You're listening to the back home network, presented by home
field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson cast.
This is part one of our 2 episode Mega blowout reaction
podcast tonight. As there's some seismic news
going on in Indiana, country and big ten country in college
athletics in general, The NeverEnding, realignment, cycle
of college sports. Well, it still hasn't ended and
we got some pretty big news today that we're going to talk
about, and we're going to have Scott, and I King later, we're
going to do fact. We might do that Lyle.
I haven't quite decided yet. But you know, anytime there's
realignment news in college sports.
We got to bring our friend Zack back on the podcast.
I think we've done one of these every time.
There's been major realignment news since like two thousand
nine and so why stop the streak now Zach back?
Joining us again. How you doing?
Yeah, this is, this is more interesting than, like, TCU
joining the Big 12, so, you know, there's that we did, we
didn't, we didn't do this when the Sun Belt teams left to go
join Conference USA. It didn't that didn't quite
right rise to the bar that we needed.
No. And I consider that a great
personal failure. If we really want to get into
you know, things we regret you know.
I mean not as much as the Pac-12 might be regretting the entire
Larry Scott and her prize right now.
Yeah, worked out. Yeah we're going to talk, we're
going to go in depth, it's not gone.
Well, we're going in-depth on Larry, Scott here in a little
bit, but let's let's, let's start this from the very
beginning. So, today at about, I do one
o'clock in the afternoon, maybe a little bit later with.
There's a tweet that pops up. That says, well sources, say
that, USC, and UCLA to, of course, Los Angeles schools in
the Pac-12 are considering perhaps joining Calif.
That's in California. Why was I was just there, I was
there for a week and yes, I can definitely verify that l.a. is
in California, but we get this tweet that said, well, they're
considering joining the Big Ten. This comes largely.
Lee out of nowhere, at least in this news cycle.
Not so much out of nowhere, if you've been paying attention.
But there haven't been any inklings of this in the press.
And then within about what four hours it went from well, they're
considering maybe doing it and there might be interest to at
6:00 this evening. The Big Ten Commissioners and
presidents are meeting to vote on accepting UCSC and he's yeah
which is how this always happens when it's the one we podcast
about. Did we you have that I call it
it's like the golden hour but in conference realignment it's the
20 minutes in which the cree Is a message board at actual
reality occupy, the same realm? Yes.
And they just go past one another.
It's, it's fascinating, a lot of the energy in the universe.
Actually, we could power off of that if only and with the rate
we're going, we'll have plenty more of these moves to try and
test that theory. Yeah, I will my favorite way it
was John will never broke it. There's two there's only two
reporters who cover the Pac-12 at all, basically their John
Wilner and John cannizzaro at Oregon alive.
And the one who was in California got this And one who
is in Oregon did not and my favorite is would it's not just
welders tweet that blew it up, but I Miguel.
Did you go? But I went back.
Remember this sort of thing happens.
I go through the person who breaks the stories like timeline
his tweet directly before it is one of the funnier things I've
ever seen which was about an hour before that when clearly he
was like on the verge of getting the third source to go with it,
when it was some big along lines of like everything is about to
change and you want someone some fun applies people, you know?
Joking in the comments about how big it will be a bit.
It ends up happening and it's like, oh, this is much larger
than the Pac-12 switching at scheduling model.
Yeah. So no, it's as always when this
happens, it goes from nobody's talking about to, it's done in a
matter of hours, and the timing plays a role in it and, you
know, I hadn't thought of it right away.
But when somebody said this, it made sense in that, you know,
the college athletics year rolls over it on July 1st.
So, if you're going to make a conference move and you want to
You see the amount of time you have to wait legally.
Of course these things always go to court and get shortened.
You do it as soon as you can before July 1st but not after,
right? So that's why the timing drops.
It 3 p.m. Eastern on June 30th.
Which is cutting a beautifully close.
Yeah. Yeah.
Here we are. And now but this might only be
the start of it. Now is tonight's news, so I'm
excited for the Duke W you game. So there's a bunch of things to
unpack with this and, you know, where we start, we could really
start anywhere. But I think, I mean, first of
all, not to Pat myself on the back because this is not exactly
Galaxy brain stuff as far as I'm concerned.
But, you know, when we had The last round of rumored items
related to college expansion for conferences.
I said, look, the Big Ten, just needs to go get the LA school's
out of the Pac-12, because that's the logical thing to do.
If you're going to have Texas and Oklahoma, going to the SEC
and you're the Big Ten and you're looking at things from a
strategic business perspective, you have to go, get the biggest
remaining fish and maybe, you know, The the fish aren't
necessarily as big as a Texas, which is its own solar system of
sports basically. But if you can go grab a new
geographical area a top media Market, one of the top media
markets in the United States. If it's a no-brainer and I
remember at the time, like a lot of the arguments against that
were, well, why would the Big Ten want to artificially reduce
the amount of money that their members are getting like, why
would you expand unless Needed to.
Why would you do something so geographically unfitting, which
all seem like old arguments to me to a large degree?
And when you look at this and you realize, if the reporting is
correct, that USC and UCLA were actively looking for ways out
and they were the ones that made the initial contact and they
were the ones that were basically petitioning to get in.
You know, whether or not the Big Ten didn't want to look like the
on the on honor or the dishonorable ones or whatever.
The unreasonable ones that's an opportunity.
You just can't turn down. And it makes sense in the kind
of real politic of college sports these days when you know,
so many people seem to be handcuffed to this concept of
geography and college conferences, but it doesn't
matter. It's it's about the least
important thing at this stage in an era where branding and
marketing and ratings and revenue is really what rules the
day. And, you know, if you're the Big
Ten, you're basically picking up a pair of good, but distressed.
that's not distressed because of anything that they've done, but
distressed of the who the partners there with at this
point are Yeah, I do. I value geography.
A little more than you. But I will say this, something,
for folks, to consider in terms of the Texas, USC side of this,
in the Pac-12, as a whole, is that outside of each other,
every single car Conference game.
They play in every sport. They are getting on a plane now
as it is in the Pac-12. Yeah.
And that's true for pretty much every other Pac-12 School.
Oregon could bus to Washington, but given what we know about
Oregon Athletics, I bet they don't.
So every Pac-12 Team, every trip in conference is a massive plane
ride already now. Now they go across time zones
but there, I bet there are some geographically but a shorter
trips than the Washington, and Washington, State and Oregon and
Oregon State, and that's a quarter of your conference.
So there's that Terms of the other side of this, I think
we've learned a situation where, you know, in terms of TV
Partners Fox. It's the biggest card that they
could play. In terms of Leverage, we do a
big 12, Big 12, the Big Ten as, you know, is currently in the
Middle TV negotiations, basically being led by Fox.
And while, I don't think it's remotely as attractive or as
Interesting as a leveraging. Oklahoma, and Texas of what was
available, it's as good as they could get, and it's a very good
one. I mean, it's huge.
Pools in a huge Market that I don't think really cares too
much about college sports. But still, they're big names in
a big, big market and I think, yeah, if you're the Big Ten, I
mean, this seems like something where the schools came to them.
I think also, what plays a huge role here in Galen, as I think
that USC, and UCLA see, which way headwinds are going in terms
of TV, negotiations? See the way it is right now for
the Pac-12, which is not great. And know that we're it was going
to go. When they come finally, could do
a new deal in. 2024 was not going to be great.
It was going to be better but the Gap, the degree to, which
the Gap is widening. Between, let's say the Big 12 in
the FEC is one thing. Even though it's reduced the Big
12, the school leaving, but the gap between the Pac-12 in the
SEC and the Big Ten is a gigantic.
Yeah. I mean it's I mean where you get
to a point where it seems like it'll probably 60 million a year
and if you want to weigh it, isn't it?
You just if your conference decides to go Whole Hog with
apple and Amazon or something. Which I mean, if I'm USC or
UCLA, if I'm Washington State, find great, if I'm USC or UCLA,
where I just brought Lincoln Riley in for the gross domestic
product of Guatemala. I'm not, I'm not looking
positively to situation with. The only way we can hope to not
get completely reamed on TV. Money is if we go with someone
who's never really broadcast, the college lie, so the money
wasn't is not going to be there for the Pac-12.
Even if those schools would say that just didn't seem Or not
going to be there anywhere close to where the Pac-12 or the big
to wear the Big 10 and or the SEC is right now.
Their new deals haven't even kicked in yet.
The Big Ten one has been signed, so they're not near them right
now. Where are they going to be in
2030? It's like that's why UCLA USC,
just pulled the ripcord and because they had to get out now
where they were going to be, they were going to be a real
financial trouble, the financial the financial distance that
we're looking at potentially between The Big Ten in the SEC
where they're going to be pulling in about a hundred
million dollars per School per year just in meteorites.
Not in total revenue but just in meteorites.
And that for Big Ten schools right now represents about 125
percent increase over what they're currently making which
is about 40 million dollars a year.
I mean so you take that hundred million dollar a year mark and
you compare it to what Pac-12 teams would be made.
Aching under this same vision or the same era.
It's like comparing a power five conference and an FCS conference
in terms of Revenue models. If you look at it like 20 years
ago, and this idea that there's this huge Gulf that's now
existent between these different conferences and what they do and
you know, you met. So there was a tweet from front
office Sports earlier the Pac-12, meteorites Revenue
distribution for 20 21 is going to be approximately 20 million
dollars per school. So Already.
Like at a point that is half that of, what the big, ten
schools are going to make in the same year, and now you're
talking about exponential jumps beyond that.
Yeah. If you're USC and UCLA, I think
you're looking at this and you're like, this is crazy.
It's interesting. Because there was a, there was
an interesting piece on on three Sports, where there was a
podcast that they had done and one of their college football,
analyst JD pick, L, was talking about this and You know, there's
some reputational elements to this, also, which is that it's
not just that you're not making that much money if you're USC or
UCLA, and you're in the Pac-12, it's, that you are looked at as
a second-rate team or a second-rate program, even in
football. And, you know, UCLA, well,
that's probably true, but you know USC.
I mean, this is a national brand that is essentially been
relegated to also-ran consideration, even when they're
good, or when Washington's gonna It's like well, there are Pac-12
team so they really shouldn't be taken seriously that stings if
you're a USC and so it's like what is the what's the Escape
Route there to try to get back to National respectability
again? Yeah, you're telling me you get
to get away from that perception and get 80 million more dollars
a year. I mean you're probably going to
take it and do USC thing I go back.
I thought a lot today about the Lincoln rally thing.
In terms of was this, I don't think this was in the works at
that point, but I also don't think that the USC and USC woke
up today and decided to give C10 office, a call between, I think,
I think I think these This on an unofficial like, you know,
commissioner assistant meeting an associate athletic director,
you know, by accident in like a Denny's in Boulder, you know,
where there's a conversation had like, well, if we were
interested, what would you say? I mean that could have happened
at Thanksgiving of last year for all we know.
And, you know, buddy. It's kind of like, well it's
also most important thing here, Gail and yeah.
The what? Sorry I just realized, I mean
Kailyn. What do we just have in the last
week? You will notice the Casita
convention in person, Las Vegas, the largest gathering of College
athletics, officials from every single conference and every
single TV partner and college. We're all in Vegas for the last
week. If you're going to do a deal and
you want to keep it kind of stand, you can put everyone in a
room and nobody has to make a phone call and nobody knows
anything. You can hide it a million but
it's Vegas. You can hide in a million
places. You can bury the He's in the
desert. So they just, they're just
coming off of the biggest networking event College
athletics, had the last two years given K.
The, they're changing very least.
We have to change the slogan to what happens in Vegas destroys
the Pac-12. It's, they might not be the only
one we have. Yeah, well before we, before we
get to that, let's talk about the Larry, Scott piece of this,
this puzzle. I mean, there's always there's
always a butterfly effect in college sports.
I mean, you know, if you You can trace, you know, the big Ten's
inability to Checkmate, the bowl Alliance all the way back to
Michigan. Actively keeping Notre Dame out
of the Big Ten in the 1920s. You know, there's always some
kind of long-tailed chaos theory that ends up affecting things.
And if you think about this right now, you going into the
mid-2000s, the Pac-12 was not that poorly positioned.
I mean, you know, they had some national Brands USC had been the
best college football team for a few years there basketball was
doing pretty well. They hire Larry Scott and you
know, for essentially like Scott almost pulled off getting Texas
into the Pac-12 and then it didn't happen.
And then he made perhaps the worst series of high-profile
College commissioner decisions that we've ever seen and it ends
up, he's no longer in office. And USC and UCLA are gone by
2024 and essentially the Pac-12 ceases to exist as an entity
that matters, I mean, We've joked about Larry Scott, a lot
in a variety of contexts but it's fascinating to think about
how Central of a character he's going to look like in the next
10 to 15 years when people go back and try to figure out how
we got to where we are right now.
Yeah, his commitment to maximalist.
Comedy is one that should be long valued and considered like
it just every decision. Just, they weren't just bad.
They were they became more plainly bad.
The moment they happen like sooner and they were bad and
bigger ways and it costly or ways and it's you know, it's not
just starting the network that's fine.
We're going to go on our own. Okay.
That's a little weird. Yeah, but we're going to do
seven that works. Huh.
And we're going to do we're going to get the absolute, we're
going to Broad. We're going to a high-end
broadcast the level of which technology.
Lee. SP and NBC, and CBS.
Don't you there sports for like Pro Sport, huh?
We're going to San Francisco, but it's the most expensive
place because we're going to get the most expensive All Glass
office. We can find its, let's go.
What we're going to move the basketball tournament Vegas.
Well, that's not bad. That's kind of.
Okay. I'm also going to require my own
suite for a week at the top of the Aria.
Wow. What?
It's like when Pete when people deep control European dictator,
whose downfalls mirror, this It's it's funny because Imelda
Marcos comes to college athletic.
It's like all of the things that people thought Gary Bettman was
doing the submarine, the NHL, you know, it's like an agent of
the of the NBA. This is like an actual version
of that. I mean, maybe some, maybe in,
like 30 years. We're going to find out that
Larry Scott got sent to the Pac-12 by the Big Ten, you know,
under cover of darkness. And it was just kind of this.
This long-form destruction of the conference from the inside.
Its it is to all those things you listed like, There was an
article that I would recommend people read.
I retweeted it that Jim Alexander from the Orange County
Register Road and it was it just detailed all of these things
that you just mentioned. And it's just fascinating to
think about, I mean, this is a major, this isn't just a major
conference. This is a conference that's
always been built around the Los Angeles schools.
It's a conference that, I mean, it it's got the largest state by
population in the union and yes, I know Sports aren't that
important in California, but USC is a brand, is important in
California. There are, there are UCLA,
basketball is important as a brand in California.
Like when those programs are good, they're really relevant.
And you know this the Big Ten in the pac-10 were running buddies
for decades, you know, throughout the 1900's, they were
essentially, the force that kept the SEC and Notre Dame and and
the S the southwestern conference from taking
everything over and to watch. The Pac-12 essentially just
disintegrate because of one bad decade and have their best teams
or their most relevant teams, go to the Big Ten.
I don't think it's just fascinating from historical
perspective for me. Lots of leaks have a bad decade.
They usually don't die, right? This is kind of impressive than
the only league in their third of the country.
They have a monopsonist really and yet they just made bad play
after bad. Play any treasure for yeah.
Hiring the guy who ran the WTA like when's the last time
anybody really watch aw tapes. Ta event, not a major those.
It's like golf the tennis Majors have nothing to do with the WT
RPP. Larry Scott, the main TV
experience was negotiating. A TV deal for a tennis league
with the Tennis Channel, which is not exactly the same as going
to Market when you're starting a brand-new colors, Sports Network
for a league in, which are highlighted.
God bless him? I love him, man.
The water. Polo in vain.
Tory is going to be a real hairy there.
If you're not going to Parker with a nibble Network, who's
done a network before, and then the whole moving to San
Francisco thing at that, really got highlighted by covid.
We all learned that we can do any of these jobs from anywhere,
as. Oh, yeah, we get.
Well, as we're sitting here. UCLA has announced that they
will be joining the Big Ten in I'm guessing 2425.
Yep, well, we'll see you in court.
H. This is, I mean, the Texas.
Oklahoma thing was fast. It was not this fast that took a
couple of days. Yeah, this thing.
This thing was they texted are USC and UCLA utilized all the
technology of Southern California and Silicon Valley,
it's to completely Leave Act. Well, forget, it's just amazing.
I mean, it's all. Thanks to one bad Larry Scott.
I gotta say I will, I will I need to offer an apology to
Kevin Warren. Who I was pretty critical about.
When the, when the, when the Texas and Oklahoma stuff came
out because, and look, I think you have to think about these
things more in political terms and business terms than
competitive terms and the argument at the time, was what
the Big Ten looks like. It's standing Pat while the SEC
races, past them for financial relevancy, for National
relevancy. And this is, I mean, whether
this was something that was entirely the California schools
decisions, and maybe it's I'm done and announced that way to
like allow the Big Ten to save some face.
I don't know what it is. But still this is this is a key
move and I was very worried. Frankly about the Big Ten
potentially getting outmaneuvered on the national
stage by with the SEC had done. And so, I do think that Warren
deserves a lot of credit for either making this happen or at
least putting the Big Ten in position and getting everybody
wind up to agree to this because it really does completely change
the game. Bored at this point, as far as
College athletics is concerned. Yeah, and I'll give you credit
for that because you were critical of him.
But you have the ability to say, okay things changed.
I am utterly fascinated, justly, I'm leaning forward in my chair
to see how the Ohio State Transit.
Going to spin this one because those folks wanted Kevin Warren
dead because he didn't want to play football in a pandemic and
he was bad for the league and we're going to protest outside
the show, the foul and stuff and Kevin Warren.
And he took that personally because this dude has completely
changed the landscape for his league and may just be starting
by the sounds of it and it's a mess of move for them.
It's completely. It's it's a vote in favor of The
fact they went outside to go system of the league to get
somebody. They didn't hire a commissioner
who is busy worshipping, the sacred bonds of the Rose Bowl
and the Pac-12 in the Big Ten Alliance.
And of course, speaking of Alliance, know the minute, he
got an offer to do something that would murder the Pac-12.
He asked for the gun, so and the presidents of the Big Ten did
not try and stop him. I do wonder about the speed of
this. If the faster you do something
like you, do you shoot first, ask questions later?
Sort of move. But I don't think there would
have been any pushback in the Big Ten on this.
I think it's something you can answer this better and I could
go. And it's like there's no Reserve
any resistance inside? The Big Ten on this in terms of
fan bases, is there? Well, this is, it's wild and you
alluded to it at the beginning. But before we started recording,
a lot of people don't like this. They're they're, they're opposed
to the geographical lack of fit. They're opposed to, you know,
it's if course everybody's in like, you know, the Grab phase
of things. And, you know, this is just
greed and all of this and, you know, to me, here's the thing.
My, when I look at people, people don't like change people.
You mean n IL and everything that's happened in college
athletics lately. People have been really opposed
to it and I don't think people are going to Care in two or
three years about n IL. They care now because it's
different and different must be bad and because it's a
different, you know, it's a change in in what they have
perceived. Received college sports to be
and I look at this and kind of the same way where I understand
why people look at this and they have a hard time cognitively
with their, you know, the idea of to Los Angeles schools in the
Big Ten. I get it.
It is definitely different. But I think look, that we've
been in a different phase of college sports since about 2005.
I mean, I think if you go back, you can think you can really
date it 2003, when the UCC basically cut the the the
testicles out of the Big East, you know, and they take Miami
and they take Virginia Tech and they essentially completely
change the entire Foundation of College athletics that changed
the game. And the old rules that just
basically didn't apply at that point.
So I look at this and yeah, of course, money is going to be
made. I don't look at this as a greedy
thing. I look at this as a survival
thing for both the Big Ten and the LA schools.
And if anybody else ends up jumping in on this, I think all
it does, is it it really lays bare the reality of college
sports, which is that it's a professional Enterprise, there's
a lot of money involved, there's a lot of Market positioning that
you have to do and you have to be a nationwide brand, you can't
afford to be a regional brand. If you're going to be a regional
brand, you have to be like the SEC where you are.
Just like, so good at one or two particular sports, that it it
allows you to be a national And because everybody wants to
follow along with what you're doing.
So look, I understand the resistance, I understand why
people are reacting negatively, but I don't think at this point
that it's anything, but a good thing, it's not going to ruin
the Big Ten. It's going to make it different,
but the alternative is being the permanent second-tier conference
to the SEC, who financially would start lapping, you very
quickly if the current order or the order prior to 559 today was
the one that was going to Stay in place.
I don't know. I mean, am I off base here or
what? No, I would this drop today.
I was honestly, I had less of a problem with the tonight did so
to speak with the Texas Oklahoma one.
And I wondered, is that simply because of the order in which
they occurred, because I look at them as basically, the same sort
of move. They're just the ultimate.
There is no attempt to pretense here.
This is a market move, this is a move.
I need to read you some profit just for Texas, Oklahoma and
Laughing your butt off. So I need to know why I need to
read this statement from the UCLA director of Athletics, that
just got put on to Twitter. So, this is a Martin jar mod,
the former, the former Boston College's, athletic director.
It's always those bastard. We're it's not just the Yukon
fans. They ruined everything.
Sorry, go ahead. There's some sweet Martin Sharma
who by the way was like this close to getting fired because
there are serious issues in the UCL a-- F life.
Department involving abuse and boy are those on the back burner
now, yeah, please read mr. Charm on statement, UCLA
Athletics, primary responsibility is to our student
athletes to supporting them and providing them with the
resources and opportunities to have an elite experience.
While they represent the four letters after thoughtful
deliberation, we came to the conclusion, that the best way to
do that amidst amidst rapidly Changing Times in college.
Athletics is to join the Big Ten Conference from increased.
Exposure and a broader National platform for our
student-athletes to enhanced resources.
For our team's. This move will help preserve the
legacy of UCLA UCLA Athletics for generations to come.
We have deeply valued our membership in the Pac-12.
And we have great respect for the conference that our fellow
member institutions. But he's School faces, its own,
its own unique challenges and circumstances.
We believe this is the right move for UCLA at the right time
just that's in and quote, Lars Swats of that is like are good.
First of all, be closed. We believe this is in the best
interest of UCLA. It's honest and it doesn't run
away from money. It isn't hiding behind an
academic partnership or something with research money.
They're very upfront about this. But at the same time, after
careful deliberation, we decided to leave a conference.
We've been associated with for 100 years on a June afternoon.
Like it just leaving for dead in.
Barstow, this is Absolutely shoot it in the middle of its
face but we have respect for Washington State as we just
murder it. The Utah I'll say that this I'll
give I'll give you see it. I'll give the University of
Southern California, slightly more credit, they had their
president come out and make a statement on this but I'm
surprised. So here's the thing, it's almost
the same statement that I just read from the UCLA athletic
director. Yeah, we're joining a storied
conference. The chairs are the same Loft
that shares our commitment to academic excellence in academic
athletic competitiveness, and we're positioning USC, and our
student athletes for long-term success and stability.
Mm, it's the rapidly evolving, Sports, media and Collegiate,
athletic, Landscapes ultimate. This is from Mike bone, the
athletic director. Ultimately, the Big Ten is the
best home for USC and Trojan Athletics.
As we move into the new world of Collegiate Sports, it sounds
like they were listening to the podcast earlier, you know?
It's Well, about, it's about time.
Yes, we are excited that our values align with the League's
member institutions. We will also, we also will
benefit from the stability and strength of the conference.
The athletic caliber of big head institutions, The increased
visibility exposure and resources.
The coverage will bring to our student athletes and programs in
the ability to expand engagement with our passionate alumni
Nationwide. I mean, wow, they just left the
knife. In the back, the interesting
thing in both of those statements that the similarity
actually makes a lot of sensitive about, like, how many
different things could they have said?
It's not a lot here. This isn't like well shitting.
So in the Donetsk region, there's a hold on to which is
both statements. They mentioned TV is interesting
and media got sorry. So there was more from UCLA.
And I think this was, this was a larger statement for our fans
for our fans, Big Ten membership equates to Better television
time slots for our road games but the same number of home
games. Either at the Rose Bowl in
Pauley Pavilion or other UCLA venues we will make efforts to
preserve our traditional Regional rivalries and are
pleased that our Crosstown rival.
USC will also be joining the Big 10 and 24 25 which is really
interesting way of positioning it because it's like, hey guys,
we don't want to give up any home games.
You're going to get all those will just be road-tripping in
two different spots. What I the whole time I haven't
understood, why de facto schools hate the lake kickoffs but like
do you look at a map? Like they're the only been a
major conference in the Pacific time zone.
Yeah. The TV networks want to have
games at 10 p.m. Eastern which makes an
interesting. It's an interesting thing to the
way. Yeah.
By the way, news to USC and UCLA, if you think you're
getting less 10:00 kickoffs, but not as many as they probably
are. Well, this was ours going to
say. Like there must be some kind of
big protections here for USC and UCLA in the negotiations where
they're like, hey guess what? We'll do this.
But we want like 4 p.m. local kickoffs at the latest.
Like, we don't want any more of this 10:00 or 11:00 stuff that
ESPN has been doing or that fox has been doing which look, if
that's if that's what they wanted.
That's an easy gift like fought, you know, big Ten's like yeah,
sure, no problem. We don't want our games on at 11
o'clock, local time either. Yeah, you know.
So, It's so it'll be you know kind of it's the perfect
marriage because you won't believe in the big tent which
like Everyone likes being at 11 a.m. and you have schools in a
league where nobody likes me. Get that for you.
Yeah, like so it's, it's yeah, you can take 4:00, like, about
if Michigan kicked off at 4:00. In a lot of situations the fan
to be pissed off. Like, don't take an IQ but 4:00
then. Look, what the hell, yeah.
They'd rather be at noon or eight.
That's it. So you tell them, we only want
four o'clock Eastern. The last.
How many? So, It does, but there are going
to be a push or a few games a year that are going to end up at
the 10:00. But I mean I don't think USC was
worried about like the Calle De that's actually the cover played
nephew, if there weren't worried about the Nevada game being at
10:00 they were worried about Arizona.
And then next week, ever since taping at 10:00, which I think
is a stupid worried. But I understand, I understand
what fans complained about. I get that the fact that like
the athletic directors like cared, like the check cleared,
what do you care, right? So but it's the degree that the
amount of meteorites references in both statements and the
specific nature of our current deal sucks and here's
specifically why it sucks and what we don't like about it.
That is, it's taking out from And the curtain, all the stuff
that cannizzaro and Wilner have been reporting about this is
quite this wasn't just like a fan thing.
It eventually it was a kind of a critical mass of Fame complaints
and athletic department, complaints.
I mean, to that point, like do they even go to the Pac-12 and
say, well, if you can match this will stay.
Nope, they were just gone. There were gone, they've been
there a hundred years. They got it off of the big The
Pact never gonna get this, right?
They got an offer from the Big Ten that had what they wanted
and that was it. They were out they were Route.
They weren't going to go. She ate even though they would
have had an incredible amount of Leverage with the Pac-12 and
amount of Leverage that will become very apparent in the next
couple of months. They just were gone.
They were they, they were it tells you how deeply they
believe in this thing that they didn't even need to listen to
what the Pac-12 had to say, even even with without Larry, Scott
being involved for the last year.
Yeah. And even when it seems like
things have actually started to stabilize in terms of
performance, the Riley higher was I thought seismic for that
league and it was going to save the league gal.
It hasn't quite done that. And now yeah, here's the school.
It's done. It's done, it's done.
So the last question, I'll ask and then I'm going to let you
go. What what's the next move?
What's the next? Big move in college sports.
So we've heard, we heard a lot of the chatter around this not
just that the Big Ten I was taking USC and UCLA but that the
Big Ten may not be done, which means the Big Ten is definitely
not done. So right, there's a bunch of
things on the table. So there's there's a few
scenarios, I'll throw at you and you can take whichever one you
want one of them is okay. Are there any is there any more
meat left to pick off the bones of the Pac-12?
You know you've got obviously you've got Oregon and
Washington, we know Washington obviously the prime School in
the Seattle Market. One of the few schools that
regularly does, at least a for rating or better in college
football games. Obviously Oregon is kind of its
own National brand and now in a very weird way, although, it
doesn't have much of a market media-wise, you've got Cal and
Stanford Stanford's a big feather in the cap for anybody
from an academic perspective and they still have a decent F,
athletic brand, but then you've also got Notre Dame, who there
was a an anonymous quote that Adam Rittenberg had out there.
Which said in Words to Notre Dame.
It's getting essentially untenable to be an independent
at this point and it's a great. Well that's a great fair enough
and you amass we're doing it there it up.
Correct. But then you've also got the the
other elephant in the room here is the ACC and the fact that Jim
Swafford signed a deal that lasts until 2036 lasts until I
mean Talking about what they haven't even picked an Olympic
host or a World Cup host for as far out as this deal goes.
And it's only been the bribes out and it's so far out and it
hasn't, and it's generating about what 17 to 20 million
dollars. A year per ACC school and that
number is not going to go up unless they get to renegotiate.
The contract, which is why they brought Jim Phillips in, as the
commissioner, but they, they have no leverage like ESPN.
The only leverage they have is ESPN wanting to counter Fox At
this point and I don't know if they really care that much given
what they've got going with the SEC so that to me puts a lot of
those ACC schools in play. It puts, you know, if you wanted
to go football, it puts Miami and play.
It puts Florida State in play. If you wanted to go, if you
wanted to cut the heart out of the ACC suddenly North Carolina
Duke and Virginia are in play. Certainly you could peel Notre
Dame off if you wanted to try. So I guess the question I would
have is if you're the Big Ten and you know, that any schools
you add are going to Have to add some significant Revenue,
positive value. Probably in most cases to get
agreement. What, if anything would you do?
Would you stand Pat with these two schools?
Would you go elsewhere or what would you do?
Well, but this virtually broke. I actually thought it was a good
day for the ACC. I thought about that whole Lions
thing. I thought a lot of this was the
ACC part of the alliance, going to the going to the Big Ten
going. Yeah, no.
You should do that because it helps the chances of them
getting Notre Dame into the ACC as the days gone on.
I don't think that as much now, and if it look and willner
saying they're thinking about it, and he broke this, I'm
willing to think the thinking about it.
So, if I'm them, it's easy to say, Washington, Oregon and
Idaho. I agree except I think that the
political it's politically untenable to take Washington
Oregon and not take Washington State and Oregon State.
I think I don't think that would work.
I think there's just too much. It's not like like it was hard
enough to get the Texas schools, because they all hate each
other. I just don't think they could
politically, pull that off to leave both Washington State and
Oregon, stay behind and Oregon. And Oregon State are actually
very close as schools. One of the things that hurt the
Pac-12, didn't the rivals didn't nearly hate each other as much
as would have, made the More successful, like that's better
in terms of humanity, but it makes it harder to do things.
Like, I'm not saying, Oregon, wouldn't stab, Oregon state in
the back of the film is giving a lot of money to Oregon State
people realize well, and they can kiss him off, and people
forget people, people, people Washington, Oregon, people,
forget there's precedent for this because the big when the
when the big eight was trying to swallow the southwestern
conference, all they wanted was Texas and Texas A&M and the
Texas state legislature. If I remember correctly for Them
to also take Baylor and Texas Tech or the whole thing was off.
Now obviously those bonds haven't lasted that long but
this is not an unheard-of thing. Sorry, go ahead. so so because
of that, while I would say Washington, Oregon out I think
There's just too much that would have happened if they might do
it. Also allows you to say we've got
all the California, you take Stanford and couch, God knows,
the big, the big 10 cannot wait in the Big.
Ten is fluttering at the ability to tell Stanford academically.
They're like vibrating at the ability to do it and Cal,
congratulate your in because they need a true Dragon partner.
So I think Stanford Cal and honestly, if they go after the
ACC, I think you offer duke-north Carolina, you just
don't mess around. There's it's for what they are
now. It's obviously the moment of
greatest transition for what they're known for, but at the
same time, It's the most I think guaranteed lock thing to work
for what you're bringing them in for, I think that makes more
sense. I don't, I mean Notre Dame's.
The what everyone says, but we had 110 years with this well,
and as I say that you're about to tell me that like they're
joining. No not yet.
Not yet. Although I think I think it's
more on the table now because at this point ordered a doesn't
have a choice financially. But no, the reason I got it,
giddy, John or. And from I think it's that.
How you pronounce his last name. I've never actually known from
the sports business. Journal.
Just gotta all ran Sports position, just tweeted the
following. Apple told the Big Ten it wants
to re-engage in media talks after it heard about USC, and
UCLA joining the conference. Guess what the pot might grow
some more here? I bet it's just tremendous.
I love it. Well, the other thing that
you've got so much, you've got so much volume in.
If this thing goes to 20:22 model, this is sort of thing
where like boxing me the primary and it's being can still get a
crap load and apple gets a crapload.
There's so much. There's so much to go around for
everybody. It's the sort of thing where
it's so big. You actually don't get media
companies working against one of everyone's just happy.
I will give you this much and we'll get this much.
And we on the well care about what we don't have.
You know what it is so much. It's the, you know, it's the NFL
and this is the thing that people who don't follow Sports
closely enough. Don't get like, why is the NFL
so financially successful? It's because Why they are so
important as a marketing entity as an entertainment entity that
every major media entity is their business partner.
And those business partners will pay literally whatever the NFL
demands to stay a partner. Now, I'm not saying that the Big
Ten alone is going to get to quite that level, but we're
already talking about the first billion dollar television deal.
Combined. It could go higher than that and
you know what the long-term thing?
The thing we'll talk about the next time we podcast is at some
point and this is where I think, if you're smart and you're the
Big Ten, you cut the heart out of the ACC, either by taking
duke-north Carolina or Duke Virginia, North Carolina,
Virginia or whatever. Because at some point you get to
a big 10 mega conference versus SEC Mega conference and
everybody has to have games from both and that's how everybody
makes money. And that runs counter to how a
lot of people have thought about this.
But it's a lot different with two major players.
Hours than it was with five or six.
And that's ultimately the big difference that we're seeing
right now that we didn't see 10 years ago.
Yeah, the sweetest thing today is with people talking about
there being three super confidence.
Oh honey. Oh honey.
If you think the ACC is last for this all you are there just a
class just a fly dancing in a hurricane there because then my
other thing here is like I'm fascinated by what happens with
this with the like for the Pac-12.
Like where do you backfill? Like it's easy to assume the the
Big 12. I honestly think you look at the
Mountain West schools but I don't think they do that.
I mean, I don't know. Vadas not much.
Like really is the pet store solution going to be to add
Texas Tech and Kansas State. I mean really.
Yeah, well I wouldn't do we just put them on the bag and shake
them up and then we'll see, you know, tell me.
Well, who are iOS? 8 is playing West Virginia.
I mean, at this point isn't the Big 12 more likely aggressor
than the Pac-12, like, aren't they?
The ones grabbing the Arizona schools, rather than the other
way around. I think so, because at this
point, if I'm, if I'm if I'm here, if I mute on, if I mute
on, if I'm Utah and Colorado. I'm like, what did we do?
And why did we do it? It's like now, like, you've got
a direction. You've got to go and it's cause
different, Utah's different if this leaves.
If this leads to Colorado, going back to the Big 12, that's the
funniest thing that could have possibly happened a big 12, and
it doesn't have any of the good schools.
That's the funniest thing that could have happened.
If poor Frankie is running out there and by God, Texas Tech
Red, Raiders on the other sideline once again.
So yeah. What happens to the it's it's a
great day for the Big 12, I guess because there's more is a
great if they were they could buy off.
For UCF and tell him. We'd actually rather have a
Stanford but that's not gonna happen.
But yeah, it's I think aggressively.
I think the Big 12 is the one that makes the move.
I pick the Pac-12 as we know, it's the one that's in trouble.
And oh, to be a fly on the wall. In Craig, Thompson's office at
the Mountain West, but they have outlasted everyone.
They were the first to have a conference that work and they
all laugh. They all said it would never
ever, and and Mountain West, is going to outlast them all except
Sandy. Go State Sadie was already
making himself available to the Press today to try to wedge
their way into the Pac-12. Just tremendous, tremendous
stuff. I mean, I think, I think their
ships finally come in. They've got a new football
stadium. Now, I think San Diego's state
if they Peck solve, that's part of why I say the Mountain West
because I mean, I don't see how you're getting any of the Big 12
school do. We can get even more dysfunction
like in a worse League. Like why would a big 12 school
go there? Honestly.
So I don't think any of those schools are going to go there.
And yeah, I think they saying, Biggest eiko's in and the ship
is coming for Boise State. Probably.
I wonder about the Gonzaga when I think it might just be too
untenable. And the thing I'm focused on out
here, out east is, we've heard about the Gonzaga Piggies rumors
because this makes that likelier.
Maybe I don't. I mean, you know, this is for
our podcast now, what does this mean for college basketball or
college soccer? But I hope it's a little
significance. Yeah, well, there's plenty more
to talk Cronin coming into Assembly Hall.
Mick, Cronin is coming to Bloomington.
It's been, it's been a lifelong dream.
It really has. I tell you what I'm really
interested in and I'm literally, like I got it.
I gotta cut it after this. What the heck does?
You like, if I'm, if I'm playing Baseball for USC, or UCLA right
now. Like, what am I thinking about
the first trip? I have to make to Iowa City in
March. What I'm wondering.
Actually, I was like this sucks for the card for the oil
exports. Actually like it come baseball's
had a huge couple of weeks and pretentious, tell everyone,
they're schools. Now, you're going to USC or UCLA
for the first time it actually solves a lot of their past.
It really does Michigan Indiana. If I'm, and if you're USC, you
get told. Hey, guess what we're at home
for the first month and no, there will not be snowed in
Bloomington. In May what do we go there?
Probably that we might all get blown away in a tornado but
there won't be snow will be ok. Yeah, it's fascinating for a
baseball standpoint. I can't wait for USC to start
shit talking. Indiana swimming.
Now, this will be fun. I want to see those two Titans.
Finally, throw down the water. Polo Classics.
We've been waiting for, there's so many interesting places, this
goes Gail and and one of them might be Apple.
So, what did they College? Athletics is had and I
appreciate it. Distracting me from jail, and
Bronson's the Knicks for a hundred million dollars.
Hey, that's that's what I'm here to do another, another one of
these podcasts, another one of these podcasts, Scaling, you
know, I can it's great for our friends at home field.
They get to make all sorts of vintage stuff for the pac-10.
The pack 812, now we're gonna pack 14 of impact, 26.
I'm looking forward to the entire collect home-field
collection of defunct conference logo.
Tel Aviv or t-shirts. Just just just like give me all
of them at this point. Oh God kahlan.
If you don't think if you don't think today, I thought we might
have the rise of Eastern independent football.
Once again, it might happen if the AC falls apart just like ten
schools up here, who are going to suddenly need a plan.
And that's like I honestly think that's the most direct Domino of
think she falls apart, is what the hell?
Do 12 ACC schools to? It's it's going to be really
good. If another 2 Pac, 12 schools go
to the big Channel, we run through that.
Yeah, it's It's a wild, that's how many scenarios and we can't
even touch. We it would literally take a 12
like a Serial Arc of podcast for us to actually get to all the
potential ramifications and maybe we'll do that in future
episodes. But for now, I mean, I would say
like like we aren't capable of doing that please, which
challenge except parrots exactly.
Anyway, Zach as always a pleasure to have you joining me
and a pleasure to talk with you again and we'll probably do
another one of these soon. We'll have more info including
our second podcast coming up. A little bit later, as I talked
with Scott about this whole situation and what it means for
IU, the Big Ten and college sports in general.
So, thanks for joining us, folks, thanks again to our title
sponsor home, field apparel. I'm Galen, klaviyo, will catch
you folks on the flip side? So long, everybody.