1 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,600 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:20,720 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,800 GAIL and Clavio Scott Caulfield joining you. 4 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,880 It is Friday, January 17th, game day morning for Indiana men's 5 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,800 basketballs. They travel this evening to Ohio 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,240 State, take on the Buckeyes. What? 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,200 V Ohio, Sorry. No, I not not doing that with 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:38,880 these people at this point. Sorry. 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,400 You. Yeah. 10 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:42,400 Let's restart. I hate that I did that. 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:43,240 Newton. Let's start. 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:44,160 Over. Nope, Nope. 13 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,240 We can't restart. We gotta just keep going 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,560 through. This is what happens when you 15 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:48,960 record on video. So. 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,640 But no, here we are, Indiana at 13 and five and four and three 17 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,360 on the season, the conference. And certainly, Scott, the last 18 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:03,360 time we talked, which was Sunday, we were very curious to 19 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,040 see what was going to be happening with Indiana this 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,040 week. And boy, did we find some stuff 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:12,360 out on Tuesday night as Indiana loses by 25 points at home to 22 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,480 Illinois in a game that wasn't that close. 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,200 So we're going to talk about that. 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,400 I was there, you were not, and we're gonna talk about the stuff 25 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,000 that's happened since then is. Is that me winning? 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,400 Yeah, I mean, someone made a good choice about not going to 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,680 that game. I I went to the Pacers. 28 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,240 Game it was, it was a little bit better, but. 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,440 For many reasons, I wish I had also not gone to that game. 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,320 But anyway, that's another story. 31 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,200 So we're talking about that. But first, just a reminder we're 32 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,880 brought to you by Home Field Apparel, your place to go for 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,760 the finest in college fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest 34 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:52,040 designs, and a continued rolling out of new things that are worth 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,200 purchasing. Go to the home field front and 36 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:01,800 go type in that code Home 23. Get 15% off your first order and 37 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,400 let them know that we sent you. Go follow their social media as 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,480 well. They do an awesome job with 39 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,760 that. I, I got an e-mail from the IU 40 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,039 bookstore that's like, we're bringing the bison back. 41 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:12,280 I'm like, oh, you guys stepping on home fields turf and I look 42 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,400 at the. Top and it's like it's home 43 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:18,240 field stuff that's right go through their website, use the 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,120 promo code, but it's like they are they're they you know, no 45 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,680 one can do the bison like they can home field bringing the 46 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,640 bison to the union the union just you're just putting it out 47 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,480 there. Also a reminder, we're on 48 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,520 Substack Crimson cast dot hubstack.com. 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,400 It's free to sign up, get podcast delivered right to your 50 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,240 inbox and occasionally we have AVIP video. 51 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,280 I was going to record one last night about this basketball 52 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,280 situation. I actually recorded a couple. 53 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:45,440 I didn't like how either of them came across and so I didn't 54 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,560 release them. So VI PS know in spirit, I put 55 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,040 out AVIP episode, but I didn't actually, I'm sure that's going 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,120 to resonate very well with you. But we'll have a little 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,280 something that's attached to this one. 58 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,240 So after you're done watching or listening to the end when if 59 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,560 you're a subscriber, which you can do for a nominal fee, $5.00 60 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,560 a month, $50 a year, help support the podcast. 61 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,320 Well, a little extra message for you here at the end, so just 62 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,560 Scroll down in your e-mail and you'll find that there you can 63 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,760 also find all of the Crimson Cast Podcast as well as the rest 64 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,280 of the Back Home Network podcast on the Back Home Network YouTube 65 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,640 channel. Please subscribe. 66 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,000 We hit a big mark this week, Scott. 67 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,240 We are over 7000 subscribers now on the Back Home Network YouTube 68 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,400 channel and we are so thrilled to have all you folks watching 69 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,200 along with this it it really is great to have you in the 70 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,280 audience. So we're looking forward to 71 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,720 continuing to get those numbers up, continuing to do more, more 72 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 video based items and we'll. For me, Google, am I an 73 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:41,920 influencer? You're not. 74 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,200 No. Sorry. 75 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,560 I I, I'm sorry, Scott. Someday. 76 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,280 Someday. You know you. 77 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,680 Start doing the dancing the you do. 78 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,760 Yeah, get the whole family involved like that definitely 79 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,360 seems like I'm. I'm actually shocked you guys 80 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,320 don't do like choreographed family dances, get waffles 81 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,040 involved, you know, when you're doing, you know, like wine 82 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,640 trivia night or we did. Trivia night last night, there 83 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,000 was no dancing, but we did, we, we did pretty well. 84 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,520 Our, our, our four, the four young boys of the neighborhood 85 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,000 all had a team. The, the, they named themselves 86 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,000 the Quizzlers. And it was great because like, 87 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,880 they were just, you know, missing stuff left and right. 88 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,839 And then one of the questions was like, you know, this, this, 89 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,760 you know, James Bonderman or whatever, like is better known 90 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,960 by his YouTube name. They're all like, it's like Mr. 91 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:28,400 Beast. It's like they just, they're 92 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,080 like, ah, we know when we know when we know it. 93 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,200 They ran up there. It's amazing. 94 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,440 Anyway, let's go ahead and dive into things. 95 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,440 Indiana losing 94 to 69 to Illinois on Tuesday. 96 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,640 And boy, it really wasn't even that close. 97 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:48,960 Indiana allows 60 points at home in the first half on route to, I 98 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,200 think what was the the widest margin of victory that they'd 99 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,720 had in regulation of the assembly hole or maybe the most 100 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,480 points an opponent had scored an assembly hole. 101 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,760 We were in the stands trying to figure out like, what is the 102 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,160 record for most points scored against IU in Assembly hole at 103 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,160 which I I had honestly forgotten, you know, what that 104 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,800 might have been. And, you know, of course I think 105 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,440 Iowa was involved somehow. But yeah, it's it was bad. 106 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,520 And I think what was worse about it for Indiana in this game was 107 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:25,320 not just the loss, but how completely disconnected Indiana 108 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,760 as a basketball team looked from any level of competitiveness. 109 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,840 And, you know, this was an Illinois team that had just lost 110 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:37,640 at home to the same you USC team that Indiana beat at home last 111 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:38,680 week. And a lot of people looked at 112 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,160 that and said, wow, Indiana might actually be really good. 113 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,000 They've won five games in a row. And they beat this USC team that 114 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,360 was able to go into champagne and beat a a top 15 Illinois 115 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,440 team. Surely that's a sign that 116 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,400 Indiana's actually of of quality as an opponent. 117 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,520 And that was proven to be not true, both in the Iowa game that 118 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,000 happened over the weekend and also this one. 119 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,040 Scott, I, you know, there's really not that much to break 120 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,120 down during, you know, about the game itself. 121 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,320 It was it was one of those games where Illinois did whatever they 122 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,160 wanted offensively. Didn't really, it wasn't even a 123 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,560 situation where there was something outlandish going on. 124 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,720 Like, you know, Illinois hitting like 20 threes and 1/2 or 125 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,320 something like that. Like it was just an old 126 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,520 fashioned butt kicking by the Illini. 127 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,160 And, you know, Indiana showed a little bit of fight in the 128 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,520 second-half. Mike Petrie, a long time Crimson 129 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,360 Cast contributor, noted over text that that was almost 130 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,000 insulting to see as an IU fan. That's like, well, now coming 131 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,320 out of halftime down 30, now you're going to show some fight. 132 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,680 But it was just, it was an unfortunate set of circumstances 133 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,040 all the way around. And it ended ugly with Omar Balo 134 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,600 getting into a fracas. And you know, the, IT was just 135 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,160 one of those things where kind of everything went wrong and you 136 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,720 got to talk about the booze. You got booze coming down from 137 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,080 the stands as the team's coming off the floor. 138 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,680 You got there was a Fire Mike Woodson chant which I didn't 139 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,600 hear, but I take on on faith that that was indeed what 140 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,040 occurred 'cause several people noted it. 141 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,080 And it was just one of those ugly scenes. 142 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,240 Not as ugly as it could have been, but still pretty ugly. 143 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,800 I think the crowd was more shell shocked for most of the first 144 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,880 half than angry. And then the most people started 145 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,840 drifting out, you know, starting at halftime and and leading into 146 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,480 about the 8 minute mark in the second-half during that period. 147 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:35,440 So it is it the end of the season from a well, there are 148 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,720 still games to be played and there's still a chance to do 149 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,360 something in the tournament. Of course not. 150 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,040 There's still games to be played. 151 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,280 Indiana still technically above 500, but that felt like an 152 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,560 absolute turning point in the narrative of this season and the 153 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,280 way that the relationship between IU basketball and its 154 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,720 fans, for this season at least, was going to play out. 155 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,760 I think you you hit a lot of stuff right on the head. 156 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,440 I was at the Pacers game and I was going to come home and watch 157 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,640 the IU Illinois game. And then I just I saw a 158 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,240 notification. I should have just swiped it, 159 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,160 but it just caught my eye. It's like Indiana fans leaving 160 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,840 at halftime, fans chanting Boo woods. 161 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,720 So I'm like, what what is going on? 162 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,280 Like what I text you? I'm like, what is going like I 163 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,000 just want to know what what the hell is happening? 164 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,280 And then like I couldn't I couldn't turn away from kind of 165 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,040 digging into it. You you kind of mentioned what 166 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,440 it was like there. You know, here's here's 167 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,760 everything you laid out true. Here's what I've been thinking 168 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,400 about that I haven't really heard talked about is that, you 169 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,400 know, you you can discuss whether you should, you know, 170 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,559 Boo players or not. You can discuss whether people 171 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,480 should be chanting this or not. But here's the thing. 172 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,120 It's like it happened. And once that Rubicon has 173 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,280 passed, so to speak, you don't come back from that or you have 174 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,240 to really change something. You know, this is something I've 175 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,240 talked about for years and this has been a problem with IU 176 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,960 basketball for years, is you do the status quo or you do 177 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,000 slightly worse than expectations. 178 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,960 The idea of just coming back and then just meeting expectations 179 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,280 isn't enough. You then have to go above 180 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,320 expectations at some point. If you're AC student and you get 181 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,760 AD minus, AD minus, AD minus, you can't just get AC and then 182 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,200 say hey, we're all good. It's like, no, you need to get 183 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,720 an A+. You IU football was a prime 184 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,000 example of that in all the respects for years. 185 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,000 They were just barely trying to get by and then not meet the 186 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,160 expectations. And but you have to do something 187 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,200 out of the ordinary to really wake people up. 188 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,080 They did that this year. Like that was way out of the 189 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,440 ordinary. That was not just a six win 190 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:32,720 season. That was insane. 191 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,680 What I'm concerned about Galen, is this is, you know, you're on 192 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:43,360 January 17th, you have a lot of home games left. 193 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,360 And once you've kind of broken this seal, it doesn't get put 194 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:48,840 back. And you can talk about whether 195 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,600 it's right, whether it's wrong, but it's like it's it's 196 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,880 happening. And even if you just you know, 197 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,200 you lose at Ohio State, you win at Northwestern, that's not good 198 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:59,720 enough. Like that's not good enough for 199 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,840 people to not be pissed. And I will also say this, like, 200 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,280 I mean, unfortunately, a lot of this anger and angst is based on 201 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,960 years and years of not meeting expectations. 202 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,120 That goes before Woodson, that goes before Archie. 203 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,480 I mean, there's there's a lot of pent up baggage just being 204 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,720 pushed up here. That has to be like dealt with. 205 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,240 And you can't just say, hey, we want it Northwestern, like we're 206 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:22,920 all good. Let's let's bring it back and 207 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,640 let's cheer for the team like did. 208 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,080 This is what I'm most concerned about is this could degenerate 209 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,480 to a point where we look back at the crowd reaction in this game 210 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,280 and be like, man, that was nice when we were just chanting and 211 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,080 booing. You know, there's still, as I 212 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:44,600 view it, 123-4566 home games. And some of them, I mean, you, 213 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,280 you play at Purdue, at Wisconsin and you're home to Michigan, at 214 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,440 Michigan State, home to UCLA. You could be on A5 game losing 215 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,440 streak, four of them being ass kickings going into that UCLA 216 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,760 game. How are the fans going to be 217 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:58,960 there? And that that's what I'm most 218 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,320 concerned about is everybody has a right to be angry or angsty. 219 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,720 I should say I'll change my word angsty, but I'm just worried 220 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,120 that if, and again, I'm not calling for anything, but like 221 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,080 if just nothing is done, if just we just continue to do the same 222 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,640 thing, this is going to degenerate and get very, very 223 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:18,400 ugly. And it's funny. 224 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,720 Then I'll stop talking. Like we talked about this at the 225 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,560 end of the Archie era, like when they started booing the team, 226 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,000 but that wasn't Conseco or Banker's life. 227 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,160 Like that was the end of the season. 228 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,760 It's like, man, this could get ugly for the last two games. 229 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,400 This could get really ugly for like 2 1/2 months with six or 230 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,120 seven different games. I'm not. 231 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,800 There's only nothing you can do. But it's like you can't just do 232 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,240 nothing. And I don't think you know, my, 233 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,880 it's like you can't just go and like, beat Northwestern. 234 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,960 Like, all right, well, we've fixed everything. 235 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,240 Like you, you have crossed a level where you have to do 236 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,320 something really out of the ordinary. 237 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,360 And I'm just not sure this team's able to do it. 238 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,200 I don't know what the answers are. 239 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,560 And that's what I'm most concerned about. 240 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:00,720 Is this just getting really kind of ugly and frustrating for 2 241 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,280 1/2 months? No, you're right. 242 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,600 And it's a weird set up. And I think you hit a bunch of 243 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,040 interesting points. Indiana's in some ways lucky 244 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,600 that four out of their next 5 games are on the road. 245 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,760 Yes. And you're, you're at Ohio State 246 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,640 tonight if you're listening to this on Friday, you're at 247 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,920 Northwestern on Wednesday. You've got Maryland in a noon 248 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,640 home game. That's on a Sunday. 249 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,000 That's going to be a, a, a, a great one that's really set up 250 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,280 to be positive. And you got to go to, you got to 251 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,560 go to Purdue the following Friday, and then you've got to 252 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:36,680 go to Wisconsin, which of course is where Indiana plays really 253 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,200 well. Historically, one of the many 254 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,440 places now that we've added to the list of that we play well. 255 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,760 Yeah. And and then you're back and 256 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,600 you've got, you know, favorite son Dusty May, who's coaching 257 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,320 Michigan, bringing the Wolverines into Bloomington on a 258 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,040 Saturday. It's it doesn't set up well for 259 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,120 this particular circumstance. And I think you bring up 260 00:12:54,560 --> 00:13:00,600 probably the key point, which is that it's one thing for this 261 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,920 kind of thing to occur. And we've unfortunately been 262 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,840 here on a variety of occasions. I mean, I'll go back to Davis's 263 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,600 last year. People forget, many of you are 264 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,840 too young to even remember that. But you remember, you know, 265 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,480 they, they end up they lose that game to Connecticut. 266 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,120 They go on the road, they get destroyed by Wisconsin. 267 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,480 They come back and you have that infamous Iowa game at home where 268 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,520 Davis doesn't show up to work. You know, he's allegedly I'll 269 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,600 and and fortunately Davis didn't coach another game in Assembly 270 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,280 Hall under a cloud because it was right after that Penn State 271 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,280 game that happened in the middle of the week that they had the 272 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,240 press conference saying that he was going to be leaving his 273 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,440 position at the end of the year. You know, Crean's last year, it 274 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,720 that that fell well apart. Like you had that, that the, 275 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,160 the, what was it? The, the Josh Newkirk three 276 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,400 overtime like layup game against Penn State. 277 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,960 And then they went on a run where they lost their next 5, 278 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,640 including home games against Purdue and Michigan. 279 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,360 And you could just feel like things were coming to a rapid 280 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,600 close there. You had a similar thing with the 281 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,520 Archie thing. And the Archie thing was weird 282 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,640 'cause you're, you know, you're, you're still in COVID 283 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,080 restrictions and I think everybody's a little bit awkward 284 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,920 about things. But as you mentioned, that 285 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:19,040 situation at Banker's Life Fieldhouse was was not good and 286 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,600 and IU was like, we got to take action. 287 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,320 This one is like specific or or especially bothersome for a 288 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,560 couple of reasons. One, it's happened earlier than 289 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,240 any of those. Sorry about that, like earlier 290 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,040 than any of those. Absolutely it. 291 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,720 And, you know, I think the, the best case scenario for IU from a 292 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:40,680 program perspective or from a an athletic department perspective 293 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,840 was that IU was going to hold it together, get through January, 294 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,120 remain competitive and then do their normal fall apart in 295 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,840 February thing. And then there would be a 296 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,080 natural finish maybe if things hadn't worked out. 297 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,600 And I think the five game-winning streak kind of gave 298 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,960 everybody hope that maybe things would be all right for a little 299 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,440 bit, But 225 point losses in a row. 300 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,920 And you, it's not just that, as you mentioned, it's the backdrop 301 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,920 of last year and the not just the disappointment, but the 302 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,120 adversarial relationship that got created. 303 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,400 And I'm not saying one side or the other was right or wrong, 304 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,480 but the fans in Woodson, there was clearly a, a break there. 305 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,880 And for all but the most die hard fans or the people who feel 306 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,680 like, you know, Indiana's at fault all the time for 307 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,080 everything as opposed to the coaches, people were very much 308 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,080 in a well, you'll have to show me that you can do XY or Z 309 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,760 approach with Woodson. And what we've seen now is like 310 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,000 Indiana's played five top 50 Ken Palm opponents. 311 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,560 Sorry, they've say played six of them. 312 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,440 They've lost five of those games and the only one that they won 313 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,160 was the game versus Penn State. So you've got a situation now 314 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,600 where Indiana's demonstrated that they're not competitive 315 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,840 against better competition and. We have something better 316 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,080 competition ahead. We have, it was essentially, 317 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,200 yes. And you've also got the 318 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,360 unfortunate scenario where there really is not much of an 319 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,400 emotional connection between the fan base and the coach, between 320 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,520 the fan base and the team. And it's a product of, well, 321 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,680 there's not a lot of recruiting that's gone on here. 322 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,680 It's a bunch of pieces that got brought in from elsewhere. 323 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,800 And I think a lot of IU fans view that as being a huge part 324 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,040 of the problem. And again, they look back at 325 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,160 Woodson and the lack of recruiting that's come out of 326 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,720 the coaching staff, particularly at the guard position over the 327 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,600 last few years. And they say, well, this is the 328 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,480 core of the issue. And so I really, you know, I, I 329 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,160 know this like I know IU athletics, any athletic 330 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,000 department, not just IU, but certainly IU. 331 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,800 It's one thing for coaches to get yelled at or for people to 332 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,320 to say awful things on social media. 333 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,080 I'm not, I'm not condoning it, but it happens and I've engaged 334 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,280 in it myself in the past and I regret doing that. 335 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,440 It's another when it starts to spill over onto players and I 336 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,520 know that you that's one of the last things you want to see as 337 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,720 an athletic department. You don't ever want to see your 338 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,319 fans pitting off against your players or media members going 339 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,680 after players, players getting into the fray and and punching 340 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,560 back in social media. We saw that a little bit this 341 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,000 week. This was a really dumb week from 342 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,440 a social media perspective when it came to IU basketball. 343 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,080 We've had many dumb weeks. This was maybe the dumbest so 344 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,920 far. And you can, you can point 345 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,920 fingers and you can blame people for things, but at the end of 346 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,680 it, it's a situation that has to be addressed. 347 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,920 And I guess what concerns me is that I don't know what happens 348 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,840 here. Like, I, I don't know that 349 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,200 there's the political will within the athletic department 350 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,760 or the university to fire Mike Woodson. 351 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,320 And when I say political will, what I mean by that is not like 352 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,920 politics like Republican versus Democrat, but like hiring a the 353 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,440 men's basketball coach in Indiana is probably the most 354 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,640 important and fraught process that you go through as an 355 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,560 administrator. There's a lot of people with a 356 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,960 lot of skin in the game. We know that Mike Woodson has a 357 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,880 lot of people who view him as part of the the IU basketball 358 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,680 family because of having played here. 359 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,280 We know there's a lot of of people that, you know, are 360 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,200 trying to protect Mike Woodson from the the circumstances in 361 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,240 the situation. We also know though, that 362 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,520 there's a lot of basketball left to be played this season. 363 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,200 You know you've got 2 full months of games from this point 364 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,760 forward. You've got, as you mentioned, 365 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,840 six of those games at home. You've got an increasingly toxic 366 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,760 situation. You also have a coach who 367 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,440 whether or not he should be thinking this way, this does not 368 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,360 appear to be a coach that is inclined to think that he's 369 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,160 doing anything so wrong that it should result in him resigning 370 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,360 from his role. You know, and, and I'm not 371 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,360 again, not saying he should feel that way, but one of the things 372 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,200 that sometimes you'll see, and we actually saw it with Mike 373 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:08,320 Davis in 2006, was the coach saying, all right, I'm going to 374 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,440 step away from this because it's not working. 375 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,320 I don't sense that with Woodson. I didn't sense that in the post 376 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,560 game comments. We've seen very little follow up 377 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,160 from that Illinois game in terms of of how that got addressed. 378 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,760 And it just feels like all of these pieces have come together 379 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,200 and could lead to a very, very ugly couple of months because 380 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,560 fans at this point feel disregarded. 381 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,600 You know, fans at this point feel like the basketball program 382 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,880 that they shell out huge amounts of money to go see and to 383 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,000 travel, you know, as it basically been allowed to to 384 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,560 operate as the, you know, without a lot of oversight and 385 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,400 without a lot of of particular care. 386 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,880 Like, OK, it's Mike Woodson's ship. 387 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,240 He can steer it. And it's clearly been steered in 388 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,560 a direction that isn't leading to a lot of success. 389 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,080 And so you have this pent up reservoir of a lot of really 390 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,000 angry people who are increasingly getting angrier 391 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,280 because what they're seeing that, you know, going out on the 392 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,600 floor regularly looks inadequate for what they were promised, 393 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,920 especially with this season. And so I don't, I, I'm really 394 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,880 disturbed by where this could end up because it's just going 395 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,680 to make everybody look bad. And I don't see at this stage, a 396 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,680 particularly easy resolution playing out for anybody. 397 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,080 And that's a real shame. Yeah. 398 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,280 That's true. I mean, a couple of things. 399 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,200 You know it for those on the outside, of which I'm assuming 400 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,800 anybody listening to this is a big IU fan, but you know, you're 401 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,080 talking to somebody who's on the outside. 402 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,560 It's like you, you have to put into context what happened at 403 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,320 last year's Senior Day. Like, that was just for a lot of 404 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,120 people, that was jarring because we're a program that obviously 405 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:45,520 had, you know, had ties with Bob Knight. 406 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,400 That was not the best exit. And that that created some 407 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,080 tensions within the IU fanbase. The idea of bringing a former 408 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,080 player back was always kind of discussed. 409 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,440 And should we do it? And so this is obviously the 410 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,200 first time we had done it. And then just within, you know, 411 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,280 36 months, that same person is basically like making a, you 412 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,520 know, maginal line. Like here's the line of where 413 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,680 fans are and aren't versus just I love everybody. 414 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,480 You know, you have the other thing that I think is also 415 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,760 concerning for me, I don't know if I'm not sure if the Maginot 416 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,280 line is the metaphor there. Let's keep going. 417 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,480 OK? I want, I'm actually I'm, I'm 418 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,120 looking forward to our listeners breaking that one down from a 419 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,720 psychological perspective anyway. 420 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:28,640 Go ahead. It's awful. 421 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,080 I was actually a history major at IU, so maybe it's not showing 422 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,520 my my great major. I'm just, I'm just the line. 423 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,240 It's a dividing line the the dividing line. 424 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,400 Sorry, go ahead. All I know is that we have true 425 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,000 Crimson cast fans and we don't and those who are against the 426 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,440 national line know the the other thing that you know, this is 427 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,080 where I I've kind of been saying this also, you know, where 428 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,240 you're in a tough spot if you're Woodson or just the way this 429 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,560 team has been run is, you know, outside. 430 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,480 Even before last night, I was looking ahead like, I don't I 431 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,200 don't know what to look forward to because this team has been, 432 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,080 you know, at up until the last two days, like still kind of 433 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,720 relatively disappointing. Hadn't shown well in Atlantis. 434 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,280 It's like the the team doesn't recruit. 435 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,920 Like there's not there's not an effort to recruit the Midwest, 436 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,720 Indiana or kind of recruit at all. 437 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,520 And as I've said before, last two years they've done pretty 438 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,760 well in the transfer portal. So the idea of like going to the 439 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,080 next season, like we're just going to do better. 440 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:25,520 Like, I don't know if there is better. 441 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,320 Like, I don't know what the solution would have been this 442 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,040 offseason anyway. This is always a problem. 443 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,200 You know, when in in the pros, you can be like, well, we'll 444 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,440 just tank and get better draft picks. 445 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,280 Like there is no option here. But yeah, I mean, and and this 446 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,600 is where I think you hit it perfectly. 447 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,760 Like fans and I will put myself in there. 448 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,200 We, we feel disregarded because it's kind of like there's this, 449 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,960 this discussion of like, you guys have to follow us like 450 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,760 blind faith and. Yeah, no, I. 451 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,880 And and and the idea of like. I think you're hold on time. 452 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,800 I think you're, and this is part of the problem is there was a 453 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,720 real attitude. Some of it came out directly. 454 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,480 A lot of it was indirect. That's like, I know what I'm 455 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,640 doing and other people don't. And this is how this team's 456 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,400 going to be built and this is how it's going to work. 457 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,120 And whether it's, whether it's the overt statements, whether 458 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,080 it's just the demonstration of, well, we're not going to bother. 459 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:21,640 I mean, I, I, I don't think that they're not putting effort into 460 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,200 recruiting is accurate. They're not putting enough 461 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,600 effort into recruiting. They're not putting enough. 462 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,440 Like it's, it's clearly not working. 463 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,000 It's clearly not connecting and it, this was clearly a bad 464 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,640 approach from a team building perspective. 465 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,280 And I think what's frustrating for a lot of IU fans is they 466 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,680 knew that ahead of time, they, they, they could see that was 467 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,720 going to be a problem there. There was people all throughout 468 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,400 the summer who were like, I'm not entirely certain that you 469 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,280 can go in full transfer portal and actually put together a 470 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,040 competitive team. And you have people, especially 471 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:06,320 on social media who went out of their way to attack those people 472 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,200 who were expressing questions like, well, you people don't 473 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,760 know ball. You people don't know what 474 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,200 you're talking about, that you know, the coaching staff knows 475 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,400 what they're doing. You 3 pointers aren't that 476 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,120 important. Like just whole list of things 477 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:18,720 where it's like, am I being gaslit? 478 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,120 Like what the hell? What is this? 479 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,560 Like what? Like why? 480 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,280 Why is it that a reasonably intelligent group of people when 481 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,960 they highlight things that are that are going wrong with the 482 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,320 program? And when you can point to 483 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,200 examples like Connecticut, like Auburn, like Louisville this 484 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:42,880 year, like special case, But it's like whether it's the the 485 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,720 program building process that we've seen out of UConn where 486 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,840 they've mixed really intelligently recruits and 487 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,800 transfer portal, You know, whether it's Auburn and, and 488 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,280 what they've done, whether it's Louisville going out and like 489 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,840 demonstrating that you don't need 4 years to get all of your 490 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480 people in that you can put together a pretty decent team if 491 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,200 you have a good plan. And then you go back to the 492 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,560 offense and all of the talk that we heard about all things are 493 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,360 going to change. Things are different this or 494 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:06,520 that. You go back and you look at the 495 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,760 numbers and we talked about this last time, Scott, Indiana's back 496 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,720 to 331st in the country and three-point attempt ratio, which 497 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,240 is, you know. Terrible Four in the last two 498 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,920 games each. They're shooting worse from 499 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,080 three percentage wise this year than last year that you know, 500 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,560 there's just there's so many little things statistically 501 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,920 where it's like this is essentially a slightly better 502 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,440 carbon copy of last year. You're, you're about 30 points 503 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,800 better in both offense and defense and Kenpom, but you're 504 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,280 still essentially the 60th placed team in the country, not 505 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,280 the 30th place team, which to me was the bare minimum of 506 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,840 expectations. And so, you know, you take all 507 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,120 of that and you combine it with what has been just kind of a, 508 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:53,120 you know, a, a standoffish approach that's grown between 509 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,280 the coach and the fan base and the program and the fan base. 510 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,160 I mean I I know it's one thing, but like blowing off Fisher for 511 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,680 the post game, it's like dude, just go talk to Fisher. 512 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,280 Like Fisher's not going to hit, ask hard hitting questions. 513 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,800 Like he's just going to say, man, tough game and you can say 514 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:07,920 what you want and then you're done. 515 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,720 Like it's even just little things like that, that for me, I 516 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,920 know it's one tiny little thing. It's like that pisses me off. 517 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,720 It just does. It's like, do your job. 518 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,840 Like you lost, you got your butt kicked. 519 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,840 Like as coach, part of your job is to answer questions and part 520 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,520 of it is to answer them. To Don Fisher, who's by the way, 521 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,200 like an institution, he's been there 50 years. 522 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,880 He's going to ask you 2 very softball questions. 523 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,720 You get over it and you move on. Like the fact that you can't 524 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,280 even do that after you lost. And it's like, that's a tough 525 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,800 night. That's your job. 526 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,480 Yeah, I mean, at the end of it all, I think the thing that 527 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,480 bothers a lot of people is it just doesn't feel like there's a 528 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,400 ton of accountability being taken by the coach. 529 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,280 Every time questions, legitimate questions get asked about why 530 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,640 the team underperforms in these games or why they play poorly 531 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,560 against worst teams, it's always, well, I got to get the 532 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,600 guys over the hump and that's it. 533 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,680 That's like the extent of what you'll get in terms of tangible 534 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,720 answers, which just makes it seem like, OK, I'm going to say 535 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,680 these nothing words that placate people, and then we're just 536 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,760 going to move on and OK, you can do that. 537 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,960 But then what ends up being the? Exemplar of your work is what 538 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,280 happens on the floor, right. Well, then it all just comes 539 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,160 down to wins and losses. Like that's the same thing. 540 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,920 And you spend all offseason kind of fighting everybody on all of 541 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,920 these things. Like, like you were saying that 542 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,920 it's like, OK, like then you then now there's no connection 543 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,320 to like the play. It just show me in Atlantis. 544 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,680 Yeah, like. And that's because you built 545 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,400 this system where you fighting everybody and it's like the only 546 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,760 thing that we can now discuss are the wins and losses. 547 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,840 And so we went to Atlantis and we got our ass kicked twice. 548 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,600 And it's like, now what do you want to say? 549 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,880 Like now, now, how is it not my fault? 550 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,760 And like, again, a win against Winthrop does not make up for 551 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,560 two of those beatings. And even the next week, you win 552 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,720 it, you know, Ohio State or you win it Northwestern. 553 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,880 Again, not good enough. Like you're at a point now you 554 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,160 want to turn this around, go in nine in a row. 555 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,040 That sounds crazy. Like yes, you need to do 556 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,680 something completely out of the norm. 557 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,920 Yeah, I mean, or that and that's that's not a fair some something 558 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,320 to ask of the team that we see on the court right now. 559 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,960 Yeah, no, I look, I'm that's that's essentially the answer. 560 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,440 I mean, we've we've talked about projections for this team and 561 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,480 when we talked about this over the weekend, it was really like, 562 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,960 well, you know, they'll probably be able to beat Washington, They 563 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,360 may be able to beat Northwestern. 564 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,880 And then you got a bunch of teams that just according to the 565 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,840 statistical profile, Indiana's going to struggle to beat. 566 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,280 And it's hard to argue that at this point. 567 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,560 And you know, the, the, the biggest red flag to me with that 568 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:55,200 Illinois game was just how little competitive fire the team 569 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,360 showed, how little they, the, the, the defense was, was very 570 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,800 bad. I mean, ever again, we focus on 571 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,720 the offense, but the defense continues to be disappointing. 572 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,560 And it just felt like Illinois had their way with whatever they 573 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,440 wanted in that game. And despite at the end of it not 574 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,760 having that great of a statistical profile, all things 575 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,800 considered, other than the fact that they just abused Indiana on 576 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,120 the offensive glass, it's 16 offensive rebounds in that game. 577 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:29,280 So I look at it and I say to myself, when we get past the 578 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,680 fights over who should be like, like where the program's going 579 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,480 and whether or not Indiana is like, is it the, is it the 580 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,120 program's fault? I keep coming back to this like, 581 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,360 every time a coach does badly at Indiana, there's a bunch of 582 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,960 people who for every reason point the finger at Indiana. 583 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,600 It must be Indiana's fault. And it must be the the program 584 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,600 must just not be a good program anymore. 585 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,880 And that's still happening now. And I still see like, you know, 586 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,800 I don't know why. I don't know what the defense 587 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,440 for Woodson is at this point. Like this is this is his team. 588 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,440 It's his players. He went out and handpicked the 589 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,400 players that are playing out there right now. 590 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,800 It's his system, which a lot of people have said this is not a 591 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,320 great system to run in college, but he's decided he's going to 592 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,480 run at least now in 2025. But that's what he's running. 593 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,000 This is him. And and you know, when you've 594 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,800 got the example again of Kurt Signetti coming in and making a 595 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,560 huge change in a short period of time, like everybody would have 596 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,360 said, well, IU as a program, that's not possible in football. 597 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,400 And yet you make the right hire, you give them a structure to do 598 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,360 things in and it ends up working out. 599 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,360 You mentioned Louisville and you know, and Louisville's had a a 600 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,680 little bit of an inconsistent season, but there's clearly 601 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,000 better than they were last year. They're on what, a A7 or 8 602 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,920 game-winning streak, 7 game-winning streak gave to 603 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,840 their last nine. They've they've beaten, they've 604 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,520 won on the road at Pitt, they've beat Clemson. 605 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,080 You know, I'll be that team had to start from scratch. 606 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,880 Almost always, almost always, it's the coach's fault when 607 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,840 things aren't going well because the coach has such an immense 608 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,720 amount of control over what's going on. 609 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,720 And you know that, that's where when I look at the this result, 610 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,280 the result against Iowa, the lack of fire, the lack of 611 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,960 effort, it's not just the system, It's not just the 612 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,240 players. There just doesn't appear to be 613 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,440 a real coherent sense of identity like that's, and that's 614 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,800 really what you have to have as a coach. 615 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,840 Like if you're going to build a program, if you're going to talk 616 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,360 about winning Big 10 titles and winning national titles, which 617 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,040 Woodson went out of his way to say on Hoosier hysteria, well, 618 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,320 that doesn't come from having good players. 619 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,440 It comes from having a great culture. 620 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:46,280 And I think if there's one big thing that I would point at and 621 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,800 say This is why the Woodson era is failing or has failed, I 622 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,800 mean, it maybe, maybe it's failed at this point for good. 623 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,720 It's his inability to build a culture that was able to survive 624 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,800 the the exit of Trace Jackson Davis because Trace Jackson 625 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,760 Davis, you know, seemed to have some kind, I don't know how much 626 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560 he was involved in it or whatever, but you can't look at 627 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,600 the results and the way that the team played in the first two 628 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,920 seasons. And they weren't great that 629 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,760 first season at Woodson was here, but they had a they had a 630 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,720 defensive identity. There was there. 631 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,600 There seemed to be some level of pride. 632 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,680 It's hard to reconcile that and the year after with what we've 633 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,080 seen the last season and a half and I and when you look at that 634 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,560 Illinois game and getting blown out by 25 at home, look, 635 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,400 Indiana's gotten blown out at home before. 636 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,760 It's not the first time we've, you know, I've, I've sat through 637 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,440 several blowouts at IU, but that one felt different because that 638 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,600 first half just felt like a capitulation. 639 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,560 It felt like we're not, we don't care enough to try. 640 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,880 And as much as you want to point the finger at players on that, 641 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,640 ultimately coaches get paid huge amounts of money in this 642 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,440 business because they get credit when teams do play hard. 643 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,040 Like when we look at at all the Auburns and the Alabamas and the 644 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,600 Uconns and all of these these teams and the way that those 645 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,360 teams are able to play with a sense of pride. 646 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,080 Iowa State's another one. Like, why is Iowa State doing so 647 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,560 well that that's a team with no natural recruiting advantages, 648 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360 but they they have a coherent identity and they've plugged 649 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,400 players into it. Mike Woodson chose to go grab 650 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,960 players without having a coherent identity to plug them 651 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,080 into. And I believe going into every 652 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,080 season, we're going to give it a chance to play out. 653 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,920 We're going to see how it works. What we've seen out there the 654 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,600 last two games just doesn't warrant that. 655 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,520 I mean it. I don't know what argument you 656 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,520 could make to say, well, there's a light at the end of the 657 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,560 tunnel. It feels like the light at the 658 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,040 end of the tunnel right now is a train. 659 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,240 Yeah. Well, and you know, the the 660 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,880 blowout against Illinois, it's in context of just getting blown 661 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,240 out by Iowa. Like that's the thing too, is 662 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,240 like it's not just teams can get blown out, but having 663 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,480 back-to-back blowouts like coming out and looking lethargic 664 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,000 after you did it four days before is tough. 665 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,240 You know, when you when you look ahead, I don't, I mean, you can, 666 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,480 I don't really want to get into like what what do we do and what 667 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,280 decisions need to be made. But the thing that's rattling 668 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,880 around in my mind that I would always say the last job that I 669 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,320 had was I'd say this to my managers like, because he was 670 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,800 very indecisive at times. And I would say, you know, not 671 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,199 making a decision is a decision and it has its own consequences. 672 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,679 Like you, just like we'd be picking between three different 673 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,520 marketing strategies. And it's like he just like I, I, 674 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,159 he wouldn't make a decision. I'm like you're, you're picking 675 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,520 the 4th door. Like just not making a decision 676 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,560 is making a decision. And that that's what I wonder 677 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,320 about here is if you know, and again, I don't know, there's 678 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,639 things you could do, but just not doing anything is like, I 679 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,280 just, I, I hope that they understand that is also a 680 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,120 decision that has its own repercussions and ramifications. 681 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,040 And I, you know, I, I'm not as concerned about like basketball 682 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,760 apathy because at the end of the season, you know, getting a new 683 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,840 coach is the NBA equivalent of, you know, tanking like that. 684 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,880 Suddenly everything gets refreshed and renewed and the 685 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,280 people will come back. You're almost at a point now 686 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,800 where like you, you want fan apathy, but you just want people 687 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,960 to check out because you don't want them to come in for six 688 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,720 games booing and, you know, calling for firings and doing 689 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,120 that like it's going to get really ugly. 690 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,640 And I do think I've been a lot of my friends and people that we 691 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,920 know like they're just checked out, like they are already 692 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,640 checked out. And I can see, you know, poor 693 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,360 crowds. And in a way to me, that's 694 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,400 probably the best outcome for here is everyone just checks out 695 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,680 and we checked back in in, you know, the end of March. 696 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,200 But I just that that's the thing in my head is that, you know, if 697 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:29,200 you're IU, there's no good decisions here but not doing 698 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,840 anything. Is it just hoping that? 699 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,560 You can win a bunch of games like that's, that's a decision 700 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,080 that does have its own, you know, repercussions. 701 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,280 And maybe that's the best decision here is to do nothing 702 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,080 until the end of the season. Well, it's funny, 'cause I, I 703 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,680 was thinking about that. You do I, I think you're right. 704 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,520 You, you do almost hope that people get apathetic. 705 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,440 You hope that people just stop getting attention. 706 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,680 But I again, it's Indiana, you're not going to get that to 707 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,160 happen. People are very passionate about 708 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,040 this program. And I'm, I'm frankly tired of 709 00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,640 that being held against the fans. 710 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,800 I agree. I'm, I'm frankly tired of. 711 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,000 And it's not, I'm not saying the athletic department holds it 712 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,440 against the fans, but I do think a lot of self-proclaimed thought 713 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,240 leaders on social media hold the passion of the fan base against 714 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:14,400 them. Yeah. 715 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,760 You know, the fan, Look, fans are generally inarticulate about 716 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,560 how to express this because they expect to go spend a lot of 717 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,280 money on tickets, go sit in the stands and cheer. 718 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,720 Or they expect to spend a ton of money going to Atlantis or going 719 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:28,320 to Vegas or going to Atlanta to go cheer the team on. 720 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,600 And, you know, they're doing that and they're seeing Indiana 721 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,280 get blown out by 25 at home to Illinois, or they're going and 722 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,880 seeing Indiana getting blown out in the Bahamas, or they're going 723 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,920 and seeing Indiana get blown out in Vegas or in New York or in 724 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,720 Atlanta. It it's really so so people get 725 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:47,760 frustrated by that, but then they're told, well, you, you 726 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,000 shouldn't express your frustration because you should 727 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,240 just sit there and be happy with whatever you've got and you 728 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:54,800 don't know what you're talking about anyway. 729 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,600 And and I do think that that gets that that really does leave 730 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,560 fans in a no win situation because everybody, everybody it 731 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,000 felt like that I talked to this offseason was like, I don't 732 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,360 think this is going to work with Woodson, but we'll see. 733 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,320 There were a lot of people that were less optimistic than that. 734 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,840 They were like, he shouldn't have been back. 735 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,200 I don't know that there was AI don't know that you were ever 736 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,400 going to get a scenario given the particular situation at play 737 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,120 with this role and the person involved and some of the other 738 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,000 people involved. I don't think there was ever 739 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,120 going to be a scenario where Woodson wasn't coaching this 740 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,280 year at IU. But what's frustrating is that 741 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,760 this was always a likely scenario that it wasn't going to 742 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,560 work out and that this was going to be where we were sitting 743 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:47,000 halfway through January. And I am frustrated that it's 744 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,960 been allowed to get to this point again, because, you know, 745 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,000 you, you a subpar product keeps being put on the floor. 746 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,720 And there's no real reason for it other than a lack of 747 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,240 understanding of the relationship that seems to exist 748 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:10,240 between the fans and the program and a lack of understanding 749 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,720 about how you have to try to navigate that. 750 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,640 And whoever the coach is has to navigate it. 751 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,880 I mean it. This is where, you know, Archie 752 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,200 Miller had a lot of flaws. And one of his biggest flaws, 753 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,640 maybe the biggest flaw, was that he clearly didn't know how to 754 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,680 communicate to the fan base. You know, one of Tom Crean's 755 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,480 biggest strengths at the beginning was he knew how to 756 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,640 communicate to the fan base. And you can mark almost exactly 757 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,120 the time when things turned. It was when Crean stopped 758 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,720 communicating with the fan base. Now you can say while the fan 759 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:40,720 base is, you know, is, is not good to deal with. 760 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,000 But I don't think that's true. Like most fans just want to 761 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,840 hear, hey, we're there are flaws here. 762 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,600 We've got to try to figure out a way to work on them. 763 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,760 I Yeah. A. 764 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,520 Prime example of that is like the Pacers this year, you know, 765 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,160 they start like I'm a Pacers fan, like they started out slow. 766 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,440 Halliburton wasn't looking good and in all the post games, it 767 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,760 wasn't like they they were saying, man, you know, fans just 768 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,880 got to shut up or you just got to get used to like they were 769 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,680 all saying, you know, and again, what are you going to say? 770 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,760 But like Halliburton was saying like, I I got to figure this 771 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,200 out, Like I got to figure out what's going on, Like I'm going 772 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,680 to work on this. And now if he they continue to 773 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,480 struggle and he kept saying that at some point it's like, all 774 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,640 right, let's figure it out. But you know, we we the Pacers 775 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,480 have now won like six to seven. They played well, like maybe the 776 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,280 competition's slight, but like hearing that throughout the 777 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,200 process, like, well, at least they're saying the right things 778 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,160 like, and and that's, you know, that is part of professional 779 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,880 like at high level sports is like you, you got to say 780 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,600 sometimes the right things and a lot of times it's platitudes, 781 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,160 but you have to say that. You can't just be like, Hey, 782 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,520 there's real Pacers fans. There's not Pacers fans. 783 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,680 Like this is our process. This is the way we're going to 784 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,000 do it. If you think you're, you think 785 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,720 I'm playing bad, you're wrong. It's like that. 786 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,280 You're you're creating animosity. 787 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:45,920 Doesn't need to be there. And like the Pacers are a prime 788 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,760 example. And now couple wins. 789 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,000 It's like everyone's like, great, you know? 790 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,040 He says. He's to figure it out. 791 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,040 He's figuring it out Well, and there's another element with 792 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,560 college basketball now. And look, I don't agree with 793 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,920 fans when they say this, but I understand where they think 794 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,240 they're coming from, which is, you know, one of the big 795 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,960 refrains I keep hearing is, well, you know, guys are getting 796 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,240 paid now. They don't care. 797 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,320 You know, they're not going to go out and put out effort. 798 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,280 This is you, always you can. You'll know when to disengage 799 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,320 with an IU fan if that comes out of their mouth, if you hear that 800 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,520 from anybody. Because I'll note, like if you 801 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,000 think that again, if you think Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, 802 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,000 UConn, if you think those guys aren't getting paid, you're a 803 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,960 moron. And if you don't understand that 804 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,040 they're playing really hard, like watch their games. 805 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,920 Like they play really hard. They play really well. 806 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,000 They win a lot of games. It has nothing to do. 807 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,360 Can I say, can I say two more things on that? 808 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,880 Like, yeah, go. Ahead, I would also say if you 809 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,680 think people weren't getting paid before nil, you're a moron. 810 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,440 Like there were people getting paid who played hard. 811 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,120 But but I also like this is I brought this up before it. 812 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:53,240 It always concerns me in that, you know, there are I I'm not a 813 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:56,080 fan of booing players at any level, but like there, there is 814 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,160 kind of an agreement like you're a professional athlete. 815 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,360 You play play for the Pacers. First off, you're guaranteed a 816 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,440 salary that is normally higher than most NIL, but you get 817 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,000 health insurance like you're a professional. 818 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,600 It's part of your job. I'm not saying it's right. 819 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,160 I would never Boo anybody, but I'm like, you want to Boo a 820 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,520 professional player, don't cross the, you know, the line, But 821 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,600 like, that's fine. My thing that I think does need 822 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,160 to be always thought of is sure, you know, Balo could be getting, 823 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,120 he's getting money. He's still like 20-3 years old. 824 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,280 Like he's still young. A lot of these kids are 19/20/21 825 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,120 years old. And like, yes, they are getting 826 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,400 some money to play basketball, but like they are by by no 827 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,600 means, it's not a, like they don't have health insurance, 828 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,240 it's not a job, They don't have a pension. 829 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,600 And I'm, I'm just like, there's a dynamic here where we're 830 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,080 treating them as if they are exactly like professional 831 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,600 athletes, but they're not like they are still in college. 832 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,840 They're still in a in a, they're still 20. 833 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,960 I mean, you're still young and you're still learning things. 834 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,520 I'm not saying 24 is any different in the NBA, but it's 835 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,120 like you, you are now a professional. 836 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,200 You've taken a different step to get there. 837 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,160 It's always bother me. And then I just the last thing 838 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,480 I'll say when people then it's like, so I'm going to put my 839 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,960 anger and my vitriol toward the adult who's a professional, 840 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,760 who's getting paid, also getting paid and is, you know, in his 841 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,960 mid 60s, a coach. Why is like, why is that the 842 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,880 wrong thing to do? Like you want to yell at a 19 843 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,760 year old that that's sorry, That's just, it's always 844 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,520 bothered me and it will always bother me. 845 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,400 Like you have to remember these are college kids and think about 846 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,480 where you were in college even if you were getting paid for a 847 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,840 job or not. No, I, I'm I agree and and I get 848 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,800 where I was going with my original statement. 849 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,600 There was was not too different from where you ended up, which 850 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,920 is that the, I don't think the team's been put in a position to 851 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,480 succeed. And I think that that lands 852 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,200 squarely on the shoulders of the coach and the, and the coaching 853 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,480 staff. And I get frustrated when the, 854 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,680 the discourse then trends towards, well, you know, we're 855 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,920 going to talk about players or lack of effort or whatever. 856 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,120 I'm not absolving players. There's clearly some lack of 857 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,960 effort issues, but it's ultimately the coach's job to 858 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,560 get people up and running. And it's one thing it's like if, 859 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,400 if you inherit A-Team or if you just, if you under recruit, 860 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,880 that's one thing. This is a group of talented 861 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,440 players, Yeah. Like, there's a bunch of coaches 862 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,800 across the country who would love to have this particular 863 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,840 roster and see what they get this roster, right. 864 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,840 And and it is. And going back, I guess, to what 865 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,000 you said earlier about decisions and, you know, not like not 866 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,880 making a decision is a decision. It just kind of feels like, 867 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,480 again, Indiana's in a spot where they're not willing to make a 868 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,840 change until the end of the year and Woodson's not going to make 869 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,800 a decision on his own. And I'm not saying either side 870 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,800 is wrong in that, but it's just going to lead to a very ugly 871 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,160 next two months 'cause it's I I just don't see a lot of 872 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,760 scenarios where it gets better. It's a tough conference. 873 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,320 It's a team that has shown a a ton of weaknesses. 874 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,480 They can win any game, any one game on their schedule. 875 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:52,800 They can win the rest of the way. 876 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,680 They have that level of talent. If their shots are going in and 877 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,360 if they're playing good defense, they can win any single game 878 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,560 that they have left on their schedule. 879 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,560 But that's not what basketball in the team sports setting is 880 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,120 about. It's about winning enough games 881 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,000 to make a tournament. It's about living up to 882 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,520 expectations, as you said earlier. 883 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,960 And the bar for this season was very high. 884 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,840 And it wasn't just fans that were setting that it was it, it 885 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,440 was it was expectations that came from the coaching staff. 886 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,760 It was expectations that came from media that covered the 887 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,600 team. And it's just, it's very 888 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,200 disappointing that it's where it's at. 889 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,320 And given the personalities involved and the circumstances 890 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,000 involved, it just feels like we're going to be involved in a 891 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,240 car crash here for the next two months. 892 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,720 Because it feels like at this stage, I, I, I'm having a hard 893 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,400 time envisioning a scenario where it ends any other way than 894 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,680 that. Because it would require 895 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,080 something that is very unusual out of either party moving 896 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,000 forward for that to change. And it's just, it's unfortunate 897 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,520 because it's going to lead to a lot of negativity, a lot of 898 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,120 toxicity. It's going to lead to Indiana 899 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,560 looking bad as an institution. It's going to lead the fans 900 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,520 looking bad. It's going to lead to the 901 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,480 coaching staff looking bad. It's going to lead to the 902 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,760 players looking bad. No one wins in this scenario and 903 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,560 I'm frustrated that it's gotten to this point when it was very, 904 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,480 very likely and it was easy to predict that this was the point 905 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,080 that it was going to get to. And I just want to say dot dot 906 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,600 dot again, because what, what's frustrating is we, we kind of 907 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,200 went through it, but you know, this is basically another, 908 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,600 another March since you and I have graduated from college 909 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,280 where I just want this to be over and I want to be moving. 910 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,880 And we all kind of know what's going to happen. 911 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:41,320 It's just we got to basically hunt two months to get there. 912 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,640 And what sucks is so we're doing it this time. 913 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,320 Last Archie's last year, we did it for less time, but you know, 914 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,800 there was still a period of a couple of weeks to a month where 915 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,720 we did it at the end of cream's time. 916 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,680 We're at three. We did the exact same thing, you 917 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,800 know, the, the the Docket Sampson thing. 918 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,240 It's a different situation, but like it still happened. 919 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,160 Like it just it, that was another period where it's like, 920 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,480 all right, I want this to be over and I'm ready for the next 921 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:07,320 page. That's four. 922 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,160 And then as you mentioned, Davis, that's five. 923 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,960 That's five years, 5 marches. I remember growing up where 924 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,680 March was awesome. March didn't always end in the 925 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,520 final four, but at least it ended up playing a game that I 926 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:19,960 cared about and we lost the game. 927 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,560 It's like, oh, that sucks, man. We were A10C. 928 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,280 Like what are you going to do? Do better next year. 929 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,640 I never thought that 20% of my life after college would be 930 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,040 spent just like, I cannot wait for it to be April to get the 931 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,720 hell out of this situation. And we're now doing it five 932 00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:35,160 times. And that that's, that's the 933 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,960 frustrating part. And there's different people 934 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,080 involved. There's different like, and I'm 935 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,040 not connecting any of the two. I'm just saying that's where I 936 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,360 get really pissed. I just, I do like I'm, I'm 937 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,320 annoyed that I have to sit through this again. 938 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,920 And we all kind of know we just need to get there. 939 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,240 There's no solution but just time. 940 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,800 But I'm. 46 I'm going to be 50 in four years. 941 00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,480 Like I'm running out of time, bro. 942 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,320 Well, I'm really running out of time. 943 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,280 Just punt seasons away. It goes back to something I 944 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:06,440 forgot. I think it was in the last 945 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,600 podcast we did. I heard from a few people about 946 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,560 it. It's why when you say and you 947 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,880 know, I are the IU basketball should be in the Sweet 16 or, 948 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,640 you know, competing for Big 10 titles, again, this is Indiana 949 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,680 basketball. This is what it's been allowed 950 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,720 to devolve to. OK, we are Minnesota at. 951 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,120 Least they beat Michigan. Well, right. 952 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,960 You know, I mean, what it's, it's, it's there's just, 953 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:36,400 there's, there's the the fact that again and again, and, and 954 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,800 I, if you've listened to the podcast for any amount of time, 955 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,720 I've made this statement before. This is nothing new. 956 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:46,840 But again, Indiana made the wrong hire head coach and has 957 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,000 gotten themselves down a rabbit hole that they're going to only 958 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,800 be able to dig out of by firing that coach and trying again with 959 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:52,840 somebody else. And. 960 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,800 That that could be applied to three different situations over 961 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,840 the last 20 years. It's like, I would be like, who 962 00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,560 are you talking? Which one are you talking about? 963 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,960 Surely no, it's 4-5. It's 5I mean you. 964 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,080 You can't make any argument that Davis or Sampson or Miller or 965 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,400 Woodson was the right hire. You could maybe make a limited 966 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,920 argument for Crean. Crean, I think just his shelf 967 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,400 life expired after about 5 or 6 years. 968 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,920 And in Samson, you mean not the coaching, but the the cultural 969 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,840 fit, Right. But again, like that situation, 970 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,280 it's like you're going to hire this coach. 971 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,960 And and at the time, there was nobody controlling anything at 972 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,760 IU. And you know that he's a loose 973 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,560 cannon with rules. Yeah. 974 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,360 And so it's like you got to commit to the bit if you're 975 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,120 going to do that. And just like with this, I mean, 976 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,360 and great point. And I think for Indiana, for 977 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,360 better or for worse, like I always love how it's like 978 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,960 Indiana doesn't support of the coaches. 979 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,800 You know, Indiana doesn't support the coaches that they 980 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,400 hire. It's like Indiana throws their 981 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,160 full faith and support and weight and finances behind every 982 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,440 coach they hire. They've just done a bad job of 983 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,440 hiring coaches. And that's where, you know, I 984 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,360 remember you, you had somebody had asked you once like why 985 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,040 didn't I you hire a signeti type before? 986 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,520 It's like this is I was talking to somebody else about this that 987 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,760 you know, to me that I think this is this, you know, you you 988 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,200 got to put the full effort behind a coach, but then you 989 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,480 have to cut when you know it's wrong. 990 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,680 And sometimes that seems early. But like I go back to the Miller 991 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,840 hire, like Archie Miller and Chris Holtman. 992 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,200 I will die on this hill that year. 993 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,440 Those were the two best coaches in that offseason. 994 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,960 Like they were go back and there was nobody else. 995 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,120 And like, I mean, you could make a case like, oh, maybe you 996 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,440 should have gotten out of oats from buff like that. 997 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:27,520 What wasn't going to happen like. 998 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,000 At that point in time. NATO's, sorry, Bueno's brothers 999 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,120 even better. No, no. 1000 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,400 At that point in time, it was Holtman and it was Miller, and 1001 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,520 you picked 1. And, you know, The thing is, why 1002 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,200 does, like, this is a question that's always vexed to me is 1003 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,720 like, you look at Archie Miller, you look at Holtman, you look at 1004 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,640 Nate Oates at Buffalo, There's nothing that you could say like, 1005 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,400 well, no question two of those are going to fail. 1006 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,480 Like, if anything, Archie Miller had better success at Dayton 1007 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,520 than Oates did at Buffalo. Oates is doing really well. 1008 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,000 Miller isn't. Like, I don't know if we can 1009 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,480 answer why. I think The thing is you just 1010 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,200 have to identify it's not working. 1011 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,040 We're going to move on quick and look, you have to do that and 1012 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,320 you're not, you know, maybe the next tire isn't, maybe you won't 1013 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,000 hit it again because I got this is really tough to figure out 1014 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,680 who can make that next step and make it successfully. 1015 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,640 But if it to me, it's like you've got to just quick 1016 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,560 decisions, quick decisions and move on. 1017 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,720 I think that's where we failed is that we let things linger and 1018 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:26,800 now again we're lingering again. Not much else to say, so we'll 1019 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,280 wrap it up there. Thanks for joining us folks. 1020 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,720 Once again as Crimson cast rolls along. 1021 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,400 We'll be talking again. We might have something this 1022 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,520 weekend for you. We'll see as Indiana takes on 1023 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,600 Ohio State on the road this evening for Scott. 1024 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,040 I'm Galen, This is a Crimson cast. 1025 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:42,800 Thanks for joining us. As always. 1026 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,600 We'll we'll pod through this together. 1027 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,480 I promise. We'll catch you folks. 1028 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,560 On the flip side. Stay Never daunted, bring back 1029 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:49,600 the vice, and so on everybody.