1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,880 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:22,200 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Gas 3 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:27,360 Scale and Clavio joining you. It is Wednesday, January 10th. 4 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,840 Thanks for joining us folks. Midweek. 5 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,600 Some struggles for Indiana Basketball, We're going to get 6 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,080 to that a little bit later on in the week. 7 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,280 But today we have a special podcast guest joining us which 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,440 we'll talk about here in just a second. 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,680 But first, just a couple quick reminders for you. 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:49,200 That Crimson Cast is part of the back home network also featuring 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,920 the Assembly Call post game show. 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,560 After every Indiana men's basketball game, we've got the 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,800 Doing The Work podcast, which who has their 100th episode 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,760 coming up covering IU Women's Basketball, Crimson Cast Women's 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,720 Basketball Show with Amanda Foster and Kevin Vera. 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,680 They just dropped an episode yesterday keeping up on the 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,840 ladies who are I think ranked 14th right now in the country. 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,000 Plus you've got a bunch of other great stuff on the back home 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,600 network. All of that is brought to you by 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,280 our presenting sponsor, Home Field Apparel. 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,320 Your place to go for the finest in college fashions, the softest 22 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:25,840 fabrics, the coolest designs, Basketball, football. 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,800 Doesn't matter what it is, home field apparel is going to have 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,320 what you're looking for. If it's, I mean we're we're 25 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:35,160 definitely in hoodie season. It is going to get bitterly cold 26 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,880 here in Indiana over the next couple of weeks and it's it's 27 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,360 absolutely time to get yourself another hoodie from home field 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,160 apparel. Some of the warmest and most 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,800 comfortable stuff that we've worn. 30 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,240 And you know when it gets a little warmer in the spring, you 31 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,240 got the bomber jackets. Those will come out again. 32 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,880 So go to homefieldapparel.com, follow them on social media. 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,040 If you're a first time buyer, use the code HOME 23 and you'll 34 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,360 get 15% off your first order. Again, home field apparel.com 35 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,480 and be sure to follow them on Instagram and all of their 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,320 social media platforms. Also, just a quick reminder that 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,880 Crimson Cast is on sub stack. You can go to sub stack and you 38 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,200 can get emails sent directly to your inbox featuring our latest 39 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,880 shows. We've got additional items 40 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,080 occasionally, some articles, some different things that you 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,240 will find interesting or at least we think you'll find 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,120 interesting about IU basketball, IU football, Bloomington, the 43 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,720 tailgating scene, what have you. And we also have a paid option. 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,800 For those of you who are interested in supporting the 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,880 podcast financially in some way, it's very reasonable, $5 a 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,080 month, $50 a year, you get access to additional content. 47 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,200 Sometimes it's extra analysis that we didn't get to on the 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,280 main show. Sometimes it's movie reviews, 49 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,120 Sometimes, well, we've done a little bit of everything on 50 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,280 there, so check that out. crimsoncast.substack.com. 51 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,240 The podcast will always be free, so be sure to go ahead and sign 52 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,560 up for Sub Stack. We'll look forward to seeing you 53 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,560 there. Let's go ahead and get to our 54 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,040 interview. We were pleased, Scott and I, to 55 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,480 be able to sit down for an extensive interview with former 56 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,920 Indiana quarterback Xander Diamond who was very open about 57 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:19,800 his time at Indiana and talked a lot about the process of what 58 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,640 brought him from Southern California to the Midwest, his 59 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:28,520 time playing at Indiana. And just some of the the really 60 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,480 interesting ups and downs and kind of you know, different 61 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,360 turns that a a college athlete's career can take in major college 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,480 football. So we're going to go ahead and 63 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,080 get right to that interviews Andrew Diamont joining Scott and 64 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,880 I here on Crimson Cast. Xander Diamond joining us here 65 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,480 on the show. Xander, thanks for taking the 66 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,680 time and great to see you back on Twitter and fully into the IU 67 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,960 football Twittersphere. First of all, how are you doing? 68 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,360 I'm good. Thanks for having me. 69 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,400 Yeah, I, you know, I've been, I don't even want to say I've been 70 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,920 out of the loop. I've actually had Twitter for a 71 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,440 little while and I have commented from time to time, but 72 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,800 I don't think anybody's really picked up that it was me related 73 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,120 to IU football. Like I was even tweeting at 74 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,920 Mitchell Page, one of my teammates, and I didn't get a 75 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,880 reply. I don't think he, like, realized 76 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,320 it was me, but whatever. This is the dream, Being able to 77 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,440 be on Twitter and not have anybody know that you're there. 78 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,000 Actually, I kind of like that being anonymous isn't the worst 79 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,480 thing. So we're on, we're on video. 80 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,720 But Zander, I'm kind of missing Where's the cigar In the bucket. 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,080 Like I just figured you go with those everywhere you go, just. 82 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,200 Yeah, yeah, they're well, Unfortunately, we don't have the 83 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,160 bucket anymore. So you didn't get a replica out 84 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,360 just out of that picture? That's. 85 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,520 I do have a little replica somewhere. 86 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,720 I think it's at my parents house. 87 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,560 Probably that's great. I'm sorry not to be the guy 88 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,800 where you like, walk in my house and I have like portraits of 89 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,360 myself. You know, I try to try to be a 90 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,320 little more discreet than that. Walk into de Sanders. 91 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,120 Oh, did you play football? Right, Yeah. 92 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,320 No, it's absolutely. I love it. 93 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,960 You were in a really interesting period of the IU football 94 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,840 program as it was kind of coming out of that long, relatively 95 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,520 dark spell that happened. You know, there was, there was 96 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,080 that little light at the end of the tunnel, it seemed like with 97 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,480 the Heppner era, and then Terry unfortunately passes away, IU 98 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,800 goes to a bowl game and then essentially was one of the worst 99 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,400 teams in the conference after that for several years. 100 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,720 You were there, as you know, Kevin Wilson and his staff had 101 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,320 really started to build it back into a program that was able to 102 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,800 compete and be respectable on a consistent basis within the 103 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,720 conference. I mean, what sticks out to you 104 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,120 about your time with that, that group of guys and that coaching 105 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,480 staff at Indiana at that particular period? 106 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,560 You know, there's, I mean, there's a lot of different 107 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,040 different things and a lot of different roads I can go down. 108 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,320 And and to your point, like I think a lot of people 109 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,000 underestimate how significant of a time that was for the IU 110 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,800 football program, to be honest with you. 111 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,480 I mean, I'm from California. I did not even know Indiana 112 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,200 football. I I didn't know anything about 113 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,640 IUI, didn't know Indiana had a football team. 114 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,760 I had never seen the logo. You're not alone in that, by the 115 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,800 way. Right, right. 116 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,120 I mean I think a lot of people on the West Coast were were kind 117 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,600 of in that boat and for what it's worth like during that time 118 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,560 and I'm I'm not saying it's solely because of football or 119 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,160 anything like that, but we had a lot of nationally televised 120 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,560 games and we did go from being really a non existent program in 121 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,600 the eyes of most people to if you ask a high school football 122 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,440 kid about Indiana football, they do know they're in the Big 10. 123 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,120 They do know the offense. They do know the logo like it. 124 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,320 It went from being really a nothing program to at least a 125 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,280 recognizable program known for some certain things. 126 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:47,160 And so you know that that staff was special in that it was led 127 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,640 by Kevin Wilson. I don't agree with everything 128 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,960 about Kevin, I'm sure, as you guys know in my past states a 129 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,960 little bit, but but he he, he absolutely is an offensive 130 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,000 genius, a football genius. And I would never deny that. 131 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,440 I don't think anybody else would. 132 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:10,760 He was incredibly intelligent as it relates to football. 133 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,080 And there were some other guys on the staff that were amazing 134 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,480 as well. I mean, Coach McCullough has 135 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,840 gone on to have a super storied coaching career. 136 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,640 Coach John's just had a ton of success at Duke. 137 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:23,880 My brother actually was playing there. 138 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,760 So I got to see him about a year ago. 139 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,840 Coach try incredible offensive line coach. 140 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:31,600 And then just the talent that we had. 141 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,720 I mean again, like, you know, you look at six, six wins, seven 142 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,960 win seasons for IU and you're like, OK, yeah, you're kind of, 143 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,920 you're kind of a middle of the pack football team. 144 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,360 But what people don't understand is like the Big 10 E at that 145 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,000 point in time, in my opinion, and I think in most honest 146 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,000 people's opinion, was the best conference in college football. 147 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,800 I mean, you had Michigan State the best defense in the country. 148 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,840 You had Ohio State a couple of those years are are arguably the 149 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,040 best college football teams ever. 150 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,720 Michigan is always Michigan. Even in their down years, 151 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Michigan is still full of five star recruits on the bench. 152 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,720 On the field I I like, I still remember after that Michigan, 153 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,200 Michigan game walking around the field and and walking up to 154 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,880 their players and being like these dudes are just freaks. 155 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,080 There's freaks everywhere. So you know people don't 156 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:27,200 understand how hard it is to fight the history of the Big 10 157 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:33,880 and Indiana is up against a a century of history And So what 158 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,679 Indiana was able to do during that period of time and and 159 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,400 since is really a testament to the staff the talent of the 160 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,120 players. I mean look at look at how many 161 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,520 of those guys are our guys are still in the NFL today. 162 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,040 You've got I mean the list is is pretty significant of guys that 163 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,080 got onto an NFL field. Our team was loaded with NFL 164 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,880 talent that could have played at Ohio State's, Michigan's any of 165 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,960 those schools. You know, we're talking Nate 166 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Sudfeld, Jordan Howard, Tevin Coleman, Kofi Hughes, Cody 167 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,440 Latimer, Shane Wynne, Dan Feeney, Jason Spriggs. 168 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,440 They're really and, and I know I'm forgetting guys too, but 169 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,040 they're really were NFL dudes all over that field. 170 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:19,040 So a lot of people just don't, a lot of people don't recognize 171 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,240 how good of a football program we really were because we also 172 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,680 played in a in a an incredibly challenging conference. 173 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,400 But we went toe to toe with the big guys every week. 174 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,760 That group of players, I mean that whole list that you 175 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,480 mentioned and obviously there's a few others we could throw in 176 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,480 there as well. When you talked with them as 177 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,680 teammates, like what was it that drew you to IU to play under 178 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:43,000 Kevin Wilson and that coaching staff and what was it that was 179 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,040 drawing that? Like what was the what what 180 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,280 helped to to make you think I'm going to take a chance and go to 181 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,560 this program that as you said was kind of a non entity 182 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:53,280 essentially in the Big 10 and nationally in college football. 183 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,960 Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I I can, I can speak to my 184 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,880 reasoning and some of the guys I just listed were a year or two 185 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,440 older than me. So I I don't, I I wasn't there 186 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,160 for their recruiting process per SE. 187 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,480 But for me, I was kind of a unique situation. 188 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,840 I played football in in the city of Los Angeles, very densely 189 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,560 populated, full of athletes. I mean, there's there are guys 190 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,520 that played high school football in LA that are better than dudes 191 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,200 playing in college today that didn't have a single offer 192 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,920 because there's just so much talent everywhere in California 193 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,520 and in LA specifically. And so for me, I was in this 194 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:35,480 really weird spot as a high school football player where my 195 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,280 my stats were great. I didn't come from a football 196 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,760 family. I was the first person in my 197 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,840 family to play football. We had no idea how to navigate 198 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,160 the recruiting process and and kind of get the hype machine to 199 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,480 work. It was kind of in this period 200 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,640 where like the online systems were starting and like huddle 201 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,160 was becoming a thing and so we didn't really know how to 202 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,960 navigate that stuff. So I I, I I end up starting as a 203 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,080 sophomore at Venice High School. I have a a pretty good season as 204 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,920 a sophomore, you know, nothing crazy. 205 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,880 My junior season, I have a a a great season and I have some 206 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,760 really good tape and I went to all the quarterback camps. 207 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,080 I mean, I was part of the Steve Clarkson era and I threw every 208 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,960 single weekend with all the best quarterbacks really on the West 209 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,200 Coast. But for whatever reason, I'm 210 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,520 like, why am I not getting recruited? 211 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:31,080 I mean, I weighed 145 lbs. I am like 6-1 and a half, six, 212 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,600 two. So the height wasn't really an 213 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,680 issue, but I was super skinny. So my junior year goes by and 214 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,040 you know, again, I'm not really getting recruited. 215 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,280 I'm not going to the recruiting events though either. 216 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:42,880 I'm just training and doing my quarterback coaching, which I 217 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,640 had done for a long time and so we knew a quarterback coach in 218 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,480 Oklahoma long storied. I I won't get into it how I knew 219 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,680 how I knew him. His name's Joe Dickinson, 220 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,360 incredible quarterback coach. Probably the best I've 221 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,280 encountered and Joe was the off was the offensive coordinator 222 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,520 probably a decade prior at Oklahoma and I believe they won 223 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,040 the national championship. So my head coach who knew Joe 224 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,800 Dickinson for 20 years sends Joe my tape and he goes, hey, you 225 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,400 know you should look at this kid like what? 226 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Like help us kind of navigate this. 227 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Why isn't he getting recruited? He goes send, send, send him 228 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,480 out. And I actually knew Joe by the 229 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,760 way since when I was much younger I had seen him in 230 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,640 probably 5-6 seven years. So I fly out to Oklahoma and I 231 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,360 go train for a weekend with Joe. I'm that weekend I am throwing 232 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,080 with Joe David Cornwell who was the number one. 233 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,920 I believe he was the number one high school quarterback in the 234 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,920 country at the time. And another kid, I can't. 235 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,880 I'm blanking on his name but this kid was the he was Mr. 236 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,000 Football Michigan, if I or maybe Ohio I think Michigan if I 237 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,480 remember correctly. And I'm lighting lighting it up 238 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,520 with these dudes. Again, I'm I'm skinnier than 239 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,720 them whatever. But I'm. 240 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,600 I'm slinging it. And so Joe sends my tape to one 241 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,000 of his former teammates, Seth Luttrell, who's the offensive 242 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,400 coordinator at IUI. Know nothing about IU. 243 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,440 Joe starts telling me, you know what, this could be a really 244 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,080 good fit for you, blah, blah, blah. 245 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:17,520 And basically Indiana calls. And they go, they saw my tape, 246 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,160 they liked it. And they were. 247 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,120 They had this perspective that because I was from California, I 248 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,520 would never come to Indiana. And that was kind of strange to 249 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,360 me. And so they said, hey, we want 250 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,320 you to come out here and come to our camp. 251 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,120 We want to see that you're even serious about coming to school 252 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,520 in the Midwest. I have no offers at this point. 253 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,560 So I go to Indiana. We land my my dad and I drive 254 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,000 into Bloomington. It's probably 9:10 PM by the 255 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,880 time we're in Bloomington, and we're walking around the square 256 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,280 and we're walking around Kirkwood. 257 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,000 We see the sample Gates and I go, if I get offered, I'm coming 258 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,360 here. My, my parents didn't go to like 259 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,440 a rah, rah, university, you know, that kind of Big 10 feel. 260 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,720 I had never even stepped foot on a campus like that. 261 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,640 I was used to UCLAUSC, you know, again, great campuses and 262 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,280 universities, but they don't have the same, the same. 263 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,880 Vibe. Ethos that in Indiana has and so 264 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,720 I I already knew I was like these guys offer I'm I'm going 265 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,000 here. I haven't even met the coaches 266 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,800 yet. I'm like this is a university. 267 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,040 I want to be part of something like this. 268 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:27,600 I want to be in the Big 10 and so I do the camp and I have a 269 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,040 great time meeting all the coaches. 270 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,280 Great experience you know obviously it's recruiting they 271 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:32,480 all. Every school makes a good 272 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,960 experience on a recruiting day. I fly back to LA they send Kevin 273 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,760 Johns out to watch me throw. So they have not seen me throw 274 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,960 yet in person. This is now going into my senior 275 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,720 football season. I've put on probably 10 lbs, so 276 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:51,520 maybe I'm 155, almost 160 and I'm I'm playing my best football 277 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,840 at this point that I've played in my life. 278 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,520 Coach Johns comes and watch, watches me throw and I just 279 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,560 light it up the whole day and they offer me when he goes back. 280 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,840 I commit on the spot. I go into my senior year of 281 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,880 football, and so I I guess that whole story is just to explain, 282 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,480 I was kind of in this. My whole story was sort of weird 283 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,680 and the fact that I ended up on Indiana's radar was really by 284 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,120 fate or happenstance or whatever. 285 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,920 And so I think my experience was a little bit different than most 286 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,640 people's. But what it showed me was like, 287 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,280 why is this school, this university with this incredible 288 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,640 history and this unbelievable campus and this brand and this 289 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,160 name? Why would you take, why would 290 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,720 you have the mindset that people from other states wouldn't come 291 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,800 here? It's like every kid from LA, 292 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,400 inner city kids dream is to get out of the hood. 293 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,680 Not that I was in the hood, but I mean my high school was in the 294 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,520 hood. But to get out of the hood and 295 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,000 go be in this Immaculate campus environment that is like you 296 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,720 couldn't put a price on. And so I found that to just be 297 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,920 kind of interesting and and ultimately being around that 298 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,880 environment is what compelled me to want to go to IU. 299 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,120 Granted, I was deciding between IU and probably what would have 300 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,160 been like a Fresno State or something like that. 301 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:13,200 But I, I, I think, I think most people walk away from being at 302 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,480 IU and they go, this place is incredible, you know? 303 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,320 Well, along along those lines, you're talking about, you know, 304 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,600 you being surprised that IU is not recruiting California. 305 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,600 You know, the very high level, you know, felt like when Kevin 306 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,160 Wilson came to IU, one of his big things was like, hey, this 307 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,040 is we do football a certain way at places like Oklahoma and we 308 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,000 got to change that at IU. You were there, you know, near 309 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,760 the end of his tenure. But what, what are the things 310 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,040 that you saw outside of, you know, maybe accidentally 311 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,800 recruiting California, but like things that you saw with Kevin 312 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,520 Wilson and like trying to, you know, move the Indiana program 313 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,400 forward, being inside the program? 314 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,120 Well, yeah, I mean, Kevin did a lot of things in that respect. 315 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,960 I think that he really did, to your point, bring that mindset 316 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,480 of like, we need to treat this program like we're Oklahoma. 317 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,840 Whether we're there yet or not, it doesn't matter. 318 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,440 That's how you get there. You have to fund this thing to 319 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,160 get it there. And so to again to Wilson's 320 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,000 credit, one of the things that he was really adamant about was 321 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,960 just kind of creating the right player environment and 322 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,720 experience. And that that starts with like, 323 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,160 our meals. I mean, he was busting the 324 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,800 administration's ass to get us better food and to be like, yo, 325 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,760 these we need to be, these guys are elite athletes. 326 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,119 We need to be walking in these meal rooms and we should be 327 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,600 pretty jazzed up to eat the food. 328 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,440 It shouldn't be like dog food. And I, and from what I heard 329 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,280 before he came, it was really bad. 330 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,240 The uniforms, I know he tried to get them to be more like in 331 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,040 Oklahoma, like Indiana's uniforms. 332 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,600 And I I I know I joked a lot about this on Twitter and kind 333 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,920 of stir stirred it, stirred it up a little bit. 334 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,480 But their uniforms historically just look kind of goofy, like it 335 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:56,080 just doesn't look it. It doesn't have that traditional 336 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,640 quality, sophisticated feel. It looks like sloppy and thrown 337 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,120 together. And so I even even something 338 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,720 small like that was something that he did then. 339 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,240 You know we get into this era of everybody talking about Oregon 340 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,560 and these flash uniforms and we need to do the helmet. 341 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,120 Wilson brings the Chrome helmets and again, I don't know that 342 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,000 that was necessarily him that came up with that idea. 343 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,520 I'm not sure who it was, but that was a significant 344 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,360 investment. From what I understand each one 345 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:24,040 of those helmets is like 1000 bucks to to paint. 346 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,360 So like these things are like, you know, you look at it and you 347 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,520 kind of don't think about it, but those things were expensive 348 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,280 and and significant, were you? I always get the timeline. 349 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,560 Were you, were you there when they unveiled the was it 350 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,600 legitimately that? I mean by the way, I'm, I'm 351 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:41,880 always been a fan of the Chrome helmets. 352 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,960 I like those. But like there was some social 353 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,200 early social media then that people just freaking like 354 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,800 players freaking out. Like, were you guys that excited 355 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,120 to wear them? Oh yeah, for sure. 356 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,960 I mean, it was kind of the first taste that we got of like, oh, 357 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,200 this is some legit big time program shit to do here. 358 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,760 Like we're going to have just an alternate helmet that looks sick 359 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,680 and it's flashy and whatever, you know, So again, like you're 360 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,000 a kid did. You did you push Wilson like we 361 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,040 want to put like, did you push him for the games you wanted to 362 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,480 wear those for? Like we want them all games. 363 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,560 I wasn't until my junior year, I wasn't one of those guys who 364 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,480 necessarily could go. I wasn't knocking on the door 365 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,480 the coaches to be like can we wear these this you know tonight 366 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:27,040 whatever I did have who was my soft like my freshman and 367 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,920 sophomore here. I mean Sudfeld was you know he 368 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,840 was the guy Tevin was a guy Shane Wynne was just because he 369 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,960 was kind of like the heart of the team character kind of the 370 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,120 you know he he played that role. He was the guy who could stand 371 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,640 up and make a joke in a team meeting and be like, you know, 372 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,640 let's wear this or or something. And again, it it's not even 373 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,880 that. Like that was some big topic of 374 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,440 discussion. That's kind of the least of your 375 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,920 worries when you're when you're getting ready to play Michigan 376 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,080 on national TV. But my point is, is those little 377 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,920 things really add up. The recruiting experience that I 378 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,040 saw Wilson and those guys put together was great. 379 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,400 The weight room that I use has always been great. 380 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,360 It's world class. It was I think the second 381 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,240 largest, if not the largest weight room in the country for a 382 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,160 significant period of time. I don't know if it still is. 383 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,840 And then obviously the stadium, I mean that that started during 384 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,120 Wilson's era. I know it didn't actually the 385 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,680 construction didn't start during the Wilson era, but that concept 386 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,400 started they they were selling me on that when I came on my 387 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,640 recruiting trip. So, you know, these things have 388 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,800 a have a have a timeline, but just the tone, you know, like, 389 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,520 oh, another thing actually Speaking of like nationally 390 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,280 televised games, Wilson, I remember repeatedly would bring 391 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,000 up the fact that he was and and I don't know how these 392 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,800 discussions happened behind the scenes, but he was fighting to 393 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:52,040 get us better game times, better TV slots and things like that. 394 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,760 He wanted to play on national TV, like, you know, from a 395 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,480 competitiveness, from coming from the places that he came 396 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:00,840 from. Like that meant something. 397 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,600 To him, I I remember when they reshuffled the divisions and you 398 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,160 know, Indiana gets put in the Big 10 E They know previously 399 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,640 they've been in the were they the Leaders division or the 400 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,600 Legends division, Scott, I can't remember. 401 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,720 But they they had the old setup. Nobody remembers which was 402 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,080 which. But you know, I and A lot of 403 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,640 people were very concerned about being in the Big 10 E and I 404 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,800 remember hearing an anecdote that Wilson was like, well, you 405 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,920 know, you want to be in the division where you're playing 406 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,080 Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State all the time, 'cause that 407 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,800 means you're you're playing in more prominent games. 408 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,440 And you know you can sell that to players that are coming in 409 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,080 that you know you're, you're getting a chance to play against 410 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,720 the best. And And I'm guessing in the back 411 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,680 of his mind, he's like, well, that's also going to get us on 412 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,840 national television more, which hopefully expands the brand a 413 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,920 bit more as well. Yeah, and and I'm sure he 414 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,120 thought about those things now. What was the, you know, the 415 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,400 obviously your freshman year you had one of the highest highs of 416 00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:00,520 the last 15 years as a team beating Mizzou on the road, then 417 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,760 you know that. But that had been proceeded by 418 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,280 losing to Bowling Green. You had the loss the next week 419 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,040 to Maryland. Then Sudfield goes down with the 420 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,440 injury a couple of weeks later against Iowa. 421 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,200 And you're a freshman that year, if I remember correctly. 422 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:17,560 And now you're in a position where you got to start because 423 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,960 there's really not another quarterback on the roster. 424 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:24,600 Like, what was that experience like and how did the team and 425 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,720 the coaching staff handle just that huge kind of variation 426 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,800 between the highs and the lows and obviously finishing with 427 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,680 that huge high of you, you know, running the touchdown in at the 428 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,320 end and winning the bucket? Yeah, it's funny you bring up 429 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,960 like Bowling Green in Missouri because to me that that was 430 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,760 really the tale of two seasons. Like, in a way, I don't even 431 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,560 remember that part of the season because it was such a I I lived 432 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,680 2 lives in that span of four months or however long it was. 433 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,800 But I do remember just that Bowling Green feeling like, what 434 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,840 the fuck is going on? We just walked into this shitty 435 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,400 little stadium. This team is in some nothing 436 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:05,920 league. And again, I'm. 437 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,040 I'm not trying to hate on anybody. 438 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,840 This was just like my perspective as a kid coming out 439 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,160 of high school from California. Like we're let's go stomp these 440 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,200 dudes. And we should have. 441 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,760 But they were, they were good. Well, they're. 442 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,520 Like, where's Bowling Green? Like, right. 443 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,080 Exactly. But Bowling Green was actually a 444 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,080 a good football team that year. Again no excuse regardless but 445 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,640 and and that's proven by us beating Missouri but I'll I'll 446 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,000 kind of paint the the story a little bit more with a little 447 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,920 bit more detail as to how that all happened. 448 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,600 So, so first of all, I come into IU. 449 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,840 We have Nate Sudfeld and Trey Roberson. 450 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,560 Trey Roberson also played in the NFL, by the way, for a period of 451 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,000 time. But we have. 452 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,480 We have fond memories of Trey. You know he was he. 453 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,000 I loved. I loved Trey. 454 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,960 And he was he he treated me really nicely. 455 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,400 He was, he was awesome and an incredible athlete. 456 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,920 But I'm coming into IUI graduate high school early to come get on 457 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,800 campus sooner. Again, I'm undersized, 458 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,800 underdeveloped. I didn't play in a sophisticated 459 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,080 offense in high school, and so I'm like, great. 460 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,880 I'm gonna sit behind these guys for a couple years and I'm going 461 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,360 to get developed and I'm going to get some size and then I'm 462 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:16,480 going to get my shot. That was the thought, right? 463 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,280 So I come in, all the sudden they mismanage the situation 464 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,400 between Nate and Trey, which again that that speaks some of 465 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,320 the downside of of, you know, the staff and some things that 466 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,360 I, I, I think me and most of the team would probably agree on. 467 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:38,160 They mismanage that situation. Trey leaves and it's now Nate. 468 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,640 Myself, Nate Boudreaux who is a walk on but was a 64250. 469 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,400 Big dude had been in the system. He knew the offense incredibly 470 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,040 well. So we get we get you know, we 471 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,920 get into this football season about two weeks before the Iowa 472 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,040 game where Nate gets hurt. Chris Covington, linebacker, 473 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:00,440 awesome guy. By the way. 474 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,520 I love Chris, one of my favorite teammates. 475 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,240 He's playing catch on the field before practice. 476 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,880 Chris Covington can throw a football 80 yards with the 477 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,800 tightest spiral you've ever seen in your life effortlessly. 478 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,640 OK, so we're watching him, me, Nate, everybody before practice. 479 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,240 None of us have seen him pick up a football. 480 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,560 He's a freshman, too at this point. 481 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,880 I think he was a freshman. He's throwing the ball and we're 482 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,480 going, holy shit, this might be it. 483 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,600 They might have just found Jamarcus Russell and we're all 484 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,560 and and and I see the coaches seeing this and I'm like, oh, 485 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,320 this is it, dude. Like, like, I'm here. 486 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:45,240 I'm riding the bench. This dude's coming in, but but 487 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,560 also in the back of my mind, I'm going, OK, this guy's never 488 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,880 really played quarterback. This is a whole different thing. 489 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,240 I mean, being able to throw a football far is 1. 490 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,360 Very, very, very small trait that matters in the list of 491 00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,960 traits needed to play quarterback at a high level And 492 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:02,560 so. But anyway, it was freakish 493 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:08,000 athlete. And so the next day I show up at 494 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,400 practice. I don't remember if it was 495 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,400 literally the next day, but it was something like that. 496 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,920 I probably made some mistake or something. 497 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400 Or no, it's my weight. I wasn't gaining enough weight. 498 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,200 By the way, I'm eating 5000 calories. 499 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,360 I'm in a football, you know. Hard to By the way, hard to hard 500 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,480 to eat 5000 calories a day isn't. 501 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,000 It I used to throw up four days a week and I couldn't hold my 502 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,080 food down. It was on. 503 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,520 It was that's a whole nother story. 504 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,240 But the the tale of my career was always too skinny and they 505 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,800 thought I was some like party frat boy, which we can talk 506 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,680 about later. So anyway, so Wilson goes, 507 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,440 you're you're not gaining enough fucking weight one day. 508 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,080 Then he goes, Chris, you're playing quarterback, get over 509 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,880 here. They pull Chris Covington from 510 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,640 the defense. By the way, I'm the two at this 511 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,120 point behind Nate. We're in the middle of a 512 00:26:56,120 --> 00:27:00,480 football season. And Chris Covington, they start 513 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,920 trying to turn him into some Wildcat, you know, whatever 514 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,800 quarterback. He has a couple cool plays in 515 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,840 practice and they're like, OK, maybe there's something here. 516 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,200 We go to the Iowa game. I've now not had reps for two or 517 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,520 three weeks in practice, and even before that, I'm just the 518 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,840 skinny freshman. Nate's taken all my reps. 519 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,600 He's going step aside, dude, I'm playing. 520 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,480 I'm in the middle of a fucking football season. 521 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,840 Like, I'm taking these reps, and I don't blame him for that, by 522 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,160 the way. So they start giving all of my 523 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,360 reps to Chris. I'm just standing on the 524 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,440 sidelines getting cold, and we get to the Iowa game. 525 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,320 Nate goes down. Chris Covington goes in the 526 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,880 game, and I'm also standing there on the sideline during 527 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,960 that Iowa game thinking you guys better not fucking put me in 528 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,920 here. You haven't given me a Rep in 529 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,320 three weeks. Like like like I'm gonna, I'm 530 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,680 gonna lose it. So they they don't. 531 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,880 They put Chris in. Chris gets hurt that game. 532 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,640 By the way, I think he tore his ACLI show up the next day and 533 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,240 I'm sitting in the hot tub with my best friend on the team, Ty 534 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,280 Smith, who's Tracy Smith, the baseball coach's son. 535 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,760 He was a walk on and we're sitting in the hot tub and he's 536 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,960 just looking at me and his face is just white and he's like, 537 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,760 he's just like, dude, you're playing Michigan State next 538 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,240 week. Like you're always laugh. 539 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,760 You're QB one, man. You're QB one, like, he's just, 540 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,400 he's just like, and I'm standing here like this, All right, like, 541 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,920 let's go. This is kind of how my life 542 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,960 goes. Like, I had a similar experience 543 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,240 in high school when I took the position. 544 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,560 So I'm like whatever, like, you know, in my own delusion, I'm 545 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,680 like I'm going to go out there and ball out, you know, 546 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,320 whatever. So that's kind of how that whole 547 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,440 I'm, I kind of forgot the the initial question but that's how 548 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,000 that whole thing plays out so. Now. 549 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,120 Now we're going into Michigan State #1 defense in the country, 550 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:51,200 six NFL draft picks on the other on the other defense, and I've 551 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:57,800 had no reps for a month. My last game was against Sylmar 552 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,000 in LA, in the playoffs, high school football. 553 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,360 I weigh 158 lbs. And it's funny, 'cause the 554 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,080 announcers going into that game, they're like, they lied about my 555 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,400 weight to make me sound bigger. So they said I was 175. 556 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,200 They're like, Xander's coming out here. 557 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,760 He's looking pretty skinny. He's 175 lbs, I'm 158 lbs and 558 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,360 I'm like, dude, if I could ever weigh 175 lbs, I'm going to be 559 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,040 all big 10, is what I was thinking. 560 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,440 And so we go out to Michigan State. 561 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,480 I play absolutely terrible. The game is just, I mean, it's, 562 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,360 I can't even communicate to anybody who has not done it how 563 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,920 fast it's going, even just compared to practice and then 564 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,000 practice compared to high school games, games compared to 565 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,240 practice. The speed is like just like 566 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,160 nothing I've experienced and I I can't even throw a ball. 567 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,920 Like I can't throw the ball to a hitch route that I've thrown my 568 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,440 whole life. By the way, I was I wasn't even 569 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,320 considered a dual threat in high school, which is funny. 570 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,280 A lot of people at IU think I'm like some runner. 571 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,040 I was a pocket passer. I was always known my whole life 572 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,600 as a thrower until I came to college. 573 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,280 And so I can't. I'm throwing the ball into the 574 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,640 dirt. I can't even, like, feel my 575 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,640 limbs. It's just too significant of a 576 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,360 moment for me. I mean, I I go to snap. 577 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,640 I'll never forget. I go to take. 578 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,840 I think it was the first snap. I'm about to snap the ball and I 579 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,080 look up and on the Jumbotron is the camera is on my face. 580 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600 So my face is the entirety of the Jumbotron. 581 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,960 And I go look up and I'm seeing myself at 300 feet. 582 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,760 And I'm about to take the first step against Michigan State on 583 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,120 homecoming, on national TV, against the best defense in the 584 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,920 country. And I freeze and I'm like, oh, 585 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,160 OK, wait. And now I snap the ball. 586 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,600 So yeah, that's how that all started. 587 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,040 Well and and you talk about the Big 10 E like you know on top of 588 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,120 all of that you're you get in the teeth of that like you have 589 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,440 Michigan State who had the best defense in the country that year 590 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,240 and then the rest of your games. And I know you know this, but 591 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,880 it's like you're for to relive the audience. 592 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,240 You're then at Michigan, home to Penn State, I guess a breather 593 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,200 at Rutgers and then you're at Ohio State. 594 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,760 Like you just get you get at Michigan, at Ohio State, Penn 595 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,480 State and and maybe the best Michigan State team in like 20 596 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,040 years. Like you got the teeth of the. 597 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,680 Big 10 E Like right in your freshman year? 598 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,520 Yeah, I don't know how many people really had an 599 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,680 understanding of the situation I was in, but it's as basically as 600 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,480 bad of a situation as you can be put in in college football, 601 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,200 period. No warm up games, no Gimme 602 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,680 games. I didn't get to play Indiana 603 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,880 State. I never got to like and and 604 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,600 again like I said, I wasn't getting any reps. 605 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,760 So it was actually worse behind the scenes than people thought 606 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,160 it was on the surface. And you know, I'm coming from a 607 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,800 senior football season where I was the man, I was LA City 608 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,000 player of the year. I threw 50 touchdowns like, you 609 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,080 know it. It was quite a humbling learning 610 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,280 experience and and an incredible experience and so yeah, I mean 611 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,680 speaking to to your point about the the falling games, I'll kind 612 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,080 of talk through those a little bit. 613 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,200 So the next week I go into Michigan in the Big House and I 614 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,400 have a really good week of practice. 615 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,760 I'm feeling pretty good. But it's Friday before the 616 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,480 Saturday game. It's 19° out with wind. 617 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,480 Chill, Wilson goes. We're going to practice outside, 618 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,960 OK? Not what I would do, but let's 619 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,080 let's go. We practice outside. 620 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,560 The ball is a ice cube. No one can do anything. 621 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,040 There's fumbles all over the field. 622 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,720 No one's catching it like it was just the sloppiest, worst 623 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,720 pregame practice that you could have had. 624 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,160 And my hands are numb and the ball keeps getting snapped at 625 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,040 me. And I I would drop it and then 626 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,600 pick it up off the ground and to proceed with the play. 627 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,920 Wilson comes up to me and guts me in front of the team. 628 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,560 And by the way, I have no problem with being coached hard. 629 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,960 My high school head coach would fucking grab me, punch me in the 630 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,920 chest on the sideline. And I love this man. 631 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,600 So it's this isn't like I have some issue being coached hard by 632 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,360 any means. I actually prefer that style of 633 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,840 coaching. But Wilson guts me in front of 634 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,480 the team. All the quarterbacks are 635 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,400 standing around me and he basically says if we don't go to 636 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,600 a ball game this year, it's my fault. 637 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,800 And I'm like, I'm, I have fucking tears rolling down my 638 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,720 face. I'm like, Oh my God, this is 639 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,200 terrible. Like, it just was the worst way 640 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,640 to go into a game. So the next, the next day I'm 641 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,960 playing Michigan in the Big House and I have a a slightly 642 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,640 better game, slightly better. I mean, I I have a couple runs, 643 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,400 I feel a little more comfortable, but it's still 644 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,880 atrocious. I mean, just terrible. 645 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,880 But I break for one run where I had like a 45 yard run down the 646 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,600 sideline and embarrassingly, I step out of bounds sooner than I 647 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,200 should have. There was a guy on my back 648 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,200 again, I think this guy's right on me, but he's like 6 yards 649 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,920 behind me. I could have kept going for 650 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,800 another 20 yards. I step out of bounds. 651 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,800 I come to to practice the next day. 652 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,880 John's goes on a rant about that, about the fact that I've 653 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,760 embarrassed myself on national TV because I stepped out of 654 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,880 bounds early and I'm not really the type to take it like. 655 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,320 So I kind of give it back to him. 656 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,719 And I say some things about the fact that he played D3 football 657 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,600 and he's never fucking been on a national stage. 658 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,960 And you know some shit like that. 659 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,520 And I I do like 2000 yards of bear crawls or whatever. 660 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,480 My punishment was that day and we get into an absolute yelling 661 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,719 match in front of the offense and and I think I threw my cleat 662 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,960 at him and it just crazed right by him and so we got into it 663 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,679 pretty pretty bad and and and again part of the place that I'm 664 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,080 internally coming from is like you guys put me in this position 665 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,880 like you got rid of Trey. You didn't give me reps and now 666 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,440 you're gonna make this out to be like, I'm fucking this season. 667 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,800 You know, like I didn't ask for this and and that's again, like 668 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,480 the the perspective of a 1920 year old in this kind of 669 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,160 situation. And so the following week I 670 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,840 think you said we had Penn State at home. 671 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,200 I play. I I remember it like yesterday I 672 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,560 snapped the ball and there's just a moment where everything 673 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,560 slowed down and it's like high school again. 674 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,600 And I was like, OK, this is what I've been waiting for. 675 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,360 This is what you're supposed to do on game two or three of the 676 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,000 preseason playing nobody schools. 677 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,520 And I finally have this moment where everything just goes and I 678 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,720 see my my receiver running a little 5 yard in route and I put 679 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,160 it on him and I'm like OK, I can play. 680 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,160 And I finally have my first like actual game against Penn State 681 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,800 and we go toe to toe with Penn State. 682 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,600 We were in a battle with them and it was a very low scoring 683 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,360 physical game. I mean, I was getting just 684 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,560 smoked all over the field running, diving from first 685 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,320 downs. And after that game I really got 686 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,600 the the respect of the team and Anthony Cursaro our our walk on 687 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,000 tight end. Awesome guy, love him, still 688 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,240 talk to him to to this day and he comes in the locker room and 689 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:03,640 he's like, dude, you fucking fought your ass off. 690 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,520 And so this was kind of the shift moment. 691 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,600 We go to Rutgers the next week. A lot of people don't remember 692 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,680 that game. I had 13 dropped passes against 693 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,520 Rutgers, 13 drop passes. Again. 694 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:19,880 I throw my first touchdown to Shane. 695 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,200 When everything slows down, this is finally, again, by no means a 696 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,240 Gimme game, this is a Big Ten team, but but it's an easier 697 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:29,320 opponent. First play of the game, I think 698 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,720 I run for a first down and I'm like, OK, I'm feeling good. 699 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:33,600 I'm feeling loose. I know the offense now I'm I'm, 700 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,480 I'm getting comfortable and we come in. 701 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,320 We come into our offensive meeting the next week and to his 702 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,400 credit Coach Johns puts up a a a slide showing every dropped pass 703 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,920 from that game where I hit dudes right here in the face. 704 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,560 And we did a calculation of what the offensive the offense would 705 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,720 have looked like that year and it or that game and it would 706 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,000 have been about 330 yards passing. 707 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,760 And for sure we beat them. And so again the narrative is 708 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,880 still Xander can't throw. He sucks. 709 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,240 It's this, it's that. But if you watch that game it 710 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:08,920 was really a different story. Whatever. 711 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,560 I'm not going to change anyone's opinion today. 712 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,000 It doesn't, it doesn't really matter. 713 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,920 But I think the next week we go to Ohio State, we're in the 714 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,360 Horseshoe again. I'm feeling pretty good coming 715 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,600 off that Rutgers game and I have a pretty darn good showing in 716 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,120 the Horseshoe against the best team in the country. 717 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,000 Again, not something to brag about, but I have some 718 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,400 significant passes. I have a huge run that goes down 719 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,400 to the one yard line and we are beating them going into the 720 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,560 half, to Tevin Coleman's credit, by the way, let me just be clear 721 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,280 about that. So now we're going into the 722 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,040 Purdue game. I think is is right after that 723 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,800 back at home and I'm like, this is the one we cannot lose. 724 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,840 Like nothing matters except for this game. 725 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,600 Like we're winning this fucking game. 726 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,000 Granted, I'm having to go into class like this every week, 727 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000 'cause I'm like, dude, I'm not trying to be the guy who's, you 728 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,000 know, destroying this season where we beat Missouri and we're 729 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,160 probably gonna go to our first bowl game, for sure would have 730 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,400 gone to our first bowl game. For those for those listening on 731 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,720 the podcast only, he put his hood over his head there. 732 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:15,280 So, yeah, just Anyway, sorry, go ahead. 733 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:16,640 Sorry, sorry I didn't think about that. 734 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,160 But I mean I I I I remember I think 2 weeks prior I I went to 735 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,280 some party after a game or something like that and I'm 736 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,840 literally getting heckled going into the frat house, you know, 737 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,080 and it's like I but I totally get it. 738 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,000 Again I'm not complaining. That's that's the role. 739 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,280 That's what I signed up for. And you know I I I like being in 740 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:40,280 that position but but it was a a an interesting time in my life 741 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,120 and so I go into the Purdue game and and we've got to win. 742 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,320 We have a great week of practice. 743 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,600 I'm playing the best football I've played. 744 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,960 I know the offense now also part of it was like, you know, they 745 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,480 have to open up the offense for me. 746 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,240 You can't keep putting me in this position where it's first 747 00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:58,800 down handed to Tevin. Second down handed to Tevin, OK, 748 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,880 it's third and 12. Xander, make something happen 749 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,760 like that's not how you fucking play football and and the 750 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,480 coaching staff knew that. But also you're kind of in this 751 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:11,320 catch 22 of like, are we putting it in the hands of the 158 LB 752 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,120 freshman that didn't get any reps or are we going to hand it 753 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,880 to our Heisman running back? Obviously you're going to hand 754 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,480 it to your Heisman running back. So we get into the Purdue game 755 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,440 and they actually start to open up the offense for me and it's 756 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:26,720 my best showing of the season and we get into this, You know, 757 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,280 we end up in this kind of needing to get a game-winning 758 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,400 drive. I throw a a really late flat to 759 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,000 Shane. When he catches it, he makes an 760 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,800 incredible diving first down. We get to the middle of the 761 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,560 field and we call I think it was Ohio. 762 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,520 It's like a curl flat concept and for the only time I've ever 763 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,840 thrown that ball that whole season, for whatever reason, 764 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,600 they're playing cover two in the the curl in the middle of the 765 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,120 field opens up, which is like the fourth option on that play. 766 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,880 And I hit Shane when he gets a first down, then we're marching 767 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,000 down. D'Angelo has some unbelievable 768 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:03,360 runs, then it's we're on that one yard line and they call an 769 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,640 inside hand off to to D'Angelo. I see an opening. 770 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,720 I know I'm walking in the end zone. 771 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,320 I pull the ball. That was not part of the play, 772 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,640 by the way. My first touchdown when I was a 773 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,120 freshman, I'm sorry, My first touchdown in the first game of 774 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,520 the season against Michigan State. 775 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,600 I pull the ball to score that first run. 776 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,560 And that was not part of our offense either. 777 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,640 But I see a guarantee and this is a critical situation. 778 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,960 I pull the ball. I score glory. 779 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,240 Finally we get the win. Now everyone loves me and you 780 00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:38,840 know whatever it's great and and that leads to this kind of. 781 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,440 I mean that that win was life changing for me. 782 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,760 Best high to end on possible in in that season. 783 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,840 Going to the locker room I'm sure this is. 784 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,040 Before you get to the long run, I I'm curious 'cause even as a a 785 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,880 fan at that game and I remember looking like it doesn't look 786 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,680 like the play was called for Xander to to do a run like I'm 787 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,600 and you said it happened the Michigan State game. 788 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,280 How does you know the Purdue one wins the game? 789 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,640 What's the reaction of the coaching staff and Kevin Wilson 790 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,960 when you come back after that? Is it kind of like a? 791 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,560 You shouldn't have done that, but it's a good thing it worked 792 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,400 or else you're doing 5000 yards of? 793 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,360 Yeah, that that's exactly what it is. 794 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:26,840 It was trying to think like what he he kind of like he he goes to 795 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,560 shake my hand and he like aggressively kind of pulled me 796 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,800 in and he's like he said something like if that didn't 797 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,360 fucking work, like you're done, you know, like like literally, 798 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,000 like it was just very intense, right? 799 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,840 And I'm like, well, it did work, motherfucker. 800 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,520 So. Whatever and so. 801 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,160 Bucket baby. Yeah. 802 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,200 And I and I will say, you know, like to this day, and I know 803 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,960 that Wilson had the same perspective and I know D'Angelo 804 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,600 to some degree had the same perspective. 805 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,360 D'Angelo had a couple huge runs. He was one of those guys who was 806 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,680 also like the heart of our Team Bloomington kid. 807 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:09,040 I wish D'Angelo had that moment. Like in all honesty, like if 808 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,400 anyone deserves to have the glory in that moment, the 809 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,880 game-winning in this tumultuous season, it was D'Angelo and I 810 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,080 took that from him. I took it in the moment of like 811 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,080 in. I took it in the moment of like 812 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,200 a heated game. Obviously I'm just reacting. 813 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,440 It was not an intentional. I want the touchdown. 814 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,880 It obviously had nothing to do with that and I know D'Angelo 815 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,160 knows that. He said that to me, but but 816 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,400 still, like he should have had that moment. 817 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,520 And so that was something that Wilson brought up, you know, I 818 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:47,280 think in front of the team like that, if I like I if that didn't 819 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,880 work, I would be fucked, basically. 820 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,640 So yeah. Anyway, sorry. 821 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:55,840 Sorry. So you're you get to the locker 822 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:56,320 room? Yes. 823 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,160 Let's go. So I mean, you know, obviously 824 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,160 great moment on the field after the fans are on the field, my 825 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,040 dad comes down and we're just like finally, you know, it was 826 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,040 just such a hard, hard year and we go into the locker room, 827 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,840 everybody's stoked, we got the bucket and one of the 828 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,120 administrators is handing out cigars. 829 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,160 So I never knew about a no smoking rule. 830 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,960 And if the administrator's handing out cigars, I'm thinking 831 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,840 what the fuck? I mean, you're supposed to light 832 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,680 these, aren't you? We're not chewing on it. 833 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,080 And so, So we're in the locker room, everybody's smoking cigars 834 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,640 and I pose for a picture, bucket cigar. 835 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,680 It's a great shot, goes on my Instagram and it just goes 836 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,320 haywire, which I had. I did not expect to any degree. 837 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,680 You know, if anything, I would have thought everybody would 838 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,200 hate on it and be like, yo, you're a loser. 839 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,600 You had a terrible season. Don't stop trying to flex at the 840 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:50,360 end. You know what I mean? 841 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,320 Like, that's what I would have thought probably would have been 842 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,960 the reaction, but it wasn't. It was the total opposite to the 843 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,800 Indiana fan base's credit. So. 844 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,360 So that moment happens, obviously. 845 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,600 Go out that night, great time. The teams together, celebratory 846 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,000 moment. The next day we come into our 847 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,120 meeting. Wilson walks into this meeting, 848 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,600 he walks in and he's pissed. It's like, you can immediately 849 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:19,560 tell and everybody's kind of looking at each other like, OK, 850 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,840 dude, we just had this like, very tough season. 851 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,880 No one asked for Sandra to have to be thrown into this 852 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,880 situation. Like, we just beat Purdue. 853 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,600 What are you pissed about? He gets in the meeting and he 854 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:36,800 goes, he brings up the photo and he says, quote, UN quote, this 855 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,160 is the most embarrassing moment of my football career in front 856 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,200 of the whole team and I'm thinking to myself, you went one 857 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,640 in 10. How is this the most 858 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,400 embarrassing moment of your football career? 859 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,040 One in 11, yeah. One in 11 and that's I'm 860 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,160 thinking, how is this the most embarrassing moment of your 861 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,480 football career? Like, what are you talking 862 00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:01,200 about? And again I just get kind of put 863 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,520 on this. I get made an example of in 864 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:09,360 front of the team the the whole team completely disagreed with 865 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,080 this sentiment. Obviously it's not like everyone 866 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,640 else if if the whole team was looking at me going, dude, not 867 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,480 cool you made it about you or or something which obviously none 868 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,080 of those perspectives are sensical in any in any measure. 869 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,000 And so you know he he, he, he just kind of uses this to make 870 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,240 an example of me and it just, you know, I don't know what it 871 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:38,080 was about. But these guys just had this 872 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:44,560 this problem with me for the fact that I was too skinny for 873 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,920 the fact that I was a little flashy, that I was confident 874 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,720 that I, you know, whatever it it was. 875 00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:55,400 But the the strangest part about it for me was that's why they 876 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,320 recruited me. Like when Wilson offered me, he 877 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,440 sat me in his office and he's like, dude, I watch your tape. 878 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,000 I love your energy. I love how your teammates rally 879 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,000 around you. I love the swag. 880 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,200 The word he used was the swag you play with. 881 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:15,360 And so then when that actually is on display on their team, 882 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:20,840 suddenly it's like this problem. And and this, to me was also a 883 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,640 reflection of part of the problem with Indiana football. 884 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:31,080 Because if we were celebrating, if we were energetic, Wilson 885 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:37,320 wanted to kind of shut it down. And it was like, dude, we're 886 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,400 feeling good. We're feeling confident. 887 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,920 We're playing Michigan, we're playing Ohio State. 888 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,080 Like, let the ethos of the team be what it's going to be in that 889 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,240 moment. Yeah, there's a limit. 890 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:49,640 There's a line you don't want to cross. 891 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,560 But we were never close and it was like, this is the missing 892 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,560 ingredient. Well. 893 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,840 Why do you think that is? I mean, because on the one hand, 894 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,760 Wilson's trying to get more attention on the program. 895 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,240 He's he's trying to change up the branding, he's doing all 896 00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,880 these things. I mean that seems like it's a 897 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,520 disconnect from from that particular approach. 898 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,560 Well, well, the first thing I'll say is it wasn't just Wilson. 899 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,680 Coach Johns was the same way The OC and again I I just want to be 900 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,400 clear. I'm not just for anyone 901 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,360 listening. I'm not trying to make myself 902 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,560 out to be some victim. I'm not trying to build to to 903 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,560 paint these coaches in some bad light. 904 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,840 These got first of all being a head coach in college football 905 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,440 is one of the hardest jobs on planet earth. 906 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,120 OK, so anyone who can even do it I I give credit to. 907 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,280 Also Wilson was not all bad. Coach Johns was not all bad. 908 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:43,320 I had great times with them and they definitely had, especially 909 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,520 as I got older. They had a deep respect for me 910 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,800 and I had a deep respect for them. 911 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,640 I busted my fucking ass. I played hard as hell and I 912 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,920 showed up every practice like it was a game. 913 00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,000 And so I I just want to be clear that I'm not trying to paint 914 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,920 some narrative because the media has already. 915 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,880 When I left, they kind of took things a little further than I 916 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,520 meant for them to go. But you ask why that is. 917 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,040 First of all, in this case of Kevin Johns, Kevin is just a 918 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:16,160 conservative by the book guy. OK, so our personalities are 919 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,600 completely different. He's from middle America, super 920 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,320 conservative. I'm from LA. 921 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:25,800 My dad was an actor and I went to school in LA City, so we were 922 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:33,040 just different in that way. Coach Wilson, I I can't fully 923 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:38,680 wrap my head around what where it came from with him because to 924 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,560 your point, he wanted the program to have attention. 925 00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,640 He wanted us to have money. He wanted us to have the sexiest 926 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:50,520 offense in the Big 10. To me, there was some weird 927 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:57,480 insecurity around a player or certain players getting the 928 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,680 attention. Suddenly, it's not about this 929 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:06,800 offensive mastermind and it's about Xander or it's about Tevin 930 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,240 or whoever, you know, Shane or what, whatever it was. 931 00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,320 And I think also there was this weird. 932 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,880 I was kind of in this weird situation, because by no means 933 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,960 at that point in time was I the best player on the team, right? 934 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,040 But I was the most known player on the team. 935 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,920 More people knew me walking around campus than probably knew 936 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,680 Tevin Coleman, which was kind of a weird thing. 937 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,000 And so like to your point, like you use the word like folklore 938 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,600 folk. Full hero. 939 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:40,840 Yeah, like I I had kind of that thing going and I think that 940 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,960 bothered Kevin. And again, like, I'm not saying 941 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,920 that he's wrong for feeling that way. 942 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:52,360 He didn't handle it the right way and he didn't harness it. 943 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,440 And the best coaches, when they have a guy like that, they use 944 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,600 it and they harness it and they, you know they they they have a 945 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,280 way of kind of of of harnessing it and and turning it into 946 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,240 something more and rallying the team around it. 947 00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:12,080 And you know and so he just didn't do that and he had this 948 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,600 this weird thing towards me and he'd have these moments where he 949 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,960 was he fucking, he loved me because of the way that I played 950 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,360 and how hard I played and I was tough and all those things. 951 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,560 And I I think to some degree I kind of reminded him of him 952 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,280 because he was a smaller guy. He was a walk on he he played 953 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:30,360 football and so I was sort of that actualized and then but 954 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:36,280 also he like hated attention not being on him or being on anybody 955 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,240 I guess. And so yeah, I don't, I I don't 956 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:44,760 fully understand the psychology of it, but it was it was it was 957 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,960 very difficult to manage as a player, I'll say that. 958 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,720 Yeah well it's probably, I mean in a weird way it's good it 959 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:53,240 happened then. I know it's always like the the 960 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,680 everyone talks about now like man and you know under nil 961 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,480 rules. But you know had had that 962 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,920 happened today, that picture would have been immediately like 963 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,120 you know T-shirts. Nil like it it would have 964 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,120 probably been an even bigger sore point for Kevin Wilson type 965 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,720 because then it's like you're probably making nil money on it 966 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,760 and it would have even caused more of a strife. 967 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,440 But I I I hear you and it's it's for me as a fan, like, I love 968 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,920 the picture. Like that's something I think we 969 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,320 like with, you know, Coach Cignetti coming on now, kind of 970 00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,680 having that swagger. Like I think as IU football fans 971 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,560 we are looking for a little bit of that swagger. 972 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,280 And that was kind of this one moment. 973 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,320 It's like, oh man, we there's this Xander with the bucket. 974 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:34,800 Like, let's go like this is great. 975 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,840 And it's a bummer to hear retrospectively that it wasn't, 976 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:39,760 you know, it felt like that could have been something that 977 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,840 was leaned into. And it's almost a great story of 978 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,040 like, hey, like this was a guy who wasn't supposed to be 979 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,880 starting at the end. But, you know we we got him to a 980 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,440 point where we won a bucket game and like, he's fired up and like 981 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,440 this is kind of a great recruiting story. 982 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,600 It's a it's kind of a missed opportunity that wasn't used 983 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,120 that way. Yeah, I completely agree. 984 00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,360 It was. It was a missed opportunity. 985 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,520 It was frustrating. And the reality is, is if you 986 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,040 are going to be a football program that is going to turn 987 00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:08,520 the tide of history, you're going to need some other X 988 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,520 ingredient, something that you didn't draw on a whiteboard. 989 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,920 And I think Deion Sanders understands that. 990 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:20,520 And you see these programs that that go through a shift and they 991 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,920 understand that and unfortunately, I think Wilson 992 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,680 just didn't. Well, OK, so I want to get to a 993 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,080 couple of things in order after that then. 994 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,480 So the next two seasons you do kind of change history a bit. 995 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,760 Indiana goes to back-to-back bowl games for the first time in 996 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,560 forever, goes to a bowl game for the first time in in almost a 997 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,480 decade in 2015. I mean what was the vibe and and 998 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,000 the overall experience like on those teams? 999 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,840 People forget how weird that 2015 season was. 1000 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,800 You know you win four games to start the season obviously Sud 1001 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,960 Feld's back and and and so forth. 1002 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,440 But then a six game losing streak in the middle of the 1003 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,520 season and and that normally means audios, machachos, like 1004 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,640 we're not coming out of this tailspin only to come back and 1005 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,280 win those final two games and then get into the road, on the 1006 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,720 road and get into that game. You know the pinstripal. 1007 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:15,200 So what was that ride like and and was there a was there 1008 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,200 something tangibly that changed that allowed that season to end 1009 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,640 differently than what we'd seen from IU football previously? 1010 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,840 I think one thing is that freshman team, I think if I 1011 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,000 remember correctly, we had a pretty young receiver group. 1012 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,360 So all of those guys were back, basically, except for maybe Nick 1013 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:34,960 Stoner. But all those guys were back, 1014 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,040 what, my sophomore year? So that that following season 1015 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,000 Suddi came off that injury. So he's fired up. 1016 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,520 It's it's his NFL year. Like he's, he knows he's got to 1017 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,760 show out. We just like to be honest, first 1018 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,800 of all we had a shit load of talent. 1019 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,280 Like just straight up a ton of talent. 1020 00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,800 Again, I think Jordan Howard came that year. 1021 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,200 Jordan was an unbelievable running back. 1022 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:12,640 Like everybody talks about Tevin again, I don't want to even in 1023 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,960 the slightest make it sound like I'm knocking anyone or comparing 1024 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:23,520 anybody, but but Jordan brought a certain level of physicality 1025 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:29,880 that Tevin and no running back that I've ever been around since 1026 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:36,280 like Pop Warner has brought. When we played Michigan, Jordan 1027 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,160 was punishing people on the field. 1028 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,480 And when you have that combined with the ability to spread out 1029 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,000 the field with an NFL caliber quarterback, throw the ball 1030 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,960 everywhere, hurry up offense and you're punishing the defense on 1031 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,360 the ground. And you've got Dan Feeney and 1032 00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,160 Jason Spriggs, who are NFL caliber lineman, and Colin 1033 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:04,240 Rehrig, who was also incredible. And even a change of pace back 1034 00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,560 'cause Devine Redding was, was the back up and ran for 1000 1035 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,200 yards. Hundred, 100% that. 1036 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:18,280 That concoction was right. And you've got Suddy now, and 1037 00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,040 you've also got me now coming off of that whole freshman 1038 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,840 season. I was a different guy my 1039 00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:29,000 sophomore year so I'm also pushing Suddy again I don't know 1040 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,440 if he would say this but I that's how I felt at least in in 1041 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,760 in fall camp and and in some of these things like to some degree 1042 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:41,040 I did end the season with some electricity and he's definitely 1043 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:42,240 you. You know, we're both very 1044 00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:45,200 competitive and I love study, but we, we were competitive with 1045 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,280 each other for sure, like we were boys. 1046 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,440 But when we stepped on the field it was there's a little bit of 1047 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,720 like, you know, we're competing even even though it was studies 1048 00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:55,200 team, like, I just want to be clear about that. 1049 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,000 I'm not trying to make it sound like we were truly competing. 1050 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,240 I felt like we were, but I also knew it was studies team. 1051 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:06,120 So all of those things are there. 1052 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,920 We also have the feeling of like, OK, well last season 1053 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,920 should have been a bowl season, a story season, and it wasn't 1054 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,640 and it was kind of out of everyone's control. 1055 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,200 This season, it's gonna be that year and to be honest we should 1056 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,520 have won more games even that season. 1057 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,640 And I will say this is my personal feeling. 1058 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,280 I don't know if anyone else on the team will agree. 1059 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,600 I think I could have been utilized the way that I was 1060 00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:37,200 utilized my junior year as this mix up, short down sort of 1061 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,520 quarterback. I think if they use me that way 1062 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:45,560 my sophomore year we we bring another edge that probably gets 1063 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,200 us another win or two. That's just my personal feeling. 1064 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,920 But but we're just a fucking really, really, really good 1065 00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,800 football team. Then we have the whole Ohio 1066 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:58,320 State thing where I get again, here I am like best team in the 1067 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,320 country, biggest moment of the season. 1068 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,280 I come up, I'm, I'm getting thrown on the field, my arm is 1069 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:09,280 completely cold like and I have this moment again. 1070 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,880 And even though that moment was short lived, after that game I 1071 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,760 go to Penn State and I get hurt. That still gave an energy, a 1072 00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,040 momentum. I mean, everyone was talking 1073 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,520 about us after that Ohio State game. 1074 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,800 It was the third most, I believe it was the third most watched 1075 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,200 regular season college football game that year. 1076 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,360 And so that just also creates a ton of energy. 1077 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,920 So we have all these things kind of working with us and we know 1078 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:40,320 we're good and I think that all just added up to us being a very 1079 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,800 good football team. This was the around the time 1080 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:48,600 that national media dubs Indiana football chaos team. 1081 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,360 Yeah, 'cause it felt like every time you turn on national 1082 00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,000 television, you know it's a 7 point game versus Ohio State or 1083 00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,560 or it's you know, you're you're in a a back and forth with 1084 00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,120 Michigan. You know that was the that was 1085 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,280 the the infamous overtime game against Michigan that year at 1086 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,840 home. Or it's the opposite it you're 1087 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,880 up 20 on Rutgers in the fourth quarter and then and then 1088 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,480 everything collapses. Like, I mean, obviously it takes 1089 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,400 a lot of skill as we've seen these last several years of IU 1090 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,000 football to be in those games in the 1st place. 1091 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,920 What was it about the the way that the program ran that made 1092 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,360 it possible, I guess, to be in those games, but also sometimes 1093 00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,720 kind of kept having the team come up just short in some of 1094 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,080 those games? Yeah, I mean, to me again, being 1095 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,040 in those games won talent. We we actually had the talent, 1096 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:36,840 'cause you can have the cool spread offense and all that 1097 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,120 shit. It doesn't work if you don't 1098 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,800 have talent, which we can kind of you kind of see to some 1099 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,200 degree in the following season. But we had legit talent, which 1100 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,920 is a testament to Wilson. The recruiting, they had a 1101 00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:50,600 mindset of recruiting that I've also commented I think was kind 1102 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,960 of lost in the last couple of years of. 1103 00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,040 We're not looking for like 5 stars. 1104 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,600 We want elite three star guys that are kind of under the 1105 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,080 radar. If you can sprinkle in a couple 1106 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,400 of those five star dudes that you steal, great. 1107 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,920 But I can tell you in my time at IU, we had a couple Five Star 1108 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,080 guys. They were not what you thought 1109 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,000 they were. Wait, I'm just. 1110 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,160 I want to point and and get Scott to acknowledge this 1111 00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:18,760 because I've been arguing this for years. 1112 00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,560 Like the the surest sign that a a four or five star wasn't 1113 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,720 actually that. As if they ended up on Indiana's 1114 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,680 roster. I mean, I mean it's it's a 1115 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,720 really good point like and and and yeah, it it's a very good 1116 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,360 point. Like there's usually a reason. 1117 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,520 Now if you can get a guy to transfer from a junior college, 1118 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,600 maybe he didn't have the grades or he got in trouble or 1119 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:43,480 something. That's different. 1120 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,560 You can go get, you can go out there and get a freak. 1121 00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,200 And Camion Patrick, who I talked about, was one of those. 1122 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,120 He never got to really play, but he was one of those. 1123 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:59,040 Jordan Howard was one of those. And so where where was I we? 1124 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,160 Were just talking. About the talent, So one that 1125 01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,560 one. The talent 2. 1126 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:09,480 Wilson's ability and the whole and and the entire staff, By the 1127 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,080 way, Coach Frye was instrumental watching film. 1128 01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:16,600 Even as a line coach. Coach John's, he was very good 1129 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,600 as well. He never really got to like in 1130 01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,280 my opinion, be his full self because he was kind of under the 1131 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,360 the thumb of Wilson, because Wilson's such an offensive guy. 1132 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,400 So there's always this kind of weird energy where it was like, 1133 01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,840 whose offense is this, you know, which is not a good way to run 1134 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,640 an offense. But anyway, the other reason is 1135 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:42,040 because Wilson is a genius. And we would watch film and we 1136 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,000 knew exactly what the defense was going to do, and we knew 1137 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:46,560 exactly how we were going to beat it. 1138 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,520 And we would come up with wrinkles of offense that would 1139 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,520 truly make the difference in those games. 1140 01:00:55,120 --> 01:01:00,120 And when the whole offense is starting to watch film that way 1141 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,400 and you're sitting in the room and the quarterbacks especially, 1142 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,600 you sit in the room there with Wilson for hours and hours and 1143 01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,680 hours on end. You start to see what he's 1144 01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:08,400 seeing, and then you start to see it. 1145 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:15,520 And this happens in, well, we could talk about the junior 1146 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,120 season after, but the point is, is like when you actually have 1147 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,000 those minds around, it's a different thing. 1148 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:26,440 It it just is. And so again, like those are 1149 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,440 kind of the the, the ingredients that add up or added up for us 1150 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,640 to kind of turning that tide. And when you ask about like some 1151 01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,760 of these games that we lost, that we should have won, to me 1152 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:47,240 that comes back to this like this weird control and pressure 1153 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:51,480 that Wilson felt the need to apply to the team. 1154 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,280 And to me it always was like at the wrong time. 1155 01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:00,200 It was like, dude, you're you're, you should have had this 1156 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:06,000 tone and this vibe 2 weeks before the start of season for a 1157 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,800 week, not in the middle of season coming off of a good 1158 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,760 stretch. We're rolling into another team. 1159 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,720 We're super confident, like it just there was just this, in the 1160 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,280 same way that we went like this up and down. 1161 01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:23,040 Well, who is our coach? He had his demeanor. 1162 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,760 Was that so is it? Is it? 1163 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,000 Is it a surprise that we're a reflection of the leader? 1164 01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:34,440 Of course it's not. So no different than you look at 1165 01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,160 the Tom Allen team, not that they were anything perfect, but 1166 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,320 the whole team is like this lovey dovey, you know, like like 1167 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,280 Leo thing and again, not saying I love that, hate it, whatever. 1168 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,080 No, no, no opinion. I'm just saying like you are a 1169 01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,120 reflection of the guy leading the charge. 1170 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:58,680 And to me, I always saw that up and down thing as sort of a 1171 01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,840 reflection of of the staff. One other question I have just 1172 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:07,080 from that that that particular season as a guy who after the 1173 01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,880 2015 season named my fantasy football team, the kick was good 1174 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,560 for seven, seven years. It's since been changed. 1175 01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,680 So sorry, but the kick was good at the end of that game. 1176 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:21,200 I'm just always curious like, how how do you, if you're Wilson 1177 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,640 and that staff like, that kick was good? 1178 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,720 I mean, I know it's like they called it not good. 1179 01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,600 How do you just like, what is that like? 1180 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:30,440 And does Wilson, when do you just walk off? 1181 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,160 Because I'm Wilson just like, I'm like, screw it, I'm just 1182 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,160 staying here forever. Like I'm going to stay here 1183 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:35,760 until the Yankees start spring training. 1184 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:37,720 Like, screw you all, Like that kick was good. 1185 01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,840 Like you have to fight. Like, I'm just, I'm curious how 1186 01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,840 that all went down because I'm watching the game and it's like, 1187 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,360 all right, that's over. Like it it, it, it's mind 1188 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,080 boggling. It's such an IU thing to, like, 1189 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,400 lose a bowl game that way. Yeah, it is. 1190 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,040 I mean, are you just asking kind of what was the vibe after that 1191 01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:59,400 game? I guess so, yeah. 1192 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:04,000 Like, I mean, I'll say this, I I I was. 1193 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,680 I'm not the best person to ask because I was coming off of an 1194 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,320 injury and I just started to get healthy only a couple weeks 1195 01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,960 before that. So to me, like we're all living 1196 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,360 in our own little movie. And for meanwhile, season was 1197 01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:15,600 kind of. Over. 1198 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,240 And I'm like, maybe they'll put me in for this. 1199 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:19,840 I was. I started playing some receiver 1200 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,800 in practice because I was like, why not? 1201 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,320 Like, I like, I started just like kind of messing around, not 1202 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:27,960 messing around. I was doing it seriously, but I 1203 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,440 just mean like trying. My thing was like put me on the 1204 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,840 field. I don't care in what capacity I 1205 01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:37,760 want to help the team win And so, so going into that game, I 1206 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,280 was a little bit like I kind of knew my personal season was 1207 01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,800 over. There's a different vibe that 1208 01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,160 the guys who are actually in those games and you know are 1209 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,760 going to be instrumental that they have. 1210 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,720 And so for me, my feeling was more just frustration in that 1211 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,320 game because all I'm thinking about on the sideline is put me 1212 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,280 in on 3rd and short, let me do an option read and like let me 1213 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:00,880 do my thing, I can help us win this. 1214 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,120 But the whole vibe of the team after that field goal was, I 1215 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,000 think you said it perfectly is like this is such an Indiana 1216 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,360 thing to happen. That was a very good Duke team, 1217 01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:18,160 very well coached. Obviously that was Coach. 1218 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,200 What was his name? David Cutcliffe still. 1219 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,600 Yeah, Cutcliffe, that was my my brother's coach, actually at 1220 01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,800 Duke for a period of time. Recruited my little brother. 1221 01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:30,400 Incredible guy. And it was just frustrating, 1222 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,640 demoralizing. But also, like, I, I will say, 1223 01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:36,080 just to be honest, like there is a little bit of a feeling around 1224 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:42,160 bowl games in general where it's like this is, it's not, it's not 1225 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,160 the Big 10 championship, you know, like it's a bowl game. 1226 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,160 So even though it like came, everyone's pissed. 1227 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,080 It's frustrated. It's like, OK, we're in New York 1228 01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:52,400 City. This is really more of like, 1229 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,760 it's more of an exhibition. It almost feels like to some 1230 01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,480 degree, which I'm not saying is like the right vibe, but like, 1231 01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,560 you can't really help it, like leading up to the whole thing. 1232 01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,840 It's like fun media stuff, gifts. 1233 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,000 It's like, it's like, it's not really like, it's not really 1234 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:09,560 like it. It doesn't have the same feeling 1235 01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,160 that a championship would, where it's like this is the the tip of 1236 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,080 the spear pinnacle of our season, right? 1237 01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:18,520 But again, that game was incredibly frustrating and I'm 1238 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,600 sure for the seniors, those dudes would have been just 1239 01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,360 heartbroken. I don't know if the kick was 1240 01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,320 good though. I don't know. 1241 01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,160 I mean it it it just. Like it has been. 1242 01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,640 Called into question of it by a couple of people who are on the 1243 01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,560 field. It it looked good from the 1244 01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,720 stands, I'll say that. But well, let's get to your last 1245 01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,520 season in an IU uniform. That 2016 season, that was a 1246 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,320 weird year for a variety of reasons. 1247 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:44,880 Obviously, you know, it felt like you kind of seemed and this 1248 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,520 was just observing from outside. It looked like you felt like 1249 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:51,680 you, you know, we're going to have a shot at the starting job. 1250 01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,680 And then they announced they're bringing in a junior college 1251 01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,400 transfer. And then the season kind of was 1252 01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,400 very up and down, not as much so as the previous year. 1253 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,280 And then obviously Wilson gets fired kind of out of the blue at 1254 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,640 the end of the season. I mean, what was that, that the 1255 01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,920 whole experience, like all the way through that ending bowl 1256 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:10,640 game where you threw a touchdown pass? 1257 01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,720 I mean what what was like? Give us the give us the 1258 01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,680 impressions of that. Well, I I'll say this, like just 1259 01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:20,960 going into that season, I had to really kind of mentally change 1260 01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:27,920 because I was at a point with these coaches where I was every, 1261 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,240 first of all, every single time I stepped foot in that building, 1262 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:36,600 I was full of anxiety because I knew I was going to get 1263 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:44,880 belittled about my weight and I was doing everything I could to 1264 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,040 gain weight. So it's not like I was fucking 1265 01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,720 off and then getting punished for my weight. 1266 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,880 It's like, dude, I'm squatting 400 lbs. 1267 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,400 I'm the number one squatter in the quarterback room. 1268 01:07:55,680 --> 01:08:01,760 I weigh 165 lbs. I'm benching 295 at 165 lbs. 1269 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,120 I can't put any more on my frame. 1270 01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,080 That's just how I was built. Sorry. 1271 01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:11,400 Also, I'm playing incredible football in practice. 1272 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,920 I'm talking about the whole team sees it. 1273 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,960 The whole team knows it. I was playing that way my 1274 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:20,000 sophomore year, even fall camp. Going into that sophomore 1275 01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,040 season, they at the end of the at the each week in camp and at 1276 01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,439 the end of camp, they're showing us all of our numbers, the 1277 01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,760 quarterbacks, my numbers were almost identical to studies. 1278 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:31,720 I think he threw a couple more touchdowns. 1279 01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:40,319 I ran a couple more touchdowns. And so I I I just had to go 1280 01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:46,160 through this like Monk kind of moment with myself and it it 1281 01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,920 took me several months and I was kind of like diving into 1282 01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,680 everything sort of self self help because I was so miserable 1283 01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:57,720 because I could not stand being around Wilson and John's any 1284 01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,160 longer. And I was like, I'm gonna 1285 01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,520 transfer. I'm gonna go fucking play at 1286 01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,479 Hawaii and I'm gonna go ball out and I'm gonna go be the king of 1287 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,240 the Mountain West or something. You know, like like this is, 1288 01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:09,640 these are the things I was thinking about. 1289 01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,760 And so I had this moment where I go, OK, I'm not leaving. 1290 01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:20,680 I am gonna be the best teammate that I can possibly be. 1291 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,960 I'm gonna be the biggest leader on the team, whether it means 1292 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,960 I'm on the field or not. And I'm committing to that. 1293 01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,479 If I never touch this field my junior season, 'cause I knew 1294 01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:33,120 already in my head it was gonna be my last. 1295 01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,279 If I don't touch the field, I will not feel one drop of 1296 01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:44,359 resentment, anger, whatever. And I really got there like 1297 01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:46,800 truly, and it's one thing to say it for me. 1298 01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:53,040 I actually, it was in my heart. And so there's another moment 1299 01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,640 that I have with him where we're basically in his office and he 1300 01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,880 basically he just point, Blake says to me, he goes, I just 1301 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,440 can't picture my quarterback. I can't picture our team going 1302 01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:07,120 out there every week with a quarterback that's 100 and 65770 1303 01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,440 lbs. He just explicitly says it. 1304 01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:11,840 I don't care how good you are. I don't care your stats. 1305 01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,480 I don't care about anything. That just doesn't work in my 1306 01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:19,160 mind's eye. And I shook his hand. 1307 01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:23,800 I said, OK, totally understand. So that's when I kind of get to 1308 01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,720 this, this new sort of mindset that I'm going to have where I'm 1309 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:31,120 like, be prepared to not touch the field, show out every day in 1310 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:33,120 practice, be the best teammate you can be. 1311 01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:38,960 They bring in Richard Legault. First of all, Richard is a great 1312 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:44,600 man, nicest guy. I had a great relationship with 1313 01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:50,240 him, really like him a lot. But my feeling was that I was 1314 01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,040 better than Richard. So that was just like as an 1315 01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,120 athlete. But I love Richard and he is, he 1316 01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,360 is very good quarterback and football player. 1317 01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:03,120 I'm also just confident in any, any athlete that doesn't believe 1318 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:04,720 that you shouldn't, you probably shouldn't play. 1319 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:10,320 And so they bring in Richard, they start prepping him. 1320 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,200 I'm recovering from surgery. I'm getting big. 1321 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,400 I I get, I get up to like 100 and 69170 lbs, which is the 1322 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,400 biggest that I ever got to. I couldn't even hold that weight 1323 01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:23,160 in the football season and we go into that season and they name 1324 01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:29,480 Richard the starter and I'm like, OK, like like this. 1325 01:11:29,480 --> 01:11:31,960 This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but whatever. 1326 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,160 And again, Richard was playing very well in fall ball. 1327 01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,240 It's not like he did anything bad or wrong or anything. 1328 01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,520 It's just to me, it was like this guy's. 1329 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,160 I've played how many games here now I've been in the biggest 1330 01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:42,800 moments. I've been in the worst moments. 1331 01:11:43,480 --> 01:11:47,880 I was without a doubt the offensive captain of the team, 1332 01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:54,760 along with maybe Mitchell Page, and I wasn't allowed to be the 1333 01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:59,360 captain because they did not want the backup being the 1334 01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,520 captain. Richard gets the starting spot 1335 01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,520 and I go, cool, I'm going to be, I'm going to, I'm going to 1336 01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,920 elevate to the role of an assistant coach. 1337 01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:08,280 That's what I'm thinking in my head. 1338 01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,320 I'm going to coach Lego. I'm going to help him in every 1339 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,040 way I can. I'm going to defend him. 1340 01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,440 I'm going to be in every offensive meeting room and I'm 1341 01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:18,640 going to help. If I can help point out one 1342 01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:20,040 little thing I see on film, great. 1343 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,880 So we get into that season. I don't remember how we start. 1344 01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,320 I think we had a couple wins and then we start losing some games 1345 01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:28,480 that we probably should have won. 1346 01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:32,160 We start losing some of those games and they start coming down 1347 01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:36,120 on Lego. First of all, the offensive play 1348 01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,440 calling was not good at that good that season. 1349 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:40,800 We were calling shit that we didn't. 1350 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,000 That wasn't our bread and butter. 1351 01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,040 Like you have your foundational 40 plays that you run all fall 1352 01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,040 camp. All of those disappeared the 1353 01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:54,200 whole first half of that season. So we call I call with Mitchell 1354 01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,160 Page we call an offensive meeting and we basically say 1355 01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,280 like look we need to turn this around and we bring the coaches 1356 01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,880 in and we're like we need to start calling our shit. 1357 01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,040 We're not calling our plays. We're not doing the stuff we did 1358 01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,320 all pre season. Like what you guys are putting 1359 01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:13,800 in 50 new plays every week and so and and they start trying to 1360 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,280 come down on Richard and Wilson made some comment in front of 1361 01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,680 the offense that like Richard was soft or something like that 1362 01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:22,320 which he was not at all. That was not his shortcoming and 1363 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:28,440 I just I get up and I defend him in front of the offense And so 1364 01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:31,760 it was this weird situation where I was really the 1365 01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:36,240 quarterback voice of the offense but Richard was the starter and 1366 01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,320 with that being said I am balling out in practice every 1367 01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,280 week. Balling out every week. 1368 01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,760 We go to play Nebraska we had just lost I think to Wake Forest 1369 01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:47,800 maybe there was a game in between. 1370 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,840 You can jog my memory but we lose to Wake Forest should have 1371 01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,880 won and I'm just thinking fucking put me in dude, please 1372 01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:58,160 put me in. We go to Nebraska or Nebraska 1373 01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:02,280 comes to us and that week we're running Tommy Arnold's offense 1374 01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:04,920 where he's this running quarterback. 1375 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,640 There's a lot of rollouts, option reads, all this stuff. 1376 01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,920 So they go, Xander, you're going to run the scout offense because 1377 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,880 we need a good look for Tommy Arnold. 1378 01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:18,840 I am obliterating our defense with the scout offense. 1379 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,200 I'm playing the best football I've ever played in my life on 1380 01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:25,360 the scout team practice field as Tommy Arnold, and I'm running an 1381 01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:30,760 offense that fits me and my skill set and literally I am 1382 01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:34,880 like yelling in practice. I was very vocal in practice. 1383 01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,640 I don't know if you guys were ever there, but I'm like making 1384 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,640 a statement like you, I I My mindset was you're gonna have to 1385 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,160 play me. Did we play Michigan State 1386 01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:47,720 before that game? Yeah, the Michigan, Michigan 1387 01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,440 State and Ohio State were both before that. 1388 01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:51,480 Let me, let me let me touch on the Michigan State game first 1389 01:14:51,480 --> 01:14:54,080 and then I'll get back to Nebraska because this is the 1390 01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:55,200 best moment in my football career. 1391 01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,600 Honest to God, we're going into the Michigan State game. 1392 01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,960 And again I, I, I have this sort of mindset of I'm going to, I'm 1393 01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:03,800 going to just help whatever it is. 1394 01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,480 And and by the way the coaching staff at this point, Wilson 1395 01:15:07,480 --> 01:15:10,040 Johns, those guys, they really respected that and they knew it 1396 01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:11,600 and they had verbalized that to me. 1397 01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,400 So we're sitting there watching film and all week I see the 1398 01:15:15,480 --> 01:15:17,360 outside linebackers of Michigan State. 1399 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,600 What they started doing was they started playing very wide 1400 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,000 because they wanted to neutralize the bubble, which was 1401 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,600 kind of was kind of the bread and butter of most spread 1402 01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,240 offenses at the time. It was kind of how we got the 1403 01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,000 ball moving. So I noticed that the 1404 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,760 linebackers are playing really wide and they're jumping the 1405 01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:34,560 bubble. The second they see the running, 1406 01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:36,760 the the receiver, the slot receiver go to the bubble. 1407 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,360 They're just jumping on it. And I'm seeing this all week. 1408 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,600 And I say to Johns, I go Johns, we need to run a bubble and just 1409 01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,360 roll up the field. Just have them keep going 1410 01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:46,800 because they're taking the wrong angle. 1411 01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:48,840 They're attacking the bubble, Just roll right by him. 1412 01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,160 I'm saying this all week. Johns is laughing at me, to be 1413 01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,760 honest. He's like, dude, like, OK, we'll 1414 01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,640 put in your little play, Xander, like your little bubble, like 1415 01:15:57,920 --> 01:15:59,840 and and like he would come into the meeting and be like, hey 1416 01:15:59,960 --> 01:16:02,400 guys, Xander's little bubble. Like, are we going to do it this 1417 01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,160 week? Like like kind of making jokes 1418 01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:06,520 and shit. I get in front of Wilson in one 1419 01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,160 of our full offensive meetings where it's just the coaches and 1420 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,600 I'm in the room and Richard's in the room. 1421 01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:16,240 And I point this out to Wilson and he's like, Yup, draw that 1422 01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,880 up. So we get into the game against 1423 01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:21,920 Michigan State. I can't remember if it's third 1424 01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,440 down. I think it's third down and we 1425 01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,320 need to get a score or we're we're scoring to get ahead. 1426 01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,120 I don't remember the exact situation and I'm standing 1427 01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:28,240 there. I'm next to Wilson and I'm on 1428 01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,360 the sideline and I'm waiting to see what his call is and and I'm 1429 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,000 thinking the whole game, dude, this is there. 1430 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:34,800 It's there. I'm seeing them jump our 1431 01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,040 bubbles. Wilson's on the headset and he 1432 01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:45,320 goes, fuck it, call Xander's bubble play and and I'm like, 1433 01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,320 I'm just standing there like trying to look confident in this 1434 01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:49,640 play. But I'm like now it's going to 1435 01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,360 you know, like the chickens are coming home to roost here like 1436 01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,240 better fucking work or I'm going back to the to the doghouse. 1437 01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:00,800 They call the play. I think it's Mitchell Page runs 1438 01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,680 the bubble goes down the sideline. 1439 01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:04,600 Richard hits him perfect. We score a touchdown. 1440 01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,160 That is the number one better than the 80 yard run against 1441 01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:12,000 Ohio State. It's the best moment of my 1442 01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,640 college football career because for me it was. 1443 01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:24,880 It was the change in mindset I had to get for myself coming 1444 01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:31,600 into actuality and helping the team win a game that was huge 1445 01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,400 for the program. Well, against Michigan State, 1446 01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,960 you should now have a picture with the cigar in the spittoon. 1447 01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:43,480 I know, yeah, exactly. And so that that moment was like 1448 01:17:43,480 --> 01:17:44,880 the best moment of my football career. 1449 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,320 And and actually to Wilson's credit, he said in the press 1450 01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,200 conference, he goes, that was Xander's play and I was like, 1451 01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:52,480 hell yeah, dude, that was awesome, 'cause that's not, 1452 01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:54,520 that's not like him to do. But again there was a bit of a 1453 01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,760 shift with our relationship at that point and so so anyway, 1454 01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,640 back to Nebraska. They're coming home. 1455 01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,320 This moment had just happened with Michigan State and I'm 1456 01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:08,640 playing lights out in practice. So Wilson one day he he's 1457 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,440 walking down the field. He's in a good mood today. 1458 01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:13,600 Great. He goes, he goes, Xander, go to 1459 01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:17,240 running back, run a swing, Richard, snap the ball, throw 1460 01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,920 Xander the ball, Xander, catch it, throw it, Xander, go run a 1461 01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,040 little flat, go here, hand it off to Xander. 1462 01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:26,760 He starts just coming up with this whole thing in his head, 1463 01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,400 this whole like, offensive package, 'cause they had just 1464 01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:33,120 realized after watching me for a week, absolutely demoralize our 1465 01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:35,040 ones. He goes, we have to put him on 1466 01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,080 the field. Have to We're gonna fucking lose 1467 01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:41,840 if we don't. So Nebraska week, we don't even 1468 01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,760 unveil that stuff. We I just go do my option read 1469 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,560 thing and the moment I get in the game everything changes. 1470 01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:52,320 The whole crowd goes crazy, the energy of the offense. 1471 01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:53,960 All of a sudden we start moving the ball. 1472 01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:58,400 I throw a deep post to Cami on Patrick and just the vibe, the 1473 01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:00,360 energy shifts, They pull me out of the game. 1474 01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:05,680 We go back to going to sleep and we end up losing that game. 1475 01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:12,040 But they got a taste and they're like, OK, this changes the 1476 01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:16,640 tempo, this switches up the vibe, this like this, this can 1477 01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,160 help us win. And Wilson was very good at 1478 01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:23,000 noticing those things. So the next week he pulls in the 1479 01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:32,440 tee and we start this this weird package for him and I and 1480 01:19:32,440 --> 01:19:34,160 talking about incredible athletes. 1481 01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:41,920 That dude is 280 lbs, can run like a running back, is light on 1482 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:46,520 his feet, like a point guard, can catch and hand off a ball 1483 01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,720 better than 95% of quarterbacks and can throw the ball. 1484 01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:54,320 He is an absolute freak. The fact that the next staff 1485 01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,920 could not find a way to use him is embarrassing. 1486 01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:03,520 And so we do this package. We play Maryland. 1487 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,760 I think that first game we, I think we set a record for like 1488 01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:10,760 most rushing yards in a Big 10 game or in an IU game in the Big 1489 01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:11,840 10. Or set something, some 1490 01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,560 significant record. And the whole team goes off and 1491 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:16,920 we smash the shit out of Maryland like we should. 1492 01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:19,040 And we should have done the same thing to Wake Forest and we 1493 01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:20,920 probably should have had a seven or eight win season. 1494 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:23,920 And that package goes on to get used. 1495 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:29,840 We get to Utah or or we get to the Purdue game, Everyone 1496 01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,600 already kind of. We're hearing some stuff from 1497 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:32,920 the administration. Wilson's out. 1498 01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,840 It's kind of this. You kind of can tell in his 1499 01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:39,040 temperament, he's looking at this like his funeral. 1500 01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:42,080 It's like the last hurrah all of a sudden he's like lovey dovey 1501 01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,960 and like crying and shit in all of our meetings and you know, 1502 01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:46,600 which was honestly nice to see, but. 1503 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,120 And all of a sudden in that game, it's almost like Wilson 1504 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:59,360 has some awakening with me and he's like, this is my guy. 1505 01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,760 I love Xander. He's been fighting his ass off 1506 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:06,240 for three years and all I've ever done is shit on him. 1507 01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:10,240 And he has this whole, like, vibe shift towards me, which was 1508 01:21:10,440 --> 01:21:13,320 honestly a beautiful thing and a great way to cap the season. 1509 01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,720 But again, everything I had just been through with this dude, 1510 01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,560 like to some degree you just, I I forgive. 1511 01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:21,240 But like, you don't. It's hard to forget some of 1512 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:23,560 those memories. I mean, it's hard for my parents 1513 01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:25,120 to forget some of those memories, you know? 1514 01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:31,200 And so so anyway, we have this Purdue game I play a lot of the 1515 01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,360 snaps, have some very big moments, some huge first downs, 1516 01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:39,200 some I, I, I go off do my thing, I pull the ball on the last play 1517 01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:43,000 I was not supposed to to score. The touchdown Wilson grabs me 1518 01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,720 and I'm thinking I'm about to get motherfucked and he goes 1519 01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:52,640 great fucking play. And I'm like, I'm like, fuck 1520 01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,760 yeah dude, you're two years too late. 1521 01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:56,720 But this should have been your mindset. 1522 01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:01,200 Like this is what I do, you know, this is what I do. 1523 01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,720 I do this in practice. And if you think that I do some 1524 01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,920 some wild shit in the games that you guys have seen, you, you 1525 01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:08,240 haven't even seen me in practice. 1526 01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:12,520 When I'm when I'm like when I'm actually in my element and I'm 1527 01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:17,040 fully comfortable and in my flow, dude, I would run around 1528 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,240 like a madman and make crazy wild plays. 1529 01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,200 And so you know, we have this moment. 1530 01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,720 And by the way, again, me and Richard have this awesome 1531 01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,280 relationship that whole season, even with me getting subbed in. 1532 01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:30,920 Richard wanted that to happen because he wanted some pressure 1533 01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:32,840 off of him and he knew that it would help us win. 1534 01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,400 And he was a great dude and we loved each other and we had a 1535 01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:39,480 great relationship as a one and two shifting quarterback room. 1536 01:22:39,480 --> 01:22:40,920 It was awesome. Awesome. 1537 01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,880 All I could have asked for. Wilson gets fired. 1538 01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,160 I'm like, dude, I'm not first of all. 1539 01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:49,640 So I would take some hits in practice that I wasn't. 1540 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:56,560 I shouldn't have taken and I start getting to a point where I 1541 01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,160 start and everyone knows I wouldn't really shy away from 1542 01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:00,560 hits. I wasn't really the type to step 1543 01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:05,000 out of bounds and I start taking some hits where I'm like, I 1544 01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:08,360 don't feel great, like I just don't feel right. 1545 01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:10,760 I'm not saying I'm walking around like not knowing where I 1546 01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:18,280 am or anything like that, but I just feel a little nauseous and 1547 01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:22,040 that's not good. And it would happen on hits that 1548 01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:26,600 were not that big. And so I'm like, I'm not going 1549 01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:29,520 to the NFL, Wilson's getting fired. 1550 01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,800 I'm not going to stand around next season and get smoked all 1551 01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,440 year. This is just not smart. 1552 01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,400 And so that's kind of what leads to me, that game, saying I'm 1553 01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:43,000 done and Wilson's out. And you know what I did? 1554 01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:45,920 I checked all my boxes, dude. Like I did everything I wanted 1555 01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:48,560 to do or I could do at that point. 1556 01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:52,560 And so we go into the Utah game. Tom Allen's the head coach. 1557 01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:54,680 Let me first say I love Tom Allen. 1558 01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:56,080 He's a great man. Great guy. 1559 01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,720 I never had some like, super close relationship with him. 1560 01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:02,680 I I never had any reason to. If anything, I was the guy 1561 01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:06,240 running around fucking with his defense all year in practice and 1562 01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,560 like taught me a bunch of shit and starting fights and you 1563 01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,720 know, whatever. And so but. 1564 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,160 And I, and again Tom is also another guy. 1565 01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:16,560 Midwest dude. Very conservative. 1566 01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,600 You know, I I'm just not really their kind of guy. 1567 01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:27,440 And so we go into this bowl game and we start practicing and our 1568 01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:30,640 our packages that got us to a bowl game where I'm in there and 1569 01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:36,520 T's in there and they're gone and I'm like, oh, OK, so we're 1570 01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:37,800 going to go fucking lose this game. 1571 01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:39,680 Like like, what are you guys doing? 1572 01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:43,200 This is what got us here. Like, this is just stupid. 1573 01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:44,880 I'm still balling out in practice. 1574 01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:47,240 I'm not verbalizing this or being negative or anything like 1575 01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:52,480 that, but I'm like, this is seems foolish. 1576 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,320 What are we doing here? We go out to that Utah game, we 1577 01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:57,600 start warming up. I'm. 1578 01:24:57,960 --> 01:24:59,840 I feel the most confident I've ever felt. 1579 01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:02,160 I know this is the last time I'm ever going to play real football 1580 01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:07,360 again in my life and we start the game. 1581 01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,160 I'm not getting in the game. I'm pretty frustrated. 1582 01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,480 We're playing well. Hanging there with Utah, by the 1583 01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:15,120 way, the Utah quarterback, I'm blanking out his name, Troy 1584 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:17,440 something. He was an LA City Player of the 1585 01:25:17,440 --> 01:25:18,880 year. I was an LA City Player of the 1586 01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:20,360 year. I used to watch this dude when I 1587 01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:22,600 was a freshman, sophomore and look up to him and I was like, 1588 01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:25,840 I'm going to be him. So this was like, I wanted to 1589 01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:30,960 play against this guy. Finally, we're not getting any 1590 01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:32,960 movement. They put me in on an option 1591 01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,720 read. The moment they put me in the 1592 01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:39,200 game, Utah shifts to cover one man free. 1593 01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,560 They're playing one high safety. They are playing low man 1594 01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:45,200 coverage on our receivers and they're loading the box. 1595 01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:47,480 We know what they're going to do. 1596 01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,840 OK, option read, option read. We go deep. 1597 01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,600 I throw a touchdown, do the McGregor walk, we go in for 1598 01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,960 halftime and I'm thinking, OK, put me back in, let's keep 1599 01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:01,840 going. They don't say anything. 1600 01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:03,640 No. Hey, Xander, this is what we're 1601 01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:05,440 going to do. No, nothing. 1602 01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:10,080 I never touched the field again after that game. 1603 01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:11,120 I am now. I'm mad. 1604 01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:15,520 I'm like dude, everything I did this season, the way I 1605 01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:21,040 contributed, the guys who played deserve to win that game and we 1606 01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:24,520 could have won that game. So I put on Twitter, you know, 1607 01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,360 offensive play calling cost us the game and it goes viral and 1608 01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:29,160 everyone starts talking and they make me delete it. 1609 01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,480 And the only reason I delete it is because Fred Glass asked me 1610 01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:34,400 to delete it And I loved Fred and he was amazing to me and he 1611 01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,680 was an incredible AD, great man. That's the only reason I did. 1612 01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:41,600 But then I see in the interviews after Coach, I think it was 1613 01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:42,880 Coach Allen. It might have been John's, but I 1614 01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:45,200 think it was Allen. He goes, someone asked why 1615 01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,720 didn't you keep playing Vander like 3 plays in scores, a 1616 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:49,960 touchdown. What's going on? 1617 01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:54,480 Well, they played cover one. They loaded the box, and so it 1618 01:26:54,480 --> 01:26:57,080 neutralized his run game or something like that. 1619 01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,320 Wait, wait, wait. You're telling me that when you 1620 01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,920 put Xander in the game, you know exactly what the defense is 1621 01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,280 going to do. They're going to play cover one 1622 01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:13,640 man free and man up all your receivers throw the ball. 1623 01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:17,440 What? What more can you ask for than 1624 01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:20,400 knowing exactly what the defense is going to do? 1625 01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,640 Again, it's Allen's first game as a head coach. 1626 01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:26,600 We're in a transition. Like, I forgive him. 1627 01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,360 I'm not mad. I don't like whatever I I text. 1628 01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:31,680 I used to text him after games and stuff like that. 1629 01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:35,840 So it it but for me, it was incredibly frustrating and I 1630 01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:37,560 would have just preferred to win that game. 1631 01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,280 But you know it is what it is and that's that's kind of the 1632 01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:42,480 story of my career. It's like these really weird 1633 01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:48,920 highs and lows and kind of that folklore thing is what it was. 1634 01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:50,800 And I'm very grateful that's what it was, because most guys 1635 01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:55,760 never get on the field so. Obviously after you leave IU, 1636 01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:59,160 they have a couple of seasons that kind of, you know, didn't 1637 01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:02,120 quite get to the level that they needed to five and seven, five 1638 01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:03,760 and seven. And they have those two awesome 1639 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:08,480 years in 2019 and then 2020. And then the bottom falls out 1640 01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,440 the last three seasons, from your perspective as an alum, as 1641 01:28:12,440 --> 01:28:16,080 someone who's clearly kept tabs on the program and watched from 1642 01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:19,760 afar, what happened This, this, this. 1643 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:22,680 I mean, in 2020, I don't think anybody was predicting that we 1644 01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:24,720 would be talking about a new coach today. 1645 01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:27,280 Yeah, I mean, well, let let me just say this. 1646 01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:30,440 Like, yes, I keep tabs and those first couple seasons I watched a 1647 01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:33,360 lot. But I'm, I'm actually not like a 1648 01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,240 football geek. Like, I don't like track stats 1649 01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,000 and like watch every game and like, park my ass on the couch 1650 01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:42,800 all day on Saturday and Sunday. Like, to be just honest, that's 1651 01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:46,480 never been me. I'm a player and so I'm not the 1652 01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:52,720 best voice. I saw coach Allen take a very 1653 01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:55,880 opposite approach to Wilson with Elio love each other, which I 1654 01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:58,080 loved. And I'm like, dude, that's we 1655 01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:05,360 needed an element of that. I think, you know, I I don't 1656 01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:07,920 know exactly what happened at the the five and seven years. 1657 01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:09,960 I look at those years and I go, OK, like we didn't have that 1658 01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,920 much talent. You're kind of bringing in new 1659 01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:15,360 guys. You've got the old Wilson team 1660 01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:17,760 and kind of the the lesser end of the Wilson era. 1661 01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:21,160 To be totally honest, even my junior year, we were not the 1662 01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:24,240 team we were my sophomore year, like not even close. 1663 01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,960 And so you're kind of transitioning out of that. 1664 01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:32,240 And then you have the those seasons with Michael Phoenix. 1665 01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:36,120 And I saw those years and I was like, dude, they've got some 1666 01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:38,920 guys and this guy Phoenix. And I would, I would sit with 1667 01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:41,080 some friends and they'd watch him and they'd be like, he's not 1668 01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:42,480 that good. He kind of throws the ball up, 1669 01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:43,920 whatever. And I'm like, dude, this guy's 1670 01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:45,560 NFL caliber. You don't know what you're 1671 01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:47,760 talking about. So I don't know what happened in 1672 01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:50,640 losing him. I understand the injury part and 1673 01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:52,200 being like, OK, this guy gets injured every year. 1674 01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:54,480 We have to just like, put our eggs in a different basket, 1675 01:29:54,480 --> 01:29:57,960 totally get that. I wasn't part of the program and 1676 01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:01,640 I wasn't there those years. But to me, other than the fact 1677 01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:05,880 of like having Michael Phoenix and what was the receiver #3, 1678 01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:10,240 I'm blanking. Oh yeah. 1679 01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:11,320 Fry mobile. Sorry. 1680 01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,520 Yeah, yeah, yeah. My I only had half my coffee 1681 01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,480 this morning. It's getting old, man. 1682 01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:19,440 It's just that's part of that's part of being out of college 1683 01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:20,200 and. Getting older. 1684 01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:22,800 You know what? I I I feel like I graduated 2 1685 01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,040 years ago. Every year it's the weirdest 1686 01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:26,800 thing ever. But then I think about it and 1687 01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:29,080 I'm like, wait, there's been like 7 football seasons since, 1688 01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:34,560 so it's weird. But But anyway, other than maybe 1689 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:39,440 that year I just looked at the team from the lens of a like the 1690 01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:43,680 television and I just didn't see the kind of talent, the kind of 1691 01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:50,960 size the kind of freaks that that 2015 Sud Sudi era a little 1692 01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:56,560 bit my era had and the size didn't look like it was quite as 1693 01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:58,680 there. I mean in 2015 when we went out 1694 01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,600 against Ohio State, I'm not kidding you, we were bigger than 1695 01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,840 them. Like when we stepped on the 1696 01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:06,240 field there's always that moment where you're like you have that 1697 01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:08,560 like size up moment in the 1st 20 minutes of warm up where 1698 01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:09,760 you're like how fucking big is that guy? 1699 01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,320 I'm lined up against the you know what I mean And every game 1700 01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:15,600 that year we would come out there and be like we're going to 1701 01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:19,080 fucking smash these guys. We've got Jordan Howard. 1702 01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:21,640 Jason Spriggs is bigger than any of their lineman. 1703 01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:24,840 We, Mark Hill, ran a tight strength program. 1704 01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,800 We were fit, dude. We were like, I felt like a Navy 1705 01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:29,040 SEAL. I'm not kidding you. 1706 01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:32,360 Like I could say no, warm up. I'm going to go run a marathon 1707 01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:33,560 right now. I'm going to be fine. 1708 01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:40,040 Like, we were killers. Our workouts were brutal and we 1709 01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:44,040 were strong as shit and we did heavy compound lifts. 1710 01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,960 None of this bullshit like bands and whatever. 1711 01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:53,160 That stuff's good, but like, we were strong, explosive and big 1712 01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:58,680 and we had talent. And I just didn't see nearly as 1713 01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:04,000 much of that in the Allen era. And I think that the draft picks 1714 01:32:04,440 --> 01:32:07,880 kind of speak to that. I, I, and maybe I haven't been 1715 01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,480 tracking, but I just don't see many of those guys that have 1716 01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:14,160 carried off carried on into the NFLI would actually bet that 1717 01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,200 there's more guys in the NFL right now today from the Wilson 1718 01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,640 era than the Allen era. To me that that's just what I 1719 01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:23,200 saw where I'm like there, there just doesn't really look like 1720 01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:25,840 there's many NFL guys on the field and this is the Indiana 1721 01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:29,600 problem of old. You have to have four of those 1722 01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:31,480 guys on every team. Go ahead. 1723 01:32:31,480 --> 01:32:33,720 Sorry. I was just gonna say, you know 1724 01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:34,880 you talked about the recruiting side. 1725 01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:37,680 I'm just curious on the the post and you know somebody who 1726 01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:40,360 played, I don't want to say folklore, but like you you had 1727 01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:42,800 an oversized role there at the end of the Wilson era. 1728 01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:47,480 How much connection do you have with with the program with IU? 1729 01:32:47,480 --> 01:32:49,520 Like are you called back to be like hey, we want we want you to 1730 01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,320 come back and you know honor this, Honor that. 1731 01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:53,560 Like, I'm just how much that happens. 1732 01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:58,920 I've had almost none. When I when the Allen team got 1733 01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:05,200 hired, I I remember walking up into the like the administration 1734 01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:06,800 level of the stadium where all the coaches in the 1735 01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:10,520 administration are. And I go to walk into the film 1736 01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:13,600 room like gonna DAP up some of the coaches and say what's up to 1737 01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,080 Tom and whatever. And the new running back coach, 1738 01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:17,880 I think he played running back at Michigan or something like 1739 01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:22,640 that. He closes the door on me and I'm 1740 01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:24,080 like, bitch, do you know who I am? 1741 01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:28,760 Really been here for a week and I'm like and I but it. 1742 01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:33,680 But it was this immediate realization of, dude, it's next 1743 01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:35,640 man up. This is college football. 1744 01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:37,440 They don't give a shit about you anymore. 1745 01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:40,200 They're on to the next era. These guys all have kids. 1746 01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:44,080 They've got salaries. Jeremy Gray reached out to me 1747 01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:47,840 because of all this recent Twitter stuff and he he was 1748 01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:49,320 like, dude, like, let's get involved. 1749 01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:51,480 Like, you know, send me an e-mail. 1750 01:33:51,480 --> 01:33:53,920 Let's talk. I would love to do that. 1751 01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,680 Oh, hey man, we're we're coming to LA. 1752 01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,800 This, I mean, I use playing at, you know at UCLA this year. 1753 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:00,960 You're in that area. Like you, you should be hosting 1754 01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:03,120 a pregame. I would love to. 1755 01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:04,480 I would love to speak to the team. 1756 01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,720 I would love to do something what, in whatever capacity I 1757 01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:10,160 can. I would love to help and be 1758 01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:12,720 involved. I'd love to meet the new coach. 1759 01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:15,720 And you know, I mean even something funny like the 1760 01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,720 uniforms. Like they really should have 1761 01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:23,360 someone part of that conversation that is not 70 1762 01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:29,080 years old and in a suit like it. It should like get somebody who 1763 01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:32,400 understands the ethos of Indiana, what this should 1764 01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:36,200 represent, how we should look with the right perspective on it 1765 01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:38,960 to be part of the conversation. I'm not saying hand me the keys, 1766 01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:42,520 but I would love to be part of that. 1767 01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:45,040 I'd love to be part of again. Anything that they go, hey 1768 01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:46,560 Xander, you can come and help with this. 1769 01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:47,520 Cool. I'll do it. 1770 01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:51,680 So hopefully somebody watches this and and you know I can I 1771 01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:53,400 can help in some way. Well, let's wrap. 1772 01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:54,920 Let's wrap up. With this because we've gone a 1773 01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:58,040 little over time, but I'm curious like from your and 1774 01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:01,360 obviously not being a football geek as you said, but caring 1775 01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:05,520 about the brand of IU football and you started this whole thing 1776 01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:08,280 off by talking about how much of A non entity Indiana was 1777 01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:11,800 nationally. Like what do you see Indiana as 1778 01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:14,720 needing to do now that they have a new coach, they have some 1779 01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:16,960 buzz. It feels like not just in terms 1780 01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:21,480 of of the hire but there's nil money that's that's increased 1781 01:35:21,480 --> 01:35:23,120 significantly over the last month. 1782 01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,920 What would your suggestions be, knowing what you know about 1783 01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:32,720 marketing and what makes football programs interesting 1784 01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:35,640 and intriguing to high school prospects and recruits? 1785 01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:39,200 The type of freaks that you need to to get in and really play at 1786 01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:41,320 a top level? Like, what can Indiana do to try 1787 01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,880 to change their their fortunes here, 'cause it's clearly that 1788 01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,320 they've gone off track here the last few years with that. 1789 01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:51,040 Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, when it comes to the hire, 1790 01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:54,720 I think again, I don't know a ton about Cignetti and he, from 1791 01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:58,200 what I just have read quickly in his track record, he seems to be 1792 01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:00,520 a winner, he seems to be legit, he seems to be awesome. 1793 01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:03,480 So I think ultimately great hire. 1794 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:09,880 My first perspective when Tom was leaving and we were knowing 1795 01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:14,160 that we're going to need a head coach was go get a name brand, 1796 01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:18,320 go get a household name. I don't care if it costs $25 1797 01:36:18,320 --> 01:36:21,800 million to get Urban Meyer, go do it. 1798 01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:25,640 The whole landscape of college football is shifting. 1799 01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:27,320 This is now a different world we're in. 1800 01:36:27,440 --> 01:36:30,000 This is professional football. Everyone's getting paid. 1801 01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:32,240 If you don't pay, you're not going to play. 1802 01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:36,840 And so to me, if I was sitting here with the keys to the car 1803 01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:41,120 and I was the ADI, that's what I probably would have done. 1804 01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:45,320 I would have made some disgusting offer to make someone 1805 01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:47,680 the most highest paid college football coach ever. 1806 01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:51,600 And then I would have said we're going to spend more on more 1807 01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:53,680 money on this football program than ever. 1808 01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:57,640 Like because again, it is a completely different environment 1809 01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:00,400 than it was when I played and I watched my little brother go 1810 01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:02,560 through this at Duke. It's just different. 1811 01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:06,240 If you don't spend, you're just gonna be irrelevant. 1812 01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:08,720 Why? If you're sitting on this multi 1813 01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:14,560 billion dollar university, which is essentially a corporation, so 1814 01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:18,440 you're a corporation with billions of dollars, what is the 1815 01:37:18,440 --> 01:37:21,080 difference between 10 million and 20 million? 1816 01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:28,640 Like, these are the kinds of things where until Indiana just 1817 01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:33,480 decides we are gonna dump money into this until it works. 1818 01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:39,360 Like just do it. If if you get it to work, if you 1819 01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:43,720 can have an era of a coach who gets this to become a nine when 1820 01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:45,240 you don't have to become Ohio State. 1821 01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:53,040 But if you can become Nebraska, if you can become Wisconsin, if 1822 01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:57,320 you can become, you know, look at Washington State football. 1823 01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:03,280 When Mike Leach came, it kind of changed everything like that. 1824 01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:04,960 You're going to get that money back. 1825 01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:09,400 It's going to take time. But it's also just like, you 1826 01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:12,080 know, it's hard because I I don't know the inner workings of 1827 01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:14,480 how money flows within the university and all the all of 1828 01:38:14,480 --> 01:38:15,800 these things. Like there's a lot that I don't 1829 01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:18,400 understand about this and I'm sure it's very complex. 1830 01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:22,600 But to me, at the end of the day, someone needs to create a 1831 01:38:22,600 --> 01:38:25,920 vision, a strategy. There has to be money behind it 1832 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,520 and somebody has to execute it and stick to it. 1833 01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:31,400 Like, Iowa clearly has a strategy. 1834 01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:36,320 How is it that Iowa, year after year, takes three star guys? 1835 01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,280 They win nine games every year. They compete for Big 10 1836 01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:41,880 championships. Their stadium's not as nice. 1837 01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:44,240 Their university sucks compared to IU. 1838 01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:49,280 Like, how is it that they keep doing it? 1839 01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:52,280 How is it that they're retaining head coaches for 20 years? 1840 01:38:52,480 --> 01:38:56,920 There's someone in that administration with a plan and a 1841 01:38:56,920 --> 01:38:59,520 strategy and they go, this is what we're going to do. 1842 01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:01,920 This is going to be our brand. This is going to be our niche. 1843 01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:04,640 We're going to stick to it and we're going to sell everybody in 1844 01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:08,240 the organization on that vision. And I don't know if Indiana has 1845 01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:11,040 that or doesn't. I again, I'm not part of the 1846 01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:13,560 administration and I I haven't been around in a long time. 1847 01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:18,760 But hiring a coach isn't enough. Getting a few stars isn't 1848 01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,440 enough. You need to have a strategy of 1849 01:39:21,440 --> 01:39:26,200 vision, realistic expectations and tangible goals. 1850 01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:29,880 You know during the Wilson era, we knew our goal was like, let's 1851 01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:34,840 get some Bulls always beat Purdue and if we can go sneak up 1852 01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:37,120 on an Ohio State, on a Michigan on a Michigan State. 1853 01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:42,320 Being an underdog is is a great thing when we go step on the 1854 01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,160 field with Ohio State until they stopped doing this. 1855 01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:48,640 But initially their foot was just slightly off the gas pedal. 1856 01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:52,760 Like if we were in war. Do you know what you would pay 1857 01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:54,560 to have your enemy take you for granted? 1858 01:39:56,240 --> 01:40:00,600 So these are things that like, I don't know, are being positioned 1859 01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:05,080 and sold the right way. I'm not saying they aren't, but 1860 01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,840 if I was in charge that's this is the kind of perspective that 1861 01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:11,400 I would have and these are the things that I would try to do. 1862 01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:14,040 So ideally somebody is doing that. 1863 01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,160 I'm sure that they are. I mean these these people are 1864 01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:18,400 very, very smart. They've been in this business a 1865 01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:23,080 long time. But I think Kurt could could do 1866 01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:26,240 awesome and be incredible. They need to have a plan for 1867 01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:32,200 retention and be ready to keep this guy if he is that guy you 1868 01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:34,720 know and they need to have a plan to really start dumping 1869 01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:36,600 money and get ahead of this MIL stuff. 1870 01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:39,720 Who can we bring in as a as a consultant, whether it's full 1871 01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:44,040 time staff where all they do is understand the nil landscape. 1872 01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:48,400 Go hire a huge famous sports agent from back in the day and 1873 01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:50,880 say you're gonna run the nil division and you're gonna make 1874 01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:52,720 sure all these dudes are paid. Figure out what we need to pay 1875 01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:54,440 guys. What we need, what packages we 1876 01:40:54,440 --> 01:40:59,080 need to put together. Like, you know, yeah, that's 1877 01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:00,720 that's that's that's my. Perspective. 1878 01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:04,280 No, I think that's I I think that's good and I I I think it's 1879 01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:05,480 good. Perspective, I think we're both 1880 01:41:05,480 --> 01:41:09,240 kind of in agreement as you. Basically stated, I mean this, 1881 01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:12,320 this is there's the football aspects to this, but this is an 1882 01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:14,960 entire business wrapping around it. 1883 01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:18,320 And whether it's nil or whether it's marketing or just trying to 1884 01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:20,920 make the program not just relevant to be but be able to 1885 01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:24,080 compete against these other brands that are schools that are 1886 01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:26,920 doing the things that you're outlining has always been the 1887 01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:29,520 big challenge with IU football. And we know we've seen a few 1888 01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:32,160 moments in the history of the program where it has worked. 1889 01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:35,440 You know, it worked a bit in the in the late 80s and early 90s. 1890 01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:37,440 That was a good period. It worked a little bit there 1891 01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:40,560 briefly with Wilson and briefly with Allen. 1892 01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:44,800 But it always seems to recede that there's always a regression 1893 01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:47,400 and that's that's the big hope, I think with IU. 1894 01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:49,600 And it's where your idea of there, you know, there's got to 1895 01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,280 be a long term plan from the university comes in. 1896 01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:55,880 Because at this point, yeah, I was reading Rick Bozich who 1897 01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,040 writes for the Louisville Courier Journal and and he 1898 01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:00,280 brought up a great point. Like everybody's a football 1899 01:42:00,280 --> 01:42:02,880 school now. You you, you can't, you can't 1900 01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:04,480 say, oh, Indiana's a basketball school. 1901 01:42:04,480 --> 01:42:08,720 You look at the other basketball schools that are out there and 1902 01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:11,080 they've all had to figure out a way to be competitive in 1903 01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:14,080 football consistently. And and Indiana, it feels like 1904 01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:16,200 maybe turning the corner on that, but they don't really have 1905 01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:18,600 a choice at this point. Yeah, and and Louisville is 1906 01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:20,440 actually a great example of that. 1907 01:42:20,440 --> 01:42:23,080 Like what they've done with their football program. 1908 01:42:23,440 --> 01:42:25,040 Again, they're not the best team in the country. 1909 01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:27,200 You don't have to compete for national championships. 1910 01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:30,720 You just can't be the butt of every college football joke. 1911 01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:33,200 You can't be the losing his program in history. 1912 01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:35,280 Yeah, yeah, that. That hurts your brand. 1913 01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:38,480 That hurts your university. So let's make the goal to get 1914 01:42:38,480 --> 01:42:41,360 this to a place where we have a good reputation, which we did. 1915 01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:44,120 Again, to your point, during some of these eras and I think 1916 01:42:44,120 --> 01:42:45,800 during the Wilson era, we did do that. 1917 01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:49,440 But let's let's just get back to that. 1918 01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:54,040 Let's stop giving up the bucket. Let's consistently hit bowl 1919 01:42:54,040 --> 01:42:55,760 games. That's a standard. 1920 01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:58,760 That's a bottom line. It's not a a crowning 1921 01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:01,280 achievement. It's just the standard. 1922 01:43:01,440 --> 01:43:04,440 We win six games. If you have to schedule your way 1923 01:43:04,440 --> 01:43:07,120 to six wins, then fucking schedule your way to six wins. 1924 01:43:07,320 --> 01:43:11,680 But we're going to get six wins. Like start, you know just start 1925 01:43:11,680 --> 01:43:14,120 with some of these fundamental things and then those things 1926 01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:19,720 things compound and over 3451020 years you start getting 1927 01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:22,480 somewhere. So you know it's going to it's 1928 01:43:22,480 --> 01:43:23,920 going to take. There's a lot of ingredients to 1929 01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:25,400 make a successful college football program. 1930 01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:30,760 It's it is a very challenging endeavor. 1931 01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:34,480 Well, Xander, we really appreciate you taking the time 1932 01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:37,440 to to share your memories and your perspectives on things. 1933 01:43:37,440 --> 01:43:40,400 And we're, we're serious. We're both coming out for that 1934 01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:42,720 game against UCLA in the Rose Bowl in September. 1935 01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,080 So let's get something set up. You know we. 1936 01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:47,840 We'll talk offline, but let's do a let's do a meet up before that 1937 01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:49,840 UCLA game. I would love to do something. 1938 01:43:49,880 --> 01:43:50,760 Let's do it. Thank you. 1939 01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:52,080 Grab me on, guys. Appreciate it. 1940 01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:53,720 Just making the Rose Bowl there you going? 1941 01:43:55,760 --> 01:43:58,880 All right, Xander Diamont, former IU quarterback and his, 1942 01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,920 as I said, folk legend of IU football, joining us here on the 1943 01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:02,640 show. Thanks again. 1944 01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:06,320 Thanks guys. All right. 1945 01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:09,080 My thanks again to Xander Diamont for joining us on the 1946 01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:13,920 show, A tremendous discussion. We really enjoyed his candor and 1947 01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:15,360 all the interesting things he had to say. 1948 01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:19,080 And we hope that we see Xander around IU Athletics and and the 1949 01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:22,160 program more moving forward. He's certainly on Twitter. 1950 01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,960 You can go check him out on Twitter of course, and you'll 1951 01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:28,080 probably see him at some other items as well here soon. 1952 01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:31,040 So our thanks to Xander and our thanks to you folks for 1953 01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,720 listening in. We'll be back later on in the 1954 01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:36,360 week. Obviously IU men's basketball, 1955 01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:39,200 IU women's basketball, both in action and probably still some 1956 01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:41,160 stuff coming up. As far as IU football's 1957 01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:44,960 concerned, they continue to make some waves in the transfer 1958 01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:48,080 portal and you know we're already kind of we've got the 1959 01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:49,840 the second signing period coming up. 1960 01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:53,120 We got spring practice not too far down on the horizon. 1961 01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:56,160 So a lot to look forward to, a bright future hopefully for IU 1962 01:44:56,160 --> 01:44:58,400 football moving forward. We'll go ahead and wrap things 1963 01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:01,520 up now for Scott. I'm Galen, thanks for joining us 1964 01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:05,120 here on Crimson Cast. Be sure to subscribe. 1965 01:45:05,480 --> 01:45:08,800 Be sure to get on the sub stack and we'll look forward to 1966 01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:13,480 talking with you soon. Bring back the Bison, I think 1967 01:45:13,480 --> 01:45:15,760 I'm supposed to say that here. And also we'll catch you folks 1968 01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:17,560 on the flip side. Thanks again for listening. 1969 01:45:17,560 --> 01:45:18,120 So long, everybody.