1 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,500 Welcome back, Crimson Cask ale include a video here. 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,400 We are in day three of the interregnum. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:20,300 As we evaluate the end of the Tom crean era and we wait to see 4 00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:22,300 what the next era is going to be. 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,500 We've got a guest here on this part of the podcasts and by 6 00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:29,900 seisen of the Hoosier.com, the Indiana rival site. 7 00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:34,900 And a man who will in the future be referred to as a legendary IU 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,900 student media member right now. He's still technically in that 9 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:40,900 General sphere. So we can't yet give the 10 00:00:40,908 --> 00:00:43,000 legendary tacked on. But it's coming in about a month 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,800 or two Sam. Welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,700 How you doing? I'm fantastic. 13 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:50,400 I don't buy the legendary thing. I might be, I'll take we took, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,900 we took an informal poll and they all agreed. 15 00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:56,400 So I was that, I don't know who they are, but I'll stand by 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,500 this. I'm probably the only IU media 17 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,400 member who ever covered. Four consecutive seasons of 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,500 Indiana. Women's soccer that nobody will 19 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:04,800 take away from it. That's a fair. 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,800 I only covered one and I think the most I ever heard of anybody 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,500 doing was too so I'm willing to yeah you at the very least that 22 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:14,600 will be on your display in the Hall of Fame. 23 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:16,400 Yeah. As long as that goes on my 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,700 Tombstone at some point I'll be more than happy so I wanted to 25 00:01:21,700 --> 00:01:24,300 talk with you. We've chatted on it off here 26 00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:27,900 particularly during this season about what's been going on with 27 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,000 IU basketball and I First question. 28 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,300 And when I asked Zach, Osterman yesterday on the podcast, what 29 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:38,000 was your reaction when you heard the news that they had indeed 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,800 fired Tom crean as you men's basketball coach? 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:47,000 Yeah, I mean, I think everybody was genuinely surprised one that 32 00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:50,200 the IU itself, broke it. I was really, really impressed 33 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,400 at the school, kept it under wraps, but yeah, I wasn't 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,600 expecting it to happen. I was at which, which about to 35 00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:01,600 dive into a pepperoni pizza, which And it popped up my phone. 36 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,200 I have the a few you know, notification settings and right 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,000 away it popped up and I was just holy crap. 38 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,500 Tom crean got fired and it was it was just surreal. 39 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:16,600 So I didn't eat my sandwich. I went home and I was just 40 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,700 surprised. I didn't expect it because even 41 00:02:18,700 --> 00:02:20,500 though people get upset, people got up. 42 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:23,500 So you know, the fire. Tom crean sign was hanging from 43 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:27,900 some kids room just off campus. I mean, there was a bunch of 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,900 noise or whatever surrounding it. 45 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,200 I didn't think they would actually fire him because for 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:37,400 whatever reason, I believe it was that until the day they told 47 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,200 us I wasn't gonna buy it because he's just survived. 48 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:45,400 You know, scare after scare after scare after season of just 49 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,900 bad basketball, he survived all of these things. 50 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:51,200 I didn't think that a year after winning the Big Ten and Big 10 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,000 coach tear you away. So I was just shocked. 52 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,800 I couldn't believe it. I still kind of a hard time 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,600 believing it. I sit there and I go yeah, Tom's 54 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,800 not going to be around anymore and that's It doesn't hit home 55 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,100 quite yet. Yeah. 56 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:06,500 I mean it's I honestly was not sure how I would feel about it 57 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:10,900 and when the news hit I was I was more stunned than anything 58 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:14,000 else. I mean, I I firmly believed that 59 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,400 they needed to make a change and I talked about that before it 60 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,400 happened but I was like you in that there seemed to have been 61 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:27,200 a, you know, a kind of a survival the gene in Tom crean 62 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,800 that right allowed him to sustain Through some things that 63 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:33,600 maybe other coaches might not of. 64 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,000 And so particularly the way that it happened, the way that the 65 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,600 week played out, and you almost got the sense that, you know, if 66 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,400 they let him Coach in the NIT, he's probably going to be back 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,600 and certainly if we go through, you know, 24 hours after an nit 68 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,200 loss and no news has come, he's probably going to be back and 69 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,800 yeah and then to have it drop at that particular time. 70 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,500 They know you were you were at which which I was in a parking 71 00:03:54,500 --> 00:04:00,300 lot you know II just just come out of buying some chips and And 72 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:02,300 I just sit in my truck for 20 minutes. 73 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:05,000 It just like answer texts and tweets, and stuff like that. 74 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,200 So it's really, it was very kind of odd experience. 75 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:13,100 But yeah, I put it this way. I was, I mean, y-you talked 76 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:16,000 about surviving, I think Alice McCarthy an actual immedia. 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,500 Legend, student media Legend is put it best. 78 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:21,100 He called, Tom crean a cockroach because he survived everything, 79 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:23,700 you know, not in a negative way, but he was a cockroach in 80 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:25,400 survival. Is there a non- way? 81 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,900 You can, you know what I mean? He would die. 82 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:33,300 I was more surprised and we talk. 83 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:36,100 It's so funny coaching things we talked about coaches when they, 84 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:38,900 when they get fired or lead. As if this post-mortem, they 85 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:41,300 died and I think didn't I Tom's alive. 86 00:04:41,300 --> 00:04:45,200 He's fine but it's he was like a cockroach who survived 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,700 everything and I'll put it this way. 88 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:49,400 I was more surprised that Kevin Wilson was fired. 89 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,600 Then Tom crean we have a Wilson got fire. 90 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,700 When Tim Wilson parted ways with the school. 91 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:56,200 I shouldn't say fired because technically it wasn't firing but 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,900 whatever fired with Kevin Wilson. 93 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:01,600 Got fired. I was like, whoa, why would you 94 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,900 do that? This is a bad idea. 95 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:04,300 I don't like that. Like, this is bad. 96 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:05,700 I was shocked. I didn't, I didn't. 97 00:05:05,700 --> 00:05:07,400 I was up. I was almost upset, like, 98 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,800 cabbage do. I didn't think he had done in 99 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,600 the moment, anything wrong? I thought he was fine. 100 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,400 I was more surprised than that. I was gonna was now. 101 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:18,700 And that's that to me, seems weird. 102 00:05:19,700 --> 00:05:22,100 I don't know. I mean, I think obviously the 103 00:05:22,108 --> 00:05:24,900 circumstances were different. I mean, you come off of beating 104 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:27,900 Purdue and you got the old Oaken Bucket. 105 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:31,100 You're going to a bowl game. It seems so out of left field. 106 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:33,700 You could say that you were surprised. 107 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:35,600 You? I mean, just the Royal you you 108 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,800 could say that you were surprised about Tom, crean 109 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:41,100 getting fired, but you certainly couldn't claim that it came out 110 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:42,900 of left field. I mean, the what the way that 111 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:46,000 the season ended and just the general tenor around the 112 00:05:46,008 --> 00:05:50,000 basketball program and in the fan base, I mean it I wouldn't 113 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,600 have been shocked either way. I would have been. 114 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,400 I think disappointed from an observers and Fan's perspective, 115 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,800 if they hadn't made a change, but I don't think anybody could 116 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,900 have said my God, I can't believe that they fired, Tom 117 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:03,200 crean unless you're in the National media, right? 118 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,100 Because apparently, they they think everything is fine 119 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:08,900 everything. So let's bet the different 120 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:09,800 podcast. What's? 121 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,300 Yeah, well know. What might it might be this 122 00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:14,500 podcast, if we could get a little bit the first off, I 123 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:18,700 guess it's, you know, nine years some ups and some Downs. 124 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:26,300 Can you give me kind of a a like recap? 125 00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:28,200 The Tom crean are alike. Give me. 126 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,900 Give me the the wrap up from your point cuz you were here for 127 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:37,000 almost half of it, basically. Yeah, I came in, I mean, I did 128 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000 not really care for Indiana basketball, you know, when Tom 129 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,700 crean was hired because that would have been when I was like 130 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:45,100 a freshman in high school, I didn't really care about. 131 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:49,200 But I knew Tom crean was, I know who Indiana basketball the The 132 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,900 Entity was so when I got hired, of course, I followed it. 133 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:53,700 I didn't really care about it, but I followed it. 134 00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:57,700 I mean, if I'm trying to sum up Tom, Green's Legacy is history 135 00:06:57,700 --> 00:07:02,400 in as brief as possible. The guy inherited a complete 136 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,700 mess where the program was teetering on. 137 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:07,000 I mean, you talk about is it a blue blood or is it not a 138 00:07:07,008 --> 00:07:08,900 Blueblood? It was teetering around the fact 139 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:12,200 that can this program sustain itself with the NCAA sanctions 140 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,200 that were kind of levied against it just a state of the program. 141 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,700 What he had it was on the verge of collapsing. 142 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:20,000 It could have gone. One of two ways, Either grow it 143 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:24,600 or your broken for a really, really long time and he grew the 144 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,000 program rather quickly. I mean, you talk about three or 145 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,800 four years and suddenly it was it was back to where it was 146 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,800 respectable and that I think that takes a special kind of 147 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,100 person to take this, this terrible situation. 148 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:43,300 The Indiana basketball is in and say, let's commit to, to 149 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:45,400 building this with the right people, you know, the 150 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,200 stereotypical cliche, you know they're good, guys, they do 151 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,800 things right. Go to class. 152 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,200 They're happy to be around. They respect the program. 153 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:58,200 He built that very quickly out of absolutely nothing, but then 154 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,200 when he got good, when he got to that next step of, okay. 155 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,700 Tom Indiana. Basketball is, is okay, now it's 156 00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:08,800 in a good spot. Now, make it great, make it what 157 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,300 we want it to be. I think he's struggled to 158 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:16,500 maintain those two, I guess different ideas of Indiana 159 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:18,900 basketball. Does things the right way and 160 00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:22,300 they Indiana, basketball is Elite it because it's hard to 161 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:23,600 measure. Okay, these kids, I'll do the 162 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,200 right things and they're really, really, really good at 163 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,300 basketball, Cody. Zeller was one of those guys 164 00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:29,900 Victor Oladipo is one of those guys. 165 00:08:31,100 --> 00:08:33,100 Jordan, holes is one of those guys, but it's hard to find 166 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:36,400 those guys consistently and I think Tom just struggled. 167 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,500 And that's where you ended up getting kids like a hunter 168 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:42,000 muscare. Aprea Stanford Robinson who you 169 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,300 know did themselves in with off the court things or whatever, 170 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:48,300 whatever you did wrong and that whole Devin Davis, all these 171 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:52,600 things and that's kind of where things started to go off track. 172 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:54,600 So Tom went from okay. You built this program of good 173 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,100 guys into a program where you're teetering on greatness. 174 00:08:58,300 --> 00:08:59,900 You're okay. Now you have to get these really 175 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:04,400 talented players, picked allow the wrong ones that set him back 176 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,400 and he could never find that next jump. 177 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 That next, that next step in the ladder of, okay? 178 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,300 Your get all these kids that do basketball the right way, the 179 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:14,800 way the Indiana fans want. And they're really good at 180 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,000 basketball and now you're great again. 181 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:22,300 He could never find Next step and he got awful close to it and 182 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:26,300 we need to give them credit for that but it just wasn't, it 183 00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:28,500 wasn't there, he couldn't, he couldn't do it. 184 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:32,300 Yeah, something that we talked about on the podcast yesterday 185 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:34,800 or two days ago where you know there's there's a certain 186 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,700 intangible that allows you to coach at this particular level. 187 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:42,900 And, you know, I mean, one of the big conflicts that we've 188 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:47,400 been seeing and we saw this before cream, got fired, was the 189 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,200 idea of where is I You basketball in the pecking order. 190 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,600 And, you know, whether you want to argue, it's still like, you 191 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,500 know, you know, top five or six job like right outside the, you 192 00:09:57,500 --> 00:10:01,000 know, kind of the Holy four teams of UNC and Duke and 193 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,800 Kentucky and Kansas. Whether you want to argue, it's 194 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,500 further down the list. The, you know, there's, there's 195 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,200 a certain consistency in that in the types of players that you 196 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,100 can get and this in the way that you're playing and all of those 197 00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:16,500 things, and it just seemed like after that initial push. 198 00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:21,800 He was never quite able to And it together enough and you know, 199 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:27,700 we've talked about this a little bit off off the podcast but even 200 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:31,400 even last year's team the the Big Ten Champion team. 201 00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:34,600 I mean that that was an interesting mix of players that 202 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,800 really needed a couple of like late transfers in to have the 203 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,500 team chemistry that was needed to do what they needed to do to 204 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:43,900 win the title. You know I mean if you don't 205 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:48,100 have Zeiss loft or Beale felt on that team, I don't think they 206 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:49,400 win the Big Ten. Tournament. 207 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,800 There would be the Big Ten regular season title that Year 208 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,100 and no chance, that's not. And that's obviously cream 209 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:56,900 deserves credit for bringing those guys in. 210 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:58,700 But by the same token, they weren't part of the original 211 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:02,300 plan. And, you know, so it's it is 212 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:05,400 interesting watching the way that the team has developed over 213 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,000 the course of the last four or five years and you know, how 214 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,500 different the trajectory seems to have gone from where it 215 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:14,400 seemed to be. I mean, you know, when you when, 216 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,000 when everybody's sitting there, you know, on on April 1st. 1013, 217 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,800 yeah, there's disappointment after the Syracuse laws but I 218 00:11:22,808 --> 00:11:27,500 don't know that anybody expects that in April or March of 2017, 219 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:29,800 four years later were sitting in the spot that we're in right 220 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,900 now. Like, it didn't seem conceivable 221 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,100 know it. Because you, didn't you thought 222 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:38,200 that they were there, like, it's basketball. 223 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,400 We forget how hard it is, especially at the college level, 224 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,500 where kids come in and out, especially basketball, where 225 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:46,700 kids can literally come in and out in a year. 226 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,700 That the turnover is so massive. It puts a lot of pressure on 227 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:54,500 these coaches to keep on recreating the Greek creating 228 00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:57,800 themselves in the same way. I mean, you forget just how much 229 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,400 a team can change from year to year. 230 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,000 So when they were sitting there in that wonderful 2013 team, you 231 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,900 had to know that at some point the music was going to stop and 232 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:09,600 and you had to hope that these next kids coming in. 233 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,700 We're going to carry on whatever the banner was the, the might 234 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:18,800 the mindset, just the attitude, the Swagger of that. 235 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,300 This neck, these next guys had to do it and they never did. 236 00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:28,000 And I don't exactly understand why, you know, what creates 237 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,300 that. Because when you look at, and 238 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,400 we've talked about last year's team a lot, and you look at the 239 00:12:31,408 --> 00:12:33,300 guys that they brought in the next life soft, my Maxfield 240 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:36,200 belts, they came in and they were kind of tough. 241 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,200 They were hard guys, you weren't going to mess with them and they 242 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,900 backed Yogi Ferrell so they had like the Superstar of the team 243 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,800 was backed by these guys. Who did everything very firmly? 244 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:53,100 Lee very affirmative. Dave, Lee very hard-nosed and it 245 00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:54,700 worked. It worked so beautifully. 246 00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:58,100 Well because everybody bought into it, I think that these 247 00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:02,300 other teams this year's team and this year's team a lot just they 248 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:05,000 didn't buy into one particular goal. 249 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,500 They were going into these different directions all at once 250 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,800 and that hurt them. When you got a group of five got 251 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,300 five guys, who want to win a big time. 252 00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:14,900 Maybe two or three guys who want to just go. 253 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:18,100 The NBA three or four guys to just want to go to school a 254 00:13:18,108 --> 00:13:20,200 couple guys to just Play on Indiana basketball. 255 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,400 You don't have a single, you're not a single entity anymore. 256 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,900 You're just a group of guys playing basketball together and 257 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:32,900 Tom was, it's not as necessarily his direct fault, that it didn't 258 00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:36,100 develop that, it didn't cultivate that way, but he's the 259 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:37,200 one that's supposed to be doing it. 260 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,400 And he's the one that supposed to be bringing the players to do 261 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,400 it. And it's just surreal, it's hard 262 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,100 to put direct blame on him for that, not developing, because it 263 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:50,000 is up to the player. Layers, but it's a good thing. 264 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,800 He's the leader and he's the one you kind of fall back on and 265 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,200 say, why didn't it work, why didn't you do this? 266 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,100 And now he's got to go figure it out somewhere else. 267 00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:01,100 Yeah, and I mean, I go back and forth on that because you're 268 00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:04,300 right, I mean, you know, there is a certain culture that has to 269 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:07,700 develop and the players have to be the ones that lead the way, 270 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:09,700 but you also have to pick the right guys? 271 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,300 Yeah. And I think that if I was 272 00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:16,400 talking with, with somebody who you were going back and forth 273 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:17,800 about, you know, why didn't this work? 274 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,800 And one of the things She said that I, that is stuck with me, 275 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,500 is, you know, cream seems to really understand the game of 276 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:28,200 basketball. But, but really struggled the 277 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,300 last four years to understand people. 278 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:33,700 And the people that he was bringing into the program and 279 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:35,800 it's not to say that all the people he brought in, you know, 280 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,700 didn't fit and, you know, and I think, you know, sometimes it's 281 00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:42,600 more of a personality interface with the coach or maybe the 282 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,000 personally personality interface with the other people on the 283 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,600 team. But there's really no denying 284 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,500 that three out of the last four. For years, this team, there was 285 00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:53,800 something off about the way that they played basketball together 286 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:57,700 and it seem to mesh last year. I think, for a lot of the 287 00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:01,500 reasons that you just elucidated that you had, you know, tough 288 00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:05,300 guys, who understood what it took to win, and, you know 289 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:08,900 happened to fit well with the personality that was needed on 290 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:12,500 that team. And once that went away, it was 291 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,500 back to the problems that you had. 292 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:17,200 When you had a relatively young team full of personalities that 293 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,300 it mesh together well, in Teen in 2015. 294 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,300 So it's a really it's interesting. 295 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:27,300 I mean and and you know how much blame gets put on one individual 296 00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:31,900 is always a prickly proposition but the that is at the end of 297 00:15:31,908 --> 00:15:35,500 the day your job as as a head basketball coach, particularly 298 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,800 one that you know where the you're getting, you're getting 299 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,900 the money, you're getting the focus. 300 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,300 There's a lot of good things that go with that, but then, the 301 00:15:43,308 --> 00:15:45,900 bad thing is that, if you're not getting the results, this is 302 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:48,700 what ends up happening. And I've had just because you 303 00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:51,200 You mentioned this the the basketball part of it, Tom crean 304 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,000 knowing basketball, he does, he's a basketball genius. 305 00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:59,300 I mean that I believe that he just works harder than everybody 306 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:01,400 and there's something to be said for studying and knowing what 307 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,100 you're doing, but I've had to, I guess one current player one 308 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:06,800 former player. Give me the same variation of 309 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,300 the same description of time crane where he makes basketball 310 00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:14,100 rocket science. And that works, I think I've 311 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:17,300 told you this before, but that works very, very well for 312 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:21,300 players like Yogi Ferrell. And it works very, very well for 313 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,200 for guy even like Troy Williams that can just get it and latch 314 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,800 onto it and like be studies it and he Embraces it but then some 315 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,900 people turn that away and they just go I just trying to play 316 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:33,600 basketball. Let's not overcomplicate things 317 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,600 by switching up a defense in the middle of a in the middle of a 318 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,300 possession. A guy like Stanford Robinson was 319 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:41,500 very open and saying I don't like this out, I can't 320 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:43,700 understand that I don't want to have to make decisions on the 321 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,200 Fly. I want to play basketball and 322 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,300 that I think It was one of times greatest strengths was just how 323 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,400 much he knew the game but it was also one of his weaknesses and 324 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,800 not everybody knows the game quite like you and you have to 325 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,600 be able to relate it to a very fastly different group of guys. 326 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:02,400 And I think that hurt him a lot more often than we get credit 327 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,900 for. It's just guys not understanding 328 00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,099 exactly what they were supposed to do. 329 00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:08,800 Yeah. See that's what that stuff. 330 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,400 This connects to something that I said yesterday that I'm 331 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,599 interested in getting your take on it you know I don't know if 332 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,099 you read that piece were Bruiser. 333 00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:24,800 Flint, the former coach at Drexel and UMass who took a year 334 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,400 off and like, went around with at times when around with Larry 335 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,600 Brown and like, you know, they went to practices, they went and 336 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,800 saw coaches and teams and he got asked in this piece of all, the 337 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,100 the coaches you saw and all the practices. 338 00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:41,900 You saw who impressed you the most and I said, oh, Tom, crean 339 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:44,500 and Indiana. No question and Larry Brown 340 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:46,300 agreed. I mean, you know, Larry Brown. 341 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:47,900 That's a be that guy's a basketball. 342 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:52,800 Genius and Ledges. And you know, you heard anybody 343 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,000 that talks about crean in the basketball firmament, whether 344 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,800 it's in the media or whether it's in the coaching profession, 345 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,600 they all have, all these wonderful things to say about 346 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,500 Tom crean, the basketball coach like you know, like you said, he 347 00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:13,300 prepares so hard for everything. And his practices are so 348 00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:17,100 detailed. And so there's a just like, 349 00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:21,400 every eventuality D is covered. And that's what you hear in the 350 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,600 broadcast is what you hear. Whenever people get asked about 351 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,100 Tom crean and foremost National people, you know, the Jay bilas 352 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:31,400 is of the world and and you know the Seth Greenberg is the world. 353 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,500 That's all, they really know of Tom crean is like, here's here's 354 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,400 what we've seen in practices and here's what we know from talking 355 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,800 to our other people in the coaching profession. 356 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,700 And yet you couldn't possibly have watched neiu game this year 357 00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:49,900 and looked at the team as they played and said, wow, this is a 358 00:18:49,908 --> 00:18:53,800 really well prepared team. It was almost as if at times, 359 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,500 they didn't know what they were supposed to do with in 360 00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,000 possessions, let alone who session to possession. 361 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:04,400 And so I have this theory that you know cream Mary you know may 362 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,000 very well be a basketball genius. 363 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,400 He really understands the game he certainly is a really 364 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:16,500 insightful offensive mind but he seems to struggle to translate 365 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,700 what he knows about the game. Into the players in practices 366 00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:20,900 and those practices may be great. 367 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:23,300 They may be so detailed but like you said at the end of it 368 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,700 there's just there's things that are missing in the translation 369 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:31,800 of what he knows versus what the players need to process in the 370 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,800 game, to be able to go out there and do what they need to do. 371 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,800 It's very simplistic and, you know, in this day, it doesn't 372 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,000 matter. This is basketball. 373 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,000 If this is anything but the greatest teacher isn't the one 374 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,500 that knows the most. It's the one that teaches the 375 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,400 best. It's the a person that can take 376 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,500 their knowledge and related and it's relating to people is so 377 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:58,800 hard and try as we might, it's not as simple as just listening 378 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,300 and talking you genuinely have to to get on this wavelength for 379 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,600 you think like the other person where you can that you can 380 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,200 empathize, you can sympathize. You can anything that ends in 381 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,400 eyes, I guess you have to be a people person and I don't think 382 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,900 that just Tom's personality was a people person necessarily 383 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,900 Really, I think that you just wanted to coach basketball and 384 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:27,400 he wanted to win games and he wanted to rely on these papers 385 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,000 in front of them that we're all. I mean, you make fun of his 386 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,700 papers that he holds and games. Not you again, Royal you but 387 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:38,400 like that, that maybe you too. But you know, it, you make fun 388 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,000 of it but it's like no genuinely. 389 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,200 That's what he thinks will help him win the games because that's 390 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,900 the number say, and that's what the data says, and that's what 391 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,800 you know, Trend say, but I don't think Think you ever got that 392 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,800 human element? I really don't where he went 393 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,200 from being a teacher, that knows everything to a teacher that can 394 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,800 teach and that slowed him down and some players got it. 395 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,100 And some players can understand I'm just like some, you know, 396 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,100 some kids sitting in finite mathematics right now is going, 397 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:08,400 this is great. It's awesome. 398 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,500 This teacher so smart and understand it and the kid next 399 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:12,900 to him is going, I'm totally lost because they are not the 400 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:14,600 same wavelength. I just don't think that Tom 401 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,900 could universally recruit people there on the same way. 402 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:20,700 Flying through the so hard to see a 17 year old kid sometimes 403 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:22,500 as early as 16 year old kids and go. 404 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,700 Yeah, he's gonna understand exactly what I'm saying to him 405 00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:29,300 all the time. There's a lot of risk in that 406 00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:31,800 and I just don't think it had enough but I could totally 407 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,000 wrong. We're speculating, but just, I 408 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,600 mean that's that's what we left with and the. 409 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,100 But that's I look I think it's a fair thing to do and I think 410 00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:44,600 that we will certainly see as we move forward and we get a little 411 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,200 bit of distance between us and the Tom crean are, I Think we'll 412 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,400 see things a lot more clearly because we'll have more to 413 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,200 compare. I'm actually quite fascinating 414 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,500 to see where he lands in his next coaching, job to get a 415 00:21:57,508 --> 00:22:00,500 sense of how those teams play and see if it's the same things. 416 00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:04,900 Or if there's Lessons Learned, let's talk about the IU job. 417 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:09,300 Sure. So we've heard a lot of people 418 00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:12,100 weighing in on this and I know you guys have been doing a lot 419 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:16,100 of good work over at the Hoosier in trying to cover this job 420 00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:20,400 search. Like what are you expecting? 421 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,600 Moving forward with this job? Search, are you expecting? 422 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,200 I you to shoot for the moon and hit it? 423 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,500 Are you expecting them to go in a direction? 424 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:30,900 Nobody's thinking of, is there a way that you're leaning right 425 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:35,100 now? I'm sort of leaning towards just 426 00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:39,200 because I do think that Fred glass wants to appease people 427 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,700 want to make must make people happy. 428 00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:43,100 I don't think we're gonna get a surprise name, like, I don't 429 00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:45,600 think we're going to get Tom crane again, you know, where 430 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,800 it's like really awkward, you know that box. 431 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:55,800 He's going under a different Alias, he's Thomas Crane and we 432 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,100 in he looks a little but trust me he's new there but they're 433 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,200 not they're not going to go to a Marquette. 434 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,600 I don't think and just grab some bud buddy that that's hot and 435 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,000 that seems to be doing well I don't think they're going to do 436 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,600 that. I think that they're going to 437 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,500 want to get a name that makes everybody say. 438 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:16,200 Yeah. Like Billy Donovan like he knows 439 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,600 what he's doing like that's that's Be clear? 440 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,800 I mean whether or not they can hit that, I don't know. 441 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,700 But I think that's going to be their first and foremost goal of 442 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,400 hiring a home run type Guy where everybody happy everybody sees 443 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,800 it and goes that makes sense. Like they're not going to do 444 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,500 what football did and just get Tom Allen and, you know, this is 445 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,400 your first head coaching job, go for it. 446 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,500 I don't think they're gonna do that. 447 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:42,200 I think they're going to go try to get a name that is got some 448 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,000 element of sexiness to it. And I think I take their time, I 449 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,400 really people keep asking Sam where You lean. 450 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,000 Where do you want to go? Where do you want them to go? 451 00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:53,300 I don't really know enough to care. 452 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:55,600 Like I don't know what's going on in Fred glasses head cuz I 453 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,100 didn't know that he's gonna fire the guy until yesterday or two 454 00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:02,500 days ago, whatever day around a 3, it's been such a world. 455 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:05,900 I can't pretend to know what he's even thinking at this 456 00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:08,600 point, but I do think they're going to try to hit the Home Run 457 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,900 higher and I do think that makes sense because it will make 458 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,000 people happy. I think it'll help with 459 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,500 recruiting especially on a national level. 460 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,100 I don't care if they're Indiana kids or Missouri kids or 461 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:25,700 California, kids, or from Hawaii as not kids, that can play 462 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:27,800 basketball. If I'm an Indiana fan and that's 463 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,600 not what people tend to think, but that's what I want. 464 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,900 Is just a coach that can just put things together very quickly 465 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,400 and rebuild because you're inheriting an okay situation we 466 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,500 think depending on who leaves for the NBA. 467 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,900 Yeah, I would shoot for I keep going back to the name, Billy 468 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:48,300 Donovan but I would I would shoot for a name that that 469 00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:50,600 people are going to go. That makes a lot of sense. 470 00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:54,900 So you seem to be of the opinion that IU is still a job that 471 00:24:54,900 --> 00:25:00,000 would attract a name like that. I am because I wasn't like five 472 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,800 days ago but what I started doing is through like the four 473 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,100 years of covering college sports as a student journalist, I've 474 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:12,500 become friends with a lot of student journalists naturally 475 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:16,200 from around the big toe. I'm from around the really. 476 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,200 I mean, the country. I've got like eight different 477 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,700 variations of the same group chat, that turns into, like we 478 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:23,900 met on Twitter or we met at that. 479 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:28,800 One thing in Omaha and I basically just went through the 480 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,900 other day and I texted what ends up being think about 45 481 00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:37,000 different student people or just recently graduated people that 482 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,500 do not have ties to Indiana and said, hey like is it Cindy a job 483 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,200 worth getting and a lot of people dispersed coming every 484 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,100 All the like two or three guys said, yes, that's still a 485 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,100 high-profile job. That's like one of the best in 486 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:52,900 the country from people that are at Illinois, Ohio, State, 487 00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:56,500 Michigan, whatever, and everybody kept on saying, and I 488 00:25:56,508 --> 00:26:00,200 agree with this wholeheartedly, it's Hoosiers not necessarily 489 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,900 the, you know, the show, the movie Hoosiers which I did not 490 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:08,300 have any ties to Indiana University, but at this school 491 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,600 in this state in Indiana University, basketball is very 492 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,200 transcending. It is the culture. 493 00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:18,800 It is what you are when you come to student orientation. 494 00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:21,400 And maybe this is because I had student orientation with Troy 495 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,700 Williams, and they were there trying to, like, kiss up to him. 496 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:27,100 I don't know. But they said, this is a 497 00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:29,700 basketball school, and this is what we do. 498 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,500 We are, we are a basketball school. 499 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,900 The football team is okay, but we are a basketball school, and 500 00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:36,300 that will be part of your identity. 501 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,800 You will go to these games. You will do this. 502 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,500 You will be happy. I mean, it could transcend 's 503 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:44,200 just what you are. It's a powerful. 504 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:49,100 Awful feeling to to have an identity and this schools 505 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:53,100 identity is basketball. And I think that attracts people 506 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:55,500 that's what attracted Tom crane with this whole like this 507 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,800 Indiana thing. And I guess like the short 508 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,200 version of what I just said is it's a good job because the 509 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,300 culture is so long-standing, it doesn't have to rebuild from 510 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:06,200 scratch. There's donors who support it. 511 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,100 There's a fan base that's going to support it. 512 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,300 No matter what mean, the stand base would have gone to an IT 513 00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:11,400 game. It was here. 514 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,100 It will always be. Good job because of the history 515 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,700 and I think that for as long as people record history, which I 516 00:27:20,708 --> 00:27:23,900 assume is gonna be forever. People will remember that. 517 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,400 Hey, Indiana basketball! The chance for you to do 518 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,000 something special in front people, who really, really 519 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,100 obsess over it. And I think there's an element 520 00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:35,500 to that that's going to attract a lot of high-profile coaches. 521 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,100 I do. I'll get you out with this 522 00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,300 question. When do you think we're going to 523 00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:43,000 hear something definitive on the coaching search? 524 00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:46,800 Lets I might do a game where like people are gonna think I 525 00:27:46,808 --> 00:27:51,300 have the scoop April 23rd. You think that late, huh? 526 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,100 Yeah, I think it's going to be a while I genuinely do. 527 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:56,600 I was able to write their little 5, that'd be terrible. 528 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,100 Yeah. It might be having to cover that 529 00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:00,000 during little five. I wouldn't. 530 00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:02,900 I would just add be my retirement, I'd say whatever. 531 00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:06,400 I don't care. We'll be at the bicycle race. 532 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,600 Yeah, I think it's going to be a while because I think, I think 533 00:28:09,608 --> 00:28:12,000 Fred glass is going to treat this. 534 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,600 Like he's operating with a live bomb, like he is going to make 535 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,800 sure he does all of his groundwork, interviewing anybody 536 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,800 and everybody who will show interest, he's going to ask 537 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,700 anybody and everybody for their opinion, he respects obviously, 538 00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:33,900 for for who they should have. Are I don't think he's gonna 539 00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:37,100 leave any stone unturned because he knows that this is is the 540 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:40,200 most important decision he'll have made as an Indiana. 541 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,900 Thought of director, this will Define. 542 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,800 It was either he wants to wait, you had to find your legacy 543 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,600 either as being forever. Tied with Tom cream if you 544 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,800 extended. And when Tom goes quite frankly 545 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,200 I thought Fred would have gone or you make the most important 546 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,100 decision of your life in terms of your job by hiring the next 547 00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:04,700 coach of Indiana basketball. And Brad is going to feel a lot 548 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:07,900 of pressure. I mean I feel Pressure Forum. 549 00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:11,700 I can just, you know, it's a big deal and I do not think he's 550 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,600 going to rush into this. He'll take his time and he 551 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,500 doesn't care. We're waiting, it'll it's great 552 00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:20,500 for our content because we'll have weeks of, you know, doing 553 00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:22,300 podcasts, like this and saying, who should it be? 554 00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:26,600 And when is it going to happen? I don't think I can do for a 555 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,600 very long time because I said, April 23rd. 556 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,200 I'm gonna go with April 23rd. I truly think it'll be after the 557 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,200 NBA seasons over, and I'm gonna get you guys in any rush and 558 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:37,000 it'll make for a fun mom. Thor. 559 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,900 So, definitely on the Crimson cast and everywhere else, it 560 00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:43,900 certainly will. And it's, it's going to be it's 561 00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:46,400 going to be fascinating, just to watch the whole process unfold. 562 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,300 We're getting a lot of of, you know, predictions and National 563 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:53,600 people flying in, with their takes and, and they're, you 564 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,800 know, ideas on who's going to get the offers and who's going 565 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,200 to get interviews and nobody really knows anything at this 566 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,300 point. Last question. 567 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:04,400 Yeah, I'm gonna flip it on. Is this anything like anything 568 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,800 you have been a part of this, this next Watching circus for 569 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,800 it's just for me it seems like it's next level. 570 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,100 Like, oh man, this is such a huge decision in sports but 571 00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:17,200 that's because I haven't been around as many things is this as 572 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,300 big a deal. As I think it is, it's a huge 573 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:22,600 deal. And I think you know going back 574 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,400 and I mean I've been part in one from one way or another of the 575 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,800 last three coaching searches in terms of covering them you know 576 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,400 the first the first one we weren't even sure if there was a 577 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,100 coaching search going on the athletic. 578 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,600 Aunt and the administration were kind of locked in like 579 00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:45,500 internecine Warfare. And what ended up happening was 580 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:49,300 they just ended up retaining. Mike Davis for reasons. 581 00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,200 I think that didn't have a lot to do with basketball. 582 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:57,900 Certainly, the one in 06 was a big deal and that one, you know, 583 00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:02,000 probably should have been the big one that that really reset 584 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,700 the direction of IU basketball. But again, you know, that one, 585 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:08,300 we found out later. Was interfered with, by the 586 00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:10,400 president of the University, right? 587 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,300 You know, who, you know, instead of taking the athletic 588 00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:15,800 directors, decision decided to intervene. 589 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,000 And that was how we got K Samson, and then the third one 590 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,100 was, you know, it was what, produced, Tom crane, but it was 591 00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:26,200 hardly a normal search. And at that point, it was like, 592 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,700 I guess we'll just take, whoever has a decently good resume and 593 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:33,800 is still willing to come here and fix things. 594 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,500 This is really, I think the first Hiring process that we've 595 00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:41,300 seen at IU. That as I've been under duress, 596 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,400 we're all of the major players seem to be in place where you 597 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,200 don't have a meddlesome president. 598 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,900 Really since 1971, you know, when they hired bob Knight, you 599 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,700 know, that that process worked pretty much the way that it was 600 00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,000 supposed to. I feel like there's an 601 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,200 opportunity for IU to be able to do that here as well. 602 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,000 And so it's the this is huge. Like this, you know if we've 603 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,700 talked a lot about is Indiana, still amazed. 604 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:11,100 National name. Is it still a top-10 program? 605 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:13,200 Could it be a top-five program? I think the answer to all of 606 00:32:13,208 --> 00:32:15,400 those things is yes and I've been, I've been arguing for a 607 00:32:15,408 --> 00:32:17,800 while. It's like, you know, even going 608 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,000 back to the last six or seven years of the bob Knight era. 609 00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:26,600 You know, you had a Hall of Fame coach a legendary coach who, you 610 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,000 know, for a variety of reasons was not as effective during that 611 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,200 time period, as he should have been. 612 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,700 And from that point forward, you've had just a series of 613 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,000 people in the position that for whatever various reasons there 614 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,300 were, and then they varied from person to person. 615 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:47,800 We're able to keep, I you up at the levels that it can be at. 616 00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:49,800 Now, I guess, we'll see with this. 617 00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:53,000 If my hypothesis is correct that the program is fine. 618 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,900 The program's got the resources, the program's got the recruiting 619 00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:59,300 footprint, all of the things that make, you know, basketball 620 00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:01,600 programs, great. And it's just the matter of 621 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,300 having the right person in this coach, you know, this is, this 622 00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:06,600 is the one that's going to decide. 623 00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:09,800 To a large degree. So they really gotta, you know, 624 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,500 glasses really got to do his homework. 625 00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:13,000 It's going to be interesting watching. 626 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,600 I think the other thing to keep in mind with this Sam is because 627 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,000 this is the first kind of, you know, a not under duress 628 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,400 coaching search that we've had since the early 70s. 629 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,900 I do worry about, you know, factions within the donor base 630 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:34,300 or the trustee base or the fan base, you know, looking at this 631 00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:37,600 and saying this is our time like we need to get Our guys kind of 632 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,400 Game of Thrones like, right, we gotta get our guy on the throne 633 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,500 here, you know, we're already seeing that playing out a little 634 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:48,500 bit, my hope, is that what we're seeing in the media? 635 00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:50,600 And I'm talking with the local media here, more than anything 636 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:56,100 else isn't going to bleed over into the actual process of who 637 00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:57,700 makes the decision. I thought it was very 638 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,800 interesting that Fred glass not only said, you know, I'm not 639 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,200 forming a search committee, but also said, you know, I'm not 640 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,200 going to Source this out to an external committee. 641 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,500 I'm going to do So a myself, right? 642 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:11,600 I actually look at that as a good thing because I think the 643 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,400 more people you get involved in this process. 644 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,400 The the more chances there are that something's going to go 645 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,300 wrong and you're going to have you. 646 00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:25,100 No problems with people trying to exert influence this or that 647 00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,800 like I think having having a single inflection point with 648 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,199 this. As long as you trust the person 649 00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:32,300 that's making the higher I think is a good thing and I you know I 650 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,400 think at this point I think glass has earned at least some 651 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,100 degree. Free of latitude with this, you 652 00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:42,500 know, everybody was concerned about how he was going to deal 653 00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:45,300 with the Korean situation, in the basketball situation, 654 00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:47,400 leading into this offseason and have to say. 655 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,300 I mean, not just in the fact that he made a move, but in the 656 00:34:50,300 --> 00:34:53,500 statements that he made in the, in the post firing press 657 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,300 conference, I was pretty impressed with the direction 658 00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:58,200 that he wanted to take things. So I'm on board with where this 659 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,000 is going at this point. It feels like there's a single 660 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,200 voice and that's that's what I like. 661 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,000 And that's that's just discontinuity because whoever 662 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,100 the Indiana basketball Well coach is will have everything 663 00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:11,900 Tom crean had, which is everything, maybe you have 664 00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:14,500 thoroughly everything, you have every resource. 665 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:18,900 If you want to bring your team to a Ravens game for reasons 666 00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:22,600 that I still don't understand. You can do it if you want to go 667 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,400 to New York, just because you can do it. 668 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,100 If you want to practice all the way up until like 75 minutes 669 00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:34,200 before a home, women's basketball game at Assembly 670 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,200 Hall, when you have cook Hall down the hall, All literally you 671 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,600 can do it because you're allowed to do whatever you want to win. 672 00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:45,500 12 over the next coach is, will have that power. 673 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,900 There's, there's no excuses. You should, you should be able 674 00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:52,400 to make Indiana basketball pretty, darn good. 675 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,900 And that's the fun of it. All it is, it's fun. 676 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:57,500 And, you know, I think it's a really attractive job for a lot 677 00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,200 of people. And I think the, you know, the, 678 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,800 the idea that IU basketball is a fallen star at this point. 679 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,100 I think this is the thing that Hated me. 680 00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,100 The most about the media coverage over the last few days. 681 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:14,400 Is this idea that I, you was an average basketball program? 682 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,100 And Tom crean was like, holding it up, like like Atlas, you 683 00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:20,600 know, like, you know, right. Look at this burden that I'm 684 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,700 having to carry and only only the basketball Genius of this 685 00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:26,700 man is able to keep it afloat, and I'm just like, I think 686 00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:30,200 that's backwards. Let's do it that completely, I 687 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,300 mean, right? Well, it's but, I mean, I almost 688 00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:36,800 feel and I felt this way with Mike Davis, that, you know, Oh, 689 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,700 there's certain functional elements of being the basketball 690 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:41,700 coach at a program of this caliber that. 691 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,900 You, if you don't have them, it makes the job much harder. 692 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:48,300 And I always felt like whether it was recruiting or whether it 693 00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:52,600 was, you know, style of play, or whether it was, you know, just 694 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,700 kind of the way that he interfaced with the media, 695 00:36:55,700 --> 00:36:59,300 creating almost always made this job harder than it needed to be 696 00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:01,800 given the resource advantages that he had. 697 00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:05,500 Yes, and multiple ways. I mean, you talk about just the 698 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:08,300 way he interacted with them. I mean for somebody who cared as 699 00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:12,800 much of us is on him as he did. Rightfully, I mean, I would too, 700 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,300 you know, you have things that he handles and you go. 701 00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:17,100 Why, why did you do that to yourself? 702 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,100 You know, why didn't you just be a little cheerier a little 703 00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:21,800 nicer? Look, whatever. 704 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:26,000 So, I want to say you did himself, and that's again, it's 705 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,700 different conversation, but you have everything you need. 706 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:30,600 Again, you have everything you need to succeed here. 707 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,700 Nobody's holding anybody down. It's it's primed for success. 708 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:39,700 For whoever this is Well, it'll be an interesting process and we 709 00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:43,200 will look forward to catching you on Twitter and on the 710 00:37:43,207 --> 00:37:47,000 Hoosier at what is it? Indiana dot rivals.com. 711 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,700 Or is it just the Hoosier? Yeah, that sounds right. 712 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,800 You can do either that's the beauty of the internet. 713 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,000 These days you can enter two different things and it'll come 714 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,800 up the same way. It's fantastic. 715 00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,900 I appreciate you coming on man. Always always a pleasure to chat 716 00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:02,000 with you and good luck moving forward. 717 00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:04,400 Now this is fun. It all had fun with us. 718 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,300 Absolutely Sam by size of Darkness here on Crimson cast, 719 00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:07,700 folks.