1
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,280
You're listening to the Back 
Home Network presented by Home 

2
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:22,800
Field Apparel. 
All right folks, welcome back to

3
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,440
Crimson Cast. 
Got here with you. 

4
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,000
Excited for this podcast today. 
Before we get going, just a 

5
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,440
quick shout out to two of our 
friends. 

6
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,080
First off, we have Upland 
Brewery with the Hoosier game 

7
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,200
day Logger. 
I got a couple of more cans of 

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,200
the Hoosier game day logger 
filled up my fridge. 

9
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,520
If you listen to last pod you 
know I was drinking it on the 

10
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,160
patio watching IU beat 
Northwestern. 

11
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,120
So definitely check them out. 
They are at all Upland 

12
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,160
locations. 
You got a week off time to stock

13
00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:51,480
up and then when we pack the 
rock in two weeks against 

14
00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:53,880
Nebraska, you can buy it at 
Memorial Stadium. 

15
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,600
Upland Brewing Company reminds 
you to a drink responsibly go 

16
00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,080
Hoosiers and also our friends at
Home Field apparel, all kinds of

17
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,680
good stuff. 
They have the new Indiana script

18
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,480
like 90s throw over. 
The thing is awesome. 

19
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,240
Check them out. 
You can save 15% off your first 

20
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,560
purchase by using the promo code
HOME 23. 

21
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,920
So check out home field apparel.
All right, business time is 

22
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,920
over. 
We are excited to bring to our 

23
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,360
home and home. 
We're bringing Alex Bozicz from 

24
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,800
inside the hall onto Crimson 
Cast podcast. 

25
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,400
I was on his podcast a couple 
weeks ago. 

26
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,760
So Alex, welcome to welcome to 
our stadium, man. 

27
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,120
Thanks for coming over. 
Thanks for having me, man. 

28
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,040
As you know, I have the utmost 
respect for you and Galen. 

29
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:39,720
You're the the pod fathers of 
podcasts for Indiana University 

30
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,080
sports. 
You guys do a great job over 

31
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:49,440
Crimson cast and you know, it's 
been awesome to see the, the 

32
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,800
response that you've gotten to 
the football podcast this 

33
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,480
season, because I know there's 
been a lot of long dark years of

34
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,480
podcasting about IU football, a 
lot of terrible seasons. 

35
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,560
So I I, I'm happy for you guys 
that you actually have a good 

36
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,840
product to talk about it. 
I know it's exciting for you and

37
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,120
Galen as well. 
So just wanted to put that out 

38
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:11,760
there. 
I know your listeners are 

39
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,960
thrilled about it as well and 
and I'm personally am just still

40
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,760
that you guys are getting a 
legitimate football team to talk

41
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,680
about this year. 
I I appreciate that. 

42
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,640
It's definitely fun. 
It's funny to hear you say that.

43
00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:24,920
I've heard this from a lot of 
different people and it's, we 

44
00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,200
joke on the last part. 
It's almost like having a kid 

45
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,440
that's like graduating college 
feel like, oh, I'm so proud of 

46
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,360
you. 
Like he's walking like he's done

47
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,120
so well for himself. 
And it's like you put in so much

48
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,600
time and effort and it's just 
almost like the, the, the proud 

49
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,480
father at graduation as my kid 
is at least getting it. 

50
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,320
I wouldn't say it's validatory, 
but at least like getting a 

51
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,080
diploma is where we're at right 
right now. 

52
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:45,880
Yeah, they move up the rankings 
a little bit more. 

53
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,320
You could be talking about 
valedictorian, right? 

54
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:53,240
There's there's talk of being a 
contender for the for a playoff 

55
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,760
spot, which is incredible to 
think. 

56
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,680
About it's incredible. 
I think it's legitimate too. 

57
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,240
And I think they've they've done
it. 

58
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,560
It's it's funny. 
We started Crimson cast because 

59
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,240
we were both obviously big bat. 
I mean went to IU always a big 

60
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,560
bat, big basketball fans. 
We started right at probably the

61
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,280
nadir of Indiana basketball. 
Like I think I have to go back 

62
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:12,720
and look at his like the end of 
the Kelvin Samson. 

63
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,240
I think right when Samson was 
fired and we brought in creams 

64
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,920
like that's when we were like, 
this is the time. 

65
00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:19,240
This is the time to strike. 
IU is hot. 

66
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,440
And then within a year or two, 
you know, both Galen and I were 

67
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,560
going to football games or I had
season tickets. 

68
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,760
He was working his way back and 
we both had he's like, well, 

69
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,840
let's let's talk like no one's 
talking football. 

70
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,400
Let's start that and end up 
become more of our brand than I 

71
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,800
thought it would be for starting
this in kind of a, a basketball 

72
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,920
mode. 
But no, it does feel like we're 

73
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,000
on the precipice of something, 
which got me thinking. 

74
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,800
Have you thought about, you 
know, you have inside the hall? 

75
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,120
Have you thought about inside 
the rock? 

76
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,200
Like let's let's get a a 
subsequent page going like just 

77
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,240
what you need and a whole other 
website to run. 

78
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,600
You know, it's funny, somebody 
at IU when Kevin Wilson got the 

79
00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,800
job, talked to me and said, you 
know, we think you should start 

80
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,800
doing football stuff. 
And I, I just my interest level 

81
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,680
in football is more from, I 
would call it more of a 

82
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,720
recreational interest. 
I'm not, I'm not a die hard 

83
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,320
football person, never have 
been. 

84
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,440
I've, you know, I grew up in 
southern Indiana, New Albany, 

85
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,600
and I was kind of, you know, in 
the middle of, you know, 

86
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,960
Louisville, KY, Indiana, and it 
was always basketball for me. 

87
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,680
And you know, I, I guess my 
formative years, IU football 

88
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,160
wasn't really something that 
that drew a lot of attention. 

89
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,040
And so it's harder for me to get
interested in. 

90
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,080
I will say that this year I have
made it a point to watch the 

91
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,160
games. 
I was at a party with at some 

92
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,080
friend's house over the weekend 
and made sure they had the IE 

93
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,840
Northwestern game on, was 
watching it. 

94
00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:50,560
And so it's also nice for me to 
kind of be able to, you know, 

95
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,960
for basketball, you know, I go 
to some of the games, I'm on 

96
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,200
press row, I've got a press 
pass. 

97
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,920
I can't really root for any 
outcome. 

98
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,600
You know, selfishly, I wanted to
do well for the the business, 

99
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,760
but from a football perspective,
you know, I'm not a member of 

100
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,480
the media. 
So I can actually enjoy the 

101
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,640
success, you know, I of, of the 
program and it's, it's been fun 

102
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,200
for that perspective, but it 
would also kind of feel weird to

103
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,280
just, you know, jump in now. 
It's like, you know, you waited,

104
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,520
you know, you had this website 
for 17 years and all of a sudden

105
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,360
how you football is good. 
You want to jump in like I, I 

106
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,640
don't, I don't think people 
would be running to read my 

107
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,160
thoughts on IE football. 
So, I mean, I'll leave it to you

108
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,320
guys like you and some of the 
other, you know what, Hoosier 

109
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,120
Huddle's one of them. 
Hoosier huddle, I mean bite side

110
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,720
Bison Taylor does a great job 
with his sub stack. 

111
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,880
There's been a nice little, you 
know, we had Punt, John punt for

112
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,080
quite a while and those guys 
just. 

113
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,080
Kind of, yeah. 
I remember those. 

114
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,360
Guys, those guys just tapped 
out. 

115
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,200
They were. 
Like they were asking me like 

116
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,720
they were super nice guys. 
I think they were just trying to

117
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,280
figure out how to grow a 
following. 

118
00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:51,960
And that was a long, long time 
ago. 

119
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,760
And I, you know, I tried to help
them as much as I can. 

120
00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:57,800
They were, they were out there 
towards the end of the Allen, 

121
00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,560
you know, right? 
They kind of stopped doing 

122
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,760
stuff. 
They did they they've shut it 

123
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,440
down. 
We had them on a couple weeks 

124
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,800
ago. 
They shut it down about two or 

125
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,320
three years ago. 
Yeah. 

126
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,840
By the way, for those who are 
wondering, like this is actually

127
00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,960
this podcast is going to be a 
little bit different than the 

128
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,120
one Alex and I did because I 
figured the Venn diagram of 

129
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,560
people who listen to your pod 
and my pod is probably pretty 

130
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,200
similar. 
So I, I don't want to do just 

131
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,160
another, let's preview IU 
basketball at some point near 

132
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,280
the end. 
We'll talk about the upcoming 

133
00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:25,040
season. 
I just I wanted to talk to you 

134
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,600
just kind of as another player 
in this sphere about these kinds

135
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,840
of things, just, you know, 
starting a website covering IU 

136
00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:34,240
basketball all these years, 17 
years. 

137
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,080
So, you know, that's what kind 
of go back to the free flowing 

138
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,680
conversation. 
That's that's what this podcast 

139
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,600
is going to be. 
So people are like, man, what 

140
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,520
are they going to talk about 
Balo? 

141
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:43,880
What are we going to talk about 
the season? 

142
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,440
Like what we'll get to that at 
the end. 

143
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,000
But I also think we, if you want
that, I would go back and listen

144
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,040
to the podcast that you and I 
did a couple weeks ago on your 

145
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,560
feet. 
So I think we hit a lot of those

146
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,080
topics. 
I will also say we're recording 

147
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,680
this Monday, October 7th. 
I'll probably save this and 

148
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,960
release it later on in the week.
Just kind of a dead period with 

149
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,120
IU football not having a game 
this weekend. 

150
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,920
So if something wild happens 
like between now and then and I 

151
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,040
and I release it and we don't 
talk about it, that that would 

152
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,800
be why. 
So anyway, back to this. 

153
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,080
You know, you you said inside 
the hall has been around 17 

154
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,720
years. 
Like the first thing is just I'm

155
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,920
curious and and by the way that 
the respect goes both ways. 

156
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,680
I I love what you guys do. 
I think you guys obviously are 

157
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,080
one of the first you know, I 
don't say blogs out there, but 

158
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,680
websites doing it. 
You guys nailed the name like 

159
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,760
just on naming is such a hard 
thing. 

160
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,520
You guys nailed it. 
But you've had, I've always 

161
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:39,000
thought the kind of the most 
like pointed view of Indiana 

162
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,920
basketball, like a very Fairview
of of what you're looking at. 

163
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,400
There's been a lot of other 
sites out there. 

164
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,360
I think some of them take either
a way too positive you a way too

165
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,280
negative. 
You you you guys have felt like 

166
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,160
you've always been the most 
objective, I should say about 

167
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,400
it. 
And, you know, you kind of call 

168
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,200
it like, you see, it's like, 
I've always appreciated that. 

169
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,640
But I'm just curious, you know, 
why when you know, tell us about

170
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,360
like starting inside the hall 
and like, why? 

171
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,560
Why did you decide to start that
when you did? 

172
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,640
Yeah. 
How, how long do we have, Scott?

173
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,960
Do we have? 
Or Crimson cast, baby, we can 

174
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,160
go, We can go 90 minutes, two 
hours. 

175
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,720
It's yeah. 
OK, well, I'll, I'll try to give

176
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,680
the most concise version of 
this. 

177
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,720
So, you know, I just kind of on 
my background a little bit. 

178
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,520
You know, I, I started, I, I 
went to New Albany, which is 

179
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,400
obviously in southern Indiana. 
I started my college experience 

180
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,039
at IU SE, which is the regional 
campus down here and went to IU 

181
00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:35,960
then for a year and a half and 
then actually came back and 

182
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,960
finished up at IUS. 
So I kind of a disjointed path 

183
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,400
to a college degree. 
I did, I did graduate in, in 

184
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,400
four years. 
You know, I wasn't a big, I was 

185
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,240
a college basketball fan growing
up. 

186
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,280
I wasn't a big like necessarily 
IU fan, you know, I followed the

187
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,880
program, but I, I, I just loved 
college basketball. 

188
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,880
I remember some of my earliest 
memories of, of watching IU 

189
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,600
games in the early 90s. 
I remember some of those teams 

190
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,080
were, were great fun, fun to 
watch teams. 

191
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,240
And I still remember, you know, 
the year Alan Henderson got hurt

192
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,360
and IU could have definitely 
done some, some damage had that 

193
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,720
not happen. 
But anyway, just kind of give 

194
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:13,880
you a little background on, on 
that. 

195
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,160
Obviously, my dad's been a 
sports writer for a long time, 

196
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,280
started out at the Louisville 
Career Journal. 

197
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,040
I think it was maybe the 
Louisville Times at that point 

198
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,840
in the late 70s. 
And so I grew up in a house 

199
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,920
where, you know, we had the Hoop
Scoop coming in the mail with 

200
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,240
the recruiting rankings. 
We had the Sporting News coming 

201
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,120
in the mail. 
We had every morning I was 

202
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,720
reading the newspaper. 
So sports were always kind of 

203
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,680
just like ingrained in me from 
an early age. 

204
00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,560
And I was more of also my dad's 
a huge White Sox fan, so I was a

205
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,960
baseball fan too. 
But sorry for this year. 

206
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,360
Sorry, sorry for your, your loss
this year. 

207
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:52,040
Horrible, horrible. 
But anyway, you know, so I, I 

208
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,840
always was interested in sports 
and, but when I came, I got out 

209
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,160
of college, I graduated with a 
political science degree. 

210
00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,640
I had no idea what I wanted to 
do. 

211
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,240
Like, I thought I wanted to go 
to law school. 

212
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,680
I didn't obviously end up doing 
that. 

213
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:09,200
And I I started working kind of 
nights and weekends at the 

214
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,160
Courier in Louisville, taking 
like high school scores, like 

215
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,520
they would call in the games and
I would write a little blurb up.

216
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,360
I was like just trying to break 
into the industry and went have 

217
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,320
any way to get involved because 
I love sports and I didn't 

218
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,320
necessarily want to do exactly 
what my dad was doing, but you 

219
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,480
know, I was interested in it was
something to do. 

220
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,160
So I did that. 
And I kind of saw like, you 

221
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,720
know, I followed pig. 
I knew pigs before I started 

222
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,840
inside the hall because a friend
of mine that I'm Matt Dennison 

223
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,080
down here in southern Indiana 
does a radio show was was 

224
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,680
friends with pigs. 
And so I've met him a couple 

225
00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:46,000
times and had a ton of respect 
for what he was doing and 

226
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,120
followed a lot of the other IU 
websites as well. 

227
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:53,680
But you know, so so I, I come 
out of college and I, I knew 

228
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,360
Eamon Brennan a little bit. 
It was at IU and Ryan Carazza, 

229
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,120
who's now still with me at 
inside the hall through my 

230
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,520
sister who went to IU and worked
at the daily student with them. 

231
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,000
And, you know, I, as I just kind
of watched what they were doing.

232
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,480
They were blogging and other 
websites and I was like, there's

233
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,760
really no place like where 
there's just guys writing about 

234
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,880
IE basketball with maybe not 
with a press pass, but just like

235
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,000
kind of giving their thoughts. 
I'm like, this is not a terrible

236
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,520
idea to start this up and we'll 
see what happens. 

237
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,680
And that's kind of how the idea 
was, was born. 

238
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,080
I reached out to them and we, we
kind of started talking about it

239
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,480
and they, they were in that, you
know, they, they were still 

240
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,240
young, interested and wanted to 
do something like that. 

241
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,640
And we, we talked mostly via 
e-mail, which I still have those

242
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,400
emails and look through them 
from time to time. 

243
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,480
And we started trying to come up
with a name. 

244
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,600
I'll give Eamon credit. 
He did come up with inside the 

245
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,320
hall. 
So I always joke with him. 

246
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,000
Don't ask for any royalties Now.
It's been been too long. 

247
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,360
I'm I'll keep. 
We're keeping the name. 

248
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,160
Yeah, it's like. 
The Nike swoosh. 

249
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,840
Yeah, he, he, he obviously 
started it with us, the three of

250
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,600
us, and he moved on pretty 
quickly because he was, you 

251
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,800
know, a superstar in the career.
He went to ESPN. 

252
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,240
It was like, all right, we 
started inside the halls like in

253
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,920
the December, 10th December, I 
think, or later in 2010, he 

254
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,960
wrote a post like, all right, 
guys, I can't, I really, I can't

255
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,160
really dabble on this anymore. 
Like I'm going to work for ESPN.

256
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,600
I'm writing about college 
basketball. 

257
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,720
So we're still for him, 
obviously, but me and Ryan have 

258
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:25,600
kept at it and it's been like a 
learning experience for me 

259
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,000
because I didn't really start it
with the idea of like this is 

260
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,560
going to be my job or my 
business. 

261
00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:31,920
There was a lot of, you know, 
there was 3 or 4, three or four 

262
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,800
years when we first started it 
and wrote everything. 

263
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,440
And I don't think earned any 
money from it. 

264
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,280
It was like just a hobby. 
And so it's, it's grown into 

265
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,120
obviously a business and some 
days it feels more like work 

266
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,840
than others. 
But I still kind of go back to 

267
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,360
the fact that it was something 
that I was just interested in 

268
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,080
and had a passion for sharing my
thoughts on on the subject. 

269
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,480
And I think that's in any 
business, that's kind of the 

270
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,800
best path you can take is, you 
know, try to do something that 

271
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,080
you have a passion about, 
passion about or are interested 

272
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,920
in and and usually doesn't feel 
like work. 

273
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,240
Yeah, and it's, it's funny, we 
have, I, I feel wild saying 

274
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,200
this. 
We have younger listeners 

275
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,400
because I don't feel old, but 
we're old. 

276
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,880
Sorry, but it's, you know, it's 
it's weird to go back to those 

277
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,080
times when you're right. 
I mean, you know, outside of 

278
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,160
pigs, there was just no place 
for anyone to go who was into IU

279
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,120
basketball. 
And I kind of, you know, that's 

280
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,840
that's a little bit how Crimson 
cast started. 

281
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,880
GAIL and I had that background, 
but you know, I was living, I 

282
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,520
moved to Houston out of college 
and I lived in Saint Louis and 

283
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,280
it was like it was a struggle to
get information on IU 

284
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:35,840
basketball. 
You'd like search ESPN. 

285
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,280
And it's like if we weren't 
ranked, it kind of sucks. 

286
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:39,920
It was like, damn, we're not 
going to be on TV. 

287
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,560
No one's going to write about 
us. 

288
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,600
Like, I had to have my parents 
send me stuff for the Herald 

289
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,040
Times, like their website. 
It was kind of OK. 

290
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,840
And it, it, it's amazing to look
back and think that, you know, 

291
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,880
now we live in a universe where 
it's like, well, of course this 

292
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,280
makes sense. 
But it's like there was just 

293
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,080
nothing. 
Barely getting scores, let alone

294
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,440
like, you know, recruiting 
updates or, you know, a Big 10 

295
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,080
perspective from an Indiana 
point of view that just didn't 

296
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,200
exist before, you know, 2009 or 
so. 

297
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,040
Yeah, I mean, there was Hutch 
was doing some stuff I remember 

298
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,360
as indie * and he had like A 
blog, but, and there was at one 

299
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,680
time there was a, there was a 
blog on like I think the Courier

300
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,240
Journal's website had like A 
blog for IU, for U of L and for 

301
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,040
UK that they updated. 
But yeah, you're right, there 

302
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,200
wasn't a ton of other resources 
out there. 

303
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,840
And I didn't go into the idea 
was like, I'm going to compete 

304
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,920
with Peaks. 
Like I knew Peaks was already. 

305
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,720
And he'd been doing it since 
like 1998 or 99. 

306
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,480
It had a really dedicated 
following. 

307
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,520
And I was friendly with him. 
I was, I always, it was always 

308
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,600
weird like when I first started 
it because I would see him at 

309
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,040
different things and I didn't 
want him to think I was like 

310
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,960
trying to like step on his toes 
or anything or like I had, I 

311
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,880
have a ton of respect for him. 
And you know, I still see him at

312
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,040
from time to time at different 
events. 

313
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,920
Like last year he came home for 
or he came to a game at in 

314
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,400
Bloomington and got a chance to 
talk to him. 

315
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,680
Like I, I just respected the 
hell out of what he did and like

316
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,800
in terms of just building that 
community and everything. 

317
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,680
And I figured that the fan base 
was such that, you know, there 

318
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,720
was enough interest if if we put
our thoughts out there, we were 

319
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,920
just hopeful that somebody cared
about what we had to say. 

320
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,680
And I feel like with anything, 
you have to like do it for a 

321
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,120
consistent period of time and 
show people that you're serious 

322
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,560
about it before they'll take you
seriously. 

323
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,960
It's not like you can just start
writing something and then like 

324
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,080
six months, all the sudden you 
have a ton of followers, a ton 

325
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,840
of readers. 
It was a lot of time where we're

326
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,920
writing stuff probably that 
nobody read and but we just kept

327
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,440
over and over a consistent 
period of time. 

328
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,800
And I think that's how you kind 
of build a following and build 

329
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,560
trust with your readers. 
That's, you know, the, the, the 

330
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,280
people always ask me like, you 
know, how do you build a 

331
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,840
following? 
And I'm like, you got to be 

332
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,840
consistent. 
Like you can't post like for 

333
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,520
Crimson Cash, right? 
I mean, if you posted 3 podcast 

334
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,000
episodes this week and then you 
didn't post another one until 

335
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,080
February, people would be like, 
where's the podcast? 

336
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,680
Like you're, you're consistent. 
Like you, you got to show people

337
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,400
that you're, you got some skin 
in the game. 

338
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,200
So that to me was and it still 
is like the the consistency is a

339
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:13,440
huge part of it. 
No, I agree. 

340
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,680
And that's something I get asked
that every so often too. 

341
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,200
Like, you know, how do you get 
into this? 

342
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,480
And it's like, well, like I, I 
think I'm very tangentially in, 

343
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,840
but it's like you, just you, you
start doing it and like, if you 

344
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,280
do, you want to write about IU 
basketball or you want to do a 

345
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,200
podcast or a video cast or like 
whatever, like start doing it 

346
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,960
like just, there's nothing 
stopping. 

347
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,280
And I'm, I'm with you, do it. 
And I think the key is also like

348
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,520
there's probably going to be 
some lean years on the start. 

349
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,360
Like it's very, you know, we, we
had, you know, I our, our first 

350
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,960
couple of years, we were 
probably doing it just for Galen

351
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,480
and I like we actually found, we
went back. 

352
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,640
I was going through my Google 
Drive and I found the first like

353
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,400
year or two of Crimson cast 
audio and it's wild. 

354
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,720
It's just like, it is so wild to
listen to it. 

355
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,320
And it's like we're doing this 
just basically for ourselves and

356
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,480
just kind of testing out and 
trying things. 

357
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,040
I think the other thing that you
said that I think is I've always

358
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,359
felt too is you know, people ask
like, you know, you know, 

359
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,920
somebody starts a new podcast, 
you feel competition like no, 

360
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,720
like I the more people in the 
space, if they're doing it with 

361
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,960
their own perspective and they 
have something there. 

362
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,680
Like to me, it's like I I want 
more people in the space because

363
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,359
it's great and I love what you 
do. 

364
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,480
I love what we're doing. 
You know, there's like the 

365
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,440
hysterics came in, they had a 
different viewpoint and it's 

366
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,560
like, all right, that's that's 
cool. 

367
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,599
Like I the more people in is 
better. 

368
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,440
You know, we we're obviously big
fans like Taylor Layman and bite

369
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,640
sized Bison. 
You know, he's looking at it 

370
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,680
from a different, you know, 
football from a much different 

371
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,040
perspective. 
You know, I think if you're just

372
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,280
coming in trying to copy someone
else, that's a little bit. 

373
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,960
But like, you know, if you come 
in and you have your own voice 

374
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,800
and you just start doing it and 
you you're consistent. 

375
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,040
You know that that's how you 
start. 

376
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,240
I found it interesting, you 
know, with all of these tools 

377
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:55,520
available, but now it doesn't 
feel like there are more shows 

378
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,200
and websites popping up and or 
maybe I'm just not searching it 

379
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,160
out enough. 
I feel like little ones pop up 

380
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,400
here and there, but for a fan 
base that says devoted and for 

381
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,920
students who are as into it and 
have all of this stuff at their 

382
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,040
disposal, I'm surprised there 
are 25 other websites like 

383
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,600
inside the Hall or 30 more 
podcast doing this. 

384
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,320
Not that I want more 
competition. 

385
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,480
I just, that's one thing that 
I've been interested in the last

386
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,240
like 10 years is that there 
isn't a lot of other people out 

387
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,760
there doing it. 
It. 

388
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:22,640
I don't know. 
I just. 

389
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,040
I find that interesting. 
Yeah. 

390
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:33,600
I mean, I think now it, it's, I 
think the hard part is breaking 

391
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,680
in and I think that you might, 
there might be things you never 

392
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,320
see because they were started 
and then somebody did it for a 

393
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,640
couple weeks or a couple months 
and then kind of gave up because

394
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,560
they weren't getting a creating 
any traction. 

395
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,440
And it's harder now than it was 
when, you know, when you started

396
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,360
with Crimson cast or when I 
started inside the hall. 

397
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,520
It's a different completely. 
I mean, look how much the 

398
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,480
internet's changed over that 
period of time. 

399
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,640
I mean, it's Twitter wasn't 
even, we weren't even on Twitter

400
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,440
when inside the hall started or 
X, whatever they're calling it 

401
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:00,840
now. 
But I think that was I was 

402
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,680
looking at. 
I joined in 2009 and I'm like, I

403
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,520
can't even really remember a 
time before that. 

404
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,520
And there was actually a couple 
years and it's just the way 

405
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,600
information is exchanged now is 
just completely different. 

406
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,000
And it's going to continue to 
change. 

407
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,280
So that that's the other thing 
is if you don't continue to 

408
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,400
evolve with the market, then 
someone else is going to, you 

409
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,560
know, pass you or take take from
your readers. 

410
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:28,640
And I agree with you. 
I'm not. 

411
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,400
I think the competition's a 
great thing because you give 

412
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,120
people an option of finding kind
of what they what they like and 

413
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:38,760
what they enjoy. 
And you know, it helps make 

414
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,320
everybody else better, right? 
If it was just if you were the 

415
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,080
only podcast talking about IU 
football or I was the only 

416
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,000
website or, you know, Ryan and I
were running the only website 

417
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,280
that talked about IU basketball,
It's like how how is that 

418
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,400
helping disseminate, you know, 
information to people? 

419
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,200
Because, you know, it's just one
perspective. 

420
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,160
And I think it's good to have as
many perspectives as possible. 

421
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:05,880
So it's, yeah, it's, it's a lot 
of fun still, but it's also, 

422
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,240
it's just. 
For me, the, the biggest 

423
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,880
challenge is like learning the 
business side of things, because

424
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,760
when you start something like 
this, you don't you do it as a 

425
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,120
hobby, right? 
And you're not, you didn't, it 

426
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,720
wasn't like I was formally 
trained and like how to run a 

427
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,160
small business, how to, you 
know, organize that and all the 

428
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,920
other stuff that kind of comes 
with that from that perspective 

429
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,360
are things that I'm like, that's
not, I just want to write the I 

430
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,720
just want to write stories and 
share my perspective. 

431
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,560
But now there's so many other 
things that come with it that I 

432
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,320
have to think about that I'm 
still learning those things 

433
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,960
everyday. 
Yeah, we, we never took that 

434
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,520
next step. 
We kept it in hobby face. 

435
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,080
We didn't go business. 
I'm curious early on, what was 

436
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,760
the process like getting press 
credentials from, from IU and 

437
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,160
talk about maybe some of your 
first experiences like covering 

438
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,120
IU as part of the media, because
that, that's something, you 

439
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,760
know, I, I think for what you 
guys were doing, obviously, you 

440
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,040
know, you, you wanted that 
access was going to make it, you

441
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,960
know, you weren't just going to 
be like from a fan's perspective

442
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,840
and just you, you want and 
having that access would 

443
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,520
definitely help. 
It's something I know for us, we

444
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,400
just always kind of took the 
approach of like, I don't, I 

445
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,920
don't think that helps us at 
all. 

446
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,600
And I think it'll, you know, we 
can be a little bit probably, I 

447
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,440
don't think it affects your 
judge mental ability, but I 

448
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,440
just, I don't know something we 
just never went down that road. 

449
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,360
So I'm just curious what that 
process was like early on when 

450
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,240
you're just like a website who's
writing stuff and you know, you 

451
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,480
go to IU and like, what what the
hell are you talking about? 

452
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,320
I'm assuming they're probably 
like a little bit dismissive 

453
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,600
from the get go. 
Well, it was, you know, when we 

454
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,760
started out, we didn't use our 
real names like we had nicknames

455
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,600
that we wrote on the site. 
And so that was like the 1st 2 

456
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,360
1/2 three years. 
And we, we finally got to the 

457
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,960
point where I think I got to the
point where like, I wanted to 

458
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,600
start going to some stuff like 
going to games. 

459
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,560
And so I don't remember if it 
was JD Campbell reached out to 

460
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,440
me or I reached out to him. 
But to this day, you know, JD 

461
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,040
has obviously moved on from IU, 
but we still talk like this is a

462
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,200
relationship that was built over
a long period of time. 

463
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:10,280
And in many ways, JD was so, so 
helpful for me in terms of just 

464
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,240
kind of getting me in the door 
there. 

465
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,480
And he was very receptive of 
what we were trying to do. 

466
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,840
Like once he knew who we were 
and what we were, what we were 

467
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,240
about, what we were trying to do
is very receptive of what we 

468
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,120
were doing and was what to give 
us credentials. 

469
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:28,320
And so it wasn't like a, there 
wasn't ever a time I was like, 

470
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,040
I, you was going to say, no, 
you, you're not welcome here, 

471
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,320
you can't come. 
So I think, I think putting our 

472
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,040
names on everything kind of 
helped kind of solidify our 

473
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,160
legitimacy. 
And then once we did that, we 

474
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,720
started to to cover games and, 
and then obviously, you know, 

475
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,360
with me not living in 
Bloomington, I think really the 

476
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,160
thing that helped us was being 
able to, and Galen helped a lot 

477
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,000
with this and still does now 
from time to time with like 

478
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,840
helping us identify students at 
IU that could work with us. 

479
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,480
Because obviously I'm not going 
to be, there was a time when I 

480
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,520
went to every game and that 
that's kind of old after a 

481
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:01,560
while, like. 
A lot of driving. 

482
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,880
Driving home at 2:00 AM and so 
we've got students on the ground

483
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,160
there in Bloomington that are 
doing a lot of the game coverage

484
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,240
and, and being at press 
conferences after games and 

485
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,920
things like that. 
Now that that really help out 

486
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,120
from that perspective. 
But no, they were IE was great. 

487
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:25,040
You know, Fred Glass was always 
super nice to to me and had him 

488
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,280
on the podcast a couple years 
ago. 

489
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,360
Dolson's been on the podcast and
it's always nice and friendly. 

490
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,120
And obviously JD and now the Sid
now Charlie Duffy, Jeff Keg 

491
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:34,440
there. 
They've always been super 

492
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,280
accommodating. 
So I think they've been no, I 

493
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,040
can, I can say they were far 
more welcoming than a lot of 

494
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,760
like the schools that we like, 
we try to go cover Rd. games 

495
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,600
for. 
I can tell you a story one time 

496
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,280
from it was the Oladipo Zeller 
season where they were number 

497
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,040
one for a lot of the year. 
So the 2000, what 1213 year? 

498
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,240
Yep, Yep. 
And and we, I was pretty, we 

499
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,360
were pretty deep into coverage 
by that point. 

500
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,280
Like, we had a established 
following and we were, we were, 

501
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,960
I was a member of the Basketball
Writers Association and I had, 

502
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,200
you know, other people vouching 
on my behalf. 

503
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,920
But Ohio State for some reason 
didn't want to let us cover the 

504
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,640
game there. 
And so Cream found out about it.

505
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,240
And he was like, you couldn't 
believe like that they didn't 

506
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,920
want to let me in. 
And so he somehow working with 

507
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,680
JD, JD was like, we're going to 
get you in. 

508
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,800
Just don't worry about it. 
It's not a not a big deal. 

509
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,080
So I show up at the arena and I,
I send him a text or whatever. 

510
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,000
So he sends somebody up there 
with like this, this ticket. 

511
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,400
And I'm sitting like directly 
behind the bench with my laptop 

512
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,080
right there, the IU bench. 
Yeah, this is, I'm like, JD, 

513
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,720
this is like, I remember 
somebody sent a screen grab like

514
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,840
on TV and like, what are you 
doing behind the bench? 

515
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,000
Like I'm sitting there next to 
Marni Mooney, who was like the 

516
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,320
at that time, the director of 
like the academic and all the 

517
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,400
parents and stuff were behind 
me. 

518
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,280
And I'm like on my laptop right 
there, like trying to like do 

519
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,600
things. 
And I'm like, this is great, 

520
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,920
like great seat. 
Like I'm in the building, but 

521
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,200
I'm thinking to myself, how am I
going to get in the press 

522
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,600
conference? 
Like, how's this going to work? 

523
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,280
And so they handed me this pass.
It was like this, you know, 

524
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,760
whatever, all access type thing.
And I and I went in the media, 

525
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,960
remember the game and filmed the
filmed the press conference. 

526
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,720
And so that was, it sounds like 
the only time I can remember 

527
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,640
like that somebody didn't like 
want to let us in. 

528
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,880
But other than that, I feel like
there was a process at one 

529
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,440
point, like from the Basketball 
Writers Association, where they 

530
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,720
kind of saw where websites were 
going and they made this task 

531
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:50,200
force to identify websites that 
were in their eyes, legitimate 

532
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,680
in terms of being being able to 
get credentials. 

533
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,920
And we were we went through a 
vetting process and us and 

534
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,280
there's an AUM hoops, which is 
Michigan site that we're really 

535
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,120
close with. 
They were on the list and some 

536
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,360
other websites. 
And so once the Basketball 

537
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:06,160
Writers Association published 
this lit this list, anytime 

538
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,360
somebody kind of gave pushback 
on credentials, it was like I 

539
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:11,280
kind of was able to point to 
that and say, hey, like we're 

540
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,320
not just some 5 by night site 
that just popped up, like we're 

541
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,600
actually trying to cover the 
team in a legitimate way. 

542
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,440
And you know, where we are a 
website, but I think it took a 

543
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,360
lot of time for people just to 
kind of understand like the IT 

544
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,960
was for a long time was like, we
don't credential websites. 

545
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,200
Certain places like Ohio State 
was like, you don't credential 

546
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,800
websites and they've let us in 
since it's no big deal. 

547
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,840
But that was, you know, 11 years
ago. 

548
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,760
So I will say from an IE 
perspective, though, they were 

549
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,200
kind of one of the first schools
that really kind of looked at 

550
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,960
websites as something that was 
legitimate. 

551
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,760
And they they let a ton of them 
in to this day. 

552
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,040
And that they've, they've been 
pretty cool with with 

553
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,440
credentials and everything. 
And like I said, they've they've

554
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,680
always been willing to to work 
with us and be accommodating, 

555
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,000
which I really appreciate. 
Yeah, I know. 

556
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,160
I know like coach with assembly 
call goes, goes the games on a 

557
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,240
credential pass and I think it's
I, I, it's, I think it's good. 

558
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,560
And like I think it shows that 
the universities are 

559
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,920
understanding that the changing 
media landscape. 

560
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,800
I'm curious from your 
perspective, having done this 

561
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,720
for so long with the IU fan 
base, what what drives the most 

562
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,120
traffic on the site? 
I mean, obviously when when the 

563
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,120
team is good like that 20, you 
know, 20/12/13 season, I know 

564
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,240
traffic was probably up, but I'm
just curious like is it pregame,

565
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,840
postgame, Is it recruiting? 
Is it postseason? 

566
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Like what? 
What? 

567
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,640
What do you know, you know, 
really drives traffic when 

568
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,640
you're going to put it up there?
Well, winning is number one, 

569
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,040
like a successful season. 
That's number one there. 

570
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,760
I always think to myself, I've 
been doing this since 2007 and I

571
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,560
used been to what, 3 Sweet 
Sixteens in that standpoint, 

572
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,680
they've not been like to the 
Elite 8 at all. 

573
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,080
I've never been to the Final 
Four. 

574
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,360
I'm thinking, what could this be
like if they actually were 

575
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,120
competing for Final Fours or 
winning the Big 10 regularly? 

576
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,720
It could be a lot different. 
And I think it's a testament to 

577
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:05,160
the IU fan base that I've been 
able to do this for so long 

578
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:11,000
despite the relative lack of 
success for the program because 

579
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,920
it just shows that these fans 
are going to support the program

580
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,120
unconditionally. 
Things could be, you know, as 

581
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,480
bad as they were under Archie 
Miller for those four years and 

582
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,360
people are still supporting the 
program. 

583
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,080
You know, coaching search 
obviously is up there too. 

584
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,960
I remember when they got rid of 
Archie. 

585
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,680
I remember actually this is when
they got rid of Crane. 

586
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,440
There was like 3 or 4 days where
our server was just completely 

587
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,080
like messed up. 
Like we, we couldn't do anything

588
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,280
and there was like nothing we 
could do because it was like 

589
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,120
every time they tried to change,
fix something or change 

590
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,800
something, if the avalanche of 
traffic just kept coming in. 

591
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,760
And that was before we kind of 
had the technology side of it 

592
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,880
figured out a little bit more. 
So there was nothing we can do 

593
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,720
from that standpoint. 
We just kind of had to let it 

594
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,080
let it die down a little bit and
and stabilize things. 

595
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,080
That's funny you mentioned that.
That was one of the highest 

596
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,080
stretches we ever had too. 
I mean, Galen went on like a 

597
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,320
podcast tear. 
He had like five in a row. 

598
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,080
But I I think at that point, the
Korean firing it is back when 

599
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,880
iTunes used to have like a 
ranking. 

600
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,640
And I think we made like Crimson
cast was in like the top five 

601
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,040
for college athletic like just 
sports podcast. 

602
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,040
Like it was wild. 
Our numbers just blew off the 

603
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,280
roof. 
So, yeah, coaching searches 

604
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,000
definitely do. 
And that, that Korean one, for 

605
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000
whatever reason, really, really 
lit things up. 

606
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,120
Yeah, I remember driving down to
Georgia Tech for that NIT game 

607
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,800
and then driving back and I'm 
thinking, when's this going to 

608
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,960
happen? 
Like I got to make sure I get 

609
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,720
home before I this can't happen.
Why? 

610
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,000
I'm somewhere along 65 in 
Tennessee we can't have. 

611
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,800
And luckily I made it home and I
think it was like a day later. 

612
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,840
The NIT game we sold, by the 
way, we should have. 

613
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,080
It should have been an assembly 
hall. 

614
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,880
Yeah, that was that. 
Man, that was weird. 

615
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,840
That was weird going to that 
press conference with Crane 

616
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,960
afterward and people were asking
questions and I don't think he 

617
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,120
fully knew for sure what was 
going to happen, but you could 

618
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,960
just tell like his demeanor and 
his the way he talked about it, 

619
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,560
He he was very concerned like 
about his future. 

620
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,320
But you know, getting back to 
your your question, just in 

621
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,640
terms of what drives interest 
recruiting still to an extent, 

622
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,880
but I think recruiting like 
traditional recruiting has 

623
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,960
changed. 
Like the portal this past 

624
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,280
offseason was huge. 
Like it was some of the best 

625
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,520
traffic we've ever gotten. 
And now obviously you'll get 

626
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,080
like small bumps for things like
Trent Sicily committing and I 

627
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,320
think Braylon Mullins coming up 
will be a pretty big deal 

628
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,400
regardless of of where he goes. 
But I just think the recruiting 

629
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,560
coverage in general has changed 
that. 

630
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,720
People are more now, I think 
invested and excited about the 

631
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,080
portal, which is just kind of 
weird like you used to when the 

632
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,680
season ended in late March, 
things used to die down pretty 

633
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,440
quickly. 
And I think this year like 

634
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,920
through like the end of May, 
things were pretty hot and heavy

635
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,520
in terms of the traffic that we 
were getting. 

636
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,560
So that that, that that's 
obviously a big one. 

637
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:05,720
And then obviously when when 
there's things like, you know, 

638
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,560
NCAA investigations or bad news,
things like that, also kind of 

639
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,200
Dr. negativity also 
unfortunately drives clicks. 

640
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,240
I mean, when they had that 
accident, you know, like it was 

641
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,800
a 2015 or 16, 2014 maybe with 
the Devin Davis thing. 

642
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,080
I don't remember that being a 
big thing. 

643
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,440
And but overall, I think the 
number one thing is just 

644
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,520
winning, like when I use good 
and the team's winning a lot of 

645
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,080
games, which I think everybody's
hopeful for. 

646
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,160
That's going to be the case this
year. 

647
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,280
I think it could be good for 
everybody involved. 

648
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,600
Podcasts, websites, social 
media, following I. 

649
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,400
Agree. 
You talk about recruiting, is 

650
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,800
there 1 recruit over the years 
that you wish we would we would 

651
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,120
have gotten? 
Gary Harris, I would say, OK, 

652
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,440
that that was that's probably 
the one that I'll look at and 

653
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:58,280
say I don't know how much he 
would have changed things for 

654
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,040
that one season, but because 
they already had OL Depot, 

655
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,480
obviously, but just imagine him 
on that team with Yogi and 

656
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,160
Oladipo Zeller, Watford, she I 
mean, like, what if he's your 

657
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,920
6th man? 
I mean, he's I thought he was 

658
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,840
just a tremendous player as a 
high school high school player. 

659
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,760
And you look at the rest of that
recruiting class, it was 

660
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,040
largely, I mean, it was talked 
about as like the movement, but 

661
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,760
it was largely a bust everywhere
else. 

662
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,880
I mean, Perea was a guy that I 
thought was going to be really 

663
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,600
good just from CM and AU with 
the tools, but it never really 

664
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,320
worked out. 
Peter Jerkin clearly didn't have

665
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,640
a big role. 
Ron Patterson signed and then 

666
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,760
never really, I don't think, I 
don't think he lasted through 

667
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,680
the first summer. 
I think he went to like school 

668
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,920
after that. 
And then Jeremy Hollowell was 

669
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,920
another guy that had to go 
elsewhere and to find like his 

670
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,080
role in college and didn't play 
a huge role. 

671
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,800
I think 2 years he spent in 
Bloomington. 

672
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,840
So that to me looking back at 
that class, but but yeah, just 

673
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,720
think about Gary Harrison and 
Yogi for multiple years in 

674
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,840
Bloomington. 
That would have been a lot of 

675
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,640
fun. 
So that that probably the one I 

676
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,680
look at least since I've been 
covering the team that I guess 

677
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,520
the one that kind of got away. 
How about you? 

678
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,760
Is there any that's a good? 
One, it's a little bit before 

679
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,000
both of our times, but I and I 
don't I mean this is the the the

680
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,000
reporting wasn't quite the same 
back then, but just Greg Oden 

681
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,040
still kills me. 
I mean that probably keeps Mike 

682
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,240
Davis here for a while. 
So that's a whole nother like, 

683
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,960
how does that roll out? 
But you know, the the the rumor 

684
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,560
always was that, you know, he 
just wouldn't recruit Davis, 

685
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,160
wouldn't recruit Mike Conley, 
which is funny because like Mike

686
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,920
Conley still playing in the NBA 
and was was I mean it's not like

687
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,000
he sucked in college either. 
He was a huge part of that. 

688
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,680
But it's, you know, you, you 
look at those teams. 

689
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,920
I mean, I think that was like it
would have been with like Marco 

690
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,800
Killingsworth and I I'm not sure
who else is on those like teams 

691
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,160
that it would have been. 
But you know, that was an Ohio 

692
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,480
State program that was kind of 
just going along. 

693
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,360
And then like they add those two
dudes and it's like they're in 

694
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,560
the final four just like that. 
Like it just happened. 

695
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,760
So that's one that always hurt. 
And then this is very personal 

696
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,120
for me. 
You know, with football there is

697
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,760
right when my wife and I moved 
back pretty shortly thereafter, 

698
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,560
Demarlo Belcher was a wide 
receiver for football who went 

699
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,639
to North Side where my wife went
to high school up in Fort Wayne.

700
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:18,560
That was always like really cool
to root for a player who went to

701
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,120
her high school. 
As I've mentioned many times, my

702
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,159
wife is a teacher at Westfield 
up here. 

703
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,000
She had Braden Smith in class 
and it's like he's right up 

704
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,239
here. 
I'm watching him play high 

705
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,760
school basketball like it's 
Westfield and I think he's also 

706
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,000
a great player to watch and like
embodies everything. 

707
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,880
And then just like not only 
doesn't go to IU, goes to 

708
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,080
Purdue, like it just it sucks 
all the way around. 

709
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,360
Like I think Braden is awesome. 
I don't think he's a program 

710
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,280
changing player like maybe 
Harris or Odin is, but it's it's

711
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,880
very personal to me that it's 
just and it's still going on 

712
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,360
that it's like, damn it, that 
would have been perfect to have 

713
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,639
him somebody I could root for. 
And it's not. 

714
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,640
And then seeing all everybody 
around here being huge Purdue as

715
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,520
they like Braden, as they should
be. 

716
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,120
Fans of Braden Smith because we 
live in Westfield and he's a 

717
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,160
great example of of, you know, 
what we produce. 

718
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,160
But it's like, but there weren't
Purdue stuff. 

719
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,200
So that one's it. 
That one is continuing to hurt 

720
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,040
Alex. 
Did you see him at all in high 

721
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,680
school? 
I watched him a little bit, 

722
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,640
yeah. 
What'd you think? 

723
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,640
I thought he was a good play. 
I mean, that was a good. 

724
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,920
I didn't see this. 
I, I didn't think this was going

725
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:23,880
to happen. 
I thought he was good. 

726
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,160
Yeah. 
And I thought he was really 

727
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,480
good. 
I couldn't understand why Archie

728
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,600
wasn't on him more. 
I I would agree it. 

729
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,240
Didn't It didn't make a lot of 
sense to me. 

730
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,760
Like now breaking news here. 
I mean, everything that I heard,

731
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,520
he was he, he, you know, his, 
his family was, was fans of IU 

732
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,600
and I think he would have would 
have been very receptive to any 

733
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,440
kind of recruiting. 
But my understanding is he 

734
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,920
wasn't even got a sniff from 
Archie. 

735
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,080
Another one, another one that 
just popped into my head was 

736
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,840
Kyle Guy. 
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

737
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,520
Because everything you heard 
with him was like he was 

738
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,640
receptive to IE too. 
And I know they recruited him 

739
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,760
and offered him, but it was 
almost like they didn't go 110% 

740
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,440
after him. 
Then he goes on to Virginia and 

741
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,640
look at the success they had 
wins the national championship 

742
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,560
so. 
Yeah, As we talk about this, it 

743
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,160
leads to another question, 
something that me and other 

744
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,960
friends talk about when we get 
deep and IU basketball, 

745
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,320
something GAIL and I used to 
talk about a lot more. 

746
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,560
But I'm just curious to ask you 
like I have my answer to this 

747
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,200
question, but I will obviously 
ask you first. 

748
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,080
You look at all these other 
programs, you know, UCLA, North 

749
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,640
Carolina, Kentucky, teams that, 
you know, we're blue bloods or 

750
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,480
still blue bloods or teams that 
kind of have gone up and down. 

751
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,080
You know, do do you think 
there's anything inherent 

752
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,720
holding Indiana back from being 
elite or do you think, but I'll,

753
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,480
I'll leave it there, Like do you
think there's anything and what 

754
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,480
would it be that's holding 
Indiana back from getting back 

755
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,640
to an elite program? 
Wow. 

756
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,160
It's a tough question and I'm 
not thought about it in depth, 

757
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:02,040
but like off the top of my head,
I think what you see as some of 

758
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:08,560
the other programs is maybe less
patience in terms of when things

759
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,120
go poorly. 
But looking back in North 

760
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,120
Carolina, when was it? 
Dardy was there for a couple 

761
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,960
years and it was bottomed. 
Out. 

762
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,600
Years, right, I think he bought 
bottomed out like pretty quickly

763
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,000
and I was like, all right, this 
isn't going to work. 

764
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,760
We got to make sure we go get 
the guy. 

765
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:32,880
I I think, I think they've 
actually not done a terrible job

766
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,680
with the hires in terms of who 
the coaches are. 

767
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,920
Going back to Samson, he was a 
really good coach, obviously a 

768
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,640
proven guy that went to the 
final four at Oklahoma and now 

769
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,120
look at what he's doing at 
Houston. 

770
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,720
You kind of look at that and 
say, man, if you could have just

771
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:51,280
kept off the three-way calls, 
what what could he have built in

772
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,600
Bloomington? 
I know there was some off the 

773
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,680
court stuff, but he was actually
a pretty solid hire. 

774
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,520
Tom Crean, when they hired him, 
he'd he'd gone to a Final Four 

775
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,360
at Marquette. 
He had Dwyane Wade and had some 

776
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,040
really high moments, but there 
was just not the consistency. 

777
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,920
Archie Miller looked like a a 
slam dunk to everybody. 

778
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,400
He was the the hot name in the 
coaching carousel that season. 

779
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,520
And you look at that coaching 
cycle, if you would have told me

780
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,440
Archie was going to be the worst
of the three Big 10 hires that 

781
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,400
year, which were Chris Holtman, 
Brad Underwood and Archie, I 

782
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:24,960
would have told you probably you
were crazy. 

783
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,240
But Brad Underwood now to me is 
the top three for coach in the 

784
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,480
Big 10. 
Holtman was really good early at

785
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,760
Ohio State and made a lot of 
NCAA tournaments, but again, 

786
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,480
they didn't that wasn't good 
enough. 

787
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,520
So they made a move with him and
now he's at the Paul. 

788
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,200
And then Archie obviously got 
four years in Indiana, never 

789
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,080
makes a tournament. 
So I don't necessarily think 

790
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,320
there's anything holding the 
back, but I do think like you've

791
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,200
got to have the right hire at 
the right time. 

792
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,880
And I don't necessarily think 
they've had that with with 

793
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,200
Woodson. 
You know, I think a lot of 

794
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,480
people, I think maybe he thinks 
based on I'll listen to an 

795
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,960
interview with him over the 
weekend that he did up at Big 10

796
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,200
Media Day with CBS Sports. 
I'm not sure if you listen to 

797
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,440
it. 
Yeah, it was a Matt Norlander. 

798
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,280
It was like 11 or 12 minutes. 
It's on YouTube. 

799
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,440
If you cannot watch it, check it
out. 

800
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,480
But he he was asked like a 
couple questions and he like 

801
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,320
brought up the fans in the media
like a criticism a little bit. 

802
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,920
And it's like, you know, I, I 
remember like after Woodson's 

803
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,520
first couple years, I was like 
super complimentary of him from 

804
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,320
the standpoint of, you know, 
bringing in the pieces that he 

805
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,800
did, going to the tournament for
two straight years, retaining 

806
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,600
Trace Jackson Davis, you know, 
making, you know, the tournament

807
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,560
to me was a big deal over two 
years. 

808
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,920
And then last year was a step 
back. 

809
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,640
And I think a lot of this like 
basically acknowledge that it 

810
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,160
wasn't the the results of 
Indiana should have had and they

811
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,440
should have been a much better 
team. 

812
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,480
So I think this is very much 
like a year where he's going to 

813
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,120
have to prove a lot of things to
a lot of people. 

814
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,520
I think there's people are 
optimistic in terms of just the 

815
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,960
the program and the pieces on 
the team. 

816
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:11,840
But I think I think there's a 
lot of people who want to see, 

817
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,800
you know, a much better product 
this year. 

818
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,560
So kind of not, not to go on a 
tangent here, but I don't think 

819
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,400
there's anything inherently 
holding IU back. 

820
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,320
I just think it's all about 
getting the right coach at the 

821
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,160
right time. 
And I don't necessarily, I mean 

822
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,360
they've had, they've made some. 
What looked like at the time, 

823
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,040
solid hires, But you know, Billy
Gillespie also looked like a 

824
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,880
really good hire Kentucky until 
he wasn't. 

825
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,480
And there's countless other 
examples of coaches. 

826
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,960
I mean, you would have told me 
after Chris Holtman's first 

827
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,120
couple years at Ohio State that 
he'd now be coaching at the 

828
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,160
Paul. 
I would have told you you're 

829
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:50,440
crazy. 
So it's it's hard, you know, 

830
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,360
these everyone wants to kind of 
go play revisionist history and 

831
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,920
say, well, they should have 
hired this guy or they should 

832
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,240
have brought in this guy at that
time. 

833
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,360
But I can't look at any of the 
hires that they made. 

834
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,960
You know, Woodson was 
interesting just because I don't

835
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,320
think anybody saw that one 
coming. 

836
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,200
But at least you could see from 
the standpoint of, you know, he 

837
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,880
went to IU and they had gone 
outside the family for what the 

838
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,560
last three hires prior to that. 
And they wanted to get an IU 

839
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,040
guy. 
And I don't think a lot of 

840
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,320
people had a strong appetite for
Brandon Steve Alford. 

841
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:25,720
And there was he was probably 
the next logical candidate 

842
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:28,280
beyond that. 
And like I said, done, done 

843
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,760
well, did well his first two 
years. 

844
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,200
I think he took a step back last
year and got a lot to pre 

845
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,520
release it from a wins and 
losses perspective this year. 

846
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,440
But I think he knows that and I 
think the team's going to be 

847
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,040
much better. 
But I don't I don't know that 

848
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,480
anything's holding them back per
SE. 

849
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,160
I think it's, you know, if you 
had the right coach at the right

850
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,240
time, I think there's nothing 
stopping Indiana from getting 

851
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:53,040
back to that, you know, top 
five, top ten program status. 

852
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,720
Yeah, I, I agree with you. 
I mean, so real quick Fact 

853
00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:58,840
Check, it's Matt. 
We, we screwed up Matt Doherty 

854
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,440
with North Carolina. 
But I, I always look at Matt 

855
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,800
Doherty and Gillespie. 
You mentioned those two guys 

856
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,200
because it's funny, because you 
people look back as well. 

857
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,280
They sucked in like, you know, 
North Carolina and Kentucky 

858
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,680
don't screw around. 
They make changes. 

859
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,280
It's even more than that. 
I mean, you look at Doherty at 

860
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,440
North Carolina, he went 8 and 20
his second year. 

861
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,520
He was 19 and 16, 4:00 and 12:00
in the ACC, 6:00 and 10:00. 

862
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,680
But he was showing improvement. 
It's not like they were awful. 

863
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,080
They went to the NIT his second 
year and it's like not good 

864
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:26,800
enough. 
He's out. 

865
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,280
Gillespie had two years of 
Kentucky. 

866
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,080
He was 18 and 13 and 22 and 14. 
He was 12 and four in the SEC 

867
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,000
his first year and then eight 
and eight his second year. 

868
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,600
So a little bit back, but still 
22 and 14 his second year. 

869
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,360
And it's like that's not good 
enough. 

870
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,600
And I think it's, you know, 
people sometimes give Indiana 

871
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,840
this cred of like all their fans
are unreasonable. 

872
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,360
They don't give enough time. 
It's like, I, I think sometimes 

873
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,480
we give too much time. 
And I'm, I'm not speaking about 

874
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,320
current coaching at all. 
I just, I think when you look 

875
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,320
at, there's more of a longer 
term discussion. 

876
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,960
You look at Archie or what we 
did with Crean or even Davis, 

877
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,200
You know, we, I, I don't think 
we are an unreasonable fan base.

878
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,080
I, I think you look at some of 
those where it's like man 22148 

879
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:10,680
and eight in the conference with
Kentucky. 

880
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,000
That's that's pretty good. 
I mean, they just they're like, 

881
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,000
we're done. 
That's two years when he was the

882
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,840
hottest coaching prospect. 
But I, I agree a million percent

883
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,960
with you. 
I don't think there's anything 

884
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,840
holding IU back. 
And what I've always said is it 

885
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,760
does, you know, when, when you 
have the right hire at the right

886
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,640
time at the right place, things 
just click. 

887
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,160
And I, I think honestly, that's 
where I would say maybe IU just 

888
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,640
needs to be a little. 
And again, I'm not speaking 

889
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,160
toward this year at all. 
I just think at a high level, 

890
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,840
they probably need to be a 
little less patient and a little

891
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,520
more aggressive with what they 
do. 

892
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,800
Because, you know, the, the 
Archie thing to me again, is a 

893
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,360
great viewpoint. 
Like if Indiana would have hired

894
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,840
Underwood, it would have been 
like, you picked the wrong guy. 

895
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,840
Like, that was the third option 
of the three coaches. 

896
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,120
And you know, in the end, you 
want to pick the best player. 

897
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,640
But there is a piece as an AD 
where you have to kind of 

898
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,920
understand that you're you're 
playing a political game here 

899
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,360
too. 
So if you're going to, you know,

900
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,680
it's a fantasy example here. 
If you're like playing fantasy 

901
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,880
football, it's like if you don't
take Christian McCaffrey first 

902
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,360
this year, like you better know 
what the heck, you better nail 

903
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,400
that pick or else everyone's 
going to rail on you. 

904
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,760
And even then, they'll still 
make fun of you. 

905
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,440
And you know, same thing with 
drafting in the, in the pros. 

906
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,280
Sometimes you just have to take 
guys because it's like, I, I 

907
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,720
look stupid if I don't take this
guy, even if I think he's not 

908
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:36,080
the best pick. 
Long story short said, it's like

909
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,280
it's really hard to know how to 
hire the best coach in a cycle. 

910
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,640
Sometimes you pick a cycle and 
like you look at that Archie, 

911
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,960
you know, the, the, the Archie 
Underwood and Holtman cycle. 

912
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,680
It's like there wasn't maybe 
Underwood will get there, but 

913
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,360
it's not like there is a, you 
know, Bobby Hurley in there or 

914
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,360
you know, Danny Hurley in there.
Like there wasn't maybe a 

915
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,640
generational coach there. 
I, I look at this more as like 

916
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,200
you just maybe as an, as a 
staff, just need to be more 

917
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,080
aggressive and like we just need
to take more shots and get more 

918
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,280
at bats and just have more. 
And, you know, again, you just 

919
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,760
look at other programs, they 
maybe have a shorter hook than 

920
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,160
we do. 
And maybe that is what is 

921
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,080
slightly holding us back. 
And again, I don't, I'm not 

922
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,680
saying anything about Woodson 
this year or even next year's. 

923
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,680
I just, I think that that might 
be, you know, sometimes maybe 

924
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,920
you get a little too complacent.
And just like we got to give 

925
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,200
this more time, more time. 
It's like if you get it right, 

926
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:36,480
it doesn't, you know, it's going
to be right. 

927
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,960
I think it's really hard to 
figure out who's going to be a 

928
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,720
good coach. 
And so to me it's like the way 

929
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,200
to solve that is you just take a
bunch more cracks at the apple 

930
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,080
because it's really hard to 
tell. 

931
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:48,040
I don't know. 
Yeah. 

932
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,240
The other thing I think like 
right now with IU and 

933
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:57,120
specifically, I think that it's 
kind of a double edged sword 

934
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,320
from the standpoint of 
realistically, if you have to 

935
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,600
make A, and I'm not, I'm not 
saying anyway there's going to 

936
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,680
be a change anytime soon because
I think there's a really good 

937
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,360
chance that Mike Woodson has a 
great year and this discussion 

938
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,800
is completely gone. 
But you know, people that people

939
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,840
that really pushed last spring 
for a change like in the fan 

940
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,760
base, I looked at what happened 
at Louisville and Kentucky in 

941
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,240
terms of what they were able to 
hire and I said what Indiana 

942
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:26,840
fans have actually been happy 
with either of those hires. 

943
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,000
I think people would have been 
complaining about both of those 

944
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,520
hires because Pat Kelsey and 
Mark Pope, I believe, have 

945
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,120
combined for a grand total of 0 
NCAA tournament wins. 

946
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,240
Now you think about this, would 
you ever believe that Louisville

947
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:46,560
and Kentucky would have to go 
into a hiring process and end up

948
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,720
with a coach that had zero NCAA 
tournament success? 

949
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,840
Do you think Indiana fans, when 
there's a, whether it's, you 

950
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,480
know, a year from now or five 
years from now when Mike Woodson

951
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,000
retires, do you think they're 
going to be happy with a, hiring

952
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,160
a coach that's never won an NCAA
Tournament game? 

953
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,440
It's, it's just different. 
I mean. 

954
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,800
Well, and I guess I guess that 
would be if I had to say what is

955
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,960
holding Indiana back, that might
be it. 

956
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,960
Is there in this kind of weird 
no man's land of they're they're

957
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,800
like an elite team, but they're 
not really able to hire their. 

958
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,320
And and what I mean is like, you
look at what will take it to IU 

959
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,200
football, you look at what 
Signetti is doing with IU 

960
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,400
football and it's like, dude, 
this is a home run hire. 

961
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,200
But again, going back to my 
like, you also have to win the 

962
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,160
press conference a little bit if
you're the AD like in the 

963
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,520
offseason. 
There's no way Alabama could 

964
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,040
have hired Signetti. 
Like it's just I mean, he he had

965
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,200
Alabama ties. 
Like if they would have hired 

966
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,320
Signetti, that place would 
Tuscaloosa would have gone nuts.

967
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,280
Like are you insane? 
This guy JMU Like it would not 

968
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,560
have worked. 
I mean, Caleb De Boer is a 

969
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,280
fantastic hire. 
I think they only were able to 

970
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,000
hire him because he took 
Washington in the national 

971
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,200
championship game. 
I mean, if, if Washington kind 

972
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,360
of shits out middle of the year 
and doesn't make the College 

973
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,920
Football Playoff, you know, 
you're talking about two losses 

974
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,040
for Washington last year that 
let's just add 2 losses to their

975
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,360
schedule. 
It's like, that's still a really

976
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,080
good year for Washington. 
I don't think Alabama could have

977
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,600
hired De Boer as a team. 
And so you're, I, I do wonder if

978
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,280
Indiana's kind of stuck in the 
spot where they're not able to 

979
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,600
take a shot at. 
Like, you know, I think it was 

980
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,480
the year before we went for 
Archie, you know, Nate Oates was

981
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,080
available at Buffalo. 
It's like, I don't know if 

982
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,520
Indiana fans at that time would 
have been like, the hell are we 

983
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,440
doing? 
Like we're So I don't that that 

984
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,600
might be that might be we might 
be getting to our answer here is

985
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,840
that could be part of the 
problem is that, you know, some 

986
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,480
of these smaller schools like 
Alabama in basketball, they're 

987
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,280
able to take a shot. 
It's like, what do we have to 

988
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,880
lose? 
Like, let's let's just keep 

989
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,080
rolling the dice. 
And sometimes, you know, the the

990
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,160
guys like Signeti or Nate Oates 
are the ones that, you know, no 

991
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,080
other high level team would have
taken them. 

992
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,280
So they're able to make these 
runs at places that, you know, 

993
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,120
we're able to kind of take a a 
shot. 

994
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,640
I don't know. 
The other thing is these coaches

995
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,920
can stay where they are when is 
just as many games and not deal 

996
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,640
with the scrutiny that they 
would deal with that, IE right, 

997
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,000
like a Scott Drew, for example, 
he turned out Kentucky. 

998
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,000
He's at Baylor, He's won a 
national championship there. 

999
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:16,960
They gave him they gave him a 
new arena. 

1000
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,520
They've upgraded his practice 
facilities. 

1001
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,200
He's got all the money he wants.
He's basically the mayor of that

1002
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:22,960
area. 
He can do whatever he wants 

1003
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,880
from, you know, resources 
perspective. 

1004
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,840
I'm sure he's got whatever NIL 
he needs. 

1005
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,040
Why would he want the 
aggravation of going to Kentucky

1006
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,720
or Indiana or Louisville when he
can just stay at Baylor and win 

1007
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:35,720
as many games? 
Same thing with I mean, Hurley's

1008
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:37,360
a little bit different, but I 
think a lot of people, if you 

1009
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,160
had told people at the end of 
the season that the Lakers and 

1010
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,240
Kentucky were going to make a 
run at Hurley and he'd basically

1011
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:46,880
be like no to both. 
I mean, that's what other 

1012
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,080
basketball coaching jobs are 
more hope high profile than than

1013
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,880
those. 
And and he turned those down 

1014
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,520
because he realizes, you know, I
can do everything I want to do 

1015
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,120
from a wins and losses 
perspective. 

1016
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,800
There's not as much pressure on 
me at this place. 

1017
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:04,440
And I do think there's a 
probably you have to have the 

1018
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,040
right mindset to take the 
Indiana job. 

1019
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:12,480
And I mean that in the way of 
you're going to be the most 

1020
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,080
recognizable figure in many ways
in the entire state. 

1021
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,440
You're going to be every move 
you make, you know, every 

1022
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,280
recruit you don't get, every 
game you lose. 

1023
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,040
It's going to be talked about on
a podcast like this or it's 

1024
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,720
going to be written about on a 
website or social media. 

1025
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,080
You got to be pretty thick 
skinned. 

1026
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,160
Like you can't worry about 
what's being said on the 

1027
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,320
outside. 
And and that maybe that's not 

1028
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,160
everybody. 
I mean, I, I think that was one 

1029
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,120
of the problems with, you know, 
it would have been fine for 

1030
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,320
Archie if he would have won 
more. 

1031
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:42,760
I think he would have been 
completely fine. 

1032
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,040
But I don't think he understood 
when he came in, like what the 

1033
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,240
job was like from 
responsibilities, like with the 

1034
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,720
fan base and engaging the fan 
base and the media 

1035
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:55,800
responsibilities. 
And I can remember like times 

1036
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,400
when I saw him out at like high 
school games and stuff and he 

1037
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,480
like looked like completely 
like, I don't want to say 

1038
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,800
annoyed, but just uncomfortable 
that people like even wanted to 

1039
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,080
come up and talk to him or take 
a picture. 

1040
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,600
It's like, man cream, he was 
eating that stuff up. 

1041
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,840
He was like hugging people and 
taking pictures of that. 

1042
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,280
Like he understood that part of 
it. 

1043
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,400
So it's just a really complex 
job too from that standpoint, 

1044
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,960
because there's these crazy 
expectations, which I think is 

1045
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,560
great. 
The minute Indiana basketball 

1046
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,720
loses its expectations is the 
minute you know that it's going 

1047
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:29,240
to go even further down the the 
pegging order where it is like 

1048
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:31,760
right now, I'd say you look at 
Ken Palm, I think it's like a 

1049
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,560
top 25 job, which is still 
pretty good, which I think we 

1050
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,880
all believe it should be a top 
ten job just based on 

1051
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,200
performance. 
I'm not saying job, but 

1052
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,320
performance. 
That's the Ken Palm area. 

1053
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:48,240
That's where they're ranked. 
So it's, yeah, it's it's just a 

1054
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:52,200
really, it's just one of those 
jobs where you got to have the 

1055
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,720
right person. 
And I'd say there's only a 

1056
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:59,480
handful of those in the country 
where it's finding them right, 

1057
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,160
right ingredients and mixing 
them all together and find the 

1058
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,320
right person is not easy to do. 
And you've also still got, you 

1059
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,120
know, a large portion of the fan
base that's grew up watching 

1060
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,120
Indiana be dominant in the 70s 
and the 80s and into the early 

1061
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,240
90s. 
And those people are still 

1062
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,520
hoping and wishing that any and 
I could get back to that. 

1063
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,480
And I think those are 
expectations that are unlikely 

1064
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,640
to be the the run that Knight 
had in Bloomington and what he 

1065
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,560
did. 
I just, I don't know that 

1066
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,360
there's anybody you can hire and
be able to do that because look 

1067
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,440
at all the Big 10 titles he won,
winning three national 

1068
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,200
championships. 
It's a different era now, 

1069
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,600
college basketball. 
So I think the thing that 

1070
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,600
Indiana needs to get back to is 
just, we talked about this a 

1071
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,920
little bit on the on the 
podcast, on the Brink episode is

1072
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,920
get to the tournament every year
and give yourself chances to 

1073
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,080
advance. 
Like that's where what's missing

1074
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,080
is they've just not been at the 
table enough. 

1075
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,880
I mean, you're not going to, if 
you're not sitting at the table,

1076
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,120
you're not going to get fed, 
right? 

1077
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,920
I mean, you got to get there and
they've not gotten there nearly 

1078
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,320
enough. 
The thing with night is and 

1079
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,240
basketball was wildly different 
at that point, but you had, you 

1080
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,600
know, Branch McCracken, you had 
the years with, you know, two 

1081
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,880
titles. 
Indiana basketball had also 

1082
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,440
fallen off at that point as 
well. 

1083
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,480
And I think they were at that 
point where they were willing to

1084
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,040
take a shot at a young up and 
coming coach in night. 

1085
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,920
You know, I don't and again, 
this is obviously way, way 

1086
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,560
before my time, but it's it's 
almost like the the the seas 

1087
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,840
leveled with like, all right, 
you know, they realize the time 

1088
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,920
like, all right, we're not the 
same program we were before. 

1089
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,880
We can't get the best. 
I don't say bad, like we're 

1090
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,920
willing to take a real gamble 
here on a guy. 

1091
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,280
And that's that was you 
mentioned the run Knight had 

1092
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,920
like that was always the when 
when he passed away and we did 

1093
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,920
some kind of retro about a year 
ago, almost just from 

1094
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,600
retrospectives. 
Like the thing that I was amazed

1095
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,040
by was, I mean, I kind of knew 
this, but really looking at it, 

1096
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,200
just how effing young he was. 
Just he was so young and, you 

1097
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,160
know, everyone saw, you know, he
was I, I think, you know, he, he

1098
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,080
won his second or third title 
before anybody else had ever won

1099
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,640
like 1. 
I mean, he was like 35 and you 

1100
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,880
know, he, he looked older as a 
younger person. 

1101
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,440
I think he was only like 46. 
He's like my age when he won an 

1102
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,720
87. 
I mean, it was, it was wild, 

1103
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:19,800
just insane how young he was. 
And I think he was 29. 

1104
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,720
I'm doing all of memory, but you
know, right around there when 

1105
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:25,360
they hired him, like again, it's
like I think Indiana had gotten 

1106
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,200
to that point where they were 
willing to take a risk. 

1107
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,200
And maybe that's, you know, we 
as a fan base, if and when we 

1108
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,880
have a new coaching search, at 
some point, maybe we have to be 

1109
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,960
willing to like, look, let's 
let's take that risk, but 

1110
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,200
knowing that it may not work 
either. 

1111
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,640
I'm going to go off this, we'll 
kind of wrap up with with this, 

1112
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,440
you know, changing IU. 
There's always been talk about, 

1113
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,880
you know, the, the the silly 
things, the traditions and 

1114
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:52,880
stuff. 
I don't think any of that stuff 

1115
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,360
matters for like the program, 
like, you know, doing any kind 

1116
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,120
of change or anything would, 
would get us a title. 

1117
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,520
But I'm curious, what's 1 
tradition you wouldn't never 

1118
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,120
change the Indiana basketball 
and one tradition that you're 

1119
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,560
totally fine changing because I,
I have, I have, I have a couple 

1120
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,680
answers on this. 
I'm, I'm asking you blinds. 

1121
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,680
I didn't give you time to think 
about it, and I'm happy to go 

1122
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,160
first if you want time to think 
too. 

1123
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,440
I would say the one that I 
wouldn't want to change would 

1124
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,160
just be the the candy striped 
pants, because I think it's 

1125
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,360
something that people associate 
directly with the program. 

1126
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,760
And you know, you see kids and 
you see, I've seen kids as 

1127
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,800
little as three or four years 
old and I've seen like 

1128
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,320
grandfathers and wearing those 
at the games. 

1129
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,440
Like it's something that 
everybody like looks at Indiana 

1130
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,720
basketball and says like this is
what it other, other fan bases 

1131
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:49,880
like, like to make fun of it, 
which is like that's my reason 

1132
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,560
for like keep it, right? 
Like it bothers other people. 

1133
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,080
They get mad about like the 
candy stripe, like looks so 

1134
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,440
stupid or whatever. 
I'm like, it's Indiana's thing. 

1135
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,080
Like keep it, it's fine. 
Like the thing I was, and this 

1136
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,480
could be controversial. 
The thing that I don't really 

1137
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,520
care too much about seeing 
change will be having names on 

1138
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:11,040
the back of the jerseys because 
I, I just don't like I, I, I 

1139
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,520
don't think it's as big of a 
deal maybe as some people make 

1140
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,000
it out to be. 
It's always like, well, we play 

1141
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,120
for the name on the front, which
is true, but that doesn't mean 

1142
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,800
you can't have a name on the 
back of the jersey. 

1143
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:27,920
And now with NIL, I mean, 
imagine, excuse me, they, I know

1144
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,480
they've tried to sell like some 
jersey. 

1145
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,480
I was in Bloomington a couple of
years ago when I saw I think it 

1146
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,600
was like a hood gifino like 
jersey that had for sale at this

1147
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,560
Kirkwood place and it looked 
like terrible because it wasn't 

1148
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,520
like a actual jersey like. 
I know I see those around like I

1149
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,000
see Isaiah Thomas Jersey. 
He's like that. 

1150
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:44,800
That doesn't exist. 
That wasn't real. 

1151
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,800
Right, right. 
So I, I, I wouldn't have a 

1152
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,280
problem with it. 
I mean, I know a lot of people 

1153
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:56,240
would probably disagree, but I 
just, I think times change from 

1154
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:01,400
some of some things change and a
lot of programs, there's 

1155
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,320
probably a couple other ones 
that don't have the names in the

1156
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,200
back of the jersey, but they're 
few and far between. 

1157
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:07,760
And I, I just wouldn't have a 
problem. 

1158
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,520
Or maybe you 110% disagree with 
me, but I I just I wouldn't have

1159
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,720
a problem with that changing. 
No, it's, I mean, it's more fun 

1160
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:15,120
if we completely disagree, but 
we don't. 

1161
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:16,960
Those are my exact. 
I, I have a couple of the things

1162
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:18,160
that I'll change that I'll get 
to. 

1163
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,560
I completely agree. 
I think, you know, when I went 

1164
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,120
to IU, you know, I, I mentioned 
this, I did some media IU and 

1165
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,280
like, it was wild how 
uncoordinated IU was at the 

1166
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,400
time. 
But basketball was like its own.

1167
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,160
They had their own script logo. 
They had their own, you know, 

1168
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:35,760
Trident logo. 
They they just, they had 

1169
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,920
everything on their own and 
everyone else had a different, 

1170
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,440
they had different colors. 
I mean, at that point, you know,

1171
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,840
football was doing the Oval and 
the black, but literally there 

1172
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,200
was different variants of the IU
Trident across all sports. 

1173
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:48,840
But basketball like had their 
own. 

1174
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,160
The kind of the rounded version 
was like that was theirs. 

1175
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,120
They had their own shades of 
colors. 

1176
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,920
It was wild. 
But you also, you know, looking 

1177
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,840
back, the candy stripe was just 
basketball. 

1178
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,720
That's all it was. 
Now I and I love to see how IU 

1179
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,080
is kind of taking it, marketing 
it in a lot of other sports. 

1180
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:07,880
I know swimming and diving 
always had this candy stripes 

1181
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,600
too. 
So I, I, I rephrase that for a 

1182
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,520
SEC, but like, now you see it, 
you know, in football, like all 

1183
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,280
the sports, kind of take the 
candy stripe as, as, as an 

1184
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,760
Indiana thing. 
I think it's great. 

1185
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:19,840
So I agree with you. 
Like that would be the one thing

1186
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,440
I don't think you ever change 
because it's a great marketing. 

1187
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,720
It's a great differentiator. 
I agree with you on the names of

1188
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,360
the jerseys, especially in the 
NIL era. 

1189
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,920
It's it's a bit of a bygone era.
It it Harkins to that was a that

1190
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:37,800
was really a night thing And you
know, Knight had his time and he

1191
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,000
was great, but we've we've moved
on. 

1192
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,320
Not moved on is the wrong thing,
but it's like it's just it's a 

1193
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,040
different era. 
I I don't know you have to have 

1194
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,440
names in the jerseys on all 
games, But I I also think kind 

1195
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,560
of like I'm cool with monkeying 
with the jerseys a lot more. 

1196
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,920
I mean, in the in this world of 
secondary and alternative 

1197
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,640
jerseys into being a cool thing 
and having, you know, sales 

1198
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,600
opportunity for that. 
This is partially our, I think 

1199
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,440
our deal with Adidas. 
I don't think they treat us like

1200
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,680
a high level program. 
So we get kind of garbage stuff,

1201
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,120
but I've always been really 
unimpressed with our secondary 

1202
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,360
and you know, uniforms, the 
times we change, it's like the 

1203
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,920
little flowery stuff. 
It's like, dude, just go with 

1204
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,120
black uniforms, like try the 
Oval on a basketball. 

1205
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,320
Like let's really go nuts. 
Like try some really wild like 

1206
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:24,080
stuff like I, I'd be so cool 
with that and just see them, you

1207
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,200
know, try that. 
Maybe a different court design. 

1208
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,240
I know I'm getting way off the 
rails here, but like that I the 

1209
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:30,160
other. 
Two well, aren't they going to 

1210
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,920
have like sponsors, sponsorships
on the court this year for the 

1211
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,280
first year potentially? 
Are they? 

1212
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,560
I thought I read that. 
I think so they, they, they 

1213
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,320
solicited, we got an e-mail a 
couple of months ago they were 

1214
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,280
soliciting like business 
opportunities for I get a name 

1215
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,720
on the court. 
So I think they're at least open

1216
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,920
to that. 
I mean, I'd be, I love the, the 

1217
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,240
center court design is iconic, 
but like you could change that 

1218
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,560
up every so often, like have the
block I have Indiana, you know, 

1219
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,840
spray painted across or 
something like kind of like, you

1220
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,760
know, maybe you'd do candy 
stripes down the lane or 

1221
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,360
something. 
I, I think we need to be open to

1222
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,840
some of those changes. 
The other two things I would say

1223
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,640
this is a real minor one. 
It's a shout out to my buddy 

1224
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,680
Tom, who's been saying this for 
years. 

1225
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,960
The the under 8 flag timeout is 
really cool. 

1226
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,720
I think they they need to move 
it to the under 4 minute 

1227
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,320
timeout. 
It's just, it is, it's always 

1228
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,800
been something that the fans get
hyped up for and they're kind of

1229
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,200
like pumped. 
And then it's like, all right, 

1230
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,400
we still got 7 minutes a game. 
And then it's like kind of like 

1231
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:23,720
it feels like the energy dies 
down. 

1232
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,840
Like I've always I agree with my
buddy Tom, like I think that 

1233
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,600
should go at the under 4 
timeout. 

1234
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,680
And then it's like maybe you 
stand for the rest of the game 

1235
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,200
and that becomes a thing. 
We're like this pumps us up and 

1236
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,520
then we're just going to own it 
for the last four minutes. 

1237
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,800
And then I would also say, you 
know, they've done some 

1238
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,680
renovations. 
They can keep it for a while, 

1239
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,360
but I, I don't think the idea of
building a new stadium should be

1240
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,080
off the table either. 
I think assembly hall is a 

1241
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,320
unique environment. 
It's a really cool environment. 

1242
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,160
I think the, the sound is I, I 
like that it's different than 

1243
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:57,480
all the other places, but I 
don't think that we have to I, 

1244
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,600
I, I'm always open for a 
discussion of a new arena as 

1245
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,440
long as it's not something like 
funny. 

1246
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,280
Let's bash on Ohio State a 
little more An arena like that 

1247
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,280
seems very like the value city 
arena just seems boring and 

1248
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,920
antiseptic and kind of like 
doesn't have any character like 

1249
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,520
maybe build AI don't say a 
replica, but something unique 

1250
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,400
like assembly hall. 
Maybe have some more wooden 

1251
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,640
bleachers, but build it in a way
where it's easy to get in and 

1252
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,760
out of There's more concession. 
There's a little more, you know,

1253
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:29,000
luxury suite options. 
I I'm I'm not anti let's look 

1254
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,160
for a new arena as well. 
So I'm those are some of the 

1255
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,200
things that I would look to 
change as well, but I think 

1256
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,720
we're pretty much in line with 
the two main ones that we had. 

1257
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,120
Would you have a problem if it 
was something like the Field 

1258
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,720
house but a little bit smaller 
like game bridge? 

1259
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,240
No, I think Game Bridge is a 
great place to watch a game. 

1260
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,840
I love, I love going there. 
I will rephrase. 

1261
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,520
Game bridge is a great place to 
watch a game if you're in the 

1262
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,240
low level or the mid level. 
This is sounding like, you know,

1263
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:55,560
elitist. 
Yeah. 

1264
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,520
But it's not like the upper, 
it's not like the upper level. 

1265
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:58,840
And Assembly Hall is great. 
Right now. 

1266
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,240
No, no, you're no, you're right.
Game bridge is better. 

1267
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,440
The upper level and game bridge 
is can be rough but I think 

1268
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,240
upper levels in all stadiums 
suck. 

1269
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,920
And to your point, the upper 
level and assembly Hall is, is 

1270
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,520
really rough and the balcony is 
like a whole nother level of, of

1271
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:15,080
seats. 
And that's that's something that

1272
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,800
always bugs me when people that,
you know, Memorial Stadium is 

1273
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,280
different. 
There's a lot of good views and 

1274
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,280
even the high level in football 
is OK. 

1275
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,800
And like Memorial Stadium was a 
pretty, pretty intimate area or 

1276
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,880
intimate arena. 
People who don't like, who are 

1277
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,080
like always bitching about, man,
the students aren't showing up 

1278
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:34,920
in the balconies or we're not 
filling the balconies. 

1279
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,400
Assembly Hall, I'm always like, 
have you sat in the balcony? 

1280
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,400
Have you sat up there? 
Because I've been there a lot as

1281
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,000
a student and like, they suck. 
Like they are awful seats if 

1282
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,800
you're even slightly drunk, of 
which most students probably 

1283
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,240
are. 
Like I'm worried I'm just, you 

1284
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,280
know, I'm, I was worried I was 
going to just completely go over

1285
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,440
the edge and just fall down 
those stairs. 

1286
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,920
Like it is, it's a rough hang up
there. 

1287
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,920
And even this, you know, the, 
the seats up in the upper 

1288
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:03,400
corners, I used to, I remember 
going to games with Galen, we 

1289
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,600
had to bring notebooks because 
the small scoreboards, you 

1290
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,320
couldn't see the scoreboards in 
some of the corners of Assembly 

1291
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:09,920
Hall. 
They've now made the scoreboards

1292
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,000
bigger. 
They have some TV's and stuff up

1293
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,400
there. 
But those, there's those corner 

1294
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,280
seats where you feel like you're
in a different arena because you

1295
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,120
can't see anything on the other 
side. 

1296
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,200
And it's just, you feel like 
you're in this little cocoon of 

1297
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,640
stuff. 
So I, I mean, I, I would always 

1298
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,520
use that as my argument to 
people who are just and I, I 

1299
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,520
love assembly Hall. 
It's a totally one of a one of 

1300
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:36,160
one place, but it isn't the best
basketball viewing experience. 

1301
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,200
And you're always going to have 
trouble filling those 4 to 5000 

1302
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,840
really bad seats if unless the 
team is just like absolutely 

1303
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,680
elite. 
Yeah. 

1304
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,000
I think if you built a new 
stadium to, you probably maybe 

1305
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,920
want to go a little bit smaller,
right? 

1306
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,760
Yeah. 
In terms of the seats, I know 

1307
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,720
Louisville built this, the Yum 
Center, and I know they've had 

1308
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,360
some terrible teams the last 
couple years, but even some of 

1309
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,200
those years, I think they've 
it's like 21 or 22,000. 

1310
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,480
Even when they've been good, 
they have a hard time filling 

1311
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:04,720
that. 
I know simply Hall's not that 

1312
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,560
big, but maybe you build it to 
15 or 16 instead of what, 17 or 

1313
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:10,960
something? 
Make it a little bit smaller. 

1314
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,960
When you can re engineer where 
the students go too like that, 

1315
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,520
that's something. 
Exactly like have the students 

1316
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,200
all on one side, like down close
to like make it a little bit 

1317
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,240
more of a intimidating 
atmosphere. 

1318
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,520
I'm not saying I mean I've been 
to a lot of the big 10 venues 

1319
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,320
and assembly Hall when it's on 
fire is as intimidating as it 

1320
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,200
gets. 
It's like Mackie and Assembly to

1321
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,040
me are like, right, like in 
terms of the noise and how loud 

1322
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,920
I can get are one A1B, however 
you want to put them. 

1323
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:42,160
But when things aren't going so 
well and the students maybe 

1324
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,720
aren't as enthused there, there 
can be times too where it's just

1325
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,480
not as lively. 
And I think if you can do 

1326
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,560
something to kind of get people 
a little bit closer to the 

1327
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:54,280
action and get I'm not saying 
the students aren't well 

1328
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,320
represented now because they've 
got a ton of seats of it. 

1329
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,240
In terms of the seats allotted, 
it's as much as anybody in the 

1330
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,040
country, but like align them in 
such a way to where they're 

1331
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:03,840
making a little bit more of an 
impact. 

1332
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,760
Like, you can put them like down
around the court in a new place 

1333
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,160
and then you still give the 
people who are your season 

1334
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,760
ticket holders and have a lot of
skin in the game really good 

1335
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,800
seats, you know, in the lower 
level too, so. 

1336
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,760
Yeah, no, I I agree. 
All all, all hypotheticals that 

1337
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:19,440
we probably don't have to worry.
About yeah, none of it's going 

1338
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,760
to happen, but you see at 
Memorial Stadium they changed 

1339
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,400
the students section seating 
this year and they they put them

1340
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,760
kind of wrapped around the back 
end zone or the North End zone, 

1341
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:29,720
I guess. 
And it is really made a 

1342
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:30,880
difference. 
Like it's amazing. 

1343
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,320
Just the same number of students
just in a different, different 

1344
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,960
setup has really changed the 
vibe and the sounds of that 

1345
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,440
place. 
Yeah, it's just, it's too bad 

1346
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,320
the students have lost a lot of 
the good seats they used to have

1347
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,200
in Assembly Hall. 
But it's, it's, it's money. 

1348
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,200
It's, you know, and it's, it's, 
it's what they got to do. 

1349
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,200
It's just, it is the realities 
of the of the new world. 

1350
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,320
Absolutely. 
All right. 

1351
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:56,280
Any final thoughts on this 
coming season? 

1352
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:57,680
Season? 
I mean, we did most of it 

1353
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:59,040
already. 
This has been a fun 

1354
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,920
retrospective. 
But do you, are you since we 

1355
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,480
last talked or are you any more 
or less excited for this 

1356
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,440
upcoming season? 
I'm, I'm just as excited as I 

1357
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,480
was before. 
I'm, I'm just excited to see 

1358
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:19,640
Miles Rice in particular because
I think since we talked, maybe 

1359
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,480
maybe I'd already gone to, I 
used media day. 

1360
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:22,640
I don't remember exactly the 
day. 

1361
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,520
It was a couple weeks ago. 
So maybe I used media day had 

1362
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,600
already taken place, but not 
sure how much we talked about 

1363
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,240
this. 
But he was the guy at media day 

1364
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,400
that I was super impressed with.
Just his demeanor and the way he

1365
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:39,440
presented himself just in terms 
of taking on that leadership 

1366
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,880
mantle and the fact that they 
took him to Big 10 media day in 

1367
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,520
Chicago. 
And I believe he's one of the 

1368
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,560
captains for this year's team. 
That tells me a lot about it, 

1369
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,000
just how he's being viewed 
internally. 

1370
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,440
And he also plays the most 
important position on the team, 

1371
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,160
in my opinion. 
When was the last time I you had

1372
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,400
a great point guard? 
You look back, it's what I mean 

1373
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,040
Hudshafino there for that that 
year was kind of a combo guard, 

1374
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,960
but probably Yogi. 
Yogi, right. 

1375
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:08,080
So everyone is talking about 
Balo and Renew and Imbacco and 

1376
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,480
Balo got the, I think the 
preseason first team all Big 10 

1377
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,920
honor to me. 
I'm looking at Miles Rice and 

1378
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,400
saying if he can be the player 
that he was last year at 

1379
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,360
Washington State, which was an 
all PAC 12 first team performer,

1380
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,800
the PAC 12 freshman of the year,
and build on that. 

1381
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:26,000
I think it makes Indiana, you 
know, look at what the point 

1382
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,760
guard play was last year. 
And this is nothing against 

1383
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,720
Scape Cups, but he even admitted
to us that immediate day when we

1384
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,480
talked to him that he struggled 
last season and has a lot of 

1385
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,960
work to do to the kind of get 
himself to where he wants to be 

1386
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,160
as a player. 
And I think Indiana really 

1387
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,920
shored up its guard guard play. 
And couple that with what should

1388
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,880
be a really good front court, 
and I think there's no reason 

1389
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:48,880
that this team can't be 
competing near the top of the 

1390
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,280
Big 10. 
When you're seeing the the 

1391
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,480
projections come in, I mean, 
we're it's like us and Purdue 

1392
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,720
1212 kind of that's that seems 
to be the the consensus and the 

1393
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,120
Purdue thing it, it feels like 
that's more just on inertia and 

1394
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,360
you know, what they've done in 
the past, just kind of giving it

1395
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,080
on very good, confident, you 
know, very good reason, but kind

1396
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,160
of being like, all right, well, 
painter does this every year. 

1397
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:10,440
So we'll do it again with this 
group. 

1398
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,680
So, you know, it does feel like 
we have a real shot to be in 

1399
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,960
that top three. 
Yeah, that's why I picked Purdue

1400
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,600
in part was just because I've 
seen it before, right? 

1401
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:28,680
I mean, it's hard to, you know, 
it's hard to take away from what

1402
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,520
they've done now over a 
sustained period. 

1403
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,479
I remember those teams that he 
had like the the two years Randy

1404
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,200
was really good with cream and 
they just beat the doors off 

1405
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,240
Purdue. 
It was like a game in a Mackey. 

1406
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,080
I remember going to was like 97 
to 60 or something crazy like 

1407
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:47,279
that. 
And I think since then painters 

1408
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:50,479
figured out like what he wants 
to do from a program perspective

1409
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:52,240
and how he wants to build his 
teams. 

1410
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:58,479
And I think the ceiling some 
years may not be as high as some

1411
01:08:58,479 --> 01:08:59,720
of the other programs in the Big
10. 

1412
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,520
But the floor, I think you 
pretty know what you're going 

1413
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,720
to, pretty much know what you're
going to get, which is going to 

1414
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,680
be a solid competitive team. 
And there's just so many 

1415
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:08,960
question marks with a lot of 
these other Big 10 teams like 

1416
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,680
UCLA, they were really bad last 
year, but they they really 

1417
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:14,479
upgraded via the portal. 
Some people have picked them. 

1418
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,200
Oregon's another team that I 
think a lot of people are high 

1419
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,080
on coming over from the PAC 12. 
But we haven't seen these teams 

1420
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,479
as as up close and not as 
familiar. 

1421
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,880
A lot of the people from the 
media picking these teams. 

1422
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,600
Same thing with Illinois. 
I think that's kind of more of a

1423
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,080
pick for Brad Underwood too, 
because look at I think they 

1424
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,960
have two or three scholarship 
players left from last year's 

1425
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,120
Elite Eight team. 
And So what are you basing a 

1426
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,200
projection on for them? 
You're basing it on the fact 

1427
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,279
that you you trust Brad 
Underwood to put together 

1428
01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:43,319
A-Team. 
It's kind of the same thing with

1429
01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:45,080
Painter. 
Same thing with Izzo. 

1430
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,880
How long have we given him the 
benefit of the doubt? 

1431
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,319
And he's underperformed now for 
several seasons in a row. 

1432
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,080
I think this year's Big 10 race 
is going to be fascinating from 

1433
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,560
the perspective of there's a lot
of really solid teams. 

1434
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,880
I don't know that there's a 
dominant 1, and we had that last

1435
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:02,480
year with Purdue. 
I think it was a foregone 

1436
01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:04,360
conclusion that Purdue was gonna
win the league. 

1437
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:05,640
This year. 
I picked Purdue to win the 

1438
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:07,960
league, but if you asked me if 
I'd pick Purdue with the field, 

1439
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,080
I'm taking the field, so. 
Yeah, maybe that makes. 

1440
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,680
Sense more, I'm out with it. 
Well, Alex, we've gone over an 

1441
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,000
hour. 
We we gave you the time, dude, 

1442
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,680
it's been great talking to you. 
This is always fun. 

1443
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,200
I like kind of doing, doing 
something different than just a 

1444
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,200
normal preview. 
But let's try and get together 

1445
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,240
before maybe the end of the 
season and we do a little 

1446
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:26,600
priests, you know, postseason 
preview. 

1447
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,640
Hopefully we're, we're looking 
at a protected NC double AC and 

1448
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:31,760
we have some fun discussions 
with that that. 

1449
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:34,640
Would be nice, thanks for having
me as always. 

1450
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,320
Like I said, you all do a great 
job with Crimson Cast. 

1451
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,240
I look forward to listening to 
whatever the next episode is 

1452
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:42,960
over there. 
We got some football coming up, 

1453
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,320
but no, you guys, I I look at 
inside the halls, the gold 

1454
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:46,920
standard. 
So it's a it's awesome having 

1455
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,240
you on. 
I appreciate it and thank 

1456
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,040
everybody for listening. 
And until next time, this is 

1457
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,640
Scott for Crimson cast signing 
off.