You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. Hey, welcome back, folks.
Crimson Cast here it is the 13th of January 2024.
Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining you once again as we
embark on IU talk from all angles.
Are you coming off a victory in men's basketball last night?
Big game tonight? If you're listening on Saturday
for IU women, well, we assume the women are playing in the
game. It may just be Caitlin Clark on
a court by herself based upon how Fox has been promoting it.
So we'll see if the IU women are actually allowed to get on the
floor. But and then obviously some
football news we'll talk about a little bit as well.
But first of all, Scott, how you doing?
I'm doing great, doing fantastic.
We just had a coach of my son's 10 year old basketball team and
it's a great game, man. We just had a we were down 23 to
20 with five seconds to go. I drew up an inbounds play and
kid hit a three, went to overtime, which is free throws
and we won them free throws. It was awesome.
Wait overtime is free throws. It's Is this, it's?
Is this like the college football overtimes where you
just go to two point conversions?
Yeah, I mean it's a little. Well, all right.
First off, this is 5th and 6th grade basketball.
So if you did another 5 minute period, like First off, there's
very good. Likely there's still a tie, like
there's not a ton of scoring and so they just go straight Like
whoever's on the court, it's just alternating free throw
just, you know, 11111. And if that doesn't work, they
do it again. It's not ideal, but it it turns
into a little bit of like, you know, you're a soccer guy.
It's kind of like you can't just keep doing overtimes with nobody
scoring. That's that's fair.
Oh, OK. Well, good.
Congratulations. We're all.
Victory, man. We won.
No, no, no. We're proud of you.
That's great. I this is this is about the best
thing that could possibly have happened to the Crimson Cast
family in a while. So that's this is awesome.
So anyway, Scott is apparently as good of an inbounds play
drawer upper. We're going to just we're just
going to start calling him Scott Woodson from this point forward.
So no, that's that's awesome news man.
Congratulations. Thank you.
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I mean in Indiana. Refresh.
It feels like that's gonna help, like the local GDP.
Like it's like almost almost unfair.
Do an election year, it's gonna help the local economy and it's
gonna throw all the numbers off. Like it's like, wow, like
Indiana GDP is on 80%. Like what's going on?
Well, we can. We can spot the change in the
CPI and it happens to correspond exactly with when Home Field
Apparel is doing refreshes for Indiana.
It's it's delightful. Also, just a reminder, folks,
that Crimson Cast is on Sub Stack.
You can subscribe for free and get emails with episodes right
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The podcast will always be free and we'd love to have you as
part of the Sub Stack family. All right, Scott, let's talk
about Indiana. They pick up a nice victory last
night in Assembly Hall. Really one of their best games
of the year, if you look at it from a statistical perspective.
It wasn't perfect by any means, but it was pretty good given
what we've seen out of this team so far this season.
They beat Minnesota 74 to 62 and offensively looked pretty good,
But I was actually most pleased with the defense that they
played for the most part in this game.
You know, they held Minnesota to 41 1/2 percent effective field
goal percentage. They held them to under 9/10 of
a point per possession. Minnesota never really got on
track in this one. You know, I mean it's Minnesota,
who they're probably not the worst team in the Big 10 this
year, but they're certainly, you know, probably in the bottom
four, I would say, overall, just in terms of like talent on the
floor. But still, this is the kind of
game you have to win and I think win convincingly if you're going
to get the season back on track. And Indiana certainly deserves a
lot of credit for doing that. Yeah I mean it's kind of the you
know we we talk a lot about offense you you end up talking a
lot about defense. But I I would look at the other
side of the coin that I I think that because they came out on
the offensive side and did well, they had a couple threes get up
like what, 11:00 to 2:00 to start the game.
You know, these these things are really intertwined.
And so when this team plays good offense, it then comes back and
plays a little more. It plays better defense and
again, being home, they kind of get revved up.
But you know and then after 11-2 they go on a 14 to two run At
one point is what, 25 to 10, they're up 15.
And so I think when the shots are going down, this team plays
better defense. They just come back a little
more locked in. And so I do think that both
sides of the coin, they're working well.
But no, I I agree. I mean, this was a game where,
you know, you get up by 15 in the first half at home, almost
getting toward 20. And I always joke like there's
moments where like, all right, well, now this is a must win
game. Like there's no must win games.
It's like you get to, I kind of felt that way a little bit in
the Kansas game when you're up that much, they didn't win.
It's not the end of the world. But like, there's these games
where like, you get up by enough and it's like, all right, this
is now going to be devastating if we lose.
And it felt that way for this game.
And then, you know, Minnesota, their credit, cut it to within
eight, I feel like a couple times, maybe 7.
And you know that was a time where a couple of really bad
possessions that could have gotten down to four, three and
then suddenly the crowds grumbling, people are, you know,
getting a little more nervous. Didn't happen like the IU
credit, it didn't happen. They had another, you know,
third was it 15 to two run to start the second-half put
Minnesota away and kind of kept them away most of the game.
Kind of like unfortunately we we were the OP, you know, the the
recipient of that at Nebraska, at Rutgers, where we kind of
just were kept away. But it was nice to be on the
side of it and it's a Minnesota team that Wall, you know, not
one of the best in the Big 10, still boasts a good record.
You know, there can you know their rankings are honestly a
little bit at or a little bit better than Indiana when you
look at the metrics. So All in all, it's a it's a
it's a win that you had to have. It's a good win and I like the
fact that they put it away and kind of for the most part kept
them put away the entire game. Yeah, no.
And look, I think this is where overall, looking at the full 40
minutes, I'll take what we saw out of Indiana in this game.
I I do get concerned about the the run that they let Minnesota
get on in the first half. And again, it's like it just
feels like this has been a repeating issue for this team.
They cannot keep their mental focus, some of its substitution
patterns. Some of it's just I think a
collective lack of will to play at a high level for a full 40
minutes and yet they recovered nicely.
I mean they they let Minnesota go on that run that cut the
lead. I think it was actually to five.
It was 2823 and then it was 4131 at the end of the half for
Indiana. So you know, they clearly made
some changes and started playing hard again.
I just it's baby steps with this team and I mean you could
certainly point to they kind of lost their focus at the end of
the second-half too. I mean, they got outscored by
five or seven in the last 10 minutes of the game.
But look, ultimately as a whole, what we've asked from this team
is that they play consistent and that they at the very least
figure out a way to maintain over the course of time.
And I think that this is as good of an example of that.
Certainly was a better outing for them than, say, the Ohio
State game where they swooned at the end and almost gave it up.
So, you know, individually speaking, this was a big game
for Mackenzie and Baco. He was very good from the field,
4 for eight, from 2/2, for four from three, had four rebounds, 2
assists, only one turnover. You know, from an offensive
perspective, this was one of the best things we've seen out of
him. It was his highest scoring game
so far in an Indiana uniform, played 34 minutes and never
really felt like you needed to take him out throughout the
course of the game, which to me is huge progress for Imbacco.
And again, I mean, I think you have to caveat it a little bit
by, you know, he's not playing against the team that was really
going to be able to punish him for defensive mistakes or really
defend him hard. But still, you know, in these
building block types of situations, you have to get
these games out of Mackenzie and Baco and the fact he was able to
essentially lead the offensive charge, I think is a really good
sign that he's got that in him. I agree.
I I mean the counter side to to that is, and I was thinking this
throughout the game is like it. Fool's gold is maybe not the
right word, but it's like, just can we start replicating these
'cause you look at like Mackenzie and Baco, we had a
really good game against Kansas, you know, Since then, I'm taking
the three Morehead, Alabama, Kennesaw State Games out of it.
You know, Nebraska, Ohio State, Rutgers, and then this Minnesota
game, like, his offensive rating is 919486 and then tonight was
124. So it's like he'll have a good
game. It'll have a couple of subpar
games and then like, Trey Galloway obviously had a great
game against Kansas. Again, taking the other three
kind of nothings out, he has an offensive rating, 828668, and
comes back last night with a 175.
It's like these these highs and lows, and I'm not mentioning,
you know, Malik Renew and Khalil Ware are kind of just steady
like they have become like you're going to get like an
offensive rating of 120. You're going to get basically
the same out of them every single game.
It kind of becomes these other pieces where you know, we we
honestly don't need the 175 offensive rating at a Trey
Galloway. Like, I'd love it, but it's like
we just need to get above 100, but we just need to be up there
and that's that's the we're all right.
I'm not trying to pour water on it, but it's like everyone had a
great game. The the question is can we
replicate this? If we replicate this on the
road, I think is going to be the question moving forward.
Or are these just going to be these blips where it's like, hey
man, the team had some really good games, but they weren't
able to kind of string enough wins together?
I want to come back to that. So put a pin in that.
No, no, no, no, no, no. I think it's a really good
point. I just, I there was a couple
other things I wanted to talk about specifically with this
game. I mean, Trey Galloway, you know,
10 points, you might look at that and say, OK, well that was
an average game, but he had 7 assists and four steals and no
turnovers. And that's the kind of game Trey
has to have if Indiana's going to do well.
Three from three, yeah, well, and and you know, if you, if
you've been following Galloway's shot charts, he has had so many
problems shooting threes from the left side and he hit the two
that he hit were from the left side, which I thought was a
really good confidence booster. And I guess that's how I'm
choosing to look at this game, is that for most of the roster
that got in there and played regularly, you know, I feel like
there was at least something positive you could take away,
even if it was just a relatively mild thing.
Like, well, you know, CJ Gunn only had one turnover.
You know, he had, he had trouble contributing in some other
areas, but he was, he was fine on defense and he didn't take
anything away offensively. And it let the big dogs eat, so
to speak. And look, if you're going to
get, you know, a combined or whatever it is, like 50
combined, 56 points now, 54 points out of Embaco Ware and
renew on a given night, you're going to have a pretty good
chance of winning pretty much every game as long as your
defense is sound enough. And obviously I think there's
more that could be done. You didn't get that much
production out of the the point guard spot.
You know, neither Gabe Cubs nor Xavier Johnson really
contributed that much either in scoring or in getting the ball
where it needed to get to. But they did contribute
defensively and I think Trey Galloway being able to step in
as the primary distributor alongside Malik Renew doing the
same in the post, That's how Indiana can play and and
probably will have to play because I just don't know that
you're going to be able to count on a whole lot of consistency
out of that point guard position.
So you know, All in all, I look at it as a a game Indiana had to
win and they did BA game that Indiana really needed to win
comfortably. And they did see a game that
Indiana needed to get some of its players confidence back
after the Rutgers game. And again, I think they did for
the most part and ultimately it's another win in the Big 10,
Indiana's now four and two in conference well.
And one more thing about this game before we move on, it's
just, you know, after the Rutgers game, you know, that was
a pretty poor offensive rebounding, you know, showing
they did a really good job coming up against Minnesota
having 13 offensive, sorry, 12 offensive rebounds.
They gave up thirteen to Minnesota.
But you know you look at your big guys you have renew you know
doing kind of what he you know 4.
You know 6 total rebounds, 4 defensive.
But I mean my God you look at Khalil Ware's numbers.
He has 14 total rebounds. You know ten of them defensive.
In the Rutgers game he had 17 rebounds 13 defensive, 4
offensive. Like he's just putting these not
as good against Ohio State and Nebraska, but his rebounding
numbers are are there and it does feel like we can get to a
point where we can kind of count on you know where giving us, you
know, 10 to 14 rebounds a game, which is pretty wild.
But he's been so you know that that is where I was critical
earlier. You have to be positive with
just you're at a point where you know people look at last year's
team and it's like, oh, you Trace Jackson gave us who's
going to give you this, which is true and he's giving you a high
level. We're kind of getting to that
point with Wear and Renew where as everyone else in the team is
kind of like what are we getting is this, You know, we can we get
things replicable. These two guys are replicating
basically the same performances every game where they're getting
an offensive rating of like 100 to 120.
You know where's getting you 8 to 12 rebounds a game, putting
up about 10 shots, making about 50% of them, like where is just
a solid line and going to get you that and Renew is pretty
much in the same boat. Like, it's really nice to have
two very steady post presences in the game.
You know, every single game. I yes, absolutely.
And and look ultimately we can talk about individual
contributions. I think what was interesting is
the, you know the bench got shorter in the game yesterday.
I mean, as you had nine people technically play, but really
Caleb Banks barely played in the game and obviously Xavier
Johnson didn't start. I think everybody is familiar
with why that occurred. There's some interesting things
that can come out of this game, but I think so much of it has to
be placed into a larger field of meaning for us to to really get
a lot out of it. I mean there's there's kind of
two different ways you could look at this season so far in
terms of the Big 10 portion of the schedule.
The one I think I am unfortunately, maybe for for
lack of a better term, coalescing around in my head is
that if you look at who this team is beaten, it's been Ohio
State. And then a lot of teams that
probably aren't very good, you know, Michigan and Maryland are
both look like they're in real, real trouble.
And and obviously Minnesota, I mean they've had an OK start to
the season but that was a team I think that was pretty
consistently pick 14th across the board.
And and you can say well hey they've they've won three games
in conference, but their wins so far this season at conference
are Nebraska at home, Michigan on the road and Maryland.
So it's like well everybody's feeding out of the same through
so to speak. But I feel like this Indiana
team, what's what's going to be interesting about them moving
forward is that they are playing incrementally better, even
though our eyes may not be indicating that like
statistically speaking defensively they have gotten
better. It's interesting if you look at
the the conference only defensive statistics for this
for the for the Big 10. Right now Indiana has the
highest defensive efficiency rating in conference games so
far. It's under a point per
possession. They're leading the conference
in opposing teams effective field goal percentage.
They're leading the conference in opposing Team 3 point
percentage. They they've actually, in Big 10
games all told, played pretty good defense.
Even that Rutgers game, which looked like a complete disaster
defensively, wasn't that bad because Rutgers was pretty bad
on on offense. The Indiana offense has been the
opposite, their 12th in the conference in offensive
efficiency. But I say all that because there
have been incremental improvements from what we saw at
the beginning of the year. Where I guess I'm at mentally
right now with this team though, is when I look at the way that
the team has played away from home and I look at the way that
the team plays in Assembly Hall, it feels like a team that is
capable of beating anybody in Assembly Hall.
And then it feels like a team that really lacks that, that
verve, that that work rate that is needed to win games on the
road. And that's not to say that they
won't win games on the road, but it feels like the games that
they would win on the road are likely to be games against teams
like Michigan, Maryland, Minnesota, where they're playing
a team that is just fundamentally worse than they
are. But you look at the rest of the
games on the schedule. I have a hard time right now
looking at this Indiana and team and saying that they will be
able to go into places like Ohio State or Purdue or you know the
some of the other places that they have the rest of the way,
Wisconsin, Illinois and pull off victories.
I'd like to see some signs that that will change because you
know, we're going into this Purdue game coming up on Tuesday
and I wouldn't be shocked if Indiana wins that game.
You know the it's a hostile environment.
Purdue has already gone in and lost at Northwestern, who's a
decent team and lost at Nebraska, who's a decent team.
I wouldn't be shocked if the same thing happened where
Purdue, because of the way that they're constituted, comes into
Assembly Hall and Assembly Hall is is jacked up and Indiana uses
that emotion and wins and that's great.
And I look, I'm not going to turn down wins against Purdue at
home or anybody at home. But I think that the problem
this Indiana team has is that they're going to have to win
some games on the road if they want to make the NCAA
Tournament. And what I saw in the Nebraska
game, when I saw the Rutgers game and even what I've seen in
some of the home games where they've scraped by or, you know,
they let Minnesota go on 11 O run.
I just don't know that this team can do that away from home and
have any real success. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I mean, I have the same feelings.
But I'm also like, I think the next two weeks we're going to
answer a lot because this team. It does, you know, again, the
Minnesota game looked good. It's a nice win, but it's like
this is only five days after Rutgers.
They basically looked dead on arrival for most of that game
and we were all pretty bummed after that game.
You know, I I I think the next couple games going to be
interesting because while the IU has had some games this year
where they have gotten drilled. You know, whether it be UConn or
Auburn or the the Nebraska game. You know for the most part they
haven't had back-to-back games or they've gotten destroyed.
They they you know lose the Yukon they come back and they
beat Louisville. They they had to work for it.
They did. They won.
You know they they've been able to come back.
They did lose two in a row, Auburn and Kansas.
They played really well in that Kansas game.
You know, I think the next stretch is going to be
interesting because my fear is, you know you're playing home to
Purdue at Wisconsin, at Illinois.
Those three games. You.
Yeah, I think they I'm with you.
I think they could beat Purdue. There's also a world where they
just get ground down and beat up pretty bad in all three of those
games. And then I'm very concerned as
like what's the mental state of this team because you can lose
the the one game at Nebraska and get killed and you come back,
you beat Ohio State. It's like all right you know you
you put it all behind you. We're good to go and and this
team kind of seems to go kind of up and down you know just back
and forth. I I worry that if this team
loses 234 in a row in tough margins which is possible given
the schedule, you know are they going to be able to come back
from that without having a win somewhere or is that something
that could actually break this team?
Because this team it it when things are going well they seem
to be good. When they're at home they seem
to be good. When things are tough or they
their backs is you know really against the wall they're on the
road they don't seem to have the ability to kind of fight through
and get there just based on the fact that you know Nebraska and
Rutgers those games they're not doing it they did it against
Michigan. So give them credit for that.
But they've not done it more than they have done it, I should
say. So that that's what I'm curious
to see is if they end up losing 2, three in a row, are they able
to bounce back? Because you know, you look at
that stretch, it's like they could come home to Iowa.
If they're not focused and ready, they could lose that Iowa
game. And suddenly now it's like
you're on a three to four-game losing streak.
Now you're playing Penn State. It's like, all right, it's a
game you got to win and like you got to put it all behind.
You've got to refocus, recenter and don't let things kind of
slide down. So that's that's my fear with
this team is. I I'm not sure how they're going
to be able to recenter if they end up losing two or three in a
row versus just one bad one. No, I think it's a reasonable
question or set of questions to ask.
It's interesting looking forward as we project on things if
Indiana is able to beat Purdue, there is a pathway we're.
Just giving them a win, but yeah.
Well, I'm, I mean obviously it's it's the statistics say it's
unlikely right now. I think Torvick's got Indiana as
a 12 point loser to Purdue. You know the Ken Palms got
Indiana as an 11 point loser to Purdue.
But let's say, I mean, we've seen worse Indiana teams beat
Purdue at home. Purdue's still got a flaw.
Like they just they they're not a perfect team for as good as
they are. Like they still are flawed.
So anyway, I'm with you. I'm just joking.
Yes, let's give. Them a win.
So if they win that there, you know, there is an interesting
like set of of results that happens after that.
Like if Indiana wins all their home games the rest of the way
after that, which I think is possible because you you rattle
it off once you get that past that Purdue game, here's the
home games Indiana has Iowa, Penn State, Northwestern,
Nebraska, Wisconsin and Michigan State.
That's that's not a that you could go 6 and O.
Mizzo may not be coaching Michigan.
State I know, yeah. And you know, and look,
Wisconsin obviously is a tough nut to crack, but they've beaten
Wisconsin recently at home when you know both when Wisconsin's
been good and not so good. So that definitely in this team
is different at home than away territory.
Right. And so, but, and that makes it
interesting because the away games that Indiana has the rest
of the way are Wisconsin, which seems like a bridge too far.
Illinois who I got to say we've We've had our laughs at Brad
Underwood's expense every once in a while, but that for them to
lose such a key player in Terrence Shannon and just keep
going and the way they came back and and beat that beat Michigan
State in that game earlier this week was really impressive.
That feels like a game Indiana's likely to lose.
They got to go to Ohio State also feels like a likely loss.
They got to go to Purdue also feels like a likely loss.
And then they've got Penn State, Maryland and Minnesota as their
last three Rd. games, all of which feel like they're
winnable, you know, for partially the reason that, well,
they've they've beaten two of those teams already and Penn
State might actually be the worst team in the conference
this year in terms of like their overall play.
So you. Know and using that logic you
know I'm I'm with you like you're we're getting a lot of
things here and there but using that logic after the February
10th game at Purdue you have Indiana winning out.
I'm not saying it's crazy but like there's a world where they
could win out and it's like suddenly then they're on a you
know I think this team things could also work on the reverse
of everything I was saying if this team gets on a 3456 game
win streak in the Big 10. I think they it might all just
click in and be like hey this we are good.
Like we could figure this out and it goes in the other
direction. Yeah.
So if you if you use the the the team cast function on Bart
Torvick's website, which I recommend if anybody wants to
kind of look ahead what I just described If Indiana were to
lose the Maryland game on the road.
But when the five of the remaining 6 and and win the
games that we've highlighted, they would be just outside of
the last four in they would be one of the first four teams out
in that scenario given the overall projection.
So that's probably still not enough for Indiana to get in,
but it's probably closer than people think that they can get
to. And we've been saying for a
while, like that particular set of results, Indiana would be
thirteen and seven in the conference heading into the Big
10 tournament. And then you'd have to win some
games by probably at least two games in the Big 10 tournament
to try to get over the over the hump.
You ended you ended the dream there that.
Doesn't happen. Well, that's the thing, although
it's in Minnesota, so no one's going to have an advantage with
that particular tournament. The reason we do all this
though, I think is ultimately, if we're trying to quantify what
this Indiana team can do this year, they're going to have to
show us at some point an ability to get their stuff together on
the road. And I think the disappointing
thing to me about the Rutgers game in particular, but also the
Nebraska game from the previous week is just that.
Those were two golden opportunity games, games where
Indiana was not overmatched talent wise.
Certainly I think has more talent than both of those teams
and yet they fell apart mentally in both of those games for
different reasons. And I just at this point, that
is the open question with this team.
Again, I will not be shocked if they go out and beat Purdue on
Tuesday, but I at this point will be shocked if they're able
to pull it together and win more than like one Rd. game the rest
of the way in the conference. Given what we've seen from them
so far on the road in January in the conference, that's a lot of
that's going to rely I think on, you know, the Xavier Johnson
question, what are they going to get out of Xavier Johnson?
It's, you know, it was that that Ohio State game was such a nice
thing to see him coming off of injury and being able to
contribute and being such a huge statistical part of the game and
and the crowd really fed off the energy And then the Rutgers game
was just the exact opposite. It felt like he sucked the
energy out of the team, you know, in the first half just
with the turnovers and the poor decision making and then
obviously in the second-half with that ludicrous, you know,
punching the guy in the balls play that occurred.
And then he really didn't do a whole lot in this game versus
Minnesota yesterday. And what do you think about this
was a question before? Should he be suspended?
People listen to Assembly call like we were on the live show.
None of us were really happy with what happened and what he
did the Rutgers game. I don't spend too much time on
it, but the question was should he be suspended And you know, I
will answer my own question first.
Like I think Woodson kind of did honestly the worst of all
options. Like you didn't suspend him but
you didn't start him but you did play him.
It's like you you kind of pseudo suspended him by not starting
him and then playing him less, but it's like you didn't suspend
him because you still played him so.
It's like I would have. Just been like either stardom be
like hey I don't think it matters I'm like OK that's
that's your call or suspend it but this was kind of like AII
agree he did something wrong but we still need him to play I
don't know I just I I would have taken one side of the coin or
the other I I probably would have gone for like a one game
suspension but you know but but I don't know I'm curious your.
Thoughts. I thought about this a lot and
and look, every coach handles it differently.
I'm guessing that Woodson looked at the situation and said that
was that was a that was a dumb thing to do.
But at the end of the day, it was part of the flow of the
basketball game and it if you isolate that item outside of
basketball, it's like, well, how could you possibly let that guy
play, you know, why wouldn't you suspend him?
But I think that is different from in Woodson's mind in a lot
of coaches minds. It's not just a Woodson thing.
I'm guessing if it happens on the basketball floor, it's going
to be considered as in the boundaries of play as opposed to
what happened in Northwestern or in that Northwestern game a
couple of years ago where a bunch of guys got suspended for
what happened off the basketball floor.
So look, I I I think certainly not starting him sends a
message. And the message was we're going
to put a guy out there who hustles at, you know, even if he
isn't going to contribute nearly as much offensively as you
would. Is that enough of a message?
I don't know. I mean, I on the one hand, I
understand the, the IU fan frustration with Xavier Johnson.
I've probably defended him as much as anybody on any of the
podcasts over the course of the last three years, 2 1/2 years
now, even. I'm frustrated by the lack of
consistency. But I also think, as we said
earlier this year with Mackenzie and Bako, as we've said with a
couple of other players, CJ Gunn being one of them, this is the
roster Indiana has. Mike Woodson can't afford to
make these broad gestures, you know, for for show, because is
it really going to help the individual player or the team?
You can make an argument that while suspending him will send a
message, I don't know if it will.
And at the end of it all, you got to lay on the plane if
you're Mike Woodson, 'cause people are understandably not
going to be happy with a, with a, A, A season that ends in
something other than a tournament bid.
And we've seen other Big 10 teams and players, you know, not
get suspended for similar actions.
That doesn't make it right. But I think Woodson's mental
calculus is more along the lines of, well, I'm going to send a
message this way and we'll see if it works.
I don't think it really worked. It was not like Xavier Johnson
came off the bench and played stellar in the 17 minutes that
he played yesterday. But I think Woodson's looking at
it and says you know unless this guy just becomes completely
unplayable or is just a a complete net minus, this is a
player you have to have on the floor.
You have to start. You have to get 30 good minutes
out of the game if you're going to beat Purdue, if you're going
to beat some of these other teams down the down the list
here on the schedule and you can say well that's that.
That goes against the principles of IUI.
Don't buy that for a second. I use had lots of players do
things that were not advisable or good or or things that we
would be proud of on the floor before.
I feel like a lot of the calls for him to be suspended were a
reaction to the overall atmosphere around him.
And Johnson does. He's the one that's created that
to some degree, but that's kind of where I landed on it.
It's like ultimately it's, you know, Woodson is going, he's
made the bed. He's the one that is in practice
every day. He's the one that's doing the
personality management with these players.
And I just don't know that this is a team.
As much as we've talked about the mental fragility of this
team, I'm not sure this is a team that can survive that kind
of a rift happening or that kind of a situation where a player
just mentally checks out for the rest of the season.
Like, can you coax Xavier Johnson back into being a
regular top line contributor for Indiana?
I think ultimately that's what Mike Woodson decided on when he
made that decision. No, that that laid out makes
total sense. I would also say you know with
I've I've defended Xavier Johnson, I still will.
I still think he he brings a lot to this team and when he's going
right you know he really adds a piece to this team of driving
and he gets the offense going. But I I would say this that, you
know, as a six year senior, you know, at this point guys don't
normally just completely change who they are.
When you look at Xavier Johnson since career, you know, at least
at IU, it's been spotty and it's been up and down.
You even think back like people just think, oh, he got it locked
in for the Big 10 tournament the first year with him and Trace
Jack that got him into the tournament.
It's like, well, his offensive rating in those games was
1/30/86, 1:25 and then 88 and 78 in the tournament.
He had a run at the beginning of his last year.
He had a nice run, but it was against subpar competition, you
know, starting at Xavier's 127, offensive rating, 110, one
35138, 116. But then even before he got
hurt, Rutgers 52, Nebraska 45, like.
And ever since then, his offensive rating has just been
completely fluctuating. Like, I think for those who are
hoping you know, well, if we can just get X to be kind of this,
it's like I don't think that's ever going to be who Xavier is
on this team. You're either going to get a lot
of good or maybe not so good and maybe, you know, take the whole
suspension piece out. You know, maybe yesterday was an
example of how we need to look at Xavier, Johnson, Woodson as
well. You know, bring him in and you
know yesterday take again all that piece out, he's to have a
great game, like 17 minutes, two points, you know, one assist, 2
turnovers, just kind of was a net, nothing, maybe a small
negative. But he only played 17 minutes
and it's like, I think you you got to put him in and be like,
all right, are we getting good Xavier or not good Xavier?
And if it's good, keep men go for.
If it's not good, it's like we got to, we got to go a different
route, which is what they did last game.
And I think more of that is probably the way to manage him
because I think he's shown when he's good, he's really good, but
when he's bad he's not not helpful to the team.
And it's it really just, it really fluctuates and it doesn't
seem like there's going to be any consistency there for the
rest of the season. It's going to be a fascinating
next couple of days as Indiana, they they they have to, they
have to beat Purdue if they want to continue to keep their hopes
alive of playing in the postseason.
As thin as those are, and we'll just see what happens, I guess.
I mean, this is where Mike Woodson earns his money.
As disappointing as this season has been at times, almost every
result has been, if you just looked at the results, not
something that you would have been shocked by if it had
occurred and we told you that that was what was going to
happen at the beginning of the season.
So as they. I'll ask you this about coming
up for the Purdue game. You know as a as a winning coach
myself you know with a with a great team you know so I I speak
I speak from experience but no as I look at this like I I would
say and again Woodson's there. I know he knows what he's doing,
but it's like I I found it curious that Peyton Sparks
started off the year doing a lot and then we basically he's been
a no show for the last four games, like 3 minutes getting
Rutgers. You would think that Peyton
Sparks would come in kind of big against Purdue as just a guy to
come in push Edie, you know, 'cause some fouls.
But you would also think maybe you want to have him playing a
little bit before that. I'm just curious your thoughts
on like, what's the game plan IU would take against Purdue?
Because while you know Renew, and you know Renew can get into
foul trouble, where is a great post player, but a little more
finesse than Edie or a little less, a little a little less
thighs and muscle than Edie. Arch looks like he was.
And maybe he will play like maybe it's just like, hey, this
is the way he's running it. I I look at that as kind of what
you'd have. I'm just curious, how do you
think you're, you know? If you're Woodson, what do you
do to to to go against Purdue? Well, look, I I don't know that
I think it's an interesting idea in theory to to bring up, but
I'll note that Indiana beat Purdue at home two years ago
with Trace Jackson Davis basically not contributing at
all. They got Pre fouled out like
3000 real quick. They got they got 24 minutes out
of Michael Durr, who in the preceding 5 games had played six
minutes, 5 minutes, 5 minutes, 5 minutes and two minutes.
So I understand your point, but I don't think in a game like
this you will have to have like pre rolled your players in terms
of their minutes and like to to ramp them up.
As far as what the overall plan is, it's a really interesting
question because I think to some degree you know Indiana's plan
in this game and what they will need to do is largely going to
revolve around trying to replicate defensively what they
were able to accomplish last year, particularly in the home
game. I think against Purdue, and if
you go back and remember what that game was like, the reason
Purdue lost that game was not that Indiana did a great job of
keeping Zac Edie from scoring. Zac Edie was 15 of 19 in that
game. He had 33 points, he had 18
rebounds. But but what allowed Indiana to
win that game was Purdue turned the ball over 16 times.
Indiana turned the ball over 8 times.
You know, and it wasn't like Indiana was like, stellar
defensively in that game. Purdue missed free throws and
Purdue turned the ball over. Indiana didn't really miss.
From three, it's like we went nuts from.
Three, right. You know, yeah, Indiana made
four threes. Purdue made six.
Indiana was just hyper efficient offensively and that is what
concerns me about this game. I think Indiana with Mike
Woodson, the as as as bad as the defense has looked at times,
they are going to obviously have to be really vigilant against
Purdue's outside shooters 'cause we have seen that group when you
know when they get hot, they get real hot.
You know that that game they won against Illinois, Purdue ended
up 9 for 19 from three and it felt like they hit a back
breaking 3 every time Illinois had made a run or gotten it
within striking distance. So you know, you're going to
have to pay attention to Lance Jones.
You're going to have to pay attention to Mason Gillis.
But I think ultimately for Indiana, you would almost rather
take your medicine with Edie, use the extra fouls that you're
going to get out of Peyton Sparks coming off the bench.
I'm just worried a little bit about Indiana's ability to to
score efficiently. It's it's going to require them
doing things offensively that they just haven't been
comfortable doing or haven't been consistently doing.
You know, even the game yesterday, we we talked at the
beginning of this podcast about Indiana looking good against
Minnesota. They only scored one point O
four points per possession and that's against Minnesota who's
you know, not nearly as good of a defensive team as Purdue is.
And so look, I think ultimately you're going to have to get
really efficient games out of Malik, Renew, Khalil Ware,
Mackenzie and Bako. You're going to have to force
Purdue into decisions about whether they're going to foul or
whether they're going to let Indiana score down low.
And you're just going to have to get timely outside shooting from
whomever, whether it's Trey Galloway, whether it's Xavier
Johnson, whether it's Mackenzie Imbacco.
That's really the formula at this stage.
You know, can you play hard enough and intense enough
defense against Purdue to to turn them over and and make them
less efficient? I do worry about that as well,
given how efficient or how intensity has been a problem
thus far for Indiana this season.
Yeah, I just, I I look at like Mackenzie Imbacco, like he's had
a nice little run here. He's played better in the home
games. He's shooting better in the home
games to me. If he's playing well like he did
against Kansas or he did against Minnesota, I I think he could be
the real, pardon the pun, X Factor here just because I'm not
sure, you know who who Purdue has to guard on him.
Because if they put Gillis on him, it's like, all right, well
then who's guarding Renew? And it's like the Ellis is
guarding Renew, Then who's guarding Imbacco?
And like, I think Indiana has some pieces there that makes
them tough for a Purdue team that's pretty small on the wings
to guard. But Mbacco has got to be, it
can't be one of the over 7, three games.
Like he's got to be hitting his shots.
He's got to be aggressive because what he's what that's
going to do is put Purdue in a spot where it's like they really
don't have someone to guard both him and renew and and you know,
you know you're going to get it out of renew.
So I look at Mbacco as really the the key there and you know
if I'm Woodson, it's like I try and get him some early shots,
maybe a couple of early looks maybe not even 3, just an early
runs the basket. You'll see it go down.
Get comfortable, get him in a good spot because I think he
could be a real key in that game.
It'll be an interesting one. It should be a pretty hyped up
assembly hall looking forward to seeing what Indiana's able to do
with all of that. So we'll see what happens.
You know, I mean, again, this is a game if Indiana can win and it
gives them some confidence, it it helps to reset the narrative
on the season and it lays out a pathway where Indiana can make
the NCAA tournament, albeit is probably a very low seed.
If they lose the game, if it's a similar game to Kansas where
they play pretty well and then come up short at the end, you
know, then they've almost run out of chances.
Unless they do something way out of the boundaries of what we
think that they can do, like win at Wisconsin or win at Illinois,
nothing's off the table. But this feels like a golden
opportunity and you just wonder, like will this team be able to
get it together mentally and intensity wise to actually take
advantage of that opportunity? Yep.
So last thing before we go, as I mentioned IU women playing
tonight against Iowa, that's a huge game for a variety of
reasons. Some travel on that team.
What? Yeah, Caitlin Clark actually
plays for Iowa playing that game.
I don't know. I think maybe.
But. But your best of luck to the
women is that's going to be, you know, last year people forget it
took a Caitlin Clark three at the buzzer for for Iowa to win
that game. And I actually think Indiana has
a better match up against Iowa this year than they had last
year. As as Zenano.
The the, the post player for Iowa that really couldn't be
counted particularly well. Defensively is not there
anymore, so it's going to be interesting.
I mean, I think Mackenzie Holmes is going to have to have a big
day and Indiana's just going to have to play with a consistent
level of intensity there as well, which the women, while
they played very well this year. There have been some moments in
some of these Big 10 games so far where you'd like to see the
defensive intensity, especially maintain a bit more throughout
the course of the contest. But should be a fascinating
game. Looking forward to seeing what
happens with it. And obviously, I mean at this
point it's it's a great game for women's basketball and it's
great that there's this much attention being paid to it by
Fox, even if they're not really paying attention to the game as
much as they are a player. But to some degree you you'll
take that. And if Indiana can go in and and
win the game at Iowa City, well, that's a heck of a statement
right there and you get Iowa back here in five weeks at
Assembly Hall. So should be interesting.
Yeah, no, I mean, this is, this is where you can not only say
spoil the party, but like this is where the Indiana can make a
name for themselves. They go, you know, and it is the
Caitlin Clark show, but she's also awesome to watch.
But you know, Indiana wins that. That takes the takes the piece
of it, yeah. All right.
With that, we'll go ahead and wrap things up.
One last thing. Yeah, go ahead.
You had a football. I've I texted this to you.
I know everyone's been thinking this, but it's just it's it's
funny joke, you know 2019, if I would have told you that our
offensive coordinator is going to be in five years, four years,
the five years the head coach of Alabama football, you would have
had me committed like you would have been like, all right, I
mean, I probably would have tried to have you committed
anyway, but yes, go on here. But you would have been like now
I have a reason like now I have audio reason on the podcast like
we are in Bizarro World like complete bizarro world.
It's amazing. I mean the it's a it's a
remarkable climb but I think you know what you see in in in
college football these days, there's such an A focus on
innovation and I'm actually I I I I tip my hat to Alabama on
making this higher. I don't know if it's going to
necessarily work out. You know, I think to some degree
you know you you do. There is a different environment
down there in recruiting. But I think that that's
something that can be overcome. You've got a lot of talent on
that roster to begin with and and Caitlyn Deboer is just such
a genius offensively. He's got such a unique demeanor.
It's somewhat similar to, you know, to some degree to the, you
know, some of the coaches we've seen even saving to some degree,
like he sticks out as different from a lot of the competition
and I think he'll continue to stick out as different from the
competition in the SEC. But if it is wild to think
about, you know you've got the head coach of Alabama is a
former IU offensive coordinator from not that long ago.
The strength and conditioning team came from Indiana.
You know, it's it is fascinating and you go back and look at that
particular season, that 2019 season and who who knew that
would be? You know, like it's like the,
you know, the Nexus point for college football for the next 5
to 10 years ended up running through Bloomington at that
time. I think this also says probably
not going to be able to pull Caleb Debord back to.
Indiana Yeah, you know the. Universe where we get him back.
Well, and this one. Of the one of the things I was
going to say on that, like I keep seeing these things pop up
every once in a while. Like we'll see Indiana had him
and and and couldn't hang on to him and it's like are we really
serious about that? Like, this is a guy who he was
here for one year. He has no ties to Indiana.
He did a great job and he got a head coaching offer and he went
and took the head coaching offer and you had a head coach who had
just had one of the most successful seasons in Indiana
football history. In that season you you weren't
going to like be like, hey Tom, you just went eight and five,
We're going to let you go. So this guy who's never been a
head coach can be promoted to take over that.
I, I, I understand how the optics look to some people who
don't pay attention to these things.
But it's always funny that people think, oh, if we'd
offered Kailyn Deborah more money, he was going to stay as
offensive coordinator. Like, this is a guy, even even
the conversation around him getting hired at Alabama.
I mean, Washington reportedly offered him close to $10 million
a year to stay at Washington, and he'll make slightly more at
Alabama. But there was a line in one of
the reports yesterday. I forget who had it, but it was
like, clearly Deboer is making decisions on something other
than money. And look, we want to be a head
coach. You're going to go be a head
coach. You you, you want to climb the
ladder. You're you're going to be
motivated by things other than, hey, here's an extra $100,000 to
remain as offensive coordinator. So I just think.
I'm sorry. I've heard those, those things
of like, you know, God, we had it like, all right, you are 100%
right, There's no timeline. Given where we were in 2019, one
of our best seasons ever. We're just going to fire our
head coach, promote our offensive coordinator.
But like, even if we did, all right, let's, let's just take
that extra timeline. We do that.
Pennix stays. We have two great years.
Maybe we get to the Football Playoff.
Like, guess what? We're still losing them to
Alabama. We become Washington.
And then we there's no world where he's like, you know what,
I'm so proud of Indiana for giving me this opportunity.
I'm going to tell Bama to go # sand that I'm going to stay
here. Like because I guarantee
Indiana's not going to offer him $10 million a year.
So, like, even if we had done the ludicrous of keeping him at
that time, we're still not keeping him.
So it's like, that doesn't matter.
It's none of it matters. I'm just you.
Go ahead, go go ahead, please, I.
Was going to say I've I've often wondered and I I I understand
the answer is probably just you know if you're competitive and a
coach you want the the ultimate you know the ultimate challenge.
But I do often wonder this this thought process that must go
through in someone like the boar's head where it's like you
could you can go to Alabama and like.
But if it doesn't work, you got probably two or three years and
it's like, all right, moving on, like we're going to fire you and
moving on and he'll get another job would be all right.
But what he did at Washington, you know, he could have
leveraged that for, you know, 9 million a year and he could have
stayed at Washington for 20 years.
He could become like a legend. It's just it's interesting as
some guys like, you know, Mark few is just like, I'm just gonna
stay at Gonzaga, like I'm just gonna be here and become become
the legend of this town. I would also say too, it's like
there is the piece where it's like for me, it's like I could
live in Seattle. Just kind of like a hip kind of
cool place get some tech going on.
Or I can go to Tuscaloosa where it's like, well, where's
Microsoft here in Tuscaloosa? I can't.
Where's the fish market? Like I will, I will say, I mean
Tuscaloosa, I, I like it as a college town.
But your point is well taken And and look again, you know, I I've
always felt like you like in college football to English
soccer in a lot of ways. Like, there are just jobs that
are above the fray. And I think I feel bad on the
one hand for Washington fans, but on the other hand, it's like
this is how this works. I mean I think Washington had to
be looking at this and saying wow, you know, we have this
great coach that we hired out of the the Mountain West and we're
we're joining the Big 10. We made it to the national
championship game. We won a PAC 12 title like,
we're in the upper echelon. And then you find out very
quickly that you're not in the upper echelon.
You're actually kind of on the borderline between tiers 2 and
three still as a program. And that's a that's a tough
thing to take. But I think this is what you
have to get ready for if you're in college football.
It it takes a long time to elevate yourself to a level as a
program and as A and and the fans obviously don't have a lot
of say in this but you don't just climb the ladder overnight.
It's like, you know I'll borrow something from from someone that
said this earlier to me like This is why if if Kurt Cignetti
wins like 8 or 9 games at IU, like don't be shocked if he
leaves for a bigger program. It's.
I I kind I know this was when we were like I I'll take a
different approach to this. I kind of slight I I think
you're right I think there are jobs that are above the fray but
I do think as looking at and probably IU is not the best
choice because we are near the bottom of the list.
But I I do think that we are hitting a world where if you're
a Big 10 or SCC school, you can only lose your coach to another
Big 10 or SCC school. Like as the rift grows in
dollars outside of like maybe Florida State.
It's like North Carolina is just not going to have the money to
buy out a coach from a Big 10 or an SCC school.
If assuming those schools are like willing to put the money
up, which is always kind of been a high use problem too.
But like, I do think this is where Washington was kind of
like they had the hot coach and unfortunately a job open.
It's like there are probably probably the Tier 1A of like
Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Auburn, like there's the top
level of those conferences. But I do think for all the other
Big 10 SCC schools, you're kind of on a level playing field and
where it used to be, you know, Indiana could lose a coach to
like, you know, Arizona or North Carolina.
Like I do think there's going to be over the next five or six
years a bigger divide between the the two major conferences
and everybody else. So I do think it's going to
become less and less and it's like if you're Mississippi State
do you want Signetti or it's like.
So I do think the number of suitors is going to start
dramatic dramatically dropping. You may be right.
I mean, I don't. It may not be a complete the
suitors will drop. A lot of it will be.
Are you going to maintain the level of financial support?
You got to pay at the level, yes.
But, but look, I think there's something to be said for it, and
it just it feeds into this larger separation of college
sports into. The schools that are serious
about committing the money and the ones that aren't as serious
about committing the money. So and watch is in a tough spot
because they did the right thing.
They're in the Big 10, they're committing the money.
And it's like, there's probably only three jobs that Deborah
would have left for. And unfortunately one of them
was open and that's it. The other thing that I was
talking with a friend about, like, who would go to the
Alabama job when we were discussing it, I brought up
Deborah. I want credit for it.
I was. I said I could see that being a
move. The other one that we talked
about that I thought was funny was like, maybe you go Ryan Day
and just like he goes from, but I'm like, what's funny if like
Ryan Day goes is like he loses one game to Georgia.
It's like all the baggage of the Michigan losses, just move over
'cause then you're an Alabama fan, You're like, all right man,
this guy can't win the big game. Like, he's probably fired either
way if he loses to Michigan this year or he goes to Alabama and
then loses to Georgia. But he didn't, he didn't do it.
He's still at Ohio State, but he's still in the spot where he
loses to Michigan. He probably gets fired.
It's clear. I mean, look you, you look at
the the coaches that got tied directly to it.
It was Mike Norvell. It was Steve Starkeesian.
It was Caitlin de Boer. I mean, it was exactly the group
that Alabama picked out of. I just, I tipped my hat to
Alabama for not feeling like they had to keep it within the
Sabin tree. I think one of the big problems
that a lot of schools fall into is they feel like, well, we've
had success, so we have to keep it in the family.
We have to have somebody who, you know, graduated from here or
coached here for a significant amount of time before.
And that more often than not leads to real problems in
college football and college basketball.
Because if you go through the history of the sport, there's
very few examples of keeping it in house, being a superior
option to going out and getting a fresh look and a fresh outlook
on things and a new mind who can come in and do what they need to
do. So.
So I think this will work out for Alabama.
It'll be fascinating to watch it occur.
Yeah. Anyway, all right, We'll go and
wrap things up for Scott. I'm Galen.
This is Crimson Cast. We appreciate you joining us,
folks. As always, be sure to stay tuned
throughout the course of the week for content from the back
home network. And we'll be following up with a
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We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the
Bison. So long, everybody.