1 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,920 None. You're listening to the Back 2 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,400 Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. 3 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,360 Welcome back to Crimson Cast. Dale Clavio, Scott Caulfield 4 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,680 joining you here. It is the evening of Sunday, 5 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,120 March 16th and Scott, the season's over. 6 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,760 IU does not make the NCAA tournament. 7 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:19,680 IU announces to media companies are not going to entertain bids 8 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:25,120 to the NIT or the The Crown or whatever other tournaments there 9 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:26,760 are. And that's it. 10 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:28,840 We can we. Good night, everybody. 11 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,880 We're done. Except we're not actually. 12 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,680 But Scott, you were not along for the ride this morning. 13 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,360 But it's great to see you now. How are you doing? 14 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,520 And it's not. It's unusual to see you on a 15 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,400 Sunday night. This is a nice change of pace. 16 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,280 That's good. Good to be here, John. 17 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:43,960 I like March. Sadness again for IU. 18 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:45,600 That's true. One of our commenters, Two 19 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,680 things. First off, I was texting this 20 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,800 out. We made the tournament that 21 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,520 matters this year. We were in the college. 22 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Football play offs like there was a tournament, we were in it, 23 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,920 we made it. So I thought you were going to 24 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,120 say we were in Atlantis and that's the only one that 25 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,080 matters. So we. 26 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,920 Were in that and then, you know, I I'm really looking forward to 27 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,000 can we please have some talk about how some of these teams 28 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,280 don't deserve it in a couple days, like when when UNC or 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,800 Xavier loses, like we haven't talked about them not deserving 30 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,920 it. But no, it's, you know, or maybe 31 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:18,200 the tournament should be 70 teams. 32 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,880 We're going to tackle a lot on the tournament stuff as well as 33 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,040 some of the coaching service stuff. 34 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,080 I will say I feel like every year the Big 10 gets 10 or more 35 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,360 teams in the field. There's just a barrage of 36 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,560 there's just too many teams coming out of the Big 10. 37 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,440 The big chance is not that good. The SEC got 14 teams in the 38 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,440 tournament this year. I didn't hear a peep about how 39 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,760 the SEC imagine a Big 10 team that was 6 and 12 in the regular 40 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,720 season, let alone two of them getting into the NCAA 41 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,280 tournament. I I mean, ESPN would need like 42 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,320 years of therapy or at least their analysts would recover 43 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:58,640 from that. Are we sure that? 44 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,720 Alabama football didn't make it in, just like ESP NS. 45 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,120 Like you know, we're so pissed they didn't make it. 46 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,960 The CFP. We're just putting the football 47 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,520 team in as a basketball team. I I God. 48 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:15,080 Anyway, so we're, if you watch the live stream this morning, 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,800 which I know many of you did you, you know that as, as the, 50 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,680 as the, the Steinman clan noted Galen the Oracle. 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,080 I, I did call the UNC thing. I, I chickened out. 52 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,640 I knew, like, thanks to you, I saw them like, oh, we're out. 53 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,520 I chickened out at the end on my last bracket and didn't put UNC 54 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,120 in and, and, and yet still was, was fairly in line with 55 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,200 everything else because of how out of left field the whole 56 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,880 thing was. We're going to talk about that. 57 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,720 I'm not here to do a victory lap, but I want to reiterate 58 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,720 what I said because I think people are finally starting to 59 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,880 see what I was talking about at the beginning of things. 60 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,040 But anyway, before we get on that real quick, just a reminder 61 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,600 we're brought to you by Home Field Apparel and Home Field 62 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Apparel sponsoring the we. We've got teams in the 63 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,440 tournament that Home Field Apparel has apparel for, like 64 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,280 the Montana Grizzlies, who are going to be my new team that I 65 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,400 root for for at least the next 5 days. 66 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,520 Yeah, but you can go to Home Field Apparel, use the code home 67 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,280 23, get 15% off your first order. 68 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,560 They're going to have a ton of tournament related stuff. 69 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,279 They just had something else that popped I saw in my text 70 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,000 messages as I was getting over here into the studio. 71 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,360 There's going to be a bunch of things that I'm really 72 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,880 fascinated to see, like how it racks up over the course of of 73 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,760 the the two or three weeks of the tournament. 74 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:35,840 Home Field's always got their design team working up on 75 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:38,600 awesome things. And so anyway, go to 76 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,760 homefieldapparel.com, follow them on the socials, get on 77 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,360 their newsletter. You'll hear all about what 78 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,360 they've got to offer. Also be sure to subscribe to 79 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,160 YouTube big back home network on the YouTube channel to search 80 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,720 for back home network. You'll find it and we'd love to 81 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,440 have you over 7300 people now subscribe to the YouTube 82 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,280 channel. It's it's a great place to be. 83 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,360 All right, Scott, let's dive into the brackets first. 84 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:04,960 Indiana does not make it. It was interesting because I 85 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,560 obviously I was up late doing this. 86 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,200 I think I actually did a bracket last night at 1:45 in the 87 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,400 morning. And at that point, I still 88 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,040 didn't feel like IU was getting in. 89 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,480 And my rationale for it was simply like Indiana didn't stick 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,840 out in any single metric enough to really win an argument. 91 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,880 And I think ultimately that really kills a lot of teams that 92 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:34,000 are in this mix where if you if you can't make a a case. 93 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,200 And, and this is where I think to some degree it's why a lot of 94 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,400 the bracketology committee missed, at least on Indiana, is 95 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,000 that it was an easy team to kind of say, well, they're, you know, 96 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,040 they're OK in wins and they're OK in predictives and they're OK 97 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,520 in their quad one and quad twos. That the flip side of it is they 98 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,560 were never great in any one of those areas. 99 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,560 And there were teams like, as much as I dislike North Carolina 100 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,680 getting in, they had a high net and, you know, they they won 22 101 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,760 games. And so there was at least 102 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,560 something you could argue for there. 103 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,320 And a lot of times what ends up happening within this process is 104 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,880 you get the, the less pointy ends you have, the more you end 105 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,480 up falling back into the midst of things. 106 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,640 And so that's where Indiana landed to some degree. 107 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,320 I still don't think they got treated particularly well, 108 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,440 Scott. But what was your reaction as 109 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,600 you saw the news this morning that most people thought Indiana 110 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,520 was going to be in? And then you get to the 111 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,920 tournament selection show and you find out that Indiana isn't 112 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,040 going to be in. I mean, I'll get to it later 113 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,000 because I'm, I'm really pissed just about the overall, just the 114 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,640 overall missing the tournament again, that's a different, 115 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,080 different beast going into this morning. 116 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,160 I, I, I like you, felt like we weren't in for, for the exact 117 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,920 reasons that you're saying is that, you know, you, you need to 118 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,120 have something that makes you stand out as a real positive. 119 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,840 And we just all the teams and I listen to a lot of everything 120 00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:58,840 you did, which was all very, very good. 121 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,320 We never stood out against anybody. 122 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,080 And all of the arguments, you know, US versus Xavier, US 123 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,680 versus North Carolina, you, you know, they had things that were 124 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:08,920 worse than us. They also had things that were 125 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,600 better than us. There wasn't one thing that we 126 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,800 did better than everybody else. We we're kind of mid all across 127 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,200 the board. And I also think too, that, you 128 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,640 know, just beating two teams in the in the tournament is not a 129 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,720 good look. And then something else that you 130 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,640 mentioned before is that I don't know if the Big 10 necessarily, 131 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,720 obviously the tournament doesn't help a lot of teams because 132 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,520 Michigan won. It was still a five seed. 133 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,000 But you know, what what did hurt is that it just put Indiana in 134 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,040 cement and the cement was dry on Thursday morning at 2:00 or 2:00 135 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,160 PM. And everyone else had wet cement 136 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,240 that was still kind of movable and things could be done. 137 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,480 And it, it felt like in, you know, Indiana sealed his fate. 138 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,280 And so it when when we finally got to the bracket, I didn't 139 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,720 think we were going to be there was a chance once I saw North 140 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,480 Carolina, based on everything you said, I was like, all right, 141 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,240 well, that's probably out. Like we're probably not going to 142 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,440 make it. And in the end, you know, yeah, 143 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,840 we didn't get treated that it felt a little bit unfair. 144 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,840 You know, 10 and 10 in the conference is OK. 145 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,720 But it's like we've been here. And part of it is like, hey, 146 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,360 man, don't have a six game losing streak. 147 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,080 Don't lose to Iowa by 15. Don't get slaughtered in the 148 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:14,800 games against Louisville and Gonzaga. 149 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,280 Like part this is definitely all self-inflicted wounds. 150 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,160 Don't schedule the way you did. You know, in the end, we really 151 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,400 didn't have. It's not like there's a massive 152 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,040 leg to stand on as it is for all teams in the bubble. 153 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:29,920 Yeah. No, I mean, you, you hit on a 154 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,080 lot of points I was going to hit on, which I'm glad you did. 155 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:39,640 I mean, I am far more irritated at the procedural elements which 156 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,360 led to Indiana not getting in than I am about Indiana not 157 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,400 being put in the tournament on merit. 158 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,040 Because as you very aptly put, Indiana really didn't do nearly 159 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,320 enough on their own to get themselves into the NCAA 160 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,560 Tournament. And you, when you think about 161 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:59,400 the arguments that we had to make for Indiana, it was, well, 162 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,240 gosh, they beat Michigan State on the road and they beat 163 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,720 Purdue. And that was really it. 164 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,880 Like, that was, that was like the, the amount and the number 165 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,000 of times we heard. And it was an accurate take 166 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,800 that, well, Indiana wouldn't even be in the conversation if 167 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,560 they hadn't won that game at Michigan State. 168 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,240 And the rest of their resume was just incredibly squishy. 169 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,440 And I'm glad you brought up the scheduling because I can 170 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,720 distinctly remember us doing a podcast and we weren't the only 171 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,200 ones. There were other people in the 172 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,120 IU sphere when the schedule got revealed in early September or 173 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,440 late August or whenever it was saying, this is really dangerous 174 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,880 for Mike Woodson and Indiana to schedule the way that they did 175 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,840 'cause I mean, go back and, and think about that. 176 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,480 We looked at the schedule and we said, well, South Carolina, not 177 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,840 a very good team. That's that's your big non con 178 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,520 coming in and then you're going to Atlantis and you have to win 179 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,840 basically Atlantis or at least get to the championship game. 180 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,200 And you have to play good teams there and you have to play them 181 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,200 close. Because if you don't, you've 182 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,880 left yourself not just 0 margin for error, but you put yourself 183 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,520 in a position where you can't make any ground up if you 184 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,160 continue to play at like a 500 or worse level. 185 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,680 And that is exactly what happened. 186 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,160 And look I this is where. And oddly, it even broke well 187 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,720 for them that they lost and still got to play Gonzaga like 188 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,920 they lost, which should have given them a worse, you know, a 189 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,960 worse bracket, but they ended up getting a better team to play 190 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,960 and it still couldn't get. Done. 191 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,000 Yeah, exactly. And and then it wasn't just that 192 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,120 they lost to Louisville. It wasn't just that they lost to 193 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,800 Gonzaga, but they got boat raced by both of those teams. 194 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,000 And it just again, like it happened last year, it set 195 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,960 Indiana down a pathway that they couldn't recover from. 196 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,400 Even if they had been playing fairly well, I think they would 197 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,280 have have really struggled down the stretch with this. 198 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,840 And then, you know, once you've done that, you lose all those 199 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,320 close games. And so ultimately, what's 200 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,280 frustrating is that another year where Indiana didn't learn their 201 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,640 lesson. And you know, I, I mentioned on 202 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,640 Twitter, you know, Indiana not making the tournament was, was 203 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,240 surprising. And really you can point to two 204 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,520 things. I think 2 pieces of criteria 205 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,560 that essentially were the nail in the coffins for Indiana. 206 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,480 One of them and, and, and this really sticks out, I think when 207 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,920 you look at all but one of the teams that got in the tournament 208 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,440 that and Indiana didn't. And that was Indiana's non 209 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,160 conference strength of schedule rating. 210 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,360 Indiana's non conference strength of schedule ended up 211 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,480 being 158th when you compare it to the teams that they were 212 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,240 competing against. San Diego State's non confidence 213 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,520 strength of schedule was 7th in the country. 214 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:45,920 North Carolina's was fifth in the country. 215 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,880 You know, these were teams that that actively went out and 216 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,560 scheduled good games against good teams. 217 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,120 You know, it doesn't explain everything. 218 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,840 And this is part of the frustration of the committee, 219 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,520 which is they're so inconsistent with their criteria. 220 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,880 Like Xavier got in and they only added a strength of schedule of 221 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,200 144th. What's what I really keep coming 222 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,080 back to though, is that whatever happens with other teams, IU 223 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:15,280 can't afford to play middle of the road non conference 224 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,800 schedules because they don't play well enough in their other 225 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,680 games in terms of margin of victory to compensate. 226 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,200 And so you can either play a bad non conference schedule, blow 227 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,960 everybody out, get your predictives way up. 228 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,320 That's the Big 12 model. Or you can play a lot of good 229 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,080 teams. And then when you're in this 230 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,560 position, somebody can argue and say, well, look, I you really 231 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:36,400 did try to challenge themselves. You couldn't say that because 232 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,480 Indiana didn't try to challenge themselves. 233 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,400 And we saw, we talked about it before the season. 234 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,480 We were not the only ones. It's just frustrating that that 235 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,120 ended up being one of the reasons why Indiana didn't get 236 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,520 into the field. And it's funny because last year 237 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,440 you had a we had a similar talk before the year and middle of 238 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,800 the year that they they challenge themselves a little 239 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,800 bit more playing Auburn and Kansas. 240 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,200 And then, you know, Connecticut, Louisville, where you knew who 241 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,440 you're playing in those games. But we looked at it as like 242 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,040 those are three of those four games are really tough. 243 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,240 If you can't get a win, you're going to walk out of last year's 244 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,640 non conference with really having nothing done. 245 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,000 And that's exactly what happened. 246 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,840 And you're right, it almost became worse this year. 247 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,160 So yeah, in the end, you know, I, I wasn't, it's, it's, it's 248 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,640 all self-inflicted. I mean, the only thing you can 249 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,920 say is maybe, you know, maybe Scott Dolson also needs to spend 250 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,040 some time seeing how we can get himself on the, the selection 251 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,040 committee because that, that might help out a little bit. 252 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,520 It is, you know, once you mention that and it's like, all 253 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,400 right, well, the North Carolina's getting in like this 254 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:36,840 just. You know what's going to happen 255 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,680 and I know they're going to say, oh, I I excused myself. 256 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:41,720 And it's like you're you're still hanging out with these 257 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,040 people and they still know where you're the AD of. 258 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,600 Well, yeah. And look, ultimately, and you 259 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,440 know, if you look at, you know, one of the arguments that got 260 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,880 made, it wasn't just strength to schedule, it was also net. 261 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,400 And I talked about this this morning, Indiana finished with a 262 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,360 net of 54. The teams that got in above them 263 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:59,920 for the most part had better Nets. 264 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,520 San Diego State was the one exception, but San Diego State 265 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,680 had the 5th toughest non conference strength to schedule. 266 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:08,920 That's why they got in. Xavier had a net of 45 despite 267 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,360 having what I think was a demonstrably worst record 268 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,320 against teams that were competitive for the field. 269 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,200 North Carolina had a net of 34, I think, or 35. 270 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,080 Again, 20 spots better roughly than Indiana, even though 271 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,440 Indiana had better individual wins. 272 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,960 North Carolina had that to point to. 273 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,920 And you know, someone just pointed out, Sam pointed out in 274 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,080 the comments, it's frustrating. They at least never learn the 275 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,880 importance of being metric merchants, not at least blow out 276 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,720 the bad teams or be competitive against the good teams. 277 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,080 Indiana tended to struggle with both of those. 278 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,040 And so, look, it's water under the bridge to some degree. 279 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,680 I do want to say one thing the, you know, a lot of I saw 280 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,280 something, I think it was Sports Illustrated, whatever Sports 281 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,560 Illustrated is these days, tweeted that the biggest 282 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,600 surprises of this tournament were Indiana getting in or 283 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,800 Indiana not getting in and North Carolina getting in. 284 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,360 That is not the biggest surprise. 285 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,160 The biggest surprise is that West Virginia, who was on 286 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,480 literally every bracket, didn't get in. 287 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,960 And I am baffled by this, Scott. I mean, West Virginia, they 288 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,000 were, you know, they had their, their net was 51. 289 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,760 And that's probably what dinged them a little bit. 290 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,360 But they were 19 and 13. They beat Gonzaga in Atlantis. 291 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,600 They beat Arizona and Atlantis. Yes, they lost Tucker Devries, 292 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,000 but after they lost Tucker Devries, he hasn't played since 293 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,480 the beginning of December. They won at Kansas, they won at 294 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,360 home versus Iowa State, they beat Cincinnati. 295 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,800 They beat Utah. Like four of their six quad one 296 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,440 wins happened after Tucker Devries was injured and out for 297 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,720 the rest of the season. When they were asked, when the 298 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,360 committee was asked after the the draw today, why didn't they 299 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,680 get in, they actually cited Tucker Devries being injured. 300 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,200 And it's like Tucker Devries has been injured the whole season 301 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,800 basically. How could you use that as a 302 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,160 criteria? So I think the larger irritation 303 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:04,160 there is just how inconsistent they've been with applying the 304 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,920 different criteria, how they approach it, how, how subjective 305 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,080 it seems to be applied. And you know, this is where we 306 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,000 had a, a really good comment earlier on from, from Richard, 307 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,600 how can bracketologist analyze gut feelings? 308 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,080 Everything they said that mattered seems to just not. 309 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,720 And this was the point I was trying to make this morning. 310 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,480 It's like if you go by the the rules that the committee 311 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,720 themselves lays out and their procedures, you come up with the 312 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,520 bracket that all 111 bracketologist came up with, and 313 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,880 then you get in the room and they have to bring the vice 314 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,280 chair. I've been watching the bracket 315 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,960 show for 30 years, 35 years, however long it's been. 316 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,880 I have never seen them send the chair and the vice chair in 317 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,200 because they know that the chair by himself can't account for the 318 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,000 fact that a team that didn't get it shouldn't have gotten in. 319 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,320 But he happens to be the athletic director of got in. 320 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:59,240 I just found that a fascinating and and and transparent tell all 321 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,240 things considered with things. So anyway, I just it's again 322 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,319 the. Question I have for you as the 323 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:09,000 bracket expert is so Texas Xavier North Carolina got in 324 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,960 West Virginia, Indiana, Boise State did not looking at the 325 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,480 last bracket matrix, Texas was in 50 brackets. 326 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:21,720 Xavier was in 30 N Carolina was only in 27 W Virginia was 111. 327 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,520 Indiana was in 90 Boise State was in 36. 328 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,000 So it's a it's a weird mix of think you'd normally this is you 329 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,160 know, bracket matrix is 111 of the top bracketologist. 330 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,160 It Western Union was all of them. 331 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,880 I'll ask you the question this way. 332 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,160 Every year there's different metrics that people, you know 333 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,600 that the committee is looking at that kind of change based on the 334 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,280 three who made it in and the three who didn't. 335 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,560 Obviously most bracketologist were looking at something 336 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,560 different than the committee. Based on you analyzing these 337 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,200 teams, what what did the committee value that those three 338 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,560 teams had outside of somebody in the committee room that worked 339 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,480 for one of the universities that that every other bracketologist 340 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,840 missed? Cause you know, North. 341 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,880 Carolina only being in 27 and West Virginia being in 111, 342 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,320 that's a gap I'm not sure I've ever seen. 343 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,600 Yeah, I mean, I, I think the big thing was people looked at North 344 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,080 Carolina's resume and said they don't have any wins and 345 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,720 therefore they're not gonna get in cause the committee 346 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,360 historically values wins. Well, they didn't in their case 347 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,160 and they really didn't in Xavier's case. 348 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,800 Now Texas, this is again, it's a problem where you've got all 349 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,800 these teams with incomplete resumes and, and, or not 350 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,920 incomplete, but like the, the resumes that have big holes in 351 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,880 them. And Texas had a lot of good 352 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,680 wins. And that's the, the thing I 353 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,200 don't want people to take away from Texas. 354 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,640 Like they really do have a lot of good wins. 355 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,240 They just had 15 losses, which is an insane amount of losses. 356 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,440 I think it's the most losses that have ever been put in the 357 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,000 field as an at large. But this is where the age-old 358 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,840 issue and actually Jim Miller with a great comment here to 359 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,920 feed in, but the SEC being overrated. 360 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,440 There are 500 conference overall. 361 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,320 Obviously there are 500 overall conference because they all play 362 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,640 each other and but there is a danger with all of this where 363 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,600 the metrics start to eat themselves and you end up with 364 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:15,120 overrated and underrated teams based upon the other members 365 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,120 within the conference. And the Missouri Valley used to 366 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,200 do this all the time when the Missouri Valley was an actual 367 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,720 good conference as opposed to whatever it is now where they 368 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000 would get their RPI so high that everybody would be in great 369 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,840 shape for the RPI. And it's like, you know, you get 370 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,000 to the end of the year to be like, why do we have 4 Missouri 371 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,800 Valley teams in the field when they're none of them are that 372 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,040 good? That's essentially how it works. 373 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,880 And so ultimately, I think there's not one through line 374 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,400 that all of these teams could be looked at. 375 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,480 Again, I'm not, I'm not shocked they put North Carolina in 376 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,960 because of the, the commissioner being in there. 377 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,960 And that's the piece that you can't account for unless you're 378 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,280 cynical. And fortunately I'm cynical. 379 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,600 So I've I've been able to get over that hump. 380 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,080 But that's ultimately where we end up with things. 381 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,360 And I this is where this is a frustrating science and it's, 382 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,040 it's not straightforward, despite the fact that there's an 383 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,240 entire list of things. That says, here's how you're 384 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,520 supposed to do it. And then the committee, we hear 385 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,280 this all the time, whether it's this, whether it's the eye test, 386 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,400 whether, you know, there's all these things where it's like, 387 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,000 well, we have these rules, except in this case or that case 388 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,480 it's anyway. So, so Indiana is, is done. 389 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,400 There was a, there was a note, I think it was, I think it was 390 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:36,040 from pigs.com that Indiana's not going to participate in the NIT. 391 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,920 They're not going to participate in the crown. 392 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,760 So that's basically it season's over. 393 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,960 I mean, we had a we had a question earlier on in the in 394 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,440 the chat about, you know what, you know, tell us that IU's not 395 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,560 participating in these. It sounds like they're not and 396 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,000 so. Side note, you and I have talked 397 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,760 about this a little bit like I, I just, I find it hard to 398 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,720 believe I, I find it hard to believe that maybe this year 399 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,840 they can, but at some point, like Fox made the crown, it's, 400 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,520 it's not like it's the NIT or it has no history. 401 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,040 They're doing it for the first time this year. 402 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,160 Fox pays for the Big 10 network. Fox writes Indiana, you know, 403 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,000 theoretically through, through Big 10 network writes every 404 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,400 school check for 50 or $60 million a year. 405 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,360 Fox didn't do the crown tournament to have, you know, 406 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,720 Duquesne in there. They, they want the top teams 407 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,160 from the top conferences that aren't making the tournament. 408 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,080 I, I understand that, you know, IU doesn't want to do it and 409 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,520 there's transfers and other things to worry about. 410 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,120 But I, I just wonder how this is going to be sustainable over 411 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:33,600 years. It feels like one of these years 412 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,720 Fox is going to say, hey, guess what? 413 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,320 Do you like that check? We write you at the beginning of 414 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,680 the year for $70 million. Well, guess what? 415 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,440 I'm going to pull a little bit of a leeway here and you're 416 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,720 going to be doing the crown. And I don't care who plays. 417 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,080 I don't care who coaches. I want somebody out there with 418 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,800 the name Indiana Jersey. And if you want that check in 419 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,240 August, let me know. I just, I find it odd to think 420 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,760 that you can just basically, you know, thumb your nose at the at 421 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:57,960 that fox. Who's? 422 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,880 Creating this tournament for for, you know, for inventory. 423 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,720 Well, you're right, except you know, it's I think as we talked 424 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:11,480 about earlier on IU, all these teams, they may have contractual 425 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,600 obligations. The players don't. 426 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,960 And ultimately, if you don't have players, it is far more 427 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,000 damaging to people or to like the schools and the brands and 428 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,400 everything like that to have people running around in 429 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,320 uniforms that don't belong there. 430 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,240 And it's not just IU already. And, and I think I've probably 431 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,760 missed some of these, but Iowa has turned down both the NIT and 432 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,400 the crown. Rutgers has turned down both the 433 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,520 NIT and the crown. Like none of them are are going 434 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,320 to be participating in this. And you know, I'm looking at the 435 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:48,680 NIT field right now and it is, it is barren. 436 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,680 You know, I'm looking for power conference teams in the NIT. 437 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,800 We got Georgia Tech, we got Oklahoma State, we got Stanford. 438 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,440 We've got still looking, still looking. 439 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,200 I think that's it. I think those are our only three 440 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,560 power conference teams. It's Georgia Tech, Oklahoma 441 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,280 State and Stanford. You got like you got Dayton in 442 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,200 there. You've got George Mason, Wichita 443 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,760 State, UC Irvine, UAB, so. Fox didn't do this to Yeah, but. 444 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,200 Fox also created it, I think without realizing that a, the 445 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,200 NCAA was gonna shorten the portal window and move it up and 446 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,080 put teams in a position where they couldn't do anything. 447 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,760 You know, I mean, it's, it's like, what do you can't go 448 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,280 participate in a tournament when you don't have players and you 449 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,600 don't know if you're gonna have players. 450 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,520 Like half these teams don't know what their rosters are going to 451 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,160 look like. And in the case of Iowa and 452 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,160 Indiana, they don't have coaches at this point. 453 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,200 So, you know, it's I whatever Fox's thoughts were, they're 454 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,720 gonna have to go back to the drawing board on this because 455 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,840 even if you were gonna run it, the time to run it would be like 456 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,880 tomorrow, Like, hey, we're gonna do a 5 day tournament that 457 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,520 starts now. And the championship game is 458 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,720 like the morning of, of the, the Saturday of the tournament. 459 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,720 The crown doesn't start till March 31st. 460 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:09,000 Like who the hell thought that was a good idea? 461 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,720 Yeah. So anyway, well, it is what it 462 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,040 is at this point. So IU season comes to a close, 463 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,240 Scott. I mean, we we obviously talked a 464 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,680 lot about the end of the regular season and then we were 465 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,400 optimistic about the Big 10 tournament game that went really 466 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,320 well. So now that we've seen that game 467 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,640 and now that the season's over, I guess, well, we talked about 468 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,040 some of the scheduling issues earlier on, but any other 469 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,200 general thoughts as you look at this past season and wave 470 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,360 goodbye? I'm I'm pissed, you know, I so I 471 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,280 wasn't pissed. Go I I had, I had gotten kind of 472 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,240 just relegated to annoyance or just kind of relegated to 473 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,840 ambivalence with this team, I should say. 474 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,160 And you know, but then we don't make the tournament. 475 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,240 I just started like here, here's my rant and I might cuss and I 476 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,080 apologize, but it's like 10 years. 477 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,440 I started looking at like, we've made the tournament three times 478 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,080 in 10 years and you can honestly say if Trace Jackson Davis 479 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,760 doesn't come here or come back, it might be one time in 10 480 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,680 years. But let's go with the facts 10. 481 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,880 Three times in 10 years, including this year in the Big 482 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,560 10. Here are the teams that have 483 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,960 made it less than us in 10 years Rutgers, Nebraska, Penn State 484 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,480 and Washington. That's it, Rutgers. 485 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,520 In the last 10 years, Rutgers, I got the whole numbers. 486 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,000 Rutgers made it twice. Nebraska, Penn State, and 487 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,360 Washington have all made it one time. 488 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,800 Now let's go up from there. Minnesota, Northwestern have 489 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,840 also made it 3. Ohio State's made it 4 out of 490 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,480 10. Iowa's made it 5. 491 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,280 USCUSC has made it 5. Illinois 5, Oregon 6, UCLA 6, 492 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,560 Maryland 6. Wisconsin 7. 493 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,040 Michigan 7, Purdue 9, MSU 10. We're in the dregs. 494 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,640 I mean, it just, I'm pissed. It's like this is, this is 495 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,880 unacceptable. And it goes to your point, you 496 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,240 have to nail this effing higher. You just have to. 497 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,360 And then I also look back to the last time that we made the NCAA 498 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:07,520 tournament three years in a row. Not a stretch for a team that 499 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,720 charges a ton of money that, you know, we're, we're top of the 500 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,120 top of the the food chart. The last time we did that was 501 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,520 2003. All right, I'm turning 47 this 502 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,040 year. I was 25 when that happened. 503 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,200 That was 22 years. And that's like when Marty McFly 504 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,240 went back to the future and then, you know, in in the first 505 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,320 one, that's what he went to was the last effing time we made the 506 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,600 tournament three years in a row. Like it's absurd how bad this 507 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,080 has gotten when you look at it and just you look at the group 508 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,720 that we're in, Northwestern and Minnesota. 509 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,920 Well, and, and as Patrick attically or happily pointed 510 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,200 out, Penn State of the list that you put forward is the only 511 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:50,160 legacy Big 10 school on that list and legacy also like very 512 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,880 that's like 92, like not even a big that's a like a big 11 513 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,120 school. I, I you now I wish you hadn't 514 00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:59,040 brought them back to the future thing up, because now I'm gonna 515 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,560 think about you as George McFly for the rest of the the night, 516 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,640 because you know, like Scott being played by Crispin Glover 517 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,400 in the movie. I I think we could all get 518 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,480 behind that personal. I won't come back for the second 519 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:11,960 one. I'll have a contract dispute. 520 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,960 I'm I'm out. I'm out. 521 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:17,200 We're gonna steal your IP and just hire another actor to play 522 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,120 you. Who would we get to play Scott 523 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,320 if we couldn't agree to contracts with them? 524 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,040 That's fascinating. But no, you're, it's a, it's a 525 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,520 baffling statistic. And it's like, you know, I've, I 526 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:34,280 heard a lot of people arguing that Mike Woodson perhaps had 527 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,400 been let go a little early, not IU people, but people outside 528 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,080 because they assumed IU was going to get it. 529 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,760 And they're like, well, look, you've made the tournament three 530 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,960 times in four years. Well, they didn't, they didn't 531 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,200 do it, you know, I mean, and, and even if they had, and this 532 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,640 is the other thing, Scott, three times in 10 years. 533 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:56,520 And you know, you, you think about it like the the 2021 or 534 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,600 the 22 tournament, sorry, Woodson's first year, they were 535 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,160 in the playing game. They were one of the last four 536 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,240 teams. So you still get credit for 537 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,640 that. But you're not talking about, 538 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,680 you know, high levels of success during these time periods. 539 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,800 And no, it is, it is definitely we've talked a lot about the 540 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,280 ebbs and flows of IU basketball historically. 541 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,360 And as as rough as the the the aughts were, this is really a 542 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:27,040 stretch of time that's equivalent to like 1958 until or 543 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,320 1959 until 1971 when IU made the tournament. 544 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,960 Once in that entire stretch, they kind of hit their lowest 545 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,960 step. Now they hired Bob Knight the 546 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,640 following year and then went on a huge run and, you know, 547 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,720 essentially dominated the big 10 for four years. 548 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,520 Robert got me right. I'm actually wrong. 549 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,760 It was O6 to O8I. I screwed that up. 550 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,960 I was wrong. So it's it's still a while, but 551 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,280 yeah, not as bad. Thank you. 552 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,040 So I'm with you. It's really frustrating because 553 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,360 it's IU should be better than that. 554 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,440 Like even in even in the worst of times, you would think IU 555 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,160 would be better than that. And I OK, I like this Zimmerman, 556 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,760 Bruce Willis and his prime is current. 557 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,440 Scott, let let me we're going to workshop that a little bit more, 558 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,560 but better. Than the reverse. 559 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,800 I know that. But look, ultimately I'm with 560 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,280 you. I guess the frustrating thing to 561 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:26,520 me about this season was IU fans essentially got bludgeoned into 562 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:33,080 accepting the continuation of the Woodson era with the 563 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,600 argument that Oh well, Woodson just needs more help 564 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,320 financially. They need to spend more money on 565 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,080 players. You know, the the line was and 566 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,960 got repeated by many people. Well, gosh, you know, they the 567 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,960 Xavier Johnson was injured and my favorite, well, they didn't 568 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,960 expect Jalen Hood Shifino to get drafted in the first round. 569 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,760 He was supposed to be a two year player and that was the argument 570 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,960 as to why last year was a fluke and that IU fans were being 571 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,760 unreasonable. And everybody was supposed to 572 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,920 chill, as we were told by, you know, by by certain players in 573 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,920 the the senior night last year or senior day. 574 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,640 And then IU goes out, they sign a bunch of players in the 575 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,640 portal. Some questions were asked like 576 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,560 are these guys going to gel? Is this going to work? 577 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,400 But it was it was all supposed to be fine and everything was 578 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,800 going to set up well and media bought into it. 579 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,000 Indiana was supposed to be a top 2 program. 580 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,200 Fans were told that they were part of the problem, that they 581 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,560 were not contributing positively to things. 582 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,720 They were, as Patrick just said, hurting the program. 583 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,840 And then Indiana came out and essentially did a redo on the 584 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,880 previous season. A slightly better redo instead 585 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,120 of being entirely out of the tournament package. 586 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,200 They were in the midst of potentially being looked at as a 587 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,800 tournament team, but not really. And then at the end of it, they 588 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,120 don't make the tournament and they're out. 589 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,000 And it just ended up being a really unenjoyable season all 590 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,200 the way through. And you knew it. 591 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,560 Honestly, like the moment in in that first game in Atlantis 592 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,760 where you realize that Indiana was in real trouble against 593 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,840 Louisville. From that point forward, it's 594 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,560 like the the potential of the season and anything that might 595 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,640 have been fun in the least just went away very quickly. 596 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,480 And you know, I can remember what was it. 597 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,920 It was at one point, I think it was like it was 2720. 598 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,360 No, it's 2925. And there were about 5 minutes 599 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,960 left in the first half. And it's like, well, this might 600 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,760 not be too terrible. And then Indiana proceeded to 601 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,040 score 4 points in the next 9 minutes and that by that point, 602 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,600 they were down 48 to 31. And that was before they left 603 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,000 the 23 to three run off in the second-half. 604 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,800 And it's like, wow, this team doesn't care. 605 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,720 Like fundamentally now, there were times when they did care, 606 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560 but they constantly look like they were fighting against their 607 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,440 own nature and fighting against a system that had been installed 608 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,040 that didn't really work for who they were. 609 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,760 And I think that's the thing I'm going to remember the most. 610 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,680 There were legitimately talented players on this team. 611 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,960 There were players that legitimate that legitimately did 612 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,240 care. But by the end of the season, 613 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,280 you, you know, you had a guy that you brought in at point 614 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,200 guard who you couldn't play as a starter at point guard. 615 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,640 You had to play him in almost spot relief and, and you gasped 616 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,360 every time he took a jump shot. You had a center who played 617 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,680 really hard but got undercut by the way that his coach decided 618 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,480 to employ him with another big man. 619 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,840 And you could say the same thing about the other big man. 620 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,280 You had a player who was not the most gifted offensively, but 621 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,120 clearly was a guy that did a bunch of things right to help 622 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,040 the team that didn't play that much in the first part of the 623 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,760 season for reasons that we still haven't ever had really 624 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,880 explained to us. And talk about Anthony Leal, of 625 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,240 course. I mean, Anthony Leal in the 626 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,640 first, what, 4/13/14 games of the season only had five games 627 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,240 where he played double figure minutes. 628 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,800 And once you got to the Iowa game, he didn't have a game 629 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,520 where he played less than double figure minutes. 630 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,720 So like, yes, Indiana kind of figured it out at the end. 631 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,560 But I think what was most disappointing and, and a little 632 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,040 bit offensive, I think it's just, it's just a fan is it's 633 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,640 like it took them that long to figure out this is how you're 634 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,920 supposed to play winning basketball. 635 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,040 And when I say they, I mean the like Mike Woodson, it, it 636 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,720 shouldn't have taken that long. And the stubbornness and the 637 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,760 arrogance with which he approached this season and last 638 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,760 season really frustrates me because it led to where things 639 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,720 ended up. And I don't know how you 640 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,000 sugarcoat that. Like, there's not there's not a 641 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,560 redemption arc here where it's like, well, you know, Woodson 642 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,040 really tried his best here and there. 643 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,440 Yeah. I mean, in the macro, I'm sure 644 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,080 Mike Woodson had the best of intentions. 645 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,000 But in the actual micro of looking at how he handled this 646 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,040 roster, this team and how he, you know, the, the way that the 647 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,400 players interacted with it, you just cannot help but be 648 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,639 frustrated at a lot of lost potential. 649 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:13,120 This was not a team with the talent level that should have 650 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,960 missed the NCAA tournament. You know, an 8 seed should have 651 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,400 been a disappointment for this team. 652 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,159 Missing the tournament is unfathomable, unfathomable or 653 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,280 unfathomable in English. If you look at the talent and 654 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,440 you look at the potential and it never or at least rarely reached 655 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,880 that potential. And that is that is probably. 656 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,679 It actually makes I think this season even more frustrating 657 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,679 than last year 'cause last year's team has had some serious 658 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,040 flaws in the way it was constructed roster wise. 659 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,400 This team should not have fallen victim to that same problem 660 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,320 because it had the talent, it just didn't have the plan. 661 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,880 The other thing, and we'll do more Woodson postmortems with a 662 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,480 lot to talk about, but the thing that was really stark this 663 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,360 season, but that I'm going to take away from the Woodson era 664 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,600 is just how disconnected I think I felt and a lot of fans felt 665 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,160 from the coaching staff and the team, which is bonkers when you 666 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,080 think about the main selling point for bringing Woodson in. 667 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,480 He didn't have any college coaching experience. 668 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,680 He wasn't a young, innovative coach. 669 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,360 It was this guy understands Indiana basketball, he 670 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,640 understands what's important, he understands the fan base and he 671 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,240 understands what needs to happen. 672 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:35,320 And none of that happened, you know, under Creed, for the most, 673 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,600 it felt like Creed understood how important Indiana basketball 674 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,880 was. His ability to pass that on was 675 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,200 sometimes in an odd manner. Basketball was different then, 676 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,680 but you had teams where you had guys for multiple years that you 677 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,080 connected with. I understand things are 678 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,560 different, but it's like not even Indiana thing like 679 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,280 Christian Watford just has had a connection over years. 680 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,640 Even before the watch shot. You know, guys like Verdell 681 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,400 Jones, you got to know, you know, But even under Archie, you 682 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,080 can tell with Archie, it's like part of it was just like, whoa, 683 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,280 this personality is not a good type for this type of job. 684 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,960 And he tried to kind of grin and bear it. 685 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,000 But you even had guys like Juan Morgan or Romeo Langford. 686 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,520 Like there are people that connected here, you know, 687 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,600 outside of Anthony Leo and Trey Galloway who've been around for 688 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,640 a little bit. I think Luke Goody too goody. 689 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,840 Yeah, no Goody came in this year, but and I'll I'll get off 690 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,400 the players. I just this the coaching staff 691 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,080 like it's just you never felt like there was a connection 692 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,440 between this team and the fans. And it's it's wild because that 693 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,400 was the whole idea of bringing a former knight player back. 694 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,120 Bringing a former player back was supposed. 695 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,960 This was not supposed to be the problem that there are many 696 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,560 other things that could have been the problem that wasn't 697 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,320 this and it many times it felt antagonistic toward the fans, 698 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,200 you know, telling us real fans and it's like it's your fault 699 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,120 and like it is wild that it got to that. 700 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,800 But I've never I will speak for myself. 701 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,800 I've. Since I left college, I've never 702 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,200 felt so disconnected and apathetic toward the IU 703 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,200 basketball program. It, I felt this way once and it 704 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,280 was, it was in kind of the, the, the bottom of the Davis era. 705 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,080 And, and that was, you know, there was, it was a very 706 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,440 complicated time, But I mean that the O3O4 and O four O 5 707 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,120 teams and, and even a little bit of the O5O6 team, although it 708 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,120 wasn't quite as bad, really, there was a distance there, but 709 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,480 people still felt very connected to the program. 710 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,080 Because, you know, obviously the atmosphere around IU basketball 711 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,880 was much different 20 years ago than it has been given 712 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,160 everything that's happened over the course of the last decade. 713 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,720 And you know, look, I, I think it was, it's, it was weird 714 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,120 'cause like, Archie was clearly not the right fit for the 715 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,520 program. Archie didn't have the right 716 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,520 personality. He didn't recruit the right 717 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,640 players. You didn't feel the same level 718 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,040 of disconnect. And look, I greatly appreciate 719 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,840 the players that played on this team and, and last year's team, 720 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,000 but it, it really did feel like the barrier was with the 721 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,320 program, like the program belonged to Mike Woodson and 722 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,560 Mike Woodson was going to let you know that the program 723 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,720 belonged to Mike Woodson and. Little stuff that I'll never get 724 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:13,680 over. Like when he got pissed and he 725 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,560 felt like his feelings hurt. It's like, I'm just done talking 726 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,640 to Don Fisher. Yeah, it's like that's. 727 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,120 That's how you want to. Do it. 728 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,720 That's just, that's petty. And I, well, it's tough because 729 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:25,120 I mean, you know, there's, there's like a comment about Leo 730 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,960 telling everybody to chill Luke Goody, you know, making the 731 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,760 comment about don't jump back on the bandwagon once you jumped 732 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,360 off. And look, I would have advised 733 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,160 the players not to say those things, but I think it's 734 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:40,680 important to also keep in mind that the players, I think, feel 735 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,880 responsibility to protect the coach. 736 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,920 They're going to go out and say things to try to protect the 737 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,120 coach, but it's the coach's job to not put the players in 738 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,720 position to say those things. And it felt like Mike Woodson 739 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:55,640 for the last two years has been throwing people in front of him 740 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,520 to try to protect himself from a reputational perspective. 741 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,240 And that's a shame. And you know, look, I'm sure 742 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:05,720 things have not gone the way that Mike Woodson would have 743 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,600 intended, but it's just, it's hard when you look at all of all 744 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,960 of the things in totality, the lack of a, a comprehensive 745 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,840 strategic plan that really worked in the modern college 746 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,760 game from an offensive perspective, the fact that the 747 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,200 defense was always just incredibly mid for Indiana. 748 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,880 Like it never really got to a point. 749 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,520 I mean, Woodson, you, you look at Indiana over the course of 750 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,280 the four years that Woodson will have been here, they'll have 751 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,760 finished with defensive efficiency ratings of 244584 and 752 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,840 38. So they had one top 25 defense. 753 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,040 And it was essentially with the team that he inherited from 754 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,080 Archie Miller. Offensively, they never like, 755 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,440 except for the one year, even with Trace Jackson Davis, one of 756 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,040 the best players that we've seen in Indiana uniform in this 757 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,160 century, they were only 28th in the country in offensive 758 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,800 efficiency. The other three years they were 759 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,360 95th, 105th and 68th. When you take that and you add 760 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,000 it to the complete lack of effort or intensity when it 761 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,240 comes to recruiting. You know, no recruiting plan our 762 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,040 our friends over at X's and Joe's, Mike Weemuth in 763 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,440 particular, has pointed out like all of the misses that IU had in 764 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,080 recruiting. And then you Add all of the 765 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,240 public comments and all of the questionable things that 766 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,360 happened there in this feeling that Woodson almost acted like 767 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,600 criticism of him was it was unreasonable under any 768 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,600 circumstances. And you just it it it meshes 769 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,120 with a lot of what you read about Mike Woodson's ten years 770 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,320 in Atlanta and New York, to a lesser extent more Atlanta, but 771 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,880 it just created a lot of barriers between fans and the 772 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,000 team. And look, we've been through a 773 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,200 lot calling, you know, talking about games over the course of 774 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,080 time. Scott, what you just expressed 775 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,000 and what I've heard from so many fans about the distance that 776 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,800 they feel emotionally between themselves and this basketball 777 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,200 program. This is at a level I've never 778 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,320 heard before. And it's going to take a lot of 779 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,960 work by IU athletics and whoever they name is this next coach. 780 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,080 It's not just about we're going to name a new coach and 781 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,480 everything's going to be fine and you're going to come back 782 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,400 and everybody needs to get excited because we got a new 783 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,120 coach. Like there's a lot of bridge 784 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,120 building that this athletic department and this coaching 785 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,000 staff, whoever this new coaching staff is, you're going to have 786 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:29,320 to do because they have essentially allowed the fans to 787 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,160 be turned into an oppositional force from a perceptional 788 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,640 perspective by by by Mike Woodson. 789 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,920 And a lot of people are not going to forgive and forget 790 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,040 that. Like that's going to stick in 791 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,880 the back of people's minds. Like, there's going to have to 792 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,120 be a lot of work done to try to bridge that gap that frankly, 793 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,000 the athletic department is kind of allowed to happen, mostly 794 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,800 passively, but they've allowed it to happen. 795 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,640 Well, no. And as you say that like you, 796 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,680 hey, let's let's forget. It's like, no, I'm I'm done 797 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,920 being told what to feel and how to come back happily. 798 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,240 I'm going to push back on one thing you said when you said 799 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:04,640 like, I'm sure this isn't the way Mike Woodson wanted it to 800 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,600 happen, but I don't. I'm sure he didn't want to go 801 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,040 like this, but I'm not sure he thinks it's his. 802 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,960 Like I still, I've never heard him say that. 803 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,560 Like this really sucks. This is not the way I want it to 804 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,440 go. I'm I'm quoting Rav Johns 805 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,640 tweeted this. This is after the Oregon game 806 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,680 from Mike Woodson quote. I don't think there's a team in 807 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,720 the country we can't beat if we prepare and compete for 40 808 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:25,480 minutes. I don't think today's game was 809 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,000 an indication of how we've been playing the last 2 1/2 weeks. 810 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,440 Well, Mike, it is 'cause you lose like teams that are better 811 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,200 than you, you guys lose to and guess what? 812 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,960 Whose job is it to prepare and get your team ready to compete 813 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,800 like your job. Like what I haven't heard is him 814 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,560 just say, man, damn, this has been a tough four years. 815 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,240 This hasn't gone the way I wanted to. 816 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,720 He hasn't said that. So I mean, I I get your 817 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:47,880 sediment, Galen. Well. 818 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,040 I don't think he knows that. Like, I think he's like, let me 819 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,080 be clear. I I think in the idealized world 820 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,920 that Mike Woodson has in his brain about how he wanted this 821 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,160 to go, I don't think he wanted it to go this way. 822 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,800 No, I I agree with you. His comments I. 823 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,520 Totally agree. I totally agree. 824 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,760 And I and I think one of the things that became incredibly 825 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,440 frustrating for IU fans. But but look, here's the thing, 826 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,840 the Woodson's comments in in his radio shows, in his post game 827 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,840 conferences, like those things really frustrated IU fans after 828 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,040 a while. But let's be fair, that happened 829 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,400 with Archie. It happened with Crean. 830 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,520 Like coaches, when team, their team isn't performing at a high 831 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,440 enough level speak they always, they always do that. 832 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,000 And you know, as and Andy Stubb points out in the chats, like 833 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,080 Woodson never took accountability and was never 834 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:34,600 really held accountable until now. 835 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:40,120 I, I do think it's fascinating, like the sentiment inside the 836 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,360 fan base is kind of what we're talking about right now. 837 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,920 The sentiment outside is still, well, was Mike Woodson treated 838 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,400 too harshly? And I just it's hard when you 839 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,680 look at this culmination and whether or not you want to argue 840 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,960 that I you should have been in the tournament or not. 841 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,280 There's frankly no difference in my mind between what we're 842 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,000 talking about right now with IU out of the tournament and what 843 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,840 we would have been talking about a week from now if IU had gotten 844 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,640 in. As in the play in game, right? 845 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,440 I mean, it's real. It's the same season. 846 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,920 Like the the the end really doesn't matter that much. 847 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,360 And so I just, you know, and this I think actually, you know, 848 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,640 Ray makes a good comment here. Woodson never built a a winning 849 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,840 culture. And, you know, it's the one 850 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,360 thing I'm hanging on to hope with Scott Dolson as he goes 851 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,720 into this coaching search is I hope that there's finally a 852 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:34,640 recognition that you have to have a coach that builds culture 853 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,600 and builds it quickly. And we've seen that it can be 854 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,880 done. You know, I mean, you, you look 855 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,160 down at what Pat Kelsey did in one season with a brand new 856 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,360 roster in Louisville and they won that many games. 857 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,400 You want to look at Ben McCollum at Drake, You know, and again, I 858 00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:51,760 we've the, the, the audience thinks I hate Ben The oh. 859 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:54,400 You're a fan of Don't hate. Ben McCollum. 860 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,320 I don't hate Ben McCollum. I admire his ability to build 861 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:58,640 culture in a short period of time. 862 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,680 I just think I want to I want to see him do it a few more years, 863 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,000 but but ultimately there was never a culture built and and 864 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,960 look, you and I went to a ton of games in person over the course 865 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,720 of the last, you know, four years. 866 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,920 And honestly, I feel like the the team that felt the most 867 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,080 together was that first team in some cases and it got 868 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,720 progressively less like Trace Jackson Davis kind of towed them 869 00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:25,800 along in that second season a little bit with. 870 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:31,040 I mean, think back to when fantasy hit that shot and we won 871 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,600 and there was the memes of Woodson with a cigar. 872 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:38,680 I mean, it, it's that that feels like eons ago. 873 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:41,520 And that was his first year. And that that's what's wild 874 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,520 Galen is the culture was there. I mean, like that team did feel 875 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,360 together. You had fantasy on people's 876 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,840 shoulders, like they they rushed the court. 877 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,440 You beat Purdue, it was there and he brought back TJD, You 878 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,880 brought back a lot of that team. That was the culture of that. 879 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,920 I mean, you, you had, you built it like he had. 880 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,640 He did it that quickly and then it just completely fell apart. 881 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,640 Yeah, it's you know, it, it, it's just a shame. 882 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,000 And we we'll, I don't want a deep dive in the entire wood 883 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,920 scenario right now. There's time for that later. 884 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:18,880 But I do think as we think about the the IT being over at this 885 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,640 point and we're still just kind of soaking it in like it's all 886 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,960 over. But it just, if there's got to 887 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,240 be a culture builder here next, and it's not just a culture 888 00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:30,640 among the players, it has to be a culture that includes the 889 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,480 fans. You know, as as much as people 890 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,120 have decided they're going to try to rag on the IU fan base, 891 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,440 this is an incredibly loyal, incredibly passionate fan base 892 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,520 when they are treated properly. And I think that's the real key 893 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,840 thing, you know, when, when, when the fan base is actually 894 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,960 kind of brought into the tent a little bit, then there this is 895 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,480 this is a fan base that you can effectively weaponize in a 896 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:59,080 positive way as a coach. And it's it's just not been 897 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,600 there over the course of of the last time. 898 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,360 And so, you know, what I'm frustrated by is, is ultimately, 899 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,320 and you know, and Pierce talks about this, can you think of a 900 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,600 lower talent to win ratio than the last two years? 901 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,720 I'm struggling to think of one. I mean, I mean, there haven't 902 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,320 been very many teams that had the level of talent this team 903 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,880 had, but there was there was no center to it. 904 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,760 There was no there was no centrifugal force that brought 905 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,320 this team forward and allowed them to do the things that they 906 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,760 needed to do. And then you add in all of the 907 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,560 recruiting losses, you know, when you're you know, it's 908 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,840 losing Liam Mcneely to UConn, you know, that one sucked. 909 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,960 I get it. Losing Jalen Harrelson to Notre 910 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,000 Dame, who's what got to a 13 and 17 this year. 911 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,920 Like it just all of these things that you could have used as 912 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,720 small things at least to win and get talent in it wouldn't have 913 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,240 mattered because there wasn't a really a culture to plug them 914 00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:51,360 into. Probably not. 915 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,280 But Mcneely thing is almost like the scheduling. 916 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,200 It's like where's we put all of our eggs in one basket. 917 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,680 Yeah, it's like that's like guys like that sometimes go to UConn. 918 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,080 Adams says actually there were too many centers. 919 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,680 That's that's well done, Adam. That's that is really good work. 920 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,240 I that that might be the comment of the night so far. 921 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,600 But but, yeah, just just as Patrick said, like it was, you 922 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,600 know, recruiting Woodson, skipping events, all of these 923 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,400 things, these things, these, these things don't matter that 924 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,040 much when you're winning. They don't matter that much when 925 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,520 you feel good about how the team's going. 926 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,800 And even though, as, as Newcastle notes, Woodson beat 927 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,160 Purdue multiple times. Yeah. 928 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,360 I mean, Woodson finished with a 500 record against Purdue. 929 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,560 What else would be like that? I'm not saying that flippantly. 930 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,400 It's like that is really like you look back at the at the era 931 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,080 you'll be. Well, Woodson did beat Purdue. 932 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,200 I'm not sure there's a lot else that he can hang his hat on if 933 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,840 you think about the full four years. 934 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,920 The recruiting stuff and and that my buddy was on this real 935 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,760 early first year. Woodson gets hired and then 936 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,240 doesn't go to the Indiana State title game and, you know, they 937 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,360 go to the the Indiana State final four and and he's like, 938 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,680 that's weird. And and I was like, oh, you 939 00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,680 know, he already has his recruiting, you know, you kind 940 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,560 of wash away. But it, it's not even just 941 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:02,760 recruiting. It goes back to something that 942 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,280 you've said that, you know, being the head IU basketball 943 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,840 coach in Indiana is almost like being, you know, the Pope or a 944 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,160 deity. And but being that that's a big 945 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,400 event in the state of Indiana. And even if you're not 946 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,160 recruiting somebody, you go there and you meet the coaches 947 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,600 because guess what? In a couple years, one of those 948 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,320 coaches there is going to have a kid you're going to want to 949 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,120 recruit. And if you just blow them off 950 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:23,760 and you only show up when you want that? 951 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,280 One recruit, you're not going to get him. 952 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,960 And looking back, it's like that was a huge like, wow, that 953 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,040 should have been a huge Canary in the coal mine. 954 00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:34,560 And dude, that was like Week 2. That was week two of the job. 955 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,840 You know, part of part of the argument that people made to try 956 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,240 to justify the Woodson higher, which if you'll recall, like was 957 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,440 there was some skepticism because it was out of left 958 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,280 field. It's like we go back and listen 959 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,080 to our podcast on it was like, OK, I guess we'll talk ourselves 960 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,280 into this, but part of it was what we're going to do things 961 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,560 differently now. And, and we're going to be, you 962 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,200 know, like there, there was this whole different regime that was 963 00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,000 going to be taking advantage of this influx of NBA guys. 964 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,960 And it's it just it, there was not an infrastructure in place 965 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,080 to make it work. And that's not IU athletics 966 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,000 fault. I don't think it was Woodson 967 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,160 tearing the infrastructure down that they tried to build. 968 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,920 And then it was basically Woodson, in many cases, not 969 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,880 participating in the kinds of things you have to participate 970 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,160 in to be successful. And I to some degree feel bad 971 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:28,280 for the assistant coaches who, I mean, they, they did go out and 972 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,280 try to recruit and they did other things. 973 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,240 And I don't think they ever had the backup that they needed from 974 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,600 the head man in order to make things happen. 975 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,760 And that's that's a real problem in any coaching situation at the 976 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,920 college level. And so look, I mean, you know, 977 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,680 we've we've really, we've litigated the woods and hire a 978 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,080 bunch. We've talked about some of the 979 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,680 things that have gone on. I mean, it's, it's just 980 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,760 frustrating. And I think for a lot of people, 981 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,960 I mean, we got it's 1030 on a Sunday night. 982 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,560 We got 550 people watching live right now. 983 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,720 And I think for a lot of people, it's just like this feels like 984 00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:08,520 the nadir, you know, this feels like the point where IU they're 985 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,440 moving on from this coach. I think everybody, at least most 986 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,160 people are relieved. But ultimately it's like, what 987 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,400 now? Because there's no future. 988 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,480 I mean, there's there's clearly going to be a future. 989 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:21,120 There's going to be a coach hired. 990 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:22,720 There's going to be new players coming in. 991 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,000 There's going to be hopefully New Hope if they get the higher 992 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,320 right. But I think right now, without 993 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,760 any of those things in place and just sitting here as an IU fan 994 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,360 and reflecting on the last four years and really the last nine 995 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,480 years, there's very little to get excited about. 996 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,680 There's very little to feel pride in. 997 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,040 If you're an IU basketball fan and you're looking around and 998 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,720 you're like, you know, I mean, again, Louisville comes back 999 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:50,640 from winning what, eight games last year? 1000 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,600 And, and I mean, the fact they're an 8 seed is ludicrously 1001 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,800 stupid. I have a theory about that I'll 1002 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,880 share on a different podcast. But you see them, You see, you 1003 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:04,120 know, as you look around the Big 10, you know, this year, you 1004 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:09,160 know Michigan hires Dusty May and goes from a team that went 8 1005 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:14,880 and 24 last year to 25 and 9 and Big 10 tournament champions this 1006 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,400 year. You see Oregon come in from the 1007 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,880 PAC 12 and make the tournament. You see UCLA come in and make 1008 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:26,000 the tournament like Maryland, who again, as I think everybody 1009 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,520 will remember, was bad last year. 1010 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,680 They were 16 and 17. They successfully recruited 1011 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:35,080 Derrick Queen and they went 25 and eight this year and are a 1012 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,760 four seed in the NCAA tournament. 1013 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,280 And it's like, on the one hand, you can look at those things and 1014 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:40,360 say, well, that could happen to us. 1015 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,320 On the other hand, you look at it and you're like, how the hell 1016 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,360 is Indiana a program that's got all of its history? 1017 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,800 How how have they been unable to make any of those sorts of 1018 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,040 hires? How have they been able unable 1019 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,720 to turn around the program in any way, shape or form? 1020 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,600 And how after investing arguably more money than any other Big 10 1021 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,480 team in their roster this year, how did Indiana end up out of 1022 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,640 the tournament? I mean, it is just, it's, it is 1023 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,920 a level of frustration that I think most IU fans feel. 1024 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,040 The fact that there are this many people that are still 1025 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,640 interested in IU basketball, there's people that should be 1026 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,480 thanking those people every day that they're still interested. 1027 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,680 Because I know how frustrated I am as a fan, Scott, and I know 1028 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,240 how you feel. And for all of the talk about 1029 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,520 oh, there's too much negativity, there's too much this or that, 1030 00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:34,680 This is why there's negativity. This is why people don't 1031 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,080 believe. This is why people are insanely 1032 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:41,560 cynical about this. And I am very fascinated over 1033 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,720 the next two weeks to see how Indiana Athletics decides to 1034 00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:50,600 address this because frankly, and look, you know, you all 1035 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,000 know, you've heard me talking up. 1036 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,200 I'm pretty sympathetic to IU athletics on a number of things. 1037 00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:00,560 The silence and the deference to Mike Woodson over the last six 1038 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:06,360 weeks is starting to, I think, get on a lot of people's nerves 1039 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,320 because at some end, you know, Patrick pointed it out like 1040 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,200 Derek, you know, West Virginia dairy and debris comes out and 1041 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,560 has some kind of statement about not missing the tournament 1042 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,280 crickets so far from Indiana. I mean, it just feels like, 1043 00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:22,200 again, we've had an abrogation of duty here as far as 1044 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,280 communicating with the fans, and I'm just like, at some point 1045 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:30,520 that has to stop. Yeah, no, I, you said it all 1046 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,800 perfectly. The the thing that you said 1047 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,480 earlier that is starting to eat me up now more, and I think I 1048 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,760 speak for a lot of other people as well, is whatever we do next. 1049 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,080 I I don't want to be told and shited as a fan to be like, all 1050 00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,200 right now, now we're going in this new direction and you need 1051 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:48,920 to follow us. Like now we need to be excited. 1052 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:54,080 Like I I'm I'm very just let me let me get excited on my own. 1053 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,040 And you know, you see how they did it with football. 1054 00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:59,320 There wasn't it just kind of signeti was just there and all 1055 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,800 of a sudden he's yelling at basketball games like whoa, I 1056 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,640 kind of woke everybody up. But it's like I see it happen 1057 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,440 organically. But as you said, you know, if if 1058 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,160 we hire somebody and it's somebody on the list that you 1059 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,800 and I were both kind of like about, that's fine. 1060 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,520 But I don't want to be told, OK, now let's be a super excited 1061 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,400 like now let's buy season 10. Just stop, like, let it happen. 1062 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,960 Let's start winning some games. I'm tired as a fan of being told 1063 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,360 how to feel and being told how I should be excited. 1064 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,800 And and you make a great point of there's nothing, you know, 1065 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,360 Woods Woodson is saying nothing about missing the tournament. 1066 00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,680 It sucks. You're right. 1067 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,720 All we know. Is that everyone wants to be out 1068 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:40,800 because they've already just worked out of every. 1069 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,400 We're not doing the NIT, we're not doing the crown, we're not 1070 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,520 doing anything. Yeah. 1071 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,280 I mean, I mean, look, you the Signeti thing is a great example 1072 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,120 that I mean, and and his statement going into that, this 1073 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:59,400 whole idea of I was upset at the how low people's opinions and 1074 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,080 attitudes were about IU football and I felt I needed to do 1075 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,000 something to kick start it. And he was right. 1076 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,800 And you, you really do. You're not going to hire the 1077 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,120 same type of person as Kurt Signetti for IU basketball for a 1078 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,480 number of reasons. And to Signetti's credit, the 1079 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,600 number of people who I've talked to who either knew him or knew 1080 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,320 somebody that knew him at James Madison who were like, this is 1081 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,120 not the guy that was at James Madison in terms of the way he's 1082 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,720 acting in the press. Like he, he, he amped it up like 1083 00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:35,320 to WWE levels to the point that now you've got like morons at 1084 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,880 Barstool talking about him being insufferable. 1085 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,440 To which I say, good, right, good. 1086 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,080 I'm glad that I'm glad that IU football is bothering you in 1087 00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:48,440 March, but you need someone at this point. 1088 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,560 Like you need that. You need that level of turn up 1089 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,880 with basketball. Basketball needs a real kick in 1090 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,960 the ass from a culture perspective as far as the 1091 00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,560 overall program culture, not just the not just the players, 1092 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,920 but the way like the IT is. It is a very stale pro product 1093 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,240 because as you said, they've missed the tournament 7 out of 1094 00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:12,440 the last 10 years. It is not a product that I mean, 1095 00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,720 you have to really deeply love IU basketball to still be 1096 00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:20,640 engaged in it. And IU is incredibly lucky that 1097 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,040 they have so many people that love IU basketball this deeply 1098 00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,800 and have such a long standing love for it that they have been 1099 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,840 willing to stick with it and continue to go to games. 1100 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,840 And you saw if you went to games this year in person, you didn't 1101 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,720 see this on television, but if you went to games in person, you 1102 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:42,400 could see as as 5 dusty banners points out in the in the chat, 1103 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,080 the fanbase is dying off. It's on life support a little 1104 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,760 bit. The, the, the mains were not 1105 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,840 filled for every game. The balconies were empty for 1106 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,920 most of the games. I think the Purdue game was the 1107 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,880 one game where there were people all throughout the balconies. 1108 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,800 And even that wasn't completely sold out. 1109 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:03,600 It might have been numerically like, you cannot continue to put 1110 00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,680 a subpar product year after year in front of people and then tell 1111 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,880 them that it's their fault, that it's a subpar product. 1112 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,880 And I think that's the thing that's irritated me the most 1113 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:19,360 about this last six weeks, is that the overarching atmosphere 1114 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,840 on this, not necessarily from IU athletics, but certainly there's 1115 00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,080 been nothing put out to try to counter that. 1116 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,720 That perception is that somehow this isn't Woodson's fault or 1117 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,040 Archie Miller's fault necessarily, that somehow the 1118 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:34,520 fans have been to blame for this. 1119 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,880 And I just there better be some damage control. 1120 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,680 There better be some real efforts on the part of the new 1121 00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,600 coach and the new coaching staff, but also athletics to try 1122 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:45,560 to acknowledge the fans in some way. 1123 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,840 You know, whatever you want to say about the night era, 1124 00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,360 whatever you want to say about the the Cream era, even for for 1125 00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,440 the fans, always felt like they were front and center. 1126 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,640 And I feel like we've drifted further and further away from 1127 00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,360 that over the course of the last decade. 1128 00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,680 And it's a much different thing right now than it was when Cream 1129 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,520 got fired. And that needs to change. 1130 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:11,480 Like we've got to have something different at this point. 1131 00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,000 I agree. So. 1132 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,560 I agree so I I'm going to move move us forward just a little 1133 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,560 bit of coach. I want to ask you, this is what 1134 00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,680 I've been thinking about. I, I've listened to everything 1135 00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,600 you've put out. You've if you're not listening 1136 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,840 to Galen when he does coaching talk, it's it's fascinating. 1137 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,000 A plug to the insider. You got a great insider video a 1138 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,680 couple days ago. Just kind of laying at your 1139 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,240 thoughts on things. I'm going to ask you this. 1140 00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,280 So now we know one variable is down. 1141 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:40,240 We're not making the tournament. I'm going to ask you, I feel 1142 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,440 like I'm comfortable in saying this now that if Indiana does 1143 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:49,560 not have a press conference or a coach by let's say Tuesday, I 1144 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:55,360 feel pretty comfortable taking all of the non NCAA coaches off 1145 00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,000 the board. So NBA coaches, coaches who are 1146 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,920 currently not coaching in the tournament, I would say they're 1147 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,440 off the board and you're just going to be your coach is 1148 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,880 currently in the NCAA tournament. 1149 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:07,440 Is that is that a fairway to look at it? 1150 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,520 I mean Thursday, Tuesday, Wednesday, But it just feels 1151 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,080 like if you if you're lining up somebody who's not in the 1152 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,360 tournament right now, you do it Monday or Tuesday. 1153 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,920 I don't know that I necessarily agree and here's here's why. 1154 01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:24,440 As of a week ago, there was a real good chance IU was going to 1155 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,920 be in the tournament. You are probably going to be 1156 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,480 approaching things from the perspective of well, let's take 1157 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:38,400 the most extended timeline while also keeping in mind the portal. 1158 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:44,920 And if that's the case, I don't think that you're going to set a 1159 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,080 deadline. Like I've seen a lot of people, 1160 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,640 We had actually someone in the chat earlier who I recognized 1161 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,640 from other chats. I'm always curious who that is, 1162 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,760 but I've never actually gotten a clear sense of who they are. 1163 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,880 And but they're not the only one that said this, that have been 1164 01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,120 arguing that there's going to be a press conference tomorrow. 1165 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:00,880 I do not believe that we're going to see any kind of an 1166 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,840 announcement tomorrow about a new coach. 1167 01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:08,600 But I would say even even if it's not a current NCAA coach, 1168 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,760 which I think is a possibility, I don't think you can 1169 01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,640 automatically assume that if we get to Thursday and there hasn't 1170 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,760 been an announcement that it's somebody that's currently 1171 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,640 coaching. And, and here's why. 1172 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,840 I, I think from the perspective of how you would have timed this 1173 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,000 out originally if you had something, if you've already got 1174 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,480 something squared away, which is one of the the going theories, 1175 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,400 which is that I use had someone said they're in the background, 1176 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,040 they wanted to wait till the season was over. 1177 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,520 You kind of have to because of how complicated it is. 1178 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,960 Even if that's the case, I don't think you're scheduling that for 1179 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,720 Monday. And if you didn't already 1180 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,760 schedule it because you might have been in the NCAA 1181 01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,400 tournament, well, you're not going to suddenly turn around, 1182 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:51,320 call the guy and say, hey, fly to Bloomington immediately or 1183 01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:52,760 we're going to send the plane because we're going to do a 1184 01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:54,520 press conference right now. I just don't think it's going to 1185 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,560 work that way. So I understand where you're 1186 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,960 coming from, but I don't think that you can really read 1187 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,240 anything into the announcement timing for this week when it 1188 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,480 comes to that population or that sample of potential coaches. 1189 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:07,560 But wouldn't have to be this week. 1190 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,880 You mean, again, let's say it's somebody not coaching in the 1191 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,360 tournament. Wouldn't you want to get it done 1192 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,640 before the portal opens? Well, you would like to, but 1193 01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,520 again, I, I think this is where it's going to be really 1194 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,160 fascinating with a lot of these teams how they handle this 1195 01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:26,840 because there are going to be some teams that are going to try 1196 01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,040 to fill this week. But like, for instance, like 1197 01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:30,840 North Carolina State does not look like they're on the 1198 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,800 precipice of hiring somebody immediately. 1199 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,360 We hear, we've heard names tossed around Will Wade's in 1200 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:36,920 that mix. There's another couple of people 1201 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,960 in that mix, but that's looks like it's still in the rumor 1202 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:41,360 stage. We don't know what's happening 1203 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,360 there. Iowa, I mean, they're, they're 1204 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,160 parting waves with Fran McCaffrey. 1205 01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,360 They don't look like they were immediately going to hire 1206 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,840 somebody. So I think you would like to get 1207 01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,080 somebody in before the portal opens. 1208 01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,120 I don't know if you're necessarily going to be able to. 1209 01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:01,280 You got to get somebody in very quickly around the time that the 1210 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,160 portal opens. And again, just a reminder 1211 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,880 everybody, the portal opens in eight days. 1212 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:10,920 It's not like a long way away. But with all of that thought 1213 01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,480 through, I just would like to note that, you know, you need to 1214 01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,400 be careful about assuming because we go go past a certain 1215 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,040 date that that takes certain candidates off the table that. 1216 01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,760 Makes sense? Yeah, the coaching thing is 1217 01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,240 going to be fascinating because again, and I'll, I'll reiterate 1218 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:26,840 what I said in the subscriber video. 1219 01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,320 I also said a little bit in one of the podcast a couple of days 1220 01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,280 ago. I, I just would be very, very 1221 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:37,640 careful about making assumptions based upon what you're hearing 1222 01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,400 in media reports or, you know, whatever you want to call like 1223 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,640 Internet reports, social media, because you know, like all the 1224 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,480 talk today was about Brad Brownell and all the talk over 1225 01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:51,720 the course of the Thursday we're at. 1226 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,520 Now is that is that our guy for the for the week? 1227 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,800 But then, but then before that it was all about Ben McCollum 1228 01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:01,720 and and I just want to note that the could it be one of those two 1229 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:03,760 guys? Sure, it could be. 1230 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:07,280 I mean it, it's very possible. But again, I would just note, 1231 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,320 like when when Kurt Zignetti got hired, he was not being talked 1232 01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,080 about by anybody. Seriously. 1233 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:18,040 All the talk was on Jason Candle. 1234 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,000 All the talk was about, you know, Paul Crist, like these 1235 01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,160 were the names that we were hearing. 1236 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,120 He mentioned some of the talk was that Allen wasn't going to 1237 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,520 get fired, right. No, you know, Adam Rittenberg 1238 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,920 was like, oh, hey there. Like, you know, he's going to we 1239 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:32,920 think he's going to be retained. We've heard no talk about him 1240 01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,120 fire like that. Really that you think. 1241 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:40,000 So when Mike Woodson got hired, we didn't know Mike Hart was 1242 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:40,720 another one. Thank you. 1243 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,600 Andy Stump. When, when, when Woodson got 1244 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,240 hired, We didn't really have an inkling before the the news 1245 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,840 broke the day of. You know, there was that weird 1246 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,280 scene at the Knicks game where Woodson's, like, hugging people 1247 01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,360 as he's walking off the bench. And it was like, well, that's 1248 01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:58,000 weird. And if you put two and two 1249 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,320 together, you would have saying, OK, maybe that's the indication. 1250 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,080 But people didn't look at that and say, Mike Woodson's going to 1251 01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,040 become the next head coach. That's not how the reporting 1252 01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,920 went. When you do a Google search, 1253 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,320 coaches hugging starting. Today. 1254 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:13,800 When? When? 1255 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,840 When when we saw Archie Miller get hired, the, the, the news 1256 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,120 kind of came out of nowhere. It wasn't rumored. 1257 01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,360 I mean, Steve Alford was the one that we heard about constantly. 1258 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,680 Remember, like I remember distinctly Seth Greenberg with 1259 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,800 his normal terrible analysis coming out after hearing Scott 1260 01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,200 Dolson talk and saying, you know, you, you hear Scott Dolson 1261 01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:36,840 say these things, he's talking to Steve Alford. 1262 01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:38,640 It's like he wasn't talking to Steve Alford. 1263 01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:40,440 He was never talking to Steve Alford. 1264 01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:45,280 You know, So I just, I would just really caution everybody to 1265 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,720 be careful to accept at face value. 1266 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,440 And I would also caution Dolson, don't talk to Steve Alford this 1267 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:51,800 time. He's. 1268 01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,800 Alford already announced that he was coming back to Nevada for a 1269 01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,200 that doesn't. Mean anything. 1270 01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,840 So it's like if if Alford calls let's. 1271 01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:01,440 Not don't. Not take that call but. 1272 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,960 You know, so I just want to, I want to just tell everybody 1273 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,120 don't freak. That's actually, I think a 1274 01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:07,800 really good attitude with a lot of this. 1275 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,080 Don't freak when you see things on message boards. 1276 01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,960 Don't freak when you see things on Discord. 1277 01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,520 Don't freak when you see things on X, because again, if you 1278 01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,320 acknowledge that Indiana has managed to keep almost all of 1279 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,280 these hires under very, very tight wraps until they happen, 1280 01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,400 it doesn't make any sense that we would know about Brad 1281 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,960 Brownell three days before he got hired, or that we would know 1282 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,840 about Ben McCollum 5 days before he got hired. 1283 01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,880 Like what? Like, what's the logic that you 1284 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,840 would be using to make that kind of a leap? 1285 01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,880 Right? That's that's the thing that the 1286 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:42,920 people get sucked into it. I get it. 1287 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,840 It's not a whole lot different than people getting sucked into 1288 01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,560 the Brad Stevens thing, you know, like, so I get it. 1289 01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,160 But but my point is don't freak during the search. 1290 01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,600 And and I don't know when the search happens, but I guarantee 1291 01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,760 something's gonna drop. It'll almost certainly be Zach 1292 01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,880 Osterman that gets the news first or, or Pete Thamel, like 1293 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,160 one of the two. It'll probably Thamel because 1294 01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,960 it'll be an agent calling Thamel and he'll release the news and 1295 01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,720 then Osterman will jump on it immediately. 1296 01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,240 That's how the system will work. That hasn't happened yet, but 1297 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,720 just if I almost look at the presence of names on message 1298 01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:20,120 boards and chatter as being a good indicator that person won't 1299 01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:25,160 be in contention for the job. And as we've seen, like, you 1300 01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,520 know, there's now rumors that Brunel is going to get a 1301 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:29,080 contract extended. We don't know if that's actually 1302 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,880 the case or not. But it is fascinating watching 1303 01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:33,800 all of this and you look at how it's timed out. 1304 01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,200 I just think the I just don't want people to get too down the 1305 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,280 road of being despondent. I've had so many people message 1306 01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,920 me the last couple of days who are huge IU fans, but they're 1307 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:45,760 like, I can't take another bad hire. 1308 01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,800 And I'm like, the only reason you're saying that is because 1309 01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,000 you're convinced from these media reports in very loose 1310 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,040 terms that we're having a bad hire coming up. 1311 01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,760 And I just had a hard time fundamentally believing that if 1312 01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,360 that was the direction we were going, that it would be this out 1313 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,200 in public already. No, I agree. 1314 01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:06,560 The the trouble is my speaking to myself as well here now is 1315 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,600 when it gets really hard not to freak out. 1316 01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,600 You know, the we, we've known we've been doing this, this 1317 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,800 coaching thing. You and I have done what, 5 1318 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,040 podcasts with four different coaches every time over the last 1319 01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:19,479 four or five weeks and it's been, it's been easy to be fun 1320 01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:21,600 while there's also games going on. 1321 01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,560 Oh, this is fun. Like, and then I'll also watch 1322 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,520 IU play Oregon in a couple days and like now it's done. 1323 01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,120 But like now we are just a boat without a motor. 1324 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:30,200 Well. We're just we're. 1325 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,000 We're a boat, the oars are pulled in, we're just sitting 1326 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,000 there and, and now this is all we have to think about. 1327 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,080 But just like now, now is the time. 1328 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,439 You do need to heed the advice to, to chill. 1329 01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,000 And I'm speaking to myself as well because I get caught. 1330 01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,840 I I start thinking about it, get caught up and start trying to 1331 01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,760 connect the dots and, and now is where these are going to feel 1332 01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,600 like dog years. Every day is going to feel like 1333 01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,760 a dog year. I would like to to say hi to the 1334 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,160 truly Discord who's apparently watching the show. 1335 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,000 At least some of them are. Thanks to Jay for pointing that 1336 01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,399 out. And someone was like, I don't 1337 01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:02,920 have any tidbits. I'll say this. 1338 01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,520 I have been really careful not to say who I think they're going 1339 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,640 to hire or say, even though I want they're going to be higher 1340 01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:14,000 because I don't want what I say on this front to make people 1341 01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,399 think that I know something on this, that that I'm hiding or 1342 01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:20,399 anything like that. I mean, to me, I've said all 1343 01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:24,720 along the, the number, the people who think that they know 1344 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,439 what's going on with this coaching search don't. 1345 01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:31,640 And I go back to this, this is actually a really good point. 1346 01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:33,720 I, I did already see Matt Painter. 1347 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,840 I did see Matt Painter. That's right, though, Erger 54 1348 01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:39,120 here. Does the hire process for coach 1349 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,040 significant give you any confidence they can get the IU 1350 01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:42,760 basketball hire correct? It does. 1351 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:47,160 But again, that that part of that process was that nobody 1352 01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,640 really knew what was going on. Part of that process also was 1353 01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,800 that I, I was conscious that there were fake names or 1354 01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,040 misdirection names that were being spread by people who were 1355 01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:02,400 close because they were trying to throw people off the scent. 1356 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:07,200 And so that's one of the reasons why AI think that they've spent 1357 01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,040 a lot more time on this than people are giving them credit 1358 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,760 for. And B, they are very, very good 1359 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:17,720 at not tipping their hand. And I think we should be, we 1360 01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,720 should feel good about that. I I will say I do not blame 1361 01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:25,880 anybody in the IU fan base who is approaching this hire with 1362 01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:30,000 extreme skepticism, given how the last couple of hires for 1363 01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:34,200 basketball have gone. And we may get to the higher and 1364 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,160 it may be somebody who is like really unimpressive. 1365 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,760 And at that point, I will probably say some very critical 1366 01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:45,000 things about the process. But until we get to that point, 1367 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,080 I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because I 1368 01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,160 was very skeptical of the football process. 1369 01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:54,880 And it yielded not just a great coach who I think would have had 1370 01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,400 a good season in his first year like most normal coaches do, but 1371 01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,720 it yielded a coach that ended up with the greatest season in IU 1372 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,640 football history. So it's just kind of like I'm, I 1373 01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,120 think they've bought at least. Some benefit of the doubt while 1374 01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,200 this process goes along. I agree. 1375 01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:13,400 No, and and that to me is where the Signeti hire really matters 1376 01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,760 because you know, it's some people are mentioning here and 1377 01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:17,880 we've talked about it many times. 1378 01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:19,360 You you know, this is this is Dolson. 1379 01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:22,680 This is like a small group of people, Scott Dolson leading 1380 01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,640 this. And you know, you have to have 1381 01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,560 faith that he's going to make the right choice. 1382 01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,720 And his track record is that he does. 1383 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:31,280 He does. And he did. 1384 01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,880 So you have to assume that he knows what he's looking for and 1385 01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,360 what he's looking for thus far has been good because it worked 1386 01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,320 in in football. And so you it's really a comment 1387 01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,120 here by most like it's it. We have to chill. 1388 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,720 It's hard to chill when nothing's happening and there's 1389 01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,960 no more games. But I, I agree. 1390 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,320 We, we have to the, the thing that I will say back to kind of 1391 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,400 your, your larger take on the IU atmosphere and you know, the fan 1392 01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:02,400 apathy and just myself, I early on when you said, you know, IU 1393 01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:07,200 has to nail this hire, I, I intrinsically kind of disagreed 1394 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,080 because I just felt like, Hey, it's IU. 1395 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,880 Like we, we hired a bad coach. We had another bad hire, like we 1396 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:14,920 had two bad coaches four years apart. 1397 01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:16,960 Like we'll just, we'll do it again in four more years. 1398 01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,320 The more I hear you talk and the more I think about my own 1399 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,960 feelings of where we're at with basketball, I, I'm more on the 1400 01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,160 moving more toward we have to nail this higher. 1401 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:32,880 Just be just because I look at myself, you know, and, and I 1402 01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:34,600 forget someone had this in the comments up here. 1403 01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,440 He's been a season ticket holder for 23 years. 1404 01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:37,800 The first year he hasn't gone to a game. 1405 01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:39,840 I went to I think three games this year partially. 1406 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:41,280 So I, I have kids that are getting older. 1407 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,800 It's just like life's getting busier, but it's, it's no longer 1408 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,360 appointment viewing for me either. 1409 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,920 It just, you know, I've sees I've had season tickets since 1410 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,040 2000 and with my dad, like I mean, it was, it goes back to 1411 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,760 the 2000s and I've had tickets probably 20 plus years as well. 1412 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,760 This is the least number of games I've gone to as well. 1413 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,560 And I I just use myself as kind of an avatar for a lot of fans. 1414 01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:06,160 I could see myself disengaging even. 1415 01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,960 I'm never going to stop caring or, or not care, but I can see 1416 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,800 myself disengaging more. So I just, I, I've come around 1417 01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,240 that I do think this is a very, very important hire. 1418 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:19,040 And even if they don't stick it and it doesn't work, you know, 1419 01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,360 you need to have some wins, but you need somebody who can 1420 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,200 understand the, the atmosphere they're coming into. 1421 01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:28,600 And while it's not the Tom Crean kind of toxic wasteland, that 1422 01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,480 there is a lot of toxic residue out there and there's some 1423 01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:33,880 issues. And you need a coach who 1424 01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:35,920 understands that, you know, it's not all their fault. 1425 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:40,400 A lot of this precedes them, but it it becomes it becomes their, 1426 01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:41,840 you know, cross to bears, so to speak. 1427 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,240 And they they have to be the one to move forward with it. 1428 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,240 And they're going to take some arrows that probably are 1429 01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:49,440 directed at people who were here in the past and they have to 1430 01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:51,640 take them and move on. Yeah, No, it's. 1431 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:56,000 I think you you really did a great job of summarizing the a 1432 01:13:56,440 --> 01:14:00,320 large part of the picture. It is going to be a tough sled 1433 01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,640 to start with. And, and look, I think Caleb and 1434 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,720 Bob both bring up some good points. 1435 01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:06,960 I mean, Caleb says IU fans just need to look at the hires 1436 01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:09,200 Kentucky and Louisville made. All their fans were pissed. 1437 01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:12,560 They both had great seasons, Bob, you know, throws Michigan 1438 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,000 in there. They weren't happy with the hire 1439 01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,080 at the outset. The pool of available coaches, a 1440 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,960 pile of above average with questions except for a couple of 1441 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,640 you feel like they settled. I mean, Kentucky was like, do we 1442 01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:22,680 get passed whatever? Like Kentucky had a real crisis 1443 01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:23,800 of confidence. Yes. 1444 01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,760 And so, look, as we've talked about before, there's a bunch of 1445 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:30,480 different directions that you can go. 1446 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,760 What we've talked about on this show over the course of the last 1447 01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:39,560 six weeks is it would be great for IU to try a different 1448 01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,600 approach and go after a big fish and try to bring someone in 1449 01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:49,920 who's got a pre-existing track record of winning big at the 1450 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,560 power conference level. If they've taken some swings at 1451 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,040 those folks, but it hasn't worked out for various reasons. 1452 01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,120 I think what's important to understand is that is not a 1453 01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,080 reflection necessarily on whether the IU job is good or 1454 01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,120 bad. I think it's a reflection more 1455 01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:07,480 on the fact that college basketball now is different than 1456 01:15:07,480 --> 01:15:09,840 college basketball was 25 years ago. 1457 01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,520 When Bob Knight got fired, there were a number of coaches at big 1458 01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:17,160 programs who would have crawled over broken glass to take the 1459 01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,880 Indiana job. Then of course, Miles Brand 1460 01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,280 decided he's going to hire Mike, Mike Davis as opposed to going 1461 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:26,440 out and hiring Rick Pitino, who really wanted the job, or hiring 1462 01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:28,200 Bobby Cremans, who really wanted the job. 1463 01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,760 Like there were a bunch of program, you know, coaches at 1464 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,080 other programs who were like, Indiana is clearly one of the 1465 01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:39,640 best programs you can go to now. I mean, look around like your 1 1466 01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,800 seeds are Houston, a team that was in the American Athletic 1467 01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,560 Conference a couple of years ago, Florida, which a couple 1468 01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:49,440 years ago wasn't even in the NCAA tournament. 1469 01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:53,680 Auburn, which was, you know, like the graveyard for college 1470 01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,920 basketball coaches more often than not. 1471 01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:58,160 You know, Alabama was in contention. 1472 01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:02,200 Alabama was barely a contender. You know, before they hire 1473 01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:07,040 NATO's, I think what we've seen is that you don't have to be at 1474 01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:12,120 Indiana in order to win big. Scott Drew won a title at 1475 01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,960 Baylor, which nobody would have predicted 20 years ago was even 1476 01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,200 a possibility. And that was before they had 1477 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,160 half their team, you know, have to transfer because somebody 1478 01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:25,640 murdered somebody on the team. So I say all of that to say, if 1479 01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:28,520 Indiana's able to land a big fish, whether it is one of those 1480 01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:32,320 types of coaches, the Drews, the Otso Burgers, the Lloyds, you 1481 01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:35,040 know, whether they land a guy, you know, they land a Brad 1482 01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,600 Stevens or a Billy Donovan or, or somebody like that. 1483 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:42,000 I mean, even if they don't land any of those, there are a lot of 1484 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:46,120 great coaches that are at at lower levels or coaches that are 1485 01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:49,360 just getting into the higher level, but are clearly on the 1486 01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,360 beginning of the upswing of the the bulk of their their best 1487 01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:54,840 years. You know, they're just entering 1488 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:56,520 their primes. You know, coaching primes are 1489 01:16:56,520 --> 01:17:00,040 normally between about the ages of 48 and 62. 1490 01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:03,480 There's a bunch of guys that fit that category. 1491 01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:08,200 Those won't be sexy hires. And as we had pointed out with 1492 01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:12,440 Louisville and Michigan to a lesser extent, I think, you 1493 01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:14,600 know, people were like, who Dusty Mays at least been to a 1494 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,240 Final Four and certainly Kentucky with Mark Pope. 1495 01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,200 Not hitting the big fish looks a bad in the beginning because 1496 01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,960 it's hurtful to your pride, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad 1497 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,400 hire to go with the next person. But you have to have someone in 1498 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,640 place who really understands what that means. 1499 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:36,280 And I think where IU fans are understandably skeptical is that 1500 01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:39,760 in their brains, they've got IU hiring Mike Davis. 1501 01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,240 They've got IU not moving on in the right amount of time from 1502 01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,560 Tom Crean. They've got IU, you know, 1503 01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,480 deciding, yeah, let's put Bill Lynch in as the head football 1504 01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:50,120 coach. That'll work out really well. 1505 01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:52,760 Like, you know, the hiring Mike Woodson. 1506 01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:56,320 I I think what's different now is I really think whether or not 1507 01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:59,600 you want to attribute the Woodson hire to Scott Dolson or 1508 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,720 not. I think that Dolson has really 1509 01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:06,160 grown in his time as athletic director. 1510 01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:08,680 And I think the fact that he went through this entire process 1511 01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:11,320 of trying to figure out what made good football programs, 1512 01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:16,040 good football programs and use that as a criteria through which 1513 01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,920 he then went and found Kurt Signeti. 1514 01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,920 You you have to say, perhaps he's learned a lot more about 1515 01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,360 what makes a program work and and how much, how important 1516 01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,520 culture is, how important understanding of logistics are, 1517 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:34,560 how important it is to get someone in place who understands 1518 01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,280 what their job is and is willing to do it. 1519 01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:41,600 Like those things matter. And I don't know that those 1520 01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,080 things have necessarily mattered. 1521 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,200 I think honestly, I think Fred Glass, it was like Archie 1522 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:48,000 Miller's the top name in the pool. 1523 01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:49,200 I'm going to go get Archie Miller. 1524 01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:53,200 And it's kind of like there's a story in Season on the Brink 1525 01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:55,840 about where where they're going through the whole thing about 1526 01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,960 Delray Brooks and most people don't remember Delray Brooks. 1527 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,400 Delray Brooks was Indiana Mr. Basketball I think in 1982 or 1528 01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,720 83, and I think it was 82 actually, or maybe it was 84, 1529 01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:08,760 whatever. It was around that time Michigan 1530 01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:13,160 City and everybody wanted Delray Brooks. 1531 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,200 And Bob Knight is like, well, this guy's clearly a good 1532 01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,520 player. He's like, Delray, I expect to 1533 01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,120 see you in Indiana. I want you there. 1534 01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:21,840 Delray really wanted to come to Indiana. 1535 01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:26,400 Delray gets to Indiana and it's very apparent very quickly that 1536 01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:30,360 Delray Brooks can't play the style of basketball that Bob 1537 01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:32,880 Knight needs him to play. He can't play good man to man 1538 01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:34,800 defense. He's not a great individual 1539 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,080 scorer. He's not a guy that can play in 1540 01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:39,880 the system that Bob Knight is playing. 1541 01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:41,600 It didn't mean Delray was a bad player. 1542 01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,800 Delray went and start, you know, was one of the two best players 1543 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,360 arguably for that Providence team that went to the Final four 1544 01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,200 in 87 alongside but Billy Donovan. 1545 01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:56,040 But it was a great case of of of Knight at that point focusing on 1546 01:19:56,040 --> 01:20:00,280 a player because he was highly rated, not because he fit with 1547 01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,400 the system. And I think that to some degree 1548 01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,840 that's what happened with Fred Glass and Archie Miller, where 1549 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:08,000 like Archie Miller was clearly the best hire of the cycle. 1550 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,880 Everybody thought that was the case, but he didn't fit what 1551 01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:15,040 Indiana needed. And as we've heard after the 1552 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:19,640 fact, Archie. Talked to his brother Sean and 1553 01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,400 his and Sean's like you have to take the Indiana job you don't 1554 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,200 like turn down Indiana from Dayton. 1555 01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:27,280 But it was clearly something he was never comfortable with. 1556 01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,920 And so I I think that I'm going to give Dolson the benefit of 1557 01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,480 the doubt that Dolson has learned from that experience 1558 01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:38,320 that you have to have a guy who's not just great on paper, 1559 01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:41,680 but great for the situation. And as we've seen now on 1560 01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:46,240 multiple occasions with IU basketball, that is absolutely a 1561 01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,360 key element of being the head basketball coach in Indiana. 1562 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,520 You can't be here otherwise. Or if you learn nothing else 1563 01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,640 from listening Crimson cast, just hire the guy who raises 1564 01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,400 miniature goats. Miniature donkeys. 1565 01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:02,600 Donkeys. Donkeys, yeah, that's, that's 1566 01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,000 all you gotta do is just hire the guy that has miniature 1567 01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:07,360 donkeys and you're all good. No, I agree with all that. 1568 01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,320 I think it's it's a good, it's a good mindset to go into the next 1569 01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,120 week or two with. It is and and look, we may hear 1570 01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,600 something sooner rather than later. 1571 01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:18,440 We may hear something that you know, you, you may hear 1572 01:21:18,440 --> 01:21:20,400 something that you're just kind of like, I don't know about 1573 01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:23,680 that. And look, it may not work. 1574 01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,600 I don't think you're going to be able to effectively litigate it 1575 01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,440 on the first day of the hire or the first time you hear it. 1576 01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,400 And then again, I'm not talking from any level of insider 1577 01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,760 knowledge. I've got my theories about 1578 01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,240 what's happening. And, and there was something 1579 01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:40,880 that was said earlier in the chat that that I do think is 1580 01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:42,160 really important to keep in mind. 1581 01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:44,200 And I mentioned it in the subscriber video today, but I'll 1582 01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,080 say it here too. Like, I really do think the 1583 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:52,200 seeds for Woodson's actual exit were planted internally in the 1584 01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,240 minds of IU Athletics a lot earlier than February. 1585 01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,760 You know, I think this is something that IU Athletics has 1586 01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:02,240 been looking at for a while, you know, and well, this is so 1587 01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:03,640 everybody's asking me to share the theories. 1588 01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:05,920 This is why I don't share theories on the podcast, Scott, 1589 01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:08,920 I'll say this. It's not me. 1590 01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:12,120 The, the, the, the, the theory, at least part a of the theory 1591 01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,480 is, I don't, I really don't think you have a three month 1592 01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:16,920 period or two-month period of time where you know that the 1593 01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:19,440 job's going to come open at some point, whether it's in February 1594 01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:20,480 or whether it's the end of the year. 1595 01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:25,560 And you do no work to, to, to address that or to, to, to range 1596 01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:26,680 things. And you know, you can make the 1597 01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:28,000 argument. I think Andy's brings up a good 1598 01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:29,320 point. Like in Dolph's mind, it might 1599 01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,480 have been last year, allegedly. I mean, all that smoke that we 1600 01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:36,120 heard in February of last year about the job potentially coming 1601 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:37,760 open, that didn't come out of nowhere. 1602 01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,920 So this is not something that just popped up. 1603 01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,360 It wasn't like Mike Woodson walked into Scott Dolson's 1604 01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,280 office like, hey, I'm retiring. Surprise, like it didn't work 1605 01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,040 that way. That there was clearly something 1606 01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,320 that happened earlier on that allowed Indiana to start going 1607 01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:55,360 down this route from an intellectual perspective. 1608 01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:59,160 And Dolson, the way he works is a very kind of measured. 1609 01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,800 Yeah, this is not a guy who just shoots from the hip is yeah, 1610 01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:05,840 let's go with this guy. Like I, I'm with you on that, 1611 01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,120 that it's, if Dolson has nine months to work on something, 1612 01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:12,160 he's not going to do the project 2 weeks before it's due. 1613 01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:16,280 The one theory I'll share on this, and again, it's, it's not, 1614 01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,400 I don't have any proof of this, but it just, it seems 1615 01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:25,080 implausible given how leaky the rest of college athletics is, 1616 01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:29,880 that if Indiana's conducting a traditional coaching search and 1617 01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,280 they're actually bringing people in regularly and doing things, 1618 01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:35,600 you know, and, and talking with agents and things like that 1619 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,920 directly. There's been very little 1620 01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,560 actually leaked from the Indiana side on this. 1621 01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,680 You know, it's, and it's really what I find fascinating is the 1622 01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:49,480 amount of just, you know, tons of people talk to both Scott and 1623 01:23:49,480 --> 01:23:55,120 I through DMS or things like that, Like the, the, the number 1624 01:23:55,120 --> 01:24:00,320 of fake outs and, and fake names or misdirected names that just 1625 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:03,920 come out of the blue that get passed around and repeated over 1626 01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,400 and over again. And the fact that it's happened 1627 01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:11,120 in this very orchestrated pattern from the the very 1628 01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:14,680 beginning of the search all the way through till now. 1629 01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,680 Like, if you think, if all of you IU fans that go back and 1630 01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:21,600 think about the fact that, you know, first you had Dusty May 1631 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,240 and then Destiny May, Destiny May signed a contract extension 1632 01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:27,520 that was weird. And then you had TJ Otzelberger, 1633 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,720 which was promulgated by Jeff Goodman, who later claimed he 1634 01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,040 was not surprised that Otzelberger didn't take the job, 1635 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,280 whatever. Then I mean you, you've had this 1636 01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,800 whole litany of names that keep getting floated and they're 1637 01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:42,360 floated like just at the right time to like goose people's 1638 01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:49,200 attention. That seems season 1 of IU coach 1639 01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:51,880 search had writers. It kind of feels that way, Like 1640 01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:54,760 the writers room has been working overtime with this 1641 01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:58,840 coaching search. Now here's Lotus. 1642 01:24:59,320 --> 01:24:59,760 Like who? Who's? 1643 01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,160 Going to be the killer. The, the Steinman class says 1644 01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,120 Goodman knows shit. I don't agree with that. 1645 01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:06,000 But here's the thing. And, and this is, this is the 1646 01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,800 thing for those who don't like Goodman, and I understand why. 1647 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:12,240 I, I'm, I'm friendly with Jeff. I, I, you know, I, when Jeff's 1648 01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:14,840 in town, we, you know, we'll, we chat. 1649 01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:17,360 I enjoy talking with him. I think the thing to keep in 1650 01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:21,280 mind is that, you know, Jeff talks to a ton of coaches. 1651 01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:24,800 He talks to a ton of agents. It doesn't mean he's necessarily 1652 01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:28,600 getting the truth, but he is getting things that are being 1653 01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,880 told to him. It's his job to interpret those 1654 01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:33,600 things like any other journalist. 1655 01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,640 And and I think the thing to keep in mind with all of this is 1656 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,800 I don't think I don't think the journalists are purposefully 1657 01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,760 lying, but I also don't necessarily think that they're 1658 01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:45,640 getting accurate information. And it's tough to parse these 1659 01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,400 things. Ultimately, what we come down to 1660 01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:55,360 is if you have to come back to Indiana's conduct in these 1661 01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:58,200 coaching searches is different than most other universities in 1662 01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:00,840 terms of how they handle it. You think about how the Kentucky 1663 01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:02,640 search went down. You think about how the 1664 01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:04,680 Louisville search went down. There were a ton of things being 1665 01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:07,600 floated around back and forth. Those were very public searches. 1666 01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:09,920 There was a lot of leakage in those. 1667 01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,560 I don't think that's what we've been seeing with this IU search. 1668 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:16,880 Does that mean that Indiana will come up with a a different name, 1669 01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,360 one that we're not seeing on the board or one that's that's under 1670 01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,840 the radar? I tend to think yes, but I don't 1671 01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:25,400 totally know. And they had the question from 1672 01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:27,400 Josh, like, why are IU searches so different? 1673 01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:31,280 I think it's just 'cause IU has a really good system in place 1674 01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:34,960 where, you know, the, the, the power has been consolidated now, 1675 01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:36,600 you know, it's different in different searches. 1676 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:40,120 I think, you know, last time around it was like two or three 1677 01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,600 people, but they knew that it was going to be option A or 1678 01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,120 option B, and option B ended up being Mike Woodson. 1679 01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,280 So there really wasn't a lot of discussion that had to be had. 1680 01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:52,320 I think with this one, there's been enough of A, a runway 1681 01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:56,560 established in terms of knowing what Indiana needs to do that 1682 01:26:56,560 --> 01:26:59,280 they are they, they're able to coordinate things in such a way 1683 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:03,960 with the number of people who really need to know is really, 1684 01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:07,320 really small. And if you can keep that, and I 1685 01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,760 think Indiana's done a great job of it, like the number of people 1686 01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:11,960 I can think of at the top of my head that really need to know 1687 01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:15,280 what's going on is like the numbers 4, right, 80. 1688 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:19,720 And if you got that, and if you know how to contact people 1689 01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:24,560 through the right channels and if you're contacting the right 1690 01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:27,400 people, the rest of it plays out itself. 1691 01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:31,240 And so that's ultimately where we're at with all of this. 1692 01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:33,920 And so I'm really curious to see what happens this week. 1693 01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:39,760 And I I just have this sneaking suspicion that it's going to be 1694 01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:44,280 a name that is either was either talked about and then was Pooh 1695 01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:48,560 poohed as not being realistic and fell off the board, or it's 1696 01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:51,600 someone that we haven't really even thought of too much. 1697 01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:53,880 I have AI have a feeling it's going to come out of one of 1698 01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:57,080 those two categories. And if I'm wrong, I'll come on 1699 01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,800 here and say I was wrong, but we'll see. 1700 01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:03,080 Anyway, we've almost gone an hour and a half. 1701 01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:04,520 We should probably start to wrap it up. 1702 01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,960 But anyway, what we'll do throughout the course of the 1703 01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:13,280 week, folks, is obviously we'll keep ourselves, you know, up to 1704 01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,200 speed on what's going on, follow along on Substack, follow along 1705 01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:18,000 on X. Someone said I sound like time. 1706 01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:20,480 I don't know if I like that. That's not that's pretty, that's 1707 01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:24,480 pretty mean. But but but I do, I mean, I know 1708 01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:26,720 what you're talking about. I do think ultimately though, 1709 01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:29,920 the idea that there's a bunch of people that know what's going on 1710 01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,240 is false. And the idea like most of these 1711 01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:34,920 media reports are coming from agents. 1712 01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:39,880 Most of these reports are coming from people who have a vested 1713 01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:42,400 interest in particular information coming out there. 1714 01:28:42,480 --> 01:28:44,960 And, and just keep that in mind. Don't freak out. 1715 01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:46,680 We may find out something tomorrow. 1716 01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:48,160 I don't think we will, but we might. 1717 01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,200 We might find something out next week. 1718 01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:52,080 We might find something out two weeks from now. 1719 01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:54,880 And something we both talked, sorry, wrap up some of we both 1720 01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,040 talked about and you mentioned on your last pod as well, you 1721 01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:02,760 know, IU is the the best open job out there right now. 1722 01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:06,680 So much like LA was used as kind of a foil to get other, you 1723 01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:10,000 know, to get cities to get a new stadium, every agent is going to 1724 01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:14,200 use Indiana as a push to like, you know, if your if your coach 1725 01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:18,640 wants the Iowa job, you want Iowa to feel like Indiana's 1726 01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,320 about to hire that guy. And so Iowa needs to either make 1727 01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:23,480 an offer or make a better offer than what they were going to 1728 01:29:23,480 --> 01:29:25,720 make. And so that's the good and the 1729 01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:28,480 bad of kind of being the biggest fish in the pond is you're going 1730 01:29:28,480 --> 01:29:30,840 to be leverage for everybody else. 1731 01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:33,360 Yeah, and that's that's where it at. 1732 01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,200 And you know what, I think Indiana's actually fine with 1733 01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:38,680 that. I think Indiana likes the fact 1734 01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:40,160 that they're being used in that way. 1735 01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,600 It's just tough because fans end up getting caught in the middle 1736 01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:45,000 of it. Because when all you have, 1737 01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,600 because the athletic department can't say anything, they can't 1738 01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:49,480 come out and say, well, we're actually looking at this group 1739 01:29:49,480 --> 01:29:52,200 of people, not this group of people, but they can't come out 1740 01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:55,520 and say that directly to the fans and they, you know, so it 1741 01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:59,080 puts everybody in a bad spot. So all I'll say is like, pump 1742 01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,320 the brakes. Let's wait to see what happens. 1743 01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:05,640 Someone arguing that Villanova is as big of a job, maybe, I 1744 01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:10,480 mean, maybe I, I would say that Villanova is a they've won 1745 01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:14,560 championships more recently, but they're those championships were 1746 01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,680 Jay Wright, as we quickly found out. 1747 01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,120 And I don't think Jay Wright's coming back, which makes that 1748 01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,040 job a lot worse. And we'll see. 1749 01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:22,680 Maybe somebody else is able to do what they did. 1750 01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:26,200 But if you look at Villanova before Jay Wright, they wandered 1751 01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:27,640 in the wilderness for quite a while. 1752 01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:32,040 So anyway, guys and gals, all of you folks in the audience as 1753 01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:35,360 always really appreciate it. Hopefully this was therapeutic. 1754 01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:39,840 I know it was therapeutic for me and Scott and we look forward to 1755 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:41,360 chat with you all again throughout the course of the 1756 01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:42,320 week. Keep an eye on it. 1757 01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:44,960 Subscribe to the Sub Stack, subscribe to the YouTube channel 1758 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,000 and go to homefieldapparel.com. Thank you all and we will catch 1759 01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,640 you folks. On the flip side, the IU 1760 01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:54,040 Basketball 2425 comes to a close. 1761 01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:56,280 Let's see what happens in the offseason. 1762 01:30:56,480 --> 01:30:58,400 We love you all. Thank you for being a part of 1763 01:30:58,400 --> 01:30:59,840 all of this. It's been a hell of a year 1764 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:01,800 between football and basketball. Man, what a ride. 1765 01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:05,360 What a ride. Stay never daunted, folks. 1766 01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:07,480 Bring back the Bison. We'll catch you, folks. 1767 01:31:07,480 --> 01:31:09,200 On the flip side, it's all everybody.