1 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,440 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:31,200 Field Apparel. I guess I should unmute. 3 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,400 Myself first here we go that's better welcome back to Crimson 4 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:35,800 cast most. Of the only five years pal 5 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,880 Caulfield joining you as. We get the dance mix open. 6 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:39,800 You like that? Yeah. 7 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,080 And the dance mix. Yeah, people, people have said 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,000 that the Crimson cast theme is a banger. 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,640 So royalty free on iTunes 17 years ago, open for anybody. 10 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,240 It was wild. I wonder whatever happened. 11 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,760 I don't even remember the guy's name, but yeah, it's. 12 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,480 It's like, it's like when Scorsese got, you know, Clapton 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,640 Layla for Goodfellas, like that song had been sitting there. 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,720 I was listening to the rewatchables with Wayne's World, 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:04,959 like Bohemian Rhapsody have been there. 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,520 Like this song was out there on iTunes for any, you know, call 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,120 her Daddy could have had this as their as their song. 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,880 Yeah, yeah, I bet they're, they're probably torn up about 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,200 that right now. But we're back, We're good. 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,520 We're talking last day of February, believe it or not. 21 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,720 Beautiful day down here in Bloomington. 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,920 The grapes are growing in in Scotts backyard vineyard up 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,600 there. Did you get some golf in this 24 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,240 morning, Scott? Everybody wants to know. 25 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:30,800 It's so funny. I was actually talking. 26 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,480 I, I, I wanted to the, the close the, the course nearby woodwind 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,040 opened up. It's, it's walking only, but 28 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,520 they don't play, don't open till noon 'cause I was trying to see 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:39,920 can I get 9 in, but it's walking. 30 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,600 I was like, I'm doing a podcast at 2:00. 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,880 No, literally that was a discussion this morning about 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,120 playing some golf. I'm going on a guys golf trip 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,120 next weekend to Tampa. Me and four of my high school 34 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,600 buddies. I'm very excited. 35 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,880 Everybody wants to know where the next. 36 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Polo Sesh is for you though. Some of my neighbors actually 37 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,520 gone to the Westfield Polo and they feel like it's kind of fun. 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,640 You guys should go. This is I know these are jokes, 39 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,000 but they're cutting real. Close man. 40 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,720 As we've said, Scott, is the other half OK like it. 41 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,320 This is this is it's a fascinating spot to be. 42 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,040 But now it's I'm glad you're having such leisure. 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,800 This is wonderful. I'm I'm I particularly for those 44 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,960 who are not watching, Scott wore his Ascot today. 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,040 It was, it was really a nice touch so. 46 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,720 If I wasn't an IU basketball fan, life would just be amazing, 47 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,640 like everything else would just be winning on all all of their 48 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,760 accounts. Perhaps sunshine is just over 49 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,760 the horizon with IU basketball. We'll see. 50 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,200 A lot of things have not happened over the last week 51 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,600 since we last talked. But you know, next week. 52 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,960 We're moving into March. I'll be surprised if we get out 53 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,920 of March without a new basketball coach. 54 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,920 Oh really? I'll be, I'll be. 55 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,720 I won't be shocked. OK, because I I picked April 56 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,160 2nd. I have AI have a bet with some 57 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,920 friends. We bet, we bet who's going to be 58 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,360 the coach and we bet the date I I picked April 2nd. 59 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:58,440 I kind of like this. We need we maybe we should 60 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,360 organize a Crimson cast version of this. 61 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,760 This is it's kind of like the Jerome, but for IU basketball 62 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:04,800 coaching searches. Oh. 63 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,120 Yeah, no, on one other part I got to talk through. 64 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,800 I know we're limited on time. This one. 65 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,360 I have a three of my buddies. We have a draft where we just we 66 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,720 did a snake draft of candidates for the job. 67 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,480 We did it last time with the Woodson higher. 68 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,760 Nobody got we did 5 rounds, nobody picked Woodson. 69 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,800 Just a heads up, and this year the joke was this year is my 70 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,280 buddy Robert and Ben, we're doing a keeper league. 71 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,400 So just in case there's future hires. 72 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,600 And so we, we like, I pick like Drew Valentine with my last pick 73 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,680 just because like, I don't know, man, maybe in five years we'll 74 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,000 be at this again. But at some point I, I will talk 75 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,720 through all the picks that were made. 76 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,240 But we also added a a pick for the date and I went April 2nd 77 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,480 because I'm just like, there's no way they can announce it on 78 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,720 April. 1st So that's my that's that is official sister of of 79 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,960 Crimson cast Olivia Clavio's birthday, April 2nd and famously 80 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:59,400 our our father had to instruct her in the womb not to be born 81 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,480 on March 30th April of 1981 because that was the national 82 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,400 championship game and she was very nice and waited the extra 83 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,440 two days. So not only was the game played, 84 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,760 but there was some time for celebration afterwards before 85 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,600 they had to go to the hospital. There you go. 86 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,560 Anyway, let's move on. We are brought to you by Home 87 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,600 Field Apparel, your place to go for the finest in college 88 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,000 fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest designs, and again, 89 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,800 lovely stuff across the board as Home Field continues to deliver 90 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,400 the things IU fans are looking for. 91 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,440 If you haven't been over there, just go to Home Field Apparel 92 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,520 search Indiana. You're going to find a ton of 93 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,200 stuff, probably more than any other school. 94 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,680 I haven't done the tally in a while, but I think it's probably 95 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,000 close. I just the other day Scott 96 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,920 busted out. My little 500 bomber jacket, the 97 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,360 black with the with the big flag display on the back, that thing 98 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,200 is lovely. I love it. 99 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,520 They have more racing stuff coming too. 100 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,080 It's got the e-mail. They have like a Dale Earnhardt 101 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:53,800 thing. But no, you're right. 102 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,720 Like we are on home field. What the Oregon football team is 103 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,680 on NCAA 25. Like there's a plethora of 104 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:01,880 stuff. Whereas like some schools like 105 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,520 you play. I'm playing a lot lately. 106 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,280 I play Texas and it's just like they have white and Burt orange 107 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:08,680 and that's that's all you got. But you know, yeah, Indiana has 108 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,080 nothing but options on home field. 109 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,280 Use the code home 23 get 15% off your first order again home 110 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:17,800 field apparel.com proud sponsor presenting sponsor of the back 111 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,480 home network. We also would like to encourage 112 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,640 everybody to go to YouTube, search back home network, join 113 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,000 the over 7100 folks that are subscribed there. 114 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,520 Join us on Sub Stack, it's free, you get podcasts delivered right 115 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,680 to your inbox. Occasionally you'll get an extra 116 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,920 podcast if you do the paid subscription option, which 117 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,560 you're not required to do $5.00 a month, $50 a year, help 118 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,400 financially support the podcast, keep the lights on and what have 119 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,680 you. So Scott, before we dive into 120 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,240 the coaching candidates Part 3, let's talk a little bit about 121 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,440 the game Indiana played a couple of nights ago. 122 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,360 I was in the building, Indiana, Penn State. 123 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,400 It was a predictably closer game than I think perhaps outside 124 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,960 forces might have anticipated. Indiana, again, struggled quite 125 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,760 a bit defensively in this game. And it was a game that was in 126 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,760 doubt until about the last 6 minutes. 127 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,000 And then Indiana figured out a way to make the plays and come 128 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,160 away with the victory. And Scott, I mean, it's largely 129 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,360 because Mike Woodson is just not playing certain players very 130 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,800 much right now. He's really coalesced around 131 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,480 this core of Trey Galloway, who's really picked it up lately 132 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,800 and I think deserves a ton of credit for, you know, coming 133 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,840 back from what was a disappointing first part of the 134 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:32,520 season alongside Anthony Leal, who's been getting a ton of 135 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,320 minutes lately. Luke Goody, who's been a Dynamo 136 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,600 offensively for this team. Miles Rice, who while he's had a 137 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,000 very uneven year, he's really kind of picked himself up and 138 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,600 made himself a guy you have to have on the floor, especially 139 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,000 defensively. And then either Malik Renew or 140 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,360 Umar Balo, it was Balo this time because Malik had what I've 141 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,720 heard was some kind of allergic reaction that that kept him out 142 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,760 of that game. Balo played amazing in that game 143 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,240 was really a key element. And that's really all that 144 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:06,840 they've been playing, though they've gotten a little bit out 145 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,840 of out of out of Canon Carlisle. He didn't have a very good game 146 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,040 against Purdue, but he did have a pretty good game against Penn 147 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,040 State. Five points all in a row and two 148 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,720 rebounds and really kind of gave Indiana a shot in the arm when 149 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,960 they needed it. I don't know if this is 150 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,960 sustainable. You know, this is a really short 151 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,240 line up. It's basically 6 1/2 players. 152 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,600 We haven't seen Bryson Tucker in a while. 153 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,920 McKenzie and Baco has contributed a little bit in 154 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,240 early stages of games, but now, like, you know, even though he 155 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,440 played 28 minutes against Penn State, I was shocked when I saw 156 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,480 that he had played that many minutes because he was basically 157 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,680 not on the floor for the second part of the second-half. 158 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,560 Only played nine against Purdue, only played 13 in that game at 159 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,800 Michigan State, largely, I think because of a lack of defensive 160 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,520 effort more than anything else. I give Woodson credit for 161 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,800 coalescing around this lineup because I think it's it's been a 162 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,080 big reason why Indiana has won three out of their last four. 163 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,440 It's probably not sustainable for that much longer, especially 164 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,200 as we get into periods where Indiana's playing games in a 165 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,200 tighter cluster. But I it now really makes me 166 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,280 wonder, you know, if if this had been the approach earlier and if 167 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,920 you had more buy in and you had this was really, you know, how 168 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,040 Indiana had committed to playing from the beginning. 169 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,680 Are we even sitting here talking about a coaching change or, you 170 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,720 know, is the season good enough that we're moving forward? 171 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,240 It's just a it's a real interesting thing to think 172 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,080 about. It it is, that's a great 173 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,920 question. I'm, I'm not sure if it's just 174 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,640 the playing time, but I mean, you're right, it is. 175 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,600 Woodson is kind of down to like we're playing 6 1/2 guys every 176 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,159 game and Imbacco just took the renew minutes in this Penn State 177 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:44,000 game. I, I would say that, you know, 178 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,400 it's, it's easy to do when you're coming off in nine days 179 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,480 between UCLA and Purdue and then you have back-to-back home games 180 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,080 with a three day gap. It's going to be interesting to, 181 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:53,760 I think we're going to start to stress test this. 182 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,040 I mean, we're going to hear the end of the season really quick. 183 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,560 But you, you have two games, you know, in three days, a lot of 184 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:02,040 flying, going to Washington and then Oregon and then you come 185 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,320 back four days later to play a game against Ohio State. 186 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,200 And then you play the big 10 tournament, which I'm not even 187 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,360 sure I've seen the bracket like I'm, I'm, but I'm assuming it's 188 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,440 just, you know, you make it on Tuesday or Wednesday and then 189 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,480 you just play every single day. And then if you make any kind of 190 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,080 tournament you're, you're doing, you know, a game every two days 191 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,800 and then going to a new site. So all that said, it's going to 192 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,640 be interesting to see how how this plays out, but I think 193 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:26,680 we're going to find out really quick. 194 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:29,840 The thing that I found funny again with the Penn State game 195 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,000 is the game is definitely in the balance. 196 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,360 And then Indiana goes on a 12/2 run with about 5 minutes to go. 197 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,960 Again, another game where we get the little run icon in the Ken 198 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,840 Palm score chart, like just that that has to happen in an IU 199 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,080 game. We also gave up A10 O run to 200 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,240 Penn State in the middle of the first half. 201 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,120 So again, this is a team of runs. 202 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,160 It's just a matter of when's the runs going to happen and can we 203 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,960 have the bigger run and can we have more than more runs than 204 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,320 the other team gets runs on us. Yeah, it was. 205 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,680 And it and it look, it was a weird vibe in there. 206 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:00,760 It was a weird game. It was, you know, the Purdue 207 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,360 game was such a a cool experience for so many of the 208 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,080 people that were in there because it was a really like 209 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,480 vibrant atmosphere. Indiana played really hard. 210 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,000 I mean, it was a lot of like, uncomfortable, oh boy, here we 211 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,520 go again kind of feeling in the crowd until Indiana went on that 212 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,240 12O run. I mean, at that point it was 213 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,600 6760. Five there were. 8 minutes left 214 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,200 in the game, it really looked like this was going to be one 215 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,320 that got away from IU and it was going to really hurt their 216 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,360 tournament hopes. And then they really took 217 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,040 control from there. And even though Penn State got 218 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,880 back into it a little bit at the end, you know, I think the 219 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,360 closest Penn State ever got was 5 the rest of the way. 220 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,000 And that I, you know, I really take my hat off to the guys that 221 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,760 played and especially Trey Galloway, who hit those clutch 222 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,880 threes down the stretch, Luke Goody, who had some great free 223 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,800 throws. I mean, there were just a lot of 224 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,120 guys who made good individual plays. 225 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,440 Omar Balo had a great rebound that kept that last big, like, 226 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,480 high leverage possession alive. But yeah, I mean, the runs, it's 227 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,880 just who this team is. This team's got the talent to go 228 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,160 on, you know, 1010 point run, 12 point run or 28 to three run as 229 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,960 we saw against Purdue. But it's also unless it's 230 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,400 focused and really drilled and. You know, doing what it needs to 231 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,920 do. It's also able to give up A10 O 232 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,120 run like they did earlier in the game against Penn State. 233 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,680 So the the thing I would say with the the shorter lineups is 234 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,840 as this has been happening, Woodson have been able to keep. 235 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,320 I'm just focusing on Balo just because for a while there he was 236 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,240 running some really high minute totals. 237 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,600 He was able to do that while keeping Balo at kind of a 22 to 238 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,080 26 minute a game against Penn State. 239 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,600 Balo has 36 minutes and we've seen, you know, there is that 240 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,400 stretch from, you know what the Ohio State home game to the 241 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:50,200 Purdue Rd. game where Balo was 40 minutes 363935 and then his 242 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,280 play fell off a Cliff for two or three games. 243 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,800 You know, it's it's you can't run him in the 35 plus minutes 244 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,880 for multiple games in a row. So it's that's what I'm going to 245 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,200 be looking for the next couple of games is how is Woodson going 246 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,960 to do of these line UPS, tighter rotations with also basically 247 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,880 one of the guys you got to keep kind of it 22 minutes a game. 248 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm curious about that as well, especially 249 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,000 with the road trip. Yeah, You know, so you got a 250 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,840 game on Saturday, you got a game on Tuesday, you got a big game 251 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,680 on Saturday and then. A road trip then the the teams 252 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,320 that go to play it seems like everyone either plays UCLA or 253 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,520 USC or you get the Washington Oregon 1 and it seems like the 254 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,920 Washington Oregon teams do a little bit better it's. 255 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,200 It's kind of it's very, it's very, I, I will say it has been 256 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,360 very hit or miss. I mean, if you look at like, for 257 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,240 instance, Minnesota went out and swept LA. 258 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,520 They beat USC by three, they beat UCLA by three and then they 259 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,520 turned around and lost at home to Penn State and Northwestern. 260 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:48,640 This league makes no sense. I will say that. 261 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,200 But you know, you look at the teams that have made the the two 262 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,360 parter road trip and and it's not everybody, but it's been 263 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,200 kind of a mixed bag. I mean, Michigan State went out 264 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,320 and lost the two LA games back-to-back and then has come 265 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,720 back and, and put a tremendous run on, you know, Michigan I 266 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,320 don't think went out there. It's, it's just been very 267 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:12,840 actually Michigan went to USC and ECOA as well. 268 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,760 So it's, it is a little bit uneven in terms of all of that. 269 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,960 You know, Purdue went out and beat both Washington and Oregon 270 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,520 by a pretty decent margin. I think they beat Washington by 271 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,640 11 and Oregon by 7. So we know it can be done. 272 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:27,960 It's just going to be interesting to see which IU team 273 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,880 shows up in both of those games. When you look at the bracket 274 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,720 matrix, we're we're popping as an 11 or a twelve seed right 275 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,440 now. So you know, it's it's as as 276 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,680 we've talked about our, our tournament hopes were never 277 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,080 done. It's that that game against Ohio 278 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,600 State, Ohio State's in a very similar spot that we are. 279 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,480 That's going to be a really key game when we get to that point. 280 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,760 Yeah, it's it's going to be really fascinating in terms of 281 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:58,680 the the way that the the tournament stuff goes in that 282 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,080 right now. I was talking with somebody 283 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,440 about this earlier. It's hard to conceive that 284 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,480 Indiana is going to be in the tournament, but they have more a 285 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,280 better chance to be in the tournament than out of the 286 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,120 tournament right now. And that does not really drive 287 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,040 with the way that we thought about the season up to this 288 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,320 point. And it doesn't make a lot of 289 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,360 sense just when you look at it on paper, except that, you know, 290 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:23,240 IU is 17 and 11:00. If they can go 2 and one in the 291 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,600 remaining part of the schedule, they'll be 10 and 10. 292 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,160 And you look at their results and, you know, they wanted Ohio 293 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,560 State. That's a really good win. 294 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,360 They wanted Michigan State. Very few teams have a win as 295 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:33,800 good as that in the whole country. 296 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,880 Yeah, and they beat Purdue at home and and they don't have any 297 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,000 bad losses. I mean, that's the thing. 298 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,800 The worst loss in the office. Yeah. 299 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,840 They're like, yeah, if you want, you want to look up good loss in 300 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,480 the dictionary, you see the little like pitchfork next to 301 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,280 it. The the worst loss Indiana has 302 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,480 all season is at Iowa. And that was a bad loss in terms 303 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,920 of like it was aesthetically ugly. 304 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,560 But they, I mean, Iowa, that's a that's a top 75 team, you know, 305 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,480 so it's not that's not really that damaging. 306 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,840 So the Washington game's really important because that would be 307 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,720 the worst loss of the season and it would be a terrible time to 308 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,560 pick up such a loss. The other two I think they need 309 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,040 to split Oregon and Ohio that. Has the feeling of like 310 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,080 something that could happen, which is what we see in the 311 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,000 team, yeah. But I could also see them losing 312 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,280 at Washington and then sweeping Oregon and Ohio State. 313 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,480 And then it's like, well, now you got a road win against 314 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,120 Oregon and now you got another great win that most teams don't 315 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,800 have. So that this is where it's, who 316 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,680 knows at this point. Just strap in and get ready for 317 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,600 the ride. And keep in mind that, you know, 318 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,840 there's a lot of other teams that also have to win in order 319 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,920 to get into the tournament. And I'm going to do a whole 320 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,840 bracket show next week. I haven't done 1 yet because 321 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,200 it's just been kind of crazy just trying to keep track of 322 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,680 what's going on with all this. But we'll walk through all the 323 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,760 teams that are in competition with Indiana. 324 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,480 We can talk through what exactly it's it's looking like and where 325 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,040 Indiana's results lie with others. 326 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,400 The other thing to keep in mind is like there's going to be bid 327 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,520 Steelers, you know, teams that win conference tournaments that 328 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,680 aren't supposed to, and you hate being in the category where that 329 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,000 affects you. But that's exactly where 330 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,280 Indiana's at right now. And that's going to be a 331 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,520 challenge that we got to just consider as we move forward. 332 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,360 Just a 2 minute question on this because I've had a couple of 333 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,400 friends, I think they're just gaslighting me about this. 334 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,440 But it's like the the question of all right, India makes a 335 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,880 tournament, how, how far do they have to go before you reconsider 336 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,840 bringing back Woodson? I'm just, I'm just curiously, 337 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,280 I'm going to rephrase the question. 338 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,760 If they make the tournament, at what point it of, you know, us 339 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,000 advancing far is is that's a different discussion. 340 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Let's just say pick a round where it suddenly becomes an 341 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,520 awkward discussion about how we're still like they make the 342 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,760 final four. It's going to be an odd like, 343 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,440 wow, we're actually going to to do this. 344 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,400 But where, where would you say that that becomes an odd, an odd 345 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,960 discussion point that we're still going to keep the, which I 346 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,440 think is what you need to do, but. 347 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,320 I was talking with friends of the pod, Mark, Katie and Chris 348 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,520 Williams yesterday and Matt Blaska and and this came up in 349 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,640 conversation. We were discussing it and my 350 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,960 response to them is what I'll say to you, which is at the 351 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,680 beginning of the year when we were talking about this IU team 352 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,839 who was, if you'll recall, picked second to win the Big 10. 353 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,200 We asked at that point, is making a Sweet 16 enough to 354 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,920 consider keeping Mike Woodson back during your way to some 355 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,560 degree into the NCAA tournament and winning a couple of games? 356 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,480 I don't think changes the problems that we've had within 357 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,760 the course of the season overall and the and why a decision was 358 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,920 made so early to move on from Woodson. 359 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:47,760 I mean, I, I think there's going to be so a lot of conversation 360 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,240 and question about if you, if the IU makes the Sweet 16, for 361 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,840 instance, if they make the NC double, I don't think they're 362 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,920 going to, but what? If they make a Davis style run 363 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,680 like they just the the bracket breaks they they wouldn't they 364 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,720 win a key game in the Sweet 16 and they're in the national 365 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,160 championship game. I mean, I, I, I don't know, I, 366 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,120 I, it's almost impossible to entertain that as a thought 367 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,640 process because I mean, you might as well ask, like, what if 368 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,240 the tournament gets cancelled? Then what? 369 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,760 Like it's, it's, there's, there's all kinds of those 370 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,400 things where it's hard to really put that in. 371 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,120 I look, here's the thing. The one thing I'll the one thing 372 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:27,720 I'll, the one thing I'll say on this is a lot of people, those 373 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,360 questions first started popping up not when Indiana beat Purdue, 374 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:31,720 but when Indiana beat Penn State. 375 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,400 And I just would like to remind everybody that I, I was thrilled 376 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,760 that Indiana beat Penn State. I was thrilled that they've, 377 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,600 they've coalesced around the lineup that's working hard. 378 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,040 Penn State is 17th in the Big 10 right now. 379 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,400 Penn State had won one Rd. game the entire year and it was at 380 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,360 Minnesota 3 days before they played Indiana on the road. 381 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,280 I, I, I'm all for giving IU it's flowers. 382 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,240 I don't think that we need to be having the conversation about, 383 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,800 well, gosh, if we win four games in the NCAA tournament at this 384 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,880 point, since it's not even guaranteed he's going to get in. 385 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,840 So I'm I'm going to I. Think we pushed that off to the 386 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,480 side. For now, and we can revisit. 387 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,240 I, I agree. It's like, it's like paying 388 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,920 taxes on winning the lottery. Like it yeah, that, that, that 389 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,640 theoretically sucks, but you also won the lottery. 390 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,280 Like if we're in the final four, that's I, that's a, that's a 391 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:18,640 weird conversation I'd be happy to have. 392 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,480 Let's win the Big 10 tournament 1st and then see what happens. 393 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,080 Let's win a game in the Big 10 tournament. 394 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,840 Win a game, let's win one. Game in the Big 10 that would be 395 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,720 ideal all. Right on that. 396 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,160 Let's talk about other coaches. Yeah. 397 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,480 So let's let's get to the other coach discussion. 398 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,720 I'm calling this group, so I know we got to name it, name it. 399 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,440 Well, we don't have to, but I'm naming the groups. 400 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,040 All these guys are, you know, I'm 46, you're 45. 401 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,480 They're they're kind of in our age range growing up, not 402 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,720 millennial. So I'm, I'm calling this the 403 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,480 Friendster group Friendster or Myspace because they're a little 404 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,120 bit before, you know, they, they were around, they're kind of our 405 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,080 age. So we're going This is the 406 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,440 Friendster group, the the Six Degrees. 407 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,000 Group, right? Yeah, You remember, you remember 408 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,360 that one, right, Friendster? God, I that's that's yeah, OK, I 409 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:02,040 like it. This is a this is a relatively. 410 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,160 There's enough Gen. X DNA in this group that you 411 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,600 know that we maybe we should call them like the singles. 412 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,480 Group or say. Reality bites. 413 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,360 Reality Bites. This says that singles. 414 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,720 Yeah, yeah, this the Reality Bites. 415 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:15,720 Group. I love it all right. 416 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,240 So we have been trying to cordon off groups of four. 417 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,680 We're going to have more of these. 418 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,840 We've done 8 so far. And if you have missed those 419 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,760 those, go back and listen to those podcasts. 420 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,160 Do you think when we're done with this we will have done our 421 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,040 new coach? Yes, I do. 422 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,800 And in fact, we're going to there's, there's big names we 423 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,080 haven't hit. We're going to hit one that 424 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,560 everybody talks about in this group. 425 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,920 There's big names we haven't touched thus far, right, that we 426 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,200 are planning on doing and we're trying to meter this out because 427 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,520 we've got a long way to go. Obviously still in this coaching 428 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,280 search, probably another month or if you're, if you're Scott, 429 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,120 we've got a month. We got a like 5 weeks instead of 430 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:51,160 four. Right, right, right. 431 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,640 So let's start with a name. I don't really think is a 432 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,840 serious candidate, but I keep seeing him popping up on job 433 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,880 boards and I don't for the life of me understand why he coaches 434 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,000 in the Big 10. He's he's been in the Big 10 for 435 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,200 longer than you might think. And other than being I guess, a 436 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,760 relatively good looking guy, I really don't understand like why 437 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,960 people keep bringing him up. But it's Chris Collins at 438 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,160 Northwestern. So Chris Collins, he's 51 years, 439 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,440 He's going to be 51 years old at the start of the upcoming 440 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,960 college basketball season, which is younger than I would have 441 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,080 anticipated, but relatively young. 442 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,280 Guy makes $2.8 million a year, does not have a buyout at 443 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,840 Northwestern. At least from all all evidence 444 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,320 that I can find they they got rid of the buyout in his last 445 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,800 contract extension. Maybe Cronin can give him some 446 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,040 of his. Like, here's 2 million of my 447 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:43,800 buyout. There you go. 448 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,440 Yeah. Yeah, let's let's pool our 449 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,880 buyout. Let's see what happens. 450 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:53,800 Five O 7 win percentage for his career, which 192 and 187 is his 451 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,640 totals 3 and three in the NCAA tournament was Big 10 Coach of 452 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,160 the Year in 2023. In his time in the Big 10 and 453 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,600 this is the only place he's ever coached as a head coach. 454 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,800 He is 84 and 140 in Big 10 play, which is a .375 win percentage, 455 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,120 which if he did get hired, that would be a great homage to the 456 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,640 history of Indiana football because that's about their 457 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,640 winning percentage. I think overall in conference 458 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,320 play. Chris Collins, his high 459 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,960 watermarks have come somewhat recently, of course. 460 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,680 If you all recall in 2022, they finished tied for second in the 461 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,160 Big 10 with Indiana. Sorry, 2023 tied for tied for 462 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,600 second with Indiana. And you know, if you look at his 463 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,680 history, a lot of the reason why he gets mentioned is because of 464 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,080 the pedigree of him having been a Coach K assistant for many 465 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,840 years. He's obviously got the Duke 466 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,280 connection there. I'm going to call his 10 pom 467 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,040 page up so we can look at it together. 468 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,960 But, you know, he's been coaching in Northwestern since 469 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,040 2014. And Scott, I'm just not seeing a 470 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,720 lot here to really get excited about. 471 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,600 As you know, he's at Northwestern. 472 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,000 Tough place to win. At least we always here. 473 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,680 And yet it feels like every other tough place to win has had 474 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,920 the ability to be more consistent with their winning 475 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,720 than has been at Northwestern. And while there is no argument 476 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,800 that Chris Collins has been the best coach Northwestern's had, 477 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,640 maybe ever, I still don't see a lot there that would make me 478 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,840 think, God, this is a guy I really would like to get as the 479 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,160 head coach of Indiana. I mean, he's been there. 480 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,080 He's only had three seasons in the big 10 with double digit 481 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,800 wins, a a lot of single digit wins. 482 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,200 Here's what I was noticing on the page. 483 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,800 Well, I, I would say, you know, because he's being mentioned for 484 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,120 the job. I would say he's got a great 485 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,280 agent, but he doesn't have a buyouts. 486 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,160 Maybe he doesn't have a good, maybe, maybe he doesn't have a 487 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:44,760 great agent or he has a great new agent. 488 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000 I I, I, I don't want to keep harping on this, but I will 489 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,240 bring this up on all the candidates today. 490 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,240 And I always go back on the Ken Palm looking at the rank in 491 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,840 adjusted offense and adjusted defense because we continue to 492 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,760 say, you know, normally if you have a team that's in the top 25 493 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,840 in both of those categories, you have a team that has the 494 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,000 hallmarks of a team that could go to the final four. 495 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,200 I was looking at it and this is an another weird marker point, 496 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,840 but he's never had a team in the top 10 of adjusted offense or 497 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,320 adjusted defense ever in his career. 498 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,800 And then I started looking just through his Ken Pom page. 499 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,200 Has he been in the top ten in the country in anything? 500 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,200 And he has. There's little pockets of like 501 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,840 one year they were top in turnover percentage. 502 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,520 They were in the top 7:00 or 8:00. 503 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,560 But my point is you go back and look at, you know, and I didn't 504 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280 do a deep, deep dive, but you look at Tom Crean when he was at 505 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,280 Marquette two years, he had an offense that was in the top ten 506 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,680 in the country. Like coaches that are going to 507 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,560 be taking a job like Indiana. I would hope that at some point, 508 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,240 maybe if you don't have tournament success, you have a 509 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,200 team that is just elite at something or you've shown over 510 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,320 the course of this long in one place. 511 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,840 You know what we call before, like, you know, hot green or 512 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,000 like a green streak, like something that just shows like 513 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,680 you have figured out something for Chris Collins. 514 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,040 Maybe it's offensive turnover percentage. 515 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,120 They're they're very high and not turning the ball over on 516 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:11,720 offense. That's it's just not there's not 517 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,040 enough. There's nothing that says like 518 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,000 he is great and making his team's elite at this. 519 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,400 Yeah, no, I mean, his teams don't shoot the ball well. 520 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,720 His teams, you know, they've had times when they've defended 521 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,840 well, but it's generally been at the expense of their offense. 522 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,480 There's just, there's not a lot there that sticks out 523 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,480 statistically and the. Good news is in when his 524 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,040 tournament results, he's never really lost to a he's never had 525 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,120 like a, a loss where he's, he's losing to a lower seed. 526 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,320 That's because he's always been a 7-8 or a nine seed where in 527 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,760 the second round you get shellacked by the one or the 528 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,120 two, which you know, that's, that was a year in mine college 529 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,760 experience with the IU Hoosiers with Bob Dias, you're always 530 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,560 stuck in that 8-9 game, which which sucks. 531 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,640 So I, I don't, I don't know why he's being mentioned. 532 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,320 I know. Well, he got mentioned. 533 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,680 He got mentioned in 2017 because if you'll recall, like that was 534 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,640 the first time he'd taken Northwestern of the tournament. 535 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,320 He'd been there for years. It's like, wow, there's a great 536 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,120 upward trajectory. And you know, that was famously 537 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:10,120 like Julia Louis Dreyfus, like kid or nephew was on the team 538 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:14,200 and you know, they, they won their first game and then they 539 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,480 proceeded to have 5, four straight losing seasons overall 540 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,720 and five straight losing seasons in the conference. 541 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,800 And you know, you go back and look at the articles from like 542 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,640 March of 2022 and it's like, well, they're bringing Chris 543 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,520 Collins back mostly because they can't afford to fire him. 544 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,640 Like that was literally the rationale in the articles and 545 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,320 had nothing to do with what we really believe in the Chris 546 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,320 Collins experiment. Now, to his credit, they have 547 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,040 been better. They were better in 23. 548 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,920 They were better in 24. And it's hard to judge this 549 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,320 season particularly strongly because they lose Brooks 550 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,720 Barnheiser, you know, in the in the middle of the season, they 551 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,520 lose. They got kind of snake bit by 552 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,920 injuries. They're still 6:00 and 11:00 in 553 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,160 the conference. But man, it's just like if if 554 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,320 this is another one of those candidates where it's like if 555 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600 this is who they end up with, either someone like really, 556 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,240 really wanted a Coach K assistant as the head coach at 557 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,920 IU or Indiana got turned down by all of the other. 558 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,560 Good candidates. And so they've settled for this. 559 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,600 You know, the only good, the only good thing he could bring 560 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,240 is the the fireworks that go off behind the basket while other 561 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,040 teams are still shooting that can make the ball go out. 562 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,760 That would be fun. Or or bring the officials that 563 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,880 refuse to call push offs on on his own team when they're 564 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,400 playing Indiana. Like if we could import that, 565 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,280 like if we get the whatever Boo Boo E magic they had in terms of 566 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,120 official calls, I would I would consider. 567 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,600 It at least or or can we also just take away the like 568 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,280 Northwestern's no longer Chicago's Big 10 team, just 569 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,200 Indiana becomes Chicago's Big 10 team. 570 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,960 I have been advocating that for years. 571 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,880 We have a far greater. Claim to that than they do 572 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,360 anyway. Anyway, I don't. 573 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,320 Think my my my number would be like I'd be in the 30s. 574 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,720 I'd be like a 32 just because I Indiana has in the last 10 575 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,480 years, Indiana has made three tournaments. 576 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,680 Chris Collins has made three tournaments in 10 years. 577 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,280 Like this is this is, I don't know what you're doing. 578 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,560 And it would kind of, it would look like everybody turned you 579 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,280 down. I would be at AI would be at a 580 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,200 20 like I I would be more excited for Brad Brownell. 581 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,640 Which K? Yeah, You did coach K today. 582 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,040 Yeah, I would much. I would much rather have Brad 583 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,960 Brownell than have Chris Collins. 584 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,240 Yeah. Even if Collins is going to 585 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,560 bring K back as an assistant, I'd be more interested. 586 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:22,560 So what if it? What if he brought Johnny 587 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,000 Dawkins too? And Steve Wojciechowski like 588 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,080 just getting the whole band back. 589 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,640 And Jay Beilis takes over Fisher's job just. 590 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:33,080 There you go. Let's move to our second 591 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,960 candidate, also a private school coach, younger, much younger, 592 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,160 Mark Byington, whose name has gotten bandied about. 593 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,480 There was what appears to be a very erroneous story that was 594 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,720 floated on social media that somehow Kurt Signetti having 595 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,520 worked with Byington when Byington was the head coach at 596 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,920 James Madison, that he was like advocating to Dolson that he 597 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,560 needed to hire him. And then of course, hilariously, 598 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,000 Signetti got on Twitter was like, Nope, that's not accurate. 599 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,200 It's I, I love that. That's great. 600 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,120 Signetti is so awesome. But when I look at Byington, 601 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,880 he's an interesting case. One thing I did here yesterday, 602 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,640 I was, I was listening to Field of 68 with Jeff Goodman and with 603 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,120 Robbie Hummel and Goodman mentioned that Byington's buyout 604 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,360 is pretty, pretty large, like $12 million. 605 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,120 He just got there. You look at his stats, he's 49. 606 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,360 He's going to be 49 at the start of the upcoming season, 237 and 607 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,400 142 overall, 625 win percentage. Just had kind of a, an 608 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,880 interesting pathway through his career. 609 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,760 He, he started off a a while ago, like, you know, even for 610 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,560 having, for being close to 50, he's been in the game for quite 611 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,360 a while. He was at Georgia Southern and 612 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,000 LED them from the Socon to the Sunbelt, was there for like 7 613 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,920 seasons, then moved to James Madison, LED them out of the 614 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,400 Colonial and into the Sunbelt. He's like a Sunbelt. 615 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,480 I don't know if that means Indiana would go in the Sunbelt 616 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,400 or if that's where Vanderbilt might be headed there. 617 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,800 I'm not totally sure. But you know, he's he's he's had 618 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,160 some success and and certainly he got hired at Vanderbilt 619 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,560 largely because he took James Madison from in the post COVID 620 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,680 year, a 15 and 14 record in a 227 mark. 621 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,680 And Ken Palm all the way up to not just being a tournament 622 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,640 invite in a 12 seed as a sunbelt team, but a team that won the 623 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,440 first game in the tournament, won 32 games that year. 624 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,080 He's he's an interesting candidate. 625 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,240 But again, Scott, when we talk about him, he's done really well 626 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,080 at Vanderbilt. He's in his first season. 627 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,280 It's an interesting idea, but he's he's pretty far behind a 628 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,880 lot of the other candidates that would be in the mix. 629 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,800 Just just looking at what he's done overall, you know, there's, 630 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,200 there's, there's a little bit of a footprint there, but only one 631 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,960 NCAA tournament appearance throughout the course of his 632 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,960 career as a head coach. Yeah, you got to be able to make 633 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,040 the tournament once or twice at a school, or it has to be 634 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,240 something where you make it and the team is so good. 635 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,680 Like that team at James Madison went 32 and 4. 636 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,640 They were 72nd in offense and 74th on defense ranking wise. 637 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,000 Like it, That's a team that is good but is not. 638 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,560 Like, again, not doing anything special. 639 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,480 This is the one where you look around, there's only one year, 640 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,680 one year they ever did anything that was in the top ten in the 641 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,960 country. And that was last year's James 642 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,680 Madison team. They were fifth in the country 643 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,080 at 3 point defensive a defense on three-point shots. 644 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,640 You figure all right, we're going to bring this to 645 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,760 Vanderbilt and we're going to take you we're going to move 646 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,120 this over. Nope and Vanderbilt, they are 647 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,720 the worst team in the country damn near 344th giving up 37% 648 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,720 from 3 point line sounds like something we're we're really 649 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,680 good at here at IU. We we could we could definitely 650 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,280 do that. It it looks I, you know, I don't 651 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,360 want to harp on this one too much, but it, it looks like 652 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,920 somebody who's OK and having some, you know, mid level 653 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,200 success. But but there's no, no evidence 654 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,320 in the numbers in the records in the tournament success that this 655 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,880 is somebody who can take a team and really do something elite at 656 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,520 some facet of the basketball game. 657 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,480 It looks like somebody who's able to kind of be an average 658 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,080 coach, and it seems like a great coach for a place like 659 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,600 Vanderbilt. Well, and, and maybe he'll grow 660 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,880 into something more than that and I am impressed. 661 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,680 His offense this year is far better than any offense he's 662 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,160 coached so far this year. They're 21st in the country and 663 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,520 adjusted offensive efficiency. And going seven and eight at 664 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,800 Vanderbilt in this year's SEC. Is nothing just. 665 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:33,560 To sneeze? No. 666 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:34,800 No. No, I mean, they've had a good 667 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,320 year. I mean, you look, you look down 668 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,080 the list of what they've done, they they beat Tennessee, they 669 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,440 beat Kentucky, they beat Texas, they beat Texas A&M on the road 670 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,280 the other day. That's that's a big win. 671 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,600 I mean, there's a bunch of a bunch of really good results 672 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,880 and, and it's not, I'm not throwing shade at Mark Byington 673 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,160 by any means. I will say though, that other 674 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,680 than playing fast and doing a pretty good job of limiting 675 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,720 turnovers, there's not a lot, as you said, that really sticks out 676 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:09,680 on his resume as being important and meaningful in terms of, hey, 677 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,320 this is clearly the next candidate for the IU job. 678 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,120 We're just, I don't see that in in what's out there. 679 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,200 So, you know, again, I think this is one of those names that 680 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,560 gets tossed around because he's having a good season. 681 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:26,520 He's got a loose, very loose tie to IU in that he was at James 682 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,440 Madison same time Kurt Signetti was. 683 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,960 But beyond that, there's not really a good argument to be 684 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,440 made here. And especially if he's got $12 685 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,640 million buyout, yeah. 12 million is a lot to pay for that. 686 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,800 Those results lot lot to Cronin's like what, 15? 687 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,480 But he's like just tournament, tournament, tournament. 688 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,960 Right, No, that's the thing. I mean, Cronin's at a 689 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,440 significantly higher level. So that's that's what I would 690 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,520 say there. I I, you know, I would be 691 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,120 intrigued if they decided this is the guy we wanted. 692 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,840 Like there would have to be something behind the scenes or 693 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,760 it'd be like, whoa, baby, but I'd be like, OK, you need to 694 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,800 show me what that is like real fast to get excited in this. 695 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,320 I mean, I'd be about the same level as Brownell in terms of 696 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,480 excitement, so I'd be around like the 25 to 30 range, but 697 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,560 again, it would feel like settling more than anything. 698 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,400 Else agree with all that. I'd be in the 32 to 35 range. 699 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,560 But the only thing that would make me happy is if it came out 700 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,280 it's like, well, as part of Signetti's extension, he 701 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,639 demanded that we hire the James Madison basketball coach. 702 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:24,239 Like, OK, Like, I I would if it makes Signetti happy. 703 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,360 And that's what kept him on football. 704 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:26,760 Like, sure, this, this looks great. 705 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,080 I love those 10 palm numbers. Yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of 706 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,520 it's there's certain things you'll allow, you know, as a 707 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,920 payment for, you know, hey, you got us to, you know, 11 and one 708 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,360 in football. Yes, we'll let you hire the 709 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,000 basketball coach. That's not happening here, 710 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,239 though. And and that's, that's funny. 711 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,080 Before we go on, we were asked by one of our Twitter followers. 712 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,800 This question. Love this question. 713 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,280 We've been doing this zero to 100 scale in terms of of our 714 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,280 excitement on hires. One of us, probably you, Scott, 715 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,360 you have a little more free time than me. 716 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,160 You just go back and actually write down what our actual 717 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,320 answers were so that we can have that moving forward. 718 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,200 But they asked us what would have been our zero to 100 719 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,760 excitement ratings on all the coaches since night that got 720 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,000 hired. I'm going to let you go first on 721 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,400 this. So we've got Davis, we've got 722 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,360 Samson, we've got Tom Crean, we've got Archie Miller, and we 723 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,840 got Mike Woodson's. We have 5, five people. 724 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,400 We need a zero to 100 number of what you would have been at the 725 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,320 time, not not knowing what happens, but at the time, how 726 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,760 excited would you have been for that hire given what we knew 727 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,480 about those candidates at the time? 728 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,200 What when are we when is when is the Davis hire because he was 729 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,800 interim and then like so? Let's say when he got hired full 730 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,920 time, so may or not May March of 2001 after after that four seed 731 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,520 year that he had for the interim. 732 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,760 Yeah, God. I was still so young and dumb at 733 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,760 that point, but my dad and I, I mean, imagine you were imagine 734 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,080 now flew to that game to watch us lose to Kent's. 735 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,360 It was just it, it was wild. We flew TWA the the teams were 736 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,840 facing and we're in the back like facing, you have the table 737 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,560 in the middle. I don't know what was going on. 738 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,680 We stopped in Saint Louis, flew TWA. 739 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,600 We get there and then it's like it's like a Thursday or Friday 740 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,920 game. It was obviously the first game, 741 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,160 but we had hotels till through Sunday and then it's just we get 742 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,200 our smoked by Kent State. I, I would, I was probably like 743 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:26,280 a 73 with Davis just because I was, I think I was buying into 744 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,040 the narrative of like, all right, you know, this guy's part 745 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,040 of the, you know, was an assistant, like he's part of the 746 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,040 lineage. I was more bummed after we lost 747 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,520 that that Kent State game, but that that four seed was the 748 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,040 highest seed line we had gotten in like 8 or 9 years at that 749 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,240 point. It had been a while since we 750 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,040 were a protected seed and then you know, it, it quickly 751 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,280 changed. The next year I probably would 752 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,720 have been like an 84 because I'm like took him to the title game. 753 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:51,040 Like like he felt like it was a, a breath of fresh air. 754 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:56,320 I wasn't thinking about how much we were giving up by not having 755 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,240 a real search at that point. So if I was doing it now, I'd 756 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:01,360 probably be like a 64. I think at the time I was like 757 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,400 in the probably the mid 70s. Yeah, I was not terribly excited 758 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,440 about the higher. I felt it was settling it. 759 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,000 It felt at that point, keep in mind that like there was not a 760 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,120 real commitment to winning on the part of the IU 761 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,600 administration. So I would have been probably 762 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,800 closer to about 45. The season was fine. 763 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,880 I mean, there was some great moments that season, but it it 764 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,520 just didn't feel like an inspired hire, especially with 765 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,960 some of the names that were thrown around at the time. 766 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,000 Remember Rick Pitino's name was getting mentioned. 767 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,840 This was pre baggage. Steve Alford, you know, it was 768 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,960 before Pierre Pierce and all of that, you know, so he was still 769 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,320 considered to be somebody that, you know, was it was in demand 770 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,200 and everybody kind of assumed he was going to get the job. 771 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,400 There were other name, Bobby Cremen's name I remember being 772 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,840 mentioned during that time period. 773 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,800 So to just be like, yeah, we're going to go with the interim guy 774 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,000 who didn't have any other prior experience. 775 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000 So I would have been around a 45, I think. 776 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,000 Let's go. Calvin Sampson. 777 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,040 What would have been your reaction for that one? 778 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,720 It's. Are are we like now if the hire 779 00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:03,120 happened now or like I'm saying at the time, at the time, at the 780 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,960 time, what was your level of excitement? 781 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,960 I was pretty excited. I mean, he had taken a team to a 782 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,640 final four. It, you know, it, it's really 783 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,760 tough to parse now knowing how quickly he just did the same 784 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,120 show of cost stuff that he was doing. 785 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,160 Then it felt like everyone said all the right things. 786 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,240 Like he he's done. He knows what he did wrong. 787 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,960 He's not going to do that here. We, we, we have a great plan in 788 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,840 place. And, and then very quickly he 789 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,960 got a team together and, and put it together. 790 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,960 I, I was, I, I would say like mid to high seventies, like 791 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,560 probably like a 76 or 77 because it felt like an interesting hire 792 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:40,920 and somebody who had a really good pedigree. 793 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:45,080 I was really mixed on this one. I was about a 55 or 60. 794 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,760 I remember having a conversation with my dad about this because, 795 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,640 you know, I I was still watching IU basketball, but I was also 796 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,560 watching Texas Tech. I was really interested with the 797 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:53,840 Bob Knight experiment down there. 798 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,160 I was going on. So I saw a ton of Big 12 games, 799 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,760 saw a bunch of of Oklahoma, always admired the way they 800 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,040 played. But I knew all the problems that 801 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,040 they were having at Oklahoma. And the fact that he was, yeah, 802 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,800 he was, he'd applied for the Arizona State job and then all 803 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,520 of a sudden he ends up with the Indiana job. 804 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,960 And it's like, well, they were chasing this guy out of Norman, 805 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,320 why are we hiring him? And that was not knowing all of 806 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,520 the back story at that point about how the hire had gone. 807 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,120 And So what, what was also for me is like I, I, that was a time 808 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,520 that I thought Alford made sense. 809 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,040 It, it just like that was what, you know, coming off a 25 and 9 810 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,920 year at Iowa, I think 2006 or 2007, like he was, he was still 811 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,960 doing well at Iowa. It, it felt like to me that was 812 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,560 the time I was like, I, I, I think I was disappointed they 813 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,400 didn't go with Alford because it felt like that would have been a 814 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,560 cool hire at that point. Let's go to Tom Crean only two 815 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,000 years later. So Crean gets. 816 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,560 I heard of the podcast like this is about the time you and I 817 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:46,800 start. We probably go back and listen 818 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:53,000 to the archives. I given everything that had 819 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,840 happened in the way that we self flatulated ourselves. 820 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,880 I was I would say I was in like the mid the low 80s, like 8283 821 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,480 only because this is a guy who had final four experience had 822 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,080 take, you know, had one of the. Most important players, the NBA 823 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,480 in his pedigree, seem like a young, energetic coach who 824 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,520 wanted to be there. And, you know, for those who 825 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,480 don't remember, that was a really dark period where there 826 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,360 was a lot like, why would anybody want this job? 827 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,000 You know, And there was a lot of discussion of like, maybe no one 828 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,480 would take that job. Looking back, there was a lot of 829 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,120 people who would have taken the job. 830 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,480 And it probably wasn't as we felt, but that that was a moment 831 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,720 where it did feel really dire. There was a moment where it's 832 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:36,720 like, are we getting Dan Dokic as our coach? 833 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:38,600 Like he's really advocating for it. 834 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,600 So I I would be high because it it, it, it all it felt really 835 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,320 good and ending and after the press conference. 836 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,120 Kareen won that press conference. 837 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,200 You're like, damn, this guy really wants to be here. 838 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,520 So yeah, it's like 8384. Yeah. 839 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,240 No, I was excited. I mean, it seemed like a good 840 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,000 hire. Like, I mean, there were there 841 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,360 were some questions a little bit about, you know, the, you know, 842 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,200 there were a couple whispers about how effective of a coach 843 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,440 he was going to be at the highest level. 844 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,040 But he was enthusiastic. He'd been to a Final Four within 845 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,640 the previous four years, played in a very tough Big E Seemed 846 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,000 like a really good hire. And so, yeah, I was. 847 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,680 I was right up there in that range. 848 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,360 Archie Miller, I'm going to that. 849 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,160 I'll just, I'll let me go on this one first. 850 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,600 I was very excited about the Archie Miller higher because 851 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,320 again, as we've talked about many times on the show, seemed 852 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,960 like a dynamite higher. Everybody said that was the best 853 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,200 higher in the cycle. There was I, I still can, 854 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,360 clearly. Remember in that 2017 tournament 855 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,040 watching Wichita State and Dayton in the first round and 856 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,840 thinking, God, I'd love either of these coaches look at how 857 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,480 hard their teams play. So, you know, obviously we saw 858 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,920 what happened afterwards and there were a lot of failings as 859 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,160 a result. But on paper, as we've said many 860 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,080 times, it it felt like a great process that led to a great 861 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,800 result that ended up being a terrible result, but it wasn't 862 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,280 because of the process. So yeah, it was. 863 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,200 I'll, I'll say 85 on that. One I'll I'll give you my my my 864 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,960 number with a story. My wife and I started a 865 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:04,040 scholarship at the School of Education around this time and 866 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,000 it was a fun process. If you haven't done it, I would 867 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,920 venture to do it. It's, it's a fun process. 868 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,480 It's very cool. It's now been funded. 869 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,280 We, we worked at the School of Education. 870 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,640 They were fantastic to work with. 871 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,680 And as part of that, they put, they used us for an 872 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,920 advertisement in the IU Alumni magazine. 873 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,200 And so when we got the IU Alumni magazine, it was the magazine 874 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,880 with the cover of Archie Miller on the cover holding the ball 875 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,640 like Assembly Hall on his back. I got it framed with that cut 876 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,880 out with a picture of us and our scholarship. 877 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,080 So excited. And I thought, this is going to 878 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,280 be effing awesome because now we have our next coach for 20 879 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,640 years. I'm going to put this in the 880 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,160 basement. And what a great cover of IU 881 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,120 alumni to have there. It has since moved to the corner 882 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,120 of the basement. I won't get rid of the frame, 883 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,840 but like I might at some point put a poster with a new face on 884 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:51,960 it. I was the same thing. 885 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,320 I've said it over and over again. 886 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,960 Part of you was like Holtman was interesting because like there 887 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,680 are so many good guys coming out of Butler over and over again. 888 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,200 But I've said it a bunch of times, I will say it again. 889 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,960 He was, you could argue him or Holtman, but it's it's kind of a 890 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,440 doesn't matter. He was the number one higher 891 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,440 that offseason. He was the best coach available 892 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,280 that offseason. I was probably in 93. 893 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,000 And then finally, Mike Woodson, I was at about A50. 894 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,360 It was very similar to how I felt about the Calvin Sampson 895 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:20,920 hire for completely opposite reasons. 896 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,280 Like I was like, oh great, an IU guy will understand the program. 897 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,680 But I think everybody was kind of like this. 898 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,520 This is what they landed on. And now of course, we've got 899 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,640 some additional context on that. But I, I was not, I was not sad 900 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,680 that white Woodson got hired. I was more confused, and that is 901 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,800 kind of where we're at with everything still, I think right 902 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,520 now I'm still very confused. How about you? 903 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,600 Yeah, I was probably like in the same boat, maybe a 61. 904 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,560 I I was trying I remember listening to assembly call. 905 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,360 Can't wait to talk to you. Like like what it it definitely 906 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,920 felt like we struck out and it felt like that we did kind of 907 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,520 the easy the easy pick. And again, I will joke. 908 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,600 Me and my buddies, Robert and Ben, we did a I'm looking at the 909 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,000 list right now, a coaching bet. Pick. 910 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,960 For that, I'll be real quick. These, these are the names that 911 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,000 we picked in five rounds of picking. 912 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,760 We for, for when we hired Woodson, our bets were Beeline 913 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,520 Mata, which ended up being there, Chris Beer, Dane Fife, 914 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,080 who also kind of was there, Scott Drew, Brad Stevens, Steve 915 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,800 Alford, Calvert Cheney, Eric Musselman, Dana Altman, Lawrence 916 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,600 Frank, Rick Pitino, Tony Bennett, Bruiser Flint, Bruce 917 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,520 Pearl, a lot of those guys. I'd, I'd be down. 918 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,440 I I'm in for going back and redoing it. 919 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,800 But it's just, I look at that and I'm like, we had 1517 names 920 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,440 and Woodson was never on there. That that isn't awesome. 921 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,480 I really went into it. I had to talk. 922 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,280 Myself into the all right, you know, NBA guy, he knows it, you 923 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,200 know, alumnus and all that. So, yeah, like 6162, all right, 924 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:47,560 We got to get to the last two candidates. 925 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:48,560 We don't have a whole lot of time. 926 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,600 Let's go to the youngest name. I think we'll have in this 927 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,960 entire search a guy who's had certainly a checkered experience 928 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,360 with the NCAA. Will Wade, currently the coach 929 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,080 at McNeese, which used to be McNeese State, formerly the 930 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:10,160 coach at LSU and VCU, ran afoul of NCAA rules violations and got 931 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,040 a show cause penalty and got essentially barred from LSU 699 932 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,800 win percentage. However, two and four in the 933 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,880 NCAA, 2 Coach of the Year awards and a guy who you want to talk 934 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,200 about some green streaks on his Ken Palm page. 935 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,600 There's a ton of them. Will Wade has been back in 936 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,480 coaching since his second year at McNeese. 937 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,120 He made the tournament in his first year. 938 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,600 Now McNeese is not that complicated or hard of a place 939 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,640 to get to the tournament necessarily, but it's still an 940 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,800 accomplishment. He's been in the top 75 at Ken 941 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,040 Palm both years. Now that he's been there, his 942 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,720 teams are entertaining, they're fun. 943 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,440 They play entirely different styles from the way that his LSU 944 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,080 teams played, who played somewhat differently from how 945 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,440 his VCU teams played. Clearly a good basketball mind. 946 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:58,480 But man, this guy comes with his own compartment full of baggage. 947 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,760 And it's it's a name I don't know that we would normally see 948 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,160 if IU wasn't in such desperate need of a reset from a program. 949 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:06,960 Perspective. I was reading through his 950 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,240 Wikipedia page that this could again goes to Bob Knight is 951 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,800 underrated like it is now official. 952 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,880 I was reading through his Wikipedia page Will Wade got his 953 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,040 100th win in 2017. I went back and looked like damn 954 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,920 he was 35 years old when he got a hundred wins. 955 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,440 So I was like that was like Knight was young too. 956 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:30,920 No Knight left army in 1971 at 31 years old with 100 and 250 957 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,960 record. But but I will say this, I mean, 958 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,360 again, Bob Knight underrated 100 wins at 31 years old, insane. 959 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:42,440 Will Wade after six years, his record is 109 and 60, which is 960 00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:45,200 very close to where McKnight was one O 250. 961 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,520 He's he's put up a lot of wins and he's shown the ability to 962 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,000 coach to me. The the hinge point is, I mean, 963 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,320 I I know what you know, I read about what he did at LSU. 964 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,760 I know it was, you know him. On, on FBI tapes. 965 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,800 And it's not just like OEP gave players impermissible payments 966 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,080 and like there's, there's bribery, there's, there's all 967 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,880 kinds of like actual illegal stuff, not just the rules stuff. 968 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,240 That's that's a little bit questionable, Not more. 969 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:13,400 It's more than a little bit questionable. 970 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,400 No, no, you're right. So I mean it, it it's almost you 971 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,560 have to discuss like are we going to discuss him as a coach? 972 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,760 Because as a coach there's a lot of things to like there. 973 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,680 The the real question is, again, this comes back to what we'll 974 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,120 talk about the next two candidates with baggage is you 975 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,120 look back at Samson and Samson was a great coach. 976 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,160 Samson has shown he's a great coach. 977 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,680 But we have history of hiring somebody at Indiana who has some 978 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,160 baggage. And the question is, are, are 979 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,400 you, is Indiana going to be OK with that baggage and with some 980 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,080 of, with some of the controversy that comes around with that or 981 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,080 the minute that the water gets turned up 1° in temperature, are 982 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,200 we going to have issues with it? And I think that's the problem 983 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,760 because if you hire a guy like Will Wade, there will be 984 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,200 stories. He might get a little in the 985 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,040 Gray area, whatever that I don't know what it is now with Nil, 986 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,240 but like he'll, he might do that. 987 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:05,520 He he's shown a history and unfortunately Indiana has shown 988 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,080 a history of not reacting well to that. 989 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,120 So Indiana, if they want to go down this road, to me, it's less 990 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,680 about his ability to coach. It's more about Indiana's 991 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,640 ability to deal with a coach who's going to live in the Gray 992 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,680 a little bit more than maybe they want or they say they want. 993 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,800 Yeah. And I mean, ultimately, I think 994 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,200 a lot of it is perceptional. I mean, there, there is an 995 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,360 argument to be made that I, you know, one of our network 996 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,120 members, Kathy Amos made to me a few weeks ago, which is, well, 997 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,720 if a guy cheated knowingly and willfully and then tried to 998 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,760 cover it up, that's not really AI mean. 999 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,360 That's a that might be a character flaw that you don't 1000 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,000 want to overlook in a head coach. 1001 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,160 Like it's one thing to say, well, look, everybody pays 1002 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,880 players and and it's not, you know, it's it's totally 1003 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,360 permissible. Now that's true, But going to 1004 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,920 the level where you're getting show cost penalty slapped on you 1005 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,440 to the degree that Wade did actually was more of a wrist 1006 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,240 slap than perhaps you might think given what you heard about 1007 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,720 Wade. And certainly the rules changes 1008 00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:11,240 have made a big difference. Again, this is one of those guys 1009 00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:17,400 that's really hard to adequately evaluate because the the, the 1010 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,640 other thing, the flip side here, it's like you look at his 1011 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:24,880 performance at LSU and it was good, but it wasn't like right 1012 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,800 dominating. You know, his best season was in 1013 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,640 2019. They went to the Sweet 16. 1014 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:30,760 They were a three seed that year. 1015 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,440 So they performed a seed expectation. 1016 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,240 He had a three-year run where he had amongst the most efficient 1017 00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:38,240 offenses in the country. And then his last year at LSU 1018 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,640 had one of the most efficient defenses in the country, but not 1019 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,720 at the same time. And in fact, his offenses 1020 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,120 outside of that 2019 team were at the expense of his defenses. 1021 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,440 So there is a little bit of like feast or famine aspect to him. 1022 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,120 He's been a lot more consistent in terms of what his teams have 1023 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,520 done at Mcnee's, but he's also point, like literally they 1024 00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:02,280 played A-Team this year who's listed in Kenpom as biblical 1025 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,120 studies. I'm going to call it up here. 1026 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,760 Like you said, they beat them 111 to 57 there. 1027 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,440 I don't know which Bible they're studying. 1028 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,160 I don't know what but that they're listed as biblical. 1029 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,120 Studies and even. Like one of those, when we look 1030 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,680 at Indiana's football records from 19 O 4 is like we play the 1031 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,640 Alumnisus or you're playing like the Indianapolis Armory. 1032 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,480 It's like, I'm not sure if we should count that, frankly. 1033 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,000 You've also got, as we look through here, I mean, they've 1034 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,640 they've had a great band name. They've heard a band that IU 1035 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,640 biblical studies. They're they're on like the 1036 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,800 seventh longest winning streak in the country right now. 1037 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,360 They've won, I think something like, I don't know, 21 or their 1038 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,920 last 22. But the the one thing I'll note 1039 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,720 is that they're winning a bunch of games against teams that are 1040 00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:45,400 significantly worse than they are because they're in the 1041 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,680 Southland Conference. Like the best win they've had 1042 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,760 and since since December was against the team that was ranked 1043 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,920 176th and that was Texas A&M, Corpus Christi. 1044 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,120 Now you can only play the teams that are in your conference. 1045 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:02,080 But much like I feel with Ben McCollum, I just think people 1046 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,760 need to pump the brakes a little bit on the record and maybe 1047 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,040 focus a little bit more on like who they're beating. 1048 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,480 So in this case I don't know. Play the team. 1049 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,840 Letourneau when I when I Googled it, Mary Kay, Letourneau came up 1050 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:19,960 before the university. So, so all of that to say, I am, 1051 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,200 I don't know what I would think if Will Wade was the higher I 1052 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,040 would be. I would be tremendously shocked. 1053 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,360 You want to talk about going entirely outside of what the 1054 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:34,440 normal spectrum of coaching and culture would be for IU. 1055 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,880 This is an example of it and I just look at it from the 1056 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,800 perspective of Will Wade might end up being a really good like 1057 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,480 coach who who spends a ton of time in college. 1058 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,720 This is one of those dice rolls. I would love to hear the 1059 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:52,560 explanation if it was indeed the higher of why he was the higher, 1060 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,600 but I have a hard time seeing him being the higher as a result 1061 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,880 of that. So I would, I would say my 1062 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,520 excitement level would be like a 40 merely because I'm like he's, 1063 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,640 he's clearly done too many good things in his career to discount 1064 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,640 him. But he also doesn't done enough 1065 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,440 great things to make him a shoe in for the IU job. 1066 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,120 And then you Add all the other stuff and it becomes a real 1067 00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,240 issue. Yeah, I'd be A50 just because I 1068 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:17,000 don't. I would be like you, very 1069 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,720 intrigued. And Mike, it would come down to, 1070 00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,560 I think as a basketball coach, I'd be in the 70s or 80s, but 1071 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,840 I'd be really nervous that in two years Indiana would reverse 1072 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,000 course the university and say, oh, we don't like all of this. 1073 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,560 And we'd be kind of doing the 2008 thing all over again. 1074 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,480 I I don't trust Indiana can handle the the heat of somebody 1075 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:41,960 who has baggage like this. For those watching on YouTube or 1076 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,640 Spotify, we just did a complete costume and location change. 1077 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,280 We had to stop the previous recording due to some time 1078 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,080 constraints, but we're back, Scott, we're it's. 1079 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,280 Oscar's weekend. So we're, we're doing different 1080 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:53,920 gowns. We're, we're trying a new movie, 1081 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,200 we're trying to make the best Oscar for best podcast. 1082 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,360 I mean, surely we deserve it at this point. 1083 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,200 I, I would agree. I, I would like to thank the 1084 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,360 Academy. I'd like to thank my agent. 1085 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,760 Anyway, one more, one more candidate to talk about. 1086 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,120 A name that gets bandied about quite a bit within certain 1087 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:16,320 circles and a name that's clearly being pushed for the job 1088 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,840 by agents is Chris Beard. Chris Beard, currently the head 1089 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,720 coach at Ole Miss and of course prior to that had a season at 1090 00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:31,680 Texas, which right at or during or after he was terminated due 1091 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:36,360 to a domestic violence arrest, had a decent amount of success 1092 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,640 at Texas Tech before that. And then of course had started 1093 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,360 at Arkansas Little Rock in 2012. If you look at Beard by the 1094 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:47,720 numbers, what you've got is a coach that's had a laudable 1095 00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,880 amount of on court success over the course of his time. 1096 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,160 Looking at the numbers, Beard, who would be 52, so still 1097 00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:02,440 relatively young at the start of the next basketball season. 6695 1098 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,760 win percentage 661 Wall at Ole Miss 11 and five in the NCAA 1099 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,040 tournament, which includes 2 regular season conference 1100 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:15,280 titles, 6 tournament appearances, one Final Four, two 1101 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,120 Elite Eights and then Four Seasons with a top 15 Ken Palm 1102 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,880 defense. I'm gonna call Ken Pom page up 1103 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,920 here. You know, Beard gets talked 1104 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:30,040 about quite a bit in relation to the IU job Scott, and some of it 1105 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,680 is what's happened on the court with him. 1106 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,680 Obviously took Texas Tech to that national title game where 1107 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,600 they lost in 2019 to Virginia. Had the top Cam Palm defense in 1108 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,440 the country that year. Went to an Elite 8 the previous 1109 00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,920 year. A tie to Bob Knight was if 1110 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:51,240 anybody watched, you know, that weird reality show that they did 1111 00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:54,720 with Texas Tech back, you know, in the last couple of years that 1112 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:58,240 Knight was at Texas Tech, you've seen Chris Beard in that. 1113 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,760 But of course, most people know him from what he's done as a 1114 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,720 head coach since he got to the Division One level in 2016. 1115 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,840 So you know, Beard from the perspective of of being a 1116 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,120 candidate that's had some success. 1117 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,240 You know, that by itself, I think has made him a hot name 1118 00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:20,760 among certain circles. And then for many people, they 1119 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:25,160 see the the Bob Knight influence or they they see some kind of a 1120 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,680 seed in that Beard about a month ago, kind of out of the blue 1121 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,720 drops a Bob Knight reference on a national broadcast. 1122 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,960 You know, and we've heard quite a bit from reporters both on and 1123 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,840 off the record who have said, like Beard is being actively and 1124 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,600 very aggressively pushed for the job. 1125 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,600 It's clearly a job he wants. But Scott, this is also a 1126 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:49,120 gentleman who lost his job at Texas because of the 1127 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,160 aforementioned arrest for domestic violence complaint, 1128 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,840 ultimately was not charged. But as anybody who understands 1129 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,640 the criminal justice system understands, that's that's not 1130 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,600 at all unusual when it comes to domestic violence situations. 1131 00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:07,760 Was hired after a year out of coaching at Ole Miss and has 1132 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,040 been impressive in terms of getting Ole Miss elevated to a 1133 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,640 level where they're competitive for the NCAA Tournament this 1134 00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,160 year. But with Beard, there's just a 1135 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,160 big obstacle that people should be focusing on. 1136 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,960 And I've seen a lot of people try to brush off the domestic 1137 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,680 violence arrest either through saying, well, you know, he 1138 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,720 wasn't charged so therefore you can't hold that against him, or, 1139 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,360 hey, everybody makes mistakes. I've heard that one a lot, which 1140 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,280 is a bizarre argument as far as I'm concerned, Scott, my big 1141 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:40,720 thing is like IU is at a juncture right now where they 1142 00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:43,160 have to make the right hire. They have to make a hire that 1143 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,640 will stabilize the program, can be built around, can get 1144 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,000 positive momentum going forward. There's more to that than just 1145 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,760 being a good on court coach. And my concern that, you know, a 1146 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,840 lot of people's fervor around Beard is kind of ignoring all 1147 00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,520 the other issues that would make this a very dangerous hire for 1148 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,240 Indiana. And you know, that's, that's 1149 00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,200 even assuming that you don't find a domestic violence arrest 1150 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,640 disqualifying, which I personally do in cases like 1151 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,120 this. It's it's just, it's one of 1152 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,400 those deals where the the risk does not justify whatever reward 1153 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,080 because the risk is almost unknowable. 1154 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,440 Yeah, I mean, you, you, you look at all the other candidates that 1155 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,840 we've talked about that have some kind of baggage. 1156 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,280 It's just running afoul of the rules of the game or pushing too 1157 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,360 hard or cheating. This is this is a real, a real 1158 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,600 arrest, like, like you've done a real crime, which, you know, 1159 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,120 it's funny, all the other people you'll text me like, you know, 1160 00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,160 Wade Collins, here's what we're talking about that next time. 1161 00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,560 This is the only one that you and I have kind of pushed off 1162 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,200 because we're not quite sure how to talk about it. 1163 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,520 We've talked about at length how to do this. 1164 00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,160 We have recorded this before. And imagine doing this kind of 1165 00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,320 tiptoeing around this for multiple seasons as your coach. 1166 00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,520 I'm I, I hear what you're saying. 1167 00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,320 I agree with him. I'm not comfortable talking 1168 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,560 about I'm not a I don't don't, you know, don't condone what 1169 00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,240 happened. I don't know what happened, but 1170 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,480 it's like this is a very serious allegation. 1171 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,560 It's a very serious crime. It it's something that I don't 1172 00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,400 feel comfortable talking about. Like I don't want to be talking 1173 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,600 about this with my basketball program for years. 1174 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,880 And, you know, we we had talked before this about, you know, 1175 00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,680 like the redemptive arc. You know, you got to give 1176 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,520 somebody a second chance, which I agree with. 1177 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,560 But as you said, it's like he has a second chance. 1178 00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,640 He's coaching in the SEC, like he has a job. 1179 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,560 He's coaching one of the two best conferences. 1180 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,720 It. It's one of those where if 1181 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,760 another story pops up at any point during his coaching 1182 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,480 tenure, it it could all fall apart again. 1183 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,400 And is that really a risk you want to take, as you said, at a 1184 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,600 very important juncture? And the the last thing I'll say 1185 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:49,120 is the connection point. I'm also tired of the connection 1186 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,120 points tonight and has to be somebody from the play. 1187 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,920 We're done that we did that with Woodson, but this connection 1188 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,760 point is so minor. Like yes, he coached with 1189 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,760 Knight. That was when Knight was in 1190 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,200 jilted ex-girlfriend. Like he wouldn't wear this is 1191 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,160 the most comfortable red sweater I've worn in years. 1192 00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:04,640 I mean he hated IU at that point. 1193 00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,360 Wasn't like he was glowingly telling Chris beard stories 1194 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,320 about assembly. Come sit up, come sit and let me 1195 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,160 tell you about assembly hall and how great the pretty were 1196 00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,280 happening. He hated IU when he was at Texas 1197 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:14,960 Tech. I'm not sure he ever got over 1198 00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:16,960 it. And outside of that, this is 1199 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,920 Chris Beard is a guy who who has built his bones recruiting, 1200 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,600 coaching in Texas and the Southeast. 1201 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,440 If if he had not coached under Bob Knight that there'd be no 1202 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,920 point where you'd be like, this is a real connection point to a 1203 00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,640 guy who can cut it in the Midwest. 1204 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,840 Yeah, I mean, and look, I think on the Knight front, I've got 1205 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,200 this on pretty good authority. Like they may not be as close as 1206 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,280 perceived. I think it would be the way that 1207 00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,120 I would put it. So I think a lot of people miss 1208 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,440 misidentify that connection a little bit. 1209 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,560 I look, I, I look at it like this, this is a coach who 1210 00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,520 clearly can coach at a top level, but clearly has had some 1211 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,600 issues that have made him not attractive. 1212 00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,840 Because look, it was at the Ole Miss last year. 1213 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,160 Everybody was like, who's who's going to take the chance of 1214 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,880 hiring Chris Beard and will it go off the rails? 1215 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,480 So they hire him at Ole Miss. He coaches there for a season. 1216 01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,000 He's clearly very available to go somewhere else. 1217 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,920 This is not too far off from Bob Huggins. 1218 01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,040 You know, post DUI arrest, the first time getting hired at 1219 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,840 Kansas State and then trying to bounce after a year and ends up 1220 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,920 bouncing after a year to go back to West Virginia. 1221 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:32,560 But I'll note that last cycle, two programs that are very much 1222 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,960 culturally connected to Indiana had openings. 1223 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,440 Louisville had an opening, chose not to hire Chris Beard. 1224 01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,160 You know, like he was very available at that point. 1225 01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,400 They end up going with Pat Kelsey, a a relatively little 1226 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,800 known coach at the College of Charleston. 1227 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,040 Instead of hiring Chris Beard, Kentucky opens up Does Kentucky 1228 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,800 hire Chris Beard given. Program that's that's more 1229 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,760 willing to play in some of these areas if you like in Indiana. 1230 01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,160 Kentucky does not hire him and ends up going in entirely 1231 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,200 different directions with the person that they're trying to 1232 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,360 bring in. Arkansas had an opening. 1233 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,000 Did they go try to get Chris Beard? 1234 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,120 No. So point being, several pedigree 1235 01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:14,320 programs, programs that have have won national titles, you 1236 01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,520 know, decided that this was not the right move for them. 1237 01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,840 So I look at Indiana and Indiana being I think in a more 1238 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,880 precarious spot in some ways than maybe not Louisville, but 1239 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,320 certainly the other two programs were at the time of their hires. 1240 01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,000 This just feels like an unnecessary risk for a coach 1241 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,840 that while he's had quite an impressive run, is not I don't 1242 01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,520 there's no national title. And you know, you're talking 1243 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,840 about very good, but not consistently great across both 1244 01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,600 offense and defence performances. 1245 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,840 And I I would even say I'm going to call something up here, 1246 01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,160 Scott, for those people who are watching on YouTube and Spotify. 1247 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,040 But if you're not watching, I'll read it off. 1248 01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,400 I've got this this thing up that says, you know, it's coaching 1249 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,160 notes and it's a it's a blind resume comparison between two 1250 01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,280 coaches. Coach a I'll just give it away. 1251 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,280 Is Chris Beard 695 winning percentage over the last eight 1252 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,800 seasons, two regular season titles, 6 tournament 1253 01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,440 appearances, one Final four two Elite Eights, Four Seasons with 1254 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:20,920 a camp on top 15 defense. Coach B same eight years, 753 1255 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,960 win percentage, three regular season conference titles, 6 1256 01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:28,520 tournament appearances, a final 42 Sweet sixteens five seasons 1257 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:34,640 with a Ken Pomp top 15 defense. And I'll note this, Coach B also 1258 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,920 had probably their best season as a, as, as a head coach of 1259 01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,320 their current institution wiped out by COVID. 1260 01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,440 You know, this was the season where this person's team was 1261 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,360 going to be a two seed. They were in the top 10 of 1262 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,320 Kenpom. We never actually got to see 1263 01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,520 that team perform. Coach A, as I mentioned, is 1264 01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,440 Chris Beard. Coach B is not is not Archie 1265 01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:56,240 Miller. I know. 1266 01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,680 That. He is not Chris Collins. 1267 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,800 It's not Will Wade, it's Brian Dutcher of San Diego State, the 1268 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,440 the the long time assistant for Steve Fisher, who of course, as 1269 01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,640 we talked about, took his team to the national title game. 1270 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,680 They lost, you know, pretty brutally to UConn. 1271 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,680 But is Matt Painter and Brian Dutcher? 1272 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:16,480 There you go. It's like a tie. 1273 01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:20,080 Love Midwest guys is what I but you know, this is where I asked 1274 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,440 myself with the beard thing, like everybody's like, well, 1275 01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:23,640 let's just look at the basketball. 1276 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,560 It's like you can't just look at the basketball because you just 1277 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,120 look at the basketball. His resume is pretty good, but 1278 01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,520 there's other coaches that have equal or superior resumes. 1279 01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:36,040 So that's to me, not the reason why you point to this guy and 1280 01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,680 say he's clearly the choice. Oh well, he took a team to a 1281 01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,920 final four. Well, who else? 1282 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,120 Recently has taken teams to Final Fours. 1283 01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,840 I mean, Kevin Keats at North Carolina State just took his 1284 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,400 team to a Final Four. I just mentioned Brian Dutcher 1285 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,920 who took San Diego State to the Final Four, which I would 1286 01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,520 consider to be a bigger accomplishment than taking Texas 1287 01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,680 Tech Hubert Davis took his team to the title game. 1288 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,720 Mick Cronin, who we've already talked about. 1289 01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,600 I'm sorry, Porter Moser, the. Oklahoma coach who when he was 1290 01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:08,720 at Loyola. You reverse engineer what you 1291 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,080 what you've done before. Going through the top coaches 1292 01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,320 right now. How many of them took a team to 1293 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,200 a Final Four before their first job? 1294 01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,600 Like Nate Oates hadn't, Tommy Lloyd hadn't. 1295 01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:19,400 I guess Tommy Lloyd still hasn't. 1296 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,240 But I mean, like, but you go through that list, a lot of 1297 01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,920 coaches that are really good right now never took a team to a 1298 01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,040 Final Four until they did it with the place they're at now. 1299 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,320 Yeah. So look, when you get down to 1300 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,520 it, I'm going to actually call Dutcher stats up for those 1301 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,680 people who haven't seen them because this is not a guy who I 1302 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,400 think is a reasonable candidate. It's a shame though, because I 1303 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,680 mean, he's had tremendous success at San Diego State. 1304 01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,920 He's had look at all these top 10 defenses he's had offense 1305 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,240 hasn't been quite as good in most years, but that you know, 1306 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,360 they had that 2020 year where they had both of them going at 1307 01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,280 the top 15 rate. I'll always wonder if that team 1308 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,960 might have had a chance to win a national title in the tournament 1309 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,560 that year. So my point being, like there 1310 01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,360 are other coaches out there who have similar resumes who don't 1311 01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,320 have the baggage. And even if you want for 1312 01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:09,880 whatever reason to take the approach that, well, you know, 1313 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,600 whatever, whatever sins were committed were paid for, I 1314 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,400 don't, I don't think you can put aside the fact that that 1315 01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,400 situation occurred. You've got a lot of industry 1316 01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:24,560 people who are very skeptical that this guy is going to be 1317 01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,120 able to sustain himself. This is just one of those hires 1318 01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,480 where I know the guy you can can take the risk, nor should they 1319 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,480 because there are certain things, as you mentioned, Scott, 1320 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,960 but fall beyond the level of, oh, you cheated with the 1321 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,600 recruits or this or that. This falls beyond that as far as 1322 01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,160 I'm concerned. And normally we do our our zero 1323 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,520 to 100 rating on this. And it's like, I don't know that 1324 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,200 I could ever feel good about Chris Beard being hired as a 1325 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:52,520 head coach because of what's happened up to this point. 1326 01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:57,960 And that's just I, I don't think Indiana needs to put itself in a 1327 01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,720 position where this is the direction that they go. 1328 01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,880 It's, it's, this is both too critical to hire and I just 1329 01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,040 don't think this is a person who has demonstrated over a long 1330 01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,400 enough period of time that they can keep it together under the 1331 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,920 spotlight. Because that's exactly as much 1332 01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,680 as we've heard talk about fishbowl and things like that. 1333 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,040 This is not the place to go and like live out a quiet coaching 1334 01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:24,200 life the rest of your time. It would be almost impossible to 1335 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,280 get excited about this hire because in the back of your 1336 01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,200 head, A you just hired a guy that got arrested on ADV 1337 01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,960 complaint, whether or not he was charged. 1338 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,640 And B, in the back of your head like this is A, a time bomb 1339 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,560 waiting to go off. Like something is going to 1340 01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,520 happen that that is going to put Indiana basketball and the 1341 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,640 athletic department in a really bad situation. 1342 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,760 Agree with all of that. I would also say, you know, for 1343 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:49,800 those who are saying just just focus on the basketball, let's 1344 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,200 focus on that. It's like, all right, that, but 1345 01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,160 that's in a vacuum because I get you teach media. 1346 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,720 If you were there at that first press conference, the third 1347 01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,960 question you asked Olson is how did you you know, what are your 1348 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,560 thoughts about the domestic assault charges and how did you 1349 01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,120 put those to rest? I mean, like it's going to be a 1350 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:07,400 question of the press conference like it's just it is. 1351 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:12,360 And you know, the other thing that I will say is it's not, 1352 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,320 it's, it's only, it's only been 2 1/2 years since that happened. 1353 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,240 It's very, very recent. It's not that it's better to 1354 01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:23,080 happen before, but at least if it was like 15 years ago, it's 1355 01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,000 like, all right, that was 15 years ago. 1356 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,480 It's been a lot of time past. Like we, we know what happened. 1357 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,240 We, you know, you've, you've demonstrated a long period of 1358 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,200 time. And again, this is just Indiana 1359 01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:34,440 is a program that doesn't like to play in the Gray. 1360 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,240 This is you're, you're like you said, you're willingly putting 1361 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,400 yourself in the in the Gray in a very important hire. 1362 01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:47,080 And if things go wrong or if more things come out, even if 1363 01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,760 they're alleged, you're probably in a tearing it down to the 1364 01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,440 studs situation. Again, like, like this is the 1365 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,440 one that we've talked about. Every other coach we've talked 1366 01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,760 about, like whether it's I keep joking about Chris Collins, but 1367 01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:00,880 you know, Chris Collins or any of these other guys there, 1368 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,000 there's a bad scenario where ends up being like Archie again, 1369 01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:04,680 like, I mean, four years didn't work out. 1370 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,200 This is the only one we've talked about where there really 1371 01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:12,760 is kind of a, you know, end of Samson era possibility there. 1372 01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:17,560 And it's like, is, is the reward really worth that risk? 1373 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:22,200 Yeah. So that's yeah, I think, I think 1374 01:08:22,359 --> 01:08:24,640 you know about all that you can say on the topic. 1375 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,439 And and again, I just from knowing what I know and who I 1376 01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,040 know at IU and the way that this institution is going, a lot of 1377 01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,399 the moral high ground stuff on recruiting and paying players, 1378 01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:37,800 like that's gone. Like all that's, you know, that 1379 01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,359 era is over. There are certain things that go 1380 01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:42,920 well beyond that. I just think the beard situation 1381 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,920 falls right into that category. So anyway, before we wrap up 1382 01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,840 some real quick news, there was some chatter. 1383 01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:51,520 It was not chatter. It's actually like printed 1384 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,840 reports from the Des Moines Register that TJ Otzelberger has 1385 01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,319 signed the contract extension, which a lot of people 1386 01:08:57,319 --> 01:08:59,520 immediately jumped at and said, well, he's off the hot board. 1387 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,040 Whether or not Otzelberger is actually off the hot board or 1388 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,720 not, this signed contract extension doesn't really change 1389 01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,560 anything that we talked about the last time. 1390 01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,600 You know, we did get confirmation that they did drop 1391 01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,920 his buy out from 20 or so million to $4 million. 1392 01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,000 It actually drops to two of their athletic director leads, 1393 01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:21,279 which I don't think is going to happen. 1394 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,760 So a lot of the talk about Otzel Berger was predicated on the 1395 01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:28,080 idea that this extension had been signed. 1396 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,560 He didn't just sign it. It just got publicly released 1397 01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,920 through open records request, which is why you're now getting 1398 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,200 this information. So it actually kind of confirms 1399 01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,920 the idea that at least from a financial perspective, 1400 01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,399 Otzelberger would be a viable candidate for Indiana to go 1401 01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:44,080 after. Whether or not he's the guy they 1402 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:45,920 end up hiring don't know, but that's. 1403 01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,319 Having this much time, it is turning into where we're 1404 01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:53,760 becoming like the LA of the 90s in the NFL, where everybody's 1405 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,680 just using us as leverage to get a better deal. 1406 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,720 Like if you're the coaches, you might need to come together your 1407 01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,520 next meeting. Like, hey, right, you know, 1408 01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:00,880 Kansas, you guys are having trouble with self. 1409 01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:02,480 Can you fire him in like February? 1410 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,480 It's just gives us a long. This is a nice three months to 1411 01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:08,040 just everybody can renegotiate their contracts and then 1412 01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:10,840 somebody can go take that job and we'll just UCLA, you guys 1413 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,680 are up next. Like everyone just it's like 1414 01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,760 it's like Hard Knocks. Everyone takes a shot at it. 1415 01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,160 Everyone gets a three month period. 1416 01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,680 One of the top schools. But no, it's it's we will hire a 1417 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,440 coach, but I think that, you know, we we almost need to bet 1418 01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:26,320 the over under on the number of coaches that renegotiate their 1419 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,520 own deals when this is done. I mean, we're already at 2 1420 01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:30,840 again. The old sport thing probably 1421 01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,320 happened maybe before this, but. Just. 1422 01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:35,640 For fun we'll have him. We have Dusty May there might be 1423 01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:37,280 another one. Like we're going to get 3 or 4 1424 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,560 coaches who just get to renegotiate based on this 1425 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,840 process being so long. This is the problem with when 1426 01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,560 did something get signed versus when did something get publicly 1427 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,560 made available. And that's people you see now 1428 01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:52,080 Gene Hackman. I mean, people, people miss this 1429 01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:54,920 stuff all the time or they misinterpret when news comes out 1430 01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,240 and what it means. And so Gene happen joke, but 1431 01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,360 just it was that was terrible. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna 1432 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,880 acknowledge that. Geez, but that that's I think 1433 01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:04,320 important for people to keep in mind. 1434 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,800 And and again, when we were talking about Olsenberger, it 1435 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,480 was, it was with the idea that the buyout had become more 1436 01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:13,280 reasonable. So there'll be some interesting 1437 01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,120 things I'm sure that'll pop up. But again, like you said, Scott, 1438 01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,920 it seems. Outside like I. 1439 01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,240 Use being used as leverage for all of these people. 1440 01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,240 The only one we really know about it was Dusty May because 1441 01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,800 that one was signed at some point in the last couple of 1442 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,560 weeks. But even that does not look like 1443 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:33,120 a contract. That is, I mean, it wasn't like 1444 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,880 that buyout became unreasonable. That buyout went to seven and a 1445 01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,880 half million dollars. Credit you, this is your thing 1446 01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,240 too. It's like I'm I'm joking about 1447 01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:42,400 the buyout. There will be other buyouts 1448 01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,120 happening. That doesn't mean that the 1449 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,880 person said no to IU. It just means that they they 1450 01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,160 noticed a leverageable situation situation and they leverage it 1451 01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:52,080 for themselves. Which doesn't mean any of these 1452 01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,760 people are saying no to IU. They're just saying yes to more 1453 01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,600 money and then possibly could also be saying yes to IUI. 1454 01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,920 Mean we don't like, we don't know. 1455 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,000 No, it's just like I, I get money, my former institution 1456 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:05,480 gets money, everybody gets money. 1457 01:12:05,480 --> 01:12:06,360 It's great. Yeah. 1458 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:08,400 Yeah. Anyway, All right, we'll we'll 1459 01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,080 go ahead and wrap things up as we will have another game coming 1460 01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:13,800 up tonight, Indiana taking on Washington. 1461 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,480 We'll be back next day or two. Talk about that game. 1462 01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:19,520 Have some bracketology updates for you candidates and more 1463 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,200 candidates coming up for Scott. I'm Galen. 1464 01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:23,640 This is Crimson Cast. We'll catch you folks. 1465 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,320 On the flip side, bring back the bison. 1466 01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:27,880 Stay never daunted. So everybody.