You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast,
GAIL and. Clavio solo here for a short
pod, we've got the bulk of our. Programming going on.
Live Today in Bloomington. Recording this at 9:30-ish.
On the morning of. Saturday, February 8th.
If you're going to be in. Bloomington, we hope.
To see you later. Today, hopefully you're getting
a chance to listen to this. Maybe you're driving to the
game, maybe you're just hanging out at home.
But I will be. At the upstairs.
Pub along with Scott from Crimson Cast during the game
we'll be talking about everything and we'll also be
kind of narrating the game and we'll do a little bit of a
halftime podcast and then after the game at the upstairs.
Pub we'll have. The assembly call crew, we'll
have the doing. The work crew, or at least part
of them. And several.
Other of our favorite folks. From the back home network.
All at the upstairs pub. The event today.
Sponsored. By Jack Fire Breakfast.
Club going on as we speak the. T-shirts.
They've always got T-shirts. Crimson Cast will be selling
some T-shirts today if you want to pick up one of the iconic
bison Tees. They'll be for sale.
And we just would love to see you.
Folks and. Chat about IU basketball, we've
got a lot. To talk about now, we were going
to have a. Lot to talk about.
Anyway, but maybe the tone a little bit milder than it might
have been otherwise with the news that came out yesterday,
which is one of the things I'm going to talk about here in just
a second. But hopefully you can join us at
Upstairs Pub, the event sponsored by Jack Daniels Fire.
And we're really looking forward to being out there, so hopefully
you'll be able to join us as well.
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I. Apparently people in the
audience think if I don't mention X's and Joe's I might
not like be on bad. Terms with them Nonsense.
We actually just had a. Great night with with Bob and
with Mike. Last night and we.
Went out and had some drinks at Nick's it.
Was a great time. And at least 2.
People at the table. Were wearing home field apparel
which is what made me think of that right there including.
Myself so. We're we're really excited.
About the new releases that home field Apparel's got coming out
during the the spring, they just.
Released some Creighton apparel. They'll be more IU stuff I think
on its way, relatively. Soon.
And of course. If you saw earlier this week the
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subscriber list? All right, we got to talk.
About the big news, I've had people.
Banging on the door. Asking when are you guys going
to podcast about Woodson? And.
Scott and I are going to have some extensive.
Thoughts that will probably. Pot on Sunday about so stay
tuned for that I'm I want to get.
Scott's full thoughts. On this, we've obviously been
circling around this situation for quite a while, but I wanted
to get something briefly out. Before the festivities got
started today and just. Talk a little bit about the
sequencing of all of this and just what to think about
everything, including how to think about the coaching search
as it is now, I guess underway it.
It's interesting because I think anybody who watched the
Wisconsin game. You could see that.
Opening was just. Kind of like the the bad dream
of the Louisville. Game come back to life.
Again. And you know.
Illinois game was the same way. It's just.
Clear that this this. Team and this coach were not on
the same page. Hadn't been, really.
For the whole season. And you know you.
You go down the list of of games.
This year, that IU. Could point to as
accomplishments. There's one and it's the game at
Ohio State, and it was a game that they almost blew.
The rest of the. Season has just been really
disappointing they've. Beaten pretty much everybody.
That they should beat and they've lost to pretty much
everybody. That you would have thought
they. Would have lost.
To and that. Follows a pattern that we saw
last year where you know, you really, you go down the list of
games Indiana won and lost. You could point to the Wisconsin
and Michigan State games at home as being perhaps you know,
something small to get excited about.
But it was a very similar pattern last year, like just go
down the list. The The best teams that Indiana
beat is generally at Assembly Hall, and they just didn't do
enough to compete for a tournament spot.
And that was the. Trajectory this team was on this
year and it was getting ugly with Woodson being on the bench
and fans getting more and more upset.
And it, you know, this is one of those situations where I think
IU fans, there are certainly IU fans that don't behave well
online. That's been the case ever since
I've been online. I mean, I can still remember as
a young like 1516 year old in the very early days of the
Internet hopping on what at the time were the Indy Star forums
and just being like my God, this is the IU fanbase.
And of course, it's just a small.
Subset of the. Online fanbase, but we were
starting to see some. Spillover in terms of.
Just people getting really. Frustrated.
Like otherwise very reasonable normal people.
Just really. Done with this team, with this
coach. With the way that.
The program has been. Run and.
You know, I, I this was a. Potential flashpoint this
weekend with Dusty May coming back to town having turned
around Michigan, you know, not into a national title contender,
but turn them around quite a bit from what they were last year
and IU. Despite all the.
Promises that were made about a roster that was going to compete
and potentially be able to win a Big 10 title.
Or or get to. The Sweet 16 or beyond, clearly
stuck in the mud. You know, you, you've seen the
empty seats if you've been to Assembly Hall this season, Even
in, in, you know, games against Big 10 opponents.
You've you've felt the. Awkward energy.
You've heard some of the booing. It's just not.
Sustainable and it's. Starting to spill over into
players getting directly. Criticized and harassed.
And you know. Whatever you want to say about
how people conduct themselves. Or or you know whether.
That's just a an unrepresentative group of a
small number. Of people, the reality is it it
all still. Matters and.
I think IU just found themselves in a position where you know
they needed to find a solution that tried to.
Let Mike Woodson walk. Away with dignity.
But also ensured that he realized.
He needed to walk away and I think that that's really what.
Happened over the last couple of days.
You know you. Got a lot of.
Rumors flying around during. That whole process.
About what was going on and, you know, there were.
Rumors Woodson was going to. Walk.
Away immediately and not. Coach, there were rumors that
you. Know there was.
Going to be some kind of an agreement or something announced
on Thursday and then, you know, you got that weird leak at the
end of the. Day that Pete Thamel had and
Jeff Goodman had. About there being your
contemplations about whether Woodson was going to return, I
think anybody who was paying any.
Level of attention. Realized that was it was a flag.
Saying hey. We're almost ready.
To announce something. Please hold off for a little bit
while we work out the details. You know those things, those
things end up in the hands of media members that are kind of
attached to. Traditional.
Media outlets, let's put it that way.
For a reason and those sorts. Of announcements or at least the
animation that there's going to be something or that there's
thoughts happening. That's always something that
lays the groundwork. Those things don't come out
accidentally. And then yesterday again.
Rumors back and. Forth yesterday, of course.
Being Friday and then the. Culmination at 4:00.
Of a very. Interesting release.
Press release. From Scott Dolson regarding Mike
Woodson. Which I thought tried to put as
positive of. The spin on the situation as
possible, which is certainly understandable, very much a call
for unity as Indiana. Goes into this final.
Stretch. Run of the season, you know.
Eight games remaining and. Indiana still.
With an outside chance of making the NCAA tournament, I know a.
Lot of people laugh about that, but it's.
True, and you know that is something to.
Strive for regardless. Of what's going on?
And and yet I think there were IU fans that.
Felt morally compelled to. Root against their own team on
the off chance that if they did make the tournament, that Mike
Davis or Mike, I said it, I did it again.
I did it in the last podcast. Too, that Mike Woodson, you
know, might be retained if they made the.
The tournament. The reason I keep.
Saying Mike. Davis is this scenario.
Happened almost. Exactly like this. 19 years ago.
I'm going to get to that in a second.
But that's why that name keeps. Popping up for those who noticed
it on The Last Podcast. I do think that it's it's.
Very telling. To be that the.
The statement that came out was missing 1.
Thing that you would normally. See in a statement of that type.
Which is any kind of. Quote from the coach.
It's very I'm not. Going to say it's rare, but in
a. Case where a coach.
Is voluntarily walking away. There's normally like a.
Press conference there's. Normally a statement of some
sort that goes into. The the press release.
From the coach himself. Like saying like.
Here's here's how it. Is I'm honored to have.
Been the head. Coach at IU basketball.
I regret it not working out. We hope to finish off the season
strong. I do think it's really
fascinating that that did not occur and.
I think it illustrates probably that this.
Was not an easy last couple of days.
In a in. Cook Hall or in the the North
End zone. Facility at Memorial Stadium.
Where the athletic offices are, I don't have any inside info on
that. I haven't talked to anybody, but
just you can read the tea leaves and you can kind of see this.
Was not. Something that everybody was
completely aligned with, I think, but it kind of doesn't
matter and. If you recall like.
Three weeks ago. Maybe 4 weeks ago.
We did a podcast where I talked about that.
Particularly and this idea that there.
Was going to have to be some kind of a a coming.
Together of these. Two entities of IU and Mike
Woodson. Because Mike Woodson did not
seem. To think that.
You know, the struggles the team was having.
Were enough to. Rise to the level.
Where he might be. Fired he.
Certainly didn't seem like he was in any rush to walk away and
I think. IU understanding that.
You had a potential conflagration on your hands,
with the IU fanbase getting increasingly.
Frustrated about how the. Season is going and.
Just being like we got to find a.
Solution to this SO. We'll see how today goes.
I'm really. Fascinated especially with the
lack of a statement. From Woodson I mean, does he do
a post? Game press conference.
What is that? Like what does he choose to say
there? You know Woodson.
Is. I mean, he's.
A proud man. He's he's a guy.
That, you know, obviously. He's been coaching at at very in
various capacities for a long. Time and.
This is probably. I think in his mind it's
probably going to be the end of the road to some degree.
I have a hard time seeing him being a head coach again.
So I'm really curious. To see what that.
Reaction looks like and you know, it's unfortunate that it
had to end this way, but I do commend Woodson and IU for
finally doing what needed to be done and and.
Realizing that this wasn't. Going to work out.
And the longer it lingered, the worse it was going to get.
And that's essentially where things are at right now.
Obviously, I think we'll. Learn more about what.
Happened with the. Process both.
Officially and unofficially over the course of the next.
Couple of weeks. But to some degree, I don't know
that any of that matters at this point.
What matters now is that Indiana.
Is going. To have to look forward and
figure out what they're going to do with their head coaching
position. I've seen this sentiment
expressed in a bunch of different places and I.
Agree this is a. Higher Indiana just.
Simply, absolutely. Positively.
Cannot get wrong you've. Had multiple hires now that have
not worked out. Some of them are.
Justifiable hires that were just.
Things that didn't work. Others were hires that.
Shouldn't have been made and. Regardless of who was to blame.
Or or why things didn't work out.
With the previous hires. Including the Mike Woodson.
Hire. The reality is the Indiana.
Basketball brand is pretty tarnished right now and when you
are. Looking at the results and you
look at what IU has done over the course of the last.
Really 20? Years.
It's a really, really barren covered.
It's it's, it's unfortunate in the extreme.
That IU basketball. And and the brand.
Of IU basketball is deteriorated to the way.
That it has and. You know one of the people we're
going to talk about. About this whole situation, he
wrote. A really good piece.
On on his, I think it was on actually.
The assembly call Sub stack Tony Adronia.
Who I also had dinner with last night.
We had a nice get together at the Back Home Network crew in
Bloomington. But you know, Tony wrote a piece
which I want to go into depth with with.
Him about how? At the end of the.
Day This has just been a series of bad hires.
There's nothing structurally wrong.
With IU. It's an easy excuse.
That's made by people who are generally trying to find.
Excuses for coaches. That aren't getting it done at a
particular level. And we've heard complaints, you
know, Tom Crean behind the scenes complained that IU was
stuck in the past. And you know Archie Miller.
You know people. Blamed IU.
Having too high of. Expectations, but people are
blamed. That on Mike Woodson.
Not being successful. It's all hogwash.
I mean, IU is. One of the most.
Well resourced. Programs in the country and.
IU is a program. That.
For better or for? Worse, and I would actually, I
think, argue. For worse, hires coaches.
And and honestly lets them do what they want.
Lets them. Create their own.
Programs like this. Idea that there's all of these
roadblocks. To what coaches want or need to.
Do especially in this. Era where you can openly pay.
Players, it's pretty. Ludicrous as far.
As I'm concerned Indiana's just made hires that haven't worked.
Out at this level. And that's the simplest
explanation. I know a lot of people want to
throw a bunch of other things in there, but really it just comes
down to that you got to. Make the right hire.
And you've got to make sure that that person has a vision, and
you've got to make sure that that person can correctly and
adequately describe what they're doing.
To a fan base that. You know, isn't the.
The the hugest. Experts on basketball,
necessarily. Across the board, but.
It's a knowledgeable fan base that.
Sees through teams that. Aren't playing hard or or
coaches that are devising schemes that aren't going to
work. In the long term.
And you know it's. It's it's it's.
Going to be a fascinating process.
I've had a lot of people asking me what do you think?
Who they're going to hire? I have no idea at this point.
I do think it's. It's.
Going to be a search that will probably.
Go in some unexpected directions and I think ultimately when you
look at the way that IU sits in the landscape.
It's funny because we've already got the duality of the.
Way the media in the college basketball media.
Love to talk about? IU in one breath.
It's like IU fans have two IA. Standards and and they need.
To get over the fact that. They're not a, they're not an
elite program anymore. They need to just.
Settle for whatever and then in the other breath.
They're throwing. You know Bruce, Pearl and Brad.
Stevens and and Dusty May, who's the head coach of the Big 10
team in in the coaching. Hot boards that they're.
Putting together and it's just. It's funny because like it's
either a bad job. Or it's not a bad job and every
piece of evidence points to it being one of the best jobs in
college. Basketball it just.
Hasn't been conducted particularly well and I would.
Just suggest to all of you as you try to sift through.
What has been a truly stupid 24 hours of.
Opening dialogue when? It comes to the coaching search.
Don't fall into the. Trap of IU.
Being, you know, essentially irredeemable.
As a a top. Basketball program in this era
all. The pieces are there.
And you got to keep in mind that a lot.
Of the. The comments that come.
From especially national media when it comes to any basketball
program, not just IU come from. Coaches.
Coaches are mostly. Interested in coaches.
They're mostly interested in maintaining their own
reputations and as we've talked. About on the show before coaches
love to. Blame factors beyond their
coaching for their lack. Of success.
And we've seen that at IU in. Both football and basketball
over the course of the last several years.
And then you, you bring like we always use IU football now as an
example, you bring in Kurt Signetti.
Suddenly, all those excuses. Didn't matter, and Indiana was
able to win very quickly with the right person in charge.
And I think the same. Applies to IU basketball.
I want to go back to something that I alluded to earlier.
Which I'm still chuckling about, which is mid February has.
Become. Kind of.
The the era, where are you as to kind of look?
Itself in the mirror you know that I mentioned the Mike Davis
resignation that. You know it wasn't.
Really, your resignation, it was well, you need to resign or
you're going to be fired. We want you to let you let you
go out on your own terms. That was a weird.
Experience when that occurred and I remember.
Very clearly like I was at. That Iowa game on a press.
Pass. Of when I when you know the
sports information office printed.
Off a bunch of. Pages and ran through the press
room 10 minutes before the game started, indicating that Mike
Davis was. Sick and was not.
Going to be coaching and we're having a conversation with a
student of mine. At halftime, who was?
Working in the Sports Information office.
And and that. Student kind of letting.
Me know like not. Actually sick.
We're just not sure what's going.
On right now and then the whole. Drama that plays out.
During that Penn State. Game where?
Seth Davis announces that Mike Davis isn't going.
To be coming back. As head coach, Davis being all
confused about it afterwards, and then the next day a press
conference where Davis announces his resignation and gets to.
Coach the rest of. The Season, and as many of you
remember it, back in 2006 like that.
That team rallied. They they they lost the next
game against Illinois, they won their.
Last four regular. Season games.
They won a Big 10 tournament game, probably should have won
another Big 10 tournament game and then won a game in the NCAA
tournament before losing to Gonzaga.
You know that season had a positive ending.
And the vibes were better because the pressure was.
Lifted and much like the current scenario where I think.
There were a. Lot of IU fans that.
Perhaps despite their their normal attitudes.
We're finding it very. Hard to root for this IU team
because of the style the the way the team is.
Played and and the just the confusion that's been seen and
the idea. That well, gosh, if.
This team happens to put together enough wins to get to
the tournament. Does that mean another year of
the Woodson era, which I think the vast majority of IU fans did
not want? So maybe you know.
As and we saw that same thing in in 2006, we saw that same thing
where, you know, Davis gets essentially.
Forced to. Resign and suddenly.
A lot of the pressures that existed around the IU
basketball. Program melted away and people
felt a little more confident about saying, yeah, this is
fine, we're going to try to root.
This team and this. Coach on because we know that
it'll be over and we'll have a new coach in a month, month and
1/2 and that's what happened. Of course, that new.
Coach ended up being. Kelvin Sampson which that.
That you talk about a. Sliding doors moment there, but
we can we can dive into that at another time.
So just just some thoughts I guess.
That I've had overall. You know, I think that.
These are. Going to be some interesting
days. Normally when a coach has gotten
fired. What happened?
With Archie when it. Happened with Crane.
We go on a Bender here with podcasts where we're
interviewing people left and right.
Normally, that's all. Happening really in a.
Compressed time period. Because coaches have gotten.
Fired like right before the NCAA tournament and you know, you got
about a week, maybe 2 before a new coach gets hired.
We're going to play it a little bit differently on Crimson Cast
this time. I still want to.
Bring all the stakeholders back. It's basically.
Getting the conclave together again.
Getting some of our favorite voices, many of whom we haven't
talked with in a. While about IU basketball.
Now that the pressure's off and we know there's going to be a
change and getting some thoughts.
About where IU basketball's at. Right now and where it might be
headed, where it should head and who might be the new head coach
and what that means for the disposition of the program.
So all that coming up and hopefully you can.
Join us at the upstairs pub. We'll start that process today
as we talked about IU basketball and.
Hopefully IU able to go out and beat Michigan and get
themselves. Back on the right track after
losing 6 out of their last seven games.
It's a winnable game. It's a Michigan team that
doesn't play. Particularly.
Well, on the road. So it'll be.
Fascinating to see what happens with all that.
But anyway. Join us at the upstairs pub.
Later on today as. I'll be there with.
Scott and then I'll be there with Coach Tonsone and Ryan
Phillips. Kathy Amos will be there.
Mike Wiemuth, Bob Moats. Tony Adrania, we'll.
Have the whole crew out there. I'm Galen Clavie.
This is Crimson Cast. Thanks for listening.
Have a safe drive every coming to Bloomington.
We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, stay never
daunted. Bring back the bison.
So long, everybody.