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You're listening to the back 
home network presented by home 

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field apparel. 
My folks, welcome back to 

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Crimson cast, excited to have 
Ryan on for two reasons. 

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First off, I love talking to him
at the end sees the season. 

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The second thing is Is you don't
have the joy yet of having a 

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wife yet unless you did 
something, I didn't know Ryan. 

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But um, my wife does not listen 
to the Pod. 

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Very rarely gives me feedback 
stops laughing at my jokes as 

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you do 15 years in the marriage,
but the one thing she does love 

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is when I was telling her about 
our pods. 

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And I'm like this, a to copilot,
no pilot pod. 

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And she's like, that's funny. 
So I bring you the to copilot. 

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No pilot pod Ryman. 
How you doing? 

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Good man. 
It's been a while. 

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So I was, I will say, Scott, I'm
angry at you for her. 

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Popping out as soon as the game 
was over against Purdue this 

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year. 
So you couldn't come and meet us

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once again proving that the two 
of us cannot be in the same 

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building. 
At the same time it would cause 

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a tear in the space-time 
Continuum. 

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I don't know but we did not yet 
meet in person and that better 

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change. 
Next time, worked out. 

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Yeah, pick a take a game. 
Where it's not like I'm not 

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there three hours early and I'm 
with you, it's kids. 

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I wanted to get home and see the
kids. 

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I've been gone all day. 
But I we will blame it on me 

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this year. 
Well, blame it on you the year 

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before. 
And then next year, we can get 

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it next year we can blame it on.
One of the transfers are 100%, 

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100% Fair. 
Let's do it. 

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Do you? 
I thought I'd offer you this. 

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Do you want to your you like me 
sometimes just sit back and we 

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get to listen to Galen or Jared.
Do the home-field promo. 

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You want to run the home field 
promo? 

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I'm you've heard it like a 
million times. 

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Like do you want to go and just 
talk about hope-filled and say 

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home for your first order. 15% 
off Scott. 

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I am a guest here. 
I think. 

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Your responsibilities, my 
friend. 

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I'm just going to avoid it at 
all costs at a time. 

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I can't it's all you buddy, but 
I will keep it short, but I hope

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field apparel as you may know, 
Ryan obviously doesn't but they 

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are a proud sponsor of the back 
home, network of which Crimson 

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Castle has a happy participant 
of, but no, check them out. 

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They have bam shirts for 
everything. 

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I will say this, that my bracket
pool, which I've been doing for 

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25 years, this is the first year
where we may have. 

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Nobody He picked the winner. 
Like nobody picked the right 

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school. 
I have I let kids join in just 

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for fun. 
My buddy's. 

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Six-year-old had Yukon to make 
to win it all. 

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He's the only person left in our
pool who can win, but my other 

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buddy has first and second 
locked up. 

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If Miami beats Yukon, he wins 
both spots gets like 850 bucks. 

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So I was like telling him 
sitting in, you know, an update 

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to the to the group. 
I was like, you got, he's 

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wenzels got a route for Miami 
and I sent him a link to home 

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field like You go, you can find 
five or ten. 

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Great Miami shirts, go for it. 
So home field has every shirt. 

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You could possibly imagine check
it out promo. 

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Code home for 50 percent off 
your first purchase that is 

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home-field apparel where one for
the team as they say. 

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So Ryan, what's up? 
I'm going to start big and we'll

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just go here. 
Like, I mean, give me your, we 

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have like a week to kind of 
decompress. 

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We can talk about the Miami game
if you want. 

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But I'm just, I'm curious. 
You're like, overall thoughts of

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how do you process this season? 
What are you going to remember? 

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And what are your thoughts from 
the 20:22 20:23 season. 

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Yeah you know there are a lot of
high points this season. 

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I will say and I thought that 
the team came together down the 

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stretch. 
You know there's that you know 

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stretch for they won with like 
seven of eight or something. 

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It would not really down the 
stretch but sort of towards the 

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end of the season, where they 
really played some really good 

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basketball and you had hurt. 
You fee, know in Jackson Davis, 

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both playing really well, and 
then if you know kind of hit a 

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wall, There Was, You Know, One 
game on one game off. 

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Off those high points are what 
I'm going to. 

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Remember, I think the two wins 
over Purdue were really the high

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point. 
If you want to pick one out, I 

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thought they played really well 
against Kent State but it's 

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still Kent State. 
No matter how good we thought 

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they were. 
It's still Kent State. 

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But overall, when I look at it, 
I think it assembly call. 

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We set them up as I successful 
season would be finishing in the

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top for the Big Ten. 
That's always your goal. 

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I think, is top for the Big Ten 
if you went well and sometimes 

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it depends on your schedule, 
what your matchups are, you 

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know, and sometimes it's bad 
luck. 

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I think there's some of that 
this year. 

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They had a really tough schedule
in the Big Ten, whereas I 

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thought pretty you got off 
pretty easy. 

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So, top four in the Big Ten, 
they accomplish that, and we 

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said that they should reach the 
sweet 16 and they did not. 

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And yes, they lost the team that
went to the final four in Miami.

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But Didn't play particularly 
well in that game. 

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And they had some real failings 
where I thought there was room 

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to really win that game and take
advantage of it and so they fell

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short there. 
So it's a mixed bag for me. 

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And the one reason that it is 
disappointing to me is the 

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opportunity. 
They had with the players they 

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have, and the fall off, that is 
coming for next year and I don't

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know, we don't know what's going
to happen. 

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The transfer portal, but a lot 
of very key players. 

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To be gone and from Indiana. 
And so this was the year. 

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They really had to do something 
to make a statement to say this 

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program is where it is and you 
didn't get to the second weekend

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of the NCAA tournament. 
And so, that's the 

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disappointment I have. 
You had a, yeah, did 

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All-American, all time player, 
and you had a first-round pick 

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at point guard and, and covering
the two most important positions

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arguably on the court. 
You had Stellar players that 

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could go toe-to-toe. 
With any other twosome in the 

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country and you didn't get out 
of the first weekend. 

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So that's disappointing. 
And I think Mike wasn't has a 

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lot of work to do. 
I think his system needs a lot 

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of tweaks, but there were high 
points this year, that you want 

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that all, look back at and be 
happy with. 

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And so it is it's a mixed bag 
for me and, you know, hoping 

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that we get some good news over 
the next couple weeks in the, in

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the transfer portal, pretty much
it. 

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So I'm looking at it. 
Yeah, we'll get to next II would

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disagree with you, on, where I 
think the future is what we can 

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get to that. 
I agree with a lot. 

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Of what you'd like. 
That's that's very much my feel 

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for this season as well. 
Like it was a good year. 

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I, what I've been kind of 
wrestling with. 

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And I wanted to chat with you 
about, is I hate excuses because

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it over time, you know, the 
Rocks get you know, they get 

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sand it off and you kind of 
forget all the particularities 

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look back and it's like, man, 
Archie had a bad for years like,

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well, you know, his first year, 
Geron Davis got injured. 

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Like no one, nobody remembers 
that and it really doesn't 

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totally matter because it wasn't
like, the Archie experience is 

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like was awesome, had that even 
healthy But you kind of just you

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know people will slowly over 
time. 

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Forget that you know, Romeo 
Langford wasn't really healthy. 

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I'm not here to be an Archie 
apologist. 

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But like, what I'm wrestling 
with is, I agree with everything

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you said about this season and 
it's, it was a good season. 

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There's a bit of disappointment 
for all the reasons you 

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mentioned. 
I'm having a hard time 

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grappling, like, how do I fit in
the Xavier Johnson injury to 

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this team? 
Because on one hand I agree with

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what I said that you'll look 
back and 10 12 years and you 

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know by kids and their kids not 
going to look back on. 

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A season with fondness but I'll 
be like, oh that's he wants it. 

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You know, that was an okay like 
that wasn't a great year in 

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Indiana, basketball history but 
having just lived through it. 

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You know, you're looking at 
Xavier Johnson is you know, 

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easily the second most important
person coming in this year and 

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then with hoods rafita moving 
up, probably was the third most 

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important person on this team 
and I truly believe his injury 

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put Hood Shafi know in a 
position where he was playing 

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out of position the entire year 
where he really should have been

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a two guard. 
You were Asking him to 

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distribute the ball and be the 
lead score and be the lead 

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defensive player on the other 
teams guard. 

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You're asking, it's a ton of 
him, I think it, it Woodson's 

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defensive scheme, was built 
around having a guy like Xavier 

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at the point to do that and 
everything changed. 

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And so I'm that's what I'm kind 
of grappling with. 

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I look at this season. 
As I do think I would have loved

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to have seen what Xavier here 
would have done for this team 

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the entire year. 
But also, you know, it is what 

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it is, and every team has 
injuries and you. 

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It just say, well, you know, put
up a banner because, you know, 

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Championship without Xavier, so,
that's kind of what I'm Restless

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wrestling with. 
But I was looking back with last

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15-20 years, I'm not sure if 
there is an injury, like Mo 

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Creek was a big injury but that 
team wasn't really doing 

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anything. 
Like I don't know if there's an 

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in a year where an injury hurt. 
A team more than 4 IU then 

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Xavier this year. 
Yeah, the only one I can think 

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of is maybe OG and Adobe because
of how. 

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Yeah, he was gonna be to that 
team, but I don't think it's 

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more important that what Xavier 
was Was. 

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So this is what I'll say about. 
The Xavier Johnson is your first

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of all, the biggest thing that 
Xavier Johnson, you know, you 

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talk about. 
You're right about geology know,

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maybe having to be thrust into a
point guard role to quickly and,

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and all that. 
I thought I thought he worked 

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his way into it. 
It still felt like there were 

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times they needed another ball 
handler. 

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A lot of times actually. 
Here's what I'll say about Davey

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Johnson. 
The biggest thing that was 

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missing when he went out. 
Injured was on-ball defense. 

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That was the biggest thing that 
was missing. 

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They got absolutely gutted by 
straight line drives from a lot 

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of smaller guards, and you saw 
it against Northwestern, you saw

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it against Iowa, I mean Penn 
State not as much but you did 

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see a lot of slow rotations and 
things like that and in jail who

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Cioppino was a very good 
Defender. 

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Very physical, his great size, 
but there were times that use a 

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fresh When he would get beat. 
And so I think the defense is 

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the biggest thing that suffered 
was savior Johnson out and you 

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see it from the defensive 
metrics that were better last 

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year than they were this year. 
It's because they had a ball 

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stopper. 
I will also say this Avery 

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Johnson, got injured in 
December. 

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You had a long time to adjust to
his inquiry fair. 

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And you had a long time to 
develop a bench. 

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You had a long time to develop a
secondary ball handler and they 

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didn't really do it. 
And and so this wasn't like an 

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injury. 
All the Big Ten season that, you

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know, you were relying on 
somebody, you got into a rhythm 

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and boom, he's gone. 
This was a very early injury and

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it's the reason he'll be able to
likely come back next year. 

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So, that's what I say to that. 
I mean, it's not incorrect if 

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they had Xavier Johnson, they're
a better team. 

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There's no question about that. 
And I do give a little leeway 

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for that i-it's, probably adds, 
two more, big ten wins. 

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And I think they may be 3 
because I think they play 

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Northwestern much better. 
And then you throw in maybe one 

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win against Iowa, something like
that. 

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But also and also I think that 
they needed him against Miami 

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quite frankly. 
So I do give a little Grace for 

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that. 
But at the same time, you know, 

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there was a lot of time for 
somebody else to develop and 

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Step Off the Bench and that 
didn't that never really 

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00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,500
happened. 
And we got into this weird area 

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where I guess Trea Galloway 
starting you know and you know 

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it wasn't like it wasn't like 
any was in and out and and yeah.

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Yeah, it just never felt 
comfortable with, with the depth

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that they had that they could 
develop and bring somebody on. 

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You talk about the no, I agree. 
And you're dead-on with, like it

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happened in December and that's,
that's why I'm like wrestling 

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with it. 
But yeah, of course, the funny 

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thing with the dep is I'm as 
guilty of this as anybody, but I

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think of this, like, you guys do
a lot more preview stuff on 

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assembly calls, you get in depth
and it I just want to, I want 

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everyone to remember this right 
now because like we get in this 

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cycle and again, I am not immune
to it. 

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Like, we looked at Jordan 
Geronimo having like, you know, 

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28 good minutes at the end of 
March last year. 

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And it's like, all right, so 
we'll project him. 

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It kind of like the old depot 
level. 

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Yes, we have Geronimo, like you,
you gotta give your auto as 

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medicine that you go to this 
year. 

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And it's like, he's not even 
around and it's like, you're 

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seeing similar things with Caleb
Banks. 

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Now not saying happy great. 
But it's like guys got a lot of 

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energy. 
It's like will see. 

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And then every year in October 
it's like we have when we talk 

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about it, it's like, man, what 
are we going to find minutes for

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all these guys? 
We gotta get. 

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You know, and then it's like you
get to March and it's like can 

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we just get eight good minutes 
at it tomorrow. 

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Beige like it's so funny. 
How that psycho happens every 

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year and just I want everyone to
remember the other folk draft 

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but it CFL draft. 
Everybody's takes their team had

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00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:27,900
the best draft ever eat at the 
NFL dries as somebody who writes

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00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:30,600
about sports for a living, we 
will do draft reviews and I'll 

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be like, yeah, these teams 
didn't nail it. 

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00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:35,400
I hear from everybody, it's very
obvious, could be very obvious. 

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They had a bad draft was like, 
what are you talking about? 

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This guy was steal, he's gonna 
start right away, and it's like,

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Early played on his college 
team, what are you talking 

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about? 
You know, I mean it's but I will

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sit with Geronimo. 
You mention him and it's very 

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00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:48,900
funny. 
He had those two games in the 

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middle of the Season where he 
was phenomenal. 

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It was Wisconsin and Illinois 
and at Illinois back-to-back in 

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a double-double 12 and 11 
against Wisconsin that had 13 

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points and eight rebounds 
against Illinois and then he got

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hurt and you basically never 
heard from him again and but 

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yeah, I you're right. 
I think that we do over value, 

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they play some bad. 
Teams and you overvalue, the 

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performances going into the 
season. 

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You hear about how great 
everybody is. 

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And you know how oh, this guy's 
worked out over the offseason. 

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He's bigger, he's stronger, he's
faster. 

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He's he's making threes and then
they never shooting at. 

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We heard about trade, Trace 
Jackson. 

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Davis is jump shot every 
offseason. 

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You heard about greatest jump. 
Shot was and then and it is 

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right hand. 
That was the other thing 

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throughout his career. 
The right hands. 

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Looking good man. 
Right. 

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And some good. 
The only year we didn't hear 

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about the right hand was 
entering his senior year and 

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00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,200
this year he actually had And 
and and so, you know, you get 

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00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,300
fed stuff from these guys and 
some of it is you're trying to 

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00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:50,300
pump the guys on your team up. 
Some of it is, hey, in practice,

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00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,900
it's much different than a game.
I always tell people that, you 

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know, you hear it. 
A lot from coaches like, hey, 

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these guys when they, when they 
practice will do play well, to 

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00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,700
get them actually better, you 
have to play them in games, no 

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00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:07,400
matter how hard it hurts. 
You gotta play in games and 

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00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,700
these guys got some run early in
the season. 

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00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,800
And, and then that kind of fell 
off. 

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00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,400
And that happens. 
When you play tough games when 

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you play Kansas, we play 
Arizona. 

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00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,800
When you, when you have tough 
games lined up that are swing 

296
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,300
games for you as far as seating 
and things like that, go, you 

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00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,500
need to play your good players. 
And so a lot of these guys, like

298
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:27,000
Caleb Banks. 
Didn't get as much big as many 

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00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,700
minutes as he needed to get this
year. 

300
00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:30,200
I don't think I think that was a
failing. 

301
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,400
I think that they consistently. 
Yeah. 

302
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,200
Left him on the bench because I 
think he's gonna be very 

303
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,700
important moving forward. 
So it's yeah. 

304
00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:40,200
It's this weird balance of you 
want them to develop the bench, 

305
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,100
but the same. 
You want to win games but at the

306
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:45,100
same time you risk that if you 
play those younger guys and all 

307
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:47,200
that. 
So I do think that was a failing

308
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,900
this year though was was the 
bench development. 

309
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:54,500
We'll see if those guys develop 
in the offseason. 

310
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,100
You mentioned Trace that, you 
know, working on that right 

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00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:00,300
hand. 
That's the other thing I want to

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00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:02,000
ask, like, you know, where do 
you fit Trace in the Legacy. 

313
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,300
But I will start off with this 
that. 

314
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:05,000
You know what, I think of this 
season. 

315
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:08,000
I will obviously think of Trace 
Jackson Davis, but something 

316
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,000
I've been saying the last couple
weeks is, you know, For most IU 

317
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,400
fans, we talked about, you know,
we look at the offseason like, 

318
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,900
you know, guys, making the leap 
and the off Seasons always been 

319
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,900
that Oladipo sophomore to junior
year and rightfully, so he made 

320
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:22,100
a huge leap. 
But I've been saying that, you 

321
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:25,900
know, the thing I'm going to 
remember is that trace Made that

322
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:28,800
leap this year it because like 
he was really good, but the 

323
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,600
amount of thing and I've been 
the one always make. 

324
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,500
I want to see him shoot more and
shoot more threes, and I would 

325
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:35,600
have loved to have seen that, 
but what all the things he added

326
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,400
to his game, this offseason it's
little pieces here and there and

327
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,600
it's not as expensive. 
Mostly awesome is maybe Oladipo 

328
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,600
just looked at me like, oh my 
God, this guy's went from like, 

329
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,100
you know, whatever you eight 
points, a game to 15 points a 

330
00:15:47,108 --> 00:15:50,400
game and he's a, you know, top 
ten pick, like, Tres rounded the

331
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,500
edges, but he did so much to his
game that I think it's, and he 

332
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:57,000
was so good already in such a 
focal point of the offense. 

333
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,500
I do think it's kind of lost in 
the shuffle how much he improved

334
00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:03,400
his game. 
He was Osterman pointed this out

335
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,300
on one of his last pods, which 
had to go back and check, but, 

336
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,300
you know, Trace Jackson, Davis 
assist rate in the Big Ten this 

337
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:12,400
season. 
And was better than Yogi Ferrell

338
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,500
in 2016 which is just 
mind-boggling, you know, gives 

339
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,400
us his Jackson Davis is assist 
rate. 

340
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:25,700
You know when his four years 8.5
10.8 13.9 24.8 just absurd for a

341
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:29,700
guy who really plays in like 
eight foot radius on the 

342
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:33,000
corporate but he's bringing the 
ball up in like that's I'm still

343
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,200
not sure where he fits into me, 
Legacy wise, you know. 

344
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:39,300
So many guys that I, you have 
won so many things and it's 

345
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:40,700
tough to be like, art your Mount
Rushmore. 

346
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,100
Or without a Big Ten title 
without you know a final four on

347
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:47,200
the right side, I do look at 
it's like art, man, like I use 

348
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,700
not getting that shit in the 
last 20 years, if we're not 

349
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:52,400
winning a ton of Big Ten titles.
So like there has to be a new 

350
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,300
paradigm where you have to fit 
this guy in somewhere because. 

351
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,900
But anyway, I will say that leaf
that Trace Jackson Davis made. 

352
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,000
I don't think enough people are 
talking about how much he grew 

353
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,800
in one season. 
And to me, that's the other 

354
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,400
takeaway I have from this year. 
Well, and that's what's funny is

355
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,900
use an All-American last year, 
yeah. 

356
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:13,099
And And got so much better. 
I mean, the fact he's bringing 

357
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:16,099
the ball up his quickness, his 
post moves, I mean that's the 

358
00:17:16,108 --> 00:17:19,800
thing is, you're right. 
He doesn't leave a 7 foot radius

359
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:23,000
but his post moves in his 
quickness in the post. 

360
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,900
The biggest change in him 
though. 

361
00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:27,400
One hundred percent last year, 
he made Big 10 all-defensive 

362
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,000
team. 
I had people who cover teams in 

363
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,800
the league texting me, just 
laughing at that because he had 

364
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,400
a lot of blocks but he would 
leave his man a lot. 

365
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:39,000
Get back side dunks, all the 
time from his guy he was not 

366
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,300
disciplined defensively. 
He would Chase Ball. 

367
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:45,200
So he put up block numbers, but 
it wasn't a great defender. 

368
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:47,800
He was a great defender this 
year. 

369
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:49,700
I mean completely transformed 
his game. 

370
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:51,700
And that's why, you know, the 
whole year and we were talking 

371
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:54,900
about this preseason and last 
year is limit, this guy's 

372
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,800
minutes as much as you can early
in the season when you don't 

373
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,900
need him because he's doing so 
much for you on both ends. 

374
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,300
It's killing you. 
A lot of big guys, don't play a 

375
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:06,900
whole lot of the offense. 
They stick in the lane and they 

376
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:09,800
just alter shots. 
And and some, you know, get 

377
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,900
blocks and Bounds, but they're 
not out on the floor guarding, 

378
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:15,600
they don't have to guard guards.
20 feet from the from the hoop 

379
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,700
sometimes. 
Like what he did for Indiana is 

380
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,200
it's staggering how much he did 
for that team and how much it 

381
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,800
was on his shoulders, only 
without Trace Jackson. 

382
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,600
Davis, this is not a 500 team 
and I think there's some 

383
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,300
talented guys on this team, but 
the whole thing was built on 

384
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:35,500
him. 
If he went out in January, this 

385
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:39,600
team doesn't reach 500 and and 
no, that would be an injury. 

386
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,400
You'd have to. 
That would be Asterisk, hit the 

387
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,400
reset button on the season. 
Yeah, you know, play for the to 

388
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,100
play for the draft pick as I 
always joke. 

389
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,500
But yeah, no. 
I yeah, yeah, his change and the

390
00:18:52,508 --> 00:18:55,400
development and I mean, trace, 
the thing about Trace that I'm 

391
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,300
gonna miss. 
Most is just his attitude that 

392
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,700
do never had a bad attitude. 
He knew never to through some 

393
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:03,600
really big being on some really 
bad teams and playing some 

394
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,300
really bad basketball. 
He was always consistent and he 

395
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:10,200
never let it's very rarely that 
show. 

396
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,500
How Rated he was with it. 
And even this year, you can tell

397
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:15,700
he thought they were better than
they than they perform. 

398
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:18,600
They finished. 
But there's a reason that guy in

399
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,900
four years, put up the numbers 
he did. 

400
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,100
And it's the work you put in and
I would say you're right, he got

401
00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,800
immensely better this season. 
I think he played himself into 

402
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,500
the NBA this season. 
I don't know how long, he'll 

403
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,200
play, how much he'll play. 
But I think he played himself 

404
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,900
into the NBA on Dowling, and 
they projected, he's projected 

405
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:34,100
and draft picks, man. 
That's I know. 

406
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:35,300
I'm there. 
People put him in the back of 

407
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,100
the first round. 
And I think that's because of 

408
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,300
the increased athleticism, 
because of his ball handling 

409
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:41,800
skills and his movement skills 
that Definitely got better. 

410
00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:45,600
He was not applauding big man 
and I don't think he ever really

411
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,900
was but he certainly wasn't this
year. 

412
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:51,700
You've I mean, he handled the 
ball and played more like a 69 

413
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:56,500
guy as opposed to a 7-footer. 
Yeah, no I'm that's so that's, 

414
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:00,100
I'll segue that as we look into,
if you're good getting off the 

415
00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:01,800
season a little bit look into 
the future. 

416
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:05,800
You know, when we look at the 
the offseason, here's the 

417
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,600
Paradigm that I'm looking at 
things, that you tell me if you 

418
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,600
agree or disagree, like, you 
know, What's it had that comment

419
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,600
in the in the postgame? 
He's like I've never really had 

420
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,600
a big man heavy offense in the 
NBA. 

421
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,900
It's something that I was, you 
know, kind of looking at when we

422
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,800
hired Woodson is like, you know,
those I would joke like those 

423
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,300
early. 
Nick seems he had was kind of 

424
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:25,100
like, you know, the Warriors 
ball three ball before, you 

425
00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:26,700
know, before it had that, that 
was a roster. 

426
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:29,000
It wasn't like, I'd have to go 
back and look is like j.r. 

427
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,500
Smith and like it was like a 
roster. 

428
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:32,500
Jason Kidd, it wasn't roster. 
You're like, man, that's like 

429
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:34,200
those are a bunch of three-point
Deadeye Shooters. 

430
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,600
Like it really wasn't. 
I do Wonder like to me this 

431
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,900
offseason is really fascinating 
because We combating favorite. 

432
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,800
It's incredibly important that 
they yes this offseason. 

433
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,300
Well I think if he comes back 
with the same offense like we're

434
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:52,300
screwed like it's just kid but I
do think there's a there's a 

435
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,000
real world where Woodson was 
given this team. 

436
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,000
It's like you have to get, you 
got to bring Trace back, you 

437
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,600
obviously want to keep him. 
He's a transformational player, 

438
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,300
but in this is no knock to him. 
It's just, you have to run a 

439
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:08,600
very different kind of offense 
to highlight traces skills. 

440
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,500
You can't do a 5 and out, shoot 
a bunch of three. 

441
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:13,500
He's as much as I wanted to 
shoot more threes, it's like you

442
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,700
do have traced Jackson Davis. 
You can't just Chuck it up all 

443
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:19,900
the time. 
I do wonder if Woodson built an 

444
00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:23,100
offense. 
That maximize the talent for 

445
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,300
what he had. 
And now that he has a complete 

446
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:30,100
white slate, a complete reset 
button, if we're going to see a 

447
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:32,600
really transferred, I hope we 
do. 

448
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:35,600
But I do, you know, four people 
look at this as like, man, like 

449
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,400
we got you know, this offense is
going to work. 

450
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,800
Like, I wonder if Woodson's 
like, dude, I know. 

451
00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:43,200
No, I have this other offense 
ready to go. 

452
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,500
I just I can't put it in with it
with this the team I have. 

453
00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:49,100
I look at Purdue very similarly.
It's like yeah. 

454
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:52,200
You like you got a 74 dude in 
the post like you you got to 

455
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,500
give him the ball or you got to 
hit cut them. 

456
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,600
So I that's where I look at it 
as. 

457
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,800
Like I do think we're going to 
see something radically 

458
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,500
different if we don't, I think, 
then we really need to be 

459
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:02,700
concerned. 
Yeah. 

460
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:04,600
And and I'll say this about 
about what? 

461
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,700
I don't think he maximized the 
offense this year. 

462
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:13,100
I think it was very efficient. 
Some degree, but I do think it's

463
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,300
some point. 
You have to start running stuff 

464
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,000
for Shooters, especially when 
you're behind in some of those 

465
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,200
games and they never really ran 
offense for Shooters. 

466
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,600
They basically, you know, Miller
cop waited for kick outs and and

467
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:28,500
the Iowa game was the worst 
words, like you're down 15. 

468
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:30,200
It's like you just start going. 
Yeah. 

469
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,700
Yeah, what are we doing? 
Run Miller cop off to pin downs 

470
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,300
and see what happens like, you 
know, I mean and it's stuff. 

471
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,300
You can drop in a huddle. 
It's not like you have to build 

472
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:40,600
a whole offense around it. 
I mean, but you just didn't see 

473
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,300
a lot of that. 
And, but, yes, I mean, the 

474
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:45,500
offense has to be radically 
different. 

475
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,100
They have to embrace modern 
basketball and three-point 

476
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:53,300
shooting and you know, look at 
look at Miami, look at UConn, 

477
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:56,000
look at some of the teams that 
are in the final four. 

478
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,600
San Diego State is D1 example 
against that and go Aztecs love 

479
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,000
my San Diego guys. 
But there are Rock fight team 

480
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:08,800
and you know, they just dirty up
games and if they shoot 42% 

481
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,100
they're going to win the game 
pretty much. 

482
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:12,300
San Diego State. 
The other teams in this final 

483
00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:16,300
four are teams that can that 
play fluid modern Basketball, 

484
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:19,300
Shoot the ball guard heavy, and 
that's basketball these days. 

485
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:21,300
It just is. 
And if you don't have the guys 

486
00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:25,000
who can do that offensive ly on 
the flip side, you're probably 

487
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,700
not going to have the guys who 
can defend it. 

488
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:30,900
Either you need guys who go 
against that every day in 

489
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:33,400
practice and all of that, that's
modern basketball. 

490
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,500
Now, I know it's not always Big 
Ten basketball, but this is, if 

491
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,300
you want to win championships, 
this is the way you've got to 

492
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:40,000
play. 
Now, I say you have a big man. 

493
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,500
Sure, but it's got to be a big 
man who can play on the floor, 

494
00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:44,200
could face up. 
Maybe hit a jumper. 

495
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,200
Doesn't have to be a three-point
shooter but a guy who can move 

496
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,800
fluidly away and can act as a 
rim protector on the other end 

497
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,100
and then you gotta have guards 
and he got have guards that can 

498
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:55,800
shoot and he got out of guards 
that can drive and mess things 

499
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,400
up. 
And he got to run an offense 

500
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,600
that maximizes all of that. 
And it's tough because it's all 

501
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,600
about the guys you get you know.
I mean you you can't run that 

502
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,200
offense you can't run Miami's 
offense with Indiana's roster 

503
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,600
this year. 
You just In and no matter how 

504
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,300
badly you want to whether he 
wants to or not, I don't know. 

505
00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:16,500
I mean Mike Woods and you look 
at his offenses from the NBA 

506
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:20,000
it's very I so heavy. 
It's a lot of individuals making

507
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,500
plays, which I don't think fits 
perfectly well in college 

508
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:27,600
basketball unless you've got a 
bunch of high-level talents. 

509
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,600
Like Jalen has, you can own a 
trace Jackson Davis next year, 

510
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,000
it doesn't look like they're 
going to have that. 

511
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,700
And so, is it going to be an ISO
heavy offense? 

512
00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:39,200
Is it gonna be an offense where 
you use the set, you know, 

513
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,500
plays. 
Item to get your points or is it

514
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:42,900
going to be about players 
getting points? 

515
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,200
So again, just a lot to process 
about this off. 

516
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,200
So we don't know what it is 
going to look like you're right.

517
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,200
They've had a unique roster for 
the last two years and a very 

518
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,300
unique centerpiece that doesn't 
really exist in college 

519
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:55,300
basketball across the board 
anymore. 

520
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:58,200
You've got a handful of teams 
that have that and then others, 

521
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,400
that don't and most others 
don't. 

522
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,500
And so again, just will be 
interesting to see what they do.

523
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,400
Will be interesting to see who 
they add because, you know, your

524
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,500
roster is only as good as, as a 
As you're constantly bringing in

525
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:13,800
these days with Anne, IL with 
the transfer portal, and with 

526
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,900
recruiting your roster is only 
as good as the is, that is the 

527
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:19,200
latest guys. 
You brought in you might own for

528
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,400
you for that good decent base 
transfer for that transfer talk.

529
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,200
Like and I'm trying to be overly
optimistic. 

530
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,800
Like I look at like if Woodson 
puts in a new offense that's 

531
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,800
forward-thinking and dynamic 
that's great. 

532
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,900
I also look at this offseason 
as, you know, he not only does 

533
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:36,900
he have an opportunity to nail 
like he should nail it. 

534
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:42,300
And honestly, if if Woodson Ian 
needs to be able to nail it off 

535
00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:45,100
season like this because I think
this is how college basketball 

536
00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:48,000
is moving. 
You have, you know, let's assume

537
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,400
Xavier's coming back or he gets 
the waiver to come back. 

538
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,100
It's like you have a 23 24 year 
old like all big 10 point 

539
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:57,000
guards. 
Like I can get you know, you can

540
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,900
tell any transfer, I can get you
the ball, you have renew and the

541
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,300
you know in the postseason you 
know, versatile wingman who can 

542
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:04,100
be a big man? 
You can move around. 

543
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,500
It's like I got three open 
spots. 

544
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,400
Like I have a great team, you're
gonna be on TV, you can be in 

545
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,600
the Big Ten, I then I owe money.
I got three starting spots for 

546
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,000
you, and my thing is, like, this
is again Woodson's got all 

547
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,200
everything in advance. 
He should be able to nail it, 

548
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,000
this off season. 
I was, I was with my dad, 

549
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,300
yesterday, who's 90 about to 
turn 93. 

550
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:24,800
I love him, he's still doing 
great, but he's definitely in 

551
00:26:24,808 --> 00:26:26,800
the old thinking of like, you 
know, we have a turnover, this 

552
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,100
roster and I was looking good. 
It's funny a year ago, he's like

553
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:33,100
man we just need more big men 
and like like who he is I don't 

554
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:34,700
know. 
You like the Ed and chat home 

555
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:37,000
Grandma gather all of the 
tournament like they're all the 

556
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,500
guys weren't playing and I look 
at this year again it's a 

557
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:42,000
snapshot Shot. 
But you know, you're talking 

558
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,900
about the final four teams based
on the pace they play. 

559
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:46,700
I look at it like you're San 
Diego State team. 

560
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:48,600
Would she do better than I three
of the five starters or 

561
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,500
transfers Yukon? 
You got one. 

562
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:54,100
Dude is a transfer. 
Only one freshman starter for 

563
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:55,800
FAU. 
Three of the five starters are 

564
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,800
transfers Greenlee was three 
years ago but still, yeah, don't

565
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,000
transfer and Miami. 
Three of the five starters were 

566
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,900
transfers. 
It's like these teams were 

567
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:07,200
already made on the Fly and 
they're all in the final four. 

568
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,200
I know it's a snapshot of right 
now. 

569
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,900
But, you know, None of the I 
think I saw the stat like 

570
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:14,800
there's no McDonald's 
all-americans, you know. 

571
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,400
So like you can really build a 
Terry Fair. 

572
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,500
It's to be fair. 
It's a weird year as far as the 

573
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:23,700
tournament is concerned but you 
looked at, you know the last 

574
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:28,300
date you know, last 16, there 
were a lot of teams that were 

575
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:33,300
classic classically built teams 
that did not make it that lost 

576
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:35,200
in the tournament and it 
depends, look. 

577
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,300
It also depends what your goal 
is every year is your goal to 

578
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:40,000
win a National Championship? 
Will you got to walk? 

579
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,600
A narrow tightrope to win a 
national champs, you gotta and 

580
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,600
the people who win the NCAA 
tournament every year, I always 

581
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,500
say that, you know, because the 
NCAA tournament doesn't reward 

582
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:52,600
the best team in the nation, it 
rewards the team that plays the 

583
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,200
best down the stretch. 
Essentially, you want to go to a

584
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,800
system where the best team wins 
it's going to look like English 

585
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,900
soccer. 
I mean you know where you just 

586
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,400
you throughout the season, you 
score points and at the end, the

587
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,600
team that played the best all 
season wins college, basketball 

588
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,000
is not that coach football, 
isn't that? 

589
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,000
There's a tournament and in the 
tournament it you have to get 

590
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,200
incredibly lucky to win a 
National Title. 

591
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,100
I have always said that you got 
a hit injury luck, you got to 

592
00:28:20,108 --> 00:28:22,900
hit matchup luck. 
I mean, if Indiana does it face 

593
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:26,200
Syracuse in 2013? 
That seems going to the final 

594
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,500
four if they faced anybody else 
in that may be other than 

595
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:31,700
Wisconsin, Wisconsin, always had
their number. 

596
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,000
They're going to the final four 
and once you're in the final 

597
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,800
four, anybody can win. 
It it's locked. 

598
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,300
I would say the same thing about
2012 like playing Kentucky. 

599
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:41,600
It sweet 16. 
That was the, we gave them, the 

600
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,500
hardest game. 
That was the worst apart, like 

601
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:46,500
that was, you played the best 
team in the tournament we played

602
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:47,600
about. 
I think Indiana. 

603
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,800
Is it any other bracket there in
the Final Four and Twenty? 

604
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,800
Yeah, it's probably true. 
But, you know, so you got to get

605
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,900
really lucky. 
So is your goal every year to 

606
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,900
win the tournament or get to the
Sweet 16, or whatever or is it 

607
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:02,600
to when your conference and and 
to me, the goal should always be

608
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,700
when your conference because 
everything else is gravy you 

609
00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:08,800
winter conference. 
You're happy, you know, like as 

610
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,300
much as we want to make sure. 
Only it was these days. 

611
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:13,900
What you want to make fun of 
Purdue for getting bounced early

612
00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:18,000
all the time, they are winning 
the conference and and and you 

613
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,800
know they have that to fall back
on. 

614
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:24,400
So it's not like they finished 
fourth and, you know, in a dead 

615
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,900
heat got a one seed and got up 
ended their winning the 

616
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:30,200
conference. 
They're winning the Big Ten and 

617
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,500
they've done it a lot recently. 
But the other thing is, in the 

618
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,500
Big Ten, you have to build your 
roster differently than you do 

619
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,300
everywhere else to win the 
conference in my opinion. 

620
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:44,100
And so, So that's the dichotomy 
is like, it's hard to game plan 

621
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:46,000
for both. 
If you're in the Big Ten, the 

622
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,700
way it's currently structured, 
you know, the ACC. 

623
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,100
You can build your roster to win
the ACC and when in the 

624
00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:55,900
tournament and we've seen a lot 
of teams do that. 

625
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:58,400
Seen a lot of SEC teams do it. 
There's more free-flowing, 

626
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,800
basketball Big, Ten, whatever, 
or Big 12. 

627
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,800
Whatever. 
Big Ten is different. 

628
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,300
It's a unique conference and the
games are played differently, 

629
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:07,700
their officiated differently. 
And so you might need to build 

630
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,000
your roster differently. 
I tend to think you should. 

631
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:13,000
Try your goal. 
Every year should be top four in

632
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,800
your conference and the sweet 
16. 

633
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,500
But Winning your conference 
always feels pretty damn good. 

634
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,600
And then the tournament is just 
a crapshoot every year at know 

635
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,400
that no more than this year 
perfectly leads me to a question

636
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,600
I had for you is because you 
also with the big lead. 

637
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,700
You follow kind of, you know, 
Sports we little more broadly 

638
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:34,900
than some of us who just follow 
IU or Big Ten. 

639
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,300
Do you think? 
Like I've never like the 

640
00:30:37,308 --> 00:30:39,600
question of you know man what's 
the Big 10 doing wrong? 

641
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,900
Because are not winning because 
I'm winning the tournament. 

642
00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:43,900
You know, they haven't won a 
title since Michigan say cuz I'm

643
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,700
like, you, I think I've not done
the research lately but for a 

644
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,000
While there were you looked at 
the conference breakdown of 

645
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,900
teams in the final, four of the 
Big Ten stacked up pretty well, 

646
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:54,700
like we were placing teams. 
I think we still Place teams in 

647
00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:58,200
the final four and the final 
game at a relatively similar, 

648
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,700
clipped other conferences. 
It's just it gets hate to say it

649
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,300
gets down to luck, and just 
matchups at some point. 

650
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:09,000
But you know, when you did watch
it this year in the last couple 

651
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,200
years, I look at it. 
I'm just like man. 

652
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,800
It looks like the Big Ten needs 
more athletes. 

653
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:18,000
I'm curious your view of it is 
that What you would say, like I 

654
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,300
always blame the officiating. 
I think that's a part of it, but

655
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:23,500
it does just seemed like when 
you saw us play Miami, do 

656
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:27,400
Miami's on a run right now. 
But the main thing that I left 

657
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,800
that game with besides just 
being like, damn it, we lost was

658
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,600
like there's just a lot of dudes
on Miami where it's like, we 

659
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,900
just don't have the corollary 
dude, who can guard him. 

660
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:39,100
Yeah, and I don't know if they 
have if Miami necessarily had 

661
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:42,100
better basketball players but 
there were more athletic and 

662
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:45,000
they put more pressure on 
Indiana you know, especially on 

663
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,600
their offense. 
And that's the other thing about

664
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:52,700
my Maybe that's really funny. 
Is, I was reading Eamonn Brennan

665
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:57,100
right about this fellow Hoosiers
him and Brennan and he said you 

666
00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:00,500
know Miami probably their 
defense is probably actually 

667
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:05,300
pretty good. 
They just don't you know they 

668
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:08,400
don't need to pressure all the 
time because their offense is so

669
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,500
good and in crunch time Miami 
those athletes have stepped up 

670
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:14,300
puts a pretty good defense, you 
know, on 45-minute stretches 

671
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:20,200
when they needed it. 
And so Yeah, I just I think that

672
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:26,300
the athlete problem is real. 
I think the style of play in the

673
00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:30,100
Big Ten is a real difference. 
That's why the Big Ten ACC 

674
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:34,100
challenge was always so 
interesting is because, you 

675
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:36,800
know, you don't know who what 
style is going to win. 

676
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,300
I do think the officiating has a
huge impact on the style of play

677
00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:42,700
in the Big Ten and therefore 
that style of play in the Big 

678
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:45,500
Ten. 
Winds up retracting. 

679
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:49,500
Fewer of those top-end athletes 
and so it's a cyclical thing. 

680
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:54,100
I think it's a little bit of 
everything causes this but yeah 

681
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:57,700
the Big Ten. 
It's just different. 

682
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:01,800
It is a different you know 
conference and it's like the SEC

683
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,500
says, you know, it just means 
more or whatever. 

684
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:06,100
Well, the big tennis yeah I know
it's different. 

685
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:07,900
It just is different. 
Focal lengths to. 

686
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:11,100
I mean football to you know, 
Ohio state every year has Elite 

687
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,500
level athlete. 
Michigan has Elite level 

688
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:15,700
athletes. 
That's about it. 

689
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:19,400
You know, everybody else is kind
of, you know, a little slower 

690
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,300
and a little, you know, more 
plotting and more based on, you 

691
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:27,900
know, power instead of speed and
And I think that's the same with

692
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,700
basketball. 
Yeah, I it does. 

693
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,800
And I don't know how we solve 
that, but yeah, I don't know 

694
00:33:33,808 --> 00:33:35,600
what the solution is. 
I think the solution first of 

695
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,000
all, is to open up the game in 
the Big Ten. 

696
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,100
He's the is to the officiating 
needs to be different. 

697
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,000
They need to call actual freedom
of movement stuff, instead of, 

698
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:50,100
you know, letting guys get 
mugged or it just needs to 

699
00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:53,800
become consistent wear a tie on 
the perimeter is a foul, but 

700
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,600
mulling a guy in the post is 
fine. 

701
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:57,900
Like you know, it just need. 
They need to find some level of 

702
00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:00,100
consistency and they need to 
rethink what Doing they need to 

703
00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:02,200
rethink the guys they're 
bringing into officia games. 

704
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,000
Yeah, well it's the thing that 
I've heard a little bit as 

705
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,100
people like man you know, it's 
like just guys in the South you 

706
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:10,500
know, the recruitment different 
like no like that kid for Miami 

707
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:12,500
was from Indiana. 
Like this is what always drives 

708
00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:15,000
me nuts. 
I've never been a, you gotta 

709
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,199
just recruit Indiana, guys. 
You got to put up a walk and 

710
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,900
never been that dude, but I do 
hate it that every year in 

711
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:23,400
March. 
There's always somebody blowing 

712
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,100
up and it's like, oh yeah, he's 
from Indiana. 

713
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,699
It's like, yeah. 
Yeah, call guy. 

714
00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:29,300
It's like this happened this 
year against Miami. 

715
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,600
With us, like it's just there's 
always somebody like Jason, you 

716
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,199
know, Garner going way back for 
Arizona is just like there's 

717
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,199
always always some team blowing 
up. 

718
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:37,600
It's like, oh yeah, I got a kid 
from Indiana. 

719
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,800
It's like just let's go after 
it. 

720
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,100
Like there are athletes around 
here that we can go and get. 

721
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:46,699
Yeah, but no back to the 
transfer thing in the final 

722
00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:48,100
four. 
I think that the point that I 

723
00:34:48,107 --> 00:34:53,199
was making is for IU fans. 
The idea that, you know, you can

724
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:57,600
transform your team in a season.
And I look at this at like, look

725
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,700
at Kansas State like look Kansas
State. 

726
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:03,600
When I I just I think that I 
don't think this is a fluke. 

727
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,600
I think it's a sea change that 
you're going to see. 

728
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,100
I think I could be wrong. 
I think the days of like you've 

729
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,400
got to nail recruiting classes 
are going away and it's more, 

730
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:15,600
you get like let him go 
somewhere else. 

731
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,800
Let him cut their teeth for a 
year and then it's like, let's 

732
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,000
see if the Christian Lander is 
actually good or not and if he's

733
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,200
good then we'll get him in the 
portal and if he's not we'll go 

734
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,600
get somebody else in the portal 
and I think you're seeing more 

735
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,300
and more teams where it's like 
the dudes are a little bit. 

736
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,300
Older, they cut their teeth 
somewhere else. 

737
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:34,000
And that's why I look at this 
all season is so interesting. 

738
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,700
Is that if Woodson's able to 
nail this if it shows good for 

739
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:41,900
moving forward, if he can't, he 
has everything his disposal. 

740
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:44,400
If you can't, it's like, I don't
I'm gonna get nervous moving 

741
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,300
forward because I think every 
year it's more about portal hits

742
00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:50,900
than recruiting least. 
That's how I look at basketball 

743
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:53,500
for the next five or ten years. 
I mean, it's not bad to get 

744
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:57,400
five-star recruits, but I do 
think there's, you know, we have

745
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,400
had a great history at that and 
I think Some of them, you know, 

746
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,200
they're more Malik renews than 
Jalen hitch. 

747
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,700
If he knows, not knocking, Malik
renew, but it's like, he's 

748
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:07,700
great. 
He's going to take some time. 

749
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:10,700
I'd rather get them seasoned 
somewhere else and then go and 

750
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:13,300
get the kid like Lowell who now 
is just crushing it at you. 

751
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:20,000
Crush it at Kansas State. 
Yeah, I think that I think with 

752
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,900
this it's got to be I think both
are important. 

753
00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:25,800
I think you have to bring your 
own guys in and develop them in 

754
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,700
the system and then you need to 
supplement that with the guys 

755
00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:30,500
that are better because Here's 
the here's the thing about why 

756
00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:33,400
the transfer portal is working 
for so many teams, it is easier 

757
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,000
to integrate a veteran guy into 
your culture and your program. 

758
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,300
Then it is High schooler. 
And that's because the high 

759
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:46,000
schoolers are not just dealing 
with the change in basketball. 

760
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,400
The change in speed, the change 
in all of that, that's a big 

761
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,500
enough Hill to climb. 
They're also dealing with going 

762
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,200
to school and being on their own
for the first time. 

763
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,800
So there's mental stress, these 
veteran guys were like yeah, 

764
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,000
done that. 
And so I do think it's a to and 

765
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,000
the step up and play like just 
High School to college. 

766
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,100
Yeah, I know it. 
Yeah, even if they're coming 

767
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:07,700
from a smaller school they're 
dealing with playing D1. 

768
00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:10,900
Yeah, right. 
And So what I'll say about it is

769
00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:14,100
to what I would like to see more
of from Mike Woodson is I feel 

770
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:16,600
like he builds teams and he's 
not building a program. 

771
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:21,500
I feel like he's just sprinkling
dudes in and, you know, but the 

772
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:26,400
long-term vision is very cloudy 
and so I would like to see cuz I

773
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:31,300
mean look You've got there are 
high school recruits that 

774
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,200
Indiana has to get, I mean there
guys, you know? 

775
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:39,800
Yeah, but it was a put Inga, 
he's a, you know, the top 5 

776
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,500
recruit in the country and he's 
in Kokomo. 

777
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,100
If you can't get that guy like I
know they haven't had a great 

778
00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:48,600
track record necessarily pulling
the best guys in Indiana. 

779
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,900
Over the last 15 years. 
I'm tired of Michigan State. 

780
00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:54,900
Getting all those guys. 
Yeah you got you gotta get him 

781
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:57,300
like there's like there's no 
excuse for not. 

782
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:59,100
I don't care how much ni L 
money. 

783
00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:02,800
It takes go get that dude. 
Like, I watched him play, he's a

784
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,600
stud. 
You can build a team around him 

785
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,900
for a year, but still you've got
up sprinkling, the veteran, you 

786
00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:15,800
know, guys, I think guards on 
the perimeter are a huge thing 

787
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:18,200
to add because freshman guard 
struggle. 

788
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,600
Look at Purdue down the stretch.
Their freshman guards collapsed 

789
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,700
like a house of cards, all they 
did. 

790
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:28,200
They got pressured played like 
garbage and Purdue A magical 

791
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,500
season, quote-unquote fell 
apart, and so fret. 

792
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:34,800
You know, having veteran guards 
is really important and guards, 

793
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,100
who have been through Wars 
before is very important. 

794
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:39,700
And if you can, if you don't 
have to go through the rough 

795
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,400
times of developing those guys, 
and you can bring them in. 

796
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,300
That's a huge bonus, save your 
Johnson's. 

797
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:46,600
A perfect example. 
He's a guy who really played 

798
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:47,700
well. 
His first year here, took a 

799
00:38:47,707 --> 00:38:49,900
little time to adjust and then 
he was really good down the 

800
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:51,600
stretch and would have been 
really good this year. 

801
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,000
Do you have any current targets 
that you think Woodson might go 

802
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,300
after or guys would like to see?
Or is it just is it? 

803
00:38:57,500 --> 00:38:59,700
Two wide open. 
I think it's too wide open. 

804
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,100
You don't know who else is going
to enter right now. 

805
00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:04,800
So the targets now may shift you
know if a better guy comes 

806
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600
available also I don't start 
getting excited about guys until

807
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,300
they're on campus visiting 
because because you know it's 

808
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:12,300
you here like well and he's 
talking to this guy, they're 

809
00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:15,600
doing an in home and he's doing 
an in home with 30 guys and then

810
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,100
do calls and is like hey you 
want to come down and he's like 

811
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:21,100
yeah I'm going there. 
You know she never really know 

812
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:24,100
once they're on campus, I think 
and you're actually seeing 

813
00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:25,400
Indiana. 
That's when I start to think 

814
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,400
about it. 
The guy that's most heavily. 

815
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:29,900
Recruited right now. 
I mean there, I don't know. 

816
00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:31,800
He's getting the most attention 
to the guy who's further 

817
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,500
songlines Jameson battle. 
That's an interesting player to 

818
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:38,100
me. 
I don't know if it's a guy. 

819
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:41,600
I you know, go broke for but but
he is an interesting player, 

820
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,100
know he's hurt this year and his
number suffered but he's a 

821
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:48,300
shot-maker play inside-out can 
shoot the three. 

822
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:53,200
You know, that's that's kind of 
what Indiana is missing but I'm 

823
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:54,400
not it. 
But again I'm not sure who else 

824
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,300
is going to come available so 
they need shooting, they need 

825
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,800
Athleticism and they need some 
guys who could do things both 

826
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,100
ways. 
Yeah. 

827
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,800
Well, it's always, you know, 
other teams are recruiting them 

828
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,100
as well, so not like, yes, which
is used to pick pick whoever he 

829
00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:08,600
wants, but I would say and with 
high school, recruiting with 

830
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,800
high school credit, you kind of 
see how the C is the C is 

831
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,400
changing with those overlap. 
Many, many months transfer 

832
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,700
portal a couple weeks, I mean, 
you know, so it can change 

833
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,900
daily. 
No, it's wild and it's, I 

834
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:24,800
understand why they have to do 
it, but it is nuts that it's 

835
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,400
going on while the tournaments 
going on. 

836
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,600
So there's teams, you know, 
Obviously guys on San Diego 

837
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,300
State, maybe if they want to 
transfer, they're not doing that

838
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:33,900
now. 
And if you're deep in the 

839
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:37,800
tournament, you lose three weeks
of a 60-day portal period, but I

840
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,400
get why they do it all. 
So anytime I can take a shot the

841
00:40:40,408 --> 00:40:42,700
and Sibley. 
I will, you know, again it is, I

842
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:46,300
understand why they do it, but 
it's like, these kids are still 

843
00:40:46,300 --> 00:40:48,300
finishing. 
Their, their theoretical 

844
00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:51,100
semester of college and like, 
you're making them to sit decide

845
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:54,300
to leave school while I get 
should be after the semester 

846
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:58,400
ends, if you really gave a shit 
about their ocean, but the NCAA 

847
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,000
doesn't soak and resumes. 
Want them on campus as quickly 

848
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,900
as possible to for workouts. 
And, you know, I mean, it's a 

849
00:41:03,908 --> 00:41:04,600
whole. 
Yeah. 

850
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,900
And but I mean think about it 
like this, like, yeah, San Diego

851
00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:09,300
State. 
Those coaches may have Targets 

852
00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:11,500
in the transporter, they're not 
gonna be able to spend time with

853
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:16,400
her talk to until next week. 
You know, they're three weeks 

854
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,200
behind and yeah, you're right. 
It is a mess. 

855
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,200
I think their spot. 
If they are you, if they want to

856
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,100
swap out like yeah, I'll call 
Brian Dutcher. 

857
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:33,500
See if see if he's About that, 
you know, kind of wrap it up on 

858
00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:35,100
this. 
You know, what are your thoughts

859
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:37,500
for, for next season? 
They obviously had beat you. 

860
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,700
We're in a nice spot where we 
could just say, you got to just 

861
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:41,700
get better every year. 
It's like next year, sweet 16 

862
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:44,200
and then like with doing that 
five years we want to title and 

863
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,200
we're good. 
I will answer my question and 

864
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,000
then give it to you. 
Like, I look at next year, you 

865
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,400
know what, what killed Creed Was
the Lost of Syracuse. 

866
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,700
Sure as hell didn't help but it 
was the you follow up a sweet 16

867
00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:02,500
with like Hey we're in the 
wilderness and then you know, 

868
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:06,500
wheel goes 2016, we're in the 
wilderness and you know, you 

869
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:10,100
look at it, take the first real 
Wisconsin for a while. 

870
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:12,300
They're just like they're, 
they're never lower than fifth, 

871
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:14,000
but they're always up in that 
top Echelon. 

872
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:17,500
I look at that as like, this is 
this to me is the goal for 

873
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,600
Woods. 
Like we don't need to win a Big 

874
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,300
Ten title next year. 
We don't need to do a lot. 

875
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:28,200
To me, it's like you got to be 
in that 7 8 9 10 seed range for 

876
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,300
the NCAA tournament. 
Like you you have to stay in the

877
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:34,800
tournament field. 
You can't just we barely got in,

878
00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:37,400
we got in safely this year or 
protected seed you don't need to

879
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,300
be protected cede territory. 
But you can't go back on that 

880
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:42,500
roller coaster where it's like 
we were good and then it's like 

881
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:44,900
I know a lot of people left but 
basketball. 

882
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:48,000
As I've been saying is different
now, so if you don't need. 

883
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,200
So that to me, that's where I 
look at next year. 

884
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Like, I'm not saying we have to 
do this or that but to me Only 

885
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,100
Benchmark, you have to clear as 
you just have to make the 

886
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:01,200
tournament and again, at a 
school, like Indiana with the ni

887
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,900
L base that we have with all the
advantages that we have over, 

888
00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:07,500
like I heard somewhere that 
Minnesota's entire ni L. 

889
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:09,800
They're like, happy they got 
like 250 thousand dollars for 

890
00:43:09,808 --> 00:43:12,700
the basketball team. 
Much as a whole like we have 

891
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:17,900
advantages, you have to be able 
to keep a level enough playing 

892
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:20,500
field where you're getting in 
the tournament year in year out,

893
00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:22,300
even when there is some 
turnover. 

894
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:24,900
So, to me, that's That's what I 
look at for next year. 

895
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:26,500
I'm curious where your head's 
at. 

896
00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:29,600
Yeah, success. 
For me, next year is a 

897
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,800
comfortable selection Sunday 
where you're only worried about 

898
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,100
who you're going to match up 
with. 

899
00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:38,100
I think that, that Indiana 
should have that every single 

900
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:40,800
year with the rare. 
Once every 10 years, it's a 

901
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,500
massive rebuild and bunch of 
guys got hurt and you just maybe

902
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:45,600
we'll make it. 
Maybe we don't. 

903
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,800
Oh, hey, we're going to make an 
IT and build for next year. 

904
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,200
You know I mean like once a 
decade that's that's it's not 

905
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,300
fine but it's understandable 
things happen. 

906
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,500
Comfortable selection. 
Sunday should be every year for 

907
00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:58,700
Indiana and so that needs to 
happen next year. 

908
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,800
This year I said top four in the
Big Ten you know with how mashed

909
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,800
together everything was if you 
finished 7th this year you felt 

910
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,400
like yeah we could have done 
better but at the same time 

911
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,200
we're exactly where everybody 
else is your kind of in the top 

912
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,900
tier finishing anywhere to like 
ninth honestly. 

913
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,400
But I would say you know, I 
don't know if you have to 

914
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:20,800
compete for a Big Ten title next
year. 

915
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,100
I certainly don't think that's 
possible, really, but I think 

916
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:26,600
you need Need to finish in the 
top half. 

917
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,300
Easily, you do have talent 
coming back, you know I mean 

918
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:34,900
like CJ gun Kayla Banks Malik 
renew Xavier Johnson. 

919
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:39,500
Those are good basketball 
players and Tamar Bates. 

920
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:42,400
If he plays the way he's capable
as we've seen in stretches from,

921
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,800
they need to develop him into 
who he supposed to be. 

922
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,600
I mean, there's a lot of that's 
on tomorrow's shoulders but a 

923
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,400
lot of it is on the coaches as 
well. 

924
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,000
Turn him into the player, you 
know, he can be, I've seen his 

925
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,400
high school tape I I watched a 
lot of it and I've seen him in 

926
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,300
stretches in college where he 
looks like a really good, really

927
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:02,400
confident scorer, who can score 
at all, three levels, you got to

928
00:45:02,408 --> 00:45:05,400
make him that guy. 
You had weird is he's an athlete

929
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,500
like there is, there's a guy who
is that athlete? 

930
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:10,300
Like when he came out, my 
comparison for him is a little 

931
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:14,900
bit more polished, a little less
athletic than a Victor Oladipo 

932
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,400
like he has the long arms, he's 
got the quickness side to side, 

933
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,100
he's got that personality that 
galvanizes people when he's 

934
00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:22,800
going. 
Well, he's the guy who's like, 

935
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,600
get a Fire the crowd up all of 
that, he's a little more 

936
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,100
polished than Victor was coming 
out and obviously talking about 

937
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:32,300
them as high schoolers from yeah
not not not with Victor became 

938
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:36,500
but he has the potential to be a
game-changer for Indiana. 

939
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:39,600
They just have to make him that 
build them into that and that's 

940
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,700
on the staff and it's on and 
it's on tomorrow but it will say

941
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:46,100
that about the staff is you 
brought him in make him into the

942
00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:49,800
guy, you think he's supposed to 
be so they're going to have good

943
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,200
players and and honestly when 
you stack those players up 

944
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,800
Individually against some of the
Big Ten teams, they're going to 

945
00:45:55,808 --> 00:45:59,200
be playing individually. 
They will be more talented. 

946
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,400
Especially once you have the 
transfer portal jukai Newton's 

947
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,300
coming in and game cups on. 
I expect them to be freshman 

948
00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:06,900
next year. 
I don't expect them to have huge

949
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:09,700
impacts. 
I think they're for your guys, 

950
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,800
but, you know, they're talented.
And you're going to, you're 

951
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,700
going to stack Talent up. 
That's going to be on par with a

952
00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:18,800
lot of the Big Ten. 
Not not the top tier teams, but 

953
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,600
a lot of the Big 10, you got to 
win games, and you have to mold 

954
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,400
that Aunt into successful teams.
And I will say this, if they 

955
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,900
aren't successful. 
Next up next, your turns into a 

956
00:46:28,908 --> 00:46:32,500
dumpster fire, which there's 
that possibility. 

957
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:34,200
Always exists with Indiana 
basketball. 

958
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,600
We've seen it a lot over the 
years. 

959
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,600
Great season fall off a cliff, 
we've seen it. 

960
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,800
If that happens. 
I think there's gonna be a lot 

961
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,300
of questions asked about Mike 
Woodson and about his, you 

962
00:46:43,308 --> 00:46:49,300
answered, given his age and 
given what he had this year and 

963
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,300
given some of the struggles that
have happened in his first two 

964
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:54,500
years. 
If a third year is off the 

965
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:56,600
cliff, I think you're going to 
start asking questions. 

966
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,000
I, yeah, I don't want to go 
down. 

967
00:47:00,100 --> 00:47:01,700
I agree. 
I agree. 

968
00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:04,100
And I think he's gonna be like 
fired. 

969
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,000
I just think you're gonna start 
wondering if he's the guy to 

970
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,100
stick around for a while. 
Yeah. 

971
00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:13,200
Because I think for all of us, 
we got to one more question. 

972
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,200
So I want to end on a, we got to
come up with a positive way to 

973
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,100
help us but II, but because I 
think a lot of us had those same

974
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:20,300
questions. 
We're kind of soul searching 

975
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:22,700
after that loss of Penn State's,
and we lost three in a row and 

976
00:47:22,700 --> 00:47:24,200
it's like, wow. 
What is going on? 

977
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:28,200
Like, and then it turned around 
team team, won, eight of nine. 

978
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:31,300
But I'm with you and that is 
again, I'll go back to it. 

979
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:35,400
The two things like, if the 
offense is the same and we just 

980
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,200
strike out in the portal that 
really is going to freak me out 

981
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,200
too and you have a success it's 
like, okay, you figured out a 

982
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,300
way but like you've got to be 
able to navigate the portal and 

983
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:48,800
Woodson has look like, I've been
saying he's got advantages on 

984
00:47:48,808 --> 00:47:50,900
his side, like you got to be 
able to do it and just being 

985
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:53,200
like what we weren't prepared, 
like we lost a lot like, yeah. 

986
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,500
You're Gonna Lose a lot every 
year. 

987
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:55,700
Now you knew what are you lose 
it? 

988
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:56,900
By the way you knew you were 
going to? 

989
00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:58,700
Yes. 
Yes ago. 

990
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:00,800
You know. 
None of this is a surprise. 

991
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,800
Yeah. 
And you again you also be like 

992
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:04,300
hey man. 
That's took. 

993
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:07,100
I took a dude in jail, his fee, 
know who wasn't really on the 

994
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:10,500
radar and he might be a lottery 
pick like I did that. 

995
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,400
So if you can't nail the portal 
this year, it's like, when are 

996
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,400
you going to be able to nail it?
And again, if the offense 

997
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,600
doesn't change and why are you 
not playing Modern basketball 

998
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,200
when you don't have a trace 
Jackson Davis? 

999
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,900
So those things will freak me 
out. 

1000
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:24,600
And yeah, it's I think It'll be 
it's a big. 

1001
00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:26,400
It's a big year next year for 
that reason. 

1002
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,000
Because if you do kind of fall 
off a cliff, it's like, all 

1003
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,300
right. 
We don't have a four-year window

1004
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:32,700
to do a rebuild. 
Like that's what I've always 

1005
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:35,000
said with Archie as he got a 
little more time. 

1006
00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:37,000
Yeah. 
Because it's like, all right, if

1007
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,800
if this guy can figure it out we
got 20 years like we got a 

1008
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,200
20-year run and no matter how 
was it was supposed to be 

1009
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,000
plugging player? 
Would seduce oldest player. 

1010
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,000
Yeah it's just based on his age 
and we got five more years with 

1011
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,000
him maybe six that's like so 
You've got to be able to nail 

1012
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,500
this stuff. 
We don't have those kind of 

1013
00:48:56,508 --> 00:49:00,000
window, so I'm with you on that.
That next year, if it doesn't go

1014
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,800
well, it's going to put people 
and it's just, I really hope 

1015
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,600
that doesn't happen because we 
just don't need that as a fan 

1016
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,000
base, like, we just, we don't 
need another coach like I, you 

1017
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,600
know, it's it's, it's it just 
seems every couple years there, 

1018
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,200
they're doing that. 
But no, I and again, I'm not 

1019
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,300
saying that Mike Woodson is 
going to be fired after next 

1020
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:19,600
year, you know, anything like 
that. 

1021
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,200
But I'm saying if it's not if it
doesn't go well. 

1022
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:26,300
Well, and it doesn't look good 
and it just doesn't fit. 

1023
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:29,200
You're going to start having 
high-level donors start asking 

1024
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,500
questions and they were already 
asking questions this year, 

1025
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,900
Midway through the year and then
things turned around and got 

1026
00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:35,300
better. 
But there are a lot of people 

1027
00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:36,500
wondering. 
Okay, well, how's it going to? 

1028
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:38,700
Do, you know, you could say, 
like, the offense doesn't play 

1029
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:40,300
the way it's supposed to be 
because of Tracy exit. 

1030
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,700
Yeah. 
Well he also inherited Tracy 

1031
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:44,600
accent, Davis, you know, and 
that's that's the flip side of 

1032
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,200
it. 
And so it's going to be weird 

1033
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,900
seeing this team without that 
and and playing particular 

1034
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:53,800
potentially a different offense.
I mean Woodson has You know, 

1035
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:57,100
intimated that it's going to be 
a different offense so it will 

1036
00:49:57,100 --> 00:50:01,100
be very interesting to see. 
I think it's definitely going to

1037
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:05,600
be a, there's going to be a 
large variance in how next year 

1038
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,800
can go. 
It could be terrible or they 

1039
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,500
could nail the portal and it 
could be great and it could be 

1040
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:14,200
sort of the stepping stone to 
Greatness for Indiana or it 

1041
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,400
could be. 
Here we go again. 

1042
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:18,300
You know, with these roller 
coaster Seasons. 

1043
00:50:18,900 --> 00:50:21,600
Yeah, I will say we talk about 
the Big Ten needing more 

1044
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,200
athletes. 
I joke that we Do have one team 

1045
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,700
that actually did have all the 
athletes or just poorly coach, 

1046
00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:28,400
that's Michigan. 
So you look at Michigan, it's 

1047
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,600
like they do have all the 
athletes. 

1048
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,600
Just have a coach who can't put 
it together. 

1049
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,400
Absolutely. 
Totally agree. 

1050
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,000
Right. 
Anything else before we wrap up?

1051
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,200
Yeah. 
I go San Diego State. 

1052
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,300
I guess I this is my hometown 
boys. 

1053
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:45,800
I will say that program is 
really interesting. 

1054
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,700
When I was in high school, they 
went around talking to guys, on 

1055
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:52,700
my club team and a bunch of 
other club teams. 

1056
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,800
Them to come and walk on because
the team was so bad and they 

1057
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,700
were just like, yeah, we need 
more high-level Walk-Ons. 

1058
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:02,100
You know, we need better 
practice players all this. 

1059
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:05,700
I think my freshman year of 
college, and I was at USC, San 

1060
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:09,000
Diego, State won four games and 
then Steve Fisher came in and I 

1061
00:51:09,008 --> 00:51:11,200
think they won like six his 
first year. 

1062
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:15,600
And it's a really nice program. 
That is carved out a really nice

1063
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,200
spot. 
I'm very happy for everybody 

1064
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,200
involved because in the covid 
season, they were looking at a 

1065
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,500
one seed and that tournament got
canceled. 

1066
00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:25,700
They were They won their first 
like, 29 games that year were 

1067
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:27,900
amazing. 
And they have about four to five

1068
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,300
guys back from that covid team 
this year. 

1069
00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:34,500
So it's nice for them to see. 
I'm very happy for them and also

1070
00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:37,800
hey they did us all a solid by 
getting Alabama out of the 

1071
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,900
tournament. 
So go Aztecs you are painful to 

1072
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:42,800
watch but I will root for your 
Victory. 

1073
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,500
It's not the best corollary 
because he was like God, he was 

1074
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:50,600
there way longer than I realized
but you know Fisher was there 17

1075
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,200
years? 
Yeah, would would have gone the 

1076
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,800
under on that? 
Lost big known expecting him to 

1077
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,400
be there that long either and 
Dutcher was his assistant the 

1078
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:03,000
entire time so not but let's end
on this. 

1079
00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:06,700
Is there corollary there with a 
experienced coach like Fisher 

1080
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:09,900
coming in turning that around 
and then getting things on the 

1081
00:52:09,900 --> 00:52:13,000
right path that dutcher's able 
to grow with that? 

1082
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,100
You could do with like Woodson 
and Indiana because there's 

1083
00:52:15,100 --> 00:52:18,000
something where Woodson again, I
don't think we have 16 morning 

1084
00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:19,500
here. 
So, yeah, I know, I don't know. 

1085
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,800
I don't think what's its knees. 
Want that either? 

1086
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,100
What's, what do you be like, 
hell, no. 

1087
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,400
No, man, I can't walk that long.
Well they versus Steve Fisher 

1088
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,000
was hanging out in San Diego. 
What's this? 

1089
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,100
Gotta I love Bloomington but you
know it's you don't live there. 

1090
00:52:32,300 --> 00:52:34,500
Yeah. 
Fisher was you know heading to 

1091
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:36,200
the beach with his wife every 
day? 

1092
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,400
I know where they live. 
They live like right down the 

1093
00:52:38,408 --> 00:52:39,900
street. 
Um yeah. 

1094
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:41,700
So do you live there? 
It's funny. 

1095
00:52:41,700 --> 00:52:44,800
I was listening to one of the 
ringer pods on One Shining 

1096
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,500
podcast or when he I went riding
cotton like Bill Simmons on 

1097
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:49,700
their talk about where brawny 
might go and he's like they're 

1098
00:52:49,700 --> 00:52:52,100
kicking around like, you know, 
USC makes sense or Pepperdine is

1099
00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:54,600
like you You've been it, you 
live there. 

1100
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,900
I've been out there a couple 
times. 

1101
00:52:55,900 --> 00:52:59,200
It's like, how does like, why 
doesn't Pepperdine is why aren't

1102
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:00,500
they better like Loyola 
Marymount? 

1103
00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:04,200
He's campuses are beautiful. 
Like, why the hell? 

1104
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,300
I again, come to Indiana, like I
love Indian. 

1105
00:53:06,300 --> 00:53:08,600
Yes, go. 
Are you but how if your 

1106
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,600
Pepperdine has, if those are 
those know what I am. 

1107
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,700
But here's the campus of, let's 
go for those who don't know, 

1108
00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:18,200
pepper mines, campus is the most
beautiful campus in America. 

1109
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,000
It is, it is in Malibu on the 
coast. 

1110
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,800
So you're just, you're at a 
Country Club you go to school at

1111
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,000
a country club I mean you look 
at how are they not better UCLA?

1112
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,100
Like isn't it gorgeous, I hate 
saying that cause I'm a USC got.

1113
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:34,900
But UCLA USC. 
You're in the middle of downtown

1114
00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:37,400
Los Angeles and is this 
beautiful like Rolling Hills? 

1115
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,800
Beautiful campus? 
You step one foot off of it and 

1116
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,600
you're in like right now. 
Yeah, you're what? 

1117
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,100
We're in Downtown LA. 
It's not as bad as it used to be

1118
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:47,000
but it like because that a 
downtown LA has kind of grown 

1119
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,400
outward and so you're like a 
couple blocks from Staples 

1120
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,000
Center, you know? 
I mean you're right they were 

1121
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,000
building that when I was in 
school Dating myself heavily 

1122
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,900
there. 
Um, but you know, I don't know, 

1123
00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:00,000
man. 
I mean City go State like it's 

1124
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,400
not next to the beach but it's 
not a bad campus. 

1125
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,600
It's probably 10 minutes, 15 
minutes from be able to sit on 

1126
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,400
the beach and do nothing and 
Pacific Beach and hang out. 

1127
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,500
And, you know, you're right 
about that. 

1128
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:15,300
Like, I'd certainly rather be 
there than Kentucky, or, you 

1129
00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:18,800
know, Alabama, or Arkansas or 
some of these other schools to 

1130
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,300
get top level players. 
I mean, I think if you can get 

1131
00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:23,000
kids on visits out here, you're 
gonna get them. 

1132
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,900
I do and and you can, do you 
think the Pepperdine campus is 

1133
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:30,700
better than if you go to Arc? 
If you go to Arkansas to have 

1134
00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:32,800
muscle and taking your shirt, 
taking his shirt off, and then 

1135
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,200
it's like it's much better now, 
using the view, as much better 

1136
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,200
effort. 
I know I used to do basketball 

1137
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,300
camps here, Lorenzo Romar. 
You City basketball camps when 

1138
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:45,400
he was the coach at Pepperdine. 
He be like, you guys are gonna 

1139
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,200
grow up, you do you visit 
Pepperdine and you're not going 

1140
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,100
to leave and I visited 
Pepperdine once and I was like, 

1141
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:54,600
I do not want to leave Was 
correct. 

1142
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,300
So yeah, it's I don't know. 
I mean, there's stuff like that 

1143
00:54:59,300 --> 00:55:00,500
out here. 
Like, why would guys go to 

1144
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:04,500
Gonzaga over Pepperdine? 
I don't, you know, like it that 

1145
00:55:05,100 --> 00:55:07,000
tradition. 
That's the only reason they win.

1146
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,700
That's it. 
So but there's a corollary there

1147
00:55:09,700 --> 00:55:13,100
where, you know, maybe Indiana 
with Woodson has that with what 

1148
00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:14,500
Fisher. 
Sure is done. 

1149
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:17,200
Fisher started and then, you 
know, Dutchess kept going at San

1150
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,300
Diego State. 
Yeah, I think that's a more of a

1151
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:22,800
better comparison than, you 
know, a lot of people compare to

1152
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,100
join. 
And Howard going back to 

1153
00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:27,300
Michigan and not having college 
experience. 

1154
00:55:27,500 --> 00:55:33,400
I mean Fisher was, yeah, he 
wanted Michigan, but it's an 

1155
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,100
older guy sort of putting his 
stamp on a program and 

1156
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:39,100
rebuilding in his way. 
I think it is a fair comparison.

1157
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,500
Wasn't your right does not have 
that Runway that Steve Fisher 

1158
00:55:42,500 --> 00:55:43,800
because it was such a bad 
program. 

1159
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,400
He could have a bunch of bad 
years, do whatever he wanted. 

1160
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,800
He didn't really, he was pretty 
successful, pretty early on, I 

1161
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,000
mean, especially comparative to 
what had been The past. 

1162
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:57,000
So there's also less scrutiny in
that situation. 

1163
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:03,300
So but what's it's gonna have a 
lot of scrutiny and and but he's

1164
00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:05,800
got to do a quick man. 
I mean like he's you know, this 

1165
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,300
can't be a lingering thing where
they're just above five hundred 

1166
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:11,200
next year and that. 
No, but next year will be good 

1167
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,900
but Hereafter will be good, will
be good. 

1168
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:16,100
And then you know, you get what 
you got this year, which was a 

1169
00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:17,500
good season, not a great 
student. 

1170
00:56:17,500 --> 00:56:21,300
There needs to be a great season
of Indiana basketball soon. 

1171
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:23,700
People are losing it with this. 
Program. 

1172
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:25,900
There needs to be something to 
hold onto or something, to talk 

1173
00:56:25,900 --> 00:56:28,200
about. 
If it's not Yogi, Ferrell, 

1174
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,300
hitting a step back three at 
Iowa. 

1175
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,000
I mean, that's the last memory 
that we have, that is like, yes,

1176
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,200
that isn't an individual 
accomplishment memory. 

1177
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:41,000
It's a team memory and that was 
seven seasons ago, so I'm not a 

1178
00:56:41,008 --> 00:56:42,500
positive. 
Know, I know you doing. 

1179
00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:47,600
I'm just it's true. 
There is there is an upside 

1180
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,400
here. 
The upside is Indiana, has an 

1181
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,400
opportunity to build a roster. 
This offseason deal, the 

1182
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,500
transfer portal. 
Got a bunch of open spots 

1183
00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:56,600
transfer portal. 
You've got some talent coming 

1184
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,600
back. 
There is a huge opportunity for 

1185
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,000
them. 
They got a nail it. 

1186
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,300
That's the upside. 
That's the happiness to end on. 

1187
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,200
They've got to nail it but there
is an opportunity here that 

1188
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,100
plenty roster spots to bring in 
some good players. 

1189
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:10,000
Yep. 
They do Ryan a pleasure if we 

1190
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,500
can keep going forever. 
But let's catch up before next 

1191
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:14,300
season. 
Ryan and catch my assembly. 

1192
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:16,600
Call the big lead.com. 
When thank you, guys all for 

1193
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,700
listening, we'll be doing more 
kind of postseason Recaps as we 

1194
00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:22,700
go along. 
And then when we report on news 

1195
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:25,800
happens, Has will be here like a
week late as in pure Crimson 

1196
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,500
cast fashion. 
So thank you guys all for 

1197
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:30,200
listening for Ryan. 
This is Scott for Crimson cast 

1198
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:30,900
signing off.