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Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale
and Claudia Scott Caulfield 

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here. 
It's Friday the 15th of January 

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halfway through January and it 
feels like we're halfway through

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basketball season. 
We're not quite I love what kind

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of close to their I guess 
certainly not halfway through 

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the Big Ten season, but through 
the overall number of games. 

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It's pretty darn close to that 
halfway point and gosh things 

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are not going well for IU right 
now. 

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We're going to talk about 
basketball pretty much 

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exclusively. 
I know there's some football 

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news out there. 
We're not going to address that 

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quite yet. 
We will have a football podcast 

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coming up soon. 
But we need to talk basketball 

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Indiana coming off of just an 
inexcusable loss on a number of 

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levels last night to Purdue they
fall at home 81 69 and folate 

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and On the campaign fall back 
under 500 in the conference and 

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it's crisis time and I you 
Hoops. 

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It just is as much as we talked 
earlier on about maybe not 

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rushing to judgment about what's
going on with the team and 

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letting things even out at this 
point. 

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It's hard to find the light at 
the end of the tunnel not just 

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because of the results but 
because of the process that's 

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leading to the results. 
And so we're going to try to get

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into that here and Scott. 
I guess just first and foremost.

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Let's give our quick Reflections
on the game last night. 

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Indiana came in facing, you 
know, same record as Purdue 8 

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and 5 neither team had 
particularly let the world on 

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fire over the course of the 
season and it looked like the 

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things were set up fairly well 
for Indiana in this game, they 

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were better in the power 
rankings. 

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They were about 20 22 25 spots 
ahead of Purdue depending on 

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what ranking system. 
He wanted to look at Purdue's 

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offense. 
It really have trouble 

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throughout the course of the 
season. 

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Been going and Indiana had 
certainly played well in their 

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last two games, maybe three. 
If you want to count the 

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Maryland game, they'd almost won
at Wisconsin and then they 

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wavered a bit at Nebraska but 
they still ended up covering the

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spread their winning by 8. 
So I think many people myself 

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included felt like all right. 
If this IU team is playing well 

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and they're playing a Purdue 
team that has been very hot and 

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cold the very least. 
They should be able to win a 

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close game against Purdue. 
At home instead the opposite 

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happened. 
They were out of it early. 

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They got back in and then they 
never really got over the hump 

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and they ended up losing again, 
you know by double digits. 

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So give me your thoughts right 
off the bat. 

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What's your what's your your hot
take off of yesterday's game? 

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That was an intro man. 
Welcome. 

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You know, it's funny. 
We've I remember when you and I 

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would go to IU Purdue games 
together. 

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We were talking about it days 
before we were excited. 

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I would kind of get ready ahead 
of time and it was like the 

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highlight of our evening. 
It is funny now as an adult, I'm

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going to get to a point here in 
a sec. 

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But it's like I have you know, I
have two kids. 

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We have a new puppy my wife 
works by work, you know, we're 

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up at 6:30 every day. 
It was great put the boys to bed

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last night at like 7 o'clock or 
7:30 issue know we fit down at 

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eight o'clock starting to watch 
it on DVR sitting on my chair 

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and it's like I fall asleep 
Midway through the first quarter

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which are first half which is 
very standard for me to know as 

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an old man. 
And he's your old man and Marcy 

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my wife throws a pillow my head 
like 10 minutes later. 

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I kind of wake up and she's like
the game sucks beer asleep and 

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I'm like, okay so watch the 
again and then I fall asleep 

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again, I wake up. 
It's like we're still down eight

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and honestly, there was like, 
normally I'd be like, all right.

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Well shit, I gotta like rewind 
and re-watch the game, but I was

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like, yeah, I'm just gonna keep 
you know, I'm just going to roll

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from here. 
It was like the 14-minute mark 

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of the second half and I was 
kind of in and out of 

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Consciousness for a lot of the 
second half. 

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I highly Man, there's a fun way 
to watch it. 

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I you lost to Purdue. 
My takeaway is this Purdue? 

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There's a shot called a 
three-point shot. 

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I know as an Indiana fans are 
having a real hard time 

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remembering what this is. 
I know if you watch any other 

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basketball, like people shoot 
this but it's behind the arc is 

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not a set shot is not a basket 
shot Purdue went 1111 for 17 

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from behind the arc, which I 
think is a loud. 

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You're allowed to hit those 
shots Indiana went 3 for 18. 

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I remember when Al Durham had 
four against Penn State. 

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It's like All right. 
Here we go. 

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Durham and fitness see like 
we're back to hurt, you know 

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corner has been turned. 
Yeah. 

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He went 1 for 3 Dude 3 for 18 
just ain't gonna cut it. 

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I mean that is I don't think I 
can even say it's like 1950s 

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basketball because they ain't 
even shoot the three having this

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is we are playing an Antiquated 
system of basketball. 

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We're not equipped to play the 
way that other teams play 

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Purdue's not like some, you know
great team, but this is also the

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problem we've had with the pack 
line defense at times on defense

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is teams get hot from three and 
then we don't really have a way 

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Of stopping them and you see 
this over and over again. 

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It's just the three-point shot 
is an important shot in modern 

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basketball. 
We aren't we seemed unbelievably

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ill-equipped to get it done. 
So yeah, it's good times. 

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You know, I was joking. 
The last thing I'll say is I was

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joking with some friends. 
It's like I've spent more time 

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over the last 25 30 years 
searching and thinking about the

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buyout of my current coach and 
what timeline that is and how 

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that can be done that I've had 
time that I've been I'm actually

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enjoying the current coach that 
I have and this is this is an 

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Archie crean Davis thing. 
It's like I've spent way more 

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hours reading contracts and like
thinking of buyouts and when 

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things are going to happen that 
I've had times like talking to 

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you be like. 
Hey man, we're on the right 

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path. 
Like we're at a good spot. 

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It just sucks. 
It just sucks like 25 years of 

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that since we basically 
graduated college has been a lot

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of those times so good times. 
I look forward to sleeping 

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through half the next game as 
well. 

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That was quite a quite a mix of 
thoughts to start with. 

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So let's let's break this down a
little bit, you know in terms of

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the Purdue game. 
The I think the thing that was 

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the most inexplicable to me was 
the huge gaps in effort that 

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were obvious in the way Indiana 
played that just weren't there 

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with Purdue or Purdue. 
They had some trouble at the end

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of the first half sustaining the
momentum that they'd built in 

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the beginning of the first half.
But then when the second half 

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rolled around they kind of pick 
right back up and for whatever 

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reason Over the last five years 
Purdue has brought it in these 

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games versus IU. 
And Indiana has struggled to 

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bring it and that I think shows 
through in the fact that Archie 

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Miller is you have to beat 
Purdue in his time as a head 

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coach in Indiana and its really 
I'd love to say it's only had 

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seven shots out of Gail not give
him some time. 

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I'd love to say it's disturbing 
but it's not even disturbing. 

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It's just kind of of 
garden-variety Indiana 

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basketball right now where you 
know, they're just just there a 

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large stretches of time where 
the team doesn't look like 

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they're playing. 
Well they are and not not just 

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not just doesn't look like they 
aren't playing. 

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Well, it's not just a visual 
thing. 

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It's an actual execution thing 
and it's I'd love to say it's 

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just the three-point shot and 
that is absolutely a problem. 

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But it is a systemic failure of 
this team across the board, you 

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know, if you want to criticize 
them on offense you absolutely 

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can right. 
Now this team is a thin the 

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conference in conference. 
The offense from an efficiency 

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perspective which is not great, 
you know and it's it's like it's

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right in the middle of the pack.
It's slightly below the median 

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line and that's not going to get
the job done particularly. 

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When you consider that that is 
you know, it's even though it's 

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an improvement over what 
Indiana's done over the course 

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of the last several years. 
It's still not good like last 

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year Indiana finished the 
conference season 12th in 

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conference only offensive 
efficiency. 

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They were under a point per 
possession the year before that.

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Point in conference only offense
efficiency again under one point

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per possession Archie's first 
year. 

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They were barely above one point
per possession and this year 

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they find themselves at barely 
over a point per possession on 

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offense that is hard to do 
anything with like if that's the

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your team's profile offensively 
in any era of basketball. 

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You're not going to get the job 
done. 

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But the problem is for IU 
everything seems to be pointing 

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towards their That's Archie 
Miller. 

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Like he spent his entire post 
game press conference after the 

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game yesterday talking about how
our defense wasn't good enough 

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and that's true. 
It wasn't but it's doubly bad 

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because Indiana doesn't have the
offense to make up for their 

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defense not being good enough 
Indiana's defense on the season.

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If you think about their their 
overall number their can Palm 

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number, it's dropped now to 23rd
in the nation. 

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Well, that sounds fairly good. 
Ninety. 

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One point eight points allowed 
per hundred possessions. 

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That's you can make a living 
off. 

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Off of that, but if you take out
the non-conference games, you 

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just focus on the Big 10 games 
so far and we've got enough 

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where I think it's a reasonable 
sample since they're allowing 

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one hundred and six point two 
points per 100 possessions. 

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They are dead last in 
three-point percentage defended.

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They are allowing Big Ten 
opponents to shoot 40.4% from 

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three, which is the worst in the
conference by a couple of 

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percentage points, Maryland is 
second worst, and they're only 

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at 38% They're allowing 
opponents. 

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Shoot an effective field goal 
percentage of 54.3% which is Xi.

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So this is where the Purdue game
just ends up being a microcosm 

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of a much larger issue their 
offense isn't good enough to win

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games and their defense isn't 
good enough to compensate for 

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how bad their offense is and 
this again is nothing new. 

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This is essentially what Indiana
basketball is and what it has 

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become. 
It's what it was last year to a 

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large degree. 
It's what it was the year before

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and And when we talked at the 
beginning of the season I said, 

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well there are reasons to feel 
optimistic. 

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We have to actually see things 
happen that haven't happened yet

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in order for the optimism to 
play out into reality and those 

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things have just not happened 
over the course of this year. 

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And so, you know, I think from 
the from just a basketball 

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standpoint. 
It's hard to point towards 

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anything right now with this 
team that really gives you a 

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huge amount of positive 
feelings. 

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Because you're now in a 
conference that has scouted you 

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to death that has film on every 
one of your players and that has

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a really easily replicable game 
plan for beating you night in 

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and night out and you don't seem
to have the tools as a program 

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to be able to counter that and 
come out and win games, you know

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the games they've won so far 
this season are I mean, they 

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Penn State at home and overtime 
Maryland at home in a game. 

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That was too close for comfort. 
Effort given the relative 

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strengths of Maryland in my 
opinion and then a road win at 

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Nebraska where you surrendered 
an 18-point lead and and had to 

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essentially scrape and Claw to 
get back out to a reasonable 

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boundary by the end of the game.
That's that's not a great 

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resume. 
When you consider that those 

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three games are Perhaps Perhaps 
the three easiest games in your 

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schedule for the entire big 
tent. 

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Yeah. 
You don't play them again. 

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If you don't forget to track 
your plate you've got What I 

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think they've got no, you're 
right. 

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I don't know plenty of those 
teams again. 

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Yeah, that's that's that's a bad
sign. 

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00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:42,900
Yeah. 
Now it is and I mean I you know,

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I was listening to the assembly 
call guys last night and they're

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you know, they're kind of the 
Bastion of positivity in the IU 

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blogosphere. 
It was nice to see them kind of 

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come to my side of being unhappy
but you know, everything you 

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said is right, but I go back to 
like, let's I do think what's 

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been tough with this team. 
It's been kind of Don't want to 

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00:12:01,908 --> 00:12:05,500
say Ken Palm darling, but it's 
had some good Ken Palm defensive

224
00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,000
stats, and it's been like a good
Ken Palm rated team. 

225
00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:11,300
But like when you take a step 
back, I don't want to sound all 

226
00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:14,100
sportscaster areas, but it's 
like, you know wins and losses 

227
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,700
like those are the only staff 
that matter and I continue to 

228
00:12:16,700 --> 00:12:19,500
bang on this drum. 
It's like there's there was 

229
00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:21,400
injuries. 
There's all kinds of stuff but 

230
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,700
like you've Archie's teams have 
underperformed for three years 

231
00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:29,100
or at least average perform. 
Like there's not one year where 

232
00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:31,900
you can say like, that's a year.
We're like we blew the Out of 

233
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:35,200
the water must thank you for it 
every year, but you can't go 

234
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,600
under for a year and then just 
be average for three years and 

235
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,600
just continue to be 500 in the 
Big Ten and expect things expect

236
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,700
there to be a ton of interest in
a ton of Happiness. 

237
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,400
It's like no you got to blow 
this out. 

238
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,400
And I think we're I'm very 
frustrated now as I look at the 

239
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,200
schedule and I just don't see 
how we do it. 

240
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,500
Now things can still be 
salvaged. 

241
00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:56,100
I don't know how it happens. 
You know. 

242
00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:58,200
Hope is not a plan as I always 
say but it's like if you can 

243
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,700
beat Iowa Rutgers, Michigan, 
Illinois and Iowa again, if You 

244
00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:03,100
go on a nice five-game winning 
streak. 

245
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:05,300
It's like all right that makes 
up for a lot of the shit. 

246
00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:07,500
You've piled on the last three 
or four years. 

247
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,500
I don't see that as a realistic 
possibility. 

248
00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:11,800
But like that's the kind of 
thing that I think at this point

249
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,200
needs to happen like not just 
get close in two of those and 

250
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,400
win one like go in five of those
games like you do that and 

251
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,800
things have changed but that's 
what this program is missing is 

252
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,400
like, what's the what's the 
defining win? 

253
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,600
What's the defining season? 
Like, what are we look at it? 

254
00:13:26,608 --> 00:13:28,700
Like oh, that's awesome. 
I remember that that nice 

255
00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:32,600
three-game stretch where I'm 
like, I can't even think of a A 

256
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,300
month-long stretch in the Archie
era where it's like I'm super 

257
00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:37,700
confident about where we're 
going. 

258
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,100
It's like what two games then 
it's like we just shit the bed 

259
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:42,300
the next game. 
I know I'm super negative, but 

260
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:44,600
it's I've been feeling this for 
a while. 

261
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,000
Yeah. 
I mean, I think the problem 

262
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,900
right now is It's both a macro 
level problem in a micro level 

263
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:55,600
problem. 
The micro level problem for this

264
00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:01,600
season is I have yet to see 
anything in Big Ten play. 

265
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:05,100
That would make me think this 
team has it in them to suddenly 

266
00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:07,800
start figuring out how to win 
games to some degree. 

267
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,400
You are what your DNA says you 
are as a basketball team and 

268
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,000
what this basketball team is a 
team that is overly reliant on 

269
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:21,300
post play to Garner most of its 
offense. and a team that's 

270
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:26,500
unwilling to shoot from outside 
in most games a team that can't 

271
00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:31,400
decide what tempo wants to run 
but whose impulse is to go slow 

272
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,400
on defense and then try to go a 
little fast on offense and a 

273
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,500
team that defensively isn't 
solid enough to be able to 

274
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,300
compensate for the problems that
they create for themselves with 

275
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:48,200
by these huge story scoring 
droughts and not just that but 

276
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:51,300
the handicap being of the points
per possession that you're able 

277
00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:54,200
to generate as a team when 
you're just not willing or able 

278
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,100
to shoot three pointers. 
I mean Iman Brennan had a pretty

279
00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:00,700
good piece in the athletic. 
I think it was this morning 

280
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:05,700
about the the shooting issues 
for IU and the shot chart from 

281
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:08,900
the second half of the game 
yesterday was just atrocious 

282
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:11,700
like I mean, it looked like that
on Twitter like yeah, it was 

283
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:14,300
just you know, if you haven't 
seen it go check it out. 

284
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:16,900
It looks like a shot chart from 
1985. 

285
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,400
We're just all the shots are 
from about 8 to 10. 

286
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:25,700
It in and you know so much of 
like you can blame players 

287
00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:28,800
certainly for not executing 
things. 

288
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,000
But over time the offense is 
start to reveal themselves and 

289
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,400
it doesn't feel like the offense
has changed that tremendously 

290
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,100
much from what we've seen, you 
know over the last few years. 

291
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:43,500
Yeah the pieces of changed a bit
but the core concept of the 

292
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:48,700
offense is to go inside and 
score points on the interior or 

293
00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:51,200
to Pat. 
Like to shot fake on Three's 

294
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,200
step in and take long to switch 
just blows my mind that that's 

295
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,400
the mentality that is being, you
know carried out there by the 

296
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,400
players. 
That's that's the long to is the

297
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,600
worst shot that you can take in 
basketball for a variety of 

298
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:10,100
reasons, but knowing all of that
and knowing how the players 

299
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:13,700
individually are playing in the 
system, it's hard to find 

300
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,400
anything that you would point to
I guess you could maybe point to

301
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,300
the game at Wisconsin, but that 
game looks like such an outlier.

302
00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:24,200
In terms of this team's ability 
to stay close and it's not like 

303
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,200
that Wisconsin team covered 
itself in glory their next time 

304
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,100
out. 
They went out and got 

305
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,600
Annihilator that Michigan which 
just to some degree demonstrates

306
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,900
the difference between a team 
that's really playing well and 

307
00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:39,600
has a sense of itself and 
Indiana who doesn't and that I 

308
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,400
think that Wisconsin game kind 
of like the the two years ago 

309
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,200
Romeo Season, it's like that 
team went on the 30th, you lost 

310
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,900
11 or 13, but they beat Michigan
State twice and think that was a

311
00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:52,100
weirdo Outlier but it's like 
that just they just got Upper 

312
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:53,500
Michigan State they seem to 
match up. 

313
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,200
Well against Michigan State 
maybe we just like we have some 

314
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,600
kind of key that can unlock 
Wisconsin, which is awesome 

315
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,800
because we don't play them again
either. 

316
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,599
So right, you know, it's like I 
just so I look at that very it's

317
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,200
like, all right, like you can't 
just continue to look back and 

318
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,300
say alright we played well 
against Wisconsin there a top 10

319
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:12,700
team like something works like 
no because two years ago nothing

320
00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:14,500
really worked and we just we 
played well against Michigan 

321
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:19,700
State and that was like you said
the outlier The micro level is I

322
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:22,300
said a problem. 
The macro level is much worse 

323
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,599
because of a couple of things 
one is what you said when you 

324
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:29,900
try to think back and say, okay.
What is The Shining Moment of 

325
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:33,600
the Archie Miller era either in 
terms of a streak of games or 

326
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,100
even just in terms of like, you 
know a game that really got you 

327
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:40,700
galvanized for IU basketball, 
you know, you can say probably 

328
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,200
the Florida State game last year
maybe the Michigan State game at

329
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,700
home last year. 
You know in 2019, I guess you 

330
00:17:49,708 --> 00:17:51,400
would point to the game at 
Michigan State. 

331
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,500
That one was exciting that home 
game versus Wisconsin. 

332
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,900
I was there that was not 
exciting. 

333
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,800
It was it was a lot of things 
but it just that that it was a 

334
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,200
win. 
That's about the best I can say 

335
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,100
about it. 
There's is a handful of games 

336
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,800
where you can think back and say
wow, Indiana really played. 

337
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,300
Well, they played hard they 
played with energy and Poise and

338
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:17,000
determination and all those 
Cross Road games. 

339
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,500
Archie's a good Crossroad coach 
well, because he's playing 

340
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,500
second or third level teams, you
know, I mean that Butler team I 

341
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:25,600
don't that bubble teams not 
going to the tournament this 

342
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,700
year, you know, the Providence 
and Stanford are borderline. 

343
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:33,200
If not completely out of the 
tournament picture at this 

344
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,900
point. 
And and so when I look at the 

345
00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:41,500
way that this IU team plays they
just always look like they're on

346
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:45,800
the brink of spiraling down. 
There's there's always you go 

347
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,800
into every game and and you're 
just waiting for the 5 minute 

348
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,400
scoring drought that inevitably 
is going to pop up and you're 

349
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,300
waiting for that that moment in 
time where the offense just 

350
00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:58,400
stagnates because the defense is
blowing up everything Indiana's 

351
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,700
planning on doing because 
they've seen it on tape enough 

352
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:03,900
times and you're waiting for the
defensive moments where they 

353
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,600
over help and over rotate and 
leave three point shooters wide 

354
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,300
open. 
It's it's just like clockwork. 

355
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,400
It's so frustrating I think for 
the average fan. 

356
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,100
To try to get any joy out of 
watching these games because 

357
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:22,900
even the winds are like pulling 
teeth. 

358
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,000
The winds are a grind the losses
are a grind with you know, no 

359
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,500
pot of gold at the end of the 
rainbow, but even the ones that 

360
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,600
have the win at the end, I mean 
did anybody really watch that? 

361
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,300
Nebraska Game and leave saying 
yeah, that was a that was really

362
00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:40,800
great top to bottom from IU. 
I mean the Maryland game was the

363
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,900
same way to Penn State game was 
the same way. 

364
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:46,900
It's just there's just such a 
lack of joy. 

365
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,900
In terms of watching the team 
and frankly in terms of just 

366
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:53,600
watching the guys on the floor. 
Like I watched race Jackson 

367
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,800
Davis who's had a great season 
despite all of the problems 

368
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,000
around him and that's a guy he 
doesn't play with joy as much as

369
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,300
he plays with like anger, you 
know, he's constantly if it 

370
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:08,600
looks like he's constantly going
up against three or four guys at

371
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,600
once often times because he is 
and he's like every time he does

372
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,600
something and accomplish it so 
big it just it looks like a 

373
00:20:15,608 --> 00:20:16,900
little bit of weight has been 
lifted off. 

374
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,700
His shoulders just to be dropped
right back on those shoulders at

375
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,600
the end of the next possession 
and ever it almost everybody 

376
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,600
else brace Thompson has been 
pretty joyous to watch but 

377
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,700
everybody else pretty looks 
pretty tentative or makes 

378
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:33,500
mistakes or whatever and you can
just see their Collective 

379
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:37,900
psychology declining throughout 
the course of pretty much every 

380
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,200
game that they play. 
It's just a very very difficult 

381
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,800
thing. 
Yeah. 

382
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,200
Now they gets its it was very 
evident with you know, a guy 

383
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,800
like Rob fantasy after the Penn 
State. 

384
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,100
When you hit that game winner, 
it was like you saw Rob again. 

385
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:53,200
Like he looks like a kid who's a
super happy-go-lucky kid that 

386
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,600
we've only seen be that way for 
like three times in his career 

387
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,900
at IU like the rest of the time.
He looks tentative. 

388
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:01,200
It looks like he's up his own 
head. 

389
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,100
It was kind of nice like, oh 
there's Rob smiling like that 

390
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:05,900
was that was cool guy looks good
when he smiles like I like him 

391
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:11,600
being happy know you're it's 
it's weird because under you 

392
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,400
know, the Creed error was sloppy
and they made a lot of mistakes,

393
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,100
but you could just tell they 
were kind of loose and you know,

394
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:23,000
the this this era it everyone 
feels like there are there 

395
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,800
they're so worried about making 
the mistake and you are right. 

396
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,300
There isn't a lot of Joy there. 
It's not as talking to to Tony 

397
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:31,100
yesterday on the podcast and 
he's like, they just need to 

398
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:32,900
play more pickup ball. 
Like that's what he saw is like 

399
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:35,600
they just they're practicing to 
her the way he views his I could

400
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,600
practicing too much. 
They just play some more pickup 

401
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,500
and you I kind of feel that it's
I don't know man. 

402
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,100
It's a bummer because I don't 
know how you get out of this 

403
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,800
because the roster isn't going 
to change this season. 

404
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,600
It's not going to get 
increasingly better next season.

405
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:56,900
And again what really frustrates
me is when people are like, oh 

406
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:58,400
well, the Big Ten is super 
tough. 

407
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,300
Like, you know, well, what do 
you do? 

408
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:00,400
It's a tough League. 
It's all right. 

409
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,900
Well, we play in the Big Ten 
like we're not going to 

410
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:04,900
Conference USA. 
And by the way, like one of 

411
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:08,200
those tough teams is Illinois 
who by the way like hire their 

412
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,200
coach for years ago. 
To and I hate to keep banging. 

413
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,000
That drum is like Ohio State 
same deal. 

414
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,000
It's like yeah their 
circumstances things like that. 

415
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,900
But it's like we can't continue 
to just be scared of all these 

416
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:20,500
other teams where they were in 
similar situations that we were 

417
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:22,000
four five years ago. 
It's not just like, all right. 

418
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,400
Well shit, Illinois is a bridge 
too far. 

419
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,900
We're never going to beat them. 
Like I'm just happy to be 500 in

420
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:28,800
the Big Ten. 
It's like that really really 

421
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,600
annoys the shit out of me 
because it's like okay fine 

422
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,300
Michigan state is at a different
level than we are and so is 

423
00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:36,500
Wisconsin nobody else the Big 
Ten. 

424
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,900
It's like we can't we should be 
to look at Illinois and they all

425
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:40,400
right. 
You know what you gonna do like 

426
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,300
that's that's complete defeat is
bullshit my mind. 

427
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:50,400
Well, you know how you get out 
of it is a really good question 

428
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,800
because normally in this 
situation you'd say, well you 

429
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,600
dig you're going to get out of 
it with developing players and 

430
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,200
bringing in new players who are 
going to assist that hasn't 

431
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,700
really worked. 
I mean if you look at the 

432
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:07,700
expanse of the Archie Miller era
thus far and I'm going to 

433
00:23:07,708 --> 00:23:13,100
preface all these comments by by
saying I have been as supportive

434
00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:15,700
of the Archie Miller era and of 
Archie Miller is head coach. 

435
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:20,700
Is anybody in the the media 
circles surrounding IU I have 

436
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:22,300
from the moment that he got 
hired. 

437
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:23,500
I thought it was the right 
higher. 

438
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:27,200
I think all of the evidence at 
the time pointed to being a 

439
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:32,800
right higher, but I'm also an 
evidence-based guy and if there 

440
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,700
was an excuse that could be made
for last year not being better. 

441
00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:41,900
It was that you Still having 
some key pieces around into 

442
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:47,000
place and to some degree. 
We have seen things round into 

443
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,400
place a bit this year. 
I think race Thompson now that 

444
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,500
he's healthy. 
We've seen what kind of 

445
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:55,800
development that he's gone 
through and he's a really 

446
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,100
important figure on this team. 
I think we've seen Armand 

447
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:02,400
Franklin obviously take a big 
developmental leap. 

448
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,400
We've got Trace Jackson Davis 
who is as good and probably 

449
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,800
better I think in certain areas 
of his game this year than it 

450
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,600
was last. 
Last year despite all of that 

451
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:17,500
this team looks worse than they 
did last year and that is hard 

452
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,500
to justify when you consider 
that you've got Al Durham a 

453
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:24,200
senior guard who's been at every
every practice. 

454
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,700
He's had it college has been 
under Archie Miller every game 

455
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:30,500
that he's played Archie Miller 
has been his coach Rob fennessy.

456
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:33,100
Same thing Junior starting point
guard. 

457
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,500
You've got, you know Jerome 
Hunter who granted is that 

458
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,000
similar injury issues, but As 
Tony mentioned on the podcast 

459
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,300
looks lost a lot of the time 
particularly on defense out 

460
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:48,000
there and then you've got 
freshmen who are coming in and 

461
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,700
having to fill major minutes. 
Yes, you're missing Joey Bronk. 

462
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,900
I don't know how much of a 
difference Joey bronc would have

463
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:55,600
made on this team. 
I certainly don't think that 

464
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,100
he's the missing piece. 
That's the difference between 

465
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:02,200
Victory and defeat but when you 
look at the lack of development 

466
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,300
with guys like Durham and 
fantasy who frankly aren't 

467
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:08,900
giving you a whole lot more now 
than they were a couple of years

468
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:10,400
ago. 
Ago and in some cases maybe 

469
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,000
slightly less and then you look 
at some of the players that have

470
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,400
come through the program the 
last couple of years Devonte 

471
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,600
green being a good example. 
There's not a lot of evidence 

472
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,300
that you can point to that says 
Indiana's going to be able to 

473
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:25,800
develop their way out of this 
melees. 

474
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,700
Like we're not I don't see a 
strong nucleus for the future 

475
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,800
with this team. 
You've got a very strong 

476
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,600
likelihood that your best player
the guy that's, you know, using 

477
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,200
31 percent of your possessions 
is going to go And declare for 

478
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,600
the NBA draft doesn't he's gonna
get drafted but that he's going 

479
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,800
to declare at the end of the 
year. 

480
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,000
You're going to lose Alder. 
Mm and all of those minutes 

481
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,000
you're going to you. 
Maybe maybe maybe lose somebody 

482
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,200
else. 
Maybe you don't but with those 

483
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,200
two players gone. 
I don't see a lot on the roster 

484
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,300
that makes me excited about the 
idea that you're going to lift 

485
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:02,700
yourself out of this. 
You've got one recruit coming in

486
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,200
next year. 
Maybe you get onto the transfer 

487
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,200
market, but now you're 
essentially just grasping at 

488
00:26:07,208 --> 00:26:11,000
straws like there's not really 
Be a solid foundation that 

489
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,300
exists right now with this 
program, you know, I like the 

490
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:17,400
Freshman but I also don't 
understand what the deal is with

491
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,700
the Freshman. 
Tray Galloway is played the most

492
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:24,000
by far he's playing but 56% 
available minutes and I love his

493
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,900
energy, but he can't shoot like 
it's fascinating like Trey 

494
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:31,000
Galloway missed another three 
yesterday. 

495
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,800
I'm not trying to pick on Trey 
Trey Galloway's 4 for 23 from 

496
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,000
three this year. 
That's 17 percent and I'm all 

497
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,900
for people. 
We wanting to take shots, but if

498
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:45,000
you're 17 percent from the ark, 
you should probably not shoot 

499
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,400
from there. 
It's it's you know, you get 

500
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,300
Anthony wheel who's barely 
playing who's 31 percent from 

501
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:55,600
three and might be better. 
If you gave him some more run 

502
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:58,500
Jordan Geronimo. 
I think everybody figured might 

503
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,500
be a little bit raw, but that 
brings us to the real big 

504
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,500
question mark which is the 
Christian Lander situation now 

505
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:09,500
Lander, Isn't playing and he's 
really when he is playing you 

506
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:12,900
can see why he's not playing. 
He's not shooting the ball. 

507
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:15,400
Well at all. 
He's shooting 27 percent from 

508
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,000
three and ten percent from two. 
He's turning the ball over on 

509
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,100
like 23% of his possessions and 
he's getting lost on defense 

510
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:27,400
constantly. 
He makes like a cameo at about 

511
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,900
the 6-minute Mark or the 8 
Minute Mark of the first half 

512
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:33,800
every game and then it's rare 
that we see him again after that

513
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,500
and You know that brings up a 
whole host of questions about 

514
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,800
okay even in as this goes right 
into the development thing and I

515
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,100
know you've got another thing on
this you want to talk about but 

516
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,500
you know with young players you 
can normally see something 

517
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:53,200
that's going to make them 
attractive and worthwhile and 

518
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,800
and and contributing at an 
effective level down the line. 

519
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,900
I've yet to see it out of 
Christian Lander. 

520
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:04,300
He you know, he dribbles around 
a lot and then he shoots and his

521
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:08,600
shot is always Off he's always 
lost defensively or maybe not 

522
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,700
all the time but a lot of the 
time and it just it makes you 

523
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:15,900
wonder okay, where's how does 
that guy develop especially 

524
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:18,800
being a five-star recruit who 
reclassified? 

525
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,900
Is he go even going to be around
long enough to develop before 

526
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,300
you have to fill that hole 
again, whether it's through 

527
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:28,300
leaving and you know declaring 
for the draft or whether it's 

528
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,900
through transferring somewhere 
else that those are the things 

529
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,200
that give me a lot of pause 
about this situation I did. 

530
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,800
We'd be having this conversation
14 games in but when you lose at

531
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,900
home to Purdue for the fifth 
time in a row is a program and 

532
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:48,100
Purdue with a collection of 
recruits that you know, 

533
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:52,100
certainly aren't better or 
bigger names than what you've 

534
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:56,000
got on your eye you roster when 
that recruit when that group of 

535
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,100
people is just able to come 
together and play harder 

536
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,700
throughout the course of the 
game. 

537
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:03,900
You have to ask yourself. 
What is the path out of this and

538
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:08,900
I don't know the answer to it. 
Yeah, I mean I'll go on the 

539
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,200
trace Jackson Davis thing before
I hit on the Lander thing. 

540
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,600
But you know, I've been thinking
more about the Jackson Davis 

541
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,300
thing since I talked to Tony 
yesterday and to me it's like 

542
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:21,400
this is a massive indictment on 
what we see going on at IU 

543
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,800
basketball right now is that 
Trace Jackson Davis and believe 

544
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,100
me. 
I understand what NBA teams are 

545
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:30,900
looking for is not always equate
to what a great college 

546
00:29:30,900 --> 00:29:33,800
basketball player is like I get 
that there's like potential and 

547
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,700
things are looking for that 
doesn't Wait to like you're good

548
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:41,100
in college that said it's like 
you have faith insanely talented

549
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:43,400
player and Trace Jackson Davis. 
Who right now. 

550
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,900
I'm like, you know tank with 
on.com is ranked as the 38th. 

551
00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:48,000
Best Prospect like on most draft
boards. 

552
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,000
He's middle to end of the second
round. 

553
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,600
Maybe not even drafted. 
Well. 

554
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,600
So again, it's not I use fault 
that the NBA is looking for 

555
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,400
something different to me where 
I think this is a massive 

556
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,800
problem is you know, why are we 
not doing more in our offense to

557
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,900
Showcase things that Jackson 
Davis can show to get ready for 

558
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:08,400
the NBA. 
Like why isn't he taking a 

559
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,600
couple threes a game by the way,
nobody else can fucking shoot it

560
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,700
so it's like doesn't hurt if he 
takes a couple shots at it. 

561
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:17,600
Like why is it he's so bad. 
I'm guarding inbounds and 

562
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,900
guarding guys deep how he's just
in the post. 

563
00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:23,100
He just does his things it's 
like he's doing exactly what 

564
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:25,500
he's good at because it looks 
like Archie's trying to win. 

565
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,000
I don't know like six big ten 
games. 

566
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,500
Like I don't understand if we're
going to be middle of the road. 

567
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:33,100
Anyway, why not put together a 
highlight package in games to 

568
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:36,600
show the things that he needs to
On why are they working on that 

569
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,000
because part of this game and 
high-level basketball is be able

570
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,900
to show I can take you as a stud
recruit and get you recruited. 

571
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:47,800
I mean get you drafted in the 
NBA and it's like, you know if 

572
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,500
Jackson David's it's you know, 
heresy to say this he would have

573
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:53,400
gone to Kentucky. 
He be catching lobs and probably

574
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,400
have been drafted last year 
because none of his faults would

575
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,100
have shown as much and it's like
if you're the next stud recruit 

576
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,700
you look around you know, where 
you're at in the Big Ten right 

577
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:02,700
now. 
It's like, all right, man, if I 

578
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:05,200
want to go just ball I can go 
to, Illinois. 

579
00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:07,600
I can go to Michigan. 
I can go to Ohio Staley I can 

580
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,600
get some Pace I can get some 
shots up. 

581
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:11,000
If I just want to go completely 
bald. 

582
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,800
I'll go to Kentucky, you know, 
if I want to get coached a 

583
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,800
little bit and also have a real 
good shot. 

584
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,500
I said, I'll go to Michigan 
State if I just want to be, you 

585
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:22,000
know, get you know, play a you 
know, bird dog style basketball,

586
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,200
you know bust ass, I'll go to 
Purdue. 

587
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,400
It's like why don't want to go 
to I you it's like you got 

588
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,000
Christian Landers a five-star 
her reclassified as playing six 

589
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,100
minutes a game. 
I got Jackson Davis who's 

590
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:34,800
insanely talented can't even get
a sniff in the first round, you 

591
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,000
know. 
His team, is it showing helping 

592
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,400
him showcase the new skills, he 
needs and the pace they play as 

593
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,000
glacial. 
So I my my stats are going to be

594
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,100
dog shit. 
You know, I think this is a real

595
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:48,500
problem. 
Like this is a massive problem 

596
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,000
that we can't effectively make 
Jackson Davis a better recruit, 

597
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:56,700
but also like I don't know why 
other recruits would want to 

598
00:31:56,708 --> 00:31:59,200
come here like there's so many 
other good options now around 

599
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,000
the Big Ten, this is hey, I'm 
going to stop there cause I got 

600
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000
three other but I don't want to 
get too far off at a tangent. 

601
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,100
But like I think it's a massive 
problem. 

602
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,000
Well, look, I think I don't 
think it has to be an either/or 

603
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,500
situation. 
I don't think that you have to 

604
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:16,600
either choose between being good
or showcasing Trace Jackson 

605
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,600
Davis. 
I just don't understand what the

606
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,000
offense what's it? 
I mean if kind of dovetails what

607
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,500
you're saying if I'm watching 
this offense as a prospect. 

608
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,300
I'm not attracted by it. 
There's very little about it. 

609
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,300
I guess I have to wear a belt 
with my shorts now coach like 

610
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:36,100
remain far back in. 
Hurry going. 

611
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:39,900
I mean, you know I if I'm a 
trace Jackson Davis type, I 

612
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:42,900
guess the attraction is oh, 
we'll throw the ball to you a 

613
00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:45,600
lot and you'll have a lot of 
room to work even though the 

614
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,800
offense actually doesn't give 
that much room to work. 

615
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,800
But you know, everything is just
predicated on this idea that 

616
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,900
they're going to you know, 
getting Trace tracks and David's

617
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:59,200
close to the basket so that he 
could make moves and lay the 

618
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:05,900
ball in and that doesn't really 
leave much room for for anything

619
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:09,000
else and when it gets defended 
well, which it's increasingly 

620
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,600
getting defended. 
Well, it creates a big problem 

621
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,000
in terms of you know, making the
whole thing look unattractive 

622
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,300
and you know, so when I think 
about the the problems from a 

623
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:25,200
recruiting perspective and Trace
Jackson Davis has you know a 

624
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,700
great offensive player but isn't
getting much traction on draft 

625
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:35,100
boards, you know, you can lay 
the blame of that at our chief. 

626
00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:38,100
You could lay the blame of that 
at racetracks and Davis's feet 

627
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,600
at the end of the day. 
I don't think that they're not 

628
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,100
having Trace Jackson Davis shoot
from Deep simply because of the 

629
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:50,300
design of the offense. 
I think he can't actually shoot 

630
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:52,700
from Deep. 
He has not attempted a single 

631
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:56,200
three-point shot in the two 
years of the year and a half 

632
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,800
that he's been at IU. 
Not one and that like know coach

633
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,600
is dumb enough to say well, 
we're not going to have you 

634
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,100
shoot this shot because it 
doesn't fit. 

635
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,500
Our offense not not today at 
least not in this day and age. 

636
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:10,900
I think it's more a matter of 
Trace Jackson Davis. 

637
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:14,400
You can certainly blame 
Indiana's offense for looking 

638
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,800
Antiquated. 
But at the end of the day I just

639
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,600
in case Jackson Davis is a 
limited player. 

640
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,300
He's an incredibly effective 
offensive player on the low 

641
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:25,199
block and yet he can't even hit 
a free throw. 

642
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:28,699
Let alone take a three-point 
shot and hit it on a regular 

643
00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:30,900
basis. 
So I don't know how much of that

644
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,900
to actually lay at the feet of 
Archie Miller from a realistic 

645
00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:37,000
perspective from a Perceptional 
perspective. 

646
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,400
It doesn't really matter because
I do think a lot of people look 

647
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,000
at how Trace Jackson Davis plays
and they wonder why isn't that 

648
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,500
guy getting more NBA traction 
and I think there's reasonable 

649
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:50,900
explanations for it, which I 
just laid out, but the reality 

650
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:55,699
is Whether or not there are 
reasonable explanations for it. 

651
00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:59,400
I you as a program. 
And Archie Miller is a coach end

652
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,300
up getting blamed for the lack 
of traction and I think on the 

653
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:08,400
recruiting Trail, it gives a lot
of traction to other programs to

654
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,500
say. 
Well you could be a great player

655
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:13,100
and go to IU and actually your 
draft stock would get worse not 

656
00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:15,900
better because it's not only as 
it happened with Trace Jackson 

657
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:18,000
Davis. 
It also happened with Romeo 

658
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,400
Langford, and it's about to 
happen with Christian Lander and

659
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,400
that's a really hard. 
So much of recruiting is about 

660
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,100
perception. 
It's hard to get around that 

661
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:31,500
perception when the Lander thing
II equate this a lot to what you

662
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:33,900
said a bunch of times this year 
in football, which is true. 

663
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,300
It's like we're as I you 
football fans were not used to 

664
00:35:36,308 --> 00:35:38,400
what goes on at high level 
football because we haven't been

665
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,200
dealing with it. 
You know, I hate to say it as IU

666
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,900
basketball fans. 
We haven't really been dealing 

667
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:46,400
much with you know, five-star 
recruits in the way it goes and 

668
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,200
you know, the way it goes is 
again, I hate to say the exact 

669
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,900
same story given by neighbor 
Robert for Michigan State. 

670
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,200
He's like when he's Like oh you 
got Christian land or five so I 

671
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,100
could be starting like what do 
you mean is what we don't start 

672
00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:57,500
them like you're not going to 
get any more good recruits. 

673
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:00,100
Like he's got a start and Lander
we seen him. 

674
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:02,500
He's not quite ready yet. 
He definitely is on the court 

675
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:04,500
doesn't look great. 
But the fact that you have a 

676
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:07,200
five-star her reclassified. 
He didn't reclassifies you to 

677
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,900
get five years of tutelage under
Archie. 

678
00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:12,200
Like he re classifieds we can go
to the NBA and if you have a 

679
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,000
five star who reclassifies, you 
know, this isn't Archie doesn't 

680
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,100
have its is not Bob and I guess 
not 1987. 

681
00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:20,900
You can't just say hey, you know
go sit on the bench for two 

682
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:23,600
seasons or five games and your 
we're going to You had to play 

683
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:27,400
these guys want to play and all 
the a you buddies a Christian my

684
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,300
under eye like alright, man. 
Well, that's not the program. 

685
00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:32,100
I want to go to like he's not, 
you know, they're blaming the 

686
00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:34,800
program as much as they may or 
may not think Lander has it or 

687
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,400
doesn't have it but it's the 
perception of a reclassified 

688
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,000
five-star just playing three 
minutes of game. 

689
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:44,200
That's to me that's an awful 
look and that's just that's 

690
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,800
going to be so recruited against
us and you just have to play a 

691
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,400
moral. 
You've got to get him more time 

692
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,700
on the court. 
Let him play through some of 

693
00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:56,200
this. 
Because you know is those able 

694
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,500
to do that here and there like 
some coaches can do that 

695
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:00,500
Calipari can do it. 
But like they have a resume to 

696
00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:02,700
back it up. 
Archie doesn't end. 

697
00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:05,700
Well, so I don't know. 
I think I think it's a lot of 

698
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:08,300
bad winds prevailing here 
against us. 

699
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,400
So I'm going to actually take a 
similar tack on this that I took

700
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,100
to the trace Jackson Davis 
thing. 

701
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,100
From the standpoint of what's 
happening right now Christian 

702
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:20,900
Lander isn't playing because 
he's not ready. 

703
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:23,900
He's not good enough to play in 
the Big Ten. 

704
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:29,700
I heard that like, I'm Andy 
night and like no amount of even

705
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:32,100
people saying well, let's just 
play him and see what he can do.

706
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,200
We've seen what he can do. 
It's not much it's and I'm not 

707
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,800
trying to be critical of the 
young man. 

708
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,800
He's just not good at the things
he needs to be good at in order 

709
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:49,000
to be a tribute ER right now and
the problem I think for Indiana 

710
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:54,400
is that there had to be at some 
point along the way an analysis 

711
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,700
of risk reward for taking 
Christian Lander on now, I'm 

712
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:03,200
sure that what the original 
thought was was that well, okay,

713
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,700
we're going to he's going to 
reclassify he's still got a high

714
00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:09,100
school seniors body and a high 
school seniors mind, but we're 

715
00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:13,100
going to have a whole offseason 
of physical development and of 

716
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:16,300
film study and of all of these 
things and then we're going to 

717
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:19,200
have a bunch of games against 
lesser opponents that we can get

718
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,200
him 25, you know minutes a game 
so that he can just learn how to

719
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,800
play and then by the time the 
real games roll around he'll be 

720
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,000
ready to go that none of none of
that happened and I don't know 

721
00:38:30,008 --> 00:38:34,000
if it's if it's reasonable to 
blame Archie Miller for all of 

722
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,800
that falling apart since you 
know, the no one knew what was 

723
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,100
going to happen with covid and 
no one knew what the schedule 

724
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:43,900
was going to look like and it's 
not like you have Have a 

725
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:47,500
five-star recruit and you 
haven't been getting five-star 

726
00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:50,300
recruits on a regular basis. 
If you have one call you up and 

727
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:53,600
say coach I want to reclassify 
and I want to come to school. 

728
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,600
You're not going to be like hey,
you know, we're good to fly a 

729
00:38:55,607 --> 00:38:58,100
kite this out. 
But there's a responsibility 

730
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,000
that happens when you agree to 
bring that person on and like 

731
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,600
you said you at that point you 
are For Better or For Worse, you

732
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,200
kind of handcuffed to the 
process of having that player 

733
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,900
play regularly of growing with 
that player of going through the

734
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:17,700
ups and downs. ons so my big 
thing with Christian Lander is 

735
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,900
at this point in the season with
not a whole lot to lose moving 

736
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:28,200
forward, you know, you're going 
to either have to elect to not 

737
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,500
play him at all because he can't
contribute or you're going to 

738
00:39:31,508 --> 00:39:35,900
have to like to play them 
regularly and neither of those 

739
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:39,400
scenarios sound particularly 
good to me because if you if you

740
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,200
don't plan I think the scenario 
that you're talking about does 

741
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,200
play out where You know, what? 
What what Guardian is going to 

742
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,700
look at the Indiana situation 
and say well that a five-star 

743
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:52,700
recruit that they played, you 
know, eighteen percent of 

744
00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:56,900
available minutes in a season 
and you know that guy like the 

745
00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:00,300
whole idea was that guy was 
going to reclassify and then be 

746
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:03,100
on this path to the NBA and he 
looked pretty good in high 

747
00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:05,600
school everybody agreed. 
He was a five-star recruit then 

748
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,600
so what happened it must have 
been something in Indiana 

749
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,000
whether or not that's fair that 
becomes perception on the flip 

750
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:16,000
side if you're playing this guy 
on a Regular basis as the 

751
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,800
recruiting numbers say that you 
should you're putting your team 

752
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,800
in real grave danger against 
these that you know, the 

753
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,700
Michigan State's the Iowa's the 
Michigan's the Illinois is that 

754
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:31,200
you have to play in the next, 
you know, 10 or 10 or 11 or 12 

755
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,000
games. 
So it's a bad situation. 

756
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,300
And again, I don't know how much
you blame Archie Miller for 

757
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,400
Christian Landers inability to 
execute on the floor right now 

758
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,600
because he hasn't had that much 
time with him, but I do think 

759
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,200
that you have to Again similar 
to the Romeo Langford thing 

760
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,500
think that this was a it was a 
combination of bad timing and 

761
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:52,300
bad execution. 
But all that everybody's going 

762
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:56,100
to remember is that it was an 
unfulfilled piece of potential 

763
00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:58,000
that happened under the IU 
program. 

764
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,300
Yeah. 
So I mean all of this leads to I

765
00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:05,000
think there's long-term 
recruiting problems this team is

766
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,500
going to have and that's what 
we're going to need to get out 

767
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:11,400
of this because Player 
Development doesn't seem to be 

768
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,200
something that's that's happened
here and you know, No, I'll just

769
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,100
I'll kind of say the quiet part 
out loud. 

770
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:19,600
You know Archie's by out. 
She comes into play kind of 

771
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,200
August of 2022. 
No University is gonna buy 

772
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,300
anybody out in the middle of a 
covid crisis when the money's 

773
00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:28,800
tight. 
So we're this is this is our lot

774
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,400
for the next two seasons 
probably. 

775
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:33,700
You know, it's going to be 
interesting moving forward 

776
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:37,800
because you know, first of all, 
I don't want to see anybody get 

777
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,400
fired. 
I don't I you know, and as I 

778
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,800
said at the beginning of the 
year, I don't know how much we 

779
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,700
can really take out of this 
season. 

780
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,400
It's I'm not signing excuse. 
I'm just saying I don't know 

781
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,600
from a evaluation standpoint in 
terms of the long-term 

782
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,000
ramifications of things how much
anybody can take out of the 

783
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:03,600
season I do know this that if 
this Spirals really badly down 

784
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,700
the stretch. 
That's that's a really bad. 

785
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:12,200
That's a bad sign and I don't 
know what the what the I don't 

786
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,700
know what the justification is 
at that point for staying the 

787
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:19,000
course other than money money is
a hell of a thing. 

788
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,500
But but I also think that you 
know, one of the things I 

789
00:42:24,508 --> 00:42:29,100
noticed and I've been you know 
monitoring people long enough on

790
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,600
social media and I talked with a
lot of people so there is 

791
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,300
absolutely zero Buzz among fans 
around this program. 

792
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:39,200
There's no excitement. 
I want to be mentioned I think 

793
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,500
interest is just nosed. 
I mean one of my friends that I 

794
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:45,800
was texting with before the 
podcast texted me, you know, 

795
00:42:45,808 --> 00:42:47,900
there's something deeper. 
I never heard so many friends 

796
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:50,400
who either didn't watch the game
because they knew what would 

797
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,700
happen or those like me who 
turned it off with ten minutes 

798
00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:56,300
to go for the same reason and I 
mean there were some people that

799
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,300
didn't even know the game was 
happening and then it just kind 

800
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:02,800
of popped up. 
It's like oh, yeah, Indiana 

801
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,900
Purdue die mean you can never 
have imagined that that that 

802
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:09,300
situation. 
It's pretty yeah, it's funny. 

803
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:10,800
I had hold on. 
Let me check. 

804
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:15,400
You know, I mean, I think the 
lack of excitement. 

805
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,300
I mean, it's not just the games 
and the lack of excitement in 

806
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,600
the games, but there's just very
little to look forward to with 

807
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,100
this team. 
Like there's there, you know, 

808
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:25,900
it's nice to see Armand Franklin
continuing develop and it's nice

809
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:30,300
to see Trace Jackson Davis 
playing out there, but it's a 

810
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:34,100
team that just Stat for large 
stretches of games in some cases

811
00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:38,300
whole games just doesn't look 
like it wants to be there and it

812
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:41,900
I think has created an 
environment with the fan base 

813
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:45,500
where most of them at least the 
ones that are vocal on Twitter 

814
00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:48,500
and in other corners of the 
internet, and I know that's not 

815
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:51,200
everybody but even people that I
talk to that aren't on social 

816
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,600
media. 
They just they're done with 

817
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,100
this. 
They're done with the era. 

818
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,800
They don't think Archie Miller 
is a coach that is up to the 

819
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,300
task of being an Indiana. 
And it's hard to really have a 

820
00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:07,200
lot of justification that you 
can put in front of people to 

821
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,500
counter that I mean even even 
those people that have been 

822
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:15,200
pretty defensive or or have been
willing to defend Archie Miller.

823
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,000
There was a stat that someone 
tweeted yesterday Archie Miller 

824
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,400
is now 2 and 20 against Purdue, 
Michigan, Ohio State and 

825
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,700
Wisconsin, that's really bad and
granted that's cherry-picked. 

826
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:27,700
I mean we could point out. 
He's beaten Michigan State what 

827
00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:33,200
three times but still like to 
that like those four programs 

828
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,400
have been among the best in the 
Big Ten at various times over 

829
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,000
the course of the last four 
years. 

830
00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:44,500
And Indiana has just not managed
to be competitive really against

831
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:48,000
any of them for any stretch of 
time and that you know, so you 

832
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,700
create this this trough of 
excitement with IU basketball 

833
00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:55,400
and you're going to potentially 
miss out on a tournament where 

834
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,600
all the games are being played 
in the state of Indiana and then

835
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,500
you're going to go through a 
whole offseason with one 

836
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:03,200
recruit. 
One grad transfer that we know 

837
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,100
of losing your best player and 
then you're going to run it all 

838
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:08,000
back next year and expect it to 
be better. 

839
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,300
That's that's a really 
questionable environment and you

840
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:16,500
know just in terms I mean is 
like crane was saved in large 

841
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:22,600
part by winning the 2016 Big Ten
title and it kind of covered 

842
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,200
over the fact that at the 
beginning of that year. 

843
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,500
A lot of people thought that 
crane wasn't going to survive 

844
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:31,400
that season, you know, maybe 
that's how bad that 2016 season 

845
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,400
started and you know, they 
righted the ship but then they 

846
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,400
were right back to where they 
were the next year which kind of

847
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:37,900
led into the current 
predicament. 

848
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:42,600
So I do I just don't know. 
I mean I again I agree with you 

849
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,900
and that it seems unlikely 
anything would happen and I'm 

850
00:45:45,908 --> 00:45:47,500
not calling for anything to 
happen. 

851
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:52,800
But I do also think that the 
apathy and the disillusionment 

852
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,600
and the Detachment that's going 
on with so much of the fan base 

853
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,400
has got to be setting off all 
kinds of red alerts in and 

854
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,800
around the I am because this is 
just this is about the this is 

855
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,600
the exact antithesis of what 
Indiana basketball normally does

856
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,700
and what it normally means to 
people and that translates into 

857
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:14,300
Dollars it translates into 
donations that translates into 

858
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:18,200
interest for the athletic 
department and it's just as good

859
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,700
as the football season was this 
is almost been the exact 

860
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:23,100
opposite. 
Well, it's funny. 

861
00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:25,100
So it's sorry. 
I don't mean to interrupt you in

862
00:46:25,107 --> 00:46:28,100
the mid of that but I have a 
buddy very similar text. 

863
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:29,100
I got from him. 
He's like dude. 

864
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:31,300
I have no one I can text like 
all the people I style you 

865
00:46:31,308 --> 00:46:34,100
basketball with just our out 
like they've all checked out. 

866
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,300
It's funny. 
I was thinking about football as

867
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:38,600
you were talking. 
It's like I've said this many 

868
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,200
times before, you know in the 
last since we graduated and you 

869
00:46:41,207 --> 00:46:45,400
know, the last 2025 years, 
there's been like an 18-month 

870
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,500
stretch where I've been super 
excited and very happy about IU 

871
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,600
basketball and that's like the 
basically the to you know, the 

872
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,200
to seller years that you know, 
12 13. 

873
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:58,000
We've had a longer stretch of 
football the last two seasons 

874
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,800
where it's like I'm excited and 
very happy about the direction 

875
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,400
of The football program is going
in excited for Seasons like who 

876
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,000
would have ever thought that 
like I'm going to have a 24 

877
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,900
month period of being more happy
with football in 20 years, then 

878
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:12,200
like I don't have that in 
basketball. 

879
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,000
And so everything you said is 
spot-on. 

880
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,100
I'm not going to rehash it 
because you nailed it, but I 

881
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:21,200
will say this like it's this is 
a bigger problem because it'd be

882
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,000
one thing if you were coming off
of you know, the night era or 

883
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,500
the Davis final four like some 
galvanizing moment or like but 

884
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:33,600
this is coming off of 20. 
Years of slow apathy and slow 

885
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,600
decline where you have, you know
a I'm gonna do this under a 

886
00:47:37,607 --> 00:47:39,300
minute. 
I promise like you have the I 

887
00:47:39,308 --> 00:47:41,500
don't want to rehash all that 
you have like the fracture of 

888
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:44,200
the fan base with the night 
Davis thing that you have, you 

889
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,000
know, Davis Kind of it slides 
down. 

890
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:50,600
Then you have you know, the 
Sampson years and you have those

891
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,700
issues you have the the dockage 
two-month period That's throw it

892
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:55,200
in there. 
But then you have Creed where 

893
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:56,900
it's like you have a little bit 
of ups and downs. 

894
00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:59,400
We have a divided fan base, but 
you have apathy throughout the 

895
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,800
Korean years, and now you have 
just Kind of a general malaise 

896
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,000
and for your apathy under Archie
like this is not good. 

897
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,900
Everything you've laid out is 
true and the apathy is real like

898
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:14,700
it really is and you you've 
seated you know, and not to 

899
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:18,200
mention under these years. 
You had a run at Purdue where 

900
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,400
they had a group that Purdue 
love with the ha me. 

901
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,500
That's a hurt the Robbie Hummel.
You'll each one more group. 

902
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,600
You had a great group of 
cattails swanigan. 

903
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,700
You have the run with Butler 
like you've had a lot of teams 

904
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:30,900
with in Indiana kind of grab 
some of that. 

905
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,400
Attention. 
It's like oh, yeah, if you want 

906
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,700
to watch cool Indiana basketball
that we're still seeing go watch

907
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:38,600
Butler go to Hinkle. 
I mean shit go to go to MacKay 

908
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,600
for a couple of years there that
they're playing the kind of 

909
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,000
basketball you want to see you 
know, and that takes its toll 

910
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,700
you have the Pacers doing really
well. 

911
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:48,500
It's like, all right. 
Well, you know, I'm going to 

912
00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:49,700
check out my start watching the 
Pacers. 

913
00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:52,000
I know I did that. 
I watched the entire Pacers game

914
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,400
this morning. 
I was hassling to the IU game 

915
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,700
last night. 
Like these are all real things 

916
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:59,800
and you know coming off of a 
two-year pandemic where the 

917
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,000
university is going to need some
Honey, I am concerned because 

918
00:49:03,008 --> 00:49:05,700
they're going to probably wake 
up and not see you no interest 

919
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:08,900
in tickets ticket renewal 
Seasons like and this is a god. 

920
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:14,500
This is such a small small 
notice, but they sold cutouts 

921
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:18,100
you could buy for the Varsity 
Club from both football and 

922
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:21,500
basketball and football. 
Both of the end zones were 

923
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:24,800
filled with cutouts like there 
is I don't know the numbers but 

924
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,900
it looked very full with a lot 
of cutouts. 

925
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:29,900
I don't see a lot of cutouts in 
the basketball arena like that 

926
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:33,000
the lower circuit Coal is all 
former players they put in 

927
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,600
there. 
I know people are buying them. 

928
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,500
This is the most unscientific 
research I've seen but on the 

929
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,900
large shots of Assembly Hall. 
I don't see as many cutouts as I

930
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:44,100
saw for football. 
I know I bought a cut out for 

931
00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:46,200
football. 
I didn't buy one for basketball.

932
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:48,200
I would have never done that 20 
years ago. 

933
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,200
I'm not the barometer of this 
but I'm with you I think just 

934
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,600
the overall General malaise 
interest is is a problem. 

935
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,000
But I also I will just end with 
this flip side like I do Wonder 

936
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,900
does it matter because people 
are still giving her. 

937
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:03,900
RC club like I have season 
tickets my seats have it moved 

938
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:05,600
down much in the last four or 
five years. 

939
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,700
People are still giving money at
higher levels than I do, you 

940
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:13,200
know, if people who give to The 
Varsity Club and the number of 

941
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,300
tickets are still sold desire. 
I you care that, you know, most 

942
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:20,300
people outside of the giving 
public don't give a shit about 

943
00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:22,400
basketball anymore. 
Oh, I think they care. 

944
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,800
Look. 
I I think it's easy for fans to 

945
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,600
assume that if things aren't 
going well on the floor and 

946
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,400
immediate action isn't taken 
that somehow the athletic 

947
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,500
department doesn't care. 
Like that was always the line 

948
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:36,300
with football. 
Oh, they don't care about 

949
00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:38,900
football. 
I don't agree with that. 

950
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:42,600
I think that there's a lot of 
people from from Scott Dolson on

951
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,800
down who care very much 
particularly about IU 

952
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,600
basketball. 
I mean, even if you wanted to 

953
00:50:46,607 --> 00:50:50,700
make the cultural argument that 
I you football was was lower on 

954
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:53,100
the priority list. 
I don't think anybody could make

955
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:55,800
the argument that IU basketball 
is low on the priority list it, 

956
00:50:55,808 --> 00:50:58,500
you know fan the finances bear 
that out. 

957
00:50:59,900 --> 00:51:04,200
I just think Like everything on 
paper about this situation says 

958
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,100
that the situation should have 
been working and it isn't 

959
00:51:07,100 --> 00:51:11,300
working and sometimes that 
happens and it sucks and I you 

960
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:17,800
know, the I don't think that 
there's anybody in the athletic 

961
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,800
department who would seriously 
entertain the idea that yes, we 

962
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,100
want to be a mediocre basketball
program. 

963
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:26,200
We are mediocre basketball 
program and have been for a 

964
00:51:26,207 --> 00:51:30,500
while and that precedes Archie 
Miller and it precedes Tom 

965
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:33,000
crean. 
This is something that really 

966
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:38,100
the course on this was set 25 
years ago 30 years ago through a

967
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:40,700
variety of factors that we've 
covered on this podcast before 

968
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:45,200
it doesn't have to remain that 
way and I guess that's the big 

969
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,800
question mark that I would have 
because if things are just not 

970
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,400
working then and we've talked 
about this a lot the big 

971
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,400
programs the ones that have 
really invested their identity 

972
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,900
in basketball. 
They do something they do. 

973
00:52:01,100 --> 00:52:07,000
Make changes and you know again 
it's it doesn't have to be that 

974
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,200
way and we've certainly seen 
situations where they've you 

975
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,500
know programs have waited a 
little bit longer than others 

976
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:16,600
and it's worked out for them. 
But I also know that from the 

977
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:21,100
standpoint of where Indiana 
wants to be this is a step back 

978
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:24,500
from what was the Tom crean era 
and that was a judge to be not 

979
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:28,200
sufficient and accurately so I 
mean, you know, the there was a 

980
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,700
lot about the Tom crean era. 
Then I think we can look back on

981
00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:35,000
with some positivity the Big Ten
titles and the the trip to the 

982
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,700
Sweet 16 certainly, but there 
were also the troughs that 

983
00:52:38,700 --> 00:52:40,900
shouldn't exist for a program of
Indiana's caliber. 

984
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,000
Now, you've got the trops with 
none of the Peaks. 

985
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:49,600
And again, I was optimistic that
this year marketing slogan for 

986
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,500
slogan for the year all the 
trucks Ross but no Paula traps 

987
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:54,100
out of the Peaks. 
I was very young. 

988
00:52:54,300 --> 00:52:58,300
I was very optimistic this year 
with who they had coming back 

989
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,000
and who they had coming in. 
That Indiana was going to be at 

990
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,600
least like in the top five or 
six conversation in the 

991
00:53:04,607 --> 00:53:08,700
conference and I just don't see 
a route to that at this point. 

992
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:13,700
Like you could make an argument 
that Indiana's had they've had 

993
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:18,200
one of the easiest runs so far 
as from a schedule perspective 

994
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,400
and they're only three and four 
and that's about to get 

995
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,300
significantly harder as you go 
through the remainder of the 

996
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:26,900
schedule will have to wait and 
see what happens. 

997
00:53:26,900 --> 00:53:28,400
Obviously. 
I'm not going to shovel dirt on 

998
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,500
the team yet, but I do think 
there's a lot of cause to be 

999
00:53:32,500 --> 00:53:35,800
concerned about what direction 
this is currently headed. 

1000
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:41,300
And I don't know what you do 
long-term about it because 

1001
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:45,300
again, you've got a there's a 
lot of balances and checks that 

1002
00:53:45,300 --> 00:53:47,400
you have to think about with all
these things and the finances 

1003
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,800
are definitely one of them. 
I just something has to happen 

1004
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,200
on the floor to get people 
excited about IU basketball 

1005
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,100
again. 
Otherwise, I think that you 

1006
00:53:55,100 --> 00:53:59,900
know, you're you're the 
direction that you go is pretty 

1007
00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:01,400
much. 
Has decided for you at that 

1008
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,500
point unless you've just unless 
at this point you've said we 

1009
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:07,400
don't know how to fix this and I
don't think that the I don't 

1010
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:08,900
think Indiana is at that point 
yet. 

1011
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:14,300
Yeah, so it's tough. 
This is not the conversation. 

1012
00:54:14,300 --> 00:54:18,600
I wanted to have at this point 
in the season and I'd love to 

1013
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,200
say that, you know things can 
still get better and maybe they 

1014
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,000
will get better. 
I just when I look across the 

1015
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,200
numbers when I look at the games
themselves, and the way the 

1016
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,300
teams apply was not falling 
asleep through most of the Game,

1017
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:34,200
I watched the entire thing 
yesterday and I'm envious of you

1018
00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:39,500
that you didn't watch all of it 
because what I saw was the same 

1019
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:42,700
film I've seen over and over 
again from this team not just 

1020
00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:44,600
this year, but the last couple 
of years. 

1021
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:52,500
It's just it's a it's it's a not
fun team to watch and you can be

1022
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:55,700
a not fun team to Watch and Win 
games and I'm okay with that. 

1023
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:58,300
You can be a fun team to watch 
and lose games. 

1024
00:54:58,300 --> 00:55:03,100
I'm less okay with that but to 
be not fun and a lose games is 

1025
00:55:03,100 --> 00:55:07,800
is pretty unpardonable and and 
particularly when we see so much

1026
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:13,200
good basketball going on across 
the Big Ten right now, you know,

1027
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,300
I just I keep scratching my head
and I keep thinking, you know, 

1028
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,900
people have said well, you can't
compare like Juwan Howard to 

1029
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:22,600
Archie Miller situation. 
Yes, Juwan Howard inherited a 

1030
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,500
much better situation. 
What about Brad Underwood? 

1031
00:55:25,100 --> 00:55:27,200
Like, you know, what about this 
situation that Brad Underwood 

1032
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,900
inherited at, Illinois? 
He's managed to figure out a way

1033
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:34,000
to make that happen. 
How do you like? 

1034
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,400
What's the explanation for Chris
holtmann who has managed at Ohio

1035
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,300
State to you know, certainly not
like the world on fire, but he's

1036
00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:46,700
been to I think what a couple of
tournaments now, they would have

1037
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:48,400
gone to a third tournament last 
year. 

1038
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,900
They were a five seed and in the
first year that he was there and

1039
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:55,000
you know in the second he I mean
they've been past the first 

1040
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,000
round in both of the years. 
They've been to the tournament 

1041
00:55:57,300 --> 00:56:00,000
that's not great. 
But that was like the minimum 

1042
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,200
Asians I would have had for 
Archie Miller coming into this 

1043
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:08,500
situation and the lack of 
inherited Talent argument which 

1044
00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:11,500
we use to defend Archie Miller 
is over at this point. 

1045
00:56:11,500 --> 00:56:13,900
This is all his talent. 
These are all his players. 

1046
00:56:13,900 --> 00:56:16,600
This is his system. 
Where's the beef? 

1047
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:20,300
Like, where are the results? 
Where's where is the thing that 

1048
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:24,000
you can anchor yourself to and 
say that's the identity of IU 

1049
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,100
basketball. 
That's why they win games and 

1050
00:56:27,100 --> 00:56:28,800
that's why they're in other 
games instead. 

1051
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,200
It's almost like you have to 
Search for reasons, why are you 

1052
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,800
won games? 
And that's a really bad spot to 

1053
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,700
be in when I just I'll end with 
this. 

1054
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:41,400
I guess I gets interesting. 
I it drives me bonkers that 

1055
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,600
argument of like when you look 
you look at Juwan Howard what 

1056
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,300
they're going to Michigan and 
people are like oh but you know 

1057
00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:48,600
different circumstances, you 
can't connect that. 

1058
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:53,100
It's like we've become such a 
victim fan base when like, I 

1059
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:56,500
remember talking with the guys 
from Ohio State before the IU 

1060
00:56:56,500 --> 00:57:00,000
Ohio State game the guys from 
Leavenworth. 

1061
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:02,900
Years and they were like, yeah, 
man, we expect to win every game

1062
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,900
like we're not like we're not 
airing it's like the most 

1063
00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:08,600
arrogant thing to say to be 
like, we're not arrogant but we 

1064
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,200
just were confident but it's 
like it's true. 

1065
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,800
They're like, yeah, we expect to
win every Big Ten game by 14 or 

1066
00:57:12,808 --> 00:57:14,700
more points. 
I can we play Alabama we expect 

1067
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:17,500
to win we expect to beat 
everybody like and we're pissing

1068
00:57:17,500 --> 00:57:19,900
we don't like and that's the way
we go into it. 

1069
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:21,600
So like yeah, we're not scared 
of anybody. 

1070
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,100
We think you have a good team, 
but you know, we're expecting to

1071
00:57:24,107 --> 00:57:26,500
win every Big Ten game. 
We expect to beat Clemson like 

1072
00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:29,900
we expect to meet everybody and 
yeah, it's just it's weird. 

1073
00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:33,200
That we you know, I you had that
exceptionalism in the 90s and 

1074
00:57:33,207 --> 00:57:37,400
now we're at a point where you 
know, if if Ohio State you let's

1075
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,100
say Ryan day just left and they 
hired a new coach and then two 

1076
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:42,200
years in a row. 
They're 500. 

1077
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,400
The Big Ten their fan base is 
going to be like, yeah, but you 

1078
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,100
know, you know text you know, 
but a Texas has a different role

1079
00:57:48,100 --> 00:57:49,300
than they had different 
advantages. 

1080
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:51,700
You can't do that like oh, you 
know, well, you know, Kansas 

1081
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:53,800
State's having to run but you 
know, they have like they make 

1082
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,500
the fuck this like no like we 
need a new coaching. 

1083
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:58,500
This is bullshit. 
Like they'd be going bonkers. 

1084
00:57:58,500 --> 00:58:00,600
They wouldn't be like well, you 
know, Michigan Couple years 

1085
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,300
honest with Harbaugh and you 
know, you got you got to give 

1086
00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:05,000
him credit like they wouldn't be
justifying away things other 

1087
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,400
schools and I it drives me nuts 
because everything you said is 

1088
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,700
dead on I've been hitting the 
brain Underwood thing for years 

1089
00:58:10,700 --> 00:58:13,200
because it's like he's 4 years, 
but it's like I'm tired of us 

1090
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,400
looking around and like oh, 
yeah. 

1091
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,200
Well, how could we ever get to 
the loss of Michigan basketball?

1092
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,300
It's like no with we are there 
like, let's stop just compared 

1093
00:58:20,300 --> 00:58:23,300
to everybody else. 
Like why are we there a lot of 

1094
00:58:23,300 --> 00:58:28,800
it is just the IU basketball fan
psyche is very good. 

1095
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,300
Maybe not but maybe not. 
Permanently broken but it's 

1096
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:35,800
certainly fractured because it's
been an awful last 25 years. 

1097
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,200
It just has been I mean it the 
the last year's of the night era

1098
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,100
the firing the Mike Davis era 
everything that's happened since

1099
00:58:43,100 --> 00:58:48,800
then, there's been such little 
every every everything that good

1100
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,400
that happens. 
It's like you're waiting for the

1101
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:55,300
other shoe to drop and there's 
Anna drops and then it drops and

1102
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:59,000
then it's just like, okay. 
Well, here we go again and it's 

1103
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,300
at This point I think a lot of 
are you fans have just been 

1104
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:05,700
conditioned to think of 
themselves as just another 

1105
00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:08,700
basketball program because 
that's what I use been for the 

1106
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:13,400
longest time a quarter Century. 
Now with a couple of small peaks

1107
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:17,500
in you know, you know a in a 
year or two and that's it. 

1108
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:23,100
And so I think to some degree 
Indiana fans have had to become 

1109
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:27,300
almost reflexively defensive 
about even rooting for the team 

1110
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,800
loudly because they're always 
afraid that The team's going to 

1111
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,900
let them down at key points and 
that's more or less what's 

1112
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:36,200
happened? 
And that's that's a hell of a 

1113
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,100
place to be for a fanbase. 
You know, it's it's a situation 

1114
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:44,800
that I think as we get closer to
the end of this season is going 

1115
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:49,900
to manifest itself in ugly or 
ways because It's either going 

1116
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:52,300
to be people getting really 
really angry or it's just going 

1117
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:56,900
to people not paying attention. 
And what's making it worse is 

1118
00:59:57,100 --> 01:00:01,400
how obvious the problems are 
it's not like there's some 

1119
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,300
complicated basketball equation 
that you need to solve in order 

1120
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:06,200
to figure out what's wrong with 
IU basketball. 

1121
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,600
Like it's very obvious to 
anybody who's got even a modicum

1122
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,200
of understanding of the game 
watching the game that you know,

1123
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,800
the team doesn't play hard a lot
of the time they play tentative 

1124
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:20,700
they play scared and And you 
know and they rely entirely on 

1125
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:24,700
one player to do the majority of
the scoring and the other player

1126
01:00:24,700 --> 01:00:29,100
to clean up the garbage and 
score points on the post and 

1127
01:00:29,100 --> 01:00:31,600
everybody else is just kind of 
like what is your role here? 

1128
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:32,900
Exactly. 
What do you do? 

1129
01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:39,100
It's it's a really bad spot to 
be in so I don't know what else 

1130
01:00:39,100 --> 01:00:43,100
there is to say I do know that 
Purdue is having a fun time 

1131
01:00:43,100 --> 01:00:46,400
rubbing this in they tweeted out
a graphic. 

1132
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,300
I don't know if you saw the 
Feels Like Home graphic. 

1133
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:53,400
Twitter yet but you know, it's 
it lays out the five wins in a 

1134
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,500
row that they've had now had an 
assembly hall and feels like 

1135
01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,300
we're back in the 1920s and 
1930s again, you know weird 

1136
01:01:00,300 --> 01:01:04,100
Purdue was clearly the better 
team clearly the better program 

1137
01:01:04,100 --> 01:01:08,200
and Indiana was just kind of off
in the wake of Purdue. 

1138
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,200
Let's not get political but it's
like we have the entire Trump 

1139
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,900
Arrow will come and Gone without
an i you win against Purdue. 

1140
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,900
Well, that's just a Time marker 
but it's true. 

1141
01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:18,700
Yes. 
I mean like, I mean, it's It's 

1142
01:01:19,100 --> 01:01:21,800
it is they squeezed all five 
wins. 

1143
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,700
I think an assembly all during 
during this this last four and a

1144
01:01:24,700 --> 01:01:28,100
half years and you know, I mean,
but it's also longer than that. 

1145
01:01:28,100 --> 01:01:33,900
I mean, it's something like I 
think since 2009 or 2008 Purdue 

1146
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,500
has I think there are like 20 
and 5 or something like that 

1147
01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:40,600
against Indiana. 
Like it has got five wins during

1148
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:45,700
that era and four of those winds
came in the 2012 and 2013 

1149
01:01:45,700 --> 01:01:47,500
seasons. 
When what's up? 

1150
01:01:47,700 --> 01:01:51,600
Let's just got it. 
It's just it's the final of the 

1151
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:56,400
take-home point is something's 
got to change take it the output

1152
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:00,500
the output on the floor has to 
change because people are just 

1153
01:02:00,700 --> 01:02:03,800
giving up on IU basketball young
people. 

1154
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:09,000
It's just kind of another thing 
that's there and you know your 

1155
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,900
school like do you see I know 
you want to wrap up like do you 

1156
01:02:11,900 --> 01:02:15,900
see the students just having a 
lack of a lack of passion about 

1157
01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:17,700
basketballs? 
They did 15 years ago. 

1158
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,700
Oh completely. 
We it's not the same at all. 

1159
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:21,500
It's just and I wouldn't expect 
it to me. 

1160
01:02:21,500 --> 01:02:23,200
That's not the students fault. 
Like you got it. 

1161
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,600
It's like I said with football 
you have to give the students 

1162
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,600
something to cheer for and seven
to feel excited about being a 

1163
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,900
part of you know, the kids they 
still like going to Assembly 

1164
01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:36,000
Hall but it's just not that big 
of a deal because with the 

1165
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,400
exception of those two seasons 
really in the early part of the 

1166
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:45,200
2010s. 
It's been worse versus better 

1167
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,300
like it's been most of the time 
which your students were. 

1168
01:02:48,500 --> 01:02:50,300
Eight years old for ya years 
old. 

1169
01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:53,500
Yeah. 
I mean it's there's there's just

1170
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:57,000
no history right now for people 
who are in college to really 

1171
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,800
point to you've got two maybe 
three seasons if you want to 

1172
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,600
really get if you want to count 
that 2016 season, that's 

1173
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,200
something to really get excited 
about that's it over the course 

1174
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:12,900
of a 20-year span of time and 
that's that's the entire College

1175
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,400
population right now. 
The undergraduate population of 

1176
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,700
Indiana is essentially lived in 
an era where the Last time 

1177
01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:20,800
Indiana made something happen 
where they were really 

1178
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,600
nationally relevant. 
They were maybe 10 11 12 years 

1179
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,000
old. 
And the last time Indiana was in

1180
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,200
a final four. 
Most of them weren't born yet. 

1181
01:03:28,900 --> 01:03:31,800
Yeah, how do you sustain? 
How do you sustain that? 

1182
01:03:32,100 --> 01:03:34,600
Like, that's that's that's where
the issue should be. 

1183
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,000
It's not it's like, you know, if
you're going to miss the 

1184
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,000
tournament this year or you 
missed the tournament a couple 

1185
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,600
years ago. 
Those are drops in the bucket 

1186
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,400
compared to the absolute 
collapse of even Big Ten 

1187
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,200
competitiveness let alone 
Competitiveness that Indiana has

1188
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,600
undergone over the course the 
last 20 years. 

1189
01:03:52,900 --> 01:03:57,500
And again, I think when Archie 
Miller got hired all the signs 

1190
01:03:57,500 --> 01:04:00,000
pointed to that being the guy 
that can fix it and he hasn't 

1191
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,600
been able to and I don't I don't
see a route right now for him to

1192
01:04:02,607 --> 01:04:03,800
fix it. 
I hope I'm wrong. 

1193
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,900
Tom crean people thought he 
could fix it. 

1194
01:04:05,900 --> 01:04:09,200
He didn't fix it. 
You know like Calvin Sampson 

1195
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:10,600
Mike Davis for different 
reasons. 

1196
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,600
No is it unfixable is the is the
problem Indiana University? 

1197
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,200
I don't think so. 
Like there's no reason. 

1198
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,800
There's nothing in the water 
here that is making things 

1199
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,100
worse. 
Now. 

1200
01:04:23,100 --> 01:04:24,200
You just need them. 
I look at it. 

1201
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,300
Like Clemson football like 
Clemson won a title in 81 and 

1202
01:04:27,300 --> 01:04:29,700
then was kind of I don't say 
irrelevant, but just kind of a 

1203
01:04:29,900 --> 01:04:32,200
like every other kind of 
middle-of-the-road college 

1204
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,500
football program, but they have 
the infrastructure like they had

1205
01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:38,200
the DNA of a great program. 
They had, you know, the stadium 

1206
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,900
they had the Traditions. 
They just didn't have the Wiz to

1207
01:04:40,900 --> 01:04:42,800
it and then Dabo Swinney tapped 
into it. 

1208
01:04:42,900 --> 01:04:45,100
It's a Tuesday the right coach 
to get into it. 

1209
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,700
Yeah. 
I mean, it's true. 

1210
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:49,800
And I look there's that there's 
been enough. 

1211
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:54,400
I always resist the argument 
that like Indiana can't be an 

1212
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,000
elite program and again because 
we see program we've seen Calvin

1213
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,500
Sampson to name a name lift 
Houston of all teams up to the 

1214
01:05:01,500 --> 01:05:04,400
point where they're like a 
regular single digit seed we've 

1215
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,800
seen, you know, Greg McDermott 
take a Creighton program that 

1216
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,800
was, you know, a nice mid major 
and they're in the conversation 

1217
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,300
for protected seeds. 
Regularly. 

1218
01:05:13,300 --> 01:05:16,300
We've seen Chris beard take 
Texas Tech to a national title 

1219
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:17,600
game. 
We've seen, Virginia. 

1220
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,100
By Tony Bennett, we've seen Fran
mccaffery take Iowa and turn 

1221
01:05:22,100 --> 01:05:24,500
them into a top-10 program at 
least for this year. 

1222
01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:27,200
I don't know that's going to be 
something sustainable bag over 

1223
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,100
25 years Rick Barnes in 
Tennessee that mean that's it's 

1224
01:05:30,100 --> 01:05:32,300
not like Tennessee as a long 
history of being a great 

1225
01:05:32,300 --> 01:05:36,400
program, you know, and they've 
had two coaches in the last 15 

1226
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,000
years that have managed to do 
anything with their program one 

1227
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,400
of those Bruce Pearl who's a 
cheater but he's a great coach 

1228
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:42,900
and the other one is Rick 
Barnes. 

1229
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:47,500
And so they all I say all of 
that what Gonzaga and last 20 

1230
01:05:47,500 --> 01:05:50,200
years sure. 
I don't think there's anything 

1231
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,600
structurally about IU at least 
from the outside that prevents 

1232
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:57,300
that from happening. 
I think it's been mostly bad 

1233
01:05:57,300 --> 01:05:59,300
luck. 
But bad luck is not an excuse 

1234
01:05:59,300 --> 01:06:01,300
for not figuring out a way to 
fix things. 

1235
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:07,000
And again, I think I think 
Athletics knows that things 

1236
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,600
aren't going right. 
It's just like what do you do? 

1237
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,900
Do you do you roll the dice 
about you know, spending all 

1238
01:06:12,900 --> 01:06:15,800
that money and trying to make a 
change and then hoping that you 

1239
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:18,200
hit on the next person. 
Do you play it out? 

1240
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,800
A year if Archie Miller won the 
Big Ten next year with the team 

1241
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,900
coming back. 
Would that solve the problem 

1242
01:06:26,900 --> 01:06:33,000
start of that? 
What's acceptable enough to keep

1243
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,000
going? 
I mean it's this is not the spot

1244
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,400
that any program wants to be in 
but it's where Indiana's at 

1245
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,300
again and that is really 
frustrating and I don't know 

1246
01:06:42,300 --> 01:06:44,000
that anybody's necessarily to 
blame. 

1247
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:48,800
I mean if I don't think Archie 
Archie Miller is doing Best as 

1248
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,800
you said on the show, but if his
best isn't good enough, then 

1249
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:56,100
that's his own set of problems. 
So anyway, I guess that'll wrap 

1250
01:06:56,100 --> 01:07:00,800
it up for us joyous program as 
usual these days when we're 

1251
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,600
talking about IU basketball, but
hopefully things will get better

1252
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,000
the game against Michigan State 
I canceled this weekend. 

1253
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:11,700
So the next time and the next 
time Indiana plays is likely to 

1254
01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:15,900
be on Thursday at Iowa better 
not better now. 

1255
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,100
No, not not an ideal situation 
by a Any means they play 

1256
01:07:19,100 --> 01:07:24,100
Thursday at Iowa and then they 
host Rutgers on Sunday of next 

1257
01:07:24,100 --> 01:07:27,000
weekend. 
So every game is big from this 

1258
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,100
point forward moving moving down
the line for I you at eight and 

1259
01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:34,200
six three and four in the 
conference if they can pick up 

1260
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,700
some good wins, then maybe they 
still have a child shot at the 

1261
01:07:37,700 --> 01:07:39,300
tournament. 
I'm not betting on that right 

1262
01:07:39,300 --> 01:07:40,500
now given the way that they've 
played. 

1263
01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:44,100
So Scott is always a pleasure 
enjoyed talking to you and 

1264
01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:46,900
thanks to all you folks for 
listening in you can catch 

1265
01:07:46,900 --> 01:07:51,100
Crimson cast every We post a 
podcast if you subscribe on 

1266
01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:55,500
Spotify or apple music or any 
place that you normally get 

1267
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:57,700
Podcast for Scott on Gala will 
catch you on the flip side. 

1268
01:07:57,700 --> 01:07:58,200
So everybody.