You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. All right folks, welcome back to
Crimson Cast. Got here with you.
Excited for this podcast today. Before we get going, just a
quick shout out to two of our friends.
First off, we have Upland Brewery with the Hoosier game
day Logger. I got a couple of more cans of
the Hoosier game day logger filled up my fridge.
If you listen to last pod you know I was drinking it on the
patio watching IU beat Northwestern.
So definitely check them out. They are at all Upland
locations. You got a week off time to stock
up and then when we pack the rock in two weeks against
Nebraska, you can buy it at Memorial Stadium.
Upland Brewing Company reminds you to a drink responsibly go
Hoosiers and also our friends at Home Field apparel, all kinds of
good stuff. They have the new Indiana script
like 90s throw over. The thing is awesome.
Check them out. You can save 15% off your first
purchase by using the promo code HOME 23.
So check out home field apparel. All right, business time is
over. We are excited to bring to our
home and home. We're bringing Alex Bozicz from
inside the hall onto Crimson Cast podcast.
I was on his podcast a couple weeks ago.
So Alex, welcome to welcome to our stadium, man.
Thanks for coming over. Thanks for having me, man.
As you know, I have the utmost respect for you and Galen.
You're the the pod fathers of podcasts for Indiana University
sports. You guys do a great job over
Crimson cast and you know, it's been awesome to see the, the
response that you've gotten to the football podcast this
season, because I know there's been a lot of long dark years of
podcasting about IU football, a lot of terrible seasons.
So I I, I'm happy for you guys that you actually have a good
product to talk about it. I know it's exciting for you and
Galen as well. So just wanted to put that out
there. I know your listeners are
thrilled about it as well and and I'm personally am just still
that you guys are getting a legitimate football team to talk
about this year. I I appreciate that.
It's definitely fun. It's funny to hear you say that.
I've heard this from a lot of different people and it's, we
joke on the last part. It's almost like having a kid
that's like graduating college feel like, oh, I'm so proud of
you. Like he's walking like he's done
so well for himself. And it's like you put in so much
time and effort and it's just almost like the, the, the proud
father at graduation as my kid is at least getting it.
I wouldn't say it's validatory, but at least like getting a
diploma is where we're at right right now.
Yeah, they move up the rankings a little bit more.
You could be talking about valedictorian, right?
There's there's talk of being a contender for the for a playoff
spot, which is incredible to think.
About it's incredible. I think it's legitimate too.
And I think they've they've done it.
It's it's funny. We started Crimson cast because
we were both obviously big bat. I mean went to IU always a big
bat, big basketball fans. We started right at probably the
nadir of Indiana basketball. Like I think I have to go back
and look at his like the end of the Kelvin Samson.
I think right when Samson was fired and we brought in creams
like that's when we were like, this is the time.
This is the time to strike. IU is hot.
And then within a year or two, you know, both Galen and I were
going to football games or I had season tickets.
He was working his way back and we both had he's like, well,
let's let's talk like no one's talking football.
Let's start that and end up become more of our brand than I
thought it would be for starting this in kind of a, a basketball
mode. But no, it does feel like we're
on the precipice of something, which got me thinking.
Have you thought about, you know, you have inside the hall?
Have you thought about inside the rock?
Like let's let's get a a subsequent page going like just
what you need and a whole other website to run.
You know, it's funny, somebody at IU when Kevin Wilson got the
job, talked to me and said, you know, we think you should start
doing football stuff. And I, I just my interest level
in football is more from, I would call it more of a
recreational interest. I'm not, I'm not a die hard
football person, never have been.
I've, you know, I grew up in southern Indiana, New Albany,
and I was kind of, you know, in the middle of, you know,
Louisville, KY, Indiana, and it was always basketball for me.
And you know, I, I guess my formative years, IU football
wasn't really something that that drew a lot of attention.
And so it's harder for me to get interested in.
I will say that this year I have made it a point to watch the
games. I was at a party with at some
friend's house over the weekend and made sure they had the IE
Northwestern game on, was watching it.
And so it's also nice for me to kind of be able to, you know,
for basketball, you know, I go to some of the games, I'm on
press row, I've got a press pass.
I can't really root for any outcome.
You know, selfishly, I wanted to do well for the the business,
but from a football perspective, you know, I'm not a member of
the media. So I can actually enjoy the
success, you know, I of, of the program and it's, it's been fun
for that perspective, but it would also kind of feel weird to
just, you know, jump in now. It's like, you know, you waited,
you know, you had this website for 17 years and all of a sudden
how you football is good. You want to jump in like I, I
don't, I don't think people would be running to read my
thoughts on IE football. So, I mean, I'll leave it to you
guys like you and some of the other, you know what, Hoosier
Huddle's one of them. Hoosier huddle, I mean bite side
Bison Taylor does a great job with his sub stack.
There's been a nice little, you know, we had Punt, John punt for
quite a while and those guys just.
Kind of, yeah. I remember those.
Guys, those guys just tapped out.
They were. Like they were asking me like
they were super nice guys. I think they were just trying to
figure out how to grow a following.
And that was a long, long time ago.
And I, you know, I tried to help them as much as I can.
They were, they were out there towards the end of the Allen,
you know, right? They kind of stopped doing
stuff. They did they they've shut it
down. We had them on a couple weeks
ago. They shut it down about two or
three years ago. Yeah.
By the way, for those who are wondering, like this is actually
this podcast is going to be a little bit different than the
one Alex and I did because I figured the Venn diagram of
people who listen to your pod and my pod is probably pretty
similar. So I, I don't want to do just
another, let's preview IU basketball at some point near
the end. We'll talk about the upcoming
season. I just I wanted to talk to you
just kind of as another player in this sphere about these kinds
of things, just, you know, starting a website covering IU
basketball all these years, 17 years.
So, you know, that's what kind of go back to the free flowing
conversation. That's that's what this podcast
is going to be. So people are like, man, what
are they going to talk about Balo?
What are we going to talk about the season?
Like what we'll get to that at the end.
But I also think we, if you want that, I would go back and listen
to the podcast that you and I did a couple weeks ago on your
feet. So I think we hit a lot of those
topics. I will also say we're recording
this Monday, October 7th. I'll probably save this and
release it later on in the week. Just kind of a dead period with
IU football not having a game this weekend.
So if something wild happens like between now and then and I
and I release it and we don't talk about it, that that would
be why. So anyway, back to this.
You know, you you said inside the hall has been around 17
years. Like the first thing is just I'm
curious and and by the way that the respect goes both ways.
I I love what you guys do. I think you guys obviously are
one of the first you know, I don't say blogs out there, but
websites doing it. You guys nailed the name like
just on naming is such a hard thing.
You guys nailed it. But you've had, I've always
thought the kind of the most like pointed view of Indiana
basketball, like a very Fairview of of what you're looking at.
There's been a lot of other sites out there.
I think some of them take either a way too positive you a way too
negative. You you you guys have felt like
you've always been the most objective, I should say about
it. And, you know, you kind of call
it like, you see, it's like, I've always appreciated that.
But I'm just curious, you know, why when you know, tell us about
like starting inside the hall and like, why?
Why did you decide to start that when you did?
Yeah. How, how long do we have, Scott?
Do we have? Or Crimson cast, baby, we can
go, We can go 90 minutes, two hours.
It's yeah. OK, well, I'll, I'll try to give
the most concise version of this.
So, you know, I just kind of on my background a little bit.
You know, I, I started, I, I went to New Albany, which is
obviously in southern Indiana. I started my college experience
at IU SE, which is the regional campus down here and went to IU
then for a year and a half and then actually came back and
finished up at IUS. So I kind of a disjointed path
to a college degree. I did, I did graduate in, in
four years. You know, I wasn't a big, I was
a college basketball fan growing up.
I wasn't a big like necessarily IU fan, you know, I followed the
program, but I, I, I just loved college basketball.
I remember some of my earliest memories of, of watching IU
games in the early 90s. I remember some of those teams
were, were great fun, fun to watch teams.
And I still remember, you know, the year Alan Henderson got hurt
and IU could have definitely done some, some damage had that
not happen. But anyway, just kind of give
you a little background on, on that.
Obviously, my dad's been a sports writer for a long time,
started out at the Louisville Career Journal.
I think it was maybe the Louisville Times at that point
in the late 70s. And so I grew up in a house
where, you know, we had the Hoop Scoop coming in the mail with
the recruiting rankings. We had the Sporting News coming
in the mail. We had every morning I was
reading the newspaper. So sports were always kind of
just like ingrained in me from an early age.
And I was more of also my dad's a huge White Sox fan, so I was a
baseball fan too. But sorry for this year.
Sorry, sorry for your, your loss this year.
Horrible, horrible. But anyway, you know, so I, I
always was interested in sports and, but when I came, I got out
of college, I graduated with a political science degree.
I had no idea what I wanted to do.
Like, I thought I wanted to go to law school.
I didn't obviously end up doing that.
And I I started working kind of nights and weekends at the
Courier in Louisville, taking like high school scores, like
they would call in the games and I would write a little blurb up.
I was like just trying to break into the industry and went have
any way to get involved because I love sports and I didn't
necessarily want to do exactly what my dad was doing, but you
know, I was interested in it was something to do.
So I did that. And I kind of saw like, you
know, I followed pig. I knew pigs before I started
inside the hall because a friend of mine that I'm Matt Dennison
down here in southern Indiana does a radio show was was
friends with pigs. And so I've met him a couple
times and had a ton of respect for what he was doing and
followed a lot of the other IU websites as well.
But you know, so so I, I come out of college and I, I knew
Eamon Brennan a little bit. It was at IU and Ryan Carazza,
who's now still with me at inside the hall through my
sister who went to IU and worked at the daily student with them.
And, you know, I, as I just kind of watched what they were doing.
They were blogging and other websites and I was like, there's
really no place like where there's just guys writing about
IE basketball with maybe not with a press pass, but just like
kind of giving their thoughts. I'm like, this is not a terrible
idea to start this up and we'll see what happens.
And that's kind of how the idea was, was born.
I reached out to them and we, we kind of started talking about it
and they, they were in that, you know, they, they were still
young, interested and wanted to do something like that.
And we, we talked mostly via e-mail, which I still have those
emails and look through them from time to time.
And we started trying to come up with a name.
I'll give Eamon credit. He did come up with inside the
hall. So I always joke with him.
Don't ask for any royalties Now. It's been been too long.
I'm I'll keep. We're keeping the name.
Yeah, it's like. The Nike swoosh.
Yeah, he, he, he obviously started it with us, the three of
us, and he moved on pretty quickly because he was, you
know, a superstar in the career. He went to ESPN.
It was like, all right, we started inside the halls like in
the December, 10th December, I think, or later in 2010, he
wrote a post like, all right, guys, I can't, I really, I can't
really dabble on this anymore. Like I'm going to work for ESPN.
I'm writing about college basketball.
So we're still for him, obviously, but me and Ryan have
kept at it and it's been like a learning experience for me
because I didn't really start it with the idea of like this is
going to be my job or my business.
There was a lot of, you know, there was 3 or 4, three or four
years when we first started it and wrote everything.
And I don't think earned any money from it.
It was like just a hobby. And so it's, it's grown into
obviously a business and some days it feels more like work
than others. But I still kind of go back to
the fact that it was something that I was just interested in
and had a passion for sharing my thoughts on on the subject.
And I think that's in any business, that's kind of the
best path you can take is, you know, try to do something that
you have a passion about, passion about or are interested
in and and usually doesn't feel like work.
Yeah, and it's, it's funny, we have, I, I feel wild saying
this. We have younger listeners
because I don't feel old, but we're old.
Sorry, but it's, you know, it's it's weird to go back to those
times when you're right. I mean, you know, outside of
pigs, there was just no place for anyone to go who was into IU
basketball. And I kind of, you know, that's
that's a little bit how Crimson cast started.
GAIL and I had that background, but you know, I was living, I
moved to Houston out of college and I lived in Saint Louis and
it was like it was a struggle to get information on IU
basketball. You'd like search ESPN.
And it's like if we weren't ranked, it kind of sucks.
It was like, damn, we're not going to be on TV.
No one's going to write about us.
Like, I had to have my parents send me stuff for the Herald
Times, like their website. It was kind of OK.
And it, it, it's amazing to look back and think that, you know,
now we live in a universe where it's like, well, of course this
makes sense. But it's like there was just
nothing. Barely getting scores, let alone
like, you know, recruiting updates or, you know, a Big 10
perspective from an Indiana point of view that just didn't
exist before, you know, 2009 or so.
Yeah, I mean, there was Hutch was doing some stuff I remember
as indie * and he had like A blog, but, and there was at one
time there was a, there was a blog on like I think the Courier
Journal's website had like A blog for IU, for U of L and for
UK that they updated. But yeah, you're right, there
wasn't a ton of other resources out there.
And I didn't go into the idea was like, I'm going to compete
with Peaks. Like I knew Peaks was already.
And he'd been doing it since like 1998 or 99.
It had a really dedicated following.
And I was friendly with him. I was, I always, it was always
weird like when I first started it because I would see him at
different things and I didn't want him to think I was like
trying to like step on his toes or anything or like I had, I
have a ton of respect for him. And you know, I still see him at
from time to time at different events.
Like last year he came home for or he came to a game at in
Bloomington and got a chance to talk to him.
Like I, I just respected the hell out of what he did and like
in terms of just building that community and everything.
And I figured that the fan base was such that, you know, there
was enough interest if if we put our thoughts out there, we were
just hopeful that somebody cared about what we had to say.
And I feel like with anything, you have to like do it for a
consistent period of time and show people that you're serious
about it before they'll take you seriously.
It's not like you can just start writing something and then like
six months, all the sudden you have a ton of followers, a ton
of readers. It was a lot of time where we're
writing stuff probably that nobody read and but we just kept
over and over a consistent period of time.
And I think that's how you kind of build a following and build
trust with your readers. That's, you know, the, the, the
people always ask me like, you know, how do you build a
following? And I'm like, you got to be
consistent. Like you can't post like for
Crimson Cash, right? I mean, if you posted 3 podcast
episodes this week and then you didn't post another one until
February, people would be like, where's the podcast?
Like you're, you're consistent. Like you, you got to show people
that you're, you got some skin in the game.
So that to me was and it still is like the the consistency is a
huge part of it. No, I agree.
And that's something I get asked that every so often too.
Like, you know, how do you get into this?
And it's like, well, like I, I think I'm very tangentially in,
but it's like you, just you, you start doing it and like, if you
do, you want to write about IU basketball or you want to do a
podcast or a video cast or like whatever, like start doing it
like just, there's nothing stopping.
And I'm, I'm with you, do it. And I think the key is also like
there's probably going to be some lean years on the start.
Like it's very, you know, we, we had, you know, I our, our first
couple of years, we were probably doing it just for Galen
and I like we actually found, we went back.
I was going through my Google Drive and I found the first like
year or two of Crimson cast audio and it's wild.
It's just like, it is so wild to listen to it.
And it's like we're doing this just basically for ourselves and
just kind of testing out and trying things.
I think the other thing that you said that I think is I've always
felt too is you know, people ask like, you know, you know,
somebody starts a new podcast, you feel competition like no,
like I the more people in the space, if they're doing it with
their own perspective and they have something there.
Like to me, it's like I I want more people in the space because
it's great and I love what you do.
I love what we're doing. You know, there's like the
hysterics came in, they had a different viewpoint and it's
like, all right, that's that's cool.
Like I the more people in is better.
You know, we we're obviously big fans like Taylor Layman and bite
sized Bison. You know, he's looking at it
from a different, you know, football from a much different
perspective. You know, I think if you're just
coming in trying to copy someone else, that's a little bit.
But like, you know, if you come in and you have your own voice
and you just start doing it and you you're consistent.
You know that that's how you start.
I found it interesting, you know, with all of these tools
available, but now it doesn't feel like there are more shows
and websites popping up and or maybe I'm just not searching it
out enough. I feel like little ones pop up
here and there, but for a fan base that says devoted and for
students who are as into it and have all of this stuff at their
disposal, I'm surprised there are 25 other websites like
inside the Hall or 30 more podcast doing this.
Not that I want more competition.
I just, that's one thing that I've been interested in the last
like 10 years is that there isn't a lot of other people out
there doing it. It.
I don't know. I just.
I find that interesting. Yeah.
I mean, I think now it, it's, I think the hard part is breaking
in and I think that you might, there might be things you never
see because they were started and then somebody did it for a
couple weeks or a couple months and then kind of gave up because
they weren't getting a creating any traction.
And it's harder now than it was when, you know, when you started
with Crimson cast or when I started inside the hall.
It's a different completely. I mean, look how much the
internet's changed over that period of time.
I mean, it's Twitter wasn't even, we weren't even on Twitter
when inside the hall started or X, whatever they're calling it
now. But I think that was I was
looking at. I joined in 2009 and I'm like, I
can't even really remember a time before that.
And there was actually a couple years and it's just the way
information is exchanged now is just completely different.
And it's going to continue to change.
So that that's the other thing is if you don't continue to
evolve with the market, then someone else is going to, you
know, pass you or take take from your readers.
And I agree with you. I'm not.
I think the competition's a great thing because you give
people an option of finding kind of what they what they like and
what they enjoy. And you know, it helps make
everybody else better, right? If it was just if you were the
only podcast talking about IU football or I was the only
website or, you know, Ryan and I were running the only website
that talked about IU basketball, It's like how how is that
helping disseminate, you know, information to people?
Because, you know, it's just one perspective.
And I think it's good to have as many perspectives as possible.
So it's, yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun still, but it's also,
it's just. For me, the, the biggest
challenge is like learning the business side of things, because
when you start something like this, you don't you do it as a
hobby, right? And you're not, you didn't, it
wasn't like I was formally trained and like how to run a
small business, how to, you know, organize that and all the
other stuff that kind of comes with that from that perspective
are things that I'm like, that's not, I just want to write the I
just want to write stories and share my perspective.
But now there's so many other things that come with it that I
have to think about that I'm still learning those things
everyday. Yeah, we, we never took that
next step. We kept it in hobby face.
We didn't go business. I'm curious early on, what was
the process like getting press credentials from, from IU and
talk about maybe some of your first experiences like covering
IU as part of the media, because that, that's something, you
know, I, I think for what you guys were doing, obviously, you
know, you, you wanted that access was going to make it, you
know, you weren't just going to be like from a fan's perspective
and just you, you want and having that access would
definitely help. It's something I know for us, we
just always kind of took the approach of like, I don't, I
don't think that helps us at all.
And I think it'll, you know, we can be a little bit probably, I
don't think it affects your judge mental ability, but I
just, I don't know something we just never went down that road.
So I'm just curious what that process was like early on when
you're just like a website who's writing stuff and you know, you
go to IU and like, what what the hell are you talking about?
I'm assuming they're probably like a little bit dismissive
from the get go. Well, it was, you know, when we
started out, we didn't use our real names like we had nicknames
that we wrote on the site. And so that was like the 1st 2
1/2 three years. And we, we finally got to the
point where I think I got to the point where like, I wanted to
start going to some stuff like going to games.
And so I don't remember if it was JD Campbell reached out to
me or I reached out to him. But to this day, you know, JD
has obviously moved on from IU, but we still talk like this is a
relationship that was built over a long period of time.
And in many ways, JD was so, so helpful for me in terms of just
kind of getting me in the door there.
And he was very receptive of what we were trying to do.
Like once he knew who we were and what we were, what we were
about, what we were trying to do is very receptive of what we
were doing and was what to give us credentials.
And so it wasn't like a, there wasn't ever a time I was like,
I, you was going to say, no, you, you're not welcome here,
you can't come. So I think, I think putting our
names on everything kind of helped kind of solidify our
legitimacy. And then once we did that, we
started to to cover games and, and then obviously, you know,
with me not living in Bloomington, I think really the
thing that helped us was being able to, and Galen helped a lot
with this and still does now from time to time with like
helping us identify students at IU that could work with us.
Because obviously I'm not going to be, there was a time when I
went to every game and that that's kind of old after a
while, like. A lot of driving.
Driving home at 2:00 AM and so we've got students on the ground
there in Bloomington that are doing a lot of the game coverage
and, and being at press conferences after games and
things like that. Now that that really help out
from that perspective. But no, they were IE was great.
You know, Fred Glass was always super nice to to me and had him
on the podcast a couple years ago.
Dolson's been on the podcast and it's always nice and friendly.
And obviously JD and now the Sid now Charlie Duffy, Jeff Keg
there. They've always been super
accommodating. So I think they've been no, I
can, I can say they were far more welcoming than a lot of
like the schools that we like, we try to go cover Rd. games
for. I can tell you a story one time
from it was the Oladipo Zeller season where they were number
one for a lot of the year. So the 2000, what 1213 year?
Yep, Yep. And and we, I was pretty, we
were pretty deep into coverage by that point.
Like, we had a established following and we were, we were,
I was a member of the Basketball Writers Association and I had,
you know, other people vouching on my behalf.
But Ohio State for some reason didn't want to let us cover the
game there. And so Cream found out about it.
And he was like, you couldn't believe like that they didn't
want to let me in. And so he somehow working with
JD, JD was like, we're going to get you in.
Just don't worry about it. It's not a not a big deal.
So I show up at the arena and I, I send him a text or whatever.
So he sends somebody up there with like this, this ticket.
And I'm sitting like directly behind the bench with my laptop
right there, the IU bench. Yeah, this is, I'm like, JD,
this is like, I remember somebody sent a screen grab like
on TV and like, what are you doing behind the bench?
Like I'm sitting there next to Marni Mooney, who was like the
at that time, the director of like the academic and all the
parents and stuff were behind me.
And I'm like on my laptop right there, like trying to like do
things. And I'm like, this is great,
like great seat. Like I'm in the building, but
I'm thinking to myself, how am I going to get in the press
conference? Like, how's this going to work?
And so they handed me this pass. It was like this, you know,
whatever, all access type thing. And I and I went in the media,
remember the game and filmed the filmed the press conference.
And so that was, it sounds like the only time I can remember
like that somebody didn't like want to let us in.
But other than that, I feel like there was a process at one
point, like from the Basketball Writers Association, where they
kind of saw where websites were going and they made this task
force to identify websites that were in their eyes, legitimate
in terms of being being able to get credentials.
And we were we went through a vetting process and us and
there's an AUM hoops, which is Michigan site that we're really
close with. They were on the list and some
other websites. And so once the Basketball
Writers Association published this lit this list, anytime
somebody kind of gave pushback on credentials, it was like I
kind of was able to point to that and say, hey, like we're
not just some 5 by night site that just popped up, like we're
actually trying to cover the team in a legitimate way.
And you know, where we are a website, but I think it took a
lot of time for people just to kind of understand like the IT
was for a long time was like, we don't credential websites.
Certain places like Ohio State was like, you don't credential
websites and they've let us in since it's no big deal.
But that was, you know, 11 years ago.
So I will say from an IE perspective, though, they were
kind of one of the first schools that really kind of looked at
websites as something that was legitimate.
And they they let a ton of them in to this day.
And that they've, they've been pretty cool with with
credentials and everything. And like I said, they've they've
always been willing to to work with us and be accommodating,
which I really appreciate. Yeah, I know.
I know like coach with assembly call goes, goes the games on a
credential pass and I think it's I, I, it's, I think it's good.
And like I think it shows that the universities are
understanding that the changing media landscape.
I'm curious from your perspective, having done this
for so long with the IU fan base, what what drives the most
traffic on the site? I mean, obviously when when the
team is good like that 20, you know, 20/12/13 season, I know
traffic was probably up, but I'm just curious like is it pregame,
postgame, Is it recruiting? Is it postseason?
Like what? What?
What do you know, you know, really drives traffic when
you're going to put it up there? Well, winning is number one,
like a successful season. That's number one there.
I always think to myself, I've been doing this since 2007 and I
used been to what, 3 Sweet Sixteens in that standpoint,
they've not been like to the Elite 8 at all.
I've never been to the Final Four.
I'm thinking, what could this be like if they actually were
competing for Final Fours or winning the Big 10 regularly?
It could be a lot different. And I think it's a testament to
the IU fan base that I've been able to do this for so long
despite the relative lack of success for the program because
it just shows that these fans are going to support the program
unconditionally. Things could be, you know, as
bad as they were under Archie Miller for those four years and
people are still supporting the program.
You know, coaching search obviously is up there too.
I remember when they got rid of Archie.
I remember actually this is when they got rid of Crane.
There was like 3 or 4 days where our server was just completely
like messed up. Like we, we couldn't do anything
and there was like nothing we could do because it was like
every time they tried to change, fix something or change
something, if the avalanche of traffic just kept coming in.
And that was before we kind of had the technology side of it
figured out a little bit more. So there was nothing we can do
from that standpoint. We just kind of had to let it
let it die down a little bit and and stabilize things.
That's funny you mentioned that. That was one of the highest
stretches we ever had too. I mean, Galen went on like a
podcast tear. He had like five in a row.
But I I think at that point, the Korean firing it is back when
iTunes used to have like a ranking.
And I think we made like Crimson cast was in like the top five
for college athletic like just sports podcast.
Like it was wild. Our numbers just blew off the
roof. So, yeah, coaching searches
definitely do. And that, that Korean one, for
whatever reason, really, really lit things up.
Yeah, I remember driving down to Georgia Tech for that NIT game
and then driving back and I'm thinking, when's this going to
happen? Like I got to make sure I get
home before I this can't happen. Why?
I'm somewhere along 65 in Tennessee we can't have.
And luckily I made it home and I think it was like a day later.
The NIT game we sold, by the way, we should have.
It should have been an assembly hall.
Yeah, that was that. Man, that was weird.
That was weird going to that press conference with Crane
afterward and people were asking questions and I don't think he
fully knew for sure what was going to happen, but you could
just tell like his demeanor and his the way he talked about it,
He he was very concerned like about his future.
But you know, getting back to your your question, just in
terms of what drives interest recruiting still to an extent,
but I think recruiting like traditional recruiting has
changed. Like the portal this past
offseason was huge. Like it was some of the best
traffic we've ever gotten. And now obviously you'll get
like small bumps for things like Trent Sicily committing and I
think Braylon Mullins coming up will be a pretty big deal
regardless of of where he goes. But I just think the recruiting
coverage in general has changed that.
People are more now, I think invested and excited about the
portal, which is just kind of weird like you used to when the
season ended in late March, things used to die down pretty
quickly. And I think this year like
through like the end of May, things were pretty hot and heavy
in terms of the traffic that we were getting.
So that that, that that's obviously a big one.
And then obviously when when there's things like, you know,
NCAA investigations or bad news, things like that, also kind of
Dr. negativity also unfortunately drives clicks.
I mean, when they had that accident, you know, like it was
a 2015 or 16, 2014 maybe with the Devin Davis thing.
I don't remember that being a big thing.
And but overall, I think the number one thing is just
winning, like when I use good and the team's winning a lot of
games, which I think everybody's hopeful for.
That's going to be the case this year.
I think it could be good for everybody involved.
Podcasts, websites, social media, following I.
Agree. You talk about recruiting, is
there 1 recruit over the years that you wish we would we would
have gotten? Gary Harris, I would say, OK,
that that was that's probably the one that I'll look at and
say I don't know how much he would have changed things for
that one season, but because they already had OL Depot,
obviously, but just imagine him on that team with Yogi and
Oladipo Zeller, Watford, she I mean, like, what if he's your
6th man? I mean, he's I thought he was
just a tremendous player as a high school high school player.
And you look at the rest of that recruiting class, it was
largely, I mean, it was talked about as like the movement, but
it was largely a bust everywhere else.
I mean, Perea was a guy that I thought was going to be really
good just from CM and AU with the tools, but it never really
worked out. Peter Jerkin clearly didn't have
a big role. Ron Patterson signed and then
never really, I don't think, I don't think he lasted through
the first summer. I think he went to like school
after that. And then Jeremy Hollowell was
another guy that had to go elsewhere and to find like his
role in college and didn't play a huge role.
I think 2 years he spent in Bloomington.
So that to me looking back at that class, but but yeah, just
think about Gary Harrison and Yogi for multiple years in
Bloomington. That would have been a lot of
fun. So that that probably the one I
look at least since I've been covering the team that I guess
the one that kind of got away. How about you?
Is there any that's a good? One, it's a little bit before
both of our times, but I and I don't I mean this is the the the
reporting wasn't quite the same back then, but just Greg Oden
still kills me. I mean that probably keeps Mike
Davis here for a while. So that's a whole nother like,
how does that roll out? But you know, the the the rumor
always was that, you know, he just wouldn't recruit Davis,
wouldn't recruit Mike Conley, which is funny because like Mike
Conley still playing in the NBA and was was I mean it's not like
he sucked in college either. He was a huge part of that.
But it's, you know, you, you look at those teams.
I mean, I think that was like it would have been with like Marco
Killingsworth and I I'm not sure who else is on those like teams
that it would have been. But you know, that was an Ohio
State program that was kind of just going along.
And then like they add those two dudes and it's like they're in
the final four just like that. Like it just happened.
So that's one that always hurt. And then this is very personal
for me. You know, with football there is
right when my wife and I moved back pretty shortly thereafter,
Demarlo Belcher was a wide receiver for football who went
to North Side where my wife went to high school up in Fort Wayne.
That was always like really cool to root for a player who went to
her high school. As I've mentioned many times, my
wife is a teacher at Westfield up here.
She had Braden Smith in class and it's like he's right up
here. I'm watching him play high
school basketball like it's Westfield and I think he's also
a great player to watch and like embodies everything.
And then just like not only doesn't go to IU, goes to
Purdue, like it just it sucks all the way around.
Like I think Braden is awesome. I don't think he's a program
changing player like maybe Harris or Odin is, but it's it's
very personal to me that it's just and it's still going on
that it's like, damn it, that would have been perfect to have
him somebody I could root for. And it's not.
And then seeing all everybody around here being huge Purdue as
they like Braden, as they should be.
Fans of Braden Smith because we live in Westfield and he's a
great example of of, you know, what we produce.
But it's like, but there weren't Purdue stuff.
So that one's it. That one is continuing to hurt
Alex. Did you see him at all in high
school? I watched him a little bit,
yeah. What'd you think?
I thought he was a good play. I mean, that was a good.
I didn't see this. I, I didn't think this was going
to happen. I thought he was good.
Yeah. And I thought he was really
good. I couldn't understand why Archie
wasn't on him more. I I would agree it.
Didn't It didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Like now breaking news here. I mean, everything that I heard,
he was he, he, you know, his, his family was, was fans of IU
and I think he would have would have been very receptive to any
kind of recruiting. But my understanding is he
wasn't even got a sniff from Archie.
Another one, another one that just popped into my head was
Kyle Guy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because everything you heard with him was like he was
receptive to IE too. And I know they recruited him
and offered him, but it was almost like they didn't go 110%
after him. Then he goes on to Virginia and
look at the success they had wins the national championship
so. Yeah, As we talk about this, it
leads to another question, something that me and other
friends talk about when we get deep and IU basketball,
something GAIL and I used to talk about a lot more.
But I'm just curious to ask you like I have my answer to this
question, but I will obviously ask you first.
You look at all these other programs, you know, UCLA, North
Carolina, Kentucky, teams that, you know, we're blue bloods or
still blue bloods or teams that kind of have gone up and down.
You know, do do you think there's anything inherent
holding Indiana back from being elite or do you think, but I'll,
I'll leave it there, Like do you think there's anything and what
would it be that's holding Indiana back from getting back
to an elite program? Wow.
It's a tough question and I'm not thought about it in depth,
but like off the top of my head, I think what you see as some of
the other programs is maybe less patience in terms of when things
go poorly. But looking back in North
Carolina, when was it? Dardy was there for a couple
years and it was bottomed. Out.
Years, right, I think he bought bottomed out like pretty quickly
and I was like, all right, this isn't going to work.
We got to make sure we go get the guy.
I I think, I think they've actually not done a terrible job
with the hires in terms of who the coaches are.
Going back to Samson, he was a really good coach, obviously a
proven guy that went to the final four at Oklahoma and now
look at what he's doing at Houston.
You kind of look at that and say, man, if you could have just
kept off the three-way calls, what what could he have built in
Bloomington? I know there was some off the
court stuff, but he was actually a pretty solid hire.
Tom Crean, when they hired him, he'd he'd gone to a Final Four
at Marquette. He had Dwyane Wade and had some
really high moments, but there was just not the consistency.
Archie Miller looked like a a slam dunk to everybody.
He was the the hot name in the coaching carousel that season.
And you look at that coaching cycle, if you would have told me
Archie was going to be the worst of the three Big 10 hires that
year, which were Chris Holtman, Brad Underwood and Archie, I
would have told you probably you were crazy.
But Brad Underwood now to me is the top three for coach in the
Big 10. Holtman was really good early at
Ohio State and made a lot of NCAA tournaments, but again,
they didn't that wasn't good enough.
So they made a move with him and now he's at the Paul.
And then Archie obviously got four years in Indiana, never
makes a tournament. So I don't necessarily think
there's anything holding the back, but I do think like you've
got to have the right hire at the right time.
And I don't necessarily think they've had that with with
Woodson. You know, I think a lot of
people, I think maybe he thinks based on I'll listen to an
interview with him over the weekend that he did up at Big 10
Media Day with CBS Sports. I'm not sure if you listen to
it. Yeah, it was a Matt Norlander.
It was like 11 or 12 minutes. It's on YouTube.
If you cannot watch it, check it out.
But he he was asked like a couple questions and he like
brought up the fans in the media like a criticism a little bit.
And it's like, you know, I, I remember like after Woodson's
first couple years, I was like super complimentary of him from
the standpoint of, you know, bringing in the pieces that he
did, going to the tournament for two straight years, retaining
Trace Jackson Davis, you know, making, you know, the tournament
to me was a big deal over two years.
And then last year was a step back.
And I think a lot of this like basically acknowledge that it
wasn't the the results of Indiana should have had and they
should have been a much better team.
So I think this is very much like a year where he's going to
have to prove a lot of things to a lot of people.
I think there's people are optimistic in terms of just the
the program and the pieces on the team.
But I think I think there's a lot of people who want to see,
you know, a much better product this year.
So kind of not, not to go on a tangent here, but I don't think
there's anything inherently holding IU back.
I just think it's all about getting the right coach at the
right time. And I don't necessarily, I mean
they've had, they've made some. What looked like at the time,
solid hires, But you know, Billy Gillespie also looked like a
really good hire Kentucky until he wasn't.
And there's countless other examples of coaches.
I mean, you would have told me after Chris Holtman's first
couple years at Ohio State that he'd now be coaching at the
Paul. I would have told you you're
crazy. So it's it's hard, you know,
these everyone wants to kind of go play revisionist history and
say, well, they should have hired this guy or they should
have brought in this guy at that time.
But I can't look at any of the hires that they made.
You know, Woodson was interesting just because I don't
think anybody saw that one coming.
But at least you could see from the standpoint of, you know, he
went to IU and they had gone outside the family for what the
last three hires prior to that. And they wanted to get an IU
guy. And I don't think a lot of
people had a strong appetite for Brandon Steve Alford.
And there was he was probably the next logical candidate
beyond that. And like I said, done, done
well, did well his first two years.
I think he took a step back last year and got a lot to pre
release it from a wins and losses perspective this year.
But I think he knows that and I think the team's going to be
much better. But I don't I don't know that
anything's holding them back per SE.
I think it's, you know, if you had the right coach at the right
time, I think there's nothing stopping Indiana from getting
back to that, you know, top five, top ten program status.
Yeah, I, I agree with you. I mean, so real quick Fact
Check, it's Matt. We, we screwed up Matt Doherty
with North Carolina. But I, I always look at Matt
Doherty and Gillespie. You mentioned those two guys
because it's funny, because you people look back as well.
They sucked in like, you know, North Carolina and Kentucky
don't screw around. They make changes.
It's even more than that. I mean, you look at Doherty at
North Carolina, he went 8 and 20 his second year.
He was 19 and 16, 4:00 and 12:00 in the ACC, 6:00 and 10:00.
But he was showing improvement. It's not like they were awful.
They went to the NIT his second year and it's like not good
enough. He's out.
Gillespie had two years of Kentucky.
He was 18 and 13 and 22 and 14. He was 12 and four in the SEC
his first year and then eight and eight his second year.
So a little bit back, but still 22 and 14 his second year.
And it's like that's not good enough.
And I think it's, you know, people sometimes give Indiana
this cred of like all their fans are unreasonable.
They don't give enough time. It's like, I, I think sometimes
we give too much time. And I'm, I'm not speaking about
current coaching at all. I just, I think when you look
at, there's more of a longer term discussion.
You look at Archie or what we did with Crean or even Davis,
You know, we, I, I don't think we are an unreasonable fan base.
I, I think you look at some of those where it's like man 22148
and eight in the conference with Kentucky.
That's that's pretty good. I mean, they just they're like,
we're done. That's two years when he was the
hottest coaching prospect. But I, I agree a million percent
with you. I don't think there's anything
holding IU back. And what I've always said is it
does, you know, when, when you have the right hire at the right
time at the right place, things just click.
And I, I think honestly, that's where I would say maybe IU just
needs to be a little. And again, I'm not speaking
toward this year at all. I just think at a high level,
they probably need to be a little less patient and a little
more aggressive with what they do.
Because, you know, the, the Archie thing to me again, is a
great viewpoint. Like if Indiana would have hired
Underwood, it would have been like, you picked the wrong guy.
Like, that was the third option of the three coaches.
And you know, in the end, you want to pick the best player.
But there is a piece as an AD where you have to kind of
understand that you're you're playing a political game here
too. So if you're going to, you know,
it's a fantasy example here. If you're like playing fantasy
football, it's like if you don't take Christian McCaffrey first
this year, like you better know what the heck, you better nail
that pick or else everyone's going to rail on you.
And even then, they'll still make fun of you.
And you know, same thing with drafting in the, in the pros.
Sometimes you just have to take guys because it's like, I, I
look stupid if I don't take this guy, even if I think he's not
the best pick. Long story short said, it's like
it's really hard to know how to hire the best coach in a cycle.
Sometimes you pick a cycle and like you look at that Archie,
you know, the, the, the Archie Underwood and Holtman cycle.
It's like there wasn't maybe Underwood will get there, but
it's not like there is a, you know, Bobby Hurley in there or
you know, Danny Hurley in there. Like there wasn't maybe a
generational coach there. I, I look at this more as like
you just maybe as an, as a staff, just need to be more
aggressive and like we just need to take more shots and get more
at bats and just have more. And, you know, again, you just
look at other programs, they maybe have a shorter hook than
we do. And maybe that is what is
slightly holding us back. And again, I don't, I'm not
saying anything about Woodson this year or even next year's.
I just, I think that that might be, you know, sometimes maybe
you get a little too complacent. And just like we got to give
this more time, more time. It's like if you get it right,
it doesn't, you know, it's going to be right.
I think it's really hard to figure out who's going to be a
good coach. And so to me it's like the way
to solve that is you just take a bunch more cracks at the apple
because it's really hard to tell.
I don't know. Yeah.
The other thing I think like right now with IU and
specifically, I think that it's kind of a double edged sword
from the standpoint of realistically, if you have to
make A, and I'm not, I'm not saying anyway there's going to
be a change anytime soon because I think there's a really good
chance that Mike Woodson has a great year and this discussion
is completely gone. But you know, people that people
that really pushed last spring for a change like in the fan
base, I looked at what happened at Louisville and Kentucky in
terms of what they were able to hire and I said what Indiana
fans have actually been happy with either of those hires.
I think people would have been complaining about both of those
hires because Pat Kelsey and Mark Pope, I believe, have
combined for a grand total of 0 NCAA tournament wins.
Now you think about this, would you ever believe that Louisville
and Kentucky would have to go into a hiring process and end up
with a coach that had zero NCAA tournament success?
Do you think Indiana fans, when there's a, whether it's, you
know, a year from now or five years from now when Mike Woodson
retires, do you think they're going to be happy with a, hiring
a coach that's never won an NCAA Tournament game?
It's, it's just different. I mean.
Well, and I guess I guess that would be if I had to say what is
holding Indiana back, that might be it.
Is there in this kind of weird no man's land of they're they're
like an elite team, but they're not really able to hire their.
And and what I mean is like, you look at what will take it to IU
football, you look at what Signetti is doing with IU
football and it's like, dude, this is a home run hire.
But again, going back to my like, you also have to win the
press conference a little bit if you're the AD like in the
offseason. There's no way Alabama could
have hired Signetti. Like it's just I mean, he he had
Alabama ties. Like if they would have hired
Signetti, that place would Tuscaloosa would have gone nuts.
Like are you insane? This guy JMU Like it would not
have worked. I mean, Caleb De Boer is a
fantastic hire. I think they only were able to
hire him because he took Washington in the national
championship game. I mean, if, if Washington kind
of shits out middle of the year and doesn't make the College
Football Playoff, you know, you're talking about two losses
for Washington last year that let's just add 2 losses to their
schedule. It's like, that's still a really
good year for Washington. I don't think Alabama could have
hired De Boer as a team. And so you're, I, I do wonder if
Indiana's kind of stuck in the spot where they're not able to
take a shot at. Like, you know, I think it was
the year before we went for Archie, you know, Nate Oates was
available at Buffalo. It's like, I don't know if
Indiana fans at that time would have been like, the hell are we
doing? Like we're So I don't that that
might be that might be we might be getting to our answer here is
that could be part of the problem is that, you know, some
of these smaller schools like Alabama in basketball, they're
able to take a shot. It's like, what do we have to
lose? Like, let's let's just keep
rolling the dice. And sometimes, you know, the the
guys like Signeti or Nate Oates are the ones that, you know, no
other high level team would have taken them.
So they're able to make these runs at places that, you know,
we're able to kind of take a a shot.
I don't know. The other thing is these coaches
can stay where they are when is just as many games and not deal
with the scrutiny that they would deal with that, IE right,
like a Scott Drew, for example, he turned out Kentucky.
He's at Baylor, He's won a national championship there.
They gave him they gave him a new arena.
They've upgraded his practice facilities.
He's got all the money he wants. He's basically the mayor of that
area. He can do whatever he wants
from, you know, resources perspective.
I'm sure he's got whatever NIL he needs.
Why would he want the aggravation of going to Kentucky
or Indiana or Louisville when he can just stay at Baylor and win
as many games? Same thing with I mean, Hurley's
a little bit different, but I think a lot of people, if you
had told people at the end of the season that the Lakers and
Kentucky were going to make a run at Hurley and he'd basically
be like no to both. I mean, that's what other
basketball coaching jobs are more hope high profile than than
those. And and he turned those down
because he realizes, you know, I can do everything I want to do
from a wins and losses perspective.
There's not as much pressure on me at this place.
And I do think there's a probably you have to have the
right mindset to take the Indiana job.
And I mean that in the way of you're going to be the most
recognizable figure in many ways in the entire state.
You're going to be every move you make, you know, every
recruit you don't get, every game you lose.
It's going to be talked about on a podcast like this or it's
going to be written about on a website or social media.
You got to be pretty thick skinned.
Like you can't worry about what's being said on the
outside. And and that maybe that's not
everybody. I mean, I, I think that was one
of the problems with, you know, it would have been fine for
Archie if he would have won more.
I think he would have been completely fine.
But I don't think he understood when he came in, like what the
job was like from responsibilities, like with the
fan base and engaging the fan base and the media
responsibilities. And I can remember like times
when I saw him out at like high school games and stuff and he
like looked like completely like, I don't want to say
annoyed, but just uncomfortable that people like even wanted to
come up and talk to him or take a picture.
It's like, man cream, he was eating that stuff up.
He was like hugging people and taking pictures of that.
Like he understood that part of it.
So it's just a really complex job too from that standpoint,
because there's these crazy expectations, which I think is
great. The minute Indiana basketball
loses its expectations is the minute you know that it's going
to go even further down the the pegging order where it is like
right now, I'd say you look at Ken Palm, I think it's like a
top 25 job, which is still pretty good, which I think we
all believe it should be a top ten job just based on
performance. I'm not saying job, but
performance. That's the Ken Palm area.
That's where they're ranked. So it's, yeah, it's it's just a
really, it's just one of those jobs where you got to have the
right person. And I'd say there's only a
handful of those in the country where it's finding them right,
right ingredients and mixing them all together and find the
right person is not easy to do. And you've also still got, you
know, a large portion of the fan base that's grew up watching
Indiana be dominant in the 70s and the 80s and into the early
90s. And those people are still
hoping and wishing that any and I could get back to that.
And I think those are expectations that are unlikely
to be the the run that Knight had in Bloomington and what he
did. I just, I don't know that
there's anybody you can hire and be able to do that because look
at all the Big 10 titles he won, winning three national
championships. It's a different era now,
college basketball. So I think the thing that
Indiana needs to get back to is just, we talked about this a
little bit on the on the podcast, on the Brink episode is
get to the tournament every year and give yourself chances to
advance. Like that's where what's missing
is they've just not been at the table enough.
I mean, you're not going to, if you're not sitting at the table,
you're not going to get fed, right?
I mean, you got to get there and they've not gotten there nearly
enough. The thing with night is and
basketball was wildly different at that point, but you had, you
know, Branch McCracken, you had the years with, you know, two
titles. Indiana basketball had also
fallen off at that point as well.
And I think they were at that point where they were willing to
take a shot at a young up and coming coach in night.
You know, I don't and again, this is obviously way, way
before my time, but it's it's almost like the the the seas
leveled with like, all right, you know, they realize the time
like, all right, we're not the same program we were before.
We can't get the best. I don't say bad, like we're
willing to take a real gamble here on a guy.
And that's that was you mentioned the run Knight had
like that was always the when when he passed away and we did
some kind of retro about a year ago, almost just from
retrospectives. Like the thing that I was amazed
by was, I mean, I kind of knew this, but really looking at it,
just how effing young he was. Just he was so young and, you
know, everyone saw, you know, he was I, I think, you know, he, he
won his second or third title before anybody else had ever won
like 1. I mean, he was like 35 and you
know, he, he looked older as a younger person.
I think he was only like 46. He's like my age when he won an
87. I mean, it was, it was wild,
just insane how young he was. And I think he was 29.
I'm doing all of memory, but you know, right around there when
they hired him, like again, it's like I think Indiana had gotten
to that point where they were willing to take a risk.
And maybe that's, you know, we as a fan base, if and when we
have a new coaching search, at some point, maybe we have to be
willing to like, look, let's let's take that risk, but
knowing that it may not work either.
I'm going to go off this, we'll kind of wrap up with with this,
you know, changing IU. There's always been talk about,
you know, the, the the silly things, the traditions and
stuff. I don't think any of that stuff
matters for like the program, like, you know, doing any kind
of change or anything would, would get us a title.
But I'm curious, what's 1 tradition you wouldn't never
change the Indiana basketball and one tradition that you're
totally fine changing because I, I have, I have, I have a couple
answers on this. I'm, I'm asking you blinds.
I didn't give you time to think about it, and I'm happy to go
first if you want time to think too.
I would say the one that I wouldn't want to change would
just be the the candy striped pants, because I think it's
something that people associate directly with the program.
And you know, you see kids and you see, I've seen kids as
little as three or four years old and I've seen like
grandfathers and wearing those at the games.
Like it's something that everybody like looks at Indiana
basketball and says like this is what it other, other fan bases
like, like to make fun of it, which is like that's my reason
for like keep it, right? Like it bothers other people.
They get mad about like the candy stripe, like looks so
stupid or whatever. I'm like, it's Indiana's thing.
Like keep it, it's fine. Like the thing I was, and this
could be controversial. The thing that I don't really
care too much about seeing change will be having names on
the back of the jerseys because I, I just don't like I, I, I
don't think it's as big of a deal maybe as some people make
it out to be. It's always like, well, we play
for the name on the front, which is true, but that doesn't mean
you can't have a name on the back of the jersey.
And now with NIL, I mean, imagine, excuse me, they, I know
they've tried to sell like some jersey.
I was in Bloomington a couple of years ago when I saw I think it
was like a hood gifino like jersey that had for sale at this
Kirkwood place and it looked like terrible because it wasn't
like a actual jersey like. I know I see those around like I
see Isaiah Thomas Jersey. He's like that.
That doesn't exist. That wasn't real.
Right, right. So I, I, I wouldn't have a
problem with it. I mean, I know a lot of people
would probably disagree, but I just, I think times change from
some of some things change and a lot of programs, there's
probably a couple other ones that don't have the names in the
back of the jersey, but they're few and far between.
And I, I just wouldn't have a problem.
Or maybe you 110% disagree with me, but I I just I wouldn't have
a problem with that changing. No, it's, I mean, it's more fun
if we completely disagree, but we don't.
Those are my exact. I, I have a couple of the things
that I'll change that I'll get to.
I completely agree. I think, you know, when I went
to IU, you know, I, I mentioned this, I did some media IU and
like, it was wild how uncoordinated IU was at the
time. But basketball was like its own.
They had their own script logo. They had their own, you know,
Trident logo. They they just, they had
everything on their own and everyone else had a different,
they had different colors. I mean, at that point, you know,
football was doing the Oval and the black, but literally there
was different variants of the IU Trident across all sports.
But basketball like had their own.
The kind of the rounded version was like that was theirs.
They had their own shades of colors.
It was wild. But you also, you know, looking
back, the candy stripe was just basketball.
That's all it was. Now I and I love to see how IU
is kind of taking it, marketing it in a lot of other sports.
I know swimming and diving always had this candy stripes
too. So I, I, I rephrase that for a
SEC, but like, now you see it, you know, in football, like all
the sports, kind of take the candy stripe as, as, as an
Indiana thing. I think it's great.
So I agree with you. Like that would be the one thing
I don't think you ever change because it's a great marketing.
It's a great differentiator. I agree with you on the names of
the jerseys, especially in the NIL era.
It's it's a bit of a bygone era. It it Harkins to that was a that
was really a night thing And you know, Knight had his time and he
was great, but we've we've moved on.
Not moved on is the wrong thing, but it's like it's just it's a
different era. I I don't know you have to have
names in the jerseys on all games, But I I also think kind
of like I'm cool with monkeying with the jerseys a lot more.
I mean, in the in this world of secondary and alternative
jerseys into being a cool thing and having, you know, sales
opportunity for that. This is partially our, I think
our deal with Adidas. I don't think they treat us like
a high level program. So we get kind of garbage stuff,
but I've always been really unimpressed with our secondary
and you know, uniforms, the times we change, it's like the
little flowery stuff. It's like, dude, just go with
black uniforms, like try the Oval on a basketball.
Like let's really go nuts. Like try some really wild like
stuff like I, I'd be so cool with that and just see them, you
know, try that. Maybe a different court design.
I know I'm getting way off the rails here, but like that I the
other. Two well, aren't they going to
have like sponsors, sponsorships on the court this year for the
first year potentially? Are they?
I thought I read that. I think so they, they, they
solicited, we got an e-mail a couple of months ago they were
soliciting like business opportunities for I get a name
on the court. So I think they're at least open
to that. I mean, I'd be, I love the, the
center court design is iconic, but like you could change that
up every so often, like have the block I have Indiana, you know,
spray painted across or something like kind of like, you
know, maybe you'd do candy stripes down the lane or
something. I, I think we need to be open to
some of those changes. The other two things I would say
this is a real minor one. It's a shout out to my buddy
Tom, who's been saying this for years.
The the under 8 flag timeout is really cool.
I think they they need to move it to the under 4 minute
timeout. It's just, it is, it's always
been something that the fans get hyped up for and they're kind of
like pumped. And then it's like, all right,
we still got 7 minutes a game. And then it's like kind of like
it feels like the energy dies down.
Like I've always I agree with my buddy Tom, like I think that
should go at the under 4 timeout.
And then it's like maybe you stand for the rest of the game
and that becomes a thing. We're like this pumps us up and
then we're just going to own it for the last four minutes.
And then I would also say, you know, they've done some
renovations. They can keep it for a while,
but I, I don't think the idea of building a new stadium should be
off the table either. I think assembly hall is a
unique environment. It's a really cool environment.
I think the, the sound is I, I like that it's different than
all the other places, but I don't think that we have to I,
I, I'm always open for a discussion of a new arena as
long as it's not something like funny.
Let's bash on Ohio State a little more An arena like that
seems very like the value city arena just seems boring and
antiseptic and kind of like doesn't have any character like
maybe build AI don't say a replica, but something unique
like assembly hall. Maybe have some more wooden
bleachers, but build it in a way where it's easy to get in and
out of There's more concession. There's a little more, you know,
luxury suite options. I I'm I'm not anti let's look
for a new arena as well. So I'm those are some of the
things that I would look to change as well, but I think
we're pretty much in line with the two main ones that we had.
Would you have a problem if it was something like the Field
house but a little bit smaller like game bridge?
No, I think Game Bridge is a great place to watch a game.
I love, I love going there. I will rephrase.
Game bridge is a great place to watch a game if you're in the
low level or the mid level. This is sounding like, you know,
elitist. Yeah.
But it's not like the upper, it's not like the upper level.
And Assembly Hall is great. Right now.
No, no, you're no, you're right. Game bridge is better.
The upper level and game bridge is can be rough but I think
upper levels in all stadiums suck.
And to your point, the upper level and assembly Hall is, is
really rough and the balcony is like a whole nother level of, of
seats. And that's that's something that
always bugs me when people that, you know, Memorial Stadium is
different. There's a lot of good views and
even the high level in football is OK.
And like Memorial Stadium was a pretty, pretty intimate area or
intimate arena. People who don't like, who are
like always bitching about, man, the students aren't showing up
in the balconies or we're not filling the balconies.
Assembly Hall, I'm always like, have you sat in the balcony?
Have you sat up there? Because I've been there a lot as
a student and like, they suck. Like they are awful seats if
you're even slightly drunk, of which most students probably
are. Like I'm worried I'm just, you
know, I'm, I was worried I was going to just completely go over
the edge and just fall down those stairs.
Like it is, it's a rough hang up there.
And even this, you know, the, the seats up in the upper
corners, I used to, I remember going to games with Galen, we
had to bring notebooks because the small scoreboards, you
couldn't see the scoreboards in some of the corners of Assembly
Hall. They've now made the scoreboards
bigger. They have some TV's and stuff up
there. But those, there's those corner
seats where you feel like you're in a different arena because you
can't see anything on the other side.
And it's just, you feel like you're in this little cocoon of
stuff. So I, I mean, I, I would always
use that as my argument to people who are just and I, I
love assembly Hall. It's a totally one of a one of
one place, but it isn't the best basketball viewing experience.
And you're always going to have trouble filling those 4 to 5000
really bad seats if unless the team is just like absolutely
elite. Yeah.
I think if you built a new stadium to, you probably maybe
want to go a little bit smaller, right?
Yeah. In terms of the seats, I know
Louisville built this, the Yum Center, and I know they've had
some terrible teams the last couple years, but even some of
those years, I think they've it's like 21 or 22,000.
Even when they've been good, they have a hard time filling
that. I know simply Hall's not that
big, but maybe you build it to 15 or 16 instead of what, 17 or
something? Make it a little bit smaller.
When you can re engineer where the students go too like that,
that's something. Exactly like have the students
all on one side, like down close to like make it a little bit
more of a intimidating atmosphere.
I'm not saying I mean I've been to a lot of the big 10 venues
and assembly Hall when it's on fire is as intimidating as it
gets. It's like Mackie and Assembly to
me are like, right, like in terms of the noise and how loud
I can get are one A1B, however you want to put them.
But when things aren't going so well and the students maybe
aren't as enthused there, there can be times too where it's just
not as lively. And I think if you can do
something to kind of get people a little bit closer to the
action and get I'm not saying the students aren't well
represented now because they've got a ton of seats of it.
In terms of the seats allotted, it's as much as anybody in the
country, but like align them in such a way to where they're
making a little bit more of an impact.
Like, you can put them like down around the court in a new place
and then you still give the people who are your season
ticket holders and have a lot of skin in the game really good
seats, you know, in the lower level too, so.
Yeah, no, I I agree. All all, all hypotheticals that
we probably don't have to worry. About yeah, none of it's going
to happen, but you see at Memorial Stadium they changed
the students section seating this year and they they put them
kind of wrapped around the back end zone or the North End zone,
I guess. And it is really made a
difference. Like it's amazing.
Just the same number of students just in a different, different
setup has really changed the vibe and the sounds of that
place. Yeah, it's just, it's too bad
the students have lost a lot of the good seats they used to have
in Assembly Hall. But it's, it's, it's money.
It's, you know, and it's, it's, it's what they got to do.
It's just, it is the realities of the of the new world.
Absolutely. All right.
Any final thoughts on this coming season?
Season? I mean, we did most of it
already. This has been a fun
retrospective. But do you, are you since we
last talked or are you any more or less excited for this
upcoming season? I'm, I'm just as excited as I
was before. I'm, I'm just excited to see
Miles Rice in particular because I think since we talked, maybe
maybe I'd already gone to, I used media day.
I don't remember exactly the day.
It was a couple weeks ago. So maybe I used media day had
already taken place, but not sure how much we talked about
this. But he was the guy at media day
that I was super impressed with. Just his demeanor and the way he
presented himself just in terms of taking on that leadership
mantle and the fact that they took him to Big 10 media day in
Chicago. And I believe he's one of the
captains for this year's team. That tells me a lot about it,
just how he's being viewed internally.
And he also plays the most important position on the team,
in my opinion. When was the last time I you had
a great point guard? You look back, it's what I mean
Hudshafino there for that that year was kind of a combo guard,
but probably Yogi. Yogi, right.
So everyone is talking about Balo and Renew and Imbacco and
Balo got the, I think the preseason first team all Big 10
honor to me. I'm looking at Miles Rice and
saying if he can be the player that he was last year at
Washington State, which was an all PAC 12 first team performer,
the PAC 12 freshman of the year, and build on that.
I think it makes Indiana, you know, look at what the point
guard play was last year. And this is nothing against
Scape Cups, but he even admitted to us that immediate day when we
talked to him that he struggled last season and has a lot of
work to do to the kind of get himself to where he wants to be
as a player. And I think Indiana really
shored up its guard guard play. And couple that with what should
be a really good front court, and I think there's no reason
that this team can't be competing near the top of the
Big 10. When you're seeing the the
projections come in, I mean, we're it's like us and Purdue
1212 kind of that's that seems to be the the consensus and the
Purdue thing it, it feels like that's more just on inertia and
you know, what they've done in the past, just kind of giving it
on very good, confident, you know, very good reason, but kind
of being like, all right, well, painter does this every year.
So we'll do it again with this group.
So, you know, it does feel like we have a real shot to be in
that top three. Yeah, that's why I picked Purdue
in part was just because I've seen it before, right?
I mean, it's hard to, you know, it's hard to take away from what
they've done now over a sustained period.
I remember those teams that he had like the the two years Randy
was really good with cream and they just beat the doors off
Purdue. It was like a game in a Mackey.
I remember going to was like 97 to 60 or something crazy like
that. And I think since then painters
figured out like what he wants to do from a program perspective
and how he wants to build his teams.
And I think the ceiling some years may not be as high as some
of the other programs in the Big 10.
But the floor, I think you pretty know what you're going
to, pretty much know what you're going to get, which is going to
be a solid competitive team. And there's just so many
question marks with a lot of these other Big 10 teams like
UCLA, they were really bad last year, but they they really
upgraded via the portal. Some people have picked them.
Oregon's another team that I think a lot of people are high
on coming over from the PAC 12. But we haven't seen these teams
as as up close and not as familiar.
A lot of the people from the media picking these teams.
Same thing with Illinois. I think that's kind of more of a
pick for Brad Underwood too, because look at I think they
have two or three scholarship players left from last year's
Elite Eight team. And So what are you basing a
projection on for them? You're basing it on the fact
that you you trust Brad Underwood to put together
A-Team. It's kind of the same thing with
Painter. Same thing with Izzo.
How long have we given him the benefit of the doubt?
And he's underperformed now for several seasons in a row.
I think this year's Big 10 race is going to be fascinating from
the perspective of there's a lot of really solid teams.
I don't know that there's a dominant 1, and we had that last
year with Purdue. I think it was a foregone
conclusion that Purdue was gonna win the league.
This year. I picked Purdue to win the
league, but if you asked me if I'd pick Purdue with the field,
I'm taking the field, so. Yeah, maybe that makes.
Sense more, I'm out with it. Well, Alex, we've gone over an
hour. We we gave you the time, dude,
it's been great talking to you. This is always fun.
I like kind of doing, doing something different than just a
normal preview. But let's try and get together
before maybe the end of the season and we do a little
priests, you know, postseason preview.
Hopefully we're, we're looking at a protected NC double AC and
we have some fun discussions with that that.
Would be nice, thanks for having me as always.
Like I said, you all do a great job with Crimson Cast.
I look forward to listening to whatever the next episode is
over there. We got some football coming up,
but no, you guys, I I look at inside the halls, the gold
standard. So it's a it's awesome having
you on. I appreciate it and thank
everybody for listening. And until next time, this is
Scott for Crimson cast signing off.