You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast,
Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining me a Happy November
everybody. It is the 5th of November, a
Sunday and Indiana. Has won a Big 10 game.
Scott, we got, we got some fun stuff to talk about today.
This is what we like. This is what we're excited
about, Scott. It's as we said, the first full
week of November. Now this is the last weekend
without college basketball for a long time, which is exciting.
But obviously, football giving us something to think about,
that's exciting. We're gonna talk about football
in this podcast. We'll have some more basketball
stuff in future podcasts, obviously.
But Scott, good to see you. How are you doing?
I'm doing great, man, Doing fantastic.
Awesome. Well, I felt.
Back. You what topics right now?
We were all screwed up in terms of when we were gonna start the
recording today and you were you were late.
Normally you're up a little earlier than me, but I slept in.
I think A. Proponent Indiana should be on
central time. I don't care about the daylight
savings and like that's where it gets.
I was actually when I moved back to Indiana in 09, I got into a
committee like to help try to get Indiana back on central time
And like so much of the discussion was like Oh no, but
we like we we don't want to get rid of the daylight savings.
Like yes, that's a different topic.
It also deals. With time.
But it's different. Like, I don't care about
daylight savings. I care we should be on Central
Time all the time. And it was I I talked to some
legislators. Wow, they're like, oh, we
already decided the daylight savings thing.
Like, yes, that's that's different, right?
It's a different topic. They're like, we already decided
this. I'm like, well, it's stupid.
We should be. And even now with like, now the
Internet working at home, it's like even more idiotic that
we're on Central Time. Anyway sorry we're on Eastern.
We're not on Central but yes not not on correct that we're on
Eastern. I'm with you.
I'm. I'm with you on that 100%.
Well look, regardless of what time zone we're in we're in a
time zone where Indiana has beaten Wisconsin in a football
game. So we're going to talk about
that. But first of all just a couple
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Anyway, Scott, let's get to the big news.
Indiana defeats Wisconsin 20 to 14.
This was a game that for all the world, didn't seem like
something Indiana was going to be able to win.
As we started the season, Wisconsin looked like Wisconsin.
And if you've been following the saga of Indiana football over
the years, you know that playing Wisconsin never turns out well
for IU. Yes, you had the win a few years
ago in the COVID year up in Madison when there were no fans
in the building, and you know that was that was a nice win.
That was unfortunately the last win of that season.
But generally speaking, when Indiana has played Wisconsin,
whether it's been Tom Allen coaching or whether it's been
Kevin Wilson coaching or whether it's been Phil Lynch or Cam
Cameron coaching, it hasn't gone well.
And yet this one had the possibility of being a bit
different. If you listen to the Crimson
Cast pregame show, you know that ultimately this was a somewhat
hobbled Wisconsin team. They were missing their starting
quarterback, they were missing starting running back, starting
wide receiver, and they seemed vulnerable.
They haven't been scoring a lot of points.
They haven't been doing the kinds of things you would expect
a team of Wisconsin's normal caliber to do.
And you looked at the way that Indiana played against Penn
State, and it was a possibility, if you let your mind wander a
little bit, that Indiana might be able to carry the momentum
and the effort over from that game against Penn State into
Wisconsin. I just had my questions about
Indiana's ability to absolutely. Do you actually go in and do
that? I thought they would compete.
I thought they'd be competitive. I didn't think they were going
to win the game. Scott I was happy to be wrong.
It was a fascinating and kind of weird game as it went down the
stretch because both teams were really having trouble doing what
they wanted to do offensively because of how good the defenses
were playing. But Indiana made a couple of
fewer mistakes than Wisconsin in this game, and that's really
what ended up being the difference.
Yeah, I mean as I highlighted in the the post game after Penn
State is there, there's just not a lot of history of under Tom
Allen, Indiana doing well against a high level opponent
and then it kind of translating into something else.
Also, just in the history of IU football, these games really
bugged me like the way they normally turn out.
I'm very happy we won it normally.
Like I remember the the year Penn State was under massive
sanctions and they were just getting crushed by everybody.
And I think that was the year we had Xander Diamont at
quarterback and we lost like 13 to 10 and it was like just punt
after punt and it's like. We have these situations where
teams are historically down and everyone takes advantage and
gets their lumps in except for us, nothing.
Wisconsin's historically down, but you know they're like you
mentioned, they're down a quarterback, they're down a lot
of players. They're having a rough season
and and normally it's like those are the games that we just don't
capitalize on. And it's like man, like we could
have gotten you know Ohio State in one of those years, like the
the the end of the trestle era, the early Urban Meyer years.
Like no, we didn't but we got this one and that's to me that
that's what is is really nice and.
You know there there's some some things in this game like you
mentioned down the stretch it definitely felt like hot potato
on who wanted to try and give away the win as much as
possible. But Indiana got the win.
There's there are some things to talk about from a concerning
angle. But hey, they won a game and I
think to me the really the, the key thing that I take away from
this game is something that I had meant we had talked about
earlier in the season. I'm sorry.
Coughing a little bit is that? You know the the the season is
still available to have something good happen here at
the end. You just got to keep the team
mentally and physically like into it and give Tom Allen total
credit. They have like they were they
play played hard against Penn State and they kept it going
against Wisconsin like very easily could have shut down
either of those two games and just packed it in after the
Rutgers lost and they didn't. So it's a it's a tribute to the
the coaching staff, the team that everyone is still locked in
and you still, you know, we're in playoff mode, but you you are
still in the berth. A ball, there was a question in
your pre game that I want to hit on near the end about, you know
the ball contention for this team.
But no I mean to me that's my major take away is the team
looked engaged. They looked into it and that's
something you haven't seen in the past, you haven't seen you
know a lot of other teams just kind of pack it in.
So I I give total credit that that they did that they they
kept there and then they won the game.
Yeah. I mean, I think ultimately you
can pick apart the performance and we'll talk a little bit
about that here in a minute. But at the end of it all, as
we've said so many times, it's the outcome that really matters.
And when you're Indiana, you know that you're not likely
going to play a start to finish good game and and win, at least
not against an opponent of of Big 10 caliber.
And so you have to kind of reset expectations.
There have been times when Indiana would have been expected
perhaps to be more dominant in certain games because we've seen
them play that way, haven't seen this team play that way.
And as much as we've talked over the course of, not just this
year but last year about the disappointment that we've seen
in these IU performances and their inability to adjust in the
second-half and things like that, it was really awesome to
see Indiana put it together. And while they certainly had
troubles in some aspects of their game, other aspects of the
team's game really picked it up. I mean, you can't tell the story
of this game without talking about Aaron Casey, who was just
all over the the place in this game. 9 total tackles, seven of
them solo, 2 sacks, 4 tackles for loss.
I mean, I was listening to some of the game on the radio and the
number of times Aaron Casey's name would come up in terms of
being there for a defensive play it.
Was it? Was it was just a constant.
And look I think ultimately we're we're very critical of the
coaching Staffs because ultimately they're the ones in
charge and they're in charge of getting players ready to go.
They're in charge of having game plans that will work because
it's the college level and you don't give football players the
same degree of autonomy except in pure athleticism.
But IU still does need guys making plays and that's what
they had a lot of yesterday. They had guys making plays and
Aaron Casey really stuck out on the defensive end of things.
You know, Offensively, Brendan Soresby had a really effective
first half. He had a significantly less
effective second-half, but he didn't really make any mistakes
that truly cost Indiana and that were his fault completely.
You know, he didn't turn the ball over, had a couple of
fumbles, but fortunately didn't lose any of them.
Was dealing with with an offensive line that frankly
started to crumble as Wisconsin adjusted their pressure systems
and really started to get after him.
But Soresby showed a poise and an ability to put it together
right when it mattered the most. That really helped Indiana win
the game and you can kind of go down the list.
I mean, Donovan Mccully made great plays throughout the
course of the game. You know, Josh Henderson had a
couple of timely runs. EJ Williams and Dequese Carter
came in and played pretty well at wide receiver in the absence
of Camp Camper and on the defensive end, You know, we've
already mentioned Casey, Jordan Shaw had a good game.
Nick Toomer, I thought had a pretty good game.
It's it's it was a nice team effort and I think especially
when you think about the way that Indiana normally loses
these games, it's because they play well to start.
They can't maintain and then you get into the second-half and the
other team's guys make more plays than Indiana's do, and
that didn't happen in this one. And that's probably the thing
that I'm most excited about. Yeah.
And it, it kind of goes back to the first week when, you know,
we were all kind of fired up about the defense against Ohio
State. You know, we play the drive
chart game a lot and at some point maybe we'll talk about
Indiana's drive chart in the second-half, which isn't pretty.
But you know, you look at Wisconsin in the second-half, so
they score a touchdown. But then for the rest of that
game? It's a punt, you know, 12 play,
12 play, drive for a punt, 2 plays, fumble, 3 plays, punt, 6
plays over on down, 7 plays fumble, that's that's fantastic
by the defense. It would have been nice if they
didn't need to get it every single time.
But they did and that's the key and as you said like it's a
results based business and they got a win and you you keep kind
of hope alive. It was a beautiful day, great
day to be in a game. So no, I I take away a lot of
those things, you know, the, the.
I I want to continue to be positive before we start getting
negative because it's a win and that's that's a good thing.
I'm with you on Soresby. Soresby.
You know it looks like we have our quarterback which just being
honest like this is the tough thing with where football is.
Is the even the good things have a twinge of like I'm not sure
like as that game was going on I'm like why?
Why was there a quarterback battle to start the year and
like, why did it take us this long to get to get to this
point? And but also maybe the answer
was. Just one of these guys needed
you know some reps and just to know that they're the starter
and a little bit of continuity and maybe he'd be even farther
ahead. But either way he had a good, he
had a good year. Our offensive playbook at times
looks functional and it looks like we're playing to win.
It just doesn't happen for the entire game.
But you know those are all again, and I go back, you know,
Casey was fantastic. But again I go back to the the
team looked engaged. You know they they were not
checked out. You know, so, so.
Some of the things that we've seen in the past and partially
why we were so pessimistic is we were just taking what we had
seen in the past and putting it toward the future.
You know, we haven't seen honestly in the last two weeks,
you know out, you know we were unhappy with how the Penn State
game ended. I know I was feeling like they
could have taken a shot, but they played a really good Penn
State team at Penn State, really good, and this is back-to-back
weeks of really high level performance out of this team.
Yeah, you know the I I was thinking about the the way that
IU is approaching the drives in this game.
And what I find interesting overall about this is Indiana
had some drives offensively where they looked fine, they
were able to move the ball the first drives.
I mean, it's I'm almost disappointed if Indiana doesn't
score a touchdown now on their first drives and their ability
to script these drives out. And be completely drilled on
what they need to do it. It says a lot about how the team
conducts itself overall. I think that they look so good
there, but the concern is always well, hey, they're going to go
out and score on this first scripted Dr. and then they won't
be able to score again. But I think it was interesting
about this game was that they go a nine play, 66 yard drive for a
touchdown On that first drive. They go 12 plays 33 yards.
On the next drive, they miss a field goal.
They have a six play drive after that.
They have a nine play drive after that that results in a
field goal. They have their 1/3 and out of
the first half in the penultimate Dr. and then they go
9 plays 71 yards for a touchdown at the end of the first half.
And now if they don't have any of those scoring drives, they
may not win the game. But I'm impressed that against
the Wisconsin team that certainly was struggling
offensively but still pretty much has its mojo defensively
that they were able to do all of that in the first half.
Now it didn't sustain in the second-half and I and I think,
you know it's. You look at that second-half,
they had a 10 play drive that didn't result in any points at
the beginning of the second. Then they went three plays,
eight yards, 3 plays, -11 yards, 3 plays, zero yards.
And you're like, gosh, here it is again.
Like they're they're going to, they're going to just not finish
the job. And then you get to that last
drive after Wisconsin turns it over on downs and Indiana
manages to put an 8 play, 36 yard drive together.
They attempt a ludicrous field goal that somehow goes in.
But the fact that they were able to drive out of their own
territory, get it to a point where they could kick a field
goal and then actually convert at the end of the game after
their offense looked like the Battery had died, that's really
encouraging Scott. I mean we, you know we saw this
it happened a little bit last year that was the Western
Kentucky game last year kind of worked out this way.
But their ability to jump start the offense right when it needed
to be jump started and get just enough yards where they could
get themselves into field goal territory, that that's really
exciting to me. And I think a lot of that really
does go down to the poise of Brendan Soresby starts that
drive off with a designed run. It was a nice play by Rod Carey
to call. They used Donovan Mccully on
that drive. They you know they they managed
to to pick up some yardage in different ways.
It wasn't like they were having to rely on solely one thing, and
I think that's been offensively to me, probably the biggest
difference is like they don't look, they don't look
unidimensional on offense anymore.
They look like they've got a few things in the tool kit that they
can pull out and utilize. And the fact that they were able
to do that at a critical moment and essentially put the game out
of reach for that Wisconsin team who was having trouble moving
the ball, it was a really, really good sign.
That's a great point. No it's a it's a very because
you're right the offense up to that point was just was just
dead in the second-half and they just they were not doing it.
The defense is holding up and and I agree, I mean, you know,
I. I want to continue to stay
positive because we we've been negative this year based on what
we're seeing. But you know, it it does make me
concerned how replicable all of this is because when you look at
Wisconsin, you know, Locke was just didn't look like functional
as a quarterback. There was a lot of throws where
guys were open and he just wasn't able to hit them.
And then you mention that field goal like while we're taking
that field goal, it's like this is this is absurd.
This is not this is not a field goal that we we've made in the
past and if you you miss it you're basically giving
Wisconsin like a first down to a field goal to getting you in
overtime. Like it's this feels similar to
me like the Michigan State game of last year take away kind of
the offensive schematic changes where you know the the thing
that. I think was the issue with that
Michigan State win last year was I I worry that a lot of the, you
know, the, the coaching staff felt like all of that was
replicable. And it's like, all right, well
that's, that's our new plan. That's how we're going to do
things. It's like, no, it's not.
I look at this game and I do just want to make sure that like
that you like realize like that that field goal was like it
worked out. That was the wrong call.
Like this is not the way we should do things moving forward.
And and again it goes to kind of the not just the field position
where it was. It goes to the same issue in the
Penn State game. It's like hey this is the first
drive. The offense is moving.
You know, you know we either put the, you know this, this is the
time to be conservative and like kick the, kick the punt, you
know give give them all that spot.
Like why are you going nuts now when you could have done it last
week. So I just I I want to make sure
we take away the right messages from from these, from these
games. No, it's an interesting one.
I mean that was Chris Freeman's longest field goal of his career
that that 50 yarder. And I yeah, I remember I was
listening to that part of the game on the radio at 1st and
went back and watched it later. But the.
Rhett Lewis, the color commentator, was like, real
surprised that they were bringing the field goal unit on.
He was like, you know maybe gonna try to draw him offside
and then you know, like they're gonna snap it and they snapped
it and I've ever. I'm listening to it and.
Hearing that it went in was just a thrill and a a pleasant shock.
And it was it was about as nice of a field goal attempt as you'd
seen from a guy that had missed a relatively easily makeable
field goal earlier on in the game.
So I'm with you. It seemed like it was an
interesting strategic decision that I would not have
recommended, but it worked. And you know, to some degree I
think for games like this. You almost, you know, as much as
we were critical last week of them not going for the win, it
wasn't that bad of a call if you think it about it fully in
context because you kick a field goal or or try a field goal
there and OK, if you miss it, you're going to give the ball up
at what the 40 yard line. But Wisconsin A had an injured
kicker and B. Was not showing any real signs
of being able to move the ball. So I think it was a little more
reasonable than it looked if you just laid it out on paper
without any of the additional context.
Well, it was it was the knockout blow.
I mean because to your point like Wisconsin just functionally
probably wasn't going to go for a touchdown.
So if you get that field goal there, you know it's it's the
aggressiveness that we wanted the week before.
And I I always kind of err on the side of aggressiveness.
So I like it. It's just like that was one
where like that's that's wow. But you know it worked out and
I'd rather that our default is to be a little more aggressive
and go for knockout out blows and we have them.
So in that respect, I like. It yeah.
A couple of other notable items in this game from a statistical
perspective. First of all, Indiana, I think
for the first time this season managed to have a plus 2IN
turnover margin. Wisconsin turned the ball over
twice, not not counting turning it over on downs.
Obviously, Indiana didn't turn the ball over at all, and that
was the first time in Big 10 play.
Since the Ohio State game, strangely enough, that Indiana
had a positive turnover margin and it was the only time this
season that Indiana has had a +2 or better in turnover margin
this year be we own Ohio State and Scotland.
Yes, but I mean, but you think about it like you know, they
they they they were -1 in turnovers in the Rutgers game.
They were -1 in turnovers in the Penn State game.
They were. I mean, I don't know if it would
have mattered with the Maryland game, but.
This is a team when we go back and look at the success that
they had in 2020, so much of it was predicated on not turning
the ball over and then turning your opponent over.
And that's what happened in this game.
Now, they certainly had some help because I don't know, does
Luke Fickle want to get fired? Like is that his approach?
I mean, this is a this is a couple weeks in a row now where
he put a guy who clearly can't throw the ball particularly well
in positions where he had to throw the ball a bunch.
And yeah, lot, Braden lock. And even though lock, you know,
ended up, it was 21 for 43, which is not good. 243 yards, 2
touchdowns. You know, I'm still shocked that
they didn't try to rush more often against Indiana.
Indiana did make it hard on them, but as we saw towards the
tail end of the game, it looked like Wisconsin was going to
eventually wear Indiana down with their running attack, and
they just didn't. You know, so between that and
then not being able to hang on to the ball and the other big
one and another, we know as much as we complain about IU when
they're not disciplined. Indiana only committed 2
penalties for 30 yards in this game.
Wisconsin committed 8 penalties for 78 yards in this game.
Indiana was the more disciplined team.
They're the team that made the fewer mistakes.
And you look at it, it's like I don't, I don't even think that
if you're, I mean you could look as a Wisconsin fan at the total
yard you can say well we out gained you 344 to 261 that's
like that's true. But you also committed more
penalties, you committed more turnovers and you weren't
particularly better on 3rd down or 4th down.
I mean, they were a combined. Wisconsin was a combined 7 for
19 on 3rd and 4th downs. Indiana was a combined 7 of 17.
Which is slightly better. So even statistically, you look
at this game and you say this wasn't like a fluke win.
Indiana was in the same ballpark as Wisconsin statistically.
And that really feels nice to say, Scott.
I mean, this has been such a boogeyman for Indiana football,
this Wisconsin team, and now you've, you've beaten them too
straight. And you know, and I think it's
important to put it in in the larger context of how the series
is gone. I mean, you had to go back.
To 2002, as as Big 10 Network had to remind us when Jerry
Dinardo was coaching to find the last time that Indiana had
beaten Wisconsin in Memorial Stadium.
And you know, if you go back to 1993, this was the only the 4th
win in the last 30 years that Indiana's had anywhere against
Wisconsin. And they've been on the beating
end of a lot of really bad beat downs.
They've lost. In this series, 62 to 1359 to
nothing, 43 to 2241 to 2452 to 1733 to 355, to 2083 to 2059 to
762 to 1451 to 3 and 45 to 17. I mean, those are just some of
the scores that Indiana has lost to Wisconsin by over the last 30
years. So to watch Indiana cost Lynch's
job like that was a Lynch. Yeah, Lynch lost the job there.
So, so to watch Indiana go and, like, slowly bleed Wisconsin
out. Throughout the course of a game
and win the way that they did was particularly satisfying.
I mean, I would have loved like a 30 point victory, but
certainly this was a nice way of watching Indiana do what they
what they did and the fact that they were able to really seal
the game with their defense and make those plays.
Yes, Wisconsin was diminished on offense.
We've seen Indiana lose to teams that were diminished on offense
before and they didn't do it this time.
And what's kind of a cool bookend is, you know when we
went in to beat Wisconsin, we were diminished on offense.
You know that was the game where we didn't have Pennex going in,
you know, and and that was a game you know.
So anyway, Tuttle playing, we weren't sure what we're going to
get at that. I think that was like 20 to 13
or something like that. It was somewhere in there like a
seven point range or something. It was 6:50 or but that.
Anyway, that was a similar game where we kind of bled out
Wisconsin. But in that case we were the
ones with the division. But yeah, like, like you said,
like we both said, you know there's been many times where
teams have come in, you know, especially at the the kind of
the upper echelon of the Big 10 where they've had an issue that
season and we haven't been able to capitalize and and so we did.
It's great we get a win against Wisconsin.
This is these wins really matter and this is the kind of thing
that's important and This is why getting, you know, closing these
things out is important. The one statistical thing that I
will take that I've kind of been noticing this year and just it
it continues, it would be nice to solve this this year,
especially as a team that was going to be a running team this
year. Still another game without a
rushing touchdown by a running back.
So we've not had a Big 10 game this year where we've had a
rushing touchdown by a running back.
Again, Brendan Soresby gets the the touchdown, which is great,
another rushing one, but it'd be nice to see us get one running
back in the end zone in the Big 10 this year.
We still got three more shots at it.
Yeah, it's. Clearly that's not the case
anymore and I think look Rod Carey as skeptical as we were
about his full time hire and and still are so much better
already. The offense does look
significantly better and you know it.
It does really feel like either Kerry simplified some things and
made it easier on people, or he's just got a a clearer sense
of what this team can do. And what needs to be called in
certain situations. It's clearly not perfect.
It can clearly be blown up, but I think a lot of that is
offensive line related items as much as it is play calling
items. And I think Kerry deserves a ton
of credit for at least making this offense that for all the
world, looked completely lost over the course of a few weeks
to suddenly get functional again and so.
You know, I I still don't know that that's the best long term
solution, but it's certainly working in the short term and
that's really all that matters right now.
So right. So yeah, I know Indiana wins and
you know, two game-winning streak against Wisconsin.
You know last time that Indiana had a two game-winning streak
yet to go all the way back to the late 80s, early 90s when
they won. I'm sorry.
Well they they did it twice, late early 80s, early 90s.
They had a 5 game-winning streak from 1986 to 1992, and they had
that weird two game stretch. In 2001 and 2002, where they won
in Antoine's last year and they won in Jerry Dinardo's first
year. But you know, just nice to see
Indiana finally get their 20th win in the series against
Wisconsin. That was what we saw there last
night. Or yesterday schedule next year,
like now that we own them like we.
Get more Wisconsin. Come on, bring bring Wisconsin
on. That's what we need at this
point. Yeah, it's hilarious.
But, but now, so this brings up the larger point that I think
everybody's asking is like. Is Indiana going to be able to
figure out a way to get to a bowl?
And as fanciful as that sounds, as much as we kind of, you know,
poked fun at the idea, so much of it predicated on winning this
game against Wisconsin. And they did.
And now you look at this stretch that's coming up, you play an
incredibly mercurial Illinois. Team.
That yeah, came back and won at the last second against
Minnesota, but for all rights should have lost that game.
A Michigan State team that shown signs of life, but I was also
shown signs of not life. And then you've got a Purdue
team that just looks dead in the water.
That's your run out you you need to win three in order to get to
6 and six. And you know, certainly you're
looking at like the Quick Lane Bowl as a result of that.
That's fine, but it's interesting because when I think
about this IU team. They do seem to be believing a
little bit in themselves and they've got to leave home twice.
But those games are Illinois and Purdue.
You got Michigan State, A-Team. You already know that you know
how to beat. I'm not going to wager on
Indiana doing this, Scott, but it's not unprecedented.
And as we've talked about, I mean, if you go back to that
2015 season for Indiana, people forget that yes, Indiana went to
a bowl. They started that season four
and O. Then they lost six games in a
row. Before coming back and winning
their final two, to get to 6 and six, this would be a little bit
different. They'd have to win their final
four, but it's not unprecedented.
It would just be really surprising given what this team
looked like just a couple of weeks ago.
So I go to the I'm happy you brought this up.
There's a question that you had in your your pre game podcast.
I forget, Patrick, I believe the question was basically like, you
know, they win the next four and win a bowl.
Like how do you feel? Basically, how do you feel?
Like it was kind of contract base, but how do you feel about
things? And I thought about that a lot.
And it was like predicated on, like you said, winning this one,
which we did, which is great. You know, this.
I think it would, it would be awesome for us to win four in a
row. I go back and if we do it, I
still stand by everything that we've said throughout this year
that, you know, based on the analytics and based on what we
were seeing, it seemed very unlikely.
You know, and even going to this Wisconsin game, I don't know a
lot of people who are like, Oh yeah, we're going to take him
down. It's like it's just like it
didn't statistically, it didn't seem like it was there.
It seems like we might between Penn State and Wisconsin we
might be turning the corner and and you know some of the belief
and some of what makes Allen great as a coach is kind of when
things are rolling in the right direction and he gets that
belief and people can be better than the sum of their parts.
That's where some really good things can happen.
And when he has some coordinators who seem to know
what they're doing, like, you know, the pieces may have
started to be put in the right place.
You know, my my thing is, and I'm, you know, still very happy
to beat Wisconsin. I'm happy with the win is I
would say that, you know, we're still in that category.
Like you got to go out and get it done.
And I I think, you know, asking for a bowl out of this team is a
very tall order. That said, you know, if if they
go and they just win one more game this year, it's like, all
right, you kind of matched last year.
And then it's like, what what quite are we doing?
And this was always my issue with the Archie era is you know
when you disappoint below expectations you can't then just
come at exactly get AC grade and get expectations and expect like
all right, well we're good. Like hey we beat Wisconsin.
We won you know two Big 10 games like, all right, that's that's
not good enough. Like you were below.
Now you do average like one of these years you got to go above
and that, that's what I look at This year's like.
This is a great opportunity that if they do win out and they go
to a bowl, it's like that. That's great.
You've now built back some of that trust.
But I mean, I think this is where, you know, this is the
reality of what the last 2 1/2 years has done is a lot of
people just checked out and a lot of people were pissed, a lot
of people were not there. And so to just be like, hey, we
won a game, like, why isn't everybody back?
It's like it's going to take time.
Like you have to do something that's a little bit unexpected.
Winning four of your last Big 10 games, two on the road, one
against Wisconsin. You go out and do that and like
you said, you go to whatever the Quick Lane Bowl.
That's something like that's not nothing.
Now you go do it. Now if you do, if they don't.
And then by the way, you'd also win 2 rivalry games, you'd win
the bucket. And they're like, there's a lot
that is there and available. It looks like this team is in
the mental headspace for maybe they're going to go get it.
And I think that would be good. But it's, you know, when, when
you have 2 1/2 years of just under expectations and people
kind of check it out, people looking at contracts and
thinking of, you know, God, this is awful.
It's like, it is really tough to get out of that mentality.
And there is a world where, you know, this is probably a more
offseason topic, but it's like there's a world where you know,
it's once people check out once, you'll make up their mind.
It's hard to switch them back. You have to do more than than
you expect, but that's, I don't know a lot there.
But I do think that if they they win this out and go to a bowl, I
think there's really something there.
If they win one more and miss the mark, I don't think that's
awful, but I also don't think that's cause for a massive
celebration either. Yeah, it's it's an interesting
thing because I agree with all of that and I think it's
important to note that IU. This is how easy it is to be the
head coach at Indiana University.
Indiana won a six point game against a relatively crippled
opponent. And we're jumping up and down
for joy and we're talking about how excited we are and and and
the Twitterverse was was ecstatic.
In all the positive ways, like Dabo Sweeney who's won two
titles and is like four and four before going to the and people's
like he's getting calls for his head and it's like it's so
different anyway. It's it's it's so easy just to
give Indiana fans just just a little bit of optimism.
Just a little bit of reason to feel like they they they enjoy
rooting for their team and everybody's happy.
And that's what we've always said and this is, it's
fascinating like you know the the, the win against Wisconsin
is great. It's such a small step, but it's
a it is a gesture of goodwill. It's a demonstration that yes,
you're rooting for something that can occasionally be
successful and everybody's just like, yeah, this is great.
So even with this bowl thing, is Indiana going to win their last
three? It seems unlikely.
However I think that Indiana like you know the the question
from the the the earlier podcast that you're asking about was was
the the the subtext was eventually well, I mean is it a
bad thing if Indiana wins their last three because that would
trigger the automatic contract extension for Tom Allen and and
my response is look if Tom Allen can really do the following a
win the last four games of the season including a game against
Wisconsin. A trophy game against Michigan
State and a trophy game on the road against Purdue.
I have no problem with the contract extending another year
if if he suddenly demonstrates that he can do that.
I think the problem for us and what we've what we kind of
banged on over and over is that the way the program has
conducted itself over the course of the last several years,
basically the last 2 1/2 years up till yesterday.
Was a team that either showed up DOA or was good for 1/2 and then
couldn't sustain, which is a pretty important part of winning
a football game, as you know, being able to sustain for a full
60 minutes, if Indiana suddenly is like, hey, we're going to go
out and we're going to win games against teams that are more or
less at our level, that's all anybody has asked for from
Indiana football. Nobody's demanding that Indiana
football go out and win. 10 games a year, or even 8 games a
year. IU fans want a bowl appearance,
IU fans want to beat Purdue, IU fans want to beat Michigan
State, and IU fans don't want to look like a complete
laughingstock in the conference. If you can do that, extend them
to Infinity as far as I'm concerned, because that's what
you need. Out of this program, I agree 100
percent, 100% like I was. I thought it was a great
question. I was thinking about it.
It's like, yeah, if if you know an average season is 6 and six
and a bowl, it's like whoever does that year over year over
year, extend them every single year because you'll have some
years or maybe you get to 5, five and four wins, but you'll
have some worries. You get to 7 and eight like the
the, the if the mean is 6 and six and a bowl, then yes, at IU
I would take that every year. When you start the year it's
like, hey, we're going to, we're going to go to a bowl.
Done. Like I will take that because I
know that's a good, just like, you know for some teams going to
the NCLA tournament, it's like a yes.
So I don't care who the coaches if he can do that then extend
him every single time he does that.
But to your point I just there's nothing that shows that that was
going to happen up until this and it's still it's I'm still
not wouldn't put money on it that it's going to happen but it
definitely seems more plausible than did two weeks ago.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, ultimately you're
still talking about a program that has won, what, now three of
its last 22 games in the conference.
I mean, it's that's so you'd be doubling, right?
You know, which again great if you can pull the program out of
the tailspin, but you know we're not, we're not sitting here
saying yes, extend Tom Allen, but it would be an automatic
thing if they managed to go 6:00 and 6:00 at the end of the
season based upon the contract. And and my point is, the whole
reason that that incentive is in the contract is to reward you
for doing what is essentially what should be the baseline for
IU football and. I'm not going to get overly
excited about the prospects based upon this, but I think
you'd be foolish and overly pessimistic to not highlight the
fact that the next three games that Indiana plays are against
teams that have not looked very good this season and.
Certainly beatable teams. I mean, one of the things that
stuck out to me as I was prepping for this Wisconsin game
and why I almost picked Indiana to do the upset, I ended up just
picking them to cover. I was pretty close on that.
I think my final score prediction was 2317 Wisconsin,
but it was was it. Wisconsin had trouble scoring.
You know, their average scoring I think was around 21 points a
game. They're about to play an
Illinois team who is averaging 21 points per game this season.
And and it's an Illinois team that has struggled to get out of
its own way at times. It's an Illinois team that lost
to this Wisconsin team last week at home 25 to 21.
You play a Michigan State team that's only averaging 18 points
a game, giving up 26. A Michigan State team that lost
six games in a row before springing the upset at home
against Nebraska. You're playing a Purdue team
that's averaging 20.9 points a game on a current four-game
losing streak, 2 and seven overall, and a team that's
giving up 31 points a game. I mean, you know, for all the
people who argued that I use, results were as a as a matter of
their schedule. I mean, first of all, you lost
at home to Rutgers and he got blown out by a Maryland team
that you know, appear it was to just have completely given up on
the season the way that they looked yesterday against Penn
State. I have a hard time buying that
argument. I you almost lost to Akron as
well. But that was before if Indiana
has figured out how to manage things moving forward.
You couldn't have asked for a softer runway to close out the
season than what Indiana's got in front of them.
It's this is. It's one of the most fascinating
tests of the Tom Allen era that's coming up here.
Can Indiana actually figure out how to put it together in
consecutive games? Again, I don't think that
they'll be able to, but that's because we've not seen them be
able to up to this point, at least not with this particular
collection of players and this collect particular collection of
coaches. But it's certainly not out of
the realm of possibility. They've they've got to clean
some things up. They've got to play better
frankly than they played in this game.
But the fact that there are guys out there for Indiana, as you
mentioned earlier, who are still dialed in, who are still out
there making plays, this was what we kept talking about,
Scott. It's like will this team show a
pulse the way they did down the stretch last year.
And I think this is almost a, you know, you're at least still
in bowl contention. You know it's three and six.
Last year I think the problem was they won that Michigan State
game and it didn't matter because they weren't going to a
bowl regardless. And you know, even with that
they they were up for that Purdue game at least in the
first half. So that's where I think there is
some room for optimism, but I would certainly not predict it.
Now if they beat Illinois, I think that's a different story,
but I think that's going. To be a real tough game for
them. I'm going to take the other
might sound is more optimistic like even if they lose to you
know and I know we're like bowl is kind of a focus because it's
something I I would say this even if they lose to Illinois
there's still a lot to play for the rest of the year because.
You like you said, I mean I think Illinois is probably the
toughest. I think it just gets
progressively easier as you go toward the end of the year.
If you lose to Illinois, you still have two rivalry games on
your schedule, one of which is Purdue, which is always a big
thing to win. And if you and you know it's
like you're you're playing probably the biggest hot mess of
a program in Michigan State. A, a program which you know as
as we restructure the Big 10 like Purdue, Michigan State,
like those are the programs you got to get ahead like we're not
you know? I'm not going to sit here and
say, all right, you know now we're ahead of Wisconsin in the
Pecky or the Big 10 like. But you know, we beat Michigan
State, that's, you know, two wins.
I think that's, you know, over the last seven or eight years,
you know that puts us at 500 against them.
You know that's that's a good win against a A-Team that's down
like another win you can get against a down team.
You beat Purdue. That's a rivalry win against
your your rival and then if you now you now have three Big Ten
wins, which is more than last year, that's not.
Cause for celebration, but it's like you are taking incremental
steps. And so I look at it that even if
they lose to Illinois there is still a lot to play for even if
as you said like the quick lanes bowl is off the table.
You know, So I I do agree with you.
I think this is kind of a pivotal point of the the Allen,
the Allen era, because if they, you know, there's a couple
different options here. But if they win one more game to
finish this year, this season out, it's kind of like, all
right, well. It'd be kind of like the end of
last year. It's like, all right, well, that
didn't really you. You look at, you look, that's
suddenly, suddenly the Wisconsin game is just in a context.
Of, Well, Indiana. Good.
Had a good day. And Wisconsin's bad, but if if
they went out and go to a bowl, you know, I I do think this is
where you could look at, you know, this is where Allen looked
into the abyss and was had his back as far against the wall as
you could and he was able to pull it out.
Yeah, I mean, I I think the comp right now without any other
context for this Indiana win over Wisconsin is it's not too
different from the Illinois win last year where first game of
the season they knock off Illinois.
Illinois goes on to have a really good season.
Probably should have gone to the the Big 10 championship game if
they hadn't lost late in the season and Purdue hadn't won.
And then you you had that win at Michigan State.
But Michigan State was kind of crumbling at that point.
But that was the context of all of those wins.
I mean, everything else was a loss.
Some of them were close losses, like the Maryland game and the
Rutgers game. Some of them were blowouts like
the Ohio State game down the stretch or the Penn State game.
And so that's where I'm not going to jump out in front of
the parade here. Let's let's see what they do.
And that's the big thing. I mean, Indiana just has not
demonstrated an ability to put two wins together and you have
to go, obviously Scott, back to the end of the 2020 season to
the last time that Indiana even won two consecutive Big 10
games. When's the last time Indiana's
won Four consecutive Big 10? It was that same season 'cause
they started off. They beat Penn State, Rutgers,
Michigan and Michigan State. But if you go back before that,
the last time Indiana won four consecutive Big 10 games was
actually the 2019 season. It was that magical stretch
where they they blanked Rutgers, they won at Maryland, they went
on the road and won at Nebraska after Pennix got injured and
Ramsey had to come in and quarterback.
And then they came home and they destroyed Northwestern.
They won those four games in a row.
And that was really what sealed their appearance in the Gator
Bowl that year. And they, you know, obviously
they'd win the Purdue game at the very end of the season, but
that's frankly from a quality perspective.
That stretch that I just said there is essentially what you'd
be facing in this four-game stretch.
The difference is that was a much better team.
That was a team that had a lot of talent on it.
It had a proven play caller. It had a an up and coming
defensive coordinator who was just really hitting his stride.
And it had an offense that was capable of scoring over 30
points a game, which it did in each of those four.
Whereas this season, you know, if you take out the Indiana
State game, Indiana hasn't eclipsed the 30 point mark the
entire season. Now what is promising is that
after a stretch of not being able to even get over the 20
point mark, Indiana has now scored 24 points and then 20
points in the last two games. So there are some signs of
improvement and I think it's reasonable, especially with how
Donovan Mcculley is starting to play, especially with how
Soresby starting to get more comfortable with his receipt
being. Targeted, but yes, well, yes,
that too. But, but you know that catch he
made, that was one of the greatest catches I've seen an
Indiana wide receiver make like ever that that one in the end
zone. And he almost had another one on
the previous drive. You know, the fact that you
you're starting to get a little of comfort here because now
Soresby's actually gotten consistent.
Reps and has actually gotten a chance to work with his wide
receivers. That's really promising.
I don't Extra Williams interest music.
Dexter, is that you coming out? Sorry.
Just like once we get consistency, it feels like we're
gonna throw it in. Sorry.
I know. And look, I'll commend Alan and
the coaching staff for resisting the temptation when the offense
hasn't gone the way they wanted to in the last couple of games.
They've just been like, well, we're going to stick the course
here because they need to. That has to be how you conduct
the course. Do that.
Yes. You have a young quarterback
who's still learning the game. I am really impressed up to this
point with with how Brandon Soresby has has managed to
figure out how to not make a lot of mistakes.
I mean, you look down the stretch here, he has one
interception all season on 139 attempts.
He's only completing 55% of his passes.
But in the last two games he's completed 68.4% of his passes
and 61.3% of his passes. And Scott?
That will get the job done. Well, it's it's not the best
comp. Because they they are totally
different quarterbacks. But it does remind me of Peyton
Ramsey a little bit. Ramsey didn't have a cannon, but
he was very consistent and he didn't make a lot of mistakes.
He's able to move his legs. Maybe it's actually not that bad
of a comp, but it's like you can go to the Gator Bowl.
I mean, I know that was half, half panic that year, but you
know that team was led by and went to the Gator Bowl and
probably should, you know, could have won the Gator Bowl with
with with Ramsey as quarterback. So you don't need, you know, a
Heisman level quarterback there to to have the kind of success
that we're looking for or to have the success against the
three teams that we have. There's no knock.
It's his first year. I mean, he could grow into that.
But yeah, I mean he's doing all the things that a quarterback at
Indiana needs to do. So as we wrap up the, the
football portion of the podcast you had, did you have something
that you were going to mention from earlier that I remembered
or have we already blown past that?
We we blew past that. It was the IT was the bowl
thing. It was the four games of the
bowl. Well, again, just just to note
for everybody, IU now three and six on the season, they pick up
their first win in the conference, which is why it's
ridiculous that we're talking about Indiana potentially going
to a bowl because it's a long way away.
But it is still a possibility and you do have the softest part
of the schedule coming up in the next few.
Weeks, just because it's still available, would it like just
because we have one week where we may not be able to do it next
week, would it be the quick Lane?
But like what what, what ball would we be looking at going to?
It's not the Rose Bowl, Crimson Peter Bowl or the Outback Bowl.
I'm giving you time to search it, but so we'll take those out,
probably not the Citrus Bowl. Where are we looking at?
Well, long long time Crimson cast supporter Jordan Bailey has
put together a a list of all of the games that Indiana might be
in and So what he's he is pretty much as he sketched it out he he
does see the Quick Lane Bowl as the most likely candidate which
would be the day after Christmas the 26th up in Detroit against
the Max school. Now the other the other thing to
keep in mind though is a a bowl eligible Big 10 team is going to
make a bowl in this day and age, regardless of whether it's one
of the automatic tie insurance or whether it's one of the bowls
that ends up having a spot that doesn't get filled.
I mean the the the, the list of Jordan sent us, you've obviously
got the College Football Playoff, which could include
both Michigan State or excuse me, both Michigan and Ohio
State. Sorry, you've got Penn State
likely going to a New Year 6 bowl.
Then you'd have the Citrus Bowl, which probably would be Iowa.
You have the Reliaquest Bowl, which I think is the old Outback
Bowl, which would probably in Jordan's sketch, be Rutgers.
You've got the Music City Bowl, which, let's say Minnesota.
You've got the Vegas Bowl, which would be, let's say Maryland.
You've got the Pinstripe Bowl, which would probably be like
Wisconsin. You've got the Guaranteed Rate
bowl which would probably be Illinois maybe depending on how
the seat in Nebraska, Illinois one of those two and then you
get the quick Lane Bowl which could be Indiana.
But there will be other opportunities potentially if you
get to 6:00 and 6:00 because six and six you're going to be
somewhat of an attractive team in as much as you're four and
five in your conference at that point.
And you know I I have a hard time seeing an Indiana team that
almost went 500 in conference be left out.
Again, not predicting it, not expecting it, but the path is
there. Yeah, and and the the, you know,
beggars can't be choosers. There is a world where if you go
to the Quick Lane Bowl, you know it's the other thing.
It's like. I'm saying like, it gives you a
chance to get a win in a bowl, which is like, yes, that's what
I was saying. It's like you you need to pick
up a win in a bowl game so that people can stop saying, oh, the
last time India won in a bowl was 1991 was 91.
But you know, it's get those macros out.
Then all that's left, the only other one that that Indiana
would have to take care of is finally beating Ohio State.
So we could put that dumb, dumb record to bed, but but that's
that's what needs to happen and that's great.
Look, again, in a season that was literally DOADOA left for
dead side of the road. Like, please, someone tow this
thing to. To resurrect to the point where
you would be in any sort of postseason action would be a
huge accomplishment. And again, I'm not predicting
it, but I think we need to talk about it.
So yeah, it's a fascinating time, it really is.
And we'll see what Indiana is able to do.
I think Illinois is going to be loaded for Bear in this game
that they play next week, and obviously we'll talk about it a
lot more in depth when we get to it.
Illinois's had a weird season. You know, they they they've
they've been all over the map in terms of their results and it's
hard to say exactly how that game would go.
It's it'll be an interesting one.
It's one of those where I actually, I don't think I'm
going to be able to make it, but I think that's the kind of game
that if you could make it as an Indiana fan, I'd recommend
getting over there. It's not that if you live in
this area, it's not that far to get to Champaign and right now
the get in price for that game is $8.
It is, it is not a hot ticket in Champaign Urbana right now to go
to an Illinois football game. And I mean even relatively
decent seats you could get like you know visitor, sideline,
lower bowl, that's $35 a ticket, $28.00 a ticket.
I mean that's a pretty reasonable price, so.
And you look at the grading like Pro Football Focus like they are
Indiana. You know, on defense we are, we
are 8:00 and 9:00 in the Big 10 On offense, their 7th or 10th,
but it's not that statistically far off.
You know this is this is a this is definitely a win.
I mean you know Illinois, you know Illinois offense is below
Rutgers in in in grading. So it's it is not a bridge too
far $8 to get in. That's wild.
Yeah, it is pretty wild. Just a reminder, Indiana is
still three and six and their wins on the season have been
Indiana State, Akron and Wisconsin.
So not to throw too much water on the fire.
With a huge asterisk. Yes.
Just just a you know, so but nonetheless.
But again you're you're dealing with games against Illinois,
Michigan State and Purdue and you know it's it's worth noting
Illinois. Four wins are Toledo, Florida
Atlantic, Maryland and Minnesota.
Not exactly a murderer's row. And their two Big Ten wins have
come by a grand combined total of four points.
So. And and again, like the last
thing I'll say is like what you have in front of you is like you
you had a wounded Wisconsin team, you took care of business
like Illinois is different, but you have a Michigan State team
that is like just been a dumpster fire all season having
all kinds of problems that's available to you.
You have a Purdue team with a new coach is having issues like
you know when you look at programs that are consistent or
just kind of average? They have these years where it's
like Oh yeah, you know they they they beat a bunch of kind of
bad. They were the best of the worst
teams. They went, you know, seven and
five or six and six and went to a kind of, you know what you
consider a low end bowl. But it's like they they did all
that and that's something. We have it in front of us.
We have one of those seasons in front of us where it's like
everything broke our way. A bunch of the teams we're
playing are having external issues.
Just capitalize on it. Yeah, and they but they did they
they did one. That's awesome.
Go do go go to the next one anyway, that'll wrap up.
Our podcast extravaganza Today again, Indiana wins against
Wisconsin 20 to 14. Two wins in a row against
Wisconsin. Only the 4th win against
Wisconsin since 1993. So good to see that happen.
I know it's what and a Big Ten win?
Yes. Another another one.
That's that's that's three now in the last season and 1/2 for
Indiana. So always stuff to to celebrate
here anyway. We'll go ahead and wrap up
again. Just a reminder folks, we got a
ton of content coming up for you later this week.
We're going to have our first regular season IU Men's
Basketball Podcast as the Hoosiers are back on the court
for real, this time against Florida Gulf Coast.
On Tuesday night. We will recap that game and talk
a little bit about how we feel after the first two preseason
games. And that one will have the
Crimson Cast Women's Basketball Show coming up later this week
as Amanda Foster and Kevin Vera bring you the latest from the
ladies. We've got, of course, Crimson
Cash where money can be made and will be made.
And we've got the preview show for IU football as they get
ready to take on the Illinois Fighting Illini.
Scott, anything else from you before we wrap up?
No, man. Big Ten win.
Big 10 win. We love them anyway.
For our friends at the Back Home Network, for our presenting
sponsor home field apparel and for all you folks that have
listened to us over the years and continue to listen, thank
you, appreciate it. For Scott, I'm Galen, this is
Crimson Cast. We'll catch you folks on the
flip side, bring back the Bison. So on everybody.