You're listening to the back home network, presented by home
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joining. You here it is the 10th of
November and if you live anywhere in the Midwest This was
the last day of autumn as Winters about to start in
Earnest tomorrow. The temperature about to crash
through the floor, in the Midwest and things are gonna get
pretty cold this weekend. We will miss you, warm weather,
and we look forward to your return sometime in April.
Most likely we're going to talk about is football a little bit
here. It's not a whole lot to say, but
we try to do a preview podcast on a regular basis for this
football. Grab and we're going to keep
doing it through the rest of the season.
That's the least that we can do for you.
Folks out there that listen in. So I appreciate you all
listening in. It's always good to have you
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advantage of it. So Indiana in action, this
weekend, as they take on Ohio State, it has been a long time
since Indiana even came, you know, like got a point off of
Ohio State in terms of soccer. Parlance, I guess you would say
is Deanna the last time they didn't lose to Ohio.
State was 1990 when they tied. Oh hi.
Yo, State and then they'd won the two previous games before
that. But this is not a series, that's
really been in any way shape, or form.
A good thing for Indiana, one of the longest losing streaks, in a
power five conference, maybe the longest at this point, as
Indiana has just gotten beaten down consistently by Ohio State
over the course of time. And it really doesn't look like
that's going to change this weekend as the Hoosiers go in.
I'm checking the line right now. This is up-to-date.
They are The point Underdog in this game, 40 40.
And the line on this game is only 59, which I think is
actually the funnier of the two things related to this game.
You know, because it essentially means that Vegas thinks Indiana
is going to lose by at least 40 points and Indiana in that.
Mix is not going to score any more than 19 points in the game
and that Those both seem like pretty pretty likely outcomes
given that Indiana is only averaging about 21, 22 points
per game. So far this season only one
point six percent chance of Victory.
According to fpi the numbers, do not look good and Indiana.
At the end of the day is one of those programs that, you know,
it felt like for a moment, they had gotten within touching
distance of me, know, maybe being able to spring it upset at
some point against Ohio State and that Looks like it's about
as far away from reality as humanly possible.
At this point is one of those things I always bring up when I
talk about Indiana and I talked about the, the frustration of
what's happened with Indiana football, over the course of
time, I've got this spreadsheet, which I would be happy to send
you access to if anybody wants to request it.
And the title of the spreadsheet is Indiana football, history
makes you cry. And it's it's a Log of a bunch
of different things about IU football that I had to write
down because I wouldn't have believed it.
And probably if I told other people would, they would not
have believed it, unless I had had kind of, you know, Visual
Evidence that I'd written down that highlighted some of the
Ridiculousness. And one of the things that I
find ridiculous is, if you look at Indiana versus Michigan and
Indiana versus Ohio State, the number of times that Indiana has
beaten either of those programs, since the late 80s is zero
except well, it's one now with Michigan.
They did beat Michigan in 2020, but, you know, that was the
first time that Indiana had beaten Michigan since 1988, and
it was only the second time that Indiana had beaten Michigan,
since 1967. And, and that is crazy.
When you think about Michigan, because Michigan has actually
been beaten a lot by other teams in the conference.
Not normal to just get beaten year after year.
After year, even by a team that is significantly above you in
the standings. And this is always what I've
found frustrating about IU is like, you think about taking
Michigan as an example? And I have didn't update.
I haven't updated this sheet since the 20/20 season, but from
1987 to 2020, the following teams beat Michigan, the
following number of times, Ohio state had beaten them, 21, and a
half, Five times, they there was a tie in one of those Michigan
state has beaten them. 14 times. I would beaten them eight and a
half times. Penn State had beaten them.
Nine, Wisconsin, had beaten them seven.
Illinois had beaten them, four and a half times Northwestern
and Purdue at both, beaten them. Four times Minnesota had beaten
them twice, Nebraska had beaten them twice, Maryland, beaten
them once, and Rutgers had beaten them once, and Indiana
had beaten them 0 times during that time period.
That is like, not just wild, but it's really frustrating when you
Think about it, because it just highlights that of all the
program, like even Rutgers even Maryland even Minnesota even
Northwestern has been able to scalp Michigan at least once or
twice, but not Indiana. And then you look at Ohio State
and again, I haven't updated this since the 20/20 season,
although Ohio State's barely lost anybody in the conference
during that time. But just going off that stretch
of time from the 89 season, which was the year after the
last time, Indiana, beat Ohio State until the 2020 season and
you can add a couple more to this if you want.
You know how state has lost less to other teams in the
conference? But You look at it Michigan's,
beaten them, 11 and a half times in that span Penn State's beaten
them. Eight times, Illinois, seven
times, Wisconsin, six-and-a-half.
Michigan State, five Purdue five, Iowa, three, Minnesota,
Nebraska Northwestern, one each Indiana, one half of a game that
was that that tie in 1990 and then Maryland and Rutgers have
not beaten them although they get a little asterisk there
because they hadn't been the conference that long.
So you're talking about essentially for I If you just
bump that forward a little bit, the start of the 1991 season.
You don't lose a lot, you lose a couple of Illinois wins and you
lose a couple of Michigan wins, but all the rest of the numbers
that I quoted you are the same and it's like, at some point
Indiana needs to be able to beat in Ohio State or be to Michigan.
It is, it is not. If you look at every other team
in the conference, including the historically, poor teams in the
conference, like the northwestern's, like the
Minnesota's. Like the Purdue's Indiana has
not been able to, you know, get even one or two positive
outcomes against Ohio State and all those other programs have
and that is really frustrating. And that is absolutely very much
likely to continue as we go into the game this weekend.
And we got some questions from the folks on Twitter.
And while Twitter is still alive.
I figured we would answer those questions.
So I'm going to take these in no particular order.
We had several questions from a variety of different people.
Many of them, expressing concern.
Taylor Layman asked, how are you still living?
I honestly don't know. You know, someone asked me a
similar sort of question and it was, what was it was more of a
statement. This was from Dominator.
I don't know how you continue to devote time to football
coverage, but since you do, I will listen and suffer along
side. You, thank you Dominator.
You know, it's, it's almost it's an unhealthy.
Cathy relationship, this, this podcast, and I you football, but
it's also kind of a morbid Fascination at this point
because it's, as we've talked about on a lot of the post game
podcasts, it's you go through all of the Hat, the the gradual
slow disappointments of the early and mid 2010.
And you see the program kind of getting up to a point where it
feels like it's competitive. Finally.
And you're like, wow. This is what I've always wanted.
This is what, you know, my parents had and I had when I was
a kid like a program that was quasi competitive in the
conference, and then now like this year last year, you watch
the team and it's just like you're almost, it's like that
Doc Rivers GIF where he's just kind of staring at the court
with his mouth open. That's essentially how I think
we feel here at Crimson cast whenever we're watching this I
you football team play because it's just it's almost
inconceivable how bad they've looked over the course of the
last two seasons given what we had seen the previous six or
seven. So yeah, it's it's a bit rough
but what are you going to do about it?
At this point? We had a good bunch of questions
about the about the underdog question.
Pat Gilchrist asked, how are we a big 10 team and forty one
point underdogs who peroxy acid in the past 10 years has any big
10 team been a 41-point underdog?
That's a good. I don't have the answer to that.
I tried to look this up. And I'm still in the process of
searching for it. I am sure that Rutgers at some
point in the Chris Ash era was a 41-point underdog probably to
Ohio State. So this seems like a huge number
and it is a huge number and it is frankly.
It's embarrassing that I you footballs kind of devolved to
the point it just in a couple of Seasons where they would be a
seven touchdown Underdog basically or six touchdown
Underdog. Sorry.
I guess seven touchdowns. If you don't kick any extra
points, the that they would be that big of an underdog to any
team. Let alone a team in their
conference. We're not talking Alabama and
granted Ohio State's kind of in that strata but I just it
highlights a bunch of problems and it highlights you know,
obviously a lack of talent development, lack of coaching
Acumen lock of of luck, lack of a bunch of different things.
And You know, it's it's the one thing I will say is that I don't
know that it's necessarily one of those situations where I you
is going to lose by that many points because I mean IU has
certainly lost by that many points but it feels like the the
absolute blowouts are kind of reserved for when Indiana plays
Wisconsin. You know I there have been some
blowout certainly when it comes to Indiana Ohio State and You
know, you'll all you have to do is go back and look at the game
in 2021, you know, that was a 40.
What 47 Point loss, that Indiana suffered forty one point loss in
2019, you know, but it feet like you just see 40 pointer, 41,
Point, Underdog, and it feels inconceivable and there was a
long stretch. There were Indiana wasn't losing
by that much. Now, they lost by 28 in 2013,
they lost by 15 and 2014 they lost by Seven in 2015 they lost
I think by 21 in 2016 they lost by 28 in 2017, these don't sound
great now that I read them but that's that's very Deanna's and
I just I think it'll land more on the heavy side and look I
mean it there are worse lines out there.
There aren't a whole lot of worse lines at this point, you
know, but but Indiana is definitely I think a poor value
and it does feel like Whatever shine Indiana had maintained in
the eyes of the betting public in the aftermath of the 2020.
Season has completely gone because if you, those of you who
wager and follow lines know that last year, Indiana, even though
it was clear that they were completely adrift by about this
point in the season was still getting quite a bit of respect
from Vegas, and that is absolutely gone at this point
and can't really blame them. I mean, you Indiana goes into
this game with essentially an offense that can't move.
All a quarterback that may or may not have been injured and
may or may not have the confidence of the coach, a
defense that really has struggled in a lot of key
moments and a lot of injuries on top of that involving, some of
their best players. Cam Jones, still out, probably
out for the rest of the season. If you read the tea leaves,
camper out for the rest of the season.
You know, you've lost Matthew Bedford.
That happened very early obviously, and yeah, just not
ideal by any means. Let's see.
A lot of other questions that I wanted to get to Derek Fields.
The the 2023 class is down significantly compared to the
last few years. The talk about the recruiting
class. When you compare that with the
possibility of promising players, going into the portal,
just how far can the Hoosier sink next season if Allen's
buyout was half of what it is. Now would Alan be fired.
So, this is where I have to, first of all, you know, Jump on
the recruits side of things. Now, right now if you take the
24/7 Sports composite which you should Indiana is ranked 84th
overall in terms of recruiting class, going into this upcoming
year, and that's certainly not good.
However, there's a caveat with that that you have to keep in
mind and this is something that I've heard over and over again,
from Zach, Osterman. And from folks that have covered
recruiting more closer than I have.
Of which is you kind of have to take the recruiting numbers with
a grain of salt. Because so much of the numbers
in the rankings are tied to the total number of recruits that
are coming in, are right now. Indiana, only has nine players
signed now that's not because Indiana can't like, you know,
isn't isn't competitive for other players, but it's largely
because there are so many players on this Indiana roster
that may not leave. Their may not be scholarships
available because of the uncertainty of David years of
Eligibility being granted. And you know, you look at this
Indiana roster and right now it looks like a roster that's going
to have a lot of guys leave. But realistically that may not
be the case because the players that would normally matriculate
due to graduation, don't have to, and may decide to come back
and play again. And this was something we talked
about in the offseason and leading into this year where it
was, you know? I mean, if things go the way you
That Tom Allen had hoped they would go, there was a real
chance that they'd have essentially the same roster for
a couple of years and, you know, that might actually allow them
to build around that same core and if they could pull off a
couple of surprise victories and put themselves in a good
situation this year, maybe that leads to a group that's able to
play Better Together. Be just because they are used to
each other and you've got a bunch of guys who have played A
fifth or in some cases. A 6-year right?
Well, maybe not played, but at least been in college football
for that long. Now, that looks a lot worse.
When you think about the fact that Indiana is in a tailspin,
that's now lasted almost two full seasons, and you're
probably not adding a whole lot. You may get transfers and this
was something that was brought up in the question.
You may have a lot of guys in the portal.
You may have guys just leave that happened to some degree
last year, but, you know, and that's a problem in and of
itself, just because when you look at the players that I you
brought in through the portal, to replace those players.
They haven't really panned out to a large degree.
There have been some small highlights, certainly a camper
was a great find and, you know, I think that Connor basil, like,
overall has been a plus even if he's had Issues behind the
offensive line but a lot of the the transfers that Indiana
brought in, just haven't really impressed.
And yeah, yeah, it's a real problem and it's a real concern
and it's hard to Envision things.
I just would be cautious. If I were, you know, a fan and
trying to figure out how to evaluate what's going on with
this team. Don't Focus too much on the
overall recruit ranking because it was always going to be pretty
low this year because of the lack of outflux of players.
Yeah. And who and what they were going
to be trying to recruit. So all that said to answer the
rest of Derek's question. How far can the Hoosiers sink
next year? I mean, look, there are 12 games
in the season. I mean, I look at, I find it
hard to believe that Indiana would at this stage.
You know, I mean it right where they've been at the last couple
of years last year. And now this year does kind of
feel like They might end up being barring a huge turnaround
and I don't know where that huge turnaround would come from
because that was what was supposed to happen this year and
then huge is relative. We're talking about like five
wins as opposed to two and that is, you know, they looks like
they may just wind up with 3 instead of 2 which is not a huge
turnaround as far as the last question of Alan's by.
It was half of where there's now what he be fired.
I mean, if it's half a weird, isn't it still be like 13
million dollars, you know? I mean it's still a A big, big
number and so no, I think here's the thing and I know what we get
a lot of questions, a lot of comments about Alan, you know,
should Allen be fired? You know, the athletic
department has to do something in quotes, things like that.
And look I'm I am as frustrated as anybody with the state of IU
football and the sudden lack of direction of the program, I do
think that There's a level of Grace and a level of cushion
that going to back to back bowls and and you know, being ranked
in the top 15 at IU is going to provide even if there was not
the huge buyout. I think that Alan would probably
get one more year regardless to get the ship right.
It now he may get two more years that's entirely possible.
But you know I just have a hard time believing even with this
season and last season back. Back.
I have a hard time, envisioning, a scenario given what happened,
the previous two years, where there would be a change made
this offseason. And that's, I could be wrong.
It's a kind of an unknowable scenario but that's how I feel
about it at this point. Some other questions good
questions there that by Derek I appreciated, Let's see.
We had a question about Kathy Amos asked about yesterday, was
you national Signing Day in college sports?
Is that different for football? And I missed the football
signees. I think it's important.
If you saw the national Signing Day, you can see an eiu football
signings. Really what's going on?
Remind you that football has its own separate rules because it's
basically different from the rest of the ncaa's sports and
their National societies February 1st.
So that's when you would just wait, then that's when you'll
see all of the All signage signings happen, Tyler helmet.
Ask could you talk about soccer, please?
At least a little the answer is. Yes, I will talk about soccer a
little bit soccer, men's soccer, still alive in the Big Ten
Tournament big win for the Hoosiers, huge win, really at
Maryland. That was, I hope a game if you
get a chance to watch that game live, if they replay it on BTN,
watch it. Even if you're not a huge soccer
fan, it's really entertaining game.
Indiana with two tremendous goals in the first half, half
and then kind of had to white-knuckle it through the
second half as Maryland, who is a very talented team.
Made a big comeback scored a goal, almost scored another goal
to tie it up, but Indiana was able to hold him off and
basically due to Maryland, what Marilyn did to Indiana a couple
of weeks ago at Bill Armstrong Stadium, the Hoosiers in that
game had Maryland. They scored in the first half.
They held him for almost the whole second half and then
Maryland Nick to gold at the very end and that was the
difference between Indiana. Getting a share of the Big Ten
regular season title. And becoming the fourth seat in
the Big Ten Tournament, which is what they ended up being with
with that draw. So Indiana.
You know, they gain some measure of Revenge on Maryland, who's
really become their primary foil in the conference and a very
gratifying win for toggle these guys.
Not just because Maryland is an insanely annoying collection of
players. I mean you talk about a group,
one of the reasons I like those of you didn't watch the game to
go back and watch it if you want to watch.
Watch a sports team, that becomes almost instantly like
ready-made to hate, just by their actions and their conduct
watch that. Maryland soccer team.
I mean, they are very talented, no question.
But that is the type of Team the way that they play that when
soccer players or Socrates get kind of a bad reputation for the
dark arts and as they would suck, all it in the Premier
League shit. How Zuri?
That's a The perfect example team for that kind of thing.
They really behaved like numbskulls throughout the entire
thing and really, you know, credits Indiana for keeping
their head and shoulders about them and figuring out a way to
come up with a victory in a really hostile environment.
So, the Hoosiers on the road, this Saturday, excuse me, this
Sunday at noon, they will be taking on Rutgers who kind of
surprised everybody. I think by finishing second in
the conference standings, they knock off.
Ohio State which was a bit of a surprise and they end up posting
their first Big Ten Tournament title game, there's going to be
a fascinating game, Rutgers really likes to get up and down
the pitch. Indiana a little more controlled
and I think a little more disciplined and Indiana's been
in these situations before this is I believe they're their
fourth or fifth consecutive Big Ten, Tournament title game and I
like their chances in this one just because I think they'll
know how to Until Rutgers in this contest.
So should be a fascinating game that game will be on BTN.
I would highly recommend watching it the Hoosiers.
Always fun to watch at this time of year in soccer.
Let's see some other comments and questions that I wanted to
address here where I don't want to go too long in this preview
podcast. We had a couple of questions.
I you hype, man, do we win any more games?
I don't think so. I think at this point, look at
the remaining schedule, you're not going to beat Ohio State.
I ate all the people who thought Michigan state was going to be a
game Indiana's going to pick up. It's like you really need to
watch Michigan State like that is a mess of a team but that is
a talented team still and if you had any questions about them
they went into Illinois and pretty much handle the Illini
who are still the odds-on favorite to be the Big Ten, West
champions and go to the Big Ten title game.
That's what I'm talking about, particularly irksome things that
would qualify there and then you play Purdue and it approves.
Great this year but Purdue is significantly better than
Indiana. And I don't see how this year's
Purdue Indiana game will be a whole lot different than last
year's. Purdue, Indiana game, where
Indiana, just can't move the ball.
Indiana can't block Indiana, can't run the ball.
They can't throw the ball and on even if the defense turns into
some kind of a Herculean effort, I mean this is not 2019.
You don't have Peyton Ramsey and a quasi functional offensive
line and and a good running back to try to move the ball down the
field. And, you know, produce had their
stumbles Purdue has, I think really under achieved relative
to what their expectation should have been at the start of the
year but produce not awful and Indiana's awful at this point.
So now I think the winning is over in fact I'll be surprised
frankly with the remaining teams on the schedule.
If Indiana gets within 20 points of any of those teams and I hate
saying that but I would be really surprised if Indiana is
actually Additive in any of these games.
Let's see. We also had a question about We
had a bunch of basketball questions, guys.
I'm not asking and answering basketball questions in this
podcast. I'm sorry, I'll ask I'll answer
soccer questions, but I won't answer basketball questions.
We will have more basketball talk coming up soon.
We'll have another podcast probably.
Well, I mean, you may be listening to this on Friday
because we're going to release this after the Bethune-Cookman
game, but we might have a basketball update podcast.
Now that we've seen the Hoosiers a couple of times, we did have a
question from Daddy, who's your ex If someone gave you the keys
to the kingdom, how would you go about writing the ship that is
IU football? If you could wave the magic
wand, to do, whatever you want to do, with the University
athletic department program level.
What would you do? Well, I mean it just I'll say
this I think at this point you have to make another facilities
upgrade. Just as a matter of course I
mean you don't have to go the full Northwestern and build you
know, some new gleaming Stadium. I think actually the Memorial
Stadium Renovations have been fine given What Memorial Stadium
is but you know, certainly new practice facility.
I think at this point, you know, I think there was an argument
against it 10 years ago, there's not really an argument now and
that would give you the opportunity to further, expand
your academic and athletic facilities in a way.
That's that would be helpful moving forward.
Mellencamp is what close to, what, 30 years old now.
And you know, that's just Getting, it's not been in great
shape for a while in terms of how it compares to other
facilities elsewhere. I do think that that would be a
good starting point, you know, look, I think I've always said
the following, I think the big problem that I you football has,
is that it is a very tough job. It's not an impossible job.
And I think a lot of times people conflate very difficult
with impossible because if you look around college football,
the right coach can Can win at any power 5 school with, you
know, resources and recruiting environments that are worse than
Indiana's, you know. And I think I've talked about
this on one of the earlier podcasts, if Mike Leach can win
at Washington state. If you know, you can have a
coach go in and win at Kansas State, you know, in the, from
where they were in the 90s if you can, if James Franklin can
go win at Vanderbilt. If I mean, there are programs
out Are that you would look at their resources and look at what
they've got at their disposal and you compare it to Indiana
and it's like even within Indiana's place in the Big Ten.
Indiana should not be this impossible to win at.
And I think part of the problem is, you really have to get a lot
of things going for the first time, in a long time, at
Indiana, if you're going to be successful, and I think we're
Indiana, makes mistakes is in constantly hiring head coaches.
That either haven't got a lot of experience.
The power 5 level or are in their first coaching job or are
bad. Cultural Fitz.
And I think honestly, you could categorize almost every coach
that Indiana's hired since Bill. Mallory in one of those
categories can Cameron was, you know he loved I you and he
seemed like an up-and-coming guy but you can't stick a guy who's
never been even a coordinator in the role of Indiana head coach,
because it's too hard. To do what you have to do as
Indiana head coach with recruiting with getting alumni
fired up with getting donors. You expecting somebody to do
that and know how to relate to players and get them fired up
and be able to coach them up really well.
It's it doesn't really work that way.
You know, you look at Jerry dinardo, bad cultural fit.
And and honestly, a guy that got hired at a time when the
athletic department, who's in complete shambles in the, you
didn't even have an athletic director for two of the years,
or a year and a year and a half of the year.
He was here Kepner I think was a good hire.
I'm always curious how Heppner the how that experiment would
have gone long term. It was clear, Heppner built
something in a short period of time but that's a guy that had
experience running a program. He had he had recruited and
developed a lot of talent. Bill Lynch was not that guy.
They'll Lynch was. He had had head coaching
experience but not at this Level.
Kevin Wilson is probably the second best higher of this.
Group and Kevin Wilson, hadn't been a head coach but at least
Kevin Wilson, understood what it was like to coach Eddie big-time
program and a Big Ten program separately.
And we do Wilson, certainly made a lot of mistakes.
Certainly was not a guy that a lot of people got along with, in
terms of having to work with them on a day-to-day basis.
But built an infrastructure that was had gotten Indiana up to a
point where it was going to be more and more successful.
And I think with Tom Allen what you're seeing is a lot of the
same problems that I just highlighted.
You know, a guy who hadn't have been a head coach had not really
been a defense. Had been a defensive coordinator
for what to a year, two years. Maybe three.
I for, I don't know how many years of DC, he was at South
Florida, but I can't remember at least off the top of my head.
But I just think this is the type of program where you have
to hire somebody with a lot of experience, someone who's not
going to be fazed by the cultural realities of To change
a bunch of things around and get people who aren't that.
Excited about a product excited. It can be done.
I mean, Tom Allen was great at getting people excited and he's
still here and still gets people excited.
Despite the fact that we don't see a lot coming out of Tom
Allen. Right now, in terms of
long-term, construction of the program, long-term development
of players like that should, that's the piece that's missing.
And that's what you have to have.
So you have to find a guy who can can develop and coach That
is at a 2 Star, 3 star, you know, level like Wisconsin does,
like Iowa does. That's how you're gonna.
That's, that's where your meal tickets going to come from.
It's not going to come from Just Energy or just scheme.
And that I think really requires infrastructure being built and
you have to have a person who knows what that looks like, and
knows how to work in it in order for it to be successful.
So that would be my, it's not even a magic wand.
There is no magic wand. The magic Is making the right
higher and making it. Somebody who isn't having to
learn how to be a head coach while also having to learn how
to be a head coach at Indiana for football, because one of
those jobs is hard enough. The second job is probably
historically the hardest thing to do in major college football.
So, anyway, that's going to wrap it up.
My score prediction for this week.
I think the weather will play a weird role in this one and I
think Will actually cause Ohio State to not score as many
points as one might think. I think they're still going to
handily win this one and I think Indiana is going to struggle to
move the ball. So I will say Ohio, State wins
this one by the score of 45 to 7 because Indiana will probably
score on their first drive because that's what they do and
but Ohio, and so, I would say does not cover I guess that
would be a small victory in this one, but they almost to do.
So, that'll wrap us up for the View podcast.
Be sure to stay tuned. As will have basketball
podcasting coming up very soon. We'll have our recap podcast for
this game. It may not go very long but
we'll have that coming up on Sunday for you and a surprise
podcast coming up next week, which I think many of you in the
Crimson cast audience will enjoy, will catch you folks on
the flip side? I'm gallon klaviyo.
Bring back the Bison. So long, everybody.