You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast.
GAIL and Clavy are joining you once again.
It's Friday the 4th of August, or as we will forever know it,
the day the PAC 12 died. As a lot has happened in the
last 72 hours in college sports. And many of you folks out there
have been clamoring for some podcasting on this because
that's what we do here at Crimson Cast.
And so who are we to deprive the people of what they want?
And that we brought our buddy Zach Singer back.
You know him from the last time we did a realignment podcast and
he was a very popular guest. Always a very popular guest.
Zach, good to have you back on the show.
How you doing? Good, slow Newsweek we.
We did a podcast 1213 months ago at most, and I didn't foresee
the things we thought could happen would all happen inside a
week. 13 months later, yeah, it was we, we we thought about, we
talked about all of those, like if you go back and listen, most
of those things that we talked about did indeed occur.
It just occurred all at once. It was not a long protracted
process and there was a lot of lying along the way.
There was a lot of, lot of, lot of purposeful misdirection, a
lot of people getting let around by the nose on X by unnamed
sources for negotiation purposes.
So we're going to dive into all that.
We obviously are going to cover what's happened with the not
official but clearly pending demise of the Pack Seven.
Now I guess it is. I think that's what they're at
and. Now as of 436 Eastern on August
4, 2023, they are currently actively.
Sitting at that number, yes, yes.
We're also going to talk, we're going to talk about all the
things that kind of led to this. We're also going to talk through
what are the next, if any, other dominoes that fall.
There's been a lot of noise from certain other parts of the
country that I feel like we need to dive into.
So we're going to tackle that as well.
Before we get to that just a reminder that here Crimson Cast
were part of the back home network and the back home
network is brought to you by Home Field apparel the place to
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All right, and. They have an excellent tshirt
for the 2023 national champions. I've not been on since that
happened, a basketball Louisiana State women that you're talking
about here. That's an irrelevant That
championship doesn't count. No, I've come with the men's
basketball program that has five national championships since the
war. Ah, the you can Huskies.
So the one that's the program that still can't find a
permanent conference, is that the one?
Well, we're in one. It's just different than.
Some of the four and a half million year in TV money, it's
it's just like making 65,000,000 a year.
If you just change the numbers around and chop one off at the
end, it's kind of similar that you know that it's it's a
rounding error, right? It's just a.
It's just a big one. Right.
And that's the sort of bargaining that, unfortunately
for them, Washington State and Oregon State.
Fans will need to get used to Callen Stanford too, but they've
got so much money. They'll be fine.
Probably. We'll see where we go here, but
I don't know where you want to start on this.
Well, let's, let's kind of start with, I guess, what things
looked like about two weeks ago and how everything unraveled.
And I think that this is 2 weeks, 2 weeks.
That's it. Yeah.
This was not. I was actually.
I was out in California on vacation.
I was. I was hanging out.
I could see the Pacific Ocean from my rental unit.
It was it was delightful. And I'd made some joke, yes.
You know, you got neighboring bungalows.
He was, he was asking me my opinions on media rights and
things like that. It was, it was great.
Clearly I gave him some. Yeah, right.
No, it was funny because, you know, I'm in a beach community
out there in California and it's, it's fascinating the
number of Big 10 like apparel items you see out there.
Anyway, I was wearing my I U stuff, you know, like I normally
would. There was Illinois stuff.
Weirdly, there was, you know, there was some Ohio State stuff.
But you know, I'm, I'm out there and for most of the time I'm
just like, well, there's not a lot that's going to go on
because surely we would have heard something.
We did have the, you know, the the the thing that really set
all this off was the PAC 12 meetings.
Because you know that you have these meetings, you'll have
these, the coaches come out and talk through what's going to go
on with the football season. And there's always a statement
from the conference commissioner and and some of the AD's about,
hey, here's the state of the conference and what was the big
thing, Zach, that was missing from PAC 12 media days for
football. Well, the assumption was that at
long last, surely surely George Kliakoff would have some sort of
media deal in advance of it so they could talk it up.
They didn't. And then and then George
Kliakoff dropped a real whopper of I like, I follow politics.
But even this spin I thought was aggressive, basically saying
that, you know, it's actually good that we don't have a deal.
The longer we wait, the better the deal is going to get.
So it. Is the same thing that every
like single 33 year old male says that Thanksgiving around
the table to his family. When they ask him why they're
single and it's never been true, and so was the case here because
they waited longer and I think it's safe to say GAIL and the
deal didn't get better, it did not get better.
Well, and this is. One way to make it not get
better, yes. Means if you lose more schools
that that part happened that they that they did that too that
that that's noopsie also that happened in Colorado.
Yeah, Well, so, yes, so, so in the wake of no media deal being
announced, but it is coming, which they've been how how many
months had they been promising that a media deal would be
forthcoming where we had been? Saying watch out, it's coming
more than I've seen that Dan Hurley clip from three years ago
posted on my timeline where he said that after Villanova game.
Well, the thing was going in Colorado was very who was like,
you know, Austria 1913, They were just looking to go, They
were looking for a reason. They had said that, you know,
they had their president, maybe it said publicly what we're
expecting to see numbers. There literally weren't any.
So Colorado said, well, if there aren't numbers, we're leaving
because the Big 12 has numbers. They have in fact a fully signed
and executed television deal, a lot of the details of which we
don't know yet. Which I think is kind of been
under reported in all this. But then all this has happened
and now nobody's asking any questions about what actually
the New Deal has in it, right? So Colorado decides to go back
to its old home, the Big 12. That happened, what, 9 days ago?
If I think yes? And it was news that was greeted
with kind of a shrug, which I found odd, like it's so here's
here's a member that you went out and got a decade ago like.
With the same school president now.
Yes, that was there. Then yes, you you went out and
and purposefully grabbed this school from the Big 12 at the
time and put them in the PAC 12. And then when they leave it's
well, you know they they were, they were not really an
important member of the conference.
And you know we didn't need that large media market that they
were in. And it it really was kind of
spun in a in an odd way, and it gave me pause because I thought,
okay, well, maybe they do have a great deal waiting for them.
That and that's why they're so confident about things.
And then of course, as the week unravels, we finally get news
about the PAC 12 meeting where they're going to unveil this new
media rights deal and shock to everybody except the people who
were paying attention. They basically got the MLS deal.
And that's not really a good deal to have if you're a major
conference to trying to compete financially.
Well, yeah, because MLS can go get Leonel Messi to come in and
go subscriptions. I don't think Alabama is joining
the PAC 12 so. There's the difference there.
It's actually even different than that.
So when Colorado left, and I agree with you, it was
fascinating to me how all we heard last summer about with the
LA schools was the markets. Denver market leaves the PAC 12
and there's nobody's talking about the fact that they now
lost to LA and Denver and are in the West which seemed well and
the and the other piece and and this was the the funny wrinkle
leading into PAC 12 media day was the whole saga of San Diego
State who oh. I hadn't even thought of that.
Had that was had long been rumored like, this is the team
that they're going to bring in and you get the San Diego
market, they're going to help cover the Southern California
market, which that on its face was always like wacko.
Hilarious, but. Insane.
But it was a plan. But they're going to do that at
least. But it was predicated on the
idea that there would be a media deal for them to join.
They get to the day, essentially.
And it's like, there's no media deal.
And then there's this whole saga where San Diego State had
already submitted a letter to the Mountain West announcing
they were leaving. And the Mountain West was like,
all right. And then the president of San
Diego State was like, oh, actually, no, that wasn't
actually what we meant. We were just inquiring about
whether it was possible to leave early, and we didn't want to.
And and that all ends up, Zach. With San Diego State announcing
they weren't leaving the Mountain West, we're instead
staying in the Mountain West and wouldn't be joining for at least
another year. And now looks like they're not
joining at all. Because, well, for certain aid
to join, first of all. Second of all, the exit fee for
Mountain West goes to $34 million and as a school that
just built a brand new football stadium in Southern California,
they have got negative $34 million.
So, and by the way, it came out yesterday that they do owe the
Mountain West Conference legal fees $96,000.
That are being deducted. So this entire charade has only
cost San Diego State, is only cost them their dignity and
$96,000. I'd say that's a pretty good
deal compared to what Oregon State is going to get out of
this, but what? Interim Sports Business Journal
named their AD the AD of the Year, which is just such a
description of how trade magazines work.
No, don't give it to Dave Benedict, the UConn ID.
Maybe we can win another national championship to get
attention and not do this shit, but whatever.
Yeah. Anyway, so we moved.
So. The Eagle State isn't going
right, so the PAC 12 is sitting there.
Not doing anything else. Having now in January George
Kliakoff went to SMU, was on the campus, was photographed at an
SMU basketball game. Not hard to do.
There's like 6 people one of them George W Bush.
So you get they he was at the game so they had scouted SMU.
At no point during these two weeks, by the way, has SMU been
mentioned by the PAC 12 Boy, doesn't that say a lot about how
that one so they they kind of tried to get San Diego State,
Manhattan. They looked at SMU Hatton.
They've lost Colorado at this point.
When Colorado goes, Arizona, who was like next in line?
Arizona was like Colorado, but Arizona's been in the PAC 12
since 1978. So at whereas Colorado has been
there for 10 years and has a lot of rivalries in the Big 12, it's
a lot easier for them to go back in the sense they have some old
rivalries. Whereas, you know, Arizona has a
much tighter tie to the PAC 12. And also they have Arizona
State. And we'll get to this difference
in institutions, I'm sure soon. But Arizona all along, it always
been just as itching to go to the Big 12, big basketball power
Kansas, they have a commissioner who talks about basketball, they
have a TV deal. The PAC 12 doesn't.
So Arizona's been trying to go this whole time, it seems, but
their stance wasn't. We need to see numbers.
Their stance was, well we'll see the numbers and then we'll
decide. So Colorado leaves the PAC 12
last minute. I don't think this is by design.
There was an announcement that there was a board meeting.
It was being held at like 10:00 AM local on a one day notice.
So I don't think George Cleo called.
The commissioner was really pumped to go in there and the
meeting was basically George, show us what the deal is that
you have and I've wondered is that the even still active at
the time he does this meeting, but he goes in and he says.
We have an offer from Apple. It's very, very, very, very
heavy streaming and it's around $24 million has been reported by
Burt Mcmurphy, by Pete Tam. A lot of people, $24 million
with escalators that are basically like an NFL contract.
Clauses like they're in there, but you're not going to hit
them. Obviously they can take you to
$30 million which is about which is near what the Big 12 has if
they get like. You know, 15,000,000 subscribers
or something. Probably something completely
unrealistic, something insane. They could get there, but
they're probably if you're an athletic department, you have to
budget on what the guarantee number is.
And the guarantee number was not 33 million, it was about 24 and
a half million, almost like 90%. Streaming Arizona, Safe to say,
was was not really on board with They were not impressed with
that deal, no. No.
And so that led us to. This inflection point that we're
at, where Arizona saw that as the trigger to do what they want
to do, they're going to join the Big 12.
But Galen and so much of the PAC 12 thing comes down to basic
hubris and the issues with higher education presidents.
Arizona State's president has been very loud for a long time
about how much better the Big 12, the PAC 12, is in the Big
12. And was a vocal supporter of
Larry Scott throughout all of this.
And Larry made a couple of not great decisions that will be
reflected upon poorly in history.
Much like the Zimmerman telegram, this has not worked
out well for the Fact 12, but he defended the whole time.
And the Arizona State president even, like recently had this
statement where he explained about how no, no, no, guys like
me don't do streaming. So I don't think we'll do
anything heavy streaming. We can't do anything like that.
So like, really, Yikes. Quotes that were thrown back
into the public this week because it's going down.
And then when it's brought up to him a couple days ago, he
basically walked back all of it, which was a giveaway that
Arizona State. May have said some stupid
things, but they were not going to be left holding the bag here.
So we know Arizona. We're expecting they're going to
go tomorrow. Arizona State's going to be
right behind them. Utah, which has been also very
Pro Pack 12 in terms of the research institution and
variants at Big 12 and doesn't want to be seen as being on the
same level of BYU who's in the Big 12.
But Utah also wants to have an athletic department, so they're
going to go also. So what we're going to get is
Arizona. Arizona State and Utah are going
to go to the Big 12 to join Colorado and the gang of
thousands. That's 1/2 of this scale.
And the other half that's pertains to your neck of the
woods is in the Pacific Northwest, yes.
And to understand that, I think you have to go all the way back
to the original news from last summer about USC&UCLA leaving to
join the Big 10. And you know, one of the things
that immediately got mentioned at that point was, we'll wait,
is the Big 10 just going to grab all of the top level football
brands out of the PAC 12, which was a reasonable thing to think
about. Oregon and Washington, of
course, being really the two names that you would look at
there, that the, you know, the two teams that have competed for
national championships in the conference outside of USC&UCLA.
But it was interesting over the course of the last several
months, especially with Kevin Warren, the now former Big 10
commissioner, having exited the scene.
And of course, whenever that happens, you get the source
dumps that we read about in The Athletic or in CBS Sports or
ESPN with everybody taking shots at Kevin Warren.
He didn't understand college athletics.
He didn't understand that the presidents in the Big 10 are
were uncomfortable with the perception that they were
potentially destroying the PAC 12.
That you know all of these things and you know, the the,
the cherry on top of this occurs at Big 10 media day, which
happens a couple of weeks ago when new Big 10 commissioner
Tony Petitti says, well, you know, our only focus is about
integrating USC&UCLA. We're not really interested in
expansion. We're not going to do anything
other than just, you know, we've got these two teams, we're going
to bring them into the fold. That was also confirmed by many
sources. It's like, well, no, there's no
appetite for expansion. None of the presidents want that
go on and I. Believe was like correct at the
time. Now I see.
I I disagree. I don't think that it was
actually accurate. Here's the thing, I think, and
this is where a lot of what you have to understand with college
sports, and I know you know this, but this is more for the
benefit of the audience. You have to understand that with
the Big 10 especially, so much of this is about keeping up
appearances. So much of it is about not
appearing to be crassly commercial and engaged in naked
power plays in the field of college athletics.
That is, that is gauche in in the the highminded academic
circles of the people that run Big 10 schools.
And that's not, I'm not trying to be critical.
I'm just trying to explain the mentality where for, you know,
we tend to look at these things and I see a lot of criticism
about realignment from people who are like this is all about
greed and dollars and cents. And it's like what?
It's not entirely all about that because in this case, I really
think that Big 10 presidents looked at this and said
USC&UCLA, that's great. That's two top level academic
institutions. You know, they have sterling
reputations, not just in football but in other sports.
We want to bring them in, but if we take Oregon and Washington,
we are going to look like we killed the PAC 12.
Which is kind of hilarious, because by taking USC&UCLA, you
already killed the PAC12PAC. Twelve's dead at that point.
The body might still be, you know, walking around, but this
is the classic We're going to cut the chicken's head off and
it's still going to run around the barnyard for a little bit.
That is essentially what they did with that move.
But to appear that you just drove a stake through the heart
of the PAC 12 was not palatable to a lot of the Big 10
presidents. And I think Warren probably
pressed too hard but correctly on the idea that if you're going
to do this, you can't just be halfway in.
If you're going to, if you're going to go grab West Coast
properties like USC and UCLA, you need to get some partners
travel wise for them because otherwise you're going to end up
with the scenario that The Athletic tried to lay out.
It's like, well, how are we going to do travel with USC and
UCLA with all of these Midwestern and Eastern schools
and so? That did enjoy the the The
scenarios laid out included travel to athletic programs that
don't exist, like. Like, no, not every Big 10
program has all the sports. So no, you can't just do 2 legs.
You can't have them go to Illinois in the Northwestern, by
the way. Have you tried traveling
commercially and now you're going to travel commercially
with the traveling party between 20 and 50?
Like, it's not going to work if it's just two schools.
I don't know if it's going to work to begin with, but you have
a better chance when you can commingle four of the schools
out on the other side of the world here.
As opposed to just trying to put two into the other 14 all the
time. So I, you know, I think
ultimately from the Big Ten's perspective they looked at this
and they said look we you know and whether or not this was
logical and smart or whether it was just kind of one of those
things where they were trying to keep up appearances.
But they said at this point we've essentially pulled the
plug out. We're going to let the water
drain out of this thing and if it explodes then we need to be
ready to take action. And that is essentially what the
Big 10 did in this case Oregon and Washington.
Look at what occurs with the grant, with the deal, and they
say we need to find a life raft, even if the life raft means that
we are taking a cut rate on the media deal to get out of this
PAC 12 thing because we at least have a fighting chance if we are
in the Big 10. We have access to national
recruiting, we have access to to prominence, We have a direct
path to the playoff. None of those things are
guaranteed under whatever the Pack 9 or whatever it is at this
point would present them. And what was interesting about
what happened over the last 24 hours is that it really seemed
for a while last night like this was going to happen.
And there were a bunch of meetings.
There was an executive session meeting for the Board of
Trustees at Washington. There was one at Oregon.
There was one at Arizona. These were being breathlessly
reported on on on X last night. And then this morning,
surprisingly, we get all these messages like, well, there's
been a change of heart and now Oregon might be going to sign
the Grant of Rights deal. And they all happened like there
was a great tweet that the the Reddit CFBX account had where
they wind up the the tweets from Mcmurphy, from Auerbach, I think
from Pete Pamel. And it's like, wow, these are
almost word for word. And then they were all reversed,
almost word for word an hour and a half later.
And I I texted you at that time. This has to be a negotiating
tactic. No, it's a total coincidence
that this happened. It's total as we're as we're on
here. Apparently the Utah thing is
pretty much done so as Utah going to the Big 12 now.
What was interesting was like we knew that the proof that there
was reporting that Oregon and Washington had been vetted last
year. And the proof of that is the
fact that at no point during this was there really any
credible rumor about Oregon or Washington going to the Big 12.
It just like never came up. It was never a consideration,
which I think is kind of fascinating.
But yeah, they're going to the Big 10 supposedly for much lower
payout and it came down to. Even at a lower payout, that's
much higher than what we're gonna get from Apple.
And you know, one of the many subplots of this and we can get
into all the stupid stuff the PAC 12 did to get to this point.
It blows them on. First of all, nobody's talking
about UCLA or Usc's role in this.
You alluded to this. It's incredible.
That's what That's what this all comes from.
That's what this all is. USC and UCLA leaving a year ago
is what this all is not Colorado leaving.
It's not Arizona getting antsy. It's not we'll get to Florida
State. It's not that UCLA&USC took the
heart and the brain out of the league and the wallet.
And now we're just taking other body parts out.
At this point it was it was a dead man.
It was a dead man walking situation.
And this is the danger to some degree of relying primarily on
source driven reporting for things like this.
And what, what? What I mean by that is this.
Anybody who pays close attention to college sports and wasn't
talking directly to somebody in the PAC 12 offices or athletic
directors out there, knew that this wasn't going to work.
That when the PAC 12 hadn't produced a television deal by
last August, that this clearly wasn't going to work.
That there were not television partners.
But the industry and the journalists that surround the
industry kind of talked themselves into the idea that
somehow the pack, whatever PAC 10, Pack nine, was going to
operationally succeed in being a smaller scale conference.
They were going to add some smaller pieces.
It was never going to work. And I'm I'm kind of disappointed
at how credulously a lot of these arguments and claims were
accepted and put forward. Like it was just a foregone
conclusion that the PAC 12 was going to roll on in some way,
shape or form. There was no way, once USC and
UCLA left, that this wasn't going to be the ultimate
outcome. Yeah, I can't believe it
happened this quick, but yes, we were going to.
The fact that it all happened this fast surprised me.
The fact that happened doesn't like I said and I did.
All of this a year ago. And I'd like that.
I'd like to note, and this is in support of my my hypothesis,
that the Big 10 was always knowing this was going to happen
and was just waiting for the right moment.
Did you see when Oregon and Washington are starting Big 10
play? 2020, 24 next year.
They're starting next year. This is not like the USC&UCL A's
as well as two years from now, somehow.
And they've already released all the football schedules for the
next two years in the Big 10. I guess what this was Rd. mapped
quite a ways ago. There's no way that it wasn't.
With all those, I'll say this, all those stories about they had
multiple models. We assume the multiple models
was different ways of Rutgers and Purdue.
The multiple models could have been of green and purple it
turns out. And one of the many things you
mentioned next year that flows my mind about all this, did you
USC and UCLA were because they're leaving the PAC 12 at
the expiration of its Current TV deal?
Their exit fee was 0. Basically Oregon and Washington
pays 0 exit fee. The PAC 12 gets no money in all
this. They won't even.
I make fun of my Caresco a lot. At least the American gets exit
fees they're not getting you. Imagine what the exit fee is
they would have gotten for moves that.
Cripple their conference. They would have gotten from
Washington and Oregon and Washington 0, Oregon 0.
Colorado 0USC0UCLA0. Arizona State 0.
Utah 07 schools Pays zero to move leagues.
You kind of to pay the Americans $7,000,000 to go play basketball
at Passing Square Garden. UCFN to pay 17,000,000 to go to
the Big 12 USC pays zero. It's and this.
What There is no leadership of the PAC 12 and this is there's
two things I want to get to here before we jump over to the East
Coast. So first is what you just said
and 2nd is the disposition to the remaining schools.
Because I think it's a fascinating thing.
But let's talk about where the origins of the PAC 12
disintegrating actually came from.
You know, George Klivkoff has is is certainly taking a lot of
hits. I I have sympathy for this man
because he inherited an unwinnable hand.
And and I think again, this is where there's been a lot of
false bravado from certain people on the West Coast who
have prominent Twitter accounts who have pumped up the PAC 12 as
as a competitor on the national stage.
Realistically speaking, the seeds for this were planted in
2010, 2011, and it's ironic because obviously Larry Scott
gets most of the blame. However, you also have to look
at it, and you have to remember that the PAC 12 was this close
to adding Texas to their conference, wiping out the Big
12 and becoming a truly national conference.
Essentially, at that point, it was rejected by the PAC 12 PAT
presidents. It was not Larry Scott flubbing
the deal. It was the presidents themselves
essentially signing a death warrant that wouldn't be
executed for another 13 years. And that's whose fault this all
actually is. The president's hired Larry
Scott. The president's stood by Larry
Scott and stood by him. Stood by him.
You think we're going back?
They stood by him for a while, then they didn't.
Then when they got George Kliakoff, well, I don't think
it's great, but like, he wasn't exactly functioning with a great
hand here. And it's the presidents who have
all along never once even considered.
BYU or Gonzaga because they're. Or Boise State because well they
don't really fit the big the the PAC 12.
They're the ones who look. Galen, you and I love Olympic
sports. We do.
You love men's soccer at I UI do to it that you kind of know it's
down now. We've a lot they think those
things actually matter in terms of how this works.
Like they Conference of Champions man.
Yeah. Like and like I respect the
athletic accomplishments. I think that should matter.
It literally doesn't for this. Like it doesn't matter.
And they thought it did and like they talked about it like it
did. They never.
ESPN wanted to partner with them to to take over this.
The I mean floundering is kind PAC 12 network like a year ago,
not when TV fees were high like 10 years ago.
Like a year ago, they still wanted to step in and said we'll
do a deal if you let us take it. And they said no.
And they hadn't partnered with ESPN or Fox to start the PAC 12
network. And when they started it, they
had, they did 7 versions of it. Top dollar because.
We're gonna have set Big 10 as a network.
We're gonna have we're gonna have six regional feeds in the
national and it's just it's hubris they they've over and
what was the story about Dennis thought I believe had that last
year when they started this they wanted $50 million of school
after UCLA&USC left the the absolute void of hubris for the
last decade. By everybody in charge of the
PAC 12 at the presidential level.
And yes, Larry Scott and to some small degree, George Kliakoff is
what has led them to this. They have.
They've been living in another
dimension. There's a fun.
Everybody else in college sports, the most fundamental
error that you can make in negotiations in business is
conflating negotiation with your actual assessed value.
And for most of these, PAC 12, it's fine to walk into the room
and say, well, we want 50 million to school.
You got to be willing to know what your actual market value
is. And a lot of what happened along
the way with the PAC 12 was a combination of the hubris that
you're describing and also a lot of decisions that would have
made a lot of sense a decade earlier, but certainly did not
make sense between 2012 and 2022.
And you know you mentioned the split PAC 12 network contract
where you've got an LA version of it and you've got a a Denver
version of it and you've got a Pacific Northwest version of it.
You the the idea that you're going to split all that
programming and that somehow it's all going to make sense
coherently and that you're going to get advertisers off of it
doesn't make a lot of sense the understanding that.
We're going to get carriage on satellite TV in the western half
of the United States for most folks.
Have television via satellite. This isn't New York and Boston,
where everyone's got cable box because of James Dolan's dad.
Yeah, everybody's on DIRECTV and Dish Network and you're not on
satellite and they were and I believe in the Bay Area, they
were exclusive to Comcast. You couldn't even get the PAC 12
network on DIRECTV. I mean that's these are the
kinds of things and it was it was additive and you look across
the board they made a big push about trying to like partner
with Alibaba to get the PAC 12 on in China they're going.
To play overseas, they're going to get the PAC 12 network on on
on throughout China while it wasn't on in Oregon or Arizona
where the schools are. It's like I'm going to fly to
the moon and I'm going to the first thing I'm going to do is
when I'm putting together my moon program is I'm going to
build the moon base. Like, no, you need to build the
rocket 1st to get to the moon. And also along those lines, you
mentioned Comcast, by the way. Oopsie, just giving $70 million
off at the executive level to to just literally like basically do
crimes with the cable fees, which is the thing you do when
it's not going well. They're stealing money from
Comcast, basically. And all these schools we forget,
yes, we flush this out more because I think there's people
that have forgotten this story that the the PAC 12 did not just
describe it cuz you're looking at it right now.
Let me pull up the IT was too Comcast because it involved
subscribers. So there was somebody, it came
out a couple years ago, that somebody, somebody the PAC 12
had had over to the degree of like. 15 to $100 million.
It was 5, 5 million a year for ten years in overpayments that
they charged Comcast. Yes, they overpaid Comcast 5
million. They overcharged them $5,000,000
a year over 10 years. And it turned out that as they
looked into it that like some of the executives, specifically the
CFO and the president of the network.
Informed Larry Scott about it and we're told to keep quiet
about it. So that's that's not great.
That's not really how you're supposed to to to do that.
So they had they they have to and this like isn't resolved
whatever the new deal was that they were going to get at some
point. Comcast gets $50 million.
From these schools it's actually and it's actually 60 million
because there there are additional payments that they
could and this is the interesting thing because they
were gonna withheld additional payments is like arrears
basically and. That's how they're gonna pay for
it, right? Like kind of how they're gonna
pay entrance fees. We're just taking out of your
future earnings. Well, good luck to Oregon.
Stayed on that one. Um.
You know, that's not great, if I'm honest, for them.
So yeah, they when you talk about not being able to get a TV
deal, you know what makes it really hard?
When your literal organization has a history of hiring people
who do financial crime, they're not there anymore.
But it makes people nervous, I would think a little uneasy, in
addition to not being really an appealing product when you the
LA markets out. Your idea is to replace it with
a school in a market that lost an NFL team recently because
it's not a big TV market. So that's not going to work.
You're maybe going to add like the 18th biggest school in
Dallas is your idea plan, but you're not actually going to do
it, apparently. And and you're run by a group of
presidents who just want to be at Williams and Amherst.
So bad. So bad.
And that's like, admirable, I think, the principles they
believe. Are good and idealistic and
would ideally be what works. But that's not where we are if
you're in a Power 5 conference. And the difference, by the way,
to your other point, that the reason that I respect the SEC
the most of all these leagues, you know why?
Because they just do the thing. They just do the thing.
It drives me nuts that the Big 10 really is trying to act like
there's a classy way to murder a league.
There's not. You if you're going to murder
them, just do it like the The SEC would not waste their time
with any of this. They just.
Took Texas, they just took Oklahoma.
They just took Texas A and M and they just said, all right, we'll
take Missouri too. I guess they just did it.
They don't have this above the board.
We would never do such a thing. They have no scruples about it
and they just do it. And that's why I think the SEC
is in the best situation, because they're not paying
eighteen teams right now. That's yeah, well, and just one
last thing for those who haven't been up to speed on the PAC 12
approach to things, just a reminder that this is also a
conference that was spending $7,000,000 a year on office
space rental in San Francisco. This was something that Larry
Scott, the former commissioner insisted on, insisted on having
a 42,000 square foot office in San Francisco that cost $696,000
a month and that's you compare like the big 10s offices in
Chicago, $1.5 million a year. So the the level of of hubris
again, but also just the absolute, this almost feels like
a, you know, a private equity fund going in and hollowing out
a long standing brand because the people could and no one was
paying attention. That's kind of looks like what
happened here. And it's not just that like at
the big the PAC 12 tournament in Vegas, Larry Scott needs a suite
that's like 50 grand a night. Really.
He's like he had a 50 grand night suite.
And and you know, like San Francisco, the most expensive
place in the United States, you have to put the headquarters
right there, right downtown, build it from.
It's insane. When they moved out last year
because, you know, the new leadership realized this is a
little pricey. Part of the deal with the lease
was they had to restore that office area to what it was when
they moved in. Because they were leasing, they
didn't own it, so they had to spend a considerable amount of
money to put that. They made this whatever office
space in San Francisco look like the big fancy PAC 12 net, you
know, advance headquarters. They had to take all that stuff
out. They spent a lot of money.
Yeah, well, to. Build an office back that they
weren't going. We could continue to pile on
Larry Scott. The one thing I will say, there
was a great anecdote in one of the stories about his Like the
post mortem of his tenure, Scott, among other things, stop
the longstanding practice of giving every employee to Rose
Bowl tickets as a holiday perk. He claimed there was a shortage
of tickets. Then they later found out that
he had been giving the same Rose Bowl tickets to a group of
parents on his son's soccer team.
So look, and hey, they're all the same.
Kevin Warren gave away rights to a Big 10 championship game.
He didn't even have the rights to a different TV network.
These things happen. Galen, these things happen.
Just like sometimes you decide in the middle of all this that
you're gonna hold a Board of trustees meeting in which
everybody has a temper tantrum and flares out at the world,
which is also what happened yesterday at Florida State
University, a school that's really mad.
And really upset and wants everyone to know they're really
mad and really upset. So before we get to that, I want
to get to them in just a second. But I want to ask you, so right
now, if you think about the the children left over that haven't
got a home in the divorce settlement yet.
Because if we assume, as as you've stated, that Utah's going
to the Big 12, Arizona's going to the Big 12, and Arizona
State, luckily for them, will be going to the Big 12, you're left
with some sad people in Corvallis.
In Pullman, and surprisingly to some degree but also not
surprisingly if you understand how this all works out
politically, some sad folks in the Bay Area because Cal,
Stanford Washington State and Oregon State right now that's
the PAC 12. That's that's that's essentially
the schools that haven't been spoken for.
Yeah, there's Look, I actually like, I do feel bad for like,
especially the Washington State and Oregon State fans in this.
But, and a lot of other Yukon fans have said this, the thing
that's really been galling about this all week is how after 15
years of dozens of schools moving from conference to
conference, decimating their conferences, when they leave,
it's a great opportunity for that school.
They leave, but suddenly this happens and now all these
reporters where we've just gone too far, suddenly it's it's it's
poor wazoo and poor Oregon State.
It was never poor Yukon. Yes, I'm selfish, but was never
poor USF. It was never poor any of these
other schools. Never poor Memphis.
It was never poor Wichita State. It was never poor Temple.
But now, but now, now we've gone too far.
And all this reporting, I really think these are all reporters
who just assumed, well, surely the PAC 12, it must exist.
It it just will. There was never any actual
reason. It was.
It just will. Everyone is standing around
wondering how this could have happened.
This thing that they have been clearly building the train
track. They've been building a train to
the volcano the entire time and they hammered the final spike in
and they can't believe the train has gone full speed over the
edge of the tracks they built. Yes, this is the.
This is the. Part that's just driven me
insane. This is the It's the Leopards
ate my face of college athletics.
Yeah, like what did you genuinely when when the when the
when the PAC 12 loses the LA school, what did you like?
What was your thought? You really all thought San Diego
State a school none of you pay any attention to.
It was just suddenly going to make it all better.
But the four leftovers of the funeral, by the way, sucks,
doesn't It's not very much fun is it Cal, Stanford, Oregon
State or Washington State. But I do feel bad for,
especially while doing Oregon State.
Cal is my favorite athletic department in the country.
Cal owes about $500 million in bonds over the next 50 years to
rebuild a football stadium that was literally like they had a
football stadium sitting on top of the San Andreas Fault.
The Hayward Fault, which is, which is more dangerous than the
San Andreas Fault. But anyway, yeah.
More dangerous. Spent 50 years not fixing it
because three people were in a tree.
Got him out of the tree. Fix the stadium like five years
ago and now this happens and there's them.
A million other issues with like Cal athletics, like the naming
rights that went to the like to the the crypto coin thing that
came apart last year. Cal's my favorite.
They they rule, they're awesome. They're in trouble.
Stanford, I think we'll be fine because I I don't think they
can. Stanford will happily trot off
into independence. I'm not worried about them.
They have the money and I don't know, I've been saying for a
while, I think Stanford and Cal are kind of quiet quitting on
major college football. A lot of their actions indicate
that or have indicated that in the last 10 years.
So I think while this new reality sucks for them on the
surface, I think it gets somewhere they kind of wanted to
go. Yeah, I think that's an
interesting approach. OSU in Oregon State.
I hope you like trips to Ogden. I'd like to welcome them to the
Mountain West. They just, That's what this is.
There's nowhere else to go at this point for them.
I mean if they want to keep football, which I'm assuming
both of them do, there's you've got the Mountain West, you've
got independence or you've got what the Sunbelt.
I mean, those are those are essentially your options at this
point. The really, really dark place
that it goes is Galen. Can you give me a reason why the
Mountain West would add those to it's?
It is an interesting point. I you know the Mountain West
right now is on a six year media deal that pays $270 million over
the course of those six years. So it's about $45,000,000 a year
for the conference. When you look to re up that,
what value do you get by adding Oregon State and Washington
State and not? Just not just that.
So anybody who knew who comes in right, you need to make sure
that the pie doesn't get cut smaller for everyone.
Who has the rights, Gallon? Who does have the rights?
CBS and Fox, Yes. I think Fox might be covered in
the Pacific Northwest and now CBS is because CBS just signed
the deal with the Big 10 and guess what we just gave you
Oregon and Washington. Yeah.
So that's the other issue they have like I I hope Washington
State and Oregon State would get into the Mountain West.
I'm not that punitive or anything I have no, but it's I
think it's a legitimate question of does the Mountain West look
at this and say what value is being added like at this like
with you rank in the Mountain West, the teams that are there
and you look at the brand value of the teams in the Mountain
West and then you try to place Oregon State and Washington
State within that rank order. They're not, first and second, I
don't think. No, no, they're not.
They're really not. And it's a shame for them.
I don't know how you, I don't know if they can bring in the, I
don't even know the amount of money to be fair, to make the
pie the same. Yeah, and additional the
headaches and stuff and the knowledge that the second you
bring them in, they're trying to get out anyway.
So, like, everyone has just assumed they're going there.
I think they'd probably go there, but I don't think it's a
guarantee. And the thing about we deal
without here is to bring a little E is like the idea that
you can't be a football independent.
It's hard. You can do it.
You can do it like if you're you kind of new mass, well your
rival is doing it. You've got army down the road,
you know. So like of the four
independence, one of them's not really going to acknowledge your
existence in our name. But like the other, they're all
here. Football independence in the
Pacific Northwest is a is a real tough haul.
Idaho didn't even bother. My hope is that Idaho somehow
this helps Idaho football. I want the Kibby Dome to rise
again, but that's my real fear. I think like does it sounds
crazy? Is Oregon State going to be an
FBS program or are they going to go to FCSI don't think that's
where this goes, but I think that it's on the table.
At this point, and they spent a lot of money upgrading a
football facility, there was that very emotional red CFB post
where I rolled my eyes at like, no, nobody actually made
Washington state spend $60 million on the football stadium.
Like you decided to do that. Guys, you were misled.
You were led astray. But like, you know, that
doesn't. That might be the nicest stadium
in FCS in five years. Unfortunately, because I don't
know where you go. Callen Stanford.
I think Callen Stanford would happily embrace football
independence. They have a lot more money.
They'll do it. They can do the high minded
academic thing. I'm sure Nordam will somehow
work something out. I mean definitely with Stanford,
obviously. And they don't care about really
other sports. I this is me that you kind of.
I'm fascinated with what happens.
What does Terra Vanderveer do? What happens to Stanford women's
basketball, which is a powerhouse program in a sport
that has a growing rights deal like like that is something.
I'm fascinated by that. I know it was like page 85 of
all this. What happens to that?
In addition, all the other so many sports, they're grayed out,
which we say don't really matter but are going to get absolutely
kneecapped here by this. I think Stanford and Cowell will
be fine. Washington State.
Oregon State, I'm, I'm, I'm really would be scared.
Let's switch gears and let's switch time zones.
So you alluded to the Florida State thing earlier.
So in the midst of all of this occurring, what was it,
yesterday or the day before? This one's good, because as
depressing as the Wazza Oregon State thing might be, we can
laugh about this one. This one's just funny.
Florida State has a a press conference where remind me this.
Was a press conference. This was a figure the trustees
meeting, you're right. And in it the, the statement is
made essentially that unless there is a significant
alteration of the ACC revenue distribution model in favor of
paying Florida State basically the Texas deal that they were
getting in the Big 12 that they were going to have to look at
that changing their circumstances.
And that was actually. That was the opening.
That was the milder of the statement, Zach.
Yeah, as this thing goes on, every statement made by separate
board members and the the the AD like there are things I'm
thinking of where I'm like, well they can couch it in this and
then someone to make a statement saying no, you know that thing
you think it's couched and that's not going to work.
So you know this plan the ACC has to redistribute revenue.
That's not nearly enough. That's not good enough.
As like fine enough, they'll leave.
It's like it literally has to happen by next August.
We are leaving. We are going to leave.
They were.
I've never seen anything like this, they straight up said.
Unless something drastically changes, which we don't think
will, we are going to leave at some point in the next 12
months. And a couple of things on that.
First of all, the deadline for announcing that you would be
leaving at the end of this upcoming year is August 15th.
So we're talking about 9 days or 11 days from now that was,
bolstered Boyd. I'm not sure what word to use
here by the news today that apparently Florida State is
investigating our old friend Private Equity to see if they
can find the money to get out of the Grant of Rights deal that
they signed until 2036. I'm so excited for Christian
Ronaldo to be on the sidelines of a of a Florida State Miami
game this year in a Seminals the Seminoles jersey This I It's the
perfect. It's funny because Matt Brown
had been reporting on the possibility couple of So I even
credit about what it private because private equity has gone
nuts in in soccer and Saudi Arabia has gone nuts in soccer
and Saudi Arabia's private investment fund has gone nuts in
soccer and golf. And he wrote the article could
have and it was like, yeah, private equity could absolutely
jump in here. And I mean if you gave me any of
the 362 Division One programs to pick who is the likeliest?
To open, to run the private equity with open arms.
My number one pick was Miami, but my number 2 pick would have
also been my number one pick. But yes, Florida State's
absolutely second. Who was your one?
Miami was also my number one. Yeah.
No, no question, but. Florida State, Florida State, it
make it because the contract they're in the situation, the
grant of rights goes through 2036 and so if you want to try
and buy it out, it's like what 300 million or something
Supposedly it's I think it's I think it's like 160 million.
But I've I've seen different numbers and just to explain to
the people who have heard about this but they're not sure or
they've forgotten essentially what occurred with the ACC and
their granted rights back in 2014.
I believe it was the previous ACC commissioner John Swofford
was trying to do negotiations. The ACC wanted their own network
because the SCCSC. C had a network, so they wanted
A network. Big 10 had a network and the ACC
actually very similar to the PAC 12, really struggles with
understanding what their actual spot in the pecking order is.
And you know, then there's the same level of hubris applied
slightly differently. But it's essentially what
produces what happened here, which is Swofford goes and does
a deal with ESPN and he's like it's essentially the Neville
Chamberlain deal. It's the piece in our time deal
of the ACC where it's like I have, I've solved our financial
problems for the next 17 years because I've signed this deal
with a with ESPN that is essentially an ironclad contract
that runs out until 2036 and. The position was, well, we'll
give you a network. We like you, we don't love you.
So we'll do it, but it's going to be on our terms.
And he just said fine, and their lawyers are much better than his
lawyers. And I don't think Florida State
even knows what lawyers are. So the rights for every ACC
school are not actually owned by the schools or the ACC.
It's secondly like a contract. Between the that the ACC hold,
actually I should say the ACC holds the rights and controls
them through 2036 and then sells that to ESPN2036.
And so in 2021, which was before the new deal signed by the SEC,
before the new deal signed by the Big 10, the payments to the
Big 10 and SEC schools from their media deals and networks
was already $20 million more per school per year than what the
ACC schools were getting off of their deal.
And the problem is the ACC it's going to be.
It's going to be more than 20, Yeah.
It's going to be like close to 70.
Sixty $70 million difference a year per year per school and.
So the A/C now until 2036, yes. So this says that is what's
fascinating is every ACC school willingly signed this contract
surrendering their their rights. And the penalties are, I mean
there's punitive and then there's the penalties in this
deal. It's almost impossible.
It's basically impossible to get out of the exit fee.
I'm looking at it now. According to this report is $120
million and you forfeit your media rights back to the
conference for the remainder of the contract.
That second part is the part that I'm pretty certain no one
at Florida State like. So any money that you would go
get elsewhere would go back to the the ACC, which is why
Maryland to some degree jumped when they did among other.
Like they signed it, they read it, but like they had lawyers,
we assume. The, the, the words like object
permanence is an issue here because they can pay all the
money they want, and they don't seem to realize they're not on
TV though until 2036. Like they don't control it.
There's and I don't. Think the ACC is going to be in
a rush to put them in the Big 10 on the ACC now?
Well that was the fascinating thing about this story today
that they were looking at private equity or sovereign
wealth funds potentially because the whole the way that works is
you know you go and and a company fronts you the I guess
the $120 million or whatever and then the company earns that
money back on on revenue from media rights and other sales.
But that doesn't exist here according to this grant of
rights. And then, you know, so it's it's
great copy in the newspaper, but it doesn't solve the fundamental
problem of the grant of rights that all these schools are in.
And the other issue that you run into here, which I think is
fascinating, is that when you think about the way that the ACC
is kind of positioned within everything, you're, you're
really talking about a situation where a lot of those schools are
probably just fine with that amount of money.
You've got a relatively small number that aren't.
Florida State floated a story yesterday that they might
consider suing the ACC for fraud by claiming that I swear, I
swear that I was reading this reporting that they would sue
them for fraud by claiming that John Swofford and the ACC
offices negotiated and gave them information in bad faith.
I don't know how they it's it. These are these fraud cases like
this are essentially impossible to prove in court.
It it never actually works. But this is the direction that
they're trying to go, at least in the public, as a trial
balloon to see what the atmosphere is on this.
And GAIL, the funniest part about all of it.
We've laid out the legal reasons why it's not going to work.
We've laid out the monetary reasons why it literally doesn't
work. We know that private equity
kills everything. We know that you're not going to
be able to sell a pull a lever and bars.
The studios here, where are they going to go?
There's not a league for them to go to is the thing.
Unless they think they can get 70 million a year as an
independent, which? Probably not, if I'm honest.
Well, this is this is the big fascinating thing because.
No, so. A place doesn't exist.
This is and this is where people need to understand how the Big
10 thinks about things and how the SEC thinks about things.
The Big 10 would never accept Florida State.
The academics are not good at Florida State.
It's just it's not it's not a place that the Big 10 would ever
seriously consider adding. There are schools in the ACC
that the Big 10 would consider adding because their cultural
fits and academic fits. Obviously North Carolina is a
big one. Pit would be 1.
Miami is a stretch, but it has. It's a hell of a lot closer to
what the Big 10 will be looking for.
Then Florida State would be that.
So a lot of the response to that has been, Oh, well, they'll just
go to the SEC. And I'm just like, what members
of the SEC want to elevate Florida State to their level in
recruiting this Florida want Florida State to suddenly be in
the same conference recruiting against them?
Does Georgia want them doing that?
Does Auburn want them doing that?
I mean, those are the three most proximal SEC schools to Florida
State, and I think they're very happy with where Florida State
is right now. Thank you.
See if you're doing pretty well and it goes back to actually the
the PAC 12 with the Comcast thing like you think.
Anything they've done the last couple days has the people they
see see going. Yeah, these are the people who
want to be in business with these.
These are the sort of of of screaming public and whine and
yell and Khrushchev style. Bang your shoe on the table,
folks. That are going to help our
conference that is notoriously effective by just being seals on
the beach in the dead of night. This is like the SSC moves
quietly. Well, you don't know the Ssc's
killed you till you're dead. Well, this is they're.
Going to bring it these charlatans.
I tell you the the greatest example of where this comes off
badly. And I think this will hurt
Florida State even more in this argument.
Look at how Nebraska has acted in the Big 10 so far.
They have been this same kind of braying, entitled entity
essentially since they entered and it's one them zero friends
like across the board in the conference offices in the other
schools. And you're right, I mean you got
a preview of that. Now if you're at the SEC looking
at the Big 10 and you've dealt with this power, this, this past
power that is well beyond their sell by date, Who still thinks
that it's 1985 Florida State. Like there's so many reasons why
the SEC would look at them and say there's zero reason why we
want to give these people that much money or I put them on our
competitive level. I liked a few months ago before
even this hit his he fit a few months ago there.
I'd like director straight up said that like it was disgusting
to him that Central Florida is going to make more money than
them, which they are like straight up name dropping other
programs in the state like there it goes back to there's like no
couth with them. They're not.
They're. They're very They're your loud
uncle of Thanksgiving trying to explain to you the real facts
about January 6th, Okay. And if you just listen, you'll
understand about these like. And at the end of the day, it
blows my mind because there's nowhere for them to go.
There's no place to go for them and there's no incentive.
For anyone who holds their rights to give them like it's a
great deal. For ESPN, it's an incredible
deal. Why on earth would they offer
that deal to give them like that was true five years ago?
Why would they? I don't know if anyone's seen
any of the recent report Hajj around the Walt Disney Company
or around media. There's not a lot of money out
there for anyone right now. And so that's why Oregon and
Washington aren't getting a full share.
There's no more money at the end.
The state needs to show a place to go.
They haven't done that yet. That's like they are.
A plan without a dream is a wish.
Florida State, to quote Herman Edwards, They want to go to a
place they can identify and make an amount of money.
The supplier of doesn't exist. I really want to have a billion
dollars, GAIL, and I really do. I at least can go buy the Mega
Millions ticket. I don't know where Florida State
thinks the money's coming from. That's with all these deals.
The thing for me is it where's the money?
This big, big new college ball playoff?
Everyone assumes it's getting more money.
Where from who? Where?
And I think Fox, ESPN, they each bring some money and you get
more money. Where Florida State Amazon
didn't want to save the PAC 12 and they're in Seattle.
Yeah, it's it's amazing to me because that Clemson's facing
the same issue now. They're not as loud as Florida
State, but but also, but there's but other school.
I mean, Virginia Tech is in the same boat.
This is a program that takes us up.
Miami is in the same boat. North Carolina is in the same
boat. You know, I mean it is.
It is what I'm fascinated by, what I'm fascinated by and where
I think we need to watch things is twofold.
A like they're really, there doesn't appear at this point to
be a legal trigger. There's no way to implode the
ACC, which is really the that's what a lot of these schools I
think you're going to want to do.
Now you make a great point, and this has been pointed out by
others as well. There's not much, There's no
money in the pot. Like Disney's talking about
spinning ESPN off or selling it off, I mean.
The the live rights aspects of this are the money is it is
starting to dry up. I mean MLS we laughed about the
the deal with Apple, but as you pointed out MLS at least had the
ability to go and improve their overall market value with
players. They got the ability to do that.
They could make it better. There's no like the PAC 12
can't, But like as we said, PAC 12 can't go out and just like
get Texas or something. So what I where I really get
interested with this though. So now you got the big 10 at 18
you got the SEC, these are the two powers.
You got the Big 12 who is like we are glad to be the 3rd place
Football Conference and we are going to be the number one
basketball conference most likely, yeah, the number one
lesson and all this is know what you are and be fine with it.
And so as we talk about the College Football Playoff, as we
know, the playoff is run by the conference commissioners.
If I'm the Big 10 in the SEC. Why am I?
Am I going to give an extra spot to the ACC?
Why on earth would they deserve it?
What did it so now? An additional source of revenue
and additional source of prominence that you've been
counting on as the ACC is most likely not going to be there
because the big boys at the table and girls don't have to
give it to you and they're not going to give it to you given
this current environment. Right.
This is why all along I was I had absolutely no interest in
the University of Connecticut join the Big 12.
Like it's nice to break your mark likes us.
I like that. I appreciate it.
I don't think anybody else there liked us and I I didn't like
them like it just I didn't think it was a fit, is what I'm saying
because as Florida State I didn't think they would
accelerate it. The possible lifebulb for my
school if we were to do anything at all different would be a
reunion with some of the our old friends, the ACC.
And what would accelerate that is if Florida State and the
socalled Magnificent 7, all those schools do something and I
don't know what their legal recourse is.
I do think the start of it is they needed somebody to just be
willing to be the clown. And I think Florida State didn't
realize they were putting the paint on the clown paint as
they're painting their face, but they've assumed the role
nonetheless. And so now if that is a split,
then my school benefits possibly if they get to reunite with
Syracuse and I mean imagine Duke at the Big East tournament.
Weird. But that would be awesome to be
incredible. And because also, I think that's
how that split that ends up happening.
Like I think Wake Forest would love to still be in a league
with Clemson. But I I can do math.
I don't think that's likely for them.
And now it becomes, yeah, Florida State isn't going to be
able to go it alone. I don't think they're going to
be able to go anywhere. So they're going to need to
create some sort of new thing with those seven schools, what
that thing is, that's I think as of Monday, that's where the next
frontier is. And that I don't think is an
immediate thing. That is a long, legal, ugly
drawn out process that gets drawn out to the point where
maybe that's when the markets have changed, the economic
headwinds have changed, streaming is more permanent
prominent. Maybe then somebody is willing
to do that because right now they aren't.
Right now Netflix isn't Apple, Apple's willing, but we, I mean
you know, Oregon would rather 100 year old conference die than
take that deal. Not a great endorsement, if I'm
honest. For them and Amazon, who knows
where they are in five or six years.
I think that's where the next frontier is and that's Florida
State can yell and they can scream and they can plan all
they want. I don't see where they they're
going to. Someone's going to have to sue,
and I'm not going to say that I don't like their chances if they
do, but you never know. We we need to wrap up because
it's almost dinner time. But two other things to think
about here for those of you out there.
First of all, what you just said about.
Is there some kind of mechanism to implode the ACC?
That would change a lot of things, obviously, but it's not
worth talking about because I certainly don't see where that
comes from it. And you've talked about that as
well. Who that would affect to be
Notre Dame, who I find it curious at this point.
As much as we keep hearing, oh, they're they're going to get
this, they're going to triple their TV money and they're going
to sign this big deal. It's August 4th.
Their their contract expires with NBC.
Next year and we've yet to see a new deal announced.
I'm sure Notre Dame has money waiting for it.
I do wonder at this point if it's the amount of money that
they think is waiting for them, because I feel like if that
money was actually there, that deal would have been signed,
sealed and delivered by this point.
So what do you see as the route that Notre Dame takes?
They keep maintaining this idea. We're going to stay independent.
Is that really the route that they can take as they move
ahead? I mean, they think so.
People back was going to be in charge at the 80 at Notre Dame,
who's in charge of NBC Sports. So, I mean, you know, it's time
to quid pro quo at that point. I expect them to get the money
they think they're going to get. I would note that one of the
interesting reports I thought this week was very sad, but was
that the PAC 12 went to NBCA third time it was reported.
This was the third time they went to them asking for a deal
and they just said we're not interested.
This is like the scene in A Few Good Men when Joe's like I
strenuously object. It's like, you know, it really
doesn't matter at this point. So it's worth noting NBC passed
on the entire PAC 12, so they're gonna pay in order to aim.
I think the answer is yes, but if you want to say that sounds
crazy, I can't tell you it's not.
Well, I just think of it like this.
There's two elements to it. One is.
If NBC really sees that as as worth the money in this
environment in order Dame is is yes, they are a brand that you
would think would be worth that. Is that something that in order
that NBC's willing to pony up the cash for given that now they
have this nationwide conference that they're also going to be
putting on in primetime, which takes away some of the
exclusivity that end that Notre Dame has had up to this point as
the only property on NBC. But the other thing, and this is
where I've got an eye on the ACC.
Notre Dame has conveniently parked all of their non football
sports in the ACC. If the ACC disintegrates, this
is a much like Stanford. This is a school that really
thinks that the Olympic sports and the non football sports
matter, at least to some degree. The idea that they would like
keep them in a much diminished ACCI?
Don't know if that's actually a longterm play.
So I do wonder what happens there because if they're looking
for a home for their non revenue sports or Olympic sports,
there's not a lot of options for them.
What happens is they immediately join the Big East, like
immediately and Gonzaga possibly gets it added with them and then
that becomes a whole different thing.
But that's what I think happens. Like they didn't get some money
from the ACC. Now it's not like they get
nothing. They got a pretty good cut.
That's part of the deal to get them and it's not a full share,
but it's a share and that's part of the thing Like even if the
NBC money isn't as high as they're saying, if it's like
close Clemson needs in order to aim to get like 40 million a
year. I don't think that's happening.
I think they're going to get a well north of 55 or 60.
If if if they get less somehow and they aren't taken care of by
NBC and nobody else comes in and gives them that money, which I
think people would. I think ESPN would because you
only got to pay for one and it's a it's a huge brand say what
we'll joke about them there is there is like it matters nor
they they're still very important they have a they have
a great obviously great football schedule to get access to all
those games a lot of which involve the ACC part of the deal
So it Clemson needs Nordam didn't to not to get a really
bad offer that's what Clemson needs.
If Norton gets a pretty good offer, they just stay and
they're fine and they're stable. And this, this, I don't think a
lot moves there's until Florida State.
I think Florida State's kind of waiting on that.
They're waiting to see what that deal is.
They're hoping it's a bad deal. If it isn't, and I don't think
it will be, then maybe Florida State escalates this with
actually firing nuclear weapons. I don't know how much more it.
Will escalate this beyond where we are.
Like I think their whole board of trustees went to saw
Oppenheimer and just came out and decided we have to schedule
a meeting right now. Right now.
This is disgusting. This is crazy humanity right now
because that's the next thing to keep an eye on is yeah, what?
Nor Dame's deal is the next one and what happens with them.
And you know as in terms of UConn, if we chance for us to
end up with a lot of those remnants is based off of a lot
of that. I I think Nordam, yeah, that's
the plan and I think it's actually pretty realistic to
just keep going along. I don't think Nordam thinks they
need 75,000,000 a year. They're fine with like 60
million a year. They can make up the difference.
Much like Stanford, they're good for the money.
You don't want to know where it's coming from.
But it's there different. It's different kettle of fish,
so to speak, for Florida State, you know, and Florida State will
be the first to let you know it by their actions.
You would not see Notre Dame do this in public.
No, you wouldn't see CC school doing this in public.
You wouldn't see Miami doing this in public.
You wouldn't see North Carolina do this in public.
You wouldn't see Virginia do this in public.
You apparently also wouldn't see Clemson do this in public.
For Florida State to do this, it really is kind of an emperor has
no close moment for me and it's it's it's not a good look.
Just like all afternoon Galen. I mean, I feel bad though on
this one. Seeing the Washington State
public statements is just like, guys, you could just say
nothing. You don't need to issue a public
statement of how disappointed you are and everyone like you
don't have to confirm your place in the pecking order.
Some fans want to see that. Fans love seeing that.
I'm sure the Washington State fans love that.
That's not solving this. Yeah, well it's going to be an
interesting ride. We will probably be talking
about this again within the next couple of weeks because I get
the dowers days. We will come back and talk about
this more as events warrant. But this was good to catch up
with you on this and what what is what is what 2 weeks.
And you know, it's going to be a fascinating next year as we see
how all of the pieces. Fall together on this and what
are the fallout happens and where all of these schools that
don't have homes right now or trying to get out of their homes
end up actually going so. And what looked like a very weak
2024-2025 and 2026 University of Connecticut football schedule,
as I have noted, all of a sudden might get a lot better because
the misfortune of some they mean a home and home.
With Stanford football, we will welcome Wazoo to East Hartford.
We can't wait to see the Beavers.
There's a river under Yukon Football Stadium.
Beavers. There's a river down there.
It's underground. You can dam it up here in East
Hartford. So we're gonna benefit from
this. I think, and I actually they got
you. The opposite happens.
They are punished by the fact that now Oregon and Washington
are in the Big 10 for 2024 because man, the football, the
football schedule I U had for 2024, which is now in the trash.
This was ideal. No Michigan.
No Ohio State. UCLA at home.
Penn State at home. Minnesota at home.
Traveling to Michigan State and Nebraska and Northwestern, I'll
take that any day of the week. That's all out the window now.
And I pulled it's it's so insane that like, really, we have to do
this for every sport. Like, does does UCLA baseball
have to be in a conference with Rutgers?
Like, does women's soccer need? It is, and this is something
this is, this is something we really need to have a separate.
Podcast on, But it but, and I'll end with this, and I said this
earlier on Twitter, this is what happens when nobody's in charge
and when people who are in a business refuse to acknowledge
that they're in a business. And you know the absolute.
Temerity of these schools and the athletic directors to go in
front of Congress and claim that they need controls on player
movement because it's ruining college sports to then turn
around and have all of this happen in their own backyards is
about as hypocritical as you can get.
And I expect it, certainly because that's what you've
gotten out of college athletics. I don't.
I'm not morally offended by it, but I do think it's kind of
hilarious that. When you have nobody in charge,
this is what happens. And you know, look, if the NFL
had nobody in charge, this is what would happen if Major
League Baseball had nobody in charge.
We seen it in European soccer where there's really nobody in
charge. And this is what has almost
happened and will certainly eventually happen within the
next few years. Yeah, people talk about how to
stop this. Well, in Europe, the fans rose
up because fans have that power. the United States of fans just
like, didn't buy season tickets or didn't turn on the games.
But they're going to. They're gonna watch you all.
You listening? Can't wait for the first Oregon
Purdue game. You can't wait to watch
Washington, MD. You're gonna watch every single
one of them. You say you weren't.
You're gonna be right there. Ooh, the game's tight in the
fourth quarter. I'll put on Rutgers Washington.
You will. That's the difference is here
folks, like everything else in American life, people just take
it. People just take stuff.
And it's if you want to be annoyed, that's what should
annoy you. Because unless you think the
benevolent, the benevolent overlords of the public
Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia are going to come in with
Florida State and solve this, they're probably not.
The people and the fans have the power and they just never use
it. They never use it.
Never one time have they used it.
Prove me wrong, America. Prove.
Me wrong. Last, very last thing.
And then we're definitely going. But this just popped up on
Stuart Mandel's Twitter feed. The Oregon's Regents and
President are right now, as we as we're doing this podcast,
having their call about joining the Big 10, and one of the
Regents is on the golf course. On his phone taking this call,
there might be no greater metaphor that we'll see visually
for this whole process than what we're seeing there.
MY1 take away is surely the I'm not saying it'll work, but
hasn't the PAC 12 got us sue for torturous interference?
Sue somebody on the end of this. Who they going to sue though?
They're going to sue? Are they going to sue Fox?
Are they going to sue the Big 10?
Again, this is kind of like Florida State saying we're going
to sue our own league for fraud, but that's the thing.
They might have a case. I don't think they will.
But like at the that's my very curious thing is what on earth
is the. Because we've gotten so many and
they're all conveniently date stamped, we've gotten so many
PAC 12 statements. I can't wait for the one after
this. I can't even fathom what the PR
strategy is after this. We always wanted Nevada.
All right. For Zach, I'm Galen.
Thank you for joining us all. As we talked some crazy college
sports realignment. Thanks to our friends at Home
Field Apparel. Be sure to check out our regular
podcast on Crimson Cast. We're tackling the I U football
season and we'll be talking about other stuff going on in
the conference here pretty soon anyway.
We'll catch you folks on the flip side.
So everybody.