You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. Hi, welcome back to Crimson
Casket, Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining you.
It is the 31st of January. Scott, we're already done with
the month. Kind of hard to believe but.
We're about to hit that stretch where we go like we we, we're
going to look up. It'll be the Super Bowl.
You know, we'll get our Taylor Swift moments.
All the Swifties can be like you literally like after the Super
Bowl. So you look up, it's like, oh,
you know, spring training for those who remember.
But it's like, oh like be like 3 weeks left, the Big 10 season
and the Big 10 tournaments coming and then it's like the
NCAA tournament. Then you get the Masters and
IndyCar. It's like we are about to hit
that stretch. Yeah, it's this is my favorite
time of the year. Those of you who have listened
to the podcast for long enough know that, like this stretch
from the Super Bowl to really the Indy 500 is my favorite set
of sporting events and we'll see what happens with IU.
As part of that we're going to talk about obviously the game
yesterday as Indiana knocks off Iowa a a costly victory in a
bunch of ways, but certainly an interesting one.
And we'll also talk a little bit about what we got coming up this
weekend, which I will start off by talking about this time.
For those of you who are not aware, we are going to be live
at the Upstairs pub in Bloomington.
I will be getting there probably around 11 AMI.
Think Scott's getting there sometime around the same time
we'll be there for the Penn State game.
You can come up and talk with us if you want to.
You don't have, you're not required to by any means are we?
We're caged animals that you can bring us food.
You can throw us, throw us pretzel bites.
That's right. Come, come, come throw like an
orange at Scott and and and watch him eat it.
No, but we'll be there during the game.
It's promising a lot for me. And then after the game we'll
have the rest of our friends from the back home network
joining us at upstairs as assembly call will be coming in
and doing their live post game show.
We'll be participating in that as well and you get a chance to
meet a bunch of the folks that you hear on the network.
So if you're in town or if you're coming in town for the
game, you know whether or not you've got tickets, we'd love to
see you out there being sponsored by Hard Truth
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They're based over in Nashville. If you haven't been over to Hard
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And and their whole line of spirits is is just awesome
stuff. Scott, I don't know if you had
some of their, if you've been to my tailgates, you've had some
hard truth. Then I have then yes, I have
Okay. So anyway, hope we see you all
there. Again, we'll be there at
upstairs around 11:30 and we'll be there for like the next five
hours or so. So hope to see you there.
On Saturdays, Indiana takes on Penn State.
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Let's go ahead Scott and jump right in and talk about the game
last night. That was quite a contest.
Indiana taking on Iowa and this was a game that Iowa was
actually slightly favored in going into the game.
Indiana came out and looked pretty good, like right off the
bat established a big lead and and it really looked like Iowa
was going to kind of sink into oblivion.
At one point Indiana was on a 12 nothing run.
They led 31 to 15, they led 35 to 19.
But it was one of those games that it it felt like it was
cursed in a lot of ways. You know, Malik Renew goes down
and and kind of a quasi non contact injury never comes back.
We saw him on crutches at one point, but he was basically gone
the rest of the game. And then there was that
terrifying moment close to the end of the game where Xavier
Johnson, it looked like he fell and and broke something
significant. Early reports are maybe it was
not nearly that bad, but it certainly looked awful and it
kind of felt like between those items and Indiana squandering
the lead that they had built up, and Iowa even taking the lead a
couple of times, that this was another game where Indiana just
wasn't going to measure up. However, but despite the odds
and despite the momentum, Indiana figured out a way to win
this one. They get some clutch play out of
Anthony Leal, who had the game of his life in an Indiana
uniform. They get an incredible
performance out of a very hobbled Khalil Ware and they end
up coming away with a 7468 victory at home.
Scott, I mean your overall impressions from that game like
what it what, how was it and and what was your what did you come
away with? Yeah.
I mean I was I was there and I'm sitting right kind of by the
where Xavier went down like right by that basket and it was
that was a tough hit. I hope.
I hope he can come back. It's just that guy's been not
had good injury luck. No.
I mean expanding on a lot of the things that you talked about.
You know that was a game where it's it's frustrating because
you know we're up like you know 15, almost 20 in the first half
and it's like you just know like this I I don't see us cruising
to a 30 point victory like you just you you had a feeling Iowa
was going to came come back, they came back and they actually
took the lead. I think it's like 6566 they took
the lead at one point and it's like oh God, yeah, once you
cross that, that threshold, sometimes that's like almost too
much to mentally come back from. You've got to give this team
played hard. They they fought through.
There was a lot of moments where it could have been like man,
like I was coming back and Xavier goes down.
Like you could just not saying you folded up but you could have
seen like understanding why. But you know if I would have
told you if you had you know Clutch 3 by Gabe Cups on your
bingo card to win the game. I I think a lot of people
wouldn't have had that. But he came up huge.
Like you mentioned, Anthony Leo had the game that I think a lot
of us have been like that's that's what we've kind of been
waiting for out of Leo. Like we know he can shoot
looking to see it. His defense has really improved.
And and yeah, I mean, Khalil Ware, I'm trying to see he had
three blocks, but I mean his block numbers really don't
count, 'cause he gets like 9 or 10 every game where, you know,
like Perkins drives in and it's like, oh, Khalil Ware was there
like I'm going to pass it out. Like a lot of times their people
were going to go up for shots, but they don't.
And call the We need a category for that.
Yeah, like you got weird. How about, how about like,
deterrence? It's like it wasn't, it wasn't a
block. But yeah, he had like, he had
six deterrence in that game. Yeah, and and you know, the only
solace you can take is that, you know, we don't know how long
Renew is going to be out. And don't take this the wrong
way. Like Renew is awesome as well.
But there is a world where we're playing on his own as kind of
the only big guy. You could see how much court he
was able to cover, how much he was able to kind of control that
lane without other people, kind of other defenders being there.
And that's with him obviously still being injured, not having
the same kind of lateral quickness.
So he's he's an absolute revelation every, every time you
see him play. But overall to me it was I
walked away with the toughness, the grittiness of that team to
kind of, you know, get punched in the mouth three times, like
two injury punch mouths. And then the, you know, getting
having Iowa come all the way back and take the lead, but but
still come back and and find a way to to grip that out.
To me, that was a big win and really a a must win if you're
going to kind of turn this season around or at least get
the season going in the direction you want it to.
I mean, look, there were it's one of those games where if you
lose your leading scorer in Malik Renew 3 minutes into the
game, which Indiana did, and you lose Khalil Ware or didn't lose
the Khalil Ware. But you know, Khalil Ware wasn't
even sure to play. And you know, we heard before
the game he was going to be unlimited minutes and you lose
your starting point guard and you're playing an Iowa team that
while you know not great is is is certainly a functional
basketball team. I mean, they just won at
Michigan. That's not a great scenario
regardless. And then you add in the problems
that this team has had with kind of playing a full 40 minutes.
We've talked about that a lot throughout the course of the
year. But you know, what I take out of
this is kind of, I I guess kind of falls into the following
buckets, The fact that so many people were able to step up and
perform. Anthony Leal deserves all the
credit in the world for coming off the bench when he had to be
called playing 2022 minutes in the game, which if I'm not
mistaken, like, you go back and look at Anthony Leal's career.
He's only played that many minutes in an Indiana uniform
twice. He played 35 minutes his
freshman year and then he played 22 minutes against actually
three times. Sorry, still, that's not very
many for a guy who's been at IU as long as he had.
And for him to come in, having not played that much lately and
shoot confidently and just kind of be a calming presence on the
court, I mean, it's a great moment for a guy who hasn't had
the opportunity to have a lot of great moments in Indiana
uniform. He's been through a coaching
change. You know that.
That is one of those. It feels like every player
that's in an IU uniform kind of gets at least one moment like
that. And for him to get that moment
and really be kind of a decisive reason why Indiana wins a tight
game that they might have otherwise lost is really cool to
see. Yeah, no, I mean, you know,
whether it turns into, you know, we get it this, this Anthony
Leo, like this moving forward. Don't know.
But I I agree. It was awesome to see.
But there is a world where like this does it.
It it wasn't like he just completely did something out of
the norm. Like Leo's a good shooter.
Like that's what he came in as. And his shot has always looked
good. I think sometimes he's struggled
with, you know, feeling comfortable taking the shot or
doing with a little bit of pressure in his face.
So there is a world where like this, this does feel like him
going 3 for four or three for five from three on a regular
basis doesn't feel completely out of out of the round.
Plus you saw how how much this, you know, this is kind of where
everyone's been trying to get our offense to do some of this.
You saw like one of his threes was in 100% because he had the
ball he passed into where his defender went to double team
where and it's like where kicked it back.
Leal's wide open and it's like that is that's going to be there
all season because there will be times where teams like we can't
we can't we we we want a double team where it's like well then
you're going to leave Anthony Leal open.
And so it's like I there is a world where I do think some of
this could be replicatable moving forward.
Yeah. No, that's the thing.
And that was that feeds into the second point that I was going to
make, which is that out of necessity, Mike Woodson had to
change the way his team approached playing yesterday.
And you know the the stat that sticks out to me about this
game, and I mentioned it on Twitter afterwards, they shot 22
three pointers. They shot as many three pointers
as Iowa shot. They hit two more.
And I'd like to note, Scott, that they won the game by 6
points, which if you take 2-3 pointers and multiply them by
the points that you get for the shots that ended up being the
margin of victory. This is a team that if you're
going to take 22 threes and hit eight, you'll take that every
day of the week. Indiana has to moving forward,
especially if Malik Renew is injured.
But even if he's not, you know, with Khalil Ware being hobbled
and also just with the way that this roster is set up right now,
they have to become a bit more perimeter oriented.
We've talked about this over and over again.
The fact that they they shot those threes, it became part of
the offense just kind of made me wonder like what exactly was the
reason why they haven't been doing this up to this point.
And I think to some degree this has to be incorporated more down
the line. I mean, I still don't think that
the offense looks great to watch, but there was at least
the threat with those open threes, including that one that
Gabe Cups made at the end of the game that essentially kind of
gave Indiana the final separation that they needed.
Like there was a confidence level coming out of the shooters
from three that you haven't seen and that's the thing I hope that
they can replicate with this And you know, so I'm going to let
you talk about that. There's one other style of play
aspect that I want to get to, but any thoughts on that?
Yeah, I mean I, I, I hear you my cat and I I hope that's the
case. My counter would be, as you look
at this season, I haven't gone back and looked at like
previously. If you look at this year like
you know they they go four for 15 against Harvard, they shoot
15 threes. The next two games they only
shoot 9 going 3 for nine against Maryland and Michigan.
It's like you're shooting pretty well to shot more.
They didn't. You see these blips like again
it's northern Alabama. But they did shoot 24 against
Northern Alabama and then kind of start dipping back down only
taking twelve against Ohio State they went, you know they shot 8
for 24 against Purdue very similar to numbers to Iowa.
The next two games they go six for 14 and O for 9:00.
So now I will say when you look at the trend like the beginning
of the year, they're kind of in that 1012 threes a game range.
It is starting to tick up but you do kind of see this you know
824 against Purdue and then two games later you're only shooting
nine against Illinois. Some of that is the teams that
you're playing, some of it schematic, but that that's my
only concern is you have seen these blips where they shoot a
lot of threes and then you go two or three games later and
they're not doing it again. I you hope that the confidence
is there that that makes it grow.
What's and and this is the thing that's important.
It's not just the confidence, but it is the orientation of the
offense and you know, so many complaints that we've voiced
over the course of the season. And and it's not just us.
There's others as well have been.
Why does it feel like the three pointer is a shot of last resort
for the offense? And it did feel like when when
the chips were down yesterday that Indiana was starting to
move the ball better out of necessity because they didn't
have the crutch of throwing the ball in the post to Malik Renew
to rely on. I think the trick and hopefully
Malik is fine and and he'll be back in in action soon.
The the trick is can you leverage having Malik renew
who's a really nice scorer in the post.
He's got some great moves you can certainly rely on him but
can you leverage the three-point shot as an offensive weapon and
also to make it easier on Malik Renew to avoid the double and
triple teams. I mean, I think if last night's
game shows anything to me, it's that you can shoot the ball from
three if you're Indiana and have some measure of success if you
are serious about trying it. And I just don't feel like in
the Illinois game, it does not feel like Indiana was
particularly serious about shooting from deep.
And that's how you get a situation where you only take 9
threes for a whole game and you don't make any and and that has
to affect the confidence of your shooters.
You know what stuck out to me in that Iowa game was how ready
everybody seemed to be to shoot and not all the shots were
great. I mean, CJ Gunn had an Air Bold
3 and you know there were a couple of threes that were way
off, but Iowa had those two got Peyton Sanford air ball to
three, there was another three that was way off.
Like there's there are lots of you're going to get those, but
that that can't be a reason not to do that particular part of
the offense. I I I hear you.
I'm not trying to be contrarian. I hear you.
I'm just looking at the stats from last year like they go 10
from 20 for three at home against Ohio State and then this
is just attempted threes in the games afterwards.
This is last season 11101261111. So like, I I I hear you.
My only counter is, you know all of last week we're talking about
how this needs to change. Like one game it did.
We've seen these these blips go up.
I the the one thing about the confidence that I find funny, I
was telling somebody this at halftime yesterday is it's like
I wish we could bottle and just talk to Mackenzie and Bako and
be like you're playing the 1st 4 minutes of the game, the entire
game. Because the 1st 4 minutes every
game he comes out like an absolute stud.
He shooting with, you know with confidence, like he shoots great
and then you know maybe it's he's on the bench too long, I
don't know. But like the rest of the game it
feels like he's trying to reintegrate himself And he had
he had one shot you know 1/3 that was way off and it's just
like that's the first four minute.
McKenzie is like the best possible McKenzie.
It's almost like you you don't want to take him out ever
because like it feels like once he hits the bench the first time
it's like he has a hard time getting back to that.
But anyway. Well, no, I It's a good point
and I think it's frustrating and to some degree it felt like one
of the reasons why Iowa got back in the game.
I mean, there's coaching going on Mackenzie and Bako's getting
benched because Mike Woodson doesn't like what's happening
with him defensively and that's. He he left Stanford completely
wide open for a three and that's why he.
Got and and there's no question he's having bad moments
defensively. Still less, less than he was
having at the beginning of the season, but still not good.
But I think the problem right now is that we know Woodson is
doing what most coaches would do, which is, oh, you're going
to screw up on defense. I'm going to put your ass on the
bench. But the problem is that
Mackenzie and Bacco is having a real hard time reintegrating
into the team and the game flow once that happens.
And so you know you you, it's a tricky one.
And I don't envy Mike Woodson and the coaching staff on this
because on the one hand you can't just let blown defensive
assignments go. But on the other hand this is a
guy who when he's properly engaged is is, you know, he's
he's given, he's, he's had now 7, there's now six straight
games in double figures offensively.
And while that's not everything, realistically Indiana needs
those points because they have struggled to score the points
that they need to be competitive in games.
And he helped you drive to a 15 point lead to start the game,
so. You know, this is where This is
why coaches make a lot of money. You could try to thread that
needle in terms of of how you deal with a player like that is
a really complicated thing. But what you talked about with
the, the variants in the threes, that is, that happens with every
team. I think the other thing about
last night's game that really stuck out was for the first time
in a while, Indiana, honest to God, was awesome at offensive
rebounding. I mean they.
They. They got rebounds on 38.2% of
opportunities on the offensive glass last night.
That is the highest number that Indiana has registered since the
Maryland game when they grabbed basically 43% of offensive
rebound possibilities. And as we've talked about on
this show, as I talked about when I was on Podcast on the
Brink, that is a potentially key component of the offense that
has just not shown up. And you know, part of it was
yesterday. I mean, Khalil Ware just had a
physical advantage over a lot of the people that were playing for
Iowa. But it showed what the
possibilities could be if you're dedicated to getting offensive
rebounds. And it wasn't just Mackenzie or
excuse me, it wasn't just Khalil Ware that was grabbing offensive
rebounds. I mean it was, it was a
collective effort. You know, Trey Galloway had an
offensive rebound, Xavier Johnson had one and Baco had
one, Walker had one, Leo had one.
There were there were three team offensive rebounds.
I mean those things add up. They extend possessions and they
make it so that even if you're missing threes, it is possible
to grab offensive rebounds. Like, it doesn't have to be an
either or situation. Well, and it's not even a size.
I'm just going back to the Ruckers game like we you know
they out rebounded us in the offensive glass 19 to 8 and they
have nobody over 7 foot. So to I mean to the point like
it's not just about there's no one to guard Cleo where it's
like Rutgers really doesn't have nobody to guard him either and
it didn't happen and you also had to renew in that game.
So I'm I'm with you and and it goes down to again you don't get
extra credit for effort but it's good to see it and a lot of it
just can't. A lot of those team rebounds and
offensive rebounds just came down to effort and just came
down to like the ball kind of got tipped around and and we
went and got it and and to be fair like Iowa was giving effort
to they just they out effort it. I wasn't like Iowa was kind of
not going after things. We just out effort of them,
which was really good to see. Yeah, what else took out since
you were at the game I was watching at the upstairs pub,
you were at the game. What else stuck out to you?
I'm trying to. I not I mean not not anything
not anything else that we haven't hit are already.
I mean I guess that the one thing I would say is just it was
looking back kind of interesting in a positive way how unfazed
this team seem to be by the injuries.
And what I mean is not that they don't care not they don't care
about their teammates, but that that's, you know Malik Renew is
one of, if not the best player on this team.
And then goes out and they watch him hobbling around like trying
to get to the locker room. That was tough.
That could have they they ended up, I think going on like A12O
run after that. It didn't seem to phase them and
like I said in a good way. And same thing with you know
Xavier. Xavier goes down, the teams just
standing there around him. They all kind of doing that.
Oh God, they have that look like, oh gosh the they could
tell it wasn't good. And then that was when I was in
the midst of a run. So I just, I think seeing their
reaction to to those two things for a team that for the last
couple weeks we've kind of been saying, you know they're they're
making silly decisions. They're not seeming to be locked
in or making you know less than stellar decisions on the court.
I will say I was impressed seeing the the kind of the, the
mental aspect of this team, just being able to, you know, put
that aside, segmented over and continue to play the basketball
game and very much a, you know, like I saw Anthony Walker go in
for Xavier Johnson, just be like, all right, I'm ready to go
and let's just play basketball. And I think to me that was
impressive to see in person. That's good to hear.
Now I mean, and even on on TVI mean most of the frustrations
that people were having were just like, how is Iowa coming
back in this game? Look, I mean, Iowa had two
players that really played incredibly well.
You know, you know, you're going to get Peyton Sanford.
It's just like, oh good. We needed someone to fill that
role of that Iowa guy and you. Everybody knows who that Iowa
guy is. There have been that Iowa guys
for like the last 40 years and obviously Tony Perkins.
Normally Fran McCaffrey makes them, but yes.
Right. That's a good point.
Yeah, Fran was like you know we're not forget the OE Ms. like
we're we're going to do the I am the OEM.
Yeah, I guess 18 years ago, Mrs. McCaffrey was like, I'm out,
like I'm out. I'm not making any more
Mccaffrey's for a while, although there still is a
McCaffrey on the team, but yeah. But anyway, I I I think
ultimately it's funny. Like there were a lot of flaws
in the game. And you know, Indiana just for
whatever reason, does not seem to possess the ability
collectively to put opponents away.
I mean, you can look at the entire span of this season and
there's really not a single game where you feel like Indiana just
won it comfortably. I think the closest is probably
the North Alabama game, but almost every other game on the
on the schedule. You know, even the Minnesota
game a couple of weeks ago, it was just kind of like, well,
they won, but it wasn't convincing.
Maybe Harvard, but yeah, I'm with you.
Yeah, but you know in this game you're going to get more games
like this in the Big 10 than games where you're putting
opponents away. And I was a good enough team
that, you know, I don't think you're just going to put them
away automatically. So I was, I was pleased to see
that even though Indiana lost what had allowed them to
establish possession of the game, they came back.
They weren't fazed by the injuries.
They weren't fazed by the fact that Iowa seemed to be hitting
everything under the sun for about a 7 or 8 minute span.
I mean as as much of A momentum shift has happened in favor of
Iowa, for Indiana to grab it back down to with a minute 40 to
play like that does that's what Indiana fans have been waiting
for. I think is is something like
this where and we kind of saw it in the Ohio State game, but not
quite cause like that was a game where Indiana was leading that
game and then Ohio State came back and made it really close.
This was almost like, yes, it was.
It was a similar pattern, but in this one, it kind of felt like a
lot more tenuous because of all the injuries.
For Indiana to win, this one felt a little more special.
It was a game they absolutely had to have, and it was a game
that from a, you know, to be an underdog at home against the
team that is not projected to be in the NCAA tournament right now
is a real slap in the face. But it's also a very clear
indicator of how far Indiana stock has fallen based upon how
they've played, based upon what the metrics say.
And so it was really good to see them not just emotionally come
away with the victory, but to some degree defy the analytics
that have defined them so far over the course of the season by
doing certain things like the three-point shooting, like the
offensive rebounding that they just hadn't really done as
effectively up to this point. But also I mean that the end
play, you know sometime in the second-half, maybe like 10
minutes to go or so like the Gabe Cups got a pass in the
corner and was wide open and kind of just looked at it and
then didn't take it and like the whole crowd was like take it,
like take it, they didn't he passed it off.
So it's it's nice kind of redemption that he's, he's the
one who hits the final three. He was like wide, wide open.
So there is some redemption to that.
So no, but I'm with you that was AI mean what was interesting too
is being there. All I can say is you you can
feel the assembly hall like it. It never got that crazy tense
feel of like, Oh my God, like we're about to lose this.
Like it. It did feel like the the crowd
kind of kept getting back into it.
Like there wasn't that like, oh God, like this is This Is Us
letting it slip away. What you feel sometimes in those
games, like it the the crowd was definitely there and it it.
Yeah. I'm with you, yeah.
I mean, and you can kind of tell that on television as well.
I mean it's the assembly halls are pretty good barometer of
these sorts of games and it's it's interesting you watch
enough of them, you kind of get a sense of how they all filter
in Anyway. Indiana with that win, they move
back to 500 in the Big 10 and they're kind of in an
interesting spot right now in that they've got this game
coming up against Penn State. We don't know.
I think at this point I haven't seen anything on Malik Renew.
We haven't seen anything official on Xavier Johnson.
It's very possible neither of those guys will be able to go.
If you were going to have a next opponent that you had to face in
that location, it would be Penn State at Indiana, you know.
But it's again, it's one of those things where Indiana,
they're only a six point favorite on Ken Palm you know
and Penn State is kind of a a weaker version of Iowa to some
degree in that like their their best virtue as a team
offensively is that they don't turn the ball over.
And what's going to be interesting is the one thing
they really do good defensively is that they turn their
opponents over. They're they're like 21st in the
country and forcing turnovers. So it'll be an interesting
challenge for Indiana in that game.
I would expect them to win even if they're missing both of those
players. But I am interested to see how
the minutes split out and how Mike Woodson and his staff
decide that they're going to approach this from a game plan
perspective. This seems like the perfect type
of game to try to continue to build confidence from the
perimeter, you know, so if Indiana can put a line up out
there, I mean, they're not facing that.
The tallest player that Penn State has is is as cute as
Wahab, who's just 611. But this is not a tall team.
By and large, this is a team that, you know, they're 178th
and average height. Indiana is a significantly
taller team than they are, so it's going to be interesting to
see if Indiana kind of lowers their height at various
positions because they don't have to focus entirely on
matching physicality for physicality.
So I am curious to see what happens in that one.
But at this point, it's really more about can Indiana put it
together with collective will? And can they get scoring from
the people that are going to be out there knowing Malik Renew
might not be part of the roster that day.
Yeah, I mean you don't have must wins in January, but you do have
them in February. So you know February 3rd.
This is whether Malik Renew, Xavier Johnson are or are not
playing or even how healthy Khalil Wear is.
It's like this is a must win. You just you, you cannot lose
this game with what's facing you, what's facing ahead of you.
You know when you look at Penn State then they haven't won on
the road this year so that that helps.
They haven't been a great Rd. team.
They did beat Wisconsin at home, which is an outlier of sorts.
But the only concerning thing with that game where Penn State
beat Wisconsin is that Ace Baldwin by the way like top
level name. Like if you want to have a
shooter, name your kid Ace Ace Baldwin and Zach Hicks together
went 711 for three. And so that that's the
concerning part is we still see this team in you know Stanford
with with Iowa. He's a really good elite 3 point
shooter. But this this Indiana team has
had an Achilles heel of letting 3 point shooters get hot.
It happens in Assembly Hall more than I would like it to.
So that would be the concern is if either Ace or Zach Hicks
starts getting hot, you know they they can shoot the lights
out and that's what you want to you know avoid against.
And I do think the crowd might feel a little bit different if
they get hot early, suddenly you're down you know five or six
to Penn State and then it's like oh man, this is like that maybe
that the crowd does turn a little bit.
So that that would be the concern and that's where again
back to our earlier point, you know this is where if you're
Woodson, it's just it's a tough balance because you have guys on
this team who sometimes just do blow defensive assignments.
But you you need their offense as well.
You just hope they don't blow the assignments on Baldwin or
Hicks giving up open threes. We'll see what happens.
Penn State's going to try to push the tempo a bit.
They've done that a lot so far this year.
The one thing I'm hoping for Penn State has among the worst
free throw shooting defenses in the country.
Opponents are shooting 77% from the charity strike.
Because we don't shoot well, so. Man, if you want to talk about a
get little game from the free throw strike, that's Indiana
needs that more anyway, that'll be like make sure to come see us
and upstairs that's kind of it for the game.
Scott, you I had a couple things that we were going to chat about
a little bit more next week, but just kind of some general
program related items like what what you got for us.
Yeah, that's just why you're you're giving me the, the wide
open lane there just to drive and go nuts.
No, I was, you know, I I listened to to your podcast last
week and I think they brought up a lot of good things which we
can kind of parse out as we continue going in.
I think, you know, when a win, while it doesn't solve
everything, it does help a lot. And looking into a Penn State
game where hopefully you can get a nice win and then you start
maybe making some better momentum is good.
The one thing that I was thinking about is this, like I I
got to come up with a better name.
But you know, it's something you and Zach Osterman talked about.
The idea of, you know, creens issues kind of cascades into
Archie, which then cascades into Woodson that they all kind of
compound. And I, I truly believe that as a
fan who's lived through all of this, like my angst gets higher
every year. As I was thinking about it, like
I I, I'm calling this like the happiness season index.
But it kind of goes along with those same thoughts of, you
know, like last year, for example, was a good year.
You know, like you, you did win. You get fourth in the, you know,
fourth in the tournament. You you got a protected seed,
which on the top level sounds good.
But you know last year was a year where we lost by 15 at
Rutgers. Like we lost three in a row.
And I I mentioned it many times like we lost by 19 to Penn
State. And there was a moment there
where it's like, Oh, my God, is this is this season going off
the rails? It didn't.
But then you lost to Penn State in the Big 10 tournament.
Like, it was an uneven season. That you can't say like that
season. I had a great time the whole
time. Like, there were moments I was
really concerned. I started thinking along those
same lines, like how many years over the last 20 years have you
had a season where it's just like I felt great about that
year and like, so I if you if you.
OK that's that's funny. I was, I was texting with a
friend of the pod, Trisha Whitaker, last night during the
game and I was like all I really want is a normal IU basketball
team to root for like one year. And like even last year as as as
good as that season was, it was just kind of like this weird arc
where there were several points where you're just like what is
going on? And yeah, no, I'm it is funny.
I I we think about that a lot in terms of like happiness is in
many cases anchored to consistency.
And you can have Michigan State's a great example.
Like you can have off years where you're like we're a seven
seed in the tournament, but it's still a good year and you still
feel confident because of past performances that something's
going to happen in the tournament down the line.
It's not as pressure packed. Right.
And I think this is what adds up to it is like again, last year,
that top level, it's like 4 seed in the tournament.
It's a great year but there were moments that it wasn't so I
broke it down here. Eight years that just don't
count. This is God it's way too many.
2004, 5910111417181921 we didn't make the tournament so, so none
of those count as like at IU we can talk about expectations.
You don't make the tournament. That's not a good year.
Like just a hard stop. I I came up with three.
I have three years in the last 20 and 20 is just an arbitrary.
I just don't want to keep doing this forever.
I have three years that I would say are good years.
So I'll give you the three and then I I have, I have reasons
for all the other ones. So like, I'll just, you want me
to go through it for fun? Yeah.
So 2003, you know, go through it.
There's a 5 game losing streak in the Big 10 which also
includes a Louisville game oddly.
And then you lost to Penn State to end the season.
So that wasn't awesome. 2006, you know, you fired Mike Davis
at the end of the year. It wasn't a bad you go to the
tournament, but you also lost it.
Indiana State you got a 5 game losing streak which included
UConn at that point in the Big 10.
So those years don't count. 2007, OK.
I have it as a maybe because you know you went 5-4 and five to
end the Big 10 but you did. You also had a first round loss
in the Big 10 tournament but it it wasn't what I would consider
an awful year. You know it's the first year
with Samson and new coach are kind of there. 2008 is just like
I I have it marked as what could have been because that's the
second Samson year and that is that's a whole other podcast.
I will just leave it at what could have been on that year
because things were trending well and then something
happened. 2012 I have as possibly that's the that's the
year we beat Kentucky at home with the watch shot.
But that as you've mentioned before that's a year that we
went two and five in the Big 10 in January.
At one point we were five and six in the Big 10, but that was
probably really close to being there.
What's funny is 2013, everybody's like, oh, that was
the year you're #1. It's got to be like, to me,
actually it wasn't. Because I remember we beat
Michigan, we become number one, and then we immediately turn
around to lose to Illinois in a really bad, like last second
play. And then it's like we have a
home game against Ohio State, which is good to win the Big 10.
We don't clinch it. We lose to Wisconsin in the Big
10 tournament. You know it.
It's just like anyway, it's like we have a second ranked offense
in the country and we get 50 points against Syracuse.
Like that season is really hard to round as like a great year.
I'm taking too long. But I'll say the other one that
I I have as a probably is 2016 and I think you and I are in the
same spot. That's the year with Yogi.
They won the big 10. You and I, I I put this under
this is my neurosis. I just never fully believed it
was actually happening like it had been so long.
It's like, are we really going to, is this team?
When's it going to punch me in the gut?
They never did until they did lose as the #1C in the Big 10
tournament to Michigan. But they never lost at home.
They won the Big 10. So probably 2016 is the closest,
but like in 20 years, there's only three seasons that I have
where it's like that was probably an overall good year.
And my my larger point is like, I think this is what continues
to build up the angst is even the years where you think like,
oh man, 2013 was good. It's like it still was an uneven
year. And again, as IU fans, we just
were expecting more and more every year.
So I hear you there in a in a way but I think to some degree I
think the idea that there is a Nirvana of consistency so true
with any top team is is kind of fictional and I mean even look
at like Purdue last year had a great season.
They were a one seed in the tournament.
They had a stretch where they lost four out of six and that
was bookended by losses to Indiana like.
But they had such a good year leading up to that.
I think you're going to have a lot of these kinds of things
where there are swoons. And I think especially in this
era, like so much of the the, you know, we we tend to focus on
the exemplars, the seasons for schools where everything goes
right And it's like, damn, we'd love to be those folks.
But realistically, I think most programs will have games like
that every two to three weeks. And I think this was the case
even when Indiana was quote UN quote like you know, a top notch
program in college basketball. There were plenty of instances
where Indiana would lose a home game to a team that wasn't as
good as them in the night era. You know, there, there, you see
that with North Carolina. Tennessee, who's at a great
season, just lost at home to South Carolina last night.
I mean there's there's those sorts of things that happened.
So I hear you. I think we're with Indiana fans.
Where the problem is, is there's just not a lot of stacked
successful seasons where at the end of it, you know, it's like
that stat that I unfurled the other day where it's like if you
look at the the reality of the situation over the course of the
last 20 some years, Indiana hasn't made the tournament in,
you know, in three consecutive years since 2008.
You know, they they, they've made it.
They made it back-to-back in 12 and 13.
They made it back-to-back in 15 and 16 and they made it
back-to-back in 22 and 23 and like that.
That will cause you to feel like everything is upside down very
consistently. And so I think I'm, I'm a little
bit less concerned with the ebbs and flows of an individual
season to me. I think after you get through a
season you can look back on it and a lot of those, the the
peaks and valleys will even out. The problem is that the baseline
for those seasons for Indiana jumps so much, and you have a
season like last year, which ends up, you know, kind of, it
should have felt better than it did.
And then you'll have other seasons like 2016 that started
off bad and everybody was waiting for the other shoe to
drop and never did. You never fully get confident or
comfortable with what the team is putting out there.
And I think that is where, you know, for Indiana to have like a
stretch, like Purdue's hat or whatever, you know, where you
have a couple of chunks of like 5 or 6 postseason appearances in
a row. NCAA appearances in a row like
that will cure that more than anything else.
But I think it's harder now in college basketball because of
how much roster movement there is, because of how many older
players are still in the system, because of COVID.
To some degree, it's almost like, do we need to recalibrate
our expectations? Where the idea of making the
tournament 234 years in a row is hard for a lot of programs,
Villanova might miss the tournament.
You know, this year North Carolina missed the tournament
last year. That's where Indiana missed all
of the good times before the system changed.
And now everybody's got to get adapted to this new system where
I think everybody's going to be up and down.
No and and your your point is valid because I went and I tried
to look at the did a little bit. I wasn't going to look at every
big 10 teams every year like what teams have had what I would
consider a super happy season. It's it's hard to find.
I went back in the Indiana archives and like what was a
great year, You know, obviously taking the national championship
teams out because those are pretty good years.
It's like the best I'd come up with was the 9091 team.
That team lost at home to Ohio, they lost at Ohio State, they
lost at home to Iowa, but they finished fifteen and three in
the Big 10, went in the tournament as an NCAA two seed.
They didn't do well in the Big 10 tournament that year, didn't
finish well. I'm just joking.
There's no Big 10 tournament. That's that's funny.
Yeah, but but so so your your point is well taken.
I think the other thing that is hurting, not just the
consistency but you know the the years that we've been good and
had the spikes. You know we haven't had the top
level up line success. Like we've won two Big 10 titles
in those years that we were good but you know half joking but
it's like there's not a lot of other Big 10 tournament success
and then not a lot of NCAA tournament success where is like
in 2013 if that team doesn't lose the Syracuse just makes the
final four. That that glow I think covers up
a lot of the peaks and valleys as well too.
You know where you're you're mentioning you know teams like
Villanova, it's like I don't know, you don't mean this way.
It's like you win a title that covers up seven years, you can
do a lot of mistakes between here and there, even a Final
Four with this team. And I think that's what also is
hurting because even Purdue has had ups and downs, but they're
consistently doing well in the Big 10, winning Big 10 titles,
winning Big 10 tournaments. And so last year, you know,
wasn't a success for them, but they still won a Big Ten title,
won the Big 10 tournament, you know, didn't beat Fairly
Dickinson. But anyway, I I hear exactly
what you're saying. I just my thought is that you
know even the seasons that we would consider quote UN quote
good had moments of kind of more peril than just oh we lost a
game that sucks. Like we've had multi you know
four or five game losing streaks.
We're losing 4 out of 6 even in seasons we consider good, which
I think that just kind of helps stack the angst that Zach was
talking about. That goes year to year and
unfortunately, just like it's not, it's not getting dissipated
at all like we got to, we got to have a season, we get to the
final four to let the the steam out, so to speak.
No, I mean, look, ultimately there's nobody has felt
consistently good about the program for like 5 years in a
row in a long time and that goes back to night.
I mean, you know that like the. When we were there, it wasn't
awesome. Yeah, I mean people there was a
lot of like what's going on? Why like is it time to hang it
up, Should we move on? I mean that's that's been that
has been a constant state of the program for so long.
And that was only five years removed from a final four and 10
years move from a title so. Yeah, and and so that's the
nature of the beast. And you know, Indiana's had.
There have been bad decisions, there's been bad luck, there's
been a bunch of things that have filtered into that.
For older IU fans, they've got an idyllic picture of the past,
which wasn't all puppies and roses, but we tend to remember
it that way because what's happened in the near past hasn't
been very consistently good. And for younger fans, this is
what they've been born into. You know, it is, it is chaotic
and it feels a lot of times like Indiana if you compare them to
the programs that have had consistent success in terms of
wins, in terms of tournament appearances.
I mean, it's not just, it seems that they haven't measured up.
Indiana hasn't measured up. So that was my, you know, I'm
thinking that was the hope when Archie got hired.
It was the hope when Woodson got hired.
Can there be some stability, not just of results, but can people
feel good about the direction, the development, the the the,
you know, the the way that the program sits within the larger
landscape of college basketball and that just hasn't
materialized and we'll talk more about that next week.
This is a conversation. As you know, Indiana making the
NIT is actually important for this program.
I think like they need to do at least that.
Obviously making the NCAA tournaments what you want, the
NIT is a poor substitute, but there has to be at least some
level of consistency in terms of we're at least making the
postseason, right? So that's kind of what I'm
looking at. And what do you get out of the
remaining games? And so we'll talk about that
more in the future, but we need to wrap up now.
Any final thoughts from you? No, I'm so excited for Saturday
and looking forward to seeing whoever can make it down.
Excited to see the new upstairs. Yeah, it's, it's wild.
It's awesome. Looking forward to it.
Thank you to Hard Truth Distilling.
Looking forward to having them sponsor us over there.
And we'll look forward to meeting up with all you folks as
we host you at Upstairs alongside the fine folks at
upstairs. We'll be out there around 11:00
AM to noon and then all the way through the Penn State game and
afterwards for Scott, I'm Galen, this is Crimson Cast.
We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the
Bison. So everybody.