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Hi folks, welcome back to 
Crimson cast or possibly you 

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haven't left. 
Like, you could probably go an 

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entire day just doing straight 
podcast with gaalan and myself. 

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I'm joined by the host and the 
founder of assembly called Jared

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Morris Jared. 
It is an honor to have you on my

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friend and it is good to be 
here. 

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It's good to be a we were just 
talking Going about how, you 

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know, like everybody in the IU 
podcasting space, we all have 

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our roles to fill, you know, 
it's like us over the assembly 

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call like during the season, you
know, games end. 

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All right. 
You know, even if it's a bad 

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game, you guys got to step up. 
You got to put some content out 

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there. 
That's your role. 

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When there's a coaching change, 
we turn to you guys. 

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And you do not disappoint 
because this is an amazing 

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amount of content in a very 
short period of time. 

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I mean, unfortunately we do this
too often, like we're getting 

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too good at this, my hope is 
true. 

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This is the last time you hear 
from Crimson cast for 20 years 

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No, it's I want to start off. 
Like I have always so impressed 

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with what you guys do especially
in Seasons. 

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Like this a Gala, my joke, like 
the end of the creamy are, we're

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just like, alright, we're done 
podcasting for a year. 

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Like, let's take a break, you 
guys bang it out. 

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I mean, none of us are doing 
this full-time, obviously, like 

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this is a passion project but 
I'm like goddamn like these 

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tight games against Northwestern
and losses to Rutgers like the 

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last thing I would want to do is
podcast for an hour and a half. 

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And yet you guys do it you're 
always positive which I She ate.

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So my hats off to you guys. 
Thank you. 

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It is. 
It's certainly harder than 

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others. 
And I actually, you know, I 

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can't take a whole lot of credit
for this season because I was 

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out a lot this season just had 
some well, I know. 

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Yeah we moved and, you know, had
a baby and had some work thing 

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so my availability at nights 
just wasn't as much. 

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And so, I certainly tip my cap 
to Ryan and coach, and Andy, and

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all the folks that we had step 
in and fill in, I mean, you and 

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Galen filled in and so, it was 
huge because it's that schedule 

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can get a little bit daunting 
and And frankly, as we all know 

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in a season like this, there's 
just there's a little bit less 

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enthusiasm to talk about the 
team. 

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It's not as much fun. 
But, you know, this for this is 

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what we do is I you fans, as you
said, you know, it's a passion 

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thing. 
And, you know, we kind of made a

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commitment to ourselves and to 
the audience that we're going to

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do it and it's going to sound 
weird and hokey I know. 

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But I also kind of feel like we 
have a commitment to the team to

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do it because it's like if we 
were just like our not going to 

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do a show that's like a just the
tacit complete disapprove. 

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I won't abandon of the team, at 
least, that's kind of how we 

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look at it. 
You know in our thing is always 

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been, you know, no matter how 
bad it is, we still want to 

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support the guys, and that's how
we support as we come up there 

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and have a show and have a place
for people to gather after the 

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games. 
So, you know, it's one of those 

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things out, but I think that 
that kind of stuff and the way 

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that we all kind of view our 
roles in it and and I you 

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podcasting community and all 
that it's part of what makes 

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Indiana basketball special, you 
know. 

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So I I'm glad we all do it. 
I love you, man. 

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It's so positive. 
I love your outlook, like you 

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answer my question is like how 
do you kind of go through it? 

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Not that anybody cares, how we 
do the thing? 

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But you know what? 
It's I'll ask you anyway. 

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Like what is it like these last 
couple of months as you've been 

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doing it? 
Like how do you stay positive? 

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Like I know Alex bows. 
It's from one of his podcasts 

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was talking about, you know, 
It's just tough doing his five 

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takeaways because it's like the 
same five things every single 

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time, you know, how do you do 
it? 

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Because Gail and I definitely 
don't like we kind of plug in 

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and out. 
We come in we kind of Garber is 

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going to pitch for a while. 
Like you're you're doing 

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something structured and your 
base having to say the same 

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thing over and over again, and 
you stay positive. 

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Well, it's a very conscious 
effort. 

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I will say, and I actually there
were times I thought this 

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season, just speaking for 
myself, personally that I felt 

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like I lost some of that and got
really focused on the negativity

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of the play, and look in the 
play warranted it. 

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So it's a delicate balance. 
You can't just go on there and 

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say, everything's great. 
When it's, not because no one 

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wants to listen to that. 
That, but you also have to be 

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fair. 
And remember the humanity of the

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people? 
So I've always thought my 

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background with my dad being a 
coach helps with that, you know,

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because you you recognize that, 
even if a performance is 

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absolutely terrible, there was a
lot of effort that actually went

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into making that performance 
good. 

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It just didn't work out, you 
know, but that doesn't. 

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That doesn't make that effort 
meaningless. 

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It just makes it unsuccessful. 
And so, why are we here? 

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Are we here just to accumulate 
wins and losses as a fan base or

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we here to go through ups and 
downs? 

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It's together with a team that 
we support, you know, and so, 

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and I always that word support, 
I think is important and I think

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as we've done this, I've tried 
to make a conscious effort, also

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to develop some relationships 
with some parents of players on 

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the team because I think it 
helps me remember, just stay 

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grounded with like, these are 
real people. 

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You know, these are these are 
guys, with, with moms and dads 

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and, you know, and and and, and 
struggles that they're going 

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through on and off the court. 
And let's remember that. 

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That because it's not I guess I 
just always look at it. 

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Look, if you're only here for 
the wins and losses, go cheer 

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for a protein it's about more. 
I really think I feel like it's 

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about more than that. 
Now the wins and losses matter, 

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it's probably the most important
thing, but it's also the fact 

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that like, you know, we all went
to IU and these guys are we 

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didn't play basketball at IU, 
but their students, like, we 

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were in there's a certain part 
of it, where you're kind of 

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watching them, go through some 
of the similar things that you 

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did at least in terms of 
maturing and that kind of stuff,

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and let's be in this together 
and help each other work through

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it. 
So I know it's hokey and it's 

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Us. 
But that's just the mindset that

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I've always taken with it. 
And I think it's it helps us 

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maintain perspective. 
I think when perspective is 

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difficult to maintain. 
No I think it's very Zen. 

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I like it. 
But it is I mean it's it is kind

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of you know, I'm much more, the 
Ranter getting pissed but I feel

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like I'm always grounded in. 
I'm not, you know, I know your 

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your dad was a coach with my 
thing is always been like, you 

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know, in college the coaches, 
the adult, the coaches, the one 

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getting paid like to me, they're
the ones that take the 

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accountability. 
Not the nineteen eighteen year 

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old kids, who Aren't getting, 
and I think this year was a 

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really good example. 
I've talked about him a lot of 

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hate picking on him but like it 
was it's tough seeing like the 

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season Rob fennessy had because 
you see this kid who? 

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Again, he's a kid. 
We've all been there in college 

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and it's a weird time and like 
he's struggling from confidence.

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Like, I don't think he 
understands kind of why is it 

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working? 
It's not working. 

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But I've always been like, I 
don't want to sit here and just 

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rail on a 20, year old kid who's
obviously, having a rough go of 

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it. 
Like it's the coach's job to see

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that and find create a system 
that's going Make it more 

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successful but I'm with you like
that is why you know watching 

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like Victor Oladipo blossom into
who he became at IU was was 

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awesome. 
He was seeing guys come through 

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who you love? 
Like I still remember my wife. 

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Loved. 
Oh gosh. 

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I'm thinking Daniel Jones. 
It's not, it was the little 

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little point guard. 
Daniel more Daniel Moore. 

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Thank you. 
Thank you. 

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I'm getting old, I'm over 40 my 
wife anymore, but just see guys 

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like that. 
Who you you feel like you get to

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know them and I guess it brings 
us to this. 

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This is something as we look 
back at the Archie, are I want 

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to give you time to kind of 
reflect on it for our audience 

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but one thing that's been 
brought up in a lot of the 

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podcasts I've been listening to 
obviously wins and losses 

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mattered and there's you know, a
sub 500 Big, Ten record like so 

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what I'm kind of starting with 
the fluff, not the the meat of 

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it and he got fired because he 
wasn't winning enough games. 

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Yeah, that said this, what's 
kind of been going through all 

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of these podcasts is There was a
real lack of connection between 

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Archie and the fan base and a 
lot of these players in the 

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fanbase, it didn't Archie never 
handled himself in a bad manner 

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but it was very cool. 
And I remember early on, with 

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cream like he did, like the 
dance parties, like he did a 

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thing after homecoming one time.
Where like, you wash a practice,

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everyone go on the court, and 
just go meet Korean, like, get 

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on the court, and it felt very 
approachable there at the 

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beginning. 
Again, I don't think this is why

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he got fired, but I do think 
it's an interesting time as we 

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look back at this Archie era, it
felt very Disconnected. 

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I would say like it felt like 
almost like watching a pro team 

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and that it was just like a 
bunch of guys playing basketball

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not very well and I never felt 
like we got a connection to any 

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of these guys like the Romeo 
experience was kind of like and 

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I guess those are five star, 
guys. 

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I get it there in and out. 
But you know, at least felt like

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I had some kind of connection to
Eric Gordon when he was here, 

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like Romeo's, kind of in and 
out, I don't know. 

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What do you, what do you think 
about that? 

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Well, I do think it's easy to 
kind of look at that as being 

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fluff, but I'm not really. 
That it is, I think it was 

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actually a really important 
reason why it didn't work for 

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Archie Millard. 
Indiana. 

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Not, you know, not that the that
the coach has to have like this 

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specific relationship with 
Indiana fans, but you got to 

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have a relationship with Indiana
fans, you know. 

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And I think this is probably the
lesson to be learned from this 

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higher which is that Archie 
Miller checked every or most 

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basketball boxes you would want.
He had had a deep tournament 

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run, he had one Conference 
titles. 

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He had a good basketball. 
Pedigree Degree he had played 

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like, that's why most of us were
excited about the higher because

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you had all that stuff up and 
it's like this makes a lot of 

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sense. 
But yeah, I remember back to his

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first press conference and a lot
of us have spent time harkening 

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back to that first press 
conference and reflecting on it 

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because everything sounded good.
And then as you look back on it 

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for years later you realize and 
you know, I know Tony drawing. 

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You talked about this with you 
and wrote about it on his site. 

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You look back on it and so many 
of those promises are 

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unfulfilled and I One of those 
was Archie's discussion of 

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really being comfortable in the 
neighborhood and I think by that

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he was referencing kind of the 
expectations. 

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But part of that, part of those 
expectations is Galen has used 

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the phrase. 
You're almost like a religious 

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leader. 
It's ridiculous. 

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It's also kind of true and 
that's never a role that Archie 

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really felt comfortable in, you 
know, opening himself up to 

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build that relationship with 
fans but I don't think. 

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And the reason why I think that 
actually mattered for on-court 

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Success because look at, He had 
one, he could have kept his 

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distance. 
He could have had a cool 

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relationship with Indiana fans 
and we would have filled in the 

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gaps in a positive way. 
With Crimson colored glasses and

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it all would have been fine. 
But we know that we can say it 

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was different that would be 
different. 

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It wouldn't have been where, I 
think it was actually an issue 

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is that I think his inability to
build relationships with fans, 

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was actually indicative of one 
of the Fatal flaws of his 

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program at Indiana was an 
inability to develop good 

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relationships with players. 
And I think, you know, part of 

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what we saw with, you know, a 
lack of Development with, you 

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00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:33,400
know, sometimes guys playing 
hard in a game but still kind of

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missing that next level where 
it's like, wow, these guys just 

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00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:37,600
don't feel like they're totally 
bought into. 

225
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They don't feel like they're 
really enjoying what they're 

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doing. 
They don't feel like they really

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understand what their roles are.
They they seem disconnected. 

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Part of that I think is being 
disconnected from the coach, you

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00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:50,100
know. 
And I think and and you know 

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00:10:50,108 --> 00:10:52,000
that's something that I've heard
from from a lot of people I was 

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00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,400
I'm not there in the locker room
and you know, that kind of 

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stuff. 
We don't know that but when you 

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hear, It enough, you know, that 
there was a lack of relationship

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00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:01,700
building between head coach and 
player, that's a red flag. 

235
00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:04,800
And I think that makes it hard 
for the head coach to really 

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understand his players and get 
the most out of them. 

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00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:09,800
And then it makes it hard for 
the coach to coach you hard. 

238
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You know, what a big deal was 
made about when Tom Izzo like 

239
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,000
yelled at, Aaron Henry, you 
know? 

240
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,000
And then screamed at him in a 
game, that's like, oh my God, 

241
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,900
what is Tom Izzo doing, it's 
like anybody who really knew 

242
00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:22,400
what was going on. 
It's like, all right, you know, 

243
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,300
Tom Izzo has a great 
relationship with that kid and 

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00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:25,600
he's probably going to respond 
to it. 

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00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,800
He knows the guy can Take that. 
So let's just let some time play

246
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,400
out, what's happened, Aaron? 
Henry has become awesome. 

247
00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:33,200
You know? 
And that's that to me is the 

248
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,400
difference. 
Like, I don't think we were ever

249
00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:38,900
ever able to see that and the 
only thing that really makes 

250
00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:40,900
sense to me for why that didn't 
happen is. 

251
00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:42,900
I'm just not sure that the 
relationships were there. 

252
00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:46,600
And so the relationship with fan
base, that's one thing, it 

253
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,400
matters, but it doesn't 
contribute to wins and losses. 

254
00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:51,900
But I think some of those, some 
of those relationships with 

255
00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:54,600
players as we start to just 
wonder like man, why didn't guys

256
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,400
develop, why did we see some of 
the things that we do? 

257
00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:59,400
Do I think that's one of the 
things that you look at? 

258
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,900
And the irony of it is, I 
remember when Archie was hired, 

259
00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:03,900
he did an interview with 
somebody, you know, because he 

260
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:06,300
actually made the rounds and 
doing podcast when he was hired 

261
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,100
not a lot of local podcast. 
But National podcast, I was 

262
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,300
always a pet peeve of mine for 
obvious reasons but you know, 

263
00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:15,700
someone asked him. 
What, what was what did you 

264
00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:17,900
really take from Thad Matta? 
You know coaching under Thad 

265
00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:19,600
Matta and he talked about how 
the biggest thing he learned 

266
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,900
from Thad. 
Matta was the importance of 

267
00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,200
relationships and sometimes you 
got to take it off the 

268
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,100
basketball court and build close
relationships with players. 

269
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,400
Thinking, then this guy gets it 
out, you know, I was so excited 

270
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,500
to hear him say that but it 
doesn't, you know, it doesn't 

271
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:36,900
seem like that's actually what 
happened in in the Indiana, you 

272
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:38,800
know, in his four years in 
Indiana, and that's 

273
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,300
disappointing. 
But also, I think it helps to 

274
00:12:41,300 --> 00:12:45,600
fill in the gaps for why the guy
checked all the boxes seem to 

275
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,300
have all the basketball Acumen 
and some of those things, Why 

276
00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,300
didn't it? 
Work so much of coaching comes 

277
00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:52,700
down to relationships in 
Psychology and I'm just not sure

278
00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:54,400
that he was able to get that 
part of it, right? 

279
00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:57,600
No, I agree and it's something. 
Thing that we've talked about 

280
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,100
kind of ad nauseam this year, 
but this, it's just been odd. 

281
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:04,400
Watching a team have such little
confidence and you could see it 

282
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,200
like the Rutgers games are 
perfect examples. 

283
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,800
Where, you know, we went on a 
little, the game in the Big Ten 

284
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,600
Tournament, you know, we went on
a run, we get up. 

285
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,600
I like I don't know, six or 
seven points and we're like, all

286
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,100
right the whole team's like all 
right. 

287
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:18,200
Sweet. 
And kind of like, alright, we're

288
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,700
done. 
And you saw Rutgers like they 

289
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:22,900
just kind of called timeout, 
like the brought them back 

290
00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:24,200
together. 
It's like, they come back out to

291
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,000
the car. 
We took a punch. 

292
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,400
We're going to take it back and 
then Rucker. 

293
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:28,800
Goes on a run and then it's like
we're done. 

294
00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:32,000
It's like we just every time a 
team would go on a run against 

295
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,900
us. 
We would just crumble and it 

296
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:37,400
just felt like this team, had a 
confidence crisis and it never 

297
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,100
felt like Archie. 
Could just have that moment 

298
00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:41,500
where he could either yell at 
him or he just couldn't push the

299
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:43,400
right buttons and maybe he 
didn't find the buttons. 

300
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,000
But you'd see it both in micro 
and macro like in games it would

301
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,800
just you kind of see them just 
crumble and like I don't know 

302
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,500
what to do and kind of looks so 
timid and unsure of what to do 

303
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:58,000
and, you know, make odd Mistakes
like you know a minute and a 

304
00:13:58,008 --> 00:14:00,400
half to go or down by for their 
walking, the ball up and 

305
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,500
Archie's like bring, you know 
yelling to bring it up faster. 

306
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:05,700
It's like again I these guys 
know how to play basketball like

307
00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,300
they understand the time on the 
clock but they're making all the

308
00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:12,400
wrong decisions that you see in 
the macro where, you know, once 

309
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,000
they got on a losing streak, 
they would just get on a losing 

310
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,100
streak and they lose four or 
five in a row and it's like they

311
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:19,400
would just be rolling downhill 
the wrong way. 

312
00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:25,300
And yeah, I mean it's hard and 
you you look at the shooting 

313
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:28,800
numbers like, Who could shoot in
high school. 

314
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,100
Then come here and they can't 
shoot, and they can't shoot free

315
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:33,000
throws. 
And that is that is just all 

316
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,600
mental. 
Like I quoted all the time. 

317
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,500
I love my dad always being like,
why don't they just practice 

318
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:39,800
free throws? 
Like I I'm sure hard. 

319
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,900
She's doing that and I'm sure 
the kids are doing it. 

320
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:45,400
Like I'm sure they want to shoot
and they want to shoot better, 

321
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,400
but there's something missing 
there. 

322
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,600
And yeah, it kind of has to come
down to mental because it's 

323
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,700
either that or the other 
explanation is like, they're 

324
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:55,100
just not trying or Archie's not 
doing anything, which I don't 

325
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:57,500
think, is the case I think, 
Yeah, I think we've all said, 

326
00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,000
like, our chinos basketball. 
I think we all kind of agree. 

327
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,900
We're we're, I'm expecting 
Archie to get another job and be

328
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:07,500
successful somewhere else. 
Like it just I think he'll take 

329
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:10,900
the lessons here but maybe it 
was just like these connections 

330
00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,800
and confidence is kind of what 
just was never able to get 

331
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,300
anybody going and look, you 
know, Dustin to P Rach laid out 

332
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,400
in the podcast that he did some 
of the, some of the bad luck 

333
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,800
that Archie dealt with. 
And there was some of that there

334
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,700
were untimely injuries and you 
know, there were some different 

335
00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:28,800
things that happen there. 
That's not that doesn't explain 

336
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,800
everything. 
Nor does it change the calculus 

337
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,400
of why? 
He needed to go. 

338
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:35,100
But it does explain some of it. 
I think. 

339
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,000
Also some of it was just poor 
evaluations on the recruiting 

340
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,900
Trail, you know? 
I mean I mean to cut you off but

341
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:43,900
that's my job. 
But on the bad luck, on the bad 

342
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:47,000
luck piece know, I've said this 
before, like it's very much on 

343
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,400
the margins. 
If you just look through his 

344
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,600
years, you know, 2018, they had 
a four-game losing streak in the

345
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,900
end of the season, a three-game 
losing streak like you win one 

346
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:58,600
game in each of those streaks. 
It's your you're above 500, the 

347
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,500
conference, you're probably in 
the tournament, your first year,

348
00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:02,400
you know, 20 and the bad luck 
and the bad luck. 

349
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:03,700
Doesn't just come from the 
losing. 

350
00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:05,700
It comes from, they had to play 
some of those games without key 

351
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:09,200
players, you know? 
And, and that, that's kind of 

352
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,700
where that where the bad luck 
comes in. 

353
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,900
You know, you recruit a guy like
Jerome Hunter, who was a really 

354
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:18,200
highly rated recruit and his, 
you know, his entire career has 

355
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,600
kind of been this up-and-down 
thing and dealt with a big 

356
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,500
health issue. 
So you know, should you've been 

357
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:23,800
able to suss that out and 
recruiting? 

358
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,700
I don't know probably not but 
you know, there were There 

359
00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:30,700
instances of you, take the DU 
musée Anderson recruitment. 

360
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:33,600
For example, look, I was excited
about that when it happened, the

361
00:16:33,608 --> 00:16:36,100
guy score 2,000 points in South 
Bend he was known as a good 

362
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:37,600
shooter. 
We needed that seemed like the 

363
00:16:37,608 --> 00:16:40,600
kind of, you know, tall guy who 
could be, you know, six seven, 

364
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,000
you know, long seemed like he 
could be taught how to play in 

365
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,600
the pack line defense, it just 
didn't work and so on the one 

366
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,100
hand, you can look back at that 
and say, well, this guy had 

367
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:52,400
offers from other people. 
He was a top 100 recruit. 

368
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,500
You can't really fault Archie 
for recruiting him. 

369
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,800
But yeah, you kind of can 
because you don't just get cover

370
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,000
because a guy is ranked a 
certain place as a recruit, you 

371
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,099
know, Wisconsin got dmytryk 
Trice, as an example. 

372
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,300
He was like the 300 or 400 rated
recruit, right? 

373
00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:11,300
Well, they saw something in him 
developed him, he fit the 

374
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:13,400
system. 
He was a good recruit, you know,

375
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,800
just because you take a guy in 
the top 100, if it doesn't work 

376
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,500
out, you do have to allow for 
some of it you know, not all 

377
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,099
guys are going to work but you 
can't just make a blanket 

378
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:24,400
statement like well the guy was 
a top 100 in state recruit so 

379
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,400
you had to take him. 
No you had to take. 

380
00:17:26,408 --> 00:17:28,500
Him if he's the right fit and 
you had a vision for his 

381
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:31,000
development and it works out, 
you know, if you don't that is 

382
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,200
kind of the coach's job to 
evaluate independent of rankings

383
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,700
and all the other stuff. 
Is this guy going to fit is the 

384
00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:40,100
if it with me from a personality
standpoint, does he fit our 

385
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:41,900
culture? 
Is he going to be able to 

386
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:43,600
develop? 
And again you give some 

387
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,000
allowance for mrs. 
Here there. 

388
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,300
But I think there were too many 
of those in the Archie Miller 

389
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:52,100
are aware whether it was a 
misidentification of the talent 

390
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:55,100
on the front end or an inability
to develop it on the back end 

391
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:59,400
there was too much Much 
disconnect there and again, X's 

392
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,800
and O's are important. 
All the other stuff is 

393
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,400
important. 
There is maybe no more important

394
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,800
job for a college basketball, 
coach than the players that you 

395
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,800
hand-select to come into your 
program and then being able to 

396
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,200
develop them to maximize what 
they can do, which again, kind 

397
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,000
of comes back to the 
relationship part of it. 

398
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800
And so, you know, that's the 
stuff that look and look, you 

399
00:18:15,808 --> 00:18:18,600
know, part of that may have been
that, you know, some of the 

400
00:18:18,608 --> 00:18:21,100
assistance on Archie's first 
staff weren't helping them out 

401
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:24,100
very much and we're giving them 
some bad evaluations, you know? 

402
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:26,900
But you're the head coach and 
you hired those guys And the 

403
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:30,700
buck ultimately stops with you. 
So it is I think it is 

404
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:33,500
interesting parsing some of this
stuff and trying to figure out 

405
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:36,000
what happened. 
Ultimately it all ends up coming

406
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,800
to Archie's doorstep and you end
up with a certain record after 

407
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,500
four years and however, whatever
the explanation is the record 

408
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:45,300
wasn't good. 
The trajectory moving forward, 

409
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:48,400
wasn't good. 
You know, so Scott Dawson's 

410
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,500
hand. 
I mean they're basically tied at

411
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:53,400
that point assuming that you 
have a good alternative in mind,

412
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:55,000
you know, he did what he had to 
do. 

413
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,700
Ya know. 
And, you know, it's all on the 

414
00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,000
margins like one or two wins 
during any of these losing 

415
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,300
streaks in his four years. 
They probably, it's good enough 

416
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,400
to get going. 
I would say the other piece of 

417
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,800
not bad luck but just tough luck
is you know, the the year you 

418
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,400
know, Archie gets three in a 
row. 

419
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,900
Indiana mr. 
Basketballs and they you know 

420
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:15,900
Jackson Davis has been 
fantastic. 

421
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:19,600
Romeo was I was really good at 
what he did but you didn't have 

422
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,500
one of those transformational 
you like, Zach Randolph, or Greg

423
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:26,700
Oden, or are Gordon like just an
absolute superstud that comes 

424
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:29,400
around. 
Like Archie, just kind of missed

425
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,100
the window of of having like one
of those guys be in Indiana. 

426
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:33,900
Mr. Basketball while he was 
getting Indiana. 

427
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:35,500
Mr. Bass was kind of like 
getting the number one pick in 

428
00:19:35,508 --> 00:19:39,200
the NBA like the sixth 76ers. 
The process may have worked 

429
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,700
better. 
If Tim Duncan was a first-round 

430
00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:42,400
pick because I posed like 
Nerlens Noel. 

431
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,900
So I think there's some of that 
but I also like when you take A 

432
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:49,900
big step out. 
I think that mean obviously the 

433
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:51,800
right move was made. 
I was calling for it. 

434
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:55,300
But you know, you look at like 
when it works it works. 

435
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,000
And like what do you see? 
What Brad Underwood is doing it?

436
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,300
Illinois. 
It's kind of like, you know, 

437
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,200
when you see it, you know, it 
it's like you don't even have to

438
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,500
dig into the numbers like, 
alright that's working like he's

439
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,100
got something Hamid over there, 
you know, Holtman at Ohio State 

440
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:09,000
and I truly believe the wheels 
were in motion, but I think that

441
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,400
having those two teams play in 
the Big Ten championship game 

442
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,400
and being like, hey those two 
coaches were hired the exact 

443
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,900
same time as Archie. 
E and look where these two 

444
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,700
programs are on page to be 
single-digit, seeds in the 

445
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,100
tournament. 
They're both playing in the Big 

446
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:26,200
Ten Tournament final and Rutgers
to because pikul was hired 

447
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,000
around that time to you know 
it's a great one workers house 

448
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000
just three times. 
I think that that's hard to look

449
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,200
at that and be like, all right 
well you know but we're good 

450
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,000
enough to you know we got to 
keep our coach because of echo 

451
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,500
because of 18 different reasons.
Why it's like in the end is kind

452
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,900
of like hey man stuff shit. 
You make a lot of money and 

453
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:45,300
there are everyone's got 
injuries. 

454
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:48,000
Everyone's got recruiting this 
as a Your job is to how do you 

455
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,600
smooth the edges and get things 
moving in the right direction. 

456
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,400
So yeah one last thing that I 
want to that I want to add on 

457
00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:01,200
this on you know in the Archie 
era is it look personally I was 

458
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,900
out after the first Purdue game 
this year that was like that was

459
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:06,200
like my personal breaking point.
You know you lose the Purdue 

460
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,000
again at home kind of 
non-competitive that was like my

461
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,100
point of no return I've been 
questioning it up to than that 

462
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:16,400
was my point of no return but 
you know as I reflect on it you 

463
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,200
know Oh, I think I'm always 
going to have, it'll be 

464
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,800
interesting to see what Archie 
does from here. 

465
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,000
And I'll never like wonder if 
Archie was the right fit long 

466
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,400
term in Indiana, we saw four 
years. 

467
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,500
He wasn't there's always going 
to be this little small part of 

468
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:30,600
me. 
You know, the small part of me 

469
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,700
that that supported our chief 
for several years and was 

470
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:36,300
interested in how his system 
would adapt to the Big Ten and, 

471
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:39,600
and work, it Indiana that 
wonders. 

472
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,300
I wonder what this would have 
looked like if we actually got 

473
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:45,800
to see Archie Miller basketball,
because when you look back on 

474
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,500
his four years at it, Anna the 
frustration and I think 

475
00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:51,000
especially the frustration for 
people who really supported him 

476
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,900
in the beginning is you know 
those first couple years things 

477
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:56,200
aren't going well, but it's like
okay but you look back at his 

478
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,500
team's at Dayton once he builds 
that this is going to work 

479
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:01,900
because they played with Pace, 
they shot the 3-pointer. 

480
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:04,000
Well, they were guard driven 
teams. 

481
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,400
Like they played a more modern 
style of basketball. 

482
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:09,300
It was tough, it was gritty but 
it was combined with good 

483
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:12,300
defense, which all right, I 
don't know if this system is 

484
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:15,800
really up for modern basketball,
but it's working over at 

485
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,800
Virginia and maybe if we rallied
at it, it can really work here 

486
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:23,000
and we just never saw it and I'm
especially disappointed by how 

487
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,900
we didn't see it on the 
offensive end. 

488
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:27,600
And, you know, you look at those
date and teams, they played a 

489
00:22:27,608 --> 00:22:29,900
lot of outside in and here at 
Indiana. 

490
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:34,900
He had these for rosters where 
you looked at it and his most 

491
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:37,100
the player on his roster that 
had the best combination of 

492
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:39,200
skill and experience. 
Every single year was a big guy 

493
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,700
and so he made this choice to 
kind of invert his offense play,

494
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:48,900
inside-out, and To like this 
really extreme degree, where it 

495
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:52,200
always felt like, the guards 
felt hamstrung, like they had to

496
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,300
get the ball inside and could 
never get into their own Rhythm.

497
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:57,700
You know, I think part of the 
shooting issues that we saw was 

498
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:00,800
guards who were almost like 
playing the old Hoosier style 

499
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,400
where it's like four passes 
before shot. 

500
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,200
You've got to get the ball 
inside before shot and we became

501
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,900
the kings of passing up a good 
shot early in the shot clock to 

502
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:10,400
get a worse. 
One near the end of it because 

503
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,000
especially once team started 
doubling down and we never were 

504
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,000
able to adjust. 
And I just, I wonder You know, 

505
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,800
it always felt like a program 
that was out of its comfort zone

506
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,600
and disconnected. 
And I wonder if that just 

507
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,900
trickled down from the top where
Archie is, suddenly coaching 

508
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,300
this, this system where he's 
going inside out and he'd been a

509
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:31,000
coach at Dayton, that was so 
much more guard oriented. 

510
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,100
And it just, it just always felt
disconnected. 

511
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:37,000
And it's almost like he didn't 
necessarily know, or at least, 

512
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,000
he didn't show the ability to 
really adjust, or to get the 

513
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,200
guards playing in a comfortable 
way in the system, you know, and

514
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,300
so, and I think back to 
McKinley, right, Who wanted to 

515
00:23:47,308 --> 00:23:50,600
come with Archie when he had him
committed to Dayton, wanted to 

516
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,800
come with Archie. 
You know, we had all the roster 

517
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,800
issues the beginning, so he 
wasn't able to he goes to 

518
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,800
Colorado, becomes one of the 
best for your point, guards in 

519
00:23:56,808 --> 00:23:58,600
the country. 
How does that change it? 

520
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,000
You know, again, it doesn't mean
that it would have changed 

521
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,900
everything. 
I just kind of remain curious, 

522
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:05,100
the part of me the first two 
years. 

523
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:07,800
That was excited about Archie. 
Remains curious about what that 

524
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,300
might have looked like, I don't 
know, but it'll always just kind

525
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:13,300
of be a little, kind of, be a 
lingering wonder. 

526
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,900
And I'm sure that that lingering
wonder will. 

527
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,200
Well, immediately dissipate very
much once we have a new coach, 

528
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,300
but as we kind of sit here in 
the fog of the end of his era, 

529
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,400
that's the one thing that I 
wonder because there was a real 

530
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,100
reason to be excited about him 
and it's disappointing that we 

531
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,100
never saw that on the court. 
No, I agree. 

532
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:33,000
And I you know, the way that I 
look at it too that I think is 

533
00:24:33,008 --> 00:24:35,400
an interesting. 
Just a cautionary tale as well. 

534
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,600
Is, you know, I've often 
wondered this. 

535
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,300
I've not said this out loud 
before. 

536
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,900
I wonder if Archie, didn't want 
to get Romeo. 

537
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:48,900
And what I mean by that is, You 
know, that was very early in his

538
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:52,600
spot that was a high-profile 
like that was Romeo like the 

539
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,300
Indiana guy, but it's like a 
five-star. 

540
00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:58,500
It's like we pinned all of our 
hopes on that and it was so 

541
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:01,100
early in his career. 
You know, an Archie had been 

542
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:03,600
used to building kind of with 
guys off the periphery or guys 

543
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,900
who were two or three stars 
guys, with something to prove, 

544
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,900
we all know a five-star like 
Romeo is a different kind of guy

545
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,200
to coach. 
And it always felt like, from 

546
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,200
that point on Archie, didn't 
quite know how and again, he 

547
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,700
knows more than I do, but the 
way the offense ran was kind of 

548
00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:18,000
like All right. 
Well, I have to run everything 

549
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600
through Romeo and Romeo is 
getting 30% of possessions and 

550
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,000
it became Romeo and Juliet on 
Morgan and then same thing with 

551
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,900
Tres Jackson Davis. 
Like all right, well I got this 

552
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,100
guy and so now I got to run 
everything through him and I do 

553
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:34,300
wonder if you know the the thing
that crean kind of got lucky 

554
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,700
with his, he got a lot of those 
kind of great building block 

555
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:39,300
pieces, like he got Jordan 
holes. 

556
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,200
He got Christian Wofford, he got
Maurice Creek for while he was 

557
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,800
here and healthy. 
We kind of built the team and 

558
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,600
then it's like, now, I'm going 
to Zeller into this and now you 

559
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,600
got all these extra pieces and 
everyone who their Partners like

560
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,200
I'm gonna throw and then Oladipo
turns into him, but it's like 

561
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,500
that team was built as a 
complete team you know? 

562
00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:00,800
And Archie never really got that
chance because a year or two. 

563
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,500
And again I'm not trying to 
defend them or say it's his 

564
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:05,200
fault but you're too. 
It's like you got Romeo and that

565
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,300
you can't run an offense. 
That Romeo is not getting the 

566
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:08,600
ball. 
That's almost it looked like 

567
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,600
Archie didn't quite know how to 
how do I run my offense and how 

568
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,000
do I make a five-star guy? 
Happy? 

569
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,900
I'm just going to make him super
happy and what the irony of all 

570
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,200
of it. 
As I've said, Many times is by 

571
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:21,800
pumping the ball into Jackson, 
Davis this year and just turning

572
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,600
him into a post guy with no 
outside moves, you've diminished

573
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,400
his draft stock. 
You've done the worst thing you 

574
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,200
made your offense stale. 
You've you've used you given him

575
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,700
great usage rate but you've 
diminish his draft stock like I 

576
00:26:35,708 --> 00:26:38,000
hate to say it Jackson Davis 
look. 

577
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,100
So this is probably like well 
shit. 

578
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:41,600
I should've just gone to like 
Kentucky caught lap lobs for a 

579
00:26:41,608 --> 00:26:43,500
year. 
None of these things of my game 

580
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,700
would be noticed and I'd be in 
the NBA right now to be a 

581
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,200
first-round pick. 
It's like that's the weird irony

582
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,000
of Archie, as I'm, not sure, he 
knew had a coach five stars, but

583
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,700
he ended up creating an offense 
that featured them so much, that

584
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:58,300
it kind of diminished both Romeo
and Trace Jackson Davis has NBA 

585
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:00,100
stock. 
Yeah. 

586
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,600
I mean, that's interesting. 
You know, I think him 

587
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,800
force-feeding Trace to the 
extent that he did is what made 

588
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,900
trace an All-American. 
You know, like like Trace 

589
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:10,500
Jackson Davis is a good talented
player. 

590
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,200
I like Tres a lot. 
He did a lot as a freshman and a

591
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,600
sophomore, you can tell that 
there's going to be a but coming

592
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:17,000
here. 
Here. 

593
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,500
But, you know, I think it's fair
to say that on a really good 

594
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,600
Indiana team. 
Trace Jackson. 

595
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,800
Davis is a third option, you 
know, he's just he's a limited 

596
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,200
player so on a really good team.
He's probably your third option 

597
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,100
on a really mediocre Indiana 
team. 

598
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:32,500
He was the best player that you 
ran everything through and he 

599
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:36,700
was able to accumulate numbers, 
but not at a real efficient rate

600
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:38,600
because he just doesn't have the
breadth of skills. 

601
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,500
Now if he stayed for a couple of
years and continued to develop 

602
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:42,100
his skills, maybe he becomes 
that guy. 

603
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,400
But this just goes back to our 
conversation of you know, the 

604
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,100
roster because The best player 
on this roster, you know, so I 

605
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:50,900
don't think you need to 
force-feed him quite as much as 

606
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:53,000
we did and that might have been 
a problem with getting the 

607
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,500
guards going. 
And I think that's why things 

608
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:58,100
really took a downturn when 
Armand Franklin left, because he

609
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:00,200
was the other guy that could 
really handle a higher usage 

610
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,300
rate. 
And once he got hurt, now, you 

611
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:04,700
really didn't have any other 
place to turn, but to your point

612
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:06,600
about Romeo and we can probably 
make this. 

613
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,600
The last point on Archie is I do
agree? 

614
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:15,800
Like, I think in hindsight, it 
does, you know what you said? 

615
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,800
Is kind of true like it. 
It does kind of feel like he 

616
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,800
didn't quite know how to handle 
that situation. 

617
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:22,300
And that's just further proof 
that it's not, right? 

618
00:28:22,300 --> 00:28:27,100
Because if you can't at any 
point in your tenure, you know, 

619
00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:29,300
assimilate one of the best high 
school basketball players in 

620
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:31,900
Indiana into what you're doing 
and make it successful. 

621
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:35,000
You shouldn't be the coach at 
Indiana, you know? 

622
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,800
Because like there's going to be
Romeo's that come around and you

623
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,800
need to be able to land them as 
recruits and you need to be able

624
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,100
to incorporate them into a 
winning system of basketball. 

625
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:48,900
And if you can't do that, You 
know with maybe one exception 

626
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:52,500
here, there you just you're not 
the right guy and so I think our

627
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:56,300
cheese going to succeed much 
better at a lower level school 

628
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:59,300
where the spotlight isn't as 
bright and where you're right, 

629
00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:03,000
he's recruiting more hunger. 
Not that our guys aren't hungry 

630
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,200
but there is you know, the guys 
that kind of have a chip on 

631
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,700
their shoulder their overlooked 
and the he might be at that just

632
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:12,300
might might relate better 
because I think he's got a 

633
00:29:12,308 --> 00:29:15,700
pretty narrow subset of players 
that he relates with, because he

634
00:29:15,708 --> 00:29:16,700
doesn't seem like a great 
relationship. 

635
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,600
A ship Builder. 
But he was kind of a overlooked 

636
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,900
chip on your shoulder, kind of 
guy, and he probably relates 

637
00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:24,200
really, well, with that. 
Type of guy, does he relate 

638
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,800
really well with the guy who's, 
you know, his, remember, his 

639
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,400
brother. 
Sean was like, this highly rated

640
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,800
recruit. 
It was like doing dribbling 

641
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,100
drills on late night, TV shows 
and stuff, you know, so he kind 

642
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:35,900
of had more attention. 
Maybe it doesn't. 

643
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:38,400
Maybe it makes more sense that 
he is related better with higher

644
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,300
rated recruits and done. 
Better at Arizona that are 

645
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:42,500
cheated here. 
We're getting into too much pop 

646
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:44,900
psychology here. 
Yeah, but it, but that kind of 

647
00:29:44,908 --> 00:29:47,900
stuff is interesting because 
whether Right, or wrong on that 

648
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:51,700
and I have no idea that stuff 
does actually matter, you know? 

649
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:55,200
And so, and that just seems like
part of it, that, that Archie 

650
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,600
was never quite able to get. 
And I hope he's able to get it 

651
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,100
at the next spot because he's a 
good coach. 

652
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:01,300
And I think he'll succeed. 
He just wasn't the right coach 

653
00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:03,000
for Indiana. 
Yeah, I agree. 

654
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:04,900
The last thing I'll say I'm Tres
Jackson. 

655
00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:08,200
Davis is just I agree. 
He's limited but I do wonder if 

656
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,800
he's limited because of the 
scheme. 

657
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,100
I mean the fact that he was here
two years and never took a 

658
00:30:12,108 --> 00:30:14,700
three-point shot, some of that's
on him, but some of that is 

659
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:16,700
obviously the way they're 
playing. 

660
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,500
Dude, I've seen the way kids 
play basketball the way NBA 

661
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,500
players play basketball, 
everyone loves jacking up, 

662
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:23,000
threes. 
So I have a really hard time 

663
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,200
believing that race doesn't want
to jack a couple up. 

664
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,400
So I think it's possibly scheme 
as well, but let's I think we 

665
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,400
can put that to bed. 
You know, farewell Archie. 

666
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,100
It's been fun. 
You know, now we're moving 

667
00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:37,500
forward. 
Hasn't been fun. 

668
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,100
Scott. 
Not really no. 

669
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,700
I mean, because you mentioned, 
you mentioned your, your moment 

670
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:47,000
this year, I will say and if you
go back and listen Of the 

671
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,200
podcast, you know, 2019 during 
that Romeo Season where we lost 

672
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,400
like 11 of 12 games. 
That's where I first. 

673
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,100
Got the not like, we got to fire
him, but the first twinge of 

674
00:30:57,100 --> 00:30:58,200
like, something's not right 
here. 

675
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,100
Like this, is this a massive 
disappointment this year? 

676
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:04,700
Like, the lights are bright. 
Everyone's fired up about Romeo.

677
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,800
You get just boat raced by Duke.
It's like, okay, Duke is good, 

678
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,900
but then you just, you just fall
apart in the middle of the Big 

679
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,500
Ten season. 
Like this is not good. 

680
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:16,700
And I never, I never gained my 
confidence back. 

681
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,800
And that was always, my problem 
is, I kept on coming back to 

682
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,600
that year. 
There was injuries Romeo's for I

683
00:31:21,608 --> 00:31:25,300
guess there's a lot of stuff but
it's like you underperform so 

684
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:28,300
much that year that I was never 
able to get back. 

685
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:30,500
And then just the idea of like 
well hey we're going to make an 

686
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:32,600
11 seed this year. 
I was always like, well, but 

687
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,500
your it's math. 
Like if you're -5 you don't just

688
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:37,500
get to add 3 and be like, all 
right, we're good. 

689
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:41,300
Like you need to add 10, like 
you got to do way above and now 

690
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:43,700
we're at even and now we're 
going to go up from there. 

691
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,400
That was always my problem. 
So no, it wasn't fun. 

692
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,200
It was You know, we're going to 
and what's interesting? 

693
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,000
We're gonna look back and this 
is going to be kind of a weird 

694
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,500
blip in history like where we go
from here. 

695
00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:57,400
Hopefully it's going to be 
gentle so maybe it's not but 

696
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,900
this is going to be kind of a as
I've said many times like I 

697
00:32:00,908 --> 00:32:03,800
don't know what the highlight of
this era is but at least with 

698
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,900
the Creed are, it's like all 
right like that was that was 

699
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,300
like doing speed like that was 
fun. 

700
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,700
Like we I like I got track 
marks. 

701
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:13,300
I got a really good time. 
Like I woke up a couple couple 

702
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:14,900
Seasons. 
I Woke up had no idea what 

703
00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:17,600
happened the year before. 
Like nothing happened. 

704
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,100
Like it was, it was crazy manic,
you know. 

705
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,100
Yeah. 
The the time Green Arrow was a 

706
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:23,800
meth in the arch area was 
NyQuil. 

707
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,800
Yeah, I know exactly. 
And you Davis at least you had a

708
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,200
couple highs. 
It's like you're coming off. 

709
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,200
The like every every other area 
has like something. 

710
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,000
You can talk about the our chair
is like yeah. 

711
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Like I don't know. 
So Dolson makes this move and 

712
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,800
the breaking news here on 
Crimson cast, you haven't heard 

713
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Dolson bought out Archie. 
Miller got the money that the 

714
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,600
sequence of events is 
interesting, but we kind of hash

715
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,900
That out. 
I'm very happy with what Dolson 

716
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:53,100
is doing. 
I'm curious to get your take, 

717
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,400
but I will also say that I've 
said this a bunch of times, the 

718
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,800
way that things are happening in
the way that Dolson is doing 

719
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,100
this. 
That's what I continue to come 

720
00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:04,100
back to it. 
To me, it Narrows the number of 

721
00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:07,500
candidates to a very small 
number of people because you 

722
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:11,600
just don't if your dolphin in my
mind, you don't act this way, 

723
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,300
unless you feel like you're got 
somebody great in the hopper, 

724
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:17,400
which we'll talk about. 
And you also, Don't just act 

725
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,000
this confident. 
If you're going to do this, to 

726
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,700
get another mid-major coach kind
of like Archie. 

727
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:24,500
Like you would definitely slow 
play your hand a little bit 

728
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,700
more. 
Dolson is playing this like he's

729
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:29,900
got pocket aces I mean he's just
like dude I got pocket aces, I'm

730
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:31,300
all-in. 
Bring it. 

731
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,800
I'm so excited about the Scott 
Dolson era. 

732
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:38,700
I think, you know, I think Fred 
glass did a wonderful job of 

733
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:45,000
rebuilding the foundation and 
you know, love his focus on, you

734
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,900
know, student athletes and 
Mental health and, you know, 

735
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:53,100
kind of putting them first in a 
sense, the, the facilities 

736
00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:55,200
upgrades, like all the things 
that happened, right? 

737
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,300
Like it really felt like things 
were decaying in a lot of ways 

738
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:01,600
and it felt like Fred glass, 
like didn't just put Band-Aids 

739
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,200
on it, but kind of rebuilt, a 
lot of things during his era. 

740
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:06,700
You know, that's why we're 
seeing so much success and some 

741
00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:09,500
of the other sports, you know, 
but it's still kind of felt 

742
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:12,300
like, all right, you know, we 
kind of rebuilt things, but this

743
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:16,100
is still kind of like the old 
Indiana, you know, and we've 

744
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:18,300
rebuilt thing. 
Cause we're back to like being, 

745
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:19,900
you know. 
Okay. 

746
00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:23,100
But now it's like Scott Dolson 
is taken over and and basically 

747
00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,300
said, boys, we're stepping up to
the plate. 

748
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:27,199
Like we are. 
It's like he's left, kind of 

749
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,400
the, the green room and is like 
he's going into the big boy room

750
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,400
right now, you know? 
And the Tom Allen extension was 

751
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,400
the first step in that. 
I mean that is a that's a that's

752
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,199
a that's the move that a 
big-time program makes you know 

753
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,300
where it's like. 
We believe in this guy for glass

754
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:45,600
made a great decision to hire 
him as the coach from people 

755
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,199
disagreed with it. 
Scott, Dolson comes in and is 

756
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,000
like I'm doubling down. 
This is our guy. 

757
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,600
We're going to commit to him and
we're going to let everybody 

758
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:52,699
know that we're committing to 
him. 

759
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,300
That's what a big-time program 
does. 

760
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:57,100
It's not what Indiana has done 
and I think it's the same thing 

761
00:34:57,100 --> 00:35:00,900
here with this higher, or we 
don't know the higher yet, but 

762
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:02,600
at least with this move with 
Archie, right? 

763
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,200
Which is look, I could Keep him.
There's an argument to keep him,

764
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,700
right? 
It's a pandemic. 

765
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,700
There's lots of different issues
you had more cover this issue. 

766
00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:14,400
A block ever had. 
Like what would have been the? 

767
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,700
You had so much cover to do what
I you normally does. 

768
00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:21,500
Yes, he could have. 
And instead, he said, you know 

769
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:26,100
what, like Penn State would have
kept our Chi, you know, like 

770
00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:28,300
that's that's the move that a 
program with Penn State's 

771
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:31,800
basketball expectations would 
have done, you know, but this is

772
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,800
Indiana. 
So we've got to make a move and 

773
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,800
I think you're right. 
Part of that is having the plan 

774
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,000
in place beforehand and, you 
know, kind of having a very 

775
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,700
short list of people that you 
are going to do everything to 

776
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:47,500
get. 
Like I don't know how this hires

777
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:49,700
going to go. 
I really don't or who you know 

778
00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:51,200
or who we're going to end up 
with. 

779
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,000
But I'm going to be shocked, 
surprised I'm going to be 

780
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,100
surprised, if it's not someone 
that we are really, really 

781
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:02,500
excited about. 
And if it's not someone that 

782
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:04,100
were really, really excited 
about. 

783
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,500
I'm not going to be wondering. 
You know, did we lowball them? 

784
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:09,000
Like, is it this that of the 
other? 

785
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,900
Like I'm going to feel pretty 
good that we took our best shot 

786
00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:15,200
and if the guys that we're going
after saying, no, I'm not going 

787
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,200
to be like, you know what the 
hell Dolson I'm going to be 

788
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:19,200
like. 
Alright. 

789
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,700
Well let's figure out why they 
said. 

790
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:22,700
No, but man, we gave it our best
shot. 

791
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,200
Apparently, there was something 
about it. 

792
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,900
That didn't work. 
Let's figure it out like a. 

793
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,200
I'm not going to feel like a 
sense of regret like we did it 

794
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,800
wrong. 
I have a lot of faith in the 

795
00:36:30,808 --> 00:36:33,900
process that he's going through 
here and I think it's going to 

796
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:35,600
turn out in a really, really 
positive. 

797
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:39,900
Of way. 
Yeah so is a guy who you know 

798
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,400
there's an NBA coach that we 
haven't talked about yet so 

799
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:45,100
we'll bring it up now. 
Like I think you know Erik 

800
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:47,600
Spoelstra is on everyone's mind.
He coaches the heat. 

801
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,600
I think you could come here now.
I'm totally kidding. 

802
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,000
I know, dr. 
Rivers is the one that you 

803
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,700
meant. 
Yes, yes, I want Nate McMillan. 

804
00:36:56,900 --> 00:37:00,800
This listen spring McMillan up, 
not me Brad Stevens. 

805
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,200
Like let's, let's go to. 
I've been joking. 

806
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,000
Like, we're, I made a podcast to
have fun like I'm not a real 

807
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,700
journalist. 
Let's let's talk about it. 

808
00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:08,900
Thanks it took us 39 minutes to 
get here. 

809
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:10,800
No one's still listening. 
They're just waiting for the 

810
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,000
ground, Stephen stuff. 
And we gate, we make sure we put

811
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,900
a timestamp in the descriptions 
of people know. 

812
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:16,900
They can skip ahead to the Brad 
Stevens stuff. 

813
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,700
That's right. 
I'm ready, buddy. 

814
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:19,900
Wants to listen to you right 
now. 

815
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:25,100
I'm writing that down right now 
but I will say this, you know, I

816
00:37:25,107 --> 00:37:28,200
don't have sources, but I've a 
lot of people I talk to and it's

817
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,700
always been doing never 
happening. 

818
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:32,600
Like, Steve is never come, 
that's always been the line is. 

819
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,500
Like it's just the timing wasn't
going to line up. 

820
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:38,600
It's never going to work once 
Dolson made this move. 

821
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:42,500
I started hearing like the it 
was different this time. 

822
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:45,000
It's like, well there's a 5% 
chance like I don't know, it's 

823
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,600
one in a million or 1 1 in 1,000
that's already hearing. 

824
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,900
And it's like that, you know, 5%
10% like it's not, it's not 

825
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:52,600
illogical, probably not going to
happen. 

826
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,400
Which is way different than just
know. 

827
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,100
And then as this has gone on 
things are just there's just 

828
00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:03,200
there's smoke everywhere now. 
I'm seeing it from a brad 

829
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,100
Stevens that you always talk 
about, you know, crimson color 

830
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:06,200
glass. 
I'm seeing this from Brad 

831
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,400
Stevens colored glasses, like 
I'm viewing it in here and by 

832
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,300
the way, I hate the national 
thing of like you guys just 

833
00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:13,500
think you're going to get sick, 
who cares? 

834
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:14,800
Like this is why it's fun to be 
a fan. 

835
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,100
Like this is why it's good 
times, but if you view 

836
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:23,100
everything under the guise of 
Brad, Stevens has some Interest 

837
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:26,400
in this, it all makes sense. 
Like this is the way. 

838
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,000
Dolson would play it. 
If you, if I'm Dolson, I feel 

839
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,900
like I have a shot to get Brad 
Stevens. 

840
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:33,000
Like, I'm gonna go be able to 
talk people, get money like 

841
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,400
this. 
I'm going to get the money to 

842
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,700
buy him out. 
I firmly believe you fire Archie

843
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:41,800
right away because the old IU 
way of doing things would have 

844
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,900
been like well let's keep our 
Chi to keep things going and 

845
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,200
then we'll try and go back 
channel to Brad. 

846
00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:50,600
But you know this is where if 
you want phone call, sorry. 

847
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:57,900
This is where you want. 
It might be a source of info. 

848
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:00,000
If you have to take it. 
No, no, it's not a source of 

849
00:39:00,008 --> 00:39:01,200
info. 
It's like my headphones. 

850
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,600
Start picking up the phone, and 
I'm not going to cut it. 

851
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,400
We're just going to keep it 
going. 

852
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,900
This is this is live. 
Pod bad podcasting, but me, 

853
00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:11,300
you've got to put the heat on 
Brad Stevens. 

854
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:13,200
A little bit. 
You can't just say, well, you 

855
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,100
know, you know, come here and 
because your Brands like look 

856
00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:18,200
man, get rid of your coach and 
then maybe I'll talk to you. 

857
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,400
You got to show your aggressive.
I like this and then I'll end on

858
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,500
this point. 
Talk to Ryan about this on my 

859
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:25,300
last pod you guys on the 
assembly. 

860
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:27,500
Call kind of your Oil. 
Oh my God. 

861
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:30,800
The you know, we fired our cheap
odd, you brought up something. 

862
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,100
I thought was a great point that
you never want to be publicly 

863
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:37,900
turned down. 
But in this case I do think that

864
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:41,500
whether it's back channels. 
At some point I you needs to let

865
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:45,100
their offer kind of get leaked 
and then if Brad Stevens turns 

866
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,300
us down if it comes out and I've
heard a year and a number of go 

867
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:51,100
around and what we're offering 
which is pretty pretty, pretty 

868
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:54,600
high if that is the case, I 
think you do need to leak it if 

869
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,800
your Dolson and let that out 
because If Brad says no, that's 

870
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,700
like, okay, we gave our best 
shot and then, you know, in two 

871
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:03,200
years, lets say he leaves, the 
Celtics who gets fired and then 

872
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,400
goes to coach North Carolina or 
Duke or wherever or go somewhere

873
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,400
else? 
I know. 

874
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,500
But like, let's just say at some
point, maybe he does go back to 

875
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:13,100
college. 
At least we, as fans can say, 

876
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:15,500
hey, we put our best foot 
forward like, you know, hey the 

877
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,900
girl doesn't want to date me. 
Like what can I do? 

878
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,700
I think in this case, we need to
know like hey we put our best 

879
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:24,800
foot forward, he said no we're 
going to move on with our lives.

880
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,900
Versus always kind of hanging. 
This over our head. 

881
00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:31,500
So I love the way that Dolson is
doing this and I do believe that

882
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:34,900
we are in the midst of putting 
our best foot forward to Brad 

883
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:39,400
Stevens right now. 
I agree. 100% agree, you know 

884
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,500
this Brad. 
Stevens thing is fascinating, it

885
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:44,300
really is. 
And I think there are there are 

886
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:47,900
two cognitive biases at play 
right now, for Indiana fans. 

887
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:51,500
And for the national media, you 
know, we always is humans. 

888
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:53,600
You know, we have these 
cognitive biases that operate, 

889
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,500
the color, the way that we 
perceive things, and so 

890
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:58,800
important to kind of First and 
how they're operating, right? 

891
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,000
One of them is confirmation 
bias, right? 

892
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,900
So, you know, this idea that you
kind of look at things, you look

893
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:06,500
at information and you view it 
through this prism of kind of 

894
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:11,200
confirming your, maybe, your 
desired, or even your existing 

895
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,300
beliefs, right? 
And so I think very guilty of 

896
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:15,000
that. 
We all are, we all are made. 

897
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,300
It's just human nature. 
So, you know, as Indiana fans, 

898
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:18,000
right? 
It's like okay. 

899
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
We look at stuff who the Celtics
aren't playing very well. 

900
00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:24,000
You know, Brad Stevens spent two
minutes at a press conference, 

901
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,200
you know, talking about his 
history, you know. 

902
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,800
With Indiana basketball, you 
know? 

903
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,300
He grew up in Indiana, right? 
You start like adding up all of 

904
00:41:30,308 --> 00:41:34,500
these things and in your own 
mind, it starts to confirm. 

905
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,500
Hey, there could be a real 
chance here, you know, like 

906
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:40,000
maybe this could really happen, 
you know? 

907
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,400
And so, you know, so National 
media people or other people who

908
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,500
don't kind of have the same 
pre-existing beliefs, right? 

909
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:50,400
They look at it and they're just
like, you guys are crazy, you 

910
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,400
know, but here's the other 
thing, the other one that's 

911
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,500
operating and I think it's 
operating in an even more 

912
00:41:55,500 --> 00:42:01,200
Insidious A is anchoring and you
know, anchoring is where, you 

913
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,000
know, the way that we think 
about something is kind of 

914
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,500
anchored to this initial belief 
that we have about it. 

915
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,300
And the thing with the Brad 
Stevens to Indiana stuff ever 

916
00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:11,400
since he was at Butler is every 
time the conversation has come 

917
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,000
up. 
It's it's been presented as a 

918
00:42:15,008 --> 00:42:18,600
non-starter because it has been 
a non-starter you know you 

919
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,300
couldn't move on from crane 
after 2013 as mad as you were 

920
00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:26,200
about Syracuse, not a bit insane
know what a Big Ten title. 

921
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:29,000
Please number one, you know, a 
number one seed, all those 

922
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,400
things like that would have been
crazy, you know, then Brad 

923
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,500
Stevens goes to Boston and he's 
excited about this opportunity. 

924
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:38,100
He clearly enjoyed. 
You know the what the lifestyle 

925
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:40,100
and coaching that NBA presented 
over college. 

926
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:43,200
So it's never really been a 
possibility. 

927
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,900
And so our thinking about Brad, 
Stevens has always been anchored

928
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:47,900
to this idea that it's not 
possible. 

929
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,400
If you even mention it, you're 
going to get called out. 

930
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,600
You're probably going to feel 
like a fool yourself if you even

931
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,600
talk about it. 
So we just never really talked 

932
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,800
about it. 
But what's happening right now 

933
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,700
is there is a real legitimate 
possibility of this and this 

934
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:06,300
anchoring in our minds for a lot
of people hasn't caught up to 

935
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:08,500
it, you know. 
So we look at these things that 

936
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:12,600
we view as confirmation bias 
running wild in our mind, but 

937
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,600
just because it's confirmation 
bias, doesn't mean that there is

938
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,400
an actual reality there. 
You know, all of those things. 

939
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:22,800
The Celtics are playing poorly 
and that does open up an 

940
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,500
opportunity to wear this 
marriage between Brad Stevens, 

941
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,000
and Danny Ainge. 
My Not work. 

942
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:30,500
It is weird that he spent an 
entire two minutes at a of a 

943
00:43:30,508 --> 00:43:34,700
question, you know, reflecting 
about this time in Indiana, you 

944
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:36,800
know, Mark Titus talked about 
this on his podcast and 

945
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,800
basically, at the end it's like 
he remembered the script and was

946
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,800
like, oh, but I'm, you know, the
coach of the Boston Celtics, 

947
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,700
like it's a pull like, you know,
and he might not have wanted to 

948
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:47,700
go home three or four years ago,
you know, because he's in 

949
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:49,700
Boston, you know, his kids are 
still young. 

950
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,700
He's enjoying being in the NBA, 
it's four years later. 

951
00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:55,100
The pull to go home. 
Can hit you at a different 

952
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:57,500
season of life and maybe Maybe 
that's what's happening now. 

953
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:00,400
So there are legitimate 
circumstances that are coming 

954
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,800
together that if you were to 
just remove the anchoring and 

955
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,100
remove the way that we thought 
about this for a long time, you 

956
00:44:06,107 --> 00:44:09,400
would say, of course he's the 
number one candidate for this 

957
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,500
job. 
Of course, he's one of the more 

958
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:13,900
likely candidates for this job 
because of his connection, how 

959
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:16,400
much Indiana is going to offer 
the way that things are lining 

960
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,000
up with the Celtics all of this 
stuff. 

961
00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:21,500
Now, none of that is to say that
it's going to happen for sure. 

962
00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:25,600
But what I do think seems Pretty
likely. 

963
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,300
At this point, is we're putting 
together an amazing offer. 

964
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,800
He's Option. 1 2, and 3, we are 
going to do everything in our 

965
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,600
power to get him. 
And it's just going to come down

966
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,700
to the simple fact of does he 
want to be the coach at Indiana 

967
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:39,900
or not and if he does he will 
be, he'll be rewarded handsomely

968
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:42,200
for it. 
And all the DAR was like well 

969
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:43,400
what's going to happen with the 
Celtics? 

970
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,900
And how all those details will 
be figured out if we have to 

971
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:47,500
wait until June. 
We'll wait until June like 

972
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:49,200
whatever. 
It's it's Brad Stevens, you 

973
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,200
know, so that stuff will happen.
But so I think like, I guess my 

974
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,700
message And Indiana fans is like
it's okay to like think about 

975
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:00,300
this and hope about it. 
I mean don't get crazy about it 

976
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:02,700
like it may not happen. 
So don't allow it to like just 

977
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:04,700
devastate your life if it 
doesn't happen. 

978
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,800
But we don't have to be anchored
to this thought that it's not 

979
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,400
possible. 
There is a window right now 

980
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:10,800
we're Brad. 
Stevens could become the coach 

981
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,500
of Indiana and we're just 
waiting to see if it's going to 

982
00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:16,300
happen and that's okay you know 
like that is okay and it'll be 

983
00:45:16,308 --> 00:45:18,800
great if it happens and then we 
can move onto. 

984
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:22,400
You know what it will be like 
when fantasy meets reality of 

985
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,500
Brad Stevens in Indiana because 
that would be fascinating. 

986
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:28,500
Eating, or we move on to the 
next candidate but you know, 

987
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,100
don't don't let people tell you 
that you shouldn't think about 

988
00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:34,400
it or hope about it like there's
legitimate reason to and doesn't

989
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,700
make you crazy to think that. 
And and I would, I would venture

990
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:41,400
to say, just don't listen the 
national people. 

991
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,900
Like they just don't know. 
Like I was, I love PTI but I'm 

992
00:45:43,908 --> 00:45:46,100
watching wilbon who by the way, 
is like a Northwestern grad. 

993
00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:50,100
So he's got a bias, but he's 
like on PTI and he's been saying

994
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:52,000
we shouldn't have hired Archie. 
It's like, okay, great, like 

995
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,100
we'll just keep not making the 
tournament but he's like, you 

996
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:58,000
know, Today he just said on the 
last PTI yesterday was like, you

997
00:45:58,008 --> 00:45:59,700
know, the Celtics can pay more 
than I you. 

998
00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:02,200
It's like, no, like college 
coaches. 

999
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,800
Make more like, you know, Gail 
has been spouting. 

1000
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,900
This it's like just a fact Tom 
Allen makes more than than Brad,

1001
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:09,600
Stevens does now. 
And by the way, like, if we're 

1002
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,700
putting together a package and, 
you know, somewhere on the list,

1003
00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:14,700
Chris beard is on our list 
somewhere. 

1004
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,500
You know, Chris beard makes four
and a half million at Texas Tech

1005
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:19,700
or five million. 
Like we can't just tell Chris 

1006
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:20,400
beard. 
Hey, man. 

1007
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,900
Like, you know, once you come to
IU and take a two million dollar

1008
00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:24,500
pay cut that we're putting 
together a package. 

1009
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:26,700
Him. 
That's the range we're looking 

1010
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:28,500
at. 
That's double what Steve is is 

1011
00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:32,600
making in the NBA right now. 
Like it's no I'm with you and 

1012
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:34,700
you know you can't do what I 
want to. 

1013
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:37,700
Hey I want to say something real
quick though because and I just 

1014
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:40,400
want to throw this out there 
because I don't like Brad 

1015
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,300
Stevens contract. 
Number has been thrown around at

1016
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:43,700
three point. 
Six, seven million. 

1017
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,100
That was his initial contract. 
I do think he signed an 

1018
00:46:46,107 --> 00:46:48,500
extension, so I think he's 
making more, I'm just not sure 

1019
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,400
that they disclosed it. 
So they, it's important to know.

1020
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,900
I just want to like, make sure 
that's good because I made that 

1021
00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:55,600
same mistake. 
Like I think he's making a lot 

1022
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,500
more. 
So like we may not double his 

1023
00:46:57,500 --> 00:47:00,500
salary or whatever, but to your 
point it will be more. 

1024
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:05,500
Like we will increase his salary
by a, by a good amount but it 

1025
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:08,000
may not be able. 
And the other thing too is, you 

1026
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,300
know, its it feels like a 
natural breaking point in, 

1027
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:14,300
Boston, like I'm I'm going to be
as guilty as anybody watching, 

1028
00:47:14,300 --> 00:47:16,000
you know. 
I'm now Cavs fan, like I'll be, 

1029
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,100
I'll be a buck stay with it for 
the Bucs, like, rooting for 

1030
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:20,800
losses of the Celtics. 
But, you know, in the end, you 

1031
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,800
look at the history of NBA 
coaches, Popovich is the 

1032
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,000
outlier. 
These guys have a seven to nine 

1033
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,500
year window. 
Boston fans are rabid and it is 

1034
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:33,300
funny watching National guys on 
one hand saying I, you, you 

1035
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:35,700
know, we're crazy fans for 
watching our coach gone. 

1036
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:37,700
But on the flip side, it's like 
Stevens. 

1037
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:39,900
Who's taken the Celtics to three
of the last four Eastern 

1038
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:41,800
Conference Finals. 
They're like, well yeah. 

1039
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,400
But you know, it makes sense. 
They want to fire Stevens like 

1040
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,200
those two things are accurate, 
like those can't be in the same 

1041
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,800
category, like we can't be 
missing the tournament. 

1042
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,300
Then they can Eastern Conference
Finals and it's okay for them. 

1043
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,000
For both of us, we can't fire 
our codes but they Can fire. 

1044
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,700
There's but I want to get into 
the timing to me, that's the 

1045
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:00,800
interesting thing. 
Like whether Stevens has 

1046
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,500
interest, if your point who 
knows? 

1047
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:05,400
Like maybe he does, maybe he's 
okay with recruiting, who knows?

1048
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,200
But if he wants to come here, 
this is the part that again, 

1049
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,100
there's smoke all over the 
place. 

1050
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:14,800
I'm hearing lots of crazy rumors
that all click in, but again, I 

1051
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,200
don't know if I'm in the bleep. 
Beautiful Mind moment where I'm 

1052
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,400
just making connections to 
stuff, and I'm insane. 

1053
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,000
But let's just go under the 
assumption because it's fun. 

1054
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,200
And this is a podcast. 
That Stevens wants to come here 

1055
00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:28,200
and Dolson has the money to pay 
him. 

1056
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:33,200
The part that I cannot figure 
out is how you how you line 

1057
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:39,000
things up timing-wise because 
it's very unlikely for him to 

1058
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,100
just resign and say, I'm done 
coaching the stuff maybe that's 

1059
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:44,600
going to happen, more than 
likely, he would coach the 

1060
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,600
string out, but if your eye you 
it's a great. 

1061
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,200
If Steven says I'm I'm gonna 
come here. 

1062
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,200
But if you don't have a signed 
contract, if you just have his 

1063
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,700
word, Word. 
You could be in a spot where you

1064
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:59,400
get to June and it's like 
everyone assumes you're getting 

1065
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,700
Stevens. 
And now Brad could say yeah no I

1066
00:49:02,707 --> 00:49:05,300
got you know for whatever reason
he could change his mind and now

1067
00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:08,700
your eye you and you're like, 
you're really, you know, 

1068
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:12,700
flapping in the wind and you 
have am again, Ohio State got 

1069
00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:15,800
Holtman in July as well, so not 
the end of the world but that 

1070
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,400
would be that would kind of be a
very bad case scenario of your 

1071
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,400
Dolson to kind of just hang on a
promise and a pinky promise. 

1072
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,200
You almost have to have a signed
contract, but if you have that 

1073
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,400
it's going to get out now. 
So I just I don't know how the 

1074
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,500
timing of it could work. 
That is the interesting part of 

1075
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:37,700
it, the really interesting part 
of it, you know, and I think 

1076
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,600
it's a risk reward type 
situation right? 

1077
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,700
You wouldn't he's got Dolson you
wouldn't wait around for any 

1078
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:49,400
coach but this is Brad Stevens, 
who is not, he's not the perfect

1079
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,900
candidate like you know, he's 
not the perfect coach but he's 

1080
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:55,400
clearly the best candidate. 
And so So you know to me I 

1081
00:49:55,408 --> 00:49:57,200
always try to look at these 
things through the prism of 

1082
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,800
okay, what am I going to regret 
more? 

1083
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,700
You know if I'm if I'm looking 
at this from Scott dull since 

1084
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:03,300
perspective and even if I'm 
looking at it from a fan 

1085
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:06,100
perspective like if there's a 
legit shot that this could 

1086
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:08,300
happen, right? 
And you know, Scott Dawson comes

1087
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:10,700
to me as I. 
Okay, there's no guarantee. 

1088
00:50:10,700 --> 00:50:13,100
But, you know, there's some 
interest here and we think we've

1089
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:15,700
got a shot like, you know, what 
do you want to do? 

1090
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:17,700
Do you want me to play it safe? 
Or do you want me to like, push 

1091
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:20,800
all the chips into the table, 
and do everything that we have 

1092
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,000
to do to make this a 
possibility? 

1093
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:25,900
I would say? 
Fortune favors the Bold. 

1094
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:28,500
Let's go for this. 
Like, this is the guy that we 

1095
00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:29,800
all want. 
Who knows? 

1096
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,700
What would actually happen if he
becomes coach. 

1097
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,600
But goodness gracious, we'd all 
love to see it. 

1098
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,100
So let's go with it and the 
like, what really is the 

1099
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:39,800
worst-case scenario, okay? 
So the worst case scenario is 

1100
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,200
you wait until the end of the 
season, right? 

1101
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,600
You go until June July. 
Things turn around he decides. 

1102
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,100
You know what I want to be here.
I love my guys, Jason Tatum and 

1103
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,900
and Jalen Brown, you know, I 
appreciate the interest. 

1104
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:52,300
I'm sorry that I dragged this 
out. 

1105
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:54,700
I'll always have a soft spot for
Indiana in my Art. 

1106
00:50:54,700 --> 00:50:56,400
But at the end of the day, I 
want to be an NBA coach because 

1107
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,300
I like the lifestyle better. 
You know. 

1108
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,700
Sorry. 
Scott, you know, thanks thanks 

1109
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:01,600
for the offer and now Scott 
Dolson sitting there in the 

1110
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,300
middle of the summer, like well,
okay, yeah like like what do I 

1111
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:08,700
do now? 
Are your second third options 

1112
00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:11,100
that you have in mind right now?
Are they still possibilities? 

1113
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:13,400
Who knows? 
Let's say, worst case scenario, 

1114
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,900
they're not this is still the 
Indiana basketball job, you 

1115
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:18,300
know? 
And now at this point, you've 

1116
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:20,700
done everything to get your 
number one, guy it hasn't 

1117
00:51:20,700 --> 00:51:23,400
worked, but at least you've 
taken your shot, your fan base 

1118
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,600
knows that you've taken your 
Shot there in your corner. 100%.

1119
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,200
So we got to step down the 
ladder. 

1120
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,200
Some you're still going to get a
good coach or somebody good. 

1121
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:37,300
So to me the risk reward is the 
worst case scenario it would 

1122
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:39,500
suck, you know, just in 
comparison to how we're 

1123
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:42,700
thinking, but it probably 
wouldn't be that bad. 

1124
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,800
But the upside of getting it is 
what we all want. 

1125
00:51:48,100 --> 00:51:50,100
And how long has it been? 
Since is Indiana, basketball 

1126
00:51:50,100 --> 00:51:51,800
fans. 
We actually got what we want for

1127
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,300
once, you know. 
So I just, I think the roof 

1128
00:51:54,500 --> 00:51:58,500
Reward means you do what it 
takes and if some good options 

1129
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:01,900
Fall by the wayside in the 
meantime, that's a trait. 

1130
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,400
Me is a fan that's a trade-off. 
I would be willing to make. 

1131
00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:08,900
So I would not second-guess, 
Scott Dolson, if he made it and 

1132
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:12,000
I would be willing to live with 
what the repercussions of that 

1133
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,800
could be. 
If the downside comes true, 

1134
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,800
which it very well could, but I 
say go for it, I think that's a 

1135
00:52:18,808 --> 00:52:21,200
great way to look at it because 
if you assume, you know, 

1136
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,200
somewhere on all of our list is 
Dane Fife, and I'm not pick it 

1137
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,800
on. 
But he's only had coaching 

1138
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,300
experience at IPFW, he's an 
assistant, but there's a lot to 

1139
00:52:30,300 --> 00:52:35,200
like about Fife and he's on my 
on my personal like short list. 

1140
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:36,800
I'm with you. 
Like you take the shot at 

1141
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,900
Stephens and like, I don't want 
say worst case but it's like 

1142
00:52:38,900 --> 00:52:41,200
Fife is probably still there. 
Fife would take. 

1143
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,300
The job is not, life is gonna be
like, oh yeah, I'm going to turn

1144
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:45,800
down a power, five job just 
because you guys got turned down

1145
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,900
by Brad Stevens. 
You know, he would still be 

1146
00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:50,700
there, so it's like, you're 
gonna get you to your point. 

1147
00:52:50,700 --> 00:52:52,900
You're gonna get somebody on 
that list, maybe it's not gonna 

1148
00:52:52,900 --> 00:52:55,000
be, you know, beard or be E 
line. 

1149
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:59,600
But you know what's interesting 
is, as I look at this, all of 

1150
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:04,500
these guys do have do have warts
that do need to be looked at 

1151
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:07,700
like and I think we can be happy
with any of them and I'll 

1152
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:09,500
probably watch them all away 
when we get there. 

1153
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:12,900
But when you kind of look down 
the line, you know, Stevens is 

1154
00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:14,800
really the one that checks all 
of those boxes. 

1155
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,400
So I agree with you, you take 
your shot because you look at 

1156
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,500
beard, I'll just do my real 
quick break down here. 

1157
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:24,400
Like you know, beard is a very 
good coach and shows. 

1158
00:53:24,500 --> 00:53:28,700
Can turn things around quickly 
but it's also a, you know, it's 

1159
00:53:28,700 --> 00:53:31,200
kind of off of one season like 
which is kind of where we were 

1160
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,800
with Archie and his ties to 
Indiana are very minimal and 

1161
00:53:34,808 --> 00:53:38,300
he's a Texas guy like 
everything, you know, and it's 

1162
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:40,200
going to cost a ton of money to 
get him. 

1163
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,000
Like, it is going to cost a ton 
of money to get him. 

1164
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,000
You look, Scott drew, he's a 
good coach, but he comes with 

1165
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,300
some baggage at this point. 
I'm kind of in the boat. 

1166
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:51,900
Like, I don't care about slimy. 
I just care about W's, but 

1167
00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:54,600
there's some baggage with him. 
You look at Eric, Muslim. 

1168
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,100
And I think Muslims are very 
great coach has some great 

1169
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:01,400
resume but there's some Creed 
2.0 Vibes. 

1170
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,200
He's kind of a crazy guy that 
there's some of that too. 

1171
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,800
And I would say this like you're
not if you're Dolson, you're not

1172
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,100
acting like this. 
If you're going after a 

1173
00:54:09,107 --> 00:54:11,700
muscleman like muscle man is 
obviously down the list and then

1174
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,500
you get to like the Fife Cheney 
type. 

1175
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:15,900
It's like they have no coaching 
experience or there's there's 

1176
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:19,500
issues with all of those guys 
that's kind of how I see it and 

1177
00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:22,600
that's kind of my and then be 
lying early on. 

1178
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,200
I was kind of interested but You
know, as I listen to more people

1179
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,000
talk about it, listen to Galen 
talk about it. 

1180
00:54:28,008 --> 00:54:31,900
It's like, I think be line is 
honestly trying to get us 

1181
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:34,600
interested, so he could up his 
offer for Minnesota like be 

1182
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,000
line. 
You're going to need somebody 

1183
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,200
who's young and energetic and 
just has that ability to kind of

1184
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,700
build this program up and I'm 
not sure be lines. 

1185
00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:44,300
The right guy. 
And I also know if Dolson wants 

1186
00:54:44,300 --> 00:54:47,700
to do all this and then do it 
again and six years, you know, 

1187
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,800
you bring up a good point. 
Like, like a guy like Chris 

1188
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,900
beard is a great option. 
Huge option to me like, 

1189
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:54,900
personally, he's the number two,
Option. 

1190
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,400
You know, but he's not the 
perfect candidate. 

1191
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,100
And all any candidate is going 
to have words. 

1192
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:03,900
Like if you actually like, who 
were the actual candidates? 

1193
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:05,600
Like let's just think 
pie-in-the-sky take everything 

1194
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,500
away who are the candidates that
don't have question marks like 

1195
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:09,800
that? 
Would have no question marks 

1196
00:55:10,700 --> 00:55:12,900
Tony Bennett but even he would 
have question marks as people 

1197
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:14,800
don't like his offensive style, 
right? 

1198
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,000
But you know, he would win like 
Jay, right? 

1199
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,600
But now you're gonna go back to 
dating Bennett, I know, but hold

1200
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,900
on, but let me make the point, 
you know Jay, right? 

1201
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:24,300
But now you're taking J right 
out of his comfort zone and 

1202
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:25,900
Sophia and putting him in the 
midwest. 

1203
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:27,800
So the point is like, 
everybody's going to have 

1204
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,900
question marks, you know, like 
here's a blind resume for you, 

1205
00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:33,400
right? 
Take a coach, who is like, was 

1206
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:38,600
that at a mid-major, okay, 
mid-major for six seasons out of

1207
00:55:38,607 --> 00:55:41,900
those six seasons. 
Had to 20-win seasons made the 

1208
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:44,500
NIT four times. 
Like, would you be excited about

1209
00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:46,700
that? 
Coach being named being named 

1210
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:48,700
Indiana's? 
Coach, lots of question marks, 

1211
00:55:48,700 --> 00:55:49,700
right? 
Right. 

1212
00:55:49,900 --> 00:55:51,400
That's Bob Knight's resume from 
army. 

1213
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:54,700
You know what I mean? 
So, like, you know, And are you 

1214
00:55:54,707 --> 00:55:56,900
going to stumble into the next 
bob Knight? 

1215
00:55:56,900 --> 00:55:59,400
Probably not but that's what I 
mean. 

1216
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,000
So it's you have to look at the 
resume. 

1217
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,900
But if we've learned anything 
from the Archie Miller 

1218
00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:07,400
experience, it's you've got to 
look at the resume and the 

1219
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,000
results, you know? 
But also the fit and the 

1220
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,000
personality and all of those 
things. 

1221
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,500
And so, you know, I think when 
you add all of that stuff up, I 

1222
00:56:17,508 --> 00:56:21,800
think beard makes the most sense
and look on as recently as that 

1223
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,900
podcast that we did for the 
assembly call as Is Archie was 

1224
00:56:24,900 --> 00:56:27,000
fired. 
I was talking about how I didn't

1225
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,800
think he was a possibility. 
And for several reasons I really

1226
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,700
didn't. 
Because at that time, you talked

1227
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:34,900
about his salary and, I guess to
me, like, I just, I hadn't 

1228
00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:37,600
gotten out of the IU basketball 
mindset thinking that we might 

1229
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,300
try to not lowball a coach but 
not pay it like the top top 

1230
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:43,700
levels. 
And also, you know, he's there 

1231
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:46,200
are real reasons why he might 
not be interested, his family's 

1232
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,500
in Texas, he's from Texas. 
He may just have a comfort zone 

1233
00:56:48,500 --> 00:56:50,300
there, Texas. 
Technically do everything to 

1234
00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:53,900
keep him but I've really changed
on that and I really do think it

1235
00:56:53,900 --> 00:56:57,700
makes more Or sense as a 
realistic possibility but you 

1236
00:56:57,700 --> 00:57:00,900
know all these candidates are 
going to have even Brad Stevens 

1237
00:57:00,900 --> 00:57:03,400
has some question marks you know
it is this again is going to be 

1238
00:57:03,408 --> 00:57:05,100
a guy who wants to grind on the 
recruiting Trail. 

1239
00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:07,900
Maybe he doesn't need to because
he's an NBA coach, you know, 

1240
00:57:07,900 --> 00:57:10,100
he's a former NBA coach, he's 
got that credibility and all 

1241
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:14,300
that stuff, but like their 
question marks, you know. 

1242
00:57:14,308 --> 00:57:17,300
So that's that's just kind of 
the reality of this situation 

1243
00:57:17,300 --> 00:57:22,400
but I'm gonna, I don't know. 
I I continue to say like I'm 

1244
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,400
going to be pretty surprised if 
we have to go further down. 

1245
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,800
Our list in the top couple or, 
you know, top top three will 

1246
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,700
see, we met, but I've a lot of 
faith in Dolson to make this 

1247
00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:35,600
work, somehow some way whether 
it's stevens or somebody else. 

1248
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,900
I think we're going to end up 
liking who we get well and you 

1249
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:41,100
can play that game with with 
resumes. 

1250
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:42,900
It's interesting too. 
Because you look at like, you 

1251
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:44,500
know, hey would you want 
somebody who just had you know D

1252
00:57:44,500 --> 00:57:45,800
to experience a car with Bo 
Ryan? 

1253
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,200
What do you want? 
Somebody who's never had a 

1254
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,800
coaching experience like that's 
Tom Izzo like there's you can 

1255
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,400
play this game and to me I think
where I'm happy to get it, 

1256
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:54,400
right? 
You gotta pick the right. 

1257
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,100
Right guy. 
No well I honestly don't I mean 

1258
00:57:58,100 --> 00:58:01,400
yes obviously, yes. 
But I look at it more. 

1259
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,100
You've got to identify when 
things aren't working and make a

1260
00:58:06,107 --> 00:58:08,200
decision faster, which is what 
we did. 

1261
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,900
And historically is what we 
don't do. 

1262
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:13,600
We kind of let Davis linger 
probably an extra year, you 

1263
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,100
know, when things seem to be not
working with creamy, let it 

1264
00:58:16,100 --> 00:58:20,600
linger, that's what we've done. 
And to me, that's, you know, I 

1265
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,900
look at hiring coaches, almost 
like recruiting or picking high 

1266
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:25,000
in the end. 
A draft. 

1267
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,100
It's like, I don't know if 
there's like this is the exact 

1268
00:58:28,100 --> 00:58:32,400
formula works because the 
mid-major moving to Major guy 

1269
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,000
like Archie, had the perfect 
resume for that. 

1270
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,800
It didn't work, you know, you 
could hire fight, that's like 

1271
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,700
that's taken the, you know, Tom 
Izzo, Michigan State Route, like

1272
00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:43,000
maybe that works like in the 
end, you just got to get the 

1273
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,800
right coach, but I think you 
just it's hard to say. 

1274
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,500
These are the five things that 
make a great coach, it can come 

1275
00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:51,600
from anywhere to me. 
It's like you have to be willing

1276
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,500
to just say, all right, we're 
going to give this two or three 

1277
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:56,400
years and then we're Gonna make 
a final decision of whether it's

1278
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,900
working because you can that was
in the end, the Archie thing, 

1279
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:03,100
that drove me nuts. 
This last year is when, when 

1280
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:06,300
it's working, you can see it. 
I mean, you see it with Brad 

1281
00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:08,400
Underwood at Illinois. 
You see, it with hultman at Ohio

1282
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,300
State. 
He had a different starting 

1283
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:14,200
point, maybe, but you saw it 
with Creed, I mean year for 

1284
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,400
their there humming, you know, 
they're going, they're on their 

1285
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,100
way by year 5 or number one in 
the country. 

1286
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:22,400
Like, it, it doesn't take this 
long and when you're Indiana it,

1287
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,200
sure. 
As shit should not take that 

1288
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,700
long. 
Along with the resources we 

1289
00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:27,200
have. 
So that that would be my 

1290
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,300
pitches, no matter who you hire 
even as excited as we are with 

1291
00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:34,800
Stevens by year three, we should
all be at the point where it's 

1292
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,700
like, all right, are we pointed 
and going in the right 

1293
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:39,600
trajectory? 
And to me your three is kind of 

1294
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,300
that I think you're too 
honestly. 

1295
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:44,100
But you look at Illinois and 
Brad Underwood like your to it's

1296
00:59:44,100 --> 00:59:46,400
like there was nothing going on 
there but by year 3 it's like 

1297
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:51,200
they're Off to the Races and so 
yeah I think that's kind of 

1298
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,200
where I'm at. 
Yeah, the last thing I would say

1299
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:59,200
About that is is anything for 
Town evaluation or hiring. 

1300
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:00,800
Like, you've got to have a 
vision in your head for what 

1301
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,000
you're looking for, you know 
what. 

1302
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,000
And what are the? 
There's a lots of different 

1303
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,200
criteria that you could pick. 
But what's the most important 

1304
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,800
criteria? 
I want to credit? 

1305
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,800
Whoever said this, I don't 
remember who it was. 

1306
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,900
It's on one of the many episodes
of crimson cast that I've 

1307
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:14,500
listened to. 
I think, I think it might have 

1308
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:17,400
been, this might have been the 
one that Galen did with the guy 

1309
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,900
from who's a Yukon fan. 
I forget his name. 

1310
01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:22,000
I apologize. 
He's not, he's not like an IU. 

1311
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:23,900
Family brought him on to get 
kind of that objective 

1312
01:00:23,900 --> 01:00:27,000
perspective. 
But I think what's really 

1313
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:33,700
important for this hire is 
having a guy who has enough 

1314
01:00:33,700 --> 01:00:37,600
skins on the wall and a strong 
enough personality, and a strong

1315
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,100
enough vision for what his 
program is going to look like 

1316
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,000
that. 
He doesn't have to come in and 

1317
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,300
kowtow to the Indiana tradition 
or kowtow to Fan expectations, 

1318
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,500
but he sets the fan expectations
and he can pay homage to the 

1319
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:53,600
tradition and respect it while 
building a new one and 

1320
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,100
modernizing. 
It, you know? 

1321
01:00:55,100 --> 01:00:57,800
And and the point that was made 
on the other podcast was that's 

1322
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,300
what Nick Saban. 
Did it Alabama, Nick Saban came 

1323
01:01:00,300 --> 01:01:04,500
in and said, you know, he took 
the Alabama tradition and it was

1324
01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:07,800
this Amazing Canvas for him to 
paint his own Masterpiece on, 

1325
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,900
and he has done it, but it has 
been Nick Saban's, Alabama 

1326
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:13,600
football and it's a new era of 
Alabama, football and it's 

1327
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,200
changed things. 
It's not done like things were 

1328
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,000
done and in the time of Bear 
Bryant. 

1329
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,200
But you know what? 
The most important part of 

1330
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,200
tradition continuity is winning 
because that's the only 

1331
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,500
tradition we really care about. 
About like not the only like we 

1332
01:01:26,500 --> 01:01:28,700
care about the candy stripes and
we care about all that, and no 

1333
01:01:28,700 --> 01:01:31,600
coach is going to be dumb, 
enough to just come in and like,

1334
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:34,900
poopoo all that stuff and get 
rid of stuff unnecessarily, you 

1335
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:36,600
know. 
But if a coach wants to, if a 

1336
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,800
Coach comes in and is like, 
look, this name image or 

1337
01:01:39,808 --> 01:01:42,100
likeness thing is going to be 
one of the most important things

1338
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:44,600
over the next 10 years. 
I have a real plan for how I'm 

1339
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,500
gonna do this. 
And part of it is putting names 

1340
01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:48,200
on the back of the jerseys and 
we're going to do it. 

1341
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:51,600
That would cause that would 
ruffle some feathers. 

1342
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,700
But I think you need a guy who 
if he believes that's the right 

1343
01:01:54,700 --> 01:01:59,300
thing to do comes in says it can
sell you on it and succeeds in 

1344
01:01:59,308 --> 01:02:01,900
doing it. 
You know, we probably need that 

1345
01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:04,400
as a fan base, a little bit to 
be shaken out of some of the 

1346
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:08,200
things that we hold, dear. 
Let's just agree that there are 

1347
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:09,900
no sacred cows except for 
winning. 

1348
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,800
And we need a guy who is going 
to be able to be strong enough 

1349
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,500
to do that. 
Now, I'm not saying we're going 

1350
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:17,900
to hire Nick, Saban that, I 
mean, Nick, Saban and Alabama is

1351
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:24,300
like The perfect marriage of 
program and Coach, but it's not 

1352
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:27,200
ridiculous to think that we 
could do something close, the 

1353
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,200
situations are relatively 
analogous. 

1354
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,500
If we get the right guy in, but 
I think you got to have, you 

1355
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:35,000
know, and like Brad Stevens 
would represent that not that. 

1356
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,200
He's, this overly strong 
personality, but his stature 

1357
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,400
what he did. 
It Butler, what he did at Boston

1358
01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:44,500
and the stature he has in the 
fan base, you know, we would go 

1359
01:02:44,500 --> 01:02:46,900
along with anything that he said
in the first couple years if he 

1360
01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:48,900
thinks that's what he needs to 
do to build a program. 

1361
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,500
You know, even Chris beard to a 
certain extent. 

1362
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:52,900
He doesn't have all those skins 
on the wall. 

1363
01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:54,400
I mean, he's been to a national 
title game. 

1364
01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:57,900
He's competed well in the Big 
12, but he's got the force of 

1365
01:02:57,900 --> 01:03:01,600
personality to do it, you know? 
So I think you've got to have 

1366
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:06,200
someone who could come in and do
that and kind of take control of

1367
01:03:06,207 --> 01:03:08,200
this. 
Sometimes, unwieldy ship of the 

1368
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,700
IU fan base and get us all going
in One Direction because this is

1369
01:03:11,700 --> 01:03:15,200
a fan base, that is thirsting 
for strong competent leadership.

1370
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:20,200
So we just need to get it and I 
think the Vast vast, majority of

1371
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,300
folks would fall in line and 
make what the spent be able to 

1372
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:26,200
accentuate. 
The positives at the fan base 

1373
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:31,500
brings while minimizing some of 
the obvious and unfortunate, but

1374
01:03:31,500 --> 01:03:34,100
still in the minority negatives.
That it can occasionally bring. 

1375
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:35,800
No, I'm so happy. 
You brought this up. 

1376
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,600
This is the last point I wanted 
to talk about. 

1377
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,600
This is where I think it is for 
the next coach. 

1378
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,300
It's a fine line. 
You got a really thread this 

1379
01:03:42,300 --> 01:03:45,000
needle, because you see what 
coach Allen has done. 

1380
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:49,000
It has done with the football 
program with the Elio. 

1381
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,600
And, you know, he's built a, 
he's built a foundation there 

1382
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,800
and he's built a culture, but it
happened in, you know, football 

1383
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,300
was a black hole void, like 
there is no tradition and 

1384
01:03:58,308 --> 01:04:02,200
there's almost like a random mix
of like we played a shark song 

1385
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,500
on third down and like we, 
there's all kinds of stuff we're

1386
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:08,800
just as mishmash of little 
starts and stops of tradition, 

1387
01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:11,100
which maybe it's harder or 
easier, but he just kind of came

1388
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:13,600
in and was like Elio like Ellie.
Oh, that's what we're doing. 

1389
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,400
And it's hokey. 
But then you're like to your 

1390
01:04:15,408 --> 01:04:16,800
point. 
It was hokey and to assure 

1391
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,000
winning and now it's like, all 
right now, now there's a call. 

1392
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:22,400
When he had the belief and he 
had the force of personality to 

1393
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,700
get people onto his side and 
look at where basketballs 

1394
01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:28,200
tougher. 
Yes, what were you saying? 

1395
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,200
Tom Allen is a special guy, you 
know. 

1396
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,600
And look if you can identify 
someone with that's that genuine

1397
01:04:34,900 --> 01:04:37,700
and has that strong of a 
personality, I mean you got to 

1398
01:04:37,700 --> 01:04:39,200
get nothing. 
You have to get lucky. 

1399
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:40,800
I mean, I think you just have 
to, you know, Fred glass, 

1400
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,700
clearly knew what he was getting
in Tom Allen. 

1401
01:04:43,100 --> 01:04:45,200
But I mean a guy like that 
doesn't come along very well. 

1402
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,800
But I think, you know, 
basketball is a lot different 

1403
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,100
than Bob but you're going to 
have to have somebody who has 

1404
01:04:51,100 --> 01:04:54,000
some of those same traits of Tom
Allen where it's like I believe 

1405
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,500
in this and we're going to do 
this this way and the results 

1406
01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:00,100
are going to play out or they're
not and I'll be judged on those.

1407
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,800
But this is what I believe is 
the right way to do it. 

1408
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:07,600
And, you know, you're not going 
to, you know, some milk toast 

1409
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,500
guy who, you know, doesn't 
really want to kind of put 

1410
01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:12,200
himself front-and-center like 
Archie. 

1411
01:05:13,700 --> 01:05:16,300
The fan base is probably into 
precarious, if a position to 

1412
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:18,900
follow that you know, we're 
going to need someone. 

1413
01:05:19,100 --> 01:05:22,400
That's strong enough to be able 
to guide this in the direction 

1414
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,700
that it needs to go. 
Well, that's where basketball is

1415
01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:27,800
tough, because there are some 
traditions there that, you know,

1416
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,200
I don't see her sacred cows, but
you're going to, you're going to

1417
01:05:30,207 --> 01:05:33,100
ruffle feathers if you touch. 
But I also do think has been 

1418
01:05:33,100 --> 01:05:37,200
brought up on many of these pods
that it feels stale like it's 

1419
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,200
just Indiana brand. 
Feels stale. 

1420
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,800
We're selling on tradition. 
We're selling on, you know, all 

1421
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,200
these things. 
And it wouldn't feel stale if we

1422
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,100
were winning. 
I mean, if we were winning, this

1423
01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:49,500
would all be awesome Traditions 
that were all into We're not 

1424
01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:52,500
winning and so it is time for us
to look in ourselves. 

1425
01:05:52,500 --> 01:05:54,600
And I do think we need a coach 
to kind of come in and say, 

1426
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,500
okay, I know what younger 
recruits are looking for and 

1427
01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:01,600
we're going to keep a b and c, 
but we're going to change, X, Y,

1428
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,900
and Z, and we're going to change
it because of this. 

1429
01:06:03,900 --> 01:06:06,800
And I do think, you know, I'm 
going to go back to Archie. 

1430
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,500
But that was where Archie kind 
of just came in was like, all 

1431
01:06:08,500 --> 01:06:10,100
right well, Indiana basketball 
is what it is? 

1432
01:06:10,100 --> 01:06:11,200
I'm just going to coach 
basketball. 

1433
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,600
It's like no I I think we need 
we need a bit of a culture 

1434
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,400
shock. 
I think, the Nick Saban analogy 

1435
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,500
is perfect that they kept, you 
know, the Hound Each tooth and 

1436
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:21,700
some of those things but they 
changed it. 

1437
01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:24,000
What they change was their 
winning like now they're winning

1438
01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:27,600
and but I think this is where 
the next coach and that should 

1439
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,700
be something that Dolson is 
looking for. 

1440
01:06:29,700 --> 01:06:32,700
Is somebody who comes in. 
And I think Galen said this one 

1441
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:34,800
of the other pods looks this 
like an entrepreneur. 

1442
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,900
And to me this is a great 
opportunity because football was

1443
01:06:38,900 --> 01:06:40,200
really tough. 
There's nothing there. 

1444
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:41,800
Like, at least it would with his
basketball team. 

1445
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,400
This is a store that used to 
make a ton of money, the still 

1446
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,900
on a really good street corner 
to use the analogy but it's like

1447
01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:50,200
it's not making money now. 
It's like, can you figure out 

1448
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,600
the things that work and then 
shake up the things that don't 

1449
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,200
update it and if you do, you're 
going to have a power. 

1450
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,000
Because, you know, when you look
at this, from a Rosy 

1451
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,500
perspective, I think I was doing
this last night with some 

1452
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:05,600
friends. 
If you just, let's end on a very

1453
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,100
positive note because you're one
of the most positive guys in the

1454
01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:11,700
in the podcast here. 
But let's just assume for a 

1455
01:07:11,707 --> 01:07:15,300
moment that we do get Stevens. 
You know, let's just say they 

1456
01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:17,700
throw out a crazy number and 
he's making, you know, 6 million

1457
01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:19,900
a year. 
The question is even talking to 

1458
01:07:19,900 --> 01:07:22,000
my wife last night? 
Like if you're Dolson, you can 

1459
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,300
almost kind of just throw out 
whatever number you want because

1460
01:07:25,300 --> 01:07:29,000
let's just say you get Stevens 
to agree is he good is Dolson 

1461
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,400
going to have any problems, 
finding donors to pay six 

1462
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,700
million a year for Brad Stevens.
The answer is no, you know, and 

1463
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:39,200
you now have Alan and I've kind 
of joke that we're going to have

1464
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,400
a hundred percent approval 
rating over all of our coaches. 

1465
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,900
But we're really at a point. 
Now we're coming out of this 

1466
01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:45,800
pandemic. 
You could be one of the more 

1467
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:50,400
secure Financial situations for 
School in the Big Ten outside of

1468
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,200
maybe Ohio State or Michigan 
based on their football Revenue,

1469
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,700
but you're going to start 
getting football Revenue that 

1470
01:07:55,700 --> 01:07:58,300
that's uphill. 
Imagine we hire Stevens the next

1471
01:07:58,300 --> 01:08:00,200
two months. 
Okay, Stevens is our Coach 

1472
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,800
Stevens comes in and this fan 
base is fired up. 

1473
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,900
People are giving money at a 
ridiculous Clips. 

1474
01:08:05,900 --> 01:08:08,000
Dolson could literally be like, 
hey we're going to do a 30 

1475
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,900
million dollar fundraising 
campaign for IU Varsity Club. 

1476
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,800
Oh we already got 30 but we're 
going to 40 and they just go 

1477
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:15,700
back right shit. 
We're gonna do 60 of them. 

1478
01:08:15,700 --> 01:08:16,800
Yeah. 
Well you're going to talk about 

1479
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,300
a sellout for football for the 
first First game back, Hoosier 

1480
01:08:20,300 --> 01:08:24,200
hysteria is going to be nuts, 
like it and if this train gets 

1481
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,500
rolling and now you have 
football going to a bowl games, 

1482
01:08:26,500 --> 01:08:29,399
you have a program like this 
like this, you could have a 

1483
01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:35,300
Powerhouse back in Bloomington, 
making a ton of money and really

1484
01:08:35,300 --> 01:08:38,100
be in a great position. 
So that is what I think is at 

1485
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:41,600
stake and I think that's what 
the opportunity there and to 

1486
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,500
your point that's the 
opportunity cost. 

1487
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:46,899
Like you've got to shoot for 
that Moon because you could be 

1488
01:08:46,899 --> 01:08:50,200
in a position where it's like, 
all right, we are We're set to 

1489
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,800
really become a power of the Big
Ten like we've never been 

1490
01:08:53,899 --> 01:08:57,600
because we've never had 
basketball and football humming 

1491
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,100
like this. 
We did it once in the mid-80s, 

1492
01:09:00,100 --> 01:09:03,800
but even then it's like you had 
bob Knight running his own 

1493
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,700
fiefdom, his money was his own, 
he had crappy shoe deals, like 

1494
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,100
it was kind of running in this 
parallel universe. 

1495
01:09:10,100 --> 01:09:13,399
Like this is we're one united 
front. 

1496
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:18,500
That could really be a force to 
reckon with and we are were one 

1497
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:20,300
step away. 
Away from having it all working,

1498
01:09:20,300 --> 01:09:22,700
right, footballs got the right 
guy in place and it's hummin 

1499
01:09:22,700 --> 01:09:25,300
women's basketball has the right
woman in place and it's humming 

1500
01:09:25,300 --> 01:09:27,500
baseball's humming, you know, 
swimming and Diving, 

1501
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,300
unbelievable. 
You know, soccer unbelievable. 

1502
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:34,600
But the crown jewel is always 
been basketball and we just have

1503
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,500
to find the right guy. 
And if you do, the upside is 

1504
01:09:38,500 --> 01:09:42,100
through the roof and I clearly 
Scott Olson is Savvy enough to 

1505
01:09:42,100 --> 01:09:45,100
see that, and that's why he's 
doing, whatever it takes to get 

1506
01:09:45,100 --> 01:09:49,399
the guy who's most likely to 
blow the roof off the For what 

1507
01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:53,700
IU basketball, could be if you 
surveyed. 1,000 people write a 

1508
01:09:53,700 --> 01:09:56,700
basketball observers and just 
said, okay, who's the coach out 

1509
01:09:56,700 --> 01:09:58,200
there? 
Give Indiana every possible 

1510
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,200
coach that's available. 
Who's the one out there? 

1511
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:04,500
That is most likely to, you 
know, have it reach its 

1512
01:10:04,500 --> 01:10:07,600
potential 99.9% of people would 
say Brad. 

1513
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,000
Stevens doesn't mean you're 
going to get him, but it does 

1514
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,500
mean the risk-reward kind of 
calculus is there that it makes 

1515
01:10:14,500 --> 01:10:17,000
sense to do everything you can 
to get them and I firmly believe

1516
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,700
Indiana will. 
And, and then Then as we said, 

1517
01:10:19,700 --> 01:10:23,800
it's just up to his decision. 
And personally, I personally I'm

1518
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:25,600
at whatever the decision is I'm 
going to move on. 

1519
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,100
And I think this is why I'm 
indulging it so much and 

1520
01:10:28,100 --> 01:10:30,800
allowing myself to be hopeful. 
And number one, it's because we 

1521
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,300
haven't felt this in a while and
it's good to feel enthusiasm and

1522
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:36,700
to kind of feel alive as a fan. 
But I've made peace with it. 

1523
01:10:36,700 --> 01:10:40,100
So that whatever the decision is
after that fine, and I'm ready 

1524
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:41,400
to move on from it. 
I'm not going to feel 

1525
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,600
disappointed. 
It might feel a little bit 

1526
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,800
disappointed, you know, in the 
moment that it doesn't happen 

1527
01:10:46,100 --> 01:10:48,800
but I'm going to feel proud that
we took our shot, you know. 

1528
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,100
That we did everything because 
if you mean if you play your 

1529
01:10:51,100 --> 01:10:54,100
best but you know if you lose 
but you play your best. 

1530
01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:57,700
Now it's like when you know Pete
Bell and in Blue Chips they lose

1531
01:10:57,700 --> 01:10:59,500
and he's like those kids gave me
everything. 

1532
01:10:59,700 --> 01:11:02,600
They gave me their hearts you 
know as long as you do that then

1533
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:05,900
you can be happy with the result
you know and so you know why 

1534
01:11:05,900 --> 01:11:08,600
does Nick Saban work it out a 
Bama because he's all about 

1535
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,700
process over result but if you 
have the right process the 

1536
01:11:11,700 --> 01:11:14,500
results will come Scott. 
Dolson seems to have the right 

1537
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:16,300
process. 
So whether the result is Brad 

1538
01:11:16,300 --> 01:11:18,800
stevens or a different one, I 
believe we're going. 

1539
01:11:18,900 --> 01:11:20,200
To start getting the results we 
want. 

1540
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,200
Because the process makes a lot 
of sense. 

1541
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,100
Yeah, I love indulging. 
It, it's fun. 

1542
01:11:25,700 --> 01:11:27,000
This is fun. 
I want to have it. 

1543
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,400
I did. 
The only problem is like if it's

1544
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,400
timeline really is June, this is
going to be just so hard to wait

1545
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,900
for morning. 
Like I-15 podcast a week, until 

1546
01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:42,200
then Scott, I know, it's like, 
we can start doing a Celtics 

1547
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:46,100
podcast, like, yeah, Tate of 
looks like he's just like Celtic

1548
01:11:46,100 --> 01:11:48,200
assembly call. 
Postgame shows for Celtics 

1549
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,000
games. 
Just get on there. 

1550
01:11:50,300 --> 01:11:52,700
Just get on there boy. 
I really questioned these 

1551
01:11:52,700 --> 01:11:56,400
coaching decisions, not sure not
sure why. 

1552
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,700
He? 
Why he benched sound so there, I

1553
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:00,800
don't know. 
Maybe that maybe the pro game is

1554
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,200
past this coach by Yeah. 
Well, yeah. 

1555
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,500
Or just like looking at it 
through the prism of like man, 

1556
01:12:05,500 --> 01:12:10,200
Jim Brown like you know, a brown
shook him off like I want to get

1557
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,800
out of there like I think I'm 
like, I love the assembly call. 

1558
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:17,500
Celtics addition this. 
Oh my gosh, that's great. 

1559
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:20,600
Well no, it's just Been fun 
Jared, thank you for coming on. 

1560
01:12:20,900 --> 01:12:24,600
Let's have you back when we have
a coach and we have do it, have 

1561
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,800
some idea of Direction. 
It's funny on all of these 

1562
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,100
podcasts. 
Nobody is talking anything about

1563
01:12:29,100 --> 01:12:31,900
roster management, nor should 
we, because we just don't know 

1564
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:34,000
how any of this is going to 
play. 

1565
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,300
But yeah, I think at this point,
it's, we've got to get the Right

1566
01:12:38,300 --> 01:12:40,300
leader in place. 
And then those chips will kind 

1567
01:12:40,300 --> 01:12:44,800
of fall where they may, but get 
the right guy even if you get 

1568
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,000
the right. 
If you get the coach, you 

1569
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,800
believe in and every single 
player decides to transfer. 

1570
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,000
And happen. 
But if they do, whatever we got 

1571
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,400
to get the right guy, the right 
coach is going to be the one 

1572
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,400
that you want long-term. 
Now you get the right guy, 

1573
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:58,800
you're probably going to keep 
most of the players because 

1574
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,800
they're smart enough. 
And we have I think we've 

1575
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,900
recruited good enough families 
that they're smart enough to 

1576
01:13:02,900 --> 01:13:04,300
know. 
A I want to be with this coach 

1577
01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:05,800
because it's in the best 
interest of my son. 

1578
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,000
So let's get the right guy will 
set ourselves up for next year, 

1579
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,400
for the future. 
Let's just do it, man. 

1580
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,300
Let's do it. 
I know it's fun to indulge but I

1581
01:13:15,300 --> 01:13:17,700
think you hit on this. 
You hit a great Point. 

1582
01:13:17,700 --> 01:13:21,800
Like, even if Steven says no, I 
don't think we need to be 

1583
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:23,800
disappointed. 
It's not like it's not an 

1584
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:25,300
indictment on. 
I you like I do think we need to

1585
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,800
deep dig deep into our self. 
It's like, look, everyone has 

1586
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,300
their own ideas of things, as 
long as we threw our best offer 

1587
01:13:30,300 --> 01:13:33,900
out there, you know, as long as 
we have a real money offer, 

1588
01:13:33,900 --> 01:13:36,400
which I think Dawson is shown 
with football, we're going to do

1589
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,700
like he paid Alan, he didn't, we
didn't do this thing where we're

1590
01:13:39,700 --> 01:13:42,200
going to raise you about 200,000
and get like, no, we paid our 

1591
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:43,900
like, real. 
We all eat. 

1592
01:13:44,100 --> 01:13:46,600
Yes. 
So I have no doubt that Dolson 

1593
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,400
is going to offer real money to 
Stevens and then it's Ben says, 

1594
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:51,800
no, and even a couple years of, 
he goes to Duke or somewhere 

1595
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,100
else like all right, but that's 
all we can do. 

1596
01:13:54,100 --> 01:13:57,400
Like we are who we are. 
That's the money we have. 

1597
01:13:57,500 --> 01:14:00,800
And at that point, I shouldn't 
we shouldn't have ill will and 

1598
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,800
we shouldn't be unhappy with who
we get. 

1599
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,300
Because there's, as you said, 
great coaches can come from 

1600
01:14:06,300 --> 01:14:09,000
everywhere. 
And I think, you know, a couple 

1601
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,500
of years ago, none of us if we 
would have hired, you know, Brad

1602
01:14:11,500 --> 01:14:13,300
Underwood. 
We'd be like, man. 

1603
01:14:13,300 --> 01:14:15,900
That's a weird resume like, you 
know, Underwood when Archie is 

1604
01:14:15,900 --> 01:14:18,700
out there and that would have 
worked out, so who knows? 

1605
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,400
What I would say he's a better 
fit at Illinois than he is at 

1606
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:25,200
Indiana for for various reasons.
So you need to have the right 

1607
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,500
fit coach School fit is very 
important. 

1608
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,400
I think Underwood fits better 
there than he did. 

1609
01:14:29,500 --> 01:14:30,900
Congrats to him on all of his 
success. 

1610
01:14:30,900 --> 01:14:34,200
I don't want to take anything 
away K Sampson's, having a lot 

1611
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:41,500
of sex as a Houston. 
Yeah, but that was all, I don't 

1612
01:14:41,500 --> 01:14:43,200
know what comes to answer is 
doing his personal life, but 

1613
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:48,300
he's having a lot of success in 
Houston but but he's a better 

1614
01:14:48,300 --> 01:14:50,000
fit there. 
Is it Indiana, right? 

1615
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,400
So that's the thing. 
We got to get the right fit for 

1616
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,800
Indiana fair. 
And I think Jared, hey, this is 

1617
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,000
Ben. 
I love having you on. 

1618
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,900
I love kind of the Zen 
positivity, you provide. 

1619
01:15:00,300 --> 01:15:02,400
Thank you for joining us and 
again, listen to the assembly 

1620
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,900
call, they put out great stuff 
every Thursday night every post 

1621
01:15:05,900 --> 01:15:09,700
game show every firing. 
They have a show so they are on 

1622
01:15:09,700 --> 01:15:10,800
all the time. 
Great. 

1623
01:15:10,900 --> 01:15:13,100
And now after every Celtics game
and that would be right. 

1624
01:15:13,300 --> 01:15:16,800
There we go, you're it. 
Have you ever seen talking about

1625
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,300
player? 
Yeah. 

1626
01:15:18,300 --> 01:15:20,000
How quiet. 
Is reacting to the coaching, 

1627
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:24,300
it's going to be awesome. 
Celtics postgame show how's 

1628
01:15:24,300 --> 01:15:26,300
coach to signing to do it 
because he can't talk about 

1629
01:15:26,300 --> 01:15:28,600
coaches being fired. 
So he's going to be like, well, 

1630
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,200
he'll just have nothing to say. 
All right, there's more curves 

1631
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,600
and cast content coming. 
I'm sure I'm sure galen's 

1632
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,900
providing 75 other podcast this 
week so had more. 

1633
01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:40,500
This wasn't the last one. 
No there's more. 

1634
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:42,300
We got a fun one. 
Coming this afternoon. 

1635
01:15:42,900 --> 01:15:45,500
Yeah. 
So until next time, thank you 

1636
01:15:45,500 --> 01:15:47,200
all for joining. 
Thank you all for the support. 

1637
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:48,700
It's been fun. 
This has been a fun ride. 

1638
01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:51,300
I'd for Scott for Crimson, cast 
signing off.