Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale and Claudia Scott Caulfield
here. It's Friday the 15th of January
halfway through January and it feels like we're halfway through
basketball season. We're not quite I love what kind
of close to their I guess certainly not halfway through
the Big Ten season, but through the overall number of games.
It's pretty darn close to that halfway point and gosh things
are not going well for IU right now.
We're going to talk about basketball pretty much
exclusively. I know there's some football
news out there. We're not going to address that
quite yet. We will have a football podcast
coming up soon. But we need to talk basketball
Indiana coming off of just an inexcusable loss on a number of
levels last night to Purdue they fall at home 81 69 and folate
and On the campaign fall back under 500 in the conference and
it's crisis time and I you Hoops.
It just is as much as we talked earlier on about maybe not
rushing to judgment about what's going on with the team and
letting things even out at this point.
It's hard to find the light at the end of the tunnel not just
because of the results but because of the process that's
leading to the results. And so we're going to try to get
into that here and Scott. I guess just first and foremost.
Let's give our quick Reflections on the game last night.
Indiana came in facing, you know, same record as Purdue 8
and 5 neither team had particularly let the world on
fire over the course of the season and it looked like the
things were set up fairly well for Indiana in this game, they
were better in the power rankings.
They were about 20 22 25 spots ahead of Purdue depending on
what ranking system. He wanted to look at Purdue's
offense. It really have trouble
throughout the course of the season.
Been going and Indiana had certainly played well in their
last two games, maybe three. If you want to count the
Maryland game, they'd almost won at Wisconsin and then they
wavered a bit at Nebraska but they still ended up covering the
spread their winning by 8. So I think many people myself
included felt like all right. If this IU team is playing well
and they're playing a Purdue team that has been very hot and
cold the very least. They should be able to win a
close game against Purdue. At home instead the opposite
happened. They were out of it early.
They got back in and then they never really got over the hump
and they ended up losing again, you know by double digits.
So give me your thoughts right off the bat.
What's your what's your your hot take off of yesterday's game?
That was an intro man. Welcome.
You know, it's funny. We've I remember when you and I
would go to IU Purdue games together.
We were talking about it days before we were excited.
I would kind of get ready ahead of time and it was like the
highlight of our evening. It is funny now as an adult, I'm
going to get to a point here in a sec.
But it's like I have you know, I have two kids.
We have a new puppy my wife works by work, you know, we're
up at 6:30 every day. It was great put the boys to bed
last night at like 7 o'clock or 7:30 issue know we fit down at
eight o'clock starting to watch it on DVR sitting on my chair
and it's like I fall asleep Midway through the first quarter
which are first half which is very standard for me to know as
an old man. And he's your old man and Marcy
my wife throws a pillow my head like 10 minutes later.
I kind of wake up and she's like the game sucks beer asleep and
I'm like, okay so watch the again and then I fall asleep
again, I wake up. It's like we're still down eight
and honestly, there was like, normally I'd be like, all right.
Well shit, I gotta like rewind and re-watch the game, but I was
like, yeah, I'm just gonna keep you know, I'm just going to roll
from here. It was like the 14-minute mark
of the second half and I was kind of in and out of
Consciousness for a lot of the second half.
I highly Man, there's a fun way to watch it.
I you lost to Purdue. My takeaway is this Purdue?
There's a shot called a three-point shot.
I know as an Indiana fans are having a real hard time
remembering what this is. I know if you watch any other
basketball, like people shoot this but it's behind the arc is
not a set shot is not a basket shot Purdue went 1111 for 17
from behind the arc, which I think is a loud.
You're allowed to hit those shots Indiana went 3 for 18.
I remember when Al Durham had four against Penn State.
It's like All right. Here we go.
Durham and fitness see like we're back to hurt, you know
corner has been turned. Yeah.
He went 1 for 3 Dude 3 for 18 just ain't gonna cut it.
I mean that is I don't think I can even say it's like 1950s
basketball because they ain't even shoot the three having this
is we are playing an Antiquated system of basketball.
We're not equipped to play the way that other teams play
Purdue's not like some, you know great team, but this is also the
problem we've had with the pack line defense at times on defense
is teams get hot from three and then we don't really have a way
Of stopping them and you see this over and over again.
It's just the three-point shot is an important shot in modern
basketball. We aren't we seemed unbelievably
ill-equipped to get it done. So yeah, it's good times.
You know, I was joking. The last thing I'll say is I was
joking with some friends. It's like I've spent more time
over the last 25 30 years searching and thinking about the
buyout of my current coach and what timeline that is and how
that can be done that I've had time that I've been I'm actually
enjoying the current coach that I have and this is this is an
Archie crean Davis thing. It's like I've spent way more
hours reading contracts and like thinking of buyouts and when
things are going to happen that I've had times like talking to
you be like. Hey man, we're on the right
path. Like we're at a good spot.
It just sucks. It just sucks like 25 years of
that since we basically graduated college has been a lot
of those times so good times. I look forward to sleeping
through half the next game as well.
That was quite a quite a mix of thoughts to start with.
So let's let's break this down a little bit, you know in terms of
the Purdue game. The I think the thing that was
the most inexplicable to me was the huge gaps in effort that
were obvious in the way Indiana played that just weren't there
with Purdue or Purdue. They had some trouble at the end
of the first half sustaining the momentum that they'd built in
the beginning of the first half. But then when the second half
rolled around they kind of pick right back up and for whatever
reason Over the last five years Purdue has brought it in these
games versus IU. And Indiana has struggled to
bring it and that I think shows through in the fact that Archie
Miller is you have to beat Purdue in his time as a head
coach in Indiana and its really I'd love to say it's only had
seven shots out of Gail not give him some time.
I'd love to say it's disturbing but it's not even disturbing.
It's just kind of of garden-variety Indiana
basketball right now where you know, they're just just there a
large stretches of time where the team doesn't look like
they're playing. Well they are and not not just
not just doesn't look like they aren't playing.
Well, it's not just a visual thing.
It's an actual execution thing and it's I'd love to say it's
just the three-point shot and that is absolutely a problem.
But it is a systemic failure of this team across the board, you
know, if you want to criticize them on offense you absolutely
can right. Now this team is a thin the
conference in conference. The offense from an efficiency
perspective which is not great, you know and it's it's like it's
right in the middle of the pack. It's slightly below the median
line and that's not going to get the job done particularly.
When you consider that that is you know, it's even though it's
an improvement over what Indiana's done over the course
of the last several years. It's still not good like last
year Indiana finished the conference season 12th in
conference only offensive efficiency.
They were under a point per possession the year before that.
Point in conference only offense efficiency again under one point
per possession Archie's first year.
They were barely above one point per possession and this year
they find themselves at barely over a point per possession on
offense that is hard to do anything with like if that's the
your team's profile offensively in any era of basketball.
You're not going to get the job done.
But the problem is for IU everything seems to be pointing
towards their That's Archie Miller.
Like he spent his entire post game press conference after the
game yesterday talking about how our defense wasn't good enough
and that's true. It wasn't but it's doubly bad
because Indiana doesn't have the offense to make up for their
defense not being good enough Indiana's defense on the season.
If you think about their their overall number their can Palm
number, it's dropped now to 23rd in the nation.
Well, that sounds fairly good. Ninety.
One point eight points allowed per hundred possessions.
That's you can make a living off.
Off of that, but if you take out the non-conference games, you
just focus on the Big 10 games so far and we've got enough
where I think it's a reasonable sample since they're allowing
one hundred and six point two points per 100 possessions.
They are dead last in three-point percentage defended.
They are allowing Big Ten opponents to shoot 40.4% from
three, which is the worst in the conference by a couple of
percentage points, Maryland is second worst, and they're only
at 38% They're allowing opponents.
Shoot an effective field goal percentage of 54.3% which is Xi.
So this is where the Purdue game just ends up being a microcosm
of a much larger issue their offense isn't good enough to win
games and their defense isn't good enough to compensate for
how bad their offense is and this again is nothing new.
This is essentially what Indiana basketball is and what it has
become. It's what it was last year to a
large degree. It's what it was the year before
and And when we talked at the beginning of the season I said,
well there are reasons to feel optimistic.
We have to actually see things happen that haven't happened yet
in order for the optimism to play out into reality and those
things have just not happened over the course of this year.
And so, you know, I think from the from just a basketball
standpoint. It's hard to point towards
anything right now with this team that really gives you a
huge amount of positive feelings.
Because you're now in a conference that has scouted you
to death that has film on every one of your players and that has
a really easily replicable game plan for beating you night in
and night out and you don't seem to have the tools as a program
to be able to counter that and come out and win games, you know
the games they've won so far this season are I mean, they
Penn State at home and overtime Maryland at home in a game.
That was too close for comfort. Effort given the relative
strengths of Maryland in my opinion and then a road win at
Nebraska where you surrendered an 18-point lead and and had to
essentially scrape and Claw to get back out to a reasonable
boundary by the end of the game. That's that's not a great
resume. When you consider that those
three games are Perhaps Perhaps the three easiest games in your
schedule for the entire big tent.
Yeah. You don't play them again.
If you don't forget to track your plate you've got What I
think they've got no, you're right.
I don't know plenty of those teams again.
Yeah, that's that's that's a bad sign.
Yeah. Now it is and I mean I you know,
I was listening to the assembly call guys last night and they're
you know, they're kind of the Bastion of positivity in the IU
blogosphere. It was nice to see them kind of
come to my side of being unhappy but you know, everything you
said is right, but I go back to like, let's I do think what's
been tough with this team. It's been kind of Don't want to
say Ken Palm darling, but it's had some good Ken Palm defensive
stats, and it's been like a good Ken Palm rated team.
But like when you take a step back, I don't want to sound all
sportscaster areas, but it's like, you know wins and losses
like those are the only staff that matter and I continue to
bang on this drum. It's like there's there was
injuries. There's all kinds of stuff but
like you've Archie's teams have underperformed for three years
or at least average perform. Like there's not one year where
you can say like, that's a year. We're like we blew the Out of
the water must thank you for it every year, but you can't go
under for a year and then just be average for three years and
just continue to be 500 in the Big Ten and expect things expect
there to be a ton of interest in a ton of Happiness.
It's like no you got to blow this out.
And I think we're I'm very frustrated now as I look at the
schedule and I just don't see how we do it.
Now things can still be salvaged.
I don't know how it happens. You know.
Hope is not a plan as I always say but it's like if you can
beat Iowa Rutgers, Michigan, Illinois and Iowa again, if You
go on a nice five-game winning streak.
It's like all right that makes up for a lot of the shit.
You've piled on the last three or four years.
I don't see that as a realistic possibility.
But like that's the kind of thing that I think at this point
needs to happen like not just get close in two of those and
win one like go in five of those games like you do that and
things have changed but that's what this program is missing is
like, what's the what's the defining win?
What's the defining season? Like, what are we look at it?
Like oh, that's awesome. I remember that that nice
three-game stretch where I'm like, I can't even think of a A
month-long stretch in the Archie era where it's like I'm super
confident about where we're going.
It's like what two games then it's like we just shit the bed
the next game. I know I'm super negative, but
it's I've been feeling this for a while.
Yeah. I mean, I think the problem
right now is It's both a macro level problem in a micro level
problem. The micro level problem for this
season is I have yet to see anything in Big Ten play.
That would make me think this team has it in them to suddenly
start figuring out how to win games to some degree.
You are what your DNA says you are as a basketball team and
what this basketball team is a team that is overly reliant on
post play to Garner most of its offense. and a team that's
unwilling to shoot from outside in most games a team that can't
decide what tempo wants to run but whose impulse is to go slow
on defense and then try to go a little fast on offense and a
team that defensively isn't solid enough to be able to
compensate for the problems that they create for themselves with
by these huge story scoring droughts and not just that but
the handicap being of the points per possession that you're able
to generate as a team when you're just not willing or able
to shoot three pointers. I mean Iman Brennan had a pretty
good piece in the athletic. I think it was this morning
about the the shooting issues for IU and the shot chart from
the second half of the game yesterday was just atrocious
like I mean, it looked like that on Twitter like yeah, it was
just you know, if you haven't seen it go check it out.
It looks like a shot chart from 1985.
We're just all the shots are from about 8 to 10.
It in and you know so much of like you can blame players
certainly for not executing things.
But over time the offense is start to reveal themselves and
it doesn't feel like the offense has changed that tremendously
much from what we've seen, you know over the last few years.
Yeah the pieces of changed a bit but the core concept of the
offense is to go inside and score points on the interior or
to Pat. Like to shot fake on Three's
step in and take long to switch just blows my mind that that's
the mentality that is being, you know carried out there by the
players. That's that's the long to is the
worst shot that you can take in basketball for a variety of
reasons, but knowing all of that and knowing how the players
individually are playing in the system, it's hard to find
anything that you would point to I guess you could maybe point to
the game at Wisconsin, but that game looks like such an outlier.
In terms of this team's ability to stay close and it's not like
that Wisconsin team covered itself in glory their next time
out. They went out and got
Annihilator that Michigan which just to some degree demonstrates
the difference between a team that's really playing well and
has a sense of itself and Indiana who doesn't and that I
think that Wisconsin game kind of like the the two years ago
Romeo Season, it's like that team went on the 30th, you lost
11 or 13, but they beat Michigan State twice and think that was a
weirdo Outlier but it's like that just they just got Upper
Michigan State they seem to match up.
Well against Michigan State maybe we just like we have some
kind of key that can unlock Wisconsin, which is awesome
because we don't play them again either.
So right, you know, it's like I just so I look at that very it's
like, all right, like you can't just continue to look back and
say alright we played well against Wisconsin there a top 10
team like something works like no because two years ago nothing
really worked and we just we played well against Michigan
State and that was like you said the outlier The micro level is I
said a problem. The macro level is much worse
because of a couple of things one is what you said when you
try to think back and say, okay. What is The Shining Moment of
the Archie Miller era either in terms of a streak of games or
even just in terms of like, you know a game that really got you
galvanized for IU basketball, you know, you can say probably
the Florida State game last year maybe the Michigan State game at
home last year. You know in 2019, I guess you
would point to the game at Michigan State.
That one was exciting that home game versus Wisconsin.
I was there that was not exciting.
It was it was a lot of things but it just that that it was a
win. That's about the best I can say
about it. There's is a handful of games
where you can think back and say wow, Indiana really played.
Well, they played hard they played with energy and Poise and
determination and all those Cross Road games.
Archie's a good Crossroad coach well, because he's playing
second or third level teams, you know, I mean that Butler team I
don't that bubble teams not going to the tournament this
year, you know, the Providence and Stanford are borderline.
If not completely out of the tournament picture at this
point. And and so when I look at the
way that this IU team plays they just always look like they're on
the brink of spiraling down. There's there's always you go
into every game and and you're just waiting for the 5 minute
scoring drought that inevitably is going to pop up and you're
waiting for that that moment in time where the offense just
stagnates because the defense is blowing up everything Indiana's
planning on doing because they've seen it on tape enough
times and you're waiting for the defensive moments where they
over help and over rotate and leave three point shooters wide
open. It's it's just like clockwork.
It's so frustrating I think for the average fan.
To try to get any joy out of watching these games because
even the winds are like pulling teeth.
The winds are a grind the losses are a grind with you know, no
pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but even the ones that
have the win at the end, I mean did anybody really watch that?
Nebraska Game and leave saying yeah, that was a that was really
great top to bottom from IU. I mean the Maryland game was the
same way to Penn State game was the same way.
It's just there's just such a lack of joy.
In terms of watching the team and frankly in terms of just
watching the guys on the floor. Like I watched race Jackson
Davis who's had a great season despite all of the problems
around him and that's a guy he doesn't play with joy as much as
he plays with like anger, you know, he's constantly if it
looks like he's constantly going up against three or four guys at
once often times because he is and he's like every time he does
something and accomplish it so big it just it looks like a
little bit of weight has been lifted off.
His shoulders just to be dropped right back on those shoulders at
the end of the next possession and ever it almost everybody
else brace Thompson has been pretty joyous to watch but
everybody else pretty looks pretty tentative or makes
mistakes or whatever and you can just see their Collective
psychology declining throughout the course of pretty much every
game that they play. It's just a very very difficult
thing. Yeah.
Now they gets its it was very evident with you know, a guy
like Rob fantasy after the Penn State.
When you hit that game winner, it was like you saw Rob again.
Like he looks like a kid who's a super happy-go-lucky kid that
we've only seen be that way for like three times in his career
at IU like the rest of the time. He looks tentative.
It looks like he's up his own head.
It was kind of nice like, oh there's Rob smiling like that
was that was cool guy looks good when he smiles like I like him
being happy know you're it's it's weird because under you
know, the Creed error was sloppy and they made a lot of mistakes,
but you could just tell they were kind of loose and you know,
the this this era it everyone feels like there are there
they're so worried about making the mistake and you are right.
There isn't a lot of Joy there. It's not as talking to to Tony
yesterday on the podcast and he's like, they just need to
play more pickup ball. Like that's what he saw is like
they just they're practicing to her the way he views his I could
practicing too much. They just play some more pickup
and you I kind of feel that it's I don't know man.
It's a bummer because I don't know how you get out of this
because the roster isn't going to change this season.
It's not going to get increasingly better next season.
And again what really frustrates me is when people are like, oh
well, the Big Ten is super tough.
Like, you know, well, what do you do?
It's a tough League. It's all right.
Well, we play in the Big Ten like we're not going to
Conference USA. And by the way, like one of
those tough teams is Illinois who by the way like hire their
coach for years ago. To and I hate to keep banging.
That drum is like Ohio State same deal.
It's like yeah their circumstances things like that.
But it's like we can't continue to just be scared of all these
other teams where they were in similar situations that we were
four five years ago. It's not just like, all right.
Well shit, Illinois is a bridge too far.
We're never going to beat them. Like I'm just happy to be 500 in
the Big Ten. It's like that really really
annoys the shit out of me because it's like okay fine
Michigan state is at a different level than we are and so is
Wisconsin nobody else the Big Ten.
It's like we can't we should be to look at Illinois and they all
right. You know what you gonna do like
that's that's complete defeat is bullshit my mind.
Well, you know how you get out of it is a really good question
because normally in this situation you'd say, well you
dig you're going to get out of it with developing players and
bringing in new players who are going to assist that hasn't
really worked. I mean if you look at the
expanse of the Archie Miller era thus far and I'm going to
preface all these comments by by saying I have been as supportive
of the Archie Miller era and of Archie Miller is head coach.
Is anybody in the the media circles surrounding IU I have
from the moment that he got hired.
I thought it was the right higher.
I think all of the evidence at the time pointed to being a
right higher, but I'm also an evidence-based guy and if there
was an excuse that could be made for last year not being better.
It was that you Still having some key pieces around into
place and to some degree. We have seen things round into
place a bit this year. I think race Thompson now that
he's healthy. We've seen what kind of
development that he's gone through and he's a really
important figure on this team. I think we've seen Armand
Franklin obviously take a big developmental leap.
We've got Trace Jackson Davis who is as good and probably
better I think in certain areas of his game this year than it
was last. Last year despite all of that
this team looks worse than they did last year and that is hard
to justify when you consider that you've got Al Durham a
senior guard who's been at every every practice.
He's had it college has been under Archie Miller every game
that he's played Archie Miller has been his coach Rob fennessy.
Same thing Junior starting point guard.
You've got, you know Jerome Hunter who granted is that
similar injury issues, but As Tony mentioned on the podcast
looks lost a lot of the time particularly on defense out
there and then you've got freshmen who are coming in and
having to fill major minutes. Yes, you're missing Joey Bronk.
I don't know how much of a difference Joey bronc would have
made on this team. I certainly don't think that
he's the missing piece. That's the difference between
Victory and defeat but when you look at the lack of development
with guys like Durham and fantasy who frankly aren't
giving you a whole lot more now than they were a couple of years
ago. Ago and in some cases maybe
slightly less and then you look at some of the players that have
come through the program the last couple of years Devonte
green being a good example. There's not a lot of evidence
that you can point to that says Indiana's going to be able to
develop their way out of this melees.
Like we're not I don't see a strong nucleus for the future
with this team. You've got a very strong
likelihood that your best player the guy that's, you know, using
31 percent of your possessions is going to go And declare for
the NBA draft doesn't he's gonna get drafted but that he's going
to declare at the end of the year.
You're going to lose Alder. Mm and all of those minutes
you're going to you. Maybe maybe maybe lose somebody
else. Maybe you don't but with those
two players gone. I don't see a lot on the roster
that makes me excited about the idea that you're going to lift
yourself out of this. You've got one recruit coming in
next year. Maybe you get onto the transfer
market, but now you're essentially just grasping at
straws like there's not really Be a solid foundation that
exists right now with this program, you know, I like the
Freshman but I also don't understand what the deal is with
the Freshman. Tray Galloway is played the most
by far he's playing but 56% available minutes and I love his
energy, but he can't shoot like it's fascinating like Trey
Galloway missed another three yesterday.
I'm not trying to pick on Trey Trey Galloway's 4 for 23 from
three this year. That's 17 percent and I'm all
for people. We wanting to take shots, but if
you're 17 percent from the ark, you should probably not shoot
from there. It's it's you know, you get
Anthony wheel who's barely playing who's 31 percent from
three and might be better. If you gave him some more run
Jordan Geronimo. I think everybody figured might
be a little bit raw, but that brings us to the real big
question mark which is the Christian Lander situation now
Lander, Isn't playing and he's really when he is playing you
can see why he's not playing. He's not shooting the ball.
Well at all. He's shooting 27 percent from
three and ten percent from two. He's turning the ball over on
like 23% of his possessions and he's getting lost on defense
constantly. He makes like a cameo at about
the 6-minute Mark or the 8 Minute Mark of the first half
every game and then it's rare that we see him again after that
and You know that brings up a whole host of questions about
okay even in as this goes right into the development thing and I
know you've got another thing on this you want to talk about but
you know with young players you can normally see something
that's going to make them attractive and worthwhile and
and and contributing at an effective level down the line.
I've yet to see it out of Christian Lander.
He you know, he dribbles around a lot and then he shoots and his
shot is always Off he's always lost defensively or maybe not
all the time but a lot of the time and it just it makes you
wonder okay, where's how does that guy develop especially
being a five-star recruit who reclassified?
Is he go even going to be around long enough to develop before
you have to fill that hole again, whether it's through
leaving and you know declaring for the draft or whether it's
through transferring somewhere else that those are the things
that give me a lot of pause about this situation I did.
We'd be having this conversation 14 games in but when you lose at
home to Purdue for the fifth time in a row is a program and
Purdue with a collection of recruits that you know,
certainly aren't better or bigger names than what you've
got on your eye you roster when that recruit when that group of
people is just able to come together and play harder
throughout the course of the game.
You have to ask yourself. What is the path out of this and
I don't know the answer to it. Yeah, I mean I'll go on the
trace Jackson Davis thing before I hit on the Lander thing.
But you know, I've been thinking more about the Jackson Davis
thing since I talked to Tony yesterday and to me it's like
this is a massive indictment on what we see going on at IU
basketball right now is that Trace Jackson Davis and believe
me. I understand what NBA teams are
looking for is not always equate to what a great college
basketball player is like I get that there's like potential and
things are looking for that doesn't Wait to like you're good
in college that said it's like you have faith insanely talented
player and Trace Jackson Davis. Who right now.
I'm like, you know tank with on.com is ranked as the 38th.
Best Prospect like on most draft boards.
He's middle to end of the second round.
Maybe not even drafted. Well.
So again, it's not I use fault that the NBA is looking for
something different to me where I think this is a massive
problem is you know, why are we not doing more in our offense to
Showcase things that Jackson Davis can show to get ready for
the NBA. Like why isn't he taking a
couple threes a game by the way, nobody else can fucking shoot it
so it's like doesn't hurt if he takes a couple shots at it.
Like why is it he's so bad. I'm guarding inbounds and
guarding guys deep how he's just in the post.
He just does his things it's like he's doing exactly what
he's good at because it looks like Archie's trying to win.
I don't know like six big ten games.
Like I don't understand if we're going to be middle of the road.
Anyway, why not put together a highlight package in games to
show the things that he needs to On why are they working on that
because part of this game and high-level basketball is be able
to show I can take you as a stud recruit and get you recruited.
I mean get you drafted in the NBA and it's like, you know if
Jackson David's it's you know, heresy to say this he would have
gone to Kentucky. He be catching lobs and probably
have been drafted last year because none of his faults would
have shown as much and it's like if you're the next stud recruit
you look around you know, where you're at in the Big Ten right
now. It's like, all right, man, if I
want to go just ball I can go to, Illinois.
I can go to Michigan. I can go to Ohio Staley I can
get some Pace I can get some shots up.
If I just want to go completely bald.
I'll go to Kentucky, you know, if I want to get coached a
little bit and also have a real good shot.
I said, I'll go to Michigan State if I just want to be, you
know, get you know, play a you know, bird dog style basketball,
you know bust ass, I'll go to Purdue.
It's like why don't want to go to I you it's like you got
Christian Landers a five-star her reclassified as playing six
minutes a game. I got Jackson Davis who's
insanely talented can't even get a sniff in the first round, you
know. His team, is it showing helping
him showcase the new skills, he needs and the pace they play as
glacial. So I my my stats are going to be
dog shit. You know, I think this is a real
problem. Like this is a massive problem
that we can't effectively make Jackson Davis a better recruit,
but also like I don't know why other recruits would want to
come here like there's so many other good options now around
the Big Ten, this is hey, I'm going to stop there cause I got
three other but I don't want to get too far off at a tangent.
But like I think it's a massive problem.
Well, look, I think I don't think it has to be an either/or
situation. I don't think that you have to
either choose between being good or showcasing Trace Jackson
Davis. I just don't understand what the
offense what's it? I mean if kind of dovetails what
you're saying if I'm watching this offense as a prospect.
I'm not attracted by it. There's very little about it.
I guess I have to wear a belt with my shorts now coach like
remain far back in. Hurry going.
I mean, you know I if I'm a trace Jackson Davis type, I
guess the attraction is oh, we'll throw the ball to you a
lot and you'll have a lot of room to work even though the
offense actually doesn't give that much room to work.
But you know, everything is just predicated on this idea that
they're going to you know, getting Trace tracks and David's
close to the basket so that he could make moves and lay the
ball in and that doesn't really leave much room for for anything
else and when it gets defended well, which it's increasingly
getting defended. Well, it creates a big problem
in terms of you know, making the whole thing look unattractive
and you know, so when I think about the the problems from a
recruiting perspective and Trace Jackson Davis has you know a
great offensive player but isn't getting much traction on draft
boards, you know, you can lay the blame of that at our chief.
You could lay the blame of that at racetracks and Davis's feet
at the end of the day. I don't think that they're not
having Trace Jackson Davis shoot from Deep simply because of the
design of the offense. I think he can't actually shoot
from Deep. He has not attempted a single
three-point shot in the two years of the year and a half
that he's been at IU. Not one and that like know coach
is dumb enough to say well, we're not going to have you
shoot this shot because it doesn't fit.
Our offense not not today at least not in this day and age.
I think it's more a matter of Trace Jackson Davis.
You can certainly blame Indiana's offense for looking
Antiquated. But at the end of the day I just
in case Jackson Davis is a limited player.
He's an incredibly effective offensive player on the low
block and yet he can't even hit a free throw.
Let alone take a three-point shot and hit it on a regular
basis. So I don't know how much of that
to actually lay at the feet of Archie Miller from a realistic
perspective from a Perceptional perspective.
It doesn't really matter because I do think a lot of people look
at how Trace Jackson Davis plays and they wonder why isn't that
guy getting more NBA traction and I think there's reasonable
explanations for it, which I just laid out, but the reality
is Whether or not there are reasonable explanations for it.
I you as a program. And Archie Miller is a coach end
up getting blamed for the lack of traction and I think on the
recruiting Trail, it gives a lot of traction to other programs to
say. Well you could be a great player
and go to IU and actually your draft stock would get worse not
better because it's not only as it happened with Trace Jackson
Davis. It also happened with Romeo
Langford, and it's about to happen with Christian Lander and
that's a really hard. So much of recruiting is about
perception. It's hard to get around that
perception when the Lander thing II equate this a lot to what you
said a bunch of times this year in football, which is true.
It's like we're as I you football fans were not used to
what goes on at high level football because we haven't been
dealing with it. You know, I hate to say it as IU
basketball fans. We haven't really been dealing
much with you know, five-star recruits in the way it goes and
you know, the way it goes is again, I hate to say the exact
same story given by neighbor Robert for Michigan State.
He's like when he's Like oh you got Christian land or five so I
could be starting like what do you mean is what we don't start
them like you're not going to get any more good recruits.
Like he's got a start and Lander we seen him.
He's not quite ready yet. He definitely is on the court
doesn't look great. But the fact that you have a
five-star her reclassified. He didn't reclassifies you to
get five years of tutelage under Archie.
Like he re classifieds we can go to the NBA and if you have a
five star who reclassifies, you know, this isn't Archie doesn't
have its is not Bob and I guess not 1987.
You can't just say hey, you know go sit on the bench for two
seasons or five games and your we're going to You had to play
these guys want to play and all the a you buddies a Christian my
under eye like alright, man. Well, that's not the program.
I want to go to like he's not, you know, they're blaming the
program as much as they may or may not think Lander has it or
doesn't have it but it's the perception of a reclassified
five-star just playing three minutes of game.
That's to me that's an awful look and that's just that's
going to be so recruited against us and you just have to play a
moral. You've got to get him more time
on the court. Let him play through some of
this. Because you know is those able
to do that here and there like some coaches can do that
Calipari can do it. But like they have a resume to
back it up. Archie doesn't end.
Well, so I don't know. I think I think it's a lot of
bad winds prevailing here against us.
So I'm going to actually take a similar tack on this that I took
to the trace Jackson Davis thing.
From the standpoint of what's happening right now Christian
Lander isn't playing because he's not ready.
He's not good enough to play in the Big Ten.
I heard that like, I'm Andy night and like no amount of even
people saying well, let's just play him and see what he can do.
We've seen what he can do. It's not much it's and I'm not
trying to be critical of the young man.
He's just not good at the things he needs to be good at in order
to be a tribute ER right now and the problem I think for Indiana
is that there had to be at some point along the way an analysis
of risk reward for taking Christian Lander on now, I'm
sure that what the original thought was was that well, okay,
we're going to he's going to reclassify he's still got a high
school seniors body and a high school seniors mind, but we're
going to have a whole offseason of physical development and of
film study and of all of these things and then we're going to
have a bunch of games against lesser opponents that we can get
him 25, you know minutes a game so that he can just learn how to
play and then by the time the real games roll around he'll be
ready to go that none of none of that happened and I don't know
if it's if it's reasonable to blame Archie Miller for all of
that falling apart since you know, the no one knew what was
going to happen with covid and no one knew what the schedule
was going to look like and it's not like you have Have a
five-star recruit and you haven't been getting five-star
recruits on a regular basis. If you have one call you up and
say coach I want to reclassify and I want to come to school.
You're not going to be like hey, you know, we're good to fly a
kite this out. But there's a responsibility
that happens when you agree to bring that person on and like
you said you at that point you are For Better or For Worse, you
kind of handcuffed to the process of having that player
play regularly of growing with that player of going through the
ups and downs. ons so my big thing with Christian Lander is
at this point in the season with not a whole lot to lose moving
forward, you know, you're going to either have to elect to not
play him at all because he can't contribute or you're going to
have to like to play them regularly and neither of those
scenarios sound particularly good to me because if you if you
don't plan I think the scenario that you're talking about does
play out where You know, what? What what Guardian is going to
look at the Indiana situation and say well that a five-star
recruit that they played, you know, eighteen percent of
available minutes in a season and you know that guy like the
whole idea was that guy was going to reclassify and then be
on this path to the NBA and he looked pretty good in high
school everybody agreed. He was a five-star recruit then
so what happened it must have been something in Indiana
whether or not that's fair that becomes perception on the flip
side if you're playing this guy on a Regular basis as the
recruiting numbers say that you should you're putting your team
in real grave danger against these that you know, the
Michigan State's the Iowa's the Michigan's the Illinois is that
you have to play in the next, you know, 10 or 10 or 11 or 12
games. So it's a bad situation.
And again, I don't know how much you blame Archie Miller for
Christian Landers inability to execute on the floor right now
because he hasn't had that much time with him, but I do think
that you have to Again similar to the Romeo Langford thing
think that this was a it was a combination of bad timing and
bad execution. But all that everybody's going
to remember is that it was an unfulfilled piece of potential
that happened under the IU program.
Yeah. So I mean all of this leads to I
think there's long-term recruiting problems this team is
going to have and that's what we're going to need to get out
of this because Player Development doesn't seem to be
something that's that's happened here and you know, No, I'll just
I'll kind of say the quiet part out loud.
You know Archie's by out. She comes into play kind of
August of 2022. No University is gonna buy
anybody out in the middle of a covid crisis when the money's
tight. So we're this is this is our lot
for the next two seasons probably.
You know, it's going to be interesting moving forward
because you know, first of all, I don't want to see anybody get
fired. I don't I you know, and as I
said at the beginning of the year, I don't know how much we
can really take out of this season.
It's I'm not signing excuse. I'm just saying I don't know
from a evaluation standpoint in terms of the long-term
ramifications of things how much anybody can take out of the
season I do know this that if this Spirals really badly down
the stretch. That's that's a really bad.
That's a bad sign and I don't know what the what the I don't
know what the justification is at that point for staying the
course other than money money is a hell of a thing.
But but I also think that you know, one of the things I
noticed and I've been you know monitoring people long enough on
social media and I talked with a lot of people so there is
absolutely zero Buzz among fans around this program.
There's no excitement. I want to be mentioned I think
interest is just nosed. I mean one of my friends that I
was texting with before the podcast texted me, you know,
there's something deeper. I never heard so many friends
who either didn't watch the game because they knew what would
happen or those like me who turned it off with ten minutes
to go for the same reason and I mean there were some people that
didn't even know the game was happening and then it just kind
of popped up. It's like oh, yeah, Indiana
Purdue die mean you can never have imagined that that that
situation. It's pretty yeah, it's funny.
I had hold on. Let me check.
You know, I mean, I think the lack of excitement.
I mean, it's not just the games and the lack of excitement in
the games, but there's just very little to look forward to with
this team. Like there's there, you know,
it's nice to see Armand Franklin continuing develop and it's nice
to see Trace Jackson Davis playing out there, but it's a
team that just Stat for large stretches of games in some cases
whole games just doesn't look like it wants to be there and it
I think has created an environment with the fan base
where most of them at least the ones that are vocal on Twitter
and in other corners of the internet, and I know that's not
everybody but even people that I talk to that aren't on social
media. They just they're done with
this. They're done with the era.
They don't think Archie Miller is a coach that is up to the
task of being an Indiana. And it's hard to really have a
lot of justification that you can put in front of people to
counter that I mean even even those people that have been
pretty defensive or or have been willing to defend Archie Miller.
There was a stat that someone tweeted yesterday Archie Miller
is now 2 and 20 against Purdue, Michigan, Ohio State and
Wisconsin, that's really bad and granted that's cherry-picked.
I mean we could point out. He's beaten Michigan State what
three times but still like to that like those four programs
have been among the best in the Big Ten at various times over
the course of the last four years.
And Indiana has just not managed to be competitive really against
any of them for any stretch of time and that you know, so you
create this this trough of excitement with IU basketball
and you're going to potentially miss out on a tournament where
all the games are being played in the state of Indiana and then
you're going to go through a whole offseason with one
recruit. One grad transfer that we know
of losing your best player and then you're going to run it all
back next year and expect it to be better.
That's that's a really questionable environment and you
know just in terms I mean is like crane was saved in large
part by winning the 2016 Big Ten title and it kind of covered
over the fact that at the beginning of that year.
A lot of people thought that crane wasn't going to survive
that season, you know, maybe that's how bad that 2016 season
started and you know, they righted the ship but then they
were right back to where they were the next year which kind of
led into the current predicament.
So I do I just don't know. I mean I again I agree with you
and that it seems unlikely anything would happen and I'm
not calling for anything to happen.
But I do also think that the apathy and the disillusionment
and the Detachment that's going on with so much of the fan base
has got to be setting off all kinds of red alerts in and
around the I am because this is just this is about the this is
the exact antithesis of what Indiana basketball normally does
and what it normally means to people and that translates into
Dollars it translates into donations that translates into
interest for the athletic department and it's just as good
as the football season was this is almost been the exact
opposite. Well, it's funny.
So it's sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you in
the mid of that but I have a buddy very similar text.
I got from him. He's like dude.
I have no one I can text like all the people I style you
basketball with just our out like they've all checked out.
It's funny. I was thinking about football as
you were talking. It's like I've said this many
times before, you know in the last since we graduated and you
know, the last 2025 years, there's been like an 18-month
stretch where I've been super excited and very happy about IU
basketball and that's like the basically the to you know, the
to seller years that you know, 12 13.
We've had a longer stretch of football the last two seasons
where it's like I'm excited and very happy about the direction
of The football program is going in excited for Seasons like who
would have ever thought that like I'm going to have a 24
month period of being more happy with football in 20 years, then
like I don't have that in basketball.
And so everything you said is spot-on.
I'm not going to rehash it because you nailed it, but I
will say this like it's this is a bigger problem because it'd be
one thing if you were coming off of you know, the night era or
the Davis final four like some galvanizing moment or like but
this is coming off of 20. Years of slow apathy and slow
decline where you have, you know a I'm gonna do this under a
minute. I promise like you have the I
don't want to rehash all that you have like the fracture of
the fan base with the night Davis thing that you have, you
know, Davis Kind of it slides down.
Then you have you know, the Sampson years and you have those
issues you have the the dockage two-month period That's throw it
in there. But then you have Creed where
it's like you have a little bit of ups and downs.
We have a divided fan base, but you have apathy throughout the
Korean years, and now you have just Kind of a general malaise
and for your apathy under Archie like this is not good.
Everything you've laid out is true and the apathy is real like
it really is and you you've seated you know, and not to
mention under these years. You had a run at Purdue where
they had a group that Purdue love with the ha me.
That's a hurt the Robbie Hummel. You'll each one more group.
You had a great group of cattails swanigan.
You have the run with Butler like you've had a lot of teams
with in Indiana kind of grab some of that.
Attention. It's like oh, yeah, if you want
to watch cool Indiana basketball that we're still seeing go watch
Butler go to Hinkle. I mean shit go to go to MacKay
for a couple of years there that they're playing the kind of
basketball you want to see you know, and that takes its toll
you have the Pacers doing really well.
It's like, all right. Well, you know, I'm going to
check out my start watching the Pacers.
I know I did that. I watched the entire Pacers game
this morning. I was hassling to the IU game
last night. Like these are all real things
and you know coming off of a two-year pandemic where the
university is going to need some Honey, I am concerned because
they're going to probably wake up and not see you no interest
in tickets ticket renewal Seasons like and this is a god.
This is such a small small notice, but they sold cutouts
you could buy for the Varsity Club from both football and
basketball and football. Both of the end zones were
filled with cutouts like there is I don't know the numbers but
it looked very full with a lot of cutouts.
I don't see a lot of cutouts in the basketball arena like that
the lower circuit Coal is all former players they put in
there. I know people are buying them.
This is the most unscientific research I've seen but on the
large shots of Assembly Hall. I don't see as many cutouts as I
saw for football. I know I bought a cut out for
football. I didn't buy one for basketball.
I would have never done that 20 years ago.
I'm not the barometer of this but I'm with you I think just
the overall General malaise interest is is a problem.
But I also I will just end with this flip side like I do Wonder
does it matter because people are still giving her.
RC club like I have season tickets my seats have it moved
down much in the last four or five years.
People are still giving money at higher levels than I do, you
know, if people who give to The Varsity Club and the number of
tickets are still sold desire. I you care that, you know, most
people outside of the giving public don't give a shit about
basketball anymore. Oh, I think they care.
Look. I I think it's easy for fans to
assume that if things aren't going well on the floor and
immediate action isn't taken that somehow the athletic
department doesn't care. Like that was always the line
with football. Oh, they don't care about
football. I don't agree with that.
I think that there's a lot of people from from Scott Dolson on
down who care very much particularly about IU
basketball. I mean, even if you wanted to
make the cultural argument that I you football was was lower on
the priority list. I don't think anybody could make
the argument that IU basketball is low on the priority list it,
you know fan the finances bear that out.
I just think Like everything on paper about this situation says
that the situation should have been working and it isn't
working and sometimes that happens and it sucks and I you
know, the I don't think that there's anybody in the athletic
department who would seriously entertain the idea that yes, we
want to be a mediocre basketball program.
We are mediocre basketball program and have been for a
while and that precedes Archie Miller and it precedes Tom
crean. This is something that really
the course on this was set 25 years ago 30 years ago through a
variety of factors that we've covered on this podcast before
it doesn't have to remain that way and I guess that's the big
question mark that I would have because if things are just not
working then and we've talked about this a lot the big
programs the ones that have really invested their identity
in basketball. They do something they do.
Make changes and you know again it's it doesn't have to be that
way and we've certainly seen situations where they've you
know programs have waited a little bit longer than others
and it's worked out for them. But I also know that from the
standpoint of where Indiana wants to be this is a step back
from what was the Tom crean era and that was a judge to be not
sufficient and accurately so I mean, you know, the there was a
lot about the Tom crean era. Then I think we can look back on
with some positivity the Big Ten titles and the the trip to the
Sweet 16 certainly, but there were also the troughs that
shouldn't exist for a program of Indiana's caliber.
Now, you've got the trops with none of the Peaks.
And again, I was optimistic that this year marketing slogan for
slogan for the year all the trucks Ross but no Paula traps
out of the Peaks. I was very young.
I was very optimistic this year with who they had coming back
and who they had coming in. That Indiana was going to be at
least like in the top five or six conversation in the
conference and I just don't see a route to that at this point.
Like you could make an argument that Indiana's had they've had
one of the easiest runs so far as from a schedule perspective
and they're only three and four and that's about to get
significantly harder as you go through the remainder of the
schedule will have to wait and see what happens.
Obviously. I'm not going to shovel dirt on
the team yet, but I do think there's a lot of cause to be
concerned about what direction this is currently headed.
And I don't know what you do long-term about it because
again, you've got a there's a lot of balances and checks that
you have to think about with all these things and the finances
are definitely one of them. I just something has to happen
on the floor to get people excited about IU basketball
again. Otherwise, I think that you
know, you're you're the direction that you go is pretty
much. Has decided for you at that
point unless you've just unless at this point you've said we
don't know how to fix this and I don't think that the I don't
think Indiana is at that point yet.
Yeah, so it's tough. This is not the conversation.
I wanted to have at this point in the season and I'd love to
say that, you know things can still get better and maybe they
will get better. I just when I look across the
numbers when I look at the games themselves, and the way the
teams apply was not falling asleep through most of the Game,
I watched the entire thing yesterday and I'm envious of you
that you didn't watch all of it because what I saw was the same
film I've seen over and over again from this team not just
this year, but the last couple of years.
It's just it's a it's it's a not fun team to watch and you can be
a not fun team to Watch and Win games and I'm okay with that.
You can be a fun team to watch and lose games.
I'm less okay with that but to be not fun and a lose games is
is pretty unpardonable and and particularly when we see so much
good basketball going on across the Big Ten right now, you know,
I just I keep scratching my head and I keep thinking, you know,
people have said well, you can't compare like Juwan Howard to
Archie Miller situation. Yes, Juwan Howard inherited a
much better situation. What about Brad Underwood?
Like, you know, what about this situation that Brad Underwood
inherited at, Illinois? He's managed to figure out a way
to make that happen. How do you like?
What's the explanation for Chris holtmann who has managed at Ohio
State to you know, certainly not like the world on fire, but he's
been to I think what a couple of tournaments now, they would have
gone to a third tournament last year.
They were a five seed and in the first year that he was there and
you know in the second he I mean they've been past the first
round in both of the years. They've been to the tournament
that's not great. But that was like the minimum
Asians I would have had for Archie Miller coming into this
situation and the lack of inherited Talent argument which
we use to defend Archie Miller is over at this point.
This is all his talent. These are all his players.
This is his system. Where's the beef?
Like, where are the results? Where's where is the thing that
you can anchor yourself to and say that's the identity of IU
basketball. That's why they win games and
that's why they're in other games instead.
It's almost like you have to Search for reasons, why are you
won games? And that's a really bad spot to
be in when I just I'll end with this.
I guess I gets interesting. I it drives me bonkers that
argument of like when you look you look at Juwan Howard what
they're going to Michigan and people are like oh but you know
different circumstances, you can't connect that.
It's like we've become such a victim fan base when like, I
remember talking with the guys from Ohio State before the IU
Ohio State game the guys from Leavenworth.
Years and they were like, yeah, man, we expect to win every game
like we're not like we're not airing it's like the most
arrogant thing to say to be like, we're not arrogant but we
just were confident but it's like it's true.
They're like, yeah, we expect to win every Big Ten game by 14 or
more points. I can we play Alabama we expect
to win we expect to beat everybody like and we're pissing
we don't like and that's the way we go into it.
So like yeah, we're not scared of anybody.
We think you have a good team, but you know, we're expecting to
win every Big Ten game. We expect to beat Clemson like
we expect to meet everybody and yeah, it's just it's weird.
That we you know, I you had that exceptionalism in the 90s and
now we're at a point where you know, if if Ohio State you let's
say Ryan day just left and they hired a new coach and then two
years in a row. They're 500.
The Big Ten their fan base is going to be like, yeah, but you
know, you know text you know, but a Texas has a different role
than they had different advantages.
You can't do that like oh, you know, well, you know, Kansas
State's having to run but you know, they have like they make
the fuck this like no like we need a new coaching.
This is bullshit. Like they'd be going bonkers.
They wouldn't be like well, you know, Michigan Couple years
honest with Harbaugh and you know, you got you got to give
him credit like they wouldn't be justifying away things other
schools and I it drives me nuts because everything you said is
dead on I've been hitting the brain Underwood thing for years
because it's like he's 4 years, but it's like I'm tired of us
looking around and like oh, yeah.
Well, how could we ever get to the loss of Michigan basketball?
It's like no with we are there like, let's stop just compared
to everybody else. Like why are we there a lot of
it is just the IU basketball fan psyche is very good.
Maybe not but maybe not. Permanently broken but it's
certainly fractured because it's been an awful last 25 years.
It just has been I mean it the the last year's of the night era
the firing the Mike Davis era everything that's happened since
then, there's been such little every every everything that good
that happens. It's like you're waiting for the
other shoe to drop and there's Anna drops and then it drops and
then it's just like, okay. Well, here we go again and it's
at This point I think a lot of are you fans have just been
conditioned to think of themselves as just another
basketball program because that's what I use been for the
longest time a quarter Century. Now with a couple of small peaks
in you know, you know a in a year or two and that's it.
And so I think to some degree Indiana fans have had to become
almost reflexively defensive about even rooting for the team
loudly because they're always afraid that The team's going to
let them down at key points and that's more or less what's
happened? And that's that's a hell of a
place to be for a fanbase. You know, it's it's a situation
that I think as we get closer to the end of this season is going
to manifest itself in ugly or ways because It's either going
to be people getting really really angry or it's just going
to people not paying attention. And what's making it worse is
how obvious the problems are it's not like there's some
complicated basketball equation that you need to solve in order
to figure out what's wrong with IU basketball.
Like it's very obvious to anybody who's got even a modicum
of understanding of the game watching the game that you know,
the team doesn't play hard a lot of the time they play tentative
they play scared and And you know and they rely entirely on
one player to do the majority of the scoring and the other player
to clean up the garbage and score points on the post and
everybody else is just kind of like what is your role here?
Exactly. What do you do?
It's it's a really bad spot to be in so I don't know what else
there is to say I do know that Purdue is having a fun time
rubbing this in they tweeted out a graphic.
I don't know if you saw the Feels Like Home graphic.
Twitter yet but you know, it's it lays out the five wins in a
row that they've had now had an assembly hall and feels like
we're back in the 1920s and 1930s again, you know weird
Purdue was clearly the better team clearly the better program
and Indiana was just kind of off in the wake of Purdue.
Let's not get political but it's like we have the entire Trump
Arrow will come and Gone without an i you win against Purdue.
Well, that's just a Time marker but it's true.
Yes. I mean like, I mean, it's It's
it is they squeezed all five wins.
I think an assembly all during during this this last four and a
half years and you know, I mean, but it's also longer than that.
I mean, it's something like I think since 2009 or 2008 Purdue
has I think there are like 20 and 5 or something like that
against Indiana. Like it has got five wins during
that era and four of those winds came in the 2012 and 2013
seasons. When what's up?
Let's just got it. It's just it's the final of the
take-home point is something's got to change take it the output
the output on the floor has to change because people are just
giving up on IU basketball young people.
It's just kind of another thing that's there and you know your
school like do you see I know you want to wrap up like do you
see the students just having a lack of a lack of passion about
basketballs? They did 15 years ago.
Oh completely. We it's not the same at all.
It's just and I wouldn't expect it to me.
That's not the students fault. Like you got it.
It's like I said with football you have to give the students
something to cheer for and seven to feel excited about being a
part of you know, the kids they still like going to Assembly
Hall but it's just not that big of a deal because with the
exception of those two seasons really in the early part of the
2010s. It's been worse versus better
like it's been most of the time which your students were.
Eight years old for ya years old.
Yeah. I mean it's there's there's just
no history right now for people who are in college to really
point to you've got two maybe three seasons if you want to
really get if you want to count that 2016 season, that's
something to really get excited about that's it over the course
of a 20-year span of time and that's that's the entire College
population right now. The undergraduate population of
Indiana is essentially lived in an era where the Last time
Indiana made something happen where they were really
nationally relevant. They were maybe 10 11 12 years
old. And the last time Indiana was in
a final four. Most of them weren't born yet.
Yeah, how do you sustain? How do you sustain that?
Like, that's that's that's where the issue should be.
It's not it's like, you know, if you're going to miss the
tournament this year or you missed the tournament a couple
years ago. Those are drops in the bucket
compared to the absolute collapse of even Big Ten
competitiveness let alone Competitiveness that Indiana has
undergone over the course the last 20 years.
And again, I think when Archie Miller got hired all the signs
pointed to that being the guy that can fix it and he hasn't
been able to and I don't I don't see a route right now for him to
fix it. I hope I'm wrong.
Tom crean people thought he could fix it.
He didn't fix it. You know like Calvin Sampson
Mike Davis for different reasons.
No is it unfixable is the is the problem Indiana University?
I don't think so. Like there's no reason.
There's nothing in the water here that is making things
worse. Now.
You just need them. I look at it.
Like Clemson football like Clemson won a title in 81 and
then was kind of I don't say irrelevant, but just kind of a
like every other kind of middle-of-the-road college
football program, but they have the infrastructure like they had
the DNA of a great program. They had, you know, the stadium
they had the Traditions. They just didn't have the Wiz to
it and then Dabo Swinney tapped into it.
It's a Tuesday the right coach to get into it.
Yeah. I mean, it's true.
And I look there's that there's been enough.
I always resist the argument that like Indiana can't be an
elite program and again because we see program we've seen Calvin
Sampson to name a name lift Houston of all teams up to the
point where they're like a regular single digit seed we've
seen, you know, Greg McDermott take a Creighton program that
was, you know, a nice mid major and they're in the conversation
for protected seeds. Regularly.
We've seen Chris beard take Texas Tech to a national title
game. We've seen, Virginia.
By Tony Bennett, we've seen Fran mccaffery take Iowa and turn
them into a top-10 program at least for this year.
I don't know that's going to be something sustainable bag over
25 years Rick Barnes in Tennessee that mean that's it's
not like Tennessee as a long history of being a great
program, you know, and they've had two coaches in the last 15
years that have managed to do anything with their program one
of those Bruce Pearl who's a cheater but he's a great coach
and the other one is Rick Barnes.
And so they all I say all of that what Gonzaga and last 20
years sure. I don't think there's anything
structurally about IU at least from the outside that prevents
that from happening. I think it's been mostly bad
luck. But bad luck is not an excuse
for not figuring out a way to fix things.
And again, I think I think Athletics knows that things
aren't going right. It's just like what do you do?
Do you do you roll the dice about you know, spending all
that money and trying to make a change and then hoping that you
hit on the next person. Do you play it out?
A year if Archie Miller won the Big Ten next year with the team
coming back. Would that solve the problem
start of that? What's acceptable enough to keep
going? I mean it's this is not the spot
that any program wants to be in but it's where Indiana's at
again and that is really frustrating and I don't know
that anybody's necessarily to blame.
I mean if I don't think Archie Archie Miller is doing Best as
you said on the show, but if his best isn't good enough, then
that's his own set of problems. So anyway, I guess that'll wrap
it up for us joyous program as usual these days when we're
talking about IU basketball, but hopefully things will get better
the game against Michigan State I canceled this weekend.
So the next time and the next time Indiana plays is likely to
be on Thursday at Iowa better not better now.
No, not not an ideal situation by a Any means they play
Thursday at Iowa and then they host Rutgers on Sunday of next
weekend. So every game is big from this
point forward moving moving down the line for I you at eight and
six three and four in the conference if they can pick up
some good wins, then maybe they still have a child shot at the
tournament. I'm not betting on that right
now given the way that they've played.
So Scott is always a pleasure enjoyed talking to you and
thanks to all you folks for listening in you can catch
Crimson cast every We post a podcast if you subscribe on
Spotify or apple music or any place that you normally get
Podcast for Scott on Gala will catch you on the flip side.
So everybody.