do think you could make a case on
either side that it's going to be awful or last year is the
aberration we're going to be back to you know, fighting for
you know, seven eight wins. But yeah it's unfortunately the
positive side it goes a lot of bit of you know the thing I
always say is I hope is not a plan like a lot of us just based
on Hope of like I really hope this is going to work out well
but that's kind of where I'm Matt is I really see both sides.
I'm interested but that's where I'm at.
No, I'm with you on that. I'll pretty much all the way
across the board. I think that the prudent
approach for an IU fan who's been through the paces with this
program is not to get too down on what happened last year.
I mean it's it happened and it happened at the worst possible
time he do. And this is where I think to a
large degree, a lot of IU football fans.
Have or people who had decided they were going to invest in
football have almost gotten. Outsized angry at what happened
last year because it wasn't just that they stunk which they did.
And it wasn't just that they basically kind of gave up on the
last third of the Season which they did, but there was a chance
there to finally build more people into IU football fans by
having three consecutive awesome, or at least very good
seasons and they blew that to the point that I don't know how
many people are gonna show up for the Illinois game.
That's a great question. Like, what is the crown going to
be like for the next game? But but I also I think and I've
been guilty about this as much as anybody it's easy to get lost
in your irritation about that and your irritation in like how
did it get to that point with out like you can you can
overthink on that front and lose sight of the fact that the
overall level of the program has gone up a notch and you're going
to occasionally have seasons like that where you know, 2 and
10 or 3 and 9. I mean Northwestern has them
exact mentioned you. Seen other programs that are
kind of in that mold, they'll have a stinker of a year.
That's what makes this year, so important.
Yeah. And that's where you can look at
the Personnel changes. You can look at Sheridan
leaving, you can look at your old war and leaving, you can
look at some of the other changes that took place and you
can look at those assigned a weakness in Alan.
It's like my God, this is what is force coordinator on both
sides of the ball or service through 4th and 3rd or something
like that. And you can think to yourself.
Well, that's a sign of a coach pushing buttons, not knowing
what they're going to do, or you can look I didn't say, all
right, well, they made those changes going into last year, in
some cases with the defense and on the offense, that was like,
the second year for Sheridan. And clearly, there wasn't
something working on both sides of the ball, and they made
changes to try to address that as quickly as possible.
I can't decide whether I want to be in the optimistic camp for
the pessimist to camp on that. And that is basically I think
the challenge that most of us have really trying to break this
down and it's the same thing with a lot of these positions,
it's like, well, they brought in a lot of these interesting.
Skill position players from around college football, and
that generally doesn't work with college football, and it really
hasn't worked that much at Indiana.
I mean, there haven't been that many impact transfers period in
Indiana, history, and it's an even recently, like some of the
players last year that we're supposed to be impact transfers.
Certainly we're not, but that doesn't mean that it can't work
because we've seen it work in Michigan, State and elsewhere.
And it's kind of how college football works these days and I
think it's To some degree, how Indiana is going to have to do
business? Because they haven't shown an
ability to go and develop really good starters.
Like Wisconsin does out of two or three star prospects some,
but not enough to be an 89 win team, but they may be a good
enough destination for players at SEC schools who got recruited
over or you know, players at Big Ten schools who can play but
maybe got an injury and they're trying to come back from that
Indiana's probably if they're going to survive.
Thrive as a football program, in the next 10 years, under the
current set of rules is going to have to learn to win with those
types of players. And so it's an interesting test
case, for Tom Allen, and this Indiana program to see how they
deal in this environment and it's not ideal.
But Indiana has never been in an ideal spot in football.
Yeah, you know. And, and that's not an excuse,
it's just a reality. You've never gotten the, I mean,
they had the best recruiting class in their history,
essentially, last year and it was only 15 their Division and
he just gives you an indication of how far off the mark Indiana
is still in terms of overall culture.
Well, that's what was so disappointing about last year, I
think is so important about this upcoming season is, you know,
when I look at the so to me, it's like I look at the, our
results against Michigan State. Just because when I look at the
Big Ten, he's and then, and hopefully this will be changing.
That's coming on new meteorites. USC UCLA coming.
Like, hopefully they blow it up and so this isn't our reality,
but at least it's all reality for the next couple of years.
And it's Our reality is like, ho ho States, not going to not be
in the Big Ten with us, but like I look at the big 10.
He says, like different tiers, like, to me Ohio state is just
in a different galaxy like we're not going to compete with them.
I think that Michigan and Penn State or kind of like, you know,
one a or to a, what's interesting.
If you go back and look at the last six years, against Michigan
State, just using them as a, you know, kind of like they should
be at the same level. We are worth 3 and 3 against
them. Like it's, you know, the and
what's interesting is that two years ago, we beat him.
I think 24 to nothing. And we just shellacked him
should have been more last year. We played in pretty damn close
like they were a top 15 team. We could have won that game and
we didn't but like it wasn't a 24, nothing we got shut out and
we played them tough. So you would venture to say and
over the last six years, we got a second place, Big Ten, he's
finished, they don't. So if you look at just the last
six years, where a better program than Michigan State.
What is so frustrating about last year?
Is it felt like all right, if we can, if we can kind of be in
that category and kind of get above them a little bit, that's
this is what Like going into last year, it's like all right,
you know, Rutgers and Maryland are on a rearview mirror.
We're got a slight Edge over, you know, Michigan State.
But now we're at that point where if we have the great
season, the can't we can take down Mid Penn State Michigan and
then it's like, you know, maybe have a puncher's chance against
Ohio State. What was tough about last year
is, like, now, within just a 12 month periods, like, well, damn,
like Michigan State beat us, and they're recruiting, like, how
it's like, it feels like they are now in a different tier than
us. And it's like now we're back to
fighting Maryland and Rutgers and I worry there are Ahead of
us. And that's where like, I look at
honest, like the Michigan State game.
This year to me is big, like, we've got to keep ourselves in
that level of kind of in that spot where it's like, we're
trying to get ourselves into the fourth place team in the
division again, you're not going to beat him every time, but
like, that's what was so nice about 20 20 is like, you not
only kind of beat Michigan State, but you're able to take
down Penn State and Michigan like, and yeah, it just felt
like, within one year, it's like, oh my God, we're back to
now, like, trying to just, hopefully pull, Maryland down
with us and not be the worst. Well, Big Ten, he's so sweet to
me. It's like that's what's so
important about this year is you've got to find a way to get
back to the middle. Yeah, no and look, I think a lot
of last year's results were, they were closer than it is in
the early going than people give them credit for.
Now, does that mean that the team was better?
I don't know. I mean, because the the last
year's team was like three different teams.
Yeah. And but I think like an excuse
but like nobody things went wrong last year.
Like it was a Confluence of like so many bad events and so many
Things went right for Michigan State.
Yeah. And you know, so they're like
the fritz and Franz of like regression, you know, where it's
like one of them had a season. Where everything went right one
of them went everything went wrong which is kind of what
happened the previous year in Reverse, where everything went
right for Indiana and 2020 and everything, went wrong for
Michigan State in 2022. So what does that mean for this
year? I mean so much of it.
Ultimately is how much of the problems that we saw.
Last year were cultural that stem from the coaching staff.
And how many of them were issues with players whether it was
execution or attitude, or whatever or just problems in
management style where, you know, the end of the season.
It was clear that neither the offense.
Nor the defense was something that Tom Allen wanted to see
being run the way that it was run.
Right. Well you know the players seem
to want to run any of it, right? Yeah.
And so like that, that kind of thing you would have to think if
the program is going to be successful can get fixed, you
know, you got Go back to the first couple of years of Alan's
tenure to think about how all this plays out because we were
frustrated with Alan's tenure not because they were a two and
ten team and far away, but because they were close, they
weren't quite there. And there was some special sauce
that happened in the 2019 and 2020 season that suddenly put
them right there in the middle of things.
And then that goes away last year.
So what caused the Special Sauce in the first place?
And how do you get it back? And I think, That's where it's
hard to predict what's going to happen with this team because
that is not a simple matter of. Oh they're talented or they're
not talented because I mean, this is Indiana team.
Yeah, they're not as talented as Ohio State or Michigan or Penn
State but they're in the conversation with the other four
teams in the Big Ten East as well as most of the teams in the
big tent West. And I mean, even a team like
Wisconsin, which wins a lot more than Indiana.
I don't think Wisconsin's that much more talented than Indiana
in a lot of positions, but they're much much better at
running a football. Ball program.
And so I don't think that there are many games that are
completely off the board for Indiana.
But I also know that they cannot play and coach, not just the way
they did last year, but the way that they did in 2017, and 2018
because, you know, those Seasons, like many of the Kevin
Wilson seasons were characterized, largely by missed
opportunities not by successes and, you know, I do think it's,
you know, the jury's still out. On Tom Allen's ability to win
games without Kalin Deboer or cane Wommack in key roles.
And that was, you know, yes, both of the, you know, the, the
war was not here very long at all.
And will make wasn't that great. The first time he was doing the
defensive coordinator thing, but they both grew into the roles
very well. I just, I'm really curious to
see how Indiana is able to reset the room and how the new folks
that they bring in by, Into what Alan actually wants done.
And whether that Vision frankly is commensurate with a team that
can win six or more games regularly in the conference
because that's ultimately what Indiana has to be.
If they want to do this on a going proposition to your point,
he had good hires of a coordinators early on, he just
had looked like bad ones after that.
Which again goes to this dichotomy of like he did it.
Well, he did it wrong. Which one is it?
Yeah. It's because it's like so many
of the positional Cause I don't don't find interesting so much
of the focus has been on is it going to be kind of Basil
actors? It going to be Jack Tuttle and
it does it matter. But we've seen very little of
both of them kind of see what we've seen out of Jack title.
I don't know what you would use to justify putting him in as a
starting quarterback. I mean that Michigan State game?
You're talking about it, sticks out real bad, how inadequate he
was at that position but it wasn't entirely his fault
because he had a bad offensive line and he had receivers, that
weren't getting 0. And this is where as a fan just
as a fan perspective, like I'm just not paying To wait until
the games to see it because, right?
I was burned too bad last year. This is where I do have concerns
about the coaching staff as they went into last year.
Basically, just saying like a penix, is our guy, penix is
ready. And then it was like three snaps
into the Iowa game, I like as a fan and row 38 at kinnick
Stadium, like appendix is not ready to play a Big Ten schedule
and it's like how did they not see that?
And maybe they have no other options but to go into the year
being the we're going to win the Big Ten and appendices are guy.
It's like you you had to have seen that this wasn't the
options. Like why did you go get somebody
to translate go? Do something and then just don't
be like, throwing your hands up and like I don't we have a, you
know, McCully as a Critic they looks completely unprepared for
that scenario. So for me it's like even if they
came out and said base likes our guy and he's going to be the
best thing since sliced bread is like, I don't believe them.
Like I need to see and on on the field and I'm not being
negative, but I do think for me as a fan like that's where the
bridge has been burned. Where it's like you've got to
show me and I don't think basic needs to be penix.
Review needs to be a top. Tier business needs to be
serviceable but they've lost me in that ability.
To have me believe anything, they say going into it, I am a
little bit concerned about their ability, to see that quarterback
position, because it did seem like they were blinded by
something with penix last, or maybe it's like this was our
best shot, even with him, 70%. But we saw him at 70%.
It wasn't good enough. I mean, we've seen a Tom Allen
defense. Make a bowl with Richard Lego at
quarterback? Yeah.
And you know, that's kind of like the Mendoza Line of Indiana
quarterbacks, if you can play, you know, and it's like it feel
bad for like somebody like Nate's.
Thud felled, who, as well, as he played only made one bowl game,
and that wasn't entirely his fault, he lost a year due to
injury, and what not. But that is to me, it's like if
you can get at least adequate quarterback play out of either
of these guys, it's the Lego. Yeah.
You know exactly.
You don't need to have a Michael panics granted, we never didn't
see much of Michael penix. I mean, ever finished a season
without a cur, a season-ending injury, but we, you know, we get
that that type of play or we get the Type of play that say
somebody, you know, like even Peyton Ramsey, you know, Ramsey
leads the team to a twins on and off in that 2019 season.
You just need competent play which they just weren't getting
last year because panics was injured, Tuttle was not ready.
McCully was definitely not ready and you just you get to a point
where that becomes something that holds you way the hell back
and I feel that way across the board.
You know, it's like wide receiver as much as the
quarterbacks got crap last year. That was One of the worst IU
wide receiving Corps is performances I've ever seen.
Yeah, and you know, it's almost like it can't be that bad as it
was last year this upcoming year.
Like it almost physically can't be.
If it is, then there's real real problems that have probably have
to get get addressed immediately one.
Random quarterback, who I trust right wide.
Receiver thing is think about when you were talking about
Macaulay with Zach transferring him over, you know?
It is funny. It's like this is almost like in
the old Football were like you move up to the next level of
recruiting? It's like oh, we're recruiting
just an athlete now like oh you can just move a guy from like
quarterback to wide receiver. It's like in the old NCAA games,
you could just do that you recruited as an athlete and just
figure out where to put them and it's like, they're does feel
like, oh it. We now have athletes, we can
just move from quarterback to wide receiver, but I hope that
he can help provide something there.
But I'm with you that if we see the same performances on skill
level, that's not going to be good.
I'm also very curious just at a high level, you know, the only
High-level coordinator, that's coming back.
Is your offensive line coordinator?
Which has maybe been the worst bright performing sector of IU
football, for at least the entirety of his career that has
to improve like that is something where no matter, how
good you are, you need time to throw the ball.
You need time to get Guys open and that just has to improve.
Yeah, well lots of questions and look, normally we go into a lot
more statistical detail. And I'm almost at the point
where it's like, what would detail we're going to go into
last year, like every single metric show that Indiana stunk
last year is that an indicator of what's going to happen this
year? I don't think so.
The big, you know, in so much of Indiana's success or failure is
going to be based on relativity. How are they relative to
Illinois who had a surprisingly good season last year, but
fired, their offensive coordinator?
How good are they going to be relative to Rutgers who had for
them a magical season? But lost most of their offensive
line, Still doesn't have a quarterback.
How good are they going to be versus or compared to Maryland?
Who had finally the Breakthrough season?
They wanted out of Mike locksley?
They make it to a bowl game. Are they that good?
Or will they regress? Michigan State, who had a great
season last year? Will they regress?
I mean, Nebraska, who, everybody's like, I mean, is
Scott Frost is going to be the coach when Indiana is in
Nebraska. The first weekend, are they
going to be bad or they going to be good?
And Indiana, is weirdly kind of a wild card if you assume that
they're not Not as bad as they showed that they were last year
and I need just like I need evidence that they're better.
I need evidence that they're actually that bad.
So if you they're not that bad then suddenly it's like well
okay those that's five that's five games.
Well isn't that right there right?
Plus you got Purdue if you throw them in the mix and then you got
your non-conference games. Like if Indiana actually is
better and they put it back together and they figured out
something that works and they play within themselves.
I'm not Acting five, six, seven wins, but certainly that seems a
lot more feasible than if you just come in saying.
Well, we're obviously just a to win team that has a very hard
ceiling above like three or four winds.
I agree with you. It in a weird thought
experiment. I was doing a couple of days ago
is if you just take last year's team again kind of looking at
this schedule and kind of what's ahead of us if you take last
year's team in the feeling you had going into last remember you
and I had the talk. I think I thought we would win
at Iowa and lose the Cincinnati at home.
You were flipped but each of us thought, Thought we were going
to clear a pretty high barrier with that teams.
We both came in confident that we both had is like seven or
eight wins. If you take last year's team and
just plug it in right now and this year's schedule just going
to go through it. Home in Illinois would be a win
Idaho win. The Western Kentucky would win
at Cincinnati. I think, based on last year's
team with this year. Cincinnati, I think we win that
game at Nebraska. Then we can beat Nebraska,
Michigan is a maybe, but it's like again.
I know he wouldn't play them back to back years at home, but
it's like, we're going off of theoretically, the 2020 that we
just beat Michigan in that were in that in my weird alternate
universe. Like, so that's a toss-up, but
let's give it a win. You have Maryland Rutgers like
if I took last year's team on this year's schedule I think
we're eight know before we get to that Penn State game on
November fit. And I know this is a weird
thought process but it's like they're very weird, very weird.
But this schedule it doesn't give you that like, oh my God,
like to your point if we're not as bad as we were last year
suddenly the and people kind of come to regression this, I'm not
saying we're going to To go ain't no that's not going to
happen but in the end it goes back to the initial thought.
Like I'm not sure we were as high-flying as we were in 2020.
I'm probably not as bad as were in 2021, it is funny.
I look at the 2020 thing and you know, with, you know, all the
stuff beginning of last year's here.
What have you done the win? The Big Ten, this year has gone
to, you know, what have you done to beat Illinois.
I think it's good. And you've mentioned to like,
you know, just the too much noise, too much hype and it
makes me think of like I think it was Greek without the Icarus
was Greek mythology. Icarus Icarus.
You'll find too close to Sun kids?
We don't know what read your books but it's it is funny how
like 4,000 years ago or three thousand years ago.
There's these Proverbs where it's like it still holds a lot
of water today like that. It does feel like 20 21 was kind
of our Collective like your reader mobile.
We will too close to the sun. It's like you're now paying
Penance for that but anyway you look at last year's team this
year schedule. It's not in you know just a
thought process were like it just doesn't look that
frightening but You do need some of those elements from 2020 to
carry over into new people. We'll go ahead and wrap up
there. But one question for us from Dan
Corral. This actually goes back to the
Big Ten conversation we were having, but he asks, why is the
Big Ten TV deal and all currents were Stevie teals astronomical?
Despite the fact that more and more people are cutting the
cord, is it simply the sports of the only thing left live.
And so due to supply, demand laws, the price skyrockets or is
it something else? Well, a couple of things, one
people are cutting the cord. But a lot of the people cutting
the cord aren't sports, fans or weren't sports fans.
I mean, there aren't a lot of people who like sports that
don't have some kind of media service, right?
So, a lot of the, the leakage in network television has been in
Entertainment Television or in news where, you know, and less.
It's a Fox News where, you know, you're going to get like a
locked in audience, you know? I mean, like, you'd rather turn
on Netflix and watch chef's table or whatever.
Ever than, you know, turn on whatever the Cooking Channel or
something like that, but you don't get that with sports.
Like, you have to have the ability to watch the games live
and, and that's where they matter and advertising live
advertising pays a lot of money and more.
So now I think proportionally specifically in Sports
Programming because it's such a desirable demographic and it's
growing as a desirable demographic because it's so many
more women that are watching live, sporting events than were
25 30 years ago. So that's really why.
The deals are astronomical because people are still making
money and as much as the traditional Cable model is
disintegrated, and people aren't streaming to the same degree.
The ones that are streaming are the ones that were already
watching sports back in the old system.
So you really haven't lost any audience.
You've lost over all audience, but not this audience.
And I would just say people like sports and they're gonna follow
Sport and and sports is one of those things where like if
you're into, you know, cooking battle shows, you could, you
know, you could cut the cord and not becomes.
Able to watch Hell's Kitchen. But then you can watch like a
pretty close replica on Netflix, whereas, you know, like, is it
cake is kind of similar, you watch nailed it hurts.
Like there's a thousand variations of the see, whether
it's a CSI, drummers like, there's a different variations
in different places. Whereas Sports, it's very
decisive. You're into college football
here in the Big Ten football. You can't just be like ABS watch
darts instead. It's like there is no like well
it's a sport. I'm gonna watch.
You know? Professional cornhole it's like
well sir. That is not that it is a sport.
Yes, I could just watch, you know, like croquet but like that
is not Watch this and like, I want this branded sport, it's
like, you'd Sports is like the, you know, in the grocery store,
you want the brand label and you're just not going to go to
generic, or if you're into cooking shows, you could go to a
generic. Right?
Well, and it's actually why I didn't even mention the Premier
League earlier something that's on peacock, because a while
there's a lot of Premier League fans that are also u.s. fans,
they're kind of different than the college football audience.
It's almost like, you know, it's like the separate thing, but
it's a great example of, you know, there that's a whole
audience that didn't exist. Fifteen years ago that exists
now and it's largely now moving to a streaming platform and
that's a valuable audience and that audience continues to grow.
And so I look at all of this and I say to myself, ultimately we
are in a position where you're just not going to see numbers
with sports go down because it's one of the few bankable things
right now in media anyway, that'll wrap it up for us.
Scott always always a pleasure playing a home game here.
But you know, Welcome back down anytime and we'll get the, the
not right music going here. As we wrap things up with
Crimson ever hear the hot take but we never had I don't know.
Play it now. No green green, Green enough
green. I'm not gonna die on that.
Play that anyway. Thanks to all you folks out
there, thanks to home-field apparel for presenting the show
and thanks to Scott for coming down and sparing me having to
set everything up on Zoom. We will be back next week with
more. Are you football talk?
As we get ready for the start of the Season as they play
Illinois? I'm Galen klaviyo will catch you
folks on the flip side? Bring back the Bison.
So long, everybody.