1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,600 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:24,360 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast 3 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,000 Take Two as we've been battling some technical issues this 4 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,760 morning, but I think we've got them all set and we continue to 5 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,600 press on with our coverage of the house settlement and what's 6 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,640 going on with college athletics. I'm Galen Clavio, great to have 7 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,680 you joining us. We've got Ben Portnoy back from 8 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,040 Sports Business Journal. Ben, great to see you again. 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,240 How you doing? I'm good, man. 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,880 No, it's a busy time. It's a good thing there's 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,520 nothing to talk about in college sports these days. 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,080 So I think we're, I know we're really hurting for content and 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,800 discussion points, but we should be alright. 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,040 We're going to we're going to struggle mightily with all of 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,720 this, but we'll find a way to persevere. 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,360 No, a ton going on obviously and looking forward to, to talking 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,320 about this with Ben. We had Ben on back in, I think 18 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:11,360 late March or early April about what we are now going to be 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,880 talking about, sort of, but it's taking some twists and turns 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,120 along the way. So we wanted to talk through 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,600 some of the things he's seeing as a journalist and somebody 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,960 who's in this space and covering things and also just what we 23 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,960 might see moving forward. We're going to have some more 24 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:29,080 podcasts coming up next week. So a lot to talk about with this 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,320 is as we got a lot of different angles to hit throughout the 26 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:35,000 course of the summer. Just a reminder before we get 27 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,960 started, we are brought to you by Home Field Apparel, your 28 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:40,480 place to go for the finest in college fashions, the softest 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,640 fabrics, the coolest designs. 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All right, Ben, let's go ahead 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,800 and launch into it. And for those of you watching 42 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,080 along on YouTube, which you should be if you're not at this 43 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,920 point, I'm going to switch our aspect ratio so we can do some 44 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:31,960 good old fashioned vertical video talking about what's going 45 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,880 on in the world of college sports. 46 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,200 And just, I guess, you know, maybe to start with Ben, we're 47 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,680 about a week out right now from when the announcement of the 48 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,800 settlement occurred. Judge Claudia Wilkin taking as 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:53,160 she should, taking her time to put out the, the, the report and 50 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:58,200 the OR the the, the settlement, I guess approval process a week 51 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,240 in. We've seen a ton of stories. 52 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,000 We've seen, you know, a lot of things going back and forth. 53 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,320 We've seen a lot of people questioning where this landed. 54 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:09,800 What has been your take home points I guess from this first 55 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,800 seven days in the post house settlement era? 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,280 You know, I think the biggest thing that I've taken away is 57 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,520 just, I think that people have some real optimism around 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,000 college athletics right now. And I think that that's been, 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,920 not to say lacking, but I think there's been so much going on 60 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:28,920 that people have had a hard time wrapping their heads around like 61 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,720 where does this thing go now? I would press that by saying a 62 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,880 couple of things like the house settlement is not a catch all, 63 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,240 Like it's not a silver bullet. It's not going to magically fix 64 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,520 a lot of the problems that exist in the ecosystem. 65 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,840 But I think like kind of the way that I've, I've kind of 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,080 explained it to a lot of folks is like if you have a list of 67 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,120 like 10 things that you need to do to fix college sports, the 68 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,200 house settlement checks off like two or three things on that 69 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,840 list. And I think it at least gives 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:01,840 you a structure and somewhat of a whatever you want to call it, 71 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,040 like a baseline, basically of what this governance structure 72 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,000 of what the format of how college sports can operate 73 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,120 moving into the next, whatever the next iteration of this is 74 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,960 five years, 10 years, whatever it is down the line. 75 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,279 And I think that's ultimately what what it is right now. 76 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,720 And I think again, like there's a lot of optimism. 77 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,079 I think people are finally looking at this is like, hey, 78 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,880 the kind of mess of the last five years. 79 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,520 We at least have something that we feel pretty good about and 80 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,720 that we feel confident that we can at least get, you know, some 81 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,760 kind of governance and some kind of kind of ability to get our 82 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,760 arms around this enterprise. I think that's where where 83 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,200 everyone's at right now. Yeah, I mean, you know, the the 84 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,280 devil's always in the details with these sorts of things. 85 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:48,400 And I think that that's where perhaps some people are being 86 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,560 caught. I'm not going to say off guard, 87 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,680 but there's a lot of questions about different aspects of this. 88 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,080 And the biggest piece I would say that that's drawn the most 89 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,880 controversy, the most uncertainty is this idea of nil 90 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,480 go. You know, this, this agency that 91 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,680 Deloitte is running that's supposed to be a clearing house 92 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,440 for nil deals. There's supposed to be a self 93 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:18,280 reporting process for NI deals of $600.00 or more that is then 94 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,680 supposed to go through this process that ultimately could 95 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,400 end up with an arbiter that decides whether an nil deal is, 96 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,160 is, you know, appropriate or not given the criteria. 97 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,240 A lot of the question marks have really come up around how do you 98 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,480 even guarantee that nil deals are getting reported in the 1st 99 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,640 place? Doesn't this look like it's ripe 100 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,800 for corruption, given that, you know, we're, we're not what, 101 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,920 five years removed from a system where all of these payments were 102 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,320 happening under the table and behind closed doors? 103 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,960 You know, so when you, when you see that and you look at the way 104 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,760 that that's being presented and talked about by the conference 105 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,800 commissioners, they were very optimistic in that call a couple 106 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,400 of days ago that, oh, this was going to really help to 107 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,040 straighten things out. Like where do you see that in 108 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,040 terms of where people would like college athletics to be versus 109 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:11,560 where the actual market might be? 110 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,200 No, that's a really good question. 111 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,240 I think, you know, there's kind of two layers to this, right? 112 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,480 Like, OK, I think we can all agree that because of the 113 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:25,520 economic system in July 1, you're going to have rules like 114 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,440 that's that's a important distinction. 115 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,240 So it meant that people were front loading deals and saying, 116 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,000 cool, if I can get everything in under the gun, then we can pay 117 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,920 the kids more. We we need to use the money we 118 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,800 have on the books that otherwise like we basically will just be 119 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,800 like sitting on our books and doing nothing with right. 120 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:43,920 So there's a little bit of that. So that's why you've seen like 121 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,680 nil deals skyrocket over the last 6-8 months. 122 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,960 That's sort of like the two sentence explanation, the thing 123 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,240 that comes out of this, and I think there's definitely some 124 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,600 skepticism around like, hey, how or is the market actually going 125 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,960 to go down? And I don't really I think 126 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,520 that's a fair, that's a fair criticism of like, is there 127 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,760 going to be actually a world where come into it where there's 128 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,560 a little like like, is the price tag going to go down? 129 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,920 And yes, understandably there's some criticism around that. 130 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,080 But the thing that I think is really, really important to 131 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,480 explain with a lot of this and at least where the house I went 132 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,640 landed in the last whatever five days is that you this is all 133 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,840 coming out of a federal lawsuit. It's not just the NCAA sort of 134 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,840 superfluously, you know, creating rules and regulations 135 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,560 and then saying, cool, abide by this or you know, like, that's 136 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,160 not really what's happening here. 137 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,880 What's happening here is you've got a federal judge layout 138 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,560 groundwork for a governance structure that's going to have 139 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:50,360 subpoena, you know, an arbitration process, all of 140 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,640 those things. And because of that, you're 141 00:07:53,640 --> 00:08:01,000 going to have something that allows for basically like more 142 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,080 teeth than anything the NCAA could have had because it's 143 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,320 coming out of a leaf structure. And I. 144 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,680 Yeah, it's, it's a complicated thing for a lot of people to get 145 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,280 their heads wrapped around because, and this was brought 146 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,520 this, I've seen this in several of the legal writings that we've 147 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,360 had around this up to this point. 148 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,920 It's you know, that you're, you're not just talking about a 149 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,720 law for college athletes. You're talking about a, you 150 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,160 know, essentially a principle of law, which is, of course, the 151 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,320 right of publicity, which is what NINIL is all based around. 152 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,960 And this idea that you have actors and other people, 153 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,320 musicians, like they all have rights of publicity. 154 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,440 There are specific laws in specific states that deal with 155 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,480 right of publicity and that's what nil falls under. 156 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,240 But there's no national law about right of publicity. 157 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,760 You know, it's always been something that's been at a state 158 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,720 level. So that's one aspect of it where 159 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,040 the the idea of having a national law and this is 160 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,840 something that we're seeing being mentioned as a possibility 161 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,240 for this bill in Congress that's being discussed. 162 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,640 You know, there's all these factors where it's like you're 163 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,520 trying to create something at the federal level that doesn't 164 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,760 exist to apply to a specific class of people, in this case 165 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,520 college athletes and the business of college sports. 166 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,480 It's not just as simple as the NCAA saying this is what we're 167 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,160 going to do because there's no precedent for it really anywhere 168 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,000 else within any of the industries that you would try to 169 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,040 connect this with. It's a very unique thing. 170 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,960 And it doesn't even tie in with professional sports because 171 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,440 professional sports utilize unions and, you know, players 172 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,080 associations and collective bargaining to decide these 173 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,000 things. This is a completely different 174 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,880 thing that colleges and universities are trying to put 175 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,720 forth. And it's hard to say exactly 176 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,480 where that's going to land because that then has to be 177 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,520 there will be lawsuits. There will be people suing and 178 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,960 saying no, my rights are being infringed in this. 179 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,360 So it's really it. That aspect of it does feel hard 180 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,520 to predict, like what direction things are going to go. 181 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,120 Yeah, sorry I lost you a little bit there. 182 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,960 But I think like, look, the important pieces, right? 183 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,840 Like to your point, like it's it, it's different, right? 184 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,640 Like this is fundamentally different than just the NC as 185 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,640 but stipulating rules. Like again, it comes out of a 186 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,320 federal lawsuit. Like that's the point here. 187 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,960 I think that that is really important and and I think it's 188 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,160 what gives us teeth, right. Then you also tie in the fact 189 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,840 that like, so you know, I, I've sort of game this out with a few 190 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,040 people and I think it's an important sort of distinction 191 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,880 here is that if you have, let's play this out a little bit, 192 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,520 right? Like if I'm a football player at 193 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,280 Georgia and I get $100,000 NIL deal, I submit it to Deloitte 194 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,000 and you give me the thumbs down like, hey, this isn't kosher. 195 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,760 We're not going to allow this deal to go through, right? 196 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,160 Like the first thought in the previous system was cool, I'm 197 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,080 now going to sue you and hopefully I'm going to win 198 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,560 because you're, you know, it's an antitrust issue. 199 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,320 And that's, that's where we're going to go around and around 200 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,960 and probably I'm going to win. Well, the way that this 201 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,280 structure is set up is there's an arbitration process. 202 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,080 And so generally speaking, look like I'm no lawyer despite as 203 00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,880 much as I need to play in the legal weeds these days. 204 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:01,560 Maybe law school was a better and better idea. 205 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,400 But you know, I do think that, you know, because of that, 206 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,720 because there's an arbitration process, like generally 207 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,320 speaking, if an arbitrator goes through and says, hey, we're 208 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,000 going to spike this deal or this isn't, you know, we're not going 209 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,520 to give this the thumbs up. Like courts are generally not 210 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,880 keen on overturning what an arbitrator has ruled already. 211 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,480 Like I think that when you add kind of those legal layers to 212 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,560 this to what you were saying, I think about why this is 213 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,280 different. That's what gives this teeth in 214 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,920 a way that's that's unique, right? 215 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,960 Like, for example, like the NCAA for years, like the problem in 216 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,400 the conversation around investigations into the NCAA was 217 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,320 like they don't have subpoena power. 218 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,560 Like if you know, you go back and you would know this probably 219 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:42,000 better than me. But like, I think if, correct me 220 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,920 if I'm wrong, but like part of the reason that the Miami case 221 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,720 became such a big issue in the sort of mid early 2000s was that 222 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,320 Miami basically was like, yeah, NCA, we're not going to give you 223 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,360 anything. And so and, and so they couldn't 224 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,200 do anything about it. Whereas now you're coming from 225 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,520 a, a legal perspective, like this group will have subpoena 226 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,840 power and go so on and so forth. And so because of that, it, it, 227 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,680 it ultimately and fundamentally changes the way that the 228 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,600 governance of college sports can operate. 229 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,000 And it takes us out of the hands of the NCAA and goes in with the 230 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,760 with the College Sports Commission, which has kind of 231 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,680 been laid out as part of the settlement as well. 232 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,160 Yeah, I mean, it's there was a point it felt like in the mid 233 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,720 twenty 10s, you know what I mean? 234 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,400 So much of this, frankly, without getting into a large 235 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,200 political discussion, kind of maps to the political 236 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,240 environment of the United States in as much as a lot of it. 237 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:36,840 The NCAA relied upon for decades was school shame and the idea 238 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,800 that if you got caught cheating that you would have to throw 239 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,080 yourself on the mercy of the NCAA and they would they would 240 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,680 meet her out the punishments. Now, some schools like they 241 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:49,400 would, they would use delays. You know, the the famous Jerry 242 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,560 Tarkanian quote about the NCAA being so mad about Kentucky 243 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,440 basketball that they just gave Cleveland State two more years 244 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,520 of probation. Like, that was that was really 245 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,480 predicated on an era where with the NCAA doesn't really want to, 246 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,880 you know, tackle the big guys and gals when they're violating 247 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,480 rules because they don't really have that subpoena power. 248 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,040 And if you really wanted to fight it, you could. 249 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,840 But you were a pariah as a school, as a university at that 250 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,640 point. And then about 10-15 years ago. 251 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,520 And I think we need to give like, North Carolina athletics 252 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,520 their, their, their, their plaudits for this because they 253 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,480 just were like, yeah, we broke the rules, but we argue that we 254 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,760 didn't break the rules and you can't do anything about it. 255 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,200 And as it turned out, the NCAA couldn't do anything about it. 256 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,120 I mean, they could have tried, but they probably would have 257 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,080 gotten sued in court and maybe lost. 258 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,680 And when you are a body that is essentially your entire 259 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,120 existence is predicated on we enforce rules and then we 260 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,400 distribute money. That's the two things that the 261 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,880 NCAA, I guess you want to throw in organized championships. 262 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,680 Sure. That puts you in a position 263 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,440 where you can't actually enforce the rules. 264 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:01,080 You've got some problems. And I guess that's where for a 265 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,240 lot of people that very specifically the nil aspect of 266 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:10,840 this, until we see it in action, there's going to be this 267 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,640 perception that schools are taking advantage of the system, 268 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,480 that you've got money going under the table. 269 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,800 And it's been interesting because one of the arguments 270 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,360 I've seen from a lot of journalists and I think 271 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,240 rightfully so, is that when an IO payments became available, 272 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,400 suddenly the hegemony that for instance, the SEC had been 273 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,040 maintaining over success in football, success in baseball, 274 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,320 things like that suddenly started to go away. 275 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,840 And suddenly you get a lot more competitive balance, which makes 276 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,760 you question, well, gosh, what was going on under the table in 277 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,080 this previous era. So I think there are there is a 278 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,360 lot of sensitivity about going back to a system that favors 279 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,960 these under the table payments, even if now it's like, well, 280 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,800 schools realize you've got to pay athletes to come play. 281 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,400 Maybe that will be the thing that continues to keep it even I 282 00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,800 I don't know. I mean, do you have any thoughts 283 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,840 on on that setup and what to think there? 284 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,040 No, I mean, I think you're right. 285 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,320 Like, think about it. The simplest possible terms. 286 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Listen, it's a lot easier to tell the NCAA to go to hell than 287 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,840 it is to tell the federal government to go to hell. 288 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Like, those are two very different things. 289 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,160 Like, that's essentially what this boils down to, right? 290 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,120 Like, you know, you've got to a point where the NCAA, everyone 291 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,360 kind of just said, yeah, OK, like, that's nice and all good 292 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,160 and well, but like, we don't actually believe in those rules 293 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,400 and we're just going to sue you because of it. 294 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,040 And I think that, like, whereas with this, again, it's laid out 295 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,600 in a federal lawsuit, it just changes things. 296 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,720 And I think that that's why there's a lot of optimism from a 297 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,440 lot of administrators. And like, you know, I spoke with 298 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,120 a lot of this past week down in Orlando was the NACTA 299 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,360 convention, which is essentially, you know, the AD 300 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,480 convention annually that's held, you know, split between Orlando 301 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,000 and Vegas every other year. And so, you know, it was down 302 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,200 there and spoke with, you know, a number of folks were 303 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,120 intimately involved and piercing together this governance 304 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,000 structure and, you know, a number of other athletic 305 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,040 directors from around the country. 306 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,520 And like the point was and the sentiment was like, like, what 307 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,760 are we going to do otherwise? Like sit around with our hands 308 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,120 in our pockets and do nothing? Like, you know, we have to do 309 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,080 something. And I think that this something 310 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,400 is at least better than nothing. And I think, again, it sort of 311 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,160 lays out some level of a baseline for everyone to be able 312 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,280 to say, hey, in five years, 10 years, whatever. 313 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,240 Like this, this is a starting point, right? 314 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,200 Like this is governance structure 1A. 315 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,480 Like this is not the final form. And I think that's really 316 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,760 important for people to know. And I think and understand is 317 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,360 like this may not be permanent, it may not be the long term 318 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,040 solution. It's not going to be, you know, 319 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,080 the catch all. But I do think it at least gives 320 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,720 everyone a chance to get their hands around like the craziness 321 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,200 of the last couple years and and operate in a system that has at 322 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,800 least again some rules and regulations. 323 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,240 The the other, the next thing I was going to ask you about 324 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,400 though is this idea of So what we've talked about the nil 325 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,640 space, the revenue share is another thing that people I 326 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,360 think are there's some confusion about. 327 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,920 And so, you know, the best way to describe it is they've taken 328 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,480 a certain percentage of the total revenues of the power for 329 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,720 schools. And that's the revenue share 330 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,480 money, that average number that you can pay as a school to your 331 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,200 athletes, but you don't have to pay the full amount. 332 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,800 And there's no guidance about what percentages you're going to 333 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,200 pay to the various classes of athletes that are out there. 334 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,440 And so I think that what's interesting is there's a lot of 335 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,760 confusion and I think rightfully so because the announcement came 336 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,040 out. Well, twenty and a half million 337 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,680 dollars or whatever the number is will be going out in Rev 338 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,040 share. But that's not necessarily true. 339 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,320 We've seen several different schools say they're going to do 340 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,080 it different ways. And now we've also got a, you 341 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,440 know, what is almost certainly going to be a Title 9 lawsuit 342 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,880 likely to come soon about what does that need to be split 343 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,040 proportionally across female and male athletes? 344 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,560 Because that's how Title 9 is largely been interpreted up to 345 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,520 this point, at least in terms of scholarships. 346 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,600 Now that I think it's a lot of legal questioning about that. 347 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,720 But the the the Rev share piece, like it's important, it's 348 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,520 revolutionary because it does mean that athletic departments 349 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,160 are giving money directly to athletes. 350 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,480 And that's never happened before. 351 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,840 But it's a very kind of vague space right now as far as how 352 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,960 it's actually going to happen school by school. 353 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,360 No, it is. And I think like look like it's 354 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:15,560 easy to see how, you know, a school like Indiana is probably 355 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,440 going to put more money toward men's basketball than it might 356 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,200 football. And I don't mean that like it's 357 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,760 obviously going to contribute realistically, like make up a 358 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,520 number if you have 20 and a half million dollars, like 359 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,280 realistically Indiana's probably going to put, you know, twelve, 360 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,120 $13 million towards football, right? 361 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,400 It's not going to be 2 million, to be clear. 362 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,920 But like, you know, if Indiana's playing in a world where they 363 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,320 can give five, six, $7,000,000 to to men's basketball, like 364 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,200 that's a big difference, right? That from a lot of people in a 365 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,960 lot of other places. And so because of that, you're 366 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,400 going to have sort of this like financial sort of accounting 367 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,200 that I think is going to be vary from school to school. 368 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Like that is an interesting dynamic. 369 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,520 And I think it's also interesting for a lot of 370 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,920 athletic departments, like look like, you know, I live in 371 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,160 Columbia, SC. If you look down the road, like 372 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,920 the women's program needs resources in a way that others 373 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,360 don't, right? Or the baseball program. 374 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,920 And so like that creates an interesting financial accounting 375 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:10,880 piece. Source Those programs, those 376 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,640 places, those teams in a way that keeps them compared. 377 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,000 So I think that like that's where this becomes a fascinating 378 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,160 dynamic of like, what are schools going to do? 379 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,400 And it's going to vary a lot. And I think that's, that's the 380 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,320 thing, Like, yes, football's going to get the vast majority. 381 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,680 Yes, men's basketball's going to probably be second by a decent 382 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:28,960 amount. But then what you do beyond 383 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,760 that, I think is fascinating. Yeah. 384 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,040 I mean, and look, the money, the numbers that are going around 385 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,120 right now, I think people are having a hard time reconciling 386 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:45,400 what they're hearing and seeing currently with what we are 387 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,120 supposedly going to be looking at moving forward. 388 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,840 So as an example, you know that we had the quote from Kurt 389 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,240 Stignetti about a month ago where he was talking about, you 390 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,720 know, it's like 45 to $50 million of money being spent on 391 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,800 football teams. And you know, Signetti saying, 392 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,680 well, you know, in Indiana, like we don't, we're not in that 393 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,120 range. We're, we're, we have good NIL 394 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,360 resources, but it looks like it's more in like the $25 395 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,000 million range. There was the story yesterday or 396 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,840 couple days ago about Texas Tech spending $55 million in 397 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,680 combination NIL and revshare. Like that's a lot of money. 398 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,600 That's a that's a ton of money and it's not something that's 399 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,120 going to be consistent across areas of college sports. 400 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,520 Is it really a situation where we're going to see those numbers 401 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,320 retreat back to to more reasonable numbers, I guess, in 402 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,800 the eyes of people? How so? 403 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,760 That's where I think a lot of people's questions are coming 404 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,400 from, because on the one hand they're seeing the numbers that 405 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,960 supposedly will be coming through this new system, but 406 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,600 then they're seeing what's happening currently and it's 407 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,320 like, are we really going to go backwards? 408 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,360 Yeah, no, I mean, that's I think that's where there's a 409 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,880 skepticism, right? Like kids don't want to take a 410 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,480 pay cut. Like it's pretty simple, right? 411 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,560 Like the football team's not going to be, you know, not going 412 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,680 to be thrilled about taking less money or whatever it might be. 413 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,000 And I think like that's where it becomes this sort of impasse 414 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,640 between the two things of like, OK, we're putting in the 415 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,240 structure, but that also means that like, are the prices going 416 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,640 to go down or whatever it might be? 417 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,800 And so that's why I think like it becomes really important. 418 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,720 And maybe this is like rose colored glasses a little bit 419 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,600 because look, I think if anything's been proven, it's 420 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,880 that, you know, college athletics is really good at 421 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,000 figuring out ways to get around the rules and then finding ways 422 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,480 to get around everything. So, but I say that to say, like, 423 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,800 you know, are there marketing deals that get put in place? 424 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,040 Are there groups that are, you know, put together to to better 425 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,520 sort of marry brands and, you know, things like that into ways 426 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,560 for kids to profit off of their NIL and things like that, Like 427 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:37,960 that becomes a really important piece. 428 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,320 So like, for example, like a multimedia rights partner, like 429 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,840 Learfield, for example, that works with Indiana, right? 430 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,160 Are they going to be tasked with saying, Hey, we want you to help 431 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,560 bring more brands to the table that we can marry with our 432 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,280 athletes as sort of true NIL deals, true marketing deals to 433 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,960 help bolster what they can make off the field, like and, and 434 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,760 sort of supplement this package because that money will not be 435 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,760 subject to the cap, right? Like that's considered an 436 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,720 outside marketing deal. Like if, if Learfield and, and 437 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,840 the providers for schools like that, like Indiana can do that. 438 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,280 Like that's where you can see those price tags still go up. 439 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,360 But again, under the rules, technically you can't promise 440 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,040 that, but you know, we'll see what what happens there. 441 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,840 One big aspect to a lot of this, and we alluded to it earlier, 442 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,040 but I think we should probably circle back and talk about it 443 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,040 more directly, is this idea that a lot of these things, you know, 444 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,160 are going to really struggle to be held up in court or to hold 445 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,280 up in court without some kind of overarching federal legislation 446 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,000 or, or something that codifies this system. 447 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,200 Now. You know, I think it's first 448 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,280 important to note that even though baseball has an antitrust 449 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,720 exemption, even though the NFL has a limited antitrust 450 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,080 exemption around broadcast rights, the reality is those 451 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:58,600 systems work in terms of owners and franchises on the one hand 452 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,800 and athletes and unions on the other, because there is an 453 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,720 established labor relationship between employer and employee. 454 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,800 That's not what's happening here. 455 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:12,720 And and you know, college athletics had the opportunity to 456 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,160 say we're going to make athletes employees. 457 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,520 They've they've vigorously and vehemently avoided that. 458 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,320 And now we find ourselves in a position where they're trying to 459 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,600 kind of thread this needle where we'll know they're no, they're 460 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,040 still students. They're not employees, but we're 461 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,280 going to be paying them, which that's a hard thing to get your 462 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,480 brain wrapped around. But to then add another layer to 463 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,360 it and say, well, we're not going to collectively bargain 464 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,200 with these people. We're going to hold all the 465 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,520 power, but we need essentially legislation passed and signed 466 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,000 by, by the president to, to, to codify this system. 467 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,840 How likely do you see that as being something that occurs And, 468 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,640 and what are the things we need to be watching for at the 469 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,440 congressional level? Because that's really where it's 470 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,720 got to start. Well, as we all know, Congress 471 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,160 is a really efficient place to get it that get things done. 472 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,200 But I think that like, look, I mean, look, there was a hearing 473 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,160 yesterday. I guess we're talking on what 474 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,440 Friday, like on Thursday that there was a hearing around 475 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,120 college sports and it pretty much was Republicans were in 476 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,360 favor of it, Democrats weren't. And kind of that was that. 477 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,480 And we found that out within about 5 minutes and we still had 478 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,960 a 2 1/2 hour hearing. So I, I say that to say like, I 479 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,920 think there's optimism that Congress will get something 480 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,480 done. And I do think like Republicans 481 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,680 actually are in favor of trying to get something done. 482 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,520 But I think that it's going to entail a bipartisan, you're 483 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,520 going to need a bipartisan bill. And I think there's some real 484 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,080 concerns from a lot of lawmakers about if we carve out an 485 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,400 antitrust exemption for college athletics, what's like the 486 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,880 ramifications beyond that? Because like, I think that's 487 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,000 something that's important to note. 488 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,320 And like, look, I'm not a lawyer. 489 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,080 Yeah. And I joke, but like, despite, 490 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,680 despite my efforts in the last few months, like I am not a 491 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,560 lawyer. But I do think, like, there is 492 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,600 something to be said of like, what are the ramifications if 493 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,000 Congress creates a bill or sets a precedent with college 494 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,840 athletics that, hey, you can carve out this niche. 495 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,240 What does that mean for 12 other businesses? 496 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,720 Like, what does that mean for mean for the like steel industry 497 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,280 or like, are there other places that that sets a precedent that 498 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,880 is then taken advantage of and what comes down the line because 499 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,800 of it? And I think that's a really 500 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,640 important piece that isn't necessarily considered 501 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,520 sometimes. And I think as far as like what 502 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,160 people should watch for Congress, like, look, there's 503 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,160 going to be a handful of bipartisan bills that come out 504 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,320 in the next couple months that, you know, Republicans are trying 505 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,720 to push toward the finish line. I think Democrats, it's a mixed 506 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,720 bag because I think Democrats tend to vary on labour things 507 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,160 and it's a little bit of a more complicated discussion there. 508 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,880 I think Republicans see this as like a possible win, you know, 509 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,840 not to play politics, but that's essentially where it stands 510 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,760 right now. And, and so I think that because 511 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,320 of that, you see a little bit of a divide. 512 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,920 And I think, you know, it's a little bit of a hope and a 513 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,800 prayer. But I do think that I, I will 514 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,160 say this much like, I think there's too intangible progress 515 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,640 that because the House settlement has been passed, 516 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,560 because you have a, a structure in place that will help push 517 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:52,920 some kind of legislation forward. 518 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,880 Now, when that actually happens is a year from now. 519 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,320 Is it 2 years from now? Is it three years from now? 520 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,480 Like we'll see. But to your point, like there's 521 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,800 going to be challenges to it. And I think, like, the idea is 522 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,520 that, you know, the hope being that at some point lawmakers 523 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,880 will push something through that will help codify essentially 524 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,400 what's in the House settlement. Yeah. 525 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,920 And I think it's important for people to note that a, what 526 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,280 makes this such a complicated thing is the weird confluence of 527 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,400 like business and employment types that are at at play in 528 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,760 this. Like there is no system like 529 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,720 college athletics anywhere else in the world. 530 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,640 There, there are academies, there are lower level, you know, 531 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,880 professional leagues. The way that, and we talked 532 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,800 about this on another podcast, but you know, the way that youth 533 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,280 talent is developed and then made professional in say England 534 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,360 or France or Germany is not like what it looks like in the United 535 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,160 States. And the fact that you have in 536 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,960 many cases, like the vast majority are public educational 537 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,000 institutions that have lived under educational statutes, 538 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,880 title nines and educational statute that doesn't apply in 539 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,280 other areas because there's federal funding involved that, 540 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,720 you know, things like that. You're, but you've got this, 541 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,880 what is now, you know, a multibillion dollar business 542 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,920 going on. That's college athletics, which 543 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,440 is very important to the marketing and the alumni service 544 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,360 and everything of, of universities. 545 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,000 You're, you're really trying to create something that is going 546 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,640 to have ramifications in the larger labor market and the 547 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,880 larger industrial market. But it is a very unique case 548 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,000 with this particular type of business. 549 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,360 And you know, part and I think this is where when you say like 550 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,520 Republicans are broadly in favor of getting something done, it's 551 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,400 largely because, I mean, I think there is a recognition that 552 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,480 something has to happen to codify this system that is very 553 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,160 unique. Where Democrats have expressed, 554 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,240 I think, very reasonable concerns is the the legislation 555 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,600 that's being proposed gives all the power to the schools and to 556 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,320 the the NCAA as an organization, when really the debate for the 557 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,640 last 20 years has been why aren't we giving athletes the 558 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,000 right since they're the ones that are largely generating the 559 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,040 the on field or on court products that are allowing for 560 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,000 all the money to flow through? You know, why are coaches 561 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,360 getting all of the benefits financially when the players 562 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,400 largely were stuck in place? And it's like, well, here over 563 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,760 the last five years, you finally had some movement in favor of 564 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,040 players. And the reaction in the bill is, 565 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,240 well, we need to make sure that that doesn't get too big while 566 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,840 everybody else continues to earn money. 567 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,840 I'm I'm, I'm very much simplifying it, but that's 568 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,040 essentially the argument that's going to have to get sussed out 569 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,280 here. I don't know how that lands. 570 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:41,880 I don't think anybody really does. 571 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,720 But I will say that if you had to guess, especially since it's 572 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,560 not just a matter in Congress, the House of Representatives, 573 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,600 you can pass with a simple majority something in the 574 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,280 Senate, you got to have at least 60 votes in favor or it's not 575 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,320 going anywhere. The idea that you're going to 576 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,440 get Democrats to just follow along with whatever Republicans 577 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,040 come up with in this political environment is essentially a non 578 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,840 starter. That's where I think the 579 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,680 questions rise about how do we get to where college athletics 580 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,040 needs to get to to survive this process. 581 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,920 I think to your point of like, this is so different than 582 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,320 anywhere else in the world too. I think is a good one. 583 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,640 It's kind of a funny story, but like I did a TV spot for BBC 584 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,280 about the house settlement a couple months ago and trying to 585 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,760 explain the house settlement and why college sports are important 586 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,680 to Americans, to a British audience was like, I swear, I 587 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,120 must have been. It was like I was speaking 588 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,920 Swahili or something like that. It was just like, it's just it's 589 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,480 sort of incoherent on a little bit of a level, on some level. 590 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,960 And I think, you know, I used this example in the last couple 591 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,400 days and I think it bears merit of like why we're where we're 592 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,480 at, right with this with Congress and everything else. 593 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,200 It's like college sports is essentially a mom and pop 594 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,360 operation that has all of a sudden started, operated, 595 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,280 started making the profits of like Coca-Cola and meeting the 596 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,360 infrastructure of that, but has had made no effort to do so for 597 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,240 like 15 years. And so because of that, again, 598 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,720 you have like essentially a mom and pop operation that's 599 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,640 operating like as such, even though it's turned into a, you 600 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,400 know, Fortune 500 company or whatever it might be. 601 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,920 And so I think because of that, you're trying to sort of sort of 602 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,920 rectify that in real time. And I think that's why you have 603 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,400 to go to Congress. That's why you have to have 604 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,800 these changes as far as like how the how things operate. 605 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,080 And again, to your point, I think like the antitrust piece 606 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,160 is really interesting because like, if you're and you heard it 607 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,520 from a couple of Congress, Democratic Congress lawmakers 608 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,120 yesterday in this hearing was like, I don't love, and I'm 609 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040 paraphrasing, but essentially the idea was, I don't love the 610 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,920 fact that we're looking at a bill that essentially takes away 611 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,120 empowerment from athletes when we've spent 20 years trying to 612 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,320 give them more empowerment. And so I think that like on a 613 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,080 super basic level, like that's why you see opposition from the 614 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,840 Democratic side. And I think there's that 615 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,520 validity to that. And I think there's also 616 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,680 validity to the Republican side as well in terms of just wanting 617 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,600 to push something through. And then, you know, for lack of 618 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,480 a better term, like save college sports, like, listen, that that 619 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,280 does really well at the polls and on on Saturdays in the fall, 620 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,880 right? And so I think like, you know, 621 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,840 you add those two things together, It's why there's a 622 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,760 little bit of an impasse on Capitol Hill. 623 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,880 And I think it makes it, you know, demonstrates a little bit 624 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,000 of why this is such a complicated ask. 625 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,040 And it's again, like, this isn't a private the institution or 626 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,640 this isn't a private league, right? 627 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,840 Like this isn't the NFL going for an antitrust exemption or 628 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,400 the Major League Baseball or whatever, right? 629 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,360 Like this is a very different thing because you are inherently 630 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,360 tied to higher education, to the public schools, to, you know, 631 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,640 public money, to state funding, all of those things. 632 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,160 And I think that's what creates layers to this that I think 633 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,600 makes it increasingly complicated. 634 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,080 Yeah. And, and there's not really any 635 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,440 simple solutions. There's. 636 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,560 I mean, I do think there might be a route to coming up with a 637 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,080 solution that would be equitable. 638 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,720 But it would require for the first time, college athletics 639 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,720 leaders and the networks that are largely pushing them in this 640 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,080 direction and have for the last 15 years that the television 641 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,120 networks, I mean, to say we need to bring athletes to the table. 642 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,280 We need to have them as partners in this, not treat them like 643 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,480 opposition. I've but I've still yet to see 644 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,000 that from college athletics. I'm I'm not hearing that 645 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,480 language coming from Greg Sankey or I mean, we're not hearing 646 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,280 much of anything coming from Tony Petiti. 647 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,640 You know, like they're they're just there is still this very 648 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,480 kind of parochial attitude towards this is our money. 649 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,160 This is our sport, Not we need to share this with the athletes 650 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,360 in some way that is at least in some, you know, some cases 651 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,080 equitable and takes into account the fact that these are results. 652 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,720 So I do, I am very curious to see how that goes and I'm very 653 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,800 curious to see if they can actually get something passed 654 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,080 without acknowledging that and bringing those people to the 655 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,560 table in a meaningful manner. I think it's been one of the big 656 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,120 question points about this entire process since the Niall 657 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,920 doors were thrown open four years ago. 658 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,320 Yeah, you're exactly right. And like, look, unionization is 659 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,400 complicated no matter what business you're in, right? 660 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,080 Like in college sports, it's really complicated because 661 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,920 you're talking about essentially 18 to 22 year olds that are, you 662 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,800 know, shifting in and out every other year. 663 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,840 And I think there's a lot of sort of transients to it. 664 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,800 And I think because of that, it's hard to create a really 665 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,560 strong union, whereas like, for example, like you think about, 666 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,920 you know, look like, believe me, when I was 18 or 19 or 20, like 667 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,120 I probably shouldn't have been running a union for people. 668 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,680 And I'm even at 28, I probably shouldn't be either. 669 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,640 So, you know, I say that to say like you, whereas you look at 670 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,480 like the NFL, for example, where you've got like folks that are, 671 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,640 you know, in their mid 30s or, you know, more senior or 672 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,800 whatever it might be, where you have infrastructure to be able 673 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,240 to do this and represent those parties in a way that I think is 674 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,560 a little bit different. And I don't say that to 675 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,360 underestimate college athletes. Like, look, they're really 676 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,520 impressive kids and the kids are way ahead of where I am. 677 00:33:53,520 --> 00:34:02,200 What together it makes it really hard to create a structure where 678 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,720 like, say, a college football players union would be really 679 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,480 strong and have an ability to to collectively bargain. 680 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:14,159 And I think that's on some level why you see Congress pushing 681 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:15,960 towards some kind of special exemption. 682 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,560 That's why you see administrators push it wanting 683 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,040 some kind of special exemption because again, like, it's just 684 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,639 it, it's just like an inherently complicated thing, like, right. 685 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,880 Like it's not literally the same thing, but like, imagine trying 686 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,040 to create a union for like high school football players. 687 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,159 Like we're kind of just talking about like one step above that. 688 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,239 And I think that that's again, like why that makes this so hard 689 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,840 and so complicated. And not to mention you've got 690 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,239 like totally different labor laws state to state, right? 691 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,120 Like you've got right to work states, you've got things like 692 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,800 that. And I think that creates a 693 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,639 problem now, again, like because you have an antitrust exemption 694 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,719 on some level because in say, for example, like the NFL, 695 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,239 right, like the Dolphins and the 49ers don't play by different 696 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,120 salary cap rules because they're in California and Florida, which 697 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,320 is essentially what we're doing right now in college athletics. 698 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,640 But where every state has different laws and it's just 699 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,040 it's just, you know, flawed. But I think that because of 700 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,920 that, it creates an issue of like, how do you collectively 701 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,400 bargain and how can you create a union? 702 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,520 How can you create representation for athletes to 703 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,680 have a voice in this that is also like not even palatable, 704 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,040 but you know, strong. And I think like has like some 705 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,680 teeth to it. And I think that's what where 706 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,560 this becomes really complicated. Well, it's funny because I 707 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,280 again, I think, you know, there's some fundamental 708 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,600 misconceptions even about how this works at the professional 709 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,080 level. Like, you know, the NF LS 710 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,800 antitrust exemption is about broadcast rights. 711 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:35,360 It's not about labor, you know, and, and that that's a big 712 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,440 distinction. I mean, it still affects the 713 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,080 money. But, you know, again, what I 714 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,880 what we try to bring across on the show is the NFL, Major 715 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,240 League Baseball, all these entities, these are franchises, 716 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,680 They are essentially like branch offices of a larger business. 717 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,360 Even though they have, you know, the teams, the franchises have 718 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,920 their own identity. They have their own uniforms, 719 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,440 they have their own Staffs, but they have to abide by the larger 720 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,320 rules. And you can't just start an NFL 721 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,960 team, you know, and, and get into the league. 722 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,320 You have to buy into the league and they have to want you. 723 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,480 You know, I mean, this is what I mean. 724 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,240 Mark Cuban likely would have started his own NFL team by this 725 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:12,640 point if he could just start one up. 726 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:15,800 The other thing that I think is worth noting, it's interesting 727 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,000 on the union front, this is the last thing I'll say on this. 728 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,600 Like, you're right in that the transient nature of college 729 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,280 sports and college athletes does make it difficult. 730 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,280 But it's important to note the NFL, the average length of a 731 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,000 career in the NFL is about 3 years. 50% of the people that 732 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,920 play in the NFL have three years or less of service in the NFL. 733 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,760 And then, you know, there, there's a lot of downstream 734 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,680 things that happen as a result of that. 735 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,240 But again, yes, you do have that older group of veteran players, 736 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,360 but it one of the arguments you see in the NFL, you see it in 737 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,720 the NBA, it's like because you get these older players that 738 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,600 stick around longer, most of the labor laws are actually skewed 739 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,640 towards the players that are in it longer. 740 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,360 And so it's not exactly a fair system there either. 741 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,280 It's just that at least there's some level of representation 742 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,120 that you can claim within it. So it's, it is a very 743 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,480 complicated set of circumstances and I'm just very fascinated to 744 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,040 see how all of it plays out in terms of what finally gets 745 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,560 decided because it's it again, it's likely going to irritate 746 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,960 some groups very significantly. It's very hard, though, under 747 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,600 the current settings of things to guarantee that everybody's 748 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,040 going to get what they want and what they need in order to move 749 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,680 forward. And that's where, you know, 750 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,360 while I understand the optimism about what's occurred up to this 751 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,080 point, it still feels like we're only in like the third inning of 752 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,280 a nine inning game when it comes to what college sports from a 753 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,480 business perspective will ultimately look like. 754 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,640 No, I think that's spot on. And actually someone, an 755 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,200 administrator made that analogy with me. 756 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,080 A couple, I think, I can't remember who's an administrator, 757 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,520 commissioner, but one of the two made it, made it. 758 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,200 That analogy with me a couple weeks ago was like, essentially 759 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,560 like, hey, we're in like we're like 25% through the iteration 760 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,640 of whatever the hell this becomes in 5-10 years, whatever, 761 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,400 right? And so I think like, because of 762 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,440 that, like we're, there's still going to be changes. 763 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,920 And I think that like, I get it for a lot of folks, they, they 764 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,880 want to, you know, roll their eyes and want this to move on 765 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,080 and get to the point at the end. And I, and I get that like it's 766 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,800 really hard. And I do think like, actually, 767 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,000 frankly, like I do think fans are getting a little like 768 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,840 disenfranchised, if you want to call it that, I guess on some 769 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,600 level because of all the changes and transients and everything 770 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,840 else. And I think that's really hard. 771 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,120 And I think that like, we take fruit, did we take advantage, 772 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,400 we're take for granted, I should say, you know, the support and 773 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,160 the fan, the fan support that comes with college athletics on 774 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,960 some level through all of this. And you see it with the CFP 775 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,680 discussions and what that goes into that. 776 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,480 And that's a whole other probably 3 1/2 hour podcast. 777 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,400 But but I think like because of that, it becomes a hard thing to 778 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,480 for people to track and follow. But I think it is important to 779 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,600 note that like we're still early in this and like there's going 780 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,120 to be more change. And I think if you go into it 781 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,240 knowing that there's going to be more change, that's it's a 782 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:54,160 helpful lens I think. Yeah, it's, yeah, the College 783 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,280 Football Playoff thing. We that's another podcast we 784 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,480 will get into. But if it's a great example of 785 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,920 even how college sports is not unified, you know that that 786 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,560 there's again, it it is it is a group of warring tribes that 787 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,800 have decided to come together on this one thing. 788 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,320 That's an existential threat, but you've also got power plays 789 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,200 going on, you know, by certain conferences to try to influence 790 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,200 other aspects of the system. And yet it all ties in together 791 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,440 because it all ultimately affects the revenue. 792 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:33,720 What gets lost in the shuffle is fan fatigue and the the rapid 793 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:36,960 changes that have occurred over the last 10 years, basically in 794 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,240 the college sports space, and the feeling increasingly that 795 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,440 nobody's actually got their hand on the wheel. 796 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,480 Or worse, multiple people have their hand on the wheel and they 797 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,440 keep changing the direction of the boat. 798 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,840 And you worry you're going to like run off of the waterfall at 799 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,040 some point with the with the way that things are going. 800 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,520 Because if you lose sight of the audience, you do eventually kind 801 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,000 of lose control of where the business heads. 802 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:01,800 Yeah. And I think that's right. 803 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,800 And I think like that's why you see with a lot of athletic 804 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,880 departments that are shifting their thinking toward more like 805 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,680 different business practices of like trying to generate more 806 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,960 revenue. Like it's a hard sell for a lot 807 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,440 of people and it becomes a harder thing to do because 808 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,600 you're pushing people out on some level, you're pricing 809 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,240 people out. And and I think like that's a 810 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:21,120 really hard thing. You know, I was up in Knoxville 811 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,840 a few weeks ago and I was talking to Danny White there AD 812 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,560 at the AD at Tennessee a few days ago. 813 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,520 And one of the things that Danny was talking about and sort of 814 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,880 explaining is sort of how Tennessee has driven more 815 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,400 revenue. And I mean, they've literally 816 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,840 doubled their athletic department budget in four years. 817 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,800 Like they went from 140 million to $280 million in four years. 818 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,680 And that is a massive turn. Like that's not just shaking the 819 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,960 couch cushions. And the way they did that 820 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,200 essentially was by reseeding Nealon Stadium and reseeding the 821 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,560 basketball arena as well. And they did it because their 822 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,280 old system was really antiquated and had people who are basically 823 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,200 paying. You had some people who are 824 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,480 sitting next to each other, that one person paying 5 grand for 825 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,600 their season tickets and one person paying 500. 826 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,240 And they had to standardize it. But by doing that, like that's a 827 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,040 really hard process because at some point you're going to 828 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,080 alienate people because you're going to push people out and 829 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,800 you're going to charge people a hell of a lot more than what 830 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,320 they were making, what they were paying for tickets previously. 831 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,520 And so again, like Tennessee ends up driving a ton more 832 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,800 revenue because of that. And it's a huge change. 833 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,200 But at the same time, it's also it's also, how do you marry that 834 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,080 with keeping a fan base alive and keeping a a group that's 835 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,520 really excited? And I think, you know, at a 836 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,200 place like that, people were always going to buy football 837 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,000 season tickets. Like you can play that game a 838 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,120 little bit more, play that game a little bit with Indiana 839 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,360 basketball, similar thing, right? 840 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,080 Like people are going to buy tickets, generally speaking. 841 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,640 And but I think like, that's where fans I think get caught in 842 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,400 the crosshairs. And I think that's a really hard 843 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,400 place for a lot of fans. And I and I sympathize with a 844 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,160 lot of people who kind of throw up their arms and they're just 845 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,800 like, yeah, Nope, I'm good. Yeah, it's, it's going to be, 846 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,760 it's, it's rough. It's a it's a different world 847 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,800 out there right now. And obviously, yeah, I think 848 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,920 fans rightfully feel like they are the last ones to know or be 849 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,720 informed or or have any input in anything and that that is a 850 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,400 shame. But these are the growing pains 851 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,480 I think of as and you alluded to this earlier, a mom and pop 852 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,320 operation in terms of like it was very local, it was very 853 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,440 regional and then the money got involved and now you're trying 854 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,360 to retrofit a bunch of things that probably should have 855 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,800 happened 30 years ago. And you can point the finger 856 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,440 right at the schools in the NC double AI mean Charlie Baker 857 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:29,680 said this essentially, although I the the the irony of the NCAA 858 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,880 president saying, you know, colleges didn't adapt. 859 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,600 It's like, wow, like what it's I wonder, I wonder why? 860 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,720 I wonder why that was. Anyway, Ben, we've had so many 861 00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,520 technical issues with this. I want to end on a high note, 862 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,520 but we appreciate you coming on and talking through all of this. 863 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,520 And I'm sure we'll have you on again. 864 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,200 We got to talk CFP stuff whenever that lands and we got 865 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,880 to talk to IU football at some point down the line here as they 866 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,240 gear up for this next season. So I appreciate you joining us 867 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:00,800 here on the show. Anytime. 868 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,000 No, this was good. I brought my IDs coffee mug out 869 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,240 just for it. So this was, I got it planned. 870 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,160 I planned ahead a little bit. Despite our technical 871 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,280 difficulties, we made it work. This was this was great. 872 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,640 Anytime, I'm always happy to do it. 873 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,720 Then that is that is perfect. Well, Ben Portnoy from Sports 874 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:15,320 Business Journal, join us here on the show. 875 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,880 Thank you and thanks to all you folks catching up with us here 876 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,480 on Crimson Cast. We'll be back more coming up 877 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,960 this upcoming week, including hopefully an IU football 878 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,640 recruiting update. There's a lot going on with IU 879 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,200 football anyway, catch you folks on the flip side, stay never 880 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,280 daunted. So everybody.