1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,880 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:21,600 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Casket 3 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,880 and Clavio joining you here. Little solo action on this 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,800 Friday afternoon we finally. Finally have power back in 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,800 certain parts of Bloomington, including at at the Crimson Cast 6 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:39,040 studios down here in town. And my thoughts very much are 7 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,000 with the folks that still don't have power in Bloomington. 8 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,320 Several friends of mine still waiting to get power back. 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,560 It has been a pretty rough time over the course of the last few 10 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,640 days. For those who haven't been 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,400 paying attention or aren't aware, Bloomington got hit hard 12 00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:00,360 on Tuesday by not a tornado, but something that sure acted like 13 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,240 one. There was a measured wind gust 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,000 out at the Monroe County Airport of close to 80 miles an hour, 15 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,120 which is hurricane strength wind, and it knocked power out 16 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,600 to over 42,000 people in Bloomington itself. 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,520 And it's interesting, you know, the Bloomington, for those who 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,680 don't know, kind of has a a little bit of a sketchy power 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,080 grid in places where I live. We actually haven't lost power 20 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,760 hardly at all over the course of the time that I've lived here. 21 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,840 But there are other parts of the city that lose power pretty 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,880 regularly. And so this was an unwelcome 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,720 surprise, I think, for a lot of people who were hoping there'd 24 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,240 be a quick restoration of power. But I will say it seems like the 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,200 crews have been working as hard as they possibly can. 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,160 This was just a really, really powerful storm. 27 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,560 And even with the grid occasionally being a little bit 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,280 unpredictable down here, this was one of those events that was 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,240 probably going to knock the power out regardless. 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,800 And so we hope that power gets restored to the rest of 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,840 Bloomington here soon. There's still some stop lights 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,000 out. There's still a few businesses 33 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,919 that don't have power. And fortunately, it doesn't 34 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:16,040 appear like there were, there were any huge like, you know, 35 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,960 widespread infrastructure damages. 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,240 There were some garages damaged, some houses down on trees, 37 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,640 things of that nature. So our thoughts with everybody 38 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:27,480 in town that still doesn't have power and hopefully you're able 39 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,200 to get back up and running again soon. 40 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,800 And thank you to Duke Energy and all the crews that came from 41 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:36,960 across the United States literally to help get these 42 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,920 things cleared up. We had crews from Georgia and 43 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,040 Alabama and several other places coming in to fix things. 44 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,840 So we're going to talk. We got some questions and 45 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,720 comments from those of you out there in the audience. 46 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,240 So we're going to tackle some of those and try to send you on 47 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,520 your way into what should be a an interesting and fun weekend. 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,360 I think overall, just in terms of we got a lot of lot of soccer 49 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,280 going on across the country, IU athletics about to turn the 50 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,040 corner and head into July. Hard to believe we're already 51 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:12,040 done with June, but football getting closer and a few things 52 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,040 I guess to talk. About on the. 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,920 Basketball front as well, which we'll touch on briefly later on. 54 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,280 Before we get to all that, just a reminder that this podcast is 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,720 part of the Back Home Network and the Back Home Network is 56 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,240 brought to you by Home Field Apparel. 57 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,560 Your place to go for the finest in college fashions, the softest 58 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,600 fabrics, the coolest designs and the place to go for some really, 59 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,720 really neat apparel coming in from a variety of different 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,720 schools that maybe you wouldn't think to buy from, but that have 61 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,600 some cool or unusual logos and or mascots. 62 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,760 The sweet summer 7 coming out. And as I record this today, they 63 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,240 just released the Evergreen Geo ducks. 64 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,360 If if you don't know what a Geo duck is, go ahead and Google it. 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,080 The collection's awesome. There's a great ringer tee from 66 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,000 with almost like a it look. It looks like a very corporate 67 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,840 logo, but it's it's a very nice looking logo that just says 68 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,760 Evergreen almost looks like something out of like city 69 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,560 skylines. Some cool Geo duck based items 70 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,240 and overall just a really neat collection, particularly if 71 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,600 you're looking for green. I'm always looking for green in 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,400 college sports that is not affiliated with Michigan State 73 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,000 or Oregon, so this is a nice addition to that list. 74 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,560 So head over to Home Field apparel.com and shop the 75 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,680 Evergreen Collection, shop the UC Santa Cruz Collection and all 76 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,760 the other sweet Summer 7 apparel items that have come out here 77 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,720 over the course of this summer. Again, Home Field apparel.com. 78 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,280 Also a reminder that we are on Sub Stack. 79 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,360 You can subscribe at crimsoncast.substack.com. 80 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,440 The subscription is free if you want to get an e-mail with 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,480 podcasts delivered straight to your inbox. 82 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,440 You can also subscribe and pay a small amount of money to help 83 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,640 with the upkeep of the podcast. We always appreciate any 84 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,960 financial support you feel willing to send our way. 85 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:10,960 We try to give you a little bit extra on that front, including 86 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,280 VIP videos. I'll have one of those attached 87 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,000 to this podcast as well, which is only available to our paying 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,320 subscribers. So check that out. 89 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,160 Again, crimsoncast.substack.com. Join the over 900 people that 90 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,080 are part of the Crimson Cast Sub Stack community. 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,920 All right, let's go ahead and dive into some questions and 92 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,080 some items that are worth talking about. 93 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,240 And I'm going to start with a couple of leftover questions 94 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,480 that we had from the last time we put a call out. 95 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,360 And then also we've got some new questions that we're going to 96 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,680 filter in as well. And maybe, you know, actually, 97 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,920 first and foremost, before we get to that, I did want to talk 98 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,560 a little bit about the NIL event that happened up at the 99 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,280 Hawthorne's yesterday in Fishers that benefited IU volleyball. 100 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:00,520 This was an event that was put on by both Hoosiers Connect and 101 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,800 the volleyball program. I was up there. 102 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,760 My whole idea was I was going to go up and try to publish some 103 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,960 things on social media. Cell phone signal. 104 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,360 Not very good on the golf course, but the golf course was 105 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,600 beautiful. If you haven't been up to the 106 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,120 Hawthorns and you're a fan of the game, I would highly 107 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,560 recommend checking it out. It was a really enjoyable event. 108 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Got to meet a lot of of IU fans up there and it was a great 109 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,040 opportunity to interact with volleyball athletes and the 110 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,120 volleyball coaching staff. Coach Steve aired up there and, 111 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,120 and most of his staff out there interacting with fans. 112 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,200 Just a lot of fun, a beautiful day. 113 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,040 And, you know, it got me thinking throughout the course 114 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,280 of that event, you know, as we move forward into what are still 115 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,280 relatively uncharted waters as it relates to NIL, these are 116 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:53,040 going to be the kind of events that I think fans will enjoy and 117 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,360 that programs are going to need. You know, certainly there's 118 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:01,560 going to be a lot of emphasis necessarily placed on creating 119 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,320 and maintaining revenue streams for name, image and likeness for 120 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,080 football and men's basketball. But I think for a lot of the 121 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,320 other sports, including women's basketball, including 122 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,840 volleyball, a couple of other sports in that mix that that are 123 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,200 liable to be consistently front and center in the college 124 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,240 athletics environment, the you know, this is the kind of events 125 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,040 that you're going to need. They're not going to be 126 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,720 necessarily huge scale events, although they certainly could 127 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,600 grow into that I think with enough support behind particular 128 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,800 teams. But I think it's it's nice to be 129 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,000 able to go and interact with athletes and with coaches in 130 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,120 relatively open and low pressure environments. 131 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,360 And I think obviously not everybody plays golf, but I 132 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,360 think these sorts of events are things that can happen across 133 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,560 the board. And I think it's one of those 134 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,520 things where if you're a fan and you're interested in, you know, 135 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,240 a particular type of sport or team, I would, you know, maybe 136 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,680 start thinking a little bit about how NIL organizational 137 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,480 structure can help because where this is headed? 138 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,760 I mean, you know, we've talked a lot on this podcast about the, 139 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,080 you know, the organization of name, image and likeness 140 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,160 collectives and the fact that with this settlement, which we 141 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,640 assume is going to go through that we're, you know, and there 142 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,800 are actually are still some questions about whether this the 143 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,800 house settlement, the NCAA settlement is going to actually 144 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,080 be approved by the judge on the case. 145 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,080 There is still a chance that it isn't approved, but as these 146 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,640 things continue to develop, I, you know, to some degree, I 147 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,280 think a lot of people look at this $22 million figure and say, 148 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,720 oh, well, that solves it. That's going to be the amount of 149 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,640 money that's distributed through NIL and, and they'll find a way 150 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,640 to pay everybody through that. And that's, that's really not, I 151 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:50,920 don't think how it's going to work. 152 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,000 I think a lot of schools, lot of programs within schools, and a 153 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,680 lot of the fan bases that surround particular sports are 154 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:05,200 going to have to start thinking about how do we build our own 155 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,240 NIL resources around what we're doing. 156 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,320 Because ultimately, I don't think there's going to be enough 157 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,040 money for everybody to get everything that they need. 158 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,840 And you're always going to have situations where there are 159 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,200 certain centers of individual sports where money is much 160 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,520 easier to come by because there's an existing base of 161 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:23,800 people who are willing to donate. 162 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,000 So then the question becomes, you know, and this is not just a 163 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,160 question that's limited to say an Indiana volleyball or or 164 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,800 whatever, but you know, for these sports that don't have the 165 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,840 huge voluntary donor base to some degree, like say men's 166 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,280 basketball has, how do you generate and maintain and build 167 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,400 upon the numbers that you're generating? 168 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,560 And can you make it so that it's a diffused across a lot of 169 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:51,560 different people so that nobody's necessarily feeling 170 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:55,000 like they're having to donate for things that they don't want 171 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,080 to? But also, you know, how do you 172 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,400 make it so that you can expand the interest and maybe the 173 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,200 connectivity with athletes and coaching Staffs and then the 174 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,040 people that are supporting them? This is it's a really 175 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,240 interesting situation when you think about how the NCAA has 176 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,400 tried to treat athletes over the course of time. 177 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,360 Because if you really think about the NCAA rule book from a 178 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,160 philosophical perspective, you know, obviously you know, the 179 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,680 the rules are often written down in this very confusing legalese 180 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,040 mumbo jumbo. But if you really think about it 181 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:36,360 more from a conceptual basis, a lot of the NCAA's premise and 182 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:40,000 the way that they've approached rules has been centered on this 183 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,480 idea that athletes are not supposed to be utilizing 184 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,720 themselves to market their sport or themselves unless it is 185 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,440 something that it's being done on their behalf by an athletic 186 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,680 department or by the NCAA. So you know, you've you've all 187 00:10:55,680 --> 00:11:00,360 seen those ads for, you know, the NCAA, you know, basically 188 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,040 self aggrandizing and like the one with Kyle Hornsby, you know, 189 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:09,040 where he's like a former basketball player now doctor and 190 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,760 that that kind of thing. The way that a lot of the sports 191 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,640 have been promoted, it's been about, oh, here's what they're 192 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,080 doing on the field or on the court and. 193 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,600 Rarely do we see, and, and this is by design mind you, rarely 194 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,800 have we seen athletes personalities really be utilized 195 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,840 effectively to market themselves, market their sports 196 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,120 and be used within the confines of a fundraising operation. 197 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,600 You'll see some of that internally with donors, they'll 198 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,280 be OK. You know, donor meet and greets 199 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,240 are certainly a thing. But now we're moving into an era 200 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,960 where sports, especially sports again, outside of the the big 201 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,200 revenue generating sports, are going to have to be more 202 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,520 entrepreneurial in the way that they think about these things. 203 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,360 They're going to have to be more aggressive in utilizing what 204 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:07,120 market value and brand equity they have and their athletes 205 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,920 have in getting people interested in donating money to 206 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,720 help bring in the next wave of athletes or pay the athletes 207 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,880 that are already there or attract athletes as transfers 208 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,640 from other institutions where they might not be able to get as 209 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,800 good of a deal That is, I think women's basketball may be the 210 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,520 sport where there's the kind of the biggest tipping point 211 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,600 potential right now on that front because we have obviously 212 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,160 seen this groundswell of interest in women's basketball. 213 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,600 Thanks to Caitlin Clark and thanks to, you know, many of the 214 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,720 other players that have come through college over the last 215 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,120 few years and have both performed well at that level and 216 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,240 have started to play at the WNBA level. 217 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,040 You've you've got this moment where people's attention is on 218 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,840 that game. And women's basketball to some 219 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,920 degree finds itself in the position as a sport overall 220 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,200 where it's like, how do we take the the personality aspects of 221 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,880 our players and get that in front of people to try to 222 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:05,760 generate more interest? Because that's where the money's 223 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,360 going to have to come from. Yes, there may be some entry 224 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,680 points for businesses, particularly people that want to 225 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,640 sponsor athletes, but a lot of that is probably going to be 226 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,000 tied more to individuals. As opposed to something that you 227 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,800 can then tie back into a larger program or group. 228 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,240 And that's, that's essentially what I'm talking about with all 229 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,720 of this. So, you know, I, I love the fact 230 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,600 that Hoosiers connect did that event. 231 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,640 It's one of the reasons why I wanted to go up there and, and 232 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,240 take part and, and do what I could to help out. 233 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,200 But I'm also very fascinated in these things from a, a 234 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,400 managerial perspective and a directional perspective with 235 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,240 college athletics. You're, you're, I, I it's really 236 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,080 along the lines of what you would see in, you know, some 237 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,440 aspects of, of professional sport, but smaller professional 238 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,080 sports where you're not. The NFL, you're not necessarily 239 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,360 going to be able to market the game. 240 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:03,120 And the the. Team names as the only thing 241 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,200 that's going to bring in money and interest you, you have to 242 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,760 utilize and leverage your athletes and your coaches and 243 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,640 they have to be able and willing to go out and help to produce 244 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,880 the the kind of atmosphere that leads to more donations. 245 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,720 And I know a lot of you out there are probably thinking why 246 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,120 are we having to fund all of this? 247 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,200 And at the end of the day, you know, I know fans, especially 248 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,200 donors, are probably going to think along those lines. 249 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,880 But I think it's also important to think about the the structure 250 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,640 of how donations have been thought about within the 251 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,480 confines of college sports. Like the NCAA went out of their 252 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,840 way in this process of trying to fight name, image and likeness 253 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,600 as as even something that athletes could make money off 254 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,200 of. And for many years, the NCAA's 255 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,320 base stance on all of these things was that athletes at the 256 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,080 college level don't actually have any market value. 257 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,280 Their market value is tied up and who they're playing for, 258 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,440 what teams they're playing for, which is why, you know, I mean, 259 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,960 that was a core argument that the NCAA made in its legal 260 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,200 arguments during the court cases. 261 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,960 And then when the NCAA essentially got slapped down 262 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,040 and. Had to face the reality that 263 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,880 they were going to have to rely or they're going to have to 264 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:21,160 allow NIL money to be made. It's why they forbade athletes 265 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,440 from. Being able to use Marks and 266 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,800 logos of the teams in anything that they did in IL wise, which 267 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,600 I think maybe you're aware of, But if you're not a a quick 268 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,200 refresher, if you're an IU athlete and you're going and 269 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,200 doing something that's NIL related, you're not allowed to 270 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,840 wear IU gear, IU apparel. If you want to go do an 271 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,200 autograph signing, you're supposed to not have anything 272 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,280 connected to IU as a part of that. 273 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,840 Then again, that goes back to the NCAA's wrong argument. 274 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,640 I think we can say now, given how successful a lot of athletes 275 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,280 have been in the NIL space over the last three years, it's it's 276 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,920 it just highlights that their argument was wrong, that 277 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,160 athletes at the college level do indeed have market value. 278 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,920 And so now it's like, well, the, you know, the NCAA and its 279 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,000 member schools went out of their way to say we are not going to 280 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,880 help any athlete in terms of their NIL. 281 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,960 We're not going to provide you accounting assistance for tax 282 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,480 purposes. We're not going to provide you 283 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,520 with any legal assistance. And yet now. 284 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,080 Three years later, a lot of these schools are looking around 285 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,440 and saying, well, we don't want to get rid of all of these 286 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,760 athletics programs we've got. But now we've got essentially a 287 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,640 system where the NCAA and, and us as members have said, well, 288 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:37,920 you guys got to do this on your own. 289 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,760 So it makes it very much a situation where if you're trying 290 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,240 to run and maintain any kind of a program where you don't 291 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,720 already have a tremendous amount of money flowing in the door, it 292 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,760 can make it very difficult to to coordinate those things 293 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,120 effectively. And ultimately, I think a lot of 294 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,280 these programs are are looking at the reality and I think the 295 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,040 NCAA kind of needs to face the music that this isn't a 296 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,920 realistic way of handling things moving forward. 297 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,240 It is it is one of those situations where these really 298 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,960 need to be more coordinated efforts. 299 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,240 And you're talking about in many cases, the survival of 300 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,680 individual sports and and the ability of athletes to play 301 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,000 those sports. And this is going to be a really 302 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,480 fascinating test case in terms of all the things that people 303 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,200 have said that they're they're really interested in college 304 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,440 athletics. This is where we're going to, I 305 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,400 guess, see if if that's actually the case moving forward. 306 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,280 So this is something that I've read about it at several other 307 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,560 areas. And in fact, what prompted me to 308 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,160 even think about talking about this today, there was an article 309 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,040 that focused on what's going on at Wisconsin right now, as 310 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,640 Wisconsin has a bunch of donors who are like, well, you know, 311 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,800 what do we do? Do we donate to like a new 312 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,840 football facility? Or do we donate to the athletic 313 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,960 department or do we donate to NIL? 314 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:01,840 Because there's been this back and forth. 315 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,720 I mean, a lot of the money that's been donated in the past 316 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,560 to athletics has gone towards paying for scholarships, which 317 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,640 is still going to be an expense. That's not like that goes away 318 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,960 with NIL. You're still going to have to 319 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,640 provide that scholarship money in addition to payments for 320 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,600 name, image and likeness, which is a separate thing, you know, 321 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:26,600 But we've seen several schools and coaches, including Maryland, 322 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,520 including a couple of others who have basically said, you know, 323 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,640 if you're going to donate to athletics, please donate to NIL 324 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,000 because that's where we need the money. 325 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,760 So what apparently is going to be happening at Wisconsin is 326 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,400 this was this was something that MIT Winter noted on Twitter. 327 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,640 Some donors will be able to. Give to athletics in general 328 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,240 coming up soon and then the. School will be able to decide 329 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,440 where the money is best used. This is a really interesting and 330 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,960 quirky and and often misunderstood aspect of when 331 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,160 people donate to anything college related. 332 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,040 It is you know, the sometimes donations for college and 333 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,920 universities end up being really hyper specific and the money 334 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,960 once it's donated can only be used on the specific thing that 335 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,760 is stated in the donor agreement. 336 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,760 It's not something that, you know, if I donated $100,000 to 337 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:24,520 to Indiana University, for instance, and I said, I really 338 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,640 want this to go towards scholarships for, you know, 339 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,480 underprivileged youth in Vermilion County, Indiana that 340 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,080 want to go to IU. But there was nobody that fit 341 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,040 that category for a couple of years. 342 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,280 It's not like the university could then say, well, we're 343 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,360 going to use that money on something else this time. 344 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,640 And there are there are tons of donations at colleges and 345 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,920 universities across the country that are just sitting in 346 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,880 accounts not being spent because. 347 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,680 The intent that the donor provided in their gift agreement 348 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,200 actually either doesn't exist anymore or can't effectively be 349 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,880 executed. And with athletics, a lot of 350 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,680 these donations get earmarked towards. 351 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,640 Certain things. And so the idea that you could 352 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,400 donate to a general athletic fund and let the athletic 353 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,440 department turn around and make a decision about where that 354 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,920 money could best be allocated is a pretty interesting step. 355 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,640 And I think that that's something that a lot of athletic 356 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,480 departments are going to end up doing as we move forward. 357 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:24,120 There's another interesting aspect, which Adrian Wojnarowski 358 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:29,200 just tweeted about, which is Syracuse basketball hired a 359 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,280 general manager. They ended up hiring a scout. 360 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,040 From the New York Knicks, who graduated from Syracuse about 361 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,680 eight years ago. And that person's job 362 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,960 specifically is going to be working with their head coach on 363 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,280 player personnel decisions and NIL. 364 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,320 And this is something I think we're going to see added. 365 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,840 And we've kind of seen it a little bit already. 366 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Like this was the kind of role that I think everybody thought 367 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,280 that Mata was going to be playing when he was here. 368 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,920 You obviously need a situation where you have a coach who's 369 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,840 willing to listen to AGM, which I guess is not a whole lot 370 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,000 different from what you'll get at the professional rank 371 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,960 sometimes, but it is clear. Given how complex the nil space 372 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,920 is, how complex the transfer portal is? 373 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,600 And having to balance all of that while also recruiting and 374 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,360 also coaching and doing development, there's a lot that 375 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:26,800 has to be managed there, probably a lot more than a head 376 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,800 coach and a handful of assistants can currently handle. 377 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,680 So that's going to be, I think, an interesting thing to watch. 378 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,080 And I think most major programs, especially programs that 379 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,400 generate a lot of NIL revenue or have a lot of turnover because 380 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,920 they're bringing in, you know, new players every year or 381 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,280 they're having to compete on the transfer market for players. 382 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,480 This is going to have to be one of those absolutely required 383 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,320 positions that those programs are going to have to hire. 384 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,400 And I think Indiana fits right into that category. 385 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,520 So we'll see what happens as we move forward. 386 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,360 I I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of movement going 387 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:06,040 on in the NCAA right now. There was another story which 388 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,600 our friend Taylor Lehman at Bite sized Bison just put a note out 389 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:15,680 on on sub stack that the NCAA is moving forward. 390 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,920 I'm quoting Taylor's piece here. The NCAA is moving forward with 391 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,680 the removal of coaching staff limits and just recently added 392 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,720 an approval for all staffers to provide quote, technical and 393 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,720 tactical instruction in games and during practice. 394 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,480 And as Taylor points out, this is not good for Indiana. 395 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,720 It's not good for anybody outside of the the really 396 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,880 heavily resourced programs. But I on the flip side of that, 397 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,000 I will say that it's probably a necessary thing in both football 398 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,560 and men's basketball because of how complex the the landscape 399 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,960 is. You're going to need to expand 400 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,360 coaching Staffs to more to, to broader numbers. 401 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,520 I mean, you know, if you think about the, the way that we 402 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,080 handle player development, player coaching, whether it's 403 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,200 football or basketball, it a lot of the restrictions that have 404 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,880 existed up to this point and the, the, the lack of a number 405 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,280 of assistant coaches has really been put into place to try to 406 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,200 put restrictions on what high level programs can do compared 407 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,760 to what lower level programs can do. 408 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:28,240 But as these continue to pull apart as the upper tier from a a 409 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,960 financial perspective of college athletics gets further away from 410 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,640 the middle and lower tiers, I think you also have to start 411 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,760 looking at how are we, you know, spending money and how are we 412 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,440 effectively coaching or training the people that we've got. 413 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,520 Yes, it is an advantage to have more coaches on the field, just 414 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080 like it's an advantage to have somebody specifically there to 415 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,800 work on your player personnel and IL items in the background. 416 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,680 This is just going to be a big change for everybody. 417 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,080 And I think ultimately, for as much as people talk about the 418 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,400 professionalization of college athletics, this is where you 419 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,480 could say, yes, it's becoming more professional, but you could 420 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,200 also make the argument that this is where the reality of how 421 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,320 complicated this circumstances is finally starting to register. 422 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,080 And these are some of the results that are coming out of 423 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,480 the adaptations to that. And you know, you can say, you 424 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,080 know, this is bad for IU in terms of like, now you've got 425 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,080 almost unlimited coaching. You don't have unlimited 426 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,320 recruiting in terms of the number of coaches that can go do 427 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,760 that, but you can have all these people coaching your players. 428 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,600 Yes, that that could be bad for Indiana. 429 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,000 But it is also a circumstance where the question is whether 430 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,840 it's, you know, is that a, is that a three or 4% advantage for 431 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,880 another program? Does Indiana find that they 432 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,760 actually can invest in this a bit more? 433 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,200 Is this where you can get more, you know, more graduate 434 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,440 assistants involved in things? Because a lot of different 435 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,160 facets to this that I think is going to be interesting to keep 436 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,680 an eye on. But I think the macro issue is 437 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,280 really as this trajectory continues forward with the with 438 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,520 NIL, with, with the financial realities of college sports 439 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,800 changing, I think you're going to see more of these things 440 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,600 because ultimately there is going to be a functional 441 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,120 separation between how the top programs conduct business and 442 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,840 how everybody else conducts business. 443 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,920 And you know, I, as much as people lament that occurring, I 444 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,240 think this was inevitable. And to some degree, the fact 445 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,720 that it's all happening at once indicates how much of this 446 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,160 reality has been repressed up to this point. 447 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,040 And is often times happens in these sorts of situations. 448 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,200 Whenever you have a repressed reality, it all starts to hit at 449 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,920 once. And then as a huge scramble to 450 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,440 try to figure out all right, like what are we doing in this 451 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:46,440 new reality? And. 452 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,840 Are all of these things actually needed? 453 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,800 So these are all things to keep an eye on if you're paying 454 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,080 attention to college sports and and they directly affect Indiana 455 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,280 in a bunch of different ways, but they affect everybody else 456 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,080 as well. And this is where you just hope 457 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,840 the people that are running. Things, you know, really have 458 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,280 their heads on straight in terms of how can we utilize this and 459 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,880 manage it to our advantage. Let's go ahead and hit a couple 460 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,520 of other lines of questioning that we had. 461 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,920 We had a question from the most recent batch. 462 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,360 Let's see Greg Lamont asked with this is a basketball question 463 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:28,480 with league expansion and schedule, do you expect Big 10 464 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,280 teams to schedule non conference in a similar way to Big 12 net 465 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,760 boosters from last year? I use playing a multi team 466 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,240 exempt tournament this year obviously in Atlantis. 467 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,480 So I don't expect a huge opponent home or away. 468 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,080 Illinois versus Duke backing right into March is also a 469 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:47,400 resume question mark. Yeah. 470 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,040 So it's, this is one of those really fascinating areas that, 471 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,680 you know, the, the NCAA constantly with the NCAA 472 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,240 tournament selection process. They're, they, they create 473 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,080 formulas that they think are going to fix a problem. 474 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,480 And often time they will fix a problem, but then they will 475 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,200 eliminate or they will, excuse me, they will create another 476 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,680 problem in their place. I remember this happening. 477 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:15,240 I want to say it was about 2005 or 2006 when the NCAA tweaked 478 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,320 the RPI for the first time. And the reason that they tweaked 479 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,280 the RPI in basketball was that they were finding that there 480 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,600 were certain teams and certain leagues that were tweaking their 481 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,040 scheduling to take advantage of the mathematics of the RPI. 482 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,720 And the RPI, for those who don't know or remember how that 483 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,160 worked, that it's still around. It's not like it went away, just 484 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,480 doesn't get used officially. But the RPI was in is still used 485 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,160 in a lot of sports for tournament selection. 486 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,120 And it's, it's essentially used as like a primary tool and say 487 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:53,560 soccer or or baseball. And what it is, is a very simple 488 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,120 kind of blunt force object of a formula where it measures your 489 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:00,920 record, your opponent's records and your opponent's opponents 490 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,680 records in terms of overall winning percentage. 491 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,040 What the NCAA did when they tweaked it because they found 492 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,040 that teams were scheduling teams that were winning a lot of games 493 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,520 but weren't very good. So, you know, teams that were 494 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,600 good in yet in lower conferences, you know, but 495 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,840 weren't necessarily high quality teams that game the RPI. 496 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,360 They also found that, you know, because it didn't matter whether 497 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,160 you're playing home or away, teams were just scheduling as 498 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,640 many games at home as possible. And it's one of the reasons why 499 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,720 Syracuse famously would schedule so many games at home and and 500 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,840 wouldn't wouldn't play outside the state of New York. 501 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,680 So the NC Double H tweaked the formula to make Rd. games count 502 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,720 more even if you lost one, and then home games count less. 503 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,160 What that ended up doing was then creating a whole new 504 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,000 scheduling problem where teams started scheduling bad teams on 505 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,640 the road and winning those games and those wins counted more than 506 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,840 the other games that they were playing. 507 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,040 When the net was created, it was supposed to solve that by 508 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,240 creating tiers of teams and then it became more about the quality 509 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,800 of the opponent that you played, except they also built margin of 510 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,480 victory into the net. And that meant that often times 511 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,600 you would get rewarded in your net rating more for blowing out 512 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,480 a bad team then you would be for beating a decent or good team 513 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,840 close. And So what we saw this past 514 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,040 year and what we're seeing increasingly as we see these non 515 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,920 conference schedules is teams opting to schedule a bunch of 516 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:39,200 terrible teams, winning those games by thirty 3540 points. 517 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,240 And that ends up having a really positive effect on your net. 518 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,480 And and so you end up with these wild variations between who's 519 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,200 good in the net versus who's good in something like Ken Palm, 520 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:57,600 which is more of a schedule or a a it's a metric that looks at 521 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,400 your offensive and defensive efficiency. 522 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,320 So that it's something a little bit different than that. 523 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,000 You know, if you if you look at the the teams that were in the 524 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,360 the, the non conference strength of schedule, like best and worst 525 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,320 categories, there were a lot of teams that scheduled really 526 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,280 badly but blew out their opponents. 527 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,680 And it's screwed up essentially how the computers looked at 528 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,480 them, both the net and to a lesser degree something like 529 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,960 Kenpalm. Like if you go back and look at 530 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,760 this past year, you know, the the biggest offenders were 531 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,880 probably Iowa State, who was a two seed, if you'll recall, went 532 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,320 29 and eight. They had the number one defense 533 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,600 in the country, but they had the 345th toughest non conference 534 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,160 strength of schedule. And if you look down the list of 535 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,040 teams that they played, I mean, they had, you know, Lindenwood, 536 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,360 Prairie View A&M, Florida A&M, Eastern Illinois, all of those 537 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:57,840 teams were below 300 and DePaul as well, below 300 in Kenpalm. 538 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,240 But they blew all of them out pretty much. 539 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,960 They only beat DePaul by 18, but they blew the rest of them out. 540 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,720 They, you know, they beat Prairie View A&M by 51. 541 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,560 They beat Eastern Illinois by 32. 542 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,080 They beat Florida A&M by what, 40 points? 543 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,880 So 38 points. So like, that's how a lot of 544 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,800 teams decided to approach this. And even though Iowa State, they 545 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,160 lost to Virginia Tech on a neutral floor, they lost to 546 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,040 Texas A&M on a neutral floor, they built up such statistical 547 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,280 cachet by blowing out those opponents that it made them look 548 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,040 better than they probably actually were. 549 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,080 And well, you know, they made it to the Sweet 16. 550 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,560 You know, they, they, they clearly weren't awful. 551 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,400 It did inflate their ranking in the computer systems, which had 552 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,320 a direct impact on their seating and how they were selected and 553 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,440 where they were put in the tournament. 554 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:48,560 And there's other teams like that. 555 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,160 South Carolina was like that last year, Northwestern was like 556 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,720 that last year, TCU was like that last year. 557 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,920 So I do think to go back to the question that was. 558 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,280 Asked by Greg, Yes, I do think you're going to see a situation 559 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,280 where Big 10 teams are going to adapt and look at what the Big 560 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,720 12 and others are doing and say, well, why would we bang our head 561 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,240 against the wall and and schedule too difficult when we 562 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,560 don't get the rewards for it? You know, yes, you can say, 563 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,440 well, we need to play tougher opponents to get ready for 564 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,080 March, but you know, there's so many good teams you're going to 565 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,920 play in your own conference. If you're in one of the major 566 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,160 conferences right now, I think it's much less of an issue. 567 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,120 And that is something, and I think you see it in football as 568 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,120 well to a lesser extent. We've yet to really figure out 569 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,240 how to handle that paradigm of we blew A-Team out, but they 570 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,800 weren't very good versus what we we played this team closer. 571 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,040 We lost to this team and it was really close and they're real. 572 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,560 They're really good team that we played. 573 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,680 The rewards don't seem to be for the for that. 574 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,720 They seem to be for the former where you're beating the bad 575 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,240 teams by a huge amount of points. 576 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,040 And so that is something I'm really fascinated to see. 577 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,640 I think it's going to make for some bad basketball games 578 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,040 though. And, and I do think that what 579 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,120 we're going to see to some degree within, you know, the 580 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:12,080 confines of, of how we approach the scheduling process here, 581 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,080 unless the NCAA really changes their, you know, their, their 582 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,560 system and really tries to take into account a bunch of 583 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,440 different scenarios. You know, why would you break a 584 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,960 sweat in the non conference if you actually get rewarded for 585 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,680 not breaking a sweat in the non conference? 586 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:35,560 So we had a similar question from another person on Twitter. 587 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,560 Does the need for should be easy wins in football early in the 588 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,000 season to get to a bowl outweigh the loss in competitive reps for 589 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,520 players and coaches by smacking low level opponents? 590 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,920 I would say yes, but I'm curious on your take. 591 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:55,440 So basically the question here from Beaufort Ball Smith is, are 592 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,560 the wins more important than the reps? 593 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,360 And for a school like Indiana, the winds are always the most 594 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,360 important thing. I think that's a really key 595 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,480 thing to keep in mind. It's also, frankly, the lesson 596 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,800 that IU has failed to learn historically when it's come to 597 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,679 its football program. We've talked about this on the 598 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,239 show many times before. If you go back and look at the 599 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,320 way IU scheduled football in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s, 600 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,760 even in the 2000s, you know, IU has always placed a premium, it 601 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,080 appears on scheduling harder than they should competition. 602 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,639 Some of that has been, you know, due to rivalry. 603 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,440 I mean, at a long standing series with Kentucky, they tried 604 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,360 to get a rivalry of sorts going by scheduling Missouri 605 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,360 regularly. But a lot of it has been almost 606 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,320 like what we we have a responsibility or maybe we're 607 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,920 trying to Jack up ticket sales by having better games. 608 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:58,000 And you know, that's why even in years when you you really needed 609 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,680 to pad your stats with a couple of wins to try to get close to 610 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,840 bowl eligibility, you're scheduling non conference games 611 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,000 against Navy, who's a notoriously difficult nut to 612 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,120 crack because they play such a a unique style or or played a 613 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,120 unique style under their coach. Or you'd see Indiana, you know, 614 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,040 schedule Oregon in the mid 2000s. 615 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,200 Yes, they won one of those games was like, what is Indiana in the 616 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,200 depths of the Jerry Dinardo era doing scheduling Oregon. 617 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,880 It doesn't make any sense. You know, why are they 618 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,240 scheduling if you can get on the list? 619 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:30,360 I mean, there's there's so many teams that Indiana has scheduled 620 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,120 in the non conference. We're just kind of scratching 621 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,440 your head like why are you not just using that time to cash 622 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,720 some wins? The chances are in, in most 623 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,800 historical seasons, Indiana's going to lose to the good teams 624 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,280 in the Big 10 anyway. And then the question is, are 625 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,760 you close enough that if you pull off wins against three 626 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,960 average to poor teams in the Big 10, you know what is that the 627 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960 difference between getting to six wins or to four wins or 628 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,640 five? And IUA lot of times has had 629 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,600 seasons where they probably should have gone to Bulls or at 630 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,040 least been bowl eligible but they scheduled too hard in the 631 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,760 non conference and they went into the conference season at 632 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,840 one and two rather than going into the non. 633 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,280 Or. Coming out of the non conference 634 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,280 at three and O 2001 is a great example of that. 635 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,320 You know, Antoine Randall L that season, that was that failed 636 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,480 experiment where they moved into wide receiver and then had to 637 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,880 move him back to to quarterback. But I think what people forget 638 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,440 about that season is are you over scheduled severely in the 639 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,200 non conference? They they they they were at NC 640 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,560 State that year and at NC State team was good. 641 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,240 They, you know, they play a Utah team that's coached by Urban 642 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,640 Meyer that that was feisty and beat them. 643 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,080 And yeah, they beat Kentucky that year. 644 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,800 But if you're already playing Kentucky, like, why aren't you 645 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,760 loading up on on cream puffs to, you know, and because think 646 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,880 about Indiana went five and six that year and that robbed 647 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,280 Antoine Randall of a reasonable chance of the Heisman. 648 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,120 It led to Cam Cameron getting fired and it ended up 649 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,000 essentially ending the Cameron era. 650 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,080 You know, probably before it should have been ended in terms 651 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,040 of you look at what happened afterwards. 652 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,240 And that's a big sliding doors moment for IU. 653 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:13,560 Like if IU goes 6:00 and 5:00 or 7:00 and 4:00 and has a player 654 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,080 that, you know, potentially wins the Heisman Trophy that year. 655 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,040 I don't know if he actually. Would have, but I mean, it's, it 656 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,560 was a possibility at least if they had gotten into bowl 657 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,920 eligibility. May you, you avoid the Jerry 658 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,680 Dinardo era perhaps at that point. 659 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,040 And maybe the entire trajectory of the, of the 2000s and even 660 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,440 the 2000 tens is different. But IU is always over scheduled. 661 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,400 It's actually why when the news came down last year that the 662 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,000 Louisville series was getting bought out, a lot of people 663 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,720 scoffed. They, they laughed at IU for 664 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,480 buying their way out of what looked like a difficult series. 665 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,000 But it's like it, you know what it's about time. 666 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,800 Like, you know, if you look at what Minnesota's done and it's 667 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,800 not just under PJ Fleck, they did this under Jerry Kill as 668 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,000 well, and they did it under Glen Mason. 669 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,240 You know, they, they schedule about as weekly as you possibly 670 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:03,920 can in the non conference. They get to six or seven or 671 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,600 sometimes more than that eight wins. 672 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,680 And I think to go back to the question that was asked, to me, 673 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,400 reps are less important than confidence. 674 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,600 And you're going to be a lot more confident as a team if 675 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,000 you're 4 and O going into your first Big 10 game, then if 676 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,680 you're two and two, regardless of the reps you got against 677 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,760 better competition. And so that's that's where I 678 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,280 would land on that. Ultimately, I want to see IU put 679 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,880 themselves in the best possible position to take advantage of 680 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,720 wins that are going to put them in proximity to bowl berths. 681 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:42,800 And it appears that they've gotten the hint on that. 682 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,200 And I think, you know, Kurt Cignetti almost certainly 683 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,680 understands that that is an important thing. 684 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,440 It doesn't mean you'll never play a tough non conference 685 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,320 opponent. I do hope that it'd be, you 686 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,720 know, it'd be nice to have the Notre Dame series on the 687 00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,320 schedule. I think there's other tangible 688 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,200 benefits there that would be helpful for IU. 689 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,560 But at the end of the day, especially as you're trying to 690 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,720 build a program up, you need wins. 691 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:10,120 You need wins more than reps. And so I'm I'm excited about how 692 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,560 bad this non conference schedule is for IU this year. 693 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,920 I just hope that they're able to take advantage of it, win all 694 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,240 three of those games, and now you've got essentially nine 695 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:24,680 chances to win three additional games to get yourself to a bowl. 696 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Craig Spillman asked, has the SEC announced or decided on 697 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,680 anything the same or similar to what the Big 10 has for NIL? 698 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,360 So I think what Craig's referring to here, there was a 699 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,080 note about how the Big 10, at least a couple of schools in the 700 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,560 Big 10 seem to be pursuing the NIL payments in the $22 million 701 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,920 items, $22 million of payments based upon the idea that it 702 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,520 needs to be distributed evenly based upon Title 9 and the idea 703 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,280 that like half the money's going to go to female athletes and or 704 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,840 not half. But proportionally, female 705 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,800 athletes at IU for instance would get like 53% of the NIL 706 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,280 distro, whereas male athletes would get 47% because that's the 707 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,240 ratio of the university in terms of male and female. 708 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,600 I don't think the SEC really knows yet what they're going to 709 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,120 do, and I honestly don't think the Big 10 hot does either. 710 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:23,080 I think that a lot of what's being done is firing up some 711 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:29,880 signal flares with this stuff to see how the reactions come in 712 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,240 from the regulatory bodies that that govern these things. 713 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,760 It's interesting, you know, the increasingly the political 714 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,720 aspects of college sports and the legal aspects of college 715 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:46,080 sports tie into actual politics. There was, of course the 716 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,040 decision that happened today, which is is pretty controversial 717 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,160 from the Supreme Court in this Chevron overturning the Chevron 718 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,120 case, which essentially allowed government regulatory agencies 719 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,520 to set guidelines not explicitly spelled out by Congress. 720 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,720 It's a very complicated ruling in terms of like how to describe 721 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:10,520 it, but the the knock on effect is essentially that you're going 722 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,920 to see a lot of decisions now being made by judges as opposed 723 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,560 to being made by regulatory bodies. 724 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,680 I do wonder with with what we see with Title 9 and how that's 725 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,880 been enforced up to this point. I do wonder as we move forward 726 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,960 if a lot of the guidance around resource allocations related to 727 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,680 Title 9 maybe don't get enforced quite the same way because of 728 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,960 the the knock on effects of that kind of ruling. 729 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,360 And this general atmosphere in the United States right now 730 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,280 towards deregulation, which has been, you know, really a 3540 731 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,640 year arc. And we're seeing these things 732 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,920 happening more and more. Putting everything else about 733 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,800 that aside, this is going to be really fascinating because I 734 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,640 think most schools are trying to strike a balance where it's 735 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,880 like, well, we know that the money that's coming in, the 736 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,840 money that is being generated from television, the money 737 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,200 that's being generated by ad sales for the Big 10 Network or 738 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,240 or whatever network, the SEC Network, if you're in the SEC 739 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:19,560 like that, is largely being generated by the content that is 740 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,920 produced off of football and men's basketball. 741 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,640 You know it's. Not to say that women's 742 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,120 basketball or some of the other sports don't generate any 743 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,200 revenue, but they generate comparatively very little. 744 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,200 The ad spaces generate comparatively little. 745 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,080 Because those sports just are not as popular. 746 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,080 And and that doesn't mean that you know, they're, they're 747 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:37,200 worse. It just means they're not as 748 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,400 popular. And that matters when it comes 749 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,240 to ad sales and things of that nature. 750 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,480 So with this, I think a lot of these Big 10 schools have 751 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,440 decided they're going to March into these things, saying what 752 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,840 we're going to do when what we think Title 9 says. 753 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,080 Knowing that that's probably not what's going to happen. 754 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,360 And whether it's through lawsuits from football players 755 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,920 saying we're generating 90% of the money, why are we only 756 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,120 getting a proportion of 47% of the money as an example. 757 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,560 I think that will that will turn some things around. 758 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,760 And I also think ultimately that the courts and the settlements 759 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,840 will probably have some more explicit language about what and 760 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,480 how all of this stuff gets applied. 761 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,600 I think it's going to be really fascinating thing. 762 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,720 And I think you're probably going to see some contradictory 763 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:29,840 statements coming from schools and their own conferences as we 764 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,600 move forward. Because it doesn't cost you 765 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,880 anything to say you're going to do something and then find out 766 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,480 what the reaction is. It really only cost you if you 767 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,160 do something and then you get sued. 768 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,240 But even then, I think because of the lack of input or the lack 769 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:47,720 of guidance, schools right now and you and conferences would 770 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:50,240 rather air on the side of we're going to keep things business as 771 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,880 usual and then they will adapt as they move forward rather than 772 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,720 saying we're going to chart a brand new course on this. 773 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:58,280 We're going to do XY and Z. Chances are you're probably 774 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,160 going to get sued either way. It's a lot easier to be sued and 775 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,600 roll things back than it is to get sued and have to pay 776 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,200 restitution. So that's really where I'm going 777 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,960 to be fascinated to see how this all plays out. 778 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,840 But it's a really good question, Craig, and it's something we're 779 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,240 going to have to keep an eye on. As as we move forward. 780 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,960 I've been in a couple more questions. 781 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,000 We got a lot of good questions coming in today. 782 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,440 Evan Deal asked thoughts on Indiana football recruiting. 783 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,280 How does it differ from the previous regime and how do you 784 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:25,880 think it's going? And, and actually, we had a 785 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,560 connected question from Pitt Hoosier. 786 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,440 I looked at the 24/7 football team rankings and although IU is 787 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,000 ranked 12th in the Big 10, they're actually 11th now. 788 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,680 I believe in cumulative scores. When you look at the average 789 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,960 recruit score, we're dead last. Yet IU fans seem to be excited 790 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,520 about the 2025 class so far. What gives? 791 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,520 So to kind of answer both of those questions as best I can, I 792 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,160 think a lot of the the excitement over recruiting is 793 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,200 twofold. One, there some legitimately 794 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,240 intriguing prospects that are being pulled into this class and 795 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,480 they're from different places than we've seen Indiana 796 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,400 recruiting. And there is I also, frankly, I 797 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,080 think a different type of player, maybe a higher caliber 798 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,400 player that we're seeing get, you know, signing with IU, but 799 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,960 also just getting recruited by IU. 800 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,200 And a lot of it is this is buzz and I understand and and 801 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,320 certainly, you know, I myself have tried not to leap too fully 802 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,480 into getting overly excited about football recruiting 803 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,800 because at the end of the day, as we've talked about many times 804 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,360 on the show, what matters is how you play once you get here, not 805 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,080 what your ranking is before you get here. 806 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,280 But even going back to Pitt Hoosier's question about what 807 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,920 the rankings, the aggregate ranking seem higher than normal, 808 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,000 but the the individual numbers are lower. 809 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,200 One of the things about this staff that I think is really 810 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,080 exciting and yes, it's potential. 811 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,880 It's all potential right now. We don't know if it's actual 812 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,840 because we haven't actually seen the output. 813 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,960 But I do know from what this staff did at James Madison and 814 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:02,920 the way that they've approached things so far and the types of 815 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,520 recruits they're bringing in, you know, and also just the 816 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,800 success rates that they've had with the players that they 817 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,080 brought in who have not been highly regarded. 818 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,320 There's two things about the staff that I think are really 819 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,840 intriguing. A you know, Cignetti has said 820 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,680 multiple times he doesn't really care about recruiting rankings. 821 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,200 And we, we hear that from others. 822 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,760 I mean, Matt Painter famously talks about how he doesn't pay 823 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,440 attention to that. He he looks at fit. 824 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,080 And I think with Cignetti, a lot of it is he trusts his instincts 825 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,200 and his Staffs instincts about what types of players they want, 826 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,920 how well they think those players can develop and how well 827 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,520 they'll fit into the system that they want to play in. 828 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,720 And I think all of those things are are very important. 829 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,440 Like I, I think this coaching staff, based on what they did at 830 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,960 James Madison, deserves the benefit of the doubt in terms of 831 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,240 what they're trying to put together. 832 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,320 And the fact that it happens to be bringing in a lot of higher 833 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,640 profile recruits that Indiana was really able to sniff during 834 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,320 the Allen era or even the Wilson era to some degree, I think is 835 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,800 is promising and it's really exciting to think about. 836 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,480 And you know, we talked about this with a lot of Allen's 837 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,560 recruiting. The, you know, he had a what I 838 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,400 think the 26th or 27th ranked recruiting class, one of the 839 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,520 years. And very few of those players 840 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,200 even panned out in the first place. 841 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,520 The rankings aren't everything. So I'm not so much concerned 842 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,160 about the individual numbers or the individual levels of the 843 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,840 recruits based upon what we're seeing right now. 844 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,680 But I do like the fact that it does appear like Indiana's 845 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,880 swimming in a different set of pawns than they have up to this 846 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,280 point in terms of recruiting. And I do think that the the 847 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,200 talent evaluation and the development that this staff has 848 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,480 demonstrated thus far elsewhere is really exciting when you 849 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,520 think about what they might be able to do here. 850 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,400 So that's, I guess where I am excited. 851 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,400 But I'm also, yeah, we won't see this class. 852 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,880 This class won't even be on campus for another year. 853 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,280 And so I'm, I'm not overly worried about it as far as you 854 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,440 know right now is concerned, but I am, I'm really excited about 855 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,080 the trajectory as, as far as how things are going. 856 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,240 And I hope that that will continue because I think this is 857 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,640 much like I said earlier with you want wins more than you want 858 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,040 reps There's a, there's a, there's a cool vibe to this. 859 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,960 What's going on at IU right now. There's a there's a public 860 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,360 perception aspect to what IU is doing on the recruiting front, 861 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,280 and that is exciting. That is one of those situations 862 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,640 where you look at it and you say to yourself, OK, it feels like 863 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,960 IU is kind of the place to be. And maybe that doesn't apply to 864 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,320 the guys who are competing, you know, for spots at Ohio State or 865 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,400 whatever, but it means perhaps that a higher caliber of recruit 866 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,720 and a higher caliber of potential recruit maybe looks at 867 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,640 Indiana in a way that they wouldn't have before. 868 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,880 Now Indiana's got to back that up with action. 869 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,360 They got to back that up with wins. 870 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,080 They got to back that up with signings and retaining players. 871 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,440 And they got to go out and still do good work in the transfer 872 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,080 portal because a lot. That's still going to be an 873 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,360 incredibly important thing. But I do like the overall vibe. 874 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,320 I hate using that word with football given given the 875 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,560 background of things, but I do like the overall vibe that's 876 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,880 being put out through this recruiting process. 877 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,520 And I do really think it's fascinating that IU is 878 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,600 approaching things in a way that seems to be yielding a higher 879 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,840 level of results much with much as with Alan, we have to wait to 880 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,280 see if it actually pans out and hopefully it does this time. 881 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,760 Hopefully that answers your question. 882 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,640 Some good stuff there overall. OK, we had one more question on 883 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,640 the podcast and it regarded the situation. 884 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,760 I'll just read the question here from CSW Hoosier. 885 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,040 Curious your thoughts on the Reason Hoosier Hysterics 886 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,600 podcast. I know you have to be careful 887 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,440 with what you say, but also, yeesh. 888 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,880 James Turner asking how did your last meeting with Mike Woodson 889 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,320 go? Good, good set of questions 890 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,880 there, guys. Yeah, I, you know, I don't want 891 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,920 to dwell too much on this. I would actually recommend 892 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,240 everybody go listen to the podcast because now there's been 893 00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:16,320 articles written about it. The Indy Star wrote an article 894 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,680 about it. The, you know, WDRV wrote an 895 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,040 article. It's popped up on, on college 896 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,320 sports media related items. It's interesting to me, you 897 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,240 know, that it's, it's a slow news cycle. 898 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:30,240 So I think that's to some degree why this got some attention. 899 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:38,360 But I, I also would like to note that it's it, it's unfortunate 900 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,040 that this ends up being the story that IU deals with and 901 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,320 that the program deals with in the, the latter stages of June. 902 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,320 You know, the, the podcast itself is, is interesting 903 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,400 because it is kind of a peek behind the curtain of how the 904 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,240 messy relationship is. It currently exists between 905 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:04,080 media and donors and nil collectives and all of this kind 906 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,240 of fit together. And you know, I think that the 907 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,240 positioning of this, the framing of this within the media space 908 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:13,320 is kind of an odd one that the whole thing to me. 909 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:15,720 It's kind of. Felt like a bit of a Rorschach 910 00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:18,200 test. You kind of could get what you 911 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,840 wanted out of the podcast. The people that don't like the 912 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,480 Hoosier hysterics don't like what they do, don't like the, 913 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,480 the, the persona or the ACT that they put on on social and on the 914 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,040 podcast. You certainly got a lot of 915 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,720 reinforcement of those beliefs. The people who don't like Mike 916 00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:39,880 Woodson and who feel like, you know, Woodson's out of touch or 917 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,040 Woodson is, is too self important in the job. 918 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,720 Well, you got a lot to work with as well. 919 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,000 Within the podcast. I'll say the following. 920 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,040 You know, I think ultimately it's regrettable that the 921 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,360 decision was made to. Air, all of that. 922 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:00,720 What is essentially a private business conversation, you know, 923 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,240 out in the public, Yes, there were public elements to it 924 00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:05,880 including, you know, this, this, the fan fest and some of the 925 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,680 other items. But at the end of the day, this 926 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,960 whole conversation was essentially appears to be more 927 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,280 of a, of a business focused 1. I personally don't feel that's 928 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,480 the kind of thing you, you should be putting out there 929 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,720 publicly, You know, and I'm, I am kind of curious, like what 930 00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:25,760 was the expected end game with this? 931 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,920 Was it to try to turn the tide against Mike Woodson? 932 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,640 I, I don't know that that's necessarily something that that 933 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,000 this was needed for because I think there's a lot of people 934 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,040 who are pretty ambivalent about Mike Woodson right now. 935 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,640 Just going off of what we saw fan reactions were in January, 936 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,720 February and March. There's a lot of people that 937 00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:47,640 were very disappointed with the way the season went. 938 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,920 And, and you know, they are, they're appreciative of what 939 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,560 happened in the transfer portal, but they don't necessarily trust 940 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,120 what's going to happen moving forward. 941 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,280 So I don't know that necessarily if the idea was we're going to 942 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,760 put this out there and it's going to turn the, the tide of 943 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,480 public opinion against Mike Woodson. 944 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,640 If that was the goal, I don't think that that really happened 945 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,160 because the public sentiment has been pretty. 946 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,560 It's it's been kind of a well, you got what was coming to you 947 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,200 kind of thing. It appears, at least from 948 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,680 looking at Twitter and some of the other areas, you know, I do 949 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,160 think that there is some larger questions and this has been 950 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,280 brought up in several other spaces about, you know, this is 951 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,600 it actually Crimson Corey did a good job of of summarizing this 952 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,160 on the the day that the podcast came out. 953 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:40,320 This is why it's it's almost impossible to be all things to 954 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,600 to all people, at least in terms of being a an independent 955 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,240 podcast. You know, that we're fans react 956 00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:49,960 emotionally, which I think is a paraphrasing of how it was 957 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:54,920 described on the episode itself. So you're that, but you're also, 958 00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,600 you know, kind of a nostalgia focus podcast where you're doing 959 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:04,760 a lot of interviews that are largely, you know, supportive of 960 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:09,840 the overall brand, but you're also engaging with donors in an 961 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,240 NIL collective. You're you're organizing events. 962 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,640 There's just a lot of go a lot going on there. 963 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,120 And I know enough about media to know that especially in this era 964 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,520 where image is so important and the perception of image is so 965 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,520 important and where people in not just sports, but in pretty 966 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:33,000 much every walk of business are very sensitive to internal or 967 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,280 perceived internal partners and what they say and don't say. 968 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,280 The idea that you just get to say whatever you want because 969 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,000 you're bringing money into the athletic department. 970 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,520 I mean, that's that's that's silly. 971 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,080 That's not really a reasonable thing. 972 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,320 And I mean, this is not a hysterics thing alone. 973 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:54,000 I mean, there's a great example on a much bigger level with ESPN 974 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,680 and the NFL that happened about, what, 8 to 10 years ago where, 975 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,080 you know, ESPN and their investigative reporting division 976 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:07,120 is continually doing stories that are are truthful, are well 977 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,240 within the journalistic mission of ESPN where they are 978 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:15,480 uncovering negative things about the NFL or about NFL players and 979 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,720 the NFL. From their perspective and from 980 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:21,760 the perspective of, I think, you know, some people in media, the 981 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,760 idea is, well, they just they have to sit there and take that 982 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,120 because that's ESP NS job and ESPN and the NF LS perspective 983 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,720 was well, no, ESP NS a business partner like they we're we're 984 00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,200 giving them inventory and they're giving us money. 985 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,240 Like why would they be? Going out and saying and doing 986 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,640 things and reporting on things that are then negative towards 987 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,040 their business partner, which is why. 988 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,680 ESPN Monday Night Football games frankly sucked for years because 989 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,480 the NFL kept giving them terrible games. 990 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,440 And it eventually led to when Jimmy Petaro took over as the 991 00:55:54,440 --> 00:56:00,320 ESPN president. They basically had to go to the 992 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,280 NFL, go to Rodger Goodell and apologize and say, we really 993 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,040 want to have a great relationship with you. 994 00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:06,760 What do we need to do to make it happen? 995 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:12,080 And once they did that and, you know, kind of reset the 996 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:16,080 relationship, suddenly ESPN starts getting better games and 997 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,000 things like that. And so to tie that back into 998 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,920 this situation with the podcast, a, you know, whatever the 999 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,680 contents of the conversation, to me, that's, that's just not 1000 00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,840 something that you should put out there. 1001 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,280 What it, whether or not you're saying that you're being 1002 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,160 supportive of, of the program and the team, ultimately what 1003 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,400 you're, what you're doing is you're, you're harming all of 1004 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,200 that publicly over what is essentially a business 1005 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,080 relationship that has gone sour because of one aspect of the 1006 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,560 business that you're running. And I don't think it's a 1007 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,120 reasonable expectation. You may, you can argue that it 1008 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,600 should be, but I don't think that it is a reasonable 1009 00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:01,640 expectation in an era where media messaging is increasingly 1010 00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,240 something that organizations are trying to control to just think, 1011 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:07,960 OK, we're going to put whatever on here. 1012 00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:09,760 Even if it's been said in other venues. 1013 00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,680 If you're partnered with an institution or an organization, 1014 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,440 there's probably going to be a different expectation there in 1015 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:24,080 terms of of what the content sounds like and how you're going 1016 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,000 to be evaluated within that. So my hope is that, you know, 1017 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,720 this ends up blowing out of the news cycle relatively quickly. 1018 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,400 I think it's unfortunate, but it's also just kind of it's not 1019 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,320 the least bit surprising. And I think if you find it 1020 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,200 surprising. It's helpful to kind of pull the 1021 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,840 lens back and think about all of those different elements. 1022 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,160 And that's pretty much all I have to say on that. 1023 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,000 So anyway, we'll see what happens as we move forward here 1024 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,680 into July and obviously, you know, football season, 1025 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,720 basketball season, both coming up here relatively soon. 1026 00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,000 Should be interesting to see how all of the different irons in 1027 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,760 the fire for IU athletics end up. 1028 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,480 Going. So anyway, thanks to all you 1029 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,600 folks for tuning in again. This is Crimson cast. 1030 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,760 We will be back with more coming up early next week. 1031 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,560 We'll have a couple of new episodes dropping. 4th of July 1032 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,280 coming up here soon. I've seen your cooking tweets, 1033 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:16,280 folks. I've seen your cooking 1034 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,520 questions. We'll get to those relatively 1035 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:18,600 soon, I promise. Anyway. 1036 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,880 We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the 1037 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,360 Bison. Solo everybody.